Wasn't it all integrated on the old Apples?

Wasn't it all integrated on the old Apples?
Nope - not until the Macintosh.

If anyone can go back and capture a pic of the balloon AL, Sayeed and Charlie find, the logo on it says Widmore!!! I just had the pic emailed to me but don’t know how to post it!! So the real Henry Gale worked for Widmore!!
Maybe the real Henry Gale was sent by Pen to find Desmond and died trying!

It would be helpful if the folks asking about the "new plane crash" would specify whether they are familiar with the well-known sequence of the tail section crash, shown earlier this season, and can state whether that sequence is visually distinct from the "new" sequence they saw Wednesday night after the show was over.

That way if the answers are "no" and "no", we can write that off as inexperience on the part of the viewer. But if the answers are "yes" and "yes", then we can look into it further.

This show will get real stupid fast. they already need a monster on the show because there is only so much you can do with people stranded on an island, one season and done

WRONG sir, WRONG!

Just read the 1st page of this awesome monster thread, and just had to reply to this one :D

http://www.onentofl.com/wdhome.html

Here is another site. Widmore is the brand that Sun used for her pregnancy test. Bizarre they had one lying around.

Any comment regarding my psot of the balloon with Widmore logo? Who can post the pic for me?

It would be helpful if the folks asking about the "new plane crash" would specify whether they are familiar with the well-known sequence of the tail section crash, shown earlier this season, and can state whether that sequence is visually distinct from the "new" sequence they saw Wednesday night after the show was over.

That way if the answers are "no" and "no", we can write that off as inexperience on the part of the viewer. But if the answers are "yes" and "yes", then we can look into it further.yes no.
I would need to see the footage from that episode again, to say for sure. I will say that it did not seem like a glitch. It seemed like this was deliberately shown.

Now I'm wondering how much longer they can make Lost last. I mean nearly all the stuff with the others is out in the open. The Swan is no longer necessary. We have contact with the outside world now because the electromagnetic anomaly was detected. We have Michael possibly getting out. Can they make this last for the 3 or more seasons they said they'd do after this? I guess we still have big questions like what's the security system? Is Dharma still around? Are the others Dharma employees? And will Penny find the island and what will happen if she does?

WRONG sir, WRONG!

Just read the 1st page of this awesome monster thread, and just had to reply to this one :D

It's fun to go back and read the first couple hundred posts after the pilot aired.

If anyone can go back and capture a pic of the balloon AL, Sayeed and Charlie find, the logo on it says Widmore!!! I just had the pic emailed to me but don’t know how to post it!! So the real Henry Gale worked for Widmore!!

Doesn't mean he worked for them...it could be the Widmore just made the balloon or sponsored his trip around the world.

Nope - not until the Macintosh.


Then they can use the monitor from the Pearl station and hook it up to the computer in the Swan.

Could the food drop occured after or during Henry Gale took off to press the button when John was trapped under the door. This could have been another EMF disturbance to allow for this.

On the plane crash a couple rivets coming loose from stress could tear the aluminum shell during the first EMF disturbance. This happened over Hawaii a while back and seats + people were sucked out when a whole section of the plane peeled off.

I'm trying to map this to the force field / snow globe theory, but it's difficult. Knowing the names of the plane crash survivors seems impossible.

yes no.
I would need to see the footage from that episode again, to say for sure. I will say that it did not seem like a glitch. It seemed like this was deliberately shown.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/48days-cap007.jpg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mQsNMyXvn0o&search=other%2048%20days

Did the tail you saw have an Oceanic logo on it?

... they used the word Namaste. The maintenance man in their building, Mr. Treeger, is talking to Ross and says that he won't be able to attend their Yoga class later that day. They end the conversation by saying "Namaste" to each other. Thought it was cool to hear that word come up.
from post #16248 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7642811&&#post7642811), they also used "Namaste" in a Hanso newspaper ad...

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5650/hanso6oj.gif

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=namastenamaste - a bow and gesture of greeting or parting with the palms together in front of the chest; also, expressing respect through this gesture and bow
Etymology: Sanskrit `homage; bowing to you'

Also, what about the whispering voices when they got attacked by the blow darts?

The Others need fresh breeding stock. :)

I assume a heading of 332 leads to the only opening in the mega biosphere.If it's a mega biosphere, how did the plane get inside it? Wouldn't it have crashed into the outside of it?

I pulled up google map and charted Micheal and Walt's soon to be trip toward Fiji, considering the heading and a week travel, they are all in Antarctica.

Considering the boat is averaging 15 mph x 24hours x 7 days= 2520 miles. Long trip!!


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL547/3684429/7592806/149703076.jpg

Lenny,

I believe henry told them to use a heading of 325 (or thereabout). That's roughly NorthWest - about 180 degrees out ftom what you plotted.

Lenny,



I believe henry told them to use a heading of 325 (or thereabout). That's roughly NorthWest - about 180 degrees out ftom what you plotted.

I think the map is right.

Going TO Fiji is heading 325, and then you would be coming from 145, so you are coming from the Southeast, hence putting them near Antarctica.

Very interesting...

The Others need fresh breeding stock.

I assume a heading of 332 leads to the only opening in the mega biosphere.

If it's a mega biosphere, how did the plane get inside it? Wouldn't it have crashed into the outside of it?

Maybe heading 332 isn't the only possible opening. It may just be one that was provided for Michael and Walt to get out. Once through, it will close up and that's why they won't be able to come back.

Not all of an airplane is aluminum, engines, for example.

Noticed the GPS antenna on the Desmond's sailboat.

The pneumatic tubes where unnaturally spread out.

Some interesting jobs at http://www.hansocareers.com/jobsearch.asp.

Organ Courier

The successful applicant will combine not only a working knowledge of tissue-transplantation procedures and the latest pharmaceutical agents involved in this growing field, but also an ability for high-speed travel, diplomacy and an extensive knowledge of transit restrictions and regulations as well as traffic laws around the world. Fluency in at least five languages including French, German, Russian and Chinese is crucial - as is a willingness to achieve fluency in sub-saharan regional and tribal dialects. Knowledge of martial arts, self-defense and extensive weapons training is essential, but applicants willing to receive training in these areas will receive due consideration.

Not all of an airplane is aluminum, engines, for example.

Noticed the GPS antenna on the Desmond's sailboat.

The pneumatic tubes where unnaturally spread out.

Some interesting jobs at [ulr]http://www.hansocareers.com/jobsearch.asp.[/url]

It's good to be a weapons expret when you're working as an Organ Courier. :D

I think the map is right.

Going TO Fiji is heading 325, and then you would be coming from 145, so you are coming from the Southeast, hence putting them near Antarctica.

Very interesting...That might be another explanation for the polar bear.

I just caught up to the thread.

I have to say that I agree with the theory about Walt not really being on the boat with Michael. Not sure if the Losties couldn't see him, though.

I thought the green bird was just some kind of tropical species. Yes, the CGI was bad. But those doubting the reality that the bird wasn't manufactured/genetically engineered, have you ever been to the zoo? THere are some "parrot-looking" birds that get pretty big. I never met one that could talk other than repeating sounds they heard (did anyone say Hurley's name before the bird did?).

I think think everyone is reading into everything way too much.... really, I feel like they don't know entirely what they are doing and they are winging it. We're trying to piece together a logical storyline, while they are just flushing it out.

This whole theory that a plane is aluminium and that's why it wouldn't have been pulled down.... talk about diving into it just a bit much.

Anyways, I still like the show, it's frustrating and I just worry that a lot of these adhoc things wont get answered. Kinda like Alias. Still loved Alias, but man talk about unanswered questions...

Maybe the real Henry Gale was sent by Pen to find Desmond and died trying!
Interesting as a hot air balloon would conceivably be more immune to magnetic influences.

A thought about Desmond's snow globe remark, if he navigated by a compass it stands to reason that he may have been going in circles due to the island's magnetic properties, but if he had used a sextant and navigated by the stars it may have been a different outcome. In fact, it's a little surprising that nobody has tried to figure out where they are by looking at the stars. I guess that would throw a wrench into the storyline though.

The only explosion I saw was the one Eko created with the dynamite. I'm pretty sure that "anomaly" that happened when Desmond turned the key was not an explosion.
I may be late to the party here, but I had a similar thought.

Magnets work both ways, they can attract and repel. So what if the key reversed the magnetic field. The hatchdoor was in a position to be "repelled" up in the air.

Also, what's up with Charlie? He was there for all of it, yet he seems unconcerned about Eko or Locke. Of course, Claire could make you forget a few things. :D

Interesting as a hot air balloon would conceivably be more immune to magnetic influences.

A thought about Desmond's snow globe remark, if he navigated by a compass it stands to reason that he may have been going in circles due to the island's magnetic properties, but if he had used a sextant and navigated by the stars it may have been a different outcome. In fact, it's a little surprising that nobody has tried to figure out where they are by looking at the stars. I guess that would throw a wrench into the storyline though.

I'm guessing the starts would say that they are in Hawaii. ;)

I don't share the sheparding theory that many posters have tossed around this season to explain the coincidences. First, if we buy last night's loose explanation, Desmond caused the plane crash. That was a totally random, accidental occurance. No way Libby, for one, would have chosen the flight to get other lostaways to the island because the crash itself wasn't planned.

There is another way to look at it where it wouldn't be a coincidence:

Kelvin, who goes out into the jungle all the time by himself, may actually be in contact with other folks. Say these other folks tell him "tomorrow, at a certain time, leave the Swan in a suspicious way so that Desmond gets the idea to follow you out. Lead him so far away that he won't be back for quite a long time".

Then while they're both out of the hatch, someone goes in there and sets the controls to bring down the flight.

Is there possibly a connection between Kate not hooking up with anybody and why a fully stocked shelter has no batteries for Hurley's CD player? :)

LMAO!!

I pulled up google map and charted Micheal and Walt's soon to be trip toward Fiji, considering the heading and a week travel, they are all in Antarctica.

Considering the boat is averaging 15 mph x 24hours x 7 days= 2520 miles. Long trip!!


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL547/3684429/7592806/149703076.jpg

Didn't Desmond say he was sailing due west, and was heading for Fiji?

That might be another explanation for the polar bear.

Because there are so many polar bears in Antarctica?

It was taked on to the very end. I can't remember, but it may have even been after "Bad Robot."It must have been after the "Bad Robot" because I didn't see it.

I also hate how the ABC announcer always talks over "Bad Robot." My wife and I thought that was one of the coolest things about the show when we watched it on DVD.

So where is the footage of this post-credits plane crash?

Because there are so many polar bears in Antarctica?
:p

from post #16248 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7642811&&#post7642811), they also used "Namaste" in a Hanso newspaper ad...



Dont any of you people watch "Namaste America" on Saturday mornings? A collection of the Hottest recordings and Films from India. Hot babes and Movie musical clips.

In fact, it's a little surprising that nobody has tried to figure out where they are by looking at the stars.
How many people know how to do that? Don't you need charts and tables? I might be able to figure which hemisphere I'm in. :)

It doesn't seem like there's much of a question of where they are. They're on an island in the South Pacific. I don't know how a more specific location would help them.

4*8*15*16*23*42=7418880 interestingly.
That's very interesting.

And not a coincidence, I am sure...

~Dan

So Walt was too much to handle for these guys? Interesting. I'll bet we haven't seen the last of Walt and Michael.
Especially if Walt has the ability to appear in places where he isn't supposed to be...

~Dan

I just re-read all lines since last night and it seems no one has mentioned Libby and her husband. His name was Dave. Like Hurley vision Dave?

If it's a sphere or dome, the opening could easily extend from the water up into the sky.

The snow globe remark is a writer's reference to the last episode of St. Elsewhere in which it was revealed that the whole series took place inside the snow globe of a boy. The creators/writers of Lost have stated (in Entertainment Weekley I think) that the show is not a snow globe situation. Nor is it purgatory (Gary Troup being an intentional misdirection) according to them.

-Reagan

So why would Desmond keep up injections of something he knew wasn't necessary? When he left the bunker in charge of Locke, he took a supply of the 4815162342 formula.
Perhaps he figures that the vaccine is sufficient to ward off infection alone, without needing the hazmat suit.

Perhaps he believes there is no infection, and the injections aren't needed, but he's doesn't want to risk not takin the injections and getting infected, if he's wrong.

Desmond also once doubted whether entering the code was really necessary, but found out for sure on 9/22/04...

~Dan

Didn't Desmond say he was sailing due west, and was heading for Fiji?

I was just taking the heading given by Henry and the "week" time to Fiji and put them together.

So it appears that Henry really did enter the code and push the button when Locke was trapped under the blast door. Yet he later wants Locke to believe that there is no need to push the button, and the Others/Hostiles don't seem too surprised by the gigantic flash of light. They must have wanted the EMF to go off all along.
That's what I figure, but it begs the question of why he eneterd the code and didn't just let the EMF go...

~Dan

Desmond said he should have been in Fiji in a week, that could put him anywhere within 600- 1400 miles of Fiji, depending on currents and wind.
Light South Pacific breezes, avgerage maybe 6-8 kt. x 24, say 150 miles a day (which is a good day in a sailboat), 1000 nm. That would put Desmond almost anywhere in the South Pacific
Michael was told to head to 325 to safety. I don't remember anything about Fiji being said to Michael. Michael also wasn't told how long to motor till he reached saftey.
Nice map and theory, but I don't think it is supported.

done
worst episode ever
time to remove Lost from my dvr!
Bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The snow globe remark is a writer's reference to the last episode of St. Elsewhere in which it was revealed that the whole series took place inside the snow globe of a boy. The creators/writers of Lost have stated (in Entertainment Weekley I think) that the show is not a snow globe situation. Nor is it purgatory (Gary Troup being an intentional misdirection) according to them.

-Reagan

Argh! I was starting to believe the snowglobe theory. I was thinking they were really in the Antarctica and the electromagnetic field was creating a biodome around them providing a different climate etc.

Perhaps the electromagnetic field was just making the island invisible just like the philadelphia experiment, as suggested by someone else. Isn't it now disabled? If so, does this mean the island can now be seen by others?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/48days-cap007.jpg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mQsNMyXvn0o&search=other%2048%20days

Did the tail you saw have an Oceanic logo on it?
After watching the it on YouTube, I'd say it's the same footage, although only a very small chunk of it. I still think it was a bit odd.

done
worst episode ever
time to remove Lost from my dvr!

Weird. My wife and I both thought it was easily the best episode of the season. YMMV.

Bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.You guys should loosen the hydraulics on the door... it hit me in the ass on the way out. :mad:

You guys should loosen the hydraulics on the door... it hit me in the ass on the way out. :mad:
If we loosened the hydraulics, it would swing even faster... :)

~Dan

I thought of that, too. However, in the world of TV and movies, turning off or destroying the monitor = computer off or dead. Take the grade-changing scene from "War Games" or the final scene of "Stand By Me" as other examples.

Actually, in Stand By Me, Richard Dreyfuss was typing on a "word processor". Not a computer.
I don't know why I remember that.

Dharma animals: The shark with the Dharma tatoo seen after the raft was torched. No explanation or reason for it's existance yet.

The polar bear(s). Was this a breeding experiment (per the black lit wall) or Walt's doing?

The big green bird. I thought it came from a Disney park attraction.

The polar bears were referenced both on the blast door map and the orientation video, not to mention in the Dharma website it says they're working with territorial acclimation in animals or some such. Those polar bears were simply escaped neglected test subjects.

Just in case no one else said so, I'm with you on this.

Well, at least someone picked up on it. But the REAL question is, does that qualify as a spoiler? :P

Didn't someone ask for this pic??

Yep, picture is different too. In one she has her mouth open, the newer one is closed. The background changed too.The background actually looks pretty similar to me. Every detail on Desmond in that photo is spot-on accurate, so I'm thinking they just photoshopped the new chick into it.

Thanks for posting that pic. Maybe Widmore's daughter hired somebody to search for Desmond in a balloon and the Island sucked it in? I bet we'll see something next season about the balloon and if Henry killed him.

That's what I figure, but it begs the question of why he eneterd the code and didn't just let the EMF go...

~Dan

Maybe because he didn't want to be anywhere close when it happenned.

I thought of that, too. However, in the world of TV and movies, turning off or destroying the monitor = computer off or dead. Take the grade-changing scene from "War Games" or the final scene of "Stand By Me" as other examples.

It happened in one of the episodes of "Threshold" recently as well.

My wife and I both thought it was easily the best episode of the season. YMMV.
2 hours of Lost is always better than 1. :)

Didn't Henry tell Michael to keep a heading of 325 (or 335) and he would be rescued? I don't believe he told him he would get to a particular destination.

Someone explain to me what exactly happened when Desmond turned the key. He seemed certain he was going to die but that his action meant everyone else (John included) would live.

Someone explain to me what exactly happened when Desmond turned the key. He seemed certain he was going to die but that his action meant everyone else (John included) would live.

Desmond can't die. He didn't read his book yet.

Originally Posted by Flyer1
so how does demonds girlfriend know to look for electromagnetic activity?

Best question! Unfortunately, the stream of posts is going to lose it. I'm with you though. .

Perhaps she had been tracking his boat when it disappeared being suspicious of her father and with her money and time had people look for some type of anomoly when it disappeared.

They may have noticed an electromagnetic disruption of some sort and began to investigate it further. Then they may have noticed it again during the plane crash and finally recorded/found it during last nights episode...

Again this is just huge speculation.

not sure if this was covered (i searched and read but haven't seen it).

i know the glance shared by Kate and Jack on the dock has been discussed, but does anyone think that they were in on it- with the others?? they had this knowing look as if to say "we're where we want to be" or "it worked"...

that was the way that my wife read it at least! just tossing it out there!!

LMAO!!!...

It was hard for me to read the last 5-6 pages from the floor...ROTFLMAO...

This dumb-ass show has turned smart, intellectual people into babbling idiots...it's just a TV show...and a poorly written one at that!

LMAO!!!...

It was hard for me to read the last 5-6 pages from the floor...ROTFLMAO...

This dumb-ass show has turned smart, intellectual people into babbling idiots...it's just a TV show...and a poorly written one at that!

Exactly which show(s) do you find more compelling than this one? If you find it so distasteful, why are you reading >5 pages of posts about it?

Originally Posted by ak3883
WRONG sir, WRONG!
Just read the 1st page of this awesome monster thread, and just had to reply to this one

It's fun to go back and read the first couple hundred posts after the pilot aired.

Speaking of older ones try this one, lots of predictions here, mostly false now:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6315542&&#post6315542

Didn't Henry tell Michael to keep a heading of 325 (or 335) and he would be rescued? I don't believe he told him he would get to a particular destination.

I think Henry emphasized it would NOT get him to land, but it would get him rescued (presumably at sea).

2 hours of Lost is always better than 1. :)
Except when it's a recap episode followed by a rerun from season one.

If anyone can go back and capture a pic of the balloon AL, Sayeed and Charlie find, the logo on it says Widmore!!! I just had the pic emailed to me but don’t know how to post it!! So the real Henry Gale worked for Widmore!!


Oh boy...I can't wait to get to the end of these pages to see how this one's handled...

Desmond can't die. He didn't read his book yet.

I thought it was weird that he didn't take it with him when he left the hatch (he went and got it from the shelf to get the key out).

Also, did anyone else notice the production error with the letter from "Pen"? Although they both said the same thing (and all of it wasn't read), there were distinctly different copies of the letter when they showed the whole letter vs. the close up on the bottom half.

I'm at work, so I can't get screenshots, and abc.com doesn't have enough resolution to make out the words.

Note, that this is nothing really important, just something my wife and I noticed.

i know the glance shared by Kate and Jack on the dock has been discussed, but does anyone think that they were in on it- with the others?? they had this knowing look as if to say "we're where we want to be" or "it worked"...
Seem more like a "we'll make our move soon, so follow my lead" kind of look to me.

Seem more like a "we'll make our move soon, so follow my lead" kind of look to me.

i agree -- that's what my first impression was and i know most people on the boards thought the same - but my wife watched it today and when she said that she thought they may be in on it- i looked at the entire glance differently -- kind of like a Rorshack test i guess!

Well, at least someone picked up on it. But the REAL question is, does that qualify as a spoiler? :P

It does if you haven't seen Stripes yet... ;)

Is there possibly a connection between Kate not hooking up with anybody and why a fully stocked shelter has no batteries for Hurley's CD player? :)If Kate confiscated Hurley's batteries and Anna Lucia isn’t around anymore, how do Jack & Sawyer handle themselves? :D

meanwhile in some God-forsaken frozen wasteland...

">/ 7418880
Electromagnetic
Anomaly
Detected

Miss Widmore?

It's us.

I think we found it."

Regarding the speculation of EMF effect on the mostly aluminum airplane not causing it to crash. In last night's episode I noticed during the system failure-EMF runaway scene when everything was flying toward and sticking to the concrete block wall, some aluminum pans and what appeared to be a stainless steel cart were attracted along with the other metal objects. Maybe it's more than magnetic attraction at work.

Actually, in Stand By Me, Richard Dreyfuss was typing on a "word processor". Not a computer.
I don't know why I remember that.
It wasn't a word processor. It was none other than an old school IBM PC. It's incorrectly called a word processor on IMDB, though that's about all that particular system was good for. It only had 256K of memory (later models had 512K and a very small capacity hard drive).

good christ people, lay some of this stuff to rest...

the plane made out of aluminum, the tail section crashing into the water, the picture of Pen...you just have to accept the answers and move on...


As for the writers not knowing where the story is headed, this is an utter load of BS. If you listen to the podcasts, you would know that they had the finale planned out from the begining of this season, and they have the rest of the seasons planned out as well (maybe not down to every detail that takes place in the 42 minutes of every episode) but enough to have a logical storyline. I think they do an amazing job of tying everything together.

If anyone listened to this week's podcast, you can tell Lindelof and Cuse are really playing up the Hanso foundation portion of the show saying "its a real organization" and they are "mad that the Lost creators are using their name." (This is further apparent by McInterye's interview on Kimmel last night and althought it was pretty lame, it at least shows that they want to keep Lost viewers interested during the next few hard months) I love how devoted they are to selling the mythology of Lost...I can't think of any other shows that have even come close to this level of involvement post-airing.

Can't wait to listen to the Finale Podcast that goes up Monday of next week...should be some juicy information to keep us held over till the Fall...

Can someone post a pic of the remains of the statue?

Great line: Sayid says something like: "I don't know what's more disturbing...the fact that most of the statue is gone, or that it has four toes." :eek:

It seems like a lot of people think that Walt was just a vision on the boat with Michael??? Didn't they show the two of them hugging? You can't "hug" a vision, can you? Or am I being too logical for a Lost discussion thread :p

havent seen this mentioned -
at the end of the show, the guy who makes the call to desmonds girlfriend from the snowy monitoring post looks like the spitting image of matthew fox (jack) with glasses and a hat. can anyone pull this up and look or maybe post a side by side? i remember hearing theories about clones and remember something about a book "bad twin" and i swear it looked just like him.

It seems like a lot of people think that Walt was just a vision on the boat with Michael??? Didn't they show the two of them hugging? You can't "hug" a vision, can you? Or am I being too logical for a Lost discussion thread :p
As someone else mentioned - Hurley put his arm around Dave.

She's been a recurring character on CSI:NY since the beginning, and she was the FBI supervisor (sans UK accent) in Sleeper Cell. This was her first appearance on Lost, though.

If it hasn't already been posted...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0907427/

Michael seems pretty consumed right now - I don't think he is coming back unless Walt forces him to.He did seem to shown genuine concern at leaving the rest behind. And I'm having a really hard time believing faux-Henry put enough gas in that boat to go very far. Whether the tank is low or Walt freaks out, he'll be back.

Again; if Sayid catches Mike without the newly-captured Losties, it'll take Walt to convince him not to kill his dad.

so confused and reading this is making it worse - desmonds GF's father - he is associated with the island? Is that a fact or speculation? have we seen him before??? also, the guy that desmond was in the hatch with, have we seen him somewhere else? and am i the only one who immediatly of planet of the apes when you see the broken off foot statue?

Last night's airing is the first episode of Lost I've watched. Very confusing. Can anyone explain what's going on?

so confused and reading this is making it worse - desmonds GF's father - he is associated with the island? Is that a fact or speculation? have we seen him before??? also, the guy that desmond was in the hatch with, have we seen him somewhere else? and am i the only one who immediatly of planet of the apes when you see the broken off foot statue?

Widmoore has many connections to the Island...and many connections to Dharma...you have to dig...this is fact.

Kelvin was the guy who trained Sayid to torture people (Clancy Brown)

Last night's airing is the first episode of Lost I've watched. Very confusing. Can anyone explain what's going on?

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

As someone else mentioned - Hurley put his arm around Dave.

He put his arm on the back of Dave's chair, not on his body.... You notice also in movies like Sixth Sense, even though they are constantly interacting with someone that is not there, you never see them touch each other or physically interact.

So unless they show a flashback next season to that "hug" between Michael and Walt and do it like they did with Hurley, where they show Michael hugging nothing, it's probably real. Also, whenever Walt appeared to Shannon, he was dripping wet and talking backwards.

Last night's airing is the first episode of Lost I've watched. Very confusing. Can anyone explain what's going on?
Are you serious?
Oh I get it, you are a writer for Lost and need help to get ideas and theories for next season. In that case the "others" need for Kate to be naked(a lot) so their plan won't fail. :)

Last night's airing is the first episode of Lost I've watched. Very confusing. Can anyone explain what's going on?

ROTFLMAO! also. Is this sarcasm? If not then don't bother trying to understand what's going on. Why? Because no one knows what is going on. This show should be called "?" because that is all they do is raise questions, with no answers.

Regarding the speculation of EMF effect on the mostly aluminum airplane not causing it to crash. In last night's episode I noticed during the system failure-EMF runaway scene when everything was flying toward and sticking to the concrete block wall, some aluminum pans and what appeared to be a stainless steel cart were attracted along with the other metal objects. Maybe it's more than magnetic attraction at work.

what physical principle do you know of that attracts aluminum? Some stainless steels are magnetic. Can metallurgical content be discerned from a television image?

She's been a recurring character on CSI:NY since the beginning, and she was the FBI supervisor (sans UK accent) in Sleeper Cell. This was her first appearance on Lost, though.

I've seen her at Macy's! Perhaps we should open a new thread focusing on sightings of this actress.

and am i the only one who immediatly of planet of the apes when you see the broken off foot statue?

close-- i immediately thought of planet of the apes when desmond was going after Kelvin after he left the hatch..

Desmond can't die. He didn't read his book yet.Oh great....

Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!

^^I think of the Planet of the Apes often while watching Lost. For some reason when they show everyone hiking or they show the others. The theme music for the others especially.

Penelope. Looking for her love lost at sea. Reminds me of Ulysses (and the James Joyce version mentions the Earl of Desmond, as well).

It goes farther back than Joyce, all the way to Homer. Like Persephone from the web game, Penelope is from Greek mythology -- she was the wife of Odysseus/Ulysses, the King of Ithaca, who spent 10 years trying to get home after the Trojan War.

Penelope was canny in avoiding the increasingly unpleasant pressure from suitors for her to remarry, and remained faithful to Odysseus until he finally returned from his long, difficult journey, although he'd been long since given up for dead.

And on an unrelated note, yeah, the big foot reminded me of the Argonath. If it, you know, had 4 toes :)

havent seen this mentioned -
at the end of the show, the guy who makes the call to desmonds girlfriend from the snowy monitoring post looks like the spitting image of matthew fox (jack) with glasses and a hat. can anyone pull this up and look or maybe post a side by side? i remember hearing theories about clones and remember something about a book "bad twin" and i swear it looked just like him.Dang it! I was just about to post that. I swore the guy in the icy place was Jack in another outfit too. Can someone confirm if it was him or not?

Also, didn't the last part in the snow world look different from a video quality standpoint? It seemed like a PAL transfer. It had that BBC America quality to it. Anyone else notice that?

I wonder if Michael and Walt will be back for season 4, after they go "around the world" and come back to the same island. Henry was telling the truth... but the island IS rescue... from the endless empty sea

It seems like a lot of people think that Walt was just a vision on the boat with Michael??? Didn't they show the two of them hugging? You can't "hug" a vision, can you? Or am I being too logical for a Lost discussion thread :p

I re-watched that whole scene again. I don't see how anyone could guess that Walt wasn't really there. As the boat is leaving, you can clearly see both Michael and Walt on the boat and Jack, Kate and Sawyer are staring right at both of them. And they are both looking right back.

The women are clearly different... different shirts, facial expression. However, what's really weird, look closely at Desmond. Everything appears exactly the same on him in each picture, even down to the placement of the shadows and lines from the sun. So the woman had to have been photoshopped into each picture because they couldnt have recreated the lighting, and Desmond's expression, that perfectly in each shot.
http://kjordan.net/penny1.jpg
http://folk.ntnu.no/jonkjeti/Lost/Desmond-bilde.jpg
maybe the girl they got to pose for the first pic wasnt a actress so they just faked it with the new chick - or maybe she was but it didnt work out.

Widmoore has many connections to the Island...and many connections to Dharma...you have to dig...this is fact.

Kelvin was the guy who trained Sayid to torture people (Clancy Brown)
oh yea sayids guy, i knew he looked familiar. But how does widmoore have connections??? I cant dig through 8 million pages, im having a hard time catching up from last nights posts, has it been confirmed on the show somewhere? Or just via thse crazy websites we keep getting. Not sure i trust anything on the websites as fact.

I definetly saw the footage of the plane crash at the end. It was after "bad robot", after the credits. First they showed a promo for an ABC show, then an out of place "Stay tuned for your local news and nightline" both of these while the credits were still rolling on the bottom fifth of the screen. It appeared after that, lasted 5 seconds.
[stuff deleted]

It lasted about 5 seconds, and sure looked like the first 5 seconds of the hour recap that started at 8:00(which was the same show about 4 weeks ago before they started these last 3-4 episodes in May). Shows the plane from afar, crashing into the water. I thought maybe it was a station/programming glitch, because I believe it happened at 11:00, and IMMEDIATLY after it was over the intro to my station's 11:00 news started up.

Its sounding like it was just a station glitch, not all markets saw this people are reporting. But with this show, you learn to question EVERYTHING :cool:

WPVI-DT in Philadelphia has a habit of showing the west coast feed at 11pm instead of showing the local news. When I first started watching WPVI-DT in 2002 they did this most every night. They sometimes continued showing the west coast feed for up to 20 minutes. It is much rarer now.

Speaking of WPVI-DT they also seem to have a problem with a 3 second audio dropout at least once an hour with all their HD programs.

Are you serious?
Oh I get it, you are a writer for Lost and need help to get ideas and theories for next season. In that case the "others" need for Kate to be naked(a lot) so their plan won't fail. :)

I would like to vote that we get to see Penny in a bikini as well (or at the very least a bikini top).

Dang it! I was just about to post that. I swore the guy in the icy place was Jack in another outfit too. Can someone confirm if it was him or not?

Also, didn't the last part in the snow world look different from a video quality standpoint? It seemed like a PAL transfer. It had that BBC America quality to it. Anyone else notice that?


http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/05/25/no-i-am-not-jack/

On old Apples, the monitor and keyboard are one unit.

Mark

I thought of that, too. However, in the world of TV and movies, turning off or destroying the monitor = computer off or dead. Take the grade-changing scene from "War Games" or the final scene of "Stand By Me" as other examples.

done
worst episode ever
time to remove Lost from my dvr!
See ya...

I may be late to the party here, but I had a similar thought.

Magnets work both ways, they can attract and repel. So what if the key reversed the magnetic field. The hatchdoor was in a position to be "repelled" up in the air.

Also, what's up with Charlie? He was there for all of it, yet he seems unconcerned about Eko or Locke. Of course, Claire could make you forget a few things. :D

Maybe it's not really Charlie? Also in regards to Walt not beintg on the boat. Michael definitely hugged someone so someone is on the boat with him. We have confirmation that Walt can poject his image but can he project it over another person? I'm doubtful.

Who said they were going to Fiji? Desmond thought heading West would take him to Fiji but he didn't necessarily know where the island is.

Mark

I pulled up google map and charted Micheal and Walt's soon to be trip toward Fiji, considering the heading and a week travel, they are all in Antarctica.

Considering the boat is averaging 15 mph x 24hours x 7 days= 2520 miles. Long trip!!

I think we figured out earlier that based on the plane heading and time - Howland Island was a real possibility. We also assumed at that time that it was a "real" island in existence. But that was also alligning them with Amelia's last flight because of speculation the dead couple in the cave was her +1.

Dang it! I was just about to post that. I swore the guy in the icy place was Jack in another outfit too. Can someone confirm if it was him or not?


x3.

I hope someone with a DVR will post some screen shots, or at least take a look and tell us. I thought that it might be a hint about cloning, etc. for the future of the show.

Bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

You mean don't let the hatch hit you in the ass on your way out.

If you can program a computer to regulate the electro-magnetic properties,
You just made me think of something I haven't seen discussed here, and if it has, then I have missed it as I have read 90+% of the 17K posts.

The screen/monitor is an old 70's/80's era CRT. What happens to a CRT when you place a magenetic field near it? It can make it darn near unviewable. Ever place speakers near an old TV and watch the colors warp?

So why when Desmond was late getting back to push the button and the EMF wa already starting to strengthen, how was the monitor still able to clearly show "System Failure"?

Just wondering.

You do realize that Lost is not real don't you? :)

Mark

...Not sure i trust anything on the websites as fact.

x3.

I hope someone with a DVR will post some screen shots, or at least take a look and tell us. I thought that it might be a hint about cloning, etc. for the future of the show.

It was not him. The actor listed in the credits is Len Cordova. There's a picture of him on his IMDB page and if you compare it to the screen captures, it's definitely him in the ice station. He also looks a lot like Matthew Fox, which has to be intentional.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0502653/

Last night's airing is the first episode of Lost I've watched. Very confusing. Can anyone explain what's going on?
Funny... :)

You do realize that Lost is not real don't you? :)

Mark
thats what they want you to think

On old Apples, the monitor and keyboard are one unit.

Mark
Nope. The monitor sits on top of the CPU/Keyboard (which are one unit), but the monitor has always been separate (until the Lisa, then the Mac.) I have an Apple II, and a IIe in my basement.

You just made me think of something I haven't seen discussed here, and if it has, then I have missed it as I have read 90+% of the 17K posts.

The screen/monitor is an old 70's/80's era CRT. What happens to a CRT when you place a magenetic field near it? It can make it darn near unviewable. Ever place speakers near an old TV and watch the colors warp?

So why when Desmond was late getting back to push the button and the EMF wa already starting to strengthen, how was the monitor still able to clearly show "System Failure"?

Just wondering.

Because they can't account for every single insignificant detail that us crazies can find? Its a TV show folks, and they have to put out an episode per week (if we're lucky), they don't have months and months to edit this thing...

http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/05/25/no-i-am-not-jack/

He kinda looks like the crazy scientist guy (Brent Spiner) from Independence Day...
http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/05/iamnotjack.png
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Agency/4014/gspiner/gspiner003.jpg

Does anyone know when the will be re-airing the season final? My darn DVR didnt record the last 20 minutes, and I am going freaking nuts not knowing how this wraps up.

Does anyone know when the will be re-airing the season final? My darn DVR didnt record the last 20 minutes, and I am going freaking nuts not knowing how this wraps up.

Can't you watch it online at abc.com?

Can't you watch it online at abc.com?


No, only American viewers can access the full episodes. Which I must add, makes no freaking sense at all.

No, only American viewers can access the full episodes. Which I must add, makes no freaking sense at all.

You are in Canada? How does the website know where you are? Is it based on your IP address or something? Interesting.

Whew! Took me all day to get to the end. I just don't see Henry Gale giving up Walt, or the boat, to Michael. Now they really have me wondering about Libby/Elizabeth. Lots of doors opened for next season to explore. I may have been watching the EMF thing a little too intently. This morning when I woke up I felt, somehow, different.... I wasn't still sleepy like usual but energized instead. I was actually happy to go to work. There were no traffic jams on the way. Then when I pulled up AVS Forum to read the LOST thread Dynot was on my buddy list :confused:. Freaky...


ron

Two questions:

(1) What explosion or other event caused the "quarantine" hatch cover to be propelled way up into the sky with such imparted kinetic energy? It sure landed back on the beach with a very high speed, so something must have ejected it up with comparable energy.

Certainly wasn't one stick of dynamite inside the hatch, which was insufficient to kill Charlie (and likely not Eko either).

EMF pulse, repelling it like a bullet?

(2) What is the seemingly infinite power source that runs all the equipment in the hatches and also requires no human maintenance or monitoring? Nuclear? Oil? Coal? Solar?

Did I miss something during the season which explained this?

Nope. The monitor sits on top of the CPU/Keyboard (which are one unit), but the monitor has always been separate (until the Lisa, then the Mac.) I have an Apple II, and a IIe in my basement.
Correct.

Ah, the Lisa. The most insanely priced Apple ever. I think that thing was over $4000 about 30 years ago - which is still a lot of money, even for a modern Mac. Of course, my family had an IBM PC Jr which was a bargain in 1982 at just $2200 for all of about 128K of memory, but had a monitor that produced 3 colors, plus black and white while most others were monochrome.

I grew up on both those old Apples and the early IBM/Compaq systems. Oregon trail and L.O.G.O. were the bomb back then. Windows? We didn't need no stinkin' Windows. It was all about Pascall, Basic and DOS. When we saw our first Mac (an all-in-one with the handle on the back) we ooohed and aahhed over the black and white screen (no green monochrome) and the 800K 3.5" drive (no hole of death in the floppy disc). Later on, when the first SE arrived, we thought the Flying Toasters in After Dark was quite possibly the coolest thing ever - that and a utility called "Mac Puke" that would make a barf noise whenever the power eject would pop a disk out of a drive.

Apples have always been the coolest systems...

Sorry to go off on a tangent like that. Serious memories were invoked, there... ;)

Correct.

Ah, the Lisa. The most insanely priced Apple ever. I think that thing was over $4000 about 30 years ago - which is still a lot of money, even for a modern Mac. Of course, my family had an IBM PC Jr which was a bargain in 1982 at just $2200 for all of about 128K of memory, but had a monitor that produced 3 colors, plus black and white while most others were monochrome.

I grew up on both those old Apples and the early IBM/Compaq systems. Oregon trail and L.O.G.O. were the bomb back then. Windows? We didn't need no stinkin' Windows. It was all about Pascall, Basic and DOS. When we saw our first Mac (an all-in-one with the handle on the back) we ooohed and aahhed over the black and white screen (no green monochrome) and the 800K 3.5" drive (no hole of death in the floppy disc). Later on, when the first SE arrived, we thought the Flying Toasters in After Dark was quite possibly the coolest thing ever - that and a utility called "Mac Puke" that would make a barf noise whenever the power eject would pop a disk out of a drive.

Apples have always been the coolest systems...

Sorry to go off on a tangent like that. Serious memories were invoked, there... ;)
Well Sonny, back in my day...




just kidding :)

Two questions:

(1) What explosion or other event caused the "quarantine" hatch cover to be propelled way up into the sky with such imparted kinetic energy? It sure landed back on the beach with a very high speed, so something must have ejected it up with comparable energy.

Certainly wasn't one stick of dynamite inside the hatch, which was insufficient to kill Charlie (and likely not Eko either).

EMF pulse, repelling it like a bullet?

We don't know

(2) What is the seemingly infinite power source that runs all the equipment in the hatches and also requires no human maintenance or monitoring? Nuclear? Oil? Coal? Solar?

Did I miss something during the season which explained this?

We don't know

WPVI-DT in Philadelphia has a habit of showing the west coast feed at 11pm instead of showing the local news. When I first started watching WPVI-DT in 2002 they did this most every night. They sometimes continued showing the west coast feed for up to 20 minutes. It is much rarer now.

Speaking of WPVI-DT they also seem to have a problem with a 3 second audio dropout at least once an hour with all their HD programs.

I went back and watched it, I DID get the "2nd" plane crash on my DVR before I stopped it. It sure looked exactly the same as the tail section going in, and it had the TV 14 in the corner, making it really sound like this was the west coast feed, for 5 seconds. Makes sense to me. After the commercials, the show is done, a local commercial or two or straight to the 11:00 news, the network feed is done at 11:00.

One other thing, I watched it again tonight, someone mentioned after the white light and the key was turned, Claire/Charlie were together again. The opposite of before. The others released Hurley. No longer bad luck for him, but good luck......

Someone wanted a capture of the foot, here it is below. I got the whole show moved over to my PC from my DVR(in HD) and can get captures pretty easily when I'm not at work during the day.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/9366/foot0la.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4138/foot24lg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Is the guy in the hatch with Desmond the same guy who got Sayid into interrogation in the first place?

Is the guy in the hatch with Desmond the same guy who got Sayid into interrogation in the first place?

Yes, that's him.

I stand corrected. I remember them as inseperable but now that you mention it, it was the weight of the monitor on top of the keyboard that held it all together.

Mark

Nope. The monitor sits on top of the CPU/Keyboard (which are one unit), but the monitor has always been separate (until the Lisa, then the Mac.) I have an Apple II, and a IIe in my basement.

Charlie split from Eko's side on his way out the door of The Swan. From that point forward, he lost track of him. Charlie's ears are ringing badly, and he's trying to make his way back to camp. Since he was intent on escaping, his assumption was that everyone else inside was escaping also. He was surprised that Eko and Locke hadn't been seen back in camp. Since people go in every direction around camp, he didn't worry that he hadn't seen him yet. Instead, he was intent on hooking up with Claire, which is a natural desire, especially when sore and having experienced an intense, dangerous situation (like with Bullock and Reeves in Speed). His polarity has not been magnetically reversed. The show does try somewhat to aim for reasonable explanations.

I loved The Foot statue. However, I'm not going to obsess over it. What I think it tried to establish is that the island has a very long history, and has had meaning to many cultures. Long before Dharma, some ancient civilization erected their statue, and it has been reduced to the lone foot. It is like Easter Island -- who knows who or why, its just there.

I'm assuming The Swan is finished. We got so very little use of that extravagant map and it will go nowhere. Watching Calvin prepare his invisible ink made me wonder -- why? Why invisible? Who the frag cares that the occupants are drawing a map?! ESPECIALLY when the door can be retracted. It was the biggest reveal of the season and it wound up leading nowhere.

Yes, that's him.It's the same actor, but why was he credited as Joe Inman in that episode, but his name is Kelvin Inman in the finale? Why just change your first name if you're trying to hide something? If he knew Sayid was going to make it to the island, he also knew that none of the Losties would ever talk to each other, so Sayid would never find out "Kelvin's" last name.

why was he credited as Joe Inman in that episode, but his name is Kelvin Inman in the finale?Because all of the Dharmites seem to need a first name that ends with N.

Alvin Hanso, Ethan Rom, Calvin Inman, Nathan, Goodman, .... anybody else?

It's the same actor, but why was he credited as Joe Inman in that episode, but his name is Kelvin Inman in the finale? Why just change your first name if you're trying to hide something? If he knew Sayid was going to make it to the island, he also knew that none of the Losties would ever talk to each other, so Sayid would never find out "Kelvin's" last name.

Maybe they're Bad Twin brothahs.

After reading through all the posts since last night, I don't think anyone mentioned this- the irony in Locke believing he was going to save them by not being a slave to the button, then seeing what was happening by not pressing the button and thinking he made a mistake, but then in reality he did save them since Pen apparently is looking for Desmond and now may have found them because of the "magnetic anomaly". I thought this was both kind of funny and great, and it's the things like this that make the show so great. Because of this, I would be disappointed if Locke was dead since he could be considered the hero.

I've also been thinking for quite a while now that all it's going to take is one person to keep looking for them, just one person, and it wouldn't hurt if that person had money! I should have posted this a long time ago! When she met Desmond for his running and said she has money, and then in the letter she wrote where she wrote all it takes is "one person who truly loves us," I was thinking the writers were hammering the point home that all it takes(took) was one person.

I thought the finale was great, answered plenty of questions, and left plenty more to wonder about. I believe way too many people are over-analyzing things just a bit(!), and if you don't like things, then stop posting so others and I don't have to read so much!?!??!!!

I loved The Foot statue. However, I'm not going to obsess over it. What I think it tried to establish is that the island has a very long history, and has had meaning to many cultures. Long before Dharma, some ancient civilization erected their statue, and it has been reduced to the lone foot. It is like Easter Island -- who knows who or why, its just there.


When I saw the foot, I immediately thought of the Colossus of Rhodes, one of the lost Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Certainly no relation as that island is off of Greece. Just reminded me...


P.S. has anyone mentioned the fact that Michael has developed large lesions on his skin?

anyone else pickup the original Planet of the Apes (1968) references ably notaround area of the shipwreck (plane wreck in POTA).

music was a homage to the score and when the 3 astronauts were walking around the desert in the beginning.

army guy (now bunkermate) says to desmond "that's the spirit" (which taylor said at the end to the young chimp before he got on the horse with Nova)

the layered rocks desmond and sayid were climbing on and filming method

perhaps some others if you watch it again. did any of the postcasts or interviews ever mention POTA as an influence?

Because all of the Dharmites seem to need a first name that ends with N.

Alvin Hanso, Ethan Rom, Calvin Inman, Nathan, Goodman, .... anybody else?

Henryn

Hey, did you all notice (I didn't) that they forgot to take Vincent with them on the boat?

Henryn
Tomn, Deen

Well, with them taking the Losties 'home', I imagine we'll get to see some faux Henry Gale backstories next season, and perhaps some of the other Others as well

When "Pen" arrives at the "Lost" island next season... she will find that Desmond has blown himself to Kingdom Come... and will hook up with an available Jack because Kate will be pregnant with Sawyer's "love child." :)

can't you watch it on www.abc.com?


No, only American viewers can access the full episodes. Which I must add, makes no freaking sense at all.

The web site must be checking your IP address to determine your location. You might try one of the anonymous proxy servers like this:

http://proxify.com/

It should disguise your location.

[QUOTE=DSperber]Two questions:

(1) What explosion or other event caused the "quarantine" hatch cover to be propelled way up into the sky with such imparted kinetic energy? It sure landed back on the beach with a very high speed, so something must have ejected it up with comparable energy.

Certainly wasn't one stick of dynamite inside the hatch, which was insufficient to kill Charlie (and likely not Eko either).

EMF pulse, repelling it like a bullet?

QUOTE]Has anyone considered this wasn't from the Swan hatch? That cover wasn't sitting on the hole but next to it. So if it was from the Swan the whole shelter is gone. From looking at the Map drawn on the blast door it seemed as though on the other side of the magnetic wall there was a tunnel leading somewhere else. Maybe it blew open another hatch door?

I just read an article in the local fish wrapper in which Lindelhof states that the final few minutes of the finale were "incredibly important to the larger story...particularly since this was the first time in 49 hours of the show that "Lost" went off the island in the present, rather than a flashback."

In that context, Lindelof is quoted as saying "it's time to actually blow up several theories of the show...people who believe they're in purgatory or that they're subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world."

There's some grist for the mill! :)

We don't know



We don't know


I thought they were chalking up power to geothermal.

In that context, Lindelof is quoted as saying "it's time to actually blow up several theories of the show...people who believe they're in purgatory or that they're subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world."

I don't see how showing the outside world for the first time would blow up the experiment theory.

You just made me think of something I haven't seen discussed here, and if it has, then I have missed it as I have read 90+% of the 17K posts.

The screen/monitor is an old 70's/80's era CRT. What happens to a CRT when you place a magenetic field near it? It can make it darn near unviewable. Ever place speakers near an old TV and watch the colors warp?

So why when Desmond was late getting back to push the button and the EMF wa already starting to strengthen, how was the monitor still able to clearly show "System Failure"?

Just wondering.

Man that computer has some great shielding. Now only if my XBR960's shielding was that good... :(

I thought they were chalking up power to geothermal.

IIRC, it was Sayid who suggested that to Jack when they were first exploring the hatch.

Alvin Hanso, Ethan Rom, Calvin Inman, Nathan, Goodman, .... anybody else? Not that there haven't been enough rebuttals already, but it's Alvar.

I'm going for the Bad Twin idea.

it's Alvar.Thank you, I was just about to say something...

I guess most of this is a moot point now, what with the hatch being blown to smithereens, and maybe I'm looking at this too much from a computer programmer point of view, but getting back to my thoughts on the code and the EMF, why require numbers at all? If you wanted to maintain some sort of human interaction to make sure it didn't go bad, fine. But why couldn't you program those numbers into the computer so you only had to press the execute button? Did we ever see anyone type in the incorrect numbers? Also, there's the fact that Michael was using it for something else and the world didn't end.I wonder what would have happened...

I still say the button-pushing, while necessary on some levels, was still an experiment in some way.

I'm assuming The Swan is finished. We got so very little use of that extravagant map and it will go nowhere. Watching Calvin prepare his invisible ink made me wonder -- why? Why invisible? Who the frag cares that the occupants are drawing a map?! ESPECIALLY when the door can be retracted. It was the biggest reveal of the season and it wound up leading nowhere.

Jack picked up the map that Locke sketched and sent into the air tube vacuum.

I just read an article in the local fish wrapper in which Lindelhof states that the final few minutes of the finale were "incredibly important to the larger story...particularly since this was the first time in 49 hours of the show that "Lost" went off the island in the present, rather than a flashback."

In that context, Lindelof is quoted as saying "it's time to actually blow up several theories of the show...people who believe they're in purgatory or that they're subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world."

There's some grist for the mill! :)

Well of course there were some of us that always knew this. The others are just stubborn.

I still don't understand how a plane crashes from ~30,000 feet and anyone survives... all because of a BIG magnet? Even Star-Trek made more sense… :rolleyes:

One thing I am slightly confused about after reading this thread:

Is it the concensus that Whitmore made Desmond race around the world? That is the take I am getting from some posts.

I thought he chose to race around the world because Whitmore sponsored the race and if Desmond won, Whitmore would have to deal with him publically. And of course his daughter would know who won the race daddy sponsored.

Makes me wonder if Libby (Elizabeth) was Whitmore's wife.

I thought Libby's hubby was named Dave? Unless his middle name is Charles or something?

I guess most of this is a moot point now, what with the hatch being blown to smithereens...

Why would the hatch be blown up? It was an electromagnetice pulse, not an explosion. I'm betting that Locke, Eko, and Desmond are all still alive and the hatch is intact. I think the Hatch door falling from the sky is meant to lead you astray. :D

I still don't understand how a plane crashes from ~30,000 feet and anyone survives... all because of a BIG magnet? Even Star-Trek made more sense… :rolleyes:


Maybe the magnet knocks out all the communications and navigational equipment, so they start to descend for some reason (maybe the magnet is strong enough to "pull" them in). Regardless, my thought is that the plan didn't break apart at 30,000 feet, but much closer to the ground. Still pretty far fetched that people would survive.

From the view out the back of the plane (sans tail), they weren't close to the ground at all.

Not close to the ground...but closer than 30,000 feet. Anyone have a screen cap of that view?

so confused and reading this is making it worse - desmonds GF's father - he is associated with the island? Is that a fact or speculation? have we seen him before??? also, the guy that desmond was in the hatch with, have we seen him somewhere else? and am i the only one who immediatly of planet of the apes when you see the broken off foot statue?

I could have sworn that, awhile back, Charles Widmore appeared as a board member on hansofoundation.org. I was thinking about that when we first saw him in the car Wednesday night.

I thought Libby's hubby was named Dave? Unless his middle name is Charles or something?

In the podcasts, there was a reference to there being "two branches" of the Widmore family tree. One in the UK, and one in the US.

Perhaps Libby is associated with the American Widmores, or perhaps has no connection at all...

No, only American viewers can access the full episodes. Which I must add, makes no freaking sense at all.

what about itunes ?

In the podcasts, there was a reference to there being "two branches" of the Widmore family tree. One in the UK, and one in the US.

Perhaps Libby is associated with the American Widmores, or perhaps has no connection at all...


Ok cool...I didn't know that.

4*8*15*16*23*42=7418880 interestingly.

Good work!

...I think the Hatch door falling from the sky is meant to lead you astray. :D


The Lost writers would NEVER do that!!

When I saw the foot, I immediately thought of the Colossus of Rhodes, one of the lost Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Certainly no relation as that island is off of Greece. Just reminded me...

Time and space anomalies because of the island. Don't know how, but that's probably got something to do with it. (Atlantis?)


P.S. has anyone mentioned the fact that Michael has developed large lesions on his skin?

Well, I keep telling ya'll - he's sick (more evidence!) and his thinking process is all muddled up. There's no other reasonable explanation for his desperate, homicidal actions.

Two questions:

(1) What explosion or other event caused the "quarantine" hatch cover to be propelled way up into the sky with such imparted kinetic energy? It sure landed back on the beach with a very high speed, so something must have ejected it up with comparable energy.

EMF pulse, repelling it like a bullet?

Very likely. Magnetic "push".

(2) What is the seemingly infinite power source that runs all the equipment in the hatches and also requires no human maintenance or monitoring? Nuclear? Oil? Coal? Solar?

Did I miss something during the season which explained this?

Remember in the first season when Sayid finds a long cable leading out of the surf and running off into the woods? Could be that they're exploiting tidal energy for power. It's inexhaustible (as long as the moon stays put. :) )

Could be that they're exploiting tidal energy for power. It's inexhaustible (as long as the moon stays put. :) )
Or as anyone who has been drift diving off Cozumel knows, a nice 3-4 knot current could easily drive an underwater turbine.

Maybe the magnet knocks out all the communications and navigational equipment, so they start to descend for some reason (maybe the magnet is strong enough to "pull" them in). Regardless, my thought is that the plan didn't break apart at 30,000 feet, but much closer to the ground. Still pretty far fetched that people would survive.

Survive? Not far-fetched at all - it's a statistical fact that most plane crash fatalities happen as the result of post-crash fire, not impact. If there's no fire, then there would likely be survivors of almost any plane crash short of a straight dive at full power into the ground.

We saw the immediate aftermath of the crash in the pilot of season 1, and then later we saw the tail section aftermath. There was no fire at all in the tail section, and the front section only seemed to catch fire after the engines exploded (which happened after the survivors had gotten out).

Now, survival with no injuries is another story. Most people on this plane seem to have either died from impact or come out basically without a scratch - although it's possible there were other survivors that died in the post-explosion fire. Obviously this is a bit of dramatic license. The creators of the show have never made any bones about the fact that this is a TV show - watch the special features on the DVD and you'll see that they are very conscious of both the needs of a TV drama and also of the viewers' cognizance of those needs. They're not going for absolute realism; they're going for believable high drama. In real life, you'd see a whole lot more broken or severed limbs, internal injuries, etc. (Of course, as we've seen, this island has magical healing powers).

But I'm still thinking they crashed from 30,000 feet. People would have noticed if they were flying much lower; there would have been talk about it before this.

One thing I am slightly confused about after reading this thread:

Is it the concensus that Whitmore made Desmond race around the world? That is the take I am getting from some posts.

I thought he chose to race around the world because Whitmore sponsored the race and if Desmond won, Whitmore would have to deal with him publically. And of course his daughter would know who won the race daddy sponsored.

Makes me wonder if Libby (Elizabeth) was Whitmore's wife.


Desmond entered the race on his own, probably to Whitmore's chagrin. When he was knocked unconscious, Whitmore found him and took the opportunity to be rid of him for good. He sent Desmond to his buddy Hanso's island knowing that it would be highly unlikely that he return/escape.
Pen knows her dad is in bed with the Hanso folks and has come to suspect, through her own research, that her dad may have sent Desmond to a Hanso outpost.

Survive? Not far-fetched at all - it's a statistical fact that most plane crash fatalities happen as the result of post-crash fire, not impact.

That fact is skewed by the vast majority of accidents that occur on take-off and landings. Surviving a breakup in mid air is extremely far-fetched.

Another irrelevant statistic (IIRC) is that the survival rate of plane crashes is approximately 80%.

Desmond entered the race on his own, probably to Whitmore's chagrin. When he was knocked unconscious, Whitmore found him and took the opportunity to be rid of him for good. He sent Desmond to his buddy Hanso's island knowing that it would be highly unlikely that he return/escape.
Pen knows her dad is in bed with the Hanso folks and has come to suspect, through her own research, that her dad may have sent Desmond to a Hanso outpost.

I think Libby was a plant sent there specifically to offer Desmond that particular boat.

Wow..so the show's premise is that a dad doesn't want his daughter to be with someone, so he decides to send him packing to some goofy electromagnetic island?

If daddy has all these resources, he could've just paid someone off to whack desmond. It would've been a lot easier.

I found it, the one theory that truly ties everything together.

It's all happening in Tommy Westphall's mind (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kwgow/crossovers.html).

I know it is just a TV show, but I still have to struggle with the magnetic field theory where the plane is torn apart (when flying at 30000 feet or more) by the magnetic anomaly.

If I remember physics correctly, I thought that magnetic forces are inversely proportional to the SQUARE of the distance between the objects. So if the objects are nearly 6 miles apart, the intensity of the magnetic field would have to be ridiculously strong - especially if the force needs to be strong enough cause the plane to fall apart.

I can see the field affecting instruments on a plane, but not pulling the plane out of the sky, or breaking it up!

Josh, I feel that St. Elsewhere was perhaps the most brilliant series in the history of television, at least up until the premiere of LOST. Has it been released on DVD? I figure that if anyone would know, it would be you. :)

That fact is skewed by the vast majority of accidents that occur on take-off and landings. Surviving a breakup in mid air is extremely far-fetched.


It is not far-fetched, and in fact has occurred before.

For one thing, this was not a complete breakup. The tail section blew off. A lot of people believe that the way this crash was staged in the show was inspired by a real-life crash that happened in the 1960's after a bomb was detonated in the lavatory of a Continental DC-8. The tail section detached and the plane went down in almost the exact same manner that the Losties' plane supposedly went down - except that it actually landed upright and basically fully intact.

It took rescuers around 8 hours to reach the airplane, by which time everybody was dead (actually, there may have still been one or two survivors who died afterwards, I can't remember for sure). But the ME's determined that several people had survived the impact, and had died only because they had not received medical attention in time.

That was a crash onto hard, flat land. At speed, water is not much softer than land, but it does make a difference. There are so many variables involved that you can't say this or that would definitely happen in every situation, but there have been more than a few instances where airplanes have hit the water from cruising altitude and not completely broken apart. It really all depends on the plane's speed and angle of attack when it actually hits the water. But you wouldn't expect a plane that still had wings attached to be in a 90 degree perpendicular dive - it's still going to be generating lift, it just won't be controllable. (Airplanes that do enter dives usually do so because their control surfaces for whatever reason put them into that dive). The Continental DC-8 that crashed after losing its tail section fell like a leaf, oscillating back and forth, but it was upright all the way down.

There also was the famous case of the Russian stewardess who was caught in a tail section of another plane that broke off, then fell from 30,000 feet and walked away from the crash. Barely a scratch on her.

Anyway the question was whether surviving that crash is believable. The answer is yes it is. Maybe not entirely likely, but then a plane crashing in the first place because some guy didn't push a button on a deserted island somewhere is not entirely likely either and we're all perfectly ready to believe that, apparently.

A couple of things.....

1)Everyone is so hung up on people surviving this crash. Lets not forget that a paralyzed man got up and "Walked" away from the crash also. We have all accepted that the magnetism of this island has some "special" healing powers, is it so hard to believe that people who would have otherwise been critically injured were able to survive with a little help from the island?

2) All along I felt that Libby was associated with Dharma in some way. She is a psychologist after all. Her aiding Desmond by handing him a sail boat is just a bit too coincidental for me. She may not be an other, but she is Dharma allright (assuming that the others are seperate from Dharma).

3) I was a purgatory guy all along, and am now willing to leave that theory behind. I doubt we are looking at alternate dimensions or time travel or anything like that. This is more geared at corporate (or government) conspiracy/intrigue than anything else right now. Very wealthy people using other people to play their little games and further there own power.

no true tangible theories I want to put forth. Just enjoying the ride of what is (IMO) the best television show EVER.

Anyway the question was whether surviving that crash is believable. The answer is yes it is.

:D

Random thoughts that (I think) have not been addressed so far:

The long pier looks like the pier used in the 2nd run of “Fantasy Island.” The one with Malcolm Macdowell in the Ricardo Montalban role.

I like the idea of the plane breaking up as it entered a geodesic sphere.

Not sure about Walt projecting himself, but that’s an interesting theory. Would explain Henry’s “more than we bargained for” comment.

Who else rewound and rewatched the bird/eagle/pterodactyl saying Hurley’s name? I could definitely hear something that *sounded* like it might *possibly* be “hugo reyes.” But it could just as well have been “You go weee” or “hoo hoo eeee.” :)

The bird was also similar to the one seen in the final episode of Season 1 too. We didn’t get any commentary from him/her that time though.

The biggest what-the-HECK moment of the episode for me was the 4 toed statue foot. Colossus and LotR were the things that came to mind there for me.

Notice how the outpost guys were referring to the chess pieces as “rocks.” Reminiscent of the black and white rocks on the island.

Interesting that Libby may have been part of Dharma (I like the idea that she was Widmore’s wife and/or operative) and STILL got stuck on the island as part of the crash. She may have realized where (or “WHEN”) she was and decided to play along.

As far as these folks being able to survive a plane crash, read this story: http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200409/top_survival_stories_4.html
This is a true story and was made into a TV movie several years ago. The way the girl survived the crash is VERY similair to how Bernard survuved - in a seat row, still strapped in, in a tree.

Still a bit far-fetched that nearly (over) 50 people survive in a similair manner, but not impossible, most of them were strapped in.

Now, for those folks (like Jack) that were thrown from the plane, it seems a little more far-fetched.

You just made me think of something I haven't seen discussed here, and if it has, then I have missed it as I have read 90+% of the 17K posts.

The screen/monitor is an old 70's/80's era CRT. What happens to a CRT when you place a magenetic field near it? It can make it darn near unviewable. Ever place speakers near an old TV and watch the colors warp?

So why when Desmond was late getting back to push the button and the EMF wa already starting to strengthen, how was the monitor still able to clearly show "System Failure"?

Just wondering.
Granted, it would be difficult for the monitor to hold an image, so the show does take some creative license there. However, most of the effect of a magnet is to the color, not the image displayed. Since we're talking a monochrome monitor, that isn't an issue. There's no color to warp. The other thing is, we're talking a computer monitor, not a TV. Computer monitors (even older ones) have built in degausers in them that would minimize the effects of magnetism. Finally, we don't know what the Dharma folks may have done to the system. Based on the fact that they used film instead of video because of the magnet, it stands to reason they might have had some extra shielding built into the casings of the computer equipment. Don't get me wrong - it's a real stretch, but we can't take everything 100% literally here. It is TV.

The bigger question would be how do those big magnetic storage tapes on the mainframe system cope with the magnetism?

Obviously, we can't have everything be 100% accurate or the numbers would have to be entered via smoke signals or a pair of cans and some string (Hmmm, maybe the black smoke is the backup system....).

Perhaps a simpler resetable mechanical codeswitch, similar to those use in missle silos, would have been more appropriate here. However, then Locke wouldn't have been able to dump the monitor on the floor.....

I guess most of this is a moot point now, what with the hatch being blown to smithereens, and maybe I'm looking at this too much from a computer programmer point of view, but getting back to my thoughts on the code and the EMF, why require numbers at all? If you wanted to maintain some sort of human interaction to make sure it didn't go bad, fine. But why couldn't you program those numbers into the computer so you only had to press the execute button? Did we ever see anyone type in the incorrect numbers? Also, there's the fact that Michael was using it for something else and the world didn't end.I wonder what would have happened...

I still say the button-pushing, while necessary on some levels, was still an experiment in some way.
The numbers may be some sort of location ID as the number that came up on the ice station outpost monitor's screen was the numbers multiplied by themselves. In the grand scheme of the show, the individual numbers themselves are probably meaningless, they're just used to add mystery to the plot.

I'm curious how one stick of dynamite could cause such a large explosion, unless there was a high oxygen content in the hatch, but there's been no indication of anything other than normal air in the hatch. Maybe the explosion interacted with the high sulfur content mentioned back when Kate took her first shower.

I'm curious how one stick of dynamite could cause such a large explosion, unless there was a high oxygen content in the hatch, but there's been no indication of anything other than normal air in the hatch. Maybe the explosion interacted with the high sulfur content mentioned back when Kate took her first shower.Weren't there two sticks in the stash? Maybe Ecko used them both, but we only saw him wire the one up. It stands to reason that you would want two separate points of explosion in order to bust up the door.

On the other hand, maybe the explosion ruptured a gas line. Anyone know weather the stove is gas or electric?

I think Libby was a plant sent there specifically to offer Desmond that particular boat.
Perhaps what would normally be a fiberglass boat is one with a high iron content so that it was attracted to the island and then couldn't leave?

Wow..so the show's premise is that a dad doesn't want his daughter to be with someone, so he decides to send him packing to some goofy electromagnetic island?

If daddy has all these resources, he could've just paid someone off to whack desmond. It would've been a lot easier.

Maybe he has some morals. Out of his daughter's life is all he wanted. Plus, if it ever came out he had Desmond killed, Pen would most likely react badly. Not that she'd be all that thrilled that daddy sent him to a remote island, but at least the guy would be alive. Obviously, this is what she has discovered.

Oh great....

Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!

Throw in a few lines of “my son” or “my boy” and I think it’s a hit single.


Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Michael: MY SON!

Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Hurley: DUDE!
Desmond: BROTHAH!
Michael: MY BOY!

(repeat)

Also, I could swear that Desmond’s girl is a onetime Victoria Secret model. Couldn't find her on the web, but I definitely recognize her. (Maybe I shouldn't be admitting this fact)

Can we get another one of those old-style Thread analysis again? You know, the ones where we charted the amount of posts/hour and so forth? We gotta be at the peak over the past few days. :D

Interesting that Libby may have been part of Dharma
Maybe Libby wasn't at the facility to watch Hurley, but to monitor the original numbers guy. Many of the characters have had past casual interactions and this would be no different. Hurley just happened to use the numbers he heard on a lottery ticket.

One thing I am slightly confused about after reading this thread:

Is it the concensus that Whitmore made Desmond race around the world? That is the take I am getting from some posts.

I thought he chose to race around the world because Whitmore sponsored the race and if Desmond won, Whitmore would have to deal with him publically. And of course his daughter would know who won the race daddy sponsored.

Makes me wonder if Libby (Elizabeth) was Whitmore's wife.

I drew the same conclusion. I don't know where the idea of compulsory racing came from. Seems ridiculous.

Weren't there two sticks in the stash? Maybe Ecko used them both, but we only saw him wire the one up. It stands to reason that you would want two separate points of explosion in order to bust up the door.

On the other hand, maybe the explosion ruptured a gas line. Anyone know weather the stove is gas or electric?
I think the size of the explosion was basically to provide for exciting TV and is not really related to any other factors in the hatch, a big boom is more fun to watch than a little one... :p

Well, I keep telling ya'll - he's sick (more evidence!) and his thinking process is all muddled up. There's no other reasonable explanation for his desperate, homicidal actions.

His guilt and psychosomatic reactions, along with his deeply sincere apologies, betray the impact of sickness. Why would a sickness lead to homicide, but not a sociopathic lack of regret?

Perhaps what would normally be a fiberglass boat is one with a high iron content so that it was attracted to the island and then couldn't leave?

Check out the close up of the anchor of the "Elizabeth".

Now, survival with no injuries is another story. Most people on this plane seem to have either died from impact or come out basically without a scratch - although it's possible there were other survivors that died in the post-explosion fire. Obviously this is a bit of dramatic license. The creators of the show have never made any bones about the fact that this is a TV show - watch the special features on the DVD and you'll see that they are very conscious of both the needs of a TV drama and also of the viewers' cognizance of those needs. They're not going for absolute realism; they're going for believable high drama. In real life, you'd see a whole lot more broken or severed limbs, internal injuries, etc. (Of course, as we've seen, this island has magical healing powers).

Be careful, some readers here don't respond well to sensible logic. More likely, you'll be coolly dismissed. I think what you've said should be a basic tenet of viewing the show. But again, Lost is supposed to follow exclusive rules unlike those for most other shows.

We've known since early on that we just have to ignore the plausibility of surviving the crash.

When he was knocked unconscious, Whitmore found him and took the opportunity to be rid of him for good. He sent Desmond to his buddy Hanso's island...

Is this missing scene going to be in the DVD extras?

I think the size of the explosion was basically to provide for exciting TV and is not really related to any other factors in the hatch, a big boom is more fun to watch than a little one... :p
Well, there's also that.... ;)

At least we didn't have the name label off a sponsored product fly straight at the camera so we'd get a good look at it surrounded by the big boom. Alias, on the other hand (if the series continued), would blow up a car and the Ford SVT logo would thunk into a telephone pole perfectly in focus in front of the camera.

Also, I could swear that Desmond’s girl is a onetime Victoria Secret model. Couldn't find her on the web, but I definitely recognize her. (Maybe I shouldn't be admitting this fact)


Nevermind, this is who I was thinking of:

Frederique Van Der Wal

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0886479/

http://www.supermodels.nl/Tools/img.aspx?img=/ModelPics/frederiquevanderwal/34.jpg&w=300

I got a pretty good look at the Whirlpool Duets sailing through the bunker, although the logo wasn't featured. ;)

Maybe Libby wasn't at the facility to watch Hurley, but to monitor the original numbers guy. Many of the characters have had past casual interactions and this would be no different. Hurley just happened to use the numbers he heard on a lottery ticket.

Maybe Libby was at the facility because she was upset about her husband's death. THat's what I thought the moment she mentioned her husband had died.

I got a pretty good look at the Whirlpool Duets sailing through the bunker, although the logo wasn't featured. ;)
That reminds me. Didn't someone post a while back that those units are only a couple years old? Now, I can believe that resupply happened at some point before the Losties came into the picture, but they were there when Kelvin was still with Desmond. That was several years before the plane crash (Desmond was alone for quite a while afer Kelvin died). Perhaps Dharma got ahold of the concept models? Perhaps it would have been better to have seen a different set there during those flashback sequences (what better reason to replace them then having them damaged by the magnetic pulse).

Who else rewound and rewatched the bird/eagle/pterodactyl saying Hurley’s name? I could definitely hear something that *sounded* like it might *possibly* be “hugo reyes.” But it could just as well have been “You go weee” or “hoo hoo eeee.” :)


A colleague, for whatever reason, had close captioning on during that part. He said the screen showed "caw Hurley caw". Okay, I forget whether it was caw or squawk, but whatever, it was coupled with "Hurley!".

Maybe Libby was at the facility because she was upset about her husband's death. THat's what I thought the moment she mentioned her husband had died.
Perhaps she developed a love at first sight thing for Desmond (hence her willingness to give him the boat) and was devastated when he didn't return. Add that to the death of her husband, and it makes her unlucky in love....

I got a pretty good look at the Whirlpool Duets sailing through the bunker, although the logo wasn't featured. ;)

That scene made me burst out with laughter. I don't know, it just seemed like some cheesy scifi/horror movie where the appliances get possessed. It looked like the washer/dryer were purposely chasing him. :D

Granted, it would be difficult for the monitor to hold an image, so the show does take some creative license there. However, most of the effect of a magnet is to the color, not the image displayed. Since we're talking a monochrome monitor, that isn't an issue. There's no color to warp. The other thing is, we're talking a computer monitor, not a TV. Computer monitors (even older ones) have built in degausers in them that would minimize the effects of magnetism. Finally, we don't know what the Dharma folks may have done to the system. Based on the fact that they used film instead of video because of the magnet, it stands to reason they might have had some extra shielding built into the casings of the computer equipment. Don't get me wrong - it's a real stretch, but we can't take everything 100% literally here. It is TV.


Keep in mind, it doesn't matter whether the monitor would or would not have held the image, or whether or not Desmond could still have typed in the numbers. What matters is what Desmond perceived he could have done, how he reacted to Locke's action. We have no indication of his computer literacy at that time. He didn't try the keyboard, hence the logical conclusion that he didn't think he'd be able to or, panicky, it didn't occur to him.

That scene made me burst out with laughter. I don't know, it just seemed like some cheesy scifi/horror movie where the appliances get possessed. It looked like the washer/dryer were purposely chasing him. :DEither that, or they were channeling the washer from "Mr. Mom"....

First off - polar bears do not live in the Antarctic:
Where do polar bears live?
Polar bears range throughout the circumpolar north in areas where they can hunt seals at open leads. The five "polar bear nations" in which the bears are found include the U.S. (Alaska), Canada, Russia, Denmark (Greenland), and Norway. Polar bears do not live in the southern hemisphere.

Then I got curious about the earth's magnetic field and pole reversal. Found a couple of interesting websites:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/03dec_magneticcracks.htm

Keep in mind, it doesn't matter whether the monitor would or would not have held the image, or whether or not Desmond could still have typed in the numbers. What matters is what Desmond perceived he could have done, how he reacted to Locke's action. We have no indication of his computer literacy at that time. He didn't try the keyboard, hence the logical conclusion that he didn't think he'd be able to or, panicky, it didn't occur to him.

Valid point. Someone with little or no computer knowledge might not think about the fact that the computer will still operate without a monitor. Seeing Locke dump it on the floor might have all but indicated to Desmond the computer was destroyed. For instance, when I had a graphics card fail on me, I knew I could properly shut down in XP blind by hitting the Windows key, up arrow, enter, right arrow and enter. Most people would just shut the thing off with the switch.

I'm with those who think Libby is part of Dharma and she was in the hospital because of the numbers mumbling guy that Hurley knew. She's had interaction with 3 losties on the outside: Desmond (lostie by proxy), Eko (airport), and Hurley. And while other losties bumped into each other unknowingly prior to the crash, Libby seems much more involved.

And since we throw out all kinds of weird ideas, perhaps Hurley's friend Dave was a mental projection much like Walt in the jungle. And maybe Libby controls the projection.

That reminds me. Didn't someone post a while back that those units are only a couple years old ... (Desmond was alone for quite a while afer Kelvin died). Perhaps Dharma got ahold of the concept models? Perhaps it would have been better to have seen a different set there during those flashback sequences (what better reason to replace them then having them damaged by the magnetic pulse).
I agree with the question about the age of these units. If Desmond was on the island for 3 years prior to the crash that makes it 2001 when he showed up on the island. I don't know how long these elevated front loading units have been around, but I think it hasn't been that long. But that could just be an oversight. Desmond was only alone for a month or so (not sure if that's what you mean by "quite a while"). The crash happened the day Kelvin died.

2002 was the earliest. Through 2001 they were still under the Kenmore exclusive agreement.

I agree with the question about the age of these units. If Desmond was on the island for 3 years prior to the crash that makes it 2001 when he showed up on the island. I don't know how long these elevated front loading units have been around, but I think it hasn't been that long. But that could just be an oversight. Desmond was only alone for a month or so (not sure if that's what you mean by "quite a while"). The crash happened the day Kelvin died.
Whoops! Right you are. I was thinking of a post from a while back that mentioned that it was probable that Desmond had been alone for quite a while before the Losties found him. However, those particular models began being produced in 2003 or something according to someone here who owns a set. So, would be newer than Desmond's appearance there. Does anyone remember seeing them being there right when he first arrived?

Josh, I feel that St. Elsewhere was perhaps the most brilliant series in the history of television, at least up until the premiere of LOST. Has it been released on DVD? I figure that if anyone would know, it would be you. :)

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=5390

That was several years before the plane crash (Desmond was alone for quite a while afer Kelvin died).
Demond mention to Kelvin that he had not been outside for 2 years. I think it was later mentioned he had been alone for a year. So he was there for at least 3 years.

what physical principle do you know of that attracts aluminum? ...

Gravity. :D

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. ;)

A colleague, for whatever reason, had close captioning on during that part. He said the screen showed "caw Hurley caw". Okay, I forget whether it was caw or squawk, but whatever, it was coupled with "Hurley!".

Well, that's more definitive than what I heard at any rate.

One good thing if the Swan has been destroyed. Maybe it will put an end to the washer and dryer debate for good :). Don't you guys remember the line the writers put in from Libby to Hurley regarding the W&D, to the effect of "Hey, these look pretty new"? Seemed to be pretty pointed as a direct putdown of all the discussion regarding an inconsequential anomaly in production. Just like the EPT comment , "Wow, wonder who would be carrying one of these on a plane" from Kate to Sun was, after all the debate about that. Was ethan still breathing? I think I saw him move...


ron

To those who think that Libby was a plant sent to give Desmond the boat..... the way I interpreted that scene was that Desmond was broaching his idea to sail around the world to her for the first time, at least to her. Unless she (and her potential Dharma colleagues) were mind readers, there's no way they could have planned that move. Unless, of course, Desmond had revealed his plan to another Dharma operative sometime prior. Then it starts to get kinda' silly.

I like the idea of the plane breaking apart because it just got off course somehow and penetrated the "bubble" of electromagnetic energy that conceals the Island and makes it invisible to the outside world, somehow tearing it apart.

As to how the passengers survived, maybe it was clouds of "rescuing" nanobots that rendered the passengers unconscious (that's how none of them seem to have any recollection of the fall) and safely brought them to earth, depositing them on the beach and in the nearby jungle. Sounds wild, but if we're right about the smoke monster being nano-tech, then it's not that much more of a reach.

Of course, these possibilities don't address all the coincidences and crossed paths, but maybe they're all just that - coincidences (and what a cheat that would be!).

One good thing if the Swan has been destroyed. Maybe it will put an end to the washer and dryer debate for good :). But....I...just...can't...let...go... :D

However, it was mentioned above (after my last post) that Desmond was alone for a year. Unless I really missed something, he caused the plane to crash after returning from fighting with Kelvin. He could not have been alone for more than a month.

What would be cool is if all the connected people were brought together by one of the Losties because they knew they were heading to the DHARMA island - or intentionally going after DHARMA and they wanted these key people to fill certain roles in the plan. Have a season or two more with DHARMA the big mysterious overlord, then spring on us that DHARMA isn't really that mysterious, just some corporate entity screwing around with people. The real puppeteer is someone like Rousseau ochestrating the downfall of the entire DHARMA organization.

..... oh, and add some spaceships and aliens into the mix as well. ;)

The scene centering on the washer & dryer was *definitely* for the forum geeks that debated their existence for so long. Sort of a "bye bye" to that discussion.

Was kinda humorous the way they slid across the floor a la R2D2 though. :D

Either way, here's the post that gives the history of the age of the washer and dryer:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6232132

So, we're talking some time in 2002 at the earliest. What's the official current year on Lost? We know the crash happened prior to the Sox winning the series (the recent one, not the one before many of us were born... ;) ).

To those who think that Libby was a plant sent to give Desmond the boat..... the way I interpreted that scene was that Desmond was broaching his idea to sail around the world to her for the first time, at least to her. Unless she (and her potential Dharma colleagues) were mind readers, there's no way they could have planned that move. Unless, of course, Desmond had revealed his plan to another Dharma operative sometime prior. Then it starts to get kinda' silly.

Libby could have still been planted by DHARMA, she just thought quick on her feet and gave Desmond what he wanted. At that time she had no sailboat, but many dharma/windmore buck later she did. It's not like she whipped-out a sailboat on the spot!

As to how the passengers survived, maybe it was clouds of "rescuing" nanobots that rendered the passengers unconscious (that's how none of them seem to have any recollection of the fall) and safely brought them to earth, depositing them on the beach and in the nearby jungle. Sounds wild, but if we're right about the smoke monster being nano-tech, then it's not that much more of a reach...

That's a good point. Didn't someone post a pic of Jack waking on the beach that showed the reflection of a black cloud in his eyes - I think it was the opening scene of the first ep.

Libby could have still been planted by DHARMA, she just thought quick on her feet and gave Desmond what he wanted. At that time she had no sailboat, but many dharma/windmore buck later she did. It's not like she whipped-out a sailboat on the spot!



That's a good point. Didn't someone post a pic of Jack waking on the beach that showed the reflection of a black cloud in his eyes - I think it was the opening scene of the first ep.

Here are pics from that first episode. Don't see any indication of a black cloud.

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=3

But....I...just...can't...let...go... :D

However, it was mentioned above (after my last post) that Desmond was alone for a year. Unless I really missed something, he caused the plane to crash after returning from fighting with Kelvin. He could not have been alone for more than a month.


They blew the hatch on day 44.

The best look of last night's episode was when Sun was telling Sayid that she was going along with him and Jin. After she said that, Jin gives Sayid a look that needed no translation, it said, "She is a woman, and pregnant, there is no use in arguing with her."

Actually, I thought to myself after seeing Jin's physical expression, "That's a very American expression!", well at least for a native Korean of Jin's age. :p

Hong.

That scene made me burst out with laughter. I don't know, it just seemed like some cheesy scifi/horror movie where the appliances get possessed. It looked like the washer/dryer were purposely chasing him. :D
You're probably thinking of a Stephen King movie (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0091499/). If not, you should rent it. It's has plenty of funny moments, intentional and unintentional.

Perhaps what would normally be a fiberglass boat is one with a high iron content so that it was attracted to the island and then couldn't leave?
It is a sailboat, half of its weight is an iron keel.

As to the crash and survival.

I have no real explanation as to the survival of a crash, but I do have some insight into terminal velocity, which may help explain the feasibility of it.

From my high school days I remember the formula for reaching terminal velocity as being 32 feet per second, per second acceleration. What this says is that a falling object accelerates very rapidly in the beginning and then reaches its terminal velocity and then does not get any faster. The shape of the object, weight, drag etc. all factor in. (http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html)

That velocity would most likely be in the 180-200 mph range. So 30000 feet is irrelevant as to the speed of the impact. The fact is its still fast enough to kill you and lots of passengers did not survive the fall. Sky divers have survived chutes not opening and folks have walked away from plane crashes.

No fire is very significant and so is the skipping across the water slowing it down very fast.

Just my $5 ($.02 adjusted for inflation)

It is a sailboat, half of its weight is an iron keel.

Some sailboat keels are iron or steel (e.g. centerboards on smaller boats), but generally they use denser metals such as lead. This is to lower the center of gravity and provide more righting moment with less drag (volume below the waterline). A few very high end racing sailboats have used exotic ballast/keel material such as spent uranium, as it is even denser than lead...

I've seen a bunch of posts referring to Walt astrally or holographically projecting like it's a known fact. Is it? Did I miss that part?

If he showed up in the jungle or the boat or wherever unexpectedly why would you jump to the conclusion that he wasn't really there?

Not that there haven't been enough rebuttals already, but it's Alvar.

I'm going for the Bad Twin idea.

Or maybe a CIA guy operating in a war zone just didn't want to use a distinctive real first name like "Kelvin" so he used "Joe" as an alias?

Occam's razor and all...

Libby, Dave, Hurley, Desmond...

IIRC, Hurley said he got out of the hospital 3 years ago: 2001
Desmond was on the Island for 2 years (not being out for that long): 2002
Desmond met Libby before sailing off, so it should sometime between 2001 and 2002, I think.

So, by the time Libby met Desmond, Hurley must be out. So that means the meeting was after when we saw Libby in the hospital.

Dave...

1) Libby probably observed Hurley in the hospital and knew the name of Hurley's imaginary friend "Dave". What Libby meant by Dave being dead could mean that she considered Dave dead when Hurley decided to part with Dave at the hospital. (Well, this doesn't explain the wealth or the boat that well.)

or

2) Libby actually had a husband named Dave who died. That put her in the hospital. Hurley happened to mention the name "Dave", so she is interested in him.

or

3) (really wild) Hurley's real name is actually Dave (or at one time before his memory was implanted). He did not win the lottery, but was rich to begin with. Libby was his wife. Hurley goes into the hospital and claims that Dave is dead and becomes a different person. Libby considers Dave dead.

Oh, it's just my mind wandering...

Hong.

It is a sailboat, half of its weight is an iron keel.
I should have known that. :o

Correct.
Of course, my family had an IBM PC Jr which was a bargain in 1982 at just $2200 for all of about 128K of memory, but had a monitor that produced 3 colors, plus black and white while most others were monochrome.
Ahhhh, yes. The "chicklet" keyboard of he PC Jr. The Jr. made PC Mag's list of the top 25 worst tech products of all time: http://www.pcworld.com/resource/article/0,aid,125772,pg,1,RSS,RSS,00.asp

I went from an Apple II to an Atari 800XL, then on to the Atari ST. Those were some seriously cool computers.

If they had an ST down in the hatch, they could do a lot more than just enter some numbers ;)

From my high school days I remember the formula for reaching terminal velocity as being 32 feet per second, per second acceleration.......That velocity would most likely be in the 180-200 mph range.

The terminal velocity of a human falling is around 124 mph or 56m/s. Where it gets interesting is does the plane increase or decrease the terminal velocity. The terminal velocity is determined by the size of the object (drag) in relation to its density (weight).

So the big questions is does the plane weigh more per square foot of surface area than a human?

When Jack's group was captured, the voices in the jungle clearly said the name "Elizabeth", which was obviously the name of Desmond's boat that Sayid was using. Does this mean that the Others knew Sayid's plan?

Jack's group was a significant distance away from Sayid's signal fire. If the Others had been near enough the coast to see Sayid sailing in, I doubt they would have had enough time to make it back to Jack's location and taunt him with the name Elizabeth. I'm thinking they knew the plan in advance.

Henryn

....is not his real name. He took the name from the dead Balloon pilot

The terminal velocity of a human falling is around 124 mph or 56m/s. Where it gets interesting is does the plane increase or decrease the terminal velocity. The terminal velocity is determined by the size of the object (drag) in relation to its density (weight).

So the big questions is does the plane weigh more per square foot of surface area than a human?

Wouldn't the fact that the plane's wings were still intact when it was crashing affect the terminal velocity? The plane was certainly out of control, but it's not like it dropped from the sky like a rock. There'd be some drag or lift from the wings slowing it down.

Gravity. :D

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. ;)

Brilliant! :D

Is this missing scene going to be in the DVD extras?


Speculation.....(obviously)

..... oh, and add some spaceships and aliens into the mix as well. ;)

Thank you! Now I know that you know you're not insane.

Here are pics from that first episode. Don't see any indication of a black cloud.

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=3

Didn't the first ep begin with an ultra-closeup of Jack's eye, then pull back to what is the first pic in the link you sent? If so, then we'd need to see a pic of the closeup to be sure...

Some sailboat keels are iron or steel (e.g. centerboards on smaller boats), but generally they use denser metals such as lead. This is to lower the center of gravity and provide more righting moment with less drag (volume below the waterline). A few very high end racing sailboats have used exotic ballast/keel material such as spent uranium, as it is even denser than lead...
That was not an exotic racing sailboat, not quite sure of the maker but it looked like a 45' cruiser. Many cruising boats have a lead shoe at the bottom of an iron keel.