Backlighting

I had written in another post that there is always bigger and better when it comes to Home Theater. I have been part of this forum for the past 1 ½ years and have always come across threads with questions concerning “bias lighting”. Not having it installed on my plasma I refrained from forming an opinion one way or the other. I can remain silent no longer.

Due to our family adding on a sunroom to the main living area we were forced to relocate the plasma/ht equipment to the other side of the room for a number of reasons which are beyond what this thread is about. Anyway, I come to think of myself as a pretty handy guy. I had installed the wall mount and ran the cables for the original placement so didn’t think it would be much different than before. So as I have to move the plasma anyway might as well try the bias lighting.

For a little history, we had purchased in April of 2003 a 42” 5uy…a consumer ED Panasonic plasma. The unit at that time cost ~$3,500 and was a very “tough nut to swallow”. I mean that was/is a lot of money for a 42” set. We had prior to that a 50” Mitsubishi Diamond Screen 4:3 RPTV. Didn’t even want to consider a 50” plasma due to the cost at that time of ~$7,000. Just didn’t seem economical given that HD from 8+ feet looked, to us, just as good as the HD units. I had performed a calibration with Avia and varied our viewing habits for the first few hundred hours and had re-calibrated with Avia. But it still wasn’t looking quite right. There was pixilation/blotchiness what have you that was causing me to seriously consider if we had done the “smart” thing.

So I came back to AVS and found the Steaming Rat (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=261309) and Polishing Turd (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2865896#post2865896) threads and have admitted before that I just don’t have the eye for getting excellent results. A professional calibrator with all the toys was needed to calibrate the unit. That, IMHO, was a very good $400 spent. The pixilation went away to a significant degree although at times I can still see it, it’s not nearly as annoying.

So now we have had this pro-calibrated unit for the past 15 months or so…enjoying the heck out of it whether we watch a DVD like “Master and Commander”, HD like MNF or NTSC via Dish like “Sponge Bob Square Pants” (BTW, FWIW “Rug Rats” cracks me up). But things change, circumstances present themselves and people get bored.

So now I am presented with a perfect opportunity to test the merit of “bias lighting”. I am not into spending a lot of money on something that I’m not really sure about so after taking the plasma off the wall and thinking that I would want a complete halo around the unit (floating in space as it were) I went to Home Depot and purchased for ~$18 a 12 foot piece of rope light, some small plastic white zip ties and some white sticky back cable hangers. Got home and proceeded to try a dry run and get the rope light around the unit. After closer inspection, not a good idea to completely surround the unit as that will in effect cause the connectors on the bottom to become blocked. Back to Home Depot trade in the 12’ and get a 6’ piece instead. Trudge back home and what do you know, the rope light covers ¾’s of the unit. Looking good. Put four of the sticky back tape wire doodads on top and three on each side. Mount the rope light and mounted the plasma on the wall.

Now for the “critical” viewing, or as critical as I can do anyway. Turned off the lights popped in “Pirates of the Caribbean”, no bias light. It looks very good…as it should and from what I am used to. I specifically chose this movie due to its aspect ratio of 2.35:1. Typically, when watching a movie in this ratio with the lights off there will be a slight difference in perceived black levels. That is the top and bottom bars that will be clearly seen will look a lighter shade of black than what the unit is displaying in the picture…if that makes any sense.

Then I turned on the rope light and must say it is a significant difference. The black bars look black. The blacks on the unit turned inky dark black. There is still very good contrast in the blacks when watching anything. For the amount of money spent, ~$10.00, I can not honestly think of another DIY tweak that can be done that will have a greater impact on your viewing environment.

Should have done it much sooner.

I welcome all comments/questions.

YMMV.

Just my .02

I'm going to home depot tomorrow first thing in the morning. :D

You attached the rope light to the display or around the mount? How do you switch on and off the rope light? Posting some pics would also be most useful and appreciated.

Posting pics is a whole lot more difficult than taking them.

Anyway, the rope light is attached to the plasma (see following pic...I hope) and I have it connected to one of my switched receptacles on the 7200. When it comes on the light rope comes on.

Excuse the pics...they are most crappy.

And with the bias lighting on.

Very excellent post. While it is true that the application of nearly any light source will help in this regard, it would certainly be best to attempt using a neutral color luminary for this purpose. If you like these benefits, I would consider at some point to try get a fixture designed for this purpose, with an actual calibrated bulb putting out the right spectrum of light. This would especially be important for those that have had a professional calibration done on their sets, but as mentioned, all will benefit.

And one of my honies

FWIW, the back lighting is not actually redish but more neutral, the wall is cream colored which gives a nice warm/non-glossy look.

The "bias on" post is closest to actual..although not nearly as "glossy".

One thing I have learned via this while mess is that:

A) My camera stinks
B) No need to worry about changing careers to be a photographer
C) I should have done this much, much earlier.

Eye strain/fatigue has been greatly reduced.

Thanks for the kind words Seth...and yes I do agree with you that bias lighting adds several dimensions to the viewing environment....but you already know what those additions are, don't you? ;)

The Philips 42" LCD (http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/catalog.jsp?fhquery=fh_secondid%3D42pf9996_37_us_consumer%26 fh_location%3D%2F%2Fconsumer%2Fen_US%2Fcategories%3Ccatalog_ us_consumer%2Fcategories%3Ctv_gr_us_consumer%2Fcategories%3C flat_tv_ca_us_consumer%26&productId=42PF9996_37_US_CONSUMER&activeCategory=TV_GR_US_CONSUMER&fredhopperpage=detail.jsp&language=en&country=US&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=DUP42KEP5N12NJ0RMRESHQVHKFSEKI5P) has an automatic, adaptive bias lighting that they call "Ambilight".

The nice feature of the Philips is that the TV changes the bias lighting, depending on what image is showing on the screen.

Originally posted by rmcgirr83
Bias Lighting...For a little history, we had purchased in April of 2004 a 42” 5uy…a consumer ED Panasonic plasma....

Added to my list of "Letters I never finished reading"....
AMc

Well, a. macree now you can take it off of your list. :)

Link is here (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=310467&highlight=isf).

Now if your dissin my display we can talk PM if you like. ;)

EDIT: Oooops, we actually purchased it in 2003.

wait, i'm confused, you taped the rope lights to the black plasma frame or on the back of the pdp? like the bare black metal parts?

while i'm happy that you're getting a great picture, arent you afraid of the extra heat generated right next to an already substantial heat source? did you or do you plan on doing anything about that?

Rich, you've convinced me, I'm on my way to Home Depot this weekend to give that lights you've hooked up a shot. :D

-JR

I am wonderng what the difference would like between ideal lume and the rope light.

Originally posted by agogley
I am wonderng what the difference would like between ideal lume and the rope light.

about $400

Originally posted by Ou8thisSN
wait, i'm confused, you taped the rope lights to the black plasma frame or on the back of the pdp? like the bare black metal parts?

while i'm happy that you're getting a great picture, arent you afraid of the extra heat generated right next to an already substantial heat source? did you or do you plan on doing anything about that?

The rope lights are actually suspended a tad (they don't actually sit on the PDP) by the sticky back cable hangers that are attached on the PDP itself. On the top it is suspend over the vent holes, then just run around the outside edges ultil it is even on both sides. I did feel around when they were on for ~1 hour and it wasn't burning. More warm...like a hot tub. :)

The heat from the back of the unit was never a problem prior to the rope lights.

Originally posted by JuiceRocket
Rich, you've convinced me, I'm on my way to Home Depot this weekend to give that lights you've hooked up a shot.

Juice,

I find it to be a very beneficial thing...and it looks pretty cool also. :D

Let us know how you like it.

Originally posted by agogley
I am wonderng what the difference would like between ideal lume and the rope light.

Although the ideal lume is more $$$ for any of their models, I am sure that there are benefits to be had at that end as well. For instance the ability to change the color filter(s) for one.

I kind of look at it this way. This is not a dedicated Home Theater. It sits in a ~60'x16' room that is only divided by furniture. I get ambiant light already during the day as the sunroom floods the area. At night the only light on is the fish tank which is easy enough to turn off. I have/will have noise out the kazoo from the pumps/filters running on the fish tank and shortly from the hot tub we will be installing that is ~16' from the HT. It's more of a family room area than a dedicated HT.

Does the rope light produce 6500K light? Not likely, then again not sure either. It does a fair job for what I am looking for it to do. Home theater has it's pro and consumer stuff (very similar to the difference between autmotive and marine stuff) yet the consumer stuff generally costs significantly more (again similar to auto vs marine).

We can get into semantics as far as the "benefits" of one over the other, however, I am still strongly biased for an inexpensive solution to a problem. Generally, just throwing money at a situation is not necessarily going to correct that situation.

I'm happy with the results and as Seth said [paraphrase] "Any bias lighting is better than none".

YMMV.

PS the ideal lume's vary from ~$50 upto ~$400 with the plasma one running ~$100 before shipping.

deleted bashing

i got an 18" fluorescent fixture at the hardware store for $7. it originally had a uv (blacklite) bulb which i replaced with a 6500k full spectrum bulb for $9 (at the same store).
the fixture slides right between the articulating mount and the plasma.
it puts out very little heat. it's turned on when i power up the pre/pro.
as a finishing touch, i painted the wall flat black. the plasma seems to float in space and the colors are so vibrant, they jump off the screen.
it's the best $20 tweek you can make for a plasma. my $.02.
best,
eric

Bias Lighting is a must

Currently I use the IdeaLume plasma one: it is under $100.00

Prior to that I used the Home Depot rope light: that worked well because I was able to control it with a dimmer: downside is it may not be 6500k

Bottom line is to use some kind of proper backlight: makes a big difference

Rich, I kinda get what you're saying about how to stick it on there, any way you could take better pics of the top and bottom.... for some of the slow members on this forum :)

Oy vey. More picture taking? You sure?

I'll try...but it may not be tonight (volleyball which of course involves drinking beer afterwards with the boys and regaining the pounds we had just sweated, or is it swat, off).

FWIW, the bottom of the unit has no bias lighting. All the lighting is on the sides and top.

Scratch this response, I just read thru the thread again, and noticed that Mark Rubin already suggested the dimmer - looks like my speed reading misses some thoughts.

The tropic babe pic above is closest to what the bias light looks like with a show on.

Did I mention I stink at taking pictures?

Hi Rich-

I bought a 12 foot rope lite a year a half ago. I had SO MUCH ambient light in the room at the time that it made no difference at all so I took it off.

Recently my lighting conditions have changed dramatically and my comfort level was being tested. Your thread reminded me of the ropelite so I put it back on. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! My wife and I are most pleased with the results.

To help put numbers into perspective for those who have not thought about it much, 6500k is a color temperature that is very unpleasant to look at. A typical incandescant light bulb, say 60 watter, has a color temp around 2700k. A 40 watt cool white flourescent tube( shop light) has a color temp of 4100k. 6500k is the temp of a daylight tube. This may be the "proper" backlight temp, but I gaurantee it won't give you the warm fuzzies of the ropelite.

Thanks again for the wake-up call.

Lew

FWIW, 6500k is also the color of many fish tank bulbs (for growing plants, coral, etc.). Anyone ever been to a pet store you can actually see how bright 6500k really is by simply looking at a fish tank.

I am not trying to recreate day time...just add some back lighting. :)

lewlew,

Most excellent...and women wonder why we hang on to stuff. Glad it closed a synapse for you. :D

I had a 180 gallon tank several years back. It was equipped with four 110 watt "daylight" bulbs. It was full live corals and I really miss it. The cost of maintenance just got too high for a college kit at the time.

Anyway, I've been itching to get one of those Ideal Lume bias light but for $10 bucks I must give this a shot. Thanks for the reminder.

I also have experimented with backlighting on my plasma as well as my rptv. The results have been very satisfactory. I am using a 2 socket black desk lamp about 15" tall. I use 2- 60 watt Phillips daylight bulbs. I have the lamp connected to a dimmer. I feel that there is less eyestrain and better contrast on both tv's but especially the plasma. Total cost for one setup was about $22. A very nice "tweak."

Greg

Originally posted by Ou8thisSN
Rich, I kinda get what you're saying about how to stick it on there, any way you could take better pics of the top and bottom.... for some of the slow members on this forum :)

Okay, I took (a better I hope) picture of the left side of the unit...hope it is clear now, but if not let me know and I'll see if I can attack it another way.

Still looks like an xray of a giraffe:)

You did much better photographing the blond.:cool:

Damn...double damn...triple damn.

That's it, I'm only taking pics of babes. :D

Rich-

Might I suggest turning the ropelite off and using the flash?

No, definitely keep the flash on and maybe ask them to take their tops of...

oh, wait, you mean the plasma...

In that case, what lewlew said :)

Damn...double damn...triple damn.

Now the friggin camera won't work. Replaced the batteries...nada.

Guess we'll just have to deal with the "giraffe x-ray".

The things I do for you guys. :)

Sorry for the stupid questions, but what exactly do you mean by "white sticky back cable hangers"? Are these the foam type pieces that stick on both sides? Something like what comes with plastic hooks to attach to a hard surface?

Also, you said the 6' rope light works well with your 42" plasma and that the 12' was too long. With a 50" plasma, I assume the 12' would still be too long but I'm wondering if 6' could be be too short. Has anyone else tried the 6' length on a 50" plasma and been satisfied with the results?

The cable hangers can be found at Home Depot with the other electrical stuff (zip ties, etc.). Here is a link (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=422-2627&PMPXNO=7908397&PARTPG=INLMK3) They are the second one down on the page (4 way).

The UPC at home depot is 2849410106. Can't give you much more than that...and yes I think the 6' length will be too short.

Thanks, Rich. I see there is some rope lighting that can be cut at 18" intervals so it looks like it can be customized to whatever length is needed.

My 12 foot light was only about 6 inches too long. The beginning and the end meet at the bottom center of my 503 so I just ran the last couple inches straight up the back at that junction.

My Home Depot no longer carries rope light by the foot, you can get precut sizes already wired form 6'-40'+. Lighting stores (also internet) carry it by the foot for a little more and all the different connectors. Home Depot does carry a dimmer you splice right onto the wire which works well. My 503CMX only required about 7' since it is mounted with a simple wall mount much smaller than the plasma itself. The light fits nicely around the mount. I found the plastic track works better than those little clips since they do not have much surface area for the tape to stick. The track is clear U shaped plastic and comes in different lengths (5 or 6 feet being the longest I've seen) and the rope light just snaps in.

My panel is in a carpeted drop down area we call the pit (about one foot difference in height from the rest of the house). I have also install a rope light on a dimmer in the toe kick area of the drop off so I don't trip when I'm going for a beer. The reason I mention this is you might want to consider putting a rope light under your couch or chairs on a dimmer and dimming it way down. It's nice to have a warm glow on the floor. You might like the effect.

I've also used the rope light along the stairs on motion detectors so when I get up in the middle of the night (remember those beers) I don't have to turn on any lights.

Originally posted by KOA
I have also install a rope light on a dimmer in the toe kick area of the drop off so I don't trip when I'm going for a beer.

Another excellent reason to install rope light!! :D

Rich,

As far as the tope light is concerned, do you advise it being directly on the plasma or do you think it would have worked having placed it around the wall mount? I ask because there is about 2-3" between the display and the wall and I was considering attaching it to the mount rather than the display.

Mark:

Being that you have used both the rope light and the ideal lume plasma, which do you prefer? I wish there was some way to view the ideal lume before dropping $100. In theory, I like the ideal lume better than the rope light...but then again neither my wife or I really like rope lights.

I've installed the rope light using Rich's method and love it! It definitely makes the blacks seem blacker.

I first attached it to the mount but I moved it toward the edge of the panel to give it a little bit more light. I connected a 2 ft. section to a 6 ft. section and it is just the right length for a 50" plasma.

Thanks for the idea Rich.

After reading about the “rope light”, I have installed it as follows:
****See photos of installation and photos of the bias light effect, in next posts.****
Equipment:
1. Plasma: Panasonic PHD6UY, 50”.

2. Multimedia stand: by Bello. This model is now discontinued.

Supplies:
3. Thomas & Betts 1” mounting base, black or white, packs of 8, $1.39 per pack; Thomas & Betts 4” black cable ties, $6.00 per pack of 100; Hampton Bay Super Light Rope light (363-150), 12’, 36 watts, rated average bulb(s) life: 10,000 hours, $ 7.29, other lengths available

4. On the top of the plasma install the cable ties in the ventilation holes (keep away from the fans). On the sides install the mounting base (self-adhesive), then put the cable tie through the two holes. I used 3 combos on each side. At the bottom use the combos and use one larger cable tie to hold both ends together. Connect power cord to an outlet or to a switched outlet of your equipment. You may want to add a dimmer or a dedicated remote controlled outlet/dimmer-with the small RF remote (Home Depot has these for $27.00 and they are made by Zenith).

5. Results are excellent and the picture looks much better and less eyestrain. The
12-foot length is a perfect fit for the 50’ plasma on a stand.

6. Some pictures are attached in subsequent posts.

Equipment setup.

Top of plasma.

Closeup, side.

Back of plasma.

Back of plasma-closeup.

RZ,

Did you go all the way around (i.e. the bottom as well) or just the top and sides?

I went all the way around. That's why the 12 foot length was a perfect fit.

WITHOUT lights.

WITH lights 1.

WITH lights 2.

Side/Back showing rope lights on.

Correct me if I'm wrong...this is not a wall mount?

How does it effect the perceived blackness...better, same, etc.?

Nice setup!! :)

No, it's not a wall mount. It's a high Bello multimedia center made out of black metal with glass shelves. I've had it about three years and the plasma fits on the main glass shelf like it was buit in. SEE "equipment setup 2" photo in this thread.

The blacks look better, although some people like to "lose" the palsma frame in a dark room. But that causes eye strain. With this setup there is a nice "glow" in the backround, yet the colors and blacks seem to stand out more and have a truer reality.

RZ,

Just a couple more questions if you don't mind.

1.) Where did you purchase your supplies and what different options did you notice?

2.) Did you use a dimmer or was the lighting perfect right out of the box?

Aaron

Supplies from Home Depot, but Lowes, etc. would have the same supplies. I did not need the dimmer.

I have to go to the Home Depot. Lowes had discontinued rope lighting.

Just curious, in light of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=453973

How are folks who have wall mounted their plasma running power for their rope light? I'm guessing the rope light has a large "wall wart" power adapter which would not be compatible with a recessed clock outlet for the plasma power?

Thanks,

Grom

The rope light I bought at Home Depot("Hampton Bay", manufac.) has a standard two prong plug with a small fuse inside the plug.

Ugh........... just wasted $15 buck on this horrible 'yellow' backlight rope. Couldn't stand the yellow cast.

IMHO, the 7UY looks FANTASTIC without any backlight. I may try a 'hot' full spectrum backlight.

YMMV

JohnG

shouldn't be wasted. If you got it from Home Depot, just return it. No question asked.

I think the color of the wall paint affect how it look as well. It looks great on mine. Of course, like you said, YMMV. ;)

I'll post some pics later. :)

I bit the bullet and paid the $55 to cinemaquest and got the full spectrum flourescent bulb and filters. It looks great and I dont have to worry about whether I have any intensity spikes with certain colors. It surrounds my plasma with a soft white-ish glow.

I power it off of my AVR's switched AC output so it turns on and off with the AVR. I used a simple velcro strip to attach it to the back of my Panny 42" 6UY plasma. Took me about 3 minutes to connect it all up. The hardest part was pulling out my AVR and plugging the AC cord into the back.

GREAT add on to my HT. :)

Bilt,

Do you have a link for the CinemaQuest? Also where exactly did you place it? Does the light go out the top, sides, and bottom?

I was going to buy a rope light, but think that I may prefer the full spectrum light.

Aaron

Try

cinemaquestinc

Dave

Originally posted by agogley
Bilt,

Do you have a link for the CinemaQuest? Also where exactly did you place it? Does the light go out the top, sides, and bottom?

I was going to buy a rope light, but think that I may prefer the full spectrum light.

Aaron

Here you go. I got the basic kit in about 5 working days, UPS ground.

www dot cinemaquestinc dot com/ideal_lume.htm

No Direct Linking To Internet Pricing...Please

My HT setup with the ambient room lights on. You can see the glow of the bias lighting faintly on the back wall.

My HT setup with the ambient room lights dimmed somewhat. The white-ish bias lighting is much more visible. It has the lighter of the two CinemaQuest filters on the flourescent tube.

The back of my Panny 42" 6UY monitor with the bias light on. It is stuck in place with a pair of 3" velcro strips at each end of the light fixture.

The back of my Panny plasma with the bias light fixture off.

Thanks for all the pics. Very helpful.

Originally posted by rmcgirr83
Okay, I took (a better I hope) picture of the left side of the unit...hope it is clear now, but if not let me know and I'll see if I can attack it another way.

much better, perhaps i'll try that this december. the only thing that concerns me is the heat issue, but as i've heard from ppl that these lights dont really get that hot... ?

Ou8thisSN,

They don't get "hot" at all...warm, yeah, but you can keep your fingers on them for hours and it will not get hot. It's actually cooler (temp wise) than the heat coming out of the vent holes on the plasma.

How's the stand holding up?

Why wait until December?

Scolumbo,

Glad it worked out for you!! :) It is nice to find something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to perform an upgrade. I'm a little tight with $$$ right now with the sunroom (almost there) and buying an AVR and pro power amps for the new Axioms...oh yeah and the SVS and an EQ didn't help any either. ;)

The only bad part now is that I'll have to wait longer before getting a 50". :(

I just installed my brand new 42PWD7UY and immediately added the rope light. Light went in without a hitch (unlike the wall mount where I stripped a lag screw), as someone suggested earlier I plugged it into a switched outlet on my receiver so it turns on when the receiver turns on. This will work for now, but I'm not quite sure what I'll do when I route an electrical outlet behind the plasma to avoid having hanging cords. Perhaps I'll need to install a switch of some kind inline.

Anyway, used the Avia disk to fine tune my receiver settings and tune up my Panny and things are looking great. Thanks again for the inexpensive suggestion. I'm not sure any upgrade I've ever done, or will ever do will cost as little.

Grom

came across this thread and immediately decided i was heading to home depot at lunch time.

picked up a 6footer, some black cable ties, some black self adhesvie cable tie mounts and an extension cord... gonna be my afternoon project when i get home today!

thanks for the idea rich, i was on the edge about whether or not to go lume or not, and, for a total of $15.83, i'm sure this will hold me over. i didn't go with a dimmer since i have my wall painted black, figged this will shed enough light to produce a nice effect.

hope to take some snaps when done... hope i have a switch outlet not in use...

:)

thanks guys!!

regular Lume or Lume pro for plasmas? the latter is $99.

Can you build your own with fluorescent fixture and appropriate bulb at home depot? If so, anyone know how much or what pieces?

mrpjc,

My pleasure.

Gadget,

You did read the whole post...right? I remember that someone had sone that exact same thing that you are looking to do.

Aw what the hell...Here it is (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4425223#post4425223)

WHERE IS JUICE!!!

He should have reported back by now.

LOL... juice wrote back to me, i asked him if he had gone thru with this project yet and he said he hadn't had time.

he said, this weekend!!

juice...... get on it!!

:)

Hadn't had time??

Chasing a ground loop was he?

Oh well, guess we'll have to wait and see.

so rich, you don't find the 'yellowish' glow distracting over the glow of the tv's picture??

to me, it seems like a warm glow if anything.

No I don't...then again I think that the wall behind the unit makes it more "yellowish" (it's painted a cream color).

I actually find that I am drawn in toward the picture on the unit more...eg the ESPNHD football game on last night. Just couldn't take my eyes off of it. In fact it got sooo bad at one point that while changing the fish tank water I had forgotten that I was changing the fish tank water. You have never seen a 42 year old guy move as fast as I did last night when the water started coming out of the fish tank (it was only about 2 gallons worth, thank goodness otherwise the misses would have been ripping).

I think people need to understand that rope light in and of it self is not very bright to begin with...not sure of the wattage but it can't be much.

I just find it to be an acceptable, inexpensive, solution to what are perceived to be problems with the black reproduction in plasma units. It helps.

Some will prefer the idealume.

There is no definite right or wrong...just variances.

The rope light is rated at 36 watts. Check out my photos to see the "warm yellow glow" that surrounds the back of the plasma. Very easy on the eyes and the blacks look better.

I bought this from Home Depot(find it in the outdoor lighting/security area): "Wireless Command" by Zenith/Desa--indoor plug-in lamp control with RF remote which can be used with TWO lamp control plugs or other Wireless Command accessories. The remote has an A and B side to control two accessories. Easy to set the codes with DIP switches. The remote has an on and off button and a dimmer button. Perfect solution. It costs more than the rope light combo! $27.00.

Their site:

http://www.desatech.com/heath/remotehome.html

I finally went out today and purchased the rope light and installed it. :)

The wall behind our unit is white (painted brick :( ), so the rope light creates a soft, yellowish glow that surrounds the sides and top of the unit. The difference is immediate, but it took some getting used to for me.

Halfway through the movie my wife and I were watching, I turned the lights off. The difference was pretty stunning. With the ropelight on, our unit seems to have more pop and depth to the image, I'm assuming due to it "reinforcing" the blacks. The only issue I had was it seemed (and my wife didn't have this issue) to make some parts of the movie seem...off. For example, if there was a bright scene with something dark in the center, the dark center area seemed washed out. Again, my wife didn't notice this, but it happened a few times and I couldn't seem to ignore it.

The ropelight is here to stay though, the effect is nice, and it's a great way to have some soft diffused light in the room. It also gives the plasma a weird "floating in space" look, because the light creates depth behind the unit.

One question, I noticed that the ropelight was pretty warm when I turned the tv off. Part of it, due to it being rolled in the package, is resting against the vented area in the back of the plasma. I noticed this after about 2 hours of straight tv watching. Is this ok, or something I should be wary about?

-JR

Originally posted by rmcgirr83
Ou8thisSN,

They don't get "hot" at all...warm, yeah, but you can keep your fingers on them for hours and it will not get hot. It's actually cooler (temp wise) than the heat coming out of the vent holes on the plasma.

How's the stand holding up?

Why wait until December?



The "home made duped on ebay" stand is okay. I cant really screw around with the PDP till around Christmas break. Some of us here dont have jobs and are obligated to continue their book learnin'

It's funny as we get back to subjects that were hashed a few years ago...

I remember seeing the first instance of backlighting for plasmas on this forum about 3 years ago. I installed my first light rope then.

Since then, I've replaced my plasma twice and my rope light once...

I'm using a dimmer version now, mostly because of heat issues. The plasma and rope light interact and this concerns me regarding the lifespan of the plasma.

I hooked the light rope so that it is powered by the receiver, so when the system shuts off, the rope light is turned off too.

The non-65K nature of the rope light is only now starting to concern me and the picture above using a small fluorescent might cause me to switch...

Originally posted by oferlaor
The plasma and rope light interact and this concerns me regarding the lifespan of the plasma.
How do they interact and why would it be a lifespan issue?

Again, the total watt output is only 36 watts. If you look at some of my pictures, you can see that there are hundreds(thousands?) of vent holes. Just don't put a cable tie near the two fans. Also, use a remote, as stated above, so that the rope light on/off is controlled by you only for nightime(dark room) viewing. I've seen no "interaction" between the rope light and the plasma, except for a more pleasing picture and less eye strain. I only use it at night and only if I don't have a regular lamp on(to read by).

My plasma gets delivered today. I'm going to head over to home depot to see if they sell a 6500K fluorescent bulb and housing. If not, I'm trying the rope lighting. My only concern is which would look better as my wall is dark brown velvet curtains, and the plasma is hanging on dark brown furniture.

What do you think? The 6500K light or the rope ligth?

I think adding a rope light (or any bias light) to the plasma would require us to recalibrate our units. I'm talking of course about AVIA or DVE, etc.

Remember, one of the tips on calibrating is having your eyes get used to the room lighting before calibrating. Well, we obviously calibrated our plasma's before and adding the bias light would affect how colors are being shown on the display.

Am I correct in assuming this?

I suppose...however, I wonder how much it would influence the calibration done by a pro as they use dedicated meters that cut out ambiant light.

Maybe SethS can respond. :)

I am sure though that with Avia or DVE it would be affected due to using your eye as opposed to dedicated computerized calibration equipment.

I've had mine professionaly calibrated and with the rope light the picture looks better. I wouldn't change any of the settings.

Seems like I'm the odd man out.

I've tried soft backlighting for my plasma several times and have always found it a distraction. I like the picture floating in darkness look, like the theater. Whereas I find backlighting the plasma highlights the frame around the image, creating another layer of visual distraction. It gets worse with letter boxed films. You have the picture image, the not-quite-black letterboxed bars, then the dark frame of the plasma, then another halo of light behind the plasma. Blech.

Ah well...

BTW, I've been experimenting with some masking I made for letterboxed movies. So far, very cool. Will report soon.

hi rich,
for me, the key was painting the wall flat black.
the 6500k bulb seems to diffuse into the wall, but somehow makes the detail and colors "pop" (on my 6uy) without turning up the brightness.
i realize that waf may not allow a flat black wall, but if you can do it, it really simulates a movie theater environment.
i always enjoy your posts.
best,
eric

I went to Home depot, and found that the Philips Daylight Deluxe light bulb is 6500K.
http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/us/consumer/products_homelight_DD.php

However, they only had the 48". I am trying to track down a 24" bulb. They also had a GE standard fluorescent housing that was about $12.

Here's a list of other bulbs.
http://www.cinematography.com/docs/flo_tubes.asp

Do you think having exactly 6500K makes a difference? Or is 5000K close enough?

If I put a dimmer on 6500K, when I dim it doesn't it drop the temp? or just the wattage?

Originally posted by gadgetfreaky

If I put a dimmer on 6500K, when I dim it doesn't it drop the temp? or just the wattage?

Can you use a dimmer on a fluorescent light? I thought that's what the filter tubes that go over them were used for.

A dimmer will reduce the "intensity" of the light...not the color temp.

The filter tubes actually change the color temp.

You cannot dim a flourescent light. I would hope he was referring to incandescent bulbs.

The filters used in the commercial kits are not exactly tubes. They are strips of smoke gray plastic sheets that fit inside the diffuser that snaps over the flourescent bulbs.

CinemaQuest has a dimmable ballast flourescent backlight coming out soon: it is listed on their site

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

Originally posted by billt1111
You cannot dim a flourescent light. I would hope he was referring to incandescent bulbs.


That's what I thought but there was only mention of fluorescents in the original message.


The filters used in the commercial kits are not exactly tubes. They are strips of smoke gray plastic sheets that fit inside the diffuser that snaps over the fluorescent bulbs.

Thanks for clearing up my misconception.

I di d the rope light install on my Pio 5040 over the weekend and really like the results. I was concerned that with a fluorescent tube, the backlighting wouldn't be even in my installation (panel is mounted over a fireplace and tilted slightly down) but the rope lights really do an excellent job with this.

I was thinking of putting an inline dimming switch on the end of the plug on the fluorescent. You know, the ones that you put with floor standing lights? I can't dim a fluorescent light? I guess I never tried... dang...

Originally posted by markrubin
CinemaQuest has a dimmable ballast flourescent backlight coming out soon: it is listed on their site

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

I guess I should amend my post. You cannot dim a NORMAL flourescent light by lowering the AC voltage input with a dimmer (variable resistor) from your local hardware store. In the cinemaquest future version they imply it will have a special ballast that will have to do this for you electronically.

Originally posted by JuiceRocket
The only issue I had was it seemed (and my wife didn't have this issue) to make some parts of the movie seem...off. For example, if there was a bright scene with something dark in the center, the dark center area seemed washed out.

Well, this just happened to me again, last night. The first movie I was referring to was "Man on Fire". I noticed it during times when Denzel would be against a bright background, like the brightly lit sky.

My buddy and I were watching an episode of "Band of Brothers" last night, "Crossroads" to be exact, and again, I noticed in a few scenes darker areas seemed to be, and this isn't even the right way to describe it, washed out.

As I think of it, it more seemed that the darker area had a "dodged" look to it, like when you dodge a B&W photo and it makes that area loose it's depth and contrast.

Again, this happened only when there were dark areas against a light back ground, and only when said area was towards the center of the screen. Almost like the backlight is...pushing the light away. I turned off the backlight and voila, the dark area seemed much more 3D and not washed out at all.

Is this just some form of optical illusion? I'd take a picture of it to show here, but as you all know my pictures skills are hideously sub-par. :D

-JR

Originally posted by JuiceRocket
As I think of it, it more seemed that the darker area had a "dodged" look to it, like when you dodge a B&W photo and it makes that area loose it's depth and contrast.

Again, this happened only when there were dark areas against a light back ground, and only when said area was towards the center of the screen. Almost like the backlight is...pushing the light away. I turned off the backlight and voila, the dark area seemed much more 3D and not washed out at all.

Is this just some form of optical illusion?

By toward the center area...is it defined. Meaning so many inches in from the side/from the top consistently?

I'll try and watch that flick tomorrow night to see if it happens on mine although I have the 5uy series and you have the 6. Not really sure that would matter as the electronics are virtually identical, IIRC.


I'd take a picture of it to show here, but as you all know my pictures skills are hideously sub-par. :D

Welcome to the club. :D

Rich

Hey there Rich,

No, it's not defined to a specific location of my unit, and it's not visible when "normal" lights are on, so I'm assuming it's not an electronics issue. I'm guessing it's some sort of optical trick occurring, but, I could easily be wrong.

I don't know the exact time code spot in BoB right now, but I can check later tonight after my wife heads to bed. ;) The episode is Carentan...oh, that's about all the info I have. I'll check later for you and post the chapter/time.

I don't own "Man on Fire" (netflix rental) so I can't give you an idea of when that occurred. :(

-JR

I went back to home depot today and went with the 12' rope light for the 50phd7uy. It was the perfect length. I bought one of the tracks that are made for the rope light. It has a self adhesive backing, that is strong enough to hold the back light but you can peel it off without leaving residue from the back of the plasma. It is about a 8' length. I cut 3 1/2" pieces from it and placed them around the plasma. About 5 pieces up top, 3 on the sides and just ran the rope ligth in the track pieces. Took about 5 minutes. On this hard plastic track, just start a small cut a small groove on it and break your piece off. Much easier than trying to cut through this hard plastic.

I set it on a timer I had, starts at 6pm, shuts off at 12am. every nigth. it's only 35 watts, so it's not going to waste too much energy. it's definitely less straining on the eyes and gives a nice ambiance to the room. The wife loved it as well...

Originally posted by gadgetfreaky
The wife loved it as well...

My wife loves the ropelight/backlight as well. I have a feeling this simply tweak has massive WAF. :D

-JR

Some people have suggeted the fluorescent light, ... do most people use plane white .. or blacklight?

The blacklight is supposed to work much better for contrasts .. that's what I heard ..

Originally posted by rts
Some people have suggeted the fluorescent light, ... do most people use plane white .. or blacklight?

The blacklight is supposed to work much better for contrasts .. that's what I heard ..

Interesting question. The cinemaquest web site goes to great lengths to describe their bulb as special at 6500K and the best 'Spectral Power Distribution' in the industry for even color intensities. They go so far as to recommend changing the bulb at the half life to insure SPD and Kelvin accuracy.

Their bulb is a soft white light on my setup. If anyone tries a blacklight I would be interested to know if there is any aesthetic or perceivable positive difference.

This is from Philips Web-site:

True blacklight fluorescent light: White objects have a dramatic glow under blacklight

Hmmmm. Is that what we are after by backlighting our plasmas, etc? A dramatic glow to the wall or frame of the display? Or are we just trying to reduce eye shock and strain with a soft glow as the display changes from dark to bright scenes in low light ambient conditions?

Well i'm going to go by either lowes or the depot tonight and pick up some rope light. i don't want to spend too much on it since I just bought the plasma and I'm on thin ice with the wife for that:)

Hopefully this might up the WAF as well:)

The only bad this is home depot is out of the 6ft rope so I'm going to get 3 2ft lengths and hook them together. The next is 12' but I only have a 42" plasma. i don't want to overdo it.

Well i got lucky and got the last 6ft rope light at lowes. I didn't get a dimmer as I will see what i looks like without one for now. I'll hook it up and play a movie tonight to test it.

Ok I've got it installed and I tried to keep it away from the vents where possible.....There is one section that goes over the vent do you think I should be worried? Pictures below.

Closer shot.....

I blocked the vents in a few places. I wouldn't be concerned. I haven't noticed the plasma all that hot and I doubt 2% of the vents being blocked will effect anything.

BTW, how do you post pictures directly in the post so it doesn't have to be downloaded?

I just click post reply (don't use the quick reply) and there a section to attach a file to your post.

Originally posted by gadgetfreaky
BTW, how do you post pictures directly in the post so it doesn't have to be downloaded?

OT: Attaching actual pics

The pictures need to be hosted on the internet..then you use the vb code tags.

My picturese aren't hosted. So here is my rope light attached to the plasma. Again, 50" panny, using 12' hampton bay rope light at home depot. With the $2.59 rope light track cut into 3 1/2" lengths. They have a adhesive on the back that is strong enough to hold, but not too strong where if you peeled it off it would leave any residue.

another picture

I tried the rope light, hated it. You can see the individual lights against the wall which I thought looked bad. I am all for a smooth soft light behind the plasma but this rope light makes it look like an ornament in a chineese restaurant. I just got my digital camera back from the shop and will post some pics of what Im talking about.

I at first also got the indifvidual lights reflected. However, since mine is on a tilt, the top is far enough away from the back so that I don't see that. On the bottom, instead of running the rope light close to the edge of the screen I moved it up about 3". Now I get just an even glow all the way around.

I also didn't notice that effect with mine. So far I'm happy with the setup.

My Ideal Lume arrived last week and I really like it. My 50PHD6UY sits on a cabinet on a pedestal stand and the Standard Ideal Lume sits on the cabinet behind it. I plugged it into a switched output of my A/V Rcvr so that it turns on/off automatically.
The addition of this light ended the eye strain that I had previously experienced and provides just enough light to allow people to find their way around in a room with no other lighting. While you could probably build your own, this is a well designed package that I consider worth the price. It is silent, runs cool, and sits neatly on the cabinet. I ordered the optional dimming filters in case it was too bright, but will not use them.

Originally posted by teknikk7
I tried the rope light, hated it. You can see the individual lights against the wall which I thought looked bad. I am all for a smooth soft light behind the plasma but this rope light makes it look like an ornament in a chineese restaurant. I just got my digital camera back from the shop and will post some pics of what Im talking about.

I can see that happening if your rope light is close to a reflective surface. The wall behind our TV is about a foot away from the back of our unit, so it just gives off a soft glow, You can't see the rope lights unless you are at a sharp angle to the TV, which you can't easily get to the way we have our front room set up. :)

-JR

Mark,

Just did a Google search for Idealume and could find nothing other than a bunch of posts on Home Theater Spot. Any links?

Update: Just found it:

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

Here's a question: what if the wall behind your display is not painted white? Ours is a golden yellow color, so could I get a different color bulb that would account for this yellow color and better correct for our Panasonic plasma display?

The light from Ideal lume comes with different colored filters that you can slide over the bulb.

FWIW, my wall is cream (close to golden yellow??) and it looks warm and inviting.

Just my .02

That's odd. The idealume I received 3 weeks ago came with 2 filters, gray smoke and gray smokier. :) I thought the idea is to limit the Kelvins of the bulb, not change its color. In fact on their web site the tout that the bulb they use is spectrally consistent, i.e. the color temperature across the spectrum is exactly the same for all frequencies (colors). The only 'color' that has the exact same temperature for all colors would look whiteish to us.

I went to a Lamps Plus and bought a 6500K philips bulb and fluorescent light balast. $22. Could have been less if I bought the fixture at home depot, which I think are $11 instead of the $16 I paid.

It's a 24" bulb. My plasma is mounted on a Dark brown furniture piece, and behind that is a dark brown velvet curtain wall. The ceiling is white.

I put the fixture on the back of the plasma laying on top of the tilting wall mount facing down. Facing up, there is only light on the top half of the plasma and with 8' ceilings, the light reflecting off the ceiling was too bright. Facing down, I get some glow off the bottom, but with the way the mounting bracket, most of the light is still going up, so I get about a 70% light going up and 30% of it going down. My wife and I watched a DVD and she said she liked it. In fact, she even said the picture looked better.

But, she also said she liked the glowing light of the rope light better, it's a yellowish cast of light and is perfectly even all around giving a floating picture look.

So, we are keeping both. At night watching TV, I have both on. During DVD movie viewing just the fluorescent light.

Not sure what the combo is giving me, but having both on, does look pretty good.

Bottom line, I'm glad I did it. Although I'm wondering how different the $100 idealume is to my $22 lamps plus solution.

I paid $50 for my idealume and 2 filters. It looks great as well.

Originally posted by gadgetfreaky
another picture

Those aren't handles that I see on your tilt mounted unit are they?

If they are, I think that is a type of "plasma blasphemy" and could be grounds for expulsion and as everyone knows, when you get expelled you lose your plasma to the first person that "whistle blows". You wouldn't want me to get your plasma now would you? :)

Don't really have anything to add to the original post...just, shamelessly, bumping a thread that seems to have been well received and has appeared to bump the WAF up a few notches as well.

Glad I could contribute.

ENJOY!!

Yes, those are handles. I'll probably take them off, I saw your other post and didn't realize how easy it would be. The handles did come in handy when lifting the plasma onto the mount though.

Originally posted by billt1111
I paid $50 for my idealume and 2 filters. It looks great as well.

Where did you get the light + filters for $50 :confused:
Dave

My bias lighting provided by the sun on my 5UZ Panny ED. Works well during the day anyway:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/xlr8also/plasma.jpg

Originally posted by daveok
Where did you get the light + filters for $50 :confused:
Dave

Thier web site. MSRP plus small discount.

Originally posted by billt1111
Thier web site. MSRP plus small discount.

bill,

Light $54.95
Kit $17.95
s&h $ 8.00

Total $ 80.90

That's a Large discount. Do you believe the $50. you quoted is correct?

Dave

I tried the rope light. My wife absolutely hated it. I am going to try ideallume.

Aaron

Ok,
I went to home depot and they have a lot of choices. Most are of the 3 foot plus variety or the direct wire under cabinet style of light. Finally are the rope lights which I don't want to do.
They do however have, next to the black lights, the short skinny fluorescent bulbs. I want the smaller dimmer ones since I don't want to illuminate the room, just glow. They had 'cool' 'soft white' 'aquarium' and 'blacklite'. They did have 'daylight' which is the only bulb with a color temperature on the label and it is 6500k. However it doesn't come in the smaller sizes. It also doesn't seem to use the compact ballast/mount but rather the under cabinet style which isn't what I want (I want the test tube style). Does anyone know what color temp the aquarium ones are?

In other news they had 6500k daylight screw type fluorescent bulbs. That is major appealing just I want to get one with a very low lumens. I don't need a 100w equivalent bulb. Just a 35w equivalent. Mail order probably...
looks like i'm swaying towards ideallume.

Seth

I bought an ideal lume. It works great. I needed the filter kit to tone the brightness down a little bit.

All of the lights discussed here including the flourescents are WRONG. There are new LCD strips that sell for $50 a foot that truly are spectacular. They look like shinning 3 carat diamonds and it is dead on 7,500K one must see it to believe it.

http://www.tivolilighting.com/productdetails.asp?seriesnumber=HB%20LED%20Directional%20Lig ht%20Tubinghttp://www.tivolilighting.com/images/Seattle%20bridge%201.jpg

how about some pics?

I did. The Bridge.

I wish I had known about these LCD strips when I was lighting my kitchen cabinet undersides, but anyway... the spec sheets don't mention any color temperature. Where did you find the 7500K figure?

I can tell the color of a xenon bulb so I called the factory to see how close it was; it was. They also have a warmer 3,800 but that looks like the regular strip light.

It is actually LED not LCD sorry. I saw it at SHOWEAST. It looks like a string of shining diamonds. It can also be dimmed by a lutron grafic eye.

This is going to be huge in HT. It could possibly be what phillips is using.

Originally posted by P Caulfield
I did. The Bridge.

Sorry, I was hoping for something more along the lines of a strip installed in a home entertainment center or on the wall, rather than on a bridge :)

And I've yet to see an LED that looks like a diamond :confused:

I'll oblige you in 4 months.

My philips 9976 has the lighting built in, its truely great. It seems capable of nearly any color or intensity that you want.

I believe wal-mart sells LED under cabinet lighting. That should work instead.

Seth

P Caulfield,

Please define "WRONG." Wrong, according to what standard? You mentioned 7500K as the color temperature for the LED product you are referencing. The standard for color video is CIE D65 (D6500K). The illuminants used in the Philips Ambilight feature are fluorescents, according to their spokesman at CEDIA EXPO. They will produce a wide range of colors and intensities but only one stable setting is correct for viewing color video images.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Has anybody tried making their own Ambilight?

I bought several red, green, and blue LED strips from superbrightleds.com and some parts from Radio Shack and BG Micro to make my own. I have a little box with three photocells (one each for R, G, B, with a filter in front of each) in front of the TV and the LED strips behind the TV reflecting off the wall. Light from the plasma TV shines on the box and the photocells drive some electronics that drives the LEDs proportionally.

The R and G channels seem to work OK, but I'm gonna have to fiddle with B; the photocells from Radio Shack are less sensitive to blue light.

If anyone is interested, I can post some pix next week.

Would definitely be interested. You might just have a money-maker on your hands there :)

Seth, any idea what section the LED lighting would be at Walmart?

I installed sconces on the same wall where my 50" Panny plasma is (to be) installed (next week). This does two things - gives very dim ambient light at lowest intensity (just like a movie theater) and allows you to have 'house lights' on at high inensity without any nasty reflections on the glass of the display.

Last time I saw it it was with regular light bulbs which is near paint and drano and surge protectors.
It's a small clear blister pack with like 3 LED discs connected by a cord with a transformer on one end. They can connect to eachother daisy chain.
http://popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/smart_consumer/2004/6/bright_stuff/index2.phtml

Seth

Thanks! I'm definitely going to check that out.

Attached are pix of my TV from the front, LEDs on the back (mounted with Velcro), and the sensor box, which sits in front of the TV.

Very nice!

Heres a link with more detail info on the LED product from walmart:

http://www.gelcore.com/news/feature.asp

- pink

Thanks. I'm a little concerned they're spread too far apart to provide an even glow behind a TV, but maybe if I get a little creative with the mounting it'll provide a more even glow.

Question for the experts: I'm going to have to put some kind of backdrop behind my TV before I put in a backlight, because right now it's in an angular entertainment center designed to fit into a corner, and I think a flat or rounded backing would show the light better than something that's bent at a 90 degree angle.

So, assuming all other things are equal and going with a white backlight, would a white or black backdrop be better? I was thinking black would look cleaner, but would love to hear some thoughts.

Thanks,

-tim

p.s. Any suggestions on what to use? I was thinking a giant piece of poster board that I could trim and curve to fit in there.

Originally posted by mr pink
Heres a link with more detail info on the LED product from walmart:

http://www.gelcore.com/news/feature.asp

- pink

Has anyone tried the single 5 LED string as a plasma backlight? Is one string of 5 enough or were more strings required?

I'm interested in trying these LED strips from Walmart. I would assume the 6-foot power cord is carrying 120v and then the transformer that outputs low voltage is directly connected to the LED strip. Is that correct?

I already have the plasma wall mounted and had a clock outlet installed. I don't want to have to take the plasma down and pay an electrician to do another clock outlet. Is there any way to put a low voltage extension cable between the transfer and the LED strip, so I can run the low voltage cable through the wall with my other A/V cables? I don't want to break the NEC by running high voltage cables through the wall, but I'd assume a low voltage cable after the transformer should be fine.

Thanks for the tip on these things. They look pretty interesting. I just hope they are close to D65 since I haven't yet seen a true spec online about that.

Actually, I did find that the Tetra white LED products, which the Walmart product may be based on, supposedly produces 6500K:

http://www.gelcore.com/markets/channel_letter/PDFs/PowWhDataWEB10_22_04.pdf

Can't really draw a conclusion from that whether the Walmart product is the same or not.

Is the idea of backlighting to turn off or down the lighting in your room and add the backlighting? I am using my 50" plasma mainly for watching TV-- HD and SD off satellite. Right now I have recessed lighting in the room on dimmers.

Thanks,
Ken

ken6217,

Here's a quick tutorial on video backlighting (bias lighting):
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

bob2hdtv,

I just got off the phone with the OEM for the WalMart product. He said that WalMart dropped the item in the US but still carries it in Canada.

GeorgeAB, thanks for the information. Too bad, I was hoping to try out the Walmart product, but I won't be near Canada anytime soon!

Does anyone have a suggestion for a low-voltage solution for backlighting? Are the rope lights low-voltage? I need to run low-voltage cable, without lights, through the wall (after transformer) from my media cabinet to the wall-mounted plasma.

Any of our neighbors to the north willing to go clean out the supply of their local Walmart for the benefit of their neighbors to the south? :)

Originally posted by BobDobalina
Any of our neighbors to the north willing to go clean out the supply of their local Walmart for the benefit of their neighbors to the south? :)

I'm sure that Rich H wouldn't mind (hint, hint), why not PM him?

hi

what model are we looking for? i have a friend that works for HomeDepot that might be able to help...

I'll confess to waiting to post this until my auction was finished, but a quick search at EBay found a few of these LED light strips for sale there, most for around $10! Do a search for "LED Cabinet Light" and you'll see two currently, one with a very attractive buy it now price.

Anyhow, I've ordered mine. Will post pictures when I get it installed.

Originally posted by rmcgirr83
Bias Lighting (Backlighting)
...I welcome all comments/questions....


[non constructive comment]

Originally posted by BobDobalina
I'll confess to waiting to post this until my auction was finished, but a quick search at EBay found a few of these LED light strips for sale there, most for around $10! Do a search for "LED Cabinet Light" and you'll see two currently, one with a very attractive buy it now price.

Anyhow, I've ordered mine. Will post pictures when I get it installed.

Hahhah bob I confess I was doing the same. :)

Which LED lights are you guys getting on Ebay? The GE ones or the other no name ones?

I got the GE ones.

please post your experience as soon as you can.
i am thinkingabojut the GE ones also!

I got my LED's last night (very fast shipping!) and I'm realizing that with my angular entertainment center, a backlight isn't going to do much good. I think even if I did put something behind the set I wouldn't be able to get anything resembling even light back there. So, probably over the holiday break, I'm going to do some major re-arranging of my entertainment center, see if I can take the top off of it, and put the back of the TV against a flat wall to reflect the light. Once I get that set up I'll post some pictures.

I'm honestly not sure whether a single set of lights will be enough. They're not as bright as I was expecting them to be. The color seems fairly good, though. There are five lights, and oddly the first and last two have a yellowish color shift, with the center one being white or perhaps even somewhat bluish. Overall they look ok, probably not the perfect backlight color, but for $18 or so I'm not complaining. I just hope I don't need a second set... we shall see :)

If you look hard enough you can find these LED strips at Walmart. I just found one on a clearence rack. $14 down from $24 YMMV

I've checked two Walmarts and haven't seen them in either. What section did you find them in clearance at?

FWIW, I don't think one strip will be enough, at least not for me.

i ordered this for $XXX, but it appears to be OOS.
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=18-ROPELIGHT

look for other places...http://www.compgeeks.com/images/150x150/CON-18-ROPELIGHT-BOX.gif

Originally posted by BobDobalina
I've checked two Walmarts and haven't seen them in either. What section did you find them in clearance at?

FWIW, I don't think one strip will be enough, at least not for me.

I agree. I have the Cinemaquest Ideal-Lume and now have tried a single strip of the LEDs. My plasma sits about 18 inches from the wall. The strip just puts a small blob of light behind the plasma and does not radiate well in all directions. The LEDs do not diffuse the light very well and seem to be highly directional. IMHO, I think it will take at least 2 strips, if not 4 (one on each of the four sides) for the strips to be acceptable.

The color of the LEDs is definitely more yellow than the Ideal-Lume but doesn't seem objectionable to me. It is still puts a soft glow, albeit slightly yellow-ish and concentrated behind the plasma.

Anyone try electroluminescent lighting? The lighting is continuous and can be dimmed.

http://www.luminousfilm.com/
http://store.yahoo.com/xenoline/repxen7.html

Looks cool... but maybe too dim?

For the record, I finally got a second strip of LEDs and went about trying to get them on the back of the TV. Since the LED light is so focused, I had a hard time getting the lights on the back of the TV to provide a nice even glow, rather than a very hard blob of light. After a bunch of fiddling I wound up spreading the two strips out on a strip of cardboard, taping them down, and laying that behind the TV so that they shine upward and illuminate the wall. The effect works, but it's not ideal. I'll try to take some pictures and post 'em.

Ron,

We have experimented with electro-luminescent wire. In our opinion, the current state of the technology does not provide precise enough color rendering and color temperature, or a long enough life span to be suitable for video backlighting applications. It was fun trying the stuff out but it was not any where near compatible with the demands of home theater use.

We are currently experimenting with 6500K compact fluorescents that screw into a standard light bulb socket and dim with a standard incandescent style dimmer. This could meet a wide variety of needs, including ceiling cans and track lighting.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

A search for "Ambilight" brought me to this thread. Seems like a gimmick.

While I'm sure that GeorgeAB has NOT been amused, I can't help but laugh at all you guys that bought $5,000 TVs, and now are looking for the cheapest, cheesiest, ugliest "solutions" you can find for backlighting! :D

Well, now I have to edit my post cuz I sounded a little nasty. In fact I was dead tired when I was reading this thread, and today I realize more clearly that the topic is in "Flat Panel Displays"! Duh! I can see how/why y'all have a problem getting light behind your TVs, and in particular why a "rope light" might be appropriate.

I have an issue with my background, but once I get a handle on that, I will probably test with a Reveal (daylight) incandescent before sending-off to George for the real deal. My TV is an LCD RPTV; not exactly flat...

Originally posted by Laserfan
I can't help but laugh at all you guys that bought $5,000 TVs, and now are looking for the cheapest, cheesiest, ugliest "solutions" you can find for backlighting! Amazing! :D

I'll agree with the cheapest part. Cheesy?? Maybe. Ugly?? Is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

Cheapest and cheesiest? If we wanted that we'd all have strings of christmas lights duct taped to the back of our TVs :)

Christmas lights are big business in Canada...

White LED outdoor Chirstmas lights recently hit the market, and when a neighbour of mine threw up a string, I was amazed by how bright (and cool colour-temperature wise) they were. I immediately thought of a bias lighting application.

Of course I wasn't thinking about stringin' up outdoor Christmas lights behind my PDP, but perhaps white LED's are the way to go.

A quick bit of research on white LED colour temps (I have to remember to spell colour "color" when Googling) reveals they are availabile in a variety of temperatures (e.g., warm (6500K) and cool (4500K) -- perhaps others).

http://www.korry.com/products/nightshield/led_light.stm

Unlike flourescent, LED's can be easily configured for variable brightness. They also consume very little energy. And those white LED's are wickedly white.

Ironically, while researching "LED bias lighting" I found out (well, I leared back in University but forgot) that LED's use a "bias" voltage which is unrelated to "bias lighting"...

As for a "cheap" solution... after spending nearly $25k on my home theatre, I am now only able to get funding for cheap projects from the Board of Director (i.e., my wife).

Ross

Well, i'll post pictures of my ghetto LED solution when I get a chance, and since you're in Canada, you can make a trip to Walmart and buy the lights in question.

I have an extra fiber optic light system that was originally intended for landscape lighting laying around... After reading this thread I am going to pick up a bulb for it that is as close to 6500k as I can get and run some fiber behind my display. Should be a perfect alternative if I can make it work - no heat from the light source at all.

Originally posted by BobDobalina
Well, i'll post pictures of my ghetto LED solution when I get a chance, and since you're in Canada, you can make a trip to Walmart and buy the lights in question.

...or Canadian Tire...

My CIOTD (crazy idea of the day -- as an engineer I have these every day) is to buy a string of white LED christmas lights at Wal*Mart, Canadian Tire or Home Depot as well as a long length of white opaque plastic tubing (say half or three-quarter inch in diameter) and pull the lights through the tube. (i.e., a home-made rope light using white LED's).

This would diffuse the light from the lights to make a more even "glow", and would also hide the fact that I've strung Christmas lights behind my PDP.

One problem is the spacing between the LED's on a Christmas string is probably a more than what you would want for a bias lighting application.

Ross

WARINING CCF inverters contain extremely high voltages! Take precautions when operating them. Be sure to Insulate inverter.


Well, Nobody has probably thought of this yet but, flatbed scanners all have the perfect color temperature CCF tubes in them along with the perfect matching inverter. Just extract the tube and inverter, wire up a 12v DC adapter and voila the perfect bias light. Old scanners can be had at thrift/junk store for $2-$10. Buy as many as you want, extract the bulbs and inverters and your done for >$20.

Originally posted by mustyput
Well, Nobody has probably thought of this yet but, flatbed scanners all have the perfect color temperature CCF tubes in them along with the perfect matching inverter. Just extract the tube and inverter, wire up a 12v DC adapter and voila the perfect bias light. Old scanners can be had at thrift/junk store for $2-$10. Buy as many as you want, extract the bulbs and inverters and your done for >$20.

Interesting suggestion, however I suspect you can't adjust the brightness of these lamps (please correct me if I'm wrong...)

Ross

bump...I was toying around with the idea of having a buddy of mine custom make a pure white rectangular neon-type lighting tube (think budweiser neon sign at your local pub) that would mount directly behind the plasma screen. Do you guys know if these types of lights produce a buzzing noise? I'll ask later this week since he's traveling but I was curious as to how to create the whitest light possible. 6500 kelvin is pretty damn white/blue. The HID's on my car are rated at 4300k and they're pure white. I think that would be a perfect temperature for a light source.

The LED strips look promising as well as by nature they consume much less energy and are more efficient than conventional candlescent bulbs.

6500 kelvin is pretty damn white/blue. The HID's on my car are rated at 4300k and they're pure white. I think that would be a perfect temperature for a light source.

The color of white used for video is 6500K. The "perfect" temperature for video back lighting is also 6500K. The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) recommends in their "Recommended Practices Document #166: Critical Viewing Conditions For The Evaluation Of Color Television Pictures" that ambient lighting used in video viewing environments be as close to CIE D65 as possible. D65 is loosely refered to as 6500K but is a more precise white point used for the standard of correctly calibrated video displays. SMPTE also recommends the wall behind the display be a neutral gray to white in color and the level of back light illumination to be less than 10% of the peak white output of the display.

Our video system is ruled by standards and practices set by SMPTE to insure consistent image quality all along the production chain. These standards and practices are not known or faithfully practiced by many consumers and even professionals in the home theater community. The ongoing mission of the Imaging Science Foundation has been to educate consumers and professionals alike in the importance of adhering to these display standards. If image fidelity is a priority, these rules must be understood and applied in any video system. Every video system design must take into account the viewer and the viewing environment, not just the equipment. Any departure from the rules will result in compromised image reproduction and perception.

Any personal preference, fad, fashion, whim or impulse which results in deviation from our video system rules will always cause some consequence to faithful imaging. SMPTE RP#166 was based upon human factors research and is intended to primarily promote correct image perception and secondarily viewing comfort. SMPTE found that D65 ambient lighting and a neutral colored surround within the field of view with the monitor screen promoted and preserved correct color perception in the viewer. This is what proper video back lighting is all about.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I set mine up using one of those fluorescent mechanic's under-bonnet lamps. It's about 12" long, and the ballast is on the wall plug end so there's no weight on the tube.

The tube is enclosed in a clear, tough plastic, and part of the tube is masked out with white card so only half the lamp shows. I rotated the lit slit half up the wall where it shows a nice even glow all round the set. I have white walls.

The unit sits neatly and firmly under the s-video cord going up behind my AV cabinet to my 50" Panasonic, and I also have it connected so when the main switch with everything connected gets turned on with a remote, so does the backlight.

As far as I can tell, it is the correct illumination (I spit on my finger and held it up to the light), and the results are very wow. Blacks - which are eye-stopping with this Panny anyway - seem to have more life, and the colors are not brighter, but crisper in some way.

I experimented with a halogen desk lamp, and though the color temp was warmer, it didn't have the same effect on the picture as the whiter fluorescent. Or maybe it was my imagination... after a while of tweaking it gets hard to see a major difference.

The only part I can't get used to is the feeling I'm not sitting in the dark like a proper theater. It's like a cross between a theater screen and a backlit fish tank.

Yet when I turn the bias light off, the image loses that pop. I'm addicted!

Ken.

I received my IdealLume plasma backlight a few days ago and am very pleased with both the product and the results. First, I've never received a product packaged so well via mail. The light was wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a box that was also wrapped in bubble wrap. This box was inside another box full of styrofoam peanuts. Needless to say, it arrived safely.

I popped in DVE for a backlight reference and began experimenting with the included filters. I found the lightest gel to be the best match for my setup. I previously had an office lamp with a GE Reveal bulb behind the plasma. The improvement from stepping up to the IdealLume was striking. The light from the IdealLume feels like it compliments the picture on the screen, rather than distracting from it. It's a soothing white glow rather than the relatively yellow lighting I had previously. Colors seem richer and watching a full 2 hour movie produced no eye strain.

I tried various alternatives such as Home Depot rope lighting (very yellow) and various florescent options (either too large, wrong color, or too noisy) over the last 6 months thinking I could find something sufficient for similar money. I always found the color, intensity, or dispersion of the light distracting. The IdealLume is the first backlight I've found that doesn't distract and "take away" from the image. It actually compliments the image. I'm sold.

BTW - To control the backlight with my universal remote, I picked up a 2002SHL Appliance Module (for florescents) and an IR-543 that receives IR and converts the signal to X-10 to control the lamp module. Got both @ Smarthome. Now I have a macro setup in my MX-850 called "Watch DVD" that turns on my backlight along with my PDP, Receiver, DVD, and sets all inputs. It's a convenient setup for WAF. All that said, thanks for the excellent product and service George!

As far as I can tell, it is the correct illumination (I spit on my finger and held it up to the light), and the results are very wow.

I've used this technique to determine which way the wind is blowing, but never to test correct illumination. Could you elaborate on the spit-on-finger test...?

Ross

It probably helps if you've been eating blueberries prior to the test. I hesitate to ask which finger was used. ;)

Thanks for the kind words and all the detail, housecor. What you experienced trying to find the best backlight solution is very much what I went through as a hobbyist before entering the home theater business professionally. My objective has been to save fellow videophiles all the time and trouble by offering pre-assembled and accurate solutions to quality video backlighting. It didn't hurt to have Joe Kane and Joel Silver helping me develop our products along the way either. I fully realize our pricing is more than many DIY hobbyist types want to consider but our customers are paying for all of our operating costs and the pains we take to get a very delicate product to them in shipping. After all these years, it's still very difficult for most folks to find reference quality components locally over the counter.

We are continually searching to find better solutions at reasonable prices to enable fellow videophiles and professionals to get the most from their hardware and programming investments. I have been an aggressive associate of the Imaging Science Foundation since 1998 and believe our company is unique in the world for our dedication to providing ideal viewing environment education, products and solutions. My pashion for ultimate electronic display imaging fuels my enjoyment in contributing to this forum and promoting greater understanding of imaging science principles in the home theater community. I can't emphasize too much how important human visual perception characteristics and viewing environment conditions are in any imaging system. Joe Kane has been saying for over a decade that the viewing environment is the most frequently overlooked element in proper display setup.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I've used this technique to determine which way the wind is blowing, but never to test correct illumination. Could you elaborate on the spit-on-finger test...?
Ross
It works the same way as wind Ross, but with light :)

...I hesitate to ask which finger was used. ;)
Never a rude one, George! :D

What I'm really trying to say is that I don't know what I'm doing, but like all ignorant people I have got some of it right through trial and error.

One day I'll get round to buying your product, but I'd like to check first that bias lighting is for me. For starters it is a peculiar way to see a screen backlit, and though it produces great results, I'm not sure about the experience.

Almost 5 decades of conditioned viewing have cemented this aged brain, and any different path takes a bit of mental adjustment!

Ken Silver

It works the same way as wind Ross, but with light :)

Ah, I understand now!

Ross

I just purchased a 9' LED rope light that actually is rated for 6500K white light. Since it is LED, it gives off no heat and I feel that is definitely a benefit since it is so close to the plasma display. I am going to mount it tonight and see how well it works. I have a very low profile mount (less than 1" thick), so I can't use any florescent lighting such as ideallume.

For anyone who has used rope lighting, how far from the back edge of the display should I mount the light? For example, three inches in from the outside edges all around the display? The biggest negative, other than the gap between lights, is that it is not dimmable.

Thanks.

Matt

MattNelson,

What is the make and model of your light rope?

-- Rich

Does anyone here use the Ideal-Lume Plasma? Is more than one of these units required?

I'm pre-wiring for my plasma now and would like to add a switched outlet for one of these lights so that I can just turn it on like any other light.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

Yep, I've used the Ideal lume Plasma backlight for months now and love it. Just ordered another for my aunt's plasma. ONE WARNING THOUGH, when I bought it I had it plugged into the receiver outlet so when the receiver was turned on it turned on the backlight. Great idea right? Wrong it turns out. The bulb burned out in 3 months and was supposed to last for years.

So, I emailed cinemaquest and the president said they knew about this and hooking it up this way was what caused the bulb to fail so quickly. As for their great customer service? He replaced it for free even though bulbs aren't under the warranty so I am remaining their customer for life and recommending them to friends, etc.

So, unless something has changed just plug it into the wall and flip the switch on the light itself manually when you want to use it. If this has changed the cinemaquest president will probably post it here as he's already posted in this thread I believe.

As far as the difference it makes? Huge. Greatly reduced eye strain, better color, contrast, etc. It just makes watching the dvd much better although you'll need to give yourself a few weeks to get used to it if you're always watched in total darkness like I used to.
I liked it right away though and highly recommend this backlight.

dvdguru,
I just ordered the Standard Ideal Lume for my Pio. I am currently looking for a IR controlled switch for it (not a wall mount switch, table lamp IR switch). Anyone have any ideas? I really want to control it from my ProntoPro NG.
-Evangelo2

As far as the difference it makes? Huge. Greatly reduced eye strain, better color, contrast, etc. It just makes watching the dvd much better although you'll need to give yourself a few weeks to get used to it if you're always watched in total darkness like I used to.
I liked it right away though and highly recommend this backlight.

As I think I wrote somewhere else in this thread, I seem to be the one hold-out here with the backlighting thing. I've tried it again and again, with all types of lights and I just can't enjoy the image as much.

It does indeed improve the apparent contrast. But I have a Panasonic and find the blacks deep enough. It would certainly decrease eye-strain, if one experiences eye-strain due to a too-bright image. But I don't seem to get eye-strain.

But I just can't help but be distracted from the image by the backlight. (And I've tried various lights on dimmers too, as well as the correct color temp flourescent back lights). I find it detracts from the apparent depth of the image, because I'm aware of a light behind the image, and it also detracts from my perception of the all the color details. Watching with the lights turned out, with no backlight, I find the depth of the image and all the color details stand out more.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

Just curious.

Also, DVDguru, what plasma do you have?

Thanks,

I use a backlight and like it. I simply bought an 8" plug in flourescent fixture... kind of an under-cabinet kind of thing... and picked up a 6500K bulb at the local every-kind-of-bulb-imaginable store. Total cost...~ $14.

Hey, the Panny TH50PHD7UY ISF calibrated by Gregg Lowen. The backlight also reduces glare on the screen which I like as well. If I could watch without eye strain I definitely wouldn't use a backlight but when I'm watching a pitch black scene and then it switches to a bright scene I can definitely feel my eyes adjust every time that happens. With the backlight they stay more "adjusted" to the screen and I don't have to squint, blink etc to get used to the new scene. I never thought I'd like a backlight either but with a plasma, lcd, etc it is important imho. With my older RPTV it wasn't an issue but an RPTV has much less light output...

Hey, the Panny TH50PHD7UY ISF calibrated by Gregg Lowen. The backlight also reduces glare on the screen which I like as well. If I could watch without eye strain I definitely wouldn't use a backlight but when I'm watching a pitch black scene and then it switches to a bright scene I can definitely feel my eyes adjust every time that happens. With the backlight they stay more "adjusted" to the screen and I don't have to squint, blink etc to get used to the new scene. I never thought I'd like a backlight either but with a plasma, lcd, etc it is important imho. With my older RPTV it wasn't an issue but an RPTV has much less light output...

That all makes sense.

I have occaisionally noticed a strain on my eyes when it switches quickly from a dark scene to a very bright scene, but it doesn't happen enough to make me require a back-light.

I agree, removal of glare is always important and the back light affords the ability to have a light on that isn't casting light on the screen.

I've been doing lots of experimenting to see how I'd like to set up my next room for another plasma. Since I don't like the back light directly behind the plasma I've had some good results like this: I have a black-out cloth that stretches about 9 ft of black behind the plasma, so there is no visual distraction from the image. It's better with the lights off because the last hint of bezel disappears and you just get the image floating in black. As far as eye-strain, I find I can have two lights on at the corners of the room, to either side of the plasma black-out cloth, situated somewhat behind the plane of the plasma. That way I don't really get any direct light on the plasma image, the room is lit so there isn't the eye-strain, yet I get most of the good stuff that happens with the plasma image being surrounded totally by darkness.

It's pretty amazing how even a decent SD signal looks, viewed in such a way.

Whatever floats our boat, huh?

Cheers,

I was thinking about trying back lighting but decided to pass.
The room already has indirect lighting hidden in cross-beams that light the ceiling.
They are fully dimmable.

So there is another way, light the ceiling not the wall :)

-- Rich

Backlighting gives a great picture and really works in reducing eye strain. If you like to watch in total darkness, you may not like a back light, but I prefer it.

I read about all the DIY backlight options discussed in this thread and then ended up just ordering the standard Ideal Lume from CinemaQuest. It's a solid product for a fair price. I don't understand why so many people want to try to "reinvent the wheel" by experimenting with alternatives. Just order the Ideal Lume. You'll be happy you did.

SDL

I don't understand why so many people want to try to "reinvent the wheel" by experimenting with alternatives. Just order the Ideal Lume. You'll be happy you did.
I didn't experiment. I just saw what the product was and bought it locally for alot less and had it installed the same day.

BTW, I also bought a kit TV console that I finished myself, assembled, cut the legs shorter and attached casters. Then I used black screening in the doors in place of the glass. I guess I'm a reinventing kind of guy! :cool:

You can kind of see the backlighting, but the room isn't very dark for this photo.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/429/semifull8yi.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=semifull8yi.jpg)
Click thumbnail for enlargement

Peter,

You're right, you didn't really experiment -- you just tried to duplicate the Ideal Lume as close as possible with local parts. Sounds like it worked out well. For me, it was a lot cheaper (at least in terms of time and energy) to go with the CinemaQuest solution.

I like your tv console. What did you use for the black screening? I have a wall unit that has a subwoofer compartment that I'd like to cover with a black mesh screen rather than speaker grill cloth. I'd like to find something that's similar to the metal grill material on some small speakers, but the only stuff I've seen locally is window screening, which seems a little too flexible and lightweight for what I had in mind. I need some mesh that is roughly 24" x 24". What did you use and how did you mount it?

SDL

dvdguru,
I just ordered the Standard Ideal Lume for my Pio. I am currently looking for a IR controlled switch for it (not a wall mount switch, table lamp IR switch). Anyone have any ideas? I really want to control it from my ProntoPro NG.
-Evangelo2

I believe someone in this thread earlier did exactly what youre looking for. Look back through and you will find it.

Peter,

You're right, you didn't really experiment -- you just tried to duplicate the Ideal Lume as close as possible with local parts. Sounds like it worked out well. For me, it was a lot cheaper (at least in terms of time and energy) to go with the CinemaQuest solution.
Thanks. Another factor for me was trying something cheap and returnable since I wasn't sure that I would like backlighting. I am in Alaska, shipping takes longer and is more expensive. Even if returnable, I have two way shipping to pay for.


I like your tv console. What did you use for the black screening? I have a wall unit that has a subwoofer compartment that I'd like to cover with a black mesh screen rather than speaker grill cloth. I'd like to find something that's similar to the metal grill material on some small speakers, but the only stuff I've seen locally is window screening, which seems a little too flexible and lightweight for what I had in mind. I need some mesh that is roughly 24" x 24". What did you use and how did you mount it?Unfortunately, it was plastic mesh window screening I used. Perfect for these little doors, but not what you're looking for. Though you might give it a try. After all, it is used on windows that are probably bigger than your subwoofer opening. Plus, it's cheap and comes in rolls that would allow you to replace it a couple of times if needed over time.

Home Depot sells a metal screen panel with diamond shaped openings about 1/4" x 3/8". It could be painted black easily, and would be very strong. I don't know if those openings are two big for what you have in mind.

Of course, there is the internet. Something like this:
http://www.mcnichols.com/metal-screen.htm
If they would be willing to sell in very small quantity.

I received my IdealLume plasma backlight a few days ago and am very pleased with both the product and the results. First, I've never received a product packaged so well via mail. The light was wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a box that was also wrapped in bubble wrap. This box was inside another box full of styrofoam peanuts. Needless to say, it arrived safely.

I popped in DVE for a backlight reference and began experimenting with the included filters. I found the lightest gel to be the best match for my setup. I previously had an office lamp with a GE Reveal bulb behind the plasma. The improvement from stepping up to the IdealLume was striking. The light from the IdealLume feels like it compliments the picture on the screen, rather than distracting from it. It's a soothing white glow rather than the relatively yellow lighting I had previously. Colors seem richer and watching a full 2 hour movie produced no eye strain.

I tried various alternatives such as Home Depot rope lighting (very yellow) and various florescent options (either too large, wrong color, or too noisy) over the last 6 months thinking I could find something sufficient for similar money. I always found the color, intensity, or dispersion of the light distracting. The IdealLume is the first backlight I've found that doesn't distract and "take away" from the image. It actually compliments the image. I'm sold.

BTW - To control the backlight with my universal remote, I picked up a 2002SHL Appliance Module (for florescents) and an IR-543 that receives IR and converts the signal to X-10 to control the lamp module. Got both @ Smarthome. Now I have a macro setup in my MX-850 called "Watch DVD" that turns on my backlight along with my PDP, Receiver, DVD, and sets all inputs. It's a convenient setup for WAF. All that said, thanks for the excellent product and service George!

Hey Cory,
I am trying to control my IdealLume Standard the same way as you. When I went to purchase the IR-543 it came up with the "4040 IR X10 COMMAND CONSOLE" which was also labeled "Infrared X10 Command Console IR-543". Here is a link to it (not linking for price, just product verification) (http://www.smarthome.com/4040.HTML). I also ordered the 2002SHL (http://www.smarthome.com/2002shl.html) which came up under two listings.
Just writing to verify that I ordered the correct 2 pieces to achieve controlling my IdealLume with a IR remote... Thanks.
-Evangelo2

Has anyone had any experience with these products?

http://illuminaire.com/

I really like the looks of the blue backlighting, I just dont know how well it would work being blue. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Hey Cory,
I am trying to control my IdealLume Standard the same way as you. When I went to purchase the IR-543 it came up with the "4040 IR X10 COMMAND CONSOLE" which was also labeled "Infrared X10 Command Console IR-543". Here is a link to it (not linking for price, just product verification) (http://www.smarthome.com/4040.HTML). I also ordered the 2002SHL (http://www.smarthome.com/2002shl.html) which came up under two listings.
Just writing to verify that I ordered the correct 2 pieces to achieve controlling my IdealLume with a IR remote... Thanks.
-Evangelo2

Yup, those are the right parts. I still really enjoy this setup. Being able to turn the light on when it gets dark from the couch is a great touch. And it saves bulb life since the light is only on when you need it.

Has anyone had any experience with these products?

http://illuminaire.com/

I really like the looks of the blue backlighting, I just dont know how well it would work being blue. Any opinions would be appreciated.
saw the ad for this and i am curious also looks like it was made for plasma.

Sorry I haven't responded regarding my LED rope lighting. Here is where I got it: http://shop.bellacor.com/wall-lighting/Cabinet-Lighting/detail-55625.htm

It is 6500K and 9'. I used some double sided tape brackets to hold it on the back of the plasma. Here is a photo of my 50PX50U.

http://www.fulcrumfs.com/graphics/Jpg/biaslight.jpg

It's not quite as bright as the photo looks, I enhanced it in photoshop to highlight the effect.

Matt

That LED backlighting looks really good in the photo. I tried to use the rope lighting, but it looked really horrible in real life.

I personally have the ideal-lume. It was very professionally well done, packaged extremely well for shipping, and had some additional filters to tone down the light. However, it only lights up the top of the display not really the sides or the bottom. That illuminaire sight looks really good. I would love to see their products in real life. I wonder if the cinemaquest guy could offer a comparison of the ideal-lume versus the illuminaire products since they are similarly priced.

The Illuminaire product is similar to a product we've had in R&D. It has been difficult for us to find accurate enough LEDs thus far. There are a lot of LEDs that claim to be 6500K but aren't close enough for our standards. When I get my hands on their version, I'll be able to speak to its characteristics and capabilities. It appears they are more focused upon the Philips Ambilight approach to bias lighting than wanting to help TV owners achieve the best imaging from their displays.

Our Ideal-Lume Plasma is about to be dramatically changed and re-named the Ideal-Lume Panelight. We ran out of inventory on that model prior to CEDIA EXPO. Unfortunately, we have been forced to terminate our relationship with that fixture's manufacturer. Their customer service was deteriorating, quality control was not up to our standards and they announced to us that they would be doubling our costs.

Our new dual-fixture model will be released in about a couple of weeks. It will be approximately 20% less expensive than the original, even with the two lights. We are going to use a 5/8" diameter T5 fluorescent that is custom made for us. Color rendering index is 90, the minimum recommended in industries that rely on accurate color comparison. This lamp has the highest CRI we could find in a T5 fluorescent. The new model fixture will be only 7/8 inch thick. Dimming will be by way of a mechanical baffle on each fixture that will be permanent. There will be no more messing with various filters required.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George,

I enjoy my ideal-lume plasma, but you have me interested in your new product. When you have this product ready for sale, I'd certainly like to receive a PM and an e-mail.

Aaron

George you got my attention with the new light i will have to buy it when available.

I'll submit to David Bott a notice for the Press Release section of the forum when we have everything ready. I'll also put a note on this thread. If you're subscribed to this thread, you'll get the e-mail notice when it appears.

One of the challenges we face with developing an LED back light is the inherent limitation of light spread. LEDs are very small lamps and have a narrow dispersion characteristic. Our prototypes look spotty on the wall, since the proximity to the wall surface is so close behind wall-mounted panels. The fluorescent lamps provide a very smooth and wide dispersion of their illumination on the wall.

Another challenge is a gradual color shift over time common to most illuminants. I have been told by a manufacturer who works with LEDs that this includes white LEDs. The LEDs will likely not be replaceable in the fixture. A new fixture with new LEDs would be necessary in that case, to get back to original chromaticity. Fluorescent lamps are simple to replace.

This new line of bias lighting is confirming my apprehensions about the potential market consequences of Philips' ad campaign. What we have again is a poorly executed product launch which promotes improper implementation of video back lighting techniques. Colored lights behind a video display skews the viewer's color perception of the picture on the screen. There also doesn't appear to be any attempt to educate the user in proper SMPTE recommended practice for correct eye strain relief. What good is a so-called "cool factor" light show if there is not provision included for an operational option that actually enhances image fidelity and viewer comfort? The principles of imaging science, display standards and human perceptual factors must be adhered to if the viewer is to get the most from their viewing experience.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

There also doesn't appear to be any attempt to educate the user in proper SMPTE recommended practice for correct eye strain relief.

George,

Would you mind elaborating on the above statement? I am not familiar with this at all and would appreciate it if you could educate me.

BTW, while I agree with you, Phillips ambilight does look cool. :cool: I noticed that some of their newest models don't come with ambilight just a backlight. Maybe they subscribe to this forum ;)

(hope you don't mind a little humor here...I still love and own your products.)

I look forward to getting the e-mail about your new product.

I am a little bit confused. The vast majority of the products I have seen, excluding the rope lighting, are located either horizontally or vertically. It seems to me that this will illuminate the top or the sides but not the entire panel. I would assume, in ignorance, that the ideal situation is the same back lighting all the way around the panel.

I don't know if this assumption is accurate or not. Perhaps some folks with the different systems can chime in with their thoughts.

Gypsy

George - The new plasma product sounds like a solid improvement. However, I have the current Ideal-Lume plasma (which I'm very happy with) and am concerned - will replacement bulbs continue to be available for this model?

My wife also likes the rope light. I have it on a dimmer and turn it down when we aren't watching TV. It gives a nice glow to the TV. Kind of artsy. But I really like the effect is presents to the eyes when watching. It prevents the eye strain when going from dark scenes to bright ones and we like to watch in a fairly dark room although the 42" Panny ED PDP is very bright even in my living room which has skylights and 12' sliding glass door.

Agogley,

Would you mind elaborating on the above statement?

Fundamentally, the illumination on the wall behind the display should not exceed 10% of the TV's peak white level. There are test patterns on all of the current home theater setup DVDs for setting this level. Other recommendations help with viewing fatigue but apply to viewing environment conditions not specifically related to ambient lighting. You may order "SMPTE RP166-1995: Critical Viewing Conditions For Evaluation Of Color Television Pictures" from www.smpte.org .

I try not to take myself or this home theater stuff too seriously. Perhaps the Philips Ambilight campaign has just been a big joke on their part, and at their expense, all along.

Jamxc,

The percentage of perimeter illuminated around a display is not critical for eye strain relief. As long as there is a biasing illumination present within a viewer's field of view while watching the display, the desired results will be achieved. It would be best for improving the perception of black level and contrast if the image is totally surrounded by backlighting. This condition would also appear more attractive aesthetically. Our new Panelight model will make this kind of application more affordable

The SMPTE recommendations devote much more discussion to color perception issues than viewing fatigue. Their concern was more for the color of the wall behind the monitor and the color of the ambient illumination being used. They promote using a true neutral wall color and lighting that is as close to CIE D65 as possible.

Housecor,

We will always carry replacement lamps for the products we have sold, as long as we can obtain them. The same applies to replacement dimming filter kits.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

SMPTE may be concerned about the color of my wall behind my display...but unfortunately my wife is not as concerned. Since I don't have to live with SMPTE, my wall will have to remain blue.

Nevertheless, the ideallume still works pretty good under this condition.

All (many) women should realize how important the surrounding colors in a display viewing environment can be, if they care about the picture quality on the screen. How much effort and expense is dedicated in our economy and culture toward the appearance of the female face? Complexions vary significantly from one woman to another. Subtleties of skin color determine what makeup is used, how the hair may be colored, choices in wardrobe, jewelry design, etc., etc. Every color viewed in proximity to a woman's face will either complement or clash with her complexion. The wrong choices will either enhance or diminish the perception of her beauty.

Cinematographers and theatrical professionals know that makeup must be applied under the same lighting that will be used on the set or stage. SMPTE's viewing environment recommendations insure consistent, natural and faithful perception of the subtleties of color, hue and shading in a video program. The wrong choices in wall color and lighting around a video display will either enhance or diminish the perception of picture quality and image fidelity. Priorities may differ, but compromised viewing environment conditions come with inevitable and real consequences.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

All women should realize how important the surrounding colors in a display viewing environment can be, if they care about the picture quality on the screen...

Umm... ok, a little beside the point, but not all women know about, notice, use, or care about beauty products and jewelry. Not to attack your personal beliefs or anything (whatever they may be), but you might want to avoid about making gross generalizations about half of the planet's population!

Aykew,

You're absolutely correct about the presumption in using the word "all." I should have used "many." However, if ANY woman cares about the picture quality on their TV's screen, they still would benefit from being aware of the impact surrounding colors have on its appearance.

Best regards,
Alan

tjh011,

I was able to take some measurements with my spectroradiometer of the product you expressed an interest in earlier in this thread. You may send me an e-mail or call the office if you want the results.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hey, the Panny TH50PHD7UY ISF calibrated by Gregg Lowen. The backlight also reduces glare on the screen which I like as well. If I could watch without eye strain I definitely wouldn't use a backlight but when I'm watching a pitch black scene and then it switches to a bright scene I can definitely feel my eyes adjust every time that happens. With the backlight they stay more "adjusted" to the screen and I don't have to squint, blink etc to get used to the new scene. I never thought I'd like a backlight either but with a plasma, lcd, etc it is important imho. With my older RPTV it wasn't an issue but an RPTV has much less light output...

I have the exact same experience. Had a visitor from Houston this past weekend and he asked about the rope light. Thought it would distract him from the action but he said it seemed to draw him in more to the action.

:)

George,

What would be interesting, if you were to agree, would be a comparison of rope light, tjh011's and your ideal lume.

Sadly enough I don't have a spectroradiometer....and wouldn't know what to do with it if I did. lol

Hi guys:

I am getting a TH-50PHD8UK today and am considering an inexpensive (key word) backlight.

The panel will stand in the corner of the room on a tabletop stand; the walls are all painted neutral white.

There will be plenty of room on the stand behind the panel to put a backlight. It should reflect pretty good off the neutral white walls, enhancing the apparent contrast (which is what I am looking for).

Where can I find a cheap 65000K fluorescent to see if I like it? Aquarium stores, marijuana growing supply stores (:D), Home Depot - any ideas?

Where can I find a cheap 65000K fluorescent to see if I like it? Aquarium stores, marijuana growing supply stores (:D), Home Depot - any ideas?

65000K? The sun comes to mind or a few HID-lamps. :p :)

All the stores you have listed will have 6500K lights as well as non-6500K ones.

65000K? The sun comes to mind or a few HID-lamps. :p :)


A little fusion reactor should do the trick, too....:D

rmcgirr83,

The online ad for the rope light says "approximately 6500K." I don't think I'll waste my time obtaining a sample for analysis. A recent illuminant I tested claimed outright to be 6500K and measured at 8500K. Both my office assistant and I noticed it was too blue before we even started. There is a lot of guesswork and lax monitoring of accuracy in the lighting industry.

wojtek,

You might not "like" the results you get with cheap. Will that cause your opinion of display backlighting to become a negative one? The most knowledgable and respected authorities in the field of reference imaging recommend the use of 6500K backlighting with your type and size of display. They are recommending what is accurate, however.

You may be able to find accurate for cheap. Just don't settle for less than a 90 CRI lamp that's really 6500K. There's a lot more to the benefits of correct video backlighting than improved perception of contrast.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Has anyone had any experience with these products?

http://illuminaire.com/

I really like the looks of the blue backlighting, I just dont know how well it would work being blue. Any opinions would be appreciated.

I purchased the Illuminaire PL118 and it showed up on my doorstep today. Since it doesn't seem anyone else has tested one of these I will report back my opinion and maybe post some photos as well.

I plugged a standard Ideal Lume into the switched power outlet of my AV reciever a year ago and can't understand why anyone would want anything better or more trouble free. The only mistake I made was to order the extra filters which I have not used. The illumination level was perfect without them.

I purchased the Illuminaire PL118 and it showed up on my doorstep today. Since it doesn't seem anyone else has tested one of these I will report back my opinion and maybe post some photos as well.

Any feed back yet??? anxiously waiting :)

My sample of their "white" version measured at 8500K on a spectroradiometer, and looked noticeably blue-ish to both myself and my office assistant. Other samples may vary. I admire their products' overall form factor and various switching and dimming features. The user instructions fall far short of effectively educating the consumer about the legitimate use of such a technology.

It's obvious to me that they are trying very hard to emulate the Philips Ambilight concept in a line of aftermarket products. I expect they will appeal to a certain segment of the public. I consider both their approach, and Philips' Ambilight feature set, disruptive to image fidelity and/or viewer comfort. This is not my opinion. Any cursory study of imaging science, display standards and human perceptual factors, would support such an appraisal.

I have actually recommended their products to one of my customers. They wanted something like the Ambilight multi-colored light show option. Since I don't have any desire to produce such a product, it was a simple matter of helping him locate what he wanted. He also purchased one of my products for serious viewing sessions.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

any news on the new ideal lume products?

I have one on order.

John

We have only been receiving a trickle of parts shipments for the new models. Our major shipment has been delayed and won't arrive until the first week in December. For this reason, I have not made any major announcements to the general public. The new model descriptions are posted on our web site now, since we totally ran out of the old inventory already.

We have been able to respond to a few orders that have come in to our online store, but already have about 40 customers on back order. I expect some parts to come in this week but they won't last very long. If anyone wants to order we will only be able to ship on a first-come-first-served basis. By the second week in December we should be in much better shape. This has been very frustrating for us. I don't like to tell people we don't actually have what we're selling. Thankfully, most of our customers have been understanding and patient.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

I'm moving so I'll wait until the New Year to order the new product (wow, it's not inexpensive either!)

Now all we need are some photos.