Damn! It's nearly Friday evening and there's still actual LOST-based, coherent discussion going on :eek:.



ron

Damn! It's nearly Friday evening and there's still actual LOST-based, coherent discussion going on :eek:.



ron

Yes, after a long time !! It was that good an episode.

It would be a great idea to while the time before the next episode, to start listing the most memorable episodes and list the writing and directorial credits for those standout episodes. :)

Well, lessee....so far there's been only like three stand-out episodes this season. The one with Eko's demise (Psalm 23), and the last two most recently aired.

If the first thing that comes out of that magic box aren't a couple of hot blondes - I'm gonna scream foul. ;)

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention this...

I could've sworn that in the scene where the son (of the woman Locke's dad was scamming) visits Locke's apartment there were a bunch of military looking patches framed on the wall behind Locke's couch. Maybe they aren't military patches, but that's what came to mind when I saw them.

I don't have the episode saved to go back and check. Maybe someone else can go and verify.

There seems to be several clues that Locke may have manuvered the sub away and not blown it up.
- he was dripping wet so he was in the water
- he found the sub light switch easily
- he has a possible military background due to sightings in his apartment

Also, I seem to remember Ben calling him out on his plan, saying something like, "A submarine is a complicated piece of machinery, John, what are you going to do?" To which John replies smugly, "I'll figure something out."

I don't think that was a throwaway line - this seems like another hint. All this together makes a compelling case for hiding the sub and faking the explosion. I sure hope so - it would be a lot cooler thing for Locke to do and would make up for a lot of the boneheaded things he's done lately.

Apropos of nothing, that guy that was wheeling Ben around at the end of the show was a regular on older sitcoms "Suddenly Susan" and "Veronica's Closet." I was wondering where I knew him from.

Looks like he's had a lot of recent other work as well, so we can probably expect to see more out of him:

http://imdb.com/name/nm0004801/

He was the same guy who recruited Juliet in the episode "Not in Portland".

There seems to be several clues that Locke may have manuvered the sub away and not blown it up.
- he was dripping wet so he was in the water
- he found the sub light switch easily
- he has a possible military background due to sightings in his apartment

Also, I seem to remember Ben calling him out on his plan, saying something like, "A submarine is a complicated piece of machinery, John, what are you going to do?" To which John replies smugly, "I'll figure something out."

I don't think that was a throwaway line - this seems like another hint. All this together makes a compelling case for hiding the sub and faking the explosion. I sure hope so - it would be a lot cooler thing for Locke to do and would make up for a lot of the boneheaded things he's done lately.
I dunno. I can't buy that the sub explosion can be faked. If something like a sub explodes (or even just sinks from a hull breach) you're definitely gonna see traces of it, if only fuel and oil in the water. Also, don't forget - the sub was presumably docked just off shore, in water that's probably not very deep. It's not gonna fool any of the Others if they don't see the wreckage of a sub directly beneath where it was docked.

As for why Locke was wet... maybe he slipped and fell in the water while racing to exit a sub that's about to explode. As for the light switch, everyone knows that they're usually located just to the right of the doorway. :D

...

As for why Locke was wet... maybe he slipped and fell in the water while racing to exit a sub that's about to explode. As for the light switch, everyone knows that they're usually located just to the right of the doorway. :D

You should visit my house back home.. you would scrape the paint off the walls feeling them for the light switch before you chanced on one !! :D

The army patches or whatever on the wall in Locke's apartment flashback were discussed elsewhere on the internet, and some people said it looked more like a poster that has pictures of them. Someone even found a link to where you can buy the poster I think.

Plus if was in the Navy, why would he have Army patches?

Plus if was in the Navy, why would he have Army patches?

Branch envy. ;)

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention this...

I could've sworn that in the scene where the son (of the woman Locke's dad was scamming) visits Locke's apartment there were a bunch of military looking patches framed on the wall behind Locke's couch. Maybe they aren't military patches, but that's what came to mind when I saw them.

I don't have the episode saved to go back and check. Maybe someone else can go and verify.
We know that Locke thought of himself as a military man. He played "Risk" on his lunch hour and kept a persona that would have indicated such.

However, Randy, his supervisor, called him out on it in a flashback by saying he never was in the military. We don't know if Randy was correct or not, but Locke didn't correct him. We may yet learn Locke was some covert military guy early on, but was discharged due to some incident - and his non-disclosure agreement forbids him from discussing it. That may very well be why he was so down and out in the flashbacks we saw. If you can't put "secret agent" on your resume, it's hard to explain the gaps in employment.

Maybe Locke has just read a whole u-boat load of Tom Clancy novels...

I dunno. I can't buy that the sub explosion can be faked. If something like a sub explodes (or even just sinks from a hull breach) you're definitely gonna see traces of it, if only fuel and oil in the water. Also, don't forget - the sub was presumably docked just off shore, in water that's probably not very deep. It's not gonna fool any of the Others if they don't see the wreckage of a sub directly beneath where it was docked.

As for why Locke was wet... maybe he slipped and fell in the water while racing to exit a sub that's about to explode. As for the light switch, everyone knows that they're usually located just to the right of the doorway. :D

I agree it's a stretch, but if we can buy into nanobot swarms that read minds and islands with healing powers then this isn't that crazy.

The fact that Locke was dripping wet has to mean something. Sure, in real life he could have just fallen in, but they wouldn't have filmed it this way without a reason. I wonder if it's related to when Sayid and his girl saw Walt in the forest just before Anna Lucia shot her - he was dripping wet as well.

I dunno. I can't buy that the sub explosion can be faked. If something like a sub explodes (or even just sinks from a hull breach) you're definitely gonna see traces of it, if only fuel and oil in the water. Also, don't forget - the sub was presumably docked just off shore, in water that's probably not very deep. It's not gonna fool any of the Others if they don't see the wreckage of a sub directly beneath where it was docked.

As for why Locke was wet... maybe he slipped and fell in the water while racing to exit a sub that's about to explode. As for the light switch, everyone knows that they're usually located just to the right of the doorway. :D
It's a stretch, but so is everything else on TV. Crime scene investigators don't interrogate suspects, go on raids or (often) even work anywhere near the locales they serve since most of those operations are centralized. Government agencies usually don't use Macs, have dozens of moles and seldom tolorate insubordination or "rogue" behavior. It's rare for even one prison inmate to escape, much less over a half a dozen.

Honestly, I have more of a problem with the 8-story fall Locke took. More than 3 stories is usually fatal onto pavement. Sure, people DO survive parachutes not opening, but most people who fall from more than a few stories end up on a stainless steel table rather than a hospital bed. Even those that do survive very often end up in the produce asle. Taking it one step further, it's really hard to actually push someone through a window on a modern multi-story building. Really hard.

Honestly, I have more of a problem with the 8-story fall Locke took. More than 3 stories is usually fatal onto pavement.

Maybe it doesn't matter and maybe I'm wrong but I thought Locke landed on grass?

Honestly, I have more of a problem with the 8-story fall Locke took...

Well, we've already accepted his survival in the plane crash...

Maybe it doesn't matter and maybe I'm wrong but I thought Locke landed on grass?
I believe he hit the sidewalk between the building and the grass.

Well, we've already accepted his survival in the plane crash...
Which is yet another aspect of suspension of disbelief. I can accept the people on the show will assume the sub has been blown up since I'm able to accept that close to 50 people survived a plane crash where the aircraft broke apart in midair.

I can even accept that the theory is wrong and Locke really did blow it up.

If you have any critical thinking skills and apply them to TV shows, you'll not enjoy them.
Zone out and enjoy, or simply don't watch.

If you have any critical thinking skills and apply them to TV shows, you'll not enjoy them.
Zone out and enjoy, or simply don't watch.
That's not always true. Look at the first two seasons of Lost. There was plenty to think about and really compare notes on. Season 3....not so much. They seem to be getting back on track, though. Part of the reason I like the show so much is talking about it.

if Locke did indeed move the sub because he really was a captain in the navy the most interesting part to me would be how the hell didn't dharma/other's "file" on Locke list that? They seem to know like everything about these people so it would be neat that locke has something they don't know about....

Taking it one step further, it's really hard to actually push someone through a window on a modern multi-story building. Really hard.

Try like impossible.

Why are the producers making Locke so damn stupid? He seemed to be more intelligent in previous seasons.

Why are the producers making Locke so damn stupid? He seemed to be more intelligent in previous seasons.It does seem like he's being portrayed at the fall guy / loose cannon these days... completely opposite from season's 1 & 2. Maybe the Producers want to make him look bad so we won't be as unhappy when his character is killed off?

This season has pushed many of our favorite Losties to the fringe: Jin, Charlie, Claire, Hugo & Sun... which makes sense when it comes time to whittle the cast down by a few characters.

Try like impossible.
Not impossible - just highly improbable. Usually, the whole paine pops out due to a defective installation rather than the pane actually breaking, though. The safety glass in modern buildings takes quite a wallop to actually break it.

Maybe like someone posted earlier Locke was actually in the military, but part of his release was that his files were to be destroyed and no records kept and he wasn't allowed to speak of his time. This would explain why the others have no records of him being in the navy :eek:

Maybe like someone posted earlier Locke was actually in the military, but part of his release was that his files were to be destroyed and no records kept and he wasn't allowed to speak of his time. This would explain why the others have no records of him being in the navy :eek:

The curious thing is that the Others also seem to have comprehensive psychological profiles of the Losties, as if someone were watching them all the time. That would make it rather surprising if the Others missed Locke's military/navy background.

What about the darkness of the area? They aren't standing at Times Sq NYC they are standing on a little beach/ port where the only light was flistlight or gas sticks. There No daylight yet. This Sub story line will not be drawn out. He will have to tell them once the sunrises. But his bargining chip is much bigger then the Chips BEN thinks he is using. I think he will let his frends use to leave the island. But he will really be transporting them back to camp Lostie and then many turns will be open by then. Jack, Saiyd, Sawyer, Kate are signed through the next year. Might not be them getting the ride. Charlie and Claire will be told by Jack that they need to go because he finally finds out that she is his sister anbd he olwasy has to rescue someone. Rose & Bernard are the other choices with a 5 being the person that will try to get back there.

This was this season and things I might have read here or picked up watching:
Remember when the Others went to get the boat from the Lostes. Before the mission one of them said take a small group like, implying there is only room for few, after she died I think they said something about rushing a mission with to many peole

Well, lessee....so far there's been only like three stand-out episodes this season. The one with Eko's demise (Psalm 23), and the last two most recently aired.
Only 3? really!! I am shokced. You usually reall like the show. I give them at least 5-7, Locke's resolution and the Escape being 2 of them. The Season finale(pt1) did what it was suppose to do they made me WANT to be back in Feb. The show is still below par of any other scripted Drama. The Networks want 24 stand out episodes but they know that is unrealistic, so they want at least 2 a month. The good thing is we still have another 8 or 9 episodes to get to and surpass the mark. With everything they have showed us this far. It might have been be a bumby ride with a little to many "WTF's" However everything that we have thought about and scene during this seas which will lead us to the best cliffhanger. Just like the episodes have been doing so far this second half, at least the last 3 have, They have led to a bigger question or a "what happens next."momment then BAMM we are right there again hoping that the 6 days 167 hrours 59minite 59seconds goes faster this time.

3 days 7 hrs 45 min 30 sec

Just a thought I had in re-watching the latest episode over the weekend:

What if Locke's dad is actually Jacob? A slick con-man that can talk people into going to a remote island to "save the world". It just seems so improbable that he would happen to be there.

Also, that could be the source of Ben's insight into Locke's background. It might not be that there is some supernatural way he knew about Locke's injury, he just heard about it from the man that caused it.

...but go to Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, etc. and you will think you are somewhere in the North.

I just got back from Miami (I live in the North), and I thought I was in a different country. I felt out of place for speaking English! :eek:

Here's something interesting. Here's a picture of the portrait Ben has on his wall:

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/lost.3.13.easter.egg.05.jpg

Is it just me, or does she look an awful lot like this woman, who happens to be the co-founder of Dharma:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Karen_degroot

Assuming it's the same woman, does he just have a lot of admiration for the founders or Dharma? Or even stranger... what if she's his mother? Interesting, either way...

Also, could she be holding one of the hamsters that provides electricity for the island? ;-)

It's a stretch, but so is everything else on TV. Crime scene investigators don't interrogate suspects, go on raids or (often) even work anywhere near the locales they serve since most of those operations are centralized. Government agencies usually don't use Macs, have dozens of moles and seldom tolorate insubordination or "rogue" behavior. It's rare for even one prison inmate to escape, much less over a half a dozen.

Honestly, I have more of a problem with the 8-story fall Locke took. More than 3 stories is usually fatal onto pavement. Sure, people DO survive parachutes not opening, but most people who fall from more than a few stories end up on a stainless steel table rather than a hospital bed. Even those that do survive very often end up in the produce asle. Taking it one step further, it's really hard to actually push someone through a window on a modern multi-story building. Really hard.


I am almost certain that Locke fell onto grass. Not that it should make a difference from 8 stories. However, I did hear a news report in the last couple weeks of a guy that was drunk and fell 10 or 11 stories from his hotel balcony and landed on a metal awning. He lived with some major injuries.

Just like many things on TV, Locke living after that fall is highly unlikely but not impossible.

I am almost certain that Locke fell onto grass. Not that it should make a difference from 8 stories. However, I did hear a news report in the last couple weeks of a guy that was drunk and fell 10 or 11 stories from his hotel balcony and landed on a metal awning. He lived with some major injuries.

Just like many things on TV, Locke living after that fall is highly unlikely but not impossible.

sounds like a story for MythBusters to try

I am almost certain that Locke fell onto grass.

Anything over 80ft is going to be like hitting concrete, regardless of the actual surface you are hitting.

Anything over 80ft is going to be like hitting concrete, regardless of the actual surface you are hitting.

Exactly why I said:

Not that it should make a difference from 8 stories.

After watching the scene again, it doesn't actually show him hit the ground from the above shot we see. It looks like he might land on grass, but there is a concrete area near where he is going to fall. Like Iteki said, it probably doesn't matter. But I said he hit grass for sure, so I wanted to retract that statement.

Oh man, here we go again. Reminds me of the gasoline discussion awhile back. Now we are debating someone hitting grass. It was an 8 store fall. That grass better be above a soft bed of an inflatible air mattress if it is going to matter at all.

after pausing on the sub explosion, it might be that Locke didnt blow it or moved it and planted the c4 at the end of the dock. The sub is just off to the left but the explosion is at the end of the dock.

looks like we wont know for few eps though

Well, if the writers tried to convince us that the sub wasn't rendered inoperable by that explosion, I'd cry foul.

Oh man, here we go again. Reminds me of the gasoline discussion awhile back. Now we are debating someone hitting grass. It was an 8 store fall. That grass better be above a soft bed of an inflatible air mattress if it is going to matter at all.

Well, at least discussing the possibility of survival after an 8 story fall has something to do with the recent episode, as opposed to my solicitations for advice regarding my lawnmower, which, while helpful to me personally, was ludicrously off topic. :)

And the most unrealistic thing about last week's episode wasn't Locke surviving the fall, or the window breaking in the first place. It was the way that Locke's physical therapist transfered him from the bed to the chair. We can all agree that it is possible for a person to survive an 8 story fall, even if the odds are astronomically small. A PT making a transfer like that? Never in a million years. So says my wife, anyway, who is a PT. But I guess that isn't as fun to discuss. ;)

Well, at least discussing the possibility of survival after an 8 story fall has something to do with the recent episode, as opposed to my solicitations for advice regarding my lawnmower, which, while helpful to me personally, was ludicrously off topic. :)

And the most unrealistic thing about last week's episode wasn't Locke surviving the fall, or the window breaking in the first place. It was the way that Locke's physical therapist transfered him from the bed to the chair. We can all agree that it is possible for a person to survive an 8 story fall, even if the odds are astronomically small. A PT making a transfer like that? Never in a million years. So says my wife, anyway, who is a PT. But I guess that isn't as fun to discuss. ;)

Trust me, if this show were in reruns....no topic is off limits. :-)

But here it is Monday and we are still talking about last week's LOST. Very encouraging.

I am almost certain that Locke fell onto grass. Not that it should make a difference from 8 stories. However, I did hear a news report in the last couple weeks of a guy that was drunk and fell 10 or 11 stories from his hotel balcony and landed on a metal awning. He lived with some major injuries.

Just like many things on TV, Locke living after that fall is highly unlikely but not impossible.
Almost as unlikely as a meteor crashing into a fast food chicken shack! :D

So, based on recent posts, we conclude:
1. Hugo is cursed.
2. Locke is blessed.
3. "LOST" is fiction.

Almost as unlikely as a meteor crashing into a fast food chicken shack! :D
Or was it an asteroid? I get those confused....

;)

In the words of the great John Locke, "We gotta watch that one again."

I replayed the scene with Locke and Alex in the closet when Ben hears "Dad, you awake?".

As many times as I have listened to it, to sounds like it was "Mr. Friendly" who said "Dad". Anybody else have this on a DVR? If so, see if you can confirm that. It true, Ben sure looks younger than his "son". Waddup?

Oh man, here we go again. Reminds me of the gasoline discussion awhile back. Now we are debating someone hitting grass. It was an 8 store fall. That grass better be above a soft bed of an inflatible air mattress if it is going to matter at all.

I think he fell on some boxes, that he made personally in Hurley's factory and had just been delivered from Widmore, to help Penny move her stuff to Desmond's house on the same day that he set sail without telling her.

And the emergency responder was Ana Lucia.

nope. Alex ask "dad, who are you talking to?" then walks into the room. MF knocks on the front door, comes in and ask Ben if he's awake.

My favorite Locke quote from last ep was the one fade out where he says, "This is gonna be a little more complicated than we thought.". Seemed like a pretty good double entendre with a little wink to the viewers there. Heck, maybe even a triple if you want to include the writers as well :D. The Locke fadeout at the end where he just says, "Dad?" was good too. The look on his face and the way he said it was pretty much perfect.


ron

Or was it an asteroid? I get those confused....

;)

Meteor until it breaks our atmosphere - then it's a meteorite. Impossible for the Earth to get hit by a meteor.

I think an asteroid is an inflammed growth on Uranus. ;)

nope. Alex ask "dad, who are you talking to?" then walks into the room. MF knocks on the front door, comes in and ask Ben if he's awake.

The sequence start at 17 minutes. Alex says "Dad, who are you talking to." After that there is a knock on the door and the voices say, "Dad, are you awake".

I think an asteroid is an inflammed growth on Uranus. ;)

LMAO! (pun intended)

get your hearing checked, he clearly says "Ben, are you awake"

My lawnmower started up last week with the same gasoline from last season. Took a few pumps of the primer bulb, but ran like a champ. ;)

Same here although last season here ended in November. :p

I am almost certain that Locke fell onto grass. Not that it should make a difference from 8 stories. However, I did hear a news report in the last couple weeks of a guy that was drunk and fell 10 or 11 stories from his hotel balcony and landed on a metal awning. He lived with some major injuries.

Just like many things on TV, Locke living after that fall is highly unlikely but not impossible.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17113222/

My lawnmower started up last week with the same gasoline from last season. Took a few pumps of the primer bulb, but ran like a champ. ;)

Uh-oh...here we go with the OT. But screw it, it's Tuesday. New ep tomorrow.

I also have a gas tank full of old gas in my mower, which I plan to start up on Saturday. Wish me luck. I'll keep you posted, I know you'll be riveted :-)

Meteor until it breaks our atmosphere - then it's a meteorite. Impossible for the Earth to get hit by a meteor.



The way I remember it from Astronomy class is that it's a meteoroid when it's out in space, a meteor as it is descending to earth (or any other planet), and a meteorite once it lands. :)

Meteor until it breaks our atmosphere - then it's a meteorite. Impossible for the Earth to get hit by a meteor.

Tell that to the dinosaurs. :)

Tell that to the dinosaurs. :)

The theory is that the extinction of the dinosaurs was due the collision of an asteroid or a comet with the Earth. That's a whole different ballgame.

The way I remember it from Astronomy class is that it's a meteoroid when it's out in space, a meteor as it is descending to earth (or any other planet), and a meteorite once it lands. :)

That's sounds right. Meteor as it comes through our atmosphere and meteorite once it lands. So you can get hit in the head by a meteor, but the ground can't. That means if you find yourself in a meteor shower - stop, drop and cover (with a light layer of dirt). Then you're perfectly safe. If you see a meteorite - jump up. ;)

Fortunately, we have thousands of meteorologists who should be able to give us plenty of warning. They've all been moonlighting as predictors of weather in which they are lucky to be right half the time - but within their specialty, they should be much more accurate. :)

That's sounds right. Meteor as it comes through our atmosphere and meteorite once it lands. So you can get hit in the head by a meteor, but the ground can't. That means if you find yourself in a meteor shower - stop, drop and cover (with a light layer of dirt). Then you're perfectly safe. If you see a meteorite - jump up. ;)

This is one of those things that I managed remember solely because of the made-up "word" I created for that specific purpose. "Oid-or-ite." It helped me remember, in order, which was which.

So, Hugo's little comment in that episode was particularly funny to me, because I had so much trouble keeping the different types straight. :)

Fortunately, we have thousands of meteorologists who should be able to give us plenty of warning. They've all been moonlighting as predictors of weather in which they are lucky to be right half the time - but within their specialty, they should be much more accurate. :)

No wonder they're so bad at predicting weather, it's not their expertise. Too bad there aren't more meteor showers for them to truly shine. Would explain why they get so excited when announcing upcoming meteor showers, even if they're occuring at 3am. :D

The theory is that the extinction of the dinosaurs was due the collision of an asteroid or a comet with the Earth. That's a whole different ballgame.

I'm pretty much in the camp that they didn't go extinct at all, and just evolved into what we now see as birds.

And no, we're not getting off topic, guys...just like the earlier Jurassic Park talk, this one about dinosaurs relates directly to the "monster" on the island. :D

get your hearing checked, he clearly says "Ben, are you awake"
He does say it kind of funny where the "Ben" is distorted a little. On first listen it sounds odd, but I rewound it twice last night & it's definitely "Ben", not "Dad".

Something that bothered me which I haven't seen brought up in this thread. On the barracks map (http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7615/map2nc5.jpg) where is the dock where the sub was (allegedly) blown up?

We see what looks to be the sound barrier perimeter all around the barracks, but somehow there's water in there? Or did everyone leave the perimeter to get to the dock? How? And they didn't show it at all?

The presence of the sound barriers on the map surrounding the barracks doesn't seem to jibe with the presence of the sub/dock.

Did I miss something? Or is this just artistic license on the part of the show? Or a bad/outdated map?

Something that bothered me which I haven't seen brought up in this thread. On the barracks map (http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7615/map2nc5.jpg) where is the dock where the sub was (allegedly) blown up?

We see what looks to be the sound barrier perimeter all around the barracks, but somehow there's water in there? Or did everyone leave the perimeter to get to the dock? How? And they didn't show it at all?

The presence of the sound barriers on the map surrounding the barracks doesn't seem to jibe with the presence of the sub/dock.

Did I miss something? Or is this just artistic license on the part of the show? Or a bad/outdated map?

How about a lake that is connected to the ocean via a large underground tunnel or cave system.

He does say it kind of funny where the "Ben" is distorted a little. On first listen it sounds odd, but I rewound it twice last night & it's definitely "Ben", not "Dad".

Thanks. You never know with Lost!

How about a lake that is connected to the ocean via a large underground tunnel or cave system.


that's it!

Ben is captain nemo's son.

The nuke that nemo set off never really destroyed the island becasue it was "special".

Maybe the giant squid is holding the sub....

or maybe they have a switch on that section to turn it off/on... but then how did Rousseau get there???

[sarcasm/] why do they keep giving news questions without answering old ones, I hate LOST[sarcasm/]

I wonder why Dharma products, which are not exactly known anywhere else in the world, need fancy logos and brand name identification for distribution by parachute drop on a deserted island.

It's not like they don't have a loyal customer base anyway.

- Tom

I wonder why Dharma products, which are not exactly known anywhere else in the world, need fancy logos and brand name identification for distribution by parachute drop on a deserted island.

It's not like they don't have a loyal customer base anyway.

- TomI disagree. Dharma has at least one very loyal customer base :D

get your hearing checked, he clearly says "Ben, are you awake"

He said goth

I thought this L.A. Times article on "LOST" about John Locke's character (and the actor who plays him) was interesting.

There are no spoilers unless you're not up to date with the series:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/tv/la-ca-lost25mar25,0,6719567,full.story?coll=la-headlines-entnews

I thought this L.A. Times article on "LOST" about John Locke's character (and the actor who plays him) was interesting.

There are no spoilers unless you're not up to date with the series:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/tv/la-ca-lost25mar25,0,6719567,full.story?coll=la-headlines-entnews

I agree that it was an interesting article, although it might be considered a bit spoilerish by some people. It didn't go into any specific plot elements, but it did have some general quotes from the writers on how Locke fits into the overall story...it was all pretty vague so I'd think only the most anal spoiler avoider would take issue.

They also mentioned how many more episodes until we get back to the Locke story arc, which some people might not want to know. Although I'm sure they'll put it in the previews when the time comes, so good luck staying in the dark about that.

Sorry to interrupt the incredible banter about meteors, asteroids, and gas, but I thought this was worth noting.

On the podcast this week they answered a question about the 2nd island. Back in season 1 when Sayid was looking at Rousseau's map, they answered that the 2nd island is clearly shown on the map. I don't have time to look it up on the DVD, but if anyone does and can verify that would be great.

So for all of you who think they're making the whole thing up, looks like at least this one was planned from the beginning.


tim

I wonder why Dharma products, which are not exactly known anywhere else in the world, need fancy logos and brand name identification for distribution by parachute drop on a deserted island.

It's not like they don't have a loyal customer base anyway.

- Tom

It's sort of like Amway, You know Amway branded products exist, but who has ever actually seen them, except those who sell Amway products.

Sorry any Amway people offended out there - just making a point.

Sorry to interrupt the incredible banter about meteors, asteroids, and gas, but I thought this was worth noting.

On the podcast this week they answered a question about the 2nd island. Back in season 1 when Sayid was looking at Rousseau's map, they answered that the 2nd island is clearly shown on the map. I don't have time to look it up on the DVD, but if anyone does and can verify that would be great.

So for all of you who think they're making the whole thing up, looks like at least this one was planned from the beginning.


tim

just choose a fan site and they'll have pics of everything.

and oops, I already said they werent coming back to Locke for a few eps. guess no one cared...

It's Lando! Instantly best episode of the season.

Who's Nikki?

I don't know if I like them showing scenes from the first episode and just inserting Nikki like that. Is there any chance she was there and we just missed her before, if that's possible? Part of the good thing about Lost was that paying attention early on could pay off in small ways later. If they're going to re-shoot previous scenes to insert stuff in flashbacks, I'm going to be a little annoyed.

Wow. Wasn't expecting to see Artz, Shannon and Boone. I'm pretty sure the crash scene was partially recreated for Nikki's sake :rolleyes:. Did Smokey get her and Paulo?

Loved her comment about what happens to guest stars.

- Tom

This is the best episode of the season...

I loved the cheesey opening sequence from "Expose'"

"He wasn't saying 'you're next' about them, he was saying you're next as in...you're all next."

"Yeah, that's not really better..."

ok, so these two nobodies basically found everything before anyone else did, saw Ben and the others before anyone else did, found out about the Others' plan to manipulate Jack, and, of course, didn't tell anyone.

Yeesh.

Sounds about right for this show...

yet Paolo is complaining about not "being included".

ok, so these two nobodies basically found everything before anyone else did, saw Ben and the others before anyone else did, found out about the Others' plan to manipulate Jack, and, of course, didn't tell anyone.

Yeesh.

Well obviously Paolo ain't the nicest guy out there...

He can't exactly tell them all about what he heard without exposing what he how he found his way down there and what he was doing ;)

yet Paolo is complaining about not "being included".

Because he was curious as to why Nikki was so anxious to go with them...

They should have called this episode "I confess".....

....oh, wait, that's this week's "Desperate Housewives"....

from the way she said it, it sounds like he had been complaining about it before and now she's doing something about it.

"...and who the Hell are you?!"

Seriously...that was by far the most entertaining episode of the entire season....

Too bad its pretty obvious that the smoke monster can now spawn and control things on the island...i.e.: the spiders...

Sawyer was hilarious

Wow....that sucks....that's my wife's worst fear...thanks ABC, now she's scared to go to bed...lol.

Dude......

Wow....that sucks....that's my wife's worst fear...thanks ABC, now she's scared to go to bed...lol.

you think they're dead?? (didn't watch the preview even though it didn't appear to be another non-Other episode next week)

Seriously...that was by far the most entertaining episode of the entire season....

Too bad its pretty obvious that the smoke monster can now spawn and control things on the island...i.e.: the spiders...

Sawyer was hilarious


Umm...the high school teacher told nikki that the medusa spider has an incredibly potent pheromone that male medusa spiders can smell from a mile away...that was no monster, just nature doing what it does best....getting bugs to get their jiggy on.

Dude......

Jabroni

that was awesome....

Too bad its pretty obvious that the smoke monster can now spawn and control things on the island...i.e.: the spiders...
Huh?

The spider thing was explained earlier - the female scent attracted a whole lot of males to her....

Too bad its pretty obvious that the smoke monster can now spawn and control things on the island...i.e.: the spiders...

I thought that was more along the lines of what Arnst said....that the female spider he had could attract every male spider on the island in seconds.

And lol I guess the writers heard about everyone hating these two and decided to kill them off in the nastiest way possible.

Agree about Paolo not telling anyone about the plan to abduct Jack among countless other things....they really could've just left that part off as it didn't do anything except piss people off.

Umm...the high school teacher told nikki that the medusa spider has an incredibly potent pheromone that male medusa spiders can smell from a mile away...that was no monster, just nature doing what it does best....getting bugs to get their jiggy on.

turn up your speakers...you could plainly hear the noise the smoke monster makes before the spiders come out....and Arts was a junior-high teacher :D LOL

Umm...the high school teacher told nikki that the medusa spider has an incredibly potent pheromone that male medusa spiders can smell from a mile away...that was no monster, just nature doing what it does best....getting bugs to get their jiggy on.

Exactly. When i remembered that, I thought to myself "oh shi*!" she's screwed!

I don't know if I like them showing scenes from the first episode and just inserting Nikki like that. Is there any chance she was there and we just missed her before, if that's possible? Part of the good thing about Lost was that paying attention early on could pay off in small ways later. If they're going to re-shoot previous scenes to insert stuff in flashbacks, I'm going to be a little annoyed.


Didn't they clean the plane wreckage up last season or so (something about big waves in Hawaii)? Wouldn't it be hard to re-shoot these? Did the directors really think that far ahead?

Umm...the high school teacher told nikki that the medusa spider has an incredibly potent pheromone that male medusa spiders can smell from a mile away...that was no monster, just nature doing what it does best....getting bugs to get their jiggy on.

Yes Artz did say that...but there was definately the "sound of smokey" right before the spiders showed up...I thought we were going to see smokey too.

It was a good episode, but I still have to call BS on the whole idea of introducing Nikki and Paulo in the first place. The only thing they've contributed to the general story, outside of their own little mini conflict tonight, was to lead to that revelation about Sun. And that could have been done a different way without needing a new pair of characters. I really hope that when the creators said that Niiki and Paulo had an important role to play this season, that it wasn't just this.

It seems kind of unfair to the viewers to just act like someone's been here the whole time like that. Especially to go so far as to re-shoot scenes from the first episode to include them. If they at least made them tailies, it would have been more credible.

There's nothing like rewriting history in a show that prides itself on everything being thought out in adavance and rewarding astute viewers for watching so closely. I kind of hope that the way we left Nikki and Paulo tonight is the way that they stay.

turn up your speakers...you could plainly hear the noise the smoke monster makes before the spiders come out....and Arts was a junior-high teacher :D LOL

regardless, the junior high teacher (sorry, lol) already explained about the spider.

Didn't they clean the plane wreckage up last season or so (something about big waves in Hawaii)? Wouldn't it be hard to re-shoot these? Did the directors really think that far ahead?

From what I remember seeing in pictures between seasons, they had kept the plane wreckage in another location...not all of it but enough to re-stage scenes like that...

See all the old faces was great...So many dead people in that episode, it was amazing

talk about a garbage filler. Once they showed the spider ya knew what happened.

but how does she come back before paolo???

at least they out the way now. and Boone is the gay guy, woopdy doo...

regardless, the junior high teacher (sorry, lol) already explained about the spider.

But there has to be a coincidence between the noise and the spiders appearing...so when Hurley saying the Monster killed the, he wasn't far from the truth ;)

From what I remember seeing in pictures between seasons, they had kept the plane wreckage in another location...not all of it but enough to re-stage scenes like that...

See all the old faces was great...So many dead people in that episode, it was amazing

Can someone confirm one way or the other? It would give some insight on the directors story about how everything is planned from the beginning.

I remember someone posting here from Hawaii?

But there has to be a coincidence between the noise and the spiders appearing...so when Hurley saying the Monster killed the, he wasn't far from the truth ;)

Furthermore, Vincent, the other manifestation of the Monster tried to warn the Losties that they were about bury the still-alive people ;)

The constant 'who the hell are you' references makes you think that maybe the inserting nikki into the opening sequences and key moments in the series is intentional and maybe she wasn't really there in the beginning. We are dealing with timeline shifting etc. wih Desmond. You'd think Sawyer would at least recognize Nikki as a survivor even if he didn't know her name exactly. Maybe since Sawyer was on the other side of the island for some reason he was unaffected? no idea why... It just seems really odd that they are playing up that Sawyer has no idea who Nikki is, I know she is a minor character, but they brought it up like 14 times in the episode.

OK, obviously this was a back story / storyline the writers came up with to kill time this season, but I really liked it. It wrapped up well and the creepy twist in the end was great.

So, here is the question, were we manipulated into not liking these two from the start so that the payoff of them being killed off would even be that much better? I'm guessing this story line was planned from the start when they went to the Pearl, so we can't say they killed them off just because we didn't like them.

I also liked the way that they used it to add a little bit of back story related to the larger story arch such as showing us that Ben was watching them from the Pearl hatch before getting in there as Henry Gail. We also learned how the yellow plane got moved to hide the Perl hatch.

Can someone confirm one way or the other? It would give some insight on the directors story about how everything is planned from the beginning.

I remember someone posting here from Hawaii?

You can rest assured that those scenes were not shot during Season 1...as Nikki and Paolo were not even cast yet...they used CG and old parts of the wreckage to re-create the scene for this episode...

but how does she come back before paolo???
Perhaps the male venom isn't as strong as the female's. Very often in nature, the females among various species tend to be more lethal.

But there has to be a coincidence between the noise and the spiders appearing...so when Hurley saying the Monster killed the, he wasn't far from the truth ;)

I re-watched it (thanks DVR :)) And, yes...I can hear something...but it sounds more like just bugs then the ol' smokester

I was a bit pissed that I missed the first 20 minutes tonight. Until I realized what it was about ... then I fast forwarded through most of it.

Good points: looks like Lindelof and Cuse got the message about Nikki and Paulo. So no more from them.

Bad points: Lindelof and Cuse thought it would satisfy the viewers to get rid of them in a horrible way. Possibly. But not by devoting an entire episode to it! They should have just let them sink back into the land of extras.

What a waste of 45 minutes. Especially when the show was just starting to pick up speed again. Even in death Nikki and Paulo are a pain in the ass.

the sound is typical smokey, goes from left to right

I also liked the way that they used it to add a little bit of back story related to the larger story arch such as showing us that Ben was watching them from the Pearl hatch before getting in there as Henry Gail. We also learned how the yellow plane got moved to hide the Perl hatch.

You mean...when it fell with boone in it?

I thought it was great. It was like "CSI:Mysterious Island That God Doesn't Even See".

I re-watched it (thanks DVR :)) And, yes...I can hear something...but it sounds more like just bugs then the ol' smokester

I had the 5.1 track pumped up...it was MOST definitely the noise the Monster makes...everyone on the Lost boards is confirming it...

They stated back in season one that characters from the background were going to come forward and have roles in later seasons. So in that respect I'd say this was planned from the beginning - maybe not the exact storyline, but definitely the idea behind it.

It was a pretty good episode, very clever in a lot of ways, but kind of annoying for two reasons: as someone pointed out, their overall arc contributed very little to the story. Maybe TPTB are trying to illustrate some sense of cosmic justice/judgement on the Island? We pretty much already got that from Eko's arc. Even worse, this throwaway episode (though a decent one) breaks up the momentum that we've finally started building a few weeks ago, that we've been waiting for for soooooo long. It looks like next week could wind up centering around Kate and Juliet trekking through the jungle. If they avoid dealing with the Locke/Ben storyline they are really going to piss me off.

Oh well, RIP Nikki, you were pretty damn hot!

I liked Sawyers "Forensic Hatch" that was funny

and yeah the plane wasnt put there to cover it the plane fell when Boone was in it.

LOST forum isnt exactly a good place for info. WAY too many wack jobs there :D

why does everyone think they're dead? I mean...as Locke said, "Nothing stays buried on this island forever"

:D

When her eyes popped open at the end....priceless.

I was sort of expecting a "Carrie" moment with a hand coming up through the ground, but they were buried rather deep.

Apparently diamonds aren't a girl's best friend.

Too bad Hurley couldn't push replay to correctly hear "para-lyzed" instead of "Paulo lies"!

lame filler episode!

lame filler episode!

Go read the spoiler websites if you want to know what happens on the season finale...that filler was still better than all the other TV I've seen this week

Even though story advancement was minimal, I thought it was fun to watch, especially with the flashbacks counting down towards the present - although by the last one, I knew the spiders were going to get them.

Also, did anyone else think those diamonds looked like 8 million?

They stated back in season one that characters from the background were going to come forward and have roles in later seasons. So in that respect I'd say this was planned from the beginning - maybe not the exact storyline, but definitely the idea behind it.

That would be a character like Rose. Nikki and Paulo were never characters from the background apart from tonight. They were introduced/wedged in primarily to provide new characters for flashbacks because according to the producers, viewers said they were getting tired of the same old stories.

Lindelof and Cuse introduced them in such a poor way that they obviously couldn't get past the backlash to make good use of them.

You mean...when it fell with boone in it?
Well, Ben says something to Juliette about having the plane moved to cover the hatch. (this was after it fell, because the losties were in the Swan)



Personally I'm not that upset by them sort of placing the later characters into the early situations. We know there are a lot more people from the plane than the core characters. We see them milling around. I guess you have to assume they were 'behind the camera" in those early scenes and that is why we didn't see them the first time.

I got a bit frustrated by some of the earlier filler shows in the season that only seem to add to what we already knew, such as the Hurley back story, but I liked this one. So it added nothing to the overall story, but I thought it was an entertaining side story and the way it drew from recent shows, such as Palo coming out of the bathroom, it sort of worked for me.

I also liked the way we got to see some long lost (dead) faces from the past. it worked for me, even if it put a slight brake on the momentum of the Loche / Dad / Jack Submarine storyline.

Also, did anyone else think those diamonds looked like 8 million?
It depends on the quality. The value could range anywhere from as low as 4 to 8 or even up to as much as 15 to 16 million...

I really wish they wouldn't show the Guest Star credits until the end of the show....it totally spoils the hell out of the episode when you see them....

Excellent episode! A nice break from the normal routine. Definitely enjoyed it.

That would be a character like Rose. Nikki and Paulo were never characters from the background apart from tonight. They were introduced/wedged in primarily to provide new characters for flashbacks because according to the producers, viewers said they were getting tired of the same old stories.

Lindelof and Cuse introduced them in such a poor way that they obviously couldn't get past the backlash to make good use of them.

They said back then that characters we were yet to meet that were in the crash would be introduced. They mentioned with 40 odd survivors and only 10 or so featured in season one they could bring new characters in at any point. Rose was in the very first episode so I don't think they meant her.

I won't disagree that they may have introduced these guys poorly.

I won't disagree that they may have introduced these guys poorly.

Is it possible that they were introduced in such a way that we would be a bit annoyed with them. They managed to introduce Arnst in such a way that no one found him annoying. They also brought in the tail section people in such a way that we didn't find them annoying, but these two were. I think it was a bit on purpose.

I can't remember - were they introduced on the show where they go to the perl? If so, then I would say they that the writers had this story line in mind from the time they were introduced. My only reason for that theory is Palo coming out of the bathroom in that show from early in the season. I could be wrong and the writers worked that into the later story line, but I don't think so.

I'm in the eastern time zone tonight, so it is a bit exciting to be able to follow the posts just after the show. Living in the mountain time zone, I usually don't get to get on the message board until 2 hours of posts have already gone by.

Well, Ben says something to Juliette about having the plane moved to cover the hatch. (this was after it fell, because the losties were in the Swan)


which doesn't really make much sense either. Since Paulo uncovered the hatch tonight, there was no way Boone could not have seen it when he scaled Mount Airplane in season one.

Clever episode. Laughed out loud when they were shoveling sand over the "alive" bodies. Campy, and quite a departure from the usual "serious" episodes.

which doesn't really make much sense either. Since Paulo uncovered the hatch tonight, there was no way Boone could not have seen it when he scaled Mount Airplane in season one.

Well, Pablo and Nikki first found the hatch before Boon climbed the tree, but I guess they, or the others could have re-covered it up before Boon climbed the tree.

When Pablo was in the hatch again to hide the diamonds and he overheard Ben and Juliette, that was after the plane had fallen, but before Loche and echo discovered it. So, it is possible that Ben said the plane needed to be moved to hide the hatch. I'm away from my TiVo tonight, so I can't verify that.

Also, perhaps Boone did see it - but then he fell with a plane out of a tree, so ...

Since both actors have been announced as regulars on new fall series, it was only a matter of time until Nikki and Paolo died. Glad it's out of the way.

When Ben walked into the Pearl if you listen closely he is talking about how Tom was already here, and how they need to cover it up with the plane. I think they were being careful to keep it secret.

talk about a garbage filler. Once they showed the spider ya knew what happened.

but how does she come back before paolo???

at least they out the way now. and Boone is the gay guy, woopdy doo...

I liked the episode a lot. Interesting back-story, and good action on the island. They've had a run of good episodes in a row now since the Hurley backstory. I hope they keep it going. Unlike many, I had no problems w/ Nikki or Paulo at all. I had the opposite reaction to their deaths, and don't like that they kill off all the eye-candy :cool:

As far as Nikki coming back "first"... why not? They each were poisoned presumably about 8 hours prior within seconds of each other. Did you think that each person's metabolism is exactly the same, and there exists a perfect 8 hour timer for each to wake up?

I really wish they wouldn't show the Guest Star credits until the end of the show....it totally spoils the hell out of the episode when you see them....

Agreed... at least Boone and Shannon turned up pretty quickly, but a worse example was seeing John Terry's name in the recent episode where it was revealed that Claire was Jack's sister.

I thought this episode was pretty fun, it had the feel of some anthology shows ala Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, etc. But yeah, Nikki and Paulo were ultimately wasted characters, which is a lot easier to take for them than it was for Eko, Ana Lucia and Libby.

You could definitley hear the monster when the spiders came swarming, but Artz had offered another explanation, so who knows if there was anything to that.

I never appreciated how hot Nikki is til this episode either... oh well.

I never appreciated how hot Nikki is til this episode either... oh well

I KNOW.

she had a very big Ashley Scott vibe (the babe from Birds of Prey)

You'd think Sawyer would at least recognize Nikki as a survivor even if he didn't know her name exactly. Maybe since Sawyer was on the other side of the island for some reason he was unaffected? no idea why... It just seems really odd that they are playing up that Sawyer has no idea who Nikki is, I know she is a minor character, but they brought it up like 14 times in the episode.

With a body like that, I would find it hard to believe that any male wouldn't have noticed her before. She looked phenominal when she came up to Arzt in that red bikini top.

Umm... that was... very un-fantastic.

Next week: an episode with Hurley and the VW bus - and when they got back.... there was a disembodied arm with a hook for a hand hanging from the door handle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Worst episode of the series, by far. What a total ripoff indulgent waste of time.

Umm... that was... very un-fantastic.

Next week: an episode with Hurley and the VW bus - and when they got back.... there was a disembodied arm with a hook for a hand hanging from the door handle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Worst episode of the series, by far. What a total ripoff indulgent waste of time.
My how tastes differ! Lighten up and have some fun, dude, it's just a tv show. I'm with those who think this was the best episode of the season so far - or at least the most fun and entertaining one.

I also don't understand why everyone seems to dislike Nikki and Paolo so much. Geez, they did nothing but hang in the background, did nothing to offend. I certainly didn't hate them, and kudos to the writers for thinking ahead and tweaking the Losties geeks in such a clever way.

Excellent!

I think the ones that didn't like the Hurley episode or this latest one are the ones who expect answers all the time. I admit, I would love to get a lot more answers than they are giving, but I've come to accept that it's not gonna happen in a timely manner.

Yeah, the Hurley episode and tonight's were just filler, but I thought they were fun. I mean, come on, that was classic when Nikki said to that guy "the guest star always gets killed off" or Sawyer saying "who the hell is Nikki" and "who the hell is Paulo?"

And how could you not appreciate that ending? Talk about creepy and unexpected.

You could definitley hear the monster when the spiders came swarming, but Artz had offered another explanation, so who knows if there was anything to that.

Do you think the monster (in some way) caused the spiders to run back to Nikki? Since it is basically the island's conscience? Judged Eko, Nikki, Pallo, Locke on a few occasions... who else?

Locke had only been threatened by the monster when he doubted the island. Otherwise it checks him out and decides Locke is a good man and passes on.

Fun stuff, I hope the new fuggers don't dig themselves back up.

I hate every one of these "filler" shows. What's the point, why do we need a break from the main story which is the reason I tune in each week. I have a bad feeling that these are going to become more and more common so that the producers can drag the series out another 2 seasons. I don't have an unlimited amount of time to watch TV so don't waste my time on shows that do not move the series along, otherwise I'll move along to something else. This is just my opinion but, it is not what I tune in to see and it's becoming way to common for the series. I'm beginning to understand why the ratings have drop some, people are just getting tired of the show going no where and it is close to pushing me away (my wife already stopped watching it because it became "boring" to her).

Thought it was great to get away from the usuaul story arc, and that producers felt they don't have to answer questions every episode. They could have a one episode story.
And what a Creepy ending.
When Paulo first went into the WC in the Hatch to hide the jewels, I was totally impressed, remembering the comments posted when the epsiode of the expedition to the hatch aired, and the first thing Paulo did was hit the head.
There was a reason...

I was a bit pissed that I missed the first 20 minutes tonight. Until I realized what it was about ... then I fast forwarded through most of it.

Good points: looks like Lindelof and Cuse got the message about Nikki and Paulo. So no more from them.

Bad points: Lindelof and Cuse thought it would satisfy the viewers to get rid of them in a horrible way. Possibly. But not by devoting an entire episode to it! They should have just let them sink back into the land of extras.

What a waste of 45 minutes. Especially when the show was just starting to pick up speed again. Even in death Nikki and Paulo are a pain in the ass.
I agree, I didn't really see any point to this episode at all, it was largely a waste of time, as if the writers simply can't think of anything else to have the beach characters do, just lazily written filler.

My how tastes differ! Lighten up and have some fun, dude, it's just a tv show. I'm with those who think this was the best episode of the season so far - or at least the most fun and entertaining one.


If anyone thinks this is the best episode of Lost this season the standards have fallen a long way. 45 minutes devoted to characters that have little importance, will not return, and in the closing stages of the season is just massive waste.

At least with the Hurley episode it brought attention back to the underused cast regulars and it got us over the mid-season hump. This episode was more like a limp attempt at "Alfred Hitchcock presents .." than an episode of Lost.

I was thinking the same thing, this could have easily been a one-off episode of the Twilight Zone.

With a body like that, I would find it hard to believe that any male wouldn't have noticed her before. She looked phenominal when she came up to Arzt in that red bikini top.


I wonder if the red bikini top was a tribute to being a "red shirt"? :D

To answer "Do you think the monster (in some way) caused the spiders to run back to Nikki? Since it is basically the island's conscience? Judged Eko, Nikki, Pallo, Locke on a few occasions... who else"

I thought the female spider had a strong pheromone that attracted the male spiders - per Dr. Artz :confused:

Lost is a series about regular people caught in extraordinary circumstances. Its strength lies in how they will respond when confronted with those circumstances, be they smoke monsters, strange hatches or other island inhabitants with an unspecified agenda. It is a character study with themes of crime, punishment and redemption.

As such, I don't view any episode as "filler". Of course there are mysteries to be solved, and layers of an onion to be exposed, but that isn't my primary reason for watching. From several posts, though, apparently just solving what the island is "about" (and as quickly as possible) is what some people are looking for. I suspect they will be consistently disappointed. This may not be the series for them.

It only took 2 1/2 seasons to reveal how John Locke wound up in a wheel chair... at that pace... we'll learn about the true nature of the smoke monster... probably never. :D

Of course, the Producers will find out their show has been cancelled some day and then all of the loose ends will be wrapped up in one 90 minute series finale. ;)

I agree, I didn't really see any point to this episode at all, it was largely a waste of time, as if the writers simply can't think of anything else to have the beach characters do, just lazily written filler.
Yeah. Just when I thought the show was starting to dig itself out of it's own grave (no pun intended), it tosses out an episode like this. What's the expression - 'one step forward and two steps back'.

If part of the intent behind this was to let Charlie cleanse his soul when faced with a burial scene before his prophesized death, and the ripples that may have on Soon and Sawyer's relationship, then there was probably a better way to achieve that goal.

IMO, the only saving grace was the banter of Hurley and Sawyer, who have become the Laurel & Hardy of episodic serials.

I was thinking the same thing, this could have easily been a one-off episode of the Twilight Zone.
And not a particularly good one, either. ;)

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I dunno...I really liked this episode. Reminded me a bit of Go, Run Lola Run, The Simpsons Trilogy of Error episode, etc. You know, where you get to see events that happened before, but from a different perspective. Plus seeing all the old/dead people make a return was great. I had forgotten how annoying Shannon was.

I really enjoyed it, although the Hitchcockian ending kindof left me a bit disappointed (maybe because you could see it coming from a mile away), but it was still entertaining nonetheless.

I dunno...I really liked this episode. Reminded me a bit of Go, Run Lola Run, The Simpsons Trilogy of Error episode, etc. You know, where you get to see events that happened before, but from a different perspective.
Actually, I really liked both Run Lola Run and Go a great deal. The distinction I would make is that the characters were interesting and compelling in both, instead of the one-note cliche that Nikki and Paolo's characters reflected, compounded by a transparent 'twist' finale.

______________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I thought the episode was pretty good to start, since i thought both Nikki and Paolo were dead. Then there were some cool flashbacks that gave a bit more insight to what has gone on around the island. Then the twist ending was fantastic.

Overall, I thought it sucked that we moved away from Locke's story, but this was a fine episode and a great way to get rid of two crappy characters.

Did anyone notice that the timeline seemed to be a little off? Paulo appears to be trying to hide the diamonds in a hole on the beach right after he finds them in the lake. Locke tells him to hide them inland and he goes to the pearl and puts them in toilet. He then hears the Ben/Juliette conversation about jack and michael. I didn't think that the losties were even into the swan station at that point in time. Unless he waited several days to hide the diamonds.

Laughed out loud when they were shoveling sand over the "alive" bodies.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook

Although it was entertaining in a short term sense, it reminded me of one of those "best of" type shows from sitcoms & The Simpsons and such. 100% filler.....tasty, but non filling. All dead people show, cool!

Lost is a series about regular people caught in extraordinary circumstances. Its strength lies in how they will respond when confronted with those circumstances, be they smoke monsters, strange hatches or other island inhabitants with an unspecified agenda. It is a character study with themes of crime, punishment and redemption.

As such, I don't view any episode as "filler". Of course there are mysteries to be solved, and layers of an onion to be exposed, but that isn't my primary reason for watching. From several posts, though, apparently just solving what the island is "about" (and as quickly as possible) is what some people are looking for. I suspect they will be consistently disappointed. This may not be the series for them.

Perfectly stated! I agree completely. Well put.

Anyone who didn't find that episode entertaining takes this show way too seriously. I like the winks at the viewers: Nikki's comment about guest stars getting killed off; Sawyer constantly asking "Who the hell is Nikki?"; Hurley and Charlie arguing about whether or not it was the smoke monster, etc. Lots of great cult shows have goofy episodes like this from time to time (X-Files and Buffy immediately come to mind).

In earlier appearances by Paulo and Nikki, they just seemed like bad actors. Now it seems that the actors weren't doing a poor job, it was that their characters were up to something fishy. That is pretty clever, and it should make Nikki and Paulo much less annoying if I ever bother to re-watch earlier episodes from the season.

And don't the creators have most of the season written out (and maybe filmed) before it airs? So I don't think the writers killed Paulo and Nikki off to appease the masses (although I'd believe that they wrote them in such a way that they expected people to cheer a bit at their deaths...if they are really dead, that is).

So the "big story" wasn't advanced much, big deal. They can't put huge bombshells in every episode. I thought we did learn one important fact:We now know the ONLY reason why the Others wanted Kate & Sawyer was to get them to hook up and make Jack jealous. It makes me wonder if Danny had any real intention of killing Sawyer before they escaped.

I also enjoyed this episode. One part that hasn't been mentioned yet is how we saw Ethan there pretty quick trying to be Mr. nice guy. Man that guy was creepy.

Wow. Wasn't expecting to see Artz, Shannon and Boone. I'm pretty sure the crash scene was partially recreated for Nikki's sake :rolleyes:. Did Smokey get her and Paulo?

I was cracking up at all the dead people...this show sure burns through them!

Loved her comment about what happens to guest stars.

- Tom

LOL prophetic huh?

It was a good episode, but I still have to call BS on the whole idea of introducing Nikki and Paulo in the first place. The only thing they've contributed to the general story, outside of their own little mini conflict tonight, was to lead to that revelation about Sun. And that could have been done a different way without needing a new pair of characters. I really hope that when the creators said that Niiki and Paulo had an important role to play this season, that it wasn't just this.

It seems kind of unfair to the viewers to just act like someone's been here the whole time like that. Especially to go so far as to re-shoot scenes from the first episode to include them. If they at least made them tailies, it would have been more credible.

There's nothing like rewriting history in a show that prides itself on everything being thought out in adavance and rewarding astute viewers for watching so closely. I kind of hope that the way we left Nikki and Paulo tonight is the way that they stay.

The producers went on record very early on and said they were going to do exactly what they did, bring someone from the background forward to bring new stories to the fore.

The only problem I have with it is how they did it, but inserting them directly into the story without any setup, as though they had been around all along.

The other problem I have with it is that the characters ultimately were a one note creepy ending and didn't further the story one iota...so wasted screen time in my opinion.

HOWEVER, I really enjoyed this ep, despite my above objections. Was glad to seem them get their just desserts.

Oh well, RIP Nikki, you were pretty damn hot!


Dude, if they had shown that flashback (stripper scene) the FIRST EPISODE they introduced them , we'd be screaming for them to keep her around. Where was she hiding that body? Mask Voice: "SMOKING!!!!!"

I enjoyed the episode although I think my wife could have done without the "eye-opening" ending. I've always enjoyed the shows where you see the characters interact, especially Hurley and Sawyer. It was great when Hurley said to Desmond after not getting anything from his "seeing" ability; "Your super power is pretty lame, man" - or something like that. Of course Desmond then told him that he actually witnessed the exchange between Nikki and Sawyer.....

I have mixed opinions about this episode. I really enjoyed it as fun, goofy filler--but I'm annoyed we got a "filler" episode after several GREAT episodes in a row--sort of lets the air out of the suspense balloon.

My biggest problem. After about 2 weeks on the island I see two scenarios about the diamonds.

1--They will never be rescued and the diamonds are worthless shiny rocks.

OR

2--They are eventually rescued and the resulting book/movie/celebrity makes all the survivors pretty wealthy and the lawsuit against Oceanic Air makes $4,000,000 look like petty cash.

(Unless the diamonds might have some industrial uses--maybe they could barter with Ben. He might need them in his secret underground lair--new gears for the hamster wheels?)

The producers went on record very early on and said they were going to do exactly what they did, bring someone from the background forward to bring new stories to the fore.

The only problem I have with it is how they did it, but inserting them directly into the story without any setup, as though they had been around all along.

The other problem I have with it is that the characters ultimately were a one note creepy ending and didn't further the story one iota...so wasted screen time in my opinion.

HOWEVER, I really enjoyed this ep, despite my above objections. Was glad to seem them get their just desserts.
I guess that's the problem I have with it, are we going to get flashbacks/deaths/whatever for the other 25-30 characters that we haven't met yet, the filler group, the rest of the passengers? IMO, there was nothing compelling, or interesting about these 2, nothing invested in them, we didn't know enough about them to care one way or the other what happened to them. At the end of the episode I had a feeling of "so what, they're dead", a "who cares" attitude.

If I've missed something important, something integral to the overall storyline, with these 2 characters, please, someone fill me in. I think after almost 3 years we get the idea that "bad" people are likely to see bad ends, I hope we don't have to sit through the deaths of the rest of the unknown passengers.

Next week looks like the story picks up again, and these 2 will probably never even be thought about ever again. This episode is the sort of thing you might find in the extras section of a DVD release, possibly interesting, but a no real value.

Man, people really need to become more laid back.

The episode was FUN. Who cares if it didn't "progress the storyline". Its value was being fun.

Personally, I thought many of the worst episodes this season were the ones that actually progressed the story arc. It's the one-off episodes that have really been the most interesting.

I predict this episode will be one that most people will remember above a lot of others. Heck, look how much discussion we've had on it already.

Obviously they couldn't, and wouldn't, bring all the plane wreckage back to the beach in Hawaii just to shoot a few new scenes with Nikki and Paulo. And they had to insert Shannon, Boone, Artz, and Ethan in there as well. It sure was great CGI work though. Seamless. They probably used additional footage filmed originally but cut out of the original broadcast for background, then digitally inserted the characters.

Guess they must have had a great cast reunion party shooting that ep though! Filler thought it was, I enjoyed it. But then I enjoy them all, which makes me an anomaly around here sometimes.

Back to the previous episode for a moment...... Locke may indeed have been in the Navy for a stint - hence his knowledge of submarines - but there has been no indication that he had any military history other than his knowledge of survival skills (which he wouldn't have picked up at a pot grower's commune). In his previous flashbacks, he was always shown to be sort of meek, needy, and gullible. There's sort of a dichotomy there... but it does leave room for several more flashbacks!

I was thinking the same thing, this could have easily been a one-off episode of the Twilight Zone.
More like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Crypt40.jpg

Does anyone think that the "others" are in a time shifted warp thing like Desmond and actually saw their deaths at the hands of the plane crash people.

Maybe that's where the whole "You're not good line" comes in? So each of the plane crash people that haven't been taken by the "others" is responsible for one of the "others" deaths in the future? We've already seen Sawyer and John kill some of the "others". Not sure about the rest of the people on the beach yet.

I found this episode completely entertaining and well done. Nice set up with Arntz telling about the spider's venom and pheremones, to a hot Nikki nonetheless. And they gave clues about the paralysis by cuting to the open eyed bodies time and again and by having superdog Vincent uncover the undead.

I had wished for the 2 useless characters to be dead and my thoughts right near the end were, "Damn! They're just paralyzed? Now these losers will recover from paralysis and we'll be stuck with them!" Wrong.

Seeing Ethan again reminded me what a big scary dude he was. No wonder he was kicking the crap outa Jack in that fight.

Seeing Ethan again reminded me what a big scary dude he was. No wonder he was kicking the crap outa Jack in that fight.

I think Ethan is stuck in a time loop as well....he's the only one that seems to AGE (and gain weight) the further back he goes :-)

You people suck. :mad:

This was a terrific episode. I never would have imagined that two characters I previously thought were just a nuisance could have such a compelling storyline. They were con artists on a level that makes Sawyer look like an amateur. The way the producers have obviously been planning this out all season, layering in all these little appearances by the characters and then having them all tie together and pay off this week was fantastic, and really restored my faith that the show really is plotted out in detail far in advance.

I loved this episode. Anyone who didn't, I honestly think you should stop watching the show and stop posting in this thread, because you're never going to be satsified by anything about the show ever again, and you're basically just wasting our time here.

Did anyone notice that the timeline seemed to be a little off? Paulo appears to be trying to hide the diamonds in a hole on the beach right after he finds them in the lake. Locke tells him to hide them inland and he goes to the pearl and puts them in toilet. He then hears the Ben/Juliette conversation about jack and michael. I didn't think that the losties were even into the swan station at that point in time. Unless he waited several days to hide the diamonds.

The losties did not know about the Swan when Paulo hid the diamonds in there. They found the plane and hatch first, before Locke and Ecko had found it. It shows a lost opportunity that Paulo had to save the lives of Ana-Lucia and Libby and to keep Jack out of harm.

I only want one thing when I watch any tv show--to be entertained.

Last night's episode entertained me immensely.

I thought it was clever, funny, compelling, and did actually answer a couple of questions--like did the others know about the pearl? Apparently yes, and they used it to spy on Jack.

I found it amusing that they stumbled across almost everything it took everyone forever to figure out, and the fact that they were just so completely obsessed with their diamonds that they didn't care about anything or anyone else on the island was great!

Nikki became quite the expert on Medusa spiders, didn't she? I don't remember Arzt telling her how long a bite can cause paralysis, but I guess we have to assume that he told her offscreen.

Other story lines progressed. I though Charlie did the right thing by confessing to Sun, and now that completely changes their interactions together. Same with Sawyer. But Charlie's actions showed some redemption (which I find to be particularly powerful).

Oh, and Nikki is hot! And any episode with Lando ranks up with the best!

I never would have imagined that two characters I previously thought were just a nuisance could have such a compelling storyline.

I have long railed against those who complain about anything that does not advance the "main plot," espousing the idea that it was nice to have well fleshed out characters to learn, care about etc. And yet, I thought, for the first time, that last night's episode was a complete waste of time. These were characters we knew nothing about, learned very little about their backgrounds, and in no way were made to care about. I don't see what was compelling about them, or their storyline, at all (it was obvious, what, 20 minutes in they were going to be paralyzed by the spiders). They, and their storyline, was a complete waste of time and energy.

They only enjoyment to be gleaned from last night's episode was glimpses of characters we used to (Boone, Shannon) and still (Hurley, Sawyer, Sun) care about. But, since the useless characters and story of Nicki and Paulo took so much time, we were left with about 45 seconds of enjoyable screen time. Mere scraps.

I hated it, and I don't really mind the idea of bringing former redshirts to the forefront and telling us about them. But, please, do something with them to make us care.

You people suck. :mad:


Just what exactly are you getting at? Don't beat around the bush, just say it! :)

Corvette=the worst stripper name ever.

I hate it when shows do time travel episodes or flashbacks and insert characters into them when obviously they were not there. The only time i have seen this done that wasnt annoying was with the web series Red Vs Blue, mainly because they made fun of it so much.


With that being said, I did enjoy the episode once it started to get going.

This was a terrific episode.
Couldn't agree more. I was riveted. I don't judge the show based on how much "progress" it makes each week or which characters we learn more about. It's clear they had a plan for these two "forgettable" characters.

And who can argue with the ending? Buried alive ... boy did they get what was coming to them.

I hated it, and I don't really mind the idea of bringing former redshirts to the forefront and telling us about them. But, please, do something with them to make us care.

Me, I cared to see them killed. Horribly. Loved it.

...snip
Seeing Ethan again reminded me what a big scary dude he was. No wonder he was kicking the crap outa Jack in that fight.
I love how he was rocking the Wisconsin shirt...go bucky...I wonder if it was an homage by one of the writers?

I have long railed against those who complain about anything that does not advance the "main plot," espousing the idea that it was nice to have well fleshed out characters to learn, care about etc. And yet, I thought, for the first time, that last night's episode was a complete waste of time. These were characters we knew nothing about, learned very little about their backgrounds, and in no way were made to care about. I don't see what was compelling about them, or their storyline, at all (it was obvious, what, 20 minutes in they were going to be paralyzed by the spiders). They, and their storyline, was a complete waste of time and energy.

Yeah, but did you see Nicki? She was hot.

;)

Mercedes=the worst stripper name ever.

I hate it when shows do time travel episodes or flashbacks and insert characters into them when obviously they were not there. The only time i have seen this done that wasnt annoying was with the web series Red Vs Blue, mainly because they made fun of it so much.


From a technical perspective, of course they weren't "filmed" in some of those scenes, but they only usually focussed on a couple of people. At the time, the viewed didn't know Nikki and Paulo so it makes complete sense that they weren't "shown" in the earlier scenes. I can "make believe" that they really were there, just not seen on camera. I thought the use of the flashbacks was very effective, and actually grounded them a little more in the cast, as opposed to the way they just dumped them into the foreground way back when they introduced them.

Do you think the monster (in some way) caused the spiders to run back to Nikki? Since it is basically the island's conscience? Judged Eko, Nikki, Pallo, Locke on a few occasions... who else?


I am sure that I heard the smoke monster sound a moment before the other spiders appeared. Anyone else? However, it was stated by the teacher that the pheromones would draw the other spiders.

I am sure that I heard the smoke monster sound a moment before the other spiders appeared. Anyone else? However, it was stated by the teacher that the pheromones would draw the other spiders.

I heard it too. Maybe the spiders were a manifestation of Smokey like Eko's brother was for Eko

The noise when the spiders arrived had to be from something else, because honestly, you cant hear a spider.... Maybe you'd hear a noise if there were millions of them approaching, or if they were the size of the Harry Potter spiders... but c'mon... 5 spiders (that we see on camera) show up and you're thinking they were making all that rustling and ticking noises? If the smoke monster didn't send the spiders directly, it was around at least, watching them.

You all should be glad you can at least voice an opinion on the episode one way or another. Here in southern Colorado, we "lost" half the episode to local and live weather broadcasts (tornado warnings for VERY unpopulated rural areas). Not just a scroll, actual in studio coverage, I could not get a feel for the episode whatsoever...

Thanks KRDO.

You people suck. :mad:

This was a terrific episode. I never would have imagined that two characters I previously thought were just a nuisance could have such a compelling storyline. They were con artists on a level that makes Sawyer look like an amateur. The way the producers have obviously been planning this out all season, layering in all these little appearances by the characters and then having them all tie together and pay off this week was fantastic, and really restored my faith that the show really is plotted out in detail far in advance.

I loved this episode. Anyone who didn't, I honestly think you should stop watching the show and stop posting in this thread, because you're never going to be satsified by anything about the show ever again, and you're basically just wasting our time here.

I agree very much. The people that come in here every week and explain to all of us simpletons how the episode was so predictable, how (insert here) was a waste and did nothing to advance the story or plot, and go on about how the show is a waste of time or threaten that they will soon stop watching really gets old.

These people have every right to come here to vent or gripe about a show they have invested several hours in, but I still don't want to hear it. When I get tired of the show or have (insert sarcasm) "artistic differences" with the show, I will stop watching and won't come in here to tell everyone they are wasting their time.

I rarely post here anymore, but I follow the thread and haven't missed a single post. I come here because there are intelligent people here that reference details and connections that I may have missed. This and the conjecture is the strength of the thread. No matter the episode lately there has been somebody here griping about how lousy it was (usually the same couple of people). You have a right to be here (which is unfortunate), but I feel like most of the folks that are on this thread would prefer you just keep it to yourself. Having a beef with a particular episode or how a plot point was handled is understandable, but weekly tearing down of the show gets old.

Go start another Lost thread (like the spoiler thread) that is for constant complaining. The rest of us that actually enjoy the show for what it is won't miss you. We'll continue to discuss (and criticize sometimes) the show we ENJOY!


Sorry for the rant. Love the thread and really appreciate almost everyone here. You make the show more fun to watch! ;)

I loved this episode. Anyone who didn't, I honestly think you should stop watching the show and stop posting in this thread, because you're never going to be satsified by anything about the show ever again, and you're basically just wasting our time here.

Well, that's not going to happen. And by being a constant sycophant for something is weak and unproductive. If you don't like an opinion argue against it rather than putting your fingers in your ears and going na-na-na because not being able to look at something objectively is also a waste of an opinion.

The reason this episode existed at all was because viewers publicly voiced their opinion about how much they hated Nikki and Paulo. So you have the dissenting voice to thank for this one.

It's unfortunate for Lost that it followed in my opinion was one of the best hours of television I've seen all year. If you watched Lost last night and watched Friday Night Light's then the quality gap between between shows was immense.

You people suck. :mad:

This was a terrific episode. I never would have imagined that two characters I previously thought were just a nuisance could have such a compelling storyline. They were con artists on a level that makes Sawyer look like an amateur.
That was one of the problems I had with the episode. I don't think any other characters have been so remorseless in their crime. To me it seemed out of step with the theme of all the other backstories. The other characters are more often conflicted about the bad deeds they may have either done or caused.
The way the producers have obviously been planning this out all season, layering in all these little appearances by the characters and then having them all tie together and pay off this week was fantastic, and really restored my faith that the show really is plotted out in detail far in advance.
Again, I had just the opposite reaction. To me bringing Nikki and Paulo into those previous scenes seemed forced and artificial. Like it was done just to prove a point that they plot things out in advance.
I loved this episode. Anyone who didn't, I honestly think you should stop watching the show and stop posting in this thread, because you're never going to be satsified by anything about the show ever again, and you're basically just wasting our time here.
With this talented cast and crew, they could do a one hour version of The Aristocrats and it would be entertaining. They could do an American Idol parody where they put on a talent show and it would probably be real fun. That doesn't mean that this episode wasn't a bust in the overall series arc.

Or even scarier, they just proved they could easily move to a more self-contained one hour drama - CSI:Lost could run for years.

I was disappointed.

I liked the episode.

I still not understand why people hated Paolo and Nikki so much. That includes my wife, she hated them so much, she cheered when they "died" at the beginning.

Yes, it was a filler episode, but it was a really good filler episode.

I liked how they talked about the monster being a dinosaur. I remember in season 1 when people on the forums where talking about that. It was a really fun episode.

The losties did not know about the Swan when Paulo hid the diamonds in there. They found the plane and hatch first, before Locke and Ecko had found it. It shows a lost opportunity that Paulo had to save the lives of Ana-Lucia and Libby and to keep Jack out of harm.


What I meant by this was that when paulo went into the Pearl Hatch, the losties hadn't found either the swan or the pearl. Ben then comes in when paulo is in the bathroom, turns on the monitor and there is Jack on the screen in the Swan Hatch. The timeline is either off, they screwed up or he waited a while before going into the Pearl station.

The reason this episode existed at all was because viewers publicly voiced their opinion about how much they hated Nikki and Paulo. So you have the dissenting voice to thank for this one.


Is this true? Did the show creators acknowledge this or are you assuming that it MUST be true? :confused:

You all should be glad you can at least voice an opinion on the episode one way or another. Here in southern Colorado, we "lost" half the episode to local and live weather broadcasts (tornado warnings for VERY unpopulated rural areas). Not just a scroll, actual in studio coverage, I could not get a feel for the episode whatsoever...

Thanks KRDO.


Go to ABC.com and you can watch the episode free on your PC.
I went there just to re-watch the opening scenes of Nikki doing the job that life built her for

Is this true? Did the show creators acknowledge this or are you assuming that it MUST be true? :confused:

He's just speculating, like everyone else in this thread, be they pro or con. I'm pro - I liked the episode. Nikki has a nice smile (euphemism for another couple of attractive assets). ;)

Next week's episode: Jack and the gang get caught trying to tunnel out of the compound.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/171369~Hogan-s-Heroes-Posters.jpg

Yeah, the Hurley episode and tonight's were just filler, but I thought they were fun. I mean, come on, that was classic when Nikki said to that guy "the guest star always gets killed off" or Sawyer saying "who the hell is Nikki" and "who the hell is Paulo?"
I get concerned when a show starts getting self-referential. Lines like these make Lost seem like a TV show admitting that it's only a TV show. That's OK for most shows which are light entertainment but Lost wants to be taken seriously (or was that last season?).

Once the characters start bursting into songs, you know the mystery is over! :)

He's just speculating, like everyone else in this thread, be they pro or con. I'm pro - I liked the episode. Nikki has a nice smile (euphemism for another couple of attractive assets). ;)

I'm pro episode, con the characters if that makes any sense. Enjoyed the ep, didn't think the build up was necessary.

I love Nikki's smile too....both of them :-)

Man, ABC.com has the absolute worst pictures! Where can you find the really good pics (if you know what I mean) of Nikki in last night's episode?

I liked it. I wasn't happy at the beginning when I saw it was about Nikki and Paulo, but the writers made it a fun ride. Rosencranz and Guildenstern done Lost-style.

-Reagan

Well, that's not going to happen. And by being a constant sycophant for something is weak and unproductive. If you don't like an opinion argue against it rather than putting your fingers in your ears and going na-na-na because not being able to look at something objectively is also a waste of an opinion.

The reason this episode existed at all was because viewers publicly voiced their opinion about how much they hated Nikki and Paulo. So you have the dissenting voice to thank for this one.

It's unfortunate for Lost that it followed in my opinion was one of the best hours of television I've seen all year. If you watched Lost last night and watched Friday Night Light's then the quality gap between between shows was immense.
No, it's not going to happen, asking people to leave a thread because they have an opposing viewpoint would intellectually bankrupt the thread in my opinion. Having different views enriches the discussion, much more interesting than post after post reiterating the same point, cheerleading as it were.

I have made many favorable post about this show, and I have made unflattering posts as well, and I will will continue to post whatever is on my mind and how I feel about a particular point or episode.

Having everyone in agreement about something makes for a very dull playground.

Affording your fellow poster the courtesy and respect to post their viewpoint, pro or con, provides for some interesting and thoughtful discussion. Posting something like "I don't like it" or "It sucks", I agree, there's no value in that sort of post, but posts that support and give reasoning behind the viewpoint are every bit as interesting and important, and deserve the respect the "favorable" posts already have.

As your response was to Josh Z, I'll just say that I have conversed with him elsewhere in this forum and in most all cases, our likes and dislikes are very similar and I can't imagine that's he's advocating that opposing viewpoint posters just don't post here anymore. If he's talking about the one liner, "it sucks" type of post, then I agree, those posts are worthless.

I get concerned when a show starts getting self-referential. Lines like these make Lost seem like a TV show admitting that it's only a TV show. That's OK for most shows which are light entertainment but Lost wants to be taken seriously (or was that last season?).

Once the characters start bursting into songs, you know the mystery is over! :)
Indeed, a show like Boston Legal can pull that off magnificently, but a Lost needs to remain "in character" to maintain the aura, the feel, the overall experience.

So is it safe to say that the other only kidnapped Walt to force the deal with Michael to get him to bring back Jack, Sawyer and Kate?? and they didn't want him for the at all for the tests, ect. that they claimed they did on him?

So is it safe to say that the other only kidnapped Walt to force the deal with Michael to get him to bring back Jack, Sawyer and Kate?? and they didn't want him for the at all for the tests, ect. that they claimed they did on him?

Can't say I'd agree with that...they wanted Walt like they wanted all of the children. He's special :-)

I think after they realized they couldn't control Walt and it was better to let him go, they decided to use Michael to another end (getting Jack, Kate, and Sawyer).

So is it safe to say that the other only kidnapped Walt to force the deal with Michael to get him to bring back Jack, Sawyer and Kate?? and they didn't want him for the at all for the tests, ect. that they claimed they did on him?
I don't think so. I think they just felt they had the most bargaining room with Michael over anyone else.

Mercedes=the worst stripper name ever.

I thought it was Corvette? The pride of St. Paul. And her name is Nikki. Three Prince references right there.

It simply amazes me how this episode has polarized the viewers...how can some simply despise the episode, while others think it one of the best...

that alone tells me LOST is unlike most other television...

I am definitely in the "I Loved It" camp...I could care less about Nikki and Paulo as well...but then to be simply engrossed in their episode...and I actually did not want them to die/buried alive at the end...

Did Artz actually mention the paralysis part about the Medusa spider...while I was watching, I only recalled the bit about the pheremones...maybe something about venom...and I really didn't think about the name of the spider either while watching the episode...so the twist for me hit me like a ton of bricks...

I also DVR and watch while FFing the commercials...so I don't have a lot of time to think about/analyze while I'm watching...

regardless, I have no complaints about this episode...but have no ill will to those who do...

carry on...

So is it safe to say that the other only kidnapped Walt to force the deal with Michael to get him to bring back Jack, Sawyer and Kate?? and they didn't want him for the at all for the tests, ect. that they claimed they did on him?
Correct. Ben knew that if he just walked up and asked Jack to help him that jack would have refused. Better to go through several degrees of subterfuge to capture him, then convince him to do the surgery by offering him a free ride home (which would never have worked at the beginning because uh....oh never mind)

In retrospect, the best part of this episode was seeing jet engine guy again. :D

Correct. Ben knew that if he just walked up and asked Jack to help him that jack would have refused. Better to go several degrees of subterfuge to capture him, then convince him to do the surgery by offering him a free ride home (which would never have worked at the beginning because uh....oh never mind)

In retrospect, the best part of this episode was seeing jet engine guy again. :D
Incorrect because at this time the others already had Walt. They just used Michael to get Jack, baiting him to come to the other side of the island.

In retrospect, the best part of this episode was seeing jet engine guy again. :D

I was hoping we'd get to see Artz get blown up all over Hurley again. :D

I was hoping we'd get to see Artz get blown up all over Hurley again. :D
Yeah, then cut to Nikki standing off to the side, going "eeewwwww teacher stuff all over me".

The Lost Reverence Police will be jumping in here momentarily, but before they arrive, just one more observation about the total cheesiness, absurdity, out-of-contextiness of last night's episode:

Tonight: Special Guest Star Billy Dee Williams as himself!

Incorrect because at this time the others already had Walt. They just used Michael to get Jack, baiting him to come to the other side of the island.

Are we sure of that? I thought that this event with Paulo exploring the Pearl Hatch to find a hiding place for the diamonds happened before Michael made his ill-fated escape attempt which resulted in Walt's kidnapping. We need a time-line on this; the "obsessive" LOST fan-sites probably have already done this research (but I try to avoid them).

I had wished for the 2 useless characters to be dead and my thoughts right near the end were, "Damn! They're just paralyzed? Now these losers will recover from paralysis and we'll be stuck with them!" Wrong.

I KNOW! That was my thought exactly - "oh no, they aren't really dead and they're gonna be back". Thankfully the writers let the lousy-acting "mannequins" DIE and didn't write them into the ongoing storyline. I'm happy! :)

You people suck. :mad:

Don't hold back Josh; tell us how you REALLY feel!

Are we sure of that? I thought that this event with Paulo exploring the Pearl Hatch to find a hiding place for the diamonds happened before Michael made his ill-fated escape attempt which resulted in Walt's kidnapping. We need a time-line on this; the "obsessive" LOST fan-sites probably have already done this research (but I try to avoid them).
Well the video of Jack they were looking at looked much later than the time Walt was kidnapped.

I am sure that I heard the smoke monster sound a moment before the other spiders appeared. Anyone else? However, it was stated by the teacher that the pheromones would draw the other spiders.

With all of those spiders around how come no one has been bitten in all this time up to now? Dumb. (or maybe it was Smokey after all?)

No, it's not going to happen, asking people to leave a thread because they have an opposing viewpoint would intellectually bankrupt the thread in my opinion. Having different views enriches the discussion, much more interesting than post after post reiterating the same point, cheerleading as it were.

I have made many favorable post about this show, and I have made unflattering posts as well, and I will will continue to post whatever is on my mind and how I feel about a particular point or episode.

Having everyone in agreement about something makes for a very dull playground.

Affording your fellow poster the courtesy and respect to post their viewpoint, pro or con, provides for some interesting and thoughtful discussion. Posting something like "I don't like it" or "It sucks", I agree, there's no value in that sort of post, but posts that support and give reasoning behind the viewpoint are every bit as interesting and important, and deserve the respect the "favorable" posts already have.

As your response was to Josh Z, I'll just say that I have conversed with him elsewhere in this forum and in most all cases, our likes and dislikes are very similar and I can't imagine that's he's advocating that opposing viewpoint posters just don't post here anymore. If he's talking about the one liner, "it sucks" type of post, then I agree, those posts are worthless.

I agree!

With all of those spiders around how come no one has been bitten in all this time up to now? Dumb. (or maybe it was Smokey after all?)


They are only attracted to the female pheremone...which paulo splattered all over his neck and hand and then transferred to niki's shoulder.

That grave yard is getting awful big. Loved the shot of the dog dragging the blanket off the bodies and nobody really giving a sh*t :)

That grave yard is getting awful big. Loved the shot of the dog dragging the blanket off the bodies and nobody really giving a sh*t :)

Let's see....

The marshal
Some gal drowned...did her body ever wash up on shore?
the guy ethan killed
ethan
boone
shannon
Eko (separate grave in the jungle?)
Ana Lucia
Libby
Paolo
Nikki
Artz doesn't count, unless they buried bits of him that stuck to their clothing.


I know I'm missing some...let's geek out and fill in the blanks :-)

Affording your fellow poster the courtesy and respect to post their viewpoint, pro or con, provides for some interesting and thoughtful discussion. Posting something like "I don't like it" or "It sucks", I agree, there's no value in that sort of post, but posts that support and give reasoning behind the viewpoint are every bit as interesting and important, and deserve the respect the "favorable" posts already have.

I think it's mostly the "if (such and such does/doesn't happen, etc.), then I'm gonna quit watching" posts that are the most annoying, waste everyone's time and that the rest of us could do without.

I think it's mostly the "if (such and such does/doesn't happen, etc.), then I'm gonna quit watching" posts that are the most annoying, waste everyone's time and that the rest of us could do without.

Yep, those posts really chap my hide, you see them in the 24 thread fairly often.

my cable box broke...I had to watch it in SD.....

So its hard to say whether I was disappointed with the SD version of LOSt or the episode kinda sucked.

my cable box broke...I had to watch it in SD...

I really feel for ya brotha'!

Well the video of Jack they were looking at looked much later than the time Walt was kidnapped.

I don't know that there's anything there that would lead one to that conclusion. On the other hand, the video had to be of Jack in the Swan Station (doesn't it?), so..... the question becomes: did the Losties find and occupy the Swan station prior to Michael, Walt, Sawyer, and Jin's escape attempt on the raft? If so, then Walt's kidnapping was originally unrelated to Ben's plan to snag a spinal surgeon. If not, then it's possible that they only wanted Walt in order to manipulate Michael into bringing Jack and the others to them.

Too bad Hurley couldn't push replay to correctly hear "para-lyzed" instead of "Paulo lies"!

Personally, I'm glad he COULDN'T. They'd probably still be alive!

Are we sure of that? I thought that this event with Paulo exploring the Pearl Hatch to find a hiding place for the diamonds happened before Michael made his ill-fated escape attempt which resulted in Walt's kidnapping. We need a time-line on this; the "obsessive" LOST fan-sites probably have already done this research (but I try to avoid them).

Jack was in the Swan hatch, so Walt was already kidnapped.

I don't know that there's anything there that would lead one to that conclusion. On the other hand, the video had to be of Jack in the Swan Station (doesn't it?), so..... the question becomes: did the Losties find and occupy the Swan station prior to Michael, Walt, Sawyer, and Jin's escape attempt on the raft? If so, then Walt's kidnapping was originally unrelated to Ben's plan to snag a spinal surgeon. If not, then it's possible that they only wanted Walt in order to manipulate Michael into bringing Jack and the others to them.


Just a refresher...Jack, Kate, Locke, and Hurley blew up the hatch cover at the same time Sawyer, Jin, Michael and Walt were being attacked on the water. So if there's video of Jack in the hatch, then Walt has already been kidnapped.

The question remains as to whether Michael had already gone off looking for him, been followed by Jack and Company and had their standoff with Tom (Friendly). The Others had Michael by this point.

my cable box broke...I had to watch it in SD.....

So its hard to say whether I was disappointed with the SD version of LOSt or the episode kinda sucked.

Been there! But my TV has a QAM in it, so i'm good to go, just no DVR function.

But on WPVI in Philly, they usually turn off the HD about 15 seconds before the end of the show, and it's not even the regular black bars, it's the wavy moving around pillars they use for the powerball drawings(which are obviously in 4:3 SD) When the last scene is a dark one, you can barely see it. Next week's preview is farther pushed into a corner, using probably about 20% of my 56'' screen.

Honestly that is the biggest complaint of moving it to 10PM, cuts right into the powerball drawing which they hurry up and do during 10:59:30 to 11:00:00(and further condense the credits/next week's preview) so the local news isn't 30 seconds late, god forbid.

However this week they didn't cut out early, HD right until the final L O S T on the screen :)

Man, ABC.com has the absolute worst pictures! Where can you find the really good pics (if you know what I mean) of Nikki in last night's episode?
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x14-expose/djcaps/normal_Lost_S03E14DD904.jpg
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x14-expose/djcaps/normal_Lost_S03E14DD917.jpg

For timeline purposes, the Pearl scene had to have occurred after Season 2 Episode 1 (so that Jack could be in the hatch), after Season 2 Episode 8 (when Michael returned to the camp with the tailies), but before Season 2 Episode 14 (when Benry was captured).

Best place for screen grabs: http://www.lost-media.com

Let's see....

Artz doesn't count, unless they buried bits of him that stuck to their clothing.


What about the guy from the first episode who got sucked into the jet engine? I suppose technically he's already buried on the beach. Well, all over the beach.

For timeline purposes, the Pearl scene had to have occurred after Season 2 Episode 1 (so that Jack could be in the hatch), after Season 2 Episode 8 (when Michael returned to the camp with the tailies), but before Season 2 Episode 14 (when Benry was captured).

My head hurts! :D

...after Season 2 Episode 8 (when Michael returned to the camp with the tailies),...
Why would that need to be? It's just a shot of Jack sitting at a desk. Obviously it was after the hatch was opened, and before Ben was captured.

For timeline purposes, the Pearl scene had to have occurred after Season 2 Episode 1 (so that Jack could be in the hatch), after Season 2 Episode 8 (when Michael returned to the camp with the tailies), but before Season 2 Episode 14 (when Benry was captured).

They made it look like he went to the Pearl station right after finding the diamonds which occured right after they found the guns which occured during seaon 1. He would have had to hang on to the diamonds into season 2 in order to have ben see Jack on the monitor.

Well, that's not going to happen. And by being a constant sycophant for something is weak and unproductive. If you don't like an opinion argue against it rather than putting your fingers in your ears and going na-na-na because not being able to look at something objectively is also a waste of an opinion.

I don't want this thread to be populated by sycophants. However, acknowledging when the show does produce a good episode doesn't make one a sycophant. This was actually a great episode, one of the show's best ever. When I was watching it, even though I'd DVR'ed for time delay and could fast forward through the commercials, I found the few seconds at each break unbearable because I couldn't wait to see what happened in the next scene.

I came here the next morning excited to discuss the episode, but all I see are endless posts bitching "Terrible episode", "Worst episode ever", "Lousy filler", "I hated this crap", etc. etc. etc.

I'll say it again. You people suck. :(

The reason this episode existed at all was because viewers publicly voiced their opinion about how much they hated Nikki and Paulo. So you have the dissenting voice to thank for this one.

Do you not have any idea how long each of these episodes is in production? You think an episode airs, some fans complain about a character, and the next day the producers start filming an episode to kill them off? This episode made it perfectly clear that Paulo and Nikki's storyline had been thoroughly plotted out since their first appearance. All the clues had been carefully and stealthily layed out the entire season to tie together in this one episode. They weren't killed off due to public outcry. They were killed off because that was the plan the whole time.

...Benry was only supposed to be in it for a few episodes originally. Now he's a major character. The Lost boys rewrite the show all the time based on feedback.
Yes but they planned to change the story line. :)

Yes but they planned to change the story line. :)

See! It's the perfect get out of jail free excuse!

Works every time. :)

I have to say, Josh, to someone whom I respect as a reviewer, I'm really surprised to hear your high opinion of this episode. I've already mentioned more than a few of the reasons why I thought it was piss-poor. I mean, Billy Dee Williams as himself???? Paralyzing spiders? I saw that one a mile away, and I'm the guy who was totally surprised that Bruce Willis was dead.

I came here the next morning excited to discuss the episode, but all I see are endless posts bitching "Terrible episode", "Worst episode ever", "Lousy filler", "I hated this crap", etc. etc. etc.

I'll say it again. You people suck. :(





Josh....it's time to seriously consider cutting back on the caffeine. :)

There have been various opinions about this ep, both good, bad and in*between.

Do you not have any idea how long each of these episodes is in production? You think an episode airs, some fans complain about a character, and the next day the producers start filming an episode to kill them off? This episode made it perfectly clear that Paulo and Nikki's storyline had been thoroughly plotted out since their first appearance. All the clues had been carefully and stealthily layed out the entire season to tie together in this one episode. They weren't killed off due to public outcry. They were killed off because that was the plan the whole time.
Exactly!

I came here the next morning excited to discuss the episode, but all I see are endless posts bitching "Terrible episode", "Worst episode ever", "Lousy filler", "I hated this crap", etc. etc. etc.


If you walk out the door expecting everyone to share your opinion something is wrong. I thought Jingle All the Way was quite funny in parts, that doesn't mean everyone else should.

A good chunk of people hated this episode as we can see. Even those who have been on the positive side for the most part.

Even the EW link above expresses similar sentiment:

"I worry that this episode, entitled ''Exposé,'' might be a miscalculation. What the show doesn't need right now is an hour that feels like filler, like that poignant yet seemingly extracurricular Bernard-and-Rose installment last season. It seems to me that Lost has gained a lot of creative traction the past several weeks, and that the Locke episode in particular unleashed some renewed buzz. I hate to see that squandered."

Which I totally agree with. Last week had some fantastic Benry/Locke dialog building up to a major event. This week was pointless self-parody.

Going back to FNL. The FNL thread is universally positive about last night's episode but I am still expecting some not to have liked it and I'm still interested to see why.