http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x14-expose/djcaps/normal_Lost_S03E14DD904.jpg
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x14-expose/djcaps/normal_Lost_S03E14DD917.jpg

Best place for screen grabs: http://www.lost-media.com

Thanks guys. :)

Bottom line, I was terrifically entertained.

I come to the TV for info, or entertainment. I got my fill of entertainment. Superb fun.

Obviously they couldn't, and wouldn't, bring all the plane wreckage back to the beach in Hawaii just to shoot a few new scenes with Nikki and Paulo. And they had to insert Shannon, Boone, Artz, and Ethan in there as well. It sure was great CGI work though. Seamless. They probably used additional footage filmed originally but cut out of the original broadcast for background, then digitally inserted the characters.

Guess they must have had a great cast reunion party shooting that ep though! Filler thought it was, I enjoyed it. But then I enjoy them all, which makes me an anomaly around here sometimes.Well.....I watched last night's ep only about halfway through (fell asleep), right when they found Nikki and Paulo on the beach. Sure, it was definitely interesting, and it was great seeing the old faces, but it also felt a bit cheap the way they inserted Nik and Paulo as if they were there all the time.

Appearently I missed a lot, and I didn't record, so I think I'll need to watch it again. No, I personally am not (yet) done with Lost, but I have tuned out 24 long ago. And if last night was better than Eko's departure episode, I definitely missed a lot.

I mean, Billy Dee Williams as himself????

You got a problem with Lando Calrissian?

Paralyzing spiders? I saw that one a mile away, and I'm the guy who was totally surprised that Bruce Willis was dead.

I knew Bruce Willis was dead from the 2nd scene of that movie.

more from Lindelof courtesy of TV Guide:

"People hated them before they even opened their mouths to say anything significant because it felt like they were crashing the party," exec producer Damon Lindelof acknowledges of the characters who were abruptly introduced last fall. "The easiest thing would have been to just write them out and forget they ever happened, like the cougar on [Season 2] of 24. But that's not Lost. We should at least own up to it."

http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=800011706

You got a problem with Lando Calrissian?
Well it's the first time we've had a real live person inside the fictional Lost universe. That's a pretty major switch up to me, akin to having one of the characters start tapping on the screen and talking directly to us.

Granted it would have been worse if they plugged a current ABC show, but it was still a little jarring.

I think people hate the way they were introduced. As DL said, 'abruptly'. It would have been perfectly fine if they were slowly drawn from the background. Yes, I personally hated their sudden appearance, but not the characters themselves.

I think people hate the way they were introduced. As DL said, 'abruptly'. It would have been perfectly fine if they were slowly drawn from the background. Yes, I personally hated their sudden appearance, but not the characters themselves.

I hated them because they took face time away from characters we already knew and liked and who were already not getting any screen time. We already had a whole new community of Others, the show didn't need more characters on the Losties side.

Artz in season one was a great example of stunt casting. People didn't really mind his intro because we were still in early stages of the show and he was quite a good character. So introducing him with the idea of blowing him up three episodes later was good shock value.

I imagine that was an idea they held over after not killing Jack at the end of the pilot.

Well it's the first time we've had a real live person inside the fictional Lost universe. That's a pretty major switch up to me, akin to having one of the characters start tapping on the screen and talking directly to us.



I don't see it akin to that at all.
They refer to the Red Sox and the World Series in LOST. Should that be disallowed for some obscure purpose?

Oh I can't believe I forgot to rant about this one:

Nikki apparently got cast as a special guest star in Expose so that she could get close to the old fart director's diamonds, or maybe she just serendipidously found out about the diamonds later - but how about Paulo, the mini Wolfgang Puck of Brazil, showing up at OF's office every day until they were forced to hire him as their chef just so he could slip OF some poison.

Mmmmmmkay. :rolleyes:

...I personally hated their sudden appearance, but not the characters themselves.

With me it was the opposite.

It's Arzt; A-R-Z-T. Not Artz, or any variation thereof.

I don't see it akin to that at all.
They refer to the Red Sox and the World Series in LOST. Should that be disallowed for some obscure purpose?
That's a little different. They have real cars and stuff too in the flashbacks. But a real life person appearing as themselves in a fictional universe is very much like breaking the fourth wall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall).

my cable box broke...I had to watch it in SD.....

So its hard to say whether I was disappointed with the SD version of LOSt or the episode kinda sucked.

must have a crappy hd set, never fails to still have a decent crt around :D

That's a little different. They have real cars and stuff too in the flashbacks. But a real life person appearing as themselves in a fictional universe is very much like breaking the fourth wall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall).

????? Did I miss the scene where Billy Dee Williams spoke to the audience? I think the Forth Wall is intact...

He didn't speak, no, I said it was akin to breaking the fourth wall. He was referred to by name as Billy Dee.

Was Billy Dee Williams just pretending to be acting in a Lost episode, or was Billy Dee Williams really somehow sucked in to the Lost universe? If he was just pretending to be in a Lost episode, was Nikki really in the Lost episode, or was she just an actress pretending to be Nikki? Were the other actors just pretending to be on Lost but really they are just actors like Billy Dee Williams? Now, if they just happened to find a DVD of Empire Strikes Back, (and Nikki digs herself out of the dirt hill), would she recognize Billy Dee in the movie? I'm so confused.

I don't want this thread to be populated by sycophants. However, acknowledging when the show does produce a good episode doesn't make one a sycophant. This was actually a great episode, one of the show's best ever. When I was watching it, even though I'd DVR'ed for time delay and could fast forward through the commercials, I found the few seconds at each break unbearable because I couldn't wait to see what happened in the next scene.

I came here the next morning excited to discuss the episode, but all I see are endless posts bitching "Terrible episode", "Worst episode ever", "Lousy filler", "I hated this crap", etc. etc. etc.

I'll say it again. You people suck. :(
Whether you are or aren't a sycophant is immaterial. That's your choice. I don't have a problem with that. OTOH, I do have a problem with your rather un-american approach to an open dialogue with others if they don't reinforce your own particular views, which IMO, have no greater value than anyone else's.

________________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

You people suck. :mad:

I loved this episode. Anyone who didn't, I honestly think you should stop watching the show and stop posting in this thread, because you're never going to be satsified by anything about the show ever again, and you're basically just wasting our time here.

talk about someone that needs a chill pill or a lil wacky tobaccy... :D

If you deleted all the luv/hate and whining about whining post, prop be about 100 pages maybe 300.

TV shows arent sporting events where you gather together and can talk during commercials or right after. Forums give you that chance and just like being with someone, you can ignore em. but no, people feel oh so confident to respond because they're not right next to someone.

LOST is the only show I know thats on where people even bother askin questions outside the normal show.

I have yet to find a simple forum where people just talk about the show. No whining, simple luv/hate or any other silly rant posts.

back on the show though...

I watched it again and still dont see any reasoning to it other than Sun finding out about Sawyer & Charlie taking her instead of "the others" and bringing back smokey.

so I still think it was a garbage filler.

What a complete waste of an hour last night was.

He didn't speak, no, I said it was akin to breaking the fourth wall. He was referred to by name as Billy Dee.

Was Billy Dee Williams just pretending to be acting in a Lost episode, or was Billy Dee Williams really somehow sucked in to the Lost universe? If he was just pretending to be in a Lost episode, was Nikki really in the Lost episode, or was she just an actress pretending to be Nikki? Were the other actors just pretending to be on Lost but really they are just actors like Billy Dee Williams? Now, if they just happened to find a DVD of Empire Strikes Back, (and Nikki digs herself out of the dirt hill), would she recognize Billy Dee in the movie? I'm so confused.

Billy Dee Williams is an actor in the Lost universe, the same actor who appeared in Empire Strikes Back. If Nikki was watching ESB, she'd probably reminisce fondly about the time she spent working with the actor who played Lando. The same way the players on the Red Sox exist in the Lost universe and won the world series just like they did in real life, the same way Bush was reelected and Christopher Reeves dies (the other incidents which Ben referred to). I'm not sure how it breaks a rule, unless Billy Dee appeared in another Lost episode playing a character who was not Billy Dee Williams. Sort of like Julia Roberts playing a character who looks just like Julia Roberts then pretending to be Julia Roberts, even though she is Julia Roberts, in Ocean's 12.

OK so he was just pretending to be Billy Dee Williams. Now I get it. Pretty cool how they hired the actual Billy Dee Williams to play Billy Dee Williams. Talk about typecasting though.

That's a little different. They have real cars and stuff too in the flashbacks. But a real life person appearing as themselves in a fictional universe is very much like breaking the fourth wall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall).
Thanks for that link, it lays out premises and thoughts I've often had trouble conveying, or articulating in the past. :)

OK so he was just pretending to be Billy Dee Williams. Now I get it. Pretty cool how they hired the actual Billy Dee Williams to play Billy Dee Williams. Talk about typecasting though.

Not as cool as when they got Alex Trebek to play the actual Alex Trebek, who happened to be moonlighting as one of the Men In Black, in the X-Files. Classic.

Thanks for that link, it lays out premises and thoughts I've often had trouble conveying, or articulating in the past. :)
You're welcome. How 'bout this little discussion about suspension of disbelief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief)?

For instance, in one episode of Step by Step, Cody acknowledges Full House as a fictional TV show. The character of Steve Urkel guest-starred in an episode of Full House as well as an episode of Step by Step. Obviously this would present a contradiction to someone suspending disbelief, since if Urkel was a real person in the Step by Step world - a world in which Full House was fiction - he wouldn't be able to get into the fictional Full House world.

Problems are also noticable in Friends where celebrities such as Winona Ryder and Bruce Willis are mentioned by name and later appear playing characters other than themselves. It would seem that the characters in the shows would recognize the celebrities, therefore making suspension of disbelief impossible or at least illogical.
What if Urkel showed up?

If the episode had been promoted or billed, as a spoof, or even a "response to viewer criticism" special episode, I probably could have enjoyed it more, and not taken it seriously, which it clearly was not meant to be.

Similar to a Supernatural Halloween spoof ep that aired last year, there have been other cases where a show has done this as well.

People posting their OPINION as FACT and not knowing the difference is bad enough, but then they want to FIGHT about it!

Here's a tutorial: http://dhp.com/~laflemm/RfT/Tut2.htm

Billy Dee Williams is an actor in the Lost universe, the same actor who appeared in Empire Strikes Back. If Nikki was watching ESB, she'd probably reminisce fondly about the time she spent working with the actor who played Lando. The same way the players on the Red Sox exist in the Lost universe and won the world series just like they did in real life, the same way Bush was reelected and Christopher Reeves dies (the other incidents which Ben referred to). I'm not sure how it breaks a rule,

It doesn't.
It violates what some folks have self-imposed as a 'rule'.
That's their problem.

It doesn't.
It violates what some folks have self-imposed as a 'rule'.
That's their problem.

to balance it out, Charlie needs to record and release the Driveshaft album. Then the Lost universe would be stepping into the real world and they would cancel each other out.

No wait, it's already happened. Gary Troup's book was published, so that makes the Lost universe exist in this one already.

Or ... eh. Something. :confused:

I never said it broke a rule, I said it was jarring to me. If it didn't bother anybody else, fine.

But why Billy Dee? Do you think he has something to do with Dharma in real life?

all the episode needed was a particular `The Who' song...hence why I thought it was LAME.

...after Season 2 Episode 8 (when Michael returned to the camp with the tailies),...

Why would that need to be? It's just a shot of Jack sitting at a desk. Obviously it was after the hatch was opened, and before Ben was captured.

Ben said they could use Michael to get Jack, Kate, and Sawyer to come to them. If Michael was still off somewhere with the tailies they couldn't have used him.

If the episode had been promoted or billed, as a spoof, or even a "response to viewer criticism" special episode, I probably could have enjoyed it more, and not taken it seriously, which it clearly was not meant to be. So, what you're saying is that you couldn't enjoy it because you had to figure out yourself that it was going to be an off the wall, "extra curricular", unserious ep? If they would have told you ahead of time it would then have been OK? Really?

Whoever posted about four or five pages ago that some people take LOST way too seriously could not have been more right....

This EP was great. Very entertaining IMO. Tons of things to love about it. A-R-Z-T making a return appearance (and in fine form I might add). Innuendo aplenty. Gosh, but we didn't find out what the deal was with Locke's dad though. BFD. Prepare to probably be disappointed for a few more weeks brothers... ;)

But what I really like best about this EP is that it appears to have seriously pissed off all the starched shirt, stick up the butt, gotta get to the end and no dallying about with any fun stuff, overly type-A people. I'm SO sad for them :D. The way I see it, it's now been two and half seasons that we've seen how LOST operates, and all these people still have absolutely no friggin' clue that that's the way it is. How long does it take for the lights to go on? :D. You'd think that by now, even the most dense would have finally figured it out. Rational people quit watching shows they don't find compelling. You really have to question those that just keep watching and complaining, watching and complaining, watching and complaining. It can be quite entertaining at times actually trying to figure out just what makes these people tick, but it does get old after a while.

Many of these posts today remind me of the Tarentino EP of CSI last season. All the super serious, stuffed shirt CSI cognoscenti flipped out and had a cow about it. Oh my god, it was blasphemy! (actually one of the best ep of the season really). You know how boring The X-Files would have been if they didn't intersperse the Non-Conspiracy ep through out the show? Insufferable probably... Of course that's just my opinion and many others liked that aspect of the show. But the thing is, if it had been like that, I would have simply stopped watching instead of beating my head against the wall and continually whining like a little child about it.

BTW the Billy Dee casting was highly inspired!


ron

I enjoyed it. For a self-contained "filler" episode, it was entertaining.

Much better than a filler episode that yields nothing because they didn't communicate with each other, or someone kills someone before asking them some key questions. At least in this episode, none of the key characters did anything overtly stupid. (except for burying them alive, but mistakes happen ;) )

Although, it sure seemed like a Twilight Zone or Tales from the Darkside episode.

At least in this episode, none of the key characters did anything overtly stupid. (except for burying them alive, but mistakes happen ;) )

Well, that WAS by accident, but when I saw her eyes open I screamed out loud "SHOVEL FASTER, DAMMIT"!!!... :D

Rational people quit watching shows they don't find compelling. You really have to question those that just keep watching and complaining, watching and complaining, watching and complaining. It can be quite entertaining at times actually trying to figure out just what makes these people tick, but it does get old after a while.


Blind acceptance of something gets old as well. And a failure to accept other viewpoints and move on, which is the rational thing to do. I'm guessing a good chunk of the negative comments here are from people who remember what a tight ship this show was and are waiting for it to pull it back together. That's why they keep watching. I don't see why people have a hard time comprehending that the most passionate critics are those that actually care what happens to the quality of a show.

Based on the response around the internet a huge number of people and professional critics did not like this episode. So does that make all the negative views here wrong? If that's the more popular view does it not belong here? Since by ratio the negative views could outweigh the positive?

Whoever posted about four or five pages ago that some people take LOST way too seriously could not have been more right....

I would think you would have picked up on that back in season one. When people started making maps of the island, building timelines, freeze framing video and constructing the canon ...

So, what you're saying is that you couldn't enjoy it because you had to figure out yourself that it was going to be an off the wall, "extra curricular", unserious ep? If they would have told you ahead of time it would then have been OK? Really?


What I'm saying is that within the context of the show, probably the most serialized show on TV, other than 24, this episode had no value in the greater Lost universe. There was literally nothing added to the story, and in fact, if it was never aired there wouldn't have been anything missed either.

Folks who watch Lost have come to expect a certain degree of drama and plot movement, especially after the last few eps. Had I known this was going to be a tongue in cheek sort of episode, I probably would not have watched it.

It was entertaining on it's own, Nikki was sure nice to look at, but it could have been called "A Girl and Her Diamonds" and been shown as a non-essential webisode.

Just my opinion, to each his own.

So, what you're saying is that you couldn't enjoy it because you had to figure out yourself that it was going to be an off the wall, "extra curricular", unserious ep? If they would have told you ahead of time it would then have been OK? Really?

Whoever posted about four or five pages ago that some people take LOST way too seriously could not have been more right....

This EP was great. Very entertaining IMO. Tons of things to love about it. A-R-Z-T making a return appearance (and in fine form I might add). Innuendo aplenty. Gosh, but we didn't find out what the deal was with Locke's dad though. BFD. Prepare to probably be disappointed for a few more weeks brothers... ;)

But what I really like best about this EP is that it appears to have seriously pissed off all the starched shirt, stick up the butt, gotta get to the end and no dallying about with any fun stuff, overly type-A people. I'm SO sad for them :D. The way I see it, it's now been two and half seasons that we've seen how LOST operates, and all these people still have absolutely no friggin' clue that that's the way it is. How long does it take for the lights to go on? :D. You'd think that by now, even the most dense would have finally figured it out. Rational people quit watching shows they don't find compelling. You really have to question those that just keep watching and complaining, watching and complaining, watching and complaining. It can be quite entertaining at times actually trying to figure out just what makes these people tick, but it does get old after a while.

......


ron

Amen. :)

I also enjoyed the show. But I don't think it really took the long term story line any further. If Lost totally turned into one-off Twighligt Zone episodes I would eventually drift away. But I can certainly live with it if they toss in one once in awhile, say like Hurley's silly beer bus adventure.

And it was cleverly done. And I'll wager that at least once more Sawyer asks who the heck those people were. If we are real lucky maybe they will even get some use out of the walkie talky.

- Tom

Although, it sure seemed like a Twilight Zone or Tales from the Darkside episode.

What it reminded me most of was this old Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode. I haven't seen it since I was a kid, but it involves a woman who comes up with a cockeyed plot to have herself buried with a dead body, with the intention of having another person later come and dig her out. Now, why she needed to have herself buried with a body I can't quite recall, but after she is buried, sure enough, she finds out that the person she is buried with is the person who was supposed to dig her out. (duhn-duhn-duh!) When I was a kid I thought it was pretty chilling, but now I can only wonder how they passed off that ludicrous plot as believable.

That's exactly the episode I was thinking of - didn't remember it being an Alfred Hitchcock Presents though. Did it take place down in the Bayou with some Voodoo involved - or am I confusing yet another episode?

That's exactly the episode I was thinking of - didn't remember it being an Alfred Hitchcock Presents though. Did it take place down in the Bayou with some Voodoo involved - or am I confusing yet another episode?

It's been a while. I did some google searching and came up with this:

http://www.hitchcockwiki.com/hitchcock/wiki/The_Alfred_Hitchcock_Hour_-_Final_Escape

Somehow I remembered it being a woman, but I guess it was a man. I guess the plot to have himself buried makes a tad bit of sense.

OK Sawyer was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO hot in that episode! Swoon!

I knew Bruce Willis was dead from the 2nd scene of that movie.

Liar Liar pants on fire.

I am the person that ALWAYS guesses endings and I never saw that one coming.

It's been a while. I did some google searching and came up with this:

http://www.hitchcockwiki.com/hitchcock/wiki/The_Alfred_Hitchcock_Hour_-_Final_Escape

Somehow I remembered it being a woman, but I guess it was a man. I guess the plot to have himself buried makes a tad bit of sense.

I just thought in tone it was reminiscent of a Hitchcock Presents ..., but you are the second person I've seen today who has remembered that episode from way back! I don't think I've ever seen that one.

The ending I've seen in other things before. More recently it reminded me of the snakebite episode of Nightmares and Dreamscapes.

Man, people really need to become more laid back.

The episode was FUN. Who cares if it didn't "progress the storyline". Its value was being fun.

Personally, I thought many of the worst episodes this season were the ones that actually progressed the story arc. It's the one-off episodes that have really been the most interesting.

I predict this episode will be one that most people will remember above a lot of others. Heck, look how much discussion we've had on it already.

I agree. It was one of the better paced episodes and the ending was absolultely Hitchcockian! It was a hoot! Next week, sigh, back to "reality". :eek:

And look what else we got: Shannon! Boone! Ethan! Artz! (all in one piece, too! :D) Ecko's brother's drug plane! Billy Dee Williams! Pearl Station! The bathroom scene with Paolo was more than just a throwaway! Charlie confessing that he kidnapped Sun!

Not good: "ABC claimed second with the now-cancelled “Great American Dream Vote” (1.5), “According to Jim” (1.9), “In Case of Emergency” (1.9) and “Lost,” whose 5.1 hit yet another series low and declined for the fourth straight week).

http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11808

Also, did anyone else think those diamonds looked like 8 million?I don't know... but they would DEFINITELY be enough to buy back the Goondocks from Troy's father.

Liar Liar pants on fire.

I am the person that ALWAYS guesses endings and I never saw that one coming.

Maybe what he meant to say was that Willis's one-note expressions and sleepwalking/acting made it seem like he was dead. ;)

You got a problem with Lando Calrissian?



I knew Bruce Willis was dead from the 2nd scene of that movie.

Great, you ruined that movie for me. Thanks for spoiling the end. :D ;)

Not good: "ABC claimed second with the now-cancelled “Great American Dream Vote” (1.5), “According to Jim” (1.9), “In Case of Emergency” (1.9) and “Lost,” whose 5.1 hit yet another series low and declined for the fourth straight week).

http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11808

10pm on the East coast is just too late for a lot of us working folks. Many now DVR the peisode and watch it the next day without commercials.

You're welcome. How 'bout this little discussion about suspension of disbelief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief)?


What if Urkel showed up?
This also happened on The Practice and Boston Public. They had a crossover episode when one of the teachers on Boston Public hired the attorneys of The Practice to defend him. It was one of those episodes where you watched The Practice on Sunday, and then Boston Public on Monday to get the wrap up.

A mere 5 WEEKS later, there was an episode of The Practice where a witness testified that she remembered the exact time she heard gunshots because she was watching BOSTON PUBLIC on TV.

Sloppy... just sloppy...

But why Billy Dee? Do you think he has something to do with Dharma in real life?Because he is EXACTLY the type of actor who would appear in one of those cheesy syndicated shows like Expose. Remember the "Action Pack" on WGN? Tell me you couldn't see him appearing on "VIPER." The whole show was a wink and a nod. Very clever.

I just watched this episode last night. It frustrated me. If it has ANYTHING to do with what's going on in the show, then I think it was pathetic. However, fun to watch this show because Nikki is hot. Seemed like a filler episode to me. Just another pointer that this show is going further down hill.

However, fun to watch this show because Nikki is hot.

They really should have shown this ep when they first introduced the characters...without killing them off until later in the season.

I tell ya, Nikki on that pole was enough to turn me around on her character. Then her bikini scene on the beach sealed the deal. If we were going to have our time wasted, they ought to have given us some more eye candy before doing the deed :-)

The natives are restless. :)

Did Sawyer drop diamonds in the grave, or did he drop pieces of airplane window glass? Safety glass breaks into little pieces just like those diamonds. I can’t see Sawyer discarding them – he hordes everything.


Do you not have any idea how long each of these episodes is in production? You think an episode airs, some fans complain about a character, and the next day the producers start filming an episode to kill them off? This episode made it perfectly clear that Paulo and Nikki's storyline had been thoroughly plotted out since their first appearance. All the clues had been carefully and stealthily layed out the entire season to tie together in this one episode. They weren't killed off due to public outcry. They were killed off because that was the plan the whole time.

I couldn’t agree more.

Loved the shot of the dog dragging the blanket off the bodies and nobody really giving a sh*t :)
And how it was back on them prior to being buried. :)

So if you were stuck on that island, and all of a sudden you saw the coast guard coming to rescue you....how many of you would run back to the grave and try to recover those diamonds?

;)

Just so you all know, if you are given a paralytic (neuromuscular blockade) you die unless there is intervention. Paralysis=not breathing. Not breathing for a significant time (about 10 minutes)=profound hypoxia (no oxygen) and thus death of vital organs such as the brain. I know that the whole "accidentally paralyzed and everyone thinks you're dead" plot line is popular in movies and tv. However, it is not based on what really happens, just like all the whacky engineering/physics stuff that has been featured on this show that so many on this thread have debated about in the past. ;)

Now, having said that, I really liked the episode. It was entertaining and exciting. The reference at the beginning that guest actors have to be killed off made me laugh out loud. Lost is still a must see for me each week and I have enjoyed the show from the beginning.

Well, that WAS by accident, but when I saw her eyes open I screamed out loud "SHOVEL FASTER, DAMMIT"!!!... :D

Paulo was bit by the spider first, why wasn't he the first one to open his eyes ?

I didn't care for the episode when I watched it Wednesday, but when I rewatched it last night, it actually grew on me, not too bad. Especially liked the bikini shots of Nikki

Paulo was bit by the spider first, why wasn't he the first one to open his eyes ?

Where they were bitten...
Amount of venom in the bite...
Size/weight/body chemistry/physical condition of the victims...
etc.?

Where they were bitten...
Amount of venom in the bite...
Size/weight/body chemistry/physical condition of the victims...
etc.?
Plus, Paulo was still lying amongst the spiders whereas Nikki ran, he may have been bitten repeatedly.

CP,

How was that a spoiler? :confused: That quote was posted pages ago. Everything else was pure speculation on my part.

He didn't speak, no, I said it was akin to breaking the fourth wall. He was referred to by name as Billy Dee.

Was Billy Dee Williams just pretending to be acting in a Lost episode, or was Billy Dee Williams really somehow sucked in to the Lost universe? If he was just pretending to be in a Lost episode, was Nikki really in the Lost episode, or was she just an actress pretending to be Nikki? Were the other actors just pretending to be on Lost but really they are just actors like Billy Dee Williams? Now, if they just happened to find a DVD of Empire Strikes Back, (and Nikki digs herself out of the dirt hill), would she recognize Billy Dee in the movie? I'm so confused.

This is a nonsensical hang-up that you have. Here, let me fix it for you:

What if Billy Dee Williams, the actor hired by the producers of Lost, was playing a character named "Billy Dee" on that show. You know, kind of like how Jackie Chan usually plays characters named "Jackie", but those characters are not necessarily supposed to be Jackie Chan himself. This character called Billy Dee also happens to be an actor in the fictional Lost continuity.

Do the planets in your universe now fall back into alignment? :)

I think people hate the way they were introduced. As DL said, 'abruptly'. It would have been perfectly fine if they were slowly drawn from the background. Yes, I personally hated their sudden appearance, but not the characters themselves.I keep seeing this kind of comment. I don't understand what they mean. They have been in scenes all season. Sometimes they didn't say anything (so maybe they didn't get credits), but they were definitely there. I've never seen the guy before, but the girl was in a short-lived sitcom last year that I watched, mostly to look at her. So I definitely noticed when she was in the background.

Xesdeeni

I keep seeing this kind of comment. I don't understand what they mean. They have been in scenes all season. Sometimes they didn't say anything (so maybe they didn't get credits), but they were definitely there. I've never seen the guy before, but the girl was in a short-lived sitcom last year that I watched, mostly to look at her. So I definitely noticed when she was in the background.

Xesdeeni

He's referring to their original introduction. As some of the original Losties come back from their adventures, these two pop up out of nowhere asking questions relevant to the plot as if they had been involved prior, although they'd never been seen before. "Did you find this, did you do that?", etc.

It was awkward...it would have been better to have one of the Losties approach them for help "Hi there...Nikki, right? Our friend Locke is constipated...do you know anyone who is an expert pooper that might be able to help?" :-)

You know, kind of like how Jackie Chan usually plays characters named "Jackie", but those characters are not necessarily supposed to be Jackie Chan himself. This character called Billy Dee also happens to be an actor in the fictional Lost continuity.Wait... So is the Sheriff of Mayberry Andy Taylor? Or Andy Griffith? :confused:

Wait--tell me again why Billy Dee Williams can't play himself on a tv show? The LOST universe is supposed to be our universe, so what's the big deal?

He was probably on because the producers of LOST are big star wars fans. There have been some episodes that have had a few "Star Wars-isms" sprinkled in:

1. When Michael and Jin and building the boat, Michael goes to Jin and says, "no, no, no, this one goes here, that one goes there" (ala Han Solo from Empire)

2. Sawyer refers to Michael and Jin as "Han and Chewie" at some point.

3. Sawyer calls Hurley "Jabba" at one point.

I'm sure there are other, those are the one I can remember.

This whole Billy Dee Williams discussion is just incredible! The cast of 'LOST' is "real" in the show. Nikki's character is/was an actress prior to arriving on the island. Prior to arriving on the island she played a part in a TV show called "Expose" playing the role of "Corvette" alongside another actor who happened to be Billy Dee Williams, who was ALSO playing a role ("Mr. Rashad aka/"The Cobra") in said TV show (as a character other than himself). Am I missing something here???

On another note, the 'numbers' haven't been seen in some time. I'm surprised that they didn't show up on the clap-board (clapper?) in the Nikki TV wrap scene (with the exception of "15"). Earlier in the series they were all over the place. Any speculation here as to why they aren't prominent anymore?

. Any speculation here as to why they aren't prominent anymore?

Humm ... the hatch went BOOM?

Just so you all know, if you are given a paralytic (neuromuscular blockade) you die unless there is intervention. Paralysis=not breathing. Not breathing for a significant time (about 10 minutes)=profound hypoxia (no oxygen) and thus death of vital organs such as the brain. I know that the whole "accidentally paralyzed and everyone thinks you're dead" plot line is popular in movies and tv. However, it is not based on what really happens, just like all the whacky engineering/physics stuff that has been featured on this show that so many on this thread have debated about in the past. ;)

Now, having said that, I really liked the episode. It was entertaining and exciting. The reference at the beginning that guest actors have to be killed off made me laugh out loud. Lost is still a must see for me each week and I have enjoyed the show from the beginning.

If Star Trek, Star Wars and Star everything else can have sound in the vacuum of space, then I can deal with this little inconsistancy.

I thought it was fun too. Go Nicki.. Hug that poll... Uh, isn't it cold to have it there?

What it reminded me most of was this old Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode. I haven't seen it since I was a kid, but it involves a woman who comes up with a cockeyed plot to have herself buried with a dead body, with the intention of having another person later come and dig her out. Now, why she needed to have herself buried with a body I can't quite recall, but after she is buried, sure enough, she finds out that the person she is buried with is the person who was supposed to dig her out. (duhn-duhn-duh!) When I was a kid I thought it was pretty chilling, but now I can only wonder how they passed off that ludicrous plot as believable.

I think it was a Twilight Zone and if I recall correctly, it was a prison escape plan gone terribly wrong.

I don't want this thread to be populated by sycophants. However, acknowledging when the show does produce a good episode doesn't make one a sycophant. This was actually a great episode, one of the show's best ever. When I was watching it, even though I'd DVR'ed for time delay and could fast forward through the commercials, I found the few seconds at each break unbearable because I couldn't wait to see what happened in the next scene.

I came here the next morning excited to discuss the episode, but all I see are endless posts bitching "Terrible episode", "Worst episode ever", "Lousy filler", "I hated this crap", etc. etc. etc.

I'll say it again. You people suck. :(



Do you not have any idea how long each of these episodes is in production? You think an episode airs, some fans complain about a character, and the next day the producers start filming an episode to kill them off? This episode made it perfectly clear that Paulo and Nikki's storyline had been thoroughly plotted out since their first appearance. All the clues had been carefully and stealthily layed out the entire season to tie together in this one episode. They weren't killed off due to public outcry. They were killed off because that was the plan the whole time.

the actor that plays Ben was on the Ron and Fez radio show on XM radio a few weeks ago. I said that they currently had the most shows finished in advance that they ever had done. And he said they had 7 shows wrapped up and in the can. that was like 3 weeks ago. so, 3 episodes ago, and the next 4 were finished and ready to air. He also said it takes them I think 9 days to do a full episode, so the break really helped them get a bunch done in advance, that's why they aren't one new show, and 2 repeats, followed by another new one, and another 3 repeats anymore. It was a really great interview

Anyone else see David Spade's Showbiz Show's take on Lost? It used the ABC promo where they go on about how Lost is back and everyone will be talking around the water cooler, and they inserted scenes of Jack eating , Sun asking to have the cereal passed to her, Hurley eating a banana. Don't know if it's online but it was funny, and somewhere in there is a germ of truth.

This whole Billy Dee Williams discussion is just incredible! The cast of 'LOST' is "real" in the show. Nikki's character is/was an actress prior to arriving on the island. Prior to arriving on the island she played a part in a TV show called "Expose" playing the role of "Corvette" alongside another actor who happened to be Billy Dee Williams, who was ALSO playing a role ("Mr. Rashad aka/"The Cobra") in said TV show (as a character other than himself). Am I missing something here???

You're missing nothing. Some anal types have their panties all atwist over a supposed violation of a self-imposed, arbitrary "rule".

Put me in the list of those thoroughly enjoying this episode and the resurgence of LOST from its doldrums of earlier this season. The clever writers continue to show creativity, character development and a quirky sense of humor.

CP,

How was that a spoiler? :confused:
I’ll try this then. I suspect we haven't seen the end of Nikki and Paulo's. I don't think we've seen the end of those diamonds either.

I’ll try this then. I suspect we haven't seen the end of Nikki and Paulo's.

NOOOOOooo!
Please, just when I was feeling good about LOST! :)

Ben was on the Ron and Fez radio show on XM radio a few weeks ago. I said that they currently had the most shows finished in advance that they ever had done. And he said they had 7 shows wrapped up and in the can. that was like 3 weeks ago. so, 3 episodes ago, and the next 4 were finished and ready to air. He also said it takes them I think 9 days to do a full episode, so the break really helped them get a bunch done in advance, that's why they aren't one new show, and 2 repeats, followed by another new one, and another 3 repeats anymore. It was a really great interview

How could you believe Ben? He admits he lies and manipulates people thru their emotions.

He didn't speak, no, I said it was akin to breaking the fourth wall. He was referred to by name as Billy Dee.

Was Billy Dee Williams just pretending to be acting in a Lost episode, or was Billy Dee Williams really somehow sucked in to the Lost universe? If he was just pretending to be in a Lost episode, was Nikki really in the Lost episode, or was she just an actress pretending to be Nikki? Were the other actors just pretending to be on Lost but really they are just actors like Billy Dee Williams? Now, if they just happened to find a DVD of Empire Strikes Back, (and Nikki digs herself out of the dirt hill), would she recognize Billy Dee in the movie? I'm so confused.

You must be joking, right?

Anyway, I thought this episode was a great change of pace for a filler episode. It built from a so-so beginning up into an excellent ending and I was pleasantly surprised. Nice.

Hey look, people are talking about LOST again.

I think the producers must be happy.

How could you believe Ben? He admits he lies and manipulates people thru their emotions.

Well that depends. Was the guy on XM really Ben? Or was he just an actor playing Ben? Was this in our world or the Lost world?

We need to stop. My head hurts.

:D

ahright - you guys are right. What was I thinking?

This episode was an absolute HOOT! My favorite parts:

- I loved the shoutout to the fans about not knowing who Nikki and Paulo were. I thought I missed it at first but no it really was like Sawyer was saying it several times so I figured it out.

- How about that Ben guy in the bunker? Man he is an evil manipulator. We know because he told us out right. And - I hope this isn't a spoiler - the way Juliet says "yo that doctor guy is HOT!!!" makes me think those two are going to prawly get together in the future if you know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge.

- And most of all, seeing Billy Dee as himself - that was the master stroke. It made me think whoa this flashback is more real because there are real washed up actors in it playing themselves. Maybe they can get David Duchovnik for A Very Special Lost Christmas show.

ahright - you guys are right. What was I thinking?

This episode was an absolute HOOT! My favorite parts:

- I loved the shoutout to the fans about not knowing who Nikki and Paulo were. I thought I missed it at first but no it really was like Sawyer was saying it several times so I figured it out.

- How about that Ben guy in the bunker? Man he is an evil manipulator. We know because he told us out right. And - I hope this isn't a spoiler - the way Juliet says "yo that doctor guy is HOT!!!" makes me think those two are going to prawly get together in the future if you know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge.

- And most of all, seeing Billy Dee as himself - that was the master stroke. It made me think whoa this flashback is more real because there are real washed up actors in it playing themselves. Maybe they can get David Duchovnik for A Very Special Lost Christmas show.

Careful! My sarcasm detector is fragile!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/sarcasm.jpg

How could you believe Ben? He admits he lies and manipulates people thru their emotions.

ha :)

Careful! My sarcasm detector is fragile!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/sarcasm.jpg
Your name is making me confused. :)

CP,

How was that a spoiler? :confused: That quote was posted pages ago. Everything else was pure speculation on my part.

It wasn't the speculation, it was quoting info from the producers from a magazine interview (or any interview) that would be considered a spoiler.

Just be glad that they didn't go with the original idea and make the entire episode just one long show of Expose. That would have really messed up the reality/Lost crossover point! According to the show notes for this episode they were thinking about having several episodes of the show-within-a-show.

Would those episodes occur in the strip club?

(May be changing his mind about Nikki here)

Would those episodes occur in the strip club?

(May be changing his mind about Nikki here)

if Football Wives bombs, there could be an opportunity for an Expose spinoff. I would probably watch that!

How could you believe Ben? He admits he lies and manipulates people thru their emotions.

So is he telling the truth or lying when he says he lies?

Clever ending, just emerging from spider-bite paralysis while being buried. Briefly reminded me of the horrific ending to the original Dutch-made "The Vanishing" (1988), except in that film you were rooting for a protagonist trying to learn what happened to his wife. -- John

Did they ever explain why Paulo and Niki had a walki talki? Where did they get that from and what did they use it for?

Did they ever explain why Paulo and Niki had a walki talki? Where did they get that from and what did they use it for?
Yes they did - Paolo picked it up after Ben left it at the Pearl station.

> Did they ever explain why Paulo and Niki had a walki talki? Where did they get that from and what did they use it for?

I don't know what they used it for, but Paulo picked it up at the monitoring station while hiding the diamonds in the bathroom when Ben & Juliet presumably left it.

Hong.

Your name is making me confused. :)
I just now realized there were two of you! No wonder I thought you were being inconsistent in your comments. lol

I just now realized there were two of you!
lol. I didn’t notice that until you mentioned it. I thought he was just entertaining himself. :D There's another poster that talks to himself all the time in the movie discussion forum. :)

I keep seeing this kind of comment. I don't understand what they mean. They have been in scenes all season. Sometimes they didn't say anything (so maybe they didn't get credits), but they were definitely there. I've never seen the guy before, but the girl was in a short-lived sitcom last year that I watched, mostly to look at her. So I definitely noticed when she was in the background.


He's referring to their original introduction. As some of the original Losties come back from their adventures, these two pop up out of nowhere asking questions relevant to the plot as if they had been involved prior, although they'd never been seen before. "Did you find this, did you do that?", etc.

It was awkward...it would have been better to have one of the Losties approach them for help "Hi there...Nikki, right? Our friend Locke is constipated...do you know anyone who is an expert pooper that might be able to help?" :-)LOL. Thanks, Iteki; exactly what I meant. Then the producers go back and fake season-1 footage as if the two were always there. Oh, why do they insult us so? :rolleyes:

LOL. Thanks, Iteki; exactly what I meant. Then the producers go back and fake season-1 footage as if the two were always there. Oh, why do they insult us so? :rolleyes:
So you would have something to bit@$ and complain about.

So you would have something to bit@$ and complain about.

I understand his beef with how it was handled.

I have no problem with them introducing new characters, I only have a problem with how they did it.

I really enjoyed the ep, just not the 'arc' of Nikki/Paolo. Still love the show and will watch to the end...unless Billy Dee crashes on the island. :-) Who am I kidding, I'll still watch :-)

I loved the first season of Lost, I also really dug the second season.

A few episodes of the new season were good, but overall it has been a disappointment.

I found the last episode to be completely friggin' terrible, Lost has just officially jumped the shark.

- And most of all, seeing Billy Dee as himself - that was the master stroke. It made me think whoa this flashback is more real because there are real washed up actors in it playing themselves. Maybe they can get David Duchovnik for A Very Special Lost Christmas show.

I still don't understand your point. Are you saying that Billy Dee can't be on the show at all because Sawyer has made references to Star Wars and that's just too confusing for you as a viewer to deal with the crazy possibility that a writer or someone in casting thought that maybe a cameo would be fun for the viewers?

Do you watch Heroes? You must've ripped your TV off the wall and threw it out the window when Stan Lee and Mr. Sulu did cameos.

Do you watch Heroes? You must've ripped your TV off the wall and threw it out the window when Stan Lee and Mr. Sulu did cameos.

Well, in all fairness, they were playing characters (and Sulu's role on 'Heroes' is more than a cameo), not themselves. At any rate, it didn't bother me at all. They've already made reference to the World Series of 2004, so they've grounded the show in "real life".

I still don't understand your point. Are you saying that Billy Dee can't be on the show at all because Sawyer has made references to Star Wars and that's just too confusing for you as a viewer to deal with the crazy possibility that a writer or someone in casting thought that maybe a cameo would be fun for the viewers?

Do you watch Heroes? You must've ripped your TV off the wall and threw it out the window when Stan Lee and Mr. Sulu did cameos.

That wasn't Billy Dee. That was Billy Dee playing Billy Dee (as himself). [sound of head exploding].

Do you watch Heroes? You must've ripped your TV off the wall and threw it out the window when Stan Lee and Mr. Sulu did cameos.

Actually, Takei's cameo provides a counterpoint to Billy Dee's cameo in Lost. Check out all the Star Trek references from Heroes so far:

http://heroeswiki.com/Star_Trek

In particular, this one: "Hope calls Hiro "Sulu" just before she punches him in the face."

So the show Star Trek exists in the Heroes universe, as does the character Sulu. Was Sulu played by George Takei in the Heroes universe? If so, does Hiro's father just look exactly like George Takei? You get the idea... and honestly, this didn't even occur to me until now. I have zero problem with Takei playing Hiro's father, but it's more of a logic problem than Billy Dee playing himself on Lost. If Billy Dee had played another character, then Sawyer's Star Wars references might have been relevant.

I think Steve Schauer would probably go postal if he ever watched an episode of Entourage.

Then the producers go back and fake season-1 footage as if the two were always there. Oh, why do they insult us so? :rolleyes:
I do believe the producers have a reason for Nikki and Paulo, and in the end it will all make sense. As I said earlier, I don’t think we’ve seen the end of them. To introduce them this season and then devote an entire episode to them and not have anything come of it just doesn’t make sense. Yeah, I know, but I don’t get the same feel about Lost as I do with 24. With a show this complicated you have to have a clear objective and I’m putting my faith in the producers. <runs for cover>

LOL. Thanks, Iteki; exactly what I meant. Then the producers go back and fake season-1 footage as if the two were always there. Oh, why do they insult us so? :rolleyes:
How is this "insulting?" :confused:

We all know that there are other survivors (40+?) from the crash and we haven't met all of them yet (the "extras") since the show only focuses on a core 10-12 characters.

Personally I thought it was really neat to re-experience the initial crash from another p.o.v.

I'm with you Aliens, it'll all come to the surface (pun intended) sooner rather than later. As another poster referenced Locke's quote about things not staying buried for long, I don't think these two characters will either.

So the show Star Trek exists in the Heroes universe, as does the character Sulu. Was Sulu played by George Takei in the Heroes universe? If so, does Hiro's father just look exactly like George Takei? You get the idea... and honestly, this didn't even occur to me until now. I have zero problem with Takei playing Hiro's father, but it's more of a logic problem than Billy Dee playing himself on Lost. If Billy Dee had played another character, then Sawyer's Star Wars references might have been relevant.
What I can't understand is how Nathan's wife can be crippled on Heroes but be walking around and married to someone else on 24. And it all takes place at exactly the same time. :confused:

:D

While my wife recognized most of the plane crash scenes as having Nikki and Paulo added, she thought there was one scene where she remembered Nikki being in it originally, in season one. It was the scene where Jack gathers everybody for a pep talk. Nikki was kinda prominent this time, but, wife says, she was in it first time as well. I don't remember. Has anybody with the DVD gone back and checked those original crash scenes?

rewatched it today and Ben tells her put a PLANK on it and Tom (mr friendly) was in there not too long ago.

that was supposedly at the 32 day mark. On day 41 Boone is in the plane and makes radio contact with Bernard. Also on day 32 Walt burnt the raft, wasnt til after everyone met up that Mike left which would be in the 50's.

Unless paolo waited a few weeks to go into that hatch, I dont see things matching up...

I loved the first season of Lost, I also really dug the second season.

A few episodes of the new season were good, but overall it has been a disappointment.

I found the last episode to be completely friggin' terrible, Lost has just officially jumped the shark.

Yes. Absolutely HORRIBLE episode. I was actually pissed at the end of that one, mumbling, "WTF......."

After all of the widely diverse comments on this episode, I went back and watched it again. Actually it was even more fun the second time after I looked up the history of the Russian nesting dolls in Wikipedia:

Matryoshkas are a relatively new Russian handicraft; the first one dates from 1890, and is said to have been inspired by souvenir dolls from Japan. However, the concept of nested objects was familiar in Russia, having been applied to carved wooden apples and Easter eggs; the first Fabergé egg, in 1885, had a nesting of egg, yolk, hen, and crown.

I think the whole thing was the writers just having fun with our obsession of dissecting everything for hidden meaning, thus the reference to Easter eggs as in a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

Hate it if you must, but I still think it was extremely clever.

After all of the widely diverse comments on this episode, I went back and watched it again. Actually it was even more fun the second time after I looked up the history of the Russian nesting dolls in Wikipedia:

Matryoshkas are a relatively new Russian handicraft; the first one dates from 1890, and is said to have been inspired by souvenir dolls from Japan. However, the concept of nested objects was familiar in Russia, having been applied to carved wooden apples and Easter eggs; the first Fabergé egg, in 1885, had a nesting of egg, yolk, hen, and crown.

I think the whole thing was the writers just having fun with our obsession of dissecting everything for hidden meaning, thus the reference to Easter eggs as in a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
Assuming that was what the writers actually intended, can we agree that your post essentially confirmed their belief? ;) :D

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I have zero problem with Takei playing Hiro's father, but it's more of a logic problem than Billy Dee playing himself on Lost. If Billy Dee had played another character, then Sawyer's Star Wars references might have been relevant.

I just wanted to point out that *I'm* the person that brought out the Sawyer Star Wars references--I am clearly in the "Billy Dee on the show is no problem for me" camp. Steve Schauer (not me) has the problem with Billy Dee.

*I* was posting that the producers put the Star Wars references into the show because they are huge fans, and likely got Billy Dee on board because of their fandom.

Now that we are all clear, let's continue...

While my wife recognized most of the plane crash scenes as having Nikki and Paulo added, she thought there was one scene where she remembered Nikki being in it originally, in season one. It was the scene where Jack gathers everybody for a pep talk. Nikki was kinda prominent this time, but, wife says, she was in it first time as well. I don't remember. Has anybody with the DVD gone back and checked those original crash scenes?

I'm pretty sure that is not the case, since neither Nikkie nor Paulo were even cast at that point in time. She probably remembers somebody else.

I'm pretty sure that is not the case, since neither Nikkie nor Paulo were even cast at that point in time.Are we certain about that? How do we know when they were cast? Do "extras" appear in the credits? There names may not appear in the credits until they become prominent in the show, but they could have appeared in the background before, couldn't they?

I think the whole thing was the writers just having fun with our obsession of dissecting everything for hidden meaning, thus the reference to Easter eggs as in a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
If that's true then this was another case of the show referencing itself as just a silly TV show. Not a good sign. It's just one step away from self-parody. Why not have actors wink at the cameras? :confused:

Are we certain about that? How do we know when they were cast? Do "extras" appear in the credits? There names may not appear in the credits until they become prominent in the show, but they could have appeared in the background before, couldn't they?

The idea for an actress was brought up in season one. But Nikki and Paulo first appeared this season.

I suggest people listen to the discussion about this episode using the medium of the internet on ABC.com and the type of audio file that can't be mentioned here. :)

You'll hear how Lando got cast this episode. Which is quite funny.

If that's true then this was another case of the show referencing itself as just a silly TV show. Not a good sign. It's just one step away from self-parody. Why not have actors wink at the cameras? :confused:

But, but it is a silly TV show. It has enough plot holes and inconsistencies that you can drive a VW bus through (with 20+ year old gas).

It is also one that I have loved from the first episode, and continue to enjoy. It provides endless fun, and as I am posting it, this thread has 1,124,767 views. Where else can you go to read such passion about a Lord of the Flies/Gilligan's Island/Mysterious Island/Fantasy Island combo with a dash of Twilight Zone/Alfred Hitchcock/X-Files thrown in for good measure?

Even if an episode stumbles over itself, the banter here is priceless. Whatever its shortcomings are, it inspires passion among its fans and detractors.

Exactly. Folks have no business rationally complaining about incredible stuff like Locke's survival of an 8 story fall after they, the viewer, already bought into 40 people surviving a fall of 30,000 feet as an airplane broke in pieces at 500 mph.

They're arguing about the price after the profession was established.

Or slamming an artist for the unrealistic length of a unicorn's horn.

How is this "insulting?" :confused:

We all know that there are other survivors (40+?) from the crash and we haven't met all of them yet (the "extras") since the show only focuses on a core 10-12 characters.

Personally I thought it was really neat to re-experience the initial crash from another p.o.v.People, have an Ex-Lax and chill. I did use the sarcasm emote. Lost hasn't jumped the shark (for me). Yet.

Exactly. Folks have no business rationally complaining about incredible stuff like Locke's survival of an 8 story fall after they, the viewer, already bought into 40 people surviving a fall of 30,000 feet as an airplane broke in pieces at 500 mph.


I remember people arguing about how the plane broke up in the air for two seasons, until it was revealed that the bunker brought it down. Up until then it could have been brought down by a UFO tractor beam or the monster in bat form.

I don't see any issue with the plane crash. It was brought down by unnatural magnetic forces on an island that doesn't apparently obey the laws of physics. Some of the passengers could have died on impact and been reanimated by the island in the same way Locke had his legs fixed for all we know. The plane could have been slowed on impact by some weird force etc.

Falling from a window in the real world doesn't afford the story element the same escape clause (although weird crap still happens in the outside world), but it never bothered me.

The plane could have been slowed on impact by some weird force etc.Since you started it...I remember how cool we thought the footage was of the tail section crashing into the water. Those parts hit at pretty high speed - unless they deliberately didn't show us the parts that floated down gently to the water. :D I'm still waiting for that explanation, along with one for the numbers. Think we'll get either one?

Since you started it...I remember how cool we thought the footage was of the tail section crashing into the water. Those parts hit at pretty high speed - unless they deliberately didn't show us the parts that floated down gently to the water. :D I'm still waiting for that explanation, along with one for the numbers. Think we'll get either one?

The second one yes. That's already been explained outside of the show to a convincing degree. Wikipedia can give you a summary if you look there.

I don't remember if we saw the actual Losties crash in a flashback. The first scene of the show the Losties were already on the beach walking around. What happened between hitting the beach and Jack waking up is still a mystery isn't it? How did jack end up lying in the trees inland and uninjured? Will they remember to explain that? Is there an explanation? Will Jack marry Kate? Is Desmond really Scottish? Shouldn't his beard be longer by now? Who was that masked man?

These questions - and more - will be answered (possibly) on the next episode of Lost.

Clever ending, just emerging from spider-bite paralysis while being buried. Briefly reminded me of the horrific ending to the original Dutch-made "The Vanishing" (1988), except in that film you were rooting for a protagonist trying to learn what happened to his wife. -- John

The ending to 'Casino' came to mind.

I do believe the producers have a reason for Nikki and Paulo, and in the end it will all make sense. As I said earlier, I don’t think we’ve seen the end of them. To introduce them this season and then devote an entire episode to them and not have anything come of it just doesn’t make sense. Yeah, I know, but I don’t get the same feel about Lost as I do with 24. With a show this complicated you have to have a clear objective and I’m putting my faith in the producers. <runs for cover>

Personally I'm thinking they're done for (except for possible "flashbacks" like w/Boone & Shannon this week). I'm guessing they're roles were just disposable "filler" material and now we're past it and on to something else.

Personally I thought it was really neat to re-experience the initial crash from another p.o.v.

Me too from that aspect. I guess if the writers wanted they could do the same thing over and over with any other up-to-now anonymous "background" survivors, or they could have different camera angle shots banked from the original shooting.

I'm with you Aliens, it'll all come to the surface (pun intended) sooner rather than later. As another poster referenced Locke's quote about things not staying buried for long, I don't think these two characters will either.

If so I'd bet it will have to do with the diamonds surfacing and being lost into the surf rather than to do with the corpses. The did "plant" them on pretty high ground though, but I do get your (and Locke's) meaning.

After all of the widely diverse comments on this episode, I went back and watched it again. Actually it was even more fun the second time after I looked up the history of the Russian nesting dolls in Wikipedia:

Matryoshkas are a relatively new Russian handicraft; the first one dates from 1890, and is said to have been inspired by souvenir dolls from Japan. However, the concept of nested objects was familiar in Russia, having been applied to carved wooden apples and Easter eggs; the first Fabergé egg, in 1885, had a nesting of egg, yolk, hen, and crown.

I think the whole thing was the writers just having fun with our obsession of dissecting everything for hidden meaning, thus the reference to Easter eggs as in a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

Hate it if you must, but I still think it was extremely clever.

I had an Aunt who enjoyed placing my Christmas gift inside a box which was inside a bigger box which was inside an even bigger box etc. Sorta the same comcept.

I just wanted to point out that *I'm* the person that brought out the Sawyer Star Wars references--I am clearly in the "Billy Dee on the show is no problem for me" camp. Steve Schauer (not me) has the problem with Billy Dee.

*I* was posting that the producers put the Star Wars references into the show because they are huge fans, and likely got Billy Dee on board because of their fandom.

Now that we are all clear, let's continue...

How do we know for sure you're not both Steve Scherrer and Steve Schauer, someone with a split personality who disagree with each other on Internet forums?

But, but it is a silly TV show. It has enough plot holes and inconsistencies that you can drive a VW bus through (with 20+ year old gas).

It is also one that I have loved from the first episode, and continue to enjoy. It provides endless fun, and as I am posting it, this thread has 1,124,767 views. Where else can you go to read such passion about a Lord of the Flies/Gilligan's Island/Mysterious Island/Fantasy Island combo with a dash of Twilight Zone/Alfred Hitchcock/X-Files thrown in for good measure?

Even if an episode stumbles over itself, the banter here is priceless. Whatever its shortcomings are, it inspires passion among its fans and detractors.

Very well said Peter. After 2 1/2 years I haven't missed an episode, enjoyed all of them (some more than others of course, though none of which I though "sucked") and the anticipation of watching each one, as well as having a lot of fun reading the posts in this incredibly thread as well as posting to it once in awhile. I'd say I enjoy 99% of both the show and thread. I think there's lots more great entertainment to come, at least until an 'Oliver' or 'Stephanie' stow away on a Dharma food drop...

The second one yes. That's already been explained outside of the show to a convincing degree. Wikipedia can give you a summary if you look there.

I don't remember if we saw the actual Losties crash in a flashback. The first scene of the show the Losties were already on the beach walking around. What happened between hitting the beach and Jack waking up is still a mystery isn't it? How did jack end up lying in the trees inland and uninjured? Will they remember to explain that? Is there an explanation? Will Jack marry Kate? Is Desmond really Scottish? Shouldn't his beard be longer by now? Who was that masked man?

These questions - and more - will be answered (possibly) on the next episode of Lost.

When you're not being purposely contentious, VisionOn, you actually make pretty interesting reading. Thank's for chillin' out!

How do we know for sure you're not both Steve Scherrer and Steve Schauer

It is confusing. For the sake of clarity, the first one of them that makes a new post to this thread gets to keep his name. The other one will henceforth be referred to as "Bob". ;)

It is confusing. For the sake of clarity, the first one of them that makes a new post to this thread gets to keep his name. The other one will henceforth be referred to as "Bob". ;)

Well, in summary, *I* really liked the episode. Bob didn't.

When you're not being purposely contentions, VisionOn, you actually make pretty interesting reading. Thank's for chillin' out!

what's the world coming to? Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

Now now. I already said I'm down with Billy Dee being on the show. My only remaining concern is that he'll be typecast.

The show just hasn't been the same for me without Maggie Grace :(

Now now. I already said I'm down with Billy Dee being on the show. My only remaining concern is that he'll be typecast.

...maybe in a spinoff of Lost: Lando the Lost?

...maybe in a spinoff of Lost: Lando the Lost?

Good one. ;) Though I think maybe I've seen it. Doesn't it have the whole island floating up in the sky somewhere?

- Tom

So is he telling the truth or lying when he says he lies?
Yes

I remember people arguing about how the plane broke up in the air for two seasons, until it was revealed that the bunker brought it down. Up until then it could have been brought down by a UFO tractor beam or the monster in bat form.

I don't see any issue with the plane crash. It was brought down by unnatural magnetic forces on an island that doesn't apparently obey the laws of physics. Some of the passengers could have died on impact and been reanimated by the island in the same way Locke had his legs fixed for all we know. The plane could have been slowed on impact by some weird force etc.

Falling from a window in the real world doesn't afford the story element the same escape clause (although weird crap still happens in the outside world), but it never bothered me.

Say what?
All the 'real world' flashback stuff about the numbers and coincidences is weird. If the island can disrespect the 'laws o physics' who says that in the LOST universe pre-selected Locke can't fall 8 stories and live? Viewers bought into ALL these weirdities, starting with the plane crash. I cited the crash because it was in the FIRST episode and required the viewer to suspend any semblance of reality, requiring acceptance of events which just don't occur. THAT's why it's so ironic when folks who already bought into this by being continuing LOST viewers, lose their perspective and whine about some little detail like the precise medical effects of a neurotoxin and who should wake up 1st.

Not many actors fear being typecast as themselves.

Although in Billy Dee's case, I can see why that might be a concern. ;)

Say what?
All the 'real world' flashback stuff about the numbers and coincidences is weird. If the island can disrespect the 'laws o physics' who says that in the LOST universe pre-selected Locke can't fall 8 stories and live? Viewers bought into ALL these weirdities, starting with the plane crash.


I don't think it's that cut and dried. As we've already seen from the last few pages, the Lost real world and the "real" world are meant to exist in the same universe. So the physical rules of the real world in Lost based on what we've seen should appear "normal".

The island is different. From the first episode we already saw that the island exhibits physical differences to the real world. Magnetic anomalies, walking dead, strange experiments, Smoky the monster, people being unparalyzed etc. What happens on the island has the excuse that it's a central hub for weird and inexplicable crap.

Same goes for everything on the island. Anything with a Dharma logo doesn't have to obey the real world rules. It might look normal but it doesn't have to be. Dharma [possibly] built a magnetic containment chamber, ultrasonic weapon fence and some kind of island shield ... who knows what other whacky creations they made or things that they changed. Same for the spiders. They look like a typical species but we already know the island was used for animal experiments. It could be home to all sorts of genetically modified creatures.

But ...

the only things that we've seen in the outside world are coincidences and bad luck. I don't recall seeing anything that obviously changes our perception of the way the Lost real world works. Everything we've seen happen isn't bending any laws of science and nature. Even the meteor smashing Hurley's restaurant. Highly unlikely and a huge coincidence? Yes. Physically impossible? No.

That doesn't mean the characters themselves cannot be physically different in the real world. We know there's something different about Locke, we've seen it. So it's still possible that he could survive the fall because he might not be "normal." Any of the characters could have unrevealed abilities that make them different so they could operate outside the rules even in the real world.

Until we see a Dharma scientist pointing a ray gun at one of them in a flashback or revealing a big magnetic beam gun and Smoky monster birthing chamber under Washington, I think it's perfectly acceptable to want the real off-island world to still function as people expect it to.

Falling from a window in the real world doesn't afford the story element the same escape clause (although weird crap still happens in the outside world),

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgaLxD3wu6M

Until we see a Dharma scientist pointing a ray gun at one of them in a flashback or revealing a big magnetic beam gun and Smoky monster birthing chamber under Washington, I think it's perfectly acceptable to want the real off-island world to still function as people expect it to.

Major problem being with your tome is that that LOST events don't support it.

In the so-called 'real world' that you claim functions as people expect, Locke falls 8 stories and lives and Oh yes, meteors come blasting down and oblierate self-absorbed newsbabes.

Annoying stuff like that that totally contradicts your point despite an attempt at disclaimer.

In the so-called 'real world' that you claim functions as people expect, Locke falls 8 stories and lives and Oh yes, meteors come blasting down and oblierate self-absorbed newsbabes.

Annoying stuff like that that totally contradicts your point despite an attempt at disclaimer.

How does it contradict anything? As we can see in the video above weird stuff happens all the time in the actual world we live in. Last week a passenger jet was nearly hit by flaming satellite debris from space and there's the famous case of Jackie Pflug. The hijacked passenger who was shot in the back of the head at point blank range and thrown out of the aircraft door to the tarmac and stayed there for five hours, and survived.

The only difference is that on Lost we see all these people connected. It doesn't make the real world physically different yet. It just makes it coincidental and unlikely. You can still expect things to work the same way and weird coincidences and "I shouldn't be alive!" moments don't make it instantly a fantasy world. So arguing whether Locke could have survived or not based on how we view the world still applies.

If next season it's revealed that Locke was injected by a Dharma regenerative test virus when he was in the ambulance then it's going to make all the argument redundant and that's why I don't really care either way. Stuff like that I just put down to creative license with a dash of "eh, who knows. they might have some trick up their sleeve."

Lets get factual. Last week a passenger jet saw satellite debris MILES away. BFD!
Am I attempting to communicate with some kinda robotic plant from the wierdo LOST universe?

If you have the Chiller channel (D*) the Alfred Hitchcock The Final Escape episode is scheduled for tonight (3/31) at 11:30 PM. Talk about timing!

Set to record - wouldn't mind seeing that episode again.

Just saw a report about a 5 year old who fell off a 9 story balcony in Canada. The impact left a body shaped indentation in the ground, but he only broke both legs and is expected to make a full recovery.

Last weekend I didn't even drink one beer, so yes, the strange and bizarre does happen... ;)

Lets get factual. Last week a passenger jet saw satellite debris MILES away. BFD!
Am I attempting to communicate with some kinda robotic plant from the wierdo LOST universe?

but it still happened, and only last week. 40 seconds difference and it would have been "passenger jet hit by satellite!" Would it have changed how we view the world? No, it would just have been an unlucky coincidence. You can go back through the archives of Fortean Times and find weirder stuff. The Tunguska event, rains of fish and frogs, ball lightning moving through houses ... that stuff exists in our world. But it doesn't make it automatically change the nature of physics.

You are getting hung up on the same minutiae that you were complaining about others arguing about! Unless you can find any events in the show that indicate things in the Lost world outside of the island work differently, there's no reason for viewers to not expect them to. Until the show explains itself viewers can assume that if they like.

The biggest question with Hurley's meteor for me, is not that it struck his restaurant, but why it didn't totally demolish the entire area. But it might not have been a real meteor at all. It could have been conjured up by the magic box just for Hurley ...

This whole Billy Dee Williams discussion is just incredible! The cast of 'LOST' is "real" in the show. Nikki's character is/was an actress prior to arriving on the island. Prior to arriving on the island she played a part in a TV show called "Expose" playing the role of "Corvette" alongside another actor who happened to be Billy Dee Williams, who was ALSO playing a role ("Mr. Rashad aka/"The Cobra") in said TV show (as a character other than himself). Am I missing something here???

On another note, the 'numbers' haven't been seen in some time. I'm surprised that they didn't show up on the clap-board (clapper?) in the Nikki TV wrap scene (with the exception of "15"). Earlier in the series they were all over the place. Any speculation here as to why they aren't prominent anymore?
Yeah, I'm not sure what the hangup with Billy Dee is, either. The scene took place behind the scenes of a TV show. After the director said cut, Billy Dee played himself. During the fictional TV show scene, he was portraying a character named Mr. Rashad, who was also "The Cobra". He was portraying himself playing a character by a completely different name. I don't get how this is a problem...

As far as the numbers, that's a complaint I have lately. I liked looking for them, along with cameos from other cast members. Who cares if there's no more hatch? Why would the references suddenly disapear from past events because the hatch goes away. Bring back the numbers!

Even the Boston Red Sox "played" themselves when they showed them winning the series.

Locke's progeny, perhaps?

"FIVE-YEAR OLD BOY SURVIVES NINE-STORY FALL OFF BALCONY:"

http://www.therecord.com/home_page_main_story/home_page_main_story_999736.html

40 seconds difference and it would have been "passenger jet hit by satellite!"
About 30 years ago, I decided to go to a small remote Park to get away from my congested apartment and wax my car. I was kneeling by the left rear fender polishing away and moved to polish the trunk. One second later, and I mean one second, a car backed into that same fender; it grazed my leg, as I was moving. If I hadn’t moved I would have been crushed. One second, one year, one decade, it doesn’t matter. If it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen. Incidents like this make nice dramatic stories, but in the end it becomes an if story, and we all have dozens of if stories in our lives.

About 30 years ago, I decided to go to a small remote Park to get away from my congested apartment and wax my car. I was kneeling by the left rear fender polishing away and moved to polish the trunk. One second later, and I mean one second, a car backed into that same fender; it grazed my leg, as I was moving. If I hadn’t moved I would have been crushed. One second, one year, one decade, it doesn’t matter. If it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen. Incidents like this make nice dramatic stories, but in the end it becomes an if story, and we all have dozens of if stories in our lives.In the days of my yout... after I dumped my motorcycle a couple of times... I stopped riding them. ;)

Most of us have a few 'if stories' in our lives. They may teach us something about high risk behaviour, even if others appear to happily be getting away with doing the same thing. I have various similar stories regarding (at different times) motorcycles, hitchhiking, college beer parties, and many others.

But I hope there isn't now an airplane pilot in the world with a new space station phobia. We also have to learn when NOT to learn from isolated experiences.

- Tom

Even the Boston Red Sox "played" themselves when they showed them winning the series.

I guess that's where folks felt LOST jumped the shark having those real world people break that famous fourth wall law of physics.

You joke, but if the Red Sox won in the Lost universe, and they hadn't in reality - there would be many looking at that with more skepticism than surviving the plane crash or a shape shifting smoke monster.

Actually, just the fact that Jack believed it could be construed as the height of ignorance or gullibility - despite its truth. ;)

Just out of curiousity, have the others ever spoken about the numbers? (Except Ben saying he didn't enter any) Or have the numbers disappeared from the story line, like Walt's powers or the black & white stones?

- Tom

About 30 years ago, I decided to go to a small remote Park to get away from my congested apartment and wax my car. I was kneeling by the left rear fender polishing away and moved to polish the trunk. One second later, and I mean one second, a car backed into that same fender; it grazed my leg, as I was moving. If I hadn’t moved I would have been crushed. One second, one year, one decade, it doesn’t matter. If it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen. Incidents like this make nice dramatic stories, but in the end it becomes an if story, and we all have dozens of if stories in our lives.

Did you kill the person who backed into your freshly-polished car?

I would...

Did you kill the person who backed into your freshly-polished car?

I would...
It was an old lady driving with her husband. I was extremely thankful to be alive and too stunned and shaken to do anything. She apologized profusely and said she didn’t see me. We were the only two cars in this big parking lot and she happens to back into me exactly where I was kneeling. The odds were just too incredible. I purposely went to this Park to get away from stuff like this and look what happened. When your time is up, its up, and when it isn’t, it isn’t. :)

Did you notice a Dharma bumper-sticker on her vehicle? And did a guy named Desmond push you out of the way? So many questions, so few answers......

It was an old lady driving with her husband. I was extremely thankful to be alive and too stunned and shaken to do anything. She apologized profusely and said she didn’t see me. We were the only two cars in this big parking lot and she happens to back into me exactly where I was kneeling. The odds were just too incredible. I purposely went to this Park to get away from stuff like this and look what happened. When your time is up, its up, and when it isn’t, it isn’t. :)

ugh, I hate old people :D especially when they attempt to drive

Did she at least offer to pay for it?

Did you notice a Dharma bumper-sticker on her vehicle? And did a guy named Desmond push you out of the way? So many questions, so few answers......

No. But the little old lady said her car hadn’t been running well since she put old gas in it, and kept mumbling something about being unlucky ever since she won the lottery. ;)

ugh, I hate old people :D especially when they attempt to drive


Molasses comes to mind. :)

Did she at least offer to pay for it?
Insurance.

You guys are right about Billy Dee of course. I was just puttin y'all on for an early April Fool's joke. Special guest stars show up playing themselves all the time in most of the series dramas I watch.

It does kinda make you go WTF there for a second when it happens. but I get right back in to the story pretty fast. I hardly even think hey I'm just watching a fictional story here, made up by those writer guys.

Insurance.
Yours or theirs?

If you have the Chiller channel (D*) the Alfred Hitchcock The Final Escape episode is scheduled for tonight (3/31) at 11:30 PM. Talk about timing!
It was also just on. Good stuff. The perfect escape...... ;)

I don't think it's that cut and dried. As we've already seen from the last few pages, the Lost real world and the "real" world are meant to exist in the same universe. So the physical rules of the real world in Lost based on what we've seen should appear "normal".



the only things that we've seen in the outside world are coincidences and bad luck. I don't recall seeing anything that obviously changes our perception of the way the Lost real world works. Everything we've seen happen isn't bending any laws of science and nature. Even the meteor smashing Hurley's restaurant. Highly unlikely and a huge coincidence? Yes. Physically impossible? No.


Walt's powers did SEEM to manifest while still in Australia. If he indeed has powers, or if we were just meant to think so, noone knows.

I don't think it's that cut and dried. As we've already seen from the last few pages, the Lost real world and the "real" world are meant to exist in the same universe. So the physical rules of the real world in Lost based on what we've seen should appear "normal".

The island is different. From the first episode we already saw that the island exhibits physical differences to the real world. Magnetic anomalies, walking dead, strange experiments, Smoky the monster, people being unparalyzed etc. What happens on the island has the excuse that it's a central hub for weird and inexplicable crap.

Same goes for everything on the island. Anything with a Dharma logo doesn't have to obey the real world rules. It might look normal but it doesn't have to be. Dharma [possibly] built a magnetic containment chamber, ultrasonic weapon fence and some kind of island shield ... who knows what other whacky creations they made or things that they changed. Same for the spiders. They look like a typical species but we already know the island was used for animal experiments. It could be home to all sorts of genetically modified creatures.

But ...

the only things that we've seen in the outside world are coincidences and bad luck. I don't recall seeing anything that obviously changes our perception of the way the Lost real world works. Everything we've seen happen isn't bending any laws of science and nature. Even the meteor smashing Hurley's restaurant. Highly unlikely and a huge coincidence? Yes. Physically impossible? No.

That doesn't mean the characters themselves cannot be physically different in the real world. We know there's something different about Locke, we've seen it. So it's still possible that he could survive the fall because he might not be "normal." Any of the characters could have unrevealed abilities that make them different so they could operate outside the rules even in the real world.

Until we see a Dharma scientist pointing a ray gun at one of them in a flashback or revealing a big magnetic beam gun and Smoky monster birthing chamber under Washington, I think it's perfectly acceptable to want the real off-island world to still function as people expect it to.

You mean like a giant green bird that says, "HURLEY."


Sorry to beat a dead horse: the rant I posted the other day has nothing to do with people thinking Lost or any episodes are great or that they suck. Its how the person comes across. I just can't stand it when someone explains why they hated the episode in a way that makes it sound like you are an idiot or that you don't know what good TV is.. That is all.

It was an old lady driving with her husband. I was extremely thankful to be alive and too stunned and shaken to do anything. She apologized profusely and said she didn’t see me. We were the only two cars in this big parking lot and she happens to back into me exactly where I was kneeling. The odds were just too incredible. I purposely went to this Park to get away from stuff like this and look what happened. When your time is up, its up, and when it isn’t, it isn’t. :)

So true. I came within fractions of a millimeter of losing my left leg in a motorcycle accident where I was PARKED under a bridge and just getting off the bike. Walked away from that one with no more than a bruise. Then almost got crushed by a crashing car while photographing a race at Road Atlanta 4 years later. Car landed right where I had been sitting not even seconds before! It ain't my time yet.....

So true. I came within fractions of a millimeter of losing my left leg in a motorcycle accident where I was PARKED under a bridge and just getting off the bike. Walked away from that one with no more than a bruise. Then almost got crushed by a crashing car while photographing a race at Road Atlanta 4 years later. Car landed right where I had been sitting not even seconds before! It ain't my time yet.....
Charlie?!?!!?!?

If Desmond was there, I didn't see him. :D

Is tonight's episode new?




(That's still funny, right? :D )

Is Lost on tonight? Well that means... it's the "highlight" of my week! :D

Yes, I know I'm pathetic. :p

A number of spoilers deleted.

Sorry to beat a dead horse: the rant I posted the other day has nothing to do with people thinking Lost or any episodes are great or that they suck. Its how the person comes across. I just can't stand it when someone explains why they hated the episode in a way that makes it sound like you are an idiot or that you don't know what good TV is.. That is all.It's all in the presentation ;).

Well, I just got caught up and it seems the thread has settled back to a warmer and fuzzier place once again. Just in time for another ep so we can start all over again I suppose :p. (gleefully rubbing my hands together and in my best Mr. Burns) "How convenient".


ron

(gleefully rubbing my hands together and in my best Mr. Burns) "How convenient".


Not to nitpick, but I think Mr. Burns says "excellent" while someone else (from SNL I think, maybe Dana Carvey as the "Church Lady") says "How convenient".... :D

no 5.1 ota in orlando :mad:

Not to nitpick, but I think Mr. Burns says "excellent" while someone else (from SNL I think, maybe Dana Carvey as the "Church Lady") says "How convenient".... :DDoh!! :rolleyes: They say the memory is the first thing to go... and mine left a long time ago!


ron

Man these people are dense. No one is thinking that for the 1000th time maybe things aren't as they appear and they didn't actually "leave Juliette behind"? Especially since she had a friggin key to the handcuffs.

Hurley conned the con. Priceless!

Man these people are dense. No one is thinking that for the 1000th time maybe things aren't as they appear and they didn't actually "leave Juliette behind"? Especially since she had a friggin key to the handcuffs.

Shhh! It'll be our little secret!

Can't get enough of seeing Kate. Lord!

Help me out here:
They (the Others) left. They didn't take any care to seal up the buildings prep the buildings for a long leave of absence (that I could see). Left the people inside, knocked out. Electricity still running--the fence was still working.
So...why go back?? Why not move the Losties to this camp? Electricity, running water, plenty of goods and materials(tools?) left behind. Perhaps medical facilities of some sort, maybe some supplies? And let's not overlook this, the fence protects them from the monster!
Is there some reason to abandon this camp? Or is it just a plot loophole, like Jack being out cold for soooooo much longer than Kate and Juliet.
I can't believe they would think the Others are returning, they certainly made no point of even discussing it.

Hurley conned the con. Priceless!

Yeah; pretty much had that figured out. Great job Hurley! (though do we really want to see "the softer side" of Sawyer?)

Man these people are dense. No one is thinking that for the 1000th time maybe things aren't as they appear and they didn't actually "leave Juliette behind"? Especially since she had a friggin key to the handcuffs.

She explained that she had done that to try to make Kate take her with her...I generally don't think this is a play by the Others...Juliette wanted off the island...she did not want to be a part of their group any longer. Therefore, Ben has dismissed her but since she can't go back to the real world, she is in a sense homeless....

While I thought the episode was great (especially with Hurley conning Sawyer, though who didn't see that coming?), I still think the previous episode with Paulo and Nikki was better...haha

Great stuff though...there's definitely a reason why Lost is still one of the best shows on TV...and some great foreshadowing/setup for future episodes (Sawyer's child)...Hurley setting up Sawyer to be a leader which won't last long...

This episode sucked! (kicks dog) You people suck! (throws things). LOST sucks! The writers suck! (just hoping to get it over with early this week).

This episode sucked! (kicks dog) You people suck! (throws things). LOST sucks! The writers suck! (just hoping to get it over with early this week).

TAKE IT TO THE 24 THREAD! WHERE IT ACTUALLY DESERVES IT!

TAKE IT TO THE 24 THREAD! WHERE IT ACTUALLY DESERVES IT!

I forgot the :rolleyes: and the :D

lol oh I know...

Any episode with Kate and Juliette wrestling wet and covered with mud is a keeper.
Said it before, but the smoke monster really, really reminds me of the Forbidden Planet Id construct.
Sayid is SO not trusting Juliette.

Smokey is back!!! I love his guest appearances..... makes me wonder when we'll see his/her/its backstory.... :)

Any episode with Kate and Juliette wrestling wet and covered with mud is a keeper.
Said it before, but the smoke monster really, really reminds me of the Forbidden Planet Id construct.
Sayid is SO not trusting Juliette.

When has Sayid ever been trusting? :)

Great episode!

Best part is Kate trying to stop Juliette and she has to basically say "ah f it" and blow her secret to save her skin and get on the other side of the fence and turn it on.

So where did the others go? Back to the Hydra station?

Smokey is back!!! I love his guest appearances..... makes me wonder when we'll see his/her/its backstory.... :)

I want to know if Juliette is telling the truth when she says they don't know what it is...interesting that she really did seem to be scared of it...

So where did the others go? Back to the Hydra station?

I'm going to say no since the Losties know where that is too

So, what's up with the flash bulb effect from smokey?
How come hiding in the tree trunks is sanctuary from smokey?
For those believing that smokey dirtnaps anyone unreconciled with their past transgressions, Kate seems to have some 'splainin to do.

Smokey is back!!! I love his guest appearances..... makes me wonder when we'll see his/her/its backstory.... :)
:D :D :D

One thing I don't get, when Smokey was attacking them Juliet was plainly scared and seemed not to know what was going on. Then, later she powered up the fence and she made the comment that "it" didn't like their fence ans Smokey was repelled. So, if she knew the fence would stop it, she was aware of it's existence, so was she faking while hiding in the tree?

On another note, what are the odds that Sayer was the guy Kate's friend was talking about who took her money and left her preg.?

On another note, what are the odds that Sayer was the guy Kate's friend was talking about who took her money and left her preg.?

Um, duh! In the recap before the show, it showed her clearly being Sawyer's girlfriend. Looks like you missed that part ;)

One thing I don't get, when Smokey was attacking them Juliet was plainly scared and seemed not to know what was going on. Then, later she powered up the fence and she made the comment that "it" didn't like their fence ans Smokey was repelled. So, if she knew the fence would stop it, she was aware of it's existence, so was she faking while hiding in the tree?She may have been half faking it. Faking that she had never seen it before, but being truthful in her fear. After activating the fence, she said something to the effect of "we don't know what it is," so therefore she would likely be afraid of it, knowing what it's capable of.

On another note, what are the odds that Sayer was the guy Kate's friend was talking about who took her money and left her preg.?No odds - as the last poster stated, that was the woman Sawyer conned. In one of the Sawyer flashback episodes, when Saywer is in prison, they tell him about his child, and he gives his money away to her.

Help me out here:
They (the Others) left. They didn't take any care to seal up the buildings prep the buildings for a long leave of absence (that I could see). Left the people inside, knocked out. Electricity still running--the fence was still working.
So...why go back?? Why not move the Losties to this camp? Electricity, running water, plenty of goods and materials(tools?) left behind. Perhaps medical facilities of some sort, maybe some supplies? And let's not overlook this, the fence protects them from the monster!
Is there some reason to abandon this camp? Or is it just a plot loophole, like Jack being out cold for soooooo much longer than Kate and Juliet.
I can't believe they would think the Others are returning, they certainly made no point of even discussing it.

That very thing was driving me nuts at the end. Why not just move the camp there? Real houses, more books for Sawyer to read, electricity......SHOWERS! For that matter, shouldn't Kate and Juilet have taken one before heading out....?

Can't get enough of seeing Kate. Lord!

that shirt was a lil extra tight huh :D (need a drool smily)

another crazy thing was neither of them mentioned the smoke to Jack and Sayid. you know its there but ya gonna go right back out :confused:

As for everyone leaving, think about Locke not actually blowing the sub up and the writers saying there's other others...

That very thing was driving me nuts at the end. Why not just move the camp there? Real houses, more books for Sawyer to read, electricity......SHOWERS! For that matter, shouldn't Kate and Juilet have taken one before heading out....?

Seems they get a lot of their food from the ocean and apparently the others camp is a long hike inland. Plus, they wouldn't be able to look for ships if they move. I do agree that Kate and Juilet should have bathed each other, uuh,.... gotten cleaned up before they left.

okay, I may be missing something here but can someone explain what exactly happened tonight. Right now I'm seeing it like this:

Juliette gets left behind and decides to drag unconscious Kate into the jungle, handcuff them both together and pretend to be unconscious so Kate can wake up first - just to bond with Kate so that she will be sympathetic enough to take her back to the beach?

okay, I may be missing something here but can someone explain what exactly happened tonight. Right now I'm seeing it like this:

Juliette gets left behind and decides to drag unconscious Kate into the jungle, handcuff them both together and pretend to be unconscious so Kate can wake up first - just to bond with Kate so that she will be sympathetic enough to take her back to the beach?

Yea that makes no since to me either. Didn't she know that Jack was still at the camp. She had already bonded with him and should have known he wouldn't leave her behind. Something fishy is going on here.

Well, the other possibility was that they were placed in the jungle for "crimes against the Others" and were expected to be taken care of by Smokey. :)

Man these people are dense. No one is thinking that for the 1000th time maybe things aren't as they appear and they didn't actually "leave Juliette behind"? Especially since she had a friggin key to the handcuffs.What's the point? The Others seem to know everything there is to know about the Losties... complete with Dossiers. When they want someone to join their little group they kidnap, brainwash, coerce or just invite the chosen one (e.g. Locke) to come along.Smokey is back!!! I love his guest appearances..... makes me wonder when we'll see his/her/its backstory.... :) Don't give the Producers any bright ideas... or we'll never see this story move along.

If they move to the abandon camp, they might not need to look for a boat --something they haven't seen since they crashed anyway.

Those huts have electrical wiring and plenty of small electronics kicking around, plus a source of power someplace. I'd bet Sayyid could rig something up, a simple transmitter good enough for morse code and an antenna.

Add to that protection from Smokey.

Add to that tools, any real tools, would be extremely useful in making a better boat then michael, Jin, and Sawyer first attempted to escape on. A few real axes and maybe a saw or two goes a long way when you have a lot of time and wood on your hands.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some basic med supplies like syringes, scalpels, decent lighting, antibiotics etc kicking around as well. It would be a real benefit to Jack just to be able to do a blood tranfusion or basic amputation (ala Boone).

Weapons could be improvised using the basic tools that are sure to be left behind: bow and arrows etc. Get those surveillance cameras up and running, learn all about the security systems, find all/any documentation on the Others.

Whatever downside to the camp really seems greatly outweighed by the upside.

As for Locke, I'm not 100% sure that he's totally joined the Others. I know he wants to stay on the Island, but also think he's planning on working from the inside to help out the Losties. It totally strikes me the Locke's mystical Island agenda is waaay above anything the Others have to offer by his submission. I think he intends to use them, and discard them, and in the process get the Losties off the Island. Something about his facial expression when Kate asked if Russeau had been captured, kinda gave me the impression he was sort of hiding that from the Others but knew they were listening.

two weeks ago Ben was quite pleased that Jack and Juliette had to stay on the island when Locke blew up the Yellow Submarine. This week he leaves them all behind. Have they been programmed to go postal when back on the beach?

Still doesn't explain why Juliette was in the jungle with a key however.

I don't think it has been decided that they won't return to the compound. But obviously, they need to go to the beach to at least give the rest of the Losties the option... I don't think they would dare split up a group of 4 and send two to the beach while two stay behind at the compound...

Ben, Tom and the rest of the Others probably just went back to the Hydra Station. Looks like the whole community basically packs up and goes over there for "research" periodically, or whatever they do over there. And so, they'll be coming back (so the Losties can't really occupy the barracks villiage). Since the sub is gone, they can't leave the 2 islands permanently anymore.

And Juliette is clearly (or, at least as clear as things get on this show) a plant. Ben knows that Jack has bonded with her, so she'll make the perfect spy, right there in the Losties midst and with their leader to protect her. At least until Sayid gets his hands on her... next week from the previews, apparently. Perhaps another Juliette flashback episode?

Maybe they all went over to the magic box to have Locke ask for a new sub and a new and magneticly shielded sonar buoy.

So why didn't Smokey just fly over the fence?

So why didn't Smokey just fly over the fence?

The "field", whatever it is, probably extends vertically between the posts. If Smokey was a smart monster, it would have squeezed over the top of the post itself, apparently a safe zone, like Kate et.al. did a couple of weeks ago.

Any episode with Kate and Juliette wrestling wet and covered with mud is a keeper.

Made me smile!!!


Sayid is SO not trusting Juliette.

Indeed!

If they move to the abandon camp, they might not need to look for a boat --something they haven't seen since they crashed anyway.

Those huts have electrical wiring and plenty of small electronics kicking around, plus a source of power someplace. I'd bet Sayyid could rig something up, a simple transmitter good enough for morse code and an antenna.

Add to that protection from Smokey.

Add to that tools, any real tools, would be extremely useful in making a better boat then michael, Jin, and Sawyer first attempted to escape on. A few real axes and maybe a saw or two goes a long way when you have a lot of time and wood on your hands.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some basic med supplies like syringes, scalpels, decent lighting, antibiotics etc kicking around as well. It would be a real benefit to Jack just to be able to do a blood tranfusion or basic amputation (ala Boone).

Weapons could be improvised using the basic tools that are sure to be left behind: bow and arrows etc. Get those surveillance cameras up and running, learn all about the security systems, find all/any documentation on the Others.

Whatever downside to the camp really seems greatly outweighed by the upside.

As for Locke, I'm not 100% sure that he's totally joined the Others. I know he wants to stay on the Island, but also think he's planning on working from the inside to help out the Losties. It totally strikes me the Locke's mystical Island agenda is waaay above anything the Others have to offer by his submission. I think he intends to use them, and discard them, and in the process get the Losties off the Island. Something about his facial expression when Kate asked if Russeau had been captured, kinda gave me the impression he was sort of hiding that from the Others but knew they were listening.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Instead we get Jack saying "Let's grab our stuff and go. Certainly there is nothing of value in this town, or even any possible clues that may have been left behind. We will certainly not want to look around at all."

I hope I'm wrong, but I predict they also tell no one at the beach that there is an entire town complete with houses, electricity, running water, etc.

that shirt was a lil extra tight huh :D (need a drool smily)

And the jeans...


another crazy thing was neither of them mentioned the smoke to Jack and Sayid. you know its there but ya gonna go right back out :confused:

That seemed incredulous to me too; like it never happened. ???

That very thing was driving me nuts at the end. Why not just move the camp there? Real houses, more books for Sawyer to read, electricity......SHOWERS! For that matter, shouldn't Kate and Juilet have taken one before heading out....?
And they should have done it together! Just one more reason why Lost's 4th Season should be carried by one of the premium uncensored cable/sat networks, instead of ABC. ;)

The "field", whatever it is, probably extends vertically between the posts…..
Hmmm, maybe extend high enough for an airplane to slam into it? :)

BTW, I thought the cameo appearance by Mark Hamill in the opening sequence, was unnecessary and gratuitous. ;)

____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Maybe they all went over to the magic box to have Locke ask for a new sub and a new and magneticly shielded sonar buoy.

Whatever happened to Locke's father? I don't recall any further storyline after Ben revealed him to Locke at the end of the episode a couple weeks back.

That seemed incredulous to me too; like it [the Smokey attack] never happened. ???

Well, Smokey is out there all the time and they're always going into the forest for one reason or another. The thing is, Smokey has an agenda. It leaves them alone most of the time; if it wants you, it's going to get you (unless you can duck behind that handy-dandy sonic fence or have some dynamite you can drop down it's "cerebus vent"). And they have to get back to the beach; what would you have them do? Call a taxi?

Well, Smokey is out there all the time and they're always going into the forest for one reason or another. The thing is, Smokey has an agenda. It leaves them alone most of the time; if it wants you, it's going to get you (unless you can duck behind that handy-dandy sonic fence). And they have to get back to the beach; what would you have them do? Call a taxi?

I'm referring to the fact that Kate never even mentioned it to Jack & Sayid. And Kate basically doesn't know squat about Smokey. Would YOU turn around and go right back out there just minutes after having that experience?

I'm referring to the fact that Kate never even mentioned it to Jack & Sayid. And Kate basically doesn't know squat about Smokey. Would YOU turn around and go right back out there just minutes after having that experience?

Sure, this is LOST, remember? :) Juliette didn't seem to worried about it either; maybe she knew it got "wounded" by the fence and would be off pouting or something. :p

Whatever happened to Locke's father? I don't recall any further storyline after Ben revealed him to Locke at the end of the episode a couple weeks back.
Apparently Locke's cooperation with the Others has something to di with that...THis episode just didn't center around that issue....

nice tidbit on the `smoke' being controllable....


ANy guesses on the number of episodes Jullet survives since only Jack is on her side?

I do find her rather odd that Kate KNEW she was on camera with Sawyer but was naive enough to think the video feed/footage would never reach Jack. :rolleyes:

One thing I don't get, when Smokey was attacking them Juliet was plainly scared and seemed not to know what was going on. Then, later she powered up the fence and she made the comment that "it" didn't like their fence ans Smokey was repelled. So, if she knew the fence would stop it, she was aware of it's existence, so was she faking while hiding in the tree?

On another note, what are the odds that Sayer was the guy Kate's friend was talking about who took her money and left her preg.?

I took this as she figured out that the fence stopped it when smokey slammed into it and recoiled. She really had no idea what the monster was and was simply hoping the fence would stop it, which then got confirmed for her.

Sure, this is LOST, remember? :) Juliette didn't seem to worried about it either; maybe she knew it got "wounded" by the fence and would be off pouting or something. :p

Ah, but we don't know what Juliette really knows or doesn't know at this point.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Instead we get Jack saying "Let's grab our stuff and go. Certainly there is nothing of value in this town, or even any possible clues that may have been left behind. We will certainly not want to look around at all."

I hope I'm wrong, but I predict they also tell no one at the beach that there is an entire town complete with houses, electricity, running water, etc.

Actually didn't he say, "lets take anything of value"...you guys are making a lot of assumptions about the camp...plus its a two days hike, in the jungle...with the monster...you guys all make it sound like its a walk in the park to get 40 people there

Help me out here:
They (the Others) left. They didn't take any care to seal up the buildings prep the buildings for a long leave of absence (that I could see). Left the people inside, knocked out. Electricity still running--the fence was still working.
So...why go back?? Why not move the Losties to this camp? Electricity, running water, plenty of goods and materials(tools?) left behind. Perhaps medical facilities of some sort, maybe some supplies? And let's not overlook this, the fence protects them from the monster!
Is there some reason to abandon this camp? Or is it just a plot loophole, like Jack being out cold for soooooo much longer than Kate and Juliet.
I can't believe they would think the Others are returning, they certainly made no point of even discussing it.

Yeah, if I were Jack/Kate/Sayid I'd move the whole LOSTies camp to the Dharma Barracks. Power, Water, protection from Smokey the monster...

So, what's up with the flash bulb effect from smokey?
How come hiding in the tree trunks is sanctuary from smokey?
For those believing that smokey dirtnaps anyone unreconciled with their past transgressions, Kate seems to have some 'splainin to do.Kate seemed to think she was doing the right thing by taking out her evil stepdad; her ungrateful mother disagrees. Whether or not that passes the smoke test remains to be seen. She did ask Locke some really good questions, though a little too late.... :rolleyes:

I'm guessing Smokey only wanted one of the women, and couldn't do its deed without killing them both. It probably detected they were chained together. Kate did kick the crap out of Jules last night, and that alone was worth the price of admission.

I want to know if Juliette is telling the truth when she says they don't know what it is...interesting that she really did seem to be scared of it...

Well, Juliette has now killed someone, so she may be fair game for smokey.

But the Others/Dharma/Whoever, must have reason to be afraid of smokey too, because they keep the 'fence' on at all times.

Well, Smokey is out there all the time and they're always going into the forest for one reason or another. The thing is, Smokey has an agenda. It leaves them alone most of the time; if it wants you, it's going to get you (unless you can duck behind that handy-dandy sonic fence or have some dynamite you can drop down it's "cerebus vent"). And they have to get back to the beach; what would you have them do? Call a taxi?

And don't forget the handy banyan tree----because a smoke monster couldn't possibly squeeze between the aerial roots. :rolleyes: And that's a good thing.

One possibility for the flashes of light when Smokey was going after them in the trees:
Smokey is a security system of some sort. We don't know what it's protecting exactly, or who put it there, but it's possible that it's controlled by Ben's group. Of course, not everybody in the group would need to know of its existence, and Juliet seems kind of far down the chain of command. It's possible that every member of the others team is an "authorized person". The flashes of light could be the equivalent of a retinal scan to confirm that she was a member of the others.
There's a good chance that the Others didn't create or set up the smoke monster, but once they took over, they changed the "user accounts" of the system.

Seems they get a lot of their food from the ocean and apparently the others camp is a long hike inland. Plus, they wouldn't be able to look for ships if they move. I do agree that Kate and Juilet should have bathed each other, uuh,.... gotten cleaned up before they left.

I guess it depends...will the Dharma pallet drops continue now that the 'sky has gone purple'? If so, they would be fine there.

I'm a bit annoyed at this episode.
You're sitting there with Juliette who supposedly has been left behind by the Others and so should be pretty willing to share information at this point.
The first thing I would have done as Kate would be to ask a ton of questions. At least once arriving at the camp, I would think it's a good time and place to make a meal and chat about what the heck the Others are doing there, etc before heading back on a 2-day walk.
You would at least get a sense of whether or not Juliette is on your side or not.
(From the previews, it appears that Syed is going to interrogate Juliette next week, but, at least start asking questions now!)


Mitch

I'm guessing Smokey only wanted one of the women, and couldn't do its deed without killing them both. It probably detected they were chained together.

Ahhh, good call!

I took this as she figured out that the fence stopped it when smokey slammed into it and recoiled. She really had no idea what the monster was and was simply hoping the fence would stop it, which then got confirmed for her.

Actually, she commented that she HAD in fact known about the monster, just not what it was. She also said that they knew that it didn't like their fence. She was playing dumb earlier, trying to gain Kate's confidence.

The "field", whatever it is, probably extends vertically between the posts. If Smokey was a smart monster, it would have squeezed over the top of the post itself, apparently a safe zone, like Kate et.al. did a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah, I wondered about that myself. But a questin still bothers me from the trip the Losties made over the top of the post when they crawled up a tree trunk to get into the compound originally.

Inside the fence, there ar eno trees. How were they going to get back out? Certainly there was a good chance that the Others would be in hot pursuit as the Losties tried to escape whn they were done. The writers would NOT end that piece with a nice stealthy escape - no drama.

archiguy's reference to a "smart monster" brings up another point. It's highly unlikely Smokey is a random, uncontrolled apparition. We have seen it seemingly make choices (staring down Locke, using Eko as a dirt hammer, dancing with the ladies last night and either getting excited by them or taking pictures with its flash attachment). Juliette says they don't know what it is (let's assume for a minute we can trust this obvious plant or a pawn in one of Ben's mind games).

If Smokey IS being controlled and Juliette is telling the truth about not knowing what it is, that indicates someone is sitting at a set of controls and guiding its actions. This assumption supports the speculation about another, yet unrevealed, group on the island. We still don't know who Dharma is (ain't the Others). Eyepatch also referred to "the scientists" (are they Dharma?).

It looks like the losties and the Others are being played with by a third group. I still don't know what the whole "I was born on this island" (Ben) and the non-Dharma barracks mean, but the other things that the Others can't explain or aren't attributed to them indicate a third presence. Supplies are still being air dropped - feed the zoo creatures so the entertainment continues for the third group?

Finally - where did the losties get a bottle of A1 steak sauce? (it was on the picnic table at the end of the show). Has anyone EVER seen a bottle of steak sauce come out of an airplane galley? Also seems like a non-basic addition to supplies being parachuted in.

It's possible that every member of the others team is an "authorized person". The flashes of light could be the equivalent of a retinal scan to confirm that she was a member of the others.
There's a good chance that the Others didn't create or set up the smoke monster, but once they took over, they changed the "user accounts" of the system.

I agree with that. The flashes of light seemed to be some kind of identifying process, or a deep brain scan of some sort. Once it did that, it withdrew; perhaps to consider what it found (Kate had killed someone, and now Juliette, formerly a "protected" person, has too). After it had "crunched the numbers", it was coming back after...... Juliette, I'm guessing. She's no longer "good" in its eyes. She no longer belongs on the "list" of protected people.

I'm a bit annoyed at this episode.
You're sitting there with Juliette who supposedly has been left behind by the Others and so should be pretty willing to share information at this point.
The first thing I would have done as Kate would be to ask a ton of questions. At least once arriving at the camp, I would think it's a good time and place to make a meal and chat about what the heck the Others are doing there, etc before heading back on a 2-day walk.
You would at least get a sense of whether or not Juliette is on your side or not.
(From the previews, it appears that Syed is going to interrogate Juliette next week, but, at least start asking questions now!)


Mitch

Another odd fact that continues to manifest. Why don't the losties ask more pertinent questions when they have one of the Others 1 on 1? What's all this about? Who are you people? How did you get here? What do you do here? Etc.


While I'm in a question asking mode, does anyone know what Sayid was up to in the Other's camp while we were watching Jack, Kate and Locke over the last few episodes?

While I'm in a question asking mode, does anyone know what Sayid was up to in the Other's camp while we were watching Jack, Kate and Locke over the last few episodes?

I think he was trying to find the other's trail or any sign of where they might have gone.

...
archiguy's reference to a "smart monster" brings up another point. It's highly unlikely Smokey is a random, uncontrolled apparition. We have seen it seemingly make choices (staring down Locke, using Eko as a dirt hammer, dancing with the ladies last night and either getting excited by them or taking pictures with its flash attachment). Juliette says they don't know what it is (let's assume for a minute we can trust this obvious plant or a pawn in one of Ben's mind games).

If Smokey IS being controlled and Juliette is telling the truth about not knowing what it is, that indicates someone is sitting at a set of controls and guiding its actions. This assumption supports the speculation about another, yet unrevealed, group on the island. We still don't know who Dharma is (ain't the Others). Eyepatch also referred to "the scientists" (are they Dharma?).....

You know, in all the time I've watched Smokey, I was assuming he/she/it was self-operating. That is an interesting point, that Smokey may not be operating independently, but rather is under someone's control. That would raise a whole other set of questions.

Did I miss something here. After Locke leaves Kate, she wakes up to the gas coming into the room. She looks outside and all of the others are putting on gas masks. Why would every person need a gas mask on outside?

Did I miss something here. After Locke leaves Kate, she wakes up to the gas coming into the room. She looks outside and all of the others are putting on gas masks. Why would every person need a gas mask on outside?

I wondered about that too since only 1 gas bomb was tossed and that person was outside the building. The other thinhg I was curious about is why there was such a sense of urgency by the Others to get going. Looked like they had too run to catch a bus.

Did I miss something here. After Locke leaves Kate, she wakes up to the gas coming into the room. She looks outside and all of the others are putting on gas masks. Why would every person need a gas mask on outside?

Good question. Obviously I could see the person tossing the canister into the room, but everyone?

They did gas Jack and Juliette too, but probably just hurled them in through the window, in fact Juilette said they got her through the window.

Another note, I paused the DVR with the close up shot of the canister, and I could read the company, and it had a website listed. Visited their website, sure enough, ALS something, in Alabama. I couldn't tell if the website was that of a real buisness or one that ABC created. Sure looked real. I found the product they chucked, pretty standard tear/crowd control gas. Involutarily shuts eyelids, burns the eyes, etc. No permanent damage, nothing like mustard gas. or the stuff the Marines train with.

They did gas Jack and Juliette too, but probably just hurled them in through the window, in fact Juilette said they got her through the window.


I don't think they gassed Juliet. It doesn't make sense. She gets gassed, then wakes up and comes up with the plan to drag Kate out in the jungle and handcuff herself to her so they can bond? And why did Jack still not wake up until a day later. Remember they slept overnight after Smokey took their pictures through the trees, then walked all the way to camp and Jack is still sleeping? How could Juliet wake up so much quicker.. Its all bs and its part of their plan to get her to the Losties camp I think. She's obviously still lying.

I agree with the poster earlier who said why didn't Kate just start asking questions about why they are there, what they are doing, etc. to Juliet when they were handcuffed :mad: :mad:


Another note, I paused the DVR with the close up shot of the canister, and I could read the company, and it had a website listed. Visited their website, sure enough, ALS something, in Alabama. I couldn't tell if the website was that of a real buisness or one that ABC created. Sure looked real. I found the product they chucked, pretty standard tear/crowd control gas. Involutarily shuts eyelids, burns the eyes, etc. No permanent damage, nothing like mustard gas. or the stuff the Marines train with.

wow good for you.. thanks for sharing it with us!! :rolleyes:

That very thing was driving me nuts at the end. Why not just move the camp there? Real houses, more books for Sawyer to read, electricity......SHOWERS! For that matter, shouldn't Kate and Juilet have taken one before heading out....?

No replenishable food source maybe? Oops, someone beat me to it. But hey ladies, how about a quick shower to get the mud off before heading back?

On Smokey:

This smoke monster was an awful lot bigger than the wisps we saw previously scurry accross the jungle and bigger than the smoke that came out of the vent after the dynamite was tossed by jack after pulling Locke out. Can it grow and shrink? More than one? Split into parts?

Great personal stuff in this episode:

Hurley playing Sawyer was great! Sawyer's line about Erin not being as wrinkly now...

Didn't you want to smack Locke after judging Kate and trusting the Others? You foolish, easy to dupe turkey! Besides, the Others have done enough bad things to make Kate look like a girl scout.

Next on the list of folks to smack was Kate's mother. He got drunk all the time and beat me and who knows what he did to you, Kate....but I loved him (enough to sell you out....hmmm about that insurance money)

If the Others gassed everyone at once, why was Jack still out the next day? And if Juliet is telling the truth that she too was gassed, how did she wake up long enough before Kate to set up the handcuff situation quite a distance from the village? And how did she get Kate out there? There are way too many loose ends here, even for Lost.