As I recall it, he was caught up in one of Danielle's net traps and handed over to the Losties for whatever.

Now if Ben really was Alex's father, wouldn't Danielle have recognized/shot him on sight?
Maybe Danielle is really an Other, and "capturing" Ben was a big set-up...

~Dan

i'm beginning to think lost has jumped the shark...

She was SMOKING hot in this ep...too bad we probably won't see her again :-( She probably died when Phuket got nuked by the tsunami....

She definitely reminds me of Dancing with the Stars' Cheryl Burke! :cool:

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/02/15/570712-new-lost-episode-hits-a-ratings-low
I don't think that Lost will just get cancelled, but at this rate they are going to look to start cutting costs. I would imagine some big things would be on the table: some actors, maybe even shooting on location--the thought of Lost being filmed in CA is unbearable. I know most of you don't believe this, but there is a point where ABC will decide they can use their money elsewhere for greater profit, regardless of whether 'Lost' is profitable. They're looking for the biggest bang for their buck.

I don’ think anyone has mentioned it, but the chemistry between Juliet and Jack is really building. I think their lips will be locking in the future - which on Lost, the future could be next week or next year and still encompass only a week. I wouldn’t blame Jack, because Juliet is looking sexier and sexier to me. I found her really seductive on this week’s episode.

Maybe Danielle is really an Other, and "capturing" Ben was a big set-up...

~Dan

Didn't she put an arrow through him? That's not the way I would have set it up if I were Ben.

On another note. How long before the island was it that Jack got his tatoos in Phuket? Do we know?

It's not about needing the answers now. It's about the pacing of the interesting aspects of the show. For the first two seasons, I really cared about the characters, their histories, and their motivations. Strong character development, along with the mysteries of the island made for appointment television.

Part of the fun of Lost is getting together and "solving the mystery". That involves taking all the clues and finding the answers that best "make sense". But if it starts to look like there really is no consistant explanation that does make sense then Lost will lose credibility. And there would be no point in trying to reason out what is actually happening. To work it has to maintain the fiction that at least the writers are capable of eventually putting it all together. Hopefully that is still true.


Right now, it seems that the show has lost its focus. People come in and out with little explanation or context. What was the point of seeing Cindy(?) and the kids outside Jack's cell? The lack of focus makes it hard to care about the characters and situations as much as I did in the past.

Showing the kids at least settled the question of whether the others had them or if it could have been some third group.

- Tom

I'm getting concerned that you may be right. It really needs to start connecting some of the tawangs, not just hinting at connections. If the writers really do have the Lost concept all scoped out like they say they do, now is the time for them to start throwing their patient viewers some bones for taking their work seriously. If the show had started out this vague and confusing, it would have only lasted as long as Daybreak did.Speaking of "tawangs..." do you think they will ever connect a . to the giant 4-toed statue that was revealed last season?

Just watched the show last night (DVR)....who taught those asian guys how to gang up on a single person? Have they never seen a Bruce Lee movie? Everyone knows they're supposed to stand around the target person in a circle moving their arms and legs and yelling, but attacking one by one - in turn - to give the target a fair chance to kick the crap out of the larger number of attackers. Having them all beat on Jack at once was so out of character...... :-)

As I recall it, he was caught up in one of Danielle's net traps and handed over to the Losties for whatever.

Now if Ben really was Alex's father, wouldn't Danielle have recognized/shot him on sight?

Alex was kidnapped, Ben "adopted" her (perhaps he's sterile from being on the island and can't have children himself - Alex was an opportunity) and Danielle never saw Ben before he got trapped in her net, but she knew he had to be one of the Others.

Now, that begs the question of why, after 16 years of being marooned on the island, she had never discovered suburban "Otherville", but there you are.

One question I have is whatever happened to the black Other woman that was interrogating Michael last season...? She looked like one of the leaders, now she's MIA.

Cindy clearly has been brainwashed, probably in that room we saw Karl being subjected to the video images. Perhaps they've done the same thing to all the children. Now, have all the Others also taken part in that brainwashing, or is that something they do to indoctrinate and pacify those they kidnap? Maybe that's what Cindy meant by "watching" - they watch those videos and get their brains washed. Maybe Karl is not through with the process, and Alex is somehow immune to it. She certainly seems to be able to flaunt her independence without fear of consequences, perhaps because of her privileged station in being Ben's adopted child.

The new branding on Juliet's back didn't look like the Hydra to me (Hydra has curving tenticles, not the straight lines on Juliet's new "tat").

Finally, I suspect the slow reveals to all the questions are all part of supplying more little clues for the discerning audience to process. Eventually, it will all come together, and will reward those who have stuck it out. I've always maintained that the writers are not "winging it" a la '24', but have an intricate plotline spanning several seasons all set up. I'm finding all the grumbling amusing, and disappointing. This is still a great show, and I'm still in it to the end.

That's the reason Jack barked out at the stewardess and children when he saw them, instead of asking them for help. It was obvious that they were now part of the Others, through brainwashing or whatever other reason, and it would be futile to ask them for anything. He's fed up and pissed off at all the games they're making him play.


I can't necessarily agree there. It seemed she was willing to answer his questions, even in a qualified manner. But he snapped and yelled at her and sent her away...

Jack = Not too bright

Why do they make Jack so screwed up? Who in their right mind follows their vacation booty call to their workplace (you could tell by the amount of money changing hands that it wasn't something he wanted to interfere with) and essentially forces her to tattoo him, breaking cultural taboos in the process (she was genuinely frightened by him). Then he acts surprised when he gets his ass kicked.

Just watched the show last night (DVR)....who taught those asian guys how to gang up on a single person? Have they never seen a Bruce Lee movie? Everyone knows they're supposed to stand around the target person in a circle moving their arms and legs and yelling, but attacking one by one - in turn - to give the target a fair chance to kick the crap out of the larger number of attackers. Having them all beat on Jack at once was so out of character...... :-)

Jack broke their cultural taboos...so the Bruce Lee rules were suspended :-)

Just watched the show last night (DVR)....who taught those asian guys how to gang up on a single person? Have they never seen a Bruce Lee movie? Everyone knows they're supposed to stand around the target person in a circle moving their arms and legs and yelling, but attacking one by one - in turn - to give the target a fair chance to kick the crap out of the larger number of attackers. Having them all beat on Jack at once was so out of character...... :-)

You could tell something was wrong right off the bat....their lips were in synch with their words....

I can't necessarily agree there. It seemed she was willing to answer his questions, even in a qualified manner. But he snapped and yelled at her and sent her away...

Jack = Not too bright

Why do they make Jack so screwed up? Who in their right mind follows their vacation booty call to their workplace (you could tell by the amount of money changing hands that it wasn't something he wanted to interfere with) and essentially forces her to tattoo him, breaking cultural taboos in the process (she was genuinely frightened by him). Then he acts surprised when he gets his ass kicked.

Well, they asked about Ana-Lucia. Who he clearly "liked" and desired to develop a relationship with. What would you do in that situation. Think about it.

A person who was "kidnapped" by the others comes up to you. You are in a cage and you are dirty, wearing the same unwashed clothes for god knows how long.... That person who was kidnapped is now living with the others that you have been so desperately trying to figure out so you can stop the kidnappings and killings. They are clean, showered, wearing fresh clothes and seem happy. Now you think to yourself that this person is living in the group with Ben, the leader of the others and seems very happy about that. Ben is the one who shot and killed (as far as you know) Ana-Lucia. Then this happy, clean, "kidnapped" person who seems to be walking around free in the community ruled by the person who killed someone you cared about asks you how Ana-Lucia is doing? Think about how much stress the others have caused Jack and his group. Sawyer was shot, Shannon is dead, Ana-Lucia is dead, Libby is dead, Michael took off after all the stress with his kid being kidnapped off the boat, some strange button needing to be pushed to save the world, some guy you ran into while jogging just happens to be the guy pushing the button, food and supplies fall from the sky, there is some kind of monster in the jungle..... Would you have been of clear mind to say..."What is going on? Are you ok? What kind of place is this? etc". I can't say that I would be.

I also think that Jack was on more of a vacation. At one point I thought I heard them talking about months. I think he was on an extended leave from work and she became much more than a vacation booty call. Considering she wouldn't share any information about herself, he took it upon himself to check it out.

Why did they fire the characters playing Locke, Syaid, Claire, Rose and Bernard and many others of the main cast??

Well, they asked about Ana-Lucia. Who he clearly "liked" and desired to develop a relationship with. What would you do in that situation. Think about it.

A person who was "kidnapped" by the others comes up to you. You are in a cage and you are dirty, wearing the same unwashed clothes for god knows how long.... That person who was kidnapped is now living with the others that you have been so desperately trying to figure out so you can stop the kidnappings and killings. They are clean, showered, wearing fresh clothes and seem happy.

I for one would be relieved and encouraged that they were still alive, not killed by the Others or eaten by Polar Bears, especially the children.

Now you think to yourself that this person is living in the group with Ben, the leader of the others and seems very happy about that. Ben is the one who shot and killed (as far as you know) Ana-Lucia.

Jack knows it was Michael...Michael admitted it just before they were captured.


Then this happy, clean, "kidnapped" person who seems to be walking around free in the community ruled by the person who killed someone you cared about asks you how Ana-Lucia is doing? Think about how much stress the others have caused Jack and his group. Sawyer was shot, Shannon is dead, Ana-Lucia is dead, Libby is dead, Michael took off after all the stress with his kid being kidnapped off the boat, some strange button needing to be pushed to save the world, some guy you ran into while jogging just happens to be the guy pushing the button, food and supplies fall from the sky, there is some kind of monster in the jungle..... Would you have been of clear mind to say..."What is going on? Are you ok? What kind of place is this? etc". I can't say that I would be.

I think you are going WAY out of your way to rationalize reasons why Jack wouldn't ask a few questions...when in fact it's just the writers way of keeping us in the dark. Jack can't get answers, otherwise we get them too, and the writers aren't ready for that yet. The problem I have is that I still think Jack should be asking the questions, whether he gets answers or not. They could have had her begin to answer his questions but get cut off by one of the Others. Plenty of ways to do that without making Jack into more of a whiny jerk than they already have. :-)

I also think that Jack was on more of a vacation. At one point I thought I heard them talking about months. I think he was on an extended leave from work and she became much more than a vacation booty call. Considering she wouldn't share any information about herself, he took it upon himself to check it out.

She already told him more than once to mind his business, that it was dangerous for him and her. He did more than gather information, once he found out what she did he essentially forced her to break her culture's taboos and for what? A tat? What part of their relationship gave him the right to slam her against the wall and throw her into chairs?

I want to root for Jack, but he's such a prick he makes it difficult (or rather, the writers do).

Why did they fire the characters playing Locke, Syaid, Claire, Rose and Bernard and many others of the main cast??
If this is derived from some news story elsewhere, I'd rather that this question not be answered - and in fact be deleted. I don't watch entertainment news shows nor do I read that stuff. Unless the upcoming promos have these folks killed off, I don't want to know about potential cast changes.

If true, it would definitely be a mega-spoiler. However, it isn't true. I think he's just drawing a conclusion based on the fact that they have not been featured in any episodes for quite a while.

If true, it would definitely be a mega-spoiler. However, it isn't true. I think he's just drawing a conclusion based on the fact that they have not been featured in any episodes for quite a while.
That's what I was thinking, but I didn't want to take the chance of someone confirming it.

Well, they asked about Ana-Lucia. Who he clearly "liked" and desired to develop a relationship with. What would you do in that situation. Think about it.

A person who was "kidnapped" by the others comes up to you. You are in a cage and you are dirty, wearing the same unwashed clothes for god knows how long.... That person who was kidnapped is now living with the others that you have been so desperately trying to figure out so you can stop the kidnappings and killings. They are clean, showered, wearing fresh clothes and seem happy. Now you think to yourself that this person is living in the group with Ben, the leader of the others and seems very happy about that. Ben is the one who shot and killed (as far as you know) Ana-Lucia. Then this happy, clean, "kidnapped" person who seems to be walking around free in the community ruled by the person who killed someone you cared about asks you how Ana-Lucia is doing? Think about how much stress the others have caused Jack and his group. Sawyer was shot, Shannon is dead, Ana-Lucia is dead, Libby is dead, Michael took off after all the stress with his kid being kidnapped off the boat, some strange button needing to be pushed to save the world, some guy you ran into while jogging just happens to be the guy pushing the button, food and supplies fall from the sky, there is some kind of monster in the jungle..... Would you have been of clear mind to say..."What is going on? Are you ok? What kind of place is this? etc". I can't say that I would be.

I also think that Jack was on more of a vacation. At one point I thought I heard them talking about months. I think he was on an extended leave from work and she became much more than a vacation booty call. Considering she wouldn't share any information about herself, he took it upon himself to check it out.I kind of thought that the clean kidnapped losties may have been there to watch the upcoming execution that didnt take place. Maybe by some sick order of their kidnappers.

Yeah, but even when you get fed up, frustrated, or just don't feel like it's worth staying up late for anymore - you still get to go out with teenage girls. Most of us don't have that option, so don't expect us to cry for you. ;)

that's funny, sometimes were the mind wanders...

Iteki,

even though Jack knew that Michael did the killings. Why did he do it? He did it to get his son back from Ben and get off the island. While that doesn't excuse Michael from killing them, it surely is something that Jack can understand. After all, Jack was willing to kill to get off the island. Juliette killed so she could go home too. Jack understood that and helped her.

While he might have been relieved to see the kids and everyone else alive and well, he has been under a tremendous amount of stress. The stress has been largely due to the fact that the others have been kidnapping them, causing murder (albeit indirectly), playing mindgames, etc.

While the writers may in fact be purposely preventing Jack from asking questions, but I still believe that the stress level that Jack is under is tremendous. He has asked some questions in the past and not really received any answers, so he may also be thinking "whats the use, I just want to go home"

Remember, he has become the "leader" of a group of people that survived a plane crash on a remote island inhabited by Others, monsters, people saving the world, kidnappers, an old ship full of dynamite.

If a vacation fling lasts for months, it has become more than a fling. If that person never would answer questions about their work, life, etc, wouldn't you be curious enough to find out?

Just my opinion....

I kind of thought that the clean kidnapped losties may have been there to watch the upcoming execution that didnt take place. Maybe by some sick order of their kidnappers.

I thought they were there to watch the trial.

I would hope that even as twisted as Ben is, his "better life" for the children does not include witnessing an execution.

Sure, Jack not asking questions was frustrating...

But it was even MORE frustrating that a supposedly smart/savvy/cunning guy like Sawyer WOULD NOT ASK ANY QUESTIONS when Alex's boyfriend was around. Instead, he consoles him on his "love troubles," then leaves.

That was ridiculous...

Why did they fire the characters playing Locke, Syaid, Claire, Rose and Bernard and many others of the main cast??

If they did that it would show suicide. Locke and Sayid are very popular characters who are integral to the show's history and appeal. The producers might get away with losing one after a dramatic storyline, but both would be a disaster.

If this show isn't making things up as it goes along, then the story arch was plotted poorly. Either way, it still leaves the show were it's at. That is, simply trying to do TOO much, (i.e. busy and illogical) and as a result, leaving viewers unsatisfied. Period.

If a vacation fling lasts for months, it has become more than a fling. If that person never would answer questions about their work, life, etc, wouldn't you be curious enough to find out?

Just my opinion....

If he had geniune feelings for her the last thing he should do is betray her trust like that. If she's not willing to tell him what she does and why then it's not gonna work out. Relationships are hard enough, but toss in cultural differences and a breach of trust and well...you get your ass kicked by 6 Thais. :-)

Franky if I were her brother I would have given him the ass kicking just for him roughing her up, forget the tattoo :-)

Why did they fire the characters playing Locke, Syaid, Claire, Rose and Bernard and many others of the main cast??

ABC is in spin-off mode with Grey's Anatomy, perhaps those 5 might be getting their own shows after a rescue.

Locke returns to his old job in: Locke Box
or a pre-crash Odd Couple type show with Jack's Dad called: Locke & Loaded

Sayid becomes a vigilante Philly cab driver in: I'ts Always Sunni in Philadelphia

Bernard loses his job and Rose has to hit the streets in: Bernie: Mac Daddy

;)

If another network can sweep in and snag the first 3 actors, they could get huge ratings with "The Fuad Squad". :D

STOP IT NOW!!!

You're killing me.

What about the Locke character with wheelchair in a remake of Ironside.


ABC is in spin-off mode with Grey's Anatomy, perhaps those 5 might be getting their own shows after a rescue.

Locke returns to his old job in: Locke Box
or a pre-crash Odd Couple type show with Jack's Dad called: Locke & Loaded

Sayid becomes a vigilante Philly cab driver in: I'ts Always Sunni in Philadelphia

Bernard loses his job and Rose has to hit the streets in: Bernie: Mac Daddy

;)

If another network can sweep in and snag the first 3 actors, they could get huge ratings with "The Fuad Squad". :D

I'm beginning to think the real raison d'etre for the whole series is just to have those tawangy moments when something strange happens. Not why it happens, not what happens after it happens, but just that moment itself.

Like, tawang, the lady in the antique shop knows Desmond's name. Tawang, Eko's brother's plane from Africa is on the island. Tawang, the same numbers show up in different places.

That's it. There are no answers. The show exists just to get from one tawangy moment to the next.
Yes, exactly. And I'm fine with that so long as each episode/arc is interesting enough to keep me entertained. To be honest, I really don't care how/if they ever reach a conclusion.

Part of the fun of Lost is getting together and "solving the mystery". That involves taking all the clues and finding the answers that best "make sense". But if it starts to look like there really is no consistant explanation that does make sense then Lost will lose credibility. And there would be no point in trying to reason out what is actually happening. To work it has to maintain the fiction that at least the writers are capable of eventually putting it all together. Hopefully that is still true.



Showing the kids at least settled the question of whether the others had them or if it could have been some third group.

- Tom

again,...all shows have "bad" episodes...it's the nature of the beast...personally, I cannot think of many shows (comedy or drama) that have had as many intriguing shows as Lost over a nearly 3 year span...sure there are some episodes that are more disappointing than others...but damn, there are so many great ones! who cares about the rest...

then people complain the show has lost the "mystery", and then they complain that there are no "answers"...well I hate to tell you this,...there's no mystery once you have the answers...once you know everything, the shows over,...thats it!

as for the first two seasons, so many argue that there was more mystery then, and we don't have that now...and once again, they complain that we don't get enough answers...its kind of a contradictory point of view...the reason the show is not as mysterious as it first was, is because we knew NOTHING when it first started...when I first saw the teaser commercials, I thought it was about a group of people who crash on an island...then the mysteries started....and I was hooked...some questions were answered, and some more mysteries were created...how many times have you picked up a really good book, and been a bit bummed when it was all over?

with Lost, there are so many intricate details to the story...so many tie-ins...they've done something in a tv show that I don't ever recall being done...everyone is entitled to their opinion obviously, but it seems so funny that the people screaming for more mystery like the first two seasons, are also screaming for answers...even though those two things are contradictory to one another....

again,...all shows have "bad" episodes...it's the nature of the beast...personally, I cannot think of many shows (comedy or drama) that have had as many intriguing shows as Lost over a nearly 3 year span...sure there are some episodes that are more disappointing than others...but damn, there are so many great ones! who cares about the rest...

then people complain the show has lost the "mystery", and then they complain that there are no "answers"...well I hate to tell you this,...there's no mystery once you have the answers...once you know everything, the shows over,...thats it!

as for the first two seasons, so many argue that there was more mystery then, and we don't have that now...and once again, they complain that we don't get enough answers...its kind of a contradictory point of view...the reason the show is not as mysterious as it first was, is because we knew NOTHING when it first started...when I first saw the teaser commercials, I thought it was about a group of people who crash on an island...then the mysteries started....and I was hooked...some questions were answered, and some more mysteries were created...how many times have you picked up a really good book, and been a bit bummed when it was all over?

with Lost, there are so many intricate details to the story...so many tie-ins...they've done something in a tv show that I don't ever recall being done...everyone is entitled to their opinion obviously, but it seems so funny that the people screaming for more mystery like the first two seasons, are also screaming for answers...even though those two things are contradictory to one another....

Hey, I didn't even think it was a bad episode. I enjoyed it and still religiously follow the show. And I'm not asking for more mystery. There is enough there already. But I would like to be able to maintain the feeling that most of the mysteries are, at least in principle, somehow relevantly tied together in some consistant theme and the authors will eventually show us how. I'm still hoping that is true but if the authors throw in too many things that end up being just loose ends by the end of the series then I believe I have a right to feel disappointed.

Just because someone likes the show or even hangs out in this thread does not mean they have to pretend the show is perfect.

- Tom

Hey, I didn't even think it was a bad episode. I enjoyed it and still religiously follow the show. And I'm not asking for more mystery. There is enough there already. But I would like to be able to maintain the feeling that most of the mysteries are, at least in principle, somehow relevantly tied together in some consistant theme and the authors will eventually show us how. I'm still hoping that is true but if the authors throw in too many things that end up being just loose ends by the end of the series then I believe I have a right to feel disappointed.

Just because someone likes the show or even hangs out in this thread does not mean they have to pretend the show is perfect.

- Tom

I totally agree,...I've had my problems with the show...but overall I love it, definitely my favorite show on television....

I'm with you, I don't think it was a bad episode either, maybe not as intriguing as some of the others...but I still liked it very much...

and trust me, I'm with everyone that eventually wants it all to tie together...I've put alot of faith into the writers and producers that it will eventually happen...and fully expect it to happen,...but I'd be the first to complain if at the end of the series, they never answered the major questions...but I do believe that there will be several loose ends that people will have to figure out for themselves...generally I find that great shows or movies, generally leave you wondering about something...don't get me wrong, I want to find out about how Libby tied into the whole insane asylum story,....very important loose end for me...I also want to know if Walt had any "special" powers...very important...but I also want to know what happened to Michael and Walt when they left the island, but if I don't, I'll assume they actually made it home....so thats not a really important loose end for me...

I think that for the first time in the show history most of the people in this thread didn't liked the show. I'm one of those.

I'm hoping for next week to be really good, so the Lost magic can come back to me.

ABC is in spin-off mode with Grey's Anatomy, perhaps those 5 might be getting their own shows after a rescue.

Locke returns to his old job in: Locke Box
or a pre-crash Odd Couple type show with Jack's Dad called: Locke & Loaded

Sayid becomes a vigilante Philly cab driver in: I'ts Always Sunni in Philadelphia

Bernard loses his job and Rose has to hit the streets in: Bernie: Mac Daddy

;)

If another network can sweep in and snag the first 3 actors, they could get huge ratings with "The Fuad Squad". :D

Those first two were genius. :D

Not trying to be a troll, but just how do you quantify what "most of the people" think?

I think that for the first time in the show history most of the people in this thread didn't liked the show. I'm one of those.

I'm hoping for next week to be really good, so the Lost magic can come back to me.

Anyone have answers to these questions?

1) Why can't a westerner get a tattoo in Thailand?

2) Why is a Thai tattoo written in Chinese (according to the "Sheriff") and not in Thai?


How about some "answers" based on the whole Desmond-is-time-tripping premise:

1) The tattoo lady can see through the space-time continuum and thus tattooed Jack based on where he was going to end up (i.e. on the island). That's why she's important enough to waste an episode on.

2) Juliette's "tattoo" takes her out of the space-time loop or some capability like that which the Others have.


Just some thoughts.


Mitch

I for one would be relieved and encouraged that they were still alive, not killed by the Others or eaten by Polar Bears, especially the children.



Jack knows it was Michael...Michael admitted it just before they were captured.


Whoa! Did I miss that scene or what?

I really, really liked the Desmond episode and saw this one as typical of this mediocre season. However, I'm not down on this show, not nearly as disappointed by the writing's turn as I am with BSG this season.

As to those who say that there aren't any intriguing questions still to be answered...the 4 toed statue, Desmond's travels outside of spacetime into the multiverse of possibilities and others abound.

Whoa! Did I miss that scene or what?

I really, really liked the Desmond episode and saw this one as typical of this mediocre season. However, I'm not down on this show, not nearly as disappointed by the writing's turn as I am with BSG this season.

As to those who say that there aren't any intriguing questions still to be answered...the 4 toed statue, Desmond's travels outside of spacetime into the multiverse of possibilities and others abound.

No--there are loads of intringuing questions that need to be answered. And I am not one of those that complains about not getting enough answered, or things like that. It's the stories that don't go anywhere, and the characters that are just so completely useless and uninteresting. It's the bad dialogue and sometimes corny acting.

I have a problem with how they have immasculated the others--not that they have "solved" the mystery of the others and therefore I am disappointed, it's that the others are simply not what the producers made them out to be in the first season. Remember when Eko crouched down behind bushes because he was actually scared of the others? If the others are as portrayed the last 7 weeks, then Eko could have easily brought the beat down with his Jesus stick. They're simply not as dangerous as they appear. Yeah, they certainly have a slanted view of ethics, but that's about it.

Remember when Ethan had almost super-human strength, and snuck up on Jack and put one hell of a beating on him when Jack was following him in the rain? Remember when Ethan came up out of the ocean to kill Scott/Steve? Remember when bearded guy was cunning and witty when confronting the Losties in the jungle? Now that same guy sits around with a pretty dumb look on his face the whole time. The others have turned from fantastic villains to mundane cultists. It's just not that interesting to me...

Part of the fun of Lost is getting together and "solving the mystery". That involves taking all the clues and finding the answers that best "make sense". ...
- Tom

The Desmond episode introduced the idea that a persons consciousness can move forward and backward along the time continuum. If a person moves back in time to their previous life, they can change events, but the change is only temporary. The time continuum has a dampening affect. This is why Charlie is eventually going to die, despite Desmond's repeated attempts to change the past and save him. Eventually, the time continuum restores itself.

On the internet, the writers of Lost introduced the Valenzetti equation. The Valenzetti equation predicts when the earth will end. Perhaps some group (the others, the Hanso foundation, etc.) is trying to postpone the end of the world. Perahps pushing the button in the hatch was part of a system that was built to do this. Perhaps the black cloud and the polar bear are just creations of the time continuum that are used to restore things that should have happened but were interfered with. Perhaps the magnetic-button-push machine that is saving the world is interfering with the death of the Losties that should have happened in the plane crash. I suspect that Walt and Michael are now dead, since they departed from the Island.

I like trying to anticipate where the Lost writers are going. Each episode feeds some more clues. You just need a good imagination.

Remember when Ethan had almost super-human strength, and snuck up on Jack and put one hell of a beating on him

I agree. Not only does it seem like the writers don't know where they are going with the story lines....it seems like they don't even remember events from previous episodes! :eek:

Part of the fun of Lost is getting together and "solving the mystery". That involves taking all the clues and finding the answers that best "make sense". But if it starts to look like there really is no consistant explanation that does make sense then Lost will lose credibility. And there would be no point in trying to reason out what is actually happening. To work it has to maintain the fiction that at least the writers are capable of eventually putting it all together. Hopefully that is still true.
Finally, I suspect the slow reveals to all the questions are all part of supplying more little clues for the discerning audience to process. Eventually, it will all come together, and will reward those who have stuck it out. I've always maintained that the writers are not "winging it" a la '24', but have an intricate plotline spanning several seasons all set up. I'm finding all the grumbling amusing, and disappointing. This is still a great show, and I'm still in it to the end.
Two great posts, basically in agreement with each other. archiguy you are optimistic and I hope you're correct.

No--there are loads of intringuing questions that need to be answered. And I am not one of those that complains about not getting enough answered, or things like that. It's the stories that don't go anywhere, and the characters that are just so completely useless and uninteresting. It's the bad dialogue and sometimes corny acting.

I have a problem with how they have immasculated the others--not that they have "solved" the mystery of the others and therefore I am disappointed, it's that the others are simply not what the producers made them out to be in the first season. Remember when Eko crouched down behind bushes because he was actually scared of the others? If the others are as portrayed the last 7 weeks, then Eko could have easily brought the beat down with his Jesus stick. They're simply not as dangerous as they appear. Yeah, they certainly have a slanted view of ethics, but that's about it.

Remember when Ethan had almost super-human strength, and snuck up on Jack and put one hell of a beating on him when Jack was following him in the rain? Remember when Ethan came up out of the ocean to kill Scott/Steve? Remember when bearded guy was cunning and witty when confronting the Losties in the jungle? Now that same guy sits around with a pretty dumb look on his face the whole time. The others have turned from fantastic villains to mundane cultists. It's just not that interesting to me...

I think we realized the others were not all super-human when we found out that Eko killed two of them on the beach when they were trying to kidnap him and some others....Furthermore, Ana Lucia was able to kill that one dude who infiltrated her group. (forgot his name) The Others as a group were more powerful and scary because nobody really knew their capabilities. The element of mystery or surprise is a powerful weapon. It can easily hide your weaknesses, which it apparently did in this case. So its normal that even Eko might have had his moments of fearing them.

That Ethan seemed to have super-human strength actually goes against what we learned about the rest of the others....He's the only one we've actually witnessed with super-human strength. Maybe that was his "thing", like Walt's super-human abilities that we have really yet to learn about.

Again, that the others were able to seemingly come and go at will is expected early on because no one really knew about them or understood them.


As for the stories that go nowhere,...we really don't know where they're going do we? At one point, the whole Polar Bear thing seemed pointless for the longest time...and now we've seen a couple more clues that shows they might fit into the bigger puzzle.

How about the hatch? After all that's happened, and now its gone...does that make it pointless? We still don't know REALLY what it was all about in the big picture...

Does some of it all seem contradictory or pointless or useless? Sure! I'm just one of those people that trusts (hopes) it will all come together. Others are skeptical, and they have every right to feel that way...

Truthfully, I'm just bitter because I know several people that have gotten fed-up with the show, so I have fewer people to discuss it with! :)

The Desmond episode introduced the idea that a persons consciousness can move forward and backward along the time continuum. If a person moves back in time to their previous life, they can change events, but the change is only temporary. The time continuum has a dampening affect. This is why Charlie is eventually going to die, despite Desmond's repeated attempts to change the past and save him. Eventually, the time continuum restores itself.

On the internet, the writers of Lost introduced the Valenzetti equation. The Valenzetti equation predicts when the earth will end. Perhaps some group (the others, the Hanso foundation, etc.) is trying to postpone the end of the world. Perahps pushing the button in the hatch was part of a system that was built to do this. Perhaps the black cloud and the polar bear are just creations of the time continuum that are used to restore things that should have happened but were interfered with. Perhaps the magnetic-button-push machine that is saving the world is interfering with the death of the Losties that should have happened in the plane crash. I suspect that Walt and Michael are now dead, since they departed from the Island.

I like trying to anticipate where the Lost writers are going. Each episode feeds some more clues. You just need a good imagination.

Excellent post and I like your theory.

One question I have is whatever happened to the black Other woman that was interrogating Michael last season...? She looked like one of the leaders, now she's MIA.
That would be part of the "What happened to all the black people on the island?" question.

Those first two were genius. :D

I was hoping Jack was rumored to be leaving because my favorite is:

Despite constant beatings from dozens of Thai gangs, Jack's forbidden love outweighs his pain in: Phuket - I'm Staying :D

Remember when Ethan had almost super-human strength, and snuck up on Jack and put one hell of a beating on him when Jack was following him in the rain? Remember when Ethan came up out of the ocean to kill Scott/Steve? Remember when bearded guy was cunning and witty when confronting the Losties in the jungle? Now that same guy sits around with a pretty dumb look on his face the whole time. The others have turned from fantastic villains to mundane cultists. It's just not that interesting to me...

Yep, not only was Ethan their only surgeon but the only one who could actually hold himself up in a fight. Everyone else has their ass kicked regularly by one or two of the Losties. Considering how long they have been on that island you would think it might have been a good idea to teach some of them the self defense moves that Ethan had.

One week they have stealth abilities so they can move through the jungle unseen and slip through the water to steal a boat. The next, two of them get a beat down from a weakened Sawyer and then they are tramping through the jungle and the only thing they can shoot is a radio out of someone's hand.

It also makes all the "terrified awe" responses that the Tailies had whenever someone mentioned The Others pretty ridiculous.

I was hoping Jack was rumored to be leaving because my favorite is:

Despite constant beatings from dozens of Thai gangs, Jack's forbidden love outweighs his pain in: Phuket - I'm Staying :D

I think that takes top honors. :D

Yep, not only was Ethan their only surgeon but the only one who could actually hold himself up in a fight. Everyone else has their ass kicked regularly by one or two of the Losties. Considering how long they have been on that island you would think it might have been a good idea to teach some of them the self defense moves that Ethan had.

One week they have stealth abilities so they can move through the jungle unseen and slip through the water to steal a boat. The next, two of them get a beat down from a weakened Sawyer and then they are tramping through the jungle and the only thing they can shoot is a radio out of someone's hand.

It also makes all the "terrified awe" responses that the Tailies had whenever someone mentioned The Others pretty ridiculous.

Eko was a victim to the same thing we all were...the staging and the subterfuge that the others put on him and us. We were fooled into thinking they were a lot tougher than they were, and so was Eko and the rest of the tailies.

Btw, someone mentioned earlier that the kids looked so ragged as they were tiptoeing through the jungle. It should be obvious now that that was for show too, just like the stage makeup that Kate found.

I thought Juliet's marking may have been to turn off some RFID-like signaler which identifies the others to the black smoke security system. I'm also guessing that the black smoke security system is protecting the others compound on the Lost island. Maybe the RFID-like signaler allows the others access to and from their homes without interference or confrontation by the black smoke security system.

Now, how this ties in with pilots being jerked out of cockpits, trees exploding out of the ground, and Locke being dragged down into one of the leftover holes, I think we can leave unaddressed at this point and we'll connect those dots in Season 5 :D

Despite constant beatings from dozens of Thai gangs, Jack's forbidden love outweighs his pain in: Phuket - I'm Staying :D

The contest is over, "We have the winner" :)

Another Sawyer one-liner: To Karl: "Like the Steal the kid off the raft project? That was a real humdinger."

I'd watch the show just for the Sawyerisms. Oh, and to look at Kate.

I thought Juliet's marking may have been to turn off some RFID-like signaler which identifies the others to the black smoke security system. I'm also guessing that the black smoke security system is protecting the others compound on the Lost island. Maybe the RFID-like signaler allows the others access to and from their homes without interference or confrontation by the black smoke security system.

Now, how this ties in with pilots being jerked out of cockpits, trees exploding out of the ground, and Locke being dragged down into one of the leftover holes, I think we can leave unaddressed at this point and we'll connect those dots in Season 5 :D

Well, no, actually that makes sense. All the others from 815 are "invaders" to the island. If the large island is truly where the Others live, they would have to have free access to any part of the island without worrying where "Smokey" is.

Also, we've had some discussion about the Others having extraordinary abilities. Maybe not. Maybe they can call upon "Smokey" when something needs to be done, like hang Charlie from a really tall tree.

Eko was a victim to the same thing we all were...the staging and the subterfuge that the others put on him and us. We were fooled into thinking they were a lot tougher than they were, and so was Eko and the rest of the tailies.


well not really, Ana took one of them out on her own and Eko fought off two or three at once after they surprised him. They had no reason to be so terrified of them to the melodramatic point the writer's gave them. They knew from very early that they were just humans and not particularly powerful humans at that.

I thought Juliet's marking may have been to turn off some RFID-like signaler which identifies the others to the black smoke security system. I'm also guessing that the black smoke security system is protecting the others compound on the Lost island. Maybe the RFID-like signaler allows the others access to and from their homes without interference or confrontation by the black smoke security system.


check two or three pages back for the earlier discussion on this.

It also makes all the "terrified awe" responses that the Tailies had whenever someone mentioned The Others pretty ridiculous.

Not necessarily. The Lostaways had good reason to be terrified and in awe of the Others, based on their point of view. They knew nothing about these Others, not their numbers, nor their origin, not their disposition, other than hostile. They knew Ethan seemed to have superhuman strength (although not enough to stop bullets). They had been repeatedly attacked and knew nothing about these people. Don't make the mistake of thinking the Losties should have the same impression of them as us viewers who are privy to a much wider perception.

We'll find out all about the Others by the end of the season, I suspect. And when that happens, a great deal of the mystery surrounding the island will be over. The trick the writers have is to open new storylines out of the answers we're all seeking. They have to jazz up the fans again to get this show out of the doldrums, and that means introducing new puzzles and mysteries even as they finally provide answers for the ones they've already introduced.

I think perhaps the writers, energized by the show's early success, actually did plot out a 5 year plus arc, perhaps even 7, for this show. Then, the ratings and critical crash this year caught them unawares. They probably figured they had years to reveal the secrets of Darma and the island, and this season has been following that original game plan as pre-production started back in the summer. They had to be shocked silly at the harsh reaction from the fan base to this fall's plotline. Now, they've got to regroup and compress things because the end is a lot nearer than they thought. Personally, I think that's great. The idea of announcing a finite end to the show has a good chance of stirring up enough buzz to get the numbers up. And, it could cut out filler and really move things along. Restore a sense of urgency. A lot of the fair-weather fans would jump back on the bandwagon if it picked up speed again.

I thought they were there to watch the trial.

I would hope that even as twisted as Ben is, his "better life" for the children does not include witnessing an execution.

I couldn't discern WHAT they were there to watch.

Sorry if this was already answered earlier. What did the stewardess say to Jack while he was in the cage which caused him to go ballistic and chase the crowd off? I have the show TIVO'd, but even when playing it over and over, I counldn't understand what it was she said.

Sorry if this was already answered earlier. What did the stewardess say to Jack while he was in the cage which caused him to go ballistic and chase the crowd off? I have the show TIVO'd, but even when playing it over and over, I counldn't understand what it was she said.

The little girl asked how Anna Lucia was.

The Desmond episode introduced the idea that a persons consciousness can move forward and backward along the time continuum. If a person moves back in time to their previous life, they can change events, but the change is only temporary. The time continuum has a dampening affect. This is why Charlie is eventually going to die, despite Desmond's repeated attempts to change the past and save him. Eventually, the time continuum restores itself.

On the internet, the writers of Lost introduced the Valenzetti equation. The Valenzetti equation predicts when the earth will end. Perhaps some group (the others, the Hanso foundation, etc.) is trying to postpone the end of the world. Perahps pushing the button in the hatch was part of a system that was built to do this. Perhaps the black cloud and the polar bear are just creations of the time continuum that are used to restore things that should have happened but were interfered with. Perhaps the magnetic-button-push machine that is saving the world is interfering with the death of the Losties that should have happened in the plane crash. I suspect that Walt and Michael are now dead, since they departed from the Island.

I like trying to anticipate where the Lost writers are going. Each episode feeds some more clues. You just need a good imagination.

Some great original thoughts you have there!

You could tell something was wrong right off the bat....their lips were in synch with their words....

Cute!

The little girl asked how Anna Lucia was.

Ah... okay, thanks.

I was hoping Jack was rumored to be leaving because my favorite is:

Despite constant beatings from dozens of Thai gangs, Jack's forbidden love outweighs his pain in: Phuket - I'm Staying :D

You CAN'T be THAT good Panther! :D :D :D (or are you?)

STOP IT NOW!!!

You're killing me.

What about the Locke character with wheelchair in a remake of Ironside.LOL! That reminds me of that TV-movie ABC made in the late 70s, I think it was. They spoofed Ironside among others, and Jimmy "JJ" Walker played his sidekick. Oh yeah, his name was Ironbottom, and his partner had to lift him through a street sewer access. Hilarious!

Yeah, but even when you get fed up, frustrated, or just don't feel like it's worth staying up late for anymore - you still get to go out with teenage girls. Most of us don't have that option, so don't expect us to cry for you. ;)

Who wants teenage girls? No thanks. I'll take a mature, experienced WOMAN any day of the week. :p

Not necessarily. The Lostaways had good reason to be terrified and in awe of the Others, based on their point of view. They knew nothing about these Others, not their numbers, nor their origin, not their disposition, other than hostile. They knew Ethan seemed to have superhuman strength (although not enough to stop bullets). They had been repeatedly attacked and knew nothing about these people. Don't make the mistake of thinking the Losties should have the same impression of them as us viewers who are privy to a much wider perception.


I'm not talking about the Losties, I'm talking about the Tailies. Whenever one of the Tailies was asked about The Others they always freaked out over dramatically, and they killed three of them and barely had any contact after that. They knew they were just people.

Even the Losties, who had been infiltrated and unable to stop them didn't panic as much.

And our perception was exactly the same as the characters until Season 3, since we only saw what they saw.

So, let me get this straight....the hatch can begin to meltdown and exert a jetliner out of the sky from 35,000 feet breaking it apart in the process.

But it the hatch really continues to meltdown to the point where it collapses on itself, items on the Island and surrounding Island are virtually untouched except for the hatch - and not even all items in the hatch.

O K

So, let me get this straight....the hatch can begin to meltdown and exert a jetliner out of the sky from 35,000 feet breaking it apart in the process.

But it the hatch really continues to meltdown to the point where it collapses on itself, items on the Island and surrounding Island are virtually untouched except for the hatch - and not even all items in the hatch.

O K

Apparently it's that whole "Desmond and the key" thing. He turned the whatchamacallit off just before the doohickey was able to make the thingamabob go blooie. ;)

We don't know there was no harm. Maybe the rest of the world was destroyed by the pulse. :)

We don't know there was no harm. Maybe the rest of the world was destroyed by the pulse. :)

...all except for this little town called Jericho....

Why did they fire the characters playing Locke, Syaid, Claire, Rose and Bernard and many others of the main cast??Locke & Syaid are gone? :eek: Bummer :( This show is starting to suc... :mad: big time!

Locke & Syaid are gone? :eek: Bummer :( This show is starting to suc... :mad: big time!

Chill Dude; no worries. Just the Forum equivalent of someone yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. :rolleyes:

Chill Dude; no worries. Just the Forum equivalent of someone yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. :rolleyes:

I took it as a sarcastic jab at the lack of their presence in recent episodes. The writers developed some very interesting characters and then gave a lot of screen time to "others" who are much less so.

Oh... OK :o It's basically impossible to keep up with this thread, but killing off two of the most important/interesting characters would be too much for me.

The cast of is huge and it's impossible to evenly distribute the camera time among them all.

Personally I was shocked (and saddened) to see Ana Lucia killed off so soon and IMO the loss of Eko was a bad move too. However, I am intrigued with Ben, Juliet, Desmond and Penny who are all welcome additions to the cast.

For me, Lost is still the best show on TV despite the late night time slot and frequent commercial interruptions which occur approximately every 9 minutes.

I took it as a sarcastic jab at the lack of their presence in recent episodes. The writers developed some very interesting characters and then gave a lot of screen time to "others" who are much less so.
God !! I wish people had some patience. Simply because the Others are getting more screen time compared to the Losties we knew already doesn't mean they are somehow not important to whatever happened and is happening on the island.

Can't you guys (generalization) wait for the dots to connect? This is turning out to be similar to Halo-2, the videogame, where people got irritated by having to play in the perspective of the Covenant. Everyone loved it shooting at the bad guys, but when they were shown the perspective of the bad guy, suddenly everything became irrelavant and irritating.

Just wait to see why they are getting this much screen time, and what caused them to become these mere mortals, a far fetch from the "mythical demons" they were portrayed to be in S1.

I couldn't discern WHAT they were there to watch.

Sawyer and Kate going at it in the cage?

God !! I wish people had some patience. Can't you guys (generalization) wait for the dots to connect? Dude... patience? We (generalization) have been waiting 2 1/2 years for those connecting dots. :p

Dude... patience? We (generalization) have been waiting 2 1/2 years for those connecting dots. :p
Not to mention, it would be odd asking for patience in a forum where a large portion of the posters probably bought HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players on day one - from Japan...

Not to mention, it would be odd asking for patience in a forum where a large portion of the posters probably bought HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players on day one - from Japan...

I'd like to think that is more because "we" know a good product when we see one. ;) We are more savvy and educated than the typical Nielsen mafioso. But that is subject of another discussion.

I'd like to think that is more because "we" know a good product when we see one. ;) We are more savvy and educated than the typical Nielsen mafioso. But that is subject of another discussion.So are you saying that everyone who watches AI is a dumb-a$$? :D

So are you saying that everyone who watches AI is a dumb-a$$? :D
Well, I don't watch it, and I'm certainly not a dumb-a$$. :D

God !! I wish people had some patience. Simply because the Others are getting more screen time compared to the Losties we knew already doesn't mean they are somehow not important to whatever happened and is happening on the island.

Whoa, slow down a bit there. Regardless of who is getting screen time, we do have a right to judge whether it's actually entertaining or not. A mystery unto itself is not necessarily of value if the pacing, clues, and character development are not of decent quality. To those ends, the show is less interesting than it has been, and that has nothing to do with attention span or needing answers. IMO, the addition of new characters with little relevant back story has damaged the pacing of the show.

Whoa, slow down a bit there. Regardless of who is getting screen time, we do have a right to judge whether it's actually entertaining or not. A mystery unto itself is not necessarily of value if the pacing, clues, and character development are not of decent quality. To those ends, the show is less interesting than it has been, and that has nothing to do with attention span or needing answers. IMO, the addition of new characters with little relevant back story has damaged the pacing of the show.
Agreed. I'll take a Locke or Sayid story over one from Jack any day of the week - including Wednesday.

Whoa, slow down a bit there. Regardless of who is getting screen time, we do have a right to judge whether it's actually entertaining or not. A mystery unto itself is not necessarily of value if the pacing, clues, and character development are not of decent quality. To those ends, the show is less interesting than it has been, and that has nothing to do with attention span or needing answers. IMO, the addition of new characters with little relevant back story has damaged the pacing of the show.

I think there IS some connection to what was shown regarding Jack's tattoos, Juliette's branding and such. I put forth a theory a page or two before. I am willing to give this storyline a chance to see how it ties into what has been shown before.

I am not dropping the brick on them yet by insinuating that what was shown was a filler crap because they ran out of ideas. Not yet, anyways.

I am not dropping the brick on them yet by insinuating that what was shown was a filler crap because they ran out of ideas. Not yet, anyways.
I don't think anyone is saying they've run out of ideas. I think it's just that they've fallen short when implementing them.

Agreed. I'll take a Locke or Sayid story over one from Jack any day of the week - including Wednesday.

Or Hurley for the matter. Jack is just too whiny and not enough spark. Hurley, Locke and Sayid are incredible characters compared to Jack. Maybe I'll like Jack if he ends up going 'Other' and becomes a bad guy. That would be a great turn for his character. As is, I'm sick of him.

Or Hurley for the matter. Jack is just too whiny and not enough spark. Hurley, Locke and Sayid are incredible characters compared to Jack. Maybe I'll like Jack if he ends up going 'Other' and becomes a bad guy. That would be a great turn for his character. As is, I'm sick of him.
He could wear all black like Spider-Man.

Or Hurley for the matter. Jack is just too whiny and not enough spark. Hurley, Locke and Sayid are incredible characters compared to Jack. Maybe I'll like Jack if he ends up going 'Other' and becomes a bad guy. That would be a great turn for his character. As is, I'm sick of him.

Heh...when he had that devious smile at the end of the season 2 finale just before they put the bag over Kate's head I totally thought he might be turning evil (or in on it the whole time), and that it was going to be awesome.

maybe you guys mentioned it, but i can't find it anywhere-----with the whole Desmond episode and time travel talk, did'nt we see his girlfriend from England at the end of Season2 having those researchers searching for the same pulse of magnetism? I am curious as to how this all plays out with Desmond. Wasn't that shot of his girl at the end of Season2 our first glimpse into the outside world? So that should kill the "rest of te world was destroyed theory" by Desmonds pulse. In Lost time, shouldnt we see Desmonds girl on the island by seasons end? Anyone have theorys about that?

maybe you guys mentioned it, but i can't find it anywhere-----with the whole Desmond episode and time travel talk, did'nt we see his girlfriend from England at the end of Season2 having those researchers searching for the same pulse of magnetism? I am curious as to how this all plays out with Desmond. Wasn't that shot of his girl at the end of Season2 our first glimpse into the outside world? So that should kill the "rest of te world was destroyed theory" by Desmonds pulse. In Lost time, shouldnt we see Desmonds girl on the island by seasons end? Anyone have theorys about that?


Holy crap, was that her?!?! I completely forget about it!!

But, I won't get too excited about what could be a cool storyline - I be the writers have forgotten about it, too... :confused:

maybe you guys mentioned it, but i can't find it anywhere-----with the whole Desmond episode and time travel talk, did'nt we see his girlfriend from England at the end of Season2 having those researchers searching for the same pulse of magnetism? I am curious as to how this all plays out with Desmond. Wasn't that shot of his girl at the end of Season2 our first glimpse into the outside world? So that should kill the "rest of te world was destroyed theory" by Desmonds pulse. In Lost time, shouldnt we see Desmonds girl on the island by seasons end? Anyone have theorys about that?

Time travel also allows you to go into the past. The magnetic pulse might not literally "destroy" the whole world, but it might set forth events that would lead to the end of the world. I am assuming the "Desmond's pulse" you were referring to was the first incident where he forgot to push the button immediately before flight 815 crashed.

That pulse might have brought the flight down, and set in motion the effects we are seeing right now.. aka Locke is back to his pre-handicap days where he could stand and walk on his own. Rose is back to her pre-cancer state. Sun got pregnant (maybe Jin's baby, which she might have actually aborted in the past). Jack saw dead people. Kate saw horse from the past. Hurley saw the bald guy from the asylum. Desmondo travels in a time loop.

The Losties have been caught in a "glitch in the matrix" sort of thing that has "reset the variables", so to speak. Now, using the "sentinel" parallel from "The Matrix", I would say Smokey the monster is like a housekeeping sentinel in computer parlance that gets rid of unwanted code remnants from the matrix. So, it leads me to believe that all the "dummy variable" Losties leading normal lives on the island will be dealt with by the smokey or die due to the inevitable correction of the space-time continuum. Unless something happens to Sawyer (like what happened to Kate) I'd assume he will be Lost too in one of the yet to come sensational Lost moments. I hope they keep him alive, though, just for the "Sawyerisms". He is one of my favorite characters.

That leads me to think, is branding Juliette some way of "marking her for deletion" by Smokey?? Jack "walks amongst us, but he is not one among us", "us" being some sort of the "constants" in the Valenzetti equation that cannot be deleted? Lots of interesting possibilities. This is the beauty of the show. It stimulates imagination from the viewers, rather than making them dummy receptacles to whatever the writers choose to dump through the screen.

When I first watched the Desmond England episode I sort of figured his consciousness had been sent back in time but that the end of the episode he had somehow zapped again to the present. But I guess instead it might have been just another flashback and he has always had those memories of the future. So there may be more flashback episodes we haven't seen yet where he confides various things to his girlfriend, talks to Jack in the stadium or whatever, with partial knowledge of future events. This sort of interference could account for some strange coincidences that have not yet been explained, such as broadcasting silly numbers on the radio for Hurley, having a fortune teller manipulate Clair onto the plane, or even drawing Jack by killing his father.

Wierd coincidences are not really improbable if you are creating them with advance knowledge of future events.

- Tom

Time travel also allows you to go into the past. The magnetic pulse might not literally "destroy" the whole world, ... This is the beauty of the show. It stimulates imagination from the viewers, rather than making them dummy receptacles to whatever the writers choose to dump through the screen.

I say raaj should be a Lost writer. His conclusions are more interesting and insightful than the show itself. He could correct this sinking ship of a show.

Somebody forward raaj's board comments to the producers of this show...

I say raaj should be a Lost writer. His conclusions are more interesting and insightful than the show itself. He could correct this sinking ship of a show.

This show is not sinking. Rather, it is the fair-weather fans who are jumping overboard because of their own impatience. The true fans know the ship is still watertight and seaworthy. When it finally sails triumphant into port, those who couldn't stay the course will gaze wistfully at the sight, knowing they missed the conclusion of a great video adventure. They will have only themselves to blame as they slink away in dispair, bathed in tears of self-loathing and regret.

:p

This show is not sinking. Rather, it is the fair-weather fans who are jumping overboard because of their own impatience. The true fans know the ship is still watertight and seaworthy. When it finally sails triumphant into port, those who couldn't stay the course will gaze wistfully at the sight, knowing they missed the conclusion of a great video adventure. They will have only themselves to blame as they slink away in dispair, bathed in tears of self-loathing and regret.

:p

And the Church said "Amen"!

And the Church said "Amen"!

That'd be "Amen, brotha'"!

I don’ think anyone has mentioned it, but the chemistry between Juliet and Jack is really building. I think their lips will be locking in the future - which on Lost, the future could be next week or next year and still encompass only a week. I wouldn’t blame Jack, because Juliet is looking sexier and sexier to me. I found her really seductive on this week’s episode.

that is so nasty- looking at Santa's wife as a sex object.

I know who's on the naughty list this year!

:D

that is so nasty- looking at Santa's wife as a sex object.

I know who's on the naughty list this year!

:D

...when you consider that Mrs. Claus has no problem pulling out a gun and blowing away someone she considers naughty, I'd tread carefully!

Yeah, but even when you get fed up, frustrated, or just don't feel like it's worth staying up late for anymore - you still get to go out with teenage girls. Most of us don't have that option, so don't expect us to cry for you. ;)
HAhahaha! This comment made my day! :D

But you do realize that my actually visiting these forums indicates that I have little if any life (or teenage girls) whatsoever? ;)

This show is not sinking. Rather, it is the fair-weather fans who are jumping overboard because of their own impatience. The true fans know the ship is still watertight and seaworthy. When it finally sails triumphant into port, those who couldn't stay the course will gaze wistfully at the sight, knowing they missed the conclusion of a great video adventure. They will have only themselves to blame as they slink away in dispair, bathed in tears of self-loathing and regret.

:p


The X-Files.

:D

Jack saw dead people. Kate saw horse from the past. Hurley saw the bald guy from the asylum.

those elements were created by the security system.

That leads me to think, is branding Juliette some way of "marking her for deletion" by Smokey??

Unless the brand destroys the device that protects Juliet as discussed earlier, the security system wouldn't need visual confirmation. Since it scans their mind and bases it's actions on that.

It stimulates imagination from the viewers, rather than making them dummy receptacles to whatever the writers choose to dump through the screen.

or it forces the viewers to come up with a more interesting story than what is actually taking place to keep people interested. In the hope that when something does get answered, it's actually as complex and clever as you hoped it would be.

For the fans of the show: Evangeline Lilly will be on Letterman on Tuesday (Wednesday night for Australia) to promote Lost. Might be worthwhile for those who are interested in all the Lost they can take :).

those elements were created by the security system.

Unless the brand destroys the device that protects Juliet as discussed earlier, the security system wouldn't need visual confirmation. Since it scans their mind and bases it's actions on that.

or it forces the viewers to come up with a more interesting story than what is actually taking place to keep people interested. In the hope that when something does get answered, it's actually as complex and clever as you hoped it would be.

I don't know who you are, but it does look like you have more insight into the story than us. While others say "I think", your tone is like "Don't you know that .."

BTW, what "device" is protecting Juliette? I don't recall anything like a "device" being shown, other than the brand. I think Smoky scanning their brains is a separate process from people seeing manifestations. It has never been shown that the manifestations were smoky indeed. Reading the minds of people could be akin to scanning a barcode and checking if that "specimen" matches its tasklist of anomalies to correct.

If you think about it, none of the people central to the story that have seen these manifestations have been killed, other than Eko, which I think was a move dictated by the actor's departure from the show, than some aspect of necessary storytelling. The only other loss was Shannon and Boone. Maybe they were eliminated after their purpose on the island has been served to set forth some chain of events.

You have the right to be cynical of the show, but if every post of yours is just being dismissive or derisive of the show, why don't you just take a break from the discussion? I am saying this with the friendlies intentions. Repeatedly saying that the writers are doing a bad job, when you don't know half the story arc to base that upon is just not constructive to discussion, if not annoying. Unless you have seen the script for the remaining seasons.

Whats the name of the actress that played the super hot asian lady with the fake breasts that did the tatoos on Jake?

Whats the name of the actress that played the super hot asian lady with the fake breasts that did the tatoos on Jake?

She tattooed Jack (not Jake)...she's Bai Ling (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000499/) I guess I'd need a judge's ruling on her boob status...they looked real to me.

She tattooed Jack (not Jake)...she's Bai Ling (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000499/) I guess I'd need a judge's ruling on her boob status...they looked real to me.

They are. In her home country, she'd be considered a "brick house". In the west, not so much. ;)

Some spoilers deleted. Please keep any discussion of website info restricted to the "Spoilers" thread.

Anyone have answers to these questions?

1) Why can't a westerner get a tattoo in Thailand?

2) Why is a Thai tattoo written in Chinese (according to the "Sheriff") and not in Thai?



1) Westerner's can get a tattoo, but not one of hers. Hers appear to be spiritual in nature and are considered powerful (from what I can tell). Jack was welcome to walk into any number of neon lit generic tattoo parlors, but hers appears to have been off limits and very

2) See this article (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-75066/Tai-languages) ...apparently both Chinese and Thai writing systems are used, but the Chinese writing system appears to be used mainly for poetry and song.

She tattooed Jack (not Jake)...she's Bai Ling (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000499/) I guess I'd need a judge's ruling on her boob status...they looked real to me.

They can't be real. When she was lying down, you could clearly see the implant seperate from her real breast. Its the one time that always gives it away. The implant can't interact with surrounding tissue and when lying flat is constrained by the lining of the implant. So it floats above the rest of the breast. If anyone has a freeze frame you can clearly see it the implant, all nice and round, then the rest of the tissue below it. Clearly an implant. Nice work, but it is an implant. Have your girlfriend/wife, etc. lay down flat and observe for your self. :D

Aren't the tatoos whatever the actor Matthew Fox has had for years? They're not some mystic, "special" tatoos but the writers used them to pad an episode.

True sign that they're stalling for time.

Aren't the tatoos whatever the actor Matthew Fox has had for years? They're not some mystic, "special" tatoos but the writers used them to pad an episode.

True sign that they're stalling for time.

That's true. He got them for "Party of Five", but apparently a number of fans of Lost thought they had some Lost significance. Now they do. :D

Aren't the tatoos whatever the actor Matthew Fox has had for years? They're not some mystic, "special" tatoos but the writers used them to pad an episode.

True sign that they're stalling for time.

Noone ever said Matt Fox's tattoo's were special, they've just been written into the show in another "jack ruins a perfectly good relationship' flashback.

They can't be real. When she was lying down, you could clearly see the implant seperate from her real breast. Its the one time that always gives it away. The implant can't interact with surrounding tissue and when lying flat is constrained by the lining of the implant. So it floats above the rest of the breast. If anyone has a freeze frame you can clearly see it the implant, all nice and round, then the rest of the tissue below it. Clearly an implant. Nice work, but it is an implant. Have your girlfriend/wife, etc. lay down flat and observe for your self. :D

Assuming your wife/girlfriend doesnt have implants!

If you want to do some more research you can get a better view online. Bai Ling has been naked many, many times. Just putting that out there.

I don't know who you are, but it does look like you have more insight into the story than us. While others say "I think", your tone is like "Don't you know that .."

Because all the story points I've mentioned have already been stated! The security system revelation was mentioned in this thread after the opening recap episode of this season, and discussed plenty of times since the crucifix encounter with Eko. Pay attention and you would know just as much as me.

BTW, what "device" is protecting Juliette? I don't recall anything like a "device" being shown, other than the brand. I think Smoky scanning their brains is a separate process from people seeing manifestations. It has never been shown that the manifestations were smoky indeed. Reading the minds of people could be akin to scanning a barcode and checking if that "specimen" matches its tasklist of anomalies to correct.

Read the earlier discussion in this thread. The "brand destroys a device" theory. Nobody said it was accurate or correct.

Security system created the manifestations. Mentioned in this thread and in the opening recap of this season. Theory also mentioned in a discussion by Lindelhof and Cuse. Scanning the mind gives the security system information it can use.

see:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9474353&&#post9474353

You have the right to be cynical of the show, but if every post of yours is just being dismissive or derisive of the show, why don't you just take a break from the discussion? I am saying this with the friendlies intentions. Repeatedly saying that the writers are doing a bad job, when you don't know half the story arc to base that upon is just not constructive to discussion, if not annoying. Unless you have seen the script for the remaining seasons.

Why do I need to take a break? If you can't deal with the debate then maybe you should take a break and gather more Lost info. It's all out there. Far more than I've bothered reading. For someone who loves the show so much you aren't paying much attention to detail, both in this thread and in the Lost mythology.

I'm not going to sit back and give a free pass to any show on TV. I watch Lost without blinkers. if I think it's good, I'll say it's good. If it's not I'll say it's not. The first season was one of the best opening seasons of any show in recent memory. This season has been one of the dullest. You don't need to see a script for the entire season to know bad pacing and weak writing. If you did then every TV journalist on the planet would be out of a job.

So if you don't want to read that viewpoint then don't. Nobody is forcing you. If you do, then come back to me with show based facts and evidence to argue with rather than hoping I'll go away just because you don't like it.

And now back to the regularly scheduled debates.

If you are going to discuss canon, you have to stay within the confines of the show. I don't think you can say definitively that the manifestations are from the black smoke. There may be some evidence that Yemi was, but the other ones can be hallucinations--or there may actually be a big horse roaming the island (why not, there are some polar bears...)

With regard to the numbers, it is my understanding that there is not meant to be cross-over between the game and the show, so I am not convinced that the explanation found in the game is right.

VisionOn: These theories may be right, but stating them as fact is what is confusing about your posts. Until we get proof from the show that these things are what we think they are, then we are just stuck with our theories for now.

they may be able to explain away a lot of the mystical stuff -- but young walt's powers seem to purely out of the ordinary.

If you are going to discuss canon, you have to stay within the confines of the show. I don't think you can say definitively that the manifestations are from the black smoke. There may be some evidence that Yemi was, but the other ones can be hallucinations--or there may actually be a big horse roaming the island (why not, there are some polar bears...)


They are all manifestations of the black smoke. Jack's father? Certainly. And the horse wasn't just any ol' nag; it was Kate's horse (which she recognized), somehow conjured up by the smoke monster. Both Shannon and Sayid saw the dripping apparition of Walt, etc. The polar bear was different because it actually attacked, giving it a level of "interaction" not seen with the other visions (plus we know about the bears being kept in Sawyer's [now Jack's] cage). We've covered all this before...

Because all the story points I've mentioned have already been stated! The security system revelation was mentioned in this thread after the opening recap episode of this season, and discussed plenty of times since the crucifix encounter with Eko. Pay attention and you would know just as much as me.

Read the earlier discussion in this thread. The "brand destroys a device" theory. Nobody said it was accurate or correct.

Security system created the manifestations. Mentioned in this thread and in the opening recap of this season. Theory also mentioned in a discussion by Lindelhof and Cuse. Scanning the mind gives the security system information it can use.

see:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9474353&&#post9474353

Why do I need to take a break? If you can't deal with the debate then maybe you should take a break and gather more Lost info. It's all out there. Far more than I've bothered reading. For someone who loves the show so much you aren't paying much attention to detail, both in this thread and in the Lost mythology.

I'm not going to sit back and give a free pass to any show on TV. I watch Lost without blinkers. if I think it's good, I'll say it's good. If it's not I'll say it's not. The first season was one of the best opening seasons of any show in recent memory. This season has been one of the dullest. You don't need to see a script for the entire season to know bad pacing and weak writing. If you did then every TV journalist on the planet would be out of a job.

So if you don't want to read that viewpoint then don't. Nobody is forcing you. If you do, then come back to me with show based facts and evidence to argue with rather than hoping I'll go away just because you don't like it.

And now back to the regularly scheduled debates.

So you are lashing out at me when all you base your "facts" upon are your own musings and guesses from other users? :rolleyes: If the "device" you mentioned was revealed elsewhere other than the main show, then it is a "spoiler" and does not belong in this thread, and you cannot use that as a fact to lash out at people here.

I might have missed where Lindelof and Cruse accepted the "manifestations were just Smokey in disguise" theory. Please point me to such acceptance discussion, as my googling did not turn up anything conclusive.

I don't want to put anyone on the ignore list. I enjoy reading everyone's opinions, and that is one of the best things about this show. I am just suggesting that you tone down the aggressive assertive nature of your postings, as most of them were based on your own guesswork. Don't bring in theories or "facts" that were not revealed on the show. The "spoilers" thread would be a better place.

Assuming your wife/girlfriend doesnt have implants!

If you want to do some more research you can get a better view online. Bai Ling has been naked many, many times. Just putting that out there.

Oh I wish I didn't know that! :D

So you are lashing out at me when all you base your "facts" upon are your own musings and guesses from other users? :rolleyes: If the "device" you mentioned was revealed elsewhere other than the main show, then it is a "spoiler" and does not belong in this thread, and you cannot use that as a fact to lash out at people here.

okay, I'll say this one more time. I did not say it was a fact. I was referencing a theory we were discussing earlier.

I don't want to put anyone on the ignore list. I enjoy reading everyone's opinions, and that is one of the best things about this show. I am just suggesting that you tone down the aggressive assertive nature of your postings, as most of them were based on your own guesswork. Don't bring in theories or "facts" that were not revealed on the show. The "spoilers" thread would be a better place.

If you think a conflicting argument to your own is aggresive you really need to grow up. Argue against a point if you like but suggesting people go away when you don't agree is not something that belongs on this forum. My post wasn't even close to "lashing out." :rolleyes:

Now move off the personal stuff and get back to the show.

Another spoiler removed.

I didn't specifically mention the podcasts on last deletion, so just to make it clear (again) - any information that did not come from the show itself, or the previews immediately following the show, is considered a spoiler.

Please use the Spoilers thread if you want to continue this discussion.

I swore I replied to this thread today....and I swear I didn't include spoilers...

I swore I replied to this thread today....and I swear I didn't include spoilers...

Your post quoted a deleted spoiler and discussed it further.

They are all manifestations of the black smoke. Jack's father? Certainly. And the horse wasn't just any ol' nag; it was Kate's horse (which she recognized), somehow conjured up by the smoke monster. Both Shannon and Sayid saw the dripping apparition of Walt, etc. The polar bear was different because it actually attacked, giving it a level of "interaction" not seen with the other visions (plus we know about the bears being kept in Sawyer's [now Jack's] cage). We've covered all this before...

Nope, I don't buy it. We may have discussed this before, but there has been no explanation given in the show, and anything proposed earlier is just a theory. I agree that with Kate's horse, it probably was the smoke monster, but until someone in the show comes out and says it, then it really could be anything, right? Jack's father could have been Jack hallucinating. I will grant that it could also be the smoke monster. Again, nothing definitive has been stated in the show. The apparition of Walt--we know Walt has powers, he could have projected himself. Or it could have been the smoke monster.

Speaking of interactions--didn't Dave throw a shoe at Hurley? Smoke monster or Hurley's psyche? Again, nothing definitive explained in the show.

So how is it you are so sure everything was the smoke monster?

Your post quoted a deleted spoiler and discussed it further.
heh ok, just so I know I'm not going crazy

So how is it you are so sure everything was the smoke monster?

well I could tell you but every vague reference to it being true keeps getting deleted. :rolleyes:

Including the reference to it made in the Survivor's Guide which aired before this season started.

When I first watched the Desmond England episode I sort of figured his consciousness had been sent back in time but that the end of the episode he had somehow zapped again to the present. But I guess instead it might have been just another flashback and he has always had those memories of the future. So there may be more flashback episodes we haven't seen yet where he confides various things to his girlfriend, talks to Jack in the stadium or whatever, with partial knowledge of future events. This sort of interference could account for some strange coincidences that have not yet been explained, such as broadcasting silly numbers on the radio for Hurley, having a fortune teller manipulate Clair onto the plane, or even drawing Jack by killing his father.

Wierd coincidences are not really improbable if you are creating them with advance knowledge of future events.
I think I get what you're saying. So I guess this means Desmond is either the world's greatest psychic, or he's really getting played. I'm holding out that he's psychic, and the island somehow enhances his ability.

Potential spoiler [or maybe not]..:

Ok, it does seem that the writers are hinting that the manifestations could be the monster itself or might be generated by the island itself.
One interesting thing to consider is .. "Is 'Smokey' the creation of the island itself" to correct the glitch and that the island might be using the manifestations and"Smokey-the sentinel" as a way to restore cosmic balance?

Continuing the "epiphanies and manifestations are a byproduct of the glitch in the matrix caused by the events on the island" theory, could it be that "Smokey - the sentinel" could be a mechanism created by "the incident" on the island to correct the "glitch" - and to restore normalcy to the space-time continuum? Could Smokey be using manifestations and "brain scans" to check out the "specimens" marked for deletion?

People elsewhere on the interweb have theorized that during the pilot of Season-1 when Jack wakes up amidst the bushes, that there was sort of an eye pattern in the foliage above him that people have theorized might be Smokey-the sentinel in one of its manifestations. Could it be scanning Jack to see if he were to be dealt with?

"The correction mechanism" due to "the incident" on the island could have used Yemi's "manifestation" to lure Eko away into seclusion, and used "Smokey" to put the beat down on him. Similarly, the island could have used Walt's manifestation to lure Shannon to her death, and again the illusion of "Shannon's dead body" to drive Boone crazy, and "Yemi's manifestation as the dead body in the puddle jumper plane" to ultimately lure Boone to his death-trap.

In the events where the manifestations don't result in a direct "brain scan" or a "beat down", but in a mere manifestation to the subjects, it could be a way of influencing future actions of the subject in a way that would ultimately normalize the glitches and anomalies.

So, at the end of that rambling session, what I propose is that the manifestations of different people and creatures to the Losties, and Smokey's "brain scans" and "beat down" sessions might just be various ways in which the "powers that be" (the others, or 'the force') seek to deal with the "glitch in the matrix".

The ABC special that aired before this season started literally says that the manifestations are a creation of the island. (Just in case CP thinks that's a spoiler. ;) )

Where it gets vague in the show is if the manifestations are just a form of the smoke, or if the smoke and figures are both forms of something else we haven't seen yet.

Thanks (not sarcastic) that helps. If I see a reference to the website, game, podcast, etc. I just delete as quickly as possible.

Thanks (not sarcastic) that helps. If I see a reference to the website, game, podcast, etc. I just delete as quickly as possible.

What helps?

Letting me know that a continuing topic of discussion from a post that was deleted was from a show that aired and not part of the spoiler discussion.

The apparition of Walt--we know Walt has powers, he could have projected himself. Or it could have been the smoke monster.

Speaking of interactions--didn't Dave throw a shoe at Hurley? Smoke monster or Hurley's psyche? Again, nothing definitive explained in the show.

So how is it you are so sure everything was the smoke monster?


Not to nitpick...but nothing in the show proved that Walt had powers either. There were definitely some strange things going on around Walt...but there was no proof that he has powers.

Not to nitpick...but nothing in the show proved that Walt had powers either. There were definitely some strange things going on around Walt...but there was no proof that he has powers.

i think one of the early flashbacks clearly showed that he had powers. i'm sure someone else remembers it more clearly than i do.

The ABC special that aired before this season started literally says that the manifestations are a creation of the island. (Just in case CP thinks that's a spoiler. ;) )

Where it gets vague in the show is if the manifestations are just a form of the smoke, or if the smoke and figures are both forms of something else we haven't seen yet.


or maybe the smoke is one thing that the island makes and the other manifestations are another?

maybe like the ying and yang? Good and evil? We know he smoke kills people- do the manifestations?

In order to make sense it seems we might have to consider two departures from our normal expectations.

1) Some people exist with the capability of (or vulnerability to) somehow receiving information from the future, or multiple possible futures. This can lead to actions causing wierd coincidences and generally fracking around with the normal order of things. It is unclear if there are multiple competing groups here.

2) Some unexplained force with the apparent desire and sometimes power to not have the normal order of things messed with, possibly because one of those possible futures is very bad. This force sometimes manifests as or controls Smokey and was referred to once as a 'security system'.

I think most other events are consistant with the above, though don't prove it.

- Tom

The writers have solved the Walt "problem" by just writing him out of the show. There's little to be gained by finding out the source or details of his powers if he never returns.

i think one of the early flashbacks clearly showed that he had powers. i'm sure someone else remembers it more clearly than i do.

I remember someone (his mother/babysitter?) warning Michael that he was different. And another occasion where he killed a bird in Omen style.

There was definitely weird stuff going on his flashbacks.

We also saw Walt communicating by computer as well. I always thought that those words never appeared on the screen and it was just an image Walt sent to Michael telepathically.

The reason? During the instruction film we are told that you can only input with the keyboard during the last minute warning, when you are supposed to enter numbers. Michael clearly typed away when the computer keyboard was supposed to be locked out.

We know he smoke kills people- do the manifestations?

So the manifestations would be like a passive form of the monster?

As we all know ... passive smoke kills! :D

I remember someone (his mother/babysitter?) warning Michael that he was different. And another occasion where he killed a bird in Omen style.

There was definitely weird stuff going on his flashbacks.

We also saw Walt communicating by computer as well. I always thought that those words never appeared on the screen and it was just an image Walt sent to Michael telepathically.

The reason? During the instruction film we are told that you can only input with the keyboard during the last minute warning, when you are supposed to enter numbers. Michael clearly typed away when the computer keyboard was supposed to be locked out.


"Different" could mean a lot of things...The bird could have been shot by a neighbor kid with a bb gun. I did agree there was weird things going on, but nothing that proved that he has powers.

I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of things we don't know, and many assumptions. Some are more likely than others, but very little (of the current items we are discussing) has been proved one way or the other.

I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of things we don't know, and many assumptions. Some are more likely than others, but very little (of the current items we are discussing) has been proved one way or the other.Understatement of the year. What exactly do we know? Ummm, nothing. How about "very little (of anything we've ever discussed about this show) has been proved one way or the other"? OK, maybe some of the characters are dead. At least we think they are, but it's only been proven because we know from sources other than the show that they've moved on to different projects.

Evangeline Lilly on GMA this morning.

Evangeline Lilly on GMA this morning.

how'd my wife look?

how'd my wife look?

Pretty good, that's the good news. The bad news is that your kid has big, furry feet. :D

I know of no existence of said child and claim no responsibility ;)

The writers have solved the Walt "problem" by just writing him out of the show. There's little to be gained by finding out the source or details of his powers if he never returns.


the only problem with that is it's like a Gilligan's Island episode then. If Walt and Michael got free then why didn't they send help?

People can make an argument that Michael will be afriad to tell becasue he killed people. But there is no proof he did, and it's not like they wouldn't have to make up a new life anyhow if they get back to tthe real world. How is he going to explain that they are the only surviivors and that he has a boat? There's going to be some stroy telling anyway so why wouldn't he send help and then go on with his new life anyhow?

So the manifestations would be like a passive form of the monster?

As we all know ... passive smoke kills! :D


darn that second hand smoke!

the only problem with that is it's like a Gilligan's Island episode then. If Walt and Michael got free then why didn't they send help?

People can make an argument that Michael will be afriad to tell becasue he killed people. But there is no proof he did, and it's not like they wouldn't have to make up a new life anyhow if they get back to tthe real world. How is he going to explain that they are the only surviivors and that he has a boat? There's going to be some stroy telling anyway so why wouldn't he send help and then go on with his new life anyhow?

We may never find out whether or not they made it to civilization. In that case, they wouldn't need to explain anything.

We may never find out whether or not they made it to civilization. In that case, they wouldn't need to explain anything.


oh- you think we're all going to drop it soeasily- LOL.

People will want an explanation of why didn't they make it. (Unless for a fact we find that they did make it) :)

I wonder if maybe they filmed the scenes explaining what happened to walt and Michael before they were let go and when the show is about ready to wrap up if they will break out that film to explain what happened. The writers keep saying they know the end game so maybe they planned to explain that towards the end? Just wondering...

I wonder if maybe they filmed the scenes explaining what happened to walt and Michael before they were let go and when the show is about ready to wrap up if they will break out that film to explain what happened. The writers keep saying they know the end game so maybe they planned to explain that towards the end? Just wondering...

I have no doubt they will revisit Michael and Walt as they make their "escape", just not sure it will happen this season.

Walt and Michael's last radio contact with the Others said that they had run out of gas and were rapidly taking on water. 45 minutes later, they lost radar contact.

;)

I wonder if maybe they filmed the scenes explaining what happened to walt and Michael before they were let go and when the show is about ready to wrap up if they will break out that film to explain what happened.
If they didn’t, then they're going to have to explain how Walt got to be 6’3” in such a short time. ;)

If they didn’t, then they're going to have to explain how Walt got to be 6’3” in such a short time. ;)

Or just re-cast him. If they wait long enough, nobody will remember what he looked like anyway. :)

when Walt and Michael reach the mainland they will have nothing. No clothes, home, money ...

This would be a good opportunity to do a TV version of the Will Smith movie, The Pursuit of Happyness. An out of work engineer and his son struggle on the streets to rebuild their life. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll see Walt do weird things, Michael haunted by the murders (and possibly victims), odd numbers appearing everywhere and cameos from some of the relations of the Losties.

Why do I believe that Walt and Michael's "escape" will be a re-write of the Patrick McGoohan in The Prisoner Episode 7.

when Walt and Michael reach the mainland they will have nothing. No clothes, home, money ...

This would be a good opportunity to do a TV version of the Will Smith movie, The Pursuit of Happyness. An out of work engineer and his son struggle on the streets to rebuild their life. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll see Walt do weird things, Michael haunted by the murders (and possibly victims), odd numbers appearing everywhere and cameos from some of the relations of the Losties.


lol

Evangeline Lilly on GMA this morning.

I only caught the end but why did the weather guy shake her hand so much?

The other thing, couldn't they have at least given her a chair during the interview!? Maybe it was due to the news anchor coming back (OT - he seemed rather good for 13 months).

She also didn't say anything besides the clip of the show. The Lost guests never seem to say much do they? At least tonight I will get to see Letterman in HD, shame we only get GMA in 4:3 here but only a few hours after the original airing (at 4:30am though).

I think its certainly a possibility that Walt, Michael, Penelope and/or her people may pay a visit to Lost island in a future season. If Walt and Michael's escape from the island is allowed to stand as-is, I will consider that to be a woefully inadequate resolution to one of the major plot-lines of Lost's 2nd season. IIRC, the others said "they'd gotten all they needed out of studying Walt". Well I want to know just why they kidnapped Walt and just what they learned from studying him. And, where's the BLIC (black lady in charge) off to?

Is it a new EP tonight?









Oh yeah.... that's right :D. Sorry..... was just feeling a little nostalgic there for a second.


ron

Or just re-cast him. If they wait long enough, nobody will remember what he looked like anyway. :)

Just like a soap opera->

“from now on the part of the psycho lesbian kleptomaniac narcissistic pathological liar will be played by Bob Smith.”

Just like a soap opera->

“from now on the part of the psycho lesbian kleptomaniac narcissistic pathological liar will be played by Bob Smith.”
I love that character. However, Bill Jones was much better in the role....

Strange. Hurley's popy called him Hugo; I thought Sawyer dubbed him that. And ol' Cheech should've had his chest-hairs dyed.

That was frickin hilarious. Chicken shack.

I knew it was a throwaway episode going into it, but I have to admit I was surprised by how much I enjoyed this one. Nothing got resolved, but I think they at least got into touch with some aspect of the show that we were missing. The sight of Hurley and Charlie as a team again was great, and the way they faced death/fate was really nice.

It really reinforced the way I feel about this show: I don't mind if it takes it's sweet time revealing it's mysteries, my only apprehension is how impatient others may get, perhaps to the point of walking away and causing the show to get dropped. It's not like we can influence millions of people, but if we could I would only say "Relax, enjoy the ride. It beats the crap out of American Idol"

Tonights show was fantastic! I loved it when Hugo called Sawyer a redneck ;)

Great to see Rousseau back too...love her character.

Now what happened to Sun being pregnant?

Strange. Hurley's popy called him Hugo; I thought Sawyer dubbed him that. And ol' Cheech should've had his chest-hairs dyed.
Hugo is is real name.

There are going to be a lot of haters of this episode...I can feel it...but I thought it was awesome and is going to setup the rest of the season...

So many great Sawyer one-liners...haha there must have been 20+

"Well, look at that! Somebody's hooked on phonics!"

----------

"Skeletor seems to like it. Bottoms up!"

Jumbotron! :)

Is Tricia Tenaka the name of the reporter usually shown in 'Family Guy'?

Sawyer teaching Jin english and the International house of pancakes line killed me. LOL

Jumbotron! :)

Is Tricia Tenaka the name of the reporter usually shown in 'Family Guy'?

You're thinking of asian reporter Tricia Takanawa. :)

Yup, it was cute, it was fun, it was pointless.

Terrible. An extreme amount of backstory filler. Cheech served no purpose at all (and I like Cheech); totally pointless and boring. I didn't see anything new or revelational. It didn't even get interesting until the very last act.

Terrible. An extreme amount of backstory filler. Cheech served no purpose at all (and I like Cheech); totally pointless and boring. I didn't see anything new or revelational. It didn't even get interesting until the very last act.

welcome to season 1 episode 2

There are going to be a lot of haters of this episode...I can feel it...but I thought it was awesome and is going to setup the rest of the season...

So many great Sawyer one-liners...haha there must have been 20+

Oh yeah - I thought the episode was hillarious. Hurley had some good ones, too.



"Easy, there, Snuffy"

"Well, look who's all into Hooked On Phonics"

.....................

"Dude, Roger was on a beer run...."

......................

"Why would I help you?"

"Because there's beer..."

......................

"What's a head doing back here?!"

"Oh, that's just Roger..."

.......................

"The mystic arts are not subject to bribery."

"$10,000."

"Your Dad put me up to it..."

......................

"Stop feeling sorry for yourself because someone told you you're gonna die!"

......................

"What's your problem Jumbotron?"

"Shut up...red...neck...man..."

"...Touche..."

"Roger Workman"

"Thats not his name!"

I was LOLing

Terrible. An extreme amount of backstory filler. Cheech served no purpose at all (and I like Cheech); totally pointless and boring. I didn't see anything new or revelational. It didn't even get interesting until the very last act.

Yep, total 100% filler.

And the only episode of this season that I thought was actually entertaining, not full of pretentious melodrama and gave screen time to characters I actually give a damn about. Did it reveal any mysteries or advance the plot dramatically? Nope. but then again I could write on a postage stamp the sum total of plot advancement over the past seven episodes, so at least this was funny.

The worst part was the fact they gave some more idiotic screen time to the beach mannequins Nikki and Paulo. Nikki can't act, they aren't interesting and I don't want to see them being given pointless reactionary dialog when Claire is stood right next to them and has barely been given a line all this season.

I enjoyed seeing a match up of Sawyer, Jin, Hurley and Charlie. That's not a group config I remember seeing before, as a result there were some great one liners (see above ^ ). to the point where I'm not going to dwell on the fact that Hurley ran inland from the beach and suddenly ended up on top of a huge hill ... :)

I enjoyed it more than any episode this year. It's much better spending time with these characters and being given a break from the ever more depressing and frustrating Jack. Maybe they should just leave him with the Others.

Loved the episode.

But can we say that nothing happened? I felt that Hurley finally broke the curse.

Loved the episode.

But can we say that nothing happened? I felt that Hurley finally broke the curse.

Maybe, but I barely remembered that Hurley thought he was cursed so it didn't make much difference to me. That's assuming he was actually cursed and it wasn't all in his head. Again.

Jack. Maybe they should just leave him with the Others.


Jack just smirked and chuckled mockingly at you.

Now what happened to Sun being pregnant?Good question. Maybe we're supposed to forget about that the way we're supposed to forget about Walt and Michael.

Good question. Maybe we're supposed to forget about that the way we're supposed to forget about Walt and Michael.

Hasn't it only been 2 or 3 weeks in Lost time since they found out?

Hasn't it only been 2 or 3 weeks in Lost time since they found out?

Probably. In the Lost world, it's still the year 2004. They've probably only been on the island for about three or four months.

Anyway, I enjoyed this episode. At this point that's all you can ask for, an entertaining episode. I doubt if the show will ever recapture the level of mystery and intrigue it had in season 1.

I don't mind a filler episode now and then, but I wish it didn't involve Hurley. The fact that he still hasn't lost weight and his constant "dude" really annoy me.

When AI is better than Lost... something's gone rotten on the Island. :D

Now this was a filler episode if there ever was one!

The fundamental problem with Lost is that the tempo is too slow. They need to break from the paradigm of one backstory per episode except for season finales and maybe sweeps week. I'm talking one backstory every other episode, or every third episode, and only if they help to flesh out a character in a significant way, or illuminate a significant plot point. The slow grind is what is driving views away. In this respect (tempo), they should borrow a page from 'Heroes'. If it means the writers run out of island-based plot material sooner, so be it. At least they will still have an audience.

During the instruction film we are told that you can only input with the keyboard during the last minute warning, when you are supposed to enter numbers. Michael clearly typed away when the computer keyboard was supposed to be locked out.

It was my understanding that the numbers had to be entered during the last minute in order to avert the reaction, not that the keyboard was inactive until then. Didn't someone tell someone to refrain from using the computer for anything else?

The fundamental problem with Lost is that the tempo is too slow. ... In this respect (tempo), they should borrow a page from 'Heroes'. If it means the writers run out of island-based plot material sooner, so be it. At least they will still have an audience.

The beauty of Lost is that it a show that is full of mysteries, but still focusses on the characters as much as the mystery. It's more like a novel than a movie in that respect.

maybe...either way the show should end this season.

Nothing got resolved, but I think they at least got into touch with some aspect of the show that we were missing.

Character.

What made lost different from other shows on tv (when it was great the first two seasons) was that the flashbacks gave us insight into the characters. They were more developed that way. It was not some indescribable sense of mystery - it was the character development.

The flashbacks this season have been pretty shy of that (other than Locke's). Juliette's was more about plot than character (it told us how she came to the island, not how she became who she was). Jack's tattoo flashback answered a question not as many people cared about as the producers thought, but told us nothing more about his character.

Last night, they had a character focused episode for only the second time this season. I loved it.

a complete waste of time.

a complete waste of time.


I agree!!!! I've been giving this show too many opportunities since the Fall Break, and none of the shows have done a thing for me.

This show has now become one I'll record and watch over the Summer during reruns. I no longer am excited to see this show like I am with "Heroes" and "Friday Night Lights". But, giving credit where credit is due......I loved the first 2 seasons of LOST, and who knows if Heroes and Friday Night Lights can remain one of my favorites after the 1st season.

I thought it was funny as hell. Sawyer owned the ep. Besides, the closing credits promise answers :).

Don't forget the map found in the truck. That could be useful. As to whether they ever built the roads on the map we'll see but the map could be used in a future episode for a road trip/escape, etc.

...the closing credits promise answers :).

Don't they always! :)

Strange. Hurley's popy called him Hugo; I thought Sawyer dubbed him that. And ol' Cheech should've had his chest-hairs dyed.


Cheech is getting on in years, ain't he? :-)

And Hugo Reyes is Hurley's real name, always has been. Did we ever find out where he got the nickname 'Hurley'?

a complete waste of time.

Somehow I knew this was coming.

That was frickin hilarious. Chicken shack.

I laughed so hard I almost cried...that was funny stuff.

An obvious filler episode but it got back to the core of Lost, and that is characters we care about and who interact well. Sawyer, Jin, Charlie, and Hurley need more screen time together.

It was my understanding that the numbers had to be entered during the last minute in order to avert the reaction, not that the keyboard was inactive until then. Didn't someone tell someone to refrain from using the computer for anything else?

Yes. It was part of the instructional video.

Jack just smirked and chuckled mockingly at you.

No, his eyes teared up, his face scrunched up in pain, and he looked at him imploringly and said "WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME!!!!????"

I keep reading posts about "filler" episodes not only for Lost, but also for Battlestar Galactica and Jericho.

I'm not sure that these series are that much different than the premise for the very old
Wagon Train. If they reached their destination, they were done. So, if we know the island secrets, or if BSG reaches earth, or Jericho tells us too soon who is behind the nukes, that's it.

That's not to say it shouldn't be it. I liked Babylon 5 so much because it was a 4 year story arc (that unfortunately got stretched to 5) that finally was resolved. So, maybe that is the way these others should be treated. However, unless there is a specific end date (and I know the Lost producers have suggested there be one), what we are getting as stories ARE the series. More often than not, stories about people and their reactions to extraordinary circumstances.

It was nice to see characters actually laugh and smile for once. No it didn't "advance the plot" much or at all. No it didn't reveal deep inner character traits. But it was fun, and it was funny, and it focused on some the characters I have missed this season. I doubt you can continue a run of these in a row, but shows that offer some levity and some smiles on this forever grim show definitely get my vote. I liked it. :)

I keep reading posts about "filler" episodes not only for Lost, but also for Battlestar Galactica and Jericho.

I'm not sure that these series are that much different than the premise for the very old
Wagon Train. If they reached their destination, they were done. So, if we know the island secrets, or if BSG reaches earth, or Jericho tells us too soon who is behind the nukes, that's it.

That's not to say it shouldn't be it. I liked Babylon 5 so much because it was a 4 year story arc (that unfortunately got stretched to 5) that finally was resolved. So, maybe that is the way these others should be treated. However, unless there is a specific end date (and I know the Lost producers have suggested there be one), what we are getting as stories ARE the series. More often than not, stories about people and their reactions to extraordinary circumstances.

I'm with you all the way on this. It's not that the people criticizing this season are all misguided, of course, I just don't necssarily agree with all who don't like this season because we don't get all the answers. I do have to say that this is only one part of what might make LOST a compelling or boring show on a given week. The writers could reveal very little or no answers, or reveal a great deal, or anywhere in between on any episode.

On each of those however, the way that particular story is written and executed is far more important than what answer we get. To me the earlier seasons didn't give us significantly more answers per show, they were just written better, more compelling, and executed better ..

I enjoyed it, but do think it was filler as well.

I thought the tease was the bit at the end when Kate recruits Rousseau to take on the others. What happens when the losties start invading the Other's home turf?

I think what we are seeing this season is filler induced by the prospect of an open-ended timeline. I would guess this makes the writers a bit nervous not knowing how much time they have to deal with.

I've seen in interviews where the producers want to complete the series at the end of the 5th season, so if that gets set in stone, I think we will see more directed writing like in the first couple of seasons. There are still a lot of mysteries to solve, and I'm sure new ones we didn't expect to come.

...I'm not sure that these series are that much different than the premise for the very old Wagon Train...

Wagon Train? Man, you're old! (just kidding! :D ) I'd bet very few of us here remember that one. I can see everyone saying "Wagon Train? What the h*ll is Wagon Train?" :)

On each of those however, the way that particular story is written and executed is far more important than what answer we get. To me the earlier seasons didn't give us significantly more answers per show, they were just written better, more compelling, and executed better ..


Amen brother....Amen....

I've seen in interviews where the producers want to complete the series at the end of the 5th season, so if that gets set in stone, I think we will see more directed writing like in the first couple of seasons. There are still a lot of mysteries to solve, and I'm sure new ones we didn't expect to come.

What's funny is that if you look back at the first season, there are a lot of what we now consider "filler" episodes (anyone remember the golf course?) We just didn't really know what the show was about yet, so we didn't view them as filler.

I thought Locke just gave a speech about going to rescue Kate, Sawyer and Jack? When was he planning on getting around to that anyway?

I thought Locke just gave a speach about going to rescue Kate, Sawyer and Jack? When was he planning on getting around to that anyway?

He told Kate they didn't know where to look...

He told Kate they didn't know where to look...

That was confusing. Didn't Sayid say that Locke found a "compass" in the way the sunlight reflected off Eko's stick when he buried him? Was Sayid sarcastic, or didn't Locke follow up on the directions? :confused:

Who else couldnt' help but think of Little Miss Sunshine when they were pushing that VW van. I think even the music might have been a bit similar.

Who else couldnt' help but think of Little Miss Sunshine when they were pushing that VW van. I think even the music might have been a bit similar.

Of course, you could always throw in "Around the Bend", "Paper Moon" and any number of plotlines involving pushing a vehicle.

Besides, anyone who has ever owned a Volkswagon from the 70's or ealier knows full well that push-starting is a documented proper starting procedure for bugs, buses, rabbits, square backs, fast backs and even the occasional Passat or Fox. It kind of runs hand-in-hand with tolerating a lack of real heat and the ability to actually find the mythical gear known as "reverse". It also allows you to understand the "clutch ankle" joke in a VW ad from several years back and appreciate a big, lighted hazzard light switch prominantly displayed on the dash instead of the steering column.

That was confusing. Didn't Sayid say that Locke found a "compass" in the way the sunlight reflected off Eko's stick when he buried him? Was Sayid sarcastic, or didn't Locke follow up on the directions? :confused:

Maybe I misheard him...I'll watch some again tonight.

Besides, anyone who has ever owned a Volkswagon from the 70's or ealier knows full well that push-starting is a documented proper starting procedure for bugs, buses, rabbits, square backs, fast backs and even the occasional Passat or Fox. It kind of runs hand-in-hand with tolerating a lack of real heat and the ability to actually find the mythical gear known as "reverse". It also allows you to understand the "clutch ankle" joke in a VW ad from several years back and appreciate a big, lighted hazzard light switch prominantly displayed on the dash instead of the steering column.

Anyone who's ever done it knows they didn't have to go all the way down the hill before "popping the clutch", but I know it was done for effect.

Incredible scenario all-'round; only on television!

Of course, you could always throw in "Around the Bend", "Paper Moon" and any number of plotlines involving pushing a vehicle.

Besides, anyone who has ever owned a Volkswagon from the 70's or ealier knows full well that push-starting is a documented proper starting procedure for bugs, buses, rabbits, square backs, fast backs and even the occasional Passat or Fox. It kind of runs hand-in-hand with tolerating a lack of real heat and the ability to actually find the mythical gear known as "reverse". It also allows you to understand the "clutch ankle" joke in a VW ad from several years back and appreciate a big, lighted hazzard light switch prominantly displayed on the dash instead of the steering column.

And, you don't need to be going 50 MPH to pop the clutch. Hurley (the writers) sure waited a long time before popping the clutch - to the point of being an over-the-top attempt at building excitement and suspense.
It was an entertaining episode, but as others have said, it sure didn't live up to the previews/commercials (BIG surprise there. :rolleyes:).


Mitch

[hehe, Maxman, great minds think alike. :)]

It was an entertaining episode, but as others have said, it sure didn't live up to the previews/commercials (BIG surprise there. :rolleyes:).



The episode actually exceeded my expectations...it was a blast.

The reunion was pretty lame, however.

And, you don't need to be going 50 MPH to pop the clutch. Hurley (the writers) sure waited a long time before popping the clutch - to the point of being an over-the-top attempt at building excitement and suspense.
It was an entertaining episode, but as others have said, it sure didn't live up to the previews/commercials (BIG surprise there. :rolleyes:).


Mitch

[hehe, Maxman, great minds think alike. :)]


I was yelling at the TV as soon as it started rolling...COME ON, POP IT ALREADY! Anyone who had a VW knows that he probably could have started it while Charlie, Jin and Sawyer were pushing him to the hill.

And, you don't need to be going 50 MPH to pop the clutch. Hurley (the writers) sure waited a long time before popping the clutch - to the point of being an over-the-top attempt at building excitement and suspense.
It was an entertaining episode, but as others have said, it sure didn't live up to the previews/commercials (BIG surprise there. :rolleyes:).


Mitch
Nor do you need a big hill, either. Just the pushing to get TO the hill should have been enough. However, I very much doubt the bus would have started anyway. The gas would have certainly turned to shellac or drained out from the vehicle laying on its side for so long. The beer would have been more likely to be good than the gas. However, the episode wouldn't have been as much fun if they couldn't eventually start the thing.

As far as the rest, I avoid the previews just so I don't have to use this guy: :rolleyes: when I describe how I felt it met up with my expectations. Considering the previews are from ABC's promotional department, it's unwise to expect they'll match up properly with what actually occurs. The job of the producers is to tell a story. The job of the promotional department is to hype something in hopes people will watch. The two are often mutually exclusive. You seem to understand this, though, so it surprises me you continue to watch them.

I think people are forgetting the premise of the show: It's a human drama that explores events in the characters' lives before they came to an island where some weird stuff is going on. The backstories and individual revelations for each character are the show.

That was confusing. Didn't Sayid say that Locke found a "compass" in the way the sunlight reflected off Eko's stick when he buried him? Was Sayid sarcastic, or didn't Locke follow up on the directions? :confused:

Yeah, this confused me also...anyone re-listen to it and figure it out for sure yet?

What does it say about the Dharma folks when a guy can go out in the van on a beer run (where? - to the Dharma -11) and never show back up. Did they not go looking for Robert? I guess they could have never found the van because it was too far off the road (assuming there must be some type of road). Still.

(My posts today are powered by the flu, so take at face value.)

I don't think he said (or meant to imply) that he found a compass, per se, just that he felt that the shadow pointed him in the direction he should go.

He told Kate they didn't know where to look...

He said that he DID know where to look, but he agreed with Kate that he didn't have the motivation to look. Where a couple of weeks ago he was hell bent on rescuing them.

Meh...If the writers can't even figure out what's going on, how can we.

I don't think he said (or meant to imply) that he found a compass, per se, just that he felt that the shadow pointed him in the direction he should go.

I know Sayid used the word "compass" figuratively, but still, if Locke saw a direction from the shadow or the sun's rays' refraction pattern, why would he say to Kate that he "didn't know where to look"? Definitely something fishy there, intentional or otherwise.

One thing I noticed, during the "reunion", was that there's still no sign of Rose or Bernard. Are they completely off the set right now or something?

I think the frustrating part is the producers are making the big climaxes on the show at revelations that we already know about... they ended it with Kate saying "I think she's your daughter." Well, we already all knew that, pretty obvious, yet they built it up to some huge revelation, while all we did was yawn.

I'm not sure that these series are that much different than the premise for the very old
Wagon Train. If they reached their destination, they were done. So, if we know the island secrets, or if BSG reaches earth, or Jericho tells us too soon who is behind the nukes, that's it.



BSG does not need to end when they reach earth. They have so much mystery with the cylons and human political intrigue built up in that series. They could spend a couple of seasons integrating with humanity on earth and a few more going back to retake the colonies and to find the cylon home world and exterminate them.

maybe...either way the show should end this season.
The other option is you could stop watching it this season and let those of us who still enjoy it enjoy it for a bit longer.

And Hugo Reyes is Hurley's real name, always has been. Did we ever find out where he got the nickname 'Hurley'?
Maybe the result of a misguided attempt to lose weight via bulimia?

Wagon Train? Man, you're old! (just kidding! :D ) I'd bet very few of us here remember that one. I can see everyone saying "Wagon Train? What the h*ll is Wagon Train?" :)

Older than dirt.

I was thinking about Wagon Train due to a post on another forum. HDNET Movies had just shown Stand by Me and there is that great scene around the campfire where the boys are discussing the important matters of 12 year old boys, like, "If Pluto's a dog, then what the he** is Goofy???".

Anyway, the Wil Wheaton character says, "Wagon Train's a really cool show, but did you ever notice that they never seem to get anywhere? They just keep 'Wagontraining'". Reminded me of BSG and Lost. So true, so true. :D

All I can say is it's about dang time. That was the best episode of Lost I've seen in a long while, and the most "season 1ish" as well.

I keep reading posts about "filler" episodes not only for Lost, but also for Battlestar Galactica and Jericho.

I'm not sure that these series are that much different than the premise for the very old
Wagon Train. If they reached their destination, they were done. So, if we know the island secrets, or if BSG reaches earth, or Jericho tells us too soon who is behind the nukes, that's it.

That's not to say it shouldn't be it. I liked Babylon 5 so much because it was a 4 year story arc (that unfortunately got stretched to 5) that finally was resolved. So, maybe that is the way these others should be treated. However, unless there is a specific end date (and I know the Lost producers have suggested there be one), what we are getting as stories ARE the series. More often than not, stories about people and their reactions to extraordinary circumstances.

I agree in regards to a show like Lost, but not necessarily Jericho and BSG. Lost is a totally character driven show. It was at its best when the episodes were about the characters with a little bit of mystery mixed in. Since they started trying to focus too much on the story everything (ratings, public opinion, etc) has gone downhill rapidly.

Jericho and BSG on the other hand are more story driven - like the aforementioned Babylon 5 which may tnot have had a single "filler" episode from the end of season 2 through the end of season 4. BSG has always been about the escape from the cylons. Jericho has always been about the nukes. Lost certainly hasn't always been about the others, and especially not nearly to the extent of those other two shows were about their main plot point.

Sure was fortunate that van still had usable gas in it and intact tires after rotting for 20 years in the jungle.

Was the final line about Alex being Rousseau's daughter meant to be a big revelation? Haven't we known that forever?

I enjoyed the episode, especially the dialogue, but unless that van winds up playing a big part in Jack's rescue later this season this ep really didn't advance much of anything for the story.

In case anyone wanted to watch Lilly on Letterman from Tuesday night, you can find it HERE. (http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/02/28/evangeline-lillys-letterman-appearance-video/) Those legs are lookin’ good.

I can't believe Sawyer and Kate make it back to camp and yet no discussion or questions from Locke, Sayid et al about where they were held, about the others, about what when on there.

I think the frustrating part is the producers are making the big climaxes on the show at revelations that we already know about... they ended it with Kate saying "I think she's your daughter." Well, we already all knew that, pretty obvious, yet they built it up to some huge revelation, while all we did was yawn.
You missed the whole impact of the scene, then. We knew it, but Danielle didn't. This gets her motivated to act and we know she's quite the militia lady. Where before we would have the lostaways bumbling about trying to figure out a way to rescue Jack, Danielle has skills. If he can get over her crazy, she and Locke will be quite a team.

That's the revelation: getting her involved, not the reference to Alex. That Alex part was merely bait to bring her in. Now Danielle knows she was right all along. She wan't as looney as we all thought in season 1.

I can't believe Sawyer and Kate make it back to camp and yet no discussion or questions from Locke, Sayid et al about where they were held, about the others, about what when on there.
You apparently missed the big question and answer session between them as Kate was filling her water bottles for her treck. It may have caught you by surprise since it's a rare occurence.

Yup...had a 73 Superbeetle, pushed it a many of times. Have to bump start my motorcycle from time to time when I forget to turn off my heated grips ;)

I cannot stand the two new Losties on the beach. Hate that they all of a sudden show up in the cast, like they have been there all along. Sure hope the producers don't decide to make them main characters. Give us more Locke and Charlie.

I enjoyed the episode, especially the dialogue, but unless that van winds up playing a big part in Jack's rescue later this season this ep really didn't advance much of anything for the story.

I think people forget that this show is as much (or more) about the characters themselves than it is about the island.

The fact that Hurley was able to find hope by driving around for a few minutes may not mean much overall, however, to Hurley it was everything.

He finally thought that he might have been getting some good luck instead of everyone being killed around him, but instead she was shot and killed. His friends were kidnapped and the man who killed them walked off the island.

Hurley just needed something to make him feel good (as did Charlie). Sawyer was down in the dumps over Kate and Jin had been arguing with Sun. Everyone came back happy and refreshed. Morale can play a big part when it comes to battle/survival.

I can suspend disbelief with the best of 'em- nanobot monsters, polar bears, dead people - but you rarely find dried up mummies in the tropics.

i like how hurley referred to the newsreader using her full first and last name -- even when he was speaking directly to her.

...

Was the final line about Alex being Rousseau's daughter meant to be a big revelation? Haven't we known that forever?

...

Well, yes of course WE knew it, but SHE didn't because she hasn't been keeping up with the episodes and this forum. :D

Seriously, from the promos this was supposed to be the one we were all talking about. Technically we are, trying to figure out what it was we are supposed to have seen to be talking about. Maybe it was the meteor, or asteroid [...or whatever].

Yup...had a 73 Superbeetle, pushed it a many of times. Have to bump start my motorcycle from time to time when I forget to turn off my heated grips ;)...

I kept thinking of Woody Allen's movie Sleeper where he digs up an old VW and is surprised that it still runs.

I had a '69 Beetle in college and it really didn't take much pushing to get that puppy started.

as usual Sawyer had some killer lines,"Looks like someone's hooked on Phonics!"

Hurley just needed something to make him feel good (as did Charlie). Sawyer was down in the dumps over Kate and Jin had been arguing with Sun. Everyone came back happy and refreshed. Morale can play a big part when it comes to battle/survival.

it was season three's golf course.

It was my understanding that the numbers had to be entered during the last minute in order to avert the reaction, not that the keyboard was inactive until then. Didn't someone tell someone to refrain from using the computer for anything else?

I remember Locke demonstrating this. Someone said something like "why don't we send a message" and Locke tapped on the keyboard to show nothing would happen until the last minute.

That's not to say it shouldn't be it. I liked Babylon 5 so much because it was a 4 year story arc (that unfortunately got stretched to 5) that finally was resolved. So, maybe that is the way these others should be treated.

B5 originally was a five year arc, it got squeezed to four when it was going to get canceled only to get a last minute reprieve. By then the changes had been made and it screwed everything up for the last season.

as usual Sawyer had some killer lines,"Looks like someone's hooked on Phonics!"

My favorite line in the movie was Cheech's:

"What's with the headphones?
"to drown out the noise
"your mom is a passionate woman

What makes it better is that mom put her fingers over the ears of the gold statue when she said she had "needs." I immediately pictured a mini set of headphones on the statue when Cheech said that line.

Seriously, from the promos this was supposed to be the one we were all talking about.


I'll give ya that...forgot about that one. But you can blame that on the marketing department, not the producers.

IMHO the way the show is going and the way ratings are falling, I hope I haven't wasted my time on this series. If HBO and other networks can drop really good serialized shows like "Rome" and "Deadwood" like a hot potato, at what point will ABC drop this? I really think this show needs to start working toward an end and maybe before next season.

I'll give ya that...forgot about that one. But you can blame that on the marketing department, not the producers.

Just as the episode ended, I was saying "those sons of bitches !! When will they ever stop ??" in my mind, trying to figure out how they could lie so blatantly promising this episode to be "the one everybody would be talking about next day". :rolleyes:

I hope there is a channel to get to the ABC suits that this trend of lying to the viewers has more negative impact than positive benefits.