Originally posted by hall
2) It's thought at this point that it will only work with a specific Maxtor model.I would rephrase that as "only Maxtor has announced a product designed to work with this feature". We were discussing that product back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5122626#post5122626).

Originally posted by EricScott
I'm thinking of getting an DVD recorder which will be used exclusively to backup shows off my 8300HD. I have the 8300HD connected to my display using HDMI/DVI with 480p/720p/1080i as selected output formats. That frees me up to use the component and/or S-Video out for the DVD recorder.

Has anyone had any success using DVD recorders with the 8300HD? I know passport doesn't have an archive to VCR feature so I'm prepared for a manual process.

I really think I'd prefer a DVD recorder that had a component input since I'm going to be archiving mostly HD and want the best PQ possible. But it seems like most of the recorders with component inputs (Philips makes a few) only accept 480i and my 8300 won't output 480i over component (only 480p and up). Anyone know of recorder that accepts 480p? If not is there a way to force the 8300 to output 480i over component - maybe by putting the box in SD mode (don't even know how to do that)?

Since most of what I record is HD, it is very important that the recorder will preserve the 16:9 aspect ratio. I'm assuming most do this, but I really don't know much about these things.

So anyone have any suggestions? Price is definitely a factor. I don't need a hard drive and could care less about VCR+ and those type of features. I will not even hook the box up to cable out of the wall. Would like to spend around $300.

Any tips for getting these things to work with the 8300? Do you put the box in SD mode? If so how? Do most people use S-Video? If the results over S-Video are good then I'd be ok with that I suppose.

Thanks,
Eric

I've had a Philips DVD recorder/player (Model DVDR 77, with progressive output) for about 1.5 years and have used it successfully with both the 8000HD and the 8300HD. I've used only its S-Video input and its component output. It does correctly display 16:9 content (letterboxed).
With the 8000HD I had to downshift to SD-mode to make recordings. With the 8300HD, of course, I don't need to do that, and I've never tried to downshift the new DVR. The PQ is acceptable and would probably be marginally better using the recorder's component input; that's not an option for me, since I'm using the 8300HD's component output to feed my display.

Has anyone figured out a way to output 16:9 without the gray letterboxing over S-Video on the 8300HD?

I want to use S-Video to archive shows to a DVD recorder, but the gray letterboxing is really annoying. I suppose I can just zoom the recorded image but that degrades PQ and chops off part of the sides.

I haven't fiddled with the different output/aspect ratio settings on the 8300 yet. I currently have it set to "16:9" for TV Type and "4:3 Sidebar" for HD channels and "4:3 Stetch" for SD channels (which I then shrink back to normal on my display to eliminate the gray sidebars). Wondering if you can somehow trick the box into not putting the top and bottom bars over S-Video.

Anyone know how to set the 8300 into "SD Mode"? Will this work?

Thanks,
Eric

EricScott,
No, but if you successfully export anamorphic style SD, please post it.
I have little hope that my wonky aspect ratio controls will allow me to partake, but it really made recording HD to the VCR look good - when I could do that with the Pioneer Voyager 3510HD.

v/r
C-F

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
Please let us know if anyone else actually takes delivery of the 8300 HD in the Cary/Raleigh North Carolina area. Apparently, they are only giving them to new HD customers. I tried calling the new sales department and they said they would deliver it but that they had no way of checking whether it was actually in stock or not.

I got my 8000HD swapped out for a 8300HD on Sunday (2/19). I had called and complained about occasional reboot\lockups on the 8000 before so this was a replacement for a marginally defective unit.

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
Bet you would like to know when TWC Raleigh will get the SA 8300 HD DVR!

The answer is they have them already. Check out this reply email I just got! They are scheduled to swap my 8000HD for an 8300HD on Sunday.
1-800-897-0662

Thanks for the heads up!! I just called TWC and they are swapping my SA8000HD for the newly received SA8300HD on Wednesday in Chapel Hill. I can't wait to have both my DVD recorder (S-Video input) and HDMI working at one time (along with the reported improved PQ).

OK, now seeing the other posts about getting scheduled, but not delivered. I guess I can only wait and see. I'll let you know.

Originally posted by DaveL
I got my 8000HD swapped out for a 8300HD on Sunday (2/19). I had called and complained about occasional reboot\lockups on the 8000 before so this was a replacement for a marginally defective unit.

Have you tried the HDMI output? If yes, does it work?

Originally posted by EricScott
I'm thinking of getting an DVD recorder which will be used exclusively to backup shows off my 8300HD. I have the 8300HD connected to my display using HDMI/DVI with 480p/720p/1080i as selected output formats. That frees me up to use the component and/or S-Video out for the DVD recorder.

Has anyone had any success using DVD recorders with the 8300HD? I know passport doesn't have an archive to VCR feature so I'm prepared for a manual process.

I really think I'd prefer a DVD recorder that had a component input since I'm going to be archiving mostly HD and want the best PQ possible. But it seems like most of the recorders with component inputs (Philips makes a few) only accept 480i and my 8300 won't output 480i over component (only 480p and up). Anyone know of recorder that accepts 480p? If not is there a way to force the 8300 to output 480i over component - maybe by putting the box in SD mode (don't even know how to do that)?

Since most of what I record is HD, it is very important that the recorder will preserve the 16:9 aspect ratio. I'm assuming most do this, but I really don't know much about these things.

So anyone have any suggestions? Price is definitely a factor. I don't need a hard drive and could care less about VCR+ and those type of features. I will not even hook the box up to cable out of the wall. Would like to spend around $300.

Any tips for getting these things to work with the 8300? Do you put the box in SD mode? If so how? Do most people use S-Video? If the results over S-Video are good then I'd be ok with that I suppose.

Thanks,
Eric

I use my DVD recorder much differently than you want, but I thought I'd chime in anyway just to give you some background. I have a JVC DRMV1S combo unit (VCR and DVD player/recorder). I use coax to connect it to the 8300, and PQ is not one of my major concerns. Even so, the PQ is quite good compared to a VCR. The unit cost about $400 at Crutchfield (hardly the cheapest around), and has coax, composite, and svideo inputs. For outputs, it has coax, composite, svideo, and component. I've only made a few DVDR's on it, but so far it seems quite competent. Next week I'll try svideo, but I have no reason to suspect any problems.

-barry

Originally posted by margoba
I use my DVD recorder much differently than you want, but I thought I'd chime in anyway just to give you some background. I have a JVC DRMV1S combo unit (VCR and DVD player/recorder). I use coax to connect it to the 8300, and PQ is not one of my major concerns. Even so, the PQ is quite good compared to a VCR. The unit cost about $400 at Crutchfield (hardly the cheapest around), and has coax, composite, and svideo inputs. For outputs, it has coax, composite, svideo, and component. I've only made a few DVDR's on it, but so far it seems quite competent. Next week I'll try svideo, but I have no reason to suspect any problems.

-barry

Barry,

Thanks for the reply. Quick question? If you use coax from the 8300 to the DVD recorder, is the aspect ratio maintained. In other words, is a 16:9 program letterboxed over coax or does it appear as 16:9 when viewing through the DVD recorder?

With S-Video, the 8300 letterboxes 16:9 with gray bars on the top and bottom of the picture. Pretty annoying to say the least. 4:3 is not altered over S-Video. Tried all of the different aspect ratio and TV type (4:3 vs. 16:9) settings and nothing seemed to have any effect. For example, changing from 16:9 and 4:3 sidebar to 16:9 and 4:3 stretch did nothing on an SD or an HD channel. Even changing to 4:3 (for TV type) and 16:9 zoom did nothing. So it appears that you have no control over aspect ratio whatsoever over S-Video.

If Coax behaves differently, I will definitely consider using instead of S.

Eric

Originally posted by EricScott
Barry,

Thanks for the reply. Quick question? If you use coax from the 8300 to the DVD recorder, is the aspect ratio maintained. In other words, is a 16:9 program letterboxed over coax or does it appear as 16:9 when viewing through the DVD recorder?

With S-Video, the 8300 letterboxes 16:9 with gray bars on the top and bottom of the picture. Pretty annoying to say the least. 4:3 is not altered over S-Video. Tried all of the different aspect ratio and TV type (4:3 vs. 16:9) settings and nothing seemed to have any effect. For example, changing from 16:9 and 4:3 sidebar to 16:9 and 4:3 stretch did nothing on an SD or an HD channel. Even changing to 4:3 (for TV type) and 16:9 zoom did nothing. So it appears that you have no control over aspect ratio whatsoever over S-Video.

If Coax behaves differently, I will definitely consider using instead of S.

Eric

My DVD's are on loan to a friend, so I'm doing this from memory. Unfortunately, the letterboxing exhibits the same behavior that you describe. You can select true zoom on the target TV when playing it back, and get a better representation of the original aspect ratio; however the zooming probably magnifies any PQ deficiencies in the original copying process.

-barry

Seems that you can't output 16:9 over any of the outputs other than component and HDMI on the 8300.

The only solution to the letter boxing that I can think of is to output 480i over component, which maintains the aspect ratio. I an then input this into a DVD recorder with a component input. I know if you disable all output formats other than 480i it will work. But what about flipping the box to SD mode - would that maintain the 16:9 ratio?

Has anyone put the 8300 in "SD Mode". If so how do you do it? And how do you put it back to "HD Mode?"

Originally posted by EricScott

Now if I could figure out a way to output 480i over component (one way would be to disable all output formats other than 480i; maybe flipping the box to SD mode would work) and that maintained the 16:9, then a DVD recorder with a component input could do the trick.

Has anyone put the 8300 in "SD Mode". If so how do you do it? And how do you put it back to "HD Mode?"

Highly unlikely. According to the SA 8300HD manual, which in many respects is irrelevant in our Passport environment, "[w]hen you set up the 8300HD in SD mode, the Y/V connector on the 8300HD is configured as a composite video out connector. . . ." (p. 6) The same idiotic design that the 8000HD has. I've pressed all manner of button combinations on the DVR and still haven't found one that puts it in SD mode.

Well I guess the only way to do it is to fiddle with the output formats. At least you can do that from the remote.

And doing this shouldn't affect anything new that is recording, right? So if I happen to be backing up something (only 480i is selected) and the 8300 tries to record an HD show, will it record in 480i or 1080i/720p? If it won't that could be a problem.

Originally posted by EricScott
Seems that you can't output 16:9 over any of the outputs other than component and HDMI on the 8300.

The only solution to the letter boxing that I can think of is to output 480i over component, which maintains the aspect ratio. I an then input this into a DVD recorder with a component input. I know if you disable all output formats other than 480i it will work. But what about flipping the box to SD mode - would that maintain the 16:9 ratio?

Has anyone put the 8300 in "SD Mode". If so how do you do it? And how do you put it back to "HD Mode?"

I don't know how to put the 8300 into SD mode, but I used to do this frequently to record shows from the 8000, and they were always letterboxed. Boo.

-barry

I just spoke with TW and they are going to install a new 8300HD next Tuesday I mentioned the Audio problem with the HDMI and the said that they are waiting for a software update to fix the 2.1 problem! But didn't have a date for this yet. But he sounded like it was coming soon! Has anyone gotten a fix somewhere else yet?

Not sure if Passport has the same IPG provided by SA, but here is the warning email sent out...
Dear DVR Subscriber,

It has just been brought to our attention that the providers of the program information in your interactive program guide have labeled tonight's and tomorrow's episodes of "American Idol" as re-runs when, in fact, they are first run episodes. So, if you've set up your DVR to record first-run only episodes of American Idol, it will not be recorded tonight or tomorrow night.

To ensure that these episodes are recorded, you will need to manually schedule each of them again by time or by program name for tonight and tomorrow night.

If you have any friends or neighbors who are not members of the Explorer eClub, you might want to let them know about this.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Scientific-Atlanta



vegggas

Got that e-mail too. I saw that my wife already had American Idol being recorded though. Then again, she probably doesn't have it as a "series".

The guide is provided 3rd-party I thought. It's not specific to Passport or SARA. I could be wrong though.

Passport seems to use same guide - in my guide in South Pasadena, CA "American Idol" does not have "NEW" in program description according to 8000 SD. Hopefully, I will be able to get 8300HD replacement tomorrow.

I checked it after getting that e-mail. While it doesn't say "NEW", it also doesn't say "Repeat" either.

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone elses 8300 makes a high pitched sound all the time....I notice it at all times, but my wife doesn't really hear it. I'm one of those people though that can walk into any room and know if a monitor or tv is on, even if the screen is black.....help me out, don't know if I need to swap out this 8300 or not. Thanks....

So here is what I was told about the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD boxes in the Raleigh/Cary Area. Yes the HDMI port is active(The CSR’s were just notified of this over the weekend). Yes the box has the 2.1 audio problem unless your TV has a digital tuner and an optical output. YES they will schedule an appointment to swap your 8000HD out for an 8300HD box. And yes they actually have plenty of these boxes currently in stock. The catch is that they can not guarantee that the truck coming to your house will have an 8300HD box. Basically they were treating the 8000HD as the same thing as the 8300HD so they just gave the boxes out randomly to the truck drivers. They can schedule you to get the box but they won’t know if the driver actually has the 8300 box on his truck until he goes to deliver it. This is a ridiculous policy but it is their policy and they aren’t going to do anything about it. Basically you just have to keep scheduling an appointment until the truck driver has the box on his truck. You might and you might not get the box. I am on their schedule to attempt to get a box this Saturday. If that fails then I will schedule a delivery for the next day, and the next day, and the next day until they get it right. Please let us know if anyone else in the Raleigh/Cary area gets one of these boxes delivered.

On the suggestion of EricScott, I conducted an experiment this morning recording HD content from my 8300HD to my Philips DVDR 77 DVD recorder. By selecting 480i as the only output format, I was able to get the DVR to output 480i over component (something that it won't do in its normal output configuration). I then put the recorder in its "monitor" mode and was able to view all channels in TWCNYC's HD-lineup (except Discovery HD, which seems to be having video problems at the moment). I then successfully recorded about 10 minutes of live and recorded HD content from several channels onto a DVD+R disc, finalized the disc and played it back in my upscaling DVD player set to output 720p.

The result: a properly-scaled 16:9 picture that filled my display's full screen. After all the downscaling, deinterlacing, upscaling and reinterlacing that this process involved, the final image was less than glorious.

Originally posted by Manatus

The result: a properly-scaled 16:9 picture that filled my display's full screen. After all the downscaling, deinterlacing, upscaling and reinterlacing that this process involved, the final image was less than glorious.

Manatus,

Thanks a lot. That's very helpful. I guess "less than glorious" is to be expected but I'd imagine it still beats the PQ of an S-Video recording w/ letterboxing that you have to zoom to get rid of the gray bars?

mpgxsvcd: Schedule your appt for as early as possible in the day, like the day's 1st appt. That will increase your odds of getting the 8300HD, I'd think.

Originally posted by hall
mpgxsvcd: Schedule your appt for as early as possible in the day, like the day's 1st appt. That will increase your odds of getting the 8300HD, I'd think.

You may be able to ask that the installer call you a half-hour before coming to your house to verify that you're going to indeed be home (my TWC office does this). If he does call you, you can ask him directly if he has an 8300HD on his truck, and if not, cancel the appointment.

Yea, I thought of all of that. I scheduled the appointment for the earliest slot in the morning. And they will actually call me the day before and let me know if they have the box or not so I won’t be waiting around for them. It is not the ideal solution but I could not get them to agree to anything else. If anyone else has an easier time getting this DVR please let us know how you did it.

robshdtv how did your setup work with the 8300 does your 5.1 audio work or not? I am going to running the HDMI straight to my set and then a Fiber Optic to my receiver at least that is my plan anyways! Can anyone say that there setup works? I have a Toshiba 34HF84 and I have e-mailed Toshiba to see if the TV accepts and decodes the 5.1 through HDMI but I have yet to hear anything yet!

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
Yea, I thought of all of that. I scheduled the appointment for the earliest slot in the morning. And they will actually call me the day before and let me know if they have the box or not so I won’t be waiting around for them. It is not the ideal solution but I could not get them to agree to anything else. If anyone else has an easier time getting this DVR please let us know how you did it.

Isn't there a drive-in service center nearby where you can just take the old one in and pick up a new one?

Nope TWC actually requires that a truck deliver and setup the HD DVR boxes at your house. I have heard that they require this because they want to make sure the box is setup properly. However, I suspect that they are actually doing it to prevent fraud. These DVRs have to be very expensive and if you could get one over the counter it would be pretty easy to fool the person at the desk into giving you a box for someone else’s account. If they require a truck visit then they at least have an address where they dropped it off. Anyone else have any insight as to why they require a truck visit?

Nope TWC actually requires that a truck deliver and setup the HD DVR boxes at your house Clarify that to *YOUR* TWC requires this. There's a half-dozen New Yorkers in this thread who personally swapped their old boxes for 8300HDs already.... My contact at my local TWC has told me I can swap my 8000HD when they get the 8300HDs.
However, I suspect that they are actually doing it to prevent fraud. These DVRs have to be very expensive and if you could get one over the counter it would be pretty easy to fool the person at the desk into giving you a box for someone else’s account. My local TW allows walk-in swaps. They ask for your phone #, to look up your acct #, and a photo ID. Could you still fool them ?? Yeah, I suppose.... They're NOT doing truck-rolls for fraud-prevention though....

Anyone else have any insight as to why they require a truck visit? Here's a likely one: 1) The boxes are in high-demand and they only want to give them to people with HDTVs. 1a) The boxes have bigger HDDs than the standard DVR, 80gb vs 160gb, so people could use them on their standard TVs just for the add'l storage space. 1b) People think this new-fangled HDTV box can make their old, SD television an HDTV (I guarantee you there are people who believe this).

A tech visit prevents both of those. Now, if I already have an 8000HD, they can safely assume that I have an HDTV. That is, if their policy on HD set-tops is to always require a tech visit the first time. From then out, customer swaps should be allowed.

Originally posted by margoba
Isn't there a drive-in service center nearby where you can just take the old one in and pick up a new one? Yes. In Queens Center.

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
Nope TWC actually requires that a truck deliver and setup the HD DVR boxes at your house. I have heard that they require this because they want to make sure the box is setup properly. However, I suspect that they are actually doing it to prevent fraud. These DVRs have to be very expensive and if you could get one over the counter it would be pretty easy to fool the person at the desk into giving you a box for someone else’s account. If they require a truck visit then they at least have an address where they dropped it off. Anyone else have any insight as to why they require a truck visit? Sounds odd. I've always been able to pick up whatever equipment I need (cable modem, sa8000hd-dvr & sa8300hd-dvr) in person at TW's local office (Albany, NY). I believe a valid driver's license was all I needed to prove my identity.

Originally posted by hall
Clarify that to *YOUR* TWC requires this. There's a half-dozen New Yorkers in this thread who personally swapped their old boxes for 8300HDs already.... My contact at my local TWC has told me I can swap my 8000HD when they get the 8300HDs.
My local TW allows walk-in swaps. They ask for your phone #, to look up your acct #, and a photo ID. Could you still fool them ?? Yeah, I suppose.... They're NOT doing truck-rolls for fraud-prevention though....

Here's a likely one: 1) The boxes are in high-demand and they only want to give them to people with HDTVs. 1a) The boxes have bigger HDDs than the standard DVR, 80gb vs 160gb, so people could use them on their standard TVs just for the add'l storage space. 1b) People think this new-fangled HDTV box can make their old, SD television an HDTV (I guarantee you there are people who believe this).

A tech visit prevents both of those. Now, if I already have an 8000HD, they can safely assume that I have an HDTV. That is, if their policy on HD set-tops is to always require a tech visit the first time. From then out, customer swaps should be allowed.

Your right I forgot to say TWC Raleigh/Cary requires this. I know that they tell everyone that they are verifying you have an HDTV but is that really the sole reason why they require a truck visit at their own expense? Yea I know that the 8300HD can’t make a standard def TV into an HDTV. However, it can allow you to get the HD channels which the standard def boxes can’t. If you get the HD box then you can tune in the HD channels and output the signal over s-video and component cables at a downconverted 480i. Your SD TV can display this and more importantly your computer can record this. Even if you can’t archive the actual HD recording you can archive a really nice 480i version of it. I have tried it and it definitely looks better than any standard def I have seen. And this gives you access to some content that might not be available on the standard def channels.

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
However, it can allow you to get the HD channels which the standard def boxes can’t. If you get the HD box then you can tune in the HD channels and output the signal over s-video and component cables at a downconverted 480i. Your SD TV can display this and more importantly your computer can record this. Even if you can’t archive the actual HD recording you can archive a really nice 480i version of it. I have tried it and it definitely looks better than any standard def I have seen. And this gives you access to some content that might not be available on the standard def channels. I doubt that TW comes up with policies based on "fringe" usage of their equipment.

I only get (2) HD channels, not counting the locals, "in the clear", TNT-HD and Discovery HD. Considering TNT just simulcasts their SD channel with HD material, you're not gaining much. Disc HD is a different story of course, but then again, a standard-def TV wouldn't do it any amount of justice.

The number of people who record television programming on their PCs is a tiny minority of the general population. Sure, when you hang out on the internet and audio/video websites, it seems like "a lot" of people do this, but that's not the norm.

I finally got my 8300HD exchanged for another 8300HD. Hope this one won't have the power problem. I was able to walk into the lobby to exchange. I was told they have no DVR at lobby from tier 1 tech. I was told they only got a few left and they are backordered right now. This was in South Pasadena, CA.

The original one had a build date of 1/25/05 - the new one has a build date of 1/19/05.

I was also told that they will only exchange an HD DVR at the lobby if you currently have an HD DVR already otherwise they will have to send a truck out. The reasoning behind this is to make sure the signal levels are good.

Originally posted by X5-452
robshdtv how did your setup work with the 8300 does your 5.1 audio work or not? I am going to running the HDMI straight to my set and then a Fiber Optic to my receiver at least that is my plan anyways! Can anyone say that there setup works? I have a Toshiba 34HF84 and I have e-mailed Toshiba to see if the TV accepts and decodes the 5.1 through HDMI but I have yet to hear anything yet!

No 5.1 with the HDMI cable and optical to my receiver. If I don't use the HDMI cable then 5.1 works fine. It looks like the current posts here are saying there will be a fix for this which sounds good. I hope TW in Los Angeles pushes this fix out soon. Until then your only hope to get 5.1 out is not to use the HDMI out.

Originally posted by robshdtv
No 5.1 with the HDMI cable and optical to my receiver. If I don't use the HDMI cable then 5.1 works fine. It looks like the current posts here are saying there will be a fix for this which sounds good. I hope TW in Los Angeles pushes this fix out soon. Until then your only hope to get 5.1 out is not to use the HDMI out.

That isn't exactly correct. If you are using a HDMI to DVI adaptor, you will get 5.1 out (or if you use HDMI-DVI then a DVI-HDMI cable if you need HDMI on both ends, but thats really expensive). If you read the last few pages you'll see that the problem is that the HDMI locks on to stereo if your display doesn't support 5.1 and then it won't put out 5.1 via S/PDIF. when you use the DVI adaptor(s) then you are not passing any sound through and the box allows 5.1 passthrough on S/PDIF.

powertoburn-

I'm glad you got a new one and i hope it works! I don't know the build date of mine, but it hasn't died yet! Thats a funny explanation they gave you for the reason for the need for the truck to come out. I can tell you that they definetly did not check my signal strength when they first installed it! :)

Unfortunatly my set up is a straight HDMI cable so I guess that I going to be without 5.1 for awhile! But I think maybe I will just use component for a little while longer. Instead of the HDMI right off the bat. I will most likely try it though! Just to check the picture quality!

The build date is on the bottom of the box.

24 hours later and the box is still working. This one seems much quieter. With the 8000HD sometimes I had to unplug it at night because the harddrive would keep me up.

Originally posted by GrantMeThePower
That isn't exactly correct. If you are using a HDMI to DVI adaptor, you will get 5.1 out (or if you use HDMI-DVI then a DVI-HDMI cable if you need HDMI on both ends, but thats really expensive).

The second part of this statement (in parens.) is not true. People have reported that going HDMI - DVI - HDMI has the same effect as going straight HDMI - HDMI. Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me but a few different people have reported this.

So the only options are HDMI - DVI or Component.

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
So here is what I was told about the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD boxes in the Raleigh/Cary Area. Yes the HDMI port is active(The CSR�s were just notified of this over the weekend). Yes the box has the 2.1 audio problem unless your TV has a digital tuner and an optical output. YES they will schedule an appointment to swap your 8000HD out for an 8300HD box. And yes they actually have plenty of these boxes currently in stock. The catch is that they can not guarantee that the truck coming to your house will have an 8300HD box. Basically they were treating the 8000HD as the same thing as the 8300HD so they just gave the boxes out randomly to the truck drivers. They can schedule you to get the box but they won�t know if the driver actually has the 8300 box on his truck until he goes to deliver it. This is a ridiculous policy but it is their policy and they aren�t going to do anything about it. Basically you just have to keep scheduling an appointment until the truck driver has the box on his truck. You might and you might not get the box. I am on their schedule to attempt to get a box this Saturday. If that fails then I will schedule a delivery for the next day, and the next day, and the next day until they get it right. Please let us know if anyone else in the Raleigh/Cary area gets one of these boxes delivered.

I posted on Monday that I called and TWC scheduled me for a SA8000HD to SA8300HD swap today in Chapel Hill, NC. I got a call from the contractor who TWC uses here that he didn't have an SA8300HD, and why didn't I just go to the local office and swap it. I explained to him that I would love to do just that, but the local policy is that they must deliver it and I also explained that I know from the AVS forum that they are available in this area now. He said he would call his warehouse and give me a call right back. True to his word, he called back in 5 minutes and told me his supervisor was going to the warehouse to pick one up and he would deliver it in an hour. One hour later he was here with box in hand. Good job and thanks to Derick (TWC contractor) for getting this for me with no hassle and a helpful attitude.

Edit:
Unit is brand new with build date of 2/4/2005.

I called Time Warner customer service yesterday and they told me that they 'did' have some 8300hd's in stock (she actually put me on hold to check inventory at my local TW office) and that I could take my 8000HD and walk in for a 'swap'.

Well, the girl in the TW Garden Grove office was perturbed at the TW customer service person who told me that it was ok to walk in for a swap. In fact, they wanted to know the name of the Customer service tech. that told me to do this.

Bottom line, I was there and not leaving without the newer HD DVR box... and I can tell you it was absolutely worth it.

The pq on the 8300 is soooooo much better. Not just on HD but SD as well.

It also automatically stretched the SD content into the 16:9 format. Not just a wide stretch but a zoom stretch that makes it look really nice without cropping too much.

I also love the search feature for looking up a movie to record. This function will make it really easy to find shows that I want to record without having to scroll through the hundreds of music channel's that are listed with a similiar name.

Also, the screen is way faster than the old 8000. Much easier to navigate.

Only played with it for a few minutes but my first thought is 'wow'.

Originally posted by EricScott
The second part of this statement (in parens.) is not true. People have reported that going HDMI - DVI - HDMI has the same effect as going straight HDMI - HDMI. Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me but a few different people have reported this.

So the only options are HDMI - DVI or Component.

Thanks for the correction! It doesn't make sense to me either, but hey, who knows?

Originally posted by GrantMeThePower
That isn't exactly correct. If you are using a HDMI to DVI adaptor, you will get 5.1 out (or if you use HDMI-DVI then a DVI-HDMI cable if you need HDMI on both ends, but thats really expensive). If you read the last few pages you'll see that the problem is that the HDMI locks on to stereo if your display doesn't support 5.1 and then it won't put out 5.1 via S/PDIF. when you use the DVI adaptor(s) then you are not passing any sound through and the box allows 5.1 passthrough on S/PDIF.

powertoburn-

I'm glad you got a new one and i hope it works! I don't know the build date of mine, but it hasn't died yet! Thats a funny explanation they gave you for the reason for the need for the truck to come out. I can tell you that they definetly did not check my signal strength when they first installed it! :)

Well thanks for pointing that out! At least for me the 5.1 through my HDMI connector is not working to my KDF55XS955 so I suppose the tv is not accepting 5.1 through the HDMI cable so my optical to the receiver is being scaled down also. I don't think I'll mess with converting to DVI and back to HDMI if TW or SA can get a fix for this issue and it seems to be a known one. I use my receiver more when watching DVD's so it's not that big an issue at the moment to have 5.1 from my cable box. But it's good to know there is a work around.

Sometimes I find it annoying & irritating that customer service reps over the phone tell you one thing and another happens. It seems different franchise in the same metro area have different policy.

However, things are much better when you reach the local office. Let's see I called to ask if the 8300HD was available - was told not in stock but a service call for installation. Well, reading that GrantMePower got his 8300HD directly from South Pasadena, CA office. I called them and one was put on hold for me to pick up. But, then this box was short lived.

So, talking to customer service on Saturday I am told I can't swap HD DVR box because they are not stocked in local office. That I would have to wait for a service call. My cable modem was getting flaky so I needed a replacement once again the representative told me I had to request the modem online. That I can't walk in and swap.

Being a three day weekend. My local office did not open again until Tuesday. I called up and asked if there was another 8300HD another one was put on hold for me. Then asked about cable modem swap once again another one was put on hold for me. It seems my local office has the stock for exchanges. So my modem got exchanged from the RCA DCM-325 to RCA DCM-425. And I got an email saying for me to go to my local office to pick up modem later on in the day.

But, the South Pasadena, CA office is a showroom compared to the one in Gardena, CA.

I remember when the SA 8000 SD box was slow - it seemed to get a lot faster with the latest update done back in October 2004. The time the update for the 8000HD was pushed out.

Just glad the 8300HD is still working. The previous box must just of been DOA to last less then 24 hours later.

I currently have the 8300HD connected via SVIDEO for SD material - the EXPAND ZOOM on my Sony Set is better then Stretch. And component for the HD. I have not experienced a gitch with audio out from optical jack. With the 8000HD sometimes the sound would stutter.

Anybody??

Originally posted by slickshoes
Hey guys, just wondering if anyone elses 8300 makes a high pitched sound all the time....I notice it at all times, but my wife doesn't really hear it. I'm one of those people though that can walk into any room and know if a monitor or tv is on, even if the screen is black.....help me out, don't know if I need to swap out this 8300 or not. Thanks....

I've never noticed any high pitched sound. But then again, my room has a lot of other ambient noise as well...

My 8300 makes almost no noise. I actually was hooking something up the other day and had my ear right by the think and could barely hear it - certainly not the type of noise you are describing.

Can the 8300 output through Composite and Component simultaneosly?

I'm not really fond of the way that the SA stretches the SD material on my widescreen and I noticed some of you are using S video for SD.

My Sony also does a better job of stretch/zoom than does the cable box.

Originally posted by Hangzen
Can the 8300 output through Composite and Component simultaneosly?

I'm not really fond of the way that the SA stretches the SD material on my widescreen and I noticed some of you are using S video for SD.

My Sony also does a better job of stretch/zoom than does the cable box.

Composite is the one input that can't be output at the same time as the others b/c the physical RCA jack for the composite video is shared by one of the three component video RCA jacks. However you can output component, S-Video, Coax and HDMI at the same time.

Originally posted by Hangzen
Can the 8300 output through Composite and Component simultaneosly?

I'm not really fond of the way that the SA stretches the SD material on my widescreen and I noticed some of you are using S video for SD.

My Sony also does a better job of stretch/zoom than does the cable box.

I have also preferred the screen size adjustments through my set rather than through the 8300. However, when I first got the 8000 and had no choice, I became comfortable viewing SD in 4x3 with gray bars. Now that I finally have the option to switch from HD (component) to SD (S-Video), I haven’t been switching. I’ve been keeping it in component mode for both HD and SD and watching it as broadcast- 16x9 for HD or 4x3 for SD. As bad as the 4x3 with bars looks, I prefer it to an altered picture, regardless of how good my Panasonic’s screen adjustments are.

The only times I find myself switching the screen mode adjustments are the times that a show is letter boxed on a 4x3 SD channel. These are the appropriate times to fill up the screen.

This is also the reason why I never buy any of the On Demand movies. Why watch a movie that was shot in wide screen and then it’s squeezed to a 4x3 format. Then I have to stretch it or zoom it for my 16x9 display? I can’t understand how anyone can view something like this, let alone pay for it. I wait for it to be broadcast on one of the HD channels or pick it up on DVD.

I will add that SD over component looks dramatically better on the 8300HD than it did on the 8000HD. As Larry pointed out, you were forced to watch everything in component on the 8000HD. Now that the 8300 offers you the option to use S-Video, I also prefer just leaving everything on HDMI. Not sure about component, but I know that using HDMI, the 8300 will even remember separate aspect ratio settings for SD vs. HD channels. So I can stretch 4:3 on SD channels and leave it as is on HD channels (doesn't really apply I guess) and the box retains those settings.

That also frees up the S-Video for something like a DVD recorder.

Originally posted by LL3HD
This is also the reason why I never buy any of the On Demand movies. Why watch a movie that was shot in wide screen and then it’s squeezed to a 4x3 format. Then I have to stretch it or zoom it for my 16x9 display? I can’t understand how anyone can view something like this, let alone pay for it. I wait for it to be broadcast on one of the HD channels or pick it up on DVD.

Most of the big releases on MOD are offered in widescreen as well as regular 4:3 to account for this. I was annoyed that HD MOD is a pay service. You have to buy the package and then buy the movie ... ?

They brought out my 8300HD DVR yesterday afternoon. I like it's looks. I can set it to output 480i and 1080i and all analog channels are output at 480i (unlike the 8000 which wanted to output 480p with the same setting) and it outputs 1080i on all digital channels (SD and HD). The format changes and channel changes are much quicker than on the 8000. I saw nothing in the diagnostic screen about firewire except on the Copy Protection page.

Versions:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.8.095
OS Version: PowerTV 6.8.9.4sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: Dec 14 2004
OS Date: Aug 11 2004
PowerKey: PKEY_3.7.5.110-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: Oct 20 2004

I was under the impression that on the 8300 there was a "Record to VCR" option but I don't see it anywhere. I got to a show I recorded, hit select but there's no "Record to VCR" option available.

RE: "Composite is the one input that can't be output at the same time as the others b/c the physical RCA jack for the composite video is shared by one of the three component video RCA jacks. However you can output component, S-Video, Coax and HDMI at the same time."


There is an out2 set of composite jacks, and I'm pretty sure that the main signal is simultaneously output through these jacks. However, when you use PIP, the window picture is output to out2.

-barry

Originally posted by VisionOn
Most of the big releases on MOD are offered in widescreen as well as regular 4:3 to account for this. I was annoyed that HD MOD is a pay service. You have to buy the package and then buy the movie ... ?

Unfortunately, (or maybe not), TWNYC does not yet offer HD movies on demand.

I’m 99% positive that our basic on demand movies are all formatted as that misleading, bogus DVD term- full screen. There is no letter boxed option—but I could be wrong, I haven’t shopped for a pay movie in a long time, too much other good HD stuff to keep up with.

Originally posted by margoba
RE: "Composite is the one input that can't be output at the same time as the others b/c the physical RCA jack for the composite video is shared by one of the three component video RCA jacks. However you can output component, S-Video, Coax and HDMI at the same time."


There is an out2 set of composite jacks, and I'm pretty sure that the main signal is simultaneously output through these jacks. However, when you use PIP, the window picture is output to out2.

-barry

Good point. Forgot about that.

My local TW offers HD On Demand movies, for $3.95/each. The selection is really slim though.... Right now, they have *maybe* (8) movies to pick from.

On the standard Movies on Demand, there are numerous movies to pick from that offer the standard (4:3) format or "wide". As pointed out in another thread here though, it's "wide* for a 4:3 TV still. You'll have bars on the top and bottom (to be expected), but also on the sides ! This applies to people with *widescreen* TVs though, I should clarify.

Originally posted by Daryl L
I was under the impression that on the 8300 there was a "Record to VCR" option but I don't see it anywhere. I got to a show I recorded, hit select but there's no "Record to VCR" option available.

The "Record to VCR" option apparently is a SARA only implemention. The Passport software doesnt have the option. Hopefully that will change.

Is there any way on an 8300 with Passport to make it output 480i on non-HD channels and 1080i on HD channels? When I select both formats I get 1080i on everything. When I select just 480i, I get what my processor says is 480i on every channel. Same thing for just 1080i. I can't think of any reason this should be, but I can't figure out any way around it. I would like to output 480i to my video processor so that it does all of the scaling on SD channels, but I would like the HD channels to output their native resolutions to the processor. Is this the "pass-thru" mode that is missing on Passport versions?

Originally posted by stlblufan
Is there any way on an 8300 with Passport to make it output 480i on non-HD channels and 1080i on HD channels? When I select both formats I get 1080i on everything. When I select just 480i, I get what my processor says is 480i on every channel. Same thing for just 1080i. I can't think of any reason this should be, but I can't figure out any way around it. I would like to output 480i to my video processor so that it does all of the scaling on SD channels, but I would like the HD channels to output their native resolutions to the processor. Is this the "pass-thru" mode that is missing on Passport versions?

With passport, over HDMI and component the only way to get 480i is on purely analog channels (in NYC for example there are virtually none) if all output formats are selected or on all channels if only 480i is chosen as a supported format. Otherwise teh box reverts the next highest resolution for SD digital channels. HD comes in at either 720p or 1080i, depending on whether one or both are selected.

I leave my box on 480p, 720p and 1080i over HDMI (my Samsung display won't accept 480i over HDMI anyway). All SD channels are 480p which look very good and HD comes in as is.

Yes, Passthru is the feature thats needed, like in the regular SA HD boxes.

Originally posted by stlblufan
Is there any way on an 8300 with Passport to make it output 480i on non-HD channels and 1080i on HD channels? When I select both formats I get 1080i on everything. When I select just 480i, I get what my processor says is 480i on every channel. Same thing for just 1080i. I can't think of any reason this should be, but I can't figure out any way around it. I would like to output 480i to my video processor so that it does all of the scaling on SD channels, but I would like the HD channels to output their native resolutions to the processor. Is this the "pass-thru" mode that is missing on Passport versions?

On my SA8300HD on TWC in NC, I automatically receive 480i for analog SD channels (of which there are too many!), 480p for digital SD channels and 1080i for HD channels by selecting 480i, 480p, and 1080i in the output menu (using component cables). If you select 480i and 1080i but not 480p, all the digital SD channels will be upscaled to 1080i, and the analog SD channels will continue to display in 480i.

Yeah--I don't understand this complaint of missing "pass-thru". You tell the box what resolutions your television can do and it switches dyanamically. I tried it and don't use it because my television, a 3 year old CRT RPTV, takes a couple of seconds to switch and the visual effect is not pretty.

BTW, it seems that TWC San Diego just got these boxes. Now, to see if I can get them to come out and exchange mine :).

this may have been noted before, but I haven't seen it myself.

I made an interesting observation the other day on the 8000HD while watching basketball live. i was thinking to myself the SD picture quality looked pretty good on ESPN2. Then i decided to rewind a bit to see a commercial (yeah weird right, who says DVR's stop people from watching commercials?) and when i went back to live, i noticed the picture quality was significantly worse, with lots of encoding artifacts and just generally washed out appearing. At first, i attributed this to the feed suddenly getting worse, but then i changed channels and changed back and suddenly the picture quality was excellent again.

So, here's my theory - when you're watching live TV and have never gone back into the buffer, the SA8000HD is actually outputting the raw live analog feed BEFORE it's been encoded. As soon as you dip into the buffer, it obviously has to display the poorly encoded version. Even if you hit the live button, it still hangs out in the buffer. Changing channels forces it to lose the buffer and hop back to displaying the live unencoded analog feed which looks significantly better. Even ReplayTV (and Tivo as far as I know) don't do this. This is actually quite brilliant and explains the brief blanking of the screen when you first rewind or instant replay to get into the buffer while watching live TV.

Just an interesting observation, as well as motivation not to skip back into the buffer while watching live sports on analog SD channels.

I'm hopefully getting an SA8300HD on Sunday if the cable guy has one on his truck when he gets to my house. Any idea if this feature/quirk works on the 8300HD?

The 8000HD or the 8300HD don't re-encode the data (as I understand). It receives it, stores it, and displays it as-is, in it's RAW format.

hall - i'm referring to analog SD channels, which of course have to be encoded from analog to digital format for storage on the HD. I'm saying the analog is being passed through unmodified under the right circumstances.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Yeah--I don't understand this complaint of missing "pass-thru". You tell the box what resolutions your television can do and it switches dyanamically. I tried it and don't use it because my television, a 3 year old CRT RPTV, takes a couple of seconds to switch and the visual effect is not pretty.

BTW, it seems that TWC San Diego just got these boxes. Now, to see if I can get them to come out and exchange mine :).

The SA8300HD does the switching much more quickly and smoothly. The SA8000HD seemed to go into convulsions switching from 480i/480p to 1080i. The SA8300HD blanks the screen for a second and then displays the picture with the new resolution. I had the SA8000HD for a month and got the SA83000HD this week from TWC, who just started rolling them out in my area (which I learned about through this forum!). The SA8300HD is better in a number of important ways.

Originally posted by mikea28
hall - i'm referring to analog SD channels, which of course have to be encoded from analog to digital format for storage on the HD. I'm saying the analog is being passed through unmodified under the right circumstances.

Great observation. I've verified the same thing on my SA8300HD. For analog SD content, the output is un-encoded 480i if you are playing it live and outside of the buffer (meaning never having gone into the buffer, as in just tuning to the particular channel). As soon as you pause or rewind, it is playing encoded content from the HDD and output in 480p, and looks a lot worse for the transition. Pressing the LIVE button after entering the buffer puts you to the end of the buffer at 480p and still encoded. Changing off the channel and then back puts you back to 480i which looks much better (less processed and digitized). I hadn't made this connection and thought it was just my impression that sometimes the analog SD channels looked better than other times. The SA8300HD displays the output format on the front panel, so you can see the transitions occurring. Very interesting find. Thank you!

Originally posted by mikea28
hall - i'm referring to analog SD channels, which of course have to be encoded from analog to digital format for storage on the HD. I'm saying the analog is being passed through unmodified under the right circumstances. I'm fairly sure that you're always looking at data out of the buffer (well, maybe not while browsing VOD menus, since it gratefully doesn't seem to buffer that). Try this experiment--if you have another television connected directly to your cable, tune it to the same analog channel as your DVR. I'll bet that the sound will not be in synch.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
I'm fairly sure that you're always looking at data out of the buffer (well, maybe not while browsing VOD menus, since it gratefully doesn't seem to buffer that). Try this experiment--if you have another television connected directly to your cable, tune it to the same analog channel as your DVR. I'll bet that the sound will not be in synch.

I thought the same thing, but we're both wrong. I tried your experiment, and the sound is perfectly in sync until you go into the buffer (pause or rewind) and then back to live. Changing off the channel and back again puts it back in synch. When you initially tune the analog SD channel, it is definitely displaying an un-processed/un-buffered signal.

Originally posted by JnC
The "Record to VCR" option apparently is a SARA only implemention. The Passport software doesnt have the option. Hopefully that will change. Thanks JnC.

In my case, it's actually not just the 480i vs 480p thing since I've got my SA8000HD set to always output 1080i (since changing modes takes too long and is quite intrusive). So it's also the lack of encoding and the resultant lack of mpeg encoding artifacts. Good to hear that this still works on the 8300HD.

I too thought it would always play out of the buffer as that's what my ReplayTV did and what I believe Tivo's do as well. Could this be one true inovation from SA? It of course makes perfect sense to do it this way.

I just wish once you hit the live button it would go back to this unprocessed/unencoded true live so that the buffer isn't lost. I haven't tried it yet, but I wonder if this also works when you're actually recording the show. I've only tried it when tuning to random channels.

Interesting find mikea. In NYC, there are virtually no analog SD channels left - certainly none that I watch. So I guess this doesn't really apply to us in NY. Do you still have a lot of analog channels left?

On my TWC lineup in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area, almost all channels below 100 are analog except I think TCM and Disney (which is rebroadcast on a digi-channel above 100). Of the ones we actually watch, WB, USA, ABC Family, and the Comedy Channel are only available on analog:( . It is one of the frustrating things about TWC here.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
On my SA8300HD on TWC in NC, I automatically receive 480i for analog SD channels (of which there are too many!), 480p for digital SD channels and 1080i for HD channels by selecting 480i, 480p, and 1080i in the output menu (using component cables). If you select 480i and 1080i but not 480p, all the digital SD channels will be upscaled to 1080i, and the analog SD channels will continue to display in 480i.

Why does the 8300 output 480p for the digital SD channels? I'm trying to minimize the number of times the picture gets processed. If what you mean is that digital SD channels are (natively) in 480p format and that if you have 480p selected the box sends them through that way without scaling or converting, I'm happy. Is that the case?

Originally posted by EricScott
In NYC, there are virtually no analog SD channels left - certainly none that I watch. So I guess this doesn't really apply to us in NY. Do you still have a lot of analog channels left? Aren't you guys lucky ! We've still got I'd say 50+ channels in analog (2-78 or, but not every slot if used). There's plenty of "good" channels too, like Discovery, History Channel, etc, etc.

Originally posted by stlblufan
Why does the 8300 output 480p for the digital SD channels? I'm trying to minimize the number of times the picture gets processed. If what you mean is that digital SD channels are (natively) in 480p format and that if you have 480p selected the box sends them through that way without scaling or converting, I'm happy. Is that the case?

I not certain if the digital SD channels are 'natively' 480p (although I believe they are), but the answer to your question is yes. I have selected 480i, 480p, and 1080i (Panasonic CRT doesn't accept 720p) as my output formats. The 8300HD automatically outputs 480p for all digital SD channels (as well as ALL SD recordings or buffered programming), 480i for analog SD channels (except when viewing through the buffer), and 1080i for all HD. So whether the digital SD channels are natively 480p or not, the 8300HD treats them as such. This goes back to the pass-thru question a few threads back. The 8300HD seems to pass-thru the native format, as long as you have enabled it in the settings.

How is your set connected to your box. I seem to remember reading that with an HDMI (or HDMI/DVI) connection, the 8300HD converts all 480 signals to 480p.

-barry

Originally posted by hall
Aren't you guys lucky ! We've still got I'd say 50+ channels in analog (2-78 or, but not every slot if used). There's plenty of "good" channels too, like Discovery, History Channel, etc, etc. Same situation here, though it's closer to 70 analogs. The entire expanded basic package is analog (save for the rebroadcast DTV channels, which have to be part of the basic-basic package)--they don't want to force people to take a box to take that step up, which costs them $35/month. Many people just don't want to deal with an STB under any circumstance, but they want more than the crappy 20 channels that they get with the $11.20/month basic (the locals, WGN, TBS, the CSPANs, a country music video channel and a bunch of community access).

Here, the channels include Sci-Fi, Discovery, USA, A&E, ESPN, ESPN2, etc, etc. There are three digital tiers that aren't premium--the Variety Pak (Discovery tier, Learning Channel tier, History Channel tier, several kid's channels, MTV2, WAM, G4, assorted junk), the Sports Pak (more ESPN channels and 3 or four Fox Sports World channels, Golf, Speed, Tennis, etc) and the Movie Pak (Encore, Independent Film or Sundance--one is in the Variety Pak). There's also ¡Mas Latino!

They make various "DiGiPiC" packages, where you take expanded basic (aka "Advantage Service") plus none, one, two or three of the digital Paks with none, one, two or all of the premium cable channels. If you have a DiGiPiC package you get a discount on some ala carte items, like DVR service. To have a DiGiPiC package, you have to take a digital STB, though you don't have to take any digital programming (gives you access to the music channels and makes sure that you have access to impulse PPV and VOD, big money-makers).

Originally posted by margoba
How is your set connected to your box. I seem to remember reading that with an HDMI (or HDMI/DVI) connection, the 8300HD converts all 480 signals to 480p.

-barry

Good point. I should have clarified that all of my info is based on Component connection. Haven't received my HDMI to DVI cable yet.

I guess in NYC they have no qualms about forcing you to take a box ;) I guess it is a good thing that we have more digital channels but given how much I watch the HD channels, I personally would prefer that they didn't scramble virtually all the channels so I could get the Extended Basic channels out of the wall. I have my old Tivo hooked up directly to the wall and I basically get the networks, the Food channels and a few others.

Originally posted by EricScott
I guess in NYC they have no qualms about forcing you to take a box ;) So in NYC, there is NO cable package available that doesn't require a set-top box ??

Actually, nevermind. I found their package listing page: http://www2.twcnyc.com/index2.cfm?c=dtv/pk_pr

The lowest-cost package is "Basic Service" for $19.63/month. And yes, it comes with a box:

Includes Time Warner Cable's exclusive news channel NY1, broadcast, municipal and public access stations, 1 cable box and 1 remote.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
I'm fairly sure that you're always looking at data out of the buffer (well, maybe not while browsing VOD menus, since it gratefully doesn't seem to buffer that). Try this experiment--if you have another television connected directly to your cable, tune it to the same analog channel as your DVR. I'll bet that the sound will not be in synch.
I have to agree with you, Michael. Here's why, two confirmations of your supposition. 1. I have a TV card in my PC in the den where my 8300 is connected and if I watch the PC TV the 8300 is about 5 seconds behind which means I can't have both on at the same time. 2. If I leave my kitchen where I have a 13" TV and walk downstairs to the den I don't miss anything from the show that's on, by the time I walk the 30' from one room to the other the show's at the same point.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
On my SA8300HD on TWC in NC, I automatically receive 480i for analog SD channels (of which there are too many!), 480p for digital SD channels and 1080i for HD channels by selecting 480i, 480p, and 1080i in the output menu (using component cables). If you select 480i and 1080i but not 480p, all the digital SD channels will be upscaled to 1080i, and the analog SD channels will continue to display in 480i.

I had exact the same problem as stlblufan with the SA8000HD

Originally posted by stlblufan
Is there any way on an 8300 with Passport to make it output 480i on non-HD channels and 1080i on HD channels? When I select both formats I get 1080i on everything. When I select just 480i, I get what my processor says is 480i on every channel. Same thing for just 1080i. I can't think of any reason this should be, but I can't figure out any way around it. I would like to output 480i to my video processor so that it does all of the scaling on SD channels, but I would like the HD channels to output their native resolutions to the processor. Is this the "pass-thru" mode that is missing on Passport versions?

It would never output in 480I over a component video connection. 480I was automatically upconverted to 480P, 720P or 1080I depending on which was selected. It would only output 480I if that was the only resolution enabled. Just like stlblufan, I need a 480I signal out of the box when the original signal is 480I. So we have some users who say that 480I with component connections is possible with the SA 8300HD and others who say that they can not get it to work. I opted to keep my non-DVR Pioneer box because of this so I am really interested in whether or not the issue is resolved. For those of you who can get 480I out of the box what is your configuration? What formats do you have enabled, and how are you connecting the box to your display?

Originally posted by Bookworm
I have to agree with you, Michael. Here's why, two confirmations of your supposition. 1. I have a TV card in my PC in the den where my 8300 is connected and if I watch the PC TV the 8300 is about 5 seconds behind which means I can't have both on at the same time. 2. If I leave my kitchen where I have a 13" TV and walk downstairs to the den I don't miss anything from the show that's on, by the time I walk the 30' from one room to the other the show's at the same point.

When you first tune to a channel, it is not running through the buffer. As soon as you pause, rewind, etc., you are dumped into the buffer and begin seeing buffered video with the noted delay - even after you press the "LIVE" button. I did the same test as you, and the other set is completely in sych until you use the play controls. By tuning off the channel, then back again, you lose the buffer, and are in synch again with "live" signals from the wall jack. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for your SA8000/8300.

Originally posted by Elrond

It would never output in 480I over a component video connection. 480I was automatically upconverted to 480P, 720P or 1080I depending on which was selected. It would only output 480I if that was the only resolution enabled. Just like stlblufan, I need a 480I signal out of the box when the original signal is 480I. So we have some users who say that 480I with component connections is possible with the SA 8300HD and others who say that they can not get it to work. I opted to keep my non-DVR Pioneer box because of this so I am really interested in whether or not the issue is resolved. For those of you who can get 480I out of the box what is your configuration? What formats do you have enabled, and how are you connecting the box to your display?

I think I can answer this for the SA8300HD when using Component cables.

The SA8300HD will output 480i when multiple output formats are selected under one limited circumstance. I have 480i, 480p, and 1080i selected. All analog SD channels will display in 480i when INITIALLY tuned. All digital SD channels will display in 480p, and HD channels will display in 1080i. The trick and limited usefulness of 480i is that as soon as you use any of the DVR play controls (rewind, pause, fast forward, etc.), the SA8300HD begins displaying from the HDD buffer, which appears to always output in 480p or higher for all SD programs, so in this configuration the 480i is switched to 480p. By tuning off and then back to the channel, it will revert back to 480i, until you use any of the play controls. All recorded shows, including analog SD, display in 480p.

If I select only 480i and 1080i output formats, analog SD channels initially display in 480i, but switch to 1080i as soon as you use any of the DVR play controls and digital SD channels and all recordings are always upconverted to 1080i.

You can of course select only 480i as the output format, and everything is output in 480i just like on the SA8000HD.

Originally posted by robshdtv
Well thanks for pointing that out! At least for me the 5.1 through my HDMI connector is not working to my KDF55XS955 so I suppose the tv is not accepting 5.1 through the HDMI cable so my optical to the receiver is being scaled down also. I don't think I'll mess with converting to DVI and back to HDMI if TW or SA can get a fix for this issue and it seems to be a known one. I use my receiver more when watching DVD's so it's not that big an issue at the moment to have 5.1 from my cable box. But it's good to know there is a work around.

Rob, I have the same Sony, TWC and SA8300HD. I just added the HDMI cable and encountered what appears to be the same problem (I think).

I'm not getting any audio from the Sony via optical to the receiver after going HDMI from TWC STB to Sony. I believe its because the TWC/SA combo feeds analog, which then silences the Sony's audio out.

I'm curious what you're work around is. Here's mine:

Component from TWC STB to Sony, with Coax to receiver for DD 5.1
HDMI (too) from TWC STB to Sony, no optical out, use same coax to receiver, but get only PLII.

This does give me the ability to shut off the receiver and use the Sony built in speakers, too.

That's the best config I can think of. Comments are welcomed.

Thanks

Originally posted by ChrisFix
I think I can answer this for the SA8300HD when using Component cables.

The SA8300HD will output 480i when multiple output formats are selected under one limited circumstance. I have 480i, 480p, and 1080i selected. All analog SD channels will display in 480i when INITIALLY tuned. All digital SD channels will display in 480p, and HD channels will display in 1080i. The trick and limited usefulness of 480i is that as soon as you use any of the DVR play controls (rewind, pause, fast forward, etc.), the SA8300HD begins displaying from the HDD buffer, which appears to always output in 480p or higher for all SD programs, so in this configuration the 480i is switched to 480p. By tuning off and then back to the channel, it will revert back to 480i, until you use any of the play controls. All recorded shows, including analog SD, display in 480p.

If I select only 480i and 1080i output formats, analog SD channels initially display in 480i, but switch to 1080i as soon as you use any of the DVR play controls and digital SD channels and all recordings are always upconverted to 1080i.

You can of course select only 480i as the output format, and everything is output in 480i just like on the SA8000HD.

Chris:

Thanks for the excellent explanation of what's going on with the SA 8300HD (and presumably the SA 8000HD). I know that when I first turned on the unit I would see a 480i channel in 480i but I never could get it back to 480i once I switched channels. I was really hoping the SA 8300HD had better 480i display capability. It looks like I'm still stuck with the Pioneer.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
I think I can answer this for the SA8300HD when using Component cables.

The SA8300HD will output 480i when multiple output formats are selected under one limited circumstance. I have 480i, 480p, and 1080i selected. All analog SD channels will display in 480i when INITIALLY tuned. All digital SD channels will display in 480p, and HD channels will display in 1080i. The trick and limited usefulness of 480i is that as soon as you use any of the DVR play controls (rewind, pause, fast forward, etc.), the SA8300HD begins displaying from the HDD buffer, which appears to always output in 480p or higher for all SD programs, so in this configuration the 480i is switched to 480p. By tuning off and then back to the channel, it will revert back to 480i, until you use any of the play controls. All recorded shows, including analog SD, display in 480p.

If I select only 480i and 1080i output formats, analog SD channels initially display in 480i, but switch to 1080i as soon as you use any of the DVR play controls and digital SD channels and all recordings are always upconverted to 1080i.

You can of course select only 480i as the output format, and everything is output in 480i just like on the SA8000HD. I get the exact same results over component output with my 8300.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
When you first tune to a channel, it is not running through the buffer. As soon as you pause, rewind, etc., you are dumped into the buffer and begin seeing buffered video with the noted delay - even after you press the "LIVE" button. I did the same test as you, and the other set is completely in sych until you use the play controls. By tuning off the channel, then back again, you lose the buffer, and are in synch again with "live" signals from the wall jack. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for your SA8000/8300. Okay--I tried my own experiment this morning and you were right. I came to this conclusion when I was watching the news over breakfast one morning and went up to my bedroom to finish getting ready to leave without turning off the television, turned on the television in my bedroom to continue listening to the program and heard it out of synch.

Elrond,

Why don't you use the composite out of the 8300 going to a separate input on your TV, rather than have to keep an extra HD set top box around? The picture is ok for SD material using the composite out.

Dave

Originally posted by dave1216
Elrond, Why don't you use the composite out of the 8300 going to a separate input on your TV, rather than have to keep an extra HD set top box around? The picture is ok for SD material using the composite out.

I was going to suggest the exact same thing. This is how i had my Pioneer 3510HD connected because the SD channels all looked fuzzy through the component input but looked great through the composite input so i simply left both inputs connected. However when i replaced the 3510HD with an 8000HD some months back i lost the ability to connect it this way but it doesn't matter because i also have my old regular SD SA8000 next to it and watch all my SD through that one instead, and i only watch HD on my 8000HD.

If i were to have only have one DVR, i'd want it to be the 8300HD and i'd have it connected exactly like i did with the 3510HD so i could watch SD and HD on their own separate inputs.

I got both of my 8300's swapped out this morning. PQ is noticeably better. Searches can spell names. Keywords can be used. AND for those of us using one of these on a SD TV no more manual putting into SD mode :)

There seems to be no way to set the video to passthrough with the Passport software. Is this really true?

Originally posted by dave1216
Elrond,

Why don't you use the composite out of the 8300 going to a separate input on your TV, rather than have to keep an extra HD set top box around? The picture is ok for SD material using the composite out.

Dave

Unfortunately, my television (Zenith Pro 895X FP CRT) is not as smart as yours. It uses an on screen menu to switch inputs or change display aspect ratios. I have macros recorded in my home theater remote to do both tasks but there is no way to "anchor" them. So if I accidentally hit the same button twice or go into the menu system and change something else then things get all out of whack. Its a big nuisance to manually switch back and forth, especially if I am watching a SD channel at the same time as an HD channel. I usually catch up on another game, etc. during commercials. I understand that it is a limitation of my display that is causing the problem but things work quite nicely with the Pioneer box (except for the inability to record) and, given the prices of a replacement, I don't see myself getting a new projector anytime soon.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
When you first tune to a channel, it is not running through the buffer. As soon as you pause, rewind, etc., you are dumped into the buffer and begin seeing buffered video with the noted delay - even after you press the "LIVE" button. I did the same test as you, and the other set is completely in sych until you use the play controls. By tuning off the channel, then back again, you lose the buffer, and are in synch again with "live" signals from the wall jack. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for your SA8000/8300. I played around with this and you're right except in one situation. When I tune my PC TV to channel 6 which is NBC analog and tune my DVR to 220 which is the NBC digital channel they're out of sync. Neither my PC or my kitchen TV are capable of tuning any channels higher than 99 so that means they can't tune to the digital HD channels that I use for the networks, NBC, ABC, etc. I've got it on FX, channel 45 here, watching the race and there's a very slight delay which gives a slight echo effect.:)

Originally posted by IamtheWolf
Rob, I have the same Sony, TWC and SA8300HD. I just added the HDMI cable and encountered what appears to be the same problem (I think).

I'm not getting any audio from the Sony via optical to the receiver after going HDMI from TWC STB to Sony. I believe its because the TWC/SA combo feeds analog, which then silences the Sony's audio out.

I'm curious what you're work around is. Here's mine:

Component from TWC STB to Sony, with Coax to receiver for DD 5.1
HDMI (too) from TWC STB to Sony, no optical out, use same coax to receiver, but get only PLII.

This does give me the ability to shut off the receiver and use the Sony built in speakers, too.

That's the best config I can think of. Comments are welcomed.

Thanks

For now I just have my HDMI cable going to the TV and the optical out of the 8300 into my receiver. I have read that if you use a DVI cable in between the HDMI, in other words HDMI out of the 8300 to DVI cable, then back to HDMI, you can trick the box in to putting out 5.1 through the optical. For the moment I'm content with not using my receiver when I'm watching cable.

Your solution seems to work too so that's about the only 2 work arounds I have heard of. I guess I can wait until TW or SA addresses this for now.

Or....I could also borrow some DVI cables from a buddy and try that HDMI to DVI to HDMI trick and let you know what happens..... someone else posted this earlier in the thread. Could someone confirm if this actually works?

Originally posted by robshdtv
For now I just have my HDMI cable going to the TV and the optical out of the 8300 into my receiver. I have read that if you use a DVI cable in between the HDMI, in other words HDMI out of the 8300 to DVI cable, then back to HDMI, you can trick the box in to putting out 5.1 through the optical. For the moment I'm content with not using my receiver when I'm watching cable.

Your solution seems to work too so that's about the only 2 work arounds I have heard of. I guess I can wait until TW or SA addresses this for now.

Or....I could also borrow some DVI cables from a buddy and try that HDMI to DVI to HDMI trick and let you know what happens..... someone else posted this earlier in the thread. Could someone confirm if this actually works?

I just received my 8300 in Cary NC today and I have the 55" Sony WF655 TV. I got the HDMI hooked up and I am not able to get DD through HDMI even with the optical out of my TV. I guess we will have to wait for the fix!

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
I just received my 8300 in Cary NC today and I have the 55" Sony WF655 TV. I got the HDMI hooked up and I am not able to get DD through HDMI even with the optical out of my TV. I guess we will have to wait for the fix!

Since posting my request I've spoken with TWC, who advise that a firmware upgrade from SA is being requested here in Raleigh (as I see its been done elsewhere, e.g. Texas).

The firmware should be pushed out to us by TWC, which would then enable the optical, coax and HDMI ports on the SA8300HD to deliver DD 5.1. This is described in the SA User Guide, by using the settings to select Audio: Digital Out. You won't see it unless TWC enables it, which explains why some of us do, and others don't.

I'll use my work-around configuration until then.

Hello SA8300HD users,
Can anyone tell me if they have HDMI to DVI hooked up, and if so, can you receive Dolby 5.1 sound through the optical (or coax) digital outputs of the 8300? I've read a number of threads on the HDMI and 5.1 DD incompatibility, but am unclear if this configuration (HDMI to DVI) does work on all 8300's or is it firmware dependent. I'm in the Raleigh/Durham TWC area, so if any of my neighbors have this configuration it would be especially helpful. I'm expecting my HDMI to DVI cable from BetterCables to be delivered tomorrow, and would like to know what to expect when I hook it up.

I'm afraid I can only answer half your question. I have an HDMI to DVI connection working fine on my 8300HD (TWCNYC), but I do not use digital audio at all.

-barry

Originally posted by ChrisFix
Hello SA8300HD users,
Can anyone tell me if they have HDMI to DVI hooked up, and if so, can you receive Dolby 5.1 sound through the optical (or coax) digital outputs of the 8300? I've read a number of threads on the HDMI and 5.1 DD incompatibility, but am unclear if this configuration (HDMI to DVI) does work on all 8300's or is it firmware dependent. I'm in the Raleigh/Durham TWC area, so if any of my neighbors have this configuration it would be especially helpful. I'm expecting my HDMI to DVI cable from BetterCables to be delivered tomorrow, and would like to know what to expect when I hook it up.

I would expect that you will not get DD 5.1 out until the firmware I've posted about is made available by TWC. Yes, my set-up is HDMI-to-HDMI so its not identical. I do believe that once you use the HDMI out on the box you'll get 2 channel and not DD 5.1. Info is available at the SA site in the User manual.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
Hello SA8300HD users,
Can anyone tell me if they have HDMI to DVI hooked up, and if so, can you receive Dolby 5.1 sound through the optical (or coax) digital outputs of the 8300? I've read a number of threads on the HDMI and 5.1 DD incompatibility, but am unclear if this configuration (HDMI to DVI) does work on all 8300's or is it firmware dependent. I'm in the Raleigh/Durham TWC area, so if any of my neighbors have this configuration it would be especially helpful. I'm expecting my HDMI to DVI cable from BetterCables to be delivered tomorrow, and would like to know what to expect when I hook it up.

Your basic question has been asked and answered repeatedly in various threads; so I'll be brief in answering it here. With the current version(s) of the Passport Echo software, the 8300HD will deliver DD 5.1 over both coax and optical audio outputs if the DVR-to-display connection is HDMI --> DVI but not if it's HDMI --> HDMI.

Looks like the 8300HD's have just been made available in the Milwaukee, WI area. I'll be picking mine up tomorrow.

wrong forum

HEY MARK STRUBE

HOW DID YOU FIND OUT THAT TMC IN MILWAUKEE HAS THE 8300HD. I HAVE CALLING THEM ON A WEEKLY BASIS AND THEY KEEP TELLING ME IT WILL BE A LONG TIME BEFORE THEY COME IN THIS AREA. DO YOU KNOW IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE ALL THE OUTPUTS ACTIVATED. I AM INTERESTED IN TRYING TO RECORD OFF THE DVR ONTO A VCR TAPE OR DVD. I HAVE THE 8000HD AND THE VCR ARCHIVE IS NOT ACTIVATED. THANKS

First of all, turn your caps lock off... wow.

All you have to do is call the local office. Do not call TWC's customer service number, do a little digging, find the number that will put you thru to the office location itself (Mayfair website, hint hint) and ask them. I think I might've picked up one of the last ones from the latest shipment this morning, so it could be anywhere between a day or a few weeks before they get more. Give them a call. HDMI and all the other outputs (except for firewire & usb) are active, and the picture quality is very noticeably better even thru component. Good luck!

Hi everyone Time Warner came yesterday at about 8:30 after I had to clean off the whole entertainment center so that they could get behind it like they always do! But the installer gets to the door and says O I just wanted to let you know that we don't have any 8300's. I was like Thanks I took half a day off for you to come to my door and tell me that. I don't understand why they couldn't have called the day before! But I called Customer Service and got a great Rep on the phone and he applogized for the mix up and the did some research and found out that they are getting a shippment in at the beginning of next week and assured me that the disbatch supervisor is going to put one aside for my appointment next week!! I was told that the 8300 in my area is only available to exixting customers! So I would assume if you have an appointment that they set a box aside for the customers that request it! But O well! Hopefully they will next week like they said!

Hi all,

I have an Sharp Aquos 26'' LCD. According to the specs of the TV, it says:

"Wide XGA (1366 x 768) Resolution

displays HDTV program images in 720p and is compatible with off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts (separate HDTV tuner/decoder required to display HDTV broadcasts)."

If I enable all resolutions on the SA8300, then HD channels come in at 1080i, and on my TV it says the feed is 1080i. But, shouldn't my TV convert this signal to 720p? Is it better to leave it at 1080i, even though my tv doesn't have that much resolution, or change the options on the HD box to force 720p output?

Both look amazing, so I can't really tell by eye, but just wanted to make sure :)

yOriginally posted by Dermot81
If I enable all resolutions on the SA8300, then HD channels come in at 1080i, and on my TV it says the feed is 1080i. But, shouldn't my TV convert this signal to 720p? Is it better to leave it at 1080i, even though my tv doesn't have that much resolution, or change the options on the HD box to force 720p output?

Both look amazing, so I can't really tell by eye, but just wanted to make sure :)

Your TV converts all incoming signals (not just HD) to 720p. By configuring the 8300HD to output all formats, unchanged, your TV will perform any necessary conversions. Many people favor this approach. Others prefer to have the 8300HD do one or more of the conversions. Each viewer needs to figure out which works best for him/her. BTW, most but not all HD channels are 1080i; a few, including ABC, broadcast 720p.

It all depends on your TV. Most people will tell you to use either the input video’s native format or the native format of your TV. However, you can not convert the video to 768p before it gets to your TV so you have to try 720p or 1080i. Some stations are 1080i(CBS, INHD, HDNET) and others are 720p(Fox, ESPN, ABC, NBC I think?) Some TVs like my Sony do very well with 1080i even though its native resolution is 788p. Just record the HDNET test pattern on Tuesday mornings at 8:00 AM EST and then play it back at 720p and then try 1080i. There is a resolution screen that is a good test for which one looks better. 1080i just rules on my TV. Yours maybe different.

I just used the HDNET resolution test pattern for the exact reason you described mpgxsvcd. For my TV (Samsung DLP, 720P) it was best to pass the 1080i through and let the TV deinterlace/scale to 720P. Guess the Samsung deinterlacer/scaler is better than what is in the SA8300HD.

I've heard some people prefer to have the conversion done in the cable box (ie. prior to any D/A-->component cables-->A/D steps) because that deinterlacer/scaler has the cleanest data to work with. But in my case this sure wasn't an advantage judging by the HDNET test pattern. So I let the TV do the 1080i-->720P conversion.

Like you said, just gotta try each way and pick what looks best to you on your equipment.

Sooke

Ah I see, will be setting my DVR to record that test pattern tonight, thanks for the tips :)

Odds are, the scaler in most TVs will be better than what the SA box can do.

A friend of mine just got his malfunctioning 8000HD swapped out for a new 8300HD, but the new 8300HD is not buffering live TV the way his old 8000HD did. He cannot pause or rewind live TV even if he's been on the same channel for 30 minutes. It has the new Passport software with the alphabetic keypad search but i presume it should still buffer live TV so he can pause and rewind, but he says it's not working. Is there some new trick to get it to buffer live TV? If not then i think the DVR is bad right out of the box. I only have an 8000HD so i can't check this myself so i'm hoping you guys can tell me if the buffer should work like on the 8000HD. I presume that it should work at the same.

He does report that SD and HD look much better than it did with the 8000HD. He's using it with a Zenith HD Plasma. Thanks !

Originally posted by RandyWalters
A friend of mine just got his malfunctioning 8000HD swapped out for a new 8300HD, but the new 8300HD is not buffering live TV the way his old 8000HD did. He cannot pause or rewind live TV even if he's been on the same channel for 30 minutes. It has the new Passport software with the alphabetic keypad search but i presume it should still buffer live TV so he can pause and rewind, but he says it's not working. Is there some new trick to get it to buffer live TV? If not then i think the DVR is bad right out of the box. I only have an 8000HD so i can't check this myself so i'm hoping you guys can tell me if the buffer should work like on the 8000HD. I presume that it should work at the same.

He does report that SD and HD look much better than it did with the 8000HD. He's using it with a Zenith HD Plasma. Thanks !

Randy,
I recently upgraded from the 8000HD to the 8300HD and as far as the live TV buffer goes, they work the same. Something I wrote about a few days ago was that when you initially tune to a channel you are not actually viewing it through the buffer, but as soon as you hit RW, Pause, etc., you are put into, and are viewing the buffer which works exactly like you are familiar with on your 8000HD. He is certain that he is viewing through the 8300HD, and not a pre-box splitter signal? If it is video from the 8300HD then it does indeed sound like a bad unit.

I just swapped out my 8000 for an 8300, and I am able to pause and rewind live TV. One thing I did notice, though -- I picked up the box from Time Warner's office in person. Even though the attendant said she activated the box for me while I was standing there, I wasn't receiving GUIDE updates ("NO PROGRAM DATA") and wasn't able to schedule DVR recordings until I called Time Warner and complained. While I was on the phone, the support guy flipped a switch while I rebooted the box, and everything works now.

Perhaps your friend's box hasn't been completely activated yet?

Originally posted by RandyWalters
A friend of mine just got his malfunctioning 8000HD swapped out for a new 8300HD, but the new 8300HD is not buffering live ...
No such problem here. My old 8000 did that from time-to-time, but I could never figure out what the heck I hit to make it stop/start.

I've had my Sony KV34HS420 since last summer and use the Time Warner Cable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD DVR with passport. When I'm watching Discovery or Fox the channels logo in the bottom right hand corner is being cut off of the screen, almost by half. The 0 in Fox 50 is cut off and the "D" in Discovery HD logo is cut off. This did not happen in the past and I have been going back and forth between Time Warner Cable for the past month about this issue and after trying two different 8000HD boxes and now the 8300HD box they are claiming the TV is broken. I am currently using the HDMI output of the 8300HD and have tried component etc. and it does not matter, I get the same results.

As a response to this I called Sony tech support and I was referred to a authorizied service man who came out this past Wed to check out the TV. He found nothing wrong with it whatsoever and even hooked a HD generator to the Component inputs in the back and tested the 1080i signal which came up as a almost perfect grid to prove to me it had to be the cable signal. The picture was maybe 1/9" off on the right which he explained wasn't even worth fixing.

TW's senior HD tech says that they are unable to modify the signal coming to the box in anyway and that it has to be the TV.

Anyone else heard of this problem? I seem to be the only one in America with this issue. I'm in Cary, NC and if anyone in the area or state has this TV I'd love to hear if they get a full picture on Discovery HD or Fox 50HD w/ the Sony KV34hs420

Thanks,
Mike

Kasey, does your Sony allow you to shift the picture vertically?

The menu allows me to adjust vertical image and tilt, i've tried maxing both in each directon, makes no difference plus the logo is on the horizontal plane anyway, ie:


--------------------
| ----------------- |
| ----------------- |
| -----------------H D< -- D is cut off
--------------------

Also, Sony tech guy told me to press "guide" on the 8300 HD remote, all of you know this brings up the guide and makes a small PIP image of the current channel in the upper right side of the screen. Viewing this image the Discovery HD logo or Fox 50HD logo fits in the box and can be seen. Sony tech said that if it was the TV, the logo would be cut off there as well. This didn't make much sense to me but that's what both Sony tech online and the service technician said.

The 8300HD boxes can actually stretch the HD signals. When I turn my cable box on when I have it set to stretch 4:3 content it will also stretch 16:9 content. However, it only stretches the video on the channel that it was on when I turned on the TV. For example, I turn the cable box off on channel 255(CBS HD). Then I turn it back on and it reverts back to the last channel I was on(255). The HD image is stretched so I can not see part of the CBS logo. I just change the channel up or down and now everything is back to normal for widescreen HD content and stretched for 4:3 content. I too am in Cary NC. Gorgeous Day out today!

mpgxsvcd,

Thanks for the reply but my box is not set to stretch when the logo is cut off, I've played around w/ the stretch function and it just really screws the 16X9 picture up even more. I was getting the same screen using the previous two 8000HD boxes that I have tried and they do not allow stretching of HD content.

Any other ideas?

Originally posted by kasey
Anyone else heard of this problem? I seem to be the only one in America with this issue. I'm in Cary, NC and if anyone in the area or state has this TV I'd love to hear if they get a full picture on Discovery HD or Fox 50HD w/ the Sony KV34hs420

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,
I'm in Chapel Hill and don't have the problem you're describing with my TWC 8300HD, the logo's are clearly postioned in the corners where you would expect them. Your comment about going to the guide to view the image in the pip window is interesting. If I do that with the HD Net test patterns, I do see more of the test pattern image (particularly the bottom edge) than is displayed in normal viewing mode. I assume the portion I don't see in normal viewing is outside the viewing area due to overscan, but in the pip window, the entire pip image is well within the viewable screen. Your tech did check the overscan of your set?

ChrisFix,

Thanks for the reply. The tech brought in a HD video generator which he hooked up via component cables. He then set the generator to display both 720p and 1080i test patterns, and the patterns aligned correctly with both sides of the screen, almost perfectly, we're talking 1/9" off. Even when I switch my box to 4:3 sidebar, the right sidebar is actually a little shorter than the left one, once again the tech measured this and it was about 3/4 inch difference on the right, and he stated this was due to the cable signal. The tech explained what he could fix in the service menu, but that the tv was already displaying both HD signals correctly.

Since I swear for the first 2 months of owning the TV the picture displayed correctly, my only option seems to be to take this 203lb monster over to someone elses place who has TW HD w/ a 8000 or 8300 hd box to see if it displays the same over there. If it does then I know it's the TV, if not then it has to be my cable signal.

--Mike

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
The 8300HD boxes can actually stretch the HD signals. Did you previously have an 8000HD ?? If so, was it able to stretch (or ZOOM or add sidebars) to any already 16:9 programs ?? Mine can't - it tells me that "The program already matches your TV type" or something similar.

In "Settings", "A", what do you have set for Aspect Ratio ??

Originally posted by kasey
ChrisFix,

Thanks for the reply. The tech brought in a HD video generator which he hooked up via component cables. He then set the generator to display both 720p and 1080i test patterns, and the patterns aligned correctly with both sides of the screen, almost perfectly, we're talking 1/9" off. Even when I switch my box to 4:3 sidebar, the right sidebar is actually a little shorter than the left one, once again the tech measured this and it was about 3/4 inch difference on the right, and he stated this was due to the cable signal. The tech explained what he could fix in the service menu, but that the tv was already displaying both HD signals correctly.

Since I swear for the first 2 months of owning the TV the picture displayed correctly, my only option seems to be to take this 203lb monster over to someone elses place who has TW HD w/ a 8000 or 8300 hd box to see if it displays the same over there. If it does then I know it's the TV, if not then it has to be my cable signal.

--Mike

Maybe you could reverse that procedure. Try to find a friend with a small LCD 16:9 HDTV, and bring it to your place and see what the result looks like.

-barry

Originally posted by kasey
The tech brought in a HD video generator which he hooked up via component cables. He then set the generator to display both 720p and 1080i test patterns, and the patterns aligned correctly with both sides of the screen, almost perfectly, we're talking 1/9" off.

kasey,

When you say "aligned correctly... almost perfectly" do you mean:

a. The picture is correctly centered,

or

b. There is zero overscan?

Since all TVs have some overscan, I assume you meant a. So, did your Sony tech tell you how much overscan your TV has? What was your percent overscan?

It is sounding to me like TWC may be right...

Sooke

The test pattern he used had + signs on all corners and sides of the screen, then on the top and bottom had a \___/ type arrow looking design, on the top and bottom the full down arrow was not visible, but the sides did not seem to be cut off, nor did the tech say anything about it. He seemed to know what he was talking about, but who knows. Also stated they were the only ones in the area with a HD generator. Anyway, I just got back from lunch and took a picture of the Fox screen, didn't have time to do the Discovery because I couldn't find a show with it on there.


http://mdbotkin.smugmug.com/photos/16892707-L.jpg

You are not alone. My setup: Toshiba 65" HDtv/TWC 8300 HDDVR and for the previous 8000DVR box this would happen as well. Happens on Fox and DiscoveryHD too. I've not done anthing about it as I guess I'd never heard of others having the issue and just thought it was the programming coming in from the stations? Maybe I'm missing something??

Those channels have their logo at the extreme edge of the frame, they should be in at least 5% to allow for typical overscan.

So should I be able to modify the overscan in the service menu? These two channels really drive me nuts to be honest, it just doesn't look right.
I know how to get into the 34HS420 service menu but I do not have the guide or what settings should be changed.

--Mike

Look in the Display forums:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495928&highlight=34hs420

I sure you can adjust the picture size & position in the service menu.

Originally posted by Mark Strube
All you have to do is call the local office. Do not call TWC's customer service number, do a little digging, find the number that will put you thru to the office location itself (Mayfair website, hint hint) and ask them. I think I might've picked up one of the last ones from the latest shipment this morning, so it could be anywhere between a day or a few weeks before they get more. Give them a call. HDMI and all the other outputs (except for firewire & usb) are active, and the picture quality is very noticeably better even thru component. Good luck! Time Warner Cable in Milwaukee (Mayfair Mall Outlet) does, indeed, have the 8300HD's in stock ... and lots of them. I'm not sure why you just didn't tell Plumberman what their number was -- it's not a secret! TWC Mayfair # is 414-257-3608. I was told they had lots in stock!

I just brought in my old 8000HD and the power cord (you don't need anything else) and walked out with a brand spankin' new 8300HD. Cool! SD channels look better already!

EDIT: And it's so much more responsive! Menus, changing channels and changing to Hi-Def channels is much quicker.

Hi Jk27

I also went and exchanged my 8000hd for the 8300hd. I too noticed the improvement in the sd channels and there is a small improvement in the hd picture too. I like the quicker channel change when in hd, none of the contortions the 8000hd did. I also like the new search for using the dvr. I asked the TWC person about the vcr archive on when it will be activated, but he didn't know. Did you here anything about when they will have that feature. I would like to get a dvd recorder and be able to recored from the dvr. My wife and kids want to have their HGTV, TLC and noggin programs saved to a disc for future viewing and not take up space on the dvr for a long period of time. Also I believe I read a while back that the 8300hd has double the capacity of recording over the 8000hd. Is that true?
Thanks

Just in case you didn't realize it, you can copy any show to DVD/VCR now, on the 8300HD, by merely watching the show, and recording while it plays. If you don't want to actually watch the show, you can power off the TV set after you start up the recording.

-barry

Originally posted by plumberman
Hi Jk27

I also went and exchanged my 8000hd for the 8300hd. I too noticed the improvement in the sd channels and there is a small improvement in the hd picture too. I like the quicker channel change when in hd, none of the contortions the 8000hd did. I also like the new search for using the dvr. I asked the TWC person about the vcr archive on when it will be activated, but he didn't know. Did you here anything about when they will have that feature. I would like to get a dvd recorder and be able to recored from the dvr. My wife and kids want to have their HGTV, TLC and noggin programs saved to a disc for future viewing and not take up space on the dvr for a long period of time. Also I believe I read a while back that the 8300hd has double the capacity of recording over the 8000hd. Is that true?
Thanks

To answer your last question first, it's not true (the 8000HD and 8300HD have the same capacity, but they have twice the capacity of the 8000SD and 8300SD). You don't need to have a feature called "vcr archive" to copy recorded programs from the 8300HD to a DVD recorder. Just connect the recorder to the 8300HD's S-Video output or configure its component output to deliver only 480i and use that path instead.

Originally posted by plumberman
Also I believe I read a while back that the 8300hd has double the capacity of recording over the 8000hd. Is that true? No, it's not. The 8300HD has the same 160gb drive that *most* 8000HDs have. Of course, your area may have, or had, 8000HDs with 80gb HDDs. Those are an option from SA.

The 8300-series do have external SATA connections that will allow users to connect an external HDD for add'l storage space. I don't know if this option is turned on on Time Warner's boxes yet or not.

Back to the overscan issue. I know its the HD box, 8000 in my case. Go to fox news or cnn or any channel with a ticker at the bottom. Press pause. On my tv the side bar mode will show at least three more letters from the ticker than the stretch mode. Meaning the strech mode is cutting off or zooming in on the picture. I think its the same on 16:9 HD stuff too. Also, on a 16:9 tv set the tv strech mode to normal. Set the HD box to 4:3 mode with letterbox 16:9. The grey bars on the sides will be much larger than the ones visible during everyday 16:9 , 4:3 sidebar type viewing. What I'm saying is that the 8000HD is zooming in on HD and streched 4:3 material. I'm using component cables obviously. I hope the 8300 is better.

If you select 'Zoom' on either the 8000HD or 8300HD, it will do exactly that, it zoom's in on the image, showing a smaller area of the picture that is displayed larger on your screen, so yes it will cut off some viewable picture on all sides - that's what it is supposed to do. If you have a 16:9 TV and you set the 8000/8300 Aspect Ratio to 4:3, you've set the box incorrectly and it will display incorrectly as well. The issue that was being discussed was of a TV using 'Normal' viewing settings not being able to see all of the station logos, which is more than likely the TV's Overscan setting being a little to high.

For those of you in the TWC Milwaukee area, the 8300HD outputs composite video, S Video, component video and hdmi/dvi video at the same time. I was curious to see if dvi would give me a better picture than component so I bought an expensive Monster HDMI to DVI cable to try it out. My opinion? I could see no difference whatsoever in video quality. This experience is the same as many others on this forum that own Sony Wega LCD rear projection hdtv's. I'm returning the cable. Just mho.
Dick Teschendorf
Sony Grand WEGA 60" LCD Rear-Projection HDTV KF-60WE610

Originally posted by DickTinWis
For those of you in the TWC Milwaukee area, the 8300HD outputs composite video, S Video, component video and hdmi/dvi video at the same time. I was curious to see if dvi would give me a better picture than component so I bought an expensive Monster HDMI to DVI cable to try it out. My opinion? I could see no difference whatsoever in video quality. This experience is the same as many others on this forum that own Sony Wega LCD rear projection hdtv's. I'm returning the cable. Just mho.
Dick Teschendorf
Sony Grand WEGA 60" LCD Rear-Projection HDTV KF-60WE610

Maybe it is your cable? I bought an $11 HDMI cable online and I see a huge difference between it and my Monster THX component cables on my Sony 55” GWIV LCD with my 8300HD. Monster cables are a complete waste of money!

Originally posted by DickTinWis
I was curious to see if dvi would give me a better picture than component so I bought an expensive Monster HDMI to DVI cable to try it out. My opinion? I could see no difference whatsoever in video quality. IMO, people who spend big bucks on Monster Cable *want* to see a difference in order to justify the price and therefore they *do* see a difference. Glad to see you had an open mind about the scenario...

(People need to do "blind" tests where someone else connects the cables and they don't know which is which.)

On my direct view Panasonic HD monitor, I get a huge big difference between Component and Digital (HDMI to DVI) but the reason isn't the cable, it's how my TV displays from its internal inputs. The DVI input is much brighter and better balanced than the component input, so it changes the PQ totally. The difference is the same for my DVD player or SA8300HD through component vs DVI, so I know it is the input not the cables. I think a lot of individual experiences related to HDMI/DVI or Component, both good and bad, are caused by the fact that our TV inputs aren't created equally.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
... TV inputs aren't created equally.

or, to be more precise, calibrated equally.

There was a poster that claimed that the SATA port on the 8300HD was active.


www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516559 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516559)


He had the SARA software though. Can anyone confirm that the SATA output on our 8300HD with passport software has been activated? I was initially told by my TWC CSR that the HDMI port wasn't active, and it was ever since it was released. I'd like to add some extra hours to my 8300 asap.:D

Time Warner has purchased Maxtor external drives made to be connected to the SA8300HD (see here (http://www.shareholder.com/maxtor/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=151856&reltype=Product&maxtor_section=press)). Where and how they will deploy these is not discussed in this PR. Note that TWC use Scientific Atlanta's SARA IPG on these boxes on some systems, so whether or not they're supported by Passport Echo is also uncertain.

I was surprised that the one guy reporting that he got an off-the-shelf SATA drive to work with his STB did so, mostly because Maxtor's external drive product spec sheet says that the cable company has to enable the use of them. I suspected that this would mean that they'd only be available as a lease-option.

Finally got my HDMI cable and connected my 8300 to my Panny HD TV. All is well, but now when I want to control the volume, I have to do it on the TV - the 8300's volume no longer has an effect! Any ideas why this is happening?

I'm having a problem recording to my VCR when my TV is off.

I have an 8300HD box (from TWC in NYC) connected to my HDTV via HDMI and connected to my VCR via RCA cables. If I try to make a recording with the TV off, it doesn't work. Sometimes I get a message that my HDTV does not support HDCP.

One solution is to record to my DVR and then play it back into my VCR. But is there a way to record directly to my VCR without having to leave the TV on?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Holy crap this is a long thread!

I have one set up question for my 8300 TWC Passport box-

My Sony DOWNconverts 720p to 480p :(. How should I set up the resolutions with HDMI?

Problem with Color

I just installed my 8300HD on a SONY KV30HS420 using the component inputs as well as the S-Video for non HD programming. The problem is that blue appears as black on the component inputs (from both the HD as well as non-HD channels). It looks good when using the composite inputs.

Any suggestions?

BlackbeardsSaint, what is your TV's native resolution ?? I have mine outputting only 1080i (it's also my TV's native resolution).

Originally posted by BlackbeardsSaint
Holy crap this is a long thread!

I have one set up question for my 8300 TWC Passport box-

My Sony DOWNconverts 720p to 480p :(. How should I set up the resolutions with HDMI?

Need more info. What outputs are selected in the settings menu of the STB? Does this always happen? Is the result the same using component?

Originally posted by BlackbeardsSaint
Holy crap this is a long thread!

I have one set up question for my 8300 TWC Passport box-

My Sony DOWNconverts 720p to 480p :(. How should I set up the resolutions with HDMI?

If you set the output formats of the 8300HD to 480i, 480p, and 1080i in the "Settings -> More Settings -> Output Formats" menu, the STB will not pass 720p to your TV, but will upconvert it to 1080i before sending it to your TV. Your TV should display it in its native 1080i resolution at that point. The key is to make sure you don't have 720p selected in the "Output Formats" menu of the SA8300.

i've been loving my SA8300HD except for one major bug... i have this segment of a channel 1 orchestra show that the box keeps "snapping" back to when recorded programs end.

i watch a recorded program (SD or HD) and when it hits the end of the recording, the box pops up prompting me to select erase, save, or play from beginning. if i hit erase, the box appears to erase it and go back to live TV. rather than going back to live TV, it plays a 5 second annoying snippet from some random orchestra show that was once on channel 1. it always plays the same 5 seconds of this really obnoxious song and then pauses at the end, waiting for me to change channels. from that point on, whenever i go to rewind live TV, it plays that snippet... it has no live TV buffer. i have to reboot the box to correct the problem and restore the buffer.

what in the world is going on??? i figure the best way to rid my box of this video clip would be to wipe the drive completely. how do i do that? is there an option for that in the service mode? how do i access that?

your immediate help would be appreciated, as i'm tired of looking at this crazy, curly-haired conductor conducting the same 5 seconds of this song.

Just for imformation purposes: I have seen references to that before either here or on the Yahoo explorer_8000 group. I thought it was resolved, but I can't be sure the fix wasn't drive formatting (SARA only AFAIK) or box-replacement.


C-F

Originally posted by ChrisFix
If you set the output formats of the 8300HD to 480i, 480p, and 1080i in the "Settings -> More Settings -> Output Formats" menu, the STB will not pass 720p to your TV, but will upconvert it to 1080i before sending it to your TV. Your TV should display it in its native 1080i resolution at that point. The key is to make sure you don't have 720p selected in the "Output Formats" menu of the SA8300.

Awesome, thanks! Hopefully I'll be able to set the box up today (waiting on my Ebay HDMI->DVI cable).

Originally posted by thericky
i've been loving my SA8300HD except for one major bug... i have this segment of a channel 1 orchestra show that the box keeps "snapping" back to when recorded programs end.

i watch a recorded program (SD or HD) and when it hits the end of the recording, the box pops up prompting me to select erase, save, or play from beginning. if i hit erase, the box appears to erase it and go back to live TV. rather than going back to live TV, it plays a 5 second annoying snippet from some random orchestra show that was once on channel 1. it always plays the same 5 seconds of this really obnoxious song and then pauses at the end, waiting for me to change channels. from that point on, whenever i go to rewind live TV, it plays that snippet... it has no live TV buffer. i have to reboot the box to correct the problem and restore the buffer.

what in the world is going on??? i figure the best way to rid my box of this video clip would be to wipe the drive completely. how do i do that? is there an option for that in the service mode? how do i access that?

your immediate help would be appreciated, as i'm tired of looking at this crazy, curly-haired conductor conducting the same 5 seconds of this song.

I have seen a number of reports of this on SARA boxes, but i don't think it happens with Passport software. Is your unit running SARA? If so i think it's a software bug and you're posting in the wrong thread too. If you're running Passport then the box is obviously defective and should be replaced. You can wipe the drive on SARA DVRs but not on Passport. That's why there are different threads for the two software types - what happens with one doesn't happen with the other.

I'm still irritated that I can't get pass-thru on these stupid Passport 8300's (which I am otherwise quite fond of)...

Just needed to vent :D

i definitely have passport and i'm not posting in the wrong thread. i have brighthouse here in central florida and the fact that i can't wipe the hard drive stinks ;) oh well, i guess i'll call BHN and have them replace the whole darn thing.

regardless, how do i access the service/diagnostic menu on my box?

thericky,

"To get to the multi-page Diagnostics screen, simultaneously press and hold the front panel's SELECT and EXIT buttons till DIAGNO appears then release the buttons, then press EXIT and the the box tunes itself to the multi-page Diagnostics channel. To exit press Ch + or Ch - "

<lost the original source of this quote>

Take note of the channel # and you can usually go there from the remote later.

v/r,
C-F

Originally posted by CANNON-FODDER
Take note of the channel # and you can usually go there from the remote later. Not if you turn the box off.... In fact, I've been in the DIAG menu and not turned it off but was unable to access it via channel # later (not sure how long) as if it disables the channel after some time period (30 minutes, 15 minutes ???). I had to do the center-button+exit, exit sequence to get back in.

I've read earlier threads on the various implementations used to get to the diag menu. On my TWC system, I simply tune to channel 999 at any time and I get the full multi-page system diagnostics.

Originally posted by ChrisFix
I've read earlier threads on the various implementations used to get to the diag menu. On my TWC system, I simply tune to channel 999 at any time and I get the full multi-page system diagnostics.

Apparently it varies on different TWC systems. In my area, i can get a single page of "Set Top Diagnostics" information if i tune to ch 199.

To get to the multi-page diagnostics i have to do the press/hold Select and Exit buttons then Exit again where it tunes itself to ch 1999. However if i just try to change to channel 1999 directly all i get is ???? on the display and it doesn't come up, even after i've already been in the screens and gotten out. I can't get back in by tuning to 1999.

Other people on the mailing list end up on other channels like 699 etc.

There's a channel that I can tune to at any time to get a single page diagnostic. I think that it's 998--dunno, I don't use it. It's a quick way to find out things like the box's firmware version. To enable the multi-page diagnostic, hold in SEL and EXIT simultaneously on the box (not the remote) until "dIAG" appears in the LEDs. Release the buttons and hit EXIT again and it will tune to the multi-page diagnostic channel, which varies from system to system (611 on my system).

Once enabled, nothing I've tried will disable it short of rebooting the system, which happens sometimes when TWC does maintenance overnight. (Since I log the filesizes of the HD programs that I record as I delete them, I leave it enabled all the time--it won't hurt anything, so long as your family won't get freaked out if they somehow wander into it). Once it's enabled, you can get back to it by tuning the channel from the remote, or by pressing EXIT on the box, which works even if both tuners are in use recording things. (After bringing up this display when both tuners are in use I haven't found a way to turn it off, but it stops displaying after a short while anyway). You can scroll through it to find the page with the info that you want with the up and down arrow keys on the remote. When you exit and reenter it, it will be on the page that you left it on.

I just set up my 8300 HD DVR from Time Warner.

I notice that the guide always has side bars. There does not appear to be a way to make the guide fill my 16:9 screen?

The guide on my Pioneer HD STB always filled the screen as expected (also Passport software).

Anyone have this problem?

I saw the bug about HDMI and 5.1, so I switched to component output until i get a dvi converter or the firmware upgrade to force 5.1. My problem however is that even on shows that say they support 5.1 audio i don't get it. Like for instance CSI tonight is supposed to be 5.1 but my receiver is only receiving 2.0. Same with the movie Wind that i was watching on HBO HD the other day. Is this time warner cutting out the extra 3.1 data to save space, or is there something wrong with my box.

TIA

Did you disconnect the HDMI cable? If it's still connected, even if you're not using it, you still get the missing 5.1 problem.

Originally posted by bnewsom
I just set up my 8300 HD DVR from Time Warner.

I notice that the guide always has side bars. There does not appear to be a way to make the guide fill my 16:9 screen?

The guide on my Pioneer HD STB always filled the screen as expected (also Passport software).

Anyone have this problem?

I have a 4:3 set and when I receive a 1080i output from the 8300HD, the guide displays with sidebars in 16:9 Letterbox, so it looks pretty small. I've played with pretty much every setting, and this appears to be how the guide is formatted for HD channels. When I'm receiving 480i/480p, it displays in full screen.

Originally posted by margoba
Did you disconnect the HDMI cable? If it's still connected, even if you're not using it, you still get the missing 5.1 problem.

yes i removed the cable its all packed back up ready to be returned to best buy. 150$ for a cable is a bit ridiculous, but twc told me i'd need one to pick up the box. And like i mentioned i still get 5.1 on some shows like OC and point pleasant.

Sorry, I didn't notice the "get 5.1 on some shows" part. I'm stumped. $150 is ridiculous for a cable. I paid $13.95 for mine at www.svideo.com

-barry

yeah it was the only one they had at best buy, the guy told me the picture would look better then a cheap hdmi cable, i said nope its digital, and then he tried to tell me it'd be a sharper picutre, and i said nope its digital, but i needed one, and didn't want to argue any more. I ordered one online for 35$ but i needed a long one, and I still don't like buying the cheapest cable i can find, there is something towards build quality. Looks like i'll be calling TWC and asking them whats going on. Thanks

Originally posted by ChrisFix
I have a 4:3 set and when I receive a 1080i output from the 8300HD, the guide displays with sidebars in 16:9 Letterbox, so it looks pretty small. The guide is "universal" across different set-tops, many of which aren't for "HD" or widescreen setups. It would at least be nice if there was an option to stretch it though I'm afraid that would cause havoc to the "fonts". More importantly, I read a PDF about the SA8xxx units and that the guide is "640x480" in design (4:3, not 16:9). That there pretty much limits Passport's ability to offer anything different. This also goes back to SA using a common layer across their various set-tops. Someday.... maybe.... the guide will be "widescreen" formatted.

Will digital coax out work when the HDMI is used? I hope so...

(I'm still waiting for my HDMI->DVI cable to come so I can use this damn box!)

Originally posted by BlackbeardsSaint
Will digital coax out work when the HDMI is used? I hope so...

(I'm still waiting for my HDMI->DVI cable to come so I can use this damn box!)

It works it just outputs stereo. Thats the way mine worked anyways.

Originally posted by BlackbeardsSaint
Will digital coax out work when the HDMI is used? I hope so...

(I'm still waiting for my HDMI->DVI cable to come so I can use this damn box!)

Digital coax out works fine when using an HDMI<>DVI cable. I have no idea what would happen with an HDMI<>HDMI cable.

Oh...thanks to the person that mentioned Blue Jeans Cable. I first tried a Monster 6 ft. HDMI<>DVI cable from BB at $119.95 plus tax and then tried the same type cable from Blue Jeans Cable at $36.50 plus $5.75 s&h. I could not see any difference in the video quality between the 2 cables (Sony LCD RP 60").

Originally posted by DickTinWis
Digital coax out works fine when using an HDMI<>DVI cable. I have no idea what would happen with an HDMI<>HDMI cable.

Oh...thanks to the person that mentioned Blue Jeans Cable. I first tried a Monster 6 ft. HDMI<>DVI cable from BB at $119.95 plus tax and then tried the same type cable from Blue Jeans Cable at $36.50 plus $5.75 s&h. I could not see any difference in the video quality between the 2 cables (Sony LCD RP 60").

Thanks!


Heads up for ya- for cheap cables that work great!!!
Crap, can't lnk.

Do a search on ebay for HDMI/DVI cables. Got mine for 10 bukcs shipped. a guy at a local HD forum uses it and says it great.

Originally posted by margoba
Did you disconnect the HDMI cable? If it's still connected, even if you're not using it, you still get the missing 5.1 problem.

False. I have both connected. However, to get DD 5.1 while using component you'll have to change "Input" source on the TV/Receiver.

Originally posted by IamtheWolf
False. I have both connected. However, to get DD 5.1 while using component you'll have to change "Input" source on the TV/Receiver.

Well I don't have the HDMI connected anymore and still don't get dolby digital on some shows, did anyone notice if CSI was in fact 5.1 last night?

Originally posted by IamtheWolf
False. I have both connected. However, to get DD 5.1 while using component you'll have to change "Input" source on the TV/Receiver.

Really? Do you have HDMI connected to both the 8300HD and an HDMI (not DVI) connection on your TV, and you still get 5.1. There have been many reports of this not working. Maybe your TV set supports 5.1. Glad to hear of your success.

-barry

Originally posted by margoba
Really? Do you have HDMI connected to both the 8300HD and an HDMI (not DVI) connection on your TV, and you still get 5.1. There have been many reports of this not working. Maybe your TV set supports 5.1. Glad to hear of your success.-barry
My set up is BOTH HDMI and Component from SA8300HD to Sony 55XS955, with Digital Coax from SA8300HD to Receiver.

For HDMI to HDMI (Sony's Input 7), I only get 2 channel through the Receiver (or shut it off and use the Sony's audio as delivered from the HDMI connection). If I also use "audio out" from the Sony its still 2 channel to the Receiver (of course since that is what the SA8300HD is passing).

For Component (Sony's Input 5), I pass audio directly through the Digital Coax to the Receiver and receive DD 5.1 (when broadcast). The Sony is used for video only.

PQ is very close in quality between HDMI and Component. Thus, for convenience I use HDMI to HDMI and the Sony's audio. When I want improved audio I switch to Input 5 and use Component for video and the direct Digital to the Receiver for audio.

I'd love to unplug the Component cables and pass DD 5.1 from the Sony (if received via HDMI), but apparently I need a firmware update from TWC (they claim they're getting from SA). Apparently other locations (Texas?) have it, but Raleigh doesn't. The firmware enables access to a "Digital Out" setting on the SA8300HD (using Settings and "A").

That's interesting. I was led to believe that if there was a live HDMI connection then all audio would be 2 channel unless the TV supported 5.1, regardless of whether the video was being watched over component or HDMI. Maybe Sony electronically deactivates the HDMI connection unless it is the one being viewed.

I think there's some confusion about the "firmware upgrade" that you mention. I think the only areas that have the "Digital Out" setting are SARA implementations. I'm not aware of any Passport firmware upgrade that exists yet. There has been talk of one, but no action yet.

-barry

Hey guys, I have 2 8300s, one hooked into a 16:9 TV and a second in the master bedroom hooked up to a 27" HD-Ready TV. The bedroom tv has a 4:3 aspect ratio. I have been having some major problems getting my box to output the correct aspect ratio for this TV.

Here is my issue, a whole lot of the picture in HD shows gets cut off unless I set the TV to WS mode with it sidebarring 4:3. Of course if I do that then my non-HD channels have gray bars on the side and look squashed. (Remember this is sidebars on a 4:3 set).

If I tell the box that I have a 4:3 set and ask it to letterbox the HD content it does the same as above. In other words it sidebars 4:3. No setting whatsoever gives letterbox on HD. (It should be able to, otherwise why the setting for it.)

Has anybody else had this issue, is there a workaround? I am on Time-Warner Carolina (the Charlotte area).

--Tzvi

P.S. - I know letterboxing HD will reduce the quality, but as this is only in the bedroom and not my primary TV I am willing to deal with a little quality loss.

Well i found out that CBS in San Diego just doesn't support 5.1 audio because they don't have the proper equipment. Pretty lame.

Tzvi,
I posted the wonky way "Aspect Control" works on my setup an earlier post (POST #737 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5207591#post5207591)).

LETTERBOX has not worked on one or more of the STB for about a year and a half.

Thankfully, I have been able to send a SQUEEZE 16:9 signal, which allows me to use the WIDE mode on the TV. YMMV.

I have returned the Pioneer and the 8000HD now, so I cannot provide comparisons across platforms anymore (as well as reducing me to a single point of failure).

v/r,
C-F

Originally posted by Tzvi
Hey guys, I have 2 8300s, one hooked into a 16:9 TV and a second in the master bedroom hooked up to a 27" HD-Ready TV. The bedroom tv has a 4:3 aspect ratio. I have been having some major problems getting my box to output the correct aspect ratio for this TV.

Here is my issue, a whole lot of the picture in HD shows gets cut off unless I set the TV to WS mode with it sidebarring 4:3. Of course if I do that then my non-HD channels have gray bars on the side and look squashed. (Remember this is sidebars on a 4:3 set).

If I tell the box that I have a 4:3 set and ask it to letterbox the HD content it does the same as above. In other words it sidebars 4:3. No setting whatsoever gives letterbox on HD. (It should be able to, otherwise why the setting for it.)

Has anybody else had this issue, is there a workaround? I am on Time-Warner Carolina (the Charlotte area).

--Tzvi

P.S. - I know letterboxing HD will reduce the quality, but as this is only in the bedroom and not my primary TV I am willing to deal with a little quality loss.

I'm using the 8300HD in Chapel Hill TWC on a 4:3, so maybe this will help. If you don't select your ouput formats to include 480i and/or 480p, then SD will always be displayed with letterboxing/sidebars. What formats do you have selected from the 8300HD?

On my 4:3 set, there is a settings menu item for display type: 4:3 or 16:9. Make sure your TV isn't set to zoom or 4:3 mode when watching HD 16:9 content. If you are using your TV's settings to zoom an HD program to 4:3, you will lose some of the viewable picture on all sides. If you stretch an HD program to 4:3 you should see all the picture, but it will be vertically stretched.

If you use the 8300HD's zoom and stretch modes, it will only zoom or stretch within the aspect that you are watching, meaning that if it is in 16:9 mode, it will only zoom or stretch the image within the 16:9 window, again with zoom losing some of the viewable image on all sides.

Speaking of all these audio questions/issues, does the CABLE BOX MUTE button work for you when your receiver is connected via digital coax? The box displays "mute" on my TV but it doesn't cut off the audio. This used to work fine with the 8000HD, which would cut audio to digital coax. Seems like a bug to me... Anyone else can replicate this?

Originally posted by spikemike
Well i found out that CBS in San Diego just doesn't support 5.1 audio because they don't have the proper equipment. Pretty lame. Their excuse (according to their former Chief Engineer who participates in a local forum who has since defected to Fox) has been that the other stations receive their audio streams already encoded in Dolby 5.1--all they have to do is pass it on. CBS provides their audio in Dolby E, which has to be decoded, switched, then encoded into Dolby 5.1, which requires expensive equipment which they can't afford (or aren't willing to squeeze into their budget--can't blame them; HDTV just loses money at this point). Every other San Diego network affiliate broadcasts 5.1 on their DTV channel--ABC, NBC, Fox, the WB and PBS (no UPN DTV until fall).

A quick glance at Dolby's page on the products (here (http://www.dolby.com/professional/pro_audio_engineering/products_dolbye.html)) reveals that Dolby E related equipment seems reasonably priced, but I got no idea what else they'd need.

Has anyone else had any problems with there 8300 I got one on Friday and I have it hooked up through a straight HDMI cable and it was working fine but I set some things to record when I went to work and when I got home the shows that recorded as an example started at 2:59 and stoped at 2:59 and it proceeded to this also for Battlestar Galactic on SciFi!!! This is really annoying!!!! I called the next day on Saturday and told TW what was going on and of course they suggested that I do a reboot and it didn't it again. Then they suggested a hard reboot by unpluging it for 30 seconds. This worked for two shows then it proceeded to go back to its old self by not recording!!!!!! Then Sunday we get back to watch TV and the our Cable is unstable!! I called TW and they said that they were not having an outage in our area! So I check the Coax cables and change things up a little and we get our channels back! then they go out again! I get just a few channels!! It acts like it trying to access scambled channels!!! This is so annoying!!!! Has anyone else had these problems???

The first week after I got my 8300HD which is also hooked up through HDMI which shouldn't really matter in terms of the box recording shows, mine was doing the exact same thing. Mine would record ie: 1:59 to 1:59 but then would record the whole show in a different listing. I just kept deleting the 1 min pieces and now it's stopped doing that all together and seems to be working fine. Only thing I hate is no 5.1 using HDMI, only 2 channel PCM because we are on the passport system.

--Mike

I would at least be happy if it would record the whole but it's not all I get is the 1:59 to 1:59 no show at all! It's doing it also when I do a standalone recording! I have an appointment scheduled for Wed. I can't miss my ALIAS and LOST!!! I just think things should work when they are new right out of the box!

Regarding HDMI and DD5.1, if I plug the HDMI cable into my A/V receiver I can get DD5.1 over HDMI.

However I lose the video output from the receiver over HDMI due to the HDCP handshake bug. TWC emailed me saying that a fix is in the works from SA. I also asked them about the 5.1 being disabled over the digital audio outputs but they haven't responded.

Regards,
JnC

Originally posted by JnC
Regarding HDMI and DD5.1, if I plug the HDMI cable into my A/V receiver I can get DD5.1 over HDMI.

However I lose the video output from the receiver over HDMI due to the HDCP handshake bug. TWC emailed me saying that a fix is in the works from SA. I also asked them about the 5.1 being disabled over the digital audio outputs but they haven't responded.

Regards,
JnC

I take it there is no problem with HDMI->DVI. Mine's like that and I have dig coax out to my reciever and it gets 5.1.

8300HD here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Having trouble activating the Diagnostic Menu. I have not yet been able to find a channel that displays any diagnostic info ... and pressing "Select" and "Exit" on the box (like I did with my 8000HD) also does not work.

Any other ideas? Thanks much!

Any chance we will ever be able to change the title of this thread to "Time Warner Cable - ...... w/ Tivo software"???

I wouldn't count on it, but Time Warner would be smart to follow in Comcast's footsteps.

For those of you who haven't heard:

http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=246

Originally posted by EricScott
Any chance we will ever be able to change the title of this thread to "Time Warner Cable - ...... w/ Tivo software"???

I wouldn't count on it, but Time Warner would be smart to follow in Comcast's footsteps.

For those of you who haven't heard:

http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=246

I suspect this will surprise most people here, but I hope TW doesn't do this. I like my 8300 better than Tivo. And, I like the way it seems to be evolving better than what I see as the Tivo future.

Additionally, there are two problems with a Tivo linkup like the Comcast one in the press release:

1. Comcast says the new DVR will be available in mid to late 2006 which to my cynical mind translates into early to mid 2007. You can bet that there will be no more upgrades to their existing DVR software until then. Maybe a maintenance upgrade or two, but probably not even that.

2. The outlook for Tivo, as a company, is murky right now. I suspect that they will survive (more so given the Comcast agreement), but they are clearly a company in flux. I'm not sure I'd like to bet my own DVR experience on Tivo's future.

-barry

Barry,

I understand how you could prefer the 8300 to paying for a stand-alone cable card Tivo and I agree that Passport is pretty decent but I personally think it's a no brainer, that if TWC decided to license Tivo's software for use on its existing hardware platform that this would be a huge positive for us. The Tivo software is still light years ahead of passport in terms of ease of use and some key features like Wishlists and suggestions. Plus with a partner like Comcast supporting the company, Tivo is likely to continue to refine its software and introduce new features.

I also agree that the outlook for Tivo WAS murky, but I would say that this Comcast deal changes that completely. It's a seven year deal and Comcast is the largest cableco in the country. The economic terms of the deal haven't been released yet and I'm sure they are pretty favorable to Comcast, but Tivo as an entity will be around for a while as a result of this deal.

I do agree with your 1st point though, but IMHO it would be a small price to pay to get an HD DVR with Tivo software for FREE (at least the hardware will be free).

Of course this is probably all moot b/c what are the chances that Time Warner will fork over the dough to license the software from Tivo?

Crazy man that I am, I still prefer the Passport interface to Tivo. I don't like the Suggestions feature, and the Wish List is nice, but not all that important to me.

I still classify Tivo's future as murky because we don't know the financial details of the Comcast agreement. Not too long ago, Comcast and Tivo could not come to an agreement. Now that Tivo is "in trouble" an agreement has been reached. I just hope that Tivo didn't have to "give away the store" in order to get some much needed short term momentum.

I guess I should really take the high road here and root for a TW/Tivo deal, since so many Passport users seem to bemoan not having Tivo; and I don't feel too strongly either way on this one.

I do, however, agree with you that a deal is unlikely unless Tivo gets really desparate.

-barry

My guess is that Comcast got a sweet deal. And Tivo probably "sold out" but personally I'd rather that someone benefit from their technology than no one, if the company were to go under, which it certainly was poised to do.

Frankly I'm somewhat surprised that the deal is "non-exlcusive". It definitely leaves the door open for others to approach Tivo to make similar deals.

In the meantime, I am very pleased with the 8300 and while I wish I was a Comcast subscriber (at least a year and half from now) we are no worse off.

I have both a TiVo and an 8300HD.

After reading some comments in this thread regarding the interfaces/software of both devices, I felt qualified to make some comments since I have both.

The 8300HD does nothing better, in terms of software and interface, than the TiVo.

The TiVos software is infinitely more streamlined, refined, responsive, and easier to use. The 8300s software is clunky and buggy at best.

The TiVo never, and I mean never, messes up a recording of the play back of a recording. The TiVo remote is far superior, and the TiVo far more responsive to remote input than the 8300. The fast forward and rewind on the TiVo is also much smoother and easier to use (it actually backs up the appropriate amount after hitting play again).

The TiVo has far more customizability options. For example, I can tell it no to record re-runs and record shows only the first time they are aired. I can also tell the TiVo which shows I want recorded at higher qualities to conserve disk space. On the 8300HD, it simply records all SD at one rate and all HD content (720p or 1080i) at their own rates. The ability not to record only first-runs of shows is especially annoying on the 8300HD. For example, if I instruct it to record Monster Garage on Discovery HD Theater, I inevitably end up with a ton of re-runs that I have to delete.

The TiVo doesn't have playback bugs, or at least I haven't found any yet. When you stop a recording on the TiVo, it always remembered where you left off. The 8300 rarely remembers. If you playback a show that is currently recording, the TiVo always starts it from the beginning. The 8300 seems to always screw this up for me. Sometimes it plays live content, sometimes it will only go back 30 minutes in the recording despite their being more than an hour of already recording material. The TiVo will, based on your ratings that you provide and the shows you "subscibe" to, record shows you are likely to like or you can turn that feature off.

The 8300 does have some redeeming qualities:
1. Two tuners
2. The ability to record HD content

Since I have a stand-alone TiVo, it has only one tuner and cannot record HD content.

Of all the 8300s flaws, I find the crappy remote and slow response to be the most annoying. The buttons on the remote are horribly laid out and it's hard, using touch, to distinguish between the functionality of buttons.

Believe me, if you have used a TiVo, you will find the 8300s interface, software, remote, and level of refinement to be woefully inadequate.

Wow. You must have a different 8300 than I do.

First, I have used a Tivo for a few months, and I find the 8300's interface and software better. We may be in partial agreement on "level of refinement": I think Tivo is better in this category, but I do not think that the 8300 is "woefully inadequate". I cannot really comment on the remote since I have always used a Home Theater Master MX-700.

You say "the 8300 does nothing better". While I won't directly argue with that statement, I do think the 8300 is easier to learn and easier to use than the Tivo.

My 8300 has never messed up a recording, and the only playback 'messup' is at the end of watching a show that's still being recorded, and I would classify this as an annoyance, not a problem.

My 8300 correctly records first-run only. Are you sure you have a Passport version of the 8300?

My 8300 has never forgotten where I left off when I stop a playback. And when I'm playing back for the first time, it always starts playback from the beginning.

You may well be right about the remote and remote responsiveness. I have little experience with the standard remote, and the MX-700 that I use supposedly has a very powerful IR emitter.

I do admit that my favorite features are also the dual tuners and teh HD recording.

-barry (who likes ReplayTV better than Tivo and 8300HD better than both)

Interestingly, I've never found the 8300 remote even vaguely unresponsive. Also, I believe that you can set the 8300 to record only first-run shows. The 8300 does not allow you to specify the quality at which you're recording because it records the digital stream (i.e., the best quality possible) whereas an analog Tivo digitizes an analog signal.

Tivo or 8300— interesting discussion…..
It’s all moot without—either a larger internal hard drive, or an external hard drive. I don’t know about you folks but I seem to never have enough storage space. I can not record, or schedule, a reasonable amount of HD (and SD) without amending what I already have either recorded or scheduled. And forget about recording for a “rainy day” viewing. There certainly is not enough space for any long term “library” storage.

OK, let's all be really careful not to start the next "holy war"...

I am also a Tivo AND 8300HD user. I went into this experience with about 5 years of unabashed love for Tivo, and while I was looking forward to recording HD and dual tuners, I was very guardedly concerned about whether this unit was up to the task. Figured it'd be out the door in about a month. Kept the tivo in the cabinet and still connected for comparison and "just in case."

I have to say I'm very pleasantly surprised by the 8300HD's performance. Kingstud, while you hit all the highlights of things I have also seen, my opinion is far from "woefully inadequate".

"Does nothing better": I have found one thing --
8300HD automatically pads every recording, as long as the tuner is available. In contrast to Tivo, if you add padding to a season pass or other recording, it does it every time, and could create a recording conflict and miss a show altogether. I thought I'd never find a feature that the 8300 had that tivo did not...

Never misses a recording: Correct, I've never seen my Tivo miss a recording. I've also never seen the 8300 miss a recording either. With dual tuners, I doubt I'll be hitting the VCR any time soon either, like I did many times before with Tivo.

Recording of re-runs: (you sure you have Passport? The SARA version has problems with re-runs). With the 8300HD and Passport, I get very few duplicates, and when I do, the Tivo got them as well. It's a guide data problem.

Play-back bugs: Minor annoyances here. Yes, I've seen it forget what place you're at in a show, but only when you flip between pre-recorded shows and come back later. A fast-forward with 15-minute skip, and I'm back in a few seconds.

Remote and fast-forward: Agreed, fast-forward is a bit jerky, and less responsive to fast-forward and rewind action. I use a Pronto remote as well as the standard remote, and it behaves the same. The more I use it, the better I get, but it's still not perfect.

Maybe I'm too forgiving. Maybe it's really not that bad. Do I miss some of the smoothness of the Tivo? Sure. But not enough to miss out on HD content and dual-tuner.

And let's face facts: It'll be a year or more before Tivo has an HD-capable dual-tuner box. It's good enough for me until then...

/temple

Didn't mean to start a Tivo/8300 battle here. I apologize.

But I must say I completely agree with templeofdoom - long time Tivo user who was annoyed by the 8000HD but have been very very pleased with the 8300HD.

Plus it's kind of silly to debate this until TWC does anything and chances are that's not happening anytime soon. They would be smart to sit on the sidelines and let Comcast and Tivo develop the software and see how the market accepts it before moving forward.

Uh.........Bose rules!!!!! :D :p

Originally posted by BlackbeardsSaint
I take it there is no problem with HDMI->DVI. Mine's like that and I have dig coax out to my reciever and it gets 5.1.

Well I can't run HDMI to the receiver and then run it to the TV w/o the HDCP lockout. I use a HDMI/DVI cable to go to the TV. No lockout if I go directly to the TV.

If and when the HDCP bug is resolved, I'm not certain if the 2 channel TV is the last device in the chain, if the audio will default to 2 ch.

No, I run that directly to the set, and run the digital coax to my AVR.

No, I run that directly to the set, and run the digital coax to my AVR.

Originally posted by hall
IMO, people who spend big bucks on Monster Cable *want* to see a difference in order to justify the price and therefore they *do* see a difference. Glad to see you had an open mind about the scenario...

(People need to do "blind" tests where someone else connects the cables and they don't know which is which.)

Monster DVI cables are a marketer's dream and a customer's nightmare.

My local Best Buy wanted $100 for a Monster DVI cable. You can buy one for less than $20.00 from any on-line cable vendor that will do the exact same job. It is a digital signal after all and as such the "quality" of the cable is virtually meaningless.

Originally posted by EricScott
Didn't mean to start a Tivo/8300 battle here. I apologize.

But I must say I completely agree with templeofdoom - long time Tivo user who was annoyed by the 8000HD but have been very very pleased with the 8300HD.

Plus it's kind of silly to debate this until TWC does anything and chances are that's not happening anytime soon. They would be smart to sit on the sidelines and let Comcast and Tivo develop the software and see how the market accepts it before moving forward.

I have a ReplayTV5500, A TIVO Series 2, and an 8300HD running Passport software.

No need to cover the details unless someone wants them. The bottom line is that the 8300HD is usable but the only reason I am "renting" one is to record HD. The ReplayTV interface and feature set is miles ahead of the 8300HD and the ReplayTV interface and feature set is better than the TIVO.

Both ReplayTV and TIVO are currently locked out of the market for HD recorders. The cable companies have a monopoly on HD recording (unless you want to return to the days of rotating antennas on the top of your house) and this situation is worthy of governmental review. The current FCC rules require the cable companies to offer "Cable Cards" sometime in 2006 to help create a more open market but they are lobbying to change this.

Hi,

Has anyone confirmed if the HDMI output of the SA8300HD utilizes the HDCP flags? E.g. Can I run HDMI to DVI out from the SA8300HD to a projector with DVI input that does not support HDCP?

I imagine I might not get pay per view stuff, but I dont care about that. My questions is will it work for SD and HDTV stations?

Thanks,

Gregg

[QUOTE]Originally posted by greggmck
Hi,

Has anyone confirmed if the HDMI output of the SA8300HD utilizes the HDCP flags?

Yes it does.

E.g. Can I run HDMI to DVI out from the SA8300HD to a projector with DVI input that does not support HDCP?

No. It will display the HDCP lockout message instead of the program video.

I imagine I might not get pay per view stuff, but I dont care about that. My questions is will it work for SD and HDTV stations?

I didn't test SD but it appeared to be locking out everything. Perhaps someone else can add a data point.

Regards,
JnC

Another question - Is there anyway to advance a recorded program fram by frame? I've found out how to get to slow motion but it doesn't seem to be adjustable? I know my TiVo can go frame by frame but how about my 8300.Pasport?

Re: SA8300HD Support for DVI W/O HDCP??

I had almost no problems going HDMI to DVI to a Sony rear projection TV. Once in a while I would get the HDCP error message, but powering the cable box off and on would always fix the problem. I would classify it as an annoyance rather than a real problem. It was annoying enough that I switched to component, but only because to my eyes component is equal to DVI.

From what I've read here, with some brands of TV (Toshiba comes to mind), you have to turn the TV on first with HDMI to DVI.

-barry

Originally posted by Impala1ss
Another question - Is there anyway to advance a recorded program fram by frame? I've found out how to get to slow motion but it doesn't seem to be adjustable? I know my TiVo can go frame by frame but how about my 8300.Pasport?

Page 10 of this thread has a list of Tips and Tricks, but here's the info you need now:


Slow Motion - Quickly double-tap the PLAY key. To resume playback hit the PLAY key once.


Slow Motion - Hit PAUSE first, then hold down the Right Arrow key and it goes into Slo-Mo.


Frame by frame advance - hit PAUSE first, then repeatedly tap the Right Arrow key to advance frame by frame

To add my two cents to the SA DVR vs. TIVO:

My TIVO experience was with DirecTiVo which is integrated just like the SA 8300HD is with the cable. The TIVO has two receivers and thus one could record on two channels and watch a third, the same way we can.

I have to say that the TIVO software is far superior in most ways to the TWC SA8300HD. Here are just a few areas where it is better.


The TIVO schedule is two weeks long, not 4 days
TIVO will not record the same program via season pass (record series) if it has been recorded in the past 30 days
Wish lists are great for recording automatically by subject
The TIVO interface is much easier to understand and use, even my wife can use it
Recording to video tape is better, it even will record a title header on the front of the tape.


So, why am I a TWC customer, I'm cheap and the TIVO HD DirecTV unit was $1,000 with just 200-300 incentive from DirecTV.

If TWC wants to start offering DVR's with the TIVO interface, I would change in a minute.

Originally posted by Bismark
I have to say that the TIVO software is far superior in most ways to the TWC SA8300HD. Here are just a few areas where it is better.

* The TIVO schedule is two weeks long, not 4 days Here in Wisconsin, the Time Warner 8300HD displays 7 days of schedule info -- not 4.
* TIVO will not record the same program via season pass (record series) if it has been recorded in the past 30 days I'm not sure why this is a good thing. I can set the 8300HD to record first runs only or all shows (including reruns).
* Wish lists are great for recording automatically by subject Personally, "wish lists" generated by TIVO do not interest me. I have so little time to watch TV -- I truly only watch specific shows anyway.
* The TIVO interface is much easier to understand and use, even my wife can use it Not sure what this means ... but MY wife can use the SA 8300HD with NO problems ;)
* Recording to video tape is better, it even will record a title header on the front of the tape. Are you serious? No thanks to all the fast forwarding and rewinding ... not to mention recording over existing content if it's not in the right place.

I'll take the 8300HD anyday. :cool:

To Reply to JK27:

* TIVO will not record the same program via season pass (record series) if it has been recorded in the past 30 days

I'm not sure why this is a good thing. I can set the 8300HD to record first runs only or all shows (including reruns).

If you set the DVR to record a series for reruns, and the channel, such as the food channel, broadcasts the same show 7 times in one week, guess what? you get 7 copies. So the TIVO feature is very good thing.

* Wish lists are great for recording automatically by subject


Personally, "wish lists" generated by TIVO do not interest me. I have so little time to watch TV -- I truly only watch specific shows anyway.

I understand the time issue, and it applies to me too. However, there are some subjects that I would rather watch than just specific shows. One example is shows about the breed of dog we have, which is rare. So a TIVO will find those shows and record them. If I don't want to watch them, I delete them.


* Recording to video tape is better, it even will record a title header on the front of the tape.

Are you serious? No thanks to all the fast forwarding and rewinding ... not to mention recording over existing content if it's not in the right place.


I don't know about you, but my DVR only has so much room and there are things I want to keep. In fact, now I have a DVD recorder, so the TIVO could now be used for queing recordings for the DVD. I am in the process of copying my tapes to DVD now.


I guess my real point is that I have used both, and clearly the TIVO software is superior to what we now have. I suspect that over the next few years, the differences will diminish, but for now, the TIVO is superior and yet I don't have one because of the cost for HDTV. I offer this as an opinion, not a religious discussion.

Originally posted by Bismark
If you set the DVR to record a series for reruns, and the channel, such as the food channel, broadcasts the same show 7 times in one week, guess what? you get 7 copies. Yeah ... but so what. Or ... in your words ... "If I don't want to watch them, I delete them."

I don't know about you, but my DVR only has so much room and there are things I want to keep. In fact, now I have a DVD recorder, so the TIVO could now be used for queing recordings for the DVD. I have a DVD Recorder, as well, and I can simply copy programs from the 8300HD to my DVD Recorder. Very simple!

I offer this as an opinion, not a religious discussion. I simply offered my opinion, as well -- we are certainly both entitled to state our opinions in this thread. I have no interest in turning this into more than a friendly discussion. ;) One final thought ... when comparing TIVO to the 8300HD, I do believe that it is necessary to factor in COST. In that regard, the 8300HD blows away current comparable TIVO offerings ($1,000 is waaaay too much to pay for TIVO -- no matter how good it is, imho).

HD Recording, dual tuner, $6.95/mo. for the 8300HD ... priceless! :)

Has anyone else seen this problem.
I have my 8300 hooked up to my Samsung DLP via a HDMI->DVI converter and a DVI cable. Whenever I switch the input on the TV (to, say, component to watch a DVD), the 8300 turns off.

When I switch back to DVI I get the no HDCP message. When I power on the 8300 the picture only takes up the top 1/4 of the screen until I change channels, or press guide or something. Annoying to say the least.

Vinny - you have an HLN right? On my HLP I have not experienced that problem and I'm using the DVI input for the 8300.

Yep. The HLN.
At first I thought it was similar to the power-off problem with the Pio 3510, but it's not. What is happening is the 8300 isn't actually turning off, it's just losing the HDCP handshake when I switch inputs.
Pressing the power button at that point doesn't turn it off (even though it is currently on), instead it reestablishes the HDCP.

Has anyone connected the 8300HD to a HDTV via a straight HDMI cable and not had problems with 5.1. If so what TV did you use?

Does anyone have the issue of the DVR being extraordinarily loud? Mine has a high-pitched whine/whirring that is so obnoxious I usually just leave the thing unplugged and watch with my CableCard.

Related question: Is there any way to actually make the device be *off* when you turn it "off"?

Has this been mentioned before? I noticed something over the weekend that may be of interest if you watch MOD. The incremental cursor skip feature of the DVR also works for movies on demand. Hit the info button during the movie to show the timeline and the left and right cursor will jump forward and back 10 minutes. The response is fairly quick as well, which surprised me.

Originally posted by Brad Smith
Related question: Is there any way to actually make the device be *off* when you turn it "off"? Plug it into a power-strip and turn it off using the strip's switch .... or pull the plug. Expect file corruptions problems using this method though. Then again, it surely uses a journaling filesystem and shouldn't have problems related to that.

I'm guessing yours is so loud it's annoying. If it is, there has to be something wrong with yours. I'm not saying I've gotten used to the noise mine makes, but I really don't notice it. If it were "too loud", trust me, I'd complain.

If it's the hard drive's churning sound that you dislike, tune your receiver to an "On Demand" preview channel. Those apparently aren't auto-recorded (or buffered). I don't know what tuner # 2 will do though or do you also have to "PIP Swap" to it and tune to a similar channel.

Originally posted by Brad Smith
Does anyone have the issue of the DVR being extraordinarily loud? Mine has a high-pitched whine/whirring that is so obnoxious I usually just leave the thing unplugged and watch with my CableCard.

I have two of em (side by side) and they're barely audible in a silent room from 8 feet away. The noise they make is a slow tick tick noise similar to a cricket but there's definitely no high pitched whine or whirring noise. I'd say yours is defective and should be replaced.....

Thanks for the replies, guys. I will check to see if my TWC has any extras in. They aren't just handing them out right now, and I think there's a waiting list.

It sucks that there is no real "off" state. What's the point of spinning the hard drive when the thing is off? I understand it needs to still be "on" so it can start future recordings, but the hard drive *has* to be spinning? That's pretty horrible design, IMO.

Anyway, other than that, it's great to be able to record HD, and it works smoothly.

Originally posted by Brad Smith
I understand it needs to still be "on" so it can start future recordings, but the hard drive *has* to be spinning? That's pretty horrible design, IMO.
Apparently this isn't the case with SARA-versioned boxes though... They seem to have a true "idle" or HDD-spin-down setting available.

I've had the 8300 w/Passport (TWC Charlotte) for a couple of months now and just purchased a Samsung HLP-5674W. I was feeding my old CRT with component (480i), now I'm using HDMI>HDMI with the Sammy (720P only). I reprogrammed the 8300 remote to turn on both the box and the TV. Sometimes it only seems to turn on the TV now that I'm using HDMI (the 8300 seems to start up and then shutdown). I've scanned this thread and wonder if it is an HDCP glitch. Is this common? Do I have to use component to avoid this? I can easily enough start the cable box again, but I don't want to have to train other users. Is there a way to delay the 8300 startup for a second or two until after the TV is on? Could a new Harmony remote do this?

Thanks,
Charlie

Originally posted by Brad Smith
Does anyone have the issue of the DVR being extraordinarily loud? Mine has a high-pitched whine/whirring that is so obnoxious I usually just leave the thing unplugged and watch with my CableCard.

I do notice that there is a high pitch sound coming from the 8300HD as if a television was left turned on. I didn't notice this with the 8000HD. The hard drive is a lot more quiet on the 8300HD though.

I haven't read through all of the posts but I still get audio drop outs with HD material via my receiver.. but it is probably happening only 20% of the time it used to happen with the 8000HD.

Originally posted by Brad Smith
It sucks that there is no real "off" state. What's the point of spinning the hard drive when the thing is off? I understand it needs to still be "on" so it can start future recordings, but the hard drive *has* to be spinning? That's pretty horrible design, IMO. What it's doing is maintaining a trick-play buffer for the currently "viewed" channel. If you've been switching back and forth between tuners, it will maintain trick-play buffers for both tuners; if you stay on one tuner for a long while (hours, I think), it'll stop maintaining the buffer for the other, also forgetting whatever channel it was tuned to, lessening the disk activity some, but not eliminating it.

An effective solution which people who use these things in their bedrooms have found is to tune both tuners to unrecordable channels before turning things "off". An unrecordable channel would be a VOD menu channel or PPV preview channel. Tune one, hit the SWAP button, tune it again on the other tuner, then turn your system off. Sweet, sweet silence :D.

Originally posted by NCCharlie
I've had the 8300 w/Passport (TWC Charlotte) for a couple of months now and just purchased a Samsung HLP-5674W. I was feeding my old CRT with component (480i), now I'm using HDMI>HDMI with the Sammy (720P only). I reprogrammed the 8300 remote to turn on both the box and the TV. Sometimes it only seems to turn on the TV now that I'm using HDMI (the 8300 seems to start up and then shutdown). I've scanned this thread and wonder if it is an HDCP glitch. Is this common? Do I have to use component to avoid this? I can easily enough start the cable box again, but I don't want to have to train other users. Is there a way to delay the 8300 startup for a second or two until after the TV is on? Could a new Harmony remote do this?

Thanks,
Charlie

Do you have 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound working with that setup?

Originally posted by NCCharlie
Is there a way to delay the 8300 startup for a second or two until after the TV is on? Could a new Harmony remote do this? I was going to suggest a programmable remote (more programmable than the one supplied). I'm pretty sure if you get into the JP1 type stuff, you can add pauses. Not sure if Harmony remotes are JP1-compatible though. I have a Kameleon remote and as far as I know, there aren't any "pause" codes you can add to a macro.

Originally posted by NCCharlie
I've had the 8300 w/Passport (TWC Charlotte) for a couple of months now and just purchased a Samsung HLP-5674W. I was feeding my old CRT with component (480i), now I'm using HDMI>HDMI with the Sammy (720P only). I reprogrammed the 8300 remote to turn on both the box and the TV. Sometimes it only seems to turn on the TV now that I'm using HDMI (the 8300 seems to start up and then shutdown). I've scanned this thread and wonder if it is an HDCP glitch. Is this common?I'm not sure what's happening, but I do know that HDMI has a device control component, like AV/C commands over A/V netork 1394, except a fixed set and nowhere nearly so powerful. (It's a feature of HDMI called protocol "Consumer Electronics Control". (If you're really interested, see PDF page 47 of this (http://www.hdmi.org/pdf/HDMISpecInformationalVersion.pdf) document--it's old, but the official spec is only available to manufacturers). The spec makes inclusion of CEC in HDMI devices optional, but I suspect that most if not all devices are implementing it--it's one of the dot items on HDMI sales pitch. You can do simple things using HDMI CEC like turn devices on and off, adjust volume, etc See what happens if you change your Harmony definition for viewing the SA8300HD such that your sequence doesn't turn on your television when you switch to it. Of course if it turns the television off when you go to another function, you got problems.

Why do you turn the SA8300HD "off" and "on" anyway? What do you think that accomplishes? I never turn my DVR "off".

As for Dolby 5.1 sound with HDMI, I've noticed that some of the new Samsung televisions have coax or SPDIF outputs on the back for connection to receivers and setup options for enabling 5.1 sound. I wonder what happens when that option is enabled and HDMI is connected from the SA8300HD?

I'm using the SA AT8400 remote. I turned off the Master Power Feature and now have a repeatable issue. With the TV totally off (cooling fan not running anymore), the 8300 seems to turn on (time and power symbol displayed, but output signal not displayed). When I push the remote or unit power switch all it toggles is the power display icon as if it knows the TV isn't on. With the TV in power down/cooling mode (off, but fan running) the 8300 powers up and down normally and shows channel, signal, etc. With the TV on it powers on and off fine although their is a large black area on the screen where the menu normally is (easily cleared with a channel change or other display change). So, I now assume the HDMI has some type of intelligence feature.

I turn the 8300 off due to all the comments in the manual about it being a good idea. Maybe not justified since the disks always seem to be spinning any way, but I'd rather the device last so I don't lose recordings.

I haven't had a chance to play with the Dolby yet. I'll have to find a channel that outputs it. The HLP5674 only has a single video/audio out connection (yellow, white, red) so it can't output 5.1. The soon to be released HLR5677 (same basic guts as the 5674) will have an ATSC tuner but no VGA or DVI might have other outputs, but I'm not sure. I think there is a display feature on the tv that will tell me the sound signal type coming in.

I guess it's time to buy a programmable remote or switch to component cables. My set is extremely tight in a built-in (only .5" total width clearance) so swapping cables isn't easy and requires two people so I'll have to wait to try it out.

Thanks for the help,
Charlie

Originally posted by michaeltscott
I'm not sure what's happening, but I do know that HDMI has a device control component, like AV/C commands over A/V netork 1394, except a fixed set and nowhere nearly so powerful. (It's a feature of HDMI called protocol "Consumer Electronics Control". (If you're really interested, see PDF page 47 of this (http://www.hdmi.org/pdf/HDMISpecInformationalVersion.pdf) document--it's old, but the official spec is only available to manufacturers). The spec makes inclusion of CEC in HDMI devices optional, but I suspect that most if not all devices are implementing it--it's one of the dot items on HDMI sales pitch. You can do simple things using HDMI CEC like turn devices on and off, adjust volume, etc See what happens if you change your Harmony definition for viewing the SA8300HD such that your sequence doesn't turn on your television when you switch to it. Of course if it turns the television off when you go to another function, you got problems.

Why do you turn the SA8300HD "off" and "on" anyway? What do you think that accomplishes? I never turn my DVR "off".

As for Dolby 5.1 sound with HDMI, I've noticed that some of the new Samsung televisions have coax or SPDIF outputs on the back for connection to receivers and setup options for enabling 5.1 sound. I wonder what happens when that option is enabled and HDMI is connected from the SA8300HD?

Does anyone know of a method to perform a reformat of the SA8300HD drives?

NCCharlie -- I think perhaps if the DVR is in "off" mode it's not generating a video or audio signal, for whatever that's worth, so some of the silicon is running cooler. Big woo. As you say, wear and tear on the HDD is the biggest determinant of unit's lifetime, and turning it off won't stop it from churning on the drive, though there are things that you can do which will.

As for making it last longer--for me at least, it's a leased device, so if it stops working I call my provider and get it replaced. When it dies, if it dies while in my possession, which I don't expect it to do, some random number of recordings will be on the drive and will be lost and there will be nothing that I can do about it. The age of the device has nothing to do with it. Whatever :).

Re: HDMI and DD5.1. I've heard from a few people in other forums that their televisions have sound settings that use 5.1 and in them the outputs on the SA8300HD work for DD5.1 (the last guy's TV was a Sony). Almost certainly Digital Cable Ready televisions with ATSC tuners and CableCARD slots are gonna have digital audio connections for receivers and will draw sound from HDMI.

As an aside, there are at least a couple of companies making receivers which will switch HDMI video, playing the sound component directly from the wire and passing the video on the the television. With one of those, you'd connect an HDMI cable from the DVR to the receiver and one from the receiver to the television, with no second audio cable necessary from the DVR. Some of Denon's high-end receivers have this as well as some inexpensive Panasonics. Both companies make DVD players that can be connected to the receivers in the same way.

With Dish's DVRs, turning the box "off" effectively disables the video/audio outputs.

My problem could just be a bad set. My 5674 died this morning after less than a week. I'm waiting on Tweeter's call to get a new one. Hopefully my issues won't happen on the new one, if so I've got a work-around.

Charlie

Originally posted by michaeltscott

Re: HDMI and DD5.1. I've heard from a few people in other forums that their televisions have sound settings that use 5.1 and in them the outputs on the SA8300HD work for DD5.1 (the last guy's TV was a Sony). Almost certainly Digital Cable Ready televisions with ATSC tuners and CableCARD slots are gonna have digital audio connections for receivers and will draw sound from HDMI.


I have a Digital Cable Ready TV (a Pioneer Plasma). It does not appear to accept 5.1 over the HDMI port.

Has anyone tried the HDMI to a Sony 55XS955?

I just ordered an HDMI from Blue Jeans Cables, wondering if it'll work with 5.1 if I turn off the Sony TV speaker.

Also does this give any picture enhancement with HDMI versus components?

Archiving HD Shows?:

Has anybody come up with a method of archiving HD shows from the 8300HD? I guess I'm looking for a DVHS deck or a PC card/USB device with component inputs or HDMI inputs. All the ones I've found so far are designed for OTA broadcasts and have component or HDMI outputs, but not inputs.

-barry

I think all my initial frustration with the 8300 was unfounded. It appears the HDMI port does have intelligence. If I only turn the TV on and off the 8300 automatically goes into a shutdown mode. Now if I could only get a new TV or one that will work... Some decent instructions on the 8300 would be nice.

Originally posted by NCCharlie
My problem could just be a bad set. My 5674 died this morning after less than a week. I'm waiting on Tweeter's call to get a new one. Hopefully my issues won't happen on the new one, if so I've got a work-around.

Charlie

I just checked in the 8300 manual I downloaded a few months ago from the SA site and found some info about Dolby over HDMI. The pdf won't let me cut and paste so I'll summarize. Basically the 8300 determines if the TV can handle Dolby and changes it's output. You can over-ride this in settings.

Charlie

The cable I purchased says it is HDCP capable. My has a DVI input and the manual says the DVI input is HDCP capable. When I connect the 8300HD it says that my TV does not support the HDCP protocol. TimeWarner was no help, they say I need a firmware update to my TV? How is this accomplished?

The TV is a LG 52" DLP. It's about 6 months old.

Thanks!

Originally posted by NCCharlie
I just checked in the 8300 manual I downloaded a few months ago from the SA site and found some info about Dolby over HDMI. The pdf won't let me cut and paste so I'll summarize. Basically the 8300 determines if the TV can handle Dolby and changes it's output. You can over-ride this in settings.

Charlie

Not if you are running Pioneer Passport. Has anyone been able to get any audio over the HDMI btw?

Originally posted by ADGrant
I have a Digital Cable Ready TV (a Pioneer Plasma). It does not appear to accept 5.1 over the HDMI port. Hmmm. I was reading the manual for a recent DCR Samsung and it had a sound setting for DD5.1 output. Are you sure that your television doesn't? I'm not saying that it should have a setting that associates it with HDMI, like "Output 5.1 HDMI Audio". Just "Output 5.1 Audio" or something like that.

HDMI, and DVI, for that matter, has a channel called DDC. This is also part of the VESA standard used in the familiar analog connector for computer monitors. This channel is used by the source (i.e., things like a computer graphics card or your DVR) to obtain a data structure from the sink (i.e., things like your computer monitor or television) called EDID--Extended Display Identification Data. This structure has stuff in it like the geometry capabilities of the display, supported timing modes, model name, etc). HDMI devices return a structure called the E-EDID or Enhanced-EDID. This is a version of the EDID which can contain some additional information, among them the supported audio formats of the sink.

If, upon connecting to the display, the DVR sees in the E-EDID that it supports a particular audio format, that's the audio format that it will produce and send to the display for output. Since it only has one audio chip, it presumably can only convert the MPEG audio to one format of PCM using it, and it sends out that conversion over all of the digital audio outputs, HDMI, coax and optical.

A reasonable television implementation (IMHO) should have a setting which would disable its speakers. After that has been done, it would then give an indication in its E-EDID that it didn't support audio which would stop the DVR from sending it. Apparently, some televisions do this.

Unfortunately, very few televisions provide a "reasonable implementation", and it's a feature that would tend to trip up users anyway. SARA's solution of providing an option to break HDMI's protocol is the best work-around. HDMI audio should be disabled by default.

If you're interested, you can find some details of HDMI in the HDMI Specification (Information Version) (http://www.hdmi.org/pdf/HDMISpecInformationalVersion.pdf). This informational version is over a year old, but the latest and greatest official version is apparently available only to manufacturers.