I hope there is a channel to get to the ABC suits that this trend of lying to the viewers has more negative impact than positive benefits.

If you read Fredfa's HotP thread you may have seen this ABC trend (and the complaints it's getting) reproted at Broadcasting and Cable. I learned back in Season 2 that Lost promo's are BS, and should be ingored.

Maybe ABC have learned their lesson after the Jack's tattoo's incident. find out next week!

I can't believe Sawyer and Kate make it back to camp and yet no discussion or questions from Locke, Sayid et al about where they were held, about the others, about what when on there.Right. It started off so promising; Hurley actually discussing island incidents. Then, the sudden pullback-reveal to discover he's talking to a dead person (Libby). After which, the episode went downhill faster than that junk-beetle. Why won't these people collaborate and compare notes? Are they playing a secret game of Survivor? Or is it Jump the Shark?
:mad:

Seriously, from the promos this was supposed to be the one we were all talking about. Technically we are, trying to figure out what it was we are supposed to have seen to be talking about. Maybe it was the meteor, or asteroid [...or whatever].

In their defense, we are doing a lot of talking about it....

Right. It started off so promising; Hurley actually discussing island incidents. Then, the sudden pullback-reveal to discover he's talking to a dead person (Libby). After which, the episode went downhill faster than that junk-beetle. Why won't these people collaborate and compare notes? Are they playing a secret game of Survivor? Or is it Jump the Shark?
:mad:

As I already said earlier, Locke and Sayid DID grill Kate about the stuff. She said "I don't know" to some of it, but answered some questions, too. At the end, she slyly said "you'll have to ask him about that" in response to their final question.

In fact, Kate seems to be becoming the conduit for both asking and answering questions of other people. She's our "in".

Don't forget the map found in the truck. That could be useful. As to whether they ever built the roads on the map we'll see but the map could be used in a future episode for a road trip/escape, etc.Now we know those Dharma Initiative guy's liked their beer too... add some NFL Football and it's just like being home. :D

I enjoyed the episode, especially the dialogue, but unless that van winds up playing a big part in Jack's rescue later this season this ep really didn't advance much of anything for the story.
Well, Volkswagon bugs are known to float. I'm not sure if the buses do, though...

I was hoping to see Hurley drive the thing onto the beach and camp out in it.

He didn't need to wait until the last minute to pop the clutch - but what was really funny was how it when from 75mph to about 25mph in about a second. :)

He didn't need to wait until the last minute to pop the clutch -I thought the same thing. It also wouldnt have ran after the gas gumming everything up for years and years. I also thought the name and title on the skeletons jump suit was a bit silly. And how could Kate not know there was another boat? We all saw it when they were leaving the island.

Now we know those Dharma Initiative guy's liked their beer too... add some NFL Football and it's just like being home. :D

They used to have the hatch...take a shower, cook, eat some food off of real dishes, sit on the couch and maybe listen to some music. It's a wonder all the Losties don't gang up and kill Locke for losing the hatch! :p

I thought the same thing. It also wouldnt have ran after the gas gumming everything up for years and years. I also thought the name and title on the skeletons jump suit was a bit silly. And how could Kate not know there was another boat? We all saw it when they were leaving the island.

She had already left the other island at that point.

IMHO the way the show is going and the way ratings are falling, I hope I haven't wasted my time on this series. If HBO and other networks can drop really good serialized shows like "Rome" and "Deadwood" like a hot potato, at what point will ABC drop this? I really think this show needs to start working toward an end and maybe before next season.

Don't forget Carnivale...

Don't forget Carnivale...

...oooh! I forgot about that one!



Sorry. I couldn't resist. ;)

I'm just glad they finished the first third of the story line to have at least some form of conclusion to the storyline. Obviously, it wasn't fully resolved, but the ending we saw worked as an ending. Now, Daybreak, on the other hand....

They used to have the hatch...take a shower, cook, eat some food off of real dishes, sit on the couch and maybe listen to some music. It's a wonder all the Losties don't gang up and kill Locke for losing the hatch! :pEh, keying in those numbers all of the time would drive me "nuts" too! :D

I enjoyed the ep; but then, I enjoy them all. Hurley-centric episodes are always fun. It is sad to see Rose and Bernard essentially written out of the show and regulars like Sayid and Claire and even Locke reduced to bit players all the while bringing in "fresh meat" like Nikki and Paulo. Perhaps they felt they needed to bring in new characters to freshen up and energize the show. I attribute it to running out of interesting and relevant backstories for the main characters. Lindelof mentioned increasing importance to those new characters, so I suspect we'll start seeing episodes, and backstories, involving them as soon as this Other situation with Jack is resolved.

Since Rose and Bernard are played by somewhat accomplished actors who are presumably in demand elsewhere, perhaps the producers feel it unfair to them to keep them in Hawaii under contract to appear, essentially, as background filler every third or fourth episode. So, they only bring them in when they have an essential part in that episode's plot (a rare occurence).

all the while bringing in "fresh meat" like Nikki and Paulo. Perhaps they felt they needed to bring in new characters to freshen up and energize the show. I attribute it to running out of interesting and relevant backstories for the main characters. Lindelof mentioned increasing importance to those new characters, so I suspect we'll start seeing episodes, and backstories, involving them as soon as this Other situation with Jack is resolved.

As soon as they bring Nikki and Paulo to the forefront of the show, I'll be tuning out. To me they seem like party crashers. Can't stand that they are "suddenly" there with the rest of the cast like they have been there for all 3 seasons. Bad mistake on ABC's part.

As soon as they bring Nikki and Paulo to the forefront of the show, I'll be tuning out. To me they seem like party crashers. Can't stand that they are "suddenly" there with the rest of the cast like they have been there for all 3 seasons. Bad mistake on ABC's part.

To give the producers credit, they stated back in Season 1 that they would do something like this...I guess they just didn't realize how negative the response would be. They get it now, and it's my understanding that they have a plan for these two, but to say anything else would be spoilerish.

My favorite line in the movie was Cheech's:

"What's with the headphones?
"to drown out the noise
"your mom is a passionate woman

What makes it better is that mom put her fingers over the ears of the gold statue when she said she had "needs." I immediately pictured a mini set of headphones on the statue when Cheech said that line.

Hmmm, so are we to infer from all this that Hurley is a Jesus-figure?

Dun - dun - DUN!

Let the Lost discussion begin! :D

I liked the episode too. It was fun. Agree with the "others" though that not much was accomplished and I cringed everytime the new losties were in scene.

Oh, and btw, Hurley was driving all over their golf course. I guess golfing lost its allure once they lost all their golf balls in the extensive brush.

As soon as they bring Nikki and Paulo to the forefront of the show, I'll be tuning out. To me they seem like party crashers. Can't stand that they are "suddenly" there with the rest of the cast like they have been there for all 3 seasons. Bad mistake on ABC's part.

My hope is that they are building them up only to kill them off later. That way, they won't have to sacrifice one of the regulars to have a dramatic death scene.

My hope is that they are building them up only to kill them off later. That way, they won't have to sacrifice one of the regulars to have a dramatic death scene.
Maybe they'll be hit by a meteor....or an astroid. I forget which is which.... ;)

Does anybody think the selection of the song that came to life when the VW started has any significance? It was a 3 Dog Night song with the words " on the road to Shangrila". Perhaps the island was suppose to be heaven for the Dharma people.

The name of the song is Shambala.


"How does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?".

These thoughts crossed my mind:

The map they found in the car is going to lead them to The Others' village (maybe they will get there in the VW).

Nikki and Paulo are Others spys and will get killed off.

Nikki and Paulo are Others spys and will get killed off.

That's an interesting possibility but wouldn't they have shown up with Ethan when Hurley did his initial flight manifest search?

Does anybody think the selection of the song that came to life when the VW started has any significance? It was a 3 Dog Night song with the words " on the road to Shangrila". Perhaps the island was suppose to be heaven for the Dharma people.

It's the same song that was playing in his childhood while getting ready to work on the car.

Gotta love that 8-Track cameo...haven't seen one in ages. :-)

That's an interesting possibility but wouldn't they have shown up with Ethan when Hurley did his initial flight manifest search?
Maybe they were intended to be backups if the Plan A failed. Their job was to hang back and act as "sleeper cell" agents until called upon to act.

Perhaps they've undergone some brainwashing in the form of what we saw a couple episodes back and don't even know they work for Dharma.

Maybe they were intended to be backups if the Plan A failed. Their job was to hang back and act as "sleeper cell" agents until called upon to act.

Perhaps they've undergone some brainwashing in the form of what we saw a couple episodes back and don't even know they work for Dharma.

So, you're saying they were actually on Flight 815?

If not, we still have the problem of their not being on the flight manifest...i.e. what caught Ethan.

So, you're saying they were actually on Flight 815?

If not, we still have the problem of their not being on the flight manifest...i.e. what caught Ethan.
Or maybe the real Nikki and Paulo are dead somewhere. The manifest has names, but not faces.

As soon as they bring Nikki and Paulo to the forefront of the show, I'll be tuning out. To me they seem like party crashers. Can't stand that they are "suddenly" there with the rest of the cast like they have been there for all 3 seasons. Bad mistake on ABC's part.
How terribly narrow-minded. So two new minor characters have ruined the show for you? As others have said, it's always been the writers plan to highlight new characters even as they kill off old ones. There are 40+ (or whatever number) survivors and they can't all be used at once.

They've introduced new characters before and it has come off fine. These two have been awkwardly introduced and it seems to be continuing. I don't think it's the fact they're new so much as how they're characterized.

I kept thinking of Woody Allen's movie Sleeper where he digs up an old VW and is surprised that it still runs
Good, wasn't just me. I was expecting it to start right up. They really knew how to build those things!

Or maybe the real Nikki and Paulo are dead somewhere. The manifest has names, but not faces.

That's possible, but would be hard to pull off.

Would explain why they stand out so much in some scenes though, as well as some of their strange behavior ("let's tag along on this expedition!" "hey, what are all these monitors for?" etc).

Their ending would also be met with satisfaction by many in this thread. :)

Don't the two new people know what happens to those who abruptly crash the Lost "inner circle" of characters? See Arzt, Leslie.

Don't the two new people know what happens to those who abruptly crash the Lost "inner circle" of characters? See Arzt, Leslie.

Let's hope Paulo hits an explosive golf ball.....

"Dude, you've got some Paulo on you...."

I think in Paulo's backstory, we'll find out he was a Latin Soap Opera star on his way to an audition in LA.

I think in Paulo's backstory, we'll find out he was a Latin Soap Opera star on his way to an audition in LA.

Actually he was probably willing to work at any station in any capacity . So he will have applied at channel 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42. While looking for a job, he runs into Richard Hatch and accidentally blows him up somehow.

He thinks he has a lock on a job playing a surgeon, but that falls through. He then applies for role in a production of Kiss Me Kate and a musical adaption of Tom Sawyer, but doesn't get either.

In his spare time, he writes a sci-fi novel and wins a Hugo award for it.

With the royalties, he checks into a fancy hotel that has a pool. While catching some sun, reading a work of Rousseau and sipping some gin, then runs into an out of work musician named Charlie who tries to sell him some heroin. He refuses.

He checks out of the hotel and buys a ticket to Australia in search of his long lost sister Claire. He doesn't find her, so he decides to take flight 815. During the crash, he gets amnesia so he doesn't remember anything about his past. He is but an echo of his former self. One day he goes into the jungle alone and the smoke monster/security system/pissed off giraffe kills him. Nobody notices he is missing. Nobody cares.

I'm definitely in the smallest of majorities: I actually thought it was funny as hell when Nikki and Paulo went along for one little adventure. I don't want any flashbacks of them or anything, but I thought it was a clever acknowledgement about the way the 'stars' have all the adventure and the rest of the background people just mill around eating fruit. Similar to Arzt crying about how he wanted to be part of the cool crowd and do something. Just the way they were very average and normal in the middle of a bizarre situation sort of tickled my funnybone.

They don't bother me either. In fact, I recall many posts early on where people were complaining that there were ~40 survivors, yet everything was being done/experienced by only a small handful of people.

It would have been better for them to get everyone together for one of their big announcements looking for volunteers for something, etc. and slowly introduce more of these characters - but they have logistical issues with commiting to a large pool of specific actors that may not be needed for a season or two.

Since the whole Tailees tangent has turned out to be somewhat of a dead end, it might be interesting to have an episode or two focused on the other 30 survivors on the main beach from the crash up to this point. They could add another half dozen major characters that way. They could also be a "normal" group that get together and share everything they know and have learned up to this point. Maybe even find out that they have established contact with DHARMA and have coordinated regular supply drops and got the deactivate code for the island security system so they can freely explore the island in their DHARMA-issued jeep. Information the regulars would find invaluable, they just never bothered asking any of the "redshirters". ;)

I do have to admit though the way they introduced Nikki and Paulo was a little unnatural - kinda like when the Itchy & Scratchy Show introduced that "hip" dog character voiced by Homer.

I do have to admit though the way they introduced Nikki and Paulo was a little unnatural - kinda like when the Itchy & Scratchy Show introduced that "hip" dog character voiced by Homer.



VERY awkward indeed...why they couldn't have gradually worked them in I don't know, it's not as if they've been an integral part of the story thus far anyway.

They don't bother me either. In fact, I recall many posts early on where people were complaining that there were ~40 survivors, yet everything was being done/experienced by only a small handful of people.

It would have been better for them to get everyone together for one of their big announcements looking for volunteers for something, etc. and slowly introduce more of these characters - but they have logistical issues with commiting to a large pool of specific actors that may not be needed for a season or two.

Since the whole Tailees tangent has turned out to be somewhat of a dead end, it might be interesting to have an episode or two focused on the other 30 survivors on the main beach from the crash up to this point. They could add another half dozen major characters that way. They could also be a "normal" group that get together and share everything they know and have learned up to this point. Maybe even find out that they have established contact with DHARMA and have coordinated regular supply drops and got the deactivate code for the island security system so they can freely explore the island in their DHARMA-issued jeep. Information the regulars would find invaluable, they just never bothered asking any of the "redshirters". ;)

I do have to admit though the way they introduced Nikki and Paulo was a little unnatural - kinda like when the Itchy & Scratchy Show introduced that "hip" dog character voiced by Homer.

What would be a fun project for a rainy day for someone with the complete series on DVD is to find out if the no name survivors we see in Season 3 are the same ones from Season 1 and 2.

Hurley-centric episodes are always fun.Yes, they usually are. But I didn't think we needed another flashback of him at this point. As was, it didn't seem to reveal anything previously unknown. Hurley's mamacita and popy already looked quite old 20 years ago, or however long that was. Yes, they are hilarious, but it would have been way more interesting if either of them showed up (as a vision) on the island, instead.

I guess Hugo was supposed to gain redemption or something by getting the van up and running, but (for myself) it turned out to be very anti-climactic. And I realize every ep can't be great, but the show went from one extreme to the other after a very good Desmond episode last week.

They don't bother me either. In fact, I recall many posts early on where people were complaining that there were ~40 survivors, yet everything was being done/experienced by only a small handful of people.

It would have been better for them to get everyone together for one of their big announcements looking for volunteers for something, etc. and slowly introduce more of these characters - but they have logistical issues with commiting to a large pool of specific actors that may not be needed for a season or two.


There are too many established characters being vastly underused to justify sticking two blocks of wood in front of the camera. The purpose of which was to provide new flashback ammo.

The creators have painted themselves into a corner with the essential flashback content, so that they now feel the need to introduce new characters to provide content. I don't want new characters, I want better writing. They've already shown that you can break from the flashback formula in previous seasons. They should be using that plot device more creatively instead of just throwing faces at the camera to give them ideas for back stories. If they can't think of a suitable story for the flashback then drop it, and concentrate on a second present day story for that episode to progress the other plots along.

Nikki and Paulo should vanish into the pool of extras, and the only time they get to speak is when a crowd scene necessitates it.

In the meantime ... Bernard, Rose, Claire and Sayid need some camera time.

A hot waterfall shower scene with Nikki will chaange many opinions

A hot waterfall shower scene with Nikki will chaange many opinions

if there's another airplane teetering on the edge of it at the time it will!

Gotta love that 8-Track cameo...haven't seen one in ages. :-)

I actually still have one (a Pioneer home deck), but it hasn't been hooked up in ages. And I fondly remember my Craig PowerPlay.

It's the same song that was playing in his childhood while getting ready to work on the car.

Gotta love that 8-Track cameo...haven't seen one in ages. :-)

And anyone that knows how they work knows there is no way the tape would have not lost the back lubrication which allows it to work after 25-30 years in the open enviroment of a tropical island.

A cassette would have atleast been more believable - but still a far fetch.

You guys gotta have faith and believe. That's what started the car and let the 8-track work. :D

You guys gotta have faith and believe. That's what started the car and let the 8-track work. :D

True. We have no problem believing that a Smoke Monster can whomp you to death, but a functioning 8-track? Too far fetched.... :D

As soon as they bring Nikki and Paulo to the forefront of the show, I'll be tuning out. To me they seem like party crashers. Can't stand that they are "suddenly" there with the rest of the cast like they have been there for all 3 seasons. Bad mistake on ABC's part.What's wrong with Nikki? There is always room for more eye candy. ;) Did you notice the little tug on the back of her shorts?

What's wrong with Nikki? There is always room for more eye candy. ;) Did you notice the little tug on the back of her shorts?

Totally wasted at that camera angle. :sigh:

You guys gotta have faith and believe. That's what started the car and let the 8-track work. :DWho says the jeep/truck has sat rusting for 20 years? Is that assumption based on the age of that song playing? You can still find functioning tapes if you know where to look. Just like the found facial hair and clothing, I still believe many of the island objects are likely props of some sort. The Losties have been and are likely still getting 'played'. Hurley accomplished nothing in actuality.

Who says the jeep/truck has sat rusting for 20 years? Is that assumption based on the age of that song playing? You can still find functioning tapes if you know where to look. Just like the found facial hair and clothing, I still believe many of the island objects are likely props of some sort. The Losties have been and are likely still getting 'played'. Hurley accomplished nothing in actuality.

Very true. Desmond was listening to records and using a rather out-of-date exercycle. It may be that only stuff that actually breaks down gets updated on the island.

Come to think of it, the Other's neighborhood looked an aweful lot like typical WW2 base housing.

Desmond did listen to records and have an outdated bike, but he had a very modern washer and dryer

Desmond did listen to records and have an outdated bike, but he had a very modern washer and dryer
...and the old units probably broke and were replaced. There was probably no need to replace the turntable or the excercise bikes since both appeared to be functioning - just like the dirt old computer to enter the numbers.

If resupply missions are complicated, you don't want to be bringing in unneccessary stuff.

On the other hand, maybe our friendly workman really is into 8-tracks. Some people swear by them. I chose to swear at them....

On the other hand, maybe our friendly workman really is into 8-tracks. Some people swear by them. I chose to swear at them....


I remember 2 8 Tracks my dad had...Beatles "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" and Pablo Cruise. :-) This was in 1980, right around the time Roger was tooling around the island in his VW.

Speaking of the VW, did anyone notice it had a Dharma symbol on the grill instead of the VW?

I remember 2 8 Tracks my dad had...Beatles "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" and Pablo Cruise. :-) This was in 1980, right around the time Roger was tooling around the island in his VW.

Speaking of the VW, did anyone notice it had a Dharma symbol on the grill instead of the VW?

Yeah I noticed that about the grill.

My mom and dad just gave me their old stereo. I wanted it for sentimental reasons. It's a big piece of furniture with all the components (speakers, turntable, 8-track, AM/FM tuner) built in to the cabinet. I used to sit in front of it when I was about 5 or so and listen to the radio after my dad went to work and left it on at low volume at 4am. I haven't powered it up since they gave it to me, but it made a nice hutch in the upstairs hallway, and every once in a while I like to look at it and remember. Silly huh?

Speaking of the VW, did anyone notice it had a Dharma symbol on the grill instead of the VW?

But the hubcaps did have the VW logo....just in case anyone was wondering! :eek:

I actually still have one (a Pioneer home deck), but it hasn't been hooked up in ages. And I fondly remember my Craig PowerPlay.

You could probably still get it to work if you rolled it down a hill and popped the clutch on it.

You could probably still get it to work if you rolled it down a hill and popped the clutch on it.

:D

I actually still have one (a Pioneer home deck), but it hasn't been hooked up in ages.

You Pioneer deck and I share the same problem...

You could probably still get it to work if you rolled it down a hill and popped the clutch on it.

Which is why I have the above problem. That was my last girlfriend's idea of foreplay. The clutching part only made it worse....

You guys gotta have faith and believe. That's what started the car and let the 8-track work. :D

go research how long gas will last in a car before going bad and gumming up the system - even with a preservative in it.

Then again, maybe Hurley pulled into an Exxon to put a Polar Bear in his tank.

And sure, Dharma would put a VW Van on the island with no roads - instead of a jeep, lol.

What would be a fun project for a rainy day for someone with the complete series on DVD is to find out if the no name survivors we see in Season 3 are the same ones from Season 1 and 2.


this has already been done on some other forums and they do indeed use the same extras for the non-speaking background players, but the new speaking characters are new actors that up to this season never showed up before. It has more to do with the way hollywood works with actors and extras. I don't think you'll ever see any of the extras convert into a speaking role.

[QUOTE=NetworkTV]You Pioneer deck and I share the same problem...QUOTE]

My Pioneer deck and I share the same problem!

Did they have a Dharma tire pump?

- Tom

I actually still have one (a Pioneer home deck), but it hasn't been hooked up in ages.

You Pioneer deck and I share the same problem...


You could probably still get it to work if you rolled it down a hill and popped the clutch on it.

Which is why I have the above problem. That was my last girlfriend's idea of foreplay. The clutching part only made it worse....

NetworkTV, you said "last girlfriend" :confused: What happened? Did you roll it down the hill?? :p

this has already been done on some other forums and they do indeed use the same extras for the non-speaking background players, but the new speaking characters are new actors that up to this season never showed up before. It has more to do with the way hollywood works with actors and extras. I don't think you'll ever see any of the extras convert into a speaking role.
That has to be the greatest job an extra has ever had. 3 years spent lounging around on a hawaiian beach.
:D

go research how long gas will last in a car before going bad and gumming up the system - even with a preservative in it.
Without preservative, you start developing varnish within a month or two. You can safely store gas with Stablo in it for 12-18 months. Maybe the magic Dharma bus has a fuel cell....

Anybody notice if it had a beaded seat? ;)

NetworkTV, you said "last girlfriend" :confused: What happened? Did you roll it down the hill?? :p
I moved - she didn't. Neither of us wanted to do the "long distance" thing.

[QUOTE=NetworkTV]You Pioneer deck and I share the same problem...QUOTE]

My Pioneer deck and I share the same problem!
Man, I hate it when I misspell something, and I don't notice until it's already been quoted... :eek:

Without preservative, you start developing varnish within a month or two. You can safely store gas with Stablo in it for 12-18 months.

When I was a kid we would store gasoline in a gas can in our garage for the lawn mower for more than a year and it would always work in the mower. I'm not expert but I think gasoline has a longer life span that you think it does.

When I was a kid we would store gasoline in a gas can in our garage for the lawn mower for more than a year and it would always work in the mower. I'm not expert but I think gasoline has a longer life span that you think it does.
Was it a 2-Cycle engine that required oil to be mixed in? I'm not saying the gas won't work, but you start to develope a glaze on the parts the gas touches after a while. In a gas can, it's not a really huge issue. In a car, it means clogged fuel lines and coated carbs (or fuel injectors) and pistons.

Besides, most lawn mowers aren't known for smooth running engines, anyway.

Was it a 2-Cycle engine that required oil to be mixed in? I'm not saying the gas won't work, but you start to develope a glaze on the parts the gas touches after a while. In a gas can, it's not a really huge issue. In a car, it means clogged fuel lines and coated carbs (or fuel injectors) and pistons.

Besides, most lawn mowers aren't known for smooth running engines, anyway.

I was 10 so I don't recall. It probably was a 2cycle engine and as far as oil being mixed in, I don't recall ever doing that.

Besides, most lawn mowers aren't known for smooth running engines, anyway.Yeah, VW buses are just the epitome of smoothness..... :D

One of the first lessons a new homeowner learns is that old gas will ruin a lawnmower. Most young folks don't realize that Dad faithfully "winterized" his old lawnmower every year, removing the old gas or just letting it run until it all burned out. Ol' Dad probably even suggested it to the new homeowner as a word of advice, but that stuff usually goes in one ear and out the other.

As said above, old gas will turn to varnish in a matter of months if not used or preserved with Stabil or equivalent. It gums up the carburater and causes that dreaded "start up for a few seconds, but then turn off" problem with most mowers. :D

I only post this to add to the discussion, btw...I have no problem with the gas working in the old VW bus on the show. It was running on Dharma gas, of course. ;)

...I have no problem with the gas working in the old VW bus on the show. It was running on Dharma gas, of course. ;)

No doubt with characteristics similar to pixie dust.

I've figured out how Lost will end. They keep saying that there are no supernatural elements in Lost, but considering the black smoke, all the coincidences, Locke walking, Sun's pregnancy, etc. I think there is only one way out.

After 5 years it will be revealed that Lost is... a TV show.

I've figured out how Lost will end. They keep saying that there are no supernatural elements in Lost, but considering the black smoke, all the coincidences, Locke walking, Sun's pregnancy, etc. I think there is only one way out.

After 5 years it will be revealed that Lost is... a TV show.

Good one! ;)

For my part, I keep waiting for some characters to comment in wonder "why do I keep having all these flashbacks?".

- Tom

Good one! ;)

For my part, I keep waiting for some characters to comment in wonder "why do I keep having all these flashbacks?".

- Tom
Maxman nailed it in a post above: Pixie Dust. ;)

One of the first lessons a new homeowner learns is that old gas will ruin a lawnmower. Most young folks don't realize that Dad faithfully "winterized" his old lawnmower every year, removing the old gas or just letting it run until it all burned out.

As a first-time homeowner with a filled-up mower sitting in the shed all winter, all I can say is:

I wish they'd aired that episode in October.

Any advice on what to with my gummed up mower, smart guys? (Taking it to the local Dharma station to top off the pixie dust isn't an option.)

As a first-time homeowner with a filled-up mower sitting in the shed all winter, all I can say is:

I wish they'd aired that episode in October.

Any advice on what to with my gummed up mower, smart guys? (Taking it to the local Dharma station to top off the pixie dust isn't an option.)

Have you tried cranking it? If it's "starting up but only running for a second or two and then stopping" then you have a problem. You might get lucky this time around. Otherwise, you'll need to take apart the carb and clean it up really well, including all those little jets and so forth.

OR, you can bite the bullet and take it a small-engine repair shop and pay to have them do it. This time of year is the worst for this, because everyone else is pulling out the mowers and running into the same thing. Expect to pay no more than $100 for this service.

Then, next year at the end of the mowing season, make sure you burn out all the gas from the mower by letting it run til it's done. Then dump any gas remaining in the gas can into your auto (provided it's not mixed with oil obviously).

I also use Stabil or Sea Foam as a preservative for my small-engine gas year round. It's cheap and a good extra measure.

Have you tried cranking it? If it's "starting up but only running for a second or two and then stopping" then you have a problem. You might get lucky this time around. Otherwise, you'll need to take apart the carb and clean it up really well, including all those little jets and so forth.

OR, you can bite the bullet and take it a small-engine repair shop and pay to have them do it. This time of year is the worst for this, because everyone else is pulling out the mowers and running into the same thing. Expect to pay no more than $100 for this service.

Then, next year at the end of the mowing season, make sure you burn out all the gas from the mower by letting it run til it's done. Then dump any gas remaining in the gas can into your auto (provided it's not mixed with oil obviously).

I also use Stabil or Sea Foam as a preservative for my small-engine gas year round. It's cheap and a good extra measure.
You could also throw a bit of seafoam into the mower and top off the tank. Then let it run through. If you're lucky, you haven't done any real harm.

It also depends on the last time you used the thing before storing it. For example, up my way, we still had weather that necessitated mowing the lawn right up into November these last couple of years.

Come to think of it, there's our answer for the Dharma Bus: Sea Foam.

Surely there's an abundance of that on the Lost island beaches.

Thanks for the tips, IrmoGamecoq and NetworkTV. I haven't fired it up since then end of October, maybe it is OK.

Better bring this back on topic before someone yells at me. Hmm, anyone think Smokey is nanobots? Let's discuss...

I haven't fired it up since then end of October, maybe it is OK.

You haven’t gummed up your mower because you haven’t used what you have in the tank. Siphon off or drain what you can, the rest will evaporate. The little you have left in the system will not cause you to have problems or require major surgery on your mower. Inevitably, I have a little fuel left in the tank at the end of the season and it evaporates and I don’t worry about it. This is what I’ve been doing for the past 25 years and have never had a starting problem in the spring. Waiting 18 years is another story. :)

Hmm, anyone think Smokey is nanobots? Let's discuss...

Actually, smokey is the smoke belched from that Dharma bus as it was jumpstarted.

Who said the last one was a filler episode? :D

Any advice on what to with my gummed up mower, smart guys? (Taking it to the local Dharma station to top off the pixie dust isn't an option.)
Have you tried rolling it down a hill and popping the clutch?

Have you tried rolling it down a hill and popping the clutch?

directly before colliding with a big rock...(this is key)

Have you tried rolling it down a hill and popping the clutch?
Many times in the winter in Duluth, MN.
The kicker for me is why did he not pop the clutch as soon as he was rolling pretty fast? Good for the story but stupid to an old Duluthian. :o

directly before colliding with a big rock...(this is key)
Cuz if it doesn't start, you'll need a new mower anyway!

For my part, I keep waiting for some characters to comment in wonder "why do I
Ah, the flashbacks. That could be another explanation for everything: LSD.

I did earlier theorize that the nano-cloud spews some sort of hallucinogenic-whatever. Hence, individuals showing up from the past...including some who are deceased. But Smokey is able to assume the form of those still living.

is it a new one tonight? :D

They're all new right now. I think we have 16 total new ones starting from after the 2-3 month break they took.

I did earlier theorize that the nano-cloud spews some sort of hallucinogenic-whatever. Hence, individuals showing up from the past...including some who are deceased. But Smokey is able to assume the form of those still living.

Ummm, Eko's brother was not still living. And Hallucinations don't carry lighters and set huts on fire. Just sayin'....

As a first-time homeowner with a filled-up mower sitting in the shed all winter, all I can say is:

I wish they'd aired that episode in October.

Any advice on what to with my gummed up mower, smart guys? (Taking it to the local Dharma station to top off the pixie dust isn't an option.)

I've had only one mower for 5 years and a very small lawn. A single gallon of gas lasts me 3 years, and I have never drained the gas for winter, or anything. The only maintainence ever done on it is making sure the oil level is ok. It justs takes a little longer to start the first time every spring, but otherwise works fine.

The effect is generally cumulative, but at 5 years, I'd say you've gotten pretty lucky.

I've had only one mower for 5 years and a very small lawn. A single gallon of gas lasts me 3 years, and I have never drained the gas for winter, or anything. The only maintainence ever done on it is making sure the oil level is ok. It justs takes a little longer to start the first time every spring, but otherwise works fine.

Same here, my gas can lasts me years, its only used for the mower. Its worked fine, and I don't have problems with my mower. The only time I had to replace it was when the wheels feel off of it, never for engine problems. If it turns to something else like was posted, it should always happen, not when someone is lucky.

Could it be because pure gasoline will turn, but the stations add a lot of additivies, anti-freeze stuff, etc. is that preventing it from changing???

Actually, stations add fewer preservatives to gasoline than they used to (cost savings of course) so it's more common these days for this to happen.

If it ever did happen to you though, you'd be careful from that point on.

Very frustrating that "start for a few seconds, then stop" thing. Especially after you've taken apart the carb and cleaned it to the best of your ability. Makes preventative maintenance look a lot more appealing.

You guys are taking this thread waaayyyy OT. Come on, I'm tired of reading about lawn mower maintenance. Start a new thread about Mower Maintenance if you want to talk about it.

You guys are taking this thread waaayyyy OT. Come on, I'm tired of reading about lawn mower maintenance. Start a new thread about Mower Maintenance if you want to talk about it.
It's not that far off topic. Both sides have brought up excellent cases why the bus may or may not be able to be started with the fuel available. Besides, in a little over 8 hours, we'll have something else to nitpick over.

Personally, I'd rather read stuff that relates to the validity of show elements than references to Battlestar Galatica or Jericho. For that matter, at least this reduces talk of spoilers.

You guys are taking this thread waaayyyy OT. Come on, I'm tired of reading about lawn mower maintenance. Start a new thread about Mower Maintenance if you want to talk about it.

It'll get on track by tonight after the new ep. This happens every week, it's nothing new. Especially as they don't give us too much to talk about. And technically the discussion of gas/preservatives IS on topic in regards to the DharmaVW :-)

And technically the discussion of gas/preservatives IS on topic in regards to the DharmaVW :-)

Said it before I could. :)

It'll get on track by tonight after the new ep. This happens every week, it's nothing new. Especially as they don't give us too much to talk about. And technically the discussion of gas/preservatives IS on topic in regards to the DharmaVW :-)
I think that's really the crux of why ratings are really down: less water cooler subjects to talk about. Previously, we had discussions all week about where we spotted the numbers, who was in the background of (or indirectly referenced in) someone's flashback, and what odd objects, artwork, Dharma logos or visual elements were seen in the background. We used to be able to stumble on web sites that didn't further the plot, but were fun Easter eggs (like the Oceanic airlines site with the seating chart, or the Hanso Foundation site, for example).

Those things are gone from the show. The websites are now mainstream ties to the show, rather than clever mockups to add realism for those people that wanted to dig into them. The show had everything: a great storyline with excellent twists or regular viewers, hidden tidbits on screen for the DVR crowd and those hidden places on the web for the true fans of the show to stumble on.

It's just not as fun to talk about it anymore. I still enjoy the show, but it was the comparing notes aspect afterward that really used to jazz me up for each episode. I didn't care that questions didn't have answers. I just wanted them to hit me with some real whoppers to speculate over. It's almost as though they've gotten lazy with the mysteries and just can't make up for it with the character drama.

Give me numbers on the backs of runners in a marathon. Give me a Dharma logo on the "Chicken Shack" website. Give me Locke in the background of someone's flashback. Give me one of those guys from the arctic station do weather on a TV at Desmonds apartment.

Do something to make me go "oh, that is just too cool...." Then we won't have to discuss the merits of fuel quality in VW busses.

lol....ok guys, talk about lawn mowers. I just get too many emails from this thread. :D

Everybody knows this thread only stays on topic each week through Thursday night, Friday afternoon tops. :)

Ummm, Eko's brother was not still living. And Hallucinations don't carry lighters and set huts on fire. Just sayin'....Well...umm, we never actually saw little bro set the fire; it was merely implied. And while I've never dropped acid, I'm told the accompanying hallucinations do much stranger things than carry cigarette-lighters.

Well...umm, we never actually saw little bro set the fire; it was merely implied.

Um, sure. Maybe Eko was rubbing two sticks together in his sleep. We were shown the brother (sorry, can't remember his name now) holding the lighter (the Lostaways don't have one, and even if they did, it's likely the fuel would be gone by then); next thing you know, the hut's on fire. Do the math.

...holding the lighter (the Lostaways don't have one, and even if they did, it's likely the fuel would be gone by then)...

Lighters NEVER run out of lighter fluid in movies and TV shows!

(the Lostaways don't have one, and even if they did, it's likely the fuel would be gone by then)
I'd completely believe that they have a lighter, and that it still has fuel. However, said fuel would've certainly gummed up after sitting in the lighter for so long. The hut fire therefore could not have been caused by the hallucination carrying the lighter, but rather must've been supernatural in origin.

This show ain't so tough to figure out.

Unless, of course, someone put Sea Foam in the lighter fluid. :confused: Damn, back to square one.

Man, ain't nothing worse than a lighter that lights up at first, only to go out a few seconds later. Lighter repair places aren't cheap either. That's why I've learned to practice proper lighter preventative maintenance.

lol you guys are nuts. :D

ps...QUIT EMAILING ME!!! :D

I'd completely believe that they have a lighter, and that it still has fuel. However, said fuel would've certainly gummed up after sitting in the lighter for so long. The hut fire therefore could not have been caused by the hallucination carrying the lighter, but rather must've been supernatural in origin.

This show ain't so tough to figure out.

Unless, of course, someone put Sea Foam in the lighter fluid. :confused: Damn, back to square one.
Does butane actually go bad?

ARRRRGGGGHHHH....lol :). Another email. I gotta unsubscribe, but I hate to miss anything. So much productive chatter on here ;)

BTW, I have no idea about butane...I use it too fast.

lol you guys are nuts. :D

ps...QUIT EMAILING ME!!! :D

Must...control...temptation...to be a smarta$$....and do something to annoy you.. ;)

All kidding aside, you may actually want to unsubscribe from this thread. It's not as busy as it used to be, but still get's a lot of hits each day.

lmao

Must...control...temptation...to be a smarta$$....and do something to annoy you.. ;)

All kidding aside, you may actually want to unsubscribe from this thread. It's not as busy as it used to be, but still get's a lot of hits each day.No need to unsubscribe, just turn off email notification.

No need to unsubscribe, just turn off email notification.

Yeah, but if I did that, I'd miss all my other threads and PM's. I'll just put up with the idle chatter. I usually do, but I was bored today and thought I'd goof off. ;)

Speaking of lighters, how do you suppose Sawyer and Kate started the fire on the beach their first night back?

lightning

Speaking of lighters, how do you suppose Sawyer and Kate started the fire on the beach their first night back?
Friction?

Oooh yeah, I wanna change my answer!!! Friction!

I want to know how they make their torches they carry through the jungles. Don't you need some kind of oil for that?

I want to know how they make their torches they carry through the jungles. Don't you need some kind of oil for that?
Nah, there are certain types of moss and grasses that light quickly will burn for quite a while.

I want to know how they make their torches they carry through the jungles.The same methods Gilligan and Skipper used (?)

I want to know how they make their torches they carry through the jungles.
I thought I remember someone having a henweigh.

What's a henweigh? :)

What's a henweigh? :)
about three pounds...

tonight is Sawyer's ping pong tournament...hohummmmm!

Please, don't ban me. :D

about three pounds...

about 7 times more than an unladen European swallow.

Oh my, the natives are getting restless. Is it 10:00 yet? :D

about 7 times more than an unladen European swallow.
...That is blue....no, red!

You guys have filled my inbox. I hope you're happy :D

You guys have filled my inbox. I hope you're happy :D

JUST turn off e-mail notification for this THREAD...its not that hard

But then I'll miss all this scintilating (sp) conversation...:D

*bangs head*

LOL don't hurt yourself. I shut it off.

I should know this - must be having a brain fart - but what point does subscribing to a thread without email notification serve?

You can go to "User CP" and see the ones that have been posted to

Then subscribing to this thread without email notification would be as necessary as checking your check stub to see if any taxes were taken out. ;)

lol CP...that's about right. :D But at least it gives you an easy way to find the thread as well, by not having to go to the area it's in.

You can go to "User CP" and see the ones that have been posted to

I turn off all email notifications but set up my AVS bookmark to always start at the USER CP. That way I first see all my subscriptions that have new posts.

- Tom

That's a good idea Tom, maybe I'll change my bookmark for that too. Thanks for the idea.

tonight is Sawyer's ping pong tournament...hohummmmm!You are aware that this is a spoiler right? :D


ron

Does butane actually go bad?

Real men don't use butane!

I hear next episode the gang find an old Jukebox, which Sayed fixes up, then they throw a party while listening to The Monkees. The smoke monster provides the dance special effects.

I sure hope Sawyer wins... a whole island week without any nicknames?!? :eek:

That's like 6 episodes to us :(

Whoa, some sort of progress only 14 minutes into an episode!!! slow down guys, you might actually advance the story at this rate!!

Whoa, some sort of progress only 14 minutes into an episode!!! slow down guys, you might actually advance the story at this rate!!

yeah seriously....looks like its all going to be mis-information anyways :D

"Number 1 Draft Pick"

LOL!

so is locke gonna cause another station to be destroyed

77 = c4 trigger

yup

Well I guess Miss Klugh (sp?) had a short-term contract ;)

A few very simple questions answered, but like 10+ more questions posed...sounds like a pretty solid episode of Lost

Wow, we are making progress here. About 75% of the show was the main storyline, the other 25% split between flashback and the 'B' story.
Stick with this formula and maybe Lost won't lose any more viewers.

anyone else find it kind of funny they killed off another black person on the island?!?!?

Lost is the most racist show on TV...

Finally! An episode that gives those little Lost moments of old that actually almost make the hair on your arms stand up a little bit in anticipation.

I think I'll go ahead and declare this my favorite ep. of the current partial-season run.

a great episode at long last...although I gave away the ending to my wife halfway in (the chess game detonation).


Locke's keying in of `77' made no sense however! :rolleyes:

Lost is the most racist show on TV...

hope your being sarcastic!

a great episode at long last...although I gave away the ending to my wife halfway in (the chess game detonation).


Locke's keying in of `77' made no sense however! :rolleyes:

Locke's got a thing for pushing buttons if you haven't realized :p

Anyone able to translate the Russian dialogue where Ms. Kluge told Mikhail to shoot her??

She was basically telling him "You know what to do!"

Anyone able to translate the Russian dialogue where Ms. Kluge told Mikhail to shoot her??

Woman: Mikhail! You know what to do. Mikhail: We still have another way. Woman: We cannot risk. Woman: You know what to do. Mikhail: We still have another way. Woman: We cannot risk. You know the conditions. Mikhail: We have another way. Woman: They know us. We will ot let them [unintelligible]. You know what to do. It is an order. Mikhail: But we still have another way! (pause) I'm sorry! (shoots)

Courtesy of Lostpedia :)

Locke's keying in of `77' made no sense however! :rolleyes:

I'm guessing Locke's reasoning was this: Assuming Locke doesn't believe the Russian is part of Dharma, and thus neither are the Others--thus they are the 'Hostiles'. Thus, Dharma is not necessarily the 'bad guys'. The Sat. dish is down, the Sonar is down, and so hitting '77' seems to be some third option of contacting Dharma and telling them that the Hostiles have taken over. Who knows, maybe it activates an emergency beacon or something. It could be a shot in the dark, a cry for help.

Totally predictable episode all the way through. The writing desperately needs to get better, as I'm losing interest fast.

Woman: Mikhail! You know what to do. Mikhail: We still have another way. Woman: We cannot risk. Woman: You know what to do. Mikhail: We still have another way. Woman: We cannot risk. You know the conditions. Mikhail: We have another way. Woman: They know us. We will ot let them [unintelligible]. You know what to do. It is an order. Mikhail: But we still have another way! (pause) I'm sorry! (shoots)

Courtesy of Lostpedia :)

See, I was right :) Last time I took Russian was about 20 years ago.

well not much in the way of mysteries solved but stuff actually happened! Sayid got some face time (even if his story was just a shorter version of Death and the Maiden), things went boom, Sawyer got some laughs, a bit of ping pong ...

Fairly solid all the way around. Well in comparison to the tedium of the "cage weeks."

And a compass now works! The question is did the writers forget from the first season that they didn't work, or did Locke and Sayid assume that the hatch EM field was responsible, put two and two together and tested the compass off screen?

Pity about Niki and Paulo not being dead. Maybe next week ...

Pity about Niki and Paulo not being dead. Maybe next week ...

yeah, but you gotta like Sawyer: "...and who the hell are you?"

I nearly fell out of my chair on that one. It's almost like the long, complicated setups "Earl" and "Arrested Developement" have used in the past just to lead to one line. I wouldn't put it past the producers to introduce two new characters just to play a joke on us, knowing we would hate these interlopers.

Then again, maybe I just think with my evil side too often.... :cool:

yeah, but you gotta like Sawyer: "...and who the hell are you?"


yeah that was a good line. The writers drop these in now and again to acknowledge fan responses, like the other Sawyer line about Hurley still not being any thinner.

After wondering where Ms. Klugh has been so far, we finally see her again - briefly. Who are these "hostiles"/Others, anyway? The Island's "native" inhabitants? They obviously have no fear of death. And why they would be so afraid of the Losties that they'd essentially commit suicide rather than be captured really didn't make any sense (with what we know so far). They know the Losties aren't Dharma, and they know they're castaways, some of whom have recently been captured/escaped, but are basically harmless if left alone. Can it be the "brainwashing" that makes them so "committed" to their cause, whatever it is? In fact, it's looking like they may have killed off all the Dharma scientists long ago and simply taken over their facilities. (Who really started the war?) Yet the Dharma resupply airdrops continue....?

Anyway, it was good to see Sayid back in full badass-mode again. And Locke's curiosity once again got the better of him. Also enjoyed the interplay between Sawyer and the rest of 'em. All in all, an episode that should get people talking again.

It almost seemed like they weren't allowed to kill the Losties at that moment. Locke kept saying 'If he was going to kill me then he would have already done it'. It would have made more sense for him to shoot the first person who came through the door, then hope to either win the shootout against the other, or he loses and dies. Either way it's mission accomplished.

Anyone else get the sense that maybe Whitmore is behind the actions of the Others/Hostiles?

Greedy billionare looks to take over/ capture the secrets of a philanthropic organization.

Just thinking out loud.

Anyone else get the sense that maybe Whitmore is behind the actions of the Others/Hostiles?


Whitmore Corp, Hanso Foundation, Dharma Initiative - all are somehow tied together. Someday we'll find out how. ;)

After wondering where Ms. Klugh has been so far, we finally see her again - briefly. Who are these "hostiles"/Others, anyway? The Island's "native" inhabitants? They obviously have no fear of death. And why they would be so afraid of the Losties that they'd essentially commit suicide rather than be captured really didn't make any sense (with what we know so far). They know the Losties aren't Dharma, and they know they're castaways, some of whom have recently been captured/escaped, but are basically harmless if left alone. Can it be the "brainwashing" that makes them so "committed" to their cause, whatever it is? In fact, it's looking like they may have killed off all the Dharma scientists long ago and simply taken over their facilities. (Who really started the war?) Yet the Dharma resupply airdrops continue....?

Anyway, it was good to see Sayid back in full badass-mode again. And Locke's curiosity once again got the better of him. Also enjoyed the interplay between Sawyer and the rest of 'em. All in all, an episode that should get people talking again.

Well of course they have no fear of death. If one is killed, s/he merely downloads into another body and....oops, sorry, wrong show. :D

Dharma is still making regular food drops, so are we to assume that they think their personnel are still in charge of the island? What we are calling "The Others" are the native inhabitants of the island--who have a surburban lifestyle--and a submarine. Julia was recruited by Widmore so is an "outsider".

So....Widmore is the new "Dharma"? They took over the experiments? Good speculation Archiguy.

It also would seem that Dharma had to have known about the hostiles for a while to make the video with the "77" instructions and for them to wire the facility with the C4. They couldn't have been a total surprise to them.

I'm guessing Locke's reasoning was this: Assuming Locke doesn't believe the Russian is part of Dharma, and thus neither are the Others--thus they are the 'Hostiles'. Thus, Dharma is not necessarily the 'bad guys'. The Sat. dish is down, the Sonar is down, and so hitting '77' seems to be some third option of contacting Dharma and telling them that the Hostiles have taken over. Who knows, maybe it activates an emergency beacon or something. It could be a shot in the dark, a cry for help.

Of course, had Kate or Sayid bothered to mention the "basement" was wired with C4, Locke might have reasoned more sensibly, and correctly anticipated the actual outcome. Think of the questions those Dharma manuals would have answered!

so is locke gonna cause another station to be destroyed

77 = c4 trigger

John is an idiot in this episode:

"let's leave the combat trained Russian alone while I play this chess game...Don't tell me what I can't DO!"

anyone else find it kind of funny they killed off another black person on the island?!?!?

Lost is the most racist show on TV...

She was supposed to die last season, but they spared her and killed the gal from Deadwood instead, as they were going to kill of Eko as well and wanted to avoid appearing racist.

I'm pretty sure more white people have died on this show than minorities...anyone have a count? :-)

a great episode at long last...although I gave away the ending to my wife halfway in (the chess game detonation).


Locke's keying in of `77' made no sense however! :rolleyes:


It makes sense only in the world of LOST, where Sayid and Kate wouldn't bother telling Locke that the entire complex was wired to blow with C4.

Pity about Niki and Paulo not being dead. Maybe next week ...

One can only hope - that's what keeps us watching! :D

Why didn't the Losties take the animals before leaving? Or did they assume they were blown up? A horse and cow could be quite useful.

I tried to make out the Russian on the typewritten page Locke glances at. The comments in red looked like "my name is Andrei too" (upper note in margin, referring to the name Andrei in the text). The lower writing was "I forgot about Afghanistan".

yeah, but you gotta like Sawyer: "...and who the hell are you?"



Good Stuff

I mentioned to my wife that Locke has been doing some stupid things here lately and that last night he became Gilligan to Sayid's skipper with his (unintentional) destruction of the Flame and the communications devices and then Sayid's comment about not be able to send a rescue signal.

i think if this episode was in the first two seasons it would be considered average and predictable. But atleast the plot is progressing now.

I mentioned to my wife that Locke has been doing some stupid things here lately and that last night he became Gilligan to Sayid's skipper with his (unintentional) destruction of the Flame and the communications devices and then Sayid's comment about not be able to send a rescue signal.

I don't think he knew that the basement was wired with C4.

I wanted to know why, after getting control of the situation, Sayid wasn't down disarming the C4 to begin with.

Well, Sayid really didn't have the knowledge of how the thing was wired up, nor the time to figure out how to disarm it without setting it off. I'd give them a pass on that one. But there should have been some explanation as to how Eyepatch was able to get out of his bonds so quickly... who does he think he is, Jack Bauer??

I don't think he knew that the basement was wired with C4.

I wanted to know why, after getting control of the situation, Sayid wasn't down disarming the C4 to begin with.

That was my first thought when they saw it - pull the igniter caps. No caps and C4 is harmless as silly putty. Heck, soldiers used to use it in a pinch to cook with.

You take over the place, stash the C4 and you can build yourself quite a strike team to get Jack back.

That was my first thought when they saw it - pull the igniter caps. No caps and C4 is harmless as silly putty. Heck, soldiers used to use it in a pinch to cook with.
They could have been booby trapped -- pulling the igniter caps breaks a wire that sets the other blobs of C4 off. So are there any hatches left that Locke hasn't blown up yet? :rolleyes:

The sonar network (if it wasn't a lie) implies the island was a millitary monitoring station, unless someone else can think of a reason to monitor submarine activity.

We really don't actually know whether Locke was told about the explosives or not. It's entirely possible that they did tell him. Just knowing the place was wired to blow wouldn't necessarily lead Locke to the conclusion that the 77 code was the trigger. Although I totally agree, it was very questionable judgement on Lockes' part to even be messing around with the computer, entering commands etc under the circumstances, knowing nothing about possible repercussions. After his crisis of confidence last season Locke seems to have reverted back to his box company bonehead mode.

Much more intrigue/enlightenment could have been provided by that station. It was really disheartening to see it all go up in flames... :( Sayid showed some serious restraint as he looked like he wanted to punch him out on the spot and I wouldn't have blamed him. It's too bad LOST is on network TV. That whole scene would have been so much more effective and natural if they were able to to add a bunch of appropriate cussing and name calling :D.


Pity about Niki and Paulo not being dead. Maybe next week ... I don't know... Niki isn't doing much for me but I'm starting to warm up to Paulo after his confrontation with Sawyer. What was that he called him? A hillbilly I think :).



ron

Although I totally agree, it was very questionable judgement on Lockes' part to even be messing around with the computer, entering commands etc under the circumstances, knowing nothing about possible repercussions. After his crisis of confidence last season Locke seems to have reverted back to his box company bonehead mode.



Couldn't agree more. He KNOWS that the Orientation guy LIES, he's seen it on other films (he lied to the observation station). Why he would blindly trust a recorded video message....I don't know. And seriously, what did he THINK Dharma would do to the station if the Hostiles had taken it over? Destroy it to deny them the communications equipment seems like a reasonable assumption. Oh well, it's John being John.


Much more intrigue/enlightenment could have been provided by that station. It was really disheartening to see it all go up in flames... :( Sayid showed some serious restraint as he looked like he wanted to punch him out on the spot and I wouldn't have blamed him.


It's just a plotting problem the writers had to get around. Obviously there had to BE such a station, it's how the Others (are we going to call them Hostiles now?) have communicated with the outside world.

But the Losties can't have access to it, otherwise they get rescued and the show is over.

I would much rather have seen a true battle over it, and it being destroyed by the Others rather then ceding it to the Losties. Instead it was destroyed in a typical John Locke cluster*uck.

Anyone else here remember the historical "Mikhail Bakunin?" He blew up quite a few RR stations in his time (early 1900s) as befit his anarchist theories. He was associated with American anarchist Emma Goldman (seen in the movie Reds) and Charles Giteau (who shot President Garfield (or was it McKinley?)).

It also would seem that Dharma had to have known about the hostiles for a while to make the video with the "77" instructions and for them to wire the facility with the C4. They couldn't have been a total surprise to them.

I was thinking The Others (like Ben) were the original test subjects or their decendants. I think the original Dharma was experimenting on more than just animals. During the experiments, they knew the subjects could be "hostile".
Then, at some point, The Others rebelled and now are using the old Dharma facilities for their own purposes. Maybe they killed off or scared off most of the original Dharma group.
For some reasons unknown, they have supporters from the outside world that supply them with supplies and new recruits (like Julliet).

John is an idiot in this episode:

"let's leave the combat trained Russian alone while I play this chess game...Don't tell me what I can't DO!"

I absolutely hate how they have turned a once respected and strong character (Locke), with many leadership qualities, into a bumbling idiot. :mad:

Dharma? Thought the recruiters were from an outfit called Mittelos Bioscience or some such. Now, it could be a front for Dharma (maybe Ethan was traded to Mittelos for a future draft choice and an undisclosed amount of cash), but it might just be another organization like the Hanso Foundation or Dharma, or..... whatever. With this show, you can never be sure (because they never tell you. :p ). We're still not sure how Dharma ties in with Hanso....

Mittelos...an anagram of "Lost Time" or "Time Lost" or "Lost Item." Also see Ethan Rom (= Other Man). I suspect the numerous anagrams are more like in-jokes for viewers rather than contextual clues (meaning Ethan Rom's name really was Ethan Rom, not an alias designed to test the Losties' intelligence).

What I'm most annoyed with is how silly it would be to attach a self destruct mechanism to a chess game. When the hostiles are attacking you, and you need to destroy the facility to prevent it falling into enemy hands, you have to sit down for 10 minutes and beat a computer at chess? Whoever came up with that idea really didn't want to have to blow themselves up.

Locke's got a thing for pushing buttons if you haven't realized :p


Locke is the Giligan of Lost

I was thinking The Others (like Ben) were the original test subjects or their decendants. I think the original Dharma was experimenting on more than just animals. During the experiments, they knew the subjects could be "hostile".
Then, at some point, The Others rebelled and now are using the old Dharma facilities for their own purposes. Maybe they killed off or scared off most of the original Dharma group.
For some reasons unknown, they have supporters from the outside world that supply them with supplies and new recruits (like Julliet).

Good theory, but didn't Eyepatch tell Sayid that they had been on the island much longer than Dharma? I guess it's possible that Dharma came to the island expecting it to be deserted, found an indigenous group of people living there (perhaps descendants of the slave ship? wouldn't there be more black people then?) and just decided to start experimenting on them.

I think the C4 was rigged by Eyepatch. Dharma had nothing to do with it. I don't think it was triggered by John typing 77 either. If you recall the translation of the Russian spoken between Ms. Klugh and Eyepatch, I think Eyepatch triggered the explosion.

What I'm most annoyed with is how silly it would be to attach a self destruct mechanism to a chess game. When the hostiles are attacking you, and you need to destroy the facility to prevent it falling into enemy hands, you have to sit down for 10 minutes and beat a computer at chess? Whoever came up with that idea really didn't want to have to blow themselves up.
The only remote explanation I can come up with is that since the chess game was intended to be a cover for its real purpose, it wasn't really much of a chess game.

Here's a possibility. If you moved certain pieces at the beginning of the game (say, the first few moves of one of of Karpov's famous matches) that proved to the computer that you knew the secret code to blowing the place up so the machine would quickly let you "win". No one else would realize what you're doing. If you didn't move these pieces correctly, it would either play for real or "cheat" if you started winning so you could never win. I think this is just how the Dharma people would have enjoyed obfuscating the self-destruct code.

Naturally Locke stumbled upon this secret code because this is a TV show and he's never been in a hatch that didn't blow up.

It's just a plotting problem the writers had to get around. Obviously there had to BE such a station, it's how the Others (are we going to call them Hostiles now?) have communicated with the outside world.

But the Losties can't have access to it, otherwise they get rescued and the show is over.

I would much rather have seen a true battle over it, and it being destroyed by the Others rather then ceding it to the Losties. Instead it was destroyed in a typical John Locke cluster*uck.Yeah, I understand. It's just that it all happened so quickly. Less than one ep. It would have been nice if they could have at least gotten to sort through it a little. And for some reason, I like it when the Losties have somewhere else to be in addition to the beach (cages in the jungle don't count ;)). It adds variety and interest for me.


I think the C4 was rigged by Eyepatch. Dharma had nothing to do with it. I don't think it was triggered by John typing 77 either. If you recall the translation of the Russian spoken between Ms. Klugh and Eyepatch, I think Eyepatch triggered the explosion.That's an interesting theory. Would have been nice to see what the screen said after John entered the command... If it said "Leave the building IMMEDIATELY", we'd have a better idea :D



ron

Yeah, I understand. It's just that it all happened so quickly. Less than one ep. It would have been nice if they could have at least gotten to sort through it a little. And for some reason, I like it when the Losties have somewhere else to be in addition to the beach (cages in the jungle don't count ;)). It adds variety and interest for me.

ron


You know, I have to disagree there (nothing personal), but the move to the hatch really helped kill some momentum on the show. It kept key characters stuck in the hatch entering numbers, when they could have been out and about adventuring with the rest of the camp, intent on not finding answers :-)

Plus it took away a great deal from the drama of : finding food, water, shelter from storms, etc. Here they are castaways, and they had all the comforts of home. It wasn't quite gilligan's island, but I don't think it had a positive effect on the story.

You know, I have to disagree there (nothing personal), but the move to the hatch really helped kill some momentum on the show. It kept key characters stuck in the hatch entering numbers, when they could have been out and about adventuring with the rest of the camp, intent on not finding answers :-)

Plus it took away a great deal from the drama of : finding food, water, shelter from storms, etc. Here they are castaways, and they had all the comforts of home. It wasn't quite gilligan's island, but I don't think it had a positive effect on the story.It's funny, because when they first found what was in the original hatch at the beginning of last season, I felt the same way as you. But after I got over that initial realization I came to like if as the season went on. It definitely did alter the "survival" aspect a lot. But then again, multiple ep of them hunting boars would have gotten old pretty quickly too :) Oh sure, wild boar is good, but nothing beats a good Dharma bar when you're tired and hungry from a grueling day of ping pong or joyriding in the fields (well, maybe a big ol' tub of Dharma salad dressing - yum!).


ron

just a note,...I tried getting my wife into this show because she tends to be very observant and has a much better memory than me...with that said, she seems to remember that in the finale last season,...the two people who observed the magnetic pulse at the end of the season finale, were playing the same chess game as was in the flame station...weren't those guys russian as well? just wondering if we can tie anything together here...

It's just a plotting problem the writers had to get around. Obviously there had to BE such a station, it's how the Others (are we going to call them Hostiles now?) have communicated with the outside world.

But the Losties can't have access to it, otherwise they get rescued and the show is over.

I would much rather have seen a true battle over it, and it being destroyed by the Others rather then ceding it to the Losties. Instead it was destroyed in a typical John Locke cluster*uck.

But that's the thing. The satellite communications and sonar were apparently down for the count. The plot could have continued in that fashion for a while to allow the Losties to explore it further. In addition, like I said earlier, that C4 could have been very useful for a big explosion later on.

The way they lost the station was pretty bogus. I like your idea of a fight for it. It could occur after someone comes by to fix the thing and discovers them there. At least they could sift through those manuals, make a credible attempt to get communications working and have the resources from the "farm" section for a while.

For that matter, after finding the "Others" village, they could potentially retreat to it from overwhelming forces. They could then set it off to allow for their escape. Still a big bang, but a useful one.

You know, I have to disagree there (nothing personal), but the move to the hatch really helped kill some momentum on the show. It kept key characters stuck in the hatch entering numbers, when they could have been out and about adventuring with the rest of the camp, intent on not finding answers :-)
I agree with that sort of. My heart was pumping last season when Sayid and Jack were crawling around under the hatch trying to figure out how it works. Finally two educated curious men trying to find the answers we wanted. But pretty soon our Losties were too busy lounging around the hatch listening to Jeronimo Jackson and arguing with each other to figure out what the hell this place was.

If the Flame hadn't blowed up, I assume our Losties would have sat around the living room enjoying iced tea, played with the cat, rode the horse around the yard, and tried to see what cable channels they could pick up on the satellite dish.

Now wait a second... a lot of good things happend down in that hole too. Remember Kate's shower scene? :D We saw Ana Lucia get popped... Henry Gale had the "snot" kicked out of him. All in good fun. :)

Now wait a second... a lot of good things happend down in that hole too. Remember Kate's shower scene? :D We saw Ana Lucia get popped... Henry Gale had the "snot" kicked out of him. All in good fun. :)
Don't forget about the map on the blast door. Too bad they never did anything with that.

Speaking of, has anyone looked back at that map to see if The Flame is on it? If it is, it shows they at least are close to a season ahead on plot specifics.

Speaking of, has anyone looked back at that map to see if The Flame is on it? If it is, it shows they at least are close to a season ahead on plot specifics.
Yep, going clockwise it's between the Swan and the Staff which we discovered last season and Locke hasn't gotten around to blowing up yet.

We really don't actually know whether Locke was told about the explosives or not. It's entirely possible that they did tell him. Just knowing the place was wired to blow wouldn't necessarily lead Locke to the conclusion that the 77 code was the trigger.

there's a lot of missing time between Locke staring at those keys and seeing the station blowing up. Entering those numbers could have easily shown another film stating that confirming the 77 code entry would set off a self destruct timer.

Yep, going clockwise it's between the Swan and the Staff which we discovered last season and Locke hasn't gotten around to blowing up yet.

Wasn't The Staff the medical bunker they discovered?

Wasn't The Staff the medical bunker they discovered?
That's right. Also listed on the map as the "Cadaceus Medical Station".

Nice to have an episode that made me pull out the map. I was wondering if the writers had forgotten about it.

there's a lot of missing time between Locke staring at those keys and seeing the station blowing up. Entering those numbers could have easily shown another film stating that confirming the 77 code entry would set off a self destruct timer.But that would mean he did it on purpose then :eek:. Maybe he just really dislikes home grown ice tea...


ron

But there should have been some explanation as to how Eyepatch was able to get out of his bonds so quickly... who does he think he is, Jack Bauer??He had a knife tucked away somewhere. Did'ya see how big that thing was? :eek: And while I'm not big on Sawyerisms, I actually laughed when he called Jin and Sun "Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon." I don't think Sun liked it very well, though.

But that would mean he did it on purpose then :eek:.

maybe we'll find out next week. It could be exactly as someone else said, better it be destroyed to screw up the Others and act as a potential signal for help in the outside world was what Locke was thinking.

Or maybe he's just really hates that Dharma guy!

I think something interesting is if "Ben's gang" is not Dharma, how do they have the cash and connections to do stuff in the real world like recruiting Mikhael, Juliet, etc. ? Are they hooked up with a Dharma competitor? Or is Dharma still in existence, and Ben & gang are fooling them into thinking the project is still ok on the island? Or has Ben's brainwashing hostile takeover extended outside of the island to the point of taking over control of Dharma's external apparatus? That might explain why the food drops and stuff still function.

I think the C4 was rigged by Eyepatch. Dharma had nothing to do with it. I don't think it was triggered by John typing 77 either. If you recall the translation of the Russian spoken between Ms. Klugh and Eyepatch, I think Eyepatch triggered the explosion.

I'd have to go back and watch, but didn't John type in "77" earlier in the show and nothing happened?

I'd have to go back and watch, but didn't John type in "77" earlier in the show and nothing happened?
No, Mikhail put a knife to his throat just before he was about to hit "77" which was the only thing that prevented Locke from killing them all.

Despite this, could Locke have looked any stupider in this episode? Mikhail starts bashing Sayid and Kate all over the living room for a minute while Locke is playing with the computer, and only peeks out with his gun after the whole thing was over. He swears no one else in in the building since he "checked every nook and cranny" (next to the computer, under the computer, around the computer) only to have Sayid immediately show him what a great job he did. Then while Mikhail is pretending to be unconcious and barely restrained, Locke runs back to his little chess game again like a teenage geek.

Then at the end he friggin gives Sayid this priceless explanation for blowing the place up:

The computer said if there was an incursion by the hostiles, I should enter 7-7 so I entered 7-7.
Good God, Locke sounded just like one of those clueless people who wipe out their computers right after they stumble upon the FORMAT command in the manual.

Good God, Locke sounded just like one of those clueless people who wipe out their computers right after they stumble upon the FORMAT command in the manual.

Yeah, ain't DOS a b*tch?

Don't forget about the map on the blast door. Too bad they never did anything with that.

Speaking of, has anyone looked back at that map to see if The Flame is on it? If it is, it shows they at least are close to a season ahead on plot specifics.

way back at post #14360 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7401584&&#post7401584) (3/30/06)...

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/blastDoorMapOverlay.jpg

I think it's completely in Locke's character to make stupid mistakes. This has been reiterated again and again in his character's flashbacks, including being described as "amenable to coercion" by the undercover cop. So, not surprising that when an official looking guy in white lab coat tells him to do something, he does it.

Locke would probably be instantly converted to Other-ness if they ever got a hold of him and dropped him in the brainwashing room.

By the way that reminds me, when the Others had the lists made of "good" people does that mean they're the ones that would be good for brainwashing?

Spoiler removed from this morning.

You guys will have to send me a PM if some people keep posting spoilers. I don't check this thread until usually the night after it airs, so I may miss some in that time period.

Some other things we learned in this episode:

What the cable going into the water on the beach was for.

Ben was probably not joking when he said he has lived on the island his whole life - the "hostiles" pre-date Dharma.

Dharma-submarine exists!

Where Other-burgers come from.

Why Kelvin was stuck in the Swan for so long with no relief - Dharma got taken over.

Why Kelvin's partner used invisible paint for his blast door map - didn't want the hostiles to be able to find it.

Some other things we learned in this episode:

...

Or he was pulling a Keyser Soze on them and just making the whole thing up!

Ben was probably not joking when he said he has lived on the island his whole life - the "hostiles" pre-date Dharma.

I'm confused. Why would we put Ben's group with the hostiles while the Flame folks with Dharma. The woman who was killed was at both places (Kate saw her), making her seem part of both groups.

- Tom

I'm confused. Why would we put Ben's group with the hostiles while the Flame folks with Dharma. The woman who was killed was at both places (Kate saw her), making her seem part of both groups.

- Tom

There are no more Dharma people on the Island, at least that we know of. Both characters at the Flame station were Others/Hostiles. More and more it's looking like The Others vanquished the Dharma researchers, perhaps in the "incident" 20 or so years ago. Which doesn't explain the continuing resupply drops, but that's another shoe to be "dropped" at some point.

There are no more Dharma people on the Island, at least that we know of. Both characters at the Flame station were Others/Hostiles. More and more it's looking like The Others vanquished the Dharma researchers, perhaps in the "incident" 20 or so years ago. Which doesn't explain the continuing resupply drops, but that's another shoe to be "dropped" at some point.
That's clearly not the case. Juliet, at the very least, is certainly part of Dharma, Hanso, or some other division. Of course, she appears to be there against her will. Now, whether that means she's simply unhappy with her career path or she is a captive of the "insurgents" remains to be seen.

As far as the drops, it's possible those are automatic - at least for food and other essentials. I'm not sure how you go about ordering a washer and dryer.

While I agree this was the best episode THIS season, it still fell flat for me. I get frustrated. I think most people, in Lock's position, when Kate says "Lock, let's go" and he says "Just a minute", he probably should have said something like: "Kate, Sayid, get in here. Check this out. Bring in the Russian, maybe he can better explain. What do you guys think? Enter 7-7 or not". Maybe at that time, Sayid would have had the opportunity to say "Locke, leave it be. This entire building is wired with C-4. Remember what happened to the other hatch? We know where this building is, there is meat in the fridge and animals we can use. I'll come back and look at the wiring of the C4 and dismantle, then we can proceed with the inner workings of this location"

But, that's not in character of this show as nobody talks to each other. It's like everyone has their own agenda.

As I've said in numerous posts, look at the thread from season 1 and 2. The morning after he show aired, I had a hard time making it through all the posts because there were already pages and pages of them. Today is Friday, and I only had to sift through about 3 pages of posts where last year, it was more like 7 or 8 pages. That tells me that we've lost many viewers or that the show has performed a 180 from it's original INTELLIGENT writing, and there just isn't much to talk about regarding season 3. I'd say both probably, but mostly the latter.

As I've said in numerous posts, look at the thread from season 1 and 2. The morning after he show aired, I had a hard time making it through all the posts because there were already pages and pages of them. Today is Friday, and I only had to sift through about 3 pages of posts where last year, it was more like 7 or 8 pages. That tells me that we've lost many viewers or that the show has performed a 180 from it's original INTELLIGENT writing, and there just isn't much to talk about regarding season 3. I'd say both probably, but mostly the latter.

OR, many folks may have gotten tired of all the complaining about the show that gets posted here anymore, because the show didn't go they way they thought it should, or they just have to second guess the writing. ;)

Almost need a Bitching tag similiar to the spoiler tags lately. :D

Deadly germs are flooding the beach area and the plane folks have to pick up and move across the island. They travel for days with most of the people kicking the bucket from the deadly germs unleashed by Locke in one of his crazy button pushing modes. The doctor is one of the first to go. Finally, the only people left are Locke, the Korean couple, Hugo, Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, Juliet, the rock star, and the girl and her baby. They're climbing up an enormous mountain with half of them claiming they can't go any further and want to die where they lay. Sayid screams at them, "Do you know I was a torturer in the Republican Guard?! If you don't get up I'll boil your hands!" Everyone starts moving and they eventually near the peak.
As the reach the summit, the camera pans to their faces and we see an incredulous look of disbelief on their faces. Slowly, ever so slowly, the camera pans 180 degrees from their faces and we see the view down the mountain. Off in the distance at the foot of the mountain is a giant modern city with high-rises, millions of cars and people, buildings--you name it.
The plane folks start laughing, crying, yelling and screaming as they run down the mountain to the city. A short time later, they reach a highway curving around the mountain. There's no traffic and Locke runs onto the road yelling, "It's real!" Just as he finishes, a giant truck roars around the curve and runs over Locke. The plane folks look on in disbelief and the camera ever so slowly zooms in on the front of the truck with Locke, dead, underneath. The camera stops so the license plate is clearly legible. The numbers on the plate are the Hugo bad luck lottery numbers. The license plate is from....Hawaii.......

That's clearly not the case. Juliet, at the very least, is certainly part of Dharma, Hanso, or some other division.

Huh? "...clearly; certainly..."? How you figure? Has she ever said anything about being part of the Dharma Initiative or the Hanso Foundation? How can you automatically connect Mittleos, or whatever it was called, with Dharma or Hanso? It could be that the Others are part of an organization diametrically opposed to Dharma or Hanso (and there's plenty of evidence to support that). We simply don't know...yet.

As I've said in numerous posts, look at the thread from season 1 and 2. The morning after he show aired, I had a hard time making it through all the posts because there were already pages and pages of them. Today is Friday, and I only had to sift through about 3 pages of posts where last year, it was more like 7 or 8 pages. That tells me that we've lost many viewers or that the show has performed a 180 from it's original INTELLIGENT writing, and there just isn't much to talk about regarding season 3. I'd say both probably, but mostly the latter.

There's also the increased Tivo factor that comes from bumping the show to 10pm. If the bulk of posts occur in the first 24 hours, and you don't watch the show until after that point, you lose all the back and forth posts from those delayed viewers. And while someone may respond to 10% of the posts if they watched it "live", if they delay viewing, they won't go back through 300 posts that happened in that 24 hour period and quote/respond to 30 of them.

But I'd agree that the plot/writing doesn't raise as many questions or as much speculation as it once did.

There's also the increased Tivo factor that comes from bumping the show to 10pm. If the bulk of posts occur in the first 24 hours, and you don't watch the show until after that point, you lose all the back and forth posts from those delayed viewers. And while someone may respond to 10% of the posts if they watched it "live", if they delay viewing, they won't go back through 300 posts that happened in that 24 hour period and quote/respond to 30 of them.

But I'd agree that the plot/writing doesn't raise as many questions or as much speculation as it once did.

That's true. I guess many won't have time to watch the DVR until the weekend, so my statement should be retracted as there would be no way to determine if there were more or less posts as we don't know when everyone watched the show.

way back at post #14360 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7401584&&#post7401584) (3/30/06)...

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/blastDoorMapOverlay.jpg

Maybe I'm confused and if so, please correct me. In this last episode I think they stressed the point about how far they walked when Sayid says to Locke that "they've been walking for two days". Struck me as weird because the beach stuff didn't seem that two days had gone by and stuff never moves that fast on Lost. Then I look at the map and things really don't make sense. It looks like the Flame is closer than the Hospital station to the Swan. It certainly didn't take days to get to the Hospital station, they went back and forth within the same day.

Usually the writers stick to known facts pretty closely but this just feels wrong,

That's true. I guess many won't have time to watch the DVR until the weekend, so my statement should be retracted as there would be no way to determine if there were more or less posts as we don't know when everyone watched the show.

I don't think there's any doubt that there is significantly less speculation and analysis compared to the first season.

As far as the Tivo impact, I can only speak for myself - but I assume there are others in the same boat. I used to watch the same night (in fact, watched it live, commercials and all in the theater) and now watch the next evening because of the start time - and my posting in this thread has dropped off.

I don't think there's any doubt that there is significantly less speculation and analysis compared to the first season.

As far as the Tivo impact, I can only speak for myself - but I assume there are others in the same boat. I used to watch the same night (in fact, watched it live, commercials and all in the theater) and now watch the next evening because of the start time - and my posting in this thread has dropped off.

Theres only so much analyzing and theorizing you can do when they with-hold answers for 3 seasons...I've gotten sick of trying to read every single little detail about Lost and just watch the show for entertainment factor...the plot holes are immense but when you don't think about it (i.e.: American Idol style), the show flows and is entertaining :)

Huh? "...clearly; certainly..."? How you figure? Has she ever said anything about being part of the Dharma Initiative or the Hanso Foundation? How can you automatically connect Mittleos, or whatever it was called, with Dharma or Hanso? It could be that the Others are part of an organization diametrically opposed to Dharma or Hanso (and there's plenty of evidence to support that). We simply don't know...yet.
Because the implication is the "Hostiles" were already on the island and Dharma came from outside. We know Juliet came from off the island. In addition, every film and facility related to Dharma indicates they do a great deal of research. The division that recruited Juliet was into biological research. They indicated they were from Minnesota or somewhere (I can't remember where), then recanted and said they weren't exactly from there. I think it's safe to assume they meant they were from the island. Therefore, it stands to reason they are part of Dharma.

It seems odd that two separate opposing research organizations would pick the same island and build facilities there. Why go to an uncharted island if someone else already has set up shop there? Inhabitants just living there already are one thing - another covert operation is another.

Besides, every facility we have seen so far has Dharma logos all over it. If this "other" group was another research group, where are their facilities? Wouldn't Desmond or his predecessor have stumbled across something and charted it if anything else was there?

esides, every facility we have seen so far has Dharma logos all over it. If this "other" group was another research group, where are their facilities? Wouldn't Desmond or his predecessor have stumbled across something and charted it if anything else was there?


And what about 3 toed statues?

And what about 3 toed statues?
What about it? That's not a research facility. There are plenty of "tourist attractions" around the island, but I'm addressing the idea that there might be two research organizations dueling it out there. Statues, ships, etc. could all be attributed to people who have existed there long before technology showed up.

Because the implication is the "Hostiles" were already on the island and Dharma came from outside. We know Juliet came from off the island. In addition, every film and facility related to Dharma indicates they do a great deal of research. The division that recruited Juliet was into biological research. They indicated they were from Minnesota or somewhere (I can't remember where), then recanted and said they weren't exactly from there. I think it's safe to assume they meant they were from the island. Therefore, it stands to reason they are part of Dharma.

Objection! The witness is speculating. ;)

It seems odd that two separate opposing research organizations would pick the same island and build facilities there. Why go to an uncharted island if someone else already has set up shop there? Inhabitants just living there already are one thing - another covert operation is another.

Dharma went to the Island to do research because of its unique electromagnetic properties. They may have finished their construction and commenced operations before ever even discovering The Others. We simply don't know yet.

Besides, every facility we have seen so far has Dharma logos all over it. If this "other" group was another research group, where are their facilities? Wouldn't Desmond or his predecessor have stumbled across something and charted it if anything else was there?

Not necessarily. Danielle is pretty resourceful and had been on the Island for 16 years without ever stumbling across The Flame station or its livestock. It's a big island.

And what about 3 toed statues?

The mysterious statue had 4 toes.

Not necessarily. Danielle is pretty resourceful and had been on the Island for 16 years without ever stumbling across The Flame station. It's a big island.
Actually, she never said she hadn't stumbled across it. She walked up, then started heading back off into the jungle when she realized what Sayid was up to. The only thing she said was that she had lasted as long as she did by avoiding confrontations - well, except for that whole "confronting her (supposedly insane)crew and killing them" thing. At any rate, she actively avoided areas of the island where there tended to be other people.

Dharma and the "opposition" seem to have taken a more active interest in one another and didn't avoid confrontation.

In this case, assuming the various firms (Dharma, Hanso, Whitmor, Mittleos) are part of one big entity is just as valid as - and more likely than - assuming another group of mad scientists having the same secret volcano lair. Actually, I'll be quite disappointed if the producers fall on that as a crutch.

Honestly, for all we know, eye patch guy was lying and the other people we've seen really are Dharma. Eye patch guy may have been a "hostile" pretending to be part of Dharma. Miss Clue could have been infiltrating Dharma the same way Ethan infiltrated the Losties.

Then I look at the map and things really don't make sense. It looks like the Flame is closer than the Hospital station to the Swan. It certainly didn't take days to get to the Hospital station, they went back and forth within the same day,
I think the map isn't drawn to scale. It's seems like more of a simplified schematic of the layout of the hatches than an actual map. The Staff may be closer to the question mark, more directly north of the Swan, while the Flame is miles farther west closer to the beach for the sonar cable.

Because the implication is the "Hostiles" were already on the island and Dharma came from outside. We know Juliet came from off the island. In addition, every film and facility related to Dharma indicates they do a great deal of research. The division that recruited Juliet was into biological research. They indicated they were from Minnesota or somewhere (I can't remember where), then recanted and said they weren't exactly from there. I think it's safe to assume they meant they were from the island. Therefore, it stands to reason they are part of Dharma.

It seems odd that two separate opposing research organizations would pick the same island and build facilities there. Why go to an uncharted island if someone else already has set up shop there? Inhabitants just living there already are one thing - another covert operation is another.

Besides, every facility we have seen so far has Dharma logos all over it. If this "other" group was another research group, where are their facilities? Wouldn't Desmond or his predecessor have stumbled across something and charted it if anything else was there?

The island has some mystical/ strategic importance and therefore it does make sense that perhaps two or even several groups would look to secure the secrets.

Actually, she never said she hadn't stumbled across it.


Actually, she did. I believe her exact words were, "I have never been to this place before."

Actually, she did. I believe her exact words were, "I have never been to this place before."
I may be wrong, but I thought she said "I have seen this place before."

no she said she had never seen that place before... and later she said she had no interest in the place or who cyclops was, because she had survived on the island "precisely by avoiding encounters such as this". I have my doubts though that she's telling the truth, and somehow, in the end, there'll be a major revelation that she isn't who she says she is. I dont doubt her daughter is Alex, but obviously she knows Ben more than she's letting on to the Losties, from the fact that they probably produced her together, and that when she caught him in the net, she didnt kill him or take him off with her into the jungle, it was almost as if they staged that so the Losties would come, get him, and bring him into their camp.

Besides, every facility we have seen so far has Dharma logos all over it. If this "other" group was another research group, where are their facilities? Wouldn't Desmond or his predecessor have stumbled across something and charted it if anything else was there?


I think Dharma is dead...the question is: Does Hanso know this? They are still dropping pallets of supplies to them, so it's likely they don't...

Just because the logos are everywhere doesn't mean Dharma still functions...it just means they never bothered to remove the logos.

Actually, she never said she hadn't stumbled across it.


She actually said the words "I've never seen this place before"....

The island supposedly is a difficult place to get to. Dharma may have lost all contact with the island. They may not know if their people are alive or dead. They may not want to leave them without means to survive, so they send regularly scheduled food and supplies via air drop just in case someone is still alive.

Here's my some dumb theory: the Dharma organization doesn't realize the Hostiles have taken over the Dharma facilities on the island.

Perhaps the Hostiles attacked Dharma and recruited one or two of the survivors (Mikhail for example, since he's in charge of communcations with Dharma in the outside world) and has been fooling the state-side operations that all is well and to keep sending more people and supplies to assist them in their research. All they had to do was continue to follow Dharma's highly documented procedures. New recruits may not even know these people aren't really Dharma. Juiliet may have been recruited thinking she was going to a pleasant tropical research facility and discovered too late that it become taken over by a lunatic. This is kind of like the SD-6 organization in Alias: you're not doing research for who you think you are.

The "Hostiles" could have been a previous research organization that got trapped there like everybody else. They didn't have to have a permanent facility if they weren't planning on being there for long, just a ship (or a submarine) and a few tents. The Dharma people may have been drawn to the island by the disappearance of the previous research group.

She actually said the words "I've never seen this place before"....
I stand corrected. When I viewed the episode, I was more focused on how readily she was bailing on the group when checking out a single outpost, yet perfectly willing to take on an entire camp to get to her daughter. It seems she only avoids confrontations when it suits her and her alone.

I dont doubt her daughter is Alex, but obviously she knows Ben more than she's letting on to the Losties, from the fact that they probably produced her together, and that when she caught him in the net, she didnt kill him or take him off with her into the jungle, it was almost as if they staged that so the Losties would come, get him, and bring him into their camp.

I mulled this over in my head this morning. I keep wondering if she really did kill her crew, or if Ben and company were part of her crew and simply bailed on her. Maybe the French crew was/is Dharma.

The island has some mystical/ strategic importance and therefore it does make sense that perhaps two or even several groups would look to secure the secrets.

Don't you all think that the RUSSIAN language could be a major, so-obvious-it-should-smack-you-Gibbs-style-on-the-back-of-the-head, clue about what's going on? (Not to mention the reference to the "Cold War") ;) :D

... but then again, this is "Lost" ... it could be just a big red-herring :D

I think the map isn't drawn to scale. It's seems like more of a simplified schematic of the layout of the hatches than an actual map. The Staff may be closer to the question mark, more directly north of the Swan, while the Flame is miles farther west closer to the beach for the sonar cable.

I can believe not to scale but things in switched places. The ? mark was the watching hatch that was under the old plane. Again, easily gotten to within a day if not hours.

Does anyone recall the "walking for two days" comment. Perhaps I am mistaken. Two days have never just gone by in Lost before, have they?

Here's my some dumb theory: the Dharma organization doesn't realize the Hostiles have taken over the Dharma facilities on the island.

Perhaps the Hostiles attacked Dharma and recruited one or two of the survivors (Mikhail for example, since he's in charge of communcations with Dharma in the outside world) and has been fooling the state-side operations that all is well and to keep sending more people and supplies to assist them in their research. All they had to do was continue to follow Dharma's highly documented procedures. New recruits may not even know these people aren't really Dharma. Juiliet may have been recruited thinking she was going to a pleasant tropical research facility and discovered too late that it become taken over by a lunatic. This is kind of like the SD-6 organization in Alias: you're not doing research for who you think you are.

The "Hostiles" could have been a previous research organization that got trapped there like everybody else. They didn't have to have a permanent facility if they weren't planning on being there for long, just a ship (or a submarine) and a few tents. The Dharma people may have been drawn to the island by the disappearance of the previous research group.
That's not bad, although one theory could also be that Dharma doesn't care. While they aren't performing the original research, they've stumbled on a whole new project. The let the Losties, the Hostiles, and anyone else do their thing just to study them - perhaps to see how they react to black smoke monsters, weird magnetics and other oddities...