jdialc,

Welcome to the forum. All of your questions have relatively simple answers. At this point you just think you understand the value of bias lighting. There are actually multiple benefits. It's apparent you haven't read much of this very long thread or know much about video display industry standards and principles of imaging science. That's OK, we all start somewhere. You would have a much better understanding of this issue if you would spend a little time on my web site: www.cinemaquestinc.com .

Using 6500K ambient lighting in a video viewing environment has no relation whatsoever to standard lighting techniques used by interior designers. Those techniques and practices tend to compromise picture quality on a TV screen. The principles underlying the proper implementation of ambient lighting in a video viewing environment have been understood and practiced in the video professions for decades. Videophiles and home entertainment consumers have also benefited from the same or similar practices in the home. If achieving the best pictures possible from your video display is a worthy goal, understanding and providing proper viewing environment conditions will be worth the effort.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks Alan,

Actually I'm not quite as dumb as I look :-) although I admit my question makes it look that way. I understand that my display's gray level is (or should be) set to 6500K. And I know that that is the ideal for bias lighting ( and I have actually lurked on this forum for quite some time). And I've been to your web site and come close to purchasing the IdealLume. My hesitation arises because I'm wary that in an otherwise dark viewing environment 6500K will seem too cold (like a shop light but more so).

The placement of the light will be about 3 feet above my plasma display and will illuminate the wall and ceiling, which are painted white. My main objective is to eliminate eye strain but I don't want to create an unpleasant lighting environment, thus my question regarding 5000K as a compromise.

Have you read the 'Customer Comments' section on that site? Have you ever lived with correctly implemented bias lighting? If not, many others have. I have never had anyone return our products due to issues such as you anticipate. In fact you are the first person I've encountered, in over 15 years of studying this technique, to express such concerns. What I endeavor to do is provide education and practical solutions that help viewers achieve a more accurate and stress-free video viewing experience.

If you want what imparts a sense of warmth to you in the room while watching TV, do what you have to do. It's your room and there are always exceptions. I can only speak authoritatively about imaging science principles, human visual characteristics and proven electronic display industry standards and practices. You get to decide what to do for yourself and in your entertainment system. If image fidelity is your goal, 6500K back lighting is correct. Use of 5000K back lighting would be a compromise.

Thanks OJ,

The 6500K CFL looks like a cheap way to see we like it before investing in a more permanent solution.

The standard recommended color rendering index in all imaging industries that rely on accurate color comparison is a minimum of 90 out of 100. All of the lamps in the links above are between 82 and 86. The better phosphor formulas are more costly so the lamps that use them tend to cost more.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Has anyone attempted to use a light sensor in conjuction with their switched outlet?

I don't want to invest in RF-IR modules for remote use, so I'm thinking of powering my bias with my receiver's AC switch. But just doing that means the lamp is on when it may not be necessary (like daytime). So I want to run a photo control unit into the mix somewhere, so that the lamp is only powered 1) when the receiver is on and 2) when it is dark in the room.

I can't think of why that wouldn't work (provided the photo control provides full current), but I just wanted to see if anyone else had tried this.

Rev

a plug for George and his products ... I was skeptical about the claimed benefits of a bias light, but because I was experiencing so much eye fatigue (my wife thought I was idiot when I described what I was buying and why, and then suggested that I simply stop playing xbox and watching football -- yeah, sure). Anyway, I installed one of his lights 2 months ago and the eye fatigue is gone. Can't say one way or the other whether the picture is any better, but I sure enjoy watching the tv more without the fatigue.

How about just buying a table lamp (for plasma on stand) and putting a 6500k bulb on it and just placing the lamp behind the tv panel?

I have the Ideal-Lume standard I bought a couple of months ago and I think it helps eyestrain under dark conditions. My wife, however, finds it distracting and prefers the room to be totally dark. I'm thinking that perhaps I don't have it properly placed behind my set. I have my 50" DLP set up on a stand in the corner of my family room with a white wall behind most of the left side and a white wall and a window to the right. I have the Ideal-Lume set up behind my set on the stand facing the corner, more to the left. It's not centered in the corner, i.e. there is more wall to the left of the stand than to the right. Any ideas - perhaps it needs to be adjusted to be less bright?

How about just buying a table lamp (for plasma on stand) and putting a 6500k bulb on it and just placing the lamp behind the tv panel?

Done correctly, that can work fine. The closer you come to fulfilling the SMPTE recommendations, the better it will look and work. Attention to detail in applying the principles of video bias lighting will yield the benefits.

Nothing my company makes is original or could not be duplicated by a hobbyist. Our purpose is to provide something of reference quality, that's pre-assembled, simple and ready to go. We save videophiles and professionals the time and trouble of locating and configuring the right solution on their own. Our research, skill, time and trouble must be justly compensated, however.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

perhaps it needs to be adjusted to be less bright?

Possibly. Do you have the right test pattern for setting the output to the recommended level of illumination?

I have the Ideal-Lume set up behind my set on the stand facing the corner, more to the left. It's not centered in the corner, i.e. there is more wall to the left of the stand than to the right. Any ideas

You could try mounting the Ideal-Lume vertically and adjusting its orientation and turning the baffle tube right or left to distribute the illumination differently.

Any check this rope light out?

http://www.ledlightworld.com/ledrope.html

Is all rope light LEDs? The white ones look pretty good if you dimmed them
down some. They are pretty close temp wise.

Is all rope light LEDs?

Most are incandescent and very yellow when dimmed. Dimming and trimming to custom lengths are easily done. LED rope lights are typically not dimmable or allow cutting to custom lengths. The power supplies are designed for the specific length of rope that they come with.

They are pretty close temp wise.

According to what standard? The link you supplied only lists 5500K not 6500K. Be very cautious about believing LED color temp claims. Thus far all the so-called 6500K LED products I've measured have been closer to 8500K and obviously too blue, even to the untrained eye. LEDs only change color temp slightly when dimmed. Dimming cannot be done with cheap, conventional, incandescent dimmers. LEDs are either on or off. Therefore, dimming can only be accomplished via pulse width modulation, requiring electronic controls that are more costly.

How about just buying a table lamp (for plasma on stand) and putting a 6500k bulb on it and just placing the lamp behind the tv panel?

That's close to what I've done. I took a spare lamp we had, disassembled it, and put it behind the TV. I took out the column and attached the fixture directly to the base. I also bypassed the switch. I then glued this to some velcro strips and attached it to the back of my plasma (total height is about 4 inches). I'm using a compact fluorescent craft light that claims 6000K and 91 CRI. Since I'm principally interested in relieving eye strain, that's good enough for me. I've got the bulb plugged into a standard lamp-fit light sensor. Thus, the lamp is only powered when my receiver is on, and the light only activates when it is dimly lit in the room). Works well, and no extra remote units to hassle with.

Most are incandescent and very yellow when dimmed. Dimming and trimming to custom lengths are easily done. LED rope lights are typically not dimmable or allow cutting to custom lengths. The power supplies are designed for the specific length of rope that they come with.



According to what standard? The link you supplied only lists 5500K not 6500K. Be very cautious about believing LED color temp claims. Thus far all the so-called 6500K LED products I've measured have been closer to 8500K and obviously too blue, even to the untrained eye. LEDs only change color temp slightly when dimmed. Dimming cannot be done with cheap, conventional, incandescent dimmers. LEDs are either on or off. Therefore, dimming can only be accomplished via pulse width modulation, requiring electronic controls that are more costly.George, I apologize in advance for this being off-topic, but since you are the lighting expert and I have purchased a back-light from you I thought I would ask anyway. :D
Your first sentence about the lights being very yellow when dimmed is the same problem I see with our kitchen lights (8 or 9 canned lights recessed in the ceiling). When we dim the lights, it is not quite like we had those yellow bug lights, but it is yellow enough that we rarely dim them and prefer the 100% setting that gives us nice white light although it may be brighter than we really want. Any suggestions on what if any bulbs we can use?

thanks,
Murray

Any suggestions on what if any bulbs we can use?

Four suggestions:

The blue tinted incandescents offered by GE (Reveal) and others take some of the yellow out of the equation. Blue is opposite yellow in CIE color space, so the blue cancels out some of the yellow. These solutions are not very costly and can be dimmed easily and economically.

If your fixtures can accommodate 12 Volt MR16 tungsen/halogen lamps, there are some bulbs on the market that produce about 4500K illumination. They have a blue tint on the reflector. Their spectral power distribution is exceptional and render surface colors closest to sunlight. The fixtures, dimmers and bulbs are all more expensive. Such fixtures are available in recessed cans and tracks.

Install recessed fluorescent or 'cloud' type fixtures on the ceiling. The ballasts would need to be replaced with dimmable electronic ballasts and special dimmers are required. High CRI daylight fluorescent lamps in longer lengths are available, with wattage ratings compatable with the available ballasts.

Dimmable compact fluorescent fixtures and lamps can get you a more 'daylight' spectrum from 5000K to 6500K. The color rendering index on these lamps are usually 84 or lower. This type of fluorescent fixture is available in recessed cans. These last two solutions are the most expensive of these suggestions.

By the way, I wouldn't characterize myself as a "lighting expert" except that I have studied electronic display viewing environment issues extensively. My fields of study pertain to imaging science, display standards and human perceptual characteristics, as they apply to electronic imaging. The suggestions above come from what I have picked up along the way in my research and development.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Four suggestions:

The blue tinted incandescents offered by GE (Reveal) and others take some of the yellow out of the equation. Blue is opposite yellow in CIE color space, so the blue cancels out some of the yellow. These solutions are not very costly and can be dimmed easily and economically.

If your fixtures can accommodate 12 Volt MR16 tungsen/halogen lamps, there are some bulbs on the market that produce about 4500K illumination. They have a blue tint on the reflector. Their spectral power distribution is exceptional and render surface colors closest to sunlight. The fixtures, dimmers and bulbs are all more expensive. Such fixtures are available in recessed cans and tracks.

Install recessed fluorescent or 'cloud' type fixtures on the ceiling. The ballasts would need to be replaced with dimmable electronic ballasts and special dimmers are required. High CRI daylight fluorescent lamps in longer lengths are available, with wattage ratings compatable with the available ballasts.

Dimmable compact fluorescent fixtures and lamps can get you a more 'daylight' spectrum from 5000K to 6500K. The color rendering index on these lamps are usually 84 or lower. This type of fluorescent fixture is available in recessed cans. These last two solutions are the most expensive of these suggestions.

By the way, I wouldn't characterize myself as a "lighting expert" except that I have studied electronic display viewing environment issues extensively. My fields of study pertain to imaging science, display standards and human perceptual characteristics, as they apply to electronic imaging. The suggestions above come from what I have picked up along the way in my research and development.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"George, you know 1000x more than I do on this subject, so I consider you an expert! :D

Well I don't plan to replace any of my fixtures right now, so the 3rd and 4th options are out as well as probably the 2nd option. How do I tell if my fixtures can accommodate 12 Volt MR16 tungsen/halogen lamps?

thanks again.

Murray

If they use standard screw-in light bulbs, they won't take 12 Volt MR16s. There are some screw-in adapter type converters but you'll have to examine them carefully and note how they can be dimmed. Try a Google search and also visiting a specialty lighting store.

If they use standard screw-in light bulbs, they won't take 12 Volt MR16s. There are some screw-in adapter type converters but you'll have to examine them carefully and note how they can be dimmed. Try a Google search and also visiting a specialty lighting store.George, between the time I posted and you replied, I did google this and found out that my screw-in adapter socket would not work. I'll take a look at the adapters, but will probably try the Reveal blue lights first.
Thanks!
Murray

I tried backlighting and it did work making the picture more dynamic but it also distracted me.

OK, I ordered the Ideal Lume standard. The price is OK but the shipping is a little too high. I also found no replacement tube for that in local stores like HomeDepot or Lowes. They are either not at right size of have too low temperature. Very few of them list CRI. I think I have to order the tubes online in the future and that sucks. Also wish I could add a remote control on the light.



I did see a 8 buck fluorescent bulb at homedepot and I like it. It's Feit's enhancement series and has two 5-6" tubes and 4 pins at one end with specs of 18W, 10000 hours, 6500k and Full Spectrum light but no figure on its CRI. The only lamp whose arm can be turned in all direction has a blue deflector cover which defeat this purpose. So no good lamp to hold the bulb. Another reason I give up a desk lamp is that I think a 22" bulb should render more even and smooth light on the background than a bulb 6" or shorter. Behind the tv stand I have a curtain which may look different in parts when the only light source is a spot instead of a 22" long tube. My TV is 50" plasma on a stand in front of a slide window door. The wall is in pale sunshine color and the curtain is a little darker than the wall but in slight yellow with some texture. The curtain has no deflection at all. The distance between the back panel of tv and the curtain is about 2-3 feet. The background is not ideal for tv viewing because of the big slide window door size and the curtain. Besides adding the Ideal Lume standard I don't know any other choice to make it better. If I want to hang a curtain that is a flat cloth with the same color of the wall to make it more wall-like the wife will freak out.

George, please comment on my viewing background a bit.

George,

My 50" panel is not wall mounted so I can place one ideal-lume standard light right in the middle of the back of it.

However I saw that on your website you also have the Panelight model that brings 2 lights.

What are the advantages of having 2 lights? Is this for panels bigger than 50"? Do you generally recommend having 2 lights for a 50" panel for more light uniformity? Generally, would a dimmer be necessary when having 2 lights on?

I want to imitate the halo effect that a rope light can give a panel as much as possible, but I didn't know if buying the 2 light kit would get me any closer to it. What do you think? Will 2 lights provide a better effect that 1 light for a 50" panel?

Bulb replacement for Ideal Lume:

At what point should we repalce the bulb before it bust out? What's the minimum temprature and minimum CRI number should we stick on? Which is more important? Those tubes at Homedepot and Lowes usually have much lower temperature ratings and have no CRI numbers, and they are usually thicker tubes in diameter and probably don't fit in the kit. what are the general clues if we have to pick up one at those stores?

George,

My 50" panel is not wall mounted so I can place one ideal-lume standard light right in the middle of the back of it.

However I saw that on your website you also have the Panelight model that brings 2 lights.

What are the advantages of having 2 lights? Is this for panels bigger than 50"? Do you generally recommend having 2 lights for a 50" panel for more light uniformity? Generally, would a dimmer be necessary when having 2 lights on?

I want to imitate the halo effect that a rope light can give a panel as much as possible, but I didn't know if buying the 2 light kit would get me any closer to it. What do you think? Will 2 lights provide a better effect that 1 light for a 50" panel?

I am curious about this as well.

I have a 50" plasma that is wall mounted. My initial thought was to get the single Ideal Lume Standard and place it on top of the mounting bracket behind the display, facing up (about six or eight inches below the top of the display).

Would this orientation work well? Or would two lights, one one either side, be better? Thanks.

1stHD,

Also wish I could add a remote control on the light.

We have several options suggested on our web site.

George, please comment on my viewing background a bit.

I would suggest another drape, behind the existing one. The drape should be neutral, such as white to gray or even a neutral pattern of whites, blacks, and/or grays. When the lights are on, or during the day, only the original curtain will show. At night, or during critical viewing sessions in the dark, retract the yellow curtains and close the neutral ones behind the TV. Then you will have the SMPTE recommended neutral surround for bias lighting and optimum viewing of color television pictures.

At what point should we repalce the bulb before it bust out? What's the minimum temprature and minimum CRI number should we stick on? Which is more important? Those tubes at Homedepot and Lowes usually have much lower temperature ratings and have no CRI numbers, and they are usually thicker tubes in diameter and probably don't fit in the kit. what are the general clues if we have to pick up one at those stores?

All those questions are answered earlier in this thread or on my web site, except the last one. You should always have a spare lamp (bulb), just like owning a lamp-based TV or projector. The good lamps are not typically available over the counter. Superior phosphors are more expensive, so the mass-market retailers usually don't stock lamps that use them. If the CRI is not noted on the package, the manufacturer is likely not proud of the number.

hidefLoans/TimV,

The Ideal-Lume Panelight is specifically configured for wall-mounted flat TVs, where there is not sufficient distance behind the TV cabinet to allow for even light spread. Some folks have used two sets, to provide illumination in all 4 directions behind their flat, wall-mounted TV.

Some users have dark paneling behind a free-standing TV and get the Panelight simply to double the lumen output on the dark wall. The answers to other of your questions can be derived from the information on my web site or earlier in this thread. I'm sorry, but I just don't have the time to repeat myself too often.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I have a 50PX60U (May/06). I don't have any ISF techs in my area so I have been playing around with the setup myself. Used DVE disk. Since I can't set the gamma properly I'm just doing simple tweaks. While this may not be ideal I did go to Home Depot and bought a 12' rope light and installed it around the back outside edges of my corner cabinet Between the cabinet and the walls and across the top). The rope light is not visible from the front so it is not distracting. It gives reflective light onto the side walls and ceiling. The difference is amazing. The blacks are blacker and the colors much more vibrant and true. I can only imagine what a professional calibration and a proper bias light would do. If someone wants to see an immediate difference without buying the whole store this is definitely worth trying. Thanks to those of you who suggested this.
Enjoy!!

I just purchased a Ideal Lume Panel light and was wondering if anyone had a Hitachi 65F59? I understand this is the flat panel forum, but I am hoping there are other RP owners out there following this thread.

I am asking because of the way the back is on this TV. It has a weird back (not flat) and was wondering what others had used.

My lights should be here Thursday and I hope to paint using one of the Behr paints this weekend. I don't think I will go with the 780f-6, but with 780F- 4 or 5.

Thanks,
Matt

Have loosely followed this thread. I have a Pio 5070 and before I mounted it, we had it on a table. I put down to cannister lights behind the set and we could see a huge improvement in pq and overall viewing enjoyment.

Has anyone have any first hand knowledge of the illuminaire lights? They are high dollar as are most professionally built systems. Many swear by the rope light thing. It sure is cheaper, but does it work or is the light output obvious that it's from a rope light?

First let me say that I don't think the rope light would be anywhere near what GEORGEAB at CinemaQuest has to offer. I'm positive his solution would be better and much closer to the proper bias if the set has been professionally calibrated. Like I said above this is a quick fix for someone who wants to see immediate results before they spend a lot of money. I have no idea how the temperature of the rope would compare to lights designed for a system.
The rope light is not obvious providing you place it properly behind the display or cabinet so that it is not visible and merely reflects the light off the walls. At some point when I can get my set done professionally I will replace the rope with an Ideal-Lume light. I only wish that I could get it done yesterday. If anyone knows of an ISF Tech in New Brunswick, Canada please let me know.

I just installed 2 sets of CinemaQuest Panelights on my floor mounted 65' Panasonic yesterday.

I'm very pleased with the product in terms of build quality, the aesthetics and the many ways to mount the lights and hook them up electrically. They are very compact and extremely lightweight .
My setup is in a less than ideal setting , but the backlighting effect on viewing is very pleasing.



I thought I'd post some shots of the finished installation as an example of a way to mount these backlights.

I attached a 48" long 1" square steel tube from HomeDepot to 2 unused wall mounting holes using the bolts from my removed handles . I then velcro mounted the top 2 Panelights to it .
Instead of plugging the tube end holes , I used the voids to hide the excess Panelight connector cords
The side Panelights were also velcro mounted to the edges of the plasma base uprights.

I was lucky enough to have a electrical outlet close by, so i control the Panelights with a simple plug in on/off switch .

http://i18.tinypic.com/40ejl9e.jpg

http://i5.tinypic.com/2lauf7q.jpg

-

Has anyone have any first hand knowledge of the illuminaire lights? They are high dollar as are most professionally built systems. Many swear by the rope light thing. It sure is cheaper, but does it work or is the light output obvious that it's from a rope light?

Illuminaire has a very elegantly designed product and claims their "white" LEDs are 6500K. My spectroradiometer measurements found a sample ordered from them to be 8500K. Even my non-tech office lady immediately commented on how blue the product appeared, as soon as I plugged it in. When dimmed maximally, it still measured around 8000K. One way to compensate for the elevated color temp. would be to paint the wall a yellowish color. Of course, that would not be best when regular room lighting was in use. Perhaps a better fix would be to filter the product, since it uses a rigid form factor.

The majority of rope lighting on the market, especially the low-dollar stuff, is incandescent and way too yellow. I haven't bothered to measure any, but my best guess would be that the color temp is close to standard incandescents. That would be 2800-3800K. When it's dimmed, it gets even more yellow. A blue wall could compensate for the yellow character, but there is also a lot of red in an incandescent's spectrum that is emphasized when dimming occurs.

The newer LED rope lighting on the market is still very blue. LEDs cannot be dimmed without special electronics that supply a pulse width modulated signal to the diodes. LED rope cannot be trimmed to length like the incandescent versions because the transformer used to drive the diodes has to be designed for a specific load (determined by the number of LEDs in the circuit).

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Tanner144,

Thanks for the pics. Your mounting job is exceptionally detailed and refined. Is the shag carpet on the wall to absorb fan noise from the TV? By the way, why the bug zapper on the shelf behind the TV?

The newer LED rope lighting on the market is still very blue. LEDs cannot be dimmed without special electronics that supply a pulse width modulated signal to the diodes. LED rope cannot be trimmed to length like the incandescent versions because the transformer used to drive the diodes has to be designed for a specific load (determined by the number of LEDs in the circuit).

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"[/QUOTE]

I have a 50" Plasma mounted in a corner cabinet. The walls are a sandy beige color and as described above I have attached a cheap 12' rope light behind the outer edges of the cabinet and across the top. You are absolutely right when you say this goes towards the yellow side of the spectrum but it still made a huge difference. My question to you is which of your products would you recommend that would be more suitable and where would you install it/them? Behind/on the TV in the cabinet or on the cabinet itself. Attached is a daylight shot of the set up so you can better see what I'm talking about. Note that the outer edges of the TV are not inside the cabinet.
I look forward to your suggestions & input.
Thanks
Mike C

It appears that a suitable solution would be to vertically mount the 2 fixtures included in the Panelight model on either side of the corner cabinet, toward the top. Some experimentation in placement may be required to get the best light spread in your corner.

Tanner144,

Thanks for the pics. Your mounting job is exceptionally detailed and refined. Is the shag carpet on the wall to absorb fan noise from the TV? By the way, why the bug zapper on the shelf behind the TV?


thanks for the compliment - the shag carpet is for sound adjustment for the magnepan center speaker .
the bug zapper is a good description - thats the cat claw protection for that same center speaker .

-

It appears that a suitable solution would be to vertically mount the 2 fixtures included in the Panelight model on either side of the corner cabinet, toward the top. Some experimentation in placement may be required to get the best light spread in your corner.
Thanks for the response Alan. Do you ship to Canada or have a distributor?
Mike

1soupmeister,

You're welcome. Yes. No.

Here is a great article from CNET on backlighting. Explains a lot, at least to me. :eek:

DIY home theater: Backlight your TV
16/11/2005

Backlight your TV

Watching a large TV in a dark room can cause a lot of eyestrain. By placing a simple light behind your TV, you create the illusion of depth, resulting in less eyestrain and a more pleasant viewing experience.

I know you've been there: you're 5 hours into The Lord of the Rings marathon (watching the extended versions of each movie, of course), and your head begins to hurt. Your eyes get tired, and you can't understand what it is about those Uruk-Hai that's tiring you out. Well, it's not the movie; it's the lack of lighting in the room. More specifically, it's the lack of depth perception that the darkened room is causing.

When lights get dim, your television begins to "fade" into the back wall. Eventually, as lights go almost out (the optimal viewing environment), your eyes can no longer separate the picture on your screen from the wall behind it; but these two objects aren't the same distance away. If you're still unclear as to what I'm talking about, think about a camera trying to focus on two objects that are different distances away. Just as you seem to focus on one object, the other starts to grow blurry. That is what's happening to your eyes in a darkened room, and eventually, it'll begin to hurt. Your eyes need some way of distinguishing between the wall and the picture, which allows them to focus on just the picture, reducing eyestrain.

The easiest way to accomplish this is to backlight your television. Key to determining what light to use is the color-rendering index (CRI), which measures light's ability to render pigments (perceived as color) according to a prescribed standard. Most lights for your house don't even take CRI into consideration, so just grabbing a lamp and sticking it behind your TV won't help much--in fact, you won't even see a CRI rating on most bulbs. However, you can make a judgment based on the light's Kelvins (K).

Ratings of 5,000K and higher are referenced to daylight, based on different times of the day; 6,500K is best for a home-theater application. A white light rated at 6,500K will exactly match the white on a correctly calibrated TV set. You can pick up a 6,500K light from Home Depot, Lowe's, or Sears. Look for one of the following items:

· Westinghouse 18-inch 6,500K 94CRI 15w T-8
· Philips Daylight F20T12/D
· Westinghouse F15T8/FS 18-inch 6,500K 48CRI

Or, if you're a serious home-theater nut, check out CinemaQuest. It carries incredibly accurate 6,500K, 98CRI lamps made just for this application.

Place this light directly behind your TV set. You don't want the lamp visible, and you'll find the minimal light generated is not at all bothersome; in fact, as the hours roll by, it'll be quite pleasant.

Some nice side effects
In addition to reducing eyestrain, good backlighting often increases the perceived picture quality. Your eyes have a much more difficult time determining color without any light source. In fact, this is why colors seem so bright when you walk out of a dark room into daylight: your eyes have lost their color reference and have to adjust. The backlighting will provide just enough light for your eyes to get their color reference, and you'll find that pictures seem a little crisper and colors more vivid--quite a fringe benefit.

My light is too bright!
All the benefits in the world won't make you happy if your TV is small and your light is too bright. Suddenly, your lack of eyestrain is coupled with what appears to be an odd glow emanating from your TV; this isn't good. To lower the light level without losing the benefits, just place some tinfoil over the edges of the light and work your way toward the center of the lamp until you get acceptable light levels. The foil won't melt, and you'll get the same effect.

I went to home depot and I found a Philips f20t12 light rated at 5000K and CRI of 92. I also found some GE 18" lighting rated at 6500K and CRI of about 78-80. To use as backlighting which would be preferable? Thanks in advance. Trying to decide which to get.

Stick with the 6500K lamp or Google to order something with a better color rendering online. We have long-life high CRI lamps in our online store in various sizes for DIYs, but I don't know what size your fluorescent fixture requires.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Has anybody tried these? I plan on getting them when I mount my tv.

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15579&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=68162&langId=-1&categoryId=16082&chosenPartNumber=40095690

I plan on getting them when I mount my tv

What TV will you use these with? This product has an interesting and appealing form factor, as long as there is enough space provided for even light spread on the wall. Some wall-mounted flat panel TVs might not allow for that. However, I couldn't find anything at the link you provided that states if they are the right color temperature for video. If they use typical "white" LEDs they will be around 8500 Kelvins and appear quite blue. There is also no indication of how good their color rendering is. What do you plan to do about dimming?

What TV will you use these with? This product has an interesting and appealing form factor, as long as there is enough space provided for even light spread on the wall. Some wall-mounted flat panel TVs might not allow for that. However, I couldn't find anything at the link you provided that states if they are the right color temperature for video. If they use typical "white" LEDs they will be around 8500 Kelvins and appear quite blue. There is also no indication of how good their color rendering is. What do you plan to do about dimming?

Had not thougt about it in depth yet. I just came across this thread and was beginning to learn about some of differences with the backlighting. If they dont work out i can always use them some where else! I have the Sharp 45" LCD Flat Panel LC-40C45U.

Just got my Ideal Lume 2 piece backlighting set installed on a 42" TV. Not sure about the best way to set it up (either vertical or horizontal.) I think I'm going to put velcro along both setups and try it which way works a bit better. Right now I have it setup vertically, but there is too much light cast beneath the TV when I need a bit more above. But if I raise the height of the tubes, they begin to pop out over the top of the set.

Happy with my purchase though. The cost seemed a lil high at first, but when I tried to mickey-mouse my own solution at home depot, the overall cost would have been similar.

The light from the backlighting kit is nice, rich, and natural. In fact, the moment I turned my backlighting off and turned on my desk lamp my eyes squinted in disgust at the nasty yellow color coming out of the cheap bulb, lol.

I ran across of these click here (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15579&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=11158&langId=-1&categoryId=16235&chosenPartNumber=90098177) and was wondering if anybody had any experience with them? It would be nice if they came close to the 6500K standard. It looks like installation would be pretty straightforward if you use double-sided tape. Any thoughts? :rolleyes: Thanks

Themajickman,

I couldn't find anything at the link you provided that states if they are the right color temperature for video. If they use typical "white" LEDs they will be around 8500 Kelvins and appear quite blue. There is also no indication of how good their color rendering is. What do you plan to do about dimming?

Themajickman,

I couldn't find anything at the link you provided that states if they are the right color temperature for video. If they use typical "white" LEDs they will be around 8500 Kelvins and appear quite blue. There is also no indication of how good their color rendering is. What do you plan to do about dimming?

I appreciate your feedback. I'm just exploring different alternatives at this point. It appears that your system meets all the qualifications that I'm looking for :D to use behind my 52" LCD which I'm going to install using an articulating arm mount.

George
I have found a compact fluorescent bulb (BlueMaX) that is rated 5900K and a CRI of 94. Would this be better than what I am currently using which is a 6500k GE ultra daylight bulb that has a CRI of 82 I believe? I know that this is likely your competitor but an honest technical answer would be appreciated.
Thanks
Venom420

Go with the higher color rendering index.

George,

On your website you also have some T8 bulbs for sale that are seemingly superior to the T5 bulbs you are using in your Ideal-Lume fixtures. (Higher CRI, much longer life expectancy...)

I wonder what prompted you to go with the T5 bulbs besides the size advantage?
Also, are you planning on putting T8 lamps into your own fixtures in the future? (Seems like the way to go to me...)

(I tried to find some T8 fixtures at Home Depot and also online but was unsuccessful. Finally I broke down and ended up buying your Ideal-Lume Standard, not finding a better solution to incorporate your great T8 lamps...)

In light bulb speak, the "T" indicates a tubular shape. The "8" indicates how many eighths of an inch in diameter the tube is. These designations are preceded by an "F" and another number. That tells you the wattage of the lamp. Wattage has nothing to do with how bright it gets, but the electrical power it consumes.

That aside, we 'fired' our T8 fixture supplier due to deteriorating customer service and a threatened price increase on top of that. We have yet to locate another quality OEM for that size.

Our newest models use a T5 lamp and fixture. We made the switch in size to offer better form factor solutions to the increasing number of customers with flat panel televisions. This change also allowed us to lower our prices on the Standard and Panelight models by about 20%.

Our T5 lamp has a color rendering index of 90. I have only found one lamp with a higher CRI of 91, but it's 50% more expensive. The challenge in getting better color with this size of lamp is the narrow form factor. It's very difficult to achieve an even phosphor distribution in that small of a tube. That's one reason why most compact fluorescents have such low CRI ratings. They use an even smaller glass tube. Our CRI of 90 is still within the minimum recommended performance for ambient lighting, where critical color comparison is performed in various industries.

I want to offer a T8 product but have yet to find a suitable fixture. When we do find one, the price will be higher again than our current T5 Ideal-Lume Standard model. The higher cost will be justified by better performance, of course.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I want to offer a T8 product but have yet to find a suitable fixture.

Exactly what I was suspecting. :(

I've actually found some cheap backlight fixtures with the correct size for your T8 tubes, but did not trust the design and the quality of the ballast. :eek:

George, thanks for all your honest answers and for your great products! You are providing a real service on this forum.

Zoltan

:)

Thanks for the kind words. I'm simply responding in kind to all the help I've received in this forum and from others who have a passion for good pictures. In imaging science advocacy, everybody who listens and applies the principles wins. If I have been successful at clearly articulating the benefits of adhering to imaging industry standards and practices, it's gratifying. Home theater is first and foremost about enjoying cinematic art. As Joe Kane persists in saying, "It's all about the art."

Here's a question: what if the wall behind your display is not painted white? Ours is a golden yellow color, so could I get a different color bulb that would account for this yellow color and better correct for our Panasonic plasma display?

This is my wall that I will be mounting a 60" plasma on in a few months.

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/fireplace.jpg

I hope the wall color will be ok?

So, anyone have any pics of their 6,500 rope lights from Home depot? I read almost this whole thread, and I guess this is something new, as the older posts only talked about more yellow rope lights, nothing near 6,500k.

I hope the wall color will be ok?

I read almost this whole thread, and I guess this is something new, as the older posts only talked about more yellow rope lights, nothing near 6,500k.

Somehow you managed to skip the repeated conversations about wall color. There are also discussions about the fact that so-called '6500K' white LEDs are much more blue and typically measure about 8500K. However, you may be able to color correct your yellow wall with blue lighting. 8500K may be blue enough to render your wall color closer to neutral if the only light in the room is the bias lighting.

Yellow is approximately opposite blue in color space: http://videoessentials.com/CIEDiagrams.php . Yellow surfaces under blue light will have the yellow "neutralized" or pulled into the gray/white portion of color space. Note the center of the CIE diagrams in the above link. The only problem occurs when the "yellow" may be composed of too much red or green when the paint is mixed. As the blue light pulls the yellow out, the wall may appear slightly red or green. The only reliable way to insure a neutral backdrop for the TV would be to paint that wall a neutral gray or white. That would offer the same benefit during daylight hours.

You will also need to plan a way to regulate the output of the rope lighting to achieve the recommended 10% or less of brightness compared to the brightest white on the screen. I have yet to see any LED rope lights with dimmers.


By the way, how do you plan to get the video cabling to the TV? I see an electric outlet but no J-box for the in-wall cable run.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I have a friend that professionally installs these for a living and he will be tackling the hiding of cables, etc. If you know of a post that shows how to do this in an existing house, please paste the link. I'm kinda curious how you'd do it.

If you know of a post that shows how to do this in an existing house, please paste the link. I'm kinda curious how you'd do it.

That's a huge topic that would be too cumbersome for a post. It would require an inspection of the construction of your home and an interview about where the source components will be located, plus various options for routing the cabling to the TV. There are just too many potential variables to address all the hypotheticals. Leave it to a professional retrofit installer if you're only "kinda curious."

My suggestion is use aluminum foil to block some of the bulb light if it is too bright.

That's a handy tip, but let's get real. We spend thousands of dollars on a state-of-the-art home theater display in order to achieve great PQ, but at the same time you're skimping on a $100 bias light that is made for this purpose w/proper 6500 balance and affects PQ directly. Crazy idea IMHO. No time to play McGyver...

Has anyone used the Ideal-Lume Standard with a wall mounted 46" panel? Will it suffice or would I be left wanting for a second light?

This is for G. Alan Brown, President CinemaQuest, Inc.
After reading this forum and asking GAB for advice (posted in Feb) I ordered the Panel Light solution form CinemaQuest to replace the rope light I had from Home depot. I can only tell all of you it was worth the effort. I was able to regulate the amount of output using the shading that comes with the system and it has made a tremendous difference in the viewing pleasure of my Panny 50PX60U.
My advice is to stop looking for alternate solutions and lights trying to emulate what these guys have perfected. The price is very reasonable and well worth it in the long run. So my thanks to GAB and his team for a great product.

People stop fooling around and buy the best from the best . You are settling for second best if you build your own.
Mike.

Blush:o

This is for G. Alan Brown, President CinemaQuest, Inc.
After reading this forum and asking GAB for advice (posted in Feb) I ordered the Panel Light solution form CinemaQuest to replace the rope light I had from Home depot. I can only tell all of you it was worth the effort. I was able to regulate the amount of output using the shading that comes with the system and it has made a tremendous difference in the viewing pleasure of my Panny 50PX60U.
My advice is to stop looking for alternate solutions and lights trying to emulate what these guys have perfected. The price is very reasonable and well worth it in the long run. So my thanks to GAB and his team for a great product.

People stop fooling around and buy the best from the best . You are settling for second best if you build your own.
Mike.

Great info! Now, would this work with a 60" size Plazma? Which one would I need do you think, and would I need to get the wireless remote if I have a Harmony remote? Could I get that to control it?

would this work with a 60" size Plazma?

Yes.

Which one would I need do you think

That large of a display would likely need a light for each of the four sides, depending on how the TV is installed.

would I need to get the wireless remote if I have a Harmony remote? Could I get that to control it?

There are a variety of automated switching options discussed on our web site. You will need to consider all the variables in your application and choose what would work best for your system and budget. I do know that Harmony already gives you Lutron and X10 IR codes in their database.

Yes.



That large of a display would likely need a light for each of the four sides, depending on how the TV is installed.

What if the 60" Plasma was sitting on a stand on top a credenza??

The Standard model should suffice, unless the wall color is particularly dark.

Well, I installed the cheap rope lighting from Home Depot today. I like the look of it however I can see each individual light against the wall. I am not sure if this is because of the color of my wall (an off white but its kinda glossy looking) or if its because my plasma is on a stand and in a corner. I may take this back and try something else. The wife is NOT letting me spend more than 40 bucks on this one. :( So any ideas? Thanks

Well, I installed the cheap rope lighting from Home Depot today. I like the look of it however I can see each individual light against the wall. I am not sure if this is because of the color of my wall (an off white but its kinda glossy looking) or if its because my plasma is on a stand and in a corner. I may take this back and try something else. The wife is NOT letting me spend more than 40 bucks on this one. :( So any ideas? Thanks


Read my post of April 5 above. It will solve your problem
Mike

Well, I installed the cheap rope lighting from Home Depot today. I like the look of it however I can see each individual light against the wall. I am not sure if this is because of the color of my wall (an off white but its kinda glossy looking) or if its because my plasma is on a stand and in a corner. I may take this back and try something else. The wife is NOT letting me spend more than 40 bucks on this one. :( So any ideas? Thanks

:eek:

OK, here is my advice.
Get the $40 from your wife. Buy the Ideal-Lume T5 setup for $5X.XX from George. Use your pocket money to cover the difference. Tell wife that the light was 39.99.

:p

Wilson10, I was in the exact same situation. The 6ft rope light looked good as mood lighting around my plasma but did nothing for the picture. I actually left the rope light in place 'cause it creates a very nice warm glow which is great as night light, but now I use the Ideal-Lume light to enhance my viewing pleasure...

Well, I installed the cheap rope lighting from Home Depot today. I like the look of it however I can see each individual light against the wall. I am not sure if this is because of the color of my wall (an off white but its kinda glossy looking) or if its because my plasma is on a stand and in a corner. I may take this back and try something else. The wife is NOT letting me spend more than 40 bucks on this one. :( So any ideas? Thanks

Charge your buddies $5 a head to watch an NBA game in H D add that to $40 and you got yourself an Ideal-Lume. Tell them why your charging them and they'll gladly fork it over especially if they're married.

Ok, so I took the rope light back and for the heck of it, bought a GE Daylight 6500k bulb and a 24" fixture for it. Came home and watched a few movies. I liked the subtleness of the rope light A LOT better. Now, with that said, the wife said to order the real deal so i am now allowed to spend some money and get the Ideal-Lume. So here is my question, my tv sets in a corner, I have white walls and I do not like the result of the flourescent light at all, so will the Ideal-Lume produce similar results? I will post a few pictures to illustrate what the cheap fixure and GE bulb produce. Thanks

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t230/wilson216/backlightattempt008.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t230/wilson216/backlightattempt013.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t230/wilson216/backlightattempt006.jpg

[QUOTE=wilson10] So here is my question, my tv sets in a corner, I have white walls and I do not like the result of the fluorescent light at all, so will the Ideal-Lume produce similar results? I will post a few pictures to illustrate what the cheap fixture and GE bulb produce. Thanks

I too have a corner set up and got the panel light from Ideal-Lume. This has 2 fixtures with built in shading so I am able to control the amount of reflected light that is going to the wall. I personally think you are going to have a problem no matter what you do until you paint your walls. As long as they are white you are going to get a certain amount of glare and/or halo effect no matter what you do. With a white background there is nothing to absorb the light.

Yeah wilson10, that corner situation is not ideal... That being said you still can try a couple of things, for example to install the Ideal-Lume light VERTICALLY (just a crazy idea).

From the posted pictures your 24 inch GE light looks like it is overpowering. Just too much light output... With the shorter and less bright Ideal-Lume T5 bulb you'll have a much better background lighting. My guess is that the white wall also will be fine with that.

Another crazy idea; if you don't like the "harshness" of the shadows on the wall, why don't you experience with some white curtains to diffuse the light? Done with good taste (and with some luck) it would dress up/spice up the whole area a nicely. (Your wife could take ownership of that project. Women excel in things like that... ;) )

I do not like the result of the flourescent light at all

You don't have the backlight implemented correctly. Have you studied the recommended application of the principles of bias lighting? If not, go here: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm .

It's obvious from your third photo that you have too much light on the wall. The SMPTE recommendation is to provide 10% of the illumination on the wall as the peak luminance of the picture on the TV. This is also recommended by ISO, the ISF and ITU for critical evaluation of electronic monitors. Set your contrast and brightness appropriate for dark room viewing. Display a backlight level test pattern from the popular home theater setup DVDs (Video Essentials, Digital Video Essentials, Avia Guide to Home Theater, or Sound & Vision Home Theater TuneUp). Adjust the output of the lamp by partially covering it, by narrowing the exposed surface of the fluorescent tube. Compare the level of gray in the test pattern to the amount of illumination on the wall. Rotate or re-orient the fixture until you get the most even distribution on the wall.

Part of the beauty of using an Ideal-Lume is that it has a rotating mechanical baffle already installed over the tube. This allows simple and quick dimming and also some degree of aiming of the output.

Your white wall is beneficial, especially if it is a matte finish. Gloss or semi-gloss can produce glare and/or hotspots. White is neutral and will preserve the 6500K color performance of the lamp. Having a neutral backdrop for the TV will enhance correct color perception for the viewer. Colors on the TV will appear more true and natural.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

thanks for the responses. The third picture in which you stated way too much light I will agree, and that is with nothing covering the light. For the other 2, there is some foil (ala Cnet DIY) covering the light.

The bottom line is this, I am not going to change too much in the room as this is a temporary setup and we will be buying a new house within a year or so. The wall is somewhat glossy.

GAB, what does the basic light come with? I don't see anything on there about filters or anything.

I just wanted something that enhanced my viewing and I feel this was what I needed. I am getting nothing but a headache now though LOL. I don't have any of the "special" setup dvds and may never. I might get the new essentials if it ever comes out, so all that posted above is useless to me at this point.

I don't see anything on there about filters or anything.

I'm not sure how you could have missed this:

"This new model no longer requires an optional dimming filter kit for adjusting its light output. We have devised a simple and permanent rotating mechanical baffle tube that is included with this model. Once the light is installed behind the TV and turned on, just rotating the baffle tube will adjust how much light is reflecting off the wall. This method allows for continuous variable dimming."

I just wanted something that enhanced my viewing

The tutorials and test signals on those DVDs have helped innumerable consumers greatly enhance their viewing pleasure and comfort. They are also available for rent from some local video stores, Netflix and Blockbuster.com.

I'm not sure how you could have missed this:

"This new model no longer requires an optional dimming filter kit for adjusting its light output. We have devised a simple and permanent rotating mechanical baffle tube that is included with this model. Once the light is installed behind the TV and turned on, just rotating the baffle tube will adjust how much light is reflecting off the wall. This method allows for continuous variable dimming."



The tutorials and test signals on those DVDs have helped innumerable consumers greatly enhance their viewing pleasure and comfort. They are also available for rent from some local video stores, Netflix and Blockbuster.com.

Thank you GAB, after I posted I did read that about the baffle. Sorry about that. I will look into the videos.

Now another question I have, will the light still show behind my stand since I can adjust its reflection? I hate seeing my gear and the mess of wires I have yet to tidy up. I do plan to clean the mess up soon though :)

Thanks for all your help, I will be ordering ASAP. Hope they are not back-ordered too long :(

Now another question I have, will the light still show behind my stand since I can adjust its reflection? I hate seeing my gear and the mess of wires I have yet to tidy up. I do plan to clean the mess up soon though

You will still see some light behind the stand. Light is a bit hard to corral. I would suggest hanging a piece of black fabric off the back of your stand.

Hope they are not back-ordered too long

We should start shipping again by Wednesday, the 25th.

Hey everyone, I just came across this thread and love the idea. I was wondering if anyone has pics of their set-up with backlighting behind a wall mounted tv? I'll continue to search the forums, and do some more reading to see if I can find any myself. But if you have any, could you please post them, and tell me how you went about getting it right. I only have about 2 1/2" at the most between the tv and wall. Also my tv is 55" wide, and 33" tall, so I'm also wondering how many lights would it take. One more thing, my walls are a taupe color, so, they're very neutral. Thanks in advance!

I am totally new to this backlighting so please bear with me. I have a samsung 42" plasma (model hp-t4254) with about 130 hours on it now. It is sitting on a Bush stand with TV approximately 15" away from a white wall. My PQ is very good now, but would like it even better. Can anyone tell me exactly what I would need for backlighting success.

Also, I am misunderstanding what to do with the backlight. If I turn my lights off completely and then turn on the backlight to use the DVE disk, what do I do during the day. Turn off the Backlight?

I am totally new to this backlighting so please bear with me. I have a samsung 42" plasma (model hp-t4254) with about 130 hours on it now. It is sitting on a Bush stand with TV approximately 15" away from a white wall. My PQ is very good now, but would like it even better. Can anyone tell me exactly what I would need for backlighting success.

Also, I am misunderstanding what to do with the backlight. If I turn my lights off completely and then turn on the backlight to use the DVE disk, what do I do during the day. Turn off the Backlight?


I'm also new to this backlighting stuff..

I recently got my first HDTV....a 47" Vizio Plasma...very pleased with the PQ...however I find myself feeling abit of eye strain after watching it for 2 hours or so. I never really felt this with my prior 32" normal tube tv using this same room setup...so im guessing its being pronounced more with the new TV.

My room is very dark at night...which is when I watch most my TV...

So i went researching...and found this thread.

I tried putting a little 13" florescent light behind my tv..not sure the stats of the bulp...but i think its around 3000k or so. the light was not too bright...but given the makeup of my entertainment center light was going everywhere...under the TV...to the ceiling...along the back wall....didnt like it...

I am assuming what is desired is a soft "glow" on the wall just behind the TV...not all around it?

I've done some more looking around, and now I find myself wondering if I should just buy one of the fixtures at HD or lowe's, and buy the bulbs from Cinema quest. Of course it would be easier to buy everything from CQ. But the way I tallied up everything, it would cost me almost $200 (plus shipping), if I bought everything from CQ. If I bought the fixtures from HD, it would cost $60 for the fixtures, and the matching bulbs from CQ, would cost about $50 (plus shipping). I'm trying to create a backlight that covers my 55" plasma that is actually 60" wide, and 33" tall.

I am totally new to this backlighting so please bear with me. I have a samsung 42" plasma (model hp-t4254) with about 130 hours on it now. It is sitting on a Bush stand with TV approximately 15" away from a white wall. My PQ is very good now, but would like it even better. Can anyone tell me exactly what I would need for backlighting success.

Also, I am misunderstanding what to do with the backlight. If I turn my lights off completely and then turn on the backlight to use the DVE disk, what do I do during the day. Turn off the Backlight?

A single 6500K fluorescent would be the ticket for your setup. Use the DVE disc to adjust your picture settings for dark room viewing, then adjust the backlight to match the backlight level test pattern. Bias lighting is for dark room viewing only.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I am assuming what is desired is a soft "glow" on the wall just behind the TV...not all around it?

The illumination will go where it will, unless you block it with an obstruction. Our Ideal-Lume models include a rotating mechanical baffle tube installed over the fluorescent tube. This can serve to dim the light output but also provide some degree of aiming of the illumination. However, once the illumination excapes from the lamp, it spreads out naturally.

The illumination will go where it will, unless you block it with an obstruction. Our Ideal-Lume models include a rotating mechanical baffle tube installed over the fluorescent tube. This can serve to dim the light output but also provide some degree of aiming of the illumination. However, once the illumination excapes from the lamp, it spreads out naturally.


Thanks,

Currently my setup has 2 audio tower and a stand between them for the TV...TV sits about 1.5 feet from the wall but ive got some room to move it abit futher or more closer to the wall.

Im gonna get a bridge to go across the two towers which should block the light from going to the ceiling...thats the part thats bugging me now cause it ends up lighting more of the room than I care.

Ive also got some space..about inch or so underneath the tv around its stand that i probably need to block somehow.

I think alot of my problem now is that i just have the light sitting on the stand behind the tv instead of on the back of the tv...so can really see the light from underneath the tv. And im not even sure what the specs are on the bulp..like i said..this was just something I had in the closet laying around and decided to play around with it.

I was looking at your products and think the Ideal-Lume Standard should fit my needs? My TV is 47inch LCD.

and think the Ideal-Lume Standard should fit my needs? My TV is 47inch LCD.

Yes.

Yes.


Placed my order yesterday :)

Any discount for AVS forum members on the Ideal lume lights?

Our margins are already minimal and we've absorbed several cost increases without raising our pricing over the last year.

ALAN.....

I picked up your lite last week and my WIFE an I are really enjoying it. Must keep the spouse happy,she had her doubts but it really makes viewing a pleasure. It's also nice as an accent lite when the TV is off. Well worth the price.

ALAN.....

I picked up your lite last week and my WIFE an I are really enjoying it. Must keep the spouse happy,she had her doubts but it really makes viewing a pleasure. It's also nice as an accent lite when the TV is off. Well worth the price.

So where was the biggest improvement in viewing pleasure? Did it improve the perceived black levels or was it an eye fatigue issue? I am really curios as I have the same tv set as you and am considering one of these lights myself. Mostly concerned with the impact on perceived black levels. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
cheers

SMPTE's human factors work, from which 6500K bias lighting is taken, actually concentrated more on color perception than black level or eyestrain. Here are some links that dramatically demonstrate how ambient lighting and surrounding surface colors in the room can cause us to think we see darker shades and/or colors that aren't really in the image.

http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/illusions.htm (Note particularly the "Colour perception" and "Colour perception 2" demonstrations.)

http://www.lottolab.org/ (enter the "lab," click the "Illusions" button and note particularly the "Brightness" demonstrations.)

Professional monitor environments, where critical image analysis is conducted for mastering video programs, use tightly controlled lighting and neutral surfaces surrounding the display. The demonstrations above make very clear the importance of incorporating similar room conditions if image fidelity is desired. This material also makes abundantly clear how destructive to image fidelity the Philips Ambilight colored light features really are.

Human visual perception is seldom sufficiently understood when consumer and many professional display systems are designed and implemented. Since our human vision is so adaptive, we can think we perceive a "natural looking" image but actually not, if viewing environment conditions are incorrect. The demonstration material at the links above should provide considerable practical reinforcement for folks who have a hard time being persuaded by the theory alone or decades of professional practice.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

paradigm20's,

Yea......what he said. I really think first: color is enhanced quite a bit to me. Also eye strain relief is a huge plus, it just makes viewing movies and all programming a pleasure. I did try another 6500k lite but really like the baffle and the ability to adjust the amount of lite on Alan's product better. That being said I am still in Break-in mode (had to take first 1140 back) so after I calibrate and adjust using filters it will be even better, I'm sure. If you have an 1140 , I just used the included velcro and stuck it to the top of the stand posts, if you used the stand. My walls are painted taupe #4, a nice neutral color and again it is a nice look even when the tv is off. Hope I answered your question. Oh yea, I can't really say blacks are enhanced as others have suggested. I like the 1140's blacks.

I also tried "bright white" rope lite from HoDo first but it was too dim and mostly too yellow in comparison to me. I have seen some LED rope lites but it is cost prohibitive.

will this back lighting work on an LCD flat panel TV like the 52xbr3? about 12" from the wall, but the wall is a dark green, would I have to paint my wall a lighter color?

will this back lighting work on an LCD flat panel TV like the 52xbr3?
Yes.
the wall is a dark green, would I have to paint my wall a lighter color?
It depends on how dark. You could start with one and add another if it proves insufficient. A neutral color of gray would be best, especially since our vision is most sensitive to green. Vivid colors surrounding a TV will skew your color perception of the image on the screen. This is aptly demonstrated at the links in my previous post.

hamsamish09 and GeorgeAB

Thank you both for the informative and in depth responses. Guess I should work on my wall color issue first. It is definately not neutral! lol

I went real low tech because I have no more "wife technology capital" to spend right now. I bought a $10 lamp from Wally world (no shade) and a 6500K 20 w CF Bulb.

I just placed it behind my LCD and it really makes a difference. I have white walls behind my TV, which sits in an entertainment center. The light emanates from behind the LCD and creates a more pleasureable viewing experience. It glows with a "whiteish" light from behind and relieves eye strain big time. It also seems to make the piture more appealing. It's hard to say just how, but everything seems more fresh and pops a tad more.

Now with a proper setup like Lumelight, and teh proper paint and positioning, it would rock!

Just what I did was well worth it and a cheap effective way to improve the visual experience.

Definately worth it nomatter what level you take it to.

After finding this thread I went to Wally World and got a 18" Florescent light and replace the lamp with the Daylight bulb. I velcro'ed it in back of set. We really like watch movies with this light on. Only problem is that it show all the defects in the wall. I need to put something on the wall behind.

GeorgeAB (& others),

First off, thanks for many informative avs posts for achieving ideal viewing. I currently own your Ideal-Lume standard light, & it has helped greatly to provide a superior tv/ movie watching experience.

We just purchased another house, & I have a new viewing environment to adjust. Currently, the existing 11’ w x 8’ h wall for the plasma display has a painted satin tan brick w/ a semi-gloss white full length x 3” thk. mantle (54” above floor). There is a fireplace on the right side w/ a black fire screen.

I’m looking to mount our plasma either above or below the mantle. Current plasma is a Panny 37”, but may replace w/ Pioneer 50”.

I will paint the brick wall a neutral gray for better viewing (& to match up w/ a blue/green paint on the other wall surfaces). Initially we chose a Behr Pewter Gray, but it has way too much blue to my wife’s & my liking. So we are either going to alter the gray paint we purchased, or buy new.

Any suggestions on making these conditions better than proposed?

Thanks for any & all input.

Edit: ps, I'm getting the newest DVE disk that includes HD DVD settings this week to aid in properly adjusting lighting conditions.

rhcorolla,

I'm excited about early reports of the new Panny 750 series plasmas. They are promising much more accurate color than any previous plasmas. The red and blue primaries are right at Rec701 spec and the green is closer than any plasma Gary Merson has seen to date.

Keep in mind that it's much easier to achieve an accurate grayscale, which is from black to white, even if the color primaries are off. However, as one moves out from the center of color space, away from the grayscale, the more important it becomes to have correct color primaries. As a given color in the picture becomes more saturated in color space, the less accurate it becomes when the primaries are off.

There are very few consumer displays on the market that can do correct saturated colors. Image fidelity seems to always take the back seat for manufacturers. They are more concerned about peak brightness, ridiculous and unrealistic contrast claims, cartoonish colors, thin cabinets, than they are image fidelity. Kudos to Panasonic for endeavoring to deliver a more accurate picture!

Above or below the mantle? Keep in mind that SMPTE's human factors research determined that the most comfortable vertical viewing angle for extended periods is 15 degrees below horizon. The further you move away from that, the less comfortable the viewing experience will be. That's why you may have seen some computer desks designed with the monitor recessed below the desk surface.

You could also consider splitting the mantle and framing the TV with matching wood trim. This could allow for all the cables to run hidden inside a hollow mantle structure, from the side walls to the TV. Just a thought.

Have you considered two contrasting shades of gray, one above the mantle and the other below? You would be interested in the new sticky thread in the calibration section of the forum. It's titled, "How Viewing Environment Conditions Can Corrupt Or Enhance Your Calibration." http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George, thanks for the link to that thread...very informative. Yes, it is an exciting time for plasma video tech, and those Panny 750 series look sweet. Also, I can't wait for Gary Merson to get his hands on the upcoming 1080p 8G 60" Pionner Elite, which looks to be even another leap in PQ. It just keeps getting better & better!:D

GeorgeAB,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have been religiously reading the Gary Merson avs 1st review thread re: the 50" Panny 750. I look forward to seeing this plasma AND the 8G Pioneer displays when they become available to consumers.

I discussed prior w/ my wife the “cutting a section out of the mantle” option & integrating a tasteful plasma frame. Her preference is to work around the existing mantle which I can understand (resale considerations & all).

Thanks for the 15% below horizontal reference. I do prefer the plasma below the mantle as I currently have a 24” h stand arrangement.

The 2 shades of gray option is very interesting. I’ll run that one by the wife tonight when we look at gray paint chips .

If the plasma was only a couple inches below the 8.5” dp. mantle & 6" from back of plasma to brick wall, would that cause any problems w/ the standard Ideal-Lume back light I currently have centered on the back of plasma?

rhcorolla,

I would say, wait and try it out. If you need to, you could order a second light to get better light spread around the TV. The mantle will, of course, block the light from spreading out upward.

GeorgAB,
I just completed breakin on a 58" panasonic plasma and wanted to know which backlighting kit you recommend for a 58".

:confused:

How is your plasma mounted?
What color is the wall behind it?

Its mounted on a salamander synergy triple stand. The wall is beige color. I can post a pic l8ter if that would help.

The Ideal-Lume Standard model should suffice. That large of a TV might require removing the rotating mechanical baffle tube to provide more illumination and light spread. The only way to tell for sure is to experiment with various placement locations and adjustments. Much depends also upon how dark the wall color is.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The Ideal-Lume Standard model should suffice. That large of a TV might require removing the rotating mechanical baffle tube to provide more illumination and light spread. The only way to tell for sure is to experiment with various placement locations and adjustments. Much depends also upon how dark the wall color is.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I have this on my 6070, works AWESOME. Loved the difference, use it every night.

Great thread

I have a Samsung HLT5676, the dlp model. The tv is great but then iread this thread and found that i can optimize my experience. My walls are a very light cranberry type color. Actually very similar to the color of the background/border used in this thread.


Any suggestions?

Yes, by all means read this "sticky" thread in the 'Display Calibration' section of the forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430

Hi all
I have a question, that I hope George will answer.
I plan to get a ideal-lume for my HT room in progress.

This is my setup.
I will have a 52" sony XBR2 LCD, on a Sonus articulating arm.
Wall will be painted yellow, ceiling white, with a mirrored closet door close by, on one side.

Is one light enough? I know I could buy one, and try it, but if I need it, I would prefer to buy the panelight, and be done with it.

Should I mount on the TV, or on the wall. I think my arm extends up to 2 feet.

Do I need filter correction for my yellow walls? If so, where would I get it?

Sorry if these questions have been answered somewhere in this thread, I did not read through all this.


Randy

The Ideal-Lume Standard will suffice, unless you watch the TV tight against the wall. You wouldn't get much light spread in that instance, which is why we developed the Panelight model for wall-mounted flat TVs. Mount the bias lighting on the back of the TV. The way to make the wall look less yellow would be to experiment with blue filters. You can get theatrical gels from a theatrical supply house. I recommend that you also review the thread I supplied the link for in my last post. The wall will still be yellow when you watch the TV with the room lighting on.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hey George, I didn't know anyone from your company actually visited this forum. Just wanted to let you know I love your product. It makes all the difference in the world. I was VERY skeptical this would do anything, I couldn't see how. But its so obvious. Eye strain alone is reduced instantly. And it seems to enhance the blacks. Nice product, thanks!!!

You're welcome. Advocating imaging science and display standards always results in a better viewing experience.

i just purchased these today and can not wait to install them. Im going to be using them on my JVC 70inch fh96 display. I get alittle eyestrain but i mainly am getting these to help increase my overall black level and contrast. Any tips on where to install these? sides , top bottom , aiming at wall , or aiming from the wall toward the back of the TV. Also my only drawback is my wall color my girlfriend picked out. Its a very light orange color. Is this wall color going to hurt my performnace alot? any recommendations besides painted it , because shell kill me if i do. thanx Chris

I'd just do the two sides.

Is this wall color going to hurt my performnace alot?

That's a question best answered by your girlfriend.

If you also want to know if the wall color will affect the TV's performance, read this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . Then show your girlfriend the color perception demonstrations from the links and ask her if she understands the value in providing a neutral colored area surrounding the TV picture.

Bias lighting should illuminate the wall surface behind the TV when viewing the picture in a darkened room. The best results for enhancement of black level perception in the image are obtained by completely surrounding the image with illumination. This might require more lights in your case, with such a large TV.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Well for those that are wondering about the Cinemaquest light kit,all i can say is WOW,product came double boxed and stryafoam packed to the hilt.installed 2 on my 58px60u ,vertical mount themabout 2" in and played with the diffuser for about 5 minutes,it gave the PDP a floating look to it with the light nicely refection on the walls around the whole tv almost evenly,i cant wait to correctly set the lighting with my Calibration disc,I was in sheer pleasure watching my first DVD with the family on the new 58px60ua,and the lights were the icing on the cake,2 lights were plenty for this size PDP, im glad i did not waste any trips to Home Depot,trying to put together something similar,itsjust not worth the hassle,i don't think you can buy the bulbs there,and thirdly the diffusers made all the adjustment hassle free. thanks for a great product,i give it a thumbs up(LOL) and the wife loved it too,no eyestrain,fatigue,i cant comment on the picture effect yet still waiting to calibrate my Panny,but it did look dam good.

thanks for a great product,i give it a thumbs up(LOL) and the wife loved it too,no eyestrain,fatigue

I'm pleased you found our product beneficial. The science of imaging correctly implemented triumphs again!

Hi George, I just had my pioneer pdp5080hd isf calibrated by UMR, and would like to know what ideal lume product would work for me. My tv is sitting on a salamander twin30 stand about 24 inches from the wall. The wall is painted soft white. This tv has great blacks and color, but watching alot at night with no lights is sometimes hurting my eyes. I want to use a back light that is not gonna degrade my near perfect image. Thanks

The Ideal-Lume Standard model will be sufficient. It sounds like your wall color will be truly neutral so you could also opt for the Pro model. If your budget allows, it's the current state of the art in true D65 ambient lighting.

We just sent one to Deluxe Digital Studios. They are the digital arm of the outfit you see at the end of movie credits when they say, "color by Deluxe."

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hey George,

I own a Vizio VX37L10A, which is a 37'' LCD TV. Soon after getting it, I started getting weird headaches while watching it (And even for a while afterwards, sometimes) and I'm really starting to blame the room lighting, and the fact that I was still watching the set on display settings, with a very high backlight setting. I calibrated the set with AVIA at the backlight set at 10 (it was at 90), and setting the color to warm, and it seemed to help.

I have very little lighting in the basement where my TV is--no natural light, just fluorescent light above me (which I've been keeping off) and a small lamp with two bulbs off to the left side.

Would one of the Ideal-Lume lights be a good idea in this type of situation, and would it be sufficient lighting in a room with no other sources of light? The TV is not mounted, and has roughly a foot and a half of space before it hits the wall, which is wood-colored with black stripes. I'll see about getting pictures if necessary.

Thanks!

This is not meant as a joke or insult or anything, but have you had your eyes checked lately? Sometimes that can be a cause of headaches or eye pain, especially where LCD technology is involved.

Bias lighting is ALWAYS appropriate for such a small TV when viewed in a darkened room. If you understand the fundamental human factors principles involved, the solution is simple and clear. The Ideal-Lume Standard model would be a suitable choice.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

This is not meant as a joke or insult or anything, but have you had your eyes checked lately? Sometimes that can be a cause of headaches or eye pain, especially where LCD technology is involved.

I'm not sure I understand your post because if there is one type of display that can be singled out that is more likely to cause eyestrain & headaches than all others, it would be LCD because of their inherent brightness levels.

....if there is one type of display that can be singled out that is more likely to cause eyestrain & headaches than all others, it would be LCD because of their inherent brightness levels.That's sort of what I was saying, but I wasn't specifically attributing the headaches directly to the LCD as much as I was saying that certain pre-existing eye conditions can make you more susceptible to it.

I know someone who's had that problem, and they're now getting LASIK surgery to "reshape" their eyeballs, and the problem has improved in the one eye that they've had done so far :).

I'm not sure I understand your post because if there is one type of display that can be singled out that is more likely to cause eyestrain & headaches than all others, it would be LCD because of their inherent brightness levels.

Plasma is hard on the eyes too. Atleast the vizio is. My rear-projection lcd is easy on the eyes. Pq is not as good though.

Help me out here, I have a Sony SXRD 50a2000, I have been having a lot of eye strain playing my ps3 at night. I have a burgundy red wall behind the TV. Should I get 1 ideallume light or should I get 2? I think 1 would probably be ok, should I mount it on the center of the back of my TV? FYI my eyes are medically ok....

First of all, I would strongly recommend that you familiarize yourself with this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . Pay particular attention to the links in the initial post.

One bias light should suffice, unless the color of your wall is especially dark. Your suggested mounting location is usually the best, but some experimentation may be necessary to get the best light spread on the wall. You didn't mention how far out from the wall the back of the TV is. An installation tips sheet comes with the product or you can download a PDF of the document from the Ideal-Lume section of our web site: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lumesb.htm .

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

First of all, I would strongly recommend that you familiarize yourself with this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . Pay particular attention to the links in the initial post.

One bias light should suffice, unless the color of your wall is especially dark. Your suggested mounting location is usually the best, but some experimentation may be necessary to get the best light spread on the wall. You didn't mention how far out from the wall the back of the TV is. An installation tips sheet comes with the product or you can download a PDF of the document from the Ideal-Lume section of our web site: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lumesb.htm .

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks i will checkout the thread, my tv is about 1ft away from my wall which is dark burgundy color...

I am due to get my eyes checked, but I already wear frames, and as of last check, have no eye conditions. Just because turning down the TV's own backlight has helped quite a bit (although it's still a bit hard on the eyes after a while), I'm prone to thinking the combination of the smaller TV and the lack of outside light is a large source of problem. I'll be checking out this solution and others.

Thanks.

Hello,

I am looking to BIAS light my new television. I have read the color links in previous posts and am a bit leery about my walls being an Olive color. What would you suggest the best option if for my 50" Plasma that is wall mounted and looks like this:

http://www.ingoweigold.com/mediagallery/mediaobjects/disp/f/f_familyroom2.jpg

I would suggest painting just the area behind the TV a medium shade of gray with some random black faux paint pattern (to accent your black furniture) from floor to ceiling. You could go only as wide as the window on the right and an equal distance on the left, rather than paint the whole wall behind the TV. If you are skilled enough, you could also pick up the geometric pattern that is in the rug on the floor, but use various shades of gray and black instead of the brown colors in the carpet. Such a pattern would really tie the wall area into the design scheme in the room. That would give you a neutral backdrop behind and around the TV. It appears the TV is wall-mounted, so the Ideal-Lume Panelight model would be appropriate.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

OK, I think I'm getting loopy reading all this info and I don't think this question was asked. This may be a stupid question . . . Is there any benefit to adding say the standard light behind my audio/video cabinet where only the bottom of the wall between my panel and stand will be illuminated?

Thanks!

http://www.reprovideo.com/pma_images/new_tube.jpg

You could start with that implementation and it would provide some of the benefit. I would recommend the Panelight model with two lights for placement behind the wall-mounted TV. That implementation would surround more of the image. Keep in mind the primary objective: to provide some low level, correctly colored, supplemental illumination, within your field of view, from behind the display, while watching the picture. The best effect typically necessitates some experimentation. Use duct tape for temporary attachment until you're persuaded the location is the best.

I would like to experiment more but the trade-off for me is aesthetics. I'm not sure how I would hide the cord in my application and have an easy time controlling when the lights are on or off. Thanks!

Couldn't you plug it into the outlet powering the TV?

I could but what about switching? I'm sure it was covered in this thread but my head was ready to explode. I'm thinking I need to peruse your site more carefully. :)

The information on my site is much more concise, although hardly brief. At least you won't have to trudge through questions and such.

OK, so I've settled on the Panelight now that I understand that there is a toggle switch that controls both lights. So my plan is to install them on the outer edge of my 50" (left and right side for access to the switch) and plug them into the outlet behind the TV. I'm ordering today. Thanks, George!

Edit:

I ordered it this morning. Can't wait to get it. :)

i'm deciding on weather or not i need to have light behind my display

in the room i'm in i don't think its nessasary...

is this recommended no matter what or are there exceptions with certain room conditions?

Vidpro,

OK, so I've settled on the Panelight now that I understand that there is a toggle switch that controls both lights.

Semantics is such a challenge sometimes. I want to make sure we're both on the same page with this issue. This is the explanation from the Panelight product description:

"Two 1 meter linking cables are included for connecting the two fixtures together. This allows both lights to be powered from just one fixture. Only one light needs to be plugged into a power outlet. Each of the two fixtures are independently controlled by their own side-mounted toggle switch, even when they are linked together."

I should probably add even more detail for increased clarity. Even when the two fixtures are linked together, the first toggle switch in the chain will not control the second fixture. Power is routed to the second fixture in parallel, not series. Each fixture is always controlled by its own toggle switch, even if linked to another.

If this is not what you understood, you may cancel your order or return it for a refund. The only way to turn all linked fixtures on and off at the same time is by using a switched outlet or remote power switch placed between the linked lights and the power outlet. This is why we offer several such solutions in our store.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Big Pauly,

is this recommended no matter what or are there exceptions with certain room conditions?

Bias lighting is recommeded for viewing TVs in the dark. Please study the information on my web site: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm . It's much easier to correctly apply this technique in any installation once the fundamental imaging science principles are understood.

Vidpro,



Semantics is such a challenge sometimes. I want to make sure we're both on the same page with this issue. This is the explanation from the Panelight product description:

"Two 1 meter linking cables are included for connecting the two fixtures together. This allows both lights to be powered from just one fixture. Only one light needs to be plugged into a power outlet. Each of the two fixtures are independently controlled by their own side-mounted toggle switch, even when they are linked together."

I should probably add even more detail for increased clarity. Even when the two fixtures are linked together, the first toggle switch in the chain will not control the second fixture. Power is routed to the second fixture in parallel, not series. Each fixture is always controlled by its own toggle switch, even if linked to another.

If this is not what you understood, you may cancel your order or return it for a refund. The only way to turn all linked fixtures on and off at the same time is by using a switched outlet or remote power switch placed between the linked lights and the power outlet. This is why we offer several such solutions in our store.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

After reading the description on your site again before I headed out I realized that's what it meant. That works for me since the left and right side is easily accessible.

So when do you think I'll have the unit, tomorrow? J/k. ;)

Big Pauly,



Bias lighting is recommeded for viewing TVs in the dark. Please study the information on my web site: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm . It's much easier to correctly apply this technique in any installation once the fundamental imaging science principles are understood.

i think i got it George....before and after reading

i understand that having some light in the room is good for your eyes...

i just don't know if i fully believe that it has to be a light omitting exactly 6500 kelvin...how are my eyes going to notice a difference of what type of light it is thats behind the display?

in theory, your eyes just need some sort of other light for your brain to fixate on so you dont get the eye strain (which i don't get at all anyways)

it seems like waht matters most is the depth perception thing of having the light shine on the wall behind the screen making the display pop out more..

am i completely lost here?

i understand that having some light in the room is good for your eyes...

TV viewing environment conditions have a profound effect upon how we perceive the image on the screen. The eye strain issue is the part that most people find immediately understandable.

i just don't know if i fully believe that it has to be a light omitting exactly 6500 kelvin...how are my eyes going to notice a difference of what type of light it is thats behind the display?


Most of SMPTE's human factors work regarding viewing environment conditions focused on preserving accurate color perception. Perhaps you will be persuaded by reviewing the initial post in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . Take the time to review the links in the post.

in theory, your eyes just need some sort of other light for your brain to fixate on so you dont get the eye strain (which i don't get at all anyways)


The eye strain and viewing fatigue issues have more to do with the physiology of our eyes. How our brain interprets what our eyes see has more to do with our perception of the image on the screen.

it seems like waht matters most is the depth perception thing of having the light shine on the wall behind the screen making the display pop out more..

This is only part of the equation and relates to avoiding viewing fatigue. What matters most is your perception of the image on the TV screen.

am i completely lost here?

No. I didn't understand much of this stuff when I was first exposed to it either. What I have published is the result of over 15 years of studying the theory and practicing the principles. This isn't rocket science but it is imaging science that has been proven for decades and routinely applied by imaging industry experts and program post production professionals.

Professional practice can be applied to home viewing environments to achieve the same benefits. Professionals adhere to these principles to preserve image fidelity and enhance viewing comfort. If image fidelity and viewing comfort are of value to you, it should be worthwhile to incorporate these principles in your home entertainment system.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

okay George, i'm sold...

the only thing i'm hesitant about is sticking the light on the back on my plasma...

my display gets pretty hot and i'm a little worried about having something hanging off the back of it..

how exactly does the light fix itself to the back....am i going to have to purchase extra stuff to mount it on the back of the display?

also, this light isn't exactly cheap, plus i'm in canada....is shipping going to be an arm and a leg?

okay George, i'm sold...

the only thing i'm hesitant about is sticking the light on the back on my plasma...

my display gets pretty hot and i'm a little worried about having something hanging off the back of it..

how exactly does the light fix itself to the back....am i going to have to purchase extra stuff to mount it on the back of the display?

also, this light isn't exactly cheap, plus i'm in canada....is shipping going to be an arm and a leg?

Bias lighting is recommeded for viewing TVs in the dark. Please study the information on my web site: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm . It's much easier to correctly apply this technique in any installation once the fundamental imaging science principles are understood.

A big thanks to GeorgeAB! Finally got my TV installed, (after being in storage for 3 months), and got the Bias lighting on my 60" plasma. Some pics.

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/fireplace.jpg

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_flash.JPG

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_bias_far.JPG

In this pic, I had the camera sitting on the floor for a differnt angle.
http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_bias_far_angle.jpg

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_bias_close.JPG

Big Pauly,

Please send an e-mail to my company with any questions about ordering products. I'm trying to keep my participation in this thread more for education about theory, technologies and solutions than customer correspondence.

okay George, i'm sold...

the only thing i'm hesitant about is sticking the light on the back on my plasma...

my display gets pretty hot and i'm a little worried about having something hanging off the back of it..

how exactly does the light fix itself to the back....am i going to have to purchase extra stuff to mount it on the back of the display?

also, this light isn't exactly cheap, plus i'm in canada....is shipping going to be an arm and a leg?

Since George doesn't want to get in trouble for posting I'll post.

I hung his light on the back of my plasma. Been there for awhile, no problems. His instructions come with many ideas for how to hang it. What we did was use a few pieces of thread from the sewing box. Wrapped it around one of the screws on the back of the plasma (there are like DOZENS of screws) and hung the light from that. It took about 5 minutes. Then the light is hanging in the middle of the TV. You can adjust the baffle on the light to get the light shinning the way you want.

Hope that helps.

Lights installed. Thanks, GeorgeAB for the quick shipment!

They are a lot dimmer than my crappy photography skills will show. They look great!

http://www.reprovideo.com/pma_images/tube_lights.jpg

Big Pauly,

Please send an e-mail to my company with any questions about ordering products. I'm trying to keep my participation in this thread more for education about theory, technologies and solutions than customer correspondence.



George please PM me a link to your company's website... thanks.

Done.

GeorgeAB

I have a few questions about your lighting products.

#1 I am having my tv calibrated on 09/20 if I get this lighting AFTER I get the calibration will this affect the picture?

#2 I have a Pioneer PDP-5080HD that is sitting on the stand that is provided with the TV, I have a white wall behind the TV, and the tv sits about 1 1/2 - 2 feet away from the wall which product is the best solution for my situation?

#3 Do you have suggestions how this would be 'installed' for my tv?

Thanks!

#1 I am having my tv calibrated on 09/20 if I get this lighting AFTER I get the calibration will this affect the picture?

I'll assume you mean in a bad way. The answer would be, no. Properly implemented back lighting only positively affects your perception of the calibrated image and promotes viewing comfort. Your calibrator should adjust the set for dark viewing conditions. The technician would probably prefer that you had the bias light in place already, or available for him to install and adjust.
#2 I have a Pioneer PDP-5080HD that is sitting on the stand that is provided with the TV, I have a white wall behind the TV, and the tv sits about 1 1/2 - 2 feet away from the wall which product is the best solution for my situation?

Either the Pro or the Standard model.
#3 Do you have suggestions how this would be 'installed' for my tv?

Installation tips come with the product. I can't see your TV or your installation, so it's difficult for me to suggest anything specific. There are a variety of options provided with the mounting hardware kit.

Thanks for the info GeorgeAB!

Hey George and the rest,

Got my Ideal-Lume Standard a few days ago. Had some issues with the velcro (my own issues, I'm a moron), but now it seems to be staying on and working just fine. I'm still experiencing some eye strain, however, but I'm really thinking it's a problem outside the normal spectrum of things and will be getting checked out.

I was a bit confused with how you were supposed to calibrate the light with the AVIA pattern. I just kind of winged it and started putting more or less light, to see what looked better. Being able to turn the brightness and contract down and still being able to see the darker images clearly is what I believe truly makes the picture better through this light, and it is nice.

I'm a bit disappointed that the light didn't fix all my personal issues with my system, but the light does its job well, it's not its' fault.

Thanks for the support, George!

Hello:

Great thread. Back when I had my plasma calibrated the tech mentioned bias lights but I never got around to getting them (until now).

I do have one question that is puzzling me - It appears from the thread and the material that it is a given that bias light help in viewing a tv/movie picture in a dark environment. However, I don't see anyone discussing or using bias lights in what is usually the darkest environment - a home theater room with a screen and projector.

Are bias lights helpful if mounted behind a projection screen? Or is there something about a projector setup that makes it different from an LCD/Plasma and makes bias lights useless?

Splotto

is there something about a projector setup that makes it different from an LCD/Plasma and makes bias lights useless?


Large projection screens are typically not so bright, plus they more frequently occupy a larger portion of one's field of view. Commercial cinema screens are far less bright than TVs (~8-10 ftL. vs. ~30 ftL. or usually much greater). Some people still find large images fatiguing if exceptionally bright.

George:

I recently purchased a Pioneer 5010, 50" plasma and am interested in purchasing some bias lighting. Currently, I'm trying to decide between the Panelight and the Standard models. My concern with the Standard model is the dispersion I'll get with the distance the panel is from the wall.

I have the plasma mounted on a Sanus PFFT2B, link here:

http://www.sanus.com/us/en/products/ProductDetails/line/AVFoundations/pcat/flatPanel/modelCode/PFFP2/layout/layout/.

The stand is 5" from the wall and the back of the TV is 11.5" inches from the wall. The walls are beige colored.

Given this setup would you recommend the Panelight or the Standard?

Thanks in advance!

- dale

It sounds like the Panelight will end up giving you the best effect.

Style over substance!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=902024

I knew I wanted to do bias lighting and after reading this thread, I decided to go with the Ideal-Lume Standard for my SXRD. My question is, is it safe to leave the light switch set to "on" and plug and un-plug it whenever I want to turn the light on? I don't have any remote solutions to control it yet.

Thanks.

That should work without any problems.

Ok so I got bias lighting from george... :)

I have video essentials but I'm not sure how to properly set the lighting. Can anyone explain it to me? You gotta dumb it down for me though! hehe

Put the light behind the TV.
Turn the room lighting off.
Set the TV picture controls for dark room viewing (turn the contrast and brightness down).
Go to the "Reference for maximum ambient light" test pattern and display it on the TV screen (Title 12, Chapter 16).
Turn on the bias light.
Adjust the output of the light until the reflected light on the wall looks about the same level of brightness as the gray window in the middle of the test pattern.

Hey fanerman, how did this work out for you? i have the 50a2000 and want to do this?


I knew I wanted to do bias lighting and after reading this thread, I decided to go with the Ideal-Lume Standard for my SXRD. My question is, is it safe to leave the light switch set to "on" and plug and un-plug it whenever I want to turn the light on? I don't have any remote solutions to control it yet.

Thanks.

Hey fanerman, how did this work out for you? i have the 50a2000 and want to do this?

I haven't received the light yet but I'll let you know when I get to try it out.

I haven't received the light yet but I'll let you know when I get to try it out.


Thanks, i am pretty much sold on this, i have a cheap 6000K bulb in lamp behind my tv now, and when i am watching TV, it appears to be almost "floating" and my eyes dont get sore. But it does not pass the WAF - Wife acceptance factor, so i have to get something pretty...

Can anyone tell me if this

CinemaQuest blub (http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?storename=cinemaquestincn&DeptID=32492&ItemID=674600&detail=1)

is the same as this

F15T8 Fluorescent Light Bulbs (http://www.buylightfixtures.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=74) or THIS (https://www.bulborama.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=508)

Thanks, i am pretty much sold on this, i have a cheap 6000K bulb in lamp behind my tv now, and when i am watching TV, it appears to be almost "floating" and my eyes dont get sore. But it does not pass the WAF - Wife acceptance factor, so i have to get something pretty...

I got a chance to set it up for 2 nights (and thus 2 plugging and unpluggings) and it seems to work just fine. There's no flickering. I plug it in and the light goes on instantly, just like if I flipped the switch.

It also looks great. It definitely reduces/eliminates eye strain, and it improves the contrast, too.

Can anyone tell me if this.....is the same as this.....
The second and third vendors do not provide all the necessary performance statistics to compare the lamps you have listed. Color Rendering Index (CRI) is important. Many people complain about fluorescents because they make colors look odd. Insist on a minimum CRI of 90. If a vendor does not state the CRI, it has been my experience they are not proud of the rating and it will be in the 70s or 80s.

I was thinking of mounting some halogen lamps at the four corners of my panel for some bias lighting. Should I go with normal halogen or that long-lived halogen that costs three times the normal price?

Halogen lamps are the wrong color temperature (approx. 2800K to 4500K). Using the wrong color lighting will distort your color perception of the image on the TV screen. Please go to this link for an overview of proper bias lighting principles and implementation techniques: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm .

Halogen lamps are the wrong color temperature (approx. 2800K to 4500K). Using the wrong color lighting will distort your color perception of the image on the TV screen. Please go to this link for an overview of proper bias lighting principles and implementation techniques: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm .

No. You can't make me.

Yes I can. Look into my eyes.......:eek:

Well, I decided to go the halogen route, but I have mixed feelings with the results:

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6090/biaslr5.jpg

I think it looks good, but I couldn't see for ten minutes after watching some TV.

That's because they are the wrong temp! :)

C-l-e-v-v-v-e-r!

looks like it's not only your eyes that were washed out ! ;)

I think it looks good, but I couldn't see for ten minutes after watching some TV.
That is an awesome idea when I'm watching the shuttle launch sequence from below the propulsion point of view. Temporary blindness is acceptable for such realism! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

After reading through most of this thread I am considering buying a bunch of 6000k LED's and making a nice string of them to mount around the back of my HP-S4253 Samsung Plasma. Does this seem like a reasonable idea for a bias lighting solution? Has anyone tried it yet?

- Jon

...White LED outdoor Chirstmas lights recently hit the market, and when a neighbour of mine threw up a string, I was amazed by how bright (and cool colour-temperature wise) they were. I immediately thought of a bias lighting application.


Anyone have any experiences with the white christmas lights as bias lighting?

I know its a bit of a hack, but if it works, it works, but I wondering about if they're practical or not, brightness, hotspots, diffusion, how much they glow, etc.

Here's the ones I'm thinking about:
http://images.canadiantire.ca/media/images/products/images/Assortments/PrimaryAssortments/GardenPatio/GardenLighting/120VoltGardenLights/0523089_160_CC_541a1.jpg
Canadian Tire - Noma LED Garden String Lights - $19.99

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/a6d02aab-8b9c-4dbc-a6cc-498fb3c058cd_3.jpg
HOME ACCENTS
Home Depot -Indoor/Outdoor LED Light Set with 35 C7 White Bulbs and Green Wire - $19.99

Any advice or experience using xmas lights? Are the bigger bulbs better, or smaller? I want an overall 'halo', and I'm not sure if the small bulbs will cast much light. Also, can individual bulbs be removed?

My local Home Depot has those Hampton Bay rope lights, but they didn't look as efficient as LEDs, or is it too small a difference to be concerned?

EDIT: I realize that this thread is for more 'professional' solutions, I'm just looking for advice if anyone's already gone down the xmas light road...

thx, p.

This topic has been handled in detail earlier in the thread. Basically, white LEDs are way too blue (8500K or higher). Take a look at the solar powered LED yard lights in front of people's houses some night. They all look quite blue.

I am all for saving money and using DIY solutions when I can achieve comparable or better quality or save a substantial amount of money, but I really don't understand why there are so many questions about wanting to do this for $20 to $30 instead of the $50 to $80 that GeorgeAB offers in his non-professional line. Considering most people who would be using back-lighting probabably have a minimum of $1000 (many much more) invested in a good quality display, I just don't see the rationale behind trying to save a few bucks for a low quality solution. Maybe I am missing something here.

Murray

I totally agree with your statements, I was just looking for the reasons why typical xmas lights had been already ruled out. I tried searching earlier, but didn't get too many hits other than the earlier post by Ross that I quoted.

...still reading through all the pages, but good stuff!

thx, p.

Just ordered my Idealume Panel light today. Can't wait to get er installed. :D

I am all for saving money and using DIY solutions when I can achieve comparable or better quality or save a substantial amount of money, but I really don't understand why there are so many questions about wanting to do this for $20 to $30 instead of the $50 to $80 that GeorgeAB offers in his non-professional line. Considering most people who would be using back-lighting probabably have a minimum of $1000 (many much more) invested in a good quality display, I just don't see the rationale behind trying to save a few bucks for a low quality solution. Maybe I am missing something here.

Murray

I am guessing it is because we are hobbiest and like to try and do stuff ourselves. If the price point was $25 and the DIY price was $18, personally, I would go with the manufactured product for so many reasons. When someone is motivated to take on the task, and the savings could be $25 - $50 the motivation factor goes up.

I'm still trying to decide what route to go. I know I want Bias lighting, I just haven't figured out how I'm going to make that happen just yet.

i took all these factors into effect myself,and in all honesty you come out way ahead of things if you go with Cinemaquest products,the diffusers were the iceing on the cake,fine tuned the lite to Avia HD dvd , not having to run around and find the bulbs,also being able to plug the two together was a plus ,all the velco,rubbing swabs included,a nice package.

When someone is motivated to take on the task, and the savings could be $25 - $50 the motivation factor goes up.


I miss the days where I cared about saving $25-50...=(:(

Well, I decided to go the halogen route, but I have mixed feelings with the results:

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6090/biaslr5.jpg

I think it looks good, but I couldn't see for ten minutes after watching some TV.

Lol , thats about right when i think of bias lighting :D

I miss the days where I cared about saving $25-50...=(:(

Having an 18 month old and the posibility of another in the future causes one to think about every $.

Ok. SO I'm going to reuse my old fixture..

Now..

Where would be the cheapest place to buy a

F15, T8 6500k 90CRI+?


saving as much money as possible is very good now.. As I too, is having a little one coming., and wow.. make you realize how much money you are spending.. lol

tdrag97,

The internet will give you the most options for high CRI fluorescents. They are typically hard to find locally. The reason is, high color purity phosphor formulas are more costly to produce. These higher cost lamps are not required for most fluorescent applications, so brick & mortar retailers won't bother stocking them. Try a Google search for vendors of such products, but also don't ignore what my site offers in the way of individual T8 lamps.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Many readers of this thread have asked for a summary of some kind, that will condense its tedious and cumbersome length. I have composed a white paper that attempts to cover all the bases in a reasonably concise form. It discusses the imaging science theory and practice relating to bias lighting, includes associated viewing environment principles, as well as important human perceptual issues. Here's the link: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm .

Would my setup see any big benefit from Bias Lighting? If so - how would you recommend I go about setting it up?

http://btz.smugmug.com/photos/179171892-L.jpg

http://btz.smugmug.com/photos/179148215-L.jpg

Would my setup see any big benefit from Bias Lighting?
Only if you watch your TV in the dark, or the ambient lighting you already use at night is reflecting off of the screen, or you want to maximise color fidelity during night viewing.
If so - how would you recommend I go about setting it up?
Step 1: mount an Ideal-Lume Standard to the back of your TV.
Step 2: consider the option of a more neutral background for the area behind the TV. Perhaps gray acoustic panels in a shade used in the pattern on your couch. Your room would benefit substantially from more sound absorption. All those hard surfaces in the room must cause a lot of reverberation.

Thanks for the reply George. I do watch a fair amount of tv with only the light you see closest to the rocking chair on. It's at an angle that there is no reflection on the screen (now the one closest in the picture is a BIG troublemaker that way!).

Sadly - this a brand new remodel job - so telling my wife we need to put something different colored behind the tv will most likely cause loss of life and limb (mine). Would leaving the color on the walls alone defeat the benefits of adding an Ideal-Lume?

We are still getting used to having hardwood everywhere (it IS echoey) and may end up with an area rug in that area (although I hate the idea of covering up our beautiful new hickory floors) - we'll see.

Thank you again for your reply.

The color of your walls is nearly-neutral and could be far worse. The white paint on the windows will help with the color perception issue. Multi-purpose rooms tend to involve compromises to audio and video performance that may be unavoidable.

Multi-purpose rooms tend to involve compromises to audio and video performance that may be unavoidable.

Too true - my wife assures me that once we close in our back porch and make it a big family room - I'll be "allowed" to run amok and make a really nice Home Theater. Until then things need to look nice and not be too over the top. Once that happens the room in these pics won't even have a tv.

Thanks again.

I'm looking at getting the 1 set of the Ideal lume Panel lights for my wall mounted 42 inch flat panel but, I noticed in their image gallery that they have 4 lights attached to the panel....... is this correct for a larger flat panel or is the 1 set of 2 going to be sufficient for my set up

The install image gallery is simply photos of examples of what customers have done. The one set of two lights included in the Ideal-Lume Panelight model is sufficient for your application. You could add another set if you wanted lights on all four sides, but it's an aesthetic issue and a personal choice for your size of TV. Larger TVs are more likely to require extra sets of lights to achieve satisfying distribution of the illumination on the wall. Another situation that would require more lights is if the wall would be an unusually dark color.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I have a 70" SXRD. Can I use T5 6500K FL instesd of T8 for a lower profile light?

A T5 fluorescent lamp is 5/8 inch in diameter. The T8 lamps are 8/8 inch in diameter. Therefore, the fixtures made for them are more slender for the T5 lamps. Another benefit to the new size is that T5 fluorescents are brighter than their reduced diameter would suggest.

Will a T5 run hotter than a T8?

I don't know. How would one determine that?

George - as you can see in my pics - I have an APC H15 powerconditioner/surge protector on my system.

Before I order my Ideal Lume - I want to figure how I can control the on/off of it via my Harmony 880 Remote.

I see the extra stuff on the website for remote on/off but it all says it won't work when plugged in a surge protector.

Can you offer any suggestions? I'd really rather not plug something into the wall - I want to try to plug it into one of the many outlets on the back of my APC.

I see the extra stuff on the website for remote on/off but it all says it won't work when plugged in a surge protector.
This is not true. Please send me an e-mail on this.

Hi all. I'm about to have a wide-screen TV and surround speakers/receiver installed in my decidedly non-theater-like family room (cathedral ceiling, floor-to-ceiling windows). I spent months researching what TV to buy and, having made my decision, I thought my researching was done. Then I stumbled upon this thread! :confused:

I'd love some advice on how best to install my 50" 1080P plasma set (Samsung FPT5084). I will need to expand my niche to accommodate the set--See pic here: http://i24.tinypic.com/118klyx.jpg --wow, I've got to do some major de-cluttering of those niches! Somehow, in person they don't look so bad; :o but I digress...

I've read through a few pages of this thread and several of the links. GeorgeAB notes in his white paper that ideally the screen will be set away from the wall. I'm going to expand the width of the niche in which my current TV sits to accommodate the 50" plasma (by removing the T partition to the right). I was planning on installing a wall, set back from the edge of the niche so that I could hang the TV such that it would be flush with the edge of the niche. The installer has purchased one of those arms that can be extended, so I have the flexibility of positioning the wall upon which the TV will hang wherever I like. We had wanted to achieve the "floating" look, but thought the existing wall (29.5" deep) would look awkward as it is so deep. Given that we want the set to be flush with the edge of the niche, what would be the ideal distance from the edge for the new wall? The set is 50.8" x 29.1" x 3.7".

I was planning on painting the wall the same color as the surrounding niche (a neutral beige). The TV will fill most of the space width-wise, but there will be several inches of the wall above and below the TV. Advice on the color and distance of the wall, as well as suggested lighting would be most appreciated. Thanks!

I spent months researching what TV to buy and, having made my decision, I thought my researching was done. Then I stumbled upon this thread!
Just another example of how little is understood, valued, and/or taught about the fundamentals of human factors and video viewing environment principles. No video display system can be designed properly without these principles being addressed. Some of the issues are common sense and somewhat intuitive. Unfortunately, common sense is becoming far too uncommon, and intuition is hardly a reliable approach to imaging science or comprehensive system design. When it comes to color perception, it can be proven that the consequences of some design decisions are most definitely counter-intuitive.
Given that we want the set to be flush with the edge of the niche, what would be the ideal distance from the edge for the new wall?
Based upon your descriptions, It won't be critical. I suggest you not go too deep, so you can get maximum benefit from the extendability of the expensive mount you bought.
Advice on the color and distance of the wall, as well as suggested lighting would be most appreciated.
Keep the color the same. Use backlighting behind the TV for night viewing with the room dark.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

i have 1 question. I don´t use my TV at 6500k, for movies i use my projector at 6500k.
My tv, i only use it for Xbox360 and i don´t like how it looks at 6500k.

So my question is.. how do i know what temp lamp i should use?

i´m using on normal.. i guess it is a between 9300k and 6500k, but i´m guessing.

Your TV may be defective and/or need grayscale calibration. The XBox could be defective. Use 6500K for video backlighting.

...Keep the color the same. Use backlighting behind the TV for night viewing with the room dark.

Thanks for the reply! Any advice on the specific type of backlighting I should use?

Your TV may be defective and/or need grayscale calibration. The XBox could be defective. Use 6500K for video backlighting.
LOL.. no, it is not defective, i just don´t like the warmer setting i prefered the cooler look.

besides Directors use 6500k but programmers don´t.. so i don´t see why i should use 6500k if my goal is gaming.. but anyways, i don´t want to start a debate. thanks for the reply.

Will bias lighting be of any benefit if there is no rear wall for the lights to reflect off? My plasma is mounted on a high stand well away from all walls (8-10 feet from the rear wall).

I'm not so much worried about eye strain as subjectively improving black levels.

Any advice on the specific type of backlighting I should use?
Please read all of the above.

Directors use 6500k but programmers don´t.. so i don´t see why i should use 6500k if my goal is gaming.. but anyways, i don´t want to start a debate.
Many progammers don't because they frequently know very little, if anything, about imaging industry standards and practices. Those who do, use a D65 white point. Some examples of those who do are: Microsoft Corp., Electronic Arts, Radical Games, Factor 5, Lucas Arts, Zombie Studios, High Moon Studios, among others, as well as the THX Games Certification program, and many free-lance graphics subcontractors. This is a public forum....debate comes with the territory.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Will bias lighting be of any benefit if there is no rear wall for the lights to reflect off? My plasma is mounted on a high stand well away from all walls (8-10 feet from the rear wall).
I couldn't say without being in the room to evaluate the whole environment. It's possible you could still realize some benefit by having the right color of illumination behind the TV only. Experiment a little.

Hmmm. That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Nevertheless I did a little experiment with a spare halogen lamp behind the screen at various distances and intensities.

It seems that without any wall or similar surface to reflect the light off, the optical illusion is indeed illusory.

To create the comparatively darker blacks required so much light it became self-defeating.

Interestingly enough, however, whilst doing these experiments I was reminded of an old series of posts here by either Joe Kane or someone of his ilk which recommended shining a soft light directly at your face whilst watching a movie.

The recommendation was something similar to a laptop screen a few feet away.

The theory was the same as backlighting (irises), but it never worked with my projector due to the light spill issue and the general dullness of FP.

However, I have to say that with my new plasma it does work. The plasma is bright enough to not worry about light spillage, and watching it with my laptop facing me does indeed make for more subjectively black blacks.

Nevertheless, I'm still peeved that my old DLP projector has a better black level in my room than my new plasma does.

I'm a black level fiend, but surely this is a step backwards.

I didn't realize there was a whole theory and method to this "bias lighting" when I starting toying with the idea of putting a light behind my flat screen a few weeks ago. Initially I just wanted to do it for additional light and flash you know. Anyway I found a few fluorescent lights at home depot that fit the need. First I started with one 22" long light that I found was insufficient, so I returned it and purchased two 13" lights instead. My total cost was $30.72. Now I don't know what the temperature of the light is and I don't have any fancy shielding (YET!) but Im mostly pleased with the new arrangement. I may try a 7" light in the middle to shoot more light up. Here are a few pictures. The light seems cooler in person..seems cameras have a hard time capturing this sort of light combination.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/WhoMe_/light1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/WhoMe_/light2.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/WhoMe_/light3.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/WhoMe_/light4.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/WhoMe_/light5.jpg

You're part way there. The wall behind the TV appears to be truly neutral in color (white or light gray?). TV bias lighting or backlighting is not just for eyestrain and better perception of black levels.

The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers' human factors research recognized the need to preserve correct color perception of the image. Their SMPTE RP166 document devoted much more attention to the importance of using ambient lighting that was the right color. TVs use CIE D65 (D6500K) for their white point and gray scale. You will benefit from locating lamps (bulbs) that are rated for 6500K and a high color rendering index (CRI of 90 minimum). A vivid demonstration of how our color perception can be fooled by viewing environment conditions is found in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 .

SMPTE also recommends limiting the level of ambient light behind the display to no greater than 10% of the brightest white the TV is adjusted to. Test patterns for determining this are included on all the better home theater setup DVDs.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

You're part way there. The wall behind the TV appears to be truly neutral in color (white or light gray?). TV bias lighting or backlighting is not just for eyestrain and better perception of black levels.

The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers' human factors research recognized the need to preserve correct color perception of the image. Their SMPTE RP166 document devoted much more attention to the importance of using ambient lighting that was the right color. TVs use CIE D65 (D6500K) for their white point and gray scale. You will benefit from locating lamps (bulbs) that are rated for 6500K and a high color rendering index (CRI of 90 minimum). A vivid demonstration of how our color perception can be fooled by viewing environment conditions is found in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 .

SMPTE also recommends limiting the level of ambient light behind the display to no greater than 10% of the brightest white the TV is adjusted to. Test patterns for determining this are included on all the better home theater setup DVDs.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The wall is white, the wooden textures on the board make it look grey.

Thanks for the information. You definatly know your stuff and had I had the extra dollars handy it would have gone your way. There is nothing like a tool that is application specific.

I need to become familiar on how to calibrate my TV with the addition of these lights. If this setup falls short I may still invest in an Ideal-Lume. Thanks again.

Many progammers don't because they frequently know very little, if anything, about imaging industry standards and practices. Those who do, use a D65 white point. Some examples of those who do are: Microsoft Corp., Electronic Arts, Radical Games, Factor 5, Lucas Arts, Zombie Studios, High Moon Studios, among others, as well as the THX Games Certification program, and many free-lance graphics subcontractors. This is a public forum....debate comes with the territory.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
Good to know, I´ll use 6500K then. I wasn´t sure the Developer use 6500K because the reason why we use 6500K on the TV didn´t apply correclty on games, since there are no LAMPS when you make a game as when you direct a movie.

About the Bias Lighting, my Wall is Dark brown... do you think it will be pointless to add Bias Ligthing?
And how power the lights should be? i know it depends on the tv but imagine a tv using the lower Backlighting setting... ? how many watts?

My main goal is to improve perception of black...

Hmmm. That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Nevertheless I did a little experiment with a spare halogen lamp behind the screen at various distances and intensities.

It seems that without any wall or similar surface to reflect the light off, the optical illusion is indeed illusory.

To create the comparatively darker blacks required so much light it became self-defeating.

Interestingly enough, however, whilst doing these experiments I was reminded of an old series of posts here by either Joe Kane or someone of his ilk which recommended shining a soft light directly at your face whilst watching a movie.

The recommendation was something similar to a laptop screen a few feet away.

The theory was the same as backlighting (irises), but it never worked with my projector due to the light spill issue and the general dullness of FP.

However, I have to say that with my new plasma it does work. The plasma is bright enough to not worry about light spillage, and watching it with my laptop facing me does indeed make for more subjectively black blacks.

Nevertheless, I'm still peeved that my old DLP projector has a better black level in my room than my new plasma does.

I'm a black level fiend, but surely this is a step backwards.
You are correct, to be honest the best way to improve the perception of blacks is to have some lights going your way.. or having some ambient light hiting the Front tv (of course this is the opposite of what all will recommend, but the perception will improve a lot. If your front paneldon´t reflect the lights back to you, you may use this too).

the reason why we use 6500K on the TV didn´t apply correclty on games, since there are no LAMPS when you make a game as when you direct a movie.
I'm not confident I understand your point. The reason video monitor viewing environment lighting should be D65 is because that's the white point the monitor is calibrated to.

Computer monitors use 9300K for a white point when it is assumed they will be used in typical office environments that have high levels of 'warm white' or 'cool white' fluorescent illumination. One purpose being, to achieve maximum perceived screen brightness in unfriendly viewing conditions. It's simply an image fidelity compromise to compete with severely compromised viewing conditions. When 9300K is used as the white point, color fidelity suffers. Whenever professional imaging industry standards and practices are followed, image fidelity is preserved all along the program delivery chain.

There are still some professionals on the program production side who don't know or follow the rules. Electronic games developers should be using monitors calibrated to D65. If they don't, they are functioning contrary to best practices and cannot expect artistic integrity to be preserved for their intended audience. Without adhering to standards, there can only be unpredictable results, confusion and chaos.

[Interestingly enough, however, whilst doing these experiments I was reminded of an old series of posts here by either Joe Kane or someone of his ilk which recommended shining a soft light directly at your face whilst watching a movie. The recommendation was something similar to a laptop screen a few feet away.

This is similar in principle to bias/backlighting but there are many other issues that must not be forgotten, if image fidelity is valued. The light facing you should still not be brighter than 10% of the peak white the monitor is set up for. This light must also not shine on the monitor screen. Color of the light must also be D65, or as close to that as possible. It's always best if you can surround the perimeter of the image on the monitor as evenly as possible, for uniform perception of black level throughout the screen.

or having some ambient light hiting the Front tv (of course this is the opposite of what all will recommend, but the perception will improve a lot.
Foolishness! This will introduce reflections, veiling glare, and/or haze, etc. Such consequences interfere with the image being produced.

I love my lights from GerogeAB:

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_bias_close.JPG

It really makes viewing easier on the eyes, and everyone just loves them when they see it.

Foolishness! This will introduce reflections, veiling glare, and/or haze, etc. Such consequences interfere with the image being produced.
As i said this is a wrong way to do it, but bad or not it improve Black level a lot more than any other method.

I love my lights from GerogeAB:

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_bias_close.JPG

It really makes viewing easier on the eyes, and everyone just loves them when they see it.

Jasonn,

Do you see a difference on perception of black level?

Cheers

I'm not confident I understand your point. The reason video monitor viewing environment lighting should be D65 is because that's the white point the monitor is calibrated to.

Computer monitors use 9300K for a white point when it is assumed they will be used in typical office environments that have high levels of 'warm white' or 'cool white' fluorescent illumination. One purpose being, to achieve maximum perceived screen brightness in unfriendly viewing conditions. It's simply an image fidelity compromise to compete with severely compromised viewing conditions. When 9300K is used as the white point, color fidelity suffers. Whenever professional imaging industry standards and practices are followed, image fidelity is preserved all along the program delivery chain.

There are still some professionals on the program production side who don't know or follow the rules. Electronic games developers should be using monitors calibrated to D65. If they don't, they are functioning contrary to best practices and cannot expect artistic integrity to be preserved for their intended audience. Without adhering to standards, there can only be unpredictable results, confusion and chaos.
I though they only reason why they use 6500K was becuase the Director used this type of lamp when shoting a movie. Good to know then. I´ll switch all my Displays to 6500K then.

Jasonn,

Do you see a difference on perception of black level?

Cheers

Don't know about black levels, but it sure looks cool! :) Is this something that can easily be installed by someone who knows absoltely nothing about electronics? Is it just a matter of attaching the lights and plugging them in? How much room do I need to have between the wall and the tv? I'm having my TV installed as I write. They're working on the drywall, expanding my niche. So I'd love to know how much space I should leave between the back of the tv and the wall. Do I need them to do any type of special wiring for the lights? Thanks very much!

I'm a big fan of CinemaQuest's Ideal-Lume lights as well. After spending a couple of weeks scouring OSH, Ace and Lowe's trying to build my own, I realized that I couldn't do any better than what CinemaQuest was offering and I wasted a bunch of time trying. =)

Thanks for a great product GeorgeAB!

As to the black levels, when viewing in a dark room, I think the perception of contrast is somewhat improved with the bias light on vs. when it is off. Also, the fact that I can watch the TV in the dark without eyestrain and thereby reduce the overall brightness of the screen of the set (vs. having to view in a fully lit room) helps with the black levels as well.

I'm sure GeorgeAB will provide the scientific answer shortly. =)

As i said this is a wrong way to do it, but bad or not it improve Black level a lot more than any other method.
There are other methods to get better blacks. Turning the TV off is one. Closing your eyes is another. All these are counter-productive.

Always keep "the big picture" in mind. Focusing on only one element of imaging can cost you performance in many other areas. Image quality should be defined in terms of image fidelity, faithfulness to the original program.

You are certainly entitled to have your own set of TV viewing priorities. Unfortunately, this is a public forum and I'll point out what I see that violates reference imaging standards and practices. Consumers can have some pretty bizarre concepts of what image quality is. Accurate education in this field is a rare commodity.

Most consumers are only familiar with anecdotal experience, misinformation, wrong practice, heresay, guesswork, opinion, intuition, whim, fad, fashion, impulse, etc. They have no clue that there are actually imaging industry standards and practices, based upon principles of imaging science, engineering expertise, and exhaustive human factors research that determine what a quality picture is. Most actually don't care and never will. I assume anyone on this forum is not in that category.

Is this something that can easily be installed by someone who knows absoltely nothing about electronics?
Yes.
Is it just a matter of attaching the lights and plugging them in?
No.
How much room do I need to have between the wall and the tv?
If it's a wall-mounted flat panel TV, at least enough to fit the product back there.
Do I need them to do any type of special wiring for the lights?]
All you need is an empty outlet for the plug.
If you want a comprehensive tutorial on this topic, read the whole thread or visit: www.cinemaquestinc.com . There are few pat answers in life. Each installation is full of unique characteristics. Once you understand the basic principles involved in this technique, you can deduce what specifics will be required for your system. Usually, some on-site experimentation is still necessary.

Yes.

There are other methods to get better blacks. Turning the TV off is one. Closing your eyes is another. All these are counter-productive.

Always keep "the big picture" in mind. Focusing on only one element of imaging can cost you performance in many other areas. Image quality should be defined in terms of image fidelity, faithfulness to the original program.

You are certainly entitled to have your own set of TV viewing priorities. Unfortunately, this is a public forum and I'll point out what I see that violates reference imaging standards and practices. Consumers can have some pretty bizarre concepts of what image quality is. Accurate education in this field is a rare commodity.

Most consumers are only familiar with anecdotal experience, misinformation, wrong practice, heresay, guesswork, opinion, intuition, whim, fad, fashion, impulse, etc. They have no clue that there are actually imaging industry standards and practices, based upon principles of imaging science, engineering expertise, and exhaustive human factors research that determine what a quality picture is. Most actually don't care and never will. I assume anyone on this forum is not in that category.
Thanks GeorgeAB,
Very informative.

i just read this explanation and now i understand perfeclty.

"...Another application of bias lighting is to create a specific perception of black. Black does not exist as a color or palette in light reproduction and is simply expressed and created by the absence of light. It is an optical illusion. If your display does not do blacks very well, meaning after you have calibrated the contrast and brightness you still find light emanating from your screen in a darkened room, then a bias light can easily resolve this problem. The purpose here is to create a ceiling for how much the iris in your eye will open up. The bias light prevents it from opening up greater than the amount of light from your display, making it impossible for you to see the light still emanating from a black screen, thus creating the illusion of jet black. This illusion is easily demonstrated using a calibration DVD and going to the image on the disc for setting black. Turn on the lights in the room and set your black level. Now turn them off and you will see that what was black is not. Now set the black level again under these conditions and turn the lights on. Now you can hardly see anything and your blacks will be buried..."

One last question... i have a dark brown Wall behind my tv.. and my TV is not wallmounted (i don`t know where you can attach the lamps ). Do you think this product will work on this conditions?

PS. I have a LNS3251D Samsung display BTW.

The dark brown wall is not ideal but far from the worst case possible. Brown is in the category of nearly-neutral. A dark wall can still be illuminated to a sufficient level to realize the principle benefits of bias lighting.

A lighter color of wall can also serve to improve perception of black levels when viewing the TV with the room lighting on, when bias lighting would not be used. Color perception would be better served if the wall behind the TV was truly neutral.

Location of the lamp can be as simple as laying it on the same shelf the TV is on. The lamp can also be attached or suspended on the back of the TV.

One last question. I want to be sure before trying this.
On this case the best thing is to have the TV as close to the wall as posible right?

You will actually get better light distribution on the wall if there is more space behind the TV.

George:
My 50" plasma sits about 4-6 inches from wall (I'm at work and can't measure). Wall is AZ white. Will the Standard work, or should I go for the Panellight?

Thanks,

Tony

I think the Standard model should be sufficient.

I have the same question George, I am going to order lights next week once my plasma is mounted but the installer said the TV will be about 5 inches away from the wall.

I have a 50" Plasma with a Dark Red wall (wife picked the color and there is no way I am repainting). Standard or Panellight?

Well yesterday i did the same thing WhoMe14 did. I bought two 13", 12W each and 6500K lamp. I want to try it, to get an idea of how it will if i get the ideal lumen product. The results were outstanding!.

My main problem, poor black level, was a HUGE improve with the biaslighting. I had to cover the sides of the Lamps with a special black tape, because the light was a bit too much. Now it looks perfect.

I can´t believe how much improvement this bias lighting did on the black level. I´m very happy. I bet the Ideal Lumens product will be worth it after all! :)

gcrissman,

If it's wall-mounted use the Panelight.

gcrissman,

If it's wall-mounted use the Panelight.

Thanks...I'll be ordering next week

I think the Standard model should be sufficient.
Thanks George. I guess I'll be dropping $50 this weekend...

Well yesterday i did the same thing WhoMe14 did. I bought two 13", 12W each and 6500K lamp. I want to try it, to get an idea of how it will if i get the ideal lumen product. The results were outstanding!.

My main problem, poor black level, was a HUGE improve with the biaslighting. I had to cover the sides of the Lamps with a special black tape, because the light was a bit too much. Now it looks perfect.

I can´t believe how much improvement this bias lighting did on the black level. I´m very happy. I bet the Ideal Lumens product will be worth it after all! :)

What kind of tape are you using? I was considering using some kind of black spray painted lexen and folding some sort of shield to block the light, but tape would be much easier.

I´m using the same tape people use when they conecta electric cables... i don´t know how it is called in US.

it work.. but don´t expect to reduce the light that much... it reduce a bit on the sides. on my case it is perfect.

Black electrical tape. Thatl work! Ill give that a try. Thanks.