i liked the Tallahassee reference by Sawyer. it made me proud

Better be no bitchin' about the slow storyline. Tonight's episode had plenty of beef - and more evidence that Locke's Dad may be the real Sawyer.

I hadn't considered that before, but it makes some sense. Buy why would mob guys be after him if the real Sawyer goes after unsuspecting rich women? (Though maybe he branches out at times to other cons)

Great episode! Nice twist ending. :eek:

The first thing I thought when I saw the food was that it was positive reinforcement for being able to retain the countdown...gives more credit to the psychological theories

holy crap, good episode, Henry f'n Gale. notice the pattern here everyone locke trusts is a liar and turns on him. wtf was on the wall someone get a black light. Oh yea 2 things: 1. that was nadia (sayid's gf) buying the house 2. Those were oceanic flights swooping down at the motel. anyone think locke lossing his legs becuase of the stereotypical mob guys. "ill break his legs" great episode, hurley next week i think it might be alittle more into his crazy house time

Hey, you know these guys don't like spoilers. And they don't read other sites.
;)

And the question mark?
Good question. Wish they made the text more legible. All I can make out is accident on the bottom.

i liked the Tallahassee reference by Sawyer. it made me proud

Why, did you get the clap too?

http://lax.war3.com/door.jpg

rehosted on my webspace, just in case

THAT looks like a lot of work...looks like it took a LONG time to do...

The first thing I thought when I saw the food was that it was positive reinforcement for being able to retain the countdown...gives more credit to the psychological theories
I don't know....

I think the drop was already in progress and the lockdown was to keep people in the hatch confined during the drop. It could be any reason from not wanting the button pushers to see the drop to not wanting them to be accidently crushed by it.

I hadn't considered that before, but it makes some sense. Buy why would mob guys be after him if the real Sawyer goes after unsuspecting rich women? (Though maybe he branches out at times to other cons)

Great episode! Nice twist ending. :eek:

Well, he could have duped the wife of a mob boss. :eek:

And the question mark?

Perhaps the map was drawn by an explorer, a newcomer to the island, like Desmond. It was drawn as he discovered hatches, etc. The question mark may allude to not knowing where the central control location is, the headquarters.

I don't know....

I think the drop was already in progress and the lockdown was to keep people in the hatch confined during the drop.

And the people outside the hatch?

Good question. Wish they made the text more legible. All I can make out is accident on the bottom.

Says "inactive once accident"

And note the "I am here" pointing to The Swan. Obvious enough -- the artist WAS in the Swan.

And the people outside the hatch?

yeah, why would they be outside the hatch anyways? Desmond looked pretty secure in there...I don't think that huge thing had been sitting there since the begining...well we did see the ground open up with the Black smoke...so maybe it came from underground...?

think of that phrase like "Escape the Hatch". Let's say you no longer want to be part of an experiment, or there is some other emergency, leaving thru the escape hatch takes you to the central location where you can find help, first aid, whatever.

Why, did you get the clap too?

haha, i want to know more about Jack's asian past. for some reason i picture him playing Russian Roulette

Says "inactive once accident"

All of it says:

"POSSIBLE CVII
-INACTIVE SINCE ACCIDENT"

CVII is printed in one of the boxes above.

Once again I have to say, these writers are incredible!

haha, i want to know more about Jack's asian past. for some reason i picture him playing Russian Roulette

Deer Hunter.

Says "inactive once accident"

And note the "I am here" pointing to The Swan. Obvious enough -- the artist WAS in the Swan.

Inactive SINCE accident. And the CVII reference is the same as for the Swan Hatch...

All of it says:

"POSSIBLE CVII
-INACTIVE ONCE ACCIDENT"

CVII is in one of the boxes above.

Once again I have to say, these writers are incredible!

So, "The Incident" was an accident of some kind, and it affected the access and usage of the hatches.

Inactive SINCE accident...

I think you're right. I'll change my post.

Inactive SINCE accident. And the CVII reference is the same as for the Swan Hatch...

And looking closer, do you see in white the tunnels, or caves, or boundaries running within the map?

So any speculation about what CVII means or stands for? And there's also CVI, CVIII and CVIV.

And the people outside the hatch?

Who cares? Fewer people in quarantine if any of them get squashed. Desmond (or whoever) shoots up and gets his loot and blows away anyone that messes with it.

Holy cow, this is great TV.

not having very good luck cleaning it up in CS2...Noise Ninja can't even clean it up

anybody having any lcuk?

Dang it.. my 622 cut off the tail end of the show. The last I saw was where Sayed was saying, "It was all there. The whole story, your alibi. It was all true. Still, I did not beleive it to be true, so I dug up the..." What happened after that?

Thanks.

Sean Dudley

So any speculation about what CVII means or stands for? And there's also CVI, CVIII and CVIV.
CVII is 107 in Roman numberals.

Who cares? Fewer people in quarantine if any of them get squashed. Desmond (or whoever) shoots up and gets his loot and blows away anyone that messes with it.

I was referring to the line in the post that said:

"I think the drop was already in progress and the lockdown was to keep people in the hatch confined during the drop."

Holy cow, this is great TV.

'Interactive' TV at that, isn't it.

Dang it.. my 622 cut off the tail end of the show. The last I saw was where Sayed was saying, "It was all there. The whole story, your alibi. It was all true. Still, I did not beleive it to be true, so I dug up the..." What happened after that?

Thanks.

Sean Dudley

He dug up the grave and found not a woman but a man. And the man's name was Henry Gale (shows a driver's license of a black man with that name).

not having very good luck cleaning it up in CS2...Noise Ninja can't even clean it up

anybody having any lcuk?

Gotta send it to the CSI lab!

He dug up the grave and found not a woman but a man. And the man's name was Henry Gale (shows a driver's license of a black man with his name).

I knew the part I missed was important. Thanks!

Dang it.. my 622 cut off the tail end of the show. The last I saw was where Sayed was saying, "It was all there. The whole story, your alibi. It was all true. Still, I did not beleive it to be true, so I dug up the..." What happened after that?

Thanks.

Sean Dudley

Don't you just HATE IT when that happens? :D

I'm guessing CV are the hatches. It's a possible location for a seventh bunker. Or maybe not. We'll find out in a couple of seasons.

And it was a nice close up of Locke's eye. Very reminiscent of the opening scenes to Season 1.

CVII is 107 in Roman numberals.

I was thinking as in CV2.

CV are the hatches. It's a possible location for a seventh bunker.

But what does CV stand for?

Complex within an octagon
4 of 6 hatches have names
4 of 6 hatches drawn in solid lines, while 2 are drawn in dashed lines
paths/tunnels/roads drawn throughout the complex
straight lines connecting 5 of 6 hatches -- data or comm network?
The Swan is surrounded by CVI, CVII and CVIII

4 of 6 hatches drawn in solid lines, while 2 are drawn in dashed lines

One of the dashed ones is labeled "CA?" but can't make out the other one.

The plane that flew over Locke's head had an Oceanic Airlines logo on it.

Regarding Hurley going nuts in the next ep preview, he is the one who has been munching the most of the Dharma food. Wonder if that stuff has some extra kick to it.

Danielle's original science party could have perhaps found one of these air drops and eaten some of it, which might have made them go nutty.

I think the blast doors were triggered accidentally rather than in response to the air drop. The reason is because of the static audio announcement before they went down - it seems like the systems there may be degrading and having intermittent issues. The plumbing going bad is another symptom of decay.

Remember Desmond injecting himself?
Someone on another site posted that his bottle read
"CR 4-81516-23 42"
Has that been covered here before?

Yup, went back and checked this forum -- sorry.

...The plumbing going bad is another symptom of decay.

I took it that Jack was lying about the plumbing to keep Kate out of the hatch.

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/galeLicense.jpg

no idea if this has any significance

One of the dashed ones is labeled "CA?" but can't make out the other one.
I believe it's CVIV...CV4. Now I'm thinking it's CV2 instead of 107 because CVIV doesn't make any sense as a numeral.

The plumbing going bad is another symptom of decay.

Jack just said that to Kate to keep her out of the hatch so she doesn't find out about Henry.

Jack just said that to Kate to keep her out of the hatch so she doesn't find out about Henry.

woops...that didn't last long

I think the blast doors were triggered accidentally rather than in response to the air drop. The reason is because of the static audio announcement before they went down - it seems like the systems there may be degrading and having intermittent issues. The plumbing going bad is another symptom of decay.

On further reflection it would make the most sense to be a combination of the two things.

First could have been an audio announcement, announcing that an air drop was incoming. As part of this we could barely hear part of a countdown. Perhaps as part of the air drop procedure, the blast doors come down automatically.

The reason for this would be to keep one of the men inside quarantined, while the other one stays out by the "front door" and goes out into the outside world. The blast doors would provide an extra layer of quarantine just in case the guy going outside messes up somehow.

Then after a set period of time the doors come back up? So maybe entering in the numbers didn't trigger them to come back up immediately, as "Gale" claimed. The numbers system may be unrelated to the blast doors in this case.

I took it that Jack was lying about the plumbing to keep Kate out of the hatch.

Duh. Yep you're right. We just saw him getting a shower the other day.

Google Map of address.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=walnut+ridge+rd,+55391

The town is real but the street isn't there.

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/galeLicense.jpg

no idea if this has any significance

Am I reading it right that it expired in 2003?

Duh. Yep you're right. We just saw him getting a shower the other day.

Right. They just put the part in tonight about Kate wanting to get a shower just to get us guys all hot and bothered with...with...anticipation..

Am I reading it right that it expired in 2003?
Looks that way.

The bunker's seem to be as follows:
Bottom: Swan.

Left: Neptune. With the logo of Neptune riding a seahorse.
Medial hatch above that with the medical logo and therpy written beneath that.
Some scratched out hatch.

Right: Arrow at the top.
Other two I can't figure out. One has a question mark next to its symbol though.

I agree with all the "great ep" comments. Excellent all the way thru. Next week looks to be very interesting as well. Looks like at least some appearance by Mr Eko (from the previews).

I believe it's CVIV...CV4. Now I'm thinking it's CV2 instead of 107 because CVIV doesn't make any sense as a numeral.

Could be, I agree CVIV is not a proper roman numeral.

But what would CV stand for? Can we learn anything by the shape they are drawn on the map? They look rectangular, and appear to be separate (but nearby) from the Swan hatch rather than directly part of it?

Looks that way.

By the way, is the series stuck in 2004?

The bunker's seem to be as follows:
...Some scratched out hatch.

That's interesting. Closed? Never built? Destroyed?

The bunker's seem to be as follows:
Bottom: Swan.

Left: Neptune. With the logo of Neptune riding a seahorse.
Medial hatch above that with the medical logo and therpy written beneath that.
Some scratched out hatch.

Right: Arrow at the top.
Other two I can't figure out. One has a question mark next to its symbol though.

The arrow hatch was the empty one the tail folks found, right?

So the only one we haven't seen is Neptune.

Regarding Hurley going nuts in the next ep preview, he is the one who has been munching the most of the Dharma food. Wonder if that stuff has some extra kick to it.He finally snaps and kicks some. Bout time. I thought he was gonna rip Sawyer in the ep they were trying to catch that tree frog. One insult too many, I guess.

Could be, I agree CVIV is not a proper roman numeral.

But what would CV stand for? Can we learn anything by the shape they are drawn on the map? They look rectangular, and appear to be separate (but nearby) from the Swan hatch rather than directly part of it?

If we were playing Myst, I would guess Control Valve

That's interesting. Closed? Never built? Destroyed?
No clue, it's not one we've ever seen before.

We already know Hurley was in the nut house for awhile. Why, we don't know. How nuts was he? We don't know. However, in the preview, he claims to see someone run thru the jungle that no one else sees. Hallucination? Someone he recognizes, like when Jack saw his dad? Hurley's own "black horse"?

I was referring to the line in the post that said:

"I think the drop was already in progress and the lockdown was to keep people in the hatch confined during the drop."
Exactly. You keep the people inside you care about. The infected ones don't matter.

If we were playing Myst, I would guess Control Valve


LOL, Lost really does remind me of Myst...god taht game was amazing...I remember being amazed everytime I played it...really made you think

I was also thinking it meant "Control..." something...

That's interesting. Closed? Never built? Destroyed?

Possible spot of "the accident"??

Possible spot of "the accident"??
At the bottom it says Possible CVII - Inactive Since Accident. It seems possible that CV is some codeword for an accident since CVI is near a part of the Swan that seems to have been cutoff. CVIII may have some description off to the side, CVIV has a ? next to it.

Two Oceanic planes definitely flew over Locke's head. One before he went into the hotel and one after his father left.

http://lax.war3.com/dharma-mac-and-cheese.jpg

Dharma Mac and Cheese

Dharma Mac and Cheese

One thing I find interesting about that photo is that the logo is The Swan. That means the drop was intended specifically for that hatch, and not any of the others. What that implies is that there could be other drops for other hatches.

If the computer into which the numbers are input is networked, then anyone off-island watching The Swan knows there is activity there. The numbers have been input continuously all the way back to Desmond's partner. So, why not keep supplying them? It doesn't necessarily confirm that an off-island observer knows Oceanic crashed there, and that there are survivors.

Personally, I think the drop is to satisfy naysayers who thought Hurley's ranch dressing was too old.

http://lax.war3.com/dharma-mac-and-cheese.jpg

Dharma Mac and Cheese
Yummy :D

But I wonder how long the food dropped food has been there. That would have to be one quiet airplane or whatever to not be noticed. Then again, if that was Jack's normal route to the hatch, it would have to be a fresh supply.

I liked the double entendre of the title. Lockdown. A homophone for "Locke down."

We already know Hurley was in the nut house for awhile. Why, we don't know. How nuts was he? We don't know. However, in the preview, he claims to see someone run thru the jungle that no one else sees. Hallucination? Someone he recognizes, like when Jack saw his dad? Hurley's own "black horse"?
Replaying the preview in my mind's eye, I'm going say that Hurley thought he saw / was chasing his "friend" from the nuthouse -- the one who gave him the numbers.

some people are saying the guy at the funneral looks like Hanso...

http://lax.war3.com/hansoquestionmark.jpg

I don't believe the food drop and the lockdown are related. It seems to be an error in a degrading system that caused the lockdown. When Locke's on the bicycle, it says "20 minutes to lockdown" and then when he fiddles with the PA, it says "10 minutes to lockdown." And then after the flashback it counts down from 10 seconds.

Anyone notice the playing cards had a Swan on them?

Also, Nadia is the girl who Locke was checking out the house for.

You actually could understand the static that well? Maybe it was 20 seconds, then 10 seconds, then counting down.

Perhaps just the announcement is flaky. The timing with the drop being in the same episide seems awfully coincidental.

You actually could understand the static that well? Maybe it was 20 seconds, then 10 seconds, then counting down.

Perhaps just the announcement is flaky. The timing with the drop being in the same episide seems awfully coincidental.
It was most definitely minutes. And there was nothing in the static. When Locke is on the bike, you hear 20 minutes very clearly and then after he fiddles with it and a loud screech comes, you hear "10 minutes to lockdown" clearly. Then after the flashback it says something I couldn't understand too clearly (it said something was complete, but I'm not sure what almost sounded like "phase complete") and then it counts down from 10 seconds and the doors start closing.

By the way, can anyone come up with an explanation as to why the hatch has blacklights installed, and also special glow in the dark chalk that doesn't appear under visible light?

By the way, can anyone come up with an explanation as to why the hatch has blacklights installed, and also special glow in the dark chalk that doesn't appear under visible light?
No clue, there's also the question of who drew that. Who explored the island enough to know all the hatches? Definitely not Desmond and probably not the guy before him.

No clue, there's also the question of who drew that. Who explored the island enough to know all the hatches? Definitely not Desmond and probably not the guy before him.

Two possible answers:

1. This map is just taking us deeper into the rabbit hole of this psychological experiment, and therefore was drawn by the folks who set up this experiment. It might have been drawn as recently as just before the losties arrived if Desmond is in on things, or it may go quite a ways back if the experiment has been running a long time.

2. If this isn't a psych experiment, then I would guess that whoever was there during the period of time of the original "incident" that Marvin refers to in the training film drew the map. The map refers to the accident... things working before the accident and not working after. If accident = incident, then it must have been during the early days of the bunker system, perhaps pre-1980.

I really think it was too much of a coincidence that the lockdown and the food drop occurred near or at the same time.

One point I haven't seen raised is the amount of food dropped. If it was for the bunker it was dropped by, I would think that would be logical, it seemed like an awfully large amount of food for the 2 people who should be stationed there.

I loved the expression on Sawyer's face when he saw everyone grabbing the food, first he got his a** kicked playing cards and lost the meds, now there is a large amount of food. He is slowly loosing his hold on things. I liked Jack's remark about the guns, he certainly seems to have lost his wimpy side.

I really think it was too much of a coincidence that the lockdown and the food drop occurred near or at the same time.

One point I haven't seen raised is the amount of food dropped. If it was for the bunker it was dropped by, I would think that would be logical, it seemed like an awfully large amount of food for the 2 people who should be stationed there.

I loved the expression on Sawyer's face when he saw everyone grabbing the food, first he got his a** kicked playing cards and lost the meds, now there is a large amount of food. He is slowly loosing his hold on things. I liked Jack's remark about the guns, he certainly seems to have lost his wimpy side.
It's possible that it's not just food in there. We only saw a box of macaroni and cheese. We also don't know how long this food is supposed to last them. It could be a month or two's worth of supplies.

The only evidence, and it is questionable, that the supply drop is new, is the blinking light.
...
However, who knows how long those light might blink? Could be an old drop?
It's a recent drop. Marker strobes are rated for 16 hours, but can last up to 60 hours--days, not months...

~Dan

If we were playing Myst, I would guess Control Valve
Wait...you mean this *isn't* the latest version of Myst?

But what does CV stand for?

Containment Violation?

We only saw a box of macaroni and cheese.
Ah, comfort food for the button-pushers.

Hopefully, there's some Dharma Hot Dogs in there, to make the meal complete!

~Dan

Ah, comfort food for the button-pushers.

Hopefully, there's some Dharma Hot Dogs in there, to make the meal complete!

~Dan
I was hoping for some Dharma hamburger helper myself :(

On KOMO-DT in Seattle the vocal track audio cut out at the end of the show just like it did last week. I didn't hear any dialog past "I did what you told me to. I punched in the" - and then the dialog went blank, leaving only the non-vocal audio.

It looked like it was pretty important, especially when Sayid showed "Gale" the driver's license of a Henry Gale from Minnesota. Can anyone fill me in on the missing dialog?

Thanks!

On KOMO-DT in Seattle the vocal track audio cut out at the end of the show just like it did last week. I didn't hear any dialog past "I did what you told me to. I punched in the" - and then the dialog went blank, leaving only the non-vocal audio.

It looked like it was pretty important, especially when Sayid showed "Gale" the driver's license of a Henry Gale from Minnesota. Can anyone fill me in on the missing dialog?

Thanks!

Grrr, same thing happened to me...Seattle feed. As I understand it, they dug up the body in the grave and it was the Henry's body, not a woman's. That's where they got the license from. Can anyone else fill us in on what else was said?

Wow , im totaly surprised that nobody posted that the lock box # was 1516. I actually though that the key had 108 on it., was hoping that that was the lockbox # but, 1516 is cool aswell. Yes there was 2 Oceanic AIrline planes overhead, and when looking at the real HENRY GALES license, his address was 815. Lots of bad #s in this show. VErY VERY VERY entertaining episode tonite. O by the way ALIAS is coming back in 3 weeks. Cant believe nobody mentioned that either. I know its a LOST Forum, but everything JJ goes back to ALIAS, and i guess now its finally time to end it, and hes had plenty of time to send the show off right. WOHOO, it was a good night.
Wg

But what does CV stand for?

Well since the hatch epi and now this epi I'm thinking computers, blast doors, concrete style bunkers CV to me would be Control Vault and the roman numerals is just that after looking at the map VII vaults....

I vote for Control Vault or Containment Vault.

When that map came up, I can just imagine the smirks and giggles of the writers when they came up with it, thinking about us going nuts over it. :p

Hong.

I'm thinking Containment Violation since they seem to be related to accidents/incidents on the map otherwise why would it say "Possible CVII - Inactive since accident." Then again, why is Possible CVII written on the door of the possible CVII?

On KOMO-DT in Seattle the vocal track audio cut out at the end of the show just like it did last week. I didn't hear any dialog past "I did what you told me to. I punched in the" - and then the dialog went blank, leaving only the non-vocal audio.

It looked like it was pretty important, especially when Sayid showed "Gale" the driver's license of a Henry Gale from Minnesota. Can anyone fill me in on the missing dialog?

Thanks!

"Gale" claimed that when he punched in the numbers, nothing happened except the clock reset. The walls came back up on their own a short time later. Locke is unsure whether it was just a coincidence or not.

Sayid confronts "Gale" saying that everything was just like he said with the balloon and grave. However, since he didn't trust Gale, he dug the grave and found a man inside instead of a woman. Then he showed the license.

"Gale" claimed that when he punched in the numbers, nothing happened except the clock reset.

We never saw Gale enter in the numbers. Since we know he is an "Other", perhaps he pressed a secret reset button somewhere in the hatch.

It seemed to me that for a moment the countdown clock showed 107 minutes. I thought it never went above 105. Anybody think that is significant?

- Tom

It seemed to me that for a moment the countdown clock showed 107 minutes. I thought it never went above 105. Anybody think that is significant?

- Tom

It's 108 minutes, right?

I'm surprised noone's mentioned the big X's on certain passageways on the diagram of the Swan Hatch. Just speculation, but it seems to me that one of the X's would correspond with the magnetically charged, bricked-off wall with the graffiti on it. After all, there seems to be an additional portion of the Swan Hatch beyond the X.

If Gale really is an Other, which he looks to be, why didn't he just run away either before or after pushing the button?

Looks like he had enough time to make an escape if he wanted to.

i liked the Tallahassee reference by Sawyer. it made me proudJenn Sterger in the house! ;)

Could the "delay" in entering the numbers a few eps ago (when the symbols came on the countdown clock) have been some sort of remote ordering system, whereby the people in the bunker told the Dharma people that it was time for new supplies?

Could <fake> Gale have "ordered" the supplies?

http://lax.war3.com/dharma-mac-and-cheese.jpg

Dharma Mac and CheeseSo Dharma is obviously located in the south... When I went to UCLA, people used to make fun of me for saying "supper" instead of "dinner."

Wow , im totaly surprised that nobody posted that the lock box # was 1516. I actually though that the key had 108 on it., was hoping that that was the lockbox # but, 1516 is cool aswell. Yes there was 2 Oceanic AIrline planes overhead, and when looking at the real HENRY GALES license, his address was 815. Lots of bad #s in this show. VErY VERY VERY entertaining episode tonite. O by the way ALIAS is coming back in 3 weeks. Cant believe nobody mentioned that either. I know its a LOST Forum, but everything JJ goes back to ALIAS, and i guess now its finally time to end it, and hes had plenty of time to send the show off right. WOHOO, it was a good night.
WgWhy are 1516 and 815 bad numbers? Did I miss something?

Could the "delay" in entering the numbers a few eps ago (when the symbols came on the countdown clock) have been some sort of remote ordering system, whereby the people in the bunker told the Dharma people that it was time for new supplies? Somehow I doubt that Egyptian Heiroglyphics had symbols for Easy Mac

No doubt that Locke's dad is the real Sawyer

Why are 1516 and 815 bad numbers? Did I miss something?

It's not that they're bad numbers, they're just a portion of THE Numbers. Their significance is not fully explained, but they appear in alot of places. I'm going to assume you're aware of The Numbers, and not go further.

One possibility to entertain is that the food dropped was purposely intended for our gang. If you accept the infection theory--and with the serum injected by Desmond and into Claire by Ethan, as well as the "quarantine" label it isn't a stretch--then it is possible that off-islanders know the survivors are there, but just can't retrieve them. They can still feed them though. In my opinion, the infection theory deserves more support and thought.

So....which is more likely:

1. Someone in the Swan hatch got caught in a lockdown, and while the blacklight was on, grabbed a convenient fluorescent piece of chalk and created an extremely complex diagram.
2. The diagram was planted there by Dharma as part of the experiment
3. The writers are yanking our chain again

Anybody think the bank's locker room that Locke went to get his dad's money looked awfully similar to where Kate went to get her toy plane from locker number 815? :confused:

If the food drop and the blast doors were related, then the last time the doors started to rumble was also when the countdown timer expired. Coincidence?? I think the blast doors were related more to the expiration of countdown than the food drop.

Replaying the preview in my mind's eye, I'm going say that Hurley thought he saw / was chasing his "friend" from the nuthouse -- the one who gave him the numbers.

An "invisible" friend more likely. The numbers guy was an old salt.

Here is a good capture of the map.


http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/blastDoorMapOverlay.jpg

Here are the links to some more maps with transaltions of some of the passages, etc....

http://www.thehatchonline.com/images/dharmadoor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kimsphotos/lost/243bfbf3.jpg

second one is the best yet....

Here is a good capture of the map.



Cogito ergo doleo - I think therefore I am depressed
Credo nos in fluctu eodem esse - I think we're on the same wavelength
Sursum corda - lift up your hearts
hic sunt dracones - here are dragons

Think Locke tell anyone about the map? Its not like they know how to get the doors to come down again.

Great episode.

One question I had is HOW was the map drawn. Either someone has access to the blast door in the ceiling or more likely while it was down. That seems to indicate that it stays down or can be brought down for long periods or someone made notes over many short-interval door-closed events.

Or that it's another plant/stimulus introduced by the Dharma Observers.

On Henry's license, what is that year on his signature? 8/11 is easy to make out. Sure looks like the year ends in 6, either 66 or 06. It wouldn't make temporal sense for the signature to be after the expiration date. And that logo on the lower right corner of the license sure is Dharma-esque: pentagon instead of octagon.

On Henry's license, what is that year on his signature? 8/11 is easy to make out. Sure looks like the year ends in 6, either 66 or 06. It wouldn't make temporal sense for the signature to be after the expiration date. And that logo on the lower right corner of the license sure is Dharma-esque: pentagon instead of octagon.

that is a date of birth.

And the $10,000 question, was the real Henry Gale an organ doner?

that is a date of birth.

64... yep... never seen someone put their birth date next to their signature.

It seemed to me that for a moment the countdown clock showed 107 minutes. I thought it never went above 105. Anybody think that is significant?

- Tom

When it resets, which we've seen it do several times, doesn't it reset to 108?

Interesting the numbers appear to be square roots.

It looks like the author of the map is looking for something and trying to figure which of the "CV"'s it is in. Containment vault makes sense.

What is the D.I.M.G. ?

So was Jack putting the moves on Kate there at the end? He lied to her about the shower not working, but then he offered to walk her back to the beach. I think Jack was planning on hitting that, so to speak.

So was Jack putting the moves on Kate there at the end? He lied to her about the shower not working, but then he offered to walk her back to the beach. I think Jack was planning on hitting that, so to speak.

Winning at poker is a great turn-on for the babes. :D

"Loop, Jack!"

Do you guys need a ruler?

http://lax.war3.com/dharma-mac-and-cheese.jpg

Dharma Mac and Cheese

So, does Dharma cut off your supplies if you eat it for lunch instead of "supper"? What if you just want a snack while waiting to enter the numbers?

;)

Great episode.

One question I had is HOW was the map drawn. Either someone has access to the blast door in the ceiling or more likely while it was down. That seems to indicate that it stays down or can be brought down for long periods or someone made notes over many short-interval door-closed events.


Looks like the map was drawn by the "minders" of Swan Station (perhaps Desmond or his late partner?) during long periods when the doors were down, and maybe they drew it in flourescent so that their Darma overseers would not discover it when they "stopped by"? Otherwise, why not just draw it on paper? Doing it that way suggests deliberate concealment.

Wonder how badly Locke's leg is injured? If one of those big steel dowels in the bottom of the door went through his leg, that's some serious trauma. I figured Jack would take a look at the leg before he started breakin' bad on Henry.

Is Sayid not just a stud?! What a great final scene!!

So was Jack putting the moves on Kate there at the end? He lied to her about the shower not working, but then he offered to walk her back to the beach. I think Jack was planning on hitting that, so to speak.

Probably just wanted to make sure she was actually going back to the beach instead of doubling back to the hatch. Kate's fooled him before. And besides, Jack is a gentleman! :)

Do you guys need a ruler?

You mean they weren't talking about holding elections?

Here are the links to some more maps with transaltions of some of the passages, etc....

http://www.thehatchonline.com/images/dharmadoor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kimsphotos/lost/243bfbf3.jpg

second one is the best yet....

Here's what the second link shows:

OUTSIDE THE OCTAGON

SIDE 1 (TOP)
Nothing Visible

SIDE 2 (MOVING CLOCKWISE)

WITH LIGHT INDUSTRIAL EQUIPMENT
OR OTHER ROUTE OF TRAVEL
SUSPECTED SHUTDOWN DATE 10.28.84

SIDE 3 (RIGHT)

MOUNTAINOUS TERRAIN MOST LIKELY USED BY D.I.H.G FOR METEROLOGICAL RESEARCH DUE TO…
GEOLOGICAL COMPOSITION LIKELY TO CAUSE MAGNETIC INTERFERENCE WITH WEATHER PROJECT
- INTERFERENCE MIGHT ALSO PREVENT LOCATION FROM USE AS LISTENING STATION CRYPTOGRAPHY RESEARCH OR ANALYSIS
HIGH POTENTIAL FOR R.V.S

SIDE 4

CV IV?
THE PEARL?
HIC SUNT DRACONES
CV III
PRIMARY NEXUS OF CERBERUS RELATED ACTIVITY
SIGHTINGS COINCIDE WITH EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN OF INTRANET SERVICES OF HEIGHTENED SECURITY
KNOWN FINAL RESTING PLACE OF MAGNUS HANSO / BLACK ROCK
ACTIVITY MINIMAL DURING LOCKDOWN AND RESTOCKING PROCEDURES
REV - 4.2.02 POSSIBLE LOCATION OF ZOOLOGICAL RESEARCH FACILITY
STATED GOAL ACCELERATED DE-TERRITORIAL OF URSUS MARITIMUS THROUGH GENE THERAPY AND EXTREME CLIMATE CHANGE

SIDE 5 (BOTTOM)

THE SWAN:
(4,8,15,16,23,42)
HOME (?) OF H.G. DELEGATION INSPECTION OF 12.07.81
NO CONNECTION TO E.P.P. NETWORK
SYSTEM WIDE FAILURE OF DHARMATEL INTRANET 4.08.00, 8.15.01, 01.06.05
COMPLETE SHUTDOWN IN EFFECT
P.R.D. EVERY 6-8 MONTHS FATALITIES: 5
POSSIBLE CV II - INACTIVE SINCE ACCIDENT
MULTIPLE ESCAPE CONDUITS BLOCKED AFTER INCIDENT

SIDE 6

POSSIBLE RECREATIONAL AREA FOR D.I.H.G. SURVEY TEAMS
LOW PRIORITY ZONE FOR EXPLORATION POSSIBLE SITE FOR ABOVE GROUND
RELEVANCE TO VALENZETTI-RELATED RESEARCH ACTIVITY.
NO SAFE LOCATION FOR DHARMATEL DERVERS/HUB/CABLING OR INFRASTRUCTURE
- CV I HIGHLY UNLIKELY
ALLEDGED LOCATION OF ABORTED #7 LARGE NUMBER OF UNDERGROUND SPRINGS / HEAVY WATER TABLE
ACTIVITY UNSUITABLE FOR D.I.H.G

SIDE 7 (LEFT)

ALLEGED LOCATION OF #4 - THE FLAME
BUT UNLIKELY DUE TO CERBERUS ACTIVITY
CERBERUS STATION BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN ABANDONED DOE TO AH/MDG INCIDENT OF 1985
OR
POSSIBLE CATASTROPHIC MALFUNCTION OR CERBERUS SYSTEM
ESTIMATED TRAVEL TIME INCOMPATIBLE WITH 108. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SURVEY
AEG EXIT MONTENDO(?)
CONFIRMED SITE OF CADECUS MEDICAL STATION (THE STAFF)

SIDE 8

FOLLOWING AH/MGD INCIDENT
BUT COULD BE #6

INSIDE THE OCTAGON

ARROW BUNKER
No text added

C3? BUNKER

CREDO NOS IN FLUCTU EODEN ES
WHY SO MANY DHARMATEL RELAYS IN SUCH AN UNTENABLE LOCATION?

C4? BUNKER

Z4, Y8, Z15 SUBTERRANEAN CONDUIT
LIBERTE TE EX INFERUS

THE SWAN

UT SIT MAGNA, TAMEN CERTE LENTA IRA DECORUM EST
LEFT ROOM LABELED "MS(?)"
RIGHT ROOM LABELED "HC(?)"

THE FLAME (some are calling this Neptune instead)

COGITO ERGO DOTEO

THE STAFF

MALLUM CONSILLIUM QUAD MUTARI NON POTEST
SURSUM CORDA
SURSUM CORDA
SURSUM CORDA

? (middle of map)

DESIGNATION UNCERTAIN?
PURPOSE UNKNOWN?
RELATION TO D.I.H.G. UNKNOWN.
NIL ACTUM REPUTA SI QUID SUPEREST AGENDUM

Could be, I agree CVIV is not a proper roman numeral.

But what would CV stand for? Can we learn anything by the shape they are drawn on the map? They look rectangular, and appear to be separate (but nearby) from the Swan hatch rather than directly part of it?

It isnt. However CVI, CVII, and CVIII are, and stand for 106, 107, 108. Is CVIII listed near the hatch, are these the countdown numbers in other hatches perhaps?

The number of the saftey deposit box is 1516.

Here is some added info for "Hic Sunt Dracones" and maps

http://www.maphist.nl/extra/herebedragons.html

Also, I wonder what is the significance of the squares of the numbers, since they were shown in the map next to "the flame".

That second photo can't possibly be an interpretation -- that's gotta be an inside job (production leak), or fake. While it is obvious that some of the writings could be ascertained from screen captures or freeze frames, some must've been too small to read, even off a good HD image. The show's camera seems to have been just too far away. Granted, this is just my amateur opinion. If the interpretations are correct, that's a heck of a lot of information, and shows a fairly thorough level of understanding. Only a Dharma person could place so much detail on it. One possibility is that The Swan was a Dharma manager's residence, and the map was for tracking operations and events when a more appropriate central office was unavailable.

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/galeLicense.jpg

no idea if this has any significance


Ok, so who really buried Henry Gale? The Others don't seem like the 'decent burial' type.

I think the blast doors were triggered accidentally rather than in response to the air drop. The reason is because of the static audio announcement before they went down - it seems like the systems there may be degrading and having intermittent issues. The plumbing going bad is another symptom of decay.


I think the blast doors going down was intentional, and timed to coincide with the food drop. One of the words you could hear in the static was 'lockdown'

He finally snaps and kicks some. Bout time. I thought he was gonna rip Sawyer in the ep they were trying to catch that tree frog. One insult too many, I guess.


from the ep it sounds like Sawyer called him crazy or a 'nut'. That sets him off (as there's a ring of truth to it from his past)

Polar bears are considered by many to be marine mammals. The name Ursus maritimus means maritime bear. Their preferred habitat is the pack ice of the Arctic Ocean. The ice edge and pressure ridges where fractures and refreezing occur provide the best hunting ground. Bears will travel as much as 1,000 km north and south, as the ice melts and freezes. During summer bears may remain on islands or coastlines with landfast ice, drift on ice flows, or get stranded on land where they are forced to endure warm weather.

I think the blast doors going down was intentional, and timed to coincide with the food drop. One of the words you could hear in the static was 'lockdown'

One of the translations from the second image post just above was
ACTIVITY MINIMAL
DURING LOCKDOWN AND
RESTOCKING PROCEDURES

So yeah, it would be as you say.

I think Cerberus is the black smoke.

From wikipedia:
In Greek mythology, Cerberus or Cerberus (Greek Κέρβερος, Kerberos, demon of the pit), was the hound of Hades—a monstrous three-headed dog (sometimes said to have 50 or 100 heads) with a snake for a tail and innumerable snake heads on his back.

He guarded the gate to Hades (the Greek underworld) and ensured that the dead could not leave and the living could not enter.

perhaps the CV's are points where the black smoke can emerge.

If comments above are true, "ESTIMATED TRAVEL TIME INCOMPATIBLE WITH 108. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SURVEY" seems to indicate that this was one person doing this map/survey. If you had two or more people, one could go survey while the other manned the hatch and the 108 minute limitation wouldn't matter.

The only possible mention of the Others in the writing would either be cerberus or D.I.H.G. I'm betting D.I.H.G. is Dharma Initiatve something-or-other.

Dates in the notes range from 1981 - 2005.

With a January '05 incident recorded, it would seem that Desmond must have done this drawing.

We never saw Gale enter in the numbers. Since we know he is an "Other", perhaps he pressed a secret reset button somewhere in the hatch.


at first iwas thinking the same thing, the guy is an other.. but they just made it way too obvious for him to be one.. I think theres more to this guy.. Im not sure hes an other.. though he did remember those sequence of numbers all too easily..

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/galeLicense.jpg

no idea if this has any significance

can't help but think of that line from Ghostbusters:

"I've seen sh!^ that'll turn you white!"

at first iwas thinking the same thing, the guy is an other.. but they just made it way too obvious for him to be one.. I think theres more to this guy.. Im not sure hes an other.. though he did remember those sequence of numbers all too easily..

I agree. Also, I mentioned earlier, if he's an other, why didn't he run out of the hatch? He had every opportunity to escape.

http://lax.war3.com/dharma-mac-and-cheese.jpg

Dharma Mac and Cheese

is anyone drinking the Dharma KoolAid ? :)

I agree. Also, I mentioned earlier, if he's an other, why didn't he run out of the hatch? He had every opportunity to escape.


The Others seems to like infiltrating these groups of survivors. Perhaps he felt that staying among them was better in the long term.

At least now we know how stuff in the hatch is from different years, including the enigmatic washer and dryer.What is the D.I.M.G. ?Dharma Initiative Monitoring Group? Or if it's D.I.H.G., Dharma Initiative Handling Group?If comments above are true, "ESTIMATED TRAVEL TIME INCOMPATIBLE WITH 108. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SURVEY" seems to indicate that this was one person doing this map/survey. If you had two or more people, one could go survey while the other manned the hatch and the 108 minute limitation wouldn't matter.That's excellent!

Xesdeeni

I agree. Also, I mentioned earlier, if he's an other, why didn't he run out of the hatch? He had every opportunity to escape.
Because he thought his alibi was fool proof

at first iwas thinking the same thing, the guy is an other.. but they just made it way too obvious for him to be one.. I think theres more to this guy.. Im not sure hes an other.. though he did remember those sequence of numbers all too easily..

I'm with you. We know his identity is false, and that he most likely got it from the buried guy's license. Still, that in no way confirms he's an Other -- just that he isn't Henry Gale. He could have any number of reasons for concealing his true identity. He could be a renegade from The Others' encampment, another Rousseau (loner), or a true Other. Each is possible. He's just not Henry Gale.

at first iwas thinking the same thing, the guy is an other.. but they just made it way too obvious for him to be one.. I think theres more to this guy.. Im not sure hes an other.. though he did remember those sequence of numbers all too easily..

In the preview for the next week, didn't he say something like, "He'll kill me". I took that to be the same He, that was going to be pissed at Ethan for taking Claire too soon...So to me that seems to indicate that he is in the same "others" as Ethan was in.

D.I.M.G. - Dharme Initiative Monitoring Group (edit - someone beat me to it!)?

Here's where I'm confused: when they first got into the hatch didn't Desmond make some reference to the world being destroyed? I seem to remember that he was surprised to see other living people. On the other hand he asked if Jack was his replacement...

Anyhow, with all of the "quarantine" marks and indications the hatch being something of a bunker, you would think that the occupants were not meant to leave. That makes me curious about the resupply since you would obviously need to break the quarantine in order to go out and retrieve it. Additionally, if he did think there had been some sort of apocalypse, would it not seem strange to be recieving regular resupply drops?

Strange...

I am pretty certain the food drop and the lockdown go hand in hand. In the second map in the center of the bottom it read "P.R.D. every 6-8 months". Speculating that it stands for Periodic Rations Drop, it jives with what Desmond told Jack. But it also reads "fatalities: 5". I would surmise that somehow 5 people have died in relation to the drops and therefore a lockdown procedure was put in place to minimize the risk.

That makes me curious about the resupply since you would obviously need to break the quarantine in order to go out and retrieve it.

Perhaps all the ongoing Darma experiments outside of the bunkers are temporarily shut down when resupply drops are expected so it will be "safe" to go outside and retrieve them.

In the Lost podcast this week executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse explained why the Hanso Foundation website is down. They are redesigning it and expect to bring it back in May. They explained that the site will include more Lost mythology that compliments what they show in the episodes. Their hope is that it would help bridge the summer gap between seasons.

Is there anyone from Minnesota here that could explain what the "C4" means under "Issued" in the Gale driver's license?

It make no sense that the handwritten date would be his date of birth, could we be reading it wrong? I notice that the expiration is "03". I take that to mean 2003. Doesn't every license have a day and month also for expiration? Also, if a 6'3, 220 black man is the balloonist, that would mean the balloon would have been up in the tree at least a couple of years (maps show 2005 dates), and would be completely in tatters.

If someone can confirm, does a Minnesota license look like this.

Anyhow, with all of the "quarantine" marks and indications the hatch being something of a bunker, you would think that the occupants were not meant to leave.

Perhaps that what the innoculations were for. Allowed them to leave the hatch periodically to retrieve supplies.


That makes me curious about the resupply since you would obviously need to break the quarantine in order to go out and retrieve it.
Strange...


Perhaps we'll find that part of the resupply is more meds. Lets hope Jack pays attention to the meds this time around.

As related to Gale:

at first iwas thinking the same thing, the guy is an other.. but they just made it way too obvious for him to be one.. I think theres more to this guy.. Im not sure hes an other.. though he did remember those sequence of numbers all too easily..

I wonder if he is actually on this island by mistake (boat wreck or similar) and he was found by the others and forced to infiltrate the losties. They gave him his story and threatened to kill him if he told on them.

I think this map is the coolest thing to come out an episode yet. Decoding all of this stuff and reading others interpreations is amazingly intriguing. The map seems to be a means to tie up a lot of lose ends. The polar bear, rations drop and the lockdown, etc... Most fun I have ever had from a TV show...

Doesn't every license have a day and month also for expiration?
Depends on the state. Here in WV, your license expires at the end of your birth month. So there is no need for a date, just the year. I think it has one though.

I think this map is the coolest thing to come out an episode yet. Decoding all of this stuff and reading others interpreations is amazingly intriguing. The map seems to be a means to tie up a lot of lose ends. The polar bear, rations drop and the lockdown, etc... Most fun I have ever had from a TV show...

they've made it truly interactional for us crazies...I don't know of any other show that makes stuff like this and lets the audience discover it on its own...

Ok, so who really buried Henry Gale? The Others don't seem like the 'decent burial' type.

I think The Others have been painted as much more evil than they are. Ethan and the guy Ana Lucia killed were bother infiltrating observers. They became violent in self-defense after being detected. They were known to have killed a couple of the tail-section survivors, but as they guy said, it was because they were considered threats. They have guns, because they confronted Jack's search/rescue party for Walt. However, they didn't kill any of them, and could've. they did fire on Sawyer, but he was armed too. They burned the raft, but because they had a reason to keep the rafters on the island. They know where the camps are, so they could attack from cover easily -- but they don't. They abducted children, but we know Rousseau's daughter is living and they say Walt is fine. If you believe Ethan, that Claire's release of her son was her choice to make, then there must be a reason they're collecting the children. I think it all ties back into the viral outbreak. The innoculation Claire received and Desmond took were both labeled the same. If Desmond took it, it is a benign injection -- he wouldn't be poisoning himself. What makes them so much of a mystery is that they haven't disclosed to our group who they are. That doesn't make them evil though. I think all they're doing is designed to protect and isolate themselves. If the outbreak still threatens, they've got plenty of motivation to do so.

Here's where I'm confused: when they first got into the hatch didn't Desmond make some reference to the world being destroyed? I seem to remember that he was surprised to see other living people. On the other hand he asked if Jack was his replacement...

I believe what he said was that if the button didn't get pushed every 108 minutes, it would be "the end of the world", not that apocalypse had already come. Does anyone still have the season premiere episode recorded?

they've made it truly interactional for us crazies...I don't know of any other show that makes stuff like this and lets the audience discover it on its own...

There have been TV fanboys and girls since bulletin boards started. People chat up all kinds of shows, some of which keep the audience guessing from episode to episode. Take Firefly for instance. River's history was nearly a complete mystery until Serenity (the film). 24 and Sopranos have their mysteries, as did X-Files. The new show The Evidence has been presented in the same way, where the audience can solve the crime alongside the detectives. The Internet is mature enough that web-savvy creators can anticipate this activity, and feed it. Lost may be extreme, but I don't think it is the only example of a show with a curious web-focused fanbase.

Also, if a 6'3, 220 black man is the balloonist, that would mean the balloon would have been up in the tree at least a couple of years (maps show 2005 dates), and would be completely in tatters.

:confused:

Do white guys handle their crashed balloons differently?

sorry, just realized that link had already been posted.

Hate to ask this, but how do you go in and edit or delete your post?

just a thought - a couple of episodes ago when locke didnt enter in the code in time, we saw some symbols start to appear. Counting this, it took roughly 17-18 seconds from the timer hitting zero to when locke shut it off. It sounded like something was obviously starting up, and because only one symbol was left before locke punched in the numbers, any time slightly after 17-18 seconds means that what ever starting up probably got started up. So, if anyone still has a copy of yesterdays episode count the number of seconds after the timer hits zero (i think we will be able to tell from the sounds) and if it is well over 17-18 seconds we know that whatever mechanism the numbers stop from starting started up. I'd do this myself but i didnt record the last one! Phew i know thats a little confusing....

I'm with you. We know his identity is false, and that he most likely got it from the buried guy's license. Still, that in no way confirms he's an Other -- just that he isn't Henry Gale. He could have any number of reasons for concealing his true identity. He could be a renegade from The Others' encampment, another Rousseau (loner), or a true Other. Each is possible. He's just not Henry Gale.
Playing off your idea, if he is not an Other, isn't it reasonable that he would be very suspicious of the Losties, given that they inhabit a bunker, and seem to come and go from it at will? And, the bunker is where they choose to imprison him. I haven't thought through all the details (where the devil resides ;)), but I can see a lot of merit in looking at the Losties through the eyes of "Balloon Man", and being very scared to admit anything about myself that might help them.

One Latin phrase I haven't seen translated yet: "liberte te ex inferus".

Seems like it would be easy if I knew Latin!

D.I.M.G. - Dharma Initiative Monitoring Group

I think the M might stand for Magnetism

Here are the links to some more maps with transaltions of some of the passages, etc....

http://www.thehatchonline.com/images/dharmadoor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kimsphotos/lost/243bfbf3.jpg

second one is the best yet....

Anyone have a copy or working link for the 2nd one? It's bandwidth exceeded currently.

Lost may be extreme, but I don't think it is the only example of a show with a curious web-focused fanbase.
Every Star Trek series (except the first one of course) had a huge Internet following. Before the web came around, TNG had a huge newsgroup where every episode was dissected and argued over by fans.

One Latin phrase I haven't seen translated yet: "liberte te ex inferus".

Seems like it would be easy if I knew Latin!


Save yourself from Hell

Anyone have a copy or working link for the 2nd one? It's bandwidth exceeded currently.

It is a jpeg, and I have it opened in a browser. I can Save As, but how do I get it to you?

Save yourself from Hell
What would "Free yourself (escape) from Hell" be in Latin (for the sake of comparison)?

That second photo can't possibly be an interpretation -- that's gotta be an inside job (production leak), or fake. While it is obvious that some of the writings could be ascertained from screen captures or freeze frames, some must've been too small to read, even off a good HD image. The show's camera seems to have been just too far away. Granted, this is just my amateur opinion. If the interpretations are correct, that's a heck of a lot of information, and shows a fairly thorough level of understanding. Only a Dharma person could place so much detail on it. One possibility is that The Swan was a Dharma manager's residence, and the map was for tracking operations and events when a more appropriate central office was unavailable.A leak? Probably, but I think we could say some of the stuff that is "leaked" is done deliberately to expound on the initial offering without being too obvious about it.

I don't know that the maker of the schematic/notes would have had to be a Dharma person really. After all, even Desmond knew of and had seen the "training film" and had lots of free time on his hands to ponder the situation/explore etc.

Anyway, I sent in my request from the back of my Dharma O's box for the secret decoder ring so if it ever shows up in the mail I'll be able to tell everybody what's going on in the show....


ron

I think The Others have been painted as much more evil than they are. Ethan and the guy Ana Lucia killed were bother infiltrating observers. They became violent in self-defense after being detected.

Ethan HUNG Charlie! The Other that infiltrated the tailies killed the guy Anna put in the pit!!!! I don't consider either of those actions self-defense!

It is a jpeg, and I have it opened in a browser. I can Save As, but how do I get it to you?

First thing you should do is right-click on it and there should be an option to Save Image As. Save it somewhere on your computer.

Then reply to my message here, and while composing your reply look for the button just to the left of the one that looks like Earth. That's for inserting an image in your reply. Insert the image you saved.

Is there anyone from Minnesota here that could explain what the "C4" means under "Issued" in the Gale driver's license?

It make no sense that the handwritten date would be his date of birth, could we be reading it wrong? I notice that the expiration is "03". I take that to mean 2003. Doesn't every license have a day and month also for expiration? Also, if a 6'3, 220 black man is the balloonist, that would mean the balloon would have been up in the tree at least a couple of years (maps show 2005 dates), and would be completely in tatters.

If someone can confirm, does a Minnesota license look like this.

Remember that it is 2004 on the island (pre-Red Sox championship).

Though why is there 2005 dates on the map? Unless they crashed in December 2004 (but why wouldn't they know about the Red Sox?)

Second image.
http://kjordan.net/doortrans.jpg

Some translations:

Sursum Corda - Lift up your hearts

Credo Nos in Fluctu Eoden Es - I think we're on the same wavelength

Liberte te ex Infernus - Save yourself from hell

Hic Sunt Dracones - Here are Dragons

Ursus Martimus - Polar Bear

Nil Actum Reputa Si Quid Superest Agendum - Dont Consider anything has been done if anything is left to be done

I couldn't agree more. I hate previews. It's pretty tough to miss them with Lost.

Mark

I'll just turn the computer off after the episode :D

naw it looks good...honestly, I think if I stop watching the commercials, expectations DROP dramatically and you aren't expecting everything to happen in one episode...it worked well last season but I don't know why I started watching the previews...could be the fact that its almost forced upon you...showing a 2 minute preview 5 minutes before teh show starts is by FAR the stupidest thing the networks do (and they all do it, even Sci-Fi)...that is my biggest pet-peeve

Has anyone wondered why the lockdown would coincide with the counter nearing zero? This would make it impossible to input the numbers if you were the only one there and locked in the "living area".

I don't know that the maker of the schematic/notes would have had to be a Dharma person really. After all, even Desmond knew of and had seen the "training film" and had lots of free time on his hands to ponder the situation/explore etc.
There are so many question marks on that map, it had to have been done by people who were not associated with the Dharma bums (or perhaps were in conflict with them) and were trying to figure out what the complex was, just like our Lostaways. I think this secondary group found the map and the notation was trying to make sense of it and expand on it. Look at all these indefinite and open-ended phrases:

"Confirmed site of Cadeceus Medical Station". They didn't know where it was before?

"Cerberus Station believed to have been abandoned due to AH/MDG incident of 1985." They're not sure why it was abandoned but they do know of a specific incident that happened years ago.

"Alleged location of #4 -- the Flame." then "But unlikely due to cerberus activity." Yet "The Flame" is right there on the map.

"CV 1 highly unlikely" -- but there it is on the map.

"Rev 4.2.02 Possible location of zoological research facility." Obviously they didn't put it there themselves if it exists.

"Why do many Dharmatel Relays in such an untenable location?" Good question! I have a better one -- what the hell is a Dharmatel Relay? It sounds like standard networking equipment since on the other side there's "No safe location for Dharmatel servers/hub/cabling or infrastructure."

Is there anyone from Minnesota here that could explain what the "C4" means under "Issued" in the Gale driver's license?

It make no sense that the handwritten date would be his date of birth, could we be reading it wrong? I notice that the expiration is "03". I take that to mean 2003. Doesn't every license have a day and month also for expiration? Also, if a 6'3, 220 black man is the balloonist, that would mean the balloon would have been up in the tree at least a couple of years (maps show 2005 dates), and would be completely in tatters.

If someone can confirm, does a Minnesota license look like this.


My license looks similar to the one shown with some minor differences. It also has my handwritten date of birth after my signature. I don't know what the issued box means.

It looks like the license number is bogus. I can generate my number at the following site but the Henry Gale number isn't even close:

http://www.highprogrammer.com/cgi-bin/uniqueid/dl_mn

I wonder if Cerberus is the name of the guard system since Cerberus was the 3-headed watchdog of Hades.

I wonder if Cerberus is the name of the guard system since Cerberus was the 3-headed watchdog of Hades.
Phrases that hint at what Cerberus is:

"Cerberus Station believed to have been abandoned due to AH/MDG incident of 1985, or possible catastrophic malfunction of Cerberus system."

"Alleged location of #4 -- the Flame but unlikely due to Cerberus activity."

"Primary nexus of Cerberus-related activity."

So it's a "system" that probably "malfunctioned" and if the Flame station exists, it was built after it had failed.

can't help but think of that line from Ghostbusters:

"I've seen sh!^ that'll turn you white!"

Now that's a good one... :D

I think The Others have been painted as much more evil than they are...
They were known to have killed a couple of the tail-section survivors, but as they guy said, it was because they were considered threats...
However, they didn't kill any of them, and could've. They did fire on Sawyer, but he was armed too...
They burned the raft, but because they had a reason to keep the rafters on the island...
They know where the camps are, so they could attack from cover easily -- but they don't...
They abducted children, but we know Rousseau's daughter is living and they say Walt is fine...
...there must be a reason they're collecting the children...With all due respect, you must be smokin' some good stuff.

The Others have "painted" their own depiction of "evil" with their actions. It looks like you're wanting to give them a break because they have controlled their evil. That's ludicrous.

Just because the others haven't killed everybody or have seemed to mind their own business the majority of the time or apparently have intentions that seem "right" to them does NOTHING to exhonerate them of the things they HAVE done against the Losties.

"Hey, Honorable Judge, I only killed 3 people in a fit of rage but left most everybody else unharmed." "I'm not really as bad as the prosecutor and the victims families made me look." "Just let me go and I promise I'll only do it again if someone makes me really angry." Ludicrous.

Ethan HUNG Charlie! The Other that infiltrated the tailies killed the guy Anna put in the pit!!!! I don't consider either of those actions self-defense!

Both points are undeniably true. I don't believe though that either of those deaths would have occurred under different circumstances. The guy in the pit was innocent, and sooner or later that would have been established. Charlie was a threat to Ethan. Hanging is extreme, but perhaps we can consider it a military action. Few believe our troops in Iraq are evil, but they kill regularly.

What would "Free yourself (escape) from Hell" be in Latin (for the sake of comparison)?

Probably most accurate is Liberate Yourself from Hell.

"Why so many Dharmatel Relays in such an untenable location?" Good question! I have a better one -- what the hell is a Dharmatel Relay? It sounds like standard networking equipment since on the other side there's "No safe location for Dharmatel servers/hub/cabling or infrastructure."

I'm guessing Dharmatel is their telephone network. Microwave relays are fairly common for line of sight communications links. Old telecom switches were made up of numerous mechanical relays.

re: the equations... none are ones I recognize off the top of my head... could just be made up I guess.

Looking at the equations, some look to be vector calculus(?). It appears there are some r, pi, mu-naught, and G variables/constants in some of them. These might certainly be used in analysis of magnetic and/or gravitational fields. Many fields decrease in strength as the square of the distance from the source. Thus the need for doing square roots (as seen in diagram) to determine radius/distance.

Finally, what is the blue in the diagram? Red/pink seems to be physical structures. We have the blue octagon outline, blue lines connecting hatches (comm links, C4 not on net, ...?), blue meandering "paths" that have width (above-ground paths, underground tunnels, streams, ...?), and then what looks like countour map lines on the right (which makes sense as that's also noted as "Mountainous Terrain most likely...", although might be magnetic field strength lines as well).

Fun trying to figure all of this out.

D.I.M.G. - Dharme Initiative Monitoring Group (edit - someone beat me to it!)?...I'm not sure it's supposed to be D.I.M.G. I'm leaning towards the M being an H, which makes it D.I.H.G. or likely Dharma Initiative Hanso Group.

In the Lost podcast this week executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse explained why the Hanso Foundation website is down. They are redesigning it and expect to bring it back in May. They explained that the site will include more Lost mythology that compliments what they show in the episodes. Their hope is that it would help bridge the summer gap between seasons.As opposed to the month long gaps between each episode DURING the season? ;)

I think this map is the coolest thing to come out an episode yet. Decoding all of this stuff and reading others interpreations is amazingly intriguing. The map seems to be a means to tie up a lot of lose ends. The polar bear, rations drop and the lockdown, etc... Most fun I have ever had from a TV show...Now fun would be watching Jack Bauer rig the door with explosives while Chloe used a data mining program to hack the door's code!

So what is the deal with JJ and Lost? was he really just brought in at the last minute by ABC to supervise? Its so weird, you don't get that view from the DVD bonus features...you feel like he's been onboard since the begining...

Going all the way back to this :)

JJ was involved since the beginning. Former ABC exec Jeffrey Lieber had the concept to do something like Survivor -- people stuck on an island -- as a fictional story. He called JJ and asked him to develop it very late in the development process for the 2004-2005 year. He met and then brought in Damon Lindelof, and they fleshed out the concept and brought in a team of writers. He was involved in the whole pilot process, including casting and directing and choosing the creative team. There's a lot about this on the pilot documentary on the DVD set.

Once he got the MI3 gig, he obviously had to step back. Damon and Carlton Cuse (who wrote last night's episode and do the podcasts) are the showrunners. JJ is still involved, but not on a day to day basis.

With all due respect, you must be smokin' some good stuff.

The Others have "painted" their own depiction of "evil" with their actions. It looks like you're wanting to give them a break because they have controlled their evil. That's ludicrous.

Just because the others haven't killed everybody or have seemed to mind their own business the majority of the time or apparently have intentions that seem "right" to them does NOTHING to exhonerate them of the things they HAVE done against the Losties.

"Hey, Honorable Judge, I only killed 3 people in a fit of rage but left most everybody else unharmed." "I'm not really as bad as the prosecutor and the victims families made me look." "Just let me go and I promise I'll only do it again if someone makes me really angry." Ludicrous.

I choose to view the island as lawless, and not actively experimenting. There are reasons motivating The Others to behave the way they are. Some might say they are crazy, literally psycho. However, they are organized, and do crazy humans organize (don't get all Borg / Reevers sci-fi on me)? They appear to have a charismatic leader, the one Mr. Friendly refers to in the medical hatch when Claire is there. We know the children they have stolen are alive -- we've seen glimpses of them. I'm as curious as the rest to know why they've been violent, but I will not accept that they are crazed sacrificing Satan worshipers. If they are stuck, truly stuck on that island, for some reason related to The Incident, then they have to adapt some sort of martial law for resource control, threat management, etc. To me, that explains why they've done what they've done. Again, I don't want to politicize the show, but in the real world we are fighting a war, and there is violence in that war that is not always just, yet we accept it according to the context. In this show, I believe there is context to explain the violence.

I'm not sure it's supposed to be D.I.M.G. I'm leaning towards the M being an H, which makes it D.I.H.G. or likely Dharma Initiative Hanso Group.I'm going with Every Good Buy Does Fine and All Cows Eat Grass

JJ was involved since the beginning. Former ABC exec Jeffrey Lieber had the concept to do something like Survivor -- people stuck on an island -- as a fictional story. He called JJ and asked him to develop it very late in the development process for the 2004-2005 year.
That depends on what you mean by beginning.

The Lost idea was bounced around ABC for almost a year. ABC exec Lloyd Braun pitched the idea in a 2003 ABC "Gong Show" brainstorming meeting. There was no spooky sci-fi stuff, just a bunch of attractive people with questionable pasts trapped on an island together. Aaron Spelling agreed to do it and came up with a pilot script in December but it sucked. He came back with another script in January of 2004 but it was even worse. Braun had big hopes for Lost so he twisted Abrams' arm to think about doing it. He agreed to do in in February after a woman in ABC's drama department introduced him to Damon Lindelof who added all the spooky stuff. That gave them months to come up with a well-written and very expensive pilot for Fall of 2004.

Anybody want to guess how long "Lost" might last??? The problem (as they are already having with Walt) is that if the story only moves forward a few weeks a season, how do you deal with the real life aging of the cast???

If someone can confirm, does a Minnesota license look like this.Google image search shows:

http://www.co.hennepin.mn.us/vgn/images/portal/cit_100003649/26/16/127469896dl_regular.jpg

Google image search shows:

http://www.co.hennepin.mn.us/vgn/images/portal/cit_100003649/25/55/127469896dl_regular.jpgNo way Gayle Sample is under 21! :)

Anybody want to guess how long "Lost" might last??? The problem (as they are already having with Walt) is that if the story only moves forward a few weeks a season, how do you deal with the real life aging of the cast???
"Oh no. Malcom David Kelley looks too old to play Walt now. We have no choice but to cancel the show..."

No way Gayle Sample is under 21! :)

Yep... same model for all licenses:
http://www.co.hennepin.mn.us/vgn/portal/internet/hcdetailmaster/0,2300,1273_81886_127472981,00.html

But that web page also says "New Minnesota Driver's License
See Minnesota's completely redesigned drivers' licenses and ID cards, and learn the reasons contributing to this drastic change."

So now I have to find the "old" style MN license as would've expired in '03.

I`m a bit curious how the supply drops are being made? So not all air transportation devices crash when going over the Island?

If it was Balloon, some Balloons crash and some don't? If it was Plane, wouldn't someone ever hear an Airplane once in awhile? Maybe someone on the Island has control over the magnetized field and "draws" in new people through crashes after too many peeps kill themselves off? 'Time for some new specimens, throw the magnetizer switch doohicky".

I love this show, but as i have said before, why don't they all have a "Think tank" of sorts and try to figure some of this stuff out. Why did they drop these supplies off to us, why is there a countdown, why don't we have an organized search party, and search more of this Island for answers? Why don't we build a "Fort" of sorts just in case those crazy others come to our neighborhood to cause trouble..It just seems like this would be a normal process of thinking for people put into a situation like this.

Yes i know its a TV show and that would make to much sense and ruin allot of the intrigue. ;)

Or I may have gotten wrong but when Locke & his Father are at the bar after his father is supposed to be dead he says to Locke if you dont show up or if i donrt see you again Helen's dead. Then later when his is giving him the money in the hotel room his fater asks does his date have a name and Locke replys Helen. Does that make any sense?

"Oh no. Malcom David Kelley looks too old to play Walt now. We have no choice but to cancel the show..."

Or systematically "retire" old cast members and replace them with new ones.

"Oh no. Malcom David Kelley looks too old to play Walt now. We have no choice but to cancel the show..."

Either the Others are experimenting with rapid growth hormones or Walt gets a face transplant. No biggie. ;)

Both points are undeniably true. I don't believe though that either of those deaths would have occurred under different circumstances. The guy in the pit was innocent, and sooner or later that would have been established. Charlie was a threat to Ethan. Hanging is extreme, but perhaps we can consider it a military action. Few believe our troops in Iraq are evil, but they kill regularly.

Charlie was a threat to Ethan because he was forcibly kidnapping Claire!!! Thats like saying when a bank robber kills someone that tries to stop him while robbing a bank, it was self-defense!!!

Or I may have gotten wrong but when Locke & his Father are at the bar after his father is supposed to be dead he says to Locke if you dont show up or if i donrt see you again Helen's dead. Then later when his is giving him the money in the hotel room his fater asks does his date have a name and Locke replys Helen. Does that make any sense?

His dad says if Locke doesn't show up or if he doesn't see him again, he would understand. He said nothing about Helen.

Or I may have gotten wrong but when Locke & his Father are at the bar after his father is supposed to be dead he says to Locke if you dont show up or if i donrt see you again Helen's dead. Then later when his is giving him the money in the hotel room his fater asks does his date have a name and Locke replys Helen. Does that make any sense?

I dont remember hearing that at all , I thought he said "if i dont see you again i`ll understand."

In the Lost podcast this week executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse explained why the Hanso Foundation website is down. They are redesigning it and expect to bring it back in May. They explained that the site will include more Lost mythology that compliments what they show in the episodes. Their hope is that it would help bridge the summer gap between seasons.

What are they doing to bridge the weekly gaps between episodes? :o

I dont remember hearing that at all , I thought he said "if i dont see you again i`ll understand."


i'll have to check again when i get home i did not delete it yet .

I love this show, but as i have said before, why don't they all have a "Think tank" of sorts and try to figure some of this stuff out. Why did they drop these supplies off to us, why is there a countdown, why don't we have an organized search party, and search more of this Island for answers? Why don't we build a "Fort" of sorts just in case those crazy others come to our neighborhood to cause trouble..It just seems like this would be a normal process of thinking for people put into a situation like this.
My guess is that this is what normal, law-abiding Americans would do. All the Lostaways have led screwed up if not criminal lives and that's preventing them from banding together and solving their problems as a group. Everyone is suspicious of each other's motives and there are too many Alpha males promoting their own theories and agendas.

In the first season, things started out well. Sayid and Jack were delegating tasks, Hurley of all people came up with good ideas like taking a census, and whiners like Sawyer had no authority. Once all the freaky stuff started to happen, people got their own ideas and started going on secret missions.

Charlie was a threat to Ethan because he was forcibly kidnapping Claire!!! Thats like saying when a bank robber kills someone that tries to stop him while robbing a bank, it was self-defense!!!

Weren't they (others) going to kill Claire after the baby was born??? Could be wrong...

Everyone is suspicious of each other's motives and there are too many Alpha males promoting their own theories and agendas.


....Oh, I thought you were talking about this forum!

Charlie was a threat to Ethan because he was forcibly kidnapping Claire!!! Thats like saying when a bank robber kills someone that tries to stop him while robbing a bank, it was self-defense!!!
Ya know this Quinocampa feller showed up real late to this thread and isn't it odd how he's defending the actions of the Others? Makes me wonder if he's really one of us. I mean none of us knows who he is, and "Quinocampa" sounds real made up if you ask me...

Charlie was a threat to Ethan because he was forcibly kidnapping Claire!!! Thats like saying when a bank robber kills someone that tries to stop him while robbing a bank, it was self-defense!!!

I'll admit, "self-defense" is a rather inaccurate way to state my point. I retract that phrasing. What I am trying to say is that those "observers" were pushed to react more assertively when they were confronted, in danger of being exposed, or otherwise had their objectives compromised. The Others definitely see our crew as serious adversaries. There is no motivation to iron out any differences and come clean. However, we don't know what is driving them. I believe they are in survival mode, yet organized. They have reasoned that full disclosure will lead to an uncontrollable threatening situation, so they behave pre-emptively. I believe that, once we fully understand their point of view, the moral ground will be muddied. That, in essence, is my point.

Ya know this Quinocampa feller showed up real late to this thread and isn't it odd how he's defending the actions of the Others? Makes me wonder if he's really one of us. I mean none of us knows who he is, and "Quinocampa" sounds real made up if you ask me...

Okay, more armory time for me.

If someone can confirm, does a Minnesota license look like this.Google image search:
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs/ID%20Requirments/FullFacePhotoSample.htm

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/9173/mn31bl.jpg (http://www.maplewoodmn.govoffice.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={F71F0415-C845-4D52-AC88-2B4B4E53F0C0})

This one is the closest to Gale's license shown in last night's episode. It looks like the handwritten date after the signature matches DOB.

Copied for easier comparison:

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/galeLicense.jpg

Rather than being dropped from a plane, I wonder if the supplies got to the island in the same way the balloon, the sailing ship, the research vessel, the Beechcraft, and the Oceanic jet got there (whatever that may be).

Some sort of temporal vortex wormhole dimensional transporter beam I bet.

Rather than being dropped from a plane, I wonder if the supplies got to the island in the same way the balloon, the sailing ship, the research vessel, the Beechcraft, and the Oceanic jet got there (whatever that may be).

Some sort of temporal vortex wormhole dimensional transporter beam I bet.


There was a parachute.

i'll have to check again when i get home i did not delete it yet .Hey, I can see how "I'll understand" could sound a bit like "Helen's dead". "I'll un" is pretty close to Helen. The "der stand" to "is dead', not so much :). Crank up that 5.1 man!


ron

Rather than being dropped from a plane, I wonder if the supplies got to the island in the same way the balloon, the sailing ship, the research vessel, the Beechcraft, and the Oceanic jet got there (whatever that may be).

Some sort of temporal vortex wormhole dimensional transporter beam I bet.

And I get accused of smokin' dope :D

But the best thing about last night's episode is that I finally got to see what a Minnesota Driver's License really looks like.

I don't know....

I think the drop was already in progress and the lockdown was to keep people in the hatch confined during the drop. It could be any reason from not wanting the button pushers to see the drop to not wanting them to be accidently crushed by it.

If the lockdown was to keep people in the Hatch during the drop:

Why would interior doors come down and not just doors leading to the exits? Do we know if other doors came down near the exits, or just the ones creating the area where Locke and (not) Gale were.

Why would there be a timed warning, allowing anyone to leave that really wanted to?

If the occupants could leave before the doors dropped, why lock them in instead of just telling them to stay inside?

One explanation is that the doors were down to protect the occupants from something dangerous outside, and not just a falling crate of supplies. Or possibly, and more likely, the doors were there to protect the occupants from some force (like a super magnetic field) generated from within or connected with the hatch that takes effect periodically for some purpose and which may be associated with the timer.

Google Map of address.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=walnut+ridge+rd,+55391

The town is real but the street isn't there.

I tried Windows Local live and did not put in the zip code and came up with the street in St. Paul MN.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=44.800076~-93.139385&style=o&lvl=2&scene=3989449&sp=adr.Walnut%20Ridge%20Dr%2c%20St%20Paul%2c%20MN%2055123

There was a parachute.

Occam's Razor

I agree. Also, I mentioned earlier, if he's an other, why didn't he run out of the hatch? He had every opportunity to escape.

Because he hasn't yet fulfilled his mission/assignment.

There was a parachute.
Occam's Razor

That was there just to misdirect you. :D

They lock people in so they won't get sucked into the vortex. How do you explain that 1000 mile range Beechcraft travelling 12,000 miles to the island?

One Latin phrase I haven't seen translated yet: "liberte te ex inferus".

Seems like it would be easy if I knew Latin!

"Save yourself from hell"

It's also the name of an album by a band called "Zao".

i'll have to check again when i get home i did not delete it yet .

We have the same rare hearing impairment, regardless of how R11 interprets it! My 5.1 was cranked and I asked my wife, "Did he say Helen is dead?" She said "No, he said 'I'll understand'." Nothing wrong with us, snakeyes1022. ;)

As to the bulk of the new supplies, there's a Maytag refrigerator in there to match the washer and dryer.

...once we fully understand their point of view, the moral ground will be muddied. That, in essence, is my point.No question about it - that certainly lines up with the relativistic view of society that increasing numbers of people are subscribing to.

Unfortunately, in that ideology anything goes if supported by a good enough reason or by enough swayed people, leaving personal rights governed by the wind rather than by universal principles. [soapbox mode off]

One explanation is that the doors were down to protect the occupants from something dangerous outside, and not just a falling crate of supplies. Or possibly, and more likely, the doors were there to protect the occupants from some force (like a super magnetic field) generated from within or connected with the hatch that takes effect periodically for some purpose and which may be associated with the timer.
Here's my guess on how the drop procedure goes. The two Dharma dudes know within a few days that a drop is going to happen. One of them will have the scary job of retrieving the supplies while the other stays in the safe bunker. The unlucky one starts shooting Dharma juice a few days before the drop to build protection from whatever and won't bring it back to the bunker and gets ready for some physical labor.

When Chirstmas morning arrives, they wait for the announcement. The lucky guy stays by the computer while the unlucky guy stays by door. When the doors drop, unlucky guy fights polar bears, Lostzilla, and crazy French chicks to find the drop and drag it back to the hatch. Once he's done that, the lucky guy commands the computer to open the blast doors. If unlucky guy never comes back, then lucky guy is in a bad situation like Desmond was. Did he ever say what happened to his partner?

Hey, I can see how "I'll understand" could sound a bit like "Helen's dead". "I'll un" is pretty close to Helen. The "der stand" to "is dead', not so much :). Crank up that 5.1 man!


ron


i heard 'helen's dead' too...was confused when he asked her name later. i'll listen to it again when I get home tonight.

Anybody want to guess how long "Lost" might last??? The problem (as they are already having with Walt) is that if the story only moves forward a few weeks a season, how do you deal with the real life aging of the cast???


They can pull a BSG and fastfoward one year.

One of the translations from the second image post just above was
ACTIVITY MINIMAL
DURING LOCKDOWN AND
RESTOCKING PROCEDURES

So yeah, it would be as you say.

Agreed. The lockdown is to keep people in the hatch during the food drop. Still not sure why though. But was this related to the countdown timer and pushing the buttons - I don't think so. I think pushing the buttons does nothing, but keeps those in the bunker from going to far and exploring.

Anybody want to guess how long "Lost" might last??? The problem (as they are already having with Walt) is that if the story only moves forward a few weeks a season, how do you deal with the real life aging of the cast???
Character aging would be weird (polar bear.) I can't possibly imagine how they'd explain it (Sun getting pregnant.) I mean, it would be so obvious (black smoke.) They better figure something out (Hanso Foundation) fast, or they'll have to kill off younger actors (Dharma Initiative.) That would really suck (push button every 108 minutes.)

I choose to view the island as lawless, and not actively experimenting. There are reasons motivating The Others to behave the way they are. Some might say they are crazy, literally psycho. However, they are organized, and do crazy humans organize (don't get all Borg / Reevers sci-fi on me)? They appear to have a charismatic leader, the one Mr. Friendly refers to in the medical hatch when Claire is there. We know the children they have stolen are alive -- we've seen glimpses of them. I'm as curious as the rest to know why they've been violent, but I will not accept that they are crazed sacrificing Satan worshipers. If they are stuck, truly stuck on that island, for some reason related to The Incident, then they have to adapt some sort of martial law for resource control, threat management, etc. To me, that explains why they've done what they've done. Again, I don't want to politicize the show, but in the real world we are fighting a war, and there is violence in that war that is not always just, yet we accept it according to the context. In this show, I believe there is context to explain the violence.


All of that sounds very rational, but I have to vehemently disagree.

All of the Other's actions have been offensive in nature, not defensive. They've infiltrated, kidnapped, and murdered and all without provocation. (really not concerned with their point of view at this point).

The most sensible thing the Others have done so far is have Mr Happy tell the losties about the line they shouldn't cross. Good fences make good neighbors.

Here's the legal definition of self-defense:

DEFENSE, SELF-DEFENSE - A defense to certain criminal charges involving force (e.g. murder).

Use of force is justified when a person reasonably believes that it is necessary for the defense of oneself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force. However, a person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances.

Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm is justified in self-defense only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.

Agreed. The lockdown is to keep people in the hatch during the food drop. Still not sure why though. But was this related to the countdown timer and pushing the buttons - I don't think so. I think pushing the buttons does nothing, but keeps those in the bunker from going to far and exploring.It could easily be for the purpose of preventing the drop plane pilot from getting a visual of anybody on the island (in particular the stranded visitors) and/or keeping those in the bunker from having any visual contact with the drop plane. After all, the pilot is probably nothing more than a courier.

Both points are undeniably true. I don't believe though that either of those deaths would have occurred under different circumstances. The guy in the pit was innocent, and sooner or later that would have been established. Charlie was a threat to Ethan. Hanging is extreme, but perhaps we can consider it a military action. Few believe our troops in Iraq are evil, but they kill regularly.

OK, this analogy is even worse. In war at least both sides are aware of the conflict and what the rules of engagement might be.

If a soldier is attacked, he has the legal/moral right under the Rules of War to defend himself.

What was Goodwin's thinking when he released that guy from the pit only to kill him and dispose of the body? Not the act of a soldier, more the act of a spy. And all countries view espionage as a crime, not protected under the rules of war.

Agreed. The lockdown is to keep people in the hatch during the food drop. Still not sure why though.
I thought that
ACTIVITY MINIMAL
DURING LOCKDOWN AND
RESTOCKING PROCEDURES
Just meant that for some reason there are fewer polar bears and Lostzillas running around when there's a drop to pick up. If there are two people in the bunker, I don't see how the button could prevent one of them from wandering around while the other types the numbers.

At some point, the lostaways are going to realize that since the island is being re-supplied, and that others outside the island know they are there, they are not going to be rescued but are destined to be lab rats.

I'm very curious about how quickly and easily "Henry" remembered the numbers to execute, especially since he didn't even ask for a repeat after having been knocked out by his fall.

Now, there's no doubt that some people are specially gifted in that way, but the average joe would need numbers of that significance to be repeated in a stressful situation, particularly after a fall and a bop on the noggin.

I'm thinking that somehow or other Henry had used the numbers before (in that very bunker, because if it had been elsewhere it seems he would've found it tough to hide surprise at the coincidence) and had simply feigned ignorance by asking about the system earlier.

Could Henry have been a former occupant of the bunker?

Did you notice how concerned "Henry" was about how long he was out?

Did you notice how concerned "Henry" was about how long he was out?I thought that was odd, almost makes me wonder if he was faking it to impress Locke even more with his sacrifice for the "team" (he and Locke).

At some point, the lostaways are going to realize that since the island is being re-supplied, and that others outside the island know they are there, they are not going to be rescued but are destined to be lab rats.Any chance the Losties on the beach heard the plane? Or was a storm stirred up by the weather division to hide it?

Maybe it was delivered by Polar Express.

When the so-called Henry asked Locke for immunity against "..no matter what", that should've sent a signal that he had something up his sleeve. At this point, he's stayin in the hatch. All Locke (with his busted leg) can do is beg them not to kill the prisoner.

I think pushing the buttons does nothing, but keeps those in the bunker from going to far and exploring.
That's possible. I've worked in plenty of places where patrolling security has to swipe a card, plug a wand into a special connector, enter a code or some other act to signify they completed a check of each area they are assigned to patrol. They have to do so within a certain time frame. This not only insures all areas are checked, but in a timely manner (no coffee breaks in the middle of rounds).

Perhaps all the numbers do is signify that someone is still at the helm, and, as you said, keeps the operators close. Even with two operators, one can't go to far without risky the other operator failing to fulfill their part for whatever reason.

Dharma headquarters may not no or care who is there, as long as someone is pushing the button That indicates to them someone reliable is performing the task and can potentially be called upon for further tasks. I say this because Desmond apparently was recruited with little concern by Dharma, then allowed to continue alone past his partner's death.

Maybe the whole island is essentially cut off from anywhere else, and resupplies are made on a regular basis to any station that continues to respond to the need to type in the numbers. However, no signal is sent unless that button fails to be pushed. Perhaps all that sound we heard the last time the clock ran down was the communcation systems powering up and potentially a tower being raised to notify Dharma that no one is at the helm. When that happens, no future supplies are sent and a crew is sent in to strip the bunker.

No question about it - that certainly lines up with the relativistic view of society that increasing numbers of people are subscribing to.

Unfortunately, in that ideology anything goes if supported by a good enough reason or by enough swayed people, leaving personal rights governed by the wind rather than by universal principles. [soapbox mode off]

Arnarchy is one of many options in the political spectrum. Literature is also full of isolated-society-goes-amok themes. Too often, the wrong people dictate social mores. The bottom line in this story is -- there must be a catalyst. What is it? Virus? Experimentation following a labrynthian selection and delivery process?

OK, this analogy is even worse. In war at least both sides are aware of the conflict and what the rules of engagement might be.

If a soldier is attacked, he has the legal/moral right under the Rules of War to defend himself.

What was Goodwin's thinking when he released that guy from the pit only to kill him and dispose of the body? Not the act of a soldier, more the act of a spy. And all countries view espionage as a crime, not protected under the rules of war.

Here's what Goodwin was thinking -- there is strong suspicion someone in the group has infiltrated the ranks for a nefarious purpose. The accused goes into the pit. If Goodwin takes him out of the pit, then Goodwin has to answer "why?" to Ana Lucia and anyone siding with her. If he releases AND kills the guy, two things happen -- the impression is left that the bad guy escaped and Goodwin's off the hook, and the falsely accused guy cannot argue the point. It's as simple as that. Goodwin continued afterward under his previously established guise, until Ana Lucia applied some cop-logic and sussed him out. Then it was fight or flee, and he wasn't going to leave Ana to blow his cover.

Ethan's cover was also blown. Also, there was a general awareness of other island inhabitants. His hanging Charlie was meant to send a loud and clear signal -- do not follow! The more he can leave our gang with the impression that they are strong, dangerous, and willing to go as far as it takes, they mightn't pursue. Absence of pursuit means The Others are safer, and continue to be isolated.

A third time, The Others are threatened when Michael goes for Walt. So Mr. Friendly tries to be as reasonable as possible -- we are many, we have guns, we think of you as meddlers, do not cross the line.

The spy vs. soldier contrast is flawed. Every soldier is trained in stealth, evasion, and reconnaissance. More to the point, who says Rules of War have to apply here? There is no law and for the time being, there is no way off the island.

Inquiring minds want to know: Where do they dump all the trash from all those Dharma brand ranch bottles and candy bars?

...resupplies are made on a regular basis to any station that continues to respond to the need to type in the numbers. However, no signal is sent unless that button fails to be pushed...Considering that the items in the food drop they stumbled across had the swan logo on them, you may be on to something.
...Perhaps all that sound we heard the last time the clock ran down was the communcation systems powering up and potentially a tower being raised to notify Dharma that no one is at the helm. When that happens, no future supplies are sent and a crew is sent in to strip the bunker.I'm not so sure that Dharma would assume no one is at the helm just because the clock ran down. I'm certain they would be alarmed by it, however.

I can confirm that the Minnesota License is how they used to look until the recent change. And yes, Wayzata is a city in MN, a suburb of Minneapolis.