Correct me if I'm wrong, but in an earlier episode, didn't Ben say he's been on the island his entire life? Which to me, means he was born there. Which means that, at one time, babies could be born on the island without scientific assistance...

Perhaps they are 'immortal' and he's one of the Black Rock crew.

EDIT: Nevermind again...that still wouldn't be his 'entire life'. It's too early and I haven't had my caffeine yet :-)

Great ep though, can't wait for next week.

I was glad to see Sayid ask the questions...and Jack being a p-whipped idiot has ceased to surprise me.

I'm looking forward to Sayid giving Jack a good a** whuppin', but it probably won't happen.

He clearly said he had spent his entire life on the island, never been off it. That means he was born there.
I've spent my entire life in Virginia, doesn't mean I was born here. ;)

And the information we have now about pregnancies on the island leads to the conclusion that he *couldn't* have been born there.

Wow - who didn't know Juliette was a plant ---- AGAIN!!! :p

This whole recurring thing with the Others is starting to look like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown to kick every Thanksgiving. (I wanted to get all of this in before the multiple incredibly scintillating postings concerning DVR pricing start up again :D )

This time there was a twist. This time we know about it because they showed it to us. Ben is a manipulator who (his quote) "finds out what people care about and exploits it". There is clearly a tie in to Juliette being docile based on her sister. Also, The Others are NOT going to let her go until she finishes her work. Her two motivators are her sister and her work and they will have her working botth the Others and the Losties to get off the island.

Beofre this is all done, I think she ends up double-crossing Ben to help the Losties (and herself).

Something else I noticed about Juliette. In her pre-island flashbacks, she appears to be nervous, frightened, mousey, non-confident - pick the one you like. On the island, she has developed quite a level of confidence. They have also expended some extra effort in writing her dialog to show she is very smart. Not sure why the change has occurred.

Is the sole purpose of the Others to deal with this pregnancy issue?

Another stray thought. I don't believe Ben said women couldn't GET pregnant on the island, I believe that the pregnancy simply kills them. Having said that - did the Kate/Sawyer union set up another plot arc when we find out that Kate is pregnant because of it? Remember - Ben is looking for more mothers.

Is it possible that this whole immune system issue is what prompted the Others to kidnap the kids. As we have seen, they moved them to the little island and there were none in camp. They have stated that they are "the good guys" - is this a way to protect the kids?

Once again I am confused. On the one hand there is a sense (or at least an impression the writers wanted to give) that the Others knew the plane was coming. But the piece of them watching the crash again last night seems to show they were surprised.

When Ben sent Ethan and Goodwin off to the crash sites, he told them to come back in 3 days and "I want lists". Is it possible that they made lists of who survived and then used Mikhail's communications hut to ask for background on all of them?

So, is Jack:

a) A complete dumbass?
b) Brainwashed?
c) Secretely suspicious of Juliet and playing her?

I have trouble believing he'd let Juliet inject something into Claire if choice C were correct.

Good episode, though.

Put me "firmly" in the Juliet camp. Oh my, she's hot. Kate's a girl, "cute" best describes her; Juliet is a woman (and built like it). ;)



Yes, that sub looked like a little mini-sub, unless the bulk of its length was underwater. Didn't really get a good look at the sub Locke blew up, but it stands to reason they'd have more than one vehicle to get to and from the island.

And what's with having to tranquilize Juliet for her trip to the island? It couldn't be like tranq'ing someone for a car trip where they might be able to see where they're going; in a sub, she'd have no idea. Ethan said something about a difficult journey. Maybe they have to pass through the "field" of magnetic force around the island and it messes with your constitution if you're awake. Clearly, the guys who come and go frequently, like Richard (I'll always think of him as the great superhero "Batmanuel") and the late Ethan, are immune.

Batmanuel, what a great character. Maybel the losties should take on some sort of war chant. How about "SPOON".

this episode was ruined for me two minutes into it when Sayid finally started asking all the questions we want to know and Jack tells him to stop because Juliette needs time to answer them... :rolleyes: WTF! :mad:

I'm fairly certain that Jack did that intentionally.

He's being quite the tool lately.

To the contray, I think Jack’s finally wising up, and realizes that to be a suceesful leader, you must be capable of manipulating others as part of your strategy. ;)

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

So, is Jack:

a) A complete dumbass?
b) Brainwashed?
c) Secretely suspicious of Julet and playing her?

I have trouble believing he'd let Juliet inject something into Claire if choice C were correct.

Good episode, though.

I'll take choice c. He knows she's in cahoots with Ben yet is confident she'll come around to the losties side and in the end prove useful for them.

As others have said though, Sayid or Sawyer should have already kicked the crap outta of Jack...

When Jack told Sayid "Juliette is under my protection", Sayid was propably thinking - "He CAN'T be talking to me".

That Kate got pregnant from Sawyer is pretty interesting. It reminds me that last episode we learned that Sawyer knocked up the last girl we've seen him with. They did specifically point this out towards the end of the episode. Why? Perhaps the conned girlfriend ended up on the island, either there now or died earlier.

I've spent my entire life in Virginia, doesn't mean I was born here. ;)


What part of "entire life" (one presumes you were born alive) don't you understand? Oh, never mind..... :rolleyes:

The part I don't get is why would Juliette hold a pillow in front of her when she's sitting in bed naked? She couldn't have been cold, it's the tropics.

When Jack told Sayid "Juliette is under my protection", Sayid was propably thinking - "He CAN'T be talking to me".

Interesting that Sayid said he has renounced torture ("I don't do that anymore") but still threatened Juliet (what do you think I'll do if you don't [tell me about you and the Others]?). But, of course, the definition of "torture" has become pretty elastic these days....

The part I don't get is why would Juliette hold a pillow in front of her when she's sitting in bed naked? She couldn't have been cold, it's the tropics.

It's also prime-time OTA. Too bad the show couldn't have been on HBO; if ever there were an actress who needs to do a nude scene.... ;)

I'm looking forward to Sayid giving Jack a good a** whuppin', but it probably won't happen.

I'm back in the camp of wanting Saint Jack dead. What a twit. You're on the island for months and you don't ask your supposed friend who's an Other ANY questions? Terminal lack of curiosity. Jack is a dull boy.

The part I don't get is why would Juliette hold a pillow in front of her when she's sitting in bed naked? She couldn't have been cold, it's the tropics.

I, for one, would love to see her cold.

Is it possible that they made lists of who survived and then used Mikhail's communications hut to ask for background on all of them?

Yup! I think we can consider that another question answered.

What part of "entire life" (one presumes you were born alive) don't you understand? Oh, never mind..... :rolleyes:
The part where it's not as black and white as you assume it is. Oh, and the part where women couldn't give birth on the island before Claire.

Or maybe he was created by smokey!

..
Another stray thought. I don't believe Ben said women couldn't GET pregnant on the island, I believe that the pregnancy simply kills them. Having said that - did the Kate/Sawyer union set up another plot arc when we find out that Kate is pregnant because of it? Remember - Ben is looking for more mothers.

..


Wow. That's a great thought. I hadn't thought of that. Interesting ...

I just had a fleeting thought with absolutely no facts to back it up whatsoever: Could this island be the Garden of Eden?

Hold the phone..whats this about Kate being pregnant by Sawyer?

So, is Jack:

a) A complete dumbass?
b) Brainwashed?
c) Secretely suspicious of Juliet and playing her?

I have trouble believing he'd let Juliet inject something into Claire if choice C were correct.

Good episode, though.


"a".

I hope they kill him off. I am sooo tired of his character at this point. I know it will never happen, but he is about as annoying a character as there can be to me now ..

OK another episode and more answers answered but a few more questions. Still a must see show and I love that they have been revealing a lot the past few weeks. I don't expect them toi show everything because what fun would that be.

The big one question from last night. Who is Juliet playing? Jack or Ben?

Ben & Juliet were never a couple as some here thought, she was was sdoing the nasty with Goodwin. Which can increase her hatred for the LOSTIES. Remember they killed her Lover.

No body can survive child birth, but they didn't mention if the children survived. If they didn't then it does make sense whyn they took the children. They can test the children for antibodies that help them combat what ever illness that befalls the pregos.

Jack knew about Juliet taking taking Kate in the woods and handcuffing herself to her. Question is, How much does he really know? Have they brainwashed him? Rememeber how easy they brainwashed Michael, with a promise of freedom for him and Walt. Maybe the same promise for him and Juliet when they get the info they need "in a week" like Ben said.

Why did Said and Swayer let her get away so fast? I understand being shocked that she knew so much about both of them but they are stronger then that, it shouldn't have fazed them to the point of letting her go.

If Ben can cure cancer, why was he not able to cure him self? I understand the island has some healing powers, which didn't work on Ben, but Juliet's sister was never on the island, but he did send someone to the mainland to cure here. So there must be some formula somewhere that he could have used on himself.

Interesting that Sayid said he has renounced torture ("I don't do that anymore") but still threatened Juliet (what do you think I'll do if you don't [tell me about you and the Others]?). But, of course, the definition of "torture" has become pretty elastic these days....

He threatened to kill her if he didn't tell him what was going on. Not like that'll solve anything...

Ben & Juliet were never a couple as some here thought, she was was sdoing the nasty with Goodwin. Which can increase her hatred for the LOSTIES. Remember they killed her Lover.

If i'm not mistaken, all Tailies (the ones responsible for Goodwins death) are 'dead' or we haven't seen them all season (Bernard).


I also find it interesting that Juliette said that Ethan 'took matters into his own hands' that she didn't agree with when he took Claire. Of course, that could be Juliette playing the Losties....

Two observations:

I thought it was quite touching when Sawyer and Kate reunited. Kate showed real affection for Sawyer, and vice versa.

Ben made quite a point of saying (and proving) to Juliette that he "keeps his word" re saving her sister.

good points nutty...

I agree that Juliet is going along with Ben's plan simply to get off the island. Something tells me that they doctored the paperwork for Juliette's sister, and that the cancer never did come back, thus she was never cured by Jacob's group. But by telling Juliet this, and showing her her sister and niece/nephew, it'll give Juliette more incentive to follow along as a means to get off the island. But still, I don't know if I can trust Juliette at all, she's telling everyone that she just performs Medical Research, but had no problem diagnosing Ben's tumor...

I think Jack's been brainwashed ala Michael, and we'll find that it's not just Juliette but Jack who have led the others to their camp. B T W why haven't anyone asked Jack why he was so friendly with the others on the island, like playing football, and the like ?

How long will it be before Juliette realizes that Sun is pregnant, and another target for the Other's experiments ?

Does anyone have a screenshot of the newspaper headlines when Ben showed Juliet her sister?http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7634/lostpaperld9.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7634/lostpaperld9.jpg)

I think Jack's been brainwashed ala Michael, and we'll find that it's not just Juliette but Jack who have led the others to their camp. B T W why haven't anyone asked Jack why he was so friendly with the others on the island, like playing football, and the like ?


Didn't he tell Kate that he was 'playing their game' so he could get off the island?


Another point i've seen, anyone find it strange that whenever the Others talk about the Losties, they seem to always refer to them by their last names...

How long will it be before Juliette realizes that Sun is pregnant, and another target for the Other's experiments ?

I bet Kate gives her that info...trying to 'help' Sun. Or, the others already know and is the reason why they are coming in a week.

When Jack told Sayid "Juliette is under my protection", Sayid was propably thinking - "He CAN'T be talking to me".

LOL I thought the same thing. Sayid is being very patient with Jack.

If Ben can cure cancer, why was he not able to cure him self? I understand the island has some healing powers, which didn't work on Ben, but Juliet's sister was never on the island, but he did send someone to the mainland to cure here. So there must be some formula somewhere that he could have used on himself.

Yeah, or her sister's cancer never returned to begin with...

Ben shows her reports of someone with cancer, but leads Juliette to believe it's her sister, then promises her a cure if she stays, all the meanwhile her sister has the baby and life goes on as it would. Pretty easy to show her a cured sister at that point...

Ben is, afterall, the master manipulator.

The big one question from last night. Who is Juliet playing? Jack or Ben?

More importantly, Jack is playing Juliet, although it may ultimately prove advantageous for both of them.

I have no doubt that Juliet does not trust Ben , and is certain she will never be going home, no matter what he tells her. OTOH, there is at least a CHANCE for her to get home, if she can integrate her knowlegde of the Losties and of the Others, to help create a way back home.

So in essence, Juliet is playing BOTH Jack and Ben.

____________________________________________________________ _
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

good points nutty...


I think Jack's been brainwashed ala Michael, and we'll find that it's not just Juliette but Jack who have led the others to their camp. B T W why haven't anyone asked Jack why he was so friendly with the others on the island, like playing football, and the like ?

How long will it be before Juliette realizes that Sun is pregnant, and another target for the Other's experiments ?

I think one of the LOSTIES (Kate?) said something lile do you want to talk about it and he said he just played along and stayed under the radar until it was time to leave.

Sun being pregnant is the only thing that i can think of that the LOSTIES have of value that would require a mole ala Juliet. Well I guess they have more test subjects as well since there are probably 15-20 women of child bearing age among them.

O
Jack knew about Juliet taking taking Kate in the woods and handcuffing herself to her. Question is, How much does he really know? Have they brainwashed him? Rememeber how easy they brainwashed Michael, with a promise of freedom for him and Walt. Maybe the same promise for him and Juliet when they get the info they need "in a week" like Ben said.

Why would Ben need to send Juliet back with Jack, if Jack was already brainwashed?

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

It's also prime-time OTA. Too bad the show couldn't have been on HBO; if ever there were an actress who needs to do a nude scene.... ;)

There is a movie called "Gia" you should check out:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123865/

A few points that I think people are missing:

Ben could have been born there. Just not conceived there. After the operating room scene, Juliette says the problem starts at conception.
Therefore, if the baby is conceived off-island there shouldn't be any problems.
For example, Claire had no problems with the baby. Last night's problems were planted by the Others.

If Sun got pregnant from Korean Kojak, then she should be fine.

If, as people are starting to think, Kate got knocked up in the cage match with Sawyer, well, then Kate's in trouble.

Finally, I think it's important to remember that when Ben said he has cancer, Juliette corrected him that it was a tumor. I think it's part of an elaborate ruse - Ben was not going to die - regardless of what Dr. Saint Jack said. Again, what this ruse is about, I have no idea.



Mitch

Yeah, or her sister's cancer never returned to begin with...

Ben shows her reports of someone with cancer, but leads Juliette to believe it's her sister, then promises her a cure if she stays, all the meanwhile her sister has the baby and life goes on as it would. Pretty easy to show her a cured sister at that point...

Ben is, afterall, the master manipulator.

That's what we thought when that scene aired. Juliet is being played by Ben, and her sister's cancer never returned. That makes the most sense.

And they know that Sun is preggers because of the blood samples taken by Ethan. So that's what this plan is about - they want Sun in order to continue their fertility experiments, and Juliet's role is to either kidnap Sun herself or facilitate it over the next week.

Perhaps the reason Claire was able to successfully give birth is because her pregnancy was so far along when she arrived on the island...? Perhaps the fatalities result only in the very earliest stages of pregnancy; get past that and you're home free.

And they know that Sun is preggers because of the blood samples taken by Ethan.

When did Ethan get blood samples of Sun?

Perhaps the reason Claire was able to successfully give birth is because her pregnancy was so far along when she arrived on the island...? Perhaps the fatalities result only in the very earliest stages of pregnancy; get past that and you're home free.

Juliet said this...she thought the problem begins at conception.

There is a movie called "Gia" you should check out:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123865/

Been awhile since I've seen it - I remember Angelina's nude scene (How could I forget? Oh, my!), but don't remember Elizabeth having one too....

When did Ethan get blood samples of Sun?

They covered this - during the first few nights after the crash before Hurley caught on to him, he got samples from nearly everybody (or maybe it was just the women?).

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/836/lostms6.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/836/lostms6.jpg)

Thanks for that... :D

Yup! I think we can consider that another question answered.

No, we can't, because a background check does not explain how Juliet knew that Sawyer gunned down a man in cold blood the day before getting on the plane. There is still more to this. Whether it ever gets explained or not is another matter. This may be the writers attempting to answer this question with some finality and move on to something else, but if this is the answer to the "lists" in its entirety then I'm calling shenanigans.

Is the sole purpose of the Others to deal with this pregnancy issue?

Another stray thought. I don't believe Ben said women couldn't GET pregnant on the island, I believe that the pregnancy simply kills them. Having said that - did the Kate/Sawyer union set up another plot arc when we find out that Kate is pregnant because of it? Remember - Ben is looking for more mothers.


In possible support of Ben wanting Kate to get pregnant and "allowing" her to get out, go to Sawyer and nature took it's course: remember when they were first kidnapped and she was brought out to the beach to have breakfast with Ben? I wonder if they were injecting her with fertility drugs to enhance the chance that she'd become pregnant.

They covered this - during the first few nights after the crash before Hurley caught on to him, he got samples from nearly everybody (or maybe it was just the women?).

I thought it was just Claire.

So Ben doesn't like being called a liar. Have we seen him actually lie yet? Is it possible that with the exception of pretending to be Henry, we can take Ben at his word?

No, we can't, because a background check does not explain how Juliet knew that Sawyer gunned down a man in cold blood the day before getting on the plane. There is still more to this. Whether it ever gets explained or not is another matter. This may be the writers attempting to answer this question with some finality and move on to something else, but if this is the answer to the "lists" in its entirety then I'm calling shenanigans.

I agree. There has to be more to their extensive knowledge of the Losties than just a super-duper Google seach could provide. Maybe Smoky has scanned them all, "seen" their secrets, and revealed it all to the Others in order to enhance the knowledge gained from the afore-mentioned super-duper Google search.

So Ben doesn't like being called a liar. Have we seen him actually lie yet? Is it possible that with the exception of pretending to be Henry, we can take Ben at his word?

I think it's more that Ben's position as Leader of the Others (or, first lieutenant if "Jacob" is actually the real leader) is contingent on them thinking he doesn't lie. He mentioned something to that effect. Of course, he'll lie 'till the cows come home if it suits his purpose; he just has to keep the other Others from finding out.

[Blinders off]

I missed the episode last night due to work, and went up on ABC.com to watch it online. The episode is not yet up on their site, or even iTunes !! What gives? This is so strange. I don't want to read any posts discussing the episode lest it should spoil it for me. Could someone PM me what might be going on? Thanks !

[Blinders back on]

I presume this is a production error. But then again, maybe not.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rh5U5QPyjtI/AAAAAAAAD-M/3Iiqn92vvrs/s1600-h/racheschartmalel.jpg

I presume this is a production error. But then again, maybe not.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rh5U5QPyjtI/AAAAAAAAD-M/3Iiqn92vvrs/s1600-h/racheschartmalel.jpg

Whoa, that's pretty obvious! In HD, that's legible.

Errr.....there are 5 episodes (days left) next week is next season.


Six episodes left

I thought it was just Claire.


It was

If you say you've lived here your entire life, it pretty much means your entire life. Otherwise you'd say "most" of your entire life. That's pretty straight forward. But then of course we know he lies.
I think I know where I was born but I don't remember it happening. If people told me I was born on an island which is the only place I remember living, I'd have to believe them.

I presume this is a production error. But then again, maybe not.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rh5U5QPyjtI/AAAAAAAAD-M/3Iiqn92vvrs/s1600-h/racheschartmalel.jpg
Now we know why her "sister" couldn't conceive. Juliet must be a pretty good medical researcher to pull that one off :D

I wonder if Jacob is some strange guy with four toes, he seems sort of mystical when Ben speaks of him and the others react. If he's just some dude, I'm going to be bummed. All this time we were lead to believe that the others were mysterious but now they "almost" seem normal.

Whoa, that's pretty obvious! In HD, that's legible.

Yeah, that was a good catch.

I think it's more that Ben's position as Leader of the Others (or, first lieutenant if "Jacob" is actually the real leader) is contingent on them thinking he doesn't lie. He mentioned something to that effect. Of course, he'll lie 'till the cows come home if it suits his purpose; he just has to keep the other Others from finding out.

I agree, but are there any instances where we have been shown that he lied to anyone? Locke, Jack, Kate or Sawyer? The implant (in Jack or Sawyer I can't remember which) comes to mind, but he confessed that that was just a ruse pretty quickly.

Just because he is a manipulator, doesn't impede him from being the fact bearer of the show.

So Ben doesn't like being called a liar. Have we seen him actually lie yet?
Sawyer and the dead bunny is one example.

In possible support of Ben wanting Kate to get pregnant and "allowing" her to get out, go to Sawyer and nature took it's course: remember when they were first kidnapped and she was brought out to the beach to have breakfast with Ben? I wonder if they were injecting her with fertility drugs to enhance the chance that she'd become pregnant.

That and having her clean up and wear a short dress. I'm in the camp that believes Kate and Sawyer were brought with Jack to the Others' camp so that the two would be unknowingly coerced into having sex so that:

A. Jack would see it and it would create the reaction it did (Jack performs the surgery)

B. It would boost ratings or at least get a bunch of people on message boards discussing it. (mission accomplished)

C. Possibly get Kate pregnant. (after last night's episode, this could be possible)

I'll bet Ben was disappointed in all the Lostie men that couldn't close the deal with Kate until he pulled the strings like a puppetmaster. ;)

I want to know how an accomplished researcher like Juliet could tell that her sister's cancer came out of remission from reading EKG strips. Thats pure genius. I never learned that one in med school.

A few points that I think people are missing:

Ben could have been born there. Just not conceived there. After the operating room scene, Juliette says the problem starts at conception.
Therefore, if the baby is conceived off-island there shouldn't be any problems.
For example, Claire had no problems with the baby. Last night's problems were planted by the Others.

If Sun got pregnant from Korean Kojak, then she should be fine.

If, as people are starting to think, Kate got knocked up in the cage match with Sawyer, well, then Kate's in trouble.

Finally, I think it's important to remember that when Ben said he has cancer, Juliette corrected him that it was a tumor. I think it's part of an elaborate ruse - Ben was not going to die - regardless of what Dr. Saint Jack said. Again, what this ruse is about, I have no idea.



Mitch
If all of that is true, why were they ever concerned in the first place about Claire's baby?

Whatever happened to "The Numbers"???

How does one do "inviso-text" (text that must be highlighted to see) on these boards?

There was something I wanted to post but is spoiler-ish. Have seen other spoiler material in hidden text here before.

this discussion is all well and good but what the hell is going on

is mittelos some kind of cult that is trying to cure infertility? That's the big question

if we're going to have women getting pregnant each season, it's going to be annoying.

Too much info to process! But riddle me this cause I forget the story with Russo and her baby (Alex). Was Russo prego when they came to the island or brought Alex with them? Or got preggo on the island and is healthy? If she was prego or got prego after, then what the???

How does one do "inviso-text" (text that must be highlighted to see) on these boards?

There was something I wanted to post but is spoiler-ish. Have seen other spoiler material in hidden text here before.Put in front of the text that you want to hide and after it.

C. Possibly get Kate pregnant. (after last night's episode, this could be possible)


I must have missed something. What in the last episode makes us think that Kate might be pregnant?

I want to know how an accomplished researcher like Juliet could tell that her sister's cancer came out of remission from reading EKG strips. Thats pure genius. I never learned that one in med school.http://www.cardiovascularultrasound.com/content/5/1/4
Cancer therapy has shown terrific progress leading to important reduction of morbidity and mortality of several kinds of cancer. The therapeutic management of oncologic patients includes combinations of drugs, radiation therapy and surgery. Many of these therapies produce adverse cardiovascular complications which may negatively affect both the quality of life and the prognosis. For several years the most common noninvasive method of monitoring cardiotoxicity has been represented by radionuclide ventriculography while other tests as effort EKG and stress myocardial perfusion imaging may detect ischemic complications, and 24-hour Holter monitoring unmask suspected arrhythmias. Also biomarkers such as troponine I and T and B-type natriuretic peptide may be useful for early detection of cardiotoxicity. Today, the widely used non-invasive method of monitoring cardiotoxicity of cancer therapy is, however, represented by Doppler-echocardiography which allows to identify the main forms of cardiac complications of cancer therapy: left ventricular (systolic and diastolic) dysfunction, valve heart disease, pericarditis and pericardial effusion, carotid artery lesions. Advanced ultrasound tools, as Integrated Backscatter and Tissue Doppler, but also simple ultrasound detection of "lung comet" on the anterior and lateral chest can be helpful for early, subclinical diagnosis of cardiac involvement. Serial Doppler echocardiographic evaluation has to be encouraged in the oncologic patients, before, during and even late after therapy completion. This is crucial when using anthracyclines, which have early but, most importantly, late, cumulative cardiac toxicity. The echocardiographic monitoring appears even indispensable after radiation therapy, whose detrimental effects may appear several years after the end of irradiation.

Juliet has a different kind of beauty, almost angelic. Kate, O.T.O.H. has a younger, freckle face, upturned nose but with a body look. Each is different both both are most certainly "do-able"!
Did anyone else notice that the sub last night did not look like the sub Locke (supposedly) blew up? Last nights looked smaller and blue, whereas the other one looked longer, grey, and more military looking.
if it comes to looks, I am sorry to say hands down would be Claire. You can not go wrong with a beauty with an accent.
The argument will never be solved until we see all three in a bikini. But there is no need for Juliet or Claire to be in a bikini on the island. One's a mother and the other is an "other"

If all of that is true, why were they ever concerned in the first place about Claire's baby?Did you notice when Charlie was holding the baby last night?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7533/4toesjd4.jpg

Too much info to process! But riddle me this cause I forget the story with Russo and her baby (Alex). Was Russo prego when they came to the island or brought Alex with them? Or got preggo on the island and is healthy? If she was prego or got prego after, then what the???

Finally a mention of Rousseau who maybe was pregnant on the island. Then what about all Rousseau's colleagues who got sick or did she make that up. So the island has healing and sickening power??

How does one do "inviso-text" (text that must be highlighted to see) on these boards?

There was something I wanted to post but is spoiler-ish. Have seen other spoiler material in hidden text here before.

Spoilers, even with Spoiler Tags, aren't allowed on this forum. THe problem is, that when people get email notifications, the spoilers aren't hidden. There is a LOST spoiler thread somewhere in the HD Programming forum.

Did you notice when Charlie was holding the baby last night?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7533/4toesjd4.jpg

OMG WTF

Why would Ben need to send Juliet back with Jack, if Jack was already brainwashed?

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind
because she is the baby doctor and she knows Claire had a happy and healthy baby and she knows that Sun is pregnant becuase Jack let it be known. This way she can sneak over and do some test on both when they are sleeping like Ethan did. While also being "an outcast" she can make herself look LOST and gain their trust.

Hold the phone..whats this about Kate being pregnant by Sawyer?

Just to clarify - I didn't say Kate IS preggers. I was speculating that it wouldn't be much of a trip to see a Kate pregnancy developed as interesting plot twist based on the way the story has (sloooowly) progressed, especially since Juliette's back story last night provided great detail around the whole fertility/pregnancy expertise thing. She will need all of that expertise for something, and I don't think it's intended to help Sun (see below).

Since they moved the kids to the little island, ostensibly to protect them, maybe it is outside the influence of the big island. If so, it might be the safe place to allow Kate to conceive. This speculation is based on why the medical facilities are not on the big island - the little island is safe/outside the influence of the big islands anomalies?

I might even go a little further (again - pure speculation) and suggest that if Kate does end up being pregnant that Jack & Juliette will team up to find the miraculous cure to save her, thereby restoring Jack to whatever good graces he fell from and showing Juliette to be on the side of the losties. In this scenario, it's likely we would lose Sun in a failed attempt to save her, making the saving of Kate that much more tension filled.

This whole theory set is being fueled by association with my close personal friend Jack Daniels. :D

http://www.cardiovascularultrasound.com/content/5/1/4

The cardiovascular testing they detail in the passage is to detect complications from the cancer chemotherapeutic drugs to other organs such as the heart. The tests do not detect whether the cancer has returned but if the doctors caused other incidental organ damage from the meds given to fight the cancer.

The cardiovascular testing they detail in the passage is to detect complications from the cancer chemotherapeutic drugs to other organs such as the heart. The tests do not detect whether the cancer has returned but if the doctors caused other incidental organ damage from the meds given to fight the cancer.So is it improbable (or any more improbable than 100's of other things on this show) that the top tests in her sister's medical records could be recent EKG results to confirm that any cancer treatments did not cause damage (other than the pesky sex change)?

I'm going to admit that I haven't read every one of the 22,000+ posts here, but I'm wondering (as he puts on his flame defying fireman's suit) what has happened to the island's magnetic disturbance build up/discharge feature since the computer used to enter the controlling number's was vaporized?

I agree. There has to be more to their extensive knowledge of the Losties than just a super-duper Google seach could provide. Maybe Smoky has scanned them all, "seen" their secrets, and revealed it all to the Others in order to enhance the knowledge gained from the afore-mentioned super-duper Google search.
well, if there is really a technology out there that can you for all your personal secrets(bones in the closet), we are all screwed. You know every women on earth would buy it and use it on the first date. At least the men don't have to waste money on the hunt!!

Do you guys really think that would be the case? Even then Julieteknew about smokey, but she also knew it was an uncontainable issue from the island. She knew how to stop it, but do you really think smokey and the others share notes?

I'm going to admit that I haven't read every one of the 22,000+ posts here, but I'm wondering (as he puts on his flame defying fireman's suit) what has happened to the island's magnetic disturbance build up/discharge feature since the computer used to enter the controlling number's was vaporized?
Only if you had a free weekend to read everything, even then you might be 10,000 post short. It is the understanding that the island is still invisable. All communications was loss, so they have no communications to the outside world. But I am on the assumption that the hatch was a test area for studying, pressing the button did have meaning but not "saving the world" meaning. Plus by Desmond turning the key all the excess let out(purple sky) and now it is run by another hatch or was stabilized by the turning the key.

OMG WTF
no way!!!! is that a true pic? You are good, I would have never noticed that. But why would no one mention it after about "2 months" or over 30 episodes. I think you are F!@#$ing with us Iteki. I know you are a real fan so dispite my doubt the pic is real.

I must have missed something. What in the last episode makes us think that Kate might be pregnant?

Nothing in the episode confirmed or really suspicioned the fact. I was just speculating based on the fact that the Others need child-bearing women for their experiment. Other than to force a reaction from Jack, what other reason was there to coerce Sawyer and Kate into having sex?

I saw other posting theories, and I thought it looked like fun. :D

The Dharma folks contained the electromagnetic energy as part of an experiment in using it's power as an energy source. But in doing so started a chain reaction that had to be discharged every 108 minutes. They built in a failsafe that allowed them to do a massive discharge that would allow the energy to go back into it's natural state. That's what Desmond did when he turned the key and the sky turned purple.

Why they didn't do it in the first place (once they realized their error) is beyond me however.

Technically they WERE saving the world, for if the energy was allowed to build without anything to stop it, lord knows what it might have done.

no way!!!! is that a true pic? You are good, I would have never noticed that. But why would no one mention it after about "2 months" or over 30 episodes. I think you are F!@#$ing with us Iteki. I know you are a real fan so dispite my doubt the pic is real.

I didn't post the pic, I'm just reacting to someone else's post. I have no idea if it's legit or not. I still have the ep on DVR, I'll check it tonight.

Pretty sure he was kidding around...that's not a screencap from Lost.

I believe Rousseau gave birth on the island, I mean how much sense does it take to take an infant on a research vessel? I can't remember the details of her story from season 1 but pretty sure she'd be an exception. So the implications of this are:

1) Juliet wasn't telling the complete truth about the pregnancy issues on the island, or she wasn't told the complete truth. She wasn't telling the truth about why Claire got ill... it's possible something is being done to the women which wasn't done to Rousseau.

2) Whatever is causing the problems with pregnancy on the island ocurred after Rousseau gave birth.

3) Rousseau did something which allowed her to be an exception, though I'm sure it wasn't pumping herself with the same meds Claire was pumped with.

4) The writers screwed up and completely forgot about Rousseau.

Sawyer and the dead bunny is one example.
How did he lie here? He just played Sawyer and then showed him the bunny is still alive. I think the poster above(don't remember who) is right. Has he ever lied to the Losties? Other then being Henry Gale, It seems like he is being truthful to everyone.

Other than to force a reaction from Jack, what other reason was there to coerce Sawyer and Kate into having sex?


I, for one, would not need to be coerced.

(Do not show this post to wife)

How did he lie here? He just played Sawyer and then showed him the bunny is still alive. I think the poster above(don't remember who) is right. Has he ever lied to the Losties? Other then being Henry Gale, It seems like he is being truthful to everyone.

I thought that he lied when he told Locke that he never entered the numbers into the computer in the un-squished hatch. He did tell Locke that he did not enter the numbers; reasoning said he must have entered the numbers or the hatch would have imploded at that point.

well, if there is really a technology out there that can you for all your personal secrets(bones in the closet), we are all screwed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

And everyone knows that on TV, you always get pregnant the very first time you have sex with someone. So, of course Kate is knocked up by Sawyer. :p

How did he lie here? He just played Sawyer and then showed him the bunny is still alive. I think the poster above(don't remember who) is right. Has he ever lied to the Losties? Other then being Henry Gale, It seems like he is being truthful to everyone.


He specifically told Sawyer that both he and the bunny had pacemakers implanted that would explode after a certain heart rate. The fact that he later told the truth about it doesn't mean he didn't lie in the first place.

Playing catch-up - Just some thoughts about last night's show.

In the flashback, Juliet said she thought the problem with the dying mothers was something that happened at conception. She wanted to get someone who got pregnant off the island to test her theory. Claire ended up being that person and proved her theory (since her illness last night was induced, not due to the pregnancy)

Ben could have been born on the island. Either his mom got pregnant off the island and had no problems, or perhaps she died during childbirth. They never really make it clear if the babies survive.

We now pretty much know that the Others took the children to be adopted by the childless island couples. This explains Ben taking Alex as his own daughter.

Juliet knowing about Sawyer killing the guy the day before the flight can have several possible explanations:

1 - The Others are mind-readers.

2 - The Others were spying on the Losties pre-flight (and this implies they somehow caused the plane to go off coarse and crash, but not killing the people they were spying on).

3 - Sawyer is a wanted man - the authorities in Australia somehow solved the murder and somewhere along the line the Russian watched on CNN the story of how a passenger from the missing Oceanic Flight is wanted for an Australian murder.


I'm not sure what to think of Ben's tumor. That does seem to be a mystery to him as well.
I have my suspicions about Juliette's sister really having cancer again.

WHO IS JACOB? I think that will be the next big mystery now that we are getting to know the Others a bit more.

Hmm - the thought just occured to me.

I think Ben did falsely tell Juliette that her sister's cancer came back and that they made her better.

It parallels how they got Claire "sick" then made her better in order to gain trust.

What was the airline name that Juliette and handlers took? Is there maybe an anagram there?

I think Jacob's last name is McGuffin.

I, for one, would not need to be coerced.


No kidding! All the men back at the Dharma/Other lounge must have been laughing their butts off while watching these Lostie men. Until Ben manipulated Kate and Sawyer into having sex, Jin had been the only Lostie male to score.


(Do not show this post to wife)

As Chick from "Bob & Tom" says, "never take pictures or videos; never write anything down. Deny, Deny, Deny."


By the way, Kate and Claire are good looking, but put me in the Juliet fan club. She is gorgeous. I just wish that her character didn't have that weird frown on here face most of the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
I see how this could be used, but if Said or Sawyer weren't on any watch list how would they know about the killings. Said would make sense. Sawyers killng being the biggest question. Also that think can find out about a lot but many of us have bones in the closet that are hidden deep.

Spoilers, even with Spoiler Tags, aren't allowed on this forum. THe problem is, that when people get email notifications, the spoilers aren't hidden. There is a LOST spoiler thread somewhere in the HD Programming forum.

Is this allowed?

WARNING:THIS LINK WILL TAKE YOU TO THE LOST SPOILERS THREAD

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10283230&&#post10283230

A link to the LOST Spoilers thread that I dug up. Just had to share some info I came across recently dealing with the remainder of this season. Doesn't actually spoil anything that will take place on upcoming episodes, just gives some food for thought/contemplation/theories on where S3 will take us.

Click link at your own risk! ;)

What was the airline name that Juliette and handlers took? Is there maybe an anagram there?

I think Jacob's last name is McGuffin.

It's an anagram for Earhart (Herarat) (possibly as in Amelia). Not my work, it's been posted on various boards.

No kidding! All the men back at the Dharma/Other lounge must have been laughing their butts off while watching these Lostie men. Until Ben manipulated Kate and Sawyer into having sex, Jin had been the only Lostie male to score.

I think you may have forgotten about Sayid and Shannon.

And Sawyer and Ana Lucia...

I think you may have forgotten about Sayid and Shannon.

And Sawyer and Ana Lucia. -- David

Hmm Kate better watch out. Might be like the teen slasher movies - do it and you die.

Now we know why her "sister" couldn't conceive. Juliet must be a pretty good medical researcher to pull that one off :D

She was able to pull it off on a field mouse!

How did he lie here? He just played Sawyer and then showed him the bunny is still alive.
How do you "play" someone without lying to them?

Benry told Sawyer that they surgically implanted something in his heart that will make him die if his heart beats too fast. It was a total lie and Benry enjoyed every second of it.

WHO IS JACOB? I think that will be the next big mystery now that we are getting to know the Others a bit more.
Then the question after that will be who does Jacob work for, and who does that guy work for, and...

Oh wait, I thought this was the 24 thread.

anyone else having problems wit lost in HD? the last minute of the show goes to sidebars

anyone else having problems wit lost in HD? the last minute of the show goes to sidebars

Your local ABC station is cutting off HD precisely at 11:00, instead of actually watching the show to see when it ends if it goes over; that's my guess. Maybe it's automated somehow. Mine does the same thing; very annoying.

I thought that he lied when he told Locke that he never entered the numbers into the computer in the un-squished hatch. He did tell Locke that he did not enter the numbers; reasoning said he must have entered the numbers or the hatch would have imploded at that point.

Right. We now know that was certainly another lie. The question is: did Benry know what would happen if the button wasn't pushed? If so, he probably knew one of the fallout effects would be the loss of their communications with the outside world. You'd think they would have "taken" the hatch or something just to make sure that button kept getting pushed. Makes you wonder just how much of Dharma's operation his group was aware, and unaware, of...?

i think its automates because lost never ends at 11 it ends at like 11:01

Your local ABC station is cutting off HD precisely at 11:00, instead of actually watching the show to see when it ends if it goes over; that's my guess. Maybe it's automated somehow. Mine does the same thing; very annoying.

Last night's episode was the first time in weeks that my local ABC affiliate did not cut off the HD feed @ exactly 11:00. Stayed HD until the final LOST title card appeared.

i knew that juliet was playing the losties again, but for what reason this time? and also where did the others go? including locke

Last night's episode was the first time in weeks that my local ABC affiliate did not cut off the HD feed @ exactly 11:00. Stayed HD until the final LOST title card appeared.

Ah, somebody actually started paying attention at your station. You should write them a thank-you card. :)

i get my locals out of charlotte,nc and ever week its been cut of at 11pm, its sucks, hopefully they will pick it up for S4

i get my locals out of charlotte,nc and ever week its been cut of at 11pm, its sucks, hopefully they will pick it up for S4

Because you haven't put your location in your member profile, I didn't realize your ABC affiliate was my ABC affiliate. :rolleyes:

There are a whole host of reasons why members need to list their location in their profile. This is just one of them.

sorry i just updated it,
I had Directv and had the same problem with it cutting off the last minute, but it also cut off at different times during the show too.

I now have TWC and it only cuts off the last minute of the show, still very annoying and i wish it would get fixed

I agree. There has to be more to their extensive knowledge of the Losties than just a super-duper Google seach could provide. Maybe Smoky has scanned them all, "seen" their secrets, and revealed it all to the Others in order to enhance the knowledge gained from the afore-mentioned super-duper Google search.The 'Google' thing is quite a stretch, but it (IMO) throws out the theory of Smokey's mind-reading. BTW, that was a gorgeous shot of scenery with Jules looking at the mountains from the deck of the sub.

Ah, somebody actually started paying attention at your station. You should write them a thank-you card. :)


They even stopped cutting back from commercials to SD LOST so they could run their local 11:00 news promos on screen. Used to be that ABC shows NEVER came back to HD until 1-5 minutes after returning from commercial. Like someone was asleep at the switch.

KFSN 30 in Fresno hasn't done such things lately. Guess the complaints from HD geeks were getting too loud.

i knew that juliet was playing the losties again, but for what reason this time? and also where did the others go? including locke

I got the impression (okay, more like idea) that the Others (now incl Locke) just went to hide to add to the illusion that Juliet was left behind.

Remember, now Jack fully buys into Juliet being a lostie and not an other, which means the Others have Jack and co. right where they want them.

As far as where they want, they could gone to island #2 easily.

but why would locke be a other, that wouldnt make sense at all

This may be the dumbest thing I ever post on this thread: Does anyone notice how much Henry sounds like Kevin Spacey? For those of you who record, replay any of last night's episode, it's uncanny.

Did you notice when Charlie was holding the baby last night?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7533/4toesjd4.jpg

At 13:19 into the episode, the baby very clearly has 5 toes on his right foot. And at 38:28 no question he has 5. At least this gave me another reason to watch Julliete in the bed again :eek: :D

but why would locke be a other, that wouldnt make sense at all
It would explain his unhelpful behavior at Mikhail's communication bunker, and how he seemed to have swiped the plastic explosives to blow up a sub he shouldn't have known about.

At 13:19 into the episode, the baby very clearly has 5 toes on his right foot. And at 38:28 no question he has 5. At least this gave me another reason to watch Julliete in the bed again :eek: :D
Still can't believe anyone took that picture seriously.. :D

Well, you know, I had just watched the episode online and the quality wasn't what I was used to and I couldn't believe I missed something that important and oh nevermind! :p BUT it really wouldn't suprise me if something like that happened on the island. What with smoke monsters and polar bears roaming around on a tropical island... and paralyzed ppl walking etc

This may be the dumbest thing I ever post on this thread: Does anyone notice how much Henry sounds like Kevin Spacey? For those of you who record, replay any of last night's episode, it's uncanny.

Not dumb at all. He sounds precisely like him actually. Particularly when he's upset ..

It would explain his unhelpful behavior at Mikhail's communication bunker, and how he seemed to have swiped the plastic explosives to blow up a sub he shouldn't have known about.


still doesnt really explain it, i thought he knew about the sub because he was told about it, i remember him finding out about it somehow, just dont remember how

Not dumb at all. He sounds precisely like him actually. Particularly when he's upset ..wife and I were discussing this as well last night.

wow...I just watched the episode and I expected a few responses, but 5+ pages...wow

What an amazing episode...absolute amazing...

I can't wait to see the rest

I haven't seen any mention of Sawyer's nickname for Benry: "that bug-eyed b@st@rd." Thought that was hysterical. And Richard absolutely creeps me out: his look, his mannerisms, his speech patterns--all uber-creepy.

In possible support of Ben wanting Kate to get pregnant and "allowing" her to get out, go to Sawyer and nature took it's course: remember when they were first kidnapped and she was brought out to the beach to have breakfast with Ben? I wonder if they were injecting her with fertility drugs to enhance the chance that she'd become pregnant.

On a similar note--she was handcuffed when eating with Ben, then had abrasions on her wrists when she was returned to the cages with Sawyer. It was so obvious that "something" other than breakfast happened, I assumed there was an interesting scene that we would see flashback style in a later episode. Not in the most recent Kate centered episode--maybe in a Ben one--or just another dropped red herring?

I don’ think anyone has mentioned it, but the chemistry between Juliet and Jack is really building. I think their lips will be locking in the future - which on Lost, the future could be next week or next year and still encompass only a week. I wouldn’t blame Jack, because Juliet is looking sexier and sexier to me. I found her really seductive on this week’s episode.

Glad to see others finally coming around to what I said almost 2 months ago. I’ll have to say, I might be wrong about those lips locking once Jack finds out about Juliet’s intentions.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Deltoid/95326__mitchell_l.jpg

Glad to see others finally coming around to what I said almost 2 months ago. I’ll have to say, I might be wrong about those lips locking once Jack finds out about Juliet’s intentions.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Deltoid/95326__mitchell_l.jpg

I'm giving her so much benefit of the doubt it isn't funny!

OT: Caught an episode of House the other night where she played a nun. Was a little unsettling at first after seeing her in her current role.

I don’t think anyone has mentioned it, but the chemistry between Juliet and Jack is really building. I think their lips will be locking in the future - which on Lost, the future could be next week or next year and still encompass only a week.Or maybe they will get together in some future a back story that hasn't occurred yet?

Wait a second... now I'm getting confused.

This may be the dumbest thing I ever post on this thread: Does anyone notice how much Henry sounds like Kevin Spacey? For those of you who record, replay any of last night's episode, it's uncanny.

It's funny but the only think I could think of while watching this week's episode was "Keyser Soze."

It's got to the point now where everything involving the Others is a lie and I'm getting tired of it. If they wanted to break with formula they could actually have something that can be taken at face value. I was warming up to Juliette as someone who switched sides until the end when ... surprise, surprise ... it's just another ruse. Last week's "handcuff myself to Kate" plan was stupidly convoluted and it makes even less sense after this week's "twist."

I've said it before an I'll say it again. Sayid is the only one with half a brain amongst the Losties. How many times does an Other have to infiltrate the camp and betray them before they start getting a bit paranoid? 3? 4? 5? Most of them on that plane probably worked in human resources for CTU.

I was warming up to Juliette as someone who switched sides until the end when ... surprise, surprise ... it's just another ruse. Last week's "handcuff myself to Kate" plan was stupidly convoluted and it makes even less sense after this week's "twist."

Not really. Either way, she gets taken back to the Losties camp as an infiltrator. The handcuffs were there to make sure that Kate did what was required and not run off and leave Juliet behind. Juliet couldn't then just "show up" on the beach and be accepted. Ben had a Plan A and, when Smoky scuttled that one, a Plan B - all to get his hands on Sun. Makes perfect sense in his machiavellian worldview.

Not really. Either way, she gets taken back to the Losties camp as an infiltrator. The handcuffs were there to make sure that Kate did what was required and not run off and leave Juliet behind. Juliet couldn't then just "show up" on the beach and be accepted. Ben had a Plan A and, when Smoky scuttled that one, a Plan B - all to get his hands on Sun. Makes perfect sense in his machiavellian worldview.

Or, Juliette just stays unconscious with Jack at the camp. Even better they could have just really handcuffed Jack and Juliette (and Sayid and Kate) together in the camp, instead of redundantly dragging Kate into the jungle alone. Kate was going to go back for Jack and Sayid regardless and no matter where Kate woke up Juilette was still left behind.

Ben's turning into Wile E Coyote. How long before he's making traps with a big anvil, a see saw and dressing up as a female polar bear?

I, for one, would not need to be coerced.

I'm sure she wouldn't have to be coerced into doing it with you either Phil! :rolleyes: :D

Still can't believe anyone took that picture seriously.. :D

Why not? There are so many little and very subtle nuances that this could have been overlooked by many, including myself. Posting altered images is a bunch of crap and I for one do not appreciate it. Please keep pictures to what was really shown. I'm gullible and this needs to stop!

Why not? There are so many little and very subtle nuances that this could have been overlooked by many, including myself. Posting altered images is a bunch of crap and I for one do not appreciate it. Please keep pictures to what was really shown. I'm gullible and this needs to stop!

actually that might have stumbled on some backstory by accident.

Theory:
Those that are conceived and born on the island have altered DNA. Possibly due to the "special" properties of the island. The result is that people born there are immune to disease and live longer lives. The other side effect to this genetic abnormality is that they have four toes.

Ben and Dharma/Widmore/Hanso etc are aware of the properties of the island based on archaeological findings and mythology. The four toed statue being a remnant of the ancient island dwellers. They moved to the island to uncover the secrets of the original inhabitants (digging for artifacts on the other island for example) and the key to immortality.

However they have a problem in that outsiders die during pregnancy. And that's were Jules comes in.

In other observations. Claire has a remotely detonated implant. That means that if Ben is being smart, so do Jack, Sayid, Kate, Sawyer and possibly every Other. Having the ability to kill your enemies from a distance would be a great advantage.

It's got to the point now where everything involving the Others is a lie and I'm getting tired of it. If they wanted to break with formula they could actually have something that can be taken at face value. I was warming up to Juliette as someone who switched sides until the end when ... surprise, surprise ... it's just another ruse. Last week's "handcuff myself to Kate" plan was stupidly convoluted and it makes even less sense after this week's "twist."


Lost is every man/woman for himself/herself, so I’m not surprised that anyone does anything that doesn’t serve his or her own interest.

Why not? There are so many little and very subtle nuances that this could have been overlooked by many, including myself. Posting altered images is a bunch of crap and I for one do not appreciate it. Please keep pictures to what was really shown. I'm gullible and this needs to stop!
Because it was very obvious that it was a joke and not a screencap. And don't get mad at me, I didn't post it.

Because it was very obvious that it was a joke and not a screencap. And don't get mad at me, I didn't post it.

Obvious to you but not to me. What made it obvious? It is very conceivable that Aaron may have had only 4 toes and nobody mention it in the show. What is the need to have a joke posted here?

Obvious to you but not to me. What made it obvious? It is very conceivable that Aaron may have had only 4 toes and nobody mention it in the show. What is the need to have a joke posted here?

Right; it wasn't obvious considering this is LOST we're talking about. If Clarence had included a "wink-eye" or smilie emoticon or something, then it would have been obvious. He got me too.

Did you notice when Charlie was holding the baby last night?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7533/4toesjd4.jpg

So here is the original posting. There is no "wink eye or smiley" emoticon. How would I know this is obviously a joke? My point is that there is no need for this type of BS which could easily be taken as truthful. Did everybody see the Dharma logo on the shark before that picture was posted? Once you see the picture, I assume it is accurate and not doctored to fool me.

This may be the dumbest thing I ever post on this thread: Does anyone notice how much Henry sounds like Kevin Spacey? For those of you who record, replay any of last night's episode, it's uncanny.

Reminds me of Spacey in SEVEN. The non-chalant sociopath. :eek:

So here is the original posting. There is no "wink eye or smiley" emoticon. How would I know this is obviously a joke? My point is that there is no need for this type of BS which could easily be taken as truthful. Did everybody see the Dharma logo on the shark before that picture was posted? Once you see the picture, I assume it is accurate and not doctored to fool me.

Is your post missing a wink or smiley emoticon at the end to let us know that you're kidding?

Does that photo look like it could possibly be a frame grab from the show? When has the visual style of Lost ever looked like amateur snapshot photography?

I just had a fleeting thought with absolutely no facts to back it up whatsoever: Could this island be the Garden of Eden?

I honestly don't think your theory is that far-fetched. At least to the extent that the producers have probably made the conscious connection, even if that isn't their real end-game.

The island has very Eden-like attributes, and who were those two corpses the Losties found in the cave?

I honestly don't think your theory is that far-fetched. At least to the extent that the producers have probably made the conscious connection, even if that isn't their real end-game.

The island has very Eden-like attributes, and who were those two corpses the Losties found in the cave?


Adam and Eve, silly! ;)

So here is the original posting. There is no "wink eye or smiley" emoticon. How would I know this is obviously a joke? My point is that there is no need for this type of BS which could easily be taken as truthful. Did everybody see the Dharma logo on the shark before that picture was posted? Once you see the picture, I assume it is accurate and not doctored to fool me.What happened? Did you run right out and tell all your friends that little baby Aaron only has four toes or something? That'll teach you :D.


ron

SDid everybody see the Dharma logo on the shark before that picture was posted? Once you see the picture, I assume it is accurate and not doctored to fool me.

I totally saw that logo and thought it was the coolest thing. That's back when I'd sit with my laptop to watch the show and post my thoughts in real time...

You had to know something was fishy about the toe photo since one of the first things people do with a newborn is to check the fingers and toes.

YMMV

"So it goes"
- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. (1922-2007)

Did everybody see the Dharma logo on the shark before that picture was posted? Once you see the picture, I assume it is accurate and not doctored to fool me.

I remember seeing one of the tabloid entertainment shows (ET or something) do a brief blurb on the shark with the Dharma "tattoo" after that originally aired. So yeah, it did happen. Even rewatched the epsiode 'cause I missed it the first time.

I remember seeing one of the tabloid entertainment shows (ET or something) do a brief blurb on the shark with the Dharma "tattoo" after that originally aired. So yeah, it did happen. Even rewatched the epsiode 'cause I missed it the first time.
Anyone know which exact episode this is? I missed this and I would like to check it out myself :)

Has anyone considered the possibility that the Others are responsible for Sun's pregnancy? Since Ethan was a doctor and was receiving supplies at the "drop point" that Ben referred to when he was plotting with Julliete - couldn't he have used the same method that Juliette used on her sister on Sun? I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Sun's pregnancy is another experiment by the Others.

Anyone know which exact episode this is? I missed this and I would like to check it out myself :)

It's the 2nd episode of season 2, where Sawyer and Michael are hanging on to the remnants of the raft...the camera angle is the POV from below the shark looking up. There is clearly a Dharma logo on it. How many people saw it depends on how your TV was calibrated. Those with higher contrast saw it fine, those with lower settings didn't.

still doesnt really explain it, i thought he knew about the sub because he was told about it, i remember him finding out about it somehow, just dont remember how
Ir you have Patchy's episodes re-watch them. Patchy told Locke about the sub when he was explaining the communications that they use to have to the mainland before the purple haze. Which made Locke want to destroy the sub because he could not allow a rescue because he is cured. As for this Locke being an Other now, No way, we will see in the coming weeks but he is only there because pay back is a bitch and Daddy dearest deserves some punnishment. I think Locke is all over his search for a family, because he is a leader when it comes to the LOSTIES. That episode, needs to air soon, but we will get an answer soon. There are only 6 episodes left and we all know they won't wait for the season finlae to cover it.

So here is the original posting. There is no "wink eye or smiley" emoticon. How would I know this is obviously a joke? My point is that there is no need for this type of BS which could easily be taken as truthful. Did everybody see the Dharma logo on the shark before that picture was posted? Once you see the picture, I assume it is accurate and not doctored to fool me.

The more you complain about this, the louder I laugh.

Why not? There are so many little and very subtle nuances that this could have been overlooked by many, including myself. Posting altered images is a bunch of crap and I for one do not appreciate it. Please keep pictures to what was really shown. I'm gullible and this needs to stop!
I am with you, there are so many "facts" that are visible to some but invisable to other that when they are posted we tend to beliebve them until we can confirm them ourselves. To Post fraud is just childish. We all come here to chat and entertain each other with our theories and conclussions but only with the facts can we have an intelligent debate with one another. With that said: It was a good fraking picture. Very believable. But I did say I had a problem if it was real because it would have been mentioed by someone in the camp by now.

I just read descriptions of the next 2 weeks and boy if what I read is accurate we will learn a lot in the next 2 weeks.
Just adding fire to the impatient feelings we all get after 11pm every Wed. This has been a very good second half.

I remember seeing one of the tabloid entertainment shows (ET or something) do a brief blurb on the shark with the Dharma "tattoo" after that originally aired. So yeah, it did happen. Even rewatched the epsiode 'cause I missed it the first time.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Deltoid/lostshark.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Deltoid/lost_shark.jpg

This is a desperate attempt to avoid 100 posts on DVR pricing between now and the next episode. :p

The following is speculation, NOT a spoiler.

I think Locke is working with the Others.

Here are some thoughts leading me to this conclusion (there are many examples of strange behavior from Locke, but these string together nicely):

1. Our first exposure to him shows him looking at his toes wiggling. This in the midst of crash chaos which doesn’t interest him as much as his toes.

2. We have seen that Locke is naïve, gullible and can be duped/manipulated easily. He keeps believing anything his father tells him and would be likely to believe Ben (more below) if Ben told him 1) the island cured your paralysis and 2) this island has the ability to keep you walking – but only if you stay.

3. Being on the island gives him the adventure he craves and feeds his great sense of self worth as a leader/hunter/macho guy.

4. With the above in mind, remember Ben told Juliette that he finds out what someone cares about and exploits it.

5. Locke is never mentioned as being on a list.

6. He tends to look like he is deep in thought before he gives vague, cryptic answers to questions about the island/happenings. (choosing his words carefully to avoid giving himself away?).

7. He always seems to be looking inward towards the island rather than outward towards escape. He has stated he doesn’t want to leave the island. Along with this, he does things that make him appear to be a loose cannon (blows up hatch, blows up sub) but there is likely a purpose for all of it if you buy into this argument.

8. He never seems to get into harm’s way like the other losties. In fact, he always seems to be elsewhere when the fun begins. ( Locke and Smokey got nose to nose and Smokey just kept going. Smokey grabbed Locke at one point and tried to drag him down a hole; when Jack was trying to pull him back, he asked Jack to let go – “it was alright”. --- Smokey being controlled?).

9. Locke didn’t seem to be surprised by the existence of the ranch, even coming up with some C4 that was in the basement he didn’t go down into.

10. The dialog between Locke and Ben at the camp before blowing up the sub had a feel of two people who know each other talking, rather than a confrontation. Had a little edge to it, like Ben had maybe double-crossed Locke and Locke was there to get even. When Juliette was getting a little unruly, Ben showed the TV show of her sister (exploit what she cares about?) to get her back under control. In the same way, Ben suddenly produces Locke’s father (exploit/get him back under control?). Then, just before Kate is gassed, Locke goes off with the Others when they leave the barracks (Ben has him under control again?).

Locke also seemed to know an awful lot of detailed info about the sub when he got on board (been there before?).

All of this speculation stems from the period when they had Henry (Ben) locked up in the Swan. Why would the leader of the Others purposely let himself get caught? The single biggest thing that has bothered me is the discussion Lock and Ben had in “Two For The Road”. Locke asked why Henry didn’t harm him while he was trapped under the blast door. Henry replied, “because you’re one of the good ones.” Locke was confused and asked, “good what?” Henry went on to tell Locke that the man in charge is brilliant, but unforgiving and that his people would find him and kill him for failing his mission. Then the biggie – Henry tells Locke, “I was coming for you.” The arrival of Kate, Jack and Michael ends the conversation.

I think what we will eventually see is:

The Others somehow triggered Locke’s paralysis to disappear on the beach. Remember we saw Ethan (a doctor) in the hospital where Locke was recovering; possible that they inserted an implant to cause the paralysis that they could then tweak later. Similar to the implant that the Others put in Claire to induce her “sickness” for Juliette to cure. This premise is supported in the episode when Lock had a short term paralysis that amazingly cleared up.

If the Others orchestrated the paralysis thing, then when Ben “came for you”, I think we will see that Ben ended up recruiting Locke by convincing him the island was magical (short trip for Locke to make since his paralysis went away on the island, he could only walk on the island-nowhere else), underscored the macho guy/adventure of being on the island and gave him a bit of an insider’s view of the island to whet Locke’s appetite. All in return for Locke being a spy for the Others, possible even helping them fill in the details in the files they are keeping.

There are likely other points that could be made here. I have way too much time on my hands today.

This is a desperate attempt to avoid 100 posts on DVR pricing between now and the next episode. :p

The following is speculation, NOT a spoiler.

I think Locke is working with the Others.

Here are some thoughts leading me to this conclusion (there are many examples of strange behavior from Locke, but these string together nicely):

1. Our first exposure to him shows him looking at his toes wiggling. This in the midst of crash chaos which doesn’t interest him as much as his toes.

2. We have seen that Locke is naïve, gullible and can be duped/manipulated easily. He keeps believing anything his father tells him and would be likely to believe Ben (more below) if Ben told him 1) the island cured your paralysis and 2) this island has the ability to keep you walking – but only if you stay.

3. Being on the island gives him the adventure he craves and feeds his great sense of self worth as a leader/hunter/macho guy.

4. With the above in mind, remember Ben told Juliette that he finds out what someone cares about and exploits it.

5. Locke is never mentioned as being on a list.

6. He tends to look like he is deep in thought before he gives vague, cryptic answers to questions about the island/happenings. (choosing his words carefully to avoid giving himself away?).

7. He always seems to be looking inward towards the island rather than outward towards escape. He has stated he doesn’t want to leave the island. Along with this, he does things that make him appear to be a loose cannon (blows up hatch, blows up sub) but there is likely a purpose for all of it if you buy into this argument.

8. He never seems to get into harm’s way like the other losties. In fact, he always seems to be elsewhere when the fun begins. ( Locke and Smokey got nose to nose and Smokey just kept going. Smokey grabbed Locke at one point and tried to drag him down a hole; when Jack was trying to pull him back, he asked Jack to let go – “it was alright”. --- Smokey being controlled?).

9. Locke didn’t seem to be surprised by the existence of the ranch, even coming up with some C4 that was in the basement he didn’t go down into.

10. The dialog between Locke and Ben at the camp before blowing up the sub had a feel of two people who know each other talking, rather than a confrontation. Had a little edge to it, like Ben had maybe double-crossed Locke and Locke was there to get even. When Juliette was getting a little unruly, Ben showed the TV show of her sister (exploit what she cares about?) to get her back under control. In the same way, Ben suddenly produces Locke’s father (exploit/get him back under control?). Then, just before Kate is gassed, Locke goes off with the Others when they leave the barracks (Ben has him under control again?).

Locke also seemed to know an awful lot of detailed info about the sub when he got on board (been there before?).

All of this speculation stems from the period when they had Henry (Ben) locked up in the Swan. Why would the leader of the Others purposely let himself get caught? The single biggest thing that has bothered me is the discussion Lock and Ben had in “Two For The Road”. Locke asked why Henry didn’t harm him while he was trapped under the blast door. Henry replied, “because you’re one of the good ones.” Locke was confused and asked, “good what?” Henry went on to tell Locke that the man in charge is brilliant, but unforgiving and that his people would find him and kill him for failing his mission. Then the biggie – Henry tells Locke, “I was coming for you.” The arrival of Kate, Jack and Michael ends the conversation.

I think what we will eventually see is:

The Others somehow triggered Locke’s paralysis to disappear on the beach. Remember we saw Ethan (a doctor) in the hospital where Locke was recovering; possible that they inserted an implant to cause the paralysis that they could then tweak later. Similar to the implant that the Others put in Claire to induce her “sickness” for Juliette to cure. This premise is supported in the episode when Lock had a short term paralysis that amazingly cleared up.

If the Others orchestrated the paralysis thing, then when Ben “came for you”, I think we will see that Ben ended up recruiting Locke by convincing him the island was magical (short trip for Locke to make since his paralysis went away on the island, he could only walk on the island-nowhere else), underscored the macho guy/adventure of being on the island and gave him a bit of an insider’s view of the island to whet Locke’s appetite. All in return for Locke being a spy for the Others, possible even helping them fill in the details in the files they are keeping.

There are likely other points that could be made here. I have way too much time on my hands today.

Ray, you make a compelling argument and if what you surmise is true, these writers are even better than I gave them credit for over a year ago when I said they were "incredible". I don't see any flaws in your theory, and if it turns out to be true we'll all be bowled over by the fact that they've kept any of us from suspecting it in all of this time. Kudos to you for coming up with this whichever way it turns out, and if you're right, I think you should win something!

Ray**W's quotes in bold:

I think Locke is working with the Others.

Working with the others as of when? I believe that Ben could be manipulating him since their encounter in the barracks just before Locke blew up the sub, but not before.

1. Our first exposure to him shows him looking at his toes wiggling. This in the midst of crash chaos which doesn’t interest him as much as his toes.

How does that indicate he is working with the others? He'd been paralyzed, and now he isn't. Seems like a normal reaction.

2. We have seen that Locke is naïve, gullible and can be duped/manipulated easily. He keeps believing anything his father tells him and would be likely to believe Ben (more below) if Ben told him 1) the island cured your paralysis and 2) this island has the ability to keep you walking – but only if you stay.

3. Being on the island gives him the adventure he craves and feeds his great sense of self worth as a leader/hunter/macho guy.

4. With the above in mind, remember Ben told Juliette that he finds out what someone cares about and exploits it.

I agree with all those points, but that doesn't point to a long-term collaboration between Locke and the others, as you seem to be implying.

5. Locke is never mentioned as being on a list.

Which list?

6. He tends to look like he is deep in thought before he gives vague, cryptic answers to questions about the island/happenings. (choosing his words carefully to avoid giving himself away?).

Normal stuff from a spiritual guy.

7. He always seems to be looking inward towards the island rather than outward towards escape. He has stated he doesn’t want to leave the island. Along with this, he does things that make him appear to be a loose cannon (blows up hatch, blows up sub) but there is likely a purpose for all of it if you buy into this argument.

8. He never seems to get into harm’s way like the other losties. In fact, he always seems to be elsewhere when the fun begins. ( Locke and Smokey got nose to nose and Smokey just kept going. Smokey grabbed Locke at one point and tried to drag him down a hole; when Jack was trying to pull him back, he asked Jack to let go – “it was alright”. --- Smokey being controlled?).

Those fit better with him being on the side of the island, not the Others.

9. Locke didn’t seem to be surprised by the existence of the ranch, even coming up with some C4 that was in the basement he didn’t go down into.

We didn't see his reaction -- it was offscreen.

10. The dialog between Locke and Ben at the camp before blowing up the sub had a feel of two people who know each other talking, rather than a confrontation. Had a little edge to it, like Ben had maybe double-crossed Locke and Locke was there to get even...

They did know each other, from the hatch. Ben had double-crossed Locke.

Locke also seemed to know an awful lot of detailed info about the sub when he got on board (been there before?).

For all you know, he could've been in the Navy. ;)

...Then the biggie – Henry tells Locke, “I was coming for you.”

Which was either an appeal to Locke's ego in Ben's escape attempt, or simply the truth. Ben wanted to know how Locke's paralysis was cured, because he was facing the same thing.

I think what we will eventually see is:

The Others somehow triggered Locke’s paralysis to disappear on the beach...

That presupposes the Others planned the plane crash, which I'm not buying just yet. Don't we know the planed crash because Desmond didn't push the button when he was supposed to? Doesn't that discount the possibility that it was planned?

If the Others orchestrated the paralysis thing, then when Ben “came for you”, I think we will see that Ben ended up recruiting Locke by convincing him the island was magical (short trip for Locke to make since his paralysis went away on the island, he could only walk on the island-nowhere else), underscored the macho guy/adventure of being on the island and gave him a bit of an insider’s view of the island to whet Locke’s appetite. All in return for Locke being a spy for the Others, possible even helping them fill in the details in the files they are keeping.

So the Others have this elaborate ruse to implant a device in Locke's spine so they can later manipulate him as a spy after taking down his plane that had to end up over their island (and by the way they had to know Locke would survive) just so they could find out some more information about other people on the plane? Riiiight.

There are likely other points that could be made here. I have way too much time on my hands today.

Apparently so do I. :)

Thanks maxman. I was hoping it hung together, at least a little bit.

It occurred to me I should have added that Ben probably didn't approach Locke until he had time to speculate about the healing properties of the island. It would have been easy to figure out which of Locke buttons to push since they could observe Locke (and the other main characters) from the Pearl monitor.

This premise helps me understand why they bothered to show us Juliette and Ben watching Jack on th emonitor while Paolo was in the bathroom. I'm not sure what other purpose that revelation served.

Ray

This guy Ben is a genius, I mean seriously who can think the stuff up that he thinks up...its like watching a white coller version of MaCguyver(sp?).

Thanks maxman. I was hoping it hung together, at least a little bit.

It occurred to me I should have added that Ben probably didn't approach Locke until he had time to speculate about the healing properties of the island. It would have been easy to figure out which of Locke buttons to push since they could observe Locke (and the other main characters) from the Pearl monitor.

This premise helps me understand why they bothered to show us Juliette and Ben watching Jack on th emonitor while Paolo was in the bathroom. I'm not sure what other purpose that revelation served.

Ray

I read mdr25's rebuttal. I didn't see where he/she actually disproved anything you stated. However, this one's a big one to get over based on what we think we know about the plane crash (though it's not a given):

"That presupposes the Others planned the plane crash, which I'm not buying just yet. Don't we know the planed crash because Desmond didn't push the button when he was supposed to? Doesn't that discount the possibility that it was planned?... ...So the Others have this elaborate ruse to implant a device in Locke's spine so they can later manipulate him as a spy after taking down his plane that had to end up over their island (and by the way they had to know Locke would survive) just so they could find out some more information about other people on the plane?"

All of this speculation stems from the period when they had Henry (Ben) locked up in the Swan. Why would the leader of the Others purposely let himself get caught? The single biggest thing that has bothered me is the discussion Lock and Ben had in “Two For The Road”. Locke asked why Henry didn’t harm him while he was trapped under the blast door. Henry replied, “because you’re one of the good ones.” Locke was confused and asked, “good what?” Henry went on to tell Locke that the man in charge is brilliant, but unforgiving and that his people would find him and kill him for failing his mission. Then the biggie – Henry tells Locke, “I was coming for you.” The arrival of Kate, Jack and Michael ends the conversation.


I thought it's already been established that Ben was not caught on purpose. He was heading to the camp for reasons I can't remember and got caught in one of Rousseau's traps by accident.

Plus everything that Ben said in the hatch when he was Henry was not necessarily the truth. Based on what we've seen so far Henry was the leader all along. He chose not to reveal that information for fear of his own safety. I think that was mentioned by Ben as well.

Ben has a specific interest in Locke because Locke was instantly cured upon arrival, but Ben was never instantly cured of his cancer despite having been there much longer. From what they discussed a few weeks back, Locke's connection with the island is something which Ben wants to understand. Why was Locke cured and not him?

As I said, it's just speculation from thinking about it. I didn't spend alot of time scouring for details, but the stuff I suggested just seemed to pile up together.

Having said that, I don't knopw if the Others planned the plane crash (using their brilliant leader) or even if Desmond and the button were the cause. What did occur to me is that the plane was way off course and came apart. Add to that the multiple flashbacks we have seen and the number of the characters showing up crossing paths, including a surprising number of Others (Ben as a ticket counter jockey?).

Also, I don't think the Locke/Ben relationship actually started until Ben was "captured". Certainly no longer term than that.

Please don't look at my comments as being defensive. This stuff is just fun to play with. Also, it's just speculation, so I'm not even sure I could defend it if that was my intent. Sometimes I read comments in this rather large tome and wonder why people seem to forget that 1) it's fiction, 2) it's TV and 3) the writers seem to delight in torturing us. Plus - they are just making it up, so it's not like we could apply the laws of physics or logic to it.

Anyhow, this will hopefully get some participation . The points made in favor of the theory may be refuted or others may contribute other factoids to support the theory. My biggest fear is that the series will end with Hurley eating the island. :p

My biggest fear is that the series will end with Hurley eating the island. :p
An island that, I’m sure if viewed from high above, would have a Dharma logo carved on its surface. :)

Ben has a specific interest in Locke because Locke was instantly cured upon arrival, but Ben was never instantly cured of his cancer despite having been there much longer.

Remember that Ben's tumor is not cancerous. It's something else they haven't told us about. Juliet made of point of mentioning that, so it's probably important. Probably.


An island that, I’m sure if viewed from high above, would have a Dharma logo carved on its surface. :)

Maybe even octagonally shaped like the Dharma logo. Fractal! (and no, that doesn't have anything to do with BSG.:) )

I read mdr25's rebuttal. I didn't see where he/she actually disproved anything you stated. However, this one's a big one to get over based on what we think we know about the plane crash (though it's not a given):

"That presupposes the Others planned the plane crash, which I'm not buying just yet. Don't we know the planed crash because Desmond didn't push the button when he was supposed to? Doesn't that discount the possibility that it was planned?... ...So the Others have this elaborate ruse to implant a device in Locke's spine so they can later manipulate him as a spy after taking down his plane that had to end up over their island (and by the way they had to know Locke would survive) just so they could find out some more information about other people on the plane?"

The problem with the pre-planning of the plane crash theory is Ben's reaction as he is ordering Goodwin and Ethan to the site, "There may be survivors". Also, his conversation with Jack about him having a tumor, needing a surgeon, and suddenly one fell out of the sky. Finally, he ordered Mikel to get as much information as he could on the passengers of flight 815. He wouldn't need that if he already knew who was coming.

The problem with the pre-planning of the plane crash theory is Ben's reaction as he is ordering Goodwin and Ethan to the site, "There may be survivors". Also, his conversation with Jack about him having a tumor, needing a surgeon, and suddenly one fell out of the sky. Finally, he ordered Mikel to get as much information as he could on the passengers of flight 815. He wouldn't need that if he already knew who was coming.All that and wasn't it a storm 1000 miles away that blew them off course? If Ben can conjure up a storm to blow them to his specific location from 1000 miles away I will definitely bestow him the evil genius title.


ron

Yep. Just to add one more..... when Mikel is sitting at the monitor station and Ben & Juliet come rushing in, he gives the information about the flight as if it was an entirely spontaneous occurence, but one that he seemed oddly prepared for. And then Ben's reaction that peter mentioned above. At any rate, it seems pretty clear that The Others didn't expect the crash of Flight 815. Yet, they seemed to be prepared for it or something like it. They sprung into action like a well-oiled machine.

Although, you gotta' admit, their intelligence gathering skills are formidable indeed! Can't wait to see how they do that.

Yep. Just to add one more..... when Mikel is sitting at the monitor station and Ben & Juliet come rushing in, he gives the information about the flight as if it was an entirely spontaneous occurence, but one that he seemed oddly prepared for. And then Ben's reaction that peter mentioned above. At any rate, it seems pretty clear that The Others didn't expect the crash of Flight 815. Yet, they seemed to be prepared for it or something like it. They sprung into action like a well-oiled machine.

Although, you gotta' admit, their intelligence gathering skills are formidable indeed! Can't wait to see how they do that.

Back in the day when I had a real job, I taught among other things a course called "Introduction to the Internet". I'd ask a volunteer student if s/he would be willing to give me his/her home phone number. Once they did that, I would do a reverse lookup, tell them where s/he lived and who the neighbors were. The looks on the faces were priceless.

Before we were discourged from doing so, if a social security number were volunteered, well, you can imagine the amount of information that is freely available with that! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Although, you gotta' admit, their intelligence gathering skills are formidable indeed! Can't wait to see how they do that.

That was already explained.....Google.....:rolleyes:

Before we were discourged from doing so, if a social security number were volunteered, well, you can imagine the amount of information that is freely available with that! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:Someone informed me of a particular site you can plug any name into. Now you won't get a hit with every name, but some individuals' prior adresses, phone numbers and socials are actually listed. No deep, dark, dirty secrets posted, though. :eek:

That was already explained.....Google.....:rolleyes:
google what, ya still dont know how they actually got the info. having a computer and sat access does show you how they got the info. especially when looking at the old ass computers they were using :rolleyes:

Ray**w - when was Ben a ticket person? or were you thinking of when Locke was in the smoke tent and Ben was a security person checking Jack, Kate and Sawyer through...

I def can't follow Locke as an other. the dude is just a strange and gullible person.

What's the chance we'll see...

http://www.billtilghman.com/lost.jpg

Someone informed me of a particular site you can plug any name into. Now you won't get a hit with every name, but some individuals' prior adresses, phone numbers and socials are actually listed. No deep, dark, dirty secrets posted, though. :eek:

Also: enter any listed telephone number (10 digits) into Google...

google what, ya still dont know how they actually got the info. having a computer and sat access does show you how they got the info. : rolleyes :

I'm having some wandering thoughts about Jules and her sub ride. First, she is in essence an outsider. There is some discussion that Ben was born on the island. Why then, can we not contend that all of the others were born on the island. Jules was recruited to help with their problem. She was and is not one of them from way back. Ben is extremely fond of ruses and deception. It appears to me that he has deceived Jules at least once.

Why would you need tranquilizers for a sub ride? I don't believe it would be a very bumpy ride unless someone were dropping depth charges on you. Subs travel under surface storms. I have commented in the past that I didn't believe the issue of a one way trip.

I am starting to think the sub is just a prop to make people believe that they have the option to leave the island. I'm thinking Jules was drugged, placed in a non moving sub, then allowed to wake up thinking she just experienced 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

If Michael and Walt can find safety in a small surface boat by following a bearing, why would a sub even be necessary?

Make they take the sub to avoid detection.

Seems like they want to stay hidden. So they drugged Juliette (and to go from Portland to somewhere in the South Pacific must take days in a little sub?)

As a woman, you would thikn she'd be weirded out to wake up strapped in a sub after being tranquilized. Who knows what might have gone on?

Seems like Henry wanted his own little kingdom but the fly in the ointment was that women couldn't reproduce. Then cancer was another complication.

Seems like Henry wanted his own little kingdom but the fly in the ointment was that women couldn't reproduce. Then cancer was another complication.

All right, one more time for the slooooow learners: Ben doesn't have cancer. Let's try to pay attention, shall we? :rolleyes:

:)

I thought it's already been established that Ben was not caught on purpose. He was heading to the camp for reasons I can't remember and got caught in one of Rousseau's traps by accident.



I don't think this has been established. It may have appeared that way, but I don't think there has been confirmation that he "accidentally" got trapped. I was left with the impression that this part was a set up as well.

Although I don't really believe that the others knew Locke 4 years prior was going to end up on the island, I have maintained all along that while it seems that the others didn't cause the plane crash to occur, this doesn't mean they didn't know it wasn't going to happen. After all, isn't mathematical probability theory part of Dharma's initiatives? Perhaps, like Asimov's Foundation series, they are able to predict the future to some degree, and they knew the plane was going to crash, and that at least Locke was on it? (Unlikely, I know--plus, as someone pointed out the last time I brought this up, Foundation was more along the lines of predicting broad social changes, instead of particular actions...)

All that and wasn't it a storm 1000 miles away that blew them off course? If Ben can conjure up a storm to blow them to his specific location from 1000 miles away I will definitely bestow him the evil genius title.


ron

No, they lost their radio and beacon, so they diverted to (fiji I think). That's what put them off course.

All right, one more time for the slooooow learners: Ben doesn't have cancer. Let's try to pay attention, shall we? :rolleyes:

:)

Paying attention should not be selective. Yes, Juliet said she said tumor not cancer, but later in the same scene she asks him how he can have cancer if no one on the island gets cancer.

Just some ideas (these have probably been discussed before):

I was under the impression that Desmondo caused the crash when he let the timer run down and the electromagnet went crazy. This means the other's could not have CAUSED the crash but this does not mean they didn't know something like this was going to happen. Unless the old guy in the hatch was in with the others and communicated with them when he left Desmond in the hatch and went for walks. Then it would seem he left just enough hints to the curious Desmond to follow him out. After all, he did surprise Desmond near the cove where the sailboat was. This would have given the countdown time to run out. Maybe the others NEEDED the EM to freak out so this particular plane would crash on the island. This would explain Ben's seemingly surprise because the plan would hinge on whether or not Desmond took the bait. However, this all seems VERY unlikely because 1) this would put the EM primary at huge risk or exploding 2) the other's personality would be just to kill/restrain Desmond instead of the risky ruse the day of the crash 3) the old guy rebuilt the sail boat for his escape
... which leads me to...

I think the sole purpose of the electromagnet is to selectively let ships/planes/subs to and from the island. Not control some computer calculating the end of the world or how to prevent it or how to make the ULTIMATE bowl of mac and cheese. I believe when it malfunctioned, that caused the plane to "breach" the perimeter and enter the magical island's location by being pulled in. Once down, it also became a blip on the radar that allowed the frozen chessmaster scientists to discover it's location. When the old guy in the hatch said he was "saving the world" or something like that, he was in a way for the others keeping unwanted visitors out. Now that it is gone of course, my theory implies that ppl can come and go from the island. Since the others had to use a sub to get ppl to the island, I don't think it is that simple by water. They may also have a redundant system somewhere else on the island that kicked on after the primary failed, making the island "disappear" from the world again.

I also believe the first night on the beach all the unusual racket from smokey was a self activation system because new arrivivals were "sensed/seen" or, if smokey is remote controlled, he is turned on. He is much louder in that scene than he is as any other time (ie knocking trees over, making mechanical sounds he doesn't usually make etc). I don't know if he could be turned on that fast at their precise location unless they have cameras in the woods. Ethan doesn't arrive on camera until several episodes into the series. That leads me to believe smokey is more likely and individual entity/hive.

If my theories are jacked, I'm sure someone(s) will let me know ;)

Edit: I know ppl have been talking about Locke possibly being in the Navy. In episode 4 of season 1, his boss walks in while Locke and and his friend are playing chess and says "I cruised your file in human resources... you've never been in any of the armed forces." He could have left it out of his application but :rolleyes:

What was the airline name that Juliette and handlers took? Is there maybe an anagram there?It's an anagram for Earhart (Herarat) (possibly as in Amelia). Not my work, it's been posted on various boards.Or maybe it means, She's A Rat (Herarat).

I don't think this has been established. It may have appeared that way, but I don't think there has been confirmation that he "accidentally" got trapped. I was left with the impression that this part was a set up as well.


Ben would have had to conspire with Rousseau to pull it off. I don't see that as a likely event. I think all we know about that relationship is it's adversarial - even more so now that Rousseau has learned Ben had taken Alex as his "daughter".

Rousseau only knew Ben wasn't to be trusted and said as much when she turned him over to the Losties. Which leads me to wonder how she knew that? If she was spying on Ben and the Others, wouldn't she have realized Alex was not his own child and speculated she might have been her's? She's a generally suspicious person anyway but what part of Ben's activities might she have witnessed to conclude he wasn't trustworthy?.

Rousseau's an enigma!

Ben would have had to conspire with Rousseau to pull it off. I don't see that as a likely event. I think all we know about that relationship is it's adversarial - even more so now that Rousseau has learned Ben had taken Alex as his "daughter".

Rousseau only knew Ben wasn't to be trusted and said as much when she turned him over to the Losties. Which leads me to wonder how she knew that? If she was spying on Ben and the Others, wouldn't she have realized Alex was not his own child and speculated she might have been her's? She's a generally suspicious person anyway but what part of Ben's activities might she have witnessed to conclude he wasn't trustworthy?.

Rousseau's an enigma!

Are we working under the assumption that the others had info on Rousseau and Alex before taking Alex (if, in fact, Alex was taken)? I guess my main question is... how did they know that her name was Alex?

No, they lost their radio and beacon, so they diverted to (fiji I think). That's what put them off course.Yeah, you're right. I just checked wiki and it does say the diverted to Fiji when their instruments went haywire on them. I remembered they had instrument trouble, but for some reason I was thinking it was a storm that somehow caused it and then altered their course. So then, what I really meant to say was if Ben can cause instrument failure on a plane from 1000 mi away he's a definite Evil Genius in my book! ;) Not quite as impressive as a storm I guess, but still... :D


ron

: rolleyes :
forgot the n't on dose... so whats to google???

ya just look ignorant using smilies instead saying something relevant :cool:

Please don't look at my comments as being defensive. This stuff is just fun to play with. Also, it's just speculation, so I'm not even sure I could defend it if that was my intent. Sometimes I read comments in this rather large tome and wonder why people seem to forget that 1) it's fiction, 2) it's TV and 3) the writers seem to delight in torturing us. Plus - they are just making it up, so it's not like we could apply the laws of physics or logic to it.

I hear all of that. Those were some good points you brought up in general, and it is fun to bounce around all the different ideas. And the producers occasionally remind us that they are not infallible with little gaffs like Juliette's "nighttime" trek to the drop point.

I'm still not in the boat with the crew who thinks the Others expected the plane to crash via some premonition or precognition or psychohistory (was that what it was called in Foundation?), but I'm much more inclined to believe that they knew it was going to happen vs. they caused it to happen. Personally I don't think either one will turn out to be the case, but that's just my two cents.

I don't know if it has already been discussed ...

In the last episode, when Claire gets sick, and Juliette says she can go quickly and get the medicine, it is quite dark. But when she goes to pick it up, supposedly within minutes, it is broad daylight !

In the last episode, when Claire gets sick, and Juliette says she can go quickly and get the medicine, it is quite dark. But when she goes to pick it up, supposedly within minutes, it is broad daylight !

It was during a Solar Eclipse...

All right, one more time for the slooooow learners: Ben doesn't have cancer. Let's try to pay attention, shall we? :rolleyes:

:)
I go the impression that it was similar to spy movies ;) In other words "We can neither confirm nor deny the presence of cancer in Ben's tumor".

I go the impression that it was similar to spy movies ;) In other words "We can neither confirm nor deny the presence of cancer in Ben's tumor".

Hmmm, "upon" further review", I think I need to eat a little crow on this one. :o

Watched that scene between Ben and Juliet in the house again and it seems clear now that Ben's tumor is indeed cancerous. Her remark about not mentioning the word cancer at first was in response to Ben using that word, indicating that he knew he had a developing cancer on his spine but didn't say anything about it to her, at first, because of what he had told her before, i.e. nobody on the island could get cancer (Ben doesn't like to lie to any of The Others, at least). But I do believe he truly doesn't know why he's suddenly got something nobody's supposed to get.

Indeed, since Rose's cancer has gone into complete remission, perhaps they'll want to kidnap her in order to study her. Of course, that means they'd have to find her first, since she and Bernard have been AWOL all season. ;)

Pet peeve, since i was on a sub for 4 years: red lighting is only used when it's night time outside, and only in Control so that thier eyes are conditioned for night vision in case they need to look out the periscope. The oncoming Officer of the Deck where's red glasses before taking the watch for the same reason. Everywhere else on the boat there's normal flourescent lights. Subs are very well lit, not dark like portrayed on almost every movie or TV show.

Pet peeve, since i was on a sub for 4 years: red lighting is only used when it's night time outside, and only in Control so that thier eyes are conditioned for night vision in case they need to look out the periscope. The oncoming Officer of the Deck where's red glasses before taking the watch for the same reason. Everywhere else on the boat there's normal flourescent lights. Subs are very well lit, not dark like portrayed on almost every movie or TV show.

Yeah, but that wouldn't be very dramatic, would it? :)

I hear all of that. Those were some good points you brought up in general, and it is fun to bounce around all the different ideas. And the producers occasionally remind us that they are not infallible with little gaffs like Juliette's "nighttime" trek to the drop point.

I'm still not in the boat with the crew who thinks the Others expected the plane to crash via some premonition or precognition or psychohistory (was that what it was called in Foundation?), but I'm much more inclined to believe that they knew it was going to happen vs. they caused it to happen. Personally I don't think either one will turn out to be the case, but that's just my two cents.

I am on the same side of that thought - I don't think they planned it, but they probably knew about it (this whole time thing that is involved). I also don't think they (Ben) got to Locke before Ben was captured. Locke may not be a turncoat as much as he is being manipulated without realizing Ben is taking advantage of Locke being in love with the macho guy thing and just nudging him to where Ben wants him.

I don't know if it has already been discussed ...

In the last episode, when Claire gets sick, and Juliette says she can go quickly and get the medicine, it is quite dark. But when she goes to pick it up, supposedly within minutes, it is broad daylight !

They do that a lot. At times it's hard to judge distances from the Beach to Cave or (former) Hatch, and how long it takes to get there on foot. 10 minutes? 2 hours? a day's travel?

My pet peeve for Lost (and nearly all movies/shows): torches! Characters put the end of a stick into the miraculously smokeless fire, and come out with a magical torch that gives off tons of bright, smokeless light that lasts for hours. People who haven't spent any time outdoors would be heartily dissapointed in the reality of it. Put a stick in the fire, pull it out, you get a small flame that lasts less then a minute and goes out.

My pet peeve for Lost (and nearly all movies/shows): torches! Put a stick in the fire, pull it out, you get a small flame that lasts less then a minute and goes out. :) Indeed! :)

My pet peeve for Lost (and nearly all movies/shows): torches! Characters put the end of a stick into the miraculously smokeless fire, and come out with a magical torch that gives off tons of bright, smokeless light that lasts for hours. People who haven't spent any time outdoors would be heartily dissapointed in the reality of it. Put a stick in the fire, pull it out, you get a small flame that lasts less then a minute and goes out.

Nah. Fortunately, an ample supply of Dharma brand "Torch-all-Nite"TM is left in every airdrop. Because running through the jungle at night is just something everybody likes to do. "One dip, and you're good for hours." :D

They do that a lot. At times it's hard to judge distances from the Beach to Cave or (former) Hatch, and how long it takes to get there on foot. 10 minutes? 2 hours? a day's travel?I assumed it was actually very early in the morning (4AM?) when Jules took off. Then again, why would everyone be up and about that time of day? And do they still even take turns watching the flock while everyone's sleep?

What's the chance we'll see...

http://www.billtilghman.com/lost.jpg

I have gone through the episode twice now and haven't seen Ben with a "Hitler Stash", you're not posting bogus made up screen shots, are you!?!?!?!?!?!?
Buwahahahahaha :rolleyes:

What if the whole Dharma initiative was set up by Ben and the Degroots as a smokescreen to get young people to spend many hours on the island in boring repetitve tasks. Dharma builds these facilities and staffs them with young post-grads. Since there really isn't much entertainment on the island, the naturnal thing to do in their down time would be to pair up and fool around. This provides them with their real experimental subjecs- pregnant women.

Maybe the researchers/ subjects found out and rebelled and that was the root of the conflict to which Mikhail was refering.

Finally caught up on this thread after watching the Ep over the weekend...good episode, too bad the "twist" proved my wife right in the end. I just couldn't figure out what motivation she'd have for joining the Losties.

And yes, Jack is by far my least favorite character on this show. What an ass. I wanted Sayid to come at him after that “she’s under my protection” line. I even hated how all the Losties welcomed him back...what has he done to earn all that affection? Seems like he's always in a grouchy, bossy mood to me...

As for Juliette’s motivation, I think it was telling in the scene where she and Jack were on the beach and he said (paraphrased) “I could tell that you’d do anything to get off this island.” I’m quite certain that includes deceiving the Losties for Ben’s purpose, whatever that is (tests on Claire, perhaps?).

..
And yes, Jack is by far my least favorite character on this show. What an ass. I wanted Sayid to come at him after that “she’s under my protection” line. I even hated how all the Losties welcomed him back...what has he done to earn all that affection? Seems like he's always in a grouchy, bossy mood to me...


Amen. I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Regarding the theory about Locke as an Other: I'd be disappointed. Locke is my favorite character, because he's the most interesting.

And yes, Jack is by far my least favorite character on this show. What an ass. I wanted Sayid to come at him after that “she’s under my protection” line. I even hated how all the Losties welcomed him back...what has he done to earn all that affection? Seems like he's always in a grouchy, bossy mood to me...



Jack is far from my favorite Lostie...but even the most diehard Jack hater would have to admit that he has saved many lives, and stepped up to lead when noone else would.

Of course, most of his leadership decisions suck, but if anyone thinks they could do better they have yet to come forward.

Jack is far from my favorite Lostie...but even the most diehard Jack hater would have to admit that he has saved many lives,

I know he took charge during the initial crash time, but who else has he saved?

I remember his treating Boone, but he died anyway. And it seems like I can remember his treating Sawyer in the hatch. Other than that, I can't really think of too many others he has saved.

It's probably just my anti-Jack prejudice clouding my mind...

Jack is far from my favorite Lostie...but even the most diehard Jack hater would have to admit that he has saved many lives, and stepped up to lead when noone else would.

Of course, most of his leadership decisions suck, but if anyone thinks they could do better they have yet to come forward.

Paolo and Nikki could have done it, but alas, that whole spider thing :D

I do not believe that Locke is an "other".

I think we are searching for a deeper explanation, but there isn't one.

He is very happy living on the island, period.

The others showed him that they captured his father.

I think I would go with them at that point too! ;)

Locke is very guillible and has always searched for a place to belong.

He started to find it with the losties, but I think Boone's death changed that.

I was very dissappointed in Sayid, why would he just accept Jack's "she's with me" speech? I think that will change. In fact I expect Sayid to assume a role of leader very soon.

Plus he saw Jack playing with the others. How do they know that Jack isn't one of "them" now too?

I also buy into the fact that there are other ways off the islands. But by blowing up the sub, it gives the appearance that they are stuck.

Couple of quick questions..

No mention of the two that were buried alive?! Shouldn't they be coming out of it by now? :eek:

If the others are gone (I think they are hiding), wouldn't this be a great time to explore their camp? Atleast take a shower!

No mention of the two that were buried alive?! Shouldn't they be coming out of it by now? :eek:

Would you not assume that when you're buried like that, you cannot breathe, and therefore die?

I know he took charge during the initial crash time, but who else has he saved?

I remember his treating Boone, but he died anyway. And it seems like I can remember his treating Sawyer in the hatch. Other than that, I can't really think of too many others he has saved.

It's probably just my anti-Jack prejudice clouding my mind...

He saved Ben :-)

He pulled Shannon down from her Asthma attack that was about to kill her...:

ACK: Shannon, listen to me. Look at me. Look at me. You need to listen now. This isn't just the asthma. It's anxiety.

SHANNON: No.

JACK: It's in your head. Yes. You know that your medicine's run out and you're panicking, but, Shannon, Shannon, look at me. But we can fight this together, okay? Nod your head, Shannon. Good. Breathe in -

BOONE: She needs her inhaler.

JACK: Boone! Breathe in through the nose slowly. No, no, no, no. In through the nose like this. You can do this, Shannon. You can do it. In through the nose. You got your breath. Your color's coming back. See, I knew you could do this. You feel it?

SHANNON: Yeah.

JACK: It's passing. Okay. Again. In through the nose. All right. Just keep doing that. Keep breathing like that. That's perfect. Good job. Keep her relaxed. Do not let her panic.

BOONE: Yeah.

HURLEY: Wow, man, that was awesome. I mean, that was like a ... Jedi moment.

Yes.

but I would also not expect polar bears, black smoke, miraculous recoveries etc...

This place is a tad unconventional, wouldn't you agree? ;)

Here's a good snippet of Locke lying his ass off and trying to blame Sawyer for hitting Sayid back in Season One:

Funny how the suspect he describes is really himself (profiting from our current circumstances)

AYID: Locke, where were you last night around sunset?

LOCKE: Well, I'm afraid the only witness to my whereabouts is the boar that I was skinning for our dinner. I heard you were trying to send out a distress call, so it would seem whoever attacked you has a reason for not wanting to get off the island. Maybe someone who is profiting from our current circumstances. And from what I've seen, you and Mr. Sawyer share a certain animosity.

SAYID: No, he has an alibi. Just before I was struck, he set off a bottle rocket, a signal we'd worked out two kilometers away. He couldn't have had the time to go from --

LOCKE: Unless he found a way to time-delay the fuse on his rocket.

SAYID: How could he possibly have --

LOCKE: Anyone who watches television knows how to improvise a slow fuse. Use a cigarette.

I was very dissappointed in Sayid, why would he just accept Jack's "she's with me" speech? I think that will change. In fact I expect Sayid to assume a role of leader very soon.


It isn't like Sayid trusts Juliette now. He and Sawyer did follow her out into the jungle to threaten her, after all. I think he's just going to watch her extremely closely until he gets some hard evidence that she's still working with the Others. What else should he do? If he ties her up or tortures her, it'll just make Jack fight that much harder for her. I think he's doing the pragmatic thing by just keeping an eye on her for now.


No mention of the two that were buried alive?! Shouldn't they be coming out of it by now? :eek:


Not a spoiler, just what I think: The implication was that they were buried too deep to climb out, so they suffocated down there and are now dead. As Locke said, though, "Nothing on this island stays buried."

Speaking of those two: does anyone have any source that says definitively if the writers had their demise planned out that way from the start or if it was a reaction to the fans? I think it was the former, but some people I've talked to are convinced it was the latter.

I do not believe that Locke is an "other"...

Danny Noonan...weren't you in Caddyshack??? :D

I just think that the main characters need to take turns looking stupid... to make some rooms for advancing some storylines for others. :p

Hong.

Having said that, I don't know if the Others planned the plane crash (using their brilliant leader) or even if Desmond and the button were the cause. What did occur to me is that the plane was way off course and came apart. Add to that the multiple flashbacks we have seen and the number of the characters showing up crossing paths, including a surprising number of Others (Ben as a ticket counter jockey?).


I think there is no way the others caused the crash, mainly going on what Ben said to Ethan & Goodwin Go to the crash sites take names and blend in, find out everything you can. Plus when they had Jack, he said from a plane crash it is a miracle that a spine surgeon would be aboard. All info was found out Post Crash.
I still feel that it was Desmond's fault the plane crashed. They were off course which was instrument or Pilot error but once he didn't press the bottom the island shield lifted. Which left the plane with easy access into the (I will call it a Protective Dome) covering the island. But once he pressed the numbers the protective dome was reactivated and the plane had no where to go but get split apart due to the magnetic field. Unfortunately this leads to a different question, How was Desmond able to get buy the Do not enter sign with his boat?

As for everyone crossing paths. I think this is just a the writers game of seeing how much we play close attention. One of the better ones was Hurley owning the paper company that Locke(post daddy toss) works at and The bar with Jack's daddy and Sawyer drink their sorrows away. "like the red sox will ever win the World series" something like that.

The problem with the pre-planning of the plane crash theory is Ben's reaction as he is ordering Goodwin and Ethan to the site, "There may be survivors". Also, his conversation with Jack about him having a tumor, needing a surgeon, and suddenly one fell out of the sky. Finally, he ordered Mikel to get as much information as he could on the passengers of flight 815. He wouldn't need that if he already knew who was coming.
Sorry Pete, we both said the same thing but I am a couple of pages behind in catching up. Everything I just said you said already. Great minds think a like.

Back in the day when I had a real job, I taught among other things a course called "Introduction to the Internet". I'd ask a volunteer student if s/he would be willing to give me his/her home phone number. Once they did that, I would do a reverse lookup, tell them where s/he lived and who the neighbors were. The looks on the faces were priceless.

Before we were discourged from doing so, if a social security number were volunteered, well, you can imagine the amount of information that is freely available with that! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I understand the Google possibility but as it has been with this show it is probably called "Darhma Search" because this show really hasn't had any product placement. Not only that. I know you can find out about everyone on line if you pay the fee, however how would they know things that are buried in the back of our minds. The biggest one being: How the hell did she know sawyer killed someone? Sawyer never told anyone on the island and he never told anyone on the mainland. As for Said and who he tortured, I really doubt they kept records on the beatings they gave while interrogating a criminal.

Are we working under the assumption that the others had info on Rousseau and Alex before taking Alex (if, in fact, Alex was taken)? I guess my main question is... how did they know that her name was Alex?

Now that is a question that should spark some deep conversation. How did they know Alex was named Alex? Remember the end of season one she demonstarted how the other s took her baby. We are the assumtion that that was how they took hers even though she did it like that just to get Claire's baby.

When she captured BEN/HENRY she knew he was one of them, Why did she get Said? She had her chance to kill him, if she knew him and knew he was the one that stole her kid I doubt she would have hesitated to take a shot.

Alex was taken away from Rousseau but Alex was an infant. So it is weird that Ben would name the baby the same name that frenchie named her. Unless they made an agreement with her the same way they made an agreement with the LOSTIES. Stay on you side of the island and you won't be hurt.

As for Ben knowing Alex's name: it is reasonable to assume the Others spied on the research crew, learning Alex's name in the process.

Answering my own earlier question about Nikki & Paulo: The writers did change their story arcs due to viewer backlash. This Entertainment Weekly article (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20034817,00.html) explains it (and gets a bit spoilerish after the 3rd paragraph, hinting at the general plots of the remaining episodes this season).

No mention of the two that were buried alive?! Shouldn't they be coming out of it by now? :eek:

If the others are gone (I think they are hiding), wouldn't this be a great time to explore their camp? At least take a shower!

Come on now, you need Buffy strength to get out of 5 -6 ft of patted down sand. These 2 people have no special powers, these 2 are dead, dead, dead. Let us all hold hands and pray for the newly departed.

As for the "others land" do you really think they left anything of importance. They probably turned off the main water valve and shut down every item that would be useful to the Losties. Especially with Juliet there, they had to add to the betrayal by having everything shut down to prove Juliet was left also.

I understand the Google possibility but as it has been with this show it is probably called "Darhma Search" because this show really hasn't had any product placement. Not only that. I know you can find out about everyone on line if you pay the fee, however how would they know things that are buried in the back of our minds. The biggest one being: How the hell did she know sawyer killed someone? Sawyer never told anyone on the island and he never told anyone on the mainland. As for Said and who he tortured, I really doubt they kept records on the beatings they gave while interrogating a criminal.

Could they have an agent trapped in the future running a Google search on their past? :eek:

I understand the Google possibility but as it has been with this show it is probably called "Darhma Search" because this show really hasn't had any product placement. Not only that. I know you can find out about everyone on line if you pay the fee, however how would they know things that are buried in the back of our minds. The biggest one being: How the hell did she know sawyer killed someone? Sawyer never told anyone on the island and he never told anyone on the mainland. As for Said and who he tortured, I really doubt they kept records on the beatings they gave while interrogating a criminal.Myself, I was totally kidding with archiguy about Google, but it would appear a satellite web-search is how Mikhail uncovered secrets concerning the Losties. That would be like nearly impossible, so I hope there's more about that, that hasn't yet been shown.

Myself, I was totally kidding with archiguy about Google, but it would appear a satellite web-search is how Mikhail uncovered secrets concerning the Losties. That would be like nearly impossible, so I hope there's more about that, that hasn't yet been shown.

Yeah, the Google comment was sort of tongue in cheek, but they have to have some kind of super-duper intelligence gathering ability to find out so much about everyone so quickly, including stuff that shouldn't be known to anyone.

Nobody's really commented on Mikel's statement (cut off by Rousseau) that he didn't really know Kate and Sayid beyond the intelligence he gathered, but he somehow knew Locke, and of his paralysis, and was somewhat surprised to see him walking. There's more to Locke and The Others than we've been shown thusfar.

Nobody's really commented on Mikel's statement (cut off by Rousseau) that he didn't really know Kate and Sayid beyond the intelligence he gathered, but he somehow knew Locke, and of his paralysis, and was somewhat surprised to see him walking. There's more to Locke and The Others than we've been shown thusfar.

Ben did have a tumor on his spine, so paralysis was a distinct possibility.

So wouldn't Ben be much more interested in Locke and his miraculous recovery once he arrived on the island?

He might have had Mikel double check Locke's history, because the facts say he couldn't walk but apparently was now.


And I do understand that it is quite difficult to rise from the grave!

But..

As Locke said, though, "Nothing on this island stays buried."

This statement at the time made it seem like something else was going to happen.

I thought maybe the dog would dig them up?! :eek: :D

Nobody's really commented on Mikel's statement (cut off by Rousseau) that he didn't really know Kate and Sayid beyond the intelligence he gathered, but he somehow knew Locke, and of his paralysis, and was somewhat surprised to see him walking. There's more to Locke and The Others than we've been shown thusfar.


Remember, when the Losties first found Ben (calling himself Henry) and they had him in the hatch?

When it was determined he wasn't who he said he was, Ben did say to Locke that he had originally come to the survivor's side of the island for Locke. "I came here for you, John".

Sorry Pete, we both said the same thing but I am a couple of pages behind in catching up. Everything I just said you said already. Great minds think a like.

Considering this is a thread with 1,149,840 views [as this is being posted] it is more of a wonder that more of this doesn't happen!! :)

Nobody's really commented on Mikel's statement (cut off by Rousseau) that he didn't really know Kate and Sayid beyond the intelligence he gathered, but he somehow knew Locke, and of his paralysis, and was somewhat surprised to see him walking. There's more to Locke and The Others than we've been shown thusfar.


Remember, when the Losties first found Ben (calling himself Henry) and they had him in the hatch?

When it was determined he wasn't who he said he was, Ben did say to Locke that he had originally come to the survivor's side of the island for Locke. "I came here for you, John".

Hmmm.... :confused:

Are we working under the assumption that the others had info on Rousseau and Alex before taking Alex (if, in fact, Alex was taken)? I guess my main question is... how did they know that her name was Alex?

My assumption is, after Alex was taken, Rousseau spent a couple of weeks searching around the island yelling "Alex, where are you" and "Give me back my little turnip-head baby". OK, maybe not the turnip-head part :rolleyes: Or, maybe she told Ben "I will never let you take my petite cheri Alex"...something like that?

My assumption isen, Rousseau spent a couple of weeks searching around the island yelling..."Give me back my little turnip-head baby"...

Good thing you don't have a radio & TV talk show... :D

Yeah, the Google comment was sort of tongue in cheek, but they have to have some kind of super-duper intelligence gathering ability to find out so much about everyone so quickly, including stuff that shouldn't be known to anyone.


I assumed Mikhail got the information from the mainland team that sent them Juliet. They did an extensive investigation into what she was all about when they recruited her to join the Others. I see no reason they couldn’t have done the same for the Losties. The Others didn’t have communication with the Losties for some time, so there was plenty of time to gather detailed information.

Interesting non-spoiler in the EW article is that season 4 will start in January 2008 and be a rerun-free season. It didn't specify, but with a January startup, it sounds like no hiatus either.

I love the idea of this show going to more of a "24" type schedule.

I think Lost and the Sopranos to name a couple have been hurt by long breaks.

Maybe they will move it back to the earlier time slot too.

Myself, I was totally kidding with archiguy about Google, but it would appear a satellite web-search is how Mikhail uncovered secrets concerning the Losties. That would be like nearly impossible, so I hope there's more about that, that hasn't yet been shown.
sorry, that will be season 5's last mystery. We have only 6 epsodes left and not enough time to explain: how the h@#$ did they know private things? In the next few weeks,
1)where did the others go?
2)if they were evacuating from "Other town" Why did they use have to use gas mask? they only left 2 people. IMO there is something more to it .
3) Locke gets revenge against daddydearest. But, why did he go along with them? If Ben wanted a confrontation he had the right person because no mater how much Locke craves a family or stability, the MFer tossed him out of a 8 floor condo.
4) Why was he all wet when the the sub go boom? This has to be answered this year.
5) of course our favorite one that will be decided in the coming weeks, Juliet, which side is she on?

I love the idea of this show going to more of a "24" type schedule.

I think Lost and the Sopranos to name a couple have been hurt by long breaks.

Many other shows have lost many viewers due to long breaks. Hopefully they all go to a "24" type schedule in the future... because with these long breaks. Even those who are fans of the show will start to lose interest and catch on to something else.

sorry, that will be season 5's last mystery. We have only 6 epsodes left and not enough time to explain: how the h@#$ did they know private things? In the next few weeks,
1)where did the others go?
2)if they were evacuating from "Other town" Why did they use have to use gas mask? they only left 2 people. IMO there is something more to it .
3) Locke gets revenge against daddydearest. But, why did he go along with them? If Ben wanted a confrontation he had the right person because no mater how much Locke craves a family or stability, the MFer tossed him out of a 8 floor condo.
4) Why was he all wet when the the sub go boom? This has to be answered this year.
5) of course our favorite one that will be decided in the coming weeks, Juliet, which side is she on?
2) If the gas mask thing isn't explained further, I'm willing to chalk it up to the Others putting on a show for Kate to help sell Juliet's story. From there, it also isn't a big leap to assume the Others gassed Jack and Sayid well after Kate, which is why they didn't wake up until at least 12 hours after Kate woke up. I don't think the writers need to be really explicit about this; it seems logical enough (for Lost, anyway). Anyone with me on that?

5) Maybe we'll find out Juliet's loyalty and maybe not, but I bet she'll be the central element in the season ending cliffhanger one way or another.

Other than that, I agree that the questions you listed will probably be answered this season, and not much else.

Did anyone else like Juliet's line when talking to Hurley?

Hurley: I didn't see you at the dock when they put bags over our heads.

Juliet: I had the day off.

Anyone else really really want someone to take out Jack soon? He defines annoying to me ..

Kate is on my list. She reacts emotionally without thinking - that can and does screw up everything. I’d give her a good rogering and turn her over to the Others. :)

Anyone else really really want someone to take out Jack soon? He defines annoying to me ..

:rolleyes: He's clearly got a touch of the Stockholm syndrome. Cut the guy a break.

Kate is on my list. She reacts emotionally without thinking - that can and does screw up everything.

Oh, for a second I thought you were talking about Locke. ;)

Really, the only Lostaway who thinks first and acts later is Sayid. The rest of 'em are a bunch of ninnies. :)

Oh, for a second I thought you were talking about Locke. ;)

Really, the only Lostaway who thinks first and acts later is Sayid. The rest of 'em are a bunch of ninnies. :)

Yeah, Sayid needs to take over. He's the one who knew Michael was working with the Others, but Jack managed to screw up his side of the plan by TRUSTING Michael. Sayid is tough to trick...he rooted out Ben's fake Identity when everyone else would have (and did) give up.

Sayid and Sawyer need to step up and take over. Although, I was disappointed in their reaction to Juliet in the woods. When she criticized their moral standing to question her, they should have made it clear that the fact that they have questionable morals is precisely why she better start talking. "We're aren't trying to win any good citizenship awards here - start talking or we're going to mess you up"

Did anyone else like Juliet's line when talking to Hurley?

Hurley: I didn't see you at the dock when they put bags over our heads.

Juliet: I had the day off.
I thought it was an absolute pisser :D , particularly with Juliet's deadpan delivery and timing. And I can't believe its taken this long for it to become a topic of discussion. :eek:

I'd like to see a weekly island poker game where Juliet, Sawyer, Ben and Locke exchange one-liners. ;)

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I'd like to see a weekly island poker game where Juliet, Sawyer, Ben and Locke exchange one-liners. ;)

Dude, you have to invite Hurley too.