well all i knows is that mine does not output 480i and 480p over hdmi using version 1.8.111 to my vizio p50hdm.
I just had CNN on while I stepped forward to check for HBOHD movies to capture and the box was outputting 480i on HDMI to the DVI input on my Sony HS20. FWIW.

I just saw the advertisement at the top of this forum for the additional SATA hard drive to add to the SA 8300 HD. Will this work with an SA 8300 HD with the Passport software? I have programming that I'd love to be able to pull off of my box from BHN.

I just saw the advertisement at the top of this forum for the additional SATA hard drive to add to the SA 8300 HD. Will this work with an SA 8300 HD with the Passport software? I have programming that I'd love to be able to pull off of my box from BHN.

Not yet!! Stay tuned though.

I'm using HDMI-HDMI and I can output all formats to my JVC. I only use 720 and 1080 however. The flicker between HD and 480 is shorter than the 8000 but not short enough to not be annoying.

Using only 720 and 1080 the only sync adjustment it makes is going to and from a 1080 broadcast.

Not yet!! Stay tuned though.

Yeah, some of us have been "staying tuned" for a couple of years now. I'll believe it when I see it (Passport support for SATA drives), provided I live that long. :rolleyes:

I have tried every combination, all of the formats(480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i), 1080i only, 720p only and 1080i and 720p. To be honest, with the naked eye, I can't really tell in difference in picture quality on my Hitachi 32 in. plasma tv using component video. Is the difference only noticeable using HDMI? My second question is: what channel(s)/network(s) broadcast in 480p? I haven't found one on TWC.

I have tried every combination, all of the formats(480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i), 1080i only, 720p only and 1080i and 720p. To be honest, with the naked eye, I can't really tell in difference in picture quality on my Hitachi 32 in. plasma tv using component video. Is the difference only noticeable using HDMI?
Some are using much larger displays. Fine detail is more noticeable on those. I, however, also noticed better black levels - blacker blacks - when moving from component to HDMI/DVI.

I have tried every combination, all of the formats(480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i), 1080i only, 720p only and 1080i and 720p. To be honest, with the naked eye, I can't really tell in difference in picture quality on my Hitachi 32 in. plasma tv using component video. Is the difference only noticeable using HDMI? My second question is: what channel(s)/network(s) broadcast in 480p? I haven't found one on TWC.

Not sure if any channels broadcast in 480p anymore (FOX Widescreen used to b/f they switched to 720p) but 480p is a very important resolution for the 8300 as most 480i channels are converted to 480p as soon as you go into the buffer when watching live tv (by pausing for example). Also in some TW markets (including NYC where I am located) there are virtually no 480i channels left. Nearly every single SD channel comes through my 8300 as 480p.

Separately, as someone mentioned earlier, some TVs (in fact many TVs) won't accept 480i over HDMI. My Samsung DLP, for example only takes 480p, 720p and 1080i. So those are the three resolutions I have activated on my 8300 over HDMI. PQ is great over HDMI and virtually no lag on channel changes when dialing in new resolutions.

I got the same problem on and off. I got this box today at 23st. Im going back to get a new one. I hope it works. :confused:

I got a new 8300HD box at 23st this A. m. This box works no more on & off. I hopeit will keep on working :cool:By the way I asked for a rev 2.4 box thay do not have any they looked all over could not fined one

Not yet!! Stay tuned though.

Well I've got a severly buggy box from BHN right now with some HD content that I don't want to lose by trading in the box. I need some way of archiving it... is it possible to attach the internal hard drive to a computer and nab the files off of it that way? Is it a recognizable file system?

No (attach to PC)
No (Recognizable file system)
Sorry,
Data stored is encrypted (tied to specific 8300).

Has anyone done anything with the AUX inputs on the 8000 boxes, in my case, it's on the non-HD SA8000 ?? My bedroom TV only has RF and composite inputs and I wanted to have a DVD player and the 8000 connected via composite only. Doing so gets no pass-through of the DVD player. I turned the 8000 "off" thinking it would let it through then, but nothing.

Is this another hardware feature unsupported by the Passport software ??

No (attach to PC)
No (Recognizable file system)
Sorry,
Data stored is encrypted (tied to specific 8300).
Obviously, people are not expending any effort to search this thread . . .

It seems like a new bug has cropped up in the new software here in Socal....on the first occasion, I was only getting pro-logic output, when I knew that the program was being broadcast in DD5.1 (IMAX on INHD). I went into settings, advanced and under audio output it was setup as "2 channel only", I hadn't ever touched this setting. Then last night, I turned on the box and there was no sound at all, on any channel. I again went into settings, and it was set to DD output. I switched it to "2 channel only" and bam, there was sound, I had to do a cold boot, then everything was back to normal...anyone else experience this yet??

It seems like a new bug has cropped up in the new software here in Socal....on the first occasion, I was only getting pro-logic output, when I knew that the program was being broadcast in DD5.1 (IMAX on INHD). I went into settings, advanced and under audio output it was setup as "2 channel only", I hadn't ever touched this setting. Then last night, I turned on the box and there was no sound at all, on any channel. I again went into settings, and it was set to DD output. I switched it to "2 channel only" and bam, there was sound, I had to do a cold boot, then everything was back to normal...anyone else experience this yet??

Im seeing similar but not identical behavior. If I play back a recorded show that is in DD my receiver indicates 2 channel (Pro Logic). Going into the 8300HD menu indicates the setting is DD. If i change it to 2 channel and exit the menu and then go back and change it back to DD the output will switch and the receiver will indicate and play DD. I am DVI attached with coaxial to the receiver. Very annoying.

Maybe I missed it, but here's an HDMI/HDCP annoyance that I haven't seen mentioned before. I was recently copying a sitcom to a VCR. While the copy was progressing, I decided to turn off the TV. Oops!! When I did this, the HDMI/HDCP protocol also turned off the cable box, and thus ruined my videotape recording session.

This is not such a big deal if you know about it, but it sure annoyed me this afternoon.

-barry

It seems like a new bug has cropped up in the new software here in Socal....on the first occasion, I was only getting pro-logic output, when I knew that the program was being broadcast in DD5.1 (IMAX on INHD). I went into settings, advanced and under audio output it was setup as "2 channel only", I hadn't ever touched this setting. Then last night, I turned on the box and there was no sound at all, on any channel. I again went into settings, and it was set to DD output. I switched it to "2 channel only" and bam, there was sound, I had to do a cold boot, then everything was back to normal...anyone else experience this yet??
This (and a bunch of other problems) all started when they upgraded the PASSPORT ECHO software (9Sep05 for TWC-San Diego).
They added DIGITAL AUDIO to the SETTINGS-MORE SETTINGS menu in order to select HDMI, DOLBY DIGITAL or PCM STEREO.
Unfortunately, that portion of the software that generates alert messages does not save and restore the current settings when it switches to PCM STEREO mode to sound the "DING":
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/4059.html?1132324572

You can minimize this problem by not using the new REMINDER ALERT function and by carefully avoiding actions that result in programming conflicts.

And be sure to send your complaints to TWC's website....and also phone them in....

I have a Panny 50" 50U Model.
I have tried Component and HDMI connections.
I find the 8300 HD Box to perform better at changing channels and aspect ratio changes connected via Componenet Video rather than HDMI.
I find the HDMI connection to have much better audio and excelent picture quality in HD but awful picture quality in SD.

On the box I have tried the Easy / Advanced Setting with no major differences.

Additionally if HDMI is conected I get no sound w/ S Video Connection Source.

Picture through 4 Megapixel camera are not sharp on the display.

Am I missing something here?

Can anyone offer this newby connection advice or setting changes that will enable me to get the best out of HDMI w/ 8300 HD Box?

Ratclib

The remotes TW in Western OH distribute do NOT have these buttons.

On the subject of remotes and the SA boxes, has anyone found a reasonably priced 3rd party remote that has the all-important "A", "B", and "C" buttons ??


I use a Harmony, awsome remote for the money. can program it to do what you want.

I had TWC installed this weekend and the installer gave me an Explorer 8000HD. Should I request the 8300 box? When the installer was showing the me how to access the list for shows I would be recording, we found numerous prerecorded shows all the way back to Jan 2005! BTW: I have my Panny 42px500 connected via component and using the PDP speakers.
Thanks!

The 8300HD is a better box but you can try the 8000HD and see how it does for you.

You would think TWC, or any cableco, would have a procedure for wiping the HDDs on returned boxes and doing other general checks of the box.

The 8300HD is a better box but you can try the 8000HD and see how it does for you.

You would think TWC, or any cableco, would have a procedure for wiping the HDDs on returned boxes and doing other general checks of the box.

Can you define "a better box"? To me it doesn't make sense to spend $3k on a PDP and use an inferior/outdated STB... Especially when I want features comparable to my old DirecTivo.

Both boxes use the same basic software, Pioneer's Passport Echo. There aren't any features on the 8300HD that aren't on the 8000HD software-wise.

The 8300HD can output on multiple outputs at the same time whereas on the 8000HD only one at a time worked. The 8300HD supports Firewire (though the software currently doesn't). The 8300HD has a faster CPU and more RAM. The faster RAM simply allows the box to feel snappier, i.e. menus/guide displays and scrolls faster, commands respond faster, and so on. More RAM allows the box to output more lines of resolution, which the 8000HD apparently was starved of. I seem to recall something like 900+ lines on the 8000HD vs 1300+ on the 8300HD.

I cannot remember for sure, but I think the 8000HD does not support the newer alpha search of the Program Guide that the 8300HD offers.

Also, only _some_ of the 8300HD's support Firewire (older one's do not even have the physical port), and there is some (spotty) software support for it.

Also, the 8300HD has HDMI output and I think the 8000HD does not. HDMI performance is quirky, due to a questionable HDCP implementation.

-barry

I cannot remember for sure, but I think the 8000HD does not support the newer alpha search of the Program Guide that the 8300HD offers. Since the 8000HD can run the same software, theoretically it could have that search capability.
Also, only _some_ of the 8300HD's support Firewire (older one's do not even have the physical port), and there is some (spotty) software support for it. You're correct, but that's more or less because SA has different model/configurations available for the cablecos to order. As of July or August, all boxes *ordered* from SA *do* have Firewire ports.

Also, the 8300HD has HDMI output and I think the 8000HD does not. HDMI performance is quirky, due to a questionable HDCP implementation.

-barry
thank you margoba...and to make it worse, theyre not doing a damn thing about it because they dont care about HDMI. if everyone started sending these boxes BACK, maybe theyd address that.

This is all so simple; the 8300HD is 300 better than the 8000HD. :)

The HDMI/HDCP works on a LOT of TVs and I'd bet it's the majority of them too. I know many with projectors have problems though. Who's to say that the projector manufacturers didn't follow or adhere explicitly to the spec ?? Just because it works with other equipment doesn't mean they did as those other devices may have workarounds.

Another annoyance has cropped up with my SA 8300 HD: the box loses the ability to scale to a full picture in 16:9 mode. Zoom will not even fill the frame. I have to do a warm reboot to fix the problem. Also the hard drive is quite noisy on this box.

Another annoyance has cropped up with my SA 8300 HD: the box loses the ability to scale to a full picture in 16:9 mode. Zoom will not even fill the frame. Reminds me of another feature (can't say it's an improvement in most cases) is that the 8300HD can manipulate 16:9 signals with Zoom or Stretch. The 8000HD couldn't do anything with those.
Also the hard drive is quite noisy on this box. Not here.... Either I've gotten used to the sound or the HDD in the 8300HD is quieter. It's the same drive though, model # at least, but maybe they've made changes internally to the HDD.

I just spoke w/ a CSR Supervisor with TWC and she stated they're out of the 8300. However, she did advise that she would call me when they got more in so she could schedule an installer to come swap out my 8000. I won't be keeping my fingers crossed but oh well...

Reminds me of another feature (can't say it's an improvement in most cases) is that the 8300HD can manipulate 16:9 signals with Zoom or Stretch. The 8000HD couldn't do anything with those.

On my 8000, when I press the # key it adjusts the picture from "stretch" -> "zoom" -> "normal" settings. I believe it is only passing 1080i to my 42px500... I haven't had time to mess with allowing 720p/480p/480i to pass through and use the aspect settings on the PDP. So far everything coming from the DVR looks fine especially HD.
-Louie

Hello everyone,

I just swaped out my 8300HD with a new one with the firewire ports on the back. I'm trying to hook it up to a PC with a firewire port. I'm getting nothing, no detection, or anything else (tried both ports and the PC's port works with other devices). I see the 1394 enable always in the diagnostic menu (is that the same as the "service menu"?). I don't see any of the below info regarding Plug IDs or Status anywhere.

It's running 1.8.095, could this be the problem? Or is there some slim chance that a 6pin to 4 pin firewire transfer wouldn't work? I'd appreciate any help, I hope this isn't posted in the wrong place.

Thanks.

finally got an 8300HD installed. A Sept 05 build version 2.2.

Echo version: 1.8.111
OS: PowerTV 6.14.43.3sp

I noticed firewire is stated as enabled in the service mode with no copy restrictions.
Plug ID:128
Plug Status: Idle
SPTSS: True
plus some kind of local address number.

The only other thing I noticed is that it's using a Western Digital drive. WD1600BB

Now I'm trying to figure out a way to switch between 5.1 and HDMI using a Harmony 880 for when I don't feel like messing around with the receiver.

I think s/w v1.8.112 or so was the first version that had any support for Firewire in it.

Where are you located ?? Do you have TWC ?? I don't recall seeing 1.8.095 mentioned by anyone else.

I'm in York County, SC. And I don't have TWC, I have Comporium, so I guess I did post in the wrong place (I missed the TWC in the title). Sorry about that, but thanks for the help, I suppose I need to call the cable company and see about a s/w upgrade. Is that something they can just do? They have to provide me some sort of firewire capability if I request it right?

Thanks again.

I think s/w v1.8.112 or so was the first version that had any support for Firewire in it.

Where are you located ?? Do you have TWC ?? I don't recall seeing 1.8.095 mentioned by anyone else.

I'm in York County, SC. And I don't have TWC, I have Comporium, so I guess I did post in the wrong place (I missed the TWC in the title). Sorry about that, but thanks for the help, I suppose I need to call the cable company and see about a s/w upgrade. Is that something they can just do? They have to provide me some sort of firewire capability if I request it right?

Thanks again.
I'm in York County, PA and I don't have TWC either. But I have 8300HD and Passport. We'd be lonely posters if we waited for threads for "Comporium" or "Suscom York." :)

You can certainly call your provider, but be prepared to take a lot of time speaking to CSRs who haven't a clue. Try to get to a technical supervisor/manager. With what you learn here, you wll be in the top 1% of cable subscribers on your system, eclipsed most likely by only the cable provider's technicians. (Actually, that's not saying that much.) Be persistent.

There's no problem with you posting here. The only problem will be lack of knowledge regarding the software version you're using.... Some things some of us can help (or guess :D) with and others, well, we just won't know.

As for your cableco just doing a software update for you .... fat chance. I assure you, their attitude is "it ain't broke, we ain't fixin' it".

Hello everyone,

I just swaped out my 8300HD with a new one with the firewire ports on the back. I'm trying to hook it up to a PC with a firewire port. I'm getting nothing, no detection, or anything else (tried both ports and the PC's port works with other devices). I see the 1394 enable always in the diagnostic menu (is that the same as the "service menu"?). I don't see any of the below info regarding Plug IDs or Status anywhere.

I'm not at my 8300 right now but I seem to remember a menu in diagnostics where you have to press select to cycle through the available devices. Check your FW option and see if it says "press select to choose devices" or something similar. Then it might give you more info.

I'm not at my 8300 right now but I seem to remember a menu in diagnostics where you have to press select to cycle through the available devices. Check your FW option and see if it says "press select to choose devices" or something similar. Then it might give you more info.

I'm not at the DVR either, but the only reference to the firewire is in the "copy protection" section. And it only says enabled. Nothing to press or no submenus I see. Searching as well as I was able, it does seem like no one has used firewire with anything less than 1.8.112 (I think). So I may be out of luck there.

Is there somewhere I can go to get some clarification on this whole "requirement" to provide firewire? While I value this forum above all (goes without saying). Telling my cable company, "You must give me firewire cause AVS Forum says so!" may not work. *laugh* Regardless I'll be calling them this evening and trying my luck. We'll see what happens.

Al

With 1.8.112, an additional menu item on the left-hand column was added regarding something about Firewire/1394.

As for your cableco providing you a firewire-enabled box, don't push them. That's all they have to supply is "a box". It does NOT have to be a DVR. My local Time Warner has SA8000HD and SA8300HD high-def DVRs available but no working Firewire that I know of. I you request a FW-enabled box from them, they give you a Pioneer 3250HD, I believe. That is NOT a DVR. They are in compliance too.

I don't know if this news release, http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-238850A1.pdf, has been superseded by something different, but read the item starting with "high-definition set-top boxes" on page 3. Do NOT read between the lines or try and interpret it any other way than it's written though. It's pretty clear that if a cableco does what mine does, they're in compliance.

With 1.8.112, an additional menu item on the left-hand column was added regarding something about Firewire/1394.

As for your cableco providing you a firewire-enabled box, don't push them. That's all they have to supply is "a box". It does NOT have to be a DVR. My local Time Warner has SA8000HD and SA8300HD high-def DVRs available but no working Firewire that I know of. I you request a FW-enabled box from them, they give you a Pioneer 3250HD, I believe. That is NOT a DVR. They are in compliance too.

I don't know if this news release, has been superseded by something different, but read the item starting with "high-definition set-top boxes" on page 3. Do NOT read between the lines or try and interpret it any other way than it's written though. It's pretty clear that if a cableco does what mine does, they're in compliance.

Thanks for the response, I'm probably leaning toward getting a non-dvr HD box anyway if everything thing else works out, I just didn't want to lose the DVR until it was all ready. But thanks for clearing up the whole "compliance" thing. I've seen reference to a Scien. Atl. 3250HD box, is that the same as the Pioneer? If so, it should be fine for my needs. I'll check with the cable co. and see what they have. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks.

I mix up the Pioneer and SA boxes as they seem to have very similar model numbers.... In the end, it depends on what *your* cable co has anyway. Just re-checked my e-mail and it is the SA box, not a Pioneer.

I mix up the Pioneer and SA boxes as they seem to have very similar model numbers.... In the end, it depends on what *your* cable co has anyway. Just re-checked my e-mail and it is the SA box, not a Pioneer.

Cool, makes sense. Either way looks like I can accomplish what I want with either 2 3250's or 1 8300 with working firewire, so we'll just have to see what Comporium has (website says they have a non DVR HD box). And 2 non DVR boxes would be the exact monthly cost as 1 DVR HD Box. I really didn't want to have to get 2 boxes in order to get 2 HD tuners, but no biggie. If they'd just keep their software updated..... :)

I'm sure I'm not the only person around here who perpetually lives 6 months to a year ahead of where the rest of the world is technologically! *Laugh* How many times have you told someone "Trust me, SOMEDAY everyone will want one!"? :D

Al

With 1.8.112, an additional menu item on the left-hand column was added regarding something about Firewire/1394.
...

Your post caused me to check the status of my 8300HD software. On 1.8.003 firewire was not active. I am now on 1.8.112. My JVC 4K now recognizes the 8300HD via firewire but immediately freezes.

Your post caused me to check the status of my 8300HD software. On 1.8.003 firewire was not active. I am now on 1.8.112. My JVC 4K now recognizes the 8300HD via firewire but immediately freezes.

I'm on 1.8.111, I have the 1394 option with ability to check connected devices but don't have any way to test it beyond the enabled indicators in the menu that I posted previously.

Your post caused me to check the status of my 8300HD software. On 1.8.003 firewire was not active. I am now on 1.8.112. My JVC 4K now recognizes the 8300HD via firewire but immediately freezes.
Same experience here with my JVC 5U.

Im seeing similar but not identical behavior. If I play back a recorded show that is in DD my receiver indicates 2 channel (Pro Logic). Going into the 8300HD menu indicates the setting is DD. If i change it to 2 channel and exit the menu and then go back and change it back to DD the output will switch and the receiver will indicate and play DD. I am DVI attached with coaxial to the receiver. Very annoying.


I have the exact same problem in Dayton OH with passport 1.8.112. I never had to deal with it when I had 1.8.095 up till Nov 22. If this issue has been know in San Diego since September, why are they continuing to roll it out? Basically I have to go into the menu (twice) to watch anything in 5.1 annoying...

I have the exact same problem in Dayton OH with passport 1.8.112. I never had to deal with it when I had 1.8.095 up till Nov 22. If this issue has been know in San Diego since September, why are they continuing to roll it out? Basically I have to go into the menu (twice) to watch anything in 5.1 annoying...

Same problem here in NC, but I've found if I go to Settings and simply re-select the already selected DD setting and exit, my 5.1 sound will turn on (without go in and out twice). I'm also connected HDMI to TV and Coaxial Audio to Receiver. It is a PITA that this is going on...

Not yet!! Stay tuned though.

What are we waiting on? I have e-mailed people at TW corporate and locally and all I get is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about no timetable, etc, etc, etc.

TW purchased Maxtor extender units back in January (see Maxtor press release at their website) but still hasn't done anything about offerring them to customers or enabling the ports so that we can buy our own storage units. These things are supposed to be plug and play, how long can it take to test them?

Or is TW messing around trying to figure out how to lock us out (or selectively enable only specific users) and only get more storage by going thru them so they can charge a unending monthly charge for this feature?

TW purchased Maxtor extender units back in January (see Maxtor press release at their website) but still hasn't done anything about offerring them to customers or enabling the ports so that we can buy our own storage units. These things are supposed to be plug and play, how long can it take to test them?

Or is TW messing around trying to figure out how to lock us out (or selectively enable only specific users) and only get more storage by going thru them so they can charge a unending monthly charge for this feature?

A lot of TW systems have SARA which has enabled the eSATA ports. I don't think that TW has been messing around - it just appears that they haven't figured out how to really market these drives, or concluded that it is worth promoting. They have a lot of other promotional irons in the fire (On-Demand, Digital Phone, etc) and apparently don't want to dilute their efforts. Also there are some downsides from a support standpoint and it may be that the additional "hassle" (to them) just isn't worth it.

A lot of TW systems have SARA which has enabled the eSATA ports. I don't think that TW has been messing around - it just appears that they haven't figured out how to really market these drives.
Bingo.

or concluded that it is worth promoting.
BINGO.

They have a lot of other promotional irons in the fire (On-Demand, Digital Phone, etc) and apparently don't want to dilute their efforts. Also there are some downsides from a support standpoint and it may be that the additional "hassle" (to them) just isn't worth it.
BINGO!!

A lot of TW systems have SARA which has enabled the eSATA ports. I don't think that TW has been messing around - it just appears that they haven't figured out how to really market these drives, or concluded that it is worth promoting. They have a lot of other promotional irons in the fire (On-Demand, Digital Phone, etc) and apparently don't want to dilute their efforts. Also there are some downsides from a support standpoint and it may be that the additional "hassle" (to them) just isn't worth it.

Then why don't they just switch everyone on their system to SARA software and let the users do their own storage instead of blocking everyone with Passport from doing something. All they are doing is demonstrating their inability to make a decision.

Then why don't they just switch everyone on their system to SARA software ...

All they are doing is demonstrating their inability to make a decision. How can they "switch everyone to SARA" given "their inability to make a decision" ?? Wouldn't doing what you suggest require them to make a decision, which you feel they're unable to do ?? :D

How can they "switch everyone to SARA" given "their inability to make a decision" ?? Wouldn't doing what you suggest require them to make a decision, which you feel they're unable to do ?? :D
You are probably right, maybe I am expecting too much. I am sure it is more complicated than just switching everyone over. Once you start a few thousand folks in a SD, KC, or Dayton down the road, it may be hard to back up and do-over. But my point is they need to do something since people are starting to notice and complain. Either give me a way to add storage like the creator intended or give me a second 8300 at no charge or whatever......

Either give me a way to add storage like the creator intended or give me a second 8300 at no charge or whatever......

What do you mean "like the creator intended"? Do you think that GOD intended that you have more storage? Or that the creator of the program intended that you record and store it forever (I think NOT)?

At least you now seem to understand that switching a system's OS is a significant task.

I suspect that another factor (for cold feet on the external drive) may be the announcement of the following product:

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/customers/images%5Fsubscriber/g1551a.pdf

Which allows the user to archive unlimited amounts of programs on DVD media (note programs are still encoded and can only be played back on that unit).

I read the info on the device (looks sweet!), but also noticed that it may only work with the SARA system (info on the IPG associated with the unit has the look and feel of the SARA system - paraphrased from the brochure).

Use on the PASSPORT system may be much more limited!

What do you mean "like the creator intended"? Do you think that GOD intended that you have more storage? Or that the creator of the program intended that you record and store it forever (I think NOT)

My God is good and wants me to be able to store more than 20 hours of HD content. SA wants me to have more storage since they put the connector on the back of the box and Maxtor wants me to buy a drive to plug into that connector. Only TW (and Passport) seem to be blocking me from my objective.

At least you now seem to understand that switching a system's OS is a significant task.

I would gladly bring my Passport 8300 into their office to exchange it for a SARA 8300 that can store more. <g> Whether Passport to SARA requires lots more changes for TW is an issue. I gather that the program guide might be a part of the equation as well. Whether they could have a mix of Passport and SARA devices on one system is something others would have to address.

I suspect that another factor (for cold feet on the external drive) may be the announcement of the following product: Which allows the user to archive unlimited amounts of programs on DVD media (note programs are still encoded and can only be played back on that unit).

I'd be willing to pay a bit more for this box than for my 8300, but as humdinger70 mentioned, it appears that the new box needs SARA also - so those of us with Passport may be out of luck. It would also be interesting to see what this copy protection scheme really means. Archiving would be cool, but portability to other DVD units would be super. Any idea how the multi-room stuff works? Would you have to have network cabling between rooms and another similar unit at the other end to play content?

My God is good and wants me to be able to store more than 20 hours of HD content. SA wants me to have more storage since they put the connector on the back of the box and Maxtor wants me to buy a drive to plug into that connector. Only TW (and Passport) seem to be blocking me from my objective.
I see :rolleyes:

Whether they could have a mix of Passport and SARA devices on one system is something others would have to address.
Mix is not possible, and changing from one to another is just not practical. :(

I'd be willing to pay a bit more for this box than for my 8300, but as humdinger70 mentioned, it appears that the new box needs SARA also - so those of us with Passport may be out of luck.
Not if the Passport based systems have software written for it (as they did for the 800/8300). ;)

It would also be interesting to see what this copy protection scheme really means. Archiving would be cool, but portability to other DVD units would be super.
As there is not much info available on the MCP-100 all I can give you is some conjecture. For SD programming that has no copy protection flags (such as broadcast TV) the unit would record DVDs that could be played on other devices. For all HD programming the data would be recorded in a proprietary format, only playable on other, similar devices. For HD programming with "Copy Never" flags, the recorded data would be encoded so that it would only play on that specific device (which, by the way, is what happens with the external Hard Drive). As I say , this is conjecture. Perhaps Veggas, or someone else has a better handle on this.

Any idea how the multi-room stuff works? Would you have to have network cabling between rooms and another similar unit at the other end to play content?
Yeah, it uses the existing cabling in the house. The cable entry into the house goes right to the MR box. That box then feeds the rest of the house. The MR box outputs the normal cable spectrum plus three additional signals, one for each receiving STB. The receiving STBs can either tune one of the normal cable channels or can tune it's MR channel. That channel will contain the program from the DVR HD and the receiving STB will send signals back to the main MR. Apparently the MR aspects of the system do not work with HD (though the main MR unit can handle HD, feed HD to its local set, and downconvert HD programs to feed to the remote STBs. :)

TWC is a joke. They should put a chapter in every business book about monopolies and for excercises, they can have students call TWC to see how they handle questions and complaints.

I've just been told that our existing problems with digital phone (long distance callers get 'number not in service' message), ongoing intermittant for past 4 months, is our responsibility to fix. Its not their responsibility to ensure that other carriers will route calls through the TWC network. Evidently, from discussions with multiple tier 3 support people, this is a common and fairly widespread occurrence. Other carriers are evidently slacking in updating their networks with correct routing, when TWC is destination network. Consequently, people calling long distance to my number are intermittently getting this "number not in service" message. I've complained numerous times and been told multiple stories.

I am forced to switch phone service. Given the run around on the 8300 firmware, the hassles and wait every time I call them...we're making a clean break and switching our overpriced, $160 per month cable/internet/phone services elsewhere.

Anyone contemplating TWC, buyer beware.

dmcdayton,

It would be useful to the rest of us if you put your location in your profile (or are we to assume that it is Dayton, OH from your "name").

I for one, have the complete TW package in Rochester, NY and I, and several other people I know here are completely satisfied with TW and their Digital Phone.

I've always found TW here to be very responsive in customer service and based on recent experience with other companies have found TW superior to any other company that I have dealt with.

But, from many posters on the AVSForum and elsewhere, the quality of customer service varies greatly from area to area. From that standpoint I'm lucky to live in upstate New York. :)

I for one, have the complete TW package in Rochester, NY and I, and several other people I know here are completely satisfied with TW and their Digital Phone.

I've always found TW here to be very responsive in customer service and based on recent experience with other companies have found TW superior to any other company that I have dealt with.

But, from many posters on the AVSForum and elsewhere, the quality of customer service varies greatly from area to area. From that standpoint I'm lucky to live in upstate New York. :)

I too have the whole package (8300HD DVR, Internet service, Digital phone) in Raleigh, NC. When I first got the digital phone, I had a problem with the phone service and Internet service using their "combo" modem. My Internet speed was cut in half and the phone service was intermittent. TWC was very responsive to my problem. They replaced the combo modem with two modems, one for the internet service and the other for the phone. They replaced all of the cabling in my house and buried a new underground line. All of this eventually fixed my problems. During all of this, TWC had a technician sent out at least three times. I can say that TWC certainly did their part to resolve my issues. Maybe their response varies depending on where you live, but in Raleigh, NC, I have been very satisfied with their service.

Yes service in Dayton Ohio. Like you, I've enjoyed good service for many years. My complaints lie not with their on-site service nor their personnel. This is (as I've been told by TWC itself) a "systems" issue with their phone service. There's nothing to fix at my home, in their switches, etc. The problem lies strictly with incoming IP packets from other carriers: they don't take the time to change all their servers to route "my phone number" to TWC...a sin of omission if you will. TWC says its my responsiblity to work with every carrier whose causing the problem to get it resolved, not them because those carriers won't talk with them. That is total BS

Anything less than 100% success rate in receiving incoming calls is unacceptable. For TWC to view it as anything less reveals what I consider an unacceptable approach to their market.

As for the 8300, I've been told so many stories, I realize now they just don't care. For every 1 customer who's unhappy, there are 10 new subscribers that aren't going to make the effort to go elsewhere.


Now, to turn this around, can you say for 100% that everyone who's called your TWC phone number has gotten through?

Now, to turn this around, can you say for 100% that everyone who's called your TWC phone number has gotten through?

I have had similar phone problems - with my previous local phone carrier. I got the "run-around" that you described from them. I also did have that problem ONCE since switching to TW digital phone. But that was better than a year ago. We've got 3 kids that live out of town and hear from them and other relatives often.

All-in-all, I've have better phone service (quality, reliability, etc.) from TW than our local phone carrier (Frontier).

Now, to turn this around, can you say for 100% that everyone who's called your TWC phone number has gotten through?
No, can't say with 100% certainty. I haven't had anyone say that they couldn't get through to me but you never know. I did keep my old BellSouth phone number...don't know if this helps or hurts, but no problems (that I am aware of) so far.

SunRocket is 1/3 the price per month ($199 for 15 months with two numbers and two phones) of the Time Warner phone service, and nothing I have seen suggests that SunRocket isn't actually a better provider.

I've got the same old problem with my 8300HD. i moved from charlotte to shelby, nc and hoped the software would be different over here. I'm running hdmi to a panasonic plasma and the box will only do 2 channel sound when using hdmi (i'm using optical out to my receiver). I know from reading earlier in this thread that this is a known problem but TWC seems in no hurry to fix this as I've had the 8300 almost a year now!

I called scientific atlanta today and they said the "audio digital out" option could be added to the settings with a firmware update and they would escalate my complaint but I don't expect anything to change. The last time I emailed TWC about this they wrote back and said it wasn't a priority?!?! Unbelievable, I'm thinking of going satellite or something now. Just wanted to vent and say if you're having this problem as well call scientific atlanta and complain (call twc as well). Maybe one day they'll fix this annoying problem...

I've got the same old problem with my 8300HD. i moved from charlotte to shelby, nc and hoped the software would be different over here. I'm running hdmi to a panasonic plasma and the box will only do 2 channel sound when using hdmi (i'm using optical out to my receiver). I know from reading earlier in this thread that this is a known problem but TWC seems in no hurry to fix this as I've had the 8300 almost a year now!

I called scientific atlanta today and they said the "audio digital out" option could be added to the settings with a firmware update and they would escalate my complaint but I don't expect anything to change. The last time I emailed TWC about this they wrote back and said it wasn't a priority?!?! Unbelievable, I'm thinking of going satellite or something now. Just wanted to vent and say if you're having this problem as well call scientific atlanta and complain (call twc as well). Maybe one day they'll fix this annoying problem...
This problem is bigger than Scientific Atlanta. This is an HDMI problem. Once again, the buying public takes it where the sun don't shine.

This problem is bigger than Scientific Atlanta. This is an HDMI problem. Once again, the buying public takes it where the sun don't shine.

This PARTICULAR problem is a cable company problem PERIOD! SA has a fix, has it available to their customers (cable companies) and it is the cable companies that have not rolled it out.

Yes, there are a slew of HDMI/HDCP problems, that are difficult to pin down - but providing an overide in the 8300 to enable the digital audio output - no matter what the interface between the display and the 8300 says, is a SA/cable company issue. And SA claims that the fix is available. In fact, many have reported the fix is in place.

This PARTICULAR problem is a cable company problem PERIOD! SA has a fix, has it available to their customers (cable companies) and it is the cable companies that have not rolled it out.

Yes, there are a slew of HDMI/HDCP problems, that are difficult to pin down - but providing an overide in the 8300 to enable the digital audio output - no matter what the interface between the display and the 8300 says, is a SA/cable company issue. And SA claims that the fix is available. In fact, many have reported the fix is in place.
OK. :o

This PARTICULAR problem is a cable company problem PERIOD! SA has a fix, has it available to their customers (cable companies) and it is the cable companies that have not rolled it out.

Yes, there are a slew of HDMI/HDCP problems, that are difficult to pin down - but providing an overide in the 8300 to enable the digital audio output - no matter what the interface between the display and the 8300 says, is a SA/cable company issue. And SA claims that the fix is available. In fact, many have reported the fix is in place.

I think it's a PASSPORT/cable company issue, not an SA issue.

I think it's a PASSPORT/cable company issue, not an SA issue.

It depends... SA needs provide the software developers (The Passport folks) either with a "working" driver or documentation with the specifics on how to implement the the driver to the HDMI API.

Some times the device manufacturer also provide toolkits to the software developers to generate the necessary device specific code when using high level programing languages such as C.

It is almost a given in the software developer's world that the documentation/toolkits provided by the manufacturers have errors or are not up-to-date with the hardware implementation at hand. In my day... I'm an old fart... I attended many a meeting with software/hardware developers to correct these discrepancies.

In any case, TWC should be addressing these issues with whomever is at fault on behalf of its costumers

It depends... SA needs provide the software developers (The Passport folks) either with a "working" driver or documentation with the specifics on how to implement the the driver to the HDMI API.

Some times the device manufacturer also provide toolkits to the software developers to generate the necessary device specific code when using high level programing languages such as C.

It is almost a given in the software developer's world that the documentation/toolkits provided by the manufacturers have errors or are not up-to-date with the hardware implementation at hand. In my day... I'm an old fart... I attended many a meeting with software/hardware developers to correct these discrepancies.

In any case, TWC should be addressing these issues with whomever is at fault on behalf of its costumers
Outside of our little world here, and others like it on other forums, there is no heat being generated. And what heat there is is not being felt by the cableco's, much less by the cable equipment manufacturers. The manufacturers are insulated/isolated from us. And the overwhelming majority of cable company customers are completely ingnorant, and I mean that in the kindest and most innocent connotation of the word. Rarely do the cableco's customers have any facts and even more rarely do the cableco's get taken to task by their customers.

I imagine most of us here have had contact with tech people at our providers. Some of us may have even reached tech supervisors and managers; I have. How incredibly frustrating and difficult it was to do so. I guarentee you that, on my small cable system, I was the ONLY one asking about the SATA port on the rear. To the supervsor's credit, he did check with Pioneer (?) and report back that a firmware upgrade to activate the SATA ports would be "installed" 12/15 - 12/31.

Until the cableco's and their equipment suppliers can be held accountable, things will improve slowly and sporadically, and classic monopoly dynamics will remain in play.

I agree with that and don't know what else I can do. I called Twc and then SA and had my complaint escalated at both companies. It seems like the consumer has no way to get these things fixed and just has to "live with it" until someone finally gets things fixed. It's frustrating to say the least....

I agree with that and don't know what else I can do. I called Twc and then SA and had my complaint escalated at both companies. It seems like the consumer has no way to get these things fixed and just has to "live with it" until someone finally gets things fixed. It's frustrating to say the least....
My strategy, while not usually immediately successful, eventually produces the desired results. I devote the time and energy to being the most PERSISTENT and PLEASANT complainer on the planet. I usually try the "official" support routes, which never works and then I go to the company's website (or SEC filings if they are publicly traded) to find contact info for the president or other high muckety-muck. Again, I explain my problem, what steps I've taken to get it addressed within the regular channels and my frustration with being unable to get satisfaction. I am never sarcastic, angry or bitter - nothing that would cause the reader to mutter a "screw you" and toss it. This strategy has almost always resulted in . . results.

If you haven't already done this, give it a try. Be persistent and nice 'em to death!

To the supervsor's credit, he did check with Pioneer (?) and report back that a firmware upgrade to activate the SATA ports would be "installed" 12/15 - 12/31.
FYI, Pioneer provides the Passport operating system which our box runs on.

Good news for you, assuming they actually push the fix out to you on a timely basis! :-)

If it is released in December, it seems like it might hit my local TWC franchise sometime around 2008, based on their history!

Scott

FYI, Pioneer provides the Passport operating system which our box runs on.
Actually, it's Aptiv Digital (http://www.pioneerdigital.com/). :)

Good news for you, assuming they actually push the fix out to you on a timely basis! :-)
I'll be watching for it and will definitely post if/when it occurs.

FYI, Pioneer provides the Passport operating system which our box runs on.

the Passport division been splintered off into Aptiv Digital.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA6261079.html

Actually, it's Aptiv Digital (http://www.pioneerdigital.com/). :)

dammit I was typing the same thing at the same time!

At least I didn't link to the same page. :rolleyes:

dammit I was typing the same thing at the same time!

At least I didn't link to the same page. :rolleyes:
:)

My strategy, while not usually immediately successful, eventually produces the desired results. I devote the time and energy to being the most PERSISTENT and PLEASANT complainer on the planet. I usually try the "official" support routes, which never works and then I go to the company's website (or SEC filings if they are publicly traded) to find contact info for the president or other high muckety-muck. Again, I explain my problem, what steps I've taken to get it addressed within the regular channels and my frustration with being unable to get satisfaction. I am never sarcastic, angry or bitter - nothing that would cause the reader to mutter a "screw you" and toss it. This strategy has almost always resulted in . . results.

If you haven't already done this, give it a try. Be persistent and nice 'em to death!

I don't have the time to do it, but if someone could start to draft a nice letter using this forum as a source for content and outlining all our grievances we might get some results. The resulting document which would outline our requests to TWC (in order of importance) would them be posted in http://www.**************.com for all of us to sign.

If someone in this forum would manage this process and if we can identify whom to address this document to in TWC; we "might" get some results. Our demands will only be validated if we have a decent number of signers of this petition. The person in charge of the process will need to advertise this petition in other related threads to gather as many signatures as possible. This method worked for a group of us in another forum when we could not get Toshiba to responds to some updates for our faulty PDA.

We can get started by creating a list with all our demands (fixes and features we want added) and we can vote to select which ones should be on the top of the list. HDMI and 5.1 DD are at the top of my list followed by a external drive and working firewire ports.

I'm wondering if there's an issue between the 1.8.1xx series that most people have and the 2.5.027 (expermimental? beta?) version that others (like me) have.

Anyone care to confirm/deny?

I don't have the time to do it, but if someone could start to draft a nice letter using this forum as a source for content and outlining all our grievances we might get some results. The resulting document which would outline our requests to TWC (in order of importance) would them be posted for all of us to sign.

If someone in this forum would manage this process and if we can identify whom to address this document to in TWC; we "might" get some results. Our demands will only be validated if we have a decent number of signers of this petition. The person in charge of the process will need to advertise this petition in other related threads to gather as many signatures as possible. This method worked for a group of us in another forum when we could not get Toshiba to responds to some updates for our faulty PDA.

We can get started by creating a list with all our demands (fixes and features we want added) and we can vote to select which ones should be on the top of the list. HDMI and 5.1 DD are at the top of my list followed by a external drive and working firewire ports.

I'm wondering if 20 or 30 well placed e-mails might get results. I know politicians are often more swayed by a few calls from constituients than a petition. I think if we had a real person at SA, a real person at Passport, and the right person at TW corporate, we'd begin to zero in on what can be done and who isn't doing it. I've tried e-mailing PR folks at these places when I see an address, but I doubt that they are the right folks. Do any of the other participants know the folks with the "right stuff"?

If we are voting, I want an external drive and 5.1DD to stay selected.

I'm wondering if there's an issue between the 1.8.1xx series that most people have and the 2.5.027 (expermimental? beta?) version that others (like me) have.

Anyone care to confirm/deny? Huh ??

Huh ??
Ahh, I see the battle lines are being drawn. On one side we have the 1.8.1xxistas and on the other the 2.5.027istas.

:D

I'm wondering if 20 or 30 well placed e-mails might get results. I know politicians are often more swayed by a few calls from constituients than a petition. I think if we had a real person at SA, a real person at Passport, and the right person at TW corporate, we'd begin to zero in on what can be done and who isn't doing it. I've tried e-mailing PR folks at these places when I see an address, but I doubt that they are the right folks. Do any of the other participants know the folks with the "right stuff"?

If we are voting, I want an external drive and 5.1DD to stay selected.

************** is a huge waste of time IMO. It has no way of accurately counting and I don't think it has ever worked.

Email would be more effective since it would overwhelm somebody's inbox and get their attention.

I'd just like an external drive. I use my harmony 880 to activate and deactivate 5.1 whenever I go to the receiver audio and back to HDMI. :D

************** is a huge waste of time IMO. It has no way of accurately counting and I don't think it has ever worked. :D

Did you look at the results from some of the petitions submitted? Did you ever signed one of these petitions? Which petition that you signed that was submitted and that had a significant number of signers failed? Of course I'm assuming that the complain had merits and that the expected resolution from the vendor was "reasonable". Please specify.

An example you can track, is the recent response from a Sr. Director of Web TV Customer Service which recently responded to WebTV complaints brought to them via this method.

I only suggest ************** because it makes the petition process of collecting the signatures simple. The service is free and the signatures are somewhat "validated". All we have to do is point the TWC customers that have similar complains to the drafted petition. Once enough signatures are collected the petition is submitted to the identified party using the appropiate channels. The more signatures collected... the more weight the complain will have. Try doing that simple task using this forum.

Floading the inboxes of executives or of the public relations offices of any corporations with emails is inappropiate and unproffesional. It does not project an intelligent and unified front. Having a coherent and reasonable request backed with a suffient number signatures from customers united to resolve a common issue... IMO, has better chances.

I'm a TWC NY subscriber... this morning I woke up to a new version of Passport Echo (1.8.112) I have yet to test anything, but the Audio Digital Out option is now in the "More Settings" menu. woo hoo. What other new features (or bugs) should I be looking for? I was updated from .103 to .112.

A few people here in Dayton OH have had issues with DD dropping out. They say they need to reboot the boxes to get it back. I had one, maybe two, instances of audio issues but can't say if it's box-related to channel-related. I don't recall it happening since either...

One person, and I think one other "confirmed" seeing it, said that they think the quick-rewind the box does after fast-forwarding and then hitting play (skipping commercials) acts different depending on if you are in 2x FF or 3x FF and so on.

One person, and I think one other "confirmed" seeing it, said that they think the quick-rewind the box does after fast-forwarding and then hitting play (skipping commercials) acts different depending on if you are in 2x FF or 3x FF and so on.

I always thought that. It compensates for the faster forwarding speed and your slower reaction time by jumping back in increasingly larger increments.

I'm a TWC NY subscriber... this morning I woke up to a new version of Passport Echo (1.8.112) I have yet to test anything, but the Audio Digital Out option is now in the "More Settings" menu. woo hoo. What other new features (or bugs) should I be looking for? I was updated from .103 to .112.
I'm in NYC also and recieved the same new firmware.

One (minor) bugfix that I noticed is that paging through the guide with the left and right arrows works as it used to -- when you hold it down, the guide dims and you see it zipping through the hours. In .103, this feature was broken -- you didn't see the guide moving when you held the button down; it just jumped to the random new time that you happened to wind up at. Same thing when using the Page +/- button on the remote to page through channels in the guide.

Scott

A few people here in Dayton OH have had issues with DD dropping out. They say they need to reboot the boxes to get it back. I had one, maybe two, instances of audio issues but can't say if it's box-related to channel-related. I don't recall it happening since either...


I live in NY (Manhattan) and have the DD issue. Most of the time it seems fine, but then every so often it switches to PCM for no apparent reason and I need to reboot the 8300HD box to get DD back. Anyone have any idea if there is a way to prevent this??? I just got a new HT and I was worried it was an issue with my Onkyo receiver or something more serious...

I live in NY (Manhattan) and have the DD issue. Most of the time it seems fine, but then every so often it switches to PCM for no apparent reason and I need to reboot the 8300HD box to get DD back. Anyone have any idea if there is a way to prevent this??? I just got a new HT and I was worried it was an issue with my Onkyo receiver or something more serious...

I have the exact same issue (.111 code on an 8300SD in Cary, NC), but I don't have to reboot the box to fix it. I can go into the More Settings screen, change Digital Audio Out to 2-Channel Only, change it back to Dolby Digital, and my Yamaha receiver's indicator changes from PCM back to DD.

One thing that seems to cause it to happen in the first place is tuning to Channel 0, the TV Guide channel. This is the only analog channel left in TWC's lineup down here. If you go from Channel 0 back to one of the digital channels, the 8300 doesn't always switch back to DD unless you do the trick in the settings menu.

After NYC Bhoy mentioned it toggling to PCM mode, I realized that's exactly what mine did so it wasn't likely a station issue after all. And funny thing is, I did the same thing you did, broberds. I went into the menu, changed it off of DD to something else, then back to DD and it works fine.

I'm a TWC NY subscriber... this morning I woke up to a new version of Passport Echo (1.8.112) I have yet to test anything, but the Audio Digital Out option is now in the "More Settings" menu. woo hoo. What other new features (or bugs) should I be looking for? I was updated from .103 to .112.


You can look forward to this disaster if you are using the HDMI output.

Youre output options just got scuttled to 1080i ONLY......

This sux for watching SD channels as the SA8300's upconverter is not up to the task and we are a lot better off at 480i/p for these channels.

The other important part to this is most Plasmas smart picture modes for these 4:3 SD channels will no longer work as a 1080i signal is output as FULL.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

TWC needs to fix this ASAP or give me a package where i dont have to pay for all these SD channels which i cant watch!!!!

This whole 1080i only thing hasn't happened to me. I have two 8300 - one is an older version which just got the software upgrade and the other is a newer version. I can select multiple output options on both via HDMI. Weird though.

You can look forward to this disaster if you are using the HDMI output.

Youre output options just got scuttled to 1080i ONLY......

This sux for watching SD channels as the SA8300's upconverter is not up to the task and we are a lot better off at 480i/p for these channels.

The other important part to this is most Plasmas smart picture modes for these 4:3 SD channels will no longer work as a 1080i signal is output as FULL.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

TWC needs to fix this ASAP or give me a package where i dont have to pay for all these SD channels which i cant watch!!!!

I don't have this problem. My SD channels work using 480i/p and my HD channels work 1080i. In my setting I have selected "all" output formats.

Now I get sound via HDMI when I select HDMI in the 8300 setting and I set my Panasonic LCD TV to either Digital sound or Auto. These settings did not work with Passport .103 while using the HDMI cable only.

When I set the 8300 Audio Digital Out to Dolby Digital or Two Channel Only, the speakers of my TV go off (as I expected). In order to use these two setting and still get sound of the TV speakers, I have to set my TV audio settings to Analog. (My TV also has analog RCA inputs associated with the HDMI connector)

I just started testing this morning using my Onkyo SR-600 receiver. No matter what Audio setting I select in 8300 the receiver remains in DD Pro Logic II. I'm here waiting for an HD program witn DD 5.1 sound to see if some other DD LEDs light up automatically in my receiver. It could also be that I don't have an intelligent enough receiver. I have to wait for the Jets game today to see if my receiver adjusts. Oh, the pain... will be magnified ten fold... if I can watch the Jets game in HD and DD 5.1 sound.

tamanaco,

I have the same receiver hooked up to my 8300 in the living room via coaxial. The 8300 is connected via HDMI/DVI to my display. The Onkyo is def smart enough to kick into DD5.1 when it can and I keep the 8300 on Dolby Digital. The annoying part (and this has gotten better lately) is that sometimes the 8300 only passes DPLII when it should be passing 5.1. The quick fix is to go to the Digital Audio setting and temporarily change it to HDMI and then back to Dolby Digital and all is well.

I know your connection is different but the Onkyo is smart enough to switch to DD5.1 when it can. If there is a problem it's with the 8300.

TWC San Diego just upgraded firmware again, from 2.5.027 to 2.5.039. This makes the 3rd upgrade in two and half months, since the disasterous "upgrade" to the hideously bug-ridden 2.5.022 on 27 September.

So far, I haven't noticed any difference except that the guide search function on the 8000HD has now become lightning fast. When you push the red button while in the guide, it goes into search mode, first displaying a list of all known future episodes of the program which had been selected on the grid when you pressed the button. This first step used to take several seconds on the 8000HD--no doubt it was faster on the 8300HD. Now it's instantaneous. After you select an initial letter, locating all the programs which begin with that letter (a much bigger search) seems faster, taking less than a second to several seconds, depending upon the size of the generated list. (Once it made the list in the previous software, marching through it by selecting more letters was always quick). They must be organizing the guide list much more efficiently.

There may be more immediately noticeable fixes on the 8300HD, particularly the still-buggy "Stereo/5.1/HDMI" setup option (it apparently reverts to "HDMI" whenever the television is turned off and back on). I'm sure that holl_ands will give us the 411 on that front :).

Here's hoping that they fixed numerous bugs without adding any :D.

Without venturing into the plasma/lcd threads, I'm hoping someone can help with this:

I was asked which output resolutions to use with a Panasonic TH-50PX50U. It's native resolution is 1366 x 768. The set-top is the 8300HD. I don't know if you should send it 1080i and let the TV's scalar down-rez it or send it 720p and have the TV up-rez it to 768p.

The manual says, when using HDMI, to send them all. When using component, it says 720p will be up-converted to 1080i.

Without venturing into the plasma/lcd threads, I'm hoping someone can help with this:

I was asked which output resolutions to use with a Panasonic TH-50PX50U. It's native resolution is 1366 x 768. The set-top is the 8300HD. I don't know if you should send it 1080i and let the TV's scalar down-rez it or send it 720p and have the TV up-rez it to 768p.

The manual says, when using HDMI, to send them all. When using component, it says 720p will be up-converted to 1080i.

I would set the 8300HD to pass all the resolutions and let the Monitor do the scaling especially given that the plasma will have to scale anything that it gets sent due to its 'non 1:1' pixel arrangement with any HD mode. I would want to avoid multiple scaling operations. YMMV.

I, just for the heck of it, hooked up my HDMI cable from the SA 8300 HD to my Samsung TXP3064W TV today and it actually worked. However the diagnostic screen still shows that "HDMI is blocked" and "auth failed"! I think I am beating a dead horse here. Back to component again..LOL.

TWC San Diego just upgraded firmware again, from 2.5.027 to 2.5.039. This makes the 3rd upgrade in two and half months, since the disasterous "upgrade" to the hideously bug-ridden 2.5.022 on 27 September.

There may be more immediately noticeable fixes on the 8300HD, particularly the still-buggy "Stereo/5.1/HDMI" setup option (it apparently reverts to "HDMI" whenever the television is turned off and back on). I'm sure that holl_ands will give us the 411 on that front :).

Here's hoping that they fixed numerous bugs without adding any :D.

With respect to the new SETTINGS/MORE SETTINGS/DIGITAL AUDIO menu, there are three specific ways I know which would erroneously force the SA8300HD to PCM STEREO, instead of restoring it to the selected DOLBY DIGITAL (or HDMI) mode.

1. Manually enter the Extended Diagnostic mode on the SA8300HD.
The first time I tried it this morning, the "DING" sound forced an erroneous change to PCM STEREO mode and did not restore the previous DOLBY DIGITAL setting.....not a very favorable beginning.... However, over the course of the day, I cycled the SA8300HD "power" OFF and back ON several times. Each time I entered Extended Diagnostic mode to generate the "DING" sound, I observed that my Surround Receiver was momentarily set to PCM STEREO mode and then correctly reverted to DOLBY DIGITAL.

2. Schedule a REMINDER TIMER and wait for the "DING" sound that accompanies the visual alert box.
Now, when the "DING" sound occurs, my Surround Receiver momentarily changes to PCM STEREO and correctly reverts to DOLBY DIGITAL.

3. Schedule too many recording events and wait for the "DING" sound that accompanies the visual alert box.
Now, the "DING" sound has been completely suppressed....problem solved.

It appears that the unexpected change to PCM STEREO from the selected DOLBY DIGITAL or HDMI mode may have been fixed.
However, it will take several days of listening to determine if there are any other sporadic events that might have also been causing this problem....just to make sure....

=================================================
I also checked PACE DC-550P....no new version...yet....
The last update resulted in HUGE differences in PCM STEREO sound levels when changing between analog and digital channels.

I live in Queens, New York and have an issue with Passport. I have the Sa8300HD connected to a Toshiba 30" Hd tube TV. After reading the instructions included in the
SA manual I tried connecting my VCR to #2 outputs on the settop. The manual said I
should be able to list my recorded shows and then go to COPY TO VCR, the problem
is there is no such command. Is this unique to Passport or is the box defective?

The manual said... What manual ?? Many TWC divisions are handing out the SA manual with the boxes, which they probably shouldn't be. It refers to SARA software and not Passport.

Does this same manual talk about a "setup wizard" ??

What manual ?? Many TWC divisions are handing out the SA manual with the boxes, which they probably shouldn't be. It refers to SARA software and not Passport.

Does this same manual talk about a "setup wizard" ??
Here is the link to the PASSPORT ECHO manual that describes menu operations:
http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp
It's a little out of date, so a few new functions are missing...

Here is the TWC link to the SA8000HD User Guide, which describes hardware connections
and carefully avoids any discussion re menu operations:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/FAQ/TWCFAQCategories.ashx?CatID=543&MarketID=5
[Note that page 16 incorrectly describes the SARA method for changing screen type.]
The Answers On Demand link on the left duplicates information found on the interactive TWC AoD channel.

==========================================
The fol. link is an extensive collection of info re PVRs using the SARA operating system:
http://www.cox.com/support/sandiego/digitalcable/dvr/default.asp
The User Guide link on the right accesses the various SARA manuals (like Getting Starting) that are highly recommended
reading for PASSPORT ECHO users....many of the functions are similiar if not exactly the same.

Yes, I'm aware of that manual. It actually mentions nothing about hookups/connections, as I recall.

My local TWC, and I imagine others, are handing out SA's "Getting Started...." manual with the boxes and other than showing and explaining the connections on the back and maybe the buttons on the front, most of what it talks about is SARA-software specific.

I live in Queens, New York and have an issue with Passport. I have the Sa8300HD connected to a Toshiba 30" Hd tube TV. After reading the instructions included in the
SA manual I tried connecting my VCR to #2 outputs on the settop. The manual said I
should be able to list my recorded shows and then go to COPY TO VCR, the problem
is there is no such command. Is this unique to Passport or is the box defective?


no it's not there with Passport, however you don't need it. The 8300 outputs the signal all the time so just connect the VCR and record the show as it plays.

Everyone mentions that with the 8300hd one should output 480ip/720p/1080i unconverted. I have done testing on my setup and I can't tell any difference between 720p and 1080i for ABC/ESPN 720p channels or CBS/HBO/etc 1080i channels. However, my digital 480p channels come in MUCH better using the 1080i output than either 480 or 720p. So, therefore, I have the 8300hd output everything as 1080i. It baffles me since, you would think a 768p plasma would work best with 720p coming from the 8300hd.

That being said, I'm amazed how good my SD digital channels are (the analog SD still look like crap).


PS. I use component output to my plasma. The hdmi input is being saved for an upcoming Blueray/PS3.

Raleigh TWC

I just got a 8300hd and I was wondering if there is any software package like dvarchive that will pull the shows off the DVR.

Sorry if this the wrong place to ask this.

I just got a 8300hd and I was wondering if there is any software package like dvarchive that will pull the shows off the DVR.

Sorry if this the wrong place to ask this.

I think someone mentioned doing this recently with an active Firewire port. Search this thread for Firewire and see what you come up with.

I live in Queens, New York and have an issue with Passport. I have the Sa8300HD connected to a Toshiba 30" Hd tube TV. After reading the instructions included in the
SA manual I tried connecting my VCR to #2 outputs on the settop. The manual said I
should be able to list my recorded shows and then go to COPY TO VCR, the problem
is there is no such command. Is this unique to Passport or is the box defective?Just to clear up some confusion, I believe that holl_ands, when he spoke of some TWC offices distributing copies of the SARA manual with the box, was speaking to this problem. SARA has a "COPY TO VCR" function--Passport Echo does not.

The local TWC provider for the Queens area has a manual for Passport Echo here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/50/Content%20Management/Products%20And%20Services/documents/DVRinstall7x7p.pdf). It's not very comprehensive, but it's a decent quick-reference card. The manual for Passport Echo V1.6 that holl_and linked to (here (http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp)) is a bit more complete, but a tad out of date.

Note that Pioneer Broadband doesn't have anything to do with the hardware--Passport Echo also runs on Motorola STBs. These manuals therefore don't describe connections.

Yes, this PDF, http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf, is only partly useful for people who's boxes use Passport.

Note that there is also a "Tips and Tricks" post in this thread (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722)), though it hasn't been updated recently. It contains some useful information not in any of the manuals.

Not sure how interesting this is here but Daryl L found two new channels for TWCNC mentioned in the Raleigh HDTV thread. Channels 591 and 592 are now interactive. The first being a local news, weather, cinema times and info channel. You use the cursor to select info from various tabs. Text based info only although the menu works similar to the VOD channels.

592 is more interesting as it provides 3 Passport interactive card games including video poker and solitaire. Use the cursor to select a deck and the select to hold cards etc. You can also watch the last video channel in the usual PIP guide window as you play. It's a fun ad break filler.

Service menu also includes a new 3 page toggle screen for Channel app info. No updates to Echo however. It's still at 1.8.11.

Is there a way to stretch the guide so that it fits an entire 16:9 screen... this is the only hd box I've ever had that keeps the guide at 4:3 even when it stretches SD material (and on all hd stuff).

I can't stretch the guide unless my 8300HD is connected via S-Video or composite. If it's connected via component or DVI, the guide stays in 4:3 mode. Whether it's the lower quality of S-Video/composite or my TV's stretch function, the guide does NOT look good stretched.

I can't stretch the guide unless my 8300HD is connected via S-Video or composite. If it's connected via component or DVI, the guide stays in 4:3 mode. Whether it's the lower quality of S-Video/composite or my TV's stretch function, the guide does NOT look good stretched.
IMHO, nothing looks good stretched.

It's not about a guide looking good... I seem to be getting a little image retention along the line of the guide (my wife scrolls through it for ages on end)... obviously I'm not going to use an HD box via S or Composite, but stretching the guide would alleviate this problem.

Just thought I'd ask.

It's not about a guide looking good... I seem to be getting a little image retention along the line of the guide (my wife scrolls through it for ages on end)... obviously I'm not going to use an HD box via S or Composite, but stretching the guide would alleviate this problem.

Just thought I'd ask.
Image "retention?"

Image "retention?"

aka "Burn-In"

aka "Burn-In"


actually, pre burn-in. It's not permanent if you nip it in the bud.

Tell her that unless she wants very expensive repairs or replacement costs, do not leave the guide on-screen for "ages on end".

Can anyone suggest a good Logitech Harmony remote, that is not their top of the line, which can control the SA 8300HD well? Thanks.

Is there a way to stretch the guide so that it fits an entire 16:9 screen... this is the only hd box I've ever had that keeps the guide at 4:3 even when it stretches SD material (and on all hd stuff).

I don't use the 8300's stretch, but instead use my TV's zoom so that the entire screen is used (I don't like the black or grey side bars). Doing so also enlarges the guide (except when a HD channel is on before entering the guide).

Been meaning to ask this, and the prior "Guide" question reminded me.

When I turn on my 8300, regardless of channel, HD, SD, etc. the outline of the guide is there, framed in black. Its not burn in, but instead like you've hit guide and all black appears (e.g., L shaped) where the guide would be. All I have to do is change the channel and its gone. It began about a month ago and I thought an eventual cold boot would resolve it. Nope.

I don't plan on messing with it, but I'm simply wondering if anyone else has experienced this odd behavior.

Is the L-shape created by the guide *and* the preview window (instead of being a black square) ?? If so, I've seen that off and on for months....

I started seeing the black guide outline when testing the 1.8.112 release. It will actually time out and go away on its own after 3 or 4 minutes.

It would be helpful that you guys talking about your experiences with "image retention" (or whatever) would tell us what technology set you have (CRT RP, Plasma, etc.). Some technologies (Plasma, for example) are much more prone to this than others (DLP). Maybe you said so "way back when" but it would help the rest of us if you let us know the whole story.

Thanks ;)

Is the L-shape created by the guide *and* the preview window (instead of being a black square) ?? If so, I've seen that off and on for months....
Yes, guide and preview window

I started seeing the black guide outline when testing the 1.8.112 release. It happened with 1.8.103 too.

It would be helpful that you guys talking about your experiences with "image retention" (or whatever) would tell us what technology set you have (CRT RP, Plasma, etc.). Some technologies (Plasma, for example) are much more prone to this than others (DLP). Maybe you said so "way back when" but it would help the rest of us if you let us know the whole story.

Thanks ;)

Sorry.... thought I mentioned it. I have a 1 1/2 month old Pioneer Elite 930 (6th generation plasma).... when the screen is completely white (ie, when a scene is shot against a white backdrop, snow, etc) I can see a VERY, VERY faint pink-ish line where the guide appears... primarily on the left.... if you weren't looking you would never see it... but I constantly look.

By the way... my contrast and brightness settings are WAY low, so I'm taking all the standard precautions.... I'm just a little surprised you can't stretch the guide... I've owned quite a few stbs and a couple of hd cable boxes... all of them show the guide stretched if you have 4:3 set to stretch.

Can anyone suggest a good Logitech Harmony remote, that is not their top of the line, which can control the SA 8300HD well? Thanks.
I have the 676, and it works well. I think (it's been a while) I did have to have the remote learn some of the buttons instead of using the value in the Harmony database, but that was no trouble.

I'm wondering if there's an issue between the 1.8.1xx series that most people have and the 2.5.027 (expermimental? beta?) version that others (like me) have. Anyone care to confirm/deny?I had 1.5.sumthin for over a year and it worked flawlessly, then a few months ago they pushed 2.5.027 on both my DVRs and they're now full of bugs that weren't there with 1.5.x. I've been logging the problems i've been having and i think i've found them all. Just gotta compile them and sort em out. I meant to do it sooner but life got in the way . . . . . .

Without venturing into the plasma/lcd threads, I'm hoping someone can help with this:

I was asked which output resolutions to use with a Panasonic TH-50PX50U. It's native resolution is 1366 x 768. The set-top is the 8300HD. I don't know if you should send it 1080i and let the TV's scalar down-rez it or send it 720p and have the TV up-rez it to 768p.

The manual says, when using HDMI, to send them all. When using component, it says 720p will be up-converted to 1080i.The manual is misprinted there - according to people smarter than myself :-)

I have the 42PX50U and to me 1080i looks sharper/better than 720p. Also, 2.5.027 has enabled 480i passthrough (finally) and the analog SD channels look much better now that the TV is doing the scaling instead of the 8000HD.

So i have 480i and 1080i enabled, and i've disabled 480p and 720p. YMMV, but these two settings are the best for SD and HD to my eyes.

Can anyone suggest a good Logitech Harmony remote, that is not their top of the line, which can control the SA 8300HD well? Thanks.I've been doing a lot of poking around the various forums and i've settled on the Harmony 676. It has better button spacing than the others, and seems to have more buttons than some of the others. I ordered mine from Walmart online (killed CC's price) and will play with it when i get the time.

Right now i'm using a discontinued Radio Shack 15-2116 and it works perfectly for my 8000's, but i want more programmability for all my other stuff and the 676 looks like the best replacement.

Picture of 6-series in a row (http://www.lewishq.com/images/harmony_6XX_comparison.jpg)

I've been doing a lot of poking around the various forums and i've settled on the Harmony 676. It has better button spacing than the others, and seems to have more buttons than some of the others. I ordered mine from Walmart online (killed CC's price) and will play with it when i get the time.

Right now i'm using a discontinued Radio Shack 15-2116 and it works perfectly for my 8000's, but i want more programmability for all my other stuff and the 676 looks like the best replacement.

Picture of 6-series in a row (http://www.lewishq.com/images/harmony_6XX_comparison.jpg)

I ordered the Harmony 659 from Newegg, so I will have to see how that one works for me. Thanks very much for the reply.

Can anyone suggest a good Logitech Harmony remote, that is not their top of the line, which can control the SA 8300HD well? Thanks.
I haven't gotten my hands on it yet, but you should check out the $99 MSRP Logitech Harmony 520:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/US/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=10929
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/dl.cgi?file=harmony/documentation/h520-manual.zip&area=other
http://www.remotecentral.com/ureview/111.htm

Click on "Take a test drive" to install the H520 configuration software.
You can go through the entire setup process without actually owning the device.
Then you can download and install the "test drive" for one of the other, more expensive models (the software controls are pretty much the same).

I didn't find posts on this forum to be very useful re this new unit.
It does not seem to be carried by the major retailers, other than walmart and sears.
I checked walmart.com, it's not only for sale, but also in stock.
For other vendors, do a Google search for "harmony 520".

After much struggling with TWC regarding phone service and inability to get 8300 working with my 4805, I have sort of good news. First, they seem to finally have fixed some of the phone problems and they gave me 3 month credit for my trouble, 2nd, latest Passport upgrade seems to allow DVI/HDMI/DHCP support with my 4805. I say seems because after finally getting it to work yesterday, watching a movie and a TV show over DVI, turning it all off and coming back later in the evening, it failed with same "Your HDTV does not support HDCP..."....very frustrating.

Trying again today, I found a post on another forum that has allowed me to get box and projector working again:

"Their solution is to turn the set top box off first, then turn the HDTV off, then reconnect the HDMI-to-DVI cable, reboot the set top box, then power the HDTV on, and finally power the set top box back on."

So its working again, hopefully service call this Thursday will turn up why its so sensitive.

After much struggling with TWC regarding phone service and inability to get 8300 working with my 4805, I have sort of good news. First, they seem to finally have fixed some of the phone problems and they gave me 3 month credit for my trouble, 2nd, latest Passport upgrade seems to allow DVI/HDMI/DHCP support with my 4805. I say seems because after finally getting it to work yesterday, watching a movie and a TV show over DVI, turning it all off and coming back later in the evening, it failed with same "Your HDTV does not support HDCP..."....very frustrating.

Trying again today, I found a post on another forum that has allowed me to get box and projector working again:

"Their solution is to turn the set top box off first, then turn the HDTV off, then reconnect the HDMI-to-DVI cable, reboot the set top box, then power the HDTV on, and finally power the set top box back on."

So its working again, hopefully service call this Thursday will turn up why its so sensitive.


BTW, I have Harmony SST 659, works fine with 8300 as well as everything else I've got, very happy with it.

If you see the message after power up try simply to boot the 8300 with everything on and hooked up.

I recently got a westinghouse lvm-37w1 and an 8300hd. Ive got the box hooked up to the tv over hdmi to dvi. Everything works great except a minor issue. When the local hd channels are not broadcasting true HD signals, I get the following anomalies at the top of the screen in the 4:3 portion:

http://inexistence.org/westy/twc2.jpg
http://inexistence.org/westy/twc1.jpg

Im using TWC Cincinnati, passport software. I get this in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Its only with the local channels, and its not 100% of the time. Wondering if this is the 8300 or my local providers problem. Is this somthing I should contact my cable provider over?

Thanks

-Davs

I recently got a westinghouse lvm-37w1 and an 8300hd. Ive got the box hooked up to the tv over hdmi to dvi. Everything works great except a minor issue. When the local hd channels are not broadcasting true HD signals, I get the following anomalies at the top of the screen in the 4:3 portion:

http://inexistence.org/westy/twc2.jpg
http://inexistence.org/westy/twc1.jpg

Im using TWC Cincinnati, passport software. I get this in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Its only with the local channels, and its not 100% of the time. Wondering if this is the 8300 or my local providers problem. Is this somthing I should contact my cable provider over?

Thanks

-Davs

I see the same thing on some channels.

I think that is the closed caption information. Someone in one of the SA8_00 threads mentioned it a bit ago as line 49 of the NTSC signal or something similar. I saw it at one time while using some combination of TV type and aspect ratio in the SA8_00HD settings menu. I do not see it anymore, but the aspect ratio settings on TWC-KC Passport have not worked in a while for me. I do not know if it was coming from the TV station processing or the SA8_00HD.

v/r,
C-F

I recently got a westinghouse lvm-37w1 and an 8300hd. Ive got the box hooked up to the tv over hdmi to dvi. Everything works great except a minor issue. When the local hd channels are not broadcasting true HD signals, I get the following anomalies at the top of the screen in the 4:3 portion:

Im using TWC Cincinnati, passport software. I get this in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Its only with the local channels, and its not 100% of the time. Wondering if this is the 8300 or my local providers problem. Is this somthing I should contact my cable provider over?I'm pretty sure this problem actually originates at the TV station. I have the same exact anomoly on KNBC-DT from time to time. The good news is that it's not the TV and it's not the SA DVR. Just today it showed up on the local NBC News this afternoon on their HD channel (TWC ch 1104 here). So i switched to the TV's internal HD Tuner and tuned to ch 4-1 and sure enough it was there exactly like it is through the cable DVR. I switched back and forth between sources and it was identical on both. So since it happens over the cable DVR and also over the air via an HD antenna it just has to be a problem at the station itself. Right now it's not doing it on either source, but this afternoon it was identical on both. I've seen it on a few other channels in the past too, but NBC seems to be the worst.

I recently got a westinghouse lvm-37w1 and an 8300hd. Ive got the box hooked up to the tv over hdmi to dvi. Everything works great except a minor issue. When the local hd channels are not broadcasting true HD signals, I get the following anomalies at the top of the screen in the 4:3 portion:

http://inexistence.org/westy/twc2.jpg
http://inexistence.org/westy/twc1.jpg

Im using TWC Cincinnati, passport software. I get this in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Its only with the local channels, and its not 100% of the time. Wondering if this is the 8300 or my local providers problem. Is this somthing I should contact my cable provider over?

Thanks

-Davs
If you look at your image in a mirror it clearly says "I buried Paul."

I recently got a westinghouse lvm-37w1 and an 8300hd. Ive got the box hooked up to the tv over hdmi to dvi. Everything works great except a minor issue. When the local hd channels are not broadcasting true HD signals, I get the following anomalies at the top of the screen in the 4:3 portion:

http://inexistence.org/westy/twc2.jpg
http://inexistence.org/westy/twc1.jpg

Im using TWC Cincinnati, passport software. I get this in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Its only with the local channels, and its not 100% of the time. Wondering if this is the 8300 or my local providers problem. Is this somthing I should contact my cable provider over?

Thanks

-Davs

That's underscan, probably caused by the broadcasters not setting up their picture correctly... you can probably adjust your screen one or two clicks upward to get rid of it.

Found a reference, it's evidently actually line 21. Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6669682&&#post6669682)

Here is some more discussion about it and some pictures from Argetni:Post #5049 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6610743&&#post6610743)
Responses: #5051 #5057 (pics)->#5064-5067 #5069 #5071
I think barb1978's problem is not related.

v/r,
C-F

Found a reference, it's evidently actually line 21. Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6669682&&#post6669682)

Here is some more discussion about it and some pictures from Argetni:Post #5049 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6610743&&#post6610743)
Responses: #5051 #5057 (pics)->#5064-5067 #5069 #5071
I think barb1978's problem is not related.

v/r,
C-F

Thanks for the info. I occasionally get it on sd channels too. Unfortunately my set does not accept 480i over dvi (I bet that would fix it). And to top it off, there is no access to the service menu on my monitor(that I can find anywhere). I really dont care, but the wife wonders why I spent 1800$ on a tv and her morning news shows look like crap on the "HD" channels. It'd be impossible to explain it to her. I wonder if TWC could do anything with the box to adjust it. Ive read the non-dvr box doesnt have this issue, but that wont be an option.

Another thing that peeves me off is that about half of the sd channels are not centered and I get faint black frame on the outside of the picture on one side or the other. This wouldnt be a big deal if I could change the grey side bars to black. Unfortunately this is not possible.

Thanks,

Davs

Another thing that peeves me off is that about half of the sd channels are not centered and I get faint black frame on the outside of the picture on one side or the other. This wouldnt be a big deal if I could change the grey side bars to black. Unfortunately this is not possible.
What display are you using?

Thanks for the info. I occasionally get it on sd channels too. Unfortunately my set does not accept 480i over dvi (I bet that would fix it). And to top it off, there is no access to the service menu on my monitor(that I can find anywhere). I really dont care, but the wife wonders why I spent 1800$ on a tv and her morning news shows look like crap on the "HD" channels. It'd be impossible to explain it to her. I wonder if TWC could do anything with the box to adjust it. Ive read the non-dvr box doesnt have this issue, but that wont be an option.

Another thing that peeves me off is that about half of the sd channels are not centered and I get faint black frame on the outside of the picture on one side or the other. This wouldnt be a big deal if I could change the grey side bars to black. Unfortunately this is not possible.

Thanks,

Davs

I read a lot in this thread and others about people constantly struggling with HDMI/DVI. Unless your tv has excellent sound, I would connect the audio to an av receiver via optical audio cable and the video to the tv via component and I'll bet that would solve your problems. (Just my opinion)

I read a lot in this thread and others about people constantly struggling with HDMI/DVI. Unless your tv has excellent sound, I would connect the audio to an av receiver via optical audio cable and the video to the tv via component and I'll bet that would solve your problems. (Just my opinion)
Nobody's TV has excellent sound. The appeal, from what I see, is a single cable connecting each component to the system. But you're right, nearly everybody seems to be struggling. That is especially true for hi-def cable cable box owners, but it seems to extend to anyone trying to pass 5.1 audio, via HDMI, through their displays and on to their pre-pro/receiver. The current HDMI spec does not support it yet.

Me? I use an HDMI-to-DVI cable from my 8300HD to an external DVI switcher and then on to my projector. Audio is handled with a coaxial digital cable to my pre-pro. I use the pretty much the same cabling scheme from my Denon 3910 DVD player, but it has a DVI output.

HDMI is Not Quite Ready for Prime Time yet.

Thanks for the info. I occasionally get it on sd channels too. Unfortunately my set does not accept 480i over dvi (I bet that would fix it). And to top it off, there is no access to the service menu on my monitor(that I can find anywhere). I really dont care, but the wife wonders why I spent 1800$ on a tv and her morning news shows look like crap on the "HD" channels. It'd be impossible to explain it to her. I wonder if TWC could do anything with the box to adjust it. Ive read the non-dvr box doesnt have this issue, but that wont be an option.

Another thing that peeves me off is that about half of the sd channels are not centered and I get faint black frame on the outside of the picture on one side or the other. This wouldnt be a big deal if I could change the grey side bars to black. Unfortunately this is not possible.

Thanks,

Davs

Westinghouse is no longer a respectable brand (I don't know who bought the brand name, but it isn't the original company - which has morphed into CBS/Viacom). I suspect that this is another one of those cases where a set was principally designed as a computer monitor (hence DVI in instead of HDMI) and it just isn't handling standard TV HDMI/DVI signals properly.

Another thing that peeves me off is that about half of the sd channels are not centered and I get faint black frame on the outside of the picture on one side or the other. This wouldnt be a big deal if I could change the grey side bars to black. Unfortunately this is not possible.


I'm going HDMI-HDMI and I get an one inch black bar down the left side of the image as well.

8300HD/JVC 5275

Unfortunately my set does not accept 480i over dvi (I bet that would fix it)... Another thing that peeves me off is that about half of the sd channels are not centered and I get faint black frame on the outside of the picture on one side or the other...Could you run an S-video cable (+ audio cables) and watch the SD channels in 480i that way? You may skip the flashing w/component issue in the LVM-37w1 thread, but there may be an HDCP fault if the TV drops the handshake when you switch to the S-Video input. Couldn't hurt to try.

v/r,
C-F

Recently I reported that TWC San Diego had upgraded our SA8000HD and SA8300HDs from 2.5.027 to 2.5.039 but that I couldn't see much difference on the 8000HD except that the incremental guide search seemed a lot faster. Well, we just found something else. Turning the power "Off" when used to do nothing that anyone could perceive, now turns off buffering, stopping HDD accesses. There is a little strangeness in that, if you do it while playing back a recording, either actively or paused, it will start up on channel 00, no matter what the start-up channel setting is.

Once after I'd turned it "Off" it continued accessing the drive in a leisurely fashion for about 30 seconds, then frantically for another 20 seconds, then rhythmically and briefly for probably 20 minutes: "click...click...click"--maybe a second between. Then it stopped for good. I believe that it performed some sort of maintenance operation. When I turned it back on, buffering seemed much quieter--less random seeking. The operation did not repeat when I turned it off again.

Once after I'd turned it "Off" it continued accessing the drive in a leisurely fashion for about 30 seconds, then frantically for another 20 seconds, then rhythmically and briefly for probably 20 minutes: "click...click...click"--maybe a second between. Then it stopped for good. I believe that it performed some sort of maintenance operation. When I turned it back on, buffering seemed much quieter--less random seeking. The operation did not repeat when I turned it off again.
...sounds like it's doing what us techies call "defragmenting" the disc. What happens is that in the beginning, your disc is blank, and generally the programs will be recorded sequentially on the disc as you record them. But let's say you watch the 2nd program on the disc and it was only 30 minutes long. Let's say that the next program you go to record is 2 hours long....well, it's going to reclaim the 30 minutes of space that the deleted program used and then after recording 30 minutes, it'll jump to the next free space it has, and when playing back, it will have to jump to the next segment at the 30 minute mark.

This is a VERY simplified description of what happens, but you can see that after a while of recording and updating, compounded by the fact that the DVR can record 2 things at once, the disc will get VERY fragmented over time, with bits of programs strewn about all over the place, leading to the hard disc having to jump all around when playing back. Not only will this lead to more wear-and-tear on the drive, it will slow down throughput -- which isn't a huge issue in terms of std. def. programming, but with the much higher bitrates of hi-def programming, this could be an issue.

Anyway, this is a feature that is probably good for all of us in the long-run. When it'll make it out to my area, only the all-knowing staff at Time Warner can predict....

...sounds like it's doing what us techies call "defragmenting" the disc.
Sounds like wishful thinking. I know because I'm wishing for it myself.

My money says that "AVFS" is a journaling filesystem which in theory normally don't need defragging done on it.

My money says that "AVFS" is a journaling filesystem which in theory normally don't need defragging done on it.
I can't think of any reason to bet against you. :) But how is it that files don't become fragmented causing the write/read head to do a lot of traveling to find - or write - non-sequential bits?

I wonder if making a manual recording of 24 hours (or as long as it would let me) would help out with that.

I was thinking of trying it now during the holiday season before Lost, 24, Sci-Fi Friday, etc. return.

Thoughts?

v/r,
C-F

I figured out a fix to that problem I was having with the local channels and black and white jibberish at the top of my screen. If I set the 8300hd to only output 1080i it gets rid of the problem for me.

-Davs

I figured out a fix to that problem I was having with the local channels and black and white jibberish at the top of my screen. If I set the 8300hd to only output 1080i it gets rid of the problem for me.

-Davs
That means you're relying on your 8300HD to upscale everything not already 1080i. As scaling and deinterlacing have become so important, high-end projectors and even many not so high-end models, tout their onboard scaling and deinterlacing capabilities. Some companies sole existance is based on making custom chips for this purpose. Considering that you can't find word one on the 8300HD's scaling/deinterlacing function, how likely is it that the best choice is to have *it* do that job?

Just my $.02.

I wonder if making a manual recording of 24 hours (or as long as it would let me) would help out with that.

I was thinking of trying it now during the holiday season before Lost, 24, Sci-Fi Friday, etc. return.

Thoughts?

v/r,
C-F
Or you could drop by your local junkyard and expose it to their gigantic magnet. :D

I wonder if making a manual recording of 24 hours (or as long as it would let me) would help out with that.

I was thinking of trying it now during the holiday season before Lost, 24, Sci-Fi Friday, etc. return.

Thoughts?

v/r,
C-F
Surely, erasing everything you've got saved on your DVR will accomplish the same thing....

Additionally, there is a key combination on reboot (I can't recall what it is) that will force a reformat of the hard disc -- that will absolutely ensure that you've got no fragmentation on your drive....

Of course you'll also lose all of future and recurring scheduled recordings and you'll have to recreate them all.

Scott

Additionally, there is a key combination on reboot (I can't recall what it is) that will force a reformat of the hard disc -- that will absolutely ensure that you've got no fragmentation on your drive.... I've read about some key sequence on the remote control that will do this but I'm positive it applied to SARA software boxes, not Passport ones. Have you tried it with your Passport box to confirm it works ?? :D

Degausser - I've got. :P

Perhaps I could arrange to 'reformat' it in the name of 'maintenance' during a time of favorable conditions for the inevitable negotiations over whose show gets recorded vice watched live [or missed if we are not home] ...

v/r,
C-F

That will be an interesting diversion tonight: what -would- happen if I degaussed a HHD...
Edit - That was too quick, sort of un-rewarding. I just have a cassette tape degausser.

...sounds like it's doing what us techies call "defragmenting" the disc.I'm a software engineer and I know what disk defragmenting is and I don't think that's what it was doing. Classical deframentation would have involved quite a bit more disk activity as it moved the clusters of the existing files into contiguous spaces. The cluster size of these drives is one second's worth of 19 Mbps video.

As hall stated, I'd bet that they use a modern filesystem design techniques to minimize fragmentation. AFAIK, journaling has nothing to do with fragmentation avoidance--it's a a feature to make the FS easily recoverable after crashes. NTFS is a journaling filesystem and, while less prone to fragmentation than FAT32, journaling has nothing to do with that; it can become seriously fragmented under particular usage patterns. The most common filesystems in use with Linux and other Unix variants today are much more fragmentation resistant, but even they have defrag tools (save for extfs3, which can be downgraded to extfs2 should defragging become necessary).

Fragmentation can rarely be avoided altogether, but in some use-cases it should hardly be an issue. The DVR's filesystem will generally be called upon to handle a relative handful of files--in my case, rarely so many as 20. For many users it will often become completely empty. If properly designed, once all the files are gone, all space should be contiguous. It will never have more than two files open for writing simultaneously.

As I said, I have no idea what the STB was doing with the drive. It might have been performing a bad-block check. I might have been wrong in imagining that it was buffering more quietly--it doesn't really make sense, since those trick-play buffers are preallocated.

I've read about some key sequence on the remote control that will do this but I'm positive it applied to SARA software boxes, not Passport ones. Have you tried it with your Passport box to confirm it works ?? :D

Actually, I did do it on a Passport box that I had some time ago after it had completely flipped out on me. I figured out some combination of buttons that made it reformat on reboot, but can't for the life of me remember what it was -- it was over a year ago at this point.....

Sorry.

You have to figure that the techies at TWC need this combination -- you can't imagine that they sit there and hand-delete all of the programs and future recordings on every box! :-)

Scott

I have the 8300HD with Passport in Orlando, FL.
I noticed you're able to add an external SATA Hard Drive to the 8300HD for extra space.
Is it possible to add a SATA hard drive with existing media on it that the 8300HD could recognize and play?

I have the 8300HD with Passport in Orlando, FL.
I noticed you're able to add an external SATA Hard Drive to the 8300HD for extra space.
Is it possible to add a SATA hard drive with existing media on it that the 8300HD could recognize and play?
With Passport? No. Or, more correctly, not yet.

Throw a couple of logs on the fire and settle in with this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5277957&&#post5277957).

Pepar,

Do you how we might find out if and when eSATA on Passport will be supported?

Who is working on this?

Who at Passport is on this case or is it TWC that is responsible for implementing this sorely needed feature?

I call my local cable provider TWC Bergen County NJ and they say SATA? Whats that?

I need to get on somebody's case. Please give me a starting point!

Thanks

The box itself "supports" SATA drives being attached to it. Next you need the software, in our cases, Passport Echo, to support it. Finally, we need our cableco to install that version that supports it. The cablecos don't write or modify the software that I know of. Maybe each build has options that can be enabled or disabled but even then, I still think they run them "out of the box". TW at a corporate level tests and approves each Echo release to.

pepar has a software version of Echo much newer than all the rest of us (he's not on TWC either) and his still doesn't support it.

Pepar,

Do you how we might find out if and when eSATA on Passport will be supported?

Who is working on this?

Who at Passport is on this case or is it TWC that is responsible for implementing this sorely needed feature?

I call my local cable provider TWC Bergen County NJ and they say SATA? Whats that?

I need to get on somebody's case. Please give me a starting point!

Thanks
Umm, yeah, what hall said. My box is running 2.2.020. Some months ago I talked to the technical supervisor at my provider and he told me that a new Passport version supporting the SATA port would be "installed" between 12/15 and 12/31. As of ten minutes ago, that still hadn't happened. Also, after he told me that, the cable company was purchased by Comcast. So, at this point I have no idea whether or not it will happen. I guess I need to resume my role as The Squeaky Wheel.

The box itself "supports" SATA drives being attached to it. Next you need the software, in our cases, Passport Echo, to support it. Finally, we need our cableco to install that version that supports it. The cablecos don't write or modify the software that I know of. Maybe each build has options that can be enabled or disabled but even then, I still think they run them "out of the box". TW at a corporate level tests and approves each Echo release to.

pepar has a software version of Echo much newer than all the rest of us (he's not on TWC either) and his still doesn't support it.

Hall,

Do you know the company name that writes the Passport Echo SW? Perhaps a conversation with an engineer might shed some definitive light on a projected timetable.

I understand that this is not an SA issue as the 8300HD has the physical port and it has proved to be working with other (SARA) SW. So who is the maker of Passport Echo SW???? Does anyone know?

Pioneer Electronics develops Passport Echo. They've either sold that part of the company of or split it into a seperate company as of a couple of months ago....

It's called Aptiv Digital now.

http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp

Contacting them, IMO, will do you no good. Even if they had a version available today that supports SATA doesn't mean your cableco will install it. I do believe they put out a press release recently that talked about upcoming versions of Echo and the features they're planning. It's referenced in this thread, in fact.

Cable systems (SARA) that have the eSATA port enabled have mostly denied that the capability exists. If these systems (they include Comcast & Time Warner) don't acknowledge the capability how can you expect those same companies to push Aptiv to incorporte the technology for Passport systems.

Lots of luck (I really mean it). ;)

You can see the 3 October PR about Passport Echo 2.7 here (http://www.pioneerbroadband.com/presscenter/pressreleasesdetail.asp?ID=5). While it includes a bunch of cool new features, it does not include support for the SATA port.

Some people will be happy to note that the Saved Show List will have a View Disk Info option to display disk usage estimations. I've argued that this isn't necessary, but it doesn't hurt anything :).

You can tell that Aptiv Digital knows who their customers are: the cable providers. The features which they emphasize in that PR are things which you and I would consider to be "fluff"--"Interactive Video Mosaic" and "iSubscribe™". (As a UI developer I think that they're slick, but not particularly useful). To the cable providers, they're direct potential revenue generators. Improvements in the actual functionality of the device--i.e., the other features in that bulleted list and the absent SATA support--are much less important to them. They're not likely to push firmware updates just to bring those to their customers, if they don't also include crucial bug fixes.

The SATA expansion drive feature is marketed to them by Scientific Atlanta as something that they could offer for lease (they can hit SARA to enable or disable the feature remotely). The question is whether the providers perceive there to be a market for them as a lease option. If not, they have virtually no motive to push the EPG developer to add support for it.

OK. I understand. This sounds fairly hopeless as the people making the decisions dont seem to have any strong motivation to move in this area. It would seem that only if enough people complain to the cable company would there be any incentive to get this implemented any time soon. The existing 20HR limit on HD is really poor and almost unuseable for those who record lots of shows.

So having said that, is there any other way to record more HD hours????

Specifically, what about replacing the internal 160MB with a 500MB drive? Can this be done gracefully or otherwise?

Are there ANY external DASD (non VCR) devices that could record more hours of HD and connect through the 1394 port which from the above thread seems to be connected in Passport SW?

If not, is the 1394 connected DVCR the only other game in town for us poor Passport users and is even this possible at this time?????

Thanks for letting me rant.

I am a technology person and being this close yet so far is REALLY annoying.

So having said that, is there any other way to record more HD hours????


Rent a 2nd 8300HD for the $7 or so per month.

I rent 2 boxes, and run both at the same location, though one is non-HD, and is controlled via a ReplayTV with IR extender. This way I can cover up the IR port on the Cable box so that when Im controlling the HD box, it is not affected. When I control the ReplayTV, it in turn will control the non-HD box.

Anyway, if you were willing to pay the small fee, and figure out a way to run 2 boxes, you could record more HD. If you have HD source switching in your receiver/switcher, then its really only a matter of making sure your remote only controls one box at a time.

Mark

Rent a 2nd 8300HD for the $7 or so per month.

I rent 2 boxes, and run both at the same location, though one is non-HD, and is controlled via a ReplayTV with IR extender. This way I can cover up the IR port on the Cable box so that when Im controlling the HD box, it is not affected. When I control the ReplayTV, it in turn will control the non-HD box.

Anyway, if you were willing to pay the small fee, and figure out a way to run 2 boxes, you could record more HD. If you have HD source switching in your receiver/switcher, then its really only a matter of making sure your remote only controls one box at a time.

Mark

Are you saying that you can control a cable box via a direct wire rather than the IR in the front of the box? I thought that the IR input on the back of the cable box was for IT to control another device (like a VCR). You are suggesting that it can be used in the reverse meaning that the SA can be controlled by direct cable. Is that correct?

No... the SA is controlled with stick on IR emitters, not a direct wire. Once I tell the ReplayTV what kind of cable box I have, I then have an IR emitter that goes from the ReplayTV box, to the SA box.

The non-HD box is dedicated to the ReplayTV, where I record most of my normal shows. I save the 8300HD for mostly HD stuff.

Mark

I'm pretty sure this problem actually originates at the TV station. I have the same exact anomoly on KNBC-DT from time to time. The good news is that it's not the TV and it's not the SA DVR. Just today it showed up on the local NBC News this afternoon on their HD channel (TWC ch 1104 here). So i switched to the TV's internal HD Tuner and tuned to ch 4-1 and sure enough it was there exactly like it is through the cable DVR. I switched back and forth between sources and it was identical on both. So since it happens over the cable DVR and also over the air via an HD antenna it just has to be a problem at the station itself. Right now it's not doing it on either source, but this afternoon it was identical on both. I've seen it on a few other channels in the past too, but NBC seems to be the worst.I saw the same thing with my 8300HD and Westy 32" LCD via DVI. I went to Time Warner, swapped the box and no more white gibberish at the top of the screen. Perhaps some 8300HD's are more sensitive than others to this under-scan issue.

I have been only able to record 4 hours of HD content on the 83000HD. When I try to record two football games it tells me there is not enough space for any new recordings. I check to see what size the drive is and there is 150gb of free space? I thought you were able to record 20hrs of hd content if there is nothing else saved on the drive?

Have you tried re-booting (holding the power button until it resets)?

v/r,
C-F

OK, I find myself totally confused about the best way to hook my PDP, 8300HD and SONY receiver.

For example, I am using component (not HDMI) to connect the 8300HD to the PDP.

Now I am placing the receiver between the PDP and the 8300HD.

For best sound should I use the digital or optical audio cable?

Do I need to connect any audio cables directly to the TV or just the receiver? I quess if I want to use just the PDP TV's speakers and not blast the whole house I would need to hook them up. But then do I always need to power up the receiver or are the component inputs and output a pass through from the 8300HD to the PDP?

In other words, when you connect the component out from the 8300HD to the receiver and from the receiver to the PDP does the receiver do any processing to the signal (assuming 1080i) or just pass it through?

Thanks for helping with these HT newbie questions!

Yes, you must connect digital audio (optical or coax, doesn't really matter which) in order to get that glorious Dolby Digital Surround sound.

The Receiver will pass the component video signal ONLY when it is powered up.

Do you really need the video switching capability of the Receiver or could you connect the 8300HD directly to one of the PDP inputs?
This would also allow you to power down the Receiver for quiet listening---presuming you connect L/R audio from 8300HD to the PDP.

How many other components (DVD?) are you trying to connect to the PDP which would require video switching?

How many HDMI or component video inputs does the PDP have?

It would help to list the manufacturer and model numbers....

RUQRU,
The optical cable is digital. Bottom line, the RCA coax digital and optical digital should give you the exact same outcome. The RCA cable is conductive and could allow a ground loop hum or potential differential - but if you have this you should eliminate it anyway. The optical cable has to be converted from electrons to light and then back, just more stuff in the path. It is Ford/Chevy - it really is a toss-up - unless you have a special need or environment that favors one or the other, or only one open input/output.

What is the reason you need the receiver in the video path? Are you switching all five of the STB to the PDP? If you are not, I would run the component video (R/G/B) and the stereo audio (R/W) to the PDP and whichever digital audio to the receiver. Turn on the receiver when you want surround sound, and turn up the TV speakers to watch the news.

If you are switching the 8300 and the T451 with the receiver, someone more familiar with the receiver you have could help. Which receiver was it?

v/r,
C-F

Edit: Sorry holl_ands, I must type too slow.

I did a "look-back" and see that you have a new LG 50PX1D Plasma, which has HDMI plus two Component Video inputs.
Since you had turn-on problems with the SA8300HD connected to HDMI, you elected to connect Sony DVP-NS70H Upconverting DVD Player to HDMI.

You should connect SA8300HD directly to one of the Component Video inputs.
The second CV input is free to connect to anything else you have...or might have in the future...
You could also connect this second CV input to the Receiver if you need to perform video switching for additional components.

The Optical or Coax output of the SA8300HD, DVD Player, (and whatever....) each go to an input on the Receiver.

===============================================
Q: T451??? Where did he mention a T451???
If there is one, it is connected to 2nd CV input on PDP either direct or via Receiver CV switch.
And also connect Optical or Coax digital audio to Receiver.

Yes, you must connect digital audio (optical or coax, doesn't really matter which) in order to get that glorious Dolby Digital Surround sound.

The Receiver will pass the component video signal ONLY when it is powered up.

Do you really need the video switching capability of the Receiver or could you connect the 8300HD directly to one of the PDP inputs?
This would also allow you to power down the Receiver for quiet listening---presuming you connect L/R audio from 8300HD to the PDP.

How many other components (DVD?) are you trying to connect to the PDP which would require video switching?

How many HDMI or component video inputs does the PDP have?

It would help to list the manufacturer and model numbers....

Thanks, I already have the 8300HD hooked up directly to the PDP so what you are suggesting is to leave that as is and just hook up the optical audio cable for surround, correct?

I have an upconverting DVD, the Sony HDMI DVD (DVP-NS70H) attached to my PDP's only HDMI port. I plan on using another optical cable to hook up the sound to the Sony receiver.

So if all I want is surround sound, then I can leave all the video hooked up as it directly to the PDP and just use the receiver for sound. This gives me the most flexibility, right?

I've never understood the point of passing everything through a stereo receiver. I have my 8300HD hooked up via DVI and composite audio directly to the TV. I also have the digital audio (can't recall if it's coaxial or optical) to my Sony AV receiver. This way, if we're just watching "regular" TV, we use the TV's built-in speakers. If we're watching a movie or something that has "good" sound, we mute the TV and turn on the AV receiver.

I did a "look-back" and see that you have a new LG 50PX1D Plasma, which has HDMI plus two Component Video inputs.
Since you had turn-on problems with the SA8300HD connected to HDMI, you elected to connect Sony DVP-NS70H Upconverting DVD Player to HDMI.

You should connect SA8300HD directly to one of the Component Video inputs.
The second CV input is free to connect to anything else you have...or might have in the future...
You could also connect this second CV input to the Receiver if you need to perform video switching for additional components.

The Optical or Coax output of the SA8300HD, DVD Player, (and whatever....) each go to an input on the Receiver.

===============================================
Q: T451??? Where did he mention a T451???
If there is one, it is connected to 2nd CV input on PDP either direct or via Receiver CV switch.
And also connect Optical or Coax digital audio to Receiver.

Thanks, that is what I will do. Good idea about using the second CV with the receiver for on screen menus from the receiver.

Actaully, the turn on problem is with the Sharp Aquos. I had it connected DVI->HDMI. Now it is also on CV. I never used the HDMI port on the LG with an 8300HD because the upconverting DVD player needs the port!

Yea I have a T451 hooked up to my LCD Aquos. It was used as backup from my E* days when we had rain fade on the sat. I could get OTA signals with the SS2000 antenna ;-) Now that we have BHN I rarely use it.

I've never understood the point of passing everything through a stereo receiver. I have my 8300HD hooked up via DVI and composite audio directly to the TV. I also have the digital audio (can't recall if it's coaxial or optical) to my Sony AV receiver. This way, if we're just watching "regular" TV, we use the TV's built-in speakers. If we're watching a movie or something that has "good" sound, we mute the TV and turn on the AV receiver.

Thanks...that is exactly what we want to do. No need to have CNBC blasting through the sub! -- OK maybe "closing bell."

RUQRU,
The optical cable is digital. Bottom line, the RCA coax digital and optical digital should give you the exact same outcome. The RCA cable is conductive and could allow a ground loop hum or potential differential - but if you have this you should eliminate it anyway. The optical cable has to be converted from electrons to light and then back, just more stuff in the path. It is Ford/Chevy - it really is a toss-up - unless you have a special need or environment that favors one or the other, or only one open input/output.


Finally got it all hooked up the way suggested here. Works just as I wanted. HT Receiver does sound only when I want it. Rest of the time, that is regular TV, news, etc., we can use the PDP speakers and leave the receiver off.

Also hooked up an XM Radio to the Sony receiver -- awesome!

Thanks again for the help.

Does the SA 8300 HD box have a skip ahead FF button? Thanks.

Three FF speeds...just keep hitting the FF button to speed it up.

But no 30 or 60 sec commercial zapper.

And in case you read that there are macros available that you can program into your remote, don't get your hopes up about it working (well).

I have been corresponding regarding the SATA port with the director of technical operations at my cable provider. He, in turn, has been talking to Aptiv (Pio Digital) about it. Previously, the information was that the upgrade would be "installed" 12/15 - 12/31. When that hadn't happened - I'm still on 2.2.020 - by 12/30, I emailed him again for an update. Here is his reply:

"The update has been pushed to first quarter 06."

We are only being told the release will be sometime before 3/31/06.
He has requested another progress report 2/1/06 and will forward me any information he gets. This person has been johnny-on-the-spot in replying to my queries, which is a real breath of fresh air and in stark contrast to the experiences of nearly everyone else posting here.

(As an aside to the specific topic of this post, which might be of interest to subscribers of this thread, I asked him what factors would lead a cable provider to choose Passport over SARA. He replied that they had tested both packages and found Passport to be superior and more robust than SARA. In fairness, he did allow that SARA has come a long way since that decision was made.)

As had been mentioned many times on this thread and the "8300HD and External SATA - It Works!!" thread, the availability of the Passport version that activates the SATA port is in no way a guarantee that any given cable provider will deploy it. But it is certainly a necessary first step to that end. I will immediately post any further information that I get.

I predict that the activation of my SATA port - and my posting same here - will precipate a phone call/email shitstorm of biblical proportions raining down on cable providers in every market using Passport that have NOT deployed the upgrade.

The Passport SATA SAGA continues . . .

I believe your contact mis-informed you. The choice of PASSPORT versus SARA is pretty much based on what head-end equipment and software your cable company uses in your area. I do not think the providers made an actual evaluation of the DVR software options.

That being said, every day I thank the electronics gods that I live in a PASSPORT environment. Even now, PASSPORT is better than SARA, and 6 months ago it was a real no-brainer.

-barry

I believe your contact mis-informed you. The choice of PASSPORT versus SARA is pretty much based on what head-end equipment and software your cable company uses in your area. I do not think the providers made an actual evaluation of the DVR software options.
What kind of tech-related company doesn't evaluate something as major as the user interface that will be used by all of it's subscribers, good, bad & ugly? While I don't know the details and haven't seen documents, I don't find it odd that they would evaluate software before buying in. As they're small and progressive, perhaps they did a top to bottom design and weren't locked into anything.

I have to agree with margoba on that. Unless it's a new cable plant build, there often won't be an option of choosing one vs the other. If I understand it correctly, SARA will only work with SA head-end equipment whereas Passport is more cross-platform capable.

I have been corresponding regarding the SATA port with the director of technical operations at my cable provider. He, in turn, has been talking to Aptiv (Pio Digital) about it. Previously, the information was that the upgrade would be "installed" 12/15 - 12/31. When that hadn't happened - I'm still on 2.2.020 - by 12/30, I emailed him again for an update. Here is his reply:


He has requested another progress report 2/1/06 and will forward me any information he gets. This person has been johnny-on-the-spot in replying to my queries, which is a real breath of fresh air and in stark contrast to the experiences of nearly everyone else posting here.

(As an aside to the specific topic of this post, which might be of interest to subscribers of this thread, I asked him what factors would lead a cable provider to choose Passport over SARA. He replied that they had tested both packages and found Passport to be superior and more robust than SARA. In fairness, he did allow that SARA has come a long way since that decision was made.)

As had been mentioned many times on this thread and the "8300HD and External SATA - It Works!!" thread, the availability of the Passport version that activates the SATA port is in no way a guarantee that any given cable provider will deploy it. But it is certainly a necessary first step to that end. I will immediately post any further information that I get.

I predict that the activation of my SATA port - and my posting same here - will precipate a phone call/email shitstorm of biblical proportions raining down on cable providers in every market using Passport that have NOT deployed the upgrade.

The Passport SATA SAGA continues . . .

Pepar,

Thanks for the really informative update on this. Now, can you tell me which cable operator you are using? I am on TWC Bergen County NJ (I think this has merged with TWC New York City. Do I have any hope????

Thanks,
Harold

Pepar,

Thanks for the really informative update on this. Now, can you tell me which cable operator you are using? I am on TWC Bergen County NJ (I think this has merged with TWC New York City. Do I have any hope????

Thanks,
Harold
Don't mean to be cryptic, but I'd rather not identify the company so as not to identify the source. I can tell you that I am NOT on TWC (or any other well-known system). I suggest that you try to make your way to the top of the technical department of your provider and ask. You have the piece of info about it being released in 1Q2006 to wave at them.

Tease ;)

TM

Tease ;)

TM
TM, you're like Kilroy. :D

Hello all,

I recently got a new 8300 with firewire/sata. It was brand new out of the box. I connected an external SATA drive (400 GB). I have now recorded over 24 hours of HD programing (mostly HD net). Under the DVR AVFS menu screen total av size is 500.7 GB. Apparently I am loosing about 50 GB between the OS and formating of the drives.

I have tried this for so long and had thought I bought an SATA drive for nothing. This same test failed over with the older non-firewire 8300 but I would try it about once per month just to make sure the feature wasn't enabled.

This is awesome! I am continuing to record to see how many hours I can fit.

There is one strange thing to report. It seems that the live TV buffer doesn't work correctly. I will call warner later today to see if they have any suggestions.

currently running PASS ECHO 1.8.112


:D

galen,

Where are you? It would help the rest of us a lot to put your location on your profile as it is significant what cable system (city and company) that you are on.

I'm positive that Echo 1.8.112 does NOT support SATA drives at all. Something's not right here...

I understand your hesitation. If I didn't see it I wouldn't believe it either.

I use Time Warner NYC.

Keep in mind that I have the newer 8300 with firewire and that the same drive would NOT work with the older 8300 without firewire.

I wish I could explain the difference between the two boxes.

I am using the following:
cruz ata cable
Seagate 400GB
generic sata housing

Please let me know if you would like any other details from the service menu and I will post them.

I also posted a similar post with some additional notes in the "8300HD and External SATA - It works!!" board

I understand your hesitation. If I didn't see it I wouldn't believe it either.

I use Time Warner NYC.


can you add your location to your profile page so that it appears with every post? Knowing where someone is when making a comment is a huge factor in the Passport world.

Here's my problem...anyone with any ideas?

Just got a new Sony HDTV. I connect the TV via HDMI cable to my SA8300 running at 1080i. When I'm on a HD channel...no problems. I also have no problems changing channels on the 8300. Here's the problem. When I turn off the TV...then turn it back on again, the setting on the 8300 goes from 1080i to 480i automatically.

I called TWC and they told me that this is a common problem on the 8300 DVR boxes. The regular HD cable boxes don't have this problem, just the 8300w/ DVR. They said the only fix for this at this time was to use component cables (YPrPb). Anyone else have this issue or any other solutions?

Is the component cables comparable to HDMI (visually)?

Hope I haven't asked a question that was already answered. I just joined this forum by google, and was lead to this thread. Most of the questions I read on this thread pertained to audio though.

I hope I can add some valuable info on this site...in time to come.

Cheers,

R.

Rigaze,

using your remote try the following:

press the settings button -> more settings ("A" key) -> scroll to output formats -> press the right arrow next to select and deselect 480i as an option (you wouldn't want that display resolution anyway.)

Hope that helps... welcome to the whacky world of HD DVR issues

for curiosity value from CES - picture of the external SATA expansion drive for the SA8300. Sadly doesn't say if it's Passport compatible.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2664&p=5

for curiosity value from CES - picture of the external SATA expansion drive for the SA8300. Sadly doesn't say if it's Passport compatible.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2664&p=5
If it works on the 8300HD, it is Passport "compatible" in that when Passport siupports the SATA port, this drive will work.

If it works on the 8300HD, it is Passport "compatible" in that when Passport siupports the SATA port, this drive will work.

what I meant was, the blurb doesn't say if it was running a demo with a Passport based unit. Using some beta future update.

what I meant was, the blurb doesn't say if it was running a demo with a Passport based unit. Using some beta future update.
10-4.

Why does the drive need to claim to be compatible ?? I thought the intent was the any SATA external HDD would work.

Why does the drive need to claim to be compatible ?? I thought the intent was the any SATA external HDD would work.
Generally, that's the case. But there's also something about error-handling. For computer use, error-correction - 100% accurate data - is paramount. For streaming video, well . . the show must go on! Take the hit from the error with a picture glitch that passes in a flash, but do not stop to re-read the data as that will freeze the video. We have yet to discover if there's any special firmware in the Maxtor Quickview drives that make them specifically for streaming video.

Here's my problem...anyone with any ideas?

Just got a new Sony HDTV. I connect the TV via HDMI cable to my SA8300 running at 1080i. When I'm on a HD channel...no problems. I also have no problems changing channels on the 8300. Here's the problem. When I turn off the TV...then turn it back on again, the setting on the 8300 goes from 1080i to 480i automatically.

I called TWC and they told me that this is a common problem on the 8300 DVR boxes. The regular HD cable boxes don't have this problem, just the 8300w/ DVR. They said the only fix for this at this time was to use component cables (YPrPb). Anyone else have this issue or any other solutions?

Is the component cables comparable to HDMI (visually)?

Hope I haven't asked a question that was already answered. I just joined this forum by google, and was lead to this thread. Most of the questions I read on this thread pertained to audio though.

I hope I can add some valuable info on this site...in time to come.

Cheers,

R.One possibility is that the HDMI HDCP handshake is lost when the TV is off and the protocol then forces the HDMI output to 480i. Have you tried turning off and back on the 8300HD (while the TV is still left on) to cause the HDMI to redo the handshake?

Generally, that's the case. But there's also something about error-handling. For computer use, error-correction - 100% accurate data - is paramount. For streaming video, well . . the show must go on! Take the hit from the error with a picture glitch that passes in a flash, but do not stop to re-read the data as that will freeze the video. We have yet to discover if there's any special firmware in the Maxtor Quickview drives that make them specifically for streaming video.From the Maxtor Quickview spec-sheet/brochure (http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/quickview_data_sheet.pdf)The new addition to the QuickView portfolio of hard
drives includes the following features: Storage capacity up to 300GB, which translates into 300 hours of standard definition recording or 54 hours of
high definition recording available.†
ATA 7 Streaming Commands to enable standard streaming and AV performance and PATA/SATA interface improvements.
MHX stream detection technology (dual processor and improved streaming) to maximize streaming efficiency of the drive and data management to optimize performance.Since people in the other thread seem to be using random drives successfully with SARA, I kind of doubt that the ATA 7 streaming commands are required; the drive can probably be polled to see if it supports them and use them or not accordingly. The 3rd bullet would seem to indicate some automatic sensing of streaming-patterning accesses and automatic cache optimization for streaming when it has sensed it. Good, but not essential. No mention of any specialized error-correction.

I don't know what you mean in any case. All HDD error-correction is performed prior to the data being transferred--rereading of the disk due to surface errors or such would be completely transparent to the host. If data is gone, it's gone, and no amount of error correction is going to get it back; if it's damaged and recoverable, it'll happen without host intervention.

whatever capabilites the Quickview drives have they must be easy to reproduce by other vendors. My 8300 is using a Western Digital drive and it can't be the only one. If the drives are not similar to each other then it's going to create an even greater splintering of the TWC DVR distributed models.

whatever capabilites the Quickview drives have they must be easy to reproduce by other vendors. My 8300 is using a Western Digital drive and it can't be the only one. If the drives are not similar to each other then it's going to create an even greater splintering of the TWC DVR distributed models.Scientific Atlanta's proposed business model for this feature is not for end-users to attach their own randomly acquired storage to these boxes, but for the cable service providers to lease them. The leased drives would be known to be compatible.

I don't know what you mean in any case. All HDD error-correction is performed prior to the data being transferred--rereading of the disk due to surface errors or such would be completely transparent to the host. If data is gone, it's gone, and no amount of error correction is going to get it back; if it's damaged and recoverable, it'll happen without host intervention.
I doubt if one video stream - or even two - would tax a present day 7200rpm drive and would probably come from the buffer anyway, but at some point re-reading data would be enough of a hiccup to momentarily freeze the video.

Just got a new Sony HDTV. I connect the TV via HDMI cable to my SA8300 running at 1080i. When I'm on a HD channel...no problems. I also have no problems changing channels on the 8300. Here's the problem. When I turn off the TV...then turn it back on again, the setting on the 8300 goes from 1080i to 480i automatically.

I called TWC and they told me that this is a common problem on the 8300 DVR boxes. The regular HD cable boxes don't have this problem, just the 8300w/ DVR. They said the only fix for this at this time was to use component cables (YPrPb). Anyone else have this issue or any other solutions?

Is the component cables comparable to HDMI (visually)?
R.

I have the exact same problem. Did you find a solution? Before I pull the unit off the wall, I want to know if swapping HDMI for Component worked. Thanks.

David

Just got a new Sony HDTV. I connect the TV via HDMI cable to my SA8300 running at 1080i. When I'm on a HD channel...no problems. I also have no problems changing channels on the 8300. Here's the problem. When I turn off the TV...then turn it back on again, the setting on the 8300 goes from 1080i to 480i automatically.

I called TWC and they told me that this is a common problem on the 8300 DVR boxes. The regular HD cable boxes don't have this problem, just the 8300w/ DVR. They said the only fix for this at this time was to use component cables (YPrPb). Anyone else have this issue or any other solutions?

Is the component cables comparable to HDMI (visually)?

What version of Passport are you using? Please add your location to your email profile so that people in your area might be able to give you some more accurate help.

Annoyingly I've had no problem with HDMI using just the 720 and 1080 output using Echo 1.8.11.1 (or whatever number of 1s it is). Visually I noticed a slight improvement in contrast but I was more happy about the reduction in cables. I don't remember being blown away by a massive improvement in picture though.

Why don't they just ship these units with bigger hard drives (500gig?) built in, rather then having to buy an external one?

Why don't they just ship these units with bigger hard drives (500gig?) built in, rather then having to buy an external one?

they'll probably get larger incrementally but I'd guess the reason they don't put a huge drive in there now is that it would raise the SA production cost of the unit for TWC. Why spend more money to buy better equipment to distribute that makes no more revenue, when you can rent additional accessories that will bring in more monthly payments?

Why put in larger HDDs ?? The average customer is fine with what they're using.... People who post here are not the average customer, of course.

Why put in larger HDDs ?? The average customer is fine with what they're using.... People who post here are not the average customer, of course.

I disagree...it's all about the Benjamins. 160GB is not enough for HDTV recording, which is what the 8300 is "supposed" to about.

I am having trouble accessing the diagnotics menu and HDTV Set-Up Menu on my TWC Explorer 8300HD here in Charlotte.

My plan was to test the Auto DVI mode but I can't access the menus to change the settings.

All of the methods I have read about do not seem to work:

Holding Select..........

Holding in Info and Guide at the same time....

Trying channels 999 or 611.............

etc.

Are there any other TWC Charlotte 8300HD users that can give me some advice?

Thanks

PASSPORT ECHO instructions:

Press SETTINGS key and then MORE SETTINGS ("A" key), scroll down to select.

To enter Extended Diagnostics menus:
First hold down EXIT and then hold down SELECT and wait for "DIAG" in front display.
Release and hit EXIT again. "A" key varies transparenty.
Change channel to exit. Can re-enter at any time with EXIT or change to CH611.
Must re-enable whenever power down DVR.

===============================
SARA instructions:

To enter Setup Wizard:
With HDTV ON and SA8300HD OFF, press both GUIDE and INFO at same time.

To adjust Settings: Press SETTINGS key.

To enter CV Pass-Thru or HDMI setup menu: Press SETTINGS key twice

Holl_ands,

Thanks for the tips but I have already tried those with no success.

I'm not sure if my box is defective.

The only option I have to control output formats is in the extended settings area. There I can select the Output Formats for the box.

I tried selecting 1080i only and found that the SD channels looked choppy.

When using 1080i and 480p, the SD channels looked a little smoother.

All HDD error-correction is performed prior to the data being transferred--rereading of the disk due to surface errors or such would be completely transparent to the host. If data is gone, it's gone, and no amount of error correction is going to get it back; if it's damaged and recoverable, it'll happen without host intervention.I think it mostly started here: Post #421 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5937327&&#post5937327). If we take those [customer relations type] numbers as reasonably accurate, it could be a concern for some of the last 10%ers. I did some envelope math in this thread about it earlier. #1763 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6180918&&#post6180918) -1766.

Not a HHD engineer so that is only as good as the source documents...

Edit: sorry, I meant to say that my take on the intent in the streaming ATA7-command or specialty firmware was to stop the automated error recovery. It also sounds similar to the RAID firmware that fails out earlier to assist in performance.

v/r,
C-F

I disagree...it's all about the Benjamins. 160GB is not enough for HDTV recording, which is what the 8300 is "supposed" to about.160GB gives you 20 hours of 18 Mbps HDTV or 90 hours of 4 Mbps SD digital-cable (typical bitrate). Only four services on my cable system average 18 Mbps: HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN HD and TNT HD. The subscription HD movie channels average much lower (I've been told that their content is carefully pre-encoded). The highest average bitrate of any of the local broadcasters is 17 Mbps (ABC--CBS averages 13, NBC averages 15.7 and Fox 10.5 or so). Of course, the lower the average bitrate and more you can record. I could get about 37 hours of Fox on :).

The SA8300HD's spec-sheet (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7004920.pdf) does say that there are larger drives available. Personally, I'd like to see them go up to 250GB--that'd give us 30 hours of 18 Mbps content (and 138 hours of SD digital-cable). That, however, is MHO. The point is that "enough" is a relative term. No matter what size drive that they put on there it wouldn't be "enough" for everyone, and it just raises the cable provider's cost, which they'll just pass on to everyone.

The device is for timeshifting, not archiving; you have to draw the line somewhere. Providing those who need it the ability to easily expand the storage would be best.

Take heart; this year TiVo is promising a dual NTSC, ATSC, CableCARD tuner (two S-CARD or one M-CARD) device with expandable storage :). See this (http://ces.engadget.com/2006/01/05/tivo-announces-series-3-hd-tivo-due-this-year/) at Engadget for a quick blurb and this (http://www.livejournal.com/community/tivolovers/tag/series3) in some guy's blog for more details.

I am having trouble accessing the diagnotics menu and HDTV Set-Up Menu on my TWC Explorer 8300HD here in Charlotte.

My plan was to test the Auto DVI mode but I can't access the menus to change the settings.

All of the methods I have read about do not seem to work:

Holding Select..........

Holding in Info and Guide at the same time....

Trying channels 999 or 611.............

etc.

Are there any other TWC Charlotte 8300HD users that can give me some advice?

Thanks

You need to press and hold Select and Exit until you hear the tone and the display on the 8300 shows"diag", then tune to channel 611.

I think it mostly started here: Post #421 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5937327&&#post5937327). If we take those [customer relations type] numbers as reasonably accurate, it could be a concern for some of the last 10%ers. I did some envelope math in this thread about it earlier. #1763 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6180918&&#post6180918) -1766.

Not a HHD engineer so that is only as good as the source documents...Ah. Automated hard error-correction attempts would create a data delivery latency problem for streaming operation (I've had drives meltdown and they become bog-uselessly slow--time to bail :)). However, the only alternative is to not deliver pieces of the data, which will cause gross artifacting in the output of corrupted recordings. It's a reasonable tactic, though.

I am having trouble accessing the diagnotics menu and HDTV Set-Up Menu on my TWC Explorer 8300HD here in Charlotte.

My plan was to test the Auto DVI mode but I can't access the menus to change the settings.

All of the methods I have read about do not seem to work:

Holding Select..........

Holding in Info and Guide at the same time....

Trying channels 999 or 611.............

There seems to be three or more different methods used around the country to get into the multi-page Diagnostic mode. My way is completely different than the one you posted above. Some can tune directly to the channel but i cannot.

In my TWC region, turning to the Diagnostic channel (1999 here) doesn't do
anything - so i have to go to the box's front panel and hold down the Select
and Exit keys simultaneously till it dings and DIAGNO appears in the display
whereupon i release the buttons then quickly push EXIT again and the box
tunes itself to channel 1999 and i get the multiple pages of information and
just scroll through the pages using the up/down arrow keys. As long as i don't
turn the box off i can go back to regular channels then return to channel 1999
using the remote. Once i turn the box off however i can't directly tune it to
channel 1999 - i have to use the front panels buttons again to get back into
that mode.

To exit just hit CH+ or CH-

Try this and see if it works . . . . . ;)

PS: I just added an 8300HD to my existing SA8000 and SA8000HD. I'll be returning the SA8000 in a week or so since it got corrupted when they pushed 2.5.027 onto it a few months ago. I still have some recordings i have to watch then back it goes. Pity, it worked flawlessly for over two years until this last update screwed it up so it i guess it's time to replace it with the 8300HD. So far i like the 8300HD, but man is it UGLY and obnoxious looking !

Randy, is your SATA port activated?

One possibility is that the HDMI HDCP handshake is lost when the TV is off and the protocol then forces the HDMI output to 480i. Have you tried turning off and back on the 8300HD (while the TV is still left on) to cause the HDMI to redo the handshake?

I did. No luck. The 8300 still resets itself to 480i. I also deleted the 480i setting as galen suggested, but no luck.

--dweissnj

I switched to component cables, and the visual quality is outstanding, so I'm not disappointed. I'm running the audio through my receiver, so the single line hdmi cable wasn't going to be used for audio anyway...so I guess I shouldn't be upset. Plus, I get to take that hdmi cable back to Best Buy and get my $100.00 back. ha.

--VisionOn

I'm in Houston, Texas. I'll update my e-mail location. I may have posted this question in the wrong thread though...because I'm not too familiar with "Passport", nor do I know if I have it. :confused:
I do have Time Warner Cable though. Is there a way of finding out if my 8300 has Passport software? I'm a little out of the know.

Cheers,

R.

Randy, is your SATA port activated?Unknown :(

I'm in Houston, Texas. I may have posted this question in the wrong thread though...because I'm not too familiar with "Passport", nor do I know if I have it. I do have Time Warner Cable though. Is there a way of finding out if my 8300 has Passport software? Being in Houston, I believe you will have SARA software.

The easiest way to find out if you have Passport or not is to reboot the set-top. Passport boxes display the Passport logo during bootup. I've no idea what a SARA box does. There are other ways to tell if you're running SARA. If you have a menu option to change the color of the sidebars for 4:3 programming, it's SARA. If you have menu options, under "Resolution" (???), like "Up-convert 1", "Up-convert 2", and so on, you've got SARA.

Randy,

Thank you so much for the tip on how to access the Diagnotics menu on the 8300HD.

Holding down the Select & Exit buttons, waiting for the ding and then hitting Exit again worked great!

It was neat to see how much space is taken up on the hard drive. I now have a way to see how much more I can record before having to delete some shows to make room. :D

It was neat to see how much space is taken up on the hard drive. I now have a way to see how much more I can record before having to delete some shows to make room. When you view your "List" of recorded programs, it will add an hourglass and a note about how many days before it will automatically delete a program when it gets past some threshold. No need to go into the diag menus. Seeing that you have "X" gb of space left doesn't help much.... Does anyone know how much space an analog, 30-minute show takes up vs a 1:45 movie on Showtime HD takes ??

When you view your "List" of recorded programs, it will add an hourglass and a note about how many days before it will automatically delete a program when it gets past some threshold. No need to go into the diag menus. Seeing that you have "X" gb of space left doesn't help much.... Does anyone know how much space an analog, 30-minute show takes up vs a 1:45 movie on Showtime HD takes ??In my measurements, analog recording is at a flat 2.4GB/hour, so a half-hour would be 1.2GB. Showtime HD is said to be multi-pass encoded and delivered to the providers for untouched presentation at fairly low variable bitrates. Back when I was taking measurements (47 hours worth of Showtime HD sampled in total), it averaged 11.05 Mpbs with a standard deviation of 1.55; average bitrates of individual programs ranged from 6.84 Mbps (Wes Craven Presents: They, an extremely dark film about creepy bug-a-boos which can only attack in the dark) to 13.23 Mbps (The Last Detail). That'd make 6300 seconds at the average rate take up 8.1GB (it'd be 5GB at that 6.84 Mbps rate and 9.7GB at the 13.23 Mbps rate).

Of course, the last sample I have of Showtime HD was from back in May---they may have changed since then.

I agree with you about the count-of-gigabytes-as-a-recording-management-aid thing. In 18 months of heavy use I've found the hourglass scheme to be fine for my needs, but they've evidently had more than one request from users for some sort of remaining-space indicator--in a 3 October PR (http://www.pioneerbroadband.com/presscenter/pressreleasesdetail.asp?ID=5) about an upcoming 2.7 revision, they mention the following new feature of the Saved Shows List:
One new option, "View Disk Info," displays a summary of DVR disk space usage (like a gas gauge) including the amount of hours of "Estimated Free Space", "Saved Until Manually Erased", "Automatically Erased as Needed" content.Though I don't think that it's necessary, it can't hurt anything. At least it's marked in some kind of estimate of hours, though how they do that with the huge range of bitrates, I don't know :D.

When you view your "List" of recorded programs, it will add an hourglass and a note about how many days before it will automatically delete a program when it gets past some threshold. No need to go into the diag menus. Seeing that you have "X" gb of space left doesn't help much.... Does anyone know how much space an analog, 30-minute show takes up vs a 1:45 movie on Showtime HD takes ??
I *think* it's 10:1, hall.

Seeing that you have "X" gb of space left doesn't help much.... Does anyone know how much space an analog, 30-minute show takes up vs a 1:45 movie on Showtime HD takes ??

I'm always checking my disk usage even though I have no clear idea of the space requirements. When the drive is 3/4 full I know I have to start freeing up some space if I have several HD shows coming up that I want to record. I don't like the hourglass since you can schedule a last minute movie after it indicates you have 2-3 days left on a show and that show will then vanish instantly.

I understand your hesitation. If I didn't see it I wouldn't believe it either.

I use Time Warner NYC.

Keep in mind that I have the newer 8300 with firewire and that the same drive would NOT work with the older 8300 without firewire.

I wish I could explain the difference between the two boxes.

I am using the following:
cruz ata cable
Seagate 400GB
generic sata housing

Please let me know if you would like any other details from the service menu and I will post them.

I also posted a similar post with some additional notes in the "8300HD and External SATA - It works!!" board

Galen, were you able to choose your box at TW? I was told it 'depends on what's in stock' (??) Also, they said HDMI is not being output 'yet' due to software issue? Does any of this make sense?

As I said in another post, I'm getting a commercial HD Panny plasma with HDMI blade, and am now wondering if I need/should get the DVI blade as well. Now I'm quite confused after speaking with TWCNYC.

Regarding the hourglass, once it shows up on say (4) programs and then you delete (2) programs, what's the trick for getting the hourglass to disappear from the other (2) ?? I know rebooting the box will do it, but there's gotta be a more elegant way. Is patience the key ?? :D

It's not as if deleting the programs I did delete don't help. They do, as confirmed by rebooting the box. Doing that clears the hourglass. One might say that rebooting also cleans up tmp files are "lost" bits, but I would hope those pieces aren't counted against the true available space. The set-top knows which files it's tracking and should calculate things based on those, not on "total" free space of the disc.

When you view your "List" of recorded programs, it will add an hourglass and a note about how many days before it will automatically delete a program when it gets past some threshold. No need to go into the diag menus. Seeing that you have "X" gb of space left doesn't help much.... Does anyone know how much space an analog, 30-minute show takes up vs a 1:45 movie on Showtime HD takes ??
In my own personal observation (TWC NYC), I find that if I assume 6Gb/hr of HD recording and 1.5Gb/hr of SD (DTV channels) recording, it's a pretty good assumption. Sometimes (often) the recordings take up less space, but since the 8300HD seems to want at least that much space for any program (it makes the decision of how much space it needs BEFORE it starts recording -- not based upon the actual bitrate), this is a good estimate.

Additionally, the 8300HD does not like to go below 6GB of free space, so that's when you can assume it'll start deleting stuff (or if you're like me and don't want the DVR deciding what to erase) or not record the program (all of your programs are set to "Keep until I erase").

Scott

Regarding the hourglass, once it shows up on say (4) programs and then you delete (2) programs, what's the trick for getting the hourglass to disappear from the other (2) ?? I know rebooting the box will do it, but there's gotta be a more elegant way. Is patience the key ?? :D

It's not as if deleting the programs I did delete don't help. They do, as confirmed by rebooting the box. Doing that clears the hourglass. One might say that rebooting also cleans up tmp files are "lost" bits, but I would hope those pieces aren't counted against the true available space. The set-top knows which files it's tracking and should calculate things based on those, not on "total" free space of the disc.
Strangely enough, I noticed that simply moving it within the purge list (without actually changing the purge order) deleted the hourglass.
I only had a couple programs that weren't "SAVE UNTIL MANUALLY DELETED".

I notice that there's a delay in the hourglasses disappearing; it's as though it doesn't instantly reassess the deletion schedule when you delete something (or add something to the recording schedule). Maybe it only does this periodically. If I come back and look at it several minutes after deleting some things, the hourglasses and retention times will have been adjusted--I'm not sure how long.

I've never seen it delete something prior to starting the recording for which it needed the space, which is what VisionOn seems to be implying.