AstroCat,

What method did you use to connect up? HDMI?

What output resolutions does the S97 output and which output resolution looked the best? 720p or 1080i ? 480p doesn't look as good I imagine?

Originally posted by AstroCat
I hooked up the S97S to my AE700 last night and everything seemed ok. I'm coming from a RP-91 component which also looked good with the AE700.
Tonight I will be hooking up the S97S with an HDMI cable and then we'll see how that looks, which is the whole point of "upgrading" from the RP-91.

I will say the only thing that bums me out about the AE700 is the VB, it really is noticable and more so than any other projector I've personally tested, which incldues recently the Sanyo PLV-60 (my old one) and the Yamaha LPX-510 (way to much SDE at 1.5x width seating).

Jordan "AstroCat"
What is 'VB'?

Vertical banding, ae500 had similar issues

When I get home tonight I will test the HDMI cable I recieved today. Last night was 480p over component. The AE700 is so nice and such a good deal, that if we could just reduce the VB a little more it would be just that much better. But still, it's the best option I see at the moment. I hear the new sony HS51 has a lot of SDE, I'll take a little VB over SDE.

Jordan "AstroCat"

Originally posted by AkaStp
RichAV, are you saying that it works ok with the S97's HDMI cable and an HDMI-DVI adapter (that is my intended configuration when I hook up the S97 tomorrow) but not with a HDMI-to-DVI cable (my eventual intent if S97 is a keeper)? If so, would that not mean that the latter cable is defective? Perhaps purchase a (Monster) HDMI-to-DVI cable from BB or CC to try with to determine if it is the cable or not. You can always return it.

AkaStp, the fact that the picture comes up for a fraction of a second before going to snow means that the connection is good but copy protection is not done correctly on that cable. I think some cable manufacturers do not understand HDMI's copy protection.

Originally posted by arrowshine
I am frustrated and looking for advice. I apologize if this has already been adressed. I had the sam931(crap audio) then this new panny came out and the sony. I have a panny AE500U and I have always liked my sony dvd players. Well I just purchased the new sony and it does not work through hdmi > dvi to my player. Onecall says that it is my "crappy" projector which I love and it cannot possibole be the brand new first run attempt at a new upconverting sony player. The real question is - Will this new panny dvd player work on my AE500? I want an upscaler so bad it hurts. Please help!

Yes, it works fine with the AE500. I'm using an HDMI>DVI adapter. I'm getting some underscanning at 720P and less, but still visible, at 1080i, so I'm using 1080i. The detail is better than my beloved RP82, but the RP82 seems to have better contrast. I've not noticed significant macroblocking, but I've only had the player for 24 hours.

ahro, let us know how the RP82 and S97 compares on 480p component on your PJ. And if it's possible, how the 480p HDMI compares to the rp82 component 480p. I'm interested in color saturation and accuracy, details, sharpness and contrast. Thanks a lot ! Your comments will be invaluable as I'm choosing a replacement to my Zenith318 to mate my 4805 PJ.

Some cables that aren't terminated properly may be missing the pin needed for the hdcp edid prompts. I've tried the Bettercables hdmi/dvi cables, which work fine on the s97

Jason

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hugh2,

Some points concerning this player, camera, and the pictures:

Player:
1. A bit of edge ehancement is noted at 480p
2. There is loss of detail (already documented in the first post) with pillarboxed 4:3 material.

Camera:
1. Seems to add contrast
2. Pictures I have taken of color patterns show the color to be a bit "off".

Put together: loss of detail due to pillarbox, plus a bit of edge enhancement, plus a three/four year old Toshiba 2.1 MP camera that alters the image (doucmented as well) and it adds up to a picture that might be fun to discuss but not particularly good for critical evaluation.

I would never, ever make a buying purchase depending upon screen shots.

Paul

I wouldn't necessarilty buy something based purely on screenshots either but honestly I've purchased product with far less reliable info. I don't doubt the variables you outline as reasons not to entirely trust what has been presented but all the variables you disuss being equal, I find photos quite helpful and for comparison purposes generally more reliable than subjective impressions. I would never question anyones preference for what they think is "better" as this is purely subjective and not quantifiable, terms such as sharper, clarity and focus are something which most will percieved simarlarly and which I believe can be documented through photos as long as variables are controlled somewhat. If the same camera, positon, and light conditions are used I feel confident that photos can easily document differerences of sharpness, clarity and focus between two like images. Regardless of the quality of camera as long as it consistently takes poor photos then for comparison purposes this is all that's required. Though absolute quality can not be ascertained through photos relative differences can be.

I understand there are limitations to the above however but I do see a trend developing, I've yet to view a series of comparion photos which show an upscaled image being more detailed, sharper or in better focus, and to the contrary I've only personally witnessed the exact opposite. If camera and player variables were used to explain away differences in clarity and focus I would expect that these effects would be random, I however don't see this. I consistantly perceived through the series of photos you presented and the experimenting I've performed, that upscaled signal through a player leads to a less clear, less focussed, less detailed image.

I can only document my own experiences and these obviously may not be representative of the situation with respect to clarity and such so I'd like to see more photos of other setups comparing player upscaled vs non-upscaled images to determine if there is there is photo evidence of a players upscaled image actually showing better detail, clarity, and focus in comparison to it's non-upscaled counterpart.

Regards,
Hugh

Hugh,

Just wanted to make a statement about the photos because the intended purpose was ICP and then came comments about sharpness and just wanted to interject some comments before too much is made out of them.

As far as the upconversion process relative to 480p is concerned -- from my experience, I tend to agree. I think any changes noted are hardware dependant. In my situation (and it really can't been seen from the pictures) the Panasonic TV handles a 1080i signal much better than a 480i/p signal (HDMI or component). The Panasonic TV introduces some stairstepping and jagged diagonal lines with 480i/p when converting to the native resolution. Feeding a 1080i signal eliminates all of those problems. So, for me, an upconverting player is a necessity. HDMI/component -- doesn't matter. As long as it's 1080i, I have a basis for something to enjoy or work with.

If someone is happy with their XP50, XP30, RP82, 2200, or 2900 then my thoughts would be to keep it. At its core, it's all 480i.

Paul

Originally posted by Cricricri
ahro, let us know how the RP82 and S97 compares on 480p component on your PJ. And if it's possible, how the 480p HDMI compares to the rp82 component 480p. I'm interested in color saturation and accuracy, details, sharpness and contrast. Thanks a lot ! Your comments will be invaluable as I'm choosing a replacement to my Zenith318 to mate my 4805 PJ.

Cricricri

I don't have the S97 hooked up by component, just HDMI. I'm having trouble with the S97 480P HDMI as it seems to zoom when i don't want it. Last night I viewed Guns of Navorrone Superbit at 1080i and it was fine at 2:35:1 (it's a 2:35:1 anamorphic DVD), but when I switched to 480P the results were unexpected in that it gave me a zoomed 185:1 with lousy PQ. I tried playing around with the zoom and auto function but couldn't solve it. I'm reading the manual now as I think I'm missing some adjustment at 480P.

I can tell you this: RP82 component and S97 HDMI is 'pick em.' The S97 has a more detailed picture but slightly less color saturation even using the S97's color adjustment (Saturation was my big gripe with the Denon 1910, which I returned). I verified this with an eyeball comparison of North By Northwest on both machines. I like the S97, as of now will keep it, but I say it's only marginally ahead of the RP82 component. Perhaps when I tweak it a bit that might change -- but it's not going to knock your socks off compared to the RP82. Seems to me there's a bit of hype in these upscaling players. I've owned the Bravo D2, the Denon 1910, and the 841. The S97 is the best of the lot, but again, not a magnitude better than the RP82 via component. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hugh,

Just wanted to make a statement about the photos because the intended purpose was ICP and then came comments about sharpness and just wanted to interject some comments before too much is made out of them.Paul

Good point and definitely worth noting.

ahro:

When you get a chance, can you hook up the DVD-S97 via component and provide a comparison of the color saturation from that stand point to see if it's better than the RP82's saturation on component?

Thanks

Sango

Originally posted by AkaStp
Don't expect too much of a review from me...I'm not much of a videophile (yet). Unfortunately, my color perception is below par (not color blind though).

I'm just hoping for great PQ. Even though I'm already getting a darned good PQ from Panny F87 thru component to Sammy 50" DLP TV, I'm hoping to see noticeable improvements from S97 over HDMI-DVI.

Which is best calibration tool to purchase? AVIA or DVE? Reviews on Amazon severely criticize DVE for its poor UI and lack of clear instructions for novices (like me). AVIA gets criticized because it does not support DLP TVs (which I have).

LOL! Just your thoughts about the player and PQ would be great. Avia is considered more user friendly of the two but is more expensive as well. I recently bought it as well. Im new to calibration and therefore went with it so that I could learn the whole deal. Avia does not have 16:9 but has most of the tests. Once you are more familiar with the tests, you can always move up to DVE

ahro,

Have a look on page 15 (and page 11) in the "Display Menu" there is the "Just Fit Zoom" and "Manual Zoom". I think if one of those is set to "AUTO" the situation happens like you describe.

Paul

Originally posted by ahro
Cricricri

I don't have the S97 hooked up by component, just HDMI. I'm having trouble with the S97 480P HDMI as it seems to zoom when i don't want it. Last night I viewed Guns of Navorrone Superbit at 1080i and it was fine at 2:35:1 (it's a 2:35:1 anamorphic DVD), but when I switched to 480P the results were unexpected in that it gave me a zoomed 185:1 with lousy PQ. I tried playing around with the zoom and auto function but couldn't solve it. I'm reading the manual now as I think I'm missing some adjustment at 480P.

I can tell you this: RP82 component and S97 HDMI is 'pick em.' The S97 has a more detailed picture but slightly less color saturation even using the S97's color adjustment (Saturation was my big gripe with the Denon 1910, which I returned). I verified this with an eyeball comparison of North By Northwest on both machines. I like the S97, as of now will keep it, but I say it's only marginally ahead of the RP82 component. Perhaps when I tweak it a bit that might change -- but it's not going to knock your socks off compared to the RP82. Seems to me there's a bit of hype in these upscaling players. I've owned the Bravo D2, the Denon 1910, and the 841. The S97 is the best of the lot, but again, not a magnitude better than the RP82 via component. Hope this helps.

I had quite the opposite experience. I too have an RP82 connected to my Sony 34XBR960 (professionally calibrated) and I have to say there's a significance improvement in PQ using the 1080i output of this new player. Color rendition, sharpness etc.., enough to make me say wow over and over again. Again, this is my personal experience, not trying to hype this player up but if I had to put a number on perfornmance improvement over the RP82 I'd say it's about 30% better overall. I have to wait about two years until HD players come out and become affordable, in the mean time this has been the perfect solution for me, and I'm extremely picky. I have been looking very hard to find ANYTHING wrong with this player: ghosting, ringing, pixel cropping, etc, etc. I just can't find it. After many A/B comparisons with the RP82 this is IMHO a much much better dvd player at 1080i. Once again, this is just my opinion .

It's a bit light, but it's sturdy in my view, as compared to many DVD players these days.

The days of "built like a tank" at popular prices are long gone.

Paul

Originally posted by ahro
Cricricri
I like the S97, as of now will keep it, but I say it's only marginally ahead of the RP82 component. Perhaps when I tweak it a bit that might change -- but it's not going to knock your socks off compared to the RP82. Seems to me there's a bit of hype in these upscaling players. I've owned the Bravo D2, the Denon 1910, and the 841. The S97 is the best of the lot, but again, not a magnitude better than the RP82 via component. Hope this helps.
Thank you. That's what I'm looking for. I assume the same thing with the RP91. Is the RP82 better than the RP91 in piture quality? Thanks.

Although I haven't tried the Panasonic.....I have tried many others.

'Sweet spot' matching between player and display could very well result in a significant improvement in picture quality.

In my case, however, when projecting a 90 inch diagonal picture off an ISF certified screen, dvi/hdmi picture quality leaves me wanting compared to 480p analogue component.

What I see in many cases, not all, is a clean softer image with less contrast. I can also identify in many cases, not all, a green cast or push in the image. This has been my upscaled dvi/hdmi experience.

In most cases, comparatively speaking, things look better to me on 480p component.

Thanks for the report Silvertone!

I think there's very little to complain about in this player, picture-wise (the "M"-word, not withstanding). Most of the test patterns looked ideal. Hopefully this is conveyed in the first posting.

tvuong,

Do you have an RP91? If so, how does it compare to the info presented in the FAQ section? BTB OK? White crush, pixel croppring, etc? Frequency response, etc.?

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
ahro,

Have a look on page 15 (and page 11) in the "Display Menu" there is the "Just Fit Zoom" and "Manual Zoom". I think if one of those is set to "AUTO" the situation happens like you describe.

Paul

Paul,

It has to be coordinated with the display aspect ratio, at least on the AE500. I didn't think to do that and that was the problem. I'm still getting underscanning on 720 and 1080 -- wish I could fInd. a fix for that. You have to be careful to have the zoom at 100. If it's even at 101 you lose resolution.

Silvertone,

1080i must look very impressive, just curious if you did a direct comparison of the two players in 480p mode. If you did how do you feel the s97 compares to the RP82.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Sango
ahro:

When you get a chance, can you hook up the DVD-S97 via component and provide a comparison of the color saturation from that stand point to see if it's better than the RP82's saturation on component?

Thanks

Sango

Sango,

I won't be hooking it up by component. Right now I have the S97 and a 1 meter HDMI cable next to my display and a very long run on component to my RP82. I don't plan to duplicate it or switch it, as my wiring is so confusing now I want to leave well enough alone. Sorry.

Originally posted by silvertone
I had quite the opposite experience. I too have an RP82 connected to my Sony 34XBR960 (professionally calibrated) and I have to say there's a significance improvement in PQ using the 1080i output of this new player. Color rendition, sharpness etc.., enough to make me say wow over and over again. Again, this is my personal experience, not trying to hype this player up but if I had to put a number on perfornmance improvement over the RP82 I'd say it's about 30% better overall. I have to wait about two years until HD players come out and become affordable, in the mean time this has been the perfect solution for me, and I'm extremely picky. I have been looking very hard to find ANYTHING wrong with this player: ghosting, ringing, pixel cropping, etc, etc. I just can't find it. After many A/B comparisons with the RP82 this is IMHO a much much better dvd player at 1080i. Once again, this is just my opinion .

We have different displays. I'm glad it's working for you. I like the player too, just with the caveats I mentioned.

Originally posted by tvuong
Thank you. That's what I'm looking for. I assume the same thing with the RP91. Is the RP82 better than the RP91 in piture quality? Thanks.

I don't know, I don't own the RP91.

Originally posted by hkuhn
Although I haven't tried the Panasonic.....I have tried many others.

'Sweet spot' matching between player and display could very well result in a significant improvement in picture quality.

In my case, however, when projecting a 90 inch diagonal picture off an ISF certified screen, dvi/hdmi picture quality leaves me wanting compared to 480p analogue component.

What I see in many cases, not all, is a clean softer image with less contrast. I can also identify in many cases, not all, a green cast or push in the image. This has been my upscaled dvi/hdmi experience.

In most cases, comparatively speaking, things look better to me on 480p component.

Mostly, I absolutely agree -- except on the softer image part. I'm projecting on a 108 inch diagonal. Other than that, what you posted was exactly my experience.

Question:

For HDMI there are 3 color choices:

1. RGB
2. YCbCr (4:4:4)
3. YCbCr (4:2:2)

I have a Panasonic AE700 projector

Which one is the correct setting?

Thanks! :)

Jordan "AstroCat"

OneCall delivered my Panasonic S97 DVD player at 9am this morning. Ordered it yesterday at 4:00pm and got overnight delivery for an extra $22 upgrade from their free shipping -- Thanks, Jason!

The AE700 (from VA) was just dropped off. I feel a "cough" coming on... I think I'm going to have to leave work in a few minutes........ :D

Won't have too much time to play with it, unfortunately. Have to work on my fence this afternoon, then adjust my new ski boots and bindings as I'm going skiing tomorrow (Sierra-At-Tahoe, been open a week now).

First projector, setting it up for my new home theater. I'll be projecting onto a textured light cream-colored wall to start, until I can figure out what size screen I want. Then I'll be ordering my Berkline 099's (did not yet because I don't know if I'm going to want the straight connecting arms, or the wedge-shaped; depends on screen visibility).

Hopefully I'll get my Emotiva pre/pro and amp delivered soon! For now, 7.1 driven by my old trusty Sony DA5ES (with second amp for rear channels).


Anyone in the Sacramento area interested in checking the projector/player out? Let me know :)


Many thanks to all here on AVS, especially Paul's thorough and tireless updates!

Right on Glen, Enjoy it :)

Jason

Originally posted by tvuong
Thank you. That's what I'm looking for. I assume the same thing with the RP91. Is the RP82 better than the RP91 in piture quality? Thanks.

Well I do own an RP91. The RP82's PQ is definately better than the RP91 on progressive because of Faroudja. On the interlaced side, hard to tell, they both look very good.

From what I know RP91 is considered to have the best interlace, I think both of them are IMO. The only thing I noticed between the players is the way the chroma filters work on red because they are slightly different but really nothing.

Sango

AHRO......

Using the Sony HS 20 and Optoma H56 projectors:

dvi/hdmi results:

Bravo D1 - soft
Sony 975 - soft
LG xxxx - soft and grainy
Toshiba 5970 - soft and grainy
Pioneer 59avi - sharper
Samsung 931 - sharper
Denon 3910 - sharper
DVDO i-scan HD - look no further
Faroudja player - look no further

Good 480p over analogue component can be very cable dependent. I would imagine that the quality of my Nordost Optix component set surpasses that of my Monstercable dvi/hdmi interconnects.

Digital transmission in my opinion is a much more corruptible signal medium than analogue.

The video DAC's used today - 12 bit at 108/214/216/ do a great job at conversion. (done in the player with very low jitter)

This could very well be what I see in the performance of the budget units and why their analogue component video looks better than dvi/hdmi.

Getting digital transmissions to work properly takes time and expense. The more expensive players do a much better job.

Watching dvi/hdmi presentations can be deceptive. The cleanliness of the image may lead some to believe that the image is actually sharper. Taking a second look....the 'air' that surrounds the images is missing.

Thanks Glen!

Enjoy the 'S97 and the AE700!

I hope you get well soon! ;)

Paul

Is the 'S97 flu going around? ;)

I think it's PAN-demic....... (ducks)

Paul, have you found out if the "trick" works yet?

Sango

I am calibrating my S97 with DVE to my Panasonic 53X54 RPTV, but some of these video and audio settings are confusing, and I don't know whether I should use any or not. Can anyone help? Thanks.

VIDEO
What does Gamma adjustment do?
Depth Enhancer?
MPEG DND and 3D-NR?
RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 for HDMI colorspace

CRT Projector vs. Projection TV, I'm assuming that the crt projector is referring to a front projection not a rear projection, which mine is.

AUDIO
Multi Re-master/ouput sampling?
PCM digital output or bitstream, 48khz,96khz,192,khz?

gcmail!! easier to say FPTV and RPTV!! Less confusing to me!!

The Depth enhanced is some image improvement thing.
MPEG DND and 3D-NR is the noise reduction
RGB, not sure but the DVD shootout talks about those ratios!

Audio
The remaster is like an upscale for audio!

Originally posted by Sango
Paul, have you found out if the "trick" works yet?

Sango

Sango,

I don't think I'm going to attempt to go into any non-documented sequences until the warranty expires.

Paul

gcmail,

VIDEO
What does Gamma adjustment do? -- in effect, brightens the mid-grays

Depth Enhancer? -- haven't seen any affect

MPEG DND and 3D-NR? -- both reduce video noise at some expense to detail

RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 for HDMI colorspace -- will allow for more "samples" of color and possibly improving color reproduction *on sets that will accept the signal*. The player will let you know if the signal is compatible with the display. Give 4:4:4, a try, if possible.

CRT Projector vs. Projection TV, I'm assuming that the crt projector is referring to a front projection not a rear projection, which mine is --- there a several modes for display type. I've set mine for LCD or Plasma as indicated, but I'm not sure if it directly affects picture.

AUDIO
Multi Re-master/ouput sampling?
PCM digital output or bitstream, 48khz,96khz,192,khz?

Both of these are audio enhancements -- haven't explored audio yet -- after a week! :)

Paul

So I am already having trouble with my S97. I have hooked it up to my brand new Panasonic 53X54 HD RPTV and it won't allow me to select any upconverting options. Worked fine on the Denon 1910, but it won't recognize my television as able to upconvert.

gcmail, is your TV HDCP-compatible?

It says in the specs for my televison HDCP interface -- it's brand new, panasonic only released it about four months ago. Like I said it upconverted with the Denon. Going nuts, really wanted to play with this baby tonight.

It says my televison is HDCP compatible with 1080i, 480p and 480i.

The Denon however was a DVI connection so I had to use a converter, maybe there's something wrong with the HDMI-HDMI connection. I thought acutally owing a Panasonic Television to go with my Panasonic DVD player would actually insure compatibilty.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Sango,

I don't think I'm going to attempt to go into any non-documented sequences until the warranty expires.

Paul

Aww that's so curel!! j/k!! lol!!
I'll have to try it when I get my unit when it arrives.

gcmail,I have the 53X54 also and contemplating getting the S97.That wouldn't make any sence that they wouldn't be compatable.The X54 isn't that old and the S97 just come out and both made by Panasonic.By the way,isn't the X54 540P and 1080i?.Thats what I always thought form the specs I seen.

Originally posted by gcmail
The Denon however was a DVI connection so I had to use a converter, maybe there's something wrong with the HDMI-HDMI connection. I thought acutally owing a Panasonic Television to go with my Panasonic DVD player would actually insure compatibilty.

Hello gcmail,

I'm sorry to hear about the problem.

I have the Panasonic TC-22LH1 TV with HDMI and have had "zero" problems with HDCP via the HDMI and that's with swapping out the the connection with the Sony '975 *dozens* of times.

Let's run down some typical stuff:

The HDMI output is activated in the "Setup" menu, correct?

Defective cable?

Does the component or S-Vid have any output?

If the component works, how about
1. Load up a DVD and get it going to get some sound
2. Turn on the HDMI connection, including HDMI audio in the DVD "Setup" menu
3. Insure the TV is configured to allow for sound via the HDMI
4. Then switch TV inputs to see if there's any sound via the HDMI
If nothing, including no sound, I would suspect the cable.

Let us know what happens!

Paul

Does anyone know the size of the memory buffer? I went through the manual on Panny's website and couldn't find it.

I see the layer change takes about 0.5 seconds. I wanted a slightly more objective comparison to the 1910's 2MB buffer, and the 2910's 8MB buffer

Scott,

Here's a link that objectively compares the Denon DVD players. Note the "layer change" column. The 1910 takes 2 seconds and the 3910 takes .5 seconds.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=15&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0

Paul

Thanks Paul, that's why I asked the question!

I believe that I read that The Secrets test specifically uses a very difficult layer change. As a result during most real usage, the layer change will be less than in the test. But I can't find the link at this time.

Therefore, I assume that when Secrets tests the S97, it will perform worse than the 0.5 seconds you and some of the other posters have observed in real world usage. Knowing the buffer size "should" give us some insight into how it will perfom in that test.

As discussed earlier the S97 and the 2910 share the Faroudja FLI-2310. If the S97 has an 8MB buffer, this too would equal the 2910 on a spec basis (surpassing the 1910). I'm pretty sure I'd prefer the Panny to the Denon 1910 already, but the buffer/layer change will seal the deal for me.

Thanks again.

My HDMI cable was defective. Dealer gave me a new one to test and now it works. FYI you do not select output through setup menu, very confusing. You actually have to press the display button on the remote and access it that way. The manual never tells you this.

So here's my mini report until I have more time today to play.

After calibrating with DVE I can say that the pq is much better than the Denon 1910 at 1080i, color and pq are more detailed and vibrant. However, the MB is very noticeable on my RPTV 53X54, almost more than the 1910, the whole opening sequence of Fellowship during the credits in the beginning you can see severe MB as well as opening of Star Wars. Monsters Inc. chp 11 was not bad at all oddly enough, but it seems like any dark scene so far it's present.

I am going to spend the day fine tuning to see how best I can do to minimize, but so far I haven't been successful. I have to lower my brightness and contrast unacceptable levels to even notice any difference at all.

Depth Enhancer, MPEG DNR/3D DNR on both the S97 and my television were also unsuccessful. ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS GUYS?

If I am unable to minimize can you all reccomend a solid progressive player for me to switch to. I would much appreciate it since I only have until tomorrow night to return the S97 for something else.

Originally posted by Ripper64
gcmail,I have the 53X54 also and contemplating getting the S97.That wouldn't make any sence that they wouldn't be compatable.The X54 isn't that old and the S97 just come out and both made by Panasonic.By the way,isn't the X54 540P and 1080i?.Thats what I always thought form the specs I seen.

The 53X54 upconverts 480 to 540, but the signal it accepts still has to be 480 or 1080.

Has anyone used the S97 on a Samsung DLP yet? If not, any other DLP? I am very curious to find out how bad the MB is on DLP.

do you use the lighter or darker setting for black level? I dont have complete light control for my projector so I cannot set this unti later tonight.
Andy

I have the Samsung HLN507 which doesn't have a setting for the black level to my knowledge.

Paul -

Did I read somehwere in your posts about a setting on the S97 when you're viewing B&W material? I'm watching 'The Last Hurrah' at 1080i over HDMI and it seems to have a slight pink cast to it. I've tried to turn the color level on the S97 down to the lowest setting, but it doesn't seem to help. Any suggestions?

Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
Has anyone used the S97 on a Samsung DLP yet? If not, any other DLP? I am very curious to find out how bad the MB is on DLP.

Hopefully I will on Monday or Tuesday when my S97 arrives. I have a HLP5063. I'm curious to know what others think - I'm sure someone out there has a DLP.

Originally posted by ahro
Paul -

Did I read somehwere in your posts about a setting on the S97 when you're viewing B&W material? I'm watching 'The Last Hurrah' at 1080i over HDMI and it seems to have a slight pink cast to it. I've tried to turn the color level on the S97 down to the lowest setting, but it doesn't seem to help. Any suggestions?

I don't have the movie. Try reducing the color on the display all the way down.

Macroblocking suggestions are given in the first post.

Paul

Just wondering, It says it will play mpeg4, does that mean it will play divx and xvid? anyone?

Unless it explicity saids DivX or Xvid, I would have to say no.

damn, I was really looking forward to playing those. Divx and Xvid are recognized formats of Mpeg4, I get my s97 on Mon, I will try then and make sure unless someone else tries first

Hmm I didn't think of mpeg4 in that way. I thought thought that DivX and Xvid are completely differnet formats and the same with MPEG 4.

My S97 is on back order and I'm the first to be on the next batch which comes in from Onecall.

Originally posted by Sango
Aww that's so curel!! j/k!! lol!!
I'll have to try it when I get my unit when it arrives.

What is the trick and what does it attempt to do?

S97 REPORT

Panasonic S97 HDMI-HDMI
Panasonix 53x54 Widesceen RPTV
Coax connection to Yamaha HTR 5150
PSB Speaker System
Discs used: DVE, Star Wars Trilogy, Lord of the Rings Trilogy, Monsters Inc., Matrix Reloaded, Day After Tomorrow.

I will say that this player outperforms the Denon 1910 in both video and audio performance by a wide margin. The MB is frustrating, but I was able to reduce it to "acceptable" levels after half a day of fine tuning and testing. While I found it unacceptable on the Denon, the added picture and sound quality on the S97 made the MB negotiable for me.

These were my final settings:

1080i (480p shows no MB but obviously has a softer, less detailed picture, I have no 720 on my RPTV).

HDMI Colorspace -- RGB (Switching from 4:4:4: Colorspace to RGB made the biggest difference in reducing MB).

DNR off (DNR softened the picture and didn't improve MB at all on my set).

User setting 1 AV Enhancer User 1
Black Level - lighter (switching between this and darker, didn't do much)
HDMI RGB Range -- enhanced (really helped MB)

Hope this helps some of you RPTV people.

Hi,

Just purchased the dvd-s97 yesterday. Does anyone know how to make this player correctly play 4:3 DVDs? I've tried setting the picture mode/zoom to AUTO but it still stretches the image on my pioneer 1110hd plasma.

I used to have a Denon 1910 but returned it because it couldn't play 4:3 dvds correctly over HDMI. I hope it's not the same problem with the Panny.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Originally posted by klepoy
Hi,

Just purchased the dvd-s97 yesterday. Does anyone know how to make this player correctly play 4:3 DVDs? I've tried setting the picture mode/zoom to AUTO but it still stretches the image on my pioneer 1110hd plasma.

I used to have a Denon 1910 but returned it because it couldn't play 4:3 dvds correctly over HDMI. I hope it's not the same problem with the Panny.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Try putting the the player setting on 'normal' if I remember, and use the aspect ratio adjustment on your display, That worked for me on my AE500 PJ

klepoy,

See page 15 of the manual:

Display menu: "4:3 Aspect" should be "Normal".

Paul

Originally posted by mallu2u
What is the trick and what does it attempt to do?

Is to see if the unit has a hidden password window. There is another part after but as long as it's not confirmed I won't say it will be true for this unit.

There should be a significant difference because the those players are using Panasonic's all-in-one chipset which is inferor to that using dedicated chips such as the S97 and 2002 Faroudja based units.

Did you also try S97 using component to see how it does?

I've tried the DVD-S75(aka DVD-S55 for North America), and it was very horrible. The colors didn't quite look well and I saw jaggies in my anime(CG based) on diagonals(very obvious ones)!!

Sango

I don't think you're gonna get the "WOW" factor 'til HD or 1080P comes along. You don't think 20-25% is significant?

Originally posted by AkaStp
Is it possible that my Sammy 50" DLP does pretty much the same job converting 480p via component from the F87 to the TV's native 720p as the S97 outputs at 720p?
When you use component out of the DVD player there is a conversion to analog. The TV must convert back to digital. That's all extra and error prone. You don't say anything about actual PQ issues.

Is there a difference in details or color when the scene is dark?

What about banding when there is a large area of gradually changing color?

What about skin tone?

If you uses specific scenes that illustrate situations that cause trouble you have a better chance of telling if there are differences.

Also, the Samsung DLP user settings can over-ride differences in PQ between DVD players. What user settings are you using and which model (HLM, HLN, HLP) TV set do you have?

Personally I think 20% - 25% improvement can be significant.

Originally posted by Sango
Is to see if the unit has a hidden password window. There is another part after but as long as it's not confirmed I won't say it will be true for this unit.

Sango, if you PM me the information, I'll check for you.

After calibrating my S97, I have enjoyed several days of rediscovering many of my DVDs. I use a projector setup which makes it easier for me to see the picture improvements when it's 8-feet wide.

I have played the Star Wars DVD s many times and do not see MB. I use an HDMI cable and a HMDI-DVI adapter. The color space is always RGB.

I have a "tube" HDTV too, but you can't see as many of the improvements there. The quality of the upscaling and the colors are much improved over my D1 or the HTPC. I, for one, consider this unit a bargain! I have not fired up my HTPC in a week.

Originally posted by Sango
Is to see if the unit has a hidden password window. There is another part after but as long as it's not confirmed I won't say it will be true for this unit.

for making it region-free? if not, what shall the secret password potentially allow access to?

mallu2u,

Yup you got the idea, both region/macrovision free but without the SVC Disc #2 which is the part after, it cannot be confirmed.

Originally posted by Sango
mallu2u,

Yup you got the idea, both region/macrovision free but without the SVC Disc #2 which is the part after, it cannot be confirmed.

Sango: Then send the info to Rich4av fast. He is willing to give it a shot

Didn't work!! I'll have to see if I can find a way when I get the unit.

I count on you for that !

Is this following picture an example of macroblocking?

http://www.onesimos.com/macroblocking.jpg

Note: the blue background is actually black because my digital camera in some ways make blacks into blues. The screenshot is from "The Passion of the Christ" before the ending credits.

AkaStp, our settings will be relative to our displays, so they may not be of much use. Note that the S97 allows you to store 3 User settings.

For me, Contrast = 0, Brightness = 0 or +1 (depending on movie), color = -1, sharpness = +2, gamma = 0 to +5 (on darker movies).

After I calibrated my projector, the picture detail and color are just amazing. I also have been watching older DVDs ;)

Regarding that posted picture - I see that kind of thing occasionally on my Momitsu. If that is as bad as it gets maybe I should just order this Panasonic.

Originally posted by Rich4av
For me, Contrast = 0, Brightness = 0 or +1 (depending on movie), color = -1, sharpness = +2, gamma = 0 to +5 (on darker movies).

Does the S97 offer all of these adjustments over the HDMI output? I assume yes.

Thanks

RJ
...

Originally posted by megamii
Is this following picture an example of macroblocking?

Note: the blue background is actually black because my digital camera in some ways make blacks into blues. The screenshot is from "The Passion of the Christ" before the ending credits.

(picture edited out)

megamii,

I don't have the movie, but I think that is what is being seen in the picture. It could just as easily be the transfer. Again, my picture of the macroblocking is "brightness enhanced".

Paul

Bytehoven,

Yes, these adjustments are available via HDMI.

Paul

My settings:

Contrast = 0, Brightness = +1, Sharpness = -1, Color = 0, Tint = 0, Gamma = 0.

Originally posted by AkaStp
My Samsung HD TV is a HLM507, two years old.

I did not notice any improvement from the S97 at 480p over component vs. the F87 at 480p over component.

I didn't mention PQ issues because I didn't really notice any. I have followed many of the threads and descriptions and discussions of macroblocking and other issues but I didn't notice anything like that, not even on Finding Nemo. Nothing jumped out as unusual or unacceptable. Maybe I need to sit closer to the display and look harder to try and find the problems.

I used 20-25% to try and convey that there is some improvement over the F87's PQ, but not a lot. I.e. it is hardly noticeable TO ME. But, no, I don't consider 20-25% to be a very significant improvement. To be honest, I expected a lot more out of a $300 DVD player but, as others have stated here and elsewhere, there are limits to what can be extracted out of existing DVD material. Someone, somewhere in this forum, made the statement that you can't get gold from coal.

Believe me, I keep looking hard to try and find the improvements because (a) it is a much more expensive player and (b) many of you have said that the PQ should be much better than run-of-the-mill non-upconverting players and (c) I'm trying to find reasons to justify keeping it over my 60-day old F87 which, unfortunately, I'm outside of the return period for. Upon reflection, I should not have bought the F87 with the S97 on the horizon and, if I had not, I would have no hesitation to keep the S97. Anyone want a barely used (<60 days) old F87? ;)

But, there is another issue I'm wrestling with. As my TV has just the one DVI input I had to disconnect my Sammy 360 D* HDTV receiver to use it for the S97. In order to dedicate that DVI input to the S97 I have to use component or RGB for the HDTV receiver but am not as happy with the resulting PQ over component or RGB vs. DVI. I find that the difference in PQ for the HDTV receiver between DVI and component or RGB to be much more noticeable than for the S97 over DVI relative to the F87 over component. I really don't want to spend $200-300 on a switch and the necessary extra cables and adapters. So, it seems to me, that the best use of my TV's DVI input is for HDTV receiver. It seems rather pointless to use the S97 at 480p over component.

As I've mentioned earlier, I am not a videophile. I have not even fully calibrated my kit yet. I'm just looking at overall PQ from a purely subjective standpoint. This is just one person's opinion presented for what is worth. Your experience may be totally different. You know what you are looking for.

AkaStp,

Have you not noticed the horrible chroma bug problem on your F87? That alone kills it for me and there is really no comparison. I have an F85 that has it as well...it is very noticeable to me, especially on any animated films. The S97 apparently does not have this problem, that's why I am actually very interested in finding out exactly what they did in the new MPEG decoder over the XP30/50/RP82. The F87 (and F85) uses MEI's all-in-one bargain MPEG decoder that has various problems, unlike the "near-perfect" RP-82/XP-30/50 from 2 years ago.

Guys: Ordered the player from JR on Friday. Will get by middle of next week but got a good price on it. :) PM me if you need details (as we are not allowed to discuss prices here).
Also, please post your settings for the player, esp if you have a RPTV. I have a Sony XBR 60'' and am looking forward to setting it up right with this player.

I guess I should go through the player tonight and post my settings (at least the ones changed from default).

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I guess I should go through the player tonight and post my settings (at least the ones changed from default).

Paul

Thanks Paul! Much, much appreciated.

Hi All,

Just purchased one from J&R.
Have been very impressed by the efforts thus far to evaluate the video aspects of the player. It seems to approach state of the art in this regard.
What I am curious about, and have not seen mentioned, is anyone's opinion regarding the audio output of the player.
I hope to use it via HDMI to SA-XR70(if it ever ships), so I am not that concerned regarding its D-A performance.
I don't know if anyone has had a chance to compare it's digital output with either 2 channel or DTS/DD from players regarded to have quality audio sections such as the current crop of denons, or for that matter a comparision to a dedicated CD player (do these still exist?).
Regarding enhanced playback, don't know if anyone has listened to DVD-A discs or HDCD with the unit.

Many thanks in advance,

Michael Sabadish

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Does the S97 offer all of these adjustments over the HDMI output? I assume yes.
...

Yes, it does. The PQ on the HT1000 (which you also own) is amazing at 720p. I do not see any MB.

I recently bought a panasonic 50" lcd rptv ( lc14)
I am in the market for a new dvd player.

Has ne1 tried s97 via the HDMI of the LC14?

Pls post ur impressions.

thx in advance,

Originally posted by AkaStp
Re: Horrible chroma bug problem on F87...
Not that I'm aware of. What does it look like?
Note: I rarely watch animated films. Finding Nemo was most recent over the weekend when I was trying to compare F87 with S97.

Here is the best explanation around.....

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html

Rich, I just got the player this weekend but unable to try it out yet.

Have a couple questions:

What HDMI color space are you using? I'm assuming RGB since the HT1000's DVI signal expects RGB?

If so, what is your HDMI RGB Range? Standard or Enhanced? Does this control PC RGB vs. Video RGB? Which one corresponds to which?

Finally, does it pass BTB/WTW?

Thanks

I believe Paul has already confirmed the Chroma bug is not there. Right Paul? It is pretty easy to pick out just by looking at the Toy Story menu. You can do it yourself, AkaStp.

Kris Deering, where are you? Do you have a DVD-S97 yet?

Originally posted by LiteUp!
I believe Paul has already confirmed the Chroma bug is not there. Right Paul? It is pretty easy to pick out just by looking at the Toy Story menu. You can do it yourself, AkaStp.

Correct, it's in his first post. He refers to it as "Chroma Upsampling Error," or CUE. He didn't see it under HDMI or component.

According to Paul, the CUE (chroma) problem is not present in the S97, but it is there in the new Sony player.

Originally posted by pocoloco

Finally, does it pass BTB/WTW?


Yes it does, see the FAQ section in the very first posting for details.

Paul

Originally posted by LiteUp!
I believe Paul has already confirmed the Chroma bug is not there. Right Paul? It is pretty easy to pick out just by looking at the Toy Story menu. You can do it yourself, AkaStp.

I don't any CUE with the Panasonic. I don't have Toy Story. I use other material such as the recent, expanded version of the Elvis " '68 Comeback Special "

Paul

Remember last played position of ejected disc: <tbd>

I haven't been following this thread over the past several days like I did while awaiting my unit. If someone has already addressed this please forgive me. I saw <tbd> still on Paul's first post so I assume :confused: it has not been determined.

I have been watching Star Wars episode IV (first movie) incrementally over the past few days. I stop the film when I need to, turn the power off, then power the everything down via the power conditioner I use for my equipment rack. When I power it back up, it starts again as if I had put the disk in for the first time. This unit is supposed to remember several disks in its memory according to the manual. In my case:

A. The unit doesn't remember.
B. I need to press a button to make it remember.
C. Powering everything down via the power conditioner (like I unplugged the unit) erases its memory
D. ???

Radsman

What is the recommended HDMI Color Space setting (RGB, YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2) for a Samsumg DLP RPTV? Assuming 4:4:4 is available, I know that I prefer that to 4:2:2, but which would I most likely prefer between RGB and 4:4:4?

Unit was delivered from Onecall today. Hopefully will have some time to fiddle with it tonight.

Originally posted by Radsman
Remember last played position of ejected disc: <tbd>

I haven't been following this thread over the past several days like I did while awaiting my unit. If someone has already addressed this please forgive me. I saw <tbd> still on Paul's first post so I assume :confused: it has not been determined.

I have been watching Star Wars episode IV (first movie) incrementally over the past few days. I stop the film when I need to, turn the power off, then power the everything down via the power conditioner I use for my equipment rack. When I power it back up, it starts again as if I had put the disk in for the first time. This unit is supposed to remember several disks in its memory according to the manual. In my case:

A. The unit doesn't remember.
B. I need to press a button to make it remember.
C. Powering everything down via the power conditioner (like I unplugged the unit) erases its memory
D. ???

Radsman

B: I know this from my previous Panny player. Used to be called position memory on that remote. Have not see new remote. I know it is mentioned in the manual.

Radsman,

I'm still trying to figure it out. So far I've been unsuccessful. It has the ability to remember postions if the disc is still loaded but so far, every disc I've unloaded has started from beginning. It looks like the "position memory" only applies if the disc is still loaded. I'll take a closer look.

The Sony DVP-NS975V remembers disc and picture settings up to 40 discs, if I recall, if configured to do so.

Paul

Originally posted by Radsman
Remember last played position of ejected disc: <tbd>

I haven't been following this thread over the past several days like I did while awaiting my unit. If someone has already addressed this please forgive me. I saw <tbd> still on Paul's first post so I assume :confused: it has not been determined.

I have been watching Star Wars episode IV (first movie) incrementally over the past few days. I stop the film when I need to, turn the power off, then power the everything down via the power conditioner I use for my equipment rack. When I power it back up, it starts again as if I had put the disk in for the first time. This unit is supposed to remember several disks in its memory according to the manual. In my case:

A. The unit doesn't remember.
B. I need to press a button to make it remember.
C. Powering everything down via the power conditioner (like I unplugged the unit) erases its memory
D. ???

Radsman


The answer is 'B.' Take a look on the remote - position memory. Press that at the point you want to resume, you can power down, eject the disc and send it to Duluth and back - reinsert it and it *will* remember

Originally posted by pocoloco
Rich, I just got the player this weekend but unable to try it out yet.

Have a couple questions:

What HDMI color space are you using? I'm assuming RGB since the HT1000's DVI signal expects RGB?

If so, what is your HDMI RGB Range? Standard or Enhanced? Does this control PC RGB vs. Video RGB? Which one corresponds to which?

Finally, does it pass BTB/WTW?

Thanks

pocoloco, the HDMI-DVI connection only allows the RGB color space. I use standard HDMI color range. I cannot tell you which is which.

As Paul noted, it does pass BTB/WTW.

Originally posted by mallu2u
B: I know this from my previous Panny player. Used to be called position memory on that remote. Have not see new remote. I know it is mentioned in the manual.

There is a button on the s97 remote called Position Memory as well.

Originally posted by AkaStp
I also have Sammy DLP TV but have not discovered that setting yet so I look forward to hearing the answer. There are so many settings on the S97 and they are not explained at all well in the instructions.

The manual is pretty damn confusing. Especially with regards to the way User 1, User 2, etc in the AV Enhancer relate to other settings. It seems that if you choose anything other than "User" in the Picture Mode option of the Picture Menu (i.e. Cinema 1, Dynamic, etc) that the User settings aren't available. Then there's Auto in AV Enhancer, which also seems to disable the manual user settings. Just curious how this all works together - if you select Cinema 1, does AV Enhancer automatically go to Auto?. Will let you know what I figure out after I play with it - may not be until tomorrow night.

BTW, I have an HLP model so I plan to use the HDMI in on the Sammy. Based on what was posted above by Rich4av, if you are using an HDMI to DVI converter, you can only use RGB.

When I connected the 'S97 to the Hitachi Plasma via HDMI->DVI, RGB was the only selection offered and that is the "correct" setting for DVI.

If something else is allowed, then the 'S97 will let you know.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
When I connected the 'S97 to the Hitachi Plasma via HDMI->DVI, RGB was the only selection offered and that is the "correct" setting for DVI.

If something else is allowed, then the 'S97 will let you know.

Paul

So it should be correct for HDMI ---> HDMI then too, right?

Eric,

My Hitachi does not have HDMI so can't say.

For my Panasonic LCD TV, RGB, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4 are all allowed.

Paul

In speaking of RGB, is the DVI format only accepts RGB and not YPbPr?

FYI, when I went to the Pansonic website and found a local dealer for the S97 both Best Buy and Circuit City showed up. Area Code 22042 if your interested. Makes me think it will show up at B&M Stores.

Originally posted by EricScott
So it should be correct for HDMI ---> HDMI then too, right?

An important note from the hometheaterhifi.com website in the DVD Benchmark tests when the Denon DVD-3910 was tested:

"Denon has dropped the BNC component outputs, but added an HDMI output to compliment the DVI output that is also present. This was a great move. Most HDMI players out there re-map the RGB output to PC levels when they are converted to DVI. By offering both outputs on the same unit, this eliminates the problem. The video output can be selected in the setup menu for either PC RGB levels or Studio RGB levels. Unless your display is set up for PC RGB levels, we always recommend using the studio RGB output which allows for below-black and above-white information. Like the DVD-5900, this selection is called black level enhancement. With the enhancement setting “ON”, you are using PC levels. With it “OFF”, you are using Studio levels. There is also an IRE setting for 7.5 or 0 in the picture setting menu for the analog outputs."

This may be bad news since most all of us still have DVI connections to our displays (I have a PLV-Z2 with DVI). Can someone verify if there is a way to get studio levels out of the HDMI to DVI conversion so those of us that have to do that can get BTB and WTW from the S97 to our DVI-based displays? Is there a "black level enhancement" setting the the S97 as well? This is not to be confused with the "Black Level" control that has been present in all Panny's for quite some time now, right (that had to be set to Low to get BTB in Progressive output mode)?

I just got my panny from onecall and have connected it to my Sammy HLP.

From the start, are there any settings that I should enable/disable? (similar to the blackness control on the Denon 1910)

Any first time advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Originally posted by RockStrongo
I just got my panny from onecall and have connected it to my Sammy HLP.

From the start, are there any settings that I should enable/disable? (similar to the blackness control on the Denon 1910)

Any first time advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Please post whatever you discover. I plan to be in your shoes in about 3 hours.

In the 'TV Type' in the 'Setup menu', what's the difference between 'LCD TV/Projector' and 'Projection TV.' I have The Panny AE500 LCD projector, so what setting do I use?

The player hase just been delievered to my house and I think I just got flu too. co...u...g....h.... I have to go home soon.

ahro,

I could not see any difference in the type of display selected. It seems like the selection does nothing?

I have yet to see a difference using the "display type" -- but I haven't tried exhaustive tests with each setting.

Paul

This (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4622128#post4622128) is a nice example of macroblocking, and it looks just like what I saw on my Denon 1910 I returned because of it. And fade-to-black or up from black transitions are a great place to see them. I think Paul's right in that just above black IREs are involved and the overall effect is to obscure any picture information in this region. If one's display is smaller and you don't mind turning down the black to the point where all information in the 0-10 IRE range will be crushed, you might not be bothered by it.

It's really too bad Genesis-Faroujda released this chip with this defect, or that Panasonic and Denon implementing the FL2310 haven't applied a workaround consistently. (Kris Deering says it's not there in the Denon 3910 at 720p.)

Dan

Originally posted by AkaStp
Can someone explain to me what the "BlackLevel Control" setting in the Video Setup menu is supposed to do? How does it work? Why should it be set to Darker for 480p output via Component? What if it is set to Lighter for 480p output via Component? What should it be set to for HDMI output?

Also, why is there such a difference in brightness/contrast/color between 480i over component and 480p over component? Is a different brightness/contrast/color scheme used for 480i vs. 480p?
The Black Level Control is setting adjust black level to display using either Brighter (7.5 IRE) or Darker (0 IRE). In any case, reguardless of what setting you use, the picture is the same because it's under the assumption your TV's brightness is adjusted to the black level setting.

The BLC setting only apply when running the player in interlaced. When running on progressive, the player locks on to Darker(0 IRE) reguardless of BLC setting. This is why you notice the difference, so if you set to Darker, the 480i will be identical to 480p.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Radsman
I have been watching Star Wars episode IV (first movie) incrementally over the past few days. I stop the film when I need to, turn the power off, then power the everything down via the power conditioner I use for my equipment rack. When I power it back up, it starts again as if I had put the disk in for the first time. This unit is supposed to remember several disks in its memory according to the manual. In my case:

A. The unit doesn't remember.
B. I need to press a button to make it remember.
C. Powering everything down via the power conditioner (like I unplugged the unit) erases its memory
D. ???

Radsman
It's definately B, however it also possibly be C. The reason I say that is that if you have the S97 unplugged for a very long time(days, weeks you name it), the capacitors for the memory will run out of energy and it'll be lost. This won't be true if this is being saved in a EEPROM or something of that nature.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bojangling
FYI, when I went to the Pansonic website and found a local dealer for the S97 both Best Buy and Circuit City showed up. Area Code 22042 if your interested. Makes me think it will show up at B&M Stores.
The Panasonic web search is unreliable to determine where to purchase DVD players at.

Sango

I have more in stock as of today, though likely gone again today at the rate they move..

Jason

Wow! Must have gone through a "few dozen" at this point! ;)

Paul

Originally posted by EricScott
Please post whatever you discover. I plan to be in your shoes in about 3 hours.

Well, I hooked it up to my sammy and WOW. So far, it is exactly what I have been looking for in a player (I should know since ive been through 3 of em).

Since my TV is ISF calibrated, I adjusted the dvd player picture settings using DVE (brightness, contrast and so on).

I also set the picture type to "Auto". It is cool how it can identify a non-anamorphic DVD and adjust it! I tried Star Wars Episode 2 anamorphic dvd and it looked great. Then, "Young Frankenstein" (non-anamorphic widescreen) and it zoomed in correctly without me having to adjust it. Then, when I played "Casablanca", it showed it in its proper 4x3 mode. Wonderful!

Also, i set the audio delay to 40ms. I think either my tv or receiver has had a slight issue with audio delay. It works great!

Like others, I see a bit of mb, but it isnt bad. I haven't fully played around with the Depth enhancer, MPEG DNR or 3D DNR, but I will later.

Anyone have any advice on those settings?

So far, thumbs up from me!

umm... lets say over 120.... ;) and folks with previous orders in, they will have their units in a few days.

Jason

Jason,

Good news! I'm glad the player appears to be a success.

Rock,

I'm going through my player tonight and post the video settings I've changed from default and will post those settings in the first posting.

Paul

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Well, I hooked it up to my sammy and WOW. So far, it is exactly what I have been looking for in a player (I should know since ive been through 3 of em).

So far, thumbs up from me!

Sounds good. Can't wait to try mine out. This is my first upscaling player so I probably won't have the basis for comparison that you do. Have been on the Samsung 941 pre-order list at TVA since July/August - hopefully will be cancelling that shortly.

Well, I have watched several movies on my unit now and have noticed something that I do not know what it is. I saw it in 2 different movies. In Jersey Girl there were parts of the movie where the upper left corner was not very bright at all. It was like it became very dim outside of the middle of the screen. And while watching The Last Day (or whatever it is called) there was a background that included wood paneling on the walls. It was supposed to be brown, but the color was changing from brown to a grey on and off. Anyone know what that is and if there is a setting that will fix the problem? BTW I'm watching on a Panny plasma. Thanks!

Jersey Girl -- can't say

"The Last Day" --> "The Day After Tomorrow"? In any event the wood paneling issue *might* be a side effect of the macroblocking. It could also be a side effect of the display. I've seen displays that do not handle low level color very well. It could also be the DVD. Haven't seen the DVD yet.

How is the DVD player connected? What resolution?

Paul

I have a DLP projector... No matches.

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Well, I hooked it up to my sammy and WOW. So far, it is exactly what I have been looking for in a player (I should know since ive been through 3 of em).



Just hooked the player up to my HLP and it looks really really good. Just tried a few scenes from LOTR ROTK and Empire Strikes Back. There really are so many options - don't know where to begin. Not going to be able to fiddle much tonight unfortunately.

RockStrongo, given that you've had your Sammy calibrated, if you wouldn't mind posting the picture settings you use on HDMI (i.e. Cinema, Brightness xx, Contrast xx, ... , DNIe On, etc) that would be extraordinarily helpful for me. I feel like I can't really begin tinkering with the DVD player until I have a good baseline on the TV - the player has enough options as is. I pretty much use Cinema mode for everything (certainly for DVDs).

Sorry - didn't mean to highjack the thread :)

Thanks

Panny AE700 & S97 "Owner's Club" :)

(sub-title: How do I configure both at the same time when I don't know what I'm doing?)


This is my first projector and first "real" DVD player (previously I just "a Sony" to hook to my old analog 50" RPTV)

OK, so I've been reading through this & the AE700 "mega-thread" -- but since I've never had a good player or PJ, much of it was unfamiliar to me.

I received both Friday. I feel a bit lost trying to configure everything for the "best" setup, since BOTH the player and projector have many settings that overlap.

For example, in 480p mode, I can use all sorts of "aspect" settings on the S97, and at the same time, my AE700 has a plethora of "zoom" settings.

In the end, I am never sure which is the best, and I find I'm always trying all sorts of combinations. First movie, out-out-of-the box settings (S97: 720p) on both, I tried "Titanic" - but the picture quality did not seem good. Not sure if it was the disc, but it seemed it was not using the full picture - there were a couple of inches of "black bar" on the left and right sides of the image. I've not seen them since since I've been trying all sorts of combinations.

What is the ideal "default" settings? (connected via HDMI)
Should the player be set to 480, 720, etc?
If in 480, where "aspect" choices exist, which should I use?
What "zoom" setting on the FP?
Both player and FP have different preset configs (natural, cinema1, etc)

Argh - too many settings for a dumb newbie!

I bought AVIA, but have not done anything yet. Have not noticed any VB or MB - but I've never seen either and perhaps ignorance is bliss! I did do the "flicker tweak" on the 700 right away, and power it off from the switch after each use (after fan stops).


******

With that said, I watched the Fifth Element after I just got things set up. Maxed out the screen size, put my chair in "about the right place" (with respect to my side surround speakers). Watched the movie and thought "wow".

When it was over, I was curious and measured the screen. 138"!!!!! Whoa....


Originally posted by ahro
In the 'TV Type' in the 'Setup menu', what's the difference between 'LCD TV/Projector' and 'Projection TV.' I have The Panny AE500 LCD projector, so what setting do I use?

I'm not entirely sure which is correct, but I did notice a slight change in brightness between selecting LCD and the others. LCD was a tad brighter.

Paul:

You said that the 480P via component looks very good. Have we determined whether the faroudja chip is utilized with this connection?

Thanks for all of the information you have presented and your continued willingness to answer every single question asked. You should be paid handsomely for the level of detail you are providing.

John

That's no hijack!

Cinema1 or User, to me are the best settings to begin with.

Working on compiling a "starting list" of settings.

Paul

nohjy:

I'll probably figure it out when my get my unit by observing since my anime collection serves a good test on DVD players.

Sango

Originally posted by nohjy
Paul:

You said that the 480P via component looks very good. Have we determined whether the faroudja chip is utilized with this connection?

Thanks for all of the information you have presented and your continued willingness to answer every single question asked. You should be paid handsomely for the level of detail you are providing.

John

No, I have no knowledge of what does the processing at 480p component. It does look good, though. I guess I need to order a service manual.

You're welcome! It's a lot of fun and a lot of work but it's also a lot of built-up energy since the January CES introduction!

Paul

Originally posted by EricScott

RockStrongo, given that you've had your Sammy calibrated, if you wouldn't mind posting the picture settings you use on HDMI (i.e. Cinema, Brightness xx, Contrast xx, ... , DNIe On, etc) that would be extraordinarily helpful for me. I feel like I can't really begin tinkering with the DVD player until I have a good baseline on the TV - the player has enough options as is. I pretty much use Cinema mode for everything (certainly for DVDs).


I wouldn't suggest using my tv settings. They COMPLETELY changed after the ISF calibrator got finished. It was well worth it though.

For the DVD player settings, I am using User with brightness +2 and Contrast +3. I didn't change the sharpness. As for the DNR features, I havent tried those yet...Anyone have any advice?

Your best bet is to use Digital Video Essentials to calibrate it. That way you can get the best pic for your set.

If you have specific questions, pm me.

Good Luck!

Hello,

My DVD-S97 settings are posted in the "first post" FAQ section. It is just a guide, your settings may vary.

Paul

Rock,

I've tried the settings. the MPEG DNR seems to have the most effect. The higher settings of the that adjustement will blur fine picture detail.

Paul

Originally posted by RockStrongo
I wouldn't suggest using my tv settings. They COMPLETELY changed after the ISF calibrator got finished. It was well worth it though.

For the DVD player settings, I am using User with brightness +2 and Contrast +3. I didn't change the sharpness. As for the DNR features, I havent tried those yet...Anyone have any advice?

Your best bet is to use Digital Video Essentials to calibrate it. That way you can get the best pic for your set.

If you have specific questions, pm me.

Good Luck!

Fair enough. What are you using for the HDMI Color Space setting? I have the option of all 3 choices. Currently I'm using 4:4:4, seems more vibrant than RGB, but I keep going back and forth.

Originally posted by EricScott
Fair enough. What are you using for the HDMI Color Space setting? I have the option of all 3 choices. Currently I'm using 4:4:4, seems more vibrant than RGB, but I keep going back and forth.

I was just playing with the same thing. Looks best to me at 4:4:4.

Paul,

Can you explain the transfer mode to me? I see the explanation in the manual, but am still at bit confused.

Auto1 or 2?

Thanks for all your info!

The transfer mode can be set for the material type. Basically, AUTO1 is for film material, AUTO2 is for film and video, and VIDEO is dedicated to video. Sometimes films are mastered in VIDEO mode so having the options is nice should one see a deinterlacing problem. In a nutshell, if you're seeing combing with pans or movement with a particular DVD, try another transfer mode and see if the problem goes away. AUTO1 has been working well for me, so far.

Paul

So here are my tentative (after a very quick run through of DVE) settings for the s97 on my Samsung HLP5063.

Samsung Picture Settings:
(left this more or less at default values except for sharpness; did most adjusting on the S97):
Cinema Mode
Contrast - 90
Brightness - 60
Sharpness - 0
Color - 50

Panasonic s97:
HDMI - 720p / YCbCr 4:4:4
Picture Mode - "User"
- Brightness: +1
- Contrast: -1
- Left everything else (Sharpness, Color, Gamma, DNR) as is at zero

Question about audio - if you are using either the optical or coaxial digital audio out do the various Audio settings (under Display->Other Settings->Audio Menu) do anything? Also do you need to run through the speaker setup in the main Setup menu? I tried running the test tones and was only getting sound out of the front left and right speakers even though I selected multichannel and set my speaker sizes properly. Figure this only applies if you are using the 5.1 multichannel out, which I plan to do at some point.

So far very pleased with this player on my Samsung.

Paul, did you compare it to the XP 50 yet? I'm assuming no as it's not in the first thread. Thank you for all of your hard work BTW.

Originally posted by nohjy
Paul:

You said that the 480P via component looks very good. Have we determined whether the faroudja chip is utilized with this connection?

John

I'm speculating that 480p component out is definitely run through the Faroudja chip. I've set up this players component out running into an Iscan HD so I can compare the Iscan de-interlacer to the Faroudja. The moving plate on DVE (video content) looks superb and better than when utilizing Iscans de-interlacer for video content. Mind that the S97 has to be in video mode for that level distortion free performance.

Everything I've read on the chips used in these devices indicates the Faroudja should provide a better video content picture while the Silicon Image chip should provide better film content image. So that is the bases for my speculation.

I received my s97 from onecall earlier today, I was very excited to use it...
I have tried several movies on it tonight, some burned, some not. My previous DVD player was a cheap apex from wal mart. Every movie I played on this did not look as good as they did on the apex hooked up via S-video. The TV I have is a a a sony KD-34XS955. I hooked it up in 2 diff ways, HDMI to HDMI, directly to the TV, and Component. Is anyone using this tv with this player or mabye the xbr960 and having the same problems or do u think I got a deffect. I am not even sure if I can return it to onecall. The setting I am using on the player are 4x4x4 and 1080i video output mode, everything else is set to standard and 0. Any help at all would be great, I have played with the settings and looked through the manual, I hope I did not get a deffect, there is no reason for a 40$ player hooked up via S-video that looks better than this...

Oh, I have tried 5th element superbit and some others, lonsome dove looked very dull and grainy, and I used a svcd of I robot that used to look pretty good on my old player and looked very dull and digitized on this one.

Any help is good help, thanks in advance...

steeevoboy,

After installing the 'S97 was the Sony TV recalibrated via DVE?

Paul

Originally posted by AkaStp
RE: Samsung Picture Settings: Sharpness = 0
Really? Or is that a typo?

Most Samsung HLP owners that post their settings in the forum set sharpness to 0 including me. :)

Originally posted by AkaStp
What is the range? 0 to 100?
Yes. Zero is off which is why people use that setting to get cleaner edges.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
steeevoboy,

After installing the 'S97 was the Sony TV recalibrated via DVE?

Paul

I do not own the DVE, if I did I would use it, but I never calibrated my apex dvd with it either. Fifth Element SB Looks good, but not that good. Not as good as through S-vid on the other. The other Dvd's that looked descent on my other player, look like sd if not worse on this one. I was really hoping that this would be a huge step up from my old player, not a step down. I am starting to think it might be a defect, I am going to hook up the s97 via s-video next to see if it looks better than the apex, if it does not, I am pretty sure, at least hope that its a deffect...

IMTARUM - When I finally get back home (Thursday) I'll be hooking up the S97 to my Panny LCD RP 14. I'm expecting great things since I'm currently using either a Pioneer 333 S-vid or Philips 985 comp (POJ).

BTW - if you have a unit on order 3-day Fedex (especially over the weekend) check to see when it gets to the depot. Mine got to the depot on Sat, but was not scheduled to deliver until Tues (3rd day). Had One Call change shipment to hold for pick-up & the wife was able to pick it up today.

I'll definately be getting my unit in by tommorow!! Then I'll get to see for myself what htis player can really do. I'm only going to test it via component since I don't have HDMI on my TV and don't have plans to get an adapter at this point in time.

Is onecall still the only one carrying this DVD player? Any word on when B & M stores will be getting it? I've checked the CC stock recently and it's still not even in our system so I don't know if/when we'll be carrying it.

Originally posted by steeevoboy
I do not own the DVE, if I did I would use it, but I never calibrated my apex dvd with it either. Fifth Element SB Looks good, but not that good. Not as good as through S-vid on the other. The other Dvd's that looked descent on my other player, look like sd if not worse on this one. I was really hoping that this would be a huge step up from my old player, not a step down. I am starting to think it might be a defect, I am going to hook up the s97 via s-video next to see if it looks better than the apex, if it does not, I am pretty sure, at least hope that its a deffect...
Why not get DVE and calibrate? It can be had for around $20 shipped on the internet.

hi everyone

i have just ordered the panny s97 with the panny 700(projector), i have an old pioneer dvd with ony scart and s-video so i hope the purshase of the panny s97 wasnt a total waste:p.

by the way i read someware that panasonic was going to stop using the faroudja chip in the s97, does anyone now something about that. i am ordering mine in europe(sweden) and without the faroudja i will send it back.

Paul is there any way to see if your player has the faroudja chip without opening it up(warrenty reasons), and thanks for the great thread you have started about this player.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
[B]

[My settings. Just a "quick quide"

Setup->Video->TV Type: LCD TV / Projector (choose your TV type)


TV Type: I wouldn't touch this setting at all because affects how the picture displays, therefore affecting results.

I'm curious why Panasonic actually added this feature in the S97 because I've seen this feature on my Panasonic DVD-A470EN from Hong Kong. I've seen this also the DVD-S75 and the RP91. I don't find it useful because when I tried myy A470EN on the projection TV setting for my RPTV, the picture didn't quite look as well because the overall picture is darker which didn't look as nice and otherthings were possibly affected as well.

Basically I just leave this on Standard (Direct View TV). Treat it as this feature never existed since the RP82 and RP56 never had this. If you try it on the Standard setting and re-analyze the player again, the result will be different.

Sango

Thanks!! I look forward to it.

I should be able to do a head to head comparison against the RP82/56 and 91 because I have all those players as well.

Just curious AkaStp, did you adjust the BLC and notice that the picture looks the simlar to 480p now? Also just you didn't also adjust the TV type too since I mentioned in my intial post.

Sango

Originally posted by ratflinger
iamtarun - When I finally get back home (Thursday) I'll be hooking up the S97 to my Panny LCD RP 14. I'm expecting great things since I'm currently using either a Pioneer 333 S-vid or Philips 985 comp (POJ).

BTW - if you have a unit on order 3-day Fedex (especially over the weekend) check to see when it gets to the depot. Mine got to the depot on Sat, but was not scheduled to deliver until Tues (3rd day). Had One Call change shipment to hold for pick-up & the wife was able to pick it up today.


thx ratflinger.

i am also using a POJ dvd player (apex).
Getting the s97 would surely make the difference.

Do u know what de-interlacing chip does the lc14 panny use?
if they already use Faroudja, will there be any difference in PQ due to
upscaling.

thx again,
iamtarun

Set up my home theater tonight with the S97 and awaiting the new Toshiba 52HMX84 DLP tomorrow. Played some CDs and MP3s for a while and was impressed with sound quality and options. I was using an old 1999 Sony DVD player 480i with PCM and s-video and thought the picture looked very nice on my "old" 36" tube. I hope I am blown away with this player over HDMI... I have no idea what to expect, but I am expecting the worst and hoping for something amazing.

Originally posted by htwaits
Most Samsung HLP owners that post their settings in the forum set sharpness to 0 including me. :)

Yep, my HLP is set to zero also.

I also adjusted the sharpness in the dvd player to -3 to reduce that halo effect.

Originally posted by Drew224
Is onecall still the only one carrying this DVD player? Any word on when B & M stores will be getting it? I've checked the CC stock recently and it's still not even in our system so I don't know if/when we'll be carrying it.

BB/CC shall not be carrying this player, per Panny salesman I talked to. Only limited dealers. Websites and local shops. Their sales folks can tell u who might carry it. I know in DC Area it is Grafitti Audio(DC)..thats it! Therefore even I ordered it online.

Originally posted by ZoomAir
hi everyone

i have just ordered the panny s97 with the panny 700(projector), i have an old pioneer dvd with ony scart and s-video so i hope the purshase of the panny s97 wasnt a total waste:p.

by the way i read someware that panasonic was going to stop using the faroudja chip in the s97, does anyone now something about that. i am ordering mine in europe(sweden) and without the faroudja i will send it back.

Paul is there any way to see if your player has the faroudja chip without opening it up(warrenty reasons), and thanks for the great thread you have started about this player.

These players do u have faroudja chip. Jason (from Onecall) posted the pics earlier on this thread.

How does this unit compare to the Bravo D1?

Originally posted by mallu2u
These players do u have faroudja chip. Jason (from Onecall) posted the pics earlier on this thread.

The box even has the DCDi by Faroudja logo on it.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Thanks, I'll give it a try.

On my Sammy I also keep DNIe on pretty much all the time (except when watching football - the grass gets distracting). In conjunction with sharpness at zero, I find it looks pretty good.

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Yep, my HLP is set to zero also.

I also adjusted the sharpness in the dvd player to -3 to reduce that halo effect.

Do you keep DNIe on or off when watching DVDs?

Paul,

Thanks for all the great work on the S97S and Sony HDMI players. I think I read in one of your posts that you also own either the gx7 or gx300 and would appreciate your feedback on this(or anyone else who can comment from experience).

How is the DVD playback on GX300 and GX7 compared to the new HDMI units? I have a 37 ED Panny and a Panny PTL500U. I get decent performance with using my Sony 5-disk changer DVP-NC685V via component to the plasma but the picture on the projector lacks focus. I see some double-edging that ruins the experience if I concentrate on it. Maybe I can see the imperfections better since it is magnified with the projector.

I need another player and was close to buying the HDMI S97S but found that i can buy a GX7 for similar cash outlay. I would to take advantage of the recording capability of either the gx7 or gx300 but also want excellent playback, if possible. I read somewhere that these units have the same playback capability as the more expensive NS-999ES, but I have not seen this unit in action so this means little to me.

Do you see a substantially better picture with the S97S compared to your GX recorder? I'd rather forego the recording units if the playback is similar to what I already have.

Thanks for any insight on this.

:)

Rich4av,

I tried to play a couple of PAL region free discs last nite and got scrambled video signals on my TV. Did you do any special adjustment on the S97 to get it to play correctly?.

deekz,

I find the performance of the 'S97 to be better than the 'GX7. The 'S97 has less visible deinterlacing artifacts when compared to the 'GX7.

Paul

Thanks Paul for your review that pushed me over to this player. Onecall should give you a commission for that, right, Jason. :)

My quick take on this player. If you already owned a highly rated 480P dvd players liked the Denon 1600, or Panny XP-30, and your TV does a good job of upscaling than you won't get a wow factor with this player. Since I'm upgrading from some cheapy universal players, this player is quite a nice improvement on the PQ. This player after adjustments did give my movies more depth, details, and sharpness. I watched The Fifth Element after the calibration and the images were more vibrant, more HD like. For a player at this price range, I am happy with this purchase, and I doubted that a player that would cost 2x the price is going to give you twice the better picture.

You're welcome TexGuy! I glad you're enjoying the player.

Originally posted by TexGuy
Rich4av,

I tried to play a couple of PAL region free discs last nite and got scrambled video signals on my TV. Did you do any special adjustment on the S97 to get it to play correctly?.

It looks like you need a PAL/NTSC converter because the player is outputting the PAL video signal.

Just curious,

When I had the Samsung HD931, DCDI was only available through DVI, the component out used a very poor basic type of deinterlacer.

Can the same be said for the S97.

I ask this question because my TV has only one DVI in, i know the S97 has HDMI, (not concerned as the adapter is easily available) but my COMCAST HD cable box is currently using the only one DVI jack i have.

Right now.....I would like to use the S97 as a DCDI component unit, skipping the upconversion part for now.

Can this be done.......does the S97 pass DCDI through component use as well?

Originally posted by Sango
It looks like you need a PAL/NTSC converter because the player is outputting the PAL video signal.

That is what I'm suspected. I just don't see any special settings on the S97. OTOH, that is why I still keep my universal player around just for this occasion since I have a good deal of PAL and multi region dvds.

Maybe I'm dense but can someone explain to me how to properly use the Position Memory feature. It seems like you need to manually set the position memory (only 1 position allowed per disc / 5 discs total) by hitting the PM button on the remote at the appropriate point. The player does not automatically remember when you last left off when you hit Stop (like my old sony does) AFAI can tell.

But how do you access the stored position later? If I put a disc in that has a remembered position and hit the PM button it doesn't do anything.

Also this "Preview Chapters" feature when you hit stop and then play to resume and it pops up a message saying "Hit Play to Preview Chapters" or something like that - it just seems to start at the beginning of the disc and didn't do any sort of preview for me. How is this feature supposed to work? Is it supposed to play say the first 10 seconds of each chapter up to the last stop point? How do you get back to that stop point?

This manual has lots of information but is really really disorganized and doesn't explain things too well.

Originally posted by badabing

Can this be done.......does the S97 pass DCDI through component use as well?

I highly doubted. Since DCDI is for upconversion and there will be no upconversion through component, it will not be utilized at all. Your other option is to get the older firmware Zenith 318 player that can do upconversion thru component.

Originally posted by TexGuy
I highly doubted. Since DCDI is for upconversion and there will be no upconversion through component, it will not be utilized at all. Your other option is to get the older firmware Zenith 318 player that can do upconversion thru component.

I thought DCDi was actually for 3:2 pulldown/deinterlacing, so it takes 480i and converts it to 480p. Not sure if DCDi works for 480p over component, but my guess is that it would.

I can't believe I missed Monday night football........I got my Pany S97 yesterday from One Call and hooked it up to my Sony RPTV 57" WS500 with the monster adaptor DVI>HDMI and worked like a charm. I reset my tv to factory default and plan on calibrating it later with the DVE or Avia inwhich I have both.

First impression was great with a quick setup of the S97 just to make sure the player was working properly and then the fine tuning did the trick......a little more wow than my Denon 1600 and Xp30. I played Shriek 2 and T2 that were handy to start with. I did notice some pinkess in the black bars in the T2 but hope that the DVE calibration will fix . I used User 1 with brightness +1 and contrast -1 with the DNR to + 4 but did not see any real change noticed......But over all I am pleased with this player........I could not believe how Thin the player is to produce such a good picture. I also tried Queen night of the Opera on DVD A using DTS for sound with video showing and it played very well and the sound was equal with the Denon1600. I did not hook up the 5.1 because I have it hooked up to my Sony SACD player........They need to make a cheap switch so folks can listen to both DVDA and SACD or make recievers with 2 5 channel hook ups....LOL like that will happen....my reciever HK 1001 does not have a HDMI inlet.

Over all the S97 is great for the price and all the features is a plus......Thanks to Paul you have done a super job with this thread and player .....For my 2 cents on a RPTV it works great and can't wait until Hollywood gives its blessing on BlueRay for HD dvd movies.......Changes are happening so quick and who would have believed that DVI would be history after One year......HDMI is here for Now.....Enjoy Bob :)

Originally posted by EricScott

But how do you access the stored position later? If I put a disc in that has a remembered position and hit the PM button it doesn't do anything.


When the disc is reinserted into the machine, a message will appear on the screen to press "PLAY". Pressing "PLAY" will resume play at the location where the memory button was pressed.

I'll update the first post to have this information.

Paul

You're welcome Bob. I glad you're happy with the player!

Paul

The S97 must be using Faroudja over component. If you think about it this way, Panasonic is using dedicated chips so you have the Faroudja DCDi and a a the Panasonic MEI MPEG decoder.

Also looking at the FLI2310 PDF (http://gnss.com/products/C0702-PBR-03B.PDF), it can upconvert and do 480p. It's also cosidered like an FLI2200 + FLI2200 on the same chip.

I sure would see the idea of no Faroudja on component if Panasonic is using all-in-one chipsets.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
When the disc is reinserted into the machine, a message will appear on the screen to press "PLAY". Pressing "PLAY" will resume play at the location where the memory button was pressed.

I'll update the first post to have this information.

Paul

Thanks - I guess that's easy enough.

What if you hit Stop after just watching something (don't remove the disc). When you hit Play again does it take you to the stored position or the last position (assuming the two are different).

Is there any difference if you hit Stop and then Stop again?

Still confused about the Preview Chapters feature.

I guess I'm used to my Sony DVD player which was quite intuitive. If you hit stop it stores the last save point. If you hit stop again it clears it. It let me store a bunch of discs (don't know how many) and when I reinsert and hit play it automatically starts from the last point.

The deinterlacing is excellent via component 480p. My *guess* is that Faroudja is used over component.

Paul

make recievers with 2 5 channel hook ups....LOL like that will happen

Sony ES receivers have 2 set of multi-channel inputs (1@7.1 and 1@5.1).

(They have had them for at least 2 generations, and I just found this out.)

Thx Paul...gonna order the s97s then

Here (http://www.onecall.com/PMN_2403.htm?BCPID=119) is the special private sale with the Free Fedex Saver Shipping from OneCall going on for a week (credit to Scott from HTF).

EDIT: Ignore link. Seem to be incorrect as it's already expired as of the 5th.

Paul, just curious do you have plans to write to Panasonic, to make them aware of macroblocking issue and for them to come up with a solution?

I've wriiten Genesis/Sage/Faroudja in an attempt to get to the source rather than try to work up through Panasonic customer service. No response yet. Panasonic next.

Paul

Regarding macroblocking, is it something that can be fixed through a firmware update? What about the slight side cropping while using 1080i or 720p?

Has anyone compared this head-to-head with the Zenith 318 yet? I have the Zenith and, macroblocking aside, there have been a couple of "issues" that have bothered me (motion trailing artifacts, etc.) that I believe are attributed to the 318's MPEG decoder. I'm just curious if the Panny is better. I do not have HDMI right now so would be using the Panny at 480p. Also, if anyone has done a head-to-head, is the macroblocking the same/better/worse?

Sango - I'm looking forward to your 480p report on the Panny!

megamii,

It's a good solution since the MPEG decoder will be re-written from the firmware update.

Physically it's the FLI chipself which is the problem causing it. Hmm is the FLI chip is programmable, then instant fix but that isn't true =(.

Sango

I know someone asked this already, but I didn't see any responses. Does anyone know if there are plans for a black version of this player? I've seen the photo of it earlier in the thread, but no other mention of a "K" model.

I've not seen a "black" version offered for sale.

Paul

Strange that the CMEDIA 2004 they had a black one!! Most likely it was there for demo purposes.

Hmm I could just paint it black... he he he!

thanks mallu2u for the answer about the faroudja chip (pretty strange that panasonic doesnt have the faroudja DCDi logo on the player isnt this something you want to show of). and i hope they dont change the chip until i get my s97:p

does anyone have the panny 700(projector) and the panny s97 running trough the supplied hdmi-hdmi cabel. how does that work and what do you think of the PQ.

Thanks again paul for a great thread

ZoomAir,

Probably bring it to some specialized body ship and give them a templete of a Faroudja logo so they can put on on the unit itself!! =)

ZoomAir,

You're welcome!

Search the thread for AE700

"AstroCat" and "Glen Graham"

have the combination of player / projector.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I've wriiten Genesis/Sage/Faroudja in an attempt to get to the source rather than try to work up through Panasonic customer service. No response yet. Panasonic next.

Paul

I hope you make some head way.

It is my understanding, there is much programming and tweaking of the FLI chipset done by the manufacturer, which contributes to why the FLI2310 might perform a little differently on one brand versus another.

Looking forward to anything you can discover and are permitted to post.

Originally posted by TexGuy
Rich4av,

I tried to play a couple of PAL region free discs last nite and got scrambled video signals on my TV. Did you do any special adjustment on the S97 to get it to play correctly?.

TexGuy,

I was clear in my postings that I used the HDMI output at 720p/1080i and that it output PAL over the component outputs.

You tried the component outputs, right? Those will not convert PAL to NTSC. Try the HDMI or the HDMI-DVI output.

It's incredible what's in these chips (any highly integrated chip) when one looks a the "data sheet". There are all sorts of amazing capabilities (and opportunities to get into trouble) by manipulating the bits in the hex registers.

Paul

Paul -
What are your thoughts on Sango's statement ......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"TV Type: I wouldn't touch this setting at all because affects how the picture displays, therefore affecting results.

I'm curious why Panasonic actually added this feature in the S97 because I've seen this feature on my Panasonic DVD-A470EN from Hong Kong. I've seen this also the DVD-S75 and the RP91. I don't find it useful because when I tried myy A470EN on the projection TV setting for my RPTV, the picture didn't quite look as well because the overall picture is darker which didn't look as nice and otherthings were possibly affected as well.

Basically I just leave this on Standard (Direct View TV). Treat it as this feature never existed since the RP82 and RP56 never had this. If you try it on the Standard setting and re-analyze the player again, the result will be different.
Sango
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you tried "TV type" set on the Standard setting with a RPTV and if one were to do so, wouldn't that possibly affect all of your other initial setting as outlined on page 1 ???????

Good job Paul !

Penton-Man,

I haven't fully explored this avenue (yet). I haven't seen a difference with the settings (and a quick glance) on a direct view LCD TV but haven't gone through all the test patterns with the various TV Type settings to see what differences, if any, truly exist.

I might be in for a surprise!

I do not have an RPTV.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
It's incredible what's in these chips (any highly integrated chip) when one looks a the "data sheet". There are all sorts of amazing capabilities (and opportunities to get into trouble) by manipulating the bits in the hex registers.

Paul

Paul:

I take it this means that you will be rewriting the firmware for the S97 as well as for the Faroudja chip itself! Can you get that done by the end of the week!? My S97 will be here on Friday and I want to get the complete functionality of the player ;) . Seriously though... thanks again for all of your work on this project.

John

John,

Not a chance! ;) It would be nice though......

You're welcome!

Paul

Originally posted by EricScott
Thanks - I guess that's easy enough.

What if you hit Stop after just watching something (don't remove the disc). When you hit Play again does it take you to the stored position or the last position (assuming the two are different).

Is there any difference if you hit Stop and then Stop again?

Still confused about the Preview Chapters feature.

I guess I'm used to my Sony DVD player which was quite intuitive. If you hit stop it stores the last save point. If you hit stop again it clears it. It let me store a bunch of discs (don't know how many) and when I reinsert and hit play it automatically starts from the last point.

Eric: On my old Panny player, if I pressed PM and then stop, it would stop the disk. but if I pressed Stop again, it would erase the memory too. I hope this Panny does not do that. Moreover, I hope there is a setting in menu which automatically remembers the last position, instead of having to press PM button on each disk.

Probably bring it to some specialized body ship and give them a templete of a Faroudja logo so they can put on on the unit itself!! =)

HEHE :D

but i meant that it was strange that panasonic themselves hasn't put the DCDi logo on the player. because lets say that they put the player out on display in some AV dealer. Wouldnt it be preferable for panasonic to have the faroudja DCDi logo on the player if they already paid for the chip i suppose that a faroudja DCDi logo is something the manufacturers want to show of on there products. at least all of the products i have seen with the DCDi chip has the logo someware on the unit.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Eric: On my old Panny player, if I pressed PM and then stop, it would stop the disk. but if I pressed Stop again, it would erase the memory too. I hope this Panny does not do that. Moreover, I hope there is a setting in menu which automatically remembers the last position, instead of having to press PM button on each disk.

I don't think there is a setting which automatically remembers the last position. I think you need to physically hit the PM button.

Originally posted by ZoomAir
HEHE :D

but i meant that it was strange that panasonic themselves hasn't put the DCDi logo on the player. because lets say that they put the player out on display in some AV dealer. Wouldnt it be preferable for panasonic to have the faroudja DCDi logo on the player if they already paid for the chip i suppose that a faroudja DCDi logo is something the manufacturers want to show of on there products. at least all of the products i have seen with the DCDi chip has the logo someware on the unit.

My Sammy HLP has DCDi in it but no logo. I read somewhere that it was more expensive to license the logo in addition to the technology.

Originally posted by EricScott
Do you keep DNIe on or off when watching DVDs?

I keep it on all the time.

My Sammy HLP has DCDi in it but no logo. I read somewhere that it was more expensive to license the logo in addition to the technology.

AHH that must be the reason there is no logo :p

the reason i asked this in the first place was that i read someware(maybe in this forum) that panasonic was going to stop using the chip in the s97, but now i understand that my panny s97 (just ordered from germany to sweden) will have the chip :D


thanks for the reply

Originally posted by ZoomAir
AHH that must be the reason there is no logo :p

the reason i asked this in the first place was that i read someware(maybe in this forum) that panasonic was going to stop using the chip in the s97, but now i understand that my panny s97 (just ordered from germany to sweden) will have the chip :D


thanks for the reply

People were freaking out when they got the Samsung's without the logo on it (esp. since some of the HLPs shipped with the logo, most without) thinking that they didn't have DCDi.

I would imagine that they pay a hell of a lot more for the technology than the logo and would think it would be worth it to have it say plain and clear on the face of player that DCDi is inside but what do I know. I'm in finance, not marketing.

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Have you tried "TV type" set on the Standard setting with a RPTV and if one were to do so, wouldn't that possibly affect all of your other initial setting as outlined on page 1 ???????

Good job Paul !

From my experience, it will affect all the initial settings because it will relates right back to the TV type.

You can select the other TV types to test other results but eventually you'll see that standard should be the best one to use.

Sagno

Originally posted by Sango
From my experience, it will affect all the initial settings because it will relates right back to the TV type.

You can select the other TV types to test other results but eventually you'll see that standard should be the best one to use.

Sagno

What type of TV do you have? I don't want to waste time calibrating my set if I have to then go back and redo it b/c I selected RPTV vs. Standard. Seems like this would obviously be TV specific given that that is what the option relates to. Just curious.

Rich4av:

It seem like the S97 has a built in conversion if it can display PAL on progressive on 720p.

Also thinking about it, isn't the S97 also capable of outputting PAL progressive at it's native 576p? According to the Japan press specs, it's PAL/NTSC progressive.
----------------------------------
EricScott:

I'm using the Hitachi 57TWX20B RPTV currently. I recall when I gotten my very first Panasonic unit, the DVD-A470EN, I noticed that option and didn't bother with it. Then one day I decided to change it to a different setting then tested it. After a viewing my anime as a quick test, I changed it right back to Standard in a flash because I didn't like it at all.

Sango

Sango,

To display PAL as 720p/1080i is not an "NTSC" conversion. It's upscaling to HD resolutions, right?

Originally posted by Rich4av

You tried the component outputs, right? Those will not convert PAL to NTSC. Try the HDMI or the HDMI-DVI output.

I only connected the S97 to my TV thru the HDMI output only and got the scrambled signal. I even switched between 720p and 1080i but no go. I tried with different discs but with the same result.

You're right. Just a thought since I didn't know what display you're using.

I'll probably see scrambed 720p signal when I use a PAL disc on my TV!! (oh!!)
----------------

TexGuy, he must be using a display which supports both signals!! (cheater!!!)

thanks for the replies

the panasonic PT-AE700(projector) thread is now about 126 pages and this thread is about 51 pages. PANASONIC products seem to be popular to discuss.:p

i have an older pioneer dvd(dvd636d) with only scart and s-video, i thought when i ordered the panny 700 why not order the panny s97 and feed the projector with HDMI. i have not used a hdmi player before so i don't now what to expect (will there be a noticeable difference compared to my pioneer dvd) i hope the purchase of the s97 wasn't a total waste.

I'm using the S97 with the AE700, but not with the supplied cable. I'm use a 10 meter HDMI cable I got from bettercables. So far, I like it. I use 1080i but I am still testing different settings.

Jordan "AstroCat"

Originally posted by ZoomAir
thanks mallu2u for the answer about the faroudja chip (pretty strange that panasonic doesnt have the faroudja DCDi logo on the player isnt this something you want to show of). and i hope they dont change the chip until i get my s97:p

does anyone have the panny 700(projector) and the panny s97 running trough the supplied hdmi-hdmi cabel. how does that work and what do you think of the PQ.

Thanks again paul for a great thread

Originally posted by EricScott
What type of TV do you have? I don't want to waste time calibrating my set if I have to then go back and redo it b/c I selected RPTV vs. Standard. Seems like this would obviously be TV specific given that that is what the option relates to. Just curious.

Why are people having issues with this option, just select the correct tv type that you have and calibrate and be done with it. :)

For me, I picked projection CRT since that what I have.

Originally posted by TexGuy
Why are people having issues with this option, just select the correct tv type that you have and calibrate and be done with it. :)

For me, I picked projection CRT since that what I have.

I agree but if people have tested the various settings on comparable displays and feel one yield better PQ than another, then it's relevant. This is why I wanted to know what type of TV Sango is using. I am using a DLP and currently have my s97 set to Projection TV (I'm assuing this a rear projection tv since there is a separate option for LCD TV/Projector)

Originally posted by EricScott
(I'm assuing this a rear projection tv since there is a separate option for LCD TV/Projector)

If you have a DLP then I think the LCD TV/Projector is more appropriate since it is a micro displaying TV also.

I'll have a look a these settings tonight and see what differences, if any, exist between the TV Type settings. I don't have all the TV types to say what is *best*, but if there's a differnce between the settings, hopefully *that* can be seen.

Paul

Originally posted by TexGuy
I only connected the S97 to my TV thru the HDMI output only and got the scrambled signal. I even switched between 720p and 1080i but no go. I tried with different discs but with the same result.

TexGuy,

i can't explain it. Did you get audio while the video was scrambled? If you got audio, then it is likely a display problem. I assume that your PAL DVDs are region-free, right?

In my case, my projector played French PAL DVDs fine. I tried 2 different ones.

Originally posted by Sango
Here (http://www.onecall.com/PMN_2403.htm?BCPID=119) is the special private sale with the Free Fedex Saver Shipping from OneCall going on for a week (credit to Scott from HTF).

Seems to charge me for shipping...any ideas?

Originally posted by bojangling
Seems to charge me for shipping...any ideas?

The free fedex shipping ended on Nov 5th.

Originally posted by Rich4av
TexGuy,

i can't explain it. Did you get audio while the video was scrambled? If you got audio, then it is likely a display problem. I assume that your PAL DVDs are region-free, right?

In my case, my projector played French PAL DVDs fine. I tried 2 different ones.

Rich4av,

yes, the audio was playing fine the whole time. So I think liked Sango said, your projector is abled to play both NTSC/PAL signal fine while my TV can't display the PAL signal. That is the only logical conclusion.

bojangling,

the free shipping has expired on 11/5.

Figured....ah well...the price of procrastination increases.

Originally posted by bojangling
Seems to charge me for shipping...any ideas?

Give Jason from Onecall a call, he'll fix it up. Maybe it did expire but I just saw the link from the original poster.

Sango

Texguy,

When it comes to 720p/1080i, I did not think that there is an ATSC or a PAL version... I am confused. For example, if my HTPC scales a PAL DVD to 1080i/540p, my HDTV shows it. This is no different.

EDIT: Maybe it's the refresh rate? 50Hz vs. 60Hz. I'll check tonight.

Originally posted by AstroCat
I'm using the S97 with the AE700, but not with the supplied cable. I'm use a 10 meter HDMI cable I got from bettercables. So far, I like it. I use 1080i but I am still testing different settings.

Jordan "AstroCat"

Why on earth would you send 1080i to your AE700 from the DVD player. 720p is the way to go so you only scale one time. With 1080i you are scaling the DVD source up to 1080i, then your AE700 wil have to re-scale it back down to 720p, because that is it's native resolution. Why scale twice for no reason and degrade your image?

Well, as I said I am still testing different settings.

Jordan "AstroCat"

Cool.....carry on with all of the fun!

I'm sure with the increase of users and as the number of topics and posts increase there is going to be some sort of load on the server. Perhaps another "archiving action" is in order.

Paul

Originally posted by TexGuy
If you have a DLP then I think the LCD TV/Projector is more appropriate since it is a micro displaying TV also.

Really? I thought "Projector" was referring to a front projector.

Originally posted by TexGuy
Why are people having issues with this option, just select the correct tv type that you have and calibrate and be done with it. :)

For me, I picked projection CRT since that what I have.

People (me and others) are having "issues" because Sango posted this earlier .......

TV Type: I wouldn't touch this setting at all because affects how the picture displays, therefore affecting results.

I'm curious why Panasonic actually added this feature in the S97 because I've seen this feature on my Panasonic DVD-A470EN from Hong Kong. I've seen this also the DVD-S75 and the RP91. I don't find it useful because when I tried myy A470EN on the projection TV setting for my RPTV, the picture didn't quite look as well because the overall picture is darker which didn't look as nice and otherthings were possibly affected as well.

Basically I just leave this on Standard (Direct View TV). Treat it as this feature never existed since the RP82 and RP56 never had this. If you try it on the Standard setting and re-analyze the player again, the result will be different.
Sango

Hi Paul,

So the Sony in the comparison has green depression and there's some talk of the Panny plasma having a green push. This would offset and make for an interesting combo? Of course, there are compromises.

vdmai,

I haven't seen the Pansonic plasma "green push" so can't say if a combination of the Sony DVD and the Panasonic display would balance out. The "green depression", in my view, is the result of the upconverting player utilizing the SD color matrix for the HD signal. I'm not saying the Sony player is in error, but because certain HD capable displays are unable to be configured to utilize the SD color matrix with HD signal, the end, visible result is the "depressed green". This end result can be seen utilizing the Avia "color decoder" pattern and green filter.

An upconverted signal with the Panasonic 'S97 has no "green depression" with my Pansonic LCD TV.

Paul

Originally posted by Rich4av
pocoloco, the HDMI-DVI connection only allows the RGB color space. I use standard HDMI color range. I cannot tell you which is which.

As Paul noted, it does pass BTB/WTW.

Rich, you should be using Enhanced color range with your HT1000. Standard has elevated blacks which are pretty obvious when you view 2.35 material. Enhanced color range brings black levels down to where they should be at the same time passes BTB/WTW info.

pocoloco, the blacks look great and I did calibrate with Avia/DVE so BTB is as good as I can make it on my DLP pj. I will check it out though.

Excuse me if you have already answered this question. Where did you manage to purchase the the DVD s97 from??????

I've tested the player for quite a while now.

Imprressions of the player is very good.

I've tested this on my Hitachi 57TWX20B via component and a *cheap* Symponic 27 via video composite!

I started off on the Symponic to see how the unit does in interlaced. I avoided using my Hitachi because it automatically upscales it to 540p/1080i. When watching my anime material, the colors produced from this unit is very natrual in fine detail. I've also noticed that the video is very smooth, and much more smoother than my RP82. When watching the unit on my Hitachi, it was pretty much noticed very similar results which does eventually surpass the RP82.

I haven't checked for macroblocking yet but I'll try and find something later on.

Audio performance on analog is quite superior. It does very similar to the RP82 but it sounds slightly differnt that I couldn't really say it sounded better ot not.

The unit's operation is very quiet, quieter than the RP82 and just by listening to the internal parts moving and spinning the disc, it sounds exactly like my A470EN's internals!!.

I've also used AVIA's vertical 10 IRE steps and brightness steps to find black/white crush however, I didn't find any. What I'm being hold by another AVS member that the problem is possibly visible on DVI/HDMI.

The settings I used are pretty much defaults and adjust other options for my HT receiver. Some minor stuff I changed:
GUI See-through: On
FL Dimmer: Auto
Auto Off: On

Sango

I went through all of "TV type" settings with my LCD display and I sure don't see a differnce with any of the DVE test patterns. Maybe there's a difference with "regular" material but I didn't see any difference with test patterns.

Paul

I checked the PAL DVD playback on my projector:

- Through component, I got 50Hz refresh rate, PAL signal.

- Through HDMI, I got 50Hz refresh rate, 720p/1080i.

This clears the PAL playback issue... With a 50Hz-capable pj, motion is quite smooth.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I went through all of "TV type" settings with my LCD display and I sure don't see a differnce with any of the DVE test patterns. Maybe there's a difference with "regular" material but I didn't see any difference with test patterns.

Paul

I performed the same tests using DVE test patterns and came to the same conclusion. Using brightness, grey scale ramp, color, sharpness, and the various rez patterns I see no difference when using the different display settings. No indication of changes in gamma either.

I'm beginning to think there's a few features on this player that possibly either haven't been activated nor are solely there for marketing purposes. I can not perceive any difference when using the "depth enhancer" or the "3D- NR" either.

Hugh2,

I'm about to reach that same conclusion with the "Depth Enhancer" and "3D-NR" as well but wanted to try a few more things. There are so many permutaions of the options that maybe some combination will cause them to have an effect.

Paul

I don't know if this question has been addressed..but does anyone know if this player plays Dvd +R and Dvd +RW discs. There is no mention in the specs and I know that Panasonic is not in the Plus camp but I thought I remembered some time back in this forum that people speculated that the S97 would play these discs..Anyone???

corybuff,

Read through the first posting in this thread.

Hopefully, it will answer most of your questions. :)

The answer to the question is "Yes".

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I went through all of "TV type" settings with my LCD display and I sure don't see a differnce with any of the DVE test patterns. Maybe there's a difference with "regular" material but I didn't see any difference with test patterns.

Paul

Thanks SO much Paul. I'm glad that you appreciated the importance of that trial and jumped right on it.

If you had reached the opposite conclusion ......it would have opened up a whole new can of worms.....and I aint no fisherman.

Originally posted by Hugh2
I performed the same tests using DVE test patterns and came to the same conclusion. Using brightness, grey scale ramp, color, sharpness, and the various rez patterns I see no difference when using the different display settings. No indication of changes in gamma either.

I'm beginning to think there's a few features on this player that possibly either haven't been activated nor are solely there for marketing purposes. I can not perceive any difference when using the "depth enhancer" or the "3D- NR" either.


Thanks to you too Hugh2 !!!!!!!!
It's always good to have corroboration from a second source.