Guess I read too many "Official Abbreviations of US States" pamphlets. "SD" means "South Dakota" to me.

Maybe the wrong forum??? Where else to post??

How many lines can I have coming into my house from TW? They are giving me problems about having too many splitters.

I have one line coming in from the street with lots of splitters that go to"

Roadrunner cable modem from TW
1 SD TV - no cable box - Basic Cable only
1 SD TV with TW digital SD box
2 HD TVs with 8300s running Passport
1 TiVo Series-2 that gets its signal from a TW SD digital box
1 TiVo Series-3
4 VCRs
2 Pioneer DVRs

I know it's overkill, but I love all my equipment and the flexibility that I have with it.

I was getting everything fine except for Discovery HD. Cable guy today said I have too many splitters. While I wasn't looking, he took one out and connected the cable directly to a HDTV then left with the splitter. I now get Discovery HD, but the line to Pioneer DVR and VCR is gone.

What is TW responsible for as to how many lines I can request/demand coming into the house?

Thanks, CB

Maybe the wrong forum??? Where else to post??

How many lines can I have coming into my house from TW? They are giving me problems about having too many splitters.

I have one line coming in from the street with lots of splitters that go to"

Roadrunner cable modem from TW
1 SD TV - no cable box - Basic Cable only
1 SD TV with TW digital SD box
2 HD TVs with 8300s running Passport
1 TiVo Series-2 that gets its signal from a TW SD digital box
1 TiVo Series-3
4 VCRs
2 Pioneer DVRs

I know it's overkill, but I love all my equipment and the flexibility that I have with it.

I was getting everything fine except for Discovery HD. Cable guy today said I have too many splitters. While I wasn't looking, he took one out and connected the cable directly to a HDTV then left with the splitter. I now get Discovery HD, but the line to Pioneer DVR and VCR is gone.

What is TW responsible for as to how many lines I can request/demand coming into the house?

Thanks, CB
He might have needed to do that to get signal level up to an acceptable number. The more you split a signal the lower it becomes. Too low a signal and you've got problems. Sometimes the effects of too low a signal will be seen on a channel or range of channels first before affecting all of them. Discovery HD was your canary in the coal mine. I have a very good signal level coming in that the cableco split 5-ways - three to digital DVR/STBs, one to my cable modem and the other to my amplifier which then goes to all of my analog TVs (without STBs). You might be able to get them to run an additional line to your house. Ask.

TWC-SD. I took that to mean San Diego.And someone else took it to mean South Dakota. The point is that it's helpful, and considerate, to add a useful location to your profile and not have to post it separately every time you post a question/comment. It also keeps others from having to ask in order to provide an accurate answer. What's so secret about your location anyway? I personally don't respond anymore to any post without a location where the location would be useful. And I don't waste bandwidth asking for one either. If everyone did that, maybe some folks would get the hint and there'd be less wasted bandwidth. It's not like the suggestion/request isn't post here on a regular basis, sheesh!

He might have needed to do that to get signal level up to an acceptable number. The more you split a signal the lower it becomes. Too low a signal and you've got problems. Sometimes the effects of too low a signal will be seen on a channel or range of channels first before affecting all of them. Discovery HD was your canary in the coal mine. I have a very good signal level coming in that the cableco split 5-ways - three to digital DVR/STBs, one to my cable modem and the other to my amplifier which then goes to all of my analog TVs (without STBs). You might be able to get them to run an additional line to your house. Ask.

I'll call tomorrow and ask. As a customer, do I have a right to demand that they add another line? Do they have a responsibility to provide me with adequate signal regardless of the number of TVs I might have?
CB

I'll call tomorrow and ask. As a customer, do I have a right to demand that they add another line? Do they have a responsibility to provide me with adequate signal regardless of the number of TVs I might have?
CBI'm not sure about that. I know several folks have said they've got more than one drop coming to the house, but I don't believe they ever said just how that happened. I've always been under the impression that each line run from the central drop should at least support a TV and VCR, but I don't think there is anything that requires even that.

IMHO, the tech should not have removed the splitter without some discussion of what the other options were. I know there are plenty of homes around with 5-6 bedrooms, living room, family room, etc., but then maybe that's when you get into high-tech distribution systems. It costs nothing to call and discuss it, though you may have to get to someone other than a first line CSR.

I'm not sure about that. I know several folks have said they've got more than one drop coming to the house, but I don't believe they ever said just how that happened. I've always been under the impression that each line run from the central drop should at least support a TV and VCR, but I don't think there is anything that requires even that.

IMHO, the tech should not have removed the splitter without some discussion of what the other options were. I know there are plenty of homes around with 5-6 bedrooms, living room, family room, etc., but then maybe that's when you get into high-tech distribution systems. It costs nothing to call and discuss it, though you may have to get to someone other than a first line CSR.

Check this amp out http://www.cabletvamps.com/whatsnew.htm. I'm using two of them in series for all my sets and they work great. I think the $95 is worth not getting frustrated and waisting time with dealing the cable co. Besides I found the results much better.

I'll call tomorrow and ask. As a customer, do I have a right to demand that they add another line? Do they have a responsibility to provide me with adequate signal regardless of the number of TVs I might have?
CB
They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. To the extent that that is negatively impacted by subscriber satisfaction, they will try to make you happy. I don't think I'd want to appear to be "demanding" anything though. ;)

Check this amp out http://www.cabletvamps.com/whatsnew.htm. I'm using two of them in series for all my sets and they work great. I think the $95 is worth not getting frustrated and waisting time with dealing the cable co. Besides I found the results much better.
I've had an amp in my house for 17 years (the age of the house) and most cable techs have treated it with benign neglect. When I first installed it, "we" had just became aware that if we do the work ourselves, the cable company could not charge us another $2.00/mo for "additional" sets. However, if they didn't install it and Im not paying them for it, then they do not "support" it. Some techs, as a first resort would remove my gear from the system so they could troubleshoot. Recently, techs have been more intelligent about it and only removed a piece of my equipment if it was necessary to find and/or remedy the problem. I no longer interfere with (read: amplify) the homeruns from the cableco-supplied splitter to my cable modem and digital STBs.

I've had an amp in my house for 17 years (the age of the house) and most cable techs have treated it with benign neglect. When I first installed it, "we" had just became aware that if we do the work ourselves, the cable company could not charge us another $2.00/mo for "additional" sets. However, if they didn't install it and Im not paying them for it, then they do not "support" it. Some techs, as a first resort would remove my gear from the system so they could troubleshoot. Recently, techs have been more intelligent about it and only removed a piece of my equipment if it was necessary to find and/or remedy the problem. I no longer interfere with (read: amplify) the homeruns from the cableco-supplied splitter to my cable modem and digital STBs.

I had the reverse situation happen when I had TWC install phone service. In fact they ran the modem off of one of the ports of my amp. Road Runner is also off of one of the ports. The tech said they use to use these amps but they stopped because of the cost.
I'm wondering if your amp was not bi-directional causing a service problem and their DIY attitude.

I had the reverse situation happen when I had TWC install phone service. In fact they ran the modem off of one of the ports of my amp. Road Runner is also off of one of the ports. The tech said they use to use these amps but they stopped because of the cost.
I'm wondering if your amp was not bi-directional causing a service problem and their DIY attitude.
It is bi and with sufficient bandwidth. More connections to go bad, perhaps? The tech said "we like direct lines" and "you have good levels" and that was enough for me to leave my hands off of it. If it works . . .

I don't know how you can complain about LOCAL commercials, when you can't be bothered to ADD YOUR LOCATION TO YOUR PROFILE (please).

A truly clever person might have inferred that the "TWC-SD" in question was in San Diego, as the quote being responded to in the offending post was posted by someone (holl_ands) in San Diego, and also mentioned "TWC-SD." :p

But for the truly unclever, I have added my location. :D

A truly clever person might have inferred that the "TWC-SD" in question was in San Diego, as the quote being responded to in the offending post was posted by someone (holl_ands) in San Diego, and also mentioned "TWC-SD." :p

But for the truly unclever, I have added my location. :D
Really? Where?

Really? Where?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10741966&&#post10741966

:)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10741966&&#post10741966

:)
I'm not a harpy on this like some, but I guess I'm the on-duty hall monitor right now; we need your location, cable company, software and software version in order to properly help with problems. And that needs to go in your sig. Your location under your join date doesn't cut it. :)

I'm not a harpy on this like some, but I guess I'm the on-duty hall monitor right now; we need your location, cable company, software and software version in order to properly help with problems. And that needs to go in your sig. Your location under your join date doesn't cut it. :)


If I didn't have a 8300HD with Passport software on TWC, wouldn't I be in the wrong forum to begin with? ;)

If I didn't have a 8300HD with Passport software on TWC, wouldn't I be in the wrong forum to begin with? ;)
You would be, but many are. ;) So, we do not a-s-s-u-m-e. The version is relevant, too. And most of us have probably not memorized what company serves what area.

This is nothing more than a request, the purpose of which has already been 'splained, which you can choose to ignore and/or possibly get another joust or two out of us before we give up on you. :rolleyes:

coati858,

Thanks for adding your location. It's unfortunate the other info wasn't included in the request, but those of us who have been here awhile like to have software and version info in the sig (or Rank area) too. This has made it a lot easier to answer questions without the back and forth to get that info or the need to remember it from one post to another. Cableco's have been notorious for updating softwarte on their own schedules and oftentimes there have been 3-4 different versions being used, each with different capabilities, workarounds, etc.

I'm not going to harp on this, but I felt a little more explanation of where we are coming from was in order. We try to provide as much help as we can and all we ask is a little cooperation in this area. My personal thought though is that what do we do if every forum we participated in requested similar info? There is not enough room allowed for sigs to accommodate all such requests. But, as long as folks actively participate in this and other 8300 threads, expect to be "hounded" for the info. :)

Guess I read too many "Official Abbreviations of US States" pamphlets. "SD" means "South Dakota" to me.

And you would be absolutely correct. But in this context, San Diego makes more sense (to me anyway) as most folks identify the city and not the state.

If I didn't have a 8300HD with Passport software on TWC, wouldn't I be in the wrong forum to begin with? ;)
Thanks for adding your location (I assume that it is San Diego, CA). The point that I was making, and others have confirmed, is that it is really a local cable issue and that in many (not all) areas it has really been largely (there are exceptions) fixed. For some types of issues, having all the other stuff is good too, but for the larger areas (such as San Diego) knowing the location tells many of the astute members the version of Passport (yes the version can be important too). But the location does go 70% of the way.

Thanks

Ok so I thought we had it fixed but we dont. I am still having trouble getting audio from the 8300HD to my Onkyo 604. I hooked the HDMI into the tv directly and ran a optical cable to the reciever and setup the 8300 to Dolby digital for audio out. I get no audio out of the onkyo. What do I do?

Ok so I thought we had it fixed but we dont. I am still having trouble getting audio from the 8300HD to my Onkyo 604. I hooked the HDMI into the tv directly and ran a optical cable to the reciever and setup the 8300 to Dolby digital for audio out. I get no audio out of the onkyo. What do I do?

Check all the settings on the Receiver end. For example, There may be a Coax/Optical setting that is not set correctly. The Receiver may be set to "DVR" and not "TV" etc.

Make sure that all Receiver settings are in fact correct. The wiring and 8300 selections appear to be correct.

If setting the 8300 to HDMI (not DD) also doesn't produce sound, then I'd really check the Onkyo settings. The only difference should be 2 channel when HDMI is selected, and DD5.1 when DD is selected on the 8300. No audio from either would have me checking the Receiver

Check all the settings on the Receiver end. For example, There may be a Coax/Optical setting that is not set correctly. The Receiver may be set to "DVR" and not "TV" etc.

Make sure that all Receiver settings are in fact correct. The wiring and 8300 selections appear to be correct.

If setting the 8300 to HDMI (not DD) also doesn't produce sound, then I'd really check the Onkyo settings. The only difference should be 2 channel when HDMI is selected, and DD5.1 when DD is selected on the 8300. No audio from either would have me checking the Receiver


Same advice here. My setup is as described above. HDMI to the TV and optical to the stand alone receiver.

Ok so I thought we had it fixed but we dont. I am still having trouble getting audio from the 8300HD to my Onkyo 604. I hooked the HDMI into the tv directly and ran a optical cable to the reciever and setup the 8300 to Dolby digital for audio out. I get no audio out of the onkyo. What do I do?

The optical cable went from the 8300 to the AVR, right? And the AVR was set to it's optical input, right? That SHOULD work...

What would be the surest external drive enclosure that's known to work with the 8300HD?

I've heard all kinds of random problems with different external drives and drive enclosures, After seeing the 750GB Seagate 'FreeAgent Pro' external drive is known not to work with the 8300HD, I just got a 400GB internal Seagate drive and I'm wondering next if the enclosure I chose might conflict with the 8300HD.

Anyone running a particular enclosure on an 8300HD without problems?

R_G,

If you read his other posts in another thread, he is able to get "perfect" sound when connecting the 8300 to the TV directly via HDMI. That by itself tells me there is something amiss with the Onkyo. It appears he was/is running the 8300 to the Onkyo via HDMI and then to the TV via HDMI. This latest post makes it unclear how he now goes from the Onkyo to the TV, if he now goes from the 8300 directly to the TV via HDMI. It's also unclear if he ever got/gets sound with his Onkyo and if this is a new problem that cropped up with new software a few months ago.

He did add the optical cable from the 8300 to the Onkyo, but he didn't mention if he changed the Onkyo settings (assuming there are some) to now look for sound from the optical input and not the HDMI input, as you suggested. His other posts indicate that Onkyo knows there is/may be a problem with the HDMI passing sound, but they (and he) blame the 8300, which may or may not be the (only) cause.

If he connects the 8300 to the TV via HDMI, sets the Digital Audio Out to DD, connects the 8300 to the Onkyo via digital optical cable, and sets the Onkyo to look for sound on that input, it should all work, unless using HDMI is disabling the optical audio out with his software and cableco. Testing with a Component connection would tell, but he (and others) seem to be reluctant to switch connections to try to determine where the problem really lies. We all know there are problems with HDMI in various setups and it can be frustrating trying to troubleshoot, but if one wants to find a solution, one has to be open to trying suggestions.

What would be the surest external drive enclosure that's known to work with the 8300HD?

I've heard all kinds of random problems with different external drives and drive enclosures, After seeing the 750GB Seagate 'FreeAgent Pro' external drive is known not to work with the 8300HD, I just got a 400GB internal Seagate drive and I'm wondering next if the enclosure I chose might conflict with the 8300HD.

Anyone running a particular enclosure on an 8300HD without problems?
You might try checking the SATA thread and reviewing the databases referenced in the first post there.

The only problem with the signature is it can take older posts out of context for those who move, change provider, software versions, etc. (making the implicit assumption that there is value in referencing older posts)

Anyone glancing any of my older PASSPORT comments might stare a bit at a (current) SARA signature and different location...


v/r,
C-F

R_G,

If you read his other posts in another thread, he is able to get "perfect" sound when connecting the 8300 to the TV directly via HDMI. That by itself tells me there is something amiss with the Onkyo. It appears he was/is running the 8300 to the Onkyo via HDMI and then to the TV via HDMI. This latest post makes it unclear how he now goes from the Onkyo to the TV, if he now goes from the 8300 directly to the TV via HDMI. It's also unclear if he ever got/gets sound with his Onkyo and if this is a new problem that cropped up with new software a few months ago.

He did add the optical cable from the 8300 to the Onkyo, but he didn't mention if he changed the Onkyo settings (assuming there are some) to now look for sound from the optical input and not the HDMI input, as you suggested. His other posts indicate that Onkyo knows there is/may be a problem with the HDMI passing sound, but they (and he) blame the 8300, which may or may not be the (only) cause.

If he connects the 8300 to the TV via HDMI, sets the Digital Audio Out to DD, connects the 8300 to the Onkyo via digital optical cable, and sets the Onkyo to look for sound on that input, it should all work, unless using HDMI is disabling the optical audio out with his software and cableco. Testing with a Component connection would tell, but he (and others) seem to be reluctant to switch connections to try to determine where the problem really lies. We all know there are problems with HDMI in various setups and it can be frustrating trying to troubleshoot, but if one wants to find a solution, one has to be open to trying suggestions.

Thanks for the response. First off, the Onkyo is setup right each time I try a new configuration. This is not something to Onkyo has created. I have always had the 8300 going HDMI to the receiver then HDMI to the TV. On occassion it would drop the audio but it always came back. Recently it doesnt come back. Last night I was able to get it working by running an optical cable from the 8300 to the receiver and a HDMI cable to the TV from the 8300 and setting the 8300 to DD for audio and of course setting the Onkyo to optical 1 which is where it is hooked up. If I switch the 8300 to HDMI for audio I get audio from the TV. When I switch it to DD for audio I get nothing from the TV or the Onkyo. It seems to have locked up my onkyo since it is looking for an audio signal that the 8300 isnt sending. What can I do to correct this? Do I need to access some hidden menu to set it up right? I have had 3 or 4 of these POS 8300s and I am about ready to scream over this latest disaster and the incompetence that everyone at NC TWC seems to share. Please tell me someone knows what to do!?!?!?!

Please tell me someone knows what to do!?!?!?!I don't know for sure, but I doubt there is any hidden setting in Passport. It sounds like everything is connected and set correctly.

I'm still a little confused though. You say you got it to work, but then seem to say you only get audio through the TV with the 8300 set to HDMI. With the current setup, have you ever had audio through the Onkyo? If you set the 8300 to DD and reboot (unplug/replug power card), do you then get audio through the Onkyo? Does it then go away through the Onkyo when you change to HDMI and back to DD? Or are you never able to get audio through the Onkyo?

It sure sounds to me like the HDMI connection is disabling the audio via the optical output. I seriously doubt the Onkyo is "locked up". I still think switching to Component temporarily might help identify the problem. If audio then works through the Onkyo, you will know something is wrong with the HDMI setup.

I seem to remember someone saying that they connected via Component, got everything working, then connect the HDMI with everything still on (and disconnecting the Component), and the problem was resolved. Only thing is I can't remember if this was the some problem with audio or an HDCP error of some kind or something else entirely.

Oh, and I'm no expert. I'm just throwing out ideas of things I would try to narrow down the problem. I know there are plenty of people using the same setup (maybe different AVR/TV/software though) without any audio problems, so it does work. Mine works fine with my Denon, Component, and SARA.

Why should the software version Passport/SARA cause different incompatibilities with external hardware?

I understand that either the external eSATA port is enabled or disabled, but the hardware compatibility should be the same for all 8300HDs regardless of their software, right? Shouldn't hardware compatibility be decided at a lower firmware level before the IPG software either Passport/SARA is put on top?

I am trying to understand how Seagate 7200.10 drives seem to have more success on Passport 8300HDs but not on SARA 8300HDs

wraunch: try a coaxial digital connection for audio. No one has touched on it yet, but it is possible that the optical circuitry is not working.

Why should the software version Passport/SARA cause different incompatibilities with external hardware?

I understand that either the external eSATA port is enabled or disabled, but the hardware compatibility should be the same for all 8300HDs regardless of their software, right? Shouldn't hardware compatibility be decided at a lower firmware level before the IPG software either Passport/SARA is put on top?There was mention of changes to HDMI support in the release notes for SARA 1.89 that I left out of the first post in the SARA thread simply because there was no other info provided. However, that implies that there is some software involved beyond simply enabling the port. Also, there have been other posts indicating TV/AVR firmware updates have fixed HDMI problems. I assume much of this really has to do with HDCP, as they are often lumped together in discussions. In this day and age, I don't think it's a simple on/off issue anymore, there's almost always some processing going on.

wraunch: try a coaxial digital connection for audio. No one has touched on it yet, but it is possible possible that the optical circuitry is not working.Might as well see if there is light coming through the optical cable. :)

Why should the software version Passport/SARA cause different incompatibilities with external hardware?

I understand that either the external eSATA port is enabled or disabled, but the hardware compatibility should be the same for all 8300HDs regardless of their software, right? Shouldn't hardware compatibility be decided at a lower firmware level before the IPG software either Passport/SARA is put on top?

I am trying to understand how Seagate 7200.10 drives seem to have more success on Passport 8300HDs but not on SARA 8300HDsrcll, I understand yor thinking - but there is a thread devoted to the external drive here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=1&pp=30) - as has been mentioned before.

I am trying to understand how Seagate 7200.10 drives seem to have more success on Passport 8300HDs but not on SARA 8300HDs
Given all we don't know about attaching external drives to our 8300HDs, you might need to devote your life to this research. Or you could go with the flow and use a combo that has had universal success. Your choice. :)

Might as well see if there is light coming through the optical cable. :)

Oh, when there are too many pigeons on the terrace outside my bedroom, I turn on all the stuff and unplug the optical cable and use it as a ray gun. Drops those flying rats instantly!

I DID find out one additional twist. I have stated that with the current Passport rev (in my market) if one enables HDMI for audio, audio will simultaneously go out the optical cable. This is true but I found out it goes out in PCM stereo, not DD 5.1.

Damn, I never would have prattled on like I did if I realized the hookup was HDMI from 8300 to AVR!

I DID find out one additional twist. I have stated that with the current Passport rev (in my market) if one enables HDMI for audio, audio will simultaneously go out the optical cable. This is true but I found out it goes out in PCM stereo, not DD 5.1.

That's because the TV only accepts PCM over HDMI, and the 8300 can only output one format at a time, therefore the optical gets PCM also.

That's because the TV only accepts PCM over HDMI, and the 8300 can only output one format at a time, therefore the optical gets PCM also.I could be wrong, but I think R_G's point is that with either setting (HDMI or DD), there should be sound on the optical output.

I could be wrong, but I think R_G's point is that with either setting (HDMI or DD), there should be sound on the optical output.

Ah. If that was his point then I would agree with that point. :)

Ok so last night I tried the dig. coax and it didn't help any. So I plugged the optical back in and switched the 8300 to DD and got nothing out of it. Then I switched to HDMI and got sound from the tv and about 5 mins later the Onkyo started outputting DD 5.1. This was with the 8300 set to audio out > HDMI. Ideas?

Ok so last night I tried the dig. coax and it didn't help any. So I plugged the optical back in and switched the 8300 to DD and got nothing out of it. Then I switched to HDMI and got sound from the tv and about 5 mins later the Onkyo started outputting DD 5.1. This was with the 8300 set to audio out > HDMI. Ideas?I was totally lost a long time ago. :) I have no idea what would cause that.

Sorry if this is covered in the thread, but it's hard to search for.

Have you all experienced your 8300 constantly putting out a signal over HDMI, even when the box is powered off? It's really annoying because my projector searches for a source, and always finds the HDMI signal from my cable box. It's weird, sometimes audio (over toslink) and video over the HDMI port comes through. It's particularly annoying because it adds more complexity to my setup, which makes it hard on my wife. I have to have her turn on the projector, then the dvd player, then switch sources. If she switches the source before turning on the DVD player it will just auto sense the cable box and switch.

Any fixes for this if you all have seen it? I am pretty sure it does this regardless of me having it going through my 4 port HDMI monoprice switcher.

TexRob, how's Clayton these days? I am from Garner!

TexRob, how's Clayton these days? I am from Garner!

It's great...when I'm there. I am trying to find a job in the Raleigh area. My wife and I moved to Clayton in March, and I have been working on a government project in DC since January. Anyone know someone hiring Senior Network Engineer/Analysts?

TexRob, how's Clayton these days? I am from Garner!
So, how did you know he was from Clayton? Oh wait, I see, he's got it in his Profile, how novel.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

I could be wrong, but I think R_G's point is that with either setting (HDMI or DD), there should be sound on the optical output.

Actually, we both are correct, but approached the issue and describe why very differently.

It IS true that I prefer things to be very well ordered and thus believe the 8300 SHOULD send nothing via optical IF it's set to HDMI... that doesn't logically follow from it NOT sending any audio via HDMI if it's set to Dolby Digital.

I am from Garner!

I thought she just had her first kid??? I reviewed a bunch of images of her and the kid yesterday and lemme tell you, she's still got it!

Hillarious. Not Jennifer Garner, there is actually a town known as Garner in NC.

Riverside Guy,
I agree with you completely on the audio.

I thought she just had her first kid??? I reviewed a bunch of images of her and the kid yesterday and lemme tell you, she's still got it!
hahaha, this post had me scrambling to see who was being discussed. and then i saw wraunch's reply. rothfl

hahaha, this post had me scrambling to see who was being discussed. and then i saw wraunch's reply. rothflThat was funny, wasn't it? Even I might have picked up on that were it not for a discussion in another thread on adding a location to your profile. Guess we're just going to have to give up on folks telling us their secret locations. Then again, maybe with OCAP, etc., location, cableco, and the rest of it won't be that important anymore. :)

Hey Pepar, I made a crack about my Pepar Cynic's hat in another thread and I think Dave indicated he wanted to buy one too. There's a sales opportunity for ya!

Hey Pepar, I made a crack about my Pepar Cynic's hat in another thread and I think Dave indicated he wanted to buy one too. There's a sales opportunity for ya!
The national organization would drum me out if I started selling merchandise. :cool:

Does anyone know if the SA8300 DVR will output video over both HDMI & the component outputs? I currently have my TV connected directly to the DVR using HDMI, but I want to make a secondary component connection to my Yamaha AVR which I used for switching video for DVD, VCR, etc. When I try to switch my AVR input to the 8300 I don't get a video signal(DVD comes through ok). Is the HDMI connection shutting down the component video out in the 8300?

In the HDTV Setup Manual (old, only mentions DVI, not HDMI) it says:

"The analog Y, Pb, Pr ports become inactive when the HDTV is connected to the DVI port."

I'd think this probably also applies to the DMI port.

I am pretty sure that of a cable is plugged into the HDMI output port of the 8300, Component is shut down.

Video out was very much a version thing. When I started a year ago, it WOULD allow video out both HDMI and component. That was how I tested for differences between the two. With the advent of 2.6.x, it seems to not even be as simple; I had troubles getting HDMI re-synced, AND had to make sure a "switch" involved removing the "previous" connection's cable from both pieces of equipment!

AND had to make sure a "switch" involved removing the "previous" connection's cable from both pieces of equipment!
:confused: Why *both* pieces?

Because my Samsung sees an unattached cable as a possible source. I had to disattach the component cable (which had been previously unplugged from the STB) before I could get the STB and the TV to sync via HDMI. It could be true that others sets may exhibit the same kind of behavior.

Of course, I assume that when folks see me say X, they also see what equipment I have and that I can only say it for that equipment... every time I see someone say "I did this and that happened" I look to see what equipment, knowing there could be big differences. It's meaningless to say "this happened" sans data on what we are talking about!

Because my Samsung sees an unattached cable as a possible source.
That would suggest that there's some sort of physical sensor for an attached cable even if the opposite end is unattached.

<Johnny Carson>I did not know that.</Johnny Carson> :)

Nor sure about a physical sensor, I would tend to doubt that (they read impedance by having a wire attached???). When I first deployed the set, I saw only inputs that had something attached would be "enabled." Soon found that even without anything hooked to the wire, it still as an enabled input (that will do a "looking for signal" for a bit, then a "no signal found." But still enabled as a possible input choice.

Here is an article (http://www.cable360.net/print/ct/operations/bestpractices/23213.html) from TW (which is a surprise in itself) explaining HDMI and the HDCP handshake issues.

Though this article still doesn't explain why the 8300 "thinks" a display is connected when one isn't - it does point out the role of the "Hotplug Detect" pin 19, which I initially thought was what a explanation.

Anyway, it's a good explanation from a cable perspective.

Nice article. Thanks for posting!

Intresting Dave.

I see you having some "intra-pair skew" with optivity <g> in another thread...

Intresting Dave.

I see you having some "intra-pair skew" with optivity <g> in another thread...Yeh, I've decided to follow some common advice and "not feed the trolls", so I'll be quiet there for awhile.

RE: my TW posting here: What I find interesting is someone at TW is apparently making some effort to educate their people on this issue.

That would suggest that there's some sort of physical sensor for an attached cable even if the opposite end is unattached.

<Johnny Carson>I did not know that.</Johnny Carson> :)

Not necessarily. If the circuitry is there in the host device (TV, STB, receiver, whatever), it'll detect the signal reflections from the unterminated end of the cable (due to impedance mismatch) and "know" that there's a cable attached.

Not necessarily. If the circuitry is there in the host device (TV, STB, receiver, whatever), it'll detect the signal reflections from the unterminated end of the cable (due to impedance mismatch) and "know" that there's a cable attached.
Yes, that's possible, but why would it want to know - and why would it care - that there's a cable attached if it goes to nothing?

Not necessarily. If the circuitry is there in the host device (TV, STB, receiver, whatever), it'll detect the signal reflections from the unterminated end of the cable (due to impedance mismatch) and "know" that there's a cable attached.Educated conjecture on my part - but it is more likely to be an internal pull-down resistor (in the connector) between pin 19 and ground pin 17. So when the cable is connected only on one end pin 19 is low, when connected on the other end the source pulls the line high. I don't have access to the detailed specs to know for sure, but this would be a logical explanation.

Not necessarily. If the circuitry is there in the host device (TV, STB, receiver, whatever), it'll detect the signal reflections from the unterminated end of the cable (due to impedance mismatch) and "know" that there's a cable attached.
Yup--pretty simple--the above is spot on....

Hot Plug Detect is usually +5 VDC supplied via a 1000 ohm resistor.
The Source detects whether (or not) positive voltage is present on input.

HDMI specs are available online from www.hdmi.org.

Yes, that's possible, but why would it want to know - and why would it care - that there's a cable attached if it goes to nothing?

Think of it like this... they only have "round robin" input switching where you can't go directly to a particular input. So it totally makes sense that only inpust having something in them should be "enabled." What ever they did to detect obviously falsely picks up unattached cables. How much more difficult or more expensive components to insure only actual equipment enables the part can only be guessed at by someone with en engineering degree (or the equivalent experience).

I read in another thread somewhere that it appears that the "wizard" doesn't exist on the Passport-versioned boxes. That really appears to be true. I was NOT able to get it to run either, but there's nothing in it that you can't do in the regular "Settings", then "A, More Settings".
Off the top of my head, I think you hold down "Info" and "Exit" on the front-panel. When the display reads "DIAG" release and press "Exit" again. If that doesn't work, try "Select" (the middle button in the up, down, left, right section) and "Info". In some cases, you may have to tune to channel 611. When you get in, use the up/down buttons either on the front-panel or the remote.
all the box parameters are visible on channel 999 for TWC Raleigh

One of my SA 8300HD rebooted itself this past weekend unprovoked. It is still running 2.6.002, but now it seems to have gained a Tivo-like feature. It now will only record one copy of a particular episode of a program instead of 4 copies of the same show. I used to have to manually cancel all the repeated showings of each week's Star Trek: Enterprise on HDNet. Since the reboot, I no longer have to do this. It seems to "know." Has anyone else noticed this?

One negative side-effect of the reboot is it seems to have missed about 30 laps of the F1 race which, for only the second time, I was enjoying in wide-screen, if not HD on Fox.

Thanks,
Ted

One of my SA 8300HD rebooted itself this past weekend unprovoked. It is still running 2.6.002, but now it seems to have gained a Tivo-like feature. It now will only record one copy of a particular episode of a program instead of 4 copies of the same show. I used to have to manually cancel all the repeated showings of each week's Star Trek: Enterprise on HDNet. Since the reboot, I no longer have to do this. It seems to "know." Has anyone else noticed this?

I will be looking for this as it is one of the things that drives me crazy coming from Tivo to the SA8300. I record Northern Exposure Universal HD and have to do a ton of manual management of recording schedule.


One negative side-effect of the reboot is it seems to have missed about 30 laps of the F1 race which, for only the second time, I was enjoying in wide-screen, if not HD on Fox.

I haven't watched the USGP yet (went to the race and am saving the broadcast for later) so this was the first look I had at F1 in 16x9 on Fox HD. I thought it looked great compared to what we get on Speed. Watching GP2 after F1 made me sad because after next week F1 will be back to looking like crap. Would love to see a real HD feed of the Pinnacle of Motorsports.

One of my SA 8300HD rebooted itself this past weekend unprovoked. It is still running 2.6.002, but now it seems to have gained a Tivo-like feature. It now will only record one copy of a particular episode of a program instead of 4 copies of the same show. I used to have to manually cancel all the repeated showings of each week's Star Trek: Enterprise on HDNet. Since the reboot, I no longer have to do this. It seems to "know." Has anyone else noticed this?

One negative side-effect of the reboot is it seems to have missed about 30 laps of the F1 race which, for only the second time, I was enjoying in wide-screen, if not HD on Fox.

Thanks,
Ted

Wow, really? I've long known that the "New" designation is not used for some shows, so I learned back then that one can select a certain time it's being shown and lock the recording to that time only (this applies to shows that actually DO have "new" shows as well as shows where they ALL are repeats). That was how I "got around" this issue.

BTW, there IS a trick involved... you can set a series recording and blithely change the time in it's settings, it will only offer the time of the show you selected and ALL. Enterprise is a good example, I have to set to record the 1 AM, Tuesday showing only.

it seems to have gained a Tivo-like feature. It now will only record one copy of a particular episode of a program instead of 4 copies of the same show. I used to have to manually cancel all the repeated showings of each week's Star Trek: Enterprise on HDNet. Since the reboot, I no longer have to do this. It seems to "know." Has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks,
Ted

You can trick it by setting up a manual recording by specifying time and channel.
CB

I recently tried to use an HDMI cable for audio and video and had nothing but problems. What is the correct configuration if you have an HDTV that supports 480/720/1080P/I 60" Sony XBR2 over HDMI?

For some reason I cannot get any conbinations of settings to work right. I like my SD channels to be stretched and my HD content to look normal however it seems to be zooming on my HD content for some reason.

For some reason I cannot get any conbinations of settings to work right. I like my SD channels to be stretched and my HD content to look normal however it seems to be zooming on my HD content for some reason.

I'm having the same issue. I've been poking around in this thread and have been unable to find a workaround.

Anyone got a suggestion, or is this just another quirk with the 8300HD???

--greg

EDIT: this assumes you have verified that you are on a PASSPORT system and not a SARA or NAVIGATOR system. A post with some screenshots of the three. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10998511&&#post10998511)

You might want to check that both 480i and 720p/1080i are enabled and working if you want the TV to auto-stretch 480i. Then check the TV settings to be sure that it is set right. Spouses/kids/pets/alcohol/dark-fumblings sometimes change random settings, and HDMI is fairly wonky at times...

If you are using fixed 720p/1080i because the HDMI locks in a single format, or you just like it that way, someone else will have to help. I cannot remember much on having the STB doing the stretching, I did not use it much, and I am on SARA now.

But, you might try searching for aspect in the thread (top right corner of the post area). There was a little trick (at least with the earlier versions) relating to the use of a button on the remote (# or aspect or zoom or something) that changed the behavior of the aspect controls in the Settings->More Settings menu.

IIRC, hitting the remote button changed a [second layer of] aspect modes that were applied after the modes selected using the Settings menu. Consequently, using the button to set any mode except "Normal" modified the expected outcome from the Settings menu selections. (But you could get some interesting combinations...)

If aspect does not get it, try Brighthouse, I think that was the location of the question or answer -- as I have forgotten who figured that button trick out, seems their name began with a B.

v/r,
C-F

EDIT: this assumes you have verified that you are on a PASSPORT system and not a SARA or NAVIGATOR system. A post with some screenshots of the three. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10998511&&#post10998511)

You might want to check that both 480i and 720p/1080i are enabled and working if you want the TV to auto-stretch 480i. Then check the TV settings to be sure that it is set right. Spouses/kids/pets/alcohol/dark-fumblings sometimes change random settings, and HDMI is fairly wonky at times...

If you are using fixed 720p/1080i because the HDMI locks in a single format, or you just like it that way, someone else will have to help. I cannot remember much on having the STB doing the stretching, I did not use it much, and I am on SARA now.

But, you might try searching for aspect in the thread (top right corner of the post area). There was a little trick (at least with the earlier versions) relating to the use of a button on the remote (# or aspect or zoom or something) that changed the behavior of the aspect controls in the Settings->More Settings menu.

IIRC, hitting the remote button changed a [second layer of] aspect modes that were applied after the modes selected using the Settings menu. Consequently, using the button to set any mode except "Normal" modified the expected outcome from the Settings menu selections. (But you could get some interesting combinations...)

If aspect does not get it, try Brighthouse, I think that was the location of the question or answer -- as I have forgotten who figured that button trick out, seems their name began with a B.

v/r,
C-F

Thanks Cannon-Fodder. I am definitely on Passport. I searched around and found that the Video Source or # buttons on the remote will change the aspect. Since I am at work right now I cannot test to see if this any different that changing it via Settings/More Settings/Aspect Ratio. If this "second layer" is the case that might help, or might confuse it even more! :)

I currently have the 8300HD set to output 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Also my display (Panny 50px700u) has "Full", "Just" and "Zoom" setttings that will stay set to the last choice based on the resolution of the channel - 1080i will stay as Full and 480p/i will stay at whatever you last had it set to ... so this complicates it even more.

I will have to play around some more, and possibly add 480i output to see if that has any affect. I was really happy with my SD picture using Stretch on the 8300 and Full on the Panny, until I noticed that 1080i channels were being zoomed.

First I've got to plug in the 500GB external HD I just bought and see if that works!

And of course this will all be moot once the dreaded Navigator arrives. :(


--greg

Okay, I'm having no luck digging through this colossus of a thread, so I'm hoping someone can tell me definitively.

Does the Passport software support eSATA? Looks like I'm on version 2.6.002.

Thanks!

Okay, I'm having no luck digging through this colossus of a thread, so I'm hoping someone can tell me definitively.

Does the Passport software support eSATA? Looks like I'm on version 2.6.002.

Thanks!

Support? No. Howerver... it does kinda work... with some limitations like no trickplay functions (FF/REW/Paus) of live (not recording) content.

Support? No. Howerver... it does kinda work... with some limitations like no trickplay functions (FF/REW/Paus) of live (not recording) content.


Argh. That's no good. What about Navigator?

8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=1&pp=30)

v/r,
C-F

I recently acquired a 8300HD Passport from TWC San Diego. I'm coming from a Tivo so this thing is really pissing me off.

I just discovered a problem. The box is recording two copies of the same show at the same time... one on a regular TV channel and the other on an HD channel. This hit me last week for the British Grand Prix so the box missed the Champ Car race since both tuners were occupied. I have the channels skipped but the box still records them.

Please tell me there is a way to fix this without restricting the recording to a single channel. That doesn't work for shows like this (F1, Champ Car, ALMS, IRL) since they're on different channels for different races.

While I'm at it.... It seems that if there is a conflict on a show and it's not recorded, the 8300HD won't record the next showing unless it's set to record repeats and first run. Am I missing something?

I'm starting to think that $800 for a Tivo HD box is worth the money. Grrrr!

Thanks!

You're right on both counts.

The core of both your issues is that the Passport software doesn't have anything like the "28 Day Rule" that TiVo has. The TiVo knows what episodes it has and hasn't recorded, and thus by default won't record duplicates (like your first problem) of the same episode, and will record an episode at a later showing if a conflict preempts an earlier one.

The workaround for your first problem is to create channel-specific series recordings for every channel you want to record. It's clunky, and is inflexible if a particular show moves to a different channel unexpectedly, but there isn't any workable alternative.

Unfortunately, you are exactly right on your second issue, there is no workaround short of changing your series recordings to record repeats, or constantly monitoring your future recordings list.

I used a TiVo for 5 years, and went over to the SA8300HD only out of necessity. The Passport software is, quite simply, just not as smart as TiVo.

After about a week of going back and forth with Time Warner on whether or not this would work (they said it wouldn't but I got the feeling the person I was talking to had no idea what I was talking about) - I decided to just go get the goods and see what happened.

Long story short I added 500gb of storage space to my 8300HD DVR. It's an internal Seagate SATA hard drive put into an enclosure that came with a SATA cable and port. I put the drive in the enclosure, plugged it in, connected to my HD DVR with the SATA cable and just flipped the switch. I was prompted by the 8300 to format the drive, which I did, then after that I confirmed the increase in storage space by going into the diagnostic menu.

TW Cincinnati runs Passport on the boxes. I got into the diagnostic menu by pressing 'Select' and 'Exit' simultaneously on the box, then pressed 'Exit' again when the box said 'Diag' on the front.

Hope this helps somebody! Time Warner sure won't!

Hope this helps somebody! Time Warner sure won't!That's because most US cable companies do not support the external drive. As a result there is nothing on the "script" that the CSRs use about it. So if it isn't there, then it must not work. :rolleyes:

After about a week of going back and forth with Time Warner on whether or not this would work (they said it wouldn't but I got the feeling the person I was talking to had no idea what I was talking about) - I decided to just go get the goods and see what happened.

Long story short I added 500gb of storage space to my 8300HD DVR. It's an internal Seagate SATA hard drive put into an enclosure that came with a SATA cable and port. I put the drive in the enclosure, plugged it in, connected to my HD DVR with the SATA cable and just flipped the switch. I was prompted by the 8300 to format the drive, which I did, then after that I confirmed the increase in storage space by going into the diagnostic menu.

TW Cincinnati runs Passport on the boxes. I got into the diagnostic menu by pressing 'Select' and 'Exit' simultaneously on the box, then pressed 'Exit' again when the box said 'Diag' on the front.

Hope this helps somebody! Time Warner sure won't!Thanks for te post, but participants of this thread have been using external drives with Passport for many months now. The one caveat is that trick-play functions (REW, FF, PAUSE, etc) stop working for live television while the drive is attached--they work fine for playback of recordings.

If live trick-play is working for you, that would be good news. Is it?

BTW, I don't think that anyone can fault the cable companies for not supporting this in Passport, since it's never been announced as a feature of the IPG. It's in Scientific Atlanta's specs for the box and explained in the SARA dcoumentation, but that's for boxes running SARA, not Passport.

I can pause live TV, but none of the other trick-play functions work...

I can pause live TV, but none of the other trick-play functions work...You can freeze the screen, but can you actually resume from the point you left off? :)

You can freeze the screen, but can you actually resume from the point you left off? :)

I can with my 8300HD and an eSATA drive. I cannot, however fast forward to catch up on commercials. My only option is to change channels, and then change back which makes me lose everything in between.

-Ted

Same with me Ted, I can pause then resume where I left off, but to catch up with live TV I have to change channels back and forth...

This advice has been posted many times on the other thread cannon-fodder referenced, but the solution to the Passport "trick play" issue on an external drive is simply to hit the "record" button and start a recording of a live show you're watching when you think you might want "trick play" functions. That's it. Simple. Easy.

But, but, but....that would be EVERYTHING.....gotta go....nature calling....

We seem to have the first indications from a former 8300/Passport user who got Navigator that it does end the trick play bug. We know that in general, Passport folks will get it before SARA folks. So while the negatives continue to pile up around Navigator, it looks like there may just be one small positive!

This advice has been posted many times on the other thread cannon-fodder referenced, but the solution to the Passport "trick play" issue on an external drive is simply to hit the "record" button and start a recording of a live show you're watching when you think you might want "trick play" functions. That's it. Simple. Easy.

Not quite. I've tried to do this and failed 3 times (slightly different application, I get a call, pause and in 1/2 hour realize the conversation is going to go beyond the one hour buffer, so I hit record). The "recorded" shows only go until the point where you had originally hit pause. I suspect it may work if one hits record AND play.

Hi,

I don't think the advice to just record what you think you might want trick play functions on is any good at all, since like someone else said, that would be everything, so you would end up recording new shows everytime you changed channels.
I get a phone call and need to use trick play to pause and resume on shows I didn't anticipate needing it and hadn't hit record yet, and friends and family who don't understand want to see trick functions but can't be bothered with explanations.

So when I heard you talk about those of us with passport getting something called Navigator, and it enabling the trick play again, I got excited!

I haven't been on the forums in a while and just got the e-mail that this thread was updated, so i guess I better google and search the thread for more info.
When are we set to get this, is it a software update?
:)
:)
Thanks,
AnthonyNYC

Sorry for the re-post, initially I posted this question in the base "HDTV Recorders" area, which I think was the wrong place.

==

For some reason my 4065F won't recognize the output from the 8300HD via HDMI.
And yes I am only outputting 720p and 1080i

I have Time Warner Cable from the Milwaukee area, it uses the Passport software.

I don't know if I have the newer or older software, but there are some oddities. If I have the box in 'off mode', and press INFO + GUIDE together, nothing happens, whereas the guide stays it will go into 'setup mode'.
Conversely I can just go into Settings->'More Settings' and just select which output formats I want (720p and 1080i).

There is a well known limitation of the 4065F that it won't support 480i, however I would think side I've set the 8300 to 720p and 1080i, this would not be a problem.

I've tried two different sets of HDMI cables, no joy.

I've made sure to have the TV on, the 8300 off, the start up the 8300, it goes right to channel 512 in 720p, but still on the TV I can't select the HDMI as an input source.

Any ideas?

p.s. Component cables are working fine
p.p.s I unplug the component cables when I test the HDMI ones.

Hi,

I don't think the advice to just record what you think you might want trick play functions on is any good at all, since like someone else said, that would be everything, so you would end up recording new shows everytime you changed channels.
I get a phone call and need to use trick play to pause and resume on shows I didn't anticipate needing it and hadn't hit record yet, and friends and family who don't understand want to see trick functions but can't be bothered with explanations.

So when I heard you talk about those of us with passport getting something called Navigator, and it enabling the trick play again, I got excited!

I haven't been on the forums in a while and just got the e-mail that this thread was updated, so i guess I better google and search the thread for more info.
When are we set to get this, is it a software update?
:)
:)
Thanks,
AnthonyNYCTime Warner's Digital Navigator is a new interactive program guide (IPG) written in house. Passport Echo, the IPG under discussion in this thread, is produced by a company called Aptiv Digital (formerly Pioneer Broadband). Passport doesn't properly support the SATA expansion drive feature of the hardware--nor does it claim to, so it's hard to complain about it :). Everyone here who's using it is using an undocumented feature of the firmware.

TWC has been rolling out Navigator in a limited number of markets. They have an OCAP version of it which can run on Digital Cable Ready II devices. OCAP is the "OpenCable Applications Platform", a Java-based execution environment into which cable providers can download applications onto off-the-shelf Multi-Stream CableCARD slot-equiped televisions and set-top boxes. Samsung worked with TWC on Navigator, and they've shown it running on prototype Samsung televisions at product shows. The test markets have it running on leased cable STBs--one day, people woke up and it was there.

Digital Navigator has been quite bug-ridden; so many complaints about it were lodged in one community that the city council threatened to pull TWC's contract (I think--I didn't follow the issue closely). Eventually they should get the problems ironed out though. Nice to hear that it supports the expansion drive.

Not quite. I've tried to do this and failed 3 times (slightly different application, I get a call, pause and in 1/2 hour realize the conversation is going to go beyond the one hour buffer, so I hit record). The "recorded" shows only go until the point where you had originally hit pause. I suspect it may work if one hits record AND play.

Yeah, that's true. Since anything being watched would be recorded on the external drive, and there's no buffer for the external drive, it can't use the buffer to go back to the beginning of the program if you hit "record" at some point into the program. You pretty much have to hit "record" right as the program starts in order to avail yourself of trick-play functions during the entire program.

I've been playing with the trick described in a previous post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10370361&&#post10370361) in this thread to use black sidebars from my TV instead of the gray ones that are added by the 8300HD with Passport when viewing SD channels. (I already know I can't change the color of the ones on HD channels showing 4:3 content.) I'm not actually sure how it's working. I think it involves switching between channel types, aspect ratios in the settings, and zoom/stretch/aspect settings on the TV and cable box until it magically sets itself. In any case, it seems to be working.

My question is about trying to understand the math behind the ratios in the 8300HD's two options for SD content: you can tell it you have a 4:3 TV or a 16:9 TV. With the 16:9 TV option, it automatically adds gray sidebars. The 4:3 TV option (with a little messing around, as I mentioned above) does not add any sidebars. If I have my TV display 1:1, I can see what is coming out of the box. However, when I change the TV to aspect mode to scale in equal directions until there are no horizontal bars on the top and bottom, the 4:3 TV option gives me a wider final image. In other words, the black sidebars are narrower than the gray sidebars would be if I told the 8300HD I have a 16:9 TV. My Olevia LCD 32" TV is 1366x768. I'm wondering if the 8300HD is doing some pre-shrinking/stretching of the 480i to fit in a 16:9 ratio? It doesn't seem like the top of the image is being cropped in the 4:3 case to allow the image to be wider. Maybe something to do with overscan?

I'm starting to lose my train of thought (and I always lose my mind when trying to squeeze power-user tricks out of junk consumer electronics) so I'm hoping someone else has seen the same thing and understands what I'm talking about. :o

I had an older "trick" that didn't work near as reliably, but I understood the mechanism. For this trick, I really just don't know how it works... just that it consistently seems to work.

Certain settings need to have either a HD or SD channel tuned in to make a "default" for that setting. This one does NOT seem to be tuned into either HD or SD. Which makes me think from the 8300 perspective, it works by primary/secondary. I HAVE a 16:9 HD display, but I set the primary for 4:3. YET, if it's a 16:9 HD signal, it delivers it that way to the display. The TV is different, if I tune a 16:9 HD channel and set 4:3, it will henceforth squeeze all HD content into a 4:3 box, horizontally squeezing everything.

That being said, while also have a 1366 display, it's a different manufacturer. It certainly is possible I can do things you might not be able to, even if we lived in adjoining apartments (i.e. same STB, same cable company, same head end). And vis versa. I have NO 1:1 pixel mapping, I don't care a bot about that, but some are VERY upset Samsung doesn't do it (these guys are mostly gamers).

I just have not seen any of the issues you mention.

Still, this is essentially fleeting stuff. TWC has said that it's passport folks who will get the news software first, so we are all in for a switch to Navigator. It would be a whole new ballgame then.

Thanks for the reply. It's not really an issue or a problem, I was just curious why the image was wider when setting 4:3 TV mode in the 8300HD. So you're saying that the 4:3 image is exactly the same width whether you have the black sidebars from your TV or the gray sidebars from the 8300HD? It may have been a while since you've seen those gray sidebars!

Anyway, I was just curious. We'll see what the new Navigator software can give us.

To answer my own question, I think this goes back to my basic misunderstanding of the horizontal length, resolution, and number of pixels for standard def TV. When selecting 4:3 TV mode, the 8300HD outputs 480p at about a 3:2 ratio (*ahem* using my tape measure) which would be about 720 pixels across. My TV in Aspect mode will take whatever it receives 1:1 and scale it until it fills the screen (without stretching). That's why it looks wider. When I put the 8300HD in 16:9 TV mode, the 8300HD outputs something at about a 4:3 ratio. Unfortunately, that's with the ugly gray sidebars.

On a related note, I can't select 480i in the More Settings screen and I am absolutely not able to get back into the Setup Wizard by turning the DVR off and pressing Info+Guide. What the hell?!

Who screwed up visual media and consumer electronics so badly? :rolleyes: :)

On a related note, I can't select 480i in the More Settings screen and I am absolutely not able to get back into the Setup Wizard by turning the DVR off and pressing Info+Guide. What the hell?!Lemme guess: You're connected via HDMI, right?

. . . I am absolutely not able to get back into the Setup Wizard by turning the DVR off and pressing Info+Guide. What the hell?!
Not sure where you saw that key press combo, but it is for 8300HDs running SARA software and you're posting on a thread for Passport software. Do you, in fact, have Passport?

As jruhnke's so delicately alluded to, 480i is not available over HDMI.

Thanks for the reply. It's not really an issue or a problem, I was just curious why the image was wider when setting 4:3 TV mode in the 8300HD. So you're saying that the 4:3 image is exactly the same width whether you have the black sidebars from your TV or the gray sidebars from the 8300HD? It may have been a while since you've seen those gray sidebars!

Anyway, I was just curious. We'll see what the new Navigator software can give us.

Yes haven't seen gray sidebars in quite a while (actually, a year ago CBS HD used gray sidebars for 4:3 content, there was NO WAY to change it because it came that way from their studios; I haven't seen them do that in 6+ months)!

Yes, a SD channel's 4:3 image seems to be the same width whether gray or black side pillars. I can very easily spot a distorted image, so I won't allow that to happen.

Yes Navigator is going to change a lot of things. The "trick" is for Passport users, I believe SARA has a specific preference to draw all sidebars in gray or black. I have no idea how navigator is going to deal with this, we'll see when it gets loaded onto my 8300.

As jruhnke's so delicately alluded to, 480i is not available over HDMI.

That's actually kinda interesting. For me (8300/Samsung) I noticed from day one that I could only "enable" 480p on my 8300. But, merely one block away (8300/Sony) I "could" set 480i and 480p on the Sony HD set. HDMI on both setups.

The point being that far more than we typically acknowledge may be attributed to specific TV/STB combinations. In addition to the many software versions from 3 separate platforms (SARA, Passport, Navigator).

Not sure where you saw that key press combo, but it is for 8300HDs running SARA software and you're posting on a thread for Passport software. Do you, in fact, have Passport?That's interesting. I saw it in various manuals on Scientific Atlanta's website. Maybe they assume you are running SARA software. (SARA sounds a lot like SA.. the default software perhaps? :o)

As jruhnke's so delicately alluded to, 480i is not available over HDMI.Thanks. I had heard about this, but thought the 480i option was something I had disabled internally in the initial setup wizard and could not enable it until I redid that. It sounds like I don't need to go to the setup wizard at all and all the functionality is available in "More Settings" on Passport.

My comments about visual media and consumer electronics still stand. Just add my name to the list too. ;)

Yes, a SD channel's 4:3 image seems to be the same width whether gray or black side pillars. I can very easily spot a distorted image, so I won't allow that to happen.Could the 480p mode from the 8300HD be putting out something that is not 4:3 even with a 4:3 TV aspect selected? I should hook up some component cables to experiment with 480i. Otherwise, either the TV does not have a true 1:1 pixel mode, or the box expects you to take the extra pixels per scanline and use them to shrink the image down to the correct proportions...? *shrug*

The point being that far more than we typically acknowledge may be attributed to specific TV/STB combinations. In addition to the many software versions from 3 separate platforms (SARA, Passport, Navigator).
A valid point, but I prefer to blame HDMI for everything. ;)

That's interesting. I saw it in various manuals on Scientific Atlanta's website. Maybe they assume you are running SARA software. (SARA sounds a lot like SA.. the default software perhaps? :o)
BINGO! :) Scientific Atlanta Resident Application

Could the 480p mode from the 8300HD be putting out something that is not 4:3? I should hook up some component cables to experiment. Otherwise, either the TV does not have a true 1:1 pixel mode, or the box expects you to take the extra pixels per scanline and use them to shrink the image down to the correct proportions...? *shrug*
Something other than 4:3? I'd say that that's dependent upon the original source. If 1080i and 720p are "on" then the only thing outputted at 480p is 480i source, and that is all 4:3. What is your display and it's native resolution?

Any idea when TWC is rolling out Navigator in the Torrance, CA area?? I just tried swapping my SA8300 for the new MOTO 6416 box and she said that the new box isn't compatible with the old passport software in my area?? Is she BSing me or is this the case?? Thanks guys...

Something other than 4:3? I'd say that that's dependent upon the original source. If 1080i and 720p are "on" then the only thing outputted at 480p is 480i source, and that is all 4:3. What is your display and it's native resolution?Olevia 332H 1366x768 or whatever. On regular cable channels (480i source) the 8300HD says it is outputting 480p, but the width:height is clearly not 4:3 when I put the TV in 1:1 mode. I'll have to do more experimenting when I get home. Just going on memory right now.

RE: 480i on HDMI: It's really a function of the TV. Part of the handshake between the TV (sink) and the 8300 (source) is a communication regarding the resolutions that the TV can accept. Many TVs (some Sony's for one) accept 480i on HDMI, others (some Pannys) do not.

Hey guys, do the new Moto DCH 6416 boxes work with my Passport software, or do they only work with the TV Guide and Navigator software? I went to the office and the lady said the new MOTO's aren't compatible with Passport. I find that hard to believe...and does anyone know when the new Navigator is coming to the south bay?? Thanks!!

Also, is the 8300HD the newest box for my area??

Hey guys, do the new Moto DCH 6416 boxes work with my Passport software, or do they only work with the TV Guide and Navigator software? I went to the office and the lady said the new MOTO's are compatible with Passport. I find that hard to believe...
It's a moot point as subscribers have no choice in what software is loaded onto their boxes. And no way to change the software that is on their boxes.

There was a version of Passport for the older Moto DCT boxes (they called it Passport DCT instead of Passport Echo). It may not have been ported to the new DCH boxes--Motorola has some new IPG of their own that they seem to be promoting with multi-room viewing and the ability to stream or download music and photos from PCs, cell-phones and cameras.

Any idea when TWC is rolling out Navigator in the Torrance, CA area?? I just tried swapping my SA8300 for the new MOTO 6416 box and she said that the new box isn't compatible with the old passport software in my area?? Is she BSing me or is this the case?? Thanks guys...

Why would anyone here on the general thread know anything about your specific area's rollout or hardware? You need to monitor your local thread in the local HDTV Forum.

Hey guys, do the new Moto DCH 6416 boxes work with my Passport software, or do they only work with the TV Guide and Navigator software? I went to the office and the lady said the new MOTO's aren't compatible with Passport. I find that hard to believe...and does anyone know when the new Navigator is coming to the south bay?? Thanks!!

Also, is the 8300HD the newest box for my area??A few points:

1) Why are you asking about Moto boxes in a SA8300 thread? There are Moto threads on the AVS that would be more appropriate.

2) Generally a cable system uses only one brand of boxes. This is because the box must work in their system. Note that Comcast (or TW, or whatever) in one city may use Motorola boxes and SA boxes in another. This may change in a while - but it is usually the case today.

3) Likewise, as pepar points out, customers don't have a choice of software. That may also change on Comcast systems as they plan to offer TiVo services at a premium.

4) Cable companies generally don't offer their customers a choice of brands/models of equipment within a category. For example: A HD DVR may be a SA8000HD, SA8300HD, or SA8300HDC* - you don't get to pick which (let alone between a SA and a Moto).

*As of July 1 the FCC has effectively required that any newly deployed cable boxes use CableCards (the SA8300HDC in this example). The cable company still may provide new customers with previously used boxes, so when you order HD DVR service they may end up providing any of these boxes. However, the odds are that you would get the CableCard version.

Sorry guys, I should have cleared a few things up...

I'm a current TWC customer, have been for the past 4 years.

I currently have the SA8300HD on my Sony SXRD

I was just wondering if the 8300HD is currently the newest box, in the past, I've just been able to go down to the office and swap out my box for the newest one.

I know we can't choose our software, I currently have Passport, hence my post in this thread, and I received a card in the mail months ago that the new Navigator software was coming soon and haven't heard anything since...

Just wanted to see if there were any new boxes out there that are faster and primarily have HDMI that works, I'm out of Components on my TV.

I read in another thread that there was a new MOTO 6416 and just was wondering if that works with passport...

Hope this clears this up a little.

Sorry guys, I should have cleared a few things up...

I'm a current TWC customer, have been for the past 4 years.

I currently have the SA8300HD on my Sony SXRD

I was just wondering if the 8300HD is currently the newest box, in the past, I've just been able to go down to the office and swap out my box for the newest one.

I know we can't choose our software, I currently have Passport, hence my post in this thread, and I received a card in the mail months ago that the new Navigator software was coming soon and haven't heard anything since...

Just wanted to see if there were any new boxes out there that are faster and primarily have HDMI that works, I'm out of Components on my TV.

I read in another thread that there was a new MOTO 6416 and just was wondering if that works with passport...

Hope this clears this up a little.
Allow me to make one point clear: YOU DO NOT WANT THE MOTO BOX!
Two of our adult children have them - and they are a much poorer box than the often maligned SA8300HD! One is in Atlanta (in fact, I am there now) and the other is in Maryland (DC area). Son-in-law in Maryland used to live in an adjacent county where he had a SA8300. No way does he like the Moto better!

Count your lucky stars! ;)

I read in another thread that there was a new MOTO 6416 and just was wondering if that works with passport...

Hope this clears this up a little.It does EXCEPT that you still don't seem to totally understand that you don't have a choice. Even if the Moto box was the latest and greatest thing on the planet, you will not be able to get a Moto box if your cableco uses SA hardware, unless of course you are willing to move. As The Other Dave said, this may change at some point, but you just don't have a choice today.

Here's the thing...and the whole reason I asked in the first place..as I said...I've got the 8300 in Torrance and literally 3 miles away in Redondo Beach, TWC is using Moto boxes in the former Adelphia area...so I just happened to browse the forum and find out that a new Moto box was just released and wanted to know if I can use that....

Here's the thing...and the whole reason I asked in the first place..as I said...I've got the 8300 in Torrance and literally 3 miles away in Redondo Beach, TWC is using Moto boxes in the former Adelphia area...so I just happened to browse the forum and find out that a new Moto box was just released and wanted to know if I can use that....Yes, but that was a different system (was an Adelphia system). Once TW takes over, the system infrastructure stays in place - they really can't change it over.

Yes, but that was a different system (was an Adelphia system). Once TW takes over, the system infrastructure stays in place - they really can't change it over.At least until OCAP is fully implemented.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that the OP doesn't have a choice of either software or hardware. If SA hardware is what the cableco's uses, the fact that Moto hardware is used 3 miles down the road means absolutely nothing, whether or not it works with Passport. The OP keyed in on the software part of your response, but seems to have missed the part about hardware (item 2 in previous post). I'm not trying to be a hard*ss here, but I believe it's now been answered at least 3 times. Maybe I am becoming a curmudgeon in my old age. :)

TWC in Torrance = SA
TWC in Redondo Beach = Moto
Software may be the same (Passport), but hardware is not interchangeable.

I am becoming a curmudgeon in my old age. :)


Welcome to the club, we're always happy to have more folks join us!

Did you get the secret decoder ring?

Welcome to the club, we're always happy to have more folks join us!

Did you get the secret decoder ring?Not yet, but I know the one-finger salute. :)

Any of you renting 2 boxes from TWC? If so how much are they charging you? A rep just told me it would be an additional $20 a month. Seems a bit steep.

Any of you renting 2 boxes from TWC? If so how much are they charging you? A rep just told me it would be an additional $20 a month. Seems a bit steep.An additional $10/month for DVR is pretty normal for rent of a single box. So $20/month for two is right in line with that.

Actually, he said the rep quoted him an *additional* $20, which seems a little high, though not too much.

For comparison, in the Houston market (which recently transitioned from TWC to Comcast) I pay $7.00 for the 8300HD box, plus $6.95 for the "DVR service", so $13.95 total.

(Edit: I updated the prices to accurately reflect my most recent bill.)

Actually, he said the rep quoted him an *additional* $20, which seems a little high, though not too much.
I saw that distinction as well. My past experience and a few other posters here is that for some reason, some cable companies try to discourage subscribers from getting more than one DVR. That might be what was going on with the OP. His cableco *should* have all of their rates published; a quick check there would (probably) put the lie to the rep's statement quickly.

Yes, you get charged for an additional box rental plus additional DVR service.
I've got three of them. Don't ask what my monthly bill is, including internet and a foreign language channel subscription.

Why does my Samsung lnt 4665f sometimes read from the cable box :

Your HDTV does not support HDCP ....use component ...something something..

At this point I can't change channels.
Then I have to turn off tv and cable box, turn on Cable first then tv then its okay.

Can someone educate me on this? I assume it is a problem with the cable box and not the TV right?

I have Passport 8300HD. (DVR)
Cable box HDMI to TV .
Cable set at output from the setting menu to 1080i only.
Thanks

For comparison, in the Houston market (which recently transitioned from TWC to Comcast) I pay $7.00 for the 8300HD box, plus $6.95 for the "DVR service", so $13.95 total.Consider yourself lucky because here it would cost you another $9/mo. Of course, one needs to compare every cost because they all charge differently for everything. :)

Why does my Samsung lnt 4665f sometimes read from the cable box :

Your HDTV does not support HDCP ....use component ...something something..

At this point I can't change channels.
Then I have to turn off tv and cable box, turn on Cable first then tv then its okay.

Can someone educate me on this? I assume it is a problem with the cable box and not the TV right?

I have Passport 8300HD. (DVR)
Cable box HDMI to TV .
Cable set at output from the setting menu to 1080i only.
Thanks
It sounds like the 8300HD is losing its HDMI handshake with the display. Check your connections. HDMI cable are usually very stiff and can easily become slightly mis-aligned, especially if you move the 8300HD around after making the connection. If that doesn't fix it, try another HDMI cable.

Interesting - my SA8300HD not longer displays 6 days of programming in the scedule, only two. Does anybody know anything about this? I am in the Raleigh Durham TWC area.

Interesting - my SA8300HD not longer displays 6 days of programming in the scedule, only two. Does anybody know anything about this? I am in the Raleigh Durham TWC area.Did you try rebooting? Unplug the box for a couple of minutes then plug it back in and turn it on and see if this solves your problem.

Interesting - my SA8300HD not longer displays 6 days of programming in the scedule, only two. Does anybody know anything about this? I am in the Raleigh Durham TWC area.
I've noticed similar behavior on a few occasions - usually approaching the end of the month.

Strange thing occurred to me today and I was wondering if anybody could help. Entourage and Flight of the Concords were being recorded on my SA8300 (cablevision) on HBO HD tonight using the season pass method. I saw the red light on my SA8300 during that time so I know it was recording something. Instead of watching those shows I instead watched another show that I had recorded. I went to my recorded list at the conclusion of the show to watch Entourage and I noticed that both shows that I was recorded tonight were missing. They are just not there. I do not see them at all. Anybody know if there is a way to recover them? I mean I saw the red light on for pete's sake during the time when they should have been recorded. Other info that may prove useful or not:

-Both shows are recorded on a first run only basis (but they were be recorded because the red light was on and nothing showed up tonight as being recorded)
-There are no other prior episodes of those shows currently on my DVR (I watch and erase)
-My DVR is at 55% full capacity and shows that 17 programs are on my DVR list. My list shows exactly 17 shows and excludes the 2 shows that should have been recorded tonight. 13 of those shows were recorded in HD and were 1 hr each. 4 of those shows were recorded in SD and were 1 hr each. I wonder if the 55% is a false reading?
-I did hit my full capacity earlier today at which point I erased several shows and brought it back to 55%.
-Not sure if this is important or not but I noticed on my scheduled recordings that all my old season passes for a bunch of shows (heroes, CSI, two and a half men, etc) are all scheduled for Wednesday 8/1 at 9pm when those shows will not be on at all.

Help?!?!?!? I am trying to record something right now and it seems to be working. I will check when the show is over. I will also reboot the system. Anyway, is there a way to recover those shows or is it a lost case? I will try to record them tomorrow night (replay) but I'd like to solve this issue. Friggin DVR is so glitchy. Makes me lean towards getting that $300 TiVoHD but I feel like that company has to go out of business at some point...

Quick little update. So the show that I did record appears in my recorded list and works fine. I also realized that there was a 3rd show that did not record John from Cincinatti. Essentially 2 hours of HD programming from the same channel that ran consecutively is missing despite seeing the light on for that time. Also, i guess my last note about my scheduled recordings appears to just reflect that the DVR looks for all my season passes as far ahead as the box allows because now it has changed from Wednesday to Sunday. This is my 3rd SA8300 and boy do I wish that Cablevision would have some refreshed hardware that worked....

Not sure where you saw that key press combo, but it is for 8300HDs running SARA software and you're posting on a thread for Passport software. Do you, in fact, have Passport?

As jruhnke's so delicately alluded to, 480i is not available over HDMI.

So what IS the proper sequence for getting into the setup wizard with Passport software?

I read in another thread somewhere that it appears that the "wizard" doesn't exist on the Passport-versioned boxes. That really appears to be true. I was NOT able to get it to run either, but there's nothing in it that you can't do in the regular "Settings", then "A, More Settings".

This cannot be true. When I first got my Passport 8300HD the cable guy was not able to get my HDMI connection working and hooked it up component instead. He gave me some BS story about my new TV being defective... blah blah. :-) After he left I downloaded the manual from the web and was able to run the Setup Wizard where I could tell the box to output video and audio via the HDMI connection. Viola... my HDMI worked perfectly.

That was 6-months ago. I just got a Blu-ray player and need to use the HDMI for that. So I wanted to re-run the Setup Wizard. For the LIFE of me I can no longer get into the wizard. What's going on? I'm pressing the two buttons on the box but it then just turns on normally?

I do have Passport and the wizard did work. What's changed?

So what IS the proper sequence for getting into the setup wizard with Passport software?
You know, I've *heard of* the Setup Wizard, but I don't think I've ever been there. :) Perhaps it only pops up when a box is first used and mine have been "pre-used." Anyway, what I think you're looking for is accessed from the remote - at least the one I have - by pressing "Settings." Once there, pressing "A" accesses "More Settings" where you will find timers, parental controls, output formats and resolutions, etc.

You know, I've *heard of* the Setup Wizard, but I don't think I've ever been there. :) Perhaps it only pops up when a box is first used and mine have been "pre-used." Anyway, what I think you're looking for is accessed from the remote - at least the one I have - by pressing "Settings." Once there, pressing "A" accesses "More Settings" where you will find timers, parental controls, output formats and resolutions, etc.

Yes, I've been through those settings MANY times. The wizard allowed for even more settings. It was the only place that had a menu choice to enable or disable audio over HDMI.

I think it's driving me crazy because it worked before but now the button combination no longer works.

Anything you need to know about set-up wizard: http://www.sciatl.com/products/consumers/userguidepdfs/4003114B.pdf
Make sure the 8300 is OFF and TV is ON.


So what IS the proper sequence for getting into the setup wizard with Passport software?

Yes, I've been through those settings MANY times. The wizard allowed for even more settings. It was the only place that had a menu choice to enable or disable audio over HDMI.

I think it's driving me crazy because it worked before but now the button combination no longer works.
Perhaps I made too much of a joke about it before. I have two 8300HDs and one 8300 that I got about 30 months ago. I was one of the first on my system - Suscom York at the time and now Comcast - to have them. I've never seen a setup wizard. On two boxes I use component, but on the third one - in my "serious" system - I am using HDMI. I convert it to DVI with an adapter cable, but it's still the HDMI output of the 8300HD.

I guess I'm tip-toeing around :) to asking you if you're sure it was on a Passport box where you used a Setup Wizard. It *is* a SARA feature explained here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052&&#post4682052) .

Anything you need to know about set-up wizard: http://www.sciatl.com/products/consumers/userguidepdfs/4003114B.pdf
Make sure the 8300 is OFF and TV is ON.
Any documents regarding the 8300HD that are from Scientific Atlanta will be for Scientific Atlanta Resident Application software. Passport is not an SA product.

You know, I've *heard of* the Setup Wizard, but I don't think I've ever been there. :) Perhaps it only pops up when a box is first used and mine have been "pre-used."That's what I'm thinking now. I swear I pressed the Info+Guide buttons when I first got the box to set everything up. But now that I think about it, the BrightHouse tech had already connected it and I was able to watch TV. (He plugged one of the component cables into an audio jack, so the screen was all green, hehe.) Who knows!

T . . . the BrightHouse tech had already connected it and I was able to watch TV. (He plugged one of the component cables into an audio jack, so the screen was all green, hehe.) Who knows!
Scary, isn't it? :)

That's what I'm thinking now. I swear I pressed the Info+Guide buttons when I first got the box to set everything up. But now that I think about it, the BrightHouse tech had already connected it and I was able to watch TV. (He plugged one of the component cables into an audio jack, so the screen was all green, hehe.) Who knows!


I will verify when I get home but I'm pretty sure it is Passport.

When the cable guy first installed the 8300HD the HDMI would not work properly. We managed to get video but could not get sound. Component worked fine. I made the suggestion that perhaps there was a "setup menu" as these days everything seems to have a setup menu. :-) The cable guy gave me a disgruntled "how dare you tell me how to install this look" and went on to claim my new Sony HDTV was defective. :-) So I told him to just go ahead and install it using the component cables. HDTV was at the time a new offering in our area and as he was leaving I said "So, is it safe to assume that all the 8300HD's you've installed in the area are connected via the component cables?" to which he replied "Yep". :-)

10-mins after he left I downloaded the setup guide from Scientific Atlantic, pressed the GUIDE + INFO buttons and was into the Setup Wizard. There I quickly located the HDMI audio option which of course was set to "disabled". I enabled audio via HDMI and my TV came to life with video + audio and that's how I've been using it the past 6 months.

Now that I've had to switch back to the component cables I wanted to verify all my settings but for the life of me I can no longer access the Setup Wizard. Very frustrating.

I will verify when I get home but I'm pretty sure it is Passport.

When the cable guy first installed the 8300HD the HDMI would not work properly. We managed to get video but could not get sound. Component worked fine. I made the suggestion that perhaps there was a "setup menu" as these days everything seems to have a setup menu. :-) The cable guy gave me a disgruntled "how dare you tell me how to install this look" and went on to claim my new Sony HDTV was defective. :-) So I told him to just go ahead and install it using the component cables. HDTV was at the time a new offering in our area and as he was leaving I said "So, is it safe to assume that all the 8300HD's you've installed in the area are connected via the component cables?" to which he replied "Yep". :-)

10-mins after he left I downloaded the setup guide from Scientific Atlantic, pressed the GUIDE + INFO buttons and was into the Setup Wizard. There I quickly located the HDMI audio option which of course was set to "disabled". I enabled audio via HDMI and my TV came to life with video + audio and that's how I've been using it the past 6 months.

Now that I've had to switch back to the component cables I wanted to verify all my settings but for the life of me I can no longer access the Setup Wizard. Very frustrating.

Don't you have a "Settings" button on the supplied remote? That is where I go to configure the SA8300HD's sound output, aspect ratio, etc.

Don't you have a "Settings" button on the supplied remote? That is where I go to configure the SA8300HD's sound output, aspect ratio, etc.
Yeah, it's just not called a Setup Wizard in Passport. It's "Settings" and "More Settings." We eagerly await jgayman's report! :)

Don't you have a "Settings" button on the supplied remote? That is where I go to configure the SA8300HD's sound output, aspect ratio, etc.

Yes, it has both. But I do not see the same HDMI audio choices that I did under the Wizard.

Also, in the Wizard I recalled seeing something about a BYPASS option that is missing under Settings -> More Settings.

Very strange indeed.

The remote that I am using can be seen here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/austin/customer/remote3b.html). The button that I press to access the settings is referred to as "Viewing and Browsing Control."

Yes, it has both. But I do not see the same HDMI audio choices that I did under the Wizard.

Also, in the Wizard I recalled seeing something about a BYPASS option that is missing under Settings -> More Settings.

Very strange indeed.
I'm betting that you actually HAD SARA. The terminology you're citing is SARA. There is no "BYPASS" in Passport-land. In Passport, individual formats (output resolutions) are enabled or disabled. The aspect ratio is a different setting, as is the way 4:3 is displayed on a 16:9 screen (and vice versa).

Yeah, it's just not called a Setup Wizard in Passport. It's "Settings" and "More Settings." We eagerly await jgayman's report! :)Just for info, SARA also has a very similar "settings" and "more settings" arrangement. A few of the options are managed differently between SARA and Passport, but a user familiar with the menus on one would find the menus from the other quite familiar.

The SARA Setup Wizard options are separate from (but can have an effect on) the "normal" settings.

I'm betting that you actually HAD SARA. The terminology you're citing is SARA. There is no "BYPASS" in Passport-land.I've never seen the terminology "Bypass" in SARA, either. Maybe he meant "Pass-through"?

I've never seen the terminology "Bypass" in SARA, either. Maybe he meant "Pass-through"?

Yes, I meant to say Pass-through. My bad. :-)

I just put my 8300HD into DIAG mode and recorded the following information:

Passport Echo ver 2.6.015
OS: PowerTV 6.14.76.2sp

My cable company is Blue Ridge Cable, a small company operating in Central PA. It's a very small market surrounded by a "sea" of Comcast. :)

Despite being Passport, rest assured I **did** initially go into the Setup Wizard following the instructions in the quick guide (INFO+GUIDE). But it no longer works. Go figure.

Any of you renting 2 boxes from TWC? If so how much are they charging you? A rep just told me it would be an additional $20 a month. Seems a bit steep.
For me it would be + $17.50 ($10 DVR service, $5 box rent, $2.50 for add'l digital cable TV).
I resist even getting a second digital tuner (also would be $7.50 total) since I think the extra $2.50 for add'l TVs is tacking on junk fees so I live with the analog channels for now on the extra TVs.

Dan

I will verify when I get home but I'm pretty sure it is Passport.

When the cable guy first installed the 8300HD the HDMI would not work properly. We managed to get video but could not get sound. Component worked fine. I made the suggestion that perhaps there was a "setup menu" as these days everything seems to have a setup menu. :-) The cable guy gave me a disgruntled "how dare you tell me how to install this look" and went on to claim my new Sony HDTV was defective. :-) So I told him to just go ahead and install it using the component cables. HDTV was at the time a new offering in our area and as he was leaving I said "So, is it safe to assume that all the 8300HD's you've installed in the area are connected via the component cables?" to which he replied "Yep". :-)

10-mins after he left I downloaded the setup guide from Scientific Atlantic, pressed the GUIDE + INFO buttons and was into the Setup Wizard. There I quickly located the HDMI audio option which of course was set to "disabled". I enabled audio via HDMI and my TV came to life with video + audio and that's how I've been using it the past 6 months.

Now that I've had to switch back to the component cables I wanted to verify all my settings but for the life of me I can no longer access the Setup Wizard. Very frustrating.
I have to teach my cable guy a few tricks..
Now & then
;)
Lol

Yes, I meant to say Pass-through. My bad. :-)

I just put my 8300HD into DIAG mode and recorded the following information:

Passport Echo ver 2.6.015
OS: PowerTV 6.14.76.2sp

My cable company is Blue Ridge Cable, a small company operating in Central PA. It's a very small market surrounded by a "sea" of Comcast. :)
Well, "passthrough" is a SARA term. I can't explain the seeming discrepancy between what you remember and the fact that your DIAG says Passport. :confused:

pepar (and others),

The Setup Wizard for SARA only allows enabling/disabling formats (480i, 720p, 1080i, etc). AFAIK there is nothing in there referring to audio. The Audio options (HDMI, DD, Other) in SARA are in General Settings (press Settings button twice). Some cableco's have disabled these options so they don't always appear.

Well, "passthrough" is a SARA term. I can't explain the seeming discrepancy between what you remember and the fact that your DIAG says Passport. :confused:Does Passport have any way to switch from HDMI to DD audio?

Does Passport have any way to switch from HDMI to DD audio?
Dunno as I've managed to completely avoid HDMI audio. Both systems with 8300HDs use coaxial digital for audio. For video, one uses component (32" XBR910 Sony in bedroom) and the other uses HDMI>DVI. :)

Does anyone know if the SA8300 DVR will output video over both HDMI & the component outputs? I currently have my TV connected directly to the DVR using HDMI, but I want to make a secondary component connection to my Yamaha AVR which I used for switching video for DVD, VCR, etc. When I try to switch my AVR input to the 8300 I don't get a video signal(DVD comes through ok). Is the HDMI connection shutting down the component video out in the 8300?

I connected both the HDMI and the Component cables from my 8300hd (TWC-Passport fw) to my Sony KDF-50E2000 and when I change video inputs, I can see the the TV on both. Now I don't know if the cable box can detect on which input the TV is set to and then disables the other. I wish that Sony hadn't disabled PiP for this model, then I would be able to tell if they're both active at the same time.

Interesting - my SA8300HD not longer displays 6 days of programming in the scedule, only two. Does anybody know anything about this? I am in the Raleigh Durham TWC area.

Actually, I think this is actually normal. I'd bet you that later in the day, it would get you the 7 days worth of schedule. I've seen this happen for many years now, you try and force them into downloading the data and they won't (can't). I've seen this "clear up" a half hour later.

I'm betting that you actually HAD SARA. The terminology you're citing is SARA. There is no "BYPASS" in Passport-land. In Passport, individual formats (output resolutions) are enabled or disabled. The aspect ratio is a different setting, as is the way 4:3 is displayed on a 16:9 screen (and vice versa).

Here's a pisser, my remote has a "bypass" button. It turns a light on and off on the 8300HD. Other than that, I can find NOTHING else that it actually does. When I first glanced at it, quite a while ago, for about 6 1/2 nanoseconds I thought it meant bypass the commercials. Uh, maybe that was more like 3 nanoseconds...

Does Passport have any way to switch from HDMI to DD audio?

Absolutely. I use it frequently. I have an optical from the 8300 to my AVR. When I set "Dolby Digital" NO audio goes out HDMI to my TV (FWIW, the previous Passport version had audio going out both all the time, i.e. the setting was useless). When I set "HDMI" audio goes to my TV AND also out the optical cable to me AVR. After 11, I switch audio from DD to HDMI and shut down my AVR.

BTW, if you single finger salute another Ancient, their repsonse should be "frak that sh*t."

Ok... I'm at my wits end with this Setup Wizard issue. :-) Just today the cable guy came and installed a second 8300HD DVR. And, just like the first one, I can get video on the HDMI but no audio. 6 months ago when they installed the first one I simply went into the Setup Wizard via the INFO+GUIDE button and set the menu to send audio out over the HDMI.

So here I am with my 2nd DVR and just like the one in the bedroom the INFO+GUIDE does nothing. Despite being a Passport box, the setup wizard worked 6 months ago.

Does anyone have ANY ideas how to get the HDMI to work without the setup wizard. The wizard very clearly had an AUDIO choice under HDMI which allowed you to choose whether the HDMI included audio. I've gone through all the Settings and More Settings and just like my first box there is nothing for setting the audio characteristics of the HDMI port.

This is very frustrating.... even more so because the cable folks are absolutely clueless on any hookups other than component connections.

Here's a pisser, my remote has a "bypass" button. It turns a light on and off on the 8300HD. Other than that, I can find NOTHING else that it actually does. When I first glanced at it, quite a while ago, for about 6 1/2 nanoseconds I thought it meant bypass the commercials. Uh, maybe that was more like 3 nanoseconds...

Ive seen in manuals a 'bypass' module that goes on the back of the box which allows the RF out of the cable box to be 'bypassed' such that the source cable is routed straight to the tv so you can use its tuner. Kinda like the 'source' button on a VCR.

Ah.... just when I was ready to head to the roof - I think I have it figured out. I'm trying to let-go of the Wizard... recognize it no longer works for whatever reason and move on. :-)

I just played with the settings again and VIOLA... there was the HDMI option under audio. It appears that even thought I currently have the DVR connected to both Component and HDMI, the HDMI audio option only appears if the TV is turned on **and** has it's input set to the HDMI. Apparently there is a signal coming from the TV's HDMI port that is telling the DVR it's alive and in turn allowing the DVR to display the HDMI audio option. Meaning it's impossible to setup the DVR for HDMI audio before it's connected.

Except that - the wizard allowed me to do just that. I know, I know.. the wizard. Let it go... deep breaths... I appreciate eveyone's help in getting this straightened out. TV shouldn't be this hard. :-)

Ah.... just when I was ready to head to the roof - I think I have it figured out. I'm trying to let-go of the Wizard... recognize it no longer works for whatever reason and move on. :-)

I just played with the settings again and VIOLA... there was the HDMI option under audio. It appears that even thought I currently have the DVR connected to both Component and HDMI, the HDMI audio option only appears if the TV is turned on **and** has it's input set to the HDMI. Apparently there is a signal coming from the TV's HDMI port that is telling the DVR it's alive and in turn allowing the DVR to display the HDMI audio option. Meaning it's impossible to setup the DVR for HDMI audio before it's connected.

Except that - the wizard allowed me to do just that. I know, I know.. the wizard. Let it go... deep breaths... I appreciate eveyone's help in getting this straightened out. TV shouldn't be this hard. :-)

Sorry, nimnul, but I must nitpick...

V-I-O-L-A (pronounced "vee-oh-la") is a musical instrument, slightly larger than violin.

The word you're looking for is V-O-I-L-A (pronounced "vwah-la"), from the French, to express success or satisfaction.

Sorry, nimnul, but I must nitpick...

V-I-O-L-A (pronounced "vee-oh-la") is a musical instrument, slightly larger than violin.

The word you're looking for is V-O-I-L-A (pronounced "vwah-la"), from the French, to express success or satisfaction.

Thanks for the correction... :D

Ah.... just when I was ready to head to the roof - I think I have it figured out. I'm trying to let-go of the Wizard... recognize it no longer works for whatever reason and move on. :-)

I just played with the settings again and VIOLA... there was the HDMI option under audio. It appears that even thought I currently have the DVR connected to both Component and HDMI, the HDMI audio option only appears if the TV is turned on **and** has it's input set to the HDMI. Apparently there is a signal coming from the TV's HDMI port that is telling the DVR it's alive and in turn allowing the DVR to display the HDMI audio option. Meaning it's impossible to setup the DVR for HDMI audio before it's connected.

Except that - the wizard allowed me to do just that. I know, I know.. the wizard. Let it go... deep breaths... I appreciate eveyone's help in getting this straightened out. TV shouldn't be this hard. :-)HDMI options generally do not show up until an HDMI cable is attached. When you use HDMI and turn the TV on a "handshake" takes place. One of the things that happens is the TV tells the DVR what audio it can accept, usually 2-channel stereo. The audio option to reset this to DD allows one to connect an AVR via digital cable and then receive Dolby Digital audio to the AVR and no audio to the TV. If you read Riverside_Guy's recent posts, this is exactly what he does and he also uses Passport.

Sorry, nimnul, but I must nitpick...

V-I-O-L-A (pronounced "vee-oh-la") is a musical instrument, slightly larger than violin.

The word you're looking for is V-O-I-L-A (pronounced "vwah-la"), from the French, to express success or satisfaction.

I might add it's really a wondrous instrument. A quartet of bass, violin, viola, and cello is killer!

New subject: Remote control for SA 8300HD.

Does anyone know where I can buy another Synergy V remote for my SA8300HD? The cable company won't sell me one. The universal remote I do have does not support the 8300.

I need two remotes. You can ask why... but I think you already know. :)

Sorry, nimnul, but I must nitpick...

V-I-O-L-A (pronounced "vee-oh-la") is a musical instrument, slightly larger than violin.

The word you're looking for is V-O-I-L-A (pronounced "vwah-la"), from the French, to express success or satisfaction.
Actually, voila means "there it is." :)

Does anyone know where I can buy another Synergy V remote for my SA8300HD? The cable company won't sell me one. The universal remote I do have does not support the 8300.Are you sure your universal remote doesn't support it? SA products are common, and I've used a couple of universal remotes (at other peoples' homes) that support them well. What model remote are you using?

I use a Logitech Harmony remote with mine. I wouldn't say it's the best possible solution (I actually prefer the button layout of the cable-supplied remote), but it's certainly adequate. The big bonus is that a single button reconfigures the entire A/V system when shifting between watching TV, watching DVDs, playing video games, etc. It's great for guests.

Logitech has several models. I happen to be using the 720 (http://reviews.cnet.com/remote-controls/logitech-harmony-720/4505-7900_7-31929414.html), but other models work just as well, and may suit your purposes better. (I paid $75 for mine a year ago; I dunno why the prevailing online price today seems to be ~$200.)

I believe that he wants (needs?) two remotes for simultaneous use. The primary "feature" of the Harmony remotes is it's ability to "know" what state that the AV system (TV, cable box, whatever) is in. If two remotes are used the Harmony will be very confused, because the AV system will not be in the "state" that the Harmony "thinks" it is in. The answer is to find a "learning" remote with the right buttons and "learn" the commands from the one remote that you have.

If I had two remotes just like the one which came with the 8300HD it would work fine. One for me, one for the wife. :-) At the moment we have a second 8300HD in the bedroom and I can take the remote from that one and it works fine in the living room and the DVR does not get confused at all.

We do not use the remote for the AV system. I only use it to control the DVR and volume on the TV.

I've tried all the Scientific Atlanta codes for my universal remote and all I can manage is to change channels on the DVR. No power control and no control of the DVR functions. It used to work with our basic SA cable box but not with the DVR.

I'm quite surprised that I can't simply BUY another remote from the cable company. If my remote quit working I'm sure they would replace it with another one. I called them to purchase an additional remote and they said nada.

Ain't electronics fun? :-)

I use a Harmony 688 and my wife uses the SA remote. We use mine to turn things on/off and she then uses hers to control channel/volume/DVR. I don't know what you are willing to spend, but a 3rd party remote will have uses long after you quit using the 8300 and even if they sold you a remote, my guess is they'd overcharge. I'm a little surprised they wouldn't rent you one though.

I believe that he wants (needs?) two remotes for simultaneous use. The primary "feature" of the Harmony remotes is it's ability to "know" what state that the AV system (TV, cable box, whatever) is in. If two remotes are used the Harmony will be very confused, because the AV system will not be in the "state" that the Harmony "thinks" it is in.Whoops--good point. That can be managed, of course, but you're certainly right that there are better (and cheaper) solutions.I'm quite surprised that I can't simply BUY another remote from the cable company. If my remote quit working I'm sure they would replace it with another one. I called them to purchase an additional remote and they said nada.Well...you could convince them to sell you one by telling 'em your current remote accidentally got thrown out with the trash, and you need a replacement...

I don't have any idea what price they might charge, though.

If I had two remotes just like the one which came with the 8300HD it would work fine. One for me, one for the wife. :-) At the moment we have a second 8300HD in the bedroom and I can take the remote from that one and it works fine in the living room and the DVR does not get confused at all. Right. I was really commenting why the Harmony suggestion would not really work for you at all.

My recommendation is still to get a learning remote with the right buttons.

BUT, you can also purchase a suitable remote directly from Scientific Atlanta:

Scientific Atlanta AT8550 Remote (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_Remotes.htm)

BINGO! Thank you Dave! I had visited the SA site to see what remotes they used but I did not see the link for purchasing a remote. For $24.99 my problem is solved.

Thanks again.

- John

[QUOTE=jgayman]Does anyone know where I can buy another Synergy V remote for my SA8300HD? The cable company won't sell me one. QUOTE]

TW So California here says they will sell one for about $18. My parents will need 2 when they get a DVR after their summer vacation, and they could not rent the second, but could buy it. We will see when they actually do it and with the changes in DVRs, may be a different story then. Dan

Interesting - my SA8300HD not longer displays 6 days of programming in the scedule, only two. Does anybody know anything about this? I am in the Raleigh Durham TWC area.

Did you press Guide, then right arrow several times? I often see only 2 days because it is loading new data.

Once in a while it says loading new data, but it doesn't. CB

I'm sure this is a dumb question that got answered on page #142, but can I just plug in any external drive via SATA and be good to go?

I'm sure this is a dumb question that got answered on page #142, but can I just plug in any external drive via SATA and be good to go?Thats a big NO.

You ought to check out the AVS thread devoted to the subject. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=1)

Thats a big NO.

You ought to check out the AVS thread devoted to the subject. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=1)...the first 500 posts of which almost exclusively concern how to connect an external drive to an Explorer 8300HD running SARA, an IPG on which it worked at least 18 months before anyone got a release of Passport with a partial implementation.

Someone should write a FAQ on the subject of the limited external drive capability of recent Passport releases, post it and then PM hall with a request to put a link to that post in the root post of this thread. (Not me, since I never connected an external drive to my Passport DVR when I had one--I actually never bothered to "upgrade" my 8000HD to an 8300HD while I lived in TWC territory).

...the first 500 posts of which almost exclusively concern how to connect an external drive to an Explorer 8300HD running SARA, an IPG on which it worked at least 18 months before anyone got a release of Passport with a partial implementation.

Someone should write a FAQ on the subject of the limited external drive capability of recent Passport releases, post it and then PM hall with a request to put a link to that post in the root post of this thread. (Not me, since I never connected an external drive to my Passport DVR when I had one--I actually never bothered to "upgrade" my 8000HD to an 8300HD while I lived in TWC territory).
Yes, but the very first post has a link to Xnappo's Passport database. ;)

I've previously suggested that the thread be broken up into separate SARA and Passport external drive threads - but that went nowhere.

BUT, that thread is still the right place to discuss external drive issues and get information. With any thread, its always a good idea to read the first couple of pages and then read the last few.

why is there more talk about SARA in this "Passport software" thread than Passport talk?

why is there more talk about SARA in this "Passport software" thread than Passport talk?I don't think there is, don't get confused by the signatures. Sometimes when folks are trying to figure some things out, referring to how SARA works might point them in the right direction when looking for similar settings/options.

Then too, some folks just happen to post in this thread without knowing which software they have. They are quickly referred to the right thread.

The other thing is that Passport is being replaced by Navigator and Naviator seems to work like SARA in some ways and Passport in others, so the topics become somewhat muddied.

Interesting - my SA8300HD not longer displays 6 days of programming in the scedule, only two. Does anybody know anything about this? I am in the Raleigh Durham TWC area.

An update on the abreviated schedule problem. As part of the "diagnosis", the TWC manager sent a factory reboot to my box, erasing 360 GB of HD programming - movies and pay per view events that cannot be recovered. I cancelled my service. TWC sucks really bad, but I have enjoyed participating in this forum. Adios, my SA8300HD compadres.

An update on the abreviated schedule problem. As part of the "diagnosis", the TWC manager sent a factory reboot to my box, erasing 360 GB of HD programming - movies and pay per view events that cannot be recovered. I cancelled my service. TWC sucks really bad, but I have enjoyed participating in this forum. Adios, my SA8300HD compadres.Even though I caution against using a DVR for any kind of archiving, that is a real shame and shows just how little these numbskulls know about their system. There is no way they should have gone anywhere near a complete reset. It's simply rarely, if ever, necessary, and even when it is the last resort, it should be up to the user, not some cableco CSR. If it's any consolation though, if you actually had to replace the unit, you still would have lost everything. This is a loophole in the current system where recorded stuff can't be moved to a new unit, not even by the cableco for a fee. :(

why is there more talk about SARA in this "Passport software" thread than Passport talk?

The guys you should generally pay attention to totally understand the concepts of 2 softwares...besides, while I may take exception every now and then, I still want to hear everything guys like Dave Hancock have to say.

Even though I caution against using a DVR for any kind of archiving, that is a real shame and shows just how little these numbskulls know about their system. There is no way they should have gone anywhere near a complete reset. It's simply rarely, if ever, necessary, and even when it is the last resort, it should be up to the user, not some cableco CSR. If it's any consolation though, if you actually had to replace the unit, you still would have lost everything. This is a loophole in the current system where recorded stuff can't be moved to a new unit, not even by the cableco for a fee. :(

Oh I seriously doubt they "can't." They won't; I'm sure they have the ability. While on so many levels they do look like total boobs, they couldn't possible hope to stay in business without some very sharp engineering talent. They keep those guys way off the public scene for obvious reasons.

Oh I seriously doubt they "can't." They won't; I'm sure they have the ability. While on so many levels they do look like total boobs, they couldn't possible hope to stay in business without some very sharp engineering talent. They keep those guys way off the public scene for obvious reasons.
I'm pretty sure that they do NOT have the skills (or the skilz) to do anything with recorded content. My understanding is that it is encrypted on an individual box level. SA may have a way of ghosting the data, but not the cable companies. I'd prefer to be wrong.

Anyone got Passport with a version beyond 2.6.002?

I'm pretty sure that they do NOT have the skills (or the skilz) to do anything with recorded content. My understanding is that it is encrypted on an individual box level. SA may have a way of ghosting the data, but not the cable companies. I'd prefer to be wrong.

We'll never know. To my knowledge, nobody from Scientific Atlanta, or the Aptiv group, has ever posted here to enlighten us on just what or what isn't possible, and nobody from here has ever been able to communicate with them and report back. We sort of pontificate based on what we're able to accomplish by trial and error, and guess at the rest. That's too bad, because they have the knowledge to make our entertainment lives easier if they would just choose to do so. And they could do it anonymously if they were uneasy about sharing information with their end-customers. Yet, we hear nothing, and keep guessing.

. . they have the knowledge to make our entertainment lives easier if they would just choose to do so.
Perhaps it's a matter of them not being at liberty to do so. I consider myself fortunate to have the ability to time shift hi-def material. The content owners might have agreed to that only BECAUSE of the inability to do what we're discussing here. :)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :p

Perhaps it's a matter of them not being at liberty to do so. I consider myself fortunate to have the ability to time shift hi-def material. The content owners might have agreed to that only BECAUSE of the inability to do what we're discussing here. :)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :p

They had a solid encryption system for firewire, and a device that was authorized to receive it - the D-VHS tape deck. But sometime about a year ago, that capability was removed for most of us. There are still a handful of technically savvy people who can dump 5C-free OTA HD material to computer as long as the 8300 is running SARA software (Passport - NO!), and some of the Motorola DVR's still have that capability, but the rest of us are out of luck.

There's no logical reason for this. There was no threat of HD piracy out there with the restrictions they had in place, and there still isn't. If cable companies deliberately removed this capability, in spite of the renowned FCC mandate to provide it, then they're breaking the law. And getting clean away with it, too. :(

We'll never know. To my knowledge, nobody from Scientific Atlanta, or the Aptiv group, has ever posted here to enlighten us on just what or what isn't possible, and nobody from here has ever been able to communicate with them and report back.The problem is (you know) is that there are just too many variations out there for a central group to really respond. Further, THEIR customer's are the cable companies - so they respond (or don't) to those customers. If they responded directly to end users, they might give answers that are inconsistent with their direct customers. So they keep quiet!

If I had two remotes just like the one which came with the 8300HD it would work fine. One for me, one for the wife. :-) At the moment we have a second 8300HD in the bedroom and I can take the remote from that one and it works fine in the living room and the DVR does not get confused at all.

We do not use the remote for the AV system. I only use it to control the DVR and volume on the TV.

I've tried all the Scientific Atlanta codes for my universal remote and all I can manage is to change channels on the DVR. No power control and no control of the DVR functions. It used to work with our basic SA cable box but not with the DVR.

I'm quite surprised that I can't simply BUY another remote from the cable company. If my remote quit working I'm sure they would replace it with another one. I called them to purchase an additional remote and they said nada.

Ain't electronics fun? :-)
Maybe you need to ask them if they will add another R/C as a "LEASE"????

or try Fleabay...about $25...search for "Atlas Remote Control"....or maybe "UEI".

FYI: Cox and TWC versions of the UEI Atlas R/C work on either system.

UEI also makes the ONE-FOR-ALL and KAMELEON R/C units found in local stores and on-line.

Personally can't stand any R/C (e.g. Kameleon) that puts transport keys at the BOTTOM....
Here's a typical (inexpensive) example worth looking into (presuming A/B/C keys can be "learned"):
http://www.amazon.com/8-DEVICE-Learning-Upgradeable-Universal-Remote/dp/B00083J29O******pd_bbs_sr_3/104-9435971-9075120?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186605173&sr=1-3

Or spend $100+ for Harmony, URC MX-series, Philips or Sony R/C with programmable MENU controls:
www.remotecentral.com

Right. I was really commenting why the Harmony suggestion would not really work for you at all.

My recommendation is still to get a learning remote with the right buttons.

BUT, you can also purchase a suitable remote directly from Scientific Atlanta:

Scientific Atlanta AT8550 Remote (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_Remotes.htm)
I just found AT8550 currently on Fleabay/Froogle for $7...."Buy It Now"

The problem is (you know) is that there are just too many variations out there for a central group to really respond. Further, THEIR customer's are the cable companies - so they respond (or don't) to those customers. If they responded directly to end users, they might give answers that are inconsistent with their direct customers. So they keep quiet!

I don't know if I buy that argument. Everybody on TWC Passport lost firewire capability at about the same time after they pushed a new version, this time last year, and nobody's gotten it back since. That speaks to a "global" software issue, not localized. And that means it's probably fixable, if they wanted to. But it would be nice to get the hardware/software engineer's opinion anyway, because I'm tired of fighting the issue in the dark. Don't know what the problem is, and can't get anyone who would know what it is to come forward and shine a light on it.

Where is Squeaky Fromme when we need her?

Dude, we don't need a bumbling would-be assassin, we need a spy or informant who would give us the answers we need. ;)

There's no logical reason for this. There was no threat of HD piracy out there with the restrictions they had in place, and there still isn't. If cable companies deliberately removed this capability, in spite of the renowned FCC mandate to provide it, then they're breaking the law. And getting clean away with it, too. :(Do you know if it is broken on other Passport boxes, like the 3250HD, or just the 8300HD? If just the 8300, then it's possible TWC simply disabled the port. If both, then that could still be the case, but it could also have been broken in the software. Also, if both, then it would appear they are going against the FCC rule. Either way, I agree someone should at least be able to provide info. If it's broke, simply say it's being worked. If disabled on the 8300, but not the 3250, simply say so and recommend the 3250. I don't know what they gain by saying nothing. :(

No, it's disabled on all TWC Scientific Atlanta STB's, including the HD3250 as well as the 8300's. It all happened at once around this time last year (I had a 3250 for just that purpose, along with an 8300). At least all the ones that are running Passport. Based on what I've been able to glean between the lines from the firewire sticky thread (they don't like to answer questions about this there), some people with SARA are still having some success dumping to computer, but I don't think D-VHS is working for them either.

My experience is that no HD channels will sustain a stable firewire lock with my JVC 40k tape deck. Sometimes I get a lock for a minute or so, then it breaks; most of the time I don't even get that. They must know this, because they're not even bothering to set the 5C flags anymore (indeed, all HD channels perform the same, regardless of 5C status). Yet I can't get any information out of TWC, nothing. I ask the questions and get ignored. Been going on for a year now. I've tried every approach I can think of to get some clarity on this issue, including threatening to go to the FCC, with no results. It's frustrating. That's why I got a second 8300 to "archive" HD movies that I should be able to dump off to tape if my damn equipment worked the way it's supposed to.

Why threaten to go to the FCC? Why not file a formal complaint? Has anyone tried doing that?

Of course, Dave Hancock contends that the omission of the word "working" in the paragraph requiring HDMI-or-DVI/HDCP and 1394/DTCP connections on boxes after a certain date means that the provided connections don't have to work. He may be right, and the cable providers have decided to take advantage :rolleyes: :D.

Why threaten to go to the FCC? Why not send them a complaint? Has anyone tried doing that?

Of course, Dave Hancock contentds that the omission of the word "working" in the paragraph requiring HDMI-or-DVI/HDCP and 1394/DTCP connections on boxes after a certain date means that the provided connections don't have to work. He may be right :D :rolleyes:.Thanks for remembering that Michael - but that particular debate was over the need for any (every) STB having a working 1394 port. BUT, the FCC wording (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf) clearly requires that they MUST provide A HD box with a FUNCTIONAL 1394 port:

(4) Cable operators shall:
(i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request
of a customer, replace any leased
high definition set-top box, which does
not include a functional IEEE 1394
interface, with one that includes a
functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade
the customer’s set-top box by
download or other means to ensure
that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.


I am not too familiar with the process to complain to the FCC, but from reading the rules it appears that such complaints likely have to come from the local cable franchising authority. Perhaps contacting local government to find out how to contact the local cable authority would be the most effective way to start.

There's information about filing a consumer complaint on the FCC's website here (http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html) as well as phone numbers for calling people who can help you file. They have an actual "Consumer Inquiries & Complaints" division:
The Consumer Inquiries and Complaints Division provides informal mediation and resolution of individual informal consumer inquiries and complaints consistent with controlling laws and FCC regulations, and in accordance with the Bureau's delegated authority. The Division receives, reviews and analyzes complaints and responses to informal consumer complaints; maintains manual and computerized files that provide for the tracking and maintenance of informal consumer inquiries and complaints; mediates and attempts to settle unresolved disputes in informal complaints as appropriate; and coordinates with other Bureaus and Offices to ensure that consumers are provided with accurate, up-to-date information.I know that participants in these forums have filed complaints pertaining to non-compliance with the rule against encrypting rebroadcast of local digital television and have gotten results.

I ask the questions and get ignored. Been going on for a year now. I've tried every approach I can think of to get some clarity on this issue, including threatening to go to the FCC, with no results. It's frustrating. . Try this page :cool: http://www.ncdoj.com/consumerprotection/cp_cable_tips.jsp

We'll never know. To my knowledge, nobody from Scientific Atlanta, or the Aptiv group, has ever posted here to enlighten us on just what or what isn't possible, and nobody from here has ever been able to communicate with them and report back. We sort of pontificate based on what we're able to accomplish by trial and error, and guess at the rest. That's too bad, because they have the knowledge to make our entertainment lives easier if they would just choose to do so. And they could do it anonymously if they were uneasy about sharing information with their end-customers. Yet, we hear nothing, and keep guessing.

Boy have you hit one of my pet peeves on the head. They just refuse to give us, the paying customers, any meaningful information. Part of that is probably due to those idiot customers who will take a "we trying to do this by x, but may not" and pillory them mercilessly if they don't meet that date.

Perhaps it's a matter of them not being at liberty to do so. I consider myself fortunate to have the ability to time shift hi-def material. The content owners might have agreed to that only BECAUSE of the inability to do what we're discussing here. :)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :p

An ability that comes to us all by virtue of the high court establishing a legal precedent. As such, I consider it a "right."

A "right" that probably wouldn't have been granted by the current court.

Dude, we don't need a bumbling would-be assassin, we need a spy or informant who would give us the answers we need. ;)

At this point, we need to sic Jack Bauer on them! Instead of blowing off kneecaps, he can capture the CEO, strip him naked and dump him in midtown Manhattan... or else.

An ability that comes to us all by virtue of the high court establishing a legal precedent. As such, I consider it a "right."

A "right" that probably wouldn't have been granted by the current court.
OK, OK, I'm with you. :cool:

FWIW, several years ago, any complaints were filed with the state agency in NY (the PSC). That changed as we now file (via web form, so it's pretty easy) to the city's Department of Information Technology & Telecommunications (DOITT).

"Do Itt" Gotta love that acronym. :)

"Do Itt" Gotta love that acronym. :)It really is an efficient process. :cool:

If you're not getting a response from the cable company, fill out one of these babies and they actually do get back to you. ;)

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/consumer/consumer_cable_service_form.shtml

An ability that comes to us all by virtue of the high court establishing a legal precedent. As such, I consider it a "right."

A "right" that probably wouldn't have been granted by the current court.That high court decision explicitly gave you the right to timeshift, not to archive (and it explicitly pertained only to over-the-air television and not subscription cable, and contained footnotes to that effect). One of the arguments against the decision was that people would build up libraries of archived copies of programs which would cost the studio potential profits on the sale of those programs on tape. The decision pooh-pooh'd this suggestion, stating that insufficient proof was offered that people would create any such libraries. I think that it could be conclusively proven today.

All of this is beside the point--the FCC regulations require that they give you some kind of a STB with working 1394/DTCP on demand, and that requirement has been in place for two or three years now. If your cable provider won't provide you with any STB for lease with working 1394/DTCP then they're in violation.

I'm sure it is and I'd bet we'd all be happier if others adopted such a process. That has been one of the weakest parts of the cable "monopoly" IMHO, it's too hard for customers to be heard with any kind of credibility. I'm afraid I'm as guilty as anyone of accepting the status quo. Generally though I'm farily happy with my cable service, but I'm never happy about prices, including competing satco's, etc. I looked at the form, but it so general that it's difficult to see exactly what kinds of problems DOITT will work. I mean, if I complain about prices, what good does it really do? The few times I've noted a discrepancy, the cableco fixed things before the next bill. I suppose though that some folks don't get that kind fo response.

Mike,

Did you read your last sentence or is it just messed up on my system? I can read it okay if I quote it.

Mike,

Did you read your last sentence or is it just messed up on my system? I can read it okay if I quote it.It was "If your cable provider won't provide you with any STB for lease with working 1394/DTCP then they're in violation. " It's an awkward sentence, but I wouldn't call it "messed up" :D.

It was "If your cable provider won't provide you with any STB for lease with working 1394/DTCP then they're in violation. " It's an awkward sentence, but I wouldn't call it "messed up" :D.I'd call it quite accurate (and much clearer than a lot of the FCC "regulations"). ;)

It was "If your cable provider won't provide you with any STB for lease with working 1394/DTCP then they're in violation. " It's an awkward sentence, but I wouldn't call it "messed up" :D.That's not what showed up on my screen, there were missing words and letters unless I quoted it. Of course, now it reads just fine, so what did you do? Or was there just a gremlin visiting me for awhile? Strange, unless you're pulling my leg and then the jokes on me. :)

That's not what showed up on my screen, there were missing words and letters unless I quoted it. Of course, now it reads just fine, so what did you do? Or was there just a gremlin visiting me for awhile? Strange, unless you're pulling my leg and then the jokes on me. :) :D No I saw the same thing as you :confused: :cool:

I'm sure it is and I'd bet we'd all be happier if others adopted such a process. That has been one of the weakest parts of the cable "monopoly" IMHO, it's too hard for customers to be heard with any kind of credibility. I'm afraid I'm as guilty as anyone of accepting the status quo. Generally though I'm farily happy with my cable service, but I'm never happy about prices, including competing satco's, etc. I looked at the form, but it so general that it's difficult to see exactly what kinds of problems DOITT will work. I mean, if I complain about prices, what good does it really do? The few times I've noted a discrepancy, the cableco fixed things before the next bill. I suppose though that some folks don't get that kind fo response.

Up until about 6 months ago I was mostly content with my TWC service. But a series of "events" have really, really soured me on them. Like contracting for 5 HD speciality channels, losing one and being promised it would be replaced only to find another of the 4 remaining was removed leaving only 3 with no rate change. Then giving one borough 4 extra HD channels AND reducing their rates really got to me (I pay more for less). And through it all, only a stonewalling of silence from them. All of this, to me, says "frak you, take what we give you or go away" KNOWING that I have no real alternate choice TODAY. AND the fact that they will come offering me bones when FIOS becomes more of an actual reality on my block.

R_G,

That is one thing that would p*ss me off too. I'm still happy with Cox, but that may because we continue to move forward, adding more channels, and I fully expect them to rival DirecTV this fall, at least for the channels I care about. But, in your case, I could get pretty stubborn when FIOS comes, even if it costs me a tad more money. If they don't value your support now, why should you give in to their carrots when they have some real competition? Unfortunately, the pessimist in me says FIOS will not really do any more than sat has to lower prices. FIOS will price lower to grab your business initially, but what happens after that is anyone's guess.

I'm with you Dave. I just think that when it is actually available, pricing and channels could very well be fairly competitive between Verizon and TWC. And I'll be the elephant with the long memory.

Besides, my decisions on any of this stuff must include Internet access which is just as important as TV.

I'm with you Dave. I just think that when it is actually available, pricing and channels could very well be fairly competitive between Verizon and TWC. And I'll be the elephant with the long memory.

Besides, my decisions on any of this stuff must include Internet access which is just as important as TV.Love the elephant comment! And, yes, internet service always enters into the equasion when comparing overall prices, doesn't it? IMHO, that is still where cable has the edge, though single billing agreements do help with competitors. I just know too many people who tried the DSL/sat route and went back to cable while they still could, at least for internet service.

I just know too many people who tried the DSL/sat route and went back to cable while they still could, at least for internet service.You are right there (DSL/Sat). But I suspect the story is the other way around when considering cable vs FiOS! ;)

You are right there (DSL/Sat). But I suspect the story is the other way around when considering cable vs FiOS! ;)That would be my guess too, though I have seen reports that not everyone is overjoyed. That could just be that it isn't as big a difference in price/lineup as was expected though. I suspect I won't see that as an option for a long time here in Phoenix, so Qworst/DirecTV and Dish/whatever are the only options.

Love the elephant comment! And, yes, internet service always enters into the equasion when comparing overall prices, doesn't it? IMHO, that is still where cable has the edge, though single billing agreements do help with competitors. I just know too many people who tried the DSL/sat route and went back to cable while they still could, at least for internet service.

Don't pretty much all areas have DSL capability from their local telco? In my market, SOME can get satellite, but satellite doesn't offer Internet access. So the choice (for only those that CAN get satellite) is to go for DSL (here that means 3 Mb/s VS. 7Mb/s down), OR pay an extra 10 bucks a month to TWC to keep RR.

But Dave's following post is right on the button... FIOS sure as hell is sounding interesting, their Internet service has it all over TWC's RR. Except I really think my hood is 2 years away from it's availability... it took TWC about 2 1/2 years to cover all of my borough, if Verizon IS going to go fiber into the apartment, my speculation about that time frame could be very short.

Don't pretty much all areas have DSL capability from their local telco? In my market, SOME can get satellite, but satellite doesn't offer Internet access. So the choice (for only those that CAN get satellite) is to go for DSL (here that means 3 Mb/s VS. 7Mb/s down), OR pay an extra 10 bucks a month to TWC to keep RR.


I wouldn't say ALL areas. Where I live we just got DSL service 18-months ago and cable Internet service 6-months ago. A guy I work with lives close to a metro area but has no cable access at all and no DSL from the telco. He currently gets TV from Dish but Internet access is still dial-up.

I wouldn't say ALL areas. Where I live we just got DSL service 18-months ago and cable Internet service 6-months ago. A guy I work with lives close to a metro area but has no cable access at all and no DSL from the telco. He currently gets TV from Dish but Internet access is still dial-up.
AFAIK/R know the quality of a DSL connection is highly dependent on the condition of the line between you and your ILEC, and of course if the line is crappy, it's pretty much impossible to get it improved, so you'll just end up "messing around" with DSL for a month or two until you give up and likely end up fighting with verizon, et al over early cancellation. I currently have D* and Cable-HSI, but supposedly FIOS is available in my neighborhood, so once the promo price on my Cable-HSI runs out I might give it a whirl for HSI...oh, um to keep this post "on-topic" I really like the 8300-HD-DVR's PIP functionality (not sure if this is just w/the passport version), can anyone think of any other dual tuner boxes that do PIP?

How about this as an option:

DirecTV customers will be able to access the Internet by plugging a BPL modem into virtually any outlet in their home. This symmetrical service can send data faster than the typical cable modem service in use today.

From here:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6468994.html

How about this as an option:

DirecTV customers will be able to access the Internet by plugging a BPL modem into virtually any outlet in their home. This symmetrical service can send data faster than the typical cable modem service in use today.

From here:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6468994.html
So now all they need to do is get all of the different power companies on board, that should be no problem considering how accomidating, reasonable, and more important regulation free they typically are :rolleyes: so I'm guessing I can expect to see this in Los Angeles about the same time we get another NFL franchise?

What is the difference between the 8000 and the 8300? I have 8300 and a friend just got HD and they gave him the 8000 - both Time Warner.

Thanks, CB

The 8000HD is an older model, which usually doesn't have an HDMI connection whereas the 8300HD usually does (not that cable companies support them, but often users can get them to work well enough). It's also based on slower processors (and possibly less memory), so the menus are less responsive. There are those who claim that actual video resolution, as measured using test patterns, is higher on the 8300HD.

I'd complain and ask for the newer model on general principles.

The 8000HD is an older model, which usually doesn't have an HDMI connection whereas the 8300HD usually does (not that cable companies support them, but often users can get them to work well enough). It's also based on slower processors (and possibly less memory), so the menus are less responsive. There are those who claim that actual video resolution, as measured using test patterns, is higher on the 8300HD.

I'd complain and ask for the newer model on general principles.
TW out here "doesn't suport" HDMI, but when the guy came to install the table he used an unused HDMI cable that was hanging out of my TV just for him (i was at work at the time), he however did not hook-up the SPDIF/optical audio to my receiver, maybe he didn't know what it was

TW out here "doesn't suport" HDMI, What do you mean "TW....doesn't support HDMI"?

Often using component is simplest, but corporate TW has made an effort to educate their folks (http://www.cable360.net/print/ct/operations/bestpractices/23213.html).

What do you mean "TW....doesn't support HDMI"?

Often using component is simplest, but corporate TW has made an effort to educate their folks (http://www.cable360.net/print/ct/operations/bestpractices/23213.html).
that's just depresing, i love how it tries to give the technical details, but in terms of troubleshooting, we certainly can't expect the TW techs to have a scope or logic analyzer

I just got the new 8300 HD DVR from Time Warner New York. I hooked it up and find that when I change stations and the resolution changes from station to station, the picture on my TV goes from picture to black to picture to black and stays black for about 5 seconds. I called Time Warner about this and they said they don't support HDMI (or DVI) and to use the component cables I was given. That would fix the problem. I told them that the cable doesn't give as sharp a picture as the HDMI. They said they couldn't help me and that is the way the box works. I called Scientific Atlanta and they said I have to go into the service menu in the box and I can choose just the 1080 resolution and that should solve the problem. I am not sure that I believe this but I am willing to try it. The problem is that Time Warner has the code (what buttons to press either on the box or the remote to get into the menu) and they won't give it out. They say the box shouldn't be changed. Considering the amount of my cable bill each month I am not willing to accept second rate cable. Is anyone else having this problem and what can I do about it? It is extremely annoying and I am considering going to Direct TV.

Are you saying that Time Warner has disabled the Settings -> (A) More Settings buttons?

I have two 8300HD's, one on a 23" LCD and one on a 40" LCD. I had them both initially connected with component cables and then later switched to HDMI and quite frankly I cannot tell the difference. However, I do have both of mine set to output everything at 1080i. This eliminates all of the black screens and format changes when going from station to station. I think it even makes SD stations look better but that could be just me.

If you can get into Settings -> More Settings and go to Output Format. Set it so that 1080i is the only output format selected and the 8300HD will convert everything to 1080i.

Jgayman is correct, but just so you're absolutely clear:

Press the "Settings" button on your remote.

When the on-screen Settings menu comes up, press the "A" button, which will get you deeper in the Settings menu.

Now, scroll down to the "Output Formats" section with your up/down keys on the remote selector pad. Once "Output Formats" is highlighted, press either the Select button or the Right arrow key on the remote to actually get into the Output Formats section.

Now, you will use your up/down keys on the remote again. Each output resolution your DVR is set to display will have a white circle next to it. Using your up/down keys, scroll to each one you don't want. Pressing the "Select" button will toggle that resolution OFF (pressing it again will toggle it back ON).

Go through each of the output resolutions and toggle them OFF EXCEPT the 1080i resolution.

The 1080i resolution, then, will be the only one left with a white circle/dot next to it.

Press the "A" button to accept your changes. Then, press the Exit button.

You'll be all set. Now the box won't delay going from the stations that are 720p, 1080i, and 480i.

Note: If your hdtv is like mine, toggling OFF 480i will not allow you to stretch the SD channels. Of course, your set might still allow you to do this. So, that's up to you to find out. My set is a two-year old Panasonic 37" plasma. That model wouldn't allow you to stretch 1080i channels that were broadcasting 4:3 (regular tv) shows. This year's model does, however.

What do you mean "TW....doesn't support HDMI"?

I subscribe to Charter on the Central Coast of California (halfway between SF and LA) and they, too said that the 8300 does not support HDMI. My question is that I had it hooked up with an HDMI cable and it would display both audio and video, but intermittently. Basically, it would work for a split second, then go black, then work, then go black, and would repeat this cycle. My question is that if this box didn't support HDMI output, then why was it even displaying anything at all? Could it have been that I just got a bad box that had a poor HDMI connection? Or literally, do these things ship to specific markets with the HDMI port disabled?

You guys have the older DVR's that were Passport. They allowed you to go into the settings and change the resolution. Beware--the new boxes are not passport and TW has changed them so that you can only change the resolution (as you describe by using the settings button for the Passport boxes) when you use component cables. When you are using HDMI or DVI, when you go into "output formats" it says you CANNOT (they have it in caps) change the format. According to SA that makes the boxes, you can do this in the service menu in the DVR but TW has changed the code for getting into the menu and won't give it out. I have talked to 4 people at SA and the codes they have given me are wrong. That means they don't even have it.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE NEW BOXES.

You guys have the older DVR's that were Passport. They allowed you to go into the settings and change the resolution. Beware--the new boxes are not passport and TW has changed them so that you can only change the resolution (as you describe by using the settings button for the Passport boxes) when you use component cables. When you are using HDMI or DVI, when you go into "output formats" it says you CANNOT (they have it in caps) change the format. According to SA that makes the boxes, you can do this in the service menu in the DVR but TW has changed the code for getting into the menu and won't give it out. I have talked to 4 people at SA and the codes they have given me are wrong. That means they don't even have it.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE NEW BOXES.

Oh boy does that suck! My display has only one component input and that is being used for my DV player. Then again, resolution switching on my Sammie is just not that bad, it runs barely a second to 1.5 seconds.

Good catch and post for a newbie, welcome to AVS!

You guys have the older DVR's that were Passport. They allowed you to go into the settings and change the resolution. Beware--the new boxes are not passport and TW has changed them so that you can only change the resolution (as you describe by using the settings button for the Passport boxes) when you use component cables. When you are using HDMI or DVI, when you go into "output formats" it says you CANNOT (they have it in caps) change the format. According to SA that makes the boxes, you can do this in the service menu in the DVR but TW has changed the code for getting into the menu and won't give it out. I have talked to 4 people at SA and the codes they have given me are wrong. That means they don't even have it.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE NEW BOXES.

I thought this fixed resolution was going to be a problem for me in regards to the SD pillar bars, but the new box allows me to change the pillar bar color for SD channels to black, which my old 8300HD running passport did not.

I have no problems at all with HDMI on the new 8300HDC box changing from channels that run in 480p, 720p, or 1080i and I'm happy with the upconversion it does on the 480p and 720p channels.

You guys have the older DVR's that were Passport. They allowed you to go into the settings and change the resolution. Beware--the new boxes are not passport and TW has changed them so that you can only change the resolution (as you describe by using the settings button for the Passport boxes) when you use component cables. When you are using HDMI or DVI, when you go into "output formats" it says you CANNOT (they have it in caps) change the format. According to SA that makes the boxes, you can do this in the service menu in the DVR but TW has changed the code for getting into the menu and won't give it out. I have talked to 4 people at SA and the codes they have given me are wrong. That means they don't even have it.
Unless they have all formats turned on effectively "passing" the received format, that means the box is doing deinterlacing and/or scaling. With the quality of these circuits in newer displays and AVRs, I would pitch a bitch if I found my 8300HD was set up that way.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE NEW BOXES.
As if anyone has a choice. :(