Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
First digit is luminance: Y.
Second digit R-Y. (Red)
Third digit B-Y. (Blue)

4:4:4 Color information is sampled at the same rate as luminance.
4:2:2 Color information is sampled at half the rate as the luminance.

4:4:4 would provide more color information, in theory, it should be better. 4:4:4 is great for HD.

Paul,

Which color space setting did you use for the HDMI -> DVI test, RGB or one of the YCbCr's? Can it tell that you're hooking it up to a DVI device and default itself to RGB?

Thanks!

Well, if some people have it or are getting it shortly, Panasonic is selling it . . . .SO WHERE CAN I BUY ONE IN THE NEW YORK CITY AREA?!

Glad you have your's ritewinger!

I think you'll like the picture. Out of the box

Settings menu:
Video Tab: TV Aspect: configured for 16:9 screen (4:3 default)
Video Tab: Black Level Control: Darker

Picture menu:
1. Picture mode: "User" -- Brightness +1 or 0
2. Video Output Mode -- whatever the screen will support

That should get you going!

Paul

Jeeper,

When using HDMI->DVI to the Hitachi plasma only RGB was able to be selected. It "knows". It also knows if 720p isn't a valid resolution for the display.

Paul

ritewinger,

Do you have other Panasonic units so you can use it to compare against?
---

Paul, does the Progressive lock itself on Darker for Black Level control reguardless of the Black Level control setting? I guess ritewinger can find that out because it might be the same as the RP/XP series which locked on darker on progressive reguardless.

Originally posted by ritewinger
With all the excitement here I'm debating opening this thing and just listing it on ebay!! I'll give you guys a novice's opinion shortly... I just want an outstanding picture with excellent sound!

Excitement - yes, gotta-have-it-now-for-a-$300-DVD-player-on-e-Bay euphoria - no. Just open it, enjoy it, and give us your novice opinion.

ahro,

I don't know. Check the Panasonic web site and search for local dealers and start calling. The only dealer locally to me in Texas that even indicated that they were going to carry it is Ulimate Electronics. I thought I had read that this player might be a "limited distribution" item. It might not be everywhere.

Paul

Sango, I'll have to check and see.

In the manual, the black level control is indicated for Component output.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Jeeper,

When using HDMI->DVI to the Hitachi plasma only RGB was able to be selected. It "knows". It also knows if 720p isn't a valid resolution for the display.

Paul DVI is only RGB. Besides the new Pio plasma media boxes, it would be interesting to know what displays accepted either of the YCbCr formats via HDMI. I'm not positive the new Pio plasma media boxes accept it, either.

larry

The Panasonic TC-22LH1 allowed for the selection of RBG, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4 via HDMI-HDMI.

Paul

Thanks Paul for the tip! I don't know if you read earlier but I am using it on a Panny TH-50PX25U/P plasma and I have read about the MB issues, especially with the Panny's. Hopefully it will be like DLP "Rainbows" and I will not notice it.

Ritewinger,

You're welcome! I hope the player works out for you. Any questions, just ask!

It's kind of amazing to have two cables: power and HDMI. That's it.

Paul

Originally posted by Cricricri
Can't wait from someone to try it with a front projection device

Me too, Would like to know how it looks with 120 inches screen.
Now that Paul mentions it is no problem using HDMI-DVI cable, does anyone here uses the HDMI-DVI connector? Is there a problem using a connector? How much does the connector cost and where can I get one?
Does it come in BLACK color or just SILVER? Thanks.

tvuong,

Silver only.

There are stores that sell the HDMI to DVI cable, such as bettercables.com, bluejeanscable.com, and ramelectronics.net. I already bought mine from bluejeanscable.com more than a week ago, and I intend to use it to connect the DVD-S97 to my Samsung 22" LCD TV.

Remember, if you want to buy the DVD-S97, you need to pre-order as I did! The more people are interested in this unit, the more difficult to find a store that will stock it. Late-comers will have to wait until stores have more in stock.

Paul or anyone: Is the Panasonic DVD S97S the same as the Sony model DVP NS975V or the Denon DVD 755S . The Sony has the HDMI and Denon has only DVI both up scale to 720 p and 1080i. Does anyone know if they are the same or equal to the new Panasonic S97S?????

Originally posted by tvuong
Me too, Would like to know how it looks with 120 inches screen.
Now that Paul mentions it is no problem using HDMI-DVI cable, does anyone here uses the HDMI-DVI connector? Is there a problem using a connector? How much does the connector cost and where can I get one?
Does it come in BLACK color or just SILVER? Thanks.

Best Buy just got some in and I bought one before I have clue as to where to purchase the player. Be careful to get HDMI>DVI adapter rather than the other way around; they look similar. BB has a Monster adapter for $29.95

My S97 arrived from OneCall today also. Supposedly I was their first pre-order. I'll be trying it over the weekend at my cabin on a Panny TH-37PD25U plasma. I'll then bring it home and on Monday will connect to my BenQ 8700 projector via HDMI to DVI connection. I'll let you know how it looks on my 106" diagonal screen. I look forward to checking it out! I previously ran a Bravo D1, but gave up on it due to the widely documented operational issues. I'm looking forward to getting an upsampling player back into my system :)

Tom

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
ahro,

I don't know. Check the Panasonic web site and search for local dealers and start calling. The only dealer locally to me in Texas that even indicated that they were going to carry it is Ulimate Electronics. I thought I had read that this player might be a "limited distribution" item. It might not be everywhere.

Paul

Thanks, Paul, I'll try it. I hope it's not limited distrubution. Somone (I hope) eill carry it in Manhattan.

Hi Paul,

I know what macroblocking is...my question was more about how big of a PROBLEM you consider it to be based on what you have viewed thus far. How often (on average) are you noticing macroblocking issues? How distracting is it for you? How much does it interfere with your enjoyment of the source material? On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being irrelevant and 10 being an absolute deal breaker, where would you rate the macroblocking you've viewed so far on the S97?

Hope that clarifies my question, and thanks again for your feedback!

Question: I have a Sony, 3 years old, and never any problems with it and it did not cost very much. These days, we seem to have problems with more expensive DVD players..yes?

Originally posted by mangopony
Question: I have a Sony, 3 years old, and never any problems with it and it did not cost very much. These days, we seem to have problems with more expensive DVD players..yes?

I'm glad your 3 year old Sony player works so well for you. I'm quite happy with the DVD-S97S as it works so well, perhaps this is a beginning of a trend.

At $269 delivered, perhaps, I shall purchase a vew Panasonic S97S. Alll my equipment is black and I am wondering if there will be any black units in the near future? I can not see why some people spend a $1000 on a DVD player. I am not convinced they get a better picture than I do. In these threads herein they are always talking about the problems they are having. Yet, as stated, I have had zero probelms for over 3 years. I have my name on list and One Call will let me know when more units are received.

Maybe someone would tell me..why run a HDMI cable if you are using video display for video only? I would imagine..keeping it simple..and running S-Video or component would do just as well. Why 'mix' audio and video if you do not need to?

Xerin,

It is certainly not a deal-breaker for me. It isn't distracting to me. I have to look for it in scene locations where I think it will appear. Otherwise, it isn't noticed very often. It doesn't annoy me like a bad pixel would on a LCD or Plasma. It does not interfere with my enjoyment of movies. As macroblocking has become a "lightning rod" of late its presence was reported. The macroblocking reminds me of the Denon DVD-1910 in character.

Paul

Mangopony,

Using the HDMI cable is the only way to take advantage of the 720p and 1080i upconversion -- one of the major reasons for acquiring the player.

If I did not use HDMI I would have to have separate audio and video cables. My player was supplied with an HDMI cable, why not use it?

Paul

Paul,

Tonight can you test using component?

Thanks

Just to clarify... there is no problem running optical/coax to a receiver for 5.1/DTS/etc. while running HDMI into the TV, right? This 2.0 sound only is just not true, correct?

Sango,

I plan on it.

Paul

Paul: If you already have the cable, I say, then use it, of course. The 3 year old Sony is progressive scan. Is it doing what the newer Panasonic s97s is doing? I have a 7UY Panasonic (rather, it is being shipping) and it does not have a HDMI connect as shipped. And, if a DVD is 480I, how much better can you make it? Again, it is my idea to keep everything simple and not try to run the video (and audio) signal thru so many connections, etc. But, I know, these days I am out voted on this idea. But, hey, being in the minority is not so bad. To me, I get very good video and the very best in audio.

Mangopony,

As it stands, DVDs are all glorified 480i. That's why I wouldn't spend lots of money on a standard definition DVD player ($300 is a lot for some, nothing to others). I have a D-VHS High-Definition recorder that can outperform this or any other DVD player. HD DVD players will be around in a few years.

Until then what can be done with 480i? One step would be to make it a progressive (de-interlaced) signal. To do so properly is not an easy task. There are many progressive tests that DVD players routinely fail. Does passing or failing these test make a difference to one's own viewing? Only the viewer can decide.

What else can be done with the signal? Today's High Definition and Extended Definition TV's are designed to accept 480i/480p/720p (most)/1080i. If the TV doesn't perform a good job at converting a 480i signal to the display's native format then the task can be performed at the DVD player. That's one of the reasons for getting an upconverting player.

My Panasonic TV does a mediocre job of converting 480i and 480p signals to the display's native rate. However, it does a superlative job of processing 1080i signals. My best course of action would be to supply a 1080i signal to the TV every time. Thus, the reason for acquiring a DVD player that supplies a 1080i signal. The Panasonic DVD-S97S supplies such a signal.

Best regards,

Paul

I just wanted to thank you Paul. You've sold me, and I placed an order with one call. I can't find anyone else that has it in stock!

Paul: I begin to understand. So, bottom line, the Panasonic s97s may be the way to go for the next several years. I will have by next week a new Panasonic ED 7UY plasma. I am not debating you, Paul, but, still, it seems the ED display would be ideal for the 480I signal from the DVD player without upconverting the signal. But, I will readily admit, all this is somewhat new to me so will take your word for it. Bottom line, and to rap this up, to buy the new s97s would be a good move on my part, yes? And I do thank you for the valuable information. Have a great evening and week-end.

Got mine today too. Connection was a snap (the HDMI cable is about 6 feet for those who are still wondering). However, the aspect ratio settings were a little confusing, but I haven't really cracked the manual yet. Still trying to finish up stuff on my "day job."

There have been several threads lately regarding the merits of using an upconverting player with an ED TV. If the Panasonic TV has a superior deinterlacing circuit, the benefits of an upconverting player may be non-existant to minor. The TV might work best with a 480i signal! I don't have a Panasonic plasma but a Hitachi HD plasma and a Panasonic HD LCD so I can't describe what benefits, if any, you may see on the Panasonic plasma.

Thank you for your questions and have a great weekend as well!

<As it stands, DVDs are all glorified 480i. That's why I wouldn't spend lots of money on a standard definition DVD player ($300 is a lot for some, nothing to others). I have a D-VHS High-Definition recorder that can outperform this or any other DVD player. HD DVD players will be around in a few years.

Until then what can be done with 480i? One step would be to make it a progressive (de-interlaced) signal. To do so properly is not an easy task. There are many progressive tests that DVD players routinely fail. Does passing or failing these test make a difference to one's own viewing? Only the viewer can decide.

What else can be done with the signal? Today's High Definition and Extended Definition TV's are designed to accept 480i/480p/720p (most)/1080i. If the TV doesn't perform a good job at converting a 480i signal to the display's native format then the task can be performed at the DVD player. That's one of the reasons for getting an upconverting player.

My Panasonic TV does a mediocre job of converting 480i and 480p signals to the display's native rate. However, it does a superlative job of processing 1080i signals. My best course of action would be to supply a 1080i signal to the TV every time. Thus, the reason for acquiring a DVD player that supplies a 1080i signal. The Panasonic DVD-S97S supplies such a signal.>

............................................................ .......................................................

I completely agree Paul ! That's why I received mine from OneCall today and plan on using it as a substitute until the Sony Blu-Ray becomes available (projected to be around Jan.2006).

Now if Sony would just get me the Qualia 006 by the Super Bowl - I'll be fine.

All right Kaysadea!

Let us know what you think! The S97S is just *crammed* with options: setting gui brightness, subtitle postion and brightness, variable zoom, variable speed video *playback* w/audio. It can save various settings to be recalled. Mind boggling -- and I haven't even touched audio!

Paul

Speaking of "day jobs", I'm a Radiologist, hence Radsman. I'm curious, Paul, what is your day job in light of your apparent proclivity for the technical aspects of electronics?

Penton-man! Another user! It'll be nice to get some additonal feedback from other viewers.

Is everyone's unit a September build?

Paul

Radsman,

Software engineer by day.

Restore radios and have fun with electronics at night.

Paul

Paul !
That's a roger for me....Manufactured "September 2004"

Geez Radsman...
I guess you should have become a software engineer.......rather than going the Radiologist/Dermatologist/Opthalmologist tract.......but in hindsight I guess it was better than OB/Ortho/ or Neurosurg (esp. in Florida)

Those boys have NO time to play with their toys !

Thanks Paul, that's what I was hoping to hear. Sounds like a leading contender for that price range right now.

Thanks for all the good info Paul. I guess I got in the feeding frenzy too and have ordered and S97 from OneCall. I was hoping to find one in a B&M; but I am just sick of talking to all these salesman that don't have the slightest idea about what an S97 is. Hopefully, I will get mine from the OneCall's next batch rather than the Dec one. My fingers are crossed.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
All right Kaysadea!

Let us know what you think! The S97S is just *crammed* with options: setting gui brightness, subtitle postion and brightness, variable zoom, variable speed video *playback* w/audio. It can save various settings to be recalled. Mind boggling -- and I haven't even touched audio!

Paul

The one thing I can contribute at this point is that going through the SETUP menu is a must if you have anything other than a regular TV. Be prepared to know your "Frequency of Operation."

Ask yourself: What would my Mother do in response to that question?

The Macroblocking issue on this player seems to be downplayed or accepeted while at the same time Denon is flamed (rightfully so) for this same problem. Seems like a double-standard to me.

Originally posted by Lodey
Just to clarify... there is no problem running optical/coax to a receiver for 5.1/DTS/etc. while running HDMI into the TV, right? This 2.0 sound only is just not true, correct?

Anyone care to answer Lodey's question.

I intend to run HDMI to a projector and 5.1 through coaxial into a Denon Receiver

Reading the Denon manual for the 2910 does not provide any clear answer to whether or not this is possible.

Has anyone got this kind of setup working ?

Originally posted by Axatax
The Macroblocking issue on this player seems to be downplayed or accepeted while at the same time Denon is flamed (rightfully so) for this same problem. Seems like a double-standard to me.

Denons cost a lot more than the Panny. Besides, not that many people have this player yet. Big issue or not is very subjective. Personally, if I spent $1,000+ on a DVD player, it better be flawless or I'll be really pissed.

jayfsee007,

You can download the manual for DVD-S97S from Panasonic's web site and check for yourself. Last time I read the downloaded manual, it says, if you want to get digital audio from coax or optical out, you need to disbale the HDMI sound out in setup.

Originally posted by robert dawson
Paul or anyone: Is the Panasonic DVD S97S the same as the Sony model DVP NS975V or the Denon DVD 755S . The Sony has the HDMI and Denon has only DVI both up scale to 720 p and 1080i. Does anyone know if they are the same or equal to the new Panasonic S97S?????

Robert...

The 2910 and 3910 have BOTH the HDMI and DVI outputs.

Panasonic DVD-S97S: HDMI-yes DVI-no

Sony DVP-NS975V: HDMI-yes DVI-no

Denon DVD-1910(755S): HDMI-no DVI-yes

Denon DVD-2910: HDMI-yes DVI-yes

Denon DVD-3910: HDMI-yes DVI-yes

I presently have no Denon DVD player to directly compare picture quality with the Panasonic.

Well I set everything up tonight and watched a bit of Lord of the Rings and this player really crushes any other player I've had. I returned the Toshiba upconverting player for this one and I had the Samsung 841 prior to that and this thing is killer compared to them. The manual is not the smoothest book in the world, but I've basically got everything the way I'd like. I don't see a huge difference when watching the upconverted signal versus the standard, but then I only watched part of one movie.

Paul, you mention only using one cable. I turned my HDMI audio off and used the digital coax into my Yamaha RXV1500. Is it possible to send the audio to the tv through HDMI and then have the tv output the sound through the optical out to the receiver? That is probably a dumb question but that is how I have done it with all these players I've had in the past month.

Someone asked if I had another Panasonic DVD player to compare this to. I do not. I have an older Sony that worked great, even after the kids have run it into the ground. Also have an older Toshiba that the kids now have.

BTW, this player also has an immense amount of options as noted previously. So far I like everything about it and I was able to open/close the tray using the pre-programmed codes in my URC200. I even like the blue glow from the tray upon startup. So far it seems like it turns off after a while.

Which HDMI to DVI cable/adaptor r u using and for what price. Post or PM me please. I have DVI cable which I might have to sell off, if HDMI-DVI cable is better than using the adaptor.

Originally posted by ritewinger

Someone asked if I had another Panasonic DVD player to compare this to. I do not.


Aww that was mean =( It's Sango! =)

Hi Paul,

Thanks for bringing my attention to this thread (from the one in Plasma forum).

I think I have the same Hitachi ALIS plasma as you, I am curious how exactly this (and other players you've had) mate with the plasma? Is the macroblocking visible, at all modes or does it go away at say 1080i? Finally which setting did you like the best with that particular display, 480p/720p/1080i (considering that the native res. of the panel is 1024x1024)? When you do test the Component out, I would be interesting how that goes with the plasma as well?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but really appreciate your responses...

thanks,

regards,

Ritesh

Paul, could you please tell, do you hear any mechanical noise from your player? Or is it quiet? Any vibrations of the case? Thanks.

BTW, the idea of placing all important info on the first page is great. No, I'd say it's REALLY GREAT! Now everybody can find everything they need without squeezing their way through several doezens of pages.

Could someone tell me the exact height of this unit? The manual says 2 5/16, but I need to make sure that this height includes the feet. If that is the total height not just the body, this unit will solve a major problem I am having in my stand.

First Thanks Paul for the way you set up this thread !!

It looks like the way I set up my software tests.....in a matrix !!!

Now, thanks for all the people here in this forum, this is just a amazing information value !!!

I'd like to know if anyone tested with DVD+R media.....please let us know !!

Thanks

Mario

"this is just a amazing information"

Ok, just to correct that... : this is just an amazing information ...

..just amazing that there are problems, such as microblocking, etc. with the present 'good' players and no such probelms on my old Sony of 3-4 years ago. My player went thru a DVD last eve and everything was perfect to my critical eye. I wonder why, in some aspects, we have taken a step backward in DVD player operation? And, these days, the prices are higher than what I paid. Wish someone could compare this new s97 with the new Sony at about same price.

Originally posted by Tom Blake
My S97 arrived from OneCall today also. Supposedly I was their first pre-order. I'll be trying it over the weekend at my cabin on a Panny TH-37PD25U plasma. I'll then bring it home and on Monday will connect to my BenQ 8700 projector via HDMI to DVI connection. I'll let you know how it looks on my 106" diagonal screen. I look forward to checking it out! I previously ran a Bravo D1, but gave up on it due to the widely documented operational issues. I'm looking forward to getting an upsampling player back into my system :)

Tom

Tom, Thank you. We'll be waiting!

Originally posted by mangopony
..just amazing that there are problems, such as microblocking, etc. with the present 'good' players and no such probelms on my old Sony of 3-4 years ago. My player went thru a DVD last eve and everything was perfect to my critical eye. I wonder why, in some aspects, we have taken a step backward in DVD player operation? And, these days, the prices are higher than what I paid. Wish someone could compare this new s97 with the new Sony at about same price.

Mangopony,

I think this is about the third time you have posted virtually the same post wondering about problems and stating that the "old Sony" from 3-4 years ago is problem free and we "have taken a step back". What model is it? Is this model posted in the "Secrets of Home Video" shootout? If so, then have a look and then you may see what tests it passed or failed.

Here's a link to make it easy:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=0&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0

Give us some of your thoughts on your questions, or better yet, open a thread and post the questions.

I happy that you like your player. Although it might be hard to understand we like discussing problems and possible remedies. It's fun. When we know the model of your player perhaps we can then have the fun of criticizing its flaws -- in another thread. ;)

Paul

Sango,

I'm working on component output right now.

Paul

Paul: Not so much to do with my 'old' Sony player as it is with a number of problems people seem to be having these days with newer players. That was my point. I believe, at times, perhaps we are reaching for more video perfection than is just not to be found in 480I DVDs. Do not get me wrong for I enjoy watching DVD movies very much and am satisfied with the PQ. It is just that others seem to be having problems and not enjoying their viewing. At times, it just seems, maybe, some people are more interested in their equipment than they are in the movies they are watching. I have appreciated your comments, so far, on the s97s by the way. I do understand each of us is different in this world and have our own particular pursuits. And this is the way it should be. I am just expressing my views. I can not express any opinion on the s97s because I do not own one at this time and can not buy one at this time.

MVPinBoynton -

Total height (including the cute little feet ) is measured by calipers as 59 mm. errrrr about 2 and 19/64 " in American.

Thank Paul for the update. Also if you have the time, sneak in the firmware version info too! =)

Paul,
Thank you for all the work you've done for us. Those are very very good info you've reported.
One question and I have asked this before in other thread: Do you see an improvement in picture quality going from a non-upconverting player via component to a upconverting one via HDMI/DVI? Is it obvious that an upconverting player in general or specifically the S97 gives a better picture or you have to look for it to see an improvement? I know you don't have an RP91 to compare it to, but that what I have right now and its picture is great via component(I only uses 480i out from the RP91 to my Dwin TV3 front projector, cuz it gives a better picture than using 480p from the RP91).
Just want to get your thought on this before dumping my beloved RP91. Thanks again.

Originally posted by tvuong
Paul,
Thank you for all the work you've done for us. Those are very very good info you've reported.
One question and I have asked this before in other thread: Do you see an improvement in picture quality going from a non-up-converting player via component to a up-converting one via HDMI/DVI? Is it obvious that an upconverting player in general or specifically the S97 gives a better picture or you have to look for it to see an improvement? I know you don't have an RP91 to compare it to, but that what I have right now and its picture is great via component(I only uses 480i out from the RP91 to my Dwin TV3 front projector, cuz it gives a better picture than using 480p from the RP91).
Just want to get your thought on this before dumping my beloved RP91. Thanks again.

tvuong -

A very good question, and I hope Paul may be able to answer that the PQ is more than just incrementally better. I have the RP82 with Panny 500 PJ and the RP82 picture is terrific. I also bought a Denon 1910, and the PQ is only slightly better (if at all on some discs) over DVI than the RP82 component, plus there's no control over aspect ratio over DVI and I find the Denon color saturation over DVI very poor and no way to adjust it. --- so I'm very interested to hear a comparison of PQ over component and HDMI on the S97.

BTW, I've done a lot of phone calls today and the unit is not to be found anywhere. The closest is OneCall and they have 26 backorders and can't even guarantee the December date, depending on what Panasonic ships them. The Panasonic website now has it listed for purchase in three weeks, but I want it NOW! :D

Hello,

Another update to main page.

Component results posted.

Another picture anomaly noted: Via HDMI there appears to be a slight reddish/pinkish cast to gray not seen via component. Trying to track that down. Wasn't noticed until I switched back and forth between HDMI and Component.

Tried to capture it with a camera but couldn't get it to look right.

Paul

Wow ! Components 480i is SO good ??? That would be the perfect mate for my 4805 then !
How does it compare subjectively to the xp50 at 480i ?
HDMI at 480p Vs components 480i: what are the differences in sharpness and details ?

ahro,

HDMI vs. Component is a discussion onto itself -- many people see some sort of improvement, some don't. I see a big difference because my Panasonic TV does a better job with a 1080i signal. Other people, with other sensitivities, may see something different.

Paul

Thanks for the post Paul. I guess you couldn't determine if it's using Faroudja or not as you indicated?

EDIT: Now we just need the comparison vs. the XP50/30 that you have. =(

Paul: don't forget to erase this line in the component section

"Color accuracy via 720p/1080i (green depression): Appears accurate, no green depression noted."

Some would think it upconverts via component.

Hey Sango, how many times did you press the refresh button in the last 30 minutes ?! Mine is on fire !

Originally posted by Cricricri
Paul: don't forget to erase this line in the component section

"Color accuracy via 720p/1080i (green depression): Appears accurate, no green depression noted."

Some would think it upconverts via component.

CriCriCri,

Thanks. It's corrected. That what happens when "block copying" is done. Just missed.

Paul

Sango,

No, I haven't determined the deinterlacer for 480p component. It seems to behave a lot like the HDMI/Faroudja but can't tell for sure. It does seem to be motion adaptive and do a pretty good job.

Paul

Originally posted by ahro
Best Buy just got some in and I bought one before I have clue as to where to purchase the player. Be careful to get HDMI>DVI adapter rather than the other way around; they look similar. BB has a Monster adapter for $29.95

AHRO, I too live in NY, Albany. Where is the best buy that you found the S97? Thanks.

Never mind, after reading your post closer I see you bought the cable, not the player.

Paul, in order to refrain my compulsive reading, could you tell when you'll be ready to do the xp50 shootout with the S97 at 480p and 480i ? This afternoon ? Tonight ? Tomorrow ?

FYI - Panasonic's site just updated their availability:

"Available in 3 weeks "

CriCriCri,

I have not done it yet. Tonight at the earliest. Based upon memory, I think the two will closely compare at component. I'm pretty impressed with the 'S97S component. It should make for a very fine 480i component player.

Paul

i gotta question, how sensitive is this player to vibration, namely from subwoofers and such?

I have a pioneer dvd player from like 6 or so years ago, and it skips everytime the PB2+ hits hard, even from 20+ feet away. I dont know if you can, but i'd sure appreciate if you would test its "skipping resistance" or lack thereof... thanks

I got my unit set up last night and tested it wit my HT1000 projector.

After calibrating it with Avia, the PQ is excellent - at least equal to my HTPC with the leading DVD software player. I use the HDMI output, converted to DVI (I bought an Audioquest adapter last night at Best Buys - in the Magnolia Audio store - for $35 - it's smaller and looks better than the Monster one).

Some oddities - when I first powered up, I only got half a picture (the left half) on my projector. I had to change from 480p to 1080i or 720p in Setup to get a full picture.

There are a lot of options for sure. The menu layout is sometimes confusing. For example, the player has a Gamma adjustment. But, to reach it, you have to hit Display and then work down some menus, select User and then the picture adjustment shows up on that menu. Most other DVD players use the display button strictly as a display, so this can throw off some.

The remote is much better to me than my older RP82 (sorry, can't do comparisons as I sold it).

I watched Star Wars last night. On the THX Optimizer, the resolution chart was better than with my HTPC and my Bravo D1. Even if the D1 is close, it is being retired for unreliable operation.

Paul - thanks for all your testing. You saved me a lot of time setting up.

More testing tonight...

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hello,

Another update to main page.

Component results posted.

Another picture anomaly noted: Via HDMI there appears to be a slight reddish/pinkish cast to gray not seen via component. Trying to track that down. Wasn't noticed until I switched back and forth between HDMI and Component.

Tried to capture it with a camera but couldn't get it to look right.

Paul

Where's this main page you're refering to Paul?

thanks.

Originally posted by Rich4av
I use the HDMI output, converted to DVI (I bought an Audioquest adapter last night at Best Buys - in the Magnolia Audio store - for $35 - it's smaller and looks better than the Monster one).
More testing tonight...
Rich,
Is your adapter (HDMI-->DVI?)connected at the projector end using a long HDMI cable or are you using long run DVI cable with the adapter being at the S97 end? Thanks, and don't forget to give us more detail of your finding. By the way, I did not know that BB carry Audioquest stuff.

Paul :

I have a Sony rptv 57 "57WS500 will the Panasonic Dvd S97S work with this tv or should I get the Sony 975???????? I have a dreamx now over component that up scales to 720p and 1080i. But don't use it as much as I as I would like because a an adaptor for USA . I have been using my HK 101 , and have XP30, Denon 1600, and too many that collect dust. I want a newer HDMI player ,,,,,,so what would you recommend??????

Could someone advice me or should I buy another tv???$$$$???:(

tvuong, my adapter is actually connected to a Zektor DVI switcher, not the pj. I do have some issues with the long DVI cable run (30 ft) at 720p but I know that it's a cable length issue for DVI. I will be getting a 1m DVI-HDMI cable to reduce the total cable length (the Pany HDMI cable is 6 ft and I only need 3).

Paul, I recalled that the RP82 has two "User" settings: "U 1" and "U 2." "N" of course is "Normal." What User setting did you use on the DVD-S97?

I just looked at JK A/V internal board pic of the S97S and compared it to my RP82/XP50/CP72 close up board pics and the S97S does indeed have a different MPEG Decoder number then the RP82/CP72/XP50. The MPEG decoder part number of the RP82/XP50/CP72 is MN677531KA while JK A/V internal pic definitely shows a different number even though I can't quite make out what the whole number is. Maybe Panasonic improved on the superior RP91 MPEG decoder they used in the RP82/CP72/XP50's!!! JK A/V can you please post the MPEG decoder part number.

I have this player hooked up to a Sony 34XBR960 tv. When using HDMI 1080i and the 'RGB' Color Space option, it does not pass BTB, at least not with my set. If I set it to YCbCr (4:4:4) or YCbCr (4:2:2) it works great. This is actually pretty easy to confirm, if you have a THX Optimizer disc, go to the Brightness Set-Up section, and select 'RGB' you'll see the whole THX logo disappear.

While checking the Brightness also with the THX optimizer, I noticed some 'bleed over' on the lower right hand box. I addressed this by setting Contrast to -2 or -3.

Geometry wise, the picture is not dead center is slight shifted to the left. Unfortunately this player doesn't have adjustments for that like the previous Panny models that had Horizontal and Vertical Pos picture adjustments.

BTW, my benchmark for this is my Panasonic RP82. So, the only variable I'm changing as I see this is the DVD player.

Originally posted by tvuong
Just want to get your thought on this before dumping my beloved RP91. Thanks again.

My RP-91 has been replaced by the Denon 2910.

I find the DVI 720p & 1080i are superior in resolution, color and less noise.

The other bonus, the 2910 has a 480i component signal atleast equal to thr RP-91, which says alot. Being able to run a 480i on some poorer films is a benefit, because the extra gamma and sharpness controls come into play.

The RP-91 is a great player. If the S97 offers atleast equal quality 480i and superior quality HDMI/DVI, it is definitely a winner.

Originally posted by Rich4av
I got my unit set up last night and tested it wit my HT1000 projector.

I have had a similar experience with the 2910 on my HT1000.

Maybe we could swap HT1000 settings? I would like to see your adjustments.

silvertone
And if you raise the Brightness control, will the THX logo reappear? If not, the HDMI chip is where the YCbCr to RGB conversion is done -- and the HDMI bug is present.

I'd feel more comfortable if a real calibration disc was used, such as Video Essentials, Digital Video Essentials or Avia Pro. The THX Optimizer patterns are flawed. There's a thread somewhere on AVS where someone captured the below black shadows on a certain THX disc and found that they were actually above digital 16 (below black is <16). The kicker is that other THX discs with the Optimizer test patterns may be correct! How's that for quality control?


Paul
Didn't you test below black capability? Was it via HDMI-DVI or HDMI-HDMI? The clipping test for the HDMI bug is only valid for an HDMI-DVI connection. Title 12 Chapter 2 on Digital Video Essentials is the easiest test to use: there should be 3 vertical bars on each side of the white rectangular box in the middle (you may have to raise the Brightness control a bit to see all 3).

Joe,

Have a look at the first post.

Paul

Yes, +1 allows for below black to be displayed.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Joe Murphy Jr
silvertone
And if you raise the Brightness control, will the THX logo reappear? If not, the HDMI chip is where the YCbCr to RGB conversion is done -- and the HDMI bug is present.

I'd feel more comfortable if a real calibration disc was used, such as Video Essentials, Digital Video Essentials or Avia Pro. The THX Optimizer patterns are flawed. There's a thread somewhere on AVS where someone captured the below black shadows on a certain THX disc and found that they were actually above digital 16 (below black is <16). The kicker is that other THX discs with the Optimizer test patterns may be correct! How's that for quality control?


Paul
Didn't you test below black capability? Was it via HDMI-DVI or HDMI-HDMI? The clipping test for the HDMI bug is only valid for an HDMI-DVI connection. Title 12 Chapter 2 on Digital Video Essentials is the easiest test to use: there should be 3 vertical bars on each side of the white rectangular box in the middle (you may have to raise the Brightness control a bit to see all 3).


Joe, you are correct. If I raise the Brightness(on the dvd player) the logo reappears so I guess this is a non-issue (provided people are aware of that). I've been also using the Sound and Vision calibration software and I saw the same thing when choosing RGB, I'll try to get Avia soon. The connection I have is HDMI to HDMI and tv set has been professionally calibrated.


BTW, I have been going through my DVD collection most of the day and I'm yet to see macroblocking, maybe my set is doing a good job masking the problem or I need new glasses. Some of my testing material: Finding Nemo, Lilo and Stitch, Malena, The Fifth Element.

I was going to try to compare the component output to the RP82, but 1080i is so breath taking that I end up watching the entire movie instead of conducting my tests...

Sorry to do this, seems to be the only way:

picture

picture

picture2

picture4

pic5

pic6

pic7

pic8

pic10

pic11

Looks like theres y/c delay.

pic12

pic13

pic14

pic15

pic16

pic17

pic18

pic19

pic20

pic21

pic22

pic23

pic24

pic25

pic26

pic27

pic28

whew! Thanks folks!

paul do you see y/c delay? and what was the macro blocking from?

Yes, I do and it is noted in the first post. The macroblocking source is also located in the first post.

ok thanks sorry i missed it

Actually Kevin, the macroblocking source may not have been present when asked. I've been editing furiously!

i have the 3910 and wanted to see if i could see it. they both use the same chip and was wondering how denon may have got rid of it.

I don't know. Firmware update?

ok i can see it on ben hur but have to really turn up brightness but at reg viewing levels it is not there.

When I checked for pixel cropping on my HT1000 projector (I get 0 all the way for the D1 and my HTPC), I get 0 pixels cut off on the top and bottom, but 3 pixels on the left and 3 on the right.

The one pattern that this player does poorly on is Avia's moving Zone plates. In my setup, many of the lines in the boxes below the circle get a lot of noise.

My S97 setup (for 720p): Contrast 0, Brightness +1, Gamma +5 (to taste), Saturation/Color -1, Sharpness +2. I do not see a difference with the different noise reduction settings so I left them at 0. I get 0% red push and green and blue are at 0%. Tint is right on. When I check the color space, I only see RGB for 720p - no other option is shown.

I do not use 1080i because my NEC HT1000 projector forces a 5% overscan on 1080i DVI inputs, but accepts 720p at 0% overscan. Go figure!

Bytehoven - I will PM you with my HT1000 settings later tonight. I have not fired it up yet ;) Waiting for darkness...

You can see it with the the 3910?

I can make the blocks go away as well on the S97S. I can reduce the brightness a bit or introduce a bit of black crush. It looks like the majority of this "activity" is between 0-10 IRE.

Paul

yes i can but brightness needs to be almost all the way up.i also did the firmware update to correct gamma and pic crop.

Thanks for the report Rich!

The Avia moving zone plate doesn't fare too well and it is noted.

Paul

Paul,

In my setup, the Avia Special tests menu was fine - I checked it many times last night at 720p. Just for kicks, I'll check it at 1080i to see if the same thing happens.

Rich,

Strange. I've accessed it (and other deep Avia menus) several times with this same result. Perhaps the disc has been slightly revised/remastered?

Thanks Paul for the pictures of spam!! (lol j/k!)

Just curious, with the AVIA Y/C delay pic there. How can you tell about the delay because when I look at it, I cannot pin point it out.

It's my first time seeing that screen too so a bit of legend can be helpful!

So does this unit suprass the previous Panny Faroudja's?

Sango look at the number zero the red is flush at zero the others are not.

Just a reminder that these pictures aren't real scientific -- mostly for fun and discussion. I think it has been noted that the Avia Y/C is just a very rough guide. I would wait for a "Secrets" test before making any purchase decision based on Y/C results.

Paul, were there problems with the "Ben-Hur" release? Also, will you perform more DVE tests?

megamii,

No problems with "Ben-Hur" that I'm aware of. Again, macroblocking can vary from DVD to DVD, display to display, calibration to calibration. "Ben Hur" is a movie I'm familar with.

While the pictures are from Avia, DVE has been used extensively as well.

Paul

connection type = RGB only
DVI-DVI, DVI-HDMI or HDMI-DVI
(I don't know of any exceptions)

connection type = RGB or YCbCr
HDMI-HDMI
(exception: DVI output from Ayre DVD player)


NEC HT1000 = DVI input = RGB

The projector is probably set to overscan all non-native rate formats. Since the native rate of the projector is 1280x720, there is no overscan with a 720p input as it is at the projector's native rate (1:1).

Paul,

The 6.75 resolution patterns with the S97S and your display look wrong. Here is a comparison with a screen capture from Avia on my computer to your photo. It looks like about 1/2 the resolution is being lost in scaling.

Notice how it is difficult to resolve the space between the M and the H in MHz with the Panny.

Damn! :eek:

UMR,

Probably so -- and probably the result of the "4:3 pillarboxing" so often requested. IF I recall, I think the TV was left at "FULL aspect" for all resolutions to check 4:3 pillarboxing. I'll recheck the aspects.

Paul

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It has been noted in the first page.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
UMR,

Probably so -- and probably the result of the "4:3 pillarboxing" so often requested. IF I recall, I think the TV was left at "FULL aspect" for all resolutions to check 4:3 pillarboxing. I'll recheck the aspects.

Paul

You need to find a way to display 4:3 without stretching it. It is much easier to display the 6.75 pattern when the aspect ratio is wrong. You must be able to display a 4:3 image with full resolution when you use this pattern. You should also take a look at 16:9 patterns.

It's been a long few days, just an oversight. It's been noted in the first post. The DVE widescreen patterns can help out.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
It's been a long few days, just an oversight. It's been noted in the first post. The DVE widescreen patterns can help out.

Paul

I understand, that is a bunch of test patterns to take photos of and post. I am sure many people will appreciate your effort.

I'll go back and revisit. If anything, it proves that this "pillarboxing" isn't without penalty.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I'll go back and revisit. If anything, it proves that this "pillarboxing" isn't without penalty.

My Denon 3800 makes a mess of it as well. Fortunately, my TV does it correctly.

I would also check the chroma test patterns on DVE for 4:3 and 16:9 images. I have found many of these scaling players perform differently with different aspect ratios.

Paul,

Could you please post the length of the supplied HDMI--HDMI cable?

thanks!

It is 6 ft as noted in the first post of this thread.

I tried the Avia DVD tonight in both 720p and 1080i modes with my HT1000 projector and had no menu anomalies.

I was also able to play PAL DVDs as long as they are region-free.

Joe - the HT1000 is 1024x768 in native mode. The 1100 is 1280x720, as far as I know. Thanks for the explanation of why I can only see RGB for my HDMI-DVI connection.

Anyone tried the PAL to NTSC conversion ?

Is there a way to make this sweety regionfree ?

Regards, Daniel

Would like to see the S97 compared to the iScan HD :)

The loss of resolution in "4:3 pillarbox" mode is confirmed. The Momitsu V880 does not exhibit the loss (with the same material in the same configuration) as umr pointed out.

Paul

Paul,

This is one of several things Secret's has not found in the past. Kris Deering has indicated they will start testing more of these in the future.

Rich,

Did the PAL DVD's play back smoothly?

Paul

The Momitsu, in my view has the superior scaler. For example, while the zoom function isn't as flexible as the Panaonic's the Momitsu's "zoomed" image is far superior.

Some folks have this? What stores have it stocked?

Yes. Those who ordered *quickly* from "One Call" for the few hours they were in stock are receiving players.

Ken Crane's in Southern California *may* have some units in stock.

Paul

pic1

pic2

pic3

pic4

Rich
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize it was a 4x3 DLP projector, rather than the standard (16x9) 1280x720 that I'm used to seeing.

pic5

pic6

pic7

pic8

Attachment is pretty much self-explanatory. Can be accessed from first posting. Includes description.

Paul

Paul
Can either of your displays adjust the picture's position or size? In this link,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4585626&fullpage=1

there's a loss of image at the top and bottom. However, you may have controls on the display to adjust for what might be overscan that would allow you to see what's missing in the picture.

Hello Joe,

My Pansonic display is "locked" into FULL (16:9) with 1080i signals. There is no means to adjust the position or size (even in the service menus).

The Hitachi offers some scaling at 1080i/720p but I don't think it will help.

The pictures are from the Panasonic LCD.

Paul

Many people are saying it, but I'd just like to give serious props to those of you with these players, obviously Paul in particular, who have gone completely out of their way to populate this thread. Other than the silly "where's XXXX" posts (answered on the first page), there has been a patience and graciousness in this thread that is so often lacking in this (and other) fora.

Thank you guys so much.

To add to the fun, we all know thanks to the efforts of people like Sango that the Panny firmware updates were made at least partially (if convertly) public-accessible. However, it drives me nuts that there are no firmware updates downloadable directly from the manufacturer.

For those of you talking about having the Denon with firmware updates, were these done from an authorized service centre, or via a web download? Are there rumblings already about firmware update for this brand new S97? If so, how will updates be performed?

Any hope of a 5 disc version of this beast coming out? Perhaps a boutique player? A Yamaha re-badge like the RP-82/Yam 910/920?

Hello sharkshark,

Thank you for the kind words.

I have heard nothing about a firmware update for the S97S at all. Basically, the the firmware notation on the first page is a placeholder until something concrete is known. Just keep those ears open! :)

Paul

To respond to shark about the denon firmware. All i had to do was email denon and they sent the firmware in the mail and they also included instuctions. Denon has been great about getting firmware updates out.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Rich,

Did the PAL DVD's play back smoothly?

Paul

Paul, the PAL playback through the HDMI output looked pretty smooth.

When I tried the component outputs, I did not get a picture on my HDTV so I think it is not converting to NTSC but outputting PAL. However, through HDMI, the picture was fine at 720p or 1080i.

So Paul, does the S97 win over your xp50 over component at 480p and 480i ?
Does the S97's HDMI 480p looks better than the xp50 component 480p ?

Sorry to sing the same ol' song ...

Thanks sharkshark for the reply.

It's really up to the manufacturer what they want. I guess they are afraid that the user may mess up. =(

ok, THIS might be a dumb question (sorry, folks) but how are you guys even testing PAL on these machines? What Region 1 source do you guys test with for PAL?

And, knowing it's a broken record, I'm still looking for anybody that's tried real-world testing with an upconverting player into DVI on a CRT RPTV. I'm still not convinced this thing's going to be any better than my RP82 through component, NOT because I don't know that DVD is 480i native and it's all processing in the end (heh...) but that I think the real benefit for HDMI/DVI is for those with fixed pixel displays that upconvert -everything- to native res (so why not do it at the player end rather than the TV end).

Short version: I'd love someone with my TV (Sony 57" CRT RPTV) and my player (RP-82) to tell me that the new baby rocks their world.

Is that too much to ask? :)

Originally posted by sharkshark
ok, THIS might be a dumb question (sorry, folks) but how are you guys even testing PAL on these machines? What Region 1 source do you guys test with for PAL?

And, knowing it's a broken record, I'm still looking for anybody that's tried real-world testing with an upconverting player into DVI on a CRT RPTV. I'm still not convinced this thing's going to be any better than my RP82 through component, NOT because I don't know that DVD is 480i native and it's all processing in the end (heh...) but that I think the real benefit for HDMI/DVI is for those with fixed pixel displays that upconvert -everything- to native res (so why not do it at the player end rather than the TV end).

Short version: I'd love someone with my TV (Sony 57" CRT RPTV) and my player (RP-82) to tell me that the new baby rocks their world.

Is that too much to ask? :)

Don't know if this might help you make up your mind, I don't have a CRT RPTV but I do have a Sony 34XBR960 CRT. I had been using my RP82 until now, I wasn't expecting too much of a drastic difference in PQ with this player. But the 1080i output on this player really blew the RP82 away !!! Color rendition is so rich and images look much sharper yet not enhanced. I'm extremely happy with this player, what a nice suprise.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
The loss of resolution in "4:3 pillarbox" mode is confirmed.
Paul

Paul, is this a major concern?

First, I am very impressed by Paul and his dedication to get the info to the form! The amount of response, and the rate in which he is answering questions are amazing. I think this thread is now well over 440 postings and, I bet, third to half is Paul responding to question...Bravo!

So I got mine from Onecall also. Got it yesterday (picked it up at the FedEx station). It is hooked up to Panny commercial 50 plasma (6UY) via DVI blade. While I do not calibrate the combination other than with my own eyes (after all, I'm the one watching it:), this unit is most impressive. Frankly, after a disappointing experience with Denon 1910 in early September, I was expecting alot less. For some reasons, I had HCDP handshake problem with Denon and the PQ was only marginally better than my existing 480p player (Panny DVR DMR-80H) via component. Naturally I returned the unit with the intent to buy either the Sony or Panny about now.

After reading several concerns with HDMI>DVI adaptor, I can report that I absolutely see no ill effects, clipping or any noise (using MonsterCable adaptor ~$30). The HDCP handshake still takes a moment - long enough that I had to remove Gefin 2-to-1 switcher out of the loop. I had originally planned to share the DVI blade with my D* (Sony HD-300) tuner but I when back to RGB input for that.

So the most impressive part of the PQ is the depth and texture of image that comes across various DVDs. After playing around for awhile, my sense is that 1080i is marginally better than 720p on my screen. The edges are slightly more smoother in 1080i. As for Macroblocking - well its not bothersome for me at all. What I can say about the image quality is that, compared to some of the movies carried by HDNet, this player can play most DVD good as, or almost good as HD feed on my panel. My sense is that this is a function of source material than anything else.

I tested the player with various movie types - CGI only (Dinosoure, Toy Story2), CGI-based animation (Tarzan, Lion King), CGI-live action mix (Starwars Ep2, LOTR Twin Towers). Amazing amounts of details came out in scense that I had not seen (at least noticed) on my other player. Source material on Toy Story2 in particular showed more macroblocking and posterization against solid color background scenes (maybe higher compression).

Since I just enjoy good looking pictures on the screen, I won't try to be technical about my impression. Besides, Paul has done a wonderful job of that. It is fair to say that I am fully satisfied until the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD or what have you comes along with plenty of HD contents on the market.

Regards,

mgkg3,

Thanks for your post. Just curious, do you have previous Pannies to compare against?

So far still no word against how it compared to previous! Hopefully the answer will be out soon.

Sango

Originally posted by megamii
Paul, is this a major concern?

It depends upon how much 4:3 material is being watched. The Momitsu does not have this issue but the tradeoff is the superior deinterlacing of the Panasonic.

Have not done any real comparison against the XP50 yet. I've done a little against the V880 as a result of the 4:3 pillarboxing issue.

Paul

mgkg3,

Thanks!

Paul

Originally posted by silvertone
Don't know if this might help you make up your mind, I don't have a CRT RPTV but I do have a Sony 34XBR960 CRT. I had been using my RP82 until now, I wasn't expecting too much of a drastic difference in PQ with this player. But the 1080i output on this player really blew the RP82 away !!! Color rendition is so rich and images look much sharper yet not enhanced. I'm extremely happy with this player, what a nice suprise.

Sony loves to filter and enhance 480p inputs. You might see less difference with a little service mode tweaking.

Other than OneCall - has anyone been able to find this player anywhere for sale?

Ken Crane's in Westminster,Calif. and Ken Crane's in Buena Park, Calif each have at least one is stock as of 3:34 P.M. P.S.T.

Originally posted by Rich4av
I got my unit set up last night and tested it wit my HT1000 projector.



Hi Rich -

What is the native resolution of the HT1000?

Am interested in getting this player to replace my old (6 1/2 yrs!) and tired, but extremely faithful, S-Video-only Sony 480i player.

I am using a Sony HS20 LCD projector, which is 1366 X 768, and connecting via it's HDMI input.

Just trying to get a feel if it's worth the extra bucks to go with this player vs just going with a good quality progressive player.

Thanks to you and Paul for all the great info on this player.

Thanks -

Spike

Originally posted by Rich4av
I do not use 1080i because my NEC HT1000 projector forces a 5% overscan on 1080i DVI inputs, but accepts 720p at 0% overscan. Go figure!

My HT1000 does the same thing with 1080i from the 2910, defaults to the 5% overscan with no option for setting to 0%.

Originally posted by sharkshark
ok, THIS might be a dumb question (sorry, folks) but how are you guys even testing PAL on these machines? What Region 1 source do you guys test with for PAL?


I have a PAL DVD that has been made region free (not a topic for this thread). That's how I tested PAL. Or, you can buy PAL DVDs that say "ALL Region" on the package. The bottom line is - the S97 plays them as long as they are not region-coded.

Originally posted by Spike Forehand
Hi Rich -

What is the native resolution of the HT1000?

Spike

Spike, the HT1000 is 1024x768.

Interesting, Seems that several of the other competing forums are quoting this thread & Paul's work in particular. You're internationally famous now dude!!

Good thing we aren't in England. List price is 299 pounds & the deals are at 219, but @ $1.80 per pound it comes to about $400US.

Originally posted by Lodey
Other than OneCall - has anyone been able to find this player anywhere for sale?

Other than OneCall, which I bought my player from, I contacted 6Ave.com weeks ago and it told me it will have the S97 in stock.

Not on the 6ave website

Originally posted by ratflinger
Not on the 6ave website

You need to call 6Ave to find out, as some people had previously called OneCall.

It may be best to order from OneCall as you can take advantage of the 10% discount and free FedEx shipping (BOTH promotions will expire on November 5th, so you better hurry!). Even though the DVD-S97 is currently in backorder at OneCall until December, you do not have to pay the MSRP or a higher price on this unit.


Update: I am please to announce that I received a $18 refund from OneCall after it over-charged me by adding FedEx 3-day shipping even though I should pay nothing for it (as according to the promotion). It seems that the OneCall sales person I ordered the DVD-S97 from forgot the free FedEx shipping promotion for DVD players, even though she did remember to add the 10% discount for my order.

Since I used the free FedEx promotion, I will receive my unit on Monday as FedEx does not shipping on weekends.

Which forums ratflinger?

Originally posted by megamii
You need to call 6Ave to find out, as some people had previously called OneCall.

Update: I am please to announce that I received a $18 refund from OneCall after it over-charged me by adding FedEx 3-day shipping even though I should pay nothing for it (as according to the promotion). It seems that the OneCall sales person I ordered the DVD-S97 from forgot the free FedEx shipping promotion for DVD players, even though she did remember to add the 10% discount for my order.

Yes, onecall is a class act (no affiliation).

I'll second that re. Onecall, they also re-imbursed me for shipping charges of which I should not have been originally billed, as per promotion.

Apparently, this happened to several of us that pre-ordered the unit as soon as Paul was pounding the ground about this DVD player even before he actually received his.

Paul, apparently alot of your insight has come to fruition ! Good Call !!!

Originally posted by silvertone
Where's this main page you're refering to Paul?

thanks.

1st Post, first page.

I shall wait for a couple of days. If no one has any idea of this player and when they shall be getting it locally (B&M Store), then I shall place the order on onecall. I am not that impressed with their return policy. Thats all.

Finally placed a couple of writeups into the Physical and Remote parts of the Review section. Hope to get Video and Audio parts soon.

Still haven't looked at the audio much other than to verify working HDMI and analog two-channel and sync'ed sound.

Did listen a bit to some movie material with some electrostatic headphones -- sounded pretty good. Haven't tried any CD or DVD-Audio music yet.

Paul

Paul, when you have a chance would you mind snapping a pic of the remote to include in the first post alongside the other pics of the player?

Thanks for all your work on this...

-tony

Tony,

What an oversight! Will do!

I should take a picture of the HDMI-HDMI cable as well.

Paul

If any S97 owner happens to also have a Panasonic AE700....well, let us hear how its working together :)

Paul, since you have Digital Video Essentials, can you make photos for the 1.78:1 and 1.33:1 versions of the "restaurant" scene?

megamii,

Which part of the scene? The opening plates of food or the people?

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
megamii,

Which part of the scene? The opening plates of food or the people?

Paul

The people.

Can someone please test a DVD+R on this player ???

Thanks !!!!!

I would but I don't have a single one. Folks?

Paul

I have a couple of questions with respect to this player:

1) Has anyone compared the picture quality from this player to the Zenith 318? Is there a noticeable improvement? I realize the Panasonic has a boatload of features that the LG doesn't but my main concern is overall PQ.

2) Does this player have bass management for DVD-A?

3) Does anyone know of a retailer in Toronto that is carrying this player and what the price is?

DVD-S97 MACROBLOCK SURVIVAL GUIDE added to the MISC/reference section.

Paul

EVT,

I don't have the DVB-318, my apologies. If you have the DVB-318, how does the information in the FAQ section contribute to a comparison? It was the hope to present enough information (with screen pictures) so that comparisons with any player could be made. If you don't have the DVB-318 here is the FAQ thread for that player and perhaps a reasonable comparison can be derived:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400480

Best regards,

Paul

DVD-S97 MACROBLOCK SURVIVAL GUIDE added to the reference section.


We need a laughing smiley - that's too funny! (but indeed good information - thanks again Paul!)

One more note to add to the MB section - using a Denon 1910, I noticed some MB on large RED fields as well on a poorly-mastered DVDs (one or two).

Hea,

You're welcome! The macroblocking can apper in various isolated situations. I saw some evidence on the 20IRE window pattern in the "Sound and Vision Disc" but not on the 20 IRE window on the Avia disc. Go figure.

I was just trying to cover most of the bases from my experieces so far.

Paul

AGHGHGHGHHG, SO bummed this thing has Macroblocking issues. Why can't they fix this? I'll be interested to see a comparison to the XP50. IT sure seems they don't make them like that any more.

I don't know that they can't. Perhaps with time. I assume a firmware fix would do it.

Paul

Had a thought.... Wait for Faroudja's next generation chip and macroblocking should be gone!! yeehah!! =)

Nice report for the remote Paul. The remote design still looks a bit werid but I'll use the RP91's remote instead since it's a lot better than the XP/RP designs.

Paul Bigelow Praise

You guys have seen Paul's knowledge about the scene. He was one of the reason i purchased my Hitachi plasma 42hdt51. AVS forum is great, no one is trying to sell you anything, just great knowledgeable people like Paul. I will also purchase the Panasonic DVD-S97S, due to i need the HDMI connection and the 1080i up conversion. I don't want to spend over $300 bucks for a stinking dvd player! I am going to buy the panny in a week or two when i save up enough pennies!

Thanks again Paul

I just ordered a S97S direct from Panasonic.com and their price is $299.95. Shipping is free but they add tax to the order. For me this was $22.98 for a grand total of $322.93. Their estimated shippind date is on or before 11/22.

Panasonic has a presense in most (all?) states so sales tax, when applicable, is added.

Paul

Jay,

Thanks for the kind words. Trying hard to have a DVD-S97 resource thread here.

Paul

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mgkg3,

Thanks for your post. Just curious, do you have previous Pannies to compare against?

So far still no word against how it compared to previous! Hopefully the answer will be out soon.

Sango
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sango,

My guess is that you're referring to some Panny player that set the standard for PQ while back? The other DVD player I have is a Panny but it is a DVR (DMR-80EH). It has components out and is a progressive scan player.

When I compared the two 480p images, my DVR provides a better PQ via component than S97 via DVI - a reference point perhaps. Not sure what kind of deinterlacer is in my DVR but until S97, I was pretty happy with the PQ performance of my DVR and PDP combo.

In my original post, I did mention about Denon 1910. Since many folks have that player now, it may be worth mentioning that S97 clearly out performs 1910 for my setup. (lets make clear that I am not a brand biased consumer - frankly, I don't care if it is Denon or Panny, or Sony or what have you - as long as the mfg is know to provide quality products). Aside from the HDCP handshake issue, once it synch'd, the picture quality was only marginally better than my DVR at 720p and 1080i. The details and the textures that I now see in scenes (especially clothing, water/translucent, and scenematic views) with S97 was not noticed on 1910. I am not bashing 1910, rather, for my setup it was not as good as S97. The build quality of S97 is superior to 1910 (both in terms of weight and feel). I actually prefer the styling of 1910 (and new Sony) better than S97 but its just HW and PQ is more important.

Did play CDs but I did not use any of DAC in the player. I have it set up to send digital stream via optical out to an AV receiver and it does all the work. The sound in both movies and Clean and clear.

I am unsure if this is against forum rules so if it is please remove wrong parts..., but J&R is another source to look at. Free shipping and also the price is hard to beat!!
Will be shipping by EOM.

I live in manhattan. J&R doesn't have it in stock, with no date for delivery. Doesn't any outfit on the East Coast have this unit IN STOCK?

I received my unit from FedEx a few minutes ago. I will test it on my Samsung 22" LCD TV to see how it fares. The DVDs I will be test it will be: The Passion of the Christ, The Return of the King, Shrek, and Digital Video Essentials.

Since HDMI and DVI are both new to me, I hope that upconversion does not disappoint me.

Highly anticipating our first DLP (Samsung) and S97 match....Desperately holding off on the 1910 until then.

One of the most informative threads to date, with very few off-topic posts (a rarity these days). Thanks Paul and everyone else (as though you needed another pat on the back, you must be raw and chaffing at this point).

megamii,

Let us know how it turns out!

Paul

Panasonic web site has MSRP back to $299...

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
megamii,

Let us know how it turns out!

Paul

with pics too if possible please, and maybe comparisons with your old dvd component player if you have one..

It would be nice if someone could test a DVD+R too, if possible. Thanks.

How about people who use DVD+R and want to know if it works with this player send Paul (or anyone who's testing) a DVD+R to test with?

I would send one, but I strictly use DVD-R's and Paul's already confirmed that the player is able to play DVD-R media.

Just a thought.

I have DVD+R's. I'll test tonight and post the results.

Thanks Rich,

You'll make a lot of people waiting for an answer on this happy (hopefully).

Since DVD+RW works, I can't imagine a problem -- but you never know....

Paul

For current owners with the DVD-S97... Please post your *full* firmware info in case there are different versions.

To perform version check. Press and hold on unit "PAUSE" + "OPEN" and press 7 on remote. The full version will be displayed on the LCD read out and the last 3 numbers on the right is the version number.

Sango

I am not sure if they ship out though. I am waiting for my Sony XS955...you think the Sony HDMI DVD player will perform better just because it's a sony to sony component...that might be the biggest noob question ever :).
Anyone with any insight on this?

"Comparisons" section added. Thoughts and observations. No offense intended. First up, Momitsu V880.

Now the icing on the cake would be if someone finds a way to make this player a region-free player..that would be awesome..

L087 85E528 is firmware version on my player.

I'll pull the case and list the mei number tomorrow

Interesting note, Panasonic New Zealand imported a first batch of 20 units - all were pre-sold (thats right, 20 units for the whole country - go figure).
I missed out :-(

Also the S97 will be sold as a region free player (as are all players - local market requirements).

Paul,

From the photos you posted of Willy Wonka, the component (480P and 480i) pictures appear to offer slightly better focus and detail than any of the HDMi photos. Concentrating on the vertical corduroy lines in the shirt, the freckles and the edges of the hair/eyebrows/lashes this is what I see. Color and brightness differences aside I think I prefer the 480i photo.

Is that consistent with your general focus/detail impressions of the different modes or am I simply seeing photo/computer artifacts?

Also I noted earlier a special request asking if you'd be so kind to take photos of the DVE restaurant scene (people), I'd like to second that request if your significant other hasn't grown too tired of it all yet.

Thank-you

Just got my player today (Onecall). I can confirm that DVD+R discs work just fine. I assumed they would since +RW worked. Although I will ultimately control it with a Pronto Pro, at least for the initial few days, I wish the remote had a backlight.

Waiting for my Panny AE700. Using DVDO iScanHD at the moment with AE300. Picture very nice.

Hello Hugh2,

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'm going to revisit some of these pictures. They could be better. Color balance, consistency, etc. Might have to experiment a bit.

Paul