This will be my personal preliminary imprsssion with the I-O DATA AVEL LINKPLAYER2(AVLP2).As a owner of Momitsu V880,V880N had been ranked first in my waiting list of DVD player.Actually, I lived in Taiwan and the company of Momitsu is also in Taiwan. So, it would by very convinent to buy V880N and get service.Personally, I had been very satisfied with V880's picture quality even with so many bugs which most had been fixed by firmware upgrade.

But as a network-based dvd player,the AVLP2 beat the V880N with its new Sigma chip with USB2.0,high speed wireless lan and even lower price.

I just received it for 3 days and I did not have much time to test it(I worked W1-W6 8pm to 9:30pm). So this would be a very preliminary report. I am not good in English. So the response to questions may be incomplete or delayed.

The first part of my expreience will be the player's basic function and building quality. Later,maybe I'll tried to comment on its picture quality comparing to V880.


Just like most Japanes products, the package,the manual and the remote all seemed built with a better quality than V880 even the player was made in China. The sense and response of the REMOTE is better than V880's to me. Both V880 and AVLP2 use EPO's dvd-rom with different models.

The software was called "AVEL LINK SERVER". I had installed it in 2 PCs one was WIN98SE and the other WINXP SP1. Even, it was Japanese,the installation of the software was very smooth without any problem in my Chinese system. I did not expreience any Java problem. The "AVEL LINK SERVER" did not include internet access or any itune-like function as in V880.

The main interface in AVLP2 included:
main setup
lan setup
wireless setup
time
upgrade
dvd player setup

It is very easy to setup lan or wireless just like ususal PC.

It also had a video toggle button like V880.
It supported :
composite and S
D4 480I, D4 480P, D4 720P,D4 1080I( D4 means component)
DVI 480P,720P,1080I,640X480,800X600,1024X768,and 842x480 for plasma
TV

The response to button of video toggle seemed more rapid than V880. And I did not expreience any problem with video toggle which I had expreienced in my V880 initally.
Also, to now I had not expreience any abnormal freeze needing unplug the power cable as happening often in my inital V880

Yes,with the player's DVD-ROM,you can only get component output. The DVI output can only be achived via networked hard disc either in your PC or portable USB2.0 hard disc. In the FAQ of AVLP2 in I-O DATA webpage,they say because it's not HDCP compliant ,so the DVD-VIDEO(or the dvd-rom in the player) can not output from DVI. Anyway, when you rip the dvd to hard disc, you still can get DVI output.

Yes,it can just play VOB file not IFO file.When you push the next chaper button, it skip to next VOB.But if you want to keep the chapter serach fucntion,you can still keep it by using like "SAMRTRIPPER" which could rip your DVD to hard disc by chaper, then you can get a VIDEO-TS file with ex.
20 VOBS if your DVD have 20 chapter.Of course,no menu.

To be continued.

Wow...great to finally get some info on this new player with better network capability thanks to the new Sigma chip.

Can you comment on the picture quality relative to the Momitsu (essentially comparing chipsets).

Are you saying that this machine will only allow a DVD to be played via component?

What was the cost of the unit and where can people in North America get one?

Mind me asking real quick how much this bad boy costs/will cost?

We owe TOFU some thanx, people have posted recently asking about this player and not much new info turned up due to its newness.

Thanx TOFU!

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Mind me asking real quick how much this bad boy costs/will cost?

I saw some post on this forum where someone got a reply from, I believe, the factory stating a price around $300.

In the iodata website you can download an english language manual on the AVPL2/DVDLA

It states in section 2.4 of the manual:

2.4 Video Size Limitation
• Up to 2 Giga Byte: AVI (DivX and Xvid)
• Up to 4 Giga Byte: MPEG/WMV (FAT32)

I guess this means my 3 hour 3gig DivX file won't play? Or is this just a limitation in FAT32 file systems?

This seems rather limiting.

All the best,
Ricardo

US version will not have wireless or dvi unfortunately

There are two models. The first model to be launched in the USA (November) does not have DVI or Wifi, then following that iodata will launch the DVI+Wifi version for USA. So there will be a high-end and low-end version of the product. I am looking to pickup the lowend product. Cause my little Panasonic AE100 projector will only make use of the component 480p signal.

This information is from this thread (from iodata email replies to AVSforum members):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=446614&pagenumber=3

All the best,
Ricardo

I can live without the wireless. 10/100 wired is fine and for folks who really want it to be wireless can always purchase an 802.11 b/g bridge. However if the North American version is missing the DVI... That's a huge stickler for me personally. Not sure about other folks here.

EDIT: Just read RicardoD response and the other thread. Guess I need to hold out a bit.

Originally posted by ZZtop
We owe TOFU some thanx, people have posted recently asking about this player and not much new info turned up due to its newness.

Thanx TOFU!

Um, it's TUFU...

...and yes, thanks TUFU! Too bad about DVI only working with limited file types, though. That really makes it a non-starter for me.

Later,
Bill

does anyone know if the hi-end version will have L:

1-custom resolutions?
2-upscaling thru dvi?
3-secret menus or macrovision off?

basically will it have the same features as momitsu.......

Hi Tufu,

I also lives in Taiwan, and thinking about buying either the V880N, and the I0 Data AVel.... however I am having trouble to find a place selling this unit. Would you please give me some advice? It is a pitty that the IO Data machine can't out DVD to DVI via it's interal DVD-rom.... Hope there will be a firmware to fix this.... thank you for the help in advance!!

To all your questions:

1.The list price is 29800(Japanese dollar) with a 15% discount using the
store's point card. So, it should be around 25500.
My friend bought it from the BIC Camera electronic store.

2.Until now. I had just used a I-O DATA portable USB2.0 hard disc to test the player's function. Yes, it only supported FAT16 and FAT32 system. So, I can not copy a MPEG file more than 4G to the hard disc. I had not try to access the computer yet. But I think a file in MPEG more than 4g will not be recognized by AVLP2. I don't have a file of divx more than 2G to test now.

3.Unlike momitsu v880, there are no custom resolution,secret menu to change the region or macrovision off and brightness control . Who know,maybe someday one can find the magic button combinations to access the possibe? secret menu.
Yes, the player can upscale the component or DVI as you can see in the above listed resolution. My projector Mitsubishi D1208 can accept and display all of listed resolutions except DVI 1080i.

In recent 3 days, I had placed 3 dvd moves,several mcrosoft WMVHD demo,
one large digital picture file and one mpg file (1080i) converted from 1080i
TS movie in the USB2.0 hard disc.

One of my important purpose to buy this player is its ability to play WMV9.
But it was sad to say,I am not satisfied with this. All of the WMVHD demo downloaded from microsoft web site played with some lag or stuttering. And most disappointing, there were no sound out from digital. I don't konw
where the problems are.I'd like to find other's experience. I had ordered 2 WMVHD discs which will be available within one week. I'd try to test it again and see what will happen.
Also, the player can only play WMVHD 720P but not 1080p.

When I played the 1080i mpg file,it is flawlessl and beautigul just like seeing the progrms with my BSD(1080i).

Later, I will comment on several other bugs of this player.

Hello TUFU,

Regarding upscaling, I think the original question is meant if the player upscales DVD-Video (DVD Disc) to DVI or component. It is stated in the spec that the player won't upscale DVD to DVI. I think what you mentioned is only for video files in external HDD.

Also, the reason why the player won't play the sound of WMV HD must be a limitation of Sigma Design EM8620L chip. WMV HD usually comes with "Windows Media Audio9 Professional" as audio codec, typically as in Microsoft's demo you tried, but the EM8620L chip can't decode that codec. Three Japanese players (IO Data Avel LinkPlayer, Buffalo LinkTheater PC-P3LAN/DVD, Transtechnology DVX-600) all have this same problem, that is simply because all are using the same Sigma Design chip.
Someday, we should be able to get WMV HD fully capable player at $300 price range, but not this year.

Thanks for your comment especially the audio problem of WMVHD.
I am not familiar with the codec thing. So, I'd like to know whether the WMVHD disc will have the same problem?
I had read one man's expreience that I can rip the WMVHD disc to hard disc only with the movies in 720p which will be less than 4G. Is it possible after considerig the DRM?

Regarding the upsaling ability, I mean when I played DVD disc with the player ,I can toggle with the vide button between its D4 480I 480P 720P and 1080i just like the V880 do but not from DVI (no singal when set to DVI resolution ).While playing files in hard disc, you can choose either component or DVI output.

So you bought it from Japan, no wonder i can't find it in Taiwan.... but still many thx for sharing the info!!

There are receivers that will decode Windows Media Audio9 Professional over SPDIF I believe. It is once again a shame but what can you expect with M$$FT.

A real bummer that the sigma doesn't decode, that is very strange, I think it is mere a matter of software implementation? (I mean the chip has only recently emerged, not all functions are implemented yet..) I'll go check sigma website..

Still my V880N plays pretty good... but no wmv9, guess noone does beside the htpc addicts..

My only requirements are 480p (the horror!) since my AE100 projector only supports that resolution.

Ideally I should build another PC and make it a MCE2005 HTPC and stuff it in my stereo cabinet, but I just don't have the money for that now.

I want this I/O device to become my "media center extender" so that I can watch my recorded video, and archived DivX/XviD content on my projector in the family room (along with my digital photo albums). I hope the server software I have to install isn't too buggy.

My HT receiver can take PCM, DD, or DTS audio. Am I correct in thinking this IOdata player will convert MP3, WMA or AAC into PCM digital audio output so that my receiver will understand it. Currently all I have is a digital audio connection to my receiver from my DVD player.

The other thing I am wondering about is if my wife is downstairs watching a DivX file and I am on the PC which is serving the file, that it doesn't slow my PC down to the point of being useless. (i.e. I want to surf the net, do PC stuff, while simultaneously serving video to my wife/kids downstairs)

$250 for iodata link player

or

$180 (for MCD2005 + remote) + $300 (linksys media extender) = $480 which is starting to get close to just building my own HTPC with MCE2005


All the best,
Ricardo

Ricardo - how much it slows down your PC is really more of a function of how fast your PC is, than anything to do with the DVD player.

One question for TUFU - will the player output any kind of signal out of the DVI from a DVD? I am thinking of whether you can get 480i or 480p digitally, rather than 720p or 1080i. Thanks!

Later,
Bill

@RicardoD

FWIW I am in the exact same boat. Would really like to be able to access all of my Xvids and Vorbis audio as well as HD capped from the MyHD, plus use it for normal DVD playback but I don't want to set the HTPC in the living room.

I would assume if the bundled software only directs the player to the file on the HHD then the computer just starts to send the info via LAN, it shouldn't be any more resource heavy than copying a file over the LAN.

-Suntan

I don't know, when I transfer 4G over the LAN the PC does bog down a bit and it's a 2.4GHz machine with 1G of mem on a 100M LAN. The question is, is copying a 4G file as intensive as serving a 4G file? My assumption is no but how much less intensive is it? I'm sure that physical memory pays a pretty good part.

Originally posted by Tbone2000
I don't know, when I transfer 4G over the LAN the PC does bog down a bit and it's a 2.4GHz machine with 1G of mem on a 100M LAN. The question is, is copying a 4G file as intensive as serving a 4G file? My assumption is no but how much less intensive is it? I'm sure that physical memory pays a pretty good part.

'Copying' and 'Accessing' a 4GB file, or any file of any size for that matter, is indeed two completely different things in terms of being machine intensive. It is much easier to 'access' a 4GB media file versus copying due to the fact that when you are copying a file, the machine is sending the COMPLETE file, assuming 100Mbps or higher, at a much higher transfer rate than needed to actually 'play' or 'access' the file.

I figured it was something along those lines.

All of the WMVHD demo downloaded from microsoft web site played with some lag or stuttering.

Which demos were you using? We'll try them in the lab...

does it automatically squeeze 4:3 material?

and finally are the demo's the same as the extreme disks? In other words, will I be able to play the T2 disk in HD?

I must postpone further comments on AVLP2 because I had read Japanese very hard in recent 2 days to find out any solutions or upgrades for this player's problem.
1.There are several firmware upgrades during this period. I'll upgrade to the newest today and see what happened.

2.There is a new software"avel link advanced server 1.5" which someone told me that it could solve the audio problem of playing WMV HD.

3.Also, with the new software, there were no 4G limitation that means if you use a NTFS system it may be up to 2TB.

http://www.iodata.jp/support/qanda/answer/s12198.htm

4.One of my friend told me he did not experience lag problem with WMV HD.
I had test "amazon,dolphin,T2, caves,and the discovers" so far.

To Ursa:
The DVI support started from 480p not 480i just like V880.So,yes, I can get 480p or above resolution from DVI but not from the DVD-ROM.

As a owner of Momitsu V880 for more than one year,I had expected to meet some bugs with the machine like AVLP2. The only problem is I can not read Japanese.But with the help of translation software and some chinese characters in Japanse, I can still figure out some important informations regarding this player. I'm glad to tell you guy that after upgrading to the newest firmware from I-O DATA. Things seemed getting better.

The lag while playing WMVHD DEMO was gone. Now it played smoothly without stuttering. Even more encouraging was with the new software
" AVEL LINK ADVANCED SERVER",now I could play WMVHD DEMO from my PC (of course, not from portable USB2.0 hrad disc linked to AVLP2) with digital sound out.

I'd try more tonight.

TUFU,

could you please try to see if the DVI can work with the internal DVD-ROM now? Thx

bobo

I doubt DVD-playback through DVI will work with this update.

I've had a mail conversation with a support person at IO Data. He claims that macrovision forbids them to enable this. (He agrees that this is a software issue)

What I don't understand is how Macrovision can forbid this, if they use HDCP on the DVI output. Could it be that the AVLP/DVDG hardware is not able to support HDCP!?

No,the internal DVD-ROM could not ouput via DVI. When you set AVLP2 to whatever DVI resolution and tried to play with DVD-ROM,there showed a warning saying no to DVI output.

Regarding the picture quality,I had compared it in DVI from AVLP2 and V880 just for a short period. I am not good to describe it with tecnical terms. All I can say is the piture in AVLP2 is a little more sharp and clear than V880. In AVLP2 the picture also look more colorful and with a better contrast(sometimes,I felt the picture inV880 just like having a slight white
over it).
For DVI output,I think AVLP2 is a better low priced DVI player than V880.
But the limitation of DVI ouput only through network media not DVD-ROM could be a big problem for those want to use AVLP2 as a major DVD player.

The last is about the photo quality of AVLP2 which I think is a much much better part than V880. When I played digital picture from V880, it just like v880 had treated whatever the high resolution digital picture as 480i and then even with upscale,the picture seemed blurred. But in AVLP2,it is a different story because the AVLP2 supported high resolution for photo,so it just like you see a real high resolution photo in projector. The difference in photo quality of both player is very impressive than the subtle difference in DVI output of video.
I had not tried to compare the component output of both players. But I can say at least the AVLP2 is as good as the V880.

Is there any way you can post pictures of the output to your TV via Avel Player and the Momitsu Player? Maybe we can get a sense of the PQ differences as well. And thanks for all the answers.

Originally posted by TUFU
To Ursa:
The DVI support started from 480p not 480i just like V880.So,yes, I can get 480p or above resolution from DVI but not from the DVD-ROM.

Thanks! So ordinary DVDs, even if not upconverted, are not playable via DVI? That's really too bad. Otherwise, it sounds like the other half of my HTPC replacement (the first half being the HD Tivo...).

Later,
Bill

Thanks for your observations TUFU. I am anxiously awaiting the sale of this in U.S.

Keep the info coming TUFU!!

Could you give any info on what the LAN navigation looks like? Is it glitchy or well thought out? Does it just show file names, etc.? Obviousely I am not talking Xlobby type capabilities, but how easy is it to access the files on the LAN? (Very important for WAF...)

Also, and I relize this is asking a lot, but have you had the chance to try out any Ogg Vorbis or .OGM (Xvid preferably) MPEG4 streams? Totally understandable if you don't have any.

-Suntan

TUFU,

Thanks for the great update. I hope the support in the USA is there when the product launches. In particular firmware and Server Software updates, otherwise like you TUFU, we will be be struggling to understand the Japanese forums!

Ricardo

mmmm...if i buy one then i will take out rom drive and do a hack or just wait til someone else does this and do what they did i will have 1080i over dvi on this player just wait and see...lol...i love computers...

Unless the DVI controller is in firmware, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Later,
Bill

Originally posted by deez
mmmm...if i buy one then i will take out rom drive and do a hack or just wait til someone else does this and do what they did i will have 1080i over dvi on this player just wait and see...lol...i love computers...

You may be able to make the drive region free but you also need to hack the firmware to access the DVI port. It could also be a hardware limitation; it may not have a hardware path from the DVD ROM to the DVI output :mad: We will not know until we get one on hand.

It probably depends upon what was in the reference design...

I'd like to add some more comments with this player.

1.I could post some pictures comparing AVLP2 and V880,but I doubt that I can take a good enough photo tolet you see the difference in picture quality of both players. Maybe it was more easy to take some photos to show the lan navigation and file list.

2.I did not have any MPEG4 stream in OGG or OGM. I just tried some songs made with ogg extension in AVLP2 and it played well.

3.It seemed that there were going to have some similar products from China (AVLP2 was OEM and made in China) as seen in other thread. If I-O DATA thought DVD-VIDEO output from DVI was illegal?, then I thought there might have the possiblity that similar products made in China could unlock the DVI,region and macrovision limitation. Even it does happen,then you should worry about the ability of software or firmware upgrade from these companies comparing to the well reputated I-O DATA or V880's previous expreience.

4.There are still some bugs remained to be fixed which I found recently.
The first is the sound problem. That means when you play either from DVD-ROM or hard disc,the sound just suddenly become explosive,stuttering or just absent which happened most ofter during forwad and chapter search and sometimes during cyclying with audio choosing. This happed mostly in backup DVD,and less in region2 original DVD and hard disc either in USB2.0 or from PC. When the sound problem occurred,it could be normal again when you pushed backward or just stop pause and played again but .Some segments of DVD-VIDEO just showed explosive sound which could not be normal by whatever methods. I think it is most likely a firmare problem.

5.Another bug happened when I ripped movies to hard disc. In two of them(Miracle and Troy),the original white subsitle become gray with a white shadow around it.Maybe I can post some pictures to show it later. Someone know where is the possible cause for this?
Also when you see the films from hard disc and cyclying through the subtitle button,the response to show subtitle seemed delayed and sometimes just no subtitle ,and you must toggle through the subtitle button again to show it.

First, thanks to TOFU for interpreting a lot of information from the japanese userguide.

I've been using the AVEL-1 linkplayer for several months and have been struggling with many of the problems mentioned by TOFU. And some of them i've managed to solve. This week i got the AVEL-2 player, which of couse raises a number of new problems.
Anyway - I believe i have "solved" the DVD to DVI problem, and here is the recipe.

For this to work you need to "cheat" the AVEL1 or 2 to believe that it is playing "non-protected" material over the network. So what you do is

1) Install Sly Soft's ANY DVD on the PC where the AVEL link-server software resides
2) Map the DVD-drive of that PC with the AVEL link-server software
3) Insert DVD disc into drive of PC where the AVEL link-server software resides - and play from the AVEL with DVI out !!! Quality is EXCELLENT !!

This has been a big improvement from earlier when i had to rip movies first.

Hope this is helps someone out there.

BTW. TOFU - have you experienced some deterioration of PAL discs ? These are really jumpy/jerky on the AVEL2, I would relate this to poor conversion between PAL/NTSC, but i am not sure. I did not have this problem with the AVEL1

BTW. paid 28500 Yen for the AVEL2 in the Tokyo/Akihabara SOFMAP store

Regards Jens.

Did I not read in the manual it has a true PAL mode, that can be accessed using (FW Disable setting)

Am also interested in finding out about the multiregion code for this.

Am planning on getting the AVLP2 from Japan for the main purpose of playing WMVHD commercial discs from US, in 720p and 1080i when they are released, hopefully this will pose little problem, using a D4 to component cable?

you may want to read this before you buy a player.
http://www.eet.com/article/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=50500181&url_prefix=&sub_taxonomyID=4217

Kevin - It's an interesting article, but do you really think it's relevant to this generation? Anyone who buys one of these players ought to know that it won't play either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The WMV-HD support is a) for consumers who have some of the media already, or who transcode transport streams, and b) to act as a test bed for chipset vendors like Sigma to test out their chipsets before either next-gen format hits the market.

Later,
Bill

Agree.

I'm going to buy one of these networked media players as soon as one becomes available in U.S. supporting WMV-HD 720p.

like i posted in the other thread read this quote. if true there will be no more wm9 so it would be wortless buying one that plays a code that may no longer exist.

The uncertainty has raised questions about the future of Microsoft's Windows Media Video codec. On the assumption that WMV9 was destined to become an industry standard, Microsoft convinced both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the DVD Forum to include it as a mandatory video compression format (along with MPEG-2 and H.264/MPEG-4 AVC) for next-generation high-definition DVD formats. Now, there is speculation that delays or licensing problems for VC-1 could prompt either — or both — of the DVD industry groups to simply delete the Microsoft technology from their specifications.

I read the speculation.

It's a turf war within SMPTE. The surest way to guarantee Blu-Ray or HD-DVD are DOA, would be to omit it, and wake up to a video I-Pod.

With WMV-HD, Microsoft has basically demonstrated that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are not needed to deliver/view HD content. (and neither is Denon...lol).

Hi JensH, nice to see you share your expreience with AVLP2.

1.I had tried to access the PC's DVD-ROM without success in the first AVEL LINK SERVER and I did not try to do the same thing in " AVEL LINK ADVANCED SERVER". Thanks for your information, now I could map my DVD-ROM to the video destination pathway. But for some reason, I still had no chance to test this.

2.I only owned a PAL disc made in France. Sadly,it just like you said that it was jerky and even worse was that when I tried to forward the film the palyer was dead. That means the player was unresponsive to any button with black screen . All you can do is to power off the player( like the inital product of V880,sometimes I had to unplug the power cord,except in AVLP2 you can just push the power button off).
Also, do you expreience any digital sound problem while playing either from DVD-ROM or hard disc?

3.I had burned DIVX trailer of "SHARK TALES" to dvd disc and played it in both V880 and AVLP2. The picture is very amazing and impreesive in AVLP2.
But, in V880,when I tried to access the file,all I got is totally dead of V880 and I had to unplug the power cord again . Same things happened when I tried to play some 720p mpg file converting from HD TS stream in V880.

4.I'd like to try to find more informations from Japanese website. Hope they can fix it as soon as possible.

Tufu or Jens,

It seems the Avel Linkplayer2 still has many problems. You mention the good reputation of IODATA. I want to purchase this player as soon as it is available but only if the company has a track record of fixing these kinds of issues. Can you comment further on IODATA's reputation and whether you have confidence that these problems will be addressed with future firmware and software server updates.

All the best,
Ricardo

Kevin - You run Gentoo, don't you? ;)

Ricardo - good question. While I don't use any PAL material, this isn't good news when I am hoping to have something more stable than my HTPC is today...

Later,
Bill

Hi RicardoD,

As I had stated previously,I had expected to expreience some problems with this player. Why? AS a owner of V880, I had encountered many problems with the inital product of V888 one year ago,I had upgrade firmwares several times and also changed the DVD-ROM.Now, I can say my V880 is stable and acceptable. That is why some people think products like V880 is immature and like a trash. To AVLP2,things became more complex because it was just like a half-HTPC. There must have some problems with the first product. So,anyone want to buy product like this ,should keep this in mind.Hope when it is available in USA,the bugs will all be fixed.

When I say " good reputation" ,I only mean:

1.The I-O data is a worldwide company with many products in either AV or PC area. Personally,I had used many products of I-O daa such as DVD burner.hard disc,and LCD.

2.Within less than one month after first release of AVLP2, there were several firmwares upgrade and also a new software to fix the bugs. So,to now, I think the support from I-O DATA is very good. Of course,I can not be sure whether they can fix all the problems. So you guy are lucky to wait for at least one month to see someone like me to test and find the problems.If the problems you concerned can not be solved,then you can seriously consider whether to buy this product.

Thanks for the additional comments TUFU.

The intent of this product for me is to make it a cheap HTPC alternative and since it is a hardware/firmware type product it must be very stable and completely simple for my wife to use. And to be honest, I don't want to deal with any hassles either.

I recently purchased SageTV/Hauppage PVR-250 combo for my main computer in my office and my wife loves it. Now we just want to access my PVR mpeg2 files and the mpeg4 library I am slowly building in my main family room projector area. And I am sure my family will enjoy photo slideshows as I have a 6 year library of digital photos now.

In my mind the Linkplayer2 is an easy, relatively cheap, one-box swap out of for my current DVD player that allows me to do many things.

I can't seem to configure a cheap HTPC that is not at least double the price of what the Linkplayer2 costs. I also like the idea of using money saved toward more network storage.

My video requirements are simple: 480p and VGA out, that's all my projector will support. So I will not be waiting for the DVI WiFi version.

So thank you TUFU for helping to work out the bugs!

All the best,
Ricardo

Some further comments.

As I had stated previouly , I had been very impressive with the DIVX HD
"SHARK TALE" trailer.Initally,I played it from an external USB2.O hard drive connected to AVLP2. Then,I tried to played it from my notebook(P4 1.4M centrino,512RAM,40GB,5200RPM) via ethernet. I thought I should get same picture quality. Wrong,there were very big difference in picture quality as compared from USB2.0 hard disc. Then I burned the file in DVD-R and played it in DVD-ROM of AVLP2 and tried to compare them via DVI.

I am not a good photographer. Even with this kept in mind, I though all you guy can easily see the degradation in picture quality when playing via ehernet. Can someone comment on this? Does this have any relationship to ehernet connection, PC power(CPU,MEMORY,HARD DISC et) or the types of film played? I'd trie to play and compare WMVHD demo later.


NOTEBOOK
[
Also,the subtitle bug,see the original white subtile now was changed.

Your photography clearly shows the notebook degradation you described.

Will the AVLP2 play a non-DRM protected, WM9 720p file from the DVD-rom? Sorry if this has already been answered.

TUFU - Is your latop connecting to the player via 10Mbps or 100Mbps Ethernet? If it is 10Mbps, then the network is more than likely at fault. Otherwise, my guess is that your laptop's hard drive might not be fast enough to serve the data fast enough. Do you have a desktop with a 7200rpm hard drive available? That would be a "best case" test for the network integration.

Later,
Bill

Yes, the DVD-ROM can play WM9 720P demo file or HD mpg file(burned in DVD-R) via DVI but only via component with DVD-VIDEO disc.I also tested and compared playing WMVHD from my notebook and USB2.O portable hard disc with similar results.
I'm still waiting for my WMVHD discs from Amazon to test how to play it with AVLP2.

I am sure my ethernet is 100M.
I don't have a more powerful PC with a high speed 7200rpm hard disc now.I really want to figure out what are the possible causes for this.I know someone had this player and I will ask him and let you know the result.

I can live with those limitations and flaws as described, if I can play WMV-HD 720p content (created with JVC 720p camcorder), via DVI on DVD-R media if output is non-degraded as shown by TUFU's pics (above).

But it looks like I have to travel to Japan to buy this thing. Why is the U.S. introduction delayed?

Thank you for questions answered and please keep the observations coming.

TUFU,

Your pictures make the difference obvious. Does mpeg4 have the ability to "downgrade itself" if it is not getting data fast enough? I thought it would just stutter or something if your network or HD is not up to speed.

Thanks for the continued testing. You are debugging it for me I think.

One more possible test: If your notebook has USB 2.0 port, can you hook up your USB 2.0 HD to your notebook and try to play the file located on the USB HD, through your notebook to linkplayer ethernet connection?

All the best,
Ricardo

I had tried to connect the USB2.0 hard disc to my notebook to test the
DIVX HD "SHARK TALE". Again ,the picuture was severely degraded via ethernet.
When I just wanted to give up, I see there were two items in the software of "AVEL LINK SERVER ADVANCED" were checked by default. With the second item checked, IT seemed that you can play as many as AVI films with various codess which were installed in your computer. It was just like AVLP2 use the codecs in your PC to decode the AVI file,so there were no limitations to just DIVX or XVID coded files from DVD-ROM in AVLP2.

Then I tried to uncheck the item and see what happened. WOW....,the picture turned to be normal,and which wereamazing and beautiful just like playing from DVD-ROM and portable hard disc.
If I can read Japanese,maybe I can find the cause of this problem when it happened.
I owned many electronic products made from Japan and I averagely had a travel to Japan once per year,but its sad to say I still can not read Japanese.It's my fault.
Anyway,it is still a good news to all of us.

Tufu,

That is great news and actually a terrific feature that you can play video with the decoding done on the PC. In the case of your DivX example it leads to a poor picture but one can imagine other scenarios where you have some oddball codec requirements or you are dealing with a file that is not DivX/Xvid hardware compatable. At least you will be able to play those videos.

All the best,
Ricardo

That is great news! The AVLP2 more than meets my requirements. Now I just have to wait for U.S. introduction... :(

I wonder if the sometimes jerky video noted earlier can be attributed to the the checked boxes, thus using PC installed codecs in lieu of the AVLP2 hardware? That problem still has not returned?

Wow - this player is starting to sound pretty amazing! I was considering putting together an HTPC at some considerable expense and this sounds like a wonderful alternative, even if the WMV format is doomed to obsolescence (we'll see about that in the next couple of years I guess). Thanks to TUFU and JensH for reporting on their experiences and for working out some of the bugs ahead of time for us ;)

TUFU, could you express an opinion about the quality of component video outputs? How badly does the component video quality suffer in comparison to DVI? The U.S. spec version of AVLP2 doesn't have DVI, but I-O Data starts accepting pre-orders on November 1.

Tom,

I think in the other thread titled "network DVD players" someone received an email from iodata stating that the DVI-Wifi version will launch in the USA a bit after (month or two?) the Component/Non-Wifi version. So you will have to wait till around the new year (just a total guess) if you must have DVI.

Since TUFU determined that you can do the video decoding on the PC, I wonder how the video frames get transferred to the Linkplayer2. I looks like on the PC the video was getting decoded at a lower resolution than on the DVD player itself. What I am getting at is what if the PC is set to decode to the same resolution that the DVD player would decode to? Then perhaps you would get an equivalent video quality. That of course leads to potential tweaks to make decoding on the PC look superior to decoding on the DVD player. Or does the DVD player take the video frames and manipulate them somehow.

Lots to play around with once more people get their hands on some units.

Ricardo

Thanks RicardoD, but that's not quite what I'm asking TUFU about. I want to know about the degradation of the component video image quality compared to DVI on his AVLP2.

That's a separate question from the one you are raising, and I think TUFU answered previously, regarding image degradation from using a Codec on the PC, versus hardware decoding within the AVLP2, as demonstrated with his pictures. In other words, the theory has been postulated that depending on the state of the checkboxes in the network configuration, the ethernet data stream might either be file data, or frame data. His conclusion was that file data, hardware-decoded by the Sigma EM8620L (presumably) yields a better result than frame data submitted by the PC codec, (if that's what's happening.)

If the component video output quality is decent, I want to go ahead and move on this without further ado. I ask because the component video output quality on the Momitsu V880 was said to be sub-par.

If it's okay on the AVLP2 (without DVI), when the AVLP2 (with DVI and WiFi) comes out I'll get that one too.

I can't hurry fast enough to dump the HTPC, what a pain.

Originally posted by Tom Roper
If the component video output quality is decent, I want to go ahead and move on this without further ado. I ask because the component video output quality on the Momitsu V880 was said to be sub-par.



Oddly enough though, the RGBHV output on the V880 was as good as the DVI. Perhaps it has something to do with the chipset.

Of course that won't be an option until the DVI is available on the 2nd vers (if it all), so it's a mute point anyway on this player.

If this players server software is like some of the older Sigma based players (like Showcenter) non-supported codecs are transcoded on the fly to a preferred supported codec. If for some reason the Advanced setting makes it examine the WMVHD stream in detail to decide if it needs to convert to some other codec his laptop would definitely be underpowered to do that in real time (1.4GHZ Pentium M). Microsoft specs require min of 2.4GHZ for WMVHD 720p and 3GHZ for 1080p.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ChoosingPC.aspx

Tom,

Ok, I get it now. I have my wife just about talked into letting me preorder this sucker on Nov 1st. As my library of recorded shows on my PC grows her inability to watch them while resting on the couch is motivation to get this baby. All I can compare this against is my trusty Panasonic RP56 with recently upgraded firmware. My component outputs feed into to a component to RGBHV (VGA) converter box. Thats what feeds both my projector and RPTV. It would suck if my regular DVD playback takes a hit due to crappy component outputs and deinterlacing chip.

Ricardo

Originally posted by RicardoD
It would suck if my regular DVD playback takes a hit due to crappy component outputs and deinterlacing chip.

Ricardo

Exactly. The Sigma chips seem to be fairly well regarded as mpeg decoders, and okay for deinterlacing most properly flagged movies, as I recall. But the analog frequency response of the V880 was very bad on the Secrets Benchmark tests, although not so bad at all on the Bravo D3 which I think uses the same Sigma decoder. So I'm not sure if mentioning Momitsu is even relevant (TUFU did first ;)), because the analog stage is what counts.

At least you have the RP56 as a fallback position for NTSC-DVD viewing, and so do I, the RP82.

We were discussing this player at doom. I have seen the IO DATA spec sheet, but it provides very little info. I would like to know the following:

1) Does it support OpenDML avi (avi>2gig)? (I guess not)

2) Does it support AVI + AC3? (I guess not)

3) Does it support AVI + AAC? (I guess not)

4) Does it support MPEG2 + AAC? (I guess so)

5) Does it support OGM (DivX/XviD with 5.1 ogg)? (I guess so)

6) Does it support OGM (DivX/XviD with 5.1 AAC)? (I guess so)

7) Does it support OGM (DivX/XviD with 5.1 ogg/AAC and srt)? (I guess so)

Thanks!

can I add a few extra question

8) Will it play 1080i .ts file with dd5.1 through the internal dvd-rom?

9) Will it output this through dvi, or as I think i'm reading, will nothing played from the internal dvd-rom output via dvi?

10) I'm currently watching them through HTPC via dvi - is component output gonna be noticably poorer?

Thanks for any help

Steve

My bet is that most of us with TS files will transcode them into WMV-HD or DIVX-HD to save space and we already know that it will play those. I haven't seen anything about it supporting .TS files directly but since they are MPEG2 compressed maybe they will show up eventually as supported files.

I'm very interested in this player, the KISS 600, or any other network DVD w/ WMV9 potential. From a glance it seems this one will not do internet radio? I love the fact that they support Mac for the server, but does anyone know how it integrates w/ iTunes? If I could use my iTunes playlists & also access internet radio, this would be perfect. Also, I see the Japanese version has english & Japanese menus. If someone could figure out how to change the region code of that model so I could play USA discs, I would try to find a way to buy one now. PM me if you have one to sell! I want to start experimenting. Also, anyone know anything more about the KISS model? If you do, perhaps another post on that one, or contribute to mallu2u's post about all of these networked DVDs here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=446614)

Hi TOM,

I also think the component output of V880 is a sub-par comparing to DVI
output. I had not test the component vs DVI in AVLP2.Maybe I can test
it in recent 2 days if time available.

When I first encountered the problem in playing DIVX HD,I think
whether it is a bug that can be fixed by firmware upgrade
just like the stuttering or lag occurring during playing WMVHD before upgrade.
In Divx's website,it suggested at least 2.4G,384 RaM,and 64MB VIDEO RAM
(same as the requirement for WMV9) to play DIVX HD film. So I think maybe my notebook is not powerful enough to play DIVX HD.
My notebook can play 720P WMVHD flawlessly
but when I check the item in AVEL LINK software to use the PC to decode
the film, I still got poor picture via ethernet to AVLP2.
Does this mean AVLP2 does something different when receiving the decoded film or file sent to it?
Someone told me that the player will down sacle the
film sent to it to 640x480 then upsale it again. If this is true,then
a powerful PC will not be helpful.
If I have a powerful PC,then I can test whether a powerful PC with
decoded film sent to AVLP2 via ethernet can have a similar picture
quality as the non-decoded file.

To Wilbert,
I am not familiar with the codecs things and do a little about transcoding
the video or audio.I only installed K-lite mega codec pack in my PC
and used HT MPEGENCODER Proauthor to do a few transcoding.
In the specification of the player listed the supported audio included:
MP3,MP2,OGG,WAV,AAC,WMA,M4A,ASF,and supported video:DAT,MPG,MPEG,M2V,AVI,MOV,MP4,M2P,WMV.
So.I don't known which combinations you listed would
be played by this player.At least,it is possible that your PC can do the
whole things and sent it to AVLP2 with possible degradation in picture quality.Or,you can teach me how to test and make those files you listed.

To scwheeler,
One of my friend sent me several mpg files recored in DVD-R which were
converted from 1080i TS stream.When I placed it in DVD-ROM and tried to
played it,I only got "Encrypted mpeg file" warning.I don't know how is
the mpg file converted by my friend.But,I used HDTVTOMPEG2 to convert the mpg file once more,the file now can play well in AVLP2.
But curiously,there were 2 mpg files larger than 4G can not be converted
by HDTVTOMPEGG2,and all I can do is use software to split the files to 2 small part,then it's ok to convert and play.

To mikemav,
AVLP2 did not have internet radio,itune or navigation to internet.
V880 seemed to have above functions,I'm not sure.
Also,the Japanese model did not have English menus.There is a item
choosing for English but not for setup menus.Anyway,there are no prblems
to show the names of your file or directory in English.

It can get DVI output from its DVD-ROM except DVD-VIDEO.
So,you can burn mpg,avi et. files to DVD-R and played it in AVLP2 via DVI.

Hi TUFU and all,

I got an AVLP2 myself very recently.
I am currently living in Tokyo and bought it before moving to Canada early next year.
From the few DVDs I have played on it, I can select up to 1080i thru component (D4 to Component cable) if the DVD is one of my own backup DVDs...
I will try more during the next days to come, including DVI output. So far, the image quality is awesome. I still own a Denon 2900, and I do not see much difference yet.
I am not a "video specialist", but if I can be of some help, I will do my best to report how this amazingly interesting machine works.

Arrius

There is some new information on the US version of the IODATA Linkplayer2 DVDLA at iodata's US website:

http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&ts=2&tsc=&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA

It states you can pre-order starting November 1st. Today is Nov 1st and I haven't figured out how to pre-order. However if you read the new US focused content you will see that the webpage was definitely constructed by a non-native English speaker. It has that sort of "Japanglish" feel that can be construed as slightely humorous. Perhaps "pre-order" just means you can put the product in your shopping cart but can't check out. The US manual is also available for download.

Anybody else figure out how to preorder?

The site also cleary states the DVI / WiFi US version will be available in 2005.

Arrius, thanks for your impressions, please keep sharing.

All the best,
Ricardo

Also tried to preorder on the website with no luck. Guess I'll be checking this forum and the I-O Data website daily for updates.

Originally posted by RicardoD
The site also cleary states the DVI / WiFi US version will be available in 2005.

I can't find this on the site, but that's good news if it's true. I can't wait for the DVI version to become available here :D

I think this is where, but is not updated as of 11-02-04

Hope this helps.
Jedillwag

Dolfo,

There is a question in the iodata Q&A section as follows:

Which one is released in USA/Canada?
Our 1st product should be AVLP2/DVDLA. The different spec points are no WiFi and no DVI from AVLP2/DVDG (Japanese Version). WiFi version will be our 2nd model of 2005.

All the best,
Ricardo

Dear Thomas,

Thank you for the message.
And we apologize your frustration...
Actually our manufacturing schedule was pretty delayed. But we can
announce to start pre-ordering today or tomorrow. I'll let you know soon.
Thank you very much for waiting.

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:49:39 -0800
"Thomas Roper" <motronix@vsdrives.com> wrote:

> Name Thomas Roper
> City Aurora
> State CO
> Country United States of America
> Referer Other
> Inquiry Type - AVeL LinkPlayer
> Where you purchased the product
> Invoice# / Web Order ID
> Message
> It's November 1 everywhere.How do I pre-order the AVLP2 LinkPlayer?
> View Database Entry

Best Regards,
Mitsuo Jack Akita

P.S.
I-O DATA launches an online shopping web site: http://shop.iodata.com/

Just got an email from iodata.

Pre-ordering is now available. They directed me to this link:

http://www.iodata.com/usa/news/culture.php?newsID=45&tot=33&ts=4&tsc=23

Too bad their IP filter blocks me from doing this from work, the filter thinks I am outside the US.

All the best,
Ricardo

Thanks...I just ordered one.

Now the waiting after the wait begins...

Am I customer #1 ?

Today's News:
http://www.iodata.com/usa/news/culture.php?newsID=45&tot=33&ts=4&tsc=23

[1] "AVeL LinkPlayer" Pre-Order Start!
Today, we have starts the pre-ordering for AVLP2/DVDLA. The 1st shipping
has just limited quantity, therefore, USA regidence customers only can
buy them on our online web site. The shipping will arrive on the mid of
November 2004.

[2] "FAQ" & "Compare" pages are opened
And you better check these sites before purchasing. Try to check FAQ and
Compare lists. We don't want you to make any misunderstanding before.

Thank you very much for choosing I-O DATA LinkPlayer!


If you don't want anymore this e-news, please let us know.
--
INFO <info@iodata.com>

Guess I better go read FAQ and Compare sections (since I've already purchased...Lol)

Originally posted by RicardoD
Dolfo,

There is a question in the iodata Q&A section as follows:



All the best,
Ricardo

Ah, yes - there it is. Can't wait!

this is not wireless version, right?

ordered it!

Hi TUFU and others,

Over the next few days I will try and post links to some HD encodes you can try.

Don't get too excited though as they will only be "test cards"


Cheers

Hi SeeMoreDigital and Wilbert,

I had tried to learn something about codecs and transcoding in DOOM
in recent several days,and I had seen both of your names many times.
As I stated previously,my PC just installed K-lite mega pack with software
HT MPEG ENCODER PROAUTHOR. I also installed AUTOGK yesterday.
But I still did not have much idea about how to do those transcoding.
If you can link some short files with above encoding,maybe I can tried to download and play it in AVLP2 and see whether those were playable.

Hi ARRIUS,

Don't know whether you can read Japanese,then maybe you can provide
more informations about possible reigons change of DVD-ROM and any possbility to hack the DVD-ROM to play DVD-VIDEO via DVI?

Also do you experience any digital output problems either in DVD-ROM or
via ethernet?

Thanks

Ok Tom, I'm in, pre-ordered. I imagine you and I may end up being the main USA product testers. I wasnt' so crazy to order overnight shipping however.

All the best,
Ricardo

For 20$ you can buy and encoder as a plug-in that adds on to Nero dvd burning software. Specifically it adds on to the Nero Vision Express module, to convert mpeg and other files to dvd. Its seems a great value yet I see almost no posts about it ever. Some people who own Nero got it the deluxe install of the products disc and don't know it.

Originally posted by RicardoD
Ok Tom, I'm in, pre-ordered. I am imagine you and I may end up being the main USA product testers. I wasnt' so crazy to order overnight shipping however.

All the best,
Ricardo

I went with 2nd day air, but I had one hitch in the ordering, on my credit card I didn't enter the correct (3) numbers from the back of the card. So they emailed me right away which was good, and I phoned it to them. Still though, ordered online, but needing some human intervention to correct my mistake, you never know...fingers crossed the transaction works out okay.

I have a couple of questions for those of you who own one of these already:

1. Do they recognize music and images (mp3/jpeg) recorded on all supported media or just recorded on CD-R. I ask because a lot of today's DVD players advertise support of these files, but they don't tell you that they are only recognized if recorded on CD-R (I have tried recording mp3 files and JPGs to DVD+R and the players failed to recognize it).

2. Does the player not recognize an NTFS USB HD or does it recognize it and work with it as long as none of the files are bigger than 4GB? I know it is advertised to only support FAT32 USB Hard Drives, but I wasn't sure if it actually detects the file system or if it just needs to implement a file size limit.


Neither of these questions are too significant (I want one either way), but I was just curious. If you get a chance to test either of these, great! If not, no worries.

just preordered one. after all the mods to the lite-on (now on my third dvd-rom drive), i almost feel like i'm replacing a child.

Originally posted by Dolfo


2. Does the player not recognize an NTFS USB HD or does it recognize it and work with it as long as none of the files are bigger than 4GB? I know it is advertised to only support FAT32 USB Hard Drives, but I wasn't sure if it actually detects the file system or if it just needs to implement a file size limit.


Same question I have. I have much of my video library on external HD. I'm confused after reading the user's manual. Will it recognize my external NTSF formatted HD and see only my files that are less than 4GB? This FAT32 restriction does not effect internal HDs formatted to NTSF does it?

Originally posted by MVBJJ
This FAT32 restriction does not effect internal HDs formatted to NTSF does it?

I wouldn't think so, but that is another good question.

Hi all,

TUFU, unfortunately, I cannot read Japanese myself, I have to go thru friends and this is a little bit tedious as they are not used to such system!!
I am currently in contact with IO-Data support team for possible update in firmware for region change.

By the way, I opened the beast and tried to connect another DVD player: either my old Ricoh 5125 or Plextor 708 were recognised and worked flawlessly. That can be the hard trick!
Regarding external HD I am using an IDE to USB2 adapter with my HD. I have to dig a little bit more, but it really seems tha NTFS disc are recognized, but you cannot see any of their content, even with file size smaller than 4 Gigs.
I will check DVI output more extensively this coming weekend.

Regards to all
Arrius

Here is what I received from I-O Data Tech Support in response to my FAT32 and file size limitation questions:

Dear Michael,

I'll reply to you now.

> Most of my movie files are MPEG2 and on my external HD connected to
my
> PC via USB/firewire. Does this mean Link player will not see my NTSF
> formatted HD at all? or will it see only MPEG2 files less than 4 GB?

First of all, if you pick up that MPEG data from your PC (inside HD),
you can play... no problem. I'll let you know the matrix here.

Network USB2.0
MPEG2 OK OK, but depends on FAT size limitation
AVI2.0 Need New Firmware Need New Firmware

Networking play doesn't matter with any HDD format.
But pay the attantion. This case is just MPEG2. MPEG2-TS has not been
supported officially, OK?

> Is the FAT32 limitation only for USB storage devices connected
> directly to Link player via USB port and not for USB storage devices
> connected to my computer?

You're correct.

> How about my internal HDs? Both my internal HDs are NTSF formatted.

I will say "No problem" again.

> Will Link player see these drives? Is the FAT32 limitation only for
> external drives?

Yes, same thing.

Thank you.

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:35:32 -0800 (PST)
Michael Wheeler <wheels92881@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Mitsuo,
>
> Thank you for your quick reply. Need further clarification. Most of
my movie files are MPEG2 and on my external HD connected to my PC via
USB/firewire. Does this mean Link player will not see my NTSF formatted
HD at all? or will it see only MPEG2 files less than 4 GB?
>
> Is the FAT32 limitation only for USB storage devices connected
directly to Link player via USB port and not for USB storage devices
connected to my computer?
>
> How about my internal HDs? Both my internal HDs are NTSF formatted.
Will Link player see these drives? Is the FAT32 limitation only for
external drives?
>
> Please advise. Thank-you.
>
> --Michael

Arrius, since you already have opend up the box: Have you tried to connect an internal HDD? If you have a look at the block diagram in the product specifications you will se that it states "DVD Drive unit (Slave HDD)". Maybe both DVD transport and HD could be connected?

I got my AVLP2/DVDG from Japan today. Sitting next to me on my office table. Hard to focus on anything but my will to go home and play with it! :-)

/BE

Just let you guy know,I-O DATA had just released a new firmware to fix some problems.
http://www.iodata.jp/lib/doc/avlp2dvdg_fup1.htm

It seemed that this new firmware did not solve the problem of digital sound output completely,althought it does improve it someway.I still had sudden loss of sound with fastforward or chapter search during playing DVD-VIDEO. But it was much better while playing from hard drive now.
From previous experience, I thought further firmware upgrade may improve
the digital sound problem,it not,then I may consider change the DVD-ROM as in my V880. The DVD-ROM in AVLP2 and V880 came from same company with different models. So,there may have same problems in some machines.

Hi Arrius, I also liked to know whether you had hack the replaced DVD-ROM
as you stated to region free and whether it could play as a region free
DVD-ROM in AVLP2?

Someone had posted the interior of AVLP2.
http://www.myav.com.tw/vbb221/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145846

Could anyone who knows about this Sigma chipset comment on the issue of playing network .ifo files? I know someone from Sigma was on this forum. Is it possible that players based on this chip EM8620L is it?) can play .ifo, which is the DVD menu structure? I don't see why not; HTPC's can play it, both with software DVD players and even hardware decoder cards that play DVD (like the MyHD card.) I always rip my DVDs as full copies w/ menus w/ DVD Decrypter, and would really like to keep the menu structure intact, with proper chapter skip, etc.. This is now the only thing holding me back from dumping the HTPC. Also, I love the fact that this player supports the server software on Mac OS-X. Does anyone know if any of the other player (KISS DP-600, for example) are working on this support. I assume the "middleware" for this chip is only being devepled by one or two software companies, so any knowledge of what is in the pipeline would be helpful. I really like the Mac support of the I-O, but also want the internet radio capabilities of the Momitsu and possibility others.

Edit- I just did some reading up on the KISS Dp-600. I am told it will be out in the US in a few weeks. It also looks to support the PC Link app AND will probably support a MacLink app they have now available for their DP-1500. This way, files stored on both my PC and my Mac can be browsed. Also, it has internet radio like the Momitsu 880N. I was also told earlier in the year in an email from KISS that it will have DVI out and scale up to HD resolutions. This might be the one I am looking for!

Now I have had some time to play with my new AVLP2/DVDG. Some rough edges but an overall good impression. I have not yet received my 15m DVI-D cable so I have not yet had the chance to validate the picture quality.

The server is, at least on the Mac side, "only" based on a TomCat JPS engine and some HTML. I had no problem changing the pictures used for buttons. Since the software is based on themes, I guess people could make their own themes and share, like for xBox XBMC.

Those who miss internet Radio, RSS and web browsing will be happy to hear that the server software this baby is based on comes from http://www.syabas.com and is shared by other companies who have come longer in their server implementations. I downloaded the latest realease from http://www.neuston.com and I had only minor problems with it. You have to choose neustontech as player theme in the prefernces to get slide show to work OK. Still only slideshow option gives OK looking pictures. Shuffle make them look to jaggy. I also downloaded the server for Elgato EyeHome (http://www.elgato.com), but I couldn't "log in" since it told me "Unauthorized access. Please try again."

OK, that all for now. Gotta get something to eat before I hit the sack!

EDIT - I think I will investigate if MacLink from Kiss (http://www.kiss-technology.com/?p=maclink&v=users) also works. It seams to have an easier configuration interface.
EDIT - No, MacLink dont work. Also, Neuston server works OK for serving up pictures, audio and Internet stuff, but not Video.

Hello everyone,

As promised I have managed to generate some high-def "Test Cards" for you to try.

This first batch of 3No files are as follows: -

1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AC3 in AVI
1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AAC in AVI
1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AAC in MP4

All of which can be downloaded here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/1280x720_Mpeg4_ Encodes.zip).


Cheers

Hi,

I had tested 3 files.
The file with AC3 is OK but the two files with AAC shows "unknown audio codec".

By the way, I had tried to play a PAL DVD in AVLP2 but failed.

Also,the I-O DATA is going to release a new model of AVLP2-DVDLJ.
Seemed like it will be the model sold in US without DVI and wirless lan
(DVDLJ-- DVD-ROM,Lan,Japan).
http://www.iodata.jp/prod/multimedia/video/2004/avlp2/index.htm
and the back panel
http://www.iodata.jp/prod/multimedia/video/2004/avlp2/index8.htm

Well that's interesting!

I'm hoping that all this means is the player does not like 6Ch AAC audio. And not AAC altogether!

I will upload some "audio only" 2Ch AAC in AVI and MP4 streams for you to try!

It's damned good news that 1280x720 Mpeg4/AC3 encodes work though :D


Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

What are you using for encoding the files? I was wondering because i use Nero recode to encode my DVD's. In recode there is a setting to encode to Nero digital audio 5.1. Is this the same as your "6Ch AAC audio"?

If it is i went to sigma's web site and it stated.
Key Features:
MPEG-4 AAC-LC

I then went to see what LC meant and it stated (Low Complexity)

I then went back to Nero Recode, and realized I had to set the encode to LC instead of automatic. It seemed not to do LC when set to automatic. So I think and hope this will play 5.1 audio, but we need to set encoding to LC.

Also since this this device seems to play MP4 and is UPnP compliant, has anyone seen if it works with Nero Mediahome?

And I know this is new, but can some one post some more screen shoots of the interface for playing network files. Is it customizable, I mean can we add cover art to the audio folders?

I hope this helps
jedillwag

Does the DVI version require HDCP?

Could someone also check and see if the player will support?

MP4 with Qpel (quarter Pixel) and half.

Thank you

Jedillwag

Other questions about the USB port. If you connect a USB hard drive to the player, can that drive be accessed across the network by my PC? This would in a way give me a NAS solution for storing my media, and it would allow the player direct access, without having to stream from my PC hard drive. Would Microsoft Media Connect be able to access that "player attached" hard drive?

Just my take, but after reading through many of these forums in search of the ideal solution for accessing all my media through my TV/Stereo, doesn't it seem to make more sense to have the media storage directly connected to the player? Then be able to access that storage from my home network PCs for adding content.

Another USB port question, can a USB hub be hooked into the port to allow multiple storage/reader devices at same time?

That's it for now. I'll be packing up the ROKU HD1000 i just received and sending it back. It basically does what I want, but such limited video support, and all the bad posts and lack of continued support by Roku, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

I sent an email to I-O Data tech support asking if the DVD-ROM player will upconvert from 420p to 720p or 1080i. The reply was they are checking with engineering and will get back to me. Not clear from earlier posts in this forum if this is indeed an upconversion DVD player. Not clear from the users manual either. There is a button on the remote that toggles between the various video outputs, but it is not clear if this applies to DVD-ROM function. Has someone actually tested a unit for this function?

Hi again,

Before I start, Wilbert has kindly asked me to provide the following link: -

http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/mpeg2_aac_ch20.ts

Which is for an 1440x1080 Mpeg2+2Ch AAC-LC (.ts) encode.


Hi jedillwag,

Actually I encoded the streams with different applications and muxed them together with an application called mp4UI.

That said, the latest version of Recode2 generates extremely good looking encodes and should be ideally suited for use with this player and any other player based around this chip-set.

Also, Sigma's chip-set does not support Qpel (quarter pixel). And cannot be upgraded at any time in the future to do so. And as far as I'm aware, every Mpeg4 codec uses 'half pixel' by default.


Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

Thanks for the info.

I was wondering did you find the Qpel limitation on the sigma web page?
I have looked many times. The chip-set 85xx clearly stated qpel not supported, but on this chip-set EM8620L I can only find GMC not supported.

here is a clip from sigma's facts.

"What kind of MPEG-4 support is provided?

The MPEG-4 video must conform to ISO MPEG-4 Simple or Advanced Simple profile, without global motion compensation (GMC). Up to 5.1 channels of MPEG-4 AAC-LC audio is supported.

For storing personal content using MPEG-4 on CD or HDD, AVI files are used to contain the audio and video data; these must be stored in the ISO 9660 format. Typically, the audio will use the MP3 or Dolby Digital format. "

I only ask because

I can definitely see artifacts on my encodes unless, qpel is selected. it is much slower, but the quality is excellent.

jedillwag

We need a DVI answer from IO Data

I remember when I purchased my HD tv the rumor of the day was HDCP. So I, as others bought one that would work with this.

So from TUFU's posts (thank you very much TUFU) and if I do not miss read his findings.

"It also had a video toggle button like V880.
It supported :
composite and S
D4 480I, D4 480P, D4 720P,D4 1080I( D4 means component)
DVI 480P,720P,1080I,640X480,800X600,1024X768,and 842x480 for plasma
TV"

and then
"Yes,with the player's DVD-ROM,you can only get component output. The DVI output can only be achived via networked hard disc either in your PC or portable USB2.0 hard disc. In the FAQ of AVLP2 in I-O DATA webpage,they say because it's not HDCP compliant ,so the DVD-VIDEO(or the dvd-rom in the player) can not output from DVI. Anyway, when you rip the dvd to hard disc, you still can get DVI output."

But Sigma's web site states http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/em8620Lseries_faq.htm

"What types of Progressive outputs are supported?

For highest picture quality, the EM8620L Series supports 480p, 576p, 720p, 768p, 1024p and 1080p (up to 60Hz refresh rates). It is limited to 480p or 576p for CSS-protected DVDs, unless DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP is used, or the digital video outputs drive a LCD/DLP/PDP/LCOS display or another chip."

And then for the scalling
"Can it scale to HDTV resolution?

Our fourth-generation advanced programmable scaling engine is capable of high-quality scaling of content up to 1920x1080p @ 60Hz. 1:1 pixel mapping to a specific display is now possible, ensuring the highest video quality. However, the resolution is limited to 720x480i, 720x480p, 720x576i or 720x576p for CSS-protected DVDs, unless DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP is used, or the digital video outputs drive a LCD/DLP/PDP/LCOS display or another chip."


Am I missing something.
I have a DVI/HDCP compliant TV, this chip-set in the IO-data player seems to be DVI/HDCP complaint. It seems to be able to scale to very high resolutions if these two devices are connected. What am I not understanding.

jedillwag

With regard to my Qpel statement, I'm only able to refer to "old information" provided be Sigma... while the chip-set was in the development stage!

With regard to GMC, you may well find that the player will spin DivX's "1 warp-point" implementation but not XviD's or Nero's "3 warp-point" implementations...

.. I guess, all one can do is try different options, to make certain ;) But who knows what future firmware updates might add, or take away!

Anyway... I've got a new encode for you to try. This one is as follows: -

1024x576 PAL Mpeg4 + 2Ch AAC-LC (and subs) in MP4 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/XviD+AAC+Subs.zip)

Hopefully your player will be able spin (or stream) this one. If it can't then maybe the MP4 container is not fully supported yet.

With regard to 6Ch AAC-LC audio. Does your player have on-board 6Ch analogue outputs? I ask this because if Sigma are intending to pass 6Ch AAC-LC audio via the digital output, only a couple of DSS amplifiers contain chip-sets capable of on-board AAC processing/decoding.


Good luck

Hi.
The results were:
fille from Wilbert: picture--YES,sound--NO
file from SMD: picture and sound: yes ,OK
(what do you mean SUB? subtitle? I didn't see it)
Actually, I wanted to know whether the player can play subtitle
,but I didn't have files to test this.

I had connected a USB2.0 hard drive to AVLP2,but I can not access it from
my PC. I don't know whether future firmware or software upgrade will
support this function. I-O DATA had released a LANDISC which probably may meet some of your requierment.
http://www.iodata.jp/prod/storage/hdd/2003/hdl-u/index.htm
I had not yet tried to use a USB hub to connect the player.

For DVI problems, I had read the statemetns on Sigma's website,but whatever they said, the actual functions (maybe some functions had been disabled for some reasons that we don't know) that stated on FAQ of AVLP2 inJ apanese website and from my personal expreiences were:

1.The DVD-VIDEO in DVD-ROM can only output from component , S or composite NOT DVI. But,DVD-VIDEO in DVD-ROM can toggle between 480p,720p,1080i in my projector Mitsubishi D1208 which was HDCP comliable.

2.If you burn mpg or avi files in DVD-R(or maybe +R),then,you can get DVI
output which also can toggle between various listed DVI resolution.

3.And, I should correct my previous statement about TS files.I had tried to play some mpg files convered from TS.Initally it showed "encrypted
mpeg files" and was not playable.But now(probably after firmware upgrade,I'm not sure), all previous TS converted mpg file and the file from
Wilbert are playable now but with stuttering or explosive digital sound,except the files more than 4G which were not recognized by the player.

Thanks for your confirmation post TUFU... There's good news and bad news in their!

At least we now know 2Ch AAC-LC audio in .MP4 works :) but not 6Ch :(


With regard to the DVI output, I can only speculate that the reason you can't view "shop bought" DVD's via the DVI output is because they contain MacroVision. And why Mpeg2/DVD streams that have been "backed-up" or don't contain MacroVision... work.

Hopefully Sigma will allow PAL users to play back DVD titles with MacroVision "progressively" As this was a problem with some earlier chip-sets/players!


With regard to Wilbert's "1440x1080 Mpeg2+2Ch AAC-LC (.ts) encode", are you saying both the video and audio can be played now?


And Jeez, I was hoping this 4GB file limit was going to become a distant memory, as it's not exactly useful on a player that's supposed to be able to spin high-definition encodes.

Hopefully the 4GB limit is only limited to Mpeg4 in .AVI and not Mpeg4 in .MP4. Personally speaking, I don't do much CD/DVD burning as all my encodes are stored on hard-drives... which is why I'm interested in your players (and future players) "networking" abilities.


Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

I have read most of your post's at doom9 now, sorry about my previous post. I now see you definitely know much about Nero and MP4 audio.

I have been searching high and low, and I am missing something.

AAC-LC 5.1 file is played with IO Data DVD player -> Audio is DD?
IO Data DVD player send's this audio to DD receiver via SPDIF or coax and gets separated to appropriate channels for playback?

I have looked and really do not see if AAC-LC 5.1 is supported, but in looking I do not see the why it should'nt.

What is your take? If it can play 2 ch AAC-LC then why should it not be able to play 6 ch AAC-LC. I hope this is just be a bug.

thanks
Jedillwag

The AAC (LC and HE) audio streams, need to be decoded before the can be heard. In much the same way Dolby Digital and DTS streams need to be run thru' a decoder before they can be heard.

On a computer, such streams are decoded in software. But on a stand-alone player, the streams can be passed via a digital output (electrical or optical) connector to an DSS (Digital Surround Sound) amplifier. Or they can be decoded by the stand-alone players "on-board" processor and passed via analogue "pre-amplifiers" to powered speakers or a suitable DSS amplifier.

As you pointed out, Sigma say: "Up to 5.1 channels of MPEG-4 AAC-LC audio is supported" but how all 6 channels can be heard, requires clarification!

I have a variety of 6 channel surround sound files within the "Test Encodes" section of my web site if you (or anybody else) is interested.


Cheers

So it sounds like MPEG2 transport streams are not supported. Will they be added? Would really round this product out. Watch TV recordings from an OTA card and archive desirable content to WM9. Does simply running the transport streams through HDTVtoMPEG2 to convert to program streams get them playable?

How about seemlessly switching from one file to the next? Like when watching a DVD from hard drive does it move from each VOB without stopping?

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
So it sounds like MPEG2 transport streams are not supported. Will they be added? Would really round this product out. I would not say that exactly...

The Mpeg2 stream Wilbert made available contained AAC audio, which are quite rare when compared to Mpeg2/AC3 .ts streams.


Cheers

The Mpeg2 stream Wilbert made available contained AAC audio, which are quite rare when compared to Mpeg2/AC3 .ts streams.
I will upload another one with AC3 Ch2.0 tomorrow :)

Originally posted by jedillwag
We need a DVI answer from IO Data

I remember when I purchased my HD tv the rumor of the day was HDCP. So I, as others bought one that would work with this.

So from TUFU's posts (thank you very much TUFU) and if I do not miss read his findings.


"Yes,with the player's DVD-ROM,you can only get component output. The DVI output can only be achived via networked hard disc either in your PC or portable USB2.0 hard disc.
But Sigma's web site states http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/em8620Lseries_faq.htm

jedillwag

IO data player WILL NOT allow playing back DVD movies from DVI, and if Macrovision is on, then there will be no 720P/1080i from the D4 connector. Regardless of Sigma Chip's capability, it's each manufacturer's decision to follow DVD Forum/Macrovision's requirements.

The DVI output is not HDCP because playing back movies/Divx from HD/PC who cares about HDCP?

This is very, very clearly stated and my biggest reservation.

With regard to HDCP, I think there will be many people here, including future customers, who require an answer to this!

As an owner of an large high-def plasma screen, with a sizable collection of "store bought" DVD's, there's no way I would buy, or recommend buying a device that will not allow me to view them via DVI

Given that this player uses an Sigma chip-set and one of their development kits, surely somebody at Sigma, should be able to comment about this, even if it means liaising with IO Data!


Cheers

I did some IP sniffing this weekend and found that the player downloads the latest firmware from this adress: http://myibox.net/update/local-bus/03-42-041101-01-IOD-231-000.bin

I tried to mount the .bin file as a filesystem to look at whats in it, but I failed:
knoppix@ttyp0[hda1]$ sudo mount -t romfs -o loop
03-42-041101-01-IOD-231-000.bin /mnt/avlp2/
mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop0,
or too many mounted file systems

Anybody with experience of Linux who can help me out here?

/BE

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Given that this player uses an Sigma chip-set and one of their development kits, surely somebody at Sigma, should be able to comment about this, even if it means liaising with IO Data! We're liaising with IO Data continuously... :)

As Busybusy said, it's up to each manufacturer to determine their feature set.

As a side note, on our newer chips, we implement some things so that manufacturers cannot accidently violate various license agreements. One result is that they can no longer output DVD-V content over DVI without HDCP.

So, what are known about its abilities to support HDCP?

Could someone explain what is so bad about being able to upconvert a DVD? Are they afraid we might enjoy it too much?

Originally posted by kjack
... As a side note, on our newer chips, we implement some things so that manufacturers cannot accidently violate various license agreements. One result is that they can no longer output DVD-V content over DVI without HDCP. So are you confirming that, everyday "store bought" Mpeg2/AC3 DVD's will never be able to be viewed "officially" via the DVI output?


Cheers

Not unless the DVD Player AND projector/TV support HDCP.

I have asked IO Data the direct question if they support HDCP, but not getting any answer.

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
Could someone explain what is so bad about being able to upconvert a DVD?
There is nothing "bad" about upconverting.

The problem is that the US courts have essentially granted a perpetual monopoly to the DVDCCA for licensing CSS decryption (despite the fact that CSS decryption is not copyrighted, not patented, and not a trade secret). So the DVDCCA makes the rules (with some influence from the movie studios), and the manufacturers of DVD players must follow those rules. One of those rules is that the DVD player cannot produce 720p or 1080i analog output, mainly because such an output cannot be protected by Macrovision in the same way that 480i and 480p can be protected.

Anyway, if you really want to upconvert, but your DVD player does not upconvert, then you can just use an external upconverter. Sure, you would lose some quality because of the D-to-A-to-D conversion, but it is possible at least.

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
So are you confirming that, everyday "store bought" Mpeg2/AC3 DVD's will never be able to be viewed "officially" via the DVI output?

No, never said that! Without knowing the DVI chip, driver build, and any modifications they made to software, can't say.

Originally posted by kjack
No, never said that! Without knowing the DVI chip, driver build, and any modifications they made to software, can't say. Are you able to find out from IO Data what their policy is?

You have got to be in a better position to obtain a faster and more accurate response from them, rather than one of us!


Cheers

Originally posted by jedillwag
Am I missing something.
I have a DVI/HDCP compliant TV, this chip-set in the IO-data player seems to be DVI/HDCP complaint. It seems to be able to scale to very high resolutions if these two devices are connected. What am I not understanding.

So far IODATA doesn't have their HDCP license in place so their Japanese DVI port doesn't do HDCP (the first US version won't have DVI at all). I assume as soon as they have their HDCP license in place a firmware update in Japan will turn on HDCP and the US version with DVI/HDCP will begin to ship.

Originally posted by Paul_PDX
So far IODATA doesn't have their HDCP license in place so their Japanese DVI port doesn't do HDCP (the first US version won't have DVI at all). I assume as soon as they have their HDCP license in place a firmware update in Japan will turn on HDCP and the US version with DVI/HDCP will begin to ship.

Let's hope so! As interested as I am in the DVI version of this product, I can't see myself buying one if I can't watch DVDs via DVI (HDCP-compliant or otherwise) without needing to decrypt to hardrive first. It looks like I'll have to keep waiting to see what IO Data does when they finally release the DVI version here in the U.S.

So far IODATA doesn't have their HDCP license in place so their Japanese DVI port doesn't do HDCP (the first US version won't have DVI at all). I assume as soon as they have their HDCP license in place a firmware update in Japan will turn on HDCP and the US version with DVI/HDCP will begin to ship.

Thats cool, but how do we confirm this.


Now lets move to the AAC-LC 6 Ch, 5.1 Ch audio. How do we get this fixed.

And what about the other bug's, how do you report them to IO Data. Is there a site for this.

Thanks
jedillwag

If the next iteration of this product has DVI w/HDCP, I'm all over it.

Is this fact or fiction.

found on some web page.

http://www.dv.com/print_me.jhtml?articleId=49900167

AAC-LC


The main audio codec in MPEG-4 today is AAC-LC, which is quite competitive. Implementations are all mono or stereo without multichannel support.

Good ol' Wilbert has asked me to post links to two more samples for him...

The first sample is contains: -
mpeg2 video at 1920x1088 pixels with 2Ch AC3 audio as a .ts (transport) stream. And can be found here (http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/mpeg2_ac3_ch20.ts).


The second sample contains: -
avi_ac3.avi (1280x720 XviD + AC3 2.0Ch)
avi_ac3.sub (dutch and english subtitles)
avi_ac3.idx (dutch and english subtitles)

and should be put in the same folder. And can be found here (http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/AVI_AC3_Subs.zip).


Good luck

Originally posted by Erik Garci
There is nothing "bad" about upconverting.

The problem is that the US courts have essentially granted a perpetual monopoly to the DVDCCA for licensing CSS decryption (despite the fact that CSS decryption is not copyrighted, not patented, and not a trade secret). So the DVDCCA makes the rules (with some influence from the movie studios), and the manufacturers of DVD players must follow those rules. One of those rules is that the DVD player cannot produce 720p or 1080i analog output, mainly because such an output cannot be protected by Macrovision in the same way that 480i and 480p can be protected.

Anyway, if you really want to upconvert, but your DVD player does not upconvert, then you can just use an external upconverter. Sure, you would lose some quality because of the D-to-A-to-D conversion, but it is possible at least.

So they think one might try to record 720p or 1080i from the DVI port? That's insane.

Word from IOData is that MPEG2 transport streams will be supported in a December firmware upgrade. Boy this is looking nice.

Originally posted by jedillwag
Is this fact or fiction.

found on some web page.

http://www.dv.com/print_me.jhtml?articleId=49900167

AAC-LC

The main audio codec in MPEG-4 today is AAC-LC, which is quite competitive. Implementations are all mono or stereo without multichannel support. I only quickly scanned thru' the information you linked, which looks like it's about Sorenson Squeeze 4.

Sorenson Squeeze 4 is a mega codec generating application, giving the end user a great many output stream choices.... however, in my opinion it's not worth the money and it's hopeless at generating encodes from Mpeg2 sources!

If you want to generate Mpeg4 video streams with either 2Ch or 6Ch AAC-LC or HE audio, then you've got to go for Nero's Recode2 (which comes within NeroVision Express 3).

Cheers

On the DVD/DVI issue... this only applies when encryption exists (CSS etc)? Or for all VOB files?

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
On the DVD/DVI issue... this only applies when encryption exists (CSS etc)? Or for all VOB files? It looks like it's limited to Mpeg2/DVD's with MacroVision.

But it might be helpful if more detailed tests with say "store bought" DVD's without MacroVision but with region protection, were carried out...


Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

Thanks I will stick to Nero (my favorite software to date), I was just trying to make sure AAC-LC supports mono, Stereo and 6 ch or 5.1.

I do not know if AAC-LC supports 5.1 or 6 ch. I want to make sure so I can post a bug with IO Data.

I know your the guy that can answer this. :)

With regard to my previous comment: -

It looks like it's limited to Mpeg2/DVD's with MacroVision. Keith Jack of Sigma has sent me a private message, which reads as follows: - No...it's based on whether or not the DVD is CSS protected. If CSS protection is used, we check if a DVI/HDCP output is present. If not, the digital video output ports are disabled, disabling any DVI/non-HDCP output.

If they manufacturer is not a HDCP licensee, they do not get access to the HDCP code to enable DVI/HDCP. So the digital video output (and hence the DVI output) gets disabled when playing CSS-protected DVDs.

This is in microcode so manufacturers are not capable of over-riding it through software changes. If they managed to over-ride it somehow, shipments of chips to them would be stopped.
So there we go!

Originally posted by jedillwag
SeeMoreDigital

Thanks I will stick to Nero (my favorite software to date), I was just trying to make sure AAC-LC supports mono, Stereo and 6 ch or 5.1.

I do not know if AAC-LC supports 5.1 or 6 ch. I want to make sure so I can post a bug with IO Data.

I know your the guy that can answer this. :) Just to confirm. Nero's Recode2 currently supports the following settings: -

2Ch (stereo) AAC-LC @ 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 80, 96, 112, 128, 160, 192, 256, 320Kbps
6Ch (aka 5.1) AAC-LC @ 192, 256, 320, 384Kbps

2Ch (stereo) AAC-HE @ 16, 20, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 80, 96, 112, 128Kbps
6Ch (aka 5.1) AAC-HE @ 96, 128, 160, 192, 224, 256, 320, 384Kbps

Mono AAC streams are possible but not within Recode2 itself.

What needs confirmation by either IO Data or Keith Jack, is how 6Ch AAC-LC are able to be heard?


Cheers

EDIT: Typo fixed

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Keith Jack of Sigma has sent me a private message, which reads as follows: ...

Well, it sounds plausible, then, that the version of the player with the DVI output should be able to play DVD Video once IO Data gets their HDCP certification. That is good news (potentially)!

Thanks SeeMoreDigital

is this a Typo? it seems like two 6Ch (aka 5.1) AAC-HE and only one AAC-LC for stereo.

6Ch (aka 5.1) AAC-HE @ 192, 256, 320, 384Kbps

Ooops.... typo fixed...

Cheers

This is slightly off topic but... if a guy was going to get one of these units and desired to convert their collection of MPEG2 high definition transport streams over to a format that would preserve the image quality and DD5.1 audio would the Nero Recode app be a good way to go? I can't find much information on their site about codecs, output resolutions etc.

HookedOnTV

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/nerodigital.htm

I have tried a ts file, a tp file with Nero recode. They were not recognized.

codecs h.263 and H.264.
output resolutions I can not find right now. High

I have a email from Nero basically telling me to keep my pants on for H.264, its coming. Do a search on doom9 for the codec shoot out. And also on google for the Nero h.264.

I have done a HD divx to MP4.
A Xvid to MP4.
DVD's to MP4. This is where the magic is, PM me for more info if you want. I don't want to get in a codec war (because i'll lose) or clutter this thread.

I am still on this quest .ts to mp4 with 5.1.

hope this helps
jedillwag

I sent TUFU the following from my archive of HDTV materials:

1280x720p 29.97 fps DivX 5.03 HD Compliant 6 Mbps w/AC3 (AVI)
1280x720p 29.97 fps XviD 1.0.2 HD Compliant 6 Mbps w/AC3 (AVI)
1280x720p 29.97 WMV9 HD Compliant 6 Mbps w/WMA 9.1 Pro Audio (WMV)
1280x720p 29.97 WMV9 HD VCM Compliant 6 Mbps w/AC3 (AVI)

Please keep me posted if those work or not. Thanks.

For your reference, when I tested the files you guys sent to me, I used
optical digital connecting to AV amplifer DENON 3802 and set the sound
to auto detection. Except one file sent from SMD which was a test file
with clearly 5.1 test sound which I can clearly differentiate the 5.1
channel sounds,other test files when I said sound ok,I just mean I can
hear sound from speakers.

Also,as I had stated previously,the AVLP2 seemed to have optical digital
output problems that meaned stuttering or absence of the sound during
playing DVD-VIDEO. Same phenomenons happened when I tried to play these test files.Sometimes,the sound was ok but after stop and restarted the sound became stuttering,explosive or just absent.I didn't know whether it was a bug of the machine or just my player's problem.

Here were the results:

The 3 files(I lost one"wmv9hd",I'll post it later)from Kermee,all can
played well with sound except there are many green patch artifacts
throughout the film in one file(WMV9VCM). Same things had happened
previously when I made a WMV9 HD files myself. Seemed like there were
some problems with WM9 decoding in AVLP2.

One sample from SMD is TS file(mpeg2_ac3_ch20),the player can take it
initally with no sound and then I stop and restarted ,the sound became
explosive. ThenI switched off the machine and powered it again,
now I can hear the sound normally.
Aother one sample from SMD(avi_ac3 with sub),the player played it well
but NO SUBTITLE.

Some more comments for AVLP2,

1.Original and backup DVD(with CSS and macrovision removed) can all
get component output up to 720p or 1080i.

2.AVLP2 can play HD TS files(1080I OR 720P) directly. It is not
necessary to rename or convert(such as HDTVTOMPEG2)it to mpg file.
But I found some files will have stuttering sound and some will stop
suddenly during playing. Don't know what will be the causes.

3.I created a new NTFS partition in my I-O DATA FAT32 USB2.O
external hard drive and connected it to AVLP2 or my PC.
AVLP2 can only recognze the FAT32 partition.
When I connected the external hard drive to my PC(name:NO),the
AVLP2 will show "advanced avel server on NO" and "USB hard drive
in NO".
But, I can choose the video destination in the AVEL software
to the NTFS partition in USB external hard drive, and then
the AVLP2 can access the NTFS partition even with a file more
than 4G.
But be careful,my I-O DATA USB2.0 hard drive had been
tested to be compatible with AVLP2.So,if you use other brands of
external USB2.0 hard drives which may have the problems of compatibility.

4.AVLP2 CAN NOT play the WMVHD DISC either in it's DVD-ROM or via
ethernet to PC'S DVD-ROM.I had an e-mail to I-O DATA and they said
the Microsoft WMVHD is for PC,that means the format is different from usual DVD-VIDEO.So, AVLP2 is not able to access and play WMVHD disc.
All I can get is a greenish picture when tried to play these discs.
It's very disappoint to me to know this.

Someone please share your expreneces if you have this player.

One more question about VOB files.

AVLP2 and V880-N all read the DVD-VIDEO in hard disc as VOB file.
So, when you ripped DVD-VIDEO to hard disc, you can get 4 or 5 vob files. With chapter search button,you just jump between vob not chapter. So,I think maybe I can rip the DVD by chapter not by VOB with SMARTRIPPER.
For example,when I rip "matchstickman" with smartripper by chapter,it had 30 chapters,so I got 30 VOBfiles VTS_XX_1 to VTS_XX_30.
But when viewed the VIDE0_TS directory from AVLP2,
the AVLP2 showed it with the sequences like
VTS_XX_1
VTS_XX_10
VTS_XX_11
.
.
VTS_XX_19
VTS_XX_2
VTS_XX_21
VTS_XX_22
.
.
VTS_XX_29
VTS_XX_3
VTS_XX_30
VTS_XX_4
VTS_XX_5
VTS_XX_6
.
VTS_XX_9

So,it played from vob1(chapter1) to vob10(chapter10) not vob2.
Maybe I did something wrong.How can I change it to correct sequence?
Can anyone comment on this?

Aother one sample from SMD(avi_ac3 with sub),the player played it well but NO SUBTITLE.
Hmm, this is pretty bad. According to the specs it should support subtitles. Then, it should be able to play at least this clip :(

@all,
Could someone of you contact those iodata guys, and ask how exactly subtitles are supported? Feel free to give them the link to "SMD(avi_ac3 with sub)".

Hi Wilbert,

I had seen the thread in DOOM.
I'd try to acces the file from PC rather than from DVD-ROM and see
whether the subtitle will come out.
Also,I will try various buttons on the remote to reveal possible
subtitle functions.

TUFU - can you rename the VOB files for 2-9 to get rid of the '0'? Example, rename VTS_XX_02 to VTS_XX_2 to match the naming convention of the first VOB. That is the only thing I can think of, though I can't see why it would make a difference.

Originally posted by TUFU

Here were the results:

The 3 files(I lost one"wmv9hd",I'll post it later)from Kermee,all can
played well with sound except there are many green patch artifacts
throughout the film in one file(WMV9VCM). Same things had happened
previously when I made a WMV9 HD files myself. Seemed like there were
some problems with WM9 decoding in AVLP2.

4.AVLP2 CAN NOT play the WMVHD DISC either in it's DVD-ROM or via
ethernet to PC'S DVD-ROM.I had an e-mail to I-O DATA and they said
the Microsoft WMVHD is for PC,that means the format is different from usual DVD-VIDEO.So, AVLP2 is not able to access and play WMVHD disc.
All I can get is a greenish picture when tried to play these discs.
It's very disappoint to me to know this.



So this basically means all 10 items on amazon when you search WMVHD, are worthless. And this means the WMVHD files "many green patch artifacts throughout" are worthless as well (unless bug fix comes out). Maybe this is why this format has been out for about a year or two and nobody uses it. I know some people like to convert to this format, but I do not understand why. Someone shed some light on this for me. What do people do take a DVD and encode it to WMVHD, or Divx HD, or Xvid HD. Are there guides for this on doom, i did not see them.

Let me see (tell me if I am wrong - I want to be wrong)

1. We can download Divx HD trailers and watch them on the AVLP2.
Where is there more Divx HD content?
2. We can download WMVHD trailers and watch green patches dance around. And we can not purchase or rent any WMVHD disk's and play them in the AVLP2. Maybe this is why I seen the Terminator T2 extreme in the clearance bin at wall-mart for 5 bucks.
3. We can watch our recorded TV shows off of our myhd120 card's *.ts files, but have to wait for a fix because of sound and playback stopping.

What other HD content is out there?

And can someone please answer the question does this player supports Qpel. http://forums.divx.com/viewtopic.php?forum=21&topic=62327
I read the manual over and over and can not find it.

I want this player to work so bad, so I can ditch my HTPC.
:) :)
jedillwag

...

Thanks Dolfo, You solved my problem.
Actually,the first 9 VOB files were VTS_XX_1 to VTS_XX_9.
I renamed them to 01 .. 09, then AVLP2 had correct sequences
from 01-09,then 10-30.
Now,the problem is that there will have a little pause between change of VOB files during playing.

Also,I had tested Kermee's another file(WMV9HD COMPLIANT6). The good is no green patch artifact during playing, and the bad is no sound.
Only when I accesse the file in my PC and used its decoding ,then I can have normal sound.

Sorry, I'm not allowed to posts urls when having less than 5 posts :(

1. We can download Divx HD trailers and watch them on the AVLP2.
Where is there more Divx HD content?
I thought I posted some samples (ok, those where were XviD HD). The ones with AC3 play fine. We still don't know if it plays subs.


3. We can watch our recorded TV shows off of our myhd120 card's *.ts files, but have to wait for a fix because of sound and playback stopping.
ts: mpeg2+AC3 Ch2.0 plays fine, where fine means:
"One sample from SMD is TS file(mpeg2_ac3_ch20), the player can take it initally with no sound and then I stop and restarted, the sound became explosive. ThenI switched off the machine and powered it again, now I can hear the sound normally."

This was a file of a few seconds, so we should try longer files.

ts: mpeg2+AC3 Ch5.1 no idea ...

Divx HD, or Xvid HD. Are there guides for this on doom, i did not see them.
some info:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49349
http://82.2.167.237/51_HiDef_Encodes.html

but you are right, there's no good guide. (Btw, this forum has a guide to HDWMV somewhere ...)

Originally posted by TUFU
Also,I had tested Kermee's another file(WMV9HD COMPLIANT6). The good is no green patch artifact during playing, and the bad is no sound.
Only when I accesse the file in my PC and used its decoding ,then I can have normal sound.

Thanks for testing these TUFU.

I find it odd and surprising that the WMV9 HD .WMV didn't have audio. The audio is WMA 9.1 Pro (384 kbps / 2 channel). As with the other WMV9 encode, it basically sounds like the player "kind of" likes WMV9 HD encapsulated in AVI via the VCM method but with "green splashes".

TUFU, I'll make up another WMV9 HD .WMV sample with an earlier version of WMA and see if you get audio out of that one.

Also, can you do me a huge favor and check the RCA L/R plugs for audio on the WMV9HD .WMV one? I wonder if the player is resampling the WMA 9.1 Pro down to stereo.

Thanks!

-Kermee

Originally posted by Wilbert
but you are right, there's no good guide. (Btw, this forum has a guide to HDWMV somewhere ...)

I would be willing to write guides to encoding HDTV content to WMV9-HD (WMV), WMV9-HD (VCM/AVI), DivX 5.0.3 (DivX 5.2.1 Pro encoder using DivX-HD Certified template), and XviD 1.0.2 (Koepi's Builds making DivX-HD Certified compliant streams)...

... however since there are many different pieces of hardware available to capture HDTV streams these days, the guides would assume you know how to demux the AC3 audio out of the transport stream and 'prep' the HDTV transport or program stream to be used by DGIndex (formerly DVD2AVI) and frame-served through AVISynth.

-Kermee

With regard to Sigma's chip-set and Windows Media Video files, it seems there are pixel frame limitations: -


Can the EM8620L Series decode high-definition programs?

Yes. The following high-definition sources are supported (maximum values):

MPEG-2: One 1280x720p60, 1920x1080i30 or 1920x1080p30 program
MPEG-4: One 1280x720p30 program
WMV9: One 1280x720p30 or 1440x1040p24 (1.85:1 anamorphic) program
For high-definition broadcast (HDTV) applications, we recommend the EM8610 Series.Personally speaking, I can't see anybody wanting to generate WMV9 encodes using an anamorphic frame with 1040 vertical pixels - why not 1080?

And with regard to Mpeg2 pixel sizes. As you can see, the chip-set supports 1920x1080 (which is nice). However, I wonder whether 1920x1088 encodes will crash the player?


Just thinking out loud ;)

I am almost sure that the 1440x1040 anamorphic is a typo and is suppose to read 1440x1080p24. However interesting, if it is in fact not a typo, 1040 is divisible by 16.

Originally posted by Kermee
I am almost sure that the 1440x1040 anamorphic is a typo and is suppose to read 1440x1080p24. However interesting, if it is in fact not a typo, 1040 is divisible by 16. Hopefully you're right!

That said, although WMV9 generates great looking high-def encodes, many of Microsoft's 1080p HD test files on their WMV HD Content Showcase web site (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx) are anamorphic or cropped anamorphic.

Given, that many people will want to convert their Mpeg2 1920x1080 interlaced captures to a format with a much smaller file size, I personally would go for Mpeg4 1280x720 progressive.

The main reason being, it's much faster at generating 2pass encodes....


Cheers

Originally posted by TUFU
4.AVLP2 CAN NOT play the WMVHD DISC either in it's DVD-ROM or via
ethernet to PC'S DVD-ROM.I had an e-mail to I-O DATA and they said
the Microsoft WMVHD is for PC,that means the format is different from usual DVD-VIDEO.So, AVLP2 is not able to access and play WMVHD disc.
All I can get is a greenish picture when tried to play these discs.
It's very disappoint to me to know this.

I was going to try to grab a review copy of the player to test the non-DVI US version, but now it does not seem like it will be worth the effort. If it can't play Dolphins or Coral Reef Adventure, then it's basically a boat anchor for me.

Later,
Bill

Originally posted by Ursa
I was going to try to grab a review copy of the player to test the non-DVI US version, but now it does not seem like it will be worth the effort. If it can't play Dolphins or Coral Reef Adventure, then it's basically a boat anchor for me.

Later,
Bill

It does seem kinda silly to have a WMV-HD player that can't play WMV-HD disks. This seems targeted more toward people who create their own videos at home if this is true, which seems like a much smaller audience then people who just want to watch available pre-recorded HD media on their expensive HD TVs :(

My bet is that iodata rushed this out before they had a DRM solution in place -- that would explain why no DVI/HDCP and no commercial WHVHD (encrypted WMVHD). Iodata has announced support for commercial movies from CinemaNow and Iodata mentions the WMVHD showcase from Microsoft as with DVI I imagine it is coming -- the only questions are will it come from Kiss or Iodata first?? and who will have better quality and support (or the best opensource support)?

Ursa, Dolfo and Paul_PDX,

Before everybody starts to panic over WMV9 playback, we need to establish from TUFU the pixel frame size of the WMV9 encodes he tried.

As I reported in my earlier post, 1920x1080 pixel sizes are not supported but 1280x720 are!

TUFU, can you confirm the pixel frame sizes of the WMV9 encodes you tried?


Cheers

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Ursa, Dolfo and Paul_PDX,

Before everybody starts to panic over WMV9 playback, we need to establish from TUFU the pixel frame size of the WMV9 encodes he tried.

As I reported in my earlier post, 1920x1080 pixel sizes are not supported but 1280x720 are!

TUFU, can you confirm the pixel frame sizes of the WMV9 encodes you tried?


Cheers

I really hope that's it - there are too many good features here to not support commercial WMV-HD in some form. How many pixel frame sizes were available on the T2 disk? I know the other WMV-HD disks come with both 720p and 1080p versions.

Originally posted by Dolfo
I really hope that's it - there are too many good features here to not support commercial WMV-HD in some form. How many pixel frame sizes were available on the T2 disk? I know the other WMV-HD disks come with both 720p and 1080p versions. Before we all get carried away again... I don't believe we will ever be able to play high-def WMV9 DVD's like T2.... because they are encrypted and require a downloadable licence.

In all honesty I can't see Micro$oft releasing any HD movies in the near future for use with stand-alones... and not before they are happy with how proposed players will connect to the internet and store licencing information.

And you can be sure when M$ is happy that it's protocols can't get hacked, we'll see some new looking logo to inform us all ;)


Cheers

This is in IODATAs FAQ --

Windows Media® Technology (WMT)
It may be the most popular codec in the world. This codec is based on Microsoft Windows. Everybody can easily compress or transecode anything to this format. The video format name is Windows Media® Video (WMV) and the audio is Windows Media® Audio (WMA).
Actually these formats have some types and versions. "AVeL LinkPlayer" supports the most popular one, WMV9. Microsoft and CinemaNow is releasing some movies. And also we can support all WMA audio types, WMA1 (mono), WMA2, and WMA Pro (5.1ch). Of course, Microsoft have their own encryption "WMT DRM" and we can support it, too.
(*) WMT DRM and WMA Pro support firmware will be released on Nov 2004.

We will have to wait and see what comes of it (personally I don't expect T2 HD DVD to work either (because of the interactual involvement with the content management) but I do expect protected content using Microsofts DRM will be playable sometime in the near term to be able to support services such as CinemaNow).

I don't know what to think. If we drop the money for this device, should'nt we have a clear projected path of what this thing is going to do for us. Or are we not supposed to pay attention to the man behind the curtain.

from IO Data web site

["Got HD!?" Available Download Sites] Update: Oct/15/2004
- DivX.com Movies (DivXŽ HD review movies available)
There is nothing at this site a couple of trailers. WOW, I know that sounds bad, but I also know you are all just like me where's the content. When are we going to be able to pick up a DivX HD disk at the local move rental. I would bet A loonngg time. So how about Downloading some DivX HD movie content, ya just as long i think.

- Microsoft WMV HD showcase
Same thing here some trailers, I just can't believe that this HD format has been out for so long and really no one cares. Most people do not have the machine to run this disk, and even more do not have it connected to there TV. What a waste if this player is not going to get these disk's (T2 Extreme) off of the computers.

- CinemaNow (Now under construction)
So i have looked at the site. If they make it a place where this content (the files above) can be purchased, saved to your hard drive. well we could be getting some were.


I will still be happy with this player once we confirm the AAC-LC 6 ch sound, and Qpel support. With a 4 gig DVD shrunk down to 1.5 gig no visible loss of quality. Stored on a fire-wire drive connected to the PC. Sent via LAN to the player connected via DVI to the display and scaled to 720p. (Stop me here if I got this all wrong)


And for all my other content over the years .ts files, xvid's, And Divx.

I really hope the screen GUI is going to be customizable, support cover art. PIP would be cool to, A screen pop of the Album art while you navigate the song selection?

I know my wife says I'm nuts too.
Just talking out loud again.
Jedillwag

So this basically means all 10 items on amazon when you search WMVHD, are worthless. And this means the WMVHD files "many green patch artifacts throughout" are worthless as well (unless bug fix comes out). Maybe this is why this format has been out for about a year or two and nobody uses it. I know some people like to convert to this format, but I do not understand why. Someone shed some light on this for me. What do people do take a DVD and encode it to WMVHD, or Divx HD, or Xvid HD. Are there guides for this on doom, i did not see them.

I like the WM9 format because it's efficient, portable, and TMPGEnc Xpress3.0 is all I have to encode with. It does a beautiful job rendering mpeg2TS 720p30 from a JVC GR-HD1 camcorder. Xpress 3.0 has an excellent set of filters too.

Back on topic...

I think I read that the AVLP2 only supports WM9 1280x720 at up to 8 mb/s. Might explain some of the green patches.

The paragraph SeeMoreDigital posted from Sigma on the EM8620L says WM9 1280x720p30...fine for me because that's the native format of my camcorder, but WTF? It should do full 720p which is 60fps!

I have to admit,

If I ever get round to buying one of these players. I will use it for playing, store bought DVD's and encodes I've generated myself, whether they be std-def (ie: 720x480/576 anamorphic), high-def (ie: 1280x720) or anything in between!

I'm really not bothered about being able to spin WMV9 HD disc's... As I don't like were M$'s licencing and big-brother attitude might take us...

Should 1080i HDTV ever make it "on-mass" in europe, I will love the prospect of being able re-encode it to Mpeg4 1280x720p.

When generating my own HD tests at around 3.5Mbps, the resulting encodes looked excellent. And at this bitrate you can store over 2 hours of material on a single sided, single layered DVD~R/RW... which I think is ideal.


Cheers

How does this thing handle subtitles? Do they need to be muxed into the avi? Burned into the image? Seperate ssa or srt file?

When generating my own HD tests at around 3.5Mbps, the resulting encodes looked excellent. And at this bit rate you can store over 2 hours of material on a single sided, single layered DVD~R/RW... which I think is ideal.

You can get nearly 5 mb/s (video + audio) on a 2 hour single layer DVD.

But in my case with 30 fps, even 5 mb/s WM9 is on the margin for hi-def, 8 mb/s is starting to get good, and 9.2 mb/s is where the encode becomes virtually indistinguishable from the source.

Remember, the WM9 720p trailers are only 24 fps. They can succeed with a lower bit rate than 30 fps video.

How does this thing handle subtitles? Do they need to be muxed into the avi? Burned into the image? Seperate ssa or srt file?
You can't mux subs into avi (well, you can mux ssa and perhaps other formats into avi with avimux, but not many software players support that). In theory it should be able to play avi+external subs (*.sub and perhaps *.srt). TUFU tested some of these streams (I will send him a few other ones), but the subs didn't show up. Perhaps he can send a mail to these iodata guys, asking about this ...

1. The WM9 file I made was 1280x720 which was transcoded from a 720p
HD TS film with HT MPEGENCODER 7.0 choosing "windows media codec 9".

2. Hi Kermee,I had connected AVLP2's analog stereo sound output to test
the file without sound. The result is still no sound.

3.I also was told that I-O DATA in Japan are going to release a new firmware in the end of November which will support WMA PRO. I don't know
whether WMT DRM will also be included. I hope so.

4.Regarding the issue of subtitle, I had got one responsefrom here

http://forums.divx.com/viewtopic.php?topic=61648&forum=21

Has anybody got a reply regarding the DVI output of DVD-V?
I am very exited about this device.
It has everything I want. But the DVI issue is a showstopper for me.

What's the latest on being able to play "store-bought" DVDs w/ Macrovision, etc., at HD resoultions?

David

Compared to the Momitsu V880N, how is this better?

Noticed that IO Data is showing this unit is now in stock in the US. Hope we get a few more 'testers' out there. ;)

Originally posted by dschamis
Compared to the Momitsu V880N, how is this better?

The Momitsu upconverts regular video (DVDs and such), but I don't believe it supports playback of HD video such as Divx-HD and WMV-HD. That is the main difference, though this difference isn't so significant to some people due to the short supply of commercial video that uses either of these HD schemes. I already have an upconverting DVD player and would like to replace it with a player that does the same and adds networking and HD playback of some sort. It looks like this IO Data player is shaping up to be that replacement, but I may be looking at the Momitsu player more if they don't fix some of the bugs that I consider significant by the time they launch the DVI version in the U.S. We'll see.

Originally posted by lowmazda
Noticed that IO Data is showing this unit is now in stock in the US. Hope we get a few more 'testers' out there. ;)

Just checked my online order status...order date 11/02/04

- not shipped -

Originally posted by Tom Roper
Some of you asking questions will find the answers if you read the thread.


Tom - I realize this, and I know it is seen as obnoxious to the people who have been following this day-to-day, but sometimes it is much more efficient, when you have a very specific question, to just post it and look for a quick reponse.

Thanks,

David

Originally posted by Busybusy
IO data player WILL NOT allow playing back DVD movies from DVI, and if Macrovision is on, then there will be no 720P/1080i from the D4 connector. Regardless of Sigma Chip's capability, it's each manufacturer's decision to follow DVD Forum/Macrovision's requirements.

The DVI output is not HDCP because playing back movies/Divx from HD/PC who cares about HDCP?

This is very, very clearly stated and my biggest reservation.


Does this mean that we can't get 1080i/720p from any store-bought DVDs, regardless of whether we use DVI or component?

Originally posted by dschamis
Does this mean that we can't get 1080i/720p from any store-bought DVDs, regardless of whether we use DVI or component?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you can get upconverted 1080i or 720p DVD-V from the analog component output but not the DVI output.

Originally posted by gtrogue
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you can get upconverted 1080i or 720p DVD-V from the analog component output but not the DVI output.

TUFU mentioned on page 6 of this thread that:

"The DVD-VIDEO in DVD-ROM can only output from component , S or composite NOT DVI. But,DVD-VIDEO in DVD-ROM can toggle between 480p,720p,1080i in my projector Mitsubishi D1208 which was HDCP comliable"

TUFU, can you please confirm this? Do commercial DVDs (with macrovision) play AS IS via component output from the player's DVD-ROM drive at upconverted HD resolutions?

I asked this question via email to I-O Data and this is the response I received. This seems to conflict with what TUFU has reported. But even the response I received below seems conflicting. For my needs, I really need to know if this player does upconvert store bought DVDs (or DVD back-up copies).

Dear Michael,

I have some feedback from our engineer.

> when I play a DVD movie disc if the player will upconvert through
> component jacks from 480p to 720p and 1080i

Our LinkPlayer doesn't have such a function unfortunately.

Therefore, if you just enjoy 480p DVD playback on HD TV. Basically 480p source is 480p source.

Our LinkPlayer is providing the best 480p / 720p / 1080i by
each video quality with some digital tuning (4tapInterpolation and
others).

The language difference makes any answers you get hard to decipher from these guys.
Perhaps your question confused them. Standard NTSC DVD-Video discs do not contain 480p video.

I think it's pretty clear from TUFU and I-O Data:

1.) The U.S. spec player doesn't have DVI.
2.) Store-bought (encrypted) DVDs will not up-convert.
3.) Decrypted DVDs will up-convert to 720p/1080i.

Go elsewhere for mainstream upconverting DVD players.

Originally posted by Tom Roper
I think it's pretty clear from TUFU and I-O Data:

1.) The U.S. spec player doesn't have DVI.
2.) Store-bought (encrypted) DVDs will not up-convert.
3.) Decrypted DVDs will up-convert to 720p/1080i.

Go elsewhere for mainstream upconverting DVD players.

TUFU - can you confirm Tom's conclusions (except, of course, the first one - we already know that the U.S. will see 2 versions of this player and that one of them will have DVI and wireless LAN support as the Japanese version does)? I thought one of your posts implied that store-bought DVDs do upconvert via component output.

My unit shipped!!!!!!!!

Just got email confirmation....Fed Ex 2nd day

Should have it Friday (fingers crossed)

Originally posted by gtrogue
....Standard NTSC DVD-Video disc's do not contain 480p video. Yes they do!

Both PAL and NTSC DVD's can store video "progressively"


Cheers

@TUFU,

Two more samples (with *internal* subtitles, muxed with avimux):

1) XviD+ac3+srt
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/avi_ac3_srt.avi

2) XviD+ac3+ssa
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/avi_ac3_ssa.avi

Originally posted by Tom Roper
I think it's pretty clear from TUFU and I-O Data:

1.) The U.S. spec player doesn't have DVI.
2.) Store-bought (encrypted) DVDs will not up-convert.
3.) Decrypted DVDs will up-convert to 720p/1080i.

Go elsewhere for mainstream upconverting DVD players.


That's all I need to hear - I just pulled the trigger on the Momitsu V880N - I love being a guinea pig as much as the next guy, but not being able to up-convert store-bought DVDs is more than I feel like handling right now.

David

Hi Wilbert,

Something's wrong Captain. All I get is this: -

http://img60.exs.cx/img60/262/Wilberts_encodes.gif


Cheers

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Yes they do!

Both PAL and NTSC DVD's can store video "progressively"


Cheers

I've never bought a commercially available DVD that had "progressive" video on it.

Originally posted by gtrogue
I've never bought a commercially available DVD that had "progressive" video on it.

Me neither. I don't even know of any DVDs that have 480p programmed onto it, though I guess it is possible to do so.

Originally posted by gtrogue
I've never bought a commercially available DVD that had "progressive" video on it.

They are rare in U.S.

They do exist.

On the subtitle front.
Here's what I got from I-O Data:

"Thank you for the message.

Our LinkPlayer supports:
1. DVD movie subtitle
2. DivX subtitles (SRT, BMP, and others)

Thanks."

Isn't there an edition of Digital Video Essentials that has true progressive scan video on it. I seem to remember some talk about this in regards to DVE.

Originally posted by gtrogue
I've never bought a commercially available DVD that had "progressive" video on it. You've got to be kidding....

Most if not all commercially released "movie" DVD's are progressive!

They are of course all a released within an 720x480 or 720x576 anamorphic frame.

Why do you think we have stand-alone players that are labelled as having "progressive output"?


Cheers

Originally posted by gtrogue
Isn't there an edition of Digital Video Essentials that has true progressive scan video on it. I seem to remember some talk about this in regards to DVE.

Right you are! This fact is mentioned on the Secret Benchmark for Home Theater website also...

SeeMoreDigital, you're kidding, right?

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
You've got to be kidding....

Most if not all commercially released "movie" DVD's are progressive!

They are of course all a released within an 720x480 or 720x576 anamorphic frame.

Why do you think we have stand-alone players that are labelled as having "progressive output"?


Cheers

No no...most are encoded interlaced at 24 fps, 480i. Progressive output from the player is a consequence of the 3:2 pulldown circuitry of the deinterlacing chip.

@TUFU, SMD,

Please try to download them tomorrow (dumb geocities limitations :)).

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
You've got to be kidding....

Most if not all commercially released "movie" DVD's are progressive!

They are of course all a released within an 720x480 or 720x576 anamorphic frame.

Why do you think we have stand-alone players that are labelled as having "progressive output"?


Cheers

I'm not sure about European video standards, but this is not true in the U.S. Progressive Scan DVD players convert the 480i video to 480p using 3:2 pulldown (as stated by Tom Roper) - they do NOT play an alternate video format stored on the disk.

I think a "progressive" discussion is better suited within another thread, perhaps even another forum!

For instance, don't forget, not all DVD's are NTSC and as such don't utilize 3:2 pulldown. And just because DVD's are not run at "film speed" (ie: 24fps) does not mean the video can't be progressive!

I watch PAL progressive DVD's all the time... I also have PAL interlaced DVD's - mostly music video titles and TV series to DVD.


Cheers

Is a DVD containing true progressive video still considered compliant with the NTSC standard?

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
You've got to be kidding....

Most if not all commercially released "movie" DVD's are progressive!

They are of course all a released within an 720x480 or 720x576 anamorphic frame.

Why do you think we have stand-alone players that are labelled as having "progressive output"?

Cheers

-Off topic-
Progressive output is assembled in the players that support it the content is interlaced on all Region 1 NTSC disks (I can't speak for other zones).
The DVD spec allows for both but since most TVs are interlaced in the US the movie industry adopted a interlaced approach for all film and video sourced material (based on 60hz). 3/2 pulldown or movie mode in a player is the process of reconstructing the 24p progressive nature of film mode.

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I think a "progressive" discussion is better suited within another thread, perhaps even another forum!

For instance, don't forget, not all DVD's are NTSC and as such don't utilize 3:2 pulldown. And just because DVD's are not run at "film speed" (ie: 24fps) does not mean the video can't be progressive!

I watch PAL progressive DVD's all the time... I also have PAL interlaced DVD's - mostly music video titles and TV series to DVD.


Cheers

As I mentioned before - I don't know about European formats (i.e. PAL). That is why my post (and others apparently) was exclusively about U.S. DVDs (which all - or mostly, except for some specialty DVDs probably - actually do use the NTSC format as stated by Paul_PDX). This is all in response to gtrogue's post that stated that "Standard NTSC DVD-Video disc's do not contain 480p video" so it makes sense that we talk about capabilities of NTSC DVDs.

Whatever I-O DATA and Sigma had said,here are my conclusions about
playing DVD-VIDEO in AVLP2.

1.Store-bought and BACKUP DVD-VIEOO can output via component not DVI.
But I can choose either composite,S,component 480i,480p,720p and 1080i. Even store-bought region 2 DVD-VIDEO which are copy
protected can still choose 720p or 1080i in my projector Mitsubishi D1208 which are HDCP compliant and AE100(HDCP COMPLIANT?). So,I don't know whether copy protected DVD-VIDEO will not get 720p or 1080i component in non-HDCP compliable displayer as some had commented previously.

Hope this will clarify the issues of playing DVD-VIDEO in AVLP2.

As reported a few days ago...

According to Keith Jack (of Sigma Designs). It would seem IO Data have not yet sorted out their HDCP licence.... and until the do, the player will not be able to pump CSS protected Mpeg2 DVD streams thru' the DVI connector!

So it's just a matter of waiting....


Cheers

Originally posted by TUFU
Whatever I-O DATA and Sigma had said,here are my conclusions about
playing DVD-VIDEO in AVLP2.

1.Store-bought and BACKUP DVD-VIEOO can output via component not DVI.
But I can choose either composite,S,component 480i,480p,720p and 1080i. Even store-bought region 2 DVD-VIDEO which are copy
protected can still choose 720p or 1080i in my projector Mitsubishi D1208 which are HDCP compliant and AE100(HDCP COMPLIANT?). So,I don't know whether copy protected DVD-VIDEO will not get 720p or 1080i component in non-HDCP compliable displayer as some had commented previously.

Hope this will clarify the issues of playing DVD-VIDEO in AVLP2.

Unfortunately, it confuses me when you bring the Mitsubishi D1208, AE100 and HDCP into the same discussion, because
a.) I don't know anything about those projectors
b.) More importantly, HDCP pertains to DVI/HDMI, not component video outputs.

So on the one hand, you seem to be saying that you can upscale store-bought and backup DVD-Video via component to 480p/720p/1080i (which is great if true), but then you say even store-bought region 2 DVD-Video can choose to upscale 720p or 1080i in your projector, which you must be referring to DVI/HDMI because you also say they are HDCP compliant which has nothing to do with component video. See where I am getting confused?

I may have jumped the gun when I said it will not upconvert store-bought DVD-Video to 720p/1080i via component, but if I am wrong, this will be the first U.S. spec. player since the now defunct Zenith DV318 to upscale protected DVD-Video content over the component outputs.

That seems unlikely in view of forward looking statements on the Sigma website. Sigma has stated on their news releases, that they have been sued by the MPAA, and since settled with them, after agreeing to enact and implement all protections required by the MPAA. Keith Jack has said about as much in this thread, as well.

I'm speculating that this may be the reason why we yanks are getting a different Linkplayer2 initially, than you have in Taiwan.

Anyway, we're going to know soon enough...my player should arrive on Friday, and I will report on its ability to upscale store bought, protected DVD-Video over the component outputs, and reminding everyone else that this first U.S. spec. model does not include a DVI/HDMI output.

Thanks TUFU -- do any of your DVDs specifically have a Macrovision logo on them (disks can be encrypted but not have macrovision). I think Sigma is using Macrovision as their key for deciding that upscaling shouldn't happen.

Hi Tom,

It seemed that I made some confusion with HDCP to component.
Just like you say,AVLP2 can upconvert DVD-VIDEO to 480P/720P/1080i via component whether the DVD-VIDEO are store bought with copy protection or backup DVD-VIDEO. But it was just for my player. I'm not sure what will be in US version .Wait for your report to clarify this issue.
I need someone to correct my mistakes after I had said so much in this thread.Please share your experiences as soon as possible.

TUFU, you're the reason why this topic is a success. Thanks for clarifying, and sharing so much time and energy! PLEASE carry on!
Tom

Originally posted by Paul_PDX
Thanks TUFU -- do any of your DVDs specifically have a Macrovision logo on them (disks can be encrypted but not have macrovision). I think Sigma is using Macrovision as their key for deciding that upscaling shouldn't happen.

OK, I'm not sure about this. I had played up to 5 store bought region 2 discs(movies,cartoons from Japan),all can do upconvert. I'll try to find out whether thy really have a Macrovision.

MACROVISION?

Paul, are you sure about this? I can't find a Macrovision Logo anywhere. Not on any box, not on any disk

Macrovision as my recollection would have it, was a protection scheme used to protect VHS tapes, by inserting something into the vertical blanking interval that would cause unwatchable roll or jitter in the playback device.

I didn't think they used, or needed that for DVD, where encryption is the rule? Am I wrong?

I can see where macrovision in the VBI could be useful to prevent a VCR or DVDR from making analog copies of a DVD disk played from another player. Are they still using this?

http://www.iodata.com/catalogs/AVLP2DVDLA_Rev1.0J.pdf

http://www.iodata.com/manuals/AVLP2_DVDLA%20B-MANU200080-02.pdf

Manual says:

No support for WMA-9 Pro

Supported formats:
WMA max 192kb/s 48khz
mp3 max 192 kb/s
pcm/wave
ogg vorbis max 192 kb/s
AAC max 192 kb/s
DivX,Xvid 1.5mb/s
mpeg1/2/4 12mb/s
wmv9 8 mb/s

Max file size:
AVI(Divx,Xvid) 2gb
mpeg 4gb fat 32 2 TB NTFS
wmv9 4gb fat 32 2 TB NTFS

Originally posted by Tom Roper
MACROVISION?
Rest of post clipped

Macrovision is an analog copy protection scheme. On an analog output like component, s-video, etc, Macrovision comes into play. It does cause roll and jitter in the image. It's the reason you can't run a DVD player through a VCR. On a digital output like DVI Macrovision isn't used.

I've never heard of Macrovision having anything to do with limiting resolution on a component output.
Limiting upconverted output on unprotected DVI is completely stupid. The bandwidth requirements to record the uncompressed digital signal is incredible. I don't know of any recording device available to consumers that could even record it.

Up until very recently, capture cards that could record analog HD video were outrageously expensive. I've seen a few recently that are only a few thousand dollars. Of course you also have to buy a transcoder to convert the signal to HD-SDI if the source device doesn't already include an HD-SDI output and a wicked fast computer with tons of storage.

Hello Gentlemen,
I own a AVLP1 since the very beggining and I bought an AVLP2 but I returned back to the shop because It didn't comply with my expectations. (It doesn't mean it is no the most powerfull network/file/dvd player ever for me.)

[list=1]Having integrated wireless 802.11G network interface you can connect at up to 54 Mbps to the media server.
AVLP1 The previous model doesn't have an integrated wifi card, so I installed an IO Data mini pc-card format wireless network adapter on the pcmcia bay. But since it is located in the rear of the player, I think it gets interference from all the devices that I have connected to the TV. So the signal gets too weak to play videos. [/list=1]
[list=1] AVLP2 On the other hand, has an antenna so the signal recpetion becomes stronger.[/list=1]
[list=1] I don't have much problems trying to get DVI or High Definition output, since my movies or inputs are in lower resolution than the size of the screen. So Video Component works fine for me.
Regarding the video standards I had a lot of Pal DVDs and they play fine on my NTSC TV.[/list=1]
[list=1] I connected two different USB Hard Disks, full of DIVX files, but I couldn't see their contents.[/list=1]
[list=1]Even the specification at the manual says that supports subtitles in file mode, .srt, .sub subtitles cannto be shown on both models.
I contacted IO Data people and they said that they are waiting for th DIVX standard to support subtitles. [/list=1]
[list=1]Japanese people says since the DVD player was built only for local market, there is no hidden multiregion change trick. So changing regions is not possible. [/list=1]

Supported Media Format (*1) DVD-Video / Video CD / CD-ROM / CD-DA / DVD-ROM
Media Type: DVD -R / -RW / +R / +RW / CD-R / -RW

(*1) Some DVD-ROM and DVD Video, which are created by DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-R or DVD-RW, may be albe to play.
(*2) WMT DRM and WMA Pro will need the firmware update later

________________________________________

Also said to be certified to play DivX-HD hi-def video. But elsewhere, the bit rate for DivX is said to only be 1.5 mb/s. What kind of sick joke is that?

The video D/A converter is 148.5 MHz/12 bit <-- Good spec!

Firmware update mentioned above for Windows Media Technology - Digital Rights Management is not yet available for download. But what's implied there with that is that it should be able to play WMV-HD DVDs like T2.

Just finished reading about everything...including 72 pages of owners manual online.

I can't find any reference to it not being able to upconvert DVD-Video to 480p/720p/1080i via component. If true, this is the first DVD player since the discontinued Zenith DVB318 to upconvert to 1080i via component.

Proof is in the pudding...tapping fingers 'til Friday...Hurry up FedEx.

Welcome to this forum ,MIYOSHI.

It is sad to hear that you had returned the player to the shop.
Even the player are available in US market now,I think with your
knowledge esp. in Japanese can still help us (especially me) to get the newest informations of AVLP2.

I'd like to ask some questions,

1.Do you experience any stuttering or explosive sound during playing with DVD-VIDEO or files from hard disc? Or, do you read any complaints about this in Japan?

2.Do you know whether anyone try to swap the DVD-ROM to make it region free?

3.It's a good news to hear that PAL discs can play well in your system.
I only owned one PAL disc(LES UNS et LES AUTRES) and I had frequent
stuttering or pause during playing. Maybe it was just my player's
problem.

4.Can you confirm there will have a firmware upgrade in the end of November and include support for WMA PRO OR WMT DRM?

THANKS

TUFU and all you others who already have the AVLP2/DVDG:

Do you experience that the machine locks up when you watch pictures over the network from DVI@720p or DVI@1080i? I get this problem when running AVEL Link Server and Neuston Media Center (NMC) on my Mac. Same problem also appears when I try to browse internet with DVI@720p using NMC. I have the latest firmware installed.

/BE

Originally posted by Tom Roper

Also said to be certified to play DivX-HD hi-def video. But elsewhere, the bit rate for DivX is said to only be 1.5 mb/s. What kind of sick joke is that?


I thought the same thing. However, TUFU says he can play the 1280x720p 6Mbps DivX file that Kermee posted earlier in this thread.

when is the DVI version coming out?

Reportedly in early '05.

Originally posted by Tom Roper
I can't find any reference to it not being able to upconvert DVD-Video to 480p/720p/1080i via component. If true, this is the first DVD player since the discontinued Zenith DVB318 to upconvert to 1080i via component.

Proof is in the pudding...tapping fingers 'til Friday...Hurry up FedEx.

I know this is OT for this player's discussion, but given your comments, I have to ask: does the 880N not do this? If not, then I missed a big part of that discussion. How about VGA from the DVI via adapter? The basic 880 has DVI-I, which means I can use a DVI-VGA adapter to get analog RGB to my projector as well. Does the I-O support that?

Also, does anyone have any info on the Kiss DP-600? I hear from my distributor that it will be out in a couple of weeks in the US. Months ago when I emailed KISS in Europe they said the player available in the US WOULD upscale via component. If that is true, this one also has network, WM9 (based on the same chipset as the I-O) and adds internet radio as well.

and adds internet radio as well.

IO Data already have Internet Radio, RSS and Internet surfing if you use the Neuston Media Center instead of the supplied AVEL Link Server.

Originally posted by Bjorn_E
IO Data already have Internet Radio, RSS and Internet surfing if you use the Neuston Media Center instead of the supplied AVEL Link Server.

Is there any downside to using this? Do you have it running? I knew people had tried it on the 880N, but did not know about it on this DVD player. Will it play VIDEO_TS files from your network? Have you tried the Mac version of the server on the I-O?

Originally posted by mikemav
I know this is OT for this player's discussion, but given your comments, I have to ask: does the 880N not do this? If not, then I missed a big part of that discussion. How about VGA from the DVI via adapter? The basic 880 has DVI-I, which means I can use a DVI-VGA adapter to get analog RGB to my projector as well. Does the I-O support that?

Also, does anyone have any info on the Kiss DP-600? I hear from my distributor that it will be out in a couple of weeks in the US. Months ago when I emailed KISS in Europe they said the player available in the US WOULD upscale via component. If that is true, this one also has network, WM9 (based on the same chipset as the I-O) and adds internet radio as well.

I might have jumped the gun mikemav. The V880N is not on my radar because I'm looking for WMV-HD playback support. Here is a link comparing AVLP2 to V880N Momitsu (http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/AVLP2_Compare.php). It appears the chief differences are due to the Sigma EM8620L in the I-O Data versus the EM8550 in the Momitsu, allowing true HD playback in the I-O Data with DivX-HD or WMV-HD, versus an active DVI connection for the Momitsu. There's your choice for now.

I've followed the KiSS 600 for many weeks. It's always 2 weeks out it seems. I think it may be another no-show like the Bravo D3. There are no news releases linking the Sigma EM8620L to the Kiss 600 on the Sigma website, and no reference to the Kiss 600 on the Kiss website either.

In any case upscaling DVD is not high on my priorities. I want a player that plays WMV-HD 720p content from my JVC GR-HD1 camcorder, so I can lose the stinkin' HTPC.

Originally posted by Tom Roper
I might have jumped the gun mikemav. The V880N is not on my radar because I'm looking for WMV-HD playback support. Here is a link comparing AVLP2 to V880N Momitsu (http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/AVLP2_Compare.php). It appears the chief differences are due to the Sigma EM8620L in the I-O Data versus the EM8550 in the Momitsu, allowing true HD playback in the I-O Data with DivX-HD or WMV-HD, versus an active DVI connection for the Momitsu. There's your choice for now.

I've followed the KiSS 600 for many weeks. It's always 2 weeks out it seems. I think it may be another no-show like the Bravo D3. There are no news releases linking the Sigma EM8620L to the Kiss 600 on the Sigma website, and no reference to the Kiss 600 on the Kiss website either.

In any case upscaling DVD is not high on my priorities. I want a player that plays WMV-HD 720p content from my JVC GR-HD1 camcorder, so I can lose the stinkin' HTPC.

Agreed Tom on the ditching the HTPC thing. I am in much the same boat. Regarding the DP-600, I thought the same thing, but I work for a pro-AV dealer, and one of our distributors was here last week and told me he met with the manufacturer the day before, and will have the 600 later this month. We'll see. If so, I will order and be the guinea pig and start my own thread.
-Mike

TUFU, do you speak German? ;)

Apparently a fair amount of WMV-HD content is being released for sale in Europe by a German company. You can check out their software selection here (http://www.high-def.de/index_2.html). Go to "Shop" at the top and then to "Software".
These newer discs apperently have DRM on the disc rather than the online DRM activation of the earlier WMV-HD discs, like T2, and should be playable in standalone WMV-HD players.

A few of the titles available:
Tomb Raider 1 & 2
Bulletproof Monk
Gangs of New York
Underworld
The Italian Job
and some others

The discs are about $50 US and the company will ship outside of Europe.

The real question is, does the Avel LinkPlayer2 actually support WMV-HD DRM right now. Since no one's tested any content it's hard to know for sure.

Is there any downside to using this? Do you have it running? I knew people had tried it on the 880N, but did not know about it on this DVD player. Will it play VIDEO_TS files from your network? Have you tried the Mac version of the server on the I-O?

Mike, I have it running on my B&W 400MHz G3 Mac. I have not yet seen any downside to it, that isn't in the AVEL Link Server (se my previous post about player hanging). The only odd thing is that when I push the URL button on the remote, when browsing web pages, I get the pop-up for Getting Player DivX VOD code, and no inputfield for URL. It will play all VIDEO_TS I have tried, but some are jerky, but they behave the same with AVEL Link Server.

Originally posted by mikemav
Agreed Tom on the ditching the HTPC thing. I am in much the same boat. Regarding the DP-600, I thought the same thing, but I work for a pro-AV dealer, and one of our distributors was here last week and told me he met with the manufacturer the day before, and will have the 600 later this month. We'll see. If so, I will order and be the guinea pig and start my own thread.
-Mike Hopefully, if and when Kiss release their Sigma EM8620L chip-set based player, they will learn from IO Data's experiences and everything will work!

You never know we might even be able to output 6Ch AAC audio streams: -

http://img61.exs.cx/img61/2108/Sigma_Dev_Kit_DVD8620LNET.gif


Cheers

Originally posted by Tom Roper
I might have jumped the gun mikemav. The V880N is not on my radar because I'm looking for WMV-HD playback support. Here is a link comparing AVLP2 to V880N Momitsu (http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/AVLP2_Compare.php). It appears the chief differences are due to the Sigma EM8620L in the I-O Data versus the EM8550 in the Momitsu, allowing true HD playback in the I-O Data with DivX-HD or WMV-HD, versus an active DVI connection for the Momitsu. There's your choice for now.

I've followed the KiSS 600 for many weeks. It's always 2 weeks out it seems. I think it may be another no-show like the Bravo D3. There are no news releases linking the Sigma EM8620L to the Kiss 600 on the Sigma website, and no reference to the Kiss 600 on the Kiss website either.

In any case upscaling DVD is not high on my priorities. I want a player that plays WMV-HD 720p content from my JVC GR-HD1 camcorder, so I can lose the stinkin' HTPC.


I just pulled the trigger on the Momitsu because, while I would like WM9 HD playback, I am more interested in upconverted DVDs via both analog and DVI (at the moment the IODATA offers neither). Maybe when the DVI version comes out I'll be sad, but I'll worry about that then. I've decided that life is too short to be perpetually waiting for the next thing, when there are tons of good things out right now!

Originally posted by dschamis
... I am more interested in upconverted DVDs via both analog and DVI (at the moment the IODATA offers neither)...

Am I the only one here who reads TUFU's posts? He has stated a few times that the IO Data player does upconvert via analog (component) output. We are waiting to see if they will upconvert via DVI by the time they release the DVI version here in the States.

Originally posted by Dolfo
Am I the only one here who reads TUFU's posts? He has stated a few times that the IO Data player does upconvert via analog (component) output. We are waiting to see if they will upconvert via DVI by the time they release the DVI version here in the States.


TOFU has said that, but it appears that the company has said otherwise, on a number of occasions. I'd rather wait to see how that shakes out before I become the guinnea pig.

Originally posted by Bjorn_E
Mike, I have it running on my B&W 400MHz G3 Mac. I have not yet seen any downside to it, that isn't in the AVEL Link Server (se my previous post about player hanging). The only odd thing is that when I push the URL button on the remote, when browsing web pages, I get the pop-up for Getting Player DivX VOD code, and no inputfield for URL. It will play all VIDEO_TS I have tried, but some are jerky, but they behave the same with AVEL Link Server.

Thanks Bjorn! Does it sync w/ iTunes (use iTunes playlists?.......how about your iTunes internet radio stations?) I know the Momitsu stock GUI has a sync w/ iTunes option, but it is only for PC iTunes.

Tom Roper- where did you order your's that it will be there tomorrow? I assume you mean in the US? I must have missed that the US spec one is shipping. Do you know if you will be able to return it if there are problems?

Originally posted by dschamis
TOFU has said that, but it appears that the company has said otherwise, on a number of occasions. I'd rather wait to see how that shakes out before I become the guinnea pig.

Well, the company told me that the player supports external subtitle files but according to reports it does not. I-O Data has even told another user that the player doesn't support subtitles. Until we get some hands-on reports from users over here it's hard to know exactly what we're going to get.

I'd love to pull the trigger on this thing so I can get my HTPC out of the living room but I'm going to wait to see what the US users report.

Originally posted by mikemav

Tom Roper- where did you order your's that it will be there tomorrow? I assume you mean in the US? I must have missed that the US spec one is shipping. Do you know if you will be able to return it if there are problems?

They are in stock and started shipping this week. You can order (http://shop.iodata.com/shopping/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA) one directly from I-O Data.