I'm up until 1am almost every night anyway, so it really doesn't impact me all that much.

you're in the central timezone anyway, so it doesn't affect you that much. 9 pm versus 8 pm isn't quite as bad as 9 pm versus 10 pm.

Looking forward to tonight. I still have the first episode of season 3 on the DVR, along with the last one. So in theory I could watch those 2, the recap hour, and the new episode. Nothing but LOST from 7:30PM-11PM(45min X 2), recap, new ep. But I watched the first ep a couple weeks ago, so I'll probably just start a bit after 8PM with the last ep they left with, then the recap on time delay for no commercials, then the new episode.

Can't wait to watch since I got 5.1 surround sound and a nice new receiver since it went on hiatus!

Wow, I'm surprised so many people go to bed so early around here. On the other hand, I guess that might explain why I'm tired all the time :p


ron

Married people go to bed "early". I usually go to bed at 12:00 am, but it's because I'm playing videogames, or watching a movie with my wife. So Wednesday will be Lost night, since I don't watch it live, I prefer to watch it in the DVR so I can FF the commercials.

Married people go to bed "early"

And parents with toddlers go to bed whenever they can. ;)

No one tells you about the period when they start getting nightmares, but they still aren't old enough to know the difference between dreams and reality. Going on 5 hours of "sleep" (if sleep is defined as getting kicked by an 18 month old for 5 hours while she moves around).

I love her to death though. :D

Looking forward to tonight!


tim

My 7th grade daughter started watching this season and now I'm torn about letting her stay up an hour later than usual. My wife says it's no big deal but I'm still undecided. 11 PM for a 12 y.o. just seems too late to me for a school night. She wakes up at 7:15.The ~12 yo make-up and hair [awakening] was the best thing (for both girls). After that, they could go to bed whenever they wanted, but they left for school at exactly the same time -- make-up & hair or not... Within about a week and a couple of [5-minute bed to bus prods], both were going to bed earlier and getting up earlier than me (to claim the bathroom). :) And with that responsibility on them, no worries (still - knock on wood) with the (now) on-her-own 19 yo being late for her job.

The TV shows lost out though, even LOST @ CST/CDT went away with the younger one, which I sort of missed watching with her.

v/r,
C-F

Ugh They're Even Spoiling It On The Radio!

When Will This Madness End?!??!?

Married people go to bed "early". I usually go to bed at 12:00 am, but it's because I'm playing videogames, or watching a movie with my wife. So Wednesday will be Lost night, since I don't watch it live, I prefer to watch it in the DVR so I can FF the commercials.

I'm up until 2 am every night. The problem is with multiple people in the home, you have to go by whoever goes to bed the earliest. (If it is a show the whole family watches together)

I used to be a night owl, up until after 12am every night...playing video and/or computer games and all that...but when I married my wife, her early-to-bed, eary-to-rise lifestyle rubbed off on me, and it's worked out for the best. I never realized how unhealthy/tired I was always feeling before.

Now, it's the rare weeknight that I'm up past 1015pm.

'Course, we do have a toddler around the house, so we never know when we'll have one of *those* nights ahead of us. Best to get the sleep when we can. :)

Wait until you've been married for 20 years. It is your wife's early-to-bed, early-to-rise schedule that will prompt you to adopt a late-to-bed, late-to-rise schedule. :D

I never realized how unhealthy/tired I was always feeling before.




You were just exhausted from arguing with your wife about going to bed and waking up. :)

I am going through that now with my fiance, and I can't see myself changing my routine until kids roll around, then I'll have little choice :-)

:)

At least the wife likes Lost...we do have that going for us.

My 7th grade daughter started watching this season and now I'm torn about letting her stay up an hour later than usual. My wife says it's no big deal but I'm still undecided. 11 PM for a 12 y.o. just seems too late to me for a school night. She wakes up at 7:15.
How about making next-night watching "special" by sharing some microwave popcorn? :p

lol Jin-Soo Kwon did a lost / local news promo here

Just a note for those with access to Canadian television programming:

It appears that CTV will air LOST at 8:00 PM tonight! The "survivor guide" is airing now.

Wow, I'm surprised so many people go to bed so early around here. On the other hand, I guess that might explain why I'm tired all the time

I don't usually, but this cold weather takes me out. Wish they had gone back to their original 8pm time slot instead of 10. Sounds like a lot of folks here might agree.

First Trixie and now Calamity Jane? Lost is really taking advantage of the Deadwood cancellation :)

Joannie Stubs, Trixie, and now Calamity Jane! I'm telling all you c*******ers now, Al Swearengen is going to be behind *all* of this.
:D

so now they expect us to read lips?

Excellent episode of Lost tonight.

Great, just great.

Now because LOST finishes at 11EST, I have to endure this crap:

10 seconds before the finish, they turned off the HD and went to SD, and further cut the screen to show the powerball drawing. :mad: WHY THE F DID THEY DO THAT! Not to mention, the episodes always seemed to run like 61, 62 minutes. Can't do that anymore b/c of news on the east coast.

Joannie Stubs, Trixie, and now Calamity Jane! I'm telling all you c*******ers now, Al Swearengen is going to be behind *all* of this.
:D

LOL THAT WAS HER! I looked on IMDB but she's not listed...I talked myself out of thinking that Lost is where all the cancelled Deadwood stars come to die :D

AMAZING episode...glad Lost is back, and its back big

Side Notes:

The pregnancy test that Juliette's sister took was a Widmore one
Hanso is shown in the Pyshcotherapy reprogramming video
-also shown are religious inferences


I love this show!

The King hath returned !! Great episode, as usual.

The music by Michael Giacchino is so organic to the show, and simply mesmerizing. How I wish they cut that boring recap before the show, and instead gave us a 2hr episode !!

at least we now know it's NOT purgatory

WHAT FILMS has the guy who played EDMOND been in???

Great episode. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the gang next week.

OK So more key things I missed and just read in the forums:

Ethan walks past Juliette in the hall of her apartment IN MIAMI (obviously there spying or other bad stuff)
-I completely forgot about it...they totally fooled me into believing they were on the island

One of the scenes in the pyscho-video was talking about JACOB and loving him
-There was talk of Jacob's list in past Seasons....hmmmmmm

This show is sick

Hit by a bus! Who didn't see that coming! :)

Also near the beginning of the ep at her sister's apt, I'm pretty sure I saw her sister had some kind of a dharma-esque logoed object next to her bed. I take this to mean perhaps her sister, Ethan, etc. are in cahoots? I'll have to go back and slow-mo to see it again.

Also of note, Alex's father is Ben.

Also, apparently someone already did the math and it seems that Juliette came to the island on 9/11/01....creepy

Hit by a bus! Who didn't see that coming! :)

Do you get the feeling that maybe Ethan was driving the bus?

Also, apparently someone already did the math and it seems that Juliette came to the island on 9/11/01....creepy

Oooh creepy... sneaky snobitches !! :D

Do you get the feeling that maybe Ethan was driving the bus?

Nah, that would be too much of a coincidence to have the ex just step onto the road, and have Ethan be driving the bus at what appeared to be over 40mph...

BTW, that scene with Juliette opening her sister's room's shades overlooking Miami downtown totally looked fake, like a wall poster kinda fake. Most deffo CG.

Seems like they've responded to some of our complaints, as in Kate is now badass Kate again.

Something I saw pointed out elsewhere that I will want cleared up is:

The plan to get Jack was already well underway quite a while before the purple sky incident that we now know is the reason they say they had to have Jack to do the operation instead of someone from outside the islands. And that timeline makes no sense.

People are saying that Ethan looked much older and fatter (which is true) in this episode than when he died ... something to chew on

People are saying that Ethan looked much older and fatter (which is true) in this episode than when he died ... something to chew on

Yeah, his eyes and cheeks were drooping like a pug. Obviously due to aging and time lapse between episodes.

Yeah, his eyes and cheeks were drooping like a pug. Obviously due to aging and time lapse between episodes.

he was supposedly YOUNGER at that time...since that was BEFORE he died on the isalnd...

People are saying that Ethan looked much older and fatter (which is true) in this episode than when he died ... something to chew on

Might have been done on purpose by the writers/makeup crew as Juliette also didn't look quite as good in the flashback as on the island. Perhaps they are using a half-baked dharma longevity drug that has the side effect of trashing the uterus, leading them to kidnap/engineer kids.

Hopefully this works, I've attached screenshots from S1 and tonights episode
quite a before and after.

It would be kind of interesting if the last season of the show deals solely with what happens after the characters get home (whoever they might be). Or is that too "The Nine"-ish?

he was supposedly YOUNGER at that time...since that was BEFORE he died on the isalnd...

Maybe he lost weight living on the island... losing weight can make you look younger.

i know they're not killers, but sawyer, kate and alex should've killed juliet ..after all the crap they had been through, she had it coming.

Seems like they've responded to some of our complaints, as in Kate is now badass Kate again.
And she's into Star Wars.

I really don't think anyone is getting off this island no matter what Ben says. He's like the king of broken promises. :rolleyes:

Lost was doing just fine against AI. Doing this just seems like they are throwing in the towel.

That was last season.

Lost took a wallop in the ratings in October and November - and that was without AI - ABC did not even want to risk it.

i know they're not killers, but sawyer, kate and alex should've killed juliet ..after all the crap they had been through, she had it coming.

Have Sawyer and Kate really been exposed to Juliet that much, if at all, to know? As shown by Ben's daughter, not everyone on the Island deserves to get killed for the actions of others.

So, we've had Rousseau, Locke, and now Edmund Burke! Turning into quite a philosopher's club.

It is good to see Kate has recovered from the whiney helpless captive to the "who's kidding" take charge one we've grown to love.

Was there a new episode of "Lost" on TV last night? I thought ABC was going to move "Lost" to 10 PM on Wednesdays but last night the network decided to show an hour of Commercials instead!

Oh wait, now I remember... last night I watched an unbelievable number of commercials with brief interruptions of "Lost." :D

Thank God our benevolent :rolleyes: Cable MSOs created the DVR... :p

I'm thinking this may be the season I don't watch the show live, let them pile up on the DVR, and watch it marathon style. Individual episodes just are not as satisfying as the whole story.

But, then again, that was my plan last season and I watched it every week...

I believe Ethan was probably driving the bus. If you watch in widescreen hd you can spot the bus SITTING down the street waiting til' her ex walks into the road. I just checked on the dvr and yes, I can see the bus down the street waiting at the bus stop. I wasn't surprised when he got hit last night as I spotted the bus out of the corner of my eye and thought "her wish is about to come true..."

Yeah, you know, its so common place to be standing in a busy road while holding conversations :rolleyes:

That particular Bus scene, and the one where Juliet just happens to go into her control room and spots the fugitives on Camera had me cringing.

What are the real odds you would spot fugitives on a rather Large Island right in front of your Cameras? Not very good at all ,I would imagine.

Think the Writers are losing their grip.

.....Also of note, Alex's father is Ben.I don't recall how old Alex was when kidnapped from Rousseau, if in fact she is Rousseau's Alex. She was either too young to now remember her parents or brainwashed into accepting that Ben is her father.

I thought this was a NO SPOILERS thread.

I don't recall how old Alex was when kidnapped from Rousseau, if in fact she is Rousseau's Alex. She was either too young to now remember her parents or brainwashed into accepting that Ben is her father.

Rousseau had been on the island for 16 years, that we know. We don't know a) how old Alex was when she, her mother, and their team became shipwrecked on the island, or b) how old she is now (but she doesn't look or act much more than 18 or so). It makes the most sense to assume she was "adopted" by Ben and brainwashed into thinking he's her father. She was so young when she was taken, she'd simply accept that as fact. Probably doesn't even remember Rousseau. Yet she seems to have a greater sense of independence than anyone else in that group. And Karl seems about her age. Where did he come from?

I thought this was a NO SPOILERS thread.

It is, but once the episode has aired, anything from that ep is fair game. If you haven't watched it yet, proceed with caution. ;)

BTW, loved last night's episode. :D


tim

I thought this was a NO SPOILERS thread.

What was a spoiler?

The King hath returned !! Great episode, as usual.




I wish they had left for the break with that episode instead of the last one. The 'cliffhanger' wasn't much of one, but the action, plot, and backstory really got revved up. Very enjoyable episode, lost track of time and found myself suprised when the ep was over.

Hit by a bus! Who didn't see that coming! :)

Yeah, totally predictable, but that's why I love about these Dharma bozos, they are sick!

(From Marc Berman’s Thursday, Feb. 8, 2007, Programming Insider column at Mediaweek.com )
Metered Market Ratings for Wednesday, February 7th
The Return of ABC’s Lost Disappoints

“… the news we are all waiting for is the return of ABC’s Lost in a new time period -- 10 p.m. Given the hype (and a clips show retrospective lead-in), the results are not overly positive. Lost returned with a 9.8 rating/15 share in the overnights, which ranked second in the 10 p.m. hour behind CBS’ CSI: NY (10.0/15). Although Lost should have no trouble winning the hour among adults 18-49 once the fast nationals are posted at PIfeedback.com, here are observations -- positive and negative -- to make note of:

1. Leading out of Dancing With the Stars, Lost averaged a heftier 11.5/17 in the overnights this fall in the Wednesday 9 p.m. hour..
2. Lost last night led out of a retrospective special, The Lost Survivor Guide, which scored a third-place 6.7/10 at 9 p.m. Next Wednesday, Lost airs out of the regularly scheduled, and barely seen, In Case of Emergency.
3. Lost increased from the debut of former regularly scheduled occupant The Nine (9.1/15 on Oct. 4, 2006) by only 8 percent in the overnights.
4. The year ago occupant, Invasion, rated considerably lower, however, at a 6.4/10 in the overnights (out of a 12.1/17 for Lost).

Although the cancellation bells will certainly not be ringing anytime soon, Lost is a classic example of a show mishandled by its network….”

• Source: Nielsen Media Research data

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp

For what it's worth, there was a very similar bus incident in J.J. Abrams' first series, Felicity.

My 7th grade daughter started watching this season and now I'm torn about letting her stay up an hour later than usual. My wife says it's no big deal but I'm still undecided. 11 PM for a 12 y.o. just seems too late to me for a school night. She wakes up at 7:15.

I'm really upset at ABC for pulling this stunt. Lost was doing just fine against AI. Doing this just seems like they are throwing in the towel.
ABC did the right thing. They knew way in advance that moving it is the best possible solution. The show would be a low rated 3rd for the night and not even make the top 20. ABC of all channels knows what a boost a showing after the super bowl can give a show, Remember "Grey's Anatomy" a fairly rated newcomer with a huge lead in audience. After post Super Bowl appearance it started to beat or come dam close to it's Lead-in from DH and now GA is giving respectability to ABC on a night they always quit on. Same thing will happen to Criminal Minds. GThat show was already moving up so the SB appearance will skyrocket their ratings. So ABC went head to head against one show istesad of 2, bad move for some(people with kids) great move for others(ABC and people who love AI), but the bottom line is that LOST will stay a top 20 show against CSI: NY while staying at 9pm would spell certain doom. They be lucky to make the top 40 at 9pm. Just look at the ratings for the recap next wk. That would be a good measuring stick to where a new episode would have been if it stayed at 9pm.

Go LOST, good episode last night, a little bit too predictable. I think on my last Post I predicted the alex then juilet rescue help but I didn't think Alex would have to stay.

Question: Alex is Ben's daughter? did I get that right? If yes. Is she still Roseull(F@#$ it, Frenchies) daughter? if Yes to all these questioins, How and what did I miss? Or is it still frenchies daughter but since they took her at such a young age the "others" made her believe he was the birthfather.

For what it's worth, there was a very similar bus incident in J.J. Abrams' first series, Felicity.

And exactly the same as when Rachel McAdams gets squashed by a bus at the end of Mean Girls.

Did anyone read the article on Entertainment Weekly (online) with 2 of the producers. They gave some stuff that is coming up which I will not go into. One thing they mentioned is that in last nights episode there would be an anagram that would explain a couple of things. The only new info provided was the name of the doctor interviewing Juliet and the name of the medical company that was a front for DARMA. Anyone good at anagrams?

Go LOST, good episode last night, a little bit too predictable. I think on my last Post I predicted the alex then juilet rescue help but I didn't think Alex would have to stay.

Question: Alex is Ben's daughter? did I get that right? If yes. Is she still Roseull(F@#$ it, Frenchies) daughter? if Yes to all these questioins, How and what did I miss? Or is it still frenchies daughter but since they took her at such a young age the "others" made her believe he was the birthfather.

I think the research project they hired Juliet for will shed some light on this. She thought it was the reproductive system of a 70-ish woman, but it was a 27 year old. Perhaps a reproductive disease? Let's hope it's not a rapid aging Star Trek disease...dammit Jim!

Question: Alex is Ben's daughter? did I get that right? If yes. Is she still Roseull(F@#$ it, Frenchies) daughter? if Yes to all these questioins, How and what did I miss? Or is it still frenchies daughter but since they took her at such a young age the "others" made her believe he was the birthfather.

We can't assume anything other than Ben raised Alex as his daughter. After all if she was kidnapped from her real mother as a baby, someone still has to raise her, and I doubt they'd tell her "BTW we stole you from your real mother, just so you know". So you're last sentence would be on the right track I think.

The anagram is the name of the fertility research center in Portland. Mittleos is lost time.

We can't assume anything other than Ben raised Alex as his daughter. After all if she was kidnapped from her real mother as a baby, someone still has to raise her, and I doubt they'd tell her "BTW we stole you from your real mother, just so you know". So you're last sentence would be on the right track I think.
Who are we to assume that Rousseau had a baby to begin with? She is Crazy, the others might have done multiple test on her after she killed off all her companions because of the sickness. Then they gave her false memories about a baby and made her believe somone took the baby to try to keep her in a depressed state and paranoid. Just another part of the Darhma project.
Remember what Ben said "WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS" He had a wife and she died giving birth. Which made him start looking for a fertility doctor because the woman of the island can never hold a child to full term with out complications. No badness involved, just looking for a way to pro-create.

It just seems a little weird that they would take a child from her and name it the same as the "mother"(Rousseau) thinks it is. Don't abductors change the childs name to make sure it doesn't remember it's past.

Just some random thoughts. It feels so good to be looking for 15 more episodes with no breaks.

who's to say that ben and the french chic didn't hook up and make alex?

why make it more complex then it needs to be?

"Lost" got 14.68 million viewers last night in Nielsen's fast national sample. That was 1.1 million behind "CSI: NY" but the good news for fans is that "Lost" handily won the 18-49 demo.

For more specifics and Marc Berman's analysis of what the "Lost" ratings means, go here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=440744&page=1&pp=60

who's to say that ben and the french chic didn't hook up and make alex?

why make it more complex then it needs to be?
Where have you been? We always want to make it more complicated. Nothing is black & white on this show. There is nothing but grey areas. But by what you are saying. Why would she willingly have relations with someone she didn't know 16 yr's ago? Her crew ended up stranded and they were able to send out the signal while her whole crew was getting sick. Was she able to kill them all before she "gave birth"? I guess we need to see a Rousseau flashback to clear it up. Because yesterday the writers are keeping up with LOST story telling, some new How's and when's come up after couple of them were answered.

That was last season.

Lost took a wallop in the ratings in October and November - and that was without AI - ABC did not even want to risk it.I don't believe this is correct. IIRC, LOST debuted this season pretty much where it left off last season. It was the middle of last season where the ratings dipped the most.

People keep saying that LOST would have been "crushed" if it had stayed at 9:00 but I don't see why that's necessarily so. Why would it have been any different than last season up against the very same shows? LOST has it's core audience that I don't think will change much unless the show really goes off track. If anything, from lots of posts here over the last couple days, it looks like many people that otherwise would have watched it live (and added to the ratings), will now be watching via DVR at a later time due to the time switch. And as much as I'm sure they'd like to see new people watching (as they made a pitch for at the beginning of the recap show), I just don't see much of that happening at this point either given the kind of show it is.

It was interesting that they took the time in the recap show to go into the numbers again. That leads me to believe that they don't intend to just sweep them under the carpet as some had speculated.

Personally, I thought the "bus scene" was great. Even warranted an instant replay :).


ron

Ok episode.

I wouldn't worry about Ben for long though. With all the improper OR technique, he should have a nice infection in his spine soon.

And really.....he just "woke up" from General Anesthesia in the middle of the procedure?......more than just a little far fetched.

The anagram is the name of the fertility research center in Portland. Mittleos is lost time.time lost ??? lost time???

What are the real odds you would spot fugitives on a rather Large Island right in front of your Cameras? Not very good at all ,I would imagine.
During the scene I had the same reaction. But they did say the smaller island is only the size of Alcatraz, which isn't all that big. It wouldn't take THAT many cameras to cover most of that small an island, would it?

Wiki says Alcatraz is 18 acres FWIW. That's 784 K ft^2 or something 885' x 885'.

If there are around 20 cameras (SWAG at # of monitors) that'd mean each camera had to cover a 198' x 198' space.

Perhaps a little of a reach, but not totally implausible...

I think there is something going on with time shifting, or at least experiments on lessening the effects of aging. In the recap episode they brought back Hurley's statement, "from what time" regarding the radio broadcast that he and Sayid heard. Last nights episode had the scene with the pictures of the womb that looked like an 80 year old woman, but was really only a lady in her twenties. Ben said he has been on the island his whole life, but has Dharma really been on the island for 50 some years. And, I thought Juliet and Ethan looked older in the flashbacks than they do in current time on the island. Maybe there is just some bad make-up or bad editing going on, but I think there is something to the time lost or lost time theory.

I wouldn't worry about Ben for long though. With all the improper OR technique, he should have a nice infection in his spine soon.
I liked how Jack and Tom and everyone were practically spitting into his open incision while yelling at each other. If Jack wanted to kill Ben and get away with it, an infection would be the best way.

FWIW-on the recap show, Michael and Walt were not even mentioned.

FWIW-on the recap show, Michael and Walt were not even mentioned.

thats because they are no longer on the cast

My favorite part of the entire episode was when Sawyer took Danny into the cage and rammed his head into the button three times:

"WARNING!" Whack!
"WARNING!" Whack!
"WARNING!" Whack! ZAP!

Worth tuning in just for that.

I was happy to see him get shot, but I wish we had learned more about him.

They never really explained why he was so pissed off all the time (he was that was even before Sun shot his woman) and why he hates the LOSTies.

The Others were employing a modified Ludovico technique on Karl... Jack's probably next.

I don't believe this is correct. IIRC, LOST debuted this season pretty much where it left off last season. It was the middle of last season where the ratings dipped the most.

People keep saying that LOST would have been "crushed" if it had stayed at 9:00 but I don't see why that's necessarily so. Why would it have been any different than last season up against the very same shows? LOST has it's core audience that I don't think will change much unless the show really goes off track. If anything, from lots of posts here over the last couple days, it looks like many people that otherwise would have watched it live (and added to the ratings), will now be watching via DVR at a later time due to the time switch. ron

You are right, the middle of Last season was it's problem area. They had American Idol in full swing and decide to show a new episode every 3rd week, at least that is the way it seemed with all the repeats at the wrong time. Momentum killers, that is what the repeats ended up being and Lost interest in show that keeps you hanging for weeks at time during a 35 wk season. ABC mishandled the rerun schedule last year, but when it counted in May the ratings were heading up and then it was over.
The problem isn't holding up against AI, Lost did it last year and still stayed in the top 10 barely, but this season you have AI and Criminal Minds which has taken some LOST viewers and has been on the rise. You don't take a gamble like that.

There has been concerns all over this year about LOST ratings, now ABC protects it's third highest rated scripted show and has it going against a show that has it's audience and isn't increasing weekly. A good thing for ans but there are still naysayers. This is a good challenge and it should keep this show a top 10 fixture.

I don't think we were supposed to think Juliet was older in the flashbacks, but that she was mousy and submissive. Somewhere along the line after she was recruited she started asserting herself and fashioning up. She still has power issues with Ben.

BTW, that scene with Juliette opening her sister's room's shades overlooking Miami downtown totally looked fake, like a wall poster kinda fake. Most deffo CG.
OMG! that does it for me. I can't believe they didn't fly a whole crew down to Miami to film that 3 second spot. What a bunch of cheap bastard$. That ruined the whole show for me.

You are right, the middle of Last season was it's problem area. They had American Idol in full swing and decide to show a new episode every 3rd week, at least that is the way it seemed with all the repeats at the wrong time. Momentum killers, that is what the repeats ended up being and Lost interest in show that keeps you hanging for weeks at time during a 35 wk season. ABC mishandled the rerun schedule last year, but when it counted in May the ratings were heading up and then it was over.



The real mistake was the entire Tailies storyline. They wound up doing almost nothing to move the story forward, and were all killed off/kidnapped but one (Bernard). A waste of time and storytelling mojo. We cared about the LOSTies and were invested in their stories, they were put on hold to give the Tailies screentime that wound up going nowhere. It made the series lose steam.

My favorite part of the entire episode was when Sawyer took Danny into the cage and rammed his head into the button three times:

"WARNING!" Whack!
"WARNING!" Whack!
"WARNING!" Whack! ZAP!

Worth tuning in just for that.

I was happy to see him get shot, but I wish we had learned more about him.

They never really explained why he was so pissed off all the time (he was that was even before Sun shot his woman) and why he hates the LOSTies.
Because Jacob was his brother, Ethan was his first cousin and the other ones killed by the tailies were related also. Might not be the true oder but I think it is safe to say there might be a family connection in some way.

OMG! that does it for me. I can't believe they didn't fly a whole crew down to Miami to film that 3 second spot. What a bunch of cheap bastard$. That ruined the whole show for me.
they are in Hawaii!!! would you want to leave? To florida, come on. One crew member brought a poster of florida from home and Abrams said good enough. We stay.

Because Jacob was his brother, Ethan was his first cousin and the other ones killed by the tailies were related also. Might not be the true oder but I think it is safe to say there might be a family connection in some way.

In other words we don't know :-)

The real mistake was the entire Tailies storyline. They wound up doing almost nothing to move the story forward, and were all killed off/kidnapped but one (Bernard). A waste of time and storytelling mojo. We cared about the LOSTies and were invested in their stories, they were put on hold to give the Tailies screentime that wound up going nowhere. It made the series lose steam.
You said it the best, sure we wanted to know and believe Rose was right that her hubby is still alive but it was a waste of a lot of episodes and never mind the fact that Rose/Bernard did get 2 episodes last year. Only for them to be a non-factor this year.
Like they say all shows learn from their mistakes. So the next x-flies/twinpeeks/Lost/heroes/24 serial comes along they will have to correct from the misteps these shows had.

In other words we don't know :-)
Stop with those small answers. Was my answer that transparent?

OMG! that does it for me. I can't believe they didn't fly a whole crew down to Miami to film that 3 second spot. What a bunch of cheap bastard$. That ruined the whole show for me.
So, the mountains in the background of the "bus" scene didn't clue you in that they didn't film in Miami? :rolleyes:

vegggas

They keep adding characters and doing more back stories on each of them, until I don't care whether I see the show or not. TOOOOOOO Many characters with toooooooo many backstories. They have completely left the original cast out of the show.

Predictable or not, when that bus flattened the doctor I literally dropped the remote and jumped out of my chair! Just totally caught my wife and I off guard. God I love this show!!!

I kind of jumped at the bus hit too. And again when Juliet double-tapped Danny, although you knew it was coming. Thought she was going to cap him back at the torture chamber building, but she couldn't do it in front of the Always Sunny in Philly guy.

First Trixie and now Calamity Jane? Lost is really taking advantage of the Deadwood cancellation :)

Err uhhm when did Deadwood get cancelled?

Last year if I remember correctly. They'll have two 2 hour specials to finish it off this year if I remember correctly...

Where have you been? We always want to make it more complicated. Nothing is black & white on this show. There is nothing but grey areas. But by what you are saying. Why would she willingly have relations with someone she didn't know 16 yr's ago? Her crew ended up stranded and they were able to send out the signal while her whole crew was getting sick. Was she able to kill them all before she "gave birth"? I guess we need to see a Rousseau flashback to clear it up. Because yesterday the writers are keeping up with LOST story telling, some new How's and when's come up after couple of them were answered.

made me laugh-

actually my complicated grey version in my head is that benry was married to Rousseau and she was part of the others who were all stranded together. Benry wanted a divorce so he made her insane (maybe with the nifty home theater they were using to screw with Carl) and planted her thoughts of the 'sickness" and put her on the other island.

see not so black and white. ;)

I think there is something going on with time shifting, or at least experiments on lessening the effects of aging. In the recap episode they brought back Hurley's statement, "from what time" regarding the radio broadcast that he and Sayid heard. Last nights episode had the scene with the pictures of the womb that looked like an 80 year old woman, but was really only a lady in her twenties. Ben said he has been on the island his whole life, but has Dharma really been on the island for 50 some years. And, I thought Juliet and Ethan looked older in the flashbacks than they do in current time on the island. Maybe there is just some bad make-up or bad editing going on, but I think there is something to the time lost or lost time theory.


not a bad theory there...

Predictable or not, when that bus flattened the doctor I literally dropped the remote and jumped out of my chair! Just totally caught my wife and I off guard. God I love this show!!!
It only surprised me because I thought the first sighting of the bus was a red herring. When I saw it at the beginning of the scene, I though, "that's cool they put that there, but they won't do it in that obvious of a way" - then bam! - he gets drilled by the thing going 40MPH past them. I didn't even really notice he had stepped off the curb.

I figured the scene would be more like this:

The guy would say something to hurt Juliet and walk away. Then along comes the bus rolling by and Juliet gets a look in her eye like, "I really DO wish one of those things would flatten him..."

Later, the guy gets hit by a taxi...

And she's into Star Wars.

I really don't think anyone is getting off this island no matter what Ben says. He's like the king of broken promises. :rolleyes:

Agreed. Remember he promised that Jack could leave if he operated. Plus, if he could have gotten anyone off of the island it would be himself, to have surgery at a real hospital.

Have we ever learned why John was in a wheelchair, or see that Rose was really diagnosed as terminal? Did the island really have a healing effect on them? If it did, maybe Ben should have just taken a vacation over there for a while.

And exactly the same as when Rachel McAdams gets squashed by a bus at the end of Mean Girls.The same movie sprang to my mind as well (whaat? I have a twelve year-old daughter...:p).

Have we ever learned why John was in a wheelchair, or see that Rose was really diagnosed as terminal?

Rose, Yes.

John, NO.

Last year if I remember correctly. They'll have two 2 hour specials to finish it off this year if I remember correctly...

not confirmed....yet

... :rolleyes:

...the one where Juliet just happens to go into her control room and spots the fugitives on Camera had me cringing.

What are the real odds you would spot fugitives on a rather Large Island right in front of your Cameras?...

I rolled MY eyes at that also. I mean, come on!

I rolled MY eyes at that also. I mean, come on!

I agree in general, but keep in mind sometimes the writers have to take shortcuts to avoid boring or uninteresting scenes. In reality she might have had to sit there for 10 minutes or longer waiting, changing camera views, waiting some more, until finally they ran in front of a camera. But do you want to see 10 minutes of that? I suppose they could have broken that up into two different moments to make it seem like that time was passing, so yes at least it could have been edited better. But, this along with the women shaving armpits, is something I don't need to see fully. Just accept that some things are condensed or glossed over, and that the idea in general of using the cameras to find them is reasonable.

They keep adding characters and doing more back stories on each of them...They have completely left the original cast out of the show.

That's the same feeling I've had for some time now. Some of the new characters are interesting; some definitely aren't (hope we don't have to tolerate any more "mannequin" actors like some they stuck in last season).

Guess there was only so far they could go with the originals. And apparently the original actors were exhausted after the first season anyway...

I don't believe this is correct. IIRC, LOST debuted this season pretty much where it left off last season. It was the middle of last season where the ratings dipped the most.

People keep saying that LOST would have been "crushed" if it had stayed at 9:00 but I don't see why that's necessarily so. Why would it have been any different than last season up against the very same shows? LOST has it's core audience that I don't think will change much unless the show really goes off track. If anything, from lots of posts here over the last couple days, it looks like many people that otherwise would have watched it live (and added to the ratings), will now be watching via DVR at a later time due to the time switch. And as much as I'm sure they'd like to see new people watching (as they made a pitch for at the beginning of the recap show), I just don't see much of that happening at this point either given the kind of show it is.

It was interesting that they took the time in the recap show to go into the numbers again. That leads me to believe that they don't intend to just sweep them under the carpet as some had speculated.

Personally, I thought the "bus scene" was great. Even warranted an instant replay :).


ron

Incorrect.

It won the time slot but was down significantly in viewers in the Fall compared to the previous season.

You are right, the middle of Last season was it's problem area.


Nope......you are both wrong.



(From Marc Berman’s Thursday, October 5, 2006, Programming Insider column at Mediaweek.com )

The good news for ABC was a midweek victory, with a first-place finish in the overnights (and most likely total viewers and adults 18-49 when the fast national results are released). But the third season-premiere of the still dominant Lost came down considerably from it’s year-ago opener. Lost averaged a first-place 12.3/18 in the overnights, which comparatively was down by 18 percent from its year two debut (Overnights: 15.0/21 on Sept. 21, 2005). Yes, folks, this could be concerning, particularly given that ABC is foolishly putting new Taye Diggs drama Day Break into the Lost time period for three months beginning in mid-November.

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp


Just because you want to believe it, doesn't make it true. Down 18% is a huge hit.

Again, this was without AI in the Fall - so ABC wanted to get it out of the way of the juggernaut.

And yes, Marc was prophetic in his last statement.

Predictable or not, when that bus flattened the doctor I literally dropped the remote and jumped out of my chair! Just totally caught my wife and I off guard. God I love this show!!!

then you haven't been watching much TV for the last 5 years. That is one of the most overused shots on television today and way past it's sell by date.

Go back to Final Destination and work your way forward, the scene has appeared almost as much as "the car crash seen through passenger side window" surprise.

The majority of this episode was predictable or overly coincidental. From bad guys who can shoot a radio out of your hand one second and then lose all marksmanship ability the next, to the camera locating scene, to Juliet's not so surprising shooting on the beach (saw the guy and knew he was dead in a second), to the fact that despite a long head start in the rain the bad guys can find the exact location of Kate and Sawyer and catch up to them ...

pretty lazy plotting all the way through but at least it got some of them out of the damn cages.

The real mistake was the entire Tailies storyline. They wound up doing almost nothing to move the story forward, and were all killed off/kidnapped but one (Bernard). A waste of time and storytelling mojo. We cared about the LOSTies and were invested in their stories, they were put on hold to give the Tailies screentime that wound up going nowhere. It made the series lose steam.

My view with the Tailies from the moment it was announced is that it was nothing more than an easy sweeps stunt. And based on what they did with the Tailies it looks like I was correct. They had little effect on the overall storyline (Shannon could have been killed by anyone) and all got killed off without major repercussions.

So a waste of time for the story yes, for the producers, network and ratings probably not.

"Lost" got 14.68 million viewers last night in Nielsen's fast national sample. That was 1.1 million behind "CSI: NY" but the good news for fans is that "Lost" handily won the 18-49 demo.What about the 50+ demographic, or don't we count? It’s too bad the advertisers wasted all those $ on the preponderance of commercial interruptions I endured while watching "Lost."

It only surprised me because I thought the first sighting of the bus was a red herring. When I saw it at the beginning of the scene, I though, "that's cool they put that there, but they won't do it in that obvious of a way" - then bam! - he gets drilled by the thing going 40MPH past them. I didn't even really notice he had stepped off the curb.

From where the bus was parked at the beginning of the scene to where it hit him, could not be more than 100 yards. That bus had to be turbocharged to get up to the speed it hit him at in that short distance. :rolleyes:

Finally watched last night's show and thought it was quite good. For some reason, I was expecting a real shocker (like Jack dying or something) but only got a few mild shockers instead. Still good.

On the cameras, my explanation is that there were motion detectors on the cameras and they only switched to Kate, Alex, and "the wookie" ( :) ) because it picked up their movement.

Having caught up on the thread, I'm loving all the speculation on "lost time," the aging of the characters, fertility issues, etc. Good stuff guys.

I am surprised no one has mentioned the fact that, in the recap show, the producers blatantly stated that the black mist is the "monster." And that, the island, by way of the "monster," made Jack/Kate/Eko see things that they thought were dead (i.e. Dad/Horse/Brother). That was a point of debate in this thread for a long time and it's now been answered. Kind of a big deal if you ask me.

Can't wait til next week.

My view with the Tailies from the moment it was announced is that it was nothing more than an easy sweeps stunt. And based on what they did with the Tailies it looks like I was correct. They had little effect on the overall storyline (Shannon could have been killed by anyone) and all got killed off without major repercussions.

So a waste of time for the story yes, for the producers, network and ratings probably not.

It was certainly more than a mere "sweeps stunt". There were other things afoot with the "tailies" storyline. One, we knew they were out there (because of the tail section of the plane dropping away in the pilot and Rose's comment about knowing Bernard to be alive). It reinforced that the Others were a malevolent force on the island, hostile to all "outsiders". There were several children kidnapped, and that shoe has yet to drop. I expect it to play a major story later on. And it introduced some interesting characters that played a major part in last season's storylines (even if they've all been killed or marginalized since). Eko, for example, would probably still be part of the cast had the actor who played him not wanted out of the show. Finally, the killing of AnaLucia and Libby was one of those jaw-dropping "I can't believe what I just saw!" moments that juice up the fans, so at least her death and departure from the show had some meaning besides "don't drink and drive in Hawaii". :)

Last night's episode was ok. I still enjoy watching LOST but this season just hasn't been "doing it" for me like the first two seasons.

larry

From where the bus was parked at the beginning of the scene to where it hit him, could not be more than 100 yards. That bus had to be turbocharged to get up to the speed it hit him at in that short distance. :rolleyes:
Hey, I've been on a turbocharged bus before - those things really pack a "press you into your seat" type of punch. They aren't Porche's, but they've got some juice.

But, yeah, the distance really doesn't square up. However, there's nothing saying that the bus that was parked and the one that ran him over had to be the same one. If it's a busy stop, there may be several routes that pass throught there - and not all of them have to necessarily stop there.

From where the bus was parked at the beginning of the scene to where it hit him, could not be more than 100 yards. That bus had to be turbocharged to get up to the speed it hit him at in that short distance. :rolleyes:

Wow... why all the hatred?

Not sure if this has been mentioned (kind of hard to find out with 20,000+ posts) :)

http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/

Go to projects:

Username: jburke
Password: rachel

Also, check out the bios and other interesting stuff on that site.

Wow... why all the hatred?


Not hatred, but this show has always attracted the highest scrutiny of every detail.

I knew he was going to get hit by a bus when she said it the first time, Dharma is mean like that :-) So as soon as I saw the bus enter the frame (while they were talking) I knew that the moment was coming. It doesn't really matter how much ground the bus had to cover. It was kept in the background so that people who were only focused on the characters and their conversation would be surprised when it ran him down. It worked on my fiance, she freaked out :-)

I knew he was going to get hit by a bus when she said it the first time, Dharma is mean like that :-)


So, would that be Dharma Karma?

Last night's episode was ok. I still enjoy watching LOST but this season just hasn't been "doing it" for me like the first two seasons.

larry

Couldn't have said it better myself, Larry. Just take a look at the posts from Season 1 and 2 compared to season 3. Either their were MUCH more viewers reading into every little detail, and that has dwindled, or there is just not as much to dive into this season to have great intellectual discussions. I say it's the latter.

Frankly, I think they have laid so many questions on the table, it's hard for me to move forward with yet MORE involved stories as I forget some of the other stuff. Let's see....Walt is no longer on the show, but what was up with everything that happened to him (the deaths, the bears, etc.). What ever happened to Desmond's ex girlfriend on the ship?

Anyone think they are trying to groom Jack to take Juliette's place as the Doctor on the Island? He's been held captive for a while, but at least it's been indoors outside the elements while Kate and Sawyer spent their days and nights in a cage outside. It's like they want to keep him healthy and somewhat sane.

Anyone think they are trying to groom Jack to take Juliette's place as the Doctor on the Island? He's been held captive for a while, but at least it's been indoors outside the elements while Kate and Sawyer spent their days and nights in a cage outside. It's like they want to keep him healthy and somewhat sane.


Previews show him in a cage next week. Hated the break between fall and spring, but i'm loving that all new eps are coming every week. ABC just needs to bite the bullet and let this show play out like 24. I know they like to balance fall and spring, but it's a 6 week difference (albeit during fall sweeps).

Previews show him in a cage next week. Hated the break between fall and spring, but i'm loving that all new eps are coming every week. ABC just needs to bite the bullet and let this show play out like 24. I know they like to balance fall and spring, but it's a 6 week difference (albeit during fall sweeps).


Well, there goes that idea LOL

I think Jack could very well be Juliette's replacement. But, she has to actually go home before they take him out of that cage.

I think Jack could very well be Juliette's replacement. But, she has to actually go home before they take him out of that cage.

Knowing LOST she will die before she gets off the island....

Knowing LOST she will die before she gets off the island....

True.

Go home or die, Jack is definitely the "resident" doctor on Alcatraz island...

So, would that be Dharma Karma?

Dharma? Thought the recruiters were from an outfit called Mittelos Bioscience or some such. Now, it could be a front for Dharma (maybe Ethan was traded to Mittelos for a future draft choice and an undisclosed amount of cash), but it might just be another organization like the Hanso Foundation or Dharma, or..... whatever. With this show, you can never be sure (because they never tell you. :p ). We're still not sure how Dharma ties in with Hanso....

Nope......you are both wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa
(From Marc Berman’s Thursday, October 5, 2006, Programming Insider column at Mediaweek.com )

The good news for ABC was a midweek victory, with a first-place finish in the overnights (and most likely total viewers and adults 18-49 when the fast national results are released). But the third season-premiere of the still dominant Lost came down considerably from it’s year-ago opener. Lost averaged a first-place 12.3/18 in the overnights, which comparatively was down by 18 percent from its year two debut (Overnights: 15.0/21 on Sept. 21, 2005). Yes, folks, this could be concerning, particularly given that ABC is foolishly putting new Taye Diggs drama Day Break into the Lost time period for three months beginning in mid-November.

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newslet...sider/index.jsp


Just because you want to believe it, doesn't make it true. Down 18% is a huge hit.

Again, this was without AI in the Fall - so ABC wanted to get it out of the way of the juggernaut.You seem to be misinterpreting a couple things. The biggest drop in the ratings came during the middle of last season against AI. If you look at the items I highlighted in the Berman piece you quoted, you will see that he's making comparisons between season openers, which says nothing about when the drop actually occured. If you look at the month to month ratings, you will find that the drop basically leveled off before the end of last season, and this season picked up pretty much at that same pace it ended with.

Just because you want to believe there was a big drop this fall, doesn't make it so :D.


ron

And based on what they did with the Tailies it looks like I was correct. They had little effect on the overall storyline (Shannon could have been killed by anyone) and all got killed off without major repercussions.


Wait a sec? All the tailies are dead? Since when did Bernard die?

Predictable or not, when that bus flattened the doctor I literally dropped the remote and jumped out of my chair! Just totally caught my wife and I off guard. God I love this show!!!
I knew it was coming the minute she mentioned it.

...With this show, you can never be sure (because they never tell you...

As much as we hate to admit it, that's what keeps us watching.

Anyone else get EXTREMELY frustrated when Sawyer, Kate, and Alex find that Carl guy being brainwashed in a scene that looked like it was 50% A Clockwork Orange, 50% The Prisoner (Patrick McGoohan's fabulous underrated Sci-fi show from the '60)??

As soon I saw that I was like, "Oh no!!! More questions!!!!!!!!"

Not sure if this has been mentioned (kind of hard to find out with 20,000+ posts) :)

http://www.mittelosbioscience.org/

Go to projects:

Username: jburke
Password: rachel

Also, check out the bios and other interesting stuff on that site.

That was debunked over on the fuselage forum. Not an official site.

You seem to be misinterpreting a couple things. The biggest drop in the ratings came during the middle of last season against AI.


I am misinterpreting things? lol

Thank you for doing a 180 and proving my point and ABC's point of why they wanted to get this out of the way of AI


If you look at the items I highlighted in the Berman piece you quoted, you will see that he's making comparisons between season openers, which says nothing about when the drop actually occured. If you look at the month to month ratings, you will find that the drop basically leveled off before the end of last season, and this season picked up pretty much at that same pace it ended with.



Hyped season openers always show a boost. They either hold, build or drop off - you have differences in HUT levels in different parts of the year and different competition. Thus year to year comparisons are critical.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make Ron drink.

If you read nutty's comment, he says this year Lost held its ratings this Fall. As noted in the link, it didn't.

It doesn't matter what happened last Spring as AI was in play. That is the whole point of moving it to 10pm. In fact, that only furthers my point of the move to get it out of the way of AI.

It lost 18% in the Fall when Fox had horrible ratings with the Baseball Playoffs.

One could theorize it would have lost over 30% if AI was airing.

So again, that's why they got it out of the way at 10pm and whatever you want to believe, it all points to ABC HAD to get it out of the way of AI.

If it's not an official site it's pretty damn good. Can anyone come up with an anagram for Casimir. It's Mentioned on the 3rd island. Also, there is a quarry on the 2nd island?

"I Racism"

or Casimir Island could be "Criminal is Sad"

This digg post links to a youtube audio file where someone reversed and manipulated the audio in the brainwashing room video so you can clearly hear some woman saying "Only fools are enslaved by time and space":

http://digg.com/television/LOST_Extremely_creepy_reverse_speech_found_in_Brainwashing_V ideo

This digg post links to a youtube audio file where someone reversed and manipulated the audio in the brainwashing room video so you can clearly hear some woman saying "Only fools are enslaved by time and space":

http://digg.com/television/LOST_Extremely_creepy_reverse_speech_found_in_Brainwashing_V ideo

Extremely creepy indeed! Loved it!

I am misinterpreting things? lol

Thank you for doing a 180 and proving my point and ABC's point of why they wanted to get this out of the way of AI



Hyped season openers always show a boost. They either hold, build or drop off - you have differences in HUT levels in different parts of the year and different competition. Thus year to year comparisons are critical.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make Ron drink.

If you read nutty's comment, he says this year Lost held its ratings this Fall. As noted in the link, it didn't.

It doesn't matter what happened last Spring as AI was in play. That is the whole point of moving it to 10pm. In fact, that only furthers my point of the move to get it out of the way of AI.

It lost 18% in the Fall when Fox had horrible ratings with the Baseball Playoffs.

One could theorize it would have lost over 30% if AI was airing.

So again, that's why they got it out of the way at 10pm and whatever you want to believe, it all points to ABC HAD to get it out of the way of AI.Nobody is doing any 180's here. Neither I nor Nutty ever said that AI was not a problem. What we DID say was that the big drop off in the LOST ratings happened in the middle of last season while AI was airing, NOT this fall as you keep arguing. Just to lay it all out for you...

You started out by posting a very specific statement regarding the LOST ratings this fall:Lost took a wallop in the ratings in October and November - and that was without AI - ABC did not even want to risk it.
I responded by saying: I don't believe this is correct. IIRC, LOST debuted this season pretty much where it left off last season. It was the middle of last season where the ratings dipped the most.
Nutty followed by saying:You are right, the middle of Last season was it's problem area. They had American Idol in full swing and decide to show a new episode every 3rd week, at least that is the way it seemed with all the repeats at the wrong time. Momentum killers, that is what the repeats ended up being and Lost interest in show that keeps you hanging for weeks at time during a 35 wk season. ABC mishandled the rerun schedule last year, but when it counted in May the ratings were heading up and then it was over.
You responded to my post by saying I was wrong, and them made a statement containing an irrelevant statistic that did absolutely nothing to back it up:Incorrect.

It won the time slot but was down significantly in viewers in the Fall compared to the previous season.
You responded to Nutty by quoting a specific line from his post and again saying we were both wrong:Quote:Originally Posted by nuttyinnyc
"You are right, the middle of Last season was it's problem area."

Nope......you are both wrong.
Then you quoted the Berman piece and made another very specific statement regarding the LOST ratings this fall:Just because you want to believe it, doesn't make it true. Down 18% is a huge hit.
Again, this was without AI in the Fall - so ABC wanted to get it out of the way of the juggernaut.
I then pointed out to you that the Berman piece you quoted did nothing to back up your statements that LOST had further dropped off this fall:You seem to be misinterpreting a couple things. The biggest drop in the ratings came during the middle of last season against AI. If you look at the items I highlighted in the Berman piece you quoted, you will see that he's making comparisons between season openers, which says nothing about when the drop actually occured. If you look at the month to month ratings, you will find that the drop basically leveled off before the end of last season, and this season picked up pretty much at that same pace it ended with.
You then responded by quoting a specific statement I made and somehow accused me of making a 180 (talk about LOL :D):Quote:Originally Posted by R11
"You seem to be misinterpreting a couple things. The biggest drop in the ratings came during the middle of last season against AI."

I am misinterpreting things? lol

Thank you for doing a 180 and proving my point and ABC's point of why they wanted to get this out of the way of AI
Then you made a bunch of comments, most of which were also wrong or irrelevant (my responses inserted):Hyped season openers always show a boost. They either hold, build or drop off - you have differences in HUT levels in different parts of the year and different competition. Thus year to year comparisons are critical.

While quite interesting, but somewhat obvious, this says nothing to refute our contention that the LOST ratings took the big hit in the middle of last season

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make Ron drink.

You know, you really might want to think about this one yourself

If you read nutty's comment, he says this year Lost held its ratings this Fall. As noted in the link, it didn't.

Once again (and again, and again) , the LOST ratings this fall were steady, it was the middle of last season where they dropped off

It doesn't matter what happened last Spring as AI was in play. That is the whole point of moving it to 10pm. In fact, that only furthers my point of the move to get it out of the way of AI.

Well, it matters everything what happened last spring when AI was on, THAT WAS OUR WHOLE POINT ;)

It lost 18% in the Fall when Fox had horrible ratings with the Baseball Playoffs.

Repeat after me, the LOST ratings held steady this fall from where they were at the end of last season....

One could theorize it would have lost over 30% if AI was airing.

Again, you are taking a decline from the middle of last season and attributing it to the early part of this season.

So again, that's why they got it out of the way at 10pm and whatever you want to believe, it all points to ABC HAD to get it out of the way of AI.

Neither of us disputed that AI was the reason ABC moved LOST to the 10:00 time slot.


Although this has been fun, (and burned up some spare time on a rainy Saturday afternoon), I'm sure we're long past boring the heck out of everybody else on the thread... If you feel the need to continue I will sit here and chuckle without further response :)




ron

Extremely creepy indeed! Loved it!


Cool, I was hoping someone would post this!

This digg post links to a youtube audio file where someone reversed and manipulated the audio in the brainwashing room video so you can clearly hear some woman saying "Only fools are enslaved by time and space":

http://digg.com/television/LOST_Extremely_creepy_reverse_speech_found_in_Brainwashing_V ideo

that is ridiculous....seriously wow

There is a long series of messages going back years now at The Fuselage where some people believe the Lost folks have been inserting secret audio "whispers" into the surround sound and other hard-to-hear spots in the audio. The few times I've tried to listen to it it seems to me that they are just hearing what they want to hear from badly distorted audio tweaking, but in this particular case it does seem the Lost guys inserted this on purpose.

Wait a sec? All the tailies are dead? Since when did Bernard die?

given that Bernard is about as important to the writers as the background trees seem to be, he might as well be dead.

Or he might have been killed off and they haven't bothered to tell us yet. Perhaps they were too busy introducing two new cardboard cutouts that nobody cares about to mention it.

It was certainly more than a mere "sweeps stunt". There were other things afoot with the "tailies" storyline. One, we knew they were out there (because of the tail section of the plane dropping away in the pilot and Rose's comment about knowing Bernard to be alive). It reinforced that the Others were a malevolent force on the island, hostile to all "outsiders". There were several children kidnapped, and that shoe has yet to drop. I expect it to play a major story later on. And it introduced some interesting characters that played a major part in last season's storylines (even if they've all been killed or marginalized since). Eko, for example, would probably still be part of the cast had the actor who played him not wanted out of the show. Finally, the killing of AnaLucia and Libby was one of those jaw-dropping "I can't believe what I just saw!" moments that juice up the fans, so at least her death and departure from the show had some meaning besides "don't drink and drive in Hawaii". :)

The Tailies story added nothing we didn't already know. Even the "special" was basically retreading ground already established. We already knew The Others kidnapped kids, Rousseau related that tale, we already knew they infilitrated the groups because Ethan already did that, we already knew they tried to take you in the night, because they attempted that with the Losties and we already knew they were vicious after Charlie was left dangling by his neck ...

So Michael killed Ana and Libby? It didn't matter to the story and I didn't care about them anyway. Michael could have shot Shannon at the end instead of Ana and it would have accomplished the same storyline and people would have actually cared about the demise of the character. I thought the progression of Michaels's story to conclusion was stupidly written, as did many other people. It might have "juiced up" some of the fan base but it was just further proof of the continuously weak writing on an already strained season to some. From caring dad to murderer in the blink of an eye. If only he had a job that relied on his ability to analyze weaknesses and engineer solutions ... he might have been able to come up with a better plan to get his kid back.

Ana and Libby had no integral part to the story and Libby was barely a character as it was. Even with the red herring flashback. You can tell, because nobody mourns for them and the story is moving along as if nothing had happened. Are there any burning questions about Ana? No. Michael and Walt on the other hand have so many loose plot threads dangling you could weave a raft from them.

As I've said on many occasions the fact that the Tailies all spoke in hushed tones and with faces of horror when they mentioned what they had gone through was just ridiculous. All that basically happened was that The Others kidnapped a few of them and Ana had a fight. They even found a secure shelter!

Compare that to the Losties ... who got attacked by Others as well, strung up from a tree, kidnapped and drugged, attacked by a polar bear, a huge black monster, wild boars, blown up by dynamite, tortured, shot, sucked into a jet engine, no shelter, cave-ins, haunted by ghostly visions ... the Tailies had it easy and their story was weak and hollow by comparison.

Only two good things came form the Tailies storyline. Eko and Bernard. Characters that are now dead or buried in background cast of extras. Eko might be missed by Charlie and Locke but we see so little of them it's hard to actually tell. End result, Eko and Bernard's effect on the show is negligible.

last episode had a very nice bitrate, was it just my local abc station, or they actually highered the bitrate for HD shows?

Your specific station might be doing something called "statistical multiplexing", where the main channel's bitrate is lowered during SD programming, or HD low-motion programming, to allow better subchannel picture quality.

last episode had a very nice bitrate...

How do you tell?

No one has mentioned this yet. I like to check my season passes on my HD Tivo guide for the upcoming program descriptions. I looked yesterday and apparently ABC has decided to air Lost twice every Wed. Last weeks episode is on at 9:00 and the new one is on at 10:00 for the next 2 weeks.

How do you tell?While I certainly don't know how yfedorovsky is doing it, TSreader is probably the most common tool for the job.

While I certainly don't know how yfedorovsky is doing it, TSreader is probably the most common tool for the job.

So my next question would be, what is TSreader???

So my next question would be, what is TSreader???
The answer to everything these days is a Google search.

TSReader is a transport stream analyzer, decoder, recorder and stream ...

The answer to everything these days is a Google search.

Yeah, did that after I asked. STILL don't know what the heck it is though.

Sure, Google is easy - but asking here and having someone else Google, filter through the results, and post a succinct answer is even easier. ;)

Sure, Google is easy - but asking here and having someone else Google, filter through the results, and post a succinct answer is even easier. ;)

Panther, you bein' a wise a**? Go watch the Grammys will ya?

I thought this episode was suppose to answer a lot of questions about the others. I didn't see anything revealed. What was revealed that I missed? I don't get it, I didn't see anything in here that helped solve unanswered questions.

Dominic Monaghan today on Ellen - sorry for late notice!

LOST didn't make the top ten last week...darn that AI juggernaut!

given that Bernard is about as important to the writers as the background trees seem to be, he might as well be dead.

Or he might have been killed off and they haven't bothered to tell us yet. Perhaps they were too busy introducing two new cardboard cutouts that nobody cares about to mention it.
Isn't Bernard married to Rose, and isn't Marriage related to death. So you do the math Bearnard is dead. For you married people that made it work, forgive me, congrats to you guys. But come on the track record is there. LOL

OT alert:
BSG fans you will be happy to know thatSciFi renewedit for a fourth season, which is tentatively set to premiere in January 2008. I know there is a lot of you guys here.

LOST didn't make the top ten last week...darn that AI juggernaut!
no worries, it is impressive this time of year to make the top 10. 2 spots to AI, CSI and grey take the next 2 plus the House lead in pleasure spot Tues at 9pm. That leaves you the rest of TV fighting for 5 spots. But you have to give Heroes credit for holding it's own against 24. But if you go from 6-10 it is probably split by no more then 2 mill and the next ten by another 2 mil viewers.

isn't Marriage related to death.
One of my favorite exchanges on Married With Children:

Peg: "I rented a movie for us to watch: Four Weddings and a Funeral."

Al: "Who'd want to watch five of the same thing?"

~Dan

LOST didn't make the top ten last week...darn that AI juggernaut!When was the last time LOST made the top ten? :) I know you're being tongue in cheek Iteki, but you didn't really expect a jump in the ratings did you? With a highly serialized show like LOST I'd think it's pretty hard to get viewers back once they've left. At least not in big numbers. I think the move out of the AI zone was probably more about keeping the ratings from going down than anything else.

Back to the beach this week!



ron

When was the last time LOST made the top ten? :) I know you're being tongue in cheek Iteki, but you didn't really expect a jump in the ratings did you? With a highly serialized show like LOST I'd think it's pretty hard to get viewers back once they've left. At least not in big numbers. I think the move out of the AI zone was probably more about keeping the ratings from going down than anything else.

Back to the beach this week!

ron


Through Season 2 it was a consistently Top Ten show, I would need fredfa to back me up on the numbers. I think even through the fall that was the case, as it didn't have to compete with AI.

LOST didn't make the top ten last week...darn that AI juggernaut!

Did not make the Top 20 either.

Even Criminal Minds and CSI:NY barely missed the Top 10 compared to Lost.

"Idol" crushes the competition

"American Idol" contestants may dream of winning a Grammy, but the Grammy Awards show on CBS was only the #6 show in the weekly Nielsen ratings last week, while two nights of "Idol" on Fox claimed the #1 and #2 spots. "House" was #4, giving Fox three of the top four shows. Fox handily won the big money 18-49 demo, followed by CBS, ABC, NBC, Univision, CW, Telemundo, TeleFutura and a tie of Ion and Azteca America. CBS still managed to win in Households with a rating of 8.8 and a 14 share. Fox was next at 7.0/11, followed by ABC 6.4/10, NBC 5.7/9, CW and Univision tied at 2.2/3, Telemundo and Ion tied at 0.5/1, TeleFutura 0.4/1 and Azteca America 0.2/0.

Here are the top 20 shows for the week.

Nielsen Television Index Ranking Report

Network primetime (Live + SD) week of 02/05/07 - 02/11/07


Here are the top 20 shows for the week.


Rank Program Network Rating Share Audience(000)

1 AMERICAN IDOL-TUESDAY FOX 18.4 27 33356
2 AMERICAN IDOL-WEDNESDAY FOX 15.9 23 27909
3 GREY'S ANATOMY-THU 9PM ABC 15.2 22 25197
4 HOUSE FOX 14.4 21 24877
5 CSI CBS 13.8 20 22522
6 GRAMMY AWARDS(S) CBS 12.1 19 20058
7 CSI: MIAMI CBS 11.9 19 18427
8 DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES ABC 11.2 16 18101
8 TWO AND A HALF MEN CBS 11.2 16 17681
10 DEAL OR NO DEAL-MON NBC 10.8 16 17413
11 CRIMINAL MINDS CBS 10.5 15 16274
12 NCIS CBS 10.2 15 16162
13 CSI: NY CBS 9.7 15 14972
13 RULES OF ENGAGEMENT CBS 9.7 14 14835
13 SURVIVOR: FIJI CBS 9.7 15 16441
16 60 MINUTES CBS 9.4 15 14118
17 EXTREME MAKEOVER:HOME ED. ABC 9.3 14 16931
17 SHARK CBS 9.3 15 14531
19 LAW AND ORDER:SVU NBC 9.0 15 13452
19 UGLY BETTY ABC 9.0 14 14275



Source: Nielsen Media Research


But I am sure someone will argue with me and tell us this is where it was last year too :rolleyes:

This may have been mentioned, but I was watching the recap show from last week and noticed the Pilot of the plane is the actor that plays Matt (the Cop) on Heroes. At least I'm pretty sure it was him.

Until they start accounting for all of us who timeshift to get rid of all the damned commercials, I doubt they will ever have good idea of where lost really falls. I, like most of my friends, refuse to watch this in real-time.

This may have been mentioned, but I was watching the recap show from last week and noticed the Pilot of the plane is the actor that plays Matt (the Cop) on Heroes. At least I'm pretty sure it was him.

It was him. According to the commentary on MI:3, he is a good friend of J.J.'s and cameos in most of his productions.

Strange.... I just found this on USA Today. According to this, LOST did crack the top 20 (barely). Although, viewership is down at least 6M.


Top broadcast shows
Rank Season Avg Show title Network Viewers in millions
1 X American Idol (Tues) Fox 33.4
2 X American Idol (Wed) Fox 27.9
3 1 Grey's Anatomy ABC 25.2
4 2 House Fox 24.9
5 12 CSI CBS 22.5
6 X Grammy Awards CBS 20.1
7 6 CSI:Miami CBS 18.4
8 5 Desperate Housewives NBC 18.1
9 11 Two and a Half Men ABC 17.7
10 23 Deal or No Deal (Mon) NBC 17.4
11 21 Extreme Home Makeover ABC 16.9
11 26 Survivor: Fiji CBS 16.4
13 25 Criminal Minds CBS 16.3
14 8 NCIS CBS 16.2
15 16 CSI: NY CBS 15
16 68 Rules of Engagement CBS 14.8
17 20 Heroes NBC 14.6
18 X Shark CBS 14.5
18 29 Lost ABC 14.5
20 N/A Ugly Betty ABC 14.3


Source (http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/nielsen.htm)

Sorry...the table is a mess. :)

Until they start accounting for all of us who timeshift to get rid of all the damned commercials, I doubt they will ever have good idea of where lost really falls. I, like most of my friends, refuse to watch this in real-time.
Then they don't care about you and they will never count you. Ratings only exist so advertisers can estimate many people are exposed to their ads. The network doesn't care how many people watch the show, they only care about how many people watch the ads. (Yes, a lot of people channel surf, go to the bathroom, etc during commercials, but they are still exposed to them in a way that timeshifters aren't.)

It was him. According to the commentary on MI:3, he is a good friend of J.J.'s and cameos in most of his productions.

Greg Grunberg was also a regular cast member on Abram's Felicity and Alias.

At least LOST beat out UGLY BETTY. :o (OK, haven't seen that show, so shouldn't comment)

I have 3 "glads":

I'm glad to have the season back, my friends and I are looking forward to all these episodes in a row.

I'm also glad it moved from 8pm to 9pm Central Time, as that makes it easier for me to watch.

I'm glad my wife likes to watch LOST, so that I can still watch it on Valentine's Day. :)

Strange.... I just found this on USA Today. According to this, LOST did crack the top 20 (barely).

Is it possible that the Others are not actually Dharma, but perhaps another group who took over their facilities, either through hostile or squatter means?

I always thought it was a bit odd how the Others didn't really seem to know much about the hatch and what was going on down there. Perhaps it was the losties who alerted them to its presence.

I thought it was strange how the others sent Michael to rescue Benry from the hatch - as if it was a forbidden place for them to go.

However, Tom did seem to know how long it took the bears to figure out the fish biscuit machine. So it would seem he was in on some type of experiment there.

Hmmm - makes you think.

One last question - would you eat a fish shaped cookie that came out of an old rusty machine? That just sort of grossed me out.
I guess if you are hungry you'll try it.


Dharma? Thought the recruiters were from an outfit called Mittelos Bioscience or some such. Now, it could be a front for Dharma (maybe Ethan was traded to Mittelos for a future draft choice and an undisclosed amount of cash), but it might just be another organization like the Hanso Foundation or Dharma, or..... whatever. With this show, you can never be sure (because they never tell you. :p ). We're still not sure how Dharma ties in with Hanso....

At least LOST beat out UGLY BETTY. :o (OK, haven't seen that show, so shouldn't comment)



My fiance loves it...it's actually growing it's key demos. It's a girly show, but it has it's moments. Salma Hayek's breasts for example :-)

One last question - would you eat a fish shaped cookie that came out of an old rusty machine? That just sort of grossed me out.
I guess if you are hungry you'll try it.

You oughta see what they eat on Fear Factor!

Through Season 2 it was a consistently Top Ten show, I would need fredfa to back me up on the numbers. I think even through the fall that was the case, as it didn't have to compete with AI.Quick check from Wiki shows:

USA TV Ratings

The pilot episode garnered 18.6 million viewers, easily winning its 9/8central timeslot, and giving ABC its strongest ratings since 2000 when Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? initially aired — beaten only the following month by the premiere of Desperate Housewives. According to Variety, "ABC sure could use a breakout drama success, as it hasn't had a real hit since The Practice. Lost represents the network's best start for a drama with eighteen to forty-nine year olds since Once and Again in 1999, and in total viewers since Murder One in 1995."[45]

Based on its strong opening, Reuters dubbed it a "hit drama" noting that "the show appeared to have benefited from an all-out marketing blitz that included radio spots, special screenings and ABC's first billboard advertising campaign in five years."[46] After four episodes aired, ABC announced Lost had been picked up for a full season order.[47]

For its first season, Lost averaged 16 million viewers, ranking 14th in viewership among prime-time shows, and 15th among the eighteen to forty-nine year old demographic.[48] Its second season fared equally well: again, Lost ranked 14th in viewership, with an average of 15.5 million viewers. However, it improved its rating with eighteen to forty-nine year olds, ranking 8th.[49] The second season premiere was even stronger than the first, pulling in over 23 million viewers and setting a series record.[50] However the third season premiere saw a drop in its ratings; averaging 18.8 million viewers.[51]So last season opened huge with a giant premiere (everybody wanted to see what was in the hatch) but ended up ranked 14th overall on the year with 15.5 mil average. This season actually opened with the 18.8 premiere (higher than last seasons average) and has settled right back into the 14-15 mil pace I think it's had since it picked back up towards the end of last season. With the 18.8 I would think that this seasons premiere was top 10. Not so sure about any of the others though.

I had a Doctor's appt this morning and while I was sitting in the waiting room I read the LOST article in the TV guide from last week(?). It was only a couple pages but it got me a little more stoked. They quoted the producers reiterating that they now think the little mini season this fall was a mistake, and that they really want to do the straight through run next season. They went on to talk a bit about the upcoming ep's and if they are to be believed, it sounds like by the time we hit the end of March we should have answers to some of the "burning questions" people have been begging for. They pointed specifically to a Sayid centric ep where apparently he himself asks all the questions all the viewers have been asking (and supposedly at least some of them are answered in the process).


ron

You oughta see what they eat on Fear Factor!
They still make Fear Factor? ;)

(With this online viewing business going on,) I'm surprised as heck ABC's re-airing last week's ep. Not complaining, though; I get a second chance to record as bad weather messed things up last time.

It will be interesting to see how the ratings compare between the repeat and the new episode. :eek:

My money's on the new episode. :)

Sure, but wouldn't that be something if it only beat the repeat by a few points or so? 10pm is later than 9pm, and for many that's too late. I think in addition to trouble with competition at 9pm, a 10pm start is also a potential problem.

So Desmond is stuck on the show "Day Break"?

Lost is back baby!! Excellent start to this episode.

:eek: What a way to give Desmond's backstory, eh?

wow....Drew Goddard and Damon pulled that off.....fantastic...bloody fantastic...best episode of Lost is a LONG TIME...that might rank in the Top 3...

I didn't even see that coming that he was saving Charlie and not Claire....wow, great twist

Anybody else notice the parallel between Jin and Sun and Dez and Pen? Great stuff...

I'm so glad Lost is back...and there are no more repeats...

Loved that episode. My favorite of the season by far. Next week's looks promising too.

:eek: What a way to give Desmond's backstory, eh?

:cool: Lesson: Red shoes = bad. Strange Wizard of Oz reference, maybe??

Great episode! I though last week was strong, but this week had more mystery and drama than I've seen in quite some time. Can't wait for the next ep.

There was a whole segment only in SD here in the Little Rock area. Guess it was some idiot forgetting to flip the switch at KATV instead of a network-wide thing (since there are no posts on it). I'll be e-mailing the GM tomorrow to inquire why that happens and what he plans to do to fix it.

There was a whole segment only in SD here in the Little Rock area. Guess it was some idiot forgetting to flip the switch at KATV instead of a network-wide thing (since there are no posts on it). I'll be e-mailing the GM tomorrow to inquire why that happens and what he plans to do to fix it.

I got that, too (live in LR).

For whatever reason that always seems to happen when I want to watch network shows in HD. I don't know how the local networks have done with HD broadcasts overall, but the limited time that I watch HD on their channels have shown some spotty service. It seems worse with the ABC and NBC stations; I haven't had a problem so far with 24 on Fox.

At the end of tonight's first episode (last week's repeat), I just noticed Jack's epiphany. He knows Juliette isn't going home, because Blue-Beard started telling him why they're currently stuck (doing the surgery) on the island. Jack suddenly nipped an artery during Benry's open-back surgery, and didn't allow him to finish explaining.

It has to do with the numbers counting down, the hatch going nuclear, and "the sky turning purple." A reason that Juliette is appearently unaware of. So I'm wondering if Benry's gonna kill her? She's gonna at least share a cell with Jack for her treason.

wow....Drew Goddard and Damon pulled that off.....fantastic...bloody fantastic...best episode of Lost is a LONG TIME...that might rank in the Top 3...



I thought it was absolutely dire. On every level.

Normally I like Desmond but after sitting through 7 episodes of Sawyer and Kate in a cage I was expecting to see some progression at the beach and got 35 minutes of Desmond retelling his back story. And a story that went nowhere except repeating the Jin/Sun drama.

All the deja vu moments and other characters served no purpose at all. It was obvious that he was just having a confused memory recollection.

I expect the ratings will drop even more next week after this episode.

Is it possible that the Others are not actually Dharma, but perhaps another group who took over their facilities, either through hostile or squatter means?

I always thought it was a bit odd how the Others didn't really seem to know much about the hatch and what was going on down there. Perhaps it was the losties who alerted them to its presence.


The Others could be remnants of the Dharma group sent to the island to solve the Valenzetti equation who either stayed because they couldn't solve the equation and wanted to stay somewhere that was relatively safe (with or without the permission of Dharma), or discovered that the ancient civilization on the island had the key to survival and buried it there and that's what they are trying to dig up in secret. They either killed the other members of the team or didn't go back when the group was recalled in order to keep this knowledge for themselves.

Maybe The Others are the reason the Hanso foundation sent a quarantine vessel to the island. To bring them all back.

To be honest I've stopped caring. Plausible answers to the big questions just aren't that elusive anymore.

I thought it was absolutely dire. On every level.

Normally I like Desmond but after sitting through 7 episodes of Sawyer and Kate in a cage I was expecting to see some progression at the beach and got 35 minutes of Desmond retelling his back story. And a story that went nowhere except repeating the Jin/Sun drama.

All the deja vu moments and other characters served no purpose at all. It was obvious that he was just having a confused memory recollection.

I expect the ratings will drop even more next week after this episode.

i hate to say it, but I agree.....what are they doing? Just move the story along already..you made us wait 3 months for new episodes and we get this? come on now.

i hate to say it, but I agree.....what are they doing? Just move the story along already..you made us wait 3 months for new episodes and we get this? come on now.

what made this worse is that the trailers for the next week at the end of Lost are just flat out misleading. They often throw the best and only exciting 30 seconds of an episode together. If I wasn't used to this I would have been extremely annoyed (instead of just bored) after seeing the promise of last week.

Last week, showed the entire cast interacting once more, a rescue plan, running through the jungle dramatically and explosions. What actually happened was some of the cast reappeared for 5 minutes and then Desmond had a lucid memory. It's a complete waste of the ensemble cast.

When the show started it had been so long since we saw Eko die that I actually forgot that Charlie and Hurley still didn't know!

I liked this latest episode, but what the hell did it all mean? Did Des actually go back in time? Did he just dream all this stuff after being knocked out? How the hell can he see the future?

Enough with the adding of 10 new mysteries and then only answering one or two all season. This video pretty much sums it all up.

Writers of Lost (http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BB29A4AEDE0D956F45CC7B35FA FE1B8CD6)

Strange.... I just found this on USA Today. According to this, LOST did crack the top 20 (barely). Although, viewership is down at least 6M.


Top broadcast shows
Rank Season Avg Show title Network Viewers in millions
1 X American Idol (Tues) Fox 33.4
2 X American Idol (Wed) Fox 27.9
3 1 Grey's Anatomy ABC 25.2
4 2 House Fox 24.9
5 12 CSI CBS 22.5
6 X Grammy Awards CBS 20.1
7 6 CSI:Miami CBS 18.4
8 5 Desperate Housewives NBC 18.1
9 11 Two and a Half Men ABC 17.7
10 23 Deal or No Deal (Mon) NBC 17.4
11 21 Extreme Home Makeover ABC 16.9
11 26 Survivor: Fiji CBS 16.4
13 25 Criminal Minds CBS 16.3
14 8 NCIS CBS 16.2
15 16 CSI: NY CBS 15
16 68 Rules of Engagement CBS 14.8
17 20 Heroes NBC 14.6
18 X Shark CBS 14.5
18 29 Lost ABC 14.5
20 N/A Ugly Betty ABC 14.3


Source (http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/nielsen.htm)

Sorry...the table is a mess. :)

took me close to an hour to get the table right :( Kudos to Fredfa for dealing with tables and making them look right.

The difference is in ratings, share and audience.

Ratings is a percent of the total population.

Share is the percent of people actually using televisions - as the entire population is not using a TV at that time.

Your audience numbers are rounded - where mine are exact - and that's where the issue is at #20.

IE - Top number for you is 33.4 where mine is an exact 33356

My numbers are based on rating - the most important number - the percent of the country watching.

Yours is based share/audience.

The problem with share is that the HUT (Households Using Television) levels are different on different nights and different parts of the year.

You can have a big share on a night with very few people using TV (Friday or Saturday Night for example).

Ratings as it is a percent of the overall population accounts for that difference and is what commercial sales are based on.

Now, as clearly R11 and Nutty still haven't figured out and continue to show numbers share number which doesnt account for different HUT levels (and thus no one in the Broadcast Industry cares about) THE RATINGS FOR LOST SEASON 3 PREMIERE WERE DOWN 18%.... Again, the USA Today numbers are SHARES not RATINGS.....and shares mean literally nothing as different numbers of TVs are actually turned on.

That's why Marc and the other Industry Sites will use the Ratings number - not share numbers.

Besides all of the commercial interruptions... my impression of last night's episode was:

Time travel? Life flashing before Desmond's eyes... yada, yada, yada, until...

we realize Desmond is trying to prevent Charlie from dying, upon which I had the same chilling sensation as when Dr. Malcolm Crowe realizes he's dead in the Sixth Sense.

Nice plot twist.

BTW... I agree with the sentiment on this thread that the series story arc, if there is one at all, needs to start progressing more... because after nearly (3) seasons of (2) minutes on the Island bracketed by 20 minutes of a character's back story... is becoming tiresome.

This episode worked for me.

One of the main themes has been, "can you change your life?". Disfunctional People stranded on an island with an opportunity to do things differently: will they make different choices or repeat the same behaviors that caused their lives to go caca pre-island?

Desmond's story about how fate works was an integral part of that. It may have been deja vu all over again, but it reinforced that even if time travel were possible, though minor variations could be made, ultimately what is fated to happen, will. That would mean that Desmond has the key, literally and figuratively. He knows how things will progress.

For some reason, Penny kept reminding me of Juliette at certain angles.

Was that a commercial for a movie featuring the number 23???!!!!

LOST WAS BACK in form, finally!!!!

I am watching Lost in Hickory, NC through the Charter feed of the Charlotte affiliate. During Lost (and only Lost) the last two weeks there is an odd stutter in the video that reminds me of playing a computer game when your settings are just a tad too high. Is anyone else getting this?

BTW: Dish Network installs on Sunday.

On Charlie; taking him out to the jungle is what saved him from drowning. The swim was to save Claire alone since Charlie would have never known she was in danger.

I am watching Lost in Hickory, NC through the Charter feed of the Charlotte affiliate. During Lost (and only Lost) the last two weeks there is an odd stutter in the video that reminds me of playing a computer game when your settings are just a tad too high. Is anyone else getting this?

BTW: Dish Network installs on Sunday.

You've got reveiver or cable line issues..

We have had similar problems due to:

1) transmitter on the light pole being too low to the ground (fixed)

2)Currently we have the same issue due to the cable line beling sliced near ground level on the pole (the cale is clearly visible right by our street anyone coul've done it!) :mad:


DISH will be worse on your video/audio issues!

:cool: Lesson: Red shoes = bad. Strange Wizard of Oz reference, maybe??
This will be the second time I've posted this in this thread, but....

I see dead people.....

[QUOTE=Viventis]I am watching Lost in Hickory, NC through the Charter feed of the Charlotte affiliate. During Lost (and only Lost) the last two weeks there is an odd stutter in the video that reminds me of playing a computer game when your settings are just a tad too high. Is anyone else getting this?
[QUOTE]

I'm in Hillsborough, NC. I got the same thing via OTA. It got so bad that I had to turn it to the D* SD channel so I wouldn't miss anything. I thought it was just my antenna.

took me close to an hour to get the table right :( Kudos to Fredfa for dealing with tables and making them look right. The difference is in ratings, share and audience. Ratings is a percent of the total population. Share is the percent of people actually using televisions - as the entire population is not using a TV at that time. Your audience numbers are rounded - where mine are exact - and that's where the issue is at #20. IE - Top number for you is 33.4 where mine is an exact 33356

My numbers are based on rating - the most important number - the percent of the country watching. Yours is based share/audience. The problem with share is that the HUT (Households Using Television) levels are different on different nights and different parts of the year. You can have a big share on a night with very few people using TV (Friday or Saturday Night for example). Ratings as it is a percent of the overall population accounts for that difference and is what commercial sales are based on.

Now, as clearly R11 and Nutty still haven't figured out and continue to show numbers share number which doesnt account for different HUT levels (and thus no one in the Broadcast Industry cares about) THE RATINGS FOR LOST SEASON 3 PREMIERE WERE DOWN 18%.... Again, the USA Today numbers are SHARES not RATINGS.....and shares mean literally nothing as different numbers of TVs are actually turned on. That's why Marc and the other Industry Sites will use the Ratings number - not share numbers.

Yes, rating is the key. Thanks for the clarification. After I posted I spent more time then I wanted researching this. :)

Curious to know if Lost will ever crack the top ten again?

I thought it was absolutely dire. On every level.

Normally I like Desmond but after sitting through 7 episodes of Sawyer and Kate in a cage I was expecting to see some progression at the beach and got 35 minutes of Desmond retelling his back story. And a story that went nowhere except repeating the Jin/Sun drama.

All the deja vu moments and other characters served no purpose at all. It was obvious that he was just having a confused memory recollection.

I expect the ratings will drop even more next week after this episode.

I agree, this episode was just....weird.

The "revelation" at the end was cool, but the other 40 minutes? Bleh.

I enjoyed the episode, as I have all of them this season. Guess that puts me in a minority. Fact is, even an average episode of this show is better than 99% of TV. Great twist at the end! Now we can all speculate on how Charlie's going to buy it. That is, when we're not griping about how lame the show has gotten. :rolleyes:

One thing I was wondering about.... was Desmond going forward in time from the original events, getting glimpses and flashes of future events, or backward from the moment of turning the key? My guess is backward; looks like he may have become "unstuck in time" because of the hatch implosion - I kind of expected to see someone in the cast reading "Slaughterhouse Five". And was the old woman (that actress plays the family matriarch in Showtime's excellent 'Brotherhood', BTW) just a figment of his imagination, or was she a literal "guide" to assist him in his journey? Maybe a Dharma member who has also become "unstuck" and kind of floats around in space-time limbo....? Now that would be fun direction to go in.

Anyway, looks like ANSWERS are forthcoming next week, according to the previews. Looks like the producers have gotten the message: some questions need to be answered to placate the restless mob. ;)

Theory Time.

Desmond is stuck in a time loop, a la "Daybreak". The "catch 22" is that although he can postpone the future, he cannot change it. He will again go back into his past and will make Penny a believer, which is why she has the Serbian scientists watching for the anomoly.

The question becomes will he be able to "undo" his participation in the crash of 801. If he does, will it just crash elsewhere, already being off course with no navigation. If he doesn't use the fail safe device, then will Penny ever find him. The jewelry store lady already confirmed they would never be together.

Is the film of our "losties" arriving at some alternate destination already "in the can"??? (the problem with Walt aging).

And will Desmond somehow communicate to Locke in a trip back in time about the island. And will Locke show up again at the hatch, this time knowing the answer to "the question"???

My guess is that Desmond makes the choice of "saving the world" over the possibilty of reuniting with Penny. Is this all some sort of character test devised by Penny's father???

Anyone think Claire looked a LOT thinner than the last time we've seen her? Personally, I liked her with a little more meat on her bones.

The plot appears to be getting a little bit more Donnie Darko-esque. They should have thrown a giant demented bunny in the background somewhere, just to acknowledge it.

Desmond's story about how fate works was an integral part of that. It may have been deja vu all over again, but it reinforced that even if time travel were possible, though minor variations could be made, ultimately what is fated to happen, will. That would mean that Desmond has the key, literally and figuratively. He knows how things will progress.


I didn't see any evidence of time travel in this episode. What I saw was the result of Desmond being to close to the bunker implosion. He blacked out and started dreaming, in which he started remembering his past and during the dream became conscious of it. It's not unusual to try and change events during lucid dreams.

As for the future prediction element. I just thought immediately of Paycheck. If you have a powerful enough laser or burst of energy (as the bunker containment system had when it blew up) you can get a glimpse of events in the future. The bending light back on itself to the point were you pass the original starting point thing. Which would make sense if the point of Dharma was to try and find a way to change future events. The device would allow them to check if what they were doing was working.

Now all that Desmond is doing is remembering the events he glimpsed by being so close to the device explosion. He doesn't know everything, just the fragments he remembers.

As for the twist at the end, I was more surprised that Charlie didn't say "At last! now I can get off this island. They haven't used me in months, I don't know what I'm doing here!" Charlie has been so underused (or had poor storylines) over the past two seasons, a lot of people have been expecting him to get killed off before now.

The twist at the end was good, the rest was mediocre at best for Lost. Which, yes, is still better than most of the stuff on TV. If Desmond can see the future, doesn't he know that his eyes should turn white and he should be painting it, :D that makes for a more interesting visual.

I like the character of Desmond, but I like it when episodes include more storylines happening. Is this the longest an episode concentrated on just one character?

Charlie is the LAST person who should want off the Island - he's engaged to Kate! :)

I thought it was absolutely dire. On every level.

Normally I like Desmond but after sitting through 7 episodes of Sawyer and Kate in a cage I was expecting to see some progression at the beach and got 35 minutes of Desmond retelling his back story. And a story that went nowhere except repeating the Jin/Sun drama.

All the deja vu moments and other characters served no purpose at all. It was obvious that he was just having a confused memory recollection.

I expect the ratings will drop even more next week after this episode.

I agree completely. I liked nothing about this episode at all ..

...And was the old woman...just a figment of his imagination, or was she a literal "guide" to assist him in his journey?...

She reminded me of the Oracle in 'The Matrix'!

Anyway, looks like ANSWERS are forthcoming next week, according to the previews. Looks like the producers have gotten the message: some questions need to be answered to placate the restless mob. ;)

I don't need or care about answers since the producers have pretty much sucked the mystery out of the show for me. Most of the mysteries from season one have been answered (bears, monster, pirate ship, hatch, plane crash ...) and everything else points to Dharma related experiments.

What I want to see are events actually happening, all the characters being used, and some moments of tension or excitement. No more of sitting in cages or walking along the beach waiting for someone to show up.

Plus, as everyone should know by now ... Lost previews are flat out lies!

Remind me again, what is behind the shadow monstar on the island?

Remind me again, what is behind the shadow monstar on the island?

Plenty of theories but no real conclusions as of yet.

Pirate Ship? I don't remember the answer to it.

Maybe VisionOn is having a 'Desmond moment'. He's already seen the future where all the Season One mysteries have been solved. :)

If you want my opinion, I think Henry is God. I believe he controls all the events of the earth from the Island with the help of his cohorts. He alone has the ability to send people home and orchestrates everything that goes on in the Island.

But in a true sense, God is human.

Anyone think Claire looked a LOT thinner than the last time we've seen her?

You mean when she was pregnant? :)

I like the character of Desmond, but I like it when episodes include more storylines happening. Is this the longest an episode concentrated on just one character?

Other than:

The Hurley "Chicken in a Bucket and Lotto Winnings Don't Mix"
The Hurley "What About Dave" Episode.
The Learning "What Kayt Did to Begin Imagining a Horse" episode
The Locke "I'd Give My Right Kidney to Meet My Dad" episode
The Jack stalker "I hate you, Dad" episode
The Jin, "How I Became a Gangsta' In the Hood" Episode
The Michael, or "How I Ending Up Being A Pathetic Whiny Brat That Spends All Future Episodes Repeating 'They Took My Boy!" episode.

Granted, Desmond was in nearly every scene not involving the flashbacks in this episode, but so were some of the others.

Maybe VisionOn is having a 'Desmond moment'. He's already seen the future where all the Season One mysteries have been solved. :)

This is one of the biggest mistakes the creator's made. They said the Lost experience wouldn't reveal anything outside of the TV show when in fact it's cleared up a lot. I haven't even followed the Lost Experience but the bare bones info has trickled down and it clears up a huge chunk. All of which should have made it in to the show by now, but hasn't. The numbers explanation even got featured in TV Guide!

The pirate ship, was a slave ship owned by one of the Hanso's and probably the reason they discovered the islands existence and it's unusual magnetic properties. From what I remember, why it's in the middle of the island is probably due to volcanic activity raising sea level since the time it crashed there.

The monster is responsible for the visions everyone was having, as mentioned last week. What it is exactly is unclear but it's obviously some Dharma created thing, which kind of sucks the fun out of it.

The hatch, bears, the Dharma shark, plane crash etc. all got cleared up last season.

Interesting to see the parallel between Desmond on Lost and Hiro on Heroes trying to alter past events but coming to the conclusion that fate can not be changed. Not that this is a new story line, but unusual to see it on two different shows running concurrently.

Use of flashbacks has been central to the show's storytelling since the beginning. Desmond's flashback was a new variation in that it appeared to be just a dream throughout the show, but in typical Lost fashion the last minute twist reveals that all is not so obvious. It'll be interesting to see how Desmond's ability will playout in the show. He just may run off again like he did before.

Interesting ending, didn't see that coming where Desmond's job is to save Charlie. But if everyone will remember, before Eko died, he told Locke that he's next, yet Locke's still hangin' around the island. Desmond told Charlie that he's next. Therefore, either (a) Desmond or Eko got some bad info, or (b) Charlie and Locke are destined to die at the same time in an upcoming event.

As for the Oracle/Matrix comment, I thought to myself that the writer ripped off that movie during that part. I was waiting for Desmond to hear that he's in a computer. Brotha, I should've taken the blue pill!

She reminded me of the Oracle in 'The Matrix'!

My thoughts exactly. Sitting on the bench, eating, just like the Oracle.

You mean when she was pregnant? :)


LOL. No, after she gave birth. But, if she was pregnant in real life, then I can understand why she's thinner now than after giving birth on the show.

Look at her face now, then go back to season 1 or 2 and look at her face.

Did anyone get a screen cap of the painting in Whitmore's office? I saw a polar bear, and the word namaste (backwards), but it blinked by to fast. Was there anything else interesting on the painting?

I'm a bit surprised by the negative comments on this episode. I thought this was a terrific episode - the best in quite awhile for me. I was thoroughly engaged and even "lost" track of time, which doesn't happen very often for me with tv anymore.

The 2 jaw-dropping moments for me were when the jewlery store owner started talking to him about his situation and when he told Charlie at the end that he was actually saving him. Good stuff!

I actually think Desmond is the central character in this show - not Jack, not Locke, not Hurley. When we look back on the series in a few years, it will really be mostly about him and his choices he made about Penny. It's about freewill vs fate and the choices we make in our lives.

Everyone has their own ideas about what makes a good Lost episode. For me, this was it - facinating mysteries and stunning plot twists that serve the central themes.

Overnights in the 18-49 Demo
ABC's 'Lost' struggling to find its way
By Toni Fitzgerald MediaLifeMagazine.com staff writer Feb 15, 2007

In its second week back from a midseason hiatus, ABC hit “Lost” continued to show ratings declines. The question now is what is causing them and whether they can be reversed.

Last night’s episode averaged a 5.6 adults 18-49 rating, according to Nielsen overnights, down 14 percent from the previous week’s 6.5 and 23 percent from its season-to-date average of 7.3.

It also lost 2 million total viewers from the previous week, down to 12.7 million, nearly 2 million behind competing “CSI: NY” on CBS. But “Lost” was first in the timeslot in 18-49s.

There are certainly a myriad of possible reasons for the falloff, and one is that “Lost” has moved into a new, later 10 p.m. timeslot, an hour when TV usage in general falls off.

Thus it could be that “Lost” will see an uptick in digital video recorder ratings when they are released, explaining some of the decline though nowhere near all of it.

Another reason for “Lost’s” decline since last fall is that it no longer has strong lead-in “Dancing with the Stars.” Last night its lead-in, a repeat of “Lost,” averaged a 2.1, less than half “Stars’” average last fall.

But the most likely reason is that fans are dissatisfied with the drama’s dragging plotlines. Message boards are full of complaints about producers’ failure to tie up almost any of the mysteries on the show, instead adding new ones as well as new characters.

While last week’s premiere won praise from critics, this week focused on a completely different group of survivors, a fractioning also unpopular with fans. Some may have decided that they’re sick of waiting.

If that’s the case, then the ratings declines may not be reversible unless more answers are given.

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_10230.asp

(From Marc Berman’s Thursday, Feb. 15, 2007, Programming Insider column and blog at Mediaweek.com )
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/45910043?r=61010143#61010143
Overnight Ratings for Wednesday, February 14th

“…Without the benefit of any lead-in support, ABC’s once unstoppable Lost has -- excuse the pun -- lost steam in its new time period, Wednesday at 10 p.m., with a series-low 12.77 million viewers (#2) and a 5.6/14 among adults 18-49 (#1). While this is still a vast improvement over former occupants The Nine and Invasion, comparably that was a loss of 3.90 million viewers and 19 percent among adults 18-49 from its 9 p.m. average earlier this season (Viewers: 16.67 million; A18-49: 6.9/17). Absence (and a new time period), no doubt, do not always make the ratings’ heart grow fonder.

CBS’ CSI: NY led the 10 p.m. hour in total viewers, with 14.63 million, while finishing second behind Lost among adults 18-49 (4.4/11). Third was NBC’s disappointing Medium at 8.63 million viewers and a 3.0/ 8 among adults 18-49….”

• Source: Nielsen Media Research data

I'm a bit surprised by the negative comments on this episode. I thought this was a terrific episode - the best in quite awhile for me. I was thoroughly engaged and even "lost" track of time, which doesn't happen very often for me with tv anymore.

The 2 jaw-dropping moments for me were when the jewlery store owner started talking to him about his situation and when he told Charlie at the end that he was actually saving him. Good stuff!

I actually think Desmond is the central character in this show - not Jack, not Locke, not Hurley. When we look back on the series in a few years, it will really be mostly about him and his choices he made about Penny. It's about freewill vs fate and the choices we make in our lives.

Everyone has their own ideas about what makes a good Lost episode. For me, this was it - facinating mysteries and stunning plot twists that serve the central themes.

I, too, enjoyed the episode. In fact, both my wife and I - who had not liked the way the first 6 eps went at the beginning of the season - took almost 5 days to watch last week's episode figuring it would be more of the same. This week we started watching it on the DVR before it was over. Hard to explain but I think the pacing is better in the last 2 episodes. I also lost track of the time during last night's episode and was surprised to see that it was almost over when Desmond provided the revelation to Charlie. We'll see - only 2 eps into Part II of Season 3; hopefully we can see more of the cast in upcoming episodes.

...But if everyone will remember, before Eko died, he told Locke that he's next, yet Locke's still hangin' around the island. Desmond told Charlie that he's next. Therefore, either (a) Desmond or Eko got some bad info, or (b) Charlie and Locke are destined to die at the same time in an upcoming event.
I don't thing he ever specifically said Locke was going next. He did imply the "security system" was going after others in the group at some point.

I'm a bit surprised by the negative comments on this episode. I thought this was a terrific episode - the best in quite awhile for me. I was thoroughly engaged and even "lost" track of time, which doesn't happen very often for me with tv anymore.

The 2 jaw-dropping moments for me were when the jewlery store owner started talking to him about his situation and when he told Charlie at the end that he was actually saving him. Good stuff!

I actually think Desmond is the central character in this show - not Jack, not Locke, not Hurley. When we look back on the series in a few years, it will really be mostly about him and his choices he made about Penny. It's about freewill vs fate and the choices we make in our lives.

Everyone has their own ideas about what makes a good Lost episode. For me, this was it - facinating mysteries and stunning plot twists that serve the central themes.
I liked it too. Maybe people are just getting too picky - or 24 has leached their brains away. Sure, it wasn't one of the top 5 episodes of the series, but it was possibly in the top 10 for me. It certainly was one of the best this season - and certainly better than last week's.

OK, so let's see: The island people are stuck in a time loop, but only Desmond gets it...as I see it playing out, after the next "cycle" he convinces Penny of whats going on....that would explain the end of season 2, the 2 guys on the remote outpost alerting her to the magnetic disturbance....the new questions seem to me are: Whats the event that triggers the end/ beginning of the loop? Charlies death? During the preview, the girl says The Others on the island are "watching"...are they aware of the "loop"? Is everyone on the same loop, or have some been on it longer than others? I've always wondered why Sawyers' nicknames usually reference the 80's...hhmmmm.

I liked it too. Maybe people are just getting too picky - or 24 has leached their brains away. Sure, it wasn't one of the top 5 episodes of the series, but it was possibly in the top 10 for me. It certainly was one of the best this season - and certainly better than last week's.


These first 2 eps of '07 have been great. But ABC really screwed the pooch on this...the ratings are suffering for their misteps in scheduling and pacing.

I wish people would stop obsessing over the ratings. The show isn't in danger of cancellation anytime soon. The ratings are of concern to the network and their sponsors, but have no relevance to the end viewer. If this were a show "on the bubble" and there was a legitimate concern that it could be cancelled without story resolution, that would be a different matter. As it is, the doom & gloom whining about ratings serves no purpose. People should just enjoy the damn show.

Did anyone get a screen cap of the painting in Whitmore's office? I saw a polar bear, and the word namaste (backwards), but it blinked by to fast. Was there anything else interesting on the painting?

Here (http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/02/namaste-and-polar-bears.html), from the Lost Easter Eggs blog.

As for the ratings, I agree with Iteki and Josh Z. Don't worry. Also, I believe it's the network's fault and not the show's. Reminds me of Sports Night several years ago.


tim

I wish people would stop obsessing over the ratings. The show isn't in danger of cancellation anytime soon. The ratings are of concern to the network and their sponsors, but have no relevance to the end viewer. If this were a show "on the bubble" and there was a legitimate concern that it could be cancelled without story resolution, that would be a different matter. As it is, the doom & gloom whining about ratings serves no purpose. People should just enjoy the damn show.


It's not an obsession, just practicality. WHen the ratings were booming, the producers had carte blanche. If they continue this spiral, they may find themselves painted into a corner and forced to speed things up.

I've always stated, and have never wavered from it, that I love the show and will watch until it's conclusion. But from peaks of 20 million to the valley of 12 means that at least 8 million people have lost patience with the shows format, and that's not insignificant.

Lost requires several qualities that the average viewer does not possess: attention span, intelligence, patience, commitment. Ratings will continue to decline as the plot becomes more complex and challenging. People seem to prefer simple predicatable immediate solutions. That's why the crime drama will always be king.

I

I loved this episode. Not surprising for me, because I have always found the people's back stories much more interesting than the action on the island. For the first time in a long time I found myself saying "whoaaaa", and hanging on the next words. Great episode for me. It's got me energized again.

OK, so let's see: The island people are stuck in a time loop, but only Desmond gets it...as I see it playing out, after the next "cycle" he convinces Penny of whats going on....that would explain the end of season 2, the 2 guys on the remote outpost alerting her to the magnetic disturbance....the new questions seem to me are: Whats the event that triggers the end/ beginning of the loop? Charlies death? During the preview, the girl says The Others on the island are "watching"...are they aware of the "loop"? Is everyone on the same loop, or have some been on it longer than others? I've always wondered why Sawyers' nicknames usually reference the 80's...hhmmmm.

It's Desmond's loop. Only he has power to minipulate the outcome of the loop.

Lost requires several qualities that the average viewer does not possess: attention span, intelligence, patience, commitment. Ratings will continue to decline as the plot becomes more complex and challenging. People seem to prefer simple predicatable immediate solutions. That's why the crime drama will always be king.


And Lost requires several qualities of it's current writing team that they don't possess: pacing, storytelling, consideration for the viewers and the ability to write for more than two or three characters per episode.

I don't see the plot as challenging or complex because the show never reveals the intricacies of the elements involved. I just see it as stalling.

Dharma's a research group, Widmore Labs is supplier, Hanso is a scientist. That's the basic level the show is operating on. It's never got more complex than that.

Lost requires several qualities that the average viewer does not possess: attention span, intelligence, patience, commitment. Ratings will continue to decline as the plot becomes more complex and challenging. People seem to prefer simple predicatable immediate solutions. That's why the crime drama will always be king.

I

I'm not buying into that as an explanation for the drop. LOST isn't a simple or predicatable show and it never has been. Yet 20 million people once watched it, intricacies and all. Nearly half have stopped watching since last seasons finale, not because things became more complicated, but because nothing has really happened and there was no sign of that changing any time soon. Storylines like this require trust on the part of the viewer and that trust has to be rewarded eventually. What have we really learned about Dharma that wasn't in the orientation film? (not talking about the online experience)

We can sit here and pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves how 'attentive, intelligent, patient, and committed' we are, but I guarantee you Execs at ABC are sitting a table asking themselves 'how did we **** this up?!'

Again, I love the show and will stick with it until the end, but I don't think it makes me some kind of 'elite' viewer and everyone else is somehow flawed.

Time travel question. If Desmond is in a time loop intitiated by turning the fail-safe key how does he have memories of events that occur after that? Shouldn't his 3 year loop end at that point?

And Lost requires several qualities of it's current writing team that they don't possess: pacing, storytelling, consideration for the viewers and the ability to write for more than two or three characters per episode.

I don't see the plot as challenging or complex because the show never reveals the intricacies of the elements involved. I just see it as stalling.

Dharma's a research group, Widmore Labs is supplier, Hanso is a scientist. That's the basic level the show is operating on. It's never got more complex than that.

See, you want it to be a science fiction yarn with cardboard characters, when it's actually a human drama with a science fiction backdrop.

Time travel question. If Desmond is in a time loop intitiated by turning the fail-safe key how does he have memories of events that occur after that? Shouldn't his 3 year loop end at that point?

He's been through this loop more than once already, with different beginning and end points.

Time travel question. If Desmond is in a time loop intitiated by turning the fail-safe key how does he have memories of events that occur after that? Shouldn't his 3 year loop end at that point?

you are assuming he is in a time travel loop. I don't think he is and it doesn't fit with the Dharma project.

His past events were just lucid memories and his future predictions could be just a memories of events he saw from the destruction of a remote viewing device in the bunker. This would also explain how Charlie had his memory affected when the bunker blew up as well. It didn't change his past, it just changed his memory of it.

See, you want it to be a science fiction yarn with cardboard characters, when it's actually a human drama with a science fiction backdrop.

How do you perceive that? The off camera story is more complex than the majority of events that take place on the show and if by human drama you mean Kate making doe eyes at Jack and Sawyer, that's soap level. They are rarely put in challenging situations now. They spend most of the time just talking about nothing of consequence and there is rarely any real character conflict because the characters rarely interact.

you are assuming he is in a time travel loop. I don't think he is and it doesn't fit with the Dharma project.

His past events were just lucid memories and his future predictions could be just a memories of events he saw from the destruction of a remote viewing device in the bunker. This would also explain how Charlie had his memory affected when the bunker blew up as well. It didn't change his past, it just changed his memory of it.

Desmond's been back to his past at least once more, probably multiple times. That's why Penny set up the observation station searching for the magnetic anomoly. How else would she know to do so???

"See you in another life." ;)

I also thought it was a great episode. Desmond's experiences were mysterious, dramatic, funny, and bittersweet. I don't know where the story is going with this, but if it was just a dream, how did he know about the lightning, the drowning, and Locke's speech?

And 3 answers next week! Here's what I want to know:

1. How does Jack keep his buzzcut hairdo trimmed?
2. How did Eko's brother's plane get to the island?
3. What are the russian oberver guys from the end of last season up to?