Hi everyone,

I started this thread since all the other DVD-2910 threads were mostly about comparisons to the 1910 or 3910. I wanted to have a place for 2910 owners to go to discuss any questions they have about this set, whether it be settings, calibration, functions, or anything else.

I recently upgraded from a Denon DVD-910 to a 2910, as I was having issues with the 910 and my Sony KD-34XBR960 set. Basically, anything watched over 480p component (whether 4:3 or 16:9) would severely jitter and bend on the Sony. Moving to 480i instantly cleared up the problem. I watched a few DVDs the other night on the 2910 in 480p and did not notice any jitter or bending. So, all looks good now. Whether the jitter was a function of the 910 or of its Faroudja 2301 chip, I do not know.

Right now, I've noticed the following with the 2910. Since I had to turn in the 910 for a credit toward the 2910, I am not able to do a direct comparison of the two. What I have noticed, though, is that the colors seem a bit deeper and edges seem a bit crisper. One thing I've noticed with both the 910 and the 2910 on my set is some "graininess" with scenes of dark colors or shots of the sky. This is not the macroblocking others have mentioned with other Denon sets, as I know what macroblocking looks like. Whether this is due to the Denon players or the 960, I am not sure. I have not calibrated them yet with either a DVD calibration disc or an ISF calibration. I am getting the 960 exchanged, though, as it has developed a small black dead spot in the middle of the screen. Once I have the new 960 for a few weeks, I will go in and calbirate both on my own to see what results I get, then probably go for an ISF calibration down the road.

Comments are welcome. I'm hoping to get this thread off to a good start!

Is there a way to quickly enable the squeeze mode, say for instance when viewing 4x3 material extras on a DVD? Rather than going through the menu steps? (when connected via DVI)

How does one know which to pick on HDMI/DVI Black Level settings..enhanced or normal? (For the record, I've got a Samsung DLP)

Thanks,
Chris

Originally posted by txemsdoc
Is there a way to quickly enable the squeeze mode, say for instance when viewing 4x3 material extras on a DVD? Rather than going through the menu steps? (when connected via DVI)

How does one know which to pick on HDMI/DVI Black Level settings..enhanced or normal? (For the record, I've got a Samsung DLP)

Thanks,
Chris
1st answer is no, u have to go thru the menu.

2nd answer is personal pref. I pref normal on my Sammy DLP.

Partial answer to 1. Dont have to do squeeze in DVD since the Sammy DLP's have the ability to do 4:3 via its setting (one bitton to toggle all supported aspect ratio's available for that source) and it works better. The Sammy dont lock the set, its still have the ability to show diff aspect ratio's. The only probm is when u have a widescreen pic that is not native 16:9. The pic will be letterbox'd in a 4:3 window on the Sammy. This will also happen if done by the DVD in squeeze mode.

tennberg,
I just got my 2910 yesterday and ran it through its paces. I haven't yet calibrated it with my DVE disc, but I can already see and hear the improvements over my Samsung HD-931.

First off, my connections are:

* Component video using the default mode upconverted to 720p (haven't tried DVI yet since my set's solitary input is already being used)
* 5.1ch analog audio with digital output turned off

My first impression is that the audio this player produces is light years beyond anything I've experienced with my HT before. I've got a mid-level Yamaha receiver that I thought was fantastic before using the Denon's DACs. I can't believe there is so much of a difference between the two. The soundstage is more precisely defined and I don't get listening fatigue at even above reference dB levels. I actually feel like I was missing the true theater experience without this player - and underutilizing my Klipsch speakers. I know why those "audiophiles" spend so much on pre/pros and amps now. :)

To answer one of your questions, I did notice a little graininess in some of he dark scenes in "Eternal Sunshine", but nothing that I thought was out of the ordinary (i.e. something other than natural film grain). What bothered me was the color banding in that DVD. There were many dark scenes that were only lit by a spotlight, producing a stair-step of color instead of a smooth gradient. I haven't compared this to my old player, so it may well be an authoring problem or a DVD technical limitation, but I've never seen this on any other DVD. Overall (without calibration), I didn't see a large difference in video performance between the Denon and Samsung except that there was definitely more shadow detail.

Also tried a couple of SACDs and a DVD-A which didn't overwhelm me, but I did hear the appreciable step up in quality. This is not a feature I see my family using much, but it is nice to have on those occassions.

I just wish I had time to tweak it and play some more titles, but I'll be out of town until Monday... bad timing to get a new toy :mad:

BTW- does anyone know of generic Denon discrete codes that might work on the 2910 (or any specific ones)? I'm thinking about auto/film/video modes and pure direct memory modes in particular.

Kris Deering! is there any plan to shoot out 2910 and yamaha S2500 in near future?

Originally posted by Tinker
1st answer is no, u have to go thru the menu.

2nd answer is personal pref. I pref normal on my Sammy DLP.

Partial answer to 1. Dont have to do squeeze in DVD since the Sammy DLP's have the ability to do 4:3 via its setting (one bitton to toggle all supported aspect ratio's available for that source) and it works better. The Sammy dont lock the set, its still have the ability to show diff aspect ratio's. The only probm is when u have a widescreen pic that is not native 16:9. The pic will be letterbox'd in a 4:3 window on the Sammy. This will also happen if done by the DVD in squeeze mode.


Correction on #2 question....

Enhanced is for displays expecting a PC level of black, I think it is 0-255

Normal is for displays that expect "video" level of black, I think it is 16-235

You need to do a search and see what the Sammy is looking for.

Originally posted by coreymd
tennberg,
I just got my 2910 yesterday and ran it through its paces. I haven't yet calibrated it with my DVE disc, but I can already see and hear the improvements over my Samsung HD-931.

First off, my connections are:

* Component video using the default mode upconverted to 720p (haven't tried DVI yet since my set's solitary input is already being used)
* 5.1ch analog audio with digital output turned off


coreymd: I thought the 2910 could only upconvert over DVI or HDMI. If you are upconverting over component, how did you set that?

I am going to try a few more DVDs tonight to see how the player performs. I'd love to calibrate it using DVE, but my Sony 960 is being swapped out early next week and I don't want to calibrate anything I'll only have for a few more days. Even then, once I get the new 960, I'll have to let it "burn-in" for about 100 hours or so before doing anything.

Has anyone noticed picture jitter with either the HDMI or DVI @ 1080i (about 1 or 2 pixels, up and down)?

Paul

Originally posted by zoro
Kris Deering! is there any plan to shoot out 2910 and yamaha S2500 in near future?

Kris stated on another board that the 2910 will be in the Dec edition of the benchmarks. I don't know if the Yamaha will also be in that edition.

One other thing I like about the 2910: its size and presence.

I used to have a Denon 910 and that thing felt like it would blow away in the slightest breeze. It was also about 6.5" deep, making it seem like you literally were missing half a player.

When I went to pick up the 2910 (I didn't get the original box since they needed that for the 910 return - I threw out that box many months ago), I noticed its weight and size carrying it to my car. It is about 4+" deeper than the 910, giving it much more presence. It is also about an inch taller.

I have not tested any of the audio functions of the 2910 as I output audio directly to my Rotel pre-amp/processor via a coaxial digital cable, so I cannot comment on those. I am just happy the jitter I had with my 910 is gone.

Originally posted by longshanksdvd
Correction on #2 question....

Enhanced is for displays expecting a PC level of black, I think it is 0-255

Normal is for displays that expect "video" level of black, I think it is 16-235

You need to do a search and see what the Sammy is looking for.

Sammy can do both depending on source. On the newer sammy DLP (HLP series) there are inputs for DVI, HDMI and VGA.

If ur using DVI or HDMI then Standard, if ur using VGA then Enhance was what I was told.

Originally posted by coreymd
tennberg,

My first impression is that the audio this player produces is light years beyond anything I've experienced with my HT before. I've got a mid-level Yamaha receiver that I thought was fantastic before using the Denon's DACs. I can't believe there is so much of a difference between the two. The soundstage is more precisely defined and I don't get listening fatigue at even above reference dB levels. I actually feel like I was missing the true theater experience without this player - and underutilizing my Klipsch speakers. I know why those "audiophiles" spend so much on pre/pros and amps now.

I'm not clear on "the two" you're referring to. Are you talking about the difference between your Yamaha receiver and the 2910? Don't you output the 2910 audio to your receiver? Or are you describing another receiver?

I'm also a new 2910 owner, feeding into a Sony KV32HS510 4:3 HDTV-ready set, via DVI. Any preferences on IRE settings vs picture quality? Although I can adjust the brightness on my Sony to compensate for either IRE level output from the 2910's picture settings, it just seems that 0 IRE provide a bit more punch/detail/whatever. Also, I think that 1080i output gives better detail than the 780p option. It hasn't been long but so far I'm lovin' the 2910 (although I'm still keeping my 1600 in reserve)!

Hi

Thanks for the responses to my first post.. Not sure which black level samsung expects, but I'll look for that... AFTER...

AFTER I get this new problem resolved..
All of a sudden, with no change in connections, but I did look through various menus although I don't think I changed anything...

While playing Kill Bill 2, it started stuttering with audio and video. Then it quit playing. I took the disk out thinking it was dirty, and wiped it off. Put it back in, and then it displayed loading for several minutes. I turned it off and on and took the disk out and put another in. Now it is playing that disk with audio intact, but the video flashes off and on in 1-2 second cycles that are constant. Audio keeps on playing normally. It's as if the player is cycling through two different video outputs.
I've ensure it is on DVI, 720P to my samsung. Any ideas?
Chris

Try a power cycle. Unplug it (not just turned off) for a few minutes and try it again. Hasn't been necessary on my 2900, but my TV appreciates every once in a awhile.

thanks,

Unplugging it worked. I'll go to bed now before I cause another problem :)

I have a 2910 on order. Can someone advise the difference using digital audio outputs versus the 5.1 outputs. I can do both with my Onkyo sr701 receiver.

Thanks

Originally posted by Tinker
1st answer is no, u have to go thru the menu.

2nd answer is personal pref. I pref normal on my Sammy DLP.

Partial answer to 1. Dont have to do squeeze in DVD since the Sammy DLP's have the ability to do 4:3 via its setting (one bitton to toggle all supported aspect ratio's available for that source) and it works better. The Sammy dont lock the set, its still have the ability to show diff aspect ratio's. The only probm is when u have a widescreen pic that is not native 16:9. The pic will be letterbox'd in a 4:3 window on the Sammy. This will also happen if done by the DVD in squeeze mode.

I don't know about the Samsung part.. when I toggle the aspects on the TV remote it only gives me WIDE (TV) and WIDE (PC). WIDE (TV) is what I use, and wide pc only shrinks it a few cm on each side, certainly not to a 4x3 picture. I still have to go in through the DVD menu to do the squeeze. Perhaps it is because I have an older samsung, HLM507. I hope someday there will be a discrete code to go to squeeze.

On a more disturbing issue, I am having recurrent problems with the 2910 having what appears to be disk skipping. It's happened on 4 discs now. AFter some time frame of sometimes up to an hour, it stutters, sound stops and restarts, then I eventually lose video and have snippets of sound playing. If I turn the DVD player off and on, it still does it. If I unplug it, it works again for a while.

Is this a defective player? Should I just return it or call Denon? My old Panasonic was more reliable than this...

Chris

Can anybody confirm that 2910 is not affected by chroma bug?

I'd like to buy and use it with my Marantz vp12s2 via DVI (720p).

Thanks

Cris

Denon says it's not affected. DVD-3910 doesn't have it and has the same MPEG decoder (ESS Vibrato) as in DVD-2910. So DVD-2910 shouldn't have the chroma upsampling error.

I too am looking into getting the 2910, but I have a dilemma to solve. I have a new Mits 62725 with 1 HDMI input. I run my Tivo HD 250 through this input. I want the 2910 especially for its HDMI output and of course its other assets too. Are there any HDMI switchers out there, preferably remote controlled, that don't cost an arm and a leg. Has anyone here dealt with this problem?

Radtek,

Does the mits have a DVI input? You could use HDMI for your DVD and DVI for the STB (or vise versa).

My answer does lead me to the question: Is there a difference in QUALITY between the DVI and HDMI. I'm using a DVI to HDMI monster cable from my HD-STB. Is this a bad thing?

There is no difference in picture quality using the DVI or HDMI. HDMI includes audio just by using the one cable though. Correct me if I am wrong.....

Cheers,

I currently use the 2910 hooked up to my Sony KX-34XBR960 via componenvt video. The Sony has an HDMI input. Would I noticed any improvement in picture quality using HDMI from the 2910? Is the video DAC in the 2910 or the Sony TV better? If it's the 2910, then component would give the best picture. If the Sony, then HDMI would be better.

Anyone have firsthand experience with this on a direct-view CRT set?

Originally posted by tennberg
I currently use the 2910 hooked up to my Sony KX-34XBR960 via componenvt video. The Sony has an HDMI input. Would I noticed any improvement in picture quality using HDMI from the 2910? Is the video DAC in the 2910 or the Sony TV better? If it's the 2910, then component would give the best picture. If the Sony, then HDMI would be better.


Why don't you simply try the various hookups yourself and make your own determination? If I tell you that one looks better than another, who are you going to believe? Me or "your lying eyes"?

If both of your units have HDMI, it is a MUST to use them. It has much more detail, cleaner picture n less calibration needed. Once you have a taste of the new Digital video transfer, there is no turning back. Believe me, even though I am using DVI/DVI.


Originally posted by tennberg
I currently use the 2910 hooked up to my Sony KX-34XBR960 via componenvt video. The Sony has an HDMI input. Would I noticed any improvement in picture quality using HDMI from the 2910? Is the video DAC in the 2910 or the Sony TV better? If it's the 2910, then component would give the best picture. If the Sony, then HDMI would be better.

Anyone have firsthand experience with this on a direct-view CRT set?

Originally posted by Craig Clemens
Radtek,

Does the mits have a DVI input? You could use HDMI for your DVD and DVI for the STB (or vise versa).

My answer does lead me to the question: Is there a difference in QUALITY between the DVI and HDMI. I'm using a DVI to HDMI monster cable from by HD-STB. Is this a bad thing?

Craig, unfortunately no, just the one HDMI input and was why I was leaning toward the Samsung DLP as it had both DVI and HDMI. The only difference between HDMI and DVI is HMDI carries sound also. I believe PQ is the same. I want a direct digital connection on as many of my components that support them. I run all sound through my NAD receiver.

The HD-250 uses my available HDMI input so need a switcher of some sort to use the 2910 HDMI output. I would get one now if this switcher thing will pan out.

Just picked up the 2910 from Magnolia Hi-Fi inside a BB store. Awesome setup it was. They were having a new opening sale this weekend and I got the player just above $100 less than the msrp. I know where I am shopping in the future.

Cheers,

Originally posted by dlm10541
I have a 2910 on order. Can someone advise the difference using digital audio outputs versus the 5.1 outputs. I can do both with my Onkyo sr701 receiver.

Thanks

Yeah, I have the same setup as you... Was wondering if I should just run the Optical or the 5.1 outputs.

You need the optical for DVDs/CDs AND the analogs for multi-channel music (dvd-a/SACD).

i have a vinc bravo d1.
have any of you 2910 owners had the d1? is the 2910 a worthwhile upgrade?

I just picked up a 2910 and really like it so far but I can't figure out how to get a video signal when playing DVD-A discs. I have it hooked up with DVI to my RPTV. Pressing Play twice will start the disc but I'd like to be able to get to the menus and special features of some of the discs. Anybody else have this issue or a fix?

Originally posted by radtek
I too am looking into getting the 2910, but I have a dilemma to solve. I have a new Mits 62725 with 1 HDMI input. I run my Tivo HD 250 through this input. Are there any HDMI switchers out there...

Radtek, I have almost the same setup (2910, Mits 52525 and Tivo HD). www.gefen.com has a new HDMI switcher ($249) with remote and cables. I'm also thinking of just manually switching the HDMI cable as I only watch DVDs once or twice a week. What I haven't figured out yet is how to get NetCommand to deal with a switcher or with manually switching. Let me know how you resolve this. Thanks.

We have had a 2910 on order for at least 2 weeks now. Goodguys has them in black, but our silver one we ordered has not yet come in. Has anyone gotten the silver one yet? and where did you get it? I need to know so I can get on GG case for taking so long. We have a silver Denon AVR 3805 to hook it up to. One GG said they have silver ones in their wherehouse. Can anyone confirm this?

sbtv,
We also have a 52725 & direct TV HD, Do you think this swithcer can degrade the picture quality a little? It also comes with HDMI cables, are the cables any good or are they cheapo cables?

Originally posted by radtek
I too am looking into getting the 2910, but I have a dilemma to solve. I have a new Mits 62725 with 1 HDMI input. I run my Tivo HD 250 through this input. I want the 2910 especially for its HDMI output and of course its other assets too. Are there any HDMI switchers out there, preferably remote controlled, that don't cost an arm and a leg. Has anyone here dealt with this problem?

* Picture quality between HDMI and DVI = none
* If using HDMI to HDMI you can run longer cable runs.
* If using HDMI->DVI to DVI the DVI determines the cable length and is hence not longer than DVI-DVI. DVI-DVI would actually be better since you have one less interference (the HDMI-DVI adapter) that worsens the signal path.
* Belkin SOHO is a quite cheap computer DVI sitch (about 150 dollars) but i guess it should work also for home cinema since it has autosearch. Allthough you cant remote control it a button push shoud do it (or keyboard if you connect that). You also need a set of cables for each source - se bottom of link page.
Link Belkin SOHO - DVI SWITCH (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=183628)

Regards
Boogieman

Due to frequent stuttering, I exchanged for a new 2910.
It repeated the same stuttering problems after an hour or so.
Could this be from overheating?
I have it in a rack, enclosed on all but the back, with about half inch on each side and with a tivo on top of it. The top vents, on the units one side, are not blocked by the Tivo.
Anyways, I've taken it out of the cabinet and watched about 2 hours without a stutter yet.

Also, if it a disk problem, is there a disk cleaner anyone would recommend?

Chris

Originally posted by darryl b
i have a vinc bravo d1.
have any of you 2910 owners had the d1? is the 2910 a worthwhile upgrade?

I had a D1. It was too unreliable for me. Great PQ, but I had loader issues and remote control sluggishness. Based on those two issues- I had to let it go. It just wasn't reliable. If it was, I'd have kept it.

I tried the Momitsu v880 and felt the PQ was soft. Tried the 1910, same thing, soft PQ.

The 2910 is a well-made unit with good PQ. I have no plans to upgrade from here until HD DVD. It's a nice unit and it works as expected.

One nice thing about the D1 is the autohanding of 4:3 content with no settings changes.

So, is it a worthwhile upgrade? If you have zero problems with D1, keep it. If it's unreliable, I'd upgrade anyway, whether to 2910 or some other unit. There are too many choices out there to stick with poorly workign equipment. I wanted to support Vinc - the little guy - but couldn't stomache the problems in their products.

Originally posted by wildpanda86
sbtv,
We also have a 52725 & direct TV HD, Do you think this swithcer can degrade the picture quality a little? It also comes with HDMI cables, are the cables any good or are they cheapo cables?
I asked a similar question in regard to the cables included with the HD-Tivo - here... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4223240&highlight=sbtv#post4223240. Page down to my (sbtv) post and greywolf's reply. The concensus from this reply and others was that the cables included with the HDTivo were fine - I would think they would be on the switcher too. As for degrading the signal, maybe slightly but I wouldn't think you'd be able to tell the difference.

Picked up the 2910 this afternoon and spent a while setting everything up. Still got to do some tweaking with the video and have the DVI input ISF'ed on my Sammy DLP, but the Capital Building scene in X-Men1.5 rivaled HD :D
I didn't spend a lot of time with video as it has already been stated that video quality is excellent.

I have a Panny RP82 and the video the 2910 puts out is superb. Not a night and day difference but a definite improvement.

I mostly wanted to hear DVD-A and SACD. Audio via the 5.1 analog outs is outstanding. No comparison to the Panny (DVD-A only). Voices, soundstage and overall quality was superior. I have a Denon 3805 A/V receiver used as a preamp. The accompanying female vocalist in "Carnival" by Natalie Merchant was clear and clean. On the Panny it was not very discernable.

DSOTM (SACD) and the Eagles' Hotel California (DVD-A) were just incredible. This player certainly does magic with audio. I was able to crank the volume up to between 85 - 105dB on the Radio Shack SPL meter and just wanted to hear more.

I didn't have a lot of time to do a complete review but so far I am not unhappy with any aspect of this player.

GeoBy, I too cannot get video from DVD-A's but I could from the Panny. Does DVI not pass video? :confused:

Guys-
For those who aren't getting video on DVD-A discs - the 2910 defaults to audio only. There is a setup option to change this behavior to do video on DVD-A as well. Check out page 41 of the manual (bottom of page).

Tennberg-
You know, the 2910 allowed me to change the output resolution to 720p while using component, but I never verified what the actual signal resolution was (I didn't realize the manual says this is only for HDMI/DVI). The Sammy DLP re-sync's on the component input when I cycle thru the format options though, so I figured it was doing something. I'll have to test that out more thoroughly...

Kaysadea-
I'm using the analog 6CH input on my Yamaha receiver now (which uses the 2910's DACs), as opposed to the digital optical input (which uses the Yamaha's DACs and DSP modes). Those were the two configurations I was referring to.

BTW- I've got the Pure Direct mode configured to disable the optical output from the 2910 *always*. So I'm using the 5.1 analog audio ouputs for both DVD movies (DD5.1/DTS soundtracks) and SACD/DVD-A and letting the 2910 do all the audio processing instead of my reciever.

-Corey

Did anyone get them in silver yet?

Yes, I do but it looks more like Titanium to me than silver, which is a bit cyber-looking n not the ordinary bright silver..

In regards to the Gamma adjustment, I cannot seem to get it to work via DVI to my Benq 8700 projector. I can adjust wild configurations with no change to the image. Anyone else have this problem or do I have a bad unit?

Jeff

Jeff, Gamma is not adjustable via DVI; only on component. There is an explanation on page 48. Sharpness (mid-hi), chroma delay and gamma.

Corey, thanks for the info on getting video on screen with DVD-A.

I picked up my 2910 on Sat and have it running via DVI to my InFocus SP7205 FP. I originally had it set to 720 to match the native res of my projector. However after watching a few DVD's and not being overly ecstatic about the picture quality I switched to 1080 which seems to yield better PQ. This seems odd to me since at 720 it is matching my PJ's native res and should yield the best PQ at that setting...go figure. At 720 I was getting a lot of macro-blocking in very dim scenes, most of which seemed to disappear at 1080. I also have noticed a bit of green push. I still need to tweak out the player some more and see what that yields. If anyone has any suggestions...LMK.

Does anyone have a simple explanation of how to use the 0 / 7.5 IRE setting? I calibrated my set at 0 IRE using the pluge pattern on DVE. Seemed overly dark afterward, so I ended up increasing the brightness by a few notches.

Re: 720p over component: my Samsung DLP (720p native) doesn't display resolution info on the component inputs, so I'm not sure what I'm getting from the 2910 when changing the resolution using the HDMI/DVI format button - I assume now that since the manual doesn't mention component that it's always 480p. Seems strange that there would be upconvert only over DVI since my 931 had the Faroudja chip and upconverted over component as well as DVI (at least that's what they claimed).

-Corey

Originally posted by jazzcat
Picked up the 2910 this afternoon and spent a while setting everything up. Still got to do some tweaking with the video and have the DVI input ISF'ed on my Sammy DLP, but the Capital Building scene in X-Men1.5 rivaled HD :D
I didn't spend a lot of time with video as it has already been stated that video quality is excellent.

I have a Panny RP82 and the video the 2910 puts out is superb. Not a night and day difference but a definite improvement.

I mostly wanted to hear DVD-A and SACD. Audio via the 5.1 analog outs is outstanding. No comparison to the Panny (DVD-A only). Voices, soundstage and overall quality was superior. I have a Denon 3805 A/V receiver used as a preamp. The accompanying female vocalist in "Carnival" by Natalie Merchant was clear and clean. On the Panny it was not very discernable.

DSOTM (SACD) and the Eagles' Hotel California (DVD-A) were just incredible. This player certainly does magic with audio. I was able to crank the volume up to between 85 - 105dB on the Radio Shack SPL meter and just wanted to hear more.

I didn't have a lot of time to do a complete review but so far I am not unhappy with any aspect of this player.

GeoBy, I too cannot get video from DVD-A's but I could from the Panny. Does DVI not pass video? :confused:

Would going from the RP-82 to the 2910 be worth it from a video standpoint alone ? I have an RP-82 and I am having a hard time finding a good replacement for it without spending an arm and a leg.

i am not complaining here, but the 2910 that i purchased from magnolia plays all regional dvd's from other countries. does anyone else have this luxury?

cheers,

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
Would going from the RP-82 to the 2910 be worth it from a video standpoint alone ? I have an RP-82 and I am having a hard time finding a good replacement for it without spending an arm and a leg.

I actually went to the 2910 for DVD-A/SACD capabilities. And I wanted the video to be at least as good as the RP82. I don't know that I would spend $600 for just video. The picture is improved but as I said before - not a knock your socks off difference. I had the component input for the Panny ISF'ed and it made it look beautiful. I will see what the 2910 looks like after the DVI gets ISF'ed. It is entirely watchable now though! :D

Well,

My second 2910 (on top of my rack, completely unenclosed) suffers from the same stuttering problem at 30-60 minutes of playback. I thought it was heat related due to being in my rack, but it seems not to be the case (or if it is, I'm not willing to take the top of the unit to help it cool better). If I play a disk, the video stutters but doesn't freeze as does the audio optical output since my preamp loses the signal. If I turn off the machine, let it sit 20 minutes, and restart the DVD in the same area where it was stuttering before, it plays fine...until some time later in a different part of the DVD.

Therefore, I don't think it's my DVD's. I think it is something inherent in the player and a defect. Why would I get 2 of them which suffer the same problem? The serial # on unit 1 was 4076600713 and the second one is 407660112_ something (I forget exactly). July 2004 dates on the sticker.

I called Denon technical support/service and they report they have had no reports of any issues on the 2910. They wanted a list of the DVD's I've had problems on and said they are going to try them out themselves and call me back.

Any chance it could be related to DVI out? Should I try component out?
Why woudl I be the only one so lucky to get 2 units with this problem?

Chris

txemsdoc

Sorry to hear about ur probms with lock ups.
My 2910 is in a very close self. It has about 1/4 in on each side and about 2 in clearance on top and open back. Actually its in a shelf in the Ikea stand I bought for my HLP6163 sammy. I ran DVD's all weekend (12+ hrs on Sunday) and had no probm's with heat. It got warm but not hot to touch. So I dont think heat is an issue. I have the 2910 connected both via DVI and HDMI and had no probm. I constantly switch between the 2 to see if I can see any diff and I havent yet. Just maybe bad luck on the 2 that u got. Have u tried it at the dealers to see if its not another part of ur system that might be causing the probm with lock ups. Sounds far fetch but weirder things have happen to me when it comes to this stuff.

With some of the issues that others seem to have with the 2910, I've decided to keep the black 2910 I currently have instead of getting the silver one (on order that I cancelled) since I dont have any probm's with the current unit I have now and dont want to take a risk on a new one. I was prob one of the first here to get a 2910 and I had no probm's with mine at all for performance wise other then a very minor issue (very very minor green tint and not evn sure if its the 2910 or the DVD that cause the tint thru digital connections). Its been the best DVD player I had so far and will be a keeper until HiDef DVD.

Should I try component out?

I guess if you have time, better give it a try. No clue about your problem, Chris.

Thanks for the kind words :)

All that is hooked up to the DVD is my Samsung DLP via DVI and the Outlaw 950 preamp via optical cable. I guess I could change the optical cable to digital and see if that affects it, or to disconnect sound entirely.
Also, I could go to S-Video or Component to try it as well.
I'm not too knowledgeable in this area, but since the problem is affecting both audio and video it would seem to be a player problem... could a DIV issue affect audio or vice versa?

Maybe I'll just return it and convince tweeter to give me a great deal on a 3910 for all my problems...

Chris

Originally posted by txemsdoc
Thanks for the kind words :)

All that is hooked up to the DVD is my Samsung DLP via DVI and the Outlaw 950 preamp via optical cable. I guess I could change the optical cable to digital and see if that affects it, or to disconnect sound entirely.
Also, I could go to S-Video or Component to try it as well.
I'm not too knowledgeable in this area, but since the problem is affecting both audio and video it would seem to be a player problem... could a DIV issue affect audio or vice versa?

Maybe I'll just return it and convince tweeter to give me a great deal on a 3910 for all my problems...

Chris

Just for an expierment like u said, just connect the 2910 to the DLP via the DVI , with nothing else connected and see what happens. Sometimes if there is a lost of signal for the digital (coax or optical) audio out that the pre/pro gets can cause a lockup. Sound weird but I seen it happen before. Just a try. For 2 units to lockup like that, it has be some other reason and not the players themselves that are the causes. but then who knows????? Hope it works out.

try another DVI cable?

EDIT:
Another one is to check if the optical cable is pushed all the way in (click) else it maybe loose. I had this probm with mine a while back. I just plugged the optical in and was getting audio drop issue with by new AVR. Couildnt figure out what was wrong. I would walk across the floor and the signal sometimes drop. AVR look like it was lock and then would come back on. Finally by pushing the cable in until a click solve the prob. Didnt really think too much why this happen since I was getting sound most of the time. I guess the optical was just in enuf to pass a signal but since it was loose then occasionally it dropped. But then this was just an audio issue but the AVR did locked up and the image that was being routed thru the AVR's component connections also went. Just a thought.

Originally posted by darryl b
i have a vinc bravo d1.
have any of you 2910 owners had the d1? is the 2910 a worthwhile upgrade?

Daryyl:

If you check out the new Secret Shootout Benchmark thread that is up, I posted this exact question.

Secrets DVD Benchmark shootout thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=454809&highlight=secrets)


I have a D1 too. That entire thread has a ton of information on current players and current displays and what dvd players are good for what. I almost think it should be a sticky since it contains so much info. Anyway, the reply I got was the next step up would HAVE to be the 2910 from my D1.

I honestly think V1 and their bravos are being seriously short-changed from my positive experience so far.

I might add, as I have tried to be fair and mention in most of my posts, my D1 has not been much a problem at except for doing firmware updates to it for the orignal loader. I bought one of the very very first ones and its seen heavy use. I occaisionally have to power it off and on to play a disc but thats it.

What is your display and its native resolution and what input are you looking it? Component? DVI?

Unfortunately I won't have it hooked up to my plasma for a few days yet to compare it head to head with the 1910, its connected to an older Sony XBR that only does 480i through the SVHS.

I don't think the 2910 does 480i through component, though SVHS is pretty much the same thing.

I do find the 4:3 aspect control of the Bravo D1 a problem. My first dvd into any player is a Star Trek Voyaher dvd usually. The open credits where the ship flys through a star's flares are a great test for the black blocking issue. In the Bravo it played on my big screen at 4:3 and I so wanted 16:9 for that

So I guess Denon changed their online store policy? 6ave.com says they can't sell Denon except from B&M stores. :(

Could always get it from Crutchfield...

Could always get it from Crutchfield...

Does anyone in the US or Southern California have the Denon DVD2910 in silver? Our Denon 3805 is silver & originally we had a DVD2200 in silver, but it had issues with playing progressive over component to our Mitsubishi DLP. So we returned it and now we have the 2910 on order. Any idea on when this is gonna come out? might upgrade to the 3910... would it be worth the price to get it sooner in silver? Where in So Cal can we get it in silver?

txmesdoc and others,

I had a scare with my Denon 2910 a couple of days ago. It started freezing on a DVD I was playing... when I tried to play it again, it said disc error. When I opened and closed the tray, it would play for about two minutes and then lock up again. I cleaned the disc and that didn't help. I changed to another dvd, and it was the same problem!

At this point, I power cycled the player, and since then, it has given me no problems, but it has got me worried. I am crossing my fingers that it doesn't come back again.

Couple of other questions:

regarding lack of control of chroma delay and gamma over dvi, does anyone know if that's one of the differences between 3910 and 2910? Just trying to find out if I should upgrade to 3910.

I don't entirely understand the player setting for audio and video on dvd-a. If it's set to audio, then it'll play only the dvd-audio tracks, and if it's set to video it'll play video and audio??? Getting confused here.

I know that 3910 people have some kind of firmware upgrade available (fixes y/c delay and pixel cropping, I believe. Does anyone know if 2910 has similar problems and needs an upgrade?


Thanks,
Stan

Originally posted by jazzcat
Jeff, Gamma is not adjustable via DVI; only on component. There is an explanation on page 48. Sharpness (mid-hi), chroma delay and gamma.

.

You're right.

BUMMER

I have had the same jitter/stutter problem on my new DVD-2910 as well. It happens only once or twice during a standard DVD playback through DVI, but enough to worry me. Is this a common problem?

Denon 2910 DVI to Samsung HLP HDMI is there any problems with this hook up...My 2910 is coming in 2 weeks. I bought this DVI-HDMI cable from Ram.

Greg,

Is your stutter problem intermittent once it starts, or is it a continual stutter once it starts?

Odd...I hooked an S-Video cable from DVD to TV (while still DVI connected) to see if it stutters on both outputs, and it hasn't stuttered now for half a day... I'm confused but somewhat hopeful...

Chris

jwv651: I have the Denon 1910 (on the basis of some of your earlier postings!--and very happy with it for my purposes).

With it, I tried using a DVI-HDMI cable from the 1910 (DVI) to my hlp 6163 (HDMI), and it did not work: had snowy static overlaying the picture. What did work was using a HDMI-HDMI cable, with a DVI-HDMI adapter ($35) at the 1910 end. Why the DVI-HDMI cable didn't work beats me; it should have. (All cables were Pacificable, which are usually considered quite solid.)

I'm using the 2910 to feed a Panny AE700 via HDMI to HDMI and have a problem that about every 30 mins or so I get snow then it looses the HDMI connection, then it returns.

Any Ideas

Originally posted by millerwill
jwv651: I have the Denon 1910 (on the basis of some of your earlier postings!--and very happy with it for my purposes).

With it, I tried using a DVI-HDMI cable from the 1910 (DVI) to my hlp 6163 (HDMI), and it did not work: had snowy static overlaying the picture. What did work was using a HDMI-HDMI cable, with a DVI-HDMI adapter ($35) at the 1910 end. Why the DVI-HDMI cable didn't work beats me; it should have. (All cables were Pacificable, which are usually considered quite solid.)

I had the exact same hookup with my Denon1910 DVI to Sam HLP6163 HDMI and had no problem...you might of had a bad cable...I bought my cable at Ram...I just brought back my 1910 for a 2910...I am hoping to use the same cable from Ram since it was not real cheap...I have a DVI-DVI from Pacificable hooked up to my Dish 811 receiver to the HLP works perfect. When I had the Ram DVI/HDMI cable hooked up to the 811 to HLP I had a lot of back ground noise. Does it ever end :confused:

What are your opinions of the sound quality of DVD-A/SACD? I'm linked to the Analog inputs of a Denon 3805 and I must admit I am very pleased with the results.

One thing I noticed is when I set all the analog input volume levels to 0dB on the 3805 and then set the master volume on the 3805 to 0dB to calibrate the speaker level to 75db with the 2910, I have to crank the volume substancially higher in analog mode as opposed to the digital input. For DVD movies via analog I am running at around -6dB and with digital coaxial input it runs about -18dB to achieve the same volume output.

jwv651: I will be very interested to hear your evaluation of the 2910 compared to the 1910. I've certainly read many posts saying the PQ of the 2910 is better, but then others that said 'not necessarily so'! I have no complaints with the 1910 I have (seems easy to adjust for any green tint by using the 1910's 'color' adjustment, without modifying the settings of the hlp) but one is of course always open to the possibility of improvement. I'm interested only in PQ via DVI, since I send the audio directly to an AV receiver via the digital optical cable.

I'd like to see someone do a comparison between DVI and component with the 2910 and an EDTV at 480p. From my experience, it appears the colors have more "pop" with component than DVI.

Originally posted by millerwill
jwv651: I will be very interested to hear your evaluation of the 2910 compared to the 1910. I've certainly read many posts saying the PQ of the 2910 is better, but then others that said 'not necessarily so'! I have no complaints with the 1910 I have (seems easy to adjust for any green tint by using the 1910's 'color' adjustment, without modifying the settings of the hlp) but one is of course always open to the possibility of improvement. I'm interested only in PQ via DVI, since I send the audio directly to an AV receiver via the digital optical cable.

As soon as I receive the 2910 and after calibrating with Avia...I will post my opinion...I have a Samsung tech coming out hopefully next week to replace my smudged screens and hopefully fix the problem with the red/pink faces that I can't get rid of on the HLP6163. The 1910 is a great player...I just felt the 2910 might be a little better in the PQ dept. We will see!

Thanks to my friendly neighborhood Tweeter, I just took home a Denon 2910 to do a direct A/B comparison to the 1910 which I've had for about a month. I only tested the DVI output because that's really all I was interested in. You might have read one of my other posts where I described the excessive macroblocking noise and green tinted artifacts during dark scenes on the "Day After Tommorow" DVD. Well I can tell you without a doubt that the 2910 almost completely eliminates all of this! You can still see some minor artifacts, but the green tint is completely gone and the macroblocking noise is very minimal. I was really hoping I wouldnt see a difference because now that I have, there's just no going back to the 1910. I also tested other discs with a lot of dark scenes... "Van Helsing" and "Underworld" for example. Same results, the 1910 has so much video "noise" during dark scenes that I dont know how I lasted this long with it. To be fair, I've heard that depending on your system (and how picky you are) you may not notice these artifacts to the same degree. In my case, I'm running the 2910 at 720p via DVI (BetterCables Display Magic DVI 3m) to a Samsung HLP-5085W. (Btw, in case you're thinking I'm picking up RF noise or some other type of interference, the entire system is line-conditioned and component isolated through an API PowerWedge) Overall, I'm really impressed with the quality of the 2910, but there are a few little things I noticed (remember, I only tested the DVI output). For one, the out-of-the-box black level seems higher than the 1910. (and this is even after adjusting the black level control setting on both) Colors also seem washed out (as in lacking saturation) and the picture in general has a "softer" look to it. The 1910 is slightly "crisper" at default settings. No worries though, like I said these are just the stock settings, the 2910 has so many video adjustments that I'm sure it can easily be adjusted to your liking. Another thing I noticed, the transport mechanism is definitely faster than the 1910...but noisier too. You can hear it whine when you first hit the play button. (After it starts going though its fine.) I also havent figured out how to turn off the front display on the player. (I would think a player at this level would have a display off feature.) Besides those few gripes, the 2910 appears to be an excellent DVI player. (The best I've seen so far!) I will most definitely be replacing my 1910, but I'm going to have them special order the silver version! :)

you can turn off the display on the front panel by the remote. if thats what your talking about.

Well, my 2910 has once again started freezing up on all my discs, so it's going back to the dealer for a replacement. First, my $3700 Samsung DLP comes with smudges on the inside of the screen, then a $600 DVD player craps out three days after I install it. Do these companies know the meaning of quality control, or what???:confused:

Originally posted by darryl b
i have a vinc bravo d1.
have any of you 2910 owners had the d1? is the 2910 a worthwhile upgrade?

Just aboout ANYTHING is a worthwhile upgrade from a D1.

Originally posted by DrJRapp
Just aboout ANYTHING is a worthwhile upgrade from a D1.


I completely disagree with that, I have done head to head comparisons with the Samsung HD841 and Denon DVD-1910 via component and dvi, neither was any improvement. Both had serious black macroblocking, esp the 1910 it was nasty on all the sci fi material and there are dozens of posts about it. I returned it for a 2910. The HD841 was not as good overall and had a softer image.

I just brought a Denon dvd-2910 home to try to see if its an upgrade. I use DVI primarily for my ouput. I won't be able to test it until I get to connect it up to my plasma.

I posted a list of dvd players to the experts in the recent Secrets Benchmarks DVD thread on here, and the 2910(it was the highest end of the choices) the only one anyone though was an upgrade fo DVI use.

Part of the problem I having in finding a replacement is the V1 besides having virutally zero EE and no macroblocking is the ability to go in and set both the display's frequency and map pixel per pixel your displays EXACT resolution in the D1's second custom menu for display properties/mapping. Its like getting features of a really expensive scaler in some ways. You are able to map your D1 or D2 to match your displays resolution and frequency, that makes one hell of a difference when you view the dvd's. It keeps additional conversions and therefore data loss taking place as the image goes though into the display.

The only knock I ever saw against the D1 were some mechanical reliability issues, which were pretty much fixed in the D2. However to be fair, I never had the issues other D1 owners had. For the 199$ pricepoint, and being released a year ago or more it really was a great value. I use it to drive a Pioneer 503 plasma, with the 503's native hertz horizontal and vertical, and the exact pixel properties of the 503 set in the D1's display properties menu.

The only issue I had other than firmware updates were the occaisional freezing up of a dvd when inserted to play. A power recycle fixed it. Several people have replaced the loader with region free drives and now have region free players.

From doing extensive research this past three weeks, the D1 is proving very difficult to upgrade. I am guessing among the offerings you can buy at this moment, the 2910 is probably the least you can go to step up next.

The panny is coming, it might be, no way to know yet. I am surprised no has even seen that thing yet.

Update on DVD-A discs. My 2910 will not play any of my AIX Records 96/24 5.1 hi res DVD-A's. It shows a warning stating that this side of the disc is hi res audio only and can’t be played on this DVD player and to turn the disc over and watch the video of the artist(s) with sound in Dolby surround. My Panny RP82 did not have this issue. Also I have a Chesky DVD-A and I can’t access the menu. It just says my choice is Dolby 5.1 with no means of playing beyond title #1.

In addition, the only visual menu I can get on some DVD-A’s is the playlist. No lyric options and no format choices (5.1 vs. 2 channel; Videos, making of shots, etc). This is totally different than what I saw when I use the RP82. Also with Beck’s Sea Change, still photos that normally sequence during the songs don’t show up anymore; just a list of songs.

On a positive note, I am very impressed with the audio quality of what I can actually listen to :rolleyes: but need to get these other issues resolved.

Im alittle confused on your post, you say the rp82 will play dvd audio??? are you using dvi when you are doing this? some have reported not seeing the menus on dvi. what are the settings you have for sacd and dvd audio?

jazzcat,

Most AIX discs are recorded on two sides - one side for players that can play DVD-A (MLP) and the other side for every DVD player (DTS track).

Select Player Mode to "audio" in "Other Setup" (the last tab) of the setup menu of your 2910; place AIX DVD-A with DVD-A side facing up; and it should play.

kevin, I am using DVI. And yes, the RP82 can play DVD-A. It has 5.1 analog connections on back. I will have to check the settings. Guess I may need to hook up component and verify.

jigesh, yes, I was trying to play the red side (DVD-A) and it told me to use the blue (DVD) side. I will verify and change it to "audio" and see what that does. Hope it is simple user error (stupidity) on my part! :D AIX DVD certainly didn't sound as good as the DVD-A side I was used to!

Thanks for the info and I will report back when I get home today.

Hope it is simple user error (stupidity) on my part!

No it's not. The DVD manufacturers should take care of it (auto-detect) instead of requiring users to preset it.

Originally posted by jigesh
No it's not. The DVD manufacturers should take care of it (auto-detect) instead of requiring users to preset it.

So will I have to do that every time I switch from DVD-A to watching a movie? I guess the 3910 has the same issue...

It will auto detect SACD though. Go figure.

no you should not have to do that. there is a auto detect mode for both dvd-audio and sacd,

Jazzcat,

If you want to see video information recorded on the DVD-A, then you have to do it. For example, if you want to see studio recording session video from the AIX discs (they often come with such video, like in Zephyr for example), then you again need to set Player Mode to Video. "Player Mode" of the 2910/3910 setup menu applies to DVD-A discs only (if I understood it correctly).

I need to be in front of the player to try. If that is the case then it must be set to video because I could play the DVD recording session but could not play the DVD-A side. But if that's the case, if in video mode I should have been able to see the option menus on the other DVD-A's that I have. :confused:

Which could refer back to the DVI issue. Glad I did not remove the component cables when I replaced the RP82. I will hook those up to see. Funny how if I have to use component to access menus it defeats the whole purpose of having all equipment connected through DVI.

Hello all, I don’t post much but I’m always hanging around these forums and getting helpful information, I thought I would give back a little.

I received my silver 2910 from Good Guys here in northern California last night. I have it hooked up to an XBR960 with HDMI cable I ordered from Ram. I calibrated it using THX optimizer only. I was only able to test out Star Wars 2 and Kill Bill 2 before my wife and I had to watch 13 going on 30 that she rented. Anyway, my impressions.. I do notice a visual improvement at 1080I compared to my old 480p player. Everything is sharper, tighter and more solid. However, I sit really close to my TV, around 7 to 8 feet, so I can see the difference. It’s a slight improvement only, and I doubt that my friends would be able to tell the difference. My wife can see the difference (after I kept asking her “It’s clearer right?”.. hehehe). But as long as I can tell and am happy right? That’s all that matters.

Now I did notice some macroblocking in 1080I in Star Wars 2, Chapter 4, in the dark red areas of the meeting room. It was really bad on my Tv’s Standard setting, but switching to Pro really helped and was less noticeable and I always use Pro anyway. There was no macroblocking when I switched it to 720p and 480p with the HDMI connection. But I’ll still keep it set to 1080i. I really like the 1080I picture. I tried adjusting 720p but it was much softer than 1080i.

Another thing I notice is that at 1080I, the picture flickers or jitters a bit on my Sony TV. I read other people had the same problem with the 1910. I was initially disappointed at first. But after watching through a whole movie of 13 going on 30, I didn’t even notice the screen flickering. Only if I pause certain scenes is when I can see the flickering, and on other scenes at 1080I, I don’t see any flicker at all. I’ll have to test out more movies tonight.

One more thing, the SRS Trusurround on this Denon is awesome on my XBR960’s speakers. Works effectivly in my little apartment. My wife and I were really impressed. I bought the 2910 for the HDMI video upgrade only, but I must say the sound is what’s helping me cope with the $649 price tag.
Anyway, I have to get back to work.. It’s almost lunchtime.

The Hutch

Greetings! Has anyone yet tested the Denon DVD-2910 with a Sony HS-20 Projector via HDMI??? Any initial thoughts regarind audio & video quality?? Considering this player but want to first make sure the addtional cost v. the upcoming Sony HDMI-based DVD player is justified.

Thanks for the info jigesh. It was set on video. I changed it to audio and all is well. It does in fact autosense all formats now for DVD, SACD and DVD-A.

Glad it worked, jazzcat.

Anybody here using the 2910 DVI/DVI with the popular Panny AE500 yet ????????? If yes, would like to hear your comment as well as the settings. Thanks.

The jitter on my 2910 happens for a brief second only, like a blip, once or twice on a regular 2 hour DVD. It does not freeze up. I'm using DVI with a Toshiba 51HX83 and a Monster DVI cable. If that's the only flaw, I'll live with it because of the incredible PQ. But I'm concerned it may be a signs of a bigger problem. Any thoughts on this? Minor flaw or major design problem?

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie at all this but i got a guestion here if anyone kind enough to direct me. same as Smitchell i got a sony HS-20 projector and AVR-3805 i've been reading some review on the DVD-2910 i really like it but i was wondering if the sony HDMI is a better value since it's only half the price and i'm not really concerning about DVD-A. any comment is much appreciated!!!!

sorry i meant the sony HDMI dvd player DVP-NS975v

This may seem like a naive question - but maybe someone can straighten me out on this. I have a JVC D-Ila, a Denon 2105 AVR, and am considering buying the 2910 (FYI - I had to return my first 2105 because it kept turning itself off). If I use the HDMI out from the DVD player to the HDMI in of the TV, do I use optical audio into the AVR for surround? Since this is the only way I can figure out how to get surround, what's the point of having these HDMI inputs in a TV? And please let me know if I'm wrong about the surround input. Thanks

Good Day To All,
I'm mostly a lurker here due to the fact I feel like I'm cheating on HTF every time I come over and take a peek:eek:
First I'd like to say I'm disappointed that others around the Home Theater arena are pointing to this thread as well as others and using it as a reference to inform others of all the difficulties/problems/glitches with Denon's new 2910.
Personally, I've had the player for 2 weeks now and have as of yet to experience one hiccup ( knock on wood:D ).
While my last player (Zenith DVB-318) served me well for the last couple of months and provided me with outstanding PQ, I felt the need to upgrade to a universal player that offered SACD/DVD-A capability and still provided me with the 1080i picture I've come to know and love.
Of course before posting about any potential problems I might encounter I ran through the the normal protocol of resetting all of my previous tweaks made to my display "Sony KP-57WS510" that I annotated for my DVI-input(video-7). This is crucial if your going to be using another a/v source. While all the previous service menu adjustments were suited for the signal input by the Zenith, I was switching input devices so in turn I reset all specs back to factory default settings (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SVM) before starting in on the 2910 via the service menu and calibrating with DVE.
Initially I just let it blue screen for a short period of time on the default Denon start-up screen before manually adjusting convergence. Then ran it through the "Basic Calibration" setup. Adjusted overscan (5%-H)(-5%-V) which I actually made through the Denon as compared to the Service menu which I found to be very convenient for a change
:) After doing so I then went through the service menu and tested out the other settings I had implemented for use with the DVB-318 and found that most adjustments did not produce the PQ as they did before, and I indeed needed to do less for an overall better picture, which is nice, and tells me that the Denon indeed produces a very nice "Out of the Box" PQ. I also found that using the Denon's "Black Enhancer" works rather well in conjunction with the service menu's UBLK settings, tweaked just right (UBLK-3 for me) blacks are indeed black without being overbearing. Other than that, setup was pretty basic after going through the owners manual and setup guide .
I heard a reference to screen flicker, is the screen jumping/moving while paused or are you seeing a change is brightness in areas of the screen. The most common causes of bright level flux is power related. I found this out after 2 months of playing in service menu settings, surge protectors etc... After getting my new A/V stand I went through and separated/isolated all power cables from a/v cables and sure enough after two months of living hell I fired it up and "Poof!!" problem solved. It still puts a smile on my face to this day :) :rolleyes: :) kind of funny how something so basic that I had overlooked caused me two months of heartache and head scratching, frickin amazing !!!

Anyone tested the firmware located at:
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29755603 ?

Originally posted by arioch
Anyone tested the firmware located at:
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29755603 ?

Is that 2910 multi region?

Originally posted by ZZtop
I don't think the 2910 does 480i through component, though SVHS is pretty much the same thing.

Yes, the 2910 does 480i and 480p via component. In fact, the 2910 will ONLY do 480i via component if you have the 2910 set to any other setting than HDMI/DVI OFF.

I have my 2910 feeding my HT1000 both a 480i component and 720p DVI signals, so when necessary, I can use a combination of 2910 and HT1000 image controls only available via the component output.

Originally posted by ZZtop
[B]Part of the problem I having in finding a replacement is the V1 besides having virutally zero EE and no macroblocking is the ability to go in and set both the display's frequency and map pixel per pixel your displays EXACT resolution in the D1's second custom menu for display properties/mapping. Its like getting features of a really expensive scaler in some ways. You are able to map your D1 or D2 to match your displays resolution and frequency, that makes one hell of a difference when you view the dvd's. It keeps additional conversions and therefore data loss taking place as the image goes though into the display.

I would love to hear how you think the 2910 DVI output compares to the D1 signal being 1:1 pixel mapped to the display resolution.

I have some questions for you guys. I was looking at the 2910 just to upgrade from my current 4yr old player (it was like one of the first players with progressive scan). I'm almost ready to buy it, but i need some answers first:

1.) I only have a RPTV with component inputs and don't care about DVI and HDMI video upconversion (although it's good for the future). Will the Denon's progressive output be a noticeable improvement over my 4yr Mitsubishi player with like a 10bit/54mhz video DAC?

2.) I have read that the audio on this (and all denon players) is exceptional! I heard that the CD playback is so good, that it renders DVD-A and SACD almost unnecessary. Will I be able to hear this using digital outputs to my receiver? I know that generally speaking, it's the receiver's DAC that will be used. However, this guy on epinons.com said that the movie audio coming from this player was noticeably better than other players, even though he was using a digital output and he couldn't understand it. Maybe I'm missing something. Can the player enhance the digital output somehow??

3.) Will the (assumed) enhanced picture quality, audio quality, and high res audio capabilities (which I don't care too much about) be worth the investment now with HD-DVD coming in the near future? I figure HD-DVD and/or Blu Ray hardware AND software won't be readily available at reasonable prices until at least mid 2006. That's about two years.

Thanks

Originally posted by Bytehoven
I would love to hear how you think the 2910 DVI output compares to the D1 signal being 1:1 pixel mapped to the display resolution.

I am too, for the moment I don't have access to the plasma so I can't test it yet, its going to be a week or so.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Yes, the 2910 does 480i and 480p via component. In fact, the 2910 will ONLY do 480i via component if you have the 2910 set to any other setting than HDMI/DVI OFF.

I have my 2910 feeding my HT1000 both a 480i component and 720p DVI signals, so when necessary, I can use a combination of 2910 and HT1000 image controls only available via the component output.

Then my Sony XBR has a bug, it won't accpet 480i via component. It was the top of the line Sony Tube , but from about 8 years ago or so. Odd that it would not work, its got component inputs. My dealer said one model run had frequency issues. I guess this must be the one, its my spare set, but an extremely high quality tube, this is a shame. I need to check on this further, maybe by swapping out another dvd player on the component inputs with 480i source.

Originally posted by ZZtop
Then my Sony XBR has a bug, it won't accpet 480i via component. It was the top of the line Sony Tube , but from about 8 years ago or so. Odd that it would not work, its got component inputs. My dealer said one model run had frequency issues. I guess this must be the one, its my spare set, but an extremely high quality tube, this is a shame. I need to check on this further, maybe by swapping out another dvd player on the component inputs with 480i source.

Maybe there is something odd about the way the 2910 does 480i. I say this because, when I was checking the INFO menu on the HT1000 as I looked at each signal setup, it did not read 480i. Instead it reads as:

YCbCr60
Component
Hor Frq 15.75 MHZ
Ver Freq 59.94 Mhz

I will try the 2910 with my Beta SP video deck, to see if the VTR sees the 2910 480i component signal.

idealty, I can't comment on the component video quality as I am hooked up via DVI. It does have dual 12-bit, 216-MHz Video D/A Converters so I would think you will see an improved picture plus it has the ability to adjust picture quality in many different parameters.

I haven't played a regular CD yet but the audio quality with DVD-A/SACD is very good; in fact after doing some critical listening I decided not to order the 3910 for comparison. I am very satisfied with audio quality and can't justify spending another $600 at this point. If the 3910 is indeed $600 better soundwise, then ignorance is bliss for me! :D

As far as the player enhancing the digital output, some will argue it can't happen but some say they can hear a difference. If you purchase one from Tweeter or Crutchfield you can test drive it and see for yourself for 30 days.

I'm currious how this player would compare to my HTPC? I've been wanting a dvd player that will output over DVI to my Projector and have only tested the HD931 so far. I was not impressed with it and returned it. So for now I use my computer to handle dvd duty, but it is a hassel to bring in my PC every time I watch a movie. So I'm really wondering how the picture and audio quality will compare to my PC. Any experiences out there?

Originally posted by arioch
Anyone tested the firmware located at:
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29755603 ?

Just burnt it and updated my 2910 with it. Woooo hoooo! Its region free. Though I have no idea what this firmware is or the version. Hopefully its a modded version of the current firmware. That French page translates like this:

I make small a récap on the dézonnage of these machines: For dézonner, it is enough to: 1 to download the firmware corresponding to its reader, 2 the dézipper 3 to engrave it with Nero (without particular adjustment) 4 to insert CD engraved in reader 5 to let the reader rewrite the firmware (writing) 6 to await jusqu'à automatic l'ouverture of drawer 7 to extinguish the reader (not with the button stand by, l'éteindre completely) 8 to relight it... it is from now on multizone, RCE included/understood. This manipulation went for my 2910. However, one finds a manipulation more complete. Jusqu'à 7 nothing changes. But from the 8 that changes: 8 to relight the reader and to close the drawer. 9 to support and maintain to support the button Play, and Forward Skip and Open during more than 3 seconds jusqu'à what "Initialized" s'affiche.

Since this seems work it should probably have its own thread so its not lost in here probably.

Anyone have any idea of how to check what version the firmware is?

YEAH!!! finally got our silver Denon DVD 2910!!! Just watched Star Wars A new Hope and it was sooooo sharp. There was no graininess to the picture at all. We have a Mitsu 52725 DLP TV, Denon AVR 3805, Polk Rti tower speakers, and everything hooked up with Monster cables that have silver conductors. However, I noticed there seemed to be a bit too much green on some of the dark scenes. And on other scenes with tie fighters flying around, there seemed to be a green box around each one as they flew across the screen. You can also hear the difference between how different voice tracks are recorded, like some sounded muffled, some sounded like it had too much hiss, others sent to much bass to the center channel and made it distort... and this is all in the same scene with different charcters talking. We have a monster HDMI going to the TV and a Monster Digital coax from the DVD player to the reciever.

For those with a similar setup, what settings do you have your TV on and what settings do you have the DVD player on. We don't have an Avia disc to calibrate yet so can anyone share their settings?

Just finished an intense audio session with some SACD discs I have. The sound this thing puts out continues to amaze me! :D Happy camper here. The vocals are just incredible. Soundstage and clarity is phenominal. You can distinguish each instrument with no stress whatsoever.

Two thumbs up!

We don't have an Avia disc to calibrate yet so can anyone share their settings?

I'm sorry, I don't have settings to share. Someone else?

But I just had to say that I'm amazed at how many people will spend so (too) much money for those Monster cables, and not pick up an Avia or DVE disk for about $30! Trust me, it'll help much more than those cables. And BTW, there is no such thing as a "digital" coax. I agree, it's better to buy good cables, but this hype about "designed for digital signals" and such is a lot of crap IMO. It's really just another 75 ohm cable.

Whew! I feel better now... thanks.:D

Enjoy the new 2910. Should get mine on Tuesday!

Jeff

tossing around the idea of upgrading to a upconvert DVD player. Anybody using the 2910 with the Sanyo Z2 projector?

I've recently purchased the new Denon AVR 2805 receiver along with a full Axiom speaker setup which ROCKS....I would love to add the 2910 into the equation using DVI to my Z2 if I get some good feedback....

Thanks in advance...

Hey ya sir Quack:)

I don't know just sayin hi hehehe.

Originally posted by JeffZX9R
I'm sorry, I don't have settings to share. Someone else?

But I just had to say that I'm amazed at how many people will spend so (too) much money for those Monster cables, and not pick up an Avia or DVE disk for about $30! Trust me, it'll help much more than those cables. And BTW, there is no such thing as a "digital" coax. I agree, it's better to buy good cables, but this hype about "designed for digital signals" and such is a lot of crap IMO. It's really just another 75 ohm cable.

Whew! I feel better now... thanks.:D

Enjoy the new 2910. Should get mine on Tuesday!

Jeff


I agree, same rubbish about optical cables. Its light transmitting 0's and 1's. What utter nonsense and outrageous markup.

Originally posted by wildpanda86
YEAH!!! finally got our silver Denon DVD 2910!!! Just watched Star Wars A new Hope and it was sooooo sharp. There was no graininess to the picture at all. We have a Mitsu 52725 DLP TV, Denon AVR 3805, Polk Rti tower speakers, and everything hooked up with Monster cables that have silver conductors. However, I noticed there seemed to be a bit too much green on some of the dark scenes. And on other scenes with tie fighters flying around, there seemed to be a green box around each one as they flew across the screen. You can also hear the difference between how different voice tracks are recorded, like some sounded muffled, some sounded like it had too much hiss, others sent to much bass to the center channel and made it distort... and this is all in the same scene with different charcters talking. We have a monster HDMI going to the TV and a Monster Digital coax from the DVD player to the reciever.

For those with a similar setup, what settings do you have your TV on and what settings do you have the DVD player on. We don't have an Avia disc to calibrate yet so can anyone share their settings?


Although "A New Hope" was beautifully restored I wouldn't suggest using it as a measuring stick for your player. A movie that's been remastered (even if it is THX certified) is not going to produce the same A/V quality as say, "Star Wars AOTC" which is shot in High Def and uses Lucas's cutting edge technology for video and audio quality. If your going to use something as a benchmark I would suggest some commonly used setup disks DVE, AVIA which you might be able to rent from a local video store, possibly??..
But like you said you don't currently have one; so if yo don't own it already and you think you might have a little "green push", I would suggest renting or buying "Once Upon A Time In Mexico" If you have a green push problem it will be more than noticeable on this DVD. Personally, I think this DVD is in the top 3 DVD's for all around PQ, if not #1 period (Shot in High Def as well) and just provides outstanding eye candy period. I would also suggest you do a web search for green push and your display type, that is if you really have the problem. There might be a service menu adjustment to decrease it with one click of a button, or you could head down to Radio Shack for an attenuator to see if that helps. But, it's just my opinion and that of many others, that getting AVIA or DVE is a must before pursuing anything in the service menu of any display.

Ciao,
Steve

Originally posted by wildpanda86
For those with a similar setup, what settings do you have your TV on and what settings do you have the DVD player on. We don't have an Avia disc to calibrate yet so can anyone share their settings?
Check out the Mits thread for TV settings - search on "umr" in the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=418307

Nice Link!

For those interested in the Region Free Firmware upgrade go here for a quick how to guide ----> http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=214907

Please keep all involved updated on anything you experience. Thanks!!

Regards,
Steve

I agree, same rubbish about optical cables. Its light transmitting 0's and 1's. What utter nonsense and outrageous markup.

Yeah, and what's the deal with gold plated connectors on OPTICAL cables? "Huh... that looks more expensive. It's all gold and shinny." There's no (electrical) conduction thru optical cables. If fact, this isolation is the primary reason optical cables are used in many applications instead of standard wire.

OK.. my work here is done now.;)

Jeff

I am desperate to buy a silver 2910, but it doesn't seem like they've made it to the East Coast at all--I've called every Denon authorized dealer in NYC, and they either haven't received it yet or claim it isn't out anywhere at all, which is of course BS. I'd buy from Crutchfield, but their estimated in-stock date of 11/30 is painfully far away. Has anyone here actually purchased one on the East Coast? Any tips on where to look in the NYC area? Thanks in advance...

I've seen a few posts here from people with the Mits DLP RPTV (xx525, xx725) and the 2910. I currently have the Mits DLP and I'm planning on getting the Denon 2910 soon; but not for its HDMI upconversion capability.

On Mits DLP RPTVs, the HDMI input is converted to analog internally, before being routed to the final A/D converter for the 720p light engine. So at least on the Mits DLPs, contrary to what you might think, using the HDMI path will not result in a completely digital path from DVD to display.

In my opinion, the bottom line is this: You will go through two converters no matter whether you use component or HDMI. From that, I conclude this basically revolves around two fundamental questions...

1) Does HDMI upconversion in the 2910 provide picture improvement on the Mits DLP?
Probably not due to losses in the Mits D/A, A/D converters.
2) Which D/A converter is superior - the Denon or the Mits?
Safe assumption is the Denon is superior.

So I plan to use analog component connections between the two. Seems a shame to spend all that money on a superior 216mhz D/A video converter in the 2910 only to bypass them completely by using the HDMI output. I don't believe the HDMI upconversion will provide any benefit when used with the Mits DLPs because the two stages of D/A, A/D will trump whatever improvement the Denon digital scaler might have given. This might not be the case on other televisions that can take the HDMI input and display it natively without conversion. So YMMV depending on your display.

That's my take. Can't do any actual 1:1 comparisons because I don't have the 2910 yet.

I would have gone to Magnolia Audio Video for our cables since they carry better cables than Monster, However the higher line Monster cables seem to be pretty comparable to the lower line carried at Magnolia at the same price. As well as other online cables. Looking at different reviews and such, what is came down to was wether or not the cables had silver as a conductor. The model line Monsters that we got have silver as a conductor... additionally we wanted to get everything at once in one place.

BTW, I figured out the weird green push problem. I don't think it is the color settings at all. We switched the DVD player back to 420P and still left it connected via HDMI, and the green all went away. I noticed on the THX setup menu... looking at the aspect ratio boxes, there would be all these green dots if the DVD player was set to 720p and even more pronounced at 1080i... and then it all went away at 420p. Additionally the 420P setting seemed to have better color and better picture than the other settings... especially with darker seens. This is all going through HDMI. Gonna have to try going through components to see if there is any sort of difference.

However I did try 720p with the latest James Bond DVD and I did not notice any of what I am noticing with Star Wars.

ALso I just watched Empire Strikes Back in 420P and it was just as sharp in 720p with out the green dots/ blotches and green push in dark seens, however the sound was much more balanced and cleaner and it did not over emphasize the center channel.

The reason we don't have Avia is because Good Guys does not have it, will have to try Best Buy.

Originally posted by JeffZX9R
Yeah, and what's the deal with gold plated connectors on OPTICAL cables? "Huh... that looks more expensive. It's all gold and shinny." There's no (electrical) conduction thru optical cables. If fact, this isolation is the primary reason optical cables are used in many applications instead of standard wire.

OK.. my work here is done now.;)

Jeff


Actually I've never seen a gold plated TOSLINK before, would like to see a pic if you got one.....
You might be referring to a coupler, but by no means is it necessary to use one unless you really screwed your measurements on a substantial run of optical cable and decided to use a coupler to cut down cost by using the existing and adding on....

What are people doing with the power at the end of the day: do you leave it on 'stand by', or are you turning it off completely? (Don't think the amount of electricity is significant, but don't want to shorten the life of the electronics.)

Originally posted by HTBruceM
I've seen a few posts here from people with the Mits DLP RPTV (xx525, xx725) and the 2910. I currently have the Mits DLP and I'm planning on getting the Denon 2910 soon; but not for its HDMI upconversion capability.

On Mits DLP RPTVs, the HDMI input is converted to analog internally, before being routed to the final A/D converter for the 720p light engine. So at least on the Mits DLPs, contrary to what you might think, using the HDMI path will not result in a completely digital path from DVD to display.


Interesting post HTBruceM. I own a 52525 and a 2910. I didn't know that about the Mits converting to analog internally. I did a test of the HDMI and component with the 2910. It was a bit cumbersome to switch back and forth as my NetCommand was previously set up for my HD Tivo on HDMI. While I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I could see very little difference between the HDMI and component on the 2910. I was considering an HDMI switch (gefen.com) but I'm not sure it's worth $250 if I can't see a big difference. I like the 2910 a lot so far and like having HDMI for future compatibility if I ever mate it with another TV. Still, I can see the argument for the older 2900 if you're not going to use the HDMI.

Originally posted by sbtv
I didn't know that about the Mits converting to analog internally. Yep. To maintain a complete digital path and still support all the various HDMI resolutions, they would have had to design their own digital scaler. I think it was much easier for them (i.e. cheaper, faster to design) to just convert the HDMI to analog and then treat that input just like all the other analog inputs. It allowed them to leverage much of the circuitry from their prior designs and "drop in" the final A/D and light engine.

If I were in marketing, and I was selling a design that kept the signal in the digital domain from the HDMI connector all the way down to the DMD device, I would certainly have a flashy copyrighted name for it. Then I'd make sure its all over the specs and advertising, and pump my sales force to push it like its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I've not seen any TV mfgr actually say that, so it makes me wonder if any of them stay completely in the digital domain from HDMI to display.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
I've not seen any TV mfgr actually say that, so it makes me wonder if any of them stay completely in the digital domain from HDMI to display.

Just a question...isnt the Samsung DLP all digital?

Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
Although "A New Hope" was beautifully restored I wouldn't suggest using it as a measuring stick for your player. A movie that's been remastered (even if it is THX certified) is not going to produce the same A/V quality as say, "Star Wars AOTC" which is shot in High Def and uses Lucas's cutting edge technology for video and audio quality. I

Good point, except I would argue AOTC did not have as good a job done on the Mgped encoding. While AOTC may have inherently greater resolution and quality in the master, it did not translate well to the DVD. Certainly better than Pahntom Menance, but I think the new trilogy looks just a litte better from a DVD master stand point.

Originally posted by Tinker
Just a question...isnt the Samsung DLP all digital? Dunno. From the improvement people have seen using DVI inputs - perhaps. Someone with a schematic of one of the Samsung sets could tell us. Anyone out there with a schematic? Check out the path from DVI to the light engine...

While I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I could see very little difference between the HDMI and component on the 2910.
I am considering purchasing this player and don't understand how this would be possible considering the output via component is 480i/480p. Does anybody else believe this to be this case?

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Good point, except I would argue AOTC did not have as good a job done on the Mgped encoding. While AOTC may have inherently greater resolution and quality in the master, it did not translate well to the DVD. Certainly better than Pahntom Menance, but I think the new trilogy looks just a litte better from a DVD master stand point.

Great point!,
I agree, the trilogy set is splendid indeed, alot of work went into the DVD master. But! just don't use it as measuring stick. Come to think of it, after all this Star Wars talk I just might have a Star Wars Trilogy-Thon after I get off of here !! :p :p

Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
I am considering purchasing this player and don't understand how this would be possible considering the output via component is 480i/480p. Does anybody else believe this to be this case? The situation is more complex than "the highest number is best" or "digital is better than analog". I believe the entire path from DVD to your TV display needs consideration. The post is in reference to the Mits DLP TV and the 2910. In that scenario, the Mits converts the HDMI into analog. That conversion is bypassed when using the component inputs. So we need to determine which method will result in the best input to the Mits final A/D 720p converter. Here are the two possible connection methods:

2910_Scaler----HDMI-----MitsD/A--------MitsA/D------Mits720pDisplay

2910_D/A----- Comp----------------------MitsA/D-------Mits720pDisplay

As you can see, the last two steps are common to both methods. So we're left to figure out which method will result in the best analog signal at the input to the MitsA/D section. My money is on the 2nd method assuming good quality component cables.

What is the better picture for the 2910 running through an EDTV? DVI 480p, DVI 1080i, or 480p component? Does the DCDi chip only come into play using component cables? Thanks!

Well, saw considerable MB with the 2910 in DVI/480p on my EDTV Panny.

Was watching the opening scene of Van Helsing, where he's fighting Mr.
Hyde.

Switched to 1080i, completely went away.

Didn't get a chance to check the same scene with component before returning the movie though. Completely forgot about that.

Originally posted by Clepto
Well, saw considerable MB with the 2910 in DVI/480p on my EDTV Panny.
Was watching the opening scene of Van Helsing, where he's fighting Mr.
Hyde. Switched to 1080i, completely went away. Now there is one good argument for using HDMI between the Mits DLP and the 2910...

Originally posted by HTBruceM
The situation is more complex than "the highest number is best" or "digital is better than analog". I believe the entire path from DVD to your TV display needs consideration. The post is in reference to the Mits DLP TV and the 2910. In that scenario, the Mits converts the HDMI into analog. That conversion is bypassed when using the component inputs. So we need to determine which method will result in the best input to the Mits final A/D 720p converter. Here are the two possible connection methods:

2910_Scaler----HDMI-----MitsD/A--------MitsA/D------Mits720pDisplay

2910_D/A----- Comp----------------------MitsA/D-------Mits720pDisplay

As you can see, the last two steps are common to both methods. So we're left to figure out which method will result in the best analog signal at the input to the MitsA/D section. My money is on the 2nd method assuming good quality component cables.

We tried a number of different scenes from different movies comparing component video cables @480P vs HDMI @720P on our Mitsu DLP 52725. First of all, there seems to be no difference in sharpness or resolution between the two. I guess this is because the Mitsu will upconvert it to 720P regardless of what the input is.

The HDMI on the other hand seems to magnifiy any noise/ or problems with the video. For instance in all the dark scenes for Star Wars, Day after tomorrow, and Pirates of the Caribean it seems to have a weird green haze. In Star Wars, A new hope, when the droids where captured and placed with all the other droids to be sold, the color blackness was completely uneven and there was some green artifacts. If you switch it to 480P via HDMI, this diminishes, and at 1080i these all get worse. Via Component on the other hand, there does not seem to be any problems & the pictures are crisp and clear.

Does anyone else with a Mitsu DLP have similar experience with their Denon?

The store near us is willing to give us a floor model Denon DVD2900 (equivalent to current 3910)... for less, should we take them up on their offer? or stick with the 2910 (equivalent to old 2200) and use the components.

Once setup correctly, the picture and sound on the Denon is simply amazing.

wildpanda86,

About the green dots at 720p/1080i...

I have a stb that I connected with DVI that did just what you described (no problem at 480p, big problem at 720p and bigger problem at 1080i) and it turned out to be a bad dvi cable.

-Reagan

I have been reading this thread for a while now. It has been a big help in my decision to purchase a 2910. However, I haven't yet seen anybody discuss a couple of problems I am having that I haven't been able to solve yet.

I have a 2910 feeding a 3805 (via Component and optical cable). The 3805 is feeding a Panny 42PWD7UY(via component as well). I am having two problems.

1) The subwoofer is not getting a signal when I play a DVD. I have set the sub signal to +10 on the 2910. But still no signal. Whn a DVD is playing and I go to 5 Channel stereo on the 3805 the subwoofer turns on. But if I am in DTS or Dolby the subwoofer doesn't turn on. If the subwoofer is on in DTS or Dolby there is no sound from the subwoofer. When a CD is playing
the sub goes on when pure direct, direct or 5 ch stereo is selected on the 3805.

2) The other issue I am having is that the the panny will not show an image when the 2910 is in progressive mode. I haven't played around with this as much as the sub issue. So I am putting it out there hoping somebody has a quick fix.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Originally posted by tihead
The other issue I am having is that the the panny will not show an image when the 2910 is in progressive mode. I haven't played around with this as much as the sub issue. So I am putting it out there hoping somebody has a quick fix.

If you mean a signal from the component outputs, here is the fix.

With the HMDI/DVI output set to OFF, the compoenent output will display either a 480i or 480p signal.

With the HDMI/DVI set to anything but OFF, the component output will only display 480i and you have to change the setting in the main SETUP menu to INTERLACED. Then you get the 480i signal from the component ourputs.

RJ
...

Bytehoven,

Thanks, that worked.

Now if I can figure out why I'm not getting a signal to the subwoofer I'll be really happy......

Originally posted by Reagan
wildpanda86,

About the green dots at 720p/1080i...

I have a stb that I connected with DVI that did just what you described (no problem at 480p, big problem at 720p and bigger problem at 1080i) and it turned out to be a bad dvi cable.

-Reagan

If that is the case, I am gonna try to return the HDMI that we have for another one & see if that fixes things. On the other hand, do you think it can be a loose HDMI connection? The HDMI on the back of the Mitsu seems to fit a bit loosely.

Are you sending digital coax/optical out to the receiver from the DVD player? If so, the receiver should have control over the LFE...

Clepto,

Yes, the DVD player is hooked up to the 3805 via the digital optical cable. It looks as though the receiver is getting the LFE signal for some DVDs. Maybe I should configure the subwoofer to be LFE+Mains?

Originally posted by tihead
Clepto,

Yes, the DVD player is hooked up to the 3805 via the digital optical cable. It looks as though the receiver is getting the LFE signal for some DVDs. Maybe I should configure the subwoofer to be LFE+Mains?

Have you gone through the Auto EQ setup on the 3805? I assume you did and the sub level was properly set? Assuming your Toslink cable is good, and the sub cable is good and is properly connected to the sub output, you should get sub response when watching any DVD. On those where there does not appear to be any sub response, have you tried adjusting the sub volume using the Enter button on the remote and/or turning up the volume on the sub itself, with still no effect? Lastly, in Setup have you assigned the correct Optical input for DVD?

Originally posted by tihead
Yes, the DVD player is hooked up to the 3805 via the digital optical cable. It looks as though the receiver is getting the LFE signal for some DVDs. Maybe I should configure the subwoofer to be LFE+Mains? Do you maybe have the digital output of the 2910 set to PCM instead of normal?

There was a discussion a week or so ago--either in this thread or another--about whether it was better to use the RGB or YCbCr option in the HDMI output of the 2910 into an HDMI input of the display (e.g., a Sammy hlp). But I don't remember ever seeing the CONCLUSION of the discussion!

By now does anyone know the answer (if there is a general one) to this question? (I have a hard time telling much difference with my uneducated eyes.)

I kinda think, when in all of these new upconverting dvd players, consenses is to use component video, why we have to buy direct digital path players lol?

I am not sure of the technical details, but I read something on a U.K. blog somewhere in the last week by a guy who claimed to be an engineer. In his blog he claimed some of these issues and the black levels in particular were one of the reasons we needed a larger number of user available settings/software control adjustments on these new players with DVI and HDMI but are not getting them.

He wrote that HDMI is not 100% pure pristine digital as much as DVI is. He also wrote about the loss of some of blackness levels on one of the 2 connections. The latter part I have seen posted on here recently, that you lose some of the shade of black.

He might be talking out the side of his a**, but I thought maybe someone who has followed this topic more closely or is in the business can address this?

Originally posted by zoro
I kinda think, when in all of these new upconverting dvd players, consenses is to use component video, why we have to buy direct digital path players lol?

You know, when I first setup my 2910, I connected the component cables only and watched a couple of DVDs. I noted in an earlier post in this thread that the dark, spotlit scenes in "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" showed badly dithered halos using component. Someone else noticed overall graininess in dark scenes. Since then I A/B compared the same scenes over DVI and was surprised by the improvement in PQ. Mind you, the difference is not something I'd likely notice in typical viewing, but in this one specific case at least, the dithering was very noticeable in component, but nearly eliminated over DVI. This doesn't make purchasing a DVI switch worthwhile yet, but if I see the same issue repeatedly on other DVDs, I'm going all digital...

Since my display's scaler, etc. probably also figures in (I have a Samsung HLN DLP) does anybody with this DVD and a different display want to do the same A/B comparison and report your findings? I can post the chapter/time of the scenes if necessary.

-Corey

Originally posted by coreymd

My first impression is that the audio this player produces is light years beyond anything I've experienced with my HT before. I've got a mid-level Yamaha receiver that I thought was fantastic before using the Denon's DACs. I can't believe there is so much of a difference between the two. The soundstage is more precisely defined and I don't get listening fatigue at even above reference dB levels. I actually feel like I was missing the true theater experience without this player - and underutilizing my Klipsch speakers. I know why those "audiophiles" spend so much on pre/pros and amps now. :)


I just don't get it. Why are the DACs even an issue since you are obviously using a TOSLINK cable between your DVD player and your receiver??

Originally posted by ndahbar
I just don't get it. Why are the DACs even an issue since you are obviously using a TOSLINK cable between your DVD player and your receiver??

You can also use the anolog outs from the 2910 to the AVR if it has the ability to accept multi channel inputs. The 2910 has the DD and DTS decoder built it also so the he could be refereing to the external inputs on his AVR as opposed to the optical/coax digital inputs. In that case the 2910 DACs are used.

Regarding Millerwill's question about YCbCr or RGB for HDMI here's something from the "HDMI is better than DVI!!" thread that states there is a theoretical advantage to using YCbCr IF you have a display device like the AE700 or Z3 that will do 10 bits and HDMI.....

The pixels on a DVD or from a digital TV broadcast (*the* sources of today!) are (by definition of the MPEG compression standard being used) in YCbCr format with 8 bits/color component (actually I believe that they are in YCbCr 422 format, i.e. there are only color values for every second pixel horizontally, but let's not complicate things unnecessarily).

- The latest generation of display devices use (by way of their very physical construction) RGB pixels with 10 or even more bits per component (e.g. Panasonic AE700 and Sanyo Z3 projectors claim 10-bit processing, don't know about the actual LCD panels, or e.g. the 5th generation Pioneer plasmas claims "7 billion colors" in their marketing - which would be about 11 bits / color component (altough it is my suspicion is that they are using stochastic temporal dithering to very cleverly fake that on an 8-bit device, but never mind that...)).

Now consider the case when you use DVI to communicate between a DVD player and a display device (in the following ^ denotes "to the power of"):

- YCbCr 8-bit data in DVD player -> Player converts to RGB 8-bit adding quantization noise estimated on the order of the least significant bit, i.e. about 2^(-8) -> RGB 8-bit over DVI connection -> RGB 8-bits received by display device -> Upconverts to RGB 10-bit (by padding with zeros I guess) -> RGB 10-bit for any internal processing -> RGB 10-bits at output pixels.

Now instead assume an HDMI capable a DVD player and a 10-bit color display device that can both "speak YCbCr":

- YCbCr 8-bit in DVD player -> YCbCr 8-bit over HDMI connection -> YCbCr 10-bits received by display device -> Display device converts to RGB 10-bit adding quantization noise estimated on the order of the least significant bit, i.e. about 2^(-10) -> RGB 10-bit for any internal processing -> RGB 10-bits at output pixels.

In this specific example you can see that we get 2^(-8) / 2^(-10) = 4x less quantization noise from the YCbCr->RGB conversion when using HDMI rather than when using DVI *with* a regular DVD source! The different would be even larger on say a 12-bit/color device. Of course, how perceivable this difference is, that is an entirely different question...

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Do you maybe have the digital output of the 2910 set to PCM instead of normal?


I found out that the DIG. out was somehow set on PCM. I changed it and things improved. But the sub still wouldn't get switched on for some DVDs. So I set the sub to LFE+Mains and things have improved more. I still need to look into it some more. I am not sure exactly what is going on yet.

Thanks, for your help.

Maltby: Thanks much for the analysis--very nice and illuminating. It would also be interesting to hear if people have any 'experimental' information on whether there is any perceptible PQ difference between these two ways of outpugging the HDMI.

Originally posted by ndahbar
I just don't get it. Why are the DACs even an issue since you are obviously using a TOSLINK cable between your DVD player and your receiver??

I don't use the digital audio outputs from the 2910 at all (they're disabled using a pure direct memory). I only use the 5.1 (6CH) analog audio connections between the 2910 and my receiver. The 2910's DACs process the DTS/DD5.1/SACD/DVD-A tracks and outputs the analog 5.1 discretes to my receiver which is set to "6CH" mode, which basically means the receiver only acts as an amp, and does not process the audio signal at all.

BTW- I didn't take offense, but what did I say previously that made it obvious to you that I was using TOSLINK?

I also understand that many (if not most) people posting here are using a Denon reciever as well, which makes the case for all-analog audio from the 2910 less of an issue. For me, the 2910 outperforms the digital audio processing capabilities of my Yamaha receiver.

-Corey

Edit: Yes, your explanation is correct, Tinker. Thanks.

coreymd: So you say that you get better audio by NOT using the digitial audio (TOSLINK) directly to the AV receiver? I had thought that this was always recommended. ???

Originally posted by coreymd
I don't use the digital audio outputs from the 2910 at all (they're disabled using a pure direct memory). I only use the 5.1 (6CH) analog audio connections between the 2910 and my receiver. The 2910's DACs process the DTS/DD5.1/SACD/DVD-A tracks and outputs the analog 5.1 discretes to my receiver which is set to "6CH" mode, which basically means the receiver only acts as an amp, and does not process the audio signal at all.

BTW- I didn't take offense, but what did I say previously that made it obvious to you that I was using TOSLINK?


-Corey



I just figured you were using TOSLINK...

So why use analog 5.1 discretes instead of the TOSLINK or coax-dig cable? Bypassing the AVR processing = better somehow? Just educating myself, I guess. :D

Better D/A converters in the 2910.
Analog path is only way to listen to DVDA and SACD material.

coreymd, what Samsung HLN do you have? I have the HLN507W which has the Faroudja DCDi. I am seriously looking at this player and want to know what others with Samsung DLP's using Faroudja DCDi and the 2910 think.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Better D/A converters in the 2910.
Analog path is only way to listen to DVDA and SACD material.

What he said! DVD-A and SACD sound stellar via analog outputs to my Denon 3805. I don't notice a lot of difference with DVD's through analog vs. toslink but watching movies is a little different from listening to DVD-A/SACD.

Daniel, I have the HLM507 and it looks excellent. I am having the DVI input ISF'ed on Friday so I can't wait to see the results. Any improvement will be icing on the cake :D

ndahbar,
You're exactly right. As others just mentioned, the 2910's Digital-to-Analog converters (for audio at least) outperform the DACs in my receiver for playing both audio discs *and* movie discs. More below...

millerwill,
In my case, I prefer the sound processing from the 2910 over what my Yamaha A/V receiver can do when processing the digital audio signal. Just a personal preference, but to me the soundstage is more clearly defined using the 2910. I'd compare the difference between my AVR's audio DAC and the 2910's audio DAC to the difference between DD5.1 vs. DTS, respectively (clearly a subjective issue in itself). Anybody here *not* have a Denon 3805 so we can compare notes? :)

Daniel,
I have the HLN-5065W, which I believe has internals identical to yours, doesn't it? I haven't had any inputs ISF'd - I just calibrated them myself using the VE disc. But I agree with jazzcat - to my eyes, both component and DVI look fantastic, with DVI having a slight edge.

Hmm, well, I have a HK AVR-230, which has inputs for 5.1 discrete.

Maybe I'll just get a 2910 to compare to my 1910 and try that audio out as well.

BTW! GO SOX!!! W000000000T!!!!! :D

Question: For those of you that have exhibited green-tint or "push" with your 1910's...does this mean that ALL your yellows, for example, where not that yellow, but rather, yellow-greenish?

If this is the case, then, for some reason, on my 1910, I don't get any of that. Because when something is vivid/pure yellow, i see it YELLOW with a capital Y. No problems.

And I also don't see any macroblocking at all. I finally saw that this is when watching a movie on TV (satellite) and their was a closeup on an actor's face and her cheek showed very evident macroblocking...squares of approximate colors (red/tan/whitish as u would expect for her cheek) dancing around, but they were clearly squares/blocks. It was an SD channel.

Never seen that with my 1910. TV is a DLP HD2+ 52 inch set.

I dunno. It's just not worth it to me to pay ~$600 or so to get a 2910 on top of my 1910 to test it out, because even after ALL the posts on this forum, you have all (no offense) failed in convincing me there is an issue, in the descriptions/pix posted. Can't see it. And yes, I did a complete AVIA calibration, and I was very anal about the settings for color/tint based on the numerous tests u can run and verify they are optimal.

Well, i guess i'll wait for something much cheaper to come out that can upconvert. Panny S97 I guess. Buy from local store and return if proves unworthy of challenging the so-far great 1910.

On my set up (Optoma H77 DLP HD2+ front projector), the 1910 had a green tint on the darker areas of the picture. For example areas that are supposed to be deep black or dark blue have a definite greenish cast. The 2910 I just got definitely does not suffer from this problem.

In addition, the 2910 has a very smooth layer change compared to the long pause on the 1910. And the 2910 is much more responsive. Also, on my set up, the 1910 had serious problems keeping the video and audio synchronized. The 2910 has not had this problem.

Of the above issues, the green tint and sound sync problems really killed the 1910 for me. I am glad the 2910 avoids those problems. I'm not thrilled at having spent $250 for the 1910 only to stop using it within 4 weeks of getting it. I will likely send it to Denon and request strongly that Denon fix these problems. If it does get fixed, I will likely sell it on ebay or give it to a friend with a plasma display.

Also, the 2910 is a bit pricey for what you get, but it does feel nice and solid and seems to perform well, so in the end it was probably worth it.

Ira

I just got a 2910, and I am very impressed so far. I have never had a high end DVD player before, so I can't really compare versus the best, but I am very happy with the purchase.

One thing I noticed was that DTS and Dolby 5.1 sound through the digital coax may actually sound better through my Denon 5800 receiver than when I used my old Yamaha 3750 player.

Originally posted by ZZtop
I agree, same rubbish about optical cables. Its light transmitting 0's and 1's. What utter nonsense and outrageous markup.

I can't argue about price markup, but I have to disagree with the posts about digital cables (S/PDIF or Toslink) not making a difference. They can make a huge difference. On my Denon 5800 (and my old Yamaha), every brand of digital cable sounds different, and there is a huge difference (mostly bad) when switching to Toslink. Those of you using Toslink should try the coax and see if it makes a difference yourself.

As for why they make a difference, it has nothing to do with bit errors. It has everything to do with the fact that the clock signal itself is going along the cable, integrated with the data itself. Recovering this clock without timing jitter is difficult enough that it simply isn't done well in 99% of products. The timing jitter can create anything from a harsh sound to a smooth washed out sound with no detail, depending on it's characteristics. My Denon 5800 is extremely sensitive to jitter. The highest quality stereo DACs are less sensitive.

As for the 2910, I watched the Fifth Element Superbit last night at 480p on component output. I noticed some film noise and grain in the image, but not objectionable. I guess if you want a sharp image, you can't complain about seeing the film grain. I did notice some pixelation of edges on the Diva's blue head and body during her singing scene against the black starry background, but that could be the film or any resampling in my Sony RP-CRT. I noticed some large green and pink splotches in the blacks of the door of Corben's appartment, where we first see him, just after the 17 minute mark. This could be a problem with the player -- but perhaps it is in the encoding. If others could verify whether this happens on their 2910, or other players, that would be appreciated.

Overally, though, there are times that the picture appeared similar to HDTV, though the film grain couldn't quite let me believe that I was watching a picture into another world. I am very impressed so far! The build of the unit is great. We'll have to see how the music through the player is shortly.

Neil

Originally posted by audioNeil
I noticed some large green and pink splotches in the blacks of the door of Corben's appartment, where we first see him, just after the 17 minute mark. This could be a problem with the player -- but perhaps it is in the encoding. If others could verify whether this happens on their 2910, or other players, that would be appreciated. I had the Denon 1910 for a week, and that scene was one of the reasons I returned it. You think it's bad on the 2910, you should see it on the 1910! It was bad on both component and DVI. The splotches were "dancing" all over the place.

Back to the 2910... I just tried the same scene with my Mits DLP, using both HDMI and component. I do believe that scene does have some encoding artifacts, and we're all seeing how the players handle it. You'd think the superbit would somehow be better than that. The 2910 did a really good job; only one brief blotchy segment on the door when Corbin walks toward the camera away from the yellow door.

I will tell you this; that scene never had splotches on my old Pioneer 480i player, although it looked a lot more grainy. But no way I'd go back to the Pioneer. I've only had about an hour to tinker with the 2910 so far. But from what I've seen to this point, the 2910 has looked absolutely stellar on HDMI720p, HDMI1080i, and even on Comp480p.

Originally posted by audioNeil
One thing I noticed was that DTS and Dolby 5.1 sound through the digital coax may actually sound better through my Denon 5800 receiver than when I used my old Yamaha 3750 player.

I can't argue about price markup, but I have to disagree with the posts about digital cables (S/PDIF or Toslink) not making a difference. They can make a huge difference. On my Denon 5800 (and my old Yamaha), every brand of digital cable sounds different, and there is a huge difference (mostly bad) when switching to Toslink. Those of you using Toslink should try the coax and see if it makes a difference yourself.

Neil

If that's true, then it could partly explain why my digital audio connections sound flat while the analog connections are crisp and detailed -- I was using the cheapest optical cable money can buy. :) Perhaps testing the digital input again with a higher quality coax cable is in order... I'd like to see if there is still a big difference between my AVR's DACs and the 2910's.

-Corey

Originally posted by coreymd
If that's true, then it could partly explain why my digital audio connections sound flat while the analog connections are crisp and detailed -- I was using the cheapest optical cable money can buy. :) Perhaps testing the digital input again with a higher quality coax cable is in order... I'd like to see if there is still a big difference between my AVR's DACs and the 2910's.

-Corey

You could try that, but a great many people have posted the analog inputs on their receivers/amps sounded better when connected to their players that way. It seems the analog inputs just often sound better. Warmer is often the comment made.

I also read several posts where the spdif coax connections were said to sound better than the optical connection.

While the quality of the optical cable may make a difference, I would still take a guess that the threshold of what is a quality digital cable is , and then the point where you are overpaying for nothing more that is useful, is less on both counts due to the fact it's digital.

Some people have a large amount of cables running close together as well. Inteference of all kinds is a concern then.

One of my neighbors ran heavy monster cabling for his plasma and sound along his hardwood floor next to his monster power strip. Under heavy load he got ghosting on images and a slight hollowness to his audio. But it was very occasional and intermittent. To say it frustrated his recent 20k purchase in a/v equipment was an understatement. Three months later wife cleaned, and moved all the cables around behind his equipment to dust, much to his dismay at the cables being moved around :eek: , BUT the problem went away.
The next day, being the dedicated home theater buff he put them all back where he wanted them to hide and the problem returned. So he spent an entire Saturday moving, drilling and restapling the cables around to fix the problem.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by coreymd
If that's true, then it could partly explain why my digital audio connections sound flat while the analog connections are crisp and detailed -- I was using the cheapest optical cable money can buy. :) Perhaps testing the digital input again with a higher quality coax cable is in order... I'd like to see if there is still a big difference between my AVR's DACs and the 2910's.

-Corey

When you're using a digital connection the Receiver's DACs are used. Conversely when you're using an analog connection the DVD player's DACs are used. The 2910's DACs are very good. This would explain what you see. Take it from me - a guy who's spent more on my cabling than for my 51" HDTV or my receiver. ($2K what was I thinking...) :rolleyes:

jc3

Originally posted by JeronimoColon
When you're using a digital connection the Receiver's DACs are used. Conversely when you're using an analog connection the DVD player's DACs are used. The 2910's DACs are very good. This would explain what you see. Take it from me - a guy who's spent more on my cabling than for my 51" HDTV or my receiver. ($2K what was I thinking...) :rolleyes:

jc3

This may be true. I'll have to check which sounds better when I get 6 cables to connect the analog to the receiver. However, in the past I found that my Denon 5800 has better sound through the internal DAC than analog input from a CD. This means the Denon has good DACs, but the better sound is more because the 5800 sounds bad with analog inputs. Not terrible -- just nowhere near audiophile quality. All analog sources have the life sucked out of them.

However, I bypass the receiver entirely for stereo. It can't come close to comparing with good stereo front end, either with external inputs or internal DACs. And, that means I must be compromising on multichannel as well. I can't wait to get a few more years of bonuses to be able to buy proper separates for multichannel (perhaps Bryston).

I think I beat you on cable costs ;) But, I still suggest that toslink users try any decent spdif coax (even a 1m length of component video cable will work). It makes a huge difference on my receiver.

I love the picture on the 2910, except I find I'm noticing the film grain more on all the Superbit titles. I seem to remember some sort of noise reduction setting in the manual? I wonder if that would just cause more problems than it solves.

Neil

Originally posted by ZZtop
You could try that, but a great many people have posted the analog inputs on their receivers/amps sounded better when connected to their players that way. It seems the analog inputs just often sound better. Warmer is often the comment made.

I also read several posts where the spdif coax connections were said to sound better than the optical connection.



ZZtop,
That's interesting... I've never paid much attention to the audio side of things before the 2910 and somehow arrived at the conclusion that digital optical was optimal (a common assumption I would guess).

JeronimoColon,
Yes, my original estimation was that the 2910's DACs were better than my AVR's. But after hearing the remarks about optical cable producing the least fidelity, I want to try another comparison using coax. I don't want to make any unfounded claims... or buy more expensive cables... :)

audioNeil,
In my experience, the one Superbit title I've seen, Bram Stoker's Dracula, was very grainy on my old RP-56 using component (never watched it on my Samsung 931). I've never tried another Superbit title as a result, so I don't know if it was an isolated event. Are you using DVI or component? I haven't noticed any more film grain than before I got the 2910 (Star Wars Ep IV comes to mind), but I can look at Dracula again this weekend. Have you tried changing the video modes (from auto to film... etc.)?

-Corey

My 2nd 2910 is still suffering problems, gone from stuttering to random intermittent pauses of 1-5 seconds in length. This on a just opened DVD.
Back again to Tweeter for a return. It also skips on SACD's. Time to find another player.

Chris

My 2nd 2910 is still suffering problems, gone from stuttering to random intermittent pauses of 1-5 seconds in length.A user posted an issue with the 2910 stuttering that appeared to be related to overheating. Positioning the unit where it can better vent might well have resolved this problem.

I picked up the 2910 at Magnolia A/V in Palo Alto on Tuesday but have been working super-long hours and didn't get a chance to hook it up until last night. I haven't had a chance to wire up the 6-channel audio outs to my Outlaw 950, so I just connected it to the pre-pro via the existing TOSLink and Audio Quest coaxial cable. The DVI-D output was connected to my Toshiba 34HDX82 via a 2 meter Audio Quest DVI-D cable.

I should say at the outset, I'm replacing a Denon 910 DVD player I purchased about a year ago as a stopgap. I like to wait for higher-end features to make their way down to mid-level players. I didn't see any reason to buy the 3910, given the 2910's pretty comprehensive feature set, and it's hard to argue with the price.

The 910 is physically so small and flimsy compared to the 2910, it's not even funny. The 2910 has a nice solid build, and the controls are simple, and have a good feel. Best of all, the remote control codes on my Pronto remote didn't need to be reprogrammed. :)

I must say, even without going through the Digital Video Essentials calibration yet, out of the box the upconverted picture is outstanding. Naturally I sampled some of the highest-quality DVDs I own. The image in "Finding Nemo" was outrageously clean, sharp, detailed, and as far as I could tell with my fatigued eyeballs, utterly free of artifacts. The color saturation was wonderful, but not overblown. One scene that always fascinated me in the movie is when Nemo's dad finds Nemo's egg and cradles it in his fin. The detail was as good as anything I see on my HD DirecTiVo from an off-air antenna source.

I also looked at the opening scene from the torture-test DVD, "Star Trek: Insurrection". No crawlies or jaggies on the sharp linear features in the opening scenes at all. The Faroudja DCDi chip in this baby really works well.

I did look at a few film sources other than the Star Trek movie, and saw the inevitable problem with all high-resolution players: the limitations of the source material are revealed for what they are. Film grain is much more noticeable, but it's not worse than it should be (there were no obvious unsharp-mask-like artifacts in my casual analysis). Oh well. I prefer a sharp image that reveals flaws in the source to a fuzzy image that masks them--and also puts a ceiling on the detail level for pristine source material.

I'll post more comments after I've had a chance to calibrate the display

Originally posted by JustJeff
I picked up the 2910 at Magnolia A/V in Palo Alto on Tuesday but have been working super-long hours and didn't get a chance to hook it up until last night. I haven't had a chance to wire up the 6-channel audio outs to my Outlaw 750, so I just connected it to the pre-pro via the existing TOSLink and Audio Quest coaxial cable. The DVI-D output was connected to my Toshiba 34HDX82 via a 2 meter Audio Quest DVI-D cable.

I should say at the outset, I'm replacing a Denon 910 DVD player I purchased about a year ago as a stopgap. I like to wait for higher-end features to make their way down to mid-level players. I didn't see any reason to buy the 3910, given the 2910's pretty comprehensive feature set, and it's hard to argue with the price.

The 910 is physically so small and flimsy compared to the 2910, it's not even funny. The 2910 has a nice solid build, and the controls are simple, and have a good feel. Best of all, the remote control codes on my Pronto remote didn't need to be reprogrammed. :)

I must say, even without going through the Digital Video Essentials calibration yet, out of the box the upconverted picture is outstanding. Naturally I sampled some of the highest-quality DVDs I own. The image in "Finding Nemo" was outrageously clean, sharp, detailed, and as far as I could tell with my fatigued eyeballs, utterly free of artifacts. The color saturation was wonderful, but not overblown. One scene that always fascinated me in the movie is when Nemo's dad finds Nemo's egg and cradles it in his fin. The detail was as good as anything I see on my HD DirecTiVo from an off-air antenna source.

I also looked at the opening scene from the torture-test DVD, "Star Trek: Insurrection". No crawlies or jaggies on the sharp linear features in the opening scenes at all. The Faroudja DCDi chip in this baby really works well.

I did look at a few film sources other than the Star Trek movie, and saw the inevitable problem with all high-resolution players: the limitations of the source material are revealed for what they are. Film grain is much more noticeable, but it's not worse than it should be (there were no obvious unsharp-mask-like artifacts in my casual analysis). Oh well. I prefer a sharp image that reveals flaws in the source to a fuzzy image that masks them--and also puts a ceiling on the detail level for pristine source material.

I'll post more comments after I've had a chance to calibrate the display


Agreed Jeff,
It's unfortunate that a few folks are having problems and I hope they get them resolved. Some issues here might be display related and not have anything to do with the 2910 at all.
All in all, I am totally satisfied with this player, it's PQ and audio performance...Puts a smile on my face everytime I throw in a DVD to watch or SACD to listen to...:D :p :D :p

At the risk of repeating some of my earlier comments, I also agree with Jeff and Steve. By coincidence, I also got my 2910 at the Magnolia in Palo Alto. The picture at 720p is very nice and smooth on my front projector, but does indeed show the grain in older films. The unit is also quite responsive and layer changes are fast and either invisible or barely visible.

I did have one problem where a disc started producing terrible random video noise blocks with sound drop out and then a frozen picture. However, this was a well used Netflix disc and a casual cleaning consisting of fog it with my breath followed by wiping off with my t-shirt cleared up the problem completely.

In general, I am quite pleased with everything about the 2910 except the price, but even the cheaper competitors that are arriving are in the $300 to $400 range.

Ira

Originally posted by jaylard
A user posted an issue with the 2910 stuttering that appeared to be related to overheating. Positioning the unit where it can better vent might well have resolved this problem.

I appreciate the comment. You might be referring to me, when I thought it had solved the problem when I sat the unit on top of the rack. I was able to watch an entire movie without a screw up. However, my joy was shortlived and it now occurs during every movie multiple times. It also occurs during SACD playback.

(The only difference lately was that instead of a stuttering/skipping activity, it now is a random pause activity...almost like a dirty disc...but the disc was literally just opened)

I'm sorta baffled that I'm the only one having this problem. Denon was of no help, they just say they have no reported issues. Perhaps it's something in my settup, but it just goes via DVI to Samsung DLP (tried 2 different DVI cables) and to an Outlaw 950 via optical as well as analog 6ch out.

Chris

Originally posted by iblumberg
In general, I am quite pleased with everything about the 2910 except the price, but even the cheaper competitors that are arriving are in the $300 to $400 range.

Ira

Well, one of the cheaper competitors, the panasonic S97, is being reported to have MB issues.

So far, I have yet to see MB coming from my 2910 at 720P on my HT1000, so I have no regret at the cost of the 2910 at this point.

I have had my 2910 for a week now and have about 16 hours of viewing under my belt and I too have not come across any MB. It is something that I am looking for because of AVS, yet haven't stumbled upon it.

2910 owners.... Check this out. Finding Nemo DVD, beginning scene, where Dad & Nemo are discussing his first day at school in their "house". The purple background at the base of the coral. Do you see large splotches in the purple area? I see it on component 480p, DVI 720 and 1080. The player is on its default OTB settings. TV is 52" Mits DLP RPTV.

No MB on Star Wars black space backgrounds.

Originally posted by audioNeil
This may be true. I'll have to check which sounds better when I get 6 cables to connect the analog to the receiver. However, in the past I found that my Denon 5800 has better sound through the internal DAC than analog input from a CD. This means the Denon has good DACs, but the better sound is more because the 5800 sounds bad with analog inputs. Not terrible -- just nowhere near audiophile quality. All analog sources have the life sucked out of them.

However, I bypass the receiver entirely for stereo. It can't come close to comparing with good stereo front end, either with external inputs or internal DACs. And, that means I must be compromising on multichannel as well. I can't wait to get a few more years of bonuses to be able to buy proper separates for multichannel (perhaps Bryston).

I think I beat you on cable costs ;) But, I still suggest that toslink users try any decent spdif coax (even a 1m length of component video cable will work). It makes a huge difference on my receiver.

I love the picture on the 2910, except I find I'm noticing the film grain more on all the Superbit titles. I seem to remember some sort of noise reduction setting in the manual? I wonder if that would just cause more problems than it solves.

Neil

The funny thing is my runs aren't long. The cab. is flush along the left side of the TV and I only have my 3 Components connected (HDCable, 2910, D-VHS) to my receiver. I bought them before I knew any better (before I discovered HT forums) and educated myself about HT. :o

jc3

I got a chance to compare the stereo sound on my 2910 last night versus my reference Bel Canto DAC2. The setup is:

1) (a) Denon 2910 stereo out, OR
(b) Denon 2910 SPDIF (via Harmonic Tech Platinum) to Bel Canto DAC2
2) 1m Harmonic Tech Pro Silway MkII
3) Placette passive preamp
4) 0.5m Harmonic Tech Pro Silway MkII
5) Bryston 4B-SST amp
6) 4m Kimber Bifocal-XL speaker cables (biwire)
7) Magneplanar 3.6/R speakers


As a CD reference I used Holly Cole's "Don't Smoke in Bed", with the first track "I Can See Clearly Now"

As a 24/96 DAD reference, I used Livingston Taylor's "Ink" with the first track "Isn't She Lovely".

On Holly Cole's CD, her voice should have considerable air, and seem to float in space in front of the speakers. The instruments should be placed back, on either side of the performer. There should be a palpable "feel" to the voice and instruments. This is what I get from the Bel Canto.

On the Denon 2910 the sound is almost tonally identical. There isn't any problem with sibilance or harshness. The sound is clear and not muddy. However, there is a slight thinness to the sound. It doesn't have the same body or weight. The voice and instruments seemed to be on a paper-thin soundstage. This took much of the enjoyment out of the music. It was definitely listenable, and someone walking around the room probably wouldn't notice a huge difference. But, for critical listening, this isn't a reference player, and can't compete with the best DACs out there for CD output.

The 24/96 DAD disk had all the improvements of the higher resolution on both the DAC and the Denon. However, the exact same feelings were noted about the sound. The Denon would not satisfy me as a stand-alone player.

I just came back from Steve's TV, and they let me do a 3910 vs. 2910 comparison with my same disks. The 3910 is definitely an improvement. I noticed a difference in soundstage. There was slightly more weight to the sound on the 3910 as well. However, we were using poor cabling, and going through a Denon 3805 receiver, so there is no way to tell if the 3910 is up to the job of the Bel Canto. I will borrow the 3910 for a night one day and let you know the showdown. I may also have some SACD disks by then to check the 2910 vs. 3910 on that.

I'm greatly enjoying the player for video, though! If anyone else is critical about audio, and has anything to add, please post.

Neil

Originally posted by coreymd

audioNeil,
In my experience, the one Superbit title I've seen, Bram Stoker's Dracula, was very grainy on my old RP-56 using component (never watched it on my Samsung 931). I've never tried another Superbit title as a result, so I don't know if it was an isolated event. Are you using DVI or component? I haven't noticed any more film grain than before I got the 2910 (Star Wars Ep IV comes to mind), but I can look at Dracula again this weekend. Have you tried changing the video modes (from auto to film... etc.)?

-Corey

I've watched 3 superbit titles now, and while they are clear, this is at the expense of extra video noise. I watched "Garfield" last night with my kids. While the picture was softer than a superbit title, there was barely any hint of grain. I guess it's all in how it's transferred.

I'm very happy with the video from this player. I suspect that some round-off errors in the MPEG decoding is giving us these colored splotches. However, as long as the filters prevent us from seeing it as a macroblocking issue, I'm okay with that. I've seen macroblocking on my cheap Panasonic RP56, and it's not pretty. I've maybe seen 2 seens with splotches so far in the blacks, and it hasn't been bad.

Neil

Originally posted by audioNeil
I've watched 3 superbit titles now, and while they are clear, this is at the expense of extra video noise. I watched "Garfield" last night with my kids. While the picture was softer than a superbit title, there was barely any hint of grain. I guess it's all in how it's transferred.

Neil

Yeah, some of the superbit transfers show the film grain quite a bit. But The Fifth Element is stellar and one of my favorite references.

Ok,

Today I watched Finding Nemo in its entirety, on my DLP set. Using my DVD-1910.

The *ONLY* scene were I noticed macroblocking was the one where the goggles fall off the speeding boat into the water, and they submerge. It's the scene right after Nemo is picked up by the human and he gets in the boat and speeds off, only to have his goggles fall off the edge and into the water.

As they submerge, you see the ocean deeper and deeper...and the various shades of dark blue. There, I saw macroblocking. But it wasn't THAT bad.

I couldn't find it anywhere else. Nor could I see ANY green tint/push.

WTF? How can this be, if everyone else sees otherwise. :(

Well, due to Halloween and all, we had to watch Nightmare Before Christmas. This movie is pretty dark, and some macroblocking was present on the 2910 in some of the darker areas. Still, it was barely noticable; I had to actually LOOK for it; my wife didn't see it at all until I showed her where to look.

ndahbar,

"Finding Nemo" (and probably anything from Pixar for that matter), are not the best choices when trying to see macroblocking effects or the green tinted blacks on the 1910. Try any of these DVD's:

"Van Helsing"
"Day After Tommorow"
"Underworld"

Originally posted by ndahbar
Ok,

Today I watched Finding Nemo in its entirety, on my DLP set. Using my DVD-1910.

The *ONLY* scene were I noticed macroblocking was the one where the goggles fall off the speeding boat into the water, and they submerge. It's the scene right after Nemo is picked up by the human and he gets in the boat and speeds off, only to have his goggles fall off the edge and into the water.

As they submerge, you see the ocean deeper and deeper...and the various shades of dark blue. There, I saw macroblocking. But it wasn't THAT bad.

I couldn't find it anywhere else. Nor could I see ANY green tint/push.

WTF? How can this be, if everyone else sees otherwise. :(

Cartoon/animation movies are not really a good way at all to spot the macroblocking.

All the BM stores I have been in-- Circuit City, or Best Buy, Tweeter, Good Guys , HiFi Buys, they all have cartoon movies on the upscaling dvd players running on the plasmas for demos.

The reason they do this is so the issues of macroblocking or true blacks being passed are not shown AND its very easy to upscale most of the cartoon type movies as there is not as much fine detail in most cases.

When I asked, several employees in some of these BM stores said it was policy or a memo suggesting the material for the reasons above.

I just got Day After Tomorrow, I'll check it out tonight.

Using my new 2910 via HDMI to my Mitsubishi WD-62525 I get severe color banding, noise, and macroblocking on every DVD I play (to include superbit and other "reference" titles). I've used the Avia disc to make adjustments, but I can't get the banding to go away. Going from HDMI Y/Cr/Cb and HDMI RGB has no effect and component looks the same as well.

Since no one else has brought this up yet, I assume there's something peculiar about my setup. Any suggestions?

I had my 50" Samsung DLP ISF'ed (DVI and Component) on Friday and he really dialed it in! Movies look just spectacular. Coupled with the audio improvement in DVD-A over the RP82 (the wife even noticed), and great SACD performance, the 2910 is a keeper here.

krisjon,
I have a 2910 connected via 720 HDMI to a Mits 52525 right now. I've only watched a few movies so far and hadn't noticed anything peculiar like that. Give me a movie title and scene you'd like to compare and I'll see if I can help you out. My 2910 setup is pretty much default right now video wise.

Jeff

Well, I've noticed it with every movie I've tried. Here's a few to look at:

- The Abyss: The opening scene is almost too bad to watch. Just bands of blue and noise inbetween.
- X2 : When they first meet up with Nightcrawler in the church
- Panic Room : First scene when they're showing the empty apartment
- Matrix Revolutions : The backgrounds of the ship in the first scene, also the lights outside the ship
- Star Wars III: Attack of the Clones : The pan from space into the planet at the beginning (heck even the THX demo before that), also watch the reflective ship
- The Fifth Element: Initial space scenes and inside the pyramids

It's so noticable, you just have to put in any disc and wait for a scene with a gradual light/dark or color change and you'll see it. It almost looks like a computer trying to display the image without enough colors (ie 8 bit instead of 32 bit). I've checked and double checked my settings even going to defaults both on the 2910 and the 62525 and no dice. I've tried both black levels (0 and 7.5) on the player and the extreme ends of bightness, sharpness, and contrast.

This is so bad, I know if anyone else on this forum saw it, they'd be screaming bloody murder. :mad: And for the record I'm using the 6ft "High End" HDMI cable from Ram.

Thanks for the help.

krisjon,

I don't know if what you see is "chroma spread issue on (PAL and) HDMI." If it's so, Denon can send you a fix (updated firmware CD) if you contact them. The affected units are with serial number xxxxxx2599 and lower (black); and xxxxxx0399 and lower (silver).

Alternatively, try another 2910 if you can; and see for the same problem.

Thanks, my serial number is xxxx01776, so hopefully a new firmware will fix it. I guess I'll try the region free version.

Thanks again, this really wasn't what I was expecting from a $600 player ;)

I'll try the region free version.

Is that the most recent version?

After Denon's firmware update, the new firmware becomes ESS-6720-4, and the Make Day becomes 831.

To know firmware version:

1. Turn off the small power button from the front panel.

2. Hold down PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons - both simultaneously.

3. Turn the power back on using that small power button on the front panel. Continue holding buttons as in 2 above for three/four seconds.

4. After "LOADING...." shows on the display, press from your remote 3, 2, 6, 5 buttons one by one in that order; and then press MENU button from the remote. The display should show you the firmware version. (There's some additional info displayed everytime you press MENU button, like make day, etc.)

After updating with the region free firmware, my version is:

ESS 6720-4, Make day 831, DRV 030825, System 6768-2, DSP 6770

Sadly, after updating with this firmware, I still have banding/noise/macroblocking all over the place so I guess it's a hardware problem. Looks like this one is going back...

Originally posted by krisjon
Sadly, after updating with this firmware, I still have banding/noise/macroblocking all over the place so I guess it's a hardware problem. Looks like this one is going back...

This very well may be a hardware issue. However, I have also seen color banding on this player, in some of the spots you mentioned. However, it was not too objectionable, very short duration, and probably has something to do with the original transfer. Yes, it does look like a too-small palette. This can be because of bit loss/round-off in the MPEG decoder or in the Faroudja chipset, or in the original data itself.

However, none of us are screaming like you are, so you may have a problem player.

Originally posted by wildpanda86
We tried a number of different scenes from different movies comparing component video cables @480P vs HDMI @720P on our Mitsu DLP 52725. First of all, there seems to be no difference in sharpness or resolution between the two. I guess this is because the Mitsu will upconvert it to 720P regardless of what the input is.

The HDMI on the other hand seems to magnifiy any noise/ or problems with the video. For instance in all the dark scenes for Star Wars, Day after tomorrow, and Pirates of the Caribean it seems to have a weird green haze. In Star Wars, A new hope, when the droids where captured and placed with all the other droids to be sold, the color blackness was completely uneven and there was some green artifacts. If you switch it to 480P via HDMI, this diminishes, and at 1080i these all get worse. Via Component on the other hand, there does not seem to be any problems & the pictures are crisp and clear.

Does anyone else with a Mitsu DLP have similar experience with their Denon?

The store near us is willing to give us a floor model Denon DVD2900 (equivalent to current 3910)... for less, should we take them up on their offer? or stick with the 2910 (equivalent to old 2200) and use the components.

Once setup correctly, the picture and sound on the Denon is simply amazing.

I just traded in my 2900 for a 2910 (within the 30 day trial period) due to problems with "less than perfect" DVD's. I watched "Kill Bill" almost all the way to the end on the 2900 (which has a better pq than the 2910) and it started pixelating, stuttering, freezing, etc. I then put the DVD into my computer, and it played thru. The disc also played thru these same scenes on the 2910. Less pq but you get to see the whole movie.

Just finished watching Day After Tomorrow on my 1910.

Uhm...where exactly am I supposed to notice macroblocking? I didn't see any, not one bit.

Also, I wasn't sure if things looked greenish overall, but to answer that, here's a question: If i was able to see pure yellow in the movie, even in just 1 scene, can that simply mean that it wasn't showing green tint/push? Cuz I did see a few objects as purely yellow.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Well, due to Halloween and all, we had to watch Nightmare Before Christmas. This movie is pretty dark, and some macroblocking was present on the 2910 in some of the darker areas. Still, it was barely noticable; I had to actually LOOK for it; my wife didn't see it at all until I showed her where to look.

We watched this Sunday night as well, but I didn't notice any macroblocking at all (I was looking, too). I only noticed a little color banding in the scene of Jack walking into the woods in front of the full moon (the shades of yellow in the moon did not transition smoothly). Perhaps my gamma is too low to see the mb you saw in dark areas? The film grain was also more evident, compared to previous viewings on other players. But I can't be sure if that's due to the 2910 or just the fact that I'm noticing it more because I'm looking for it.

Of course, to put it back into perspective, none of the above are really complaints. The presentation (audio and video) still surpass any other player I've owned.

-Corey

Hi everyone any help would be most welcomed. I have a HT 1000 and a Denon 2910. I have three problems.

1 That HDCP crap I think, every now and then the picture just goes to snow and you have to restart the DVD.

2 Sparkles in the black parts of the picture.

3 A little green tint to some parts of the picture.

Other than that the picture is the best I have ever had.
This id what I think is wrong. I now have a $20.00 PC cables 25' DVI cable.
I think that could be the problem.
I have on order a 400 series monster 20' $199.00 DVI cable.
Will this help with the above problems.

Thanks,
Grady

Originally posted by juketrader
Hi everyone any help would be most welcomed. I have a HT 1000 and a Denon 2910. I have three problems.

1 That HDCP crap I think, every now and then the picture just goes to snow and you have to restart the DVD.

2 Sparkles in the black parts of the picture.

3 A little green tint to some parts of the picture.

Other than that the picture is the best I have ever had.
This id what I think is wrong. I now have a $20.00 PC cables 25' DVI cable.
I think that could be the problem.
I have on order a 400 series monster 20' $199.00 DVI cable.
Will this help with the above problems.

Thanks,
Grady

I have had ZERO problems with the 2910 on my HT1000. Do you know what software/formware version is currently installed on your HT1000?

You can follow this link to some HT1000 settings I have been trying with the 2910.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=459807&goto=newpost

New observation: I watched Fahrenheit 9/11 (and FahrenHYPE 9/11) and, by accident, was able to check out the 2910's progressive output modes (Video Setup : Progressive Mode : Auto1,Auto2,Video1,Video2,Video3).

I started out watching the documentary on "Auto1" mode and very quickly realized that something was not up to snuff. Since most of the footage in the movie is from video-based sources rather than film, the picture using "Auto1" was being processed incorrectly by the 2910. The result was something you'd expect to see when two interlaced frames are displayed together when there is motion in the scene: jagged edges with an almost CRT scan line look.

But after switching the mode to "Video1", the picture returned to a very clear and smooth film-like quality. So, of course, I also tried "Video2" and "Video3", but I couldn't see any difference from "Video1". Not sure that I should have based on the source material - mostly talking heads and static shots.

As far as I know, the 2910 cannot auto-detect the source type. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm just lucky I watched a video-based source DVD while the player is still new. In a couple of months I would likely have forgotten about the video mode option.

-Corey

I wil read this thread when I get home, I'm at work...but I'm having some slight problems with the Denon 2910 and DVI to dVI to HDMI on my Toshiba DLP.....some ghosting in video essentials and PQ isn't as great as I expected it should have been (at least as good as RP82, but it's not).

-ELmO

Originally posted by elmalloc
I wil read this thread when I get home, I'm at work...but I'm having some slight problems with the Denon 2910 and DVI to dVI to HDMI on my Toshiba DLP.....some ghosting in video essentials and PQ isn't as great as I expected it should have been (at least as good as RP82, but it's not).

-ELmO

ELmO, I have the RP82 and there is a definite difference between it and the 2910 via DVI - DVI 720p. Not a night and day difference but noticeable none the less. Better, more vivid colors and detail. And that was before I had my Sammy DLP ISF'ed

Originally posted by juketrader
Hi everyone any help would be most welcomed. I have a HT 1000 and a Denon 2910. I have three problems.

1 That HDCP crap I think, every now and then the picture just goes to snow and you have to restart the DVD.

2 Sparkles in the black parts of the picture.

3 A little green tint to some parts of the picture.

Other than that the picture is the best I have ever had.

I've watched by 2910 rather compulsively since I bought it last week, and have carefully watched the following DVDs all the way through:

Dead Like Me, Season 1, episodes 7 through 12.
Dawn of the Dead, Unrated Director's Cut
Plan 9 From Outer Space (not exactly videophile grade material, but I thought I'd include it)
Ed Wood
Ghosts of the Abyss (from an IMAX master)
Video test material from "Digital Video Essentials" DVD.

I have seen no macroblocking, no green tint issues, and no unexpected pixelation. My 2910 is hooked up via DVI-D to a Toshiba 34HDX82 direct view CRT HDTV, upconverting to 1080i. Blacks are solid. Color calibration with the DVE disc was almost unnecessary with the DVI connection (I reduced contrast a tiny bit). (FYI, I've had great luck calibrating my set over the previous component inputs as well.)

If I have a complaint, it's a common one with a high-end DVD player: limitations in the source material are much more obvious to me. I've previously had a Denon 910 and a Sony DVP-7000S hooked up to this TV.

This id what I think is wrong. I now have a $20.00 PC cables 25' DVI cable.
I think that could be the problem.
I have on order a 400 series monster 20' $199.00 DVI cable.
Will this help with the above problems.

Probably. But you should know that I got a 2 m AudioQuest CinemaQuest DV-1 cable from Magnolia Audio Video for $100 when I bought my player. I don't know if they were discounting it because I bought a player, but the cable usually goes for a lot more than that. Maybe they'll give you the same price. It's a terrific cable, and I cannot say enough about the video quality.

Thanks,
Grady

By the way, if you have a pre-amp that can take 6 channel analog audio from the 2910, use it. I did a comparison between the optical, the coax digital, and the 6-channel sound output from the 2910 with my Outlaw Audio 950 pre-amp (which is pretty damned good). The 6-channel output is freaking AWESOME. The 2910's DACs produce a rich, warm, vibrant, wholesome sound that is far superior to the digital conversion in the Outlaw, and the Outlaw is really, really good.

(I have Vandersteen 2ce main speakers, a Vandersteen VCC-1 center channel, a Sunfire True Subwoofer and measly Cambridge Soundworks dipole surrounds.)

Good luck!

Your set is smaller though, I think it's harder to find faults in smaller sets....I'm having some small issues with my Toshiba 46" DLP, it's not a stellar picture. I'm wondering if I should try component inputs...I don't think I get any upconversion then though.

How responsive (or fast) is this functional wise in the navigation menu or fastforward, search, etc...?

I had a 2900 before and everything was very quick, so I couldn't go back to the less expensive players (below the $300 range?).

Quick but I wouldn't say "VERY" quick, there's stlil a load time. If I try to cut to a scene from a DVD menu it's about 1 second. Hitting "next" though once youre within a scene, is very quick.

It's the quickest I've had, but I wouldn't say it's immediate.

-eLmO

Okay, in my seemingly never ending quest to find a great DVD player, I returned the 1910 and 2900 last night and picked up the 2910. I hooked it up to my Hitachi 51s700 via DVI and used AVIA to calibrate. Haven't had much chance to play with it, but here's the initial impression:

vdmai - having just compared responsiveness to the 2900, I would say that the 2910 is not nearly as responsive or authoratative (when you press the button, you get what you want), but I feel it is certainly very user friendly and good enough not to be an issue. I also like the remote for the 2910 better than the remote for the 2900.

After doing some work on calibrating the 2910, I'm disappointed to find some of the same problems I found on the 1910 (but not at all on the 2900). Macroblocking still showed up quite a bit at 1080i (though not nearly as bad as on the 1910), less at 720p, and minimally at 480p. Also, I saw the same horizontal jitter at 1080i that I saw on the 1910, and again it disappeared at 720p and 480p. So it can go away, but the PQ is noticeably worse at 480p, so I really wanted to use this player at 1080i! Aaarrghh!

The color also really seems to be off. I tried to calibrate using the Blue Bars test on AVIA, but I could never quite get it right. I ended up having to crank the color saturation to max (+6) on the DVD player, crank the color up to 65% on the TV, and then pull the hue well over into the green to get the blue bars even close to looking right (and even then, it didn't completely align the blue bars). What's interesting is that none of this was necessary on the 2900 - color calibration for it was straight down the middle (50% on everything) and it came out with a perfect blend on the blue bars.

Originally posted by JustJeff

By the way, if you have a pre-amp that can take 6 channel analog audio from the 2910, use it. I did a comparison between the optical, the coax digital, and the 6-channel sound output from the 2910 with my Outlaw Audio 950 pre-amp (which is pretty damned good). The 6-channel output is freaking AWESOME. The 2910's DACs produce a rich, warm, vibrant, wholesome sound that is far superior to the digital conversion in the Outlaw, and the Outlaw is really, really good.



Jeff,
I'm glad to hear an affirmation of what I heard with my Yamaha receiver. Of course, I'm assuming you're referring to using the 2910's 6CH analog audio outs for regular movie material and not just for audio only discs? If that's the case, then I agree - it's definitely worth a try to see how the 2910's DACs stack up to your receiver's DACs on movie soundtrack material. And as an added bonus you'd only need to select one input on the receiver for both movie discs and audio discs...

-Corey

I'm still not happy with my 2910 PQ at all. Maybe I will rip my RP82 from downstairs temporarily and try component into my Toshiba DLP.

There seems to be too much EE going on in every DVD after 720p upconversoin from the denon...there also seems to be some slight macro blocking and way too much film grain to be appreciated on most DVDs, this is after calibrating with video essentials as well.

I STILL wonder if hte Toshiba HDMI input is not at fault. Nobody seems to have a Toshiba DLP and has used hte hDMI input succesfully from what I've read thus far.

I seem to have ghosting issues with video essentials (contrast portion) with the denon. I seemto think it's the Toshiba HDMI input and not the denon. Text (frmo dvd menus) is blurry via HDMI upconversoin to 720p. Maybe it's liek a bitmap being converted around (so it looks slightly blurry), but I didn't think I was paying for this when I bought a DLP.

-ELmo

I think I remember reading a post about this question but could not find it.

I just got my Denon 2910 everything seems to be great but I can not get the 1080i to display on my projector (sharp DT200) the screen jumps and shows 520p I think??? Anyway can anyone offer any help
Thanks

The Toshiba HDMI input is really F'd up, I'm making a new post. Toshiba will hear about this.

clrv>> There's definitely something wrong with the 1080i output of the 2910 (and the 1910 and the 3910).
I have a DVHS-player which outputs true, native 1080i from HDTV-material via component and my pj (Hitachi PJ-TX100) has no problem at all displaying this.
Also, I've run 1080i via DVI from my computer and that also works just fine.

However, when playing 1080i from the 2910, the PJ reports 540p and the image jumps up and down like crazy. Less sharp than standar progressive also.

DENON absolutely needs to fix 1080i.

720p on the other hand looks too good to be true on my pj. :D :)

Originally posted by arioch
clrv>> There's definitely something wrong with the 1080i output of the 2910 (and the 1910 and the 3910).
I have a DVHS-player which outputs true, native 1080i from HDTV-material via component and my pj (Hitachi PJ-TX100) has no problem at all displaying this.
Also, I've run 1080i via DVI from my computer and that also works just fine.

However, when playing 1080i from the 2910, the PJ reports 540p and the image jumps up and down like crazy. Less sharp than standar progressive also.

DENON absolutely needs to fix 1080i.

720p on the other hand looks too good to be true on my pj. :D :)

Maybe it's a quality-control problem rather than a design problem. 1080i output over DVI-D to my Toshiba 34HDX82 is rock-solid.

I will call Denon and see what they think. I will post the reply

Anyone have a Panny 507UY and a Denon 2910 dvd player hooked up through DVI? Is so please let me know. I am trying to find out the best settings for both the plasma and dvd player. I have been cycling through the different dvi settings 720p and 1080i and cant find the best setting. I get a lot of micrblocking and the colors don't seem as deep. I received the firmware upgrade from Denon and have updated. I almost think my svideo monster cable connection is as good if not better. It also allows to fill the screen in auto mode. With the dvi there is no way to remove the bars at the top and bottom. Does it matter that I have both svideo and dvi hooked up to the plasma? Is it sending 2 signals which is reducing my bandwidth? Any suggestions on optimal performance between these 2 devices are appreciated.

This thread (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2439478&highlight=queen#post2439478) suggests a possible skipping problem with DVD-A disc "Queen: Night at the Opera." The original poster tried two discs and it happened on both the discs.

I tried but didn't have any problem. Can anyone with Queen DVD-A check it out on 2910? Thank you.

Originally posted by djironic
Okay, in my seemingly never ending quest to find a great DVD player, I returned the 1910 and 2900 last night and picked up the 2910. I hooked it up to my Hitachi 51s700 via DVI and used AVIA to calibrate. Haven't had much chance to play with it, but here's the initial impression:

vdmai - having just compared responsiveness to the 2900, I would say that the 2910 is not nearly as responsive or authoratative (when you press the button, you get what you want), but I feel it is certainly very user friendly and good enough not to be an issue. I also like the remote for the 2910 better than the remote for the 2900.

After doing some work on calibrating the 2910, I'm disappointed to find some of the same problems I found on the 1910 (but not at all on the 2900). Macroblocking still showed up quite a bit at 1080i (though not nearly as bad as on the 1910), less at 720p, and minimally at 480p. Also, I saw the same horizontal jitter at 1080i that I saw on the 1910, and again it disappeared at 720p and 480p. So it can go away, but the PQ is noticeably worse at 480p, so I really wanted to use this player at 1080i! Aaarrghh!

The color also really seems to be off. I tried to calibrate using the Blue Bars test on AVIA, but I could never quite get it right. I ended up having to crank the color saturation to max (+6) on the DVD player, crank the color up to 65% on the TV, and then pull the hue well over into the green to get the blue bars even close to looking right (and even then, it didn't completely align the blue bars). What's interesting is that none of this was necessary on the 2900 - color calibration for it was straight down the middle (50% on everything) and it came out with a perfect blend on the blue bars.

Hello djironic,

Let me start by saying I am very excited to see another fellow 51s700/2910 user. I pre-ordered my 2910 almost 3 months ago and finally received it last week.

I'm curious about what you're seeing with regard to horizontal jitter, Macroblocking and color saturation. I haven't really noticed any of these things - though admittedly I haven't logged a lot viewing time either. Could you give me a few concrete examples (i.e. specific movies and scene) that, in you opinion, were the most egregious? I'm concerned and want to see if I can reproduce your findings as well. I'd hate to have to by yet another DVD player... :rolleyes:

Thanks.

jc3

Still trying to calibrate using AVIA, but am I the only one that PQ was better out of the box using component vs DVI. I can't seem to get the color correct on DVI but component looks great. I am using a Ram cable 23ft. Could it be my cable, the length? I have to be doing something wrong.
HELP PLEASE

I have played with my 2910 for a couple of days now and I'm happy with the picture quality it provides. The DVI looked more pixilated at first and I was not sure if I liked it, but with more time and tweaking the setup, I have a picture that looks very nice. I believe the DVI 720p picture has more detail and it less soft then either the 480p component from the 2910 or the 2200, both of which I could have easily live with also. It took some time to get use to the DVD up-converted picture because it's texture is different, but after enough time you start noticing things being sharper and more detailed with the DVI 720p picture. The change from a daylight scene to a night time scene is incredible! Daylight scenes look more realistic and you get a real sense that the sun is shining down. So far I have seen no MB and very little to no VB with the 2910 and the AE500 using DVI. So as of now I'm planning on keeping it!

Adding the DVI does complicate my setup now as you have to change inputs on the projector now to switch between HDTV and DVD. Also, because the AE500 locks into 16:9 mode when 720p is inputted, watching non-enhance for 16:9 DVD's require either changing a projector setting in the option menu or switching to the component outputs so you can zoom the picture to fill the screen, either way True Lies looked very impressive. I also might try a DVI switcher and run HDTV thru DVI also. After more evaluation, the color is correct when using the blue filter so now I'm starting to trust DVI a little more.

The audio side sounds as good as the 2200 from what I can tell but to use the player to decode HDCD requires you to switch to an analog connection to the receiver. More button pushing.

Hi bucky63,

I am not familiar with Blue filter, can you tell me which grade n any particular brand I should look for. Also, I do have the same combo as you do, n just ordered a 12M Monster DVI400 to connect in between, n curious what DVI cable are you using ? Thanks.

The blue filter I'm referning to is the filter used in check Color and Hue when using AVIA. Sorry for the confusion...

The DVI cable is a 30' RAM (not the Dual Link? version). My screen is a 80" Bright 1.4 Carada.

Projector settings are...

Natural Picture mode
Contrast and Brightness calibrated with AVIA
Sharpness set to 0
Color Temp set to 0
Low and High Gamma set to -1

2910 settings are...

DVI 720p output
Enhanced DVI black level
Set - Setup Level set to 0
Auto 1

What don't you like in the picture quality your getting with your AE500 and the 2910?

Hi bucky63,

Thanks for your quick reply as well as your settings. When you said Contrast n Brightness on AE500 is AVIA calibrated, does it mean their setting is at '0' too.

I feel my picture not sharp n the color a little bit fade-away. However, when I increased the sharpness on the projector, it induced some picture noise. I left the 2910 at default n AE500 in Normal mode.

Since I am only using a cheap Dual-link computer DVI-D cable now n waiting for the Monster DVI400(single-link) to arrive, hope it will make a difference too.

The blue filter I'm referning to is the filter used in check Color and Hue when using AVIA

What's AVIA?

Thanks, Tony

Originally posted by s236
What's AVIA?

Thanks, Tony

Here's a link to AVIA and DVE. They are used to calibrate your DVD and TV.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/630551982X/103-2095289-2915067?v=glance

http://www.videoessentials.com/index.php

Well, I received a 2910 yesterday. I haven't had much time with it yet, but my first impression is that navigation is S...L...O...W (almost painfully) compared to my 6 year old, non-progressive Sony 530. I was looking forward to it being faster, if anything. It doesn't seem to want to reverse chapter skip, either. This is something I use all the time when calibrating with Avia, and it's getting quite annoying to have to go through several menus each time I want to go back a pattern. Are other people having problems with this stuff? I'm also pretty sure I'm seeing the macroblocking bug on the opening scenes of "Monsters, Inc." on my Mits 48413. :eek:

Originally posted by jazzcat
Here's a link to AVIA and DVE. They are used to calibrate your DVD and TV.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/630551982X/103-2095289-2915067?v=glance

http://www.videoessentials.com/index.php

On amazon.ca the DVE disk is MUCH cheaper. Is it as good as AVIA? Do I only need to get one of these disks, and if so, which one is best?

Thanks,
Neil

I have the AVIA so I don't know about the DVE, but YES it is worth every penny to purchase one of these disk. Some one said in a post awhile back"I don't understand why people will spend $100s on cables and won't spend $35 on disk" I agree 100%

Originally posted by ac388
Hi bucky63,

Thanks for your quick reply as well as your settings. When you said Contrast n Brightness on AE500 is AVIA calibrated, does it mean their setting is at '0' too.

I feel my picture not sharp n the color a little bit fade-away. However, when I increased the sharpness on the projector, it induced some picture noise. I left the 2910 at default n AE500 in Normal mode.

Since I am only using a cheap Dual-link computer DVI-D cable now n waiting for the Monster DVI400(single-link) to arrive, hope it will make a difference too.

Hello ac388,

What I mean by calibrated with AVIA is that that I set my projector's Brightness and Contrast to values determined while preforming the using the AVIA calibration tests. I believe the Contrast ended up at +5 and the Brightness at -7. You need to do you own test to determine those values for you own setup. I left the 2910's Contrast and Brightness values set at 0.

I have a hard time believing your cable is at fault, but maybe...

I did have a washed out picture if I did not go into the 2910's Picture Adjust menu and to to the Set menu and change the default 7.5 value to 0. You will have to leave the Picture Adjust on M1 to use that new value. If you leave the Picture Adjust on STD you will go back to the 2910's default Picture Adjust values. Can be a little confusing...

With this setup, my black levels are very good (for this projector) and I have a picture that POPS off the screen. It is very close to being HD like. You can still tell it is a DVD in distance pictures but it still is very impressive.

Is there any consensus yet on whether the PQ is better with HDMI output using the RGB or the YCrCb (or whatever) option? E.g., to a Samsung hlp xx63 set. I don't trust my eyeballs!

Originally posted by JeronimoColon
Hello djironic,

Let me start by saying I am very excited to see another fellow 51s700/2910 user. I pre-ordered my 2910 almost 3 months ago and finally received it last week.

I'm curious about what you're seeing with regard to horizontal jitter, Macroblocking and color saturation. I haven't really noticed any of these things - though admittedly I haven't logged a lot viewing time either. Could you give me a few concrete examples (i.e. specific movies and scene) that, in you opinion, were the most egregious? I'm concerned and want to see if I can reproduce your findings as well. I'd hate to have to by yet another DVD player... :rolleyes:

Thanks.

jc3

I hear ya' - I've done nothing but look at DVD players for a month now. Can't wait to settle down...

As far as seeing horizontal jitter, I've mostly seen it on text (any menu usually shows it - Star Wars comes to mind). If you have AVIA, you can see it on the contrast test pattern (needle and steps or whatever it's called) where there is a definite line between the black top and the white bottom - that border just bounces up and down. The static Zone Plate pattern also shows it. Any static horizontal lines you can find may show it, though. Just last night I saw it in a movie - Hitori Hanso's (sp?)attic in Kill Bill 1. There is a shot with no one in frame and no motion, just the attic set. I noticed pixel movement on the wall and sure enough, when I switched to 720p, the movement went away.

Sleepy Hollow has a ridiculous amount of macroblocking - black macroblocking around the opening titles and colored macroblocking (mostly light red) on a lot of the neutral colors (which are predominant in this movie). You can almost pick any scene and see some macroblocking. Another movie that features neutral colors is Pirates of the Caribbean - lots of grey fog and grey walls will highlight the "pink blotchiness", as I've heard others refer to it, and a little black macroblocking in the really dark scenes. One other scene comes to mind - The Battle of Carthage scene in Gladiator, when the gladiators are under the arena preparing to enter the ring - lots of macroblocking on the tan/grey backgrounds. Open sequence of Star Wars, too, around the stars after the initial scrolling text. Macroblocking is most pronounced in the 1080i mode.

Color saturation problems showed up for me during calibration when I was using the blue bars test on AVIA - had to crank up the saturation and just couldn't quite get it looking right. I know that it's player specific 'cause I didn't have any color issues with the 2900, which still has the best color I've seen.

If you get things set up right, though (something I'm still working on), the 2910 certainly has a good picture. Quite similar to the 1910, actually, but with less digital noise and macroblocking. Currently I'm playing with all combinations of resolution and settings to find which seems to work best. Will keep you posted...

HI bucky63,

You are the most helpful guy that I know in this forum. I will definitely try your setting when my new cable came in, since I just returned that computer cable to the shop I borrowed. Of course, I will use my DVE(I don't have AVIA) to calibrate, but your figure will be a good starting point.

It is also a very good point to leave the Picture Adjust on M1 or M2, since I keep forgetting n have it on STD at all time. Also, did you play around with that noise reduction 'DNR' on 2910 at all ?



Originally posted by bucky63
Hello ac388,

What I mean by calibrated with AVIA is that that I set my projector's Brightness and Contrast to values determined while preforming the using the AVIA calibration tests. I believe the Contrast ended up at +5 and the Brightness at -7. You need to do you own test to determine those values for you own setup. I left the 2910's Contrast and Brightness values set at 0.

I have a hard time believing your cable is at fault, but maybe...

I did have a washed out picture if I did not go into the 2910's Picture Adjust menu and to to the Set menu and change the default 7.5 value to 0. You will have to leave the Picture Adjust on M1 to use that new value. If you leave the Picture Adjust on STD you will go back to the 2910's default Picture Adjust values. Can be a little confusing...

With this setup, my black levels are very good (for this projector) and I have a picture that POPS off the screen. It is very close to being HD like. You can still tell it is a DVD in distance pictures but it still is very impressive. :)

Originally posted by djironic
I hear ya' - I've done nothing but look at DVD players for a month now. Can't wait to settle down...

As far as seeing horizontal jitter, I've mostly seen it on text (any menu usually shows it - Star Wars comes to mind). If you have AVIA, you can see it on the contrast test pattern (needle and steps or whatever it's called) where there is a definite line between the black top and the white bottom - that border just bounces up and down. The static Zone Plate pattern also shows it. Any static horizontal lines you can find may show it, though. Just last night I saw it in a movie - Hitori Hanso's (sp?)attic in Kill Bill 1. There is a shot with no one in frame and no motion, just the attic set. I noticed pixel movement on the wall and sure enough, when I switched to 720p, the movement went away.

Sleepy Hollow has a ridiculous amount of macroblocking - black macroblocking around the opening titles and colored macroblocking (mostly light red) on a lot of the neutral colors (which are predominant in this movie). You can almost pick any scene and see some macroblocking. Another movie that features neutral colors is Pirates of the Caribbean - lots of grey fog and grey walls will highlight the "pink blotchiness", as I've heard others refer to it, and a little black macroblocking in the really dark scenes. One other scene comes to mind - The Battle of Carthage scene in Gladiator, when the gladiators are under the arena preparing to enter the ring - lots of macroblocking on the tan/grey backgrounds. Open sequence of Star Wars, too, around the stars after the initial scrolling text. Macroblocking is most pronounced in the 1080i mode.

Color saturation problems showed up for me during calibration when I was using the blue bars test on AVIA - had to crank up the saturation and just couldn't quite get it looking right. I know that it's player specific 'cause I didn't have any color issues with the 2900, which still has the best color I've seen.

If you get things set up right, though (something I'm still working on), the 2910 certainly has a good picture. Quite similar to the 1910, actually, but with less digital noise and macroblocking. Currently I'm playing with all combinations of resolution and settings to find which seems to work best. Will keep you posted...

Thanks for the info!

I have Avia and DVE so I'm going to re-calibrate my TV to my 2910 - it was previously calibrated to my Zenith 318 (very dark player). I'll probably be working on it all weekend, but I'll let you know what I find with regard to the movies you mentioned because I have all the movies you mentioned - save Sleepy Hollow. I'm going to have to do a factory reset first because I had made loads of ISF changes during my last calibration.

So far I have not been that impressed with any DVD player I've tried. I have a D-VHS player and nothing (right now at least) can beat the PQ on these things. I've been comparing X-men2 DVD to X-men2 D-VHS and there's no contest.

jc3

How would one go about using DVE to setup the way they play a video game, or watch tv? Do you just use the same settings or something?

AVIA and DVE are mostly just to allow the user to calibrate the display (TV, RPTV front projector etc.) as close as possible to the NTSC D65 standard without going with a full professional calibration with light, gamma etc. measurements. The objective is to reproduce colors and lighting as close as possible to the way it's recorded, so you don't skew the image with too much red, or too much white etc.

With video games, the color is already unnatural so most people just adjust it so it doesn't look really weird (like evrything's greenish or whatever).

As far as which one is better, DVE or AVIA, if you have neither, start with AVIA since they take you through it step by step. AVIA works great for novice level to intermediate and has pretty much what you need for a decent HT calibration. DVE on the other hand has tons of calibration patterns you can use but doesn't exactly make it easy for novices to use. Excellent for the tweakaholics though.

As for me, I'm using my 2910 with an AE700U and after calibration, colors are great and contrast is definitely ahead of the previous LCD projectors. The AE700U has been tested to have very good color balance out of the box with a Natural setting with color temp -1, but after calibration, I can personally attest to the fact that contrast has been improved tremendously and color balance has also improved while color saturation is even more stunning.

Get the DVE over AVIA. I bought both and the AVIA was 2x more $ then the DVE. The AVIA home theater edition is ok for the real beginer but in the long run the DVE is the better disc. Also the DVE is 16:9 abd the AVIA ia 4:3 (the ver I got from Amazon is). AVIA do hace th 16:9 test paterns so it can be used to cal 16:9 sets, just the video section is 4:3. I had prev versions of VE (both DVD and LD) not DVE and they did a good job with 16:9 format for most setups except screen size (duh!) which is what I used before getting the newer DVE. If I had to buy one I would get DVE, less expensive and much more features. IMHO

I have DVE (and had the older version in the past). I've also borrowed AVIA. I agree that DVE is Superior for tweaking. My only gripe is the damn menu navigation. Bob Kane appears to be steadfast in his conviction of using a nested menu design which was frustrating on the older version and is carried over on the current version. Its unintuitive and a general pain in the *ss.

can anyone tell what scan rates come out of component , 480p, 720p, 1080i? i do not have a DVI input on my Dila-G11U. thanks

The 2910 outputs 480i and 480p over component. Your pretty much stuck with 480p component on all the newer DVD players.

Just got my 2910 and up and running DVI-1080I into a Sony GWIII. Picture outstanding when DVI cable direct into TV. But when I put it Thu my Geffen DVI 2x1 switcher no picture. Anyone have a idea?

Cecchine - I've got my 2910 running into the GWIII also via DVI, sorry I can't help with the Geffen switch.

Did you apply any of umr's tweaks to your set?

The image looks great on this end too. We're very happy with the combo..

Mike

Is that switch HDCP compliant??

Yes it is

No I have not done any tweaks, what Im getting out of the box looks great

Now that I think I've gotten my 2910 set up to acceptable levels (connected to Mitsubishi 48413 via DVI @ 1080i), I attemted some viewing tests this morning. On the Matrix: Reloaded around the 11:30 mark (after Link says "He's doing his Superman thing.") the scene switches to some clouds. There is some very noticable blocking and general splochiness here. There was one white cloud toward the bottom middle of the frame that even looks striped for several frames. It's not as bad at 480p or on my old non-progressive Sony 530 but still somewhat splotchy. Now I know things like fog and clouds are hard for encoding anyway. Am I seeing "the bug" here or just a problem spot on the disc?

I have been reading this thread for 6 months now to get an opinion for a new DvD player, decided to go with the 2910.
I ordered it 2 months ago (silver), finally got on friday 11/5. Hooked up via DVi on my Hitachi ultravision 57s500, after I set it up I played new dvd's that I own, first one played fine, second one midway through started to stutter freeze and lock up. Powered off and play it again next day, now I used the disk that froze up previously and it played fine, second disk again it started the same thing, same thing next day, I called crutchfield and they wil send a replacement.
It seems to do that after a period of time, there is plenty of space around cabinent so heating is not a problem. I have been looking forward to this player and so far I'm extemely dissapointed for the perfomance. This is my first Denon product.

I am thinking about picking this player up soon and I have a question. I have a Mitsubishi 65615 CRT RPTV that has an HDMI input - would this player perform better using that input on an RPTV or over component? I would like to know if anyone has any experience since I will probably have to buy a long HDMI cable when I pick up the player.

Thanks for any response.

After purchasing the 2910 in black, I've been very happy with it's performance. I was so happy with it, I decided to buy another but in Silver to match the specific TV setup and other components. The first silver one I got was dead and would not spin the disc for playback. Everything else was ok as far as I could tell. The blue background screen, remote, opening tray, etc. So I took that one back and received another silver after the special order. The second silver player plays most of the disc that I've thrown in there, but on a couple, it looks like the player is in some sort of Zoom mode that blows up the picture making it oversized, and cuts off some part of the picture toward the bottom right hand side. There is also some white lines on the bottom of the screen about 2 inches tall. They do go across the entire bottom of the screen horizontally. I don't have the zoom feature on. Hook up is by DVI to DVI on the television. All of the settings are correct as far as I know as well. It looks like this one is going back as well. I think I will try a black one this time like the first player since it's still perfect.

cheers,

Originally posted by salrmrcrey
After purchasing the 2910 in black, I've been very happy with it's performance.

cheers,

I had a silver one on order but when I had one of the 1st available 2910 (about over 2 months ago, early August?) on demo i'd decided to keep the "DEMO" unit (brand new in the box) since it was perfect with no real issues. And having the demo unit for a month I've cancelled the silver one a month back and never regretted it, def keeping my black early production one.:cool: