Send up the black cloud nanobots to disturb the airflow over the wings, bring the plane right down.


Right! Pretty as you please, and no one gets hurt! Save only those whom you've previously targeted, regardless of whether they moved out of their seats or failed to buckle up. Kill any unintended survivors once they swim to shore. It seems so obvious now.

Send up the black cloud nanobots to disturb the airflow over the wings, bring the plane right down.Right! Pretty as you please, and no one gets hurt! Save only those whom you've previously targeted, regardless of whether they moved out of their seats or failed to buckle up. Kill any unintended survivors once they swim to shore. It seems so obvious now.C'mon now. If you're not even going to allow for the implausible or unreasonable, this show must really be bugging you. From the very first episode, this show has been filled with things that just don't happen in real life or are unreasonable.

Uhhhh...funny that...Desmond was never on the island, don't you get it? Dharma fed hallucinogenic drugs into the vapor trapped inside The Hatch. Everyone who came down the hall got a dose. Jack imagined he saw Desmond. It's all mind control, dudes. In fact, the entire cast is in a group therapy session in a special conference room in the basement of the Opera House. There is no island. Heh.
There is no island. Whoa. That means I can bend it like that spoon.


^Bad Matrix joke.

There is no island. Whoa. That means I can bend it like that spoon.


^Bad Matrix joke.

No, I was with you on that!

C'mon now. If you're not even going to allow for the implausible or unreasonable, this show must really be bugging you. From the very first episode, this show has been filled with things that just don't happen in real life or are unreasonable.

I understand where you're coming from. However, I don't think there have been all that many unreasonable things. The mist and security system are strange, but not unacceptable. The backstory coincidences are just a fun way to tell the audience that the cast is connected, destined to live this chapter together, sort of like Stephen King's ka. None of those coincidences are actually physically / scientifically outlandish -- no one is doing anything extraordinary. Locke regaining use of his legs offers the possibility of miracle, but as has already been posited, it may have been psychological, we don't know. The black ship? Bad storm, changing island topography. Many stories offer mystical occurances that the reader or audience just accepts. Heck, we've been accepting implausible coincidences and superhuman strength and mental abilities in every bad cops and robbers movie from Hollywood for years.

I just have a problem applying science, and not mysticism, to a highly violent and chaotic event such as a plane crash, where people die in the air, water and land during and afterward, pretending that it was actually carefully controlled.

This show is really getting lost

The show is fine. It's this thread that is really getting lost.

man, when are we getting a new episode - tomorrow night or next week ?

man, when are we getting a new episode - tomorrow night or next week ?


New episodes March 22 and March 29, according to Lost-tv.com.

I understand where you're coming from. However, I don't think there have been all that many unreasonable things. The mist and security system are strange, but not unacceptable. The backstory coincidences are just a fun way to tell the audience that the cast is connected, destined to live this chapter together, sort of like Stephen King's ka. None of those coincidences are actually physically / scientifically outlandish -- no one is doing anything extraordinary.

I certainly hope we get a better explanation for their intersecting lives than mere coincidence. I think the writers are too smart for that.

...I just have a problem applying science, and not mysticism, to a highly violent and chaotic event such as a plane crash, where people die in the air, water and land during and afterward, pretending that it was actually carefully controlled.So it's okay to have a large number of survivors in two separate places from a plane that was split in pieces and basically coming down at terminal velocity, but it's not okay for there to be any higher power (God/Karma/Mother Nature/Elitists with unfathomable technology/etc.) that determines what happens to certain ones? Why would you have a problem with that in a creative, imaginary story?

The writers started breaking down barriers of realistic plausibility from the very beginning. I didn't let go of my expectations easily, but little by little I've relinquished those expectations to where it's now okay with me for the writers to write whatever they want. You may eventually come around to that as well.

Tim

The show is fine. It's this thread that is really getting lost.

Don't listen to him! He's just trying to mislead & confuse us. Remember, his name is rdWALT!! Obviously a Darma plant. :eek:

The show is fine. It's this thread that is really getting lost.
Exactly! Thank you!

~Dan

So it's okay to have a large number of survivors in two separate places from a plane that was split in pieces and basically coming down at terminal velocity,

Ummm...yeah, it happens occasionally. If it was impossible, the films "Fearless", "Alive", and this very show would never have gotten off the ground. So to speak. 30 seconds into a Google search, I found a story about a plane that crashed in Peru, had broken in half, and over half the passengers survived. Find it here:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050824/peru_plane_crash_050824?s_name=&no_ads=


but it's not okay for there to be any higher power (God/Karma/Mother Nature/Elitists with unfathomable technology/etc.) that determines what happens to certain ones? Why would you have a problem with that in a creative, imaginary story?

God is reputed to have more powers than Elitists with unfathomable technology. From that point of view, I can accept divine intervention gathering smart, resourceful people, even some needing redemption, to counter scientists gone mad, mad I tell you! I don't accept that serious drama writers would have us accept unfathomable manheld powers. This isn't X-Men 3. It could be more like Stephen King's "The Stand".

You may eventually come around to that as well.

Tim

Well now, that's patronizing. I don't mind -- I play a bit more rough than some of the apologists in this forum (like the guy who apologized for writing "may be".)

New episodes March 22 and March 29, according to Lost-tv.com.

Thank Dharma! May be this thread will improve again after a new episode.

'Maybe' is one word. :p

Thank Dharma! May be this thread will improve again after a new episode.

Be part of the solution. Asking here when the next new episode is going to be, rather than finding the answer more directly elsewhere, certainly doesn't improve the thread. I for example am taking a pragmatist's approach, while also allowing for creativity and style common to similar American fictions, in my analysis. Others like a no-holds-barred approach. Given that the host for this forum is AVS, home of audio and videophiles, I'd rather not see "man, Kate is hot!", and "you think Jack IS hittin' it?! <Ana Lucia>"

(yeah, I know that's troll bait...have at it.)

Ummm...yeah, it happens occasionally. If it was impossible, the films "Fearless", "Alive", and this very show would never have gotten off the ground. So to speak. 30 seconds into a Google search, I found a story about a plane that crashed in Peru, had broken in half, and over half the passengers survived. Find it here:
[urlhttp://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050824/peru_plane_crash_050824?s_name=&no_ads=[/url]
Ummm...no, it doesn't. Find me a plane that crashed after departing controlled flight at cruising altitude. Your example doesn't cut it, since it broke in half after hitting the ground. The closest one I can think of is a Japan Air Lines 747, which lost its vertical stabilizer at altitude, was somewhat controllable to about 13,000 feet, and subsequently crashed with 4 survivors (out of 520 passengers and crew). You really need to suspend disbelief to think that anyone (let alone 40+ people) could have survived a plane crash like that shown on Lost without external assistance (or divine intervention).

Be part of the solution. ... Given that the host for this forum is AVS, home of audio and videophiles, I'd rather not see "man, Kate is hot!", and "you think Jack IS hittin' it?! <Ana Lucia>"
This statement might mean something if the poster hadn't been playing the race card just a few pages back. If deviations from the the main topic of this thread are a problem to you, then you are not part of the solution either. Personally, I don't see such diversions as a problem at all.

The date of the next episodes, how people on the show look (we are videophiles, after all), wild speculation about the plot, or debating the quality/direction of the plot (or the show in general) are all 100% topical for this thread.

The date of the next episodes, how people on the show look (we are videophiles, after all), wild speculation about the plot, or debating the quality/direction of the plot (or the show in general) are all 100% topical for this thread.
I never said it wasn't topical. After a certain amount of time from a new episode the postings just get mundane and repetitive. Things always get better for a while after a new episode so I'm looking forward to the next 2 weeks.

Ummm...no, it doesn't. Find me a plane that crashed after departing controlled flight at cruising altitude. Your example doesn't cut it, since it broke in half after hitting the ground. The closest one I can think of is a Japan Air Lines 747, which lost its vertical stabilizer at altitude, was somewhat controllable to about 13,000 feet, and subsequently crashed with 4 survivors (out of 520 passengers and crew). You really need to suspend disbelief to think that anyone (let alone 40+ people) could have survived a plane crash like that shown on Lost without external assistance (or divine intervention).
Well, if 40+ didn't survive, then we wouldn't have all the people doing background stuff ;)

I never said it wasn't topical. After a certain amount of time from a new episode the postings just get mundane and repetitive. Things always get better for a while after a new episode so I'm looking forward to the next 2 weeks.

I agree, the off weeks are full of much less interesting speculation. I was responding to post #13770

This statement might mean something if the poster hadn't been playing the race card just a few pages back. If deviations from the the main topic of this thread are a problem to you, then you are not part of the solution either. Personally, I don't see such diversions as a problem at all.

It is consistent. Harassing guys for comments that 1) were off-topic and 2) I found offensive are completely within my suggestion to "be part of the solution". We, the collective we, know little of each other, so it is completely fair, especially in a higher-brow AVS forum, to expect more than average sensitivity and higher than average quality threads. What does it say about the other participants if I'm the one villified for, as you so open-mindedly put it, played the race card?

Well, the plus side is I just figured out how to add someone to my ignore list.

It is consistent. Harassing guys for comments that 1) were off-topic and 2) I found offensive are completely within my suggestion to "be part of the solution". We, the collective we, know little of each other, so it is completely fair, especially in a higher-brow AVS forum, to expect more than average sensitivity and higher than average quality threads. What does it say about the other participants if I'm the one villified for, as you so open-mindedly put it, played the race card?


We aren't so "high-brow", and if that's what you are trying to get everyone to conform to, I don't think you will have much luck. How about just discussing the show instead of continually criticising others for not talking about what you want to talk about - or not being as hyper-sensitive as you appear to be.

Ummm...no, it doesn't. Find me a plane that crashed after departing controlled flight at cruising altitude. Your example doesn't cut it, since it broke in half after hitting the ground. The closest one I can think of is a Japan Air Lines 747, which lost its vertical stabilizer at altitude, was somewhat controllable to about 13,000 feet, and subsequently crashed with 4 survivors (out of 520 passengers and crew). You really need to suspend disbelief to think that anyone (let alone 40+ people) could have survived a plane crash like that shown on Lost without external assistance (or divine intervention).

You've missed the point. To how much of a higher standard will Lost be held? I mean, it is a TV show, fiction genre. Most action/adventure/sci-fi is liberal with what it asks the viewer to accept without it being a major plot point. Plane crashes do happen. There can be survivors. Is Lost's crash more outlandish than non-fiction? Yup. So is every other movie or TV explosion, death, kickboxing fight, etc. Look at what was proposed as possible in Hero or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Did the story have to explain how these fighters could fight in the treetops, or walk on water? You just accept it as part of the creative license. To stop and explain everything is to not move the story forward. How many other TV shows have to do that? 24? X-Files? Family Guy (he,he)?

We aren't so "high-brow", and if that's what you are trying to get everyone to conform to, I don't think you will have much luck. How about just discussing the show instead of continually criticising others for not talking about what you want to talk about - or not being as hyper-sensitive as you appear to be.

Get everyone to conform to. Yes. You nailed it. In such a short period of time, too. I underestimated your intellectual prowess...

If every point stated stood without debate or contention, no hypothesis would be refined. It would just be a long thread of suppositions with no actual conversation. What is the point of the reply button and including someone else's quote? So, one guy says "I think this is going to happen," then 50 others say, "Yes!"? Is that what you're trying to get everyone to conform to? You conduct your forum participation according to your value system, and I will to mine. Whether you agree with me or disagree is not what I'm in it for.

...little by little I've relinquished those expectations to where it's now okay with me for the writers to write whatever they want. You may eventually come around to that as well.Well now, that's patronizing. I don't mind -- I play a bit more rough than some of the apologists in this forum (like the guy who apologized for writing "may be".)How is that patronizing? "Come around" can have more than one meaning - it doesn't necessarily mean a change for the better any more than it might refer to a reversal.
It is consistent. Harassing guys for comments that 1) were off-topic and 2) I found offensive are completely within my suggestion to "be part of the solution". We, the collective we, know little of each other, so it is completely fair, especially in a higher-brow AVS forum, to expect more than average sensitivity and higher than average quality threads. What does it say about the other participants if I'm the one villified for, as you so open-mindedly put it, played the race card?That's funny, LOL. Are you the same "Quinocampa" who said in the quote above that you "play a bit more rough"? Seems like you went soft on us pretty quickly! :D :D

Well, if 40+ didn't survive, then we wouldn't have all the people doing background stuff ;)

Female Survivor with Ponytail is HOT!! Did you notice two episodes ago, where she appeared to be carrying a box, or item of clothing or something, off the beach? What was THAT all about??

You've missed the point. To how much of a higher standard will Lost be held? I mean, it is a TV show, fiction genre. Most action/adventure/sci-fi is liberal with what it asks the viewer to accept without it being a major plot point. Plane crashes do happen. There can be survivors. Is Lost's crash more outlandish than non-fiction? Yup. So is every other movie or TV explosion, death, kickboxing fight, etc. Look at what was proposed as possible in Hero or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Did the story have to explain how these fighters could fight in the treetops, or walk on water? You just accept it as part of the creative license. To stop and explain everything is to not move the story forward. How many other TV shows have to do that? 24? X-Files? Family Guy (he,he)?Well, good. I see you're coming around :D already. So are you going to back down from some of your earlier statements implying that the writers owe you certain explanations?

Well, good. I see you're coming around :D already. So are you going to back down from some of your earlier statements implying that the writers owe you certain explanations?

I thought I was the guy saying we don't need that?! Refresh my memory.

...I'm not going to fill my prose with emoticons to soften the intent...If you stay active on online forums for very long, I expect you'll find that emoticons sometimes compliment simple words nicely for even more effective communication.

(Now that's patronizing - LOL) :p

Well, the plus side is I just figured out how to add someone to my ignore list.Outstanding. :)

I thought I was the guy saying we don't need that?! Refresh my memory.Based on your reaction, should I assume that how you started post #13724 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7288551&&#post7288551) with

The thing about the black mist is, it does have to be explained somehow...

You didn't mean that the writers have to explain it?

You don't want to see it, don't look at it. Someone who comes to a 460 page thread and pontificates in a particularly judgemental fashion, better look in the mirror for the trolls. (No smilie face here). Oh good, the ignore button still works?

Based on your reaction, should I assume that how you started post #13724 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7288551&&#post7288551) with



You didn't mean that the writers have to explain it?

Hmmm...what I DIDN'T mean is that I need them to explain it. Rather, I believe it is one of the things they WILL explain. Why? Because it is a prominent part of the story, NOT a thing that happened once to further the plot. The black ship? That's something I do not expect to see in a future episode. It served as a place to find dynamite, and to illustrate the weirdness of the island. I chose that particular aspect of the story to analyze (thanks for your contribution to that discussion, by the way) because I think it/they are a major antagonist to our heros. You have The Others, and you have the mist / machine. Who or what else threatens the gang? Chirping frogs? A dead polar bear? The black horse? Boars? Moby Dick?

Are we clear now?

Enough of the personal comments.

Keep on topic or deletions will summarily occur.

Keep on topic or deletions will summarily occur.

They already have.

They already have.
Correct you are.

Thank you.

-From the rest of us

Who else thinks Ken is definately on the Dharma payroll?

Who else thinks Ken is definately on the Dharma payroll?
KenH?

Well, of course he is...We're only here because he lets us stay here! :eek:

:D

~Dan

Ken may simply be a self-imposed enforcer created by our collective imaginations. Even our subconscious knows that without restraint and boundaries, we are destined for anarchy.

If you'd rather not see posts like "man, Kate is hot!", then I suggest you be part of the solution and not come here.

Ken may simply be a self-imposed enforcer created by our collective imaginations. Even our subconscious knows that without restraint and boundaries, we are destined for anarchy.

I would have thought the imaginations of the guys on this forum, based on reading previous posts, would have created some hot female enforcer who used phrases like "stop being naughty" and "I'll have to spank you right out of the thread." Of course Ken is nice, too. :D

Who else thinks Ken is definately on the Dharma payroll?
Ken *used* to be on the Dharma payroll...But not since "the incident." :D

Actually, Ken IS the hot one! He's just coy.

Of course Ken is nice, too. :D
Just don't go on his side of the board otherwise he'll put on a fake beard and take a hostage ;)

Well, the plus side is I just figured out how to add someone to my ignore list.

I did that about 4 pages back. Unfortunately the little weasle still shows up occasionally in the email notifications. :eek:

I did that about 4 pages back. Unfortunately the little weasle still shows up occasionally in the email notifications. :eek:

That's "weasel". :D

That's "weasel". :D

POP !! :D

That's "weasel". :D

LMAO!

Last fall I started watching Lost, and came to this forum with a few impressions. I found out that The Church Of Lost requires penance before posting, so I watched the entire first season before making any more comments.

But now that I've seen all the episodes, I will never criticize this show again. I know now that every detail in every scene, even the polar bear and the pirate ship, is part of the Lost master plan, and must never be criticized or questioned. Some series could be described as slow moving, but with Lost it's called "backstory". Some series have huge plot holes, but with Lost it's called "mystery".

In time you will learn too, grasshopper.

I know now that every detail in every scene, even the polar bear and the pirate ship, is part of the Lost master plan, and must never be criticized or questioned. Some series could be described as slow moving, but with Lost it's called "backstory". Some series have huge plot holes, but with Lost it's called "mystery".

In time you will learn too, grasshopper.

It would be unprecedented, wouldn't it be? It really depends on the fans' ability to stay tuned. So long as ratings are good, writers can write in the way you describe, and fans can get a full, complete story. The alternative is the feature length movie following cancellation, as with Firefly, X-Files, and Twin Peaks. Still, with X-Files, for example, they could tie only so many loose ends. I remember many people still being dissatisfied.

Maybe it's my imagination, but watching tonight's episode makes me think that the music from the first season was much better than the current season. This season's seems downright bland in comparison.

I don't think it's just me, because my wife said almost the exact same thing just as I was thinking it.

Scott

Was reading on Wikipedia that the producers have directly debunked many popular fan theories. Amongst the several listed were the Purgatory theory, nanobots are the black mist, and "Everything seen is a fictional reality taking place in one or more of the survivors' minds". References are provided with the entries. The page itself is a pretty good read. I liked the essay on black and white, which is how I found myself there tonight to begin with (the stones Jack found on the corpses on tonight's episode).

Happy hunting!

Was reading on Wikipedia that the producers have directly debunked many popular fan theories. Amongst the several listed were the Purgatory theory, nanobots are the black mist, and "Everything seen is a fictional reality taking place in one or more of the survivors' minds".I'm a little tired, but I didn't see (any quotes of) when or where the producers debunked any theories.

i've searched, and i give up. when is a new episode supposed to show. my wife said she saw commercials today that claimed tonight was supposed to be new. what's up?

i've searched, and i give up. when is a new episode supposed to show. my wife said she saw commercials today that claimed tonight was supposed to be new. what's up?
Next week.

Here's the schedule:
3/22 - The Whole Truth
3/29 - Lockdown
4/5 - Dave
4/12 - Some unspecified repeat
4/19 - S.O.S

From tv.com.

I'm a little tired, but I didn't see (any quotes of) when or where the producers debunked any theories.

Each theory is stated with the name of the director who debunked it, followed by a superscripted reference number. Then, 3 sections below, are the numbered references with links to the articles if they're available on the web.

Here is a link to the Wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)#_note-4

Lindelof explained in no uncertain terms that the mysterious cloud of black smoke that appeared after Kate dynamited the hole down which Locke was being dragged is not a cloud of nanobots. "Of course," he added, "that depends on how you define 'nanobot'." I'd have to say that the door was left pretty much open based on his quote there actually. Is this like Clinton's definition of sex?


ron

Maybe instead of nanobots they're the less expensive microbots or even the highly refined picobots ;).


ron

Is it possible they're modern, evolved versions of the Rock-um, Sock-um Robots?

Nah, its the collective killer fart gas of the "others." :D

I'd have to say that the door was left pretty much open based on his quote there actually. Is this like Clinton's definition of sex?ron

The last time I mentioned Clinton my post disappeared; twice.

The last time I mentioned Clinton my post disappeared; twice.Well, I don't recall your posts, but mine was used as an example of something, not really in a derogatory manner. Besides, I'm a Democrat so I'm allowed to talk smack on him anyway. It's kind of like black people being able to call each other the n-word but white people can't :D.


ron

Well, I don't recall your posts, but mine was used as an example of something, not really in a derogatory manner. Besides, I'm a Democrat so I'm allowed to talk smack on him anyway. It's kind of like black people being able to call each other the n-word but white people can't :D. ron

That's because they were deleted practically immediately after I posted them. Wasn't derogatory, just 'smack' as you say. Guess someone knows I'm a Republican!

This particular forum is ruled by an iron hand, gentlemen. There are spies everywhere. Trust no one, and never forget: they hate us for our freedoms. ;)

Was reading on Wikipedia that the producers have directly debunked many popular fan theories. Amongst the several listed were the Purgatory theory, nanobots are the black mist, and "Everything seen is a fictional reality taking place in one or more of the survivors' minds". References are provided with the entries. The page itself is a pretty good read. I liked the essay on black and white, which is how I found myself there tonight to begin with (the stones Jack found on the corpses on tonight's episode).

Happy hunting!

Is there a synopsis somewhere of the Lost 'theories', debunked and not yet debunked? I'd have to be unemployed to page thru even a fraction of this thread.

I woke up at 2:30am this morning with a new (for me) 'theory' of Lost (this show is a disease ;)). I didn't even watch last night, but I had just read the first 50 pages of 'The Stand', so I guess I had Lost on the brain, at least subliminally.

I don't dare post my theory until I know for sure it's actually something 'new' (which I doubt).

Post it, we'll tell you.

This particular forum is ruled by an iron hand, gentlemen.That is correct. And why don't you tell everyone why?

Aw, show 'em the velvet glove, Ken.

That is correct. And why don't you tell everyone why?

Um, well, okay. I'm one of those who believe the hammer falls much too quickly around here if a post begins to wander O.T. a bit. I believe that conversations tend to drift, 'cause that's the way people talk, and if it's an organic process, i.e. the discussion is germane to the topic, then it should be allowed to drift away unless it gets "uncivil". As long as members "keep it clean" and avoid personal attacks, then I see no harm in letting the discussion continue until it simply peters out on its own. Any such topic will eventually burn itself out and the thread will die a natural death anyway. Very few people with strongly held positions can be persuaded to change them I've found, but occasionally we may learn something from well presented arguments by the "loyal opposition" - and that may be helpful in the long run. Less censorship is usually better than more, IMO, as long as things don't get out of control. That goes for a free society as well as a free website. Note that this particular thread is different because the topic itself doesn't really lend itself it to the type of politically-tinged discussion we're speaking of. (That being said, I don't know the subject matter of the deleted posts referenced above as they were gone before I got a chance to read them.)

But The Man and I don't always see eye-to-eye on this. ;)

Post it, we'll tell you.

Alrighty then...

My theory is that these people are not really crash survivors. They've always been on the island. They were all given memories, right up to being on a plane which starts to break apart in the air. They come to on the beach and believe they've survived a crash, and the experiment (one of many on the island) begins.

A lot of them have the memories of a person at odds with who they are in reality. Many have a 'bad' past. Will they act in accordance with the memories they have of themselves, or will their innate character win out, etc.

ex: Charlie thinks he's a drug addict. Will he continue (actually, start) taking drugs? Of course they're conveniently available.

A lot of them have memories which link them together. What will happen as they discover the relationships that they (think) they have with one another? How will they react to external threats to the group?

I think they're being observed to see who is 'worthy' or 'good'.

http://www.comics.com/comics/monty/archive/images/monty2006048850317.gif

Alrighty then...

My theory is that these people are not really crash survivors. They've always been on the island. They were all given memories, right up to being on a plane which starts to break apart in the air. They come to on the beach and believe they've survived a crash, and the experiment (one of many on the island) begins.

A lot of them have the memories of a person at odds with who they are in reality. Many have a 'bad' past. Will they act in accordance with the memories they have of themselves, or will their innate character win out, etc.

ex: Charlie thinks he's a drug addict. Will he continue (actually, start) taking drugs? Of course they're conveniently available.

A lot of them have memories which link them together. What will happen as they discover the relationships that they (think) they have with one another? How will they react to external threats to the group?

I think they're being observed to see who is 'worthy' or 'good'.

Hasn't the "unwitting participants in a game or experiment" theory been debunked??? Or hasn't it???

I read this paragraph on the Wikipedia page. The essay was about the widely acknowledged link between names of philosophers and the names of some of the show's characters:
"Second, Locke's protegé, Boone Carlyle, shares his name with Thomas Carlyle, a nineteenth-century essayist who spoke of the organization, structure and leadership of society. In his book Heroes and Hero Worship, he proclaimed that by necessity, heroic leaders were inevitably flawed."
I cannot speak further to this book or its author. However, it is clear in the show that most major characters are flawed. The tone of good versus evil is also widely observed within the plot. I don't think it is a stretch to place our survivors in the mode of "heroes". So, the island becomes the setting for a classic good vs. evil struggle between our flawed heroes and their assailants, whom we've come to call The Others (I sometimes like to think of the true Others as the ones whose whispered, disembodied voices were eerily heard by some of our jungle wandering heroes).

To me, what the writers communicate is that The Story is highly inspired by past fiction and philosophy within our culture. Many times, it has been openly acknowledged.

Personally, I tend to blindly accept the legitimacy of what we've been shown as the reality of how they got to the island. That is, independent characters converge at one point in time, on the doomed flight. Their paths have crossed before in some sort of cosmic fateful selection process, because they are somehow best suited to become the eventual heroes. This is very much like Stephen King's The Stand. Okay, the crash details are not completely physically probable, but that's Hollywood -- some think that's a weak position, it's possible. I accept these background events because now we're into the meat of the story. It had to be set in motion, the start of the good/evil battle. Their approach was a good as any other.

Hasn't the "unwitting participants in a game or experiment" theory been debunked??? Or hasn't it???

I haven't seen that debunked. I also believe the theory proposed is unique, especially from the standpoint that they (all losties) could actually have been willing participants in this study/experiment.

Um, well, okay. I'm one of those who believe the hammer falls much too quickly around here if a post begins to wander O.T. a bit.

But The Man and I don't always see eye-to-eye on this. ;)

I find your opinion refreshing and fair. Of course many people have many definitions of your quoted terms "uncivil" and "keep it clean". It is not always clear here who Justice favors.

My theory is that these people are not really crash survivors. They've always been on the island. They were all given memories, right up to being on a plane which starts to break apart in the air. They come to on the beach and believe they've survived a crash, and the experiment (one of many on the island) begins.

<snip>

ex: Charlie thinks he's a drug addict. Will he continue (actually, start) taking drugs? Of course they're conveniently available.



All original theories are valid in that the eventual truth hasn't yet been presented. For me, I see Charlie and Claire as potential holes here though. Charlie -- IIRC, he had his own remaining stash of heroine on him, and was using early on. It was what Locke talked him into giving up before he found the additional heroine in the statues. He begins on the island already having an addiction and using, not just memories of such. Claire -- she was pregnant. If she were a participant in the experiment, in order to enter into it, she would have to agree to the possibility of having her baby abducted, with no guarantee that the group would resolve to retrieve it successfully. It is hard for me, as a recent father, to accept that a mother would agree for the sake of experimentation. Earlier, with the abduction and possible surgery, either the captors would have had to allow her to escape, or leave the possibility to the behavioral experiment. What if she didn't escape? Would she have unwittingly agreed to have surgery?

If they can plant a full set of memories into the brain, it certainly isn't a stretch to think that they could plant a small stash of heroin on Charlie.

If they can plant a full set of memories into the brain, it certainly isn't a stretch to think that they could plant a small stash of heroin on Charlie.

Absolutely, but how do they plant the physical addiction -- he was using on the island, and exhibited a junkie's tells.

All original theories are valid in that the eventual truth hasn't yet been presented. For me, I see Charlie and Claire as potential holes here though. Charlie -- IIRC, he had his own remaining stash of heroine on him, and was using early on. It was what Locke talked him into giving up before he found the additional heroine in the statues. He begins on the island already having an addiction and using, not just memories of such. Claire -- she was pregnant. If she were a participant in the experiment, in order to enter into it, she would have to agree to the possibility of having her baby abducted, with no guarantee that the group would resolve to retrieve it successfully. It is hard for me, as a recent father, to accept that a mother would agree for the sake of experimentation. Earlier, with the abduction and possible surgery, either the captors would have had to allow her to escape, or leave the possibility to the behavioral experiment. What if she didn't escape? Would she have unwittingly agreed to have surgery?

The heroin Charlie was carrying could have been placed on him. When the experiment begins, in his memory he is a user, and he has drugs on him. Does he "use" right away? Turns out he did. Or he may have been conditioned to become a junkie as part of the preparation for the experiment (in addition to the memory implant).

I don't think the losties are willing participants in this experiment. Claire and the others were not given a choice. They had their memories wiped (permanently?) and replaced with those desired for the experiment.

Also I think their are concurrent experiments going on. These are not sufficiently isolated from one another, perhaps because there is more than one group conducting them. So occassionally people involved in different experiments 'interact' with one another?

I read this paragraph on the Wikipedia page. The essay was about the widely acknowledged link between names of philosophers and the names of some of the show's characters:
"Second, Locke's protegé, Boone Carlyle, shares his name with Thomas Carlyle, a nineteenth-century essayist who spoke of the organization, structure and leadership of society. In his book Heroes and Hero Worship, he proclaimed that by necessity, heroic leaders were inevitably flawed."
I cannot speak further to this book or its author. However, it is clear in the show that most major characters are flawed. The tone of good versus evil is also widely observed within the plot. I don't think it is a stretch to place our survivors in the mode of "heroes". So, the island becomes the setting for a classic good vs. evil struggle between our flawed heroes and their assailants, whom we've come to call The Others (I sometimes like to think of the true Others as the ones whose whispered, disembodied voices were eerily heard by some of our jungle wandering heroes).

To me, what the writers communicate is that The Story is highly inspired by past fiction and philosophy within our culture. Many times, it has been openly acknowledged.

Personally, I tend to blindly accept the legitimacy of what we've been shown as the reality of how they got to the island. That is, independent characters converge at one point in time, on the doomed flight. Their paths have crossed before in some sort of cosmic fateful selection process, because they are somehow best suited to become the eventual heroes. This is very much like Stephen King's The Stand. Okay, the crash details are not completely physically probable, but that's Hollywood -- some think that's a weak position, it's possible. I accept these background events because now we're into the meat of the story. It had to be set in motion, the start of the good/evil battle. Their approach was a good as any other.

Myself and others (not the "Others" or the "Other Others" :D ) have given you are hard time from the beginning, and I have disagreed with most of what you have said. But I really like your synopsis or "theory" as you explained it in this post.

One thing about the flawed hero statement: Hasn't that been an underlying theme of every Epic ever written? When we studied the Odyssey in high school, one of the main guidelines was that Odysseus was a great hero with one major flaw that plagues him through his quest. And although he would accomplish his purpose, the flaw would end in his destruction or death. Sounds a lot like what Carlyle was saying only it came a thousand years earlier. I've never heard of Carlyle, but I did study Locke and Rousseau in my college Philosophy classes (loved that class, btw). However, I have little knowledge of the soft sciences as I was a Physics/Chemistry major.

I do enjoy learning from everyone on this forum because I don't plan on letting Lost cause me to do some research in a textbook. Reading about it on this forum makes my wife think I am nerdy enough. Spending time researching the show would take it to another level I am afraid of approaching. :rolleyes:

The heroin Charlie was carrying could have been placed on him. When the experiment begins, in his memory he is a user, and he has drugs on him. Does he "use" right away? Turns out he did. Or he may have been conditioned to become a junkie as part of the preparation for the experiment (in addition to the memory implant).

I don't think the losties are willing participants in this experiment. Claire and the others were not given a choice. They had their memories wiped (permanently?) and replaced with those desired for the experiment.

Also I think their are concurrent experiments going on. These are not sufficiently isolated from one another, perhaps because there is more than one group conducting them. So occassionally people involved in different experiments 'interact' with one another?

I like your theory as well. I have let my mind be indulged by the "Ultimate Theory" by Andrew Smith. I do think, however, that things don't have to be quite as complicated as his theory proclaims. Occam's Razor, right? On the other hand, a little indulgence never killed anybody.

I don't think the losties are willing participants in this experiment. Claire and the others were not given a choice. They had their memories wiped (permanently?) and replaced with those desired for the experiment.

Also I think their are concurrent experiments going on. These are not sufficiently isolated from one another, perhaps because there is more than one group conducting them. So occassionally people involved in different experiments 'interact' with one another?

How do the Orientation film clips, which tell of early experiments and history, and which were not overly difficult to discover, affect this experiment? Would you consider it a corruption of the purity of the experiment? I mean, wouldn't it color the logical considerations the unwilling participants might have, once they view it? Might it shift their actions away from a path they might have followed before knowing experiments occurred there? In fact, wouldn't the presence of bunkers and other indicators of pre-existing scientists pollute the experiment? We might assume that the losties would almost assuredly discover The Hatch, the tailies' bunker, the medical bunker, and all the contents therein. It would follow that these discoveries would be intentionally allowed under the experiment's conditions. That would have to figure into this theory's concept of the purpose of the experiment, because it leads the participants back to a time when they still had their real memories.

We can't really speculate how different factors may, or may not, corrupt or contaminate the experiment without knowing what the purpose of the experiment is.

I haven't seen that debunked. I also believe the theory proposed is unique, especially from the standpoint that they (all losties) could actually have been willing participants in this study/experiment.

This SORT OF debunks the "game" theory:

Cuse concedes, however, that the wrong answer - such as the theory that the island is a reality TV show and the castaways unwitting housemates - risks shattering the audience's suspension of disbelief. "There is always that danger," he says.

Source: Wikipedia>Lost>Discredited Theories

Myself and others (not the "Others" or the "Other Others" :D ) have given you are hard time from the beginning, and I have disagreed with most of what you have said. But I really like your synopsis or "theory" as you explained it in this post.

One thing about the flawed hero statement:
<snip>
Spending time researching the show would take it to another level I am afraid of approaching. :rolleyes:

One thing I perhaps falsely assumed was that many people who agree with themselves to invest time in a forum have likely already researched the topic elsewhere. Under those terms, I expected people here to be aware of other information already out there. For example, because the show is so popular, the media have had widespread contact with the show's creators, producers, writers, and cast. In fact, a couple producers have a forum they participate in directly. From all this content external to this forum has likely come fact, along with theory. If participants have read the cited books, have listened to the podcasts, have read the articles and interviews, the collective wisdom gleaned from that would likely result in much more substantial theories and more persuasive debates. That is not always the case here in this forum, myself included. Still, I believe clearer answers already exist. And you're right, it is a whole 'nother level.

This SORT OF debunks the "game" theory:

Cuse concedes, however, that the wrong answer - such as the theory that the island is a reality TV show and the castaways unwitting housemates - risks shattering the audience's suspension of disbelief. "There is always that danger," he says.

Source: Wikipedia>Lost>Discredited Theories

I think Hollywood, over the past several years, has conditioned us to expect the shocking surprise ending. You see it over and over in mainstream movies and television. It leads to armchair analysis that disputes what one sees from the very beginning. In the end, when the surprise isn't substantial enough (Shamalayan's The Village), viewers are disappointed, even angry. Surely there are those out there desiring to be a part of a more traditional storytelling effort--WYSIWYG. There is still so much great mileage to get out of this approach. Personally, it is the approach I'm hoping for with Lost. For me, it is still working quite well. I WILL feel cheated if "it was all a dream" or whatever.

We can't really speculate how different factors may, or may not, corrupt or contaminate the experiment without knowing what the purpose of the experiment is.

What we can do however, is consider real world experimental techniques. I'm not saying we force reality and this show's fiction to corroborate -- just consider. In real science, you're looking at a pretty narrow correlation between cause and effect, testing a fairly precise theory. You also try to manage and maintain external factors to the point that they behave consistently throughout the experiment, or so that they are marginalized. If you set up an experiment, then allow many random events to color it, you've lost a degree of control. Assuming Dharma was populated with true scientists, I would tend to believe they would favor controlled experimentation. All that being said, yeah, this proposed theory didn't discuss purpose. Therein lies the rub, eh?

Definitely the rub. This could be the third, fourth, or fifth generation of the experiment with additional variables (bunkers, abductions, etc) added into the mix each time to build on what they learned previously.

One thing I perhaps falsely assumed was that many people who agree with themselves to invest time in a forum have likely already researched the topic elsewhere. Under those terms, I expected people here to be aware of other information already out there. For example, because the show is so popular, the media have had widespread contact with the show's creators, producers, writers, and cast. In fact, a couple producers have a forum they participate in directly. From all this content external to this forum has likely come fact, along with theory. If participants have read the cited books, have listened to the podcasts, have read the articles and interviews, the collective wisdom gleaned from that would likely result in much more substantial theories and more persuasive debates. That is not always the case here in this forum, myself included. Still, I believe clearer answers already exist. And you're right, it is a whole 'nother level.

I was just saying that I don't plan on spending hours brushing up on what I learned in my Philosophy class for a TV show. I have a family, a job, a life. I enjoy spending a good deal of time chatting about the show on here and a couple other sites. But I am not going to go the extra mile over a TV show. For me that goes past entertainment and into work. I like exploring the realm of possibilities with this show, but I am not going to make it an obsession.

I like exploring the realm of possibilities with this show, but I am not going to make it an obsession.

I'm afraid I'm moving more toward obsession. Get thee behind me, Winter! And puh-lease push!

It mightn't have sounded like it, but I was agreeing with you on point, that being that we will only find so much truth as outsiders to the creators' enclave.

I'm afraid I'm moving more toward obsession. Get thee behind me, Winter! And puh-lease push!

It mightn't have sounded like it, but I was agreeing with you on point, that being that we will only find so much truth as outsiders to the creators' enclave.

Of course that is what makes things more fun. Go over to 4815162345.com. If our little discussion here could be considered obsession, then those folks are all posting from asylums.

If we had inside perspective it wouldn't be any fun. "We hunt for the thrill of the chase." We watch the show and offer conjecture here in the pursuit of the answers. The more we have just handed to us the less we would enjoy it. We all agonize over how slowly we are fed tidbits, but that gives us more time to guess and assume and come up with crazy ideas that Quino can shoot down or disprove. :D

but that gives us more time to guess and assume and come up with crazy ideas that Quino can shoot down or disprove. :D

All in a good day's work! (sheesh, that obvious, was it? heh..)

Alrighty then...

My theory is that these people are not really crash survivors. They've always been on the island. They were all given memories, ... ...I think they're being observed to see who is 'worthy' or 'good'.

I like it, different, and possible.

I thought in one of the interviews or podcasts that the writers said there really was a plane crash or that it did happen. Maybe someone else has a quote or at least also remembers that.

I do like that theory, though. Even if it turns out not to be true. I'm getting to the point where I don't care if the theories are correct or not. They aren't theories of what direction the writers are taking it but what direction they could be/could have taken it. Its kind of like the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books I read when I was a kid.

Its kind of like the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books I read when I was a kid.

Speaking of books, has anyone read the official tie-in books available? From Wikipedia:
As of March of 2006, three tie-in novels have been published:
Endangered Species by Cathy Hapka; released November 1, 2005. (ISBN 0786890908)
Secret Identity by Cathy Hapka; released January 1, 2006 (ISBN 0786890916).
Signs of Life by Frank Thompson; released March 1, 2006 (ISBN 0786890924).

What's up with these tie-in books? Are these authors simply riffing on their own theories just for the fun of it? Or is it just a money grab, figuring a certain number of obsessed fans will buy anything associated with the show? Are any of them "officially" tied in with ABC and/or the show itself?

Go over to 4815162345.com

Er, you mean 4815162342.com...

Otherwise, bad things happen:

http://ferrarishields.com/countdown.jpg

~Dan

How do the Orientation film clips, which tell of early experiments and history, and which were not overly difficult to discover, affect this experiment? Would you consider it a corruption of the purity of the experiment? I mean, wouldn't it color the logical considerations the unwilling participants might have, once they view it? Might it shift their actions away from a path they might have followed before knowing experiments occurred there? In fact, wouldn't the presence of bunkers and other indicators of pre-existing scientists pollute the experiment? We might assume that the losties would almost assuredly discover The Hatch, the tailies' bunker, the medical bunker, and all the contents therein. It would follow that these discoveries would be intentionally allowed under the experiment's conditions. That would have to figure into this theory's concept of the purpose of the experiment, because it leads the participants back to a time when they still had their real memories.

Not overly difficult to discover? It was a fluke that they discovered the hatch. But in any event, I'm not willing to assume that the experimenters are actually "all there" in terms of their sanity :).

The experiment is not pure... and the losties discovery of the hatch and the other groups on the island are helping them back towards rediscovering their actual identities?

Er, you mean 4815162342.com...

Otherwise, bad things happen:

http://ferrarishields.com/countdown.jpg

~Dan

I stand corrected. I wondered why I didn't win the national powerball. Dang 42!

I thought in one of the interviews or podcasts that the writers said there really was a plane crash or that it did happen. Maybe someone else has a quote or at least also remembers that.


what I remember hearing was that we would be shown the full story of the plane crash this season. Whatever that means. I love the titles of the next episodes, "The Whole Truth" and "Lockdown" (from memory--too lazy to scan back).

What's up with these tie-in books? Are these authors simply riffing on their own theories just for the fun of it? Or is it just a money grab, figuring a certain number of obsessed fans will buy anything associated with the show? Are any of them "officially" tied in with ABC and/or the show itself?

Judging by Amazon reviews, cash grab with little relevance. They cover some background characters and do not impact the TV story in any way, according to the reviewers.

Red herring.

My theory is that these people are not really crash survivors. They've always been on the island. They were all given memories, right up to being on a plane which starts to break apart in the air. They come to on the beach and believe they've survived a crash, and the experiment (one of many on the island) begins.

Sounds good. Maybe they are really all in a room together connected to some machine that causes them the believe they are really experiencing things, when actually they are in some kind of matrix where....oh, wait, nobody would ever believe that as a plot.

...but seriously, I think it is more likely it is a controlled experiment, and therefore easier to explain all of the "coincidences" of crossed lives. The chances of that are probably 1 to the 108th power.

...but seriously, I think it is more likely it is a controlled experiment, and therefore easier to explain all of the "coincidences" of crossed lives. The chances of that are probably 1 to the 108th power.
1^108? You mean just 1? :p

It will be quite a task (at series' end) to tie all this up into one neat little package. Perhaps there could be multiple theoretical conclusions and they'll leave it to a voting audience to best decide. That would make us the true experiment subjects.

I know some are dabbling with obsession in LOST, as I myself was marginally close at times this winter - even to the extent of re-watching episodes and slo-mo'ing stuff.

However, now I'm finding that I wish there weren't going to be any new episodes before March Madness is over. I don't know how I'll be able to keep up and still have time with the family. As the days get longer and the weather gets better, something's probably going to have to go and it just might be LOST. Having said that, I'm terribly interested to know how much of the experiment is really under control (assuming it ever was).

By the way, Michigan State is blowing up my bracket right now. :D Well, okay, so is Connecticut (but that's probably true with half the country!).

It will be quite a task (at series' end) to tie all this up into one neat little package. Perhaps there could be multiple theoretical conclusions and they'll leave it to a voting audience to best decide. That would make us the true experiment subjects.

They could start with 12 possible conclusions. Each week, they could discuss the merits of each, and there would be a vote by telephone or text message. Week by week, the audience would dwindle the conclusions down to one final winner.

By the way, Michigan State is blowing up my bracket right now. :D Well, okay, so is Connecticut (but that's probably true with half the country!).

I graduated from George Mason.. :D I wish I didn't miss the game :rolleyes:

I still can't fathom how my school turned out this good a team in 2 years !!

They could start with 12 possible conclusions. Each week, they could discuss the merits of each, and there would be a vote by telephone or text message. Week by week, the audience would dwindle the conclusions down to one final winner.

If it happens, may God save us from votefortheworst.com !! :D :D

They could start with 12 possible conclusions. Each week, they could discuss the merits of each, and there would be a vote by telephone or text message. Week by week, the audience would dwindle the conclusions down to one final winner.

That would make for an interesting cop-out by the producers. Nah....too American Idolish.

That would make for an interesting cop-out by the producers. Nah....too American Idolish.

Exactly.

It will be quite a task (at series' end) to tie all this up into one neat little package. Perhaps there could be multiple theoretical conclusions and they'll leave it to a voting audience to best decide. That would make us the true experiment subjects.

I think it is more likely they will take an X-Files approach, and just not explain many of the details. That leaves it to our imagination, which can work pretty well. It also leaves it open for other follow-ons like extended series, or big screen movies.

Ed

I think it is more likely they will take an X-Files approach, and just not explain many of the details. That leaves it to our imagination, which can work pretty well. It also leaves it open for other follow-ons like extended series, or big screen movies.

Ed

Indeed, Ed, I have also anticipated this direction. Of course, there will be occurrences and details that directly bear on the story, but I believe it would be incredibly cumbersome to explain everything. The word is called "mystery" for a reason. Scooby Doo was always most thrilling before they found out it was only Mr. McGivers in a rubber suit swinging on stage ropes.

Indeed, Ed, I have also anticipated this direction. Of course, there will be occurrences and details that directly bear on the story, but I believe it would be incredibly cumbersome to explain everything. The word is called "mystery" for a reason. Scooby Doo was always most thrilling before they found out it was only Mr. McGivers in a rubber suit swinging on stage ropes.
You have ruined Scooby for me. There were supposed to be no spoilers!

You have ruined Scooby for me. There were supposed to be no spoilers!And I would have gotten away with enjoying every episode of Scooby Doo, if it weren't for that meddling Quinocampa and his crazy theories about Lost getting in my way! :D

Here's a theory I'm amazed I haven't seen yet. Has anyone floated the idea of The Others being occultists? The black mist is an ethereal evil spirit that renegade Dharma test subjects conjured after tying on one too many hallucinogenic journeys. Appeasing the spirit has meant offering sacrificed humans, and even more appetizing, children or babies. While they mightn't be killed, perhaps they've been ritually bled? The Dharmites have taken advantage of the strange Bermuda Triangle-like penchant the island has for errant passengers and adventurers. The island's remoteness allows them to practice their cult, the island brings them fresh victims, and the spirit is kept at bay. Many thought Season 1 was exceptionally creepy, and it has already been posited that the good vs. evil premise is credible.

Now that Sun may be pregnant, look for a Rosemary's Baby twist.

>;-)

Well now we know where Desmond went, He showed up on "24" tonight.

Well now we know where Desmond went, He showed up on "24" tonight.

Yup, that was my first thought when I saw him...

"How did he get off of that island and How when did he become a german intelligence agent?"

I was hoping that the director would have thrown in a lost reference somewhere (like the pass code to the file that the girl had could have been 108 or something along those lines).

1 more day and we get a new Lost...I'll be taking bets on how disappointing it will be after a 3 week haitus...I really should just give up and wait for the fracking DVDs

1 more day and we get a new Lost...I'll be taking bets on how disappointing it will be after a 3 week haitus...I really should just give up and wait for the fracking DVDs

I missed the first season as broadcast, because I was out of the TV habit, and my wife fights too hard for HGTV. We finally watched it all on DVD, one after the other, to catch us up for season 2. I can tell you, watching 24 uninterrupted consecutive episodes was extremely satisfying. We talked often this season about just waiting for season 2 DVD's as well. Once I bought my plasma in January though, all bets were off. I love Lost in HD.

I was hoping that the director would have thrown in a lost reference somewhere (like the pass code to the file that the girl had could have been 108 or something along those lines).

I doubt FOX would just at the chance to reference an ABC show, but it would have been fun.

I doubt FOX would just at the chance to reference an ABC show....But "The Simpsons" does it all the time. :)

Well, that's true. But they usually do so while poking fun at what they are referencing. I haven't watched the Simpsons in a long time, but I used to never miss an episode. Maybe they reference other shows now because FOX can't come up with any more original thoughts after 20 years.

I doubt FOX would just at the chance to reference an ABC show, but it would have been fun.And Veronica Mars on UPN had an episode where the lottery numbers on the back of a fortune cookie fortune were the Lost numbers.

Xesdeeni

I think that a couple of the Veronica Mars writers used to work with some of the Lost writers back in the Buffy the V.S. and Angel days.

1 more day and we get a new Lost...I'll be taking bets on how disappointing it will be after a 3 week haitus...I really should just give up and wait for the fracking DVDs

Apparently this show is going nowhere

I think that a couple of the Veronica Mars writers used to work with some of the Lost writers back in the Buffy the V.S. and Angel days.

There's that, and the fact that Lost and Veronica Mars are currently stuck in the same time slot. The VM writers must know that 70-80% of their audience watches Lost first and records their show for later.

1 more day and we get a new Lost...I'll be taking bets on how disappointing it will be after a 3 week haitus...I really should just give up and wait for the fracking DVDs
Nobody will take you up on that bet...since you've ALWAYS posted how dissappointed you were immediately after a new episode, and how you should just stop watching, blah, blah, blah. Same song, different season. ;)

So, for the 1000th time, PLEASE...do as you say and give up. Wait for the DVDs. Do SOMETHING other than make the same complaints (this time preemptively, before even seeing the episode.)

My bet is on a knockout show, more revealing confusion, I love it!

I look forward to continuation of the Henry Gale storyline. If Sun is pregnant though, or anyone else for that matter, it seems like just another iron in the fire. The more storylines there are, the less time any given one will get. That's frustrating. On a local radio show, there were comments of doubt on the longevity of this show, given the fallen ratings. Falling ratings are inevitable, but maybe there will be a silver lining. Perhaps more can be done to move the current stories along, and shaking up the scheduling in some way to diminish the loss of continuity resulting from so many repeats.

Nobody will take you up on that bet...since you've ALWAYS posted how dissappointed you were immediately after a new episode, and how you should just stop watching, blah, blah, blah. Same song, different season. ;)

So, for the 1000th time, PLEASE...do as you say and give up. Wait for the DVDs. Do SOMETHING other than make the same complaints (this time preemptively, before even seeing the episode.)

I honestly hope I'm wrong...I liked the last episode

My bet is on a knockout show, more revealing confusion, I love it! :D "Revealing confusion", I love it too!

I heard on the radio that ratings is down from 18 million at the beginning of the season to 12... most likely because of the reruns.

Does anyone know when the next lost episode is on in the states. I am watching from australia and need my next fix.

Does anyone know when the next lost episode is on in the states. I am watching from australia and need my next fix.

I think it's tonight at 9:00 USA Eastern time. I usually find http://epguides.com/Lost/ to be pretty accurate.

- Tom

Does anyone know when the next lost episode is on in the states. I am watching from australia and need my next fix.

11 hours, 44 minutes and 27 seconds.

I think it's tonight at 9:00 USA Eastern time. I usually find http://epguides.com/Lost/ to be pretty accurate.

- Tom

So, we have four consecutive episodes starting tonight !! Woo hoo !!

I think its pretty sad that I get excited for consecutive episodes.

I think its pretty sad that I get excited for consecutive episodes.Then they wonder why the lose viewers? :mad:

Then they wonder why the lose viewers? :mad:

It's been said before, but it bears "repeating" since it keeps coming up:

There are 22 episodes over a 35 week regular season, with essentially 12 of those 22 reserved for the 3 'sweeps' months of November, February, and May. That leaves 10 new episodes to cover 23 weeks. Do the math; of course there are going to be lots of repeats. :rolleyes:

They could hold it for a January premiere and run it down consecutively, like '24', but ratings-challenged ABC needs all their hits for the November sweeps period. It's a business, and a fairly ruthless one, but sometimes we forget that and think it's supposed to be about "entertainment". How quaint. ;)

If Nielsen's data collection method wasn't so antiquated, we wouldn't need the 3 ratings months. Hopefully they'll accelerate the more automated methods that are able to collect local data year round and we won't have to deal with this system.

Try behaving like a NASCAR fan -- religiously support the advertisers, and ONLY those advertisers, who run ads during Lost. That'll make for some good statistics. "Since we started advertising the Gillette Shredder 12-blade razor during Lost episodes, our sales have increased tenfold! Buy time on that show!"

There are 22 episodes over a 35 week regular season, with essentially 12 of those 22 reserved for the 3 'sweeps' months of November, February, and May. That leaves 10 new episodes to cover 23 weeks. Do the math; of course there are going to be lots of repeats. :rolleyes:
Well then, the networks need to either have a 22 week regular season, or produce 35 episodes for their longer season. :mad:

The concept of "sweeps" needs to go away, in favor of continuous rating values. Setting advertising rates based on special programming that is not representative of what happens during the rest of the season is just plain stupid.

Yeah, I know that that's the way it is...And I also know that that's why television is the bastion of mediocrity that it is...

~Dan

Producers Damon Lindleof and Carlton Cuse addressed the rerun situation on this week's podcast. They essentially echoed what archiguy said. They did state that there will be 24 episodes this season. They also mentioned that it takes about one month to complete one episode and that they pretty much work on the show all year.

It doesn't surprise me that the ratings are down. Lost requires a commitment since it's a continuing story, so if you miss an episode or two you might feel you can't really rejoin. The initial buzz has calmed down, so they probably lose more old viewers than gain new ones.

I was a late joiner, watching season one this winter on DVD to catch up. I enjoy the show, it's better than most series, but I might sit out next year and just wait for the DVD unless some bones are thrown towards resolution.

And I dont' see how the producers can really do that unless they're willing to either a) commit to ending the story at some point or b) resolve this story line somehow and move on to another one.

Well then, the networks need to either have a 22 week regular season, or produce 35 episodes for their longer season. :mad:

The concept of "sweeps" needs to go away, in favor of continuous rating values. Setting advertising rates based on special programming that is not representative of what happens during the rest of the season is just plain stupid.

Yeah, I know that that's the way it is...And I also know that that's why television is the bastion of mediocrity that it is...

~Dan

And the only real impact is at the local level.

Only on the Internet would you have people complaining because there IS a new episode tonight.

Only on the Internet would you have people complaining because there IS a new episode tonight.Sorry you miss the point.. what we are saying here is that they have too many gaps between new episodes...

Rumor has it there will be a "new" episode of "Lost" tonight :)

I read an article recently that said the number of viewers of this series has declined approximately 30% from last year :eek:

Too much "goofing around" with a programs schedule has killed the ratings of more than one good TV show :rolleyes:

Maybe the Sci Fi channel will pick-up "Lost" after ABC signs its death warrant ;)

Oh wait, I forgot... the Sci Fi channel isn't in HD :mad:

Never mind... :D

I read an article recently that said the number of viewers of this series has declined approximately 30% from last year :eek:

Too much "goofing around" with a programs schedule has killed the ratings of more than one good TV show :rolleyes:


I really don't think the schedule holes have much to do with it. They all have those on the Big Four networks (except for '24'). I'm kind of baffled by it, especially when you look at the ratings of much more pedestrian fare like Gray's Anatomy, all the crime procedurals, Desperate Housewives (whose appeal has fallen like a rock this year) and, especially, American Idol. It's almost like there's this vast unspoken conspiracy against quality TV and in favor of bland mediocrity - the more bland and mediocre the better; i.e. higher ratings. :confused:

Producers Damon Lindleof and Carlton Cuse addressed the rerun situation on this week's podcast. They essentially echoed what archiguy said. They did state that there will be 24 episodes this season. They also mentioned that it takes about one month to complete one episode and that they pretty much work on the show all year.


Must be new math.

I really don't think the schedule holes have much to do with it. They all have those on the Big Four networks (except for '24'). I'm kind of baffled by it, especially when you look at the ratings of much more pedestrian fare like Gray's Anatomy, all the crime procedurals, Desperate Housewives (whose appeal has fallen like a rock this year) and, especially, American Idol.

The difference is that shows like Lost, 24, and even Desperate Housewives have serial narratives where one episode's storylines lead into the next episode. So screwing around with the schedule and filling in so many repeats really frustrates viewers trying to follow the story. Many of them have decided that it's easier to just wait for the inevitable DVDs. Fox's strategy of holding off 24 until January and then running a no-breaks schedule has paid off for them in a big way.

Episodes of crime procedurals like CSI, CSI: Miami, CSI: New York, CSI: Buffalo, CSI: Topeka, etc. are generally stand-alone and can be safely watched in any order whether you've been keeping up with the season or not.

I really don't think the schedule holes have much to do with it. They all have those on the Big Four networks (except for '24'). I'm kind of baffled by it, especially when you look at the ratings of much more pedestrian fare like Gray's Anatomy, all the crime procedurals, Desperate Housewives (whose appeal has fallen like a rock this year) and, especially, American Idol. It's almost like there's this vast unspoken conspiracy against quality TV and in favor of bland mediocrity - the more bland and mediocre the better; i.e. higher ratings. :confused:I agree with your observations... I stopped watching DH... no real interest there anymore, Gray's Anatomy... another Hospital show... please :rolleyes: (this does not apply to House :) )

Not too much out there I watch these days... but who cares what a 50-year-old with a six-figure income thinks... hello advertisers!

Lost, BSG, House, Bones, My Name is Earl, The Office, and of course almost all HBO original programming are my current favorites.

I'll be pi$$ed if "Lost" goes the way of many other under-promoted, buried in the prime-time schedule TV shows...

I really don't think the schedule holes have much to do with it. They all have those on the Big Four networks (except for '24'). I'm kind of baffled by it, especially when you look at the ratings of much more pedestrian fare like Gray's Anatomy, all the crime procedurals, Desperate Housewives (whose appeal has fallen like a rock this year) and, especially, American Idol. It's almost like there's this vast unspoken conspiracy against quality TV and in favor of bland mediocrity - the more bland and mediocre the better; i.e. higher ratings. :confused:

Well, when a Sony 32" XBR (or something similarly not so cutting-edge) is too advanced a television for the Neilsen box to be installed - it's not hard to imagine that the ratings are heavily skewed towards the opinions of people not that "into" television.

Well, when a Sony 32" XBR (or something similarly not so cutting-edge) is too advanced a television for the Neilsen box to be installed - it's not hard to imagine that the ratings are heavily skewed towards the opinions of people not that "into" television.

Ahhh, so that's the reason the Neilsen folks have never called on me to serve! (First HD display was the one you referenced; now have a 34XBR910. :) )

I'm talking about an SDTV. I think most televisions less than 8 or 9 years old are too advanced for Nielsen installation. :rolleyes:

I'm talking about an SDTV. I think most televisions less than 8 or 9 years old are too advanced for Nielsen installation. :rolleyes:

A year or so ago, the Nielsen technicians stopped by to install their monitoring equipment on my (then) Sony WEGA 36". They spent about an hour looking at their tech manual and made several calls to their tech support before giving up and saying that the Sony was just "too advanced" for what they had in mind.

I assume if they came today and saw the Mits. 55" HDTV they wouldn't even bother.

Before they left, one of they guys confessed that their favorite install was the 25" TV, where the owner also had a VCR blinking "12:00" the whole time. I don't think he was joking. :eek:

> They did state that there will be 24 episodes this season.
> They also mentioned that it takes about one month to complete
> one episode

Must be new math.

Why? An auto factory can turn out a new car every minute. That doesn't mean it only takes a minute to build a car.

For a television show, there's script-writing, rehersal, filming, editing, sound effects, etc. These things don't happen concurrently...

~Dan

Why? An auto factory can turn out a new car every minute. That doesn't mean it only takes a minute to build a car.

For a television show, there's script-writing, rehersal, filming, editing, sound effects, etc. These things don't happen concurrently...

~Dan

And you forgot reading the AVS Lost forum to see what to write in the first place :D

Why? An auto factory can turn out a new car every minute. That doesn't mean it only takes a minute to build a car.

Whatever. If they complete, turn out, make, create, etc., 24 episodes in a one year period, and it takes one month to complete, turn out, make, create, one episode, Thats new math to me. I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Must be new math.

Great callback to #13645! You're paying attention!

<belly laughs>

A year or so ago, the Nielsen technicians stopped by to install their monitoring equipment on my (then) Sony WEGA 36". They spent about an hour looking at their tech manual and made several calls to their tech support before giving up and saying that the Sony was just "too advanced" for what they had in mind.

I assume if they came today and saw the Mits. 55" HDTV they wouldn't even bother.

Before they left, one of they guys confessed that their favorite install was the 25" TV, where the owner also had a VCR blinking "12:00" the whole time. I don't think he was joking. :eek:

I SWEAR I've read this post some earlier time this year...Have you told this story before?

Whatever. If they complete, turn out, make, create, etc., 24 episodes in a one year period, and it takes one month to complete, turn out, make, create, one episode, Thats new math to me. I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Ok.

Pay attention.

I'm only going to go over this once.

It will be on the test :)

Let's assume it takes 4 weeks to make an episode. Let's further assume that there are four tasks (Writing, Filming, Sound and Visual Effects, and Final Editing) and each task takes 1 week.

Let's also assume that the 24 episodes run consecutively, without breaks for sweeps and the holidays.

The chart below shows the production schedule required to get out a new episode each week (the first broadcast at the end of week 4, of course).

http://ferrarishields.com/prodschd.gif

So, as you can see, from start to finish, it takes 27 weeks to make and broadcast 24 episodes.

Any questions?

~Dan, the New Math man!

I SWEAR I've read this post some earlier time this year...Have you told this story before?

It was a rerun. You see, there are 52 weeks that I post on the forum, but I only have ideas for 26 of them so...... :D



(p.s. yes)

That story should be told every time a decent show falls victim to the ratings system.

My "favorite" quote from today is archiguy's:

It's a business, and a fairly ruthless one, but sometimes we forget that and think it's supposed to be about "entertainment". How quaint.

It is unfortunately all too true.

It seems like the only time the networks care about the viewers is during sweeps months. Then they will do anything they can to get us to watch. Once we have be "used" for their benefit, they can go back to their normal behavior of cancelling shows in mid-plot without regard to us. They never call. They never write (I'm still waiting for the promised extended finale of "American Dreams". Yeah. Right.

Oh well, enough of this. New episode in 1/2 hour. Can't wait to see if we re-play the preview scene between Locke and Anna Lucia backwards Locke really says, "I buried Walt." (or was it "Have you any water buffalo?").

yo know whats sad? I honestly don't remember what happened this season...thats not a good sign

It was a rerun. You see, there are 52 weeks that I post on the forum, but I only have ideas for 26 of them so...... :D



(p.s. yes)

(Guinness in hand...) BRILLIANT!!

It seems like the only time the networks care about the viewers is during sweeps months. Then they will do anything they can to get us to watch. Once we have be "used" for their benefit, they can go back to their normal behavior of cancelling shows in mid-plot without regard to us.

Hunh! Next thing you're gonna tell me is that a newspaper company's customers are its advertisers, and that readers are the product being sold to them. Or, sillier yet, movies are made so that I notice the can of Coke or box of Frosted Flakes Will Smith is eating, and go buy some. C'mon, man! Urban legends!

mmm That was nice, but I hope this isn't another character development episode without any advancement of the island timeline plot

yo know whats sad? I honestly don't remember what happened this season...thats not a good sign
No it's not... Definitely a sign it's time you should cut back alright.....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/bud_02.jpg




ron

No it's not... Definitely a sign it's time you should cut back alright.....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/bud_02.jpg




ron


here it comes....Sawyer has a pregnancy test....how ridiculous can this get...

someone has the high beams on :D

here it comes....Sawyer has a pregnancy test....how ridiculous can this get...

Ha! Thank you, Kate!! "I mean, why would anyone travel with one of those?!"

(or to that effect...)

They DO read this forum!! Heh...

someone has the high beams on :D

Like a midget's thumbs...

Ha! Thank you, Kate!! "I mean, why would anyone travel with one of those?!"

(or to that effect...)

The DO read this forum!! Heh...

haha or have common sense...it still didn't explain who was traveling one...Sun certainly wouldn't if she KNEW she couldn't get pregnant...honestly, Lost has pretty much jumped the shark...why is Ana-Lucia so willing to go adventuring through the jungle now? doesn't make any sense

OK..what in the heck did they say backwards?

Any questions?

~Dan, the New Math man!


Yeah. Do you do parties?

"Then it's a miracle"

Oh wow that was such an easy line to predict, it was fun :)

"Then it's a miracle"

Oh wow that was such an easy line to predict, it was fun :)

this whole episode has been predictable...taking bets on them finding the balloon? I'm guessing they will...

this whole episode has been predictable......

oh you mean like how they said "It's about to rain"

My bet is the baloon plot doesn't get finished in this ep....

Miracle my eye....looks like she was chummy with her english teacher.

Whatever. If they complete, turn out, make, create, etc., 24 episodes in a one year period, and it takes one month to complete, turn out, make, create, one episode, Thats new math to me. I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.
The point is, they can do multiple tasks at one time. They are writing, shooting and editing all at once. It was reported they usually shoot two or more episodes at a time when in one particular location. However, from initial writing to final post, that episode takes a month to be finished. However, they are probably churning out a few each month with all the simultaneous work going on.

Okay, I know Sun's pregnancy test was from Widmore Labs. Widmore Labs is a clue, but I'm not yet fully aware why. Widmore is a corporate name from other earlier flashbacks. I only found one link on Google when I searched "Widmore Labs". I won't bother with the link, you'll find it. Anyone with more info, share?

Nice view from the hotel with Sun and old boyfriend. Was that Godzilla I seen in the background?

My bet is the baloon plot doesn't get finished in this ep....


heh :)

But that was some pretty fun mind twisting by the guy

god I hate this show (I mean that positively)...I should only watch the previews...

arg...always something better and cooler around the next episode...at least we don't have to wait

oh yeah, and I think Henry is the forum spokesperson...

"AREN'T YOU CURIOUS ABOUT ANY OF THIS"

jesus christ, took the words out of my mouth

For those of you wizards out there -- any relevance to the number on the cereal box? I didn't catch all the characters, but there was an R or two in there, so it isn't hex. I saw the F's and thought hex almost by rote.

For those of you wizards out there -- any relevance to the number on the cereal box? I didn't catch all the characters, but there was an R or two in there, so it isn't hex. I saw the F's and thought hex almost by rote.

I'll go back and look at my DVRed copy during the commercial of Heist

"AREN'T YOU CURIOUS ABOUT ANY OF THIS"
Dude, I don't get it....


;)

what cereal was he eating.. Dharma O's ? .

Guys my DVR cut to another channel right when Henry was suggesting it cpuld be a trap. What happened after that?

Tell me Gale isn't playing them.

Dude, I don't get it....


;)

When they let Henry out, he asked what the computers were for and a couple of other questions. When Locke and Jack couldn't really answer, he said "aren't you curious about any of this?", corresponding to what we've been saying here for some time now.

Tell me Gale isn't playing them.

He's playing them. Awful 'ballsy' for someone beaten up as badly as he was. Stay tuned!

You know, even if they find a balloon, it doesn't necessarily mean it was HIS.

Okay, I know Sun's pregnancy test was from Widmore Labs. Widmore Labs is a clue, but I'm not yet fully aware why. Widmore is a corporate name from other earlier flashbacks. I only found one link on Google when I searched "Widmore Labs". I won't bother with the link, you'll find it. Anyone with more info, share?
Was it this one?:

http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/one-of-them

There's some speculation on there, but real spoilers.

You know, even if they find a balloon, it doesn't necessarily mean it was HIS.

Exactly. I think he knows the island and came upon it at some point. But will they find the grave?

haha or have common sense...it still didn't explain who was traveling one...Sun certainly wouldn't if she KNEW she couldn't get pregnant...honestly, Lost has pretty much jumped the shark...why is Ana-Lucia so willing to go adventuring through the jungle now? doesn't make any sense

As we find out later, it was Jin who couldn't impregnate. Ana-Lucia was willing as a favor to Locke (and possibly ego-driven for being asked), but I believe in a greater sense because it gives her a way to make amends for the death of the first guy in her pit. She more or less says so to Henry, "I don't make the same mistake twice."

When they let Henry out, he asked what the computers were for and a couple of other questions. When Locke and Jack couldn't really answer, he said "aren't you curious about any of this?", corresponding to what we've been saying here for some time now.
Note the smiley. I was joking since that seems to be the biggest source of complaint is that no one ever asks any questions on the show.

Was it this one?:

http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/one-of-them

There's some speculation on there, but real spoilers.

No, but it points out a reference to Widmore Construction. I thought there might be more. Where else in Lost has Widmore appeared? What was the name of Sun's father's company?

Exactly. I think he knows the island and came upon it at some point. But will they find the grave?

Well, the further your own point, he may know of the balloon AND the grave, but not be associated with either. So all it validates is that he knew they were there, not that he's innocent. Further down the rabbit hole if you want to buy into this.

<potential spoiler clipped...sorry!>

Was it this one?:

http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/one-of-them

There's some speculation on there, but real spoilers.

And more about 'Widmore'.

Note the smiley. I was joking since that seems to be the biggest source of complaint is that no one ever asks any questions on the show.

Missed the Smiley!

The cereal box says
"DI 9FFTR731"
And "DHARMA" underneath it

no idea what the hell that means

And more about 'Widmore'.

Someone beat me to this.

The cereal box says
"DI 9FFTR731"
And "DHARMA" underneath it

no idea what the hell that means

Decoded, it means "packaged by weight, not by volume. Some settling may occur." Either that, or "Drink More Ovaltine".

But seriously...anything?

Regardless, I think Dharma branded cereal is just about the coolest. I think it looked like Honeycombs. Maybe a cast member was one of the original Honeycombs Hideout kids. <smirk>

No, but it points out a reference to Widmore Construction. I thought there might be more. Where else in Lost has Widmore appeared? What was the name of Sun's father's company?
Well, the guy on that BLOG mentioned a potential tie-in with the fact that Michael did some construction....

Oh yeah, a road of the the same name kept popping up in Google - in Thailand.

Well, the guy on that BLOG mentioned a potential tie-in with the fact that Michael did some construction....

Oh yeah, a road of the the same name kept popping up in Google - in Thailand.

From some other website:
"Last couple of podcasts, the producers talked about the building in
the background after Charlie walks out of the soundstage where the
commercial was being filmed. The producers said to watch for an
Easter Egg (the name on the building). This week they said it was
hard to see, but it had a “Widmore Construction” on it. They didn’t
say what it meant, but they said to write it down and watch for it."

I have corroborated this in multiple websites.

So, Widmore is a conglomerate, or front company for Dharma perhaps. I hate to be like this, but another forum post said the balloon will say Widmore on it also. We'll see next week!

Wow, I read the Lost diary on the ABC website. I don't know what to comment about it. Better you read it for yourself:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/diary/105169.html

Well who knows if the "others" really are the "others" or if there are some other "others" other than the "others?" :D

Why are you posting spoilers in this thread? How many times do people need to be told that there's a separate thread for spoilers?

Apparently, one more time :o
However, next week's preview more or less stated it. I'll edit myself, but you'll have to edit my quote in your post...

Well who knows if the "others" really are the "others" or if there are some other "others" other than the "others?" :D

Right! The spooky disembodied voices!

wow the next EP looks awesome, the find the baloon and looks like the countdown finally intiates the "lockdown"

Exactly. I think he knows the island and came upon it at some point. But will they find the grave?

I think they very easily could find the grave. Gale probably made up that story because he KNEW there was a balloon there and he KNEW there was a woman buried there. Finding those things means NOTHING! If they think it proves he not an "other" they're really stupid.

Anyone care to recap the last 20 minutes - after Sayid says it wasn't Anna that killed Shannon, it was The Others and if Henry ends up being one, something will have to be done. Someone stopped the Tivo! :eek:

Someone stopped the Tivo! :eek:

Is it them :eek: ?? Is it them :eek: ??

Is it them :eek: ?? Is it them :eek: ??

NO! WORSE! It was my 6 year old! :eek: :eek:

wow the next EP looks awesome, the find the baloon and looks like the countdown finally intiates the "lockdown"
I'm wondering if Henry has something to do with causing the lockdown.

Wow, I read the Lost diary on the ABC website. I don't know what to comment about it. Better you read it for yourself:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/diary/105169.html


what the crap? that doesn't make any sense at all...

On our Comcast DVR, the dialog completely dropped out from when Jack went into the "cell" to bring Gale out to when Gale asked about the age of the cereal. I'm not good enough at reading lips so I wondered if someone would be so kind as to post that dialog. Anyone?

Thanks!

Wow. No comments on what Jin heard from Sawyer and the african american lady's husband in their conversation. That's a shocker! I'm surprised nobody recorded it and played it backwards as it obviously sounded like something recorded in reverse. I had WTF moment right there as I thought my equipment was playing tricks on me!

Good episode tonight, and it really shined when "the other" was eating cereal. His lines were great!

Next week looks good too!

Anyone care to recap the last 20 minutes - after Sayid says it wasn't Anna that killed Shannon, it was The Others and if Henry ends up being one, something will have to be done. Someone stopped the Tivo! :eek:

They reach the spot on the map but don't find anything. Sayid is ready to go back and pop Henry, but AL says they need to be sure, so they split up to do a more thorough search.

Meanwhile, back at the hatch, Jack lets Henry out and invites him to breakfast with him and Locke. Henry spots the electronics and asks what they are for. Jack says "Dunno". Henry says "you people don't ask a lot of questions, do you". Henry then happens to mention the map and the expedition that AL, Sayid and Charlie (who suddenly is back in everyone's good grace????) are on. Jack and Locke look shocked at the news. Henry mentions the "trust issues" in the group.

He then casually mentions that if he WERE an other, he'd send the three on a wild goose chase to an area where his people could ambush the group, and use them to trade for him. He then gives one of "those" looks and suggests he, of course, is just joking.

Oh yeah, Sun is preggers, though not by Jin who, um, apparently can only fire blanks. She says she's never been with another man (she especially does not mention the rich guy she was meeting secretly in a hotel room to "just" learn English). Jin happily says, "then it's a miracle!" Can't wait to see Mr. Eko's reaction when he finds out he has his own Virgin Sun on the island.

Wow. No comments on what Jin heard from Sawyer and the african american lady's husband in their conversation. That's a shocker! I'm surprised nobody recorded it and played it backwards as it obviously sounded like something recorded in reverse. I had WTF moment right there as I thought my equipment was playing tricks on me!

When they were talking about Sun being pregnant? They were just showing us how Jin didn't understand what they were saying, it was jibberish to him...then when he makes up with Sun and she says almost everyone knows about her being pregnant he clicks on the meaning of the word "Daddy-o".

oh yeah, and I think Henry is the forum spokesperson...

"AREN'T YOU CURIOUS ABOUT ANY OF THIS"

jesus christ, took the words out of my mouth
Amen, I don't care who the guy turns out to be, he's my hero, the rest of these people act as if they've had lobotomies in the curiosity area of their brains.

The only problem with tivoing is there are three pages to catch up on 4 hours later. This bunch was jonesen' for a new episode.

When they were talking about Sun being pregnant? They were just showing us how Jin didn't understand what they were saying, it was jibberish to him...then when he makes up with Sun and she says almost everyone knows about her being pregnant he clicks on the meaning of the word "Daddy-o".

That's right. They were showing how disorienting and difficult it is for Jin not to be able to understand what everybody else is saying; I suspect Sawyer and Bernard were speaking Korean there. Later having Jin break down and confess to Sun how tough it is for him represents something of a breakthrough for him, as it must be terribly difficult for him to show any weakness, especially to his wife. And we've now seen that the Island can "cure" fertility issues (it wants another baby since Claire got hers back...?) as well as paralysis.

Another great line was when Locke told AL he wanted Gale out of his (not "their") hatch.

And we've now seen that the Island can "cure" fertility issues (it wants another baby since Claire got hers back...?) as well as paralysis.

Another great line was when Locke told AL he wanted Gale out of his (not "their") hatch.

An affair could be inferred between Sun and her teacher, but so could a one-sided confession of love from him. That makes more sense to me, because if they were having an affair, she wouldn't be so oblivious to him. He didn't know why she was learning English, she was somewhat formal with him, and he was the one moving toward her, about to offer himself as a reason for her to stay. Sun isn't a casual affair type of person. She would have given some clue earlier if she had already been with him. We didn't see what happened next -- deliberately. Finally, we already know she stayed with Jin even up to the moment she was going to trick him and leave at the airport, which she didn't end up doing. Whatever her teacher may have said to her, it was ineffective -- she continued her pre-planned course.

While I do also wonder why Locke called it his hatch, I do see his point. He discovered it, he was the one insisting they stay and continue inputting the codes, he learned how to change the lock on the armory, advocated using the armory as such. He has been most involved with its use. He's also more emotionally involved with the island and its great purpose for each one of them. I don't think it is a stretch to say he sees it as his hatch, but without any conspiracy involved.

OK..what in the heck did they say backwards?Don't worry about it. It's the same way it sounds to your dog despite your attempts to speak clearly and plainly.

:D

Originally Posted by Rakesh.S
Why are you posting spoilers in this thread? How many times do people need to be told that there's a separate thread for spoilers?

Another post apparently arbitrarily deleted by the powers that be that we didn't get to see.

Wow. No comments on what Jin heard from Sawyer and the african american lady's husband in their conversation. That's a shocker! I'm surprised nobody recorded it and played it backwards as it obviously sounded like something recorded in reverse. I had WTF moment right there as I thought my equipment was playing tricks on me!

I think it was simply meant to portray what they sounded like to Jin's ears as he doesn't understand English, but someone will surely play it backwards and give us a report!

Oh yeah, Sun is preggers, though not by Jin who, um, apparently can only fire blanks. She says she's never been with another man (she especially does not mention the rich guy she was meeting secretly in a hotel room to "just" learn English). Jin happily says, "then it's a miracle!" Can't wait to see Mr. Eko's reaction when he finds out he has his own Virgin Sun on the island.

Will we find out that Sun isn't all that innocent in that she killed (or had someone kill, through her father) her english "teacher" and is outright lying to Jin? We know there is a common thread running through Lost in that many of the characters have killed somebody.

Miracle my eye....looks like she was chummy with her english teacher.


Yeah...something fishy there.

But I'm not sure it was hotel boy who knocked her up. They've been on the island 3 months. I'm no expert, but shouldn't she have been experiencing symptoms after a month or so (or even less)?

If she's less than 3 months pregs than it was someone on the island (or Dharma working their mojo in stealth mode). She and Jin got it on when he got back, but that's only been a week in island time (per Ana Lucia).

Good episode tonight, and it really shined when "the other" was eating cereal. His lines were great!

Next week looks good too!


Yeah...even if he's not an Other he's an a-hole. But fun to watch :-)

Ok,

So as my girl and I were starting up LOST (we usually wait until 20 min in, then catch up via commercial skipping), I realized I wasn't as pumped as I normally am when a new ep of LOST is on. I even confessed this to her, and she agreed.

Then we watched the ep and now I'm pumped again for next week. But last year that wouldn't have happened. :-(

Yeah...something fishy there.

But I'm not sure it was hotel boy who knocked her up. They've been on the island 3 months. I'm no expert, but shouldn't she have been experiencing symptoms after a month or so (or even less)?

If she's less than 3 months pregs than it was someone on the island (or Dharma working their mojo in stealth mode). She and Jin got it on when he got back, but that's only been a week in island time (per Ana Lucia).

Haven't they been on the island around 60 to 70 days max?

I think the baby was conceived on the island - as someone else mentioned, the timing is not right for her symptoms to just be starting and her be 8-9 weeks pregnant... Maybe, if she got with baldy the day before their flight to Australia (and how long were they in australia - that could add a couple of weeks to her last possible encounter with baldy). So, whether it's Jin's or not - I think it was defineately conceived on the island. Perhaps (again, someone else suggested) it's another effect of the island.. Perhaps it makes people hyper fertile, so everyone who gets busy will get knocked-up!

Uh Oh.......maybe Walt will have a new sibling! LOL

Ok,

So as my girl and I were starting up LOST (we usually wait until 20 min in, then catch up via commercial skipping), I realized I wasn't as pumped as I normally am when a new ep of LOST is on. I even confessed this to her, and she agreed.

Then we watched the ep and now I'm pumped again for next week. But last year that wouldn't have happened. :-(Same here... while "Lost" is still my favorite TV show... it's suffering from a lack of continuity. ABC should take a look at how FOX schedules its shows (e.g. 24 / AI), CBS w/Survivor, Sci Fi w/BSG and HBO with its original programming.

Gone are the days when a Network can drag out 22 episodes over ~40 weeks and make that work.

I'm talking about an SDTV. I think most televisions less than 8 or 9 years old are too advanced for Nielsen installation. :rolleyes:
So we get programming that is based on the viewing habits of Ma and Pa Kettle watching their 19" RCA with a clicker? :confused:

Does this mean Matlock and Murder She wrote are poised for a comeback? :eek:

An affair could be inferred between Sun and her teacher,
Just after the scene in the Dr's. Office, my wife ask me if I remembered Sun taking BC pills in an earlier flashback. I didn't remember it, but she seem pretty convinced she had seen it.

So if Sun was on BC, she could have been having an affair with the teacher. But on the island, she would not need them as Jin was shooting banks.

Same here... while "Lost" is still my favorite TV show... it's suffering from a lack of continuity. ABC should take a look at how FOX schedules its shows (e.g. 24 / AI), CBS w/Survivor, Sci Fi w/BSG and HBO with its original programming.
What is up with CBS and Survivor? Last year they ran episodes on Wed during the tournament. This year they gave us a retrospective and then skipped a week. :(

Less than impressed this week. Could someone explain why Hurley can't go on a diet? It is rather stupid to keep saying he has a stash in the jungle. Damn just make the tub of lard lose some weight or he loses his job.

Ericglo

Oh yeah, Sun is preggers, though not by Jin who, um, apparently can only fire blanks. She says she's never been with another man (she especially does not mention the rich guy she was meeting secretly in a hotel room to "just" learn English). Jin happily says, "then it's a miracle!"
One thing to keep in mind is the nanobot theory and how it cures people. That nanobots somehow were able to cure Locke of his paralysis, and may now have been able to cure Jin of his infertility. Maybe that's what this island is all about, a utopian society where physical ailments can be cured. Just something to keep in mind.

As for Sun having an affair with the hotel owner's son, last night's episode didn't give any good clues one way or another whether or not she had an affair. To me, the bald guy made subtle advances toward Sun, but she did not seem interested.

I think Sun is pregnant by Jin from when he got back from the raft trip, even if it has only been one week. If it was the hotel owner's son who got Sun pregnant, that would have been at least 2-1/2 to 5 months ago, considering Jin and Sun first flew from Korea to Austrailia and then were going on to Los Angeles. If Sun were pregnant by baldy, she would have had symptoms before now. But symptoms after only 1 week are a little premature also, so that still leaves it up in the air.

On another note, interesting how Charlie had a gun, obviously from his little pact with Sawyer. Can't wait til next week!

Just after the scene in the Dr's. Office, my wife ask me if I remembered Sun taking BC pills in an earlier flashback. I didn't remember it, but she seem pretty convinced she had seen it.

So if Sun was on BC, she could have been having an affair with the teacher. But on the island, she would not need them as Jin was shooting banks.


Would be a good thing to research. I thought Sun's face expressions while Jin was hugging her was concerning. Like she was thinking of something she wasn't telling him (like the English Teacher). But then she smiled at the end...like she thought about things, then was a peace with her decision not to tell him how she really got pregnant.

On another note, interesting how Charlie had a gun, obviously from his little pact with Sawyer. Can't wait til next week!

I wondered why AL or Sayid didn't comment on that. "Hey, Charlie. How the heck did you get that gun. Sawyer has control of all the guns". Yet again, Everyone is off in La La land and won't ask questions.

Wonder what their response would be to: Do you walk to school or take your lunch?