Originally posted by August West
The second is a crackling noise during playback that I only get via HDMI. Replacing the Mitsu chassis did not fix this so this would imply its the S97. However, I brought the S97 into the store and hooked it up to a Mitsu in the store and it was fine.

After you mentioned that "crackling" noise during playback i went back and sure enough i have that with my setup as well, with WD-52525 and S97. Interesting. But it's not very noticeable and probably why i didn't notice at first, only after you mentioned, i paid attention for that and i can hear them now.

I may end up using the all digital output through optical cable to my receiver from S97 more if this "popping" and "crackling" things gets on my nerve.

So in your earlier comment you stated,

"I took the S97 to the Mitsu store and had the same thing happen on the set in the store so I assume this is just a reality of HDMI with at least some sets and not a defect per se."

Are you or are you not able to reproduce this problem with other 52725 (or 52525 or 52825) Mitsubishi sets and your S97 in the store?

I'm leaning toward the problem with this TV interaction with S97, and nothing specific only to the TV or S97.

I haven't yet upgraded to 4.05 firmware on the HDTV, so interesting to see what happens after that update.

Originally posted by CheapB
Have you disabled HDMI audio on the S97? It might trick the TV to think it is a DVI->HDMI connection.

That would be great only if this WD-52525/52725 Mitsubishi HDV had in its setup to enable analog audio inputs while still using HDMI cabling. These analog audio connectors appear to be used only as DVI Analog Audio, when going from DVI-HDMI adapter connection. And the TV if detects straight HDMI connection then it does not bother to give option to override audio in HDMI for analog audio inputs. Interesting.

Has anyone gone over what the S97's capabilities are with respect to DVD-A? A few questions that come to mind are as follows:

1) Does the unit have bass management? If the speakers are set to small does it route all bass below 100 Hz (the player's crossover point) to the subwoofer?

2) Does the delay feature actually work for DVD-A of is it only effective for DD and DTS?

3) In general, how does everyone feel about this player's sound quality with respect to DVD-A? Is it comparable to other low priced players (e.g. Pioneer universal players)?

Originally posted by gixxer69
Are you or are you not able to reproduce this problem with other 52725 (or 52525 or 52825) Mitsubishi sets and your S97 in the store?

I'm leaning toward the problem with this TV interaction with S97, and nothing specific only to the TV or S97.

I haven't yet upgraded to 4.05 firmware on the HDTV, so interesting to see what happens after that update.

The one DLP I hooked it up to in the store (I think it was a 52525 which for this purpose should be identical to my 52725) did not produce the crackling noise but DID have the popping noise issue with DVD menu screens. Again, this confused me as I assumed it was a defective DVD player. I suppose that it is possible that I just could not hear it with the ambient noise in the store, but this would mean the noise was very faint vs. the noise I have at home which is quite audible even with moderate ambient noise.

Now I am leaning towards what you mentioned, the theory that there is some compatibility issue between the S97 and the Mitsu and not a defect in either per se. This is a big part of the reason I have not returned the S97.

Also, the crackling you mention is minor, mine is pretty clearly audible. One difference we have is the 528 and .04 vs. 540 and .01. All this discussion just might get me to put in the 540 to see what it does.

Let me know if your 0.05 upgrade does anything. As far as I know that upgrade does not specifically deal with this issue. My understanding is that it deals with an audio switching issue with some A/V receivers.

The S97 has been upped to a 91 on Secrets... test as result of the firmware updates. Read about it here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=6&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0#PanasonicDVD-S97%20(HDMI)

Paul

Another great review from Kris. I would hope that he gets a chance to compare the 97 to the 77.

Wouldn't the results basically be the same, as the guts are all the same? I'd think so anyway.

The results would problably be close. I wonder if there is any difference in the firmware. Since the 97 has different results with different firmware it seems that this is a valid question.

Originally posted by jayrader
Wouldn't the results basically be the same, as the guts are all the same? I'd think so anyway.

Do we really know the guts all the same? Yeah, folks have looked and told us that the major IC's and the general board layout are the same, but do we know for a FACT that there are no minor circuit changes that affect how signals are routed to/through the Faroudja chip, for example? It would be intriguing indeed if one of the reasons for introducing the S77 (besides dropping the price) was that minor circuit changes were needed around the Faroudja chip to better cope with macroblocking, etc.

Or it could be wishful thinking on my part.

The fact is (at this point) we don't know. Comparing service manuals may provide some clues. Photographs of the circuit boards may provide further clues. Testing may reveal even more clues.

Went to Fry's this weekend and did not see the S77.

Paul

Paul, testing is the best way to go. Hope one shows up in your area so you can compare the units. It seems that it isnot available in many stores. The online retailers seem to be the ones that have the 77s in stock.

It would be interesting to find out if the S77 Faroudja chip has a different revision number. After about a year chip manufacturers usually make small changes when moving to a smaller process. I'm assuming they made a move from 180nm to maybe 150nm to increase yields per wafer.

Overall, I'm very happy with my S97; however, I was wondering what are the rest of S97 owners doing with their non-anamorphic DVD's. While the player properly displays the disc the image is not very good. I'm just happy I only have a few non-anamorphic DVD's. It's too bad the zoom quality on this player isn't a little better than this. In any event, I'm happy I kept my Zenith 318 to play PAL discs (PAL to NTSC conversion) and non-anamorphic DVD's. For 95% of what I actually watch it's S97 all the way.

AkaStp,

The S97 was actually bought from OneCall. The Sony DVP-NS975V was bought from Ultimate. My local Ultimate did eventually stock the S97 though it was some weeks later. Unfortunately, Ultimate has pulled out of Texas and has sold off all of the stores to the Ultimate Acquisition Partners for liquidation. These acquired stores are in rapid decline -- wasn't even offered a bottle of water! ;)

Any S77 that is acquired would have to have return privileges as I think the liklihood of both players performing identically (PQ-wise) is very high.

Paul

An update:

My Panasonic-supplied S97 HDMI cable finally gave up the ghost. Apparantly all the switching out between the Sony and Panasonic caused a break somewhere. I can manipulate the cable to get a picture but it will not hold. One downside to sealed, molded plugs.

In any event, I purchased an inexpensive ~$20 6' HDMI cable at Fry's. Decent enough build and it works fine. They're not to be found next to the Monsters in the usual A/V cable section or even in the computer cable section. These were located in the seldom visited section for cables near the outdoor TV antenna section. I find this placement curious.

Paul

Pan DVD-S97 vs. Pioneer DV-59AVi

This comparison was thru HDMI ONLY 720p into an IF7210. No component; no audio. The 7210 was set to 50 Bright and 50 Cont.

I did NOT use AVIA or DE. Rather, I used Bob Pariseau's recommended settings for the Pioneer, and Paul Bigelow's recommended settings for the Panasonic, except Bright +2 and Cont. -1 as recommened by Kris in his Secrets review.

Note: My S97 has an April 2005 build date w/Firmware 360.

Used Moulin Rouge synced 15 seconds apart to compare scenes. To take care of the easy part, the layer change was much faster on the S97.

The picture quality was close to identical through the entire film. The skin tones were identical. The color saturation was identical. The level of detail in black was identical. There were a few instances when I saw jaggies from the Pioneer, but you had to look hard, and there weren't that many. Either the IF7210 is not subject to MBing OR the S97 has no MBing problem w/Firmware 360, whatever that is.

I went nuts trying to find some difference between the two. Certainly, if one were viewing a film casually, none would be seen.

This is NOT a knock on the DV-59AVi. It has features the S97 does not: SACD; 480i over HDMI; I-Link out. And I did no comparison of DVD-A sound quality.

Excellent report Robert!

It would be very interesting if the 360 firmware and/or later build (April 2005!) removed the "macroblock enhance" issue.

Paul

Is there an "85E" in front of the 360? Or some other letters/numbers? 360 is what others are reporting in the S77, right?

Yes there is 85E before 360. No, S77 has 357.

I has the IF7200 before the IF7210. I used at least two players subject to MBing on it: the Denon 1910, and the Pan S97 w/the original firmware. I saw no MBing at all. My suspicion is that the IF7210 is also a non MBing display. That, of course, does NOT mean the 360 hasn't completely cured the MBing problem. I just have no way of knowing.

If Pan is supposedly dropping the S97, what is it doing still building them in April?

Well....on their website and press release for the S77, they said the S97 would continue alongside the S77. There was a lot of speculation in the forums here that the S77 was going to replace the S97 based on what one guy was told at a trade show in the Panasonic booth. I think this comment spread until people just started "believing" it. I still don't believe the S97 is being discontinued (as evidenced by this new S97 build with mysteriously new firmware that is even newer than the one in the S77).

Bigfoot/Sasquatch is still in the woods you know (that's what I've been told)...LOL. Oh, and there's that guy that can walk on water too...

But doesn't it strike you as peculiar that they'd have two, nearly identical models out at the same time? As near as I can tell, the primary difference between the two is the S97's ability to output PAL... something unlikely to impact your avg, mainstream, North American consumer (but which is important to many of us, certainly). It just seems a peculiar move.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
I did NOT use AVIA or DE. Rather, I used Bob Pariseau's recommended settings for the Pioneer, and Paul Bigelow's recommended settings for the Panasonic, except Bright +2 and Cont. -1 as recommened by Kris in his Secrets review.
I just received an S77, and set it up via DVE. I also used Paul's recommended settings for the S97. I found that with brightness at +1, the blacker-than-black strip was very faint, visible but fainter than on my previous player. I thought it a tad odd, but brushed it aside with the notion that perhaps one should bring the brightness of the player up only to the point where the strip is visible and no more (I then fine-tuned with my monitor's settings, which stayed almost exactly as they were with my previous DVD player). Does this sound accurate, or should I experiment more with the brightness setting? Does anyone else find +2 to be better?

As for contrast, I'm less certain. I know that I have the contrast on my monitor set much lower than tends to be the usual for my model (Panny 53x54 with picture/contrast at 14; brightness at 35). Is there a good video reference on DVE that I could check to see whether moving the player's contrast down a click to -1 would be preferable?

Rich,

Actually, the two players have different feature sets. The S77 does not do MPEG4 or Dolby Digital (license for every player shipped with this). The S97 is positioned as a little more high-end. (IMHO)

As far as the BTB settings go, what you should do to be correct is to turn brightness up until you can see the outermost (BTB) bar using DVE, then back it down until it is equal to the background (just to where you can not distinguish it). This is a common misconception about how you should set brightness. Many people leave it where the outermost DVE black bar is still visible...which results in your brightness setting one notch too high/bright. This starts people setting their contrast down some to deal with whites that are then too "hot". I use brightness +1 (or 0, I am wavering) , contrast -1 with my S97 and my Z2 PJ (all of my brightness/contrast settings on my Z2 are flat at 0).

I wish they would go into a little more detail about how to set brightness for BTB on the DVE disc...there would be less confusion (and it is confusing if you only know what you have heard in the narration on the disc).

I would also think that the model number is checked, before updating the firmware...

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
Yes there is 85E before 360. No, S77 has 357.
S77 has firmware 349 but it is different controller board revision.

L087 86B349
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=537414

Originally posted by LiteUp!
As far as the BTB settings go, what you should do to be correct is to turn brightness up until you can see the outermost (BTB) bar using DVE, then back it down until it is equal to the background (just to where you can not distinguish it). This is a common misconception about how you should set brightness. Many people leave it where the outermost DVE black bar is still visible...which results in your brightness setting one notch too high/bright. This starts people setting their contrast down some to deal with whites that are then too "hot". I use brightness +1 (or 0, I am wavering) , contrast -1 with my S97 and my Z2 PJ (all of my brightness/contrast settings on my Z2 are flat at 0).
This is my first DVD player with picture setting adjustments, so I'm a bit unsure how to calibrate the entire "calibratible" chain (that is, the player and the monitor). I've set the player's brightness to +1, which just barely reveals the b-t-b strip, and then I back off the brightness on my monitor until the b-t-b strip disappears into the background. I actually like it backed off just a tad more (via the monitor), though I know I'm losing a bit of shadow detail (is this what's known as "crushing black"?).

It seems, then, that the +1 setting is most accurate given that this is the lowest setting that reveals the b-t-b strip on my monitor. On the other hand, I wonder if changing the brightness setting on my monitor would affect the output settings of the player? For example, if I lowered the brightness setting on my monitor, could that be offset by a higher brightness level on the player? And vice-versa? Does Kris' monitor/projector have a lower "native" brightness setting than mine, thus requiring that he set the player's brightness to +2 in order to compensate?

It's interesting that you also have your contrast setting at -1, and I have the same questions regarding monitor/player calibration and interaction. My monitor's contrast setting is very low compared to others on this forum with the same model. It seems perfect with DVDs, but a tad low for HD-TV. Perhaps lowering the contrast on the player, and then compensating by raising the contrast on the monitor, would essentially arrive at much the same contrast levels for DVD, and raise them to more appropriate levels for HDTV?

IMPORTANT CORRECTION:

My Full Firmware # is 86H360. I incorrectly said it was 85E.

From the S77 thread, the Full Firmware # is 86B349.

I am very confused.

Aha! This means new hardware in there somewhere!

86B349 is the system firmware revision number for the S77 (all built in March 2005 so far).
85E528, 85E536, 85E540 are the various system firmware revision number for the S97 (for anything prior to an April 2005 build date).
86H360 is the system firmware revision number for the S97 (April 2005 build date).

Panasonic's firmware/system revision numbering scheme is as follows (from their service documentation):

L087 86B349

"L087" = L is the front panel controller hardware model number, 087 is the front panel controller firmware release number

"86B349" = 86 is the system controller generation, B is the system controller hardware model number, 349 is the system controller firmware release number

The jump from "E" to "H" in the S97 firmware revision number indicates there has been a hardware change. This explains the lesser 360 number after it, which means there is a new branch of code for this new S97 hardware. Now......what has changed??? We need someone to take some really good internal pictures of the April 2005 S97 and the S77. I suspect there is a new "secret" revision of FL2310. There is apparently a new system controller board as well....hence the graduation from "85" in the original S97 to "86" in the S77/April 2005 S97.

Oh boy...

Here we go again. Now to find an April build.

Paul

Im just starting to learn about Upconverting DVD players. From what I have read it sounds as if this is the best DVD player for an HDTV for your money.

I read somewhere that its best suited to Plasmas and DLPs. Is this true?

I have a Toshiba 57HDX82 RPTV and the HD picture is outstanding. Would this DVD player work well for my TV.

Thanks

Hello wtped,

The only report in this thread with this player and display:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4837323#post4837323

The user was already using a great player so the differences in that case, if any, may have been subtle.

Paul

Originally posted by LiteUp!
I still don't believe the S97 is being discontinued (as evidenced by this new S97 build with mysteriously new firmware that is even newer than the one in the S77).

Tweeter has them on close out so either they don't plan on carrying the s97 alongside the s77 or it is indeed discontinued.

FYI,

Just picked up this player new in box w/ Sept '04 build date and 528 firmware. Time to bring it in for a firmware upgrade.

/cheers
jer

Just update my player to 540 firmware via cd. Thanks for the great faq Paul. Much appreciated. This is a great forum.

/cheers
jer

jer,

Glad you found a good deal. Enjoy!

Paul

Originally posted by mimason
Tweeter has them on close...

In what state does Tweeter have them on close out? I asked here in MA a couple of weeks ago (after a report in this forum), and the Tweeter salesman said they hadn't carried any Panny DVD players for "several years;" in fact they carry few DVD players, saying they've become too low margin, carried by all the big box stores (like the Circuit City nearly across the street from this Tweeter).

I picked mine up today at Sound Advice St Petersburg, FL (owned by Tweeter) today for $158 out the door on close out from a special order gone bad at a Sarasota location.


Nothru22 also bought one from Tweeter. Not sure where he is though.

I am in Maryland. The unit, however, came from PA because the display models around here did not have the remotes. Monkeys.

Robert,

How is the layer change on your S97 with the 360 firmware? My S97 with the 540 firware still has a somewhat noticeable layer change on some movies (e.g. Gladiator chapter 14).

wtped,

I have a 57HDX82 as well and I noticed a significant improvement switching to the S97. Prior to this player I was using a Zenith 318 and prior to that I was using a Panasonic RP82. Overall, I saw a significant increase in detail going from a 480p player to a 1080i player (RP82 to 318); I also saw a fair bit of improvement going from the Zenith 318 to the S97 though the Zenith 318 still has some advantages such as the ability to convert PAL to NTSC and better quality zoom for displayer non-anamorphic dvd's.

A word of caution, I had a problem with the supplied HDMI cable; I initially thought it was the player and exchanged it and the same thing occurred with the supplied HDMI cable in that box; if you experience a problem like I did use another cable. The problem was that I would notice a red line appear for a split second every few minutes throughout a movie.

Any more reports regarding the S97 360 firmware? Sure would like to hear about them.

Paul

On the 360 firmware, layer change is very fast. Nearly unnoticeable.

I wonder if the new hardware/firmware from April 2005 build indicates that Pan is not discontinuing the S97, but was just getting rid of the older version before introducing the new one.

Robert,

This is good news. Hope Kris take you up on your offer.

Paul

Kris has taken me up on my offer. I watched Aviator last night, and had I not been looking for it, I doubt if I would have noticed the layer change

Robert,

I guess we await the results! Would like to find an April 2005 at a local retailer.

Paul

Paul-
www.jandr.com is very good. I've bought lots from them over the years w/no problems at all. 30 day return from date of receipt w/no restocking fee, and they give you no grief. Good price; free shipping. They are constantly getting shipments in and selling them out because of high demand.
Bob

I'm tempted. I've bought from J&R as well. Good service.

Paul

Greetings Learned Forum:

Is anyone out there running their S97 with an Optoma H31 PJ? If so, please post your impressions and experiences with this combo. Thanks to this thread, I feel quite up to speed on the S97. While I wait for my H31 to arrive, I am wondering how they will work together, how people have them configured, your experiences with calibration, etc. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Nicholas B

From the recent threads it seems that there might be:-

a)a new firmware version for the S97 or

b)new components within the newly-manufactured s97's which require a different firmware (and probably not backwards compatible with the older s97's)

Can anyone confirm (thinking lite-up/sango/paul b/tohoho and any others)?

b) Units manufactured in April 2005 are 86H360. The H indicates a change in the system control hardware from previous S97s (E). The firmwaare is 360, which, because of the hardware change can almost certainly not be used in prior S97s.

With all the people who bought the firmware 360 S97s, is it correct that not one has posted any internal pictures? We can't help if we can't see the pictures as one S97 is enough for me and others ;)

I haven't seen any pictures. I find it interesting that Panasonic USA has *still* not posted an S77 .pdf manual.

Paul

Hey Paul,
I just saw a new S97 on ebay with a April 2005 build date and it comes with HQV test dvd !

Thanks steviec,

I have an HQV disc on the way. I'm awaiting for a local B&M to have the 4/2005 player in stock.

Paul

What is an HQV disc? Is this Avia/DVE lite?

http://www.siliconoptix.com/HQV/benchmark.cfm?CFID=&CFTOKEN=2781d250fea93f54-385BBD67-7E90-E2A3-B1DE28D4F581D3A3

I have never heard of this disc! Is this an Avia/DVE alternative, or an "in addition to" disc?

It's the latest and greatest.

It's another battery of tests with a scoring system. When I get the disc, I'll run the S97 (540 level) through it and post results on the first post.

Paul

Does the HQV disc encourage one to break the Cardinal Rule that YE SHALL NEVER TWEAK THY SOURCE...ONLY THY DISPLAY? Is the scuttlebutt that HQV is preferable to DVE? I have DVE, and now I'm wondering if HQV should be my next purchase...

Nicholas B

I don't have the HQV disc yet, but from what I have read about it, it isn't a "calibration" disc but an "evaluation" disc, though it appears that some material can be used for calibration.

As such I would say it supplements DVE or Avia.

Paul

Greetings Learned Forum:

Is anyone out there running their S97 with an Optoma H31 PJ? If so, please post your impressions and experiences with this combo. Thanks to this thread, I feel quite up to speed on the S97. While I wait for my H31 to arrive, I am wondering how they will work together, how people have them configured, your experiences with calibration, etc. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Nicholas B

Nicholas,
Please report when you get it working. I have the H31 and am trying to decide what dvd player to buy. Right now it is between the S97 and the Oppo.

Paul,
Don't you have both players? Which would you recommend for just watching normal DVDs?

I have both players. I recommend that people compare the information presented and make a choice. I think that both players are fine choices and are extremely close. The Panasonic has the edge in PQ and features, the Oppo has the edge with disc compatibility and navigation.

Paul

I have both players...and I fully agree with Paul's comment above.

Hello everybody!

I'm new here, but I need some information of all you experts out there.

I just recieved the S97 (May 2005 - European Version) coming with a firmware 86h360 and it seems to be faulty.

When I switch it to 750p (50 Hz PAL) The picture seems somewhat distorted on the righthand side. From the right border a field of about 8 inches is about half an inch lower then the rest of the picture. This is very annoying, because most of my DVDs are in PAL and I don't want to convert them to 750/60 (which solves the problem). It is pretty useless to convert a PAL signal to NTSC just to bring it on screen without any errors.
BTW. is this the infamous Pixel Drop Problem which occurred on some 540 firmware machines?

Thanks for your help!

Regards,
SteveG DE

Hello Steve,

Welcome to the forum!

From the S97 firmware thread:

S97 Firmware Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5064953#post5064953)

For PAL users that have firmware version 540 (thanks to Aquila_BE):

There is no need to downgrade the firmware of the s97 back to 536 to get rid of the pixel drop bug in 750p mode! I have firmware 540 and I am playing PAL movies without the pixel drop in 750p mode!

The only thing you have to do is go to the Setup menu of your s97, go to the 'Video' tab and set 'Convert from PAL' to 525 (480)p/60Hz (which is NTSC).

Also set 'NTSC disc output' to NTSC in stead of PAL60.

That's all, the pixel drop bug is now gone. And I can see no loss in picture quality playing a PAL movie being converted to NTSC.

It this what you've tried? In any event it seems to be the workaround.

Paul

Thanks mate! :)

Yes, that is exactly the workaround I have tried and yes it works.

BUT

1. there is a loss in picture quality, mainly the loss of smooth motion due to
the conversion to 60 Hz

and

2. it's not the way it should be. If I buy a European Player to watch European DVDs, I don't want to use workarounds to do so.
What's the point in an European Player that doesn't play European DVDs properly?!? :confused:

With regards,
SteveG DE

Hello Steve,

You're welcome!

I think that suggestion is the best we've come up with and it is only a workaround.

A visit to a Panasonic repair shop might be the next step. The "360" is the latest firmware I'm aware of.

Cheers!

Paul

Hi all

Just got a S97 from a hi-fi store out here in Seattle with a Sep 04 build date and the 540 rev. I got it for 279 from Magnolia Hi-Fi and they have several in stock at many locations around the Puget Sound area with no plans on carrying the S77. I'm trying to dial it in, so far watching Attack of the Clones after using the THX optimizer and am displaying it on a Panny pt-50dl54 DLP with a 2+ chipset. Looks pretty awesome from the old panny rv32 composite player I had before. Just a silly question though, I have set the output to 1080i, and indeed that is the format displayed in the video format HDMI status menu. But, the little green light on the front of the player labeled 720p/1080i doesn't illuminate. Is it supposed to? The manual doesn't even mention those lights at all. When I switch between 720p and 1080i I can't really see a *huge* difference in pq. Any thoughts? I'm new to all this so I don't know what I don't know.

Thanks
Sean

Hello Sean,

I'm configured for 1080i HDMI to a Panasonic direct view LCD. The 720p/1080i indicator lights up.

What turns the light off for me is:

Setup->HDMI->Video Mode: Off
or
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Video Output Mode: 480p

I played around with other settings and enhancers to see if the the LED would go off while still in 1080i -- was unable to make the LED go off.

If I turn the Video Mode back to "On" and select the Video Output Mode to "1080i" the front panel LED lights up.

Might try resetting the player back to factory defaults:
Setup->Others->Re-initialize: Yes

Depending upon the quality of the TV's scaler, it is entirely possible little or no difference will be seen between 720p and 1080i or even 480p for that matter. It may be your display has a superior scaler.

Paul

I would be sending that DLP a 720 signal so there is no processing done. The Panny DLP is 720 native, so you can get a 1:1 pixel map.

Hello Steve,

Welcome to the forum!

From the S97 firmware thread:

S97 Firmware Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5064953#post5064953)

For PAL users that have firmware version 540 (thanks to Aquila_BE):

There is no need to downgrade the firmware of the s97 back to 536 to get rid of the pixel drop bug in 750p mode! I have firmware 540 and I am playing PAL movies without the pixel drop in 750p mode!

The only thing you have to do is go to the Setup menu of your s97, go to the 'Video' tab and set 'Convert from PAL' to 525 (480)p/60Hz (which is NTSC).

Also set 'NTSC disc output' to NTSC in stead of PAL60.

That's all, the pixel drop bug is now gone. And I can see no loss in picture quality playing a PAL movie being converted to NTSC.

It this what you've tried? In any event it seems to be the workaround.

Paul
Paul, I know this post is from someone else, but do you know if S97 converts PAL to NTSC? It seems from this post it does, but I've been told many times US version of S97 doesn't convert PAL to NTSC. It is only able to output PAL/50 for RCE0/1 discs (by default w/o remote region-free hack)

It seems from this post, at least the European version is able to convert PAL to NTSC, so it is likely just disabled in the US version (or I'm under the wrong impression about the US version not being able to convert)

sfhub,

I don't have the PAL equipment or discs, so have had to rely on the reports of others. The word from the beginning has been that a PAL display is needed for PAL discs with the USA S97 model. IF NTSC conversion is merely firmware disabled, I haven't heard of a firmware hack, and if I recall the firmware updates have been from European sources so if it was *just* firmware issue I would think that PAL->NTSC would be enabled -- but it (reportedly) isn't.

Pure speculation and anyone who tries is on their own: maybe there's a resistor or jumper needed to enable PAL->NTSC function? Closely examining the circuit board or a comprehensive service manual might give a clue.

Paul

Hello Sean,

I'm configured for 1080i HDMI to a Panasonic direct view LCD. The 720p/1080i indicator lights up.

What turns the light off for me is:

Setup->HDMI->Video Mode: Off
or
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->Video Output Mode: 480p

I played around with other settings and enhancers to see if the the LED would go off while still in 1080i -- was unable to make the LED go off.

If I turn the Video Mode back to "On" and select the Video Output Mode to "1080i" the front panel LED lights up.

Might try resetting the player back to factory defaults:
Setup->Others->Re-initialize: Yes

Depending upon the quality of the TV's scaler, it is entirely possible little or no difference will be seen between 720p and 1080i or even 480p for that matter. It may be your display has a superior scaler.

Paul


Thanks for the info Paul! My head hurts from staying up all night reading the 115 pages of this post. Guess I shoulda jumped on the 97 earlier! I did reset to factory settings with no change in the front 720/1080i led status. I popped in the Aviator and checked on my HDMI status, and the video format has 1080i underlined in red, but still no led indication on the front panel. Which to believe? Burned out led (silly matter really, but its new and it *should* be working) or something more sinister afoot? Thinking about taking it back down to the store and comparing it against their demo unit.

Could be a bad LED, connector, or soldering.

When using HDMI and playing a multichannel DVD (like the Aviator), do the other two HDMI LEDs (Video/Multi-channel) light up OK? They should. If not, maybe it's a loose connector issue.

All three of the S97's LEDs light when a multichannel DVD is playing.

Paul

Could be a bad LED, connector, or soldering.

When using HDMI and playing a multichannel DVD (like the Aviator), do the other two HDMI LEDs (Video/Multi-channel) light up OK? They should. If not, maybe it's a loose connector issue.

All three of the S97's LEDs light when a multichannel DVD is playing.

Paul

Yep, the first 2 LED's light up, but still no 720p/1080i led. Again, the HDMI status shows that either 720 or 1080 is being displayed when I select them with no change in the led. I've tried many diff discs all with the same result. Probably a .03 connecter thats busted, but it's enough to kick in my obsessive compulsiveness and warrant a trip back to the store to compare with the demo. Thanks for coming to work on a Sunday (I think you must spend more time here than at your real job helping us out!)

Sean

You're welcome!

Actually, I've been on vacation all week!

Paul

sfhub,

I don't have the PAL equipment or discs, so have had to rely on the reports of others. The word from the beginning has been that a PAL display is needed for PAL discs with the USA S97 model. IF NTSC conversion is merely firmware disabled, I haven't heard of a firmware hack, and if I recall the firmware updates have been from European sources so if it was *just* firmware issue I would think that PAL->NTSC would be enabled -- but it (reportedly) isn't.

Pure speculation and anyone who tries is on their own: maybe there's a resistor or jumper needed to enable PAL->NTSC function? Closely examining the circuit board or a comprehensive service manual might give a clue.

Paul
So is this implicitly confirming European S97 does PAL->NTSC conversion or just restating USA S97 only does PAL50?

The confusing statement for me was from the quote from Aquila_BE that was referenced in your post (and FAQ). "And I can see no loss in picture quality playing a PAL movie being converted to NTSC." which led me to believe at least the European S97 does this NTSC to PAL conversion.

Ok, here is what I've got for you guys:

I can choose with my European S97 whether I want to play Pal DVDs as

625p/50 Hz (which results in the infamous Pixel Drop problem in 750p)

or

525p/60 Hz (which works finewith a very slide loss of picture quality)

With regards,

SteveG DE

April 2005 Build IC Part Numbers:

I popped the top, and here are the IC numbers I found. I am not savvy in these matters, so someone willhave to figure out what some of them are:
Genesis FLI2310-LF (the LF addition appears to be the part # in Asia)
Pan MN20S004AP (DD & DTS)
Silcon Image 511903CTU (HDMI)
Analog Devices ADV7330KST (528260) very small print; may be wrong
No Name BA6779FM
No Name 290L323TE-90FTN

All of these were on a board on the right side of the player, which was above another board. I did NOT remove the upper board. The board on the left hand side of the player had no ICs.

You know you are really hooked in deep when "getting acquainted with your new DVD player" gets to this level! This forum is just too cool. My Optoma H31 projector arrived today, so my S97 (which has been gathering dust for weeks) is getting put through the paces within the next hour or so. I can't wait. I will report back tomorrow.

Nicholas B

April 2005 Build IC Part Numbers:

I popped the top, and here are the IC numbers I found. I am not savvy in these matters, so someone willhave to figure out what some of them are:
Genesis FLI2310-LF (the LF addition appears to be the part # in Asia)
Pan MN20S004AP (DD & DTS)
Silcon Image 511903CTU (HDMI)
Analog Devices ADV7330KST (528260) very small print; may be wrong
No Name BA6779FM
No Name 290L323TE-90FTN

All of these were on a board on the right side of the player, which was above another board. I did NOT remove the upper board. The board on the left hand side of the player had no ICs.

Working off some high rez photos I previously took of the same board on an earlier S97 I note the following:


Genesis-.......... FLI2310-LF VS. FLI2310-LF.......Same
Panasonic.........MN2DS0004AP VS. MN20S004AP...Slighty different, typo?
Silicon Image....SIL9030CTU VS. 511903CTU......Ignoring prefix #slightly diff, typo?
Analog Devices.ADV7330KST VS. ADV7330KST....Same though small print has sig. differences.
Malaysia ..........29DL323TE-90FTN VS. No Name 290L323TE-90FTN....Typo
No Name..........BA6679FM VS. BA6779FM............Different, typo?

I suspect the differences noted are typos or possibly misreads and if so the processing chips above appear to be the same between the two units, the only real difference being the small print noted on the Analog Devices video DAC, 196326.1 VS 528260

The print was very small and at 55 w/presbyopia tough to read. I suspect all of the differences were the result of vision problems and the parts are the same(not typos).

The FLI-2310-LF has more writing -- for example, manufacturing date.

I would think we would want to compare every bit of writing on the Genesis.

Paul

I know what you mean Robert, I suffer from astigmatism and find it difficult to do the micro-soldering work I used to enjoy.

Paul

The FLI-2310-LF has more writing -- for example, manufacturing date.

I would think we would want to compare every bit of writing on the Genesis.


Well, comparing manufacturing dates, etc. isn't going to tell us much. What we'd LIKE to see (but won't, I'd expect, is a "Rev. n" designation, for some value of n.

My guess is that what we are MORE likely to find (if we looked, and it's harder what with mutli-layer circuit boards and all) is minor changes in the circuitry surrounding the major chips. Have any of the smaller IC's changed -- for example, in their type or layout? We'll likely never identify changes in the PC board traces, but that's where change could, in fact, take place (e.g., certain pins of certain ICs tied to 0 or +5 to set certain modes; small PROMs containing different data to set IC modes differently, etc.)

Does the S97 PC board itself have any designations on it, like a part number, rev. number, or date? THAT would be truly telling, in my estimation.

Agreed.

There are photographs of the interior of the Sept 2004 build S97 on the first post of the thread.

Paul

Guys, does anybody know what the differences are between the s77 and s97 in terms of features and pq? I have compared them side by side on the panny website and can't discern a diff. Apologies if this question has been answered earlier, but this thread is monstrous and I have a s97 that I bought a coupla days ago and has to be returned. The 720/1080 led light not illuminating on the front panel was the first issue, and now the unit freezes after about 2 hours of playtime rendering all buttons and functions useless. Have to unplug the unit to power off. My 97 was an open box item that was used for an evaualtion by a local tech writer and the firmware was flashed to 540 by him. So, back it goes and I can get a great deal on a new s77 via the employee purchase program from panny. Question is, will a new s77 be as good as an older s97 (sept 04 build date) that has the 540 firmware? Also, does anybody know what the latest s77 firmware number is?

On a totally diff note, anybody like/dislike the xr-70s as a receiver mated to the s77 feeding a panny PT-50DL54 hd 2+ dlp?

Here's a comparison:

Panasonic S97/S77 features comparison (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelComparisonResults?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&catGroupId=24988&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&surfCategory=DVD%20Home%20Players&items=71539|89310|)

I don't have the S77 just the S97.

Paul

Thanks Paul, I was looking at that earlier. All the "N/A's" found in the s77 side make me wonder if the features aren't there, or Panny just doen't know if they are or not. Looks like the only main diff is the absence of the Pro Logic II. In your learned opinion, would the 77 perform as well as the 97? When mine worked , the pq was incredible. The store I bought it at now wants over msrp for their remaining s97's, that's why I am going to return mine and probably get the s77 direct from panny emloyee program for well under msrp.

Sean

Based on the responses and description of others, it is my guess the PQ of the S77 would be the same as the S97.

Could be wrong though. I haven't seen it in operation.

Paul

I have a DVD-S97 feeding a SA-XR70 through the HDMI cable. Unfortunately I do not have an HD TV, so I am only using this for the audio. I am VERY happy with both units. The audio is clean and well separated. I noticed a difference right away when I replaced my old SONY 935. Seems like the perfect marriage for me. Now I just need that new plasma..............

Paul,
I had a new S97 i purchased at magnolia hi-fi here in beaverton.
the date on the box for delivery was april.
I checked the firmware and it was the H350.
the players is fast and worked great,passed all the tests on the HQV benchmark.
however when comparing the S97 to the Pioneer 59avi with its issues according to the secrets benchmark the pioneer was the clear winner due to its much smoother handling of motion and lack of macroblocking.The S97 still had the worst macroblocking i have seen ,even worse than the denon 5900 and 3910 i used to own.
bottom line :if you find a player you like keep it until the new hd players come out and dont go by just the secrets benchmark or avia,dve HQV etc.What counts is how the picture appears on your display.

Thanks steviec,

Those results would indicate that the altered hardware S97 w/350 firmware is still using the same version FLI-2310.

Paul

Just to get it clear. Does the S97 plays DVD-R without any problems? I mean has anyone seen severel backup DVD (DVD-R) on the player and how was the result?

Its because I have just received my Philips 9000S. It plays DVD-R fine when you just put it in the tray and test the menues and some few scenes, but when you watch the whole movie it lags 3-5 times during the movie. That was not the case on my old Nintaus 9901.

I have used burned Dvd-R disks on the S97 with no problems. The backup DVD's work fine.

As always I recommend using a quality blank disk. I would also suggest burning at a slower speed for best results.

I have also tried DVD+RW on the S97 and they worked just fine.

Can someone tell me if there is any major difference between the S97 and the S77 since the S97 is virtually impossible to find unless you want to pay more than retail and even then there are not many to be had. Is the S77 a watered down version or what? I can find the S77 all day and it's cheaper so what's the difference?
:confused:

Can someone tell me if there is any major difference between the S97 and the S77 since the S97 is virtually impossible to find unless you want to pay more than retail and even then there are not many to be had. Is the S77 a watered down version or what? I can find the S77 all day and it's cheaper so what's the difference?
:confused:


Never mind, I just saw Paul's link above about comparisons. Thanks.

Footnotes 1 This unit can play back Panasonic DVD-R discs recorded and finalized with a Panasonic DVD video recorder. It may not be able to play some DVD-R discs depending on the disc and the condition of the recording.

What the hell does this mean? Can anyone comfirm that they can indeed play DVD-R disks of burned copies of movies they own using a computer. Has anyone had any trouble with any of the media that is listed as compatible with the S97 and the S77?

It means that some DVD-R (for whatever reason) just might not play. May need to try:

1. Different brand of DVD-R
2. Different DVD burner
3. Different rates of encoding
4. Ensure the DVD-R hasn't been used as a coaster first

They're not guaranteeing that every DVD-R ever made is going to play.

Paul

I've had trouble with backed-up DVD-Rs on the S77. There's been stuttering, and in one instance, freezing. These are discs that play fine on multiple computers, other DVD players, and my DVD recorder.

I've had trouble with backed-up DVD-Rs on the S77. There's been stuttering, and in one instance, freezing. These are discs that play fine on multiple computers, other DVD players, and my DVD recorder.

That sounds weird. We have 3 differente Panasonic players in our house and they all play DVD-R without problems.

Which DVD-R do you use? Which burner and how fast do you burn?

That sounds weird. We have 3 differente Panasonic players in our house and they all play DVD-R without problems.

Which DVD-R do you use? Which burner and how fast do you burn?

Insaniac, I would like to know what media, burner, and burner software combination has worked for you. Do you have an S97 or S77?

I have no problems with DVD-r's. S77, Plextor 716a, Verbatim media. I use either DVDshrink (if I can get away with very little compression), or DVDfab if I want to split DVD-9 to 2 discs.

-Mike

Thanks Mike, nice DVD burner BTW, I've had my eye on that one. What software and speed did you use to burn them?

I plan on backing up my DVD collection and letting the kids destroy the copies. It would be a deal breaker for me if the S77 had problems playing DVD-R. Anyone else have any good or bad media experiences?

As Insaniac mentioned...try burning at a slower speed.

Hi,

I'm thinking about getting one of these players tomorrow. I need to know if will upscale the image to 720P through either an HDMI - DVI adaptor - DVI display (Hitachi PJX100 FP), or though a direct HDMI - DVI cable.

I'm a bit concerned that this HDCP thing won't allow this.

Jon

I used the HDMI -> DVI cable that came with my Tivo to great success.

As long as the Hitachi display is HDCP capable, there should be no problem. I have a Hitachi Plasma display with DVI input. No problem connecting the S97 to it with an adapter cable.

Paul

i

Hey Guys. I asked a couple of threads ago if the S97 would play a Double layer backup and I believe the asnwer was yes. Now I have a Plextor PX-716A, DVD Shrink, DVD Decripter, Nero 6.6 and Ridata double layer. The backup I made plays well on the Plextor but on the S97 it won't go from the DVD menu. Has any of you had this trouble? Any help will be appreciated.

How did you burn the DVD+R DL backup? Did you use DVD Decrypter to rip the disk in ISO Read mode and then use ISO Write mode to burn the disk? I do that and I have had no problems playing it in my S97. The only difference is that I used the Verbatim Dual Layer disk insted of Ridata.

Hey Guys. I asked a couple of threads ago if the S97 would play a Double layer backup and I believe the asnwer was yes. Now I have a Plextor PX-716A, DVD Shrink, DVD Decripter, Nero 6.6 and Ridata double layer. The backup I made plays well on the Plextor but on the S97 it won't go from the DVD menu. Has any of you had this trouble? Any help will be appreciated.

Hey Guys. I asked a couple of threads ago if the S97 would play a Double layer backup and I believe the asnwer was yes. Now I have a Plextor PX-716A, DVD Shrink, DVD Decripter, Nero 6.6 and Ridata double layer. The backup I made plays well on the Plextor but on the S97 it won't go from the DVD menu. Has any of you had this trouble? Any help will be appreciated.

Do not use DVD Shrink. There is a problem how it rips DL discs. That is why it will not play passed DVD Menu. All Panasonic players behave the same if you use DVD Shrink. Use DVD Decrypter and DL discs will play perfectly.

Guys, I solved the problem following your suggestions and using DVD Decripter. But like I asked on the Panasonic DVD-S97 Firmware Thread. Where are you getting TDK, Tayo Yuden or Verbatim media.

Hi folks,
As I understand it, the S97 allows simultaneous HDMI and Component output. I was looking at the pictures in the original thread trying to see if SVHS is supported but I can't tell. Does this unit also support SVHS output simultaneously with HDMI?

Also, can the HDMI video output mode be set independantly of the componant and/or SHVS (if applicable)?

Sorry my mind was thinking "S-video" and my fingers typed "SVHS".
:confused:

This player is not saving any of my picture settings after I turn the unit off. What am I doing wrong? I've tried it during a movie and with the movie ejected and it still won't save them.

This is odd. I don't have problem saving the settings. Although I seem to remember that happening once after a firmware update. Try unplugging the S97 for a few minutes.

Paul

New to this thread :) Just to let you all know, my S97S is on its way to me from www.vanns.com They recently received a shipment in from Panasonic, not sure how long they will last, now that I've mentioned this :) If you add it to your cart, they offer lower than msrp pricing, not bad, plus free shipping.

I also have a 25' HDMI to DVI certified cable coming from www.monoprice.com as my Z2 has a DVI connection.

Randy

Not in stock any more at Vanns - so much for available. Darn thing is hard to come by.

E

Dual Layer?

Do not use DVD Shrink. There is a problem how it rips DL discs. That is why it will not play passed DVD Menu. All Panasonic players behave the same if you use DVD Shrink. Use DVD Decrypter and DL discs will play perfectly.

what is DL? after using Decrypter, what software r u using to burn it to a DVD?

Try www.jandr.com They had the April 2005 last time I checked.

No go...

Temporarily Out of Stock

It figures.

You have to save them under a User Mode setting.

This player is not saving any of my picture settings after I turn the unit off. What am I doing wrong? I've tried it during a movie and with the movie ejected and it still won't save them.

Man, I must have just been lucky. I talked to one of their CS people, and they had a few hundred on order, they must have sold out in like one day. Sorry folks, I was hoping I could help a few of you out :(

No worries - it's just a DVD player ;-))


E

I have the April, 2005 model and I am virtually certain that I have identified an artifact that the player produces. It appears only intermittently and is somewhat display dependent, but it's definitely there.

The artifact looks like faint, thin vertical lines. For those of you familiar with LCD front projectors, you'll recognize this as similar to the vertical banding problem that many Panasonic PJ's have suffered from. There are 5 reasons why I think what I see is being caused by the DVD player.

1. I just started noticing it on my Sony HS20 projector after getting the S97. The HS20 is notoriously immune from vertical banding, and I had never seen it before.
2. I just upgraded my pj to the Optoma H79. This is a DLP unit that no one has ever reported vertical banding, and yet I still see it. Interestingly, on the Sony I saw the bands in light areas, but on the Optoma I see them in dark, hazy areas.
3. I hooked up an inferior Toshiba DVD player and the artifact disappeared.
4. The problem is worse with DVI than component.
5. The artifact disappears when viewing SD or HD material from my Comcast box.

Let me be clear, despite this I am quite happy with the S97. It otherwise throws a great image. Also, the artifact appears very seldom, but it is noticable.

Anyone else seen this?

Tom,

Good report! Any particular DVDs & scenes as an example? I've had a Sept 2004 build S97 and haven't seen anything like what is described.

The $64,000 question has been what was changed (hardware/software) in the Apr. 2005 S97 build.

Paul

One scene is when Russell Crowe looks through a telescope towards the fog bank at the beginning of Master and Commander.

One scene is when Russell Crowe looks through a telescope towards the fog bank at the beginning of Master and Commander.

So every time you watch this scene, the artifact is present (i.e., it isn't random)? This doesn't sound at all like macroblocking, but isn't that one of the notorius macroblocking scenes? Perhaps this artifact has something to do with the new firmware/hardward Panasonic installed on these players to combact macroblocking enhancement...

Dual Layer?


DL is for Double Layer in DVD+R DL and for Dual Layer in DVD-R DL blank discs.

what is DL? after using Decrypter, what software r u using to burn it to a DVD?


DL is for Double Layer in DVD+R DL and for Dual Layer in DVD-R DL blank discs. You use Decrypter to burn DL disc in Mode/ISO/W. Like they teach me.

So every time you watch this scene, the artifact is present (i.e., it isn't random)? This doesn't sound at all like macroblocking, but isn't that one of the notorius macroblocking scenes?

No, it doesn't look like macro blocking. The faint vertical lines are perfectly spaced. Tonight I'll try two things:
1) Look at this scene in interlaced mode.
2) Take a screen shot in progressive mode and post.

If it goes away in interlaced mode, then it is definitely a deinterlacing artifact.

I had these vertical lines when I played the player at 720p on my 1080i CRT RPTV. They did not appear in 480p or 1080i. I figured it was a side effect of converting 480i to 720p then back down to 540p.

DL is for Double Layer in DVD+R DL and for Dual Layer in DVD-R DL blank discs. You use Decrypter to burn DL disc in Mode/ISO/W. Like they teach me.
I did not know that Decrypter could also write to DVDs..thought it can only rip for backups.

I did not know that Decrypter could also write to DVDs..thought it can only rip for backups.
Yep. That is what I use to burn to dvd. I never use DVDShrink but only to remove unwanted items. DVDShrink can than create an iso and now you can use decrypter to back it up.

No, it doesn't look like macro blocking. The faint vertical lines are perfectly spaced. Tonight I'll try two things:
1) Look at this scene in interlaced mode.
2) Take a screen shot in progressive mode and post.

If it goes away in interlaced mode, then it is definitely a deinterlacing artifact.
The MPEG DNR feature (one of the S97's noise reduction options) produces vertical banding. Try turning it off.

The best settings to use for the S97 are:
480P over dvi ,normal . Make all other settings on the display!
All other upconverted resolutions seem to produce more noise ,artifacts and macroblocking.
480P thru dvi into a iscan HD+ is spectacular!

The best settings to use for the S97 are:
480P over dvi ,normal . Make all other settings on the display!
All other upconverted resolutions seem to produce more noise ,artifacts and macroblocking.
480P thru dvi into a iscan HD+ is spectacular!

The iscan HD+ is awesome, but many of us cannot afford it. In lieu of that, the s97 does an admirable job.

no artifacts here via HDMI/DVI cable, 25ft, to my Z2 upconverting to 720p.

Great comments here! Thanks to everyone!

I have the Panasonic S77S, much different from the S97? Am running it HDMI to my Panasonic AE700U.

I also have seen this strange wavy line in only black out scenes on a DVD I was viewing last night for the first time. It was on the DVD - Harry Potter Prisioner of Az.. Only Only in black fade out scene's though, very very bizarre wavy lines in a greenish color. I will note that not all black out scenes exhibited this behavior, seems only certain shots, optical ones where the screen fade was from the borders to the center circle. This Harry Potter film has a few very distinct "all black" fades unique to this film. The Star Wars saga's use many "wipes" to black, and I have not seen this effect present on them...

Let's face it, not many films cut or fade to all black screens too often, so many out there with this player(s) (the S97S or S77S) may not have noticed it.

When I first noticed it, my first thought was - was this some sort of copyright interference bug noise, or was it my settings...

Another note: which setting is best? RGB, 4:4:4, or 4:2:2?

My player does no have a RGB enhanced. P.S. I also tried the Samsung HD-850, I took it back.

Another note: which setting is best? RGB, 4:4:4, or 4:2:2?

My player does no have a RGB enhanced.

I was wondering if someone could clarify these two options for me as well.

There is no "best" setting. Some displays (DVI) do not allow the 4:2:2 and the 4:4:4 but only RGB.

I added an update to the FAQ that explains the differences.

Paul

OK, I finally got around to capturing some screen shots. They actually turned out better than I expected as they somewhat exaggerate the problem I referred to a few posts ago.

First, let me point out that I see two problems with this player.

1) I cannot get good color accuracy through the DVI output. There is a good thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=550751&page=2) that discusses the issue of color decoding and using DVI color decoding is a function of the source device, whereas through compnent it is controlled by the display device. In any case, this image from chapter 10 of High Fidelity illustrates this perfectly.

Component and DVI inputs are both calibrated and, oddly enough, measured similarly. I also turned off DNR, which made no difference.

2) I see an artifact of symmetrical vertical lines. These only appear on some scenes, so it is fairly subtle. It is worse on DVI.

DVI example (http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/dvi.jpg)

Component example (http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/rgb1.jpg)

The vertical lines appear against the uniform background of the wall and the DVI example clearly has a greenish tint.

Am I the only one seeing this?

I dont have the movie.

I see what you're talking about with the vertical lines in the picture.

I also see the obvious greenish tint in the DVI picture as well.

I have never seen a green tint issue with the S97 although I think it has been mentioned with the "Bourne Identity" DVD and it's been detemined in that case it's the DVD.

It is possible the DVI is tracking gray differently than component? Some TVs have different service mode calibrations for each input.

How does grayscale tracking look at low IRE with DVI, say 0-20? The Sound and Vision calibration DVD is good for this as it has distinctly labeled IRE in 1 IRE increments.

Paul

One problem solved.

Thanks to Brian Miller. The vertical banding problem defiinitely was the DNR. I thought I had turned it off, but I hadn't. Here's the deal: It has 4 settings off, 1, 2, and 3. It is at setting 1 and only at setting 1 that this problem appears. At 2 and 3 the bands disappear, but the picture becomes so soft you wouldn't want to watch it.

Still don't know what's causing the DVI color problem. I tweaked the low-level gray scale so that component and DVI are very similar. There's nothing in the measurements to explain this. In fact, the only odd measurement I'm getting is with the component gamma, which is much too high (3.6).

I'm getting my hands on a DVDO iScan HD+ next week. After putting it into the loop I'll report back.

Do you have the black level set on darker or lighter? If your using component it should be set on the darker setting.

I was reading in another forum about the bit rates used by DVD manufacturers when they transfer a movie to DVD. Apparently the more special features and extras are thrown on the less room there is for the movie and the soundtrack. There are a series of movie titles available called Superbit and they boast that they don't include extras and instead they use the space on the disk to increase the bit rate.

This brings me to my point which I hadn't seen discussed in this thread except in a brief reference by Lite Up. Since there has been much discussion about microblocking and other picture quality issues it could be useful to turn on the Bit Rate Display feature in the S97 and watch the movie or the offending scene and see if the low bit rate is the culprit.

The bit rate display plots a running graph of the current bit rate and the average bit rate. It uses 5 Mbps as the baseline, presumably because it is some sort of suggested cut off or benchmark of a quality transfer.

I a couple of chapters of my Superbit Fifth Element and it averaged 6.8 Mbps. I then put in a movie that my wife picked up called Broke Down Palace. I ran a few chapters and it averaged 4.8 Mbps. Visually you could see the difference: Fifth Element is virtually flawless and Broke Down Palace looked almost out of focus. I had problems reading the opening titles and credits as they seemed to lack definition.

I want to try this with Star Wars Attack of the Clones - chtr 4, and Master and Commander - ship emerging from fog, to see what sort of result I get. Maybe with a low bit rate the compression is just too much and you end up with junk when you try to upconvert to 720p or 1080i.

Anyhow, this thread is called a brain dump which I have just done for what it is worth.

Mike

I was reading in another forum about the bit rates used by DVD manufacturers when they transfer a movie to DVD. Apparently the more special features and extras are thrown on the less room there is for the movie and the soundtrack. There are a series of movie titles available called Superbit and they boast that they don't include extras and instead they use the space on the disk to increase the bit rate.

This brings me to my point which I hadn't seen discussed in this thread except in a brief reference by Lite Up. Since there has been much discussion about microblocking and other picture quality issues it could be useful to turn on the Bit Rate Display feature in the S97 and watch the movie or the offending scene and see if the low bit rate is the culprit.

The bit rate display plots a running graph of the current bit rate and the average bit rate. It uses 5 Mbps as the baseline, presumably because it is some sort of suggested cut off or benchmark of a quality transfer.

I a couple of chapters of my Superbit Fifth Element and it averaged 6.8 Mbps. I then put in a movie that my wife picked up called Broke Down Palace. I ran a few chapters and it averaged 4.8 Mbps. Visually you could see the difference: Fifth Element is virtually flawless and Broke Down Palace looked almost out of focus. I had problems reading the opening titles and credits as they seemed to lack definition.

I want to try this with Star Wars Attack of the Clones - chtr 4, and Master and Commander - ship emerging from fog, to see what sort of result I get. Maybe with a low bit rate the compression is just too much and you end up with junk when you try to upconvert to 720p or 1080i.

Anyhow, this thread is called a brain dump which I have just done for what it is worth.

Mike


I would also like to add to Mr Paw observations if the macroblocking is also a function of the aspect ratio. With movies in 1.85:1 up to 1.66:1 I have not seen macroblocking.

If I use an HDMI-DVI cable with a DVI-HDMI converter on the DVI end of the cable I would lose the sound carrying ability of a pure HDMI cable right? The reason I ask is because a year ago I bought one of these cables to hook up a dvi device to my tv and now would like to pick up one of these players without shelling out for a new cable. Also, would the converter cause any quality loss in the signal (the cable is monster and so I would buy a monster converter for it).

If I use an HDMI-DVI cable with a DVI-HDMI converter on the DVI end of the cable I would lose the sound carrying ability of a pure HDMI cable right? The reason I ask is because a year ago I bought one of these cables to hook up a dvi device to my tv and now would like to pick up one of these players without shelling out for a new cable. Also, would the converter cause any quality loss in the signal (the cable is monster and so I would buy a monster converter for it).
Yes you would lose sound. No, it won't harm the picture.

cool, thanks for the quick response.

I have a March 2005 S97 going 720p into an IF 7210. I just noticed that the image does not fully fit the screen. There is a small black border around the whole image. Using the IF Overscan: Zoom control fixes the problem, and gets rid of 1:1 pixel mapping. (The Oppo does the same thing with several 720p projs.) On HDTV material the screen fit is perfect.

Has anyone else noticed this with the "new" S97? It is not readily apparent.

Incidentally, I hooked up a Pan RP82 going 480i component into the IF 7210 and could swear he pic was much better than the S97: less nose, better colors, more natural pic, and no screen size problem. I couldn't A/B them as my S97is on the way to Kris for testing.

Anyone using an S97 with a dtrovision DC-DA1?

I hooked it up component to my Lumagen and it looks very nice. Tried it hdmi to an hdmi/dvi adapter to dtrovision DC-DA1 and get nothing. Any help appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave

Does anybody know the difference between the S97 and s77 models?

Hello,

1. Slight difference in depth
2. S77 does not have Dolby ProLogic II
3. S77 does not have the shiny silver tray endpiece

In reviews the S97 is indicated to be, performance-wise, a bit more refined.

Paul

I am not sure the Dtrovision works with HDCP. I had a Dtrovision switch and they had to exchange it for the HDMI version which works fine. I would guess the problem is with the switch. I would suggest calling them. They offered very good support. I received the new one the next day and I returned the old one.

I am not sure the Dtrovision works with HDCP. I had a Dtrovision switch and they had to exchange it for the HDMI version which works fine. I would guess the problem is with the switch. I would suggest calling them. They offered very good support. I received the new one the next day and I returned the old one.

This one is supposed to be HDCP compliant, but I may have a problematic switch as I just tried it with an Oppo which does not use HDCP and it only works with 480p (not 720p or 1080i). Thanks, I'll contact them.

Dave

I know that Dtrvision has changed its chips several times. I am sure that they will send you
a newer one. The bandwith of the switch you have does not seem high enough. I have the new Dtrovision 4x1 HDMI switch and I use it with the Oppo and the 97S along with my
SA cable box. It works great.

The bandwith of the switch you have does not seem high enough.

It is supposed to have an RGB bandwidth of 165 MHz (which would support 1080p) and they do claim 1080p support. I'm contacting them to see.

Thanks,
Dave

Good Luck, I had a a problem with a DVI switch and I now have a new HDMI switch that supports HDCP it has resolved my problem.

HDMI switch, does it cost $200 plus or so?

My S97 update and XR70 receiver update:
1) I stayed with 536 firmware because I did not want to gain picture softness.

2) Primarily use is with the HDMI output connected to two Belkin silver HDMI cables ($42 each ) for the best picture quality. These affordable, quality cables do make a difference if (and this is a big if) the system has no other weaker links.

3) I've tried all of the different color spaces at 720p resolution to feed to my Sony HS20 front projector's HDMI input. Only the RGB decodes correctly, as the the 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 exhibit a green push. That is, the Sony thinks the 720p input is a HD picture when it is a lowly SD picture.
The RGB output looks excellent and so does the component. This is a first rate, reliable player. I'm lucky that the Gensis 2310 chip does not show any of the dreaded macroblocking effect, at least with this combination.

4) I've compared the sound quality of the digital SPDI/F and and the HDMI 1.1 using the XR70 receiver to power my surround sound system. The HDMI's sound quality is better with more articulation and resolving power.

Panasonic has really hit a home run with this combination. But only use with 8 ohm speakers.

HDMI switch, does it cost $200 plus or so?

Yep. Maybe more. Gefen has a few HDMI switch options, but they range in price from ~$300-$800. Why are these things so pricey?

Thats why I want to invest into hdmi switching av reciever , but at reasonable price! waiting for yamaha?

Big disadvantage of HDMI switches or a switching receiver is that everything you feed to the display must be calibrated the same way. The HDMI settings on my S97 are vastly different from those on my Sci. Atlanta 8300HD STB.

I understand but no other way out!

Big disadvantage of HDMI switches or a switching receiver is that everything you feed to the display must be calibrated the same way. The HDMI settings on my S97 are vastly different from those on my Sci. Atlanta 8300HD STB.

Good point. In fact, that is so simple I completely missed it. I was planning to feed my DVD player, HD Tivo, and any future components into the HDMI slot. Now this presents a small problem. :eek:

In the S97 firmware thread there is a link to a location for a "541" firmware update for the S97. I tried it. After a quick run through, I don't see an upside or a downside to it (yet). Macroblock Enhance is not eliminated.

For the adventurous, the link is here in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5910328&&#post5910328
Try at your own risk.

Paul

Semi-off topic here, but two movies i noticed bad microblocking on this player were quite a few scenes in "red planet" and if you've seen the movie "dirty shame" when the mother is talking to her daughter Ursula Udders in her room about how she loves sex, the wall behind her suffers BADLY from mblocking. I am using a PT-43LC14 panasonic LCD proj tv with HDMI at 720P. noticed that it went away with component cables. I have the 540 firmware and i am installing the 541 2nite.

Mike

EDIT: I just reviewed the worst part of "Red Planet" for the macroblocking after installing 541, when the sun rises in chapter 17 and it was much improved, I'd say by about %80. which is a lot. while not totally gone, i was actually taken aback by it. A+ on this new firmware!

New update, I am watching "finding nemo" and before the 541 firmware, my whole screen was filled with the picture. now there are black bars at the top and bottom and the picture appears to be slightly squished vertically.

Mike

OK i am an idiot.... i forgot that when the firmware update happens, ALL settings are returned to default. including screen size (4:3), after changing it to widescreen ALL IS OK> YAY!

I used that exact scene to tweak my black levels untill I saw more detail. I have a rear projection LCD so at first everything look 2 dimensional and inky even after I calibrated using a quick THX optimizer. After some fine tuning of the Black EXT. in the advanced picture menu the scene became three dimensional with great detail and I could see parts of the room through the smoke. I have an old crappy player right now so I can't comment on macroblocking with the S97, but I just wanted to mention how helpful that scene can be for people with LCD displays.

I have an european S97S and I’m running it HDMI to my Benq PE7700 with a 33ft (10meter) profigold cable. In 525p mode(480p) is working perfectly, but in 750p and 1125i mode i see lots of(appr. 50pcs) very little blue pixel appearing randomly in whole picture. What’s the problem? My cable is too long?

Did Kris finish testing revamped S97? any one? what are results?

Luko,

HDMI should be OK at 33ft but I would, as a test, move the player closer to the display and try the the supplied 6ft HDMI cable.

Paul

Akastp,

I don't have that DVD but the description sounds like macroblock enhance.

Paul

I read somewhere that long DVI cable runs can produce sparklies. Maybe that is the artifact you are seeing.

I have had the same problem with sparkles with several cables. The funny thing is that it
doesn't always depend on the price of the cables. I have an expensive one that will not work and I got another HDMI cable that is 10m that costs less than $35 and it works great with no sparkles. Make the test with no disk in the machine or on the FBI Logo if you see the sparkles you will know it is a cable problem. If you want to be sure test it again with the 6' cable that came with the unit. If the long cable is the problem try different brands. The reason why you see the sparkles on the higher resolution settings is that more data must be passed.

Check this out.
Gefen DVI Booster (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2937)

The booster does work but it might be much cheaper to try another brand cable.

I got one that works for around $35.00 at it was 10m HDMI to HDMI. Also available are
HDMI to DVI. I have no sparkles.

Since the thread is crazy long, is there like a run-down list of fixes that the firmware did fix, setting changes to be made and such? Kind of like a FAQ...

Also, what is the diff between the S97 and S77? Are there any S77 problems?

Firmware (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5937366#post5937366)

Nevermind about the 1st question:) I found it on the front page.

I'd still like to know about the compare between the 2.

I just got this player a couple days ago. I had to wait a bit because it wasn't available anywhere. Would I need to update the firmware or should this have all the latest?

Why don't you check it and see?

Cause I'm not at home but thanks for the help.

Musicnymph - Please do check and report back! I would be interested in what is acutally on the street now for firmware.

It's very likely that your player did not come with the very latest 362 or 541 firmware. What is the build date in the back of it?

I got my Oppo about 2 weeks ago, ordered it about a week or so after the latest update and the player came with that on it already.

I picked it up from here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=PADVDS97S&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=319938

I had them mail me when it was available and it was gone a couple days later. I'll look at it when I get home and post the firmware and build date.

FYI, the date is June 05 on the back. I imagine this is up to date firmware wise.

Instructions to check the firmware version are in the first post of the thread.

Paul

I can only choose Auto or Video and not Auto1 / Auto2 on my pany S97, and I need Auto2 because I live in PAL country. :(
The S97 has firmware 536, and is connected via hdmi to the dvi connection of my projector.

How come Auto1 and Auto2 don't show up??

AkaStp, yes it can. I have the S97 and bought it here in the UK. By default it outputs PAL as PAL, but on the Component or HDMI outputs you can choose to covert it into 480p@60hz. So you should be ready to go.

Starred, PAL DVDs will only give the options "Auto" or "Video". Auto2 only appears for NTSC DVDs.

Starred, PAL DVDs will only give the options "Auto" or "Video". Auto2 only appears for NTSC DVDs.

I see :rolleyes:
So I guess Auto is the best setting for watching a PAL movie?

Yeah, that's right. As far as I'm aware, Auto2 doesn't appear on PAL movies because it's not required - Auto has never given me any problems.

Anyone know what detrimental trade-off I am making by using 4:2:2 to optimize brightness/blacklevel vs using 4:4:4??

I am using a newer S97 (June 05) together with AE700 using supplied HDMI cable at 720P. When using the default setting for color space 4:4:4 the outer most blacker-than-black color bar (DVE standard contrast test pattern) is not visible at any settings. I then switched to 4:2:2 and interestingly the outer black bar is now visible -- so I am using 4:2:2. (BTW, like 444, I'm unable to see the blacker-than-black outer bar using RGB as well).

Could not search out anything similar in early posts...thx in advance for any comment.

Dan

Sending back my Samsung HD950 and bought an S97 locally today. Used the same settings posted in the original post. Much improved picture thus far over the HD950. I think this one will suffice until HD-DVD / Blu-Ray release. The HD950, for whatever reason (didn't have any suggested menu settings, for instance) just wasn't as sharp.

Only issue I'm having with the S97 is there is one single black pixel line about 10 pixels in from the edges of the screen on all sides. It makes kind of a framing effect that shouldn't be there. Tried searching the S97 threads for a similar issue but I'm not finding anything.

Has anyone run into this or have any idea how to get rid of it? May have to take this one back to the local store and see if I can find another one, but they're hard to come by.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

In case it matters, I'm running HDMI-out to HDMI-in at 1080i to a BenQ PE7700 720p DLP front projector over a 25' HDMI cable that works flawlessly using a HTPC and HDTV Cable box. All settings are set to exactly what the original poster suggested. Changing to 720p out from the S97 does not remove the pixel wide frame inside the image.

Smooth what you're describing has been documented in these threads. It's why I run my S97 at 480p on my Toshiba MT700. Our projectors have zero underscan but the S97 doesn't know that and "cheats."

Hello,

Noticed something today and I can't recall it ever being mentioned.

Just for grins I popped in a DVD recorded in VR mode and it played. I don't recall if it didn't work with 528 or the functionality was added later.

Need to do more investigation on this.

Paul

Interesting. I suppose the overall picture quality still makes the player worth it, even if the upconversion is useless for our display. Sorry to ask the same question again. Couldn't find anything in the thread search for "black outline" "black line", etc. :cool:

Man where is Kris? where is his update??

Last I heard he was getting hammered at work and may have had to go out of town....so we wait. I dealt with my impatience by buying a S97 off ebay...heh. :)

edit: "getting hammered at work" bwaaahahaha...that was funny. NOT what I meant, but funny.

Well, I got tired of waiting for Kris to test out my new S97 w/362 which he's had for 3 weeks and got a DVD-5910. Now he can take all the time he wants, but I'd still like to see the review.

Dang! Top of the line huh? Did it feel like a big improvement? I would definately get a 5910 if I had money coming out of my ears, but alas, a Panny is all that is in store for me...:)

Wow Robert!

You went for the "big one"! Enjoy!

Paul

Actually, since Kris has my S97, and the DVD-5910 is enroute, I can't compare them at all except for these observations: the Denon is bigger than the S97, and it's black whereas the S97 is silver; however, they BOTH run on 120V AC!

Awesome review! That's why I bother to come to AVS... :)

I just recieved my S97 in the mail. There are small pieces from the bottom plastic grey tabs broken off and the panny box is pretty beat up. I bought it "new in box" off of ebay and the build date is Sept 2004. I am not happy.

Awesome review! That's why I bother to come to AVS... :)
Your comment was very funny. Not all of us are clueless:):)

Actually, since Kris has my S97, and the DVD-5910 is enroute, I can't compare them at all except for these observations: the Denon is bigger than the S97, and it's black whereas the S97 is silver; however, they BOTH run on 120V AC!

That's funny! So do you think it will fit in my cabinet and will my wife like the color?

I just bought an S97 open box today and they had to order me a remote control because it didnt come with one. It's going to take about 2 weeks to get to me so I have no way to changing the settings. I have a Denon AVR2805 remote (rc-974) and tried to program it to work with the S97. I used all 3 panasonic codes listed in the manual and none of them work with the DVD player. Is there anyway to get them to work or any other code that will work with this remote?

Your comment was very funny. Not all of us are clueless:):)


Heehee. Thanks for noticing ;)

I tried out the S97 I bought and I like it, but I'm not going to bother updating the firmware since i'm returning it. I think I saw macroblocking on Master and Commander - whatever it was it was reaaal nasty. We'll see how the next, hopefully not beat and newer (after firmware upgrade of course), unit will do...

Edit: Almost forgot - I was suprised at what a difference I saw A/B-ing 480p vs 720p. Maximus's metal helmet nose looked MUCH sharper at 720p. My g/f picked out the difference no problem. Upconversion gets an "A" with my Toshiba MT700.

hugh2-

Absolutely! It definitely WILL fit into your cabinet and your wife WILL like the color. I can guarantee it.

Bob

Errm... any idea with the control issue i posted?

Other Panasonic DVD remotes might work. Does the Denon remote have a method to scroll thorugh all remote codes to see if any might work.

Paul

Other Panasonic DVD remotes might work. Does the Denon remote have a method to scroll thorugh all remote codes to see if any might work.

Paul

Dont have any Panasonic DVD remotes... and I dont know if the remote allows that and I dont see it in the manual. I guess I will have to wait for the remote... heh.

Dont have any Panasonic DVD remotes... and I dont know if the remote allows that and I dont see it in the manual. I guess I will have to wait for the remote... heh.

Hi, have you tried the Panasonic codes from your TV. I have a JVC HD-52Z575 that have the codes for Panasonics DVD. I even got the code to open and close the tray. Hope this help.

What are the technical differences between the S97 and the S77? Also, do either of these have a reputation for macroblocking with the Pioneer 5050?

What are the technical differences between the S97 and the S77? Also, do either of these have a reputation for macroblocking with the Pioneer 5050?
Please use the search function so we don't have to answer this question every week, thanks. :rolleyes:
Mike

I posted this in the firmware thread, because I seemed to get this problem after upgrading the firmware, but this seems to be more of the better tech support thread for the S97.

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but I keep having this problem where the S97 will now auto zoom any 2.35:1 movie to 16:9 resolution and fit my TV. I find this very annoying.

I have think I have messed with pretty much every option that I can find. When I set the zoom to 16:9 standard, it just sets it to fill the screen, all the other zooms are just zoomed in more, and AUTO just picks 16:9 standard. There seems to be no option to pick no "just fit" zoom at all.

When I switch my TV type to 4:3 or 4:3 Wide, it won't auto zoom but obviously the picture is out of proportion.

I think this is a new problem since I upgraded the default firmware to 5.36 then now to 5.40, it was happening on both versions..

Anyone have a similuar problem?

I have messed with my TV's own zoom features and it doesn't seem to be any of those.

Hi All,
I just bought this combo and have real problems with the DVD player. I am using HDMI-HDMI link, and I dont believe upscaling is taking place. The indicator on the front does not light up, and I have no such menu options to choose output modes etc (576/720p/1080i) The manual says they're there but the arent.
As the projector is HD and can perform upscaling, I was happy to go back to component with progressive scan. However my S97 component output is saturated red, and other colours appear incorrectly. It is definately the player as I have hooked it up to my TV and its no better. The cable is fine also.
I have firmware ending in 360 ,can anyone suggest some answers?

There are two menu's. Check the display menu and you will find the output modes.

They are there. I agree the manual is very poor. It may be one of the most confusing manuals ever.

Check out page 14 in the manual.

I have the same combo and it is great.

This test of Cine4Home confirms the pink-issue with the previsious firmware versions of the S97. With the newer firmware the pinkissue is gone:
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/dvd-player/DVI-Vergleich/DVI-Special.htm

This test of Cine4Home confirms the pink-issue with the previsious firmware versions of the S97. With the newer firmware the pinkissue is gone:
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/dvd-player/DVI-Vergleich/DVI-Special.htm

What # firmware are we talking about here?

I posted this in the firmware thread, because I seemed to get this problem after upgrading the firmware, but this seems to be more of the better tech support thread for the S97.

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but I keep having this problem where the S97 will now auto zoom any 2.35:1 movie to 16:9 resolution and fit my TV. I find this very annoying.

I have think I have messed with pretty much every option that I can find. When I set the zoom to 16:9 standard, it just sets it to fill the screen, all the other zooms are just zoomed in more, and AUTO just picks 16:9 standard. There seems to be no option to pick no "just fit" zoom at all.

When I switch my TV type to 4:3 or 4:3 Wide, it won't auto zoom but obviously the picture is out of proportion.

I think this is a new problem since I upgraded the default firmware to 5.36 then now to 5.40, it was happening on both versions..

Anyone have a similuar problem?

I have messed with my TV's own zoom features and it doesn't seem to be any of those.

recheck all your settings, when upgrading the firmware it resets everything. I forgot this after the 541 upgrade and even posted a gripe about it. Do the basic set-up over again just once for S&G (sh1ts and giggles), and if that doesn't fix it, then tell us more about the set-up and we may be able to help.

mike

recheck all your settings, when upgrading the firmware it resets everything. I forgot this after the 541 upgrade and even posted a gripe about it. Do the basic set-up over again just once for S&G (sh1ts and giggles), and if that doesn't fix it, then tell us more about the set-up and we may be able to help.

mike

It seems to just have the problem with anamorphic DVD's. Ones "enchanced for 16x9" work fine, like the Terminator 2 Extreme edition DVD.

However my copy of Das Boot Superbit has the problem and Napoleon Dynamite, as they seem to be anamorphic.

I have a Sony KP51WS520 51" with HDMI hookup upconverting to 720P, going down to 480p didn't seem to change anything, nor 1080i.

I have reset the settings, and been through basic settings many times, I have sat there for a good hour or more changing every setting in every variation I can think of.

Sorry if i come off like an idiot here, just rtying to visualize. so in 2.35:1 movies there are no black bars on the top and bottom, like it is zoomed in? I have had some movies do this by themselves and i had to go into the zoom settings, but it seems like they didn't work for you... so if i read your first thread correctly then you have the 540 firmware?? I would give the 541 a go. what do you have to lose? only some macroblocking (i have noticed on my display, pt43lc-14). I will take a look at some of my 2.35:1 movies for ya and see if they are doing it too.

Mike

Enhanced for 16x9 and anamorphic are the same thing.

Sorry if i come off like an idiot here, just rtying to visualize. so in 2.35:1 movies there are no black bars on the top and bottom, like it is zoomed in? I have had some movies do this by themselves and i had to go into the zoom settings, but it seems like they didn't work for you... so if i read your first thread correctly then you have the 540 firmware?? I would give the 541 a go. what do you have to lose? only some macroblocking (i have noticed on my display, pt43lc-14). I will take a look at some of my 2.35:1 movies for ya and see if they are doing it too.

Mike


Yeah it is like it uses the "just to fit zoom" automatically. There are no black bars. The picture isn't scewed in the way where the images are of wrong proportion. It is just cut off with it being zoomed in.

DVD's I have had it do this so far for sure are Napoleon Dynamite, and Das Boot Superbit. I could see Napoleon Dynamite having a cheap transfer, but Das Boot Superbit I would think would be one to work better then any other DVD.

As for the difference for Enhanced for 16:9 and Anamorphic I duno, the DVD's have like 3 different things listed on the back, like 16:9 enhanced, 16:9 resolution "matted" and some just say "Anamorphic".

EDIT: I just went an checked a bunch of movies, so far it just seems that Napoleon Dynamite and Das Boot are screwy with the zoom in. I don't get why just these 2 though. The Das Boot one makes me mad since that is like a $30 DVD, and I bought it over the cheaper version just because it was Superbit. I have no other Superbit DVDs to try.

There are two menu's. Check the display menu and you will find the output modes.

They are there. I agree the manual is very poor. It may be one of the most confusing manuals ever.

Check out page 14 in the manual.

I have the same combo and it is great.


Thanks for that, I have found it. I really felt that all this type of config should be found in the setup menu.
This leads me to another point. What mode do you run your S97 and AE700 in?
I read reviews that say the projector deals better with interlaced signal that progressive. I must say that I am so far disappointed with the image quality of the projector. I keep looking for settings to change to try to fix it but I find the clarity is not that great. Any suggestions?

I am glad you found the settings change. I agree it should be in the setup menu. I am using it at 720p. I am also surprised that you are disappointed with the image quality of the projector. I would check out the tweaks thread in the under $3,500 fourm. I am using a filter and Brad Bissels's settings and I have a great picture on a 100" screen in a light controled room. You should also get a setup disk such as DVE. If you don't have it use
the THX setup on many disks including Nimo.

Sorry for the n00b question. I have a (July 2005 mfg date, fw 86H360) S97. I can't seem to get HMDI audio working. Video is fine. Whats the trick to get HDMI audio? Nothing I have done has caused the HDMI audio LED to go on. I am connecting to a Sharp 45" Aquos TV. Another odd thing, though the Aquos has an optical digital audio out, there is no Audio choice under the Digital setup menu, just iLink. The manual says there should be an Audio setup there too. For the moment I gave up and ran an optical audio out from the S97 to my receiver. That works, but still ... what gives, I wonder?

Well I am out of ideas to fix this zoom problem. I upgraded to 541 now and it didn't fix anything.

I unhooked my HDMI cable and tried component instead and that didn't change anything.

I also tried watching Conan the Destroyer earlier and instead of being zoomed in, it was acting like my TV was 4:3 or something and the black lines where actually too big on the top and the bottom, however Conan the Barbarian, which is on the same DVD just the other side worked fine.

If anyone has this DVD player and has Napoleon Dynamite, Conan the Destroyer, or Das Boot superbit, could you please test one of these out? I have no idea why it is having problems with certain DVDs.

I have the S97 and PE7700 myself...I did have the S77, but had the opportunity to change and did.

The S97 picture is much improved..colors, focus..everything. However, I notice the same as above...where the Incredibles has a smaller black bar at the top and bottom....almost like it is split between 16:9 and 2.35:1...somewhere inbetween.

I actually dont mind it as 2.35:1 is a tad bit short for my tests (I mean come on....how wide is wide...)

I will experiment and try to change, but so far unsuccessful.

Jim

I have a Panny TH-37PX50U plasma and an S97S. Has anyone using this player with a 16 x 9 display been able to figure out how to zoom the picture without a major drop in PQ? The zoom feature on the S97S is very flexible, but it is well-documented that there is quite a drop in PQ when it is enabled. I would prefer to make my TV do the zoom but I can't find any aspect settings on my TV that will zoom in on the picture far enough to eliminate the black bars and maintain correct aspect. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
TZ

Getting rid of the black bars to fill your screen is going to enlarge the portion of the picture you're seeing (and clip the sides), as far as I know, no matter how you go about it. So...there will be some drop in picture quality no matter what. How to minimize the PQ loss, I have no idea. Personally, I just deal with the black bars as I'd rather see those than lose picture quality AND what you'd see on the outer sides of the screen that get clipped.

I am ok with losing the sides of the picture. It just seems like the zoom feature on S97 degrades the quality quite a bit, even if you zoom the picture just slightly. Seems like my TV would do a better job, but there doesn't seem to be an appropriate mode.

Only reason I want to get rid of the bars is that I have a plasma and movie watching makes up about 75% of my viewing. So I want to avoid any possiblity of burn-in if possible.

TZ

Make sure your tv is set to 16 x 9.

I found the auto zoom fill up the 16x9 was only with movies that where filmed in 1.85:1, There still should be tiny black lines but it just auto zooms when a movie is 1.85:1, and when it zooms you get a loss in picture quality.

I found the auto zoom fill up the 16x9 was only with movies that where filmed in 1.85:1, There still should be tiny black lines but it just auto zooms when a movie is 1.85:1, and when it zooms you get a loss in picture quality.

Kebie,

I have noticed that too. Black lines of about 3-4 pixels thick on my 37" plasma. In this instance I let my TV do the stretching. The TV seems to handle the stretching of that just fine and it doesn't look unnatural. Of course, I have to drop down to 480P to change the aspect on the TV, since it won't let me adjust aspect on HD signals.

TZ

for those with aspect ratio issues (e.g. 2.35 being zoomed to full screen). I had a similar problem with my S97 and Pe7700....it was a setting on the projector causing it, not the dvd player.

Jim

for those with aspect ratio issues (e.g. 2.35 being zoomed to full screen). I had a similar problem with my S97 and Pe7700....it was a setting on the projector causing it, not the dvd player.

Jim

Agreed, if the s97 is set to widescreen in the basic setup, there should be no problems. double check the display menu for 16:9 standard and that should do it. It doesn't sound like the s97 is at fault. I will borrow my brothers copy of napolean dynamite and watch it (funny movie "does it have talons" HA!) and report.

Mike

Does anyone here have another Panny DVD player (such as S47 or F87) as well as the S97? If so, is it possible to change the remote code of the Panny S97 or the other Panny player so that one doesn't respond to the other's remote control, they don't both respond, and they can be operated independently of each other?

1:No
2: No

Hey Fellas!

Got a unit dated 6/05 this past tuesday, so far it's good but I've not tweeked it yet... just wanna let anyone interested know... if you live in the LA/OC area... Fry's has a load of this bad boys at $299.00.... I got it there cuz I hate dealing with the shippin' thing(OPPO,Bravo) well u get the picture....

I wanna thank all you fellow "Freaks"(and I mean that in the most loving way) for all the posted info.

catcha later. Ed.

I just got my S97 from Vanns (July 2005 build) and hooked it up to my HS20 pj via HDMI. I put in the settings on the first post in this thread and I have to say I'm underwhelmed by the picture. The colors seem pretty muted. I've got it going at 1080i and 4:4:4, but everything just looks dusty to me.

My HDMI cable is about 30' long, is nice and thick and has gold ends. I see no sparklies or screen jitter. Everything is great except the depth of the colors.

I was running a Toshiba DVD player over component and the colors were much better. I just can't believe this DVD player is setup right. Something must be going on but I wanted to see if anyone had any ideas.

Also, maybe it's just me but the sound seems to be better, almost like more separation perhaps.

My Pronto Neo can't seem to learn the IR codes so I found another Panasonic DVD player on remotecentral.com and all it's codes seemed to work fine. No discrete codes for on/off though :(

Also, I must say I do like the drawer, construction, and the blue light. Although the light does make it a little hard to see by, but it looks super cool.

Now if I can just get that picture to look good.

Moving Target -

I just received my S97 from Vanns as well, and I also picked up a Denon 1920 locally. I have to say my initial quick look (after a quick avia calibration) seemed to show that the denon was looking better by a bit - and some in the vividness of colors as you said. I have critical viewing and more calibration (color, tint) to do this weekend, so I am not making any quick judgments, but I am very curious how this will turn out.

guys, when you calibrate....do you utilize the dvd player settings or the monitor/projector settings?

Seems the monitor/projector makes sense given it would cover multiple sources...unless the same calibration would not apply to multple sources.

e.g. if I have a HDTV cable box, it might not want to be calibrated the same.

what is the norm?

thx
Jim

I just got my S97 from Vanns (July 2005 build) and hooked it up to my HS20 pj via HDMI. I put in the settings on the first post in this thread and I have to say I'm underwhelmed by the picture. The colors seem pretty muted. I've got it going at 1080i and 4:4:4, but everything just looks dusty to me.

My HDMI cable is about 30' long, is nice and thick and has gold ends. I see no sparklies or screen jitter. Everything is great except the depth of the colors.

I was running a Toshiba DVD player over component and the colors were much better. I just can't believe this DVD player is setup right. Something must be going on but I wanted to see if anyone had any ideas.

Also, maybe it's just me but the sound seems to be better, almost like more separation perhaps.

My Pronto Neo can't seem to learn the IR codes so I found another Panasonic DVD player on remotecentral.com and all it's codes seemed to work fine. No discrete codes for on/off though :(

Also, I must say I do like the drawer, construction, and the blue light. Although the light does make it a little hard to see by, but it looks super cool.

Now if I can just get that picture to look good.

Try using color space "RGB" and setting it to "enhanced" in the HDMI set-up menus. just tricky to find. It makes the colors brighter without affecting it in a bad way. if i have it set to standaard, i too get the "dusty" image. It's all about playing with it until it is just right.

Mike

p.s. those "suggested settings are ok for the writers tv set, but i found what works best for mine. all sets are different and it is best to try a few things.