How do you perceive that? The off camera story is more complex than the majority of events that take place on the show and if by human drama you mean Kate making doe eyes at Jack and Sawyer, that's soap level. They are rarely put in challenging situations now. They spend most of the time just talking about nothing of consequence and there is rarely any real character conflict because the characters rarely interact.

The flashbacks are a convention for defining who the characters are, worts and all. I think it's brilliant. How they react to the bizarre events surrounding them is meaningless, or of little interest, unless you fully understand who they are, which rarely occurs in the genre.

I love how people are still complaining about unfinished plot-lines....this is the 3rd season people....if you haven't realized by now, they DON'T COMPLETING FINISH PLOT-LINES ON LOST....GET OVER IT

The story isn't about the island, its about the people...

Great Ep.! I just about gave up on this show.

I just caught up before the beginning of S3, so I never got into the whole Hanso/Dharma thing outside of what was presented in-show. This is probably why I find the Others (with the exception of Ben) very boring.

For me, the biggest cliffhanger ever were the Russians at the end of Season 2...Yeah...someone off the island that knows something is going on! Then a whole mini-season without one mention of it. It feels like this week was a brilliant setup for explaining how Penny knew to look for an Event. I just hope they forget about Jack/Others with their constant PMS for a couple of weeks, and get back to the fun.

Desmond's been back to his past at least once more, probably multiple times. That's why Penny set up the observation station searching for the magnetic anomoly. How else would she know to do so???


because her father owns the company that supplied Dharma with their equipment and supplies. The details of the project have already been leaked out and finding out that Desmond was involved shouldn't take much effort.

All she needed to know was that he was on a research island working with electromagnetism in a general area. Scanning for certain energy readings would be enough to go on.

I don't thing he ever specifically said Locke was going next. He did imply the "security system" was going after others in the group at some point.

I remember the episode where Smokie killed Eko. Eko wispered something into Locke's ear, and when Locke was asked what Eko told him, before he died, Locke said "You're next"

Lost requires several qualities that the average viewer does not possess: attention span, intelligence, patience, commitment. Ratings will continue to decline as the plot becomes more complex and challenging. People seem to prefer simple predicatable immediate solutions. That's why the crime drama will always be king.

I

I'm sorry, I must have missed what you just posted :)

The flashbacks are a convention for defining who the characters are, worts and all. I think it's brilliant. How they react to the bizarre events surrounding them is meaningless, or of little interest, unless you fully understand who they are, which rarely occurs in the genre.

The flashbacks can be great, but that doesn't make the drama on the island any more complex. The days of racial tension between Sayid and the rest of the cast are gone, the criminal past of Sawyer and Kate is pretty much left alone, the conflict of interests is over ... the Losties rarely interact on any level with each other now.

They never get sick, are rarely in any peril, food seems plentiful, nobody mourns the dead or blames each other for the deaths ... very little human drama actually happens outside of flashbacks.

I also thought it was a great episode. Desmond's experiences were mysterious, dramatic, funny, and bittersweet. I don't know where the story is going with this, but if it was just a dream, how did he know about the lightning, the drowning, and Locke's speech?



I tend to think he was dreaming, andt the blast awoke some ESP in him that he never realized he had.

The flashbacks can be great, but that doesn't make the drama on the island any more complex. The days of racial tension between Sayid and the rest of the cast are gone, the criminal past of Sawyer and Kate is pretty much left alone, the conflict of interests is over ... the Losties rarely interact on any level with each other now.

They never get sick, are rarely in any peril, food seems plentiful, nobody mourns the dead or blames each other for the deaths ... very little human drama actually happens outside of flashbacks.

I guess the complexity and mystery of Juliette is more interesting to me than whether or not the smoke monster is made of nanobots or not.

The Others are extremely complex. They are not really sinister people, but for some reason, ordinary people forced into performing sinister actions. We still don't have a clue to the answer to that question, which again, is more intriquing than how Eko's brothers plane got to the island, or how the Black Rock got to where it is.

I'm still enjoying the ride.

The flashbacks can be great, but that doesn't make the drama on the island any more complex. The days of racial tension between Sayid and the rest of the cast are gone, the criminal past of Sawyer and Kate is pretty much left alone, the conflict of interests is over ... the Losties rarely interact on any level with each other now.

They never get sick, are rarely in any peril, food seems plentiful, nobody mourns the dead or blames each other for the deaths ... very little human drama actually happens outside of flashbacks.

Very well stated. I love the flashbacks in general. I didn't this week, but I usually do. It is very feasible to have an intriguing back-story and and intriguing on-island storyline in the same episode. In fact, it's been done many times. I just haven't seen it a lot lately...

Desmond wasn't dreaming. He's timeshifting and it's happening to him since the hatch implosion. Last night's story was about his first trip to the past. As he begins to learn where he is and how he has a chance to "do it right" the second time, he gets interfered with by the jewlery store lady. She is trying to convice Desmond that fate will always have it's way sooner or later. But fate doesn't need an advocate and her attempt to sway Desmond into believing he has no control is going to be exposed as bogus sooner or later. We also know that Desmond has time shifted to the future because he knows about saving Charlie twice now as well as Locke's speech.

I think the time loop affects more than just Desmond. When Kate was first placed in her cage, she was checking it out and started climbing. I believe Sawyer noticed and she climbed back down. When she landed on the ground, there was a close-up on her feet showing her landing in an indentation shaped just like her feet as if she had landed there many times before.

I think the time loop affects more than just Desmond. When Kate was first placed in her cage, she was checking it out and started climbing. I believe Sawyer noticed and she climbed back down. When she landed on the ground, there was a close-up on her feet showing her landing in an indentation shaped just like her feet as if she had landed there many times before.

or it could just be multiple takes and they forgot to correct the footprints

It seems this series is going the way of the X-Files, something that the writers/producers said would not happen. People are losing patience and tuning out. I prefer to postulate about what is happening, how events are inter-related, etc. Part of "enjoying the ride". It seems that most people want to know exactly what is going on. They want the destination, and are constantly asking "are we there yet?". Personally, I feel once the secrets are told, where do we go from there?

As long as the writers have a definite timeline to the story, I will support them. The X-Files got into trouble when the created arcs with no pre-planned explanations.

Does anyone know how many episodes into production they are at this point? Wondering if they will change their timeline for the story.

I didn't see any evidence of time travel in this episode. What I saw was the result of Desmond being to close to the bunker implosion. Right... the bunker implodes then Desmond wakes up naked & he can see into the future... seems plausible to me. :D

I guess the complexity and mystery of Juliette is more interesting to me than whether or not the smoke monster is made of nanobots or not.

The Others are extremely complex. They are not really sinister people, but for some reason, ordinary people forced into performing sinister actions. We still don't have a clue to the answer to that question, which again, is more intriquing than how Eko's brothers plane got to the island, or how the Black Rock got to where it is.

I'm still enjoying the ride.

Complex/dull, depends on how you view The Others. I have no interest in them at all.

I don't care about the history of them when it's told at the expense of characters we already care about.

Kind of off topic - but does anyone know the name of the song that Charlie was singing and who sings it. My wife said it sounded familiar so we were wondering if there was any significance.

Kind of off topic - but does anyone know the name of the song that Charlie was singing and who sings it. My wife said it sounded familiar so we were wondering if there was any significance.

Wonderwall by Oasis.

The time-travel loop thing still doesn't explain how the jewelry shop woman knows who he is, and knows what he's supposed to do. If he had just been there "before" at some other point in life, she would maybe have recognized him as someone she's seen before, but she wouldn't know all this information about him. So she has to be connected to Dharma somehow, she has to have seen what happens to him in the future. Otherwise, she'd be looking at him like "dont I know you from somewhere"?

Right... the bunker implodes then Desmond wakes up naked & he can see into the future... seems plausible to me. :D

well that's one more question that they all skipped over.

Locke and Eko also got out to a safe distance as well.

The other reason I don't think it's time travel is that the show producers have said in the past that they don't think it's Science Fiction. Time travel would push it easily into that genre.

edit:

"Lindelof said that a DVD set of the first season will come out this summer, before a second season begins in the fall. As the show progresses, he added, it won't venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. "We're still trying to be ... firmly ensconced in the world of science fact," he said in an interview. "I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet ... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn't be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel."

Very well stated. I love the flashbacks in general. I didn't this week, but I usually do. It is very feasible to have an intriguing back-story and and intriguing on-island storyline in the same episode. In fact, it's been done many times. I just haven't seen it a lot lately...

and I though Desmond's flashback previously was great. This one told us nothing, it as just an excuse to try and be clever and mysterious.

Desmond joins the army, sails the boat and we knew why he left Penny. References to it before it happens don't add a whole lot.

and I though Desmond's flashback previously was great. This one told us nothing, it as just an excuse to try and be clever and mysterious.

Desmond joins the army, sails the boat and we knew why he left Penny. References to it before it happens don't add a whole lot.

It told me a lot. It explained that for sure the hatch was really saving the world (if you believe the jewelry store lady)

But what it really told me was where Desmonds mind frame is at, which may be important to the future story. We know that he is mad at himself for not "tempting" fate by asking Penny to marry him. Therefore, I think he is going to work hard to keep Charlie alive. Maybe he can change the course of the universe by keeping Charlie alive long enough for him to do something that he shouldn't have done if he would have died already (twice). Or it could be someone else the he saves/helps that impacts the island, its purpose, etc. Time will tell, but at least know we know that Desmond could give a damn about fate and will do whatever he can to "do the right thing".

edit:

"Lindelof said that a DVD set of the first season will come out this summer, before a second season begins in the fall. As the show progresses, he added, it won't venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. "We're still trying to be ... firmly ensconced in the world of science fact," he said in an interview. "I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet ... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn't be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel."

Based on the way the previous mislead us from week to week, I wouldn't be surprised if this was to throw people off too. Also, it says there isn't any time travel. It doesn't say that there won't be any. With this show, all possibilities are open until we see otherwise in my opinion.

Based on the way the previous mislead us from week to week, I wouldn't be surprised if this was to throw people off too. Also, it says there isn't any time travel. It doesn't say that there won't be any. With this show, all possibilities are open until we see otherwise in my opinion.

You can believe that but in order to do so you have to also admit that they are just making this up as they go and they never had the story planned out fully. They've refuted the SF aspects of the show several times along with purgatory and nanotechnology.

Kind of off topic - but does anyone know the name of the song that Charlie was singing and who sings it. My wife said it sounded familiar so we were wondering if there was any significance.

Wonderwall by Oasis +- 1995

http://my.opera.com/musiclyrics/blog/show.dml/153239

All you naysayers out there need to read the excellent article in this week's Entertainment Weekly about Lost. It is very good and for me, alleviated any concerns I had about the overall progress of the show. In general, the 5 year plan of the show is only half over people. Not everything is spelled out over 2 episodes.

All you naysayers out there need to read the excellent article in this week's Entertainment Weekly about Lost. It is very good and for me, alleviated any concerns I had about the overall progress of the show. In general, the 5 year plan of the show is only half over people. Not everything is spelled out over 2 episodes.

Well said. If they gave everything up now, where would they go for the next 2 1/2 years? I've said this before, but it bears repeating: with LOST, it's all about the journey, not the destination. It's unfortunate that so many people have bailed, but they weren't the true hard-core fans anyway. Some of 'em will be back if the show regains that elusive "buzz" factor but realistically, it will probably never be as popular as it was the first season when it was so fresh, new and different. As long as they get a chance to finish the story, that's okay by me. I ain't bailing.

with my wife ;) related to Desmond and Penny?

I think that Desmond embarked on the yacht race to impress/embarass Penny's father. ie he wins, her father has to honor him.

My wife thinks her father gave him the boat to send him on the race and "knows" he won't return.

Any help? Thanks.

...realistically, it will probably never be as popular as it was the first season when it was so fresh, new and different...

...and on at 8 o'clock.

with my wife ;) related to Desmond and Penny?

I think that Desmond embarked on the yacht race to impress/embarass Penny's father. ie he wins, her father has to honor him.

My wife thinks her father gave him the boat to send him on the race and "knows" he won't return.

Any help? Thanks.

No help, but your wife's speculation is interesting. Previously I had only thought the same as you.

RE: Charlie playing guitar; Desmond comes up and creates a scene. Yet on the Island Charlie has no recollection of Desmond, who was pretty much unforgettable in that instance. What am I missing?

Kind of off topic - but does anyone know the name of the song that Charlie was singing and who sings it. My wife said it sounded familiar so we were wondering if there was any significance.I can't name that tune or the artist who performed it, but the next time Charlie remembers this song... he may be singing the blues instead. ;)

Libby gave Desmond the boat.

RE: Charlie playing guitar; Desmond comes up and creates a scene. Yet on the Island Charlie has no recollection of Desmond, who was pretty much unforgettable in that instance. What am I missing?Not much except last nights finale where Desmond tells Charlie he wasn’t saving Claire he was saving Charlie instead. You're going to die “Brother.”

Desmond can time travel, see into the future and Penelope has discovered the Island's location where she will him.

RE: Charlie playing guitar; Desmond comes up and creates a scene. Yet on the Island Charlie has no recollection of Desmond, who was pretty much unforgettable in that instance. What am I missing?
He only created a scene this time because he recognized charlie the original time it probably did not go down like that at all.

Jake

Desmond has suffered at least one concussion. Why is everyone so quick to believe there's something mystical going on instead of the ramblings of a fractured mind.

someone gave me a new idea to think about...


what if ALL of this is a dream inside Desmond's head while on the boat???

These first 2 eps of '07 have been great. But ABC really screwed the pooch on this...the ratings are suffering for their misteps in scheduling and pacing.
agree 150%!!
:D

with my wife ;) related to Desmond and Penny?

I think that Desmond embarked on the yacht race to impress/embarass Penny's father. ie he wins, her father has to honor him.

My wife thinks her father gave him the boat to send him on the race and "knows" he won't return.

Any help? Thanks.

If I remember correctly you're both right.

Wonderwall by Oasis.

That's it - thanks - just downloaded on Itunes. The lyrics are definitely appropriate for Desmond meeting Charlie. These writers really think everything through.

someone gave me a new idea to think about...


what if ALL of this is a dream inside Desmond's head while on the boat???It seemed like it could have been a hallucination by Hurley in the psych ward for a while when he saw Dave, but that's seems to have fallen by the wayside - or more specifically off a cliff.

Libby gave Desmond the boat.

You're right - I forgot! (or...did she?)

Intrigued by the time travel loop theory except I would call it a time loop theory - leave out the travel.
It reminds me of the STNG episode where the Enterprise was stuck in a time loop playing over and over until Data managed to leave a clue to carry over to the next loop. One of my STNG favorite episodes.

The time-travel loop thing still doesn't explain how the jewelry shop woman knows who he is, and knows what he's supposed to do.

wasn't she the psychic that was normally a faker and Ecko investigated her? or was that someone else? would it have been cool if it was her? or if it was the guy Claire talked to who said don't go to the US...

One of the Hanso experiments was remote viewing. Assuming it didn't just mean the hidden cameras this would be psychic phenomena. But may it also mean the ability to perceive some information from the future. If so, their experiements may have discovered ways to send messages (visions, dreams, pseudo-memories, psychic email messages) back in time to the subjects before they were on the island. Desmond may have inadvertanly done this and the shop woman and/or Hanso employees may be doing it on purpose, for gain.

- Tom

Charlie was singing Wonderwall, an Oasis tune.

One of the Hanso experiments was remote viewing. Assuming it didn't just mean the hidden cameras this would be psychic phenomena. But may it also mean the ability to perceive some information from the future. If so, their experiements may have discovered ways to send messages (visions, dreams, pseudo-memories, psychic email messages) back in time to the subjects before they were on the island. Desmond may have inadvertanly done this and the shop woman and/or Hanso employees may be doing it on purpose, for gain.

- Tom

Or maybe that stuff he was injecting himself with was meant to unlock more mental potential...

Desmond's flashback was definitely more "dreamlike" than an actual repeating of events by way of a "time loop." We've seen Locke go on a similar "vision quest" so it looks like the same thing is happening with Dez (I like that nickname).

The biggest clue is the inclusion of Charlie in his "dream." Charlie was a successful member of a chart topping band (Driveshaft). Why would he condescend to playing Oasis tunes on the street corner for spare change? I know his band broke up because of his brother leaving, but I really doubt he would descend quite that far, he certainly hadn't at the time of Flight 815.

Again, I think Desmond is definitely getting "visions" that are allowing him to predict the future (just like Locke did), but he's not actually going through time travel loops.

The biggest clue is the inclusion of Charlie in his "dream." Charlie was a successful member of a chart topping band (Driveshaft). Why would he condescend to playing Oasis tunes on the street corner for spare change? I know his band broke up because of his brother leaving, but I really doubt he would descend quite that far, he certainly hadn't at the time of Flight 815.


Thanks for mentioning that, Irmo. It was one of the biggest "reveals" of the episode and one that bothered me afterwards. Surely Charlie wouldn't have sunk that far, especially considering it was 3 years (or, actually maybe six because Desmond was on the island for 3 years before the Lostaways arrived) before the events on the island. Charlie should have still been with Driveshaft at that point wouldn't he?

The biggest clue is the inclusion of Charlie in his "dream." Charlie was a successful member of a chart topping band (Driveshaft). Why would he condescend to playing Oasis tunes on the street corner for spare change? I know his band broke up because of his brother leaving, but I really doubt he would descend quite that far, he certainly hadn't at the time of Flight 815.
He was a pretty serious drug addict at the time of the flight, so it's possible he had gone down that far. I forget now if the reason for him being on the flight was actually revealed.

Thanks for mentioning that, Irmo. It was one of the biggest "reveals" of the episode and one that bothered me afterwards. Surely Charlie wouldn't have sunk that far, especially considering it was 3 years before the events on the island. Charlie should have still been with Driveshaft at that point wouldn't he?
If you'll remember in one of the early episodes, Kate says to him "you were in Driveshaft, weren't you?"

Charlie, rather defensively, says, "Am in Driveshaft. I play bass."

He may have just been trying to cling on to that one thing that was good in his life.

Desmond's flashback was definitely more "dreamlike" than an actual repeating of events by way of a "time loop." We've seen Locke go on a similar "vision quest" so it looks like the same thing is happening with Dez (I like that nickname).

The biggest clue is the inclusion of Charlie in his "dream." Charlie was a successful member of a chart topping band (Driveshaft). Why would he condescend to playing Oasis tunes on the street corner for spare change? I know his band broke up because of his brother leaving, but I really doubt he would descend quite that far, he certainly hadn't at the time of Flight 815.

Again, I think Desmond is definitely getting "visions" that are allowing him to predict the future (just like Locke did), but he's not actually going through time travel loops.

We don't know the exact chronology...this could have been before Driveshaft when Charlie wasn't an addict. Charlie talked about not doing drugs "this is why we don't do drugs" and he didn't look a mess like he did when he was using. It was likely before Driveshaft hit it big.

We don't know the exact chronology...this could have been before Driveshaft when Charlie wasn't an addict. Charlie talked about not doing drugs "this is why we don't do drugs" and he didn't look a mess like he did when he was using. It was likely before Driveshaft hit it big.

That's what I surmised.

Here are the lyrics to Wonderwall. Pretty fitting:

Today is gonna be the day
That they're gonna throw it back to you
By now you should've somehow
Realized what you gotta do
I don't believe that anybody
Feels the way I do about you now

Backbeat the word was on the street
That the fire in your heart is out
I'm sure you've heard it all before
But you never really had a doubt
I don't believe that anybody feels
The way I do about you now

And all the roads we have to walk along are winding
And all the lights that lead us there are blinding
There are many things that I would
Like to say to you
I don't know how

Because maybe
You're gonna be the one who saves me ?
And after all
You're my wonderwall

Today was gonna be the day?
But they'll never throw it back to you
By now you should've somehow
Realized what you're not to do
I don't believe that anybody
Feels the way I do
About you now

And all the roads that lead to you were winding
And all the lights that light the way are blinding
There are many things that I would like to say to you
I don't know how

I said maybe
You're gonna be the one who saves me ?
And after all
You're my wonderwall

I said maybe
You're gonna be the one who saves me ?
And after an
You're my wonderwall

Said maybe
You're gonna be the one that saves me
You're gonna be the one that saves me
You're gonna be the one that saves me

We don't know the exact chronology...this could have been before Driveshaft when Charlie wasn't an addict. Charlie talked about not doing drugs "this is why we don't do drugs" and he didn't look a mess like he did when he was using. It was likely before Driveshaft hit it big.

You're right, we don't know the chronology, but as archiguy pointed out...this scene would've "occurred" at least 3+ years prior to Charlie et al landing on the island.

Since we don't know the chronology of Driveshaft's move up/down the charts, we can't know for sure...but it just doesn't "feel" right to me.

It would be interesting to go back to Charlie's flashback episodes to get a better feel for that chronology.

Just a thought on what people have been saying about why Lost is not getting the ratings. I think it's a few factors:

1) There will almost always be a drop-off season to season. AI is one exception, but it's the kind of show that can pick up viewers at any time with little knowledge of the show. Lost requires the viewer to either have seen it from the beginning, or deal with being in the dark about certain things. As a result, it's harder to replace viewers that stop watching, so the numbers are guaranteed to slide.

2) People were tolarant of new mysteries being revealed with few answers simply because those mysteries were really very compelling. We started with an invisible monster, polar bears, the numbers, a mysterious French woman, mysterious people who kidnap Walt, then finally a hatch. The second season, we meet Desmond, start seeing evidence of Dharma, find out about yet another group of survivors, and meet the others.

However, midseason, we start having squabbles among the survivors, Michael gets overly annoying, unnessessary deaths occur, half the main cast get's captured and finally the hatch is destroyed. The Ben thing goes on too long, though it wrapped up in a very intriguing way.

This season, we start out with people stuck in cages, Jack becoming annoying in his flashbacks and very little focus on Locke and other compelling characters. Desmond provides some mystery, but the numbers have been forgotten, and the only big "mysterious reveal" was the Other's "neighborhood" and another island.

The other seasons showed a link with the various characters through flashbacks, provided plenty of easter egg elements (the comic, the shark logo, other characters in flashbacks, etc), made clever use of the numbers and provided links to the real world through strange web sites from Dharma, Hanso and even Oceanic Airlines (flight delayed?). Even the websites had hidden extras in them that didn't affect the show, but were fun to hunt for. Now, the web element is all but mainstream, the backstories are simply expanded character studies with no new links or mysteries (the last one, though, I felt was a huge step in the right direction, though).

3) There was no decent cliffhanger for the season split. If they had run this last episode with the Charlie reveal at the end, that might have sparked more enthusiasm for the restart. Instead, we had more of the same plotline at the Dharma camp. Even the episode before the Desmond flashback would have been a nice closure with Juliet's revelation about possibly "being allowed to leave". Finally, when the season restarted, we went right back to camp Dharma again.

They killed off an intriguing character in Ecko, tried to replace cast members with cardboard cutouts and have cut way back on the flashbacks that really gives us stuff to ponder.

Simply put, I don't think the problem is with the split season or the time change. The water cooler level of discussion is just gone way down.

I think they can still fix it, though. I can deal with ananswered mysteries as long as the new ones really shake things up. The appeal of the show is the discussions it generates.

Anyone coming into the show now would think it's a scripted version of "Survivor".

We don't know the exact chronology...this could have been before Driveshaft when Charlie wasn't an addict. Charlie talked about not doing drugs "this is why we don't do drugs" and he didn't look a mess like he did when he was using. It was likely before Driveshaft hit it big.
Good point - I forgot about him saying that.

[B]Said maybe
You're gonna be the one that saves me
You're gonna be the one that saves me
You're gonna be the one that saves me

Pretty amazing.

Not only do the writers/producers pick a band that is extremely suiting (Charlie would've likely idolized Oasis as an aspiring musician in the UK), but they also pick lyrics that are extremely suiting to the episode's plot...and they just happen to be the band's greatest hit.

Either they got extremely lucky, or they are just that good.

I got that, too (live in LR).

For whatever reason that always seems to happen when I want to watch network shows in HD. I don't know how the local networks have done with HD broadcasts overall, but the limited time that I watch HD on their channels have shown some spotty service. It seems worse with the ABC and NBC stations; I haven't had a problem so far with 24 on Fox.FOX operates differently from the other networks. They encode the OTA-style digital feed back at their main studio and send that to the local affiliates. Each affiliate is oufitted with a special box that can insert graphics (their local bug, weather crawls, etc.) by only partially decoding and recoding. And of course they can add their own content (news, etc.) or even other subchannels. I believe (and on this part I could be mistaken) they also don't send two feeds, but the SD feed is derived from the HD one.

The other networks send two raw feeds, and HD one and an SD one. The HD one is digital, but at a much higher bitrate. The local affiliates all have their own encoders (of varying quality from what I've seen), and are responsible for mixing the SD and HD feeds. National commercials were generally only on the SD feed, but I believe they are on both now. However, local commercials are inserted at the station, and they apparently are switched into the SD feed first and the HD feed second. I believe what happens is that the local station just switches the HD feed to look at the SD feed, so it can pick up the commercials. But as you noted, they sometimes forget to switch back.

Xesdeeni

I think the rating slide is pretty easy to figure out....the 10pm start time sucks. I used to make a point of watching this live everytime, but now its TIVO time.

I believe (and on this part I could be mistaken) they also don't send two feeds, but the SD feed is derived from the HD one.
Fox does send two separate feeds. The SD feed is the "backup" in case the HD fails which it sometimes does.

I watched the Desmond episode again last night. As an individual episode it was very clever and interesting, but as a Lost episode, I don't appreciate them adding yet another layer of mystery and confusion to the show just when things were starting to make some sense. I hope Desmond's "See you in another life" lines meant they had been planning to introduce this a while ago and wasn't just a one-off mind bending episode that will lead to nothing.

I kind of got the feeling that Charlie's appearance was pre-Driveshaft, or at least before they had their one hit. If he was already famous, when Desmond was questioning him about where he knew him from, he would have just said, "I'm in Driveshaft."

Sorry guys, I still tend to think that Desmond was dreaming while he blacked out from the blast. Did Charlie ever present to Desmond that he was in Driveshaft ? No, instead Desmond knew that Charlie played guitar and had a british accent, therefore in his dream, Charlie is playing a tune from a popular British band, Oasis. In Desmond's dream, Penny was living with him and making D repaint his house. D intimated that this never happened before(ie, living with him), that he didn't want Penny to make him make major changes. The old woman is the voice in his head that told him to not marry Penny, even though his heart told him to. He was always afraid to follow his heart, and he kept on failing Penny.

I still would like to know how the blast could rip off all of his clothes, but not leave any major bruises on him. Unless the writers are actually using the Terminator version of time travel, which doesn't allow Time travel to send clothes, especially underwear, through time

Pretty amazing.

Not only do the writers/producers pick a band that is extremely suiting (Charlie would've likely idolized Oasis as an aspiring musician in the UK), but they also pick lyrics that are extremely suiting to the episode's plot...and they just happen to be the band's greatest hit.

Either they got extremely lucky, or they are just that good.

Neither. The creation of Charlie's TV band has always been obviously influenced by Oasis. From the Manchester music scene they came from, to the endlessly feuding brothers, the drug problem, similar sound ...

although it's good of them to finally drop in some acknowledgment at last.

I still would like to know how the blast could rip off all of his clothes, but not leave any major bruises on him. Unless the writers are actually using the Terminator version of time travel, which doesn't allow Time travel to send clothes, especially underwear, through time

that's because we are automatically assuming that when the key turned it blew up instantly.

For example:

Desmond turns key, speaker announcement - "warning, failsafe activated, you have 1 minute to evacuate"

Locke pulls Desmond out, amidst the chaos of objects flying around. They drag Eko out of the hatch.

Desmond realizes he left behind his book (or something else that reminds him of Penny) and heads back inside. Locke drags Eko away.

Desmond grabs the book. On the way out he gets hit with something corrosive or flammable. Barely escaping the hatch he rips off his clothes to avoid injury.

Bunker implodes. Shockwave knocks everyone unconscious. Purple energy burst appears in sky.

The bunker effect we already know alters the short term memory. Locke, Eko and Charlie are further away and just lose some time. Desmond however is closer to the bunker and feels the full effect of the device being destroyed or releasing it's charge.

Result: Desmond dreams his past while he is unconscious but with a new awareness of it. The characters are just figments of his mind so they can talk back to him. The other side effect of being close to the device energy is that he gets glimpses of future events (as based on Dharma remote viewing experiments and project to change the outcome of future doomsday events). The glimpses he saw he is now remembering as predictions.

Sorry guys, I still tend to think that Desmond was dreaming while he blacked out from the blast. Did Charlie ever present to Desmond that he was in Driveshaft ? No, instead Desmond knew that Charlie played guitar and had a british accent, therefore in his dream, Charlie is playing a tune from a popular British band, Oasis.

I bet he tells charlie his middle name as proof. Unusual name to say the least.

I think the rating slide is pretty easy to figure out....the 10pm start time sucks. I used to make a point of watching this live everytime, but now its TIVO time.

I am the same way (though it is 9 central). I just watch it on Thursdays now. It doesn't hurt that Lost is much more managable to watch when you skip all the commericals too. ;)

So it looks like we will finally find out what the children have been doing in next week's episode. Thank goodness.

<snipped>

The bunker effect we already know alters the short term memory. Locke, Eko and Charlie are further away and just lose some time. Desmond however is closer to the bunker and feels the full effect of the device being destroyed or releasing it's charge.

<snip>


This post got me thinking. What if the "magnetic force" is actually gravitational force that was being controlled in the bunker. This then would support the time travel hypothesis since gravity/black holes/singularities/worm holes are applicable subjects when it comes to time travel.


Mitch

This post got me thinking. What if the "magnetic force" is actually gravitational force that was being controlled in the bunker. This then would support the time travel hypothesis since gravity/black holes/singularities/worm holes are applicable subjects when it comes to time travel.


Mitch

I can't agree with all the theories (a bitter selfish part of me still hopes my old clone theory pans out :-) but I'm glad to see us talking about the show again!

Did anyone happen to notice a clue at the very beginning? When Charlie and Hugo are rifling through Sawyer's stash of stuff, and they find the PlayPen porno magazines, the one on the top of the stack is the "Girls of Fiji".... Since there was so much talk about where on earth the island is located, this is one of those easter eggs that supports the idea of where the island might be.

The time travel theory does have *some* merit once you start thinking about Dez's interaction with Losties prior to the island. Particularly the one with Jack in the tour-de-stad where he seemed to be so wise and knowledgable and almost pre-cognitive.

This post got me thinking. What if the "magnetic force" is actually gravitational force that was being controlled in the bunker. This then would support the time travel hypothesis since gravity/black holes/singularities/worm holes are applicable subjects when it comes to time travel.


or the bunker is just one of the stations that controls a particle accelerator loop that is buried beneath the island. Which would explain why they are in a roughly circular pattern around a central unit. Similar to the Large Hadron Collider.

Did anyone happen to notice a clue at the very beginning? When Charlie and Hugo are rifling through Sawyer's stash of stuff, and they find the PlayPen porno magazines, the one on the top of the stack is the "Girls of Fiji".... Since there was so much talk about where on earth the island is located, this is one of those easter eggs that supports the idea of where the island might be.

There doesn't seem to be much analysis of little clues like this on the forum anymore.

They also pulled out a copy of a book by Vladimir Nabokov. I thought the title had the word "Daughter" in it, but I don't see anything like that in his bibliography. Can anyone confirm what the book was?

Interesting to see the parallel between Desmond on Lost and Hiro on Heroes trying to alter past events but coming to the conclusion that fate can not be changed. Not that this is a new story line, but unusual to see it on two different shows running concurrently.



Like the Apprentice and Survivor with the winner in luxury and the losers with nothing? :D

Actually I have seen many more parallels in more shows recently than the possibly one every year or two I would see in the past.

When I heard the reference to when the sky turned purple, I thought it was something I just didn't recall - but then I saw someone else question it in a post 2 days ago. Do we know what he was talking about - or is this something that was planted to be revealed later?

When I heard the reference to when the sky turned purple, I thought it was something I just didn't recall - but then I saw someone else question it in a post 2 days ago. Do we know what he was talking about - or is this something that was planted to be revealed later?

He's referring to when Desmond turned the failsafe key and blew the hatch.

I forget now if the reason for him being on the flight was actually revealed.
It was. He was in Sydney trying to talk his brother into coming to LA with him to reunite the band. Supposedly there was a producer in LA that wanted to help. His brother declined so Charlie took the flight alone.

It was. He was in Sydney trying to talk his brother into coming to LA with him to reunite the band. Supposedly there was a producer in LA that wanted to help. His brother declined so Charlie took the flight alone.
Thanks - I couldn't remember if that was revealed.

Pretty good that we still have on-topic posts well into Friday! :D

Back on Dez's "flashback": It just felt too dream-like for me to believe that it was an actual recreation of previous events (i.e. a "time loop").

A few examples:

The fact that his GF was moved in with him - someone said earlier she never did
Her behavior didn't seem very "real" (can't quite explain that other than she wasn't very believable - could be an acting thing I guess)
Widmore's office - The painting on the wall was very surreal
Charlie's aforementioned behavior
The "red shoes" incident (another Wizard of Oz - i.e. it was all a dream - reference)


I did very much like the reveal of the origin of the *picture.* Didn't see that one coming until the last minute.

Speaking of, I also liked that they explained how he retrieved that picture...was wondering at the beginning of the show how he still had his picture when his clothes were blown off. I love it when they answer a question actually in-show. :)

obviously the show is coming back next season..but if we continue to see a ratings slide, ending up at, 10 million viewers or less by the season finale, will the producers consider making next season the last?

I sure hope they end it next year..go out on top and explain everything.

100 episodes don't matter for a show like this anyway..nobody is watching serial shows in syndication (see 24 and alias syndication ratings..tnt is regretting getting the rights to alias).

... The other side effect of being close to the device energy is that he gets glimpses of future events (as based on Dharma remote viewing experiments and project to change the outcome of future doomsday events). The glimpses he saw he is now remembering as predictions.

When he intervened to save Charlie the first time (with the golf club as a lightning rod) he might have seen that as a glimpse of a future event, but how could he have seen Claire in the water and Charlie going to try and save her, since that wouldn't have happened if Charlie had already been killed by the lightning? Unless he is continuously in a loop of some sort, moving back and forth. This is the basic problem with the theory of time travel.

When he intervened to save Charlie the first time (with the golf club as a lightning rod) he might have seen that as a glimpse of a future event, but how could he have seen Claire in the water and Charlie going to try and save her, since that wouldn't have happened if Charlie had already been killed by the lightning? Unless he is continuously in a loop of some sort, moving back and forth. This is the basic problem with the theory of time travel.

It can be "explained" by the device they used in the movie Frequency. That is, parallel memories. Each time Desmond changes an event, he "remembers" the new timeline.

Which, as I agree, makes time travel stories the impossibilities they are. They make your head hurt if you think about the paradoxes too much.

It would have to be something different than what is typically considered time travel. Premonitions are too "Charmed", but it could be some sort of rift he entered where his brain is still affected and it can continually see glimpses of future events (continuously updated).

When he intervened to save Charlie the first time (with the golf club as a lightning rod) he might have seen that as a glimpse of a future event, but how could he have seen Claire in the water and Charlie going to try and save her, since that wouldn't have happened if Charlie had already been killed by the lightning? Unless he is continuously in a loop of some sort, moving back and forth. This is the basic problem with the theory of time travel.

The device energy could have given him multiple flashes of different timelines. The purpose of the Dharma project was to change a future event. So it could be that the remote viewing device allows the scientists to view different theoretical timelines based on changes made in the present.

Remote viewing could also be another reason for the Clockwork Orange room. The Others could have been training the kid to access that information.

For all we know all future events on the island have already been viewed and recorded. The files stored in a vault somewhere, Desmond got a burst of that stored information. And the futility of the experiment and finally realization Dharma scientists couldn't change the future is the reason the bunkers were abandoned. The Others could be those who didn't want to leave for their own safety or stayed to continue to try and change the future doomsday event.

I don't know. I'm just making this up as I go.

You know, like the producers. :)

I think the rating slide is pretty easy to figure out....the 10pm start time sucks. I used to make a point of watching this live everytime, but now its TIVO time.

DVR time for me here, too...

And we'll never be counted in Neilsen statistics because they know time-shifters with DVRs skip the commercials, and ratings are all about product delivery (viewers) to advertizers (the real customers of television broadcasting).

So, until the majority of viewers are time-shifting and advertizers change to still frames that are visible during Fast Forward or 30-second slip and Neilsen starts counting delayed viewing, the official ratings won't show how many people are actually watching the show, only how many are exposed to the ads during breaks.

~Dan

Actually I have seen many more parallels in more shows recently than the possibly one every year or two I would see in the past.

I think that's just writers running out of original ideas, like in sit-coms you'll frequently see scenarios that played out in other sit-coms years ago.

I think the rating slide is pretty easy to figure out....the 10pm start time sucks. I used to make a point of watching this live everytime, but now its TIVO time.
I think a lot of viewers already watched with a DVR, so I don't buy into that. In the earlier episodes, there was a lot of freeze-framing and going back to re-watch stuff. I think the only thing that's changed is how long of a time shift people are doing. While I used to watch the show later that night, now I watch the following day.

What they need to do is start capitalizing on the DVR use again. How many people have noticed anything significant to freeze frame lately? How many times have you said, "I think we need to watch that again?" The producers used to cleverly place elements into the images that could only be seen if you had a DVR - and that was a lot of fun.

How many posts of this thread were devoted to talking about the few visible frames of the Dharma tattoo on the shark tail? How much discussion did the scan ol' Smokey did on EKE generate? How many screen shots were previously posted showing the use of the numbers? The closest thing we got last week was Desmond doing a double take when he heard related numbers.

This show can survive as a DVR show. It was one at its most popular timeframe. They need to give people a reason to DVR it other than it's just late.

My DVR'ed Lost episode dropped about 5 seconds of sound about every 3 minutes. Too infuriating to watch, so I watched it online instead. Checked with friends, who all also have Austin Time Warner HD, and all experienced the same problem.

Was this a local Time Warner thing here in Austin, or did others experience it?

Must have been a local issue.

I think that Desmond seeing Charlie in his flashback was an indicator (a subtle one that will have a reveal later) that the future and past could be altered. As the lady was telling Desmond he had a role to play and that he couldn't alter the future, Charlie was showing him that you can take an alternate path.

Charlie should have been in Driveshaft making millions and hooked on drugs but instead he was a street musician playing for tips and speaking against drug use.

As for him playing an Oasis song, (this is far out there), maybe Oasis got the contract that Driveshaft would have gotten (fighting/feuding brothers with drug use issues) so instead of playing his own songs, he's playing theirs.

Desmond wasn't dreaming. He's timeshifting and it's happening to him since the hatch implosion. Last night's story was about his first trip to the past. As he begins to learn where he is and how he has a chance to "do it right" the second time, he gets interfered with by the jewlery store lady. She is trying to convice Desmond that fate will always have it's way sooner or later. But fate doesn't need an advocate and her attempt to sway Desmond into believing he has no control is going to be exposed as bogus sooner or later. We also know that Desmond has time shifted to the future because he knows about saving Charlie twice now as well as Locke's speech.

Your thoughts regarding the purpose of the jewelry store lady's character reminded me of another character in the flashback - his friend (with presumably a science background) with whom he had the discussion at the bar regarding what he thought was happening. As best I can recall, we weren't shown what Des said, but his friend's reaction and speech saying that time travel wasn't possible inferred that Des believed he was time traveling.

My question is the underlying purpose of the friend character: was he a benign element, or did he know much more than he was admitting (ala the jewelry store lady), and his purpose was to dissuade Des from the time travel angle? Heck if I know! :)

I think that Desmond seeing Charlie in his flashback was an indicator (a subtle one that will have a reveal later) that the future and past could be altered. As the lady was telling Desmond he had a role to play and that he couldn't alter the future, Charlie was showing him that you can take an alternate path.

Charlie should have been in Driveshaft making millions and hooked on drugs but instead he was a street musician playing for tips and speaking against drug use.

As for him playing an Oasis song, (this is far out there), maybe Oasis got the contract that Driveshaft would have gotten (fighting/feuding brothers with drug use issues) so instead of playing his own songs, he's playing theirs.

Why do we think that Charlie wasn't more recently in Driveshaft than the flashback? Desmond spent three years punching in the numbers in the computer--Charlie's rise and fall could easily have happened within that time period. Who knows, Charlie could have "broken through" to megastardom the very next day...

(One thing, though--when Charlie was visiting his brother in Australia to talk him back into the band, am I remembering correctly that his brother had kids?--and what were their ages?)

Why do we think that Charlie wasn't more recently in Driveshaft than the flashback? Desmond spent three years punching in the numbers in the computer--Charlie's rise and fall could easily have happened within that time period. Who knows, Charlie could have "broken through" to megastardom the very next day...

(One thing, though--when Charlie was visiting his brother in Australia to talk him back into the band, am I remembering correctly that his brother had kids?--and what were their ages?)

That's the way I took it. Charlie was busking before he was in Driveshaft.

Various people have punched in the numbers every 108 minutes, apparently for years, to "save the world." But when it wasn't punched in and went into overload, metal objects flying everywhere, there was still a magic super deluxe failsafe button to blow the whole damn thing up and avert whatever horrible threat the overloaded machinery posed to the island and beyond.

Why not just blow the thing up years ago and be done with this silly number-punching nonsense?

I think that's just writers running out of original ideas, like in sit-coms you'll frequently see scenarios that played out in other sit-coms years ago.That is so true. Yet, with LOST, I think the story was well planned from the beginning. This time shift, time lost, lost time, time travel thing, whatever it is, was somewhat evident in season one. We just had not seen it from Desmonds point of view that far back. But, remember when Jack and Desmond met in the stadium? Desmond told Jack that he would fix the woman he was worrying about, as if he foreknew the outcome. And didn't Jack ask Desmond where are you from, and Desmond replyed something like; "from the future, brotha"? And when Kelvin and Sayid were parting in the war flashbacks, didn't Kelvin tell Sayid that he would need the skills he learn there in the future? As if he knew what Sayid's future was.

There may be other examples, but those two, from a ways back in the story, tell us that at least two of the people who pushed the button for a time, experience some sort of time warp phenomenon....Or not. :confused:

Various people have punched in the numbers every 108 minutes, apparently for years, to "save the world." But when it wasn't punched in and went into overload, metal objects flying everywhere, there was still a magic super deluxe failsafe button to blow the whole damn thing up and avert whatever horrible threat the overloaded machinery posed to the island and beyond.

Why not just blow the thing up years ago and be done with this silly number-punching nonsense?

The general opinion was the machine stopped something from blowing up by keeping it contained on the island and so "saving the world".

But what if the device wasn't built to contain something dangerous but to do something positive? When Inman introduced the device to Desmond all he flippantly said was that he was "saving the world."

The bunker device could have been part of something like a folding@home system. It was built to calculate or change the doomsday outcome predicted by the Valenzetti equation. So by entering the numbers it keeps the device running. Either while it's active it keeps the future disaster event from occurring, or it's ongoing purpose is to eventually calculate a way to prevent it.

Keep entering the numbers, and you keep the machine going. Stop the machine and it cannot be used to avoid the disaster.

Now they've blown part of it, does that mean they have destroyed the whole device or just reduced it's ability? Other bunkers could still be keeping the device running but with a limited capacity.

Something that I found amusing from a couple of episodes back. When Juliette was being recruited, she was told there was a position for her in Portland, then after ex-hubby was run over by a bus, they admitted that it was "not exactly Portland". What an understandment!

Watch Jack's face when he realizes Benry lied to both Juliette and himself. Neither of them are going home. :( :mad:

Haven't seen this "LOST" thread (about the time slot) mentioned. I just found it myself, so I presume others may not know about it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760351

I think the producers made plenty of mistakes to contribute to the ratings decline, but honestly I believe that a show like Lost is never going to make it much beyond 3-4 seasons before people start walking away in droves, in fact the erosion starts after season one is over. There's a core of us that love Lost and all it's aspects, and group that is much less committed.

I'm reminded of a Stephen King quote talking about how a great novel is like a great love affair, and a short story is like a brief fling. Well, Lost is like a great novel, and there is always a section of people looking for the one night stand. If it doesn't end neatly after one season, they wander off in search of a new thrill. Wait and see if Heroes doesn't start to erode in Season 2.

It's just the nature of the beast. If only there were some way to convince networks that the erosion will stop and eventually they'll have a solid core audience that will give them dependable ratings for long haul--if we know for a fact that the story will be allowed to play out.

I'm reminded of a Stephen King quote talking about how a great novel is like a great love affair, and a short story is like a brief fling. Well, Lost is like a great novel, and there is always a section of people looking for the one night stand. If it doesn't end neatly after one season, they wander off in search of a new thrill. Wait and see if Heroes doesn't start to erode in Season 2.


Yes, I have a friend like that. He was totally absorbed in everything Lost during its first season. Loved every episode. Then come the season finale not every one of his questions was answered, he was done with it. Never watched again. Declared it a "piece of sh--" show and a huge waste of his time. For some reason, he honestly expected everything to tie up in a neat little bow at the end of the first season. Now he makes fun of me for continuing to watch it: "They're in WHAT season and you still don't know why Locke was crippled?! How can you watch that crap? Worst Show Ever!!"

He's currently in love with Heroes and I see the same pattern forming.

I'm still a Lost fan. But if it goes on another couple years without any answers I could see myself drifting away. I really hope they do have some way of tying all this together.

- Tom

I'm confident they have the complete story in mind and a plan to tie it all together when the time comes. Thing is, when the questions start to be answered, with no new mysteries introduced, the end of the story will come quickly. LOST is like a long novel, slow to develope, but when you reach the end, it is done.

I'm a fan, also, and all caught up in the mystery and characters of the show. But, to be honest, I think I prefer the movie model where the story is told in a couple of hours. Or, maybe the mini series where the story is told in one season. LOST is different, though, and maybe that frustration is what keeps some of us hooked, and drives others away.

What I am beginning to realize is that Lost is actually starting to answer questions. I think that each piece that is given appears not to lead anywhere but it is my faith that looking back at each episode, each will fall into place and be apparent.

Take this last episode with Desmond. I think the final answer has something to do with the manipulation of time, so (if true) we have been fed an element of the answer already with Desmond. We still don't know the absolute reasons for everything, but we are given pieces and it is really up to us to piece it together. by the end, we should have enough pieces to know exactly what is happening on the island.

I still am one of those that will not miss an episode of Lost, and dissects it when I do watch it. The fun is the journey, not necessarily the destination. I have a feeling most people are going to be quite disappointed with the final reveal. (Hey, I learned from the X-files, which strung people along a lot worse than Lost is doing).

...
Take this last episode with Desmond. I think the final answer has something to do with the manipulation of time, so (if true) we have been fed an element of the answer already with Desmond. We still don't know the absolute reasons for everything, but we are given pieces and it is really up to us to piece it together. by the end, we should have enough pieces to know exactly what is happening on the island...

Even though Daybreak didn't make it as a series, it got me wondering if it was no accident that ABC put in a "filler" show that had the element of time travel in it.

Of course, that would have meant that ABC, the producers of Lost and Daybreak would have all worked together to coordinate a brilliant programming move.

*Nah* :D

The fun is the journey, not necessarily the destination.

Well put Steve. Same for me.

Well put Steve. Same for me.

+1 for me. I don't mind all the unanswered questions. My only issue is the questions haven't been as good lately.

Agree 100% - the current problem is lack of compelling questions raised, not lack of answers. If you look at 90% of the speculation early on, it was discussion of the possible answers for the questions raised.

I don't care about questions or answers. I just want something dramatic to happen beyond people being trapped in cages or just talking in a purposely evasive way just to sound mysterious.

Since the first season only Bernard has bothered to try and escape. Everyone else seems quite happy to sit on the beach and just do laundry.

What I am beginning to realize is that Lost is actually starting to answer questions. I think that each piece that is given appears not to lead anywhere but it is my faith that looking back at each episode, each will fall into place and be apparent.So what did I miss in the show (NOT any online games or anything) that explained what the numbers meant? It was such an integral part of many of the back stories and the main plot, but now has virtually disappeared from the the story line. If it WAS answered in an online game, do the writers expect the rest of us to just forget about that part of the story? I'm sure I've forgotten more than a few of the original questions - maybe they hope to bore us into forgetting more. There are also few characters left that I actually care about. I wonder who they'll kill next? It can't be Charlie - that would be too obvious. I'm still watching, but we'll see after this season.

don't know if this has been mentioned as there's hundreds of pages on here and I don;t read this until the Monday as we get the show on the Sunday after you guys.

I thought the people working on Lost were thorough with little details?
I also thought they were good with authenticity!

what was with the red phone boxes?
what was with the bobby on the beat?
what was with the weird sounding 1960's siren (that sounded like the Ghostbusters car!)?
what was with the really bad and obviously not authentic English accents?
what was with the people on the streets selling nuts or taking photos?

do Americans really think everyone here talks with a stupid 19th century cockney accent (don't get me started on The Simpsons!)? and think things haven't changed in 100 years (red phone boxes etc)?

and the main thing that bugged me, what was with the army poster and the huge spelling mistake of "Honor" - was that some sort of clue to anything?
the type was so big no one could miss it

Could be a clue, could be a red herring.
As to what Americans believe, we don't actually have a great big meeting and decide to all agree on anything. It's a big country, millions of people, millions of beliefs and levels of knowledge.
;)

don't know if this has been mentioned as there's hundreds of pages on here and I don;t read this until the Monday as we get the show on the Sunday after you guys.

I thought the people working on Lost were thorough with little details?
I also thought they were good with authenticity!

what was with the red phone boxes?
what was with the bobby on the beat?
what was with the weird sounding 1960's siren (that sounded like the Ghostbusters car!)?
what was with the really bad and obviously not authentic English accents?
what was with the people on the streets selling nuts or taking photos?

do Americans really think everyone here talks with a stupid 19th century cockney accent (don't get me started on The Simpsons!)? and think things haven't changed in 100 years (red phone boxes etc)?

and the main thing that bugged me, what was with the army poster and the huge spelling mistake of "Honor" - was that some sort of clue to anything?
the type was so big no one could miss it

Great, great points!!!! Makes me think whether Desmond isnt time shifting at all, but still part of a mind f*ck experiment...and the shot he was giving himself was part of that equation. That would be more plausible than time travel. It wouldnt be above the writers/ producers to throw the viewers a curve like that. It also wouldnt surprize me that Dez has been through some of the same stuff we saw Karl being subjected to.....

Also, did anyone give notice to Toms quick statement to Jack about why they never leave and Tom replies "some guy turned purple" and then was cut off? Didnt the sky turn purple when Des turned the key? Hhmmm....

Like that Austin Power's movie. Funny how the English Countryside looks nothing like Southern California. :D Or in this case, Hawaii.

When Desmond is talking to the jeweler, she tells him that he has to be on the island to bush the button to save the world. I know that he latter describes pushing the button in those terms when he talks to other losties. But.... shouldn't the jeweler say that he needed to be on the island to "turn the key" to save the world?

It makes me wonder what they are saving the world from? Would the world end from some huge electromagnetic explosion if he didn't turn the key? Or was pushing the button a necessay act to save the world from something else...like keeping an experiment alive involving the mysterious disease. (assuming there is a mysterious disease) Global plague seems like a more likely end of the world than a magnetic field that collapses into a big hole at the turn of a key. Makes you wonder why they didn't turn the key (or collapse the field) long ago.

When Desmond is talking to the jewler, she tells him that he has to be on the island to bush the button to save the world. I know that he latter describes pushing the button in those terms when he talks to other losties. But.... shouldn't the jewler say that he needed to be on the island to "turn the key" to save the world?


read one page back, I offered an explanation for this.

Also, did anyone give notice to Toms quick statement to Jack about why they never leave and Tom replies "some guy turned purple" and then was cut off? Didnt the sky turn purple when Des turned the key? Hhmmm....
....I just noticed Jack's epiphany. He realized Juliette isn't going home, because Blue-Beard started telling him why they're currently stuck (doing the surgery) on the island. Jack suddenly nipped an artery during Benry's open-back surgery, and didn't allow him to finish explaining.

Something to do with the numbers counting down, the hatch going nuclear, and "the sky turning purple." A reason that Juliette is appearently unaware of. So I'm wondering if Benry's gonna kill her? She's gonna at least share a cell with Jack for her treason.Benry promised freedom to them both. Doesn't appear it's gonna happen for either.

don't know if this has been mentioned as there's hundreds of pages on here and I don;t read this until the Monday as we get the show on the Sunday after you guys.

I thought the people working on Lost were thorough with little details?
I also thought they were good with authenticity!

what was with the red phone boxes?
what was with the bobby on the beat?
what was with the weird sounding 1960's siren (that sounded like the Ghostbusters car!)?
what was with the really bad and obviously not authentic English accents?
what was with the people on the streets selling nuts or taking photos?

do Americans really think everyone here talks with a stupid 19th century cockney accent (don't get me started on The Simpsons!)? and think things haven't changed in 100 years (red phone boxes etc)?

and the main thing that bugged me, what was with the army poster and the huge spelling mistake of "Honor" - was that some sort of clue to anything?
the type was so big no one could miss it

Which accents were really bad? Fionnula Flanagan (the jeweler) is from Ireland, but she was doing an English accent, so maybe you mean her. Dominic Monaghan was born in Germany, but on a British base to British parents. Desmond was mainly raised in Scotland. Penny is a Londoner. Now, Mr. Widmore is from New Zealand, but I notice he didn't seem to have much of an accent at all. Is that who you mean?

don't know if this has been mentioned as there's hundreds of pages on here and I don;t read this until the Monday as we get the show on the Sunday after you guys.

I thought the people working on Lost were thorough with little details?
I also thought they were good with authenticity!

what was with the red phone boxes?
what was with the bobby on the beat?
what was with the weird sounding 1960's siren (that sounded like the Ghostbusters car!)?
what was with the really bad and obviously not authentic English accents?
what was with the people on the streets selling nuts or taking photos?

do Americans really think everyone here talks with a stupid 19th century cockney accent (don't get me started on The Simpsons!)? and think things haven't changed in 100 years (red phone boxes etc)?

and the main thing that bugged me, what was with the army poster and the huge spelling mistake of "Honor" - was that some sort of clue to anything?
the type was so big no one could miss it

It may surprise you but Honolulu is not the film capital of the world - and they will only spend so much to bring things in (lets not forget everything comes to Hawaii via cargo container ship and then has to be sent back).

Considering my first thought is this episode wasn't filmed entirely in Hawaii, but thenI looked closer and realized I knew exactly where it was filmed downtown (hint - just around the corner from the best Chinese acupuncture guy I've ever found - and better yet he only charges $25 and considers it an insult to tip).

To answer your question - They found some English cars, and then threw in a few props - and it still looked like downtown Hawaii so they threw in every over the top thing they could find to scream England and not break any production budget - then walked away and said that will do.

To answer your question - They found some English cars, and then threw in a few props - and it still looked like downtown Hawaii so they threw in every over the top thing they could find to scream England and not break any production budget - then walked away and said that will do.

Heck, for under $1500 (including shipping), you too can have a red British phonebooth to put wherever your production may need it, which, by the way, are still all over the place on the sidewalks of Scotland:

http://www.designtoscano.com/jump.jsp?itemID=74&itemType=PRODUCT

Maybe Desmond was simply projecting his memories of home onto his stay in London...

Ok, so who thinks they know what the "3 big questions" that will be answered in tonight's episode are?

I'll take a stab:

1. Who has the lowest handicap at the Lost Country Club?
2. Will Dharma drop any new flavors of Salad Dressing?
3. How does Jin stay so clean shaven?

Ok, so who thinks they know what the "3 big questions" that will be answered in tonight's episode are?

I'll take a stab:

1. Who has the lowest handicap at the Lost Country Club?
2. Will Dharma drop any new flavors of Salad Dressing?
3. How does Jin stay so clean shaven?

This is why I don't watch THE STUPID PREVIEWS!

;)

Less expectations, less let-down...

As you can tell from my "guesses" I'm not expecting much either.

;)

This is why I don't watch THE STUPID PREVIEWS!

;)

Less expectations, less let-down...

Yeah, ruined it for me too Innova. Thanks a lot brotha! ;)

Another great episode...the score at the end was particularly well done...

so what were the 3 answers solved?

Jack's tats (but what about the other tat?)
Cindy and the Children
???

Also, is it absolutely truly necessary for them to spoil a new character in the previews not 10 seconds before the FREAKING SHOW? SERIOUSLY, this has got to stop...I'm at the point where I'm just going to DVR everything and never watch live TV ever again....

More questions posed:

Whats the brand mean?
Who is this new "sheriff"?
Where is home? (I assume they're talking about the place they showed in the Season Premiere, but where is that?)
What is Karl going to do?

Didn't they say we were going to learn 3 things tonight? I could be wrong, but I thought that was what the promo said.

So...waht i'm gathering what the 'big 3' questions were...

1. Do the others live on the 'new' island? No.
2. How does Jack like his sandwiches? Grilled, and with toothpicks.
3. Is it worth your life to save the girl you love? According to Sawyer and Carl, yes.

Other than that, the episode was good. Though, I'm gonna have to stop watching the previews for the show. It never answers what I want answered, lol.

Didn't they say we were going to learn 3 things tonight? I could be wrong, but I thought that was what the promo said.

They did but I didn't feel they answered any questions tonight.

Didn't they say we were going to learn 3 things tonight? I could be wrong, but I thought that was what the promo said.

It did; just seconds before the show started.

Another great episode...the score at the end was particularly well done...

so what were the 3 answers solved?

Jack's tats (but what about the other tat?)
Cindy and the Children
???

Also, is it absolutely truly necessary for them to spoil a new character in the previews not 10 seconds before the FREAKING SHOW? SERIOUSLY, this has got to stop...I'm at the point where I'm just going to DVR everything and never watch live TV ever again....

More questions posed:

Whats the brand mean?
Who is this new "sheriff"?
Where is home? (I assume they're talking about the place they showed in the Season Premiere, but where is that?)
What is Karl going to do?

OK, so it wasn't just me. I was trying to think of what 3 things were revealed.

1. Jack's tats means "He walks among us but he isn't one of us"
2. There's an "other" other place where the others hang out other than the other island (couldn't resist)
3. The kids are OK and Cindy and the others are "watching" Jack
4. There's a place on the main island where there are "backyards"
5. Ethan was a doctor (surgeon)
6. Jack didn't know how to fly a kite
7. Jack drinks too much coke
8. Jack is a leader and angry
9. Jack can't figure out how to get a fish biscuit
10. Some people don't know who the "Brady Bunch" are

"Bobby......You know the Brady Bunch?"

"Whats the Brady Bunch"

LOL great writing

Sweet episode. Lost has its ups and downs, but of all the shows I watch I'd be most disappointed if it was cancelled. Well maybe House or Lost...

BTW, did anyone have any break-ups/artifacting on tonight's episode? I was getting slight audio drop-outs too...quite annoying...

Comcast Digital in MoCo, MD

What did Sawyer say to Kate while they were rowing in the boat? "You got a map over there, Magellan?"

Sawyer's one-liners never disappoint.

i'm not sure i understand how the mystery behind jack's tattoos is solved now..

he goes to phuket, meets some chick on the beach, she has a "gift" (is anyone normal on this show?), and he forces her to ink him....chick says there will be consequences and everybody starts beating him up. At the end, the "sheriff" tells him the translation.

WHY??? and what does this mean??

Why do we think that Charlie wasn't more recently in Driveshaft than the flashback? Desmond spent three years punching in the numbers in the computer--Charlie's rise and fall could easily have happened within that time period. Who knows, Charlie could have "broken through" to megastardom the very next day...

(One thing, though--when Charlie was visiting his brother in Australia to talk him back into the band, am I remembering correctly that his brother had kids?--and what were their ages?)



Just a follow-up on the Desmond-Charlie meeting in last week's episode, the "ring lady" stated Desmond breaks Pen's heart and that is what drives him "in a few short years from now" to enter the race, which leads him to the island, where he spends the next three years pushing the button. So seeing Charlie on the street would be at least five years before the hatch implosion.

Also this week's episode was fairly disappointing for me. I really don't consider the meaning of Jack's tats to be one of the island's biggest mysteries.

I still enjoyed the episode though I felt the tattoo storyline was just tacked on to the main story kind of crudely. Those tattoos are Mathew Fox's real tattoos. I kept asking myself, when is this taking place?

As I said, I still enjoyed the episode, but I have a weird sense of unease, the feeling that if the episodes aren't great enough, the rest of the viewing audience will abandon the show and it will just get cancelled, no new season, no ending.

Even though it's not on par with season one, I could easily watch this show for a couple more years, I'm a patient man I guess. It's just the worrying about what other people think that is really dragging me down. Kinda makes me feel uneasy just to critique it now, like I should be trying to cheerlead the masses into liking it more. Anyone else feel like this?

What did Sawyer say to Kate while they were rowing in the boat? "You got a map over there, Magellan?"

Sawyer's one-liners never disappoint.wife loved that line! :D

I still enjoyed the episode though I felt the tattoo storyline was just tacked on to the main story kind of crudely. Those tattoos are Mathew Fox's real tattoos. I kept asking myself, when is this taking place?

As I said, I still enjoyed the episode, but I have a weird sense of unease, the feeling that if the episodes aren't great enough, the rest of the viewing audience will abandon the show and it will just get cancelled, no new season, no ending.

Even though it's not on par with season one, I could easily watch this show for a couple more years, I'm a patient man I guess. It's just the worrying about what other people think that is really dragging me down. Kinda makes me feel uneasy just to critique it now, like I should be trying to cheerlead the masses into liking it more. Anyone else feel like this?

the show makes far too much in DVD sales for them to cancel it with no real ending....that would be a huge kiss of death...I don't know if I'd ever watch ABC again if they Execs just pulled it without giving the show a closing...

Another good episode, like them all are !!

The magic phrase of the week: "He walks among us, but he is not one among us !!". That would seem to imply that Jack is one of "them others".

Now, are "them others" the Losties, or some "other others" that the Losties saw and shot at while trekking through the forest to reach the "Other side on the island" in season-2? Does anyone remember the Lostie who shot and killed one of the "other others" snooping on them from across the stream? Or would that person that got shot happen to be one of Denny's pals? Boy, there is a lot of shooting going around !! :p

I'd hate it if the Losties were being caged and watched just to show the kids "to be good" and to show what happens if they do wrong. :o And whatever the hell happened to Smoky the monster? Are we going to see it again, now that Ben and his chaps are returning to home base? Boy, that's a lot of questions.. :)

Another good episode, like them all are !!

The magic phrase of the week: "He walks among us, but he is not one among us !!". That would seem to imply that Jack is one of "them others".

Now, are "them others" the Losties, or some "other others" that the Losties saw and shot at while trekking through the forest to reach the "Other side on the island" in season-2? Does anyone remember the Lostie who shot and killed one of the "other others" snooping on them from across the stream? Or would that person that got shot happen to be one of Denny's pals? Boy, there is a lot of shooting going around !! :p

I'd hate it if the Losties were being caged and watched just to show the kids "to be good" and to show what happens if they do wrong. :o And whatever the hell happened to Smoky the monster? Are we going to see it again, now that Ben and his chaps are returning to home base? Boy, that's a lot of questions.. :)

It seems like there is only one faction of the others....considering they were hinting at the use of make-up, wigs and Dharma-brand Theatrical Glue, it appears they were just trying to trick the Flight 815 people into thinking they were something else. Also notice that one of the children has the teddy bear that we saw during Season 2 (when we first meet the Tallies).

Which reminds me, what did the little girl whisper to Cindy?

It seems like there is only one faction of the others....considering they were hinting at the use of make-up, wigs and Dharma-brand Theatrical Glue, it appears they were just trying to trick the Flight 815 people into thinking they were something else. Also notice that one of the children has the teddy bear that we saw during Season 2 (when we first meet the Tallies).

Which reminds me, what did the little girl whisper to Cindy?

Gotto watch that again !! ;)

.........Which reminds me, what did the little girl whisper to Cindy?She wanted Cindy to ask Jack, how Anna Lucia was doing.

Most of LOST has revolved around Jack and, yet, that whole character was actually scripted to die by episode 8 of last season. Funny how things evolve. I wonder where we'd be today if Jack actually WAS killed off as planned?

That was awesome.

All the excitement of watching someone in a cage. Again. I really can't get enough of the drama of one person sitting in a cage while someone occasionally walks up to them to say something oblique. They should really do the rest of the season like that. Since we are almost half way through, they may as well.

Ethan was their best surgeon?

That shows one of two things. How stupid the writers are or how stupid the Others are. Either the writers put it in without thinking purely for "ironic" effect (you see what they did, Charlie killed the only surgeon they had - hilariously clever) or the Others have no clue what they are doing despite appearances.

Henry: "Ethan, we've got a mission for you"
Ethan: "What's that sir?"
Henry: "We want you to secretly infiltrate an enemy camp for a few weeks, then kidnap one of them. You know, mingle, act like one of the passengers, evaluate strategic weaknesses. That sort of thing."
Ethan: "Oh, I thought it was going to be medical related. Er, what if someone gets injured here while I'm acting like a spy? Wouldn't one of the other less important team members be better for it?"
Henry: "Hmm. You might have a point there."
Ethan: "Yeah ...I mean if I got killed, who could take my place?"
Henry: "No, it's fine. You should go. I'm sure Juliet could perform some major surgery in a pinch. She can deliver babies so it's kind of the same thing. Besides, all our combat experts have to stand around watching people dig rocks so they obviously can't go."
Ethan: "Dammit, that is so true."

The most exciting thing in this episode was Bai Ling's shirt in the first 10 minutes.

I have to say I was disappointed in the show tonight. I don't think they answered 3 big questions as advertised. Lots of generalizations and vague answers to questions such as Cindy saying we are "watching" and it's "complicated". Jack gets all po'd instead of asking watching for what and why. Karl says they are working on projects on the little island but Kate and Sawyer never follow up with wanting more specifics. I was hoping for so much more and out of the blue we get Isabell. We get a bunch of Thai guys upset about Jack getting tattooed but no concern about the girl sleeping with Jack whenever she wanted it. None of this is sufficiently explained but rather leads to many more questions left to be unanswered.

Most of LOST has revolved around Jack and, yet, that whole character was actually scripted to die by episode 8 of last season. Funny how things evolve. I wonder where we'd be today if Jack actually WAS killed off as planned?

Jack's character was supposed to die at the end of the pilot in a bait and switch tactic.

and just to get some more theories going about this episode, that's if you can recover from the exciting mystery of Jack's tattoos ...

what was the purpose of the brand on Juliet? The location is pointless for public humiliation and the shape too intricate to be easily recognizable, so ...

the Others have something implanted at the base of the spine. The implement that leaves the mark on Juliet nullifies the effect of whatever that device does - that's her punishment.

Maybe all of them have it to protect them from the attention of the security system or some other island born danger.

maybe Juliet had it to cure her of a particular disease etc. etc.

Remember when The Others were demon-like creatures that were more swift and more powerful and more attuned to the jungle than the Lostaways? Remember when they were almost like zombies? Remember when The Others were otherworldly and mysterious and supernatural?

Yeah, those were good times.

I don't know this show as well as other posters here, but, I get the impression that the writers of lost may be comparable to a "one hit wonder" in music.

So, where exactly were these 3 big mystery reveals like they promised us in last weeks preview? I liked this episode, but it answered absolutely nothing of importance. Who cares where the Others live? Who gives a crap about Jack's tattoo?

Instead they answered nothing like promised and instead threw more curves at us. What the hell were those people supposed to be watching? Who the hell is this new woman? What the hell does this mark mean?

The writers have no one to blame but themselves for their declining ratings at this point.

Remember when The Others were demon-like creatures that were more swift and more powerful and more attuned to the jungle than the Lostaways? Remember when they were almost like zombies? Remember when The Others were otherworldly and mysterious and supernatural?

Yeah, those were good times.

Remember when they spoke in whispered voices that echoed through the jungle ... ?

No, because it was so long ago and hasn't been mentioned since the beginning of season 2.

I don't know this show as well as other posters here, but, I get the impression that the writers of lost may be comparable to a "one hit wonder" in music.

It's J. J. Abrams and his one season wonders that's partially to blame.

Define and execute a great idea, then bail on it after one season to move on to something else. Without his further control and ideas it all falls apart soon after.

They answered where were the kids. If you remember the tailies episode that showed the kids walking by and one holding a teddy bear. When Jack had his group audience, one of the kids passed that teddy bear to another child.

Remember when The Others were demon-like creatures that were more swift and more powerful and more attuned to the jungle than the Lostaways? Remember when they were almost like zombies? Remember when The Others were otherworldly and mysterious and supernatural?

Yeah, those were good times.

My thoughts exactly. I'm still watching the show but I remember during season 1 when I couldn't wait for a new episode. Tonight the show had been recording for 45 minutes before I even remembered it was on. Say what you will about the writers not answering questions, it's actually the answers they have provided (i.e. who are "The Others"?) that have made the show less interesting.

So, where exactly were these 3 big mystery reveals like they promised us in last weeks preview?

.......

The writers have no one to blame but themselves for their declining ratings at this point.

I concur with those 2 points.

I sure didn't have a big mystery about what Jack's Tattoo said - and knowing the kids were there was supposed to solve a mystery? DUH, I thought the Polar Bear ate them.....give me a break.

ABC was right.....American Idol would have killed this even more so in the ratings this year - and I am far from an American Idol fan.

Which reminds me, what did the little girl whisper to Cindy?


She asked how Ana Lucia was..and Jack had a hissy fit.

She asked how Ana Lucia was..and Jack had a hissy fit.

so why didn't she just ask him like any excited kid would?

They answered where were the kids. If you remember the tailies episode that showed the kids walking by and one holding a teddy bear. When Jack had his group audience, one of the kids passed that teddy bear to another child.

They answered 'where were the kids' on a very basic level. They're right here watching Jack and acting kind of strange, considering the circumstances. Is that any different than them walking through the jungle while we see the teddy bear? We saw them, but we really learned nothing about them.

I also concur with the poster that was frustrated by Jack's reaction to their visit. Why not maintain some calm and ask them the questions that Jack would want answered? Really pretty lazy writing in that scene, just having him overreact and then having them walk away.

I don't think we got any real answers. The tatoo story was similar to most of the flashbacks. It was somewhat interesting, but not terribly revealing.

The most exciting thing in this episode was Bai Ling's shirt in the first 10 minutes.

She was SMOKING hot in this ep...too bad we probably won't see her again :-( She probably died when Phuket got nuked by the tsunami....

They answered where were the kids. If you remember the tailies episode that showed the kids walking by and one holding a teddy bear. When Jack had his group audience, one of the kids passed that teddy bear to another child.

OK, so wtf were the kids doing dragging their asses through the jungle in rags anyway? Very weird.

The producers, in their weekly podcast, actually took issue with ABC's promotions department promising three answers. To them, the only big answer was the circumstances surrounding and meaning of Jack's tattoos. As for that not being a "big" answer (and its not to me) they have long claimed that is one of the questions they have been asked the most via email, etc.

I thought it was a fairly useless episode, since I never gave a moment's thought to Jack's tattoos. Without interest in that, the flashback becomes absolutely useless.

I guess we also learned that the Others live on the same island as the Losties (as per Carl) but we kind of knew that from Ben telling Sawyer.

I cannot imagine what else we learned, although I guess you could count learning that these others did in fact take Cindy (which we had assumed).

so why didn't she just ask him like any excited kid would?

She didn't know Jack (she was a Tailie), and Jack is an ornery bastard (and then some). I thought Jack would be extra cruel and tell them what happened to Ana, but he held back.

...Boy, that's a lot of questions.. :)

Tune in NEXT week, folks! :)

BTW, did anyone have any break-ups/artifacting on tonight's episode? I was getting slight audio drop-outs too...quite annoying...

Comcast Digital in MoCo, MDYeah, I had some audio drop outs. Watching OTA.

What the hell were those people supposed to be watching?
They were brought there to watch the mock trial and sentencing of Juliette.

They answered where were the kids. If you remember the tailies episode that showed the kids walking by and one holding a teddy bear. When Jack had his group audience, one of the kids passed that teddy bear to another child.

It showed them at the current time in the episode, but there were no answers as to where they were, what they were doing or why, etc.

This show is out of control. Bringing in more characters all the time. Constantly raising questions in the viewers mind without any concrete answers provided. I now believe the whole plot is a house cards waiting for the ratings to blow and cancellation to be a cop-out for providing any real answers. Sure, I will probably keep watching anyway; just will not expect any kind of conclusion.

what was the purpose of the brand on Juliet? The location is pointless for public humiliation and the shape too intricate to be easily recognizable, so ...

I thought it looked like a Hydra...but couldn't be sure.

..I guess we also learned that the Others live on the same island as the Losties (as per Carl) but we kind of knew that from Ben telling Sawyer...


...which made me go,"WHAT?". If, as Carl said, they live on the Lost island, but work on the small island, why the heck was Juliette hosting a book club on the small island when they should have been working.

Wait, that's the answer to a mystery: they work for the government!

She was SMOKING hot in this ep...too bad we probably won't see her again :-( She probably died when Phuket got nuked by the tsunami....

You'll see her in 2 future episodes

...which made me go,"WHAT?". If, as Carl said, they live on the Lost island, but work on the small island, why the heck was Juliette hosting a book club on the small island when they should have been working.

Wait, that's the answer to a mystery: they work for the government!

they obviously weren't on the small island at the very beginning of Season 3 (the flashback to the actual crash)

I'm trying to remember where I saw Cindy last. Was she the tailie who was kidnapped while the Tailies were escourting Sawyer and Jin back to the 815 camp ?

...which made me go,"WHAT?". If, as Carl said, they live on the Lost island, but work on the small island, why the heck was Juliette hosting a book club on the small island when they should have been working.

Wait, that's the answer to a mystery: they work for the government!I've always thought that the book club was meeting in the others compound (home) on the big (Lost) island. Someone, maybe Juliette, commented in the most recent ep, that they (the others) were ready to go home (to the big island) and they don't really like coming to the small island for extended periods of time.

They answered 'where were the kids' on a very basic level. They're right here watching Jack and acting kind of strange, considering the circumstances. Is that any different than them walking through the jungle while we see the teddy bear? We saw them, but we really learned nothing about them.

I also concur with the poster that was frustrated by Jack's reaction to their visit. Why not maintain some calm and ask them the questions that Jack would want answered? Really pretty lazy writing in that scene, just having him overreact and then having them walk away.

I don't think we got any real answers. The tatoo story was similar to most of the flashbacks. It was somewhat interesting, but not terribly revealing.

On the other hand, Kate asked some very good ones.

I'm trying to remember where I saw Cindy last. Was she the tailie who was kidnapped while the Tailies were escourting Sawyer and Jin back to the 815 camp ?Yes, I recall that she was kidnapped while traversing a stream. She was last to descend an embankment and disappeared.

Jack recalled her as a 815 flight attendant and never met her on the island(s) until now.

All the excitement of watching someone in a cage. Again. I really can't get enough of the drama of one person sitting in a cage while someone occasionally walks up to them to say something oblique.

You must not be a fan of shows like Oz or Prison Break (first season) either then, right?

...which made me go,"WHAT?". If, as Carl said, they live on the Lost island, but work on the small island, why the heck was Juliette hosting a book club on the small island when they should have been working.

Wait, that's the answer to a mystery: they work for the government!

HAH! :D

I'm just disappointed Jack didn't get himself a fish biscuit.

If they want to give us big answers - here's what I would like to know:

1.Why is important to for Claire to be the one to raise her baby?
2.What the heck is the black smoke?
3.What is the significance of the numbers?
4.Why isn't Locke paralyzed when he is on the island?
5.Did Michael and Walt make it home?
6.Why was the babe (sorry I already forgot her name) that was shot by Michael last season at Hurley's mental institution?
7.Is Ben really Alex's father?
8.Is Hanso or Dharma still analysing the island?
etc.. I'm sure you guys can come up with a better list and may already have answers to some of these questions. I know there are a lot more but the show keeps introducing new characters and questions all the time. I still am a very big fan of the show. Will still watch it to the the end, but am getting increasingly frustrated but the expanding mysteries and lack of answers. I don't think they need to answer all of them, otherwise, why watch. But I think it would be good to tie up some of the older questions that the diehards still want answered. I think they can do that without spoiling the storyline. Just my $.02.

Why were Cindy and the kids suddenly clean and the Teddy Bear looking good as new? Last time we saw them they were barefoot, filthy in rags, teddy bear ragged and did not make a sound as they walked through the jungle.

Why have the others suddenly become more human and not these superpower human beings that can throw you 50 feet in a simple toss?

What was that big cruiser-type boat in the background when Benry's stretcher is being loaded into the small boat at the beach on the small island? Where is Rousseau; what is she doing and why has she lived on the island 16 years with no contact, other than hearing whispers, with the others?

they obviously weren't on the small island at the very beginning of Season 3 (the flashback to the actual crash)

I could have sworn that when the camera pulled back after they all ran out of their houses that we could see the plane breaking up over the larger island.

Didn't Ben then say to Ethan and whatshisface that they should get over there quickly and inflitrate the groups and provide lists within a few days?

...
Why have the others suddenly become more human and not these superpower human beings that can throw you 50 feet in a simple toss?..

They are only now learning how to use their 4400 powers, um, er, no...see, it is only when they are around kryptonite that they....no, wait, that isn't it... it's like when Peter Petrelli is around that they can....um, no....see, they are like these mutant metahumans who....um...oh, hell, I don't know. :eek:

The whole tattoo backstory was pretty much a waste. So we find out Jack "walks among us but is not one of us." Wow, amazing, he's with the "others" but he's not "one of" the others. What a revelation! And the girl's "gift" was nothing more special than a psychic. "You are a leader, but that makes you lonely and angry." That's not much of a special gift. Unless, as someone hinted, that gift turns out to mean more than what we think in future episodes.

I think the most important thing revealed is that the others live in suburban tract homes on the main island. Which mean's the island really HAS to be closer to civilization than we are led to believe. It also shows that, before the plane crashed on that island, the "others" were just basically living there, they weren't conducting experiments or doing any of this research stuff until the Losties arrived. Maybe they had been put there in anticipation of the plane crashing, it was all planned out. Because at the beginning of season 3 (or 2?) when they show all the others doing the book club and then hear the plane going overhead, Ben seems very meticulous and calm, telling people to organize search parties, etc, instead of saying "holy crap, a plane is crashing!", as if they were waiting for the plane to arrive.

I also only heard one person comment on the fact that, FINALLY, SOMEONE asked some good questions (thank you Kate!). Some where, what, why questions that we have all been annoyed about. And yes, next week, no cage story, thank god. If you're going to focus one whole episode around basically one person, Jack, it needs to focus on something reallllly interesting and important to the story. I dont think Jack's tattoos are going to turn out to mean that he is actually a prince, that his mother was a queen, his father was a king, and if he hurries, there could be a princess in his future. And also, there's a can of liquid Schwartz in the glove compartment.

I was so bored with the backstory in Phuket that I spent more time watching the background of the scenes, looking to spot a randomly-inserted Lostie (hurley on TV, etc). Then I heard she had a gift, and I was SOO hoping that they'd hint she is either connected with Dharma or had some really insightful, foretelling information for him or about him. But now, she was a hooker tattoo artist who was paid very well by unknown people and had a mean brother.

Not even near Phuket. On the beach in the background was Rabbit Island near Makapuu in Oahu.

Paul

So is Jack being played again?

They trying to make him believe Juliet is being held against her will (she is) or make Jack think that to use her to win his confidence?

I could have sworn that when the camera pulled back after they all ran out of their houses that we could see the plane breaking up over the larger island.
We saw "Othersvillie" hidden in a valley on the main island, apparently just north of where the tail section crashed. The front section continued over the main island and crashed on the southern coast if I have my directions right. I think the mini-island is somewhere north of the main island so it would have been behind us in the huge aerial CGI shot of the main island.

If they want to give us big answers - here's what I would like to know:

3.What is the significance of the numbers?


the numbers are factors of the Valenzetti equation, which predicts when mankind will be destroyed.

You must not be a fan of shows like Oz or Prison Break (first season) either then, right?

OZ was one of the best dramas on television. They did more with the cast in isolation than the Lost writer's have managed to do in 8 episodes. When you use the environment to your benefit it's amazing the amount of actual drama you can create.

Something the Lost writer's haven't even attempted this season. For them it just saves them the effort of moving the camera.

the numbers are factors of the Valenzetti equation, which predicts when mankind will be destroyed.

Total spoiler dude from the LOST online experience and not mentionable here...

Total spoiler dude from the LOST online experience and not mentionable here...

It was revealed 8 months ago and featured in the press, and he asked the question. He got the answer. Will it ever be revealed in the show? Who knows, they could have done it months ago to stop the ratings slide.

If you want, you can believe that it's still a made up theory by the writers because at this point I don't think it matters.

We saw "Othersvillie" hidden in a valley on the main island, apparently just north of where the tail section crashed. The front section continued over the main island and crashed on the southern coast if I have my directions right. I think the mini-island is somewhere north of the main island so it would have been behind us in the huge aerial CGI shot of the main island.


So this is part of the same Lost island, not the smaller one?

http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1004222441qb6.jpg


I guess what has be confused is that when Henry said "They are coming home with us" at the end of last season, I thought he mean they were taking them to the other island.

It was revealed 8 months ago and featured in the press, and he asked the question. He got the answer. Will it ever be revealed in the show? Who knows, they could have done it months ago to stop the ratings slide.

If you want, you can believe that it's still a made up theory by the writers because at this point I don't think it matters.

I could care less, having heard the news as well, but there are plenty of people who have no idea and perhaps didn't want to hear that.

Remember when Sayid, Jin & Sun took the boat to rescue Jack from the others? They saw remnants of a statue with a huge foot with only 4 toes, I want to know about that.

article w/ picture of foot (http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/05/25/lost-live-together-die-alone-finale/)

So this is part of the same Lost island, not the smaller one?
I think so. I don't see any water separating Othersville from the crash sites.

I guess what has be confused is that when Henry said "They are coming home with us" at the end of last season, I thought he mean they were taking them to the other island.
He may have meant they were going to be part of the Othersville utopia as soon as their brains had been properly fried like what apparently has happened to Cindy.

Not even near Phuket. On the beach in the background was Rabbit Island near Makapuu in Oahu.

Paul

I noticed that, too, and found it kind of distracting. They should have digitally removed it to make the location less recognizable.

I could have sworn that when the camera pulled back after they all ran out of their houses that we could see the plane breaking up over the larger island.

Didn't Ben then say to Ethan and whatshisface that they should get over there quickly and inflitrate the groups and provide lists within a few days?

no...it wasn't shown that there were two islands until the Sawyer-centric episode this season...also, when Jack went into the room that Juliet and Tom were sitting in (with the other woman at the desk) she says, "As you are probably already aware, we don't live on this island and we don't like coming here"

So obviously they live on the other island (unless there are 2+ islands ;))

Remember when Sayid, Jin & Sun took the boat to rescue Jack from the others? They saw remnants of a statue with a huge foot with only 4 toes, I want to know about that.

article w/ picture of foot (http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/05/25/lost-live-together-die-alone-finale/)

The creators said it would definitely be revealed (what it is, etc.) but it would be WAY later, like in other seasons.

"the numbers are factors of the Valenzetti equation, which predicts when mankind will be destroyed. "


And they won Hurley the lottery by coincidence and happened to be on the hatch?!?!!?!?!

Balderdash!

I could have sworn that when the camera pulled back after they all ran out of their houses that we could see the plane breaking up over the larger island.

Didn't Ben then say to Ethan and whatshisface that they should get over there quickly and inflitrate the groups and provide lists within a few days?

It was the oceanic flight that flew over their yards on its way to crashing....I am sure of it.

What happened to the "infection" that the others carried according to Rousseau?

"the numbers are factors of the Valenzetti equation, which predicts when mankind will be destroyed. "

And they won Hurley the lottery by coincidence and happened to be on the hatch?!?!!?!?!

Balderdash!

and on the top of police cars, medicine bottles, sports shirts amongst other things ... it all makes perfect sense now doesn't it! :rolleyes:

Who said this was all made up as we go?

When the first and second season ended...this is what I thought was going on in Lost.

That Oceanic flight landed on what is really Purgatory. And The Others are God (Henry) and his angels. They "kidnapped" (rescued) the people that were good in life (children etc) and the rest (Losties) were left in Purgatory to decide their fate. If you look at all the back stories, all the Losties have done some kind of sin (stealing, murder etc) that would send them to hell. The Losties are being watched by The Others to see if they can earn redemption. It would explain the supernatural power the Others have.

Anyone else think this makes sense?

When the first and second season ended...this is what I thought was going on in Lost.

That Oceanic flight landed on what is really Purgatory. And The Others are God (Henry) and his angels. They "kidnapped" (rescued) the people that were good in life (children etc) and the rest (Losties) were left in Purgatory to decide their fate. If you look at all the back stories, all the Losties have done some kind of sin (stealing, murder etc) that would send them to hell. The Losties are being watched by The Others to see if they can earn redemption. It would explain the supernatural power the Others have.

Anyone else think this makes sense?
You're way behind. That theory was put up - and disputed during the first season.

What was that big cruiser-type boat in the background when Benry's stretcher is being loaded into the small boat at the beach on the small island?
That's the boat they took back to the main island. They took a smaller dingy out to it.

Yep, the purgatory angle has been so clearly denied by the producers they even mocked it themselves in the spoof final episode they showed at CES this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk3OnJ62GMc

Click away, it doesn't contain any spoilers.

Yep, the purgatory angle has been so clearly denied by the producers they even mocked it themselves in the spoof final episode they showed at CES this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk3OnJ62GMc

Click away, it doesn't contain any spoilers.
IF the cat was out of the bag that early I would deny it too. Its a good theory, I dont think its right but it is a good theory.

My guess is that the giant foot and the slave ship indicate that whatever the heck is going on there has been going on for a long long time.

and just to get some more theories going about this episode, that's if you can recover from the exciting mystery of Jack's tattoos ...

what was the purpose of the brand on Juliet? The location is pointless for public humiliation and the shape too intricate to be easily recognizable, so ...

the Others have something implanted at the base of the spine. The implement that leaves the mark on Juliet nullifies the effect of whatever that device does - that's her punishment.

Maybe all of them have it to protect them from the attention of the security system or some other island born danger.

maybe Juliet had it to cure her of a particular disease etc. etc.

You mean the same markers used in The X-Files and Heroes??? Oh but those were at the base of the skull, or near the shoulder!

The mark seems to match the object on the court room podium. Perhaps some sort of scorpion?

The mark seems to match the object on the court room podium. Perhaps some sort of scorpion?


That was the Hydra...symbol for one of the project/hatches.

You mean the same markers used in The X-Files and Heroes??? Oh but those were at the base of the skull, or near the shoulder!


It doesn't matter where the device is. In this case they have something implanted under the skin at the base of the spine, and the branding tool destroys whatever function it does. For all we know it could be a small neural implant that allows control to Dharma mechanisms or locations.

If one of the worst punishments they have after execution is simply branding a cool hydra logo on your skin, that's pretty weak. Especially if you can't see it when you have a shirt on. The only other explanation is that it has now marked Juliet as a slave, but like I said they should have stuck it on her head or somewhere slightly more obvious. I wouldn't be surprised if it was originally used just to mark the animals who were kept at that station.

If one of the worst punishments they have after execution is simply branding a cool hydra logo on your skin, that's pretty weak. Especially if you can't see it when you have a shirt on.
Yeah, a tiny little burn? I know people who've gone through more pain and money to get really ugly tattoos. Since there was a tattoo theme (and oddly I was watching the Japanese yakuza movie Tattooed Life (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0059320/) ) I thought they were going to give her a degrading tattoo like "Ben's Bitch".

I thought they were going to give her a degrading tattoo like "Ben's Bitch".

Or worse, "Everyone's Bitch".

Yeah, a tiny little burn? I know people who've gone through more pain and money to get really ugly tattoos. Since there was a tattoo theme (and oddly I was watching the Japanese yakuza movie Tattooed Life (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0059320/) ) I thought they were going to give her a degrading tattoo like "Ben's Bitch".

I think the branding has more gravity than being just an ugly deformation on your perfect skin. I am thinking that the placement of the brand at the bottom of the spine has a meaning and consequence, the bottom of the spine being the location of one of the chakras or loci of life-force in a human being.

There is a complicated philosophy related to chakras in Yoga (I don't fully understand it), but branding a person at the base of the spine might somehow impact the metaphysical characteristic of that person. Maybe that branding might deny the person access to some sort of "heaven" or "utopia" - which could be considered to be a worse punishment than death - depending on how you look at the concept. So, they let Juliette live, but branded her to "eternal damnation" because she killed one of "them". Maybe the branded ones get stopped at the Pearly Gates. :o

The same could be said of Jack's tattoos. He might not have yet fulfilled the requirements to be one of "them", so he is being classified as such. "He walks among us, but he is not one of us..". I wonder if Jack's Thai girlfriend "marked" him just like Juliette somewhere else on his body, and the tattoos are not just the only markings he got that night.

Also, it appeared that his girlfriend made her brother beat up Jack to force him to leave the island - for Jack's good - because she somehow "marked" him even though he was an "outsider" and not one of "them". Her crying while Jack was being kicked indicates that she had to do this to force Jack to leave the island, as otherwise he might have been harmed in some way.

I think the importance of branding will become apparent in the future episodes. But I guess a lot of people will get impatient and drop off the boat before then. I am in this to the very end.

Interesting comments raaj.

If there is any internal logic to this show, the tattoos have a significance for the Others. Why else would we devote one whole flashback to them, bracketed by two scenes with the sheriff commenting on them?

If there is any internal logic to this show, the tattoos have a significance for the Others. Why else would we devote one whole flashback to them, bracketed by two scenes with the sheriff commenting on them?

well since the tattoos are real, and mean something completely different to how the show explained it, I don't think they are part of the great plan. More evidence of them just making up all the story points between the beginning and end and trying to find things to talk about in flashbacks.

Interesting comments raaj.

If there is any internal logic to this show, the tattoos have a significance for the Others. Why else would we devote one whole flashback to them, bracketed by two scenes with the sheriff commenting on them?

....ah, another clue to this being Fantasy Island. Mr Roarke was always yelling, "Tatoo!"

(sorry :D )

Speaking of internal logic, I know the producers shoot down the Purgatory theory, but the biblical references keep piling up. The boat kid mentioned something about a "Jacob", one of the other Losties did in an earlier episode as well. "Stranger in a strange land" is a quote from Exodus.

"Stranger in a strange land" is a quote from Exodus.

and a reference to a Heinlein novel about a human raised by Martians. You can pick which reference you want to go with.

Clues, allegories or just misdirections? Lost is full of them.

The kid also mentioned "an eye for an eye".

I am a Lost-critic hold out, in that I have been an apologist for a while, but last night's episode was really weak. I agree about the bad questions. How is it that Jack has been there that long, and not once has he asked or gleaned any information about why the Others are there.

I second the notion that I liked the Others when they were mysterious, strong, stealthy, and just generally badass. Now, they are portrayed as being weak cultists. Big frickin' deal. Remember when Eko (EKO!) crouched down in the bushes because he was actually scared of the Others? Remember when the someone tried to shoot at Mr. Friendly and the shot ricocheted all over the place as if they were behind a forcefield? Remember when Ethan came and went as he pleased, rising up out of the ocean to kill Steve (or was it Scott?) on the beach? The others just aren't compelling anymore. Jack in a cage not learning anything just isn't compelling. I don't care about his tattoos.

My feeling is that the show is really just about nothing. They don't have an answer, but hint at different answers, and then when people theorize about it, they just turn around and change all the rules so that the theory can no longer fit anymore.

and a reference to a Heinlein novel about a human raised by Martians. You can pick which reference you want to go with.

Clues, allegories or just misdirections? Lost is full of them.

That is the fun thing that sets Lost apart from typical CSI-type "wrap it all up in an episode.. or season" shows. It is seldom WYSIWYG.. Some consider it intelligent writing, some consider it lame story-telling skills on part of the writers.

People want answers, but when answers are given, they are either not exciting or mystical or important enough. Part of the fun about this show is the viewers making their own conclusions from what was shown. You cannot give one answer and hope to satisfy everyone.

The more I think about it, the more I hate last night's episode. I can't honestly think of three things they answered, unless you count things like "why did they kidnap the kids? / because we wanted to" as a question answered. It's not the producers' fault that the marketing guys blatantly lied about answering three questions, but even without that little snafu, it was a pretty damn mediocre episode.

How much sense does it make that Ethan was their surgeon? Why would they send their surgeon off on an undercover murder mission? Was there no one else in the group that could take that job on so that he could keep on doctorin' for 'em?

Why does the mysterious hooker/tattoo artist in Thailand use Chinese characters? Who even cares anyway? Although I think I will start calling Jack FALM - Frightened Angry Leader Man. Maybe later other characters could get labels so we would identify their characteristics more easily. Charlie could be HARP - Heroin Addict (Reformed) [Possibly], Sayid could be OALM - Other Angry Leader Man. Locke could be FCWWN - Former Cripple Who Walks Now. That way we won't keep asking who's who.

The last scene with Alex and the boat kid - I think maybe they were implying that they were star-crossed lovers, but I could be wrong.

It's not the producers' fault that the marketing guys blatantly lied about answering three questions, but even without that little snafu, it was a pretty damn mediocre episode.


This was mentioned earlier, about how the producers we're a bit upset with ABC about the "answers" promo, it would seem to me that ABC is getting a little anxious about the slipping ratings for Lost and is resorting to some "stretching of the truth" in their promos to boost ratings, knowing that many, many viewers have been screaming for some answers.

Previews for next week really screamed 'answers, answers'. Fact is, it looks like next week is one of those 'take a breather' weeks, hurley finding a old car or van on the Island? Ten bucks says the rescue party just starts to form at the end of the episode, leaving us with the week after before they even begin a rescue attempt.

How much sense does it make that Ethan was their surgeon? Why would they send their surgeon off on an undercover murder mission? Was there no one else in the group that could take that job on so that he could keep on doctorin' for 'em?
Probably because all he had been doing since he got there was fixing clogged sinks. It's not like people were having surgery every week there.

Hell, why did Ben Almighty himself head into the Lostie''s camp?

I'm beginning to think the real raison d'etre for the whole series is just to have those tawangy moments when something strange happens. Not why it happens, not what happens after it happens, but just that moment itself.

Like, tawang, the lady in the antique shop knows Desmond's name. Tawang, Eko's brother's plane from Africa is on the island. Tawang, the same numbers show up in different places.

That's it. There are no answers. The show exists just to get from one tawangy moment to the next.

I thought last week's "Desmondo" (as Hurley would say) ep was great. Rewatched it again last night before the new ep and liked it even better the second time around. The new ep though? With a guide description telling me we were going to see more of Jack in captivity my expectations started out low which turned out to be a good thing ;). The whole Jack tattoo story arc seemed flat and superfluous to me. Guess I was not one of those with any burning questions about it's origin. The rest of the ep while not necessarily bad, kind of seemed mostly like housekeeping filler to move things along a bit and set up what's coming next. Let's hope whatever that is turns out to be good.


ron

How much sense does it make that Ethan was their surgeon? Why would they send their surgeon off on an undercover murder mission? Was there no one else in the group that could take that job on so that he could keep on doctorin' for 'em?
.

it makes no sense. See my other post for how stupid Ben's comment was.

How is it that Jack has been there that long, and not once has he asked or gleaned any information about why the Others are there.

Remember that in Lost time each episode only advances one day forward. Although to us viewers it sometimes feels like Jack's been captive for 5 months now, he's actually only been there for a little over a week his time. Why hasn't he asked questions or gleaned info? Well, the Others aren't exactly forthcoming with the information so what's the point of asking? He knows they're just going to lie or feed him some convoluted riddle that doesn't mean anything.

That's the reason Jack barked out at the stewardess and children when he saw them, instead of asking them for help. It was obvious that they were now part of the Others, through brainwashing or whatever other reason, and it would be futile to ask them for anything. He's fed up and pissed off at all the games they're making him play.

Previews for next week really screamed 'answers, answers'.That's one recurring promise I've come to ignore. ;)

it makes no sense. See my other post for how stupid Ben's comment was.
Henry: "Ethan, we've got a mission for you"
Ethan: "What's that sir?"
Henry: "We want you to secretly infiltrate an enemy camp for a few weeks, then kidnap one of them. You know, mingle, act like one of the passengers, evaluate strategic weaknesses. That sort of thing."
Ethan: "Oh, I thought it was going to be medical related. Er, what if someone gets injured here while I'm acting like a spy? Wouldn't one of the other less important team members be better for it?"
Henry: "Hmm. You might have a point there."
Ethan: "Yeah ...I mean if I got killed, who could take my place?"
Henry: "No, it's fine. You should go. I'm sure Juliet could perform some major surgery in a pinch. She can deliver babies so it's kind of the same thing. Besides, all our combat experts have to stand around watching people dig rocks so they obviously can't go."
Ethan: "Dammit, that is so true."
:D

The Flight 815 Others may have been brainwashed, or they may have just not been aware that everyone wasn't being taken care of. Either way (even with the kid there), Jack should have yelled out that "Anna Lucia is dead, and so are a half dozen other survivors from the plane that you people have killed".

I thought last week's "Desmondo" (as Hurley would say) ep was great. Rewatched it again last night before the new ep and liked it even better the second time around.

I also thought that last week's episode was fun - perhaps we're in the minority.

But this week. I've watched most of the episodes since season one and if this last episode wasn't a prime example of a show jumping the shark, I don't know what was. It was just a completely useless episode - we get another oracle-like woman, a completely useless sidestory with Jack ... that about covers it. Sorry if I sound so damn cynical but I'm just extremely depressed and tired about the show at this point - the 10pm time slot doesn't help a high school student like me either.

That's it. There are no answers. The show exists just to get from one tawangy moment to the next.
I'm getting concerned that you may be right. It really needs to start connecting some of the tawangs, not just hinting at connections. If the writers really do have the Lost concept all scoped out like they say they do, now is the time for them to start throwing their patient viewers some bones for taking their work seriously. If the show had started out this vague and confusing, it would have only lasted as long as Daybreak did.

No, showing the viewers that Cindy is now an Other is not going to keep them around. That was probably the least surprising revelation last night.

Sorry if I sound so damn cynical but I'm just extremely depressed and tired about the show at this point - the 10pm time slot doesn't help a high school student like me either.

Yeah, but even when you get fed up, frustrated, or just don't feel like it's worth staying up late for anymore - you still get to go out with teenage girls. Most of us don't have that option, so don't expect us to cry for you. ;)

So, how many flashbacks have we now had with Jack?

Either way (even with the kid there), Jack should have yelled out that "Anna Lucia is dead, and so are a half dozen other survivors from the plane that you people have killed".
I think he was trying to avoid frightening the children with the truth. He could have at least said, "How would I know how she is? Do you see her locked up in this cage with me?"

At least he finally had a decent sarcastic response to Ben's righteous rhetorical "What kind of people do you think we are?" question which he just loves to ask, while Jack acts like he can't hear a million viewers yelling obscenities at the screen.

So, how many flashbacks have we now had with Jack?

Exactly. And we still don't know why Locke was in a wheelchair.

Remember that in Lost time each episode only advances one day forward. Although to us viewers it sometimes feels like Jack's been captive for 5 months now, he's actually only been there for a little over a week his time.
I think this is a potentially fatal problem with Lost, the fact that we've been watching for almost 3 years, yet it's only been a month, or two months that they have actually been on the island. That is hard to reconcile especially with all the flashbacks. It's tough to get a real sense of time with the show, and in some ways it loses it's sense or urgency, or despair, of the situation they are in.


That's the reason Jack barked out at the stewardess and children when he saw them, instead of asking them for help. It was obvious that they were now part of the Others, through brainwashing or whatever other reason, and it would be futile to ask them for anything. He's fed up and pissed off at all the games they're making him play.
I think a lot of viewers are beginning to feel the same way about the show itself. I'm still watching, but it's not an event like it used to be, it's just another show on my now playing list.

Hell, why did Ben Almighty himself head into the Lostie''s camp?

As I recall it, he was caught up in one of Danielle's net traps and handed over to the Losties for whatever.

Now if Ben really was Alex's father, wouldn't Danielle have recognized/shot him on sight?

One thing I am noticing - even though we aren't getting our questions answers and the mysteries continue to pile on, I *feel* like the show has lost it's sense of mystery.

It's now a show about just the unrevealed.

It used to be about the mysterous.

There is a huge difference, and it's really dragging the show down now.

Sawyer had some great one-liners in last nights episode that made me laugh out loud.

The one I remember the most was when he referred to Alex as "Sally Slingshot"

What were some others?

One thing I am noticing - even though we aren't getting our questions answers and the mysteries continue to pile on, I *feel* like the show has lost it's sense of mystery.

It's now a show about just the unrevealed.

It used to be about the mysterous.

There is a huge difference, and it's really dragging the show down now.

Umm theres still the supernatural black cloud that floats around killing people. I think that's kinda significant as far as mysteries go.

just my two cents...its really sad that people are just so impatient these days...I understand its a reality of our world, but it's still a bit disappointing...everyone's always asking for answers, and when we get some, everyone complains that we didn't get all of them...for me, the greatest thing about this show is the suspense...its basically a big puzzle, but we don't know what the final picture is...you get little pieces to fit together early on,....occasionally you go work on some pieces off to the side and you're not too sure about where they fit in the overall puzzle...its generally a lot slower for things to come together at first, and requires patience...but as you get closer and closer to the end, things start coming together much quicker...personally, I love it,...I don't understand all the complaints really...some people I suppose don't like not knowing,...they don't like suspense...they just want everything spoon fed to them...to them I'd just say tune in around season 5, when the producers have said they plan to wrap this show up...or wait till its all over and read a summary of it all...

otherwise, I'm enjoying the ride,...and enjoying the pieces coming together, no matter how fast or slow that happens...

I agree. I'm not in any hurry to get the answers. I love this show. I don't think it's ever going to be cancelled because of ratings, so I'm happy to just ride this out and enjoy the ride. It's a great show.

“Lost” matched last week’s series low, although it still won the 10 p.m. hour by 39 percent over “CSI: NY” (4.1).

http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11598

just my two cents...its really sad that people are just so impatient these days...I understand its a reality of our world, but it's still a bit disappointing...everyone's always asking for answers, and when we get some, everyone complains that we didn't get all of them...for me, the greatest thing about this show is the suspense...its basically a big puzzle, but we don't know what the final picture is...you get little pieces to fit together early on,....occasionally you go work on some pieces off to the side and you're not too sure about where they fit in the overall puzzle...its generally a lot slower for things to come together at first, and requires patience...but as you get closer and closer to the end, things start coming together much quicker...personally, I love it,...I don't understand all the complaints really...some people I suppose don't like not knowing,...they don't like suspense...they just want everything spoon fed to them...to them I'd just say tune in around season 5, when the producers have said they plan to wrap this show up...or wait till its all over and read a summary of it all...

otherwise, I'm enjoying the ride,...and enjoying the pieces coming together, no matter how fast or slow that happens...

No, there's a difference between getting all the answers, and just plain having to deal with crappy episodes. Personally, I really liked the Desmond episode, and thought that one episode redeemed this season for me so far. But the rest of the episodes just haven't been intriguing at all. They've totally immasculated the others. I feel no sense of peril when anyone is around them. They run through the jungle, and fight and get shot and killed just like everyone else.

The problem is, it appears that they have actually changed who the others are. They set up some great mysteries with the others the last couple of seasons, and now they are just ordinary people doing massively mundane things. Frankly, it's BORING. Yet I will still watch it. I still love the show, and will follow it and hope for a big payoff at the end. HOwever, I am not interested in a metaphysical conundrum that simply CANNOT be answered, and I am afraid that is where the show is leading us...

Umm theres still the supernatural black cloud that floats around killing people. I think that's kinda significant as far as mysteries go.


Ha!! I had completely forgotten about that!

Bring back the cloud, the polar bear, the numbers, etc!

Wat I find funny is the fact that the writers took something not even intended for the show, Matthew Fox's tattoo's, and wrote them into the show. I recall seeing articles about the tattoos when the show first stated and reading that he had the 5 and the stars put on his shoulder to remember his first big break Party of 5, and he had the other characters added at a later point.

So, basically the writers pulled that out of their a**. Or they are just having fun with us.

It's not about needing the answers now. It's about the pacing of the interesting aspects of the show. For the first two seasons, I really cared about the characters, their histories, and their motivations. Strong character development, along with the mysteries of the island made for appointment television.

Right now, it seems that the show has lost its focus. People come in and out with little explanation or context. What was the point of seeing Cindy(?) and the kids outside Jack's cell? The lack of focus makes it hard to care about the characters and situations as much as I did in the past.