If the Others gassed everyone at once, why was Jack still out the next day? And if Juliet is telling the truth that she too was gassed, how did she wake up long enough before Kate to set up the handcuff situation quite a distance from the village? And how did she get Kate out there? There are way too many loose ends here, even for Lost.

The fact that Jack was still out didn't bother me. He had collapsed inside his relatively non-ventilated house, in which the gas would have lingered exposing him to it more. Kate was outside in the jungle breathing pure air. Same as with the spiders from last week, Kate's metabolism may be faster than Jacks, allowing her body to clear the toxins better.

Good questions on Juliet, though.

The fact that nobody asks any questions of anyone is driving me crazy! (And has been since season 1!)

Ben, Tom and the rest of the Others probably just went back to the Hydra Station. Looks like the whole community basically packs up and goes over there for "research" periodically, or whatever they do over there. And so, they'll be coming back (so the Losties can't really occupy the barracks villiage). Since the sub is gone, they can't leave the 2 islands permanently anymore.

And Juliette is clearly (or, at least as clear as things get on this show) a plant. Ben knows that Jack has bonded with her, so she'll make the perfect spy, right there in the Losties midst and with their leader to protect her. At least until Sayid gets his hands on her... next week from the previews, apparently. Perhaps another Juliette flashback episode?


question is, how will Ben and his crew get back to the other island ? Locke blew up the sub, they gave Michael and Walt the small boat to get away. Do they still have Desmond's boat ? When Locke confronted Ben in his room, Ben intimated that the sub was the only option to get off the island.

Whatever happened to Locke's father? I don't recall any further storyline after Ben revealed him to Locke at the end of the episode a couple weeks back.

that's gotta be among the main reasons why Locke left with Ben's crew

Did I miss something here. After Locke leaves Kate, she wakes up to the gas coming into the room. She looks outside and all of the others are putting on gas masks. Why would every person need a gas mask on outside?

Glad you brought that up; I wondered the same thing. It didn't make sense unless they were 'gassing' the entire compound, which they didn't. ???

Love all the theories -- I just wanted to chime in and say that last night was the first time we watched Lost OTA instead of via TW cable and WHOA, what a difference in quality. I had no idea how much better OTA HD would look compared to what our, now former, cable company pipes in.

What I want to know is how do Julia and the Others know so much about all of the crash survivors??

question is, how will Ben and his crew get back to the other island ? Locke blew up the sub, they gave Michael and Walt the small boat to get away. Do they still have Desmond's boat ? When Locke confronted Ben in his room, Ben intimated that the sub was the only option to get off the island.

They do have Desmond's boat, of course, but it's likely they have other small boats as well; we just haven't seen them. They probably use those to travel back and forth from the small island to the big one. And what Ben meant was that the sub was the only way to get off the islands and back to civilization across hundreds or thousands of miles of open ocean.

Finally - where did the losties get a bottle of A1 steak sauce? (it was on the picnic table at the end of the show). Has anyone EVER seen a bottle of steak sauce come out of an airplane galley? Also seems like a non-basic addition to supplies being parachuted in.

At the "boar luau" I thought I heard Sawyer say something like "...and it goes great with some Dharma A-1 Sauce...", which I took to mean it was either from the Swan (Hatch) supplies or the last airdrop.

In any case it's probably just another sneaky "product placement" ad!

They do have Desmond's boat, of course, but it's likely they have other small boats as well; we just haven't seen them. They probably use those to travel back and forth from the small island to the big one. And what Ben meant was that the sub was the only way to get off the islands and back to civilization across hundreds or thousands of miles of open ocean.
Don't forget the very large boat that was in the water when Jack was going to Ben's evil fortress to help him recover.

Not the best picture. It's pretty far away, but it looks like a big boat.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x09-stranger/2/stranger-cap-902.jpg

In any case it's probably just another sneaky "product placement" ad!

They've gotta be losing out on TONS of product placement money by using 'Dharma' brand everything.

Glad you brought that up; I wondered the same thing. It didn't make sense unless they were 'gassing' the entire compound, which they didn't. ???Or maybe they needed to pass through the gassed room. Maybe a tunnel through the floor where she was being held. Or maybe they needed them to gas the other girl.

Or maybe they needed to pass through the gassed room. Maybe a tunnel through the floor where she was being held. Or maybe they needed them to gas the other girl.

I thought there was the possiblity of "others" that we haven't 'seen' being gassed also (each of the ones with a mask assigned a different victim, say), but nobody else was found when Sayid checked the other houses.

If Smokey was a smart monster, it would have squeezed over the top of the post itself, apparently a safe zone, like Kate et.al. did a couple of weeks ago.If Smokey were truly smart, it could have assumed human form and pushed the dang buttons ( :mad: ), disabling the field. But I'll assume it's a dumb swarm.

...maybe in a spinoff of Lost: Lando the Lost?


Hehe Land of the Lost was one of my favorite "lost" shows of my childhood. Would probably look so phony now with its ancient special effects.

Didn't you want to smack Locke after judging Kate and trusting the Others? You foolish, easy to dupe turkey! Besides, the Others have done enough bad things to make Kate look like a girl scout.
No, Locke is probably well aware by now that virtually every room in the camp is monitored, and he was saying what he thought the 'Others' wanted to hear; and Kate probably realized this eventually as well.

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I don't think Cerberus is actively being remotely controlled. I also don't think it's truly "smart" in that it has total control of it's decision making either. I'm guessing it was originally pre-programmed to execute certain functions and it only has limited decision making capabilities related to those tasks. The idea that those functions may have been altered at some point is intriguing though.

It will be interesting to see what the actual deal is with the fence. I don't know that I buy the idea of the "force field" or whatever it is extending upward, but only between the posts. I didn't rewatch it yet but it almost seemed like as soon as smokey hit it and the sound went off that that repelled it as much as anything else maybe? I wonder if the fence was erected for a different purpose other than to keep smokey out, and they just happened to find that it also worked on it as well. The way Juliet said, "It doesn't like our fence" just made it seem that way to me...


ron

Smokey is back!!! I love his guest appearances..... makes me wonder when we'll see his/her/its backstory.... :)

That's actually a rather appealing idea: an episode entirely about Smokey (backstory too) would be great!

Ah, but we don't know what Juliette really knows or doesn't know at this point.
That's an understatement! ...about every character on the show

"Now you know what it feels like not to know what's going on." -Kate

That was a great line. But why didn't she ask Julliet any questions?????? argh...

that big boat is still there, no idea of Des's sailboat and I still have doubts on if the sub is really gone.

I'll watch again as usual but I dont think Julliet really knew about smokey.

that big boat is still there, no idea of Des's sailboat and I still have doubts on if the sub is really gone.

I'll watch again as usual but I dont think Julliet really knew about smokey.
Even though she said she did? How would she know the fence would protect them otherwise?

It will be interesting to see what the actual deal is with the fence. I don't know that I buy the idea of the "force field" or whatever it is extending upward, but only between the posts. I didn't rewatch it yet but it almost seemed like as soon as smokey hit it and the sound went off that that repelled it as much as anything else maybe? I wonder if the fence was erected for a different purpose other than to keep smokey out, and they just happened to find that it also worked on it as well. The way Juliet said, "It doesn't like our fence" just made it seem that way to me...


ron

I thought it was established the fence didn't extend upwards. I mean, they climbed over it afterall to get into the compound. So why Smokey can't fly over is a mystery to me.

I thought it was established the fence didn't extend upwards. I mean, they climbed over it afterall to get into the compound. So why Smokey can't fly over is a mystery to me.

The sonic barrier is broken only at the poles themselves. Otherwise, it must extend vertically higher than Smoky can fly. And, as I said in an earlier post, Smoky isn't smart enough to squeeze over the posts.

I still have doubts on if the sub is really gone.

Me. too. The previews for next week showed a glimpse of something that sure looked like a conning tower.

I agree with the other posters about the village. Camping out on the beach can be fun for a few nights or a week, but these guys are now in like their fourth month of it? They don't even have the Swan hatch to take showers and do laundry anymore. I would certainly like to have the option to move at least. And any normal human being would know that. Jack's answer to Kate should have been "Go bring everyone else back here."

I definitely wanted to see Kate and Juliet take a shower, too.

Did anyone else also think that it was kind of odd that Juliet could kick Kate's @$$ when she surprised her with the pool cue, but succumbed easily when Kate came directly at her with just her fists? She had to be doggin' it.

But the question is why? The Others already knew everything there was to know about the Losties. What information can she be expected to get?

-Chris

That's actually a rather appealing idea: an episode entirely about Smokey (backstory too) would be great!

Totally. Hopefully seeing how Smokey was created (or even more fun---discovered) would be a hoot.

Finally - where did the losties get a bottle of A1 steak sauce? (it was on the picnic table at the end of the show). Has anyone EVER seen a bottle of steak sauce come out of an airplane galley? Also seems like a non-basic addition to supplies being parachuted in.
Go back and watch again, Sawyer specifically says " Dharma A1 Sauce"
Does anyone watch the show and enjoy it for what it is instead of nitpicking every minute detail?

Does anyone watch the show and enjoy it for what it is instead of nitpicking every minute detail?

If we did, what would be the point of this thread?

Go back and watch again, Sawyer specifically says " Dharma A1 Sauce"
Does anyone watch the show and enjoy it for what it is instead of nitpicking every minute detail?
Really? I thought he was giving a list of what was on the table: "Dharma, A-1 Sauce..." I thought he was referring to the beer as Dharma, much as we would refer to Bud or Coors or Miller (and just as tasty, especially since I'm sure that Dharma beer has been rotting for a while in a warm icechest!)

But to your point, I do recall that the A-1 sauce had a Dharma-ish logo on it. Not like the A-1 sauces you'll see at Outback or the likes.

She explained that she had done that to try to make Kate take her with her...I generally don't think this is a play by the Others...Juliette wanted off the island...she did not want to be a part of their group any longer. Therefore, Ben has dismissed her but since she can't go back to the real world, she is in a sense homeless....

Right, because in all their other 400 lies they were just straight up about it and didn't have any kind of fake story or reason for supposedly doing it that hid their true motives :rolleyes:

And the whole thing about Juliette wanting off the island would be a much less involved than dozens of other rouzes (sp?) that they've put together.

Not to say that that's necessarily the case, but that no one is thinking it - especially Kate who is supposedly buying her completely lame excuse for hiding the key - is a bit absurd and quite frankly were Juliette still in cahoots with the others to do something here it would be one of the least complex tricks they've played, yet still nobody is thinking it?

What's the point? The Others seem to know everything there is to know about the Losties... complete with Dossiers. When they want someone to join their little group they kidnap, brainwash, coerce or just invite the chosen one (e.g. Locke) to come along.Don't give the Producers any bright ideas... or we'll never see this story move along.

What's the point? What's the point to doing any of the dozens and dozens of things they've done?

What's the point in holding Kate in a cell for a week until she escapes, then catching her again and letting her go within a day? What's the point in handcuffing the two chicks together and then letting one of them have the key? With the others, "what's the point" certainly does not apply.

"Now you know what it feels like not to know what's going on." -Kate

That was a great line. But why didn't she ask Julliet any questions?????? argh...

What would be the point? Sayid did just that a few episodes back and all he got was evasive answers and riddles. The writers do more tap dancing around answering questions directly than they do on Dancing with the Stars.

If Smokey were truly smart, it could have assumed human form and pushed the dang buttons ( :mad: ), disabling the field. But I'll assume it's a dumb swarm.


The buttons were on the inside of the fence...Juliet ran through, waited for Kate, then turned the fence on.

They've gotta be losing out on TONS of product placement money by using 'Dharma' brand everything.
You should try some Dharma-brand products sometime. They're great, everything from corn flakes to motor oil. And they'll deliver them in bulk right to your backyard.

The buttons were on the inside of the fence...

Yes, and unless there's a keypad on each of the posts (anybody wanna go back to the episode where they crossed over the post and check?), convenient for them that they just happened to exit the jungle by the post with it on.

You should try some Dharma-brand products sometime. They're great, everything from corn flakes to motor oil. And they'll deliver them in bulk right to your backyard.

Can I get 'em online? There's no Dharma stores in my area yet.

When Locke went to say goodbye to Kate, he looked like he had been beaten up and his right hand was bandaged. My memory is probably failing me, but I don't remember him in that condition the last time we saw him. (After he blew up the "submarine").

Can I get 'em online? There's no Dharma stores in my area yet.

They deliver. Just make sure you have a large garden suitable for airdrops.

You'll have to wait until their online store is back up however. They had a really big server crash (someone pushed the wrong button) and the site is offline. ;)

When Locke went to say goodbye to Kate, he looked like he had been beaten up and his right hand was bandaged. My memory is probably failing me, but I don't remember him in that condition the last time we saw him. (After he blew up the "submarine").

Maybe he had a long-overdue discussion with his dad.

- Tom

It will be interesting to see what the actual deal is with the fence. I don't know that I buy the idea of the "force field" or whatever it is extending upward, but only between the posts. I didn't rewatch it yet but it almost seemed like as soon as smokey hit it and the sound went off that that repelled it as much as anything else maybe? I wonder if the fence was erected for a different purpose other than to keep smokey out, and they just happened to find that it also worked on it as well. The way Juliet said, "It doesn't like our fence" just made it seem that way to me...

ron

Perhaps a bigger potential plot hole is why didn't it go UNDER the fence? I mean it seems to generally travel underground most of the time, and only burst up through the ground when necessary.

"Now you know what it feels like not to know what's going on." -Kate

I believe the line was actually: "Welcome to the wonderful world of not knowing what the hell's going on."

Lost in a nutshell. :D

Perhaps a bigger potential plot hole is why didn't it go UNDER the fence? I mean it seems to generally travel underground most of the time, and only burst up through the ground when necessary.

Consider that the smoke monster could have gone over or under the fence, but after hitting the sonic blast was wounded or disoriented and had to scamper off like a dog that's been kicked.

Consider that the smoke monster could have gone over or under the fence, but after hitting the sonic blast was wounded or disoriented and had to scamper off like a dog that's been kicked.

Can't be. Juliette said: "All right. We don't know what it is but we know that it doesn't like out fences". So this isn't the first time it's had contact with the fence. An intelligent 'creature' would stay away from it, figure it out or try a different 'route' (ie, over or under). Another mystery.

Yes, and unless there's a keypad on each of the posts (anybody wanna go back to the episode where they crossed over the post and check?), convenient for them that they just happened to exit the jungle by the post with it on.

No, it was convenient for the story and to allow it to move along. This ain't real ya know?

Can't be. Juliette said: "All right. We don't know what it is but we know that it doesn't like out fences". So this isn't the first time it's had contact with the fence. An intelligent 'creature' would stay away from it, figure it out or try a different 'route' (ie, over or under). Another mystery.

she might not have fully known what it is but Ben or someone else might.

1 thing I noticed is that it came in 4 separate parts and left in 2. when it hit the wall, it spread out then left. maybe the sound is part of the defense too. found this pic on a fan site referring to the blast door map with Cerberus. kind of big so here's a link http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=260

One possibility for the flashes of light when Smokey was going after them in the trees:

It was taking pictures of the tight fitting tops. :)

No, it was convenient for the story and to allow it to move along. This ain't real ya know?

Oh.

When Locke went to say goodbye to Kate, he looked like he had been beaten up and his right hand was bandaged. My memory is probably failing me, but I don't remember him in that condition the last time we saw him. (After he blew up the "submarine").

He was beaten up the last time we saw him (when his father was revealed to him). He looked like he had improved a little since then.

Apparently they tortured him a bit after he blew up their sub.

A number of people seem to think that Smokey has the ability to read thoughts. Before last ep, there was really nothing to suggest that, IMO. I know this is Lost, but I still can't see this thing reading minds; not without some invasive process at least (inhalation?). It does seem to be a given Smokey can see in the dark.

Anyhoo, the fence's sonic blast ran him off, so that shoots down any theory it's supernatural. Unless the fence has a ghost detector. :rolleyes:

but I still can't see this thing reading minds; not without some invasive process at least (inhalation?).

I agree, reading minds without actual contact with the brain doesn't make any sense at all. ;)

I agree, reading minds without actual contact with the brain doesn't make any sense at all. ;)

Tell that to the Dharma "remote viewing" researchers, skeptic-boy. ;)

I liked the new Benchmade knife that juliette was carrying. Does everyone there have one? Why not an older looking knife? She never uses it? On an island?

A number of people seem to think that Smokey has the ability to read thoughts. Before last ep, there was really nothing to suggest that, IMO. I know this is Lost, but I still can't see this thing reading minds; not without some invasive process at least (inhalation?). It does seem to be a given Smokey can see in the dark.

Anyhoo, the fence's sonic blast ran him off, so that shoots down any theory it's supernatural. Unless the fence has a ghost detector. :rolleyes:

Except for the scene a while back where Eko meets the monster for the first time, and it comes up to him--the camera swings right through the monster cloud, and flashes of Eko's memories are shown in the cloud.

To me, Smokey is very animalistic. The Losties have hidden in trees before and he doesn’t appear to know how to deal with the situation. He’s come upon the electronic fence in the past and still hasn’t figured out the solution is to go over it, not through it. There are times he will sneak up on people and ‘sniff’ them before leaving. He will also show signs of extreme violence and unpredictability. If anyone goes too far into the forest he gets aggressive and becomes very territorial. Is he protecting something?

The fence shocked him, so that shows he is composed of energy. They should let Smokey into the compound and then turn on the power and trap him. Then create a plan, either prior to or after he is captured, to electrocute him to death. Maybe in time this is what they will do

A number of people seem to think that Smokey has the ability to read thoughts. Before last ep, there was really nothing to suggest that, IMO. I know this is Lost, but I still can't see this thing reading minds; not without some invasive process at least (inhalation?). It does seem to be a given Smokey can see in the dark.
I briefly re-watched this sequence last night, and my recollection is that smoky appeared immediately when Kate dislocated Juliet's shoulder, and Juliet screamed in pain. I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but rather than reading thoughts, I find it much more likely that smoky is an empath, and can be triggered or drawn to someone whose synapses are firing due to extreme physical or emotional pain.

Does anyone recall his other appearances well enough to remember if a similar event had taken place at those times? Wasn't Eko in serious physical pain due to the bear, prior to smoky's hammer blow?

_________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

The fence shocked him, so that shows he is composed of energy.
No, the SONIC fence stopped him. It did not shock him. It looked as though it hit a brick wall, but of sound waves. It does not mean "he" is composed of "energy."

The previews for next week showed a glimpse of something that sure looked like a conning tower.

From flashbacks of Juliet being brought to the island.

Does anyone recall his other appearances well enough to remember if a similar event had taken place at those times? Wasn't Eko in serious physical pain due to the bear, prior to smoky's hammer blow?


It's been hinted at by the producers that Smoky can read some or all of your mind and it collects information, that's what the Eko cloud of crosses was.

The first time Locke encountered it he was just walking through the jungle and stared it down. Other occasions people have just been walking, as was the case when they were all heading back from the Black Rock.

It could be that it's drawn to particular thoughts, I remember discussing that on another board. Someone suggested that it can detect those that are good or bad for the island. It takes action against those who may cause damage or have been "infected" by an idea or something physical. That idea might have been in this thread as well because I know this subject has come up before.

I don't think anyone else has mentioned it but I took the "flashes" that smokey inflicted on Juliette as the same "flashes" that we saw when Eko encountered it originally. His "flashes" showed images from his past, who knows what they showed to Juliette.

Whether that was "reading his/her mind" or not remains in question of course.

Can't be. Juliette said: "All right. We don't know what it is but we know that it doesn't like out fences". So this isn't the first time it's had contact with the fence. An intelligent 'creature' would stay away from it, figure it out or try a different 'route' (ie, over or under). Another mystery.

You're assuming a certain level of intelligence. While it does seem to be conscious in its movements and decisions, we don't know how "smart" it is. I like the analogy by Aliens above. It seems to behave like a dumb animal. Maybe, because it can't see a threat, it assumes that the fence is off and tries to run through it, perhaps despite having done this over and over again.

For example, my cat continues to climb to the top of our book shelves even though he's fallen and hurt himself more than a few times. He also still tries to eat plastic bags despite a bad scare a few months back where he almost died from intestinal blockage. Some "intelligent" creatures are just stupid and don't learn from their mistakes. :)

Some "intelligent" creatures are just stupid and don't learn from their mistakes. :)

They are often known as "politicians". :D

Thank you for not saying "voters", Archi. I know that's what you were really thinking. ;)

Seems they get a lot of their food from the ocean and apparently the others camp is a long hike inland. Plus, they wouldn't be able to look for ships if they move. I do agree that Kate and Juilet should have bathed each other, uuh,.... gotten cleaned up before they left.

Why would they need to look for ships? Any ships that come sailing by are going to either be the others or some poor soul who won't be able to leave, anyway.

Plus, There are probably a few people that will want to stay at the beach, so they could become in charge of fishing. Every other week someone could trek to the beach and pick up a supply of fish.

For that matter, they could net a bunch and build a breeding farm pond. Then they could go get those cows and have access to dairy stuff. If there's a bull in the mix, they could breed the cows, as well.

Thank you for not saying "voters", Archi. I know that's what you were really thinking. ;)

Hey, I'm all about keeping peace and tranquility in the LOST thread. I have too much fun here. ;)

...they could go get those cows and have access to dairy stuff. If there's a bull in the mix, they could breed the cows, as well.

Uh, didn't the cows get turned into hamburger when the house blew up?

You're assuming a certain level of intelligence. While it does seem to be conscious in its movements and decisions, we don't know how "smart" it is. I like the analogy by Aliens above. It seems to behave like a dumb animal. Maybe, because it can't see a threat, it assumes that the fence is off and tries to run through it, perhaps despite having done this over and over again.

Maybe it searches by sonar like a bat or dolphin. It can't see a physical object at the fence so it barrels forward and the sonic signal messes with it's echo location. That could be what those bizarre mechanical clicks and whirr noises are that it makes.

So why didn't Smokey just fly over the fence?
Okay, here's my theory:

Perhaps Smokey can only go so high. The fence is just over his limits. He can creep up and down stuff, but can't loft more than a certain amount.

He can't creep up the post because the field is runs across solid them on the inside. Kayt didn't hit it because she was well within the safe area when she dropped from the tree. On the other hand, once smokey cleared the top of the post, he would drop immediately into the danger zone and still be repelled.

Uh, didn't the cows get turned into hamburger when the house blew up?
We didn't see them, so they could have been safe. Perhaps Locke let them loose before joining the group.

Except for the scene a while back where Eko meets the monster for the first time, and it comes up to him--the camera swings right through the monster cloud, and flashes of Eko's memories are shown in the cloud.I know we've been over this before, but I've never really believed the creature read Eko's or anyone's mind. I also theorized that the images victims see are induced by an hallucinogen (pollen?) emitted from the swarm. Then again, the producers said there are no such nanobots. Actually, archiguy brought up the whole nano-theory, so it's all his fault. :mad:



You're assuming a certain level of intelligence. While it does seem to be conscious in its movements and decisions, we don't know how "smart" it is. I like the analogy by Aliens above. It seems to behave like a dumb animal. Maybe, because it can't see a threat, it assumes that the fence is off and tries to run through it, perhaps despite having done this over and over again.It was I who called it a dumb swarm....can't say I coined the phrase, though.



yeah I need to rewatch that part...I did see a brief glimpse of a plane which then turned into the dove....

some people think Ecko was planning on building a church (why he was marking trees)...I dunno...any thoughts?The same grove that Kate and Jules hid behind? Holy water? Now it kinda crosses over into the supernatural again, which the producers have denied.... :rolleyes:

While I'm in a question asking mode, does anyone know what Sayid was up to in the Other's camp while we were watching Jack, Kate and Locke over the last few episodes?
He was handcuffed to a swingset in a backyard.

I liked the new Benchmade knife that juliette was carrying. Does everyone there have one? Why not an older looking knife? She never uses it? On an island?
I believe it was a Kershaw http://www.kershawknives.com/products.php?brand=kershaw

It was either this one or very similar.

http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=41

The only reason I noticed is because I have the same knife. ;)

In the talks about if the Losties should stay at the barracks or return to the beach you guys make it sound like the barracks area is nowhere near water where they can fish. I would disagree because the barracks are not that far from there was the Sub that Locke blew up - so there must be some water real near by.

Okay, here's my theory:

Perhaps Smokey can only go so high. The fence is just over his limits. He can creep up and down stuff, but can't loft more than a certain amount.


the only problem with that theory is that way back in episode one, Smoky rips Greg Grunberg from the cockpit of the nose section. And that was much higher up than the fence.

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/f/f6/Frontplane.jpg

In the talks about if the Losties should stay at the barracks or return to the beach you guys make it sound like the barracks area is nowhere near water where they can fish. I would disagree because the barracks are not that far from there was the Sub that Locke blew up - so there must be some water real near by.

I would assume that if the Others made that their home compound, there would be access to all the basic necessities.

Did I miss something here. After Locke leaves Kate, she wakes up to the gas coming into the room. She looks outside and all of the others are putting on gas masks. Why would every person need a gas mask on outside?


They had to go into the building to retrieve Kate and drag her out into the jungle. If Juliet was gassed (she probably wasn't) same thing.

Okay, here's my theory:

Perhaps Smokey can only go so high. The fence is just over his limits. He can creep up and down stuff, but can't loft more than a certain amount.


the only problem with that theory is that way back in episode one, Smoky rips Greg Grunberg from the cockpit of the nose section. And that was much higher up than the fence.



Also, IIRC, Smokey did a pretty good imitation of The Flying Wallendas when he did the beat-down on Eko.

I agree, reading minds without actual contact with the brain doesn't make any sense at all. ;)

Well, there goes Greg Grunberg superpower on Heroes :eek: .

No, the SONIC fence stopped him.

REJECTED! :)

.... For that matter, shouldn't Kate and Juilet have taken one before heading out....?

Yes! I was kidding with my wife that the next the scene after Kate & Juliet got back to the Others hideaway would be them showering...together. :D

Perhaps a bigger potential plot hole is why didn't it go UNDER the fence? I mean it seems to generally travel underground most of the time, and only burst up through the ground when necessary.I think when you see it popping up or going underground it's using one of the "cerberus vents" that are referenced on the hatch map. I don't think it just dives through the dirt/rock...

A couple more reason why the Losties might prefer the beach to the compound: excellent surfing, lots of sand to run between the toes and much better sunset views ;)



ron

Maybe it searches by sonar like a bat or dolphin. It can't see a physical object at the fence so it barrels forward and the sonic signal messes with it's echo location. That could be what those bizarre mechanical clicks and whirr noises are that it makes.

I like this theory. A lot.

I like this theory. A lot.

It could also explain why being in the middle of lots of thin trees offers a seemingly safe hiding place. The trees confuse it and it can't pick out human shapes clearly.

REJECTED! :)

REJECTED!!!! :) snicker snicker

Maybe it searches by sonar like a bat or dolphin. It can't see a physical object at the fence so it barrels forward and the sonic signal messes with it's echo location. That could be what those bizarre mechanical clicks and whirr noises are that it makes.The sounds smokey makes are nearly as cool as the way it looks/acts. Even with as little as we've seen of it so far, it's got to be one of the best "creatures" ever on TV. It's backstory would be sweet.


ron

The sounds smokey makes are nearly as cool as the way it looks/acts. Even with as little as we've seen of it so far, it's got to be one of the best "creatures" ever on TV. It's backstory would be sweet.


Unfortunately they've built it up to be something so cool and discredited so many acceptable ideas that when they do reveal it's origins it's going to have to be a fricking genius concept!

If it turns out to be a swarm of pissed off island crickets there's going to be trouble.

I don't know. Those would be some mighty impressive crickets in my book ;). Magnetically mutated arthropods out for revenge! :eek:



ron

What's the point of fruitless speculation concerning Cerberus and who should wake up 1st from a gassing when we know that the show ignores physics, the most fundamental of the sciences?
I'm not knocking them for playing loose & fast with physics. I lost the right to that complaint when I kept on watching the show after people stood up with cuts & bruises from a plane breaking in two at high altitude. I'm just saying that arguing what's so based on real world rationality is an exercize in futility for this TV show.
It's about the characters, placed in a surreal situation that will eventually have an explanation, but not one necessarily grounded in much reality.

What's the point of fruitless speculation concerning Cerberus and who should wake up 1st from a gassing when we know that the show ignores physics, the most fundamental of the sciences?
I'm not knocking them for playing loose & fast with physics. I lost the right to that complaint when I kept on watching the show after people stood up with cuts & bruises from a plane breaking in two at high altitude. I'm just saying that arguing what's so based on real world rationality is an exercize in futility for this TV show.
It's about the characters, placed in a surreal situation that will eventually have an explanation, but not one necessarily grounded in much reality.

It's like Stand By Me...it's silly to argue about who is stronger, Superman or Mighty Mouse. Mighty Mouse is a cartoon....Superman is a real guy :-)

It's like Stand By Me...it's silly to argue about who is stronger, Superman or Mighty Mouse. Mighty Mouse is a cartoon....Superman is a real guy :-)

Yeah, but what about a cartoon Superman????

Yes! I was kidding with my wife that the next the scene after Kate & Juliet got back to the Others hideaway would be them showering...together. :D

And how did your wife take that little joke?

He's still bigger.

- Tom

the cows are safe, explosion didnt go that far over, but yet no one will ever find em, til next season LOL (41:07 on Enter 77, is when it blows)

Except for being decorated with about 50 pounds of C4 that place might have been a nice place to live. Locke has serious issues about blowing up stuff. I'm never going to invite him to my house.

- Tom

Unfortunately they've built it up to be something so cool and discredited so many acceptable ideas that when they do reveal it's origins it's going to have to be a fricking genius concept!All I know is, if Smokey (scanning minds) is the reason why they know so much about certain individuals, they'd better save that revelation for the series' finale. Some viewers might tune-out if they played that hand now.

All I know is, if Smokey (scanning minds) is the reason why they know so much about certain individuals, they'd better save that revelation for the series' finale. Some viewers might tune-out if they played that hand now.

Makes one wonder if Ben's "magic box" just might be where Smokey lives or originates from. Hmmmmm....

From;
New evidence of animal consciousness
Journal /Animal Cognition
Publisher /Springer Berlin / Heidelberg
ISSN 1435-9448 (Print) 1435-9456 (Online)
Subject Biomedical and Life Sciences and Humanities, Social Sciences and Law
Issue Volume 7, Number 1 / January, 2004
Pages 5-18
SpringerLink Date Thursday, February 19, 2004


New data have demonstrated increased flexibility in the gestural communication of swarming honey bees that leads to vitally important group decisions as to which cavity a swarm should select as its new home. Although no single piece of evidence provides absolute proof of consciousness, this accumulation of strongly suggestive evidence increases significantly the likelihood that some animals experience at least simple conscious thoughts and feelings

Hmm...
I just like the idea of swarm, hive, flock, intelligence.

Just to recap;

...SHOWERS! For that matter, shouldn't Kate and Juilet have taken one before heading out....?

Any episode with Kate and Juliette wrestling wet and covered with mud is a keeper.
.

that shirt was a lil extra tight huh :D (need a drool smily)
...


I definitely wanted to see Kate and Juliet take a shower, too.

-Chris

It was taking pictures of the tight fitting tops. :)

Yes! I was kidding with my wife that the next the scene after Kate & Juliet got back to the Others hideaway would be them showering...together. :D

What did she say to that?

Hmm...
I just like the idea of swarm, hive, flock, intelligence.

I think they'd get a lot of crap if they said they aren't nanobots, they're highly intelligent, trained microscopic bees. :)

I think they'd get a lot of crap if they said they aren't nanobots, they're highly intelligent, trained microscopic bees. :)


....who can assume any shape, take snapshots, sound like a steam whistle and handcrank.....but don't make honey. Yup. Sounds just like the ones in my backyard. :eek:

Not good news guys:

""Lost" earned a 4.8, marking its seventh straight week of decline."

http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11844

Get it off that 10pm time slot and they'd get at least one viewer back. As it is I'm getting my episodes by other means. ;)

Right. I've been foregoing HD and std res TiVoing LOST because I'm such a geezer and can't stay up late.

[Thinking aloud.. No spoilers here.. just speculation]

I read Michael Crichton's Prey recently, and the nanobot swarms in that book seems to have been an inspiration behind Smokey's character in Lost. In Prey, the nanobots took over people by getting them to inhale bits of the swarm, which altered the behavior of the infected. Could this be the kind of "sickness" that is prevalent on the island? The kind of swarm intelligence and nesting behavior shown on Lost is eerily similar to the traits of the nanobot swarm from 'Prey'. Could the Others have worn the "masks" as protection against Smokey because they might be trekking across 'swarm country'? Maybe they smoked Kate, Juliette and Jack to knock them out to leave them at the mercy of the swarms. I would guess that Ben and co. deserted their base because of the increased activity from Smokey? But why did they leave Jack behind, thereby effectively making Ben a 'deserter' in the sense of breaking his promise to Jack?

I can't believe it that nobody mentioned the state of Jack's room when Kate and Jules came to him.. It had broken furniture indicating a struggle, and the way Jack got up indicated that he had been physically assaulted prior to gassing.

And Smokey CAN jump high in the air when needed.. remember the body snatching from atop the tree in the pilot? And the way Locke was gaping high up into the tree tops when he first ran across it in S1?

Maybe it just needs something to latch on to while climbing up that high.. which indicates its inability to devise methods to jump over the fence... Oh sh!t !! The tree branch that Kate and Locke put up over the fence when they jumped over it !! :eek:

Maybe Smokey just discovered the method of getting over the invisible fence now.. and maybe it entered the camp, forcing the others to don the gas masks and flee the base !! They gassed and ditched the "evil" bastages to be dealt with by Smokey.

It'd be interesting to see the expose' of the latest episode.

There have been several of us who have read Prey and came to the same conclusion you did.....yet the producers have stated a number of times that it isn't nanobots. So, other than a swarm of intelligent bees, what looks like a swarm of nanobots, acts like a swarm of nanobots, but aren't nanobots????

There have been several of us who have read Prey and came to the same conclusion you did.....yet the producers have stated a number of times that it isn't nanobots. So, other than a swarm of intelligent bees, what looks like a swarm of nanobots, acts like a swarm of nanobots, but aren't nanobots????

Misinformation, my good man. The nanobot theory, of which I am proud to say originated with me (I'll take my 15 minutes of fame however I can get them, thank you very much), is the only thing that could possibly explain Smokey other than something supernatural - and that's against the rules, according to those guys.

Now, that said, maybe super-natural isn't that far-fetched, given how the "mutant micro-honeybee" theory has now been proposed. :D But seriously, how about something organic? Ant colonies, as well as the afore-mentioned bee colonies, and countless other insectazoid species, seem to have a collective intelligence that we are only beginning to understand. Who's to say the Dharma dudes didn't bio-engineer the 6-legged equivalent of the nano-swarm? Somehow controllable and, at least to an extent, manageable...? Maybe that was Dharma's crowning achievement. And perhaps later, even its downfall. :eek:

There have been several of us who have read Prey and came to the same conclusion you did.....yet the producers have stated a number of times that it isn't nanobots. So, other than a swarm of intelligent bees, what looks like a swarm of nanobots, acts like a swarm of nanobots, but aren't nanobots????

I believe the producers' rebuttal of the nanobot theory was ambiguously worded. Lindelof said "Of course !! It depends on how you define a nanobot..", and not an unequivocal "Smokey is not a nanobot swarm.."

Misinformation, my good man. The nanobot theory, of which I am proud to say originated with me (I'll take my 15 minutes of fame however I can get them, thank you very much), is the only thing that could possibly explain Smokey other than something supernatural - and that's against the rules, according to those guys.

Now, that said, maybe super-natural isn't that far-fetched, given how the "mutant micro-honeybee" theory has now been proposed. :D But seriously, how about something organic? Ant colonies, as well as the afore-mentioned bee colonies, and countless other insectazoid species, seem to have a collective intelligence that we are only beginning to understand. Who's to say the Dharma dudes didn't bio-engineer the 6-legged equivalent of the nano-swarm? Somehow controllable and, at least to an extent, manageable...? Maybe that was Dharma's crowning achievement. And perhaps later, even its downfall. :eek:

That would be some clever microbees that make that clicking and whirring noises as they fly by !! Talk about a misdirection strategy !! :p

Misinformation, my good man. The nanobot theory, of which I am proud to say originated with me

It originated immediately with anyone who'd read Chrichton's PREY or had read Eric Drexler's books pioneering nanotechnology back in the 80s.

Misinformation, my good man. The nanobot theory, of which I am proud to say originated with me (I'll take my 15 minutes of fame however I can get them, thank you very much), is the only thing that could possibly explain Smokey other than something supernatural - and that's against the rules, according to those guys.

or they could just be totally ripping off Forbidden Planet.

Could the Others have worn the "masks" as protection against Smokey because they might be trekking across 'swarm country'?

They haven't in the past that we've seen.

They haven't in the past that we've seen.

The others might know when and where Smokey usually prowls.. so if they don't wander in those places, we don't see masks. Now, as I theorized, if Smokey managed to sneak into the base, it would be prudent to wear masks and run..

The masks were simply because they wanted to go in and pickup Kate immediately after gassing her, without waiting for the gas to clear out. IMO.

I can't believe it that nobody mentioned the state of Jack's room when Kate and Jules came to him.. It had broken furniture indicating a struggle, and the way Jack got up indicated that he had been physically assaulted prior to gassing.

I think we all noticed, but out of respect for Jack we didn't want to discuss what was obviously a painful, embarassing sexual assault.

I read Michael Crichton's Prey recently, and the nanobot swarms in that book seems to have been an inspiration behind Smokey's character in Lost. In Prey, the nanobots took over people by getting them to inhale bits of the swarm, which altered the behavior of the infected. Could this be the kind of "sickness" that is prevalent on the island? The kind of swarm intelligence and nesting behavior shown on Lost is eerily similar to the traits of the nanobot swarm from 'Prey'. Could the Others have worn the "masks" as protection against Smokey because they might be trekking across 'swarm country'?


Misinformation, my good man. The nanobot theory, of which I am proud to say originated with me (I'll take my 15 minutes of fame however I can get them, thank you very much), is the only thing that could possibly explain Smokey other than something supernatural - and that's against the rules, according to those guys.Yes, I do believe archiguy was the first on this forum to interject the 'nano-theory' (take a little bow, son) to explain the 'monster', but I suggested last season that Smokey gets inhaled or emits an intoxicant/hallucinogen. Though I have to admit I've not yet read Prey.

It originated immediately with anyone who'd read Chrichton's PREY or had read Eric Drexler's books pioneering nanotechnology back in the 80s.

I was speaking specifically of this thread, and was making reference to the novel "Prey" when this theory about the black cloud was first postulated a couple of years back. You had to be there.

<edit> Thanks, rezzy; we were simul-posting.

Yes, I do believe archiguy was the first on this forum to interject the 'nano-theory' (take a little bow, son) to explain the 'monster'

He was also the first to speculate that there could be a second group of survivors from the tail of the plane - 3 months into the first season.

He was also the first to speculate that there could be a second group of survivors from the tail of the plane - 3 months into the first season.

It was this cover art from Prey that got a lot of us convinced:

http://www.amazon.com/Prey-Michael-Crichton/dp/0066214122

Wife and I listened to the Audio book a couple years ago after the discussion in this thread. Nothing has happened yet on Lost in that time to make it seem less likely.

In fact, I think despite claims to the contrary, nanobots were the only thing they could think of that could explain the various forms of the monster and the visions that developed as they went from a supernatural, to semi-scientific basis for everything.

I guess this means Speilberg's not doing the movie....? :mad: :p

He was also the first to speculate that there could be a second group of survivors from the tail of the plane - 3 months into the first season.

But the rest of us knew it so it doesn't count... :rolleyes:

If you want credit - you have to post it here. ;)

I liked the new Benchmade knife that juliette was carrying. Does everyone there have one? Why not an older looking knife? She never uses it? On an island?
Well, Goodwin had a Buck 110 (that Ana Lucia pointed out was a "U.S. Army" knife that hadn't been made in twenty years--although they're still available at Cabelas and other places: Buck Knives (http://www.buckknives.com/search.php?op=detail&start=0&pkid=224&category_id=223&search_term=110&return_op=search) ).

Maybe it *is* new, and was air dropped recently--her blue jeans looked brand-new, too...

~Dan

So, other than a swarm of intelligent bees, what looks like a swarm of nanobots, acts like a swarm of nanobots, but aren't nanobots????
Microbots? Same functioning as nanobots, but 1000 times larger... :D

~Dan

Though I have to admit I've not yet read Prey.
Your assignment this summer: Read it. You won't be disappointed.

~Dan

Microbots? Same functioning as nanobots, but 1000 times larger... :D

~Dan

A real possibility - and the first one to suggest it. Way to go. ;)

Why not just a bot then?

In fact, I am going to be the "first" to propose that smokey is a spam bot. Would explain why everyone is afraid of it, and run for the hills when it's near.

Maybe Locke think it's "beautiful" because he likes the idea of "free prescription viagra."

There have been several of us who have read Prey and came to the same conclusion you did.....yet the producers have stated a number of times that it isn't nanobots. So, other than a swarm of intelligent bees, what looks like a swarm of nanobots, acts like a swarm of nanobots, but aren't nanobots????
A Swarm of Tse Tse Flies, large biting flies from Africa which live by feeding on the blood of vertebrate animals. And they aren't minature, they are just very far away...
http://www.raskraska.ru/book/img/fly.jpg
Ok, nevermind.

Smokey probably represents a total lack of common sense, sort of an information black hole so dense that no explanation or even color can escape from within it. He is an area where the camera shows shapeless black even in broad daylight and where the Lost folks will run away in terror but are not capable even asking the simplest sensible question about him. He is basically a shredded plot hole brought to life by the forces of creative desperation. He is the spirit of shadow.

- Tom

Tom has spoken.....and that's probably the only explaination we'll ever get.

I think it's a cloud of nanobots and when confronted with this, the TPTB did the only thing they could: they lied. Let's face it, if they either went silent or evasive everytime someone said nanobots then people would be able to pry the whole plot out of them over time. Their only solution would be to occasionally lie, occasionally tell the truth, and mix a whole lot of misinformation in between.

I think it's a cloud of nanobots and when confronted with this, the TPTB did the only thing they could: they lied. Let's face it, if they either went silent or evasive everytime someone said nanobots then people would be able to pry the whole plot out of them over time. Their only solution would be to occasionally lie, occasionally tell the truth, and mix a whole lot of misinformation in between.

Bingo. We have a winner. :)

I know these guys are smart. LOST is one of the smartest, well-written, and densly plotted shows in the history of the medium. They built up a mountain of questions, riddles, and enigmas over the first 2 years. And I'm sure they have more in mind. But there are a lot of smart people who watch the show as well, and an awful lot of theories floating about. It would be naive to think there haven't been a few hits amongst all the misses. Nothing they can do but hunker down and fib about those, or "creative evasion" is probably a better term. ;)

Micro.. not nano. Completely different !!

We told you they were not nanobots !!

:D

I GOT IT! They're MicroDOTS!

Microbots? Same functioning as nanobots, but 1000 times larger... :D

~DanI still prefer the higher-end picobot theory myself :p.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7319453&&#post7319453



ron

nanu-bots?

http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/ghetnaz/?action=view&current=mork7.jpg


I bet we'll have this conversation again in another year......All this has happened before, and will happen again.

I bet we'll have this conversation again in another year......All this has happened before, and will happen again.

Wait, I thought these were new episodes!? :eek:

nanu-bots?

http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/ghetnaz/?action=view&current=mork7.jpg


I bet we'll have this conversation again in another year......All this has happened before, and will happen again.
I thought of this before, but I didn’t post because I was sure someone else had. I want my 15 minutes! I thought of it first, but didn’t post it, so that counts. :p ;) :)

my son and I were watching the episode when smokey made its appearance - we immediately looked at each other and said "prey" at the same time! I'm sure there were many others that thought the same thing!

Greg

Get it off that 10pm time slot and they'd get at least one viewer back. As it is I'm getting my episodes by other means. ;)

I hear you. I watch episodes of Lost on Saturday because it airs way to late for this 28 year old geezer. :o

I GOT IT! They're MicroDOTS!

Dipping Dots?

Ice cream of the future?

Bingo. We have a winner. :)

I know these guys are smart. LOST is one of the smartest, well-written, and densly plotted shows in the history of the medium. They built up a mountain of questions, riddles, and enigmas over the first 2 years. And I'm sure they have more in mind. But there are a lot of smart people who watch the show as well, and an awful lot of theories floating about. It would be naive to think there haven't been a few hits amongst all the misses. Nothing they can do but hunker down and fib about those, or "creative evasion" is probably a better term. ;)

So, now that brings the purgatory theory back into the realm of discussion then. ;)

Not good news guys:

""Lost" earned a 4.8, marking its seventh straight week of decline."

http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11844

Why is this not good news? It was announced a couple weeks ago ABC picked it up again for next season, and the producers have said they want to wrap it up in 5 seasons, right? So long as they don't axe it before 08-09 season, and I don't think they will, considering how much they've built up the show, how much talk there is on the internet of it, etc.

Some interesting parallels to Fantasy Island.


In later seasons there were often supernatural overtones suggesting that Mr. Roarke was an angel, or perhaps a space alien or something else other-worldly, and that his powers to fulfill fantasies were the result of a supernatural being or beings needing to correct things that had happened in the past. He also seemed to have his own magical powers of some sort, although it was never explained how this came to be. Roarke had a strong moral code throughout, but he was always merciful as he tried to teach his guests the error of their ways. Several guests died on the island, either due to their own negligence, aggression or arrogance, or because they'd been due to die anyway and Roarke was allowing them to live out one last wish.

Often, the fantasies would turn out to be morality lessons for the guests, sometimes to the point of (apparently) putting their lives at risk, only to have Roarke step in at the last minute and reveal the deception. A small number of guests decided to make the irrevocable choice to stay permanently, living out their fantasy until death...

In 1998, ABC attempted a revival of the series. The role of Mr. Roarke was filled by Malcolm McDowell and, unlike the first series, the supernatural aspect of his character and of Fantasy Island itself was emphasized from the start, along with a dose of dark humor. Another departure from the original involved filming location, with the new series filmed in Hawaii, rather than in California.

The supporting cast was also expanded for the new series. There was no attempt to replace Tattoo, with Roarke instead having a team of assistants — one of whom was a beautiful female shape shifter — who were assigned to help create and maintain the various fantasy worlds created on the island. Apparently these assistants were imprisoned on the island in order to pay off some debt, sometimes hinting that they were in some kind of Limbo...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Island

Some interesting parallels to Fantasy Island.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Island


That would make for a series finale at the level of the Newhart finale.
It turns out that the island the Losties are on is Fantasy Island - some years later.
Did we ever see Mr. Roarke's feet? Maybe he only has 4 toes ....

Heck there's probably a backstory in a future episode where we see the Oceania flight breaking up over the island and a small person running around yelling, "Ze plane, ze plane!"


Mitch

Some interesting parallels to Fantasy Island.

In 1998, ABC attempted a revival of the series. The role of Mr. Roarke was filled by Malcolm McDowell and, unlike the first series, the supernatural aspect of his character and of Fantasy Island itself was emphasized from the start, along with a dose of dark humor. Another departure from the original involved filming location, with the new series filmed in Hawaii, rather than in California.

The supporting cast was also expanded for the new series. There was no attempt to replace Tattoo, with Roarke instead having a team of assistants — one of whom was a beautiful female shape shifter — who were assigned to help create and maintain the various fantasy worlds created on the island. Apparently these assistants were imprisoned on the island in order to pay off some debt, sometimes hinting that they were in some kind of Limbo...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Island

I caught the remake when the Sci-Fi channel used to air it on weekends. Great, great show. McDowell was an excellent Mr Roarke and the stunningly beautiful Madchen Amick played (somewhat) the Tattoo role.

I'll have to go back to check but if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the first class seats on Oceanic flight 815 were upholstered in Fine Corinthian Leather too...


ron

Why is this not good news? It was announced a couple weeks ago ABC picked it up again for next season, and the producers have said they want to wrap it up in 5 seasons, right? So long as they don't axe it before 08-09 season, and I don't think they will, considering how much they've built up the show, how much talk there is on the internet of it, etc.
Because it doesn't matter how much talk there is or how much the show is built up, if the ratings dip too low it will be canceled. Especially if it gets into the lower 2 ratings, that's a danger zone...

ABC pointed out that "Lost" has recently been the most recorded broadcast show on television, gaining more than 22 percent more viewers in the demo due to time-shifted viewing. ----from the TV WEEK article that was linked earlier.

I don't think that it as much that fewer people are watching LOST, but fewer are tuning in @ 10:00. I know I for one have always DVR-ed this (and every other) show.

Considering that in the same article, it shows that ABC's pre-LOST Wed schedule gets less than half the viewers that LOST still pulls in means it's not time to ring the death knell for Oceanic 815 just yet. True, those other shows are against IDOL (partially), but LOST still has a pretty sizable audience. And it's likely the majority of them are watching each episode at some time other than Wed's @ 10.

I don't think that it as much that fewer people are watching LOST, but fewer are tuning in @ 10:00. I know I for one have always DVR-ed this (and every other) show.I remember saying that too, but I still stay up to watch new episodes of Lost, which is not easy for a 50+ year old man whose alarm clock is set to 5:45 AM. :eek:

Because it doesn't matter how much talk there is or how much the show is built up, if the ratings dip too low it will be canceled. Especially if it gets into the lower 2 ratings, that's a danger zone...

LOST is in no danger of being cancelled. Zero, nada, zip. The worry I have is that lower ratings will force a reduction in their budget, which would impact the quality of the show. It's got to be the most expensive show on ABC's schedule, by a wide margin - filming on location in Hawaii 'n all. But all that money is up there on the screen. I'd hate to see them start to have to cut corners, maybe shift production back to the mainland or something. I have the same fear for my other favorite show, 'Battlestar Galactica'. Both have audiences far greater than that reported in the Nielsens, but all those time-shifters don't matter to the network bean-counters.

I gotta hand it to abc.com and their new "viewer" for watching widescreen, streamed full episodes of their shows.

My wife and I are vacationing in Kauai right now and missed the ep on Wed., which we usually record and watch on Thurs. nights when we're at home. So Sun. night I dialed in to the website on my laptop, called up the LOST show, plugged in 2 pairs of headphones and set the laptop on the coffee table. While certainly not close to HD I was surprised at the clarity of the picture, and the audio, especially during the Smokey scenes, was excellent 2.0! I used the option for a full screen view on my 15" and it was great. The stream I got was totally uninterrupted - not one glitch. And, there were about 4 30-second ad spots.

So I now know how I'll view the next 2 eps while here in paradise! :D

I gotta hand it to abc.com and their new "viewer" for watching widescreen, streamed full episodes of their shows.

My wife and I are vacationing in Kauai right now and missed the ep on Wed., which we usually record and watch on Thurs. nights when we're at home. So Sun. night I dialed in to the website on my laptop, called up the LOST show, plugged in 2 pairs of headphones and set the laptop on the coffee table. While certainly not close to HD I was surprised at the clarity of the picture, and the audio, especially during the Smokey scenes, was excellent 2.0! I used the option for a full screen view on my 15" and it was great. The stream I got was totally uninterrupted - not one glitch. And, there were about 4 30-second ad spots.

So I now know how I'll view the next 2 eps while here in paradise! :D
As long as Smokey doesn't come along and eat your laptop... ;)

I gotta hand it to abc.com and their new "viewer" for watching widescreen, streamed full episodes of their shows.

My wife and I are vacationing in Kauai right now and missed the ep on Wed., which we usually record and watch on Thurs. nights when we're at home. So Sun. night I dialed in to the website on my laptop, called up the LOST show, plugged in 2 pairs of headphones and set the laptop on the coffee table. While certainly not close to HD I was surprised at the clarity of the picture, and the audio, especially during the Smokey scenes, was excellent 2.0! I used the option for a full screen view on my 15" and it was great. The stream I got was totally uninterrupted - not one glitch. And, there were about 4 30-second ad spots.

So I now know how I'll view the next 2 eps while here in paradise! :D

3 Episodes air while you're in Kauai? Wow, that's a nice long vacation.

You should try to find some of the sets and shooting areas. Are all this seasons eps in the can?

I gotta hand it to abc.com and their new "viewer" for watching widescreen, streamed full episodes of their shows.

My wife and I are vacationing in Kauai right now and missed the ep on Wed., which we usually record and watch on Thurs. nights when we're at home. So Sun. night I dialed in to the website on my laptop, called up the LOST show, plugged in 2 pairs of headphones and set the laptop on the coffee table. While certainly not close to HD I was surprised at the clarity of the picture, and the audio, especially during the Smokey scenes, was excellent 2.0! I used the option for a full screen view on my 15" and it was great. The stream I got was totally uninterrupted - not one glitch. And, there were about 4 30-second ad spots.

So I now know how I'll view the next 2 eps while here in paradise! :D


I will be in Kauai at the end of July/beginning of August. My wife and are planning on spending one day on Oahu so we can see two of our nation's greatest landmarks: Pearl Harbor and The Filmsite of Lost. Luckily, they are practically on opposite ends of the island. I guess we may have to cut out Pearl Harbor. :) I wish I was going to be in Hawaii for three weeks or more, though.

By the way, I think I agree with VisionOn a few pages back (or whoever it was) that said Smokey is a bunch of crazy, pissed-off crickets. They are possessed like in the movie Constatine. See, you can have a simple, reasonable answer to the Smokey mystery that doesn't include nanobots. Its a big cloud of crazy crickets possessed by the spirit of the island. ;)

Occam's Razor, guys. Occam's Razor.

By the way, I think I agree with VisionOn a few pages back (or whoever it was) that said Smokey is a bunch of crazy, pissed-off crickets. They are possessed like in the movie Constatine. See, you can have a simple, reasonable answer to the Smokey mystery that doesn't include nanobots. Its a big cloud of crazy crickets possessed by the spirit of the island. ;)

Occam's Razor, guys. Occam's Razor.

...And each one holding a really tiny camera so they can take pictures of women hiding in banyan trees. :D Sounds about right.

ABC pointed out that "Lost" has recently been the most recorded broadcast show on television, gaining more than 22 percent more viewers in the demo due to time-shifted viewing. ----from the TV WEEK article that was linked earlier.

I don't think that it as much that fewer people are watching LOST, but fewer are tuning in @ 10:00. I know I for one have always DVR-ed this (and every other) show.

Considering that in the same article, it shows that ABC's pre-LOST Wed schedule gets less than half the viewers that LOST still pulls in means it's not time to ring the death knell for Oceanic 815 just yet. True, those other shows are against IDOL (partially), but LOST still has a pretty sizable audience. And it's likely the majority of them are watching each episode at some time other than Wed's @ 10.

How do they measure such a thing? I mean, I DVR it for my wife because she gets up earlier for work than I do, but how could they know how many people are doing that?

Sampling.

So, just 'asking' people whether or not they do?

There are a number of sources for objective DVR data. Tivo has a very large sample available that can show the number of people that season pass or record - and when the copy was viewed.

They also have data showing how many commercials are skipped or FF'd - but for some reason, nobody really wants to know that info. ;)

Smokey could simply be the debris from all of the things Locke has blown up. That might explain why he was able to go nose to nose staring it down and walk away instead of being grabbed like Eko and the pilot.

So, just 'asking' people whether or not they do?

I do both many times. Record it and watch it live. That way, if I fall asleep, or miss something, I have it recorded.

How do they measure such a thing? I mean, I DVR it for my wife because she gets up earlier for work than I do, but how could they know how many people are doing that?

I believe the cable companies can track what we record on DVR.

Tracking my DVR habits (including HTPC) is at least mildly offensive; however, it seems pointless. The purpose for ratings has been to help determine advertising rates, but I don't watch ads on DVR'd programs.

With Tivo, you have to specifically agree to participate in the data collection. Even then, the info is pooled and not stored as an individual household.

There are a number of sources for objective DVR data. Tivo has a very large sample available that can show the number of people that season pass or record - and when the copy was viewed.


I wonder how much of the total DVR market in now held by TiVo? With all the cable companies now giving them away like Halloween candy (mostly models made by Scientific Atlanta or Motorola), I'm not sure that a sample of TiVo users is all that representative anymore anyways.

I wonder how much of the total DVR market in now held by TiVo? With all the cable companies now giving them away like Halloween candy (mostly models made by Scientific Atlanta or Motorola), I'm not sure that a sample of TiVo users is all that representative anymore anyways.
I wish my provider would give them away. I'd have to both upgrade my service and pay a few monthly fees on top just for the privilege of recording my shows. My monthly bill would almost double. Freaking cox!

As it stands I have a MacMini with an EyeTV 500, and I know my viewing habits aren't tracked. ;)

I wish my provider would give them away. I'd have to both upgrade my service and pay a few monthly fees on top just for the privilege of recording my shows. My monthly bill would almost double. Freaking cox!



Well, they are complicated, expensive machines, basically dedicated computers, and you're not being forced to buy it. The fees they charge are entirely appropriate, and it would take many years to equal the $800 TiVo is charging for the S-3, and the TiVo has a monthly fee (almost twice what my cable company charges) on top of that. Not to mention, if the tech changes, I just trade it in on a new model.

Dude, a dual-tuner HD-DVR from the cable company is a pretty good deal no matter how you cut it. :cool:

Well, they are complicated, expensive machines, basically dedicated computers, and you're not being forced to buy it. The fees they charge are entirely appropriate, and it would take many years to equal the $800 TiVo is charging for the S-3, and the TiVo has a monthly fee (almost twice what my cable company charges) on top of that. Not to mention, if the tech changes, I just trade it in on a new model.

Dude, a dual-tuner HD-DVR from the cable company is a pretty good deal no matter how you cut it. :cool:
You're crazy. An additional $35/mo just to add the DVR is too much IMO. That makes up the cost of the Tivo hardware in under two years. I put together my own DVR for under $500 and I have no monthly fees. Add another $100 to make it dual tuner (which I personally don't need, but whatever) and the cable company's box looks like a pretty big ripoff.

You're crazy. An additional $35/mo just to add the DVR is too much IMO. That makes up the cost of the Tivo hardware in under two years. I put together my own DVR for under $500 and I have no monthly fees. Add another $100 to make it dual tuner (which I personally don't need, but whatever) and the cable company's box looks like a pretty big ripoff.

Not everyone has $500 or $600 lying around to put down on a Tivo or ReplayTV..the monthly fee makes it attainable without being cumbersome on the budget. And after 2 years, a new model comes out with more features and it doesn't cost you any additional $$.

Personally if it weren't for HD, I'd still have my ReplayTV...loved the way it worked, the way I could network it for streaming/copying/burning to a PC, etc.

But spending $3000 on a TV (3.5 years ago) then balking at $30/month didn't make sense to me. I wanted to enjoy the HD but time shift and do it affordably. Comcast's HD-DVR did that for me, without having to shell out any additional $$.

I wonder how much of the total DVR market in now held by TiVo? With all the cable companies now giving them away like Halloween candy (mostly models made by Scientific Atlanta or Motorola), I'm not sure that a sample of TiVo users is all that representative anymore anyways.

You should be happy to have Tivo be the primary sample. Non-Tivos have to be a larger group by now, but there's no reason to think that the DBS viewer's tastes can't be extrapolated to represent all DVR users. Plus, if there is a material difference in the tastes of DBS viewers and cable viewers - I'd wager that DBS tastes are more alligned with your taste than the average cable sub. (Despite you being a cable sub)

You're crazy. An additional $35/mo just to add the DVR is too much IMO. That makes up the cost of the Tivo hardware in under two years. I put together my own DVR for under $500 and I have no monthly fees. Add another $100 to make it dual tuner (which I personally don't need, but whatever) and the cable company's box looks like a pretty big ripoff.

Crazy? Trying to live with only one tuner, now that's crazy! Heck, I've got 2 DVR's with 4 tuners and every once in awhile I need all four!

But besides that, why are you assuming the DVR fee is $35? Mine is less than $8/month, meaning it would take 100 months to buy that TiVo. :rolleyes: I suspect that most of that $35 you mention is to subscribe to the "digital tier", which any self-respecting HD lover would be doing anyway since that's where most of the HD channels are.

Crazy? Trying to live with only one tuner, now that's crazy! Heck, I've got 2 DVR's with 4 tuners and every once in awhile I need all four!

But besides that, why are you assuming the DVR fee is $35? Mine is less than $8/month, meaning it would take 100 months to buy that TiVo. :rolleyes: I suspect that most of that $35 you mention is to subscribe to the "digital tier", which any self-respecting HD lover would be doing anyway since that's where most of the HD channels are.
First, I have a dual tuner setup. One is the tuner in my TV if I want to watch live content, the other is the tuner in my EyeTV.

And I'm not assuming anything. Cox charges $9.50/mo for the DVR services, $5.50/mo for the device rental, and then another $20 for the digital bundle. And that only gets you half of the HDTV channels they offer. Plus, any self-respecting HD lover would recognize that OTA signals are of much higher quality than the over-compressed cable signals anyway (even though I'm using cable). ;)

Iteki - I'll never understand the "Well I spent $x grand on a tv, why not spend $x per month for service." How about the argument that I researched and spent money on a quality display and don't feel like throwing money down the toilet for overpriced services?



Now, how is all of this about Lost again? :D

Iteki - I'll never understand the "Well I spent $x grand on a tv, why not spend $x per month for service." How about the argument that I researched and spent money on a quality display and don't feel like throwing money down the toilet for overpriced services?



I understand how you can compare the overall cost vs the monthly cost and find the math compelling for purchasing outright. But it seems as though you ignore the convenience of renting and being free to upgrade the when the next model comes out, just by switching boxes. I did that twice with Comcast, and will do so with Dish when they roll out an upgrade to the Vip622.

Plus, I have TWO dual tuner DVRs now, one in the bedroom and one in the living room. The one in the bedroom costs me less than $5 a month (SD). It fits my budget, doesn't break the bank, works as advertised...I don't have a problem with it.

Besides, the only HD DVR option available to me at the time I dropped my Replay was the DirecTV HD-Tivo, and I was living in an apartment at the time and couldn't get a signal in anyway. Tivo didn't have a standalone HD option at the time, and Comcast saved the HD day.

To each their own...but you won't see me calling anyone 'crazy' because they don't agree with my fiscal arguments. :-)


Now, how is all of this about Lost again? :D

LOL, it must be Tuesday...new ep to talk about tomorrow.

I wonder how much of the total DVR market in now held by TiVo? With all the cable companies now giving them away like Halloween candy (mostly models made by Scientific Atlanta or Motorola), I'm not sure that a sample of TiVo users is all that representative anymore anyways.
"giving them away like Halloween candy" is an inaccurate characterization of the true cost of cable supplied DVRs. When I researched buying my S3 I broke the cost down in detail. Bottom line, I save $35-40 a month by going with the S3 over the cable DVR, including all costs associated with the S3(purchase, subscription, CCs, etc.) because I don't have to purchase additional programming I didn't want and never watched.

I have Limited Basic with 2 CCs for the S3 and total per month is about $45, with the cable DVR it would have ran me about $75 due to the additional programming requirements(programming I didn't want), plus it's a TiVo!! :)

What does all of this have to do with LOST?

Well, if the folks on the island had a DVR they could replay the scenes with Smokey in slo/mo and maybe figure out what it is. :)

What does all of this have to do with LOST?

It shows to you that the natives are getting bored waiting for new stuff to discuss about the show. And it is because Lost only comes once a week.

My wife and I are vacationing in Kauai right now and missed the ep on Wed....You could've just walked over and watched it as it happened...... :rolleyes: Could've had a V-8.....*thunk* :D

You're crazy. An additional $35/mo just to add the DVR is too much IMO. That makes up the cost of the Tivo hardware in under two years. I put together my own DVR for under $500 and I have no monthly fees. Add another $100 to make it dual tuner (which I personally don't need, but whatever) and the cable company's box looks like a pretty big ripoff.

$11.95 here (Comcast - S. Jersey; SA8300HD).

$11.95 here (Comcast - S. Jersey; SA8300HD).

Same here, 11.95 for a Moto 3416, that has working firewire(for me) so I can export to my PC or my DVHS. It may not be Tivo, but I've learned to live with the DVR, the new guide in use since way back in 2005 isn't THAT bad. Sure beats the guide that every person I know who has an SA box.

It's not a steal, but for me, an HD box(no DVR) costs $5/month anyway, so it's really only $7 a month, not having cable HD is not an option :)

Freaking cox!

Is that a derogatory term for your cable provider, the actual name of your cable provider, or both? :D

It would be hard to convince me that the VIP622 isn't as good a deal as anyone has. Because I turned in a Dish 942 receiver ($99 credit) and also took advantage of a $100 programming credit, I basically got my $199 initial lease fee returned. I have a DVR and lease fee that totals $12/mo I think. I have 3 tuners (counting my HD OTA). I can watch my recordings on either TV. It is easy to use, and I have had no problems with it at all.

It would be nice to have 2 HD OTA tuner like some of the D* units do. And it would be nice if the VIP622 provided HD signals to both TVs it feeds to. Other than that and the resolution tampering going on with DBS, I couldn't ask for more.


Oh, and to keep this Lost related: wouldn't it have been great to see Kate and Juliet take a little time for a shower? I can't believe nobody has mentioned it yet. ;) That locker room where Kate showers at the beginning of Season 3 will suffice.

It would be hard to convince me that the VIP622 isn't as good a deal as anyone has.

It would be nice to have 2 HD OTA tuner like some of the D* units do. And it would be nice if the VIP622 provided HD signals to both TVs it feeds to. Other than that and the resolution tampering going on with DBS, I couldn't ask for more.

If you read those comments together, it's pretty funny. :p Hey, whatever gets you through the day. ;)


Oh, and to keep this Lost related: wouldn't it have been great to see Kate and Juliet take a little time for a shower? I can't believe nobody has mentioned it yet. ;) That locker room where Kate showers at the beginning of Season 3 will suffice.

Did you forget that room was on the little "Alcatraz" island? That's where the Others went back to, probably.

Oh, and to keep this Lost related: wouldn't it have been great to see Kate and Juliet take a little time for a shower? I can't believe nobody has mentioned it yet. ;)

See Post #22205 - it took less than 90 minutes from the end of the show for someone (NetworkTV) to suggest that.

See Post #22205 - it took less than 90 minutes from the end of the show for someone (NetworkTV) to suggest that.
Which is about 89 minutes longer than it should've taken. ;)

See Post #22205 - it took less than 90 minutes from the end of the show for someone (NetworkTV) to suggest that.

I saw all 50 times someone mentioned it. Hence the ;) . I was making a joke about how many times I saw it mentioned.

If you read those comments together, it's pretty funny. :p Hey, whatever gets you through the day. ;)

I guess I shouldn't mention the major advantage of the other popular DBS HD receiver when trying to explain why I think the VIP622 is the best. I guess I mentioned it because that is the ONE thing every D* fanboy mentions when somebody else makes a claim that the 622 is the best HD-DVR. I was just stating that fact before someone could come in and remind me. I'll never be a politician or a PR spokesperson for Microsoft of Sony. You never acknowledge weakness. :p


Did you forget that room was on the little "Alcatraz" island? That's where the Others went back to, probably.

Totally spaced on that little fact. Regardless of its location, it would make a great place for the "shower scene."

What the heck? Did I miss an episode or something? What happened to Locke's dad sitting gagged in that room? That was two episodes ago by my count. Surely I missed one?

What the heck? Did I miss an episode or something? What happened to Locke's dad sitting gagged in that room? That was two episodes ago by my count. Surely I missed one?
Word was we wouldn't continue that storyline until 5 episodes later.


Yeah, lame.

what are the odds that we actually get to hear everything julie knows tonight :(

what are the odds that we actually get to hear everything julie knows tonight :(
Everything? The odds are 86743948320445.854:1. ;)

Jack's a real pain in the a**.

um...wasn't it dark out when juliette left for the caves??

Oh holy hell. Great twist there at the end.

wow

kinda felt that twist coming but kept thinking it was a bit too cliche.

I don't understand what having her as a mole in the Losties camp will gain the Others at this point.

yessirrrrrrrrr!! Lost Is Back!!

wife told me that's what was happening but no I fell for it! :rolleyes:

Oh holy hell. Great twist there at the end.

Was it? This is what I've been saying is going on for two weeks amongst everyone shrugging me off as nothing short of retarded. Finally I get to be the one saying I told you so instead of the other way around :P

I can't believe someone's argument against it was actually "what's the point" the whole time when 95% of what we already knew the others had done you could say the same thing about.

It's finally payoff time for us.

um...wasn't it dark out when juliette left for the caves??YES...no idea why they goofered there!

Was it? This is what I've been saying is going on for two weeks amongst everyone shrugging me off as nothing short of retarded.

Well, not everyone! :)

I didn't mean it was a shocking twist - everyone has been thinking she was a mole for quite a while. But this twist was actually done quite well. They really built her up as a sympathetic character this episode and then turned it around at the end.

So no, it wasn't hard to see coming, but it was executed much better than I thought it would have been.

Nice job of tying the relationships of people together.

Juliette is still a puzzle to me. I wonder if she has just turned downright evil, or if she believes in whatever the "big secret" of the island and feels that it is worth using people the way Ben does. In any case, a great episode.

after seeing her sister cured she became a blind follower is my guess...she is attracted to Jack IMHO.

I know they said `season finale' but I think this is `it'..course I said that last year...too much info revealed.

Jack does have one thing right about Juliet...she really wants to get off that Island.
Following Ben's 'orders' to infiltrate the camp and 'saving' Claire. Juliet still believes Ben can get her off the Island and back to her sister & nephew. In the end , i have a feeling that is going to backfire on her, but hopefully it doesnt get her killed...because she is becoming a wonderful piece of eye candy for me... Anyone have any HD screen shots of her bedroom scene with Goodwin? pretty please?

Yeah, she has a few miles on her, but she is in like new condition. She just pops on the screen for some reason.

I still don't have a clue what her character is really about.

Are you serious! ABC is going to milk this show for every dollar they can. Expect at least 2 more seasons.

I don't understand one thing: Why was the dish on top of Mikel's station moving, when they showed the flashback of Juliette and Ben visiting him so Ben could prove he isn't a liar.

Sat dishes can't move like that when they are receiving, can they?

i get the feeling that juliet will be buried next to ethan when she tries to meet ben and co. in a week

Nice job weaving all those disparate past events into the fabric of the ongoing mystery.
I've always been uncomfortable with Juliette's smug smirky expression. She IS hot though.
Why would she act as Ben's minion after all we've seen about them in her flashbacks? I SO wanted Sayid to go all inquisitor on her.

anyone notice the stunted audio when they returned to the camp??Almost like an old cassette wrinkling up...

I agree about the twist. It isn't that nobody thought that Juliet was a mole the whole time, but as someone said earlier, they did a good job really casting doubt, at least in my mind, that she actually was a mole. Therefore, when it turned out she actually was a mole, it was a bit surprising.

Of course, with her history with Ben, I am not convinced she is actually going to do what Ben wants her to do. I think she'll find that she likes this group of people a lot more than who she was with, and find that she can't betray them in the end. Perhaps that is a bit cliche, but it was hinted at when Ben asked her whether she was ok with the plan, as if Ben sensed some doubt.

Without the sub, I am not sure how Ben can now promise her that he will get her off.

So you have to be sedated to get to the island? How about getting off? Does that mean Michael had trouble leaving?

I just thought of a question...who is Jacob? I know that the Others are told to trust in Jacob, but who is he and how could he help Juliets sister? I personally dont believe the Others did anything for her, but anyway, my question still stands...who is Jacob!

wow and i think Juliet is pregnant!!!!!

Dude, that was freakin' awesome.

Are you serious! ABC is going to milk this show for every dollar they can. Expect at least 2 more seasons.
they've already said 1 1/2 - 2 seasons left. so no expecting needed and its not milking when its still good... unlike 24, x-files or multiples of 1 show

Juli even told Kate how things work last ep. Yet everyone just keeps fallin for it. Seeing her sister and nephew really did kind of flip her back into the fold.

Sure Ben lies but about what. Did her sister's cancer really come back and they healed her or were the reports fake from jump.

looks like the cams came in handy as Sawyer only told Kate about shooting dude in Aus.

I agree on the twist... obviously it's not shocking that she's a mole, the MO of "The Others" has been telegraphed to death in this series and you know they set up elaborate ruses to manipulate people into doing their bidding on their own free will. But it was just handled nicely. This was a well made episode. One of the better of this season, maybe the best.

Yeah great episode. Finally some information in regards to what's been going on this whole time. I guess that pretty much closes any speculation that this group was 'chosen' and brought to the island.

One thing though, Ben mentioned that they had triggered some sort of device in Claire, causing her sickness. If that was the case, then what Juliet told Jack about the 'island pregnancy disease' didn't affect Claire after all, and if that's true, then is anything she said about Ethan and Claire true?

i get the feeling that juliet will be buried next to ethan when she tries to meet ben and co. in a week

Errr.....there are 5 episodes (days left) next week is next season.

Yeah, she has a few miles on her, but she is in like new condition. She just pops on the screen for some reason.

I still don't have a clue what her character is really about.
She really does, incredible beauty that really seems to come out on screen, and although I'll probably be tar'ed and feathered for saying it, but she's got it all over Kate in the natural beauty department.

She really does, incredible beauty that really seems to come out on screen, and although I'll probably be tar'ed and feathered for saying it, but she's got it all over Kate in the natural beauty department.

Consider yourself tar'ed and feathered! You must be joking...Kate is hotter than a supernova! Julliete ain't bad, but c'mon...

she is becoming a wonderful piece of eye candy for me... Anyone have any HD screen shots of her bedroom scene with Goodwin? pretty please?
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/836/lostms6.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/836/lostms6.jpg)

Pretty darn good episode. It definitely gave me some food for thought:

- Pregnancies don't work on the island - to the point of killing the mother. (I'm guessing it's some sort of immune system response.)

- People don't get sick on the island. (Again, I'm guessing it's some sort of immune system response.)

- But, what about Ben's cancer? Well, in the discussion between Juliette and Ben, Juliette corrected Ben when he said he had cancer and said he had a tumor. So, maybe the tumor was just a mechanism (by the island? Jacob?) to manipulate Jack (why? I have no idea) - but, Ben wasn't going to die.

- So, why be on the island? Well, nobody gets sick, but you can't make any babies. I'm assuming the Others have ideas about out what keeps people from getting sick - or at least how to exploit the healing properties of the island. But, they need to fix the baby-making problem - and haven't.

- I think the "week" ends with the last episode of this season, but they'll string out that day until next season.


Mitch

Juliet has a different kind of beauty, almost angelic. Kate, O.T.O.H. has a younger, freckle face, upturned nose but with a body look. Each is different both both are most certainly "do-able"!
Did anyone else notice that the sub last night did not look like the sub Locke (supposedly) blew up? Last nights looked smaller and blue, whereas the other one looked longer, grey, and more military looking.

Does anyone have a screenshot of the newspaper headlines when Ben showed Juliet her sister?

Will Kate tell Sun about the problem with woman having babies on the island and will Sun tell Jin?

Good episode.

Juliet has a different kind of beauty, almost angelic. Kate, O.T.O.H. has a younger, freckle face, upturned nose but with a body look. Each is different both both are most certainly "do-able"!

Put me "firmly" in the Juliet camp. Oh my, she's hot. Kate's a girl, "cute" best describes her; Juliet is a woman (and built like it). ;)

Did anyone else notice that the sub last night did not look like the sub Locke (supposedly) blew up? Last nights looked smaller and blue, whereas the other one looked longer, grey, and more military looking.

Yes, that sub looked like a little mini-sub, unless the bulk of its length was underwater. Didn't really get a good look at the sub Locke blew up, but it stands to reason they'd have more than one vehicle to get to and from the island.

And what's with having to tranquilize Juliet for her trip to the island? It couldn't be like tranq'ing someone for a car trip where they might be able to see where they're going; in a sub, she'd have no idea. Ethan said something about a difficult journey. Maybe they have to pass through the "field" of magnetic force around the island and it messes with your constitution if you're awake. Clearly, the guys who come and go frequently, like Richard (I'll always think of him as the great superhero "Batmanuel") and the late Ethan, are immune.

I didn't mean it was a shocking twist - everyone has been thinking she was a mole for quite a while. But this twist was actually done quite well. They really built her up as a sympathetic character this episode and then turned it around at the end.

So no, it wasn't hard to see coming, but it was executed much better than I thought it would have been.

Of course it could "twist" back the other way by the end of her 'week', couldn't it, at which point she becomes so enamored with Jack that she betrays Ben.

Are you serious! ABC is going to milk this show for every dollar they can. Expect at least 2 more seasons.

Please quote the post you are responding to.

I SO wanted Sayid to go all inquisitor on her.

What a tease/setup for viewers, having Sayid ask her all of those questions (on our behalf) and then getting no answers.

Please quote the post you are responding to.my statement on the finale being a sneaky `series finale'...to much has been answered to stretch the show another year.

this episode was ruined for me two minutes into it when Sayid finally started asking all the questions we want to know and Jack tells him to stop because Juliette needs time to answer them... :rolleyes: WTF! :mad:

So, why be on the island? Well, nobody gets sick, but you can't make any babies. I'm assuming the Others have ideas about out what keeps people from getting sick - or at least how to exploit the healing properties of the island. But, they need to fix the baby-making problem - and haven't.

Mitch
This question bothers me as well. On the other hand, that could be the sacrifice you make. Living a life without illness but the tradeoff is the inability to have children. Perhaps the island is the Holy Grail?

I am convinced that the sub is not really a sub. Until I see that bad boy actually move, as far as I am concerend, it is a ruse.

I have also become a big fan of Elizabeth Mitchell. I think her acting is top notch.

I still can't figure out Juliet's angle though. It's almost like she's two different people. In the flashbacks, she's kind of an innocent naif who got wrapped up in this thing because of her vanity and, well, dittziness. Then, in "real life", she's fully on board with whatever mischief Ben's got planned (unless she really wanted Jack to kill him during the operation, but who knows?). Maybe she's just going along because Ben and "Jacob" have the power to bring her sister's cancer back (thus, she's being blackmailed)? Or maybe she's spent some time in that brainwashing room...?

my statement on the finale being a sneaky `series finale'...to much has been answered to stretch the show another year.

My advice Willie: don't put any money down on that position. ;)

She really does, incredible beauty that really seems to come out on screen, and although I'll probably be tar'ed and feathered for saying it, but she's got it all over Kate in the natural beauty department.

I'll start boiling the tar. Somebody get the feathers. :D

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/836/lostms6.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/836/lostms6.jpg)
:D

Nice! ;)

This question bothers me as well. On the other hand, that could be the sacrifice you make. Living a life without illness but the tradeoff is the inability to have children. Perhaps the island is the Holy Grail?

For men maybe...


I have also become a big fan of Elizabeth Mitchell. I think her acting is top notch.

I was thinking the same of Michael Emerson last night. Really compelling actor.

So, let me get this straight. None of the women on the island can become preggers, so that explains why the "others" are so interested in little kids.

Ben also made the claim that the island has healing properties (which explains Locke---but doesn't explain Sun) yet Ben gets a tumor. Yet they have a cure for cancer that they can use off island to cure Juliet's sister. But Ben had a tumor requiring Jack's intervention.

....and Juliet was doing Goodwin?

Of course it could "twist" back the other way by the end of her 'week', couldn't it, at which point she becomes so enamored with Jack that she betrays Ben.

Not while they have her sister and nephew under observation. I suspect she knows that Ben and Jacob (whoever the heck he is) would resort to any means to keep her on the island.

Not while they have her sister and nephew under observation. I suspect she knows that Ben and Jacob (whoever the heck he is) would resort to any means to keep her on the island.

Don't you suppose she and Jack will come up with a "plan"?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in an earlier episode, didn't Ben say he's been on the island his entire life? Which to me, means he was born there. Which means that, at one time, babies could be born on the island without scientific assistance...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in an earlier episode, didn't Ben say he's been on the island his entire life? Which to me, means he was born there. Which means that, at one time, babies could be born on the island without scientific assistance...
He could have also meant his entire adult life. Or maybe he came when he was a child. There's really no way to know for sure without further explanation.

I didn't mean it was a shocking twist - everyone has been thinking she was a mole for quite a while. But this twist was actually done quite well. They really built her up as a sympathetic character this episode and then turned it around at the end.

So no, it wasn't hard to see coming, but it was executed much better than I thought it would have been.

Then you'll really be surprised when we find out that Juliet is being blackmailed by Ben &Co. to do his bidding. Since Ben has the power through Jacob or whatever, to "heal" her sister, then he also must have the power to cause her harm.

What we haven't seen, is the conversation between him and Juliet to the effect that "you go along with my plan and become a mole in the Losties camp, and I will let your sister live, and you will actually get to see her again"--maybe soon.

That is...if she doesn't get killed off first. Her back story seems to be pretty much complete, without too many missing pieces, and whenever that happens to characters on the show they, seem to get killed off.

He could have also meant his entire adult life. Or maybe he came when he was a child. There's really no way to know for sure without further explanation.

He clearly said he had spent his entire life on the island, never been off it. That means he was born there.

He could have also meant his entire adult life. Or maybe he came when he was a child. There's really no way to know for sure without further explanation.

If you say you've lived here your entire life, it pretty much means your entire life. Otherwise you'd say "most" of your entire life. That's pretty straight forward. But then of course we know he lies.

[QUOTE=Suddy]Then you'll really be surprised when we find out that Juliet is being blackmailed by Ben &Co. to do his bidding. Since Ben has the power through Jacob or whatever, to "heal" her sister, then he also must have the power to cause her harm.

What we haven't seen, is the conversation between him and Juliet to the effect that "you go along with my plan and become a mole in the Losties camp, and I will let your sister live, and you will actually get to see her again"--maybe soon.

Ok, so I see a couple of people have beaten me to this thought.

LOST Ratings and DVRs (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10277748&&#post10277748)

Good article about LOST being DVR'd and watched over the weekend. Taking those numbers into account gives lost a more than 10% ratings jump. Thanks to Fredfa for posting it!

Jack's a real pain in the a**.

He's being quite the tool lately.

Nice job of tying the relationships of people together.

Juliette is still a puzzle to me. I wonder if she has just turned downright evil, or if she believes in whatever the "big secret" of the island and feels that it is worth using people the way Ben does. In any case, a great episode.

I'm pretty sure she just wants to go home and is doing whatever it takes to do so...but we'll see.

So you have to be sedated to get to the island? How about getting off? Does that mean Michael had trouble leaving?

They said that 'last leg' could get pretty rough...in a sub? Can't wait to see how that's done...probably in the last season :-(

this episode was ruined for me two minutes into it when Sayid finally started asking all the questions we want to know and Jack tells him to stop because Juliette needs time to answer them... :rolleyes: WTF! :mad:

I was glad to see Sayid ask the questions...and Jack being a p-whipped idiot has ceased to surprise me.

Juliette, the cost of living in our camp = answers. How hard is that?

So, let me get this straight. None of the women on the island can become preggers, so that explains why the "others" are so interested in little kids.

Ben also made the claim that the island has healing properties (which explains Locke---but doesn't explain Sun) yet Ben gets a tumor. Yet they have a cure for cancer that they can use off island to cure Juliet's sister. But Ben had a tumor requiring Jack's intervention.



Perhaps it's something in the water?

EDIT: Nevermind...Locke was healed the moment he woke up...no island water in him yet.