dr_Jason,

Just as an FYI, I have a Samsung HLP-5085W with a Denon 2910 (via DVI) and I'm using the "Normal" and "0 IRE" settings. I calibrated with AVIA and DVE based on these settings and I'm getting good results.

Here's a weird thing: Enhanced (versus Normal) black appears to not only crush blacks a little but also lower the abosolute floor for black. That is, on the "video black" test pattern on DVE, it gets darker when the player is set to enhanced (720p via DVI into a Sanyo Z2).

A similar thing happens when choosing 0 IRE instead of 7.5 IRE, but without the "crushing". That is, no detail appears to be lost, but the level of video black is lowered.

720p or 1080i??
I have a Denon 2910 with a Toshiba 51HX83. The Denon is hooked up through my DVI. I always thought that the 1080i setting was supposed to be the best, but was recently told by an "expert" that I always should set it at 720p. Which is correct? Does it differ, and if so, how? Also, I notice a stutter or jitter occassionally at 1080i. Any better at 720p?

Originally posted by Greg Labate
720p or 1080i??
I have a Denon 2910 with a Toshiba 51HX83. The Denon is hooked up through my DVI. I always thought that the 1080i setting was supposed to be the best, but was recently told by an "expert" that I always should set it at 720p. Which is correct? Does it differ, and if so, how? Also, I notice a stutter or jitter occassionally at 1080i. Any better at 720p?

You want to avoid scaling twice, if possible, so set the DVD player to the native scan rate of the Toshiba, which appears to be 1080i. Second best would be to ouput 480p and let the Toshiba do the scaling. I would guess that 720p would be third best, because the DVD player upconverts to 720p and then the TV downconverts to 1080i.

Bottom line, however, is how it looks to you. If you cannot see a difference, then it doesn't matter for you. If you see a difference, choose the one you like the best.

For example, I have my DVD player scale to 720p because that is what my projector's native scan rate is. But my HD cable box I leave it set at 1080i, because the projector does a better job at upscaling to 720p from 1080i than the cable box does (according to what my eyes see).

It seems that on a select few DVDs, my 2910 shakes feverishly. For exmaple, last night I put in a disc from the BBC series Yes, Minister, and it made a fair bit of noise, and was vibrating rather violently as it played.

I thought I was going to have to take the player in and exahnge it today BUT upon trying other discs I realized that most were playing okay, but each time I put in the Yes, Minister disc and one or two others, the player would shake as it played them.

Anyone else seen this?

Originally posted by Greg Labate
720p or 1080i??
I have a Denon 2910 with a Toshiba 51HX83. The Denon is hooked up through my DVI. I always thought that the 1080i setting was supposed to be the best, but was recently told by an "expert" that I always should set it at 720p. Which is correct? Does it differ, and if so, how? Also, I notice a stutter or jitter occassionally at 1080i. Any better at 720p?

Greg

although not an expert myself several such icons have informed me that the best rule of thumg (is that redundant?) is tos output from your DVD player at the same native resolution as your Monitor/TV, which I believe in your case and most is 720p. Try it and you will probably like it. At a high end store here in Portland OR they demonstrated using "Gladiator" the Denon 3910 on a sweet 70" Sony XBR and output at 720p vs 1080p. 720p was the clear winner!

M

spell check thung should = thumb , duh!

@^@#$ thumg = thumb, aw heck you know what I mean...

Whats wierd is that My 36 inch Sony is nat 1080I.

When I use my Denon 2910 in 720P the picture looks good without and flickering/Jittering. But when I switch to 1080I, the picture gets sharper and looks more like HD quaility but there flickering/Jittering in the background. I noticed the same thing when I owned the Samsung HD841 however the samsung did not have as tight and clean as a picture as the Denon. Also the Samsung seemed to have more artifacts as well and had way to much of a Black crush issue.

Can any one explain why it flickers in 1080I, its not very apparent but more noticeable when you hit pause and look at the screen.
Also I notice a slight green push on my Denon as well, I adjusted the hue -1 and -1 on my TV it helped but there is still a definete green push on some black scenes on movies. I like the player for its sound, picture quaility and features put for 700 bucks I am not quite sure its worth it yet.

I am debating whether to try the Sony 975 as I have heard that does not have black crush problems either and because of its cheaper price tag. Has anyone does a comparison between the 975 and the Denon 2910?

thx,
Claude

what is your connection type??

I am using DVI to DVI (monster 6ft cable).

Originally posted by dvdguru

(I also ran the upgrade disc from denon this week).


What is the upgrade disk for? Does it solve the slight green depression problem, someone please explain what its for and where i can get it?

Mine shakes too and my local shop has ordered me a replacment due in soon. If this continues with the new one I don't know what I'm going to do. Like yours, mine only happens on certain dvds and is usually during only the first 2 or 3 chapters. Then when the laser gets to later chapters on the dvd the player quiets down.

This happened on my older toshiba dvd player but it was after 3 years and got worse and worse. Some of the dvds mine shutters with is the first Austin Powers, Blade and The Matrix. On some dvds it doesn't do it at all so this is confusing. NOTE that the 3 movies listed above are "studio related" in that they're from warner and new line. Maybe the way those 2 studios make their dvds has something to do with it??? Anyone else with these problems with these 3 specific dvds? I'll check dvds from so other studios and see if it happens again but I can't keep this player if the new player exhibits the same thing as the dvd player is in a closet on a shelf. When it shakes I can hear the shaking sound in the walls all the way in the livingroom!

Yes, the upgrade cd fixes the y/c chroma problem and the green push problem from what I've read. All I know is the picture looks good lol

Originally posted by dvdguru
Yes, the upgrade cd fixes the y/c chroma problem and the green push problem from what I've read. All I know is the picture looks good lol

Thanks...Where do I need to go to get it and how do I use it?

Sorry for all the questions, I am a newbie here.

Claude

The email address and/or phone# is somewhere in this thread. Do a search and it will come up. It takes around 5 days or so and will show up in the mail for free from Denon.

dvdguru:

Has the problem gotten worse or was it always loud enough you could hear it in another room? Mine isn't that extreme but it's annoying and if it got worse it would be a bigger problem. I'm torn about whether to exchange it. I have a few weeks to decide.

FYI, the build date on mine is July (or August?) 04, upgraded with the latest Denon firmware (from Denon). Is your build date substantially different? If we're the only ones with the problem and have a similar build date, that would inspire me to exchange it, asap.

I think mine has had it since the beginning but the local store is taking forever to get a replacement. What I'm going to do is when the new one comes in, check the store's demo model with these 3 dvds. If it does the same thing I'm going to have to try the 3910 or pioneer 59avi...I'm hoping the new one works out...

nathan_h:

The shaking you hear is most likely due to the DVD itself. Some discs' centers are not stamped perfectly in the center which will cause vibrations and shaking when played. Also, graphics printed on the disc which cause one portion of the disc to be heavier than others will also cause it to vibrate. The fact that it subsides after the first few chapters supports this as the rotational speed slows down the further from the center it gets.

This effect is even more marked when you place a CD-ROM in a high speed (32x or greater) drive. You will think a jet engine is about to take off with some discs. Unfortunately we live in a mass market world. But don't blame it on your DVD player. Blame it on the $.10 DVD you paid $25 for.

interesting....

this makes sense, but begs the question about why my $150 Pioneer doesn't have troubles like this... :-)

OK guys did a search and came up with the following, it seems that the last Firmware update I found was in July (from what I found). I came home and looked at my Denon 2910 and it stated that it was Manufactured in Sept 04. Does that mean I have the Firmware already installed on mine.

The main thing that I noticed is that I still have a little green push. I dropped the hue down to +2 on the DVD Player and -1 on my TV (to Reduce green Tint). I am using a Monster DVI to Dvi cable if that makes any difference. I still get a little green push (not much) but still enough to notice it again tonite. Any thing lower than that on the hue and the colors will start getting off (lean more towards bad flesh tones but still have a slight green push on some backgrounds.)

I really like this DVD Player but the green push is kinda unacceptable for this price range in my book.

Is there something else I should do or is there a newer firmware or will the firmware from july resolve this issue? I tried messing around with the chroma setting too and did not notice any differenece initially with the setting change.

If anyone has Starwars (Episode 1), play the first Opening sequence where the space ship is going to board the other ship. When you look at the stars in the background, you will notice, instead of it being a black background with white-ish Blue stars, I notice that the background has a slight green tint to it and the stars has a blue-ish/green-ish/white to it. I notice this green in other movies as well. Tonite the wife rented Bourne Supremecy and most of the scenes and Buildings in the movie had a green tint, Even when light was hitting the actors faces in the movie it had a green tint. I have a Sony 36in HTDV and also set the Color Option to Cool (which should give the whites a blue-ish white look) and the green is still there slightly less, but there none the less.

Any suggestions, would be greatly apprecaited.

Also, what is the Gamma Settings for? I read the manual but still lost on what Gamma really does.

I did email Denon this afternoon but was told that it may took a few days before they respond so I wanted to see if anyone has had this issue and resolve it or maybe its as simple as fooling around with the correct setting (but so far no luck for me with the settings....unless I am doing something wrong)

Thx again,
Claude

To verify your firmware version:

1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit. (This is the REAL power button, not the standby one with the lighted disc around it.)

2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the fron to fht eunit, both at the same time.

3. Turn the power back onand continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.

4. After "LOADING" shows on the display, press the 3, 2, 6, 5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button.

You should then see the Firmware version on the unit's display.

The most recent firmware appears to be ESS-6720-5

Originally posted by nathan_h
To verify your firmware version:

1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit. (This is the REAL power button, not the standby one with the lighted disc around it.)

2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the fron to fht eunit, both at the same time.

3. Turn the power back onand continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.

4. After "LOADING" shows on the display, press the 3, 2, 6, 5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button.

You should then see the Firmware version on the unit's display.

The most recent firmware appears to be ESS-6720-5

You are the Freggin Man!!

I will check that out tonite. Does that new firmware supposed to fix the green push problem? Or what is the latest version resolve?

thx,
Claude

Check this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=477581

Guys I wanted to thank you all again,

I got home and checked my 2910. Its fairly new manufactured in Sept 04.
Anyways, I followed the instructions and it seemed that my latest firmware on the DVD Player is ESS 6720-4 with a "Make Day" of 831
So maybe the newer ESS 6720-5 will solve my green push problem. The guy from Denon sent the disk out today.

If this solves my green push problem, I will be thrilled to say the least.

Thx again fellas.
Claude

Please report back your findings.

Originally posted by nathan_h
Please report back your findings.

I definetly will.

2910 DVI into a Sony HS10 running Video GBR as the digital input format, checked all combinations and 720p or 1080i give the best picture with 1080i clearer and crisper.

Enhanced/0IRE or Enhanced/7.5IRE seems to be washed out - Normal/0IRE gives the best picture, but the blacks could be a bit better.

Would using the 2910 Hue adjustment be able to be provide better blacks.

2910 Software - emailed the Oz distributor and got this reply back, so for all you Aussies looks like we have got the latest firmware, but you need to beware that you possibly can't upgrade with the US firmware.


All DVD2910 we have been shipping since October already have the new software in them. If you wish to have your machine checked to see if it is the latest version for Australia please take your DVD2910 to JLS Electronics in Doncaster as they are the Victorian Authorised Service centre and if needed they can update your software.

Please note that the software for Australia is not the same as mentioned on US website as their software is for Zone 1 only

Originally posted by ozdvduser
2910 Software - emailed the Oz distributor and got this reply back, so for all you Aussies looks like we have got the latest firmware, but you need to beware that you possibly can't upgrade with the US firmware.

My 2910 bought in late November had old firmware. I reported the PAL chroma fault to Bosco at Audio Products (distributor). Then I got some story that they indeed can see the problem and that they would get a fix from Denon in a couple of weeks. Then they said they sent a disk down to JLS and I had to take it there on Monday and they did the firmware upgrade.

So I very much doubt the above "since October" statement.

I would check your firmware as stated elsewhere and see what it has. Mine had the -2 firmware and now has the -4.

I think they might be telling stories. I guess it all depends what they call "the latest" ;-)

Bill

Originally posted by btiltman
My 2910 bought in late November had old firmware. I reported the PAL chroma fault to Bosco at Audio Products (distributor). Then I got some story that they indeed can see the problem and that they would get a fix from Denon in a couple of weeks. Then they said they sent a disk down to JLS and I had to take it there on Monday and they did the firmware upgrade.

So I very much doubt the above "since October" statement.

I would check your firmware as stated elsewhere and see what it has. Mine had the -2 firmware and now has the -4.

I think they might be telling stories. I guess it all depends what they call "the latest" ;-)

Bill
Checked tonight when I got home - you're right it's got the -2 firmware. Seeing as JLS is just around the corner I'll ring them and arrange a time to take it in & get it upgraded.

Did you find that there was an improvement after you had upgraded to -4 firmware ??

I just checked mine n have the following reading :

ESS-6720-4
Make Day 831
DRV 030825
System 6768-2
DSP 6770

So, I think I have the -4 firmware n what is the difference from -5 ?

I talked to Denon HK n they said there will be no firmware upgrade for HK. So, can any of you folks in U.S. do me favor n ask Denon U.S., if the -5 firmware can be applied for unit sold in Hong Kong, n will not affect the multi-region function that was already in it. Thanks.

Besides the firmware n Make day of 8/31, do you guys know what do the rest of the info stands for. Just curious !!!

I know there has been some advice on HDMI and the 2910 but here is my specific problem and plea!

you 2910 guys might be able to help us out here:

Just got my new Samsung 5674 DLP installed and we tried to hook up my Denon 2910 DVD player via HDMI and my Comcast HD PVR via DVI-d. STB worked fine with awesome HD signals. DVD connection failed miserably in that the set was not detecting the video from the DVD player even with the Samsung set on HDMI. I then followed one post on the 2910 which said turn off the DVD player and set the Sammy to HDMI and then turn on the TV. However when we (a technician that installed the stuff) tried that the Sammy did not give HDMI as an option.

So we switched the STB to component video and the DVD player to DVI and the Sammy now did the video thing. We tried a DVI to HDMI cable for the STB but only the video comes thru not surprisingly.

So the techs from the store here in Portland OR are on this problem but I expect guys like you out there in AVS land can also help ...

Thanks in advance to anyone out there!!

mismatched

PS this is a loaner with the silver 2910 on backorder so I dont know when this particular 2910 was built and whether this HDMI problem might be a firmware issue.

mismatched:

If you're having sync problems via HDMI, leave the Denon turned on and power off/on the Samsung. This worked both times I had lost the sync between the two. I guess it has to do with how the "handshake" takes place with this type of connection.

bruce73

not a sync problem but rather no video signal coming to the Samsung period via HDMI.

also noticing this other problem in SD (4:3) on my STB:

Just set up my 5674 Sammy with the MOTO 6412 STB and the HD PQ is just awesome. And some of the non HD like CNN is pretty darn good OTB also. However, I am noticing a weird dashed white line that is just right (1" max.) of the right edge of the 4:3 picture. that it is in the black bar on the right. It is a perfect dashed line and this occurs on multiple non HD non wide channels. Not sure if this is my set or the TV broadcast. Anyone else seen anything like this. at present I am using component video out of the STB instead of DVI because I have my DVD player using the DVI input on the Sammy.

I got my -05 firmware yesterday and it does change the color quite a bit. I had to change my Panasonic 500's color temp from -1 to 0 because on a graybars test screen from AVIA showed I had to much red in the picture.

Now, with -05 and the Color Temp set to 0, I have nice blue skies and white clouds in outdoor daylight scenes. I also bumped up the chroma level in the DVD player Picture Adj menu to to give the picture that little extra snap. The Brightness and Contrast did not have to change.

All in all, I think it is a good update and can recommend it. The picture with a good DVD (like Hellboy) is amazing!

Ongoing saga..... I was finally able to "crush black":

By setting both the black mode to ENHANCED *and* setting the Picture Menus to 0-ire, there is no blacker than black being passed via DVI 720p to my Sanyo Z2. Of course, bumping up the DVD player's brightness one step (also in the Picture Menus) brings the pluge back, and/or turning either the IRE to 7.5 or the black mode to Normal does the same thing -- with the significant caveat that it also appears to raise the absolute level of video black. It's weird that there are these TWO black level controls, and than a THIRD set of adjustments (the "brightness" item in the Picture Menus).

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
In all honesty I don't think the player is your problem, I have had my 2910 for right around 2 months and have not seen any macro-blocking at all
All I do is rent/buy DVD's over here in Italy due to the fact I only get 6 AFN (Armed Forces Network) channels. So needless to say, name a DVD and I've probably watched it.
I have also spent hours calibrating/tweaking my DVD/Display combo and think I've obtained the best possible picture available (For the specific two I own).
Am I pleased?, I don't think I could be any more impressed then I am right now until HD-DVD hits the market. Not only for PQ, but audio as well (That is unless I get into the 3910).
In all honesty what kind of PQ improvement did you think you were going to see when comparing the 2900 to the 2910?? Both provide outstanding PQ and you'd be hard pressed to find something that really stands out. I think the route you should take is have someone calibrate the display, anytime you switch to another input device (High/Mid-End/Long-Term) this should be considered. I think once you get that MB your seeing taken care of, you should and will be very pleased..JMO
Regards,
Steve

Not necessarily. I think it is a problem with the 2910. I experienced macro-blocking with the 2910 in dark scenes that I didn't with my crappy Toshiba with the same movie.

Ahh, I know what your thinking... not a fare comparison 480P-to-1080i but I own a D-VHS player (the quality of D-VHS movies are amazing!) and I basically bought many D-VHS version of some of my favorite DVD and I do not experience any (what so ever) macro-blocking. Picture perfect 1080i not to mention 5x greater audio fidelity compared to DVD - but another topic altogether...

So again, no MB on my crappy Toshiba and none on my D-VHS... I can't explain it. I do believe it's only a real issue with Rear Projection CRTs like mine (Hitachi 51S700).

My 2 cents... :rolleyes:

jc3

Macro-blocking, when it shows up, seems to be a 1080i problem.

I have not seen any MB at 720p in the month I have had my 2910.

Well Guys,

After reading some reviews on this board (not necessarly this thread), I went out and bought (yet another) DVD Player to test out. I got the Sony 975V to test it out against the Denon 2910. I have heard a few folks saying that the Sony did not cause this flicker and was pretty good for the price. Also, I was hoping since I have a Sony TV maybe it would work well togehter.

Well, I noticed more of the flicker/jitter (only in 1080I) with the Sony then I did with the Denon. I tested both Players out on with the same movies (Starwars Episode 1 and Underworld). I chose the Starwars movie because of the THX Optimizer and some scenes I wanted to test and chose Underworld because I heard of a lot of folks complaining about MB and Black crush with it. I was using a Monster DVI400 cables for the Denon and a Monster HDMI to DVI for the Sony. The Sony seemed to have a pretty sharp picture but I think the Denon looked a 'Slightly' better (sharper/crisper/cleaner). The Sony had some good features too. One thing I liked about it was the fact that I can use that remote on my Sony TV as well (but you can do that with any remote). All in all, the Denon has a some better features and a remote that you can point anywhere and it still works well. Also, the Denon 2910 has a little more features on the remote, not to mention it seems to be a little more quicker to respond when I push buttons on the remote. Call me crazy but one thing I like about the Denon was the ability to see the drop down box behind the THX optimizer and all the 10 shades. With most players i have had you only seem to have 7 bars and can not see the THX drop shadow at all. This leads me to beleive that you actually get more shades/shading and a true-er picture but I could be wrong. Neither Player seem to have any Black Crush issue (no where near the Sammy 841 I had a month ago and returned). I did not get to test the sound of the Sony but I can say that the sound of my Denon seemed to be better than any of the 4 previous DVD Player I have owned which inclued (First Toshiba DVD ever made in the US, a Sony non-progessive DVD player, a Toshiba progessive Scan DVD and the Sammy 841). One other thing that I noticed is that it seems that the Sony DVD Player does not do a great of a job on moving scenes as the Denon. I think someone here mentioned that its the chip that Sony utilizes verus the 2310 Faraujda. Its not very apparent but since I read about it here, I was able to pay attention and did see it (though it was not very much).

Well after testing out 3 "upconvert" players. I would have the say the Sony offers a pretty decent deal for the price. The Sammy 841 sucks, I orignally thougt it was good the first 3 day when I had it but after trying to correct the Black crush problems by adjusting the brightness on the TV and the piss poor remote to name a few, it was not long that I was looking for something better. The Denon 2910 seems to do everything well so far (except the slight green push) but I should have that fix when I get my Firmware disk in the mail early next week. All in all, i think the Denon is a little over priced but it definetly is superior in most or all respects compared to the players I have tested on my 36 in Sony HTDV.

At this point I am still leaning towards keeping the Denon 2910.


Thx,
Claude

I just finished talking to the Denon Hong Kong technican here n they said no firmware upgrade will ever be offer here. So, he suggested me to increase the HUE of the player to +2 n it should clear the 'Green push' problem. Does it make any sense for you guys ???

Originally posted by dvdguru
Yes, the upgrade cd fixes the y/c chroma problem and the green push problem from what I've read. All I know is the picture looks good lol

From my experience, the only thing the firmware upgrade CD does is make the player's menu navigation SLOW at 1080i. And I should know; I've tried it on two separate players, one with a September build date, the other from November.

The only way I have found to correct the DVI output's green push is to use the HDMI port and an HDMI-to-DVI cable (if your TV has DVI only). Green push is completely eliminated. Again, I found that to be true on both decks that I have tried.

Now, if only Denon can do something about the Squeeze Mode and the macroblocking...

Originally posted by bferr1
From my experience, the only thing the firmware upgrade CD does is make the player's menu navigation SLOW at 1080i. And I should know; I've tried it on two separate players, one with a September build date, the other from November.

The only way I have found to correct the DVI output's green push is to use the HDMI port and an HDMI-to-DVI cable (if your TV has DVI only). Green push is completely eliminated. Again, I found that to be true on both decks that I have tried.

Now, if only Denon can do something about the Squeeze Mode and the macroblocking...

Yes but I didn't I read some where that totally accurate conversionof the video data isn't like 100%. Its very close, but black levels don't quite quite make all the way, you lose some of them or they don't match up quite the same from conversion, and something else I read too is an issue. Has to do with the specs on the 2 ports being different.

Someone with info on this from sources we can read about know?

All I know is that via DVI, I get green push, but via HDMI-to-DVI, I don't. If there is a problem with blacks via HDMI-to-DVI, I haven't seen it yet. Blacks look great thus far, as does color in general. In fact, I'd even say the new Ultimate Matrix box set was TOO black.

I guess the choice of compromised, buggy output options is up to you and your preferences, which is probably why the player has both. It's your choice: green push via DVI or a not "totally accurate conversion of the video data" via HDMI-to-DVI. As I can easily notice one and not the other, then the choice was simple for me.

Originally posted by bferr1
All I know is that via DVI, I get green push, but via HDMI-to-DVI, I don't. If there is a problem with blacks via HDMI-to-DVI, I haven't seen it yet. Blacks look great thus far, as does color in general. In fact, I'd even say the new Ultimate Matrix box set was TOO black.

I guess the choice of compromised, buggy output options is up to you and your preferences, which is probably why the player has both. It's your choice: green push via DVI or a not "totally accurate conversion of the video data" via HDMI-to-DVI. As I can easily notice one and not the other, then the choice was simple for me.

What was the latest firmware model number you have used?

I heard some folk have problems when using the HDMI to DVI cable on thier set. I know when I had one hooked up last week, the picture kept sticking (it only happened one time) so I just switched back to DVI. I did not even think to check for the Green Push using the HDMI at the time. Wish I did to see if it would have worked for me. I also returned the Sony 975 this morning with the Monster HDMI to DVI cable because I did not see this thread till later this afternoon.

It's wierd cuz I have read that some folks actually had gotten rid of the green push with the newer firmware and the color looked better as well.

Thx,
Claude

Originally posted by bferr1
The only way I have found to correct the DVI output's green push is to use the HDMI port and an HDMI-to-DVI cable (if your TV has DVI only). Green push is completely eliminated. Again, I found that to be true on both decks that I have tried.

What's the best DVE or AVIA test pattern to see this difference?

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
What was the latest firmware model number you have used?


The latest that ends in 5. I don't know the whole name of it, and I'm at work right now and can't look it up. The latest player I got, the one with the November build, originally had the firmware ending in 4. I updated it to the 5 firmware.

As for DVE or AVIA test patterns, I couldn't say. I trust my own eyes, and could clearly see the green push over DVI, yet couldn't see it over HDMI-to-DVI.

Actually, to be more specific, I set my player to HDMI RGB, as the other setting Y Cr Cb (or whatever its called - again, I'm at work) had an ever so slight green push in the black background when looking at the brightness test in the THX Optimode.

Interesting: The only place I have wondered about the green was on the DVE color bars. Both blue and red look spot on (the 2910 [firmware= "-5"] feeding my Sanyo Z2 via DVI at 720p), but the green looks a little off. With program material, however, I haven't noticed anything (and I'm picky). And the AVIA color decoder test looks okay.

Now that I think I've settled on a DVD player, I want to get the setup ISF-ed.... but maybe I should have an HDMI-DVI adapter on hand, just in case....

Originally posted by nathan_h
Interesting: The only place I have wondered about the green was on the DVE color bars. Both blue and red look spot on (the 2910 [firmware= "-5"] feeding my Sanyo Z2 via DVI at 720p), but the green looks a little off. With program material, however, I haven't noticed anything (and I'm picky). And the AVIA color decoder test looks okay.

Now that I think I've settled on a DVD player, I want to get the setup ISF-ed.... but maybe I should have an HDMI-DVI adapter on hand, just in case....

Nathan,
Did you notice any change in green at all after you installed the -5 firmware?

What did the Firmware do for you? Why did you get it and did it resolve your issue?

Thanks again guys,
Claude

I got the -5 firmware to fix the green push over DVI. I was also told by Carol at Denon that it would do something to fix the Squeeze mode and chroma spread issues with PAL and HDMI (whatever that means).

I had hoped that the Squeeze Mode fix would have made the player automatically detect 4:3 and 16:9 and adjust accordingly when the mode is enabled. Right now, it either squeezes 16:9 and displays 4:3 properly if it's enabled, or it stretches 4:3 and displays 16:9 properly if it's not enabled.

The firmware fix did nothing for me. The DVI output is still green and Squeeze Mode still doesn't work the way it should. As I wrote earlier, all it did was make menu navigation so slow, you wonder whether you pressed a button on the remote in the first place.

That's some fix!

Originally posted by nathan_h
maybe I should have an HDMI-DVI adapter on hand, just in case....

Tell you what, Nathan, buy an HDMI-DVI adapter. If I'm wrong, return it. You'll lose nothing but your time. (I don't think I'm wrong, though.) :D

I wonder if anyone else here with a DVI TV has experimented with this green-push workaround...

Ok, I'm at work so I can't check my dvd player at the moment but I'll ask here so I can check when I get home. Where is the option to switch from 7.5 ire to 0? I saw the normal/enhanced options but didn't see the ire options in the menus. Is this in the pic settings and if so what do they need to be set to for 7.5 vs 0 ire? thanks

It is in Picture Settings. Go all the way over to the right to SET and hit ENTER. You'll see the setting for IRE and for horizontal and vertical position.
You can choose 7.5 or 0 here.

Originally posted by bferr1
Tell you what, Nathan, buy an HDMI-DVI adapter. If I'm wrong, return it. You'll lose nothing but your time. (I don't think I'm wrong, though.) :D

I wonder if anyone else here with a DVI TV has experimented with this green-push workaround...

I just responded to your other post....Seems you were right. The electronic store is less than 2 miles away from me so I jetted over to it at 9pm, picked up a Monster HDMI to DVI cable and it seemed to fixed the Green Push problem. I will continue to check a few other DVDs and run the THX optimizer to see how well that looks now.

I have heard of a few folks having some MB issues when and some other issues when Using a HDMI to DVI cable. Has anyone here experience any problems with the HDMI/DVI cable with thier 2910, If so what problems did you have?

Bferr1, thanks again...I will keep both cables for a few more day and If I dont seem to have any issues at all with this HDMI/DVI cable then I will return the DVI cable and not bother doing the firmware update as you suggested. Your Help was GREATLY APPRECIATED!!:D

Claude

just to clear up what you guys have been discussing - if you are connecting your Denon 2910 with an HDMI-DVI-D adapter it does not matter what setting you select in the HDMI/DVI Select option. The player automatically outputs all signals DIGITAL RGB. Check out page 17 of the owner's manual under the heading NOTE:


hope this clears things up a bit..
talk to you guys again soon.
Carmine

OK you guys I got my Sammy 5674 and Denon 2910 two days ago. The STB broadcast HD is awesome ( comcast no less). Watched Day After Tomorrow and noticed the green push which I presume means that not all is green, for example whites are white, but yellows and things that intended to be green are too green and so are some of the faces in close-up. I have my DVD hooked via HDMI-HDMI. This is actually a loaner DVD player until my silver 2910 arrives and I dont know what version of firmware it is running. So am I wrong to assume based upon reading this thread that I should NOT be getting the green push via HSMI??

advice so that I have do the right thing when my silver 2910 arrives??

And will Avia solve this? I am waiting for the ~ 100 burn in time before doing the AVIA or considering a real ISF calibration.

M

Claude, no problem. Glad I could help. And, actually, I did the firmware upgrade anyway just to play it safe. Who knows, maybe it did fix the chroma spread issue, but that's something that I have yet to notice.

Carmine, I agree that it makes no difference which HDMI setting is selected. I've only noticed an ever so slight greenish look to the THX brightness pattern while using Y Cb Cr, but not during any actual movies. There is no slightly greenish look to the test pattern when using the RGB mode. But, just to be on the safe side, I set my player to RGB just the same.

hey man i would do the same as you if i noticed any problems with my Denon. anything that works for you....Happy Holidays to you & enjoy that Denon!!!!

Thanks, and happy holidays to you!

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
Nathan,
Did you notice any change in green at all after you installed the -5 firmware?

What did the Firmware do for you? Why did you get it and did it resolve your issue?

Thanks again guys,
Claude

Didn't notice a big problem before the new firmware and didn't notice a change afterwards, though I must admit that most of my watching before putting in the official US Denon firmware was with the region-free version from Europe -- which may have incorporated all the changes in the US version, already.

I mostly got the firmware so that I would have something to fall back on, if the region-free one turned out to be unstable. But I'll settle on whichever one looks best -- and whatever cabling looks best -- at some point, I'd guess. For now, maybe I'll spend the $30 + shipping on a basic adapter (from Gefen: http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI-hdmi_adapt.html).

Originally posted by bferr1
Claude, no problem. Glad I could help. And, actually, I did the firmware upgrade anyway just to play it safe. Who knows, maybe it did fix the chroma spread issue, but that's something that I have yet to notice.

Carmine, I agree that it makes no difference which HDMI setting is selected. I've only noticed an ever so slight greenish look to the THX brightness pattern while using Y Cb Cr, but not during any actual movies. There is no slightly greenish look to the test pattern when using the RGB mode. But, just to be on the safe side, I set my player to RGB just the same.

Bferr1,
At first it seemed that the green push was gone but upon further testing with the HDMI/DVI cable. I noticed the green push was gone because the HDMI/DVI cable developed a bit of a black crush which darkened the picture. Yes the green push was gone but at the cost of a much darker picture. I also popped in the thx optimizer just to make sure and with the settings exactly the same, THRU DVI/DVI I could see the THX logo and the drop shadow (with Enhance black on and 7.5 on) for my TV that seems to work best. I would normally see the THX and the drop shadow and see 9 differnt shades of black and barely see the last. Anyways when I hooked up the HDMI/DVI, not only was the drop shadow gone but the THX logo was almost completely gone as well and I can only see 6 black bars. Also after about 1 hour of testing it, I was noticing some slight Macroblocking with the HDMI/DVI cable. When I finally adjusted the brightness so it looks like it did (brigthness wise) the same as my DVI hookup.....Guess what, the green push came back via HDMI/DVI. I believe the green push is cause by the hue as well as the brightness setting and probably something else. Needless to say, I switched back and for from DVI to HDMI/DVI and finally stayed with DVI because I noticed no MB with DVI. When I was back to DVI, I turned down the brightness a little more and adjusted the hue to +2 and the green push is still there but now its slightly less with the brightness down a little more. With the DVI cable, I get to MB as stated and I can still see the THX logo and barely see the drop shadow. As well as the picture does not look as dark as it did on the movies I was testing it on. I am gonna keep both cables for a few days till the firmware gets here and report the results of the firmware for DVI and HDMI and the worse one goes back to the store or Worse, the Denon goes back to the store.

You may want to test your Player out again via a Thx optimizer or somethign better just to make sure your player is not just 'hiding the green push problem by just giving you a dark picture. But then again, mabee the firmware helped fixed your problem so you dont get a dark picture to HDMI/DVI nor any Macroblocking.

Thanks for trying to help, it was and is still appreciated......

I will let you guys know my results when I get the firmware disk.
If this does not work. I may just down grade to a progressive scan DVD player or possible upgrade to the Pioneer. :D
We'll see.

Claude

Everybody talks about the video side of the 2910.I'm more interested in the Audio side.I am currently running a Sony 999ES & like the SACD.What my question is is does it sound comparable to the 999 on the SACD side or does it do it injustice like the 47ai.

Has anyone experienced pixel cropping, even with the latest firmware applied, on the 2910?? I have it hooked up to a DILA (JVC HX1) projector and notice that a few pixels on the left side of the screen are cropped. Thanks.

I received the CD with the new firmware from Denon the other day, and I'm interested in the possibility of editing it to see if I can make it region-free, assuming that doesn't require actual writing of code or knowledge of the language in which the firmare is written. Is there a software tool easily available out there that would allow me to take a shot at it? Or is it sufficiently proprietarty that leaks from inside Denon are our only hope for newer region-free versions?

You mean the one from Sept posted above is not new enough?

Many people posting about the green push say that the newest firmware changes the player's colors significantly (in a good way), and the region-free firmware seems to be based on an older version (version 4 versus the new version 5 that Denon is sending out).

I'm glad I'm color blind !!! no green push problems for me !!!!! :D :D :D

Originally posted by nathan_h
interesting....

this makes sense, but begs the question about why my $150 Pioneer doesn't have troubles like this... :-)

Because they are being disguised by more significant problems..
:) :) :)

Originally posted by bferr1
Steve, how exactly did you do an overscan adjustment through the Denon? Is there a service menu of some kind for the Denon player? Also, I have a KP-51WS510, very similar to your 57-inch. Any suggestions on service menu tweaks I should look at, like the UBLK setting?
Thanks!


Ohh, the list could go on and on!!! But hey, what do you think about the PQ this combination produces, I love it !!!!
As for tweaks, I'm going to have to get back to you on that, I have all of my adjustments written up at home and I'm currently on duty (At Work) Are you currently having any problems with PQ, how long have you had your WS510? If over a year have you cleaned your lenses recently, tried the manual static focus as compared to flash focus?

Originally posted by andrewjnyc
Many people posting about the green push say that the newest firmware changes the player's colors significantly (in a good way), and the region-free firmware seems to be based on an older version (version 4 versus the new version 5 that Denon is sending out).

Good point. Although some reports indicate that the green push is still present with the vers 5 firmware. I don't know whether I have green push per se but I do know that with the vers 5 firmware the DVE color pattern still shows Red is okay, Blue is okay, and Green is off -- same as the region-free version 4, for me.

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
I would normally see the THX and the drop shadow and see 9 differnt shades of black and barely see the last. Anyways when I hooked up the HDMI/DVI, not only was the drop shadow gone but the THX logo was almost completely gone as well and I can only see 6 black bars. Also
Claude

You do know you are not supposed to see the drop shadow and not see the 8th, 9th and 10th boxes and only just see the 7th after adjustment dont you?

Bill

Guys it looks like I may have fixed most of my problems just by continue to adjust the color and brightness levels on the 2910. I set my setup to 0 (not 7.5) changed enhance to normal. Also I raised brigthness us +2, raised hue up +2 and also raised chroma up +2 and now the green push is all but gone. It still there ever so slightly (not enough to bother me as it did before). Also by setting the levels of brightness and setup like this, I notice a lot less flickering/jittering (no where near as distracting as it was before in 1080I only almost completly gone). As Btiltman suggested, I followed the THX opitimizer instructions exactly and now I can see the THX but no drop shadow and can barely see the 7 shade and it seemed to work very well on a few of the movies I just checked it on (Starwars Episode 1, Underworld and Miracles)....

I should have the firmware on Monday or Tuesday and might install that as well to see if it help even further but now I am starting to enjoy my 2910 again. I still find that the DVI cable give a cleaner picture with less MB than the HDMI/DVI cable.

Thanks again for all the help.
Claude

How many firmware updates have there been for the 2910 ???

Does the 2910 output 1080i over component? I searched this forum and the owner's manual, but couldn't find a definitive answer.

If not, does the DVI output include DVI-A, to allow it to be converted to VGA with a simple adapter?

My TV only supports VGA at 1080i (or 480p). I have a Key Digital component to VGA converter, which lets me use the component switch on my receiver (and my HD Tivo, which only has component outputs).

# of updates: hard to say but the last digit in the firmware version appears to be incremental with each update and the current firmware has a "5".

upconversion over component: no

DVI-A: no -- only DVI-D and even then only to an HDCP-compliant display

Only a few non-mainstream machines (like the Momitsu) upconvert over component, at this point. Lots of threads about such beasts.

Hi all,

I have my 2910 hooked up via DVI to a Samsung HLP 4674. I'm satisfied with the picture quality; but have two issues:

(1) On some movies (Dark City, La Femme Nikita, Chicago) the player stutters after a couple of minutes. At first, the stuttering is short, but it progressively gets much worse until it becomes completely unwatchable. This only happens with some movies.

(2) The sound quality is very good; but I've noticed the soundstage that this players produces for redbook CDs is not well defined at all. Has anyones tested the 3910 and compared it to the 2910?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
Ohh, the list could go on and on!!! But hey, what do you think about the PQ this combination produces, I love it !!!!
As for tweaks, I'm going to have to get back to you on that, I have all of my adjustments written up at home and I'm currently on duty (At Work) Are you currently having any problems with PQ, how long have you had your WS510? If over a year have you cleaned your lenses recently, tried the manual static focus as compared to flash focus?

I've had my WS510 for over a year. It was a free Sony replacement for a previous model that turned out to be a lemon due to flickering. I had the new TV ISF'd after about three months and have had no PQ problems with it at all (knock wood). I have not cleaned the lenses, nor have I tried the manual static focus because I wouldn't know how and don't want to create problems where there are none already.

I know about the Service Menu and things like adjusting for red push. I also know about adjusting the horizontal and vertical widths of the picture through the Service Menu, in order to adjust for overscan. The problem I've seen with that method, though, is that it tends to distort the geometry of the picture, bending it.

How did you adjust for overscan through the Denon and not through the TV? Inquiring minds want to know...

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to throw this in here since I'm new to this thread. I'm in the market for a 2910 or 3910. What are the major differences of the two? I have a fujistsu p50 and wanted the access of HDMI on the player. Looked into the older version either the 2900 or 2200 as well which is $600 cheaper than the new ones. Any suggestions or recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Richie

Originally posted by 55 AMG
Hi Guys,

I just wanted to throw this in here since I'm new to this thread. I'm in the market for a 2910 or 3910. What are the major differences of the two? I have a fujistsu p50 and wanted the access of HDMI on the player. Looked into the older version either the 2900 or 2200 as well which is $600 cheaper than the new ones. Any suggestions or recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Richie

See this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=452249

I got my new firmware on Friday, 5 business days after I emailed Denon. It fixed the green push problem I was having. I also see extremely minimal macroblocking.
I am completely satisfied with how my 2910 and 50PHD7UY combination looks.

I am still having a problem getting SACD's to play multichannel though. I am going multichannel analog out to my Denon 3803 receiver for SACD. For movies, I go Digital Optical out to the 3803. For Video, I go DVI-D from 2910 to 50PHD7UY. Movies work great, but with SACD I only get L and R channels. Center, Sub and the Surrounds are getting no output.

Any thoughts?

After applying your firmware, does your color green look okay on test patterns, too? Are you using a DVI or HDMI connection?

Hey guys,

I just wanted to provide and update. I was experiencing the green push problem. You can read about my post in this thread. I took someones advice and adjusted the brightness setting +2, Used normal (instead of enhanced black), +2 on the hue, 0 on setup (not 7.5) and +2 on the chroma level yesterday and it helped a lot but there was still a VERY SLIGHT green push.

Well this morning, I got my Firmware -5 disk in the mail. I reset all the levels back to factory settings and installed the disk. But before I did so, I watched a few scenes from a few movies as a reference point. Then I installed the firmware disk. I can see an immediate improvement in the color after the -5 disk. Colors are richer and deeper. The green push problem is all but gone.

Now instead of previous settings I was using. I change the settings to +2 brightness, Still Normal (not enhance black), Still + 2 on chroma level but now I only had to put hue to +1 (not +2 ) as I had to before the -5 firmware. Like I said, I noticed that the green push problems were almost gone before I adjusted the settings. Now the green push problem (after these settings and the firmware -5) is completely gone. Also I do notice with these settings, the flickering/jittery picture is not very noticeable now (its still SLIGHTLY there but not as annoying as it was before the settings).

All in all, I am very happy with the Denon 2910 now. I wanted to provide this update since it might help the next person that had these problems.

I was able to record (via DVR) Finding Nemo on Stars HD and also Miracles on Stars HD. And was doing a comparison last nigth (before the firmware install). I have both of these movies on DVD as well. Last night the comparison proved that the 2910 is upto par sharpness wise and clarity wise to these 2 movies recorded on STARS HD however, since I only had a slight green push after the settings I mentioned above (before firmware install) the 2910 so it did not look as good as the Stars HD version. Also I noticed last nigth that the colors were a little richer and deeper in the Stars HD version vs the 2910. Well after my firmware disk, and the new settings, I did another comparison this afternoon. The Denon now has the edge over Stars HD movies. The green push is gone, and the colors are as deep and rich exactly like they were on Stars HD (but it seems that the 2910 has a little more details in the darker areas vs Stars hd)

I am using good component cables for my DVR Comcast HD cable box and using DVI400 monster cable for my Denon 2910. As I stated before, I am very happy with the Denon now and it will not be going back to the store as did the Sammy 841 did and the Sony 975 did.

Thanks for everyone input and help, it was much appreciated.
Claude

(Note that Finding Nemo on Starz HD was not in HD, but was an upconvert from SD.)

Originally posted by passtime
I am still having a problem getting SACD's to play multichannel though. I am going multichannel analog out to my Denon 3803 receiver for SACD. For movies, I go Digital Optical out to the 3803. For Video, I go DVI-D from 2910 to 50PHD7UY. Movies work great, but with SACD I only get L and R channels. Center, Sub and the Surrounds are getting no output.

Any thoughts?

Just in case you have not tried this yet...

Make sure you have the six audio cables attached between the player's six channel outs and the 3803 ext in. Put a Multi-Channel SACD in the player and press the SACD setup button on either the remote or front panel until you see MULTI in the display. Make sure your 3803 is in the Ext-In mode.

Good Luck!

Originally posted by bucky63
Just in case you have not tried this yet...

Make sure you have the six audio cables attached between the player's six channel outs and the 3803 ext in. Put a Multi-Channel SACD in the player and press the SACD setup button on either the remote or front panel until you see MULTI in the display. Make sure your 3803 is in the Ext-In mode.

Good Luck!

Yep, that's how I have it. Only L and R speakers with output.

Is your Audio Channel setup set to Multi-Channel as described on page 25 in the manual?

Denon fw disc and player arrived same day. Loaded new fw before firing it up. DVI at 720P with this player is exceptionally smooth. My RP82 gave a good pic but the Denon is sharper.

The build quality was a welcomed change from the paper weight players I am used to. I was thinking about an SDI upgrade but am in no hurry now as the PQ from DVI is exceptional.

Even though this sounds like a dumb question, can someone please tell me if I need special RCA cables to use the Analog output of the DVD player? Or will regular RCA cables suffice.

Originally posted by passtime
Yep, that's how I have it. Only L and R speakers with output.

And it's a multichannel SACD, right? I have a few that are only L + R, even when in multichannel mode, since that is how the producer wanted it.

I have 2 SACDs presently:

Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
This one even says 5.1 on it.

Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral
This one says multichannel.

With all the flurry of recent posts related to the firmware up-grade ( to xxxxx-5), I wonder if it is possible to summarize the conclusions that have been arrived at. I realize this may be different for different displays and connections, but let me get started:

I have a hlpxx63, connected to the 2910 via HDMI-HDMI. From the recent posts, is it still recommended to use the YCrCb option (as originally suggested) or RGB? Are chroma and hue now recommended to be set to 0, or is it thought they should be boosted somewhat, e.g, chroma to +2 and hue to +1? Since some of these recommendation were before the upgrade to -5 firmware, and then got changed afterward, it's been hard to decipher what the final conclusions are! Thanks much.

I agree with Millerwill that it would be truly useful and greatly appreciated for people to put their "optimal" settings arrived at after the firmware update for their particular display (especially the 4674 or 5674 Sammys!. wink wink!!)

mismatched

I'd guess it's meaningless unless one's display is ISF-ed but here goes:

Sanyo Z2 via 720p DVI: Enhanced black = on, IRE = 0, brightness = +1. Not yet solved the slightly odd green reading on DVE but it is not apparent on program material.

Originally posted by passtime
I have 2 SACDs presently:

Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
This one even says 5.1 on it.

Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral
This one says multichannel.

When you do a speaker level check from your 2910's speaker setup menu, do you get the white nosie from all six speakers?

Ok. I just got my HLP 6163 delivered last week and am dissapointed in my DVD player (Pioneer Elite DV45A). I AM getting the AVIA disk - seems that no one has it around here. Although it's a little more expensive, I am probably going to get the 2910 anyway. Let me see if I understand this correctly...

I have a Denon AVR3300 receiver, Samsung HLP6163 and I am buying the 2910. Right now, my comcast cablebox is hooked up to the DVI port of the TV. I have an Optical cable running all my audio to the receiver. I should hook up HDMI to HDMI.

I have NEVER calibrated my TV or my DVD player - Who sells it? How hard is it going to be for a newbie to calibrate these babies??!

To be honest, I just want the best picture that I can without going broke but I keep on hearing about all the jitttering problems and it have me a little on edge.

I am going to order this online so should I watch out for a player made before a certain date? What about a batch of serial numbers?

Thanks everyone for their ideas on my SACD problem. I came home from work today and popped one in to start troubleshooting again. Lo and behold it worked just fine! 5.1 in all it's glory.
I don't know what changed, but I'm sure I had a simple setting wrong somewhere.

Thanks again. Getting this fixed along with the version 5 firmware fixing the green push problem have turned me around. I am now very happy and satisfied with my 2910 purchase.

passtimes - did you upgrade the firmware using your DVI connection, or did you use composite or S-Video like the instructions said? I tried to email Denon techsupport to see why I couldn't just use my HDMI-HDMI connection for the upgrade but they never responded (someone posted you don't really need any connection).

That's correct.....you don't need any connection at all....the instructions are simple:
Pop the disc in (dont press play)
when Complete, open the player (and remove disc), but do NOT close the player.
turn power off
turn power on (with drive still open)
once drive closes, press Play-FF-(I forgot the 3rd botton, sorry), and it will initialize.
once initialized, you are ready to roll

I am hestitating for this player! I have seen it on a LCD last week-end, and it was far from impressive compared to my old and broke Pioneer 747!

The fludity, movements were less natural and a bit more static!A bit too much green too!

But I had not the impression that the player was tweaked well!

Well, yesterday I e-mail Denon and asked if they have any plans for custom output resolutions on teh 2910 (I have a Sony VPL-HS10 - 1366x768@56Hz). I haven't seen any threads where anyone actually asked Denon for this yet, so I figured I'd try.

Haven't heard back yet.

I've seen some posts in regards to people using their analog outs to receivers due to the fact that the processing in the 2910 is superior to their current receiver. I've got a B&K AVR 307. I'm currently using the Toslink out on my 2910 to the B&K. I've listed the DAC info below for both units...Would I too be better off using the analog outs to the B&K..thanks in advance..Bob.

Denon 2910
Burr-Brown 24-bit, 192-kHz DSD-1791 Audio DACs that decode PCM and DSD signals discretely with no cross-conversion of DSD • Full Digital Bass Management for DVD-Audio, featuring Analog Devices Melody 32-bit processor; 80Hz crossover with 12dB high and 24dB low pass slopes;

B&K 307
The DACs in the AVR-307 are AKM AK4393, which are 24-bit/96kHz compatible sigma delta DACs with integrated interpolation filters. Each AK4393 comprises a stereo pair, and there are four DACs on-board. Analog-to-Digital Converters (ADC) are also sigma delta types that convert analog signals to 24-bit/ 96kHz PCM. Once converted to digital, these signals go through the Motorola DSP for post-processing (bass management, etc.). If a surround mode is employed, the sample rate is reduced to 48kHz for multi-channel playback.

Originally posted by BenF12400
passtimes - did you upgrade the firmware using your DVI connection, or did you use composite or S-Video like the instructions said? I tried to email Denon techsupport to see why I couldn't just use my HDMI-HDMI connection for the upgrade but they never responded (someone posted you don't really need any connection).

I disconnected my DVI cable and hooked up a composite connection because I wanted to follow their instructions to the letter. I had the cable handy anyway. I don't think it matters much because you literally put the disk in and it pops out when it's done.

Bob, it looks to me like the Denon DAC's will sound better. You would just have to try and let your ears tell you! But that means 6 new cables if you don't have any. Try http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/6channel/index.htm

Great quality without costing an arm and a leg.

Thanks Jazzcat..I'm going to give it a try...I have nothing to lose..the system sounds great now, so any improvement would be icing on the cake..bob.

Originally posted by rtindel
Thanks Jazzcat..I'm going to give it a try...I have nothing to lose..the system sounds great now, so any improvement would be icing on the cake..bob.

Bob, I mainly use them for SACD and DVD-A. I am still testing using 5.1 Analog in vs. coax for movies. With my set-up (2910 and 3805 receiver) I keep the volume level between -8 and -2 using analog in but with digital coax, -20dB is pretty loud. I think that has to do with the auto set-up that the Denon 3805 did. I think you will be pleasantly surprised playing DVD-A or SACD.

Bob

I would agree with Jazzcat on the bluejeans cables and the setup he suggests as I also have a one week old 2910/3805 system. And yes the volume is loud!! By the way Jazzcat I would be interested in your conclusions re: 5.1 Analog vs coax for movie sound!

thanks

Mike

Hi Mike, I just rented "I, Robot" so I think I will give it a try this evening switching between EXT IN vs. Digital and see if I can hear the difference.

BTW, I have one 1 meter Cobalt DVI cable going from my Dtronics DVI switch to my Sammy DLP. The rest of my audio/video cables are from bluejeans :D

"I, Robot" should be a good measure. keep me informed. I have the 6 cable analog set for 5.1 form BJs also. They make a nice looking cable! I am set up for digital with a toslink but I would imagine that vs coax should not make any difference???

I'm coming to the end of my return period for my 2910; am deciding to keep it after trying most of the ~$300 players (841, 1910, S97, 941) and finding them not as good as it. But my B&M will price-match after the fact. Can any of you point to where the best current prices are for the 2910?

Hey guys..I really appreciate the feedback. I use the system primarily for movie based content so I'm really anxious to see if there is a difference with the analog outs...

Mike,

I've tried both coax and toslink and could not discern any audible difference. But then again I'm not an audiophile...bob.

Hey guys..I really appreciate the feedback. I use the system primarily for movie based content so I'm really anxious to see if there is a difference with the analog outs...
I have both, a 5.1 analog connection from my DVD 2910 to ext. in of my AVR 3805 using blue jeans multi-channel audio cables and a digital connection using a Monster Cable InterlinkŽ Lightspeed Reference Fiber Optic Digital cable.

I usually switch between both when I'm watching a movie and never have noticed any difference between them. I understand this is because both equipments have same decoders.

Anyone knows what is the latest multiregion firmware available for DVD 2910? Mine is XXX2. I understand version XXX5 is not multiregion.

Thanks

Octavio

Correction to first dumb ? asked below: Denon tech said the silver version of the 2910 is called a 955S! Why not call it a 2910S and save neophytes like me from posting all these silly queries!!??

Ok all you 2910 experts help me out here. I requested the infamous firmware update for the 2910 from Denon via email. The service support guy got back to me very fast. I had mentioned that I had a black 2910 on loan because the 2910 silvers were backordered. He said that the CD with the update was in the mail and that the unit that I wanted was the "DVD955S", but that it was backordered also. Huh??? I googled it and found that this unit is similar to the 2910S. Why did that support guy tell me to order the DVD955S instead of sticking with the 2910???

Anyone know if there are any important differences??

thanks

mismatched

PS and what is this multi-region stuff I keep hearing about??

They're the same, if you look at the front page of the owners manual you'll see both numbers listed with a slash between them.

Posted by mismatched ... and what is this multi-region stuff I keep hearing about??

US and Canada are region 1, Europe is region 2, Latin America and Australia are region 4, etc.

Each region of the world has its own zone and players can only read DVD's made for that particular region. For example, DVD players sold in the US can only read region 1 discs.

However, players can be converted to multiregion (upgrading the firmware) so they can read discs of every zone. This is useful if you buy discs in a different country or if you spend long periods of time in different countries and take the DVD player with you.

Like you, I also wonder what differences are between DVD2910 and DVD955 models. The manual seems to be exactly the same for both. After reading it, I didn't find any distinction between them.

Octavio

Originally posted by rtindel
Hey guys..I really appreciate the feedback. I use the system primarily for movie based content so I'm really anxious to see if there is a difference with the analog outs...

I have the 2910 with a 3803 and I still use the coaxial out so I can add some (30ms) audio delay so my projector's picture and sound are matched. Another reason to use the digital out is so you can use your Room EQ (3805) and EX (7.1 speaker setup) if you have the extra speakers hooked up.

I agree, sound quality wise, I don't notice a difference between the 6-channel analog outs versus the digital outs going to the 3803.

I got a question, how many people use the Pure Direct features of either the 2910 and the 3803/3805? I believe I hear a cleaner and more detailed sound when I turn off everything not needed.

Thanks experts. I guess I will wait and see what arrives in my backorder! As for Pure Direct I get the sense that it gives a cleaner sound but....

Once you push the 'Pure Direct' button, there are several position you can choose from, like Normal etc.. So, what do you guys choose for listening to SACD or DVD-audio ? Thanks.

I am hesitating for the denon! Those macro-blocks are still visible ith the new firmware and when and with connection do they appear?

I only saw one, but the callibration was bad, and I had the impression that the movements were less natural! That is very important if the picture is not fluent, then everything , colours, contrast etc can be as good as they want, but ...then the image is not natural!

My Pioneer 747 was good in that! So I hesitate Pioneer 757 or enon 2910?

And what about the sound comparaison?

After watching i, Robot last night it was hard to tell a difference in sound between digital and 5.1 channel analog. If all you do is watch movies and don't care about DVD-A or SACD, you will probably be fine not bothering with analog out to your receiver.

AC388, doesn't Pure Direct only refer to 2 channel? I listen to 5.1 channel audio so I have not used that setting. If it does affect 5.1, I will give it a try.

indieke2, I have never had a macroblocking issue with this player. It's hooked up via DVI @ 720p to a Samsung DLP.

Jazzcat,

I got this response yesterday from a friend of mine in the AV business regarding the analog outs:

"Good question... The answer is simple. The D to A conversion in your DVD player is substantially better than the receiver's D to A converter. Unfortunately, your receiver converts the analog signal to digital through the analog input anyway. You are probably better off using the digital output of the DVD player. Typically, I would only use the analog output of a DVD player if the system is connected to a non-audio processing integrated amplifier (or directly to an amplifier using the DVD players digital or analog volume (SACD/DVD-Audio)"

Guess I'll stay with the digital out.

Indieke2...I've had the 2910 for about a week now, hooked up through HDMI to a Sony GWIV LCD. I've watched 8 movies and a lot of HDTV, I've never seen the macroblocking issue...bob.

Bob, that's what I do now. Digital for movies and analog for SACD and DVD-A.

Originally posted by jazzcat
AC388, doesn't Pure Direct only refer to 2 channel? I listen to 5.1 channel audio so I have not used that setting. If it does affect 5.1, I will give it a try.


Pure Direct on the 2910 does work with the 5.1 outs. How I decide to use them is to setup Pure Direct like this...

Normal - Digital - On, Video - On, Display - On
MEM 1 - Digital - Off, Video - On, Display - On
MEM 2 - Digital - Off, Video - OFF, Display - On
Off - Digital - Off, Video - Off, Display - Off

With SACDs, I use Mem 2 or OFF.

With DVD-A ,I use MEM 1 if I want to see the video or MEM 2 (or OFF) if I don't want to see the video. I rarely use MEM 1 for DVD-A because I don't want to see the video while listening to a DVD-A.

I believe both the 3803 and the 3805 do not digitally process the incoming signal from the 6 channel analog ins. Other receivers and processors might. These Denon receivers have a Pure Direct mode that turns off the Digital, Video and Display making the receiver a simple analog amplifier. There is also a Direct Sound Mode turns off any processes other then taking a digital signal (if present), up-convert it using AL24 (if PCM) and dump it to the D/As (if needed).

So, to get the cleanest sound, I use the 2910's Pure Direct MEM 2 or OFF and my 3803's Pure Direct when listing to multi-channel SACDs or DVD-As. Like I said, I believe I hear a cleaner and more detailed sound using the Pure Direct over not using them.

FYI, I have not seen any macroblocking either although this loaner unit I have did give a green push on Day After Tomorrow, but not so noticeable on that cuddly Before Sunset.

A ? on bass management: I am hooked on to a Denon AVR 3805 and am wondering whether I should use the bass enhancement (or whatever it is called) on the 2910 or use the normal base output setting. I did set the black level to normal instead of enhanced and the IRE set = 0 instead of the factory default of +7.5.

m

bucky63, thanks for that info. I will give that a try with SACD/DVD-A.

mismatched, the "Bass Enhanser" enables audio to sub for 2 channel audio. It doesn't apply to Digital outputs.

I have an Outlaw ICBM for bass management on SACD/DVD-A.

Originally posted by jazzcat
bucky63, thanks for that info. I will give that a try with SACD/DVD-A.

mismatched, the "Bass Enhanser" enables audio to sub for 2 channel audio. It doesn't apply to Digital outputs.

I have an Outlaw ICBM for bass management on SACD/DVD-A.

Jazzcat ( or anyone else in the know) -- I have my Denon 2910 hooked up via toslink and 5.1 channel analog to my Denon 3805 received. So Bass enhance will only work if I set my 3805 to Ent In ??
navie ? # XXXXX

mismatched

PS so I should go back into my 2910 menu and activate Bass Enhance?? I had cancelled it because I thought my teenage son had set it to bass enhance and my spouse complained.

Hello everyone....

I just received my HLP5674 and my Denon 2910. I have noticed flickering gnats (best description I have) when I play DVD's. This is also noticeable in the black bars in letter box format. Also the transition from the black bars to the picture isn't that great either.

Anyone else have this problem? Is it Macroblocking? Is it my TV or my DVD player? I am assuming that it is the DVD player.

I called Denon and they said they have a firmware. Has anyone received this firmware. If you have, has it helped with any of the above problems?

Thanks!

Originally posted by a1rmann
Hello everyone....

I just received my HLP5674 and my Denon 2910. I have noticed flickering gnats (best description I have) when I play DVD's. This is also noticeable in the black bars in letter box format. Also the transition from the black bars to the picture isn't that great either.

Anyone else have this problem? Is it Macroblocking? Is it my TV or my DVD player? I am assuming that it is the DVD player.

I called Denon and they said they have a firmware. Has anyone received this firmware. If you have, has it helped with any of the above problems?

Thanks!

Try turning down your brightness setting. It sounds like you have your black levels calibrated just a little too high.

I wish that was the case. My brightness is down around 50 and I played with it lower and noticed no change.

Any other suggestions?

Quick Question on the Bass Enhancer feature.

I have a Bose Lifestyle 12 Series II system (I bought it many years ago and it currently suits my needs for the size room that I have..etc) and it currently hooked up to the co-ax of the 2910. I was thinking of later adding a powered sub woofer to the Bose for a little more Bass. I wanted to know if I could add a power sub directly to the 2910 Sub out and turn on the Bass enhancer....Would this work along with my Bose System? I wont be doing this anytime soon as currently live in an apartment/townhome but wanted to know for when we get our house as it may be an option to improve upon the bose with out getting all new component.

My questions are will this work?
And would the bass sound good or is this a bad way of doing things?

Thx,
Claude

Originally posted by mismatched

I did set the black level to normal instead of enhanced and the IRE set = 0 instead of the factory default of +7.5.

m [/B]

Mismatched: When you set IRE =0, I presume that you go back to DVE to re-set the Brightness, right? I will try this. Are you still able to see all three 'black bars' in the pluge patterns with IRE=0?

Originally posted by a1rmann
I wish that was the case. My brightness is down around 50 and I played with it lower and noticed no change.

Any other suggestions?

Do you have another way of sending a black signal to the display? I think you might see it with that source as well.

At what distance can you see the gnats? I say this because, most DLP projectors have dancing ants in the black when you get real close to the screen. But as you back off to a normal viewing distance they disappear. My HT1000 DLP is like that, sending a black signal from any source. But I have to be within a couple feet of my 96" wide screen to see them, so it is a non-issue.

I tested the 2910 on my HT1000 and it did not contrinute any additional black dithering noise to my projected image. But I know it can become more apparent from a normal viewing position if I raise the calibrated black level above what it should be.

Check another black signal source if you can, and please clarify how close you have to be to the display to see the artifact.

What other way would I send a black signal? My SD does not have this problem of dancing ants. I can notice it from futher away because the ants are different colors including light grays so the blacks look lighter.

When I play the Matrix the ants have green in it as well. Also the transition of the black bars with the picture isn't that great either.

What other information can I give you?

Bytehoven,

Do I need to make picture adjustments in my DVD menu? Or just in my TV menu?

If I do need to make setting changes in my Denon 2910, which would you recommend to solve some of my issues and get a better picture?

Thanks!

Originally posted by a1rmann
What other way would I send a black signal? My SD does not have this problem of dancing ants. I can notice it from futher away because the ants are different colors including light grays so the blacks look lighter.

When I play the Matrix the ants have green in it as well. Also the transition of the black bars with the picture isn't that great either.

What other information can I give you?

Hmmmm.... That does sound like an entirely differenc beast now that you mention color in the noise.

Try a different cable maybe?

How do you have the 2910 set as far as HDMI/DVI Black Level and Picture Mode SETOP 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE?

You might try setting the player to NORMAL and 0 IRE, which worked best for me.

If your player is set at NORMAL and 7.5 IRE, that might be boosting the black levels way beyond your ability to compenstae on the display.

You might even try Enhanced and 0 IRE to see if it helps.

Will try and cross my fingers :)

Nothing like spending money and not having things perfect. The joy of AV equipment.

Originally posted by millerwill
Mismatched: When you set IRE =0, I presume that you go back to DVE to re-set the Brightness, right? I will try this. Are you still able to see all three 'black bars' in the pluge patterns with IRE=0?

Millerwill

I will once my DVE disk arrives. I had to send back an Avia disk to Amazon because it would either not load or go directly to some sub part of chapter 7 and not behave...

Amazon was quick to send another Avia disk which should arrive soon and I will do both the Avia and DVE stuff to the best of my limited ability!

thanks

m

PS please explain pluge pattern... I have not had any experience adjusting with these "fancy" disks..

Mismatched: Look forward to hearing your results with DVE; I will try mine tonight. In DVE (which is quite a bit cheaper than AVIA, so you will probably want to have both), the 'pluge' patterns show 3 black bars on either side of various things in between. You want to adjust Brightness (black level) so that the darkest of the 3 bars (the outside ones) just blend into the black background. Follow the instructions on the DVE dvd and you will have no problems getting the hang of it. (DVE also has a great 'demo' opening for showing off your audio as well as video system!)

millerwill

thanks for the tips and encouragement. when you say adjust brightness you are referring to the display or the DVD player?? see how much I "know"!!

If this mid 50's guy can't do it he will recruit his teenage tech savy son.

m

Originally posted by mismatched
millerwill

thanks for the tips and encouragement. when you say adjust brightness you are referring to the display or the DVD player?? see how much I "know"!!

If this mid 50's guy can't do it he will recruit his teenage tech savy son.

m

Well, I'm a mid 60's guy and my kids are all away from home--so I'm on my own! But, to your question: you adjust the Brightness on the display. With my hlp (and probably others too) the display remembers different settings from different sources, so these settings for Brightness, etc., that you make will be remembered specifically when you choose the DVD as your source.

Hi bucky63,

Thanks for your input. Unfortunately, I am only using a Sony receiver, so I have to use those 6-channel analog connection between Sony n 2910. As for those perimeter on your Mem 2 n OFF, are they factory default or you have to set them yourself.





Originally posted by bucky63
Pure Direct on the 2910 does work with the 5.1 outs. How I decide to use them is to setup Pure Direct like this...

Normal - Digital - On, Video - On, Display - On
MEM 1 - Digital - Off, Video - On, Display - On
MEM 2 - Digital - Off, Video - OFF, Display - On
Off - Digital - Off, Video - Off, Display - Off

With SACDs, I use Mem 2 or OFF.

With DVD-A ,I use MEM 1 if I want to see the video or MEM 2 (or OFF) if I don't want to see the video. I rarely use MEM 1 for DVD-A because I don't want to see the video while listening to a DVD-A.

I believe both the 3803 and the 3805 do not digitally process the incoming signal from the 6 channel analog ins. Other receivers and processors might. These Denon receivers have a Pure Direct mode that turns off the Digital, Video and Display making the receiver a simple analog amplifier. There is also a Direct Sound Mode turns off any processes other then taking a digital signal (if present), up-convert it using AL24 (if PCM) and dump it to the D/As (if needed).

So, to get the cleanest sound, I use the 2910's Pure Direct MEM 2 or OFF and my 3803's Pure Direct when listing to multi-channel SACDs or DVD-As. Like I said, I believe I hear a cleaner and more detailed sound using the Pure Direct over not using them. :)

I also thought the Pure Direct only affect SACD n DVD-audio, does it make a difference when you are watching a DVD-video disc in DTS or AC3 mode ?

Originally posted by millerwill
Well, I'm a mid 60's guy and my kids are all away from home--so I'm on my own! But, to your question: you adjust the Brightness on the display. With my hlp (and probably others too) the display remembers different settings from different sources, so these settings for Brightness, etc., that you make will be remembered specifically when you choose the DVD as your source.

thanks again. So I have 10 yrs to catch up with you on this AV stuff!!

UPDATE*********
I posted earlier in this thread about my 2910 shaking and humming and making alot of noise with some discs. Well, I went up to Tweeter today as the replacement finally arrived. We tested the new 2910 there in the store and it was quiet as a mouse so my original player(not the way the dvds were made) that was the problem THANKFULLY :) So, if you're having problems with your 2910/3910 shaking badly with certain dvds you may want to check on an exchange for it...

HELP!

So I got my Denon 2910 "-5" firmware in the mail a couple days ago and applied it using the instructions it came with. The only difference is that my DVD player is connected to my TV via component cables. I'm hoping this isn't the problem. (On a side note, I should've been concerned when their update CD is on a CD-R with "2910" handwritten on it!)

I then turned the 2910 back on to comfirm the firmware: ESS 6720-5.

I then popped in a DVD. The disc spun up, played a few seconds of the main menu on the DVD, and then the video disappeared and the 2910 spat the disc out. I tried this on several other DVDs - same problem on all of them!

I then tried reloading the firmware again, following the directions to the letter. No go. I did notice that the player would only say "Writing" while their instructions say I should see it flashing between "erasing" and "writing".

What do I do now? Has anyone else run into this issue? I'd hate to have to return this to Denon for repair. I do believe I bought a warranty plan on the player, so I may be able to return it to Tweeter directly.

Originally posted by tennberg
HELP!

What do I do now? Has anyone else run into this issue? I'd hate to have to return this to Denon for repair. I do believe I bought a warranty plan on the player, so I may be able to return it to Tweeter directly.

Check with Denon to see if there is a RESET command. I know the Panasonic players would sometimes get hung up after a software update and there is a specific series of buttons that will cause the player to completely reset.

Thanks for the warning. Please keep us posted on how the problem is resolved.

So, I found another post on this forum that mentioned reseting the Denon 2910 after a firmware update. I found the instructions on how to do this in my owner's manual.

I first reapplied the -5 firmware. After I turned the player back on, I held down the skip button and play button, then the open/close button until I saw "Initialize" on the TV screen (see owner's manual for instructions on this!). I held the buttons down until "Initialize" disappeared. I was then able to play any DVD without the 2910 resetting and spitting the disc out.

Couple comments:

1. I noticed the color was a bit "off" after the firmware application. I found someone else's settings in here and set my player to them. I am now getting excellent color from my movies through component.

2. When trying to initialize the 2910, I must've pressed a wrong key combination because I noticed the DVD's LCD screen saying "Writing CPPM." I waited for about 5 minutes to see if this went away, but it didn't. I then turned off the player and restarted it.

Does anyone know why it did this, if it affected anything, and if I shoudl do another reset on the player because of it?

Thanks!

OK, I've just tried my 2910 with IRE set to 0. On calibrating with DVE it does NOT show the 3 black bars in the 'pulge' patterns in Title 12, no matter how high I set Brightness; i.e., it does not pass BTB. It also crushes whites very severely; i.e., in Chapter 14 of Title 12, 5 or 6 of the highest while panels all loose their distinction.

With IRE set to 7.5, however, it does indeed pass BTB ( i.e., the 3 black bars show up very prominently) and discriminates between all the white panels. This leads me to conclude that IRE should always be set to 7.5. Does anyone find differently? (This is all with the Black Enhancement set to Normal.)

With the new firmware upgrade (xxxxx-5), is there consensus now on whether to use the RGB or YCrCb option on HDMI output? (I'm using 720p out to a Sammy hlpxx63.) I'm using YCrCb, and to my unprofessional eye I can't see any difference between it and RGB, but perhaps some more experienced persons can.

Originally posted by millerwill
OK, I've just tried my 2910 with IRE set to 0. On calibrating with DVE it does NOT show the 3 black bars in the 'pulge' patterns in Title 12, no matter how high I set Brightness; i.e., it does not pass BTB. It also crushes whites very severely; i.e., in Chapter 14 of Title 12, 5 or 6 of the highest while panels all loose their distinction.

With IRE set to 7.5, however, it does indeed pass BTB ( i.e., the 3 black bars show up very prominently) and discriminates between all the white panels. This leads me to conclude that IRE should always be set to 7.5. Does anyone find differently? (This is all with the Black Enhancement set to Normal.)

Depends on what display you are using.

If your display is expecting computer signals via DVI, for example, then "expanded" black is probably correct. If your disiplay is expecting a PAL signal, then 0 IRE is probably best.

I've got a Sanyo Z2 and have found the best blacks are when the player's black level is enhanced, the IRE = 0, AND the player's brightness is increased by 1. I see all the steps in the step patterns, and I can see the BTB bar in DVE, if I want.

Note that my results don't jibe well with what SHOULD be the case. In theory, setting black to normal and IRE to 7.5 is correct.

I thank Denon for offering this flexibility. But it seems to mean that experimentation is necessary.

Originally posted by millerwill
OK, I've just tried my 2910 with IRE set to 0. On calibrating with DVE it does NOT show the 3 black bars in the 'pulge' patterns in Title 12, no matter how high I set Brightness; i.e., it does not pass BTB. It also crushes whites very severely; i.e., in Chapter 14 of Title 12, 5 or 6 of the highest while panels all loose their distinction.

With IRE set to 7.5, however, it does indeed pass BTB ( i.e., the 3 black bars show up very prominently) and discriminates between all the white panels. This leads me to conclude that IRE should always be set to 7.5. Does anyone find differently? (This is all with the Black Enhancement set to Normal.)

Now I am confused. Can't recall which forum but I believe it was this one where their were several posts each recommending that 2910 owners set Black Enhancement to "Normal" and the IRE to "0", instead of the factory 7.5. And now we get a post that says otherwise. Not trying to question millerwills expertise and result but would like to know whether I am remembering correctly...

And did millerwill try using Avia??

thanks

mismatched

nathan_h: What you say makes sense, i.e., that it does depend on the display. Mine is a Sammy hlp 6163, and with it I could definitely NOT see the BTB bar.

mismatched: Please do question my expertise, which is next to nil (I'm a prof of theoretical chemistry, and a TOTAL amateur in all this HT stuff, only knowing what I've picked up from all you guys). I have AVIA and do use it sometimes (mostly for audio settings) but find DVE much more specific for video settings; and AVIA does not show the BTB bar. I think nathan_h is probably right in that it depends on the display, so my observations are specific to a hlpxx63.

Hi all,

I'm curious how those of you with high-end displays, whether they be CRT, plasma, LCD, or DLP, calibrated your 2910 in conjunction with your display to get the optimal picture.

Currently, my 2910 is hooked into my Sony KD-34XBR960 via component cables into Video 6 on the TV.

Did you first calibrate the TV with a standard calibration device to get the optimal picture on the set and then pop in a calibration DVD and use the settings on the 2910 to calibrate it even further?

I was thinking about getting my set ISF-calibrated. The guy I spoke to has a device that would plug into my TV do display a test picture, which he would then use to calibrate my Sony with *its* color/picture controls.

He then said he would use DVE and other things to calibrate the 2910 on its video input. using the 2910's picture controls. I'm just curious how familiar one has to be with the 2910 to professionally calibrate it. Last night was the first night I really dove into the picture settings and, man, I don't even know what half of them mean, especially the setting where it looks like G0 249 G7 281, etc.

Thanks for your insight!

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread - amazing and very helpful.
I just got a 2910 and am in the process of setting it up, but have one question unrelated to setup.
Will the 2910 be able to play HD DVD's when they come out or will I need another DVD player for that ?? Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by agro1
Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread - amazing and very helpful.
I just got a 2910 and am in the process of setting it up, but have one question unrelated to setup.
Will the 2910 be able to play HD DVD's when they come out or will I need another DVD player for that ?? Thanks in advance.

NO.

However, if there does end up being a dual layer DVD/HD-DVD media format, the 2910 will probably be able to play the DVD content layer.

Originally posted by agro1
Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread - amazing and very helpful.
I just got a 2910 and am in the process of setting it up, but have one question unrelated to setup.
Will the 2910 be able to play HD DVD's when they come out or will I need another DVD player for that ?? Thanks in advance.

unfortunately the answer is a "No".

Thanks for the quick replies guys - so if HD DVD is going to be superior to ANY upsampling DVD player on the market now (like the 2910), why would anyone buy the 2910 if it will be obsolete (for video playback) later this year ?? I assume any HD DVD player that comes out will also play NON-HD DVD's...This makes me think I should return the 2910 I bought yesterday...

agro1:

I read that HD-DVD players will not be widely available in the U.S. until the end of 2005 or early into 2006. Even once those are out, I am sure the content available on the HD-DVD format will be severely limited. I am not picturing HD-DVDs and players to be widely available at a reasonable cost until the Q2 or Q3 of 2006.

So, with that said, I would feel comfortable buying an upscaling DVD player like the 2910 right now and enjoy it for a couple years.

And how long will it be before the selection of HD DVDs matches what is available at the time on SD DVDs???

Tennberg: you make a very good point, and I'm sure the initial cost basis on the HD players will be quite high with very limited material to actually play on them (similar to what happened when DVD Audio came out) - as you stated. Thanks for putting it into perspective.

Originally posted by tennberg
Currently, my 2910 is hooked into my Sony KD-34XBR960 via component cables into Video 6 on the TV.

I have an XBR960 as well and am considering the 2910, but was wondering why you went with component inputs over the HDMI input on the 960. Did you find the picture quality was better, or have you not tested it out yet? Thanks.

tennberg, when I had my Samsung DLP ISF'ed, the difference in PQ was night and day! I could slap myself for waiting so long to do it. After I got the 2910, I had the DVI input ISF calibrated as well.

I don't regret it. This set sees the pluge pattern perfectly and color temp is right at 6500 degrees. Very nice picture and color saturation. It was amazing how the before and after readings differed. The trick is to find a competent ISF certified technician.

Originally posted by Smackrabbit
I have an XBR960 as well and am considering the 2910, but was wondering why you went with component inputs over the HDMI input on the 960. Did you find the picture quality was better, or have you not tested it out yet? Thanks.

Smack:

I actually spoke to an ISF technician about this. Since he referred to the XBR960 as an "analog" set (unlike LCD or plasma), he said I would not gain any benefit from HDMI. He said as long as I have quality component cables, I should be able to get a great picture from the 2910 once it's calibrated.

I also have not tested an HDMI-HDMI connection, so who knows. Maybe one weekend I'll feel like running a comparison.

I have tested the Component VS the DVI (my 36HS520 Sony does not have HDMI)....I can tell you the picture is better/sharper thru DVI. And I believe it was due to the pure digital signal its getting via DVI. I will say that the component cables that I have are good, they are thick/gold plated and cost like 65 bucks or so when I got them. I am using a DVI400 Monster cable. I notice the picture is sharper in DVI however the component cables have deeper/richer colors than the DVI cable. Also the other main this is that you can "upconvert" thru DVI or HDMI but not component so you may loose a little. All in all, I pefer the DVI over component and if your TV is a HDTV or HDTV ready, I am willing to bet you will like the HDMI more.

Good luck

thx,
Claude

Originally posted by tennberg

I actually spoke to an ISF technician about this. Since he referred to the XBR960 as an "analog" set (unlike LCD or plasma), he said I would not gain any benefit from HDMI.
XBR960 is a hdtv crt monitor. How can it be an " analog set"? Why does it have a digital input if no benefit would be gained using it?

I have XBR910, hdtv ready monitor. It has a DVI input (no HMDI) and PQ from my 2910 is noticeably better (sharper and less green push) under component hookup than under DVI. I didn't expect this result when I bought it.

Component cables I'm using are Bettercable (2 meter)
DVI cable I´m using is Monstercable DVI 500 (2 meter)

Octavio

I agree with you that DVI/HDMI is much much much better than component, except for a few stubborn fellow, who keep saying component is better because they won't spend the money on a decent DVI/HDMI cable(like Monster or Audioquest etc.). But rather using those cheap DVI cables which were made for computer purpose, n complaining about sparklies n picture unsteadiness. The reason why component cable gives you a richer color is because the analog cable's tonal characteristic is being added on to the signal, which is similar to what we call COLORATION in hiend audio. And that's why when I switched from component to DVI/HDMI, my first impression is the color tone right on without much calibration.

Then again if the DVI/HDMI is on even step with component on picture quality, why would the makers even bother to design it.


:D :D :D

Originally posted by ac388
...The reason why component cable gives you a richer color is because the analog cable's tonal characteristic is being added on to the signal, which is similar to what we call COLORATION in hiend audio.... My friend, could you elaborate a bit on cable "tonal characteristics".... I would like to learn some details about it. What do we look for on this parameter when choosing between cable vendors/models?
;)

Originally posted by jazzcat
tennberg, when I had my Samsung DLP ISF'ed, the difference in PQ was night and day! I could slap myself for waiting so long to do it. After I got the 2910, I had the DVI input ISF calibrated as well.

I don't regret it. This set sees the pluge pattern perfectly and color temp is right at 6500 degrees. Very nice picture and color saturation. It was amazing how the before and after readings differed. The trick is to find a competent ISF certified technician.

Ok you have convinced me to ISF. Now how to find a good tech?? Any one in the Portland OR area out there listening???

mismatched

I just bought a Panasonic S97 and the macroblocking is pretty bad. I was looking at the Denon 1910 but that's probably the same. Should I step up to this player if the MB is bothering me this much?

You might try the Sammy 941. If it doesn't do it for you, then I think you better be prepared to go up to the 2910.

So, let's say I decide to go with HDMI from the 2910 to my Sony XBR960...

I also have a Motorola HDTV cable box with component and DVI out. Right now I am using the component out on that as well.

Since the XBR960 has only 1 digital video input, should I use it for the 2910 or for my HDTV cable box? WIth the 2910, it would be HDMI-to-HDMI while the cable box would be DVI-to-HDMI.

Thanks!

Originally posted by BobDyl
OK, here's a question for you all. I have a 2910 hooked up to a Panny 507UY plasma via DVI. I love the player, the picture just looks fantastic. However, it looks fantastic at ALL resolutions. I cannot for the life of me see *any* difference between the DVI 480p image, 720p, or 1080i.

They all look *exactly* the same to me.

Do you guys really see major differences when upsampling?

-Bob

I just got the 2910 and hooked it up via DVI to my Fujitsu P50 plasma. I concur - I see no difference so far between 480p, 720p and 1080i. I've only tested 1-2 DVDs so far, but I really couldn't see a difference.

So, let's say I decide to go with HDMI from the 2910 to my Sony XBR960...

I also have a Motorola HDTV cable box with component and DVI out. Right now I am using the component out on that as well.

Since the XBR960 has only 1 digital video input, should I use it for the 2910 or for my HDTV cable box? WIth the 2910, it would be HDMI-to-HDMI while the cable box would be DVI-to-HDMII'd put the cable box on component, since standard definition signals sometimes seem to look better over component. Or better yet, get a DVI switcher and keep the digital signal path for both sources.

Originally posted by millerwill
Mine is a Sammy hlp 6163, and with it I could definitely NOT see the BTB bar.

Your results differ from mine, millerwill. Using DVE on my HLP-5063, I can see BTB both with IRE 0 and IRE 7.5 (set on "Normal" -- I can't remember if I tested with "Enhanced" as well, don't think so). The results I got were that the brightness need to be brought up from 38 (at IRE 7.5) to 48 (at IRE 0).

How come nobody ever talks about the audio quality of this player? I'm an audio freak.Video a far second.How does it compare to the pioneer 45 or 47?I'm currently running a SACD player but want to get into universal.I've tried 45,47,yamaha & think they all suck for SACD.How does the 2910 & 955s fair for SACD?HELP MISTER WIZARD!!!!!!!

Originally posted by tennberg
So, let's say I decide to go with HDMI from the 2910 to my Sony XBR960...

I also have a Motorola HDTV cable box with component and DVI out. Right now I am using the component out on that as well.

Since the XBR960 has only 1 digital video input, should I use it for the 2910 or for my HDTV cable box? WIth the 2910, it would be HDMI-to-HDMI while the cable box would be DVI-to-HDMI.

Thanks!

I would use the HDMI hook up on the 2910 since you can "upconvert" to 720P or 1080I. My 36in Sony is Natively 1080I. I dont notice much or any difference from going from 480P to 720P but when I hit 1080I on the 2910, I can definetly see a sharper/clearer more vivid picture. If you are gonna use component, (IN MY OPINION) you would have been better off getting the 2900 model (from what I have read here). I bought this player for its upconvert cability and dont regret it.

I would recommend trying them both (component and HDMI) and see which you prefer. I believe once you see the "upconvert" picture. You will not be using the component cables.

I too have only only DVI input on my TV and I use that for my 2910. The component cables go for my comcast HD cable and another set of component for my Xbox. My Comcast HD box has the DVI output but I could not see that much difference in picture quality between DVI or component except sligthly richer colors with component. With the 2910, it was a different story, DVI was better.

Hope that helps,
Claude

Originally posted by bruce73
Your results differ from mine, millerwill. Using DVE on my HLP-5063, I can see BTB both with IRE 0 and IRE 7.5 (set on "Normal" -- I can't remember if I tested with "Enhanced" as well, don't think so). The results I got were that the brightness need to be brought up from 38 (at IRE 7.5) to 48 (at IRE 0).

Interesting. I can't think of anything I could have been doing differently. I did not see the 3rd (BTB) bar even if I took the Brightness all the way to 100. With IRE = 7.5, I have Brightness ~42 to 46. Strange.

I would be interested to hear other persons experiences with this.

Originally posted by tennberg
HELP!

So I got my Denon 2910 "-5" firmware in the mail a couple days ago and applied it using the instructions it came with. The only difference is that my DVD player is connected to my TV via component cables. I'm hoping this isn't the problem. (On a side note, I should've been concerned when their update CD is on a CD-R with "2910" handwritten on it!)

I then turned the 2910 back on to comfirm the firmware: ESS 6720-5.

I then popped in a DVD. The disc spun up, played a few seconds of the main menu on the DVD, and then the video disappeared and the 2910 spat the disc out. I tried this on several other DVDs - same problem on all of them!

I then tried reloading the firmware again, following the directions to the letter. No go. I did notice that the player would only say "Writing" while their instructions say I should see it flashing between "erasing" and "writing".

What do I do now? Has anyone else run into this issue? I'd hate to have to return this to Denon for repair. I do believe I bought a warranty plan on the player, so I may be able to return it to Tweeter directly.

You're not alone. My player did the same thing after the firmware update "fix"-- spitting the disc out, closing the tray, reloading, spitting the disc out, and so on. Reapplying the firmware fixed that problem, but has made menu navigation painfully slow at 1080i.

Since I thought I was the only one with this problem, I e-mailed Denon, and they are sending me another firmware fix. Maybe somwhere there's a flaw in the fix.

Originally posted by bferr1
You're not alone. My player did the same thing after the firmware update "fix"-- spitting the disc out, closing the tray, reloading, spitting the disc out, and so on. Reapplying the firmware fixed that problem, but has made menu navigation painfully slow at 1080i.

Since I thought I was the only one with this problem, I e-mailed Denon, and they are sending me another firmware fix. Maybe somwhere there's a flaw in the fix.

bferr1: I'm curious if the fix they send you is higher than "-5". If it is, hey, I live in Medford :-)

I'm curious about this whole firmware fix. When I finally decided to reset the player, attemping to push the buttons to reset it resulted in me seeing "Writing CPPM" on the player's LCD display. I then reapplied the firmware, and did another reset. Everything seems to be alright at the moment.

To all:

If I did a comparison between HDMI and component on my 2910, can I have both sets of cables plugged in from there to my TV, and just switch between the video inputs on my TV? I figure that would be the best way to see an almost side-by-side comparison.

If I can use both, could I set the HDMI output to upconvert to 1080i the whole time while switching between the two, or can it only be set while on the HDMI output?

"If I did a comparison between HDMI and component on my 2910, can I have both sets of cables plugged in from there to my TV, and just switch between the video inputs on my TV? I figure that would be the best way to see an almost side-by-side comparison. "

There's no problem with the cable connections. But it won't be an instant A/B comparison change because in addition to switching your TV's inputs, you'll have to toggle through the 2910's settings for HDMI (2 flavors), DVI, and DVI off to get the component connections active.

Originally posted by tennberg
To all:

If I did a comparison between HDMI and component on my 2910, can I have both sets of cables plugged in from there to my TV, and just switch between the video inputs on my TV? I figure that would be the best way to see an almost side-by-side comparison.

If I can use both, could I set the HDMI output to upconvert to 1080i the whole time while switching between the two, or can it only be set while on the HDMI output?

You can have both cables plugged into the TV and the 2910, however every time you switch over to HDMI you will have to chose HDMI format on the Denon 2910. It will save the 1080I setting for HDMI. Note the 2910 will only not output 1080I in component (only DVI and HDMI).

The way you suggested, is the same way I did the comparion on my TV but with the DVI cable vs component. You will notice the difference :)

Good Luck,
Claude

Originally posted by tennberg
If I did a comparison between HDMI and component on my 2910, can I have both sets of cables plugged in from there to my TV, and just switch between the video inputs on my TV? I figure that would be the best way to see an almost side-by-side comparison.

If I can use both, could I set the HDMI output to upconvert to 1080i the whole time while switching between the two, or can it only be set while on the HDMI output?

I have done this, but the component has to be set to interlaced (IIRC -- I'm at work -- HDMI/DVI has to be set to "Off" in order to get component/progressive output). I don't quite understand your second question. Your choice of format with HDMI will stick as you toggle the inputs to your TV, if that's what you mean.

BTW: spent 4 years in Medford at Tufts -- what a great time in my life!

Originally posted by tennberg
So, let's say I decide to go with HDMI from the 2910 to my Sony XBR960...

I also have a Motorola HDTV cable box with component and DVI out. Right now I am using the component out on that as well.

Since the XBR960 has only 1 digital video input, should I use it for the 2910 or for my HDTV cable box? WIth the 2910, it would be HDMI-to-HDMI while the cable box would be DVI-to-HDMI.

Thanks!

I am using DVI from STB to my HLP5674 Sammy and HDMI from my 2910 to the Sammy and have been very happy especially after the firmware -5 upgrade. I have not heard that components can give you better SD. The SD will never look as good as teh HD no matter what you do. but with Tweaks and "understanding" you can live with SD.

mismatched

PS the 2910 is a great player!

All this I am reading about green push and a firmware upgrade. Is it only an issue with HDMI? I am hooked up DVI - DVI and have never seen any green push.

mismatched, I agree that this player is great video AND audio wise!

I have done this, but the component has to be set to interlaced (IIRC -- I'm at work -- HDMI/DVI has to be set to "Off" in order to get component/progressive output). I don't quite understand your second question. Your choice of format with HDMI will stick as you toggle the inputs to your TV, if that's what you mean.


From my experience, this is not true. The component can be set to progressive. But it may vary with your TV, because some TVs can't accept 480p.

I'm using a Sharp 37" LCD and the component setting definitely does not have to be on "interlaced."

Originally posted by jazzcat
tennberg, when I had my Samsung DLP ISF'ed, the difference in PQ was night and day! I could slap myself for waiting so long to do it. After I got the 2910, I had the DVI input ISF calibrated as well.

I don't regret it. This set sees the pluge pattern perfectly and color temp is right at 6500 degrees. Very nice picture and color saturation. It was amazing how the before and after readings differed. The trick is to find a competent ISF certified technician.
Who did you use? I'm not far from you and also want to get ISF cal on my Sammy DLP. Also, is your Sammy HLN or HLP?

Originally posted by flex727
Who did you use? I'm not far from you and also want to get ISF cal on my Sammy DLP. Also, is your Sammy HLN or HLP?

I used one of the top recommended in this area. PM me if you want additional info/reference.

http://www.smartcalibration.com/

I have the original HLM507 I got from the first Samsung/AVS/TVS powerbuy here. After seeing it ISF'ed I have no plans to upgrade to a newer Sammy model anytime soon! :D

this site is a joke.You ask questions about audio & nobody knows or cares.Guess they might as well drop the audio out in the AVS forum.

Most of the people interested in the best audio stick with the 2900 or the new 3910. The 2910 is a step down from both. There is a lot of info on this earlier in this thread and others.

I was just wondering how this compares to other universal players such as the pioneer 45 or 47 which in my opinion suck big time at SACD.Is the 2910 more detailed &crisp as compared to the 47 which makes all SACD's sound like a movie track

Originally posted by tunerguy
I was just wondering how this compares to other universal players such as the pioneer 45 or 47 which in my opinion suck big time at SACD.Is the 2910 more detailed &crisp as compared to the 47 which makes all SACD's sound like a movie track


I used to own a Pio 755(same as 47) n later a higher model 858, both of them have problem on Bass management, that my sufwoofer will not activate, even when the output was at its max.. However, when I set my 2910 bass output to the max., my subwoofer works normaly, so I can calibrate its volume at 75db as I did with other channels, when using the Test Tone on my dvd player. With the Pio, the subwoofer will not come on when doing the same Test Tone.

Originally posted by Lanny3
From my experience, this is not true. The component can be set to progressive. But it may vary with your TV, because some TVs can't except 480p.

What I meant, if I understood correctly, was that to toggle back and forth between component and HDMI in more or less real time, it is necessary to select interlaced in the setup, since progressive would necessitate turning the HDMI/DVI selection to "Off" each time (i.e. the unit can output from only one of the HDMI, DVI or progressive component connections). Just saving time from not having to perform those extra steps, that's all.

I would think the denon dvd-3800 for good audio players should be in here too. It also has the al24 processing. For video from the specs and posts, it should rank just above the dvd-2900 for component 480 resolution also. Yet I don't see many people mention it much.


Originally posted by nathan_h
Most of the people interested in the best audio stick with the 2900 or the new 3910. The 2910 is a step down from both. There is a lot of info on this earlier in this thread and others.

I JUST picked up my 2910 earlier today. Just out of curiosity - What brand HDMI cables are you guys using? Ive read a thread where it really doesnt make a difference but I am still curios what brands you all use and how much they cost you. The Denon is right to the side of the TV so I dont need a long cable. I just went to Bettercables and its about $80.00...

Oh yeah - HDMI to HDMI to my Sammy DLP6163W...

I got mine from Pacific Cable (http://www.pacificcable.com/HDMI_Cables.html) for ~$30 + shipping.

In the specs the 2900 uses the same DSD chip as the 2910 so you would think that it would read the same & sound the same.

Originally posted by Lanny3
From my experience, this is not true. The component can be set to progressive. But it may vary with your TV, because some TVs can't accept 480p.

I'm using a Sharp 37" LCD and the component setting definitely does not have to be on "interlaced."

I have to concur with Bruce73. You can have your HDMI settings on, and as long as video output is set to Interlaced, you can switch inputs on your TV and do A/B comparisons between analog and digital outs. The player outputs both at the same time. I have done this myself.

If you have video output set to Progressive, analog output is disabled when HDMI is on. It does not output both at the same time. You can still switch between TV inputs to do A/B testing, but you have to manually turn HDMI on and off accordingly.

I have a Sony KP-51WS510, which can definitely accept 480i, 480p and 1080i, so this is not due to a limitation with my television. It is a limitation within the player itself.

Originally posted by Neo9710
I JUST picked up my 2910 earlier today. Just out of curiosity - What brand HDMI cables are you guys using? Ive read a thread where it really doesnt make a difference but I am still curios what brands you all use and how much they cost you. The Denon is right to the side of the TV so I dont need a long cable. I just went to Bettercables and its about $80.00...

Oh yeah - HDMI to HDMI to my Sammy DLP6163W...

I also use Pacific Cable, just 1 meter, since the 2910 sits in the tv stand just below it. Has been fine.

Originally posted by tunerguy
In the specs the 2900 uses the same DSD chip as the 2910 so you would think that it would read the same & sound the same.

Apparently, the complete signal path in the 2900 is of higher quality overall, though they share some components. And since the 2900 is being discounted heavily (local shop had their last one discounted below the price of the 2910) if audio is the top priority, it's probably worth finding one.

Originally posted by bferr1
...I have a Sony KP-51WS510, which can definitely accept 480i, 480p and 1080i, so this is not due to a limitation with my television. It is a limitation within the player itself.

Exactly. Same with my HLP-5063. I tried pausing a scene from "Independence Day" (pretty much the best way to watch this one...:rolleyes: ), and would toggle back and forth between component/interlaced and HDMI, and I did notice a very slight greenish cast to the HDMI output (even more evident with the opening Menu's text), but nothing unacceptable (by my less-than-stringent standards). I've applied the ~5 firmware upgrade, but haven't re-tested this yet.

Actually through all this, I realized that I could leave the component setting on Interlaced, which won't affect the HDMI output for DVDs, and use the component output to watch my SVCDs, the majority of which are letterboxed 4:3. This gives me the Zoom1 option on the 5063. While not the same quality obviously as DVD/HDMI (mainly considering the source), still very watchable.

DVI is RGB not component with separate horz. and vet. sync.
but still, how come the momitsu v880 and zenith dvb318 can get it right with no green push and Denon can't?
The green push on my 3910 is ONLY when using dvi or hdmi.component and my sdi connection look great so is it something in the faraoudja 2310 chip that can be corrected?

Dumb ? #531480

I have a 2910 hooked up to my Sammy 5674 via HDMI. I have it set for 720i output via HDMI to the display. Everything seems to be working but I notice that when I turn on the DVD player the following flashes just to the left of the time read-out: HDMI/720i. It does this when I play a CD but NOT when I turn on the Sammy. Is there a way to inactivate this annoying flashing when I just want to play CDs and dont want to turn on my Sammy?? not a big deal but ...

thanks

mismatched

Originally posted by mismatched
Is there a way to inactivate this annoying flashing when I just want to play CDs and dont want to turn on my Sammy??

Turning the HDMI selection to "HDMI/DVI Off" with the remote should do it.

bruce73

Will I to need to rechoose HDMI "video out" on the front panel of the 2910 before I play a DVD movie???

m

mismatched:

Yes, if you wish to output via HDMI (or DVI). If you have it on "Off" the component/progressive output is active (assuming you have "Progressive" selected in the Setup\Video section).

Originally posted by ZZtop
I would think the denon dvd-3800 for good audio players should be in here too. It also has the al24 processing. For video from the specs and posts, it should rank just above the dvd-2900 for component 480 resolution also. Yet I don't see many people mention it much.

I think many people perceive that model as snake-bit because of production problems. "Secrets" is more negative than it would be if they tested models that have all the factory fixes installed. I own it myself and agree with your take on it.

Is it possible for the 2910 to output audio in 5.1 analog, optical and 2CH analog simultaneously? I have our 2910 connected to a Dell 42" plasma via HDMI, and the 5.1 analog and optical outs to a 3805. I would like to be able to select DVD as my source for Zone #2 on the 3805. It has been my experience so far with the 3805 that it will only play Zone #2 sources that are connected via 2CH analog. When I tried to also connect the 2910 to the 3805 via 2CH analog (while keeping the optical and 5.1 analog connected), I do not receive any audio in Zone #2. I have tried connecting the RCA cables to several unused sources on the 3805 without any luck.

Is it possible to do this, or do you have to disable the multichannel output in order to enable the 2CH output?

Thanks :)!

Is it possible to do this, or do you have to disable the multichannel output in order to enable the 2CH output

Im not sure if this is what your looking for but I have the two channel outs of the 3910 connected to a stereo pre and the 5.1 outs and digital out of the 3910 connected to a ht reciever..I am able to switch on the fly between the 2 channel out and the 5.1 outs without a problem. Ive been a/b-ing the two channel outs of the 3910 this way..so at least I know that you dont have to disable one to get the other to work

I have the 2910 hooked up to my Pioneer 503 plasma at last via DVI, I am not seeing too much macroblocking but I am having a hard time determining the right black levels. I am sure that is a matter of tweaking the settings of IRE and normal/enhanced black levels.


The pioneer plasmas tend to use computer monitor timing and resolution.

I have to say my first impression is that the 720p is a little grainy and NOT as good as my Bravo D1. Now the Bravo does 1:1 pixel mapping and frequency matching, which the Denon does not. I am beginning to wonder if that bit of scaling magic that the Bravo's do already has the Pioneer plasmas showing as good as they can possibly get via DVI unless you buy a DiDo HD scalier perhaps. This is an unpleasant surprise as I paid 650$ plus tax at the local Tweeter for the 2910 and the Bravo was like 199$ 2 years ago.

I also have a nasty green push, I was watching a Star Trek Voyager dvd and the borg queen is this wicked green and so are alot of lights that should not be.

I have the -4 firmware version. Denon shipped me the -5 firmware a week ago but do not have it yet. I have a large email box, any kind soul want to email it to me?

Anyone else have this player wired to a plasma via DVI, especially anyone with a Pioneer plasma?

What black level settings do you use and do you see green push?

macroblocking question

I have the 2910 (firmware upgraded to ~5) connected HDMI->HDMI to an HLP-5063. I watched "Bourne Identity" for the first time last night and noticed a couple of things:

1) The film had a greenish tint to it...by design?

2) In the scene where Bourne cuts the girl's hair, there is a shot of him standing in front of the room's wall, which has a greenish gradient color. It looked somewhat "blotchy" (like you would get with a bad encode of a ripped DVD). I switched over to component/interlaced and it wasn't so pronounced (and also slightly less green). Is this the macroblocking that's been discussed? I thought macroblocking was only seen in near black to black solids and was more exaggerated, i.e. "blockier".

I thought people were discussing Bourne Supremacy as having the green tint but I suspect it's the movie. And no, macroblocking doesn't have to be during a dark scene, that's just where it's most prominent. Whether that was macroblocking, though, is up to someone else with the 2910 and that movie, because I don't know.

I saw ZZ top live with Skynerd a couple of years ago & they lefy skynerd running away with their tails between their legs.Better show.

I have the -4 firmware version. Denon shipped me the -5 firmware a week ago but do not have it yet. I have a large email box, any kind soul want to email it to me?

Just download a copy from Denon if you can't wait:



Click me (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/regtest.asp)

Originally posted by Lanny3
Just download a copy from Denon if you can't wait:



Click me (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/regtest.asp)

Thank you kind sir, they ask for a serial number and then let you download the firmware, not bad. I asked Denon on the phone and they repeatedly told me no, odd its so easy to get online.

Well, just finished watching my first movie on my NEW Denon. Manufacture date - September 2004 so I believe I don't need an update. So, heres to all the sammy owners (especially HLP6163 owners). Unfortunately, I watched Collateral as my first one and I did see the green tint. Most likely it was the lighting conditions but it was there. Underexposed or darker scenes seemed to bring out the green but the picture was sure a heck of a lot better than my old Pioneer..

I ordered my AVIA and that other disk already so it should come soon. I also dont have that many hours on my new TV set. So now that several of you have had a chance to tweak and prod through some settings, what have you come up with? Interlaced or Progressive? 1080i or something else? Enhanced black? Maybe we should start a thread for just Sammy owners...HDMI connection of course.

I just started a new thread for Sammy owners....

neo9710

I think most would recommend determining the firmware version on your 2910. Somewhere in this thread or the 2910 firmware thread is the instructions for doing so. It is worth looking. I don't think that your build date guarantees that you have the -5 version firmware.

To verify your firmware version:

1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit. (This is the REAL power button, not the standby one with the lighted disc around it.)

2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.

3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.

4. After "LOADING" shows on the display, press the 3, 2, 6, 5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button.

You should then see the Firmware version on the unit's display.

The most recent firmware appears to be ESS-6720-5


regarding settings for Sammy s the concensus is that you do not use enhance black out of your 2910, set it to normal, use 720p and set the IRE to 0. keep looking thru this thread as their are plenty of us lucky ones with Sammy's.

Stuff:

Sammy 6574
Denon 3805
Denon 2910
B&W speakers
Moto 6412 STB

mismatched

ps what is the link to the thread you started??

Originally posted by mismatched
neo9710



regarding settings for Sammy s the concensus is that you do not use enhance black out of your 2910, set it to normal, use 720p and set the IRE to 0. keep looking thru this thread as their are plenty of us lucky ones with Sammy's.



I do not think the there is a consensus for setting IRE=0 on Sammy's via HDMI. When I tried this, I could not see the BTB bar in DVE, while I could with IRE set to 7.5. I would certainly appreciate hearing from as many people as possible on their experience with this question.

Originally posted by mismatched
neo9710

I think most would recommend determining the firmware version on your 2910. Somewhere in this thread or the 2910 firmware thread is the instructions for doing so. It is worth looking. I don't think that your build date guarantees that you have the -5 version firmware.

To verify your firmware version:

1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit. (This is the REAL power button, not the standby one with the lighted disc around it.)

2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.

3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.

4. After "LOADING" shows on the display, press the 3, 2, 6, 5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button.

You should then see the Firmware version on the unit's display.

The most recent firmware appears to be ESS-6720-5


regarding settings for Sammy s the concensus is that you do not use enhance black out of your 2910, set it to normal, use 720p and set the IRE to 0. keep looking thru this thread as their are plenty of us lucky ones with Sammy's.

Stuff:

Sammy 6574
Denon 3805
Denon 2910
B&W speakers
Moto 6412 STB

mismatched

ps what is the link to the thread you started??

Here's the link...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=484547

And my version is ESS-6720-4. Thanks looking out Mismatched! Man, I am out of blank CD's!!

Just downloaded the firmware and installed it without a hitch. Picture looks awesome...

But where is this IRE setting? I have my TV set on Cinema also...

IRE setting is under the picture control. Bottom row of buttons on remote, second from left. The menu will have a default followed by M1 - M5 if I remember, and then Set. Go into the last option and there you will find the option to set IRE to 0 or 7.5

When I tried this, I could not see the BTB bar in DVE, while I could with IRE set to 7.5.

Folks!

Using a digital output, the IRE option should not be affecting the output, but unfortunately for mystifying design reasons it is! Use the option that clips the least data. FYI I believe Hugh had a thread about the 2910 (or was it the 3910) that found that the 7.5 IRE setting leaves the digital outputs unmessed with. Use this setting if this is indeed the case.

Test using Avia Pro or DVE. Avia is limited to 16-235.

Downloaded firmware instructions

I received the firmware disc via mail and installed it successfully. It included instructions which do not include step #4 ("Initialization") that is contained in the .pdf file that is in the downloaded .zip file.

Is this step necessary for the upgrade? If not, when is "Initialization" used?

bruce73...the instructions included with my firmware disc didn't have the initialize steps either. i upgraded about a week ago and haven't had any issues. i am curious why some instructions include it and others don't. it seems like it may simply reset factory defaults.

Originally posted by thearthurclone
...it seems like it may simply reset factory defaults.

That's my take on it, too, but I e-mailed Denon about it just to confirm.

Originally posted by djbluemax1
IRE setting is under the picture control. Bottom row of buttons on remote, second from left. The menu will have a default followed by M1 - M5 if I remember, and then Set. Go into the last option and there you will find the option to set IRE to 0 or 7.5

Yeah that is correct, go into the last option which is "Set" (very intuitive, right!!--who designs this stuff?? NASA?? LOL).

Seriously let us know how 0 vs 7.5 tests out assuming you are using HDMI to a Sammy!!

I've cross-posted this with another thread. Apologies in advance.

I bought a Denon 2910 about a month ago. I've been very happy with the picture quality this player produces - unlike some people, I have yet to experience macroblocking issues and I haven't noticed excessive green push, if any at all. My only problem is that it stutters on some DVD-Rs. I took the disks in question to a store nearby and they all played fine on all models I tested - 2900, 3910, 1910, and other brands; which leads me to believe it is a quality control problem with my particular unit.

I should also mention that I haven't been completely happy with the sound. I think redbook CDs don't sound that great; but it could just be my setup.

I have my player connected via DVI to a Samsung HLP 4674 and via 5.1 analog interconnects, stereo interconnects, and optical to a Rotel RSX 1056.

Right now I have the following options:

(1) Have the 2910 exchanged for another 2910 and see if that resolves the stuttering issues.
(2) Exchange it for a 2900. I wouldn't have to pay anything extra.
(3) Exchange it for a 3910 and pay an additional $500.
(4) Get a Pioneer 59AVI

Option (1) seems to be the surest route as I already know what to expect from this player. However, I would want to use my player for music too and I'm not 100% satisfied right now. I care more about music than video; but the wife does care more about video quality.

Option (2) would be great for the audio part as the 2900 does produce great sound; but I'm unsure about the video. I don't care too much about the upconversion as my TV should handle that with some ease; but I do care about losing the DVI connection. What would people say is the difference in PQ between the 2900 connected via component and the 2910 connected via DVI?

Option (3) would take care of both audio and video; but really, that's a lot of money for a player some people are still complaining about.

I've discounted Option (4) because apparently the Pioneer isn't as good an audio player as the 3910; and as I said before, I care more about audio fidelity.

I would greatly appreciate any input from the knowledgeable people here.

Anyone know how to find out the number of hours on the laser? I've searched, but didn't find it.

This did fix most of the green push, skin tones are back to normal, but its still there on my dvi output. I do recommend it. You might not see a huge difference from the -3 or -4 depending on your display and what material you watch.

I watch alot of very dark sci fi material so I guess its material that really shows up the macroblocking and green push. I have to say the macroblocking is not that bad, I see it, but if I forget about it, doesn't show up usually until certain scenes.

Being that most sci fi flicks involve alot of shots in space and special effects its apparently great test material.

My 2910S arrived a week ago with version -4 fw. Loaded new fw before I even used it. I have not seen any MB or green push on the DVI output(and I've been looking for it, thanks to this thread :rolleyes: ).

Is the 2910 located in any B&M stores in Northern NJ, I have this unit on order from Crutchfield, which they don't have in stock.

This afternoon, the estimated receive date was 12/30/04, I just checked the website, and now the estimated date of arrival is 1/14/05.

I can't wait that long, I tried 6th ave electronics, but for some reason they don't have the 2910 according to there website.


Any place else I can look?

TIA

The Denon web site lists their dealers. There's plenty of places in NJ, but I don't know which ones are in the northern part. I bought mine from a B&M in Arlington, MA.

Click here (http://www.usa.denon.com/dealers/dealers.asp?l=1)

Client1 - did you upgrade firmware via DVI (or HDMI) or did you use the Denon "recommended" composite or s-video (or did you just upgrade without any connection at all?). Thanks

Bruce 73 - where does one find the pdf or zip file for the firmware?

BenF12400:

You can download the firmware and burn it to disc yourself (.pdf instructions included) here (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/regtest.asp) .

BTW, I did use an s-video connection. I don't know why that or composite is suggested; perhaps because one of the fixes involves the HDMI/DVI's output being able to show DVD-A menus, so those outputs shouldn't be used during the upgrade. But, that's only a guess. In actuality, you don't really have to have your display on at all; it just provides more complete monitoring of the process than the display on the front of the 2910.

Also, Denon confirmed through e-mail that step #4 of the instructions ("Initialize the Player") isn't necessary if you confirm the version number of the firmware after upgrading.

Originally posted by bruce73

You can download the firmware and burn it to disc yourself (.pdf instructions included) here (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/regtest.asp) .


Bruce,
That link doesn't appear to work (404 error). I found another URL on the main page of the Denon site: http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp.

I haven't tried it yet since I'm at work and don't have my serial # (required). But thanks for the heads-up.

-Corey

Originally posted by coreymd
That link doesn't appear to work (404 error)...

Hmmm, sorry about that. It works on my home computer (maybe a cookie is involved or something). Your link works and that's the right page.

Just to let you know, had the 2910 on order at Crutchfield, not due in stock until 1/14/05.

I Found the unit in stock at http://www.**************.com
there is also a coupon code that you can use, DISCOVER3OFF
it will take 3% off your total order. They also have until 12/22/04, half off on next day shipping. So ordered the unit, used the coupon, and the 1/2 off, will have the 2910 tomorrow for a lesser price then Crutchfield was selling it for.

Thanks.

OOPS,

I guess I'm not allowed to tell you the web site??

Bruce73- thanks for the response - amazingly enough, I have component video cables, I have HDMI-HDMI, DVI-HDMI, but no composite! I'll have to pick some up - I'm reluctant to mess with the instructions (I may have an S-Video around). FYI - none of my cables are monsters.

Since you don't need to switch on display devices (like TV), I don't think any of these video connections are necessary for firmware upgrade. The on-screen display of 2910 gives status of firmware installation, etc. anyway.

I agree with jigesh!

Originally posted by BenF12400
Bruce73- thanks for the response - amazingly enough, I have component video cables, I have HDMI-HDMI, DVI-HDMI, but no composite! I'll have to pick some up - I'm reluctant to mess with the instructions (I may have an S-Video around). FYI - none of my cables are monsters.

Yes, I felt the same about following instructions when it pertains to a $650 unit! Call me paranoid, but...:D

jigesh and mismatched are quite right, though, you don't really need to have the display turned on for the upgrade to proceed. Here's what you would be missing: once you pop in the CD, it starts automatically; on the panel of the 2910 you will see "writing", however, on the display you will see "write" and "erase" several times as the upgrade takes place. That's it. Then the disc pops out and you power down the machine with the tray still out. Now, whether the display would indicate something else if there were some trouble with the upgrade process, I don't know, but that's all that happened with me.

Do you guys think the rush to buy a 2910 will stop now, when Benchmark said it only had a 86 rating, while everybody expect it will be close to what 3910 got ???

Any one else notice this.

Tonite I was watching Manchurian Canidate (sp)....Any ways there is a part of the movie where the 2 main Actors (Denzel and I believe the other was Jeff) was in a class room (This was about more than half way or so into the movie) and All of a sudden, in the middle of the screen a little green box popped up with a red dot in it.

I thought it was strange so I rewond that part and watch it again and the little green box with the red insert was not there. I am almost positive it was a some kinda hickup in the 2910. I asked my wife if she saw the little green box and she said yep and she decribed exactly what I saw and where I saw it too.

What the hell is that about? Did anyone else ever see this with thier 2910? By the way I have the -5 firmware update.

Thx,
Claude

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
Any one else notice this.

Tonite I was watching Manchurian Canidate (sp)....Any ways there is a part of the movie where the 2 main Actors (Denzel and I believe the other was Jeff) was in a class room (This was about more than half way or so into the movie) and All of a sudden, in the middle of the screen a little green box popped up with a red dot in it.

I thought it was strange so I rewond that part and watch it again and the little green box with the red insert was not there. I am almost positive it was a some kinda hickup in the 2910. I asked my wife if she saw the little green box and she said yep and she decribed exactly what I saw and where I saw it too.

What the hell is that about? Did anyone else ever see this with thier 2910? By the way I have the -5 firmware update.

Thx,
Claude

maybe it was a Xmas gift ( I mean holiday gift)!! Heck, I have never seen anything like that. I bet it was the DVD...

Client1 - did you upgrade firmware via DVI (or HDMI) or did you use the Denon "recommended" composite or s-video (or did you just upgrade without any connection at all?). Thanks

I first hooked it up to my bedroom tv with Svideo and ran the fw disc. In hindsight I think you could probably load it up without any connections like someone mentioned earlier. Although if it's not a PITA, I'd just follow the instructions to be safe.

Does anyone know what is the latest multiregion version of the 2910 firmware available? Mine is:

Version: ESS 6720-2
Make Day: 725f

Maybe there is a newer version around.

I downloaded version ESS 6720-5 from Denon website, but only works for region 1 discs.

Thanks,

Octavio

I notice that in Kris Deering's 'Secrets' report that he used 'Auto 2' on the 2910. Is there any difference in using Auto 1 or Auto 2?

how do you get to Auto 1 vs 2 settings in the menu. novice here!!

m

PS Now I know why we Denon owners need these threads. The Denon owners "manuals" are just awful!!

Originally posted by Octavio
Does anyone know what is the latest multiregion version of the 2910 firmware available? Mine is:

Version: ESS 6720-2
Make Day: 725f

Maybe there is a newer version around.

I downloaded version ESS 6720-5 from Denon website, but only works for region 1 discs.

Thanks,

Octavio

The latest region free firmware would have to be obtained most likely from one of our Aussie members, as by law players there need to be region free.

I have seen a few post , some in this thread I think from down under.