I have my plasma hooked up to my SA8300HD box with HDMI. When I choose HDMI in settings for audio output on the PVR I get 2 channel stereo from the optical output to my Yamaha receiver instead of Dolby Digital. If I choose Dolby Digital in those settings it cuts the audio to the TV and outputs DD to the receiver only. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks.

Yes, that is what I get as well... this "behavior" is actually specific to the latest (and last) version of Passport. The version I had previously had audio active on all ports no matter what. I LOVE it this way because the only reason I switch is for late nights and a desire not to annoy my downstairs neighbors (I run a 2-400 watt per channel Carver feeding 4 10" woofers that can easily make everything in my pre-war building rock!). Previously, I had to switch the STB AND the TV (turn the speakers back on). Now I set the STB to HDMI and switch off the AVR.

BTW, even with the same STB and software, no guarentee this works... we have "seen" that even with everything seemingly identical, one location can have options another does not.

Less Button Presses=More Elegance

From an earlier post

--snip--

It's worth a shot, you have nothing to loose (except finding out it doesn't work for you combo).

Nice post!

Passport doesn't have a setting for this. The only way to get it is if your television can do black bars; if so, you can tell the box to pass 4:3 format signals straight through to the TV. Be aware that some televisions will take a significant amount of time to switch formats and do something visually ugly.

What I have found is that one MUST allow all received resolutions to pass THROUGH the STB for it to work. AND that there are BIG differences in how the TV deals. My Sammie is pretty quick to switch from 720p to 1080i, but my sister's Sony takes FAR longer. BUT I am a big channel switcher and she rarely switches channels a lot, so this works just fine for us.

BTW, the "ugly" I see is snow.

I would not give up until you have examined: The actual output of the STB against the selected options in the menu. Some places lock the output to 1080i with attendant sidebars no matter what you choose, or some TV do not accept 480i over HDMI, forcing an up-convert to ___ (which is what I was getting at above...) The setting of the # or Zoom button on the remote. IIRC, (in 1.8.x, in KS and FL, etc., etc.) it acted in series with the aspect controls in the menu settings, and was not a shortcut for cycling through those options. Thus, it should usually be set at Normal to allow the Settings, More Settings, Output / Aspect selections to act intuitively. And finally, what started this whole business: the effects of telling the box your 4:3 TV is really a 16:9, or vice-versa. Often the preferred setting is non-intuitive, it was for me...v/r,
C-F

i found that if i enable all output formats (1080i,720p,480p,480i) the grey sidebars on analog channels will display as black. this is with it also set to standard(4:3),letterbox 16x9 picture. however, set like this my Tv also tries to change the aspect to what it calls "full". this makes the image have bars on top and bottom on digital 480 channels, watching DrWho (this looks right).
when it applies this same setting to some 1080 (tbs, a&e)channels it appears as a stretched image. even the guide is stretched to fill the screen.
if i change the TV aspect to "normal" the digital 480 channels become full letterbox with bars all the way around. the same 1080 channels (tbs,a&e)become side barred(this looks right) and guide goes back to sidebar. shows that are 720 on CBS and normally have sidebars become squished (the sidebars get wider and the picture gets narrow and tall). the guide squishes along with it. i never had these things happen when i was playing with SARA.

my TV (60XBR2) has aspect settings called "normal", "full", "stretch", "zoom".
the box is connected by component.
i also don't really notice any difference in PQ by allowing the box to do this passthrough of all formats. (the TV verifies that the box is indeed sending broadcast through as 480,1080 and 720) so i think i can live with the grey sidebars on the analog channels. i didn't watch them much before and will probably watch them even less since along with passport they also added about 100 channels and many of the analog stations are available as digital SD and/or HD channels too. the wife gets pissed when she's watching a show and i begin to fiddle so i think i'm gonna leave it set to 1080 for the time being and just avoid having to constantly change aspect on the TV and i wont be seeing the squiggly mess when i change channels. but i will still play with it some just to see whats possible when i'm alone.

The setting of the # or Zoom button on the remote. IIRC, (in 1.8.x, in KS and FL, etc., etc.) it acted in series with the aspect controls in the menu settings, and was not a shortcut for cycling through those options. Thus, it should usually be set at Normal to allow the Settings, More Settings, Output / Aspect selections to act intuitively.

i have not messed with this i'll check it out.

One odd point... before the current versin of passport, I used a different "trick" to get black sidebars. BUT on CBS HD, I woiuld see 4:3 content with gray sidebars... obviously addded by CBS.
I've always thought that gray sidebars are the best for avoiding burn-in. As such, I simply ignore them knowing that it's for the good of the display.

Great, glad you found something you like. But strutter desired to see the correct aspect ratio without the grey bars, so there are other potential options for him/her to explore.

v/r,
C-F

i dont mind side bars as long as they are supposed to be there and maintain the correct aspect without distorting the picture like stretch does. i just dont care for grey sidebars. SARA would let me change this to be all and only grey or black. not some channels grey and some black.

BTW im a him:D

(example, Samsung has straight forward settings, Sony's are weird, they have a section for each with "Full" and "Normal" for each; in doing this on a Sony, I had to spend half an hour to find the right combo... on my Sammie it was one setting, boom, done).

yep. mines a sony kdsr60xbr2. it has full, normal, wide, stretch, zoom

Thanks again guys, to clarify further, yes the coax coming out of the 8300 upstairs would just go into the coax tuner on the Panny downstairs, I had mentioned the addition of the HD box on the Panny so HD can be watched as well by switching from channel 3 to the HDMI input, I would have both options. This is how the dish system would work as well to get HD on the second TV.

Ok , i have never used the parental block or a Pin to order PPV so i never set up a number for either of these.

aparently my box defaulted to adult channels blocked and a pin set up for ordering PPV.

i was able to enter 0000 to unlock the PPV. however, the parental lock for mature audiences wont accept this default code. and it wont allow me to change it without first inputting the corect code.

the 3250Hd in the BR unlocked fine using 0000. the 8300hd in the LR wont.

any ideas?

BTW. for some reason the mature audence lock is on a news channel, thats how i first noticed it.

Ok , i have never used the parental block or a Pin to order PPV so i never set up a number for either of these.

aparently my box defaulted to adult channels blocked and a pin set up for ordering PPV.

i was able to enter 0000 to unlock the PPV. however, the parental lock for mature audiences wont accept this default code. and it wont allow me to change it without first inputting the corect code.

the 3250Hd in the BR unlocked fine using 0000. the 8300hd in the LR wont.

any ideas?

BTW. for some reason the mature audence lock is on a news channel, thats how i first noticed it.
My 8300Hds started doing that some months ago, but 0000 always unlocks them. Try turning parental block off completely.

Try turning parental block off completely.

thats what i was trying to do.

i just went back and checked.
under quick settings - activate parental control -yes-no. yes is checked. if i try changing it to no it ask for a pin. i put in 0000 it says its invalid.

push A to go to more settings parental control- blocking PIN-enabled. if i change to disable it ask for a PIN. i put in 0000 it is invalid.

blocked channels- no entries
blocked ratings NR(adult)

holy crap batman...........:eek:
when i backed out of the settings menu now all the channels are locked. i aint got nuthin' and i cant unlock them. looks like i need to call TWC.

I chatted with an agent online. she had me try 1234. this worked to unlock it.
dont know if somehow someone set it up as 1234 and thats a common PIN and that how she guessed or if thats some kind of master code. but i'm good now.

Thanks again guys, to clarify further, yes the coax coming out of the 8300 upstairs would just go into the coax tuner on the Panny downstairs, I had mentioned the addition of the HD box on the Panny so HD can be watched as well by switching from channel 3 to the HDMI input, I would have both options. This is how the dish system would work as well to get HD on the second TV.

You would need a separate cable (actual cable) connected to the HD box. TW should be able to run the 2nd cable for you since it is an actual cable feed. As someone said, I doubt that they would run the coax out to TV in for you since it is really not part of the "cable system", but why not ask.

I have my cable split at a point just before my 8300HD, one cable goes to the 8300HD, the 2nd goes to the cable input on the Samsung which has a QAM tuner. Occasionally there will be 3 things on we want to watch at the same time. I set the DVR to 2 of them and make sure that the 3rd is a local HD which is not scrambled. Basically I have 3 tuners at work.

Thanks again guys, to clarify further, yes the coax coming out of the 8300 upstairs would just go into the coax tuner on the Panny downstairs, I had mentioned the addition of the HD box on the Panny so HD can be watched as well by switching from channel 3 to the HDMI input, I would have both options. This is how the dish system would work as well to get HD on the second TV.Just out of curiosty, what is the price difference between renting an HD box vs renting another HD DVR? Assuming everything works, it seems like a bit of a hassle to run the coax to the DVR upstairs, buy an RF remote, and rent a second box.

Anyway, as rdgcss said, TWC should run the line for the second box and they may run the other line as well, though there might be a fee for that, especially if they have to snake a line through the walls, etc. It never hurts to ask and see what they can do.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to ask them if they can run that cable downstairs..the main feed is already split, so I have the coax going to my Panny now with the QAM tuner. I also have to call TWC and ask them how much the rental fee is for just an HD box, if another 8300 is only a few bucks more, like DAZ said, it wouldn't even be worth running the coax and picking up the RF remote, although it would be nice to have everything on one DVR, otherwise we have to split up the series recordings on two DVR's...we shall see, I'm going to call TWC today and report back.

I also have to call TWC and ask them how much the rental fee is for just an HD box, .

i dont have the bill in front of me but if i recall corectly my 3250HD box is something like $6.oo per month and $0.25 for the remote. my 8300HD DVR is the same price for the box and remote but they add something like $7.oo for DVR service.

I chatted with an agent online. she had me try 1234. this worked to unlock it.
dont know if somehow someone set it up as 1234 and thats a common PIN and that how she guessed or if thats some kind of master code. but i'm good now.

just to add to this as an FYI for those that may actually use the search function. i also emailed support on this issue about not being able to unlock it using 0000. here's their responce. aparently they missed the part about not having a PIN and 0000 not working.

"Thank you for writing. Please use the steps listed below to make these
changes to your digital receivers. If you can not make these changes,
please reply back with the four digit PIN on your account and we will be
happy to reset this for you.

To Change PIN from Default to your personal Pin choice

* Please note that the default PIN is 0 0 0 0*
* To unblock a movie or show for one time viewing, enter your pin number
to view the channel

1. Press Settings
2. Press the yellow "A" for More Settings
3. Press select on Blocking Pin
4. Scroll down to Change and press select
5. Enter the default pin number which is 0 0 0 0 or your current pin
number
* Enter a new 4 digit pin number of your choice
* Enter the pin number again for confirmation
6. Press the yellow "A" for OK
7. Press Exit Key once completed

To Activate a Parental Block on Individual Channels

1. Press Settings
2. Press the yellow "A" for More Settings
3. Scroll down to Blocked Channels under the Parental Control Heading
* Press select on Blocked Channels
* Press select on each channel you want to block (a lock will appear to
the right of your entry to let you know that the channel has been
blocked)
4. Press the Exit Key once completed

To Activate a Parental Block by Rating

1. Press Settings
2. Press the yellow "A" for More Settings
3. Scroll down to Blocked Ratings under the Parental Control Heading
4. Press Select on the rating that you would like to block (please note
that the rating that you block with also block each rating after it) Ex:
If you block PG-13, Ratings R, NC17 and NR will also be blocked.

To Activate a Parental Block by Time

1. Press Settings
2. Press the yellow "A" for More Settings
3. Press Select for "ON"
4. Set times according to Day, Start and Stop Time

To Activate a Purchasing Pin Number for PPV and MOD Purchases

* Please note that the default pin number is 0 0 0 0 *

1. Press Settings
2. Press the yellow "A" for More Settings
3. Scroll down to Purchasing Section
4. Press select on Purchasing Pin
5. Press select on Enable
* All Pay Per View and Movies on Demand will require your pin number be
entered before a movie or event can be purchased
6. Press the yellow "A" for OK
7. Press the Exit Key once completed

To Change Purchasing Pine Number for PPV and MOD Purchases

* Please note that the default pin number is 0 0 0 0*
* To unblock a movie or show for one time viewing, enter your pin number
to view the channel

1. Press Settings
2. Press the yellow "A" for More Settings
3. Scroll down to Purchasing Section
4. Press select on Purchasing Pin
5. Press select on Change
6. Enter the default pin number which is 0 0 0 0 or your current pin
number
* Enter a new 4 digit pin number of your choice
* Enter the pin number again for confirmation
7. Press the yellow "A" for OK
8. Press Exit Key once completed

just to add to this as an FYI for those that may actually use the search function. i also emailed support on this issue about not being able to unlock it using 0000. here's their responce. aparently they missed the part about not having a PIN and 0000 not working.
My problem was that I turned parental blocking off. SEVERAL TIMES, i.e. it would not STAY OFF.

i dont have the bill in front of me but if i recall corectly my 3250HD box is something like $6.oo per month and $0.25 for the remote. my 8300HD DVR is the same price for the box and remote but they add something like $7.oo for DVR service.

I once argued that I shouldn't be paying $7 for the "DVR service." They are already charging me for the box and the "service" is built into the unit.

It doesn't need really TWC to do anything. It functions the same way as any other Passport box with the exception of it's already installed features.

I've always thought that gray sidebars are the best for avoiding burn-in. As such, I simply ignore them knowing that it's for the good of the display.

I would have thought you'd HATE those gray sidebars, being a serious guy... I found them totally annoying and a HUGE distraction. I have piano black bezels and 95% watch in near darkness so it's just the picture floating out there.

An LCD monitor I just retired (for a much larger one) is close to 5 years old, has been left running for up to 8 hours with static images and not single instance of burn-in, so I think not at all of burn-in.

I DO find it WAY curious that airports buy these very expensive "industrial" LCD monitors that start showing burn-in after a month or so. I'd LOVE to see them stick a "consumer" LCD in there just to see what happens. Then again, those run 24/7/365 and while we all watch way TOO much, it ain't even close to 24/7/365!

Yeah, I'm definitely going to ask them if they can run that cable downstairs..the main feed is already split, so I have the coax going to my Panny now with the QAM tuner. I also have to call TWC and ask them how much the rental fee is for just an HD box, if another 8300 is only a few bucks more, like DAZ said, it wouldn't even be worth running the coax and picking up the RF remote, although it would be nice to have everything on one DVR, otherwise we have to split up the series recordings on two DVR's...we shall see, I'm going to call TWC today and report back.

I quickly came across something indicating another price increase in 02/08 for the STB, I recall 7 and a half bucks, something like that (obviously the non-DVR box)?

I once argued that I shouldn't be paying $7 for the "DVR service." They are already charging me for the box and the "service" is built into the unit.

It doesn't need really TWC to do anything. It functions the same way as any other Passport box with the exception of it's already installed features.

Oh, they double dip like crazy. Up here, we pay $7.40 for a "converter" then 10 bucks on top of that for the DVR service along with the quarter for the remote. Your rates may be different but I'd suspect the same policy applies.

Keep in mind that a DVR and a non DVR box are VERY different in price. I suspect the "DVR service" fee is nothing more than paying for the more expensive box.

I would have thought you'd HATE those gray sidebars, being a serious guy... I found them totally annoying and a HUGE distraction. I have piano black bezels and 95% watch in near darkness so it's just the picture floating out there.
Truth be told, other than CNN and PMSNBC, I watch only 16:9 content. Even Damages and Rescue Me on FX are 16:9 - in a SD 4:3 picture, but I zoom them to fill the screen. How much true 4:3 stuff is being watched these days? And what is it?

An LCD monitor I just retired (for a much larger one) is close to 5 years old, has been left running for up to 8 hours with static images and not single instance of burn-in, so I think not at all of burn-in.Maybe it's not about burning in your television (or mine) but it would have burned in many PDPs and any CRT rear projection set. I don't think that they make the latter any more but there are certainly tons of them still in use.

My problem was that I turned parental blocking off. SEVERAL TIMES, i.e. it would not STAY OFF.

today every time i turned the TV back on it would show everything locked. after unlocking it i went back through the menu. i found a list of channels that had a red unlocked lock symbol beside them. one of the options was to clear the list. i think this will solve the problem. I'll know for sure later.

Keep in mind that a DVR and a non DVR box are VERY different in price. I suspect the "DVR service" fee is nothing more than paying for the more expensive box.

It sounds a lot more palatable on paper to the consumer to say "DVR service only $7 extra" than "Rent a DVR for $16 a month" which is basically what we are doing. Here anyway.

It sounds a lot more palatable on paper to the consumer to say "DVR service only $7 extra" than "Rent a DVR for $16 a month" which is basically what we are doing. Here anyway.
Mine $5.00 box (any converter box or DVR with remote), add'l $10 for DVR Service ($2.50 extra for all boxes beyond first one for "digital" service on other TVs). So first DVR $15, second would be $17.50/mo.
Dan

I would have thought you'd HATE those gray sidebars, being a serious guy... I found them totally annoying and a HUGE distraction. I have piano black bezels and 95% watch in near darkness so it's just the picture floating out there.

An LCD monitor I just retired (for a much larger one) is close to 5 years old, has been left running for up to 8 hours with static images and not single instance of burn-in, so I think not at all of burn-in.

I DO find it WAY curious that airports buy these very expensive "industrial" LCD monitors that start showing burn-in after a month or so. I'd LOVE to see them stick a "consumer" LCD in there just to see what happens. Then again, those run 24/7/365 and while we all watch way TOO much, it ain't even close to 24/7/365!I didn't think digital displays like LCD and DLP suffered burn-in like CRT-based and plasma displays do.

As for the sidebars, I didn't understand the concern about gray either until I turned out the lights and saw how bright they were compared to black. I could then see how very distracting they'd be in a threater-type setting, especially with a 100"+ PJ. :)

I once argued that I shouldn't be paying $7 for the "DVR service." They are already charging me for the box and the "service" is built into the unit.

It doesn't need really TWC to do anything. It functions the same way as any other Passport box with the exception of it's already installed features.Are you saying you won the argument and don't pay any service fee or just don't pay it on a second DVR?

i dont have the bill in front of me but if i recall corectly my 3250HD box is something like $6.oo per month and $0.25 for the remote. my 8300HD DVR is the same price for the box and remote but they add something like $7.oo for DVR service.

Salisbury NC rates:

2nd Digital Convertor box: $7.95

Navigator+ for 2nd TV: $9.71 includes digital terminal, remote, Navigator interactive program guide, Video On Demand access, and 46 Music Choice channels (basically includes box above and guide service)

DVR service: $6.95 requires Navigator+ (if you already have Navigator+, the cable box is replaced with a DVR)

So 2nd DVR would be: 9.71 + 6.95

Are you saying you won the argument and don't pay any service fee or just don't pay it on a second DVR?

that would mean that TWC can reason and we know that doesn't happen!

I pay the same as everyone else. The CS rep kept saying to me "the $6.95 is for the DVR service we provide" every time I kept saying that the service is independent of TWC and they don't have to do anything externally for the box to function as a DVR, and for all intents and purposes is a box like any other and should be covered by the cable box rental fee alone.

And round and around it went.

that would mean that TWC can reason and we know that doesn't happen!

I pay the same as everyone else. The CS rep kept saying to me "the $6.95 is for the DVR service we provide" every time I kept saying that the service is independent of TWC and they don't have to do anything externally for the box to function as a DVR, and for all intents and purposes is a box like any other and should be covered by the cable box rental fee alone.

And round and around it went.Most providers charge you the same box rental fee no matter what the box is that you're using. The truth is that the DVR is a more expensive box and rightly should cost more to rent (though probably not so much more as they want), but they can't bring themselves to ask the $14-$16/month that they want to charge people to rent them, so they split off a big chunk and call it a "service fee". It's just marketing.

I could be wrong, or maybe it's just SARA, but I believe they can give you an 8300 to be used only as an HD tuner. When you try to set a recording, you simply get a message that says recording is not authorized, otherwise it functions just like a 3250. I remember when I got my 8300, I was advised to not only call in the serial number, but to make sure they enabled recording. IIRC, several users in the early days here had to call back to get recording authorized.

FWIW, they charge us $23 here for the box/fee, that's why I don't have 2, so count your blessings if you are paying less.

here they appear to be using different software depending on the box. my 8300 has definitely got passport on it. but my 3250 has what looks like SARA. (i cant verify because i cant get the 3250 to go into diagnostics for some reason).there is a function where you can push the info button to bring up the info bar at the bottom of the screen. on whatever software is on the 3250 i can use the directional arrows to scroll through and view upcoming shows on the channel tuned as well as other channels without bringing up the guide(SARA worked this way when i had it). but on the 8300 bringing up info wont allow me to scroll through with the directional buttons. i have to hit info twice. this shrinks the program to 1/4 size then i can utilize the scrolling function.

Hmmm--I don't think I've ever heard of that. I wouldn't think that SARA and Passport would work with the same headend software.

Hmmm--I don't think I've ever heard of that. I wouldn't think that SARA and Passport would work with the same headend software.I don't think so either, but I believe Passport and Navigator do, so he might have Navigator on the 3250, it looks and functions a lot like SARA.

Passport for non-DVRs is distinctly different in appearance from Passport Echo; less fancy line-art and shadowing (Echo has that curved and slanted bezel around all the main menus that the "normal" Passport doesn't). It's a lot closer in appearance to SARA, with very similar use of color. (Check out the pictures of the vanilla Passport here (http://www.aptivdigital.com/passport/passport.asp) and of Echo here (http://www.aptivdigital.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp). I'd post a couple inline, but they block requests for properties on the images on their pages :rolleyes:).

One way to tell is by the A-B-C button labels at the bottom of the program guide; in Passport they should be "A:Time", "B:Theme" and "C:Title", whereas SARA will "A:Browse By", "B: Date" and "C:<curved backarrow>".

Passport for non-DVRs is distinctly different in appearance from Passport Echo; less fancy line-art and shadowing (Echo has that curved and slanted bezel around all the main menus that the "normal" Passport doesn't). It's a lot closer in appearance to SARA, with very similar use of color.

One way to tell is by the A-B-C button labels at the bottom of the program guide; in Passport they should be "A:Time", "B:Theme" and "C:Title", whereas SARA will "A:Browse By", "B: Date" and "C:<curved backarrow>".That's all good to know. We've looked for different ways to easily tell the 3 software packages apart and this seems the simplest by far. I have images of Passport and SARA in the First Post of the SARA thread for this purpose, but this seems much quicker/easier, just hit the Menu/Guide button. I wonder why no one noticed this earlier? I also wonder what Navigator displays at the bottom? Anyway, thanks for the info.

Well, I couldn't give up on the inline images so easily :).

Passport Echo:

http://www.aptivdigital.com/images/pdt/echoguidetime.jpg

Passport:

http://www.aptivdigital.com/images/pdt/passportipgtime.jpg

SARA (mocked-up w/Acrobat Graphics):

http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/scientific_atlanta_8300hd_sara_ipg.jpg

I actually prefer the Passport one over the Echo one, go figure. :)

I also wonder what Navigator displays at the bottom? Anyway, thanks for the info.Navigator displays "A:Access Menu" and "B:Find Shows", with no label for the "C" button on the guide.

OK, my 3250 has the 2nd picture "passport" my 8300 has the first "passport echo"

so anyone have an explanation why pushing info and browsing using the directional buttons doesn't work on my 8300 but does on the 3250? is this a function they removed in Echo? does it work for you?

Navigator displays "A:Access Menu" and "B:Find Shows", with no label for the "C" button on the guide.Thanks, Mike. I'm going to add that to my post in the SARA thread.

OK, my 3250 has the 2nd picture "passport" my 8300 has the first "passport echo"Good. The thought of a system using a mixture of Passport and SARA was slightly disconcerting :).
so anyone have an explanation why pushing info and browsing using the directional buttons doesn't work on my 8300 but does on the 3250? is this a function they removed in Echo? does it work for you?Probably just a small discrepancy in the two GUIs. Is it very annoying?

FWIW, SARA also allows using the directional buttons to move through the schedule for that channel. I use this feature, but I never thought anything about it. :)

As to why the differences in Passport, perhaps due to memory limitations they simply had to delete some functions in order to add all the DVR functions.

Is it very annoying?

i had became so accustomed to using it when i had SARA. i suppose eventually ill get used to it not being there. probably just in time for the switch to Navigator.

Ugh, the optical port on my 8300HD-DVR is damaged and cutting out audio on my receiver. I'm in Orange County NY, will I receive the 8300HDC if I return this one for a new one? I can get the audio to work right if I plug it in right and not move the box to much, but once it shakes a little, audio cuts and the wife is giving me grief over it. Been holding out on swapping it out because I don't look forward to reprogramming all of my dvr'd shows and the bad reviews the HDC has received.

Can you use the Coax instead?
Or just fix up a jig to hold the cable in-place?

Just exactly how much shaking goes on over there anyway? :)

v/r,
C-F

does anyone know if there is a way to see how much space is left for recording on this unit? the 8300hd. i actually did the sel plus the exit button trick and i didnt see the remaining space left for the hard drive. maybe i missed it..

and mention of the hourglass way back in this thread is now non functional, i think, because i dont see it.

does anyone know if there is a way to see how much space is left for recording on this unit? the 8300hd. i actually did the sel plus the exit button trick and i didnt see the remaining space left for the hard drive. maybe i missed it..

and mention of the hourglass way back in this thread is now non functional, i think, because i dont see it.In the multi-page diagnostics, there's a page marked DVR AVFS (for A/V FileSystem, I think), which talks about the total, used and free space on the drive in 2^30th byte gigabytes (the 160GB quoted as the size of the drive is in 10^9th byte units, or billions of bytes). It also gives the number in clusters, which are some odd number of 512-byte sectors in length.

so anyone have an explanation why pushing info and browsing using the directional buttons doesn't work on my 8300 but does on the 3250? is this a function they removed in Echo? does it work for you?

I've been using Passport Echo so long that I didn't even remember the regular version could do that. It's probably removed on the 8300 because the left and right direction buttons function as incremental position jump buttons along the time bar.

My regular version of Passport on my 2000 box doesn't have the same color scheme as SARA. I've set it to use the indigo ice theme.

and mention of the hourglass way back in this thread is now non functional, i think, because i dont see it.You can see hourglasses in the following image, on 3 of the bottom four entries in the list (the diamond on one of them denotes "Save Until I Delete"):

http://www.aptivdigital.com/images/pdt/echosavedshows.jpg

Are you saying that it's filling up and deleting stuff without these ever showing up? I don't see how that's possible unless you have "Save Until I Delete" set as the default, and then everything would be marked with diamonds and it would just stop recording new things once it filled up.

nope i do not have the hourglass.. i also have the passport echo software.
hmmm wait.. mine doesnt say passport echo like yours does.. maybe i dont have that software.. i am in dayton ohio and all mine says is dvr where yours says passport

nope i do not have the hourglass.. i also have the passport echo software.
hmmm wait.. mine doesnt say passport echo like yours does.. maybe i dont have that software.. i am in dayton ohio and all mine says is dvr where yours says passportWell, it's not "mine"--that's just an illustration from Aptiv Digital's site (the company which makes Passport).

nope i do not have the hourglass.. i also have the passport echo software.

the hourglass will only appear when you are reaching the limit of the hard drive's capacity and it has upcoming shows reserved for recording which may not fit otherwise.

If you delete as you watch then you may never see the hourglass because the box will always think it has plenty of space available.

The hourglass lies though. It bases the remaining days until deletion on your upcoming scheduled recordings. If you decide that you want to record something instantly and you are approaching capacity it screws up the system and just deletes anything it needs for space immediately.

nope i do not have the hourglass.. i also have the passport echo software.
hmmm wait.. mine doesnt say passport echo like yours does.. maybe i dont have that software.. i am in dayton ohio and all mine says is dvr where yours says passportI'm looking at TWC Dayton's site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/dayton/). They avoid showing pictures of the DVR UI like the plague, but I found "DVR Dave's Advanced Guide (http://www.twcusoon.com/dvrdave/cheatsheets_SA/TWC_advanced_user_guide.pdf)", which is just a Scientific Atlanta guide for SARA. (I also noticed that they advertise "Caller ID on TV", which is not a feature of Passport Echo). I think that you're not getting hourglasses because your system is using SARA.

Check out the "SA 8300 HD Tips & Tricks -- SARA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052)" thread.

EDIT: On further examination, they have this bizarre "DVR Dancer (http://www.timewarnercable.com/dayton/products/cable/DVR/SA/dvr-dancer.html)" interactive demo, featuring an obnoxious fat guy dancing on a DVR remote to extremely annoying music :rolleyes:. When I tried one of the demos, the image that showed up in the inset when I clicked the GUIDE button was of the Digital Navigator guide, so that may well be what you're using.

the hourglass will only appear when you are reaching the limit of the hard drive's capacity and it has upcoming shows reserved for recording which may not fit otherwise.

If you delete as you watch then you may never see the hourglass because the box will always think it has plenty of space available.

The hourglass lies though. It bases the remaining days until deletion on your upcoming scheduled recordings. If you decide that you want to record something instantly and you are approaching capacity it screws up the system and just deletes anything it needs for space immediately.

ahhh that explains it.. i only have like 7 movies recorded. since i do not have a space meter like directv does or tivo.. can someone give me a rough estimate on how many sd 2 hour movies this can hold and how many hd 2 hour movies this might hold.. just a rough estimate is fine.
thanks for all the replies
steve

just checked it and i have passport echo 2.6.006 software..
and i did just find the amount of space left in the info screens.. but that kinda sucks having to do that everytime i want to see how much is left.. but guess i have deal with the generics of timewarner.. :)

The hourglass lies though. It bases the remaining days until deletion on your upcoming scheduled recordings. If you decide that you want to record something instantly and you are approaching capacity it screws up the system and just deletes anything it needs for space immediately.And how is that "lying"? The hourglasses are current estimates, not guarantees. It estimates how long it can hang onto the recording based on the information that it currently has about what you plan to record in the future; if you add or delete future recordings it will change that estimate. If you dynamically decide to make a recording of a scheduled four hour sports event on an HD channel right now, that will invalidate it's estimates and it will do what it has to do to make space.

and i did just find the amount of space left in the info screens.. but that kinda sucks having to do that everytime i want to see how much is left.. but guess i have deal with the generics of timewarner.. :)Not that it helps, but with SARA you just hit LIST-B to get the gas guage. (Sorry, couldn't resist) :)

Anyway, a 160G HDD will hold approximately 20 hours of HD recordings, 90 hours of SD recordings, or any combination of the 2. The average hour of HD uses about 8G and SD uses less than 2G. Of course, this all varies for any given broadcast and if you are close to full, it's all but impossible to determine if another recording will fit. The auto-delete features error on the conservative side, as expected. The only time I even look at the gauge is when questions like this come up or I'm going to be gone for a few days and there is something important I want to catch. Otherwise, I pretty much watch what I record within days, so space is rarely a concern. :)

And how is that "lying"? The hourglasses are current estimates, not guarantees.

I wasn't being serious. I was basically saying don't trust what you see because anything you do could alter it.

And how is that "lying"?Lie was probably a poor choice of words, but it would seem more prudent for the system to simply reduce the estimate based on the immediate recording than to delete something already recorded based on a future scheduled recording to make room for the immediate recording (assuming that is what the OP meant it does). Is that what Passport does?

If I have 10 hours of space left and I have 9 hours scheduled, will it actually delete something if I immediately record a 2 hour movie? Even though the scheduled recordings are days in the future? Or does it do the recording and simply reduce the estimate by 2 hours and start deleting once it gets closer to full?

just checked it and i have passport echo 2.6.006 software..
and i did just find the amount of space left in the info screens.. but that kinda sucks having to do that everytime i want to see how much is left.. but guess i have deal with the generics of timewarner.. :)Man, TWC Dayton is confused about what it's using. I find evidence that they're using SARA and evidence that they're using Navigator but not a hint of Passport. I will accept your testimony that you're using Passport, though.

Estimating capacity is difficult because bit rates of digital television vary wildly from an average of about 13 Mbps on some channels (Fox HD used to be a bit less) to 18.5 Mbps on other channels (typical for HDNet, ESPN HD and a few others). SD digital cable can run from about 2 to 5 Mbps (I forget how much space it uses for DVR-digitized-analog cable--it might be as high as 5 Mbps). Given about 140 billion-bytes free on an empty DVR (it uses a couple of billion-bytes for the system and a little over 17 billion-bytes reserved for the two one-hour trick-play buffers) you'll get 19.44 hours of HD broadcast at a middle-of-the-road 16 Mbps. (140 billion-bytes * 8000 million-bits-per-billion-bytes = 1,120,000 million-bits / 16 million-bit-per-second = 70,000 seconds / 3600 seconds-per-hour = 19.44 hours). Using an average 3 Mbps for SD material, you should get 103 hours worth of that.

So let's make that a thumbnail estimate of 8-10 2-hour movies in HD or about 50 SD movies.

Lie was probably a poor choice of words, but it would seem more prudent for the system to simply reduce the estimate based on the immediate recording than to delete something already recorded based on a future scheduled recording to make room for the immediate recording (assuming that is what the OP meant it does). Is that what Passport does?

If I have 10 hours of space left and I have 9 hours scheduled, will it actually delete something if I immediately record a 2 hour movie? Even though the scheduled recordings are days in the future? Or does it do the recording and simply reduce the estimate by 2 hours and start deleting once it gets closer to full?It won't delete anything unless it needs the space. If it's got 10 hours worth of space left and it's estimating that that will get used up within 3 days and the last recording currently in the list will have to be deleted then, it will place an hourglass on it. If you make an immediate four hour recording into that 10 hours worth of space, it will re-estimate the lifetime of the recordings at the bottom of the list (typically the oldest recordings, but you can change the order at will); it may change the type of hourglass on the one that had an hourglass and add hourglasses to others, indicating that they'll now have to go soon.

In the scenario that VisionOn was talking about, if there were hourglasses on some of his recordings and he pressed REC to make an immediate 4 hour recording, it deleted stuff because there was less than 4 hours free space left.

One of my biggest problems with SARA is that there was no "Keep Until Space Needed", just various numbers of days to keep a recording and "Keep Until I Delete". As a recording nears death, you can give it more life (if I recall correctly), but if you don't touch it, it will always eventually be deleted, though there is no demand for the space. Passport only has "Keep Until Space Needed" and "Keep Until I Delete" and if you watch and delete things, other things that you're not getting around to (that depressing movie that everyone loved that you're never in the mood for :)) will hang around forever.

In the scenario that VisionOn was talking about, if there were hourglasses on some of his recordings and he pressed REC to make an immediate 4 hour recording, it deleted stuff because there was less than 4 hours free space left.

I've found it will erase more than it needs to instantly. Even if future recordings are days away and you have just enough space available for the show you decide to instantly record, it will erase data to fit the show you are recording spontaneously and then some. Maybe it thinks that the show is going to overrun and you might need to adjust.

I can't remember how it adjusts for upcoming recordings. Logically it should wait until the next schedule recording is about to start before erasing but I think it just does it automatically at midnight. Hence the day count with the hourglass.

I'd prefer it if it didn't erase anything as it approaches full. Even with the manual "save until I delete" setting. I'd rather get a warning before the next recording is about to start giving me the option to let it erase old content or not record, with a user preference to automatically tell it what to do if no input is given.

If it's about to make a 3 hour recording and the things at the bottom of the list are 2 hour recordings, it's gonna have to delete 4 hours worth of stuff to make space, since it can only delete from the bottom of the list and it can only delete whole recordings.

I encountered this a few months ago. I was about to make a two hour HD recording and had about 6GB left and new recordings not scheduled until two days later. What it actually did was delete 4 or 5 episodes of Mad Men instantly to compensate. That surprised me because I didn't expect it to reap such a huge chunk of my recordings for something I was going to watch later that night and already had space available for.

Check that deletion behavior, would you? I recall it waiting until recording time to delete things; deleting at midnight of the day would be obnoxious, depriving me of many, many hours in which to watch the endangered recordings (or cancel an upcoming one).

Given the current state of television it's a bit tricky to check that now. This is the first time all year that it's had more than half capacity free and it's getting larger every week!

From what I remember it deletes them at some point during the night, because whenever it does I always think to myself that it never allows for the viewer to watch and delete before the show is scheduled.

I've found it will erase more than it needs to instantly. Even if future recordings are days away and you have just enough space available for the show you decide to instantly record, it will erase data to fit the show you are recording spontaneously and then some. Maybe it thinks that the show is going to overrun and you might need to adjust.

I can't remember how it adjusts for upcoming recordings. Logically it should wait until the next schedule recording is about to start before erasing but I think it just does it automatically at midnight. Hence the day count with the hourglass.

I'd prefer it if it didn't erase anything as it approaches full. Even with the manual "save until I delete" setting. I'd rather get a warning before the next recording is about to start giving me the option to let it erase old content or not record, with a user preference to automatically tell it what to do if no input is given.If it's about to make a 3 hour recording and the things at the bottom of the list are 2 hour recordings, it's gonna have to delete 4 hours worth of stuff to make space, since it can only delete from the bottom of the list and it can only delete whole recordings. I have no problem with Passport's scheme--you told it to make a recording and if there's not enough space for it, it's gotta do something. It's either gotta delete something or not make the new recording, and if you want the latter behavior, you can set the default to "Keep Until I Delete" and it'll stop recording once the box fills up until you get around to watching and deleting stuff. Asking permission to delete at recording time seems unlikely to be useful for many people.

Check that deletion behavior, would you? I recall it waiting until recording time to delete things; deleting at midnight of the day would be obnoxious, depriving me of up to 23 hours in which to watch the endangered recordings (or cancel an upcoming one). Also, it sometimes says "less than a day" besides the hourglass.
is that based on the 160GB spec or the real world recording capacity of about 147GB?I based it on about 140 billion-bytes (and I say billion-bytes to distinguish it from 2-to-the-30th byte GB as quoted in the diagnostics). If it's actually 147 billion-bytes after the space reserved for the RTOS and the trick-play buffers, then that'd be 20.41 hours of 16 Mbps HD content and 108.88 hours of 3 Mbps SD content.

Not that it helps, but with SARA you just hit LIST-B to get the gas guage. (Sorry, couldn't resist) :)

:)


i really, really miss that green drive space bar:mad:

i really, really miss that green drive space bar:mad:Personally, I think it's a bit like a tachometer on the dashboard of automatic--kinda useless in this age of digital television which varies in bit rate from channel to channel. 20% free could mean a few hours of HDNet or 20 hours of the SD Learning Channel--most people have no idea. More useful would be two bars with rough estimates of remaining hours of HD and SD based on rates that would give you 20 hours of the first and 100 hours of the second. However meaningful or not, many people find it comforting, it's simple to implement and doesn't hurt anything.

Two years back, Aptiv Digital announced the availability of Version 2.7 of Passport Echo that had a disk usage indicator in the GUI (here (http://www.aptivdigital.com/presscenter/pressreleasesdetail.asp?index=4)):
DVR Saved Shows List has expanded informational and usability features. One new option, "View Disk Info," displays a summary of DVR disk space usage (like a gas gauge) including the amount of hours of "Estimated Free Space", "Saved Until Manually Erased", "Automatically Erased as Needed" content.To date, I haven't heard anyone anywhere say that their cable provider has choosen to roll Passport Echo 2.7 out to their users.

EDIT: I just googled "passport-echo 2.7" and found a few online discussions where people got it on their systems. Unfortunately, TWC was Aptiv Digital's biggest customer for Passport Echo and they're headed towards ubiquitous deployment of their Digital Navigator IPG and probably have suspended any upgrades for Passport.

Personally, I think it's a bit like a tachometer on the dashboard of automatic--.

i use the tach on my automatics too. improves gas mileage. the lower the RPM's the less gas being used. take off from a stop and turn no more than 2k, drive 55 at 2k. saves alot of fuel when compared to jack rabbit starts turning 6k and 70mph at 3k rpm.

And how is it that you control the RPMs without a clutch and stick? On the infrequent occasions when I drive an auto (generally a rental on a trip), I'm screaming at the thing to upshift or downshift :).

^^
dont press the gas petal down as far. all the cars i have are alittle different as far as what speed equals what rpm. but in general. 50mph = 1800, 55mph = 2k rpm. and 70 = 3k.
baby the petal from a stop and it might take longer to get up to the desired speed but you'll turn less rpm's and use less fuel. it takes more fuel to turn more rpm's.

I've driven sticks all my life and I'm fully aware of the effect of engine speed on gas mileage, but I've driven rentals that I violently disagreed with. We're going downhill at 40 mph and it wants to do it at 3K revs whereas I'd upshift and do it at 2K. You have no direct control--you hold the pedal down where you have to to get the speed that you want to go at and it chooses the gear that it thinks is appropriate. It's bad enough listening to the engine labor more than it needs to--having a tach just pisses me off and only a small percentage of people in this country knows what it means anyway. Just as percentage free space on a DVR doesn't have any specific meaning for digital television :rolleyes:.

In any case, we're way the hell off topic :).

In any case, we're off topic.
+1
Lol

i have never encountered any of the issues you describe with automatics.

however i totally agree that we are way off topic. and its my fault. we could move this to the chevy truck forum or the saturn forum or the ford explorer forum if you'd like.:D

percentage free space on a DVR may not have any specific meaning for digital television. but it sure is comforting to see a bar that is 10% full and know that you pretty much have plenty of space for whatever recordings you may want to make that day. or seeing that it says 80% full you know that you probably need to delete something if you plan on getting the lord of the rings trilogy. sorry to go back to the car analogy but i equate it to my '57chevy that the speedometer nor the gas gauge works. i use the tach to judge speed. and i know form experience with it approximately how far i can drive before i run out of gas. are either of these methods acurate...NO. but its close enough that i feel comfortable making decisions based on it.
i suppose just as you are accustomed to not having the % bar and driving manuals. i am just as accustomed to having the % bar and driving autos. amazing thing about humans though ...we are very flexible when it comes to change although we may not like it, in the end we are capable of adapting.

FWIW, they charge us $23 here for the box/fee, that's why I don't have 2, so count your blessings if you are paying less.

Find it hard to believe you pay so much MORE than I do in NYC, where TWC rips it's customers off BIG TIME. Unless I'm figuring it wrong... we've got the "converter" fee of 7 and a half bucks (non-recording tuner; this is a very simple device and should NOT rent for more than 2 bucks max) plus the 10 bucks for "DVR service." Aside from a quarter for the remote, I THINK this is what we pay!

Are you calculating the basic box fee plus DVR fee?

does anyone know if there is a way to see how much space is left for recording on this unit? the 8300hd. i actually did the sel plus the exit button trick and i didnt see the remaining space left for the hard drive. maybe i missed it..

and mention of the hourglass way back in this thread is now non functional, i think, because i dont see it.

I have found the "hourglass" indicators to be fairly accurate. They show up when my oldest recorded show has about 2 days left. I have a LOT of series recordings set, many for shows that I will probably watch live, so I see them pop up. Generally, I turn OFF recordings I'll watch live and the hourglasses go away.

Are you calculating the basic box fee plus DVR fee?Absolutely, $18 for the box and $5.00 for the service. Where I come from, that's $23. And, contrary to what michaelscott thinks, it's worth every penny. :)

You may consider TWC ripping you off, but no one does it better than Cox here in Phoenix. I believe we pay the highest DVR fees of anyone. But, one has to consider the whole bill, not just individual parts of it, when making comparisons. Even then, you have to consider internet speeds, free long-distance minutes, etc., for phone, and even the bundle discount.

And, contrary to what michaelscott thinks, it's worth every penny. :)I might accept an 8300HD running SARA if they gave me all my cable service for free and paid me a small cash stipend. I wouldn't use it, mind you, but under those conditions I'd suffer it to be stored in my home, so long as it were somewhere out of sight :D.

I might accept an 8300HD running SARA if they gave me all my cable service for free and paid me a small cash stipend. I wouldn't use it, mind you, but under those conditions I'd suffer it to be stored in my home, so long as it were somewhere out of sight :D.In spite of the Smiley, you probably mean it. You'd probably do without a DVR if SARA were the only option available and that is the real shame. It seems a tad unhealthy to have so much contempt for a piece of software simply because you couldn't figure it out. Maybe it's all that California sun and sea air rotting your brain or something. :) :D :)

Edit: It's a slow night, otherwise I wouldn't continue this OT comedy. :)

Can you use the Coax instead?
Or just fix up a jig to hold the cable in-place?

Just exactly how much shaking goes on over there anyway? :)

v/r,
C-F

My daughter walks and crawls everywhere, even if she just brushes up against the stb, audio cuts out. Especially when I'm changing the the channel on my toslink switch, highly annoying!

^^^
duct tape fixes everything..preferably on the toslink cable...but it'll work on the kid too.:D your choice

Absolutely, $18 for the box and $5.00 for the service. Where I come from, that's $23. And, contrary to what michaelscott thinks, it's worth every penny. :)

You may consider TWC ripping you off, but no one does it better than Cox here in Phoenix. I believe we pay the highest DVR fees of anyone. But, one has to consider the whole bill, not just individual parts of it, when making comparisons. Even then, you have to consider internet speeds, free long-distance minutes, etc., for phone, and even the bundle discount.

Wow, I'm flabbergasted. 18 bucks for the standard cable STB, that IS a rip. One could say that the non DVR folks in beautiful Phoenix (no backhanded slam, I think Arizona is a good place overall) are heavily subsidizing the DVR owners, couldn't you as well?

In spite of the Smiley, you probably mean it. You'd probably do without a DVR if SARA were the only option available and that is the real shame.

Pretty sure Mike was a Passport guy, then got SARA and judged SARA be a fair bit less functional than passport. Seems he might be one of the few to have spent a lot of time with both...

Wow, I'm flabbergasted. 18 bucks for the standard cable STB, that IS a rip. One could say that the non DVR folks in beautiful Phoenix (no backhanded slam, I think Arizona is a good place overall) are heavily subsidizing the DVR owners, couldn't you as well?

Something is amiss somewhere. One of the very few benefits about TWC Raleigh is that the DVR price is much lower than other markets.

$7.64 for the box and $7.95 for the "service."

I remember when the box and service together came in under $13.

Pretty sure Mike was a Passport guy, then got SARA and judged SARA be a fair bit less functional than passport. Seems he might be one of the few to have spent a lot of time with both...Prior to Passport, I'd used TiVo "Series1" for years. The HD Passport Echo DVR was the first HD DVR that I leased from a cable provider.

My problem with SARA is not really how truly wretched that it is, it's that the cable company probably knows how bad it is and that they don't care. They could offer something better as standard fare, but it would probably cost them more on which they'd profit less, and why should they, because you have no price competitive choice, anyway. I find the use of SARA to be a slap-in-the-face insult by my cable company and one to which I don't choose to reply "Thank you sir, can I have another?"

My problem with SARA is not really how truly wretched that it is, it's that the cable company probably knows how bad it is and that they don't care. They could offer something better as standard fare, but it would probably cost them more on which they'd profit less, and why should they, because you have no price competitive choice, anyway."

I think you've just summed Time Warner Navigator exactly there as well.

It looks like you escaped one situation to head into another that's the same.

Prior to Passport, I'd used TiVo "Series1" for years. The HD Passport Echo DVR was the first HD DVR that I leased from a cable provider.

My problem with SARA is not really how truly wretched that it is, it's that the cable company probably knows how bad it is and that they don't care. They could offer something better as standard fare, but it would probably cost them more on which they'd profit less, and why should they, because you have no price competitive choice, anyway. I find the use of SARA to be a slap-in-the-face insult by my cable company and one to which I don't choose to reply "Thank you sir, can I have another?"Though I don't have any major problems with SARA, I certainly agree with your statements. I've always said there was better stuff out there, but the cableco's were too cheap to offer it. I still think there might be a legacy issue too.

But to be totally honest, it didn't take you very long to purchase your Tivo HD. Admittedly, you saw that SARA was just going to bug the h*ll out of you after using Passport and Tivo, so you made a "quick" decison that works for you. Tivo can only wish everyone with SARA had those hangups, they'd be fat, dumb, and happy. Trouble is, from where I sit, it's just giving more money to another company, not one of my favorite things to do, unless there is an over-riding need, and SARA vs Tivo just isn't it for me.

The other thing that bugs me about this whole issue is that I don't see any advertising by Tivo. It seems like this is their opportunity to make a name in the cable community and I don't see them taking advantage of it. But, maybe once they get their OCAP unit with SDV support out, it will be a different story. Hopefully, the USB SDV option is just a kludge for current models and not a long term solution. I don't read the Tivo forums and this is a Passport thread, so I'll return this thread to it's original intent. :)

Well an update on my poor man's multi room with the 8300HD...

I called Crime Warner yesterday and they said on top of the $15 I'm paying now for the 8300, it would be another $17.50 for a second one!!?? Are they kidding? More than the first one!? Uh, no thanks...

So, they will not run any coax for me, and I was just talking to my buddy today who was an electrician for 25 years, and he said there is no way to run coax from my upstairs to my downstairs if the coax is just sitting in the wall and not trough a conduit, which is how it is.

So basically CWC has me by the b@lls just like everyone else here, and I'd have to get a 2nd DVR for downstairs.

Or does anyone know of a device that will wirelessly send my TV signal downstairs?? That would work too...thanks.

Time Warner NYC Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD box Firmware/Software Differences? Much finer details on "Guide/Info" pages on a friend's box (plus he has a much nicer remote), versus a much more "old fashioned" looking Guide/Info on mine.
_________________

Gentlemen/Ladies:

I use a Time Warner Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD "box" DVR/cable box combination. i've had it for many months - hard to remember because when one unit freezes up too much or is acting up, I run up to 23rd Street Time Warner's office, stand in line, and had to do an exchange for another box.

My tv is a Sony SXRD XBR1.

When I was at a friend's place a couple of weeks ago, he just got a new Samsung plasma and went to Time Warner to get the same dvr. Oddly, the "Guide" information that shows up on his screen is FAR BETTER and FAR CLEARER and more detailed than mine! i thought it was a matter of Time Warner downloading firmware upgrades to various users over time, and that i might be "next in line" and they might do it late at night, like around 3am or so. After a few weeks, still nothing. Why is it that his cable channel guide/information is SO much better/nicer than mine?

This is a question that the telephone people at Time Warner could not answer as they only care about "no picture" or things like that.

Thank you in advance and hope to hear some good advice from you all. I hope that I don't have to unplug everything and take the box to be exchanged at 23rd Street Time Warner yet again! Oh, one more thing, his remote that he got from Time Warner with his DVR is far newer than mine: it looks spiffier and just generall more fancy. I'm hoping that all this extra info will help give you guys clues as to why my "Guide" pages are so antiquated looking!

Thx!

I was just talking to my buddy today who was an electrician for 25 years, and he said there is no way to run coax from my upstairs to my downstairs if the coax is just sitting in the wall and not trough a conduit, which is how it is.
I don't know if it's possible in your house, but "ground" floor rooms can usually be reached from the basement, and "upstairs" rooms can generally be reached from the attic. So if you have a way to run wiring from basement to attic, you can make the run. My house had an electrical/mechanical chase that allowed me to run wiring (CAT6).

Or does anyone know of a device that will wirelessly send my TV signal downstairs?? That would work too...thanks.I believe that there are several products on the market which will do this. The following is one of them (click the image for details):

http://www.audiovox.com/images/products_large/LF30_y.jpg (http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14138&langId=-1)

According to PriceGrabber (here (http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/antennas/m/2267833/search=Terk+LF-30S+Wireless+/sort_type=bottomline)), it can be delivered to my zip for as little as $69.

When I was at a friend's place a couple of weeks ago, he just got a new Samsung plasma and went to Time Warner to get the same dvr. Oddly, the "Guide" information that shows up on his screen is FAR BETTER and FAR CLEARER and more detailed than mine! i thought it was a matter of Time Warner downloading firmware upgrades to various users over time, and that i might be "next in line" and they might do it late at night, like around 3am or so. After a few weeks, still nothing. Why is it that his cable channel guide/information is SO much better/nicer than mine?Does his guide and remote look like the stuff in this (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/50/Content%20Management/Products%20And%20Services/documents/TheNewGuide-QuickTips_web.pdf) document while your guide matches one of the ones pictured in my post above (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12440589&postcount=7039) (particularly the last one)? If so, he's probably been given a newer version of the DVR (the Explorer 8300HDC, which requires a Multi-Stream CableCARD to operate) and his box is running TWC's new Digital Navigator software, which was developed in-house. Your older box is probably running either Passport Echo or SARA. If this is the case, don't be too envious--Digital Navigator was so buggy when it rolled out in broad trials that Lincoln, NE held city meetings to determine whether their forcing it on their subs was cause to oust TWC as their provider. I sense that it has gotten a lot better since then, though; I'm not hearing any grumbling about it in forums in recent months.

Locally, TWC San Diego has been rolling out Navigator very slowly, starting with the new HDC-model STBs. (FCC regulations forbid them to continue to buy STBs for lease which use built-in conditional access methods; they're required to use CableCARDs or some other form of FCC approved separable security in the products that they lease, as of 1 July this year. This is an effort to improve their support of CableCARD). As soon as they iron out any huge problems with these new boxes, they plan to push the new software into the existing boxes.

After I posted, I poked around the net' and ended up at x10.com for the wireless av transmitter. I put an order in, only $49.99 shipped, 30 day money back guarantee, so nothing to lose. Thanks peeps.

Dear Sir (I suppose it should be Dear Michael?):

Thank you for your very precise and helpful response to my question re: Time Warner software for my 8300 box.

you're correct on all accounts, except i have one question: it is highly unlikely that my friend has purchased any type of cable card. He purchased a new LCD (Samsung, oops, i think i might have originally said he purchased a plasma) and a new dvd player and i'm virtually 100% certain that he did not spend more money on any accessories like a cable card.

unless the "cable card" required, as you said, is included in the Samsung box? i doubt that.

may i ask how he would have it working/operating then?

your last comment was that once they are satisfied, they will "push' the software upgrade to more users.

does that really mean that i don't have to exchange my box? are there any advantages, however small, to actually getting a new box? maybe not today, but over time, say in another 2 weeks or another 2 months, would there be any advantages? i see little advantage to drag myself over there to their office and stand in line to exchange my remote for their new remote, as i very infrequently use their remote to begin with (i used a universal) UNLESS the new remote has useful/convenient features that i cannot get/or do easily with my current, older remote.

thank you very much indeed in advance. trust me, if i were to call Time Warner NYC, they are rude and know virtually nothing and basically would either hang up on me or tell me to go stand in line for a new model. they (the telephone employees) really do not care whatsoever.

Quick question....

Since my 8300HD optical audio is defective, and I don't want the 8300HDC and on top of that have to reprogram all of my dvr'd shows..........if I were to connect the 8300HD to my receiver via regular rca stereo audio cables, is it safe to assume that the 8300HD will only send the stereo signal over RCA and not dolby digital? I know the obvious answer is No, but I'm hoping someone proves me wrong lol! I need dolby digital for my HD viewing. Worst comes to worse, I'll swap it out get the 8300HDC, though I really REALLY don't wanna :-(

^^^
duct tape fixes everything..preferably on the toslink cable...but it'll work on the kid too.:D your choice


LMAO! So true and not a bad idea :D

You can call me "Mike" (it's in my signature, so per common forum etiquette I've invited people to do that) and Michael is fine as well--many people just use the usernames (mine is "michaeltscott")--but ya' doesn't hafta call me "sir". We're generally not very formal in these forums.

People don't buy CableCARDs. Many commercial televisions and set-top boxes (DVRs and such) have one or more CableCARD slots in them. You lease the cards for use in your equipment from your cable provider like you lease their STBs, generally for a fraction of the price. TWC locally charges $1.75/month each for CableCARDs whereas they want $8/month for any STB and an additional $10/month for "DVR Service", if you lease a DVR :rolleyes:.

CableCARDs allow people to tune digital subscription and premium channels ("subscription" like TNT, A&E and Discover and "premium" like HBO and Showtime) with the built-in tuners in the equipment that they own, without the need to lease a cable box from their service provider. I myself own and use a TiVo Series3 HD DVR and lease two single-stream CableCARDs, one for each of its two internal tuners (some equipment can use the new Multi-Stream card, which can handle 2 or more tuners). My television, a Mitsubishi LCD panel, also has a CableCARD slot, though I don't lease a card for it. Without a card, my television could be used to tune the digital channels that my system carries in the clear (basically just the rebroadcast over-the-air DTV channels), but not the subscription and premium services that I pay for (things like ESPN HD, Discovery HD, TNT HD and HBO HD).

In the case of these new "HDC" model Explorer 8300's, the CableCARD comes included in the lease price for the box, since the box won't do much of anything without one. The cable industry has been required by the FCC to support CableCARDs since mid-2005; they've never liked this requirement, partially because customers using CableCARD equipment can't easily order their lucrative Impulse Pay-Per-View services or use Video On Demand services at all. Initial support for CableCARDs was understandably poor, but due to their lack of enthusiasm, the cable providers' support for them hasn't improved much in two years. The FCC is prohibiting them from buying new equipment for lease which doesn't use CableCARDs (or some future approved separable security tech), in an effort to force them to become better at supporting the technology. This may or may not work, but it probably won't hurt :).

As for Navigator, rolling it out across their entire system is not going to be fun. They're going to field a billion calls from confused subscribers complaining that the software on their boxes changed, even if the new stuff is bug-free; some of the older digital boxes in the field will have to be swapped out because they don't have the memory or processor resources to run the new guide. It's gonna be a mess, and I'm sure that they're just taking their time to prepare themselves for it. They plan to start using a new technology for optimizing their bandwidth which will allow them to support a boatload of new HD channels (called Switched Digital Video or SDV); this technology won't work with the old guide software (or, incidentally, with most user-owned CableCARD devices), so there is some additional incentive to "take the plunge".

I doubt that the pretty new remotes do anything that the old ones don't. If anything, they might have +/- DAY buttons for paging through the guide, but there are ways to page through the guide by days without DAY buttons (DIGIT, quickly followed by RIGHT-ARROW or LEFT-ARROW where "DIGIT" is 1-9, being the number of days you want to page forward or back--see the Passport Tips and Tricks (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722) post in this thread for more fun facts to know and tell :)).

Quick question....

Since my 8300HD optical audio is defective, and I don't want the 8300HDC and on top of that have to reprogram all of my dvr'd shows..........if I were to connect the 8300HD to my receiver via regular rca stereo audio cables, is it safe to assume that the 8300HD will only send the stereo signal over RCA and not dolby digital?
It will not send DD over analog audio, but the "stereo" signal it will send can be decoded by Dolby Pro Logic (DPL). Of course, not being digital, noticeable audio quality will be lost. What about the coaxial digital output? FYI, there are relatively inexpensive "boxes" that will convert coaxial to optical (and vice versa).

It will not send DD over analog audio, but the "stereo" signal it will send can be decoded by Dolby Pro Logic (DPL). Of course, not being digital, noticeable audio quality will be lost. What about the coaxial digital output? FYI, there are relatively inexpensive "boxes" that will convert coaxial to optical (and vice versa).
Thanks for the reply and that's a good idea! I should check monoprice.com for a converter. My receiver can decode to Pro Logic.....on SD channels, I can't hear the difference, but on the HD channels, it's very apparent. Thanks for the tip!

[QUOTE=slickshoes;12479486]Well an update on my poor man's multi room with the 8300HD...

I called Crime Warner yesterday and they said on top of the $15 I'm paying now for the 8300, it would be another $17.50 for a second one!!?? Are they kidding? More than the first one!? Uh, no thanks...

QUOTE]
Like my TWC they add $2.50 for each TV after the first for "digital service" (i.e., if it has a box). So each add'l DVR or non-DVR box after the first ends up $2.50 more.
/Dan

You can call me "Mike" ...

People don't buy CableCARDs...

CableCARDs allow people to ...

In the case of these new "HDC" model Explorer 8300's, the CableCARD comes included in the lease price for the box, since the box won't do much of anything without one...

As for Navigator, rolling it out across their entire system is not going to be fun. They're going to field a billion calls from confused subscribers complaining that the software on their boxes changed, even if the new stuff is bug-free; some of the older digital boxes in the field will have to be swapped out because they don't have the memory or processor resources to run the new guide. It's gonna be a mess, and I'm sure that they're just taking their time to prepare themselves for it. They plan to start using a new technology for optimizing their bandwidth which will allow them to support a boatload of new HD channels (called Switched Digital Video or SDV); this technology won't work with the old guide software (or, incidentally, with most user-owned CableCARD devices), so there is some additional incentive to "take the plunge".
...

Hi Mike:

Thanks again for your clear and detailed explanation.

Noting the above from your "state of the cable industry 'address'" ;) i sort of see a recommendation for me to take my older 8300 in to Time Warner and exchange it for the newer 8300. Of course, it is not easy to be certain that they will have the "newer" 8300 on hand AT THAT 23rd Street Time Warner location! It would be a massive hassle to unplug everything, go there, stand in line, and be told: no, we don't have any of this new model...and then come home, reconnect everything, and do that again and again till i'm fortunate enough to get to that Time Warner location when they DO have that particular model in stock! right? on the other hand, i should be "all set" for a while if i did that, not having to worry about the "rush" of a large number of people who will soon discover that there is a newer model out there and rush to Time Warner to exchange their box/DVR.

May I ask in your expert opinion, would it be wise for me to exchange it now? Are there downsides? Or only upsides?

thank you very much.

Like my TWC they add $2.50 for each TV after the first for "digital service" (i.e., if it has a box). So each add'l DVR or non-DVR box after the first ends up $2.50 more.
You are aware, aren't you, that additional digital cable boxes requires that additional 0's and 1's be sent to your house? And those additional 0's and 1's don't grow on trees.

;):rolleyes::D

Hi Mike:

Thanks again for your clear and detailed explanation.

Noting the above from your "state of the cable industry 'address'" ;) i sort of see a recommendation for me to take my older 8300 in to Time Warner and exchange it for the newer 8300. Of course, it is not easy to be certain that they will have the "newer" 8300 on hand AT THAT 23rd Street Time Warner location! It would be a massive hassle to unplug everything, go there, stand in line, and be told: no, we don't have any of this new model...and then come home, reconnect everything, and do that again and again till i'm fortunate enough to get to that Time Warner location when they DO have that particular model in stock! right? on the other hand, i should be "all set" for a while if i did that, not having to worry about the "rush" of a large number of people who will soon discover that there is a newer model out there and rush to Time Warner to exchange their box/DVR.

May I ask in your expert opinion, would it be wise for me to exchange it now? Are there downsides? Or only upsides?

thank you very much.I'm sorry--I should have stated it explicitly. I don't particularly recommend that you trade in your cable STB. If you're seriously thinking about it, I'd spend as much time as possible at your friend's house that has the new box playing with the Digital Navigator IPG to see how you feel about it; things work somewhat differently on it. Take your current box's remote over there and compare the two. Question him about how many problems he's had with it--as I said, when it first appeared about a year ago it was a nightmare. You're going to get it on your box sooner or later anyway, whether you upgrade now or not.

Just tried to call Time Warner. 5 calls later and being yelled at by various difficult and downright mean customer service agents with attitudes, they told me to go repeatedly to the 23rd Street location and just see if they have the newer 8300HDC box. if they don't, go home and just go back another day.

oh, btw, they didn't know what the 8300HDC box is for about 30 minutes of the conversation, telling me it's just more of the same thing, don't worry about it.

it doesn't matter if it takes work to disconnect and time to get to that Time Warner office to swap the box, plus the time to come home and reconnect. they simply said: if they don't have it, go back another day.

that's it, that simple life is great when they don't have to do anything and you, the customer, has to do virtually everything.

when i asked about whether they are inquire as to what the inventory level is like of the 8300HDC boxes at that location, they replied that they "do not do that". not that they cannot, but that they simply "do not do that". i said that the last time someone did call to find out for me. their reply: "...i don't know why they would do that for you. i don't do that."

it is bad for blood pressure do speak to them. best avoided, holiday season or not!

they are typically aggravating, and places customer service/satisfaction very low on their list. i'm so glad that i did not switch my phone service to them - despite paying more. they are undeserving and should only get as much of my business as i have little choice at the moment.

sorry for being so upset. they are just so unaccomodating and worse yet, their attitudes are just so poor.

I don't know if it's possible in your house, but "ground" floor rooms can usually be reached from the basement, and "upstairs" rooms can generally be reached from the attic. So if you have a way to run wiring from basement to attic, you can make the run. My house had an electrical/mechanical chase that allowed me to run wiring (CAT6).

From a lower level, I ran a cable thru the wall to the outside, up the side of the house, and into the attic. From the attic I can run the cable to any of the upstairs rooms. Depending on the outside color of the house, the color of the cable, etc; it may not be very visible.

eieio,

Not that it's an excuse for being rude, it isn't, but there are probably dozens of folks just like you wanting a "new" box simply because it's new and there is nothing wrong with the box they currently have. Like Mike said, if in fact your friend has an 8300HDC with a cablecard and Navigator, you need to really test drive it for awhile before you try to get a new box with it. I'm sure by now Navigator is better than it was when first released, but that doesn't mean you'll like it compared to what you have now.

Also, since there is nothing wrong with your box, why should TWC gratiously give you a new one? Not trying to be nasty here, but what if everyone tried to do that? These boxes do cost a bit of money you know. Also, like Mike says, at some point Navigator will be pushed to all boxes, so unless you know for sure that Navigator works well and offers you something you don't have now, why worry about it, especially if you have to go through some hassle to disconnect and reconnect things?

I also don't know that they have access to real-time inventory. Most stores have boxes on shelves and they simply issue whatever box they happen to grab. If the CSR tells you they have one and that one is then given out before you get to the store, what good did that do? Your best bet is to simply go to the store and get one. If you get what you want, take it home, disconnect the old one and then return it. If you do it all the same day, it shouldn't cost you anything. If you do it a day or so later, the most you'll be out is a few dollars for double rentaland 2 trips to the store. :)

eieio,

Not that it's an excuse for being rude, it isn't, but there are probably dozens of folks just like you wanting a "new" box simply because it's new and there is nothing wrong with the box they currently have. Like Mike said, if in fact your friend has an 8300HDC with a cablecard and Navigator, you need to really test drive it for awhile before you try to get a new box with it. I'm sure by now Navigator is better than it was when first released, but that doesn't mean you'll like it compared to what you have now.Dave, I think you have something there. But, I also note from eieio's response to Michaelscott a bit of an attitude that may have really been the reason that he ran into "resistance" at TW. But, whatever..........

From other posts, it is pretty clear that ALL that TW in NYC is handing out is 8300HDCs, so if the guy wants to get the "C" and "Crapigator" because he likes the way the guide looks - more power to him. But, then we should all put him on our ignore lists when he starts complaining about all the other problems (past the pretty guide) he has and can't get his old Passport box back.

Dave, I think you have something there. But, I also note from eieio's response to Michaelscott a bit of an attitude that may have really been the reason that he ran into "resistance" at TW. But, whatever..........

From other posts, it is pretty clear that ALL that TW in NYC is handing out is 8300HDCs, so if the guy wants to get the "C" and "Crapigator" because he likes the way the guide looks - more power to him. But, then we should all put him on our ignore lists when he starts complaining about all the other problems (past the pretty guide) he has and can't get his old Passport box back.I thought of that too, but since I don't know him, I give him the benefit of the doubt. We all know how bad some CSRs can be even when you go out of your way to be nice. But, no matter what, there really is no excuse for CSRs to be nasty. They are there to do nothing more than help you with your questions.

I think Mike got through to him that he really needs to check out Navigator before he jumps through hoops to get it just because it looks prettier, etc. If he had SARA, that would be one thing, but to go out of your way to replace Passport seems a bit short-sighted IMHO.

From a lower level, I ran a cable thru the wall to the outside, up the side of the house, and into the attic. From the attic I can run the cable to any of the upstairs rooms. Depending on the outside color of the house, the color of the cable, etc; it may not be very visible.
I've seen that, too; external wiring. With some - quite a few - houses, construction does not lend itself to retrowiring. So you do what you need to do.

Dave, I think you have something there. But, I also note from eieio's response to Michaelscott a bit of an attitude that may have really been the reason that he ran into "resistance" at TW. But, whatever..........

From other posts, it is pretty clear that ALL that TW in NYC is handing out is 8300HDCs, so if the guy wants to get the "C" and "Crapigator" because he likes the way the guide looks - more power to him. But, then we should all put him on our ignore lists when he starts complaining about all the other problems (past the pretty guide) he has and can't get his old Passport box back.

May I ask where in my response to Michaelscott that i have "a bit of an attitude"? It would help me understand how I come across, even though I did not mean it.

From there, you went on to mention that you suggest that "...we should all put me on your ignore lists"? Ouch. What have I done in a short couple of posts? What did I really say or do wrong, if you don't mind, so I understand?

Others, please opine and chime in and help us all understand with objectivity. Thanks in advance.

Oh, btw, I understand how you guys feel that one ought not go exchange a perfectly working box for another box. I do think that while it may be a fine line, it really isn't against their rules, even those unwritten rules. Am I off base? What are the real rules anyway, if anyone happens to know. Thx.

May I ask where in my response to Michaelscott that i have "a bit of an attitude"? It would help me understand how I come across, even though I did not mean it.

From there, you went on to mention that you suggest that "...we should all put me on your ignore lists"? Ouch. What have I done in a short couple of posts? What did I really say or do wrong, if you don't mind, so I understand?
You did not do or say anything wrong. Some of us need a firmware upgrade to our speculation and sensitivity modules. It happens to most of us that hang on this thread too long. :)

Oh, btw, I understand how you guys feel that one ought not go exchange a perfectly working box for another box. I do think that while it may be a fine line, it really isn't against their rules, even those unwritten rules. Am I off base? What are the real rules anyway, if anyone happens to know. Thx.No, you're not off-base. If you want to exchange it, there is no rule against it. It's just that if you put yourself in their shoes and you were paying the tab, would you want thousands of users trying to exchange perfectly good boxes? Given what you said in your post, your only reason for doing so is that your friend's software "looked" different/nicer. Mike explained that you might want to check the software out further because of past problems with Navigator. I then added that if you find it works better for you, then by all means, ask for a new box, but don't be surprised if they are reserving their somewhat short supply for new customers only.

I think the "attitude" comment comes from your description of the exchange with the CSR. It sounded to me like there was a lot of "challenging" in that exchange and some anger that the CSR didn't understand what you were talking about. Those of us who have been around awhile can make the leap that you are probably talking about Passport on your box and Navigator on your friends box, but the CSR simply might not be up to speed enough to have understood what you were trying to say. If I didn't know anything about Navigator, I doubt I could have made much sense of what you were talking about either.

Your post also made it sound like you got more than a little irritated with him/her, especially on the inventory issue since another CSR you talked to apparently did some kind of inventory check. That may have simply been asking a co-worker if they had heard of the 8300HDC, not that they did any kind of real-time check on their system. Most CSRs for most cableco's cannot tell you what model each store has and if they will have a particular one when you get there. Maybe it should be, but it's not like calling Best Buy and putting a unit on hold and getting angry with a given CSR is not going to change that.

Far be it for me to say I've never gotten irritated with a CSR, but I try to understand that they have a set of rules to work with and they are relatively poorly trained. Unless you happen to get a CSR that actually has HD at home, their level of technical knowledge is severely limited. That is one of the biggest reasons cableco's get such a bad rap for customer service. CSRs have to try to answer questions, like yours, without receiving the training to do so. They basically learn as they go and the next person who calls that CSR with a similar question will get a better response.

And, finally, terminology used here leaves a lot to the imagination. Even though I noted what I thought was some "attitude" in your post, I don't know you, so I didn't let it bother me. We all have different ways of describing a situtation. The best thing to do then is simply try to respond with some information that may help. Like I said, Mike described Navigator and I tried to add some info to help you get what you want, even though I see no need to exchange your box. Even after a couple of hours with Navigator, you may find you still want to exchange it and then run into cablecard problems, missed recordings, etc.

I think The Other Dave's "attitude" comment was simply meant to get you to think harder about what to do based upon the info Mike and I provided. Based on your follow-up post, I'm not sure you still understand what we were trying to tell you about Navigator or that you've checked further to confirm that is indeed what we/you are talking about. If it's not Navigator on his box, then I think we are all as confused as the CSR was and we need some more info in order to help.

You did not do or say anything wrong. Some of us need a firmware upgrade to our speculation and sensitivity modules. It happens to most of us that hang on this thread too long. :)Please send me a copy of that firmware upgrade. :)
It could really come in handy at work, especially after these two weeks...

v/r,
C-F

Please send me a copy of that firmware upgrade. :)
It could really come in handy at work, especially after these two weeks...

v/r,
C-Fnow,now,there is "some" history here leading to that comment. :)

BTW C-F, my daughter moved from TWC Passport in NC to TWC SARA in El Paso. Funny thing is that other than a few questions/comments, she just pressed on using what she has without going balistic (unlike some ;) ). Not sure where she got that calmness though, it sure wasn't from me. :)

Locally, TWC San Diego has been rolling out Navigator very slowly, starting with the new HDC-model STBs. (FCC regulations forbid them to continue to buy STBs for lease which use built-in conditional access methods; they're required to use CableCARDs or some other form of FCC approved separable security in the products that they lease, as of 1 July this year. This is an effort to improve their support of CableCARD). As soon as they iron out any huge problems with these new boxes, they plan to push the new software into the existing boxes.

Same here on the "other" coast. Not one person has posted they got a HD/Passport box since 7/1, so it looks like TWC is tossing all the ones o/h or returned (they COULD hand them out without consequence, they are used and thus NOT subject to the FCC mandate). BTW, those who post on AVS from here are saying many of the same issues are in the software that we noticed from the test areas... shows NOT being recorded, stored recordings being wiped out).

What is REALLY scary is the push of Craptigator to HD boxes. We KNOW there is going to be a separate version of Craptigator for these boxes. We think we know the issue revolves around the memory footprint; large for HDC, less for HD boxes. Sure seems the main version was made for running in a larger memory space, so they AVE to re-jigger it for the HD box.

Great, they can't get it running properly in a bigger memory space, what makes ANYONE think they can d the same in a more RAM restrictive environment?

It will not send DD over analog audio, but the "stereo" signal it will send can be decoded by Dolby Pro Logic (DPL). Of course, not being digital, noticeable audio quality will be lost. What about the coaxial digital output? FYI, there are relatively inexpensive "boxes" that will convert coaxial to optical (and vice versa).

Both the co-ax and the optical output carry the same signals... BUT one does it digitally, the other analog. Analog CAN pick up noise along the cable, so just be careful where you run that co-ax cable.

In theory, the whole process of analog encoding and decoding very much can introduce artifacts; however I don't think anyone has presented any hard evidence it is a "degraded" sound. It would not surprise me if measurement with very expensive equipment may show this; in actual listening tests I doubt anyone could hear all that much difference.

You did not do or say anything wrong. Some of us need a firmware upgrade to our speculation and sensitivity modules. It happens to most of us that hang on this thread too long. :)

Very diplomatic, my friend! Some FAR worse than others, don't you know!

Analog CAN pick up noise along the cable, so just be careful where you run that co-ax cable.

In theory, the whole process of analog encoding and decoding very much can introduce artifacts; however I don't think anyone has presented any hard evidence it is a "degraded" sound. It would not surprise me if measurement with very expensive equipment may show this; in actual listening tests I doubt anyone could hear all that much difference.
I was referring to the stereo RCA connection and that it can only be "decoded" by the old, matrix Dolby Pro Logic. Loss of surround quality occurs. Plus digital seems cleaner and clearer. At least IMO.

Great, they can't get it running properly in a bigger memory space, what makes ANYONE think they can d the same in a more RAM restrictive environment?Comparing the two spec sheets for the 8300HD and 8300HDC, it looks as though the OCAP platform that they run requires 128 MB of applications RAM, so they can't use the OCAP version of the Navigator on the old boxes. But the disasterous initially deployed versions of Navigator that they subjected an unsuspecting group of innocent subs to last year in Lincoln, NE and other places was pushed to older 8300HD boxes, so it couldn't have been the OCAP version.

It will not send DD over analog audio, but the "stereo" signal it will send can be decoded by Dolby Pro Logic (DPL). Of course, not being digital, noticeable audio quality will be lost. What about the coaxial digital output? FYI, there are relatively inexpensive "boxes" that will convert coaxial to optical (and vice versa).
Here are some Dolby Digital Coax to Optical converter boxes (and vice versa):
http://www.uniqueproductsonline.com/diaucospcoto.html
http://www.svideo.com/coaxtoslink1.html
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&WebPage_ID=3
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2284678&cp=&sr=1&origkw=cables+to+go+converter&kw=cables+to+go+converter&parentPage=search
http://search.cablestogo.com/?qu=coax%20optical%20converter

I've also seen some A/V Switches that perform the conversion.

Here are some Dolby Digital Coax to Optical converter boxes (and vice versa):
http://www.uniqueproductsonline.com/diaucospcoto.html
http://www.svideo.com/coaxtoslink1.html
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&WebPage_ID=3
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2284678&cp=&sr=1&origkw=cables+to+go+converter&kw=cables+to+go+converter&parentPage=search
http://search.cablestogo.com/?qu=coax%20optical%20converter

I've also seen some A/V Switches that perform the conversion.
Monoprice has them too (an AVS Forum sponsor): http://www.monoprice.com
/Dan

Monoprice has them too (an AVS Forum sponsor): http://www.monoprice.com
/Dan

Yep, and it's only like $11 :eek:

Thanks all, for guiding me towards NOT getting the new "HDC". it is not worth the effort to go through all that for virtually no additional "utility" other than some minimal eye candy.

Special thanks to Mike, whose detailed postings enlightened me about specifics.

To various others, thx for encouraging me to not get the silly new HDC w/its silly new software, at least not yet. I'm pleased to note that the "call" for all to "block" me is possibly not going to happen. ;)

I guess i'll wait a while, until the bugs get worked out better. It sounds like it will be a while though...it's been out for months and it still doesn't sound like it's running too smoothly.

thx all again.

I guess i'll wait a while, until the bugs get worked out better. It sounds like it will be a while though...it's been out for months and it still doesn't sound like it's running too smoothly.Navigator was first deployed in limited markets about 15 months ago. It was so buggy and caused so many customer complaints that Lincoln, Nebraska held city council meetings to evaluate TWC's performance as a cable provider. If you're interested, you can peruse the Time Warner Cable Navigator (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8434087) thread for the gruesome details. People in the thread are still grumbling and living in fear of it getting pushed into their boxes, though I doubt that it's nearly as bad as it started out.

Comparing the two spec sheets for the 8300HD and 8300HDC, it looks as though the OCAP platform that they run requires 128 MB of applications RAM, so they can't use the OCAP version of the Navigator on the old boxes. But the disasterous initially deployed versions of Navigator that they subjected an unsuspecting group of innocent subs to last year in Lincoln, NE and other places was pushed to older 8300HD boxes, so it couldn't have been the OCAP version.

Really? So we'll have mixed deployment of OCAP and non-OCAP capable boxes? Something doesn't seem to make sense then... wouldn't most of the advantages of the OCAP middleware be lost then?

Of course, the pessimist in me thinks that this non-HDC box version will somehow DO OCAP (a FAR scarier prospect, wouldn't you say?). It also makes me realize that the TWC policy in my city is spot on... no HD boxes being given out (although they CAN do that as they are used and NOT subject to the 7/1 FCC mandate).

I'm pleased to note that the "call" for all to "block" me is possibly not going to happen. ;)I think you're taking that comment way to seriously, even though a Smiley wasn't included. Knowing The Other Dave, I'm sure he was just trying to get you to see the light and do some further research before demanding an HDC with still very buggy software. His point was that if you were not going to listen to our advice now (and it sure sounded to me like you weren't), why should we then offer more advice once you finally realized your mistake. :)

I've taken my share of hits here over the years, many deserved, but I still don't have anyone in my Ignore list. Mind you, a couple have made it there temporarily, but this exchange is not something that would have caused even that. Personal attacks, now that's a different story, but that's what the moderators are for and they do a very good job. FWIW, you were never in danger of being ignored by 99.9% of the participants here.

... wouldn't most of the advantages of the OCAP middleware be lost then?I'm not sure how. OCAP is designed to let 3rd parties join the foray and they can certainly design more RAM into their units, if that's really a concern.

I don't think there is anything to worry about. I've seen nothing to indicate that current HDs won't do OCAP and I'm fairly sure Navigator will be shrunk if it needs to be. IMHO, there simply is nothing in Navigator that should require any more RAM than Passport or SARA does to begin with. Of course, RAM may limit the amount of IPG data that can be downloaded, so current HD boxes may never get a 14-day IPG, etc. AFAIK, most cableco's are pressing on with OCAP. I don't know of any plans to swap out HDs for HDCs and I can't imagine they'd have money in the budget for doing that.

I assume an OCAP version of SARA is/will be available to run on HDs/HDCs and I think it's already been said there is an OCAP version of Passport, just that TWC decided to go with the in-house Navigator instead.

To various others, thx for encouraging me to not get the silly new HDC w/its silly new software, at least not yet. I'm pleased to note that the "call" for all to "block" me is possibly not going to happen. ;) Glad to hear that you have taken the advice that several of us tried so hard to get you to take. My suggestion regarding the "ignore" list was that IF you persisted, in spite of our collective advice, that we not then have to listen to your complaints once you got the "C" box (and found that you couldn't go back).

Peace and love. :)

According to the spec sheet, the RAM difference is huge--64 MB of applications RAM in the current boxes versus 128 MB available for the C boxes and required to run the OCAP platform. This is understandable; I wouldn't expect a whole additional 64MB to be necessary, but the execution environment of a Java profile does not represent a trivial amount of memory. I could easily believe that it wouldn't fit in 64 MB along with a major application like the IPG.

(I just took another look at the Explorer 8300HDC spec sheet (http://www.cisco.com/application/pdf/en/us/guest/products/ps8613/c1650/cdccont_0900aecd806c6920.pdf). What it actually says is "Axiom DVR Middleware for OCAP support is recommended only for the 8300C/HDC models that have 128MB RAM". So, maybe the OCAP platform will run on a 64MB model. Of course, it might not leave enough applications RAM for Navigator. Moreover, TWC might not be using SA's OCAP middleware; some other platform might have different memory requirements).

I believe that there are two version of Navigator. The OCAP spec was far from finished when they started developing this and the first version was written in C or C++ (OCAP apps are written in Java). I think that they refer to the non-OCAP version as Mystro Digital Navigator or "MDN" and the OCAP one as ODN (Mystro was their codename for the original product). MDN will run on legacy boxes and ODN is intended to run on any OCAP platform. They worked closely on ODN with Samsung, who produced OCAP televisions on which they demonstrated ODN at CES and other product shows (of course, looking at Samsung's current crop of television's they seem to have abandoned CableCARD altogether, like Sony last year).

I'm not sure how. OCAP is designed to let 3rd parties join the foray and they can certainly design more RAM into their units, if that's really a concern.

I don't think there is anything to worry about. I've seen nothing to indicate that current HDs won't do OCAP and I'm fairly sure Navigator will be shrunk if it needs to be. IMHO, there simply is nothing in Navigator that should require any more RAM than Passport or SARA does to begin with. Of course, RAM may limit the amount of IPG data that can be downloaded, so current HD boxes may never get a 14-day IPG, etc. AFAIK, most cableco's are pressing on with OCAP. I don't know of any plans to swap out HDs for HDCs and I can't imagine they'd have money in the budget for doing that.

I assume an OCAP version of SARA is/will be available to run on HDs/HDCs and I think it's already been said there is an OCAP version of Passport, just that TWC decided to go with the in-house Navigator instead.
I've found real-time programmers have the ability to "fit" pretty much whatever
RAM they are given....and it'll cease to operate in a box with only half the RAM
of the original s/w release.....until it's been revised to "fit" the new RAM size.

S/W Development Rule #134:
"Software expands to fill the allotted space."

BTW: Multi-day IPG data can readily be kept in a hard drive file vice RAM.

PS: We should always bear in mind that the STB/DVR is PRIMARILY decoding
MPEG2 data streams into viewable video outputs....which is mostly UNAFFECTED
by all of this OCAP/NAVIGATOR IPG...which is just a bunch of non-real-time
USER CONTROLS....which frees up RAM by killing/shrinking the video picture.
So a programmer can swap a bunch of overlays from disc into whatever RAM
is left over after doing the primary task.

(of course, looking at Samsung's current crop of television's they seem to have abandoned CableCARD altogether, like Sony last year).Doesn't this fit in with the move to DCAS as the software-based security of choice? Wasn't cablecard always considered an interim solution shoved down cable's throat by the FCC simply because DCAS was taking so long with no real ETA in sight? Also, isn't it expected that at some point subs will need a box with both cable and sat anyway?

Doesn't this fit in with the move to DCAS as the software-based security of choice? Wasn't cablecard always considered an interim solution shoved down cable's throat by the FCC simply because DCAS was taking so long with no real ETA in sight? Also, isn't it expected that at some point subs will need a box with both cable and sat anyway?When CableCARD was adopted there had been no mention of DCAS that I ever saw. The 2005 deadline to support CableCARD in their leased STBs came up and they still weren't talking about it (though they apparently demonstrated a prototype implementation to the FCC in late 2005). DCAS became a big topic about a year later, and when the 2007 extended deadline for CableCARD in leased STBs arrived, they started whining for more time so that they could complete DCAS, which they were denied.

Both the co-ax and the optical output carry the same signals... BUT one does it digitally, the other analog. Analog CAN pick up noise along the cable, so just be careful where you run that co-ax cable.I have a Zektor switch which does the conversion, so I never thought much about it, but I am a bit confused here. Are you saying "analog" and meaning "electric"? The coax output is still digital audio output (S/PDIF), right? I thought the only three differences were: Ground isolation with the optical connection Conversions - as the optical path introduces two new conversions (electric-optic ... optic-electric) Potential noise (as mentioned) picked up at the coax RCA connector and metal wire, but not nearly the same effect as RF interference would be on an analog waveformv/r,
C-F

SOMEONE HELP!!!!!
I even know what to call this problem.
I have a TWC 8300HDC here in Maspeth, NY
I woke this morning to the box saying, h### scrolling up & down. numbers changing constantly.
Whenever I touch a button, it changes to a d### scrolling and goes right back to h### scrolling.
Power button does not work.
The DVD is using the extra outlet and it doesn't power up.
I had to un plug it to check to see that the DVD player is working.
Of course TWC CSR didn't know what to do and says the tech guy will have to come out, 4 days from now
Can someone point me in the right direction???

You might try unplugging the power, then press and hold the power button while plugging the power back in until/if you see "boot" on the display.

The other thing to try is to disconnect all cables and leave it off for several hours, preferrably overnight, then connect it all back up.

My guess though is that you will need a new box. :(

EDIT: See pepar's suggestion. It never hurts to wait awhile before doing anything. :)

SOMEONE HELP!!!!!
I even know what to call this problem.
I have a TWC 8300HDC here in Maspeth, NY
I woke this morning to the box saying, h### scrolling up & down. numbers changing constantly.
Whenever I touch a button, it changes to a d### scrolling and goes right back to h### scrolling.
Power button does not work.
The DVD is using the extra outlet and it doesn't power up.
I had to un plug it to check to see that the DVD player is working.
Of course TWC CSR didn't know what to do and says the tech guy will have to come out, 4 days from now
Can someone point me in the right direction???
Sounds like it is reloading software, maybe being pushed from the cable company. Don't touch it! Give it an hour of two and then check it. If it's still flashing different codes, call your cable provider.

Good morning, Dave. :)

Sounds like it is reloading software, maybe being pushed from the cable company. Don't touch it! Give it an hour of two and then check it. If it's still flashing different codes, call your cable provider.

Good morning, Dave. :)And a good morning to you Sir (sounds like something out of 2001, A Space Odyssey). :)

Anyway, I would have suggested that too, but he said he already called the cableco. Plus, I've never seen a software load take that kind of time or constantly scroll the display like that. One has to hope they aren't pushing Navigator though, I suppose that could take some time. :(

And a good morning to you Sir (sounds like something out of 2001, A Space Odyssey). :)

Anyway, I would have suggested that too, but he said he already called the cableco. Plus, I've never seen a software load take that kind of time or constantly scroll the display like that. One has to hope they aren't pushing Navigator though, I suppose that could take some time. :(
In Izvestia there is no news, in Pravda there is no truth and in CSR there is no service. Short of taking the DVR completely off-line, all he can do is wait for the technician. I'm not even sure the CSR should "hit" the box when it's doing the hex dance.

(sounds like something out of 2001, A Space Odyssey). :):(

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other begin

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other beginThat's a good one. Actually, I didn't realize how appropriate my reference to 2001 was, I was just referring to the exchange, "Good morning Dave, Good morning Hal". :)

Hi Mike:

Thanks again for your clear and detailed explanation.

Noting the above from your "state of the cable industry 'address'" ;) i sort of see a recommendation for me to take my older 8300 in to Time Warner and exchange it for the newer 8300. Of course, it is not easy to be certain that they will have the "newer" 8300 on hand AT THAT 23rd Street Time Warner location! It would be a massive hassle to unplug everything, go there, stand in line, and be told: no, we don't have any of this new model...and then come home, reconnect everything, and do that again and again till i'm fortunate enough to get to that Time Warner location when they DO have that particular model in stock! right? on the other hand, i should be "all set" for a while if i did that, not having to worry about the "rush" of a large number of people who will soon discover that there is a newer model out there and rush to Time Warner to exchange their box/DVR.

May I ask in your expert opinion, would it be wise for me to exchange it now? Are there downsides? Or only upsides?

thank you very much.

FWIW , I'm in NYC, and I got my first HDTV last week, so I took my old SA box to Time Warner Cable on 23rd, and the HD box they gave me in return was an 8300HDC, apparently with the new Navigator software and remote. The 8300HDC also came with a CableCard installed and bolted into the slot in the back. For the record, the service at 23rd St was completely pleasant, but then again I wasn't there to report a complaint.

My main programming complaint with the software is that I no longer seem to have the option to record a series on ALL channels -- something desireable for a show like 'This Old House' , or old shows that get rerun on several channels (e.g. Star Trek).

Also the box setup is confusing; the literature supplied, grossly inadequate; and I'm using HDMI and I'm still not sure I've got it configured right . And I haven't yet figured out how to enter 'Diagnostic' mode. At this point I just want to reset and start over, but I'm not sure how to do that either.

Hi

Tried scanning this thread, but theres too much to look through. Want to know if I have a defective DVR, or if this is a common problem. And if so, if there is an easy solution.

I got SA 8300HDC two weeks ago. In 13 days, it has had to be rebooted about 8 times (reboot being press info/vol+/vol - all at once). The reasons:

1) The DVR is unable to record. I press record, its says "rec" but the red light does not come on, and nothing is recorded.
2) I am unable to change channels. I click channel up/down, or enter channel number directly. Bottom of screen reflects the change I am trying to make, but the box does not tune the new channel.
3) Certain channels go dark, particularly channels in the 100s... FineLiving, DIY, etc. It changes to that channel, but there is no picture and no sound. Or, it shows it at about 2 second intervals. Unwatchable.

Is there some trick to avoid these issues? My Tivo is still hooked up. Could it be that when I have HD DVR set to record 2 things and Tivo tries to change the channel for a suggestion, that crashes the DVR?

I have been using TIVO for a year, but decided to try TWC HD DVR service for HD recording capability and for price break ($9 vs $19 per month). So far, incredibly disappointed. Besides the issues above:

a) Remote is not designed well. Commonly used buttons are hard to reach, and lease used buttons (On Demand) are where your thumb goes to. This might be by design, but it is freakin stupid. Somebody tell TWC... lol.
b) Software not designed well. With Tivo, I could FF at top speed and hit play when I first see commercial is back on. Tivo will start playing right at the end of the last commercial. Not sure if they did response time studies, etc to know approx how far to go back, but thats how it worked out. SA 8300, when I try that, I miss like 10-20 seconds of the show and have to rewind after hitting play. Frustrating. There are many other issues, including searching for shows, inability to not record a show that is already recorded, etc.

Any other former Tivo users out there? Thoughts? Should I forget about the money and invest in a Tivo HD box?

One more complaint about TWC... I had appt for someone to come look at/replace the box last Saturday, from 2-6pm. Emergency at work meant I had to go in at 11am. I called to let them know that my gf would be at my apt by 2:45 and I would be home by 3:30... please call field workers and ask them to come after 4pm if possible. They said they had no way of reaching the guys in the truck. What are we, in 1972? I also gave them my cell number, but nobody bothered to call. Doorman said they called another number (my home number) and left when there was no answer. Geeez.

Wow, sorry, didnt realize my post was so long. lol. Very frustrated/angry. Sorry for the venting. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Wow, sorry, didnt realize my post was so long. lol. Very frustrated/angry. Sorry for the venting. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.Your Explorer 8300HDC is probably running Time Warner's new OCAP Digital Navigator (if it looks like the illustrations in this (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/50/Content%20Management/Products%20And%20Services/documents/TheNewGuide-QuickTips_web.pdf) document, it is), so you might want to repost your query in the the Time Warner Cable Navigator (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8434087) thread. The repetitive reboots sounds like something that people have reported for that IPG. I don't know that anyone can actually help to solve these problems at this point. The software is still fairly buggy, over a year since introduction.

Wow, sorry, didnt realize my post was so long. lol. Very frustrated/angry. Sorry for the venting. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.You didn't include your location in your profile, so we don't know what particular cable system that you are on. That can make a big difference (so why not add it to your profile?). I suspect that your new box is now running Navigator software, and there is an AVS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830&page=90) devoted to that.

I just switched my TW box back to the SA 8300HD from the 8300HDC because the OCAP software was a nightmare. I now have the passport software, which is so much better.

Anyways, now that I can actually decide what output formats I want to run while using my HDMI cable, I was wondering what people using this box recommend. Right now I have just 1080i running, but would it do me any good to have all or some settings enabled?

The other question I have is about the grey sidebars. I gone through this thread and played around with solutions some people have used to get rid of them, but I can't seem to. Does anyone have a way to do that?

I'm running Time Warner Cable into a SA Explorer 8300HD. My tv is a Sharp LC52D64U.

Thanks for any help and advice!

I would haul that HDC back to the CWC office asap, and get another passport box, I did and they exchanged it no questions asked.

And as expected, the x10 wireless transmitters didn't work, I got full picture and sound, but there was always static lines and sound present. I just read on Engadget that the xbox 360 has been found to emit interfering 2.4ghz signal even when turned off so thats what was probably causing the problem. Grrr...back to square one..

Hi

Tried scanning this thread, but theres too much to look through. Want to know if I have a defective DVR, or if this is a common problem. And if so, if there is an easy solution.

I got SA 8300HDC two weeks ago. In 13 days, it has had to be rebooted about 8 times (reboot being press info/vol+/vol - all at once). The reasons:

1) The DVR is unable to record. I press record, its says "rec" but the red light does not come on, and nothing is recorded.
2) I am unable to change channels. I click channel up/down, or enter channel number directly. Bottom of screen reflects the change I am trying to make, but the box does not tune the new channel.
3) Certain channels go dark, particularly channels in the 100s... FineLiving, DIY, etc. It changes to that channel, but there is no picture and no sound. Or, it shows it at about 2 second intervals. Unwatchable.


Welcome to the Wonderful World of Navigator! :rolleyes: These are are standard problems on Navigator and are happening all across the country. It's really not the DVR that's defective, it's the Navigator software. If you're rebooting that much, you could take it back, but most likely you'll get another Navigator box. Thanks to OCAP, that's what they are supposed to give out now. Depending on where you live, you might get lucky and get a
SA8300HD(no C). The SA8300HD has the Passport software that is MUCH better than Navigator.

You may also want to check this out, ASV has a Navigator Forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830&page=90


[QUOTE=roykirk1;12506807a) Remote is not designed well. Commonly used buttons are hard to reach, and lease used buttons (On Demand) are where your thumb goes to. This might be by design, but it is freakin stupid. Somebody tell TWC... lol.[/QUOTE]

This is the first I've heard of a new remote. What is the model number/brand of it? I have the SA AT8550. Is there actually an "On Demand" button on the remote?:confused:

When CableCARD was adopted there had been no mention of DCAS that I ever saw. The 2005 deadline to support CableCARD in their leased STBs came up and they still weren't talking about it (though they apparently demonstrated a prototype implementation to the FCC in late 2005). DCAS became a big topic about a year later, and when the 2007 extended deadline for CableCARD in leased STBs arrived, they started whining for more time so that they could complete DCAS, which they were denied.I don't know when the acronym DCAS was adopted, but I am under the impression that cableco's did not want to support cablecards and wanted time to work out what DCAS will eventually become. It doesn't really matter though since the FCC denied their request for a further extension and we now have the HDC, some with Navigator, yipee!

Anyway, on the topic of RAM, here's some info vegggas sent me when I asked him about 8300HD limitations, etc.:
I've been to some OCAP developers conferences at the Cable show and various seminars, etc. Cox has lanuched what it calls OnRamp to OCAP in a few markets to put interactive services on all levels of SA STB's. The first real applications were the caller ID on the TV, and the interactive A B C questions on digital programs. Full OCAP compliance to use the JAVA carosel of aps will need as much memory and processor power as possible as in the HDC, but may also work in the HD. The HDC is where the new Tivo OCAP application will also reside. Programmers are fighting to overcome the Memory and processor limitations in STB's, compared to development PC's with almost virtual limitless resources.
I know it talks about Cox, but I'm sure it applies to others as well. Just food for thought.

The other question I have is about the grey sidebars. I gone through this thread and played around with solutions some people have used to get rid of them, but I can't seem to. Does anyone have a way to do that?

I'm running Time Warner Cable into a SA Explorer 8300HD. My tv is a Sharp LC52D64U.

Thanks for any help and advice!

There is no way in the menu to change it. It's kinda annoying, but not a big deal, considering how awful Navigator was. I'm starting to get used to it, but I am playing around with the different output formats and the TV types. The bright grey sidebars do get irritating on dark shows or movies.

Another thing I've noticed is the 4:3 picture doesn't completely fill the 4:3 space between the bars on some channels, leaving black space btw the picture and usually the left sidebar. Some of the channels(mostly digital over 100 and HBO/premiums) do completely fill the space. It's usually the over-compressed digital channels under 100 that have this "extra space".

tried everything gonna have to wait, and its a she, not he :)

I am in NYC (Manhattan).

Thanks for the tip regarding Navigator. Will check that out. Everytime I reboot, it says boot, then OCAP, then everything blacks out for a few seconds, then it starts loading Mystic (?) sofware and counts down from 13 (maybe 14)?

The remote says UR5U-8800L-TWY at the bottom. There is a big On Demand button right in the center, and that is where my thumb ends up when I pick up the remote. Of course, how often do I use that button? Never. The TWC channel/site does NOT show or reference this remote anywhere. So even though it is a universal remote... I have no idea what the codes are to program it to use it for my Panny plasma, Onkyo HT, etc.

I am in NYC (Manhattan).

Thanks for the tip regarding Navigator. Will check that out. Everytime I reboot, it says boot, then OCAP, then everything blacks out for a few seconds, then it starts loading Mystic (?) sofware and counts down from 13 (maybe 14)?

The remote says UR5U-8800L-TWY at the bottom. There is a big On Demand button right in the center, and that is where my thumb ends up when I pick up the remote. Of course, how often do I use that button? Never. The TWC channel/site does NOT show or reference this remote anywhere. So even though it is a universal remote... I have no idea what the codes are to program it to use it for my Panny plasma, Onkyo HT, etc.Well, you definitely have Navigator.

As for the remote, is this (http://universal-remote.com/product_detail.php?model=123) it? If it is, click the link and that may help you with setup. FWIW, I had to remove the TWY for google to find anything useful.

How Time Warner-like to give you something and not tell you how to use it! I checked out that link. I'm really going to take care of my SA remote. Those new remotes look like those cheap universal remotes you can buy at a discount store.

How Time Warner-like to give you something and not tell you how to use it! I checked out that link. I'm really going to take care of my SA remote. Those new remotes look like those cheap universal remotes you can buy at a discount store.TWC is not the only cableco who uses mulitple remotes and doesn't give out documentation unless you ask for it. I got my SA remote from Cox and had to go back to get the User's Guide. Even though I downloaded it, at the time I wanted a hard copy simply because it should have been provided. :)

Also, the OP might want to check to see if a different remote is available. Sometimes all you have to do is ask. Many non-audiofiles use the remotes for each piece of gear, so they get by quite nicely with whatever they are given. I cringe every time I visit the in-laws because both my mother-in-law and sisters-in-law pick up multiple remotes to do anything. They are beyond help, I've tried. :)

Does anyone know if the 8300HD w/Passport will actually output DD on the HDMI port? I have an receiver with an HDMI input. From the quick check I did, it doesn't seem to, so maybe this is a limitation of the HDMI software. Anyone know?

Does anyone know if the 8300HD w/Passport will actually output DD on the HDMI port? I have an receiver with an HDMI input. From the quick check I did, it doesn't seem to, so maybe this is a limitation of the HDMI software. Anyone know?It should, if you've set it up properly (and if your receiver truly handles HDMI audio--there are several out there with HDMI inputs and an HDMI output which merely switch and pass the signal through and can't process the audio portion).

There's an item in the Audio section of General Settings called "Digital Out". It has values for HDMI, DD5.1 and Stereo (I think); if you choose HDMI, it will mix digital audio according to the capabilities of the downstream HDMI device, which it can find out by examining a data structure called Enhanced Extended Display Identification Data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDID#Enhanced_EDID_.28E-EDID.29) obtained over the HDMI connection. When they first added support for HDMI, this setting wasn't present and the HDMI digital audio mode was the only mode. Many people connected HDMI directly from the STB into their televisions; their televisions would report themselves capable of handling 2.0 or 2.1 channel sound and 2.0 or 2.1 channel sound is all that you'd get out of any of the digital audio connections, HDMI and S/PDIF (coax or optical). If you use the setting to select fixed DD5.1 or fixed stereo sound, I believe that it won't put any sound on HDMI at all, assuming that you're going to use one of the S/PDIF connections for digital sound.

It should, if you've set it up properly (and if your receiver truly handles HDMI audio--there are several out there with HDMI inputs and an HDMI output which merely switch and pass the signal through and can't process the audio portion).

There's an item in the Audio section of General Settings called "Digital Out". It has values for HDMI, DD5.1 and Stereo (I think); if you choose HDMI, it will mix digital audio according to the capabilities of the downstream HDMI device, which it can find out by examining a data structure called Enhanced Extended Display Identification Data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDID#Enhanced_EDID_.28E-EDID.29) obtained over the HDMI connection. When they first added support for HDMI, this setting wasn't present and the HDMI digital audio mode was the only mode. Many people connected HDMI directly from the STB into their televisions; their televisions would report themselves capable of handling 2.0 or 2.1 channel sound and 2.0 or 2.1 channel sound is all that you'd get out of any of the digital audio connections, HDMI and S/PDIF (coax or optical). If you use the setting to select fixed DD5.1 or fixed stereo sound, I believe that it won't put any sound on HDMI at all, assuming that you're going to use one of the S/PDIF connections for digital sound.

That extra menu is actually what causes the problem. I need to see if my receiver actually processes the HDMI audio. I do get output on the speakers on both the TV and the receiver (Onkyo SR-605), but the audio through HDMI seems to only be two channel on the receiver. When I switch it to DD on the DVR menu, it works, but since I can only assign on audio input and one video input per receiver mode, that makes it impossible to have the ability to use the audio from HDMI and DD (two seperate audio inputs) and HDMI video (one video input) on the same receiver mode. Using the HDMI/DD audio menu on the DVR doesn't do me any good anymore. Hopefully I've explained this well enough. Anyway, I need to see if the receiver passes through the audio or can actually process the HDMI stream, or maybe it's the Passport software that will only output 2 channels on HDMI regardless.

There is no way in the menu to change it. It's kinda annoying, but not a big deal, considering how awful Navigator was. I'm starting to get used to it, but I am playing around with the different output formats and the TV types. The bright grey sidebars do get irritating on dark shows or movies.


There is a sidebar color (light--dark) setting in setup in Navigator. I believe it's part of the 'Quick setup' menus. I can also 'get rid ' of them completely by using tha ASPECT button of the remote (I have one of the new UR5U-8800L-TWY remotes), which lets you change aspect ratio -- my connection is HDMI only btw, and I have all resolutions enabled, 16:9 screen size. This seems to make it impossible for me to expand 4:3 stuff to full screen using my HDTV's ASP function, so that ASPECT button on the remote is coming in handy.


Another thing I've noticed is the 4:3 picture doesn't completely fill the 4:3 space between the bars on some channels, leaving black space btw the picture and usually the left sidebar. Some of the channels(mostly digital over 100 and HBO/premiums) do completely fill the space. It's usually the over-compressed digital channels under 100 that have this "extra space".

I see this too (in NYC)

How Time Warner-like to give you something and not tell you how to use it! I checked out that link. I'm really going to take care of my SA remote. Those new remotes look like those cheap universal remotes you can buy at a discount store.

It's no cheaper looking/feeling than the one TWC gave me for my previous SA box -- the one with a thinner bottom and bulging top, which I think was standard. The new one actually feels more substantial. But TWC gave me almost NO instructions on how to use it, or the 8300HDC box itself.

Another thing I've noticed is the 4:3 picture doesn't completely fill the 4:3 space between the bars on some channels, leaving black space btw the picture and usually the left sidebar. Some of the channels(mostly digital over 100 and HBO/premiums) do completely fill the space. It's usually the over-compressed digital channels under 100 that have this "extra space".The source of this gap is a slight inconsistency in the sync pulses of the analog signal that these signals come from. The gray bars are based on the specs for a full frame, but unfortunately, there is some "slop" in that on analog signals. This, BTW, is one reason that overscan used to be common on analog sets. You'd think that the box would move those bars in a tad to avoid this problem, but then they would cut off a tiny portion of real full (4:3) frame images, and some folks would complain about that. So you can't win.

That extra menu is actually what causes the problem. I need to see if my receiver actually processes the HDMI audio. I do get output on the speakers on both the TV and the receiver (Onkyo SR-605), but the audio through HDMI seems to only be two channel on the receiver. When I switch it to DD on the DVR menu, it works, but since I can only assign on audio input and one video input per receiver mode, that makes it impossible to have the ability to use the audio from HDMI and DD (two seperate audio inputs) and HDMI video (one video input) on the same receiver mode. Using the HDMI/DD audio menu on the DVR doesn't do me any good anymore. Hopefully I've explained this well enough. Anyway, I need to see if the receiver passes through the audio or can actually process the HDMI stream, or maybe it's the Passport software that will only output 2 channels on HDMI regardless.I'm pretty sure that Passport passes 5.1 through HDMI--the addition of the Digital Out feature seemed to more or less satisfy everyone. The problem before they added it was that many people (actually most people) don't have HDMI handling receivers, so they connected the HDMI directly from the STB to their televisions and an optical or coax S/PDIF cable to their receivers for surround sound. Since the STB took its cue from the HDMI connection as to how to mix digital sound (and it can only mix it one way or the other), those people couldn't get surround sound out of the S/PDIF connectors, because their televisions couldn't handle it. The "new" option (added in a pre-2.xxx release well over a year ago) made things work for those people since they could force DD5.1. I think that it was already working fine for people who were running it through the HDMI inputs of their HDMI-handling AVRs.

I'm certain that the Onkyo SR-TX605 handles HDMI audio--it's an HDMI 1.3 compliant device which can decode DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD lossless bitstreams and the only way that it could possibly receive them is over HDMI (and only over HDMI 1.3, for that matter). I have a far lower-class Onkyo HTiB receiver (HT-R640) that handles Dolby, DTS and 7.1 channel LPCM over HDMI like a champ.

I would haul that HDC back to the CWC office asap, and get another passport box, I did and they exchanged it no questions asked.

And as expected, the x10 wireless transmitters didn't work, I got full picture and sound, but there was always static lines and sound present. I just read on Engadget that the xbox 360 has been found to emit interfering 2.4ghz signal even when turned off so thats what was probably causing the problem. Grrr...back to square one..
I see numerous people reported XBox360 interference problems,
which reportedly was not present until a recent s/w update....maybe MS will "fix" it again...

Someone speculated XBox (floods the band?) querying any and all possible
remote controller freqs/channels.

You should at least VERIFY that this is indeed your problem by unplugging
XBox and watch the interference disappear. [Is XBox near remote receiver?]

You also should try different operating channels for the X-10 extenders.

Well, you definitely have Navigator.

As for the remote, is this (http://universal-remote.com/product_detail.php?model=123) it? If it is, click the link and that may help you with setup. FWIW, I had to remove the TWY for google to find anything useful.

Awesome! This is it exactly, except mine is branded Time Warner. Thanks!!

Now if I could get the #$^#$ DVR to function properly... when I woke up this morning, it was just in time to see the 13 as it counted down. It had decided to reboot itself!


Arrrrgh.

I see numerous people reported XBox360 interference problems,
which reportedly was not present until a recent s/w update....maybe MS will "fix" it again...

Someone speculated XBox (floods the band?) querying any and all possible
remote controller freqs/channels.

You should at least VERIFY that this is indeed your problem by unplugging
XBox and watch the interference disappear. [Is XBox near remote receiver?]

You also should try different operating channels for the X-10 extenders.
Holl_ands...

Yeah, I tried all the different channels on the transmitters, and it was still a no go. After reading that interference thingy on Engadget, I realized the whole thing wouldn't work anyway with 2.4Ghz transmitters because while my wife would be downstairs watching DVR stuff, I would be playing XBOX upstairs, so that kills that completely unless I spring for some 5.8Ghz transmitters for triple the price, and I don't know if I want to go there yet...

You're right. I just had HDMI audio out turned on for the receiver, which passed the audio from the cable box via HDMI straight through to the TV, causing the cable box to think it had to send only two channels. When I turned that off and let the receiver handle the sound, the cable box recognized it as 5.1 capable and started sending the correct sound. Looks like all I have to do is switch that option on and off through the receiver settings depending if I want sound just on my TV, or DD through my receiver. Thanks for the help! :D

I'm pretty sure that Passport passes 5.1 through HDMI--the addition of the Digital Out feature seemed to more or less satisfy everyone. The problem before they added it was that many people (actually most people) don't have HDMI handling receivers, so they connected the HDMI directly from the STB to their televisions and an optical or coax S/PDIF cable to their receivers for surround sound. Since the STB took its cue from the HDMI connection as to how to mix digital sound (and it can only mix it one way or the other), those people couldn't get surround sound out of the S/PDIF connectors, because their televisions couldn't handle it. The "new" option (added in a pre-2.xxx release well over a year ago) made things work for those people since they could force DD5.1. I think that it was already working fine for people who were running it through the HDMI inputs of their HDMI-handling AVRs.

I'm certain that the Onkyo SR-TX605 handles HDMI audio--it's an HDMI 1.3 compliant device which can decode DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD lossless bitstreams and the only way that it could possibly receive them is over HDMI (and only over HDMI 1.3, for that matter). I have a far lower-class Onkyo HTiB receiver (HT-R640) that handles Dolby, DTS and 7.1 channel LPCM over HDMI like a champ.

I have a Zektor switch which does the conversion, so I never thought much about it, but I am a bit confused here. Are you saying "analog" and meaning "electric"? The coax output is still digital audio output (S/PDIF), right? I thought the only three differences were: Ground isolation with the optical connection Conversions - as the optical path introduces two new conversions (electric-optic ... optic-electric) Potential noise (as mentioned) picked up at the coax RCA connector and metal wire, but not nearly the same effect as RF interference would be on an analog waveformv/r,
C-F

I was not being as clear as I could have... I probably misused the term "analog." Yes, it is the same signal, but for the co-ax connection, that signal needs to be modulated (encoded) whereas not for the optical connection. One needs to be mindful of the wire run of a co-ax connection more so than optical. AND there may be some esoteric degradation in audio for co-ax that probably will NOT be noticed except for high end testing equipment.

The software is still fairly buggy, over a year since introduction.

You sir, are a MASTER of understatement!

But I hear the one overseas programmer has quit in disgust so they are looking for a new one. In the meantime, there was one guy in marketing that had taken a high school Basic class and has been given the responsibility for Craptigator.

The other question I have is about the grey sidebars. I gone through this thread and played around with solutions some people have used to get rid of them, but I can't seem to. Does anyone have a way to do that?

If you are running passport, you can TRY this:

Enable all resolutions to be passed onto the TV. Set the 8300HD to 4:3.

I know that doesn't seem to make sense, but it works 100% for me, I haven't seen a gray sidebar for 8 months plus. You have nothing to lose, if it doesn't work, return your settings to what you have now.

I was not being as clear as I could have... I probably misused the term "analog." Yes, it is the same signal, but for the co-ax connection, that signal needs to be modulated (encoded) whereas not for the optical connection. One needs to be mindful of the wire run of a co-ax connection more so than optical. AND there may be some esoteric degradation in audio for co-ax that probably will NOT be noticed except for high end testing equipment.;)

Has anyone done the black bars trick with a Sony? How about a Sony LCOS?

I've done it with a Sony LCOS and the results are a little off. I do get the bars to change color, but they are not a true black. Instead the bars turn to what is really a very dark shade of gray. This is apparent on any SD channel, but especially obvious on on a letterboxed SD program (e.g. The Office on TBS SD). In the latter case, it is quite clear that the letterbox bars are much darker than the sidebars.

Now I've done the trick successfully with two different Panny plasmas. In fact, I've used the same box on the Sony LCOS as I have on the two plasmas. Unlike the Sony, on the Panny's the sidebars are a true black and indistinguishable from letterbox bars.

Any similar experiences out there? This doesn't seem like something that can be fixed, but of course I'd be happy to hear otherwise.

The "4:3" trick does work on a Sony LCD (XBR1 to be exact).

Has anyone done the black bars trick with a Sony? How about a Sony LCOS?

I've done it with a Sony LCOS and the results are a little off. I do get the bars to change color, but they are not a true black. Instead the bars turn to what is really a very dark shade of gray. This is apparent on any SD channel, but especially obvious on on a letterboxed SD program (e.g. The Office on TBS SD). In the latter case, it is quite clear that the letterbox bars are much darker than the sidebars.

Now I've done the trick successfully with two different Panny plasmas. In fact, I've used the same box on the Sony LCOS as I have on the two plasmas. Unlike the Sony, on the Panny's the sidebars are a true black and indistinguishable from letterbox bars.

Any similar experiences out there? This doesn't seem like something that can be fixed, but of course I'd be happy to hear otherwise.

please post exactly how you did this. i have a Sony LCOS 60XBR2 SXRD. i have tried every combination of setup i have seen posted. it's not killing me but i would be interested in trying out your method. currently it is set up as riverside suggest ( all resolutions checked, set as TV type standard 4:3 picture widescreen 16:9) but the side bars are still grey. i would be happy with very dark grey. i'd like to maintain OAR. what aspect do you have the LCOS set to?
thanks.

^^^
never mind......i went back through everything one more time. not completely sure what was changed but... now i can tune to any channel and not have grey side bars. they are black. i don't notice them being very dark grey as stated earlier by another poster. they look black to me. with the box set to all resolutions checked, TV type standard 4:3, picture widescreen 16:9, Sd channels were stretched. i was able to maintain the OAR by setting the TV to 'full' for 16:9 channels and 'normal' for 4:3 channels. the TV seems to remember this aspect ratio so i don't have to keep doing it when i change from HD to SD channels.

Here is my setup:

8300HD settings: As discussed

KDF-37H1000

Wide Mode: Normal

Auto Wide: On
4:3 Default: Off

Strutter, I'd wager that indeed nothing changed for you. Before your most recent post, I was planning to write that my experience with the Sony has been that even after getting the settings right, you have to change to an HD channel (i.e. feed the TV a different resolution) and then back to an SD channel before the black bars appear. I'm guessing that's what happened in your case without you realizing.

Now with regard to the bars on my set being dark gray, that's clearly something with the TV, not the cable box. I've deduced that the cable box is not outputting a 16:9 image with black bars on the side, rather it's outputting a 4:3 image and the TV is filling in the sides (which makes a lot of sense given that the 8300 is set to operate with a 4:3 TV). I don't think it has been previously reported that this is how the 'trick' works. I confirmed this result with my Panasonic by making the appropriate adjustment in the TV's settings to produce various shades of gray bars.

I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the Sony to display black bars. If someone knows, please advise.

Now with regard to the bars on my set being dark gray, that's clearly something with the TV, not the cable box. I've deduced that the cable box is not outputting a 16:9 image with black bars on the side, rather it's outputting a 4:3 image and the TV is filling in the sides I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the Sony to display black bars. If someone knows, please advise.

is it possible that the set needs a proper greyscale calibration? on a small 4:3CRT i have, if the TV is tuned to certain program it will appear with full letter boxing, the sidebars appear to be added by the TV while the upper and lower bars are provided by the box or broadcast station (not sure which). on this set the side bars that are added by the TV appear a lighter black than the upper and lower bars. i have never attempted calibrating this TV. however my KDS-R60XBR2 has been fully ISF calibrated and i don't see such black shadeing differences in the letterboxing. just a thought.

Thanks for the suggestion. If the grayscale were to blame would I see a sharp break between the lines? Because that is what I get. My intuition is that if the problem lay with the grayscale I would see a transition from black to gray, but that is certainly not the case here.

Thanks for the suggestion. If the grayscale were to blame would I see a sharp break between the lines? Because that is what I get. My intuition is that if the problem lay with the grayscale I would see a transition from black to gray, but that is certainly not the case here.

the calibration was just a thought, i really don't know if that will solve the issue or not. i mean the set is still responsible for rendering the color. so you'd think it would render both bars the same. I'm no pro I'm just trying to recollect what i saw pre and post calibration.
if i recall correctly i was seeing a slight difference on my XBR2 before calibration when i was running SARA. there was also a difference in the black in the picture -vs- black in the side bars.(when a totally black screen was broadcast it was blacker than the side bars but the same shade as the upper and lower bars) after calibration it's not like that.
a cheep and easy way to find out would be to record the tests that are broadcast on HDNET and adjust the set. another route, but not free,would be to get an Avia or DVE disc. it may not fully resolve the issue but it would be interesting to note any change.

I notice that with the 8300HD box when I turn off the TV I can no longer change the channel of the box whereas we used to be able to do this with our 8300SD.

Is this normal behavior? I can't change the channel either via the remote or directly via the box.

This of course is not the end of the world but occasionally i forget to change the channel to something i want to be in the buffer the next morning, then have to turn the TV back on in order to change channels. I don't want to create a timer for this as I don't want to regularly change to any channel in specific.

I'm connected via HDMI. Does the 8300HD sense that the TV is off somehow and turn this off? As soon as I turn the TV back on I can change channels.

TV and 8300HD are each connected independently to a surge protector.

TWC/NYC
Passport 2.6.002

Thanks!

Mine reacts the same way. Occasionally I will tune to one of the music channels and turn off the TV (connected via HDMI) and use my stereo. I can't change to any other channels when the TV is off. I've always assumed this was due to HDMI. Several years ago my 8300HD would actually turn off based on the TV power and HDMI signal, so at least now I can use it for music with the TV off.
I notice that with the 8300HD box when I turn off the TV I can no longer change the channel of the box whereas we used to be able to do this with our 8300SD.

Is this normal behavior? I can't change the channel either via the remote or directly via the box.

This of course is not the end of the world but occasionally i forget to change the channel to something i want to be in the buffer the next morning, then have to turn the TV back on in order to change channels. I don't want to create a timer for this as I don't want to regularly change to any channel in specific.

I'm connected via HDMI. Does the 8300HD sense that the TV is off somehow and turn this off? As soon as I turn the TV back on I can change channels.

TV and 8300HD are each connected independently to a surge protector.

TWC/NYC
Passport 2.6.002

Thanks!

I'm connected via HDMI. Does the 8300HD sense that the TV is off somehow and turn this off? As soon as I turn the TV back on I can change channels.It most definitely can sense that the television is off--HDMI is a two-way communication. It will not send the video stream to an inactive television; the downstream sink has to be active and capable of providing proof that it's a licensed HDMI participant.

It most definitely can sense that the television is off--HDMI is a two-way communication. It will not send the video stream to an inactive television; the downstream sink has to be active and capable of providing proof that it's a licensed HDMI participant.Wouldn't this be the same as losing the HDCP handshake and having the 8300 display the error message? I could be wrong, but I don't think you can change the channel then either.

I also assume the 8300SD the OP mentioned was not connected via HDMI and that is the reason for the different behavior.

It most definitely can sense that the television is off--HDMI is a two-way communication. It will not send the video stream to an inactive television; the downstream sink has to be active and capable of providing proof that it's a licensed HDMI participant.

It must be related to the version or implementation of HDMI. I originally had mine connected to a JVC with first generation HDMI and the 8300 would perform normally even if you were not viewing the input or even had the TV on. This was useful if you wanted to buffer or record something that was on a specific channel without switching the TV on. All you had to do was switch on the box, drop in the channel and hit record+Select.

Connected to a Sony with a 1.3a HDMI, the box will not do anything unless it's being viewed and has the annoying tendency to give a HDCP error if the TV input is selected too early in the power on cycle.

It most definitely can sense that the television is off--HDMI is a two-way communication. It will not send the video stream to an inactive television; the downstream sink has to be active and capable of providing proof that it's a licensed HDMI participant.

Perfectly logical... except for some reason, not true everywhere. I go HDMI to the display, could swear I've done this before, so I just turned on the 8300HD with the TV off, changed channels at will, even the PIP swap functioned.

Ha, as I wrote the above I realized I was popping around the VOD channels (which are SD), so I went back and did it with several of the premium HD channels, yes the box tuned each one. I could watch the display showing the different broadcast standards, 1080 and 720 and back to 480 (I leave my box tuned to the VOD channels to keep the buffers quiet, MAYBE my Passport box will keep going so I won't HAVE to get a HDC box).

Hey pepar,

Check out the latest posts over in the SARA thread. Looks like just as you're about to lose Passport for Navigator, we're about to get the latest OpenCable edition of the Passport platform here with Cox. I didn't research too much, but Gemstar/TVGuide bought Aptiv back in March and that might be why TWC decided to drop them (or at least not upgrade). Guess I'll have to get on the Passport bandwagon now. ;) Here's a link to those announcements:

http://www.socaltech.com/gemstar-tv_guide_acquires_aptiv_digital/s-0008339.html
http://www.gemstartvguide.com/PressRelease/tabid/128/Default.aspx?CID=595

Looks like just as you're about to lose Passport for Navigator, we're about to get the latest OpenCable edition of the Passport platform here with Cox.Yay, Cox! AFAIK, TiVo is still working on an SA port of what they did for Comcast (which will presumably be OCAP based as well). If Cox really wanted to sell that option, they'd have done better to stick with the detestible SARA as a standard :D.

Yay, Cox! AFAIK, TiVo is still working on an SA port of what they did for Comcast (which will presumably be OCAP based as well). If Cox really wanted to sell that option, they'd have done better to stick with the detestible SARA as a standard :D.I don't think Cox cares one way or the other. I think it's strictly Tivo trying to get a leg up on the competition before others jump into the OpenCable market. We will know a lot more after CES next month and I'm looking forward to vegggas' reports from there.

I chatted with my friend who works on TiVo this afternoon. He tells me that, as he understands it, Comcast isn't charging much for the TiVo option. It's a flat $3/month extra, no matter how many DVRs you have. So, it's not like it's a big money-making opportunity, anyway :).

I chatted with my friend who works on TiVo this afternoon. He tells me that, as he understands it, Comcast isn't charging much for the TiVo option. It's a flat $3/month extra, no matter how many DVRs you have. So, it's not like it's a big money-making opportunity, anyway :).But don't you still subscribe to Tivo service? Or does it just add Tivo look & feel to the Comcast IPG database? If so, does it have all the search, wishlist, etc., bells & whistles or is it limited in functions? Guess I need to go check out the Comcast thread again. :)

I never had this problem before -- my SA8300HD reboots itself immediately every time I switch from a non-HD channel to a high definition channel. I just started seeing this problem yesterday (1/1/08) after months of no problems. I tried using component cables (I used to use HDMI) and it works now. Is there a way I can avoid having to buy myself a new set of component cables and fix the problem with HDMI? Specifically, it looks like the set reboots itself every time it changes from 480p to 720p or 1080i.

Any ideas? Thanks.

I never had this problem before -- my SA8300HD reboots itself immediately every time I switch from a non-HD channel to a high definition channel. I just started seeing this problem yesterday (1/1/08) after months of no problems. I tried using component cables (I used to use HDMI) and it works now. Is there a way I can avoid having to buy myself a new set of component cables and fix the problem with HDMI? Specifically, it looks like the set reboots itself every time it changes from 480p to 720p or 1080i.

Any ideas? Thanks.

When I had a synching problem with the 8300HD the following worked:

Unplug the power to dvr
Unplug both component and hdmi cables from the dvr
Plug back in only the hdmi cables to the dvr (and tv)
Plug in the power and reboot the box

That worked for me. If it doesn't the other thing you can try to do is have the dvr upconvert everything to 1080i. That assumes your dvr software will allow that. Under Passport you can.

When I had a synching problem with the 8300HD the following worked:

Unplug the power to dvr
Unplug both component and hdmi cables from the dvr
Plug back in only the hdmi cables to the dvr (and tv)
Plug in the power and reboot the box

That worked for me. If it doesn't the other thing you can try to do is have the dvr upconvert everything to 1080i. That assumes your dvr software will allow that. Under Passport you can.

Thanks a bunch... it did the trick.

channel G4 is providing CES 2008 coverage.

Monday, 1/7, 7pm EST, G4 ,CES 2008 first day coverage

Tuesday, 1/8, 7pm EST, G4, CES 2008 second day coverage

Searched through thread and couldn't find this problem:


I was playing around with the settings on my cable box and switched the output format from 1080i to 720p, which immediately resulted in my picture being scrambled. Tried rebooting the cable box with no change.

Ran an HDMI from the box to the TV and can get a normal picture, which enabled me to change the output format back to 720p. Powered off the box, disconnected the HDMI, and tried restarting with the component cables. Now I'm getting no picture whatsoever through components.

Any suggestions?

Searched through thread and couldn't find this problem:


I was playing around with the settings on my cable box and switched the output format from 1080i to 720p, which immediately resulted in my picture being scrambled. Tried rebooting the cable box with no change.

Ran an HDMI from the box to the TV and can get a normal picture, which enabled me to change the output format back to 720p. Powered off the box, disconnected the HDMI, and tried restarting with the component cables. Now I'm getting no picture whatsoever through components.

Any suggestions?


Did you remember to turn off the option for outputting via HDMI?

Did you remember to turn off the option for outputting via HDMI?

How do I do that?

How do I do that?


I'm not in front of my DVR right now, but there was a option for in the advanced settings. Or maybe it was that I had to unplug HDMI before I powered on the DVR. Can't remember. When I get back, I'll see if I can bring up the menu for you.

I have a SA 8300 SD with Passport/Echo 2.6.002 - TWC Akron OH. Does anyone out there know what the small red "lock" icon is that is at the top left hand corner of the channel #611 diagnostic page? Reason I ask is, I have a 500gb hard drive expander installed AND WORKING on my DVR. My daughter has the same DVR and can not get the very same external hard drive to work. The only thing we can find that is differant is, she does not have this "lock" icon on her diag pages???

It means the parental lock is on...

How do I do that?



Sorry, it was the Audio Digital Out (HDMI/DD/2Ch) that I was thinking of

Is there a way to have the DVR pass-through the picture without applying aspect ratio control to non-conforming images? This makes it so that I cannot use the TV's own aspect ratio control.

For example, I select 16:9 widescreen, and if I select pillar boxing, the TV itself can't then stretch it cause it will stretch the pillar boxes too. I want to be able to use the TV's stretch and zoom, and not the DVR's.

Is there a way to have the DVR pass-through the picture without applying aspect ratio control to non-conforming images? This makes it so that I cannot use the TV's own aspect ratio control.

For example, I select 16:9 widescreen, and if I select pillar boxing, the TV itself can't then stretch it cause it will stretch the pillar boxes too. I want to be able to use the TV's stretch and zoom, and not the DVR's.


On SARA I believe there is. Not sure on TWC. Let me check

On SARA I believe there is. Not sure on TWC. Let me checkTWC uses SARA on lots of systems. I'm sure you meant to say "Not sure on Passport."

TWC uses SARA on lots of systems. I'm sure you meant to say "Not sure on Passport."


Yup. I have comcast/Sara in my other house and TWC/Passport...so I tend to use them interchangeably.

The newer TWC/NYC boxes (wasn't the 8300HD - 4XXX something) use Aptiv (I think) that takes like 20minutes to boot up. I couldn't believe how long it took to boot up!

Yeah I have the 8300HD with Passport. I had a newer software called Mystro or something, but it was really buggy and wouldn't initialize and I had to have them swap it out with the Passport one. They said they had a lot of problems getting the newer ones to work.

So there is no way to use my TV's aspect ratio control? That sucks.

Hi All,

I have not used series recording, but understand that you can use the Series Manager in several ways to schedule DVR series recordings. My question is about the series manager:

Suppose that I want to record Price is Right everyday for the 5 day week. After setting it and recording the show, let's say I go under Series Recording Options and under "Episodes to Keep" I select 5. (So as not to clutter up the hard drive.) What happens to the series AFTER those 5 episodes have recorded?

1.) Does the sixth show not record and therefore not show up as scheduled to record in the Guide? OR.

2) Do you have to go to the Series Manager and remove the series from recording more episodes?

3.) Under this system for ANY SERIES, does Passport know what is a first-run or new epside EVEN IF YOU HAVE NOT PROGRAMMED THIS? Or do you have to go further into the Series Recording Options tier and under my example, adjust Episodes to Keep #, and than New Episodes or first-run only?

Jack

Yeah I have the 8300HD with Passport. I had a newer software called Mystro or something, but it was really buggy and wouldn't initialize and I had to have them swap it out with the Passport one. They said they had a lot of problems getting the newer ones to work.

So there is no way to use my TV's aspect ratio control? That sucks.

You might do a search for aspect control in this thread, as it has been discussed several times.

The older version of PASSPORT I used had a button on the remote that changed the aspect control in addition to the settings in the menu. It popped up a little banner and cycled through the selections with repeated presses, and you had to hit EXIT to retire the banner. This tripped me up for a while, as I had inadvertently used the button to select something other than NORMAL and could not understand why the aspect control settings in the menu did not act like the pictures. The button label varied across different remote models. Either # or Aspect (if I remember correctly one of them used the Video Source button for some unknown reason).

Generally:
Source Format -> Output Format Options -> Menu Aspect Controls -> [Remote Aspect Controls] -> TV Aspect Controls.

Assuming you do not like the stretch modes generated in the STB, you might try enabling 480i output and setting the TV type to 4:3, SQUEEZE 16:9. This should send regular 480i without the pillar-bars to the TV - which can then use internal aspect controls to find the stretch you like. Generally, most 16:9 HDTV will still identify the HD format and display the 720p/1080i signals in the correct aspect ratio, or will have the ability to set different defaults for 480i and 720p/1080i.

I had an older version of PASSPORT with a 4:3 CRT using component. I (still) have to manually switch my CRT to WIDE mode when the output changes from 480i/p to 1080i, but it will automatically reset to 4:3 when the output changes from 1080i to 480i/p, which is annoying because there is an analog channel stuck amongst our [limited number of] HD channels here.

Sometimes the cable company head-end settings "help" you by pre-selecting certain options. A couple of folks cannot output anything but 1080i.

Similarly, if you are using HDMI, the negotiations between the 8300 and the TV may "help" you by pre-selecting certain options. Some configurations will let you set anything you want in the 480/720/1080 output options, but display what it decides regardless. Some TV will not accept 480i over the HDMI input. Some TV can accept 480i over HDMI, but do not let the STB know, so the STB will not send 480i output. Etc.

v/r,
C-F

The easiest way to go with PASSPORT is to set: TV Type: 16:9, Setting: Normal picture, Output Format: 1080i only. Then, if you are watching a windowboxed show(letterbox+sidebar) press # to change to Zoom picture.

These are the settings I use. I've found that the picture looks better even on SD when set to 1080i. The only downside is the grey sidebars, but it's not too bad. Still beats stretchovision.

Hi All,

I have not used series recording, but understand that you can use the Series Manager in several ways to schedule DVR series recordings. My question is about the series manager:

Suppose that I want to record Price is Right everyday for the 5 day week. After setting it and recording the show, let's say I go under Series Recording Options and under "Episodes to Keep" I select 5. (So as not to clutter up the hard drive.) What happens to the series AFTER those 5 episodes have recorded?

1.) Does the sixth show not record and therefore not show up as scheduled to record in the Guide? OR.

2) Do you have to go to the Series Manager and remove the series from recording more episodes?

3.) Under this system for ANY SERIES, does Passport know what is a first-run or new epside EVEN IF YOU HAVE NOT PROGRAMMED THIS? Or do you have to go further into the Series Recording Options tier and under my example, adjust Episodes to Keep #, and than New Episodes or first-run only?

Jack


The oldest one will get deleted to make room for the new episode. The default is to do both "new and reruns" but you can change it under the recording options.

The easiest way to go with PASSPORT is to set: TV Type: 16:9, Setting: Normal picture, Output Format: 1080i only. Then, if you are watching a windowboxed show(letterbox+sidebar) press # to change to Zoom picture.

These are the settings I use. I've found that the picture looks better even on SD when set to 1080i. The only downside is the grey sidebars, but it's not too bad. Still beats stretchovision.

I would rather pass through the resolution to the TV, because my TV's scaler will do a better job than the STB.

You might do a search for aspect control in this thread, as it has been discussed several times.

The older version of PASSPORT I used had a button on the remote that changed the aspect control in addition to the settings in the menu. It popped up a little banner and cycled through the selections with repeated presses, and you had to hit EXIT to retire the banner. This tripped me up for a while, as I had inadvertently used the button to select something other than NORMAL and could not understand why the aspect control settings in the menu did not act like the pictures. The button label varied across different remote models. Either # or Aspect (if I remember correctly one of them used the Video Source button for some unknown reason).

Generally:
Source Format -> Output Format Options -> Menu Aspect Controls -> [Remote Aspect Controls] -> TV Aspect Controls.

Assuming you do not like the stretch modes generated in the STB, you might try enabling 480i output and setting the TV type to 4:3, SQUEEZE 16:9. This should send regular 480i without the pillar-bars to the TV - which can then use internal aspect controls to find the stretch you like. Generally, most 16:9 HDTV will still identify the HD format and display the 720p/1080i signals in the correct aspect ratio, or will have the ability to set different defaults for 480i and 720p/1080i.

I had an older version of PASSPORT with a 4:3 CRT using component. I (still) have to manually switch my CRT to WIDE mode when the output changes from 480i/p to 1080i, but it will automatically reset to 4:3 when the output changes from 1080i to 480i/p, which is annoying because there is an analog channel stuck amongst our [limited number of] HD channels here.

Sometimes the cable company head-end settings "help" you by pre-selecting certain options. A couple of folks cannot output anything but 1080i.

Similarly, if you are using HDMI, the negotiations between the 8300 and the TV may "help" you by pre-selecting certain options. Some configurations will let you set anything you want in the 480/720/1080 output options, but display what it decides regardless. Some TV will not accept 480i over the HDMI input. Some TV can accept 480i over HDMI, but do not let the STB know, so the STB will not send 480i output. Etc.

v/r,
C-F


I tried some of your suggestions as well as others who have posted in this thread and cannot for the life of me trick my STB into not touching a 4:3 image before it gets to the TV.

I tried setting to 4:3 and using squeeze. I reset the tuners, checked the remote's aspect control versus the settings aspect control. I at no point was able to deliver a 4:3 image (without STB-inserted gray sidebars that cannot be manipulated) to my JVC that would allow me to use its own stretch or zoom instead of the STB. Think I'm stuck...

I think it's silly that there is no mechanism for passing through non-conforming images and keeping the 4:3 information there so that my JVC can use its aspect ratio.

I guess the only thing left (if you have not already) is to try component to see if you can get it that way.

Which format lamp is lit on the front panel?

I just now have begun using HDMI (knock on wood)... main CRT set did not have it, and the little 26" for RV/Bedroom almost always via OTA/CableCard (no STB).

v/r,
C-F

I'm actually using component right now as I wait for my HDMI cables from monoprice to make it here.

...does Passport know what is a first-run or new epside EVEN IF YOU HAVE NOT PROGRAMMED THIS? Or do you have to go further into the Series Recording Options tier and under my example, adjust Episodes to Keep #, and than New Episodes or first-run only?

Jack

Passport defaults to first run and repeats. One CAN change that to only first run. THAT is dependant on proper guide data, which it mostly is.

When you select a show for series recordings, the dialog to select default to change to first run only automatically pops up.

One CAN also set it for first and repeats with a specific time (think HD runs of BSG on UnHD, none of which are NEW).

I have to add Passport NYC; it could very well be different in a different city even with the same version (no new versions have come about anywhere I'm aware of in a good six months or more).

HTH Jack.

I have a SA8300HDC. I had to restart the dvr due to certain problems. Before the restart, there were about 15 hours worth of programs recorded on the SA8300HDC box. The box holds about 20 hours of HD content. Once restarted, there were no shows in the LIST so I assumed all shows were erased. HOWEVER, now when one hour of content is recorded it uses up 20% of the hard drive and with 5 hours of content the hard drive is 100% full. I assume the previous shows are somewhere on the hard drive but not listed. I would like to either get access to those shows (they do not show up on the list) or completely erase the hard drive. How do i reboot the SA8300HDC? Thanks.

I have a SA8300HDC. I had to restart the dvr due to certain problems. Before the restart, there were about 15 hours worth of programs recorded on the SA8300HDC box. The box holds about 20 hours of HD content. Once restarted, there were no shows in the LIST so I assumed all shows were erased. HOWEVER, now when one hour of content is recorded it uses up 20% of the hard drive and with 5 hours of content the hard drive is 100% full. I assume the previous shows are somewhere on the hard drive but not listed. I would like to either get access to those shows (they do not show up on the list) or completely erase the hard drive. How do i reboot the SA8300HDC? Thanks.


I notice that my 8300HD DVR does this from time to time. Old recorded shows will pop up, or my recorded shows will disappear. Unplugging the unit, then plugging it back in while holding down the power button (until "boot") shows up usually fixes it.

I notice that my 8300HD DVR does this from time to time. Old recorded shows will pop up, or my recorded shows will disappear. Unplugging the unit, then plugging it back in while holding down the power button (until "boot") shows up usually fixes it.

Thanks for the info. I tried this earlier but had no luck. Any other suggestions?

I saw the following from a different section of the forum. Has anyone been able to do this? I push and hold pause on my remote control for a full minute without anything happening.

Last Resort. If for some reason you can't get STB to do what you want and you've rebooted it by unplugging it, etc., this is a "last resort" item - say just before taking unit back, you can try reformatting the HDD. The format operation resets all data on the DVR, including all recordings, preferences and scheduled recordings. It is a "factory fresh" reset.

When doing the format procedure, there are times where it won't always "take" and will have to be redone again. The procedure is to get the mail light blinking from the remote control by holding down the pause button. Once blinking do not press anything else except the page down (page -) button on the remote three times while watching the display. The display should say something like HDD-1 and then HDD-2 or HDD-F. Once on the setting you want (typically the third press) leave it alone and put the remote down. In a few minutes, the DVR will reboot and reformat on it's own. Once complete in about 10 to 15 minutes (depending on RDC and FDC signal level quality) the unit will be available to be turned on, but it's best to leave it off and come back at a later time after it has completely downloaded all of the guide data and info.
Press and hold PAUSE until Mail led is lit.
Press PAGE down or (-), and then press LIST three times.
Turn box off. When turned back on, formatting will begin.

I think you were looking in the SARA thread. I have not seen a post indicating that anyone has "formatted" a PASSPORT version. You might try the other "last resort" method, which is to disconnect the STB from everything for >24 hours (+/- unknown variable time). I thought that a hard reboot (unplug power cable from back/wall, wait ~30 seconds, hold the front panel power button depressed until "boot" appears while re-plugging the power cable) generally allowed the recovery of "lost" HHD space (easy to build if you erase scheduled programs while they are still recording, although both of these may be SARA specific as well).

v/r,
C-F

Thanks for the info. I tried this earlier but had no luck. Any other suggestions?


Mine comes and goes. After a few days or so, it comes back to normal. Good luck!

I have a 8300 HD DVR with Passport...My cable company is Brighthouse Networks in Orlando, FL.

Is there anyway I can change the grey sidebars for SD channels to be black? Why grey in the first place?...its very distracting.

I have tried the various tricks mentioned in this thread but unfortunately my TV (Vizio 47" LCD) is not smart enough to handle it. I was able to set the STB to 4:3 squeeze...which did take out the grey sidebars and my TV would add the black but when I would switch to a HD channel the TV was all messed up and I had to play around with its aspect controls...having to do that every time I switch channels is not really a fix.

I have a 8300 HD DVR with Passport...My cable company is Brighthouse Networks in Orlando, FL.

Is there anyway I can change the grey sidebars for SD channels to be black? Why grey in the first place?...its very distracting.In a word, no, there's nothing in the Passport UI for changing sidebar color. Some people have TVs which can squeeze a 16:9 image into 4:3 with their own black sidebars and use that to get rid of them (using the stretch setting on the DVR). Of course, that setting is actually meant to restore OAR on 16:9 channels where the broadcaster is applying stretch, so it will squeeze real 16:9 stuff as well.

The gray is supposed to lessen the effect of burn-in on CRTs and plasma panels. Of course, most technologies in use today (LCD panels and DLP and LCD projectors) are not subject to burn in.

In a word, no, there's nothing in the Passport UI for changing sidebar color. Some people have TVs which can squeeze a 16:9 image into 4:3 with their own black sidebars and use that to get rid of them (using the stretch setting on the DVR). Of course, that setting is actually meant to restore OAR on 16:9 channels where the broadcaster is applying stretch, so it will squeeze real 16:9 stuff as well.

The gray is supposed to lessen the effect of burn-in on CRTs and plasma panels. Of course, most technologies in use today (LCD panels and DLP and LCD projectors) are not subject to burn in.

Bah, was afraid that was the answer.

Is there an option or a way to have 4:3 channels automatically jump to Zoom 1 in the aspect? The reason I ask is that I watch 4:3 with Zoom 1 and when I switch to HD 16:9, the picture is zoomed, cutting off the borders of the HD screen.

I hate manually adjusting and my TV doesn't handle it.

I would rather pass through the resolution to the TV, because my TV's scaler will do a better job than the STB.

Bingo! My brother is having a similar issue with the Time Warner version of the SA8300 HDC (the HDC sucks big time). His HD channels work great, but when he watches 4:3 standard def content he'd like to use the "stretch modes" built into the TV instead of the ones through the cable box. Unfortunately the cable box seems to try to auto size the picture on its own which negates the use of the TV's stretch modes (which look better than the box's). Is there a way to shut that stupid auto detection off so the he can use the stretch modes built into his TV?

And please, don't bother with the "this has been discussed before" or "use the search function." I haven't found an answer to this after a few hours of searching, and I help people every day who ask the same questions as the previous guy did an hour ago (some people don't have time to read over 200 pages of a forum post...no offense; heck, I've done it before... :D) , so some help would be much appreciated.

In short, how do you stop the Time Warner SA8300 HDC from auto adjusting the standard definition 4:3 content? My brother has a Pioneer 5080HD and wants to use the TV's stretch modes rather than the cable box's.

Thank you.

In short, how do you stop the Time Warner SA8300 HDC from auto adjusting the standard definition 4:3 content? My brother has a Pioneer 5080HD and wants to use the TV's stretch modes rather than the cable box's.If you're using one of the new HDC boxes (8300HDC, 8240HDC, etc) on a TWC system it's very likely to be running Navigator; if it is, no one in this thread may know how to answer your question.

Go to the first post of the SARA thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052) and search the post for "A-B-C"; you'll find a table of labels for the A, B and C remote button functions as they appear at the bottom of various different versions of the interactive program guide (SARA, Passport Echo and Navigator). You can use it to determine what software is running on your box. If it's Navigator, you should ask that question again in the Navigator thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8434087[/URL).

If you're using one of the new HDC boxes (8300HDC, 8240HDC, etc) on a TWC system it's very likely to be running Navigator; if it is, no one in this thread may know how to answer your question.While that is true of TW Passport systems (and this is a Passport thread), it is NOT true of SARA systems (who have so far been sparred from the Navigator debacle).

While that is true of TW Passport systems (and this is a Passport thread), it is NOT true of SARA systems (who have so far been sparred from the Navigator debacle).Yeah--Navigator seems designed to work with the headend software that supports Passport, but not with the stuff for SARA, so when they swap in Navigator on those systems they're going to have to do it all at once--no "sticking their toes in the water" by slowly introducing Navigator on newly distributed boxes. Ugh :rolleyes:.

Thanks for the info/help...but it seems I am stuck with grey-bars.

I have tried every possible combination of settings and although I was able to find a setting which let my TV add black bars...it royally screwed up watching HD 16x9 channels.

I think it would have worked if my TV (Vizio 47" LCD) somehow allowed/remembered different settings per input type (480i,720p, etc) but it does not.

I have started trying to force myself to watch SD channels ZOOMED...much better than stretched and without the stupid distracting grey bars.

I currently have my 8300 set to: 16x9:Zoom 4:3...output format set to ONLY 1080i. My TV's aspect control is set to WIDE. This seems to be the best I can do.

BTW I really hate the UI for the 8300...seems like its 20 years old. But with my cable company its the only option for HD DVR. :(

BTW I really hate the UI for the 8300...seems like its 20 years old. But with my cable company its the only option for HD DVR. :(Did you verify which UI is running on your box by looking at the A-B-C button labels at the bottom of the guide as I suggested a few posts back (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12986124&postcount=7227)? Just curious. The only one of these UI designs which seem truly outdated to me is SARA and that one does have an option for changing the sidebar color :). (I took a look at the documentation available online at Brighthouse's site and it seems that they are principally using Passport Echo, though it's possible that you're using TWC's Navigator if you've recently been issued one of the new Explorer 8xxxHDC boxes).

If you are running Passport and you think that it's bad, then you've got some disappointment coming in the near future. IMHO, it's by far the user-friendliest of these guides, and at some point you will almost certainly be getting TWC's Navigator on your box.

Did you verify which UI is running on your box by looking at the A-B-C button labels at the bottom of the guide as I suggested a few posts back (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12986124&postcount=7227)? Just curious. The only one of these UI designs which seem truly outdated to me is SARA and that one does have an option for changing the sidebar color :). (I took a look at the documentation available online at Brighthouse's site and it seems that they are principally using Passport Echo, though it's possible that you're using TWC's Navigator if you've recently been issued one of the new Explorer 8xxxHDC boxes).

If you are running Passport and you think that it's bad, then you've got some disappointment coming in the near future. IMHO, it's by far the user-friendliest of these guides, and at some point you will almost certainly be getting TWC's Navigator on your box.


Yep, I verified...mine is Passport Echo. I suppose the UI isn't all that bad...its just i hate how simple things like sidebar colors are not a user option...or that the UI/guide does not fill the screen when displayed. Sounds like I should count my blessings. Also, the search seems buggy...I was trying to search for an show called Gametrailers TV on spike tv...to set the DVR to record it and it never came up in search...however if I advanced the guide to the date and time it was on..it was there. Course that might be more BHN fault than the UI software.

My biggest beef is with the sidebars....very distracting and should easily be a user defined thing.

My biggest beef is with the sidebars....very distracting and should easily be a user defined thing.It seems to be a very individual thing. Some people are extremely bugged by grey sidebars and others, like myself, could not give a lesser damn. Probably no one in the team working on Passport was one of the people who care so much about it, or someone would have pushed hard to throw the setting in. The may well have added to Passport Echo 2.7 (they added the oft requested disk-space "fuel gauge"), but few (if any) TWC systems ever upgraded that far, and with Navigator on the horizon, no others are likely to.

If you're using one of the new HDC boxes (8300HDC, 8240HDC, etc) on a TWC system it's very likely to be running Navigator; if it is, no one in this thread may know how to answer your question.

Go to the first post of the SARA thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052) and search the post for "A-B-C"; you'll find a table of labels for the A, B and C remote button functions as they appear at the bottom of various different versions of the interactive program guide (SARA, Passport Echo and Navigator). You can use it to determine what software is running on your box. If it's Navigator, you should ask that question again in the Navigator thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8434087[/URL).
Thank you sir. I'll have to find out what software the box uses the next time I'm at my bros.

Thanks again!

Edit: from the pics it looks like he has Passport, although they don't have pics of Navigator in that thread. So...any suggestions?

Yep, I verified...mine is Passport Echo. I suppose the UI isn't all that bad...its just i hate how simple things like sidebar colors are not a user option...or that the UI/guide does not fill the screen when displayed. Sounds like I should count my blessings. Also, the search seems buggy...I was trying to search for an show called Gametrailers TV on spike tv...to set the DVR to record it and it never came up in search...however if I advanced the guide to the date and time it was on..it was there. Course that might be more BHN fault than the UI software.

My biggest beef is with the sidebars....very distracting and should easily be a user defined thing.


These DVR have a limited amount of memory. Even though there are 7 days of schedules available, only 2-3 days are normally in memory. The seach function seems to only search memory. Before doing a search you should advance the schedule thru the 6 days in the future. If you are lucky your remote has a +Day- button whcih makes moving forward much easier.

Edit: from the pics it looks like he has Passport, although they don't have pics of Navigator in that thread. So...any suggestions?
Look down just a tad from the picture links to where it shows the differences in the A-B-C buttons that are displayed at the bottom of the guide. That's the best way to tell what software is being used. I left the picture links in there, but they aren't the best way to tell anymore.

Look down just a tad from the picture links to where it shows the differences in the A-B-C buttons that are displayed at the bottom of the guide. That's the best way to tell what software is being used. I left the picture links in there, but they aren't the best way to tell anymore.

Thanks.

Sorry about posting here...he has the Navigator software. A big thanks to DoubleDaz for helping me out!

While that is true of TW Passport systems (and this is a Passport thread), it is NOT true of SARA systems (who have so far been sparred from the Navigator debacle).

Have you read one post where someone got a HDC box w/SARA? Or of an HDC box being deployed in a SARA area?

There DOES seem to be a common belief that HDC boxes have the debacle software, but until we actually know of an HDC that does NOT have it, the assumption would probably stand.

BTW I really hate the UI for the 8300...seems like its 20 years old. But with my cable company its the only option for HD DVR. :(

How about a TiVO?

Have you read one post where someone got a HDC box w/SARA? Or of an HDC box being deployed in a SARA area?Not just one post but TONS of posts of HDC boxes being deployed in SARA systems! For example, most of the rest of the very state that you live in has SARA and all new SA boxes being distributed there are "C" models. Come on Riverside_Guy, get out of the city once in awhile - there is a whole other world out there!:cool:

Now, there certainly have been problems (mostly with recordings split into multiple segments - particularly with a sound change from 5.1 to 2.0 and back). I just also read a post where Motorola boxes with CableCARDs are having similar problems. So it sure looks like there are problems here beyond Navigator SW.

How about a TiVO?


I looked into that but way to expensive....once you add up the hardware cost, Tivo subscription cost, Cable company cablecardx2 cost.

I am not entirely sure how Tivo stays in business...considering both Sat and Cable companies pretty much have the same thing for much less $$.

I am not entirely sure how Tivo stays in business...considering both Sat and Cable companies pretty much have the same thing for much less $$.

and with much less $$ comes much less functionality. Passport is fine if you want just an IPG that records with no hardware upgrade possibilities, but it if you want to do more than that ...

And if you are one of the unlucky people who got switched from Passport to Navigator without a choice, then Tivo becomes a much more attractive prospect. Even if it costs more.

Have you read one post where someone got a HDC box w/SARA? Or of an HDC box being deployed in a SARA area?

There DOES seem to be a common belief that HDC boxes have the debacle software, but until we actually know of an HDC that does NOT have it, the assumption would probably stand.Plenty of HDC models with SARA (version 1.90.x.x) out here in Phoenix with Cox.

I looked into that but way to expensive....once you add up the hardware cost, Tivo subscription cost, Cable company cablecardx2 cost.Well, considering that we pay $23/mo for our cable DVR here, a Tivo HD at $300 plus $13/mo service fee and $3/mo cablecard fee isn't really that bad of a deal, especially if you want/need the extra functionality, don't mind dealing with some cablecard hassles, and don't need to replace it in the next 3-4 years before it's actually paid for.

I am not entirely sure how Tivo stays in business...considering both Sat and Cable companies pretty much have the same thing for much less $$.That's an easy one, by suing EchoStar. :D
Seriously though, it will be interesting to see how they do once tru2way devices show up in retail stores to compete with them and cableco supplied hardware/software.

Not just one post but TONS of posts of HDC boxes being deployed in SARA systems! For example, most of the rest of the very state that you live in has SARA and all new SA boxes being distributed there are "C" models. Come on Riverside_Guy, get out of the city once in awhile - there is a whole other world out there!:cool:

Uh, that's why I asked the question! I figured you read SARA threads... I don't. Which is why I haven't read those TONS of posts.

and with much less $$ comes much less functionality. Passport is fine if you want just an IPG that records with no hardware upgrade possibilities, but it if you want to do more than that ...

And if you are one of the unlucky people who got switched from Passport to Navigator without a choice, then Tivo becomes a much more attractive prospect. Even if it costs more.

Quite true EXCEPT the "Passport=no hardware upgrade possibility." TiVo makes you pay for a hardware upgrade while having Passport means cable STB, which means new hardware is free. Example, TiVo subscribers had to buy new boxes for HD, cable STBs came for free. Another example, cable SA STBs are 8300HDs, but there are 8300HDCs that have more RAM. It seems clear the HD boxes eventually will have a crippled version of the already crippling (just thought of a new name to go along with Craptigator, Cripplegator) software to fit into the HDs memory space... so when that day comes, we CAN swap the HD for the HDC box.

I read that TiVo is slowly EOLing their Series 3 800 buck box. Smart move AND it does reduce the cost. I was also concerned about repairs beyond the warranty period, one SHOULD take that into account of doing a financial analysis.

Well, considering that we pay $23/mo for our cable DVR here, a Tivo HD at $300 plus $13/mo service fee and $3/mo cablecard fee isn't really that bad of a deal, especially if you want/need the extra functionality, don't mind dealing with some cablecard hassles, and don't need to replace it in the next 3-4 years before it's actually paid for.

That's an easy one, by suing EchoStar. :D
Seriously though, it will be interesting to see how they do once tru2way devices show up in retail stores to compete with them and cableco supplied hardware/software.

Let's not forget they get license fees from some cable outfits that use their software.

Hard to believe that you pay so much more than we do... and remember, we actually pay MORE than the areas in my city that can get 50% MORE HD channels. How do you figure 23? We pay 10 for DVR service, plus about 7 for a box rental fee (which is the same fee as a non DVR box). Amounts to 17 and change per month.

As for third party DVRs, that was supposed to be what cable cards were all about. BUT the cable guys managed to make cable cards as troublesome as possible so no market COULD emerge. I expect they will keep to this policy, protecting their revenue base. Hell, are ANY new TVs having cable card slots these days?

Another example, cable SA STBs are 8300HDs, but there are 8300HDCs that have more RAM. It seems clear the HD boxes eventually will have a crippled version of the already crippling (just thought of a new name to go along with Craptigator, Cripplegator) software to fit into the HDs memory space... so when that day comes, we CAN swap the HD for the HDC box.They will run the original version, referred to as the "Mystro Digital Navigator", which was written in C or C++ directly on top of PowerTV and the usual SA middleware that Passport uses. The OCAP version of Navigator requires twice the memory to do exactly the same thing because it require the massive OCAP platform (and being rewritten in Java probably didn't help trim its size down any :rolleyes:).

Personally, I like the older version's chances of being less buggy at the core, given that its been worked on the longest. The OCAP version has the the advantage that other interactive crap that he cable companies will offer will run on it. Whether any of this stuff will be anything you want is still up in the air.

The thing about TiVo is that they've made massive feature additions since they released them and continue to do so. Pretty much all of the stuff that they add for the S3 is also added to the S2. The thing gets constantly more powerful, all by itself, without having to trade up for new equipment.

Hell, are ANY new TVs having cable card slots these days?Dude, you are one determined disseminator of FUD. First, there aren't any HDC boxes running SARA anywhere and now there are no CableCARD slots being offered on new model TVs. Sure there are, though some chicken-**** OEMs (like Sony) did abandon them for a couple of model years due to issues like poor cable provider support and the emergence of SDV. This year's line of Mitsubishi's has CableCARD slots, as do some others. I expect a crop of "Tru2Way" televisions with M-Card slots and OCAP platforms to be out by this Fall.

In talking to floor reps at CES2008, concensus seems to be Summer for tru2way STB/DVRs
(& may include MPEG4/IPTV to supplement SDV) and Fall for tru2way iDCR HDTVs....

Presuming all that new headend and OCAP software finally gets squared away....

PS: MPEG4/IPTV is envisioned as replacing MPEG2/SDV since it is 2 to 4 times as efficient.
[So TiVo S3 & DCR HDTVs, even w Tuning Resolver, will (again) not receive some programs.]