The only two previous people we know of who pushed the button was Desmond and Calvin. Calvin died and Desmond ran off because someone shot the computer. He may not have been able to run far enough away but he was sure going to try.

I forgot about Calvin... another reference to a renowned philospher.

I don't remember discovery of a power plant or water distribution plant thus far. I do remember them finding that one place with pipes and such, but there has to be a giant generator somewhere, or solar converter type generator.


Remember the cable that Sayid found coming up out of the ocean and leading into the jungle last year when he went in search of Rousseau? There's a chance that cable has something to do with supplying power to the Darma facilities, perhaps by exploiting tidal movement to generate electricity.

I'm of the opinion that this show has been far more thoroughly plotted out for multiple seasons than many here give them credit for. I don't think these writers are flying by the seat of their pants, at least for major issues - there have been too many little things back in the first season that are showing some type of connection or resolution here in the second. I'm sure that trend will continue, and I'm happy to go along with the ride.

I rented the movie "The Island" recently. It makes you wonder if children and "good" people (meaning healthy folks for breeding and/or with marketable body parts) may be what the Others want.

By the way, I have assumed since learning about the magnetic field in the button bunker that the jet was deliberately torn in half with the pieces brought to Earth gently (a relative term) with the help of magnatism. Remember Jack's amazement that the passengers were so free of serious injury? Could John's ability to walk be somehow connected with his exposure to a huge magnetic field?

Remember the cable that Sayid found coming up out of the ocean and leading into the jungle last year when he went in search of Rousseau? There's a chance that cable has something to do with supplying power to the Darma facilities, perhaps by exploiting tidal movement to generate electricity.


I'm probably having one of those false, impregnated memories, but didn't somewhere Locke make a comment that the electricity might be geo-thermal generated?

Hmmm...when I see sci-fi/fantasy on either film or television, I tend not to analyze the technical equipment. Further, I don't think you're supposed to. The equipment serve as plot devices, facilitating the story, but are seldom the story itself. Think of how bogged down you could get trying to justify the transporter, holodeck, or project management directing the building of the Death Star (as in the analysis in Clerks). I don't think the technological capability to make or not make the transmission with timestamping was meant to be a plot clue -- that's a bit much. It was meant simply to provide a convenient link for Sayid to determine Rousseau's time on the island. Have you ever tried to logically break down the crap Jack Bauer does on 24? I mean, he dies of torture, and a few hours later triumphs in a 3-way gunfight. Some things are just meant to advance the story out of convenience.Pregnancy Test

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is for those who caught the end of the preview. Sun tells Sawyer she needs a pregnancy test. Granted, we don't know Sawyer's reply. BUT! If Sawyer comes up with one, I'm going to be very disappointed. I debated this for 10 minutes with my wife. I say, the probability of a pregnancy test being on the plane is virtually nil. First, the sample size is too small -- 75 females tops? I don't remember the initial passenger count. Then, remove older women and children, females unlikely to become pregnant. Of those remaining, in a real-world sample of that size, how many might be pregnant? THEN, of THOSE, how many might have bought one before the flight, carried it on and planned to use it after they landed? If you think you're pregnant, you're going to buy the kit and take the test ASAP, not save it for later?! If you can't take it right away, would you buy it? I mean, you're rushing to catch a plane, and the time isn't right to take the test, but you think, "you know, I better get this test now, because when I land, I'm just not going to have the time or opportunity to get one. Better safe than sorry!" I've taken the flight out of Sydney, I know it is long, but I think you'd take it before, or wait until you got to your destination. No way would there be a test on the plane.

My wife plays the "you're not a woman" card, and thinks it is likely. The only situation I might buy is if a woman bought multiple tests, and was holding the remaining ones after having used the first. *could* happen.
For someone who says they don't sweat the details, the pregnancy test thing sure seems to have gotten you fired up! :D.


ron

I forgot about Calvin... another reference to a renowned philospher.

Folks, it's spelled Kelvin. I checked the closed captioning to be sure.

The minute they connect the Others with DHARMA, they should stop pushing the button. If there were an impending catastrophe, there's no way they'd leave it up to the 815'ers with no supervision (even with discreet supervision, it is inadequate since the clock has already hit zero)

Unless they were unaware it even existed and it was a seperate experiment altogether.

I'm probably having one of those false, impregnated memories, but didn't somewhere Locke make a comment that the electricity might be geo-thermal generated?

I believe you're correct. How dare a show character have a theory?? That's our job! :D

Folks, it's spelled Kelvin. I checked the closed captioning to be sure.

He must have been a hothead then. ;)

I haven't seen anyone comment on the fact that this episode did not have any of the traditional backstory flashbacks. I don't really consider Claire's scary flashbacks the same thing. They were certainly not presented the same way.

I was thinking tonight, related to the ethics-of-science line of discussion, about a story line from Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. I came home and searched this thread to find the book was mentioned as one of the ones in the hatch when we met Desmond. Wow! But no mention of the story...

In Rainbow Six, a group of elite scientists/environmentalists have decided that mankind is destroying the earth. The only real solution is to return the earth to a more sustainable human population. So they engineer this virus and a vaccine which only they have. They also concoct a scheme, via a pharmaceutical company, to distribute the virus under the guise of presenting it as the vaccine. This insures more complete spread across the world. They abduct people at random and take them to these remote facilities that they've built. These facilities are compounds with all necessary supplies, including guns, farmland, water, positive pressure buildings, etc built in remote locations. At these facilities they infect their subjects with the killer virus and test to make sure their vaccine works but also to ensure that all other vaccines and antibiotics are not effective. They believe the ends justify the sacrifice of these subjects.

The more I write the more similar the stories sound...

I won't spoil the ending but I found it more than a little surprising that this book was in the hatch. As I recall from the film, Dharma is interested in the environment and utopian society among other things. Some, myself included, believe that the Losties have been abducted as part of an experiment. There are bunkers on the island labelled for quarantine. There's small arsenal of guns, both handguns and rifles, more than would be required for simple hunting/wild animal defense. We have stories of a sickness and some mysterious vaccinations taken by Desmond and given to Claire's baby.

Lots of parallels.
lots of <whisper>illuminati</whisper> parallels as well

I haven't seen anyone comment on the fact that this episode did not have any of the traditional backstory flashbacks. I don't really consider Claire's scary flashbacks the same thing. They were certainly not presented the same way.

Somebody mentioned it a few pages back. Not the first time in the show's 1 1/2 year history there were no "historical" character backstories; I believe the intro to the Tailies episode back in November didn't have any either.

I'm probably having one of those false, impregnated memories, but didn't somewhere Locke make a comment that the electricity might be geo-thermal generated?
Sayid suspected that there was a geothermal generator since they found lots of hot pipes when they first explored the bunker.

Remember when they were actually curious about the bunker? Now they just go in there, punch in the numbers, go through the record and book collection and fall asleep on the nice comfy bed like it's a free hotel room. Why aren't they tracing pipes and wires, drawing diagrams, picking into the walls or doing any kind of investigation that might give them a clue about what the hell kind of island this is?

Why aren't they tracing pipes and wires, drawing diagrams, picking into the walls or doing any kind of investigation that might give them a clue about what the hell kind of island this is?

Because the writers have better things for the characters to do right now? They may get curious later...

I wonder if the "losties" have received their first Utility Bill yet? ;)

If they are so concerned about pushing the button in a timely fashion, which they have been up till now, wouldn't natural curiosity overwhelm them, to find out where the Electricity and running water is coming from?

What would they do if the power went out? RUN REALLY FAST?? :D I don't remember discovery of a power plant or water distribution plant thus far. I do remember them finding that one place with pipes and such, but there has to be a giant generator somewhere, or solar converter type generator.

They also seem to be pretty casual about using the Water inside the Hatch, which could also be a good way to distribute mind effecting substances or toxins if one was inclined to do so.

Sayid inspected the power when they first explored the hatch. It was some sort of geothermal generation. Again, like with other technological developments, the writers make a reasonable effort to explain power so they can move on to more important things.

Jeff Jensen of Entertainment Weekly gives his opinion:
"Lost is an allegory for a troubling age of catastrophe and confusion, manipulation and misdirection. Lost is a mythology show about mythology shows; it dramatizes the romance of mystery and the impulse to impose order on chaos and how the two compliment and nullify each other; it shows how far we'll go to find something to believe in — and how far we'll go to not believe in anything. "

I agree with this. The focus of the show, as with many TV shows, is human interaction. Writers provide situations and personalities, then mix them up and call it drama. To whom would it appeal if they spent 30 minutes on the show discovering and delineating power generation? Did Sayid go to great lengths to discuss his understanding of electronics that enabled him to fix the transceiver? No. He says he can do it, and he does. Jack says he can doctor, and he does. Locke says he can change a lock combination, and he does. Jin can fish. Michael can build a boat. Why ask why, or how?

There are plenty of things to deconstruct, but I honestly think the technology is not where the story is. Rousseau seems to agree. She says the mechanical monster is a security device. Okay! Accepted! Sure, it is invisible, and seems to sense humans and react violenty. But everyone on the island is comfortable with the technology. It just is.

The only thing that bothers me is why no one is motivated to take the next step. What happened to the army idea? It was a "and CUT! to commercial" cliffhanger when Jack proposed it. Now? Nothing. Just a discarded idea. No one strategizes. It plagues the show. Sure, there are threats, but they still gather food, hide weapons and drugs, take walkabouts, so there's no excuse for not leaving the beach, mapping, exploring, etc. I think that ignoring the curious nature of humans is the show's biggest flaw.

Folks, it's spelled Kelvin. I checked the closed captioning to be sure.

Oh sure, where where you when someone mentioned "Said" and "Ana Marie"!?!

;)

I don't think Locke is playing Gale, I think the obvious is what is happening -- Gale has gotten to Locke.

I did not see anyone mention that Claire had that dream in season 1 (at the beginning of the episode where she was abducted) when she was pregnant, and she woke up not pregnant and you could hear a baby crying, and Claire went out walking in the jungle, and Locke was playing cards and said something to her (don't recall exactly, but something about the result of her not talking care of the baby), and Locke looked up and had one white eye and one black, and then Claire saw this crib with lots of blankets but no baby and she dug through the blankets and her hands were bloody and then she woke up and she had dug her fingernails in hands. If you recall, the mobile above the crib in her dream had little Oceanic jets, just like the crib in the Dharma nursery. But Claire's had this dream before she was abducted by Ethan.

Also, the song the mobile played someone had mentioned, was Catch a Falling Star and Put it in your pocket. It was the song Claire had asked of the adopting couple in season 1 if they knew the song and could sing it to her baby. But then the pens wouldn't write and Claire walked out on the adoption process.

That medical bunker must have JUST been abandoned, because wasn't it just a few days ago (in Island time) that Jack and company encountered Zeke and torch boys? So Zeke would have had to come back and deposit his beard/costume in the bunker. It would seem they evacuated in a hurry taking the vaccine and medical gear but leaving non-essential things like costumes behind.

Can't wait for the next few episodes. Hopefully new info like this past week will keep coming. The past and backstories are good, but moving the plot is even gooder. :)

For someone who says they don't sweat the details, the pregnancy test thing sure seems to have gotten you fired up! :D.


ron

Nice catch, heh! I was pretty clear in that I don't sweat TECHNICAL details. And that's not my natural tendency, since I'm a mechanical engineer. It is just recognition of the format -- television. Few if any sci-fi shows spend time explaining or validating their technologies for anal viewers.

I have no problem suspending a bit of reality for technology, since the format often asks this of the audience. However, discarding normal human tendencies and behavioral probabilities to further a story is lazy writing. I swear off 24 for long periods every time I finish a season for this reason.

I did not see anyone mention that Claire had that dream in season 1 at the beginning of the episode where she was abducted that she was pregnant <snip>

What do you expect when there is a 3:1 ratio between repeats and new episodes? It is very difficult to remember everything when story time moves so slow. Hell, I renovated my entire kitchen between new episodes!

And the obvious experiment:

How long can you keep a hot chick drugged enough to remove any inhibitions, yet aware enough to be active and accomodating? :)

The answer is: How long have you been married CP? :D

The answer is: How long have you been married CP? :D

20 years in November, and while she is still a "hot chick", she is not nearly as accomodating. :)

I forgot about Calvin... another reference to a renowned philospher.

Yes, but nearly as renowned a philosopher as his compatriot - Hobbs.

20 years in November, and while she is still a "hot chick", she is not nearly as accomodating. :)


Twenty years this coming September, and brother, none of them are that accomodating after 20. You're not alone.

But she lets me watch Lost with the DD5.1 soundtrack BLASTING, and doesn't ask me to "turn that damn thing down".

At least not anymore, guess she figured out I'm not so accomodating after 20 either. ;)

Hell, I renovated my entire kitchen between new episodes!

Any chance I can get the name of your contractor? ;)

Any chance I can get the name of your contractor? ;)

ME! That's the point -- it takes too long between episodes, even I can redo my kitchen! (looks great too...)

By the way, I have assumed since learning about the magnetic field in the button bunker that the jet was deliberately torn in half with the pieces brought to Earth gently (a relative term) with the help of magnatism. Remember Jack's amazement that the passengers were so free of serious injury?
There's not too much ferrous metal (iron) in an airliner; it's mostly aluminum-titanium alloys and composites (plastic), which are non-magnetic.

Sayid even made a comment about it when he was chipping away at the wall where the anomoly is. Jack came by and mentioned the magnetic field and showed that how the gun case key was attracted to it, to which Sayid said, indicating his "pry bar": "Good thing this is titanium"...


Could John's ability to walk be somehow connected with his exposure to a huge magnetic field?
If you're a subscriber to the nanotechnology theory about the black smoke, that could also be responsible for Locke's recovery.

Of course, we haven't seen the part of Locke's backstory where he gets disabled, so it may be his paralysis is psychosomatic .

~Dan

That medical bunker must have JUST been abandoned, because wasn't it just a few days ago (in Island time) that Jack and company encountered Zeke and torch boys? So Zeke would have had to come back and deposit his beard/costume in the bunker. It would seem they evacuated in a hurry taking the vaccine and medical gear but leaving non-essential things like costumes behind.
The timing could correspond to when the timer in the hatch hit zero and the heiroglyphics popped-up. The alarm for that may indeed sound in all of the bunkers, and the Others decided to get as far away from Station 3 as possible.

A hasty evacuation, however, doesn't explain why all the furniture from the nursery, and the animal plaques on the walls, were also gone. If I had to evacute immediately to the far reaches of the island, bassinets and changing tables would be the last thing I'd take...

~Dan

Yes, I was also surprised that the maternity bunker looked not so much like it was hurriedly vacated but more like it had been ransacked or looted. Makes me wonder if there's some strained relationships between more than two groups of people on the island. Perhaps there are Dharma Others and non-Dharma Others.

Also, it's obvious to me they don't have an unlimited supply of vaccine yet they consider it pretty critical so perhaps there was some kind of infighting over what they had.

Cleared - AVS posted duplicate of previous post.

I would think that the vaccine is limited in that they can only maintain a supply for so big a population - not that there's a finite supply - if there even is a vaccine.

If there is, let's say they can continually produce enought vaccine to maintain a population of 50 people indefineately. If you have 51 people, you start consuming more than you make and eventually someone will go without (problem solved, cause now they're will be only 50).

I'm just making these numbers up for my example, and I'm not saying there are 50 others.

The timing could correspond to when the timer in the hatch hit zero and the heiroglyphics popped-up. The alarm for that may indeed sound in all of the bunkers, and the Others decided to get as far away from Station 3 as possible.

A hasty evacuation, however, doesn't explain why all the furniture from the nursery, and the animal plaques on the walls, were also gone. If I had to evacute immediately to the far reaches of the island, bassinets and changing tables would be the last thing I'd take...

~Dan
It's funny, because the things that were taken and those that were left seem to contradict each other. They each depend on time and mentality:

Theory 1: The station was abandoned following Claire's escape. While this explains the rapid removal of all evidence from here abduction, it doesn't explain the more recent items like the disquises.

Theory 2: The station was cleaned out after the meating with Jack and company. In this case, it doesn't explain removing the baby stuff that Claire would undoubtably never see (there was no reason to assume she would be in any exploration group) yet leave the makeup materials used by those that met the "rescue" party. It stands to reason the people that met "Mr. Friendly" would be the most likely to discover the bunker.

So, both options contradict one another. Of course there are other options to consider. Both can allow for a clean-up following Claire's escape:

1) Though the bunker was no longer being used as a medical facility, the Others were stillusing it as a stopping off point when coming to the survivor's portion of the island. We know the island is huge - that comment was made on the raft. Therfore, it stands to reason it's being used as a rest stop when traveling to that portion of the island. This would potentially explain why the makeup materials were there. They weren't left behind. Instead, they were being stored there to avoid carrying them back and forth when needed.

2) The bunker has indeed been fully abandoned. The Others knew the survivors would ignore their warnings and find it at some point. The makeup materials were deliberately left as a warning: You don't know what we look like. We can still come for you and you won't know us when we do.

As far as the comment about everything being taken while leaving the fridge, that actually makes sense they would leave it. Most of the other stuff could be more easily carried out of there. The fridge would potentially been too cumbersome to more quickly. Perhaps they considered taking it, but after hefting it they abandoned it (hence the reason it was laying down).

Yes, I was also surprised that the maternity bunker looked not so much like it was hurriedly vacated but more like it had been ransacked or looted. Makes me wonder if there's some strained relationships between more than two groups of people on the island. Perhaps there are Dharma Others and non-Dharma Others.

Also, it's obvious to me they don't have an unlimited supply of vaccine yet they consider it pretty critical so perhaps there was some kind of infighting over what they had.

Right! There is a big market for baby room decorations, and operating tables amongst the island inhabitants. I could see warring factions haggling over these materials. Maybe they have the Internet, and Ebay accounts...?

One thing I considered regarding the Purgatory and Collective Conscious theories. When we saw Desmond waking in the hatch, exercising, eating, medicating, and playing music, those actions were real in the sense that the Lost crew wouldn't have been imagining them. In fact, until they came face to face with Desmond, they had no idea what he was doing. If they are creating their own memories, making it up as they go along, Desmond wouldn't exist until the moment they came upon him. The fact that he was active before they came upon him indicates more realistic theories, and less mystical, are likely.

What is that folk advice that the simplest solution is usually the best? I admire the fan base's desires for wild and wacky superconscious explanations, but I believe, within the Lost mythos, that there really was a plane crash, there really was Dharma, and everyone is real. The pre-flight coincidences are best described by that Synchronicity theory, fate, etc. rather than pre-meditated orchestrating. When has a TV show's imagination wildly exceeded that of its fan base?

It's funny, because the things that were taken and those that were left seem to contradict each other. They each depend on time and mentality:

Theory 1: The station was abandoned following Claire's escape. While this explains the rapid removal of all evidence from here abduction, it doesn't explain the more recent items like the disquises.

The best and easiest explanation about the disguises is that they were left for us, the audience, to see. Within the writers' storyline, that episode was the time to reveal not all is what it seems to be. Someone made a comment about Zeke's beard being more full than the stage beard. That's not really the point, is it? The point is, "hey audience! The Others are dressing up!"

It doesn't matter anyway. Kate won't tell anyone when she gets back. If she does, they won't think it is important and life will be back to normal by the next episode.

It doesn't matter anyway. Kate won't tell anyone when she gets back. If she does, they won't think it is important and life will be back to normal by the next episode.

...unless of course she decides to dress up as an Other to give a little variety to her relationship with Sawyer.... ;)

maybe just a goof, but did anyone notice that the nursery room that Claire was in while knitting the baby booty, and the abandoned room they went into later with the old rocker were different? the first room had the outer door open inwards to the right, and the abandoned room had the door open inwards to the left...

What is that folk advice that the simplest solution is usually the best?
It's called "Ockham's Razor," and is actually a principle of logic (logic, as in the branch of philosophy) rather than folk advice or an old wives' tale.

"Shave off" unnecessary explanations--Given two equally predictive theories, choose the simpler.

~Dan

maybe just a goof, but did anyone notice that the nursery room that Claire was in while knitting the baby booty, and the abandoned room they went into later with the old rocker were different? the first room had the outer door open inwards to the right, and the abandoned room had the door open inwards to the left...
They've mirrored the hatch in certain scenes, also...

~Dan

maybe just a goof, but did anyone notice that the nursery room that Claire was in while knitting the baby booty, and the abandoned room they went into later with the old rocker were different? the first room had the outer door open inwards to the right, and the abandoned room had the door open inwards to the left...
Yes, I noticed that as well, in fact argued with the person who watched it with me until I went back and showed her. It's little details like this that make it hard sometimes to really know what is important and what isn't. Sometime after the beginning of this season I stopped delving into the intricate details of what is happening in the show and just watch and enjoy it. IOW, if the producers can't keep continuity flowing I'm not going to expend a lot of effort trying to figure things out. That plus the incessant breaks between new episodes have put a strain on my enjoyment of this show. I still like it, will still watch every episode, but I'm not as invested in it as I was last year.

But the girls are so pretty :p

Well, yeah, there's that too... :D

But the girls are so pretty :p

YEAH they ARE!!! That Libby is SUH-MO-KIN!!

http://www.thesuperficial.com/archives/lost_drunk_driving.jpg

YEAH they ARE!!! That Libby is SUH-MO-KIN!!
:eek:

To be fair, nobody looks good in their mugshot.

Well, maybe Tom Delay...

~Dan

Theory 1: The station was abandoned following Claire's escape. While this explains the rapid removal of all evidence from here abduction, it doesn't explain the more recent items like the disquises.

The beard that Kate found was thin and wispy, not like "Zeke's", and as I recall she only found one. If the bunker folks were in a hurry to abandon the place after Claire left (assuming she might lead people back to it), they may have stripped the important stuff and each grabbed a hillbilly disguise for use later, but left behind one of the spares -- perhaps it was Ethan's.

The beard that Kate found was thin and wispy, not like "Zeke's", and as I recall she only found one. If the bunker folks were in a hurry to abandon the place after Claire left (assuming she might lead people back to it), they may have stripped the important stuff and each grabbed a hillbilly disguise for use later, but left behind one of the spares -- perhaps it was Ethan's.

But didn't we only see the contents of one locker of several that were in that room? Who knows what was left behind in the other lockers?

But didn't we only see the contents of one locker of several that were in that room? Who knows what was left behind in the other lockers?

That's what I said. All those lockers and Kate only opened one of them? Come on!

That's what I said. All those lockers and Kate only opened one of them? Come on!
Well, Claire did start yelling for help while Kate was looking at the stuff.

But if past prcatice holds true, not only will they not go back to the med bunker, but Kate is never going to mention anything about what she found either. This is one of the things that drives me nuts about this show, these people simply do not act normal, if the end result is that these people are really still alive then the writers need to come up with a reason why these people are the least curious and communicative people on the planet.

Another thing that is getting hard to wrap my head around, unless the amount of time they have been on the island is crucial to the story, then they need to move the timeline along faster than they have been. It's getting harder to accept that this group has only been on the island a few months.

But if past prcatice holds true, not only will they not go back to the med bunker, but Kate is never going to mention anything about what she found either.
If Kate hadn't been present at the confrontation with the Others, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But, I think in this case, she will mention it to either Jack or Saywer (who were also at the "meeting"), which is were the note-comparing will end.

~Dan

Look, its weeks before the next new show, let's get back to talking about the Babes!

Okay, I thought Libby looked very, very nice in this last episode, the best she's looked since we met her.

Yeah the lanky, almost school teacher chick, who will throw you down and,... well, I gotta go.

But if past prcatice holds true, not only will they not go back to the med bunker, but Kate is never going to mention anything about what she found either. This is one of the things that drives me nuts about this show, these people simply do not act normal, if the end result is that these people are really still alive then the writers need to come up with a reason why these people are the least curious and communicative people on the planet.


I also find this a bit frustrating. They are stuck on a mysterious and dangerous island and likely have to cooperate to survive. Yet they never seem to discuss the island at all.

Without some sort of information sharing on things like this you would think the entire human race would have been dinosaur/bear food ages ago.

Just once I'd like to see a bunch of them around the camp fire asking "Hey, I wonder what that silly computer really does. And what's up with that black smoke stuff?".

- Tom

Just once I'd like to see a bunch of them around the camp fire asking "Hey, I wonder what that silly computer really does. And what's up with that black smoke stuff?".

- Tom

Worst Episode Ever :mad: When are they gonna get back to the Polar Bear, and have a War with lots of Machetes! Now trhat's what should be happening if these writers weren't lazy puss arses! Screw these lame wussy backstories, and talk fests. WORST EPISODES EVER!!! I might just perhaps quit watching if I can't pay my cable bill, next month.


:p ;) :) :rolleyes: :D

I still like it, will still watch every episode, but I'm not as invested in it as I was last year.I'm actually more into it this season than last, but am only giving it one more season before I pull the plug. BSG has more successive eps in spite of a mid-season break.

Remember the cable that Sayid found coming up out of the ocean and leading into the jungle last year when he went in search of Rousseau? There's a chance that cable has something to do with supplying power to the Darma facilities...

FIOS? Figures. Everybody gets the new stuff before it comes to my neighborhood.

Just once I'd like to see a bunch of them around the camp fire asking "Hey, I wonder what that silly computer really does. And what's up with that black smoke stuff?".

- Tom
Nah, the writers leave all the discussion up to us. :p

A hasty evacuation, however, doesn't explain why all the furniture from the nursery, and the animal plaques on the walls, were also gone. If I had to evacute immediately to the far reaches of the island, bassinets and changing tables would be the last thing I'd take...

~Dan

If the outline of the missing plaques in the nursury were clearly visable, it means that they had been up for a very long time, not just set up for Claire.

There's not too much ferrous metal (iron) in an airliner; it's mostly aluminum-titanium alloys and composites (plastic), which are non-magnetic.

Sayid even made a comment about it when he was chipping away at the wall where the anomoly is. Jack came by and mentioned the magnetic field and showed that how the gun case key was attracted to it, to which Sayid said, indicating his "pry bar": "Good thing this is titanium"...



If you're a subscriber to the nanotechnology theory about the black smoke, that could also be responsible for Locke's recovery.

Of course, we haven't seen the part of Locke's backstory where he gets disabled, so it may be his paralysis is psychosomatic .

~Dan

Of course we should not assume the magnatism on the island is exactly the same as we know it. Perhaps magnatism is being used as a vehicle or means of conducting some other force, or is a byproduct of that other force. It still a certainty to me that the plane was deliberately brought down by something on the island.

Although not part of this last episode, didn't the security system take down a few trees right near the beach camp in the first or second episode? Has it come anywhere close to the beach since?

I also find this a bit frustrating. They are stuck on a mysterious and dangerous island and likely have to cooperate to survive. Yet they never seem to discuss the island at all.

Without some sort of information sharing on things like this you would think the entire human race would have been dinosaur/bear food ages ago.

Just once I'd like to see a bunch of them around the camp fire asking "Hey, I wonder what that silly computer really does. And what's up with that black smoke stuff?".

- Tom


I agree this type of unrealistic behavior is the achillies heel of the show. The example that I can't get over is when they finally make contact with another group - Zeke and his torch buddies - you would have expected some obvious questions such as:
Who are you?
How long have you been here?
Um, what the heck is going on with this crazy island?

I'll still hang on every episode, but how about the writers throw us a bone of rational discussion once in awhile?

I agree this type of unrealistic behavior is the achillies heel of the show. The example that I can't get over is when they finally make contact with another group - Zeke and his torch buddies - you would have expected some obvious questions such as:
Who are you?
How long have you been here?
Um, what the heck is going on with this crazy island?

I'll still hang on every episode, but how about the writers throw us a bone of rational discussion once in awhile?I agree 100% When they first set this scene up, I was thinking finally we would get some answers. And we got nothing. Jack, Locke, Sawyer didn't ask a dang thing. The characters aren't that dumb (or at least I didn't think so). That was the most blatant example of feeling like we're just being yanked around by the writers/creators.

I've continued to watch this season, but I'm not going to be strung along forever. Dumbing down the character's actions as a tool for drawing out the plot will not cut it with me. I want actual suspense and mystery, not cheaply-constructed substitutes.

Scott

Using your example, Keller, even if Zeke didn't answer the questions, it would have been more realistic/normal for Jack et al to have at least attempted to ask. The writers could have certainly worked that in.

And re: the lockers; the writers were sloppy in my mind in not giving a "reason" for not checking the other lockers. And these writers are the best in the business. How are these 'little' things somehow overlooked?

And re: the lockers, the writers were sloppy in my mind in not giving a "reason" for not checking the other lockers. And these writers are the best in the business. How are these 'little' things somehow overlooked?
Well, Claire yelled to Kate for help, but I agree, they should have returned to look at them. And if I were Kate, I would have taken the beard back to camp with me, assuming she didn't.

I also find this a bit frustrating. They are stuck on a mysterious and dangerous island and likely have to cooperate to survive. Yet they never seem to discuss the island at all.

Without some sort of information sharing on things like this you would think the entire human race would have been dinosaur/bear food ages ago.

Just once I'd like to see a bunch of them around the camp fire asking "Hey, I wonder what that silly computer really does. And what's up with that black smoke stuff?".

- Tom
Sometimes after watching an episode of Lost, I feel like Locke, "we need to watch that again", not because it's great TV, but because surely I missed something, that couldn't be all of it. I can envision myself with future episodes screaming at the TV, "ask some questions, you stupid people". I agree with others who posted about this that the writers really need to give us something, something that connects these people to how folks are in real life. It is just too easy to feel cheated with this show when you see 45mins of it and nothing really makes any sense, there's no resolutions and no questions asked. It's somewhat abusive to the viewer, you have to wonder sometimes if the writers think, "these viewers will watch anything we throw up there", well, for me, it's starting to get a little stale.

hmm!?

It's saving grace is that is still among the very best at delivering stunning HD images, in this HD image starved world.

Nothing like Earl's HD Easter Eggs, though.

Sometimes after watching an episode of Lost, I feel like Locke, "we need to watch that again", not because it's great TV, but because surely I missed something, that couldn't be all of it. I can envision myself with future episodes screaming at the TV, "ask some questions, you stupid people". I agree with others who posted about this that the writers really need to give us something, something that connects these people to how folks are in real life. It is just too easy to feel cheated with this show when you see 45mins of it and nothing really makes any sense, there's no resolutions and no questions asked. It's somewhat abusive to the viewer, you have to wonder sometimes if the writers think, "these viewers will watch anything we throw up there", well, for me, it's starting to get a little stale.
Sometimes I think I must be watching a different show from other people. Are we talking about the same "LOST"? By comparison, almost every other show out there makes me feel cheated. As has been said many times in this thread, if you're looking for resolution by the time the hour is up, then this isn't the show for you. Watch "Law & Order" instead...

Well, Claire yelled to Kate for help, but I agree, they should have returned to look at them. And if I were Kate, I would have taken the beard back to camp with me, assuming she didn't.

Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Example: we didn't seen any scenes of the whole group of losties being told about the hatch, but we did see the party that Hurley threw with the food.

It does seem they don't exchange a lot of information in front of us, but I'd be surprised if in a future episode Jack or Locke didn't react as though they knew that the Others=Dharma.

Sometimes I think I must be watching a different show from other people. Are we talking about the same "LOST"? By comparison, almost every other show out there makes me feel cheated. As has been said many times in this thread, if you're looking for resolution by the time the hour is up, then this isn't the show for you. Watch "Law & Order" instead...
I'm not saying there is better TV out there, (actually there is, Battlestar Galactica), what I'm saying is that it could be even better. I guess my problem with Lost is that there are too many breaks in the schedule, the people on this island simply do not act like people, and there just doesn't seem to be enough forward movement in the story. I get that this show is primarily a character study as opposed to an adventure thriller, but the characters themselves, in most cases, do not act like anything resembling "normal" people. It is often tough to get invested with these characters as they rarely seem to act like people we are familiar with, the people with interact with every day. Think about, of all the folks that have posted in this thread do you think there is even one that would not have asked at least one question that has never been asked by a character in this show..? It's hard to relate to people who do not act like people do.

I still like the show, and will still watch it, but the burden on the writers to keep me interested in it gets larger and larger as the episodes go on.

hmm!?

It's saving grace is that is still among the very best at delivering stunning HD images, in this HD image starved world.

Nothing like Earl's HD Easter Eggs, though.
Absolutely, definitely some of the best eye and ear candy on TV.

Sometimes I think I must be watching a different show from other people. Are we talking about the same "LOST"? By comparison, almost every other show out there makes me feel cheated. As has been said many times in this thread, if you're looking for resolution by the time the hour is up, then this isn't the show for you. Watch "Law & Order" instead...Well, I'm not expecting full resolution of all of the mysteries at the end of each episode, but I'd like to see some advancement of the overall plot and the uncovering of the truth, whatever it may be. Too many of this season's episodes have given us nothing, other than tiny scraps, compared to what they were willing to feed us last season.

Adding to the cheated feeling, another example from this season is when they hyped up the countdown clock hitting zero in the preview, and then giving us . . . zip - just some hieroglyphics and mechanical sounds. To me, that was just cheap. I don't know if the creators are to blame, or just the promotions and marketing people, but they just about lost me as a viewer after that episode (no pun intended).

Scott

Earl's HD Easter Eggs?

BTW, I'm not asking that all the questions be resolved. That would likely ruin that show. But some of those questions should at least be plausibly asked and discussed by those on the island, even if they don't provide the answers.

I agree much of this is a character study through the back stories, and I even rather like that approach. But all the time spent in the back stories makes it seem all the characters are just sitting there on the beach dwelling on past history and unfinished business.

Even for the most neurotic group it seems that some would be asking probably the oldest and most relevant of mankinds philosophical questions: "What's happening, and what do we do now?".

- Tom

Adding to the cheated feeling, another example from this season is when they hyped up the countdown clock hitting zero in the preview, and then giving us . . . zip - just some hieroglyphics and mechanical sounds. To me, that was just cheap. I don't know if the creators are to blame, or just the promotions and marketing people, but they just about lost me as a viewer after that episode (no pun intended).


Simple solution to this: don't watch the previews. I realize this can be difficult, especially if you watch other shows on ABC. I don't know if you have a DVR, but this makes it a lot easier. But I've heard others make the same complaint about the clock hitting zero sequence who had seen the previews. Since I don't watch the previews I had no idea, and I think the scene worked a lot better for me, just because I was surprised the clock hit zero. The heiroglyphs seemed pretty spooky to me as a result. I thought that whole sequence was outstanding. But if I knew the clock would hit zero because of the previews, I'm sure my reaction would have been different. Maybe not a negative one, but different. Previews are not designed to enhance your enjoyment of a show or movie. The only consideration is promotional, and it's pretty clear that marketing people have no qualms about detracting from the viewers enjoyment of a show or movie in the name of marketing it.

Earl's HD Easter Eggs?

Here ya go:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=639890

I don't think that thread has all of them, but you can find most on HDBeat as well.

Here ya go:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=639890

I don't think that thread has all of them, but you can find most on HDBeat as well.

Thanks - Pretty cool!

What's the only difference between Charlie and Claire?

Charlie has H.

What's the only difference between Charlie and Claire?

Charlie has H.

Neat!! I like it, pretty clever.

Simple solution to this: don't watch the previews. I realize this can be difficult, especially if you watch other shows on ABC. . .

. . . Previews are not designed to enhance your enjoyment of a show or movie. The only consideration is promotional, and it's pretty clear that marketing people have no qualms about detracting from the viewers enjoyment of a show or movie in the name of marketing it.Well, not watching previews is an option, but I don't remember it being a problem at all last season. So, one has to wonder if the promoters are more desperate to mislead viewers this year because there just isn't as much real substance to offer viewers.

In the past I haven't skipped the preview because it lets me know if the upcoming episode will be new and the tantalizing bits offered will build my anticipation for what's coming, giving me a chance to speculate what will happen next.

Scott

> And re: the lockers, the writers were sloppy in my mind in not giving a
> "reason" for not checking the other lockers.

Well, Claire yelled to Kate for help, but I agree, they should have returned to look at them. And if I were Kate, I would have taken the beard back to camp with me, assuming she didn't.
This is the one thing that irks me about the show.

These people are the exact opposite of the characters from every horror movie ever made--you know, the ones we all scream at to not go snooping around where the killer/ghost/demon is hiding.

The characters on Lost have absolutely no curiosity, no desire to learn about where they are and what the heck is going on...

~Dan

http://www.comics.com/comics/monty/archive/images/monty22442470060306.gif

So why the fake beard and costumes?

The only two previous people we know of who pushed the button was Desmond and Calvin. Calvin died and Desmond ran off because someone shot the computer. He may not have been able to run far enough away but he was sure going to try.

We never actually see Desmond push the button.

So why the fake beard and costumes?

Well duh, so they don't get recongnized. :rolleyes:

:p

We never actually see Desmond push the button.

Stop it.

We never actually see Desmond push the button.
Umm, yes we did...

In the first minute of the season 2 premier, when he wakes up to the alarm sounding, rolls his chair over to the computer, types something in, and presses the EXECUTE key.

~Dan

So, what's going to happen to Walt?

I mean, the actor that portrays Walt should be growing and changing at the age he is now. That should be a really big change when he comes back (if he ever comes back) to the show. How are they going to explain that? It will only be a couple of months in the story but 2 years or something like that for the actor. He should look really older.

Will they explain that as a Dharma experiment? :p

So, what's going to happen to Walt?

I mean, the actor that portrays Walt should be growing and changing at the age he is now. That should be a really big change when he comes back (if he ever comes back) to the show. How are they going to explain that? It will only be a couple of months in the story but 2 years or something like that for the actor. He should look really older.

Will they explain that as a Dharma experiment? :p

I think that's the reason why they took Walt out of the scene.. and Michael too, since he was getting on everyone's nerves.. :D

I don't think Locke is being manipulated by Gale. I think it's the other way around.

Something I noticed that nobody has mentioned is that when Gale mentioned Hemingway to Locke, Locke said "You have good ears." To which Gale replied "You have thin walls." That meant that he was able to hear Locke and Jack talking outside of the armory. As deductive as Locke has proven to be, I find it hard to believe that he didn't consider that Gale would therefore certainly hear him "trash" the room. I believe that Lock did that on purpose knowing he would hear it and think he got into Locke's head. This will make it easier for Locke to gain his confidence later. Locke has been strictly logical and not emotional throughout the entire show thus far. The tirade seemed out of character for him unless it was a calculated move with an ulterior motive. That would also fit in with the fact that Locke was being rather nice to Gale.

Something else that I wondered about was Gale's comment, "you have thin walls." I don't know much about armories or safes, but don't they usually have thick strong walls? Aren't they usually made of thick concrete and steel? I can't imagine that someone would be able to hear simple talking through that. Seems suspicious to me.

actually sound travels though dense materials better than through air so the thickness of the walls means nothing but rather what they are made off. A half inch wall made of styrofoam probably is harder to hear through than a 3 inch steel plate. Remember tonto alawys placing his ear on the train tracks to hear it coming miles away?

(off the top of my head sound moves through marble 6 times better than air or something like that)

Maybe they've already filmed some future scenes with Walt.

Mark

So, what's going to happen to Walt?

I mean, the actor that portrays Walt should be growing and changing at the age he is now. That should be a really big change when he comes back (if he ever comes back) to the show. How are they going to explain that? It will only be a couple of months in the story but 2 years or something like that for the actor. He should look really older.

Will they explain that as a Dharma experiment? :p

You mean like the time Locke beat the crap out of Charlie? :)

Mark

...Locke has been strictly logical and not emotional throughout the entire show thus far. The tirade seemed out of character for him unless it was a calculated move with an ulterior motive. ..

One thing that seemed strange to me from the show: Was it not a complete roll reversal between Jack and Locke in regards to Gale. Last week Jack was fighting Locke and Sayid to treat Gale humanely. This week Jack was adament about keeping him locked up and staying cautious while Locke seemed to be friendly to him. Maybe Locke was playing Gale like the last poster said, but what was with the change in Jack? It was almost like the writers heard what people were saying on here about not liking Jack and his whiney personality. He seemed to get back to the tough leader persona that he has had before.

I kind of felt like the costumes were left behind deliberately. If the Dharma folks were getting out of that facility and taking items of importance with them, they likey would have taken the costumes as well. They aren't that hard to move compared to alot of the items that were removed. It would be reasonable to think that they would be needed again. I say the only reason those costumes were there is that the Dharma folks want the Losties to find them. One earlier poster suggested that is was done as a warning. I think that the Dharma people are aware of what the Losties are doing, are thinking several steps ahead of them, and have a purpose for everything related to Dharma that the Losties find out about.

...or they may have been in such a rush that it got left behind by accident. Sort of like:

Noah: Where are the dinosaurs?
Mrs. Noah: I though YOU loaded them.

So why the fake beard and costumes?

This isn't such a bad question. I think you are wondering what difference does it make if our guys see them with long hair or short hair, a jacket vs. a sweater, etc. What I keyed in on is the contrast between the person with and without the costume. Without the costume, the wearer is clean, clean-shaven, and freshly dressed. With the costume, the wearer is weathered, ratty, survivalist. One bears the mark of civilization, facilities, and health care. The other says "we're like you, only living in another region." Wearing a costume hides the evidence of supplies and comfort items -- the very things a less-equipped tribe might compete for. In essence, costuming is a ploy to diminish the likelihood of retaliation by taking away every incentive but revenge.

So, what's going to happen to Walt? :p

You mean "Waaaaaaaaalt, Waaaaaaalt"?

So, we've all touched on, and complained about, the lack of advancement in the story. No one has really debated why though, so let me get that going.

There are many factors at play affecting the pace and direction of storytelling. First, we all have our own ideas about where it is going, and what the show's purpose is in the first place. We're all wanting Lost to be story-driven. However, the writers may feel completely character-driven. The story may not be a priority at all, so instead we see all these personality clashes, backstories, power struggles, and inner conflicts. It may not be going the way WE want it to, but you'd have to assume it is going exactly at the pace and in the direction the writers want it to.

Second, let's think of Lost from a project management point of view. All of the audio and video equipment has to be transported and set up all over the island, where each scene is being shot. The soundtrack is perhaps one of the best on TV, ever. Sets are expensive when they're constructed with the given materials we see, such as the bunkers. We can't marginalize the impact of filming in Hawaii, especially when it isn't on Oahu (is it?). So, costs, weather, logistics -- all must be difficult to manage so maybe we don't get the intensity that we want.

What would be the advantage of allowing what we perceive as flaws in the storytelling to persist? Can we easily dismiss the group of writers simply by saying their talent is lacking? I mean, why is the story being told at this pace? Maybe they want it to be of the highest quality, and are being very particular about development? We must assume that the pace and methods are absolutely deliberate.

One idea that I have always thought is ridiculous is that "the writers MUST be reading THIS list!" That is impractical and egomaniacal. I mean, how many LOST discussion groups are there? Of course the show is 'Net aware, as evidenced by the podcasts and sponsored websites. However, it takes a long time to sift thru fan sites and forums, and for what -- so the writers can lift ideas? Or so they can stroke our egos by writing by request? "Where does the fanbase want to see this show go? We better get on that issue!" I seriously doubt there is such a lack of direction, and desparation for stability that only we can offer.

I don't think Locke is being manipulated by Gale. I think it's the other way around.

Locke has been strictly logical and not emotional throughout the entire show thus far. The tirade seemed out of character for him unless it was a calculated move with an ulterior motive. That would also fit in with the fact that Locke was being rather nice to Gale.I disagree. Do you not remember any of his flashbacks? Every one showed him to be a volatile and/or irrational person in his "pre-Lost" life. He also got irrationally angry when Jack saved him from the "security system." And, you can't convince me that the whole "gotta push the button" thing is logical.

Locke tries to project a logical, sane persona, but I think he's a nut job. Don't forget he was pretty much useless as a hunter/woodsman/survivalist until he met the "monster." What did it do to his mind, I wonder?

Henry Gale is definitely working Locke, and I'm betting the results are evident in the next new episode.

So, we've all touched on, and complained about, the lack of advancement in the story.

...

We're all wanting Lost to be story-driven.

...

It may not be going the way WE want it to, but you'd have to assume it is going exactly at the pace and in the direction the writers want it to.What do you mean "we all?" I'm not in that camp, and I bet there are plenty of people who are digging on this method of exposition. I wouldn't change a thing so far. Well, not much anyway.

I seriously doubt there is such a lack of direction, and desparation for stability that only we can offer.Now that, I can agree with! :D

So, we've all touched on, and complained about, the lack of advancement in the story. No one has really debated why though, so let me get that going.
Not all of us. ;)

Some of us have seen quite a bit of advancement in the story, and enjoy having things pieced together and slowly connected...forcing us to go back and remember things that happened previously and re-evaluate. Some of us don't need a "major reveleation" in every episode, or for their to be closure each week.

What do you mean "we all?" I'm not in that camp, and I bet there are plenty of people who are digging on this method of exposition. I wouldn't change a thing so far. Well, not much anyway.
Same here. (We were posting at the same time...)

Make a good politician though, Claim the majority, whether you have it or not. ;)

We (or should I say the generic you) have an awful lot of faith in the writers. Personally I have seen many stories where things are illogical just because of sloppiness.

Perhaps they took everything out of the bunker except the costumes and one booty as part of a master plan, or maybe, just maybe, the writers just thunk that up on the spot because those items fit their story line better.

It makes no sense to me. They conveniently left the refrigerator too. Why would they leave that but take great care to completely clean out the nursery?

Has any one touched on, How the Hell do you move out of your jungle hide-a-way. Porters carrying cribs and medical supplies on their heads silently in the middle of the night?
Helicopters are pretty loud, and would be noticed from miles away.
Giant Bonfire, that's why the metal objects were still there, or just perhaps, several large hot air balloons!?

...or they may have been in such a rush that it got left behind by accident. Sort of like:

Noah: Where are the dinosaurs?
Mrs. Noah: I though YOU loaded them.

LOL. I like the dialog!

I just don't think the Dharma folks would make a mistake like that. I am in the camp that believes that pretty much everything the Losties are finding is meant to be found by the Dharma folks. Of course they did show weakness when Ethan and Beardy(less) were having the discussion about how things didn't work out exactly as planned with Ethan's covert op. Still, they seem to be in control pretty well.

LOL. I like the dialog!

I just don't think the Dharma folks would make a mistake like that. I am in the camp that believes that pretty much everything the Losties are finding is meant to be found by the Dharma folks. Of course they did show weakness when Ethan and Beardy(less) were having the discussion about how things didn't work out exactly as planned with Ethan's covert op. Still, they seem to be in control pretty well.

With one exception: Alex. Rouseau's daughter is the wild card presented to us last week that says to me that Dharma can be had. She precipitated Ethan's demise. That is we think he's demised (I'm in the "I saw him breathing in the grave" camp). :D

I think the story is moving along just fine. This is no X-Files or Twin Peaks. Those stories would go no where for years, at least in the X-Files case. The non-mythological shows were the best of the X-Files, IMO. I see a 50/50 split in opinions as to how fast the show is moving. I think this proves the writers are doing a fine job. :)

Chuck

Make a good politician though, Claim the majority, whether you have it or not. ;)Clearly he was basing the statements on the electoral college results. We have a mandate! :)

IIRC, there was a fair amount of waning interest and grousing about this time last year during the repeat ep's. It all seemed to mostly go away after a string of new ep though.


ron

It makes no sense to me. They conveniently left the refrigerator too. Why would they leave that but take great care to completely clean out the nursery?

Well, think about the dramatic moment when they rush to the fridge, Claire can't pick it up and needs help, then BAM! It's up...and...empty! Damn, where is the medicine?! The fridge was present in the room for the sole purpose of that drama play. Nothing more, or less. A writer sees a scene differently than a fan.

What do you mean "we all?" I'm not in that camp, and I bet there are plenty of people who are digging on this method of exposition. I wouldn't change a thing so far. Well, not much anyway.



You're ALL a bunch of semantic little knaves, aren't you? I was addressing the ones who're singled out by my commentary, ie the ones who are story driven. If you're not story driven, nor dissatisfied with the pacing, then I wasn't talking to you, was I? How tedious to have to compartmentalize every sub group in order to address only the precise readers intended. Haaaa-rummph!!

If you're not talking to me, then I'm not listening to you.. What a bunch of drivel....

Perhaps he was writing in the vernacular; Ya'll come with we'all!

Wow, it's a long way until the next episode. Should be fun in here until then, huh?

I was reading in a newspaper in Mexico, in spanish, that Damon Lindelof was talking about the Stanford Prison Experiment as something that has some influence to the Lost story. If you check in Wikipedia about that, you'll see some interesting information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

Also, he said that he knows the end of the story. They, he and the rest of the writers/producers know how they'll end the story, is just the part in between that they are working on. They are done with season 2, and they are now working in that to do in season 3. With that I mean writing the story.

You're ALL a bunch of semantic little knaves, aren't you? I was addressing the ones who're singled out by my commentary, ie the ones who are story driven. If you're not story driven, nor dissatisfied with the pacing, then I wasn't talking to you, was I? How tedious to have to compartmentalize every sub group in order to address only the precise readers intended. Haaaa-rummph!!

So, we've all touched on, and complained about, the lack of advancement in the story. No one has really debated why though, so let me get that going.

Oh, yeah, that's clear.

You were having a private conversation on a public message board with ALL the voices inside your head.

Makes perfect sense, now.

Haaaa-rummph!!
You should have that looked at. Might be something serious.

tick tock tick tock tick tock how many weeks?

What is up with all the reruns I think ABC has just LOST another viewer

As to those who want more answers, I think we should keep in mind that in an HD forum, it's natural that some people are only focused on resolution.

Has any one touched on, How the Hell do you move out of your jungle hide-a-way. Porters carrying cribs and medical supplies on their heads silently in the middle of the night?
Helicopters are pretty loud, and would be noticed from miles away.
Giant Bonfire, that's why the metal objects were still there, or just perhaps, several large hot air balloons!?

And why trash the surgical room before you leave, knocking over the fridge units?

Also, wonder where the "Escape Hatch", the small half high door in the main hallways, went to? Since right next to it was the tunnel that led to the main stairs. Where else could an "Escape Hatch" go to? And why didn't Claire or Kate try opening that door?

So why the fake beard and costumes?

Does that mean why use them or why were they left behind?

I've seen this question a few times and if the question is why use the disguises, the answer seems obvious.

There's a huge difference between the Losties thinking they are dealing with a mysterious, unknown band of stranded savages as opposed to thinking they are being observed/experiemented on by a bunch of idealistic scientists who are showering and shaving and eating hot food and watching the Wizard of Oz while viewing them on CCTV.

In the first case, they'd likely be scared enough to do what they're told because you don't know what the Others are capable of, as has been said. And besides the short-range boat, the Losties have no reason to think the Others are any better off than they are in terms of transport/communication off the island.

In the second case, I think most of us would doing everything we could to disrupt the experiement if we were the unwilling subjects. In addition, knowledge that the Others are actually Dharma and almost certainly have communication, resupply, and transport off the island would likely lead to all-out subversion/armed conflict to attain access to those resources.

txmatt - nice theory, but quinocampa said exactly the same thing yesterday on the preceding page. For the record, I think you're both right.

The find of the costumes and seeing the operating room where they were going to take Claire's baby was very eye-opening. It definitely confirms that the Dharma experiment is still ongoing and the Others aren't simply a rag-tag group of abandoned scientists. So now instead of just wondering what's the deal with the ISLAND, now we have to be concerned about the scientists and their goals as well.

I hope they'll at least answer one of those questions before this season is over.

Also, wonder where the "Escape Hatch", the small half high door in the main hallways, went to?
I forgot about the escape hatch!
Has anybody suggested that leaving the beard, is just part of the experiment.
"Now let's see what they do if they think that they are being manipulated"
Everything is part of the experiment!

Has anybody suggested that leaving the beard, is just part of the experiment. "Now let's see what they do if they think that they are being manipulated" Everything is part of the experiment!

That is exactly what I think. I kind of said that yesterday, but my thoughts never get expressed in typed form exactly how I think them (I guess I'll never be a writer). :rolleyes:

Has any one touched on, How the Hell do you move out of your jungle hide-a-way. Porters carrying cribs and medical supplies on their heads silently in the middle of the night?
Helicopters are pretty loud, and would be noticed from miles away.
Giant Bonfire, that's why the metal objects were still there, or just perhaps, several large hot air balloons!?


Yes, I brought this up a few pages ago. Just the logistics of moving everything through a jungle, (supposedly) without mechanical help and without leaving tracks, seems extremely difficult. Maybe in the case of the medical bunker it was possible, but what about the washer/dryer in the Losties bunker, for example?

Maybe, as some have mentioned, it's a character driven show and these details will never be explained. I still like the theory that all the bunkers are connected somehow. Maybe the "escape hatch" that was in the middle of the hallway in the medical bunker led somewhere interesting...

Maybe the "escape hatch" that was in the middle of the hallway in the medical bunker led somewhere interesting...

Or maybe that was a piece of painted cardboard that a props guy happened to glue to the wall. :D Just kidding!!! Some may believe that more than they believe that it was a significant detail that adds to the plot or will be visited at some future point in the show. With most shows I would be part of the insignificance crowd, but it just seems like so many little details flow with the ride the writers are taking us on that I don't want to discount anything we are provided in the chance that it might be important or become important later. "The devil is in the details" seems to apply to Lost.

Exactly, this writing staff has knocked my socks off before by tying things together, I'm counting on them to continue doing it the future!

You're ALL a bunch of semantic little knaves, aren't you? I was addressing the ones who're singled out by my commentary, ie the ones who are story driven. If you're not story driven, nor dissatisfied with the pacing, then I wasn't talking to you, was I? How tedious to have to compartmentalize every sub group in order to address only the precise readers intended. Haaaa-rummph!!That's life on the WWW. Unless specifically stated otherwise, everything is taken at face value. Also, if you're going to go highbrow with phrases like "semantic little knaves" you probably should refrain from using "the ones" as well. Kinda blows the image a little you know? :D.


ron

Isn't semantics a huge part of what writing is all about?

That's life on the WWW. Unless specifically stated otherwise, everything is taken at face value. Also, if you're going to go highbrow with phrases like "semantic little knaves" you probably should refrain from using "the ones" as well. Kinda blows the image a little you know? :D.


ron


I'm having trouble believing that this guy is from Indiana. I didn't know anyone here talked like that. We don't regularly use words with slient letters at the beginning.

http://www.comics.com/comics/monty/archive/images/monty20122123060307.gif

That's life on the WWW. Unless specifically stated otherwise, everything is taken at face value. Also, if you're going to go highbrow with phrases like "semantic little knaves" you probably should refrain from using "the ones" as well. Kinda blows the image a little you know? :D.


ron

Heh! You Forumies crack me up! Stay tuned, next week I'll be offering you sour canteen water and trying to take your babies. I meant to say "you'uns".

Okay, yes, Claire remembered seeing doctors, and the medical bunker was outfitted. Ethan appeared to be a legitimate doc, as well as having superhuman strength. I don't see how this is an absolute indication that the experiment is still on! Whatever that means. All we know is that "The Others" have a committment to abducting children. According to Zeke, they want to be left alone, remain anonymous, and they don't want our guys messing where they shouldn't. There is little other evidence that there is *any* kind of experiment they're conducting on our survivors. I'm not saying there is or isn't, just that the evidence thus far is thin.

Oh! Sorry for the big words. Here is a key:
legitimate = real
experiment = test
abducting = taking
anonymous = unknown

I betcha one of these days we are going to see a back story about Dharma. We'll find out why the medical station was in a state of disarray (Certainly, Ethan getting killed has to be the main reason.) and about all the other little points that fans discuss on here. The name of the episode will be "For the truly freaky fans". I'll be watching. :p

I would also like to suggest that listening to the official Lost podcast should be a requirement before posting on here. The producers mock the fan base in a fun way. They give little away but do clear up many of the questions that arise on a regular basis on this thread. I don't think any of the following points are spoilers but if a moderator disagrees please feel free to modify.

From the lastest podcast:

1. Much more will be known about the others and reasons they are on the island by the end of the season. (Obviously, it is already happening. The podcast was prior to the latest new episode.)

2. The reason for the plane "going down" will be known by the end of this season!

3. After this set of reruns new episodes will air for the rest of the season. So all those feigning being "out" on Lost because of all the reruns can jump back on the bandwagon they never are really jumping off of. How funny it is to see people take the time log on and compose a message announcing to the whole world they are going to watch a TV show anymore. Freedom of speech is cool.

Chuck (Local knave)

3. After this set of reruns new episodes will air for the rest of the season. So all those feigning being "out" on Lost because of all the reruns can jump back on the bandwagon they never are really jumping off of. How funny it is to see people take the time log on and compose a message announcing to the whole world they are going to watch a TV show anymore. Freedom of speech is cool.

Chuck (Local knave)

I am going to watch the rest of the new episodes this season. I am not going to watch any of the reruns (or their associated ads).

Heck, I guess that didn't seem very funny after all. But if enough of us try it then I guess it may be a good message to the sponsors. ;)

- Tom

I am going to watch the rest of the new episodes this season. I am not going to watch any of the reruns (or their associated ads).

Heck, I guess that didn't seem very funny after all. But if enough of us try it then I guess it may be a good message to the sponsors. ;)

- Tom

Yeah, and let's all boycott buying gas on Tuesdays too! (please get 10 of your friends to join this list, and spread the word).

I would also like to suggest that listening to the official Lost podcast should be a requirement before posting on here. The producers mock the fan base in a fun way. They give little away but do clear up many of the questions that arise on a regular basis on this thread. I don't think any of the following points are spoilers but if a moderator disagrees please feel free to modify.

Chuck (Local knave)

Did they answer that time honored question about whether the humidity plays havoc with the makeup? Man! I'll bet it REALLY does!

I am going to watch the rest of the new episodes this season. I am not going to watch any of the reruns (or their associated ads).

Heck, I guess that didn't seem very funny after all. But if enough of us try it then I guess it may be a good message to the sponsors. ;)

- Tom

You mean to say those who already watched the episode watch it again when it is re-run ?? :eek: Oh, may be the DVR-disenfranchised folks do!! ;) We DVR folks watch the show skipping the ads, and rewatch it immediately afterward in slow-mo. No need to watch the reruns !! Time to catch up on other recordings from the week. !! :D

...I would also like to suggest that listening to the official Lost podcast should be a requirement before posting on here...

So you've been here for 4 months and you want to make the rules for the thread?

Okay, yes, Claire remembered seeing doctors, and the medical bunker was outfitted. Ethan appeared to be a legitimate doc, as well as having superhuman strength. I don't see how this is an absolute indication that the experiment is still on! Whatever that means. All we know is that "The Others" have a committment to abducting children. According to Zeke, they want to be left alone, remain anonymous, and they don't want our guys messing where they shouldn't. There is little other evidence that there is *any* kind of experiment they're conducting on our survivors. I'm not saying there is or isn't, just that the evidence thus far is thin.

Oh! Sorry for the big words. Here is a key:
legitimate = real
experiment = test
abducting = taking
anonymous = unknown

Quinocampa, thanks for using smaller words this time. It saved me an hour of looking words up in my dictionary. And I also appreciate the stegathesaurus for the bigger words.

You've got to be a move-in from out of state.

So when is the next new episode?

So you've been here for 4 months and you want to make the rules for the thread?

Must be some of that new math or you are trapped in some strange time warp.

Anyway, I was just pointing out the producers/writers on the podcast clear up a lot of little things. I formally withdraw my suggestion of a forced march listening to the podcast. I don't know what came over me. I guess, I forgot I was still on my 1 year AVS probation since I registered. ;)

Quino you should email them about the makeup/humidity thing. That is right up their alley.

Theory on the medical hatch being abandoned. Claire escaped and subsequently the "Others" landed Walt. Didn't need it anymore. Claire escaped a long time ago, so I am not sure they had to actually hurry. They only returned to the hatch to deliver the warning to Jack and his group. Since the hatch was nearby the dumped their stuff there.

Must be some of that new math or you are trapped in some strange time warp.

Going back over your posts it looks like your first one here on this thread was on 11/18/05. New math?

PS. I did check out the 'podcast' and it was interesting, so thanks for making me aware of it.

Does that mean why use them or why were they left behind?

I've seen this question a few times and if the question is why use the disguises, the answer seems obvious.

There's a huge difference between the Losties thinking they are dealing with a mysterious, unknown band of stranded savages as opposed to thinking they are being observed/experiemented on by a bunch of idealistic scientists who are showering and shaving and eating hot food and watching the Wizard of Oz while viewing them on CCTV.

In the first case, they'd likely be scared enough to do what they're told because you don't know what the Others are capable of, as has been said. And besides the short-range boat, the Losties have no reason to think the Others are any better off than they are in terms of transport/communication off the island.

In the second case, I think most of us would doing everything we could to disrupt the experiement if we were the unwilling subjects. In addition, knowledge that the Others are actually Dharma and almost certainly have communication, resupply, and transport off the island would likely lead to all-out subversion/armed conflict to attain access to those resources.


only problem is the second case is not a bunch of 'normal' scientists watching. They are scientists willing to KILL people. So either way there is reason to be "scared enough to do what they're told". I mean does it really matter if the guy trying to kill you is a hermit or a phd? either way he's trying to kill you. The phd might even be scarier...

it's funny these suggestions that things are just there becasue (the prop guy tossing up the escape sign made me laugh).

I am a hillbilly knife or whatever you would call me ;-)

But I'm one of the people that always wondered if maybe the dude that wrote moby dick wasn't being symbolic at all. Maybe the guy was trying to make a buck by selling books and he thought it was a good story? Call me crazy! :-)

I quickly learned in high school never to share my wonderment in class. Instead it was always best to make up the wildest stupidist theory I could. Half the time the teacher thought i was one of them genuiseses. The other half the crazy old bat thought I was wrong but gave me bonus points for trying so hard.

I wonder if 100 years from now people will be reading all these crazy theories into every scene in Star Wars....

So the same week ABC is doing a rerun for Lost, 24 has two new episodes and a regular character is killed off.

And it's not even sweeps.

When is that fatass Hurley going to bite it? :D

I wonder if 100 years from now people will be reading all these crazy theories into every scene in Star Wars....

Not enough pages about rendering blubber!

When is that fatass Hurley going to bite it? :D

I thought everybody loved Hurley! Seriously, I think it's great to see an actor once in awhile who doesn't look like a model/mannequin. Most here also like him in the role he plays as well as his character's sense of humor and wouldn't want to see him go. Trust me on this.

Going back over your posts it looks like your first one here on this thread was on 11/18/05. New math?

PS. I did check out the 'podcast' and it was interesting, so thanks for making me aware of it.

Ah, I was wondering where you came up with 4 months. My join date right below my screen says June 2005. I tend to be a lurker, so you won't find me posting much...("lurker", geez, that sounds bad). :)

I'm glad you liked the podcast. For some reason I have no problem imagining Kate smoking a cigar. :)

Chuck

Theory on the medical hatch being abandoned. Claire escaped and subsequently the "Others" landed Walt. Didn't need it anymore. Claire escaped a long time ago, so I am not sure they had to actually hurry. They only returned to the hatch to deliver the warning to Jack and his group. Since the hatch was nearby the dumped their stuff there.

The show is going to go in one of two directions -- highly-imagined sci-fi, or pragmatic and grounded in reality. I tend to believe the show will try to maintain elements of the fantastic, such as the black mist and the invisible security system (are they the same thing?), but largely remain grounded. I think it would be very difficult to maintain credibility with explanations that are overly bizarre. You'uns have mocked soap operas for years for their evil twin/alien abduction plots, and the only "it was all a dream" story that played well was when Bob Newhart woke up with his wife and realized the New England lodge never happened.

"it was all a dream" story that played well was when Bob Newhart woke up with his wife and realized the New England lodge never happened.

...great episode by the way...

or in the case of Lost:

Matthew Fox wakes up and he is Charlie Salinger in a bad Party of Five episode
or
Naveen Andrews wakes up after being attacked by Mighty Joe Young
or
Dominic Monaghan wakes up after being knocked out by the Orcs and isn't so Merry
or
Terry O'Quinn wakes up after being knocked out by Sloane and realizes he is still F.B.I. Asst. Director Kendall
or
Harold Perrineau wakes up and realizes he still has a Link to the Matrix
or...oh, forget it. I just wish tonight's episode wasn't a repeat.

...great episode by the way...

or in the case of Lost:

Matthew Fox wakes up and he is Charlie Salinger in a bad Party of Five episode
or
Naveen Andrews wakes up after being attacked by Mighty Joe Young
or
Dominic Monaghan wakes up after being knocked out by the Orcs and isn't so Merry
or
Terry O'Quinn wakes up after being knocked out by Sloane and realizes he is still F.B.I. Asst. Director Kendall
or
Harold Perrineau wakes up and realizes he still has a Link to the Matrix
or...oh, forget it. I just wish tonight's episode wasn't a repeat.

Cynthia Watros wakes up and realizes she's still dating Titus.

I wake up and find that I'm Dominic Monaghan, dating Evangeline Lilly.

Naveen Andrews wakes from his coma-induced dream caused by an explosion while attempting to disarm a mine during the English Patient...

Looking at the repeat of first season's Kate's backstory, it seems harder to think this was all a Dharma controlled/coordinated experiment..

Kate buries the small plane (Oceanic flight replica) with her childhood love while they were still teens, as their unique memory. She then comes back many years later to her ex and digs up the plane to reminisce about their past. Now this plane gets magically put in a bank locker number 815.. :rolleyes:

Add to this, Hurley's poweball gets rigged with the magic numbers to make him a millionaire over night, but he gets plagued by bad luck like his mother getting her foot crushed, Hurley's factory gets burnt down etc. So, is Dharma manipulating fate to this scale??

Doesn't quite seem to add up !! :confused: :rolleyes:

Looking at this repeat episode, it made me feel how great the first season was with all the mystery and character exploration !! In comparison this season seems to be a copout so far.

I went ahead and watched tonight because I didn't have hi-def the first time this episode ran. Although it was only a small thing, Sayid and Jack were dismayed that the tide was coming faster than normal, and more violently. Jack blamed it on the island, and they all moved to higher ground. And when I say "they all", I mean the "ones" living on the beach, not the "ones" whom had absconded to the cave. Sooo...the island controls the tides, apparently. What's really strange about that is...sea water isn't magnetic...creepy, no?

Can someone recap for me Locke's encounter with the black mist or security system? Someone implied that he acquired his adroitness for reconnaissance and foraging following that rendezvous. According to the knave, Locke and Ecko have both prevailed. I seem to have misplaced that episode.

Minor complaints about the dialogue that annoy me way more than they ought to:


They continue to call the bunker/lab/shelter "the hatch," even though they now know the nature and extent of the underground structure and spend loads of time inside it. The hatch is only one of at least two known means of entry and egress to that structure, and as far as we can tell, they always use the other door to come and go.
The frequent references to "pushing the button," when what they really mean is the series of keystrokes required to enter an ordered sequence of numbers and the Execute key. It would be just as simple (and much more accurate) to say, "enter the numbers," would it not?

Looking at the repeat of first season's Kate's backstory, it seems harder to think this was all a Dharma controlled/coordinated experiment..

Kate buries the small plane (Oceanic flight replica) with her childhood love while they were still teens, as their unique memory. She then comes back many years later to her ex and digs up the plane to reminisce about their past. Now this plane gets magically put in a bank locker number 815.. :rolleyes:

Add to this, Hurley's poweball gets rigged with the magic numbers to make him a millionaire over night, but he gets plagued by bad luck like his mother getting her foot crushed, Hurley's factory gets burnt down etc. So, is Dharma manipulating fate to this scale??
.

Call it kismet, or for the more earnest viewers, Moira. Nothing more.

Minor complaints about the dialogue that annoy me way more than they ought to:

The frequent references to "pushing the button," when what they really mean is the series of keystrokes required to enter an ordered sequence of numbers and the Execute key. It would be just as simple (and much more accurate) to say, "enter the numbers," would it not?[/list]

I wonder if there is some clever castaway that can write a keyboard macro, so they really do only have to push one button. What is that OS anyway? It is probably VM/370. Man, that would really blow me away! Lost hackers! Hey, Michael was a hack, maybe that's why the Dharmagians filched him? And yes, I spelled filch correctly, knaves! Perhaps the Dharmacks can't get their system to reboot, and they need an admin? You know, with the bubble having burst and all...Whoa!

Wow! A fresh, new episode tonight.... :mad:

Wow! A fresh, new episode tonight.... :mad:

they should write it into Evanegline contract that she must appear in a black bikini every episode....viewership would increase so much

they should write it into Evanegline contract that she must appear in a black bikini every episode....viewership would increase so much

Or take it to Cinemax or Showtime and make it LOST Gone Wild.

My wife hasn't seen the first season so we have been watching a couple episodes a night. Just finished third to last episode, with Exodus 1 & 2 remaining. It's amazing how much I am picking up watching this again.

Just caught the end of Leno tonight after watching Lost Season 1 on DVD. Michelle R. was on. I've never been in the camp to put her down, but yikes, it was a weird interview. She seemed nervous -- couldn't maintain eye contact and was always looking down. She looks more "butch" in real life than on LOST! On Lost they actually make her to appear somewhat femine, at least compared to the way she came off on Leno.

So when is the next new episode?


It's........ L O S T !!!!!

Minor complaints about the dialogue that annoy me way more than they ought to:


They continue to call the bunker/lab/shelter "the hatch," even though they now know the nature and extent of the underground structure and spend loads of time inside it. The hatch is only one of at least two known means of entry and egress to that structure, and as far as we can tell, they always use the other door to come and go.
The frequent references to "pushing the button," when what they really mean is the series of keystrokes required to enter an ordered sequence of numbers and the Execute key. It would be just as simple (and much more accurate) to say, "enter the numbers," would it not?

Perhaps none of these characters are as obsessed with semantics as you are.

I think we all assume the "black smoke" is downloading from those it seeks. Perhaps it is uploading. False memory planting makes all the coincidences easy to explain. :)

... Hey, Michael was a hack, maybe that's why the Dharmagians filched him? And yes, I spelled filch correctly, knaves! Perhaps the Dharmacks can't get their system to reboot, and they need an admin? You know, with the bubble having burst and all...Whoa!

Michael was a construction worker, IIRC, far from work that would give him hacker credentials. From where did you *filch* that tidbit?

Michael was a construction worker, IIRC, far from work that would give him hacker credentials.

He was an engineer, which is quite a bit different from a "construction worker", but you're right that he still doesn't have hacker creditials. Perhaps Quinocampa was making a joke about Harold Perrineau's role in the Matrix movies?

I guess I'm not playing with a full deck... although we didn't watch the first season initially, I thought we caught most/all of the reruns last summer: apparently not as we hadn't seen last night's.

Kate looks good in swimming attire. But...

I had been thinking Kate was mostly good and was somehow justified in killing her father. Not after last night's episode. She and Sawyer are meant for each other: neither can seemingly be trusted.

I'll be going back and watching all of Season 1 this summer. One of the Lost podcasts is going to put up a watch schedule for the first 2 seasons, like 2 or 3 episodes a week, and then have a podcast discussing those episodes and how things tie together.

I thought michael was an artist that took construction jobs to pay the bills?

I went ahead and watched tonight because I didn't have hi-def the first time this episode ran. Although it was only a small thing, Sayid and Jack were dismayed that the tide was coming faster than normal, and more violently. Jack blamed it on the island, and they all moved to higher ground. And when I say "they all", I mean the "ones" living on the beach, not the "ones" whom had absconded to the cave. Sooo...the island controls the tides, apparently. What's really strange about that is...sea water isn't magnetic...creepy, no?

That was a real phenomenon that occured in Hawaii at the time they were filming. It forced them to move locations, so they wrote it into the story.

That was a real phenomenon that occured in Hawaii at the time they were filming. It forced them to move locations, so they wrote it into the story.
I either read or perhaps watched on the DVD extras that they wrote in the "high tide" to get rid of the plane hull wreckage so as not to have to keep filming with that big of a set.

He was an engineer, which is quite a bit different from a "construction worker"
No, in "The Moth," he said he was a Contractor...

~Dan

Just read "Prey" on vacation, now I can't imagine the black smoke as anything else. :eek:

I think we all assume the "black smoke" is downloading from those it seeks. Perhaps it is uploading. False memory planting makes all the coincidences easy to explain. :)We all? Didn't we just go over this? :D Personally, I tend to think it's a bi-directional process. Based on the images shown (seen) when it confronted Eko, it would appear that information is being retrieved, but Locke (and I believe Eko as well although I don't recall anything specific yet to prove it) indicated he perceived something from his encounter with the smoke. What exactly that was has yet to be determined, but at this point I don't think it was false memory implantation though. Possibly a bit of hypnosis or some sort of brainwashing to implant information/ideas/thoughts maybe? Anyway, I think the stuff that has been shown in flashbacks has been real. I also don't subscribe to the theory that they all came together on the flight due to prior Dharma tinkering either.


ron

Just read "Prey" on vacation, now I can't imagine the black smoke as anything else. :eek:

Agreed. It fits as a "scientific" explanation and could be a source of the "infection".

Just read "Prey" on vacation, now I can't imagine the black smoke as anything else. :eek:

Welcome to our little world. :cool:

Just read "Prey" on vacation, now I can't imagine the black smoke as anything else. :eek:

It's funny how that works, isn't it.....

I've thought nanobots since early on, but the visual - compared to the book - is unmistakable.

He was an engineer, which is quite a bit different from a "construction worker", but you're right that he still doesn't have hacker creditials. Perhaps Quinocampa was making a joke about Harold Perrineau's role in the Matrix movies?

Hmmm...The orientation film told them not to type anything else on the screen but the numbers and <EXECUTE>. When Michael first contacted whom he believed was Walt, hadn't he been futzing with the computer hardware? I mean, he was shocked to see the words from Walt, but he had been at the keyboard trying to be clandestine -- hacking around. That's the memory I have, but it could be faulty. Certainly, I was sincere.

We all? Didn't we just go over this? :D Personally, I tend to think it's a bi-directional process. Based on the images shown (seen) when it confronted Eko, it would appear that information is being retrieved, but Locke (and I believe Eko as well although I don't recall anything specific yet to prove it) indicated he perceived something from his encounter with the smoke.

ron

Again, does anyone care to refresh my memory about the encounter Locke had with the smoke, I can't seem to recall it at all.

I was adulterous today, reading some LOST stuff on other sites. Actually, I was looking for podcast transcripts. Anyway, someone had zoomed in on the graphic on Ethan's canteen, the one from which he'd shared the sour water with Claire. It was a Dharma symbol, the familiar polygon. The insignia in the middle apparently matched the tattoo on the shark, briefly spied when the raft was attacked. What does it mean? Nothing in particular. I wondered how many would say it was proof that Ethan was Dharma. I discounted that, because if Ethan came to the island independent of Dharma, the canteen could easily have been a remnant supply. What I thought was cool was simply seeing another symbol.

It was a cheap thrill, my little infidelity. I found the other lists to be more stimulating after lying down with this forum for weeks now.

You cad. You're all alike. First you share all your cool little opinions with me, then it's off to do a little theoretical speculaten' with the cyber-floozy next door. A thread with all this experience, you'd think it would matter. I've been around a bit, ya' know?! Jerk.

Again, does anyone care to refresh my memory about the encounter Locke had with the smoke, I can't seem to recall it at all.
Purely from memory (and therefore perhaps incorrect), he basically stood his ground as the 'security system' knocked down trees and made its way towards him. This was mid-first season, so of course we did not see the smoke, and what they showed us was Locke's reaction from the perspective of the smoke, so it was a high camera shot looking down at Locke. He did not speak, but his facial expression was almost blissful. I read later (or it might have been in the S1 DVD extras) that his director's instructions for his reaction shot was to 'imagine the most beautiful thing you've ever seen'.

I might be all wet on this recollection, if I am, I'm sure the correction will be swift and mighty! :)

Purely from memory (and therefore perhaps incorrect), he basically stood his ground as the 'security system' knocked down trees and made its way towards him. This was mid-first season, so of course we did not see the smoke, and what they showed us was Locke's reaction from the perspective of the smoke, so it was a high camera shot looking down at Locke. He did not speak, but his facial expression was almost blissful. I read later (or it might have been in the S1 DVD extras) that his director's instructions for his reaction shot was to 'imagine the most beautiful thing you've ever seen'.

I might be all wet on this recollection, if I am, I'm sure the correction will be swift and mighty! :)

That's about the way I remember it also. It seemed that from that point on, he had the "island connection", and the "island wanted this" and the "island wanted that" (like a Boone sacrifice).

Here's what I think is happening (I have not read any spoiler threads or fan fiction):

I think the black smoke is actually "nanobots gone wild". May be the nanobots "were" one of the "Dharma experiments", which has gone awry in the "incident". May be the nanobots have developed their own mind, a lot like the robot army from "I, Robot". The "sickness" that "the Others" refer to might be some sort of manipulation that the "black smoke" does on its victims, making them behave all crazy.

May be the countdown timer controls a mechanism designed to channel the "geo-magnetic energy" of the island into a protective barrier around the bunkers or Dharma-inhabited areas against the "black smoke" beast. May be "pushing the button" or the act of entering the sequence of numbers every 108 minutes recharges the "magnetic shield" thereby keeping the "black smoke" away.

When the timer hit zero a couple of weeks back, the heiroglyphics displayed on the clock with some symbols in black and some symbols in red indicated the status of each "Dharma Station". If the symbol of a particular bunker appears red, then it might be that that station has been breached or is at risk without any shields. The stations with the symbol colored black might be safe with its shields still strong enough.

http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x14-oneofthem/6/oneofthem-cap597.jpg

The mechanical sounds we heard might be some sort of escape hatches opening or some "blast doors" closing to seal the bunkers and protect the inmates from attacks by the "black smoke".

Even after the timer expired, if you enter the numbers and hit execute anyway, th shields get recharged/redeployed, but they would be without the shields until the sequence is entered. I think that was what happened when Locke entered the numbers late, and the countdown reset to 108 minutes. May be 108 minutes is the minimum time the shields can hold at maximum strength before they need recharging/redeploying with enough buffer time to keep the shields at all targeted areas up without any interruption.

May be when the countdown hit zero, it triggered alarms in the medical bunker, and it might have forced the Dharma crew to drop the ball, pickup whatever they can carry and retreat deeper into the bunker system through the escape hatch. That might explain why they took the medical supplies and the stuff in the baby-room, but left the disguises in the lockers. May be they have a pregnant woman or a newly born infant in the Dharma group so that they took the crib and toys and stuff from the baby room.

May be once Locke entered the numbers anyway, and it was clear that the bunkers were not compromised, the Dharma folks might come out.

May be I figured out what's happening.. :D Let's see.

Raaj, FYI "maybe" is one word, not two.

Raaj, FYI "maybe" is one word, not two.

Point noted. It's weird it came out that way. I guess I was too busy channeling the thoughts into words before I lost the train of thought. I wish there was a "search and global replace" option.. :D

Edit:

I just saw your custom title, and boy you ARE cranky !! :p

juskiddin'.

May be the countdown timer controls a mechanism designed to channel the "geo-magnetic energy" of the island into a protective barrier around the bunkers or Dharma-inhabited areas against the "black smoke" beast. May be "pushing the button" or the act of entering the sequence of numbers every 108 minutes recharges the "magnetic shield" thereby keeping the "black smoke" away.

A good theory.

But, if Dharma could build a shield against the "black smoke," you'd think they could throw a $10 automatic timer into the design, rather than relying on humans to press the button every 108 minutes...

~Dan

Interesting that some of you think Dharma, who it's pretty obvious from the film were working on this project back in the 70's or 80's, are working with nanobot technology, but at the same time still use other 70's or 80's technology, like the old computer in the hatch (with it's first gen green monochrome screen) and the analogue countdown timer.

I also find it interesting that they would be able to implant thoughts but not have the ability to make the countdown re-activate on it's own. "Lets just hope that people will come to take over for the next guy".


I think the REAL Dharma experiment is what is happening in these forums!

Interesting that some of you think Dharma, who it's pretty obvious from the film were working on this project back in the 70's or 80's, are working with nanobot technology, but at the same time still use other 70's or 80's technology, like the old computer in the hatch (with it's first gen green monochrome screen) and the analogue countdown timer.
Well, the U.S. Air Force has bombers (B-52) that have some state-of-the-art equipment in them, yet the planes are 50 years old...


I think the REAL Dharma experiment is what is happening in these forums!
With this I don't disagree!

~Dan

A good theory.

But, if Dharma could build a shield against the "black smoke," you'd think they could throw a $10 automatic timer into the design, rather than relying on humans to press the button every 108 minutes...

~Dan

Yup, that is one of the holes in my theory.

There are a couple more - like "if it is so critical, why can't the Blue-Beard posse push the button themselves rather than letting the Losties do it? (One reason might be that Desmond's original mate might have been the Dharma-authorized operator before he somehow got sick and croaked. But, Dharma might know that the Losties have been dutifully pushing the button without posing too many problems, so maybe they let them slide.)

But I guess the writers will come up with something to show that the manual operation of the controls was necessary - for the sake of keeping up the drama and theatrics. Otherwise we wouldn't have had all the mystery and drama surrounding the "push the damn button without knowing what it does" line of story.

Re: Nanobots.

Are they going to use them in the story? How many people is going to understand that. I'm not talking people from the forums who are in the most part geeks. I'm talking the general people. I don't know, I think nanobots may be something too complex for the general population to understand.

What do you think?

They can be understood. Just show the early prototypes in a lab the size of a housefly and show all their capabilities. Then unveil the research notes that describe the 5th, 6th, 7th, etc. generations that got progressively smaller to the point that the current bots cannot be seen with the naked eye.

Whose to say that what Locke experienced with the counter hitting zero isn't the first time that's happened. What if the reason the plane broke up was that Desmond fell asleep at the wheel, the mechanism started up, generating a massive magnetic pull, which grabbed flight 815 out of the sky? The human element behing the button could perhaps keep the project/experiment supplied with fresh bodies.

Whose to say that what Locke experienced with the counter hitting zero isn't the first time that's happened. What if the reason the plane broke up was that Desmond fell asleep at the wheel, the mechanism started up, generating a massive magnetic pull, which grabbed flight 815 out of the sky? The human element behing the button could perhaps keep the project/experiment supplied with fresh bodies.

No, I don't think so. We've seen that the downing of Flight 815 was not random, nor was its passenger manifest. There seems to be some deliberate action throughout all of this.

Whose to say that what Locke experienced with the counter hitting zero isn't the first time that's happened. What if the reason the plane broke up was that Desmond fell asleep at the wheel, the mechanism started up, generating a massive magnetic pull, which grabbed flight 815 out of the sky? The human element behing the button could perhaps keep the project/experiment supplied with fresh bodies.Too hard to explain all the people connections (e.g., Jack & Desmond) with the 815 crash being an accident.

Tim

Whose to say that what Locke experienced with the counter hitting zero isn't the first time that's happened. What if the reason the plane broke up was that Desmond fell asleep at the wheel, the mechanism started up, generating a massive magnetic pull, which grabbed flight 815 out of the sky? The human element behing the button could perhaps keep the project/experiment supplied with fresh bodies.

Is an airplane made of the right metal(s) to be affected by a large magnet?

Is an airplane made of the right metal(s) to be affected by a large magnet?

Not really. Aluminum, mostly.

Not really. Aluminum, mostly.

If I recall my Chemistry and Physics correctly, all materials are affected by magnetism. But aluminum has a very low coefficent of magnetism or whatever it is called.

Theoretically, given a strong enough magnetic field, you could affect the flow of electricity through the planes electronics. Or affect the functioning of various non-aluminum parts.

If I recall my Chemistry and Physics correctly, all materials are affected by magnetism. But aluminum has a very low coefficent of magnetism or whatever it is called.

Theoretically, given a strong enough magnetic field, you could affect the flow of electricity through the planes electronics. Or affect the functioning of various non-aluminum parts.


I know that we are all talking theoretically here, but how strong would the magnetic field have to be to be stronger than the thousands of pounds of force that the jet engines were producing? If there was a magnetic field strong enough to affect the flight of a passenger plane, I think that it would have had some more more serious affects on the other metal objects.

Dharma may have brought the plane down through other means (sabotage, etc), but they didn't do it with a magnetic field.

Raaj, FYI "maybe" is one word, not two.

Except as a shortened form of "(it) may be (that)"...

Depends on how you say it!

Except as a shortened form of "(it) may be (that)"...

Depends on how you say it!

I am absolutely floored by this exchange. You...have...GOT...to be KIDDING!!

(hopefully, you're having a bit of fun...)

Too hard to explain all the people connections (e.g., Jack & Desmond) with the 815 crash being an accident.

Tim

How can you possibly expect the writers to satisfy some fans' needs for the crossing paths to be purposeful and deliberate?! Talk about a vast right-wing conspiracy! This is one of the nuttier expectations I have come across. I mean, the events that brought any of the characters to a particular spot were completely determined by them. Sayid on a US military truck with Kate's stepdad. Sawyer walking thru a police station with cuffs on while Shannon and/or her brother is sitting talking to another officer. There was the one where Hugo was on the TV in the home of the guy who Jin beat up. These cannot POSSIBLY be meaningful, manipulated events! Hell, nearly every instance, as far as I can tell, went unnoticed by all parties involved! Can you imagine the exchange?
[Dharma] "Okay, these guys don't know each other, right? And neither of them is looking this way, right? Okay, just because we can, let's intercept them after they've completed some activity, then draw them together to within shouting distance, and make it utterly subtle so that they don't even know each other is there! It'll be SO COOL!!"
The idea is insane! It is cosmic coincidence, easter eggs for the viewers and the viewers alone. It means nothing!!!

Quino - it would be good for you to lighten up and recognize that this show has numerous breaks from reality. As far-fetched as it may seem to a realist, I highly doubt that the crash of 815 will be seen as simply an accident as the "fantasy" continues to unfold.

Tim

Quino - it would be good for you to lighten up and recognize that this show has numerous breaks from reality. As far-fetched as it may seem to a realist, I highly doubt that the crash of 815 will be seen as simply an accident as the "fantasy" continues to unfold.

Tim

I agree that there may be something more than accident regarding the plane. That's not really what we're talking about though, is it? We're talking about all of these Dharma people knowingly manipulating the lives of all the survivors, or better yet, the featured stars of the show (which number fewer than the total survivors) LONG BEFORE they contemplate a plane ride. We're talking about Dharma forcing their life paths to cross in meaningless ways, gathering them all onto a plane, then crashing that plane, allowing only the ones they've selected for the grand experiment to survive; then killing, abducting, or allowing to be killed some of those same people whose journeys they painstakingly coordinated.

Take one person alone, Jack. To be on that plane, his dad had to become dissatisfied with his life, depart to Sydney, and kill himself. Then Jack had to be coerced by his mother to go get his father. Then, the airline clerk had to pretend to reject the transport of the corpse in order to, what?, make Jack all the more committed about being on the flight? All of this, Dharma orchestrated in order to get him on that plane so that they could crash him and experiment with him. Riiiiiight....

I can go thru a similar exercise for every one of the main characters. The bottom line is though, for any of these false memory and coordinated fate theories to be true, you just about have to throw out the entire unfolding drama with a "Ha! None of it was real!" climax. And tell me, given a clever explanation, you'd be happy with that?

I agree that there may be something more than accident regarding the plane. That's not really what we're talking about though, is it? We're talking about all of these Dharma people knowingly manipulating the lives of all the survivors, or better yet, the featured stars of the show (which number fewer than the total survivors) LONG BEFORE they contemplate a plane ride. We're talking about Dharma forcing their life paths to cross in meaningless ways, gathering them all onto a plane, then crashing that plane, allowing only the ones they've selected for the grand experiment to survive; then killing, abducting, or allowing to be killed some of those same people whose journeys they painstakingly coordinated.Well, apparently that's what you are talking about. Don't know if anybody else was. :confused:

...We're talking about all of these Dharma people knowingly manipulating the lives of all the survivors, or better yet, the featured stars of the show (which number fewer than the total survivors) LONG BEFORE they contemplate a plane ride. We're talking about Dharma forcing their life paths to cross in meaningless ways, gathering them all onto a plane, then crashing that plane, allowing only the ones they've selected for the grand experiment to survive; then killing, abducting, or allowing to be killed some of those same people whose journeys they painstakingly coordinated...My focus wasn't on that concept at all. I'm guessing you're the one who's bugged by it enough to be talking through it.
...The bottom line is though, for any of these false memory and coordinated fate theories to be true, you just about have to throw out the entire unfolding drama with a "Ha! None of it was real!" climax. And tell me, given a clever explanation, you'd be happy with that?Back when I was tweaked about the sloppiness of Shannon's "gunshot" wound, I might've cared more. Now I just say "Why not?". It's the writers' story, not mine. They can have it resolve however they want.

Tim

Well, apparently that's what you are talking about. Don't know if anybody else was. :confused:

Just to go back over the last week...

Archiguy #13701:
We've seen that the downing of Flight 815 was not random, nor was its passenger manifest. There seems to be some deliberate action throughout all of this.

Tluxon #13702:
Too hard to explain all the people connections (e.g., Jack & Desmond) with the 815 crash being an accident.

TeeJay1952 #13671:
I think we all assume the "black smoke" is downloading from those it seeks. Perhaps it is uploading. False memory planting makes all the coincidences easy to explain.

My problem with this discussion is someone states an outlandish theory, and all of a sudden people are talking about it as if it's an accepted fact.

I for one will stop watching the show if it sinks into cartoon territory!

Re: Nanobots.

Are they going to use them in the story? How many people is going to understand that. I'm not talking people from the forums who are in the most part geeks. I'm talking the general people. I don't know, I think nanobots may be something too complex for the general population to understand.

Star Trek had storylines about nanobots. Viewers will understand if the show takes just a few seconds to explain it. You've got to figure that the concept will need to be explained to some of the characters on the show who don't "get" it.

Hurley: "Dude, what're you talking about? What's a nanomobot? Is it edible?"

My wife decided to watch Bride & Prejudice last night. Kind of shocking to see Sayid in a musical. Man, that torturer sure can dance!

That's one of those Bollywood movies.. with Aishwarya Rai...? Never seen one..any good?

Oh, yeesh, beery, beery gud, thank you! :o

Star Trek had storylines about nanobots. Viewers will understand if the show takes just a few seconds to explain it. You've got to figure that the concept will need to be explained to some of the characters on the show who don't "get" it.

Perhaps the writers need to show Locke down in the hatch, sitting at the computer with his feet up on the desk, reading Prey...

~Dan

That's one of those Bollywood movies.. with Aishwarya Rai...? Never seen one..any good?

It's a Bollywood movie crossed with Jane Austen. I didn't watch much of it.

Oh, yeesh, beery, beery gud, thank you! :o

Cool! Now we've reduced things to racial stereotyping! Why didn't you throw in a Slurpee or cab driving reference in there too?

Well, we all know when a jokes a joke around here (the embarassed smilie should have been a tip), and dialect humor is not racism, so chill the frak out!

The thing about the black mist is, it does have to be explained somehow. What do we know absolutely about it?

1. It is organized.
2. It makes decisions -- movement, considers those it encounters.
3. It moves very quickly.
4. It has either been merciful (Ecko) or is non-violent.
5. It is curious. It got right up into Ecko's face.

If it is sci-fi, then it was either created or discovered. If it was discovered, then it evolved naturally and "lives". It could be mystical/spiritual as well. Either way, its purpose has not yet been revealed.

There is little evidence it is also the security system. The security system has a completely different set of characteristics:
1. Mechanical. This is obvious by the sounds it makes while moving.
2. Stealthy. It can hide well in the jungle. It could even be invisible when it wants to be. (agreed, common to the mist)
3. Tall. Locke looked upward to it, and it pulled the jet pilot upward, leaving him in the tree.
4. Violent. It destroys vegetation when it moves, and kills when it hunts.
5. Roaming. (agreed, common to the mist)
6. Less intelligent, less forgiving.
7. "Security system" is only Rousseau's opinion. There is no evidence it can discern between a threat and non-threat, friend or foe. Killing system is more accurate.

Who was it that got caught and was being dragged through the jungle? Wasn't it a chain or cable that was dragging the victim? The eventual destination was down into a hole / cave, but the victim (Sayid?) was rescued (by Locke?).

I cannot remember a time the two were present simultaneously, or when either set of distinct characteristics were mixed. I think they're two different entities on the island. The do both appear to avoid the beach.

Well, we all know when a jokes a joke around here (the embarassed smilie should have been a tip), and dialect humor is not racism, so chill the frak out!

Yeah, not sure where "racial stereotyping" comes into play. Indian, or any other accent is pretty much an obvious observation. I would think only the more shallow minded would expect Indian movies to be cast using only American accents or Indians who speak "proper" American.

Yeah, not sure where "racial stereotyping" comes into play. Indian, or any other accent is pretty much an obvious observation. I would think only the more shallow minded would expect Indian movies to be cast using only American accents or Indians who speak "proper" American.

So there's only one language in India, eh? Only one accent? Only one dialect? A billion people and they all talk like the guy on The Simpsons? Or could you be referring to the stereotypical Pakistani accent? Do you even know? Sample a few dozen Bollywood movies, and tell me how many of the actors utter the phrase you typed, with the inflections you placed. Or perhaps you can make a few Indian friends in your community, or within your profession. Then, jokingly, try that little impression on them, and remind them that we all know it is only a joke.

And a smiley face makes stereotyping acceptable?

thank you.
Last year, when Locke was being pulled into the hole, and was saved by Jack and Kate, the smoke appeared and made what seemed to be a face.

I have Indian friends, and Mexican friends, and Australian friends, and let's see, African American friends, and I tease them about dialects and accents often, and they tease back. So get over it, you are not the arbiter of your taste is good taste around here, no matter how much you believe you speak for "we all"

And I'm done with that!

So there's only one language in India, eh? Only one accent? Only one dialect? A billion people and they all talk like the guy on The Simpsons? Or could you be referring to the stereotypical Pakistani accent? Do you even know? Sample a few dozen Bollywood movies, and tell me how many of the actors utter the phrase you typed, with the inflections you placed. Or perhaps you can make a few Indian friends in your community, or within your profession. Then, jokingly, try that little impression on them, and remind them that we all know it is only a joke.

And a smiley face makes stereotyping acceptable?

Lighten up. Many people that don't live in America have accents when speaking English. Even many people in America have accents, especially where I live.

I suppose saying that most engineers own a calculator is a stereotype? And because it is, that observation should be kept to yourself? Same with most Swedish being blond and owning a cell phone?

Ignoring our differences is far more damaging and shallow.

Lighten up. Many people that don't live in America have accents when speaking English. Even many people in America have accents, especially where I live.

I suppose saying that most engineers own a calculator is a stereotype? And because it is, that observation should be kept to yourself? Same with most Swedish being blond and owning a cell phone?

Ignoring our differences is far more damaging and shallow.

I thought all Swedes formed death metal bands...?

I suppose saying that most engineers own a calculator is a stereotype?

Actually, being a life long (and probably genetically predisposed) computer nerd I can tell you that making fun of nerds, geeks, and engineers seems to be the only politically correct group that is still only fair game for some reason.

If it wasn't for Bill Gates we'd get no respect at all. And even with his success everybody still makes fun of him.

However nerds in general seem to be underrepresented on Lost with the possible exception of Sayid, who can tinker well with electronics when not torturing folks.

- Tom

I am a member of the smallest genetic minority on the Planet, less than 3%. Redheads. We do not even have an ethnic group as we are sometimes born into families, with no Redheads, and most often only one parent has the color.
"Slap him like a redheaded step-child", "Red on the head, good in bed".
Complete strangers who would never refer to the genetic coloring of anyone else, assume you have a built in nickname, "Hey Red!" "What is it Blackie", I replied to my African American friend, as bystanders gasped, and stepped back. "I get it" he said, "it won't happen again". The totally unacceptable nickname, being popularized by that "Tom" of a comedian, is "carrot-top", I will knock you out, I won't say anything, I will just Knock you out! Carrot-tops are green!
And what is it with every clown in every circus in the world, having RED hair!? Now that's genetic stereotyping. that's typing with both hands, right?

Let's get back on topic!

Actually, being a life long (and probably genetically predisposed) computer nerd I can tell you that making fun of nerds, geeks, and engineers seems to be the only politically correct group that is still only fair game for some reason.
- Tom
Dont forget Southerners (aka rednecks to the unenlightened). It's painful to watch what "Hollywood" does to this group.

..."Red on the head, good in bed"...

Never heard THAT one before, but having been married to a redhead, I can only say that I'd have to agree with it. Sounds like a compliment to me, but then you disagree... :)

...And a smiley face makes stereotyping acceptable?Why not? Stereotype, Schmereotype - what vitamin is it that helps grow skin? :p

The totally unacceptable nickname, being popularized by that "Tom" of a comedian, is "carrot-top", I will knock you out, I won't say anything, I will just Knock you out! Carrot-tops are green!
And what is it with every clown in every circus in the world, having RED hair!? Now that's genetic stereotyping. that's typing with both hands, right?



Whatever, Benneton. <whistles "We Are the World"...>

Dont forget Southerners (aka rednecks to the unenlightened). It's painful to watch what "Hollywood" does to this group.

Just watched "Elizabethtown" last night, starring Legolas and Spiderman's g'friend. The movie, another fine exposition by Cameron Crowe, depicted Southerners quite righteously. I am rather fond of Southerners. They can can cook a right tasty chicken fried steak.

Interesting topics you guys bring up when there's no new episodes of Lost. But to get it somewhat back on track, has anyone still been keeping up with the comic strip Monty? It's getting quite humorous.

I also got the chance to see what Sawyer was up to before Lost in a B movie called Sabretooth on the SciFi channel. It was quite painful to watch, because apparently before he went on Oceanic Flight 815, Sawyer was fighting a (poor CGI) sabretooth tiger on top of a mountain. :p

Actually, being a life long (and probably genetically predisposed) computer nerd I can tell you that making fun of nerds, geeks, and engineers seems to be the only politically correct group that is still only fair game for some reason.

- Tom
Fat people are still fair game, despite occasional bouts of sensativity. Of course, the opposite extreme (being very thin due to a high metabolism) still allows people to toss out comments like "2-ton toothpick" and "eat a sandwich".

I also got the chance to see what Sawyer was up to before Lost in a B movie called Sabretooth on the SciFi channel. It was quite painful to watch, because apparently before he went on Oceanic Flight 815, Sawyer was fighting a (poor CGI) sabretooth tiger on top of a mountain. :p
Maybe it was an intro course to killing large wild animals. It paid of in the polar bear encounter.

Maybe it was an intro course to killing large wild animals. It paid of in the polar bear encounter.
Possibly, although actually he didn't fair too well against the tiger. It scratched him several times and he also got shot once (not by the tiger though ;) ).

There is little evidence it is also the security system. The security system has a completely different set of characteristics:
1. Mechanical. This is obvious by the sounds it makes while moving.
2. Stealthy. It can hide well in the jungle. It could even be invisible when it wants to be. (agreed, common to the mist)
3. Tall. Locke looked upward to it, and it pulled the jet pilot upward, leaving him in the tree.
4. Violent. It destroys vegetation when it moves, and kills when it hunts.
5. Roaming. (agreed, common to the mist)
6. Less intelligent, less forgiving.
7. "Security system" is only Rousseau's opinion. There is no evidence it can discern between a threat and non-threat, friend or foe. Killing system is more accurate.

Who was it that got caught and was being dragged through the jungle? Wasn't it a chain or cable that was dragging the victim? The eventual destination was down into a hole / cave, but the victim (Sayid?) was rescued (by Locke?).

I cannot remember a time the two were present simultaneously, or when either set of distinct characteristics were mixed. I think they're two different entities on the island. The do both appear to avoid the beach.

It was Locke being dragged through the jungle until Jack "saved" him (though Locke did not particularly want to be rescued). The black smoke and mechanical noises have occurred simultaneously several times, including that very scene, as well as each occurring without us seeing/hearing the other. It is not yet clear whether these two things are directly connected or separate entities/events.

Possibly, although actually he didn't fair too well against the tiger. It scratched him several times and he also got shot once (not by the tiger though ;) ).This guy, Hollowell? Just can't catch a break, can he?

It was Locke being dragged through the jungle until Jack "saved" him (though Locke did not particularly want to be rescued). The black smoke and mechanical noises have occurred simultaneously several times, including that very scene, as well as each occurring without us seeing/hearing the other. It is not yet clear whether these two things are directly connected or separate entities/events.

Man, I'm gonna have to get a DVR...blasted Comcast...

It was Locke being dragged through the jungle until Jack "saved" him (though Locke did not particularly want to be rescued). The black smoke and mechanical noises have occurred simultaneously several times, including that very scene, as well as each occurring without us seeing/hearing the other. It is not yet clear whether these two things are directly connected or separate entities/events.

They are connected. Jack threw dynamite into the hole that the mechanical thing was trying to drag Locke into. The black smoke came out a short distance away and almost acted as if had been injured.

They are connected. Jack threw dynamite into the hole that the mechanical thing was trying to drag Locke into. The black smoke came out a short distance away and almost acted as if had been injured.

Does anyone remember the title of this episode? I'd like to check it out again thru ITunes.

It was either "Episode 23: Exodus, Part One", or "Episode 24: Exodus, Part Two", or both.

Tim

So there's only one language in India, eh? Only one accent? Only one dialect? A billion people and they all talk like the guy on The Simpsons? Or could you be referring to the stereotypical Pakistani accent? Do you even know? Sample a few dozen Bollywood movies, and tell me how many of the actors utter the phrase you typed, with the inflections you placed. Or perhaps you can make a few Indian friends in your community, or within your profession. Then, jokingly, try that little impression on them, and remind them that we all know it is only a joke.

And a smiley face makes stereotyping acceptable?

Quinocampa,
Chill out before Apu smacks you ;)
-Evangelo2

PS. Im Not Racist, I Hate Everyone Equally :)

:o :o :o :o

:cool: Now if there was a source of magnetic interference that was strong enough, it could certainly "pull" a compass to a false reading.

Wait there is a source of magnetic interference. :eek: Depending upon the number of degrees off the True Heading and the number of miles flown, which are a function of time and speed. If you remember KAL Flight 007 that was shot down by the Russians over Kamchatka in the late 70's early 80's. They were 750 miles to the right of course due to few degrees of navigational error.

One degree of compass or map error equals nearly 100 feet of ground error per mile.
SO 1000 miles would be 18.94 miles off.
20 degrees would be 378.8 miles off in 1000 miles of travel or 757.60 miles after 2000 miles of travel. And so forth.

Now, this is ground speed, and let’s say the aircraft is traveling at 650 MPH GS. To fly 2-3000 miles it would take 3- a little over 4.6 hours.

Add to this the fact that the closer you get to the magnetic source, the greater the deviation would become and the degrees off the intended track would increase. So I think the plane started off just a little bit off course and that may have been a malfunction like KAL 007, then as it got closer it got worse quick. So imagine a curved actual path away from the intended path.

Now if you've ever spent much time flying over vast expanses of ocean, there aren't any ground clues, so you rely on instruments for navigation. If they are jammed, malfunctioning or interfered with, it will be subtle enough not to notice.

Same is true for ships and light aircraft, maybe even more so.

For the questions regarding magnetism. I think all the magnetism can do is affect the navigation equipment. Now a tractor beam is another story Captain Kirk! ;) (No offense inteded for the Klingons)

Send up the black cloud nanobots to disturb the airflow over the wings, bring the plane right down.

Well we finally know where Desmond went when he left the bunker. He was in the previews tonight for next weeks episode of 24.

Well we finally know where Desmond went when he left the bunker. He was in the previews tonight for next weeks episode of 24.



hhaha I was just about to post that....guess there's some transportation to LA off the island...and his IMDB profile doesn't list him in any upcoming Lost episodes so I guess we'll never really learn where the hell he went this season

hhaha I was just about to post that....guess there's some transportation to LA off the island...and his IMDB profile doesn't list him in any upcoming Lost episodes so I guess we'll never really learn where the hell he went this season

Uhhhh...funny that...Desmond was never on the island, don't you get it? Dharma fed hallucinogenic drugs into the vapor trapped inside The Hatch. Everyone who came down the hall got a dose. Jack imagined he saw Desmond. It's all mind control, dudes. In fact, the entire cast is in a group therapy session in a special conference room in the basement of the Opera House. There is no island. Heh.