I have 2) black 2910 that have worked perfectly. Both of them have July '04 manufacture dates.

Can anyone play VCD's on their 2910?

Cheers,

I guess not......
bump bump

I have a 2910 and NEC HT1100 and this is the first time I have set them up together.

When running throught the DVE test patterns I noticed that on the SMPTE Color Bar that Red and Blue overlap by a very noticable margin. The same with Cyan and Yellow (which of course makes a green stripe where they overlap). The whole color bar also looks quite 'soft'.

Originally I thought this was due to the DVI cable but I have since found that it is anytime I switch the player Video Out to Progressive. When it is set to interlaced the test pattern is very crisp and has almost no overlap of colors anywhere. The problems are also there at 1080i.

With the short amount of viewing time so far I feel that the Component/Interlaced output is better than any of the progressive outputs, including DVI.

Am I missing some adjustment somewhere? Is there anything in the HT1000/HT1100 that is able to help with this? Or is this not relevant to real world viewing?

I would be interested if someone with a HT1000/HT1100 and the Denon 2910 could look at one of these patterns running Progressive component and DVI 720P and see how theirs look.

If anyone is running the 2910 with the Panasonic th-42px25u I'd be interested in your impressions.

Thanks!

Originally posted by btiltman
I have a 2910 and NEC HT1100 and this is the first time I have set them up together.
I would be interested if someone with a HT1000/HT1100 and the Denon 2910 could look at one of these patterns running Progressive component and DVI 720P and see how theirs look.

If you do a search by my screen name, you will find some HT1000/2910 settings that work well for me.

Bytehoven

Re: SMTPE Color Bar Overlap

Thanks for that..... I did do that before setting up and playing around with it.

I guess what I am asking is whether that phenomenon with that test pattern is normal on a 2910 that someone is seeing a good pic on?

Thanks for your reply though!

Originally posted by btiltman
Bytehoven

Re: SMTPE Color Bar Overlap

Thanks for that..... I did do that before setting up and playing around with it.

I guess what I am asking is whether that phenomenon with that test pattern is normal on a 2910 that someone is seeing a good pic on?

Thanks for your reply though!

Let me have the Title and Chapter numbers for the pattern, and I will take a look.

My 2910 has been very clean, with none of the bleeding colors you mention. But I will check.

Hi bucky63,

I finally did get my 12M Monster DVI400 yesterday n it works like a Charm-----no noise, no sparkle, no fading color. So, I can kind of draw a conclusion that if one uses a quality DVI cable, length is not much a problem, that scare people off when some company declare 5M is the max.. The picture is very clean, bright, sharp n detail. However, I did try your setting n for some reason, it didn't work out, maybe the cable n screen is different. But I did leave the 'Enhanced Black' on my 2910, n it made the white color stands out better.

However, what position did you leave the AI of AE500 on ? Also, did you notice whenever you use DVI input on AE500, the height of the picture shrink by about 1-2 in. on a 90" screen. However, the height is normal when using Component n Aux input. Did the same happen to you n is there any fix for that ???

Thanks again for your advice.







Originally posted by bucky63
The blue filter I'm referning to is the filter used in check Color and Hue when using AVIA. Sorry for the confusion...

The DVI cable is a 30' RAM (not the Dual Link? version). My screen is a 80" Bright 1.4 Carada.

Projector settings are...

Natural Picture mode
Contrast and Brightness calibrated with AVIA
Sharpness set to 0
Color Temp set to 0
Low and High Gamma set to -1

2910 settings are...

DVI 720p output
Enhanced DVI black level
Set - Setup Level set to 0
Auto 1

What don't you like in the picture quality your getting with your AE500 and the 2910? :D :D :D

Can anyone play VCD's on their 2910?
I tried a couple of VCD's on mine, but it wouldn't play them. The icon "VCD" shows up on the player's display, but the the picture shows up garbled and keeps scrolling. In fact, the menu itself gets messed up, till I put in a DVD! I tried various modes (1080i, 480p) and also tried it thru' S-Video, but with no luck. BTW, these VCD's play fine on my old DVD player. Definitely seems a like a bug on the 2910.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Let me have the Title and Chapter numbers for the pattern, and I will take a look.

My 2910 has been very clean, with none of the bleeding colors you mention. But I will check.

The patterns are Title-12 Chapter-5 (and 6)

(I have only noticed bleeding on the patterns not on material.)

Thanks!

Originally posted by ac388
Hi bucky63,

However, what position did you leave the AI of AE500 on ? Also, did you notice whenever you use DVI input on AE500, the height of the picture shrink by about 1-2 in. on a 90" screen. However, the height is normal when using Component n Aux input. Did the same happen to you n is there any fix for that ???

Thanks again for your advice.


:D :D :D


ac388,

Glad to hear your new cable fixed your problem.

I'm using my AE500 in "Low Lamp mode" because it is right above my head and I do not want to hear the fan. Picture is still bright and the blacks are acceptable to me. The little I played with AI I thought the blacks were better so I would use it if not for the louder fan. From what I remember, AI1 is for darker movies and AI2 is for lighter movies if that helps at all.

Yes, I notice the picture moving around the screen too using DVI with different DVDs. I adjust the picture position in the 2910's Picture Adj - Set menu to re-center the movie. I'm not sure what is going on there.

Does anyone know if DVDs are mastered differently when it come to the picture position inside the 720 by 480 bitmap and because we are viewing the whole picture, we are seeing this picture movement in the over-scan area?

I'll have to use AVIA's over-scan and pixel cropping display patterns a little more to try and understand what is happening.


By the way, I could play a VCD on my 2910, at least through S-video. I have not tried displaying a VCD using the DVI output yet. I might have had a audio delay problem playing the VCD but I don't know for sure without more testing.

Originally posted by Cecchine
Just got my 2910 and up and running DVI-1080I into a Sony GWIII. Picture outstanding when DVI cable direct into TV. But when I put it Thu my Geffen DVI 2x1 switcher no picture. Anyone have a idea?

I don't belive the Geffen DVI 2x1 switcher switches 1080i, try 480p.
:(

Originally posted by salrmrcrey
Can anyone play VCD's on their 2910?

Cheers,

I have been able to play various VCDs as well as SVCDs without any problem on my 2910.

web

Hi bucky63,

Thanks again for your advice, however, I did find the combination of 'Low lamp mode' on projector n 'Enhanced Black' on 2910 will make the picture a bit too dark for me n the white color will not stand out. Just a coincident, my projector is also right above my head on a shelf, but the noise did not bother me at all.




Originally posted by bucky63
ac388,

Glad to hear your new cable fixed your problem.

I'm using my AE500 in "Low Lamp mode" because it is right above my head and I do not want to hear the fan. Picture is still bright and the blacks are acceptable to me. The little I played with AI I thought the blacks were better so I would use it if not for the louder fan. From what I remember, AI1 is for darker movies and AI2 is for lighter movies if that helps at all.

Yes, I notice the picture moving around the screen too using DVI with different DVDs. I adjust the picture position in the 2910's Picture Adj - Set menu to re-center the movie. I'm not sure what is going on there.

Does anyone know if DVDs are mastered differently when it come to the picture position inside the 720 by 480 bitmap and because we are viewing the whole picture, we are seeing this picture movement in the over-scan area?

I'll have to use AVIA's over-scan and pixel cropping display patterns a little more to try and understand what is happening.


By the way, I could play a VCD on my 2910, at least through S-video. I have not tried displaying a VCD using the DVI output yet. I might have had a audio delay problem playing the VCD but I don't know for sure without more testing.

Originally posted by Cecchine
Just got my 2910 and up and running DVI-1080I into a Sony GWIII. Picture outstanding when DVI cable direct into TV. But when I put it Thu my Geffen DVI 2x1 switcher no picture. Anyone have a idea?
Originally posted by Badabbing
I don't belive the Geffen DVI 2x1 switcher switches 1080i, try 480p.
:(

Well, according to their website (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1819) it can pass up to 1080p, so it would likely be something like cable length, or a bad cable.

Originally posted by Brett Miles
Now that I think I've gotten my 2910 set up to acceptable levels (connected to Mitsubishi 48413 via DVI @ 1080i), I attemted some viewing tests this morning. On the Matrix: Reloaded around the 11:30 mark (after Link says "He's doing his Superman thing.") the scene switches to some clouds. There is some very noticable blocking and general splochiness here. There was one white cloud toward the bottom middle of the frame that even looks striped for several frames. It's not as bad at 480p or on my old non-progressive Sony 530 but still somewhat splotchy. Now I know things like fog and clouds are hard for encoding anyway. Am I seeing "the bug" here or just a problem spot on the disc?

No one has any input on this? I also noticed a problem on Batman: The Animated Series vol. 1. Yesterday I watched the first episode ("Forgotten")on disc 2. It had a lot of pink boxes/splotching in the scene where Bruce Wayne first wakes up after being captured by the bad guys. Same thing when the big, fat boss is introduced in the shadowed areas of his white suit. Again, is this just bad compression, or the bug, or both?

Originally posted by krisjon
After updating with the region free firmware, my version is:

ESS 6720-4, Make day 831, DRV 030825, System 6768-2, DSP 6770

Sadly, after updating with this firmware, I still have banding/noise/macroblocking all over the place so I guess it's a hardware problem. Looks like this one is going back...
What is your original firmware version before making the update?

I have just purchased a Denon 2910. My initial impressions are not that positive. My set is a Toshiba 50HX81 that has been ISF calibrated. I have the HD Tivo and and a Sony NS700P DVD player and they both look fantastic on this set. I felt it was time to upgrade and based on the comments here I chose the Denon. I have both DVD players hooked to a Zektor HDS4.2 component switch using the same brand of component cables so I have been able to do an A-B comparison with both playing the same dvd. Terminator 3, since I have two copies and it has an excellent picture. The Denon looks terrible, very washed out and no blacks. I went into the picture adjustments and did an initial tweaking. The picture is mildly better but the blacks are still bad. Tomorrow I will use the Avia disc and see if that helps. I can't very well play with the Toshiba's settings as it has already been calibrated. I think it is ridiculous that this player would be so out of whack from the factory. Is this typical of the 2910? Thank you.


James

Originally posted by avsnovis
I tried a couple of VCD's on mine, but it wouldn't play them. The icon "VCD" shows up on the player's display, but the the picture shows up garbled and keeps scrolling. In fact, the menu itself gets messed up, till I put in a DVD! I tried various modes (1080i, 480p) and also tried it thru' S-Video, but with no luck. BTW, these VCD's play fine on my old DVD player. Definitely seems a like a bug on the 2910.

When that happens try stopping the VCD, hit the NTSC/PAL button on the remote, play and see if that fixes your problem. ..

I would also like to add that I am currently listening to "STAIND" 14 Shades of Grey DVD-A on my 2910 and enjoying a frosty Sam Adams (Its 3:00 P.M. here) with a a big smile on my face because I'm on vacation for a month and still getting paid, gotta love being in the military on occasion :):):)
The 5.1 mix isn't that hot, at least not as good as they're Unplugged MTV session, but it sounds damn good !!!!

Follow up from last week post, will not play into Geffen 2x1 DVI switcher.

I got a Zektor 5x1 DVI Switcher and the Denon works. In fact in looks better than direct into TV. I don't know why. I also went in and did some tweaks.

Did you do "some tweaks" with the 2910? If so, would you be willing to share them?

I am considering a DVI switcher because both the 2910 and my Motorola 6200 STB (Comcast) appear to provide a better PQ via DVI and my Mitsubishi 65813 only has one DVI connection.

Keep us posted on your experience/impressions with the Zektor.

web

Yes, I would also be interested in any tweaks that people have found useful for the 2910's. I have it running into a hlp 6163 via HDMI and basically have not changed any settings from OTB (but do have the black enhancement turned off). It looks quite good to me (a novice), but I'm always open to improvement.

The DVD-2910S (silver) is also available as the DVD-955S from Denon's Specialty Line. It is widely available on the internet, in most cases for much less then the DVD-2910S, though some dealers charge the same price

Robert Whitehead: Have you gotten a 2910, or stayed with the 1910? What are your thoughts on the two at present?

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
The DVD-2910S (silver) is also available as the DVD-955S from Denon's Specialty Line. It is widely available on the internet, in most cases for much less then the DVD-2910S, though some dealers charge the same price

Why would they have the same player with two different model numbers, there has to be something different between the two.

Originally posted by jwv651
Why would they have the same player with two different model numbers, there has to be something different between the two.

The Denon software update for the 2910, also mentions it being for the 955S.

Well just got my replacement 2910s unit early this week, tested it all week with dvd's and it performed beatifully, no more freezing and locking up. The pq is amazing with clarity and richness and the dymamic output (DD DTS) is also excellent. Tried regular audio cd's and the sound was crystal clear, haven't hooked up sacd because I don't have any.
If this player continues to perform without a hitch it will be a long time before I replace it, (until hd-dvd players become mainstream).

The Zektor 5x1 has been flawless. I am running D*, Voom, and the 2910.

The tweaks were made in M1. Changes I made were my personal preference for my Sony GWIII. They may not be the same for your Tv and your preference.

I still have/like the 1910. I assume the lack of macroblocking is because the 720p signal is fed directly to my IF7200, bypassing the internal scaler. I finally saw a green tint on a DVD of an old Eddie Izzard concert. I believe it was from the DVD. In any case, using the color control on the 1910 eliminated it. I was considering getting a 955 to compare, but I don't have much faith in the return policies of the dealers selling it at very low prices. Also, the 2910 seems to have its own problems as set out in this thread. Was thinking of trying the new Panny S97, but haven't read any good comparisons between it and the 1910 or 2910.

Well, I hate to tell everyone this, but-I've been thru 1) Denon 1910, 2) 2910, 3) 2900, 4) 2910 (cause the 2900 wouldn't play less than perfect DVD's), and 5) Pioneer Elite 59Avi. And, I kept the Pioneer.

The PQ was significantly better as well as the black levels. On my GWII, the Avia calibration for brightness for all Denon's were 20 clicks to the right (increasing the level) vs. the Pioneer's 8 clicks. This made HDTV quite a bit better.

Possibly the difference here is the lack of contrast-however, I did install the color filter to help with this...

I have an HT1000 projector (1024x768), and currently use a HTPC. I'm very happy with the image I'm getting, but I'm considering replacing the PC with DVD player for simplicity's sake. I've been eyeing the 2910, and I have 2 main questions/concerns:

1. Will the image I can expect to get from the 2910 be equal to (or better) than I am getting from my HTPC. Has anyone made the same transition, and can comment?

2. Ideally, I'd like to see a 768p output over HDMI, to bypass the need to scale in the projector. Does anyone know if Denon has any plans to provide this (e.g., a firmware upgrade?). Or am I worrying too much... perhaps a digital 720p or 1080i going to the HT1000 is just fine?

Thanks for any insights!
Paul

I am not sure if anyone has run into a similar issue with the 2910. I have played over a dozen different dvds in this player and at random times during playback, a chapter 01/XX indicator comes up on the video screen and the disk starts playing again from the beginning.

Crutchfield is sending a replacement (2 weeks out) but I wanted to see if anyone has had a similar issue.

Jack

Originally posted by kjhunt64
I am not sure if anyone has run into a similar issue with the 2910. I have played over a dozen different dvds in this player and at random times during playback, a chapter 01/XX indicator comes up on the video screen and the disk starts playing again from the beginning.

Crutchfield is sending a replacement (2 weeks out) but I wanted to see if anyone has had a similar issue.

Jack


Nope. I've got about 50-75 hrs on mine and its been flawless. Your replacement will likely be fine.

Originally posted by Kevin Johnson
Nope. I've got about 50-75 hrs on mine and its been flawless. Your replacement will likely be fine.

Kevin

I am debating between the 2910 and the 3910. I will be using the AVR 3805 Denon Receiver and the 5674 Samsung.

I here all this stuff from the experts that the 3910 does a better job decoding DVD-A and SACDs and has Denon link etc.

What was the deciding factor for you? Mainly price vs what you get? And did you compare the 2910 to other brands whose similar units are claimed to have similar abilities and features?

thanks

M

Does anyone run the Denon 2910 over DVI with the Infocus ScreenPlay 7200? I've tried to calibrate the 2910 to my display, but I'm wondering if anyone has had it done professionally. With DVI, the basic color menus on the Infocus are not available so I either have to use the 2910 adjustments, or the seperate red, green and blue adjustments on the Infocus. Any help in configuring the best color would be appreciated. Thanks!

I wonder if anyone has looked at the 2910 in a head-to-head comparison with the Panasonic s97 that has just come out. The reviews I seen seem to like the s97 better than the 1910 (which is about the same price), but I wonder if it comes up to the 2910?

Originally posted by mismatched
Kevin

I am debating between the 2910 and the 3910. I will be using the AVR 3805 Denon Receiver and the 5674 Samsung.

I here all this stuff from the experts that the 3910 does a better job decoding DVD-A and SACDs and has Denon link etc.

What was the deciding factor for you? Mainly price vs what you get? And did you compare the 2910 to other brands whose similar units are claimed to have similar abilities and features?

thanks

M
I've owned most of the cheaper upscaling players. All had issues. the 2910 is the first real keeper for me.


I went with the 2910 since based on what people are observing it appears to be the equal to the 3910 for video but not audio. I have a Pioneer 47ai which I use excluseily for CD playback which I love. So, the 3910 audio gains were not a factor. If I wanted both video quality and optimized CD/SACD/DVD-A playback, I would pesonaly suggest the Pioneer DV-59AVi or the 3910.

Originally posted by Kevin Johnson
I've owned most of the cheaper upscaling players. All had issues. the 2910 is the first real keeper for me.


I went with the 2910 since based on what people are observing it appears to be the equal to the 3910 for video but not audio. I have a Pioneer 47ai which I use excluseily for CD playback which I love. So, the 3910 audio gains were not a factor. If I wanted both video quality and optimized CD/SACD/DVD-A playback, I would pesonaly suggest the Pioneer DV-59AVi or the 3910.

Kevin

You have reinforced what I had been deducing. I have a Yamaha to dedicate to CDs. If I anticipated playing with SACD and DVD-a formats I would go with the 3910 but I d rather save the bucks for other stuff. You can use 6 channel analog cables to the receiver which will allow the 2910 to play SACD and DVD-a formats if you must. save $$ for the HD DVDs that will be out sometime this millenium! That's what I say.

Another ? for ya if I may: Out of your 2910 are you using DVI or HDMI to your AV Receiver??

thanks

Mike

I maybe asking a stupid question here. When I select 1080i on my 2910 into my AE500, will the interlacer inside my projector turns the signal into 1080P. If not, then why some people prefer to feed a 480i signal into a projector n let it do the interlacing for a 480P picture.

Originally posted by mismatched
Kevin

You have reinforced what I had been deducing. I have a Yamaha to dedicate to CDs. If I anticipated playing with SACD and DVD-a formats I would go with the 3910 but I d rather save the bucks for other stuff. You can use 6 channel analog cables to the receiver which will allow the 2910 to play SACD and DVD-a formats if you must. save $$ for the HD DVDs that will be out sometime this millenium! That's what I say.

Another ? for ya if I may: Out of your 2910 are you using DVI or HDMI to your AV Receiver??

thanks

Mike

DVI to a Gefen 4X1 DVI switch to a BenQ 8700 PJ. Component to an Aragon Stage One prepro to a Panasonic Plasma. One nice feature of the 2910/3910 is that it allows toggling between DVI/HDMI/Component via the remote. Most other players I've owned (including the 1910) do not.

Hi:

I just got he 2910, and am still getting used to it. I do have one question I still have not gotten answered from fiddling with the machine, so I thought i would ask...

I have a Sony GWIII attached via DVI. I have it normally set up at 720, which is great for wide-screen DVDs and such. But the occasional non-animorphic, or native 4:3 disks show stretched. I have messed with the menus, like Stretch, but that 4:3's everything...

Is there a setting (or series of settings) so that it will out wide as wide, and 4:3 as 4:3? Or do I just do what I have been doing- change the output to 480 for all 4:3 material?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Kevin Johnson
DVI to a Gefen 4X1 DVI switch to a BenQ 8700 PJ. Component to an Aragon Stage One prepro to a Panasonic Plasma. One nice feature of the 2910/3910 is that it allows toggling between DVI/HDMI/Component via the remote. Most other players I've owned (including the 1910) do not.

Hmmm so you are running your video signals through your AV receiver. Is this a "necessity" for PQ or for video switching purposes?? I have my components, AV receiver Denon 3805, Denon 2910 and the 5674 and have a Comcast Cable box and Tivo (may switch to the combo box PVR if the model Comcast settles on is good). And I am trying to order the necessary cable connections and am baffled by all the possibilities. this is why I am asking these dumb ?s.

Hello All,
First time post'er, long time lurk'er
I recently purchased a Mits 62725 and the Denon 2910 (with much guidance from all of you) and I am extremely happy with the purchases. But, I have a problem which I have been dealing with for a little over a week and I cannot seem to figure out what is causing this. I have read all over and cannot find a similar situation.
So here it is, I have my 2910 hooked up to my 62725 via hdmi to hdmi. I continue to hear a "popping" or "crackling" noise through the tv speakers. This happens even when there is no dvd playing, just have the input selected on the TV. I have used the hdmi cable from Ram and the monster hdmi, and still get the same static. Are any of you familiar with what I experiencing? Do I have a setting wrong? Should I use other connections such as the DVI out on the 2910 or the component outs? I am relatively new to HT and think maybe I am overlooking something simple. Im not sure. Any light you could continue to shed on my situation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

Originally posted by carfac:
Is there a setting (or series of settings) so that it will out wide as wide, and 4:3 as 4:3?

Not that I have found.

Can you do a change in picture size with the Sony? I have my 2910 connected via HDMI to my Samsung HLP-5063W. When I need to view 4:3 material, I change the picture size on the TV with the remote to 4:3. It's not the perfect solution, but it's simple enough.

Carfac:

Have you tried turning the Squeeze mode on for 4:3 material?

Originally posted by mismatched
Hmmm so you are running your video signals through your AV receiver. Is this a "necessity" for PQ or for video switching purposes?? I have my components, AV receiver Denon 3805, Denon 2910 and the 5674 and have a Comcast Cable box and Tivo (may switch to the combo box PVR if the model Comcast settles on is good). And I am trying to order the necessary cable connections and am baffled by all the possibilities. this is why I am asking these dumb ?s.

Just to be clear, I'm running the 2910 Component cables thru my prepro and then to a plasma. I'm also running the 2910 DVI cable thru a switcher and then to a front projector. That way I can use a single DVD player for both displays. Its all for convenience and there is no degradation to the video quality (at least to my eyes).

My configuration is a probably a little more complicated then most. 'Complicated' is status quo for me (i.e. 3 subs, external crossovers, etc.). Thank god for my Pronto.

Originally posted by Kevin Johnson
Just to be clear, I'm running the 2910 Component cables thru my prepro and then to a plasma. I'm also running the 2910 DVI cable thru a switcher and then to a front projector. That way I can use a single DVD player for both displays. Its all for convenience and there is no degradation to the video quality (at least to my eyes).

My configuration is a probably a little more complicated then most. 'Complicated' is status quo for me (i.e. 3 subs, external crossovers, etc.). Thank god for my Pronto.

complicated is fine if you know what you are doing and you obviously are light yrs ahead of me. do you also run a mult-disk CD player in your system? I thinnk I would like the convienence but dont want to spend gazillions, any suggestions on brands and models?? would want it to play all the standard CD formats but not sure that SACDs are a necessary consideration.

thanks

M

I seem to be getting a bit of 'green push' on my 2910 (going to an hlp via HDMI). Where is the best place to try to correct for this in the DVD player? Or should I do it on the TV (since it remembers settings for different inputs)?

Millerwill,

There's a firmware update that supposedly addresses this issue. Contact Denon and they'll send you the update CD for free.

Originally posted by millerwill
I seem to be getting a bit of 'green push' on my 2910 (going to an hlp via HDMI). Where is the best place to try to correct for this in the DVD player? Or should I do it on the TV (since it remembers settings for different inputs)?

I found the only way to real knockdown the push, was with the RGB brightness & contrast controls on my DLP projector. Tint/hue control might also work some, but at the risk of decoder errors in other colors.

I found both the green brightness and contrast were (-10) as compared to their red and blue siblings.

I'm amazed that nobody wants to comment on my comparison between the Pioneer 59AVI and the 2910 (and 1910 and 2900). I'm not implying the 2910 is the wrong choice, only that-for me-the Pioneer was significantly better.:confused:

Can you do a change in picture size with the Sony? I have my 2910 connected via HDMI to my Samsung HLP-5063W. When I need to view 4:3 material, I change the picture size on the TV with the remote to 4:3. It's not the perfect solution, but it's simple enough. [/B]

That might work, I will try...

>>> Have you tried turning the Squeeze mode on for 4:3 material?

Good for 4:3, but then it also squeezes 16:9...

My old player would adjust this on the fly... but then it was 480p... I guess if this is what I have to do to get 720p, it's not that bad...

Can someone list the email address at denon for getting the update cd for the 2910? thanks

Originally posted by dvdguru
Can someone list the email address at denon for getting the update cd for the 2910? thanks

contactservice@denonnj.com

CarlosC, Bytehoven: Thanks for the info re the Denon firmware up-date. I will definitely give it a try.

Originally posted by mismatched
complicated is fine if you know what you are doing and you obviously are light yrs ahead of me. do you also run a mult-disk CD player in your system? I thinnk I would like the convienence but dont want to spend gazillions, any suggestions on brands and models?? would want it to play all the standard CD formats but not sure that SACDs are a necessary consideration.

thanks

M

No mutli-disc player. I don't like them. I feel that getting of my *ss at least once an hour the change a disc is probably the min excersize that I need.

I'm new to the forum, and am not sure how to post this question, but I think this is the right place.

I've had my DVD-2910 for about a month, and have noticed that the whole unit shakes/vibrates when the DVD plays. Almost as if something is out of balance. Happens almost all the time.

I'm thinking I need to exchange it for a new unit, and am still within the return/exchange window with ABT Electronics.

Anyone seen this before?

Other than that, I love it. Have got it hooked up to a BenQ PE8700 via DVI, an AVR-2805 with Rocket ELT speakers, and a Carada Brilliant White screen.

Thanks for your help.

Originally posted by rjustice4
I'm new to the forum, and am not sure how to post this question, but I think this is the right place.

I've had my DVD-2910 for about a month, and have noticed that the whole unit shakes/vibrates when the DVD plays. Almost as if something is out of balance. Happens almost all the time.

I'm thinking I need to exchange it for a new unit, and am still within the return/exchange window with ABT Electronics.

Anyone seen this before?

Other than that, I love it. Have got it hooked up to a BenQ PE8700 via DVI, an AVR-2805 with Rocket ELT speakers, and a Carada Brilliant White screen.

Thanks for your help.

If this happens with multiple DVDs your unit must have a problem. take it back ASAP!

Thanks for your input.

Yes, it happens across different DVDs. I've also tried reinserting the same DVD several times, and stopping/starting the rotation. No apparent pattern, just a lot of vibration. Image quality does not appear to suffer, but I think I've noticed amplification of the vibration sound.

I've had my 2910 for about 10 days now (purchased from Crutchfield) and for the most part, I love it. However, one problem has emerged--the player is connected to my Sony HD set with a HDMI cable purchased from Blue Jeans Cable, and every so often, the HDMI signal will start cutting in and out--the TV goes bounces back and forth between displaying the picture and a pitch black screen, and the HDMI/720P lights on the front panel blink on and off in perfect synchronization with the cut-outs. The first time this happened, turning the power off for 15-20 minutes made it stop. It just started up again, and turning the power off for 5 minutes or so didn't fix matters. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Any ideas what might be causing it? Should I look into returning the player to Crutchfield? Thanks in advance for any help and advice you guys can provide.

I did have similar problem when using those cheap DVI computer cable. But it went away when I got myself the monster DVI400. Did you try other HDMI cable besides the one you had now ?

I was under the impression that Blue Jeans Cable products were supposed to be fairly high quality. With a three-foot Monster HDMI going for $100 vs. $30 for the BJ cable, buying from BJ seemed like a no-brainer--especially since so many people here seem to think that Monster are one of those companies where, like Bose, one is really laying out the big bucks because of the name and not the product. Is the situation different where HDMI cable is concerned?

It is the cable I had similar problems with Ram cable. See this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471184

I'd thought the short length of the cable (3 feet) would keep something like what's described in the other thread from being a problem, but perhaps not. Maybe I should look into buying a Monster and try and unload the BJ cable on eBay...

It's probably not the cable--and certainly so for that short a distance--but simply a loose fitting HDMI plug. (Why couldn't they have designed these like DVI, with a screw to secure the connection?) I would perhaps try another cable BJ or Pacificcable.

I should have ask or read closer to find the length of the cable. You are correct most everyone that has had problems it has been a longer DVI cable usually 10m or longer. There has been a few that has had problems even with the shorter cable. Like what millerwill posted. Do I think Monster is way over priced YES but me personally I have never had any problems with any of there cables. So I am always leery to use a different cable. Its a love hate relationship.

I would like to hear more about people's experience with Blue Jeans cables especially the DVI, component video and coaxial digital audio cables. And/or recommendations of other cable suppliers that don't go over the top with prices. I am not looking for cheap but reasonable prices. Monster Cables are just overpriced period as far as I can tell

M

If you are not needing a long cable. I have had good luck with Ram. I did order a 23ft. DVI cable and I had problems but also have 10ft. and it works great.
(So length does matter Heee......Heee......)

I only need a 6ft cable so maybe I am safe with non Monster cables??

I am using Pacificcables without any problems (and presume BJ are just as good); have a HDMI-HDMI, DVI-DVI, and a HDMI-DVI, each of which cost $30 to $40, don't remember exactly. Connections are from a Moto 6200 stb and a Deneon DVD 2910 to a HLP6163. (The DVD is connected HDMI-HDMI, and the stb DVI-DVI; for completeness, I run a digital optical cable from the DVD and from to stb to an AV receiver.)

PS The cables are only 1 meter (3 ft) since the components are in a stand just below the TV.

Originally posted by millerwill
I am using Pacificcables without any problems (and presume BJ are just as good); have a HDMI-HDMI, DVI-DVI, and a HDMI-DVI, each of which cost $30 to $40, don't remember exactly. Connections are from a Moto 6200 stb and a Deneon DVD 2910 to a HLP6163. (The DVD is connected HDMI-HDMI, and the stb DVI-DVI; for completeness, I run a digital optical cable from the DVD and from to stb to an AV receiver.)

Millerwill

I don't know all the acronyms... Is the moto 6200 stb a Cable box?? so I plan to use a Comcast HD receiver/PVR box with my HLP5674. Also included will be a AVR3805 receiver and 2910 DVD. I dont think that the comcast box will have a DVI connection. So should I run DVI to my HDTV and use component video connections from my comcast box to the 3805 and likewise to the TV. And for completness can I use digital coax audio cables instead of the optical ones? As you can see I am a bit clueless here!

thanks

M

Yes, COMCAST uses Motorola cable boxes, and I have the 6200, that will presumably be replaced by a 6412 (that records) in a month or so. The 6200 (and even the earlier 5100) do have DVI connections that work. So I have a DVI-DVI connection from it to my tv (samsung hlp6163). And as said, I connect the digital audio of the 6200 to the AV receiver.

Originally posted by millerwill
Yes, COMCAST uses Motorola cable boxes, and I have the 6200, that will presumably be replaced by a 6412 (that records) in a month or so. The 6200 (and even the earlier 5100) do have DVI connections that work. So I have a DVI-DVI connection from it to my tv (samsung hlp6163). And as said, I connect the digital audio of the 6200 to the AV receiver.

another naive ?: so you are always using your AV receiver for audio when watching TV? I was planning on a configuration that would allow me to when wanted only use the TVs speakers and not have to fuss with the receiver for regular TV broadcasts.. My wife hates having to turn on too many components!!

Am I missing something here??

M

Originally posted by mismatched
I was planning on a configuration that would allow me to when wanted only use the TVs speakers and not have to fuss with the receiver for regular TV broadcasts..

Just hook up the analog audio output of the cable box to your TV, and the digital output to your receiver. You'll be able to listen to HD programs that have Dolby 5.1 digital in all their splendor, and your wife will be able to watch anything she wants just by turning on the TV (and cable box...). Result: marital peace and harmony.

Works for us!

Originally posted by Kenlex
Just hook up the analog audio output of the cable box to your TV, and the digital output to your receiver. You'll be able to listen to HD programs that have Dolby 5.1 digital in all their splendor, and your wife will be able to watch anything she wants just by turning on the TV (and cable box...). Result: marital peace and harmony.

Works for us!

Kenlex

Thanks

M

Originally posted by millerwill
The DVD is connected HDMI-HDMI, and the stb DVI-DVI; for completeness, I run a digital optical cable from the DVD and from to stb to an AV receiver.)

so the HDMI is HDCP compliant???

Originally posted by mismatched
so the HDMI is HDCP compliant???

Yes.

Rather than to think if it is a cable problem or not, go out n get a Monster or Audioquest cable,with a return policy, n try it out. As I keep telling people here(I ain't no expert in Electronics), a lot of digital video (especially DVI ) cables out there were meant for computer use, for a 17 or 18" monitor. So, you won't notice those sparklies or degrade so easily, until you blow it up to a 80 to 100" screen for projector. Maybe Monster or Audioquest do not make their own DVI or HDMI cables, but at least they are made for HT purpose.










Originally posted by clrv
I should have ask or read closer to find the length of the cable. You are correct most everyone that has had problems it has been a longer DVI cable usually 10m or longer. There has been a few that has had problems even with the shorter cable. Like what millerwill posted. Do I think Monster is way over priced YES but me personally I have never had any problems with any of there cables. So I am always leery to use a different cable. Its a love hate relationship.

Originally posted by millerwill
I am using Pacificcables without any problems (and presume BJ are just as good); have a HDMI-HDMI, DVI-DVI, and a HDMI-DVI, each of which cost $30 to $40, don't remember exactly. Connections are from a Moto 6200 stb and a Deneon DVD 2910 to a HLP6163. (The DVD is connected HDMI-HDMI, and the stb DVI-DVI; for completeness, I run a digital optical cable from the DVD and from to stb to an AV receiver.)

Do you have to assembl yourself cables purchased from Pacific Cables? I got that impression visiting their site, at least when I priced out the digital audio coax cables...

thanks

M

I have been using a 6 feet DVI cable that came with my Dell LCD monitor to connect my 2910 to my Infocus 4805 projector. It is very well constructed, nice and thick (good sign of shielding), with ferrite on each end of cable. The picture quality from my 2910 is stunning using the Dell DVI cable / DVI connection - the sharpness is impeccable and picture is very very clean and artifact-free. I don't believe in spending awfully load of money on cable as long as they have the basic requirement: 1) Must be Double or Triple Shielded and 2) The inclusion of ferrite help cut down radio frequency interference even further.

Rob

I agree with you but for long cables as far as I have seen you basically have to.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mismatched
[B]Do you have to assembl yourself cables purchased from Pacific Cables? I got that impression visiting their site, at least when I priced out the digital audio coax cables...

Pacific Cables comes fully assembled, ready to plug in.

Do you ever wonder why those hiend DVI/HDMI cable do not have any ferrite clamp on them , n only on those cheap computer cables ??? Even the so call hiend cable, it only costs me less than $180 for a 12M Monster DVI400.


Originally posted by roblin
I have been using a 6 feet DVI cable that came with my Dell LCD monitor to connect my 2910 to my Infocus 4805 projector. It is very well constructed, nice and thick (good sign of shielding), with ferrite on each end of cable. The picture quality from my 2910 is stunning using the Dell DVI cable / DVI connection - the sharpness is impeccable and picture is very very clean and artifact-free. I don't believe in spending awfully load of money on cable as long as they have the basic requirement: 1) Must be Double or Triple Shielded and 2) The inclusion of ferrite help cut down radio frequency interference even further.

Rob

Originally posted by daleebob
I'm amazed that nobody wants to comment on my comparison between the Pioneer 59AVI and the 2910 (and 1910 and 2900). I'm not implying the 2910 is the wrong choice, only that-for me-the Pioneer was significantly better.:confused:

Well I will.....
There are alot of issues that come into play when calibrating a display to a new input device, and thus if the 59AVI provided a better out of the box PQ over the Denon when connected to your specific display....well then that's great.
As for me the 2910 and my display both required a little tweaking and calibrating. After such, I now enjoy a beautiful picture, outstanding audio and am overall 100% satisfied that I made this purchase. And lastly of course, I am a 2910 owner and that is why I'm posting in this thread. You might want to start a comparison thread if you'd like more responses, or maybe in the 59AVI owners thread since you happen to own that device? :)

HAPPY HOLIDAYS !!!! BTW, I miss Washington state, from the Bremerton/Port Orchard area...Now stationed in Italy, be home next year though. They done with the Tacoma Narrows second bridge yet ???

The lack of ferrite cores is probably because DVI/HDMI are operating at too high of a bandwidth. If you had some cores lying around you could try clamping them on to your DVI cable and see if the signal drops out.

- Kirk.

Originally posted by ac388
Do you ever wonder why those hiend DVI/HDMI cable do not have any ferrite clamp on them , n only on those cheap computer cables ??? Even the so call hiend cable, it only costs me less than $180 for a 12M Monster DVI400.

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
Well I will.....
There are alot of issues that come into play when calibrating a display to a new input device, and thus if the 59AVI provided a better out of the box PQ over the Denon when connected to your specific display....well then that's great.
As for me the 2910 and my display both required a little tweaking and calibrating. After such, I now enjoy a beautiful picture, outstanding audio and am overall 100% satisfied that I made this purchase. And lastly of course, I am a 2910 owner and that is why I'm posting in this thread. You might want to start a comparison thread if you'd like more responses, or maybe in the 59AVI owners thread since you happen to own that device? :)

HAPPY HOLIDAYS !!!! BTW, I miss Washington state, from the Bremerton/Port Orchard area...Now stationed in Italy, be home next year though. They done with the Tacoma Narrows second bridge yet ???

Happy Thanksgiving to you!

Yeah, I thought maybe I should go to another thread with my results....

The bridge won't be done until Spring '07. Looks like you'll be stuck in traffic till then (if you're going to commute to Ft. Lewis or McChord). Check this out: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr16narrowsbridge/

Dale

I was thinking of buying an interim dvd/universal player (interim meaning until a real high definition HT format is introduced) and 2910 seems to fit the bill. The most notable feature, in my opinion, is the hdmi/dvi outputs. Upscaling and sending the signal via component cables makes no sense to me what-so-ever.
As I understand: DVD is decoded at MPEG decoder --> Deinterlacing --> Upscaling --> DA conversion (to analog via component cables) --> DA conversion within TV --> De-interlacing (again) --> and finally, scaling to screen. Am I mistaken? Doesn't all of this processing affect the final PQ? Sure, it's 780p/1080i resolution- but at what cost?
For this line of reason, I intend to use the dvi out, connected to my Samsung widescreen HDTV (of the CRT variety) SO. This is my main question(s) to you "tecnifiles"- Will the digital signal supplied via dvi/hdmi be heavily affected by the scaling process within my set? Does the DVD player really work like a transport? Does the CRT bit make any difference?
I have asked far and wide and have gotten a range of answers, many of which were rather conflicting. Either way, I will be buying an 'interim' upscaling player with dvi out, possibly the 2910. By the way... Can any owners out there tell me where the 2910 is made. I've had trouble getting an answer to that as well. Thanks in advance to any answers!!!

The 2910 does not upscale over component, only HDMI/DVI. So, using an HDMI in on your Samsung the path is as follows:
DVD>MPEG>FLI2310[deinterlacing & scaling]>Digital signal HDMI/DVI

In your CRT TV: Digital Signal from Denon>D/A convertor> display.

Because of the D/A conversion required in a CRT set, many believe that the advantages of the upscaled Digital HDMI/DVI outut is lost, and you might as well get a good progressive player and save money.

Well, I unplugged and re-plugged my HDMI cable and moved the player to a different outlet (from the one on the back of my Denon 3805 receiver to one on my zip strip) on the off chance that the way the player was being turned on and off might have been affecting the "HDMI handshake". No luck--My player's HDMI output is still cutting in and out, and the lights on the front panel are still blinking away. I'm torn on whether or not I should drop $100 on a Monster cable before contacting Crutchfield and/or Denon about a replacement or repair of the player. Do any of you guys know what Circuit City's policies on returns of things like cables is? Could I buy one there and get a refund if it doesn't fix the problem? How about J&R? (None of the NYC Best Buys have Monster HDMI cables in stock at the moment).

I don't know about Circuit City's but if you have a Best Buy they have a 30 day return policy. No questions asked

Since the 2910 only upconverts via HDMI or DVI, does one use coax or optical into an AVR to get surround? I have A JVC D -ila, A Denon 2105, and want to purchase the 2910 (local store having a sale tomorrow). Do I hook the 2910 into my JVC via HDMI (or DVI-HDMI) and the run an optical cable into the AVR, or does using the HDMI or DVI out on the DVD player prevent using optical (or coax) ? Thanks

BenF12400: You connect the 2910 to your tv via HDMI/DVI--this is only for video--and you connect the 2910 to your AVR via a digital audio cable (optical or coax).

BenF12400:

I have my 2910 connected via HDMI to a Sam 5063W, with audio via optical to my receiver (Yamaha HTR-5450). I use this for DVDs and it works perfectly, giving surround with no sync problems (I have the internal speakers on the TV turned off).

I also have the 6 analogs out to the receiver for SACD/DVD-As, and the regular 2-channel analog out for music CDs (to be honest, though, there is very little difference to my ear in using the Denon's DACs this way than using the optical and the Yamaha's DACs).

Bruce73 and Millerwill - thanks for the info - I already have a DVI to HDMI cable so I'll use that for the 2910 for now, since sound can go through the AVR via optical

I ran out and got a Monster HDMI cable at Circuit City last night, and alas it didn't solve the problem with my 2910. I contacted Crutchfield tech support this morning, and they're gonna send a replacement player the second they get more in--they're presently on backorder through 11/30. Until then, looks like I'll have to use the component outs and sit tight...

andrewjnyc:

I had a first time occurrence yesterday where I couldn't get the TV to recognize the Denon. After making sure the connections were secure, I powered the Denon off/on which didn't help. Powering the TV off /on did the trick, so I'm guessing something to do with the "handshake" was involved.

I don't know what I did exactly that was different, but usually the TV is on first before turning on the Denon. Yesterday I turned them on simultaneously which might have screwed up the process, I dunno. Anyway, don't know if this helps in your situation but thought I'd mention it.

Bruce

Bruce--

I was intrigued by your suggestion...but after turning the HDMI signal off and resetting the player to factory defaults with the TV off, I powered it back up (with the TV still off) and turned on HDMI...and got the same blinking indicators on the front panel as before. The blinking indicators are also what I get when I turn the player on without an HDMI cable plugged in. I'd say that means the player is unable to tell when an HDMI cable is in place, except the flickering picture argues against that interpretation.

Originally posted by daleebob
Happy Thanksgiving to you!

Yeah, I thought maybe I should go to another thread with my results....

The bridge won't be done until Spring '07. Looks like you'll be stuck in traffic till then (if you're going to commute to Ft. Lewis or McChord). Check this out: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr16narrowsbridge/

Dale

Same to you and your family !,
2007 !!!!:confused: Wow I guess they have taken the Italian work ethic approach on this one :) they are still working on the main structure of a 2 story building around the size of an average Bestbuy down the street from me. They started on that one, ohhh, 20 months ago :) :)
I can live with the traffic, as long as I have my quad shot carmel mochas !!!!!! God I miss good coffee....:(

Andrew,

I get the blinking lights when the TV is off or set to another input. When I select HDMI for the TV and a connection is made (the "handshake," I suppose...), the blinking stops.

I don't recall if you mentioned what type of TV you have. Is it HDCP compliant (if that applies to this, I'm guessing now...;) )?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jtremble
I'm sorry to keep popping in here with questions, but at this point I am extremely frustrated and would appreciate any help. I've had my AE-700 and DVD-S97 a few days now and its driving me nuts. Using the HDMI output from from the S97 set at 480P, the image fills the screen. If I switch to 720P or 1080i, there is a 2" band on the top and bottom of the screen which is not filled (i.e. the picture is slightly smaller). Why is it doing this, and is there any solution.

Thanks,
Jason
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I have the same problem but with a DENON 2910!
And the white flashes to!

Is there any solution

I thought I would post my findings here too...

originally posted in...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=472633


I just verified using AVIA's over-scan and pixel cropping test patterns that the 720p DVI output of my 2910 has 0% over-scan and at the most 1 pixel being cropped on the right side. This confirms that the DVD player and my AE500U will display most, if not all, the available DVD resolution using DVI and 720p.

When I check the over-scan with 480p component, I saw the image has about 2 - 3% of the over-scan cutoff, or about 10 to 20 pixels, all the way around the picture.

So, my test tells me that a 720p DVI picture shows nearly all the native resolution of a DVD, where as 480p component input into my AE500U will crop about 3% of the over-scan area. This could explain why I rarely saw side black bars on a 480p picture because if the DVD was mastered with side black bars, they would not be seen in the over-scan area.

DVDs must be mastered for the general masses, which do not have the ability to display the full 480 x 720 pixel picture. The DIVA disk said that a computer display has to break NTSC MPEG 2 timing limits to display a picture with zero over-scan and that is how and why we can see all the over-scan area.

Now that we have asked to see the full frame of the 480x720 pixel DVD picture, we now have to live with pictures that are not edge to edge. Zooming the picture so the black sidebars are in the black frame of our screens is all we can do to eliminate them for now.

One thing I would like to see Denon change is add some sort of over-scan zoom so you can fine tune the picture to eliminate side and possibly even top/bottom bars of 1.85 movies using the DVI/HDMI outputs.

Has anyone come to the same conclusion as I have on this topic?

OK, here's a question for you all. I have a 2910 hooked up to a Panny 507UY plasma via DVI. I love the player, the picture just looks fantastic. However, it looks fantastic at ALL resolutions. I cannot for the life of me see *any* difference between the DVI 480p image, 720p, or 1080i.

They all look *exactly* the same to me.

Do you guys really see major differences when upsampling?

-Bob

I have played with my TV to death, using AVIA and the "official" sony GWIV tweaks thread, but I still can't get a nice picture while watching LOTR.

are there any tweaks for the 2910 to help with this? I have tried all the video modes, and all the output modes, and cannot get the grainy feel and lack of sharp vivid colors out of this player.

any help is appreciated

I have played with my TV to death, using AVIA and the "official" sony GWIV tweaks thread, but I still can't get a nice picture while watching LOTR.

are there any tweaks for the 2910 to help with this? I have tried all the video modes, and all the output modes, and cannot get the grainy feel and lack of sharp vivid colors out of this player.

any help is appreciated

BobDyl, yes I see a difference using the 720p DVI with my Panasonic AE500, but some might not call it a major difference. I was able to compare up-converted picture of the 2910 to both the 480p picture of both the 2200 and 2910. What I saw was a slightly sharper picture using the 720p DVI, but I thought the 480p pictures were still very watchable. What is the native resolution of your plasma? 480p might provide all the real resolution your plasma can use or the plasma's internal scaler it very good.

ssabripo, have you tried to change the Setup Level to 0 IRE in the Picture Adj - Set menu? You will have to leave the picture adjust on M1 thru M5 for the Setup Level to stay at 0. You will have to re-calibrate your display's brightness and contrast after you make the change. Also, Auto1 should be the best video mode for LOTR DVD. Is your display's sharpness still active when you use DVI? Reducing sharpness could also help.

bucky, the native res of the plasma is 1366 x 768 so I'm thinking 720p is the closest - I know there's some complex math behind scaling but does this make sense?

Originally posted by BobDyl
OK, here's a question for you all. I have a 2910 hooked up to a Panny 507UY plasma via DVI. I love the player, the picture just looks fantastic. However, it looks fantastic at ALL resolutions. I cannot for the life of me see *any* difference between the DVI 480p image, 720p, or 1080i.

They all look *exactly* the same to me.

Do you guys really see major differences when upsampling?

-Bob

The main benefit for upsampling DVD players is realized when (a) the de-interlacing and scaling in the DVD player is at least as good as in the TV, and (b) when the DVD player can output in the native resolution of the TV so as to circumvent the TV's scaling circuitry. In that circumstance, I believe I have seen an improvement in picture quality with my front projector when used at its native 720p resolution. Note that the improvement is noticeable, but not awe inspiring.

For example, on the credits of Toy Story 2, when the opening title zooms towards the audience and tilts off level, all the DVD players I have used show slight jaggies on the letters slightly. With the 2910 at 720p, the letters stay perfectly smooth.

Ira

BobDyl, since your plasma has to scale everything to it's native 1366 x 768 it probably has a decent internal scaler. The biggest advantage the 2910 provides you is that it can provide a "good" digital signal at any resolution. Have you every tried 480p from the component outs. You might see a difference between the analog component outs and DVI with you display because of all the D to A and A to D converting a component signal has to do.

It is sometimes hard to compare one persons comments about a certain DVD player when their display can have a big influence on the resulting picture quality.

Originally posted by ssabripo
I have played with my TV to death, using AVIA and the "official" sony GWIV tweaks thread, but I still can't get a nice picture while watching LOTR.

are there any tweaks for the 2910 to help with this? I have tried all the video modes, and all the output modes, and cannot get the grainy feel and lack of sharp vivid colors out of this player.

any help is appreciated

My guess is that the graininess and subdued color you're seeing on the LOTR discs are part of the transfer, with film grain and digital color grading being the culprits. But I have always thought the grain was artificially heavy on those DVDs, even before the 2910.

I also have an HD recording of the 6 minute LOTR trailer from HDNet, which is much cleaner. Doesn't answer the question definitively, since the HD transfer could be just the opposite, having been cleaned up with some noise filtering (I don't know - just speculating). I don't mind film grain, per se, but it seems the LOTR discs suffer from too much of it for some reason. As for color, I don't see much difference between the DVD and HD versions. My set has been ISF calibrated, BTW.

-Corey

originally posted by bucky63:
...have you tried to change the Setup Level to 0 IRE in the Picture Adj - Set menu?
Isn't this the same as selecting "Enhanced" for black level in the main Setup menu (i.e. "Enhanced" = 0 IRE/"Normal" = 7.5 IRE)?

I thought that the 'enhanced' black setting crushed the blacks? Not so?

no, not so.

under "setup" enhanced uses the PC range, normal uses the video range.

the IRE setting is done under picture adjustements I think, and you can use it to set "black" when using the component cables. 7.5 vs 0 IRE, but it DOES NOT affect the DVI/HDMI outputs.

I'm noticing the same thing in the extended editions of the lord of the rings, as well as Star Wars ATOC. colors look washed out. picture looks shaper, but washed out. not sure what to do about it. and this is after setting brightness and contrast with AVIA, and the projector has been SMART III calibrated using another DVD player, so I know the color temp is pretty close to being right on. adjustments to that because of the 2910 shouldn't effect the color looking washed out, so I'm at a loss.

"the IRE setting is done under picture adjustements I think, and you can use it to set "black" when using the component cables. 7.5 vs 0 IRE, but it DOES NOT affect the DVI/HDMI outputs."

On the 2910, the IRE setting DOES affect DVI/HDMI output. On most sets, the correct setting should be black level set to "NORMAL" and IRE set to 0. Adjust through Avia or DVE from there.

Originally posted by Aerohawk
no, not so.

under "setup" enhanced uses the PC range, normal uses the video range.

the IRE setting is done under picture adjustements I think, and you can use it to set "black" when using the component cables. 7.5 vs 0 IRE, but it DOES NOT affect the DVI/HDMI outputs.

I'm noticing the same thing in the extended editions of the lord of the rings, as well as Star Wars ATOC. colors look washed out. picture looks shaper, but washed out. not sure what to do about it. and this is after setting brightness and contrast with AVIA, and the projector has been SMART III calibrated using another DVD player, so I know the color temp is pretty close to being right on. adjustments to that because of the 2910 shouldn't effect the color looking washed out, so I'm at a loss.


If this is true about the pc black range being used on the Enhanced setting, then Pioneer plasma users will need to change it. My pio plasma uses pc/monitor black levels last I read.

If you use a LCD projector, which usually cannot do BTB as DLP unit, I suggested to set the Blackness on 2910 to Enhanced before you go into calibration. Do you guys agree ???

I thought that the bad rap on the Samsung hd 931 and 841 was that they used the PC black scale, i.e., with IRE set to 0, and that the preference--ALWAYS--for it to be set to the 'video' black scale, i.e., IRE = 7.5. There have been tons of threads on this--I thought it was a settled issue. This would suggest that the 2910's black be set to 'normal'. Am I totally out to lunch?

You maybe right n I should be the one going to 'Top Dog' for lunch !!!

:D :D :D

Originally posted by bucky63
BobDyl, since your plasma has to scale everything to it's native 1366 x 768 it probably has a decent internal scaler. The biggest advantage the 2910 provides you is that it can provide a "good" digital signal at any resolution. Have you every tried 480p from the component outs. You might see a difference between the analog component outs and DVI with you display because of all the D to A and A to D converting a component signal has to do.

It is sometimes hard to compare one persons comments about a certain DVD player when their display can have a big influence on the resulting picture quality.

Bucky, I suspect the Panny plasma does a great job of scaling. I can notice a slight difference from 720p vs 1080i HD sources from an HDTivo. If they are passed through at the broadcast resolution and scaled by the plasma, they look *slightly* better than if the Tivo scales them.

And the other day I also hooked up the 2910 component connection and compared that to the DVI connection (both can be hooked up at once but you need to switch between them). You guessed it: couldn't tell the difference when the two inputs were properly calibrated for picture and brightness.

Don't get me wrong. The 2910 picture is great but ... guess I'll have to wait for HD DVD or Blu-Ray for a spectacular picture.

-Bob

Bob, sounds like the processor in your plasma is doing a nice job.

I agree that the 2910 provides a great picture with a good DVD, but HD is better. I'm pretty amazed how close to HD the 2910 provides but I still can't wait for HD-DVDs either.

Originally posted by BobDyl
Bucky, I suspect the Panny plasma does a great job of scaling. I can notice a slight difference from 720p vs 1080i HD sources from an HDTivo. If they are passed through at the broadcast resolution and scaled by the plasma, they look *slightly* better than if the Tivo scales them.

And the other day I also hooked up the 2910 component connection and compared that to the DVI connection (both can be hooked up at once but you need to switch between them). You guessed it: couldn't tell the difference when the two inputs were properly calibrated for picture and brightness.

Don't get me wrong. The 2910 picture is great but ... guess I'll have to wait for HD DVD or Blu-Ray for a spectacular picture.

-Bob

How are you calibrating? (And do you want to buy a DVI cable

mismatched

Okay, what am I seeing here? While watching "Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope" on my 2910, when the Death Star is destroyed, I noticed a strange, smeared blue halo around the explosion. Bluish MPEG artificating. Looks really bad, but only appears here, not in the exploding Alderaan shot or the second Death Star blowing up in "Return of the Jedi."

What is that and is that something the firmware fix out there addresses?

Originally posted by mismatched
How are you calibrating? (And do you want to buy a DVI cable

mismatched
For the 2910, I'm calibrating using the basic video tests in Avia and cross checking with the THX optimizer
From HD D*, I'm using the HDNet test patterns
I think I'm good on the DVI cables, thanks though!
-Bob

Using the AVIA disc, are people actually "calibrating" the monitor rather than the DVD player? i.e., are you guys changing default settings on a TV or the factory defaults on the DVD player with the Avia? I just got a 2910 and haven't touched one setting yet. I emailed Denon for the firmware upgrade and they said they would send it out. Has anyone loaded the firmware upgrade/update disc and screwed up the player? I'm using a Denon 2105 and a JVC D-ila - so far everything works and I can see myself calibrating myself and upgrading myself into a mess!

Originally posted by bferr1
Okay, what am I seeing here? While watching "Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope" on my 2910, when the Death Star is destroyed, I noticed a strange, smeared blue halo around the explosion. Bluish MPEG artificating. Looks really bad, but only appears here, not in the exploding Alderaan shot or the second Death Star blowing up in "Return of the Jedi."

What is that and is that something the firmware fix out there addresses?

Well since it ain't a happening in every explosion think of it as a cool special effects "extra"!! Wink

Originally posted by BenF12400
Using the AVIA disc, are people actually "calibrating" the monitor rather than the DVD player? i.e., are you guys changing default settings on a TV or the factory defaults on the DVD player with the Avia? I just got a 2910 and haven't touched one setting yet. I emailed Denon for the firmware upgrade and they said they would send it out. Has anyone loaded the firmware upgrade/update disc and screwed up the player? I'm using a Denon 2105 and a JVC D-ila - so far everything works and I can see myself calibrating myself and upgrading myself into a mess!

- With Avia I'm calibrating the monitor, not the 2910, with the exception that I set the black level on the 2910 to "enhanced" (this seems to be the correct black level setting for plasma screens)

- I upgraded the firmware with no problem. There have been some scattered problems reported but most have had no problem so long as you follow the instructions exactly. I don't believe the firmware changed any settings on the player but I can't be sure...

-bob

BobDyl: Did you notice any PQ change with the upgraded firmware?

I'm having a problem playing SACD's. Audio setup is set to multi-channel and the 2910 is connected to a receiver with the 5.1 inputs. The SACD setup is set to multi. The front panel display says the 2910 recognizes the disk as a SACD, but it plays (and the front panel displays) only the right and left channels. The hook up to the receiver is correct as DVD-A's play ok. Any thoughts if I'm doing something wrong or should I return the unit?

my 2910 also has some sort of strange error that I don't understand. Maybe it's macroblocking. A really obnoxious alien-looking thing keeps appearing in random scenes in the Phantom Menace. Must be an audio glitch too because it makes noises that make me cringe.

posted by rlwetzel:
I'm having a problem playing SACD's.
Does the SACD in question state that it is multi-channel? Not all SACDs are (this is something I've just learned, as I experienced the same thing as you).

posted by BobDyl:
I upgraded the firmware with no problem.
Can you get me up to speed on this? What problem does the upgrade address?

GUYS!

*ENHANCED* is not preferred if you can avoid it. This adjustment only should apply to the digital outputs.

Enhanced performs an expansion to PC levels that clips BTB data and peak whites, and introduces contouring problems. You should maintain Video-RGB levels if possible. Use the white and black level controls on your display to adjust things to match the levels.

Originally posted by millerwill
BobDyl: Did you notice any PQ change with the upgraded firmware?

Nope. It was supposed to fix a chroma bug which I wasn't seeing anyway. just figured I might as well get the latest firmware.

Chriswiggles: I think the choice of enhanced option depends on the monitor being used and whether it's expecting PC black levels or not. I could not calibrate the brightness for the 2910 on the normal option, but with enhanced I could and it looks great (this is on a panny plasma). I do not lose the BTB data with the enhanced option, at least according to avia. Haven't seen any contouring problems...

regards,

Bob

What about Enhanced Black setting on LCD projector, like AE500 ?? Any comment ???

Bob: You should not use enhanced black in general.

As stated, "enhanced" black modes with digital outputs will perform a conversion to PC levels, which clips BTB data and peak whites. This is only viewable on test patterns encoded with this data, which consumer Avia is not. You must use DVE, or Avia Pro to see this clipping. If you're clipping the slightly above black bars, or slightly below white bars in Avia, you are clipping even more than just BTB and peak whites.

A monitor should hopefully have enough adjustment range to properly display black, and white through black and white level adjustments regardless of whether the source is a PC, or a video source following Video RGB standard.

If your monitor does not have enough adjustment range to do this, it is poorly designed. I would consider a different connection method, such as component video, and see if this works better than moving from Normal, to enhanced, which is not desireable, as it introduces contouring, and irretreviably clips image data.

Not sure why a projector or other display device would have something labeled "enhanced black," this is a very vague adjustment label, so it could be one of a few things, most likely relating to calibration of input levels similar to brightness control.

posted by ChrisWiggles
You must use DVE, or Avia Pro to see this clipping.
Out of curiousity, I checked this myself on my Sam DLP (connected via HDMI); I was able to see the below black bar using DVE while set to Enhanced, albeit at a higher Brightness setting (closer to the the factory default, actually...) than what I am presently using with the Normal setting.

Or am I misinterpreting this?

Back on the first page of this thread, longshanksdvd said...

Originally posted by longshanksdvd
Correction on #2 question....

Enhanced is for displays expecting a PC level of black, I think it is 0-255

Normal is for displays that expect "video" level of black, I think it is 16-235


Is there an easy way to determine if your display is expecting PC or video levels of black?

If these numbers are right, it looks like the video level is clipping both black and white unless I don't understand what is going on here and there is a good chance of that. :)

Also, the 2910 will let you adjust the brightness and contrast so if your display does not have the range of adjustment needed you could use the player's adjustments to get it in the ball park and then do the fine adjustment in the displays controls. Does this make sense? :confused:

The black level is set prior to brightness setting , so no it cannot be adjusted by brightness control if not set correctly.

Best way to find out is too test with Avia or even better to call your display tech support and find out what it's digital input (DVI or HDMI) is expecting.

I believe most cases it is looking for Video levels (thus normal setting in regards to black)

But does this mean that the video levels are actually compressing the black and the white levels?

Originally posted by ChrisWiggles
Bob: You should not use enhanced black in general.

A monitor should hopefully have enough adjustment range to properly display black, and white through black and white level adjustments regardless of whether the source is a PC, or a video source following Video RGB standard.

If your monitor does not have enough adjustment range to do this, it is poorly designed.



I'll let Panasonic know they should go back to the drawing board. ;-) Seriously though, on this plasma (7th gen Panny 50" HD panel), with black set to normal, it's not possible to get true blacks on screen without crushing them. The enhanced setting looks great, you can get blacks and calibrate for detail -- where are you getting the data that this is clipping blacks and peak whites?
regards,
Bob

Out of curiousity, I checked this myself on my Sam DLP (connected via HDMI); I was able to see the below black bar using DVE while set to Enhanced, albeit at a higher Brightness setting (closer to the the factory default, actually...) than what I am presently using with the Normal setting.

Or am I misinterpreting this?

Bruce: I believe HDMI will lock to video modes as part of the HDMI standard. I am thinking that the video level setting is not affecting the HDMI. Flip this setting back and forth while viewing patterns to see if any changes occurs in the presence of the BTB bars in DVE. You can use the reverse ramp pattern, I believe it's chapter 14 or 15 or something, to see the whitest bar, and the blackest bar at the ends. These are both >235, and <16, respectively. If you use DVI, and flipped the normal/enhanced option, you'd see these bars get clipped into reference black, and nominal reference white which are the bars one in right next to them. I suspect that this setting is not affecting your HDMI output at all, and is maintaining video levels regardless, this is a good thing.

Is there an easy way to determine if your display is expecting PC or video levels of black?

A display shouldn't "expect" any particular setting. A display that "expects" one setting or another would be devoid of any black level or white level, etc adjustments. Just as you use these adjustments to match analog voltage values, such as with 0 or 7.5 IRE outputs, you use these adjustments to match the possible differences in digital inputs, be it PC or Video levels. Some displays have handy adjustment options for this that accomplish the same thing, but are not manual brightness and contrast controls, but menu options for 0 or 7.5 IRE when dealing in analog signals, or pc levels and video levels for digital signals that conveniently adjust things to match the standard levels properly.

Best way to find out is too test with Avia or even better to call your display tech support and find out what it's digital input (DVI or HDMI) is expecting.

As noted above, consumer Avia is limited to data values between 16 and 235, it contains no BTB or peak white data unfortunately, as a limitation of the MPEG encoder used when making the disc. Thus, you will not see any clipping of BTB or peak white values, because they are not present on the disc, so you cannot notice their absence in patterns. You must use a disc such as DVE, or Avia Pro, which both contain the full range of values in various patterns.

If these numbers are right, it looks like the video level is clipping both black and white unless I don't understand what is going on here and there is a good chance of that.

But does this mean that the video levels are actually compressing the black and the white levels?

Let me take a brief moment to explain the difference. In computers, you may be familiar that black is 0,0,0, and white is 255,255,255. This is the full range of digital values. Unfortunately, this was not designed by video engineers, and proper display of video signals needs some footroom and headroom for the best video reproduction. Thus, video RGB standards place reference black at 16, not at 0, (also note that 0, and 255 are illegal for digital video signals), leaving some footroom which is beneficial for a number of reasons. First, hard clipping of the video signal in analog systems produces artifacts due to that clipping of the signa at black, it also allows some room for the float in black level retention that occurs in CRT displays, so the "actual" black of a scene will drift up and down slightly from this value of 16, as the video is mastered by a mastering engineer, the toeroom is also very helpful in video processing, and determining DLP dithering cycles, etc. There is a nominal value called "reference white" at 235 in video signals, however significant amounts of white go above this, as this value is really a nominal value. These peak whites allow for details in bright portions of the picture.

What happens, then, when these two standards intersect as computers and video sources become more intertwined? The short answer is that you run into this problem of different standards. The solution that hopefully we succeed in moving towards, is for computer to alter their standard to match Video RGB standard, as this is preferred for the best display of video material. The other way this is handled, unfortunately, is to expand the video material to match the computer standard. This stretches video material within the bounds of reference black and white, to the PC values. 16 gets mapped down to digital 1; 235 gets mapped up to 254. This permanently clips all BTB data and peak whites from your image, and introduces contouring due to this expansion of digital levels. This is why you see clipping in DVE or Avia Pro patterns. The BTB bars, and the white patterns that extend above reference white are clipped off when this expansion is performed. In Avia, there is no data outside of these bounds, unfortunately, so you cannot see this clipping occurring with consumer Avia patterns.

If you use an HTPC, for instance, overlay mode usually will perform this expansion, while in most instances using VMR rendering will maintain Video levels for proper video playback. What this means, however, if you maintain proper video playback, is that you calibrate to your video playback, then your desktop will not be correct, but this is something that is worth having proper video playback. Windos Media Center Edition, I believe alters desktop values to match Video levels so that both can be viewed correctly simultaneously. Future versions of windows, hopefully, will be successful at conforming to Video RGB standards.

See these threads for more thorough background and understanding of the issues involved:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4030461&highlight=7.5+IRE#post4030461

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416292

See the attachments in this thread for the digital values of various patterns:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=418084

As long as I'm posting links, you will likely find this last one useless, but anyway:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/YUVFormats.asp

posted by ChrisWiggles
I believe HDMI will lock to video modes as part of the HDMI standard...I suspect that [the normal/enhanced] setting is not affecting your HDMI output at all, and is maintaining video levels regardless, this is a good thing.

But actually there is a difference when I toggle this setting. "Normal" is calibrated to where brightness is at 38. Switching to "Enhanced" darkens the display to where I need to up the brightness to 49.

Similarly, if I keep the setting on "Normal" and toggle the black level (Picture Adjust>Set) from 7.5 IRE to 0 IRE, the display darkens, (still over HDMI). I didn't recalibrate this, so I don't know if the amount is the same as above. But from what I've read in other posts, this should most likely be left at 7.5 anyway. Any comments on that?

Since you seem well-versed on all this, let me ask you this: the reason I'm calibrating brightness for both Normal and Enhanced is to accommodate the (alleged) fact that NTSC uses the 7.5 IRE standard and HDTV uses the 0 IRE standard. Firstly, is this in fact true? And, secondly, if so, it would seem to make sense to increase the brightness accordingly for HDTV viewing (which does look better at this brighter setting, I must admit).

As for contrast, using the ramp diagrams on DVE, for the life of me, no matter how low I turn the contrast down there is never any difference between the reference white (the three dots) and anything above that. I don't know if that's something particular with DLP sets or because I'm using HDMI (I haven't checked with DVI or component), but I've just opted for the generally suggested 85-90 range for contrast.

See this attachment for the DVE ramp values:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4033035&fullpage=1

Notice that the second bars in are 16 and 235, which are reference black and white. The bars at the ends are both outside these bounds, and will be clipped if a PC-level expansion is occurring. Instead of seeing these bars as different, they will appear identical to the ones next to them, as they will be clipped to that value. It may be possible that this data is not being preserved at all in your player, which points to very poor design, but I'm guessing this is not the case.

This is how you can observe differences are you flip these various options. Not sure why DVD players are altering the digital outputs when adjusting the IRE setup option, this seems silly to me, but regardless it seems to be happening in many products. IRE is a purely analog issue, it does not enter the picture at all when talking about DVI/HDMI or any other digital transmission method.

But you should use a digital option which maintains video levels if possible, usually this is "normal" or some such label, instead of "enhanced," which is a terribly misleading label.

the reason I'm calibrating brightness for both Normal and Enhanced is to accommodate the (alleged) fact that NTSC uses the 7.5 IRE standard and HDTV uses the 0 IRE standard. Firstly, is this in fact true?

It is true that north american NTSC standards call for black to be output at 7.5 IRE, while JApanese NTSC and HD use 0IRE. However, this is *thoroughly* unrelated to the digital levels issue. IRE is a representation of ANALOG voltages. 0IRE is 0 millivolts, 7.5 IRE is about 54 mV. There is no analog video signal, hence no voltages, that are happening with a digital transmission method. IRE setup differences would ONLY come into play with analog inputs. That your player is altering the digital outputs for some odd reason when adjusting this setting is a strange design, but seemingly not uncommon.

Also, please read the first 3 links I posted, as they delve into these issues with good background, and may clear up some of the confusion.

I'm using the HDMI out from the 2910 to my Dila - seems to be working fine once I corrected the digital audio input on the TV (just testing to see if the HDMI worked properly since there have been some reported problems with the JVC). Picture with 720P or 1080i seem identical. Can someone explain the difference between the HDMI Y Cb CR and the HDMI RGB? Their significance is lost on me. FYI - I'm using a 3' Bluejeans cable.

Hi everyone,

i have a sony HS20 and a 2910 everything work fine with all the connections i tried even with DVI but when i connect it through HDMI there's nothing show up except flashing the picture once. is there any setting i suppose to do? or would there be any malfunction in one of my unit? i've been trying for an hour, now very frustrated....please help me!
Thanks in advance
Atitep

I just was playing around for about 3 hours with my 3 DVD players.

The Denon 2910 connected with an Optical DVI cable looked just OK. Kinda dull colors. I am VERY disappointed and hope I can return it!!!! Unless I am doing something wrong here. Anyone have any issues like this??

My old Denon 2900 connected via some Trib Silver Component Cables SMOKED the 2910. Looked really good, Sharp and some really good colors.

But to my TOTAL amazement, My Samsung cheapo $200 Best Buy DVD player connected with the same DVI Optical Cable KILLED both my Denons. It was EXTREMELY clear, Vivid RICH colors. I couldn't beleive it. SHOCKED more like it. If that player played DVR's I would keep it in my theatre setup. And get rid of the Denons.

I don't understand what is going on here!!!! Can anyone recommend a KICKASS DVD player that will match up good this PJ!?!?!?!?!? Under 2g guys.

ChrisWiggles:

Thanks for the details. I'll have time in the next few days to go over those links you posted and try to get my head wrapped around this thing.:)

atitep:

I'm using HDMI as well and had a similar experience once. Try powering the TV off/on with the Denon turned on and see if it re-syncs the connection.

Originally posted by ChrisWiggles
Bruce: I believe HDMI will lock to video modes as part of the HDMI standard. I am thinking that the video level setting is not affecting the HDMI. Flip this setting back and forth while viewing patterns to see if any changes occurs in the presence of the BTB bars in DVE. You can use the reverse ramp pattern, I believe it's chapter 14 or 15 or something, to see the whitest bar, and the blackest bar at the ends. These are both >235, and <16, respectively. If you use DVI, and flipped the normal/enhanced option, you'd see these bars get clipped into reference black, and nominal reference white which are the bars one in right next to them. I suspect that this setting is not affecting your HDMI output at all, and is maintaining video levels regardless, this is a good thing.



A display shouldn't "expect" any particular setting. A display that "expects" one setting or another would be devoid of any black level or white level, etc adjustments. Just as you use these adjustments to match analog voltage values, such as with 0 or 7.5 IRE outputs, you use these adjustments to match the possible differences in digital inputs, be it PC or Video levels. Some displays have handy adjustment options for this that accomplish the same thing, but are not manual brightness and contrast controls, but menu options for 0 or 7.5 IRE when dealing in analog signals, or pc levels and video levels for digital signals that conveniently adjust things to match the standard levels properly.



As noted above, consumer Avia is limited to data values between 16 and 235, it contains no BTB or peak white data unfortunately, as a limitation of the MPEG encoder used when making the disc. Thus, you will not see any clipping of BTB or peak white values, because they are not present on the disc, so you cannot notice their absence in patterns. You must use a disc such as DVE, or Avia Pro, which both contain the full range of values in various patterns.





Let me take a brief moment to explain the difference. In computers, you may be familiar that black is 0,0,0, and white is 255,255,255. This is the full range of digital values. Unfortunately, this was not designed by video engineers, and proper display of video signals needs some footroom and headroom for the best video reproduction. Thus, video RGB standards place reference black at 16, not at 0, (also note that 0, and 255 are illegal for digital video signals), leaving some footroom which is beneficial for a number of reasons. First, hard clipping of the video signal in analog systems produces artifacts due to that clipping of the signa at black, it also allows some room for the float in black level retention that occurs in CRT displays, so the "actual" black of a scene will drift up and down slightly from this value of 16, as the video is mastered by a mastering engineer, the toeroom is also very helpful in video processing, and determining DLP dithering cycles, etc. There is a nominal value called "reference white" at 235 in video signals, however significant amounts of white go above this, as this value is really a nominal value. These peak whites allow for details in bright portions of the picture.

What happens, then, when these two standards intersect as computers and video sources become more intertwined? The short answer is that you run into this problem of different standards. The solution that hopefully we succeed in moving towards, is for computer to alter their standard to match Video RGB standard, as this is preferred for the best display of video material. The other way this is handled, unfortunately, is to expand the video material to match the computer standard. This stretches video material within the bounds of reference black and white, to the PC values. 16 gets mapped down to digital 1; 235 gets mapped up to 254. This permanently clips all BTB data and peak whites from your image, and introduces contouring due to this expansion of digital levels. This is why you see clipping in DVE or Avia Pro patterns. The BTB bars, and the white patterns that extend above reference white are clipped off when this expansion is performed. In Avia, there is no data outside of these bounds, unfortunately, so you cannot see this clipping occurring with consumer Avia patterns.

If you use an HTPC, for instance, overlay mode usually will perform this expansion, while in most instances using VMR rendering will maintain Video levels for proper video playback. What this means, however, if you maintain proper video playback, is that you calibrate to your video playback, then your desktop will not be correct, but this is something that is worth having proper video playback. Windos Media Center Edition, I believe alters desktop values to match Video levels so that both can be viewed correctly simultaneously. Future versions of windows, hopefully, will be successful at conforming to Video RGB standards.

Chris,

Sorry for not being more accurate.....I meant DVE not Avia sorry.

On my IF 7205 the digital input does respond to 0 and 7.5 IRE. If the signal is being sent upconverted to HD ....0 will result in a properly calibrated black level, when using componet 480i I must use 7.5. I am sure either can be adjusted, however setting IRE will allow for the display to be set at the default for a accurate picture.

True about the word "expects" ,I am was just trying to get him rolling without typing a book. I am able to set gains and offsets on my projector to accept video levels.

Can somebody please post where to DL the new Firmware and instructions on what to burn it with and loading into the 2910.

Thanks!!!!

Chris, thanks from me too! I'm going to try and digest all the information you provided and see what I come up with my display.

Your effort at trying to educate us all is much appreciated!

andrewjnyc
Were you able to solve the flashing problem using the HDMI connector? I have a 3910 and the same problem with a new Sony TV. Thanks

Is there any 1.10 firmware + region free around?

Can someone tell me why the 2910's do not seem to be in stock anywhere? Especially the Silver units. I just placed an order for one and I've been told about 7-14 days. Are they that popular or is Denon delaying shipping for some reason?

With regard to the 2910 Denon Firmware update, I emailed Denon and it arrived via mail a few days later. Took seconds to update. I'm not to sure it did much from my perspective, I use DVI or component into a Panny EDTV.

If anyone has calibrated this for a Panny EDTV, please advise what you did, cause I think the PQ is ok (sound is great though), but the PQ does not appear to be significantly improved IMHO from my aging RP-82.

I also received the firmware update today but am hesitant to install it since the instructions say to have the monitor hooked up via s-video or composite, not HDMI or DVI. Has anyone tried to update the firmware via HDMI?

posted by BenF12400
Can someone explain the difference between the HDMI Y Cb CR and the HDMI RGB? Their significance is lost on me.
Ben, did you ever find out anything more about this? I'm curious as well.

the firmware runs by itself and displays, reading, writing, updating etc on the dvd players display. I updated mine without even turning on the tv.

ZZtop, did you ever post your impressions of the 2910 compared to your Bravo?

Bruce 73 - no answer yet to my RGB question

Ben, I asked in the Secrets of Home Theatre forum and got this response from Kris Deering:
This is just a selection so that you have the option of what piece of equipment does the color space conversion for you. But there may be more to it then that. HDMI is capable of outputting up to 12 bit YCbCr so depending on the video processing, it may be better to output YCbCr and let the display convert to RGB at whatever bit depth it handles. Usually the more information you give a display to work with, the better. So I would recommend outputting YCbCr to be on the safe side. There is a chance that the color space conversion may not be as good in the display but you could always switch between and compare for yourself.

HTH,
Bruce

Originally posted by Cilent1
ZZtop, did you ever post your impressions of the 2910 compared to your Bravo?

No I didn't post them because my plasma is still in the shop, so no way to test the DVI or anything other than 480i for the most part right now.

My quick impression is the image might be a bit more solid but has green push to it and some black macroblocking.

The Bravo has no black blocking issue I can see or green push.

I watch a ton of sci fi material, movies and series material. The black macroblocking is definitely there on the 2910 though its way, way less than the 1910 I had. That was just hideous.

But, this is an initial impression based on what I saw when its hook to a 480i 35 inch Sony XBR tube and very briefly to someone elses plasma. I can state this for absolute fact: there is still some black macroblocking with th

I could see something completely different via DVI on my plasma when I hook it up, especially with the firmware fix.

Since it was a local B&M purchase at almost full retail, it's proving very expensive comparatively speaking to step up from the Bravo, and at near 700$ with tax it may not have been worth it. The picture quality may indeed be better, but was it worth 700$? I don't know yet.

The question I have, of all the people who installed this firmware DVI/HDMI chroma fix for the 2910/3910: what have you seen fixed/improved?

You can get a silver DVD-2910 as the Denon DVD-955 or DVD-955S from Denon's Specialty line all over the Internet. The players are identical.

Adjusting the PQ (pp 45-48 of the 2910 Manual):

Is there any consensus on settings for 'image quality' that are different from the Factory Defaults? I have a hlp6163.

Thanks for any info. (I like the 2910 very much; have also tried out the Sam 841, Denon 1910, and Panny s97!)

Has anyone had problems playing DVD +RW format on the 2910? I captured some video from a VCR onto a DVD +RW. It plays on my notebook PC but won't play on the 2910. I thought the 2910 was supposed to play +RWs. Any ideas? Thanks.

Ok, got a tip for the other 2910 owners here. If you're not liking the picture you're getting thru dvi and are in "normal" video mode, switch to ENHANCED mode. No matter how much tweaking I did before I still didn't like the picture. It was always a little washed out even if you turned the brightness all the way down. My component picture always looked very good and I could never match it thru dvi when in the normal video mode.

My older toshiba dvd player was always like this too when hooked up to my RPTV. I always got the best picture when using the enhanced video level mode. Now don't get me wrong, you SHOULD be able to get the picture identical to the enhanced mode even when in the normal mode but from what I can tell you have to do that through the service menu.

In normal mode my blacks were always a bit greenish when comparing dvi to component. Now my dvi blacks are solid (I also ran the upgrade disc from denon this week). I am running the 2910 via dvi to a Panasonic TH50PHD7UY plasma and now love the picture much more than I did the other day before switching video modes. So, if you're not so pleased with the dvi picture you're getting and are in normal video mode now, give it a try and see how you like it.

What I've found is that it's much easier to get a very eye-pleasing picture thru dvi with the video in enhanced mode. (without going into the service menu, that is...) Lemme know what you think...

Originally posted by dvdguru
Ok, got a tip for the other 2910 owners here. If you're not liking the picture you're getting thru dvi and are in "normal" video mode, switch to ENHANCED mode. No matter how much tweaking I did before I still didn't like the picture. It was always a little washed out even if you turned the brightness all the way down. My component picture always looked very good and I could never match it thru dvi when in the normal video mode.

My older toshiba dvd player was always like this too when hooked up to my RPTV. I always got the best picture when using the enhanced video level mode. Now don't get me wrong, you SHOULD be able to get the picture identical to the enhanced mode even when in the normal mode but from what I can tell you have to do that through the service menu.

In normal mode my blacks were always a bit greenish when comparing dvi to component. Now my dvi blacks are solid (I also ran the upgrade disc from denon this week). I am running the 2910 via dvi to a Panasonic TH50PHD7UY plasma and now love the picture much more than I did the other day before switching video modes. So, if you're not so pleased with the dvi picture you're getting and are in normal video mode now, give it a try and see how you like it.

What I've found is that it's much easier to get a very eye-pleasing picture thru dvi with the video in enhanced mode. (without going into the service menu, that is...) Lemme know what you think...

dvdguru

You or anyone else out there try the 2910 hooked up via an HDMI connection and if so can they offer a comparision vs component vs DVI??

thanks

Mike

The hdmi board is not available until December for the new panny plasma but I'm buying it when it arrives for the denon 2910. Then I'll use the dvi input for the Time Warner hd8000 box when they activate dvi in first quarter 2005.

Originally posted by dvdguru
The hdmi board is not available until December for the new panny plasma but I'm buying it when it arrives for the denon 2910. Then I'll use the dvi input for the Time Warner hd8000 box when they activate dvi in first quarter 2005.

Yeah I plan on connecting the Moto HD Comcast box via DVI and the 2910 via HDMI. so I look forward to hearing about your experiences with a similar setup.

M

Originally posted by ZZtop


My quick impression is the image might be a bit more solid but has green push to it and some black macroblocking.

The Bravo has no black blocking issue I can see or green push.

I watch a ton of sci fi material, movies and series material. The black macroblocking is definitely there on the 2910 though its way, way less than the 1910 I had. That was just hideous.

But, this is an initial impression based on what I saw when its hook to a 480i 35 inch Sony XBR tube and very briefly to someone elses plasma. I can state this for absolute fact: there is still some black macroblocking with th

I could see something completely different via DVI on my plasma when I hook it up, especially with the firmware fix.



Were these observations before or after you applied the new firmware? Is the macroblocking very noticable or distracting? I've been thinking about trying this player because I want to find one that will get the most out of my new Panny plasma but am concerned about the macroblocking reports.

The only place I can find a 2910S/955S in stock to ship is with an un-authorized dealer. I don't want to wait for the backorders to be filled, but if I buy from an un-authorized dealer I won't have any warranty correct? I've never needed service with any other DVD player but... :confused: Would I at least be able to obtain firmware updates?

mismatched - as far as I can tell, DVI=HDMI on my JVC; component not quite as good

Originally posted by rickwil61
Were these observations before or after you applied the new firmware? Is the macroblocking very noticable or distracting? I've been thinking about trying this player because I want to find one that will get the most out of my new Panny plasma but am concerned about the macroblocking reports.


Yes its with the firmware fix, but right now no means to test the hdmi/dvi ports to see how the fix worked.

I totally agreed that DVI/HDMI on 2910 should be the reason why people are buying this unit, since its component out is so ordinary n a notch below the Pioneer player I used to have.



Originally posted by BenF12400
mismatched - as far as I can tell, DVI=HDMI on my JVC; component not quite as good

Has anyone had problems accessing the audio setup? I have it set on multi channel but everything besides sacd filter and compression is blacked out. I want to access the speaker setup so i can change the chanell levels but can't get into it.

Originally posted by udp
Has anyone had problems accessing the audio setup? I have it set on multi channel but everything besides sacd filter and compression is blacked out. I want to access the speaker setup so i can change the chanell levels but can't get into it.

Sounds like you have an option on your first menu screen set wrong, I am currently at work so I can't actually look at it. There should be a setting for audio out options there somewhere, change it and you should be good to go. Only other thing I can think of would be your pure direct is set in video mode?? I'll take a look again when I get home if you haven't figured it out by then...
Regards,
Steve

Bruce73:
I am HDMI connected to a Panny DLP. I cannot see any difference in pictue quality when switching between HDMI YCbCr and RGB.
Does anyone have any suggestions which to select as a general rule?

Originally posted by rdkaz
Bruce73:
I am HDMI connected to a Panny DLP. I cannot see any difference in pictue quality when switching between HDMI YCbCr and RGB.
Does anyone have any suggestions which to select as a general rule?

1. HDMI/DVI - Provides direct digital path to display
2. Component - Provides better path for transmission/separation of colors.
3. S-Video - Susceptible to interference due to everything being crammed into one small cable, if your using it, it's best to invest in a high quality one.
4. Video - Last Resort

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
1. HDMI/DVI - Provides direct digital path to display
2. Component - Provides better path for transmission/separation of colors.
3. S-Video - Susceptible to interference due to everything being crammed into one small cable, if your using it, it's best to invest in a high quality one.
4. Video - Last Resort

Thanks; but I was referring to only the HDMI video output options available ie; Y Cb Cr or RGB.

However, what are the plus and minuses of HDMI vs. Component?

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
Sounds like you have an option on your first menu screen set wrong, I am currently at work so I can't actually look at it. There should be a setting for audio out options there somewhere, change it and you should be good to go. Only other thing I can think of would be your pure direct is set in video mode?? I'll take a look again when I get home if you haven't figured it out by then...
Regards,
Steve

I also am experiencing same thing. However, do the audio settings matter on the 2910 if I have already adjusted the speakers using my Harman Kardon 7200 receiver?

Originally posted by rdkaz
I also am experiencing same thing. However, do the audio settings matter on the 2910 if I have already adjusted the speakers using my Harman Kardon 7200 receiver?

You should set them up so the they are duplicate, same for both, by that I mean speaker size, then use the A/V unit to adjust output levels. It is also highly recommend to use the bass enhancer on the DVD player if your not already, and then adjusting the bass using the A/V unit or Sub if so equipped...........

Originally posted by rdkaz
I also am experiencing same thing. However, do the audio settings matter on the 2910 if I have already adjusted the speakers using my Harman Kardon 7200 receiver?

I'm using a DVI connection, but I believe you and udp (not sure if he is using HDMI) have your audio configured to be used for your HDMI connection, you need to tell the player in the menu somewhere to bypass the HDMI connection for audio use.

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
I'm using a DVI connection, but I believe you and udp (not sure if he is using HDMI) have your audio configured to be used for your HDMI connection, you need to tell the player in the menu somewhere to bypass the HDMI connection for audio use.

I thought that might be the problem; but my AVR is receiving audio signals from the Digital Coax output cable just fine; since it doesn't have an HDMI input. Do you think using the dvd DVI output with an adapter to the HDMI connector on the TV would work?

The only thing I can think of is that you have your HDMI configured to Multi-CH on the setup screen under the HDMI/DVI Balck Level. Make sure that is set to 2CH. This should unlock the other audio options.....

rdkaz:

If you're not going to use the HDMI audio signal, set HDMI ouput to "2CH" under the "Digital Interface Setup" page. I believe that should free up those options in the "Audio Setup" page.

If you're ouputting audio via digital cable to your A/V receiver, the receiver's settings will be used. If you're ouputting analog audio via the normal 2-channel or the SACD 6-channel ouputs, the 2910's settings will be used (at least this the way it is ouputting to my Yamaha HTR-5450).

As to the HDMI video output (YCbCr vs. RGB), this is what I learned from Kris Deering at the Secrets of Home Theatre forum:

This is just a selection so that you have the option of what piece of equipment does the color space conversion for you. But there may be more to it then that. HDMI is capable of outputting up to 12 bit YCbCr so depending on the video processing, it may be better to output YCbCr and let the display convert to RGB at whatever bit depth it handles. Usually the more information you give a display to work with, the better. So I would recommend outputting YCbCr to be on the safe side. There is a chance that the color space conversion may not be as good in the display but you could always switch between and compare for yourself.

I just got the CD from Denon to upgrade the firmware....it mentions corrections to the DVD-A menu thru DVI, and HDMI 1.1 support, but doens't mention anything about the Green push, and the Macroblocking.

does anyone know if these issues get resolved with the firmware upgrade?

thanks!

Steve_Lazarus and bruce73:

Thanks to both of you. I am not home now; but I'm certain I didn't have the digital output set to 2 channel. I will try that. However; does it matter,; since I"m using the AVR speaker setup and not the 2910?

I haven't tried SACD or DVDA yet. I'm sure I'll have more questions then.

I guess I'll use the Y Cb Cr HDMI output for the video. Any suggestions on whether to use the 720p or 1080i format? I am connected to a Panny DLP.

Just a 2910 manual observation: It would be nice if they provided explanation notes; to help you select the correct settings.

Originally posted by rkaz
Steve_Lazarus and bruce73:


I guess I'll use the Y Cb Cr HDMI output for the video. Any suggestions on whether to use the 720p or 1080i format? I am connected to a Panny DLP.

Just a 2910 manual observation: It would be nice if they provided explanation notes; to help you select the correct settings.

Rkaz,

I spent sometime last nite playing around with this same exact thing, and here is what I found:

1. In LOTR and Gladiator, both seemed to be better at 1080i than 720p. My guess is that it is film-based, and since my TV (SOny 55XS955) converts everything to 768p, that there is more "data" available at 1080i than 720p, and thus it looked fuller when sony tried to reconvert it to 768p.

2. In Nemo and Shrek, the opposite was true....I found that 720p provided a better overall picture than 1080i, and this kinda confused me. They are animated pictures, and thus I would have guessed that by using 1080i cominf out of the DVD, the TV would do better, but it was not the case.

3. in dark movies, like Gladiator, LOTR, and nite shots of Spiderman, etc, when using the enhanced black, it made a WORLD of difference!!!! Again, when looking at Nemo and Shrek, I liked it better without it, but it was a must in LOTR.

I still have to see which mode (auto1, auto2, video1-3) works better with these DVD's, but I was too tired to continue messing with it.

I thought that ALL the audio settings on the 2910 were by-passed if one used digital audio cables (optical or coax) connected directly to an AVR. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In my "testing" with the 2910 hooked up via HDMI to a mits dlp 52525, regardless of DVD (tried several action, drama, and animation - watched about 12 DVDs so far using this player) the best picture always was 480p Y Cr Cb. I also tried component cables and the HDMI was "clearly" superior. Not SD to HD type change but noticable improvement over HDMI.

As an aside, the major issues I've had while watching DVDs are that Panic Room Superbit has terrible green push (VERY bad) and the Matrix (not the new remastered version that comes in the new box set, the original release on DVD) looked very pixalated regardless of settings or connection used. Both of these we so bad that I'm considering returning the Denon for fear that these types of issues will show up in other movies.

Originally posted by millerwill
I thought that ALL the audio settings on the 2910 were by-passed if one used digital audio cables (optical or coax) connected directly to an AVR. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Interesting. if true the digital multimedia interface output to 2 channel won't work either. I guess I'l try it to see.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by phicar2
[B]In my "testing" with the 2910 hooked up via HDMI to a mits dlp 52525, regardless of DVD (tried several action, drama, and animation - watched about 12 DVDs so far using this player) the best picture always was 480p Y Cr Cb. I also tried component cables and the HDMI was "clearly" superior. Not SD to HD type change but noticable improvement over HDMI.

Are you saying that the HDMI Y Cr Cb output was used at a 480p format? Or did you mean 720p?

He must mean 720p since YCrCb has no meaning for 480p.

I am trying to setup my dvd player; which is connected to a Panny DLP via HDMI; and have read various posts about video calibration. I have a few questions:

1. Which calibration disc is best; DVE, D-Avia, Avio Pro, or another? Thus far I have used the THX Optimizer on the Star Wars II dvd?

2.Will I need to adjust the chroma, gamma, etc. the 2910 manual covers?

3. Will I need to go into the service menu?

Sorry about all the questions; but I'm trying to learn.

Thanks.

Not sure I understand why the HDMI setting doesn't matter when using 480p. I use the HDMI/Format button to select 480p and the HDMI/DVI Select button to select HDMI Y Cb Cr. I have to select something on the HDMMIDVI Select (it's either OFF, which I don't want, DVI which I don't want or one of the 2 HDMI settings). Are you saying that it doesn't make a difference? I thought I had read on these boards that it might, and I "thought" the Y Cb Cr looked better when I swithced back and forth. Of course, if it doesn't matter then it was just my brain making me think it looked better :-)

Originally posted by phicar2
In my "testing" with the 2910 hooked up via HDMI to a mits dlp 52525, regardless of DVD (tried several action, drama, and animation - watched about 12 DVDs so far using this player) the best picture always was 480p Y Cr Cb. I also tried component cables and the HDMI was "clearly" superior. Not SD to HD type change but noticable improvement over HDMI.

As an aside, the major issues I've had while watching DVDs are that Panic Room Superbit has terrible green push (VERY bad) and the Matrix (not the new remastered version that comes in the new box set, the original release on DVD) looked very pixalated regardless of settings or connection used. Both of these we so bad that I'm considering returning the Denon for fear that these types of issues will show up in other movies.

Interesting that you would say that.....seems confusing to me though. At 1080i, the Faroudja processor is able to grab the raw 480 lines and scale them by 2 and then use the algorithms to fill in the 1/4 change (thus the 2.25 scale factor from 480 to 1080)....in 720, the processor is doing the brunt of the work to fill in the 1/2 increase of resolution.

granted that the Faroudja processor does a suberb job at it, but I don't know how well it would do it for 50% increase as compared to 25%.

I also noticed that for extremely fast moving shots (like the gun fights in star wars, etc), the 720p did considerably better than 480p.

Originally posted by rdkaz
I am trying to setup my dvd player; which is connected to a Panny DLP via HDMI; and have read various posts about video calibration. I have a few questions:

1. Which calibration disc is best; DVE, D-Avia, Avio Pro, or another? Thus far I have used the THX Optimizer on the Star Wars II dvd?

2.Will I need to adjust the chroma, gamma, etc. the 2910 manual covers?

3. Will I need to go into the service menu?

Sorry about all the questions; but I'm trying to learn.

Thanks.

1: All are good, though the THX one is the least complete.
2: If you are using HDMI or DVI, chroma, gamma, etc. are allegedly "disabled". You can change the values but according to Denon, they have no impact over a digital connection, according to the manual. I cannot speak to what your TV let's you adjust, or not.
3: I've not read through the entire thread yet, so I may have missed some info on this topic, but it doesn't sound like it. (On the other hand, to do a complete calibration of most TVs, you *will* need to go into the service manual -- and by "you" I mean the ISF tech you hire.)

(I'm happy to be corrected, if I'm wrong about the above items. In particular, the lack of gamma control via DVI is a little annoying.... so I'd love to know that I am wrong.)

The first question you need to answer is why do I want to calibrate my display. Some people are happy with the default settings, some adjust by eye and others start using some sort of calibrated standards. Calibration with standards can also be done to different levels also. One level is to set the basic picture controls, another to set any advanced controls and the last is to set service menu controls. Now even the new digital video DVD players, like the 2910, also require its controls to be understood and set.

Everyone will have a different opinion and desire on how deep into calibration one must do to get the best picture possible. Plus, the higher levels of calibration with standard will require measurement equipment so there is addition cost and time.

So your question is not an easy one to answer but I can tell you what I do to calibrate my Panasonic AE500 projector for use with the 2910 and DVI ouput...

First I set the DVD player's HDMI/DVI output to Normal (some displaces might need Expanded), the Picture Adjust - Set - Picture Level to 0 IRE. All other DVD settings are at their defaults.

I did some research and have read that the Natural Picture mode with the color Temp set to -1 provides a near 6500k picture for the 500 (not perfect, but close). To determine this requires a light meter like a Smart III Analyzer, some software and test patterns, which I don't have so I just trust this is a good setting for my display too.

Now I calibrate the 500's brightness, contrast and sharpness with AVIA. The 500's Color and Tint controls are de-activated when using DVI due to the digital nature of the video signal so no adjustment can be made there.

The 500 has a Advanced Picture Menu where you can adjust the gamma and RGB levels. Since I don't have the Smart III analyzer, I don't make any adjustments in that menu. I have been told that Gamma is a hard adjustment to make because the standard for gamma is not widely agreed upon (some agree it is 2.2) and that it is almost accepted you adjust as you see fit. Some people like darker blacks and whiter whites. You can find a lot of treads which talk about Gamma. After changing the gamma curves, re-verify the brightness and contrast settings.

Now that we are into these digital displays, calibration has become more difficult. Hopefully over time, the procedure will get easier but for now it can be very intimidating. It has taken me 6 to 9 months to find my setting that has made me feel good about my picture. Maybe, if I had bought the picture analyzer it would have been faster.

Good luck in finding your magic picture settings that allow you to sit back and say "WOW", that is a really nice picture.

Originally posted by ssabripo
Interesting that you would say that.....seems confusing to me though. At 1080i, the Faroudja processor is able to grab the raw 480 lines and scale them by 2 and then use the algorithms to fill in the 1/4 change (thus the 2.25 scale factor from 480 to 1080)....in 720, the processor is doing the brunt of the work to fill in the 1/2 increase of resolution.

granted that the Faroudja processor does a suberb job at it, but I don't know how well it would do it for 50% increase as compared to 25%.

I also noticed that for extremely fast moving shots (like the gun fights in star wars, etc), the 720p did considerably better than 480p.

Well, it's confusing to me too :-) I fully expected either the 1080 or the 720 to be "better" buts that's not what I've experienced so far. Reading a ton on these boards the only explanation I have been able to come up with is that it may have to do with how my TV (the mits 52525) is processing what it recieves. Since the mits does an a to d conversion on the hdmi input (again, i got this info form these boards) maybe that accounts for something? I've had several people try to evaluate this as well and EVERY person (OK, only 4 other people) said they prefered the 480p signal - and I didn't tell them ahead of time :-)

Originally posted by rdkaz
I am trying to setup my dvd player; which is connected to a Panny DLP via HDMI; and have read various posts about video calibration. I have a few questions:

1. Which calibration disc is best; DVE, D-Avia, Avio Pro, or another? Thus far I have used the THX Optimizer on the Star Wars II dvd?

2.Will I need to adjust the chroma, gamma, etc. the 2910 manual covers?

3. Will I need to go into the service menu?

Sorry about all the questions; but I'm trying to learn.

Thanks.

I agree with bucky,
I DO think you should make your next DVD purchase DVE or AVIA, the THX optimizer is a decent audio setup tool, but lacking all the good video set-up tools. I own the DVE disk and once you become familiar with the navigation aspect of the disk (which takes some time :) ) its great. I keep it right at my DVD players side at all times.....
If I were you I would stick with the factory DVD settings, only making sure the black enhancer is on, and that IRE is set to 0. Make all other adjustments using the display. If you decide to go into your display's service menu be sure to document all factory settings before you change them, see if there are any threads with tweaks and setup tips for your particular display. These threads also provide you with a means of support in case you forget something or need further clarification before making an adjustment. Do you "NEED" to go into the service menu, probably not. Will you have "FUN" in the service menu, most definently, as long as your careful at first and learn how to navigate through settings before getting all crazy and changing things. I know I have sufficently improved my PQ enough to justify going onto the service menu and doing some tweaking so I am all for it, just be patient while your doing it and pay close attention to what your doing and what effect it's having on your display. It can be very time consuming, but well worth it in the end !! I also think you end up learning alot more about your display and the way it functions by accessing the service menu. You now have the power !!! :D :D :D

Ok all you guys who already have their 2910, I just found out that my Sammy 5674, Denon 3805S receiver is in, Comcast even has the Mot 6412 HD DVR available for installation here in Portland OR and now I find out that my Denon 2910S (silver) is on @#%!##$ backorder. What??!!

anyone else having trouble getting their 2910S unit???

M

posted by Steve_Lazarus
If I were you I would stick with the factory DVD settings, only making sure the black enhancer is on, and that IRE is set to 0.

Steve, I think this will forever be a source of confusion for me. I have read more than I ever thought I would about black levels and my understanding (as meager as it is) is that enabling "Enhanced" for HDMI applies to digital only and the IRE setting applies to analog (i.e. component) only.

But I can attest to the fact that with my Sam 5063, outputting via HDMI at "Normal", and then lowering the IRE from 7.5 to 0 does darken the picture. But once you set the Denon with whatever combination of black level settings you want and then calibrate brightness with DVE, aren't you at the same point no matter what?

Nope :) I'm sorry to hear about your delay but it looks like your going to have a sweet set-up !! enjoy ! :) While your waiting for the 2910 go look at some audio racks or towers to highlight your setup :) :) that's always fun....

Originally posted by bruce73
Steve, I think this will forever be a source of confusion for me. I have read more than I ever thought I would about black levels and my understanding (as meager as it is) is that enabling "Enhanced" for HDMI applies to digital only and the IRE setting applies to analog (i.e. component) only.

But I can attest to the fact that with my Sam 5063, outputting via HDMI at "Normal", and then lowering the IRE from 7.5 to 0 does darken the picture. But once you set the Denon with whatever combination of black level settings you want and then calibrate brightness with DVE, aren't you at the same point no matter what?

You said it yourself and I will second that IRE does apply to HDMI/DVI, you seen it's effects as have I. The only settings that fall under "Pic Adjust" that do not apply for HDMI & DVI are Sharpness MID/HI, Chroma Delay and Gamma correction..... The reason you want to have it set at zero (IMO) before you calibrate is that it washes out black to much making it harder to calibrate contrast/brightness to an acceptable level. But remember that's me and my display.

For those of you with the latest firmware for the 2910 -- were you having a pixel cropping issue before and if so, did the latest firmware fix this?

Thanks.

I had the July 2004 firmware and saw a single pixel missing on the left side of the screen when connected via DVI at 720p to a Sanyo Z2 using the AVIA pixel cropping test pattern.

Note that the DVE overscan pattern *always* shows a little bit missing on the top, that AVIA shows as present. I assume the AVIA is correct.

Question re Firmware upgrade:

Just got my CD in the mail to upgrade my 2910 firmware to ESS-6720-5. The instructions say "Connect a monitor to the composite or S-Video ouput terminal". My tv monitor is connected to the 2910 HDMI-HDMI. Does this mean I need to change things and connect it via composite, or can I just leave the HDMI-HDMI connections as is?

I was confused by this also. Wound up just using my existing DVI - DVI connection and had no problem. I think they just want/need *any* video connection.
-Bob

Originally posted by dvdguru
In normal mode my blacks were always a bit greenish when comparing dvi to component. Now my dvi blacks are solid (I also ran the upgrade disc from denon this week). I am running the 2910 via dvi to a Panasonic TH50PHD7UY plasma and now love the picture much more than I did the other day before switching video modes. So, if you're not so pleased with the dvi picture you're getting and are in normal video mode now, give it a try and see how you like it.

What I've found is that it's much easier to get a very eye-pleasing picture thru dvi with the video in enhanced mode. (without going into the service menu, that is...) Lemme know what you think... [/B]

DVDGuru,

I have the exact same setup and the exact same experience as you, despite the acres of postings here on how the "enhanced" settings clips black and white levels. I've had the opposite experience connecting the 2910 to the Panny via DVI - better blacks and better black details are obtainable via the enhanced setting and proper calibration. Just confirmed this again with a superbit edition of Spiderman 2. There's a scene in Peter's backyard with lots of black detail - and *no way* to get at it in "normal" mode besides cranking brightness up so high you have a light grey picture.

Out of curiosity, are you running the 2910 at 720p or 1080i mode? What are your calibrated picture and brightness settings? At 720p, I have picture at -19 and brightness at -18.

Regards,

Bob

Is it possible that at HD resolution, most displays expect the PC range of brightness values (ie, enhanced mode) and that at SD resolutions, they expect Video range (ie, normal mode)? Reason I ask: my understanding is that the luminance scale begins lower and ends higher for the HD standard.

where did you get the CD? Directly from Denon? And which one ?? I will probably have the CD before the 2910S, which is backordered!!

meh

Originally posted by BobDyl
I was confused by this also. Wound up just using my existing DVI - DVI connection and had no problem. I think they just want/need *any* video connection.
-Bob \

Thanks much for the reasurrance--don't want to screw things up! I will just leave the HDMI-HDMI connection as it when doing the up-grade. Bill

Guys,

is it just me, or is the 2910 just not impressive enough in image quality as I expected for a $700 player?

The picture quality on this new DENON is not nearly as SMOOTH as either the 2900 or 2800mk2 for that matter. I assume that this is because the 2900 and 2800mk2 use SILIcON images technology and the 2910 uses DCDi by Faroudja. I also noticed alot of video noise with the 2910 which i NEVER EVEr saw with the 2900. Another problem was when a movie scene was black i could always notice BLOCK looking artifacts, and this is really making me think hard about returning the player..

I would love some feedback, thoughts, etc....

What type of display do you have attached and by what means (DVI, HDMI, Component)?

Originally posted by ssabripo
Guys,

is it just me, or is the 2910 just not impressive enough in image quality as I expected for a $700 player?

The picture quality on this new DENON is not nearly as SMOOTH as either the 2900 or 2800mk2 for that matter. I assume that this is because the 2900 and 2800mk2 use SILIcON images technology and the 2910 uses DCDi by Faroudja. I also noticed alot of video noise with the 2910 which i NEVER EVEr saw with the 2900. Another problem was when a movie scene was black i could always notice BLOCK looking artifacts, and this is really making me think hard about returning the player..

I would love some feedback, thoughts, etc....


In all honesty I don't think the player is your problem, I have had my 2910 for right around 2 months and have not seen any macro-blocking at all
All I do is rent/buy DVD's over here in Italy due to the fact I only get 6 AFN (Armed Forces Network) channels. So needless to say, name a DVD and I've probably watched it.
I have also spent hours calibrating/tweaking my DVD/Display combo and think I've obtained the best possible picture available (For the specific two I own).
Am I pleased?, I don't think I could be any more impressed then I am right now until HD-DVD hits the market. Not only for PQ, but audio as well (That is unless I get into the 3910).
In all honesty what kind of PQ improvement did you think you were going to see when comparing the 2900 to the 2910?? Both provide outstanding PQ and you'd be hard pressed to find something that really stands out. I think the route you should take is have someone calibrate the display, anytime you switch to another input device (High/Mid-End/Long-Term) this should be considered. I think once you get that MB your seeing taken care of, you should and will be very pleased..JMO
Regards,
Steve

Originally posted by nathan_h
... my understanding is that the luminance scale begins lower and ends higher for the HD standard.

This is my understanding as well, i.e. regular SD (NTSC) uses 7.5 IRE as the black level and HD broadcasting uses 0 IRE.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. However, when I calibrate my TV's brightness when it's on an HD broadcast by simpling eliminating noise in the black bars, it's ends up at the same level (or a couple of notches lower) that I would have setting the Denon to 0 IRE.

I'm not sure, though, what bearing this has on the Normal vs. Enhanced debate.

Really, you don't even need a video source at all, as long as you give it like 5 min . The only thing you're looking for is for the 'DONE' message that's on screen, and not on the player display.

You'll see Erasing/Writing flash on and off on the player itself.

Originally posted by millerwill
Question re Firmware upgrade:

Just got my CD in the mail to upgrade my 2910 firmware to ESS-6720-5. The instructions say "Connect a monitor to the composite or S-Video ouput terminal". My tv monitor is connected to the 2910 HDMI-HDMI. Does this mean I need to change things and connect it via composite, or can I just leave the HDMI-HDMI connections as is?

Originally posted by ssabripo
Guys,

is it just me, or is the 2910 just not impressive enough in image quality as I expected for a $700 player?

The picture quality on this new DENON is not nearly as SMOOTH as either the 2900 or 2800mk2 for that matter. I assume that this is because the 2900 and 2800mk2 use SILIcON images technology and the 2910 uses DCDi by Faroudja. I also noticed alot of video noise with the 2910 which i NEVER EVEr saw with the 2900. Another problem was when a movie scene was black i could always notice BLOCK looking artifacts, and this is really making me think hard about returning the player..

I would love some feedback, thoughts, etc....


I had the same experience when I first used my 2910 at 720p and compared the picture to my 2200 at component 480p. The 2910's picture looked grainer and maybe more pixelated then what I was used to with the 2200.

After doing some comparisons between the two players I have concluded that the reason the 2200 and the 2910's component 480p looked smoother is because it was slightly softer then the up-converted DVI 720p picture. That softness is what gives the picture, at least for me, that smooth look. But now that I am use to the 720p picture, I am seeing and noticing more detail then in either player's 480p component outs.

The two analogies I can related to on this is how sharpness adds noise to a picture so that it "looks" better to the untrained eye and the other is how some people defocus a front projector slightly to reduce the pixelation of the picture, again adding resolution noise to get a smoother picture.

My recommendation is to spend some time to get use to the "new" picture quality and see if you start appreciating the increased detail like I have. WIth a good DVD, the upconverted picture gives HD a run for it's money. At least with my Panasonic 500.

Out of couriosity, will I notice any difference by upconverting the picture to 720p using Denon 2910 via DVI connected to TH42PWD6UY Panasonic Plasma? As I understand it, the plasma will downconvert to 480p again, so it does not make any sense to do it does it?

Will running 480p via DVI make the picture nicer then component or I'm going to only notice a major difference by doing the 720p onto the HDTV panel such as 42/50PHD7UY?

ssabripo, I have the 2910 at 720p via DVI to a Sammy 50" DLP and had the DVI input ISF'ed. The picture is stunning to say the least. Very detailed. Colors are very true and as bucky 63 said, I have yet to see any macroblocking and some DVD's come close to approaching HD.

Jazzcat

From my humble knowledge you have your 2910 set up just right, that is you are matching the DVD upscaling to the native resolution of your Sammy, 720 to 720. This is good to hear, that is how nice your PQ is. My Sammy 5674, Denon 2910 and Denon AVR3805 will be installed on Thursday. Can't wait to see what you are seeing now!!

Mismatched

Anyone looking for a Silver 2910 (2910-S), Crutchfields has three in stock (well, two now :) ). They even gave me a generic $40 off code to use!

Does anybody know the remote control code for the 2910?

My 2910 is hooked up via HDMI to a Panasonic AE700 projector at 720P. Most of my widescreen DVD's looked fine, but I noticed that some W/S DVD's such as True Lies and The Waterboy looked slightly "flattened" vertically. Even the AVIA test disc exhibited this. I tried every setting that I could think of on both the 2910 and AE700 to correct the image but to no avail.

However, when I changed to component video cables, the flattening "problem" went away. But then I could only choose the 480I output from the 2910 instead of the more desirable 720P. (I also noticed that the image was brighter via component video at 480i than with HDMI at 720P). I already tried a new set of HDMI cables but no change.

My questions are : Why do some discs show the "flattening effect" with HDMI but not with component video, is there anything I can do about it and still use HDMI, and why would the component video pic be brighter than HDMI ? Please excuse me if this has asked before, I'm rather new to this, so any help would be very appreciated.

--- John

Cannot agree more on bucky63's comment n I find myself very happy with the 2910.





Originally posted by bucky63
I had the same experience when I first used my 2910 at 720p and compared the picture to my 2200 at component 480p. The 2910's picture looked grainer and maybe more pixelated then what I was used to with the 2200.

After doing some comparisons between the two players I have concluded that the reason the 2200 and the 2910's component 480p looked smoother is because it was slightly softer then the up-converted DVI 720p picture. That softness is what gives the picture, at least for me, that smooth look. But now that I am use to the 720p picture, I am seeing and noticing more detail then in either player's 480p component outs.

The two analogies I can related to on this is how sharpness adds noise to a picture so that it "looks" better to the untrained eye and the other is how some people defocus a front projector slightly to reduce the pixelation of the picture, again adding resolution noise to get a smoother picture.

My recommendation is to spend some time to get use to the "new" picture quality and see if you start appreciating the increased detail like I have. WIth a good DVD, the upconverted picture gives HD a run for it's money. At least with my Panasonic 500.

Originally posted by jammin25
My 2910 is hooked up via HDMI to a Panasonic AE700 projector at 720P. Most of my widescreen DVD's looked fine, but I noticed that some W/S DVD's such as True Lies and The Waterboy looked slightly "flattened" vertically. Even the AVIA test disc exhibited this. I tried every setting that I could think of on both the 2910 and AE700 to correct the image but to no avail.

--- John

If I recall right, both AVIA and True Lies are not anamorphic. It sounds like your display locks into anamorphic mode via HDMI, but not via component, input.

Mismatched, I have the Denon 3805 as well. You will be very pleased with that combination. Watched Finding Nemo last night and it was absolutely gorgeous! The SVS sub was ruffling my shirt with the sub scene and Darlas tapping scene :D Absolutely no evidence of macroblocking either.

If you haven't had your DVI input ISF'ed I would highly recommend it as it brought my Sammy to life!

Just picked up the 2910 last night and I have to say I am very pleased so far. I had the highly rated Panny XP30 and I think the PQ of the 2910 is more 3D when paired w/the Sammy 5674. I was agonizing what to pair with my Krell and tried the Showcase DVD as well, but it was not only expensive but very slow.

I need to let the DACS break in, but played an SACD last night and thought it sounded pretty darn good. So I think I made the right decision going with the 2910 vs the 3910 or even the 5910 when it comes out next year. I figure this should get me through the next year until the HDDVD or Blue Ray player issues get sorted out.

Also in reading through this thread I noticed that there is a firmware upgrade for this player. Mine has an August build and wonder if it already has the current version. Looks like I will be calling Denon next week to be sure. Not sure if I missed it in reading through this thread, but is there an easy way to tell what the current version is?

Can anyone comment on redbook CD quality of the 2910 vs the 2900?

I posted a few weeks ago abouit a problem I was having with the signal from the HDMI output on my 2910 cutting in and out, which was driving me insane. Crutchfield offered to send me a repalcement unit, which I'm still waiting on (it's scheduled to ship out on 12/10 or so). However, after closely reading posts from other people who had the problem, I found a totally easy way to fix it: Simply make sure your TV has its HDMI input selected before you turn on the player. Doing that made the HDMI connection work beautifully once again.

Is this simply what everyone is supposed to be doing with HDMI players, or have others been able to get the connection to work without following this procedure? The player manual says nothing about it, and a 3910 owner I PM'd with said he'd had the flashing HDMI problem on two units and the Denon techs he talked to said they had no clue what was causing the problem but that they would look into it).

If this is indeed the way HDMI is supposed to work and I just didn't realize it, I may just cancel the replacement player from Crutchfield. In the meantime, I'm going to engage the player's auto power off mode and rejigger my Pronto config so that selecting the DVD player triggers the TV's HDMI input first, followed by a delay of a few seconds before sending a power on code to the player.

Thanks everyone. I think that I am settled on the 2910 and will just have to avoid Arnold's movies!! LOL

On this HDMI issue apparently solved by setting TV input to HDMI before turning on the 2910 player...

anyone seen this as a solution, as important, as necessary? not doubting andrew in NYC but wondering whether this might apply to only on particular TV?? Then again apparently another person has had a similar problem of cutting out on HDMI connection???

I just tested my HDMI and I cant get it to drop at all, even after switching inputs so far. I had a 5900 last year that dropped the DVI when inputs were switched, but dont seem to have that issue w/the 2910.

Pretty impressive little player. I was doing some A/B's w/my Krell HTS 7.1 and TAS and the 7.1 analog from the player in stereo mode and it sounds pretty good.

Originally posted by mismatched
On this HDMI issue apparently solved by setting TV input to HDMI before turning on the 2910 player...

anyone seen this as a solution, as important, as necessary? not doubting andrew in NYC but wondering whether this might apply to only on particular TV?? Then again apparently another person has had a similar problem of cutting out on HDMI connection???

The TV in question is a Sony KD-34XBR960. Dunno what TVs the other guys who had this problem were using. I guess I'll get to find out for myself whether or not it's the TV or my 2910 unit that is causing the problem, since I received an email from Crutchfield about half an hour ago saying that the replacement 2910 is on its way.

andrew:

Just had another sync issue with HDMI, similar to the one I posted previously (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4691820#post4691820). This time I started to play an SVCD on the Denon via component/interlaced (so that I could use Zoom mode) but it had a steady jerkiness to it. When I turned off the HDMI/DVI output, it stopped. Re-enabled HDMI output, it started up again. Switched over to HDMI and could see that it was trying to sync, but couldn't, and that was what was causing the SVCD playback problem. Finally, I powered off/on the TV and that allowed the unit to resync with the TV and the SVCD played fine on component, both with HDMI enabled or disabled.

Bottom line: I don't think it's the Denon or the TV, but how the HDMI handshake has to take place. I'm not clear on how exactly it goes down or what series of steps might screw it up, but, as you mentioned, power cycling the TV seems to be the trick. BTW, I have a Samsung HLP-5063.

Does the 2910 pillar box 4:3 material on a 16:9 display?

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
Adjusted overscan (5%-H)(-5%-V) which I actually made through the Denon as compared to the Service menu which I found to be very convenient for a change. :)


Steve, how exactly did you do an overscan adjustment through the Denon? Is there a service menu of some kind for the Denon player? Also, I have a KP-51WS510, very similar to your 57-inch. Any suggestions on service menu tweaks I should look at, like the UBLK setting?
Thanks!

Originally posted by CJCerny1
Does the 2910 pillar box 4:3 material on a 16:9 display?

Yes -- BUT you have to change a setting in the setup menu (sqeeze mode) manually, and then switch it back, when you want to watch 16:9 material again.

Unfortunately, even with the latest firmware, the 2910 crops approx. 3 pixels from the left and 1 pixel from the right side of the image when using DVI/HDMI (720p or 1080i) to my JVC HX1 DILA projector. Is there any way to fix this at all from the service menu or some other secret method?? Component works fine with no pixel cropping.

Originally posted by RBats
Is there any way to fix this at all from the service menu or some other secret method?? Component works fine with no pixel cropping.

How does one access the service menu for the 2910, presuming there is one? And what kind of tweaks can you make there?

Originally posted by bruce73
andrew:

Just had another sync issue with HDMI, similar to the one I posted previously (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4691820#post4691820). This time I started to play an SVCD on the Denon via component/interlaced (so that I could use Zoom mode) but it had a steady jerkiness to it. When I turned off the HDMI/DVI output, it stopped. Re-enabled HDMI output, it started up again. Switched over to HDMI and could see that it was trying to sync, but couldn't, and that was what was causing the SVCD playback problem. Finally, I powered off/on the TV and that allowed the unit to resync with the TV and the SVCD played fine on component, both with HDMI enabled or disabled.

Bottom line: I don't think it's the Denon or the TV, but how the HDMI handshake has to take place. I'm not clear on how exactly it goes down or what series of steps might screw it up, but, as you mentioned, power cycling the TV seems to be the trick. BTW, I have a Samsung HLP-5063.

I'm thinking maybe it is my player, since I definitely spoke too soon about the problem being solved: When I sat down to watch a movie last night, I made sure to have the TV set to the HDMI input when I powered up the player...and I got the same cut-out and flicker that I had before, only now the HDMI indicator on the front panel wasn't blinking too. I'm very happy with the 2910's component picture, certainly, but HDMI was a big part of why I laid out the long green for the player. My fingers are tightly crossed in the hope that the replacement unit from Crutchfield will make the problem a thing of the past...

Originally posted by nathan_h
Yes -- BUT you have to change a setting in the setup menu (sqeeze mode) manually, and then switch it back, when you want to watch 16:9 material again.

If you have a Philips Pronto, it's very easy to program a one-button macro to turn on the squeeze mode. It probably wouldn't be too hard to do it with many other universal remotes, too.

Originally posted by andrewjnyc
...and I got the same cut-out and flicker that I had before, only now the HDMI indicator on the front panel wasn't blinking too.

FYI, I also noticed that the HDMI indicator on the front panel was not blinking when I had the sync problem, which seems to indicate that a connection was recognized but not being completed for some reason (it would be helpful to know how the HDMI protocol works, step-by-step...guess I have a Google search project for the afternoon...:rolleyes: ).

Did you try powering off/on the TV last night, and, if so, did that take care of the problem? And am I right in assuming this issue is only when first powering on the Denon, not a dropping out of video during playback, which, if not a loose connection, would be a major cause for concern?

Keep us posted on how the replacement behaves.

Originally posted by andrewjnyc
If you have a Philips Pronto, it's very easy to program a one-button macro to turn on the squeeze mode. It probably wouldn't be too hard to do it with many other universal remotes, too.

Good point. I'm using a Harmony Remote, which I think can do such things, as well.

EDIT

In fact, it's possible but not 100% elegant. It makes "SQUEEZE MODE ON" (for example) an "Activity" in Harmony-speak, like "Watch TV" or similar. Here is what support suggested:
Unfortunately you cannot program macros on the 600 series of remotes.
However, there is something we could try in order send a series of commands; programming a “Generic Activity”
Please follow these steps:
1. From your Harmony home page.
2. Click on “Add an activity”, “Add one activity”
3. Click on “Utility” and select “Generic Activity”
4. Select “Custom” and click “Next”
5. Select the device you would like to send commands to and click “Next”
6. Select “I don’t need to send the input on my xxx”
7. You’ll be presented with the “Choosing custom actions section” page. Here you’ll be able to program a series of commands to be sent to your TV.

Select the Device you want to add an action for. Then select either 'when the activity starts' or 'when the activity stops' and click 'Add actions' to add an operation to the Device.

8. From the next page, select the required IR, function, or input from the drop down lists. Click on “Next”
9. You will be returned to the previous page and will see that the new operation has been added.
10. When you’re finished adding custom actions, click on “Save” to save the changes and the “Next” to go back to your Harmony home page.

You could rename the activity so it’s easier to identify
Please remember to update your remote for the changes to take effect.

When you select that activity it will perform the actions that you programmed it for.

Originally posted by nathan_h
If I recall right, both AVIA and True Lies are not anamorphic. It sounds like your display locks into anamorphic mode via HDMI, but not via component, input.

The problem with non-anamorphic movies with displays that lock into 16:9 mode when the incoming signal is 720p or 1080i is that you can't display the movie correctly because if you leave the player in 720p and 1080i the picture will be flat and stretched and if you use the squeeze mode the picture is has the correct aspect ratio but is in the center of a the 4:3 window.

To correctly display these types of movies, switch the DVI/HDMI output to 480p or use the component 480p outs. Then you will be able to use the display's aspect ratio adjustments to zoom the picture to fill the 16:9 window.

Originally posted by opolione
Can anyone comment on redbook CD quality of the 2910 vs the 2900?

See the following articles for some reviews that talk about the audio performance of the 2900 and the 2200 which is basically the same as the 2910.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=542

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=493&page_number=1

In a nut shell, the 2900 is a better CD player then either the 2200 or 2910 is. The only thing the 2910 can do that the 2900 can't is decode HDCD.

I finally noticed some macroblocking on a dvd (LEON - The Professional R3) and decided to play around with all settings to see if anything effected it.

One of the things I did which I did not expect to do anything was to go into picture settings and UP all the settings - Brightness Contrast Hue etc. Anyway, to make this brief, I found that increasing the HUE control in the picture settings of the 2910 to 3 eliminated the macroblocking, changing it to anything less brought it was back with a vengence.

Why would the Hue control effect this? Does it change some voltage somewhere that is triggering the problem in the first place or something?

I would be interested if someone who has a known MB scene try this and see if its just a fluke on this dvd or whether it does the same for others? (Provided its not a DVD with a known issue in this regard)

Meanwhile I am quite happly to leave that setting at 3 and adjust for it elsewhere!

Bill

Just got mine from Hi Fi Buys late last week. Back ordered for at least three weeks. My D1 with all its' problems finally died. 5 movies so far, no macroblocking on my calibrated samsung 437 with DVI. I'm getting the "5" version of the firmware soon. I expected a Nov man date would have the latest firmware but it doesn't.

My biggest issue with it is the normal/enhanced and 7.5/0 settings. I know we've discussed this earlier in the thread. In theory, I understand what the more experienced members have said about those setting. And initially I would say that they are wrong but I think I'm coming around to leaving them at normal/7.5. Using enhanced/0 and using DVE to touch up the picture, there are more blacks in the picture, a welcome with my bright DLP picture. But what I think it does though is that it cruches very dark greys into the the now larger black "zone", leading to more perceived detail, definition, contrast, and color to the picture. Using normal/7.5 and re-touching the picture leaves a less contrasty, more washed out picture with fewer black zone areas. I initially thought that this was less desireable, but now I think the picture is better overall that way. More natural, less enhanced, less like a cartoon. The differences are subtle though. Perhaps I'll change my mind when the new firmware comes in.