No one here thinks that was a Jack clone playing football?
I'm hoping this show will steer away from the cheesier plot lines we saw on Alias.

No one here thinks that was a Jack clone playing football? Whatever happened to that theory..


No, that was the original Jack. The one we've been watching all this time was the clone.


.


:D

No, that was the original Jack. The one we've been watching all this time was the clone.


.


:D

People are talking about the Clone theory again....I'm getting misty just thinking back to those days :-)

There's been what...3-4 days passed since Kate and Sawyer returned? That's not enough time for them to brainwash Jack considering he has to look after Ben--you don't want your doctor's mind all mushy lol.

Maybe the others knew they were coming to rescue Jack after the security fence was tripped, and perhaps the others were going to kill them, but Jack told them he could convince them that a resue wasn't necessary and they'd leave?...so they put on the football act hoping it would get them to believe he was in no danger and they could simply return to the beach...I don't know, its a theory LOL

Maybe Ben died and Jack is a hero to the Others.

Neat, thanks!

Now I wonder if the shooting locale for Lost contributed to its popularity a bit. JP was a such a hugely popular movie (series), and Lost had/has such a supernatural/fantastical slant...I wonder if the locale and the appearance of the "monster" (which was never seen in the early going) made people think of the dinosuars in JP and the movie in general.

Of course, it's gone on to be much more than that...but I can't be the only one that sees these scenes and gets a warm-fuzzy feeling based on watching JP before.

Most of the Jurasic Park open field scenes were filmed on the East Side of Kauai. The Gate is to the West and the Waterfall Landing pad is further to the Southwest on the Island.



http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5055/eastkauaiox1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



Lost is using the area on the North Shore of Oahu West of Hale'iwa (where Baywatch Hawaii was also based :D ).



http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/277/northshorekf7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Just a post not related to recent shows here, but an observation.

I was in Lowes the other day, and I noticed the sound of the self-scan register was a lot like the beeping of the numbers clock in the now deceased swan hatch.

Something else I've noticed - the black cloud sounds a lot like a credit card receipt printer. This was especially noticeable last season when the cloud was staring down Echo.

It seems like the sound guys for the show get their sounds from retail equipment.

Anyone else notice those sounds in public and think about Lost?

Anyone else notice those sounds in public and think about Lost?
Actually, now that you mention it....



...no.



I worked at McDonald's in college. I've been conditioned to ignore things that go "beep".

Something else I've noticed - the black cloud sounds a lot like a credit card receipt printer. This was especially noticeable last season when the cloud was staring down Echo.
Actually, this sound is very prominent in a Locke flashback, too. I think when he is working in the (Hurley's?) box factory (probably season 1).

It's also fairly prominent when Jack first enters the Swan hatch, I don't remember hearing the sound in the hatch after that.

Something else I've noticed - the black cloud sounds a lot like a credit card receipt printer. This was especially noticeable last season when the cloud was staring down Echo.

It seems like the sound guys for the show get their sounds from retail equipment.



in a podcast one of the LOST producers said the sound was taken from a NY taxicab receipt printer

for some reason I keep thinking that the Mark Juliet got after her trial has something to do with the sonic barriers...

I still think they are supposed to keep the Others IN the area. However, if you consider that the bulk of facilities are underground and that there may be some sort of virus on the island, that complicates it. Or makes more sense haha

I read in Entertainment Weekly that the sound that "smokey" makes is a combination of mechanical things, I cannot remember the exact things, but the sound has evolved since the first time we heard it. It changes depending on the scene or the situation and is constantly being "re-invented".

A couple of observations on the last ep:
First, now we can add Claire to the list of Losties who have either killed someone outright (Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Sayid), or by their actions indirectly caused somebody's death (Jack, Hurley, Sun). I used to think that was the only criteria for not "being on the list", but Eyepatch told us that more mundane shortcomings like anger and fear also "disqualify" you.



Interesting, considering that some of the Others have anger management issues themselves. Like whats-his-name, who wanted so badly to kill Sawyer.

His position? Wide receiver.

Yep...Jack's definitely a catcher...not a pitcher :-)

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out but why couldn't they just run past the security fence? When Captain Hook was pushed in between the fence, it didn't kill him right away and they were standing pretty close and weren't affected. So couldn't they just run threw?

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out but why couldn't they just run past the security fence? When Captain Hook was pushed in between the fence, it didn't kill him right away and they were standing pretty close and weren't affected. So couldn't they just run threw?

How would they have known that? :confused:

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out but why couldn't they just run past the security fence? When Captain Hook was pushed in between the fence, it didn't kill him right away and they were standing pretty close and weren't affected. So couldn't they just run threw?
Maybe the effect is directional - toward the inside. That's why I don't buy that it keeps anyone in. Perhaps only approaching from the outside triggers it. Since you'd be inside once you cross the fence, it makes sense the effects would be directed there. On the other hand, cross from the inside out and nothing happens. By only having the effect just inside the perimeter, you're outside of it should it accidently trigger as you leave. Just make sure everyone steps through together, though...

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out but why couldn't they just run past the security fence? When Captain Hook was pushed in between the fence, it didn't kill him right away and they were standing pretty close and weren't affected. So couldn't they just run threw?

My assumption was that as soon as you hit the fence, the waves made you unable to move...Locke pushed patchy in, but when he hit the fence his momentum stopped.

Who really knows though.

implants inside them go off from the sonic fence? (not boobie implants har har)

Something else I've noticed - the black cloud sounds a lot like a credit card receipt printer.
Anyone else notice those sounds in public and think about Lost?
Actually, now that you mention it....
...no.
I worked at McDonald's in college. I've been conditioned to ignore things that go "beep".

You will notice now. :D
Is it Wednesday yet?

You will notice now. :D
Is it Wednesday yet?
Nope. If I can block out bars and tone ripping from edit and control rooms loudly enough to wake James Stockdale, I can block out anything...





Hmm. That's the second obscure reference I've made on AVS today alone.

Does anyone know of a website that has LARGE images from LOST? Large enough for a 1920x1200 sized screen. After googling I found countless lousy websites with 1024x768 images and some 1280x1024, but nothing in 1920x1200.

Nope. If I can block out bars and tone ripping from edit and control rooms loudly enough to wake James Stockdale, I can block out anything...





Hmm. That's the second obscure reference I've made on AVS today alone.
"Who am I? Why am I here?" :D

I think it's the other way around...she was dyeing her hair black in some kind of teenage rebellion against 'the man' :-) I think the drapes match the carpet now.

Damn that Locke for blowing up the hatch. No shower scene for verification!

Damn that Locke for blowing up the hatch. No shower scene for verification!

I'd pay good money to see that particular Deleted Scene on Pay Per View :-)

Does anyone know of a website that has LARGE images from LOST? Large enough for a 1920x1200 sized screen. After googling I found countless lousy websites with 1024x768 images and some 1280x1024, but nothing in 1920x1200.

Screencaps? Since the show broadcasts in 720p, you aren't going to find anything over 1280x720 that hasn't been scaled up. If you are looking for publicity stills, you might have better luck scanning magazine images. (Your local Kinkos probably has a photo-quality scanner.)

Do you just want them for background images on your PC, or are you making posters?

ABC.com has some 1280x960 wallpapers, but you probably already looked there.

Oooooh, the anticipation grows... How did it happen? Will we really find out? After all this time.... it better be good! ;)



ron

Oooooh, the anticipation grows... How did it happen? Will we really find out? After all this time.... it better be good! ;)



ron

I have a feeling it'll be a let-down.

Is John gonna go postal at the end, with a little slab of C4? He is going to do whatever it takes to prevent returning to his hellish formal life.

Before he came to the island John Locke was the stupidest fu*king fool who walked the face of the earth. Let's not tell the police what's going on but go confront a possible killer in his home?!

He deserved to get tossed out that window. Idiot.

So, John's father was a con man.

Knowing that everyone on the island is intertwined with everyone else, anybody want to bet that his father is the real Sawyer? The one that conned young James Ford's parents?

Scott

Whoa! Didn't see that coming. Great ending!

BEST EPISODE OF THE SEASON UNTIL....

JUMP the shark occured! :rolleyes:

OK, let me make this clear. We cannot, repeat cannot let John Locke around anything that can blow up ever again.

....and his dad is definitely NOT going to get a Father's Day card.

I really enjoyed that episode. Sure, Locke was a complete idiot in his pre-island life, but at least tonight he showed some initiative. He is still being manipulated, but he's at least attempted to act on his own a bit. And the preview for next week looks great. We might finally get to see Nikki and Paulo serve their purpose and get axed.

BEST EPISODE OF THE SEASON UNTIL....

JUMP the shark occured! :rolleyes:

What, you don't like magic boxes???? :eek:

Great episode.

I did not see Locke falling 8 stories out of an apartment window as the way he broke his back...

I thought that the young kid who came to see Lock would've hit him with a car or something...after the conman left, his mother would commit suicide, and the young kid was get revenge on locke...even though it was his fault all along.

Guess that's what I get for 'thinking' ;). ABCs way was much better though.

I thought that ending was awesome. Brought back the mistery of the first season.

So is that really his father, or some kind of projection/image?

What, you don't like magic boxes???? :eek:Just another gimmick to add another season......

simply awesome. That was awesome. I jumped out of my chair twice!

Does anyone know of a website that has LARGE images from LOST? Large enough for a 1920x1200 sized screen. After googling I found countless lousy websites with 1024x768 images and some 1280x1024, but nothing in 1920x1200.

I think you will have a hard time finding that resolution, as LOST is shown in HD at 1280X720 resolution :)

There were some HD screen captures in this thread, I put a couple up a while back of the large foot statue.

Wow !! What a "let down" !

Once we heard about the scam John's father was putting over on the woman, I figured John would have some sort of confrontation with him resulting in spinal injury. I kinda figured a gunshot wound, though.

And I didn't expect dear old Dad to be in the chair under Benry's lock & key, either.

Sweet ep. Things actually happened.

So is that really his father, or some kind of projection/image?
not a projection, he's the man from Tallahassee.
...
I have no idea what that means by the way. :D

Once we heard about the scam John's father was putting over on the woman, I figured John would have some sort of confrontation with him resulting in spinal injury. I kinda figured a gunshot wound, though.

And I didn't expect dear old Dad to be in the chair under Benry's lock & key, either.

Sweet ep. Things actually happened.

What if Locke's dad is still playing Locke, in cahoots with Ben?

Just another gimmick to add another season......

Whoa, you must be psychic! :eek:

ABC renews LOST:

http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11750

Great episode IMO! Answers? You want answers? You got (some) answers!

Wasn't Sawyer from Tallahassee?


Overall, I'm excited to finally see how it happened...but it was slightly anti-climatic...you knew what was going to happen...

HOWEVER, when Locke says, "You better hope a submarine fits in that magic box" I almost died laughing...that was so well executed, pure comedic genius...

You really can't say they aren't trying to answer questions...they have moved the plot a long and are tying up loose ends...

I must say I believe Season 4 should be the last season...I just don't see how they can prolong it another 2 seasons without absolutely infuriating every single viewer...

Usually people born in Tallahassee do not have Sawyer's southern style accent, albeit Florida is the south.

I have to admit that I was a bit skeptical when the producers made the claim that, for every question asked in Lost, they already knew the answer. But now that we're in full swing again I really do believe they have the majority of all the questions mapped out. Each week seems to capitalize on the previous, and I'm not finding myself bored like I was during the fall mini-series featuring Jack, Kate, and Sawyer. I hope they can keep this momentum all the way up to the season finale.

Before he came to the island John Locke was the stupidest fu*king fool who walked the face of the earth. Let's not tell the police what's going on but go confront a possible killer in his home?!

He deserved to get tossed out that window. Idiot.

They still have him being a tool...following the bread crumbs that other, smarter people lay out for him....

Wasn't Sawyer from Tallahassee?


I had to google this, but in a previous episode Sawyer tells Jack "You may have been to Phuket, Doc, but I've been to Tallahassee."

I'd say the odds of Locke's father being the con man who destroyed young James Ford's life are about 95%. It's something that occurred to me previously, because Locke had taken interest in Sawyer's name in a previous episode. Because of that and the whole "Man from Tallahassee" bit, I saw the end coming (not bragging, just saying).

I'm interested in the explanation how Locke's father got on the island... I hope they don't string that out too long.

Wasn't Sawyer from Tallahassee?





From Lostpedia

* Kate was buying a ticket to Tallahassee when apprehended by U.S. Marshal Edward Mars, who describes the city as nothing but "strip malls and Waffle Houses."
* Sawyer implied to Jack that he contracted a communicable disease in Tallahassee ("Let's say something was burnin' and it wasn't from the sunshine.").

They joked in the most recent podcast about how everyone from Tallahassee must hate them now...

P.S. Why was Locke totally soaked when returning from the sub? He didn't get wet going in...

Puhlease. Magic box anyone?

Ben: I can't blow up the submarine or "my people" will get on my ass. So I just rig a station full of C4 guarded by a one-eyed maniac, let you to steal it, sit back and wait for you to come back and blow up the sub for me. I'm a fricking evil genius!

Oh yeah, I have your daddy in the magic box. Wanna see?

Actually, to the technically inclined in magnetic research, Tallahassee is a VERY important place. Those magnetic fields would explain a lot of things on the island.
I was interested in this place back in the day, and with the parallels to the Philadelphia experiment, it seems like there may even be other tie-ins to the show later - or maybe not.

FYI, for those interested in very high magnetic field research...
http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/mediacenter/factsheets/overview.html
A Mag Lab Overview
The only facility of its kind in the United States, the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory (less formally known as the Magnet Lab) is the largest and highest-powered magnet laboratory in the world, headquartered in a sprawling 330,000-square-foot complex near Florida State University in Tallahassee. The lab also includes sites at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and the University of Florida in Gainesville. Together these three institutions operate the lab, collaborating in a unique, interdisciplinary way to further science, engineering and technology in the 21st century.

Established by the National Science Foundation in 1990, the lab is a national resource open to both curious visitors and world-renowned scientists. Centralizing the country’s greatest magnet-related tools, resources and expertise is not only efficient and cost-effective, but also encourages fruitful, collaborative research at the highest level. Every year, more than 900 visiting scientists and engineers from across the world conduct experiments using our state-of-the-art equipment. Our magnets are far larger, far more powerful and far more complex than the everyday magnets most people are familiar with. Many were designed, developed and built by our magnet engineering and design team, widely recognized as the finest in the world.

These magnets produce tremendous magnetic fields, prized by researchers who use them to study a wide range of materials and processes. Our most powerful magnets produce fields more than a million times stronger than the Earth’s magnetic field. What happens in experiments under such conditions give scientists important insights that pave the way for advances in physics, biology, bioengineering, chemistry, geochemistry, biochemistry, materials science and engineering.<Snip>
continued at link provided

vegggas

Think there's any chance that was Locke falling out the building while Hurley was talking to his accountant?

Wow. Now that episode brought some of what I've been missing about Lost.

Now I don't believe Locke's dad came from a magic box. I don't think he came voluntarily, but I assume he was brought to the island to be a part of a long con with Ben.

I believe Ben was speaking the truth when he talked about the island with Locke, but half truths. Just like when he told Jack he would let them go... once Jack was off the island, when he knew the sub was about to go boom.

Such a great episode!

Lost is Back! Bigger & Better than ever. Great episode last night & thanks for explaining how John Locke ended up in a wheel-chair.

Now if we could only find out what that 4-toed thingy is...

Think there's any chance that was Locke falling out the building while Hurley was talking to his accountant?

Wow, hey good catch (well, actually no catch at all since he fell all the way and broke his back).

If true, it would be another tie in that was actually planned. Can anyone with the DVD set, and familiar with the skyline of Tallahassee confirm that?

So, the "anomaly" caused a disruption of the communications channels, and in reality nobody could leave the island (and get back). So now everyone is truly "Lost"? That should make for some interesting discussions with Ben's people.

Who was that with Tom that called Ben "Dad"?

Does anyone think Ben was ever planning on letting Jack and Juliet leave alive? I noticed that when Locke was hiding in the closet, Ben abruptly cut his henchman off when he started saying how "What about Juliet and Sheppard, tomorrow they.."

Puhlease. Magic box anyone?

Ben: I can't blow up the submarine or "my people" will get on my ass. So I just rig a station full of C4 guarded by a one-eyed maniac, let you to steal it, sit back and wait for you to come back and blow up the sub for me. I'm a fricking evil genius!

Oh yeah, I have your daddy in the magic box. Wanna see?
And the sub (our lifeline) is left unattended and unlocked for anyone to steal or blow up :rolleyes:

Wow, hey good catch (well, actually no catch at all since he fell all the way and broke his back).

If true, it would be another tie in that was actually planned. Can anyone with the DVD set, and familiar with the skyline of Tallahassee confirm that?

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/1219/lost11809200037tb.th.jpg (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=lost11809200037tb.jpg) http://img57.exs.cx/img57/4548/lost11809200017hu.th.jpg (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=lost11809200017hu.jpg)
Hard to tell, though the clothes look similar to what Locke was wearing last night. Surely not definitive. The buildings are not an exact match, but it could be from a different perspective.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/bharral/fall.jpg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/bharral/fall.jpg)

Now I don't believe Locke's dad came from a magic box. I don't think he came voluntarily, but I assume he was brought to the island to be a part of a long con with Ben.

I'm guessing the island brought him there. (ie, Ben had nothing to do with Locke's dad showing up).

The island has done some nice things for Locke.

Wow, hey good catch (well, actually no catch at all since he fell all the way and broke his back).

If true, it would be another tie in that was actually planned. Can anyone with the DVD set, and familiar with the skyline of Tallahassee confirm that?
I seem to remember the falling guy was wearing a dark suit. Locke wasn't.

Edit, looking at the stills, I may not be remembering correctly. Perhaps I was thinking of the pants.

Edit again: I don't thing it's the same building. I didn't see any indication of another building across from it - at least as close as one was in the Hurley flashback.

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/1219/lost11809200037tb.th.jpg (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=lost11809200037tb.jpg) http://img57.exs.cx/img57/4548/lost11809200017hu.th.jpg (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=lost11809200017hu.jpg)
Hard to tell, though the clothes look similar to what Locke was wearing last night. Surely not definitive. The buildings are not an exact match, but it could be from a different perspective.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/bharral/fall.jpg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/bharral/fall.jpg)

That looks more like a guy in a suit, but I think they could easily pass that off as Locke.

...

Who was that with Tom that called Ben "Dad"?

Wasn't that "Sally Slingshot"? Was that someone else? I gotta watch that bit again !

I seem to remember the falling guy was wearing a dark suit. Locke wasn't.

Edit, looking at the stills, I may not be remembering correctly. Perhaps I was thinking of the pants.

Edit again: I don't thing it's the same building. I didn't see any indication of another building across from it - at least as close as one was in the Hurley flashback.

From this shot, one is seemingly close, but it is not clear how close.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x13-talahassee/4/normal_talahassee-cap774.jpg (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x13-talahassee/4/normal_talahassee-cap774.jpg)

From this shot, one is seemingly close, but it is not clear how close.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x13-talahassee/4/normal_talahassee-cap774.jpg (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x13-talahassee/4/normal_talahassee-cap774.jpg)
Ah, the perils of only having an SD DVR (darn you, ABC for not letterboxing in SD!). I wasn't home to watch it live, so that building is nearly missing in that angle on my recording. That being said, I don't think it continues in front of the apartment. There's another wider shot that shows an empty space to the right of it.

Here is a theory I thought off. I was thinking last night that John's dad is the same con-man Sawyer went to Australia to kill. They would be about the same age and they both are con-men.

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/1219/lost11809200037tb.th.jpg (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=lost11809200037tb.jpg) http://img57.exs.cx/img57/4548/lost11809200017hu.th.jpg (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=lost11809200017hu.jpg)
Hard to tell, though the clothes look similar to what Locke was wearing last night. Surely not definitive. The buildings are not an exact match, but it could be from a different perspective.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/bharral/fall.jpg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/bharral/fall.jpg)

Thank your for that. I'm going to give the writers the benefit of the doubt.

At the time, the guy falling from the building seemed like just a funny "see, there is Hurley's bad number luck again". However, tying it in with Locke's story just added more support to the fact that all the passengers lives on flight 815 have crossed at some point in the past.

Fun episode. A few things didn't add up for me, but I find myself actually thinking about the episode after it ends and looking forward to the next one again. That wasn't happening earlier this season.

My initial reaction was that I didn't think Locke's motivations to blow up the sub (namely, to keep his legs and hide from his dad) really outweighed the desire that he would have to help his friends get rescued. I just didn't want to believe that he'd screw over his fellow castaways like that. It would've been more in character for him to simply remain on the island even if a rescue party showed up.

But the more I thought about it, the more it is clear that Locke might not give two hoots about the rest of the Losties anymore. He has been on the side "of the island" for a while now, and if he believes that it is important for the island to stay hidden from the outside world, I could buy him blowing up the sub.

As for his Dad being there, it was a good twist (my wife saw it coming, I didn't), but it really isn't that surprising after the fact. We know that the Others recruit people from the outside world and aren't shy about using deceptive practices, so a kidnapping of known conman/murderer/attempted murderer certainly possible. They must've had him in captivity for at least a week, since otherwise they (supposedly) wouldn't have been able to find the island to bring him there. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he's been there since shortly after the crash...if the Others found out that he is also the original Sawyer they could've had all kinds of uses in mind for him.

I'm with turansformer that the last few episodes have rekindled my faith that the writers might actually know where they are going with the series. Maybe I'm being fooled, but at least I've remembered why I liked this show so much to begin with.

And I think Ben's magic box is just a metaphor :)

Wasn't that "Sally Slingshot"? Was that someone else? I gotta watch that bit again !

The voice sounded male to me.

Thank your for that. I'm going to give the writers the benefit of the doubt.

At the time, the guy falling from the building seemed like just a funny "see, there is Hurley's bad number luck again". However, tying it in with Locke's story just added more support to the fact that all the passengers lives on flight 815 have crossed at some point in the past.


Do we know how much time passed from when Hurley won the lottery until he went to Australia? We know that Locke was in a wheelchair for 4 years...I didn't think that Hurley waited that long to go to Australia...

Usually people born in Tallahassee do not have Sawyer's southern style accent, albeit Florida is the south.

Never been to Tallahassee let alone Florida huh? lol.

I'm from South Carolina, and my mother lives in Florida...I see more 'redneck' people in Florida (accent wise) than I do in South Carolina.

It's entirely plausible that Sawyer is in fact from Tallahassee with his southern drawl.

They still have him being a tool...following the bread crumbs that other, smarter people lay out for him....

I'm not so sure that he really was a tool last night. Before Locke blew up the sub, Ben was trying to convince him not to. Granted, he later said that was basically reverse psychology to get him to do it, but do we really expect Ben to admit it if he really didn't want the sub blown up? A master manipulater would only try to turn a loss or a negative into something positive. If he really saw that he was unable to manipulate Locke this time his only recourse would be to claim that that was exactly what he wanted hm to do in the first place and hope that Locke would believe him and continue to think that he was being manipulated.

Never been to Tallahassee let alone Florida huh? lol.

I'm from South Carolina, and my mother lives in Florida...I see more 'redneck' people in Florida (accent wise) than I do in South Carolina.

It's entirely plausible that Sawyer is in fact from Tallahassee with his southern drawl.
It definitely depends on what part. Tampa, Orlando, Miami and the Keys are full of transplants from places much further North - or much further South.

However, the panhandle areas get much more influence from Alabama and Georgia.

The magic box.
Reminds me of the classic "Forbidden Planet" where the extinct civilization of the Krell on Altair 4 had developed a machine that would allow the user to create ANYTHING that they could imagine.
There were unexpected consequences.

This was a GREAT LOST episode

Maybe Locke's Dad was in the tail section of the plane (trying to escape Sawyer's wrath, he was in disguise). He got taken the first night by the others.

Strong feeling that Sawyer and Daddy Locke are tied together. Everyone else is.

Do we know how much time passed from when Hurley won the lottery until he went to Australia? We know that Locke was in a wheelchair for 4 years...I didn't think that Hurley waited that long to go to Australia...


Bingo!
The timelines do not match.

Just remembered from the Claire/bird rescue episode that Sawyer was reading Ayn Rand's Fountainhead. Not familiar with the book but I wonder if that gives anyone who is any insights.

The magic box.
Reminds me of the classic "Forbidden Planet" where the extinct civilization of the Krell on Altair 4 had developed a machine that would allow the user to create ANYTHING that they could imagine.
There were unexpected consequences.

This was a GREAT LOST episode

Damn my slow typing – you beat me to it.. :mad: :D

While I was initially drawn to Lost when it first started, to the largest extent (particularly this year's season) my continued viewing is a mix of only mild curiosity and the lack of anything better on Wednesday nights. So like most others here, I was very pleasantly surprised with last night's ep., as it seemed like SOMETHING interesting was FINALLY going to start happening on this show again.

So Locke is supposed to be able to commune with the island. Who remembers or still has taped the episode where Eko got killed ? (I don't) I seem to remember Locke was pretty prominent in that one, and that Eko was killed by the monster/thingy while Locke was in some sort of proximity, no? Does this mean Locke''s commune of the island permits him to control certain aspects of it as well?

In fact, is Locke the one really communing with the island? There is good reason to actually think its Ben instead. He was born on the island and grew up there. Based upon his statements concerning the "others" attitudes and Locke's destruction of the sub, it looks like he may be priming Locke as the fall guy to blame whenever Ben's control of the island takes an unpopular turn. After all, Ben is a master of misdirection and manipulation.

The magic box - most likely being used in the figurative sense, as opposed to the literate. In retrospect, it occurred to me that there was something familiar about me about this, and I realized that this concept, along with the notion of somone "communing" with the 'island', reminded me of the relationship between the Krellian technology from Forbidden Planet and Morpheus. Remember that too, required enormous amounts of energy to power it, and was controlled by the mind of a single individual.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I get the feeling that Ben is Morpheus, and Locke is probably no more than a conduit in Ben's microsphere. Remember how concerned he was about the 'others' leaving the island? Does that suggest that the magic box 'control' extends no further than its confines?

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

There's one other possibility for Locke's father that I haven't seen mentioned. It's possible, although I'm not sure how likely it is, that the person we saw tied up was a manifestation of the island. So far we've seen Jack's father, Eko's brother, and I think one or two other deceased people, show up on the island and appear perfectly real. We don't know if it's only limited to dead people, but I don't see why it would be. I wouldn't put it past the show to have the person we see as Locke's father being a creation of the smoke monster. Didn't Locke encounter the monster a while back and it looked at him, but didn't harm him? At least I think it was Locke. If the monster is part of the island, and we all know that Locke is basically a crusader for the island, it's not too much of a stretch to think that the island created this person as a "gift" to Locke. As long as Locke thinks it's really his father tied up, he can get some closure with his past. As far as how aware of this Ben and the Others would be, it could go either way.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Damn my slow typing – you beat me to it.. :mad: :D

While I was initially drawn to Lost when it first started, to the largest extent (particularly this year's season) my continued viewing is a mix of only mild curiosity and the lack of anything better on Wednesday nights. So like most others here, I was very pleasantly surprised with last night's ep., as it seemed like SOMETHING interesting was FINALLY going to start happening on this show again.

So Locke is supposed to be able to commune with the island. Who remembers or still has taped the episode where Eko got killed ? (I don't) I seem to remember Locke was pretty prominent in that one, and that Eko was killed by the monster/thingy while Locke was in some sort of proximity, no? Does this mean Locke''s commune of the island permits him to control certain aspects of it as well?

In fact, is Locke the one really communing with the island? There is good reason to actually think its Ben instead. He was born on the island and grew up there. Based upon his statements concerning the "others" attitudes and Locke's destruction of the sub, it looks like he may be priming Locke as the fall guy to blame whenever Ben's control of the island takes an unpopular turn. After all, Ben is a master of misdirection and manipulation.

The magic box - most likely being used in the figurative sense, as opposed to the literate. In retrospect, it occurred to me that there was something familiar about me about this, and I realized that this concept, along with the notion of somone "communing" with the 'island', reminded me of the relationship between the Krellian technology from Forbidden Planet and Morpheus. Remember that too, required enormous amounts of energy to power it, and was controlled by the mind of a single individual. I

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I get the feeling that Ben is Morpheus, and Locke is probably no more than a conduit in Ben's microsphere. Remember how concerned he was about the 'others' leaving the island? Does that suggest that the magic box 'control' extends no further than its confines?

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind


The similarities between "Forbidden Planet" and "Lost" were discussed extensively during the first season. I believe there were some that felt the "monster" was a direct lift from it.

...so that would make "Smokey" the creature from the ID?

...so that would make "Smokey" the creature from the ID?
Well, yes.

Or at least that's what my brain tells me... ;)

Ben acts as if the "anomaly" was a surprise to him. I do not find that plausible. He and his group must have known the consequences of not entering the numbers. He was in the hatch when the timer came very close to zero and we presumed he entered the numbers. Why would Ben's group not make sure some of their people were inputting the numbers? Ben said that he was born on the island and therefore probably knew of the earlier "incident" that was mentioned on the training tapes.

...so that would make "Smokey" the creature from the ID?

Now, whose Id?
Who wanted the pilot and Eko dead?*

And is the Jurassic Park fence a 'defense mechanism' against the Island's defense mechanism, smokey?


* I confess to wanting Anna-Lucia dead and I want the irritating new barbie twin couple dead. Eviceration would be fine.

Now, whose Id?
Who wanted the pilot and Eko dead?*
Locke, perhaps?

The pilot originally had the radio and was about to give them a clue about their probably location. Locke bonked Sayid on the head when he tried to use the radio. Ecko was edging in on Locke's position as "Man of Faith". Anna was all in on Jack's plan to form an "Army" to go up against "The Others".

There's one other possibility for Locke's father that I haven't seen mentioned. It's possible, although I'm not sure how likely it is, that the person we saw tied up was a manifestation of the island. So far we've seen Jack's father, Eko's brother, and I think one or two other deceased people, show up on the island and appear perfectly real. We don't know if it's only limited to dead people, but I don't see why it would be. I wouldn't put it past the show to have the person we see as Locke's father being a creation of the smoke monster. Didn't Locke encounter the monster a while back and it looked at him, but didn't harm him? At least I think it was Locke. If the monster is part of the island, and we all know that Locke is basically a crusader for the island, it's not too much of a stretch to think that the island created this person as a "gift" to Locke. As long as Locke thinks it's really his father tied up, he can get some closure with his past. As far as how aware of this Ben and the Others would be, it could go either way.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

It was the first thing I thought of. Remember, Kate saw the horse and Hurley saw his buddy from the institution. If I recall, didn't Hurley's "illusion" physically interact with him?

The similarities between "Forbidden Planet" and "Lost" were discussed extensively during the first season. I believe there were some that felt the "monster" was a direct lift from it.

Oh well, I'm not surprised. :cool: I don't think I was particapating in this thread beck then, and sure didn't feel like searching the past 700 pages. :rolleyes:

So what's the consensus? Is Locke going to be just a tool, or (heaven help us all),will it come down to a battle of the minds between Ben & Locke?

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Oh well, I'm not surprised. :cool: I don't think I was particapating in this thread beck then, and sure didn't feel like searching the past 700 pages. :rolleyes:

So what's the consensus? Is Locke going to be just a tool, or (heaven help us all),will it come down to a battle of the minds between Ben & Locke?

I'm thinking Ben is irrelevent. It's all about Locke and Desmond - in particular, his girlfriend with the influential father.

Fools!
It's the cat!
The cat is the key.

Fools!
It's the cat!
The cat is the key.
The galaxy is on Orian's belt.....

I'm thinking Ben is irrelevent. It's all about Locke and Desmond - in particular, his girlfriend with the influential father.
Okay, I'll bite. Why Desmond's girlfriend's father (is that 2 or 3 degrees of separation :) ) and not Ben? Why would he want to see Desmond have any sort of ability or power whatsoever? Is that who you think Eye-patch guy was referring to as the 'Great Man', instead of Hanso or someone else?

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Why would he want to see Desmond have any sort of ability or power whatsoever? Is that who you think Eye-patch guy was referring to as the 'Great Man', instead of Hanso or someone else?


It has been confirmed by the writers on the pod cast that the person Eye-Patch guy was referring to (and others have as well) is Jacob. This is also someone that has been referred to (Jacob's list) but we don't know much about - other than Him and 'Great Man' = Jacob.

Have you ever thought that the show's creators are just stringing viewers along just to see how much BS they can feed them before the rationalization for all things ridiculous ceases?

I still watch this show because of HDTV, the production values are high and I've been watching from the beginning so I want to see what happens next.

But attempting to apply logic to the show seems useless. This show is fast heading toward Twin Peaks land. No plausible conclusion is possible.

But attempting to apply logic to the show seems useless. This show is fast heading toward Twin Peaks land. No plausible conclusion is possible.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. It seems to me the explanation for everything will either have to be totally and completely absurd or a complete let down. I still really enjoy the show but I'm a little nervous about the final explanation. I'm holding out hope that the writers will surprise me though.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. It seems to me the explanation for everything will either have to be totally and completely absurd or a complete let down. I still really enjoy the show but I'm a little nervous about the final explanation. I'm holding out hope that the writers will surprise me though.

Unfortunately, I think this may be true. It almost seems that the producers have a very good understanding of the theories that arise after every show, and almost steer the show away from any of those theories to make the show "unpredictable". In the end, you're left with nothing but a mess.

Have you ever thought that the show's creators are just stringing viewers along just to see how much BS they can feed them before the rationalization for all things ridiculous ceases?

But attempting to apply logic to the show seems useless. This show is fast heading toward Twin Peaks land. No plausible conclusion is possible.

Say, did you mean to post this salient observation in the Battlestar Galactica thread instead?

It has been confirmed by the writers on the pod cast that the person Eye-Patch guy was referring to (and others have as well) is Jacob. This is also someone that has been referred to (Jacob's list) but we don't know much about - other than Him and 'Great Man' = Jacob.

Eye-patch guy was Mikhail Bakunin...

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/thumb/4/48/Mikhail_Bakunin.jpg/248px-Mikhail_Bakunin.jpg

We have not seen Jacob yet...

I must say I believe Season 4 should be the last season...I just don't see how they can prolong it another 2 seasons without absolutely infuriating every single viewer...
But not all of us are infuriated. I'm far more interested in the journey than the destinatuion.

While the producers may have a rough, overall plan, they do make a lot of this stuff up as they go along. There are too many variables in TV production to have otherwise and most of the writing staff changes from season to season.

This show drives me crazy. It is so well produced that I'm compelled to watch even while I get the urge to yell at the screen and throw things.

I thought Jack was completely out of character. So - no problem, the reason he was acting like that is just another mystery waiting to be revealed, right?

At some point, would someone please ask Ben how it is he knows all the details of their lives? If he refuses to answer, would someone please hit him a couple times? Mikhail knew about them too but no one thought to ask him either.

Why does having the communications out prevent the submarine from coming back to the island? Can't they navigate on their own? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's another mystery.

Why was Kate left just handcuffed sitting on a pool table, but Sawyer-Dad had to be bound and gagged behind the locked door of the magic box?

There's more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Okay, I'll bite. Why Desmond's girlfriend's father (is that 2 or 3 degrees of separation :) ) and not Ben? Why would he want to see Desmond have any sort of ability or power whatsoever? Is that who you think Eye-patch guy was referring to as the 'Great Man', instead of Hanso or someone else?
Because the father of Desmond's girlfriend runs one of the connected corporations. He's not 2 to 3 degrees separated - he's right in the bullseye. Add to that he owns the boat Desmond sailed on, and it strikes me as being very important. Besides, if you remember the the Season 2 cliff hanger, it's the connection to Desmond that may eventually get them off the island. Daddy's little girl isn't ready to give up on the boy from the wrong side of town just yet.

Eye-patch guy was Mikhail Bakunin...

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/thumb/4/48/Mikhail_Bakunin.jpg/248px-Mikhail_Bakunin.jpg

We have not seen Jacob yet...
Nobody claimed we had. He only referred to Jacob.

This show drives me crazy. It is so well produced that I'm compelled to watch even while I get the urge to yell at the screen and throw things.

I thought Jack was completely out of character. So - no problem, the reason he was acting like that is just another mystery waiting to be revealed, right?

Kate is with Sawyer (or appears to be) therefore there is no reason left for him to stay on the island

At some point, would someone please ask Ben how it is he knows all the details of their lives? If he refuses to answer, would someone please hit him a couple times? Mikhail knew about them too but no one thought to ask him either.

They did ask...they can't simply have the characters give away every mystery in the show ;)

Why does having the communications out prevent the submarine from coming back to the island? Can't they navigate on their own? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's another mystery.

As Ben said, "Not even god can see this island"

Why was Kate left just handcuffed sitting on a pool table, but Sawyer-Dad had to be bound and gagged behind the locked door of the magic box?

Well they didn't want him screaming and giving away the surprise ending did they? :)

Nobody claimed we had. He only referred to Jacob.
oh, I missed that one key word when I read over his reply...."referring to" :)

The only way this whole show will end "absurdly" or in a "big let-down" is because everyone here is spending so much time and effort analyzing, dissecting and discussing the show. When you get to that point, there's no possible way the show could really end in a completely satisfying way. For those that are just watching the show and not online discussing every tiny detail, they'll probably like the conclusion. But for us, we're hopelessly doomed to be disappointed.

In other things... I too second the question of why Locke was soaking wet after coming out of the submarine... unless he decided after going inside the sub that the C4 had to be planted outside the sub, or underneath the water... Or maybe it was just really humid inside the sub and he was just sweating.

Also, when Locke and Alex were inside the closet hiding, the other guy came in and I did also hear the word "Dad" used... So what was that all about?

And we were talking last night after the episode about, if Locke wants to stay on the island so bad, why is he sabotaging every chance of escape for everyone else too? As someone else mentioned, he could just stay even if a rescue party showed up, but he doesn't want anyone else to be able to leave. The island itself doesn't necessarily want to keep people from leaving (Walt/Michael), but Locke sure seems like it.

What was the song Jack was playing on the piano? Kate seemed to either recognize it when she was standing in his room behind him, or she was just so confused that Jack looked very "at home" there, and not plotting his escape.

Since Juliette was a fertility specialist back "home", is that why she was brought there, and is that why they kidnapped the kids? Maybe there's something to do with that on the island... Claire and Sun seemed to become pregnant when they weren't expecting too, dont know if they never thought they could become pregnant at all or if they just weren't expecting it, but maybe they were brought there because they were going to give birth on the island, and Juliette is somehow involved in studies with the kids, maybe the kids were the offspring of other "infertile" women who suddenly because pregnant whereever they lived in the "real world."

Why do the others use a submarine to get to and from the "real world"? Unless they need to sneak in and out from wherever they go. Remember, they were there and using a submarine long before the plane crash, and we obviously know now a regular boat will do just fine, since they sent Walt and Michael off home in one. So why the sub? Why do they need this stealth vehicle to leave the island and reenter the real world?

I definitely think the man falling in Hurley's backstory was Locke. We can argue semantics of whether the building across was there or not, or too close, but the facts remain and its too much to be coincidence... Otherwise, they would have a scene of a completely random person falling from a building behind one of the main characters... there's no reason for that whatsoever unless it meant something important, and this obviously is the reason. Otherwise, they wouldn't have made locke's injury be being pushed out an 8th-floor window.

The fate of Michael and Walt (unknown) is the type of circumstance that should serve as a red flag to Lost sleuths.

Remember that Lost spent multiple episodes on the Michael / Walt backstory. Walt could see the future and bad things happened when he was around. The "Others" kidnapped him and studied him for an entire season. Now both charaters have left the island and that entire story arc is moot.

Harold Perrineau (Michael) recently signed on to a pilot on another network.

What was the point in the Michael / Walt story arc?!

There was no point.

But I'll watch again next week. :D

Also has anyone realized that all the characters introduced from the tail section (Libby, Ana Lucia, Ecko, the dude with the wife) of the plane have died or been written out of the show?

This show drives me crazy. It is so well produced that I'm compelled to watch even while I get the urge to yell at the screen and throw things.

I thought Jack was completely out of character. So - no problem, the reason he was acting like that is just another mystery waiting to be revealed, right?

At some point, would someone please ask Ben how it is he knows all the details of their lives? If he refuses to answer, would someone please hit him a couple times? Mikhail knew about them too but no one thought to ask him either.

Why does having the communications out prevent the submarine from coming back to the island? Can't they navigate on their own? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's another mystery.

Why was Kate left just handcuffed sitting on a pool table, but Sawyer-Dad had to be bound and gagged behind the locked door of the magic box?

There's more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Well, i might be able to answer a couple of those:

- Jack was acting the way he was because he's playing nice in order to get home. He was also being monitored constantly and needed to play a role.

- As far as the sub, that can be answered with this: http://www.janeresture.com/necker/index.htm

Like Necker Island, there is only one save way to approach it. In a sense, you have to "know where the rocks are". The island is obviously somewhat undetectable under normal circumstances. Michael had to follow a specific headin to get out. It may not be possible to find that spot from the outside without a beacon to guide you.

- Ben knows the details because he has a list. From what we learned last episode, he got it from someone higher up.

- Kayt was in the pool room because was being monitored and wasn't going anywhere soon. Lockes father was a gift-wrapped present.

Did anyone notice, or can they get, a screen capture of ben's bedroom and the map that was on the wall?

DId anyone else think of National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation when they revealed Locke's dad in the box? I was thinking, Locke's dad was Chevy Chase's boss at the end of the movie, and Ben is Cousin Eddie... I was hoping for a big red bow around him, and then all the police crashing through windows unnecessarily. :)

And we were talking last night after the episode about, if Locke wants to stay on the island so bad, why is he sabotaging every chance of escape for everyone else too? As someone else mentioned, he could just stay even if a rescue party showed up, but he doesn't want anyone else to be able to leave. The island itself doesn't necessarily want to keep people from leaving (Walt/Michael), but Locke sure seems like it.
If they get rescued, the island gets discovered. Once that happens, you have the military and research teams from all over coming to check out this island. Locke would have to go majorly covert to be allowed to stay under those circumstances.

Even if the government and institutional types don't take over, Locke would find himself up to his elbows in tourists.

Locke told Ben he was "cheating" and didn't deserve the island. I doubt he would feel any different if a giant research team came swooping in.

For that matter, if his secret got out, he's end up being studied somewhere.

I definitely think the man falling in Hurley's backstory was Locke. We can argue semantics of whether the building across was there or not, or too close, but the facts remain and its too much to be coincidence... Otherwise, they would have a scene of a completely random person falling from a building behind one of the main characters... there's no reason for that whatsoever unless it meant something important, and this obviously is the reason. Otherwise, they wouldn't have made locke's injury be being pushed out an 8th-floor window.

The problem with it is not the buildings so much, but (as others have already pointed out) the timeline. Locke very clearly had his accident four years ago. From Hurley's flashbacks, we are led to believe that he did not wait four years between all the bad things happening after the lottery (most of which happened before that meeting) and going to Australia to try to discover more about them. It seems more like months. The point of having someone fall through the window there seems more likely to further ilustrate that bad things and death follow Hurley.

Link to the description of this stuff:
http://lost.cubit.net/viewEgg.php?id=247

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/gallery/1_22_03_07_12_34_26.jpg

Ok, I'll give you that, but we don't really know how long Hurley was actually in Australia before, we assume, giving up and going home to LA. Maybe he was there for a couple years.

The problem with it is not the buildings so much, but (as others have already pointed out) the timeline. Locke very clearly had his accident four years ago. From Hurley's flashbacks, we are led to believe that he did not wait four years between all the bad things happening after the lottery (most of which happened before that meeting) and going to Australia to try to discover more about them. It seems more like months. The point of having someone fall through the window there seems more likely to further ilustrate that bad things and death follow Hurley.

The problem with it is not the buildings so much, but (as others have already pointed out) the timeline. Locke very clearly had his accident four years ago. From Hurley's flashbacks, we are led to believe that he did not wait four years between all the bad things happening after the lottery (most of which happened before that meeting) and going to Australia to try to discover more about them. It seems more like months. The point of having someone fall through the window there seems more likely to further ilustrate that bad things and death follow Hurley.
I fully agree with this. Besides, the scene with Hurley appeared to be in a more densly urban setting. In addition, isn't Hurley from LA? Why would contract an investment firm in Florida if he was going to deal with them face to face?

As Ben said, "Not even god can see this island"
Ah, I missed that line. Makes sense, in a Lost kind of way.

But they've been going back and forth between the island and the real world for a long time, nad the island's still hidden. Even if they let Jack off the island, I'm sure either the "companY' would be there to get him when he reaches home, or he would really not have any idea where he came from, where the island was, and so people from the "outside world" being able to find it would still be impossible.

If they get rescued, the island gets discovered. Once that happens, you have the military and research teams from all over coming to check out this island. Locke would have to go majorly covert to be allowed to stay under those circumstances.

Even if the government and institutional types don't take over, Locke would find himself up to his elbows in tourists.

Locke told Ben he was "cheating" and didn't deserve the island. I doubt he would feel any different if a giant research team came swooping in.

For that matter, if his secret got out, he's end up being studied somewhere.

Ah, I missed that line. Makes sense, in a Lost kind of way.
I believe it was back in the "everybody loves being captured" episodes. You may have been too underwhelmed by the episodes to catch it.

Taken from Sledgeweb's "Lost Stuff"
http://lost.cubit.net/forum/gallery/1_22_03_07_12_04_56.jpg

QUOTE:
Description: In 3x13, "The Man from Tallahassee", the MYSTERY CAR OF DEATH RETURNS! Maybe. When Locke goes to see his father at the Tustin Florist Ranch, a car drives by in the background that looks very similar to the Bonneville Car of Death. Some of you may remember the MCOD from Season 1. It hit Michael and put him in the hospital, it hit Locke as he was chasing his mother through the parking lot of the toy store he worked at, and Kate ran into it when she was fleeing the hospital in Tom's car. Now it's back again! It's pretty clear now that Peter was killed by the MCOD.
END QUOTE

But they've been going back and forth between the island and the real world for a long time, nad the island's still hidden. Even if they let Jack off the island, I'm sure either the "companY' would be there to get him when he reaches home, or he would really not have any idea where he came from, where the island was, and so people from the "outside world" being able to find it would still be impossible.
That's the thing. Unlike Michael, Jack would do what was necessary to bring back help. Locke knows that Jack cares deeply for Kate and would want to protect her.

Jack also has the juice to get things rolling. He was a prominant surgeon in the real world, as was his Dad until near the end.

Ben acts as if the "anomaly" was a surprise to him. I do not find that plausible. He and his group must have known the consequences of not entering the numbers. He was in the hatch when the timer came very close to zero and we presumed he entered the numbers. Why would Ben's group not make sure some of their people were inputting the numbers? Ben said that he was born on the island and therefore probably knew of the earlier "incident" that was mentioned on the training tapes.

I think since Ben found out that he had the tumor, he's been searching for why the island hasn't healed him. Maybe that's why he fed Locke's emerging lack of faith about not pushing the button. Maybe he thought the Swan containment needed to be stopped in order to allow the healing to happen. Failing that, he always had Doctor Jack as his backup plan. Ben is a manipulator who gets others to do what he wants.
I think Locke hit the nail right on the head when he said to Ben the island healed him and yet did not heal Ben even though he lived there all his life.

Why do the others use a submarine to get to and from the "real world"? Unless they need to sneak in and out from wherever they go. Remember, they were there and using a submarine long before the plane crash, and we obviously know now a regular boat will do just fine, since they sent Walt and Michael off home in one. So why the sub? Why do they need this stealth vehicle to leave the island and reenter the real world?
We don't really know if Walt and Michael did manage to escape or not.

We don't really know if Walt and Michael did manage to escape or not.
Which is an excellent point. We saw him leave - we didn't see where he went.

The similarities between "Forbidden Planet" and "Lost" were discussed extensively during the first season. I believe there were some that felt the "monster" was a direct lift from it.


Hey, I brought it up by page 3 of this thread, in the first couple weeks of S1. But I got the name wrong.

See: way back here in my very 1st Lost post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4417599&&#post4417599).

After that I called the show "Canterbury Tales on the Forbidden Planet" for awhile.

- Tom

In one of the recent episodes they mentioned that the anomaly had knocked out the underwater navigation beacon that they used to find the island when in the submarine. That's why Ben said it was going to be a one-way trip. There was no way for them to get back. Even though he knew there was never going to be a trip anywhere in that sub again. Just my $.02.

Have you ever thought that the show's creators are just stringing viewers along just to see how much BS they can feed them before the rationalization for all things ridiculous ceases?

I still watch this show because of HDTV, the production values are high and I've been watching from the beginning so I want to see what happens next.

But attempting to apply logic to the show seems useless. This show is fast heading toward Twin Peaks land. No plausible conclusion is possible.

Hasn't it really been that way since the plane crash in episode one? It's all about enjoying the ride. Once any story/book/movie/series has provided tremendous amounts of intrigue and enjoyment, it's almost impossible to have a conclusion that lives up to expectations. And none of this really made any sense anyway, because the events in the lives of the characters intertwined without reason well before they got on the plane.

If I'm going to spend 5 years watching a show, it had better provide great entertainment along the way, regardless of the payoff in the final hours.

...In addition, isn't Hurley from LA? Why would contract an investment firm in Florida if he was going to deal with them face to face?
Yeah that pretty much nails it. That wasn't Locke flying by Hurley's window.

Hasn't it really been that way since the plane crash in episode one? It's all about enjoying the ride. Once any story/book/movie/series has provided tremendous amounts of intrigue and enjoyment, it's almost impossible to have a conclusion that lives up to expectations. And none of this really made any sense anyway, because the events in the lives of the characters intertwined without reason well before they got on the plane.

If I'm going to spend 5 years watching a show, it had better provide great entertainment along the way, regardless of the payoff in the final hours.

Amen

My goofy theory for the week:

When they captured Kate and Syed, the big ugly guy (who was playing football with Jack) came to Ben and said "X and Y" (I can't remember the exact names used) came back and were captured. The names used were not Kate and Syed - although they clearly know their names. So, unless there was an amazing coincidental capture, why use other names for Kate and Syed?

I think it's because:
Dharma = Karma => reincarnation

I think it's not just a time-space rift type of deal but reincarnation as well.
The Losties are reincarnated former Others who were essentially sent back to the Island. Although they don't know it, they are following an expected pattern. Also, I'm using reincarnation in some unknown to me way. It might be that "reincarnation" zaps them back to the real world without remembering the island.

Other supporting ideas behind this:

- The Others who get killed seem kind of happy about it. Mikhail thanked Locke, the African American lady who Mikhail killed seemed to be indicating this was a perfect excuse to kill her. So, when someone gets killed it allows them to get off the island and maybe allows them to live another life without being "sent" back to the island. Although in some cases they do get sent to the island - like the Losties. But, people can't kill others or themselves for no reason since that would screw up their karma and they would return as anteaters or something.

- The Others took the children since they are fresh reincarnations. Or, are just fresh and not reincarnations and therefore can be kept pure.



Mitch

My goofy theory for the week:

When they captured Kate and Syed, the big ugly guy (who was playing football with Jack) came to Ben and said "X and Y" (I can't remember the exact names used) came back and were captured. The names used were not Kate and Syed - although they clearly know their names. So, unless there was an amazing coincidental capture, why use other names for Kate and Syed?

I think it's because:
Dharma = Karma => reincarnation

I think it's not just a time-space rift type of deal but reincarnation as well.
The Losties are reincarnated former Others who were essentially sent back to the Island. Although they don't know it, they are following an expected pattern. Also, I'm using reincarnation in some unknown to me way. It might be that "reincarnation" zaps them back to the real world without remembering the island.

Other supporting ideas behind this:

- The Others who get killed seem kind of happy about it. Mikhail thanked Locke, the African American lady who Mikhail killed seemed to be indicating this was a perfect excuse to kill her. So, when someone gets killed it allows them to get off the island and maybe allows them to live another life without being "sent" back to the island. Although in some cases they do get sent to the island - like the Losties. But, people can't kill others or themselves for no reason since that would screw up their karma and they would return as anteaters or something.

- The Others took the children since they are fresh reincarnations. Or, are just fresh and not reincarnations and therefore can be kept pure.



Mitch


Interesting theory....but the names he used were Austen and Jarrah...Their last names.

Haven't the producers said several times that the passengers are not dead?

Interesting theory....but the names he used were Austen and Jarrah...Their last names.
You beat me to it....

Haven't the producers said several times that the passengers are not dead?
Yes. I think I was also the one who first posted that apparently incorrect theory (with a sly quote from a movie who's director only works in Pennsylvania). I'm actually glad to be wrong. It's seems too easy that way.

Haven't the producers said several times that the passengers are not dead?

Yes they are not dead according to the producers (yet you still find people who think they are brilliant because they waited until now to come up with a theory, and that original theory is that everyone is dead in some kind of purgatory :) ), but a reincarnation theory is different from them saying they are dead.

The producers have said there is a logical explanation to everything. Sure is becoming tougher and tougher to come up with a theory though.

What gets me about last night's ep is that Ben promised Jack he could leave, and they have a submarine (or had one).

But Michael/Walt were let off the island (supposedly) with a small boat following certain coordinates.

So why can't Ben do that for Jack? After all, he is a man of his word.

Key word is supposedly.

But Michael/Walt were let off the island (supposedly) with a small boat following certain coordinates.

So why can't Ben do that for Jack? After all, he is a man of his word.

Didn't Michael and Walt take the only boat that was capable of traveling that distance? That was why the sub was so important: with the communication system down and the sub destroyed (maybe, more on that in a sec), there's no way to get to or contact the outside world. Even if whoever is monitoring communication in the real world realizes they've lost contact, they might not be able to send help since the beacon is down.

About the sub: It occurred to me that Locke just staged the destruction of the sub and really stashed it somewhere else. Everyone would figure that out pretty quick, though, if there was no submarine debris anywhere from the explosion, right? Also, where the heck would he hide a submarine?

Was it possible to see the sub in the background of the shot with the explosion?

Why was Kate left just handcuffed sitting on a pool table,

Well, I can think of reasons but perhaps this is not the appropriate forum.

I fully agree with this. Besides, the scene with Hurley appeared to be in a more densly urban setting. In addition, isn't Hurley from LA? Why would contract an investment firm in Florida if he was going to deal with them face to face?

Locke has always been in California (never stepped foot in Florida as far as I know). I think the title refers to his dad as "the man from Talahassee". That is where he originally from and messed with Sawyer's family

So, thanks to the pictures posted here of Ben's bedroom wall, we see that he has a stylized astronomical map of the constellations on his wall.

About the sub: It occurred to me that Locke just staged the destruction of the sub and really stashed it somewhere else. Everyone would figure that out pretty quick, though, if there was no submarine debris anywhere from the explosion, right? Also, where the heck would he hide a submarine?

Was it possible to see the sub in the background of the shot with the explosion?Perhaps you're on to something here. If Locke moved the sub somewhere or just dove it underwater to hide it, that may explain why he was dripping wet when he came walking back up the dock.

Maybe Alex's words sank in ("he's just manipulating you") and he changed his mind at the last minute.

I like the theory of Locke stashing the sub. That would explain why he was all wet. He would have had to swim back to shore. Also, he seemed way to eager to credit Ben with pulling all the strings. It seemed like he wanted to see what would really happen if the sub were gone. He said that Ben was cheating and maybe this was a test to see if he could be trusted.

On another note, there was a large boat in the background in the episode where Ben was transported from one island to the other. It seems the others have more transport options.

Didn't Michael and Walt take the only boat that was capable of traveling that distance? That was why the sub was so important: with the communication system down and the sub destroyed (maybe, more on that in a sec), there's no way to get to or contact the outside world. Even if whoever is monitoring communication in the real world realizes they've lost contact, they might not be able to send help since the beacon is down.


On another note, there was a large boat in the background in the episode where Ben was transported from one island to the other. It seems the others have more transport options.


Yes, they for sure have that boat...and they also have Desmond's sail boat (if they aren't one in the same).

Yes they are not dead according to the producers (yet you still find people who think they are brilliant because they waited until now to come up with a theory, and that original theory is that everyone is dead in some kind of purgatory :) ), but a reincarnation theory is different from them saying they are dead.

The producers have said there is a logical explanation to everything. Sure is becoming tougher and tougher to come up with a theory though.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I'm starting to think that the explanation is some sort of Matrix-like situation. The "magic box" is a big computer that creates a simulation of reality for everyone on the "island". They are all really in cocoons recovering from serious injuries sustained in the crash (or other ways). Some perhaps volunteered. So anything supernatural-seeming is just computer-generated. Locke only *thinks* he can walk. People who "die" probably get let out of the cocoons to go back to a regular life.

Since the "Island" doesn't really exist, no one can find it.

-Chris

I have a problem with this issue of the beacon allowing a 1 way trip. If the beacon were down wouldn't that also prevent anyone from leaving? You can not find your way back, and in theory you don't know where you are going. It would be foolish to pilot out to sea and hope someone finds you before you starve, dehydrate, or go down in a storm. If there is only a certain way to navigate in there should be a certain way to navigate out, no?

For me the perfect ending would be if this is all taking place in the mind of an autistic child looking at a snow globe. Oh wait...

I'm still in the occam's razor camp: the theory with the least amount of assumptions is probably the correct one:

It is an actual island
There is something unusual about it--magnetic or otherwise
A research organization or big business wants to find a way to exploit it for contol or profit
People really do live and die
Since the research has been going on for some time, it is POSSIBLE that there is some advanced technology available to make what appears to be a "supernatural" occurrence explainable.

No dead people, no clones, no shift in the time/space continuum, no parallel universe, no purgatory.

The only way this whole show will end "absurdly" or in a "big let-down" is because everyone here is spending so much time and effort analyzing, dissecting and discussing the show. When you get to that point, there's no possible way the show could really end in a completely satisfying way. For those that are just watching the show and not online discussing every tiny detail, they'll probably like the conclusion. But for us, we're hopelessly doomed to be disappointed.

Kinda like how SDE or SSE never bothered you until you learned about it while obsessively reading this forum. Why do we do this to ourselves?! :confused: :D

Ok, I'll give you that, but we don't really know how long Hurley was actually in Australia before, we assume, giving up and going home to LA. Maybe he was there for a couple years.

I was always under the impression that the guy that jumped off the roof in hurley's flash back was facing down (meaning he jumped). Locke hit his back since he was pushed.

Kinda like how SDE or SSE never bothered you until you learned about it while obsessively reading this forum. Why do we do this to ourselves?! :confused: :D

...ah, but then I wouldn't know that by angling my Sony KDF50E2000 slightly, I can virtually eliminate SSE (discovered while viewing the screen off-axis and finding that SSE was barely visible).

No dead people, no clones, no shift in the time/space continuum, no parallel universe, no purgatory.
What about the alien on the monitor???

Oh wait that was just Mikhail with his eye patch. :)

I think it all has to do with Wilson, the volleyball. Oops, wrong island.

I was always under the impression that the guy that jumped off the roof in hurley's flash back was facing down (meaning he jumped). Locke hit his back since he was pushed.

Also:

1. We know that Locke was already in a wheelchair when he worked in Hurley's box factory.

2. Hurley was meeting with his accountant when his accountant told him that the box factory burned down.

3. Moments later, Hurley sees the body falling outside his window.

Thus, that body could not have been Locke, since he was already paralyzed by this time.

The producers have said there is a logical explanation to everything. Sure is becoming tougher and tougher to come up with a theory though.

Barring a deus ex machina (http://www.answers.com/topic/deus-ex-machina), there is no logical explanation that exists in our world.

Kinda like how SDE or SSE never bothered you until you learned about it while obsessively reading this forum. Why do we do this to ourselves?! :confused: :D
OCD

Interesting theory....but the names he used were Austen and Jarrah...Their last names.

Doh! OK, new theory: The writers are just screwing with our heads. It's going to turn out to just be a reality game show that nobody but the Others knew about. :)



Mitch

I like the theory of Locke stashing the sub. That would explain why he was all wet. He would have had to swim back to shore. Also, he seemed way to eager to credit Ben with pulling all the strings. It seemed like he wanted to see what would really happen if the sub were gone. He said that Ben was cheating and maybe this was a test to see if he could be trusted.

On another note, there was a large boat in the background in the episode where Ben was transported from one island to the other. It seems the others have more transport options.
Have they discovered the helicopter and subway station yet? :D

There's one other possibility for Locke's father that I haven't seen mentioned. It's possible, although I'm not sure how likely it is, that the person we saw tied up was a manifestation of the island. So far we've seen Jack's father, Eko's brother, and I think one or two other deceased people, show up on the island and appear perfectly real. We don't know if it's only limited to dead people, but I don't see why it would be. I wouldn't put it past the show to have the person we see as Locke's father being a creation of the smoke monster. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

A plausible theory indeed. In fact, we know the island has some hallucienagetic properties to it inherently....when Locke rubbed that gunk made from plants & such on Boones head, Boone then imagined Shannon had been killed. Smokie may be the physical mainfestation of those properties. And if Locke is "connected" to the island in a sybiotic manner, it may explain why he doesnt fear it.

On another note, there was a large boat in the background in the episode where Ben was transported from one island to the other. It seems the others have more transport options.
Yes, they took the little boat out to the bigger one, which took them to the other island. And, as also noted, they have Desmond's sailboat.

I also suppose they could send up a signal flare to the airdrop plane.

Have they discovered the helicopter and subway station yet? :D
It's a Disney show. They have a monorail. Just like in Shelbyville.


"Monorail! Monorail! Monorail!"

I have a problem with this issue of the beacon allowing a 1 way trip. If the beacon were down wouldn't that also prevent anyone from leaving? You can not find your way back, and in theory you don't know where you are going. It would be foolish to pilot out to sea and hope someone finds you before you starve, dehydrate, or go down in a storm. If there is only a certain way to navigate in there should be a certain way to navigate out, no?

They gave Michael and Walt a heading to follow to get away from the island and told him that was the only way to get out.

Therefore, it is easy to get away, just follow that heading. I would assume that once you are outside the "reach" of the island, navigation can be done normally using GPS, etc.

However, finding the island using traditional methods (GPS, mapping, etc) is not possible due to the island not being on any map, no real coordinates to use with GPS, etc.

Just a thought....

They gave Michael and Walt a heading to follow to get away from the island and told him that was the only way to get out.

Therefore, it is easy to get away, just follow that heading. I would assume that once you are outside the "reach" of the island, navigation can be done normally using GPS, etc.

However, finding the island using traditional methods (GPS, mapping, etc) is not possible due to the island not being on any map, no real coordinates to use with GPS, etc.

Just a thought....
That was what I was thinking.

It is very possible that Locke submergeed the submarine and blew up the boat that looked to be docked in front of it. That would explain why he was all wet and why we never saw an actual shoit of the sub after Locke went down through the hatch.

If he refuses to answer, would someone please hit him a couple times?



Torture has been completely ineffective with Ben, and Sayid had plenty of time with him.




Why does having the communications out prevent the submarine from coming back to the island? Can't they navigate on their own? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's another mystery.


The sonar system is down as well after the 'sky went purple', they used the sonar ping to find the island (per mikhail).

A plausible theory indeed. In fact, we know the island has some hallucienagetic properties to it inherently....when Locke rubbed that gunk made from plants & such on Boones head, Boone then imagined Shannon had been killed. Smokie may be the physical mainfestation of those properties. And if Locke is "connected" to the island in a sybiotic manner, it may explain why he doesnt fear it.

Maybe Locke has always been one of Smokey's manifestations. A baby Smokey that's a loose cannon and needs to be gradually brought under control. ;)

It is very possible that Locke submergeed the submarine and blew up the boat that looked to be docked in front of it. That would explain why he was all wet and why we never saw an actual shoit of the sub after Locke went down through the hatch.

Wouldn't people become suspicious if all they saw in the water were fiberglass and wood from what would look like a boat, instead of anything related to a sub.. Locke would have had to clean up the boat's debris if he were to convince people that the submarine blew up, and its debris might have sunken away to the bottom of the sea? Things don't add up.

How about he slipped on the peer and into the water to get all wet before he pulled himself up onto the peer? :)

Since Juliette was a fertility specialist back "home", is that why she was brought there, and is that why they kidnapped the kids? Maybe there's something to do with that on the island... Claire and Sun seemed to become pregnant when they weren't expecting too, dont know if they never thought they could become pregnant at all or if they just weren't expecting it, but maybe they were brought there because they were going to give birth on the island, and Juliette is somehow involved in studies with the kids, maybe the kids were the offspring of other "infertile" women who suddenly because pregnant whereever they lived in the "real world."




Claire was pregnant long before she got on the plane. It is likely that Sun was pregnant with Korean Kojak's baby before the flight too.

I just hope that magic box of Ben's doesn't spit Sanjaya out from American Idol.

I also suppose they could send up a signal flare to the airdrop plane.

So if God can't find the island, how are the planes getting over it and dropping their pallets? Or will that stop now that they have lost communication?

Never been to Tallahassee let alone Florida huh? lol.

I'm from South Carolina, and my mother lives in Florida...I see more 'redneck' people in Florida (accent wise) than I do in South Carolina.

It's entirely plausible that Sawyer is in fact from Tallahassee with his southern drawl.


I live in south Alabama so I'm familiar with Florida. The gulf coast and and even
the north central area of Florida (not the Atlantic coast) have a a very southern flavor, but go to Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, etc. and you will think you are somewhere in the North.

So if God can't find the island, how are the planes getting over it and dropping their pallets? Or will that stop now that they have lost communication?

Perhaps it was Lucifer that was dropping the rations from his winged beasts.

Wouldn't people become suspicious if all they saw in the water were fiberglass and wood from what would look like a boat, instead of anything related to a sub.. Locke would have had to clean up the boat's debris if he were to convince people that the submarine blew up, and its debris might have sunken away to the bottom of the sea? Things don't add up.

How about he slipped on the peer and into the water to get all wet before he pulled himself up onto the peer? :)
I agree; the sub is toast.

So if God can't find the island, how are the planes getting over it and dropping their pallets? Or will that stop now that they have lost communication?
I guess we'll find out when they run out of Dharma Flakes.

I live in south Alabama so I'm familiar with Florida. The gulf coast and and even
the north central area of Florida (not the Atlantic coast) have a a very southern flavor, but go to Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, etc. and you will think you are somewhere in the North.

Palm Beach county is dominated by Northern folks, while Broward (Ft. Lauderdale) and Miami-Dade (Miami, Homestead, The Keys etc.) will make you wonder if you were in the USofA or if you were in the Caribbean or Latin America.

Wouldn't people become suspicious if all they saw in the water were fiberglass and wood from what would look like a boat, instead of anything related to a sub.. Locke would have had to clean up the boat's debris if he were to convince people that the submarine blew up, and its debris might have sunken away to the bottom of the sea? Things don't add up.

How about he slipped on the peer and into the water to get all wet before he pulled himself up onto the peer? :)
On the other hand, maybe he blew up nothing at all. From the point of view of everyone else, there was a sub there. They see an explosion and the sub has disappeared. The logical conclusion is the sub was blown up and sunk. Sometimes perception is reality.

On the other hand, maybe he blew up nothing at all. From the point of view of everyone else, there was a sub there. They see an explosion and the sub has disappeared. The logical conclusion is the sub was blown up and sunk. Sometimes perception is reality.

Possible. Locke could have stowed the sub somewhere else, swam back, and set the explosives on some floatsam, and made it go kablamo.

Ladies and Gents, give it up for "John 'Kablamo' Locke" !!

:D

I gotta admit...there are some great one liners in the past few pages...hahahah

I haven't had this many pages of posts to read on Thursday night, in a very long time. And some interesting insights and theories as well.

I gotta admit...there are some great one liners in the past few pages...hahahah

Locke: How do you get electricity?
Ben: We have two giant hamsters running in a massive wheel in our secret underground lab..
Locke: Yeah, that's funny !! :D :D
...

Ben: If you blow up my submarine, John, that would be a big problem for me with my people..
Locke: Is that supposed to be an incentive for me to not blow it up?

:D


Ben: What if I told you, on this very island, there is a big box, and whatever you could imagine, whatever you wanted to be in it, when you open that box, there it would be !! What do you say about that, John?
Locke: Well, I'd say hope that box is big enough to imagine yourself up a submarine !!

*Oh snap !!*:D :D

And, gotta mention that one of them FINALLY asked a question that any of us would have asked: "So ya got anything to eat?"

Here's a thought: when Walt/Michael left, did they end up getting picked up by the sub?

If not, why is the sub the only way off the island? Couldn't the Hostiles use one of the other boats they still have to leave?

When Walt/Michael left, Ben gave them the heading to go towards, but didn't he also say they would find help on that heading? That seems to imply he had already setup something for them to run into.

No, wait, that wouldn't work because with the sonar system down there would be no way for the sub to get back after taking Michael/Walt away. The only answer then would be that they really didn't escape.

Does anyone think the main reason Ben got himself captured in the 2nd season was to get near Locke to try and figure out how he got healed?

This might make a little sense as to why he put himself into such danger rather than letting a flunky investigate the Swan and losties. Ben was probably trying to keep his tumor real hush hush - doesn't want it to get out that he's fallible or that the "island hates him", so he had to go do this himself.

No, wait, that wouldn't work because with the sonar system down there would be no way for the sub to get back after taking Michael/Walt away. The only answer then would be that they really didn't escape.
Or they have more than one sub and the one that Walt and Michael escaped on won't be coming back.

Or they have more than one sub and the one that Walt and Michael escaped on won't be coming back.

Or, Ben gave Michael the only sea-faring long-haul boat they had, and that boat is obviously not coming back. The only means left to go out and return to the island appears to be the submarine.

But we know they have Desmond's sailboat, which is fully capable of long trips. Also, the boat they used to come back from the Hydra station a few eps back looked larger to me than the one they gave Michael to use.

Someone refresh my memory...why is Rousseau on the island again? Have they hinted at that? She isn't an Other or a Lostie. I'm remmebering a third group....scientists I believe...they all got sick and she killed them?? How'd they get to the island? What were they sick from? I Remember desmond shooting himself up with some sort of vaccination. Has any of this been answered?

While on their ship, she and her group intercepted the "numbers" that were being broadcast. They found the island and investigated. Her story is that the other crew members became "infected" and she had to kill them. The "Others" stole her baby, Alex.

What, you don't like magic boxes????Just another gimmick to add another season......
Puhlease. Magic box anyone?

Ben: I can't blow up the submarine or "my people" will get on my ass. So I just rig a station full of C4 guarded by a one-eyed maniac, let you to steal it, sit back and wait for you to come back and blow up the sub for me. I'm a fricking evil genius!

Oh yeah, I have your daddy in the magic box. Wanna see?
And I think Ben's magic box is just a metaphor :)
The magic box - most likely being used in the figurative sense, as opposed to the literate.

You people never read The Third Policeman, referenced early in Season 2, did you?

Perhaps now is the time to do so...

(Hint: The "magic box" is real.)

~Dan

Someone refresh my memory...why is Rousseau on the island again? Have they hinted at that? She isn't an Other or a Lostie. I'm remmebering a third group....scientists I believe...they all got sick and she killed them?? How'd they get to the island? What were they sick from? I Remember desmond shooting himself up with some sort of vaccination. Has any of this been answered?

Rousseau was part of a team of scientists that were on a boat that went to investigate the broadcast of the numbers when their boat went aground. They stayed on the island for a few weeks until the sickness got to the crew, and she had to kill them all. Although it is theorized that she has been on the island for 16 years (and Alex is about 16 years old), they really deduced that by back calculating the iterations of her message that she set up at the radio tower.

She is definitely a survivalist, and seems to know her way around the island. However, she admitted to Sayid when she tortured him that she has never seen anyone else on the island before seeing Sayid, just whispers in the jungle.

She also called the smoke monster a security device.

Perhaps it was Lucifer that was dropping the rations from his winged beasts.


with the introduction of magic boxes that produce long lost con men, i'd say anything is possible at this point

They are not on a Island...

They are on the "Holo-Deck" on the Starship "Enterprise"

Data is having fun writing a program that throws in all these twists & turns...

Polar Bears...Black Smoke Clouds...

Next...We will found out that Ed Harris is the true leader of the "Island" and it was all just a new Reality TV show called "Truman Strikes Back"...


Charlie

But we know they have Desmond's sailboat, which is fully capable of long trips. Also, the boat they used to come back from the Hydra station a few eps back looked larger to me than the one they gave Michael to use.

But without sonar to guide it out, he just kept going in circles (Desmond).

Rousseau was part of a team of scientists that were on a boat that went to investigate the broadcast of the numbers when their boat went aground. They stayed on the island for a few weeks until the sickness got to the crew, and she had to kill them all. Although it is theorized that she has been on the island for 16 years (and Alex is about 16 years old), they really deduced that by back calculating the iterations of her message that she set up at the radio tower.

She is definitely a survivalist, and seems to know her way around the island. However, she admitted to Sayid when she tortured him that she has never seen anyone else on the island before seeing Sayid, just whispers in the jungle.

She also called the smoke monster a security device.

Something doesnt seem to be adding up here....measure Rousseaus story as detailed above versus what he have learned....that Alex is the daughter of Rousseau & Ben....yet Ben says he's been on the island "his whole life"....when exactly did she become pregnant....while she was on the island, like Sun, correct? It seems to me perhaps Rousseau is lying, or speaking in half truths (not on this show, heaven forbid), as she said she had never seen anyone else on the island.

I think the general concensus is Ben "adopted" Alex after they captured her and isn't her biological father.

It is very possible that Locke submergeed the submarine and blew up the boat that looked to be docked in front of it. That would explain why he was all wet and why we never saw an actual shoit of the sub after Locke went down through the hatch.

Maybe he really was a former Naval captain! :D

You people never read The Third Policeman, referenced early in Season 2, did you?

Perhaps now is the time to do so...

(Hint: The "magic box" is real.)

~Dan

If you know something about it, feel free to share, in spoiler tags of course.

Not in this thread - feel free to use the Spoilers thread though.

Oops, sorry...I forgot the policy for this thread...

It is very possible that Locke submergeed the submarine and blew up the boat that looked to be docked in front of it. That would explain why he was all wet and why we never saw an actual shoit of the sub after Locke went down through the hatch.

I am not sure about the technicalities of submerging a sub, but what does it take to keep it submerged? And how does Locke submerge the sub, and get out of it without flooding it in the process of getting out? Through the torpedo tubes ?? :) But this seems to be too small a sub for torpedos. It is not like you could submerge it remotely.

Maybe he moored the sub at a different location on the island? But you have to assume that that location would be far enough away from the Others' camp so that they don't find it again. If it was moored far enough, did Locke trek or swim all the way back to the Others' camp?

Something doesn't make sense about saving the submarine theory. Maybe he just blew it up.

Something doesn't make sense about saving the submarine theory. Maybe he just blew it up.

I watched the scene with the explosion again last night. The submarine cannot be seen at the end of the dock when the explosion occurs. Unfortunately, that doesn't really answer anything, since there are a few reasons why it wouldn't be in the shot: It was too dark, wrong perspective, or the special effects guys were too cheap to put a model sub in there for the explosion. If the sub had been visible, that would've been the end of that discussion. (One thing I forgot to check: were the dock lights on earlier in the episode when Alex took him to the dock? Because they were definitely OFF when the explosion happened.)

Locke was soaked. It wasn't sweat, he must've gone for a swim. We know he went inside the sub (btw, that was a great throwback shot of him looking down the submarine hatch). Since he could plant the explosives on the inside of the sub, there is zero reason for him to go in the water, unless he moved the sub somewhere else and swam back.

And I like mr2828's theory that Ben got himself caught on purpose to meet Locke. There wasn't really any other reason for him to be out there, and he is too clever to get captured in a simple net trap.

Oops, sorry...I forgot the policy for this thread...

Yeah, that's a tough one, considering the name of the thread is "LOST - on ABC in HDTV - NO SPOILERS" :D

I am not sure about the technicalities of submerging a sub, but what does it take to keep it submerged? And how does Locke submerge the sub, and get out of it without flooding it in the process of getting out? Through the torpedo tubes ?? :) But this seems to be too small a sub for torpedos. It is not like you could submerge it remotely.



You flood the ballast tanks with water. When you want to surface, you force the water out with high pressure air.

Probably doesn't have a torpedo tube, but perhaps it has an escape/divers hatch.

wow, it has been a while since I was able to post here, The new time slot is F@#$ing me up. I have all the episodes recorded and I am finally caught up. Claire is Jacks brother rumored for years and finally revealed. Actually since last year. We saw the sub, unfortunately it was only for a few seconds then BOOM!! Mrs. klugh returned only to die!! What was she saying did anyone get that translated. No I haven't scrolled back to see if someone did. I would assume it was translated so if anyone could send a link it would be greatly appreciated. If nobody has I will be shocked. Patchy gets brian fried and the Losties are hostages again. What the hell? Did we just go full circle? How many guns do the Losties have? The others keep taking them, How were Locke, Kate, Sayid, and Ross fully armed. Charlie will die, that sucks. If he does you know it will happen right after he Hits that, you guys know what I mean. How did daddy dearest end up there? Don't tell me that, that is next weeks surprise.
In my opinion, the show has kept me interested and have given a few fish baskets to us. Which makes it more enjoyable. The fact that next week is new and so on, Makes me enjoy the show even more then before. If I could just stay awake till 11pm. !0:15 is when I gets a case of heavy eyes. Maybe I should tell my boss that I will be late every thursday. Do you think that will work?

I thought all Locke's dealings with his dad were in California. Do we know definitively that his dad is indeed "the man from Tallahassee"?

Yeah, that's a tough one, considering the name of the thread is "LOST - on ABC in HDTV - NO SPOILERS" :D

Point taken. :) But most "no spoilers" threads allow for spoilers as long as they are in spoiler tags. What I forgot was that this one is different from that.

Apropos of nothing, that guy that was wheeling Ben around at the end of the show was a regular on older sitcoms "Suddenly Susan" and "Veronica's Closet." I was wondering where I knew him from.

Looks like he's had a lot of recent other work as well, so we can probably expect to see more out of him:

http://imdb.com/name/nm0004801/

wow, it has been a while since I was able to post here, The new time slot is F@#$ing me up. If I could just stay awake till 11pm. 10:15 is when I gets a case of heavy eyes. Maybe I should tell my boss that I will be late every thursday. Do you think that will work?

Or you could move to the central time zone!

Just remembered from the Claire/bird rescue episode that Sawyer was reading Ayn Rand's Fountainhead. Not familiar with the book but I wonder if that gives anyone who is any insights.There are myriad philosophical themes in the book that could be applied to the characters and situations of Lost, but something I find interesting:

Ayn Rand lists among her influences, the English philosopher named...John Locke.

Coincidence? :D

In my opinion, the show has...given a few fish baskets to us...

An excellent metaphor nutty! :)

Point taken. :) But most "no spoilers" threads allow for spoilers as long as they are in spoiler tags. What I forgot was that this one is different from that.

Honest mistake - don't sweat it.

But just to clarify, all spoilers should be in spoiler tags in all show discussion threads. The two or three "No Spoiler" threads are the exceptions where no spoilers are to be posted (even with tags).

Okay, there you go. Thanks.

So as not to spin this thread into another of those "spoiler discussion" topics, I'll comment that I'm pretty intrigued by the idea that Locke didn't destroy the sub. On my first view, he just appeared to be really sweaty (he's always sweaty it seems) and I didn't think anything of it.

Wouldn't it be great if he really was in the Navy when he joked about it to Ben? Afterall, we've only seem him from about the last 7-8 years ago.

Yeah i like the hidden sub theory too. the first thing i noticed was locke was to wet to just be sweaty when he walked up the dock. i also thought Ben's reaction to the for all you know i was a Navy whatever line was a little weird. though maybe he was just shocked at Lockes humor.
Jake

Where is this "Lost" spoilers thread everyone keeps mentioning? I looked through all ten pages of threads in this section but did not see it. Did I just overlook it or is it somewhere else?

Where is this "Lost" spoilers thread everyone keeps mentioning? I looked through all ten pages of threads in this section but did not see it. Did I just overlook it or is it somewhere else?

It's apparently, ahem, "lost". I noticed the other day that the last post to it was back on 3 October.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=517981

We went from tons of spoilers available for Lost to next to nothing. Last spoiler posted was Evangeline Lilly saying on Jimmy Kimmel that she'd hook-up with either Sawyer or Jack sometime in Season 3.

Why are posts like this allowed?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10096530&&#post10096530

Why are posts like this allowed?...

Because Panther missed it, obviously!

Because Panther missed it, obviously!

Yep.

I'll miss quite a few now that I have to Tivo the show and don't get to watch it for a day or two (so I stay out of this thread). If anyone sees a spoiler, or any spoiler tags at all - PM me a link and I'll delete it.

There are myriad philosophical themes in the book that could be applied to the characters and situations of Lost, but something I find interesting:

Ayn Rand lists among her influences, the English philosopher named...John Locke.

Coincidence? :D

The only significance to Sawyer reading The Fountainhead are:

a) He has incredibly bad taste in literature.

or

b) They are completely out of any other books to read.

I sort of remember reading The Fountainhead back in college but personally can't see any real connection to Lost or even Locke's character.

- Tom

Does anyone think the main reason Ben got himself captured in the 2nd season was to get near Locke to try and figure out how he got healed?

This might make a little sense as to why he put himself into such danger rather than letting a flunky investigate the Swan and losties. Ben was probably trying to keep his tumor real hush hush - doesn't want it to get out that he's fallible or that the "island hates him", so he had to go do this himself.

While there are lots of other mysteries to be resolved this particular one has nagged at me since it aired. Ben was caught in one of Rousseau's traps. SHE was the one who alerted the Losties that he was captured. How would Ben have been able to orchestrate his own capture so he could be near Locke if Rousseau was the catalyst?

Let's say the Ben group was monitoring her since she went off the deep end and killed her compatriots. She effectively lived in isolation for 16 years. She had no idea Alex was with Ben (she thought Alex was dead) although Ben likely knew who Alex belonged to. Ben may have observed her contact with the Losties but at the time of his capture, I find it hard to think he could count on her to turn him over to them. As deranged as she appeared to be, I would think he could have counted on her killing him if she captured him.

I agree that everything we have learned since Ben's internment with the Losties seems to point that it was his plan to be captured (and to get beaten to a pulp by Sayid :rolleyes: ), I find it difficult to swallow when knowing Rousseau's role.

Maybe Ben used the "box".

Because Panther missed it, obviously!Yep.

I'll miss quite a few now that I have to Tivo the show and don't get to watch it for a day or two (so I stay out of this thread). If anyone sees a spoiler, or any spoiler tags at all - PM me a link and I'll delete it.
Ooops :o

So now I know, no spoiler tags. So was the item I posted actually a spoiler? I wasn't sure.

...How would Ben have been able to orchestrate his own capture so he could be near Locke if Rousseau was the catalyst?
...
I find it hard to think he could count on her to turn him over to them. As deranged as she appeared to be, I would think he could have counted on her killing him if she captured him...
I agree. That's really a stretch. So is the idea that Ben counted on Locke finding the C4, finding the others' camp, finding the submarine, and then blowing it up. It could happen, uh, right.

I also have a hard time picturing Locke rigging the C4 on a timer, undocking the sub, starting up the diesel engines, piloting the sub out of the harbor single-handed, docking or anchoring the sub in a hidey-hide, and finally swimming back to the dock - just in time for the explosion to go off.

I agree. That's really a stretch. So is the idea that Ben counted on Locke finding the C4, finding the others' camp, finding the submarine, and then blowing it up. It could happen, uh, right.


I don't think Ben planned it at all. Remember his speech to Locke about how he didn't know what he was going to do about Jack and Juliete leaving? Then in comes Locke out of the jungle with a pack of C4 ready to blow up his sub. He used it as an example of the Island "providing" what he needed.

He used a similar speech in recruiting Jack to do his surgery. Said that he had developed a spinal tumor only to have a spinal surgeon fall out of the sky.

Okay, there you go. Thanks.

So as not to spin this thread into another of those "spoiler discussion" topics, I'll comment that I'm pretty intrigued by the idea that Locke didn't destroy the sub. On my first view, he just appeared to be really sweaty (he's always sweaty it seems) and I didn't think anything of it.

Wouldn't it be great if he really was in the Navy when he joked about it to Ben? Afterall, we've only seem him from about the last 7-8 years ago.
I think you guys are on target with this one. The good observation was that Locke was Wet, not sweat wet but like he took a swim wet. I was wondering why he was so wet, but this scenario does make sense. They don't show it as if the scene was in real time so we don't know how much time it took for him to "plant' the c-4 or just attach it to the dock itself. Think about it when you go into a sub, don't they show the entrance close to the middle of the sub. If that is the case why would he go inside and appear to be walking to the front of the sub.


On the spoiler topic, if you think it can be a spoiler, it porbbly is. The safe way to work is put a spoiiler tag on everything questionable and let people that don't care about true spoilers give you a heads up if it is or isn't.

On the spoiler topic, if you think it can be a spoiler, it porbbly is. The safe way to work is put a spoiiler tag on everything questionable and let people that don't care about true spoilers give you a heads up if it is or isn't.
That's what I thought, but that is wrong. NO SPOILERS means no spoiler tags at all.

I don't think Ben planned it at all. Remember his speech to Locke about how he didn't know what he was going to do about Jack and Juliete leaving? Then in comes Locke out of the jungle with a pack of C4 ready to blow up his sub. He used it as an example of the Island "providing" what he needed.
Yeah you're right on that one. I misremembered.

I think you guys are on target with this one. The good observation was that Locke was Wet, not sweat wet but like he took a swim wet. I was wondering why he was so wet, but this scenario does make sense. They don't show it as if the scene was in real time so we don't know how much time it took for him to "plant' the c-4 or just attach it to the dock itself. Think about it when you go into a sub, don't they show the entrance close to the middle of the sub. If that is the case why would he go inside and appear to be walking to the front of the sub.


On the spoiler topic, if you think it can be a spoiler, it porbbly is. The safe way to work is put a spoiiler tag on everything questionable and let people that don't care about true spoilers give you a heads up if it is or isn't.
Here's what convinces me that Locke might have hijacked the sub instead of destroying it. It's not that he was wet. It's not even that we didn't actually see it when it blew up.

The reason I think the whole scenerio is possible is that Locke seemed to know exactly what switch (and the location of said switch) to flip to turn on the lights. If you walked into a darkened submarine, could you find the lightswitch? He didn't fumble for it or anything - he just reached over and turned it on.

Here's what convinces me that Locke might have hijacked the sub instead of destroying it. It's not that he was wet. It's not even that we didn't actually see it when it blew up.

The reason I think the whole scenerio is possible is that Locke seemed to know exactly what switch (and the location of said switch) to flip to turn on the lights. If you walked into a darkened submarine, could you find the lightswitch? He didn't fumble for it or anything - he just reached over and turned it on.

Another helpful clue. Good catch.

Here's what convinces me that Locke might have hijacked the sub instead of destroying it. It's not that he was wet. It's not even that we didn't actually see it when it blew up.

The reason I think the whole scenerio is possible is that Locke seemed to know exactly what switch (and the location of said switch) to flip to turn on the lights. If you walked into a darkened submarine, could you find the lightswitch? He didn't fumble for it or anything - he just reached over and turned it on.
maybe he clapped but they didn't show that because we might think it was silly.

If you go back to the Patch guy episodes, when Locke heard him talk of the sub he seemed very interested. Like someone who was planning something.

That's what I thought, but that is wrong. NO SPOILERS means no spoiler tags at all.
Steve, I must be crazy because I remember having this conversation right after season 3 part 1. There were many possible spoilers posted but as long as they were tagged, all was good. Did that change since then? I am here like everyone else here to follow the rules properly so can we get them straight!

Given the vagueness of the "16 years ago" timing, is it possible that Ben & Rousseau might have gotten together and Alex really IS Ben's daughter? Helps explain why she didn't ask Kate any questions about Alex when Kate told her she saw Alex. She had to help Ben ghet into that net. If he was trying to be captured, it seems like a bit of a stretch that he was lucky enough to stumble into that net without knowing it was there AND having a detailed cover story that ties to the guy that crashed the balloon.

I'm also hard pressed to believe Rousseau's comments that in 16 years she never saw anyone else on the island. How did she miss the huge set of electric security posts, the eye patch guy's farm, the dock the Others use? You can't swing a tail section without hitting an Other.

Also, if Dharma was using a VW bus to travel around when they were in full swing, how did she not hear them - there had to be a bunch of them scampering around the island 16 years ago? Where are the graves of the scientists she killed?

I'm guessing that she will end up being a major cog when the solution finally appears.

Steve, I must be crazy because I remember having this conversation right after season 3 part 1. There were many possible spoilers posted but as long as they were tagged, all was good. Did that change since then? I am here like everyone else here to follow the rules properly so can we get them straight!

Yes, we've had this conversation before and the end result is the same:

No Spoilers. Period.

If it wasn't in the show or the previews that run at the end of each show, it doesn't go in the thread. You can speculate all you want, but outside stuff is a spoiler.

Some people have posted links to articles and warned of spoilers, but generally even those are frowned upon.

Given the vagueness of the "16 years ago" timing, is it possible that Ben & Rousseau might have gotten together and Alex really IS Ben's daughter? Helps explain why she didn't ask Kate any questions about Alex when Kate told her she saw Alex. She had to help Ben ghet into that net. If he was trying to be captured, it seems like a bit of a stretch that he was lucky enough to stumble into that net without knowing it was there AND having a detailed cover story that ties to the guy that crashed the balloon.

I'm also hard pressed to believe Rousseau's comments that in 16 years she never saw anyone else on the island. How did she miss the huge set of electric security posts, the eye patch guy's farm, the dock the Others use? You can't swing a tail section without hitting an Other.

Also, if Dharma was using a VW bus to travel around when they were in full swing, how did she not hear them - there had to be a bunch of them scampering around the island 16 years ago? Where are the graves of the scientists she killed?

I'm guessing that she will end up being a major cog when the solution finally appears.
First, Danielle actually told kate why she didn't ask any questions. It was a whole thing that compared it to Kate potentially not seeing Jack for a few decades. So much time has passed, there would be no common ground to share. In a sense, Alex was no longer her daughter. She would be asking questions about a stranger.

As far as not seeing the Others, she just avoided them. She actively made sure she stayed away from where they were. He, however was the first "other" she met face-to-face - or so she thought. She even admitted not really doing any exploring. She pretty much hunkered down in her bunker and only came out to hunt.

As far as the bus, while it's doubtful in real life it would have actually started after sitting for very long, we really don't know ho long it had been there. We can only assume it was new when brought to the island. Danielle had only been there for 16 years. That's maybe 1988 or 89, since I believe the year is 2003 in the show. If the bus was brought there in the 60's, that almost 30 years for it to end up there.

As far as the other scientists graves, she may have just dug a big whole and dropped them all in if she killed them all at the same time.

Wouldn't it be pretty cool, if Locke let Sayid torture his father?

That'd be some high-speed television right there.

Wouldn't it be pretty cool, if Locke let Sayid torture his father?

That'd be some high-speed television right there.
Man from Tallahassee? Meet man from Iraq. I'd tell you to shake hands, but it appears you have splints under your nails...

Yes, we've had this conversation before and the end result is the same:

No Spoilers. Period.

If it wasn't in the show or the previews that run at the end of each show, it doesn't go in the thread. You can speculate all you want, but outside stuff is a spoiler.

Some people have posted links to articles and warned of spoilers, but generally even those are frowned upon.

I am not in the position to give any spoilers because I know no one from the set of LOST. You said it the best with that final line, "but generally even those are frowned upon". That basically says it all. Any spoiler that I may have read or been exposed to stays with me until air date.

Ray, I think Danielle mentioned in season one that she had to kill the father of her child or husband because he was sick. I will look into that when I get home. This is why Ben wooldn't be the father, Plus remember that Danielle was the one who caught Ben in the trap, Do you really think a woman would not know the father of her child? Rule #1 in the men's guide to women is: A women never fogets!!

Man from Tallahassee? Meet man from Iraq. I'd tell you to shake hands, but it appears you have splints under your nails...

Funny thing is, I went to school in Tallahassee and got a government sponsored vacation to Iraq.....and except for the sand, I could not tell you the difference.

Oh another thing that would be great....Kate being naked in all her scenes.

That was a good point about Locke knowing how to turn on the sub lights.

Also one final piece to the hidden sub theory would be that he didn't seem to have his gun or stuff with him at the end when he got captured. Perhaps left that with the sub.

... I think Danielle mentioned in season one that she had to kill the father of her child or husband because he was sick. I will look into that when I get home. This is why Ben wooldn't be the father, Plus remember that Danielle was the one who caught Ben in the trap, Do you really think a woman would not know the father of her child? Rule #1 in the men's guide to women is: A women never fogets!!

Was it Robert?

Maybe he really was a former Naval captain! :D

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention this...

I could've sworn that in the scene where the son (of the woman Locke's dad was scamming) visits Locke's apartment there were a bunch of military looking patches framed on the wall behind Locke's couch. Maybe they aren't military patches, but that's what came to mind when I saw them.

I don't have the episode saved to go back and check. Maybe someone else can go and verify.

Henry Gale may believe he is Lost... but Penelope knows their location and will be coming to the Island soon.

RockDawg, yes those were military patches. I couldn't tell what branch but they looked Army or Marines just comparing them to what i've seen in the past, although I have never been in the military. I do have the episode saved but it will be tonight before I get to it.

...Also, if Dharma was using a VW bus to travel around when they were in full swing, how did she not hear them...

How did she (and the 'Losties') not hear THE COWS for that matter. The sound of their "bawling" really carries, especially at night.

Yes, we've had this conversation before and the end result is the same:

No Spoilers. Period.

If it wasn't in the show or the previews that run at the end of each show, it doesn't go in the thread. You can speculate all you want, but outside stuff is a spoiler.

That's the way I remember it... :)