Since the other huge thread has many people "confused" because of the different software used, I'd like to create a new one for this box but only for Passport software boxes.

Passport Echo Getting Started Guide (http://www.aptivdigital.com/pdf/passportecho1.6gettingstarted.pdf)

Passport tips and tricks post (added 4/10/05)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722

My questions:

1) Has anyone figured out or heard if it will happen that you can "hide" channels in the program guide ?? As it is, every channel TW offers is visible. I don't appreciate my 5-year old being able to see programs like "Slutty Housewives" or "The Four-Finger Club" in the list. With Dish Network's boxes, you could toggle between "All Channels" and "Subscribed Channels" with the guide button.

2) How do I get "Stretch" mode on 4:3 channels to "stick". It seems like you have to do it on any new channel you view. We've only had this box since Friday so there's actually lots of channels we haven't seen yet. For example, if I tune to channel "7", I have to tell it to stretch it. Change to "16" and I have to stretch it again. If I go back to "7", it seems to remember the stretch setting.

I do have the box set that my TV is 16:9/Widescreen and to stretch 4:3 channels. I really don't see where the second setting does anything though.

1) Has anyone figured out or heard if it will happen that you can "hide" channels in the program guide ?
No, you cannot. SARA doesn't offer this either.

With rare exception (like Moxi and MS Foundation Edition boxes), cable boxes don't let you hide channels from the program guide. This has been a standard feature on Dish and DirecTV receivers for the past five years, but the cable companies haven't caught on yet.

This has been a standard feature on Dish and DirecTV receivers for the past five years, but the cable companies haven't caught on yet. Someone else mentioned that this way, the cable companies get you to see the channels that you are "missing" or not getting. I can assure Time Warner, they are NOT going to entice me to add them on ! :D

Passport Set up

Thanks for setting up a place for sa 8000hd Passport people. I am on TWC Middletown NY. My questions are

1-has anyone been able to use the set up guide? When I follow the instructions in the manual I get a message on my tv ( Toshiba 42H82) screen that says turn on cable box. I do but the box just turns on normally.

2-My old hd box (3250 I think it was) allowed me to have HD on a seperate video connection on my tv than the SD broadcast. I was able to watch this through a seperate S-video connection.

Now all signals come through on the component cables

I am able to select in the settings menu aspect ratioand ouput formats where the selections are 1080i, 720p, 480i, and 480p. None seem to improve the sd or regular channel broadcast.

3-Where can I find info on the software (version, hd capacity etc..)

Thanks

John POpowitz

1-has anyone been able to use the set up guide? When I follow the instructions in the manual I get a message on my tv ( Toshiba 42H82) screen that says turn on cable box. I do but the box just turns on normally. I read in another thread somewhere that it appears that the "wizard" doesn't exist on the Passport-versioned boxes. That really appears to be true. I was NOT able to get it to run either, but there's nothing in it that you can't do in the regular "Settings", then "A, More Settings".
3-Where can I find info on the software (version, hd capacity etc..) Off the top of my head, I think you hold down "Info" and "Exit" on the front-panel. When the display reads "DIAG" release and press "Exit" again. If that doesn't work, try "Select" (the middle button in the up, down, left, right section) and "Info". In some cases, you may have to tune to channel 611. When you get in, use the up/down buttons either on the front-panel or the remote.

Originally posted by upsjopop
[B]Passport Set up

2-My old hd box (3250 I think it was) allowed me to have HD on a seperate video connection on my tv than the SD broadcast. I was able to watch this through a seperate S-video connection.

Now all signals come through on the component cables

I am able to select in the settings menu aspect ratioand ouput formats where the selections are 1080i, 720p, 480i, and 480p. None seem to improve the sd or regular channel broadcast.


It is a known issue with the only available output being Component Out. They will incorporate these functions as they release new versions of the firmware. Currently SA is working on perfecting the HD output and the DVR of the HD feed (from what I have been told). User "browerjs" has more information on this, he has an engineering contact within the TW WOH division.

Well I sure hope they'd hurry with the "perfecting the HD output and the DVR of the HD feed" :)

TM

I'm going to sticky this, at least for awhile, since Ken stuck the other SA8000HD thread. I want people to be able to see both and comment in the appropriate thread.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Well I sure hope they'd hurry with the "perfecting the HD output and the DVR of the HD feed" :)

TM

Hopefully this will include enabling the DVI (or HDMI) port.

Originally posted by hall
I think you hold down "Info" and "Exit" on the front-panel. When the display reads "DIAG" release and press "Exit" again. If that doesn't work, try "Select" (the middle button in the up, down, left, right section) and "Info". In some cases, you may have to tune to channel 611. When you get in, use the up/down buttons either on the front-panel or the remote. On my system, with the cable box turned on, it's hold down "Info" and "Exi"t until the STB display reads "DIAG" and release (no extra press of "Exit"); then the diag menus are accessible on channel 961. I've heard that the channel varies from system to system.

There's also a channel in the 990's which always has a diagnostic synopsis with firmware version and a few other things in it; your system might be different.

I've had my 8000HD (Passport Echo 1.5.151) for a couple of weeks now and have a couple of questions:

First, does anyone in the Dayton area (TW-West. OH) have any idea when the next software update to enable DVI and S-video, composite is planned?

Second- several times, when trying to play a recorded program, the box locks up. It goes to a gray screen and I can't do anything other than re-boot. Generally, after the re-boot, the play back will be normal. Has anyone else seen this problem?

Third- is there any passthrough? Even though my outputs on the HDDVR set for 1080i and 480i, I seem to be getting only 1080i output even to SD stations, no 480i.

Fourth- does anyone have an actual email address to send some technical questions to TW-West. OH or have a decent contact? I can't seem to get any straight answers and can't find any "contact" info on the website except for their stupid automated answers.

Thanks,
Bob

Originally posted by rrleon1
Third- is there any passthrough? Even though my outputs on the HDDVR set for 1080i and 480i, I seem to be getting only 1080i output even to SD stations, no 480i.



Bob,

I'm in NYC but have the same SW version as you. I cannot get pass through either. Basically I figured out that if you select 480i and ANY other output format, nothing will be displayed in 480i (if only 480i is selected, than everything will be 480i). If 480p is selected, 480i will be displayed as 480p. If 480p is NOT selected but 720p IS selected, than 480i will come in as 720p. If neither 480p nor 720p are selected but 1080i is selected, than 480i will come in as 1080i.

Since I have a 720p native display I found the PQ was dramatically better at 720p than 480p, so I select 720p and 1080i only. This gives me pass through for HD channels and scales/deinterlaces all 480i channels to 720p.

Originally posted by rrleon1
Second- several times, when trying to play a recorded program, the box locks up. It goes to a gray screen and I can't do anything other than re-boot. Generally, after the re-boot, the play back will be normal. Has anyone else seen this problem? Yes, I've had similar instances of that. I was thinking that it also happened if I tuned to a channel that was being recorded... I hadn't had it happen enough times to really pinpoint exactly what the circumstances were though.

Yesterday, I also had the DVR functions seem to lock up on me. I could open and close the guide, change channels, etc, etc, but no DVR functions (List, Pause, Rewind, etc) would work. Req'd a reboot to "fix" that...

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Well I sure hope they'd hurry with the "perfecting the HD output and the DVR of the HD feed" :)

TM

Indeed.

Originally posted by rrleon1
Third- is there any passthrough? Even though my outputs on the HDDVR set for 1080i and 480i, I seem to be getting only 1080i output even to SD stations, no 480i.


I'm in the Dayton area and have the same problems. If I have 1080i selected as an Output Format, I can not get 480i output.

This is especially annoying since the coax and s-video outputs are disabled. I'd rather view SD content at 480i and use my TV's stretch mode, which is far superior to the SA box. If anyone knows how to fix this, or when the other outputs will be enabled, that would be great.

Originally posted by bshow456
I'm in the Dayton area and have the same problems. If I have 1080i selected as an Output Format, I can not get 480i output.

This is especially annoying since the coax and s-video outputs are disabled. I'd rather view SD content at 480i and use my TV's stretch mode, which is far superior to the SA box. If anyone knows how to fix this, or when the other outputs will be enabled, that would be great.

This is one of the biggest design shortcomings of the 8000HD. The box has an HD mode and SD mode, which is not obvious at all and whichi s a pain to switch to/from (you need to actually press buttons on the box, not the remote). If you are in the HD mode, then only the component out is enabled - none of the other outputs work (except if you have the Archive to VCR function enabled, in which case you can output whatever is in the PIP window over composite or S-Vid). In addition, in the HD mode, if you have 480i and any other format selected as a supported output format (see my post just above), then 480i is converted into either 480p, 720p or 1080i, depending on which other formats are chosen. If you are in SD mode, then the S-Video, Coax and composite outputs all work.

It's anybody's guess as to when (or IF) they will allow the box to output over component and one of the other outputs at the same time. Possibly when DVI is enabled, you will be able to use DVI in conjunction with the other outputs, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Originally posted by rrleon1 Third- is there any passthrough? Even though my outputs on the HDDVR set for 1080i and 480i, I seem to be getting only 1080i output even to SD stations, no 480i. How do you tell it's not 480i ??

Originally posted by EricScott
The box has an HD mode and SD mode, which is not obvious at all and whichi s a pain to switch to/from (you need to actually press buttons on the box, not the remote).
...
If you are in SD mode, then the S-Video, Coax and composite outputs all work.


Does the box need to be in HD mode to output 1080i? I assume so, or else everyone would just be running in SD mode.

Originally posted by hall
How do you tell it's not 480i ??

Depends on your TV, but most sets have a feature which tells you what resolution is being fed to the current input. On my Samsung HLP, if I hit the "Info" button on the remote, a little screen pops up with the current resolution.

Originally posted by bshow456
Does the box need to be in HD mode to output 1080i? I assume so, or else everyone would just be running in SD mode.

Yes. SD mode outputs 480i only.

HD mode outputs 480p, 720p and 1080i (depending on what you have selected in the Settings menu for supported output formats). The one exception is if you choose 480i as the ONLY selected output (makes no sense for an HD channel), in which case 480i is output in HD mode, but still only over Component (I believe).

Originally posted by EricScott
This is one of the biggest design shortcomings of the 8000HD. The box has an HD mode and SD mode, which is not obvious at all and whichi s a pain to switch to/from (you need to actually press buttons on the box, not the remote) .... Might this be dependent on the TV you are using? The reason I ask is that I have the 8000HD connected to a Sony 53" KP-HS10 ... and when I switch between an HD channel and a SD channel, the TV automatically switches from one mode to the other. I do not need to press any buttons on the 8000HD remote OR the box. My Sony can display 1080i (and does so for all HD channels) and can also display 480i and 480p (although I've only told the 8000HD that it can display 1080i and 480p).

So, as for a "design shortcoming" -- I don't see it -- at least for viewing HD/SD sources.

If, on the other hand, you are talking about switching between HD and SD for archival purposes -- you're right ... Pioneer Passport needs to have an "Archive to VCR" function like the SARA software!

JK27

Originally posted by EricScott
Depends on your TV, but most sets have a feature which tells you what resolution is being fed to the current input. On my Samsung HLP, if I hit the "Info" button on the remote, a little screen pops up with the current resolution. Hmm, I've got a Toshiba 57H83 and I don't recall anything like that. I do know that I am unable to use the TV's stretch/zoom modes at all with this box. Why ?? It's only allowed when the TV is receiving a 480i signal. So even though I've got 1080i and 480i selected in the output modes, it's clearly NOT outputting 480i on standard-def channels.

Originally posted by hall
How do you tell it's not 480i ?? On my Sony, every time the mode switches, the new mode is displayed on green letters on the lower left for 5-10 seconds (e.g., 480p, 1080i, 480i, etc.)

JK27

Originally posted by hall
Hmm, I've got a Toshiba 57H83 and I don't recall anything like that. I do know that I am unable to use the TV's stretch/zoom modes at all with this box. Why ?? It's only allowed when the TV is receiving a 480i signal. So even though I've got 1080i and 480i selected in the output modes, it's clearly NOT outputting 480i on standard-def channels.

Hmm, I have the Toshiba 51H83 and I believe that it will allow you to stretch 480i or 480p signals.

I'm not sure if I have tried setting the 8000HD to 1080i and 480p formats. If it does indeed switch to 480p for SD content, as posted above that would solve my problem.

Is there an easy way to check HD utilization w/o going to diag mode? I haven't found out yet.

Originally posted by kilmar
Is there an easy way to check HD utilization w/o going to diag mode? Nope .... at least I've NEVER seen it posted anywhere if so.

Originally posted by JK27
Might this be dependent on the TV you are using? The reason I ask is that I have the 8000HD connected to a Sony 53" KP-HS10 ... and when I switch between an HD channel and a SD channel, the TV automatically switches from one mode to the other. I do not need to press any buttons on the 8000HD remote OR the box. My Sony can display 1080i (and does so for all HD channels) and can also display 480i and 480p (although I've only told the 8000HD that it can display 1080i and 480p).

So, as for a "design shortcoming" -- I don't see it -- at least for viewing HD/SD sources.

JK27

JK27,

Not sure I understand your post. When you say your box is switching "modes" when you go from an HD channel to an SD channel, what exactly is happening? You aren't talking about the stretch/zoom/sidebar modes are you?

On my 8000HD I selected 720p and 1080i as the only supported output formats (I thought 720p looked better than 480p for 480i channels connected to my Samsung w/ a 720p NR). When I am watching a 1080i HD channel, it comes through as 1080i. When I am watching a 720p HD channel it comes through as 720p. When I am watching any 480i channel, it comes through as 720p as well. If I had selected 480i as a supported output format as well, this behavior would be identical - 480i is still converted to 720p (or 480p if that was selected).

My Samsung is one of the newer HLPs, which has component inputs that accept all 4 resolutions - 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i, unlike some of the older models which didn't accept all 4. So I don't think it is an equipment issue.

I guess I'm just confused with your description of "changing modes". If in fact you can pass 480i for 480i channels and 1080i or 720p for HD channels over component, then either your box or your TV works differently than mine.

BTW, I have v. 151 of the Passport software.

Originally posted by bshow456
Hmm, I have the Toshiba 51H83 and I believe that it will allow you to stretch 480i or 480p signals. Yes, it does allow you to stretch those modes. Maybe I phrased my comment above poorly, but to clarify, I have the SA8000HD box set to output 1080i and 480i. When I've got a channel displaying HD, I don't expect it to allow stretching. When I'm watching a non-HD channel though, if I press the "PIC SIZE" button on my Toshiba's remote, it displays "Not available" on the screen. That implies that it's receiving 720p or 1080i (page 30 of my owner's manual). I can use the "#" button on the 8000HD's remote to cycle between sidebar, zoom, and stretch though. The button in the lower-left, "Input Source", I believe, also does this. I'd rather use, or at least try, the Toshiba's scalar to see which does a better job.

A few things from my Toshiba's manual:

Viewing the wide-screen picture formats
(480i and 480p signals only)

and

The PICTURE SIZE feature is not available for some program formats (such as 1080i and 720p). Such formats will display in Natural picture size.

One of the biggest problems with the box is the innability to watch a currently recorded program from the begining (you can only back up about an hour). It's pretty pathetic that the software doesn't allow for this. Ideally, you should be able to tune to the channel your recording and back it up all the way to the begining of the recording. I ahd that feature when I used Ultimate TV. But at the very least, you should be able to go to recorded programs and begin watching from the start of the recording.

In any event, there is a simple, if inconveinent fix for when you want to time shift a ballgame. Today I will want to start watching the Red Sox v. Angels game at around 6:00. I will record the game from the begining and when I'm ready to start watching I will stop the recording and then immediately start a new recording to catch the rest of the game. That way I have the game in two pieces. I can watch the first part (which is now a completed recording) from the start and then fire up part II when ready. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.

Originally posted by zEli173
One of the biggest problems with the box is the innability to watch a currently recorded program from the begining (you can only back up about an hour). It's pretty pathetic that the software doesn't allow for this. Ideally, you should be able to tune to the channel your recording and back it up all the way to the begining of the recording. I ahd that feature when I used Ultimate TV. But at the very least, you should be able to go to recorded programs and begin watching from the start of the recording. I do this all the time ... if a show is currently being recorded, just go to LIST and then select "Play from the Beginning". No problem!

JK27

I've seen someone else post a workaround similar, if not identical, to yours. What software version are you running ?? I'm not sure but I'm almost positive that we're able to start watching a program, from the beginning, that's currently recording. I could be wrong though.... We've only had ours for days.

Dish's DVR definitely allows you to watch it while it's recording. As soon as it starts recording, it appears as a recorded "event" and you have the normal play, resume, start over, etc, options.

This will be a real annoyance if it's not fixed. We've gotten into the habit of starting to watch 3rd Watch, for example, which starts at 9pm, at 9:20 or 9:30 and staying behind enough that we can skip all the commercials.

Originally posted by EricScott
JK27,

Not sure I understand your post. When you say your box is switching "modes" when you go from an HD channel to an SD channel, what exactly is happening? You aren't talking about the stretch/zoom/sidebar modes are you?

On my 8000HD I selected 720p and 1080i as the only supported output formats (I thought 720p looked better than 480p for 480i channels connected to my Samsung w/ a 720p NR). When I am watching a 1080i HD channel, it comes through as 1080i. When I am watching a 720p HD channel it comes through as 720p. When I am watching any 480i channel, it comes through as 720p as well. If I had selected 480i as a supported output format as well, this behavior would be identical - 480i is still converted to 720p (or 480p if that was selected).

My Samsung is one of the newer HLPs, which has component inputs that accept all 4 resolutions - 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i, unlike some of the older models which didn't accept all 4. So I don't think it is an equipment issue.

I guess I'm just confused with your description of "changing modes". If in fact you can pass 480i for 480i channels and 1080i or 720p for HD channels over component, then either your box or your TV works differently than mine.

BTW, I have v. 151 of the Passport software. I don't know what version of the Passport software I have, but I will check. As for "switching modes", I meant that my TV actually switches between 1080i to 480p or vice versa. It usually takes a couple of seconds to switch. When I tune my 8000HD to a SD channel, I get 480p full-screen on my 4:3 Sony. When I tune my 8000HD to a HD channel, I get 1080i with black bars on top and bottom. Is that more clear?

OR, are you talking about recording the feed to a VCR, for example?

JK27

Originally posted by JK27
I do this all the time ... if a show is currently being recorded, just go to LIST and then select "Play from the Beginning". No problem!

JK27

There is no option to "play from the begining" on my software until the recording is finished.

Originally posted by JK27
I don't know what version of the Passport software I have, but I will check. As for "switching modes", I meant that my TV actually switches between 1080i to 480p or vice versa. It usually takes a couple of seconds to switch. When I tune my 8000HD to a SD channel, I get 480p full-screen on my 4:3 Sony. When I tune my 8000HD to a HD channel, I get 1080i with black bars on top and bottom. Is that more clear?

OR, are you talking about recording the feed to a VCR, for example?

JK27

JK27,

Makes sense now - we were talking about different things. I was saying that I don't think you can watch 480i as 480i on your TV and it looks like you can't (you can watch 480p but not 480i). The box converts 480i to 480p in your case and 720p in mine. In terms of sidebars, picture modes, etc, I agree that this is highly dependent on yoru TV and your preferences of course.

Just want to be clear that you cannot pass 480i and an HD format (720p or 1080i) over component at the same time without going into the menus on your cable box and messing with the settings.

Originally posted by zEli173
There is no option to "play from the begining" on my software until the recording is finished. Do you have Passport or SARA software? I have Passport. If I am recording a 2 hour movie ... I simply press the green List button, select the show that is recording (indicated with a red dot to the left of the show) and then select "Play" or "Play from the Beginning". Not sure which version Passport software I have.

JK27

Originally posted by hall
I've seen someone else post a workaround similar, if not identical, to yours. What software version are you running ?? I'm not sure but I'm almost positive that we're able to start watching a program, from the beginning, that's currently recording. I could be wrong though.... We've only had ours for days.

This will be a real annoyance if it's not fixed. We've gotten into the habit of starting to watch 3rd Watch, for example, which starts at 9pm, at 9:20 or 9:30 and staying behind enough that we can skip all the commercials.

The box will allow you to back up to the begining of the buffer (usually about an hour), but not to the begining of the recording. So it's not a problem to watch most shows since the buffer exceeds the length of the show. It's really only a problem for sporting events and movies.

I do not know what software version I'm runnning. I've been trying for days to figure that out but none of the combinations of button pushing that I've seen posted in these forums or listed in my users manuel has worked. Anyone else in NYC know how to get the software info?

Originally posted by zEli173
The box will allow you to back up to the begining of the buffer (usually about an hour), but not to the begining of the recording. So it's not a problem to watch most shows since the buffer exceeds the length of the show. It's really only a problem for sporting events and movies.

I do not know what software version I'm runnning. I've been trying for days to figure that out but none of the combinations of button pushing that I've seen posted in these forums or listed in my users manuel has worked. Anyone else in NYC know how to get the software info?

zEli173 and JK27,

The ability or inability to start an currently recording show from the beginning (or before the buffer) is dependent on your software version. I previously had v.062, which let me watch shows from the beginning that were currently recording. Then I got a software update to v.151 and I am having the same problem that zEli173 is describing. So the newer software has the bug, the older one doesn't.

In NYC to get into the diagnostics screen, hold "Select" or "+" and "Exit" at the same time until "Diag" appears on the screen, then hit these buttons again (just once) and you should be in Diag mode. One of the screens lists the software versions.

Since you are in NYC, zEli173, I think you have the same software as me, which has the problem. An easy way to tell is if you go into the IPG and see a little TV Guide logo, you have the same version as me.

NOTE - I went back and checked previous posts and I currently have v.151 and previously had v.062. I have edited my previous posts to reflect this. Sorry for the confusion.

Got it to work. I'm running version 1.5.151 (I guess that is aka v.151) ... I do, however, have the TV Guide bug in my program guide.

On a side note, the system should give you info on hard drive space when you go into "list".

zEli173,

Went back and checked and I too have 1.5.151 (with the TV Guide logo and the problem watching recording shows from the beginning). Previously I had 1.5.062 (not sure where I came up with 1.5.175 but I have edited my posts to eliminate confusion).

Eric

Originally posted by hall
Yes, it does allow you to stretch those modes. Maybe I phrased my comment above poorly, but to clarify, I have the SA8000HD box set to output 1080i and 480i. When I've got a channel displaying HD, I don't expect it to allow stretching. When I'm watching a non-HD channel though, if I press the "PIC SIZE" button on my Toshiba's remote, it displays "Not available" on the screen. That implies that it's receiving 720p or 1080i (page 30 of my owner's manual). I can use the "#" button on the 8000HD's remote to cycle between sidebar, zoom, and stretch though. The button in the lower-left, "Input Source", I believe, also does this. I'd rather use, or at least try, the Toshiba's scalar to see which does a better job.

A few things from my Toshiba's manual:

Viewing the wide-screen picture formats
(480i and 480p signals only)

and

The PICTURE SIZE feature is not available for some program formats (such as 1080i and 720p). Such formats will display in Natural picture size.

My manual says the same thing. I haven't tried this yet, but I think it will work.

You have your box set to 1080i and 480i. The box incorrectly will upconvert the 480i signal to 1080i, therefore making your TV unable to scale the picture.

But, if you set the 8000HD to 1080i and 480p, the box will convert the 480i signal to 480p, and you should now be able to use the PIC SIZE feature on your TV.

Again, I'll try this when I get home and post the results.

Yes, I agree that setting it to 480p instead of 480i should (will) allow my TV to do the scaling. I think the issue is, according to others, that the the box really does NOT output anything other than 1080i currently.

I'll also try this when I get home.

As of a few days ago, I'm also running software v1.5.151. Passport version is something like 6.4.1.10sp... Will update this tonight from home.

Originally posted by hall
I think the issue is, according to others, that the the box really does NOT output anything other than 1080i currently.



hall,

This statement is not correct (or it shouldn't be). bshow has it correct - if you have 480i and 1080i selected, everything gets passed as 1080i. However if you enable 480p as well (doesn't matter if 480i is on or off), then 480i gets converted to 480p. So the box is capable of outputting 480p, 720p and 1080i over component, but NOT 480i. What is stupid is that there is really no reason for the box to not be able to also output 480i, which would let your TV deinterlace the picture instead of the box.

Do what bshow suggested and it should work fine.

Does anyone know of any remote shortcuts, programming shortcuts in the diagnosis mode, etc. that enable cool things like slomo, 30 second forward skip, etc.? If so, this would be a great place to post them.

EricScott, just verifying your statement now.... I actually had mine set to output 1080i and 480p -- I'd changed it but since doing that, never tried my TV's scale options.

Now, when watching a non-digital/HD channel, my TV's "Pic Size" button does work, but it will NOT stretch it to fill the screen. :( All four or five options are available though.

Also, someone mentioned that their TV will display what format is being received. Not mine.... "Info" just tells me the picture size (Full, Natural, etc), the input that's currently on, and one other thing that I don't recall at the moment.

DJ, according to the people over at Yahoo! Groups for the Explorer 8000, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/explorer_8000/, Scientific Atlanta actually physically removed or disabled the 30-second skip option from the software. It used to work with a programmable remote but no more, or at least no one's figured it out again.

Okay, another question from me:

When viewing the program guide, in the upper-left it displays the channel name/number. Occasionally it will have a "star" next to the channel number. This seems to indicate that the show is in High-Definition. It ONLY appears on my HD-capable channels (Showtime HD, HBO-HD, DiscoveryHD, and some locals) and does NOT appear on ALL shows.

Is that what it means ??

Originally posted by DJ Frustration
Does anyone know of any remote shortcuts, programming shortcuts in the diagnosis mode, etc. that enable cool things like slomo, 30 second forward skip, etc.? If so, this would be a great place to post them.

Don't exist, thanks to the friendly folks at Scientific Atlanta (spineless weasels). But if you're clever enough, you can create 30-sec skip (and any other interval you want) if you have enough patience and a good universal remote that will allow you to enter delays into macros. Other folks have done it, but nobody's posted their "formula" yet that I've seen...

Originally posted by hall
EricScott, just verifying your statement now.... I actually had mine set to output 1080i and 480p -- I'd changed it but since doing that, never tried my TV's scale options.

Now, when watching a non-digital/HD channel, my TV's "Pic Size" button does work, but it will NOT stretch it to fill the screen. :( All four or five options are available though.

Also, someone mentioned that their TV will display what format is being received. Not mine.... "Info" just tells me the picture size (Full, Natural, etc), the input that's currently on, and one other thing that I don't recall at the moment.

hall,

I can't really comment on the picture size options of your TV - I have a hard enough time understanding the options on my own TV :) On my Samsung though, if you pass a 480i or 480p signal over component you have options which include 2 zoom modes, 2 stretch modes (Wide and Panorama both stetch 4:3) and 1 standard mode (4:3). If you pass the Samsung a 720p or 1080i signal the only options are "Wide" and "4:3". So it sounds like your TV would behave similarly.

Is your set a CRT? If it is, what is the native resolution(s)? If it's 480i and 1080i, then choosing 1080i only may yield better PQ - all channels will be displayed as 1080i, so the box will scale 480i but not deinterlace it. You really just have to try both (480p and 1080i is option #1 and 1080i only is option #2) and decide which you prefer.

As far as the little star next to the channel in the IPG, I'm pretty sure that just means that the selected channel is a "Favorite". If you go into the menus you can enable favorite channels which you can then cycle through by hitting the favorite button on your 8000HD remote. To tell if a program is in HD, hit the Info button while viewing the IPG entry and scroll down a few pages and there will a little HDTV notation in the guide info.

Originally posted by DJ Frustration
Does anyone know of any remote shortcuts, programming shortcuts in the diagnosis mode, etc. that enable cool things like slomo, 30 second forward skip, etc.? If so, this would be a great place to post them.

A couple of cool features:
- slo-mo -- while playing a recording, press the play button twice quickly
- 15 minute skip in either direction -- while FF or REW, press the left or
right arrow twice quickly in the direction that you're moving to skip 15 minutes in that
direction
- frame advance - while in pause mode, press the right arrow to move forward 1 single frame. Press the left arrow to skip back a few frames at a time.

Originally posted by archiguy
Don't exist, thanks to the friendly folks at Scientific Atlanta (spineless weasels). But if you're clever enough, you can create 30-sec skip (and any other interval you want) if you have enough patience and a good universal remote that will allow you to enter delays into macros. Other folks have done it, but nobody's posted their "formula" yet that I've seen...

i don't know much about programminmg a macros on a universal remote, but in the files section over on the yahoo group there is a file named "RadioShack 1994 remote dump w/30 second/3 minute skip macros "

might want to check it out.

My TV is a CRT (rear-projection). It's native resolution is 1080i (and 540p ??). I have the option of up-converting 480, not sure if it's "i" or "p" or both, to either 540p or 1080i. It's currently set to 1080i.

I know I'd changed something different than before because when changing from a digital/hd channel to a standard channel, the screen flickers and is somewhat slow changing between modes. It did not do this originally. I'm thinking it's done since I changed the 8000HD's options from 1080i/480i to 1080i/480p. Dunno ... and am not going to worry about it anymore. :)

You're right, the star does means it's a favorite. Just so happens that *all* of the possible HD channels I receive I've tagged as favorites !! :D

Originally posted by JK27
I do this all the time ... if a show is currently being recorded, just go to LIST and then select "Play from the Beginning". No problem! I just tried this and I don't have any option like that. I've got Play, Record options...., Erase, and so on. Nothing like "Start over" or "Play from beginning". I've got 'Days of Thunder' recording and I'm watching another channel.... Hit 'List', choose 'Days of Thunder', and that's what I get. :(

Edit: If the recording is *done*, a "Play from beginning" option *does* appear. Just confirmed that.

Again, my software version is 1.5.151.

I'm going to have the DVR-Expert, my wife, look at it shortly. ;)

Originally posted by zEli173
i don't know much about programminmg a macros on a universal remote, but in the files section over on the yahoo group there is a file named "RadioShack 1994 remote dump w/30 second/3 minute skip macros "

might want to check it out.

Right. Somebody worked it out based on that particular RatShack remote, "proprietary" to it. I have a URC MX-800 that allows me to program .1 sec delays into macros and I plan to puzzle it out one day when I have time. The 30 sec. macro will probably look something like, oh say, hit the FF button twice; 1.3 sec delay; play. Something like that. It'll take a lot of experimentation to get it right, I suspect.

And when I do, I'll be a good little AVS'er and post the results. :)

Just verified the 480p setting on my set. If the 8000HD is set to 1080i and 480p it does output 480i content at 480p allowing me to use the stretch modes on my TV. This is much nicer than having the DVR do it.

Now if the TV could just switch from 1080i to 480p faster I would be all set. I have the same problem as hall with the slow changing from an HD channel to SD channel. However, it is a result of my TV not the DVR.

Originally posted by hall
I just tried this and I don't have any option like that. I've got Play, Record options...., Erase, and so on. Nothing like "Start over" or "Play from beginning". I've got 'Days of Thunder' recording and I'm watching another channel.... Hit 'List', choose 'Days of Thunder', and that's what I get. :(

Edit: If the recording is *done*, a "Play from beginning" option *does* appear. Just confirmed that.

Again, my software version is 1.5.151.

I'm going to have the DVR-Expert, my wife, look at it shortly. ;) I just successfully did this again tonight. I recorded the VP Debate. While it was still recording (it had recorded about 1 hour and 45 minutes out of 2 hours), I pressed the green "List" button, selected the VP Debate and pressed "Play". It started to play the debate *from the beginning* and I was able to watch the entire debate (with pause, FF, rew, the whole deal) -- while it was still recording the rest of the debate. Pretty cool!

I just checked and my Passport software version is 1.5.151 with a date of 8/23/04. :cool:

TWC, 8000HD with Passport here.

Found that pressing + and Exit on 8000HD box did not access Diag screens as some have reported.

What worked for me:

1. Turn on DVR and TV
2. Press Select and Exit on 8000HD simultaneously -- just once.
3. Press Channel Up on remote to exit after perusing diag screens.

I also found that my 8000HD didn't change channels when the diag screens came up. Rather, it just superimposed the diag screens on top of whatever channel I had on.

Has anybody tried changing any of the diag screen settings? :eek:

JK27

Originally posted by JK27
[B] I pressed the green "List" button, selected the VP Debate and pressed "Play". It started to play the debate *from the beginning* and I was able to watch the entire debate (with pause, FF, rew, the whole deal) -- while it was still recording the rest of the debate. What happens if you stop it and try and start from the beginning again ??

Originally posted by bshow456
Just verified the 480p setting on my set. If the 8000HD is set to 1080i and 480p it does output 480i content at 480p allowing me to use the stretch modes on my TV. This is much nicer than having the DVR do it.

Now if the TV could just switch from 1080i to 480p faster I would be all set. I have the same problem as hall with the slow changing from an HD channel to SD channel. However, it is a result of my TV not the DVR.

I have all modes set on my display (480i 480p 720p 1080i) and it takes a ludicrous amount of time to switch between channels which did not occur on my trusty old Pioneer 3510.

It may very well be your TV is slow to switch, but even if you had a fast switching TV, the 8000HD will still be slow to switch channels.

Originally posted by kilmar
I have all modes set on my display (480i 480p 720p 1080i) and it takes a ludicrous amount of time to switch between channels... I don't think you can blame the SA box for this. Set it to 1080i or 720p *only* (whatever is native to your TV) and try it. Mine was set to 1080i when I first got it and I noticed that channel-switching was quite fast. Much faster than my Dish Network box and seemed as fast or faster than my in-laws with a standard SA set-top box (no idea on what model).

Part of the slowness in channel changing has to do with resetting the buffer. I find that my 8000HD is slower but not significantly slower at changing channels than my 3250HD.

JK27 - it's interesting that you have the same version of the software as hall and myself and don't have the problem of not being able to watch a show that is recording from the beginning. I guess it's not version specific - maybe you just need to be lucky to not have the problem.

These boxes are so quirky.

SA8000HD with Passport software from Charlotte NC TWC...
My question: I do want to archive a portion of a show to a vcr/miniDV camera using the S-Vid or composite either one... I've looked and looked, but cannot find a menu item which actually allows me to "Archive to VCR." How can I do this? Anyone with success? Thanks...
(oh, and a 30 second skip on this would really be wonderful!)

EricScott, I seem to be able to do it okay *once*, though more experimenting might be helpful. If you stop the playback though and try and start over, I think you can't.

I also had it act really wierd yesterday with 'Days of Thunder'. I let it record and was able to play it from the start while it was still recording. If I stopped playback, when I tried to continue watching it it seemed to only continue at the "live" point. Rewinding it was really erratic. It would jump back and forth from the live point to the point I *stopped* watching it earlier !!!!! :) 'Pause' only paused for a few seconds or so then continued on it's own.

Thanks for the remote shortcuts post. Extremely helpful!

Tried to watch a recording in progress from the beginning a couple times this evening.... and it locked the DVR up each time. :( This in fact happens quite often, too often, really. I've got (3) CSI:NY entries in my DVR list, (2) American Choppers, (2) Looney Tunes something-or-other (wife recorded it). Each is a partial recording of ONE episode.

Man this box is quirky!!

Something changed in my setup and I now have the same problem as hall. I have the 8000HD set to output 1080i and 480p. HD channels are fine, they are displayed full screen on my set.

SD channels however are not. They are being output at 480p b/c my TV's stretch modes are available. However I am getting 2 sets of bars on the sides of the picture! It's like the 8000HD is adding bars as well as the TV. If I use the Natural mode the picture is squished way too narrow. If I stretch using the TV's stretch mode only there are still sidebars but the picture is now the proper aspect ratio. If I stretch both the TV and the DVR I think it then goes full screen.

I don't think it was like this when I first switched to 1080i and 480p output.

Can someone tell me how to put the 8000HD in SD mode so the S-video and coax outputs work?

From this thread, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=454911, those pesky "consumer" reporters are "investigating" problems with DVRs..... Ooooh, it *must* be important now !! :)

This is not a very scientific observation but in general I think I experience more pixelation and audio dropouts when the 8000HD is using both tuners. For example last night I was recording L&O on NBC HD and was recording / watching CSI: NY on CBS HD at the same time. The CBS HD show kept breaking up with dropouts and pixelation. Pretty annoying.

Haven't spent much time troubleshooting this b/c the box is just so quirky but things seem to get worse as you try to do more with it - makes sense I guess.

Originally posted by bshow456
Man this box is quirky!!

Something changed in my setup and I now have the same problem as hall. I have the 8000HD set to output 1080i and 480p. HD channels are fine, they are displayed full screen on my set.

SD channels however are not. They are being output at 480p b/c my TV's stretch modes are available. However I am getting 2 sets of bars on the sides of the picture! It's like the 8000HD is adding bars as well as the TV. If I use the Natural mode the picture is squished way too narrow. If I stretch using the TV's stretch mode only there are still sidebars but the picture is now the proper aspect ratio. If I stretch both the TV and the DVR I think it then goes full screen.

I don't think it was like this when I first switched to 1080i and 480p output.

Can someone tell me how to put the 8000HD in SD mode so the S-video and coax outputs work?

Sounds like the box has changed the aspect ratio. Press the # key or go to settings >> more settings >> aspect ratio

I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about what in my opinion is the most annoying "feature" of the 8000HD w/ Passport - the dreaded gray pillar boxes. I know these are designed to prevent burn in on plasmas and CRTs but on my DLP they are just plain annoying. There should be an option to make the gray bars black (I think you can do this in SARA).

The work-around that I use is the stetch / shrink method. First I have my 8000HD stetch all 4:3 material (under setting / more settings / aspect ratio). Then, since I hate the look of stetched 4:3 material, I have my Samsung shrink 4:3 back to normal by using the 4:3 picture mode setting for the component input (obviously what this feature is called and if it's available at all, is entirely dependent on your TV). This causes the menus to look a little squished but the Samsung inserts black bars for you and the picture doesn't look distorted at all. Only annoyance is that when I switch to a 16:9 program, I need to change the picture mode on my Samsung to Wide.

Originally posted by EricScott
I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about what in my opinion is the most annoying "feature" of the 8000HD w/ Passport - the dreaded gray pillar boxes. I know these are designed to prevent burn in on plasmas and CRTs but on my DLP they are just plain annoying. There should be an option to make the gray bars black (I think you can do this in SARA).

The work-around that I use is the stetch / shrink method. First I have my 8000HD stetch all 4:3 material (under setting / more settings / aspect ratio). Then, since I hate the look of stetched 4:3 material, I have my Samsung shrink 4:3 back to normal by using the 4:3 picture mode setting for the component input (obviously what this feature is called and if it's available at all, is entirely dependent on your TV). This causes the menus to look a little squished but the Samsung inserts black bars for you and the picture doesn't look distorted at all. Only annoyance is that when I switch to a 16:9 program, I need to change the picture mode on my Samsung to Wide.

Yup. I have a CRT projection so this isn't an issue for me, as I want the grey bars, but I was just thinking last night that they really need to add an option to change the color.

From reading the other thread on this box, I'm 100% positive that you *can* specify the sidebar's colors using the SARA software. If this one would do what I tell it though, that is to *stretch* 4:3 material, I wouldn't care what color the sidebars are 'cause I wouldn't see 'em.

Speaking of the sidebars, why do they show up in the guide ?? Oh, because SciAtl designed an HD box to use 640x480 resolution (http://www.sciatl.com/customers/Source/4004400.pdf, page 3, "Enhanced Graphics Engine" item). Come on, it's an HD box !!! Use 720x480 !!! Passport can run in that mode, or at least it appears so from this brochure, http://www.pioneerbroadband.com/pdf/PassEchoBrochure.pdf. Notice the picture of the TV with the guide showing ?? In full (wide) screen....

Ok. After waiting for several months my new 8000hd is up and running.

At first the technician told me that I could only watch SD programs with the gray sidebars. No explanation of the settings>aspect ratio function.

So, at first I just had the aspect ratio stretch all SD programs.

Then I noticed that the SD programming looked horrible. So I once again go into the settings mode and start playing with the output format. Since I have the sony 16:9 xbr910, I choose 'all' outputs. 480i, 480p, etc. etc.....

Now, my SD looks good, HD is working great, and I can now use all the stretch modes on my xbr910 when in SD programming.

All through the component cables.

Sooooo.... I don't have to worry about watching SD vs HD? My tv adjusts itself automatically to the signal being received?

So far that's what I'm seeing. Any inputs?

Originally posted by EricScott
I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about what in my opinion is the most annoying "feature" of the 8000HD w/ Passport - the dreaded gray pillar boxes. I know these are designed to prevent burn in on plasmas and CRTs but on my DLP they are just plain annoying. What surprises me is just how often I see people complain about the grey pillar boxes :D. When I'm watching a program, I find it pretty easy to filter those out, whether they're black or gray color. (If they were magenta, I'd probably complain ;)). Perhaps that's why you haven't seen much discussion of it: maybe, like me, most people aren't bothered by them, or use stretched or zoom mode for SD content most of the time. Much of the SD content that I watch is letterboxed, like "Smallville" (can't tune the KSWB-DT and it's not on my local cable, so I have to watch in SD) and the "Stargate" series', so I watch them zoomed.

I probably wouldnt mind the gray pillar boxes if I wasn't using a DLP projector on an 8ft wide screen. When everything is dark around the 4x3 image except for the sides, it gets a little distracting. Especially since the projector is in 16:9 mode.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
What surprises me is just how often I see people complain about the grey pillar boxes :D. When I'm watching a program, I find it pretty easy to filter those out, whether they're black or gray color. (If they were magenta, I'd probably complain ;)). Perhaps that's why you haven't seen much discussion of it: maybe, like me, most people aren't bothered by them, or use stretched or zoom mode for SD content most of the time. Much of the SD content that I watch is letterboxed, like "Smallville" (can't tune the KSWB-DT and it's not on my local cable, so I have to watch in SD) and the "Stargate" series', so I watch them zoomed.

My DLP has a black bezel and I do a fair amount of viewing in the dark. With black pillar bars I literally can't even tell that they are there. The gray bars are very noticeable and distracting to me. I suppose that others aren't bothered by them, but I certainly am. If you like stretch or zoom then I guess it's even less of a problem but I don't really like either (maybe my Sammy's picture modes just aren't great) so my only option is the work around I described above. Before someone suggested I do that, I was seriously contemplating returning the 8000HD purely b/c of the gray bars. Now I am happy with it.

I guess all I am saying is that having an option to set the color of the pillar bars would be ideal. Seems easy enough to do and SARA users have it.

Black pillar bars I can live with and doesn't bother me. My local TW has our locals available in analog (channels 2, 7, 22, etc) and also in digital (702, 707, 722, etc). On the digital channels, the sidebars are black; on the analog they're gray. Regardless, I end up stretching the picture 98% of the time (as does my wife).

What workaround? Stretch the 4:3 with the box and use the picture modes on the projector to shrink/stretch it back?

Originally posted by michaeltscott
What surprises me is just how often I see people complain about the grey pillar boxes :D. When I'm watching a program, I find it pretty easy to filter those out, whether they're black or gray color. I don't think it's that uncommon that people dislike the gray.... Apparently it's "better" at preventing burn-in than is black, but people still don't like it. On many Toshibas, the default sidebar color is also gray, just like with the SA's. Some people have figured out how to change the gray to black by going into the TV's 'service mode'.

Originally posted by cspil
What workaround? Stretch the 4:3 with the box and use the picture modes on the projector to shrink/stretch it back?

Yes. See a few posts up on this page.

hall - if you're still here, i think you should edit your first post to explain to people how to determine whether they have SARA or passport so that we can keep SARA people out of here and keep the discussion more focused. I'm afraid a lot of SARA users will wander in here and confuse things by accident.

btw, those of you asking about diag mode, i've found that if i just tune to channel 999 i get right into diag mode without any extra tricks. and of course this can all be done from the remote.

TWC Staten Island w / Passpoert Software.

I have had the SA8000HD for about 2 weeks now. The first week the pixels and audio breakups were numerous although the box did record the shows as scheduled and I was able to watch them. This past week I had no audio problems or pixels so I assumed their must have been a software upgrade. Well last night all hell broke loose. Not only were the pixels and audio dropouts back but a new problem arose. Every time I try to watch a recorded show the box locks up and re-boots. It did this 3 times, and during one of the re-boots switched to SD mode! I was finally able to watch a recorded show but I tried again today and the same problem occurred. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm not sure now if this is a software issue or the box has become defective. By the way my software version is 1.5.151 with a date of August so there obviously has not been a recent upgrade.

Originally posted by mikea28
hall - if you're still here, i think you should edit your first post to explain to people how to determine whether they have SARA or passport... I don't know how to tell other than rebooting the box and seeing what logo shows up. SARA or Passport is more or less the "look" or is that not true ?? I just checked Scientific Atlanta's website and their guide PDF and it *looks* like Passport to me, though an older version. I would have thought they'd show their own SARA software. btw, those of you asking about diag mode, i've found that if i just tune to channel 999 i get right into diag mode without any extra tricks. and of course this can all be done from the remote. This clearly varies by location. That does NOT work on my box. If I enter "999", it returns "???". :) Others mention that after doing the two-button press they have to tune to channel "611". I don't....

Originally posted by hall
When viewing the program guide, in the upper-left it displays the channel name/number. Occasionally it will have a "star" next to the channel number. This seems to indicate that the show is in High-Definition. It ONLY appears on my HD-capable channels (Showtime HD, HBO-HD, DiscoveryHD, and some locals) and does NOT appear on ALL shows.


The stars indicate what you have marked as "Favorites". For me, I just have all my HD channels marked as favorites, so thats what I would see...maybe you did this too.


Ok, heres MY problem, and I cant believe Im the only one having this, but I posted in the original 8000HD thread and got only a few responses, eventually thought the problem was solved, but now its back. The DVR chops off recordings. For example, I recorded tonights Clemson @ Virginia game on ESPNHD, from 730-130AM (extended 3 hours to catch everything + Sportscenter). So I get home about 1AM and the red light is on, indicating its recording. Now, I also cant play a currently recording show from the beginning, so I screw around until its done. So I go back, and what do you know, the recording is only from 730 to 817! Now, when I play it, the timeline indicates the show is 6 hours long, but the green part indicates that the majority of the 6 hours is missing.

This happens way too often, and I have yet to figure out anything that causes it...it appears to be completely random. It has happened on recordings from ABCHD, TNTHD, HDNet, ESPNHD, NBCHD, etc etc...so its not a problem with a particular channel or video format. It doesnt seem to coincide with if another HD channel is in the PIP either...is ANYONE having this problem too? TWC replaced my DVR once and obviously it has done no good. Thankfully if I miss a TV show, I know where to find those on the net, but with sports its not that easy...especially when youd prefer to watch in HD. Im happy with everything else about this box, but this just makes it very unreliable.

Originally posted by mikea28
btw, those of you asking about diag mode, i've found that if i just tune to channel 999 i get right into diag mode without any extra tricks. and of course this can all be done from the remote. On our local TWC system, channel 998 will get you a system status display, about 10 lines long, including the Passport version number. It is not, however, the full 20-some-odd page diagnostic mode, which is mostly incomprehensible, but does have a page with HDD size and free space. (It may also have some fields with adjustable values--it's really intended for service people).

Is the single-page status what you're seeing on 999?

I'm using Passport ver 1.5.15 and don't have the problem of playing back a recording from the beginning.
I've recorded movies over 2hrs long and been abel to watch from the beginning when it is almost done with the recording.

Maybe this depends where you live?
I live in NYC.

Hey EndContra, I think the problem you are having is probably the one i was seeing last night. It appears that sometimes the HD program will start recording and then for some reason TW drops the signal but the DVR does not realize there is no feed. Happened last night w/ the apprentice was there to catch it but i and had to watch it in SD :( as the NBC HD channel was a gray screen.

Originally posted by timewaster
I'm using Passport ver 1.5.15 and don't have the problem of playing back a recording from the beginning.
I've recorded movies over 2hrs long and been abel to watch from the beginning when it is almost done with the recording.

Maybe this depends where you live?
I live in NYC.

Well I live in NYC as well, have v.151 and am definitely experiencing the problem. I tried it out last night. Was recording Without a Trace from 10-11 on CBS HD. Tried to watch the show from the beginning at like 10:35 and it initially started at the live point when I selected "Play" from the Recorded Shows list. I could back up approximately 30 minutes to 10:06 (I'm guessing the size of the HD buffer) but no further. Went back at 10:58 and now I could go back to 10:29 but no further. At 11:01 I could watch the show from the beginning.

Seems like it affects people "randomly". Perfect.

that is weird considering that the live buffer is 1 hr.
Eric, how big is your live buffer?
If you are watching live tv, how far back can you go?

Originally posted by timewaster
that is weird considering that the live buffer is 1 hr.
Eric, how big is your live buffer?
If you are watching live tv, how far back can you go?

Will check this weekend. But for HD I'm not sure it's 1 hr. For SD it definitely is.

Is pixelation more of a problem with the HD box?

I have noticed more pixelating on the SA8000HD than the regular SA8000.

Also, a few more audio dropouts than before.

Originally posted by pursuit
Hey EndContra, I think the problem you are having is probably the one i was seeing last night. It appears that sometimes the HD program will start recording and then for some reason TW drops the signal but the DVR does not realize there is no feed. Happened last night w/ the apprentice was there to catch it but i and had to watch it in SD :( as the NBC HD channel was a gray screen.

NO, thats not the problem I have. For you, the DVR was still recording, but you had so many minutes of a gray screen. For me, even though it recorded the full 6 hours, when you play back there was only 47 minutes of video. So when it gets to the end of the 57 minutes, it gives me the "Save for now / erase now" popup. Again its sporadic so I have no idea when something is going to have all of a program or when Im going to have a whole 15 minutes of it.

Originally posted by EricScott
Tried to watch the show from the beginning at like 10:35 and it initially started at the live point when I selected "Play" from the Recorded Shows list. I could back up approximately 30 minutes to 10:06 (I'm guessing the size of the HD buffer) but no further. Went back at 10:58 and now I could go back to 10:29 but no further. At 11:01 I could watch the show from the beginning. As odd as that scenario sounds, I've had mine act very similarly. I couldn't start watching from the beginning.... So I'd stop it and next time I tried "Play", it started where I stopped it. I could repeat this continually in that each time I "started over", it picked up where I stopped the time before. I couldn't rewind more than a few minutes each time too.

Originally posted by hall
As odd as that scenario sounds, I've had mine act very similarly. I couldn't start watching from the beginning.... So I'd stop it and next time I tried "Play", it started where I stopped it. I could repeat this continually in that each time I "started over", it picked up where I stopped the time before. I couldn't rewind more than a few minutes each time too.

hall,

not sure that is the behavior my box is exhibiting. i think the buffer for HD is approx. 30 mins so the box was letting me go back from the current live point as far as the buffer would go (approx. 30 mins) each time I tried to watch it.

i will try to verify the buffer size for HD channels, but I don't think it's 1 hour - that is a very large % of the total recording capacity on the drive.

My problem isn't with the buffer though....

You're right though that 1 hour of HD mat'l could eat up a lot of disk space.

On the subject of the buffer, it's very imperfectly implemented at the moment. As I understand the 8000HD's design, the buffer is supposed to store the contents of the current channel to enable pausing, rewinding, fast forwarding, etc. If I'm watching Ch. A and switch to Ch. B, I would expect the machine to delete the contents of the Ch. A buffer and start buffering Ch. B. This isn't happening now. If I start watching a program on Ch. A and switch to Ch. B and then return to Ch. A after 15 minutes, say, the Ch. A program resumes at the point in the program when I first started watching it. To see the current contents of Ch. A, I need to hit the LIVE button. In other words, the thing is still recording Ch. A even after I've switched to Ch. B. The same thing happens with the Ch. B buffer when I tune to Ch. A and then return to Ch. B. I don't recall seeing this behavior with the previous Passport build.

Yes, as soon as you change channels, the buffer should be cleared. The new channel you switch to should start buffering. I had a DVR with Dish and theirs works like this (according to the manual):

*when receiver is on, it's recording
you can record up to about one hour (their emphasis, not mine)

*after about an hour, it records over the previous hour

*it continues recording even if one program ends and the next program starts (it's recording what it's tuned to, not a particular channel or program)

*if you change channels, you erase the previous hour and start recording the new channel


Are you (Manatus) saying that a newer software release changed this behavior ?? I've only had my box one week and have had the same software (1.5.151) the whole time.

Are you (Manatus) saying that a newer software release changed this behavior ?? I've only had my box one week and have had the same software (1.5.151) the whole time.

My 8000HD certainly wasn't doing this when I first received it, and this behavior started about the same time that 151 was delivered. But I can't opine on causality.

Originally posted by Manatus
My 8000HD certainly wasn't doing this when I first received it, and this behavior started about the same time that 151 was delivered. But I can't opine on causality.

My box exhibits similiar behavior. For example I had the DVR on 705 and decided I wanted to start watching a recorded program (did this maybe 10 mins ago). Then decided I didn't want to watch the program so I hit the live button. This should take me to the current live point on ch 705. Instead it brought me about 30 minutes back, which was the beginning of the buffer (easy to see that it's the beginning of the green progress bar) for ch 705.

Haven't experimented with Manatus' channel A / channel B concept but it sounds like it is the same behavior I am describing.

Also don't remember the box doing this prior to v.151, but couldn't say for sure. Seems like 151 added that stupid TV Guide logo in the IPG but brought with it a whole slew of new problems.

Here's a new one..... It's not a bad thing, just odd.

DVR is "off", i.e. no power light, no recording in progress. TV is off. Turn TV on and my 'startup channel' is partially displaying on-screen. I only get the picture in the sidebars though !! In the center of the screen, it's either blank or very dark. I get full audio output too.

Turn the DVR "on" by using the remote or the front-panel button, and the picture shows up right along with the banner for a few seconds.

For the past few days, we've been unable to play back pre-recorded programs at all. These are NOT in-progress ones either. I was able to duplicate this problem at will time after time.

I took the box in an attempt to swap it out but they were out.... When we got home, I could get programs to play fine. Hmmm, box had cooled down ?? After we'd been home for a while, it wouldn't play again. What happens is this:

- Hit List, choose a program, and Play.
- Screen goes gray. Menus, guide, List, etc still come on but you can't do anything with them
- Choose the program again from List and after 1-2 minutes, the box reboots

I repeated this 4-5 times.

I ended up putting the box on 1/2" blocks to give more clearance underneath it. I also placed a small "desk" fan (about 5" diameter) blowing on the DVR. For the rest of the day, the DVR worked perfect. Well, almost..... Playing back a show in-progress still didn't work. :(

I have also been experiencing apparent crashes of the 8000HD system when trying to view recorded materials. Three times in the past few days I have tried to watch a recorded movie from the List, only to have the box lock-up on a gray screen and eventually reboot itself. After the reboots, however, I was able to watch each movie.

wzpgsr, I've had contact with some TW people and what they discovered was this does happen if you have an HD channel tuned in at the time you attempt to play a recording. Tune to a non-HD channel and try it. I haven't had any chance to experiment with this yet myself.

EricScott,

I checked my buffer and you are right.
For HD, the buffer is 30 mins, SD is 1 hr.
But i am able to watched currently recorded HD material more than 1 hr back.


A few people have mentioned their box hanging when trying to play back a recording. This just started happening to me this weekend and never happened to me before. The only things that changed for me since the weeked was
1. The new TNTHD station
2. I hooked up a new optical cable from from the STB to my digital receiver.

Removing the optical cable and rebooting the box always seems to fix the problem, so I am inclined to believe it is because of the cable.
The problem is also not consistent.
After rehooking the cable, sometimes it still works too.

timewaster, look at my post right above yours. Try that workaround and see how well it works.

Originally posted by Manatus
On the subject of the buffer, it's very imperfectly implemented at the moment. As I understand the 8000HD's design, the buffer is supposed to store the contents of the current channel to enable pausing, rewinding, fast forwarding, etc. If I'm watching Ch. A and switch to Ch. B, I would expect the machine to delete the contents of the Ch. A buffer and start buffering Ch. B. This isn't happening now. If I start watching a program on Ch. A and switch to Ch. B and then return to Ch. A after 15 minutes, say, the Ch. A program resumes at the point in the program when I first started watching it. To see the current contents of Ch. A, I need to hit the LIVE button. In other words, the thing is still recording Ch. A even after I've switched to Ch. B. The same thing happens with the Ch. B buffer when I tune to Ch. A and then return to Ch. B. I don't recall seeing this behavior with the previous Passport build.

I think what you're doing is swapping from TUNER A to Tuner B, which preserves the buffers on both tuners and this is normal behavior.

Switching to a new channel however (say from channel 4 to ch 7) deletes the buffer of the previous channel 4.

Originally posted by hall
timewaster, look at my post right above yours. Try that workaround and see how well it works.

Thanks hall.
I saw your post and will try it.
The funny thing is that I never had this problem until this weekend when I added the optical cable.

I am NOT using an optical cable (was, but my new AV stand blocks it) but using the coaxial instead. I don't think it's related to what audio connection we use.... :)

Originally posted by timewaster
EricScott,

I checked my buffer and you are right.
For HD, the buffer is 30 mins, SD is 1 hr.
But i am able to watched currently recorded HD material more than 1 hr back.




If you are in NY we most likely have the same software version (151), which suggests again that this problem is extremely quirky and only affects certain users.

BTW, I use coaxial. Previously used optical and found coaxial had slightly (and I mean slightly b/c it still has a lot) audio dropouts. This could also be attributed to fewer dropouts overall as they improved the software.

Originally posted by hall
Here's a new one..... It's not a bad thing, just odd.

DVR is "off", i.e. no power light, no recording in progress. TV is off. Turn TV on and my 'startup channel' is partially displaying on-screen. I only get the picture in the sidebars though !! In the center of the screen, it's either blank or very dark. I get full audio output too.

Turn the DVR "on" by using the remote or the front-panel button, and the picture shows up right along with the banner for a few seconds.

Yep I had the same problem last night. My Local Cary NC TWC did a software update yesterday and it seems to have messed everything up. It was working perfectly before now they have gone and screwed things up. TWC you couldn’t just leave well enough alone HUH? Now I get the picture in the sidebars only and the picture doesn’t even go away when I turn the cable box off. It stays there even when I change channels or turn the power off. I think my cable box is possessed. Anyone else had these problems?

anyone have this problem?

Twice tonight I have hit rewind while wathcing the baseball game on Fox. Each time I was taken to another chanel (I think the one I had last viewed) and the box was rewinding that channel ... it appears the buffer is stuck on one channel while I view another.

hall,

I just tried playing back CSI Miami from the beginning while it was still recording - 50 mins in (and I happened to be watching ABC HD at the time) - and it worked fine.

So not only are not all people with a given sw version affected by this, but the problem doesn't always occur.

Eric

We got a new firmware push last night here in San Diego, to Passport Echo 1.5.159:

ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.5.159
OS Version: PowerTV 6.4.11.1sp
ResApp Date: Oct 9 2004, 02:15:24
OS Date: Oct 8 2004, 8:46:45 PM

At a glance, no new functionality has been added. I don't have a DVI connection on my television, so they could have enabled that and I wouldn't know. As far as I can tell, there have been no new general or advanced settings options added (i.e., "Sidebar Color").

Time will tell if they did anything new and useful. Hopefully they fixed a number of outstanding bugs without making anything any worse :D.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
We got a new firmware push last night here in San Diego, to Passport Echo 1.5.159:

ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.5.159
OS Version: PowerTV 6.4.11.1sp
ResApp Date: Oct 9 2004, 02:15:24
OS Date: Oct 8 2004, 8:46:45 PM

At a glance, no new functionality has been added. I don't have a DVI connection on my television, so they could have enabled that and I wouldn't know. As far as I can tell, there have been no new general or advanced settings options added (i.e., "Sidebar Color").

Time will tell if they did anything new and useful. Hopefully they fixed a number of outstanding bugs without making anything any worse :D.

That's great to hear - you're the first i've seen to get anything newer than the buggy 1.5.151. I have a 15 month old regular SA8000 and .151 caused it to freeze for 6 seconds one to eight times per half hour. However just last Saturday i got a SA8000HD with the same software but it doesn't freeze and seems to be running fine so far. I'm running both boxes side by side :D

Hopefully we'll all get the new software soon - i'm hoping it fixes the freezing problem on my SD unit as i plan to keep both boxes.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
We got a new firmware push last night here in San Diego, to Passport Echo 1.5.159:

ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.5.159
OS Version: PowerTV 6.4.11.1sp
ResApp Date: Oct 9 2004, 02:15:24
OS Date: Oct 8 2004, 8:46:45 PM

At a glance, no new functionality has been added. I don't have a DVI connection on my television, so they could have enabled that and I wouldn't know. As far as I can tell, there have been no new general or advanced settings options added (i.e., "Sidebar Color").

Time will tell if they did anything new and useful. Hopefully they fixed a number of outstanding bugs without making anything any worse :D.

Cool. I'll plug my DVI cable back in tonight and report if anything happens. ;)

Originally posted by coati858
Cool. I'll plug my DVI cable back in tonight and report if anything happens. ;) Do check your firmware revs before performing that test to make sure that you're running .159. On my TWC system, you can get a quick STB status by tuning channel 998 (someone else had one on 999, I think). Otherwise, you can get into the diagnostic menus by going to the box, and, with the unit turned "ON", holding down the "SEL" and "EXIT" buttons until it displays "diag", then tune 611. That works here, and on other systems around the country.

I rec'd an e-mail from a contact at my local TW office.... He said they have a software update ready that's going out tonight. I'm guessing it's the same "159" as you guys in SD just rec'd.

The issue I mentioned earlier about the box locking up if an HD channel was tuned and you attempted to play a recorded event is also fixed, though I'm thinking it's a local issue. He mentioned channels sharing "a common QAM communications channel", whatever that means... :)

I also should mention that my Aspect Ratio choice now *works*. I have it set to stretch all SD channels and up to yesterday, it was NOT. It is now and I do NOT have any new software yet.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Do check your firmware revs before performing that test to make sure that you're running .159. On my TWC system, you can get a quick STB status by tuning channel 998 (someone else had one on 999, I think). Otherwise, you can get into the diagnostic menus by going to the box, and, with the unit turned "ON", holding down the "SEL" and "EXIT" buttons until it displays "diag", then tune 611. That works here, and on other systems around the country.

The diagnostics channel varies around the country (mine is 199 for the abbreviated version and 1999 for the multi-page version) but one way that seems to work for everybody with Passport across the country is to simulaneously hold down the SELECT and EXIT keys until DIAGNO appears in the display then quickly release and press them both AGAIN and the box will tune itself to the multi-page channel. This works for those who don't know what channel to tune to after pressing these two keys :D

I don't think you have to press both SEL and EXIT a 2nd time, just EXIT.

And yes, the particular channel *does* vary by different franchises. Some people have to change to a certain channel after doing the above, while mine changes -- to channel 611 -- on it's own. I can NOT tune to 611 at any other time either.

Originally posted by hall
And yes, the particular channel *does* vary by different franchises. Some people have to change to a certain channel after doing the above, while mine changes -- to channel 611 -- on it's own. I can NOT tune to 611 at any other time either. I think that he was saying that the second pressing of SEL+EXIT (or just EXIT, if you're right) is what automatically tunes to 611. If you just release SEL+EXIT after you see "dIAG" on the display w/o pressing EXIT again, you can tune it yourself, but you have to know the number, which may differ from system to system.

I just checked--once the multi-page diagnostics are enabled, pressing the EXIT button on the box returns to that channel instantly.

I'm not sure what causes the multi-page diagnostic channel to become unavailable again. It was available to me for several days once and I toyed briefly with the box trying to disable it and I know that turning it off and back on again doesn't do it. I don't know whether it survives a power cycle.

Originally posted by hall
I don't think you have to press both SEL and EXIT a 2nd time, just EXIT.

And yes, the particular channel *does* vary by different franchises. Some people have to change to a certain channel after doing the above, while mine changes -- to channel 611 -- on it's own. I can NOT tune to 611 at any other time either.

I just checked mine and you're right, only need to push just the EXIT button the 2nd time and it still tunes to the Diagnostic channel (1999 for me). I cannot tune to 1999 at any other time, all i get is ????.

Either way works the same however . . . . .

Originally posted by michaeltscott
We got a new firmware push last night here in San Diego, to Passport Echo 1.5.159:

ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.5.159
OS Version: PowerTV 6.4.11.1sp
ResApp Date: Oct 9 2004, 02:15:24
OS Date: Oct 8 2004, 8:46:45 PM


Ok i just woke up to find a new firmware push on and my SA8000HD got the exact same version, even the same times listed. My regular SA8000 also got this new firmware but the times are different, otherwise the versions are the exact same. I'm more concerned about the regular DVR as it's the one that was messed up by 1.5.075 and 1.5.151 a few months ago.

MY cable company covers El Segundo, and also nearby Torrance and Gardena so i presume those towns also got the upgrade.

I have TW in Dayton and also got the upgrade to .159 last night. Has anyone checked to see if DVI may have been activated?

Originally posted by bshow456
Man this box is quirky!!

Something changed in my setup and I now have the same problem as hall. I have the 8000HD set to output 1080i and 480p. HD channels are fine, they are displayed full screen on my set.

SD channels however are not. They are being output at 480p b/c my TV's stretch modes are available. However I am getting 2 sets of bars on the sides of the picture! It's like the 8000HD is adding bars as well as the TV. If I use the Natural mode the picture is squished way too narrow. If I stretch using the TV's stretch mode only there are still sidebars but the picture is now the proper aspect ratio. If I stretch both the TV and the DVR I think it then goes full screen.

I don't think it was like this when I first switched to 1080i and 480p output.

Can someone tell me how to put the 8000HD in SD mode so the S-video and coax outputs work?

TWC in NYC/NJ using SA8000HD w/Passport:
I'm having the same issue. I have a Sony 46 inch widescreen HDTV which has a nice "wide zoom" stretch mode for 4:3 material. I set the aspect ratio on the SA8000HD to 16:9 and output to 1080i and 480p as has been suggested in other posts. 1080i programming looks great but 4:3 programming has two sets of bars--the side bars from the SA8000HD and the side bars from my Sony (in normal, non-stretch mode). The only way to get rid of the second set of bars is to either (1) set the output to 1080i or 1080i/480i, in which case I can't use the Sony's stretch modes (which are much better than the SA8000HD's) or (2) use the "full" stretch mode for 4:3 on my Sony (which would defeat the purpose since I would still be left with the SA8000HD's side bars). At one point I tried changing the aspect ratio to 4:3/letterbox for all programming and 1080i/480p for output. This temporarily solved the problem as my TV was able to stretch the 4:3 programming and 1080i was coming in as widescreen (not letterbox). On reboot, however, the 1080i was in letterbox so I reverted to the 1080i only setting. Any suggestions? Thanks in adavnce.

Anyone know if the updates take care of simultaneous use of component and svideo. I currently have the TW Pioneer HD Box. I use svideo for my older RPTV (not HD) and component for my Front Projector (X1). I have read that you have to physically switch something on the box to activate one or the other. They are coming out with the HDDVR on Monday, wondering if I should wait until this issue is resolved?

I have Passport v151 and TWCNYC. I recently wanted to copy a program from my 8000HD to my VCR, so I played the program in the PIP window and went about my other business for an hour. Apparently after about 30 minutes the PIP window automatically closes down. Boo!

If I watch another show, with the PIP window displayed, and merely move the PIP window every 15-20 minutes, everything works fine. But, this is a pain in the neck.

Anybody else experiencing this problem? Any workarounds?

TIA,

-barry

Does this DVR support firewire connectivity (that is mandated by the FCC)?

i should have mentioned, 999 then select is required here in the raleigh/durham, NC area to get the diag screen. it's the full multipage one and it even remembers what page i was on so it's a super quick way for me to check on available HD space.

hall - i think recommending that people reboot and check what version they have is worth it. or give the two methods (passport and SARA) ways of accessing the diag screen so they can visualize it easily. I think it's absolutely critical that we keep this thread on topic because the old one was so confusing with the different versions.

Originally posted by roger_richards
Does this DVR support firewire connectivity (that is mandated by the FCC)? Where is this mandate ?? I'd be interested to see it.... My box doesn't even have Firewire ports (they're optional, according to part numbers at Sci Atl's website).

Originally posted by rrleon1
I have TW in Dayton and also got the upgrade to .159 last night. Has anyone checked to see if DVI may have been activated? I was told that this update was coming for us in the Dayton (Western OH) area but there was no mention of DVI being enabled. It was a bug fix only. Enabling DVI will likely warrant a 2.x.x release, i.e. a "feature" release.

Originally posted by mikea28
i think recommending that people reboot and check what version they have is worth it. or give the two methods (passport and SARA) ways of accessing the diag screen so they can visualize it easily. Well, you just did it.... :) I don't "own" this thread, I just started it. I think it's absolutely critical that we keep this thread on topic because the old one was so confusing with the different versions. Use the "Report this post..." function and tell 'em that it's off-topic. It works. ;)

Originally posted by hall
I was told that this update was coming for us in the Dayton (Western OH) area but there was no mention of DVI being enabled. It was a bug fix only. Enabling DVI will likely warrant a 2.x.x release, i.e. a "feature" release.

The FCC mandate only requires that cableco's provide a firewire enabled HD box. In this case, it WON'T be the DVR box, but it will be the 3250 or similiar. This is also responsible for cablecard.

a few threads on the FCC mandate:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=396477

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=425052

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416211

Originally posted by mikea28
i should have mentioned, 999 then select is required here in the raleigh/durham, NC area to get the diag screen.Well, you're lucky--I just rebooted and this absolutely, positively does not work here. Channel 999 is the "TWC Info Channel" and gives access to some information using the A, B and C buttons about some ESPN football package, digital phone service and one other thing I can't remember. Even 611-SEL (the local full diag channel) doesn't work; once diagnostic mode has been diabled by a reboot, tuning 611 just flashes ??? and hitting SEL doesn't help.it's the full multipage one and it even remembers what page i was on so it's a super quick way for me to check on available HD space.Re-access to the full diagnostic mode channel, once it's been enabled, always returns to where you left it on my system as well (by tuning 611, or pressing EXIT on the STB). Question--do you find information about remaining disk storage somehow useful? It's at best a very rough estimate of recording time. To my mind, the "EST before I'm going to have to dump this to make space" indicators on the saved recordings listings is a much more interesting feature, but to each his own. (Actually, the remaining disk space indicator is not a feature, as such).

Originally posted by Craash
The FCC mandate only requires that cableco's provide a firewire enabled HD box. In this case, it WON'T be the DVR box, but it will be the 3250 or similiar. This is also responsible for cablecard. Well, the "mandate" (now part of the Federal law regulating the operation of the cable companies) only requires that they offer one STB this year with a working 1394 connection. As of 1 July 2005, all new STBs which they lease must have such connections (including DVRs). Anyone who asks for a digital cable STB after that point cannot be given an STB without such a connection, or which does not have a working DVI connection as well. This is according to Code of Federal Regulations Title 47, Part 76.640 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6d7f08968b01fb5330bb2be751fc9d4b&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4&idno=47#47:4.0.1.1.4.11.3.21), Paragraph (b)(4)(ii):(ii) Effective July 1, 2005, include both a DVI or HDMI interface and an IEEE 1394 interface on all high definition set-top boxes acquired by a cable operator for distribution to customers.Of course, that doesn't help people much this year ;).

The whole dual-tuner HD DVR thing is not an easy trick. Adding stuff like archive-to-1394 complicates it even further, resulting in even buggier products. It's just as well that they have another year to come up with it (he said, not being a D-VHS tape archiver :D).

michaelscott,

I don't know much about these Federal regs, but the quote you provided does not say the same thing as you said in your posting.

First, it says that the reg applies to all boxes PURCHASED by the cable operator after July 1st. Seems to me that the cable operator could buy, say, 1 million boxes without DVI or HDMI or 1394 on June 30th, and then lease them to customers for the next year or so.

Second, the quote does not mention "working DVI", just "DVI". The courts might well decide that it would be nonsensical to mandate connectors that didn't work, but the reg you quoted doesn't specifically state that.

For example, my 8000HD does have a DVI and a 1394 connector, but the firmware doesn't support either of them.

-barry

Actually, Barry, if you read the reg further (paragraph (b)(4)(iii)), you will find that it specifies a list of standards to which the 1394 interface must comply. Compliance with those standards requires that interface "works". If you're technically inclined, you can look those standards up online (well, the SCTE ones--the CEA ones are only available for purchase now).

But you're right--it doesn't say, as I'd stated, that they couldn't distribute any old boxes that they had which weren't compliant. (And they might as well, to customers who don't care). And you're also correct--they have neglected to specify standards of operation to which the DVI interface must comply. I guess that providers could get away with buying STBs with full DVI interfaces (though not just connectors) which don't work and still be compliant with the law, after July 2005. My bad.

As for your 8000HD, that regulation doesn't require your provider to make either the 1394 or DVI connection on it work. As I stated near the end of my post, the reg doesn't help us (DVR users) very much this year. They're not required to have any boxes with working DVI yet. The regulation doesn't require working DVI until 1 July 2005, and it only requires that they have one HD STB available with working 1394 before then; they aren't likely to have more than one, and that one isn't likely to be one of the DVRs. (Someone who posts here was at CES where he spoke to an SA rep, who told him that not a single order had been placed for a DVR with active 1394 connections).

michaelscott,

You make several good points.

Hopefully, everybody will take the spirit of the regs into account and by, say, the end of next year, we'll all have DVI and firewire available.

-barry

I still have ver 151 here in NYC. I have the DVI out permanently connected to my TV's HDMI input, so I can check pretty much any time. Still nothing coming from DVI.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Question--do you find information about remaining disk storage somehow useful? It's at best a very rough estimate of recording time. To my mind, the "EST before I'm going to have to dump this to make space" indicators on the saved recordings listings is a much more interesting feature, but to each his own. (Actually, the remaining disk space indicator is not a feature, as such).

Yes, absolutely. I know that with multicasting on each local HD station, the normal 9 gig/hr recording footprint for full ATSC bitrate for HD material is actually around 6-7 gigs (on the SA8000). I know that SD material records at around 2 gigs/hr. Using those numbers I can get a pretty good idea about how much "room" I have left on the disk when I tune to channel 611.

Now, that being said, would I prefer a more elegant interface with, oh I dunno, pie charts or something that would make it a bit easier and intuitive? Sure. I'm also disappointed that this diagnostic feature is "undocumented" and only by hanging out here on AVS was I even able to find out it exists! My local TWC rep, who shall remain nameless because he's now a member of the Forum, told me before I got the box that there was no way to find out how much disk space remains. That kind of misinformation makes me a wee bit angry. (But, in his defense, he may not have known himself at the time. Not likely, but possible I suppose.)

Originally posted by margoba
Hopefully, everybody will take the spirit of the regs into account and by, say, the end of next year, we'll all have DVI and firewire available.All of the major MSOs, Time Warner Cable included, were deeply involved in the negotiations which led to an agreement to provide these interfaces on cable STBs and on what schedule. They were signatory to an accord between the MSOs and the consumer electronics manufacturers which was delivered to the FCC. After consideration and a few modifications, that agreement was codified into that new section of CFR Title 47, Part 76 and a few others. The FCC didn't come up with the details of the plug-and-play DTV-over-cable scheme--they just prodded the cable companies and CE OEMs into doing it, then turned it into a law that they had to abide by.

So, the parent companies of the local providers did agree to live by the requirements in those regulations, though it seems to have taken many of those local system operators by surprise. Some people who post here have had to insist, and had to eventually even send the providers paper copies of paper complaints that they made to the FCC to get them to do things like produce an STB with working 1394. So far, they've all eventually provided what the regulation requires.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
The regulation doesn't require working DVI until 1 July 2005, and it only requires that they have one HD STB available with working 1394 before then; they aren't likely to have more than one, and that one isn't likely to be one of the DVRs. (Someone who posts here was at CES where he spoke to an SA rep, who told him that not a single order had been placed for a DVR with active 1394 connections).

That's odd. I've been pretty vocal about asking my cable company to add 1394 capability to the SA8000, especially since those with the Motorola HD-DVR's often seem to have that feature active on their boxes. So, until they do, I have to also rent an SA3250 that does have firewire out so that I can archive selected content to tape (well, except for local HD channels flagged "copy freely" of course - they just can't seem to fix that bug). Can't keep stuff on the DVR forever! Well, maybe if we had access to larger and/or external add-on hard drives....

Originally posted by archiguy
Sure. I'm also disappointed that this diagnostic feature is "undocumented" and only by hanging out here on AVS was I even able to find out it exists! My local TWC rep, who shall remain nameless because he's now a member of the Forum, told me before I got the box that there was no way to find out how much disk space remains. That kind of misinformation makes me a wee bit angry.As a software engineer, I must protest that undocumented features built into a device which are intended for use solely by provider service personnel and the manufacturer's field engineers do not exist so far as the end user is concerned. The service people are not authorized to discuss the diagnostic mode of this box with you, at all. The fact that you've learned how to get into it is cool, and there is some useful information there (though not a lot), but getting angry that your provider didn't tell you about it is a bit much. They don't particularly want you doing this, and it is their equipment. Though there doesn't seem to be, there could be some potential danger to using it--hit the wrong combination of remote keys while viewing the diag channel and it will cause your drive to be reinitialized (or something). Hell, the fact that it can be entered so casually is nice for us tech freaks here--most devices that I've worked on require a piece of equipment to see diagnostic information that the field engineer would carry with him.

A display of remaining disk space is not a feature of this product. It's not a feature of TiVo either--both show that disk space is getting short by indicating that some stored recordings will have to be deleted soon to make space. This device has the nifty feature of telling you exactly how soon, and allowing you to change the order in which recordings will be deleted. I personally find that a lot more useful than the count of unused sectors; using that is such ... VCR-esque thinking. But, to each his own :).

Originally posted by archiguy
That's odd. I've been pretty vocal about asking my cable company to add 1394 capability to the SA8000, especially since those with the Motorola HD-DVR's often seem to have that feature active on their boxes. Hey--just because they're not required to add it, doesn't mean that you can't ask for it ;). But it's possible that the 1394 connectors on the back of your box aren't connected to anything. There've been 1394 connectors on the back of every cable box I've had for the past several years it seems. It's probably just cheaper to put the connectors on every back panel than to make some that don't have them and some that do.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
A display of remaining disk space is not a feature of this product. It's not a feature of TiVo either--both show that disk space is getting short by indicating that some stored recordings will have to be deleted soon to make space. This device has the nifty feature of telling you exactly how soon, and allowing you to change the order in which recordings will be deleted. I personally find that a lot more useful than the count of unused sectors; using that is such ... VCR-esque thinking. But, to each his own :).

I'm not sure that the SA8000 will give you that "warning". Reason being, before I figured out how to get to the hidden, undocumented diagnostic area, I had a bunch of recordings just up and disappear one day after I recorded the entire Ryder Cup matches (SD broadcast but still a big footprint on the drive because it took so many hours). No warning at all - they were just....gone.

How does the HD-Tivo show you exactly how soon you'll need to make room for a new recording? Does it give you two figures, one for SD material and one for HD material?

I still prefer to know how much disk space is remaining and I'm darn glad I now know how to find out (sorry Mike). That way, I can sort of plan what I'm going to record several days or weeks in advance - a much more useful piece of information to me than a sudden warning that you're going to have to delete something to make room for a new recording. I need to know how close I'm getting before I get there to plan my recordings properly. I now always "activate" that diagnostic screen now whenever I'm doing any recording, erasing, or managing of my recordings; it's invaluable. But I'd like to see it in a more useful GUI- with colorful pie charts! :)

Originally posted by evanbo
TWC in NYC/NJ using SA8000HD w/Passport:
I'm having the same issue. I have a Sony 46 inch widescreen HDTV which has a nice "wide zoom" stretch mode for 4:3 material. I set the aspect ratio on the SA8000HD to 16:9 and output to 1080i and 480p as has been suggested in other posts. 1080i programming looks great but 4:3 programming has two sets of bars--the side bars from the SA8000HD and the side bars from my Sony (in normal, non-stretch mode). The only way to get rid of the second set of bars is to either (1) set the output to 1080i or 1080i/480i, in which case I can't use the Sony's stretch modes (which are much better than the SA8000HD's) or (2) use the "full" stretch mode for 4:3 on my Sony (which would defeat the purpose since I would still be left with the SA8000HD's side bars). At one point I tried changing the aspect ratio to 4:3/letterbox for all programming and 1080i/480p for output. This temporarily solved the problem as my TV was able to stretch the 4:3 programming and 1080i was coming in as widescreen (not letterbox). On reboot, however, the 1080i was in letterbox so I reverted to the 1080i only setting. Any suggestions? Thanks in adavnce.


These two issues confuse me too.

I want to have HD at 16:9 @ 1080i and SD at 4:3 Native 480i and let me TV
(Fijorda sp? chip) do the stretch/zoom instead of the crappy 8000's performance.

Can someone suggest the proper setup for this w/o the 2 bars added?

thanks - m.

Originally posted by archiguy
I'm not sure that the SA8000 will give you that "warning". Reason being, before I figured out how to get to the hidden, undocumented diagnostic area, I had a bunch of recordings just up and disappear one day after I recorded the entire Ryder Cup matches (SD broadcast but still a big footprint on the drive because it took so many hours). No warning at all - they were just....gone.I'm sorry that this happened, but did you actually check your list of saved recordings to see if there were any little hour glasses showing next to any of them? I suppose that it's possible that you could start watching a scheduled 6 hour sporting event, need to walk from it, push RECORD and have some hours of old recordings dumped without realizing that it would happen. So far as I know, it won't aggressively warn you in that case by popping up a confirmation dialog (which would be nice). However, if you look at the list of saved recordings, if any of them are going have to be deleted any time in the next few days to make space to store scheduled future recordings, it will mark the ones due to be deleted very soon with an hourglass and it will tell you how long each current recording will be retained, as you move the cursor up and down through the list.How does the HD-Tivo show you exactly how soon you'll need to make room for a new recording? Does it give you two figures, one for SD material and one for HD material?I have no idea how HD TiVo works--my only experience is with SD analog TiVo. It puts a big yellow dot next to a recording in the "Now Playing" list to indicate that it could be deleted soon (if you've marked the recording "save until I delete", it will have a green dot). It doesn't indicate how much time you have left to watch it, or let you move it up and down through list, rearranging the order of deletions, like Passport Echo does.I still prefer to know how much disk space is remaining and I'm darn glad I now know how to find out (sorry Mike). That way, I can sort of plan what I'm going to record several days or weeks in advance - a much more useful piece of information to me than a sudden warning that you're going to have to delete something to make room for a new recording.Don't be sorry--just be aware that the availability of this information is not a feature of the device, and IMHO, isn't likely to ever become one. As I said, the concept of managing "remaining space" quantitatively is too VCR-like, and the DVR UI designers are trying to achieve a more intuitive paradigm ("you need to watch these recordings soon, or they will be deleted to make room for new ones"). Some of the OTA-only DVRs (like the LGE products) might have a feature like this though--they're very much like HDD VCRs. I'm happy for you that those numbers are there in the diag screens, but a firmware update could remove them or change the way that the diag screens are accessed to lock us out and you would have no cause to complain. Also happily for you, neither is likely :).

Originally posted by michaeltscott
UI designers are trying to achieve a more intuitive paradigm ("you need to watch these recordings soon, or they will be deleted to make room for new ones").

That's a fine paradigm as long as the DVR warns you several days in advance to give you time to watch the shows you're about to lose. Or the DVR could give you an EASY way to archive the shows to VCR, DVD, or external disk drive.

Even so, it would be nice to have a general (even if only moderately accurate) view of how full your drive is. I might suggest they display a number between 1 and 10 to indicate approximately how full your drive has becore - 1 being almost empty, 10 being almost full. It would be nice to know well in advance (many weeks!) that my drive is starting to fill up, and I'd better speed up my viewing pace.

-barry

On Dish's 522 (DVR), at the top of the recorded programs list, it had a simple "XX hours available" for add'l recordings. Granted, this was a rough number, but if it was telling you you had only 2-3 hours available, you know you had to do something. When it came time to dump something, it was always the oldest out first. You *could* "protect" something and it would not be deleted automatically.

You can also protect things with the 8000HD. When you select it from the DVR list, hit "SEL" and then, I think, "Record options". One of the options had to do with when to delete this program and I recall that one of them was "Never". It had a lot of options so you could prioritize things with something like "Delete this first" or "Delete as needed".

As for the TW guy telling you there's no way to tell how much space was available, from the standpoint of sitting on the couch with your remote, no, there is no way. That is the "proper" answer coming from him. I was having some issues with mine and TW was going to come and check signal levels, for one. I'm thinking, they don't have to come to my house, I can get these from the DIAG menu. But, they are NOT going to walk me through that to get the numbers. I even told them I can tell them the values, but they weren't interested.

I'm in Kansas City. Need to check to see if we got the firmware update yet.

A few things:
- I also have trouble with playback when tuned to an HD channel (especially ESPN-HD). I haven't had issues when tuning to an SD channel before playback.

- I found a way to watch a live program you're recording form the beginning. It's a little different than I've seen on this thread, and easier than waiting for it to rewind to the beginning of the buffer. While you're tuned into something you're recording, press "stop". THIS WILL NOT STOP RECORDING!! A confirmation screen will come up asking you what you want to do. You can press the red "C" button to watch from the start without stopping recording. It's not the smoothest process, but at least it's doable.

Let me know if folks in other locations (or not on release .151) have success with this.

Originally posted by squeak49
I also have trouble with playback when tuned to an HD channel (especially ESPN-HD). I haven't had issues when tuning to an SD channel before playback.
We had the same problem here in TW-Western Ohio's franchise. It's a "local" issue as I understand it. This is the answer I got about it:

We found and corrected a problem with the digital video stream for both TNT HD and Discovery HD. They share a common QAM communications channel to the set top. This problem was causing the gray screen issue when playing back recorded content while tuned to either of these HD services. You should try and get a hold of someone well up the technical ladder at your local TW and let them know about this. They did NOT fix this via a software update.

Originally posted by margoba
That's a fine paradigm as long as the DVR warns you several days in advance to give you time to watch the shows you're about to lose. Or the DVR could give you an EASY way to archive the shows to VCR, DVD, or external disk drive.It generally starts to warn you when something's going to be deleted in about 3 days. The problem would be if you schedule something suddenly to be recorded now, or in the next day or two. It should pop up a warning that recording the thing will cause the deletion of a given list of programs (unless you watch them first). TiVo would do something similar to that. I'm not entirely certain that it won't--I haven't tried doing exactly that.

Of course, it would be nice to have an easy way to archive from the DVR, but I really don't see how a remaining capacity meter helps. To avoid losing stuff, you need intelligent protection; a warning when you're trying to schedule a new recording that it will cause some old ones to be deleted immediately or very, very soon.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
...but I really don't see how a remaining capacity meter helps. To avoid losing stuff, you need intelligent protection; a warning when you're trying to schedule a new recording that it will cause some old ones to be deleted immediately or very, very soon.

Now I begin to see how we differ in our styles of usage/thinking. First, most of my recordings are repeating schedules, so there's no opportunity for a warning to pop up and warn me. Second, I like to be VERY conservative in my storage management. I try to make sure that there's always atypical week or two's worth of free space available. That way it's hard to screw up. Of course I have to increase the safety margin when I go on vacation. :-)

All this is rather difficult with no easy display of how much time/space is left.

-barry

Originally posted by margoba
Now I begin to see how we differ in our styles of usage/thinking. First, most of my recordings are repeating schedules, so there's no opportunity for a warning to pop up and warn me.Not that different--there are 20 hours of weekly events in my Series Manager at this time. Only about 4 hours of that is SD, all of it analog (probably a lot more space intensive than digital SD cable). I also scan HBO, Showtime, the HDNets and the INHDs for HD movies to record.

The opportunity to pop-up a warning that I was talking about was upon attempting to schedule something new to record. TiVo would evaluate the current content of the drive and the current recording schedule and warn that some things would be deleted very early, asking whether you still wanted to schedule the recording.Second, I like to be VERY conservative in my storage management. I try to make sure that there's always atypical week or two's worth of free space available. That way it's hard to screw up. Of course I have to increase the safety margin when I go on vacation. :-)Well, there's where we differ--since what I record in a week is more than the 160 GB DVR can hold, there is no such thing as keeping a week's worth of free space available. I have to watch a few hours a day, or old stuff is going to get deleted. Since I don't always get to watch a few hours a day, the display of what's due to be deleted is handy for me, so that I can put off deletion of what's important to me. On reflection I may well decide that I don't care whether I watch this or that movie again or not. (If I've seen a movie before and space is getting short, I usually view a bit of it to judge the HD transfer quality. If it's no better than a DVD--or sometimes worse--it's outta there ;)).

I still don't think you'll see many remaining space gauges in future IPG-based DVRs. Neither TiVo or Replay (I think) have them.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
I still don't think you'll see many remaining space gauges in future IPG-based DVRs. Neither TiVo or Replay (I think) have them.

Since remaining space is a very approximate measure of remaining time, I suspect that you are right. I'd hate to be a cable company's underpaid customer support rep trying to explain to an irate customer why the 4 gigabytes of remaining disk space was not enough to hold an important show.

-barry

A quick question about switching the SA8000HD from HD to SD mode. I have no problem switching the box to SD mode but when I try to switch it back to HD I have to toggle over and over till it finally goes back to HD. Anyone have a fix for this?

Originally posted by beatles6
A quick question about switching the SA8000HD from HD to SD mode. I have no problem switching the box to SD mode but when I try to switch it back to HD I have to toggle over and over till it finally goes back to HD. Anyone have a fix for this? I may be wrong, but this sounds like an SARA question. This is the "Passport only" thread. You might want to ask in the generic SA8000HD thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&goto=lastpost&threadid=352604).

Ah. I see that you've already asked the question there, and, judging by this (http://www2.twcnyc.com/downloads/DVRinstall7x7p.pdf) DVR user's guide on TWC NYC's site, you are using Passport.

What do you mean by "SD Mode" and how do you get into it?

Originally posted by michaeltscott
I may be wrong, but this sounds like an SARA question. This is the "Passport only" thread. You might want to ask in the generic SA8000HD thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&goto=lastpost&threadid=352604).

Beatles6 identifies his location as being New York City, which is a "Passport only" system.

If he's in NYC and using TW, he's got Passport. As for his question, I don't completely understand it.

Yeah, I did a little research and modified my post to reflect the fact that I now know that he is using Passport while you guys were writing those posts to inform me ;).

I still don't know what he means by "SD Mode" and how he toggles into and out of it. I know that there's some remote operation that people do in SARA that toggles "SD Mode", but it didn't do anything on my box and I wasn't really that interested, so I didn't look into it much further.

Originally posted by hall
If he's in NYC and using TW, he's got Passport. As for his question, I don't completely understand it.

Yes, I have the Passport software. Let me try and clarify my question. I can easily switch to SD mode by pressing the Ch+ Vol- buttons on the front of the box at the same time until SD is displayed. The problem is reversing back to HD using this same method. The box displays HD on the front of it but then after a few seconds goes back in to SD mode. I have to repeat this process of holding down the buttons many times until it finally switches and stays in HD mode. I am doing this while the box is on. My question is...is there a different procedure for switching back to the HD mode where I don't have to press the Ch+ Vol- buttons over and over until the box finally goes back to the HD mode?

Originally posted by michaeltscott

I still don't know what he means by "SD Mode" and how he toggles into and out of it. I know that there's some remote operation that people do in SARA that toggles "SD Mode", but it didn't do anything on my box and I wasn't really that interested, so I didn't look into it much further.

MichaelScott -- Presumably, he's referring to how the 8000HDs used in NYC can be cycled between SD Mode and HD Mode by simultaneously pressing on the Ch. (+) and Vol. (-) buttons on the box (not the remote).

Okay--what is "SD Mode"? (I didn't try doing this at the box--it's possible that it will work here as well).

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Okay--what is "SD Mode"? (I didn't try doing this at the box--it's possible that it will work here as well).

I never use it myself, but I believe that when the 8000HD is put in SD Mode, it outputs only 480i and the S-Video and Composite outputs are activated.

Originally posted by Manatus
I never use it myself, but I believe that when the 8000HD is put in SD Mode, it outputs only 480i and the S-Video and Composite outputs are activated.

Correct.

The 8000HD (either Passport or Sara) is designed to be capable of running on a SD only TV if necessary. Under Passport, you can toggle between the two modes by simultaneously pressing the Vol- and Channel+ keys ON THE BOX (not the remote). The display on the 8000HD will display either HD or SD to indicate which mode it is now in. In HD mode, video signal only comes out of the component video connectors. In SD mode, video only comes out of the coax and s-video connectors. [Actually, I've never tested to component out connectors in SD mode, so I'm not sure about the previous sentence.] For me, switching to SD, although hokey, provides the easiest way to copy shows to my VCR. It's easier than the PIP method because the PIP window closes itself after 30 minutes.

As to the original question, I'm stumped, although I do have one hunch. When I first tried this toggle "trick", I pressed and held down the two buttons. This leads to inconsistent results. All you need to do is momentarily and simultaneously press the two buttons. I have not had the beatles6 problem.

-barry

There is a way to switch between HD and SD mode even with the passport software. I don't remember the key sequence off the top of my head.
I've done it and confirm that it works.
People have been using it, so that the S-video output would be enabled.
(In HD mode, the s-video is disabled).

Also, my SA8000HD had a strange habit of switching me to SD mode randomly by itself. This seems to have been fixed a few days ago.

I recorded a show that I plan to copy to VHS for my Mom. Any hints or is it as simple as connecting the VCR via either RF or AV and running it ??

I've seen people imply I have to put the box in SD mode to do this (i.e. get anything to output via RF or AV).

You have two options.

1. You can connect your VCR to the "VCR Archive" connectors (composite video) on the back of the 8000hd. Then, anything you play in the PIP window will also be routed to the VCR Archive connectors. The problem with this, for me, is that the PIP window seems to automatically close itself after 30 minutes of "inactivity". You can get around this by using the remote to move the PIP window about every 20 minutes. A pain in the neck, but it works.

2. Put the 8000HD into SD mode (simultaneously press the Ch+ and Vol- keys on the box itself to toggle between HD mode and SD mode). Then the video comes out of the coax and s-video connectors, so you can connect one of those to your VCR. I just discovered this a few days ago, and I've tested it in principle, but I haven't actually recorded a videotape yet, so there are no guarantees.

-barry

As far as I know, VCR Archive has not been enabled yet. I spent about an hour on this only just last week with a friend, and even the idiotic TWCNYC Customer Service people didn't know this. I looked at the manual that it came with and it clearly states that the feature has not been activated yet. I also tried setting the output to 480i only, and it still didn't work.

Originally posted by margoba
You have two options.


2. Put the 8000HD into SD mode (simultaneously press the Ch+ and Vol- keys on the box itself to toggle between HD mode and SD mode). Then the video comes out of the coax and s-video connectors, so you can connect one of those to your VCR. I just discovered this a few days ago, and I've tested it in principle, but I haven't actually recorded a videotape yet, so there are no guarantees.

-barry

I can confirm that this does work. I have recorded several programs on my DVD recorder which is connected through the S video output on the 8000HD. Like I stated before the only difficulty has been getting the 8000HD back in to HD mode.

Well, I tried it here and it does something. I didn't see "Sd" displayed, but I did notice "Hd" at one point while playing with it. The S-Video output is connected to my TiVo (which I really ought to take out of the mix, since I cancelled my service a couple of months ago :)), but it doesn't seem to see anything there. I will play with directly wiring it to the S-video input on the television that the TiVo is connected to. When it was in SD mode, what was coming out of the component connector was not at all pretty (very grainy, almost monochrome).

Interesting and worth a little more experimentation.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
When it was in SD mode, what was coming out of the component connector was not at all pretty (very grainy, almost monochrome).


That's because when the thing is in SD mode, the middle component jack functions as the machine's composite output jack. Just another brilliant SA innovation.

Originally posted by Manatus
That's because when the thing is in SD mode, the middle component jack functions as the machine's composite output jack. Just another brilliant SA innovation.

That explains it the video side. But why wasn't I getting any audio? I think my friend's 8000HD must have had old firmware or something. It was only 1 wk old at the time. I've had mine for 2 months, and I my firmware has been updated twice AFAIK, the latest was last night at 4:30am!

So apparently in SD mode you need to disconnect your component video connection in order to use the Y RCA output as the 480i composite output. Though shouldn't s-video output be active at the same time? That would allow you to not disconnect the HD component output (though it wouldn't work correct as noted while in SD mode) but thats OK just connect the s-video output from the SA8000HD to your VCR's s-video input and connect the vCR's s-video output to the Tv's s-video input and select that input while in SD mode. Make sure the VCR is setup to record from its auxilary input.

As far as audio you need to use a couple RCA Y-splitters to split the main analog stereo audio (red/white RCA) outputs to both the TV and the VCR inputs. Don't use the "archive to VCR" video or audio outputs at all - they aren't activated in SD mode.

If you're not real concerned about the quality of the videotape you produce, just use the coax cable from the 8000hd to the vcr and voila, Bob's your uncle - you get both audio and video to the VCR without disconnecting the HD component outputs.

-barry

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Well, I tried it here and it does something. I didn't see "Sd" displayed, but I did notice "Hd" at one point while playing with it. The S-Video output is connected to my TiVo (which I really ought to take out of the mix, since I cancelled my service a couple of months ago :)), but it doesn't seem to see anything there. I will play with directly wiring it to the S-video input on the television that the TiVo is connected to. When it was in SD mode, what was coming out of the component connector was not at all pretty (very grainy, almost monochrome).

Interesting and worth a little more experimentation.

Sd is definitely displayed on my box, as is Hd.

-barry

Originally posted by peteyspambucket
As far as I know, VCR Archive has not been enabled yet. I spent about an hour on this only just last week with a friend, and even the idiotic TWCNYC Customer Service people didn't know this. I looked at the manual that it came with and it clearly states that the feature has not been activated yet. I also tried setting the output to 480i only, and it still didn't work.

It works for me. There is no "VCR Archive" choice on the menus, like with Sara, but if I connect the middle row of composite outputs, labeled "OUT 2 (VCR)", to my VCR, then whatever is playing in the PIP window gets routed to the VCR. I'm currently at Passport version 059, but this has been working for me for several months now.

-barry

Originally posted by margoba
Sd is definitely displayed on my box, as is Hd.Oh, given that I saw the "Hd", I have no doubt that "Sd" was being displayed as well. I just wasn't paying attention at the time. No big.

I tried copying to videotape. I connected the VCR via RF (Cable out on the back of the 8000) and did the front-panel switch 'til it displayed "Sd". It didn't seem to want to stick though, as it kept reverting to Hd on it's own. Didn't someone else mention this too ?? I finally got it to say "Sd" and not switch (visibly), changed the output to 480i only, probably not necessary, I know, and recorded *static*. :(

I fiddled with a bit for a little while. Tried different coax cables, etc, etc ... no luck with anything. I will try it again sometime hopefully after someone else can get some valid step-by-step instructions. :)

Make sure that you press Ch+ and Vol- simultaneously and only momentarily (don't hold them down for a few seconds like I did at first). Sometimes this results in the cable box channel being moved up by one, but you can fix that after the fact.

Also, be sure your VCR is tuned to channel 3.

-barry

Update on setting SD mode. I just tried it again on my setup and had problems at first because my VCR was turned on and set to Line input. I now seem to remember reading somewhere that to change to SD mode, the 8000HD must have a live connection on either the s-video or coax connection. When I turned my VCR off, allowing coax passthru, the box allowed me to switch to SD with no problems. I was then able to turn on the VCR, change to channel 3, and record CNN.

So I guess the instructions for coax are:
1. Connect the cables from box to VCR to TV.
2. Turn on the TV, turn off the VCR.
3. Press Ch+ and Vol- simultaneously.
4. Once in SD mode, turn on the VCR and set it to record from channel 3.

-barry

So apparently in SD mode you need to disconnect your component video connection in order to use the Y RCA output as the 480i composite output. Though shouldn't s-video output be active at the same time? That would allow you to not disconnect the HD component output (though it wouldn't work correct as noted while in SD mode) but thats OK just connect the s-video output from the SA8000HD to your VCR's s-video input and connect the vCR's s-video output to the Tv's s-video input and select that input while in SD mode. Make sure the VCR is setup to record from its auxiliary input. I just got the box on Saturday. It has the latest update as referenced above & has been performing flawlessly (so far), with none of the problems described above. The HD pic is MUCH better than my old SA box (BTW, I was the first non-TW executive to get an HD box in NYC, back in 11/01--they told me that I was the 6th box installed in the City!), so I've had TWHD for quite a while, and the picture from the SA8000HD is WAY better than what I had before, even the SD channels look miles better with the upconversion. I have a Sony 36XBR-450, and It displays SD as full 4x3 thru the Component 1 input (I didn't even know that 4X3 could be displayed there!), so now I can watch everything thru component & my wife can deal with changing the channels! There IS a delay whenever the TV switches aspect ratios, but it's a small price to pay. I have the box connected to the TV via the component inputs (no audio is connected to the TV), and everything else (digital & analog audio using the regular analog output, not the archive one, and S-video) is routed thru my receiver (Yamaha DSP-A1). The S-VHS is also connected only to the receiver, and I tape everything using Line1). All I have to do is switch to SD via the 2-button push,and everything works just like it did before I got the box. It doesn't matter if the VCR is turned on or not, and CH3 doesn't figure in to this (but it works also). Thanks to all of you for your expert advice on archiving, as it was driving me crazy all weekend!

BTW: My box displays the multi-page info on CH 1999.

BTW, BTW: I have it set to 1080i & 480P 4X3 stretch.

I just noticed something odd in my "series recording" list. One of my future recordings is showing up in the guide as black instead of red. And it looks different in my series recording list as well - it has a "rec" symbol next to the show's name. Nothing else is treated that way. What's up with that? Anyone else seen it?

Originally posted by archiguy
I just noticed something odd in my "series recording" list. One of my future recordings is showing up in the guide as black instead of red. And it looks different in my series recording list as well - it has a "rec" symbol next to the show's name. Nothing else is treated that way. What's up with that? Anyone else seen it?

I've seen that a few times and i *think* it might mean that the schedule for that time slot has changed and the show will not be recorded, but i just can't remember if that was the case or not. It's trying to tell you something but i don't know what it is.

What's a "rec" symbol? If you have a conflict (three series recordings which overlap), the lowest priority series will show up kind of greyed out in the scheduled recording list, with a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Is that what you're seeing?

Originally posted by michaeltscott
What's a "rec" symbol? If you have a conflict (three series recordings which overlap), the lowest priority series will show up kind of greyed out in the scheduled recording list, with a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Is that what you're seeing?

Yes, that's it Mike. It was speaking a different language to me than I had seen before. I absent-mindedly had tried to set up 3 different recordings in the same time slot. I'd done that once before, and it "warned" me about it - gave me a warning screen that said there was a conflict and gave me a choice of which recording I wanted to flush. Very thoughtful of it, I mused. This time, it didn't give me that warning screen. What it did do was black out the first recording I had scheduled in the Guide, and grayed out that recording in the "Scheduled Recordings" list just as Mike described above. It was trying to warn me; I was just too stupid to understand its language. :eek:

Anyway, now I know it can give you a warning two different ways. Thank goodness ABC is repeating that "lost" episode of LOST on Saturday. Saved by the network programmers!

Originally posted by EricScott
Except if you have the Archive to VCR function enabled, in which case you can output whatever is in the PIP window over composite or S-Vid.

1) Can you Archive NTSC Preimum (HBO) programs?

2) Can you Archive HD Preimum (HBO-HD) programs?

3) Can you Archive OTA HD programs?

If so, are they auto letterboxed upon output?

AND, if you switch to SD mode -- can you record (VHS/DVD) PayPerView channels?

d-v-c,

I can answer some of your questions and speculate on others.

1. Yes, you can archive NTSC premium programs. I'm not sure about pay-per-views.

2. HD premium programs: I've never actually tried this, but I think you can.

3. Don't know.

The programs are auto-letterboxed.

I've often used the switch to SD mode for videotaping, but I've never tried a PPV show. On the other hand, I'm sure it would work, since you can videotape any show that you can watch.

-barry

Originally posted by archiguy
Anyway, now I know it can give you a warning two different ways. Thank goodness ABC is repeating that "lost" episode of LOST on Saturday. Saved by the network programmers! I just noticed that I had one of these in my scheduled recordings. I find that this happens sometimes when I have a series recording too broadly specified, particularly for one of the premium cable series--the same episode of something will be on 5 time one week on as may different channels in the HBO tier and if the series recording entry is specified loosely, it will try to record them all, which is bound to overlap something. This is one place where this thing is notably dumber than TiVo--it won't record any matching episodes which have been recorded in the past 28 days (or something like that).

You're right--the little circle with a slash through it is on top of the text "REC", making an icon for "No REC". I'd seen the grayed out scheduled recording entries, but had never noticed the corresponding black slots on the guide grid.

I noticed this symbol last night for the first time.... It was shows we marked as "series" and as you say, we didn't narrow down the "search" that the box will do. In my case, my local CBS is channel 7 (analog) and 707 (digital). It found both of them, rightfully so. Not sure if I had another program set to record at the same time and therefore would have needed (3) slots or if it simply could tell they were (probably) duplicates.

Here's some undocumented features that most of you already know about, but some here may not be aware of. There are other tricks i'm probably forgetting about, but these are the ones i use the most, all compiled in one post.

Edit: Updated on 6/19/05:

Slow Motion - Quickly double-tap the PLAY key. To resume playback hit the PLAY key once.


Slow Motion - Hit PAUSE first, then hold down the Right Arrow key and it goes into Slo-Mo.


Frame by frame advance - hit PAUSE first, then repeatedly tap the Right Arrow key


Swap from one tuner to the other - Press the Pip's SWAP button only (don't press Pip)


Recording Options - after selecting a show to record, press SELECT again and a menu
pops up where you can change settings for that particular recording (like save until
manually erased, record entire series, start early/late etc)


Commercial Advance (sorta) - When you're FF'ing through a block of commercials,
hit PLAY as soon as you see the show resume, and the unit jumps back to the right
where the show resumes. Takes practice and quick eyes to get it just right :-)


Jump Ahead to 15 minute marks - When in FF mode you can jump ahead to the next
15 minute interval by pressing the Right Arrow key.


Jump Backwards to 15 minute marks - Hit the Rewind key then press the Left Arrow
key to go backwards. Handy when joining a show in progress and you want to skip
back to the beginning.


Create Manual Recording - Press REC and a menu will pop up giving you an option to
Create a Manual Recording. Press SELECT and you'll be able to navigate around and
create your manual recording just like you did with your VCR.


To make the Bar Graph or a Menu disappear no matter what you're doing, just hit the EXIT key.


When in the Guide, see a particular channel listing by entering the direct channel
number using the number keys (like 7, or 200, or 1182 etc).


Another way to quickly skip through channels in the guide is to press the FAV button.
It will jump directly to the next channel on your List of Favorite Channels and is actually
more useful than when watching live TV. Faster in the guide at least.


When in the Guide, hit the A key to skip ahead 100 channels at a time.


When in the Guide, to quickly scan hours or days ahead, press and HOLD the Right Arrow
key and it starts advancing through the hours really fast and you can see the days advancing
too. When you get close to the day you want start watching the hours again and take your
finger off the button which will dump you close to the time you're looking for on that day.
If you go more than a few days ahead you'll probably see "No Data" for a few moments
while the new data loads. If you go too far ahead it will not load new data (i can go forward
about 5-6 days typically, but sometimes only 3 or 4 days).


When in the Guide, to quickly skip several days ahead, press a number key then quickly
press the Right Arrow key. Use number 2 to scan two days ahead, use 4 for four days, etc.
Same No Data rules apply as above.


To search by Theme, bring up the Guide normally then hit the B key to bring up the
list of Themes.


While searching by Theme, you can either scroll down by hitting the Down Arrow key
or hit the B key to skp to the next group of Themes (like Sports, Lifestyles, News, Family,
etc) then use the Down or Up Arrow keys to scroll through the subheadings in that group.
When you've highlighted a Theme you want (say, Sports) Right Arrow over into the
Programs section the pressing the B key again skips down one page at a time. Zero in
on the show you want using the Down or Up Arrow key.


To search by Title, bring up the Guide normally then hit the C key to bring up the A-Z column.
Then to search for a particular title, you can either scroll down through the A-Z alphabet to
the letter you want, or hit the C key to advance to the next page of letters. Once you settle
on a letter, Right Arrow into the list of Programs then either scroll down with the Down Arrow
key or hit the C key to skip down to the next title group. When you land on the show you're looking
for, hit the Record key and a menu will pop up giving you the option of recording that particular
showing or Recording the entire series. You can then go into your Series Manager and fine tune
the settings.

You can change the way the DVR changes channels. If you press the * key this switches to
a mode where you will have to press the SELECT key to complete a direct channel change
or to skip to a specific channel in the Guide. So now you have to press 4 then quickly press
SELECT to complete the channel change. This is to prevent you from accidentally hitting a
number key then losing your existing show's buffer when the channel suddenly changes.
I hate when that happens! This mode eliminates that problem :-) To restore normal
operation, press the INFO button to bring up the progress bar, then quickly hit the * key.
Or reboot the DVR - that also resets this back to the default.
EDIT: This apparently no longer works in the newer versions of Passport.


To get to the multi-page Diagnostics screen, simultaneously press and hold the front panel's
SELECT and EXIT buttons till DIAGNO appears then release the buttons, then press EXIT and
the the box tunes itself to the multi-page Diagnostics channel. To exit press Ch + or Ch -

Originally posted by RandyWalters
Recording Options - after selecting a show to record, press SELECT again and a menu pops up where you can change settings for that particular recording (like save until manually erased, start early/late etc) If you are doing a "series" recording, there's a wealth of *different* options available under "List", then "C" for Series Recording and options there. Originally posted by RandyWalters
Commercial Advance (sorta) - When you're FF'ing through a block of commercials, hit PLAY as soon as you see the show resume, and the unit jumps back to the right where the show resumes. Takes practice and quick eyes to get it just right :-) I've seen that happen .... sometimes. Not sure what the exact circumstances are though. Sometimes it backs up, other times it doesn't. It is nice though and if I nail it right, I get a smirk on my face. :)

I've created "rube goldburg" sorts of 30 second and 3 minute skip ahead buttons using the macro functions of an MX-800. Doesn't always work exactly right but gets you close. Too bad they can't give us a good, precise software solution for skip ahead buttons via an upgrade. Or more accurately, they choose not to since it wouldn't be difficult. Talk about a value-added feature!

According to people over at the Yahoo! Groups for the Explorer 8000, the box in fact had a software function for a 30-second skip that could be accessed more simply with programmable remotes (not using macros and what-not). At some point, SciAtl completely disabled or removed this portion of the software.

I doubt it's coming back....

I've actually seen all of these features documented. I searched around to find use of HD DVRs by providers and snooped their sites for DVR documentation to see if they were running Passport Echo on their boxes. As I recall, the best doc I found was for a Cox provider--I have uploaded them to my Yahoo Briefcase in this (http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/michaelts2002/lst?.dir=/shared+documents/passport+documentation&.src=bc&.view=l&BCID=michaelts2002) folder. Everything that you mentioned, Randy, is in these docs, except for the tuner-swap thing; they're for Passport Echo running on Motorola boxes and PIP doesn't seem to be supported (everything else works exactly the same).

I've had these docs for a couple of months and it never occured to me to post them--selfish me. Sorry :D.

Automatic back-up/"back-down" after a fast-forward or rewind is a TiVo and Replay feature that I always found to be annoying. I turned it off in TiVo's back-door mode.

One more "undocumented" feature (it's in those documents ;)): in the guide, press a digit and quickly press the right-arrow or left-arrow to advance that many days ahead or back, respectively. If you're looking at Saturday, 3+RIGHT goes instantly to the same time on Tuesday. Well, not always instantly--it sometimes has to pause and download new guide data if you go far enough ahead.

Originally posted by hall
According to people over at the Yahoo! Groups for the Explorer 8000, the box in fact had a software function for a 30-second skip that could be accessed more simply with programmable remotes (not using macros and what-not). At some point, SciAtl completely disabled or removed this portion of the software.

I doubt it's coming back.... I wouldn't be surprised. Commercial skipping has always been controversial. I'm sure that we all recall the broadcasters' suit against Sonic Blue for the automatic remove-all-commercials on playback feature that they put into ReplayTV. Defending themselves from that suit was arguably what took them into receivership (toward the end, they were soliciting donations from the public), and the buyer of Replay sensibly removed the feature from the product which they now sell.

Broadcast television is paid for completely by advertisement and non-premium cable/DBS-only channels (A&E, SciFi, etc) are supplemented by that income. Supposedly the advertisers are getting increasingly tight with their money because they perceive that television is become an increasingly less effective advertising medium. Over the years, this has led to broadcast television becoming populated with less and less expensive programming, beginning with the flood of "news magazines", which have nearly been replaced by the even cheaper "reality" show.

People have gotten awfully good at ignoring interstitial ads even without electronic commercial-skip gimmicks; they get up and go the the bathroom, make quick phone calls, grab a snack. The experienced television watcher has a keen internal sense of the length of the standard commercial break and will sit back down just as it ends.

I can see where the cable SOs might ask SA to remove a feature like that. They sell local advertisement on the cable-only channels; giving their home customers the ability to automatically skip them without even a glance is hardly in their interest.

Personally, I rarely watch television live. If there's nothing on that I want to watch except for something that I'm currently recording, I'll either watch another recording for a while or go do something else for half an hour. I don't mind zapping the ads manually. I sometimes catch a glimpse of things which interest me, like ads for new movies, or an interesting new car or gadget.

Eventually there should be dual-tuner CableCARD DVRs with at least instant 30-second skip. Replay has gotten away with that all along without invoking the wrath of Hollywood. TiVo has it as a "back-door" option; why they never added it as a feature in new products is beyond me (or maybe they have). BTW--I love the way that Replay describes the feature: "Quickskip Skip 30 seconds of a recorded or delayed show. Great for skipping those slow scenes." :D

I thought TiVo had it clearly labeled on their remotes for years or something but recently removed it .... just the obvious key on the remote though. The function is still there if you search for it (on the 'net).

Dish Network, on the other hand, makes no attempt to hide it. There's a 30-second skip-ahead button on the remote. I don't recall if the manual goes into detail about it though. This page, http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/dvr/index.shtml, clearly states Skip through commercials on recorded programs.

The last TiVo that I bought was a 30-hour analog Series-1 Sony, about 3 years ago. It did not have a 30-second skip button. They may have added it to models since then, but, according to this (http://customersupport.tivo.com/resources/pdf/series2post/Ibis_UG_Chapters/Ibis_Chapter5.pdf) document at their site, the current Series-2 analog units has no such documented function. The same chapter of the HD DirecTiVo Guide (here (http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/DIRECTV/DIRECTV_HR10-250.pdf), on PDF page 80) is nearly identical. No skip.

As I said previously, you could get into "back-door mode" and enable an undocumented 30-second skip function, replacing, I believe, the 7-second instant-replay button (I don't think I have ever used that).

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Eventually there should be dual-tuner CableCARD DVRs with at least instant 30-second skip. Replay has gotten away with that all along without invoking the wrath of Hollywood. TiVo has it as a "back-door" option; why they never added it as a feature in new products is beyond me (or maybe they have). BTW--I love the way that Replay describes the feature: "Quickskip Skip 30 seconds of a recorded or delayed show. Great for skipping those slow scenes." :D

One reason why Tivo doesn't have that feature might be because one of the bigger investors in Tivo is NBC. Bob Wright, the President of NBC made the investment as a hedge against the potential loss of advertizing revenue because of DVR users. He's said publicly that he sees it as the future of television, and that the networks will have to seriously rethink their revenue models. (This was also a motive behind NBC's aquisition of Universal, which among other things produces all of the Law & Order series, thus consolidating all of the profit for the show under one corporate entity.) His vision doesn't seem too far off, its just that Tivo has fallen behind with the popularity of cableco provided DVRs...
-JMP

Originally posted by RandyWalters
Swap from one tuner to the other - Press the Pip's SWAP button only (don't press Pip)As I said previously, this is the only feature in that list of tips that I hadn't seen documented and I was unaware of it. I've played with it a little--it could create a totally new style of watching "live" television. Both tuners keep separate trick-play buffers, so you can pause at the beginning of commercials, swap, watch until the other channel hits an ad, pause it, swap and zap the previous channel's ads, and go back and forth like that. Of course, this only works with two channels with unsynchronous ads.

I doubt that I'd actually use this capability, but it's amusing.

I am not sure if this question has been covered before, but my DVR was installed yesterday (Passport Echo 1.5.159) and I find the HD picture quality significantly softer than the SA3100HD's. I wonder if is the general feeling or it is only my unit.

Relative PQ of this unit to others has certainly been brought up. There is no general consensus and I doubt that one could be reached about a subjective impression of something measured on such a wide variety of combinations of equipment. For instance, I went from the SA3100HD to the Pioneer 3510HD, which I found to deliver greatly superior PQ--the SA8000HD seems to be at least as good as the Pioneer box to me, on my television. Your mileage may vary (and, obviously, does).

Go to the other thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352604) and do a search for "pq or soft" (I did it for 162 hits) for some people's impressions.

SD/HD Volume Stops Working!

To make videotapes, I've been using the 'trick' of switching to SD mode and recording. Suddenly, a couple of days ago, when I switch to SD mode, I no longer get any sound on the coax cable at all. The picture's fine. I've checked my cabling. And, I do get sound when I play an old video, so the vcr and tv seem to be working OK.

Anybody else seeing this problem?

-barry

Originally posted by FredB
I am not sure if this question has been covered before, but my DVR was installed yesterday (Passport Echo 1.5.159) and I find the HD picture quality significantly softer than the SA3100HD's. I wonder if is the general feeling or it is only my unit.

I've noticed the same thing - HD PQ doesn't quite have the Wow! factor that it did on my Pioneer 3510HD box. Unfortunately the cable guy too my 3510HD with him when he installed the SA8000HD so can't compare them side by side, but i'm sure the HD images are a little softer and less vibrant than before.

I agree - I put in the 8000HD and was no doubt diappointed with the significantly softer HD picture quality than my previous Pio 3510. With all of the great HD sports on right now, I'm bummed that I'm missing it.

That said, the SD quality was a step up from the 3510. But, I'll take the 3510 over this box any day. I heard about an 8300 model that's supposedly coming soon, that has similar PQ as the 3510. Fingers crossed.

Do you have the "Output Formats" set to allow 1080i and 720p and 480p. Your TV set can probably convert them to it's natural frequency better than the 8000HD. It does, on my TV's, take much longer to do it that way, but the picture is sometimes sharper.

-barry

Originally posted by FredB
I am not sure if this question has been covered before, but my DVR was installed yesterday (Passport Echo 1.5.159) and I find the HD picture quality significantly softer than the SA3100HD's. I wonder if is the general feeling or it is only my unit.

Yes. you are not alone. I switched from the Pioneer 3510 to the SA 8000HD.The picture is noticeable softer for HD, especially when watching DiscoverHD.


I'm surprised no one has mentioned this... you can go fwd/backwards days on the tv guide using the day +/- buttons. No need to hold down the right arrow key.

Originally posted by timewaster
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this... you can go fwd/backwards days on the tv guide using the day +/- buttons. No need to hold down the right arrow key. Uh, what "day +/-" buttons are you talking about?

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Uh, what "day +/-" buttons are you talking about?

These two:

http://tinypic.com/efu2v

That's a close-up of the remote distributed by TWCNYC with the 8000HD. Do you have a different model?

Originally posted by timewaster
Yes. you are not alone. I switched from the Pioneer 3510 to the SA 8000HD.The picture is noticeable softer for HD, especially when watching DiscoverHD. Well, I used to have a SA HD box & the 8000HD has a MUCH better pic than that one did, HD AND SD.

Originally posted by Manatus
These two:

http://tinypic.com/efu2v

That's a close-up of the remote distributed by TWCNYC with the 8000HD. Do you have a different model? Ah. Thanks a lot for that picture. The one that we (and, I believe, many other systems) have is this (http://www.twc-sa.com/remotes/AtlasDVRManual.pdf) one. Note that on it, there's nothing between the MUTE and LAST buttons and the FAV button is where the DAY+ and DAY- buttons are on yours.

Originally posted by Manatus
That's a close-up of the remote distributed by TWCNYC with the 8000HD. Do you have a different model? The remotes TW in Western OH distribute do NOT have these buttons.

On the subject of remotes and the SA boxes, has anyone found a reasonably priced 3rd party remote that has the all-important "A", "B", and "C" buttons ??

Originally posted by hall
The remotes TW in Western OH distribute do NOT have these buttons.

On the subject of remotes and the SA boxes, has anyone found a reasonably priced 3rd party remote that has the all-important "A", "B", and "C" buttons ??

I have the Atlas 5-device remote and it doesn't have any day buttons. Is that remote with the Day+/- buttons used on a Passport DVR?

I looked high and low for a universal remote that had the A B C keys but found nothing. I ended up with a $30 radio shack learing remote and taught 3 unused buttons to do the A B C thing.

Originally posted by Larry Geller
Well, I used to have a SA HD box & the 8000HD has a MUCH better pic than that one did, HD AND SD.

What kind of HD converter did you have before? Whatever it was, it must have had a pretty bad HD picture if the SA8000HD looks better !! Still, my previous Pioneer 3510HD had an awesome HD picture, and SD through composite looked pretty good too.

Originally posted by RandyWalters
I have the Atlas 5-device remote and it doesn't have any day buttons. Is that remote with the Day+/- buttons used on a Passport DVR?

I looked high and low for a universal remote that had the A B C keys but found nothing. I ended up with a $30 radio shack learing remote and taught 3 unused buttons to do the A B C thing.

Yep. We're on a Passport system. The remote in question is the Universal Remote Control, Inc. Model UR5-8400 and was distributed by TWCNYC. It came with several pages of minutely-spaced instructions about how to use its universal remote control functions. I may get around to adding that complication to my life after I master the art of tying my own shoelaces.

Originally posted by timewaster
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this... you can go fwd/backwards days on the tv guide using the day +/- buttons. No need to hold down the right arrow key. [/B]

This feature will work on the remotes that don't have the "Day +/Day -" buttons (and in fact, works on ANY Passport software, not just the DVR version!) by bringing up the guide, quickly pressing the number of days you want to go forward or back (i.e. 2 for 2 days forward) and then [quickly] the right arrow for days forward or the left arrow for days back.

I used to use this function all the time on my non-DVR (even non-HD) box and was psyched to see the day +/day - buttons on my new remote for the 8000HD.

Scott

sorry,
I just assumed everyone had the same remote.
I should've known better since its TW.
The software I am using is passport. The remote they give you is the standard one in NYC.

Originally posted by RandyWalters
What kind of HD converter did you have before? Whatever it was, it must have had a pretty bad HD picture if the SA8000HD looks better !! Still, my previous Pioneer 3510HD had an awesome HD picture, and SD through composite looked pretty good too. Randy, I stated above that I had a Pioneer 3510 just before I got the SA8000HD and the 8000HD is delivering HD over component video that's at least as sharp as the Pioneer box, if not sharper. Others have reported the same impression in the other thread. Many others have reported that they're seeing a "softer" image, like you.

I'd guess that it's probably a matter of compatiblity between analog electronics. Viewing the same channel on my OTA tuner as on the cable box will produce markedly different results, but I can tweak the television's picture parameters to make it look the same. I'm fairly certain that it has nothing to do with the how the box creates the image, bit-wise.

Originally posted by RandyWalters
I looked high and low for a universal remote that had the A B C keys but found nothing. I ended up with a $30 radio shack learing remote and taught 3 unused buttons to do the A B C thing. In my case, it would need to be family-friendly though... I don't know how well it would go over explaining "when you need to hit "A", press the "whatever" key on the remote". :)

I also have an Atlas 5-device remote. It looks identical to the ones shown on SciAtl's website.

Originally posted by scott_bernstein
...bringing up the guide, quickly pressing the number of days you want to go forward or back (i.e. 2 for 2 days forward) and then [quickly] the right arrow for days forward or the left arrow for days back.Well, I did mention that several posts above (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4548936#post4548936)). I didn't realize that it was there before getting the DVR though.I used to use this function all the time on my non-DVR (even non-HD) box and was psyched to see the day +/day - buttons on my new remote for the 8000HD.Can you use digits with them?

So today I signed up to get my box, and it will arrive on the 6th. Since everyone here is talking remotes, has anyone been able to program a Pronto to run their box. Just wondering, since thats what I'll be attempting. I've seen threads that say it hard to get a touch screen remote to work properly with a DVR. Thoughts?

I haven't used my old Pronto in a very long time, but I didn't have any trouble using it with TiVo. I also used a Proton touchscreen with TiVo w/o problem. I don't see what the difficulty would be.

thats good to hear. I actually have the TSU-3000, and love its flexibility. I thought I remembered hearing some complaints in the past regarding its functionality with the DVRs, but maybe its just me.

Sounds like there is some variation when it comes to remotes for Time Warner cable. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Time Warner gave me this remote Link (http://www.twc-sa.com/remotes/images/AT8400_large.pdf) . No day selection buttons -- however, I will try the day advance trick when I get home tonight. Great forum!

Also, my Discovery HD channel is not "soft" at all. It's gorgeous and just as crisp as all of my other HD channels. It is my SD channels which appear "soft".

JK27

Originally posted by JK27
Also, my Discovery HD channel is not "soft" at all. It's gorgeous and just as crisp as all of my other HD channels. It is my SD channels which appear "soft".

Last night i borrowed my neighbor's Pioneer 3510HD and connected it alongside my SA8000HD to compare them. I was able to switch inputs back and forth on the TV and HDNet and Discover-HD on the 3510HD definitely looks sharper and more vibrant than it does on my new SA8000HD, just as i thought. I swapped component inputs and checked again and still the 3510HD looked better. The difference is quite noticeable. He saw the same thing.

I can't complain too much, i missed a lot of HD shows because i'm not home or awake when they were on so at least now i can record them and watch em on my own schedule.

Randy, you and I seem to share the same problem with the soft PQ, but with different solutions. It looks like you elected to live with it as you need to do a lot of time shifting. Me, on the other hand, not being a dedicated time shifter, I just cannot sacrifice the PQ for the convenience of a DVR. This morning I checked out the HDNet test pattern and sure enough, 8000HD's resolution is literally one notch below SA3100HD's (a reading of 9 vs. barely 8 on the DVR on a scale of 1 to 10) TWC will be coming this weekend to exchange the DVR with a regular HD box.

One more thing; when I reported the soft PQ to TWC, this is the response I got. I am copying it here just to laugh:

"We apologize for the inconvenience. You should not be experiencing a
drastic change in picture quality. We would like to schedule a service
appointment to look over the cable lines. One of the cable lines may be
damaged."

I will give it another try when 8300's come out.

Fred

Did you try changing the output formats on the 8000HD to allow your TV's rescanning algorithms to be used instead of the 8000HD's? Or changing to output format to match the natural format of your TV so that the image doesn't have to be resized twice?

-barry

Originally posted by FredB
"We apologize for the inconvenience. You should not be experiencing a
drastic change in picture quality. We would like to schedule a service
appointment to look over the cable lines. One of the cable lines may be
damaged." One would imagine that the hardware and software in the 8000 and 3100 are (could be) almost 100% different. Surely TW realizes this, or is your response from "tier 1" tech support ?? Do you have a higher-level contact at your local TW ?? Granted, they won't be able to do much about it, though they do have channels to SciAtl. I don't think they'd blame it on your cabling...

Dumb question: Did you try different component cables ??

Originally posted by FredB
One more thing; when I reported the soft PQ to TWC, this is the response I got. I am copying it here just to laugh:

"We apologize for the inconvenience. You should not be experiencing a
drastic change in picture quality. We would like to schedule a service
appointment to look over the cable lines. One of the cable lines may be
damaged."

TWC tried to blame my cabling for the infamous Freezing problem we had after the mid-August software upgrade. First they sent a Tech out who verified that i was getting a good signal, then later they sent a crew out to replace all my cabling. So now i have RG6 straight from the pole to the back of my TV and my signal is as good as it gets. There's no way the softness of the SA8000HD is because of bad cables, just in case anyone thinks that will sharpen it up :D

Barry - 1080i out from the DVR to my native 1080i TV. No resizing issues that I can think of.

Hall - Unfortunately, I don't have a higher level contact at my local TWC. I must deal with what I have, who are not very intelligent to say the least. I did not try switching interconnect cables on purpose, to protect the integrity of SA3100HD to 8000HD comparison. The TW tech just pulled out the SA3100 from the rack, disconnected the power, audio, S video, composite, component and RF input / output cables (the other ends of all cables remaining attached to the equipment that they belonged,) then slid the 8000HD into the rack reattaching loose ends of the cables. Nothing else in the system was upset or disturbed. I happen to have a set of high quality Canary component cables at home. Now that you mentioned, I will try them tonight and see if they make any difference.

Fred

Originally posted by FredB
Hall - Unfortunately, I don't have a higher level contact at my local TWC. You need to dig around.... I contacted my city's "cable co oversight" person about a different issue. He contacted someone at the local TW and ended up forwarding his message to me. So, now I have a "suit" at TW. I e-mailed him about my problem asking for a good contact. I later rec'd a response from a customer service person, who forwarded my issues to a tier 3 tech support, who acknowledged the problem was beyond their "level". He did ask his supervisor who ended up having the "Director of Network Engineering" contact me. :-) Runabout, wasn't it ?? :-) Important thing is, it worked !

Luckily, their rollout of the HD-DVRs was just starting and they really do want to sort out problems before LOTS of people get these boxes, at least in my area.

Our box seems to be having more problems in the last week:

Last thursday my wife tried to record Will & Grace and when we do "List" "play" all it shows is the silver-grey screen and the time (frozen at 0:00) at the bottom.

Also, when switching between two live HD sources (one was being recorded) the box seemed to have a nervous breakdown, showing distorted images (including the "guide") and playing only bursts of static over the speakers.

It seemed fine until last week?

Has anyone else had problems ordering on-demand movies? My son tried to order a movie last weekend and each time the box rebooted. The movie doesn't show up in my "Viewed" (or whatever it's called) list, so I don't believe I was charged. I don't particularly want to pay for a movie just to try to duplicate the problem.

This is with Passport version .159, in Torrance CA (Time Warner South Bay).

Hehe, not here.... My "power-on" channel is channel "1", which is my local TW's "iControl" or MOD listing channel. I turned the TV on and walked away. I came back in the room and my 2-1/2 daughter had ordered "13 going on 30" !!! :) For what it's worth, doing this isn't a simple matter of hitting the big "SEL" button a few times. You actually have to hit "B" to "BUY" it. Then I'm sure you have to confirm it. She did it though !

Tell me it's just my imagination, but I've noticed this too many times to think it's a fluke....

When FF'ing through commercials and go a bit too far, when you hit Play it backs up. Most people already know this.... Thing is, way too often it backs up *exactly* to the start of the program !! I mean, I might FF 15 seconds too far one time, 27 sec the next, and 9 seconds another time. Hit Play and it goes back the right amount. At first, I thought "it back ups "x" seconds". But there's NO WAY I'm FF'ing the same "x" seconds too far each time. It even did it with my wife last night, though she doesn't believe the DVR is that "smart".

I'm taking a wild-a** guess that it uses some logic based on the fact that commercials are normally in 30-second increments. You fast-forward 30, 60, 90, 120 seconds and so on. If you go 134 seconds (just over two minutes) and hit play, the DVR backs up and assumes you went 14 seconds too far, using the 30-second increment logic.

It never assumes you haven't gone far enough and jump *ahead* to the next interval either. So even if you went 148 seconds into a 150 second (2-1/2 minute) commercial break, it will back up to the 120 second point (and you walk a commercial).

Or is this just wishful thinking on my part ?? :) For what it's worth, I don't trust the on-screen timer that much when fast-forwarding. I just don't think it can keep up that closely.

There was definitely no joy here with that on .151. I consistently 'missed', causing no end of ruckus with the wife.

Although, someone else in TWCKC says they now have .159 (I haven't checked) I have been getting better at it. Could be part of the new version?

I will see how much I annoy her tonight...

Originally posted by RandyWalters
Last night i borrowed my neighbor's Pioneer 3510HD and connected it alongside my SA8000HD to compare them. I was able to switch inputs back and forth on the TV and HDNet and Discover-HD on the 3510HD definitely looks sharper and more vibrant than it does on my new SA8000HD, just as i thought. I swapped component inputs and checked again and still the 3510HD looked better. The difference is quite noticeable. He saw the same thing.


As much as I love this DVR, there's no question it's softening the HD picture (and SD too). That's a shame. There's definite proof of it too.... ATSC HD standard bitrate of 19.2 mb/s takes up about 9 gb/hour of "space". Using the onboard diagnostic screen showing disk size, it's clear (after lots of testing) that an hour of HD recording on the SA8000 only takes about 6 gb/hour on the average, sometimes as little as 5. That means that at least a third of the data is being dropped out, resulting in a softer picture. It appears that the box is only recording HD at around 12 mb/s.

When I'm watching something "live" and want the best picture, I'll tune to an OTA or DISH Network HD channel (via E*6000 STB). It's significantly sharper and crisper than the picture produced on the SA8000. Strangely, the colors appear more saturated on the SA8000 though; OTA looks a little "washed out" by comparison, but that's offset by the sharper, crisper image.

That being said, the 8000 is so totally cool (a DVR really will change the way you watch TV) that I record nearly everything I watch and am willing to sacrifice PQ quality for the convenience and flexibility it provides.

As much as I love this DVR, there's no question it's softening the HD picture (and SD too). That's a shame. There's definite proof of it too.... ATSC HD standard bitrate of 19.2 mb/s takes up about 9 gb/hour of "space". Using the onboard diagnostic screen showing disk size, it's clear (after lots of testing) that an hour of HD recording on the SA8000 only takes about 6 gb/hour on the average, sometimes as little as 5. That means that at least a third of the data is being dropped out, resulting in a softer picture. It appears that the box is only recording HD at around 12 mb/s.

Got my 8000HD Tuesday and haven't come to such a dismal conclusion. Suspect after further tests I'll find, as I did with my Motorola DVR and another cable company, that real-time (live or taped) versus DVR recorded segments, look much the same. That bit-rate versus recorded bits isn't accurate IMO. While the ATSC OTA standard is ~19.39 Mbps and the video payload a maximum ~17 Mbps, encoded programs might easily be 12 Mbps. MPEG-repeat-frame flags can sharply cut bit rates. I put off ordering a 8000HD several months after reading about 'soft' HD images. But beginning to suspect that problem is due to differences with individual setups; otherwise there should be a lot more similar complaints. Can't even check SD with my system because of the way the 8000HD prevents running 480i (for S-video out) and HD at the same time--without excessive switching--on my RPTV. - John

Quote: "But beginning to suspect that problem is due to problems with individual setups. . ."
------------
How so? The only thing the Cable guy did at my place was to unplug the wires from the back of my SA3100HD and plug them back into the 8000HD. Nothing else was disturbed in the system. DVR's softer PQ was immediately noticeable. Other posters in this thread reported that softer picture quality was corrected by software updates at the head-end.

Fred

My 8000HD is actually my fourth TWC HD cable box, and on my setup (Sony VPH-1252Q front projector) the picture is definitely softer than my previous Pioneer box.

Originally posted by archiguy
As much as I love this DVR, there's no question it's softening the HD picture (and SD too). That's a shame. There's definite proof of it too.... ATSC HD standard bitrate of 19.2 mb/s takes up about 9 gb/hour of "space". Using the onboard diagnostic screen showing disk size, it's clear (after lots of testing) that an hour of HD recording on the SA8000 only takes about 6 gb/hour on the average, sometimes as little as 5. That means that at least a third of the data is being dropped out, resulting in a softer picture. It appears that the box is only recording HD at around 12 mb/s.I'd never thought of doing this experiment--thanks!

I notice that they've greatly improved the display of disk space in the diag screens between .151 and .159--this is the first I'd looked at it. I don't actually have any other use for it.

In two samples, I got very different results. (This isn't going to go very quickly, since I'm not willing to delete things without watching them, though I guess I could record stuff that I don't want to watch and delete them immediately ;)). Ghost Ship, recorded from HBO HD, came in at 6.8 GB for 95 minutes. That comes out to 9.77 Mbps--not very good. However, an episode of Smallville, recorded from HDNet today, came out at 7.6 GB for 60 minutes, making it 17.29 Mbps, about as good as you're going to practically get from broadcast TV, particularly on cable where all the ATSC padding chaff should be discarded (or never inserted on a cable/DBS only channel. That 19.39 Mbps is a maximum payload for a 6 MHz air channel modulated in 8 VSB. As I understand it, the broadcasters rarely push it to the limit).

The stuff that looks best to me still looks very, very good, which is why I don't think that this box is robbing me of PQ--I recorded a restoration of My Fair Lady on HDNet Movies that was so sharp and vivid it looked like it was about jump off the screen. I was about to delete it to make space and took a glance at it first; it took my breath away, so I took the time to watch it.

If your system is packing 3 channels per 6 MHz slot and stat-muxing, you could be getting reduced bit rates from some channels because of that. My system has only done that in one slot and only recently--they put Fox HD in with two other channels (PBS and NBC) for some reason, unnecessarily, since there's another slot with only a single channel in it (Showtime is all by its lonesome).

I'm going to continue to take this measurement for a while. I can't wait to see what kind of bit rate I'll get for CSI:CSI this evening.

Your results is matching the suspected lower bitrate used by HBO-HD and the known full bitrate used by HDnet!

Other posters in this thread reported that softer picture quality was corrected by software updates at the head-end.

Reached my tentative conclusion about setups (meaning everything in the chain) being at fault in some cases because I've seen a number of posts from those saying the 8000HD's HD output is fine on their systems. So don't think it's valid to make blanket statements about the overall design of the unit--for HD quality, at least. Many might not post about units that perform okay, while I'd expect to see posts from those with problems.

Told the Time Warner HD installer I'd set up my 8000HD myself, and when I made a similar direct cable swap images looked okay here. I've been making HD comparisons with another (2nd) cable company's signal and their converter, though, since I know my old 3100HD has image 'fog' that spoils contrast and fine details. From the 8000HD's astounding no-simultaneous-1080i/480i design (without hassles), though, looks like I'll have to keep---and pay extra for--my 3100HD just to have a decent, stretchable, S-video output via remote control. -- John

Originally posted by michaeltscott
That comes out to 9.77 Mbps--not very good. However, an episode of Smallville, recorded from HDNet today, came out at 7.6 GB for 60 minutes, making it 17.29 Mbps, about as good as you're going to practically get from broadcast TV, particularly on cable... I've read in other threads here at this site that the cable companies likely do *not* "touch" the signal, but pass them on as-is. If that's true, HBO is to blame for the low bitrate, not TW. Of course, is the box doing something to the signal to "degrade" it ?? Only way to test that would be to have results from various HD set-tops record the same program.

I also feel that it's highly unlikely that this device has the capability to do any sort of realtime bit-rate reduction on HD video at all, much less to be able to do it to two streams simultaneously. That'd be a seriously impressive trick for such an inexpensive piece of equipment.

There are a lot of factors here in the stored size of video. As I said before, 19.39 Mbps is the payload for 8 VSB, including the entire MPEG-2 TS, not just the program encapsulated by it. What's being processed by this box is a different transport stream, containing an arbitrary combination of programs as determined by your cable company. What's going to be stored by this DVR is only the bits from a stream for the program that you asked it to record.

A single MPEG-2 stream is not constantly at any one rate, so all we can calculate from these file sizes is a rough average rate. About 20% of a broadcast television program is ad space, and there are very few high-definition ads these days. I would guess that the ads, upconverted and pillar-boxed, are going to be significantly lower bit-rate data than the actual programs, and will lower the average bit-rate somewhat, making it difficult to estimate what the bit-rate of the actual program was.

So, let's say that the actual bit-rate of the ads is 5 Mbps--12 minutes worth of ads per hour = .44 GB. We have a program that took 5.3 GB on disk for 60 minutes, which looks like 12 Mbps. Subtract that .44 GB and it becomes 4.86 GB for 48 minutes = 13.82 Mbps--better; much better than that 9.77 Mbps (no ads) that HBO was using for Ghost Ship. If we lower our estimate of the average bit-rate of the ads, the bit-rate of the program gets better.

This'd also jibe with my high bit-rate measurement for HDNet, since, though it has commericials, they're all for HDNet programming, which is all in HD--all of the ads are HD, not bringing the average bitrate of the program down.

Haven't tried it yet, but see a few posts from those claiming that watching slightly time-delayed video looks better than real-time video (a PAUSE, PLAY sequence, I guess). Anyone care to tacke what's going on there? -- John

Okay--I've performed some more experiments (I'm taking some time off, so I had the opportunity ;)). I both sacrificed a couple of old movies that I'd recorded on a whim that had been on my drive for a while (The Rainmaker and The Crying Game) and recorded a couple of things I had no interest in just to delete and measure them (Sunrise Earth, American Family). Here are the resulting data points, including the two from my post above:
Smallville (HDNet)
7.6 GB / 60 mins = 17.29 Mbps Ghost Ship (HBO)
6.8 GB / 95 mins = 9.77 Mbps CSI:CSI (CBS)
5.3 GB / 60 mins = 12.06 Mbps (or 4.86/48 mins = 13.82 Mbps) Without A Trace (CBS)
5.1 GB / 60 mins = 11.60 Mbps (or 4.66/48 mins = 13.25 Mbps) Sunrise Earth (Discovery HD)
7.5 GB / 60 mins = 17.06 Mbps ER (NBC)
6.4 GB / 60 mins = 14.56 Mbps (or 5.96 GB/48 min = 16.95 Mbps) The Rainmaker (HBO)
8.6 GB / 135 mins = 8.69 Mbps The Crying Game (Showtime)
8.6 GB / 120 mins = 9.78 Mbps The Agency (HDNet)
7.8 GB / 60 mins = 17.75 Mbps American Family (PBS)
4.8 GB / 60 mins = 11.45 Mbps(In parenthesis, for the network programming, I included a calculation using my theoretical fudge factor from my post above, 12 minutes of ads at 5 Mbps taking up .44 GB/hour).

I found the average bit-rate for ER to be surprisingly high and the average for American Family to be surprisingly low. PBS on my system is 720p, which should come in somewhat lower than 1080i (half a 1080x1920 frame is 12.5% more pixels than a whole 720x1280 frame), so maybe it's not that low. As I stated above, NBC, PBS and Fox are now sharing a 6 MHz slot on my system, but I recorded American Family in the morning, when there was no HD programming on either of the other two channels.

Note that otherwise this runs about as I expected. For the most part, the channels whose programming everyone raves about the PQ of have pretty high bit-rates, according to these file sizes. The bit-rates for the movies on HBO and Showtime were depressing--I'm tempted to cancel those services. (If I wasn't addicted to some of their series, it'd be easier :)).

I'm convinced that the box stores what's on the cable and does not reduce the bit-rate. Whatever's softening your picture, I don't think that it's that.

Shame on Showtime and HBO.... Nice to see Discovery isn't skimping nor is NBC. CBS is so-so...

If your local PBS is anything like ours, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, they "multicast" (5) channels in their stream (we have (2) and they send four SD and one HD). That explains why *ours* has a relatively low bitrate.

Yes--our PBS does multicast one 720p channel and their normal SD channel.