It's a little more difficult than that - unless I'm missing something, when you use the HDMI out on the 8300, it disables the ability to select any other output. It only allows 1080i. When I disconnect the HDMI to DVI cable, I can select outher outputs and I did try that - and there's no question that SD using a 480i signal to the Runco's component input that uses the Runco's scaler looks far better than SD upconverted by the 8300 transmitted over the HDMI to DVI channel. Problem is I can't figure out an easy way to change between the two, since the STB is so inflexible ...Are you saying "change between" them to mean "use the component video for 480i and the HDMI for 1080i"? Is the quality of 1080i (possibly scaled from 720p by the STB then scaled again by your Runco back to 720p) is that much superior to the component out? If you use component, you could tell the box that your television can handle 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i and it would send all the formats to your television without internal scaling; you'd certainly think that 720p (ABC, Fox, ESPN HD) would look a bit better than they would scaled to 1080i and then scaled back to 720p.

I've heard so much about problems with these boxes while using HDMI that I really don't think that the feature is ready for primetime. Someone complained bitterly about seeing frequent lock-ups requiring a cold boot (pulling the plug for a minute) to restart. I asked in a local San Diego HDTV forum and only the people using HDMI reported similar problems.

When I say technical issue, I mean how the backend storage is handled, one copy per user, or no more than one copy with a list of read only users, if it "behaves" just like a set top box DVR it may be possible to treat the copyright issue the same as a set top DVR. You could have a totally "blind" backend storage process that looked for arbitrary but duplicate data patterns (files even) and replaced the duplicate information with a token linked to a single instance of the data.I understood what you meant by "technical". I've been a software engineer for 30 years, with about 12 years working on firmware in consumer electronics and about 10 (horribly boring :rolleyes: ) years working on distributed management agents embedded in large- and medium-scale networking devices (optical switches, routers, etc), so I have some degree of understanding of the technical issues. And while it's perfectly possible to do this remote-storage DVR thing using a single copy of each program (or more probably, multiple distributed copies, but orders of magnitude fewer than 1 per user), the legalities cannot be ignored. That the product not break the law is just another requirement in the specifications :).
Timeshifting and playshifting are going to be battle grounds. Must play first and do not skip flags are certain, and once we have no choice expect the commercial etc. to be worse.To an extent this is true. As I stated, the commercial broadcasters are generally opposed to timeshifting devices which allow ad-skipping; they just can't do anything about devices in our homes. (Though they did manage to sue SonicBlue out of business over a ReplayTV automatic ad-skipping feature; the buyers of Replay after SonicBlue went bust promptly--and understandably :D--removed that). TiVo has been working with the advertisers, on ways to deal with the problem while still allowing the ads to be FF'd over. They're putting in code to bring up banner advertising underneath the visible sped-up stream, as encoded in some of the ads being skipped over. Stuff like "Check out of the new Escape at your Ford dealer today".
Bandwidth with very loose latency is the cheapest kind, and bandwidth in general gets cheaper very quickly.Yeah, but what I understood you to be talking about was expensive, very large chunks of bandwidth (for HD programming at least) dedicated to downloading a buffer into local store, allocated temporarily to every user on the network who's just starting to watch a saved program, which could be many thousands of people on a network of any size. And making bandwidth more plentiful, and thereby less precious, generally requires massive upgrades to the network backbone.
What would help is if the backend was fairly responsive so once we hit FF the backend skips forward instead of attempting to plow through what we want to skip. People are very intolerant of waiting on interfaces, so maybe it won't work, personally I prefer a local box anyway.Well, skipping over large chunks wouldn't have to stream any of the intervening content, but I want to use 30-times FF as soon as I get into the vicinity of what I'm looking for. I also prefer a local box; if my system puts something like this in place and peformance is unacceptable, they'll force me to buy a TiVo.
I don't think Cablecos are going to be able to get away with older boxes, but time will tell.I think that any of the deployed non-DVR boxes that they're using today which are capable of VOD are capable of this. It's just a SMOP :).
I predict within 3 years we will start to see STRONG competition for a All in One box, TV/Cable, DVR, Phone, Games, and basic PC.Could be, but I doubt that any significant percentage of customers will need or desire that. I know that I'm not interested; something breaks in that monster and your phone service and a major source of entertainment are all gone until you can get it fixed. Not cool.

It's a little more difficult than that - unless I'm missing something, when you use the HDMI out on the 8300, it disables the ability to select any other output. It only allows 1080i. When I disconnect the HDMI to DVI cable, I can select outher outputs and I did try that - and there's no question that SD using a 480i signal to the Runco's component input that uses the Runco's scaler looks far better than SD upconverted by the 8300 transmitted over the HDMI to DVI channel. Problem is I can't figure out an easy way to change between the two, since the STB is so inflexible ...

I have my 8300HD connected to the TV using the HDMI port and can select all output formats from the Settings menu. I use 480P and 1080i for my particular setup and it works perfectly.

You should be able to select whatever output formats you want with HDMI connected.

I agree with Chris Fox, and know that the various reolutions are being passed over HDMI as I have checked that with my scaler which will show the input resolution being received.

I agree with Chris Fox, and know that the various reolutions are being passed over HDMI as I have checked that with my scaler which will show the input resolution being received.

Huh. Are you guys both in New York and both using TW? Because I cannot select any signal output except 1080i when the HDMI port is in use. I have tried it over and over - and I WAS able to select various outputs when I disconnected the HDMI to DVI cable and just used component. Even when I left the additional outputs selected the box reverted to 1080i only when I plugged the HDMI to DVI cable back in. And I called TW before I ever posted anything on this board, and they told me that I could only use 1080i with the HDMI port. Which is ridiculous. I don't understand how you're able to do it ....

Are you saying "change between" them to mean "use the component video for 480i and the HDMI for 1080i"? Is the quality of 1080i (possibly scaled from 720p by the STB then scaled again by your Runco back to 720p) is that much superior to the component out? If you use component, you could tell the box that your television can handle 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i and it would send all the formats to your television without internal scaling; you'd certainly think that 720p (ABC, Fox, ESPN HD) would look a bit better than they would scaled to 1080i and then scaled back to 720p.

Well, this is a different bit of the problem - the processor the Runco uses with the component input only accepts 480i. Which is also absurd - they say that will be different with future models but that doesn't help me. I could go component to VGA with a breakout cable, but then I don't get the advantage of the Runco's scaler for the 480i signals ...

Huh. Are you guys both in New York and both using TW? Because I cannot select any signal output except 1080i when the HDMI port is in use. I have tried it over and over - and I WAS able to select various outputs when I disconnected the HDMI to DVI cable and just used component. Even when I left the additional outputs selected the box reverted to 1080i only when I plugged the HDMI to DVI cable back in. And I called TW before I ever posted anything on this board, and they told me that I could only use 1080i with the HDMI port. Which is ridiculous. I don't understand how you're able to do it ....

I think this may be a recent problem - not sure if it's related to newly issued boxes or possibly different software - but it seems that a bunch of people have recently reported (if not in this post then in the NYC thread) that they can only get 1080i to work via HDMI.

I can get the other output formats to work on both of my 8300's (like the other posters above) and I am in NY too so there is definitely something weird going on here.

I think this may be a recent problem - not sure if it's related to newly issued boxes or possibly different software - but it seems that a bunch of people have recently reported (if not in this post then in the NYC thread) that they can only get 1080i to work via HDMI.

I can get the other output formats to work on both of my 8300's (like the other posters above) and I am in NY too so there is definitely something weird going on here.

Well, let me know if you give up on TW or move to CT and want to swap one of your 8300s for mine ... :cool:

Always take too long replying...I think jmax has some TV input limitations complicating things. This (http://www.runco.com/image/manuals/current_manuals/CW-43-CW-50MC_11-08-04.pdf) is the manual I found for the given model designation.
It seems to have:
<snip long input list and limits from manual>
jmax,
If you want to try component HD, the question may be will the TV accept 720p/1080i Y/Pb/Pr input into the HD-15 connector and how to construct or purchase an appropriate adapter/cord (RCA to HD-15). I could go component to VGA with a breakout cable, but then I don't get the advantage of the Runco's scaler for the 480i signals ...Maybe your best bet is to use the Component/HD-15 adapter on INPUT1, and the S-Video cable on INPUT3.

Eliminating HDMI should allow all output formats.
Then you should be able to select both 480i and 720p/1080i.
Use the TV remote to switch between INPUT1 and INPUT3.
---Careful to switch to INPUT3 before switching to SD
---And switch to HD channel before switching to INPUT1
---In case 480i to VGA could potentially break something.

Then the 8300HD should be free to put out unmolested SD over S-Video for the TV to scale, instead of 1080i down-converted to Letter-Boxed SD because HDMI fixed the resolution.

v/r,
C-F

Always take too long replying...Maybe your best bet is to use the Component/HD-15 adapter on INPUT1, and the S-Video cable on INPUT3.

Eliminating HDMI should allow all output formats.
Then you should be able to select both 480i and 720p/1080i.
Use the TV remote to switch between INPUT1 and INPUT3.
---Careful to switch to INPUT3 before switching to SD
---And switch to HD channel before switching to INPUT1
---In case 480i to VGA could potentially break something.

Then the 8300HD should be free to put out unmolested SD over S-Video for the TV to scale, instead of 1080i down-converted to Letter-Boxed SD because HDMI fixed the resolution.

v/r,
C-F

Thanks ... why would 480i to VGA be a problem?

It may not.

Just being careful since the component board is limited to 480i, there might be limitations on the other inputs.

I have killed a PC monitor when swapping out computers -- the old computer had the monitor signal set up for a nice big high-dollar monitor and [the wrong/high frequency] killed the old small monitor when I went to set it up for reuse.

v/r,
C-F

I live in FL and I definately get all resolutions over HDMI. I am on software release 1.8.112 of passport

The issue may be what the Runco tells the 8300 what resolution it can handle via HDMI.

It may not.

Just being careful since the component board is limited to 480i, there might be limitations on the other inputs.

I have killed a PC monitor when swapping out computers -- the old computer had the monitor signal set up for a nice big high-dollar monitor and [the wrong/high frequency] killed the old small monitor when I went to set it up for reuse.

v/r,
C-F

Ah. No, that's not a problem - Runco told me all the inputs are passthrough except for the component and the composite/S-video (the second one is a switched input; you can have composite or S-video, but not both) - those two are limited to 480i because they are handled by the 480i to 720p upconverter. But everything else is passthrough. Which means I should disconnect the HDMI to DVI and just use the compoment to VGA for everything.

The issue may be what the Runco tells the 8300 what resolution it can handle via HDMI.

No, it's not that - Runco said it wasn't that, and I confirmed that by trying HDMI to DVI on another set and the output was still limited to 1080i. Plus, TW told me I could only use 1080i with HDMI.

No, it's not that - Runco said it wasn't that, and I confirmed that by trying HDMI to DVI on another set and the output was still limited to 1080i. Plus, TW told me I could only use 1080i with HDMI.Have you stated what firmware revision your box is running yet? You can find it in the diagnostics. Some systems have a single-page diagnostic that'll will tell you the firmware rev and a few other things that you can get by tuning something in the 900s or 1000s (on my system it's 998). If you can't find that, follow the instructions at the bottom of this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722) post to enter the multi-page diags; hit the down arrow a couple of times to get to the "Versions" page (not "Versions 2", below it). The first line should give you the Passport Echo revision.

My system is currently using Passport Echo 2.5.041, but the "officially blessed" revision is supposedly 1.8.112.

Also, where in CT do you live and what TWC system do you use? Is it some close by southern NY system? TWC doesn't seem to have a system in CT.

I have my 8300HD connected to the TV using the HDMI port and can select all output formats from the Settings menu. I use 480P and 1080i for my particular setup and it works perfectly.

You should be able to select whatever output formats you want with HDMI connected.
HDMI/DVI will only pass 480p, 720p, and 1080i resolutions, but it will not relay SD 480i content. 480i SD is always upscaled to one of the supported resolutions by the STB before transmission over HDMI or DVI interface.

Huh. Are you guys both in New York and both using TW? Because I cannot select any signal output except 1080i when the HDMI port is in use. I have tried it over and over - and I WAS able to select various outputs when I disconnected the HDMI to DVI cable and just used component. Even when I left the additional outputs selected the box reverted to 1080i only when I plugged the HDMI to DVI cable back in. And I called TW before I ever posted anything on this board, and they told me that I could only use 1080i with the HDMI port. Which is ridiculous. I don't understand how you're able to do it ....

Do you know the Passport software version from the diagnostic menu? If so, then please post it. If not, can someone please tell him the channel in NY for seeing the diagnostic menu? Here in Raleigh I'm on 2.5.048, which is a recent update. I can set all outputs over both HDMI and Component.

I'll check the firmware version when I get home ...and I live in NYC - I was making a joke - I was saying if YOU move to CT, I'll take one of your 8300 boxes that allows output other than 1080i over HDMI to DVI ...

Do you know the Passport software version from the diagnostic menu? If so, then please post it. If not, can someone please tell him the channel in NY for seeing the diagnostic menu? Here in Raleigh I'm on 2.5.048, which is a recent update. I can set all outputs over both HDMI and Component.

Ditto, as I posted earlier, in TWC Raleigh-Durham, you can select all the output formats with HDMI (I'm also currently on 2.5.048, but could select all outputs with the previous software as well).

Ditto, as I posted earlier, in TWC Raleigh-Durham, you can select all the output formats with HDMI (I'm also currently on 2.5.048, but could select all outputs with the previous software as well).
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure HDMI cannot output 480i. I have NEVER seen a device which can transmit 480i over HDMI or DVI. Perhaps you can select the resolution, but the STB is probably upconverting it to 480p. Can you view an SD program and have your TV tell you exactly which resolution it is currently displaying?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure HDMI cannot output 480i. I have NEVER seen a device which can transmit 480i over HDMI or DVI. Perhaps you can select the resolution, but the STB is probably upconverting it to 480p. Can you view an SD program and have your TV tell you exactly which resolution it is currently displaying?
Consider yourself corrected...
Every PASSPORT software version I've ever used could output all four resolutions via HDMI/DVI.
Which I've verified via channel status display at HDTV.

I haven't tried viewing 480i over HDMI so I can't comment on how it handles the actual output, but it is selectable in the Settings menu of my SA8300HD.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure HDMI cannot output 480i. I have NEVER seen a device which can transmit 480i over HDMI or DVI. Perhaps you can select the resolution, but the STB is probably upconverting it to 480p. Can you view an SD program and have your TV tell you exactly which resolution it is currently displaying?

The HDMI spec allows 480i. However, that doesnt mean that the 8300 or any other device has to support it. My recollection is that DVI spec didnt allow 480i but I cannot cite proof.

In my diag screen, the SATA connection says: AUTHORIZED
Does this mean the SATA port is enabled now???? Anyone else out there at this revision and have SATA working? What bugs did this fix?? The Black Bars glitch? The dolby digital glitch? Just wondering....

In my diag screen, the SATA connection says: AUTHORIZED
Does this mean the SATA port is enabled now???? Anyone else out there at this revision and have SATA working? What bugs did this fix?? The Black Bars glitch? The dolby digital glitch? Just wondering....
:rolleyes:

In my diag screen, the SATA connection says: AUTHORIZED
Does this mean the SATA port is enabled now???? Anyone else out there at this revision and have SATA working? What bugs did this fix?? The Black Bars glitch? The dolby digital glitch? Just wondering....pepar rolls his eyes because we had a long discussion of the state of SATA support in Passport Echo back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7387787&highlight=SATA#post7387787), when Raleigh/Durham rolled out 2.5.048. When those folks hooked up SATA drives, the box would store recordings on it, but trick-play (PAUSE, REWIND, FF, etc) while watching live programming was broken (you still had trick-play when watching recordings). So, at least in that rev, SATA support was not ready.

pepar rolls his eyes because we had a long discussion of the state of SATA support in Passport Echo back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7387787&highlight=SATA#post7387787), when Raleigh/Durham rolled out 2.5.048. When those folks hooked up SATA drives, the box would store recordings on it, but trick-play (PAUSE, REWIND, FF, etc) while watching live programming was broken (you still had trick-play when watching recordings). So, at least in that rev, SATA support was not ready.
Yeah, that, too, but I was mostly rolling my eyes at the zero effort to read the thread on the part of the poster.

Consider yourself corrected...
Every PASSPORT software version I've ever used could output all four resolutions via HDMI/DVI.
Which I've verified via channel status display at HDTV.
I stand corrected, although it now baffles me why NO OTHER STB's support 480i over HDMI. It would be SO MUCH easier to view SD when using an HDMI connection to the STB for HD content, especially since we have not received the update on our Moxi's that support 480p, so all SD must be converted to 720p or 1080i for display over HDMI/DVI. Because of this, we just use component.

I'm fairly new to this DVR/STB stuff and have read several sections of this thread. I also
searched for a way to find out how much space I have used on my hard drive. The
information they gave me, at TWC, and the information I downloaded has a way to check it but the
"List" then "B" button doesn't give me this information, neither does "Settings" and "More
Settings". I searched this thread but did not find what I wanted. Is there a way to check
how much space I have used? I'm on TWC with a 8300HD box running the
Passport/Echo software I think, at least that's what flashed up when it rebooted on it's
own once.
Thanks

Here are instructions for bringing up Extended Diagnostic Pages:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6866450&#post6866450
Remaining AV File space is in one of the menus towards the bottom of the list.

off topic but I am in NYC with TW and an 8300. I never see HD PPV movies offered. Anyone know what the story is?

I stand corrected, although it now baffles me why NO OTHER STB's support 480i over HDMI. It would be SO MUCH easier to view SD when using an HDMI connection to the STB for HD content, especially since we have not received the update on our Moxi's that support 480p, so all SD must be converted to 720p or 1080i for display over HDMI/DVI. Because of this, we just use component.

To complicate things further, while the 8300 will output 480i over HDMI, depending on your cable system, very few channels will actually be 480i channels - most are converted to 480p by the 8300 anyway. In NYC, there are only a handful of 480i stations left so the 480p conversion is going to happen no matter what for everything else. My display (Samsung HLP5063) won't accept 480i over HDMI anyway so I had to disable this format. But 480p, 720p and 1080i work fine and look good (most of the time).

To complicate things further, while the 8300 will output 480i over HDMI, depending on your cable system, very few channels will actually be 480i channels - most are converted to 480p by the 8300 anyway. In NYC, there are only a handful of 480i stations left so the 480p conversion is going to happen no matter what for everything else. My display (Samsung HLP5063) won't accept 480i over HDMI anyway so I had to disable this format. But 480p, 720p and 1080i work fine and look good (most of the time).



Okay, checked the Passport version - it's 1.8.112. I don't suppose there's any easy way to get a firmware update.

Those of you who are able to output anything besides 1080i over HDMI, especially in NYC - what version are you using?

Okay, checked the Passport version - it's 1.8.112. I don't suppose there's any easy way to get a firmware update. Your cable company controls the firmware in your box 100%. You cannot update it in any way.

Your cable company controls the firmware in your box 100%. You cannot update it in any way.

I assumed as much - that's why I want to know what firmware is being used by folks who are able to pass signals in addition to 1080i over HDMI, especially in NYC. If some people have later revs, I can go to TWC and try to swap the box for one with a later version. I got the box from my dealer, so maybe what they had in house is just older ...

I assumed as much - that's why I want to know what firmware is being used by folks who are able to pass signals in addition to 1080i over HDMI, especially in NYC. If some people have later revs, I can go to TWC and try to swap the box for one with a later version. I got the box from my dealer, so maybe what they had in house is just older ...

TWCNYC has been running PP 1.8.112 for many months, across the entire system. I have 2 8300HDs, and both are able to pass 480p, 720p and 1080i to my displays via HDMI-HDMI and HDMI-DVI. Chances are that any inability to use a format other than 1080i with the 8300HD is imposed by the user's display, not the DVR.

My goal has always been (and still is) to have as full a digital path as possible to my display which is a DLP so its native operation is digital. I have that with the SA8300HD units (2 of them) and my cable company.

First of all, the software version I am using is Passport 1.8.112. The cable provider is Bright House Networks (BHN) on Merritt ISland in Brevard County FL. In my Area BHN runs an all digital cable except for the first 99 basic service channels which are in analog. They supply all of the locals in HD.

My configuration is wired so that the 8300's feed video to a DVDO VP30 scaler over HDMI, and audio from the 8300 Toslink output to the auxiliary Toslink inputs of the VP30. I have used the Audio feed over HDMI, bit have had some audio dropout problems (momentary 1-2 seconds) and total loss of audio in this mode on some DVR shuttle operations (FF,rev, FF...). It is an HDMI issue between the VP30 and the 8300.

The 8300 is set for its audio output to be HDMI (I need to check that tonight, it might be set to Dolby Digital), and the allowable video resolutions are set to all 4 (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). [UPDATE: I was running with the Audio Output setting at HDMI. I changed it to DD with no effect so I am leaving it there]

I have checked the resolution that the scaler is seeing on input (the scaler has a status info screen) and have seen 480p, 720p, and 1080i. I chose all 4 in the 8300 since I do not want the 8300 to do any scaling and I believe that is how you do that (wouldn't it be nice just to have an option for resolution called pass-through or "What I get is what you get").

The VP30 scales all inputs no matter how they come in (component, SDI, or HDMI) to 720p (if necessary) and the timings are set so that there is a 1:1 pixel mapping between the output of the VP30 and the Projector. The projector is set to do no scaling and just deal with the data for each pixel that is sent by the VP30. The projector is a Benq PE 8700 with its aspect ratio set to ANA to force 1:1 scaling, don't ask me why, but that is how you do it. Pixel mapping has been verified by test patterns put out by the VP30.

If the audio is coming in over HDMI, it is broken out by the VP30. Audio is then adjusted for lip sync and available as a Toslink output. I feed this output to a Lexicon MC-1 processor which constantly reports the audio signal type it sees (DTS, AC3(DD), PCM, Analog, 48K, etc.). If the audio stream is encoded (multichannel such as AC3 or DTS) it states the number of sub channels in the stream (e.g. 2.0 or 5.1).

I can definitely say that I have seen 480p, 720p, 1080i from the 8300. I do not recall having seen 480i. I can definitely say that I have seen Dolby Digital (AC-3) and I have seen it as 5.1 during main programs, and it generally switches to 2.0 during commercials.

The only confusing part of the 8300 settings for me have to do with the digital audio output. The choices are Dolby Digital, HDMI, or analog. According to what I read, the Setting of HDMI causes the 8300 to adjust the audio stream based upon what is reported by the downstream AV processor (in my case the VP30 scaler), the setting of dolby Digital to disregard what the HDMI handshake states and send the transmitted audio stream. It is my understanding that the Toslink output and what is on the HDMI cable will always be the same.

If I am wrong on any of this regarding the audio output settings, I would appreciate clarification. I am not wrong on any of the observed data, as it is what I observed being reported by some fairly high quality equipment and not subject to my interpretation.

I assumed as much - that's why I want to know what firmware is being used by folks who are able to pass signals in addition to 1080i over HDMI, especially in NYC. If some people have later revs, I can go to TWC and try to swap the box for one with a later version. I got the box from my dealer, so maybe what they had in house is just older ...

You should understand a couple of things about this software (be it Passport or SARA).

1) It is downloaded by the cable company when you first power up the box. While the cable companies can "target" a specific revision of this software to your DVR - it is usual that a particular revision is used system-wide.

2) There are a lot of system (by "system" I mean the rest of the cable system in your area) compatability considerations in determining the particular version/revision of software used. Often a newer version will be tested in a system in a Beta environment (a few staff members at first, then selected customers) until "bugs" are worked out. Even then, a large scale roll-out of a new version all to often results in customer complaints.

The only confusing part of the 8300 settings for me have to do with the digital audio output. The choices are Dolby Digital, HDMI, or analog. According to what I read, the Setting of HDMI causes the 8300 to adjust the audio stream based upon what is reported by the downstream AV processor (in my case the VP30 scaler), the setting of dolby Digital to disregard what the HDMI handshake states and send the transmitted audio stream. It is my understanding that the Toslink output and what is on the HDMI cable will always be the same.Your understanding of this is correct. This setting was added because previously, if you were using HDMI, it would always render the audio to accomodate the declared audio capabilities of the HDMI sink (unless it declared that it couldn't handle audio at all). So, if your display said that it could only handle 2.0, that's what would come out of HDMI and the other digital audio outputs, since the box only has a single audio processor. Many people don't want their display to output sound and want 5.1 out of Toslink or coax S/PDIF, if the program is in 5.1. Prior to the inclusion of this setting, HDMI users were forced to watch everything with 2.0 sound.

I got the box from my dealer, so maybe what they had in house is just older ... It may have been when they handed it to you and you took it home. As noted already though, as soon as you hooked it up, the version it had would be compared to the version the headend expects and if older, would be updated.

pepar rolls his eyes because we had a long discussion of the state of SATA support in Passport Echo back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7387787&highlight=SATA#post7387787), when Raleigh/Durham rolled out 2.5.048. When those folks hooked up SATA drives, the box would store recordings on it, but trick-play (PAUSE, REWIND, FF, etc) while watching live programming was broken (you still had trick-play when watching recordings). So, at least in that rev, SATA support was not ready.

I read those posts but was wondering if the version I just received fixed the trick play bugs. I did say I have 2.5.051 not the same as R/D's 2.5.048. Sorry I wasn't specific enough in my last post. Guess I'll have to hook up eSATA and find out for myself.

...very few channels will actually be 480i channels - most are converted to 480p by the 8300 anyway. In NYC, there are only a handful of 480i stations left so the 480p conversion is going to happen no matter what for everything else.Offered as evidence of change within revisions.

At one time, the indicator lamps on the front panel behaved this way here. The 480i lamp was only lit when first tuning to a SD channel, any use of the buffer (pause/FF/RW) or recording would cause a change to the 480p lamp, accompanied by the jump to the buffered (or recording) stream. Hitting the Live button did not return to [live] 480i, but changing the channel would. There was a slight change in the picture, but the move from live to the buffer prevented me from separating any differences between 480i/480p from molestations from the buffering. I definitely remember recording SciFi Fridays on one tuner, and watching the other in real-time (to get as much PQ from that channel...).

Following some other question within the last ~7 days, I checked and this behavior does not occur anymore here. The 480i lamp remains lit all the time on basic channels. I believe it does so for most digitals, but I will have to verify later.

TWC-KC
1.8.112
Component
32" 4:3 CRT TV with WIDE mode
Caveat: aspect ratios have not worked correctly here on the Pioneer, 8000HD, or 8300HD.

I know of no [~easy & cheap] way for me to verify the output signal.

v/r,
C-F

To complicate things further, while the 8300 will output 480i over HDMI, depending on your cable system, very few channels will actually be 480i channels - most are converted to 480p by the 8300 anyway. In NYC, there are only a handful of 480i stations left so the 480p conversion is going to happen no matter what for everything else. My display (Samsung HLP5063) won't accept 480i over HDMI anyway so I had to disable this format. But 480p, 720p and 1080i work fine and look good (most of the time).

Unless I am very wrong, most of the SD channels I get from TWC NYC are 480i as indicated by both the 8300HD AND my Panasonic TH-37PX60U. This is via HDMI.


Okay, checked the Passport version - it's 1.8.112. I don't suppose there's any easy way to get a firmware update.

Those of you who are able to output anything besides 1080i over HDMI, especially in NYC - what version are you using?

My version in NYC is the same and I have verified that I output all the formats over HDMI.

TWCNYC has been running PP 1.8.112 for many months, across the entire system. I have 2 8300HDs, and both are able to pass 480p, 720p and 1080i to my displays via HDMI-HDMI and HDMI-DVI. Chances are that any inability to use a format other than 1080i with the 8300HD is imposed by the user's display, not the DVR.

I don't know what to say. I spoke to Runco directly and they said the DVI input accepts 480p, 720p and 1080i. I spoke to TWCNYC and they said the 8300 will only output 1080i through HDMI. I connected the 8300 to the HDMI input of a different display (a small Sharp LCD) and I still was not able to select any output besides HDMI. When I use component only, it's no problem selecting other outputs.

Offered as evidence of change within revisions.

At one time, the indicator lamps on the front panel behaved this way here. The 480i lamp was only lit when first tuning to a SD channel, any use of the buffer (pause/FF/RW) or recording would cause a change to the 480p lamp, accompanied by the jump to the buffered (or recording) stream. Hitting the Live button did not return to [live] 480i, but changing the channel would. There was a slight change in the picture, but the move from live to the buffer prevented me from separating any differences between 480i/480p from molestations from the buffering. I definitely remember recording SciFi Fridays on one tuner, and watching the other in real-time (to get as much PQ from that channel...).

Following some other question within the last ~7 days, I checked and this behavior does not occur anymore here. The 480i lamp remains lit all the time on basic channels. I believe it does so for most digitals, but I will have to verify later.

TWC-KC
1.8.112
Component
32" 4:3 CRT TV with WIDE mode
Caveat: aspect ratios have not worked correctly here on the Pioneer, 8000HD, or 8300HD.

I know of no [~easy & cheap] way for me to verify the output signal.

v/r,
C-F

Very interesting. I actually have 480i disabled since my display can't receive it over HDMI. So I guess I wouldn't have any way of verifying whether my system behaves this way (with most SD channels at 480i) unless I unplugged HDMI and used component. If I get a chance this weekend, maybe I'll give it a shot. Unless someone else in NYC wants to chime in.

Could be a difference in hardware revisions--there's an "HW Ver" item on the "Hardware" page of the diags. (I'd also expect some kind of version number to be located on a tag on the body of the device somewhere).

Here are instructions for bringing up Extended Diagnostic Pages:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6866450&#post6866450
Remaining AV File space is in one of the menus towards the bottom of the list.

Thanks. I got in using the button sequence on the front of the unit. The remote method
would not work. I was a little surprised at how much I had used up.

Thanks. I got in using the button sequence on the front of the unit. The remote method
would not work. I was a little surprised at how much I had used up.You're right--the sequence for entering the multi-page diags must be entered using the buttons on the front panel, though you can re-enter it at any time by either pressing the front-panel EXIT button, or by tuning the diag channel with the remote. (You can find out what channel this is by pressing the INFO button on the remote while the diags are on the screen; on my local system it's 611). The diags will remain available on that channel until you reboot the system.

You might want to check out the Passport Tips and Tricks (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722) post.

Recently, I had the diags up on the screen and without switching from them, I started watching a recording; when the program ended, I brought up the Guide without stopping playback. While I was looking at the guide, playback reached the end of the recording, when it would normally pop up the "Do you want to erase this now?" dialog. Instead, it switched what was in the inset on the Guide to a scaled view of the "Saved Recordings" page. When I hit the button to go to "Saved Recordings" it came up, but with a scaled view of itself in the inset, which had a tinier version of itself in its inset (the inset of the innermost version was blank and gray). Sort of like video feedback without a camera :).

It's a wonder that it didn't crash.

I think the Channel tuning of the diag channel only works until the next reboot of the system

I think the Channel tuning of the diag channel only works until the next reboot of the systemThat's what I said. For me that can be weeks, and I always re-enable diags after a manual or automatic reboot (due to a firmware push).

I got in the habit of having diags enabled all the time because I used to use the DVR AVFS page to keep a running log of the filesizes of every program that I watched, for estimated bitrate calculations (I have a Excel sheet that's automatically updated from a text file).

I think the Channel tuning of the diag channel only works until the next reboot of the system
In all current and earlier versions of SA8300HD, SA3250HD and Pace DC-550,
the Extended Diagnostics remained enabled until pressing the OFF key on either the R/C or the front panel.

Of course, on SciAtl STB's "OFF" is actually "Off-Line", since they are always burning electricity at a fast clip....

Of course, on SciAtl STB's "OFF" is actually "Off-Line", since they are always burning electricity at a fast clip....
Is that still the case with v.043 allowing powering down the internal drive with the STB?

Is that still the case with v.043 allowing powering down the internal drive with the STB?
Check it yourself with a **hot hot hot** touch test.

Check it yourself with a **hot hot hot** touch test.
I can do that nest week when I get home from this biz trip. You think the drive is not stopping, or the STB's electronics are still burning watts?

I set mine to power down with power off, whatever the option is a few days ago, so far no issues other than "maybe" a bit of delay when I turn it on, but nothing really noticable, and all recordings happen fine.

I just gave it a feel and the whole chassis is cool to the touch, with just a bit of warmth, not heat, detectable over the middle left.

My Diagnostic page is 199, but I have NEVER gotten anything to work pushing buttons on the remote or the front panel (regarding diagnostic display). Settings show up fine.

Maybe tomorrow I will give the tips thread another read.

IMy Diagnostic page is 199, but I have NEVER gotten anything to work pushing buttons on the remote or the front panel (regarding diagnostic display). Settings show up fine.Do you mean that holding down SEL+EXIT on the front panel until "DIAGNO" appears in the LEDs won't bring up the multi-page diagnostic? And when you say "my diagnostic page is 199" are you referring to the single-page version (it's at 998 on my system)?

SEL+EXIT never bring up anything yet, and yes 199 is the single page.

When I tried it a few min ago, power was on, and I tried two ways;

Bring up the Settings, then advanced, but pressing exit on front panel or remote with or without sel at the same time just exits. ;(

Same without the setting screen up.

I'll mess with it more when I wake up in the morning.

SEL+EXIT never bring up anything yet, and yes 199 is the single page.

When I tried it a few min ago, power was on, and I tried two ways;

Bring up the Settings, then advanced, but pressing exit on front panel or remote with or without sel at the same time just exits. ;(

Same without the setting screen up.

I'll mess with it more when I wake up in the morning.
Just a thought - the SEL & EXIT uttons need to be held for several seconds before DIAG appears and, on my system, a bell rings. Then I need to release them and press them again to get to the screens. Have you tried holding the two buttons?

May not be the best place to post this, but HDMI has been much discussed (disgust?) on this thread, so here it it. The Inquirer has a piece entitled "Big three PC firms give backing to Displayport (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31437)" that leads off with "HP, DELL and Lenovo said they are backing the Displayport 1.0 digital display interface standard created by the Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA). It will compete with HDMI."

It seems natural to me that the computer industry would want an "interface of their own" and HDMI's faltering is probably an accelerant. Give it a read and it will probably impact all of A/V, or at least the "V."

Back to the connectivity issues.

SA8300HD running into VP30 scaler with audio coming from Toslink and video over HDMI.

I changed my SA8300 audio output to Dolby Digital from HDMI as according to the documentation that should be the setting to disregard HDMI received data when formatting the Audio. While watching a prerecorded program the audio, after a FF/RV/FF to skip a commercial, went from DD 5.1 to 48KHZ stereo PCM. In order to get it back correctly I had to switch the audio output type back to HDMI. It then came back as DD 5.1. I suspect there was some mis-communication between the SA8300 and the VP30 over the HDMI cable.

BUT, I had audio output set to Dolby Digital which, according to what I read should have disregarded what the HDMI cable reported when handling audio. I am now thinking of putting both SA8300's back to HDMI for Audio Output type, but clearly am confused. Perhaps the documentation is incorrect or only applies to SARA systems since that is where I think I read it

Comments? Thoughts?

Back to the connectivity issues.

SA8300HD running into VP30 scaler with audio coming from Toslink and video over HDMI.

I changed my SA8300 audio output to Dolby Digital from HDMI as according to the documentation that should be the setting to disregard HDMI received data when formatting the Audio. While watching a prerecorded program the audio, after a FF/RV/FF to skip a commercial, went from DD 5.1 to 48KHZ stereo PCM. In order to get it back correctly I had to switch the audio output type back to HDMI. It then came back as DD 5.1. I suspect there was some mis-communication between the SA8300 and the VP30 over the HDMI cable.


Comments? Thoughts?

I think Dolby Digital is the right setting but then of course you are susceptible to the "ding bug" - basically whenever the 8300 generates a pop-up message w/ the "ding" sound (e.g. when you have two recordings scheduled at the same time and you are currently watching a 3rd channel), you lose 5.1 sound and get PCM. You need to go into the menus and change the setting from Dolby Digital to HDMI and then right back to Dolby Digital and then 5.1 kicks in again. A bit of an annoyance but doesn't happen very often. Pretty widespread problem.

Now it doesn't sound like this is exactly what happened to you, as you were just FF'ing but just something to be aware of. Based on your setup though, I would imagine Dolby Digital is the right setting, but if HDMI works w/o issues then go w/ that. I personally can't use HDMI b/c my display (I don't use an outboard scaler) won't accept 5.1 and therefore I'm stuck w/ PCM all the time. So I use the Dolby Digital setting and just deal w/ the ding bug.

The closest thing I have seen to the ding item is a window showing the current buffer progress. I do not recall a ding sound. This happens periodically but generally on the hour or half hour, and might be related to a recording starting. However the window contents always pertains to what I am watching

Just a thought - the SEL & EXIT uttons need to be held for several seconds before DIAG appears and, on my system, a bell rings. Then I need to release them and press them again to get to the screens.Only the EXIT button has to be pressed again. While the diags are enabled, either tuning their channel or pressing EXIT on the front panel will display them.

Pressing EXIT on the front panel can be done to display them at any time, even when both tuners are engaged in making recordings. Getting rid of the DIAG display after that without messing with the tuners or playing a recording can be tricky :). You can force it to become invisible with repeated presses of the A button, but you won't be able to use trick-play controls.
It seems natural to me that the computer industry would want an "interface of their own" and HDMI's faltering is probably an accelerant. Give it a read and it will probably impact all of A/V, or at least the "V."It is inconceivable that DisplayPort will replace HDMI, which is part of the plug-and-play DTV-over-cable agreement and should now be present on all new Digital Cable Ready televisions by FCC regulation. I can see where television manufacturers might start including it in addition to HDMI, just as they've often included VESA D-SUB connectors for computer-compatible RGBHV. It would take years and years for the FCC to ever make DisplayPort a requirement. Also, I don't think that there's anything basically wrong with HDMI. There will be interoperability problems with initial implementations of DisplayPort as well.

DisplayPort has significantly higher throughput than the most advanced HDMI spec (over 10 Gbps); currently HDMI could not support the highest resolutions available on computer displays today. However, I think that some portion of the computer industry's reason for rejecting HDMI lies in the desire for a standard which belongs to a consortium of computer OEMs, for which they wouldn't have to pay licensing. (Of course, implementations with HDCP will have to license that).

Comparison of DisplayPort to DVI and HDMI can be found here:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/VESADisplayPort.php
Note that DisplayPort only requires a connector with 2 to 8 pins,
whereas HDMI Type A uses 19 pin connector....and higher speed Type B has 29 pins.
Hence the connector could be much smaller....and presumably will overcome HDMI's lack of a locking mechanism.
I don't see the spec on VESA's website yet ---but something simpler than HDMI should be possible for transfering Deep Color.

Note the expectation that the DisplayPort encryption will be in "trusted" software,
rather than in unique HDMI interface chips available only from one vendor (Silicon Image):
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1813963,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

More info on DisplayPort:
http://www.vesa.org/press/displayportaug.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

Looks like my area rec'd 2.5.051 in the past day or so. I would never have known 'til I went to unlock a channel for the kids and it asked me if I wanted to unlock just the one channel or all channels (we have A LOT of channels blocked to keep the kids from watching TV 24 hours a day .... any channel they're interested in, even something like Nickelodean, is blocked).

The DIAG menu has an SATA and MR-DVR page added, but I see nothing else too interesting yet.

What user features have others found with this version (or anything since 1.8.112 .... quite a jump we made) ?

The DIAG menu has an SATA and MR-DVR page added, but I see nothing else too interesting yet.
Yeah, you're right; no one here would be interested in the added SATA page. :D

Since I don't have an external SATA drive, it *really* doesn't interest me. :D If I had one, it might be a different story, of course. I know others, San Diego, for example, have had this version for quite a while.

Note the expectation that the DisplayPort encryption will be in "trusted" software, rather than in unique HDMI interface chips available only from one vendor (Silicon Image)."Trusted software". It's gonna take one hell of a processor to apply encryption to a 10 Gbps stream in realtime or to decrypt it. No PC on the market could do it running flat out and certainly no general purpose embedded processor chip that I know of. Without using custom silicon, interfaces for DisplayPort could be horribly expensive. I can see where they'd want to make it multi-source, though.

I know others, San Diego, for example, have had this version for quite a while.Naw--we've had .041 for a while, 10 point releases back from that one (not that all of the intervening ones necessarily saw the light of day :)). A few days ago, someone said that they'd been pushed .053--that's the highest I've heard of.

EDIT: I searched the thread and I think that the person I was talking about (netwrkd) was actually running .048. Hall, I think that you're the new avant-garde :).

"Trusted software". It's gonna take one hell of a processor to apply encryption to a 10 Gbps stream in realtime or to decrypt it. No PC on the market could do it running flat out and certainly no general purpose embedded processor chip that I know of. Without using custom silicon, interfaces for DisplayPort could be horribly expensive. I can see where they'd want to make it multi-source, though.

Perhaps the trusted software will be responsible for establishment of the 'keys' with the actual encrypt/decrypt done in HW based on those keys?

Just a thought - the SEL & EXIT uttons need to be held for several seconds before DIAG appears and, on my system, a bell rings. Then I need to release them and press them again to get to the screens. Have you tried holding the two buttons?

Bingo, held down til the beep, pressed again and up came channel 1999 with like 20 pages of diagnostic info, found out I have 26 GB of free space free and 120 used.

Thanks a bunch Pepar.

EDIT: I searched the thread and I think that the person I was talking about (netwrkd) was actually running .048. Hall, I think that you're the new avant-garde . Well, if anyone wants to send me their external SATA drive to test it on my box, I'll do so gladly. :)

Naw--we've had .041 for a while, 10 point releases back from that one (not that all of the intervening ones necessarily saw the light of day :)). A few days ago, someone said that they'd been pushed .053--that's the highest I've heard of.

EDIT: I searched the thread and I think that the person I was talking about (netwrkd) was actually running .048. Hall, I think that you're the new avant-garde :).

Actually, I am running 2.5.051 not .048, I just checked again. (Diags Ch1999 TWC in Hudson Valley)

Got a problem with your HDMI Switcher???

Audioholics is pointing the finger at Scientific Atlanta and Motorola STB/DVRs:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21194

Of course, the cable companies still don't admit to supporting the Sec 76.640 Federally Mandated DVI/HDMI (and Firewire) interfaces:

(ii) Effective July 1, 2005, include both a DVI or HDMI interface and an
IEEE 1394 interface on all high definition set-top boxes acquired by a cable
operator for distribution to customers.

Item (ii) in Holl_ands post points to the many holes and loopholes installed by politically focused FCC staff.

1) July 1 2005 is long past, is there an enforcement provision? If so why isn't it being executed?

2) It only speaks to boxes acquired by a cable company after 7/1/05, prior stock is fine to give to customers. No retrofit is required

3) It does not state that the cable company must be able to process the data from these interfaces, merely that the interfaces shall exist.

4) Does the interface include the data that the box is to put there or are we just saying the connector must exist.

I am in my mid 60's and do not believe I will live to see this or the Blu-ray / HD fiasco resolved. My system uses a VP30 scaler, which is is an HDMI/HDCP repeater, and with all its problems, it apperas to do a better job than all of the receivers out there. I have switched to separate chains for video and audio after the VP 30. The video from the scaler goes to the BENQ PE8700 projector via it's DVI input over a DVI cable with an HDMI/DVI adapter connecting the VP30 to the cable. The Audio from the scaler goes directly to a Lexicon MC-1 AVP which no longer processes any video. Perhaps someday I will get the new Bryston audio processor.

The VP30 is fed by two SA8300HD DVR's over HDMI with the audio coming from the SA8300HD Optical output. The VP30 also gets other HDMI inputs and Component inputs. This was done because of dropout problems with audio over HDMI.

Focusing on the SA8300HD, my biggest problem is reboots. I have noticed that the resolution indicator on the SA8300HD sometimes starts flashing. It generally stops after a couple of seconds, but once in a while it decides to reboot. This happens both when the scaler is in standby, Is powered up, with a SA8300HD selected or not. My understanding is that this flashing is an indication of a loss or failure in the HDMI/HDCP handshake.

My next issue is the L shaped black areas I see sometimes when switching inputs. I would really like to know how to resolve this via a workaround. Do I need to standby/power cycle the SA8300 each time I switch it, i.e. when I delect it put it in standby, when I select it take it out of standby? The fact that this is a known common problem and not yet fixed leaves little hope (IMHO) for some of the more complicated HDMI/HDCP problems related to audio loss and dropout.

I am looking forward and hoping that the TiVo series 3 cablecard DVR' will get it right!

Item (ii) in Holl_ands post points to the many holes and loopholes installed by politically focused FCC staff.

1) July 1 2005 is long past, is there an enforcement provision? If so why isn't it being executed?

2) It only speaks to boxes acquired by a cable company after 7/1/05, prior stock is fine to give to customers. No retrofit is required

3) It does not state that the cable company must be able to process the data from these interfaces, merely that the interfaces shall exist.

4) Does the interface include the data that the box is to put there or are we just saying the connector must exist.Point by point:

1) It's not clear that the HDMI part isn't being enforced; I'm not sure about 1394.

2) Yeah--there's nothing in the law stating that they have to give the customer a box with the interfaces.

3) Actually, it does. The paragraph beneath the one that holl_ands quoted cites a list of engineering standards to which the interfaces must comply (well, at least the 1394 part). Code of Federal Regulations Title 47, Part §76.640 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=64c478a920fdbbd6268e8635a9058200&rgn=div8&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4.11.3.15&idno=47)(b)(4)(iii):
(iii) Ensure that these cable operator-provided high definition set-top boxes shall comply with ANSI/SCTE 26 2001 (formerly DVS 194): “Home Digital Network Interface Specification with Copy Protection” (incorporated by reference, see §76.602), with transmission of bit-mapped graphics optional, and shall support the CEA–931–A: “Remote Control Command Pass-through Standard for Home Networking” (incorporated by reference, see §76.602), pass through control commands: tune function, mute function, and restore volume function. In addition these boxes shall support the power control commands (power on, power off, and status inquiry) defined in A/VC Digital Interface Command Set General Specification Version 4.0 (as referenced in ANSI/SCTE 26 2001 (formerly DVS 194): “Home Digital Network Interface Specification with Copy Protection” (incorporated by reference, see §76.602)).4) My reading of it is that it requires that the interfaces be working. The plug-and-play DTV-over-cable agreement, signed by the major CE OEMs and cable service providers (here (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf)), and upon which the codified regulations are based, certainly requires that the interfaces be included and working on the stated schedule.

I'm not a lawyer but these appear to be very carelessly drafted regulations, riddled with loopholes.

In any case, I've recently read that the blame for all of the HDMI problems is being laid on the STB manufacturers. If they can prove that they can't find vendors with equipment compatible with their headends which comply to the interface requirements, the cable providers can't really be blamed.

Mike,

We've gone over this before in one of these forums. And there are two points of view.

Para i states: i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade the customer's set-top box by download or other means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.

Note the term functional (which I highlighted in the quote) is in this para. The para ii) that you quoted DOES NOT REQUIRE these interfaces to be functional. If it did it would have used the very same term (functional) in para ii) that it used in para i).

The para iii) you cite simply states what standards these interfaces (if functional) must meet. It still does not require that all boxes shipped after 7/05 have those interfaces activated.

I'm not a lawyer either - but the "proof of the pudding" is that in many cases the IEEE interface on SA8300HDs are not (yet) functining!

RE: Your list link (thanks for it, by the way): At first reading it relates to "Customer Owned equipment, not to cable supplied equipment. I will be taking a closer look (perhaps you can point out a relevant section), but at first glance it does not seem to relate

Arguing whether the interface is functional or not is a red herring.
Neither the FCC nor the courts would accept an "existing, but not functional" argument.
The problem is enforcement---and lack thereof---
STB manuf will fix things when enough people complain---or alternatives push them out of business...

Arguing whether the interface is functional or not is a red herring.
Neither the FCC nor the courts would accept an "existing, but not functional" argument.
The problem is enforcement---and lack thereof---
STB manuf will fix things when enough people complain---or alternatives push them out of business...
The "market" seems to be accepting an interface - HDMI - that is not (completely) "functional." I would think that a misrepresentation - or fraud - case could be made by an activist consumer rights organization against the industry. Where's the outrage???

:rolleyes:

Arguing whether the interface is functional or not is a red herring.
Neither the FCC nor the courts would accept an "existing, but not functional" argument.
The problem is enforcement---and lack thereof---
STB manuf will fix things when enough people complain---or alternatives push them out of business...

It is not a "read herring"-it is a different interpretation. My contention remains that IF the FCC intended the interface to be "functional" (meaning cable customers could use it) as of 7/05, they would have stated that , as they did in the para preceeding. But they didn't! If a customer wants IEE 1394, the cable company is still only required to provide a box (not necessarily the box he has - or any box that the customer demands).

Well, try this: call your cable company and demand a 8300HD with a working IEEE 1394 port - citing the para ii). And then follow up with the FCC. Remember to report back on progress. ;)

Yeah, we went round and round about that and, as you know, I reject your interpretation, thoroughly. It would be absolutely moronic to require the presence of non-working connections on these cable STBs; by that reading, they could put connectors on which weren't even wired to the board and omit any actual circuitry on the board necessary to make the interface work. To me, if they wanted to say "include at minimum a cosmetic connector for such-and-such an interface" or "include all of the hardware necessary to make the STB comply to these interface standards at some time in the future when it's convenient to the service provider", they would have said exactly that. That a mandatory interface be "functional" should be implicit to any reasonable person reading the reg, whether the word "functional" appears or not. An interface that doesn't function isn't an interface.

As for the relavant section of the Second R&O and Second FNPR, you can find it at PDF page 12:
D. High Definition Set-Top Boxes
24. Cable subscribers owning unidirectional digital cable televisions or DTVmonitors that wish to receive advanced, interactive services will need a separate set-top box in order to do so. As a means of ensuring the connectivity of these devices, the proposed rules would obligate all cable operators, effective December 31, 2003, to replace or upgrade subscriber-leased high definition set-top boxes upon subscriber request to ensure that such boxes have “functional” 1394 interfaces. For these purposes, a “functional” 1394 means a 1394 interface with appropriate software support. Starting July 1, 2005, all high definition set-top boxes acquired by cable operators for distribution to subscribers would need to include a 1394 interface and either a Digital Visual Interface (“DVI”) or High Definition Multimedia Interface (“HDMI”). High definition set-top boxes provided to subscribers pursuant to these deadlines would also need to comply with certain technical standards. No comments were received objecting to these proposals. We believe that these interface and technical requirements will set a baseline for connectivity ensuring that cable subscribers are able to fully enjoy the range of services offered by their cable provider in a secure, digital format. As such, we adopt these high definition set-top box obligations and defer the December 31, 2003 obligation to April 1, 2004.The fact that some cable providers aren't providing boxes compliant to these interface requirements is proof of absolutely nothing. It took years and much effort on the part of consumers, some of whom described that effort in these forums, to stop their cable providers from encrypting rebroadcasts of over-the-air DTV, which the regulations forbid. Just as much effort was required to make them provide people who requested them with some form of digital STB with a 1394/DTCP interface, as required by CFR 47 §76.640(b)(4)(i), the paragraph above the two that we were talking about. I think that some cable providers don't even bother to read these regulations as they change, and that they're corporate offices don't necessarily send out guidelines to make the necessary changes to comply. If none of their customers complain, they can easily get away with it.

As I stated, in the case of HDMI there might not be equipment available to them which works properly--as long as they continue to make a good faith effort by working with their suppliers to acheive compliance, this can probably be excused.

By the way, the file that I cited above was the FCC Order that the agreement signed by the cable providers and CE OEMs be codified into the regs; the actual text of the agreement is here (http://www.1394ta.org/Download/Members/FCC/Final_Filing_Package_file_stamp4.PDF), including a scan of the cover-letter and the signatures. The parts relavant to this argument are on PDF page 13 ("3.6.2 MSO Commitments") and section 3.8 on PDF page 15.
Well, try this: call your cable company and demand a 8300HD with a working IEEE 1394 port - citing the para ii). And then follow up with the FCC. Remember to report back on progress. ;)As for that, they can just say that they don't have one, but wouldn't you rather have another kind of box with that interface (not necessarily a DVR). Nothing in the text of the law requires that they actually give you any particular box with a 1394/DTCP interface, just that all the ones that they buy after 1 July 2005 have one. CFR 47 §76.640(b)(4)(i) requires them to provide you with some STB with a 1394/DTCP interface, if you ask for one, but not with any particular model.

While I agree it might be moronic, I can see the FCC requiring certain connections simply to help wth future compatibility vs current use. My reasoning is that these documents were written before the software was available. It's very difficult to demand software that works be available at a given point in time, but if they don't require the connections, then they have a mess once the software is ready. Even with the existing box that satisfies the requirement, enforcement had to be somewhat flexible until the software was ready. And the term "ready" is somewhat subjective. :) The "current" 3250 software here actually breaks 1394, so they had to roll it back for those using 1394.

The info that I have downloaded and what they gave me at TWC says there used to be a "Copy To VCR" feature with these STB's, what happened to that feature are is there another way around so I can copy something while I watch something else? I have an 8300HD running Passport.

The info that I have downloaded and what they gave me at TWC says there used to be a "Copy To VCR" feature with these STB's, what happened to that feature are is there another way around so I can copy something while I watch something else? I have an 8300HD running Passport."Copy to VCR" is a feature of SARA, described on PDF page 29 of this (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdf) document; it was never in Passport. Does the documentation that you downloaded have the Scientific Atlanta logos on it?

I'm not impressed with the stability of 2.5.051 so far. That I know of, the box has either locked up hard or rebooted on it's own 3-4 times in the past few days. As I say, that I know of. With 1.8.112, I can't say the box ever did this. Sounds similar to what the folks in SD saw with 2.5.027 or so, as I recall.

About a month ago my SA8300HD got upgraded to the below version. This version allowed me to utilize an external SATA drive. Note I'm not here to debate whether or not SATA is supported or partially supported, etc.

----------------------------------------------------
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.5.048
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.69.1sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: March 20 2006, 1:19:47
OS Date: Dec 2, 2005, 6:31:08 PM
----------------------------------------------------

I then purchased a Netegriti 250GB external SATA drive. Everything seemed functional except the trick-play buffers....

After a month of the new setup, everything seems a-ok. No video glitches or any problems to report except the trick-play buffer issue. I'm very satisfied with the external SATA and I have to say I've grown attached to the extra 250G of space. I thought at first I might unhook the drive because of the loss of trick-play buffers but for me the extra drive space is more important.

Anyway, if the trick-play thing is fixed in a later version, that would be totally cool....

One side note.... Passport Version 2.5.048 has not locked up once since the upgrade. My previous passport versions were never that stable. Hopefully future versions maintain this level of stability.

About a month ago my SA8300HD got upgraded to the below version. This version allowed me to utilize an external SATA drive. Note I'm not here to debate whether or not SATA is supported or partially supported, etc.
...
I then purchased a Netegriti 250GB external SATA drive. Everything seemed functional except the trick-play buffers....

After a month of the new setup, everything seems a-ok. No video glitches or any problems to report except the trick-play buffer issue. I'm very satisfied with the external SATA and I have to say I've grown attached to the extra 250G of space. I thought at first I might unhook the drive because of the loss of trick-play buffers but for me the extra drive space is more important.

Anyway, if the trick-play thing is fixed in a later version, that would be totally cool....I'm glad that somebody appreciates the current state of SATA support in the latest versions :). Personally, I think that I'd miss trick-play of live television too much. Often, I turn the television on and something in progress on the last channel I'd tuned piques my interest and I use the buffering to go back and watch from the beginning, or hit REC and wait for it to save it.

98% of the time, I'm watching something recorded, so it might be worthwhile.
I'm not impressed with the stability of 2.5.051 so far. That I know of, the box has either locked up hard or rebooted on it's own 3-4 times in the past few days. As I say, that I know of. With 1.8.112, I can't say the box ever did this. Sounds similar to what the folks in SD saw with 2.5.027 or so, as I recall.Yeah--2.5.027 was a nightmare; I have no idea how it got out of Pioneer's testing, much less TWC's. At least with mobile phones, the service vendors' test process is typically much more thorough and time consuming than the equipment OEMs'.

Are you using HDMI? 2.5.041 seems to have lock-up problems for HDMI users in San Diego (I first heard the complaint from holl_ands).

"Copy to VCR" is a feature of SARA, described on PDF page 29 of this (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdf) document; it was never in Passport. Does the documentation that you downloaded have the Scientific Atlanta logos on it?

I downloaded everything I could find, about 10 pdf's. Most of them have the SA logo on them. So is there a work around for Passport software or am I just going to have to watch everything while I record with the DVD Recorder? Naturally I can switch to an OTA signal but it would be nice to be able to change channels with the SA and keep watching cable while recording.
Thanks

BTW: Mine is running Passport Echo: 1.8.095
OS Version: PowerTV 6.8.9.4sp

I downloaded everything I could find, about 10 pdf's. Most of them have the SA logo on them. So is there a work around for Passport software or am I just going to have to watch everything while I record with the DVD Recorder? Naturally I can switch to an OTA signal but it would be nice to be able to change channels with the SA and keep watching cable while recording.
Thanks

BTW: Mine is running Passport Echo: 1.8.095
OS Version: PowerTV 6.8.9.4spThe only "official" Passport documentation that I know of is this Getting Started Guide (http://www.pioneerdigital.com/pdf/passportecho1.6gettingstarted.pdf) at Pioneer Digital's site. It's for rev 1.6 so it's a bit stale. None of the SA manuals are applicable, except for maybe the diagrams on how to hook the box up to the rest of your equipment. The "Copy to VCR" function is just not implemented in Passport. Sorry.

EDIT: A little poking around and I found this (http://www.massilloncabletv.com/DVRGettingStarted.pdf) Getting Started Guide for Passport Echo V2.5.

My TV doesn't have HDMI, only DVI. I have used the HDMI connection off of the 8300 with an HDMI-to-DVI cable though.

OK you TWC/Passport 8300 DVR owners, here goes:
Recently started experiencing problems with box. First noticed the following anomaly: The "Audio Digital Out" selection in the "More Settings" menu layer disappeared. Called TWC and they put it back in. All was OK, until the following appeared a couple of days ago:

After turning set off for more than 5 minutes or so, and then turning back on, the following occurs: the video image has a "green cast" and the only way to get rid of it, is to deselect all of the "output resolution" settings, change channels and let the set resync to the box !

I believe this has to do with TWC recently uploading a new version of the Passport/ECHO software. Current version showing is 2.5.051.

This is really annoying and only happens when trying to use the HDMI output of the box. For reference I have a JVC DILA set, Model No. HD-61Z575. Never had any problems like this before and it does not occur when using component output of the box. My suspicion is that it has to do with a fault in the lastest Passport firmware "upgrade". Really wish these guys would leave things alone......don't do us any more favors !

Any one else notice this ? Thanks for replies in advance.

My TV doesn't have HDMI, only DVI. I have used the HDMI connection off of the 8300 with an HDMI-to-DVI cable though.You "have used" or you "are currently using"? I'm just suggesting that the use of DVI-or-HDMI/HDCP might be the cause of your lock-ups and reboots.

I have tried holding down select and exit at the same time to open the diagnostic menu. This has not worked. Is there another way to do this?

You didn't put a location in your profile, but are you sure you're using Passport software and not SARA? There are separate threads for each and they use different approaches to do a lot of things.

I have tried holding down select and exit at the same time to open the diagnostic menu. This has not worked. Is there another way to do this?
Hold them down longer. (With the box turned on.)

I have tried holding down select and exit at the same time to open the diagnostic menu. This has not worked. Is there another way to do this?

Hold them down with the set on until you hear a boing sound, release and press them again. Thats what worked for me, plus once that was done for some time I could just select channel 1999 and get the full pages of diagnostic displays.

You "have used" or you "are currently using"? I'm just suggesting that the use of DVI-or-HDMI/HDCP might be the cause of your lock-ups and reboots. I really don't know which I'm using at the moment. :) I'll check this afternoon.

I have tried holding down select and exit at the same time to open the diagnostic menu. This has not worked. Is there another way to do this? You push these buttons on the box itself, NOT ON THE REMOTE.

You push these buttons on the box itself, NOT ON THE REMOTE.
Gosh yes, that too. Really back to basics . . .

After turning set off for more than 5 minutes or so, and then turning back on, the following occurs: the video image has a "green cast" and the only way to get rid of it, is to deselect all of the "output resolution" settings, change channels and let the set resync to the box !

I believe this has to do with TWC recently uploading a new version of the Passport/ECHO software. Current version showing is 2.5.051.

This is really annoying and only happens when trying to use the HDMI output of the box. For reference I have a JVC DILA set, Model No. HD-61Z575.

ahhhh, now I know my TV isn't about to blow. Same setup, same issue. Switch it on occasionally and I get a green cast over HDMI. I just enable 480i and then disable it (1080i/720p only) and the problem fixes itself.

I'm guessing it's an issue with JVCs implementation of HDCP/HDMI and the box not liking it. Still should be happy that it works at all with the 8300, it's not the case with a lot of other televisions.

Vision1
Do you have a JVC set, if so, Model No. ? Also do you have the same Passport version? On our TWC system, can tune to channel 888 to get diagnostic info.

Thanks for your reply !

Vision1
Do you have a JVC set, if so, Model No. ? Also do you have the same Passport version? On our TWC system, can tune to channel 888 to get diagnostic info.

Thanks for your reply !

As I said, exactly same setup just a smaller screen size. Check my profile for full specs.

As long as it's a glitch in the overall system and not my TV about to bite it, I can live with it. Don't have much choice really. :rolleyes:

Well, hall, you're not so unique anymore. They pushed 2.5.051 in San Diego last night. I still have my old SA8000HD, so I don't see much change except for a few little things in the diags. (I'm not in a rush to "upgrade" to an 8300HD until they push a firmware rev with full support for SATA :)).

I'm sure that some of the more adventurous participants in the hdtv.forsandiego.com forums will try an SATA drive with it.

Speaking of the older 8000s, my non-HD 8000 was on an old software release while the 8300 got newer releases over time. It is now running the same software version.

The closest thing I have seen to the ding item is a window showing the current buffer progress. I do not recall a ding sound. This happens periodically but generally on the hour or half hour, and might be related to a recording starting. However the window contents always pertains to what I am watching
I suspect that some people don't hear the "ding" sound because the box switches from DD to PCM so abruptly when it wants to "ding" that most receivers don't react quickly enough....

Looks like here in NYC we're up for an "upgrade" any day now from 1.81.112 to 2.5.051 (some of the outer areas of our system have gotten it already). Does anyone out there know if this switch will fix the "ding" bug? Or the Daylight Savings Time Bug? Or any other bugs? Does it do anything useful for us? Or just make us more prone to glitches and reboots? ;-)

Thx,
Scott

I asked my contact for some of the "user" related changes/fixes in this newer version but haven't gotten a response....

I got the 2.5.051 upgrade on my 8300HD in staten island, and it seems to be ok thus far but I cant find the audio-out options anymore - were they removed with this version?

Woah -- I just noticed that there's a "Play from Beginning" option on a show that's mid-record, and it no longer slams the box to live when a show that you're watching ends! Hallelujah!

I just noticed that there's a "Play from Beginning" option on a show that's mid-record, and it no longer slams the box to live when a show that you're watching ends! Now that's the kind of improvements we want to see !

My box was just updated to 2.5.051 in the Milwaukee area. Now, when I cycle the video inputs on the TV (Sony V40XBR1) from my Xbox 360 back to the HDMI connection for my cable box, I just get static on the screen. I have to keep turning the tv off for about 10 seconds and then back on to get the picture to show up again. It has only done this since the upgrade. I do have a Daewoo Switch between the cable box and the tv. I used to just get the black "L" issue, now I get the static. Weirdly enough, the black "L" hasn't happened once since the new upgrade, but the static problem is really annoying me. I also have a Sony DVD player on the switch, and if I have it turned on, I can toggle through all the video modes on the TV and never have the static problem happen - it's just the cable box that "loses" it's sync. Anybody experiencing something similiar? I've also tried the cable box directly to the tv using Monster HDMI cable and the same static issue keeps happening.

My box was just updated to 2.5.051 in the Milwaukee area. Now, when I cycle the video inputs on the TV (Sony V40XBR1) from my Xbox 360 back to the HDMI connection for my cable box, I just get static on the screen. I have to keep turning the tv off for about 10 seconds and then back on to get the picture to show up again. It has only done this since the upgrade. I do have a Daewoo Switch between the cable box and the tv. I used to just get the black "L" issue, now I get the static. Weirdly enough, the black "L" hasn't happened once since the new upgrade, but the static problem is really annoying me. I also have a Sony DVD player on the switch, and if I have it turned on, I can toggle through all the video modes on the TV and never have the static problem happen - it's just the cable box that "loses" it's sync. Anybody experiencing something similiar? I've also tried the cable box directly to the tv using Monster HDMI cable and the same static issue keeps happening.
Welcome to HDMI-hades! When you switch the display away from the 8300HD, the box loses it's handshake, and when you switch back, it's too stoopid to renegociate the handshake without a complete on-off-on cycle.

Welcome to HDMI-hades! When you switch the display away from the 8300HD, the box loses it's handshake, and when you switch back, it's too stoopid to renegociate the handshake without a complete on-off-on cycle.

That's what I was guessing. The weird thing is that I USED to be able to switch back and forth before the firmware update just fine. The only plus is that my black "L" problem still seems to be gone, even though I'd much rather have to hit the menu button twice than cycle the tv power every time I switch sources. :mad:

Can anyone tell me the pattern of the upgrades in the 2.5.xxx series? (As in the order of which cities get the rollout first?)

I'm guessing Raleigh, NC is #1, Houston, TX #2, San Diego, CA #3...

is the box supposed to pump out DD 5.1 automatically now (assuming something is broadcast that way) ? I turned on HBOHD tonight and my receiver wasn't showing a 5.1 signal being decoded.

Can anyone tell me the pattern of the upgrades in the 2.5.xxx series? (As in the order of which cities get the rollout first?)

I'm guessing Raleigh, NC is #1, Houston, TX #2, San Diego, CA #3...I don't know that there's an order like that. Some of these systems seem to be pushing 2.5.051 when their previous release was 1.8.112; here in San Diego, we went to 2.5.022 back in September and have had new revisions pushed 4 times snce (.027, .039, .041, .051).

Can anyone tell me the pattern of the upgrades in the 2.5.xxx series? (As in the order of which cities get the rollout first?)

I'm guessing Raleigh, NC is #1, Houston, TX #2, San Diego, CA #3... I believe I got 2.5.051 before Raleigh did....

Can anyone tell me the pattern of the upgrades in the 2.5.xxx series? (As in the order of which cities get the rollout first?)

I'm guessing Raleigh, NC is #1, Houston, TX #2, San Diego, CA #3...
I was told that a firmware upgrade - to at least "043" that I got - was necessitated by a new 8300HD HARDWARE rev that SA is shipping. Whether you get 043, 048 or 051 probably depends on when your cableco pulls the trigger and/or other features incorporated into the various avalable versions. The last sentence is speculation on my part. And no, I don't know what the new hardware rev is or what it does (differently).

Hardware revs in devices like these are typically (obscure) bug fixes, are they not ?? The basic functionality on these boxes isn't going to change drastically otherwise you could end up with two "identical" boxes, i.e. 8300HD, that are incompatible with the software front-ends.

Hardware revs in devices like these are typically (obscure) bug fixes, are they not ?? The basic functionality on these boxes isn't going to change drastically otherwise you could end up with two "identical" boxes, i.e. 8300HD, that are incompatible with the software front-ends.
I was think/hoping it was new HDMI circuitry . . .

Just to let everyone know, the latest version is 2.5.052. This is what I have on my SD and HD boxes.

Just to let everyone know, the latest version is 2.5.052. This is what I have on my SD and HD boxes.
Where are you in "central PA?" I'm in York.

Where are you in "central PA?" I'm in York.I can see the city sign now:

Welcome to York, PA
Third Stone From The Sun

:) :D :)

I can see the city sign now:

Welcome to York, PA
Third Stone From The Sun

:) :D :)
Actually, I've been thinking about moving to the 4th Stone . . . :D

Where are you in "central PA?" I'm in York.

Ephrata, Pa

Cable = Blue Ridge Communications

Does anybody out there with a SA8300HD and a Passport version higher than 2.5.048 have an external SATA drive hooked up? If so, by chance do any of these newer versions (.51, .52) fix the issue with the "Live Buffer" problem?

Yesterday, I tried to watch last week's Formula 1 Grand Prix race, which I had recorded on the 8300HD-DVR. During playback, the DVR was constantly freezing up every 5 or 10 seconds for about 5-8 seconds, as if I kept hitting the pause button. I then advanced the recording to about the one hour point, and hit the play button again, but the same freeze ups continued. I could take only about 5 minutes of this crap, then stopped and erased the whole recording. This is really irritating considering how much I pay a month for this thing.
Any suggestions on how to correct or avoid this problem or is it simply time to swap it out again -- for the 5th time?
Do TiVo owners experience these same kind of problems?
I'm on Brighthouse cable in central FL.

Yesterday, I tried to watch last week's Formula 1 Grand Prix race, which I had recorded on the 8300HD-DVR. During playback, the DVR was constantly freezing up every 5 or 10 seconds for about 5-8 seconds, as if I kept hitting the pause button.

I'm on Brighthouse cable in central FL.
Hi Sgooter,

If you haven't already, please join us on the BHN Central Florida thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=384294).

Are you sure it is the DVR and not the signal coming into your house? Do you get freezes/pauses at other times, or only when watching recorded programs? (actually, everything is buffered, but whether or not you see freezes/pauses frequently on other channels at other times).

HTH,
/temple

I know this question must have been asked already, but I can't find it on a search.

Is there any way to "unerase" a recording.

Last night I was watching Desperate Housewives on the dvr, then went to a live channel. When I went back to the dvr, Housewives was gone! I must have accidently hit the erase button. I suspect it's still on the dvr, not yet recorded over.

I know this question must have been asked already, but I can't find it on a search.

Is there any way to "unerase" a recording.

Last night I was watching Desperate Housewives on the dvr, then went to a live channel. When I went back to the dvr, Housewives was gone! I must have accidently hit the erase button. I suspect it's still on the dvr, not yet recorded over.
There is no unerase function. It may still physically be there, but if it's not listed, it might as well be erased.

I know this question must have been asked already, but I can't find it on a search.

Is there any way to "unerase" a recording.

Last night I was watching Desperate Housewives on the dvr, then went to a live channel. When I went back to the dvr, Housewives was gone! I must have accidently hit the erase button. I suspect it's still on the dvr, not yet recorded over.
Some posters here may be able to direct you to an "alternate source" for the episode.

Thanks for a quick response Pepar.

Some posters here may be able to direct you to an "alternate source" for the episode. Give it another day to ensure that you'll have numerous "choices".

Thanks for a quick response Pepar.
I'm approaching the 4th millenium so I'm typing as fast as I can. ;)

I'm approaching the 4th millenium so I'm typing as fast as I can. ;)

The fourth millenium being 4,000 posts?

The fourth millenium being 4,000 posts?
;)

I posted this in the Tips/Tricks thread, but I thought that I would post it here as well.

I have a couple of questions about this unit.

My first question. I have having audio problems. I have tried to connect my 8300 via component and cheaper HDMI cables from monoprice.com. On the HD channels, it seems that I am only getting 2.0 sound. I have read the tricks and tried setting the Digital Out between HDMI and Dolby Digital without any luck. Both cables seem to have the audio problem. SD channels appear to get much better sound. Anyone else notice this?

Also,

What is a good way to get data (HD or SD) off of the 8300 to a stand alone HD recorder? I tried searching for this information on this forum for information about it. I haven't purchased a recorder yet, but I wanted to get some insight about this before I purchased a recorder. Should I purchase a recorder that has a built in hard drive? This seems like the logical answer, but I do not know anything about it.

Thanks,

Hi Sgooter,

If you haven't already, please join us on the BHN Central Florida thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=384294).

Are you sure it is the DVR and not the signal coming into your house? Do you get freezes/pauses at other times, or only when watching recorded programs? (actually, everything is buffered, but whether or not you see freezes/pauses frequently on other channels at other times).

HTH,
/temple
Hi Temple,
I do subscribe to the BHN thread as well.
I really don't know for sure whether the problem is with the DVR or the signal coming into my house. I'm really not pleased at all with the overall quality of my BHN HD service because I'm getting frequent and annoying drop outs and pixelations during most HD programming, regardless of whether it's live broadcast or movies. It could also be my HDMI cable for that matter. BTW, I'm not able to use component cable because there's just no space available in the cabling conduit in my built-in HT system. At this point I'm not sure how to isolate the problem: source signal, SA8300DVR, or HDMI.

What is a good way to get data (HD or SD) off of the 8300 to a stand alone HD recorder? I tried searching for this information on this forum for information about it. I haven't purchased a recorder yet, but I wanted to get some insight about this before I purchased a recorder. Should I purchase a recorder that has a built in hard drive? This seems like the logical answer, but I do not know anything about it.
There is no way to get hi-def content from the 8300HD to an external recorder. You could output SD video via the s-video and digital audio by coaxial/optical.

There is no way to get hi-def content from the 8300HD to an external recorder. You could output SD video via the s-video and digital audio by coaxial/optical.

I am aware of the HD limitations, but S-Video?? I loathe S-Video. Is there no outputting SD video via component?

Is there no outputting SD video via component?

That will work, but if you're using HDMI, you may need to disconnect it first to enable output over component.

That will work, but if you're using HDMI, you may need to disconnect it first to enable output over component.

Thanks. I am not seeing much of a PQ difference between component and HDMI. I am admittedly using a cheap HDMI cable, but I wanted to at least try HDMI. I could switch back to component permanently if need be.

Can anyone give more insight about transferring from the DVR to a stand alone recorder. Would you recommend a stand alone player with a hard drive, and transfer the information via component from the DVR to the DVD recorder?

I am aware of the HD limitations, but S-Video?? I loathe S-Video. Is there no outputting SD video via component?
Well sure, but do you have a recorder that accepts that as an input?

Well sure, but do you have a recorder that accepts that as an input?


I do not have a recorder yet, but I was eyeing the Toshiba XS34.

I do not have a recorder yet, but I was eyeing the Toshiba XS34.
Does it have a component input? If so, what formats does it accept?

Glancing at its user's manual, that Toshiba doesn't have component video inputs. In any case, even if it did, I'm not sure whether you could make the box downconvert HD material through it. Maybe if you said that 480p or 480i was the only available input format for your television.

Does it have a component input? If so, what formats does it accept?

Glancing at its user's manual, that Toshiba doesn't have component video inputs. In any case, even if it did, I'm not sure whether you could make the box downconvert HD material through it. Maybe if you said that 480p or 480i was the only available input format for your television.



It does have a firewire input. I have a 62" Mitsu DLP that has firewire outs.

Has anyone used the firewire ports on these 8300's to move data?

I have heard of them being used to extend recording time, a la firewire hard drives.

It also has HDMI upconversion, so I would like to use this as an upconverting DVD player as well.

edit..... Toshiba's website says that it has Component inputs, although the websites that sell them, do not.

"ColorStream® Component Video Inputs"

Yes, but that input is advertised to be for storing digital camcorder playback. That has a different stream format than what'd come out of the 1394/DTCP connector on DTV tuner, so there's no guarantee that it could cope with that.

Yes, but that input is advertised to be for storing digital camcorder playback. That has a different stream format than what'd come out of the 1394/DTCP connector on DTV tuner, so there's no guarantee that it could cope with that.
Maybe it matches the STB's component outs . . .

Glancing at its user's manual, that Toshiba doesn't have component video inputs. In any case, even if it did, I'm not sure whether you could make the box downconvert HD material through it. Maybe if you said that 480p or 480i was the only available input format for your television.

This is probably the way to do it, unfotunately. I had a Philips DVD-R w/ Component in for a few weeks. It only accepted 480i. So if you change the output formats on the 8300 to 480i ONLY then it will automatically downconvert HD to 480i widescreen. The main reason I got this recorder was b/c I wanted to preserve the 16:9 image and the S-Video outputs on the 8300 automatically letterbox 16:9 with those annoying gray bars. Problem was the Philips didn't properly flag the DVD's all the time so they would look on my display but would be all messed up on any other player. Forget the specifics exactly but it was annoying and I didn't use it that much so I brought it back. So unless you can find a DVD recorder than accepts HD resolutions over component you are gonna be stuck unselecting and then reselecting the output formats manually on the 8300 (assuming you want to watch HD of course).

I am admittedly using a cheap HDMI cable, but I wanted to at least try HDMI.

The HDMI cable you have (monoprice) gives just as good PQ as the expensive stuff. :)

It does have a firewire input. I have a 62" Mitsu DLP that has firewire outs.

Has anyone used the firewire ports on these 8300's to move data?

I have heard of them being used to extend recording time, a la firewire hard drives.

It also has HDMI upconversion, so I would like to use this as an upconverting DVD player as well.

edit..... Toshiba's website says that it has Component inputs, although the websites that sell them, do not.

"ColorStream® Component Video Inputs"
Firewire cannot be used for external hard drives. Only the SATA port can be used to add an external drive, but with current Passport software there is a trick buffer error when using an external SATA drive. Seems to work well with SARA though..............

Firewire cannot be used for external hard drives. Only the SATA port can be used to add an external drive, but with current Passport software there is a trick buffer error when using an external SATA drive. Seems to work well with SARA though..............
The poster wasn't looking to add an external drive. He wanted to add an external recorder. But in any case, I'm confused about just what the Firewire port *is* for . . .

It's possible that the Firewire ports on some SA8300HDs are now active in the latest releases of Passport Echo. Someone in San Diego reports that the diags say that both Firewire and SATA are "authorized". Of course, "authorized" isn't the same as "working" :).

But you're right, twitchee3; Firewire on these STBs is not for control of external HDDs. It transports MPEG-2 either to monitors or recording devices with 1394/DTCP connections. It is protected by the DTCP protocol; if the content is marked with one of the protected modes ("Copy Once", "Copy Never" or "Copy No More") or if something called the "Encryption Plus Non-assertion" (EPN) flag is "asserted" (only valid with "Copy Freely"), it will be encrypted and only a licensed DTCP device will be able to negotiate to receive a decryption key.

Currently, D-VHS decks can record content through such a connection, as long as it's "Copy Freely" or "Copy Once"; PC software can be used to make recordings of "Copy Freely" stuff, unless it's also "EPN Asserted". The EPN flag is for marking things that are "Copy Freely" to cause them tol be transmitted in encrypted form. There are no restrictions on the number of copies which can be made of "EPN-asserted Copy Freely" content, but it must be stored in encrypted form by the recording device and, if transmitted digitally it can only be through secure connections marked in a similar "Copy Freely but encrypt" fashion. (EPN is intended for things like the erstwhile Broadcast Flag, where the content is allowed to be copied as much as you want, but only using devices which can be trusted to keep it secure).

FCC regulations also require that the STBs be controllable to a certain extent by commands sent over 1394, such as On/Off and tuner control. An external recorder could use these commands to turn the STB on and tune it to the channel that it wants to record. Some televisions implement 1394 networked device control; Mitsubishi calls its system "NetCommand".

The poster wasn't looking to add an external drive. He wanted to add an external recorder. But in any case, I'm confused about just what the Firewire port *is* for . . .
I know he wasn't looking to do that, i just thought i'd correct his statement, that's all. And as i'm sure you know, the firewire ports are SUPPOSED to be for transport stream transfer, but it has yet to be enabled on this box it seems.
It's possible that the Firewire ports on some SA8300HDs are now active in the latest releases of Passport Echo. Someone in San Diego reports that the diags say that both Firewire and SATA are "authorized". Of course, "authorized" isn't the same as "working" .

But you're right, twitchee3; Firewire on these STBs is not for control of external HDDs. It transports MPEG-2 either to monitors or recording devices with 1394/DTCP connections. It is protected by the DTCP protocol; if the content is marked with one of the protected modes ("Copy Once", "Copy Never" or "Copy No More") or if something called the "Encryption Plus Non-assertion" (EPN) flag is "asserted" (only valid with "Copy Freely"), it will be encrypted and only a licensed DTCP device will be able to negotiate to receive a decryption key.

Currently, D-VHS decks can record content through such a connection, as long as it's "Copy Freely" or "Copy Once"; PC software can be used to make recordings of "Copy Freely" stuff, unless it's also "EPN Asserted". The EPN flag is for marking things that are "Copy Freely" to cause them tol be transmitted in encrypted form. There are no restrictions on the number of copies which can be made of "EPN-asserted Copy Freely" content, but it must be stored in encrypted form by the recording device and, if transmitted digitally it can only be through secure connections marked in a similar "Copy Freely but encrypt" fashion. (EPN is intended for things like the erstwhile Broadcast Flag, where the content is allowed to be copied as much as you want, but only using devices which can be trusted to keep it secure).

FCC regulations also require that the STBs be controllable to a certain extent by commands sent over 1394, such as On/Off and tuner control. An external recorder could use these commands to turn the STB on and tune it to the channel that it wants to record. Some televisions implement 1394 networked device control; Mitsubishi calls its system "NetCommand".
Excellent explanation of 5c, very informative.

Give it another day to ensure that you'll have numerous "choices".

No need to go trawling the internets. Just head on over to ABC.com and watch the free streaming video of the last episode of Desperate Housewives. Not a 42 inch picture but streamed very smoothly and in surprisingly good quality. Very handy for those unforseen finger presses. Now if only other channels did the same thing for emergencies.

Excellent explanation of 5c, very informative.A couple of things that I left out:

"Copy No More" protection will only be applied to playback of recorded "Copy Once" content. Licensed DTCP devices will not make another recording of it. So, though you could make recordings of "Copy Once" content from premium subscription services and give them to your friends (like HD movies from HBO and Showtime, etc), those friends could not use those recordings to make new copies to distribute.

"Copy Never" protection requires a separate set of credentials and a somewhat more elaborate and more secure process for negotiating to receive the decryption key. A removable media recorder need not be provisioned with the necessary credentials for viewing "Copy Never" content at all, so there's no way for them to record it.

FCC regulations require that anything in the core basic tier be transmitted over 1394/DTCP as "Copy Freely". (They also require that rebroadcasted OTA content positioned in the core basic tier). They're only allowed to apply "Copy Never" protection to Pay-Per-View and Pay Video On Demand. (There's been some controversy over Subscription On Demand--things like "HBO On Demand"; HBO and Showtime want to mark it "Copy Never" and Starz!/Encore wants to mark it "Copy Once". I've tried it and my cable system doesn't allow recording any VOD channel with the DVR, even the "freebies" like "HGTV On Demand"). Any other subscription or premium subscription content outside of the basic tier can be marked "Copy Once".

Hi Temple,
...I really don't know for sure whether the problem is with the DVR or the signal coming into my house. I'm really not pleased at all with the overall quality of my BHN HD service because I'm getting frequent and annoying drop outs and pixelations during most HD programming, regardless of whether it's live broadcast or movies. It could also be my HDMI cable for that matter...At this point I'm not sure how to isolate the problem: source signal, SA8300DVR, or HDMI.
Update: Last night I attempted to watch a recent DVR HD recording of SpiderMan-2, and once again it was constantly freezing up. I tried a different HDMI cable and also a different HDMI input port on my PDP, but nothing remedied the freeze ups. So, this morning on the way in to work I swapped out this cranky 8300HD-DVR for another one from Brighthouse (BHN). The new one they gave me has the 1394 port and they also gave me the cable for it, so I'm assuming the port is active. I don't have an intended use for the 1394 port, but I thought you folks would be interested to learn about BHN giving me the firewire cable. I also have a cable tech scheduled to come by tomorrow to check on the quality and strength of the incoming cable signal -- again.

The firewire/IEEE1394 output on the 8300HD was partially working for me on passport version 1.8.112 (I have since returne the 8300HD). I have a Toshiba 42hp95, with a firewire input. The firewire output from the 8300hd was active and could be viewed on my 42hp95. The SA8300HD, however, could neither synch with my Mitsubishi 1100 D-VHS or my computer. Thus, I could not record from the 8300HD.

After realizing I was paying == 18.00/month for the 8300hd plus the "DVR service from TW" for a non-functioning device, I opted to purchase an AVHD device (Symbio) for a little over the yearly cost of the DVR. The Symbio allows archiving ("copy once" or "copy freely" material) to DVHS from the DVR. Moreover, the DVR also functions on OTA sources for stations which TWC does not carry (Sinclair). There are some downsides -- I can't record one HD program on the Symbio and watch another HD program at the same time.

It's possible that the Firewire ports on some SA8300HDs are now active in the latest releases of Passport Echo. Someone in San Diego reports that the diags say that both Firewire and SATA are "authorized". Of course, "authorized" isn't the same as "working" :).

But you're right, twitchee3; Firewire on these STBs is not for control of external HDDs. It transports MPEG-2 either to monitors or recording devices with 1394/DTCP connections. It is protected by the DTCP protocol; if the content is marked with one of the protected modes ("Copy Once", "Copy Never" or "Copy No More") or if something called the "Encryption Plus Non-assertion" (EPN) flag is "asserted" (only valid with "Copy Freely"), it will be encrypted and only a licensed DTCP device will be able to negotiate to receive a decryption key.

Currently, D-VHS decks can record content through such a connection, as long as it's "Copy Freely" or "Copy Once"; PC software can be used to make recordings of "Copy Freely" stuff, unless it's also "EPN Asserted". The EPN flag is for marking things that are "Copy Freely" to cause them tol be transmitted in encrypted form. There are no restrictions on the number of copies which can be made of "EPN-asserted Copy Freely" content, but it must be stored in encrypted form by the recording device and, if transmitted digitally it can only be through secure connections marked in a similar "Copy Freely but encrypt" fashion. (EPN is intended for things like the erstwhile Broadcast Flag, where the content is allowed to be copied as much as you want, but only using devices which can be trusted to keep it secure).

FCC regulations also require that the STBs be controllable to a certain extent by commands sent over 1394, such as On/Off and tuner control. An external recorder could use these commands to turn the STB on and tune it to the channel that it wants to record. Some televisions implement 1394 networked device control; Mitsubishi calls its system "NetCommand".


I second this is a great post. Has anyone used this boxes firewire command to transport data? Has anyone been able to use the firewire port to archive the data off of the 8300 to a PC?

Just now I successfully hooked up an external 250GB SATA to my 8300HD. My DVR AVFS diagnostic screen now shows 364.5GB capacity and the drive light is busily flashing away as it records the Yankee Game (kills me to do this…I’m a Met fan but they’re not on for another 15 minutes).

Here are the particulars:

• Passport v2.5.051
• Western Digital 250GB IDE (yes IDE) drive – model WD25000LB
• External IDE to SATA enclosure
• 3 ft. SATA to eSATA cable


Some quick observations:

Drive was immediately recognized and DVR asked to format it. Took about 2 minutes. I then started recording the Yankee game. As an experiment I powered off the drive. The DVR immediately sensed it and told me the drive was disconnected. When I reconnected it the DVR asked me to push A on the remote and the DVR rebooted and the drive was back up and recording in about 2 minutes!

Just now I successfully hooked up an external 250GB SATA to my 8300HD. My DVR AVFS diagnostic screen now shows 364.5GB capacity and the drive light is busily flashing away as it records the Yankee Game (kills me to do this…I’m a Met fan but they’re not on for another 15 minutes).

Here are the particulars:

• Passport v2.5.051
• Western Digital 250GB IDE (yes IDE) drive – model WD25000LB
• External IDE to SATA enclosure
• 3 ft. SATA to eSATA cable


Some quick observations:

Drive was immediately recognized and DVR asked to format it. Took about 2 minutes. I then started recording the Yankee game. As an experiment I powered off the drive. The DVR immediately sensed it and told me the drive was disconnected. When I reconnected it the DVR asked me to push A on the remote and the DVR rebooted and the drive was back up and recording in about 2 minutes!
Unfortunately since you're using Passport, your trick buffer is probably gone.....................too bad. If you like timeshifting, it's not wise to use an external SATA drive on an SA83000 with Passport.

Unfortunately since you're using Passport, your trick buffer is probably gone.....................too bad. If you like timeshifting, it's not wise to use an external SATA drive on an SA83000 with Passport.We don't know that--we haven't heard from anyone using 2.5.051 with an SATA drive as to whether their live trick-play functions work correctly (even when it doesn't trick play of recordings work).

surfinusa88--can you PAUSE and resume when watching live television (not recording the channel). Can you REWIND and FF?

I'm a bit perplexed by that 364 GB capacity number. Seems like it should be 383 GB. It's a tad over a 19GB discrepancy. 250 "marketing gigabytes" (a.k.a. 250 billion bytes) = 232.8 "computing gigbytes" (250,000,000,000 divided by 2-to-the-30th). Minus the 150.6 GB on the internal drive, that'd be 213.9, which is only 229.7 billion bytes.

Well, we know now--someone at hdtv.forsandiego.com says that he connected a 500GB drive though his trick-play of live content is broken. He syas that he can PAUSE and continue where he left off and that the "replay" button works, but no REWIND or FF. That would seem to make it slightly less broken than previous revisions.

There is a lot of overhead on the external drive and I believe that amount increases as the drive size increases thereby increasing the cost per usable GB. This was discussed quite a while ago (like maybe even last year) over in the SATA thread and IIRC someone posted a few example numbers to illustrate the point.

Someone else at hdtv.forsandiego.com reports partial success using the Firewire connection on his SA8300HD under Passport Echo 2.5.051 (HW rev 2.2). He can view and record the SD digital channels using his JVC D-VHS deck, but when he goes to one of the HD channels it locks up; it continuously displays one frame of what was on the channel.

I'm willing to bet that my local TW's response to something like this would be "yes, you should be able to connect an external HDD to the DVR with the latest software release and it will work but *we* don't support it's use".

I'm willing to bet that my local TW's response to something like this would be "yes, you should be able to connect an external HDD to the DVR with the latest software release and it will work but *we* don't support it's use".

and I'M willing to bet that MY local TW's responce would be more like "Say what?"

More info on my working SATA:

I'm located on Staten Island

The FF/REW do not work when watching live TV. Interestingly pause does and play do work, but live doesn't bring you up to the present. You can use FF/REW when watching a show from the list as it is being recorded.

The approx. 360GB also confuses me. It went from 150 to 360 which is plus 210, not the 250 or so I expected.

Parts:
Sata Cable Part # CD-108A3 - cooldrives
IDE to SATA enclosure - part # 17-155-218 - newegg

The approx. 360GB also confuses me. It went from 150 to 360 which is plus 210, not the 250 or so I expected.Again, there's a difference between what we mean in computing when we say "gigabyte" and what the marketing yahoos who specify the numbers on the disk drive packaging mean. In computing, a "giga" is 2-to-the-30th, or 1,073,741,824; when the marketing people say "giga" they mean 10-to-the-9th (1,000,000,000). The diag pages on the SA83000HD give the number in 2-to-the-30th bytes. 150.6GB is actually 161.7 billion bytes and hence the marketing claim that it's a "160GB" drive.

Your 250 billion-byte drive is actually 232.8GB. The 360GB is still short by a bit--it should be 283.4GB.

I have been asked if I would like to help test beta code that turns on the SATA port.

I have been asked if I would like to help test beta code that turns on the SATA port.Excellent. When would you get it? Are they providing you with an HDD?

Excellent. When would you get it? Are they providing you with an HDD?
I've provided my serial number/RF MAC address for the box I want to use and get the impression that the beta code will be loaded very soon. Be nice - but surprising - if they supplied HD. More likely, they'll provide a drive compatibility list and I'll acquire one myself.

Hello. I have TWC in Cincinnati connected to the 60" SXRD. They first gave me the regular HD receiver that looked awesome. I traded that one in for the DVR - I believe it's the 8300. I really notice a difference in picture quality while watching HD sports. Should live viewing with the DVR be any different than the standard HD receiver? I can understand that recorded shows would suffer a bit but not live viewings. Any ideas? I guess one solution would be to get another standard HD receiver and use that one for my live viewing.

I have been asked if I would like to help test beta code that turns on the SATA port.

Great! Where are you located? How did TWC come to ask you? Any idea how one would volunteer to be a beta tester?

Hello. I have TWC in Cincinnati connected to the 60" SXRD. They first gave me the regular HD receiver that looked awesome. I traded that one in for the DVR - I believe it's the 8300. I really notice a difference in picture quality while watching HD sports. Should live viewing with the DVR be any different than the standard HD receiver? I can understand that recorded shows would suffer a bit but not live viewings. Any ideas? I guess one solution would be to get another standard HD receiver and use that one for my live viewing.
Working correctly, the stream from the hard drive is bit-for-bit what came down the cable.

Great! Where are you located? How did TWC come to ask you? Any idea how one would volunteer to be a beta tester?
This is my cable provider, who is NOT TWC, running the beta test, but I think I infer that the provider is participating in an Aptiv beta test. If your cableco is similarly participating, then you could conceivably be a beta tester.

They first gave me the regular HD receiver that looked awesome. I traded that one in for the DVR - I believe it's the 8300. I really notice a difference in picture quality while watching HD sports. Different receivers will simply have different picture quality. A lot of people went from a non-DVR HD receiver, often a Pioneer model, to the SA8000HD and they ALL complained about the poor quality. Most of these same people upgraded to the SA8300HD when it became available and considered the quality to be close or equal to the old Pioneer. Personally, I find it hard to believe people can remember PQ after 1+ years... but...
Should live viewing with the DVR be any different than the standard HD receiver? I can understand that recorded shows would suffer a bit but not live viewings. Already answered and I agree 100%. The SA boxes do NOTHING to the MPEG stream.
I guess one solution would be to get another standard HD receiver and use that one for my live viewing. Doesn't that TV have CableCard ?? That's probably the best picture quality option and lower-cost option.

Different receivers will simply have different picture quality. A lot of people went from a non-DVR HD receiver, often a Pioneer model, to the SA8000HD and they ALL complained about the poor quality. Most of these same people upgraded to the SA8300HD when it became available and considered the quality to be close or equal to the old Pioneer. Personally, I find it hard to believe people can remember PQ after 1+ years... but...
Already answered and I agree 100%. The SA boxes do NOTHING to the MPEG stream.
Doesn't that TV have CableCard ?? That's probably the best picture quality option and lower-cost option.

I guess that's the problem. I noticed a noticeable decline in quality - and I did go from the Pioneer to the 8300. It's noticeable enough to ditch the DVR. Can you explain the CableCard scenerio? I would still have the DVR and then have the CableCard in a different input? Would I get all of my normal channels? Sorry for all the questions - I don't know anything about the card.

Can you explain the CableCard scenerio? I would still have the DVR and then have the CableCard in a different input? Would I get all of my normal channels? Sorry for all the questions - I don't know anything about the card.

The DVR and the CC would be separate inputs. The current generation of CCs is one-directional only, meaning that you would receive all channels except those requiring bi-directional communications, such as video on demand.

You won't get PPV channels, I believe, with a CableCard (unless you call your cableco and order them, if that's even possible with TWC). Anything you record to the DVR will, in your eyes, be of lessor picture quality (not doubting your perception, mind you).

TW charges $2-3/month for a CableCard. Here is TW Cincy's page, http://www.timewarnercable.com/cincinnati/products/cablecard.html.

Hello. I have TWC in Cincinnati connected to the 60" SXRD. They first gave me the regular HD receiver that looked awesome. I traded that one in for the DVR - I believe it's the 8300. I really notice a difference in picture quality while watching HD sports. Should live viewing with the DVR be any different than the standard HD receiver? I can understand that recorded shows would suffer a bit but not live viewings. Any ideas? I guess one solution would be to get another standard HD receiver and use that one for my live viewing.
HD recordings will LOOK EXACTLY like the originals, since it is a digital recording (1's and 0's) not an analog capture which is prone to PQ loss.

For CableCard, you would split the RF cable, one to the DVR, and one to the TV. Put the cable card in the TV and you would get ALL the channels you subscribe to, analog, digital, HD, and premium. However, no on demand, PPV, or guide through the TV.

I guess that's the problem. I noticed a noticeable decline in quality - and I did go from the Pioneer to the 8300. It's noticeable enough to ditch the DVR. Can you explain the CableCard scenerio? I would still have the DVR and then have the CableCard in a different input? Would I get all of my normal channels? Sorry for all the questions - I don't know anything about the card.

I tried a CC with my Sharp Aquos LC45GD6U. TWC Staten Island NY charged $1.75/month. I thought PQ was better than the 8300HD live broadcast. However, I had nothing but problems. Channels would disappear and reappear from the channel list, the activation screen would randomly popup and block the screen (even when viewing the 8300HD through the HDMI!) Worst of all they insisted that a tech had to install it (very complicated - Step 1 install card, step 2 call for activation) and they charged me $25 for the tech visit.

During several CS calls reps admitted they were having many problems.

I finally gave up and returned it.

Sometimes I think they just make us pay for field training their techs on anything new.

Maybe a 40 year monopoly isn't the best way to kick off a new technology?

I guess that's the problem. I noticed a noticeable decline in quality - and I did go from the Pioneer to the 8300. It's noticeable enough to ditch the DVR. Can you explain the CableCard scenerio? I would still have the DVR and then have the CableCard in a different input? Would I get all of my normal channels? Sorry for all the questions - I don't know anything about the card.

Rob:

I'm also TWC Cincy with 60" SXRD. I think the picture quality on the 8300 is great. You referenced a Pioneer HD box which I'm not familiar with. I thought the only alternative here was the Pace box.

Are you connected via component or HDMI? Is your displeasure with HD channels or SD channels?

BTW, you can tune the local HD stations (WCPO, etc.) via QAM directly on the TV.

Christian

They don't really want people to use CableCARD; it keeps them from making use of their lucrative interactive services, Impulse Pay-Per-View and Pay Video On Demand. CableCARDs are also expensive in terms of service, because they don't work properly in every implementation.

CCs are a good idea, but they should have waited for the two-way version to be finished before they started manufacturing them, or at least require the physical implementation of the back-channel, so that people could easily upgrade. The physical part of bidirectional communications were defined in the CableCARD V1 spec and essentially have not changed.
BTW, you can tune the local HD stations (WCPO, etc.) via QAM directly on the TV.I assume that you're saying that you can tune the HD locals without a CableCARD, which should be true. By FCC regulations, nothing in the core basic tier, be it analog or digital, can by encrypted or scrambled and rebroadcasts of free OTA television must be part of the core basic tier. Any CableCARD television can tune unencrypted QAM without a CableCARD. However, if you want more than basic cable, such as digital channels in the expanded basic tier or premium subscription tiers like HBO and Showtime, you have to use either an STB or CableCARD.

Is your displeasure with HD channels or SD channels? TW Cincy is doing digital simulcasting now, so even the SD channels should look pretty good, or at least much better than they used to.

TW Cincy is doing digital simulcasting now, so even the SD channels should look pretty good, or at least much better than they used to.

That's (better quality) not necessarily true! The digital version is actually degraded from the analog version (there is an additional A to D conversion and then compression to get 12-16 digital channels in the space of one analog channel). Where there are marginal analog cable situations the more robust digital signal MAY be better.

When our local TW switched to digital on the locals last year, many on our local forum noted a poorer picture, while many found it was better. However, it doesn't matter much as we all are watching mostly HD anyway.

Very true, Dave. We are simulcasting now and the PQ is better, but not by much. It's hard to describe, but I liken it (analog) to an image being sharpened once too much on a PC vs the digital that is smoother and clearer. AFAIK, the goal (and payoff) is to send everything digitally, freeing up bandwidth, and have the D-A conversion closer to the viewer for those who do not have digital service. A lot depends on how many channels they try to stuff into a single frequency. Here I think they are doing 11 @ ~3.5 Mbps.

The digital version is actually degraded from the analog version (there is an additional A to D conversion and then compression to get 12-16 digital channels in the space of one analog channel).
But XX percent of programming is delivered to head ends in digital form already. Suspect 8--12 channels per 256-QAM, 6-Mhz cable slot is typical, with ~40 Mbps/12 not leaving much for PQ. My NYC TWC went digital a few years back, and while the digitals have less noise and are slightly crisper, overall they appear similar to the ~30 out of 90 NTSC-format channels still unscrambled. -- John

...and then compression to get 12-16 digital channels in the space of one analog channel). My engineering contact at my local TWC says they can fit (6) digital channels in the same space. And what level of compression is used ?? When our local TW switched to digital on the locals last year, many on our local forum noted a poorer picture, while many found it was better. I've seen comments from people in the Cincy region as well as NE Ohio and they've all been happy and impressed with the *improvement* in PQ. Maybe in your area the issue is that they really are cramming 12-16 channels "per slot" vs the much smaller number they're doing around here ??

On TWC here in San Diego, for the digital simulcast they're squeezing 13 channels into one 6Mhz band at about 3 Mbps per. PQ is okay; maybe a bit better than watching an analog channel using the DVR was before. I rarely watch SD television in any case; pretty much only Sci-Fi, the ESPNs and The Tennis Channel. I hardly have enough time to watch the HD stuff that I tmeshift.

Thanks surfinusa88!

I added surfinusa88's numbers to the previous spreadsheet.

The loss from the expected sector count here ~18.93 GB (160 & 250) seems remarkably consistent with galen's (160+400) numbers.

I do not think I made a mistake, but I am prepping to move this week, so I did not play around too awful much.Maybe the numbers on the BFS page may have something to do with the loss of sectors from the specifications, but I do not have time to try to piece where they would fit in there.Edit #2: I went to update my numbers and played a bit with the BFS numbers. They only seem to rise, and are probably just a counter. Whatever they count seems to be stored in the DVR ITFS, as there is a weak relationship.

Deleting a file, the DVR ITFS used space is related to AVFS used space, but I did not find a strong pattern, it probably contains the title/info text for stored recordings.

The SARA folks posted a memory ~map for their software a bit back, because they think the larger [HHD allocation table] (+ Cable CO apps, Vid Poker, etc.) may cause out of memory problems. Maybe the ITFS also contains a back-up of that.

v/r,
C-F

Currently while watching my HD content on my TV (for some channels) I am getting grey bars and unable to stretch the TV picture to fill the screen. Someone on another thread said I wasn't supposed to be getting those and said I should have pass thru selected in my box. Then I was told this is only for SATA software. What settings should I have that eliminates the grey bars and lets me watch HD content full screen and No GREY BARs?

Thanks

PS I assume I have the Passport software installed on my Box.

Currently while watching my HD content on my TV (for some channels) I am getting grey bars and unable to stretch the TV picture to fill the screen. Someone on another thread said I wasn't supposed to be getting those and said I should have pass thru selected in my box. Then I was told this is only for SATA software. What settings should I have that eliminates the grey bars and lets me watch HD content full screen and No GREY BARs?

Thanks

PS I assume I have the Passport software installed on my Box.
The box - like a DVD player - needs to be told what aspect ration display it's attached to. Also, select all formats/resolutions so box will "pass through" all signals as is.

Currently while watching my HD content on my TV (for some channels) I am getting grey bars and unable to stretch the TV picture to fill the screen. Someone on another thread said I wasn't supposed to be getting those and said I should have pass thru selected in my box. Then I was told this is only for SATA software. What settings should I have that eliminates the grey bars and lets me watch HD content full screen and No GREY BARs?

Thanks

PS I assume I have the Passport software installed on my Box.

Using your 8300 remote, go into Settings, then More Settings, then scroll til you find Aspect Ratio. Select "Widescreen (16:9)" and then you also need to decide how you wish to display 4:3 ratio programming. I use the Stretch mode for 4:3 SD programming so that I don't get the black bars on the side.

The box - like a DVD player - needs to be told what aspect ration display it's attached to. Also, select all formats/resolutions so box will "pass through" all signals as is.


I will try that. Currently I have all formats selected except for 480p ( I read that I should leave that one unselected) Maybe that will do the trick.

Thanks.

Using your 8300 remote, go into Settings, then More Settings, then scroll til you find Aspect Ratio. Select "Widescreen (16:9)" and then you also need to decide how you wish to display 4:3 ratio programming. I use the Stretch mode for 4:3 SD programming so that I don't get the black bars on the side.


I have widescreen selected, and I have selected stretch 4:3 picture. But for some reason it seems that it either doesn't work for me, or I have to continually select stretch by pressing # symbol and exit for it to stick to that channel. If I change the channel it simply reverts back to normal most times.

Could it be something with my box? Am I making a mistake?

Could it be something with my box? Am I making a mistake?

There's nothing wrong with your box. When a HD channel broadcasts programs with a 4:3 aspect ratio instead of a 16:9 aspect ratio, the broadcaster (not the box) adds black or gray sidebars to fill out the full screen area. The sidebars are part of the picture. The only way to eliminate the sidebars on such programs is to use the box's Zoom or Stretch modes each time you view one; the box cannot do this automatically. When you view a SD channel (with a 4:3 aspect ratio) on your widescreen TV, the box can add sidebars to the picture to fill out the screen, and the box can be configured to add these or not add them every time such a channel is viewed. Put differently, there are two different kinds of sidebars.

I have widescreen selected, and I have selected stretch 4:3 picture. But for some reason it seems that it either doesn't work for me, or I have to continually select stretch by pressing # symbol and exit for it to stick to that channel. If I change the channel it simply reverts back to normal most times.

Could it be something with my box? Am I making a mistake?

No. I have 2 8300HDs and an 3250HD, all running passport, and the ONLY way I can get any of the boxes to display properly on my 16X9 sets is to set the apect ratios to Standard (4:3) Letterbox 16:9 picture. I know, this seems counter intuitive, but for this to work on ALL my sets, to me, speaks of some bug in the software.

There's nothing wrong with your box. When a HD channel broadcasts programs with a 4:3 aspect ratio instead of a 16:9 aspect ratio, the broadcaster (not the box) adds black or gray sidebars to fill out the full screen area. The sidebars are part of the picture. The only way to eliminate the sidebars on such programs is to use the box's Zoom or Stretch modes each time you view one; the box cannot do this automatically. When you view a SD channel (with a 4:3 aspect ratio) on your widescreen TV, the box can add sidebars to the picture to fill out the screen, and the box can be configured to add these or not add them every time such a channel is viewed. Put differently, there are two different kinds of sidebars.


Gotcha. Thanks for this and all responses.

Always late to the party, (and now late on both points)...

Sometimes the TV station is sending 4:3 content in a 16:9 frame, the TV and STB are acting appropriately. Which means you may adjust the aspect controls on the TV and STB to get something close - but you will need to change them back as soon as you change to another channel.

I would keep playing with it. Passport aspect controls here (TWC-KC, 4:3 TV) acted correctly for one month in 2003, and have not acted the way they should since. There is a way to get my TV and STB to display things correctly, but the label on the STB side is incorrect.


v/r,
C-F

"Passthrough" is in the SARA OS. (e)SATA refers to an external harddrive interface/connector.

No. I have 2 8300HDs and an 3250HD, all running passport, and the ONLY way I can get any of the boxes to display properly on my 16X9 sets is to set the apect ratios to Standard (4:3) Letterbox 16:9 picture. I know, this seems counter intuitive, but for this to work on ALL my sets, to me, speaks of some bug in the software.


Hummmmmm...Sounds interesting. I might try this set up and see if I like it better.

Thanks.

No. I have 2 8300HDs and an 3250HD, all running passport, and the ONLY way I can get any of the boxes to display properly on my 16X9 sets is to set the apect ratios to Standard (4:3) Letterbox 16:9 picture. I know, this seems counter intuitive, but for this to work on ALL my sets, to me, speaks of some bug in the software.Yes, this is the way I set mine, the signal seems to actually be a 16:9 signal, as I set the TV to WIDE just like the OTA, X-BOX, DVD, etc.

v/r,
C-F

Yes, this is the way I set mine, the signal seems to actually be a 16:9 signal, as I set the TV to WIDE just like the OTA, X-BOX, DVD, etc.

v/r,
C-F

Same here. SA8300 at 4:3 and Letterbox. I let the TV adjust for Wide (as it does a better job than the SA8300). I have a Sony XS955. I'm also using HDMI, which may impact the communication between the SA8300 and TV for this situation. I don't know if HDMI has an impact for sure, but others can comment.

Same here. SA8300 at 4:3 and Letterbox. I let the TV adjust for Wide (as it does a better job than the SA8300). I have a Sony XS955. I'm also using HDMI, which may impact the communication between the SA8300 and TV for this situation. I don't know if HDMI has an impact for sure, but others can comment.

I'm running component, so I guess that or HDMI doesn't matter.
I also let my TVs adjust for wide-here with the benefit that 480P has the black sidebars (preferable over the grey on my LCD sets).

Rob:

I'm also TWC Cincy with 60" SXRD. I think the picture quality on the 8300 is great. You referenced a Pioneer HD box which I'm not familiar with. I thought the only alternative here was the Pace box.

Are you connected via component or HDMI? Is your displeasure with HD channels or SD channels?

BTW, you can tune the local HD stations (WCPO, etc.) via QAM directly on the TV.

Christian

Hi Christian -

I'm using the HDMI connection now - I had to use the component connection with the Pioneer receiver since it didn't have HDMI. I really think the PQ of HD is not as good as it was on the Pioneer. I attributed it to the fact that it is a DVR now. Maybe the Pioneer just produced a better picture??? What formats are you sending out of your box? I think I have all selected now. Thanks!

Greetings,

My 8300HD has recently been upgraded to the 2.5.051 Passport Echo firmware. Since then I have an issue where each time the box is powered up I get sound but no picture ( just snow ). The only way to get the picture is to switch to a channel that has a different resolution than the current channel.

For example if the box was powered while set to Fox HD ( 720p ) I need to switch the channel to CBS HD ( 1080i ) to get my Sony HS51 and the 8300HD to link up. If I switch to ABC HD which is also 720p there is no change in the snowy picture.

This was never an issue until this latest upgrade. Prior to that when everything powered up I got a picture regardless. While this is not a big issue it is certainly an annoyance.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Regards,

Yes, our Milwaukeeland TWC region just got this awful upgrade!
So I guess we are the "test animals" on this...note no Pioneer name anymore during the reboot, either...something else.
Maybe TWC or the new company software doesn't like us to use HDMI, anymore?
So I pulled my HDMI cabling out and leave the boxes to the off display position when not in use (jams up recordings if left on too long).
So far... it works much better...I use quality component cabling (not what TWC gives you) now on all HDTVs...just sort of going backwards...no one tested the new software, I guess!

I hate to pee on the fire here but my system has never worked better since the "upgrade" here in the Milwaukee market. I use HDMI to DVI on my projector and I used to have all sorts of handshake problems when powering up and sometimes even when changing channels (especially when changing from SD to HD). Since the firmware upgrade I have yet to experience any glitches at all. No mystery reboots, nothing.

I do have one gripe though: when using HDMI the output resolution is locked at 1080i. :mad: I have a 720p native resolution DLP and would prefer to feed it a "pixel perfect" signal. It makes no sense to receive a 720p signal from ABC or ESPN and convert it to 1080i just to have it converted back to 720p by the projector.

I haven't tested the PIP swap bug to see if that has been fixed or not.

Yes, our Milwaukeeland TWC region just got this awful upgrade!
So I guess we are the "test animals" on this...note no Pioneer name anymore during the reboot, either...something else.

Yep. The upgrade screwed up my HDMI connection also. (West Milwaukee)

I get the snow problem when I switch video sources from the cable box --> Xbox 360 and back again. I have to turn off my Sony 40" Bravia and turn it back on for it to re-handshake. The only good thing with this new firmware is it eliminated my black "L" problem when turning on the TV/STB.

I do have one gripe though: when using HDMI the output resolution is locked at 1080i. :mad: I have a 720p native resolution DLP and would prefer to feed it a "pixel perfect" signal. It makes no sense to receive a 720p signal from ABC or ESPN and convert it to 1080i just to have it converted back to 720p by the projector.
Sounds like you cannot go to Settings|More Settings and turn on (and off) any of the Output Formats, right?

Sounds like you cannot go to Settings|More Settings and turn on (and off) any of the Output Formats, right?


You can, the changes just don't stick.

You can, the changes just don't stick.
Have you done a hard reboot since the upgrade? That behavior can't be intended.

Have you done a hard reboot since the upgrade? That behavior can't be intended.
It's a pretty common problem with the 8300 using HDMI. The cable box uses EDID information to figure out what resolutions are supported by the attached device, and disables everything not explicitly supported.

I noticed on my Time Warner Columbus Ohio SA 8300HD that on the diagnostics menu under SATA that it says authorized. Does that mean the SATA port now works?

I also noticed that HDCP is now on under HDMI.

I am running 2.5.051 of the Passport software.

(See attached pics)

I noticed on my Time Warner Columbus Ohio SA 8300HD that on the diagnostics menu under SATA that it says authorized. Does that mean the SATA port now works?

I also noticed that HDCP is now on under HDMI.

I am running 2.5.051 of the Passport software.

(See attached pics)
Yes, others with the same version of the OS are reporting that it works (sorta). Page back a bit to read that it basically works, but you lose your ability to FF/REW live TV (due to it not being 100% supported yet) unless you have explicitly set the current program to record.

It's a pretty common problem with the 8300 using HDMI. The cable box uses EDID information to figure out what resolutions are supported by the attached device, and disables everything not explicitly supported.
I think the poster said his display is native 720p. And his box only wants to output 1080i. While I don't doubt your statement, it doesn't sound like that's the explanation in his case.

I can confirm what Carl reported for EDID errors. We have found the same issues with 1.8.112 incorrectly identifying supported resolutions. If I feed the hdmi to our Brillian 1080p the 8300 changes the output to 720p only. If I feed hdmi to our Lumagen HDP the 8300 changes to 480p and 1080i only. We had a customer with a Fujitsu plasma and the 8300 output 480p only so we asked the local cable engineer to revert them to the previous software version 1.8.103 and using the same 8300 with the same Fujitsu the 8300 output allowed 480p, 720p and 1080i output. I was really hoping the problem would be fixed in the 2.5 release but at this point I just want a manual override for output resolutions.

I can confirm what Carl reported for EDID errors. We have found the same issues with 1.8.112 incorrectly identifying supported resolutions.Let's not go apportioning blame just yet :). Have you seen what's in the E-EDID block transmitted by your television? Perhaps it actually says that it only supports 1080i.

I haven't heard this complaint before now, and I'd think that if it were common, it would have been bitched about profusely in this thread.

BTW, 2.5.051 SATA users--if you're watching "live TV" and you push the REC button, can you then do trick-play functions (PAUSE, REW, FF, replay, slow, frame-advance, "15 minute" skip, etc)?

Let's not go apportioning blame just yet :). Have you seen what's in the E-EDID block transmitted by your television? Perhaps it actually says that it only supports 1080i.

I haven't heard this complaint before now, and I'd think that if it were common, it would have been bitched about profusely in this thread.

If the displays EDID was wrong (many are) why did passport software version .103 and .112 read different EDID settings. Do you think Lumagen is sending the wrong EDID?

BTW, 2.5.051 SATA users--if you're watching "live TV" and you push the REC button, can you then do trick-play functions (PAUSE, REW, FF, replay, slow, frame-advance, "15 minute" skip, etc)?

Yes.... for stuff beyond the point where you press record.... but not prior to that point.

Edit: Actually Im running .048 not .051

If the displays EDID was wrong (many are) why did passport software version .103 and .112 read different EDID settings. Do you think Lumagen is sending the wrong EDID?It's possible. It's also possible that in previous versions, it didn't pay any attention to the supported resolutions listed in the E-EDID block.

I just had TWC in Charlotte install the HD DVR. They put in the 8000 and are coming back with the 8300 tomorrow. Mainly because I asked if I had the latest model. I am new to HD and have questions. I could read all 124 pages of post but I hope someone can help before that. What is the main difference between the two? Will there be better pq with all stations, including the low numbers? Will a component connect do just as well as hdmi? (I do have a Sony CRT). I notice you can choose resolution settings - it is now set at 1080i only. Is that best for all channels? Can you set more that one? The quide in stretch mode wil not stretch like the picture. Is that normal? Any other good hints at getting the best picture possible?

Mike,

I want to verify multiple sources and scalers. What software do you trust to read the E-EDID block?

Let's not go apportioning blame just yet :).
Aww c'mon, that's what we do here. And we can always re-apportion it later. :)

I just had TWC in Charlotte install the HD DVR. They put in the 8000 and are coming back with the 8300 tomorrow. Mainly because I asked if I had the latest model. I am new to HD and have questions. I could read all 124 pages of post but I hope someone can help before that. What is the main difference between the two? Will there be better pq with all stations, including the low numbers? Will a component connect do just as well as hdmi? (I do have a Sony CRT). I notice you can choose resolution settings - it is now set at 1080i only. Is that best for all channels? Can you set more that one? The quide in stretch mode wil not stretch like the picture. Is that normal? Any other good hints at getting the best picture possible? Some differences between the 8300HD and the 8000HD are: the 8300HD has faster CPUs and does some things faster; the 8300HD is known to show greater resolution as measured with calibration screens; the 8300HD has HDMI, SATA and 1394/DTCP support, depending on the hardware and firmware revs.
Anecdotally, the 8300HD does standard-definition analog display better; as mentioned in the last bullet, it has been measured to have greater resolution in high def.
Component should do fine, particularly with a CRT. (I assume that you mean direct-view and not projection)? There are several problems with HDMI as currently implemented and unless you have compelling reasons for using it, I'd avoid it.
Yes--you can set more than one available output resolution in any combination of 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i. If you add any of these to the set, if the source signal is in that format, it will send that format to your monitor, so it better be capable of handling it (my monitor, for instance, cannot directly deal with a 720p signal).
The guide does not stretch or zoom.
You should read the Passport Echo Hints and Tips (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4547722&&#post4547722) post. It won't tell you how to get the best picture, but it will tell you some undocumented details of the UI.

Mike,

I want to verify multiple sources and scalers. What software do you trust to read the E-EDID block?That would be cool, but I don't think that there's any off-the-shelf tool for doing that which is software only. There are definitely (probably very) expensive diagnostic tools for DVI and HDMI testing which would tell you in depth what's in the EDID or E-EDID block ("E-EDID" is the "Enhanced Extended Display Identification Data", to which VESA has added things like the device's capability to handle sound). The driver for a good graphics adapter might display all of the resolution modes that a display says it can handle in on one of the pages of its properties dialog.

It's possible. It's also possible that in previous versions, it didn't pay any attention to the supported resolutions listed in the E-EDID block.
Yes, this was not always the case. It was introduced through a 8300 software upgrade one day around 6 months ago (in NYC).

Yes, this was not always the case. It was introduced through a 8300 software upgrade one day around 6 months ago (in NYC).
I don't think we know if it used to work and now it doesn't, or if it didn't work before and still doesn't work, but for a different reason. :confused:

I don't think we know if it used to work and now it doesn't, or if it didn't work before and still doesn't work, but for a different reason. :confused:
In my experience, I could activate any resolution over HDMI with the older software. One day, the box locked to 1080i only, and trying to change it manually wouldn't "stick". I had to mess around with a Gefen external video splitter, getting a special "fake the EDID" chip from them to trick the 8300 into sending 480p and 720p as well. I spent lots of time researching this, and I'm confident that the problems are EDID related. Lumagen is also working on a new software release for their scaler to address this particular issue.

For earlier discussions regarding this, you can check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6873305

and also (from the Lumagen forum)

http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=436&start=0&rid=211&S=475b4109e8f02e1efb69d95578788340

In my experience, I could activate any resolution over HDMI with the older software. One day, the box locked to 1080i only, and trying to change it manually wouldn't "stick".
Right-o! But was it not paying attention to the EDID before and now it is, but incorrectly? While your workaround . . works, it's like treating a symptom instead of the disease. That's OK, though, as long as it "works." :)

Right-o! But was it not paying attention to the EDID before and now it is, but incorrectly? While your workaround . . works, it's like treating a symptom instead of the disease. That's OK, though, as long as it "works." :)
Yes, that's my impression. There is a big potential for finger-pointing here, since SA/Pioneer would probably just claim that they are following the correct standard and it's all the fault of the display/scaler. Many displays/switches/scalers have poorly implemented EDID blocks (like my Panasonic plasma over DVI), so just letting the user select what they want to enable would be much better. I suspect this may have something to do with limiting calls to cable tech support when someone selects an unsupported resolution and the picture disappears. I added some links to earlier discussions about this the my previous post.

Slightly different topic. I have an 8300HD DVR with Passport 1.8.112 (Central FL BHN). The unit was set to record the series "24" on Fox 1135 new episodes only every time it was on. Normal time was Monday 9-10. There was a special 2 hour season final which started at 8PM (One hour earlier). I went to check on the DVR at about 8:45 and noticed it was not recording! I immediately started the recorder missing the first 45 minutes. I believe I have seen behavior like this before.

On planned schedule changes like this one, shouldn't the DVR record the full 2 hours? It's record option states any time it is on or is that a falsehood? Did any one else have the same problem? I never had this with my old DVR's (Tivo's). It is bad enough when 60 minutes runs over as it often does due to a sporting event run over, or when the President takes over the networks for one of his "very important" messages to the nation (Perhaps the white house should have its own channel, and in that way they could see how many people tune in, if it was by subscription it would really be interesting). I can understand in that case why the DVR does not adjust, but when the schedule change is announced two weeks in advance I do not understand.

Anyone care to clarify?

In this case, it sounds like the scheduled recording was nothing more than a "timer" and didn't use the "name based recording" ability that the box has, a la TiVo.

We haven't missed any recordings -- that we know of -- because they were on at a different time or day.

When setting up the series recording options, don't be too strict with the rules. In your case, maybe there was an error in the "New" vs "Repeat" flag and your DVR saw it as a rerun and not a new episode (???).

I learned not to use the "new episodes only" recording option; the guide data isn't always accurate. Sometimes, it's just not specific: occasional entries aren't marked as either new or repeat and with the option on, it won't record it if it's not marked "new".

It's a terrible shame that you had to miss the beginning of the season finale of 24. My series-recording entry did record all of it (not to rub it in; just saying that it does work).

Can confirm the 1080i resolution lock (HDMI from box to DVI on TV). Was not able to go to 720p for example. Using 8300HD and Panny 50 8HDUK.

Using TWC SA8300HD with a Panasonic widescreen plasma. I'm on my second DVR, the old one was replaced for a noisy hardrive. Noticed that the GUIDE was not taking up the entire screen width on non HD channels. Called TWC; their telephone support failed to help; they sent out a tech who messed with my setup for about half an hour & finally got the GUIDE to display the entire screen width for SD channels. He said that I need to add 480i as an output resolution and set the aspect ration to 4:3 and letterbox 16:9. This last part seemed opposite of what you would expect. After a few days my GUIDE is back to not covering the full width of the screen & I've tried all the settings it seems. So, I know it's possible. Any ideas on how to recover this functionality? TIA

Time Warner SA8300HD DVR w/Passport
Panasonic TH-50PX60U
HDMI connection

I subscribe to TWCNC and have the SA 8300 HD with the Passport 2.5.048 software. I called TWCNC to verify that the SATA is enabled for the SA 8300 HD and with this software and in the Raleigh/Durham area. The answer was "yes." With that information, I ordered a Maxtor quickview expander 300 drive, so that I could increase storage beyond the 160 GB of the internal drive in the SA 8300 HD. I received the drive and followed the instructions, i.e., invoking a hard boot of the SA 8300 HD after the external drive had been powered up and connected (with an eSATA/SATA II cable). The hard boot was invoked by turning off the SA, then unplugging it, and then re-plugging it. When I did this, the system booted as usual but did not recognize the external drive. I then tried a warm boot, by pressing the VOL+ and VOL- buttons together (on the box, not the remote controller) and then pressing the INFO button. This also booted the system in the regular way, but again the boot failed to recognize the external drive. Questions to TWCNC are deflected by advice to "visit the AVS Forum." I have done this and have not found a solution to my problem. Do any of you know a way that I might be able to get the SA 8300 HD to recognize the external drive? If so, I would be MOST GRATEFUL for your help! Thank you!!

I subscribe to TWCNC and have the SA 8300 HD with the Passport 2.5.048 software. I called TWCNC to verify that the SATA is enabled for the SA 8300 HD and with this software and in the Raleigh/Durham area. The answer was "yes." With that information, I ordered a Maxtor quickview expander 300 drive, so that I could increase storage beyond the 160 GB of the internal drive in the SA 8300 HD. I received the drive and followed the instructions, i.e., invoking a hard boot of the SA 8300 HD after the external drive had been powered up and connected (with an eSATA/SATA II cable). The hard boot was invoked by turning off the SA, then unplugging it, and then re-plugging it. When I did this, the system booted as usual but did not recognize the external drive. I then tried a warm boot, by pressing the VOL+ and VOL- buttons together (on the box, not the remote controller) and then pressing the INFO button. This also booted the system in the regular way, but again the boot failed to recognize the external drive. Questions to TWCNC are deflected by advice to "visit the AVS Forum." I have done this and have not found a solution to my problem. Do any of you know a way that I might be able to get the SA 8300 HD to recognize the external drive?
Wow! Visit AVS Forum for tech support. What a bonehead. The SATA port is NOT supported by the Passport software running on the 8300HD, so the CSR was off the reservation when he told you the 8300HD supported it. Having said that, others have gotten it to work - in a fashion - and yours should as well. Absent the technical expertise to test and diagnose the STBs and hard drives, that leaves substitution of known working devices. Understandably, buying another Quickview Expander is probably not in the cards, so you might want to pester TWC for another 8300HD. I'd also mention the idiot who told you that it was enabled in the first place, and make sure you pass along his AVS Forum comment. I'd climb the support ladder 'til I got to a supervisor.

I wish I could be more help, but the SATA is just not officially supported. As such, we are stumbling along in the dark on it. Thanks for bringing your problem here. I expect someone here will be somewhat more helpful than I was. I am still reeling from them telling you to come here for tech support. :)

I learned not to use the "new episodes only" recording option; the guide data isn't always accurate. Sometimes, it's just not specific: occasional entries aren't marked as either new or repeat and with the option on, it won't record it if it's not marked "new".

It's a terrible shame that you had to miss the beginning of the season finale of 24. My series-recording entry did record all of it (not to rub it in; just saying that it does work).

it worked for me as well. The only occasions I can remember when the unit didn't record a show were all related to a hard drive failure. The drive used to freeze and put the unit in a coma until a hard reboot.

I subscribe to TWCNC and have the SA 8300 HD with the Passport 2.5.048 software. I called TWCNC to verify that the SATA is enabled for the SA 8300 HD and with this software and in the Raleigh/Durham area. The answer was "yes." With that information, I ordered a Maxtor quickview expander 300 drive, so that I could increase storage beyond the 160 GB of the internal drive in the SA 8300 HD. I received the drive and followed the instructions, i.e., invoking a hard boot of the SA 8300 HD after the external drive had been powered up and connected (with an eSATA/SATA II cable). The hard boot was invoked by turning off the SA, then unplugging it, and then re-plugging it. When I did this, the system booted as usual but did not recognize the external drive. I then tried a warm boot, by pressing the VOL+ and VOL- buttons together (on the box, not the remote controller) and then pressing the INFO button. This also booted the system in the regular way, but again the boot failed to recognize the external drive. Questions to TWCNC are deflected by advice to "visit the AVS Forum." I have done this and have not found a solution to my problem. Do any of you know a way that I might be able to get the SA 8300 HD to recognize the external drive? If so, I would be MOST GRATEFUL for your help! Thank you!!


I received a nice note through a response to a private message, advising that I (1) power down the SA 8300 HD, (2) unplug the eSATA cable from the SA 8300, (3) re-power the SA 8300, and (4) plug the eSATA cable back in after completion of booting by the SA 8300. I did this and the SA 8300 presented a prompt for formatting the external drive, just what was missing before! I answered "yes" to the prompt and everything now works, with a tremendous and welcome increase in storage capacity! I hope others might find this experience helpful.

I learned not to use the "new episodes only" recording option; the guide data isn't always accurate. Sometimes, it's just not specific: occasional entries aren't marked as either new or repeat and with the option on, it won't record it if it's not marked "new".
I don't know what the difference is in our situations, but the "new episodes only" has always worked for me. And it catches the odd 2-hour season finale properly w/o intervention.

I received a nice note through a response to a private message, advising that I (1) power down the SA 8300 HD, (2) unplug the eSATA cable from the SA 8300, (3) re-power the SA 8300, and (4) plug the eSATA cable back in after completion of booting by the SA 8300. I did this and the SA 8300 presented a prompt for formatting the external drive, just what was missing before! I answered "yes" to the prompt and everything now works, with a tremendous and welcome increase in storage capacity! I hope others might find this experience helpful.I'm willing to bet that you will also find that you cannot REW or FF through the buffer while watching "live" television. Some people have reported that the PAUSE button freezes things, but when they try to resume it puts them back in real-time, missing everything that happened since they pressed PAUSE. Others with 2.5.051 have stated that PAUSE works with playback resuming where they left off, but with no ability to FF.

Some folks need the space enough that they don't care--the trick-play functions work fine on playback of recordings.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Twice now I started recording a program after it was already in progress. There was a full hour buffer, so the data was there to record from the beginning of the program. Later when I checked the recording, it showed that the program started on the hour and finished an hour later. However, when I started to play it back, it was obvious that there was not a full hour available. The beginning of the program was recorded, but it stopped at about the time I started the recording. I am pretty sure that with an earlier version of the software, it would record the full hour.

Currently I have version 2.5.051. There seems to be an endless parade of problems with this version. I wish they had debugged the code before foisting it upon us.

Cynthia

Couple weeks ago GUIDE started acting funny, pressing the INFO button brought up the normal window, but without the rest of the description from the GUIDE page, just what looks like the last line of what it used to display. Originally this was happening a lot, now I see it about half the time and it appears channel related.

I have an easy question that im sure has been covered here.

How do I reboot the 8300 besides unplugging it. isnt there a button combo on the front that i press?

Reason I ask is because every time I switch sources on my TV to watch a DVD or whatever, my damn 8300 displays snow when I switch back to it. anyone figure out a fix for these boxes doing this with HDMI yet?

thanks

How do I reboot the 8300 besides unplugging it. isnt there a button combo on the front that i press?
Press and hold Power button

Reason I ask is because every time I switch sources on my TV to watch a DVD or whatever, my damn 8300 displays snow when I switch back to it. anyone figure out a fix for these boxes doing this with HDMI yet?
Yes, this happens. All you need to do is change channels (up/down), not re-boot