There are photos are on our web site. If you want a larger image, send us an e-mail. If you want lower prices, build your own bias light, or start your own company and see if you can do better. We still live in a mostly free country.

I found these undercabinet lights on google.
They are called YES MICROFLUORESCENT LINKABLE LIGHTING


Are these the same as CCFL or LEDs? Can someone try these?

I found these undercabinet lights on google.
They are called YES MICROFLUORESCENT LINKABLE LIGHTING


Are these the same as CCFL or LEDs? Can someone try these?

website is called All-lights

To whom it may concern,

I am new to this but here goes, In regards to the illuminaire products that people have talked about, I have the PLX318. It is the "color changing" model. I am sure, that the words, "color changing" and "home theatre lighting" don't go together for the home theatre purist, but it does for me. I have had my PLX318 for over 3 months and love it. I don't know what LEDs the guy was using in his "R&D" but there is no spotting with the illuminaire light bars I have. Also, by using the color changing model I have been able to "fine tune" the so called 6500k, to what I feel is pretty close. The remote control has great features that allow different brightness levels and sleep modes. Although as previously said in this message board they do not speak of the scientific value in there instruction manual, honestly thats why I came online to learn more. If anyone has questions about the illuminaire PLX318, I am satisfied with it, actually I think they are great!

George,

That response was quite harsh, especially considering I have purchased your product in the past and will continue to do so in the future. My comment about the expense wasn't meant to be an insult merely an observation.

When I meant photos, I was thinking some users would post photos of their setups using the ideal lume. I just want to see what it looks like in use.

Aaron

Has anyone tried Cold Cathode tubes (like the kind that computer "case modders" use)? They are very inexpensive.

You'd have to get them big enough to actually produce a decent backlight and get them at a white 6500k.

agogley,

You're right, my last post did sound harsh. I was in hurry, under a lot of pressure, and should not have been so abrupt. You and this forum deserve better consideration.

We have worked very hard since January to offer improved products at a 20% to 37% lower cost than the former Standard and Plasma models. It's also still available from our online store to order component parts for our past models, or for building your own backlight with a cheaper fixture from a local source.

I've tried many times to capture with a camera the effect of 6500K bias lighting in actual use with a TV. My results have been unsatisfactory. I'm not a skilled enough photographer to get an effective image in a dark room with both the backlight on and an image on the screen. Maybe that's why there aren't many forum members submitting photos of their backlight installations.

I also don't believe a photo of a bias light in use can ever communicate the real benefits or impact of the technique. The experience just doesn't translate very well in a static, two-dimensional image format like a photograph. I'm sure other users would agree. Bias lighting works when the viewer is surrounded by darkness and observing a 30 ftL or greater electronic display in front of him. A photograph doesn't typically get that bright and is usually hard to see in a dark room.

The bias lighting technique is really very simple. The most difficult part is finding genuinely accurate illuminants and then getting the light dimmed to less than 10% of the brightest white on the screen. The original focus was not intended to be upon the backlight, or what it looks like in the room. SMPTE's recommendations are entirely to promote correct perception of the image on the display and extended viewing comfort.

Their work had little regard for interior design or how "cool" the backlighting might appear integrated into the decor. That's not to say a product like Philips' Ambilight or the Illuminaire versions couldn't fill a dual role. Those two products just have difficulty getting the part right that SMPTE recommends. That's where we excel and my company will remain focused upon what promotes image fidelity and viewing comfort.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George:

Thanks for the explanation. Your company certainly excels in technical application. That is why I am excited about your new product. It appears, at least to me, that your new product is geared towards providing image fidelity first, but also aiming to produce more of that "cool" effect. I hope that your company continues to look at the "cool" factor while remaining committed to image quality.

George:

Thanks for the explanation. Your company certainly excels in technical application. That is why I am excited about your new product. It appears, at least to me, that your new product is geared towards providing image fidelity first, but also aiming to produce more of that "cool" effect. I hope that your company continues to look at the "cool" factor while remaining committed to image quality.

Excuse me if I missed something, but I kept reading about the "new product" and I read the thread back and fourth and didn't know what you are referring to, is it the panel lights that you are talking about or they have something new that is not on the website?
thanks

Both the Ideal-Lume Standard and the new Ideal-Lume Panelight have been re-worked.

As George stated, the ideal lume standard and the panel-light have been reworked (I have been calling them new). The former model of the plasma/panel-light was for the top of the display only. The reworked model includes lights for the top and the bottom and apparently if you purchase two of the kits, you can have lighting all around. I've included a picture of my setup that includes the use of the older ideal-lume panel-light.

Aaron

Agogley, what are those speakers? I've been trying to find decent on-wall speakers that aren't too expensive. Those look good. Why did you choose to mount them so high? Thanks.

Agogley,
Is the illumination from the panel light that high or it because of the camera exposure, because it seems to be a little distracting on the ceiling.

Vashti:

The speakers came from a Pioneer Elite HTib. Everything you see, components, display, speakers are Pioneer Elite. Together they make quite the package. Many people don't like HTiBs, but I absolutely love mine. I mounted the speakers at the top because I think they look better there. In addition, when I sell my house, it will be easier to fix the wall if the buyer doesn't want the hookups.

Kenabb:

The effect you see is partly the camera and partly the fact that the ceiling is a satin white (it has a sheen). The illumination can be dimmed further with the included filter kit. My wife and I like it at this level because it is more comfortable for our eyes (less eye strain). We really don't notice the ceiling while watching movies. What you will come to realize is that unless you have loads of cash you have to deal with certain imperfections in your home theater setup. Walls aren't the perfect color, etc. You get over it and learn to appreciate what you have. After all, what I had before was a 25" CRT in the corner. Shoot...people in many countries live in huts.

Aaron

The Cinemaquest Ideal-Lume seems like a great product, but I think I'd have some reservations about using fluorescents as a bias for LCDs. Unless I'm mistaken, the Backlight on LCDs is also fluorescent. And I'm afraid that the flicker (even though it's not as bad as it used to be on older fluorescents) would probably get to me, especially if the fluorescent bias light is cycling at a different rate or out of phase with the LCD.

Thoughts?

I don't have any flicker on my ideal lume.

There's little to no perceptible flicker from the Backlights of LCDs either. But that doesn't necessarily negate what I'm referring to above.

ADU,

Older fluorescents with magnetic ballasts operated at line frequency (60 Hz). NTSC interlaced TV changed fields every 1/60th of a second. Can you handle watching NTSC television? HDTV at 1080i alternates at 60 Hz. Does that disturb you? Commercial film theaters operate at 48 images per second. Can you detect the flicker at that rate?

Our ballasts are electronic and operate at between 20,000 and 70,000 Hz. If you can perceive flicker at that rate, you are a unique individual. None of our 4,000+ Ideal-Lume customers have ever complained about flicker, unless they had a defective unit (which we promptly replaced).

Our various models are used by video and graphics production professionals in many industries. They are backlighting various types of displays operating at 30 Hz, 60 Hz, and assorted computer refresh rates. We have never received any complaints or comments other than compliments.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks for the reply George.

I'm not so much concerned with the refresh/frame rate of the display as with the conflicting frequencies of the two fluorescents light sources, namely the bias light and the Backlight on the LCD panel.

I'm certainly no expert in this area, but to give you an example, if you were designing the lighting for a room, I don't think you'd want to mix fluorescent bulbs of two different frequencies (even if they were very high frequencies). Or combine fluorescents with incandescents on a dimmer flickering at a different rate.

I've been reading up about bias lighting a bit in this thread and elsewhere, and have a few questions about its efficacy in my situation. I just purchased a 32" LCD that fits into a vertical cabinet (really more like an armoire) in the bedroom. It's taken a while to find a selection of bottom speaker-mounted LCD's that could fit the width of this cabinet, but finally I pulled the trigger. I'm most interested in bias lighting to improve the contrast and black-level detail on the LCD picture.

Questions:
1) The main cabinet opening is still a fairly tight fit for the LCD. There's only about 1.5 inches of gap on each side, about 3 inches on the top, and 3-4 inches on the bottom. Meanwhile I'm viewing the TV from about 8 feet away. Since the bias lighting is to fill more of the iris field of vision with light, is bias lighting the TV opening going to have much benefit? It would really be more of a narrow "halo" around the TV frame than the whole wall. Or should I be bias lighting the wall around the entire cabinet (though, since it's a vertical cabinet, only the sides would be backlit)?
2) 6500K is the recommended light color temperature. The cabinet opening is a dark brown wood stain color, which I presume changes the color temperature that is actually reflected back to the viewer. Is it still important then to use a 6500K light?

Thanks for your expert input...

I'm afraid that the flicker (even though it's not as bad as it used to be on older fluorescents) would probably get to me, especially if the fluorescent bias light is cycling at a different rate or out of phase with the LCD.

if you were designing the lighting for a room, I don't think you'd want to mix fluorescent bulbs of two different frequencies (even if they were very high frequencies). Or combine fluorescents with incandescents on a dimmer flickering at a different rate.

ADU,

I've never encountered any discussion of the potential problems you described. Neither have I experienced such a conflict personally.


wwu123,

It sounds like the best solution for you would be to mount a backlight behind the armoir, if there's room for it. As far as the color of the surrounding surfaces, 6500K lighting will be better than other types of illumination, regardless of neighboring colors. However, neutral surfaces will always preserve accurate perception of the screen content.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I've been reading up about bias lighting a bit in this thread and elsewhere, and have a few questions about its efficacy in my situation. I just purchased a 32" LCD that fits into a vertical cabinet (really more like an armoire) in the bedroom. It's taken a while to find a selection of bottom speaker-mounted LCD's that could fit the width of this cabinet, but finally I pulled the trigger. I'm most interested in bias lighting to improve the contrast and black-level detail on the LCD picture.

Questions:
1) The main cabinet opening is still a fairly tight fit for the LCD. There's only about 1.5 inches of gap on each side, about 3 inches on the top, and 3-4 inches on the bottom. Meanwhile I'm viewing the TV from about 8 feet away. Since the bias lighting is to fill more of the iris field of vision with light, is bias lighting the TV opening going to have much benefit? It would really be more of a narrow "halo" around the TV frame than the whole wall. Or should I be bias lighting the wall around the entire cabinet (though, since it's a vertical cabinet, only the sides would be backlit)?
2) 6500K is the recommended light color temperature. The cabinet opening is a dark brown wood stain color, which I presume changes the color temperature that is actually reflected back to the viewer. Is it still important then to use a 6500K light?

Thanks for your expert input...George is the expert. But I'll throw in my 2c as well, since this seems to be still a relatively new thing for LCD panels.

If the interior of the cabinet was lighter in color, then illuminating it might help. However I think you'd get as much if not more of the contrast enhancement effect you may be after by lighting the walls on either side of the cabinet, especially if, as George says, the walls are neutral or lighter/whiter-colored.

I have a feeling LCDs users will generally get better results with brighter, wider and as even as possible background illumination (similar to daylight) because of the difference in brightness/contrast ratio on their displays versus plasma and CRT. Even something as simple as two lamps with daylight/6500K bulbs (and dark shades?) on either side might do the trick.

I would try to keep as much light as possible (both direct and diffusely reflected) from hitting the screen though. Ie try to keep most of your illumination either behind or to the sides of the display.

The effect is much more subtle than in the photo.

Anyone ever looked at this stuff?

LinkyLink (http://www.extremeled.com/zled.aspx)

Looks like neon tubes but its actually a piece of shapable acrylic rod.

Our large shipment of new Ideal-Lume parts came in. We will be shipping out back orders of the new models starting tomorrow.

Here is a link to a new article I wrote recently about viewing environment principles and human visual perception. It has some good learning in it for anyone interested in image fidelity and achieving the optimum picture from any video display.

http://hometoys.com/wrap.php4?/htinews/dec05/articles/cinemaquest/crime.htm

Ohbrian,

I looked at the web site from your link. The chromaticity of their white LEDs is all over the map. My immediate concern, after the color issue, would be how much illumination is available from the rods since they only use 3 LEDs in the end cap.

My experiments with LED prototypes have shown that a lineal array of about 10 LEDs is minimum for a smaller TV. More than that would be needed if the TV is large, the wall is darker than near white, and the distance to the wall is greater. The samples I've worked with also changed chromaticity substantially when dimmed.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

OB:

Some people have used rope lights. This looks similar.

Sorry I haven't responded regarding my LED rope lighting. Here is where I got it: http://shop.bellacor.com/wall-lighting/Cabinet-Lighting/detail-55625.htm

It is 6500K and 9'. I used some double sided tape brackets to hold it on the back of the plasma. Here is a photo of my 50PX50U.

http://www.fulcrumfs.com/graphics/Jpg/biaslight.jpg

It's not quite as bright as the photo looks, I enhanced it in photoshop to highlight the effect.

Matt


Matt,
How did you run the rope around the back and make it look like the light is coming from all around the Monitor when the light rope is only 9' and the outside dimensions of the screen are much bigger than that?

did you move it in on all sides until if fit all the way around or what?

also, how do you control (on/off) the led light...you said by remote but could you elaborate? also where is your power for you PDP running?
thanks...

Although I've had bias lighting for a number of years, my recent purchase of a Sony SXRD brought back up the need to get a better color light. I've been using a simple 16W halogen spot on a dimmer, which is no where close to D65. Yesterday, I placed an order for an Ideal-Lume Standard, which should be delivered Monday.

In a world of global electronic corporations where the HT buyer is usually nothing more than a number, it was very nice to be treated as something more, Mr. Brown. I haven't even received the light but CinemaQuest has already earned my repeat business.

I'm going to have to play around with the placement of the IL, possibly even order a second one. The SXRD is about 19" deep, but, due to room layout, there is about 10"-12" of space between the back of the set and the flat-white wall. Currently, my back light is suspended from the underside of a shelf that holds the CC speaker above the TV. My first thought is to install the IL in the same location, rather than on the rear of the TV.

My concern is that I want to maximize the benefit from the light, but without illuminating the space that is to sides of the stand, which is about a 18" narrower than the TV and underneath the TV. The AC outlet on the wall, as well as a few cables, would be visible if those areas are lit.

Short of a major re-design, the only solution that I can come up with is to either limit the light's output to the top portion of the wall behind my TV, or to install some type of barrier near the base of the TV to block the light from reaching the floor.

Does anyone have a better idea? TIA.

tigerfan_9,

Yes, I attached the rope light about 4 to 6 inches inside the outer dimensions of the plasma. This allows the light to spread more evenly and you don't see the individual led lights. I probably could have used about 6 to 8 inches more length, but it is not that noticable.

I never got around to installing a remote. The rope light has a toggle switch and I mounted the light so that the switch is under the screen for easy access.

I had a power outlet installed behind the plasma (plus I replaced the standard outlet with a commercial-grade surge suppressor.) One outlet plug for the plasma, one for the led rope light.

Matt

Matt,
How did you run the rope around the back and make it look like the light is coming from all around the Monitor when the light rope is only 9' and the outside dimensions of the screen are much bigger than that?

did you move it in on all sides until if fit all the way around or what?

also, how do you control (on/off) the led light...you said by remote but could you elaborate? also where is your power for you PDP running?
thanks...

tigerfan_9,

Yes, I attached the rope light about 4 to 6 inches inside the outer dimensions of the plasma. This allows the light to spread more evenly and you don't see the individual led lights. I probably could have used about 6 to 8 inches more length, but it is not that noticable.

I never got around to installing a remote. The rope light has a toggle switch and I mounted the light so that the switch is under the screen for easy access.

I had a power outlet installed behind the plasma (plus I replaced the standard outlet with a commercial-grade surge suppressor.) One outlet plug for the plasma, one for the led rope light.

Matt

Where did you get the outlet (surge suppressor) and is the outlet recessed or flush? This is what I am looking to do when I get my plasma soon.

also, what speakers are those? i am looking for some like that to wall mount around my PDP (when i get it) just like that.

any other tips, advice, info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Stephen

I got the surge suppressor on Ebay (or google "leviton surge suppressor receptacle"). Use a 15Amp or 20Amp unit depending on the circuit (look in your electrical panel, the breaker will say 15 or 20Amp). It is not recessed. As far as I know the only recessed outlets are "clock outlets" but they don't come with surge suppressors.

Another suggestion for you is a shorter power cable for the plasma. They usually come with 6 foot cords that are way too long if you have the power outlet behind the plasma. I got an 18 inch "power strip liberator flat" cord with a right angle plug and a 1 foot IEC power cord and that works great. By using a right angle plug, you don't really need to get a recessed outlet.

The left and right speakers are Infinity SAT-1100 and the center is an Infinity TSS-CENTER4000.

Matt

My Ideal-Lume Standard was delivered yesterday. This was probably the best $45 I've spent on my system.

Did y'all notice the company that bought one of those side ads here at AVS (red, white, or blue)?
http://cyron.com/

God help us! Here we go again..... It just shows you, put a squirrelly idea on TV and everybody wants to imitate it. Thank you Philips. Sorta reminds me of the P Diddy soda truck incident. :cool:

This used to be the "AV Science" forum. Now it's becoming "Party Supplies R Us." More power to 'em. I'm sure there's a market out there for their products and they'll make people happy. Just don't confuse their approach with anything that legitimately enhances picture quality, image fidelity and correct color perception.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The sad thing is, a lot of people will get sucked in by it. When I first saw the Philip's ads, I was tempted as well. It was a matter of "cool-factor" overriding any intelligent thought. luckily, I wasn't in the market for a new TV at the time and I discovered AVS before it was too late.

WOW!!

I had no idea that this thread would grow to this proportion.

Makes me :D :D :D :D

FWIW, I have a few friends (http://betraythis.com) who have implemented either the light rope or Georges' product(s) or a farken desk lamp with a 6500K bulb in it.

Each and every time I get "what a difference", and it's always for the better.

Glad I could contribute. :)

If one was going to put a bias light on a set, what is required? A plug behind the set? (I was going to install a single recessed outlet with surge protector behind my set) If I wanted bias lighting, would I need to install another? Anybody know MSRP on these? Thanks.

i have a 6500k flourecent tube light mounted behing my 65" rptv and it really does make the tv look great. my question is does anybody know where or if i can get 6500k or very close incandecent bulbs or anything that would fit into a normal light socket. i would like all the light in my home theayer to match as close as possible. if not what should i do for the rear of the room, and no they wont be on when im watching the tv i just like the color they put out.

If one was going to put a bias light on a set, what is required? A plug behind the set? (I was going to install a single recessed outlet with surge protector behind my set) If I wanted bias lighting, would I need to install another? Anybody know MSRP on these? Thanks.

I am sure there are many different install techniques. My plasma sits in the middle of an entertainment center. My AV amp is in a cabinet in the same entertainment center. I plugged my Idealume bias light into the accessory AC plug in the back of my amp. When I turn on the plasma, the satellite receiver, and the AV amp, the bias light automatically illuminates. Others seem to prefer a dedicated AC plug and use the switch on the bias light or a remote control to turn the light on.

Attached is an image...

Thanks billt. So if people attach light to the back of the set, what does that mean for wall mounts. Wouldn't the back of the set be attached to mount and hence inaccessible for light placement?

Thanks billt. So if people attach light to the back of the set, what does that mean for wall mounts. Wouldn't the back of the set be attached to mount and hence inaccessible for light placement?

Somebody with a wall mounted plasma should answer that. But from the wall mounted applications I have seen there is enough clearance for an idealume. That begs your original question of where do you get power for the bias light.

jason86,

The only "6500K" options I've encountered that can screw into a standard 120 volt light bulb socket are spiral type compact fluorescents. They cannot be dimmed effectively and are usually not very close to 6500K when I've measured them. Their color rendering has been poor as well.

There are some LED array reflector lamps coming on the scene but this is relatively new. I don't know if there are any with screw bases. Incandescents have to be filtered significantly to reach CIE D65, which reduces their light output a lot. They also change color dramatically when dimmed, going orange.

MR16 tungsten/halogens are 12 Volt, with special bases. There are some that get up to 4200K or so, by tinting blue the reflector or a lens. Their color rendering is excellent but turn orange when dimmed. My Ideal-Lume Ultra task lamp uses a patented filtered tungsten/halogen illuminant from GretagMacbeth. It's spectral performance is nearly perfect compared to the theoretical CIE D65. We offer a mechanical iris option that reduces its output without changing the color temperature.

I think the best you're going to get, for a reasonable cost, would be the GE Reveal or equivalent bulbs. They are tinted blue, which is "minus yellow" in color space. Therefore, they will be less yellowish in the room. They won't be anywhere near 6500K but you will like the reduced yellow cast of the illumination. It's not so critical to be accurate since, as you said, they won't we used during TV viewing.

Vashti,

My Ideal-Lume Panelight model is specifically designed for wall-mounted TVs. The fixture is only 7/8 inch thick. My web site is the most coherant and accurate source for information about proper video bias lighting and viewing environment issues available. Save yourself a lot of time and review what's there: www.cinemaquestinc.com.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

My Ideal-Lume Standard was delivered yesterday. This was probably the best $45 I've spent on my system.Thanks for the comments Codeman. And thanks to all on this thread for many great ideas re: bias lighting.

After spending +$2k for my Panny th37px50u HD plasma, I'm personally choosing to spend an add'l $20-$25 to go w/ the Ideal-Lume Standard vs. the Home Depot rope light or flourescent light under cabinet options. The adjustable baffle, ease of installation, and R & D that CinemaQuest has put into the bias lighting arena are some major selling points.

I'll report back once I have reviewed the product.

WOW!!

I had no idea that this thread would grow to this proportion.

Makes me :D :D :D :D

FWIW, I have a few friends (http://betraythis.com) who have implemented either the light rope or Georges' product(s) or a farken desk lamp with a 6500K bulb in it.

Each and every time I get "what a difference", and it's always for the better.

Glad I could contribute. :)

Count me in as one who is experimenting with backlighting due to this thread.

I have always been a "light on in the room" person. There is too much flashing/etc on the screen for me in a completely darkened room. So I purchased an $8 gooseneck lamp and it definitely enhances the viewing experience... all lights out except the backlight. Now I need to try some different bulbs to find out what is optimum for me.

Hmmm. I would think if you mounted or "placed" and Idea-Lume standard behind a wall mount TV you wouldn't get a consistent lighting experience out of it.

For instance, if you mounted above the wall mounting hardware, wouldn't a shadow be visible below the TV as the light is blocked by the mounting hardware? Reverse if you mounted the light below the mounting hardware.

wouldn't a shadow be visible below the TV as the light is blocked by the mounting hardware? Reverse if you mounted the light below the mounting hardware.

The pattern of illumination on the wall is not critical. It would be ideal to have a continuous halo around the screen for the best improvement of black level perception. Another issue that may conflict is nearby on-wall speakers casting a shadow. Most of the benefits of backlighting a TV only require that some supplemental illumination be present within your field of view while observing the screen. A continuous halo around the screen would be aesthetically pleasing but challenging to accomplish in every case and with correct color. I think we have come the closest to providing this for wall-mounted panels with the use of two of our dual fixture Panelight products.

jason86,

I have also seen screw-in compact fluorescents claiming to be 6500K that are not the spiral type. They are usually 2 to 4 straight sections mounted to a transformer/ballast base that can screw into a bulb socket. There are also some 5000K models out there. Just be aware that low CRI ratings mean that some colors may look very strange under the illumination.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Somebody with a wall mounted plasma should answer that. But from the wall mounted applications I have seen there is enough clearance for an Ideal Lume. That begs your original question of where do you get power for the bias light.

I wish I could have used the Ideallume light. I have a slim line mount that is less than 3/4" from the back of the plasma. So, ropelight was my only choice; luckily the led version I have works very well.

Most other mounts will probably give you enough space for the newer and smaller Ideal Lumes.

Re power, just use the outlet that the display uses.

After reading this thread and hearing George's inputs, I am considering buying an Idealume for my new purchased Pioneer 50" plasma. One issue :

I plan on mounting it to the middle section of some built-ins and will have to bring the plasma forward about 20" from the wall to sit closer to the front of the unit. I already have a Sanus mount VMDD26(m.s.r.p. $619) that will allow me to do this. The built-ins are completely white.........

Will the Idealume do any good if sitting about 20" away from the nearest wall in the rear? Sides will only be about 4" away from built-ins. Thanks.

Marcus,

You could get by with the Standard model. There's plenty of room for the illumination to spread out back there behind your TV.

Matt,

A simple 1/4 inch shimming of the bracket would have allowed use of our stuff. Your LEDs may be fine, I just have yet to encounter any "6500K" LEDs that measured very well. They tend to be way too blue. "White" LEDs are actually a blue-ish LED with color-corrrecting phosphor added. Usually you can see the yellow-ish phosphor if you look into them straight on when they're turned off.

In color space, the yellow shift will move the illumination away from the blue portion of the spectrum. The LED lasts much longer than the phosphor and the illumination starts to shift further into the blue as they age.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George - One user in this thread mentioned a problem he had with plugging your light into the receiver to turn on when TV (receiver) turns on, and that this caused his bulb to burn out in 3 months. Is this mode of operation not recommended?

I would like to have the light on during use of the TV, but off while TV is off. Plugging it into the receiver seems to be the best way to achieve this. If this isn't recommended, can you provide an alternate method?

Thanks.

mangriotis,

I replace failed product within the warranty period. There should be no problem with using just about any external switch. Using the light for all viewing, in addition to dark room sessions, may be convenient but wastes much of the lamp life. Bias lighting is only effective or needful in a dark room. There are a variety of remotely controlled on/off switches on our web site.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks for the info on this thread. I've ordered the Idea-Lume Standard and look forward to receiving it!

I have the Panelight on order. I will do a full review when I set it up and use it for a few days.

Stay tuned!

John

George - One user in this thread mentioned a problem he had with plugging your light into the receiver to turn on when TV (receiver) turns on, and that this caused his bulb to burn out in 3 months. Is this mode of operation not recommended?

I would like to have the light on during use of the TV, but off while TV is off. Plugging it into the receiver seems to be the best way to achieve this. If this isn't recommended, can you provide an alternate method?

Thanks.

I use an IR-543 (IR to X10 converter) and a Smarthome appliance module to turn my Ideallume bias light on/off via remote. Works great. Couldn't be happier.

Well after all the talk about this I decided to try it out. For starters I went the cheap route with rope light from Home Depot. I followed the other posters advice about using a 6' and 2' section for a 42" plasma. I also bought the U shaped track that has double sided tape to hold it to the back of the panel. So for a grand total of $11 this really made a difference for night time viewing of movies.

I am interested in getting the Ideal-lume now but I have a shallow wall mount that maybe has a 1/2" gap between it and the panel for light to show through and no gap on the sides. So how would that work?

Anyway here is a pic of what the panel looks like with the rope backlight on...

http://static.flickr.com/26/90400812_cac27c2717.jpg

I am interested in getting the Ideal-lume now but I have a shallow wall mount that maybe has a 1/2" gap between it and the panel for light to show through and no gap on the sides. So how would that work?

The Ideal-Lume Panelight is 7/8" thick, so you would have to shim out the mount. Most panels have a bevel on the back side at the outer edges that allows more space behind the perimeter. Most mounts are not as low profile as yours.

The SMPTE document that recommends backlighting of video displays spends most of its time addressing the importance of using an illuminant that is as close to CIE D65 (D6500K) as possible. They were most concerned about preserving correct color perception of the TV image while incorporating bias lighting. Using the wrong color of light will alter the viewer's color perception.

Once again, the color of the wall behind the TV should be neutral. Its coloration can alter the color of the light reflected by it. However, if there is some coloration in the wall, a 6500K illumination will still be better than any other color of light. The wrong color of light only adds more color to the reflected illumination. Your rope light is not likely the same color as video white. You get to decide what's most important to you in your installation.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks George. There is at least an 1.25" between the back of the panel and the wall, I was talking about the gap between the mount and the back of the panel and how light would shine thru that if I mounted a light in the center of the back, but I see you mentioned the Panelight which I somehow missed before so that solves that problem. And i would get 2 of those to cover all 4 sides if I wanted. Is that recommended or necessary?

Right now the wall is anything but neutral. It's a green color, like avocado skin, not my choice. Currently I'm in the process of mounting things to the walls and moving things around. Once that is all complete I'll be painting the room either a neutral taupe or stone color. Thats when the plasma will be off the wall again and then I'll use the proper Ideal-lume light. I just wasn't sure I'd like the effect so for $11 the rope light was an easy test.

With that small of a panel I would suggest starting with just the 2 fixtures that come in the Panelight model. If that doesn't give you enough coverage you can consider adding one or two more fixtures. Installing them closer to the mount, instead of toward the outer perimeter of the TV, tends to allow the illumination to spread out on the wall more.

A helpful compromise on room decor is to mix neutral gray on the wall behind the TV with highlights of the color on the other walls. In other words, start with a complimentary tone of gray or various grays as a base, then add some taupe texture or pattern with one of those texturing sponges or some other means. White is also neutral. The only wall that's critical is the one that is within your field of view while watching the TV. People who have tried the neutral background are amazed with how much more pleasing the color appears on the TV.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

http://www.bellacor.com/detail.cfm?Cat=38&ItemID=55619&Loc=results_1_page_1&Page=1&UserID=FE0905D0-A3FB-65D1-5B4EF8F344AC86E5&Link=Header&Track=0
this warm white ropelight sounds nice!

With that small of a panel I would suggest starting with just the 2 fixtures that come in the Panelight model. If that doesn't give you enough coverage you can consider adding one or two more fixtures. Installing them closer to the mount, instead of toward the outer perimeter of the TV, tends to allow the illumination to spread out on the wall more.

A helpful compromise on room decor is to mix neutral gray on the wall behind the TV with highlights of the color on the other walls. In other words, start with a complimentary tone of gray or various grays as a base, then add some taupe texture or pattern with one of those texturing sponges or some other means. White is also neutral. The only wall that's critical is the one that is within your field of view while watching the TV. People who have tried the neutral background are amazed with how much more pleasing the color appears on the TV.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks for the tips!

DieselClown,

The "warm white" is stated as "approximately" 4000K. They offer a "cool white" version that claims to be "approximately" 6500K, which should offer better color rendition than the warm white. The 4000K will likely appear yellowish compared to video white. My experience with measuring LED products that claim to be 6500K has shown they are typically are significantly more blue than that. I have had a variety of LED sent to me by various diode manufacturers. The 'Illuminaire' brand of products measured at 8500K and they flatly state theirs to be 6500K.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George,

I have been following your discussion of the color of the wall behind the plasma. I have a 42" plasma on a table about 8" from the wall. I live in a log home and the wall is natural roundish logs (light to medium in color). I cannot change the color or uneven texture of the wall. How will this affect the reflected light.

Thanks...
Steve

Tuesday evening I received the Ideal-Lume panel light ordered on Friday. It was well packaged as has been previously stated. Instructions were minimal. Surprisingly there were no generic type diagrams of recommended installation methods.

My current setup: Panasonic th37px50u plasma mounted on supplied pedestal stand sitting on top of a 24” high wood cabinet. Back of panel is approx. 3” from wall. Existing room & back wall covering is a muted gold/tan pattern wallpaper. Viewing distance: 8’- 6”.

I experimented & eventually settled on mounting the Ideal-Lume light centered on the back of the plasma cabinet. Supplied Velcro strips were used for attachment. Weight of lamp/base causes unit to tilt down slightly, but appears to hold fine.

A plastic tube/baffle is attached around the light, & can be rotated to achieve the amount of light preferred. If the baffle is not strategically placed, an annoying large strip of light will glare at the ceiling (as much as 12” dp). Conversely, to reduce light as much as possible on top & keep light from glaring on ceiling, the light glares at the bottom. This is the adjustment that worked best in my case. Downward projected light glowed prominently off the base of silver pedestal stand. I have a center channel in front of the base that helps minimize the glare somewhat, but painting the base black or covering w/ a dark surface would help. A clear plastic diffuser/cover goes over the light once baffle adjustments are made

Light coming from the sides of the plasma shown on nearby white door molding & was distracting as well. I found myself wanting to dial the light back further than was allowed by the baffle.

Effects to the screen were mostly positive. I can definitely see how this will help w/ eye strain vs. a totally dark room. My wife liked it immensely for this reason alone. I’m not sure yet about more detailed blacks, etc.. as more A-B comparisons are needed; but picture was pleasing. I’ll definitely revisit a calibration disk to get best settings.

Biggest problem is the distractions of “seeing things” near the plasma cause of the light source coupled w/ my particular room walls & layout. I need to live w/ it some before drawing a final conclusion, but it’s a keeper if only for the eyestrain relief.

I cannot change the color or uneven texture of the wall. How will this affect the reflected light.

sbeck37923,

Regarding the color:

Once again, the color of the wall behind the TV should be neutral. Its coloration can alter the color of the light reflected by it. However, if there is some coloration in the wall, a 6500K illumination will still be better than any other color of light. The wrong color of light only adds more color to the reflected illumination.

Regarding the uneven nature of a log wall, you will get uneven reflections. The farther out from the wall the TV and backlight are, the more even the illumination will appear on the wall.

rhcorolla,

Instructions were minimal. Surprisingly there were no generic type diagrams of recommended installation methods.

Unfortunately, it is impractical for us to attempt to provide detailed instructions for the myriad of TVs, wall mounts, and install variations in use today. This is not a complex technology or product. We rely on each customer's familiarity with their own particular equipment, room, tastes, installation peculiarities, common sense and a little experimentation.

We are a very small company. I'm not a graphic artist, nor can we yet afford to hire one to generate the kind of diagrams found in many products' informational documents. You may have noticed that we don't advertise anywhere. Our marketing budget is very small. All marketing expenses must be passed on to the consumer by folding it into the selling price of the product. We have chosen to pursue industry exposure that costs us very little. This has allowed us to keep our prices down. In fact, our two newest models' revisions included substantial price reductions.

We believe successful implementation of video backlighting depends most of all upon an understanding of the fundamental objectives. Those being:

#1. To provide supplemental illumination around but behind the screen when viewing in the dark.

#2. That illumination should be less than 10% of the brightest white on the screen.

#3. The color of white light used should be as close to CIE D65 (D6500K) as possible.

#4. The color of the wall should be as neutral as possible to preserve accurate color perception.

Once the fundamental principles are understood, the proper installation should be simple to accomplish for an individual system. We actually provide more of the really vital information required to get it right, than any competing product available.

Most of what Philips instructs their Ambilight users to do is actually destructive to image fidelity, viewing comfort and is contrary to proven principles of imaging science. The other competing products for backlighting televisions currently available just try to emulate Philips' approach.

Readers of this forum have achieved better results on their own, than Philips has with all their R&D resources and God only knows how many engineers. Our goal is not to provide something cool, new and interesting. Our primary objective is always to help people get the best image their TV can provide. If you have specific questions about your individual installation, we are eager to help. You may have noticed I have spent a lot of time contributing to this thread and forum. Most of my posts have been generic in nature, rather than focused on discussing my products. One exception has been when responding to specific questions about the use or nature of what my company builds.

I'm genuinely interested in educating the readers of this forum about imaging science, for their benefit. I know many readers have built their own backlighting with various measures of success. If I can help them along to build their own solution correctly to meet a limited budget, I don't mind. Good will has a way of benefiting everybody eventually.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hey y'all. I've been reading in this thread about the importance of neutral colored walls behind the plasma. My living room walls are sponged a shade of mustardy yellow - which like all sponging is in various amounts of intensity in different spots. I worked hard on the paint and am not interested in changing it. Does this mean I am a bad candidate for bias lighting. If I did use a light, would it be distracting? Thanks.

Vashti,

GeorgeAB or others can maybe address your situation best, but as I recall you were talking about wall mounting a 50" plasma, so what is distance of plasma back to wall? In my case, the gold/tan pattern wallpaper is similar to your wall, but my plasma is sitting on a pedestal & is 3" away from the wall. The bias lighting definitely helps w/ eyestrain & appears to enhance colors/black details. Distractions I mentioned may lessen w/ time (I've only watched for 2 nights now, but I did not notice distractions nearly as much last night, so I'm getting used to it).

Good luck

Vashti,

I worked hard on the paint and am not interested in changing it. Does this mean I am a bad candidate for bias lighting. If I did use a light, would it be distracting?

Once again, the color of the wall behind the TV should be neutral. Its coloration can alter the color of the light reflected by it. However, if there is some coloration in the wall, a 6500K illumination will still be better than any other color of light. The wrong color of light only adds more color to the reflected illumination.

There is no such thing as a bad candidate for bias lighting. The whole subject is based upon imaging science, display standards, the perceptual characteristics of the human visual system and decades of proven practice. Bias lighting is the opposite of distracting, when correctly implemented. The only down-side to your wall color is that it will skew your color perception of the TV's image.

Any light in the room will still contaminate the image on your TV, unless it originates from behind the screen and doesn't brightly illuminate the whole room. Viewing comfort is enhanced in a darkened viewing environment with the use of bias lighting.

You have a right to your own priorities. If image fidelity and achieving the best picture a TV can deliver is a lesser priority than interior design, most walls may likely not be neutral. White or some shade of gray are technically color-neutral. When dominant vivid colors surround an image, our brain interprets the image as containing less of that color. In other words, it works subtractively in 'color space.' This perceptual characteristic is unavoidable. In professional video post-productions facilities there are no dominant vivid colors. Neutrals prevail.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

If image fidelity and achieving the best picture a TV can deliver is a lesser priority than interior design, most walls may likely not be neutral. White or some shade of gray are technically color-neutral...In professional video post-productions facilities there are no dominant vivid colors. Neutrals prevail.
Ahhh, In the real world, I can see it playing out this way ...

Husband: Let's get this big plasma/lcd !

Wife: I don't know, it seems so big & costs so much money !

Husband: How 'bout if we paint the wall behind the plasma white or some shade of gray like a professional video post-production facility. Would you like it better then?

WAF: Wife Approval Factor becomes WDF: Wife Denial Factor

The "real" world? The video consuming masses care little to nothing about "AV Science." They want an appliance that works "good enough," and that they can afford. Technical details only burden and bore them. Their priorities don't include even understanding how to use basic picture controls properly. Most TVs sold last year in the US were direct-view CRTs, and not the big ones.

Maybe I'm naive, but I assume anyone reading this forum has an exceptional interest in what it takes to get the best picture on their equipment. Most women know that their face looks less than its best if they wear a conflicting color garment, the wrong shade of makeup or choose the wrong hair color. They understand this principle when it applies to a subject they care about. No one has probably ever told them the same principle applies to TV viewing environments.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

My current setup: Panasonic th37px50u plasma mounted on supplied pedestal stand sitting on top of a 24” high wood cabinet. Back of panel is approx. 3” from wall. Existing room & back wall covering is a muted gold/tan pattern wallpaper. Viewing distance: 8’- 6”.



rhcorolla,

My Idle Lume, 37" Plasma experience is nearly identical. Right now, I'm wrapping a black shirt around my stand (I have an 8uk and with a silver stand I purchased on E-b*) to reduce the glare from the backlight. I'm going to paint the stand in the spring. When I find the time, I'm going to fine tune the amount and dispersion of the back light with black electrical tape on the baffle.

Not only is eye-strain history, I'm able to perceive more details and depth in the picture.

AK

Vashti,

GeorgeAB or others can maybe address your situation best, but as I recall you were talking about wall mounting a 50" plasma, so what is distance of plasma back to wall? In my case, the gold/tan pattern wallpaper is similar to your wall, but my plasma is sitting on a pedestal & is 3" away from the wall. The bias lighting definitely helps w/ eyestrain & appears to enhance colors/black details. Distractions I mentioned may lessen w/ time (I've only watched for 2 nights now, but I did not notice distractions nearly as much last night, so I'm getting used to it).

Good luck

Good memory, rhcololla. Because I'm still doing research, I don't know exactly how far tv will be from wall. I'm hoping for an articulating mount, which would put panel about 3" from wall (but my old plaster studless wall may not be able to support it) Anyway, thanks for the feedback on yours. I think I'll wait to see what panel does without light first. I very well may add it later. You guys, especially you George AB, are all persuasive enough that I think I'll put in an extra outlet in case I want it. Thanks, all.

I just got my panel light installed. WOW! It is awesome. I will do a full review when I have some more hours of usage under my belt.

I put some green florescent lights on the back of my P50. Take a look here (http://home.comcast.net/~thedondada/pc/boo_01.jpg)
And here's a picture of what it looks like on the back (http://home.comcast.net/~thedondada/pc/lights_01.jpg). In the other forum somebody said they'd get tired of the green real quick. But for movies I love it. I turn my lights on almost every time. Cost was something like 16 for the lights and 24 for a power plug. Cuz the lights go on a PC and normally connect to the harddrive connector.

I attached a picture of something I haven't seen before but it could be an idea for bias lighting. I just don't know if it would be bright enough. They sell it in different lengths and it can change to white, red, or green. Smallest I saw was 7 feet, but it's less than $20 and can use batteries or an AC adapter. Anyone try one of these behind their plasma? It is flexible and is illuminated the whole length, so no gaps between bulbs or anything. Looked interesting anyway.

Edit: It's called Litewire and I saw a picture of it used to create something that looked like a neon sign when lit up.

pj2004,

I got some of the stuff to experiment with. You're right in suspecting it won't be bright enough for backlighting. It's also very difficult to achieve 6500K. The lifespan of the stuff is very limited, especially if it's run at full brightness. There is a wide, flat form of the stuff avialable from another company as well. It also has serious application limitations for backlighting.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

thedonn,

In the other forum somebody said they'd get tired of the green real quick. But for movies I love it. I turn my lights on almost every time.

The way human color perception works, surrounding your TV with vivid green light is subtracting green from the picture. Another way to accomplish this would be to wear magenta tinted glasses when you watch TV. Magenta is opposite green in "color space." The tinted glasses might even be cheaper than the green lighting. :cool:

You might prefer wearing the same glasses when you attend a movie theater. That way, when you watch the DVD on your TV with the green backlighting, you won't have to wear the magenta tinted glasses and still see the movie like it appeared in the theater.

If you want movies on your TV to look like the colorist intended when the film was converted to DVD, use 6500K backlighting instead of green. Image fidelity....what an unusual concept. :rolleyes:

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

rhcorolla,

My Idle Lume, 37" Plasma experience is nearly identical. Right now, I'm wrapping a black shirt around my stand (I have an 8uk and with a silver stand I purchased on E-b*) to reduce the glare from the backlight. I'm going to paint the stand in the spring. When I find the time, I'm going to fine tune the amount and dispersion of the back light with black electrical tape on the baffle.

Not only is eye-strain history, I'm able to perceive more details and depth in the picture.

AKakpokey, Thanks for the great ideas! The black shirt over the silver stand is an easy way to experiment w/ the glare before committing to paint. And the black electrical tape over the baffle is another good method to tweak the light dispersion. If you don't like it, you just pull it off & try again.

Excellent strategies. I will definitely try both of them out this weekend.

...I'm hoping for an articulating mount, which would put panel about 3" from wall (but my old plaster studless wall may not be able to support it).Vashti,

Are you positive about your wall construction?. I’ve dealt w/ wood lath & plaster walls in a lot of houses. Typically the horizontal wood slats are attached to 2 x 4 (true size 2 x 4) studs on 16 in. centers before plaster is applied. Granted, the studs are much harder to find though because of the many horizontal wood slats, but they should be there (the horizontal wood strips have to attach to some vertical supports somehow).

Currently I use a small clamp on desk lamp with a GE Reveal (http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/products/reveal_main.htm) 60watt bulb on a remote controlled X10 dimmer module behind the top of my tv pointed toward the almond/white colored wall facing downward. It's not perfect but it works pretty good. Been using this method for about 4 years. Been considering a ideal-lume for awhile though. :)

Vashti,

Are you positive about your wall construction?. I’ve dealt w/ wood lath & plaster walls in a lot of houses. Typically the horizontal wood slats are attached to 2 x 4 (true size 2 x 4) studs on 16 in. centers before plaster is applied. Granted, the studs are much harder to find though because of the many horizontal wood slats, but they should be there (the horizontal wood strips have to attach to some vertical supports somehow).


My super told me that we had no studs - that the plaster went all the way through to the brick. I'd never heard of a wall without studs before, but it seems like he should know. Sadly, this makes all my plans much more complex (hanging plasma, speakers, etc.) Any suggestions are welcome or feel free to PM me since this is off topic for this thread. Thanks.

Most likely this has been asked before, but this thread is looong. Anyway my 55" hitachi is on a stand 2' from the wall, and backed by a large cream natural colored curtain. There is a window behind the set location that is off center and we went with the large curtains to center it. Will I get any adverse backlighting affect with that surface behind the set?

Motovet,

Your setup is nearly ideal, especially having the TV that far out from the wall. Mounting a TV flat on the wall, or recessed to make the screen flush with the wall, may be desireable from an interior decorating angle. Such methodology is actually not ideal for extended viewing of typical TV images. Most people's eyes tire if limited to focusing upon one plane for extended periods. This principle isn't critical in commercial movie theaters, due to the size of the image and the much dimmer screen (8 - 12 fL. vs. 30 - 100+ fL.). Vision specialists recommend that extended computer monitor use be interspersed with frequent breaks to re-focus the eyes on other objects. This principle applies both to darkened and fully illuminated viewing environment conditions.

The color of the drape could be more neutral (white to gray, solid or patterned) but it sounds like you're not far off. At least it's not a vivid color. Surrounding an image with any color alters our perception of the image. Providing a neutral surround preserves correct color perception.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks for the quick reply. Would backlighting work well with that surface also?

A non-glossy surface, with a pattern, texture or 3-D character, enhances extended viewing comfort. Your drape is nearly ideal, both for a well lit room or a dark room with bias lighting in use.

My point was, the drape only lacks a true neutral color to be completely ideal for use with backlighting. Your surface is fine, for the variety of reasons explained above.

Thanks again.

Now if I can only decide on a receiver my room will be complete.

Installed the ideal-lume standard behind my set the other day, and now have settled on the best placement to get good even lighting. I LIKE it! Makes a difference in picture quality, and is definately the ticket for dark room viewing. Thanks George...great product.

I got my rope light put up tonight. Thanks for the advice! I think it does make a difference in picture quality, but probably not much of one. It's easier to watch TV for an extended period of time though.

And it looks pretty sweet :)

Motovet,

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm always pleased when people realize the benefits of correctly implementing imaging science principles. Beautiful pictures are assured when the SMPTE standards and practices are followed. Video program producers, manufacturers, system designers, installers and consumers are all benefited when imaging industry standards and practices are understood, respected and faithfully applied all along the line.

There has been no lack of poorly executed products and services delivered to home theater consumers. The educational mission of the Imaging Science Foundation has helped many become aware of what constitutes genuine value in accurate video. Joe Kane Productions keeps emphasizing that it's "all about the art." The AV Science forum continues to offer a consistent venue for focusing on these valuable principles. I encourage anyone using this forum to persist in searching beyond the varying opinions that certainly abound, to learn about the fundamental principles that define quality imaging.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

i just got my ideal-lume light still playing
with mounting position it is a very well
made piece and i like the results.
thanks george for a great product.

Here's a link to bias lighting I rigged for my set-up:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=599032

Inexpensive and works great. Can be adapted to individual displays fairly easily. I'll try to post some actual pictures of the set-up.

i just got my ideal-lume light still playing
with mounting position it is a very well
made piece and i like the results.
thanks george for a great product.Results?

I cross-posted this in another thread to answer questions about this, and thought I'd post it to this more heavily-trafficed therad as well...

See this link to CinemaQuest's affordable, plasma bias fixtures, the Ideal-Lume Standard ($44.95) or the PanelLight ($79.95).

http://cinemaquestincn.goemerchant7.com/index.cgi?PageToView=catalog&Department=70357&Cartid=23081017203124&Merchant=cinemaquestincn&ExpandedDepts=

You can use a cheap Home Depot fixture, but since dimmers can't be used with fluorescents, you'll have to find another way to reduce the light output and devise an aperture to focus the backlight so that it doesn't spill extraneous light and harsh shadows all over your room, ceiling and nearby furniture. The CinemaQuest kits provide everything you need to control the light, including neutral density diffusing material to cover the tube and a rotating baffle to focus the light. The amount of diffusing material needed will vary depending on the amount of ambient light in your room.

The whole idea behind plasma bias lighting is to use a color neutral light source to increase the viewer's perception that they are seeing more contrast than they really see, without altering their perception of color accuracy. Plasma TVs benefit from their use because the inherent design of these displays allows some light from each pixel to spill over onto adjacent pixels across the entire screen. This actually reduces the contrast of the images we see and prevents plasma technology from reproducing the deepest black levels. Newer designs and manufacturing procedures are being devised to improve plasma contrast and black reproduction. The new, 9th generation Panasonic plasmas just being delivered boast 10,000:1 contrast ratios (more than double that of displays offered by some manufacturers) and we may find that these new systems reproduce better blacks. The jury is still out since these are just becoming available.

So, ideally, you want to use specially made D65 (6500 Kelvin) fluorescent tubes as a plasma bias light, and place the plasma in front of a color neutral wall (such as a charcoal gray). D50 (5000 Kelvin) fluorescent tubes also can be used if the wall colors and other lighting in the room all are color neutral, but D65 is ideal for most homes and offices with mixed types of lighting (windows/incandescent/fluorescent). The warm yellow output of "rope" lights are a big no-no for plasma bias lighting. D50 actually has a warm (slight yellow) color cast, and accurately simulates the appearance of sunlight at noon as perceived by a standard observer. D65 lighting is slightly cooler in appearance (a very, very subtle blue color cast) that helps compensate for the very warm color cast of tungsten (incandescent) light sources. Other fluorescent tubes may have warmer (yellow-brown or even yellow-green) color casts. If you're a real perfectionist, you should use color neutral room lighting as well (such as daylight-balanced D50 halogen, instead of tungsten fixtures on dimmers). However, these fixtures and lamps can be expensive.

Also, cheap Home Depot/Wal-Mart fluorescent fixtures have to be replaced every couple of years because the ballast always gets noisy with age, eventually wears out and will not start.

I presently have a Panasonic TH 37PX50U and I'm looking at the Ideal-Lume standard light but I'm unsure if backlighting will create the desired halo effect because I do not have a wall directly behind my display to disperse light evenly. Because of the living room's odd shape, the TV/entertainment center is at a 45 degree angle from the wall, similar to this \ . Is there going to a problem creating this "halo" effect without a wall directly behind the display? Thank you.

mbroadus,

I responded to the e-mail you sent me with your question.

gmwedding,

SMPTE recommends ambient lighting in critical color television viewing environments should be as close a possible to CIE D65 [SMPTE RP166-1995, 5.3]. That is the white point for all color video. D50 is a graphics industry specification and has absolutely nothing to do with color video. Old black and white films should be viewed using a monitor grayscale calibrated white point of D54, since that was the color of the light produced by the old carbon arc projector lamps used in those days.

They also recommend neutral-colored surfaces within the observer's field of view. Their specific color reference for "neutral" is from the Munsell Color Order System, from gray to white. Non-neutral surfaces would change the color of the reflected illumination in the room.

Best regards,
Alan

mbroadus,

I responded to the e-mail you sent me with your question.

Best regards,
Alan

Thanks, appreciate the quick reply!!

...SMPTE recommends ambient lighting in critical color television viewing environments should be as close a possible to CIE D65 [SMPTE RP166-1995, 5.3]. That is the white point for all color video. D50 is a graphics industry specification and has absolutely nothing to do with color video. Old black and white films should be viewed using a monitor grayscale calibrated white point of D54, since that was the color of the light produced by the old carbon arc projector lamps used in those days.

They also recommend neutral-colored surfaces within the observer's field of view. Their specific color reference for "neutral" is from the Munsell Color Order System, from gray to white. Non-neutral surfaces would change the color of the reflected illumination in the room...

GeorgeAB and the group:

D65 is definitely the best choice and yes, what George Alan Brown writes is true about D50 being a professional graphics industry standard. I mentioned the D50 standard because people need to know it exists (for context) and because even it would be a better solution than all the 3200 Kelvin (or warmer) "rope" lights being discussed here that are just a terrible plasma bias backlight solution. Also, the D50 standard is very close to the 4700 Kelvin temperature of some D50 halogen fixture products that one also can get for room lighting.

Finally, for me, D50 is always a consideration because I'm a photographer, and many of us now are caught between the video and graphics standards as we begin to produce professional still slide shows for HDTV. Is it possible that some pro photographers might want to have a D50 plasma bias backlight, if they are using the plasma in a graphics standards-compliant editing room?

George: I'm just preparing to order one of your CinemaQuest plasma bias fixtures (the PanelLight). It appears to be a well thought-out system. Keep up the good work! How durable is the ballast on these?

gmwedding,

D65 is not the best choice for color video, it's the correct choice. The 6500K lamps are every bit as easy to locate at retail as 5000K daylight fluorescents. We offered an Ideal-Lume Graphics backlight for about a year and a half. It didn't sell very well, but we didn't devote any time to marketing it agressively to the appropriate markets. This home theater community keeps us pretty busy. I put together an Ideal-Lume Pro for a customer the other day with a GretagMacbeth 7 phosphor D50 illuminant. He was an avid photographer who wanted to build his own viewing booth. I have always tried to help people with special requirements. Give me a call if you want.

I doubt you will encounter very many HDTVs set up for D50. If you are producing these slide shows for general exhibition, I would suggest you master them with video in mind, rather than graphics standards and practices. If you have the control over what display will be used for exhibition, most displays these days allow for multiple color temperatures in their memories and can be calibrated to offer both D65 and D50.

We are still looking for a 5000K T5 lamp to go in our new T5 fixtures. I have yet to locate anything better than 84CRI. We require at least a 90CRI. Our new fixtures are not yet even 6 months old. They have dead quiet electronic ballasts and a 1 year warranty.

Best regards,
Alan

I installed the rope lighting around the mount for my 50phd8uk about 8" from the outer edge of the tv. I was hoping this would obscure the view of the bulbs while looking from the side of the tv from the adjoining room. No dice.
How does the ideal-lume look from the side when on?
Do I need the 1 or 2 light model for best results with the 8uk?
opinions? thanks

dfresh,

How does the ideal-lume look from the side when on?

You can try mounting it a variety of ways to reduce direct visability of the bulb from the side. The new rotating mechanical baffle tube should help in this regard.

Do I need the 1 or 2 light model for best results with the 8uk?

The Ideal-Lume Panelight has 2 fixtures included to provide more even encirclement of the entire perimeter of a wall-mounted plasma or LCD panel. Much depends on your type of wall mount, how dark the wall color may be, how reflective the back side of the TV is, or other installation variables. Two Panelight models can be used for installation behind all 4 edges of the TV. This method may be necessary for very large panels.

opinions?

I suggest you study the product descriptions and draw your own conclusions based upon your knowledge of your particular equipment and installation. If you order the product and it doesn't work out to your liking, you may return it in 'as new' condition for a refund. It's difficult for me to offer much more of an analysis of the best solution without seeing your installation and/or knowing more about your personal preferences.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

These lights have got to be the best money can by. Very nice design in the matter of 6 inputs for 6 bars of light. I have the Pioneer Elite 1130 and purchased the cyron with 2 15 inch sticks and 2 of the smaller (I believe 6 inch sticks). The lights are very strong and they are easy to attach with the sticky wire holders from home depot. If I could do it over I would of got 4 15 inch sticks as the smaller sticks dont do the plasma sides justice. Whats really cool is at night if you play your music you can set the lights to music mode and they do a great job of adjusting colors and speed to make you feel like you are in a club. I am about to see if Cyron has an addition connector so that I can have about 8 sticks, this way I can put them behind my front speakers and my center channel. As far as the colors, their is every color in the rainbow and you can even have it fade from color to color. Hope this helps

And we thought disco was dead. :)

George,

I sure appreciate your thoughtful and informative replies throughout this thread. I was just directed to this thread the other day and after reading the first page or two decided to run over to Home Depot and try out the rope light mentioned by the thread originator. I am very happy with the improvement over a completely dark room, but not thrilled with the yellow glow that's been mentioned ad nauseum. I will definitely be upgrading to an Idealume eventually, but after the purchase of the TV, will need to wait a little while to let the "checkwriter" settle down a bit.

In the meantime, a couple questions for you..

1) I think I understand the difference between the color temperature and the intensity of the light, but to clarify, with your mechanical iris, will I be able to adjust the "brightness" of the light so that I don't feel like I'm in a well-lit "day-light" filled room? (did that make sense?!? it is 3:58am...)

2) My 37" Sceptre LCD is sitting on top of a 5 foot dresser in my bedroom and is angled approximately 30 degrees from the wall. I've noticed the rope lights throw a nice halo, but one that is much brighter on the side closest to the wall. Will your product work sufficiently at this type of angle? The middle of the tv is approximately 14" from the wall.

3) Do you ever have clearance sales? :D

Thanks for your participation in this thread.

Jason,

Thanks for the kind words. It seems that most imaging science practitioners I've encountered are afflicted with various amounts of "missionary zeal." Our odd lot in life seems to be an inordinate devotion to making TVs produce better pictures.

1) I think I understand the difference between the color temperature and the intensity of the light, but to clarify, with your mechanical iris, will I be able to adjust the "brightness" of the light so that I don't feel like I'm in a well-lit "day-light" filled room?

Color temperature refers to the color of white light (6500K). Intensity is the brightness of the illumination. The black film in our product's mechanical baffle (iris, as you call it) wraps around 2/3 of the lamp (bulb). This baffle tube assembly can then be rotated 360 degrees around the lamp. Our method allows for significant control of both the amount of illumination put out by the product but also helps direct or aim the light somewhat. The objective in dimming the light is to reduce the illumination reflected by the wall behind the TV to less than 10% of the brightest white on the screen. More detail on this issue is featured on our web site.

2) My 37" Sceptre LCD is sitting on top of a 5 foot dresser in my bedroom and is angled approximately 30 degrees from the wall. I've noticed the rope lights throw a nice halo, but one that is much brighter on the side closest to the wall. Will your product work sufficiently at this type of angle?

Yes. It is even possible to remove the baffle tube from around the lamp, reach into the ends of the tube with a finger on each end, then twist the black film a little, so that it is no longer straight in the tube. This slightly spiralled orientation of the film will allow you to produce a gradual fade of the illumination on the wall, from right to left or left to right. That will compensate for the angled position of the TV in relation to the wall behind.

It's not critical that the illumination be evenly distributed on the wall behind the TV. You should still keep the brightness of any one point on the wall to less than 10% of screen peak white. An even halo just looks better aesthetically to most people.

3) Do you ever have clearance sales?

Yes. Our 240V overseas version of an older Ideal-Lume Standard model has had its price reduced almost by half. Our current 120V versions of the Standard and Panelight models cost significanly less than the models they replaced last Fall.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The objective in dimming the light is to reduce the illumination reflected by the wall behind the TV to less than 10% of the brightest white on the screen.

Understood. But for us amatuers who do not have a light meter is there a simple way to determine this ratio other than to adjust to what is aesthetically pleasing?

Haven't you been to my web site and read about bias lighting? Don't you have a copy of any of the home theater setup DVDs? Every one of the most popular DVDs (Avia Guide to Home Theater, Avia Pro, Video Essentials, Digital Video Essentials, Digital Video Essentials Professional, Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-Up) includes a test pattern for setting backlight/ambient light level. If you have a DVD player and can get your hands on one of these DVDs, you have what it takes to set the correct level for bias lighting.

This is a great example again of the need to unceasingly promote the science of imaging and display standards. Joe Kane started the ball rolling in 1988 with the production of 'A Video Standard' on laserdisc. Since then many people have learned what accurate imaging is about and been given the tools to enjoy better pictures from their TV. TV manufacturers have been grossly delinquent over the decades in helping consumers understand even the most basic rules for using their products correctly. The knowledge is easily available now that the Imaging Science Foundation and their ilk have expanded on the pioneering work done by SMPTE and Joe Kane Productions. Here are some links to web sites you should study:

www.videoessentials.com
www.imagingscience.co
www.displaymate.com
www.cinemaquestinc.com

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

...TV manufacturers have been grossly delinquent over the decades in helping consumers understand even the most basic rules for using their products correctly...

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
Talk about an under-statement! You'd think they would address this in every set's manual, given the proliferation of multi-thousand dollar sets these days. Yet they're silent. Many consumers are smart enough to understand, if they're told. But I suspect the percentage that do know is very, very small.

In defense of TV manufacturers, though, it might be opening can of worms for them to discuss this, given that CinemaQuest is one of the few companies (if not the only company) providing accurate lighting equipment to consumers. The manufacturers would probably hear from customers, complaining that they can't fully enjoy their sets because they can't find good backlighting, were it to be mentioned in the manufacturer's literature. Maybe the manufacturers see it as a Catch-22 and are simply taking the route of least resistance.

Luckily, I did learn and my IL is doing a wonderful job with my SXRD. When we spend thousands on a new TV, it just doesn't make sense to either have no backlighting or to save $20 (off the cost of an Ideal Lume) on a setup that isn't the correct temperature. Off-color, christmas-tree-like, and disco lights will never see the inside of my home theatre.

After all, it's not about the equipment or the setup, but about enjoying the material being shown. For my money, the Ideal Lume Standard simply allows my TV's quality to be seen. From that perspective, it could have cost several times as much and would have still been a worthwhile purchase.

Many consumers are smart enough to understand, if they're told. But I suspect the percentage that do know is very, very small.

You're right, up to a point. It's likely that the masses just don't care that much about better pictures. I still think it would be a public relations benefit for manufacturers to add an appendix or two in the back of their manuals. They could explain better how to adjust the picture controls and use correct terminology. This could be handled from a positive point of view. Every TV has its limitations but the object is to get the best image that particular piece of equipment is capable of.

The ISF has been saying for years, "Televisions are not plug&play. Never have been and probably never will be." The viewing environment must be compensated for, by adjusting the picture parameters. TVs will always look better in a dark viewing environment. Darkened room viewing conditions will induce eyestrain in most people on most free-standing TVs. Bias lighting helps with that, but must be 6500K at 10% of peak white to really enhance viewing. Some TVs offer automated viewing environment adjustments but they are usually not well executed.

There is a real problem with this thread -- it has become so long -- and on the very first page, readers get misdirected to pursue those rope light systems. This thread really needs its on forum folder, with correct plasma bias lighting recommendations and a FAQ on that first page.

New plasma owners who don't take the time to read deep into this thread are getting started with the wrong information...

Ideal-Lume Standard
Item Price:$

gmwedding,
I have been waiting for these to become affortable. Q?- how do you turn these on and off? THere is a plug in behind my plasma, but it's very tights when the wall mount is pusch up againts the wall. how to do it.
db

There is a real problem with this thread -- it has become so long -- and on the very first page, readers get misdirected to pursue those rope light systems. This thread really needs its on forum folder, with correct plasma bias lighting recommendations and a FAQ on that first page.

New plasma owners who don't take the time to read deep into this thread are getting started with the wrong information...

Thats a really good idea, I am a new plasma owner... and I am falling right into the "trap" you are describing. I would like to learn more, and would really appreciate a FAQ.

Well I am having more difficulty getting better pics but here is my lighting on my 658U panny.

At first I thought I would need it on the sides due to size of the plasma but I think it works. Now if I could just figure out how to take great pics without getting screen door effect.

here is a few more

one more

DAB,

I have been waiting for these to become affortable. Q?- how do you turn these on and off? THere is a plug in behind my plasma, but it's very tights when the wall mount is pusch up againts the wall. how to do it.

Our new T5 fixture models (Standard & Panelight) are substantially cheaper than the previous associated models. They have a low-profile, side-mounted, toggle switch on each fixture. We also offer a variety of remotely controlled on/off switches on our web site. There are so many different types of wall mounts and unique characteristics to people's installations it's hard to specify what will work for any given application. You will just have to study the product information on our web site and adapt what is available to your specific installation.

bvader,

I would like to learn more, and would really appreciate a FAQ.

The most concise explanation of bias lighting technology and solutions can be found on our web site. Other than that, this thread offers a lot of expanded insight that addresses various questions. I don't know of any other source that treats the subject with more detail. Since I don't work for AVS forum, it would require someone with the forum to edit this thread, to boil it down to its more essential elements.

I have wanted to compose a thorough document of some kind for this topic for quite a while. However, I just haven't had the time to give it the extended focus that would be required. My time is demanded in many different pursuits relating to my company's various activities. The best I have been able to do thus far is respond to specific questions when they come up. I still have to attend to custom home theater design and installation, continual research and development, marketing, ISF calibrations, multi-channel audio system calibrations, consulting, etc. My company is quite small and there is no one currently whom I can delegate the work load to.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
www.cinemaquestinc.com

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks G. Alan and group.
A Q?
Using a 50” wall mount plasma here
IF we used your two Bias light product. And we mounted it vertical –R/L sides. Would there be enough defused light to cover the completely back area of a plasma or would we have a noticeable gap –shadows-dark area- on the top/bottom. What placing is preferred? L/R or Top Bottem. I see you also recommend using a four light system for larger plasmas, which then gets a little pricey.
2. Q?, {I haven’t seen this system on a plasma} if you look at the lighting system from the side of the plasma. How much light can you see? What does it look like? The reason for the Q? Is that as I walk into my living room I pass by the side of the plasma and the backside can be seen from another room. I want to keep the aesthetics somewhat neutral.

IF we used your two Bias light product. And we mounted it vertical –R/L sides. Would there be enough defused light to cover the completely back area of a plasma or would we have a noticeable gap –shadows-dark area- on the top/bottom.

It depends on how the mount is constructed. Many variables impact the manner in which light is allowed to spread out from the lamps. How you orient the fixture will determine light spread as well.

What placing is preferred? L/R or Top Bottem.

That's your decision.

if you look at the lighting system from the side of the plasma. How much light can you see? What does it look like?

It depends upon how you attach the fixture to the back of the TV or on the mount. Another factor is how you adjust the rotating mechnical baffle. Every installation is different. It's impossible for me to offer very concrete recommendations without being in the room and seeing your installation first hand. Most applications require some experimentation to get the best effect.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George,
Here's another one you probably can't answer without looking at my setup by I will ask anyway. :D

I got one of your new 2 light plasma products a few months ago and just got around to installing it last week. I still need to play with the mechanical baffle some more to optimize it.

Currently I have it attached to the wall behind my wall mounted Sharp 45" LCD on the right and left side of the panel (installed perpendicular to the floor and ceiling). With my mount, my only option in this setup is to have the light about 1 - 2 inches from the right and left edges of my display. So if you are looking at it from an extreme angle the light is pretty bright.

Would I perhaps get better results if I mounted the lights horizontally to the top and bottom of the panel? I think I would be able to get them more behind the display this way. I have them attached to the wall with double stick tape and would prefer not to have to remove them if possible.

thanks,
Murray

I have a OmniUCL-X. But now after looking at it. Itmight be better to mount the lights on the wall i n have 4.5 " clearence.{any issues here?) This way i can move the mount in/out and not be concerned about hittting the lights.





It depends on how the mount is constructed. Many variables impact the manner in which light is allowed to spread out from the lamps. How you orient the fixture will determine light spread as well.



That's your decision.



It depends upon how you attach the fixture to the back of the TV or on the mount. Another factor is how you adjust the rotating mechnical baffle. Every installation is different. It's impossible for me to offer very concrete recommendations without being in the room and seeing your installation first hand. Most applications require some experimentation to get the best effect.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

does the backlight actually have an affect on the length of the tv light?

Hey folks.
Just purchased the Ideal-Lume Panelight.
I have a th-50phd8uk with a flush mount which only puts the monitor about 5/8ths inch from the wall.
I am assuming that the bias light being like 1 3/4 inches tall I can fit the sucker in the angled space on top and under the inputs on the bottom.
Anyone have any experience with this and any insight?
Here is a link to the dimensions specs.
Check out page 9
http://www.dtvcity.com/pdf/panasonic_8uk.pdf

Shaun

MurrayW, DAB and Merks87,

I responded to your posts earlier but somehow it's been deleted. I'll not have time to attempt to answer your questions until later this evening. Does anyone know how or why this would happen? Nothing I said could have been construed as rude or offensive. :confused:

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

MurrayW, DAB and Merks87,

I responded to your posts earlier but somehow it's been deleted. I'll not have time to attempt to answer your questions until later this evening. Does anyone know how or why this would happen? Nothing I said could have been construed as rude or offensive. :confused:

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
GeorgeAB,
I read your post earlier and was VERY offended...just kidding :D
I don't know why it would have disappeared.

Merks87,

does the backlight actually have an affect on the length of the tv light?

Please re-phrase your question. It don't understand your point.

Shaun,

I have a th-50phd8uk with a flush mount which only puts the monitor about 5/8ths inch from the wall.

There are many features and options being used with TVs today that can limit or interfere with optimum viewing of the images they produce. It's difficult for equipment designers to anticipate or accommodate every possible installation requirement. You may need to shim out your TV or the mount from the wall to allow for effective bias lighting. Flush or recessed mounting of televisions often prevents the use of such a product. It's not uncommon that conflicting installation design priorities can diminish actual viewing and image quality.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I'm in the market for my first plasma and after seeing some of the gallery photos here I'm really interested in adding bias lighting to my setup. I will be getting the Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK, which will hang on a Peerless articulating wall mount.

The way my room is situated, the area where my tv will live is in a recessed area between my fireplace and the corner. Due to my furniture being on an angle in the middle of the room, currently my old school television is sitting catty cornered in that recessed are on top of a stand. The recessed area itself is plenty wide to accomodate the new Panny hanging flat in the center of it, and it's the same depth from floor to ceiling. So the problem I will have is in viewing the screen at an angle from the couch.

This is where the articuating wall mount comes in. My plan is to mount the uhh mount close enough to the corner of the recessed area so that I can "dock" the screen flat against the wall in the center while not in use, but then I can swing it into the corner for viewing.

And here's where my question comes in. If I install bias lighting on the back of the plasma, will I get a satisfactory effect when the screen is rotated into the corner?

Thanks in advance!

Mike

If I install bias lighting on the back of the plasma, will I get a satisfactory effect when the screen is rotated into the corner?

The answer is, yes. Keep the objective in mind: providing supplementary, color correct, low brightness illumination on the wall(s) behind the screen. Your TV will be different distances from the wall surfaces behind it. Mounting our Ideal-Lume Panelight product on the back of the panel allows independent dimming of each of the two (or more if you choose) lights. This would regulate the illumination to provide even reflection on wall surfaces that will likely be different distances from the backlights. You are welcomed to call my office if you need more guidance.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks. I'll probably give you a call when the time comes for the backlight(s).

I use an IR-543 (IR to X10 converter) and a Smarthome appliance module to turn my Ideallume bias light on/off via remote. Works great. Couldn't be happier.

I'm really a noob to all of this, especially "IR to X10 converters" and the like. Can anyone explain how these work and how they're hooked up/used? I'm sure it is pretty simple but if anyone can give me a crash course before I dive into this, it would be greatly appreciated!!!

Also, a question for George....

I know you have kind of danced around the subject when people have asked "which set up is better for me" but maybe you can shed a little light (no pun intended) on my situation.

I have a 42" Panny, table mounted and it is about 10" or so (give or take) from the wall. I know you've mentioned for larger screens to possiably use 2 Panelight kits. I wouldn't particularly call a 42" screen "large". What would be the drastic differences between a Standard mounted in the center as opposed to the Panelights mounted on top/bottom? I like the more "halo" effect, so would 2 sets of Panelights be overkill on a 42"?

Thanks for all the advice on here so far. Just found this thread and read all 13 pages and have changed my mind about 15 different times on what to use. I think I've came to the conclusion to use the Ideal Lume set up....just not sure what route to go now.

I'm using a standard behind my 50" Sony SXRD and I wouldn't want more light. In fact, I've got the filter blocking about 75% of the light's output. It "halo's" just fine by itself, IMO, YMMV.

Just bumping this up....I know I'm a lil impatient....sorry sorry. :confused:

Since your TV is that far from the wall, the Ideal-Lume Standard model should work fine. The dual fixture Panelight model is for wall-mounted flat TVs, where there is no room for the light to spread out behind the set.

I know you have kind of danced around the subject when people have asked "which set up is better for me"

I'm not dancing. If I can't give a solid recommendation, I don't like to speculate. Speculation, conjecture, guessing, idle wondering, daydreaming and wishfull thinking may be popular methods of resolving problems for some people. I consider it a waste of time. It's often too difficult to predict how backlighting will appear in some installations without seeing the setup first hand. Even when that's available, it may require a little experimentation to get the best result.

I have to rely on the owner of the system to judge what he needs, based upon the fundamental principles of the technique and the characteristics of the different models we offer. It's available to help someone in certain cases if I know enough specifics about their setup, but other cases are just too difficult without seeing the system.

Bias lighting is a rather simple technique. Implementing it properly can get complicated, due to the wide variety of displays and installations available these days.

Best regards and beautiful pictues,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thank you George.

That comment wasn't ment to sound so "harsh" and didn't intend for any ill feelings to come across, because there are none, but thanks for the explanation. I know from reading the previous posts that the info you give out is pretty accurate and thourough so I can see why you hesitate on giving out any specifics with out knowing all the details.

You should be seeing an order from me very very soon! Thanks again!

Now....anyone wanna fill me in (even a link somewhere) to how all the IR stuff works?

I am sorry to see that the shipping is almost as expensive as the producte{single lamp}.
I guess i'll keep my rope light a little longer. But we do enjoy the backlighting on the plasma.
db

We tried to skimp on shipping materials and just got broken bulbs.

explorher64,

I didn't think you were being harsh. The term "danced" was a poor choice of words. It usually implies being evasive and/or dishonest. That's why I elaborated again on my reluctance to be more specific at times. You will have noticed throughout this thread that I am certainly willing to devote the time to supply abundant specifics when I can.

Now....anyone wanna fill me in (even a link somewhere) to how all the IR stuff works?

If you call my office I can probably help you with this. It would be too time consuming for me to correspond on this issue in writing. I will need to ask you questions about your setup for this topic as well. If I'm not in, just ask for my cell phone or leave your number and I'll call you back.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Wow, talk about quickness. Ordered the light this morning and immediatly recieved an order notice and invoice and by early afternoon received a shipping notice. Should be here no later than Friday!!!

I'll be sure to post back once everything is set up and working!! Hope that I am as impressed as all the other testimonials. This is something that I really had no clue about and just stumbled across on here and it piqued my interest. Really looking forward to this "new experience"!!!

I realize this thread is for Plasma and LCD owners, but I wanted to chime in to say how well the Ideal-Lume standard is working for a Samsung DLP owner. I received my Sammy 50" 1080p set the same day that the Ideal-Lume arrived and after assembling my stand, re-wiring all of my components, and getting the Sammy in place, I slipped in LOTR in my new Sony upconversion DVD player and immersed myself in video/audio bliss. About 20-30 minutes later I realized my eyes were hurting and I was getting a headache (which had never happened in years of tv watching). Then I realized that in my haste I had forgotten to unpack and set up my Ideal-Lume. I quickly set it up on the back of my tv stand (which sits out from the wall one foot). Within 10 minutes my eyes were back to normal and my headache was gone!! This was indeed a very good investment ($55 with shipping) and I'm thankful for the guy (on one of the Samsung threads) who pointed me to this thread on bias lighting.

Can I buy an ideal lume in Canada? Or is there a store that ships to Canada? Also the colour of the wall behind my plasma is blue. Should I repaint it white, black, etc., or will blue be OK. Thanks

We don't currently have anyone carrying our products in Canada. Canadians regularly order from our web site. Ideally, the color of the wall behind the TV should be neutral to preserve accurate color perception. Technically, neutral is anything along the gray scale, from white to dark gray. Neutral reflects all colors of light equally. A neutral wall will also preserve the spectral accuracy of the 6500K bias light it will be reflecting back into the room. Your TV will look better when not using the bias light as well.

The critical issue is the area that will be within your field of view while watching the TV. Other walls in the room can be colored. SMPTE recommends using Munsell "nearly neutrals" on the other room surfaces if you want a break from neutral. Those colors are soft pastells and can be any shade or "value" from light to dark. Dominant vivid colors should be avoided in a reference color television viewing environment.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I'm using a standard behind my 50" Sony SXRD and I wouldn't want more light. In fact, I've got the filter blocking about 75% of the light's output. It "halo's" just fine by itself, IMO, YMMV.


Codeman-

How many lights are you using and how do you have your light (s) set up. I currently have a Sony 60' SXRD which sits on a T.V stand. By your observation would one standard light fixture give me the 'halo' affect?

I would appreciate any information you could provide me.

Thanks.

Do bias light last longer than the bulbs in the SXRD? If they do maybe Sony should use them instead.

George, great product, terrible website. I think a little web design could be directly related to increased sales.

I have to agree with the last post. I am a repeat customer (just ordered the panel light from you yesterday so I feel I have some basis for making this statement) and I have to say that I was frustrated more than once by the website. You can always PM or email me if you would like some observations/suggestions.

Well I am having more difficulty getting better pics but here is my lighting on my 658U panny.

At first I thought I would need it on the sides due to size of the plasma but I think it works. Now if I could just figure out how to take great pics without getting screen door effect.


Looks great. It's hard for me to tell what the color of your wall is though. Any pics of your setup in daylight conditions?

agogley,

We are in the process of totally reorganizing our web presence. This may include a new host. My new office assistant has a lot of skills in this area. He is out for a week from some surgery, then we'll be back at it. Any tips, observations, suggestions, complaints, etc., will be greatly appreciated. Please send to the company e-mail, not this forum. Oddly, I have received as many compliments as complaints over the years about our site.

We don't intend to please everyone. If God can't, who am I to fret over it? OK, don't bother commenting about God having a web site.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Received my Ideal-Lume the other day and I'm still toying with it to find the best possible mounting location. I have the same problem that a few of the previous posters mentioned, glare from silver Panny stand, and I'm trying to find a solution. Any suggestions?

Another question that has not been addressed, does anyone know if mounting the panel light to the back of the plasma via velcro strips would void the manufacturers warranty?

BTW, great product George and thanks for answering my questions. Great customer service.

Another question that has not been addressed, does anyone know if mounting the panel light to the back of the plasma via velcro strips would void the manufacturers warranty?


Gosh I hope not. That is how mine is mounted. I don't know what else you could use for a free standing panny plasma.

George:

I'll try to get you those suggestions on the website in the next few days. I got my new ideal-lime panel light. WOW, huge improvement over the last version I purchased. I love the rotating filter and the decreased size. The ability to mount them on the wall now is great too. I did manage to break the plastic piece that goes over the light but I read in the instructions that you don't have to use it. I'd love to replace my older ideal lume with the new one...I don't suppose you have a trade in option. :p

I didn't read through this whole thread, but as I understand it bias lighting is more of an application for PDP. My question is has this been tried on an LCD? Will it help with any type of FPD?

Bias lighting enhances picture quality and viewing comfort with any self-contained video display that's viewed in the dark, including computer monitors. The underlying principles are fundamentals of imaging science, display standards and human perceptual characteristics. Imaging standards organizations, such as NIST, SMPTE and ISO recommend the practice for reference viewing environments. The practice is a required element in THX certification programs.

The technique has been widely used on the professional side of the imaging industry for decades. Benefits of 6500K display backlighting are gradually getting attention in consumer circles. I am continually baffled by the frequent resistance to the idea among even the ranks of supposed videophiles. Philips Electronics is unique among display manufacturers by building the feature into some of their models, although somewhat clumsily.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

This is going to sound really lazy but I just installed a CinemaQuest Ideal-Lume bias light on the back of the plasma and I'm wondering if it can turned on or off via my Harmony 880 remote? If so, how to do I set this up? I would like for the bias lighting to come on when I choose "Watch HDTV" or "Movies" on my "Activities" buttons.

This is going to sound really lazy but I just installed a CinemaQuest Ideal-Lume bias light on the back of the plasma and I'm wondering if it can turned on or off via my Harmony 880 remote? If so, how to do I set this up? I would like for the bias lighting to come on when I choose "Watch HDTV" or "Movies" on my "Activities" buttons.Search this thread for X10 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=9711804) and you will find a few posts about remotely controlling the bias lighting.

Regarding George's website, I think it's fine. Yeah, it could use some sprucing up, and he realizes it, but I just ordered the Ideal Lume & a copy of DVE with no hiccups at all, safe and sound. And, within 1 hour I received my UPS tracking info and notification of shipment.

They're on top of it!

I'll be sure to post my findings with bias lighting and how it looks with my xbr970 (a 34" CRT). I've noticed that on this board that most people are lighting much larger sets, and after reading 14 pages straight, I'm eager to find out how a smaller set fares with the Ideal Lume.

And lastly - I echo the comment made that this thread should be reorganized because the first few pages focus strongly on the rope-lights, which after reading all 14 pages and doing some homework on George's website and others, I think it is safe to assume that if you are going to make the leap and spend money on bias lighting, that saving $20 by creating your own DIY kit, is not to your advantage. Think about it: why not save yourself the hassle, the trip to Home Depot, and spend the extra $20 and get the proper bulb shipped safe and snug to your home? You spent how much on that TV of yours? Why not light it correctly?

Thanks to GeorgeAB and the rest of the gang for the education!

I'm eager to find out how a smaller set fares with the Ideal Lume.

Smaller monitors actually need bias lighting the most. "Smaller" really should be understood as any monitor that occupies a smaller portion of the observer's field of view. If you sit far enough away from a 65" screen, it can occupy the same portion of your field of view as a 15" desk top computer monitor.

One of the reasons movie theaters don't use backlighting is the size of image provided. The other reason is the comparatively dim image (8 to 12 ftL). A small, bright, TV or computer image, in a dark viewing environment, needs bias lighting to prevent viewing fatigue and eyestrain.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George,

I'm going to be purchasing a 50" plasma in the near future and am interested in Ideal Lume bias lighting. I am certain I would have to get a panellight, as I am wall mounting the screen, but I will be mounting it with the bottom basically resting on my mantle. (I'm in an apartment and have no other options). Therefore, a top/bottom mounting wouldn't really work. Should I go with a left/right lighting? Or would 3 be necessary? left/top/right?

Should I go with a left/right lighting? Or would 3 be necessary? left/top/right?

Left/right mounting works fine. Two fixtures should be sufficient for the benefits intended. You can always order a third later if you determine that it would look more appealing to more evenly fill in all around the panel. Two may do that if they can be located closer in towards the mount, rather than out near the outer edges of the panel perimeter.

Just installed my Ideal-Lume Standard. Installed it behind my floor-standing 50 inch projection set. I have been looking for good ways to handle eye strain and had heard about back-lighting. Began looking on the net about 2 weeks ago, came across this forum in my search, also found this CNET link (AND VIDEO)

ah, cant post url as I am a new member.... Google "backlight" and look at the CNET review.

Which led me to Cinemaquest's web page.
I was very pleased with the rapid response notification of sale, and a day and a HALF shipping time! Thanks George!
The unit is lightweight, simple to ajust. It is a great addition to the theatre I now have in my home.

I have watched 2 movies now with the Ideal-lume operating (BTW I use and recommend the wireless, RF, x10...awesome and slick), and realize I can indeed turn down my contrast and brightness.

I DO have a question about wall color, however. Our walls in our new home are an off-white (added grey/beige tinting). I would like to paint the back wall. I have re-read this thread over the past 2 days and am a bit confised. I understand the gray scale covers white to black, But I think I read a recent post about using a charcoal grey. My wife is FINE about me using whatever color I need. Black would LOOK really cool.... but is it ideal? The section of wall directly behind this SET is about 7 feet wide. Would black be OK?

Thanks in advance!

Scott In Colorado

Anyone know where I can get a replacement bulb when I need one?

Anyone know where I can get a replacement bulb when I need one?

http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?Merchant=cinemaquestincn&DeptID=32492

Anyone know where I can get a replacement bulb when I need one?

Also:

http://www.healthlighting.com/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=34&thiscat=5&frompage=Online_Store&page_num=1&=SID
(My favorite)

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/accessories/backlighting.html

http://mmlights.com/Products.html
http://www.bulbs.com/products/product.asp?page=products&class=692
http://www.bulbbarn.com/main.aspx?prod=4485-3-27&list=t

Would black be OK?

It's a bit of a challenge to illuminate black. A medium gray would be better. The Kodak 18% gray card is probably as dark as one would want a wall to be, if it's to be backlit.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hi George, I'm in need of a replacement bulb for, I believe, the original Ideal-Lume. The bulb is marked "LUMICHROME F 15W 1XX 6500 K". Is this (http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?storename=cinemaquestincn&DeptID=32492&ItemID=674600&detail=1) the proper one?

Is this the proper one?

Yes, yours takes the only F15 bulb in the store. It's the F15 T8 Lumiram bulb.

Hi George. Would an ideal lume work well with this color, or do my walls negate its advantages? Also, do I need a plug behind my tv for your product? I was going to put in a surge protected clock outlet, but these are single outlets. If I need a plug for this, then I'll need to go back to the drawing board. Thanks.

You could try a VERY blue lamp if you plan to keep that color wall behind the TV. Yellow is opposite blue in color space. The color of the wall, when illuminated by a blue light, will appear more neutral, although it may tilt toward green a bit.

Your decor may be nice with all the lights on and occupying yourself with other activities than watching TV. As far as a video viewing environment, it's far from conducive to a reference image.

As far as how to power my products, they need house current. You could use a multi-plug splitter in your planned single outlet.

Is your product available with different color bulbs? Could I get a blue lamp from ideal-lume?

Nearly a year ago, I thought I was embarking on a simple plan to get a tv to mount on the wall. It just keeps getting more complex. If watching the crt in this room hasn't bothered us, does that mean the plasma will be all right too? Or is it a bigger problem because it's right next to the wall?

You could get the Ideal-Lume and insert various blue theatrical gel filters into the mechanical baffle tube until you get the right effect. You should have no trouble finding the filters in New York.

Most consumers are not "bothered" by poor imaging. Do you want better pictures? If so, you'll have to follow the "rules" of the video system. If life was all intuition we wouldn't need scientists, engineers, surgeons or stop signs.

Do I want better pictures? Of course. But am I willing to change my entire room to accomplish it? No, I'm not. I'm trying to find a "compromise" solution - one that gives me a great picture without changing the entire room. What if I painted a white box (the same color as the room trim) around my plasma, would that be enough to solve the problem? I was thinking of a white box (that extended 6", 9", or 12" past the edge of the plasma. Would the bias light work well for me then?

"Great" pictures usually don't allow for much compromise. Of primary concern is the wall behind the TV, not the entire room. Vivid colors that appear within your field of view while watching the TV will skew your perception of the colors on the screen. I don't think a 12" border will make that much of a difference, unless you will be sitting really close to the screen.

Have you considered retractable blinds or drapes behind the TV? Drop down cellular blinds take up very little room when they are fully raised. You could even hide them behind some wood trim at the ceiling. They come in some very large widths for covering patio doors and often can be cut to custom widths. That would leave the wall intact when not using the TV and provide benefit even during the day with high ambient lighting. You get to decide at any given opportunity to have a neutral backdrop or not.

Thanks. I'll do some investigating.

I received my bias light (the Ideal Lume) on Friday and have been playing around with it over the weekend. I used the "Ambient Light" test on the DVE disc to calibrate how much light I should allow the lamp to shed. I mounted the light on the wall directly behind my 34" Sony XBR970 and watched a variety of programming, most notably, the Season 3 finale of Deadwood last night (why did they cancel this amazing show!!?!) - The resulting picture quality when using the light is amazing.

Everything you've read on this thread is true. The colors are more vibrant. The blacks are fantastic and the eye strain is gone. I watched several scenes last night with the Ideal Lume on, then I'd watch the same scenes with the Ideal Lume off. I did this for about 1 hour and the difference between the PQ with the light on and off is substantial.

This lamp was a wise purchase. The shipping was fast, the packaging was awesome and the communication was top notch.

Worth every penny!

You could try a VERY blue lamp if you plan to keep that color wall behind the TV. Yellow is opposite blue in color space. The color of the wall, when illuminated by a blue light, will appear more neutral, although it may tilt toward green a bit.

Your decor may be nice with all the lights on and occupying yourself with other activities than watching TV. As far as a video viewing environment, it's far from conducive to a reference image.

As far as how to power my products, they need house current. You could use a multi-plug splitter in your planned single outlet.

GeorgeAB:

I have a golden tan wall (looks like a very muted gold) behind a 50" LCD RPTV. I just purchased the Ideal Lume Standard and it has been shipped. What should I do to achieve near optimum picture quality in regards to backlighting.

I don't know if it matters but my tv sits on a stand (see attachment) and the actual screen is approx. 22" from the wall.

plorell,

I don't normally recommend trying to compensate for the wrong color of wall with filters over the light. The best method is to change the color of surface behind the TV to neutral. That way the TV's picture looks better even when not using a bias light in high ambient lighting conditions.

Use of colored filters to correct for wall color is inexact at best. One reason is the shortage of color choices among filter manufacturers. The other is the need for an expensive spectroradiometer that can verify when neutrality has been achieved.

You can "ballpark" it through a basic understanding of color space, with some trial and error using filters, but I wouldn't want to field questions from anyone attempting this. I frankly don't care to devote any more time to such methods.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

plorell,

I don't normally recommend trying to compensate for the wrong color of wall with filters over the light. The best method is to change the color of surface behind the TV to neutral. That way the TV's picture looks better even when not using a bias light in high ambient lighting conditions.

Use of colored filters to correct for wall color is inexact at best. One reason is the shortage of color choices among filter manufacturers. The other is the need for an expensive spectroradiometer that can verify when neutrality has been achieved.

You can "ballpark" it through a basic understanding of color space, with some trial and error using filters, but I wouldn't want to field questions from anyone attempting this. I frankly don't care to devote any more time to such methods.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

GeorgeAB:

I'm not that advanced so buying a spectroradiometer will never happen. I'm also married so changing one wall in the room to neutral or using a blue filter are not realistic options.

Simply put: In my current "static" scenario (golden tan wall / 22 inches from wall / Ideal Lume Standard), what should I do to get the most out of the Ideal Lume after installation.

I need bias lighting because I know fatigue is becoming an issue but I also want to optimize my use of the Ideal Lume Standard in my current environment without making changes.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

General installation and application information comes with the product. If you need any further help, please contact my office.

Do I want better pictures? Of course. But am I willing to change my entire room to accomplish it? No, I'm not. I'm trying to find a "compromise" solution - one that gives me a great picture without changing the entire room. What if I painted a white box (the same color as the room trim) around my plasma, would that be enough to solve the problem? I was thinking of a white box (that extended 6", 9", or 12" past the edge of the plasma. Would the bias light work well for me then?FWIW, I have mentioned this before earlier in this thread... I have a 37" Panny plasma w/ a golden scallop design wallpaper behind it (It's a 1925 Craftsman bungalow & has old timey type wallpaper throughout). The plasma is mounted on its stand & sitting on an entertainment stand I made. The plasma is approx. 6" from back wall, & I have a Ideal-Lume cable-tied to the middle back (supplied velcro did not hold well).

The colors look really good to me, & the backlight helps greatly w/ eye fatigue for nightime viewing (I have the built-in baffle covering a great deal of the light, otherwise I feel like I could read in the room w/ just this light). The Panny plasma I own has a 2" black bezel which helps too w/ transition of the tv image against the wallpaper.

I would not let the tail wag the dog. :D Do your set-up the way you want, & experiment w/ a backlight. It definitely improves night viewing.

FWIW, I have mentioned this before earlier in this thread... I have a 37" Panny plasma w/ a golden scallop design wallpaper behind it (It's a 1925 Craftsman bungalow & has old timey type wallpaper throughout). The plasma is mounted on its stand & sitting on an entertainment stand I made. The plasma is approx. 6" from back wall, & I have a Ideal-Lume cable-tied to the middle back (supplied velcro did not hold well).

The colors look really good to me, & the backlight helps greatly w/ eye fatigue for nightime viewing (I have the built-in baffle covering a great deal of the light, otherwise I feel like I could read in the room w/ just this light). The Panny plasma I own has a 2" black bezel which helps too w/ transition of the tv image against the wallpaper.

I would not let the tail wag the dog. :D Do your set-up the way you want, & experiment w/ a backlight. It definitely improves night viewing.


Thanks, rhcorolla! I had given up on the idea of a back-light because of what I learned about yellow. But your comments have me considering it again. I appreciate it. I think I'll go ahead and put the plug in so I can experiment, as you suggest. It's good to hear that it makes a difference for you - with similar color issues.

Well I tried the Panelight and I couldn't get it to fit. I only have an inch or so space between my PDP and the wall and the right side and bottom of the display there are wires which made it impossible to get the Panelight in there.

Anyway, I'm going to put the rope lighting up instead. I bought the Hampton Bay 12' light.

How can I get my Harmony 659 to turn this on/off? I'm not sure what I need to make it work. The lightning doesn't have a switch and once I plug it in it's on for good........need a way to turn it off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/JG1inNJ/IMG_1264.jpg

Just wanted to thank George for making a great product at a great price. I just got my Ideal-Lume a couple of days ago, but I just wanted to say thanks for the fast shipping.

JG1, You need a Model IR 543 Command center by X-10 and a Light switcher like a LampLinc Essencial model 2000sc
http://www.smarthome.com/4040.html
http://www.smarthome.com/2000SC.html

JG1, You need a Model IR 543 Command center by X-10 and a Light switcher like a LampLinc Essencial model 2000sc
http://www.smarthome.com/4040.html
http://www.smarthome.com/2000SC.html

will this work?

Wireless Command

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100031603
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100028870

JGI, are those thinkgs sitting on the wall next to your plasma and in front of it speakers??

JGI, are those thinkgs sitting on the wall next to your plasma and in front of it speakers??

What things on the wall in front of it's speakers?

no, not in front of it's speakers, are the circular things on the wall, and that one in front of your tv, are those speakers.

will this work?

Wireless Command

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100031603
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100028870

I did some searching and it looks as though I need the IR543.

thanks!

no, not in front of it's speakers, are the circular things on the wall, and that one in front of your tv, are those speakers.

Oh, lol, yeah those are my speakers.

(just woke up, sorry)

will this work?

Wireless Command

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100031603
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100028870
I don't think those will work with your Harmony needs to be IR signal, those are probably RF.

what model are they? those are really cool!

I don't think those will work with your Harmony needs to be IR signal, those are probably RF.

Yeah you're right. I just need to figure out how I'm gonna squeeze that LampLinc behind the PDP.

what model are they? those are really cool!

thanks, check out http://www.orbaudio.com/

I just need to figure out how I'm gonna squeeze that LampLinc behind the PDP.

You should consider a split X10 receptacle behind shallow mount flat panels.

http://www.smarthome.com/prodindex.asp?catid=14

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Please excuse the powercord. I haven't taken the PDP off the wall yet to plug the cord in back there.

Although I would have liked to use the Panelight, the rope lighting was pretty much my only option because the lack of space I have between the PDP and wall.

The camera is making it look *slightly* more yellow then it is, just slightly. (I have gold walls so there no getting around it).

I like it though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/JG1inNJ/IMG_1314.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/JG1inNJ/IMG_1312.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/JG1inNJ/IMG_1313.jpg

I've read through the thread, and I'm leaning towards getting the ideal-lume standard backlight, but I have a question about the IR remote control of the backlight.

I've seen people suggest getting these two devices to control the light.
http://www.smarthome.com/4040.HTML (X-10 control module)
http://www.smarthome.com/2002shl.html (X-10 switch)

But this seems pretty darn complicated. All I need is a simple cord that goes from my surge-protector to a infra-red controlled switch to the light.

Is there a product out there that isn't as expensive as the one listed on CinemaQuest website?

Hey look what I found in my closet.

Would I be able to use this, or still I still need the X10 Command center?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/JG1inNJ/IMG_1316.jpg

Hey look what I found in my closet.

Would I be able to use this, or still I still need the X10 Command center?

Do you remember where you got that kit from? I think that is all you'll need.

Do you remember where you got that kit from? I think that is all you'll need.
I think you would still need the IR command module if that which is in the picture is RF

Hey look what I found in my closet.

Would I be able to use this, or still I still need the X10 Command center?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/JG1inNJ/IMG_1316.jpg
That will work...that's exactly what I am using now. Actually, I haven't gotten around to installing the serial RF controller thingy (the black item in the picture) to my computer yet, I am just using the remote that you have pictured to turn my bias lighting on and off.

That will work...that's exactly what I am using now. Actually, I haven't gotten around to installing the serial RF controller thingy (the black item in the picture) to my computer yet, I am just using the remote that you have pictured to turn my bias lighting on and off.


I can program my Harmony from this X10 remote that I have?

Do you remember where you got that kit from? I think that is all you'll need.

Yeah, I got it a while ago from www.X10.com . They were giving them away for free so I put my addy down and they sent it to me. I had it stuffed in a box for like 2 years.

I think you would still need the IR command module if that which is in the picture is RF

Yeah I don't know. The instructions say nothing about it being IR.

Edit:

It's RF http://www.x10.com/automation/hr12a_s.html

It looks like I still need the command center.

I can program my Harmony from this X10 remote that I have?
Can your Harmony learn and send RF? If it can then you should be in luck.

In the past (and sometime in the future I will get back to this) I was using the serial thingy hooked up to my computer which had a USB-UIRT that received IR commands and sent out the appropriate RF commands using girder. I also was able to do this using MainLobby instead of girder. I rebuilt that computer and haven't gotten around to adding the X-10 control capability back to it.

Good luck,

Murray

Can your Harmony learn and send RF? If it can then you should be in luck.



Not 100% sure, but I don't think so.

I ended up ordering the IR Command Center.

Not 100% sure, but I don't think so.

I ended up ordering the IR Command Center.
You can actually control x10 devices with their own Universal 5 in 1 Learning Remote: http://www.x10.com/automation/ur74a_s.html Just don't buy it from their website directly. I got mine on ebay for $10. The remote is built pretty solid and it doesn't look too bad.

You can actually control x10 devices with their own Universal 5 in 1 Learning Remote: http://www.x10.com/automation/ur74a_s.html Just don't buy it from their website directly. I got mine on ebay for $10. The remote is built pretty solid and it doesn't look too bad.

Yeah I saw that, but I already have my Harmony working my whole system.

Got the IR Command Center today and it works great. I programmed my Harmony remote and it's perfect, I'm able to turn the lighting on/off with a touch of the remote and also dim/brighten the lighting which is a great feature.

I have a 73" Mitsubishi RPTV (73713). Would one ideal-lume be sufficient behind the set or should I need to have two ideal-lume unit to have a good effect of bias lighting?

Thanks,
Alan

discs4sale,

If your wall is white, one Standard should be enough. Otherwise, you can go with the Panelight, which has two lights in it but is less expensive than two Standards. Another option would be to upgrade to the Pro. It's the ultimate in accuracy and puts out more light than a Standard model. We don't recommend the Pro unless the wall behind the display is truly neutral.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks for the advice George. I don't know why I didn't think about getting bias lighting sooner although I've heard about it for awhile. I though it would be complicated to install but I saw some pictures of an installation that some put up on the Flickr photo website and it looked straightforward and can be easily removed if necessary.

We don't consider the installation process complicated, but it may be for the average non-videophile consumer. The key is to dim the light to match the TV's brightest light output when set for dark viewing. This requires a spot light meter or displaying a test pattern on the TV from one of the popular home theater setup DVDs. The glow on the wall from the backlight should be less than 10% of peak white on the screen. Your TV should have the brightness and contrast adjusted for dark room conditions. The only light in the room should be from the TV itself and the backlight.

Most consumers have no clue how to properly adjust a TV for viewing in the dark. Joe Kane Productions' home theater setup discs have made the whole subject of imaging science known to consumers. Others have followed suit with similar DVDs that tutor consumers on how to properly adjust their TVs. Most people think they can get the best picture from their TV by intuition. That has never been true. Most TV manufacturers have not wanted to correctly educate their customers properly on how to use what they've purchased.

I see that you guys are based in Colorado, any way to purchase locally? I live in Brighton.

If your wall is white, one Standard should be enough. Otherwise, you can go with the Panelight, which has two lights in it but is less expensive than two Standards. Another option would be to upgrade to the Pro. It's the ultimate in accuracy and puts out more light than a Standard model. We don't recommend the Pro unless the wall behind the display is truly neutral.How do you adjust if your wall is highly colored?

Kal

Big Worms,

So far, none of my Colorado dealers are retailers. We don't do walk-in retail sales either, since we don't have a store front operation. With gas prices what they are, and the time it would take for you to drive, you should just order online and have it shipped to you.

Kal Rubinson,

How to deal with a "highly colored" wall is discussed in a variety of ways throughout this thread. We all have to decide what compromises are acceptable in our video viewing environments. Once you understand the fundamentals of proper viewing environment conditions, you will be the best one to determine what can be done to improve your situation. I would rather discuss variables over the phone than in this thread. You may call my office for help. The process is just too tedious to manage in this format.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George,

My wall is white. Would a panellight be better than one standard for a RPTV my size (73") for bias lighting. I don't mind spending a little bit more if it will give me a better effect. Thanks!

Alan

George
Similar question to the one above. I'm interested in backlighting my Pio 6071 which is 58" x 38". I'd prefer a halo around the top and 2 sides, and my back wall is essentially a flat white. Would 2 panel light sets with 1 fixture on each side and 2 across the top be overkill, or should just 1 across the top be sufficient. Thanks Ed

kpblade,

One across the top may work if there is a significant amount of distance between the lamp and the top edge of the TV. Much depends upon the wall mount design. If there is not a lot of distance, two fixtures would likely look better on the wall.

We're talking aesthetics here, simply having any glow on the wall will provide most of the benefits of the technique. An even halo has a better appearance, but the object of focus will primarily be the screen, not the wall. This technique usually requires some trial and error to get it to work best in a given installation.

By the way, I go by my middle name. George is my first name. All my friends know me by Alan. We're friendly here, right? :D

discs4sale,

There are too many variables possible in a given setup to give absolute recommendations. You will have to decide what might work best for your situation based upon the product descriptions, your budget and your best understanding of the principles involved. If I could be in your room, it would be better, especially if you had wine or beer. :) It's just difficult long distance to say anything conclusive.

George (Alan),

I have a 42" LCD on a stand and the tv is about 14" to 16" from the wall which is a light cream/faint yellow sort of color. If I were to go with an Ideal-Lume Standard, would that be sufficient in size for the tv mentioned above? The Ideal-Lume Panel Light mentions wall mounted panel tvs which mine is not. Any thoughts? I suppose the best thing to do with mounting is to just experiment until I get an even glow around the tv? Thanks!


I'll try to post a pic later of my setup.

George (Alan),

I have a 42" LCD on a stand and the tv is about 14" to 16" from the wall which is a light cream/faint yellow sort of color. If I were to go with an Ideal-Lume Standard, would that be sufficient in size for the tv mentioned above? The Ideal-Lume Panel Light mentions wall mounted panel tvs which mine is not. Any thoughts? I suppose the best thing to do with mounting is to just experiment until I get an even glow around the tv? Thanks!


I'll try to post a pic later of my setup.

I have a plasma set just about like your LCD, I bought an undercounter light from Wal Mart and replaced the bulb in it with a GE Sunshine bulb, this I have at the base of the plasma
aiming up toward the ceiling , works good for me. That bulb is rated at 5000K and CRI of 90. If you get a Ideal Lume it will be rated at 6500K, which is the prefered rating.

Naylia,

The standard model will be sufficient, since your TV is not wall-mounted. Most installations require some experimentation to get the best effect with the placement and orientation of the light and its dimming baffle.

dirtydan,

We likely have better bulbs for your fixture. Our online store will continue to stock bulbs for our older models, people wanting to build their own or who have a fluorescent fixture already.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Yep, I noticed that you have the better bulb that would fit my undercounter fixture, I am thinking about ordering one or two of them.

Hey George, Question, I have my backlight programmed into my Harmony 880 remote using an X-10 rf converting module, with this set-up I can dim and brighten the backlight, is this a no no? Also I see a small flicker from the GE Sunshine bulb when it is turned off by the X-10.

dirtydan,

Standard dimmers for incandescent lamps cause fluorescents to flicker. Fluorescents require special dimming ballasts and compatible dimmers. Both are very expensive. You should use an X10 appliance module to switch your fluorescent on and off. Use another method to reduce your bias light's output.

A bias light should only be used when viewing a TV in a dark room. It's level is determined by the TV adjustments (less than 10% of the TV's adjusted peak white), and would never need a continuously adjustable dimmer at any time other than the first time it is set up.

If you want the lights to dim down in the room prior to watching TV, put dimming controls on the other lighting in the room. As they dim down to off, the bias light can be switched on for TV viewing. As the room lighting ramps back up after using the TV, the bias light can be switched off.

Ok, Thanks for the info.

I have a 65" DLP that is against a wall where the side of the TV is in view when one enters the room.
I want a form of bias lighting that will provide a consistant glow from 2 sides and top with no 'spotlight' type effect at any one spot. Also, I didn't want a bright light visable from the side.
What would be the best choice for me?
Thanks

cbm2006,

I would have to be in the room to really see your setup. Perhaps complete multi-angle photos could suffice. You are asking a lot. It doesn't sound like the solution will be simple, or perhaps even practical. You want illumination on the wall to the side but don't want to see the source of the light when standing on that same side.

Why can't you wait to turn on the backlighting until after you enter the room? Do you have a crazy uncle who has to sit in a chair off to the side while you watch TV? Can you provide more detail?

The best way to avoid the "spotlight" effect you mention is to increase the distance between the light source and the wall. This can be helped by placing a single fluorescent on the floor, or as low as possible, behind the TV. In this case the TV can't be shoved smack against the wall, but spaced away from the wall some.

Rope lighting can provide a continuous encircling effect but the color is usually far from correct. You may have to settle for some compromise.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I just ordered the standard lighting kit from Cinemaquest yesterday. I will be sure to post pics once I have received and set everything up.

is one ideal lume standard enough to light up all 4 sides of a 30" crt? good example of what i'm talking about is post #443 in this thread. how long do the bulbs usually last? since my setup is at an angle (i'm guessing 120 degree) to the wall do i need to buy anything else?

http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture004mr2.jpg

delpis,

One Ideal-Lume Standard is usually sufficient for a TV as large as a 65" RPTV, if the wall is a lighter color, such as your photo depicts. You shouldn't need anything else. As our web site states, the life of the fluorescent tube is rated for 10,000 hours, but the industry standard for optimum color performance would be to replace it at about its half-life.

George,

I have a 37" Sharp Aquos and would like to pick up one of your lighting kits. It is not wall mounted and sits about 4-5" away from the wall. As you can see the wall color is a semi-gloss sage type color. What do would suggest? Thanks.

-Mike

I have a 37" Sharp Aquos and would like to pick up one of your lighting kits. It is not wall mounted and sits about 4-5" away from the wall. As you can see the wall color is a semi-gloss sage type color. What do would suggest?

The Standard model will be most suitable. Ideally you could provide a flat gray backdrop for critical viewing sessions. Hanging a 4' x 4' x 1 or 2" acoustic panel on the wall behind the TV would work great. Use a multi-shaded gray patterned fabric to add more visual interest and actually help further reduce viewing fatigue. A simple but less elegant method would be to use gray convoluted foam or other similar acoustic foam tiles. Some of them come in 4' x 4' sections.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The Standard model will be most suitable. Ideally you could provide a flat gray backdrop for critical viewing sessions. Hanging a 4' x 4' x 1 or 2" acoustic panel on the wall behind the TV would work great. Use a multi-shaded gray patterned fabric to add more visual interest and actually help further reduce viewing fatigue. A simple but less elegant method would be to use gray convoluted foam or other similar acoustic foam tiles. Some of them come in 4' x 4' sections.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Great will have to order one come this payday =). Another quick question tho, does the light need to be placed on the back of the TV or can it also be placed on the wall behind the TV?

It's usually best to mount the fixture close to the TV. The illumination will spread out better if the light is located farther away from the wall.

I just ordered the Ideal-Lume standard light to put behind my Sammy HLS5687w (dlp). I have a IR Harmony remote and am trying to find a really cheap way to switch it on/off (other than by hand, smart arses). If I plug it into the switched outlet on my receiver, is there any downside to this? My room does not have much ambient light, even during the day, and I have been noticing eye strain even when watching TV in the afternoon.

The switched outlet would be fine, as long as you don't mind the light being on all the time the receiver is on. I control my light with an 880, but had to buy an IR to Rf module and a light module. The advantage with this is that I can turn light on or off and also dim or brighten it.

The switched outlet would be fine, as long as you don't mind the light being on all the time the receiver is on. I control my light with an 880, but had to buy an IR to Rf module and a light module. The advantage with this is that I can turn light on or off and also dim or brighten it.

What is the light module you are using -- is that what you use to dim the bias light? I plan on upgrading to a Harmoney 890 after Christmas, so an RF light module would work well for me.

What is the light module you are using -- is that what you use to dim the bias light? I plan on upgrading to a Harmoney 890 after Christmas, so an RF light module would work well for me.

The Ideal-Lume fluorescent bias light cannot be dimmed electrically. That would require a very expensive dimming ballast, plus none currently made would fit inside the fixture. Your light comes with a mechanical dimming feature that is set once to match the peak white output of the TV, then left at that setting. Remote control of the bias light must be limited to on/off switching only.

No RF codes currently in use can be taught to an RF remote. Your Harmony simply converts IR codes to its own proprietary RF codes, which are then sent to a matching base station, where they are converted back to IR.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

A ways back in this thread someone mentioned that plugging the Ideal-Lume light into the switched outlet on a receiver would drastically shorten the life of the bulb. Has this been addressed in subsequent generations of the light or is it still a known issue? If so, what causes it? How is it any different than flipping a light switch?

The only reason using a receiver's switched outlet would shorten lamp life is due to running the bias light when it's not needed. In other words, most people use their receiver at other times than watching their TV in the dark. The lamp will last longer if it's only used when necessary.

Using a switched outlet should not be any different than any other type of switch. All you're doing is allowing the current to pass on to the lamp or not.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George,

I just ordered a panel light for my 50" plasma. I have the panel built into a custom wall unit. The panel hangs on an articulating arm, and in the normal viewing position, sits in a cubby hole with about 2" on each side, flush with the front of the wall unit.

I need some recommendation for a paint color for the cubby hole. I was initially thinking of a very dark grey. Can you recommend a color?

thanks.

The Kodak 18% gray card is about as dark as you probably ought to go. Any darker and you may need more light.

The Kodak 18% gray card is about as dark as you probably ought to go. Any darker and you may need more light.

Have you, or anyone, compared an 18% gray card to paint swatches from Sherwin, Ralph L., Behr, etc., to find a close color match?

.

I haven't. Any decent camera shop will have a Kodak or equivalent 18% gray card for somewhere between $10 & $15. Take that to most paint purveyors and get a visual match or a computerized color scan. If that's too much money and/or running around for your liking, just get a medium shade of neutral gray flat paint.

I haven't. Any decent camera shop will have a Kodak or equivalent 18% gray card for somewhere between $10 & $15. Take that to most paint purveyors and get a visual match or a computerized color scan. If that's too much money and/or running around for your liking, just get a medium shade of neutral gray flat paint.

George,

I will be ordering my Idealume this Friday to complement the 56" HLS5687W I just purchased. I am curious about a couple things though. First of all, should I use the single bulb version or will I benefit from using the dual-lamp model with one mounted at the bottom of the set and one at the top? That's really my only product specific question, now for what I really need to know :)

The walls in my living room are currently your basic white / off-white flavor. I've been wanting to paint anyway and now have the opportunity to tune my paint color(s) to best suit the TV. I was going to go get an 18% gray card matched but unfortunately I don’t have one and they are on backorder from Kodak as well as every local and online retailer I've come across. That being said I have a general idea of the shade anyway so no big loss there.
Problems arise due to the layout of the living room. Basically all of my equipment, including the TV, is lined up against a wall of which the top half is a window for the entire width of the wall. Therein lays my dilemma. I'm not sure if I'd be better off running gray or black curtains from ceiling to floor or just cover the windowed area with curtains and paint the wall below and around the curtain close to 18% gray. Aesthetically I prefer to use a black curtain that just comes down to cover the window and then paint the surrounding area gray. The problem here is that the bottom of the curtain would end about half way down the height of my sets viewing area and then the wall begins. In this case there would be a medium gray background (paint) on the lower half of the set, with a black background on the upper half (curtain). Would this cause me to perceive the colors differently at the respective halves of the set? My other concern with running a fabric backdrop (read: curtains) ceiling to floor is that I'm not sure how that will react with the bias-lighting. It would seem that the fabric backdrop would provide the absolute least amount of light reflection and thus be preferred.
Sorry for the interior design questions but I am going bananas trying to get this all correct the first time. Up until 2 weeks ago bias-lighting was just an afterthought for me and I just don't have firm enough grasp on how everything comes together to make this choice.

Thanks,
Matt

sticky

For 18% gray: Colorplace Intermediate Base 67387 (Satin Latex, 1 Quart)
Tints: Black: 45 shots, White: 56 shots, 1 half shot

or

Behr "Dark Granite 780F-6" at Home Depot

Thank you sir. I have a bunch of gray Behr chips and figured Dark Granite would be pretty close based on the pictures of 18% gray cards I've seen.

Matt,

Merry Christmas!

There are other manufacturers of 18% gray cards. Try online, such as B&H Photo. Most paint companies have what they call a neutral range of gray sample chips available. The Munsell samples I carry and the photo gray cards are true technical references. Any shade of gray can be suitable for the wall. The 18% gray cards are a bit dark for many home applications. Anything along the gray scale, up to and including white, is fine for providing a neutral surround.

should I use the single bulb version or will I benefit from using the dual-lamp model with one mounted at the bottom of the set and one at the top?

One fluorescent fixture is usually sufficient for your size of TV and light to medium painted walls. If you go with full length drapes, 2 might be needed.

In this case there would be a medium gray background (paint) on the lower half of the set, with a black background on the upper half (curtain). Would this cause me to perceive the colors differently at the respective halves of the set?

No. Both the black and gray should theoretically be neutral. It's a non-neutral surround that skews color perception.

If I had your room, I would consider miniblinds or cellular shades in front of the windows only, for adjustable daytime use of the windows. For total light control I would use full-length drapes behind a vallance. This also adds some acoustic absorption to enhance speech intelligibility and instrument/sound effect articulation across the front 3 sound channels. Black is not a good color for drapes that will be illuminated.

Up until 2 weeks ago bias-lighting was just an afterthought for me and I just don't have firm enough grasp on how everything comes together

You are in the majority, including many home theater professionals. Human perceptual factors and viewing environment conditions are not sufficiently understood or regarded in system design circles. If picture quality and image fidelity are top priorities, human factors and viewing environment conditions cannot be ignored.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Matt,

Merry Christmas!

There are other manufacturers of 18% gray cards. Try online, such as B&H Photo. Most paint companies have what they call a neutral range of gray sample chips available. The Munsell samples I carry and the photo gray cards are true technical references. Any shade of gray can be suitable for the wall. The 18% gray cards are a bit dark for many home applications. Anything along the gray scale, up to and including white, is fine for providing a neutral surround.


Merry Christmas to you as well, sir - and thank you for the response!

Checked B&H also, they were on backorder as well. But I did find a few on eBay so I'm good there.



One fluorescent fixture is usually sufficient for your size of TV and light to medium painted walls. If you go with full length drapes, 2 might be needed.


Perfect, will try one and see where I'm at then add another if need be.


No. Both the black and gray should theoretically be neutral. It's a non-neutral surround that skews color perception.

If I had your room, I would consider miniblinds or cellular shades in front of the windows only, for adjustable daytime use of the windows. For total light control I would use full-length drapes behind a vallance. This also adds some acoustic absorption to enhance speech intelligibility and instrument/sound effect articulation across the front 3 sound channels. Black is not a good color for drapes that will be illuminated.


I was only going to run the 18% on the wall the TV sits on, with a much lighter gray on the surrounding walls. Going that dark in my entire room would reallllly close the room in more than I'm willing to.
Presently there are veritcal blinds covering the window, I considered painting the slats 18% too, but think that may look a bit taky. I did find some room darkening shades at Target that supposedly filter 100% of the light.. Actually, here they are:

http://www.target.com/gp/browse.html/ref=in_br_display-ladders/601-2207557-6302529?ie=UTF8&node=300010011

Wide variety of colors but i'm looking at the Mora Silver or Brush Black (Looks more like gray to me) varieties. I need four panels for the window, so looking at $160 just in drapery plus a $40 rod that will stretch the length :eek: Gotta pay to play though, right? I've been wanting to get something completely covering that window anyway since it's on ground level and I don't want anyone to see the setup.


You are in the majority, including many home theater professionals. Human perceptual factors and viewing environment conditions are not sufficiently understood or regarded in system design circles. If picture quality and image fidelity are top priorities, human factors and viewing environment conditions cannot be ignored.

Seems to be the case, I had no idea. Just another thing for me to be OCD over :D

I really appreciate you taking the time to enlighten me on this though and look forward to placing my order on Friday.

I really appreciate you taking the time to enlighten me on this

I'm happy to help. This forum has been very beneficial to me over the years, on many topics. I have better understanding of audio and video theory and practice in my personal life and profession.

This thread has become a significant venue for imparting and debating what I have learned in the field of viewing environment principles and human perceptual factors applying to electronic displays. My primary objective is to help people enjoy better pictures. Those who apply the principles enjoy the benefits.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I understand the benefit of bias lighting, but am wondering how important it is to use 6500 color temp bulbs. Typical "daylight" bulbs are 5000. Would that be reasonable? All my under-cabinet T5 fluorescents are warm white and it just seems that 6500 is going to be too harsh and cold. Not to mention that 6500 bulbs are much harder to find...