yeah, that one...
let me know how it goes.

I bit the bullet and ordered the Ideal Lume Standard. After reading this thread, and considering all the effort and cost to get a good display, I figured the $60 I'm paying for the "proper tool" for the job was the way to go. Considering I paid over $2k for the TV, a purpose built item that will improve the overall experience for 3% of the TV price was a good deal. Looking forward to Movie night after the light gets here.

Thanks George for the input.

Hi all, my son attached orange Christmas lights (for Halloween!) behind the TV and wow, does it ever look cool! Can't say that it does anything for the PQ--I've not actually watch TV for any length of time yet.... I imagine though, that orange may not be the best choice for enhancing PQ!

Since you "can't say" anything, I will. You don't have to "imagine" anything. Imaging science is very clear on such a scenario. Orange backlighting is most definitely NOT the "best choice" for correct picture quality.

It might be fun or "cool" to live with it through this Holloween period. If you want image fidelity over the long haul, use the right color.

Since you "can't say" anything, I will. You don't have to "imagine" anything. Imaging science is very clear on such a scenario. Orange backlighting is most definitely NOT the "best choice" for correct picture quality.

It might be fun or "cool" to live with it through this Holloween period. If you want image fidelity over the long haul, use the right color.
i think he was being ironic or joking about the whole Bias Ligthing for some reason.

i think he was being ironic or joking about the whole Bias Ligthing for some reason.

Nope, I wasn't joking or being ironic. And no need to get your feathers ruffled, George AB. I had mentioned to my son about how it could be helpful to have lights installed behind the TV. He was decorating for Halloween and decided to try the orange (closer to red than orange) lights. And it does look really cool--like the TV is floating. I love it! I'll see about posting a pic. ...

The PQ is great to begin with and the light doesn't detract from it. And, as I said, I love the look. But yeah, after Halloween we'll likely experiment with other colors... and I'll see what effect it might have on the PQ.

no need to get your feathers ruffled, George AB
My "feathers" get ruffled (if you mean alerted and confrontational) because there is so much misinformation about correct imaging constantly perpetuated in the home entertainment market. From my perspective, there is most definitely a need to emphasize what makes for better pictures. I confront wrong practice when I have the opportunity, and endeavor to set the public record straight with accurate information. This may strike some folks as obnoxious and "anal retentive" but I don't care about such opinions. I do care about reference imaging and folks can take my comments any way they like.

My approach to viewing environment issues may be considered idealistic and perfectionist, but without an ideal as a target, excellence is more rarely experienced. I try not to be dogmatic, but I also endeavor to be vocal and precise. There are far more people advocating compromised imaging than there are image fidelity.

Forgive me if this has already been answered earlier in the thread, most of the information is going right over my head. I looked at the website, and it was a little vague in this detail. Does the Ideal Lume plug in to a receiver or television and automatically turn on when these components turn on, or is it something wired separately so you have to turn it off and on by itself? Is it something that you could program to turn on through a Harmony remote?

Forgive me if this has already been answered earlier in the thread, most of the information is going right over my head. I looked at the website, and it was a little vague in this detail. Does the Ideal Lume plug in to a receiver or television and automatically turn on when these components turn on, or is it something wired separately so you have to turn it off and on by itself? Is it something that you could program to turn on through a Harmony remote?

It plugs into any outlet like any other electrical component. If you plug it into a switched outlet (like is common on the back of lots of receivers) then I suppose you could leave it turned on so when the receiver turns on the light turns on.

As far as controlling it with a Harmony remote goes - I wanted that option too but it was turning into a bit more of an expense and setup than I was willing to deal with.

I ultimately ended up zip-tie'ing it to the mounting brackets on the back of my plasma - and just reach around the back and flip it on when I want it on. I'd love to be able to do it via my Harmony 880 but I didn't want a bunch of extra stuff hanging around to be able to do that.

I'm sure Mr. Brown will chime in here with some ideas for you.

Btw...I love my Ideal Lume.

I have the ideal lume, and was pleasantly surprised at how much of a difference it makes. It makes it less "harsh" on the eyes. Thanks George!

My "feathers" get ruffled (if you mean alerted and confrontational) because there is so much misinformation about correct imaging constantly perpetuated in the home entertainment market. From my perspective, there is most definitely a need to emphasize what makes for better pictures. I confront wrong practice when I have the opportunity, and endeavor to set the public record straight with accurate information. This may strike some folks as obnoxious and "anal retentive" but I don't care about such opinions. I do care about reference imaging and folks can take my comments any way they like.

My approach to viewing environment issues may be considered idealistic and perfectionist, but without an ideal as a target, excellence is more rarely experienced. I try not to be dogmatic, but I also endeavor to be vocal and precise. There are far more people advocating compromised imaging than there are image fidelity.

Again, I didn't mean my post to be any type of commentary on the merits or lack thereof of bias lighting in improving PQ. I simply was commenting on how cool the Halloween lights look. It may very well be that the proper lighting would ehance the PQ, but the PQ is so good as it is that I'm willing to risk a bit of degradation to get the cool look! :) In fact, I may go with red and green lights for Christmas! :p

In case anyone is curious, you can view a pic here: http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/plasticlegs22/SAIBARI%20TV/

The other pics are there because someone asked about the reflectivity of the screen on another thread...

Has anyone purchased a T8 ballasts and bulb from a home improvement store? It seems as though this would be any easy and inexpensive way to provide proper backlighting. I plan to buy a T8 Ballasts from my local H.D. for around $19 and then the T8 bulb for another $6. So basically for under $30 I will have a 6500k 18" light mounted behind my plasma.

What would be the negatives with this setup?

Get a fixture with an electronic ballast: less heat, instant start, less hum, longer life, more electrically efficient. Look for one with a truly clear diffuser lens if you must have the impact protection. A non-clear diffuser will alter the color of the lamp. Find a 6500K lamp with a color rendering index (CRI) that is at least 90 out of 100. A lower CRI rating will not have uniform color. You will also have to regulate the output from the lamp to achieve 10% illumination on the wall, compared to the brightest white on the TV screen after adjusting the brightness and contrast in the picture. Fluorescents cannot be dimmed electrically with standard dimmers, nor without expensive dimming ballasts. That's why we include a mechanical method for dimming, using a rotating shutter/baffle tube around the lamp. Improper implementation of the technique will diminish the results.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George, I noticed that now my light is getting a nice coating of dust on it. I tried to wipe it off but I think it needs liquid to come off. I assume its okay to use some windex on a napkin to dampen it and wipe the light off?

Mild soap is probably less likely than Windex to react with any of the plastics. Endust used to make a spray cleaner for electronic componenets that claimed to be safe on plastics.

Has anyone purchased a T8 ballasts and bulb from a home improvement store? It seems as though this would be any easy and inexpensive way to provide proper backlighting. I plan to buy a T8 Ballasts from my local H.D. for around $19 and then the T8 bulb for another $6. So basically for under $30 I will have a 6500k 18" light mounted behind my plasma.

What would be the negatives with this setup?Plenty of them. For starters, I'll bet you have a quite difficult time finding a T8 lamp that is 6500K at ANY home-improvement store, much less a 6500K lamp that has a nice high CRI.

I am truly baffled why people out there come here, to these forums, and to this specific thread, read about bias lighting here, and then post here about how they want to go out an 'do it themselves' to save 20 or 30 bucks, when the solution - the Idealume - is already available. Doesn't any of the information here sink in? Don't people believe any of the testimony here about the quality and effect that the CinemaQuest products have? How well engineered they are, how they are already frickin' optimized for their role as a bias light?

Look I understand the urge to fiddle and experiment and the joy of finding you can duplicate an expensive set up for cheaper. But come on, the Idealume line is so well thought out, so flexible, and so reasonably priced, it's simply a no-brainer to buy this product, and then spend your time and energy deploying it well - do stuff like get your wall/background color right, your wires and center-channel speakers positioned cleanly to avoid shadows and obstructions, etc, etc. Your time is FAR better spent attending to details of positioning the lamp and installation details of the rest of your system than trying to re-invent the wheel (in a manner of speaking).

I don't mean to gush or rave but the Idealume is such a good product, so good at what it does, and is so affordable, that all this talk of rope-light, low-voltage-halogen, Ho-Depot-fixture, christmas-light cheapie solutions just leaves me shaking my head in disappointment.

It's so easy; get the Standard or two, or the PanelLight as needed. Hook them up with a little thought, and you will love the result. I have yet to see one bad reaction to the Standard in my setup (emphatically the opposite, in fact) nor a bad review or feedback posted by an Idealume customer. And why do you think that is? It's because it WORKS, and WORKS REALLY WELL. Mine mounts so slick behind my KDL-52XBR3 that it almost looks like it came with the TV. It makes such a difference that it should come with the TV.

I used to make instrument and cockpit lighting (and electronic ballasts, too!) for commercial aircraft, and I know and understand the specific technology and physiology of what George talks about and has put into the design and component selection for his products. It's the Real Stuff and you really won't do better on your own...so don't waste your time trying.

OK, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. :D

Cheers!
-3Gun

Ideal Lume arrived today. Sadly, UPS did a job on the box(es) and the bulb installed in the fixture was broken. The glass dust has scratched and coated the inside of the adjustable light baffle as well. I'm pretty bummed, but it was NOT any fault of cinemaquest. The amount of packing peanuts, bubble wrap and foam was more than adequate for normal shipping. Just UPS decided to put something heavy on top of the box with FRAGILE all over it and caused the boxes to buckle in the center.
I've filed my claim with UPS and expect to get a new unit shipped out soon.

I did swap out the extra bulb and put on the baffle. I hung the unit behind my TV with some dental floss and it looks great dispite the glass dust.

Time to watch a movie!

As far as controlling it with a Harmony remote goes - I wanted that option too but it was turning into a bit more of an expense and setup than I was willing to deal with.
I'd love to be able to do it via my Harmony 880 but I didn't want a bunch of extra stuff hanging around to be able to do that.



You can easily do this. All I did was by an X10 IR543, $20, and a X10 switched outlet, $12. Just plug it into the outlet that is on/off and your harmony will turn it on and off :)

Plenty of them. For starters, I'll bet you have a quite difficult time finding a T8 lamp that is 6500K at ANY home-improvement store, much less a 6500K lamp that has a nice high CRI.

I am truly baffled why people out there come here, to these forums, and to this specific thread, read about bias lighting here, and then post here about how they want to go out an 'do it themselves' to save 20 or 30 bucks, when the solution - the Idealume - is already available. Doesn't any of the information here sink in? Don't people believe any of the testimony here about the quality and effect that the CinemaQuest products have? How well engineered they are, how they are already frickin' optimized for their role as a bias light?

Look I understand the urge to fiddle and experiment and the joy of finding you can duplicate an expensive set up for cheaper. But come on, the Idealume line is so well thought out, so flexible, and so reasonably priced, it's simply a no-brainer to buy this product, and then spend your time and energy deploying it well - do stuff like get your wall/background color right, your wires and center-channel speakers positioned cleanly to avoid shadows and obstructions, etc, etc. Your time is FAR better spent attending to details of positioning the lamp and installation details of the rest of your system than trying to re-invent the wheel (in a manner of speaking).

I don't mean to gush or rave but the Idealume is such a good product, so good at what it does, and is so affordable, that all this talk of rope-light, low-voltage-halogen, Ho-Depot-fixture, christmas-light cheapie solutions just leaves me shaking my head in disappointment.

It's so easy; get the Standard or two, or the PanelLight as needed. Hook them up with a little thought, and you will love the result. I have yet to see one bad reaction to the Standard in my setup (emphatically the opposite, in fact) nor a bad review or feedback posted by an Idealume customer. And why do you think that is? It's because it WORKS, and WORKS REALLY WELL. Mine mounts so slick behind my KDL-52XBR3 that it almost looks like it came with the TV. It makes such a difference that it should come with the TV.

I used to make instrument and cockpit lighting (and electronic ballasts, too!) for commercial aircraft, and I know and understand the specific technology and physiology of what George talks about and has put into the design and component selection for his products. It's the Real Stuff and you really won't do better on your own...so don't waste your time trying.

OK, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. :D

Cheers!
-3Gun

I understand what you're saying and may even go the idealume route, but at the same time it's fun to fiddle & experiment like you mentioned.;)

My local H.D. has 18" and 21" ballasts and also carry T8 6500K rated bulbs. However, you are correct with it not costing much more to go with an idealume when it's all said and done. I would have to purchase two to provide enough light for my 50"

I would also like to note that I just purchased 15' of LED Rope "true white" lights from Target and I am very impressed. I would have to say that it looks nearly identical to my friend's setup using the idealume. I'm sure the differences would be noticed if compared side by side, but for $15, I think i may see how it works out. I'll try to post pics this weekend.

I was trying to go the homebrew/cheap way, but after you add everything up, you are going to get close to the cost of the Ideal lume. I decided to avoid the hassels and just pop for the taylor-made product. The extra lamp sealed the deal in my mind.

As far as needing 2 lamps on a 50", I don't agree... I just installed my (damaged in shipping) single (standard) lamp. More than enough light for my 50" panny. I actually had to turn the baffle to lessen the amount of light once I was watching my movie last night.

I am really happy with the picture quality of my TV, even more than before. The blacks are now very inky black. (I dropped the brightness down 2 ticks, and think it could go more, but want to check with calibration disc first to avoid black crush). I will do a new clibration once I get some time and the expected replacement fixture installed.

The down side of the lamp is that it shows my poor cable management and causes my center speaker wire to stand out. I guess I'll be running the wire through the wall and get the zip ties around those cables.

I was trying to go the homebrew/cheap way, but after you add everything up, you are going to get close to the cost of the Ideal lume. I decided to avoid the hassels and just pop for the taylor-made product. The extra lamp sealed the deal in my mind.

As far as needing 2 lamps on a 50", I don't agree... I just installed my (damaged in shipping) single (standard) lamp. More than enough light for my 50" panny. I actually had to turn the baffle to lessen the amount of light once I was watching my movie last night.

I am really happy with the picture quality of my TV, even more than before. The blacks are now very inky black. (I dropped the brightness down 2 ticks, and think it could go more, but want to check with calibration disc first to avoid black crush). I will do a new clibration once I get some time and the expected replacement fixture installed.

The down side of the lamp is that it shows my poor cable management and causes my center speaker wire to stand out. I guess I'll be running the wire through the wall and get the zip ties around those cables.

This is good to know... Do you have the standard $50 ideal lume? Do you have i mounted in the center or is it below the base of the TV? I have my 50" panny mounted on the wall with all the wires in the wall, so I would be mounting it in the center most likely on the wall mount bracket.

This is good to know... Do you have the standard $50 ideal lume? Do you have i mounted in the center or is it below the base of the TV? I have my 50" panny mounted on the wall with all the wires in the wall, so I would be mounting it in the center most likely on the wall mount bracket.

I've got a 50" panny. The TV is on the stand. It sits 4.5" from the wall at the widest point near the bottom and about 5" the top half of the set. Right now it is hanging from the fan vents with some dental floss (This is just temporary until I get a replacement unit, since the original was damged by UPS.) It is hanging about 1/3 the way up.

I like my home depot setup and I think the Ideal Lume is a great product! I do not think there is a need to be dissapointed or hostile to those that choose to do "bias lighting" differently. I guess Im responding to the member who is confused and seemingly offended as to why we even post here. We post because we are sharing our expierences on bias lighting of all different kinds and applications; thats valid isnt it?

Personally, my original intention on using bias lighting had very little to do with enhancing the image on my set. Also my HT budget is gone...so the 50-60 dollars savings was a big deal to me. Does that mean I think Ideal Lume customers are dumb for investing in that product...absolutly not. Im glad George and Ideal Lume customers are sharing thier expierences. It only serves to add to the wealth of information we all enjoy here.

NOTICE: the post I was responding to with this message has been deleted by the administrator. Some folks define "private" differently. I'm even more convinced I made the correct judgement. I reserve the right to do business with whomever I choose. I've also been at this long enough to realize doing business with some people is counter-productive.

Cant you get similar effects with a candle lamp or a simple rope light?

I've got a 50" panny. The TV is on the stand. It sits 4.5" from the wall at the widest point near the bottom and about 5" the top half of the set. Right now it is hanging from the fan vents with some dental floss (This is just temporary until I get a replacement unit, since the original was damged by UPS.) It is hanging about 1/3 the way up.

Thanks for the pics... do you have any with a front tv picture view? I would like to see the amount of light displayed with one bulb behind a 50" set. Thanks!

I like my home depot setup and I think the Ideal Lume is a great product! I do not think there is a need to be dissapointed or hostile to those that choose to do "bias lighting" differently. I guess Im responding to the member who is confused and seemingly offended as to why we even post here. We post because we are sharing our expierences on bias lighting of all different kinds and applications; thats valid isnt it?

Personally, my original intention on using bias lighting had very little to do with enhancing the image on my set. Also my HT budget is gone...so the 50-60 dollars savings was a big deal to me. Does that mean I think Ideal Lume customers are dumb for investing in that product...absolutly not. Im glad George and Ideal Lume customers are sharing thier expierences. It only serves to add to the wealth of information we all enjoy here.Hey, please don't you confuse frustration with posters attempts to re-invent the "wheel", with hostility. Clearly, everyone is free to share their thoughts and philosophies on bias lighting here on this forum. Offended? Nah.
If you like your homebuilt lighting setup, great. The closer it's built to the nominal parameters which are determined by Audio Video Science that these forums are named after, the better. Enjoy it.

Cheers!
-3Gun

I just got a 50' Panny and I am looking to get a light(s). I was reading in the thread about whether one or two lights is enough. Those of you who have a 50', did you go with one or two lights..

-Rob

I just got a 50' Panny and I am looking to get a light(s). I was reading in the thread about whether one or two lights is enough. Those of you who have a 50', did you go with one or two lights..

-Rob

I've got a 50" panny.... One light (standard) more than enough.

Like most of life, there are no pat answers. It depends on the viewing environment. If the wall behind the TV is especially dark, one may not be enough. For flat panels on a stand, with a typical wall color, one is sufficient. We have happy customers using only one light behind 70+ inch TVs with a white wall. The principles remain constant, conditions vary.

Thanks for the pics... do you have any with a front tv picture view? I would like to see the amount of light displayed with one bulb behind a 50" set. Thanks!

There ya go... My speakers block more light than I would like, but I have limited options in our little condo.

There ya go... My speakers block more light than I would like, but I have limited options in our little condo.

You're right... there seems to be plenty of light from just one standard ideal lume. THanks for the pic!

There ya go... My speakers block more light than I would like, but I have limited options in our little condo.

Thanks for the pic Tony...I have adjusted my order and purchased one light for my 50'. The wall behind the TV is beige wallpaper with blue specks...no dark colors so I should be good to go with the one light...thanks for everyone's help!

After waiting the 5 days like UPS said, I didn't hear anything so I called CinemaQuest directly to see what was happening. Apparently nothing, since they didn't know anything about my damaged item. I explained things for a few minutes, and was told I would get a call back in the morning (I called afterhours and spoke to an customer service person/answering service). Got a call this morning from Ryan at CQ and told me a new fixture and lamps were on their way. Boom, done. Great customer service. Still hanging onto all the shipping and broken stuff per UPS..... I'll give that another couple of days before I toss out the boxes and broken lamp.

Got home from work last night and there was my light, a day early that anticipated. Installed it last night and after doing a firmware upgrade on my Blu-ray player we watched The Fifth Element on Blu-ray.

My 15yo son commented on how the picture looked better with the light, plus his eyes were not strained as they have been after watching a movie in the dark. That is a good testament about the effectiveness of the basis light, my 15yo noticed the difference.

How does matching the 6500K standard with bias lighting improve viewing?

How does matching the 6500K standard with bias lighting improve viewing?

The answers you seek are here:
Spend a bit of time reading this. (http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm)

But in short, movies & TV are supposed to be edited and color corrected to that standard.

"Professional monitor environments (where critical image analysis is conducted for mastering video programs) use tightly controlled ambient lighting and neutral colored surfaces surrounding the display. These room characteristics help preserve correct color perception and image fidelity. It is vital to consider that program post-production can involve multiple days, different technicians, and even various facilities working on the same project. "

I'm waiting to get the IdeaLume Standard and in the meantime i installed a 7 Watt compact fluorescent (4600K).

TV is quite well calibrated for whites = 40fl., but my eyes tend to get tired a bit too fast, so i set the light level behind the tv to about 20% of the TV's whites instead of the recommended 10%.

Are there any disadvanges in doing this?

The generally accepted recommendation is 10%. The principle is based upon human factors research. This may vary somewhat with certain individuals. Start with 10% and live with it for a while. Some people may find that a little lower or higher works better for them. With humans, there are always exceptions. What works for most is 10%.

As the backlight illumination increases, there will be a tendency for the backlight to start to compete with the image on the screen. The viewer will start to lose contrast in the image. A good analogy would be to compare how much detail you can see in a person's face seated in front of a sunny window, with a translucent shade or curtain blocking most of the sunlight, versus how their face appears with the window unblocked behind them. In every case their face will darken and lose definition with the brighter backlighting. The difference between 10% and 20% will be less discernable but it will have some effect.

Illuminating answer, George, thank you.

Thanks for the pic Tony...I have adjusted my order and purchased one light for my 50'. The wall behind the TV is beige wallpaper with blue specks...no dark colors so I should be good to go with the one light...thanks for everyone's help!

I got my light yesterday in the mail and just positioned behind the tv on the stand to see how it will look....OMG :D this is amazing!!! I am glad I went with the one light, it is plenty enough for 50' set with a wall that is not dark. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who sent PM to my questions! I highly recommend a Ideal Lume!!! Thanks again! :p

My replacement unit arrived last night. No problems in shipping this time around. Now I just need to motivate myself to swap out the temporary one and setup the replacement with the velcro. I think I'll play a bit more with the position though, since my current setup lets me move things without problems.

Would the panel light mounted on each side be too bright for the 40" Bravia XBR4
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jszhsBFTL._SS500_.jpg
or would the standard be better? I like the idea of having the lights on both sides rather than one in the middle

Is it stand or wall mounted?

wall mounted

The Panelight is configured for wall-mounted flat panel TVs. Its 2 lights allow for more encircling illumination, especially when they are mounted close to the mounting bracket rather than out toward the edges of the panel.

TVs with ample space behind them, such as CRTs, panels on stands, and RPTVs, can just use one light. The extra space between the TV and the wall allows for the illumination to spread out without obstruction.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hey George. Can these lights be used with an LCD DLP? I have a 50 inch that sits maybe 2 feet off the wall. Id like to get one if Ill have some good luck. My wall will be a dark chocoalte too if that matters.

brittonal,

Yes. Bias lighting is appropriate for just about any free-standing TV that's being viewed in the dark. Please read this article on the new ISF-affiliated public web site: http://www.isfforum.com/index.php?option=com_deeppockets&task=catShow&id=16&Itemid=48

Would the panel light mounted on each side be too bright for the 40" Bravia XBR4 or would the standard be better? I like the idea of having the lights on both sides rather than one in the middle LCDs can be so bright, the smaller they are, the more the need for lighting to reduce fatigue. LCDs, generally, need more room light than a Plasma.

I have used christmas lites ..on a dimmer ...you can actually use the color you want by removing/adding the bulbs ..

I have used christmas lites ..on a dimmer ...you can actually use the color you want by removing/adding the bulbs ..
Compromised performance is usually less expensive on the front end. Incorrect viewing environment conditions will diminish the performance of the display and any program viewed on it. Diminished performance translates into decreased value in the end.

Black level perception and viewing comfort can be aided with any type of display back lighting. Using the wrong color of illumination will skew the viewer's color perception. There is no way to achieve the correct color with that method. This recommendation is seriously flawed, if intended for anyone interested in optimizing their TV's image fidelity.

The Panelight is configured for wall-mounted flat panel TVs. Its 2 lights allow for more encircling illumination, especially when they are mounted close to the mounting bracket rather than out toward the edges of the panel.

TVs with ample space behind them, such as CRTs, panels on stands, and RPTVs, can just use one light. The extra space between the TV and the wall allows for the illumination to spread out without obstruction.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George, I have a 60" PDP mounted on an articulating arm mount which is installed in an alcove (6' wide, about 3' deep). For critical viewing the monitor is pulled out about 18-23 inches from the back wall. In this setup would the Standard light be the better choice, or the Panelight?

Since the plasma resides within a niche, and will be pulled away from the wall, I am worried about light scatter on the adjacent walls. I find too much backlighting distracting, but I would also like an even dispersion pattern, mainly for aesthetic reasons.

Currently the alcove housing the PDP is painted a light cream color. But I plan on painting it some shade of Grey to give me a more neutral color within the viewing area.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

It sounds like you have a good grasp on the issues. A single light is probably sufficient but placement may be a bit of a challenge. Much depends on how the mount is designed. You can start with one and experiment. If you can't get the right distribution of illumination, you can add another.

As far as light on the side walls, light will go wherever it can. You'll have to improvise to address peculiar circumstances that apply to your unique installation and personal preference.

George, is it okay to hang your light on the back of the plasma and let it rest right against the panel? I have it about 2 feet down from the top on string and it rests against the panel. I leave the light on now for hours and just want to make sure there isn't anything that might cause problems with the light actually resting on the back of the plasma.

We've never encountered a problem with any TV, nor have we had any problems with TVs reported to us in 8 years and over 6,000 units in the field.

It sounds like you have a good grasp on the issues. A single light is probably sufficient but placement may be a bit of a challenge. Much depends on how the mount is designed. You can start with one and experiment. If you can't get the right distribution of illumination, you can add another.

As far as light on the side walls, light will go wherever it can. You'll have to improvise to address peculiar circumstances that apply to your unique installation and personal preference.

Thanks for the reply. I am just going to order the Panelight. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and have to make another order. I assume that if necessary, I can just use a single Panelight fixture?

I assume that if necessary, I can just use a single Panelight fixture?
Yes, the Panelight includes two complete Standard models, plus linking cables.

George,

Just spent an hour + on this thread and I'm sold. Before I order your product I just want to run it by you.

My setup is a wall mounted Pioneer 5070 50inch Plasma. The back wall is white. Would you recommend the standard or panel setup? I do a lot of gaming and movie watching in the dark so this would be much valued.

Thanks,
Robert.

As one can see from our web site, the Panelight is specifically configured for wall-mounted, flat panel TVs.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks George. Just wanted a tripple confirm :) Can't wait to try it out.

What do you guys think of Philips 7432D series of LCD TV's? It has that ambilight feature that can be set to 6500K. Does this do a suitable job at bias lighting? Similar to the Ideal Lume?

Thanks.

how many ideal lumes are required for a 58 inch tv wall mounted? if i saw correctly on the website 3 were put on the back of a tv? sorry if im asking a dumb question

Hi George or anyone else who has this info. I finally am ready to buy my plasma. I plan to use an ideal-lume bias light. Currently, my walls are sponged a bright yellow/gold. I will be painting them next week. I want to pick a color that will not affect the tv colors - but I need to find something rich and that captures light as my room tends to be dark. Anybody have any ideas or know where to look? I'm thinking something in the beige, green, or grey families. Thanks.

Vashti,

Not sure if this is too dark for your purposes but we recently remodeled and used all Sherwin Williams paints. The color in our living room is called "Basket Beige" and we are very happy with the results.

It's seems to work fairly well with my Ideal Lume also - maybe George can chime in - I think he felt it was a bit too dark but I think it's worked out well (I'm a novice though when it comes to proper colors etc).

I have Eliab from Avical scheduled to come calibrate my Pio 940 this coming Tuesday - so we'll see what his thoughts are after the job.

http://btz.smugmug.com/photos/179148215-M.jpg

how many ideal lumes are required for a 58 inch tv wall mounted? if i saw correctly on the website 3 were put on the back of a tv? sorry if im asking a dumb question

I have two total on my 60" and it looks great.

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_bias_close.JPG

What do you guys think of Philips 7432D series of LCD TV's? It has that ambilight feature that can be set to 6500K. Does this do a suitable job at bias lighting? Similar to the Ideal Lume?
So far, the Philips TVs have not performed as well as several other brands, in basic picture quality and features. This has been a consistent pattern year after year. They are usually less expensive than many similar sets.

The 'Ambilight' feature in "6500K" mode has been reviewed as not very accurate. I have seen it work at trade shows and on TV, but never had a sample to test thoroughly. Every version I've seen appears to be a very expensive, but clumsy attempt at the technique.

I don't understand why they insist on departing from proven imaging science, display industry standards, and recommended practice. Perhaps they think they have to come up with some unique feature to distinguish themselves in the marketplace. In my experience, simply giving consumers an accurate image would be very noteworthy, since hardly any TV does this without professional calibration and/or modification, if at all.

Philips has succeeded as far as they have because they perform market research and conduct focus groups. They don't regard image fidelity as a superior design goal. This is because most consumers are initially impressed by distorted images, and have become adapted to distorted images over time, including many people on this forum. This is a simple fact of life, a basic characteristic of human nature, and will likely always be. The masses are always prone to become comfortable with mediocrity, especially if it comes at a lower price.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I want to pick a color that will not affect the tv colors - but I need to find something rich and that captures light as my room tends to be dark. Anybody have any ideas or know where to look? I'm thinking something in the beige, green, or grey families.
The farther away from gray or white you go, the more it will affect your color perception of the TV's image. Only the wall behind the TV is in play here. The rest of the room will be outside your field of view when watching the screen, mostly or entirely. If the wall behind the TV is neutral, it will work best at all times of the day, not just when using back lighting in the dark. Other room surfaces should be kept at least nearly neutral.

Please understand, my recommendations are for people who want the best picture quality from their equipment. Room decor is a personal decision. If the way the room looks takes priority over image fidelity, you're on your own. If you want to understand what will result in better viewing experiences, pay attention to what I say. I am an imaging science advocate, not an interior decorator. Most interior designers, architects and ,sadly, many home theater professionals, don't understand or sufficiently value image fidelity. To ignore display industry standards and recommended practice will always result in compromises to image quality.

I recommend that you review this article on the new ISF-affliated public informational web site: http://www.isfforum.com/index.php?option=com_deeppockets&task=catContShow&cat=16&id=51&Itemid=48 . Whim, impulse, intuition, fad, fashion, trends, opinions, guesswork, wishful thinking, anecdotal experience, personal preference, popular acclaim, etc., all have nothing whatsoever to do with image fidelity.

how many ideal lumes are required for a 58 inch tv wall mounted?
At least 2 lights are recommended. Four might be better. It depends on your installation.

I have two total on my 60" and it looks great.

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/images/xyz/vizio_bias_close.JPG

Jasonn

Do you have pics of the install behind the tv? is this something you did on your own? Any other information would be great.

Thank You
Brian

Instead of buying two separate Ideal-Lume Standard, can I just buy one Ideal-Lume Panelight, but separate them, one for each of my two TV sets?

Thanks

Instead of buying two separate Ideal-Lume Standard, can I just buy one Ideal-Lume Panelight, but separate them, one for each of my two TV sets?
Precisely!

Thanks George. Order placed.

I slogged through all the posts here and I did not see anything that compares to my nightmare....I rent a house and the only available space for my 46inch Mitsubishi is on a fully mirrored wall...everything of course reflects off of it my Mitz is on a tv stand..all the cords show in the mirror...the mirror cannot be removed...not my house......would any of your lights work for me...my living room setup does not allow for moving the tv...I have 3 walls...one is the dreaded mirror it is over the entire wall...one has the fireplace with another full mirror above it (my landlord loves his stupid mirrors...go figure) and the third is the one opposite the fireplace...it does not have a mirror but it is the only place for seating to see the tv ...the 4th wall is a very small wall that fits a recliner....

So what do you do in a situation like this....challenging isn't it?

I slogged through all the posts here and I did not see anything that compares to my nightmare....I rent a house and the only available space for my 46inch Mitsubishi is on a fully mirrored wall...

Can you drape something over the mirrors? How about curtains behind the TV set that cover the entire wall? Attach the curtains to two sliding rods on the ceiling that meet in the middle, so you can open it up if you chose to. Might give your room that extra "theater" touch as well :)

Can you drape something over the mirrors? How about curtains behind the TV set that cover the entire wall? Attach the curtains to two sliding rods on the ceiling that meet in the middle, so you can open it up if you chose to. Might give your room that extra "theater" touch as well :)

You know cannon that's not a half bad idea.....I must admit those stupid mirrors give the room depth and make it seem larger...but....I could easily put curtains behind there.....I was even considering a divider....I am hesitant to move the tv forward because this room from hell is smallish and the farther back you sit the better the tv looks...I am blessed with a great tv....a Mitsubishi LT-42631......I want to get everything I can from my viewing pleasure so cannon you may be onto something....thanks for the suggestion

You know cannon that's not a half bad idea.....I must admit those stupid mirrors give the room depth and make it seem larger...but....I could easily put curtains behind there.....I was even considering a divider....I am hesitant to move the tv forward because this room from hell is smallish and the farther back you sit the better the tv looks...I am blessed with a great tv....a Mitsubishi LT-42631......I want to get everything I can from my viewing pleasure so cannon you may be onto something....thanks for the suggestion

Welcome :) Post some pics if you end up putting up curtains.

Welcome :) Post some pics if you end up putting up curtains.

You can count on that ....it may take me a while...LOL...but I have to say this is why I love the AV forum...you guys were the reason I got my awesome Mitz and now you have in one post solved my nightmare problem....thanks so much...

Was your landlord concerned about vampires?

Was your landlord concerned about vampires?

Ok George that had me laughing out loud....no wonder my reflection is missing....who knew....tee hee :D :D

George,

I have a 52inch LCD w/ a white wall in the background. It sits on a stand, in the corner of my room.

If I understand correctly, I need 1 light only right? I assume it's suppose to be installed in the middle of the tv facing the corner?

Thanks!
Prasad

Correct.

George,
. I have my Sony 52" XBR5 mounted on an LCD TV Floor stand (made by BDI). I just purchased the "standard" Ideal Lume (arrived today). I sorta mounted it horizontally on the back of the panel. I think (actually, I know) it is setup too bright (I have it fully uncovered, the black dimmer twisted underneath the tube). If I twist the black dimmer around & covering the tube..it will cut back the light, but won't it sort of limit the light towards one direction only, and I think a uniform glow around the display is desired.... Can you offer any suggestions as to what I should/can do? Thanks in advance!:)
Tom

You will need to experiment a bit to get the best effect in your installation. The rotating baffle tube forms a lineal aperture on either side of the fixture, similar to a shutter. You may need to rotate the fixture a bit or invert it to aim the illumination where it works the best for your setup. It may also help to move the TV out from the wall a little further. Light goes where it will and spreads out better with more distance.

How about plugging in a little night light, with the xmas tree bulb? Think that'll work as well?

OK, thanks..I own the (new) Avia 2 DVD..Which "calibration display" on it do I use when adjusting the backlighting?...
Thanks...:)

How about plugging in a little night light, with the xmas tree bulb? Think that'll work as well?

I think George (or others) will comment also, but I think for the desired effect you need a 6500K light:)

How about plugging in a little night light, with the xmas tree bulb? Think that'll work as well?
Welcome to the AV Science Forum!

This will give you a little better perspective on this topic: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

OK, thanks..I own the (new) Avia 2 DVD..Which "calibration display" on it do I use when adjusting the backlighting?...
I'll assume you mean "test pattern."

Go to- Chapter 10: Advanced video test signals

Then- Advanced video patterns

Then- Miscellaneous

Finally- Bias light

Thanks George!....:)

I have finally received (one month waiting, thanks customs... :mad:) my ideal lume panelight but now i dont know wich way should i put those two? Vertically? Horizontally?:confused: I have the Elite Pro150 as plasma screen... In the instruction, they talk about a dimmer, where is that thing???:rolleyes: Looked on the tube and around and saw nothing...

Please forgive the implication, but it doesn't sound to me like you have read through the detailed instructions that came with the product, or may need to re-read them. If you still need guidance, please contact us directly. We are the most qualified source to help you correctly implement our product.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I have read them carefuly (and found out about the dimer thing...:p) but about where to put them as i had no guidance, i put them vertically on each side and it looks pretty nice! :)

Some folks like them on the ends, some prefer top and bottom. It depends on how your equipment is installed. Some folks opt for 3 or 4 lights. We have a hard time being too specific due to the vast array of system installation peculiarities. Variables may include: speakers on the wall on each side that block the light, center channel speakers above or below, fireplace mantles, articulating wall mounts that swing the TV away from the wall, furniture on either side that is so close as to block the light, etc., etc. It sounds like you have discovered a pleasing method for your system.

Dear Alan:

This is my first post on AVS. Your insights have been very helpful for me during the "rebirth" of my modest home theater set-up. My wife and I decided to give my parents our 65" Mitsubishi rear projection and replace it with a Sony 52"XBR4. Our family room has 2 large 5' windows on 3 of 4 walls, so we opted to go LCD due to the many reflections on the screen.

My wife insists that the television be mounted, so I have been researching AVS tirelessly looking for ideas and suggestions on redoing the way my wall will be set up. First of all, I don't know how, but I actually convinced her that we "need" to paint some of the wall behind the television (it's currently a light buttercream).....and she agreed to it. I shamelessly used your credentials as evidence as to why this must be done.

I went to a high-end local photo/electronics store and compared some Behr samples to the 18% card and found the closest color was 780F-6 "Dark Granite". "Anonymous" 780F-5 is in the same grey family but one shad lighter, and looks to be a good color too. They thought I was nuts, trying to be so technical as to what paint is behind my TV, and told me not to waste my time. Obviously fans and supporters of yours.

I ordered the Ideal-Lume Panelight last night after 5 hours of endless reading in AVS. I plan on placing them horizontally on the back of the Sony 52XBR4.

For those of you reading this who are research geeks like me, I ordered the Powerbridge Solution DUO as well, to connect both my TV and lights to the power cleaner below with no unsightly cords (the cords ordered from Monoprice--who says this forum isn't influential?) I'm not using a remote for the lights, which is why this option works for me.

I plan on taking before and after pictures of everything, once I get all of my orders, and will post for you to see. I'm going to pick up the TV tonight. The Sony SU-WL500 mount was delivered today. Hopefully I can get started on the wall after the family leaves after Thanksgiving! "Well it's getting late...is it 3pm already? You all better hit the road before dark...byebye." End Scene

BTW, I have read over 1000 posts in the last few days, and have never seen a poster (ALAN aka GEORGE) handle himself more courteously and professionally, even when others give him a hard time about his lights or his insights on room color, or ask him the same question 100 times.

Thanks again for taking the time to write your very thorough posts, Alan.

Chris S.
Syracuse, NY
Equipment:
Sony 52XBR4
YAMAHA HTR5790 Receiver
Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD Cablebox
Samsung DVD 1080D7
Monster Power Center HTS3500
PSB Image 8C and surrounds
PSB Century 300i Fronts
PSB Subsonic 6i

:oBlush! Happy to help. Your encouraging words are deeply appreciated. Sounds like a nice setup.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

i've gone through the first 5 and last 10 pages of this thread but failed to find a setup as funny as mine whereby i could glean some ideas

my 52" LCD sits on this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11234984&search=Sonax%2050%22%20TV%20Stand%20w/%20Mounting%20Bracket&Mo=0&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=0&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=Sonax%2050%22%20TV%20Stand%20w/%20Mounting%20Bracket&Ntt=Sonax%2050%22%20TV%20Stand%20w/%20Mounting%20Bracket&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1) stand @ a 30 degree angle in a rectangular room. The shelves are packed with 2 sat receivers, 2 consoles and 1 boombox with 2 speakers (circa '99) ... it works beautifully for a growing family like mine.

The wall behind it is cream in color while the wall next to it is dark burgundy (don't ask!). The only light in the room comes from a tall 75w 'art-deco' yellow lamp placed 15-18 feet away in the far opposite diagonal corner of the room

The floor is light maple hardwood and bordered by simple white molding.

If any of you back-light vets could give me some ideas to help me make the right decision i'd greatly appreciate it. Maybe someday i will be able to join your ranks and help a newbie like myself :)

Just tell your wife the stand has to have a gray wall behind it, like in the photo.:D

Just tell your wife the stand has to have a gray wall behind it, like in the photo.:D

sure but she'll probably use my head to sand it down first :D

So I've read through this thread pretty thoroughly, and I'm trying to figure out how to achieve smooth complete bias lighting behind my plasma. The plasma will be sitting on a stand approx 12" away from the gray painted recess behind it, with the surrounding wall painted brown.

I really want the lighting to be all around the display, like a halo, not just top/bottom or sides. I also have a complication that I will be wall mounting a center channel above the display, attached to the back wall with one of these:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202070144&dcaid=17768

in order to keep the center channel in line vertically with the left/right speakers...

So one idea is to use a 6500k cool white led rope light approx 9' long and attaching it to the back of the display. I would plug it into the receiver's switched outlet, along with a dimmer to control the brightness of the rope light. Going this route would cost approx $60-70 and would yield full lighting all the way around the display, not just top/bottom or left/right.

these are some rope lights I'm considering:

http://trinorthlighting.com/Store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=47&products_id=177

http://www.birddogdistributing.com/precut-cool-white-2wire-rope-light-p-774.html

Or, I wonder if the double light ideal lume panellight would work well, or whether I'd need to double up (buy 2 panel lights) in order to achieve full illumination without any shadows...but this method would be more than 2x as much as the rope light approach...

I'd appreciate any feedback from people who have gone either way.

Your TV will be 12" from the back wall. That is plenty of room for the illumination from a typical single fluorescent bias light to spread out evenly behind and around the TV.

I'm not sure why you posted those LED product links. Neither claims to provide 6500K illumination. I am suspicious of every claim of LED products to produce 6500K, regardless. Over many years of wanting to develop an LED product, I have yet to find either OEM LEDs or manufactured rope, tube, or other type products any where near 6500K. Many of which instist that they are 6500K. Most have been around 8500K. Some even more blue! One sample that was supposed to be CIE D65 came in at 7500K.

I would not be surprised if the linked product you are considering, which claims to be 5000 to 5500K, is actually around 8500K. You have stimulated my interest enough for me to order a sample. When I get it, I'll measure it with my sprectroradiometer and post the results.

I'm also interested to see if their product can really be dimmed with a conventional lamp dimmer, as they claim. Previously, I have understood that light emitting diodes are either in an on or off state, and can only be dimmed using electronic pulse width modulation, rather than simple line voltage reduction. I'll be delighted if the dimming of LEDs can be done with regular lamp dimmers.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Why don't you guys just buy an Ideal Lume and do it right. I have one mounted on my 52XBR..and it DOES what is claimed...as far as anything else..might as well just hang a string of flashing Christmas lights around the TV..I just don't get it? Why not just buy the light made for it?..All the time & effort spent playing with rope lights, etc...What am I missing?... 6500K Xmas lights?:D

Like Neil Young said: "You pay for this, but they give you that..":)

Well, I spoke with the tri north people and they said those specific rope lights are pretty close to 6500k...the other ones from birddog I realize are a little off, but I wasn't sure if it would be really that big a deal...I'm really just after a smooth halo effect without shadowing from the speaker mount above the tv, and trying to figure out how best to achieve that... so I hoped some people who had tried rope lighting and possibly found some that were truly 6500k could tell me about their experiences...

the problem I see with putting just 1 ideal lume back there is that there'd be long shadows from the wall mount arms supporting the speaker, which would look funny...

I figured with rope lighting I could drape it behind the speaker, on top of the arms so there's no broken lighting/shadows...

OK..I misunderstood...if you're just after looks & not actual function..I guess anything will probably do..Sorry bout' that...:)

I would not be surprised if the linked product you are considering, which claims to be 5000 to 5500K, is actually around 8500K. You have stimulated my interest enough for me to order a sample. When I get it, I'll measure it with my sprectroradiometer and post the results.

I'm also interested to see if their product can really be dimmed with a conventional lamp dimmer, as they claim. Previously, I have understood that light emitting diodes are either in an on or off state, and can only be dimmed using electronic pulse width modulation, rather than simple line voltage reduction. I'll be delighted if the dimming of LEDs can be done with regular lamp dimmers.


If you do end up testing some samples, please post your results - also whether they can be dimmed effectively or not! I would be very interested to see how far off they are from 6500k.

thanks!

How about this idea?

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/33088/2209580320028633866S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2209580320028633866QKuSIR)

using 2 bulbs, use one bulb just behind the speaker for the upper half, and the other bulb behind the TV for the rest of the area.

After reading up opn Bias lighting, I decided to try to come up with an alternate solution for my setup. (no offence George, I think you have an awesome product but after spending a ton on my NT setup in the past month, the wife would kill me if I spent any more money on my HT before X-mas)

So what I did was went to Home Depot and bought a plain old Black Clamp on Desk Lamp and a Philips Daylight CFL that rated at 6500K and 81 CI.

I have this this (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-36-50-TV-Stand-PHANTOM50/sem/rpsm/oid/159257/catOid/-16821/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) stand with a PDP-5080HD attached, sitting Kitty Corner at one corner of my living room that is approx 18" away from the corner at the centre of the PLasma. I clamped the lamp to the back of the stand right in the middle of the TV and aimed the light right into the corner.
I added a bit of Foil to the lamp to control the amount of light spread and brightness and voila, for about $20.00 I have a pretty good bias light.
I watched the Packs-Cowboys game last night which was a good test for eye fatigue, (3 1/2 hour game) and now the only problem I think I will have is that I'll be able to stay up way latter at night watching TV thus probably being late for work every morning. :eek: LOL

As well thge picture is even more awesome then it was before! (even the wife like it).

GeorgeAB,
I bought the Ideal-Lume Panelight (dual fixture) from your store a little over 1 year ago. One of my bulbs has burned out and I need to replace it.

What bulb do I need to order? Is it the F13, T5 fluorescent?

Also, I need an extension cord to connect the 2 lights -- in my current setup, the wire is pretty well stretched to reach both lights and I would actually like to move the lights out from each other another inch or two. I didn't see the extension cord in your web store (maybe I wasn't looking in the correct place). Can you tell me what the part number and price is
so I can order it? Am I correct in assuming that this extension will allow me to connect 2 lights together if the distance between them is a little bit over 1 meter?

thanks,
Murray

Watched another movie last night (Live Free or Die Harder - I know, schlock, but fun). Watched it with the Ideal Lume Standard running for most of the movie, but did turn it off for a bit just to see the difference. Light was turned back on after a few minutes to bring the picture back to life. Great product. Great service. Worth every penny.

MurrayW,

This type of inquiry should be sent to my company via e-mail and not handled on the forum. AVS is not an agent of CinemaQuest, Inc., nor am I an agent of AVS. I post here to help people understand imaging science, display industry standards, viewing environment issues and human perceptual factors better. Thanks.

MurrayW,

This type of inquiry should be sent to my company via e-mail and not handled on the forum. AVS is not an agent of CinemaQuest, Inc., nor am I an agent of AVS. I post here to help people understand imaging science, display industry standards, viewing environment issues and human perceptual factors better. Thanks.GeorgeAB, I did send an email earlier this morning to your company email through your website, but haven't received a response yet. I was hoping to be able to place my order today, that is why I posted here. I have resorted to wearing an eye patch over my right eye to prevent eye-strain from the burned out bulb! :D

Please check your info@cinemaquestinc.com email and reply.

thanks,
Murray

Our spam filter has been over-achieving lately. I found your e-mail and have responded. Sorry about the confusion.

I ordered the Ideal Lume standard a while ago, it took about 3 weeks for delivery (held up at customs) and installed it yesterday, replacing a temporary Clamp-on Desk Lamp with a 7W. compact fluorescent rated at 4600K.

The Ideal Lume is about 26" from the wall, sitting right behind the panel's stand on a small table and gives quite an even spread of light on the back wall (heavy drapes, with low saturated reds/beige/gray which i will eventually change for neutral color drapes.)

I was surprised at how much difference it makes using 6500K lighting. The image is better, and the drape's colors are even less saturated now, so they appear more neutral than before.

On top of that, the fixture looks very good; too bad it's hidden from view.

All in all, a great buy and thanks to you GeorgeAB for spreading the word.

You got one more very happy customer. :-D

I would not be surprised if the linked product you are considering, which claims to be 5000 to 5500K, is actually around 8500K. You have stimulated my interest enough for me to order a sample. When I get it, I'll measure it with my sprectroradiometer and post the results.

I'm also interested to see if their product can really be dimmed with a conventional lamp dimmer, as they claim. Previously, I have understood that light emitting diodes are either in an on or off state, and can only be dimmed using electronic pulse width modulation, rather than simple line voltage reduction. I'll be delighted if the dimming of LEDs can be done with regular lamp dimmers.

I got my 5000-5500K sample from Birddog Dist. Once I get my lab set up to measure the color, I'll report back. To my eye it looks like it's more blue than 6500K.

I did test the dimming capability with a conventional lamp dimmer. It does dim but only by what looked like about 40 to 50%. The dimming scale was erratic and very sensitive, not what I would call very effective. As I adjusted the dimmer, the illumination didn't stay stable. It was really touchy. Extremely minute movement of the dimmer was required to get a change in lumen output.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Here are my lab results for the so-called "5000 to 5500K" LED rope light from Birddog Dist.

Full brightness, not plugged into a dimmer: approx. 11,000 Kelvins, 67 cd/m2
Full brightness, plugged into a dimmer: approx. 10,000 Kelvins, 39.2 cd/m2
Fully dimmed (as far as it would go): approx. 9,000 Kelvins, 13.4 cd/m2

My instrument was a GretagMacbeth EyeOne spectroradiometer, measuring the illumination from the coiled LED rope light, reflecting off of a Munsell, NIST traceable, N7 notation, neutral gray card. This is another example in a long line of encounters with consumer grade lighting companies claiming certain performance characteristics that simply are not true. The most dramatic errors have been with LED products.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Not surprising!..Why they don't just buy the lamp(s) designed for bias-lighting..who knows? Buy a $4K TV..& skimp on everything else...amazing!:)

"The viewing environment is the most frequently ignored element in proper display setup."
Joe Kane

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."
H. L. Mencken

GeorgeAB,

Thanks for posting the results of your tests on here. I really am leaning towards just getting an Ideallume, the problem I have is that in order not to throw shadows, it would need to go behind the speaker like i showed above, which is only 20" wide. So the light would stick out on either side.

I'm trying to figure out if I could make a black baffle to surround the light and hide it from view, while directing the light to shine on only the grey painted recessed area...

these are my problems...

is there any way you could pm/email me a blowup of the baffle mechanism that you provide, so that I can figure out how to make this work with my idea?

Also, the regular ideallume is the same length as each of the panellights, right?

I have this this (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-36-50-TV-Stand-PHANTOM50/sem/rpsm/oid/159257/catOid/-16821/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) stand with a PDP-5080HD attached, sitting Kitty Corner at one corner of my living room that is approx 18" away from the corner at the centre of the PLasma. I clamped the lamp to the back of the stand right in the middle of the TV and aimed the light right into the corner.
I added a bit of Foil to the lamp to control the amount of light spread and brightness and voila, for about $20.00 I have a pretty good bias light.
I watched the Packs-Cowboys game last night which was a good test for eye fatigue, (3 1/2 hour game) and now the only problem I think I will have is that I'll be able to stay up way latter at night watching TV thus probably being late for work every morning. :eek: LOL

As well thge picture is even more awesome then it was before! (even the wife like it).

I have this same exact TV stand too for my Samsung 5054 Plasma. I would love to see pics of the end result if you them.

Thx,
Claude

I have a thought, not sure it would work but here it goes.... While building the wall that the plasma will be mounted on, I thought of installing a GU-10 (dimmable) pot light on the wall right ontop of the plasma mount facing the back of the plasma. The light would be controlled by the Lutron dimmer. Would this work?

huguetguy,

Both models use the same fixture. Photos won't help you. You would need to completely surround the ends of the fixture to block the light as you describe, and to make the exposed ends of the fixture less visible. Don't use anything combustible for an extra margin of safety.

How much space is between the top of your TV and the top of the niche the equipment is mounted in? It sounds to me like the speaker would be better mounted against the top of the niche, then moved forward so the front of the speaker is flush with the wall. The speaker would sound better and your shadow problem would be solved. This is a great example of how difficult it is to suggest solutions for an installation I cannot see.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I have a thought, not sure it would work but here it goes.... While building the wall that the plasma will be mounted on, I thought of installing a GU-10 (dimmable) pot light on the wall right ontop of the plasma mount facing the back of the plasma. The light would be controlled by the Lutron dimmer. Would this work?
Not very well, if I understand what you're suggesting. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "GU-10 pot light." Is that something used in hydroponics to grow marijuana? Is it a surface mounted cannister-type light fixture? What type of bulb or lamp do you intend to use in the fixture?

Why do you want to illuminate the back of the plasma? When you say, "the Lutron dimmer," which dimmer are you referring to? Lutron makes many different dimmers for controlling various kinds of lights and voltages.

How thoroughly have you studied what bias lighting for video displays is supposed to accomplish? Once one understands the fundamentals of this technique, it is much easier to determine what will work in specific installations. If you don't understand what the fundamental objectives are, you'll not likely ever get it right.

Look like we need to setup a limited time group buy on your product George. ;)

How much space is between the top of your TV and the top of the niche the equipment is mounted in? It sounds to me like the speaker would be better mounted against the top of the niche, then moved forward so the front of the speaker is flush with the wall. The speaker would sound better and your shadow problem would be solved.

That's a good idea, but I am having trouble figuring how I could mount the center channel from the top of the niche in a nice looking way...

I also am trying to keep all 3 front speakers somewhat in line, and if I mounted it from above like that, it would be approx 2' higher than the left/right speakers.

I'll keep thinking about it.

I'll keep thinking about it.
Keep in mind that the bias lighting is not your object of focus when enjoying programs. A certain amount of irregularity in how the illumination is distributed is not a significant problem when viewing the display. If it is, you should consider a larger screen, sitting closer, or that you may have the bias lighting adjusted too bright.

Placing the speaker back into the cavity might be causing more problems than arranging your speakers a bit higher. You will have to make that judgement call. Most people don't realize that placing a speaker in a cavity will alter the sound significantly.

Most installations require settling for compromises of one type or another. This is especially true if the room is not purpose-built by someone who understands both imaging science and acoustics. You are the only one who can determine which compromises are acceptable to your lifestyle and sense of priority.

Look like we need to setup a limited time group buy on your product George.
I have tried that in the past and it was a miserable failure. Circuit City tried that last Christmas Season with flat panel TVs, and they almost went out of business because of it. My profit margins are not very high to begin with. Such a marketing technique may work for some, but I prefer to keep my margins within reason but consistent all year long.

Most consumers have no idea what it takes to maintain a business. Many even resent someone making a reasonable profit off of the products they manufacture and sell. "Special" sales are not a game I choose to play. I'll just focus on providing unique value and market my products on their merits. Gee, what a concept!

GeorgeAB,
Thanks very much for your product and support. I installed last weekend. Photo below.
I did the built-in custom cabinets and shelf myself. The bias light really sets it off.
-Crackers

http://app.quickblogcast.com/images/104362-97181/Img2007_12_08_12_23_26.JPG

I posted this in Panasonic forum. Someone asked me if the bias light pictured in previous post was worth it and I responded. I am reposting my response here, especially as it goes well with my photo posted just above...

Yes, I would recommend a bias light for $50. It provides some important function in viewing/perception. I find it provides a reference for proper color lighting. For example, if you have ambient room lighting that is incandescent (warm), your eye will adjust to the warm lighting and think that's neutral when it's not. Same thing happens even in a dark room when you watch a scene too long with certain colors - the eyes becomes used to a certain dominant color temp and think that's neutral when it's not.

If I turn up the room with warm incandescent lighting (or have a roaring fire in my fireplace!), the bias light appears to glow "blue". If I turn down/off the room lighting, the bias light looks perfectly white. Now, I know the bias light is constant; it's my eye's perception that changes. If I have this reference light on, then I can more easily tell colors/color temperatures. Sunrise Discovery HD on this panel looks better, the warm morning light looks warmer with the bias light turned on.

Additionally, it enhances the perception of blacks. A properly tuned plasma is already good in this department, especially this Panasonic. However, the bias light will constrict the pupils a bit (and/or simply contrast it the black) and give the darker blacks a darker look. This is very helpful as I now don't have to turn the brightness down as much to see deep blacks, preserving my top end brightness for whites, hence the overall dynamic range is enhanced. It's all about perception, but "me thinks perception is kinda an important thing here". Oh, and I think it looks cool too.

I bought the cheapest kit from Cinemaquest. It's a small special 6500K bulb with a nifty sleeve jacket on the bulb to adjust light output. It comes with extra bulb and some velcro strips. I simply put it on 2/3rd's the way up the back of the panel, bulb hanging down. It fits almost perfects in a small cavity space stamped on the back panel of the Panasonic, like it was made for it. There is a rocker switch I just reach around and flip it. They make remotes for this, by I am trying to get rid of my remotes, not add them. I'll figure it out, but it's not a problem to reach around on the 50" the way I have it sitting on the pedestal, except maybe I need to be careful not to put fingerprints on the screen frame.

GeorgeAB,
I was watching this installation from cinemaquest website, if i´m not mistaken i can see 4 lamps, i´m correct?

How many lamps do you think a 32" tv will need?
The wall behind the tv is dark brown.

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/img/cqKiller2PanelightInstall02.jpg

If the TV is wall-mounted, you'll need 2 lights. If stand-mounted, one may be enough, but considering your location, you may want to order 2. The extra light could be used on another TV or computer monitor, or given as a gift.

The single lamp, given enough space from the wall, puts out a surprising amount of light. I have a 50" and have to turn the black baffle a bit to restrict some of the light output.

BTW: Nice looking built-in Crackers.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "GU-10 pot light." Is that something used in hydroponics to grow marijuana? Is it a surface mounted cannister-type light fixture? What type of bulb or lamp do you intend to use in the fixture?

FYI - "GU-10" is the style of base used on a 120v MR16 lamp. The main advantage is the ability to use standard incandescent dimmers.

Thanks for the explanation. I could have Googled the info but thought the poster would offer a definition.

MR16 tungsten/halogen lamps are not really suitable for bias lighting. They don't have good light spread at close proximities. Most are between 2800K and 4600K. The best color temperature I've encountered was still only 6000K, and that was an average over the entire spot (center was very blue, turning warmer nearer the perimeter). It was a rare, specialty model, and the manufacturer claimed D65. MR16's spectral power distribution (SPD)is very good, a more elaborate measure of color rendering, but the white point is wrong. They also get extremely hot. When dimmed, the color temp goes much more red in spectrum.

I see many posts regarding the value of bias lighting and questions asking is it worth it. I just received my panelight that I ordered for my plasma (thanks for the fast shipping CinemaQuest). I must admit that I was one of the individuals that did not think too highly of having bias lights because I felt them to be a distraction while movie watching. I prefer the "black hole" look and my setup is arranged in a way to highlight this effect. Having bias lighting behind the PDP would ruin the "black hole floating in space look" that I was after (so I thought).

After testing the setup last light with some source material. I can say I am pleasantly surprised with the outcome. Many of the qualities I enjoy about my display were magnified with the bias lighting. The colors seem to have more saturation, there is an increased sense of depth to the picture and perceived black level is also improved (big plus). I'm a gamer and I was surprised to notice that the games also had more "pop" to them. The best thing is, setting up to try out the lighting was a snap. Literally took them out the box and laid it across the mounting bar of the wall mount, plugged it in and adjusted the baffle. Why anyone would not spend the few bucks on this as opposed to finding a DIY solution is beyond me. Not having to deal with the hassle of finding a perfect solution was more than worth it IMHO.

As noted in prior posts. Getting the lighting evenly dispersed on the wall behind the display is key. My plasma is mounted in an alcove (painted a neutral gray behr paint. I can't remember the name but it's in this thread, and it does enhance the benefits of the bias lighting) on an articulating mount that I pull about 3 feet from the back wall. With that distance, mounted horizontally, one light lit up the wall sufficiently, but since I had two I tried mounting both in a vertical orientation on each end of the panel. That gave me a little more light and dispersion so I will stick with the two, but I could have gone with the one light and been OK.

I had been on the fence I think because most of the implementations of bias lighting that I had seen distracted from the image due to improper setup (incorrect color temp light, too bright, badly dispersed illumination etc.). With the correct color temp. lamp and proper setup, this has been a VERY worthwhile addition to my system.

George thanks for all the helpful info you've provided in this thread and congrats on providing a product that allows me to enjoy my hobby even more.

Cilent1,

You are certainly welcome. I originally developed this product over 9 years ago to fill a need in the industry for a correctly configured bias light. No one was making a pre-assembled solution that did the science right. I knew this only too well as a home theater hobbyist, turned industry professional and ISF grad. For at least 6 years I experimented and burned up a substantial amount of gas and time, shopping for the right components to install in my personal system. I wanted to offer a solution that saved people all that time and trouble.

Like you, I love home theater and am actually a consumer.....my God, can it really be true!!!!!:eek: I do my utmost to treat my customers like I would want to be treated. My prevailing passion at this stage in my professional life is to serve as an aggressive advocate of imaging science, display industry standards, and ideal viewing environment solutions. That is the main reason why I contribute on the AVS forum. I have learned much here and want to give back. Imaging science works for everyone who applies it.

Let me assure you, I am by no means getting rich off of Ideal-Lumes. I believe value speaks for itself over time. Most of my income is derived from designing and installing custom home theaters. My entertainment system customers are very happy. That makes me happy. The detailed explanation of your experience with the bias light you got from my company is encouraging for me. Thanks for taking the time.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hey Everybody:

This is certainly not meant to be a plug, but I felt I should share my experience the last 2 weeks with Alan and Ryan at Ideal-Lume. Before I begin, let me say that if I had a negative experience, I would share it with you, but I didn't.

CinemaquestInc is one of the best companies I have ever dealt with, and I do business with a LOT of them. I realize this thread isn't for company promotion, but obviously if you are reading about bias lighting, you should know that the Ideal-lume fixture and bulbs and the representatives are fantastic.

I am in the process of re-doing my home theater. Two weeks ago I ordered the panel-light for my new KDL-52xbr4. Unfortunately, one of them had an electrical short and stopped working the first night. It happens. Alan and Ryan at Cinemaquest 2-day shipped me a replacement, and it works like a champ. My wife (and I) likes the way the TV looks so much with the lights on the side, I ordered a 3rd this week for the top.

Next, here is the tip to save you money. I was at a local lighting store and bought some back-up bulbs for my fixtures, in the event that I needed one. I thought they were the same as the Ideal-lume lights. They are T5 13watt 6500k. I put one in to test and it was horrible. The Ideal-lume produces a very nice, "neutral" light on the wall, where the other one had a very green tint, which looked horrible. I didn't realize I missed one thing: Ideal-lume CRI is 90, while these were 70.

Here is an explanation of CRI (Color Rendering Index) I got from a google search:

"Color rendering describes how a light source makes the color of an object appear to human eyes and how well subtle variations in color shades are revealed. The Color Rendering Index (CRI) is a scale from 0 to 100 percent indicating how accurate a "given" light source is at rendering color when compared to a "reference" light source.

The higher the CRI, the better the color rendering ability. Light sources with a CRI of 85 to 90 are considered good at color rendering. Light sources with a CRI of 90 or higher are excellent at color rendering and should be used for tasks requiring the most accurate color discrimination."

In layman's terms, if in the future you need to replace one of your bulbs, and they have different CRI, your TV will have 2 VERY different glows. Do yourself a favor and stick with the Ideal-lume bulbs.

I did the rope light with my big 65" Mitsubishi. That was fine, but my TV looks like the cover of Home Theater Magazine with the Panel-lights behind it. After I get my new entertainment console, I will post a picture.

Sincerely,
Chris S.
Syracuse, NY

Just ordered the two light Ideal-Lume Panelight set and can't wait for it to arrive. I love it when a maufacturer/retailer gets involved in a site like this.
The kit will be going on a wall mounted Panny 42" PZ77U (not sure on the exact distance from the wall yet) with the wall painted a beige/tan (Benjamin Moore color Creamy-Custard) that has a slight brown/orange tint to it. I will have the center channel mounted above television so the Ideal-Lume lights will be mounted on vertically on the sides.

yup me too ;)

I have to report my current issues with my Idealume. The velcro failed, so I added additional velcro to try and remedy the problem (I fly R/C airplanes and have lots of sticky back velcro laying around). This did not work as the additional velco failed as well. The sticky back is pulling free from the TV. I believe it is due to the proximity to a large heat source on the rear of the TV (I used the wipes when I first installed the velcro on the TV, the subsequent additional velcro was placed on areas cleaned with alcohol prior to application).
I have moved the lamp to a higher position and added new velcro to this location. Hopefully that will resolve the adhesion issue... I'm not totally happy with the location, as it is significantly higher than it was before. I'll need to watch a few movies to decide if this is a real issue, if so, I might have to explore alternative mounting options.

I'm wondering if a backlight could help solve a headache issue in a well lit room.

I'm sitting 9 feet away on a couch directly opposite my brand new Sony 40XBR4. We have table lamps next to the couch and leave them on. One of the lamps reflects slightly into the TV but I'm used to that and it has never bothered me. The TV is installed inside a new wallunit. Previously we had only a 20" CRT so this is a big step up in size.

I am farsighted and wear progressive (Varilux) eyeglasses. In the bedroom for example where I am 10 feet from a 27" CRT I always must look out of the top (distance) part of my glasses.

I feel like I am sitting in the front row of a movie theater with the XBR4. In fact it had been suggested that for my distance i should have gone 46". No way I could have handled that.

The XBR4 is 120 frame rate so I wonder if that could also be the problem. I have turned off montion enhancer and cinemotion.

Perhaps I need to give this more time for my eyes and brain to adjust, but I was wondering if anyone has had problems like this and they were helped with a backlight?

Thanks much.

So far, the Philips TVs have not performed as well as several other brands, in basic picture quality and features. This has been a consistent pattern year after year. They are usually less expensive than many similar sets.

The 'Ambilight' feature in "6500K" mode has been reviewed as not very accurate. I have seen it work at trade shows and on TV, but never had a sample to test thoroughly. Every version I've seen appears to be a very expensive, but clumsy attempt at the technique.

I don't understand why they insist on departing from proven imaging science, display industry standards, and recommended practice. Perhaps they think they have to come up with some unique feature to distinguish themselves in the marketplace. In my experience, simply giving consumers an accurate image would be very noteworthy, since hardly any TV does this without professional calibration and/or modification, if at all.

Philips has succeeded as far as they have because they perform market research and conduct focus groups. They don't regard image fidelity as a superior design goal. This is because most consumers are initially impressed by distorted images, and have become adapted to distorted images over time, including many people on this forum. This is a simple fact of life, a basic characteristic of human nature, and will likely always be. The masses are always prone to become comfortable with mediocrity, especially if it comes at a lower price.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

ambx.com here you can see what they where aiming for weither they succeeded or not :)

Well philips have gotten great reviews for their LCDs... Their top one not cheap ones... M3 a swedish magazine have ranked it up with sony on LCD department... some year ago when I bought my now obsolete XBR 1 lcd lol. However also mentioned that the ambilight feature don´t really make much of a difference.

However if you are wondering what they are aiming for it´s this www.ambx.com. I have my doubts how useful it is in movies that don´t have been produced with this in mind since I expect it will screw up the colours but who knows :). In forums like this where people want as accurate image as possible I don´t think it´s a big deal until "ambx produced" movies is released which will probably never happen. But isn´t we like 5 % of the average customer? Nobody really cares about us. The flag ships is there for PR reasons since 95 % of the customers is not dumb enough to by tv sets for 5000$. Pioneer is I guess the only one that can feed on the real tv nerds :) Others like sony, samsung, philips make the big profits on their budget models.

As for AMBX I just ordered one. Mostly for gaming that are developed with this in mind and music listening. I don´t think I will use it for movies will see. It´s ridiculously expensive but I just have to try everything :).

I checked out the AMBX site. Quite the ambitious endeavor! I expect it will offer unique entertainment aspects for some gamers that will expand their experience. My field is image fidelity and it's well proven that colored ambient lighting interferes with human color perception of electronic displays. I've also yet to be sufficiently impressed with LCD panels compared to other available types of displays.

Few consumers and even too few professionals have ever been exposed to reference images. Most HDTVs can be satisfying without a reference to compare them to. Manufacturers know this. Excellence in any field comes at a higher price. Gimmicks can dazzle and fascinate but real image fidelity is of utmost importance to me.

I just returned from consulting at Skywalker Ranch for a special project. One of the PhDs with THX and I talked quite a bit about the electronic games industry. He's over their THX Games certification program. As long as consumers purchase any given game title, without due regard for image accuracy, it's an extra expense many game producers are reluctant to invest in. The movie industry is much more consistently concerned about artistic integrity.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

As for movies some artists may not look at the movie like a movie more how it´s done whereas others are after the feel and entertainment. So it doesn´t have to be a "gimmick" if it really immerses you and make you feel more a part of the experience. In theater speech it´s referred as breaking the 4th wall. I had a problem for a while I wasn´t enjoying the movies more looking for errors but I am cured now.

But as said I don´t think the HIFI video people will ever like it for the reasons you mentioned :)

Dunno will see but as mentioned I have my doubts how well this would work for movies as well especially that isn´t made for it. As for games since computers still don´t have the hardware for photorealistic images though Crysis is getting pretty close at times. Many games aim for more artistic looks instead. As for accurate colours well it´s even less true for games in general there it´s all about immersion that truly matters since you interact with your environment in a total other way then watching a movie.

Doom as a movie was quite average but that fps sequence was awesome :D

The flag ships is there for PR reasons since 95 % of the customers is not dumb enough to by tv sets for 5000$.
This statement erodes your credibility. They would be "dumb" to spend that much money if they didn't find sufficient value in the product. Are you implying that no TV could possibly provide that much objective value? What do you think of $45,000.00 broadcast monitors? Can they possibly perform that much better?

It´s ridiculously expensive....
Using your logic, this doesn't reflect well on you does it?

As for movies some artists may not look at the movie like a movie more how it´s done whereas others are after the feel and entertainment.
Please re-state this more clearly. I have trouble making sense of it.

Many people would have trouble seeing the difference in image quality between a 50000$ and 5000$ monitor. There has even been tons of blind tests where people couldn´t see difference between dvd and hd dvd movies on even 50" monitors. I am speaking bang for the buck here only the real crazy people with to much money would think it´s worth it have no problem standing for that. From my perspective I would never buy a 50000$ monitor and I doubt I would even buy a 5000$ monitor ever :).

I don´t see any wrong in commenting that the ambx set is ridiculously expensive for what hardware you get with it. Don´t cost that much to produce that´s for sure. I am not saying I am smarter then anyone else in this thread you see ;)

As for the last I mean some look at movies more for how they look how accurate the image is while some are more interested in the action and the story. If you are to much into how it looks you have a harder time really enjoying a good movie. Even if the image looks perfect you are still looking for errors rather then enjoying the movie... Which of course is fine if you aren´t really interested in movies more the hunt for the perfect image :). For people who are buying tvs to watch tv, movies play games they may have less issue with ambient lightning that can mess up colours somewhat but instead gets you more into the experience. Which I afterall estimate is the majority just like there isn´t that many people that spend 100000$ on their audio equipment either.

Hope you understand I see no wrong in either mind set but personally I find more enjoyment in my movies and games if I fully concentrate on them. That said it´s fun to calibrate your tv and such as well but I forget about all that while actually watching movies or playing games or whatever.

Graphics in the end doesn´t make a good movie or game or whatever you get used to what you have sooner or later. I enjoy metroid prime 3 on my wii that only supports 720x480 I think it´s and looks absolutely horrible on my 32" lcd... Don´t think I have the best upscaler either. That is until you get used to it and it starts to actually look good :). Was quite incredible to see playing Re 4 Wii the first days I had actually problem to see what it was on screen... But after some week playing it I thought it looked good guess our brains are god at processing images for us. If I in the meanwhile play games on my PC or 360 in HD I will have to take some day to recalibrate my eyes for the wii again but I don´t really get more immersed in those games despite the graphics is so much better...

It´s story and gameplay for games as well as sound and in movies story, action as well as sound that truly matters.

Sound seems to have a bigger impact for me then image quality for some reason.

Many people would have trouble seeing the difference in image quality between a 50000$ and 5000$ monitor.
"Many people" are blind, have poor vision, and/or simply don't value, or have much interest in image accuracy in a display. That doesn't make them more intelligent or sane than those who do find a worthwhile difference.
There has even been tons of blind tests where people couldn´t see difference between dvd and hd dvd movies on even 50" monitors.
"Tons?" Please define and document this assertion. I would need to know more about the conditions of such a test before I would have any respect for the claimed results. There is no shortage of poorly conducted focus groups, tests and surveys in this industry. It's also true that there is an abundance of professionals in the industry who do not follow imaging science, display industry standards, or take into account human perceptual factors.
I am speaking bang for the buck here only the real crazy people with to much money would think it´s worth it have no problem standing for that.
English must not be your native language. You are making it very clear how you view the world. I couldn't disagree with you more here. Successful people who have earned their wealth, can afford excellence in what interests them, and support the early adoption of cutting edge technologies, will not be considered "real crazy" or possessing "too much money" by anyone with a mature and rational outlook on life.
As for the last I mean some look at movies more for how they look how accurate the image is while some are more interested in the action and the story. If you are to much into how it looks you have a harder time really enjoying a good movie. Even if the image looks perfect you are still looking for errors rather then enjoying the movie... Which of course is fine if you aren´t really interested in movies more the hunt for the perfect image
In logic, this is referred to as a false dilemma- where two opposing positions are presented as the only options. I enjoy movies AND I appreciate fine technical presentations of movies. While the expression of your opinions on bias lighting, display quality, calibration, etc., is certainly available on this forum, readers will decide what to learn from and what to ignore. What has worked reliably for me has been to focus on long established display industry standards, principles of imaging science, and demonstrable human perceptual factors, rather than personal preference, popular fad, unsupported assertions, isolated anecdotal experiences, and individual opinion.
Sound seems to have a bigger impact for me then image quality for some reason.
Perhaps you would more enjoy contributing in the audio or gaming sections of this forum.:)

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

http://m3.idg.se/ Swedish magazine so won´t help you much I assume. The funny thing is that they had two reference group one with people proclaimed experts selling these television sets and a group of amateurs... The result was quite similar. They made another a couple of years ago the result was quite the same between lcd and plasma back then too.

As for the dilemma it´s not false or you are talking against yourself?
You say coloured lightning affects the colours on screen... I say the same... Thus there is a dilemma here you have to choose. More accurate colours in room versus on display. Will be interesting to see how it works for me :)

As for how I view the world... Well as I said there is much other things that is more important that I would want to invest my money in. If so I would probably get a porsche cayenne or something instead and buy a house near nordschleife or if I get filthy rich buy a place in force indias F1 team ;).

I would probably get a 5000$ tv then if I had that amount of cash though lol.

So I've got a Samsung FP-T5884 plasma. From what I've read it seems best to use 6500k lighting. So do I just pick up some rope light and attach it to the back of the t.v.?

The color of light you should use is the same as the white point for video. That's CIE D65, loosely referred to as 6500 Kelvins. I have yet to see any rope light that comes anywhere near 6500K, including the LED stuff claiming to be that color temperature. The products I've tested samples of, claiming to be 6500K, were between 8500K and 11000K. That's obviously too blue in appearance.

It's apparent you have not read nearly enough about this subject to be making decisions. You will be much better off investing the time to learn how to do it correctly. This thread contains just about everything you would need to know, although it's a bit daunting to plow through it all. You can get the basic principles here: www.cinemaquestinc.com .

Thanks George. I'll try to read through it.

You are still not even listening...

To make it super clear from the first post about this subject

"However if you are wondering what they are aiming for it´s this www.ambx.com. I have my doubts how useful it is in movies that don´t have been produced with this in mind since I expect it will screw up the colours but who knows . In forums like this where people want as accurate image as possible I don´t think it´s a big deal until "ambx produced" movies is released which will probably never happen. But isn´t we like 5 % of the average customer? Nobody really cares about us. The flag ships is there for PR reasons since 95 % of the customers is not dumb enough to by tv sets for 5000$. Pioneer is I guess the only one that can feed on the real tv nerds Others like sony, samsung, philips make the big profits on their budget models."

From my last where I couldn´t possible be clearer

You say coloured lightning affects the colours on screen... I say the same... Thus there is a dilemma here you have to choose. More accurate colours in room versus on display. Will be interesting to see how it works for me


And then you go on again and again how the colours is inaccurate and how I don´t understand it...

Quote me where I say coloured back light DOESNT affect the colours on screen! It´s not what we are discussing and it´s not the point with these ambilight technology... It´s not there to reproduce accurate colours but instead enhance the lightning in your room rather on your television set...

There we have the dilemma which your posts seem to agree upon even if you say you disagree lol. Even though my english is quite bad can´t be that hard to understand.

I tried reading through most of the posts. I am planning on getting a product from CinemaQuest. I have a 50" 5084 Samsung on its stand around 1.5 feet from the wall. Do I need two lights or one?. What is the length of deal-Lume Standard ?.

I got two for my 32" but gave away one to my brother in christmas present. I do have a LCD they have no problem with brightness and had to dim it max when I calibrated it with DVE. My monitor is very close to the wall though so get quite a lot of reflections from the wall as well. Two is probably only needed if you want to get as even spread as possible. It´s quite good on my 32" with only one though :)

There is also no problem adding another light if you need one later on.

Alright, finally chugged through 32 pages of this thread...lots of info. I believe I've finally got this figured out, but just want to make sure. I've got a 58'' screen and it is sitting on a stand which is 14'' from the wall. I can move it closer if need be. From what I've gathered, I'll have to get the Ideal-Lume Standard. My only concern is whether or not I need to buy 2 of them. Some people are just using one and others are using 2 putting them vertical on each side of the screen. Thanks!

If my set will be at an angle from the wall, do I need two lamps so the light each light can be adjusted such that the wall is illuminated evenly? The right edge of the TV will be just touching the wall and the left edge will be 12-14 inches out from the wall.

What are my options for reducing the light output on my 15 watt JFC daylight ? Cheap plastic filter? Someone on this thread mention tin foil?
I will probably buy the Ideal Lume later, but I just want to try my fixture to see how I like bias lighting. The CRI is probably really low as was given to me by someone using it as a plant light.

Geek101 & ch1sox,

You should only need one light, unless your wall is unusually dark. The lengths of the products are listed in the store descriptions.

Johnnylighton,

You can actually remove the rotating mechanical baffle tube, then twist the light block film in the tube to gradually vary the light output along the length of the lamp, or you can get the Panelight model that includes two lights.

avhed,

Improvise.

oqvist,

I'm sorry, but it appears we are incapable of effectively communicating with each other in a coherent manner. It's probably best if we just leave this dialog as it is.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

oqvist,

I'm interested in reaching a better understanding with you. However, it would probably be better to correspond via e-mail. I believe this process in the forum is too tedious for the general readership.

You can actually remove the rotating mechanical baffle tube, then twist the light block film in the tube to gradually vary the light output along the length of the lamp, or you can get the Panelight model that includes two lights.

Thanks, George. :)

Hello Everyone. I wanted to get the forum's opinion on my current backlighting setup. Does the lighting I have on the ceiling provide enough bias? Should I be using bulbs with different color output? Does having the lighting on the ceiling get the job done or do I need something more focused on the perimeter of the tv.

Thanks for all your opinions oh and sorry if the picture isn't that great. If needed, I can try and get a better one.

My truly terrible bias lighting setup...

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8294/biassm4.jpg
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5977/thesourcewa6.jpg

A simple lamp =)

(Sorry for the crap photos, only camera is on my cell phone. And before you say anything, yes, those are horrible computer speakers, I just graduated from college a couple months ago so I'm working with what I have).

My truly terrible bias lighting setup...

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8294/biassm4.jpg

A simple lamp =)

(Sorry for the crap photos, only camera is on my cell phone. And before you say anything, yes, those are horrible computer speakers, I just graduated from college a couple months ago so I'm working with what I have).Was the sun setting or rising when you took that photo? :D

Once anyone understands the basic principles of video bias lighting, all the particulars for a given installation can be determined. You must get the fundamentals in your head first. This is true for any endeavor. What are your goals? What are you trying to achieve?

This stuff has been around for decades with virtually no change. I have provided all the fundamentals, the basic history, the objectives, the benefits, the technical requirements, on my web site. Whether you use any of the practical solutions I supply or not, all the basic principles can be gleaned from the information I have there.

Save yourself and the rest of the readers of this thread a lot of wasted time. Why speculate, guess, wonder and question about the fundamentals when they are so simple to locate and comprehend? Do a little homework and get most or all of your questions answered. I didn't make this stuff up. It's all from imaging science, display industry standards and recommended practice, human perceptual factors research, and color studies.

Here's a link for basic information about video viewing environment principles: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm .

Here's a link for basic information about bias lighting: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm .

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Use a 6.5k bulb(s) and cut it with a tinfoil shade and you're good to go.
That'd be MY opinion.
And then get decent speakers.
I'm a sound mixer and love my TV, but love my TV even more when my surround system is functioning at full tilt!

:)

I didn't read this entire thread but read enough to like the idea of backlighting. I put the standard light on my Christmas list and I got one. My 42" plasma is mounted on a freestanding base and is about 8" off the wall. My TV is set into a recess in the wall so that the front of the TV is almost flush with the wall. I simply set the light on the top of the arms to the stand. I will probably play with the location of the light some but am happy with the addition of the light. To me it appears that there is more depth to the picture and the colors seem to pop more. I need to figure out a way to block the light from going above and below the TV. In the picture posted above you can see how much light is escaping above and below the TV, mine is similar but I have shelves above and equipment below my TV and I don't want light hitting those things. I think it would look best having the light coming from all sides equal distance from the edge of the TV. Overall I am very happy that I got the light.

Use a 6.5k bulb(s) and cut it with a tinfoil shade and you're good to go.
.....as long as you don't inadvertently bridge the gap between the metal pins of the lamp tube with the foil!

Just finished my setup. I used an LED Rope light, much whiter than the other rope lights. The type of rope I picked gives the light this fire look, im really digging it. I have a 50" panasonic, and the 12' lights JUST made it all the way around, I can't even spare an inch.

Here are a few pics, the first one is with a REALLY long shutter speed, and it shows how the light throws that flame pattern on the wall.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb55/81citation/IMG_0954800x600.jpg

This next one shows more of the actual color of the screen
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb55/81citation/IMG_0950800x600.jpg

The true color of the lights is somewhere between those two pics.

I can honestly say that the backlighting really does help with the impression of darker blacks, and saves your eyes form excess strain.

Those are awesome Golden, do all the LED rope lights give that effect or is it just the one you have?

I wanted to purchase a Standard Ideal Lume for my bedroom based on my panel size (32"). From what I've read it is best to mount the light on the panel but this is not an option for me. Will I still benefit from the light if I place it on the wall directly behind the set? The set is 19" away from the wall. I can also mount it on the stand (which is pretty large) using the supplied sticky tape but at that point the light would be positioned below the TV. This would put the light 5" away from the wall. I believe the light can be aimed upward at an angle correct? Which (if any) of these two options would be best? Thanks!

Those are awesome Golden, do all the LED rope lights give that effect or is it just the one you have?

I don't know if all of them do it, but I knew I was going to get some "hot spots" with any rope light. If you are looking for an even glow, you might want to try straight tubes.

I actually prefer the look I have over the even glow look, it gives it some style.

Which (if any) of these two options would be best?
Get it and try both methods. I can't recommend anything conclusively without being there. You are the expert on the design of your installation and related equipment. Most installations necessitate some initial experimentation to get the best effect. Try duct tape to locate the light temporarily. Once you have found a location you like, mount it more permanently.

Until I locate an LED product that actually comes close to 6500K, I can't recommend any for video backlighting. Every LED product I have tested that claims to be 6500K has been between 7500K and 11000K! Most are extemely blue in color temperature. This will invariably skew your color perception of the image on the TV. If image fidelity is not a dominant priority, go for it. Some of the benefits of bias lighting can still be achieved, just not the color fidelity part.

Just wanted to give some quick and positive feedback about my experience having recently received and installed an Ideal-Lume Panelight over the holidays.

I used the included Velcro tape to mount the two lights vertically on the back of my 50PZ700U. What a difference!

With the bias lights on and all proximate lighting turned off, my eyes are more relaxed, my black levels look a fair bit darker, and the colors (skin tones!) seem to be more accurate on screen.

Who knew that it was the incandescent (GE reveal :confused:) lighting in the room that caused me to futz somewhat endlessly with my pq settings.

Thanks for the outstanding product George. I was initially somewhat dubious that 6500k lighting would make a significant difference in my viewing, but your posts eventually sold me on it. I wish I had bought one months ago.

George, I'm considering this for my new 50" panasonic plasma. The black levels are outstanding and the TV sits in an entertainment center with only half an inch verticle opening space and 1.5 inches opening on each side of the hutch that encloses the TV.

I'm wondering if the bias lighting would be necessary for my situation. I'm worried that:

- I never watch TV in a totally dark room
- The TV already has awesome black levels
- The entertainment center has 3 soft glow bulbs in the upper section of the hutch so there's a little light already there to help the eyes.

Here's the setup. Would I see much benefit to the bias lighting?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/fastredponycar/Plasma/IMG_8900.jpg

You can still get some benefit if you watch in a dark room. Your TV is very reflective. The color of your built in lighting is far from 6500K, so you could gain some color fidelity. You would have to move your cabinet away from the wall a bit and install bias lighting behind it to illuminate the wall behind. Primary seating is pretty far from the TV for its size. You'll have to weigh all the features, benefits, cost and lifestyle issues for yourself.

Yeah the lights in the top part of the ent.center have 3 dimness settings but they're a soft glow of yellow/orange. Standard halogen.

The floor lamp next to the window there always is on and unless we open the blinds right behind where I'm standing when I took that picture, there's no glare from any light sources. I think I got lucky on that one.

Viewing distance on the small chair to the left there is 8 feet to the screen and 10.5~11 feet.

The wife may spring for a light behind the TV itself but not sure about lighting from behind the whole shebang.

Thanks for the input though.

oqvist,

I'm interested in reaching a better understanding with you. However, it would probably be better to correspond via e-mail. I believe this process in the forum is too tedious for the general readership.

Well no worries I have moved on since long.

I got my ambx setup some weeks ago... Game support is surprisingly good it can create light effects in most games though it works best in games that are optimized for it like Crysis... Dive into the shadows and see the lightning dim out is a damn nice touch and vice versa... Being blinded by the sun etc and view turning red while shot...

I wish they would have a demo video for movies though at least... In the works but nothing yet... However there was actually a backdoor to get it working... Not officially supported by ambx but got it to run with media player classic. No stereo though which other similar products has which is a bit of a minus I guess... But well I guess that will be fixed with new drivers some day.

I didn´t expect much but I was pleasently surprised... One thing I wonder the satellites to have the back light on them and pull them away some from the screen seem to give the impression of a bigger image... Even in movies where there isn´t many colour transitions going on I tried both running the ideallume and the ambx and found that I actually to my surprise preferred the ambx solution... Now we are not talking ground breaking stuff here but for sure I feel I miss something when just running a standard back light. Since I have them further away you just detect them with the pheripheral vision thus I can have them quite a bit brighter then I have the ideallume lights.

In the beginning there was both a wow factor of course but also a bit of a distraction not used to the entire room changing colour in coordination with whats happening on screen but now it just feels natural. As for colours I think I need to see them screen to screen to see what difference it could make really hard otherwise especially since I don´t have a digital camera. Obviously for me don´t distort them enough to notice it.

Now the product could be better... There is not much smoothness when it changes colours. It can display tons of colours but it kind of blinks in between instead of smooth transitions. This is the same for whatever I use them for so seems to be some limitation with the led lights or something it uses unless it´s to save performance.. Also you can´t fill a big room with just one set then you need something more powerful... For my little 10 m2 room it works great though even if I can see the benefit of adding another set for even more saturated colours :).

Also in some movies it´s god damn spectacular... I watched alien the first movie where they enter the alien ship. If you remember it´s quite an intense scene... Whole room turns blue like the alien ship and the lights dim when the headlights go off and go super bright when it´s facing you it´s spectacular to say the least really immerses you. It´s like the movie was made for it... In other movies with more regular lightning it´s mostly settles for the white back light I am kind of used to by now so it´s not trying to overdo it which I am greatful of just flashing colours all the time.

It´s also really nice for music listening and hopefully they will be making progress with their software for web pages as well quite interesting stuff really.

What I really wish for is a ambx optimized movie to see how spectacular that turns out. I think Philips is doing things right supporting this technology for sure.

I suggest you start a new thread dedicated to colored ambient lighting effects, perhaps in the gaming section of the forum. This is a serious tangent that deserves its own discussion as the technology develops.

Ok you has been reported!

You are not the original poster and this thread is about bias lightning (back lightning). You can create another thread about coloured back lightning if you really think it´s that important. Or you can create your own thread to market your products.

Ok you has been reported!

You are not the original poster and this thread is about bias lightning (back lightning). You can create another thread about coloured back lightning if you really think it´s that important. Or you can create your own thread to market your products.

my friend you are wrong

GeorgeAB is probably the most respected expert on back lighting on AVS (or anywhere):

please be kind

Thanks

Agreed!..and especially since anything but 6500K backlighting is worthless anyway..(except for the Holiday Season...when yellow, green or blue lights really set off the decorations in the room!:D)..I have an Ideal Lume light, & it does exactly what it's supposed to do (as it's made for exactly that purpose)...The other "junk"..well..is just worthless, display-wise..(but probably look's cool at Christmas time though, & probably only cost's $9.95..what a bargain!) You asked for advice..and it was given..You can buy junk, or something designed for that purpose..I think you should take heed to the expert advice given by an expert in this forum...but that's only my opinion...I'm sure the backlighting experts at Home Depot can offer alternative "expert" advice also....They might recommend a revolving ballroom light..now that's innovative!

Ok you has been reported!

You are not the original poster and this thread is about bias lightning (back lightning). You can create another thread about coloured back lightning if you really think it´s that important. Or you can create your own thread to market your products.


Not really sure what went on in here and don't really care but as the OP I would appreciate it greatly if people would not crap in my thread.

Thank you!! :)

PS George AB responding in this thread is in no way to be construed as "crapping".

Have a great and eye fatigueless day!!

Well, liking what I saw here in this thread, I decided to add some bias lighting to my rig. It's a couple of 12" tubes wired through a remote AC outlet, so I can turn them on without having to get up. :o

I like the end result with the exception of two issues:

1) My TV is in the corner of a room so much more of the bias light enters the room than I'd prefer, as opposed to just hitting the wall.

2) Though the lights themselves are a nice, crisp white, my walls are painted a creamy yellowish color giving the light more of a warm yellow hue than I'd prefer.

The pictures look MUCH more yellow than real life, chock that up to my point-and-shoot. Oh, and it's my girlfriend watching Gray's Anatomy in the picture, not me. :p

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e375/bassplayrr/STP80448.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e375/bassplayrr/STP80445.jpg

1) My TV is in the corner of a room so much more of the bias light enters the room than I'd prefer, as opposed to just hitting the wall.
I don't see any attempt to regulate the brightness of the lamps. Your picture appears like the bias lighting is way too bright, not 10% or less of the TV's peak white. Am I mistaken here?

It's a bit brighter than I would like, but a the brightness in the photo is VERY misleading, again attributed to a quick picture on a point-and-shoot. It is higher than 10%; if I had to assign a percentage I'd say it's closer to 20-25% as it stands.

That being said, if the TV were closer to a flat wall, I'd probably be happy as-is. Since it isn't, I am keeping my eyes open for a lower wattage tube set-up or LEDs to dim it a bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since I have a tube/ballast set-up there is no way to dim the current lights electronically, right? This whole set-up, TV, lights and all, is new and still in the "developmental" stage. I'm more than open to input.

It's a bit brighter than I would like, but a the brightness in the photo is VERY misleading, again attributed to a quick picture on a point-and-shoot. It is higher than 10%; if I had to assign a percentage I'd say it's closer to 20-25% as it stands.

That being said, if the TV were closer to a flat wall, I'd probably be happy as-is. Since it isn't, I am keeping my eyes open for a lower wattage tube set-up or LEDs to dim it a bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since I have a tube/ballast set-up there is no way to dim the current lights electronically, right? This whole set-up, TV, lights and all, is new and still in the "developmental" stage. I'm more than open to input.

Have you checked out these bias lights? The brightness is readily adjusted, AND they're color-balanced to 6500K.
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lumesb.htm

I'm going to be installing a set on my Pioneer 6010 in the next week or so ... I'll post a pic or two once everything's set.

I didn't know the name of those lights or where to buy them, but I do remember seeing the sample photo (the one with Conanl O'B. on the screen) somewhere in this thread.

This seems pretty cool...

"This new model no longer requires an optional dimming filter kit for adjusting its light output. We have devised a simple and permanent rotating mechanical baffle tube that is included with this model. Once the light is installed behind the TV and turned on, just rotating the baffle tube will adjust how much light is reflecting off the wall. This method allows for continuous variable dimming. "

I'd be very interested to see some photos when you've installed these.

I can tell you that I have a set of Idealume lights on each of my flat panels and they make a world of difference. Listen to George, he knows his stuff.

I'd be very interested to see some photos when you've installed these.
Readers must understand that photos of proper bias lighting implementation have never, can never and will never effectively communicate anywhere near the full effectiveness and benefits of the technique. Bias lighting is not a decorator item. It's not intended to be.

How bias lighting appears in a photo has no relation to its value, nor how it appears in a dark room from a viewer's perspective. The reason this is true is due to the unique perceptual condition of dark-adapted human vision while viewing a brightly glowing TV screen.

New visitors to this thread should be cautious about concluding from a superficial, "drive by," appraisal of the topic, how to implement the technique correctly. The principles are relatively simple, but taking the time to study the details will avoid a lot of false starts, wrong and wasteful purchases, and incomplete or unconvincing results.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Great post, G. Alan Brown.

How bias lighting appears in a photo has no relation to its value, nor how it appears in a dark room from a viewer's perspective. The reason this is true is due to the unique perceptual condition of dark-adapted human vision while viewing a brightly glowing TV screen.


Point well taken. I see on the product webpage that there is a dealer near me here in CA. Do you happen to know if most of your dealers carry the Ideal-Lume lights in stock so that an in-person test can be done? My photo, and its brightness levels, are proof positive that photos are deceiving. I'd really like to see these in person before purchasing.

George,

I want to order one of your lights. I have a 60" RP TV that sits in a cabinet with 4" on each side, 8" on top, and about 4" from the back of the TV to the wall behind it (obviously no distance beneath it, since it sits on a stand). I want the light to be as evenly distriuted as possible. Will one light work best for this, or your 2-light kit?

If one light, I was thinking about installing it on the base of the stand shining up. Is this the best way for a RP TV?

Point well taken. I see on the product webpage that there is a dealer near me here in CA. Do you happen to know if most of your dealers carry the Ideal-Lume lights in stock so that an in-person test can be done? My photo, and its brightness levels, are proof positive that photos are deceiving. I'd really like to see these in person before purchasing.
You should contact the dealer near you. I don't know what they have in inventory or what may be set up to view.

If one light, I was thinking about installing it on the base of the stand shining up. Is this the best way for a RP TV?
Please realize that it's very difficult for me to see your setup through your eyes. Most times, these types of descriptions fall far short of really communicating how the product ought to be implemented. I have tried to be as thorough as possible in describing the fundamental principles of the technique and also the physical characteristics of my solutions. You seem to have a good enough grasp of what would work. It sounds like one light will be sufficient and your suggested mounting method also sounds workable. Be prepared to do a little experimentation to get the best effect.

What if my TV will be against a wall painted with an "accent" color (which can be described as caramel or perhaps tawny). Do I need some sort of tunable-color light to offset this such that the COMBINATION of the wall and the bias lighting results in a color temp of 6500K?

Question has anyone used something like this to turn their bias lights on and off
automatically as the TV is turned on and off?

woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5855

I am just concerned my TV (sony 52" lcd XBR4) would not draw enough of a load for it to sense it. Any thoughts?

Those things look like they need to sense resistance from a motor to work. Your TV won't provide that.

I plan to hook mine into the switched output from my receiver, since my receiver is on anytime the TV is on.

What if my TV will be against a wall painted with an "accent" color (which can be described as caramel or perhaps tawny). Do I need some sort of tunable-color light to offset this such that the COMBINATION of the wall and the bias lighting results in a color temp of 6500K?
Good luck! This should work in theory but in practice you could encounter real-world difficulty. Theatrical gel filters may do it, but I have found their graduations between color steps to be too course to do precise color correction. It may also require so many saturated filters to get he color correction done that you end up blocking way too much illumination. You could try an RGB LED array with a DMX controller that has fine or continuously variable fades (VERY EXPENSIVE!). You will also need a color analyzer or optical comparator to match 6500K.

The simple solution, of course, is to paint the wall behind the TV a neutral color (gray to white). Neutral goes with any decor. Then you even have the right backdrop when the bias lighting is not needed.

has anyone used something like this to turn their bias lights on and off
automatically as the TV is turned on and off?

woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5855

I am just concerned my TV (sony 52" lcd XBR4) would not draw enough of a load for it to sense it. Any thoughts?
You are correct in your assumption, not enough current draw. Send me a PM and I'll provide a link to meet your need.

I stuck a little non-fluorescent, low-intensity tube light behind my plasma, before even knowing this thread existed. I have no idea what temp I was looking for, but I like the effect, and I can affirm that plugging it into the receiver switched outlet works a treat. It comes on when I turn the receiver on, and goes off when i turn the receiver off. I think it cost $12.99.

Good luck! This should work in theory but in practice you could encounter real-world difficulty. Theatrical gel filters may do it, but I have found their graduations between color steps to be too course to do precise color correction. It may also require so many saturated filters to get he color correction done that you end up blocking way too much illumination. You could try an RGB LED array with a DMX controller that has fine or continuously variable fades (VERY EXPENSIVE!). You will also need a color analyzer or optical comparator to match 6500K.

The simple solution, of course, is to paint the wall behind the TV a neutral color (gray to white). Neutral goes with any decor. Then you even have the right backdrop when the bias lighting is not needed.

Thanks a lot for the thoughts, George. Repainting is not an option--this wall makes our apartment look fantastic. And this wall also is the best place for the TV. :( I might have to forgo a bias light or maybe experiment with some cheap bluish tubes to see if the combo works. Hopefully I will get to try your product when we buy a house. :)

George, I'm currently using your products on my two plasmas. In my HT, I have curtains hanging above, below, and to the sides of the plasma. I have your products on the top and the bottom, but they seem to shine too much light on the floor and ceiling rathen than the back wall. Any suggestions? (I know it's hard from my description, perhaps a photo?).

BTW, I use my receiver or my power filter (panamax) to turn on the lights when the TV is selected as an output.

agogley,

You better try some pics. You're right, it's hard to imagine what you're describing.

Ok, I took a couple pics so you can see the setup. I couldn't get very good shots with the TV on and the lights off.

I use the backlights on top and bottom, but I have them pretty far back. Otherwise, they seem to give off too much light thereby illuminating the white ceiling and the center channel speaker.

Thanks for the pics. Your problem is pretty fundamental- light goes where it will, your drapes are nearly black, and your floor and ceiling are nearly white!

You mention that the lights are "pretty far back." Bias lighting works best if mounted to the back of the TV. This gives the light more distance to travel and spread out evenly before it reaches the wall behind. Short of painting the ceiling darker, replacing your carpet with a darker one, and swapping your drapes for a lighter shade of gray, it may help to relocate your lights and adjust the rotating mechanical baffle tubes to block the light from shining up and down so much. It may require rigging up some kind of supplemental shroud to block the light more above and below where they are mounted. That's the best guidance I can think to offer.

Thanks for the pics. Your problem is pretty fundamental- light goes where it will, your drapes are nearly black, and your floor and ceiling are nearly white!

You mention that the lights are "pretty far back." Bias lighting works best if mounted to the back of the TV. This gives the light more distance to travel and spread out evenly before it reaches the wall behind. Short of painting the ceiling darker, replacing your carpet with a darker one, and swapping your drapes for a lighter shade of gray, it may help to relocate your lights and adjust the rotating mechanical baffle tubes to block the light from shining up and down so much. It may require rigging up some kind of supplemental shroud to block the light more above and below where they are mounted. That's the best guidance I can think to offer.

Thanks, George. One of the problems I have is that the TV is so big, I need another male to help... I didn't think of making another shroud though. That's an interesting idea I'll have to think carefully about.

I'm about to finish out my basement and mount my 58PZ750U on the wall instead of using the stand. I'm trying to determine the optimal mounting for my situation since I can change things prior to framing and drywall going up.

The wall I'll be mounting on has an alcove that will just be wide enough after framing and drywall for the plasma with plenty of room top & bottom. I currently make use of bias lighting and realized that if I do choose to place it within the alcove that there will be virtually no light on the sides of the display. Just wondering how much of a problem that will present. My other choice is to frame the area flush with the wall on each side of the alcove space.

Suggestions of pictures of similar situations greatly appreciated.

Well, liking what I saw here in this thread, I decided to add some bias lighting to my rig. It's a couple of 12" tubes wired through a remote AC outlet, so I can turn them on without having to get up. :o

I like the end result with the exception of two issues:

1) My TV is in the corner of a room so much more of the bias light enters the room than I'd prefer, as opposed to just hitting the wall.

2) Though the lights themselves are a nice, crisp white, my walls are painted a creamy yellowish color giving the light more of a warm yellow hue than I'd prefer.

The pictures look MUCH more yellow than real life, chock that up to my point-and-shoot. Oh, and it's my girlfriend watching Gray's Anatomy in the picture, not me. :pWhat I did to reduce the light output in a similar situation was to place a strip of black electricians tape the full length of the housing. The reduces the total output and can be adjusted to create a balanced effect. By moving the tape it's also possible to change how much and where the light hits the wall. It worked well for me and can be easily removed if need be.

if I do choose to place it within the alcove that there will be virtually no light on the sides of the display. Just wondering how much of a problem that will present. My other choice is to frame the area flush with the wall on each side of the alcove space.

The down side to this application is that improved black level perception will favor the top and bottom areas of the image. All other benefits will still be realized. It's best to surround the TV with illumination as much as possible. I'm not clear on your alternate suggestion as you describe it.

The down side to this application is that improved black level perception will favor the top and bottom areas of the image. All other benefits will still be realized. It's best to surround the TV with illumination as much as possible. I'm not clear on your alternate suggestion as you describe it.Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was thinking.

The other choice is to basically frame in the alcove area thereby making it a single flat wall. I'd still leave a space underneath to do a built-in section for either my equipment or media storage. This way I could illuminate the entire wall behind the plasma as well as make the space available at a later date for a screen should I decide to go to a projection system.

guys advice?

i have a 40" mounted lcd tv, about 6" away from the wall.
the room has no windows or other light sources.

would one ideal lume standard be enough for this set up
or should i get another one?

i already have one installed, but it kinda looks dim.
(already took out the black film that came with the ldeal lume.)
i dont know how to tell if its 10% of the brightest white.

any input would be greatly appreciated. ^^

i could also post pics if needed

well upon contemplating about it for a few hours(i couldnt sleep >.<)
i decided to order another ideal lume standard.

my bias lighting was nowhere near as bright as the dual light in the install image gallery in cinema quest.

Okay my turn, Great site, first post.

I had read about bias lighting for my computers 23" flat panel and decided to investigate it's use for my TV. This was a long read, but I read it all.

Panasonic TH-58PZ700U
Harmon Kardon AVR-520
Harmon Kardon DVD-31
Toshiba D-R400
Motorola DT-6412
Klipsch Reference 35 floorstanders, RC-35, RS-35's and sub.

Here are the particulars:


*DVD and DVD-R settings are set to neutral color/bright/black positions. The TV has been tuned using THX optimizer, using a panel of three people to dial in color and brightness/blackness levels (everyones perception is different). no idea what the Pannys white color level is in kelvins.

*The unit is wall mounted on an Atdec tilt mount. The base of the unit actually touches the wall when tilted to preferred viewing angle, and this is not the full range of tilt by any means. I have thought about shimming the unit out with 2x4 studding to get the unit off the wall, and allow better access for the back panel and bottom bias lighting.

*The wall is the color of maple candy - a neutral earth tone.

* The ceiling is white (drop ceiling w/ 35% sound absorption rating)

*The AVR is remotely located. Cabling is in the wall, where it runs up into the ceiling and over the room down the left wall to the AVR. Two inputs: RGB cabling over mini-coax, and HDMI. Using the AVR for power switching bias lighting is not an option.

*Power for the TV also enters the wall goes up and into a power outlet in the ceiling, rather than spend $20-30 for a Jbox surge suppressor I have a APC surge strip up in the ceiling outlet. The TV is plugged into this. Any remote activation of the light would need to penetrate the drop ceiling.

* I am using a Harmony 880 (newer version w/ magnet). TV is powered on when selecting any number of activities. Do not want another controller, but want to control the lights.

here's what I am looking to for:

--Do not want another controller, but want to control the lights.

--do I need to shim the TV out?

--center channel is mounted on shelf brackets below the TV, should it be above? and if so, how high?

--what is the brightness level of a properly set panasonic 58pz700U?

--How many lights would I need for this monster TV and color setup?

Thanks!!

guys advice?

i have a 40" mounted lcd tv, about 6" away from the wall.
the room has no windows or other light sources.

would one ideal lume standard be enough for this set up
or should i get another one?

i already have one installed, but it kinda looks dim.
(already took out the black film that came with the ldeal lume.)
i dont know how to tell if its 10% of the brightest white.

any input would be greatly appreciated. ^^

i could also post pics if needed

I think the CimemaQuest website indicates two Ideal-Lume lights are the recommended installation for wall-mounted TVs.

The Digital Video Essentials "setup DVD" includes test patterns to help adjust the brightness of the bias lighting to the recommended level. (Available through Netflix or the usual vendors ...)

Okay my turn, Great site, first post.

I had read about bias lighting for my computers 23" flat panel and decided to investigate it's use for my TV. This was a long read, but I read it all.

Panasonic TH-58PZ700U
Harmon Kardon AVR-520
Harmon Kardon DVD-31
Toshiba D-R400
Motorola DT-6412
Klipsch Reference 35 floorstanders, RC-35, RS-35's and sub.


here's what I am looking to for:

--Do not want another controller, but want to control the lights.

--do I need to shim the TV out?

--center channel is mounted on shelf brackets below the TV, should it be above? and if so, how high?

--what is the brightness level of a properly set panasonic 58pz700U?

--How many lights would I need for this monster TV and color setup?

Thanks!!
I'll take a stab at a few of your questions ...

First - check out the owners' thread for your TV model. There should be lots of posts with recommended settings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=843093

Your front center speaker should be at about the same height as the midrange/tweeters on your front left/right speakers - to avoid an audible "jump" when sounds pan across the front speakers. You also want the center to be close to your TV - so voices sound like they're coming from the screen. Your setup sounds (no pun intended;)) about right ....

Other more knowledgeable folks can help with your other questions ...

This was a long read
Part of the reason this thread is so long has to do with tangents that focus on topics other than bias lighting.
Do not want another controller, but want to control the lights
We suggest several methods on our web site.
do I need to shim the TV out?
Make your own decision based upon what you want to accomplish. It's your installation and no one else here is going to have to live with it.
How many lights would I need for this monster TV and color setup?
You should consider 3 or 4 lights. One may not be appropriate at the bottom, due to the tilt and the center speaker. It might help you to read through this article: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm . This forum thread includes a lot of information that will not apply to your circumstances. The article linked is much shorter and more concisely outlines the essential principles when considering viewing environment issues. Once you have a good grasp of the fundamental principles involved, it will be much easier for you to logically deduce how to apply them to your unique system.

Frankly, I don't recommend wall mounting televisions if you are serious about home theater. It's my observation that this fad was perpetrated upon our culture by interior designers who consider a TV to be just another decorator item.

Wall mounting usually places the panel too high on the wall for extended viewing comfort (not to mention the lousy off-angle viewing quality of many LCDs) and requires all kinds of additional installation complications, extra hardware, poor speaker placements, etc. Somehow it became "cool" to have a flat TV on the wall. I'll trade "cool" for true image fidelity and viewing comfort any day. Wall mounting may be fine for occasional, casual, non-critical viewing in multi-purpose rooms, or to avoid marital cataclysms. It all depends upon your individual priorities. If real viewing quality is a dominant priority in designing your system, think twice before considering a wall mounted panel.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I'll take a stab at a few of your questions ...

First - check out the owners' thread for your TV model. There should be lots of posts with recommended settings:




I have seen the thread, but at 101+ pages, it's too much conversation to sort through for real information. I ran a search by model no but did not come up with much.

Thank you

Ok, so I read the first few pages of the thread, and the last few, to get a sense of what's going on here. Understand some differences between the rope light approach and the official lume approach, etc.

Here's my set up and question.

In one room, I have a rear projection in a media niche next to a fireplace. Overhead, I have two centered wavy halogen lights that illuminate the pictures above the fireplace and the fireplace itself on the left side, and the shelves above/behind the tv on the right side. I also have lamps around the room. I love indirect lighting, hate direct lighting. Room has a nice balance to it, and the halogens are on dimmers, so if all other lights off, I can still leave them on to offer some backlighting, had no idea there was any science to this.

So, I then bought a flat panel plasma (currently a Samsung 50"), mounted about 1.5" off the wall on a fixed mount, Peerless to be exact, to go in the other room, over a pool table. Knowing I was going to have a tv on that wall, I opted for high mounted track lighting halogens to light up the pool table for playing pool, as opposed to a low hanging light that would interfere with watching the tv. I also have recessed eyeball lights around the pool table on dimmers to give varying degrees of soft room lighting.

After hooking up the plasma, w/ all varying degrees of room lighting from none to a lot, I noticed that the wall space was kind of flat, I guess painting it would help, which is in the works also. But I think I'm missing the effect I have going in the other room, where I have the lights on the wall around and behind the tv. So, before I ever knew about biased lighting, I was trying to figure out what I could do, and considered putting lights behind the TV somehow, but here's my biggest draw back.

The wall the tv is on, is a wall you pass by as you go into the back of the house. While it seems any of these backlight, or true bias light, options seem to look great head on, as you face the tv, I'm concerned that on, or off, they may look tacky as you pass by the tv going into the other room. This is why I searched for the lowest profile mount I thought would work, so that it wouldn't be an eyesore as you pass by it.

So, do any of you have this problem w/ a resolution? Where you have the sides of your tv exposed and managed to pull off a lighting effect that doesn't look tacky, or even distracting, on/or off from the side? Even if the install looks nice, as some of the pics here seem to look, I'm concerned that as you walk by, especially if it's on, it would be strange if not annoying to see the light itself as you pass by.

Make sense?

Here is the family room I'm talking about, I've since added big floor speakers behind the RP TV, so it fills up the space more, but you can see the lighting at least...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/karz10/FamRoom.jpg


Here is the pool table before plasma, I included it so you can see the track lights, since I realized my post install pics don't show them:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/karz10/BeforePlasma.jpg


Here are the images as I was wrapping up the plasma install, w/ the sony golf ball speakers, pardon the mess. So the left side is the side you walk by and is the cleanest. The right side w/ the power filter/surge suppressor is harder to see, but if you're playing pool you will walk past it in the corner. Again, I haven't finished this yet, and will be painting a neutral taupe color on the wall:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/karz10/01_NewInstallFront.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/karz10/02_NewInstallAngle.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/karz10/03_NewInstallLeftSide_Walki.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/karz10/04_NewInstallRightSide_Corn.jpg


I hope this helps explain my concern over the appearance of any lighting solution from the sides of the tv. Thanks in advance for any feedback...

Karz

Karz,

Do you really intend to perform critical, extended, viewing of the TV over the pool table in a dark room? If not, you don't need bias lighting.

Hi George,

Well, I don't know how to answer that for sure. I'm certainly not on the scale of some of these folks who tweak their settings using expensive equipment or have a dedicated home theater room that costs more than a luxury SUV. However, keeping in mind my known, and unknown, compromises to get the most bang for my buck, I am failry detail oriented, and at least like to know the right way to do things, and decide what's worth the expense/trouble for my intended purposes.

For example, the lighting I've chosen for the pool table isn't technically correct, don't know the term for a billard'o'file so to speak, but they would tell you not to use any 'spots' or halogens, and to have the lighting closer to the table. However, for my needs, in order to not obstruct the tv, I've compromised and w/ the fill in from the eyeball lights, and the halogens on the table surface as evenly spaced as possible, it's much better than most billiard rooms I've seen for others in my income bracket so to speak.

As for the TV, there will be times where I'll be in there to avoid other distractions in other rooms, to watch a game, tv, or movie, I'm sure, and I'm probably the most 'critical' viewer in the house, I guess.

As for the technical benefits of true bias lighting, which my limited understanding of them include deeper blacks and somehow more accurate color, if done correctly, I guess that would be a plus, but I'm not striving for perfection here, if we're talking about a scale based on perfection.

However, I did think some sort of bias lighting, or even basic back lighting, should theoretically provide a more pleasant viewing experience, in that I thought it would allow for deeper contrast settings in dimmer light (ETA: What I was trying to edit this to say before I lost my connection, was allow for deeper contrast while reducing eye strain, as I heard this was a benefit, and subconciously thought this to be the case, based on my family room experience), compared to not having any light back there. If this is true, then yes, I would like to accomplish this.

Additionally, I like the look of the light in the family room, and I thought some sort of backlight would give me a dimensional effect and make that wall less bland, in the evening at least.

My only concern is seeing the lights themselves from the side. If from a 90 degree angle to the side of the set, you're not staring directly at the light, but the light is shining back against the wall from behind the bezel, where you only see the light once you pass the 90 degree point, then that's what I'm trying to accomplish, so you don't look directly into the light from a casual glance from the side or at an angle.

Does that make sense?

Karz

No matter what product you get to provide bias lighting for a wall-mounted flat TV, you will see the light directly when walking along the wall as you describe. The solution would be to rig a baffle frame around the TV that doesn't extend all the way to the wall surface. Something thin and rigid, like sheet metal or plastic, that could be adhered to the outer frame edge of the TV and run back toward the wall. You will need to just block the lamps from view but leave space for the illumination to leak out onto the surrounding wall. This would be easier to accomplish if the TV is shimmed out a little, should your mount be so low-profile as to restrict working space.

No matter what product you get to provide bias lighting for a wall-mounted flat TV, you will see the light directly when walking along the wall as you describe. The solution would be to rig a baffle frame around the TV that doesn't extend all the way to the wall surface. Something thin and rigid, like sheet metal or plastic, that could be adhered to the outer frame edge of the TV and run back toward the wall. You will need to just block the lamps from view but leave space for the illumination to leak out onto the surrounding wall. This would be easier to accomplish if the TV is shimmed out a little, should your mount be so low-profile as to restrict working space.

Well this idea had occurred to me. I guess I was pointing out my situation to see if anyone had already been through this w/ a wall that is visible from the side like mine, and see how they dealt w/ it. Either with a product already adressing this, or fabricating something as you suggested.

Thanks,

karz

George,

I have decided that I am definately going with your product. Looking for a solution to activation:

Can your Smart Strip Current Sensing Switched Outlet Surge Device be combined with a photo cell so that it activates when the lights are off, so as to not be on all the time?

Example: www.amazon.com/Maxxima-MEW-1LS-Light-Outlet-Sensor/dp/B000RFPCJM

It would not provide remote capability, but would ensure the bias lighting turned on with the TV, but only when dark/dusk, preserving bulblife.

Thank you

I'm not clear on how you would prevent the light from the TV screen, or the bias light, from turning the device off again. It would have to be placed where some other light source would trigger it. Then such location would also have to be within reach of the Smart Strip device.

I'm assuming you would still plug the TV, or another remotely controlled electronic component, into the Smart Strip. Then you would plug the photocell outlet into one of the switched outlets. Finally, you would plug the bias light into the photocell outlet.

Extension cords could go between all these devices to allow for more distant location of the photocell device, but the extra cords might get messy. I may decide to experiment with the device but I have my doubts about it's practicality. Let us know if you get it and are able to implement it successfully.

I'm assuming you would still plug the TV, or another remotely controlled electronic component, into the Smart Strip. Then you would plug the photocell outlet into one of the switched outlets. Finally, you would plug the bias light into the photocell outlet.


Yes I that is the method I was envisioning.

The actuaiting power strip would be mounted to the mount itself the photocell would be in a switched port, with the photo eye facing the ceiling. When the TV is actuated, power would flow to the photocell plug.

When the lighting in the room is decreased, the photocell would close the circuit and allowing current to feed the lamps.

When I turn off the TV everything would turn off.

Sound logical?

Sound logical?
What about the light being produced by the bias light? Wouldn't that trigger the photocell to switch its outlet off, just like the room lighting reflected from the ceiling?

What about the light being produced by the bias light? Wouldn't that trigger the photocell to switch its outlet off, just like the room lighting reflected from the ceiling?

you got me...so much for logic. back to the drawing board

George, I assume with a Pioneer 5080 that the Standard light is the one I should get.

Matt

I assume with a Pioneer 5080 that the Standard light is the one I should get.
If it's on a stand rather than wall-mounted.

If it's on a stand rather than wall-mounted.

Thanks.

In AuburnT5 post (#927) he has his unit mounted in an entertainment hutch. Do you think it would improve his lighting if he mounted a Standard Lume unit along the top edge of the unit behind the unit to throw some light onto the back wall?

In AuburnT5 post (#927) he has his unit mounted in an entertainment hutch. Do you think it would improve his lighting if he mounted a Standard Lume unit along the top edge of the unit behind the unit to throw some light onto the back wall?
Didn't you read my suggestion in the following post (#928)?

This won't work for everyone's cabinet. It depends upon many variables, such as: wall color, size of the cabinet/viewing distance/how much of the viewer's field of view the cabinet occupies, amount of space between the top of the cabinet and the ceiling, etc. I can't stress this enough- study the fundamental principles of the technique of bias lighting and the vast majority of installation variables can be solved by simple deductive reasoning.

The fundamental principles are mostly common sense and observation, with a little extra imaging science thrown in. Understand the fundamentals in any field and solutions become simplified. Get clear on what are you trying to accomplish. The most simplified, concise, and centralized source for bias lighting and viewing environment principles is my web site. Next to that in detail would be this thread (ponderous, bloated, and tedious as it is).

It's much more worthwhile to understand the fundamental principles than to read about what worked in a myriad of specific individual's systems. What if your system variable doesn't match anyone else's?

Hi everyone,
I've stepped into this thread when unsastisfied about my backlighting solution.

My plasma 50" TV placed on the floor with it's floor mount is abot 4/5" away from the wall. A "snow" white wall.

I thought any lamp could fit my case and bought a OSRAM 100W incandescendt lamp and placed it on the wall; to enhance light diffusion I've placed on TV rear an aluminium foil.

After a while my perception was that something was wrong. Color temperature was to warm (I've measured some 3300K) making my D65 setting look "cold"! Also it looked like the contrast between TV and wall was too high.

So here I am, wondering if there are some alternatives to ideal-lamp, sold in europe.

It's much easier to win when you play according to the rules of the game. In the video world you must understand the science of imaging and adhere to display industry standards and recommended practices to get the intended results. Emulating professional video post production techniques will allow you to experience professional results. Relying on fad, impulse, intuition, market trends, speculation, here-say, individual preference, current fashion, pictures in consumer magazines, manufacturer hype, past experience, etc., instead of proven professional practice, will not suffice.

It is not wise to ignore history, resist change for what is better, waste time, money, and energy re-inventing the wheel, etc. Why not enjoy the benefits of doing it right from the start? The Imaging Science Foundation, Joe Kane Products, and many others, have been teaching and promoting this stuff to consumers for over a decade. People who listen realize the benefits. I don't know of any pre-assembled product available anywhere else in the world that offers a satisfactory solution to correct video bias lighting. Philips Ambilight has one mode that tries to do it right, but isn't very close to D65. There are some LED products that also aren't very close to D65, even though they say they are. In Italy, you may have to build your own, or just order from me.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

In Italy, you may have to build your own, or just order from me.

Any distributor/shopper in Europe?

No.

George,

I just bought one of your standard lights last night. Have a question for ya.

Can i use the Avia II dvd to check my white level and set the light?

Yes, like every respectable calibration DVD, it has a bias light level test pattern for adjusting the light. It's in the "Miscellaneous" pattern section of the program. Set up your picture settings for dark room viewing, then display the test pattern on the screen. Adjust the light level for a level of brightness on the wall to approximate the level of light in the test pattern, between the 5% and 10% halves of the pattern. SMPTE recommends 10% but less than that may appeal to some viewers.

Greetings

this thread is for Video Bias Lighting (SMPTE Recommended Practice) only

Please limit talk to CIE D65/6500K Ambient Lighting For Video Displays only

thread title edited/moved to Display Calibration Forum

Thanks

Quick question that I hopefully didn't miss somewhere else.
Is the Ideal-Lume Panelight simply two Ideal-Lume Standards sold as a pair?
Thanks!

Yes, but also includes 2 x 1 meter linking cables.

After reading through this thrread, I decided to try back lighting . I purchased a low wattage 6500K CFL from Walmart and inserted it into a desk lamp I had lying around. To control the amount of light I covered the front with a circular aluminum pie tray and cut a slot . The opening of the slot was adjusted to produce the amount of light per Avia test disc somewhere between 5 % and 10% . It seems to work quite well .

Originally I had the lamp powered from the receiver but decided later that I did not want the lamp to turn on during the day . I Then connected the lamp to a X10 lamp module so I can switch it on as needed. Photo of Plasma panel is slightly blurr due to hand shake !

George, do your lamps keep the same 6500k color temp when adjusting power?

I've read your lamps are power/adjustable, but as on ordinary lamps, while you adjust power you change color temp....

sportflyer,

Does Pixar know you have abducted and are mistreating their mascot?

blutarsky,

Our products cannot be dimmed electronically or electrically. Where did you read such information? Our products are dimmed using a mechanical method. We simply block the light with a rotating baffle tube.

We simply block the light with a rotating baffle tube.

Ah! Ok, got it!

Hey George , thats a good one LOL !

Any distributor/shopper in Europe?

I think you can find 6500K fluorescent lights from a Hydroponic plant supply shop because 6500K 2 ft long fluorescent lamps are used quite commonly as plant grow lights.

got some home depot rope lights installed earlier .. i'll post some pics later .. thanks for all the help guys!

I think you can find 6500K fluorescent lights from a Hydroponic plant supply shop because 6500K 2 ft long fluorescent lamps are used quite commonly as plant grow lights.

Usually grow lamps are anything but 6500K. For example with GE they are 3100K, 4000K, 5000K with a high CRI and 9325K & 10000K with a really low CRI.