how much of a drop do I need to mount the projector. I got a Da-lite Cosmopolitan Electrol screen (can I mount from the 8 foot ceiling and then adjust)?

From 15', the offset (or drop) is about 11". This is from the lens, so be sure to account for any mounting hardware and the size of the projector. Then manual has the formula for calculating to offset.

Anyone got pics to post? I'd like to see how your screens look.

Does anyone know if the 7800 supports HDCP through the DVI connection? One of the reviews indicated it did but it doesn't say so in the manual.

I have the Hughes STL-HD directv receiver and when connecting to the 7800 through the DVI port it doesn't let me cycle to the DVI Auto mode which is supposed to be right after variable3. I have been wondering why that is the case.

Jeff,

Here is a link to the 7800 spec sheet... it specifically mentions HDCP in the Input Terminals section.

-T

EDIT: forgot the link...
http://www.benq.com/ss_download/spec_sheets/projectors/pe7800_specs.pdf

what would the screen size be if it was 108" wide on a 2.40:1 image?

I am using the zoom feature when it is the cinascope size and it just gets m really excited to see such a lrge and incredible screen!!

Just watched Spidy 2 superbit...and all I can say is ...WOW!!! incredible detail..blacks..and colors!!

Couldnt be happier about a purchase...I am trying for somescreenshots but my camera is acting up.

Brian

quick questin....how can this thread go from 255 posts and 10000 views to noone posting anything??


ah well here is a bump

Brian

I think we are all just busy enjoying the PJ while people in other threads are busy complaining about problems with theirs :D .

Rick

I have been trying to contribute meaningful topics but I think someone else should as well.

Thanks T-Bone. Weird that it isn't mentioned in the manual... but this makes me feel a little more at ease. Wonder why the HTL-HD (had the model wrong before... oops) isn't providing the DVI display format mode? Don't get me wrong, it displays HD using the DVI cable it just doesn't provide me with the selection of the DVI display format mode.

From the HTL-HD manual...

In DVI mode, the output display format is automatically adapted based on the preferred resolution format of the DVI-HDTV monitor. The format may be converted from the original broadcast format.

Note : The DVI mode is only available when a DVI-HDTV compatible monitor is connected to the receiver.

I got 7800 about a month ago and enjoying it ever since although it is sitting in our family room projecting on a white walll (HT is under construction).

A few questions: 7800 has DVI-I, but I need to buy DVI-D cable, if I will feed it some HD TV stuff and DVDs only, right? Also, will HDMI be a future connection type of HD content DVD players? Where did you buy your cable (I know bluejeans)?

Thanks.

I bought a 30' cable from Jason here at AVS, works well so far.

Greetings,

I have a BenQ 8700+ and I have a long distance which is a real problem for most DVI cables. I am now using a 12 meter Ultralink DVI-PRO cable, and its working beautifully, with HD res signals as well as lower bandwidth DVD. I also spoke with the folks at ultralink, and they say their cables are good at full 1080 up to 20 meters. I had problems in the past on HD with two other brands of cables
I bought it at a site called projectorsolution.com (is it ok to say that?)
As to HDMI, my understanding is that HDMI is something of a superset of DVI and you can use HDMI cables with adapters for DVI, or the other way around (assuming you don't need the audio info that HDMI can carry).

i just bought a noname(i think) 25' dvi-d cable do you think this will cause a problem??


speedy-sorry didnt mean to anger you...just I love reading about this projo so much ..even more now that I own one!!


Bri

The nice thing about Digital is either it works perfectly or its a disaster. If your 25 footer does a clean job on a 1080 signal you are fine. However it can work great on DVD or even 720p and but be a disaster at the higher bandwidth. One of the previous cables I used was perfect on DVD, but on 1080 from my cable box, I had red noise almost everywhere, so it was immediately apparent on any area of the screen that wasn't bright. Just remember to check out hi-def right away, and not just DVD. GL!

I am watching CSI with HD OTA recevier, LG 3510a. It is unbelievable. The PQ is excellent and watching CSI on 110" (although it is white wall) is priceless. I got a question: not all HD broadcastings are the same, right? PBS HD is all great, but CBS, ABC and NBC are all different (all inferior to PBS) although CSI is goooood.

Well, even commercials look way better. Thanks for you guys for information on this excellent PJ.

Originally posted by Brian Fineberg

speedy-sorry didnt mean to anger you...just I love reading about this projo so much ..even more now that I own one!!


Not at all..just want to see some screenshots of everyone's image...

HDMI is just begining to roll out on new products expect itto be the standard over the many faces of DVI soon

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
Not at all..just want to see some screenshots of everyone's image...
I tried taking some screen shots last weekend, but the pics really look worse than the image. Unfortunately, I can't pause hd images, so it's virtually impossible to get a nice shot of HD.

How about from DVD sources?

That worked, but when i put the pic on my pc it looked significantly worse than the actual screen. And you know how people jump to conclusions on an uploaded screen shot pic.

Does anyone feel that the dvd image is a bit fuzzy or soft on the 7800? Versus say another PJ you've seen or have.

SpeedyHTPC
Funny you should say that, I just plugged my 7800 in for the first time and thought that the pic was fuzzy/soft. I thought i may have the pj a bit out of focus.
Another problem I'm having, which is major, is the noise coming out of the pj. it sounds like an old movie projector. lots of loud clicking going on. i think it's the fan unit. anyone else report any fan noise issues?

how do I edit my pic for a screenshot to fit into the window?? it is too big...my picture waws taken at 3.2 MP I would like to post them but dont know how

idog1969

I recall someone posting about similiar noise and called BenQ who swapped the PJ out. My PJ is silent..almost with the fan that is.

About the fuzzyness it seems to be the way it is. But I am able to dial it down with a good calibration and sharpess set to about 8. Filter on.

I have finally dialed down all the brightness of the PJ and enjoy a phenomenal black level picture without sacrificing background details AND without the brightness overpowering the image. DVE also shows the gray bars on the sides of the contrast plume. Secret is on the YrBr contrast and brightness adjustment. The factory menu is really really badly labeled.

This PJ is again, much more powerful than it needs to be to put out a nice picture. I guess what I really mean is its got a lot of power in reserve. Its almost obnoxious.

Originally posted by Brian Fineberg
how do I edit my pic for a screenshot to fit into the window?? it is too big...my picture waws taken at 3.2 MP I would like to post them but dont know how


Set your cam back more.

I just take my pics with the left and right edges aligned to my camera. Auto everything, ISO 50, no flash. I recommend setting the cam to 1MP or less because AVSforum will scale it down. The extra resolution is wasted but will take up storage.

thanks Speedy......hey question for ya....what arte all your settings? I dont have any problem with soft dvds or fuzzyness.....I am actually stunned how Teater like film quality it is...I now realize that the SHARP bright pic from my RPTV was ntop what it looks like in the movie tehaters around but what I have now on my 125" screen!!

Bri

I am not gonna fire up my PJ again tonight so I will try to get the Screenies up tomorrrow!

Speedy,
I'm going to call BenQ tomorrow and get the swap.
I think you're right about the pj having power in reserve. What are you settings? I dialed my brightness and color down and it did improve the soft look.
Boy you can really tell a bad transfer on ths pj. Good transfers look really good.

That does seem to be the one "downside" to moving up in audio and video quality. The better your equipment, the more you can't stand bad mixing/recording/transfer efforts. :D A nice problem to have. I don't imagine 85% of listeners/viewers need pay any attention to the reviews of CDs/DVDs in Stereophile or Home Theater, but when you're tuned in...

On the question of softness, I too feel the 7800 to be less sharp, but I am also sitting about 1.5x away until we finish some renovations and I can move our couch back. I find that another 5 feet and things really come together. I also set picture settings according to Avia, but I may try upping the sharpness level a bit. It could also be my source (Toshiba SD-9200), because the pj's menu looks quite sharp. FYI, I am running progressive through a 10m component cable and using a Da-lite 92" Model C Hi-power.

All in all, I am quite pleased with my first pj.

i think you are right about AVIA's sharpness setting..actually I found if you use the settings posted earlier in ths thread and just tweak them ever so slightly it gives you a much more vibrant and deep picture.

It is true...somtimes I put a movie in and I am like...hey what happened to my settings they are off....but then I put in reference quality movie and the beauty returns.....dont mind having this problem!!

Brian

Hey Brian,

Did you get a the AE-700 yet? I am curious to see how you think the 2 compare. I would like to see some screen shots also when you get a chance. I will try to get some shots up but I tried last week and the pictures looked very bad. I will mess around with it later on this week.

I know what you guys mean about DVD quality. Bad PQ can also show its head in SD TV. Some of the non-HD football games are just terrible. HD makes it worth while though, I can't imagine going back to watching a game on my small 36" tube now :D .

Ya know I had it on preorder and it took forever so I just cncelled it . I am s happy with this projo that I figured I dont even want to see the otherone(kind of if you dont know what the difference is there will be no letdown) I will try to get those pics up tonight

Brian

Brian, idog, timjuliani,

The 7800 shows even the clearest DVD a bit soft. This was also mentioned in projectorreview. I really dont know why this is since it has more pixels than my X1. I'm not too worried about this because I noticed that HDTV is still sharper than DVD. SO perhaps when HD DVDs come out it'll be better.

Alot of factors add to the sharpness of the pic. I found that if the contrast is set too high, the pj tends to bloom the image. Also if the sharpness is too high, it will show more noise which adds to fuzzyness. Plus, having my image at 150" also tends to muddy the image.

Check this out..I was looking over the PJ FAQ on BenQ's site and it says this:

Q9. I’ve adjusted the zoom and focus rings, but the image is still a little fuzzy.

Please adjust the Phase setting in the menu.

So I'll try that tonight..

From memory my settings are the following. I wanted to turn down the "glow" from the brightness of the default settings so these are my settings:

OSD menu
Brightness 5
Contrast 16
Color 20

Factory Menu
DLP
Brightness -2 (as the bulb ages this goes up)
Contrast 85 (this contrast does not brighten the overall pic)

YrBr
Brightness 55 (this is in reverse, lower the brighter) This setting alone dialed down the "glow" of the brightness.
Contrast 100 (in reverse, lower the higher) Very subtle change in this setting but it does affect clipping.

The YrBr settings gave me the biggest change as these were dialed too high. I think it was dialed for presentation as the whites are very hot in the default setting. In HT, the whites are not supposed to be hot.

Weird I have not experienced any of what you are referring to SPeedy!

My whites are spot on and not too hot...and I really dont see a softness to the dvd image! Maybe it is just chalked up to different unit and envioronment, dvd player...etc. I DO notice a very smooth filmlike image but defionatly NO fuzzyness.

Brian

Quite possibly..and I also hit the recall factory settings..what a mistake.

Even Benq doesnt know why the color turns to "8-bit" when I did the factory settings recall. I have a hunch its the colorwheel delay adjustment labeled "CW" in the factory menu. When I moved this setting around it seems to have the same effect.

I'll try the phase adjustment tonight.

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
Brian, idog, timjuliani,

...
Alot of factors add to the sharpness of the pic. I found that if the contrast is set too high, the pj tends to bloom the image. Also if the sharpness is too high, it will show more noise which adds to fuzzyness. Plus, having my image at 150" also tends to muddy the image.
...

You know, at a 150", I don't really have too much sympathy for you. :p

lol good one...hehe

150" is a lot to be desired hehe...thats 25" BIGGER than MINE holy crap!!

oh and note to self NEVER hit factory re
call

Originally posted by DataModel
You know, at a 150", I don't really have too much sympathy for you. :p

Yes :D What do you really feel? Now now..focus on the positive. You too can go 150".

Anyway... my point is it shouldnt degrade that much.

here ya go

and another

and one last one

Hooked it up to tonight for the first time... projected on my DIY artist canvas 110" diagonal screen. This is my first PJ, so my opinion may not mean much (but it means a lot to me)... this is a nice PJ. Settings were non-optimized factory defaults.

Sitting 13.5 feet from screen (1.6875 x screen width), and feeding just a plain ol' 480i from my Sony 530D DVD player (about 5 years old) via component, I saw no SDE. No rainbows either... watched for about 1 hour. Watched Pirates of the Carrib and Bugs Life (no sound... speakers arrive Wednsday). Picture was punchy, and the contrast, especially in Pirates, was very nice. It'll only get better once I calibrate with Avia.

Others have mentioned the image being soft. Looked sharp to me... but what do I know!! Bugs Life is a digital transfer, and looked pretty sharp, as did Pirates.

-T

they look not keystoned cause the screen is about 2 feet above viewing line of sight(above my rptv)

Follow up... I heard some fan noise just like idog1969 in his post earlier in this thread... like an old movie projector. I have 1 year swap-out, so if it happens one more time, I am swapping this baby out.

-T

yeah I dont know about your fan noise...mine is abut the same as a computer. not noticeable at all unless there is dead silence which is almost never!

Brian

Speedy,

I'll be interested to hear your experience with the phase adjustment. I'm also going to play around with your settings today. I too have hit that damned Factory recall button by mistake in the dark a couple of times. It should be a menu option, not a button.

We watched Shrek 2 last night which looked beautiful. I do notice some motion blurring, but I don't know enough to know if that is the projector or the source.

Then I noticed that on the left side of the screen it looks like there is a cat hair fluttering about in the middle. It comes out about a foot and presents as a gray line. It is definitely not on the lens, so may be on the DSP, which is annoying.

I am also looking forward to getting a mount, as right now the pj is on a cabinet just behind us, and the fan noise is very noticeable. Can't really blame the pj though when your ear is about 1.5 feet away.

Have any of you seen the "Ultimate Projector Mount" on Ebay? The guy's username is dmrainey, and he has nearly 3000 positive feedbacks. The thing looks well-made, and he said that he could easily make a mount for the 7800 if I were to send him the hole pattern.

I've attached an image of the mount below, plus it sells for around $68 with shipping. Since he makes them, I think this would qualify as "MSRP".

Originally posted by Brian Fineberg
yeah I dont know about your fan noise...mine is abut the same as a computer. not noticeable at all unless there is dead silence which is almost never!

Brian

I am thinking the noise might have been related to the fan rotation, but I was guessing. The noise (clicking sound) was temporary, and lasted about a minute even though the PJ was on for about an hour. The fan itself is quiet.

For all I know, there could have been something else rotating that made the clicking sound.

anybody have an idea of the most breathtaking DVD they have watched on this PJ? I want ONE that I can ALWAYS go to when I want to show it off. I like the ones I posted in the screenshots but there has to be one that evryone loves and raves about.

thanks

BRian

[deleted]

I tune to HDTV. KQED at times show scenes that blows any DVD image away. Plus its always there.

Timjuliani,

the phase control seemed to give it a tad of sharpness. It used to be on 15. I moved it to 0. Give it a try, I think it may vary because of the signal from the dvd. I was watching a DivX version of Reloaded last night and I wasnt noticing sharpness issues at all with 0 phase.

I called BenQ about the clicking sound (which is always there for me) and they are replacing it with a new unit. I should have it in a couple of days. It could be the fan unit or the color wheel rotating. Either way, I'll be glad to have a quiet pj.

I will also try the phase adjustment for the softness (wouldn't say it's fuzzy). Thanks Speedy

As for reference DVD's, I always go to movies that have great pic and sound...

Gladiator and the fight scene. The DTS sound is incredible.

Blade 2, right after the credits I think with the motorcycle scene. great sound. pic is a bit dark though

Terminator 3. The colors in this movie are awesome. Great transfer as well. The crane scene

those are the three that stick out. Anyone else?

I agree those are good scenes. But it always gets them glued to the screen seeing high definition sources..

Fifth Element shows off colors when Leelo walks into the ship. A good reference dvd, especially the superbit version.

Shrek2 forest scene when they encounter Puss in Boots because it has different shades of depth.

I dont know how you all feel about Spy Kids 3-D but the brightness of this PJ really makes the 3D stand out.

Star Wars II - Count Dooku fight with Ben, Anakin and then Yoda. Nice blacks. No EE, ringing, halos on this DVD.

But I still think HDTV is where this PJ shines. No jaggies.

its funny I KNOW of good scences and have over 450 dvds but i alwayse draw a blank whne t comes to WHICH dvd to throw in when it comes to crunch time!

Brian

Really liking the AvelLinkplayer 2 from I-O Data...anyone else for this PJ? Because it plays WMVHD..and DivxHD apparantly. Just nervous about the non working 5.1 from the coax in the other dvd thread.

Anyone have a recommendation for a good progressive scan DVD player for this PJ?

As a follow-up to idog1969's question, has anyone tried a progressive DVD signal, and compared it with 480i output from the same DVD player? Which was better?

I ask because I was certain I needed an upconverting DVD player, or at a minimum, a 480p player, before ordering the 7800. But my picture looks pretty amazing using just 480i as input.

Thanks...
-T

Im not sure about the difference between 480i vs 480p but I do like 1080i over 480p. And if its an upconverting dvd player youre looking for, the Avel LinkPlayer2 is one to await to work out its bugs with the first firmware.

I use a Norcent/LiteOn upconverting dvd player at 1080i which looks good but not as sharp as my Panny RP-82 at 480p. I use the 1080i mainly because of the cropping issue.

ok here is a question that sounds newb-ish. I have never seen an upconverting plasyer....so the question is. DOes it produce a much better dvd image....i mean I really am stunned by the quality of dvd image on this machine(not to mention the HD) but I was wondering if I am losing out by not having an upconverting dvd player.

Bri

Originally posted by Brian Fineberg
ok here is a question that sounds newb-ish. I have never seen an upconverting plasyer....so the question is. DOes it produce a much better dvd image....i mean I really am stunned by the quality of dvd image on this machine(not to mention the HD) but I was wondering if I am losing out by not having an upconverting dvd player.

Bri

Brian

Although my projector is not arriving until next week I have seen this projector with a Denon upconverting DVD player and it looked fantastic. I think the improvement stems from an all digital path (slightly sharper and brighter) and other threads have identified that upconversion of DVD material from 480P improves the picture detail. I am also looking at a reasonable cost (read cheap!) DVI upconverting player that has a great digital picture (not concerned with component).

John:)

Great! thanks for the reply. Now are there any players that are good that I should be looking at(I know this is not the best forum) but I figured one that would mate well with this projo/


Thanks

B

I'm upconverting on component.

I'd still vote for the Momitsu V880 but if you can wait, really, the I-O Data AvelLinkplayer 2 and it's equiv players is the one to get. You can get one now for ~$250. The reason is this player has a future with Windows Media 9 in HD while it still plays all the CD/DVD formats including DivX and DivXHD.

Edit: The Avel only has component. No DVI.

I compared a Denon 1910 upconverting (thru DVI) to a plain jane Panasonic and couldn't see noticeable differences other than removing the overscan problem.

T-Bone

I have a Toshiba SD-9200 DVD and I have experimented with changing from Interlaced to Progressive and back on the fly. On my system, the progressive image is brighter and has more color saturation. It appears sharper, but that may be partly due to the difference in brightness/contrast. (It may be a difference in contrast, not brightness, as I am not always sure what the difference is). The player now lives on the progressive setting.

Currently, I imagine that my next DVD player upgrade will be to an HD-DVD sometime in 2006.

By the way, I purchased the mount on Ebay yesterday from "dmrainey" for a reasonable price. Hopefully it will be here next week.

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
I'm upconverting on component.

I'd still vote for the Momitsu V880 but if you can wait, really, the I-O Data AvelLinkplayer 2 and it's equiv players is the one to get. You can get one now for ~$250. The reason is this player has a future with Windows Media 9 in HD while it still plays all the CD/DVD formats including DivX and DivXHD.

Edit: The Avel only has component. No DVI.

Speedy,

Everything I have read about component vs. DVI is that there is some loss of picture detail with the D/A to A/D conversion that has to take place rather than a straight digital path right from the DVD to the screen. Now that loss in detail may be slight but it's still there. I still think the component picture is great but I'm always looking for that little bit extra and the DVI player like the V880 (which is on my short list) will provide a great digital picture at a reasonable cost.

John:)

Yup..I know about the DVI .One of the reasons to go with the 7800. In your case I would get a Momitsu V880. V880N if you can get one.

If I was younger I think I'd be unwilling to compromise. But now Im getting older..things dont need to be perfect, at least not at the DVI vs component level.

Perfectmounts.com has good mounts for the 7800. I bought one there. If you get one though, make sure they include M4 screws for the pj mount and include 3/4" spacers

I was thinking about a Harmon Kardon progressive dvd player, or a denon...
I am currently running 480i and the internal pj's deinterlacer. the pic is very good but i have read in a couple of places that the progressive scan image delivers a sharper and brighter pic. I believe this is the same as the 8700 as it uses the same chipset.

Originally posted by idog1969
Perfectmounts.com has good mounts for the 7800. I bought one there. If you get one though, make sure they include M4 screws for the pj mount and include 3/4" spacers

I purchased the Chief RPA-560, along with the CMA-105 ceiling plate. The 1 1/2" NPT was purchased at HD (20" for $4.00). Prepped pipe by sanding with 150 grit sandpaper, then primed, then painted with Rust-o-leum Black Texture. The pipe's finish looks almost exactly like the Chief finish.

I noticed that HD had circular flanges... the flange could be used in lieu of the Chief ceiling plate. Damn, I could have saved even more money.

-T

Just to kepp everyone informed. I zoomed in my PJ to its max giving an ENORMOUS picture(eventhough it was projected (the top) over a peice of wood on my wall...and the Picture was still AMAZING. absolutly no degrading of the pic. I would assume the picture was at least 150" or more....since mine is already 125" and I dont have it that zoomed in.

SO fo those wondering about brightness of this pj it is a cannon. Does not get blurry at all. And screen door is really not an issue at all! And HD is unreal. AT first I was concerned it wasnt full HD but it is so good I really dont think I could tell the difference in small improvement!
Any questions on this PJ let me know. I recommend it 130%

Brian

Originally posted by DataModel
I compared a Denon 1910 upconverting (thru DVI) to a plain jane Panasonic and couldn't see noticeable differences other than removing the overscan problem.

Thats exactly what I was saying.

No blurs from HDTV here either at 150" 16:9..of course thats based on 1.73:1 source like HDTV. 1.85 and 2.35, 2.40 still look like Im viewing on the battle field, in a tank.

Try setting the phase to 0 if you have blurs from dvd component. You dont get phase adjustments from DVI however.

I just got the 7800 and am projecting on a 106" screen and I hear what you are saying about HDTV, but am wondering the same thing about the resolution and am contemplating how much better the Sony HS-51 would be. Anyone care to comment if they think I would see a difference on HD material? Thanks

-Joel

Joel

Well just for a for what its worth.......I have my sony HDTV RPTV right underneath my screen and I have had them on at the same timew to directly compar...and there literally was no discernable difference in the two. I was very surprised...the only thing iI found was that the seetings for HDTV on the PJ and the DVD settings on the PJ were different(i.e brightness and contrast) but i just saved them to two different inputs.

So with that comparison you need to have a really good videophile eye. MInd you I have 20-15 vision and I cant tell the difference!

Brian

Cowher36,

kraine does have his contrast up a bit and it shows that the detail is lost between his HDMI and YUV screenshots. It looks like the black plague is taking over. This was exactly what I tried to dial out of my 7800 earlier.

Theres one screenshot of a lady in a white shirt. If that was the true contrast, my eyes would be watering and sore after because it is overpowering. That is what I call "too hot". Again this indicates the contrast setting is way up.

Honestly I believe kraine's HS50 is dimmer than it looks because reviewers say the HS50/51 appear dim with autoiris on. Recall that in other AE-700 and HS50/51 reviews, people say with autoiris off, the Sony looks about as bright and no more than the AE-700. Im pretty sure his Nikon 4300 is compensating since its on auto with no flash. That means the camera will open it's iris to allow more light in.

Saw this PJ posted by Alan in the dynamic DLP thread..

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=86837&catGroupId=14585&modelNo=PT-DW7000U/U-K&surfModel=PT-DW7000U/U-K

Liquid cooled. God that reminds me of those ultra high OC'ed PCs with water cooled radiators off the side...

Was tweaking some factory menu settings last night..particularly the CW delay.

This is the color wheel delay and I found that when I did the factory reset, somehow the value changed. This delay if not adjusted right, causes posterization/banding. Skin tones is the best scene to adjust with for smooth color. Mine is at 340 now and this doesnt matter how the PJ is setup. Seems smoother now and a tad more clearer.

great! thanks for the heads up speedy....will have to try this tonight!

let ya know what my results were


Bri

There may be variations in the build of each pj..so I must say ymmv.

So I emailed ProjectorCentral and asked if they were going to review the 7800 and their response was:

Maybe never. After looking at it, it is not a product I can get behind, and I am trying to put a spotlight on the best ones at the moment. I may comment on it in the Projector News page, but it is not a product I would recommend. The Panny 700 and the Sanyo Z3 both blow it away.

This surprised me...now I hear great things about the Panny but this isn't a projector they would recommend? I don't get that...

Does the 7800 fall that short of these two pj's?

Thoughts?

idog1969,

The 7800 is not a product he can get behind because he isn't receiving any funding/kickbacks that would justify trying to hype it on his website. Projector Central seems very, very biased to me to very specific products IMHO. Look how often they try to promote the DVDO Iscan or the Bravo D2... they are getting something for it IMHO.

That's interesting. Please allow me to ramble a bit about pj reviews: I have posted links to their review of the SP5700 below which they gave high marks. I believe it has many of the same specs as our 7800s but lower CR.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_screenplay_5700.htm
I also posted a link to the 5700 specs:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/InFocus_Home-ScreenPlay_5700.htm
Also, there is a brief mention back in in Sept of what they had in their lab and the 7800 and Panny AE700 are both mentioned:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_news092904.htm

I'm not sure what the AE 700 sells for, but I'm sure it's more than what we paid for our 7800s at AVS. I've come to realize that no matter what I buy in the technology world, it will very soon be bettered or obsoleted by another. In my case, I purchased an HK AVR7200 last January at the end of it's production run. This was intentional and I got it from an authorized online dealer for $1300 less than I saw it a day later in a B&M dealer. I also purchased the 7800 from AVS for their buyout price which was even more of a savings than the HK7200. I figured it was being phased out because they were getting so much attention from the 8700+ and the 6*** series. It was only a matter of time before the LCD guys came up with something that could compete. I'm only assuming that the Panny AE700 phenomenon has them overwhelmed and the 7800 had no hope.

Then there is this review of the 7800 which says: "The PE7800 produces a great image. The image is virtually indistinguishable from the PE8700, which I use as reference, and consider to be the best projector value around.(And one of the best projectors under $10,000 (it typically sells for less than half of that.) This is no surprise, since the slightly lower resolution Matterhorn DLP (1024x576) chip is the only real difference between the two." and "Film-like is the way I would describe the 7800. It is so natural, that the first time you see a 7800 showing a DVD, you will think that it appears a little soft, but with natural colors, and little sense that you are watching a projector.


That “softness” illusion vanishes when you feed it a first class HDTV source and content. The HDTV content, if top of the line, (and much isn’t because the footage was shot with cameras with less resolution than HDTV can support), is so much sharper than DVD, that you can’t believe it. You then realize the reason the 7800 appears initially soft on DVD, is that, by comparison, the DVD just can’t provide a sharp enough image to challenge the 7800!"
http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=18&page=3

Now, go back to PC and look at their top rated "high-end" pj is...it's the BQ 8700+ Remember that the previous review above said: " The image is virtually indistinguishable from the PE8700". Then look at numbers 3 & 5 on the budget list...it's the BQ6100 and 6200. I guess they just can't give another spot to a BQ pj.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/home-theater-multimedia-projectors.htm

I think PC has some advertising dollars to consider.

OK, now I've gone back to the projector reviews site and found a new review of the 700:
It says: "When comparing the AE700u against other projectors, notably the BenQ PE8700+ (DLP) and the JVC HD2K (3 chip D-ILA), as well as LCD projectors, the image is not consistant with the other projectors. If anything, colors seem to be higher in saturation, and contrast between colors greater than any other projector. I have to believe that while many viewers will find the net effect most pleasing, it is not quite right. This sometimes (especially in darker scenes) results in flesh tones being oversaturated, so that they appear too colorful." While not comparing it to the 7800, it does compare it the the 8700+ which as you remember, the same guys says was: "virtually indistinguishable" from the 7800. He gives the 700 a great review and I'm sure it is an excellent pj. My 7800 is still in it's box for another week or two until we are finished with the HT. If it is just a little better than my old X1, I'll be very happy.


Originally posted by idog1969
So I emailed ProjectorCentral and asked if they were going to review the 7800 and their response was:

Maybe never. After looking at it, it is not a product I can get behind, and I am trying to put a spotlight on the best ones at the moment. I may comment on it in the Projector News page, but it is not a product I would recommend. The Panny 700 and the Sanyo Z3 both blow it away.

This surprised me...now I hear great things about the Panny but this isn't a projector they would recommend? I don't get that...

Does the 7800 fall that short of these two pj's?

Thoughts?

Another thing to consider is that both the Panny and the Z3 are LCD PJs. There is no DLPs in the price range of the 7800 that have that Matterhorn chip in it and the 5X color wheel. The 7800 is my first PJ so I can't compare to the others, but I am extremely happy with the purchase and look forward to a couple years with my set-up.

I am considering getting a Dennon 2910 to see just how good upconverted DVDs will look. Anybody have any input on this?

Rick

Jeff,
Good to see you in the thread again. Did you set up your PJ yet?

I followed up with PC and said that one of my reasons for buying the 7800 was because it was similar in specs to the 8700 and it had the same chip as the infocus 5700. Both PJ's received excellent reviews on PC.

The response was:
"The image has good contrast but color is simply dull compared to the LCDs which have superior color saturation. I am seeing the same problem on other DLP projectors as well."

I think this comes down the the LCD fans vs the DLP fans. The new LCD's are the flavor of the month.

I'm not trying to bash PC. I do like that site. I was just surprised at the response and think there may be some truth to what's being said here

Either way, I think we'd all agree the 7800 is an excellent buy!!

Any review can be crafted to be for or against the 7800. Just look at guitarman's comparison of the H31 to the 4805. The H31 is all great.

For me , you have to start somewhere and live with a PJ. Understand what it does and how it does things. Then when you get your next PJ, you'll know instantly what is better and what isn't. All reviews are subjective. You should see it yourself.

If we go by the number of posts in the tweak thread for the AE700 at the top of the page versus this thread for the PE7800 I would surmise that this projector is more popular with this informed group of FP enthusiasts.:D

John

I agree. These reviews are a lot like statistical data. For example, based on the current price and not the original list price, I'd bet the PC would give the7800 a great review.

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
Any review can be crafted to be for or against the 7800. Just look at guitarman's comparison of the H31 to the 4805. The H31 is all great.

For me , you have to start somewhere and live with a PJ. Understand what it does and how it does things. Then when you get your next PJ, you'll know instantly what is better and what isn't. All reviews are subjective. You should see it yourself.

Yep, I couldn't be happier considering what I paid and the quality of the image.

As for the Denon upconversion, search this thread for "1910". I purchased (and returned) this upconverting DVD player. But if you have a DVI cable run to your projector (I don't), you may notice a difference.

Jeff,
You're right, infact I asked PC how they would compare the 7800 to the 4805 and this is the response:

The 7800 has lower fan noise and better HDTV capability. It has less visible pixelation due to higher resolution. However, if you were watching DVDs only from a distance of 2x the screen width and fan noise was not an issue for you, the 4805 would be an attractive alternative given its much lower price.

Although the price of the 4805 has dropped some, we're not talking about a 3k difference. He is comparing the 7800 to 4k machines.

Hey Data,

I do have DVI run to my projector right now. I had it hooked up to my Tivo, but I have the dreaded hdmi output problem. I can get a great price on the Dennon so I might just give it a shot and report my findings.

Rick

You nailed it. He is using the list price to identify the segment in which he compares the 7800. On the other hand and to his credit, I just did a quick search on Froogle and I still see it listed at prices as high as $3999. Those of us who purchased from AVS got a GREAT deal.


Originally posted by idog1969
Jeff,
You're right, infact I asked PC how they would compare the 7800 to the 4805 and this is the response:

The 7800 has lower fan noise and better HDTV capability. It has less visible pixelation due to higher resolution. However, if you were watching DVDs only from a distance of 2x the screen width and fan noise was not an issue for you, the 4805 would be an attractive alternative given its much lower price.

Although the price of the 4805 has dropped some, we're not talking about a 3k difference. He is comparing the 7800 to 4k machines.

Robert AKA Mandarax said that his projector mounts for the 7800/8700 are currently his top sellers. I have his mount for the Infocus X1 and have been very happy with it. Fortunately, there is an upgrade path so I just need to buy a new plate for the 7800.

Photos and more information can be found in the "X1 DIY Mount" thread.

I bought my 7800 over a month ago but can't get my hands on it until the 23rd. Can't wait...

When I first set up my PJ, I noticed that Memory settings 1 and 2 were identical. I never looked at 3. The default settings for 1 and 2 made for an attractive picture out of the box.

So I spend some time calibrating with Avia, and saving to memory 1. Then I happen to look at memory 3 settings (they were much different than 1 and 2), and to my surprise, the PQ using 3 was better than what I calibrated using Avia.

If you have not checked setting 3, you may want to do so.

-T

T-Bone what is your settings on memory 3?

Speedy,

I am at work now, so I will post my memory 3 settings later tonight.

-T

Thanks T-Bone..

This PJ should be popular because the only difference is the DMD compared to the 8700, 8700+ and see how popular those are. Almost everything discussed in 8700 threads also apply to the 7800.

Originally posted by idog1969
So I emailed ProjectorCentral and asked if they were going to review the 7800 and their response was:

Maybe never. After looking at it, it is not a product I can get behind, and I am trying to put a spotlight on the best ones at the moment. I may comment on it in the Projector News page, but it is not a product I would recommend. The Panny 700 and the Sanyo Z3 both blow it away.

This surprised me...now I hear great things about the Panny but this isn't a projector they would recommend? I don't get that...

Does the 7800 fall that short of these two pj's?

Thoughts?

I think the unfortunate thing is that they wouldn't review something because they didn't like it. Although I don't have the extensive experience of others I've been happy with my 7800 especially since it was approx. 1000 less than the AE700 or Z3. However, I would have welcomed negative opinions on projectors when researching what to buy. By only posting positive reviews they're doing a disservice to those who look for their website for objective comparisons between similarly priced projectors.

well said....by the way where did u get it for l1000 less than thodse pjs?

I bought it here from AVS. The price differential comes from the fact that up here in the Great White North the projectors are much more expensive in general. According to their website the BenQ warranty covers both the Canada and US whereas shipping the Sanyo or Panasonic up here would have voided the warranty.

Interestingly, I was just browsing the magazines at Chapters and one called "HDTV Etc." had a lot of good things to say about the 7800 (they gave it a 95 presumably out of 100) another, with the exception of the most expensive category, had all the "Top Projectors of 2004" the InFocus line. They also gave an average rating to the 8700. It really makes you wonder how these things are arrived at.

[i] By only posting positive reviews they're doing a disservice to those who look for their website for objective comparisons between similarly priced projectors. [/B]

On the other hand: If they post a negative review, they do a disservice to themselves...in a loss of advertising dollars.

Interesting. On projectorreviews.com, they gave the 7800 high marks, saying it was nearly indistinguishable in many respects to the 8700. Projector Central gives the 8700 a "highly recommended" (which seems to be their only category) and then says that the 7800 is a pos compared to the AE700 and the Z3. I would be interested to hear his reasons behind this, especially since it seems to be a minority opinion.

Having not seen the Z3 or the AE700 myself, I cannot comment on a comparison.

I too agree, however, that it is ridiculous that PJ Central doesn't write up a review, even if it is negative. People might actually take his "Highly Recommended" as being worth something if he explained why be did not recommend other projectors.

I will be getting the Dennon 2910 tomorrow and will let you guys know how DVDs look upconverted through DVI. It should be interesting. I will be able to try them out at 720p and 1020i. I am having the HDMI problem with my HD-Tivo so I will just use comp with it for now and use the DVI for DVDs.

Rick

By the way, did you guys see that AVS is running a Christmas special on the 7800 again? I'm afraid to know what it is selling for now...;)

Thanks Rick. Will look forward to hearing your upconverting results.

Looks like memory 3 was not that great after all... was watching Lost in HD (looked great BTW), and memory 3 caused a huge loss in shadow detail that I had not noticed last night watching Pirates of the Carrib. In fact, the default setting of memory 2 (first 4 Display quantities are: 15, 30, 15, 30, sharpness set to 0. remaining 5 quantities set to 17) had much more shadow detail.

I decided not to post the memory 3 settings since, upon closer examination, they were not that great.

Sorry for the misinformation.

-T

I posted in Ericbres' comparison of the 4805 and 5120..I dont think Im alone here but I think Benqs tend to black crush. That is, not having much detail in dark areas.

Take a look at his comments in this thread about the detail loss in the buildings on the 5120. I tried to dial this out without oversaturating with brightness and glow.

For me the factory menu settings for YBr component is the best measures to counter this. Then fine tune with the OSD brightness/contrast.

Originally posted by idog1969
So I emailed ProjectorCentral and asked if they were going to review the 7800 and their response was:

Maybe never. After looking at it, it is not a product I can get behind, and I am trying to put a spotlight on the best ones at the moment. I may comment on it in the Projector News page, but it is not a product I would recommend. The Panny 700 and the Sanyo Z3 both blow it away.

This surprised me...now I hear great things about the Panny but this isn't a projector they would recommend? I don't get that...

Does the 7800 fall that short of these two pj's?

Thoughts?

Sure, they cannot get behind the 7800, but they drooled all over the Sony HS51 that was selling for MSRP, and had the ordasity to suggest that the HS51 be coupled with a DVDO iScanHD+ unit (for $1500) because the HS51 scaler was lacking.

In this review (http://www.projectorcentral.com/sony_vpl-hs51.htm), they stated:

- "The one significant weakness of the HS51 is in its scaling of standard definition material through the analog ports"

- "Conversely, since DVD is a cleaner signal, the scaling artifacts become quite a bit more visible. Using analog component inputs side by side with the AE700, the HS51 appears to be noisy and digital, whereas the AE700 appears smoother, better integrated, and more film-like."

- "The better but more costly alternative is to use the DVDO iScan HD+ video processor as a front end to the HS51."

- "The combination of the Sony HS51 and the DVDO iScan HD+ falls into a price range of about $4500 to $5,000 depending upon discounts available. Therefore, this combination competes directly with the Yamaha LPX-510 and the Epson Cinema 500, both of which are also 1280x720 resolution LCD projectors"

Call me kooky, but how can they drool all over an LCD PJ that *needs* a 1500 scaler when using anything but the DVI/HMDI interface?

-T

Indeed.

I just watched I, Robot...and let me tell you! this PJ is just awesome...I really would be hard pressed to get a better image.

For those of you looking for demo material this movie is it! I actually really enjoyed the mopvie as well.

They were all about the 7800 on PJcentral and getting a review out"soon" why all of a sudden is it a pice of crap to them,??

weird

Brian

PC needs to read the 700 thread, and 700 Tweaks thread... PC loved te 700.

-T

It does appear that PC is in it for the kick-backs. I agree, why would an LCD pj be highly recommended and need a $1500 scaler to look good unless there was some sort of kick-back involved.

I suppose we'll never know.

I did discuss the PC comment with Jason. Needless to say, he didn't agree :) Can't say I do either.

I would much rather talk about the 7800 tweaks than to make this thread into another 7800 vs X,Y,Z thread. Can we do that please?

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
I would much rather talk about the 7800 tweaks than to make this thread into another 7800 vs X,Y,Z thread. Can we do that please?

Agreed...

But to be honest, I might be missing something... I am pretty happy with the PQ as it is. Saw Moulan Rouge last night, and close-ups were razor sharp. I did see the softness that you all spoke of... mainly on objects that are not "in your face" on the screen.

- Speedy, it was the phase adjustment that you tweaked to make the PQ less soft? How did you access that adjustment?

- And back to the factory-set memory 3 settings, I will post tonight after all as an FYI knowing that all sets are different. The factory settings on #3 were great on DVD material (hence my original post), but on HDTV material, there was black crush (hence my follow-up post). Makes sense that HDTV and DVD sources will need their own settings. I was wondering why those settings looked like crap all of a sudden on Wednesday when watching Lost.

-T

I think there is room for both :) but you are quite right to keep us on target.

I played with the phase as you suggested, but it is under the "PC & HDTV" setting, neither of which I am using, so it didn't seem to make a difference. I have noticed that the softness is reduced as I get to about 2x away from the screen, and my couch should move back there once renovations are finished in our other room. Right now I am at about 1.5-1.75x away and pixelization is visible especially on dark scenes (quite noticeable on Master & Commander), along with some SDE on bright scenes. When I sit back where I should, no problems.

last night to compare to the 7800 that I have had for about a week. Played with the Sony for about three hours last night and placed right back in its box and will be sending the Sony back. The BenQ is what I prefer, as the Sony appeared soft. I am no videophile but I have them both dialed in using the AVIA disc. What I did like about the HS51 was the lens shift.

Originally posted by Cowher36
last night to compare to the 7800 that I have had for about a week. Played with the Sony for about three hours last night and placed right back in its box and will be sending the Sony back. The BenQ is what I prefer, as the Sony appeared soft. I am no videophile but I have them both dialed in using the AVIA disc. What I did like about the HS51 was the lens shift.

Very interesting. The Sony is being lauded as the breakthrough LCD projector with it's elevated CR and dynamic iris. I would have thought the 7800 would be no match for the HS51. Can you tell us what comparisons you used and if the dynamic iris was on auto or on/off.

Thanks, John

There is just something about the picture that tells me it should be sharper.
I will play around with the RCA connection vs BNC. I know under DVI the phase doesnt work. I too notice phase doesnt do much in BNC either. Luckily my DVD has a sharpness control that I'll play with. Just gotta be sharper than this. The 2x width theory is cool until I switch on HDTV. I know DVD source would be less clear but hoping not this soft.

edit: my dvd player does not have sharpness control.

Well I can say that I am getting a very sharp picture with the Denon 2910. I have it set at 720p through DVI. The picture is amazing. I will have to go through the AVIA disk again but I can already see an improvement over my old DVD player. I just got done watching The Fellowship of the Ring and it is as close to HD as I have seen on a DVD.
I am sitting 9' back from a 77" screen. If I move a foot closer I can start to see the screen door effect. I am very happy with the picture from where I am at now. The only problem I do have is catching focus on fast moving scenes. Is this a common problem with bigger screens? As soon as the action slows down the focus is fine. I am thinking that I am just not used to so much screen to watch.
Hope you get things figured out Speedy, and let us know if there is anything we can try to help you out also.

Cheers,
Rick

Could it be PJC is not interested in posting a 7800 review because the 7800 is about to be discontinued? This may also explain why you're getting such a super discount on this PJ.
I just hope the 7900 has lens shift ;o).

If you can find the center of your screen you dont need lens shift. really, lens shift is a nice to have not a must.

Just an FYI since I said I would post them. These default settings resulted in a picture that was more pleasing than when I cal'd the 7800 using Avia. Naturally, all 7800s are different.

Brightness: 20
Contrast: 16
Color: 36
Tint: 15
Sharpness: 0
Filters: 3
Red: 15
Green: 15
Blue: 17
Yellow: 13

T-Bone what is the setting for your HD under the service menu, particularly YrB?

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
T-Bone what is the setting for your HD under the service menu, particularly YrB?

Do you mean the "PC & HDTV" menu? Either way, I do not know at the moment.

-T

Uh, no, thats the OSD menu. Theres a specific HD adjustment on the service menu. I ask because your OSD menu settings depend on what the service menu HD setting is.

Speedy,

Just searched this thread for service menu access. I'll check it out later tonight when I turn the pj on. I so re-read your post in this thread (# 138, drapp1952's factory settings). I may fool around with those setting tomorrow.

-T

Service Menu access : Menu, power on. The signal descriptor on the bottom right turns red. Hit menu twice. You should see the service menu now in a green border.

Look under HD adjustments for YrB component and brightness.

On the subject of soft images..

I played the trilogy (ESB particularly), and noticed that my Panny RP-82 at 480p gave a cleaner image than my Norcent DP-501 at 1080i. I'm presuming that my RP-82 provides a cleaner video.

What scan rate are you playing your DVDs at and with what make of DVD player, component or DVI?

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
On the subject of soft images..

I played the trilogy (ESB particularly), and noticed that my Panny RP-82 at 480p gave a cleaner image than my Norcent DP-501 at 1080i. I'm presuming that my RP-82 provides a cleaner video.

What scan rate are you playing your DVDs at and with what make of DVD player, component or DVI?

Player: Sony 530D
DVD Output: 480i
Connection: Component

-T

T-Bone, Do you believe youre getting a sharp image?

Speedy,

Yes. My image is absolutely sharp. Watched Gothika last night, and all images were sharp and detailed. Bruce Almighty and Moulan Rouge were spot on.

I am running 110" 16:9. Do you feel your image could be sharper? Can you zoom down to 110" diag to see if sharpness improves?

-T

Speedy, I don't know if that was a general question or directed at Mr. Bone, but I will reply anyway. :D My "soft" picture comes from a four year old Toshiba SD-9200 (top o' the line back in the day). Output is 480 progressive component. Progressive is a clear improvement over interlaced, but mostly in color and brightness, not sharpness.

As I think about the sharpness issue, its all relative. Looks sharp to me, but you guys might look at my image and think "soft." :)

I can only compare my image to my 5 year-old 4:3 53" Sony XBR300 RPTV (upconverts 480i to 1440 x 960i)... compared to the Sony, the 7800 is sharper even when the 7800's image is more than 2x the size of the Sony image.

I viewed 720p true HDTV material on my 7800, and the 7800 is a lot sharper (as to be expected), especially with objects in the background. There is only so much data on a 480 DVD...

-T

I will try to be careful in making sure that what I see as "soft" isn't an optical illusion caused by greater resolution.

T-Bone, have you tried 480p, based on tim's results? If so how did it compare to 480i?

SpeedyHTPC,

Have not tried 480p DVD... player does not support it.

I did try true 720p OTA HDTV down-converted to both 480i and 480p... it was difficult to A/B by switching the HDTV receiver because the 7800 took a second to re-sync to the different signal.

Anyway, both looked real good (sharpness and color)... I'd be hard pressed to tell you there was a noticeable difference. Receiver was Samsung T451 (no longer have it... returned it last weekend).

-T

Speedy,

I don't think it is an illusion, but then again I do not have much with which to compare except the output on my 32" Panasonic CRT. All of this being said, I am still quite pleased -- there will always be a quest for more and better. I suppose when we get 1080p we'll start wanting our personal Holodecks.

Speaking of 1080p..I was reading Mr Wigggles report on how the xHD3 chipset from TI will do 1080p. It seems more impressive than a true 1080p panel ..but that will be quite a few years down the road..

Hello,

I know, I know, just another new FP owner providing first impressions on this projector. But I do have some questions as well.

The UPS driver dropped it off yesterday afternoon and I quickly opened up the box. What a heavy projector! This is definitely not a portable. The build quality seems to be very good although the buttons seem to be shiny chrome painted plastic. Whatever is in this thing it's substantial.

Tested it out with a cheap progressive scan Philips DVD player and could not get the colors dialed in - missing red for the most part. It could be a problem with my component cable - not sure yet as I have some more testing to do. I'll try interlaced and S-video tonight to see if the problem persists.

Could not see any pixelation at 14' back from a 100" diagonal screen (wall). Smooth picture - could make out a couple of very brief RB flashes but because the color is so far off I am not passsing judgement on this yet.

I tried S&V and Video Essentials setup discs (have had them for a few years). I could not get the pluge pattern to even show on the S&V DVD. So I tried VE and could see the pluge pattern - set up the projector contrast so just one bar was visible. The brightness gray scale box pattern and the vertical line test does not seem to work for digital projectors as I could not get any blooming to happen, so I eyeballed the setting. Will need to test it out with some bright DVD scenes as soon as I get the color sorted out. I tried setting up the tint and color controls - could set up the tint with the blue filter, but color controls are way off and there has to be a problem with my set-up (cable, DVD player) as there is no red showing up. Anyone have any ideas of what to check?

I ran out of time but ultimately I want to use a DVI upconverting DVD player with this projector. I was using the BNC inputs and feeding a progressive scan image - saw the pixel cropping issue on the right hand side as reported earlier - way too much cropping IMO. I haven't ordered the DVD player yet but do have my digital HD DVI satellite box being set up in the new year.

I went back and wrote down some of the previous picture settings and will try them tonight. Oh, I haven't gone into the service menu yet as well.

John:)

johnny_marin,

LCDs do not bloom, so that part of the test is not valid.

My 7800 looked pretty good out of the box. As stated earlier, my default setting in Memory #3 looked better than what I could do with Avia. Check out setting #3.

Originally posted by T-Bone
johnny_marin,

LCDs do not bloom, so that part of the test is not valid.

My 7800 looked pretty good out of the box. As stated earlier, my default setting in Memory #3 looked better than what I could do with Avia. Check out setting #3.

T-Bone, I think you meant DLPs do not bloom. I'll try setting #3 after I figure out what's wrong with my setup.

Thanks, John

Originally posted by johnny_marin
T-Bone, I think you meant DLPs do not bloom. I'll try setting #3 after I figure out what's wrong with my setup.

Thanks, John

I should have said DLP. Avia explicitly mentioned LCDs not blooming, so I had that thought stuck in my head.

-T

john, you sure you didnt flip-flop green and blue?

try 480i on the RCA components see if you can see red or not.

About the pluge pattern and the bars..see my post above for the service menu YrB component adjustments to make that more visible.

The 7800 comes with contrast set to "burn" out of the box. Im glad someone else thinks the cropping is a bit much with 480p. 1080i is liveable. Heck 480p is liveable as well now that I believe the Panny puts out a better pic than the Norcent (LiteOn).

Yup, do all the above..

Guys,
I'm nearing the end of my HT construction. I almost made a big mistake with the mounting postion for my pj. I had an outlet installed and ran conduit before all the drywall was hung. However, I measured from the front wall and didn't take my false wall into consideration. It is 36" from the front wall. Actually, I think I may have calculated correctly, because I was originally going to use an 80" wide 16:9 screen. Now, I have upped it to 96"w x 54"h 16:9. The calculator on the PJC site says throw distance is 15.9' This thing will zoom, so I should have some play built in...correct? Also, I'm thinking about 1.5x distance for my first row.

Here is my site detailing my progress: http://europa70.tripod.com//hovisht001.htm

Originally posted by Jeff Hovis
Guys,
I'm nearing the end of my HT construction. I almost made a big mistake with the mounting postion for my pj. I had an outlet installed and ran conduit before all the drywall was hung. However, I measured from the front wall and didn't take my false wall into consideration. It is 36" from the front wall. Actually, I think I may have calculated correctly, because I was originally going to use an 80" wide 16:9 screen. Now, I have upped it to 96"w x 54"h 16:9. The calculator on the PJC site says throw distance is 15.9' This thing will zoom, so I should have some play built in...correct? Also, I'm thinking about 1.5x distance for my first row.

Here is my site detailing my progress: http://europa70.tripod.com//hovisht001.htm

Jeff, I have the same size screen (96 x 54), and mounted my PJ such that the lens is 14'-6" from screen, giving me a range from 100" to 122" diagonal. So for 110", I am zoomed 1/2 way. I see no visible degradation by using the zoom.

I sit such that my eyes are 13'-6" (1.6875xwidth) from screen, and see no SDE, or artifacts for that matter. You should be okay with 1.5xwidth because I've leaned forward in my chair (put my eyes ate 1.5x), and saw no SDE.

Oh, nice house BTW.

-T

Jeff,

Nice 1970s disco chairs ;) :D

You must be chomping at the bit. I saw you are going with an acoustically transparent screen -- have you decided which one yet?

On throw range: My 7800 manual says a 50.6x90 screen has a throw range of 12-15 feet, and for a 56.3x100 screen a distance of 13.5-16.5 is required. So I would figure around 13-16, which is pretty close to PJC.

As for distance, from my experience 1.5x is going to be a bit close. I have a 45x80 (wishing I'd gone a little bigger, but whatever) and am currently sitting 1.7x from the screen. I see a lot of pixelization on dark scenes (like all of Master and Commander) and limited SDE. Everything comes together about 2 feet farther back, which is 2x, and once our renovation of the adjacent room is finished and I can move all the crap out of the HT, that's where the couch will be.

I must say I do have HT chair envy.

Happy Holidays to all-

Tim

And proves that everything is in the eye of the beholder (and your source). I guess my suggestion would be to do some testing before you anchor anything down, although it doesn't look like those chairs need anchoring. My suggestion: THX-1138 for SDE and Master and Commander or The Matrix for pixelization!

tim

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
john, you sure you didnt flip-flop green and blue?

try 480i on the RCA components see if you can see red or not.

About the pluge pattern and the bars..see my post above for the service menu YrB component adjustments to make that more visible.

The 7800 comes with contrast set to "burn" out of the box. Im glad someone else thinks the cropping is a bit much with 480p. 1080i is liveable. Heck 480p is liveable as well now that I believe the Panny puts out a better pic than the Norcent (LiteOn).

Yup, do all the above..

Speedy, are you saying that the green and blue could be crossed over? I could have made a mistake with my wiring. Do I just turn over the green and blue at one end and see if the picture is OK? I suspected it was the Pr (red) cable and crossed it over at both ends with the Y (green) cable to see if it was the cable itself. When I did that I got no picture at all. Up until then I was getting a picture but with no red whatsoever. I checked the OSD settings and I should be getting red. I tried S-video and the picture was almost perfect, even after I dialed in the the brightness, contrast, color and tint in the OSD. I'll try the green and blue crossover tonight but I suspect a bad connector on the Pr cable as I made the cables myself. I just need to figure out which end is at fault. How do you test a connector?

I got into the service menu and checked out all the test patterns. There is quite alot of test information available, I liked the all white and all black screens. I used the white to check for bad pixels - there were none. The all black shows how much light is still escaping - definitely need a screen border to mask this out. I'm not knocking the black levels of this projector, it's still very good for this price point. I definitely saw the right border cropping issue using the test pattern on VE and it is significant - the circle is cut and the picture looks like its shifted slightly to the right. I believe Benq should provide a firmware fix for this as it's unacceptable for anyone using the 480p inputs. What levels are you using on the YrB setting?

I need to get this all sorted out for Saturday as Christmas is at my place and I'm still working on my bar and doors. The HT room is about 90%complete. I'll post some pics when I'm done.

John:)

jeff, looks like you have room for some shakers under the chairs. I have similar chairs I got from JC Penney's. I prefer the suede or microfibre fabric for their coziness over leather though. The projector distance is fine. Should accomodate.

john, The first time I hooked up green and blue, I got them wrong since it was hard to see the ring color in my dark cave. Yes just turn it over. My recommendation to try 480i is to see if theres something wrong internally with the 7800 you got. Ahh..you made them? prob bad cables. :D

When you talk about black levels and a bright PJ such as the 7800, I feel that you need upwards of 3500:1 to see the equiv of a X1 at 2000:1 because theres just simply more light in the path. Having 2000:1 would "leak" out more light on the 7800 vs X1 simply because the light is more powerful. I may be wrong but my experiments with various flashlights tell me this is the right conclusion. Also the thread about high power PJs having the requirement of an iris is the same theory.

About the cropping - I have an ongoing ticket that will never be answered by Benq because they are discontinuing the 7800. I do feel that Benq should fix this but then look at their latest 5120 offering, its the same and it crops a lot! Its a common thing for Benq. But dont mind it too much because 1080i or DVI inputs crop less. I do not know how much cropping difference there is between DVI 480p and 1080i though. I dont have an upscaling DVI dvd player.

My YrB setting is something like 10 for brightness and 105 for contrast. Try dialing brightness down to get better blacks or add a CR220 filter and crank up the blue and green gains to 512 (read this from the 8700 thread).

Post some pics too!

I just got the Spiderman2 superbit version on a second release to stores. The pq is much much better than the regular WS version with nearly zero noise. The overal color has a red gain but thats ok..they made it that way.

Originally posted by johnny_marin

Could not see any pixelation at 14' back from a 100" diagonal screen (wall). Smooth picture - could make out a couple of very brief RB flashes but because the color is so far off I am not passsing judgement on this yet.
John:)

No SDE here either..this has never come across my mind even on a 150" diag 16:9 screen. I'm sitting about 14' back.

RB? you saw rainbow? well even if Benq lied about it (heh heh, ok not funny) its still 4x. Advertised is 5x I believe.

I'm going to move my first row seating back to at least 1.75x (14ft). The HT is 26ft long w/o the false wall and 23ft long w/the false wall. As for the seating and shakers, I have 8 shakers. The new screen will be made from Dazian Acoustically Transparent Screen Material. I bought that over a month ago and will make my own frame for it (it is 1.0 gain). I also still have my old Dalite 100" diagonal 4:3 screen that I may try to work into the design.

Well I figured out my component problem, it was the Pr cable - bad connection. Fixed it and everything is OK. I made a rookie error and did not check for continuity before adding the second connector on each cable.

After a rudimentary dial in of the picture using the 480i input, we watched part of Gladiator last night and the picture was outstanding - smooth with no pixels visible from 14 ft back and no RBs to be seen. I think I'm gonna have alot of fun with this projector.:D

John

Just to clarify, the SDE is by no means distracting, I just notice it sometimes at 1.5x seating distance. Certainly nothing like the grid I see on the LCDs at school.

Jeff, I think 1.75 will be great. If you have the room, you might as well use it. Make sure to post progress pics!

Speedy, I have yet to see a superbit DVD. I guess I really should check it out. I bought Spidy 2 for my wife's stocking, so maybe I will return it and get the sbit version. We never seem to watch the special features as we should anyway.

Happy Holidays all, or if you are so inclined, Merry Christmas Eve Eve.

tim

Originally posted by timjuliani

Happy Holidays all, or if you are so inclined, Merry Christmas Eve Eve.

tim

Right back at ya!

Spiderman 2 superbit looks great to my eyes, and from the reviews I've read comparing it to other superbit movies the PQ is less than what you'd see compared to most other Superbit movies.

I'll be picking up Blackhawk Down Superbit as I've heard the PQ and SQ is absolutely stunning. Can't wait!

Black Hawk Down it is! I might pick up the Fifth Element as well...

Originally posted by timjuliani

Speedy, I have yet to see a superbit DVD. I guess I really should check it out. I bought Spidy 2 for my wife's stocking, so maybe I will return it and get the sbit version. We never seem to watch the special features as we should anyway.
tim

tim,

By all means, return the WS edition and get the superbit version. I watched it and found much less "noise" and EE.

I compared this to the WS version I got from Netflix. Unless Netflix has some B-stock, I would say get the superbit version, esp for PJ's.

Originally posted by liquidh2o
Spiderman 2 superbit looks great to my eyes, and from the reviews I've read comparing it to other superbit movies the PQ is less than what you'd see compared to most other Superbit movies.


Yup I agree. However I think they purposedly made SM2 that way.

Jeff,
Your layout is almost identical to mine. I'm sitting about 13-14ft back. Picture is great.

I just framed my screen. I covered it with black felt and it works great. I'm using CimenaVision material with a 1.3 gain. If you would like to know how I constructed the screen frame and outer frame (with felt) let me know

Thanks idog, I built my first screen a few years ago and still have my plans. I also wrapped black felt around the outer frame. This time, I may not use a black border on the frame because the false wall will be covered with black fabric.

I'm going to move the seating back to 14', so that's good to hear! I also kept my previous 4:3 Dalite screen. I want to mount it for the occasional TV event but I need to figure out a way to conceal it.

Jeff,
Sounds like a good set up. Have you fired up the PJ yet?

Justed watched I-Robot on it...looked great.

I too have a false wall. I had issues with my speakers sitting behind the wall but made some adjustments. Hope yours sound okay if sitting behind the wall.

question about the pro-settings.
Which color temp are people using?

The settings don't seem to match the manual. I have Lamp, Warm, Normal, Cool, User 1 and 2. The manual says something different.

Is there a preference as far as which one to use?

The Lamp seems the brightest. Normal seems to be the best for movies.

Thoughts?

My guess is "lamp" is a mode used for testing the aging of the lamp. I too use normal. Nothing else really looks right except normal, and cinema gamma.

My guess is lamp would be used for presentation type displays. In any case, I agree.

Normal does appear to be a bit dimmer...I wonder what the true lumen output is in this mode.

Is your 7800 still not bright enough?

Normal here too... and Cinema gamma. Normal corresponds to 6500K I believe (but I could be wrong).

-T

Speedy,
It's bright enough, but I am running 480i. I want to see if the lumens go up when I go to 480p (looking for the right dvd player now)

T-Bone, I think you're right - 6500k in Normal.

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
My guess is "lamp" is a mode used for testing the aging of the lamp. I too use normal. Nothing else really looks right except normal, and cinema gamma.

Well I just went through Christmas with "lamp" mode on and cinema gamma and it is plenty bright. I calibrated using this mode and watched a half dozen movies. I too saw the discrepancy with the literature and what is displayed on the OSD. So now I'll have to go back and recalibrate using the normal mode. Had 20 people over yesterday and loved watching their jaws drop to the floor when they first saw the projector in action. :D

John

You guys are doing all my work for me;-) I'll be installing mine later this week and I'll be reading this thread from start to finish.

Originally posted by idog1969
Speedy,
I am running 480i. I want to see if the lumens go up when I go to 480p (looking for the right dvd player now)


From my experience and other threads for this subject, the PJ MUST deinterlace anything interlaced coming in before it gets to the DMD. Theres no such thing as a "deinterlaced" picture from a PJ. Its all progressive.

Thinking about this more, this is probably why Benq has two connectors. One that goes to the deinterlacer (RCA, 480i (Sil504???)) and one that goes direct to the DMD (progressive only BNC). By doing this they avoid any interference.

BTW I dont know if the deinterlacer is the Sil504 but according to the 8700 thread, thats what they got. However to bring in more confusion, some that also own the DVDO iScan HD, which is based on the same Sil504, turns out a better picture. I have no idea why..:confused:

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
From my experience and other threads for this subject, the PJ MUST deinterlace anything interlaced coming in before it gets to the DMD. Theres no such thing as a "deinterlaced" picture from a PJ. Its all progressive.

Thinking about this more, this is probably why Benq has two connectors. One that goes to the deinterlacer (RCA, 480i (Sil504???)) and one that goes direct to the DMD (progressive only BNC). By doing this they avoid any interference.

BTW I dont know if the deinterlacer is the Sil504 but according to the 8700 thread, thats what they got. However to bring in more confusion, some that also own the DVDO iScan HD, which is based on the same Sil504, turns out a better picture. I have no idea why..:confused:

Actually, the BNC connectors are not progressive-only... I am feeding my 480i DVD video into the BNC connectors.

-T

Thanks. Good to know. The manual lead me to believe it took 480p+ in BNC only.

I guess one is a digital connection and the other is an analog connection.

Speedy,

The manual was confusing because I too thought the BNCs were only for 480p and above. I decided to try it anyway with 480i just as a fluke.

Unless I am mistaken, the only digital connection is the DVI port. Even though HDTV (and DTV) signals are digital, they have to be converted to analog by the device (e.g. DVD, STB, etc) before being passed onto the component output lines.

-T

That is also what Im thinking..since DVI is digital why would the PJ have a RCA for "digital". Bu tby definition the YCbCr is for "DTV" but the 8700 folks also think its for 480i while the BNC is for 480p+. Anyway this works for you, so it works in advantage for the pip/pop functions.

OK, I'm going back to the stone ages here. I'm only going to use mine for DVD when it's finally installed on Wednesday (If all goes as planned). I have a Panny CP72 and I plan to use the BNC connectors. I think I'll be fine until I decide to get an HD tuner from the Sat company. Correct?

Originally posted by Jeff Hovis
OK, I'm going back to the stone ages here. I'm only going to use mine for DVD when it's finally installed on Wednesday (If all goes as planned). I have a Panny CP72 and I plan to use the BNC connectors. I think I'll be fine until I decide to get an HD tuner from the Sat company. Correct?

You'll be okay... you'll get a very good picture with the BNC inputs. Even HD on the BNC inputs look fantastic. I demo'd the Samsung T451 OTA tuner for several days.

-T

Thanks T-Bone, I've had this thing sitting in a closet since mid October. You guys have really given this pj a pretty good shakedown.

I too thought you could only run 480p through the BNC connections based on the literature...I may try that out.

I am looking into dvd players with the Faroudja chip. So I'll be sending 480P through BNC. I'm curious if I see any improvement over my panny480i.

Anyone know which one is used in the 7800? I know is not DCDi.

-T

I'm running my DVD through the DVI and my HDTivo through the BNCs and I get 1080i or 720p through the Tivo just fine. So you can run digital through the BNCs. It looks great too!!
Rick

It just seems economical for them to use the same deinterlacer as in the 8700..that is, the Silicon Image's 504.

Open it.. :D

Thanks Speedy!

One last question for all: how does one pronounce "BenQ" ?

-T

T-Bone.

It's Ben, and the letter Q. Ben-Q.

idog1969,

Thanks. That was exactly how I was pronouncing it having never heard the name myself.

-T

Speedy

I believe it uses the same deinterlacer as the 8700. I read that in a review once.

After looking at the pj in 480i for about a month, I'm not convinced the built in deinterlacer does a great job. The image is too soft in my mind and there are a lot of motion artifacts on screen. Too many to blame the transfer.

So, I just purchased the Phillips Q50 DVD player with the Faroudja chip. I should have it in a couple of days and will post my findings.

BTW - Not trying to sell anything here but I got an awesome deal on this DVD player. If anyone is interested, contact me as there are more available.

You can also "pronounce" "BenQ" as "Acer" or "Packard Bell". I still have my fingers crossed on the quality. It does seem that the quality of the past is not evident on the 7800.

For non-HD I'm awaiting the Oppo upconversion that uses Faroudja but it may have that now-famed macro block issue.

For HD I'm still watching the Avel Linkplayer2 threads.

idog,
I also have the Perfect Mounts system. The screws and spacers aren't long enough. The package said BQ8700. The round fan on the bottom that extends outward must not be the same on the 8700. Now, I have to go and look for some screws. HD has a crappy selection of metric stuff.


Originally posted by idog1969
Perfectmounts.com has good mounts for the 7800. I bought one there. If you get one though, make sure they include M4 screws for the pj mount and include 3/4" spacers

Anyone else have a problem with overheating? I had the pj mounted and was getting the screen level when the lamp went out and I noticed the red light flashing. The manual says a green with the red flashing three times indicates the unit is too hot. I'm using the perfect mounts system. It has a plate that fits over the back and aligns with the mounting holes. The mounting plate is flush with what I think is the fan. Anyone else have this problem?

Purchased my mount from mandarax who posts here on this forum. Great quality mount, great price, easy to set up and you need a strong mount to hold this 17 pound FP:D

John

Originally posted by Jeff Hovis
Anyone else have a problem with overheating? I had the pj mounted and was getting the screen level when the lamp went out and I noticed the red light flashing. The manual says a green with the red flashing three times indicates the unit is too hot. I'm using the perfect mounts system. It has a plate that fits over the back and aligns with the mounting holes. The mounting plate is flush with what I think is the fan. Anyone else have this problem?

I had the exact same thing happen the first time I fired it up. I powered the FP down, waited awhile (half hour), and tried again. Never happened since and we have had our gas fireplace running so it has been toasty warm in the room at times. The fan has kicked into high gear because of this but no problems.

John

John,
Thanks, that's interesting. I mounted my pj in the same fashion as I did my previous X1. First: everything was centered with a laser and then I simply powered up the pj. I marked the area of the image and hung the screen. I think my image is too low. Has anyone tilted the pj up and used the keystone adjustment? My lens is centered about 7" from the ceiling.

Jeff,

No problems here, but I bought a Chief Mount and the mounting plate is separated from the 7800 with either 3/4" or 1" spacers. According to Chief, the RPA-560 was made explicitly for the 7800.

-T

The spacers are my problem. I originally ordered a mount for the IF4805 and exchanged the mounting plate for the 7800. They just forgot the screws and spacers. The orange store had the screws, but didn't have any nylon spacers. I ran into that another time and had to go to the blue store.

It's me again...guess what, I finally installed the pj...now the questions. I didn't see this one in the thread. I slipped the BNC connectors over my component cable and it didn't work. It works fine in the regular jacks w/o the BNCs.

Originally posted by Jeff Hovis
It's me again...guess what, I finally installed the pj...now the questions. I didn't see this one in the thread. I slipped the BNC connectors over my component cable and it didn't work. It works fine in the regular jacks w/o the BNCs.

Just got finished with I, Robot... good film.

Jeff, when you say "It works fine in the regular jacks w/o the BNCs", do you mean that it works when connecting your component cables to the non-HD component inputs?

I attached the included BNC adapters to my component cables, and then connected the cables to the BNC inputs. You have to make sure you select the right source via the remote, or via the 7800 menu (Display -> Source -> Component HD).

-T

Thanks T,
My plugs don't fit snugly into the BNC adapters. They are actually quite loose and won't slide all the way into the jack. I think this is the problem

OK, now I have them in well enough to get progressive through my DVD player. RIght out of the box, the picture is beautiful. I didn't get to the audio. I have cables everywhere.

Jeff,
A few days away from the thread...

I had the same problem with the perfect mount. In fact, they re-sent me the screws (M4) and they were still too short.

I went to Home Depot and bought 2" M4 screws, 1" spacers and some washers and that did the trick.

I called them and told them the proper sizes for everything.

-------

I hooked up my BNC's the other night. The component cables don't slip all the way on. They don't snap on either...just sort of slip on and it doesn't feel like they will stay on but they do. Seems like you sorted that one out though since you're seeing a pic.

So I hooked up my new PhilipsDVDQ50 DVD player with the Faroudja chip. I'm going progressive in, via component cables/BNC and the pic is must better. Clearer (or less soft) and apparently brighter.

Having looked at this pj for a couple of months running 480i in, I noticed a difference right away.

The HD Comp says I'm running 525P.

I will say that like everyone here, my first impression of this unit is very good. Compared to my X1 which it replaced, the colors and of cours the res is MUCH better.

I have some self inflicted issues to now work out. When the HT was originally designed, the screen size was going to be 80x45 and I based the distance on a SP4805. With the 7800, that means that my ceiling outlet and the conduit with the cables is in FRONT of the pj (probably 2ft for the conduit and at least 1ft for the outlet). The cables aren't in the way of the lens but it doesn't look good at all. Doh! I thought I was being sooo smart by putting in that outlet and running the conduit. The plan was to come out above the pj and wrap around the mount and then plug into the pj. I'm going back to HD to get some of the flat conduit that is used to conceal wires on walls and ceilings. With that stuff, I can run the cable a short distance to the left and then 90-degrees back toward the rear of the pj (L-shaped). Does anyone know where I can buy an iec cord with a 90-degree plug? That would help lower to profile of the plug going into the ceiling outlet.

Jeff,
Are you fully zoomed in? I didn't think the throw was that different on both pj's...
I wouldn't use the keystone correction. It will distort the image.

Jeff,

My lens is centered about 8 inches from the ceiling and the top of the screen is about 18 inches from the ceiling. I'm throwing a 100 inch diagonal picture so from the calculations that's about where the offset should be.

John

Originally posted by Jeff Hovis
Has anyone tilted the pj up and used the keystone adjustment? My lens is centered about 7" from the ceiling.

I found that the 7800 blurs the image more than the X1 when using keystoning. I'm using setting of 3.

SpeedyHTPC,

Just curious, when you spoke of a soft image in earlier posts, was keystone used?

-T

Yes. But I wouldnt say keystone was the culprit because I also said my HDTV was clear. I do however notice the image is distorted more (you can make out vertical lines, not sharpness).

The internal grid would show a good example of what Im talking about.

Distort is a better word than blur.

After looking at it again this morning, I think I'll leave the screen and pj height where they are. I won't use the keystone adjustment.

Well I finally got my projector and agree that it is a significant step up from the X1. My existing mount has worked perfectly with the custom cut 7800 plate, though I will probably drop the height a bit. Brightness, contrast and colour are the big benefits. Rainbows are not 100% gone, but are virtually non-existent. I have to look very hard to see SDE and I have exceptionally good vision. Quieter than the X1 is nice. I just wish it wasn't so big...

I have a Samsung HD935 DVD player (called the 931 in the US I believe) and have compared both component and DVI and find the DVI far superior. Component looked to soft but was otherwise pretty good. This player has the Faroujda chip only for DVI so this is probably not surprising.

I live in Spain so will be watching mostly PAL television and DVDs. My DVD player can output DVI at 576, 625 and 720 but 576 looks the best. The other resolutions produce visible banding and sharpening effects that are quite undesirable, but I'm not sure if they are coming from the player or projector.

I've calibrated with DVE and can confirm that the player passes BTB and I believe I have gotten a pretty good greyscale, though I will need more time to see if there are problems with the whites and blacks.

I'm currently projejcting on the wall but am planning to resurrect my homemade sintra/forex screen with light grey paint and black borders. Should be a killer combination...

While poking around I found a couple of PowerStrip settings posted that I don't believe have been posted here. I swapped my HTPC for a DVD player so I can't vouch for their quality, but I imagine there are at least a couple of HTPC/7800 users. I do miss the image quality of the HTPC, but I don't miss just about anything else about it.

1024x576=1024,32,112,152,576,4,6,14,47527,2050

1024x576=1024,22,112,162,576,4,6,14,47625,274

I have a new question that may have been address already...I'm still looking. I have an HK7200 which has onscreen menus. Once it's all set up, I don't really need it. However, I do like the feature of seeing my volume displayed when I change it. My equipment is in a separate equip room and I can't see it. Does anyone run their processor/receiver into the 7800? On the old X1, I believe I connected an S-vid cable from the CP72 to the 7200 and then another S-vid to the X1. I also remember the X1 automatically detecting an input source and switching over to it (we had a CDG karaoke player connected via composite). This pj may do that also, I just haven't had a chance to really dive into it. Currently, I have a separate s-vid cable running from the 7200 which is just running across the room and not enclosed in conduit (it must go). Now that it's finally installed, my vacation is over. I used 12/23-1/2 trying to get the HT completed and I'm still not done.

Jeff,

I'm not done either (well, almost done) but I do have my system up and running:D

I have a Denon AVR3802 and I ran composite, S-vid, component and DVI cables to the ceiling mounted projector location. With the Denon it only provides screen menus on composite or s-video. The 7800 will not autodetect (at least it hasn't for me) as you have to go into the display menu and choose a source input. So when tuning my audio I first have to change the source on the projector and since my receiver is the only thing running on s-video the menu screen automatically pops up. I don't get any volume display when showing a DVD (component) or HD (satellite DVI).

Hope this helps.

John:)

Thanks John,
After I'm satisfied with the setup of the speakers, I'll just remove the s-vid cable. As for seeing the volume level, I'll have to try something else. It's a minor inconvenience for a better picture.


Originally posted by johnny_marin
Jeff,

I'm not done either (well, almost done) but I do have my system up and running:D

I have a Denon AVR3802 and I ran composite, S-vid, component and DVI cables to the ceiling mounted projector location. With the Denon it only provides screen menus on composite or s-video. The 7800 will not autodetect (at least it hasn't for me) as you have to go into the display menu and choose a source input. So when tuning my audio I first have to change the source on the projector and since my receiver is the only thing running on s-video the menu screen automatically pops up. I don't get any volume display when showing a DVD (component) or HD (satellite DVI).

Hope this helps.

John:)

jay_madrid

what are these 'PowerStrip' settings?

PowerStrip is a PC program which allows you to get unusual resolutions like 1024x576 out of your computer. This means you can get bit perfect output and bypass the projector's scaler. The end result is generally far superior video quality compared to most DVD players. There is an entire forum dedicated to Home Theater PC's here at AVS...

Speedy, you seem to have a lot of experience with the 7800. We are neighbors. I live out on the Delta. Just got mine. Trying to figure out the difference between the component input, DVI and the bnc inputs. Do they all go the same way in the projector or do some bypass some sort of scaling function? The lit is not very clear, actually it doesn,t tell you. Wish there was a schematic for this thing. Any info apprectiated.

I really dont have more experience on the 7800. I just post more. But I have a Toshiba TP-650 LCD (96) and Infocus X1 DLP (2001) and now the 7800. Just applying everything I learned from the previous PJs on the 7800 + AVS forum knowledge.

If youre near the delta, youre about 2hrs from me, near Antioch?

All the inputs has to scale. But the trick is to find that input using powerstrip and HTPC to avoid any scaling by feeding it somewhere near 1024x576. I believe jay_madrid has more experience on that. Havocsi is another PAL user that has a lot of experience with it.

I talked to Benq support about the various controls in the menus on the 7800. They dont have much info. Its all back with the engineers in Taiwan. Unfortunately I dont think any manufacturer will show a schematic of their PJ.

Do you have any specifics on scaling issues? I dont see any problems with scaling, from my HDTV viewing. It looks great.

Actually, I' in Brentwood. No scaling issues yet. I was just reading all the posts (and there are a lot) and was seeing everyone plugging into various inputs and trying to understand their rational. From the literature, it seems to me the DVD goes into the component and the DTV box goes into the RGB bnc but then again I saw a post that was pluggin the DVD into the RGB BNC. I hate crawlling in the attic to run cables and just want to make sure I plug everything in the right place. I'm not ready to fire the PJ up yet. Still finishing the room. Got the room taped and mudded today.

Originally posted by T-Bone
Just an FYI since I said I would post them. These default settings resulted in a picture that was more pleasing than when I cal'd the 7800 using Avia. Naturally, all 7800s are different.

Brightness: 20
Contrast: 16
Color: 36
Tint: 15
Sharpness: 0
Filters: 3
Red: 15
Green: 15
Blue: 17
Yellow: 13

Today, I realized that I haven't even looked at any of the OSD settings of this pj other than inverting the image for ceiling mounting. I assume I'm using the default setting that T-Bone posted above. I guess that I'll get around to setting this thing once I'm finished with the room. I also saw some posts about brightness settings like normal, lamp cinema... Is normal the default?

Jeff,

My lamp setting was on LAMP from the factory which I found out produces a cooler picture than normal. NORMAL is the setting that I work with for all inputs. What I like about this unit is that you can save 3 user settings for each input if you want to experiment.

Those settings that T-bone posted I haven't tried yet. Also need to know which input he is talking about.

John

Jeff, John:

A Note about the settings I posted: they were stored in memory location #3. Memory locations #1 matched memory location #2, but were different than memory location #3. #1 and #2 looked good, but were not nearly as good as #3. You may want to verify that you guys have different settings in the different memory locations.

-T

Originally posted by rtabel
Actually, I' in Brentwood. No scaling issues yet. I was just reading all the posts (and there are a lot) and was seeing everyone plugging into various inputs and trying to understand their rational. From the literature, it seems to me the DVD goes into the component and the DTV box goes into the RGB bnc but then again I saw a post that was pluggin the DVD into the RGB BNC. I hate crawlling in the attic to run cables and just want to make sure I plug everything in the right place. I'm not ready to fire the PJ up yet. Still finishing the room. Got the room taped and mudded today.

Hmm it doesnt have to be strict like that. Im mainly going through components for DVD and DVI for HDTV just because they provided DVI cables and my HD box has DVI.

If I had my way I'd go all DVI with a switch.

I calibrated mine tonight and changed the lamp settings. It looks very good now. I also noticed that my CP72 was set to: Progressive Out: Disabled. I changed it to Enabled. I don't know if that really activated anything or not. The manual doesn't seem to say much. It never really mattered with the old X1 because I used an S-vid cable and the Faroujda chip in the pj.

Welly, welly, welly...no I didn't just watch "A Clockwork Orange", but it is on order. I will give the nod to Speedy because I have noticed the cropping that he picked up while my pj was still in it's box in a closet. I still think it is a definite improvement over the old X1 and tonight, my wife actually said: "The picture on this projector is a lot better, how much more did it cost?". The answer: Just after it's release in 2002, I paid full price for my X1 in and the margin was a quite a bit smaller than it is/was for others. Ahh, sweet satisfaction.

My wife was also skeptical about the upgrade from the X1 but she now appreciates the improved picture quality and larger size. However, the lack of automatic input switching is a real pain...

Yes! I agree about the auto-switching. I don't like that.

Just picked up a Sony 875 480p DVD player (component only) that replaced my 5-year old 480i Sony 530D.

I used to think the 7800 did a fine job with 480i from my old Sony... but that old player was crap :) The 7800 does a much better job with 480p from the new player. Less motion artifacts, and the image is much, much sharper.

-T

Did you all see the announcement of the 7700? HD2+ 720p for $3499 MSRP. Wonder what that willl translate to on the street. Alas, this is the life we have chosen...

That means in 1.5 - 2yrs, we'll all be buying that or a similar model for what we paid for the 7800s.

Originally posted by timjuliani
Did you all see the announcement of the 7700? HD2+ 720p for $3499 MSRP. Wonder what that willl translate to on the street. Alas, this is the life we have chosen...

T-Bone,
I too just changed over to a newer progressive scan dvd player. You really can tell the difference. Although I wouldn't call the image 'sharp', it is much sharper than running 480i.
Just watched Collateral. Very dark movie but the 7800 showed it off well.

Regarding the DVD sharpness with this projector, I just watched Spiderman 2 Superbit version on the weekend through a crappy Philips 642 DVD player using progressive component and the picture quality was outstanding (along with the DTS audio track). The softness which seems to vary with each DVD I play (and could be a problem with the Philips) almost completely disappeared, not quite as sharp as HD but close. And the dithering was greatly reduced during fast motion scenes. It seems to me that digital compression encoding has alot to do with how well this FP performs. I also feel the projector scaler/deinterlacer is not that good so a quality DVD player is required to minimize this issue. I'm looking for a good DVI upconverting DVD player to take care of this issue and minimize any D/A conversions. Has anyone found out if we could feed this projector a 1024X576 output and make it work? That would eliminate the scaler/deinterlacer problem (in my mind) and make this projector really shine.

John:)

John,

The Momitsu V880N outputs 1024 x 576, but I am not certain it does that for only PAL DVDs, or for NTSC DVDs too.

-T

T,

Looking at the manual under electrical characteristics it identifies color system compatibility with PAL-M and PAL-N sources but under Resolution it identified 480P, 720P and 1080i compatibility (along with VGA, SVGA and XGA) but no 576P. Since this native resolution is PAL specific is there anyone in that area of the world that can identify if the PE7800 syncs directly to the 576P resolution and if so what what PAL system you are using? I know about the Momitsu V880 series and their custom resolution capabilities but has anyone been able to make it work?

Thanks, John

My bad... the Momitsu outputs 576p only on the Europe model.

-T

... the display readout in the lower right corner reads "525p." Anyone know why 525p is displayed?

Just curious...

-T

Because 480p is 525p to the PE7800 who speaks PAL.

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
Because 480p is 525p to the PE7800 who speaks PAL.

Thanks Speedy.

I thought PAL was 576? Also, if the 7800 treats 480p as 525p, and the DLP chip is 576p, is the 7800 only using 525 of the available 576 lines?

-T

Originally posted by T-Bone
Thanks Speedy.

I thought PAL was 576? Also, if the 7800 treats 480p as 525p, and the DLP chip is 576p, is the 7800 only using 525 of the available 576 lines?

-T

T-Bone,

480p standard is 525P total. 576P standard is 625P total. I know this because my crappy Philips DVD player can output both NTSC and PAL resolution using a Region 1 (North America) DVD. I tried the PAL resolution with the Philips and it shows 625P on the 7800. Both pictures are the same size so I would have to assume that the 7800 has to scale 480 to 576 but does not require this step with a PAL source. The problem with my DVD player is it's internal scaling to PAL resolution sucks worse than feeding the 7800 a 480P source, losts of combing and EE, in my mind completely unwatchable. I haven't tried the interlaced mode so that may be better. What I really want to try is a DVI DVD player that outputs 576P at 60Hz. That would be close to 1:1 pixel mapping and if the source signal is good, should improve the picture quality by bypassing the scaler/deinterlacer in the 7800. Anyone have a suggestion for a DVI DVD player that can output 576P?

Thanks, John

Originally posted by T-Bone
Thanks Speedy.

I thought PAL was 576? Also, if the 7800 treats 480p as 525p, and the DLP chip is 576p, is the 7800 only using 525 of the available 576 lines?

-T

Given that the DMD is native 1024x576, I'd say yes. Your 480 material doesnt sit aligned with the top and bottom does it? Mine doesnt. Looks to be centered vertically.

Theres no loss technically but from the cropping that Benq "features" in the 7800, I dont know if you actually lose any resolution. You may be feeding it 1024x576 via HTPC but who knows if you are getting that resolution back? I dont know if this is avoidable at all.

If you ask me, this is a low point of this pj. Compare this to the X1, if you fed the X1 anything above 480p, the Pixelworks scales only, nothing is cropped, into it's 800x450 panel in 16:9 mode. If you use 4:3 mode and 800x600 with panamorph, you get 16:9 back.

I believe DVI with HTPC is possibly the best feed you can give for the best and fullest picture with minimum cropping.

I am not sure why it is implemented this way..is it a Benq thing or is it the way Matterhorns are. My question about cropping to IF5700 owners are inconclusive. They dont know what I'm talking about.

ok I must ask...what is cropping ...sorry for such a newb question but I am not sure what it is...does anyone have a pic of it? thanks!

Brian

Originally posted by Brian Fineberg
ok I must ask...what is cropping ...sorry for such a newb question but I am not sure what it is...does anyone have a pic of it? thanks!

Brian

Cropping is the deliberate loss of resolution at the edges due to the way the scaling has been implemented in the FP. So, with the 7800 there is significant cropping in certaiin modes such as 480P. You lose anywhere from 5 to 10 or more pixels in the horizontal and vertical edges of the screen. Read earlier posts in this thread by Speedy and you will get a better understanding of the issue.

John

so that is strictly using the players progressive chip? so If I am semnding it a 480 signal it is ok?

thanks for the answer by the way!

Brian

Brian

If you have DVE or the like, you can see the differences by displaying the grids.

I have avia...which patterns should I look under

thanks!

Brian

Any grid really..

Once you have a grid up in 480p, for example, note how much of the grid you can see. Then with that screen on pause, flip to 720p or 1080i on your dvd player. Note how much of the grid you can see changes.

I dont have an upconverting dvd player with DVI, I've only got component. Someone said that DVI has less or no cropping. Its hard for me to say since the only DVI feed I have is HDTV. I bet it crops also.

cropping != overscan.

Even the "great" AE700 that just started shipping has cropping problems over HDMI with v1.05 of the firmware. Oh well. Supposedly HDMI is better than DVI.


8) HDMI Issues . As already noted, you must have firmware 1.05 or higher to resolve picture cropping problems over HDMI, as well as other issues such as white flash. Early reports say cropping is still a problem on firmware 1.05 though.

great thanks for your help speedy....if I can rip myself away fromwacthing movie after movie..on this thing...especially now that I am snowed in I will try that tonight

Thanks again!

Brian

ok I tried the test patterns and I saw absluty no difference in any of the output modes....is the overscan teh start of the picture on the sides? I notcice the light from the projector and where the picture actually starts is about 2 inches difference on each side.

Really to tell you the truth I dont care in the least...if that is the worst part of this projector so be it..I would much rather have that than VB or somthing like that. The image quality on this thing is so theater like I cant believe it and I have over 200 hours on it now

Brian

Brian, I know what you mean. Watched the Amazing Race last night and some of the scenery was fantastic. Are you using strictly DVI output from your DVD player? If so, there may not be much of a cropping issue but I can't test it as I only have component at the moment. In progressive component there is severe cropping on the right hand side as seen by using one of the grid test patterns in Video Essentials. In 480i the cropping is minimal. You may not notice this if all you do is watch movies rather than tinker with the picture like I do.:D I'm still in the research mode for a cheap upscaling DVI DVD player. Once I have that I can then test the cropping issue with that output.

John;)

acually no I am just using the component through the BNC port....I dont have a dvi dvd player...and my cable box has a different dvi output than the PJ has input dvi-d vs dvi-i or somthing...so i wasnt able to have it connected that way

Brian