Originally posted by mallu2u
is there a way to switch off the subtitles by deafult? Whenver I load up a movie, it starts subtitles as well. Not sure where to switch off that setting.

Check page 14 of the user's manual.

Hi all,

Since my TV (Toshiba 57H84) can also do the upconversion job. Do I still need upconversion DVD player (like Panasonic S97) to get the better PQ?

Thanks.

As Akastp mentioned, I am not talking abt setting the language for subtitles but permanently switching them off. Is there a way?

I have a new S97 (firmware 540) feeding my Sanyo Z3 projector via HDMI. This is a nice player and I am generally happy with it. But I have some picture quality concerns.

I have calibrated using DVE and have been making some picture quality comparisons. When compared to my Panasonic RP-62 DVD player connected via component, the S97 via HDMI looks much cleaner with less video noise. When compared to a High Definition feed from my SA8000HD cable box via component, the S97 looks far inferior with lots of video noise and less detail. (I was able to make a direct comparison last Sunday night when Minority report was shown in HD and I own a copy of the DVD)

Now all this sounds about right, but when I compare the PQ from the S-video output of the S97 to that of my HD feed, the S -video looks almost as good. And when I compare the S-video feed of the S-97 to the HDMI feed from the S97, the S-video looks smoother with far less video noise. I also did not see any loss of detail in the S-video.

Can anyone explain why my HDMI output looks noisier than the S-video?

Tom

Now all this sounds about right, but when I compare the PQ from the S-video output of the S97 to that of my HD feed, the S -video looks almost as good. And when I compare the S-video feed of the S-97 to the HDMI feed from the S97, the S-video looks smoother with far less video noise. I also did not see any loss of detail in the S-video.

A few things come to mind. First, make sure that your S-video input and HDMI inputs on your TV are set up the same in terms of video settings. that is, could you contrast be set all the way up on the HDMI input and causing artifacts, for example. that are not present on your (assumedly properly set up) S video input.

You could also have a defective player or TV. I have one or the other as my HDMI input has real bad audio problems even though I just had a repair done to the TV and the DVD player worked fine on other TVs in the store.

I have heard, but do not know first hand, that HDMI cables are limited in length before digital snow occurs. How long is your cable?

The last thing I can think of would be a function of where you are choosing to do your conversions - in the DVD player or in the TV. If this is different between the two inputs perhaps that has an impact.

Originally posted by August West
A few things come to mind. First, make sure that your S-video input and HDMI inputs on your TV are set up the same in terms of video settings. that is, could you contrast be set all the way up on the HDMI input and causing artifacts, for example. that are not present on your (assumedly properly set up) S video input.

You could also have a defective player or TV. I have one or the other as my HDMI input has real bad audio problems even though I just had a repair done to the TV and the DVD player worked fine on other TVs in the store.

I have heard, but do not know first hand, that HDMI cables are limited in length before digital snow occurs. How long is your cable?

The last thing I can think of would be a function of where you are choosing to do your conversions - in the DVD player or in the TV. If this is different between the two inputs perhaps that has an impact.

Thank you for your reply

I do have the color/contrast/sharpness etc... settings for both HDMI and S-video set the same. Of course some settings that have to do with de-interlacing do not affect HDMI.

The HDMI cable that I am using is the 6' cable supplied with the S97.

I agree that the differences could be that the Z3 is doing a better job at both deinterlacing and up-converting compared the the S97. But I was expecting, based on the many glowing reviews on this message board, that the S97 would provide superior up res and deinterlacing.

Tom

The benefits of upscaling depend upon the quality of the scaler and deinterlacer in the display. If the display does the superior job with both tasks then the benefits of upconversion may be minimal if at all.

Each input should be calibrated individually, if possible. Settings for component might not match those of HDMI.

Paul

The subtitle function can be two step:

1. Turn on/off.
2. Select language.

Turning "0ff", in theory should prevent subtitles. However there are situations described below:

1. I have not see this with the S97 but with some older players, depending upon the disc, subtitles would automatically display regardless of intention and had to be manually turned off.

2. Also, just to be sure, some discs may have subtitles encoded into the video (some foreign animation discs come to mind or questionable bootleg copies recorded from foreign movie screens) and will display no matter what because the subtitles are part of the displayed video information.

Paul

Ya, but for me I see subtitles for all DVDs, US and International. And then i have to switch them off. Dont you?

Originally posted by TCroly

Can anyone explain why my HDMI output looks noisier than the S-video?

Tom

I have noticed the same thing. I doubt its a setting issue with contrast. Most likely 540 is causing more noise over hdmi. I had to set nr settings to 1 in order to eliminate it. I didn't have that problem with 536.

With HDMI hooked up to my JVC I get no added noise from the player at all. This is easy to see with the DVD logo, Looking at the blue background through component I see some added noise but when I switch to HDMI there is no noise it looks like a computer monitor completely solid and free of noise.

I have noticed added noise in both component and hdmi. It is most noticeable on older dvds but if you look closely it is there on newer dvds as well. If you haven't noticed it then don't worry about it. But I didn't see it with 536 so I can only conclude it's being caused by 540 and it is subtle. When I increase NR settings to 1 it goes away. Another fault with 540 it seems.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Ya, but for me I see subtitles for all DVDs, US and International. And then i have to switch them off. Dont you?

No. I have never seen the subtitles appear for any disc I've put into the player unless I turned the subtitles on. I've put a *lot* of different discs into this player.

A suggestion: Note your settings then reset to factory defaults and see what happens.

Paul

Originally posted by jakeman
I have noticed the same thing. I doubt its a setting issue with contrast. Most likely 540 is causing more noise over hdmi. I had to set nr settings to 1 in order to eliminate it. I didn't have that problem with 536.

Just a quick thought:

S-Video is 480i analog and may be experiencing some high frequency rolloff. The rolloff can give the appearance of a smoother picture (at the expense of very fine detail).

How do the DVE high frequency patterns compare with S-Video vs. HDMI?

Paul

Panasonic does not have an online manual can some one PLEASE tell me if I need a (male or female) HDMI to male DVI adpater.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Just a quick thought:

S-Video is 480i analog and may be experiencing some high frequency rolloff. The rolloff can give the appearance of a smoother picture (at the expense of very fine detail).

How do the DVE high frequency patterns compare with S-Video vs. HDMI?

Paul

A quick thought and indeed a good one.

)To review, I have noticed that the HDMI output from my S97 looks noisy compared to the S-video or to the component video outputs.)

Your question caused me to closely re-examine the DVE test images and much to my surprise all three inputs, component, S-Video and HDMI ended up with the identical Contrast/Color/Tint/Sharpness settings as ideal. I did notice that HDMI does not pass blacker than black unless the brightness setting on the player is set to +1 or more.

I looked at the high frequency test patterns (Mutiburst, Luminance Sweep and Pb, Pr Sweep) and indeed the S-video was inferior to both the HDMI and the component. But it was still very good. Component had the best high frequency reproduction. Honestly, I know what loss of high frequency detail looks like and I don't think that this is the problem that I am seeing in the HDMI.

But the DVE test pattern that I really think showed the problem that I am having was the "Reverse Shadow Ramp" image (title 12 chapter 15). In this continuous tone image, I notice that the S-video and Component inputs reproduce it very smoothly and faithfully. But the HDMI input causes it to be chopped up. Kind of like if you only had 256 levels of grey instead of 65,000. There were lines separating each level of grey. When I played with the sharpness control of my display (Sanyo Z3) I found it has no affect on this. But when I adjusted the sharpness control on the S97, then I could accentuate or reduce this artifact. With Sharpness set a 0 the choppiness was noticeable, with sharpness set at -7, I could almost eliminate it. with sharpness set at +7 it was horribly obvious.

I can slightly see this artifact in the S-video and component inputs but only when I push the sharpness on the player up to +7. I also see that if I set the scaling of the S97 to 480p instead of 720p or 1080i, this artifact is eliminated.

I would be grateful if someone else could take a look at their DVE disk and see if you get the same results. This could be a problem between this player and my projector, but I don't know.

Tom

Update: I have spent the evening looking at and describing test patterns to see if I can find the source of my noisy HDMI image. And maybe nobody knows what I mean by "noisy image". I found that the DVE test image called "model w/chip chart" title 17 chapter 6, shows the noisy image very well. If you look at the large grey box above the color chips you can see that it is not stable via the HDMI input. In S-Video and component it is not perfectly stable, but it is much much better.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
No. I have never seen the subtitles appear for any disc I've put into the player unless I turned the subtitles on. I've put a *lot* of different discs into this player.

A suggestion: Note your settings then reset to factory defaults and see what happens.

Paul

Hmm. Will need to start with factory defaults in that case. Wonder why I see them. Very annoying for me to have to turn them off each time.
Anyone else see the subtitles turn on all the times? Or is it off for you all as well, unless switched on?

I did notice that HDMI does not pass blacker than black. Have others seen this?

I and others have seen this as well. The answer is a small adjustment (if I recall it was +1) to the brightness control on the DVD player to get BTB.

Originally posted by August West
I and others have seen this as well. The answer is a small adjustment (if I recall it was +1) to the brightness control on the DVD player to get BTB.
I can verify that +1 did it for me with BTB on my Panny 50DL54 with HDMI.

Originally posted by August West
I and others have seen this as well. The answer is a small adjustment (if I recall it was +1) to the brightness control on the DVD player to get BTB.

Thank you. I did find this trick when searching for blacker than black on the firmware thread. I can confirm that it worked on my Z3. I made the comment change in my original post.

Now can anyone confirm the choppiness that I am seeing in the grey ramps or the noisy image on the model with chips image?

From what I am seeing on my Z3 there is no benefit to using HDMI and up-resing to 720p or 1080i. By far the best image on my projector is achieved using component outputs.

Tom

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Panasonic does not have an online manual can some one PLEASE tell me if I need a (male or female) HDMI to male DVI adpater.

You may be best off with a HDMI-DVI cable. Here's a link:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/dviprices.htm

TCroly- Have you tried it with the DVD on but with no DVD in the player so it shows the blue DVD logo. Switch between HDMI and component and see if the player is adding any extra background noise
On my JVC D-ILA I get no background noise at all through HDMI but on component I do. By background noise I don't mean macro-blocking witch is there through HDMI, What I'm referring to looks like a mosquito type noise.

I have 540 firmware and I concur, that picture was immensely grainy, noisy, and a click of DNR to +1 it cleared it up. Does 536 has same issue too?

Originally posted by zoro
I have 540 firmware and I concur, that picture was immensely grainy, noisy, and a click of DNR to +1 it cleared it up. Does 536 has same issue too?

I got my S97 last week and immediately upgraded to 540 firmware, based on the glowing reports on this forum, so I cannot say whether 536 suffers from the same problem. I found that it took a +3 MPEG DNR to clear up the noisy HDMI image and that resulted in a much softer picture.

Tom

+1 did make it a bit softer too.

It is true that Panasonic has removed the US manual from their website.

It is still available on the Australian web site at the link below. If anyone need a US version PM me with your email address.

http://panasonic.com.au/content/library/files/F000861.pdf

Originally posted by rwestley
It is true that Panasonic has removed the US manual from their website.


The link to the US manual in the first post of this thread still works:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DVDS97.PDF

TCroly and zoro,

So in order to smooth out the picture on HDMI the sharpness needs to be set all the way down in the 97s picture menu and also the DNR should be set to +1?

Thanks

Thanks for letting us know that the old link still works. I wonder if they
are updating the manual since the regular link has been removed?

yup, sharpness zero, and dnr +1

I found that it took a +3 MPEG DNR to clear up the noisy HDMI image and that resulted in a much softer picture.

I have not played with the DNR myself (as I have not noticed the jaggies, etc. reported here. As an aside my firmware is older - I believe 528) and have a question - does anyone know if the DNR is video noise reduction only or would this also affect digital audio noise?

Originally posted by Jefftaz
TCroly and zoro,

So in order to smooth out the picture on HDMI the sharpness needs to be set all the way down in the 97s picture menu and also the DNR should be set to +1?

Thanks

For my set up it takes a setting of +3 on the DNR in order to clean up the noise from the 720 p or 1080i signal from the HDMI output. At this setting the picture quality is very soft. For my set up the component outputs produce a significantly better picture than the HDMI

Tom

Originally posted by egore
TCroly- Have you tried it with the DVD on but with no DVD in the player so it shows the blue DVD logo. Switch between HDMI and component and see if the player is adding any extra background noise
On my JVC D-ILA I get no background noise at all through HDMI but on component I do. By background noise I don't mean macro-blocking witch is there through HDMI, What I'm referring to looks like a mosquito type noise.

Last night I closely examined the blue DVD logo screen. The blue logo looked the same on all three inputs. But the black looked best on S-video image, the component almost as good and the HDMI looked like crap. Now this image is mostly black, So to examine it I boost the brighness up to max on my display. When I did this, the HDMI image showed very bad macrobocking. Or at least that is what I think it is. The dark areas looked very blochy.

Tom

TCroly- Ya what your describing is macro-blocking its worse on HDMI than component hopefully Panasonic releases another firmware to fix it.
What I was referring to is something that looks like mosquito noise dancing in the background. On my set it's only visible if I look closely at the screen and if it's on component. HDMI has no such noise unfortunately macro-blocking shows up more through HDMI.

I agree +3 was unbearably soft!

Recently updated to the 540 firmware from 536 and I am very pleased with the picture. MB seems to be reduced a bit more and overall it is just beautiful. However, I am still getting pink tint in gray/blue backgrounds and any scenes with smoke or fog.
I watched 'Deep Blue Sea' last night and any shots of the water had patches of pink tint to them. Hopefully there will be another update that will address this a bit more.
This is far and away the best picture I've seen coming out of a DVD player but it will be nice if Panasonic can get it completely dialed in via future firmware updates.

Hey All,
Just did the 540 firmware upgrade. Now going through and putting back all my settings.

I then popped in tonights features, The Motorcycle Diaries and the subtitles are getting cut off. You can't see the words on the lowest rung.

Anyone have an idea why? How can i fix this? I must have a setting wrong.

help!

thanks

Originally posted by Spoonerman
Hey All,
Just did the 540 firmware upgrade. Now going through and putting back all my settings.

I then popped in tonights features, The Motorcycle Diaries and the subtitles are getting cut off. You can't see the words on the lowest rung.

Anyone have an idea why? How can i fix this? I must have a setting wrong.

help!

thanks

Spooner,

On the s97, I'd check out all of the picture ratio options in the "display" option in the menu, confirm if the dvd is anamorph or not, and of course check your monitor aspect ratio setting cause they all 3 play in strange ways together.

Bladerunner

Hello. I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with. I just bought the Samsung hd841 2 weeks ago at Sears. I have a Samsung TX-P3071 HD 30 inch tv. I'm about to return this unit (for all kinds of problems I'm having) and was thinking of ordering this panny next week. My questions are as followed.

On the samsung hd841 I really can't tell any difference in the picture quality in 480,720, or 1080 modes. To me they all look the same. The picture isn't bad but they appear all the same to my eyes. Will I be able to tell any difference between these modes with the panny s97? I really don't want to shell out the extra cash if I'm not going to see a real difference.

Now if I do order one it will have to be online. Can anyone suggest an online retailer that will be selling these with the latest upgrade. Thanks for any help one may provide.

I've posted a few times about some crackling noises I have when using the HDMI input (not present using analog audio with S-video or component). I have a new twist that I wonder if anyone has any theories on

I've played with every audio and video menu item that the DVD has and nothing seems to affect the noise EXCEPT that the noise is substantially reduced when using 480p as compared to 720p or 1080i. I was surprised as I thought of these as being related to the video signal only. This effect is repeatable and I am sure that this is occuring. Any ideas as to why this could be?

DNR settings do not affect this.

I'm running an older firmware (528 i believe) and I'm wondering if something like this could be fixed in a newer firmware as it appears to be a digital processing issue and not something like a ground loop.

Originally posted by Bladerunner1959
Spooner,

On the s97, I'd check out all of the picture ratio options in the "display" option in the menu, confirm if the dvd is anamorph or not, and of course check your monitor aspect ratio setting cause they all 3 play in strange ways together.

Bladerunner

good advice, my bet is that your picture setting in the display options is set to "Auto". This fills out the entire screen with the picture, like a zoom feature. For example, if I put in a widescreen movie and it has "bars" and select auto it will do exactly what you are talking about. Setting the picture to 16:9 yields a better picture but the bars will be above and below.

tacos,

The TX-P3071 is a CRT set. Depending upon the quality of the internal scaler of the Samsung you will probably see little or no difference between the 841 or the S97.

Paul

August,

I hear no issue with crackling noise using the HDMI 2-Channel audio. Did/do not have the problem with 528, 536, or 540.

However, I did notice that a Sharp LCD set would make a loud "pop" noise when using HDMI audio. The noise would happen with both the Panasonic and Sony HDMI players.

Paul

However, I did notice that a Sharp LCD set would make a loud "pop" noise when using HDMI audio. The noise would happen with both the Panasonic and Sony HDMI players.

I have this loud popping as well (Mitsu DLP) sometimes when the main menu for the DVD first comes on the screen. I took the S97 to the Mitsu store and had the same thing happen on the set in the store so I assume this is just a reality of HDMI with at least some sets and not a defect per se. For me this is OK as it only happens once when the DVD is put in. Interesting that this happened with the Sony. This would further indicate that at least some players with some TV's just do this for some reason.

So what is the general observation with 540? Good or not good? I am currently on 536. I have a Sony 60'' XBR LCD RPTV.

Originally posted by TCroly


But the DVE test pattern that I really think showed the problem that I am having was the "Reverse Shadow Ramp" image (title 12 chapter 15). In this continuous tone image, I notice that the S-video and Component inputs reproduce it very smoothly and faithfully. But the HDMI input causes it to be chopped up. Kind of like if you only had 256 levels of grey instead of 65,000. There were lines separating each level of grey. When I played with the sharpness control of my display (Sanyo Z3) I found it has no affect on this. But when I adjusted the sharpness control on the S97, then I could accentuate or reduce this artifact. With Sharpness set a 0 the choppiness was noticeable, with sharpness set at -7, I could almost eliminate it. with sharpness set at +7 it was horribly obvious.

I can slightly see this artifact in the S-video and component inputs but only when I push the sharpness on the player up to +7. I also see that if I set the scaling of the S97 to 480p instead of 720p or 1080i, this artifact is eliminated.

I would be grateful if someone else could take a look at their DVE disk and see if you get the same results. This could be a problem between this player and my projector, but I don't know.

Tom

Update: I have spent the evening looking at and describing test patterns to see if I can find the source of my noisy HDMI image. And maybe nobody knows what I mean by "noisy image". I found that the DVE test image called "model w/chip chart" title 17 chapter 6, shows the noisy image very well. If you look at the large grey box above the color chips you can see that it is not stable via the HDMI input. In S-Video and component it is not perfectly stable, but it is much much better.


I am reposting this question since I did not hear back from anyone on it. Has anyone examined the DVE test images referenced above and seen the same results as me? The banding or choppiness of the reverse shadow ramp test via HDMI is the most significant artifact that concerns me. But I also am curious how others find the model w/chip chart image in HDMI vs Component?

Tom

Hello,

No problems with ramps. Ramps are quite smooth with HDMI with Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD. This LCD display has virtually no issues with false contouring or "banding".

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
tacos,

The TX-P3071 is a CRT set. Depending upon the quality of the internal scaler of the Samsung you will probably see little or no difference between the 841 or the S97.

Paul

Hey Paul. Are you saying that I want be able to see much difference between the S97 and the 841 or that just between the upscaling modes I want be able to tell much difference? I just returned the 841. Would you recommend me going ahead and getting the S97? Thanks for your help.

Can anyone answer the above question? Thanks

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hello,

No problems with ramps. Ramps are quite smooth with HDMI with Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD. This LCD display has virtually no issues with false contouring or "banding".

Paul

Thank you Paul for your observations and thank you for all your work on this informative thread.

Is there anyone with a projection display (possibly a Z2 or Z3) who could take a look at the reverse shadow ramp and model w/chip chart tests on DVE via HDMI and let me know what you see?

Tom

Originally posted by tacos
Hey Paul. Are you saying that I want be able to see much difference between the S97 and the 841 or that just between the upscaling modes I want be able to tell much difference? I just returned the 841. Would you recommend me going ahead and getting the S97? Thanks for your help.

Typically, the reports are that a good upscaling DVI/HDMI player will not show that much benefit against a good component player for a CRT, that is the upscaling is probably superfluous -- in that case, a good component player (such as the Sony DVP-NS875V) might suffice. There are differences between the 841 and S97 such as "black crush" on the 841 and other deinterlacing/core issues as seen in the "Secrets of Home Theater" tests that might make some difference to the viewer.

It would good to know (for anyone who might answer the question) what your specific problems seen with the 841 were. In that way it might be an easier call as to whether or not the Panasonic will provide any benefit.

Paul

Got the chipped remote from dvdchips.co.uk yesterday & used it on my R1 Panny S97. Easy mod. It's now region-free. Woo-hoo! I have the v540 firmware & see no problems with PAL discs. They look terrific using my AE700U projector.

Its odd to me (at least) that the HDMI setting to convert the image to 1080i is burried under "Other Settings". First, I would have expected that the main setup area, where there is an HDMI tab, would be where this setting was housed. The "Display" area seems more suited for controling each dvd you watch (i.e. that is where you'd go to advance a chapter). Stranger though is that its under a catch-all like "other Settings". Don't most people buy the unit for its upscaling capability? Putting it under "Other settings" seems like Panasonic thinks you won't be needing to find it. It would have been nice after setting the HDMI video to "ON", to set the picture to 1080i on the same tab.

Hi folks. Got a newbie question here. I did try and search this thread first, but didn't find an answer.

Is there any way to make your subtitle settings "stick" after you power off? I like to crank down the subtitle brightness to -5 or so, but it seems like I have to wade through the menus every time I fire up the DVD player to reset this option.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Typically, the reports are that a good upscaling DVI/HDMI player will not show that much benefit against a good component player for a CRT, that is the upscaling is probably superfluous -- in that case, a good component player (such as the Sony DVP-NS875V) might suffice. There are differences between the 841 and S97 such as "black crush" on the 841 and other deinterlacing/core issues as seen in the "Secrets of Home Theater" tests that might make some difference to the viewer.

It would good to know (for anyone who might answer the question) what your specific problems seen with the 841 were. In that way it might be an easier call as to whether or not the Panasonic will provide any benefit.

Paul

Thanks again Paul. Didn't want to seem like a smart A.. Just was in a hurry yesterday and needed a fast response. The problems I had with the 841 connected via dvi was.....The movie would flicker ever so often and even had it freeze up and start shaking with The Grudge. I was happy with the picture quality. However, As I mentioned I couldn't tell any difference in 480,720, and 1080i. I also would hear popping sounds ever so often. I was going to purchase the panasonic tomorrow. But if I'm better off getting another player for cheaper it would help me as I'm by far a wealthy cat. I just want the best picture quality I can possibly get out of my TV. Thanks again.

Originally posted by ragingdavid
Is there any way to make your subtitle settings "stick" after you power off? I like to crank down the subtitle brightness to -5 or so, but it seems like I have to wade through the menus every time I fire up the DVD player to reset this option.

Good question! I haven't found a way to make the subtitle settings stick. I have tried to set the subtitles to a position -50 or -60 to keep them out of the picture information area but it reverts back to default (0) with power off. Would be nice though.

Paul

tacos,

No problem, we're all here to learn.

I think the upconversion will not be much benefit in the case of your TV. I would try first with a good deinterlacing player with component, such as the Sony DVP-NS875V -- might save you $150 or so. Save the HDMI for HDTV.

Paul

I will be getting my Panny S97/ Sammy 4674 combo soon so I can find out the answer to my question myself, but I wonder if any of you could enlighted me beforehand?

This forum and others are full of strong complaints regarding "Audio sync" problems apparently arising out of the length of time the Faroudja chip takes to process the video signal, therefore causing the audio to precede the matching video.

With a Sammy 4674, using the built in audio, the display can compensate for this as many have been told after complaining to Customer Service about this. However, if you (like most of us on this forum) run our audio through a receiver to use our 5.1 etc Dolby surround sound speakers, that can only be done with some "high end" receivers with a time delay feature.

Now, I see in the Owners Manual for the Panny S97 that it has what appears to be a similar function, called "Time Delay" allowing the user to select from 0-100ms delay in the audio signal (in 20ms increments).

I couldn't find any mention here about this...I am most interested to know if this feature will cure the infamous "Audio Sync" problem, or not? Anyone tried this function? What were the results? I hope they were positive as I am very sensative to audio sync.

PS: The manual has an odd notation under this tab. It indicates that this function will only work with an "A/V amp and a plasma display"...I have to assume that this would also operate with a DLP display etc and not be restricted to ONLY "Plasma" sets?

Does anyone have both a Panny S97 and a (or is that "an") E80 DVD recorder?
I was wondering how they compare in terms of picture quality? Is the S97 better? Or are they close?


Thanks

chuckip,

Have never used the Time Delay option on my S97/HLP5063 setup b/c I haven't had to. No audio sync issues whatsoever on the s97. My old Sony player had some.

Obviously doesn't help explain how useful the feature is but hopefully you won't have problems w/ your 74 series.

Originally posted by EricScott
chuckip,

Have never used the Time Delay option on my S97/HLP5063 setup b/c I haven't had to. No audio sync issues whatsoever on the s97. My old Sony player had some.

Obviously doesn't help explain how useful the feature is but hopefully you won't have problems w/ your 74 series.

I have the same combo, and no problems for me either. I run my audio to an Onkyo receiver.

Originally posted by bojangling
I run my audio to an Onkyo receiver.

Me too :)

Originally posted by dapdrums
Its odd to me (at least) that the HDMI setting to convert the image to 1080i is burried under "Other Settings". First, I would have expected that the main setup area, where there is an HDMI tab, would be where this setting was housed. The "Display" area seems more suited for controling each dvd you watch (i.e. that is where you'd go to advance a chapter). Stranger though is that its under a catch-all like "other Settings". Don't most people buy the unit for its upscaling capability? Putting it under "Other settings" seems like Panasonic thinks you won't be needing to find it. It would have been nice after setting the HDMI video to "ON", to set the picture to 1080i on the same tab.

Or even had a dedicated button on the remote, like some other upscaling players!

I recently purchased an S97 floormodel from a local store and am having some problems. I'm not sure if its the player or something else, but there is very significant video noise as well as other visual effects . I can see the noise clearly when there is no disc in the unit and it's displaying the Panasonic splash screen which has color banding also (I guess thats what it would be called). Movies do not look good as the noise is very visible in backgrounds especially if they are light in color. Also, when using the DVE color test pattern and the color filter I can see lines separating the colors. On the DVE gray scale the transition is not smooth. Not sure how to describe it, but it looks almost like blocks of color rather than one smooth line.

I tried a different HDMI cable and also compnent cables, but it all looks the same. My tv is a Samsung HLP 5663 DLP. Any help is greatyl appreciated.

-Scott

Originally posted by threei
I recently purchased an S97 floormodel from a local store and am having some problems. I'm not sure if its the player or something else, but there is very significant video noise as well as other visual effects . I can see the noise clearly when there is no disc in the unit and it's displaying the Panasonic splash screen which has color banding also (I guess thats what it would be called). Movies do not look good as the noise is very visible in backgrounds especially if they are light in color. Also, when using the DVE color test pattern and the color filter I can see lines separating the colors. On the DVE gray scale the transition is not smooth. Not sure how to describe it, but it looks almost like blocks of color rather than one smooth line.

I tried a different HDMI cable and also compnent cables, but it all looks the same. My tv is a Samsung HLP 5663 DLP. Any help is greatyl appreciated.

-Scott


I received my S97 a few weeks ago and am experiencing much the same results as you are when using the HDMI cable to feed my Sanyo Z2 projector. The video show some noise via HDMI that I find is not present via component video. Also, the DVE ramp tests are all choppy and banded, much as you describe.

I have found that the banding in the grey scale ramp tests cam be reduced by using 480p instead of 720p or 1080i. So I wonder if the HDMI cable might be limiting the band width or if the scaler in the S97 is just not up to par.

Take a look at the test image called model w/chip chart" title 17 chapter 6 and see if you too can reduce the video noise by using component instead of HDMI or by using 480p instead of 720p.

I posted twice about these problems in the past week, but no one else has responded that they have similar problems. So I wonder if we have defective units or if others are just less observant.

Tom

Originally posted by TCroly
I received my S97 a few weeks ago and am experiencing much the same results as you are when using the HDMI cable to feed my Sanyo Z2 projector. The video show some noise via HDMI that I find is not present via component video. Also, the DVE ramp tests are all choppy and banded, much as you describe.

I have found that the banding in the grey scale ramp tests cam be reduced by using 480p instead of 720p or 1080i. So I wonder if the HDMI cable might be limiting the band width or if the scaler in the S97 is just not up to par.

Take a look at the test image called model w/chip chart" title 17 chapter 6 and see if you too can reduce the video noise by using component instead of HDMI or by using 480p instead of 720p.

I posted twice about these problems in the past week, but no one else has responded that they have similar problems. So I wonder if we have defective units or if others are just less observant.

Tom

Tom and Scott,

I got my s97 yesterday and I have a Panny AE700 and DVE. The charts you were asking about look perfect to me. No sign of banding or any other noise. I don't know if it has anything to do with it but I installed 540 firmware this morning.

Tony

I should have mentioned that I am using HDMI at 1080i. I am not using the HDMI cable that came with the s97 as I already had one from my Toshiba SD-5970 (now gathering dust).

Tony

Tony,
Thanks for your reply. Can I clarify that you are seeing no video noise or "shimmering" on the grey section of the color chart of the "model w/chip chart test image (title 18 chapter 6) and the continuous tone grey ramp test (title 12 - chapter 14 and 15) images contain no banding via HDMI at 1080. Both are very obvious on my Z3 via HDMI.

If this is the case I am suspecting that the HDMI cable that was supplied with the player could be causing my problem.

Tom

Originally posted by TCroly
Tony,
Thanks for your reply. Can I clarify that you are seeing no video noise or "shimmering" on the grey section of the color chart of the "model w/chip chart test image (title 18 chapter 6) and the continuous tone grey ramp test (title 12 - chapter 14 and 15) images contain no banding via HDMI at 1080. Both are very obvious on my Z3 via HDMI.

If this is the case I am suspecting that the HDMI cable that was supplied with the player could be causing my problem.

Tom

I can confirm that with my panasonic projector. I will try the Panasonic cable to see if there is any difference.

Tony

EDIT: I Recant this statement in my post below...

I see the same thing over component as well as hdmi, I have also tried 2 different hdmi cables. I'm starting to think its my display. I was checking things out and had the same video noise with my old player. I also saw the noise over component 1 where my dish is receiver is hooked up. Even with the receiver off I could still see the noise although it's not nearly as noticeable as on the Panny's splash screen. Maybe because the receiver is sending a true hd signal the noise does not look as bad and has not really bothered me so far. But with a DVD, the noise is terrible and quite distracting.

Originally posted by TCroly
I am reposting this question since I did not hear back from anyone on it. Has anyone examined the DVE test images referenced above and seen the same results as me? The banding or choppiness of the reverse shadow ramp test via HDMI is the most significant artifact that concerns me. But I also am curious how others find the model w/chip chart image in HDMI vs Component?

Tom

I've used component 480i/P into an Iscan plus straight S-video into the PJ and have always seen noise in the clip chart image, the noise varies depending on the block color. Consdering the rest of disk is essentially noise free I just assumed this noise was engineered into the image for some top secret evaluative purpose. I personally found this image very effective for evaluating the effectiveness of noise reducers. Probably of little help to you as I can't compare these results to he HDMI output.

Originally posted by TCroly
Tony,
Thanks for your reply. Can I clarify that you are seeing no video noise or "shimmering" on the grey section of the color chart of the "model w/chip chart test image (title 18 chapter 6) and the continuous tone grey ramp test (title 12 - chapter 14 and 15) images contain no banding via HDMI at 1080. Both are very obvious on my Z3 via HDMI.

If this is the case I am suspecting that the HDMI cable that was supplied with the player could be causing my problem.

Tom

Tom,

I tried the Panasonic cable and I see the noise on Model w/chips. I went back to my Toshiba cable (which appears to be the identical cable by the way) and I see it there too. The first time I was just sitting on the couch kinda casual like. The image looked OK to me. The second time I went up to the screen where the noise was quite visible. When I backed off to the couch it was still quite visible. On the reverse ramps I see banding but it appears to be Fixed Panel Noise which tends to show up strongly with certain shades of gray on my projector. It is my one gripe about my panny. There might be some other banding in there but it is hard to separate from the FPN on my machine. I doubt that the banding has anything to do with the cable. Random noise maybe, but banding just doesn't seem likely.

I saw a thread earlier where a guy was moaning about FPN on his Z2. Have you ever noticed it on your Z3 before?

Maybe I'll break out the old Toshiba and see how it looks with that.

EDIT:

OK, I Tried the Toshiba player (SD-5970 HDMI 1080i) and I see the same noise in model w/chips. That is most likely just a DVE recording issue. Maybe it was supposed (!?) to look that way. The reverse shallow ramps is another story. There is definitely less banding with the Toshiba player. The FPN is still visible but a regular vertical banding is visible in the second bright bar from the top on the right side on the S97 that is not visible on the Toshiba. So far I have not noticed anything like this showing up in the actual movie material I have watched but I haven't had it very long yet.

The responsiveness of this player and the fact that the color space is correct after upconverting is very pleasing to me. I could not stand operating the Toshiba. I did not particularly care for the PQ of my Spiderman 2 DVD on this player (not superbit) but I think that is mostly the mastering of that particular DVD. After I've had it a while I will have more to say about PQ. So far, I love my s97.

Thanks everybody!
Tony,
My Z3 has some fixed panel noise, and my Z2 had a bit more. But I don't think that the banding in the grey ramps is only a result of the FPN. I say this because it is reduced greatly when using component or s-video. If I turn the sharpness control on the DVD player up then it can be seen on all inputs, but with the sharpness set a 0, I only see it on the HDMI. If I set the output to 480p via HDMI then the banding is greatly reduced.

Hugh,
The model w/chip chart image does always have some noise in the grey blocks and I agree that it is an effective test image for evaluating video noise reducers. But when I view this image via HDMI it is literally buzzing. Yet when viewed over component or s-video with the same display set-up it looks much less noisy.

I too like this DVD player very much. I am just perplexed as to why I see so many people raving about PQ via up-sampled HDMI and for my display this produces an inferior PQ when compared to component at 480p. I was expecting a significant improvement with this player over my 3 year old Panasonic RP62 and via component there is some improvement, but as for HDMI I cannot say the same. I guess I was expecting too much.

Tom

Originally posted by TCroly
Thanks everybody!
Tony,
My Z3 has some fixed panel noise, and my Z2 had a bit more. But I don't think that the banding in the grey ramps is only a result of the FPN. I say this because it is reduced greatly when using component or s-video. If I turn the sharpness control on the DVD player up then it can be seen on all inputs, but with the sharpness set a 0, I only see it on the HDMI. If I set the output to 480p via HDMI then the banding is greatly reduced.

Hugh,
The model w/chip chart image does always have some noise in the grey blocks and I agree that it is an effective test image for evaluating video noise reducers. But when I view this image via HDMI it is literally buzzing. Yet when viewed over component or s-video with the same display set-up it looks much less noisy.

I too like this DVD player very much. I am just perplexed as to why I see so many people raving about PQ via up-sampled HDMI and for my display this produces an inferior PQ when compared to component at 480p. I was expecting a significant improvement with this player over my 3 year old Panasonic RP62 and via component there is some improvement, but as for HDMI I cannot say the same. I guess I was expecting too much.

Tom

The amount of buzzing you see could be for several reasons. Just speculating here but I'm an old engineer so bear with me.

First, upconverting. To create an upconverted image, information for the extra scan lines has to be interpolated from the surrounding pixels. It seems to me that interpolating between pixels of random color/brightness (noise) would yield more of the same. You now have high resolution noise :). Actually, it would depend on the algorithms used I suspect.

Second, bandwidth. The component outputs, I believe but am not absolutely certain, are analog. This means that they suppress high frequency information, at least more so than a pure digital connection. It is possible that the added bandwidth makes the noise pattern appear noisier as this noise contains more high frequency components than most video. In other words, a pattern with lots of high frequencies in it might be reproduced better via HDMI. Perhaps you could notice something by studying the resolution charts in 480p component versus 1080i HDMI. I wouldn;t be surprised if the high frequency patterns were crisper with HDMI. Effectively the lower bandwidth of component video would be filtering the noise and softening it.

Now, wouldn't it be interesting if those bands were actually there in the DVE data, but were not usually visible because of bandwidth limitations. It is not unusual for "better" systems to look/sound worse because they are more faithful to the source. Probably not, right?

Oh, there's another possibilty. The HDMI on the S97 is screwed up. But I don't like that answer.

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Does anyone have both a Panny S97 and a (or is that "an") E80 DVD recorder?
I was wondering how they compare in terms of picture quality? Is the S97 better? Or are they close?


Thanks
The E80 produces a great picture over 480p and when running both players at 480p over component or s-video PQ is the same. Where the s97 excels is on HDMI at either 720p or 1080i. Some other posters are suggesting that 480p is preferable but that must be very display dependent or a cabling issue. Be careful about upgrading to either 536 or 540. Both versions have faults. If macroblocking is bothersome go to 540 but be prepared for some noise which you should reduce using the NR settings. If macroblocking or pink tint is not an issue then staying with 536 may be better for you. I use both players with the E80 for recording but I always play out of the s97 because I think the scaled picture on HDMI is that much better.

jakeman,

Thanks for the reply. My TV is a Sony KDF55WF655 and there seems to be some concern over the HDMI input (apparently it's not true digital). Some say it's best to use the tv's scaler.

I guess the only way to find out out is to try it.....

Originally posted by jakeman
dependent or a cabling issue. Be careful about upgrading to either 536 or 540. Both versions have faults.
jakeman-
I don't recall any faults with 536.
Did I miss something ?

There's always cavaets with firmware updates thus the warning on the first post of the firmware thread.

Paul

Penton-Man

I guess its relative Penton. 540 has less macroblocking and pink but slight noise which is where the NR settings come in handy. 536 has somewhat more macroblocking and blacks aren't as deep as 540 but no noise was evident. I upgraded to 540 but wish I had stayed with 536 because blocking wasn't an issue for me and the deeper black is not that perceptible. Also I believe the 540 upgrade did introduce noise which wasn't there with 536. I would be curious on your comparison if you did the 540 upgrade.

NoPlasmaYet

I agree it is best to try it out but my experience has been to use the s97 scaler through HDMI and I like the results compared to running component through the E80. If you are running through hdmi it is a digital input so it will bring out the true quality of the recording more than through component. That's why I try to use XP setting on the E80 as much as possible.

Sorry for the cross post, but I am still looking to wether this player can in fact play HDCD. The manual makes it sound like a light will turn on when a HDCD is being played. See Page 5 of the manual. Also, shine a light into the display window and you can see that there is a HDCD figure built into the LCD. But when I put a CD that has the HDCD label, nothing lights up. My Denon 3805 can also decode a HDCD bit stream, but nothing shows up there also. Any ideas? Maybe because I am upconverting the bitstream to 192? Any ideas?

Originally posted by jakeman
I upgraded to 540 but wish I had stayed with 536 because blocking wasn't an issue for me and the deeper black is not that perceptible. Also I believe the 540 upgrade did introduce noise which wasn't there with 536. I would be curious on your comparison if you did the 540 upgrade.

Well,
I ended up staying with 536 out of dumb luck (my computer was on the fritz when the firmware upgrade was originally posted and Paul gave me a heads-up) and couch- potato, sloth-like laziness ….as my local Panny service center put both Paul and I thru the proverbial washing machine cycle just to get the 536 version *legally*.

MB was never an issue for me with my display sos eyes stayin with 536…..at least until I get bored and energetic enough just to try something new.:)

Hello Penton-Man and everyone,

Stay with what you like. If 528 has no issue with the display then stick with it. If there's some light MB or pink-gray issue give 536 a spin. If not happy with 536 give 540 a try knowing PAL and some reported lessening of detail and increase of noise might be problem.

Like Penton-Man I had virtually no problem with MB at 528 with my display -- I really had to look for it -- the pink-gray was probably more of a problem.

Paul

"MB was never an issue for me with my display sos eyes stayin with 536…..at least until I get bored and energetic enough just to try something new."


If you want to try new positions that's one thing. But if you are looking for new thrills from 540, I would stay with 536.

For what it's worth, I am very pleased with my decision to go with 540. I have a Sammy HLP5063 and was very bothered by the MB with 528 and even 536. MB is virtually eliminated with 540 (based on what I have watched thus far). Also, I bumped up 3D DNR to +1 and that took care of the slight increase in "noise".

Every time after I played a DVD and tried to listen to some CD, the digital output from both the optical and coax was turned off. Got signal only from the L & R RCA ports. I have to manually enable it on the OSD (DISPLAY -> OTHER SETTINGS -> AUDIO MENU -> Dolby ProLogic II -> Music). By doing so I have to turn on my TV as well.

Does anyone else have this problem? My current firmware is 536. Will 540 fix this problem or it's a design of the player? On the other hand, my 5-year old Sony player has all ports active regardless of media type. :confused:

vg92,

Try turning the A/V Enhancer to "off" (see pg. 9 of manual).

Paul

Originally posted by jakeman
"
If you want to try new positions that's one thing.
You've been reading my mail.:)

I bought an S97 a few months ago, but just pulled the trigger on my new TV last week. I got a Grand Wega 55XS955 (rear projection LCD).

I spent a whole day with my DVE calibration disc and my conclusion was that I clearly got the best picture by outputting 480i and letting the TV's scaler do it's thing.

This was a bit surprising to me (and disappointing) given that the whole reason I chose this DVD player was to give me a high quality all-digital signal path.

Here's what I noticed:

480i (via component) = crisp clear picture, marginal black crush (due to the TV, not the DVD player, I think)

480p (via component) = noticably blurry picture, marginal black crush

480p (via HDMI) = noticably blurry picture, obvious black crush, pink tinge to blacks

720p (via HDMI) = marginally blurry picture, obvious black crush, noticable macroblocking, pink tinge to blacks

The Sony TV is supposed to have a great scaler, but still I expected more from the S97. I played with all the settings the TV and the DVD had to offer (which is alot), but these results were consistent regardless of most settings.

Can anyone suggest anything I'm doing wrong? Do you think the S97's firmware upgrade would help? Shouldn't the black levels be better through HDMI? Do you think I got a lemon?

thanks
/dave

I just bought the S97 for its ability to upconvert however it isn't with my Z2. I have tried every menu and I see know option to change to 720 on the player. While playing the led light on the front is on video but the 720/1080 doesn't light up. When I go to my menu on the Z2 it only shows 480 as an option while it should show 720 if it is available; it did with my hd cable box. The Z2 has a DVI out and I am using a DVI cable with an HDMI adapter. I have tried several different length DVI cables without luck. By the way I used my DVI cable for HD for comcast cable so I know it works. Any suggestions? Can't find any in the manual.

Thanks

Jeff

Click the display button on the remote. Go to other settings and then picture. There you can switch it to 720p.

Thanks threei, I actually just figured it out and was coming back to post. What an inconvenient place to put it.

PAUL - I could use your help because Pana Consumer Tech support (as opposed to their broadcast support which rocks) is horrible.

I have the S97 hooked via HDMI to a Pana 50PHD7UY. The only option I get for color space is RGB..

No YCbCr options at all.

I have got to figure my Plasma is sophisticated enough to support these other options... Any ideas?

BG

brigont,

You have a reply. I don't have the display, but, apparantly the HDMI connection is "smart" and will only allow the selections the dispaly can converse in.

For example, the S97 when connected to a Panasonic TC-22LH1 display, "knows" that 720p isn't a viable selection. Also, it knows that while 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and RGB is accepted by the 22LH1, it isn't accpeted by the Hitachi 32HDT55 via HDMI/DVI. RGB is the only selection in that case. The S97 also then allows for the 720p which the Hitachi accepts.

Paul

Originally posted by ragingdavid

Can anyone suggest anything I'm doing wrong?
No, I think you may have just proved that the processing functions in your TV are better than those in the Panny DVD player.

Hugh2, care to chime in ?

Originally posted by ragingdavid
I bought an S97 a few months ago, but just pulled the trigger on my new TV last week. I got a Grand Wega 55XS955 (rear projection LCD).

I spent a whole day with my DVE calibration disc and my conclusion was that I clearly got the best picture by outputting 480i and letting the TV's scaler do it's thing.

This was a bit surprising to me (and disappointing) given that the whole reason I chose this DVD player was to give me a high quality all-digital signal path.

Here's what I noticed:

480i (via component) = crisp clear picture, marginal black crush (due to the TV, not the DVD player, I think)

480p (via component) = noticably blurry picture, marginal black crush

480p (via HDMI) = noticably blurry picture, obvious black crush, pink tinge to blacks

720p (via HDMI) = marginally blurry picture, obvious black crush, noticable macroblocking, pink tinge to blacks

The Sony TV is supposed to have a great scaler, but still I expected more from the S97. I played with all the settings the TV and the DVD had to offer (which is alot), but these results were consistent regardless of most settings.

Can anyone suggest anything I'm doing wrong? Do you think the S97's firmware upgrade would help? Shouldn't the black levels be better through HDMI? Do you think I got a lemon?

thanks
/dave
This is what occurs when a display does not allow for 1:1 pixel mapping.

My Sony LCD chops off a large amount of the outside perimeter of the picture even though it is not necessary at all to do this. The remaining pixels are interpolated and zoomed. This is the blurriness you see.

It is about time that other such as yourself can see this effect that I wrote about years ago (when the GWIII came out).

A good test for anyone is to digitally connect a 1280*720p @60Hz Windows computer (to their TV/monitor) with single wide pixel text. The amount of degradation can be rather surprising!

Reincarnate:
Would this fact indicate the Sony DVP-NS975V might be a better choice for the Sony XS LCD TVs or would these monitors have the same results using the HDMI connector mode?

Reincarnate:

I'd like to understand your point a bit more. I realize that my Sony XS has an odd number of pixels (788 vertical, I believe), but I still don't see why 480i (over component) should turn out to be the best picture, as compared to say 480p (over HDMI).

Even if I had a "standard" pixel count (720) the TV would still have upscaling to deal with at 480i or 480p. If I set the DVD player to 720p , then I'm relying on the DVD player to scale up from 480 to 720. There just doesn't seem like a scenario that doesn't involve software scaling.

Also, I don't really find my Sony "chopping off" much of the picture. Using the 1.78:1 overscan patterns on my Digital Video Essentials, it seems like I only have about 2-3% overscan, which is pretty good for a RPTV, at least according to what I've read.

Originally posted by idreos
Reincarnate:
Would this fact indicate the Sony DVP-NS975V might be a better choice for the Sony XS LCD TVs or would these monitors have the same results using the HDMI connector mode?
I forgot to add that the reason why their IS overscan is because Sony pulls another dirty trick: they convert the digital signal to analog (causing overscan) then convert back to digital!

I don't know if the current Sony monitors still act the way. Hopefully the new Qualia 006 is capable of 1:1 pixel mapping. For the Sony monitors that act the way mine does, analog component 480p is best.

Note: HDTV at 1920*1080i is still best sent digital to the Sony monitor.

I should also clarify that when I say I get more "black crush" when using HDMI, what I'm really seeing is less overall greyscale range over HDMI as compared to component. Using the greyscale ramps on the DVE disc, it's very obvious.

With the component feed I have the luxury to adjust my TV's brightness & contrast so that I can easily see the difference between 95% and 100% black, as well as 95% and 100% white. If I overdrive the brightness just a bit, I can even seen BTB, which as I understand it is pretty good performance for an LCD RPTV.

Using the HDMI feed, I just don't get this range. If I crank up the brightness enough to see the 95/100 black transition, I have totally crushed the whites. If I turn down the brightness I just get a solid block from about 90% black on down.

I thought HDMI was supposed to be better at this, no?

Reincarnate:

thanks for that clarification.
Now that has brought up another question.

If you have a Sony that does that digital to analog and then back to digital 'smoke and mirrors' conversion, it would cancel out any benefit of an HDMI upconversion. Wouldn't that negate the need for an upconverting dvd player for use with the GW 3 and GW 4 series (which both use that conversion trickery)
Maybe I'm missing something but why buy an upconverting player if you have to use the 480i with component to get the best picture?
Jim

idreos:

While somewhat off topic for this thread, I thought I'd offer a note of clarification: The latest GW's have an all digital data path.

The lower end of this year's Sony models (WE610 for example) still use analog internals, but the upper end (XS955) are supposed to be all digital now.

According to the Sony web site:

WEGA Engine

The WEGA Engine is a unique Sony advantage that is a key driving force behind the superior picture quality of the Grand WEGA television. Based on Sony's expertise in digital signal processing, the WEGA Engine processes all video signals in the digital domain. By completing all video processing digitally, there is no need to repeatedly convert back and forth between an analog and digital signal. This serves to eliminate any degradation in the video signal and unwanted video noise generation.

So it is (theoretically) worth upgrading to a player that has HDMI, although you can tell from my recent post that my particular results aren't so great in practice.

Originally posted by reincarnate
Hopefully the new Qualia 006 is capable of 1:1 pixel mapping.
Sheeeesh,
Was that just an olive branch offered to me by reincarnate?

ragingdavid- Through HDMI I need to set contrast at -1 and brightness at +1 in the DVD players "user" menu to not get white crush and to pass BTB. If I do that I get comparable grey scale performance to component.

Man AVS Forum is killing me........1st I got a Sony 34xbr960......then a panny AE700 w/B&W 81EF filter......Had to upgrade DVD player so a new panny S97 was in order....and don't forget the popcorn machine in the powerbuy (4oz Contempo). All this in the last 6 months. My wife's ready to leave me....Oh I forgot the bass shakers that came yesterday. Does this madness ever end? I hope not......:)

Fun isn't it?

My S97 still going strong after 5+ months. Is this player proving to be reliable? I can't recall a single hiccup with mine.

Paul

Originally posted by idreos
Reincarnate:

thanks for that clarification.
Now that has brought up another question.

If you have a Sony that does that digital to analog and then back to digital 'smoke and mirrors' conversion, it would cancel out any benefit of an HDMI upconversion. Wouldn't that negate the need for an upconverting dvd player for use with the GW 3 and GW 4 series (which both use that conversion trickery)
Maybe I'm missing something but why buy an upconverting player if you have to use the 480i with component to get the best picture?
Jim
You are correct. Sony has been going through internal upheavals for several years. They have made many mistakes, but do have some of the best LCD technology. I have been waging a campaign to knock some sense into their heads.

For example, the coming HD Dvd players must include HDMI output for high resolution multi-channel AUDIO as well as video. One cable for everything, just as Panasonic has already done with the DVD97 and XR70 receiver combination.

I second what Paul has said about the 97S. It is a great player with not problems. It plays everything I put in it. The only wish is to have it region free.

Originally posted by rwestley
I second what Paul has said about the 97S. It is a great player with not problems. It plays everything I put in it. The only wish is to have it region free.

Mine has been been flawless as well but a couple weeks ago I rented a DVD which it would not play and the message showed "can not read this type of disk" or something to that effect. Played in my toshiba player fine and the player at the rental shop. Other than that, no issues.

Originally posted by rwestley
I second what Paul has said about the 97S. It is a great player with not problems. It plays everything I put in it. The only wish is to have it region free.

Has anyone tried to learn the commands from the region free remote to see if they can be duplicated? It seems that if you could obtain the commands (in hex form or whatever) that the remote uses, you could convert the player with any PC-programmable universal remote.

You can get a very cheap single-use remote to de-zone the player here:

www.dvdchips.co.uk

I did the upgrade to my Panasonic S97, and I can now play PAL. It works just as promised. The problem is that the image flickers occasionally. I don't think that has anything to do with the multizone upgrade. I'm trying to resolve the problem. Any ideas? I've upgraded the firmware on my unit. I have another multizone DVD player (Electrohome) that works fine, so I know the problem is with the S97.

- John

50 cdn isn't very cheap to make a player region free.

Do these cheap remotes send out the signal more than once?

If so someone could capture it with a harmony remote or the like and post the hex on the inet so we can all use it on a PDA with Infrared

Do these cheap remotes send out the signal more than once?
No, just once. If you screw up, the remote is useless. They send the remote w/two AAA batteries, but not installed.

Hey Brajesh - I saw your earlier post about having no problems with the PAL image after using the dvdchips upgrade.

I have this flicker that occurs fairly frequently, and its really irritating. It looks like sync is lost for a moment because the scan warps momentarily.

I did the dvdchips upgrade AFTER upgrading to 540 - is that the order that you did? Is there perhaps some setting that I need to tweak? I'm using progressive component out. What output are you using? I haven't tried HDMI or S-Video yet.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

- John

Hey Guys,

Anybody find this player instock? I just got a hlp4674 and want to try the panny.


Mahalo

************** has the S975V (which might be the "new" S97) in stock at 299. I didn't study the specs, but it looks like its same as s97.

The S975V would be the present Sony DVD-NS975V upconverting HDMI player. The new, upconverting Panasonic HDMI player is the DVD-S77.

Paul

I did the dvdchips upgrade AFTER upgrading to 540 - is that the order that you did? Is there perhaps some setting that I need to tweak? I'm using progressive component out. What output are you using?
I also did the dvdchips upgrade after upgrading to v540. I'm using HDMI output, but I don't see why that should make a difference. I'll try watching a PAL disc for over an hour & let you know if I see any "flicker" issue.

Thanks Brajesh

I just realized that I am NOT at 540, but 536. I am hesitant to upgrade to 540, however, because I have heard about issues relating to PAL playback with 540... but it can't be worse than the flicker problem I am currently having.

Is there anyone else out there running the dvdchips de-zone upgrade with 536 using progressive scan component video out? If so, do you have the flicker problem that I describe above? Any help would be appreciate.

Thanks,

John

540 will break your 720p in PAL but if you are using component video out then you are not using upconvertion at all (480p or 480i) and 540 should not hurt you (your risk ... don't quote me on this ;-) I am still running 536 and my display certainly can't handle the upconverted PAL out via HDMI).

The S97 plays PAL natively without convertion to NTSC like most other players (for example 318, most cheap players). That has nothing to do with region encoding. Somehow your display has issues with the PAL 50Hz output out of the S97 in that mode (I assume the flicker you see is caused by this).

Originally posted by jbadger
I just realized that I am NOT at 540, but 536. I am hesitant to upgrade to 540, however, because I have heard about issues relating to PAL playback with 540... but it can't be worse than the flicker problem I am currently having.

Is there anyone else out there running the dvdchips de-zone upgrade with 536 using progressive scan component video out? If so, do you have the flicker problem that I describe above? Any help would be appreciate.
John

Hi Starc,

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that the problem people are having with 540 in PAL mode is only with the 720p HDMI signal. I can just go with component video when I watch PAL.

The 50 Hz issue is not a problem with my display because I have another multizone PAL/NTSC DVD player (a cheapo ElectroHome unit) which works just fine with the display in PAL. When I get a chance I'll have to try upgrading to 540 to see if it helps.

- John

I don't think 540 will help you at all. Why do you assume that your cheapo player will output PAL in 50 Hz? Most players in the US I know just output PAL at 60 Hz (PAL M) (hence US displays show it fine). Better check your displays specs and if you see 50Hz then concentrate on the player side.

Originally posted by jbadger
Hi Starc,

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that the problem people are having with 540 in PAL mode is only with the 720p HDMI signal. I can just go with component video when I watch PAL.

The 50 Hz issue is not a problem with my display because I have another multizone PAL/NTSC DVD player (a cheapo ElectroHome unit) which works just fine with the display in PAL. When I get a chance I'll have to try upgrading to 540 to see if it helps.

- John

Noticed my first bit of confirmedmacroblocking last night after a year with the player. There is a scene with intense fog in "Hotel Rwanda". Bothered me a tad, but not that big a deal. LOVE this player.

Originally posted by rwestley
I second what Paul has said about the 97S. It is a great player with not problems. It plays everything I put in it. The only wish is to have it region free.

I could not agree with you more. I am very pleased with my Grand Wega, LCD RP, but ready to toss the S975 out a window.
Had it for only 3 weeks and it loses HDMI output when it feels like it.
I fixed it once by power cycling. Now today it does not want to output HDMI for anything.
I supposedly have the latest firmware and prod. changes but this sucks.
Need to give onecall.com a call. Sony will give me a full exchange with a new one if I ship this one off to Texas under 30 days of purchase.
But I am not so sure I want another one of these.
Looking harder at the Panny now that you guys seem well past any previous issues.

Sorry to hear about the '975 problems. I wonder what the issue really is. I've had mine since November and the only operational issue I've had is that with DVE (and DVE only), the player will lose its way during disc navigation and reboot. Otherwise, not a glitch.

No operational problems with the 'S97 and the firmware updates have made some good headway into minimizing the 'S97 PQ issues.

Paul

Does anyone use this on a Sony GWIII? I'm interested in this player, but curious about PQ using a HDMI-DVI converter and any problems associated. I would like to get all the benefits of a player that upconverts, but I'm not sure if my set will support it. (KF50WE610)

Originally posted by mattbugz
Does anyone use this on a Sony GWIII? I'm interested in this player, but curious about PQ using a HDMI-DVI converter and any problems associated. I would like to get all the benefits of a player that upconverts, but I'm not sure if my set will support it. (KF50WE610)


I own a KF50WE610 and the Panasonic DVD-s97 works great with the HDMI-DVI converter at 1080i upconversion. The PQ shows a marked improvement over my previous player (Panasonic DVD-s27). I have not experienced any problems with the upconversion.

Note: When you set up the player's preferences, make sure to keep the 'RGB range' in 'standard' mode. When calibrating the TV set with DVE, I noticed that 'standard' looks better than 'enhanced'.

yes..."Standard" is correct with a DVI connection.

Update: I was looking at my S97 again. While the firmware update did wonders for it, looking at it again, I see that the pink is still there, but mainly on greys now and mostly away from black or whites. Now I am looking at everything grey and looking at the pink when I watch something. I have little to no macroblocking issues however. I hope that this pink can be eliminated!

Also, do you think that there will ever be a firmware which will allow upcoversion via components? I have a feeling that hook-up may solve many problems...

Originally posted by adalva
I own a KF50WE610 and the Panasonic DVD-s97 works great with the HDMI-DVI converter at 1080i upconversion. The PQ shows a marked improvement over my previous player (Panasonic DVD-s27). I have not experienced any problems with the upconversion.

Excellent...we share the same set!

Do you see a quite noticeable improvement between 1080i/720p versus standard 480i/p? Somewhere in this thread, someone mentions overscan that I would think makes the picture somewhat soft.

Now if I can find a retailer that keeps these in stock!!

jvc,

The liklihood of seeing an upconverting via compoent player from a major manufacturer is virtually nil -- if one shows up, it's by accident. Upconverting via component will be through "off" brands.

Paul

JVC the LG7832nxs or its sister the zenith 318 allow for upconverting through component with the older firmware which is available through the zenith 318 forum. It is a great image at 1080i only. Still it doesn't compare to the s-97 but if you need a single purpose player that's the one.

Thanks. I like what I have, but I just would like the pink to be totally gone. The new firmware has me resting a little easier now.

The DVD I used to test for the pink is "Shaft's Big Score." I know it is no reference DVD by any means, but that is where a lot of the pink shows up. Since the firmware update, the is clearly less and it is more vibrant.

How do I set the HDMI for 480i output??

The Panasonic DVD-S97 does not allow for setting the HDMI at 480i.

The Sony DVP-NS975V does allow for setting the HDMI at 480i.

Paul

Hello,

I also noticed that the new firmware update also took away the ability to watch 4:3 DVD's in that format. Now everything is forced stretched!

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
The Panasonic DVD-S97 does not allow for setting the HDMI at 480i.

The Sony DVP-NS975V does allow for setting the HDMI at 480i.

Paul

Thanks. I couldn't find it in the manual.

Originally posted by jvc
Hello,

I also noticed that the new firmware update also took away the ability to watch 4:3 DVD's in that format. Now everything is forced stretched!

If you are talking about the 540 firmware, it's because the settings got reset by the update. You need to go into the Display menu and reset the "4:3 Aspect" to "Shrink".

enjoy
gandalf

Originally posted by gand41f
If you are talking about the 540 firmware, it's because the settings got reset by the update. You need to go into the Display menu and reset the "4:3 Aspect" to "Shrink".

enjoy
gandalf

Thanks

Sorry, I'm sure it's somewhere in the 163 pages here, but can someone please tell me whether or not this player will play DVD +R DVD's? Thanks!

-Jason

Yes. Many of the specs will be found in the first post of this thread. See the "Compatibility" section.

Paul

Yes...it plays everything I have thrown at it. DVD+R and DVD+R9.

I don't know if it's been posted before but here is another way to see your player's firmware version
On the remote:
Display-Other menu-setup-display
press the display button
It will show the firmware version on the lower left on the screen
Cheers

Layer change testing update:

http://home.comcast.net/~home_theater_test/layerchange.htm

With some luck, I will add the Oppo in there tomorrow night.

Thanks for the info LiteUp!

I was wondering if anyone else has noticed a little bit of a slight scene speed up/freeze up like glitch with this player? I have it connected via hdmi to dvi and I have noticed it maybe once or twice with every movie I have watched so far. It's not that big of an issue. I did have this same problem with the samsung hd841 player. It was much worse with that player though. If anyone knows of a way to keep this from happening it would be greatly appreciated. Oh by the way, I have the 840 firmware.

Are you talking about the Layer change on dual layer DVDs? This is pretty much a fact of life, except with a small number of players that can buffer enough of the stream while the laser moves to the other layer on the disc to continue the movie.

I haven't seen a problem like this. The layer change would have momentary freeze. Are these commercial or home made DVDs?

Paul

I've been building a home theatre room and in the process upgrading my equipment. My trusty 50" LG plasma went up to our tv room and in its place is the sim ht300e and a 110" vutec silverstar screen. The high gain silverstar is noted for its plasma like look and is brutally revealling . Great images look stunning but if any artifacts are present they are magnified by the silverstar. HDTV in particular takes your breath away with this setup in either component or hdmi. The speaker system is also getting a makeover starting with a new SVS PC-ultra subwoofer.

So with all this going on I again took a hard look at the s-97(v540) and wondered whether to replace it with the denon 2910 or maybe the 3910. The image over component at 720p was amazing and after reading various reports about noise over hdmi with the screen I figured I would leave that input for HDTV. Not so. With s-97 NR settings at lowest levels and mpeg NR at 0, the picture was silky smooth, bright and punchy, in short even better than over component and relatively artifact free.

Next came the comparison with the denons, formidable players for sure and I had almost pre-determined my next "upgrade". I brought home a 2910 and ran it through its paces with as many side by side comparisons as I could do with the s-97. The consensus in my family, my toughest audience, was edging toward the s-97 especially over hdmi! What is really surprising about this is that several sim owners have complained about artifacts over hdmi on the sim but it looked very clean with the s-97, moreso than the 2910. I had been somewhat let down a couple of months ago with the image on v540 vs 536 on the plasma but with a projector I now appreciate the impact of the revision when using different display technologies. Also it has become more apparent just how powerful the noise reduction features are on the s-97, arguably its finest attribute.

Needless to say there wil be no upgrading the s-97 for now though over time I will run it up against the denon 3910. And the s-97 stays on the hdmi input with hdtv over component.



:D :D

Nice report, jakeman. Glad to hear the S97 is doing well.

Paul

Thanks for the feedback. The 2910 and S97 are exactly the two players I'm considering. But now when will the S77 hit the market?? :)

S77 is/was slated for late April, but I've seen some Panasonic LCD displays slip to May so best guess: April/May.

Paul

Yes it will be interesting to see what they've done to the s77 relative to the s97. Conjecture on my part but with the s97 out of production you would think we would be hearing more about the attributes of the s77.

I would have thought the S77 operating manual would have appeared on the Panasonic USA site by now. Perhaps the S97/S77 function identically.

Paul

Why sell an s97 without cable ? I guess that's one way to improve margins but I doubt it costs Panasonic anywhere near $50 to supply the cable. Why drop it from the line after all the positive publicity and big sales garnered. And the price point for this unit makes it without equal. I bet there is some other feature or upgrade otherwise why do it?

I thought this S77 had 1080P on it. That would be a good reason for the change. Although I do not plan on getting a new HDTV or DVD with 1080P as the current resolutions are not even realized yet.

Although, watching my favorite movies in 1080P would be something...

Could a firmware update of the S97 turn it into 1080P or does it have to be on the chip natively?

Upconversion to 1080p would be a big plus as I can get 1080p on my sim projector. I suspect they could do a firmware upgrade on the s97 to achieve the same thing but packaging into a new unit would increase sales with people like me who would be tempted to buy the s77 for that feature alone.

There is a thread in the plasma/lcd forum re: the s97 and wondering if anyone else here has noticed this:

Panasonic 42phd7uy and S97 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532415)

An interesting problem... I have the 540 firmware installed.

Finally... I was watching Star Wars the other night, and noticed that, despite my screen being 16:9, it was letterboxing the content so there were black bars on top and bottom. Why would it do this? is there a setting I have overlooked on the s97 that it is not displaying it on the full screen?

thank you for your help!

-L

Originally posted by jvc
I thought this S77 had 1080P on it. That would be a good reason for the change. Although I do not plan on getting a new HDTV or DVD with 1080P as the current resolutions are not even realized yet.

Although, watching my favorite movies in 1080P would be something...

Could a firmware update of the S97 turn it into 1080P or does it have to be on the chip natively?

Seeing as your TV will not even accept 1080p I dont seen any DVD players offering 1080p output until they do. Unless Panasonic puts a 15 pin RGB (computer) out, but I serisouly doubt that.

The only(most common) way your going to get true 1080p into one of the new 1080p TVs is to have a darn good graphics card in your computer. HDMI doesn't support 1080p.

Originally posted by lido
There is a thread in the plasma/lcd forum re: the s97 and wondering if anyone else here has noticed this:

Panasonic 42phd7uy and S97 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532415)

An interesting problem... I have the 540 firmware installed.

Finally... I was watching Star Wars the other night, and noticed that, despite my screen being 16:9, it was letterboxing the content so there were black bars on top and bottom. Why would it do this? is there a setting I have overlooked on the s97 that it is not displaying it on the full screen?

thank you for your help!

-L

StarWars (something like 2.35:1) is shot in an aspect ratio greater than 16x9 (1.78:1). The only way to get it "Full Screen" is to use of of the Zoom modes as shown on page 11 of the manual. Or use a Zoom/Stretch feature on your Display.

Originally posted by Bruno1453
StarWars (something like 2.35:1) is shot in an aspect ratio greater than 16x9 (1.78:1). The only way to get it "Full Screen" is to use of of the Zoom modes as shown on page 11 of the manual. Or use a Zoom/Stretch feature on your Display.

Which would decrease PQ because of interpolation. I'd just live with the black bars.

lido by the way, 16 divided by 9 = 1.77777777... which is rounded off, hence the name 1.78:1 by the film industry.

I find very few DVD's I watch are ever 1.78:1. Perhaps due to the type/genre that I watch??

Originally posted by mattbugz
Which would decrease PQ because of interpolation. I'd just live with the black bars.

Amen.

The S97's zoom feature is one of its weaker points. While the feature does a good job at having a lot of settings for zoom, the resulting picture isn't very good, in my opinion.

I never use the zoom except to answer questions about its fuctionality.

Paul

I have joined your ranks as an owner of an S97 for a price that can't be refused. Do I sound like a used car salesman? I just posted a link HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532657).

To all:

Please see this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5515784#post5515784

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I haven't seen a problem like this. The layer change would have momentary freeze. Are these commercial or home made DVDs?

Paul

These are the original discs. It's not the layer change. I get it alot after I pause the movie for a moment and then restart the player. It could be my TV. I use a samsung 30 inch widescreen. I have noticed the problem on 2 dvd players. The samsung hd841 (I had it alot with this player) and now with the panansonic s97s (its only slight but I still see it sometimes). I really don't know how to describe it. It's just like half the people in a scene are shaking and the rest of it is not. Then it goes back to normal. Would really like to do away with it. I'm using the 540 firmware and I'm using a blue jeans hdmi to dvi cable. Thanks

Odd. Haven't seen this problem ever. Have you been able to connect the players to another TV? Does the resolution matter? 480p, 720p, 1080i?

Paul

This is the only display I have at the moment and I only run the player at 1080i. I will check the others 480 and 720 and post back here later.

OK! Just to be sure, does composite or S-Video have a problem?

Paul

Does anyone know where these players are still available? None of the local stores have them.

Originally posted by whsbuss
Does anyone know where these players are still available? None of the local stores have them.

Got mine at a local Tweeter. Closeout price!

See THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532657) link

Originally posted by lappy4711
Does any one know of a more detailed and technical description of the s97 (audio) upsampling capabilities? The manual is horrible regarding this! Example questions:

What does each of the multi re-master modes do in terms of sampling frequency and bit depth?

...

These questions were asked awhile back but I am not aware that any answers have been posted. I am curious to know the same thing: what exactly does each of the three (audio) re-master modes do?

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks

Mark

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
OK! Just to be sure, does composite or S-Video have a problem?

Paul

So far in 720p. I haven't noticed any jittery picture. I did notice the jitter in 1080i this morning though. I don't understand it. If I notice the problem in 720p I will then check composite, and s-video. If I don't have the problem with 720 then I take it something is wrong with my 1080i.

I have noticed that problem also. I thought it was my TV. It may be the player because I cannot recall it every happening when I was watching HDTV broadcasts hooked up via component...

Never seen that problem either. Could be cable related or other electrical interference. I bought a voltage regulator/surge suppressor a long time ago when I saw that problem with older equipment.

As long as we're at it ...

When I play a DVD-Audio on this player I always get the indication "D.MIX" on the front panel. Does this mean it is not outputting the full 24/96 resolution? (I assume "D.MIX" means downmixing.)

Has anyone been able to play a DVD-A without getting the "D.MIX" indication?
If so, how do you have the player set up? No matter how I have my player set up (set speaker settings to multichannel, turn off digital output and HDMI audio output), it always says "D.MIX."

Thanks in advance ....

Mark

Just to make matters more interesting: I have no problem with 1080i (that's the mode I use it in as my Panasonic LCD does not accept 720p).

Paul

The S77 is just about here. In Canada they are now saying June and a price of $299.99:

http://digitalhomecanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=320&Itemid=51

Originally posted by LiteUp!
The S77 is just about here. In Canada they are now saying June and a price of $299.99:

http://digitalhomecanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=320&Itemid=51

So what, who wants to buy a S77 that does not have a HDMI cable that is the same thing as a S97 for the same price?

I expect a lot of people will......if they can't get an S97.

Originally posted by MDeB
As long as we're at it ...

When I play a DVD-Audio on this player I always get the indication "D.MIX" on the front panel. Does this mean it is not outputting the full 24/96 resolution? (I assume "D.MIX" means downmixing.)

Has anyone been able to play a DVD-A without getting the "D.MIX" indication?
If so, how do you have the player set up? No matter how I have my player set up (set speaker settings to multichannel, turn off digital output and HDMI audio output), it always says "D.MIX."

Thanks in advance ....

Mark

D.Mix indicates that the 6-channel MLP stream can be downmixed to two channels if required - Some DVD-A titles, such as "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" will not allow the 6-channel MLP stream to be downmixed. I believe the two QUEEN DVD-A's are also like that. Since the discs have a dedicated two channel mix, it doesn't matter.

These questions were asked awhile back but I am not aware that any answers have been posted. I am curious to know the same thing: what exactly does each of the three (audio) re-master modes do?

They synthesize high-frequency (above 20- 24kHz) information and add it to the main signal. The three difference modes control the amount and kind of HF added. I prefer #3 @ +6db on 48kHz signals - it makes a nice difference, I think, although, in reality, it's akin to just letting the HF alias sampling noise through

Originally posted by jayselle
So what, who wants to buy a S77 that does not have a HDMI cable that is the same thing as a S97 for the same price?

That's Canadian $$. I'm sure the price point in the U.S. will be somewhere around $249.

I just purchased an S97-S from Vann's and they say they have some in stock according to their website. I'm hoping it's accurate and they did send an e:mail confirmation although I'm sure it was one of the automatic ones. So good luck to any and all of us that are giving this a shot.

Good luck Keith!

Paul

Thanks Disclord for your replies to both questions.

Mark

Since switching to 720p I haven't noticed any jittering with the playback. It only does it when I use 1080i. I don't see much difference in the 2 anyway so I will be happy using 720p as long as their is no jitter. I love this player even though it has that problem (for me) in 1080i. If someone buys that s77 and needs the hdmi cable that comes with the s97 send me an email. I'll put it on ya cheap as I have no use for it. I have to use hdmi-dvi cable. thanks

tacos- Do you notice any macro blocking at 720p? On my JVC D-ILA I do so i'm using 480p. I haven't noticed any jitter.
Has anybody messed with the gamma setting in the DVD player? Avia has a test for gamma but for me it's impossible to tel what the gamma is by looking at that test pattern. Does DVE have a gamma test patern?

Hello tacos,

I've seen jittering with certain displays with certain players. For example on the Panasonic TC-22LH1, the Panasonic DVD-S97 is rock steady with 1080i, with the Denon DVD-1910 -- lots of jitter at 1080i.

Paul

Anyone with the S97S player and a Optoma H77 FP? How are the results with it? Thanks!

-Jason

egore- yes I do notice macroblocking on some movies. I noticed it just a bit on the last one I watched (Lemony Snicket). No jitter though and as I don't see much difference on my display from 720p to 1080i. I'm happy just keeping it in 720p. I think my display is the problem in 1080i for whatever reason.

As I understand it, the S97 (or any recent HDMI equipped player) is capable of outputting uncompressed (and bass-managed?) multichannel DVD-audio signals to a receiver or pre-pro with an HDMI input.

According to the HDMI.org FAQ: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp
From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. * * * * * Most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are several A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI and more are expected to be available shortly. * * * * * In most cases, any HDMI-equipped DVD player capable of supporting DVD-Audio will be capable of sending the DVD-Audio over the HDMI link.

I think I've read every post in this thread, and I don't recall anything about this topic, but for me it's one of the more compelling reasons to get an HDMI equipped player, even somewhat more compelling than the 1080i upsampling. And even more compelling if you have a separate SACD player that's already gobbled up the multichannel analog audio inputs on your receiver or pre-pro.

Has anyone output DVD-A via HDMI on this player? Does Panasonic state that it will?

Rich,

Yes, Panasonic has stated DVD-A will output via HDMI to an appropriate receiver capable of utiling the DVD-A stream (Panasonic SA-XR70, for example).

Paul

Does Macroblocking happen with this player connected with a component cable? It seems like every movie I watch lately has horrible macroblocking via hdmi-dvi. I don't have a component cable that is why I ask. I really can't take the macroblocking anymore. I tried every setting but it is just horrible on my Samsung txp-3071 display. I'm using the 540 firmware. Thanks

Sorry to hear that's a problem with the display. I have not seen any macroblock problems with the S97 component 480i output.

Paul

Can people post their settings for the S97? I thought I saw them b4, but this thread is way too long and I can't seem to find it.

Check the first post of the thread for my settings.

Paul

I have a S97 attached via HDMI->DVI cable (at NTSC480p/PAL576p) to a DLP (matterhorn chip 1024x576) front projector.

Can anyone please tell me what TV Type I should set in the S97 config?
Also how should i set the 'HDMI RGB Range' setting, standard or enhanched?

Thanks a lot in advance.

See section "Guide to S97 TV Type setting" near the bottom of the first post of this thread.

The RGB setting of "Enhanced" should have better black level results.

Paul

Paul thanks for you reply, I did read the TV Type setting section in the first post but I'm still not sure what the best setting for a DLP front-projector is.

Anyone here who has the S97 connected to a DLP, what setting do you use?

tux 99,

I used the Projection TV setting. The reason I chose it was that it was the only choice which displayed the "drop shadow" behind the THX logo in the THX optimizer. All other settings didn't do that. Part of the reason I bought the player was that I was looking for one that could do that very thing. In the THX optimizer descriptions it says that some DVD players cannot display the shadow and since I had a cheapo player that couldn't I was looking for that very thing.

For what its worth my TV is the PT60DL54 and I set it up with the Topp Robertson recommended settings and used AVIA to fine tune it a bit. I have found very little macroblocking issues, now with the 540 firmware, then I did when it had the 528 out of the box.

Hello everyone. I'm very satisfied with the S97S. But I'm planning to upgrade my Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-A04 for a Plextor PlexWriter PX-716A DVD Burner wich can burn dual layer disc. Has anyone knows if the S97S can play this new recordable media? Any help will be appreciated.

Yes it can.

Paul/tux99,

If you have the S97 connected to a DVI display, you must have the RGB Black level range set to Standard, or blacks will be crushed.

Frank

jrock65,

You need to calibrate your setup yourself. Everyone's settings will be different with different displays. Using someone else's calibrates settings may be totally wrong for you.

On my Sanyo PVL-Z2 1280x720 LCD front projector, I use:

Setup->Video->TV Aspect: 16:9
Setup->Video->TV Type: LCD TV / Projector (choose your TV type)
Setup->Video->Still Mode: Frame
Setup->HDMI->RGB Range: Standard (since I have a DVI display)
Setup->Others->FL Dimmer: Auto

Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: Contrast -1
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: Brightness +1
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: Sharpness 0
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: Color 0
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: Gamma 0
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: Depth Enh. +1 (for poorly mastered/highly compressed DVDs)
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: MPEG DNR 0
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Picture Mode-> User->Picture Adjustiment: 3D DNR +1 (for poorly mastered/highly compressed DVDs)

Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Video Output Mode: 720p (since that is the native resolution of my display)
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Transfer Mode: Auto1
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->HDMI Color Space: RGB (because I have a DVI display) (you should likely use YCbCr 4:4:4 if you have an HDMI display and this setting is available)

Display->Other Settings->Audio Menu-> Bitstream out for DTS

Display->Other Settings->Display Menu-> 4:3 Aspect Ratio: Auto (this will let the player automatically adjust the picture aspect ratio correctly for 16:9 and 4:3 material)
Display->Other Settings->Display Menu->GUI Brightness: 0

Setup->Video->Black Level Control: Darker

You should also read the first post of this thread for all the info you need. Paul has his settings posted there as well.

If anyone has experienced lip sync problems on their DVD players, please help us all by visiting the thread listed below and contributing your information.
LIP SYNC PROBLEM DATA COLLECTION (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=537705)

Thank you for taking the time to contribute to this project. :)

Cable Q: HDMI-DVI

Guys:

Considering these HDMI-DVI cables for my setup. Non-monster, therefore wondering if anyone used any of these and how were their impressions. Two links:

- Link 1 (http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5771634313&fromMakeTrack=true)
- Link 2 (http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5771491425&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)

Both on eBay. Your input shall be appreciated!

Edit: Seems that I cannot put the links. Just check these item Numbers: 5771634313 and 5771491425

Can someone tell me if S97 will play a PAL disk with region code set to 0
or 1? S77 will not, and I'm wondering if S97 does the same or it has
something to do with S77 being a North American release vs worldwide
release.

This is on the HDMI output at 1080i.

Samsung HD-841 plays the same disk upconverted on the DVI output, but
doesn't convert PAL->NTSC on the svideo port.

I kind of expected the S77 would not play disks from other regions, but
I thought it would behave like the Sammy and convert PAL to 720p/1080i
as long as the region code was compatible.

Hello,

From the compatiblity section of the first post:

PAL: Yes, if region free (according to Rich4av). Ensure the display is capable of accepting 50Hz.

Not a lot of info, but maybe it will help.

Paul

Last night I had the opportunity to compare HDTV to the DVD output from my S97. ABC showed Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and I have the DVD of this movie. The DVD was formatted for a 2.35 ratio and the HDTV version was 1.85, so it made the comparison a little bit challenging. But I was very pleased with the results from the S97. I could see very little difference in detail and I liked the color I was able to achieve with the S97 compared to that of the HDTV broadcast.

My display is a Sanyo Z3 LCD projector, which is 720p. I was using 480i via component from the S97, as my extensive testing has determined that this results in the best PQ from the S97 on my display. (the scaler and deinterlacer on the Z3 seem to be superior to that of the S97) The HDTV signal was via cable through a SA8300HD DVR connected by both HDMI and component. (I preferred the component output from the cable box. I found the HDMI output to appear noisy verses the component output.)

Anyway, just another happy S97 user despite the fact that up-sampling and HDMI were my primary reason for purchasing this player and I am very happy using neither.

Tom

What improvements will the S77 offer over the S97? Or will the S77 be lacking in features, functionality and quality when compared to the S97? Silly question I suppose; assuming the S77 to be as capable (or more capable) than the S97, why would Panasonic choose a smaller number (77 vs 97)?

Based on the manuals, here are the differences:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=537414

It appears that while there are some slight differences in build/specs and documented features -- the core of the player seems to about the same. I haven't seen anything in the initial reviews that would lead me to think the S77 is a radically new/improved player.

Thoughts?

Paul

I would love to have someone compare the two players side by side to see if there is any difference in the picture quality with each firmware. I hope Kris will review this player for Secrets.

Hope you guys can help me out but how does the panny 97s compare to the marantz dv6500?I'm trying to decide.It would be used via component only.thanks

Hello all, newbie on the forum and I was hoping for some help with this following issue. I just setup my new home theatre...

TV -> Samsung HLP5663W
DVD -> Panasonic S97S
Using a Monster HDMI cable between the two.

I purchased the Panasonic S97S because of all the rave reviews I've read for it online as an excellent upconverting dvd player and because I wanted to bring my dvd collection close to HD rez.

So here's my problem. I notice that using 720p output from the player introduces a lot of noise and blocky artifacts (not sure if that's macroblocking). I was stunned to then see when I switched to 480p the picture quality was much better; alot less noise and picture artifacts. (NOTE: my Sammy upconverts all incoming signals to 720p, so either way I'm seeing a 720p signal, its just a matter of whether the tv or dvd do the upconversion).

Thus it seems my sammy is doing a BETTER job upconverting the signal than the panny, which has me totally baffled at this point as I thought converting the signal from the source (the panny dvd player) would equals better PQ and I've heard nothing but good news about thid dvd player. Although I think the 480p output from my dvd player looks very good, I'd like to use the output of the 720p, as that's the main reason I purchased this player in the first place and I wanna see what everyone's been raving about :D

So I'm wandering if anyone knows why this is? I've been reading through this thread and it seems I'm not the only one experiencing this issue with the panny, but I haven't seen someone post a tangable solution. I even dropped by Panasonic head office for the 85E540 firmware upgrade and the noise/blocky articfact is evident.

Macroblock enhance is display, material, and calibration dependent.

Upconversion is not a blanket cure or a blanket guarantee of a better picture.

Basically, if the displays scaler does a mediocre job of upconverting 480i/p to the display's native resolution then upconverting at the player may do a better job with lessening artifacts. If the display does a superlative job with upconverting 480i/p to the native resolution then upconverting at the player will be of limited or no benefit.

Have a look at the first post of this thread at the section "Macroblock Survival Guide".

There is no solution to the "macroblock enhance" issue as such -- just some firmware updates, and some display tuning suggestions which can help lessen the more obvious of the enhanced macroblocks.

Paul

Can someone please tell me where I might purchase the S97 or the S77. I understand that the S77 is still new but I can't find either one anywhere. I'm on hold with Panasonic right now (20 min. so far) :(

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Macroblock enhance is display, material, and calibration dependent.

Upconversion is not a blanket cure or a blanket guarantee of a better picture.

Basically, if the displays scaler does a mediocre job of upconverting 480i/p to the display's native resolution then upconverting at the player may do a better job with lessening artifacts. If the display does a superlative job with upconverting 480i/p to the native resolution then upconverting at the player will be of limited or no benefit.

Have a look at the first post of this thread at the section "Macroblock Survival Guide".

There is no solution to the "macroblock enhance" issue as such -- just some firmware updates, and some display tuning suggestions which can help lessen the more obvious of the enhanced macroblocks.

Paul

First of all thanks for the quick reply Paul.

Hmmm... interesting. I do have a green push problem (green evident everywhere on my greys/black in THX optimizer brightness test) with my Samsung and a tech will be coming by to fix it, so I'm wondering if that may lesson the macroblock effect, at least I do hope so. And it does appear that my tv does a very good job at upconverting the 480p signal.

I'm gonna take a look at the survival guide and see what it does for me.

can't help you there dropzone7, its available here in Toronto from Bestbuy and Futureshop, but not sure where to get it in the states, alot of US retailers I've seen either don't carry it or don't have stock.

Originally posted by neotheone
can't help you there dropzone7, its available here in Toronto from Bestbuy and Futureshop, but not sure where to get it in the states, alot of US retailers I've seen either don't carry it or don't have stock.

Thanks. I just got off the phone with Panasonic after a 25 minute hold time. They tell me that the player is on backorder until the 16th of this month at which time they expect to ship some stock. They will then get more units on the 23rd and at month end. I'm sure most of those are spoken for by distributors and dealers with customer orders so who knows when I might find one. :(

Dropzone, did you check the Tweeter locations in Charlotte?

Paul

dropzone7 -

I just ordered an S77 from ecost.com In stock, best price I could find and free shipping. Bad return policy though. Onecall and Vanns have them as well for a little more $$.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Dropzone, did you check the Tweeter locations in Charlotte?

Paul

No, I just checked their website which is nothing special really. I have not called them yet because frankly I don't really like those guys. (A little too much attitude for me) but if they stock it then that's cool. I will give them a shot. Thanks.

Originally posted by Gator123
dropzone7 -

I just ordered an S77 from ecost.com In stock, best price I could find and free shipping. Bad return policy though. Onecall and Vanns have them as well for a little more $$.

Thanks Gator, I will give that a shot as well. I dont' mind ordering online as long as I can get my money back if things go bad. Thanks.

Originally posted by tacos
Since switching to 720p I haven't noticed any jittering with the playback. It only does it when I use 1080i. I don't see much difference in the 2 anyway so I will be happy using 720p as long as their is no jitter. I love this player even though it has that problem (for me) in 1080i. If someone buys that s77 and needs the hdmi cable that comes with the s97 send me an email. I'll put it on ya cheap as I have no use for it. I have to use hdmi-dvi cable. thanks

I have this problem both at 720p and 1080i. When it happens the disk is unwatchable. The playback pauses (for a few msec up to 1sec) and restarts every few seconds. The weird part is that it only happens towards the end of a disc, so at first I thought that it had to do with the player getting hot after about 1.5hrs. The good news is that so far it has only happened on homemade DVD+Rs, which are not supported officialy by the S97. It hasn't happened yet with original DVDs. I have not used any DVD-Rs yet as my burner does not support . I will be upgrading my burner to one that supports DVD-R and try that as well.

Constp, the problem you are having is with your burned DVD's. Try a different blank or try burning at a slower speed. You might want to try to
update the firmware on your burner. This has worked for some since newer firmware supports more media types. I have experienced this problem with many players and doing this usually works. My 97S will play all my burned + disks.

I had similar issues with X-copy platinum made DVD-Rs.
I started using the popular freeware everyone talks about and have had no issues at all.
Actually like the software better too.

I've never seen this stutter problem with the S97, commercial or burned.

Paul

Paul, and others it depends on your burner and the type of discs you use.
The 97S is very good at playing all types of commercial or burned disks. Some older burners and discs could cause a problem. I have had stuttering on only a few old disks. The solution is to buy quality disks, record at slow speeds, and upgrade the firmware of the burner. If the disk will not play on the 97, I am sure there will also be problems with other players.

I am trying to create a MPEG4 CD-R that is readable by the S97. Not sure which codec and software to use. I have seen other places that Divx, Xvid etc are not working.

Some of the sources are Hi8 Video tapes (can be captured in various formats) and AVI files created with ATI TV Woder

Please let me know which codec (fourcc) and wich convertion software to use.

Thanks in advance,

Jim

Originally posted by rwestley
Paul, and others it depends on your burner and the type of discs you use.
The 97S is very good at playing all types of commercial or burned disks. Some older burners and discs could cause a problem. I have had stuttering on only a few old disks. The solution is to buy quality disks, record at slow speeds, and upgrade the firmware of the burner. If the disk will not play on the 97, I am sure there will also be problems with other players.

rwestley,

I have the latest firmware installed in the burner and burn everything at 4x. Nevertheless, I bought an LG4163 burner today and re-burned one of the movies that was giving me problems (on a DVD+R) onto a DVD-R and, voila, no more stuttering. I'm very happy that my S97 wasn't the problem.

Constp, I am glad you solved your problem. I bet if you tried a different brand of disks with the original burner it might work. As you discovered many of the newer burners do a much better job and the disks work with more DVD players. I have tried both the Lite-On and NEC and they both work great with DVD+ and the 97S. The only problem I have had is when I try to burn the disks at too high a speed. Use 4X and a good brand of
blank disks and your problems should be solved.

Does the S97 (or S77, for that matter) output 480i over the HDMI port?

Originally posted by netarc
Does the S97 (or S77, for that matter) output 480i over the HDMI port?

No it doesn't. Just the Sony does 480i over HDMI

Originally posted by August West
I have this loud popping as well (Mitsu DLP) sometimes when the main menu for the DVD first comes on the screen. I took the S97 to the Mitsu store and had the same thing happen on the set in the store so I assume this is just a reality of HDMI with at least some sets and not a defect per se. For me this is OK as it only happens once when the DVD is put in. Interesting that this happened with the Sony. This would further indicate that at least some players with some TV's just do this for some reason.

Just purchased S97, upgraded to 540 firmware, connected up to my Mitsubishi WD-52525 DLP HDTV and i too hear this popping sound in similar circumstances described.

I thought maybe i'll do better by replacing the HDMI cable that came with the S97 unit, so got the Monster Cable's HDMI400 2 meter cable, tried it, and no joy, still can hear the popping sounds. Fiddled with various S97 audio setup, and result is the same.

I'm not sure if the problem lies in S97, WD-52525 or combination, but seeing that S97 connected up other HDTVs also produce these popping sounds and to some HDTVs it doens't, leads me to believe, as the earlier post points out, with S97 with *some* HDTVs causes this problem for *some* reason.

The popping sounds aren't that bothersome since it appears to only happen in,

0. Stopping playback
1. Starting playback

If it gets too annoying i may end up running separate cable for audio to my HDTV, but since i still have optical to my receiver which i use that mostly with DVDs, i should be okay with using HDMI just for Video. But then again, using HDMI as single cable for both audio and video is reason why i decided to get HDTV with HDMI instead of DVI connector.

Good thing i don't need to keep that $119 HDMI cable from Monster Cable. Worth a shot experiment though.

I scoured this thread and other threads for other S97 user feedback on this popping sounds over HDMI audio, so i'm putting this question out here. What are other folks experience with using audio over HDMI on S97 with other HDTV's, any popping sounds heard during controlling DVD playback, i.e. stopping, starting, etc.

Regardless, my S97 is a keeper, simply AWESOME unit, picture quality with lots of knobs to fine tune the video to your likings.

Thanks in advance.

I heard a lot pop noise with HDMI players on a Sharp LC26GD6U -- both with the Sony DVP-NS975V and the Panasonic DVD-S97. The "pop" in this case sounded like a loud "snap" or "crack". Loud enough to be startling. No "pop" issue with either player with Panasonic TC-22LH1.

Paul

Sorry if this has been covered, but my search for "tray" only brought up Sony comparisons.....

Has anyone experienced problems with the Pannys tray locking up in the OPEN position? I have been experiencing lockup problems, and the only way I have been able to get it to close is to randomly (I say randomly because I haven't found a set pattern yet) push open/close/play/power/....etc, pushing the tray, etc... until it "catches" and closes on it's own.

Any ideas?

No reported tray locking problems with the S97, that I recall.

Paul

Originally posted by gixxer69
Just purchased S97, upgraded to 540 firmware, connected up to my Mitsubishi WD-52525 DLP HDTV and i too hear this popping sound in similar circumstances described.
.

I posted this a number of times some time ago until I figured that posting it any more would be obnoxious (I see you quoted one of my original posts). Since you bring it up though....

I never have figured out what exactly is going on with the S97 / Mitsu / HDMI popping. I still have it, as a matter of fact, so I use component and not HDMI (somewhat defeating one of the main reasons I bought the S97 but it is what it is. At least I can output 480p).

The only update I can give you on my earlier posts is that I had the chassis replaced on the Mitsu, which is the part that has all of the I/O and firmware, more or less everything important except the light engine and screen. This did not fix the problem which would lead me to believe the issue is not a defect in the Mitsu but rather with the S97 or perhaps just a compatibility issue between the S97 and the Mitsu.

What firmware are you running? I am running firmware .04 on the Mitsu and 528 on the S97. I've been kicking around installing the 540 on the S97 and the .05 on the Mitsu to see if that would help.

Another thought I had was that perhaps running HDMI from the S97 to a receiver and then to the TV might help but I do not (yet) have an HDMI switching receiver. Have you tried this?

For those in the SF Bay Area looking for the S97, Magnolia stores still have them in stock for $279.98 plus tax. For those out of the area you may want to give them a call if they are able to ship them out.

magnoliaavdotcom

Just bought one today.

Originally posted by August West
I never have figured out what exactly is going on with the S97 / Mitsu / HDMI popping. I still have it, as a matter of fact, so I use component and not HDMI (somewhat defeating one of the main reasons I bought the S97 but it is what it is. At least I can output 480p).

What firmware are you running? I am running firmware .04 on the Mitsu and 528 on the S97. I've been kicking around installing the 540 on the S97 and the .05 on the Mitsu to see if that would help.

Another thought I had was that perhaps running HDMI from the S97 to a receiver and then to the TV might help but I do not (yet) have an HDMI switching receiver. Have you tried this?

I'm thinking i'll run only the video over HDMI and run audio over separate analog cable. Have you tried this approach so that you can still benefit from better video over HDMI? S97 does allow you to disable audio over HDMI. Maybe you've tried this and you were still getting the popping sounds. What say you on this?

My Mitsubishi WD-52525 is running 4.01 firmware, and i have received 4.05 update. Just haven't applied it yet. I'll do that tonight.

I've upgraded my S97 to 540 firmware.

Unfortunately my receiver do not have any digital inputs other than digital audio inputs over coaxial and optical.

So which Mitsubishi DLP HDTV do you have?

-gshin

Originally posted by gixxer69
I'm thinking i'll run only the video over HDMI and run audio over separate analog cable. Have you tried this approach so that you can still benefit from better video over HDMI? S97 does allow you to disable audio over HDMI. Maybe you've tried this and you were still getting the popping sounds. What say you on this?

My Mitsubishi WD-52525 is running 4.01 firmware, and i have received 4.05 update. Just haven't applied it yet. I'll do that tonight.

I've upgraded my S97 to 540 firmware.

Unfortunately my receiver do not have any digital inputs other than digital audio inputs over coaxial and optical.

So which Mitsubishi DLP HDTV do you have?

-gshin

I tried running the audio via RCA cables and the video via HDMI but could not get this to work. I think that the Mitsu does not look for other audio inputs when the HDMI cable is connected, even if the S97 does not have the audio HDMI on. If you find a way to make this work let me know as this would be great.

My Mitsu is a 52725.

Originally posted by August West
I tried running the audio via RCA cables and the video via HDMI but could not get this to work. I think that the Mitsu does not look for other audio inputs when the HDMI cable is connected, even if the S97 does not have the audio HDMI on. If you find a way to make this work let me know as this would be great.

My Mitsu is a 52725.

Are you kidding? 52725 won't let you cable audio separately from HDMI? That's crazy...

Then i realized i should look at the manual.

Yike. This is what the manual states about the analog audio connectors just on top of HDMI connector,

"Unlike HDMI, DVI does not carry audio information on the same cable. Use these analog stereo audio input when using the HDMI input with a device that outputs DVI instead of HDMI".

So as you pointed out, if 52525/52725 is connected with HDMI and not via DVI-HDMI adapter (which probably has no audio pins at the HDMI connector side of the adapter that is what's telling the TV to go ahead and use the DVI Analog Audio connectors; other than that the DVI-HDMI adapter should give the exact same appearance as straight HDMI cabling) then it must know internally to not use these DVI Analog Audio signals. I don't know why it needs to be that way, maybe video/audio sync issue or something, but that's lame.

If i can't get DVI Analog Audio to work with HDMI cabling then that's one another reason to just leave with the popping sounds during DVD playback control scenarios, which isn't all that bad, since i really want the 720p playback to my 52525 unit.

Don't you also want 720p playback to your 52725 unit? Even though our units do the upscaling to 720p, i do see some improvement if the TV doesn't need to do extra work to do the upscaling and if 720p comes straight from S97.

Also there's advantage of HDMI over component cabling, you probably are aware, which is, it's non-compressed pure digital signal, so no extra overhead of going through Digital-to-Analog conversion at the S97, then back to digital at the TV side.

I thought the popping sounds weren't bothering you at all.

What's your experience so far, and what was driving you nuts that led you to jump to component and stick with 480p?

Have you disabled HDMI audio on the S97? It might trick the TV to think it is a DVI->HDMI connection.

Anybody know where I can actually find one of these in stock? It seems like they're on backorder everywhere. What gives? Thanks.

No, but if you're in a hurry--and need pretty much the same player--you should check out the S77 which was just released for sale. I got mine from eCost, although others have ordered it from Vanns.

From my research, Digital Foto has a better price (after including tax & shipping) on the S77, and a better seller rating, than either Vann's or eCost.

Originally posted by gixxer69


Don't you also want 720p playback to your 52725 unit? Even though our units do the upscaling to 720p, i do see some improvement if the TV doesn't need to do extra work to do the upscaling and if 720p comes straight from S97.

Also there's advantage of HDMI over component cabling, you probably are aware, which is, it's non-compressed pure digital signal, so no extra overhead of going through Digital-to-Analog conversion at the S97, then back to digital at the TV side.

I thought the popping sounds weren't bothering you at all.

What's your experience so far, and what was driving you nuts that led you to jump to component and stick with 480p?

I have not noticed a significant difference between the 480p and 720 into the Mitsu and am happy with 480p. I'm aware of the all digital HDMI benefits (although there are some people who claim better picture with component). My problem is that I have two types of popping. The first is the one you are familiar with (DVD menu screens, etc.) The second is a crackling noise during playback that I only get via HDMI. Replacing the Mitsu chassis did not fix this so this would imply its the S97. However, I brought hte S97 into the store and hooked it up to a Mitsu in the store and it was fine. Hmmm. So, I use component at 480p and am happy enough for now. This would bother me more except that I think that I'll be putting this DVD player in another room on a standard def TV sooner rather than later where non-use of HDMI will not be an issue. I could always return the DVD player to One Call (if it is still under warranty) but this is an internet store, could be a hassle, etc. I may upgrade to 540 just in case this is caused by corrupted firmware which I could fix by flashing a new version. I'm being waiting until the verdict is in on 540 (it seems most are pleased but some report a loss of definition).

Originally posted by August West
I'm being waiting until the verdict is in on 540 (it seems most are pleased but some report a loss of definition).
I am still waiting because of the alleged loss of definition also. Maybe somebody can retort this issue.

Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
I am still waiting because of the alleged loss of definition also. Maybe somebody can retort this issue.

There is quite a bit of discussion on the S97 firmware thread on this. If you have not checked there you may want to.