Originally posted by mallu2u
Just called the Service Center in Washington DC Area. Totally a different story here.
Really painful to deal with. However, they tell me that currently there is no firmware for this player. And firmware shall not resolve this issue. This seems to be a "picker" issue and we shall replace the part and that should resolve the issue. It shall take 2-3 weeks to repair the player.
Thing is that they are not very helpful and willing to talk. Just keep saying bring it in and we shall resolve the issue, without giving out what exactly will be done.
They have no clue abt the firmware. They said firmware was used to mofidy code on previous players but not this one.
What do u guys say? I have about 15 days left on my warranty. Not sure what to do. Don't even want them to open the player and play around with it, if they dont know what to do.

This particular shop is jerking your chain. Go find another one that's more helpful even if it's a bit further away. There are lots of repair shops that are manned by butchers. Remember that these are all individual businesses that have varying degrees of sophistication and quality of service. Like any other businesses that you choose to patronize, choose one that you like. Let the butchers go out of business.

Myself, I'm going to find a shop that will, first, have the firmware and two, can update the unit for me as I wait so that I won't have to leave it over night. It's should take only a few minutes for them to do this so it's easy money for them. They won't even have to open the case.

I live in the US (California) and just bought a 97S and it was manufactured in September 2004. Its firmware is 85E528. After waiting about 30 minutes on hold with Panasonic, I was able to get a case number, but there is information about the new firmware (85E536).

When I inquired if I could speak with someone who might know more about the firmware upgrade I was given another customer care phone number. The call wait is 37 minutes and I'm composing this email while waiting...

I suspect I will not be able to get this firmware upgrade anytime soon.

Dave

Paul & others. It seems that Panasonic does not answer it Emails. I have sent several with no response. At this stage I am getting very annoyed at Panasonic in the US. I guess that the only thing that might work is a threat of a class action suite. That threat may make them release the firmware...

All,

I don't think we're at "class action lawsuit" yet. Step back and take a deep breath. Panasonic is a big company and like many big companies, information dispersal can be frustratingly slow. Many times, getting specific information involves getting to the right people or person. I think we're at that time now. Typically, consumers do not have access to Panasonic (or any corporations) engineers and factory technicians -- they're busy fixing and testing things.

We have to give Panasonic a chance to update the players by their chosen method. As it stands now that means taking the player to an authorized service center. I would like to think that Panasonic would "grandfather" early adopters of the 'S97 for the update free of charge, still, I'm at day 90 for labor and in it goes. I will report how it all turns out.

Paul

Thanks Paul, you are probably right. I was just vetnting my frustrations being on hold for over 40 minutes and getting nowhere. The problem is that the authorized service centers have no knowedge of a firmware upgrade. I do think that you letter goes a long way in explaining the issues.

Thanks again,

Paul,

I'm sure you've checked this but I have not seen this discussed yet - The firmware is not able to be user loaded at home as is the case with the Bravo players? Assuming the firmware cannot be loaded by the user I wonder if this is because it is not possible or if Panasonic just does not WANT to let people do this as "people" might screw something up?

For all the reported quirks of the Bravo I have to give them a thumbs up for the ability to upgrade firmware at home. How great would it be to just download it from the internet, burn onto a DVD/CD/memory card whatever and install? I imagine we'll see more of this in the next few years.

As an aside I have 85E528 and have not seen any macroblocking so I don't know that I'll upgrade.

As another aside I also have sent emails to Panasonic (on an unrelated issue - audio popping) with no reply.

As a last aside - is there a full list available of what fixes are in the latest firmware? For example, I have an audio popping issue. Perhaps this is addressed in the latest firmware? How would one find out?

Great thread. Thanks.

I cant find this thing in stock anywhere, they must not be shipping any new units.

I have an idea Paul.

Use the letter you posted up above (reword) it and send that to Panasonic US.

Sango

Yikes. After dicking around with a couple Toshiba upconverting dvd players (592 and 5970) I spent some time on the forum last week and felt the s97s was a good way to go for an hdmi upconverting device. A week later, it seems the bottom dropped out on this unit. Are you guys recommending a no-buy on this machine now or just frustrated with the inability to get new firmware? I've got one located and can pick up tonight for $299.

aka which 55 inch sony lcd are u using? and what r ur video connections? thnx

I just received a call from my local service center on Long Island. The center was told by Panasonic USA that they were not aware of any firmware upgrade. I told them about the Canada upgrade to the new firmware number 85E536. I called Canada and spoke to someone in customer care to try to get the part number (not the same as firmware) to give it to my local Service Center. I was told to have someone from Panasonic USA call Canada because they could not give any part numbers out. I called my local service center again and they will call Panasonic again to try to get them to call Japan or Canada to get the new firmware. It is amazing how difficult it is to get a simple change done.

The person with whom I spoke to in Canada, Jessica in customer service said that they often get information from the US and was surprised that the people in the US knew nothing of the change. She was nice enough to read the memo on the 97S that she had. All it said was that a customer must bring the unit into a service center to have it upgraded to *5E536
firmware. No other information was listed.

AugustWest,

You're welcome!

As far as we know there is no downloadable firmware update. There are probably several reasons for this and all would make for sound business decisions:

1. User error
2. Protecting the firmware from hacks
3. Protecting the firmware intellectual property (reverse engineering)
4. If some of the firmware update is Genesis Microchip code (probably), Panasonic may have no right to distribute that code in disc or downloadable form to the public.

Macroblocking is a huge problem for some, a minor problem for others, a non-issue for others still. If there's no problem, don't bother with the update or at least, if possible, wait for some reports. I hardly have an issue with macroblocking but I am curious about the fix. I bought this player sight unseen so "d*mn the torpedoes, full speed ahead". I'll report what happens.

Responses from Panasonic USA have been few and mostly of the "form" response type. It's a shame but not necessarily unexpected.

I have not seen a list of what the firmware specifically fixes (anyone?). Maybe that information isn't available, but when my servicer responds and if the firmware is updated, I'll quiz him and see if that info is available.

Paul

By the way, the S97 is at the servicer. There is a 3-5 day lead time so I *may* know something more Friday, or more likely, this time next week.

Paul

I quizzed the service guy about the firmware with the small hope that I could weazle the disk out of him with no luck. He indicated they retrieve the upgrade file from a "special site" which they then burn onto a cd. This is then downloaded into the player by accessing the player service mode. He made it clear that he can not make this firmware or service mode available to the public due to potential injury from the disk self destruct mechanism.

He also noted that the firmware listing was not accompanied with any description of what it's intended to fix.

Panasonic keeps their cards pretty close to their chest.

zebramidge,

I think other than the "macroblock enhance" issue seen by many, this is a fabulous player, easily amongst the best ever. If the "macroblock enhance" is not seen on your display then, chances are, nothing less in a standard DVD player will probably ever do again (at least at this price point).

For many of the early adopters of the 'S97 this new firmware is eagerly awaited and discussed because (except for the macroblocking) this player is tantalizingly close to perfection at a non-second-mortgage price. While the firmware may not be a 100% solution it may get us a bit closer to that goal.

Later this year Panasonic will be introducing a DVD-S77 with upconverting HDMI which may be a DVD-S97 at a lower price or may have a reduced feature set, we just don't know. Yet.

Paul

Originally posted by rwestley
The person with whom I spoke to in Canada, Jessica in customer service said that they often get information from the US and was surprised that the people in the US knew nothing of the change. She was nice enough to read the memo on the 97S that she had. All it said was that a customer must bring the unit into a service center to have it upgraded to *5E536
firmware. No other information was listed. [/B]

I wonder if she could have faxed the memo to the service center so at least they have something in writing that they can show to Panasonic USA.

Hugh2,

You've been watching too much "Mission Impossible". ;)

Self destruct mechanism?

Paul

Hugh2:

The 3rd sentence and on, the tech has completely lied. The update process is no different than the one I've released because it is exactly the same.

Self destruct? My disc would of caused lots of problems by now, he he he!.

Sango

Sango,

Any more news? The USA is pretty quiet.

Paul

Paul and Sango,

I threw the "self destruct" in there for a bit of humor.

Paul:

No but I sent a complaint to Panasonic USA to call Panasonic Canada since they seem to be clueless!

I'm also in communication with Panasonic National Parts Center (which is only in US) as well and they are trying to reserach it. At least NPC is trying to find out. Plus I also gave them information to call Canada as well.

I just had a thought. Maybe you can call Panasonic Canada to try and get them to comunicate with Panasonic US about the firmware, might be useful.

Sango

Booo huge! =P

Would of been halarious if the tech said it literally! =)

We know, thus my "Mission Impossible" reference. If you're not familiar with this mid-60's early 70's USA TV show, each mission would start off with "Mr. Phelps" listening to a taped message of the forthcoming mission. The tape would then self destruct after playing.

Paul

My local service center will be asking Panasonic USA to call Canada. The person took all the information down including the new firmware numbers.

At least I got a call back. This is not over yet!!!!! I think it would help if
a few of us called Canada.

I just thought about the "Inspector Gadget" cartoon series just now lol!

Always in every episode, Gadget reads the note which the cheif gave him and he literally reads it out loud. However the last sentence always saids the node will self distruct so he then throw it into the trash can after reading but the cheif always happends to be in there(smoking) and him BLOWS up lol!!

With all this referring of different nationalities of Panasonic Service Centres to each other, I too have decided to join in the fun. I have contacted my local centre based in North London and have demanded this update.

Will let you know if / when I get any joy, but I am not holding my breathe.

Xav

Hello xavk,

Welcome to the forum! I hope your inquiry results in success.

Paul

Sounds good!! See if you can "demand' a disc while you're at it.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow


I'm on day 90 of the labor warranty.
You know Paul as per above, it appears that you and I both bought this unit on the SAME day.

And let me get this right, I believe we both purchased it from the same dealer in the NorthWest.

I think you're from Texas and it was delivered there and you didn't pay for extra-fast shipping.

I'm from California and also didn't pay for extra-fast shipping.

YOU RECEIVED YOUR PANNY - 2 DAYS EARLIER THAN I DID:(

This had better not happen when the HD version of Lawrence eventually is released to the common public.:)

Originally posted by xavk
With all this referring of different nationalities of Panasonic Service Centres to each other, I too have decided to join in the fun. I have contacted my local centre based in North London and have demanded this update.

Will let you know if / when I get any joy, but I am not holding my breathe.

Xav

What the hell, you might as well!
Chelsea has all but wrapped up the Premier League and my poor Arsenal is now fighting for second place with those cheaters from the North !:)

Originally posted by Penton-Man
I think you're from Texas and it was delivered there and you didn't pay for extra-fast shipping.


Or did I.........? ;)

I'm hoping that HDNet Movies will show a high resolution "Lawrence.." so it can be recorded via D-VHS!

A few people have had the firmware update for a few days. Any further reports or impressions? Is the update better than originally thought, the same, or are little issues starting to creep in as one becomes more familiar with the update?

Paul

I asked this a few pages back but no one answered so I'll try again:

Has anyone noticed a significantly darker picture from the S97 over DVI as opposed to component? Using DVE, on component, I need brightness +1; over DVI, +5. Normal? Not normal? Defective?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
I asked this a few pages back but no one answered so I'll try again:

Has anyone noticed a significantly darker picture from the S97 over DVI as opposed to component? Using DVE, on component, I need brightness +1; over DVI, +5. Normal? Not normal? Defective?

Thanks.

I have since sold my panny, but it seems like I remember having the turn the brightness up a bit over HDMI versus component. I do not remember for sure though.

I did not think of it as a problem.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Or did I.........? ;)


You sly fox you !!!:)

I've been testing the firmware upgrade the past 2 nights. I have the unit set to rgb standard connected via DVI to a lg mu-50pz44 plasma monitor. I didn't go through all the patterns but checked out the video scenes, pluge, reverse grey ramp, and grey scale SMPTE-133 patterns using DVE. I could not detect any change to brightness or contrast and left my settings as before at 0 for brightness and -2 for contrast. I tested at 720p and 1080i . I observed the same results at both resolutions though overall picture quality looked better at the monitor's native resolution using 720p, same as before .

The 90% box on the reverse grey ramp still looked a little pink but was reduced as had been indicated by the service technician at Panasonic. The pink problem has been more of an issue for me than macroblocking so I'm pleased there has been some improvement. How much? Enough to call it an slight upgrade but not enough to run out onto the street yelling eureka.

I checked for the macroblocking problem that has caused such anguish in this thread in DVE evalutation videos, Hellboy, Chronicles of Riddick, Collateral and an older chestnut Das Boat (Diretcor's Cut). I couldn't see any in DVE in the opening plane sequence where some had been barely visible before the upgrade. The only places I could detect it was in the opening cloud shot of Hellboy( none elswhere) and in the smokey French nightclub scene in Das Boat. Interestingly there was more in Das Boat than previously but it could be related more to the quality of tranfer of this older movie.

Overall I would characterize it as a modest improvement but not the holy grail. Certainly not worth getting all worked up about if you don't get this upgrade. The improvement is almost imperceptable and not worth launching missles or class lawsuits over (give me a break!) Indeed, I think the macroblocking issue has been way overblown in this thread but I never saw much in the earlier version anyway. This great player just got a little better and I'm hoping that the next release will be the big leap forward and get rid of that damn remaining pink.

Thanks jakeman for the update! It was indicated earlier in this firmware discussion that there might be another firmware update fairly soon so maybe that "pesky pink" can be be eradicated.

Paul

Originally posted by Penton-Man
You sly fox you !!!:)

There was no way I was going to let something like "time" get between me and my 'S97.

:)

Paul,
I'm sure you are aware that if the S97 engineers truly find a fix for the Macroblocking Bug this will be big news well outside the community of S97 owners. In particular it will give new hope to Denon 5900 owners who've been living with this the longest. So far it's not clear just how big a win this current firmware rev well be as regards this, but if the answer is that these guys really do seem to have found a way to significantly reduce or even eliminate the problem, bells should probably be rung in a new thread.
--Bob

Originally posted by jakeman


I checked for the macroblocking problem that has caused such anguish in this thread in DVE evalutation videos, Hellboy, Chronicles of Riddick, Collateral and an older chestnut Das Boat (Diretcor's Cut). I couldn't see any in DVE in the opening plane sequence where some had been barely visible before the upgrade. The only places I could detect it was in the opening cloud shot of Hellboy( none elswhere) and in the smokey French nightclub scene in Das Boat. Interestingly there was more in Das Boat than previously but it could be related more to the quality of tranfer of this older movie.

Overall I would characterize it as a modest improvement but not the holy grail.

If this firmware upgrade does almost entirely eliminate the macroblocking problem, then it's more than a modest improvement. I don't really see it that much, but for some it's bad enough that they have crossed the S97 off the and won't puchase it and some have sent it back.

Bob,

Absolutely! I'm well aware that the macroblock enhance extends well outside of the S97 world. I've thought about starting a new S97 firmware thread but just haven't seen enough data points to get a good grip on the results.

Maybe I'll start one anyway.

Paul

JSchulte, saying its "almost entirely eliminated the macroblocking problem" is a liitle strong. It's still there but lessened. Nevertheless, I would recommend this player to anyone while its still available especially considering the price point. I returned the zenith 318b to buy this unit and when I looked at the denon 2910 as an alternative couldn't rationalize the PQ with multiple price difference. Though it still has warts, among currently available players the s97 offers the best quality/price tradeoff.

Originally posted by Hugh2
Obviously the firmware upgrade is generally for the macroblocking issue but as I posted earlier I had the firmware installed even though I primarily run this player 480i into an Iscan.

That's fine. I plan on experimenting with running 480i into my Qualia 006 display - even though I'm currently running 1080i via HDMI into the Qualia which shows an outstanding pic.

I know that Paul posted some of your settings on page1 of this thread but is there anywhere on this thread where you have posted ALL of your settings or could you do so after playing a bit with the new firmware.

Originally posted by Penton-Man
I know that Paul posted some of your settings on page1 of this thread but is there anywhere on this thread where you have posted ALL of your settings or could you do so after playing a bit with the new firmware.

I don't think I've ever posted a list of settings, but here's a short list anyway.
I'm using 480i component output into an Iscan HD. Test patterns used are DVE and Iscans internal patterns.

Setup- Aspect: 16:9
Setup TV Type: Normal
Setup black level: Darkest

Picture Mode: User
Contrast- 0
Brightness 3 (Darkens BTB bar to what looks about correct level)
Sharpness -5
Color 0
Gamma 0
Depth Enh. 0
MPEG DNR 0
3D DNR 0

Iscan: Ajustments performed by adjusting levels to exactly match the DVE patterns to match Iscans internal patterns calibrated to the PJ.

Contrast 20
Brightness 5
Saturation -6
Sharpness off

My X1 PJ is calibrated to the reference brightness and contrast patterns of the Iscan and the default settings of 50 provides the best results.

Using DVE, on component, I need brightness +1; over DVI, +5. Normal? Not normal? Defective?

Using DVE and HDMI I needed a +1 brightness to see BTB. I can't speak about the DVI but would have thought it similar. I did not set this up via component as I plan to use HDMI only.

Thanks Hugh2....extremely sorry about the family tragedy...I was actually hoping for more of a "The night all the lights all went out in ...umh Toronto"...or wherever type story.

I hope everyone's moved on.

So Paul,
You're familiar with my set-up.
What do you think. 480i via component into Qualia 006 and let IT do the heavy lifting(all the way up to 1080p people!)

Or.....1080i via HDMI into the Qualia bird?- which is how I currently have it set up as.

Any guesses on what would give a more superb picture?
Keep in mind I saw actually no or perhaps extremely slight MB on any of the DVD's I've played so far to date.

Is there anybody else out there that actually has their Panny player NOW sitting in an authorized service center in the U.S. that is waiting for the new firmware upgrade....other than Paul and myself?

I was just thinking that perhaps a barrage of these going into service centers all at once would facilitate the firmware upgrade availability in the U.S. more quickly - if indeed there are any delays at this point.

Alot of you guys must be approaching that 90-day window.

Looks like us UK folk better start tunnelling now - it'll be quicker to dig thru to the US/Canada rather than wait for Panasonic UK to release the firmware here.

<whistling, casually empties some soil out of trousers ;)>

Don't dig!

Support Arsenal over Man U. on Feb.1 !!!

Thank goodness I did not purchase the Panny DVD S97 yet. Does anyone think by waiting another month or so Panasonic will ship the S97's with the new Firmware installed already?


Rob

Originally posted by rob316
Thank goodness I did not purchase the Panny DVD S97 yet. Does anyone think by waiting another month or so Panasonic will ship the S97's with the new Firmware installed already?


Rob
I guess the question is whether they are going to ship anymore since the S77 is supposed to come out soon.

Originally posted by Big Worms
I guess the question is whether they are going to ship anymore since the S77 is supposed to come out soon.

The CES announcement from Panasonic seemed to indicate the S97 would continue alongside the S77.

Speaking of which ... does anyone have any info on how the S77 differs fom the S97 (aside from the $50 price difference)?

Originally posted by CaseCom
The CES announcement from Panasonic seemed to indicate the S97 would continue alongside the S77.

Speaking of which ... does anyone have any info on how the S77 differs fom the S97 (aside from the $50 price difference)?
My bad, you are correct. Originally it was stated that the S77 was replacing the S97. Now it makes me wonder what will be the difference since it is only 50 bucks less.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=87509&modelNo=Content12302004011450614&surfModel=Content12302004011450614

Hey folks, I have a question.

I have a Toshiba MT500 and someone came with the Pan S97 yesterday. We connected both with a lowcost hdmi-dvi and tried it with some very good DVDs like "Caribean pirates" and "Welcome in the jungle".

We tried 750p, Video HDMI RGB enhanced.

Blacks were black, white were very good, but the whole image was not good. With "Matrix Revolution" the granularity was VERY present, no 3D effect, no depth in the image.
By the way the image was not very clean and sharp.
I tried all other options : gamma, sharpness, etc but it was worse.

Even the S97 YUV 576p was much better.

What did we miss ? :(
Please help, this player seems to be a BOMB, we can feel it, but the image was not pleasant to watch.
Perhaps does it need hours of tunning, maybe.

Thanks alot,
ptiJean

I was at the CES show and I spoke to at least four different people about the changes to the 77 v the 97. One of the reps brought out a spec sheet and told me the units were the same and the 97 will be dropped soon. There was no
97 on display only the 77. I wish I could have taken the top off but I did not bring a screwdriver and I did not wat to get arrested.

Maybe they made it seem like the S97 would continue along with the S77 so that people would still buy the S97 in the meantime so that when the S77 came out they wouldn't have a whole stockpile of the S97 leftover.

I did ask the question at CES if the S97 would continue and I could not get a direct answer. One of the reps I spoke to though that the S97 would be discontinued when the supply runs out since the S77 has the same specs.

By the way when S77 is coming out?

The S77 is slated to come out in April. There have been no announcements yet
from Panasonic

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Is there anybody else out there that actually has their Panny player NOW sitting in an authorized service center in the U.S. that is waiting for the new firmware upgrade....other than Paul and myself?

I was just thinking that perhaps a barrage of these going into service centers all at once would facilitate the firmware upgrade availability in the U.S. more quickly - if indeed there are any delays at this point.

The sercie center only cares that they get paid by Panasonic. They don't care if you hold the player or they hold it. I would have negotiated with them for me to take mine home.

Alot of you guys must be approaching that 90-day window.

Why did you let them keep it? I would have said at the service counter,"why don't you take down all my info and call me to bring the unit in when you get the new firmware." There's no reason for them to hold on to it. It's not like they need to open the thing.

jcc-
This actually is perfect timing.
I didn't let them keep it.

I let them hold onto it while they bugged Panasonic U.S.A. for the new firmware and at the same time got a work order started.

Just received a phone call from the manager of the service center saying that he has called Panasonic U.S.A. and they haven't heard anything about the new firmware and would like to know where I got my information from and the name of the person at Panasonic that gave me a case # regarding the MB issue.

I said "fine, I'm not surprised because Panasonic U.S.A. seems to be light years behind Panasonic Canada and I'll pick the player up today without the new firmware if that's o.k. and you guys call me when it becomes available."

He said he would be happy to do so and will continue to bug Panasonic U.S.A. on his end (apparently he is oh so happy to do so because he sees $$$$ for all those firmware upgrades)

So, I'm off to the shop, I'll report anything new. Like I said before, MB really wasn't an issue with my display so the lack of immediate resolution to the new firmware upgrade doesn't bother me much at all.

------------------------------------------------------
I'm a doctor jcc, not a financier !

Oh, I forgot,
One more thing - since I haven't seen MB with my display at this point can you guys tell me which DVD shows the WORST, absolutely sickening, puke your guts out MB -- hopefully at the beginning or end or right at a chapter stop - because the local authorized service center wants to see it for themselves.

Every little bit helps !

O.K. - now back from the shop with my player.

The manager claims he will continue to bother Panasonic about the new firmware upgrade that apparently is avaliable in Canada - meanwhile I'm in their system as a warranty problem and should receive it at N/C when, if ? ever it arrives.

Manager also claims he is one of the largest - if not THE largest authorized service center on the west coast as he is centrally located and services L.A. County, Orange County, San Bern., and Riverside counties.

He is quite peeved that Panasonic Canada is able to offer this service to their citizens. I told him to check out the price of prescription drugs up there compared to in the good ol' U.S.A.

Anyway, I told him that if I heard that ANY other U.S. authorized center was offering this new firmware upgrade that I would get back to him ASAP.

Get your DVD players into your local authorized service centers people - and have THEM bug Panasonic U.S.A. - if you care at all about this issue.

Originally posted by DavidHir
Do you really need to ingest your "Bush Bashing" and your obvious liberalism into a DVD thread? Keep your views to yourself and read the forum rules. Thank you.

I couldn't agree with you more!!

(of course, we all know there are quality control issues with Canadian prescription drugs --funny that didn't bother Pres. Bush when he announced that he was investigating Canada as a source of the flu vaccine when the U.S. apparently was in jeopardy of running out of the stuff - sorry for the off topic.)

Do you really need to ingest your "Bush Bashing" and your obvious liberalism into a DVD thread? Keep your views to yourself and read the forum rules. Thank you.

LOL,

You didn't know that our (Canada's) liberal healthcare system extends to electronic devices?

Panasonic Canada has no choice but to follow the laws if they wish to sell their products in Canada. If the DVD player is sick, they must make it well ASAP, or lose their license to sell in Canada!

:)

I wish the American health care system would cover electronic devices. A case can be made for anxiety caused by dealing with uninformed people at Panasonic
in the US.

Oh, it does and it calls "Extend Warranty", just like our health care, we have to pay for it.

Well these electronic gizmos are SO sensitive ---- perhaps the new firmware only works properly if you are that close to the north magnetic pole?
;)
--Bob

This is the head office in Calgary, AB, Canada:

Panasonic Calgary Factory Service Centre
6835-8th St. N.E.
Calgary, AB, Canada
T2E 7H7
Ph: 403-295-3955
Fax: 403-274-5493

I also think that Panasonic Canada via e-mail has been terrific!

I just purchased one of these to go with a new Plasma I'm getting with the HDMI connection. Meanwhile I'm using it on my 65" XBR RPT in 480P via component cables. I'm not happy, the picture can't touch my old Denon 2800. Will I see improvement with HDMI and 720P?

Brian

Originally posted by Penton-Man
jcc-
This actually is perfect timing.
I didn't let them keep it.

------------------------------------------------------
I'm a doctor jcc, not a financier !

Good job!


and YOUR quote should be "I'm a doctor Jim, not a financier !";)

Boy, those people from the red states...

I'm gonna jump into this thread with a new issue. Maybe the S97 is a solution. I have a question dealing with how various DVD players handle 16x9 mode for anamorphic 2.35 DVDs.
I recently bought a new plasma panel (Panny 42PWD7UY). Personally I hate watching anything with black bars, plus in the long run I can't imageine it can be good for a plasma (burn-in). Just my preference so I tend to want to fill the screen, even if it means cropping. I am now looking around for (initially) an inexpensive DVD player. I started with the Panny DVD-S27S. Decent features but picture was not the best. I have since tried three others, Sony DVP-NS775, Harmon Kardon DVD22 and Yamaha 5750. These three had nice pictures but they all did something I can't stand. When the Panny is set to 16x9 mode with a 2.35 DVD, it does so by doing a straight zoom (which means the ends get cropped). These last three appear to do it by stretching the picture vertically. This means I don't lose anything off the ends but the picture is distorted.
The plasma can compensate to some degree by stretching the image horizontally, but only about 3/4 of what is needed. I tried every combination of settings on the plasma and the players, including 4:3, various zooms, and 480I / 480P. Same result. My question is, is this the usual way that DVD players handle anamorphic content? I would rather go back to a lesser picture that is not distorted (S27S) than to get a beautiful but distorted picture.
I am considering looking at some other units (S97, Denon 1910, or a maybe a used Denon 1600 or 2200) but these are not available locally. I don't want to order them if they handle 2.35 the same way. Any input on this would be helpful. Any suggestions on DVD players that don't distort anamorphic content when expanded to fully fit a 16x9 screen? (I am feeding the plasma through component input). Seems to me if a cheap $70 player can do it right, then some higher end ones should be able to with having to resort to an Iscan unit to handle it.

Originally posted by DavidHir
Do you really need to ingest your "Bush Bashing" and your obvious liberalism into a DVD thread? Keep your views to yourself and read the forum rules. Thank you.
Nope....I don't NEED to.
Please see edited version as above.

Perhaps you would be better to describe it as a low-down scum sucking traitorous nature because I voted for him for his 1st term.:eek:

Originally posted by jcc
Good job!


and YOUR quote should be "I'm a doctor Jim, not a financier !";)

Boy, those people from the red states...

Who's Jim?
God, I can't help it if I'm from California.:)

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Who's Jim?
God, I can't help it if I'm from California.:) Apparently you don't watch Star Trek. That would be James Kirk and quoting Dr. Leonard (Bones) McCoy.

hey sillywiz

seems to me your up against a rock and some hard geometry. not sure what $70 player you have that will translate 2.35 to 1.85 without zooming or distorting at least at the edges. let me know and i'll order one today.

Notice - Penton-Man....This is a public notice to not post political comments on the site.

Zooming or stretching any image makes Baby Jesus cry.

SillyWizard,

Basically there are two kinds of DVD player zoom:

1. So-called "anamorphic zoom" which can take a non-enhanced wide screen DVD and zoom the image both horizontally and vertically so that the screen is "more filled" or filled completely. The zoom is linear so there is no stretching or squeezing of the image. Depending upon the zoom "step" some image cropping may occur at the sides as the screen begins to fill up.

2. So-called "non-anamorphic zoom" which only magnifies the image in whatever format the disc is originally in. Take a 4:3, disc for example, if the the image is 4:3 then the zoom will only work within the 4:3 frame and *not* expand to fill the sides of the screen. Some piture distortion may occur.

The Panasonic 'S97 has the "anamorphic zoom" which I think is what you're looking for. It does not vertically or horizontally distort the image. In fact, the zoom is almost completely variable and can even be set up to zoom automatically, if desired. Now for the bad news: the zoomed image quality doesn't look particularly good, IMHO -- picture artifacts are introduced.

The Momitsu V880 also has an "anamorphic zoom" as well but with excellent resulting zoomed picture quality (considering it's zoomed). The downside to the Momitsu is that the zoom "steps" are not a fine as the Panasonic's.

I'm concerned about picture quality with zoom so in this case, for me, the Momitsu's is superior. I just can't watch the 'S97's zoomed image for any period of time.

Paul

Paul,
At a guess, the S97 is zooming and then scaling instead of the other way around. That's the cheapest way to implement this, but of course you end up with artifacts that are more visible.
--Bob

Paul,

It appears I am looking for option (1). That is, a straight zoom that increases in direct proportion vertically and horizontally. The result being an image that fills the screen but gets cropped on the sides. This is what the $70 Panasonic S27S appears to do. It would seem to me that this would introduce the fewest distortions, since the ratio remains constant. Is this what the S97 does also? The other three players I mention appear to change the ratio, increasing the vertical to fill in the bars, but not increasing horizontally. The result being that I don't lose any image, but the whole thing gets distorted since aspect ratio changes. To me, this is less watchable than something with perhaps some artifacts but a correct ratio.

Note in your post that you say both the S97 and the Momitsu have the "anamorphic zoom", so I'm not sure which is which.
I realize a purist may want to view the image as originally filmed. As I said, this is just my preference. I would prefer the image fill my screen, even if I lose some on the edges. In any case, I am still seeing a whole lot more than I have been on my old 27" TV with VHS tapes.

Silly, I will inform the director where you live so he may come and throttle you.

SillyWizard,

Poor choice of words on my part. "On the other hand" was incorrectly used and confusing. I've reworded that part. What I meant to convey was that both machines have the "anamorphic zoom" and that the Momitsu's zoom results in better picture quality while the Panasonic has finer zoom steps. I would expect most, if not all, of the current Panasonic models to behave the same way, if equipped with zoom.

I found more errors as well. Just reread the entire post again!

The "filling the screen" is a hotly debated subject on other forums, thus the *good natured* (right, folks?) jabs. Don't worry about it.

Paul

Paul,

Got it. I agree with your assessment on panasonic models. I figure that any given manufacturer will probably use the same "approach" in most of their players. That's why I tried one from each manufacturer. Seems like the Panny so far is the only one to do it the way I like. Or maybe it's because the plasma is also a panny and they work better together?

In either case, I'll read up on the Momitsu. Do you know anything about how Denon handles their zoom? I may just have to try it out. My local tweeter store has the new 1910 / 2910 units in stock. These specifically say they have anamorphic scaling for 4:3/16:9 sets and zoom control. However, it does not specify what that means exactly. Also, what about their older units like the 1600 and 2200?

Hey Folks,

I have my brand new dvd-s97 connected to ae700 via both hdmi and component video. My question now is which scaler to use.

Should I keep my dvd player output 480p and let the AE700 do the scaling to 720p OR
keep my dvd player at 720p?

I have 30 feet hdmi and component cable between my dvd player and pj.

Thanks

Paul,

You were the one that started this thread and made my day. By that I mean I have been reading it for the three hours. No I did not read ALL 130 something pages. However, I did come close.

I am in the process of ordering an S97, with not much luck (price wise). Anyone with a "good" price seems to have it back order. Here are my questions.

1. Will a new unit (coming from a back order) have the new firmware update?

2. Does this unit work with any DVI switchers?

3. Is the S97S still a good deal for the price?

4. Should I wait for the S77 model mention in this thread?

I will be hooking it up to a Panny DLP @ 720P.

Also does anyone know where one can be found at a "good" price.

Thanks for any information you can give.

vonzoog

Good News.
It worked !!!

Just got a message on my machine…”We will be getting a software upgrade for your Panny DVD player on Mon. or Tues. –bring it in at your convenience.”

I’d rush it in but I’m considering emigrating to Canada.
Do they allow camping in Stanley park ?
I always liked that place.

P.S.
Sorry David – won’t happen again.

Penton-Man!

ALL RIGHT! Maybe that means my servicer will get the update as well. Just in case my servicer has problems would you post or PM me the name and phone number of your servicer so I could give it to mine?

I did not hear anything from my servicer today.

Paul

No problem Paul. I'm watching Lawrence AGAIN tonight by my lonesome so that I can really appreciate it on the 006!

Check your PM in about 3 min.

Thanks! I bet that 006 looks awesome!

Paul

I have the new firmware file and just burned it to disc. This came from a forum in Sweden (thanks Lars!). I viewed the file with my text editor, and it does say it is a firmware update for the DVD player. Now to try it......nail-biting....

This is Lars....I just updated my s97 with the firmware....my s97 is still working.....so the file is ok.

Is it allowed for you guys to point the rest of us poor souls in the right direction? If so, please provide a link, or at least a file name so that we can start googling for it.

If not, then pls disregard this request.

The link is in another thread named Panasonic DVD-S97 Firmware Thread (sorry I can't post links yet)...

Call it a stretch, but -

Even if the firmware is legit, does the fact that Panasonic will have no record of you flashing it via a repair shop or service center cause you to void your warranty?

I imagine any unauthorized change does that, however I would be tempted to give it a try myself.

Honestly, I wish Panasonic would just mail out the disc to people.

Hightly doublt that. They wouldn't list everything thou.

I remember when I brought my RP56 to the Panasonic Factory Service Center for repair. They updated it, however they did not document it other than the repair.
----------------
The firmware link is in the S97 firmware thread in this fourm.

Pretty exciting news! Now we'll se how the servicer does.

Paul

Hey guys..the firmware is legit...and it doesn't change your region settings to something crazy. The upgrade is brainless and I posted some early testing findings in the S97 firmware thread after I played around a bit post-upgrade.

The file with instructions zipped up is here. (http://home.comcast.net/~fway/Panasonic_DVD-S97_85E536_firmware_update.zip)

This update file is dated Dec. 17, 2004. So this update was produced/compiled about a month ago.

Hi just instaled firmware UG no problems version now reads
LO87 85E536 HAS NOT UPSET REGION FREE STATUS :-)

Will test player this evening


Paul in the UK

Paul it does depend on the mode or what the update do. I know the firmwares which I've released does make everything back to a stock unit. That's why it''s more of at your own risk.

Did you test RCE based discs as well?

Sango

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Pretty exciting news! Now we'll se how the servicer does.

Paul
Well I pride myself in not breaking da rules.:)
So I shall proceed in taking my Panny player into the Panasonic Authorized Service Center for the official firmware upgrade on Monday.

This may also be a good idea in order to achieve subsequent firmware upgrades in the future that may not be available online as I have officially turned my unit into Panasonic within the 90-day warranty period with the problem of macroblocking.

Just call me Straight-Arrow Penton.:D

Penton-Man,

It looks like I'm with you -- if even reluctantly, as the events unfolded. I guess we can look forward to the rumored second firmware update which is supposedly to follow fairly soon.

If this rumored future update totally eliminates the macroblocking it will be a happy day.

Paul

"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun"

Patience is always a virtue.
You and I are just Honest Joe's in the audiovisual world.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To answer and say nothing is making a political statement"- There ya go Paul. Who said that line(or something similar) in our beloved movie?
Lawrence of Arabia Trivial Pursuits!

Hey Penton -

Heaven just called. They want your halo back.

Lowell Thomas, er, Bentley!

"Akaba is over there. It's only a matter of going."

I find that line oddly appropriate at this time. Darn it! I want my player back!

:)

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow

"Akaba is over there. It's only a matter of going."
Paul
"L" Lawrence himself.

I've actually been.
The Gulf of Aquaba has some of the finest scuba diving in the world. It contains an extraordinary abundance of varied sea life - not to mention ALOT of sharks.
:eek:

Originally posted by CkRtech
Hey Penton -

Heaven just called. They want your halo back.
Ah, but I must confess I do have an ulterior motive.
I'm supposed to get the 536B upgrade.:D

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Ah, but I must confess I do have an ulterior motive.
I'm supposed to get the 536B upgrade.:D

:D

I picked up one of these players over the weekend. It has the old (528) firmware, but I didn't notice any macroblocking on my display (55WF655.) However, after demoing versus my Sony RDR-GX7, the PQ gains aren't worth the $400 CDN. Don't get me wrong, it *is* better than the Sony, but not to the point where you would really notice on my TV unless you're going back and forth between DVD players constantly, and even then, you really have to look for it. The colour is a little better, as it the detail in the picture, but it's not the kind of jaw dropping effect that I was hoping for.

Are there particular DVDs that I should be using to truly bring out the best in this player? I've been using the Balrog scene in LOTRs as my reference (and Gladiator a little bit). Maybe I'll just have to go back to finding a Denon 2900/3800.

Panasonic DVD-S77 DVD Video/Audio PLAYER
Plays DVD-Video, DVD-R, DVD-RAM, DVD-R, CD-R, CD-RW, JPEG, and MP3/WMA CDs
Progressive-scan video output for seamless, flicker-free picture on high-definition and HD-ready televisions
Cinema Mode diminishes glare and improves the visibility of details in dark scenes; Depth Enhancer reduces image background noise
Bass Plus enhances bass when you connect the player with an optional subwoofer
Dialogue Enhancer boosts center-channel volume during Dolby Digital 5.1-channel presentations

In the box: DVD player, remote control, user's manual, stereo analog audio interconnect/composite-video cable
Disc capacity: 1
Progressive scan
Playback formats: DVD-Video (NTSC), DVD audio, DVD-R, DVD-RAM, red book CD, CD-R, CD-RW, MP3-CD, WMA-CD, HD-CD
Aspect ratio control
HDMI for High Quality Picture (720p/1080i) farouja chip
Multi-angle viewing: (with applicable discs)
Black-level adjustment: standard
Frame advance
Still/freeze frame
Multilingual support: (English, Spanish, French)
Reverse-frame step
Advanced background brightness
Audio outputs: 1 stereo analog (left/right), 1 optical digital audio
Video outputs: 3 (composite-, component-, and S-video)
Surround-sound output: Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1-channel pass through

I wonder why they don't do SACD. Any ideas?

Panasonic will not support SACD (of competitor Sony). That's been made clear by Panasonic on a number of occasions.

Paul

Paul hurry, you gotta get your unit now! =)

Ah! I had no idea that SACD is a Sony thing - not that it matters too much for me. I have zero DVD-Audio or SACD media and don't even know what I'm missing :-)

I am calling today to find out the status.

Paul

Originally posted by rob316
In the box: DVD player, remote control, user's manual, stereo analog audio interconnect/composite-video cable


Aha! No HDMI cable!! So perhaps it's the lack of HDMI cable that results in the price decrease compared to the S97?

It would be nice to be able to compare the specs of the two players side by side.

For those, like me, who were thinking about the S97S but haven't bought one yet (pending resolution of the MB issues), it'll be interesting to see whether there's reason to wait further for the S77, or whether there's a compelling reason to buy a new-production S97 if they indeed become available.

I too was about to purchase the S97 but now I will be waiting for the S77 to come out. I would think Panasonic would have the firmware on the S77 to correct MB and other issues the S97 had.


Rob

Originally posted by caboman
Keep us posted if you hear anything and thanks for the replies, it does look like a GEFEN problem. I will keep the thread updated.
Caboman

Update: Trying to get GEFEN to swap my HDTV 4x1 switch for the new HDMI 4x1. Also, does anyone know how to disable HDCP on this player, this was a work aroung for a Samsung player?
thanks,
Caboman

The specs between the S97 and s77 are identical minus hdmi cable being included.


Rob

oh, worth $150 I bet!

The difference in MSRP is $50 -- the $399 MSRP for the 'S97 is bogus.

When the S77 manual can be downloaded that should "tell the tale" about operational differences.

Paul

Can anyone tell me how I can use DVD Audio on my S97? I dont seem to get the same result as I would on my RP82 meaning, music comes out from the two front speakers. Any ideas??

Thanks in advance...

although the language in the manual is a bit vague, i assumed that if your receiver can decode dolby prologic II the two channel signal output via the coax or optical connection will deliver 5ch dolby audio.

Originally posted by zebramidge
although the language in the manual is a bit vague, i assumed that if your receiver can decode dolby prologic II the two channel signal output via the coax or optical connection will deliver 5ch dolby audio.

No. Because of copy protection constraints, DVD-audio disks can deliver 6 channels only when using the 6 channel analog outputs or HDMI, not the coax or optical outs.

Originally posted by Manatus
No. Because of copy protection constraints, DVD-audio disks can deliver 6 channels only when using the 6 channel analog outputs or HDMI, not the coax or optical outs.

Actually, the primary reason is that the SPDIF (standard coaxial and optical digital audio) does not have the bandwidth to support mulitchannel DVD-Audio. It would be easy enough to add encryption across the interface (as is done with FireWire by Pioneer and some proprietary interfaces, such as Denon Link). Since DVD-A and SACD likely are not long for this world, probably doesn't matter much anyway.

Originally posted by PooperScooper
It's generally accepted that for 3:2 pulldown, i.e. film, the Silicon Image 503/504 is the deinterlacer of choice. For video, Faroudja does a better job. If you watch mainly film based DVDs, there's no reason for you to seek Faroudja deinterlacers. If you check out high end DVD players and most of the Denons "pre-upscaling", you'll see Silicon Image deinterlacers. Pioneer tends to use something else, Sony may also. And as Kris Deering said, the main reason Denon switched to the new Faroudja chip was because it was cheaper - the 23xx is a deinterlacer *and* scaler. The Sil503/504 chips are only deinterlacers. Another chip is needed for scaling in "upscaling" DVD players.

Sorry for the very late response, especially if someone else has covered it: The thing is that hardly anyone uses SI for deinterlacing, and relatively few use Faroudja, because these are expensive chips. Even for film-based sources, the Faroudja deinterlacers are among the very best. So it's not true that there's no reason to seek them.

Originally posted by sharkshark
Even on the secrets site they're vague about whether upconversion is strictly beneficial for fixed res (read: digital) displays vs. CRT RPTV. Does -anyone- have experience or a link to good a/b comparisons for us users of wacky cathode tech?

Regardless of the display technology, it boils down to the quality of the scaler in the player versus that in the TV. It's normally going to be better to have a digital video connection, but that's independent of the scaling question.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
First digit is luminance: Y.
Second digit R-Y. (Red)
Third digit B-Y. (Blue)

4:4:4 Color information is sampled at the same rate as luminance.
4:2:2 Color information is sampled at half the rate as the luminance.

4:4:4 would provide more color information, in theory, it should be better. 4:4:4 is great for HD.

Since DVD is coded 4:2:0, hard to see why this would matter.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Have you hooked up the 5.1ch connections (6) between the S97 and your receiver? Or, are you just using the 2ch output on the S97?


Yes, it is the same hook-up I had with the RP82. Nothing different.

Sorry if this was answered before:

Should I let my Panny Plasma upconvert to its native resolution or is using 720p setting on S97 better?

Thank you.

Originally posted by Sango
I well I think that the MPEG decoder has to be re-written. Most likely Denon re-written their's the firmware update. Panasonic might have an update but at this point in time it's unknown.

The Faroudja chip, which is alleged to the source of the macroblocking issue, is a deinterlacer/scaler, which follows the MPEG decoder (a completely separate chip). There may be an interactive element, especially considering that macroblocks are an element of MPEG encoding, but in any event, the MPEG decoders are hard-wired chips, not driven by firmware. A manufacturer could switch to a different MPEG decoder or post-process the decoder output, but it can't really alter the decoder's function.

Originally posted by kevinha
I wonder why they don't do SACD. Any ideas?

SACD was developed by Philips and Sony in direct competition to DVD-Audio, which is supported by the DVD Forum and most of its members. Panasonic is a particularly strong proponent of DVD-Audio. Basically, it all boils down to who gets the most money from what. You won't find any Sony or Philips players that support DVD-Audio, either.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
Has anyone noticed a significantly darker picture from the S97 over DVI as opposed to component? Using DVE, on component, I need brightness +1; over DVI, +5. Normal? Not normal? Defective?

I can't answer your question directly, but: Standard black for U.S. 480i is 7 IRE versus 0 IRE for 480p, 720p, 1080i, and Japanese 480i. Since the DVI output doesn't carry 480i, it will be set to put black at 0 IRE. If the component output is set to put black at 7 IRE, that could account for the difference.

Originally posted by svolman
Sorry if this was answered before:

Should I let my Panny Plasma upconvert to its native resolution or is using 720p setting on S97 better?

Thank you.

Try it each way and see. But unless the plasma has native 720p (1280 x 720) resolution, probably you're better off letting it take 480p from the player. That would result in just one scaling, rather than two (from 480p to 720p and then to whatever the plasma's native resolution is).

Anyone with a Panny HD 42in Plasma and S97 setup?



Originally posted by MDRiggs
Try it each way and see. But unless the plasma has native 720p (1280 x 720) resolution, probably you're better off letting it take 480p from the player. That would result in just one scaling, rather than two (from 480p to 720p and then to whatever the plasma's native resolution is).

MDRiggs,

Yup I see your idea there. I don't know all the process there but I mainly I know something in there needed to be changed.

So definately the Faroudja chip is reprogrammable then according to the Faroudja specs.

Sango

It's funny you should ask the 480p vs. 720p question today ...

I'm sitting here watchnig Alien vs. Predator in 480p on my Samsung HL-P5674W (which has a native resolution of 720p) and had the image paused when my wife went upstairs. I decided to flip the S97 through 720p and 1080i to see the picture difference and the macroblocking got significantly worse as I went up in output. Note this is on an S97 with the new firmware as well.

There's a big part of me that's tempted to watch stuff right now in 480p and let the the television scale it to 720p. I'm thinking that it's still only one scale operation ... the original content is 480i, let the player render it to 480p and then the display scale it to 720p. In my humble opinion, it begs the question of which has the better scaler? The S97 or the 5674? Judging from the display differences in 480p, 720p and 1080i out of the player, I'd say the 5674.

I'm going to recalibrate tonight at 480p and see how content looks (and, damn it, I returned Master & Commander yet again!)

Thoughts?

Maybe it's time to buy Master & Commander? ;)

Paul

LOL! There's a reason I pay Blockbuster $24/month ... we rent a lot of movies. Sad thing is, I've never seen Master & Commander beyond the opening scene. Is it any good as a movie?

LOL! I haven't seen it either but it is a type of movie that would appeal to me greatly -- historical epics (fact or fiction). I think, generally, it is supposed to be a very good movie.

Paul

ready to upgrade firmware so i set up my s97 to source my panasonic 50HD plasma via both hdmi and component/vga to see what worked best.

master and commander seemed an excellent reference test since there are many grey sky backgrounds, plus fog and cannon smoke. before upgrade, watched opening sequence and saw considerable pink blotching in most fog sequences and some battle scenes. there was more splotching in hdmi feed scaling up to 1081 than in 480p component feed then upscaled by plasma display. however, there is far greater detail to my eye in hdmi picture.

upgraded to 536 firmware. reset all settings as before (user setup with +1 brightness and the darker black setting seems to deliver best picture) and double checked callibration with DVE.

watched same scenes with same two setups. pink blotching reduced by a bunch in both but still a bit more noticeable in hdmi signal upscaled by s97 than with component signal upscaled by display. but for this plasma and to my eye, the now subtle pink splotches after upscaling to 1080i are a small tradeoff for a considerably more detailed picture, particularly in darker areas.

i'd probably enjoy this fantastic film even more if i wasn't looking for problems. i think with this upgrade i'm gonna give the tweaking a rest for a couple months.

Nice report! Thanks zebramidge. Please be aware that 540 firmware is starting to become available to servicers. Maybe just one more tweak? ;)

Paul

zebramidge

Does it look any different at 720p?

jake

thought it might, others have suggested it would, but it doesn't to my eye. go figure.

btw, the zoom is still maxicrap. even 5% turns picture to a runny stew. way more objectionable than macroblocking or pink artifacts. big scope films like m&c and lotr i just say the hell with burnin and watch them letterboxed. if i do zoom for comedies and such, i'll feed 480p from s97 and upscale and zoom on panny plasma.

That's the way to go. The S97's zoom is so destructive to the picture I won't / don't use it. Operationally-wise the S97's zoom is a neat feature --it's too bad that the resulting image (at any zoom level) turns out so poor.

IMHO

Paul

zebramidge

Yeah that's what I do as well. It is close between 1080i and 720p but if you look long enough 720p (if its native) is slightly better. Unusual that your feeding 480p.

jake
as per previous post, i'm lucky enough to have an open rgb input to the plasma. so i run both hdmi with 1080i and component/rgb with 480p from the s97. then i choose which to view depending on whether i'm going to zoom pic or not. i guess that's a little unusual or even goofy but that's what i'm going with right now. (or did you mean i should be feeding 480i?) sorry about the confusion.

zebramidge

I think your scaling twice with the player at 480p. dvd is 480i. What matters though is what pleases your eyes.

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/3720/dscf00507da.th.jpg (http://img144.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img144&image=dscf00507da.jpg)

Not related but I'm just showing *part* of my Panny colleciton lol!

Any recommendations on a good HDMI to DVI cable that works with the s97 (by works I mean no handshake issues and passes BTB properly)?

Have been using the supplied HDMI-HDMI cable with good results but I just got an 8300HD STB which has an HDMI out and my display has one HDMI in and one DVI in. Figure the s97 will do a better job of the conversion than the 8300.

But now I need to buy a cable. Saw a report earlier in this thread that someone was having issues with a Blue Jeans HDMI to DVI cable. Was actually leaning towards getting one of those, but apparently they don't make them - they use AV Link cables. Any other experiences? Want to spend $50 or less ideally for a 6' cable.

Am I blind or you camouflage your S97?

I use a Monster 400 DVI-HDMI cable when needed and while not inexpensive (and some people don't like the "M" word) it has performed flawlessly. The MSRP is about $120USD -- a lot more than $50USD.

Paul

Originally posted by lnguyen
Am I blind or you camouflage your S97?

Awww! You had to ask!! Well I decided to take the pic of my other part.
http://img128.exs.cx/img128/281/dscf00516ue.th.jpg (http://img128.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img128&image=dscf00516ue.jpg)

I upgrade to 536 and I have a Sony XDF-55XS-955 tv with S97 over HDMI. I popped in Starwars EP 2 and went to the 3rd or 4th track where there are having meeting in the red room. Man the red solid wall isnt perfect but its so much better. 536 really made a difference for my TV. Now I wonder what 540 has in store for us.

Paul,
Perhaps between 9:00-9:30 P.S.T., your people phoned my people and essentially were directed to the proper Panasonic people for PeopleSoft perfection.
Penton

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I use a Monster 400 DVI-HDMI cable when needed and while not inexpensive (and some people don't like the "M" word) it has performed flawlessly. The MSRP is about $120USD -- a lot more than $50USD.

Paul

That's probably more than I want to spend. Especially since I have an unused DVI to DVI cable (came with my Dell monitor). I could just get a converter but figure it's probably better to get a single cable.

Anyone have any success with Blue Jeans (made by AVLink), Better Cables, any others?

Originally posted by EricScott
That's probably more than I want to spend. Especially since I have an unused DVI to DVI cable (came with my Dell monitor). I could just get a converter but figure it's probably better to get a single cable.

Anyone have any success with Blue Jeans (made by AVLink), Better Cables, any others?

I bought mine at RAM. Don't remember the price, but it was much cheaper than the monster cabke. Good build quality, and RAM has excellent customer service.

Originally posted by littlesaint
I bought mine at RAM. Don't remember the price, but it was much cheaper than the monster cabke. Good build quality, and RAM has excellent customer service.

And the RAM cable passes BTB DVE tests, etc? They do have a pretty good price - comparable to Blue Jeans.

Originally posted by EricScott
And the RAM cable passes BTB DVE tests, etc? They do have a pretty good price - comparable to Blue Jeans.
Agreed, around $30.!

Just ordered one. Got the higher end 6' version - cost less than $50 including tax and shipping. Will let you know how it works.

Just ordered one. Got the higher end 6' version - cost less than $50 including tax and shipping. Will let you know how it works.
That's the cable that I bought. It is a excellent quality cable that has been problem free for me.

Good to hear. Although after fiddling with my new 8300HD, I may use the hybrid cable for that. The box has this stupid audio glitch where if you connect via HDMI-HDMI and your display can't accept 5.1 sound, all of the digital outputs (including optical and coax) are downconverted to 2Ch. So basically you can't get 5.1 if you are using HDMI-HDMI - really bad.

I myself did the upgrade to the 536 and MAN i checked out sky captain compared to when i watched it last week, and RIGHT away with all the greys it was really outstanding, not NEAR as distracting, i cannot wait for 540 it should make it nearly flawless... anyone else feel the same right now??

I'm looking forward to the updates: 536 and 540. Hopefully Panasonic and Genesic Microchip can keep up the good work.

Paul

I FULLY AGREE with Paul!!

The DVD player automatically detects that "a firmware upgrade is available" when you stick in a CD with the new firmware.....but what if you want to go backwards?

Hopefully the need won't arise - but it is possible that it might.

That's when one hopes the warranty is still valid.

Paul

CkRtech:

The way the firmware is designed is to only upgrade. The only way to make it go backwards is if is was modified to eliminate the version checks (overrule) which will make the unit go through the update process reguardless of what version you have.

I do have overrule versions of the R56, 82 and 91 on disc to downgrade to a lower version.

Sango

Paul, do you *like* my collection? =P

That's pretty much what I figured. Did you actually load it in a hex editor, find the version and "change it?"

The downgrades were made for me. I did use a hex editor to look at the version numbers but that was it. I didn't change it in case it ruined the acutal firmware.

The lower versions of the firmware is the real thing, which have been modified so I can downgrade intentionally as see the pre/post upgrade results.

This did come in handy for my RP56 because when I used the SVC Disc #2. The player's reported region jumped to R2 which caused a problem because I couldn't read RCE #1 discs. Once I gotten a hold of it, I downgraded back to a lower version (which fixed it back to R1), then updated back to the latest followed by the SVC Disc #2.

Sango

Originally posted by Sango
Paul, do you *like* my collection? =P

Pretty nice collection! I have such a hodgepodge of units. The XP50 is dedicated to the plasma but the others get rotated to the Panasonic LCD. Since the S97 is in the shop, I've been experimenting with a Dell W1900 monitor and going between the Momitsu and Oppo.

Paul

vanns has it ready to ship! guys

Originally posted by EricScott
Good to hear. Although after fiddling with my new 8300HD, I may use the hybrid cable for that. The box has this stupid audio glitch where if you connect via HDMI-HDMI and your display can't accept 5.1 sound, all of the digital outputs (including optical and coax) are downconverted to 2Ch. So basically you can't get 5.1 if you are using HDMI-HDMI - really bad.


I am going to hook up either the S97 or S77 (Which ever I buy) to my Panny XR70 receiver via HDMI. The run will look like this

Panny - DVD to Panny Xr70 to Panny 47x54 RPT.

My question is when I run the DVD player through the XR70 will the receiver decode 5.1 surround and then send the pic to my 47x54 TV.


Rob

Rob,

I believe so. That's one of the big selling points of HDMI: to have single cable solutions between devices. With your proposed setup, you should have the bonus of multichannel DVD-Audio decoded by the receiver.

Paul

Thanks Paul



Rob

Rob,
Yes that seems to be the way it is setup to work on this receiver. The manual for the receiver is available for viewing online at the Panasonic web site if you don't already have one. It looks like the HDMI input can be choosen as the input for both audio and video for either a DVD or a DVR. The diagrams in the manual imply that audio will *NOT* go out the HDMI output to your TV, however. So if you intended to use the speakers on your TV as well, you might want to double check that.

There are some fine print limitations for things like DVD-Audio (the receiver's speaker settings aren't active if you send it DVD-Audio signals), so read carefully.
--Bob

I do not plan on using the TV speakers when watching DVD movies. I have the Motorola 6412 DVR which has both Optical and Coaxial Digital audio Inputs. I will plug the Optical connection from the DVR to the XR70's optical connection. By doing this will the XR70 decode any Cable program (HDTV or Digital channel) that are broadcast in 5.1?


Rob

Bob Pariseau - I really enjoy your informative posts!!
Since, I haven't had my first cup of java yet this a.m. - could you please comment on this article in regards to rob316's proposed set-up. I'm confused.
http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html

yeah, bob. there seems to be a lot of confusion re: the s97's ability to deliver dolby sound to a receiver. please take a look the post and replies below and comment. thanks.


quote:Originally posted by zebramidge
although the language in the manual is a bit vague, i assumed that if your receiver can decode dolby prologic II the two channel signal output via the coax or optical connection will deliver 5ch dolby audio.



No. Because of copy protection constraints, DVD-audio disks can deliver 6 channels only when using the 6 channel analog outputs or HDMI, not the coax or optical outs.

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quote:Originally posted by Manatus
No. Because of copy protection constraints, DVD-audio disks can deliver 6 channels only when using the 6 channel analog outputs or HDMI, not the coax or optical outs.



Actually, the primary reason is that the SPDIF (standard coaxial and optical digital audio) does not have the bandwidth to support mulitchannel DVD-Audio. It would be easy enough to add encryption across the interface (as is done with FireWire by Pioneer and some proprietary interfaces, such as Denon Link). Since DVD-A and SACD likely are not long for this world, probably doesn't matter much anyway.

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Bob Pariseau - I really enjoy your informative posts!!
Since, I haven't had my first cup of java yet this a.m. - could you please comment on this article in regards to rob316's proposed set-up. I'm confused.
http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html



I have attached a screen shot of the Panny XR70 manaual concerning HDMI. It looks like by viewing the diagram that HDMI passes audio 5.1 to the speakers and the video to the TV.

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Bob Pariseau - I really enjoy your informative posts!!
Since, I haven't had my first cup of java yet this a.m. - could you please comment on this article in regards to rob316's proposed set-up. I'm confused.
http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html



I have attached a screen shot of the Panny XR70 manaual concerning HDMI. It looks like by viewing the diagram that HDMI passes audio 5.1 to the speakers and the video to the TV.

sorry guys try this file for HDMI diagram

Well if Bob's not around, Paul are you out there?
Since I think you were getting this receiver also.

Sorry guys problem with size of file. I have attached it to a Jpeg


Rob

Rob,
Yes, running optical or coax digital audio from your HDTV DVR to the receiver is the proper way to pass 5.1 digital audio to your receiver so that the receiver will decode it for you. You will need to make a setting on the DVR to let it know that it is OK for it to send 5.1 out those digital connections (i.e., that your receiver is capable of handling them) otherwise it will only send 2 channel digital audio. The 5.1 setting will work regardless of whether the program you are watching is HDTV 5.1 audio, HDTV 2-channel (stereo) audio, or SDTV stereo or mono audio.

The DVD player will likely have a 3-way option for this setting for it's optical or coax or HDMI digital audio outputs. It will have one setting for 2-channel only digital audio, another for receivers that can also handle Dolby 5.1, and a third for receivers that can also handle DTS. Most modern receivers can handle DTS and the DTS setting will work for discs that only offer Dolby 5.1 or stereo or mono audio.

---------------------------------------------------------

Penton-man,
I'm not sure what that guy is talking about in that article. I've yet to encounter an HDMI equipped source device that isn't capable of sending 5.1 digital audio out the HDMI cable for HDTV or for regular DVDs. I can't confirm for the S97 since I haven't played with one, but I see no reason to expect they'd have a limitation here.

Now there *ARE* TVs that have HDMI inputs but either will not accept audio over the HDMI input (because they have no internal digital audio decoder) or will only accept 2-channel digital audio over the HDMI input. Typically, HDMI equipped TVs that also have an internal HDTV tuner *WILL* accept 5.1 digital audio over HDMI since they already have the 5.1 decoder inside as part of the HDTV tuner.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Zebramidge,
You have to distinguish between the "standard" audio sources and the "exotic" audio sources. For HDTV, standard CDs, and video DVDs, the "standard" digital audio outputs -- optical or coax digital audio or the digital audio included in HDMI -- are just what you need. This would include stereo digital audio from your CDs as well as mono, stereo, Dolby multi-channel, and DTS multi-channel from your video DVDs. SDTV and HDTV (2 channel or multi-channel) work on these as well.

The "exotic" audio formats are different. For DVD-Audio and SACD you have two choices that are guaranteed to work -- multi-jack analog audio outputs or IEEE1394 (I-link or "firewire") digital audio. To use analog audio you need a pre-amp that has multi-channel analog audio inputs. To use I-link you need an I-link equipped receiver.

The traditional optical or coax digital audio outputs will *NOT EVER* work with DVD-Audio or SACD for full bandwidth multi-channel output due to technical limitations. Some players will provide for "down-mixed" and "down-converted" output on the optical and coax digital audio -- basically reducing the signal to 2-channels at normal CD quality. But they can't do that for copy protected content which makes this essentially useless.

For the "exotic" audio formats, HDMI version 1.0 works just like the standard optical and coax digital outputs -- i.e., not at all well. However, there's a new HDMI 1.1 spec that's just starting to appear on some devices which DOES enable full bandwidth multi-channel digital output for DVD-Audio, and there's a rumor of an upcoming version 1.2 that will also do this for SACD. Note that for HDMI there's no technical limitation for these formats. It's just the difficulty of getting licensing approval from the folks who control these formats. To use the extra licensed features of HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 you need version 1.1 or 1.2 on both ends of the cable.
--Bob

Hello Penton-Man, Rob,

I don't have the receiver yet, but I beleive the Panasonic diagram is correct.

When the S97 is connected to the SA-XR70 I don't think that two channel digital audio is fed to the TV/display via the HDMI.

I don't think the signal "passes through" the SA-XR70, either. The SA-XR70 must be turned on.

Paul

Originally posted by Bob Pariseau

Penton-man,
I'm not sure what that guy is talking about in that article. I've yet to encounter an HDMI equipped source device that isn't capable of sending 5.1 digital audio out the HDMI cable for HDTV or for regular DVDs. I can't confirm for the S97 since I haven't played with one, but I see no reason to expect they'd have a limitation here.

Now there *ARE* TVs that have HDMI inputs but either will not accept audio over the HDMI input (because they have no internal digital audio decoder) or will only accept 2-channel digital audio over the HDMI input. Typically, HDMI equipped TVs that also have an internal HDTV tuner *WILL* accept 5.1 digital audio over HDMI since they already have the 5.1 decoder inside as part of the HDTV tuner.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob-
I had a difficult time believing what was stated in the article myself which is why I asked for your input. Thanks.:)

If I had another HDMI cable, I could give you a "live report."

I am running the S97 with the XR70 (which successfully blew the roof off my home when I had the lightning strike the clock tower in BTTF @ -10 dB). <with very little distortion I might add> :D

However I only have one HDMI cable. I am running that straight to the TV with two channel audio turned on and running coax to the receiver. I have no fancy DVD-Audio stuff - so this setup works great. If I need another digital input...I should be able to go to the all HDMI route for the DVD player. (It doesn't matter to me if the TV gets the audio stream or not....but I would certainly let you know)

I am sure Paul will answer all questions when his arrives.

Originally posted by zoro
vanns has it ready to ship! guys

Out of stock again...already! Has anyone confirmed what firmware version they're shipping with now? More & more I'm thinking I'm better off waiting for the S77.

I have the S97 and XR70 and the S97 does output video and audio individually or together over HDMI. BTW DVD Audio is awsome over HDMI. Only 1 cable! The XR70 will output only video over HDMI.

The tv I'm looking at the Panny 65" Onyx has 480P and 1080 I imput via the HDMI and 720P is only available on the PC imput. Would this player be a good choice for this tv since it can't receive the 720P singnal?

Thanks

Brian

Has anybody noticed any 'halos'. I noticed some 'haloing' when using the picture/contrast settings in THX optimizer over HDMI (no CV cables to compare). Player contrast & sharpness is set to '0'. DLP picture & brightness set to '37'. Any recommendations?

Will changing the supplied HDMI cable reduce/remove halo effect on screen?

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
LOL! I haven't seen it either but it is a type of movie that would appeal to me greatly -- historical epics (fact or fiction). I think, generally, it is supposed to be a very good movie.

Paul
In the year of 1314, Scotland won its freedom….with the help of William Wallace…a.k.a. BraveHeart.:)

Can anyone attest to this players capability to play back DVD-r or DVD+r media? I am very interested in this unit if it will play either or both.

Thanks!

texasengineer:

Yes it has already been tested and it's been mentioned on this forum on page 1.

--------
Paul:

You gotta your first page. The info for the BC Factory Service Center is inconsistant than the one at the Firmware thread(which is listec correctly).

Also tohoho's name is spelled wrong too! (lol)

Sango

Thanks Sango!

I'll take a look.

I hope my player is updated today.

Paul

Can anyone attest to this players capability to play back DVD-r or DVD+r media? I am very interested in this unit if it will play either or both.

It smoothly plays my DVD copies burned with Popcorn on a Verbatim DVD-R. It did not read DVD-R disks burned in Mac OSX, I needed Popcorn to take care of DVD burning.

I have no experience with WIndows and I have not tried DVD+R.

Mark

As it says on the first page of this thread (the FAQ), the S97 successfully plays DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW, and DVD+R DL (I have used several of these). Your success with DVD+R DL will depend on how good your media is and how good your burner is. Verbatim is the best out there for +R DL. I have played tons and tons of +R single layer discs with no problems at all.

DID the 540 firmware come out yet? Did anyone test?

From what Tohoho mentioned, it's the 85D540 which came out.
The one we need is the 85E540 which is for our units. Most likely there is one, just haven't seen it yet.

no news for the region free sequence ?

Not that I know of. Got to use a remote hack.

sango, have you used the remote hack yourself?
Can anyone verify that it works on US S97s?
With the new firmware out, I'd consider getting the region hack, but I've never heard of it before. Does anyone know whether or not one should upgrade the firmware first, before applying the hack, or does it not matter when one hacks the region? In other words, does upgrading the firmware nullify the region hack? I ask because of the news of a possible 540 firmware upgrade, and I'm wondering I should wait until I've made all the known firmware upgrades before using the remote region hack.

No I haven't, so I wouldn't tell say first off hand.

Not sure if this question has been answered...trying to catch up to all these pages...

I used a Verbatim DVD+R DL disk (very expensive $15/disk; was praying that nothing went wrong during the burn) and the movie looked great. Layer transition was no problem at all. I burnt this disk using DVD Decrytper (sp?). Disk say they support 4x write. I set to 4x write but DVD Decrypter swithced to 2.5x burn which took a long time. Van Helsing looked good on my 507UY plasma and S97 combo over 480p component at the moment.

Originally posted by rransi
Has anybody tried playing a burned dual-layer DVD+R disk (DVD+R DL) in Panasonic DVD-S97? Does it play?

I have to replace my old Panasonic DVD-CV51 unit and I am asking because CV51 can play single-layer DVD+R, but not Dual Layer DVD+R.

Thanks!!

Edit: Editing done to correct grammer.

It seems that the reason why there are no 97S players available is that it is now discontinued. The Amazon web site claims this. The only ones left are at Fry's above list price. Hoping that the 77S will be out very soon with new firmware.

Yes, I saw it at Fry's, since you guys would know best, is it worth the price they are asking, or should one wait for the next upcoming model?

TIA

I would wait.

Originally posted by gtbdevs
Yes, I saw it at Fry's, since you guys would know best, is it worth the price they are asking, or should one wait for the next upcoming model?

TIA
jr.com shows them out of stock also, but you could give them a call. They will be able to tell you if there are more on order. That's what I did when I ordered mine. The even told me approximately how many were coming in.

So daniel, how many and when for J&R?

Originally posted by chairmantao
sango, have you used the remote hack yourself?
Can anyone verify that it works on US S97s?
With the new firmware out, I'd consider getting the region hack, but I've never heard of it before. Does anyone know whether or not one should upgrade the firmware first, before applying the hack, or does it not matter when one hacks the region? In other words, does upgrading the firmware nullify the region hack? I ask because of the news of a possible 540 firmware upgrade, and I'm wondering I should wait until I've made all the known firmware upgrades before using the remote region hack.

In case the UK chipped remote hack is meant I used it on my RC2 S97 player with no problems. I updated the firmware later to 536 and the hack is still working, at least on RC1 dvds.

Rainer

Originally posted by AkaStp
IIRC, Amazon have never had it available. It was shown as unavailable before it was released, when it was released, and after it was released. Ditto for the XR70 receiver.

Wrong... they've had it available through other retailers at least twice that I know of. Just had to be quick to get it is all. Last week when I got mine they had it listed from Vanns. Kinda sucked though, they charged shipping through their site and if you ordered it directly from Vanns, S&H was free.

Does any one know of a more detailed and technical description of the s97 (audio) upsampling capabilities? The manual is horrible regarding this! Example questions:

What does each of the multi re-master modes do in terms of sampling frequency and bit depth?

What is the mysterious "Level"??!

Can someone explain what the difference between Auto1 and Auto2 transfer mode is? The manual says Auto 1 automatically recognizes 24fps and does the proper conversion but it looks like Auto 2 does 24fps and 30fps. Does this mean that Auto 2 is more comprehensive? Am I losing anything by going w/ Auto 1?

Originally posted by zoro
So daniel, how many and when for J&R?
I'm not sure. I purchased mine in December. JR has been continuously getting in shipments and then selling out though.

Originally posted by gtbdevs
Yes, I saw it at Fry's, since you guys would know best, is it worth the price they are asking, or should one wait for the next upcoming model?

TIA

Fry will price match.

[edited to remove non MSRP price.]

Thanks,

I did call them, was told that they don't match prices.

Still don't understand why they charge so much more.

Auto2 is the best way to go with this player for all film sources.

Originally posted by EricScott
Can someone explain what the difference between Auto1 and Auto2 transfer mode is? The manual says Auto 1 automatically recognizes 24fps and does the proper conversion but it looks like Auto 2 does 24fps and 30fps. Does this mean that Auto 2 is more comprehensive? Am I losing anything by going w/ Auto 1?

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Auto2 is the best way to go with this player for all film sources.

What about Video sources? Do I need to switch to Auto1 or Video? Not that I have many DVDs from video sources.

Auto2 all the way. It will detect video mode when necessary and hop in an out of it as required.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Auto2 all the way. It will detect video mode when necessary and hop in an out of it as required.

Great. Thanks for your help.

I thought Auto 1 is the tradition just like the RP and XP series players! =)

OneCall has it in stock as of 02/07/05 4:15PM Eastern.

Does anyone have any more info on the S77?

Does anyone know if the S77 has the same electronics as the S97 only with DVD A added?

Here is what I have managed to find so far

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryList?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=23261&startIndex=6

Click on the Panasonic Introduces New Multi-Format DVD Players For 2005 link.

Regards,
Doug

S97 does DVD-A

Sango,

The FL2310 is a little different than the 2300 in past panny/denon players. FL2310-based players do not have the 2:2 Video Flags issue when running in Auto2 mode. The S97 does not have the 3:2 Video Flags issue in Auto2 mode either.

Originally posted by Sango
I thought Auto 1 is the tradition just like the RP and XP series players! =)

I think you ment to say different than the 2200, not 2300!. Caught me out by surprize when I first read it.

Paul and Penton-Man: Did you guys get info as to when ur getting your players? I have to make the decision of doing the firmware myself or sending the player to an authorized center. Am still catching up on all threads right now..after a week's vacation. Do US center have the latest firmwares?

mallu2u,

No news from me yet. My servicer hasn't called me and tomorrow will be two weeks. I've been calling the servicer and they're waiting for "email" from Panasonic with an attachment of firmware.

So it goes.....

Paul

Anyone looking to buy one of these Onecall.com has them in stock. I'm going to wait till the summer when I actually have my hidef tv before I buy but they got them in stock yesterday.

Stepping away from the "firmware and where to buy issues" for a moment, :) I noticed something different yesterday with my S97 and my Panny 50LC14. I was watching a DVD that is a 1.33:1 aspect ratio and had the S97 set to upconvert to 720p which is native for the 50LC14. The LC14 would not allow me to view it in normal mode, it locked onto full which stretched the view. When viewing photos of scantily-clad ladies this is a no no. :D I switched the S97 to 480p and the normal mode became available so I guess upconverting to 720p or 1080i causes the LC14 to see the signal as a high-def signal. Just a little tidbit I thought I'd pass along.

Hello Bookworm,

Yes, that is a common issue for upconverting players. Many displays do not allow for the changing of screen size when using 720p/1080i. However, there is what is called a "pillarbox" mode on the S97 that will resize a 4:3 picture to display in 4:3 on a 16:9 screen. Here's the configuration items to change (from the first post of the thread):

Display->Other Settings->Display Menu-> 4:3 Aspect Ratio: Auto
Display->Other Settings->Display Menu-> Just Fit Zoom: 16:9 Standard

Paul

I have the S97 connected to a Panny 50PHD7UY via 480p component. Until yesterday I have to say the macroblocking issue hasn't been all too distracting. That is until I watched Brother Bear with my daughter for the first time last night. This is the Special Edition 2004 2 Disk release of Brother Bear, which for me from now on shall be labeled The Macroblocking Bears. It was next to impossible for me to view this movie without wondering what the heck is going on with the brown texture coloring of these bears bodies. And the weirdest part is that it only involved the bears bodies as far as I could tell. I mean the most important part of the picture, the bears, were covered in macroblocking bands and blotches at least 50% of the time. If this is not macroblocking I don't know what is. Note the best chapter for seeing this issue was #19 were the two brother bears meet up with all the other bears to eat fish by the river. The rest of the picture was perfect as far as I could tell. Also note that this DVD was delivering an average of about 6.3 Mbits/sec, which I think is approaching Superbit territory. I was surprised to see it that high.

Has anyone else tested/experienced macroblocking with this SE release? For me this has become my reference macroblocking DVD...lol.

wolfman

I managed to snap a picture of one particular scene that displayed macroblocking (in chapter 19). Once I get the firmware update I hope to be able to make a good comparison.

Thanks for the update Paul. Im ready to flash the new firmware now.

Paul & Penton-Man you have patience of saints. I would think that you should at least get an answer from Panasonic USA. I wonder what they
are waiting for. Hope you are lucky and get a newer version of the firmware.

Originally posted by rwestley
Paul & Penton-Man you have patience of saints. I would think that you should at least get an answer from Panasonic USA. I wonder what they
are waiting for. Hope you are lucky and get a newer version of the firmware.
"I would think that you should at least get an answer from Panasonic USA."
hehe, the "answer" I initially got from Panasonic was an interrogation as to how I found out about this firmware.(I felt like that woman they thought was the traitor last night on "24")

"Hope you are lucky and get a newer version of the firmware."
Well, if I don't get 540, I'm at least hoping for 536 XXX !

After reading secrect dvd player shootout on S97 -

Auto 2 can't handle "incorrect progreesive flag" correctly. How can this happen to the Faroudja chip?
I know Sigma design can't handle this at all (it happens alot with some DVD disc on my momitsu, and it's only complain I have with V880), but Faroudja chip should be able to handle this easiely.

Any suggestion?

Baja

Run in Auto1 mode or wait for teh next firmware release (they know about it). DVD's that have this problem are really rare. What list of movies do you have with this problem?

Vanns has them back in stock at a great price with no tax and free shipping...

I think that this is a defective Disney title. I rented the movie last year, man it was unwatchable. I got the same effect on my 318 (component), as well as my RP91 I had at the time. This is a know problem title. People are calling it banding, not MB.


Originally posted by wolfmanjack210
I have the S97 connected to a Panny 50PHD7UY via 480p component. Until yesterday I have to say the macroblocking issue hasn't been all too distracting. That is until I watched Brother Bear with my daughter for the first time last night. This is the Special Edition 2004 2 Disk release of Brother Bear, which for me from now on shall be labeled The Macroblocking Bears. It was next to impossible for me to view this movie without wondering what the heck is going on with the brown texture coloring of these bears bodies. And the weirdest part is that it only involved the bears bodies as far as I could tell. I mean the most important part of the picture, the bears, were covered in macroblocking bands and blotches at least 50% of the time. If this is not macroblocking I don't know what is. Note the best chapter for seeing this issue was #19 were the two brother bears meet up with all the other bears to eat fish by the river. The rest of the picture was perfect as far as I could tell. Also note that this DVD was delivering an average of about 6.3 Mbits/sec, which I think is approaching Superbit territory. I was surprised to see it that high.

Has anyone else tested/experienced macroblocking with this SE release? For me this has become my reference macroblocking DVD...lol.

wolfman

Twenty-five years ago I took advantage of a price break and purchased my first-ever VHS VCR for $999. I scoured the marketplace and found a pack of 5 blank tapes selling for $49.95. Two or three years later I purchased my first pre-recorded movie -- Raiders of the Lost Ark, on sale for $42 or thereabouts (all in 1980 dollars!)

Today, we are complaining about coding errors in DVD transfers of movies we can buy for $14.99 or less, and we are complaining about design flaws in video processing integrated circuits (the complexity of which couldn't have been dreamed of 25 years ago) that make our $300 DVD players yield slightly-less-than-perfect images on our digital wide-screen high-definition TVs.

Perhaps soon there'll be a "re-spin" of the Faroudja IC's that will correct the problem -- if we're lucky, with the same pinouts and other specs, enabling manufacturers to incorporate the new versions into their designs easily. Meanwhile, those of us who want perfection can buy more expensive -- or even pro -- gear without these flaws.

Me? I'm still amazed at what we can get for our money today!

Originally posted by rwestley
Paul & Penton-Man you have patience of saints. I would think that you should at least get an answer from Panasonic USA. I wonder what they
are waiting for. Hope you are lucky and get a newer version of the firmware.

After calling the servicer again and they hadn't received any update, I escalated with Panasonic again yesterday. Panasonic promised me a callback within 24 hours so that would put it around 12PM CST today. I also updated the case # with particulars such as the servicer, phone #, address, e-mail addr and a description of what is needed. If no callback, today, I'm retrieving the player.

Paul

Okay, I've got to ask. If you have HD 50" plasma (and I do too, 6UY), why are you watching upscaling player at 480p via component?

S97 at 1080i to Panny 50" PDP via HDMI/DVI is quite spectacular. With new firmware update, over 90% of MB is gone (not that it had much to notice to begin with mind you). The pink cast over gray scene is improved greatly.

I have a optional DVI blade for my 6UY and your 7UY has HDMI blade option so if you didn't get the blade, I highly recommend that you do (~$150 or so and installs in seconds - just push the card up into the slot).




Originally posted by wolfmanjack210
I have the S97 connected to a Panny 50PHD7UY via 480p component. Until yesterday I have to say the macroblocking issue hasn't been all too distracting. That is until I watched Brother Bear with my daughter for the first time last night. This is the Special Edition 2004 2 Disk release of Brother Bear, which for me from now on shall be labeled The Macroblocking Bears. It was next to impossible for me to view this movie without wondering what the heck is going on with the brown texture coloring of these bears bodies. And the weirdest part is that it only involved the bears bodies as far as I could tell. I mean the most important part of the picture, the bears, were covered in macroblocking bands and blotches at least 50% of the time. If this is not macroblocking I don't know what is. Note the best chapter for seeing this issue was #19 were the two brother bears meet up with all the other bears to eat fish by the river. The rest of the picture was perfect as far as I could tell. Also note that this DVD was delivering an average of about 6.3 Mbits/sec, which I think is approaching Superbit territory. I was surprised to see it that high.

Has anyone else tested/experienced macroblocking with this SE release? For me this has become my reference macroblocking DVD...lol.

wolfman

couldn't agree more with mgkg3. i have s97 doing 1080i to HD507UY via hdmi and it is very impressive after firmware upgrade. only reason i ever go 480p to display is to take advantage of its superior zoom function for movies that are not 1.85 and i want to avoid possible burnin. even at 480p the pic is very very good. mb bears sound like the result of a crappy transfer, poor calibration or both.

Re: Macroblocking Bears

Okay, I've got to ask. If you have HD 50" plasma (and I do too, 6UY), why are you watching upscaling player at 480p via component?

S97 at 1080i to Panny 50" PDP via HDMI/DVI is quite spectacular. With new firmware update, over 90% of MB is gone (not that it had much to notice to begin with mind you). The pink cast over gray scene is improved greatly.

I have a optional DVI blade for my 6UY and your 7UY has HDMI blade option so if you didn't get the blade, I highly recommend that you do (~$150 or so and installs in seconds - just push the card up into the slot).

I just noticed that Van's has the 97s back in stock for those who can't wait for the 77S to come out.

Originally posted by Kenlex
Meanwhile, those of us who want perfection can buy more expensive -- or even pro -- gear without these flaws.

Not me!
Can you imagine how unhappy we would all be here if we had the perfect display, the perfect DVD player, etc.?

The fun for me at least is to strive for perfection. That’s why Paul’s Panny thread is so entertaining to me.

Hell, if we weren’t taking about MB, we would be figuring out how to personalize the greeting on the front panel of this DVD player for when we have guests over to show some special DVD……or other such thing.

I agree with your perspective, we’ve come along way baby!
(Do you think it’s safe for me to finally trash all my Betamax tapes?)
:)