Panasonic DVD-S97S FAQ / Brain dump [Text View] - Page 7

EricScott

11-22-04, 10:36 AM

Just wanted to point out (thanks to mallu2u) an interesting feature of the s97 that has been discussed in a thread on the Samsung 941 - maybe this is obvious to everyone but it wasn't to me. Apparently the s97 will output over [b]Component and HDMI at the same time[b] without changing any settings on the player or removing the HDMI cable (which you need to do in the 941). Pretty useful if you want to hook the player up to two separate displays.

My question is - can you set the component output resolution (480i vs. 480p) if HDMI is active, or does the s97 simply output the best possilbe resolution (480p) automatically? It seems to me that you can only set one output format in the Picture menu, which would correspond to the HDMI output format. If you choose 720p for example, then does component just default to 480p or can you force it to accept 480i?

Paul Bigelow

11-22-04, 10:39 AM

Eric,

Yes, It's been discussed. 480i over component, simultaneously when HDMI is active. I haven't found a way to make it 480p while HDMI is active.

Paul

mallu2u

11-22-04, 10:47 AM

Eric: I have to try it out (If 480p (component) vs. 720p (HDMI) is possible, for sure). Do not remember what I was comparing to. Shall also go in the SM of the TV and make sure what is the output resolution. Will report back.

Kenlex

11-22-04, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Yes, It's been discussed. 480i over component, simultaneously when HDMI is active. I haven't found a way to make it 480p while HDMI is active.

This behavior makes sense, if you think about it:

I don't know anything about how the Faroudja scaling/de-interlacing chip works, but my guess is that it probably takes the digital stream in and simultaneously scales and de-interlaces. Its output would be whatever the HDMI is set to -- 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Presumably the **input** to the Faroudja is the digital stream at 480i. Since the player isn't supposed to upscale over component, the only "source" that could feed the component output's D-A converters when the HDMI output is set to upscale would be the stream that's input to the Faroudja -- which is the 480i stream. (One could envision an exception in the event the HDMI is set to 480p, but that would probably require additional internal logic and switching.)

So the behavior Paul describes is reasonable. And certainly more user-friendly than the behavior of players that simply shut down the component outputs when the digitial output is in use.

Sango

11-22-04, 10:57 AM

I don't think it's physically possible to be able to display two different resolutions over two differnet formats at the same time. The reason - Faroudja in use when used for HDMI output, so it can't be used on component. Most likely the other way applies as well except HDMI doesn't allow interlaced because of the current implementation (probably a firmware update can make this work).

Sango
----

Update: AkaStp already proved it wrong!!

Kenlex

11-22-04, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by AkaStp
I'm able to get both 480p over component and 720p over HDMI-DVI.

Hmmmm... proves my theory wrong!

Sango

11-22-04, 11:41 AM

oh yikes, I'm bad too lol!!

silvertone

11-22-04, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by AkaStp
I'm able to get both 480p over component and 720p over HDMI-DVI. It does initially default to 480i over component but after you've changed it it does seem to stick. If I recall, you turn HDMI, view using component, set to 480p, set HDMI back on, set to 720p. Then, if you go back to component it will still be at 480p. With both the component and HDMI-DVI feeds to the same TV, if I select the component inputs on the TV the S97 displays a U-70 error because the HDMI is not terminated. Doesn't affect the 480p over component though. Setting HDMI Video to off in Setup gets rid of the U-70 error and turns off HDMI output. Note: I have NOT tried sending 480p over component to one display and 720p over HDMI-DVI to a different display. However the above does seem to confirm that the S97 **can** output both 480p over component and 720p over HDMI-DVI at the same time.

Same here. I can get 1080i/720p over HDMI and 480p out of component at the same time. It does default to 480i on the components when you first try this, but you can change it to 480p. By the way I have done some comparison between these two and I cannot tell much difference, as a matter of fact the compoment output overall picture looks better to me, go figure. The color saturation though has to be set to -2 on component for accurate 480p color rendition as opposed to +2 when using HDMI. Has anyone else noticed this also? I used a blue filter along with the Ovation software to determine this.

Sango

11-22-04, 11:53 AM

silvertone:

I left my S97 all picture related settings at standard since it looks perfect in blue bars. Same with my RP82 if I used that as well. I'm only using component as well.

Sango

silvertone

11-22-04, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Sango
silvertone:

I left my S97 all picture related settings at standard since it looks perfect in blue bars. Same with my RP82 if I used that as well. I'm only using component as well.

Sango

My RP82 was definately on the money as far as the color settings. This one is definately 'too hot' right of the box on component and too low on HDMI @ 4:4:4 (at least with my tv set which was profesionally calibrated).

EricScott

11-22-04, 12:22 PM

Thanks for all the responses re: simult. HDMI and Component output. Definitely a nice little feature of the s97, which other comparable players don't seem to let you do.

mallu2u

11-22-04, 03:53 PM

Anyone played a superbit dvd on this player? How does it perform?

RockStrongo

11-22-04, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by mallu2u
Anyone played a superbit dvd on this player? How does it perform?

I have quite a few superbit DVDs -

MIB
MIB 2
Gattaca
Spiderman
Starship Troopers
The Patriot
Dracula
Air Force One

So far, they all look good, but I do not have the other versions to compare. They exhibit film grain though just like other movies, but I reduce it using '+1' on the MPEG DNR.

silvertone

11-22-04, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by mallu2u
Anyone played a superbit dvd on this player? How does it perform?

I watched the s.b. version of The Fifth Element...PQ was excellent, lots of shadow details and excellent colors. I did liked the 480p component presentation better than HDMI-HDMI 1080i/720p.

Paul Bigelow

11-22-04, 04:33 PM

mallu2u,

I have the superbit of "Lawrence of Arabia". Great disc, great picture. A little bit of macroblocking in the nightime desert scene just before they set out to Aqaba.

Paul

mallu2u

11-22-04, 04:52 PM

Thanks guys! Was just looking into some superbit titles and therefore the Q.

TomMiller

11-22-04, 04:52 PM

Not to get off topic, but I found the Superbit Lawrence DVD unwatchable due to ubiquitous edge enhancement.

NismoZ

11-22-04, 04:58 PM

silvertone:

Can you say what you did like better with going back down to 480p over the 1080i res?

What display type do you have? CRT, RPTV or fixed Pixel?

Anybody else experience this or any other tweeking elements you'd like to share?

silvertone

11-22-04, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by NismoZ
silvertone:

Can you say what you did like better with going back down to 480p over the 1080i res?

What display type do you have? CRT, RPTV or fixed Pixel?

Anybody else experience this or any other tweeking elements you'd like to share?

I have a Sony 34XBR960 Tube TV. In 480P mode (component) to me the colors look more vibrant, detail looks about the same. If I had a bigger screen I could probably disect the image more.

SteroMAdMAn

11-22-04, 09:42 PM

I just watched the Chronicles of Riddick on this thing last night and wow it looked freakin' GREAT! Someone said it would have tons of MB in the dark scenes but didn't see any for the duration of the movie. I'll prolly watch it again tonight cause it loked so cool!

collinp

11-22-04, 10:32 PM

I recently brought home both the Sony and the Panasonic upconverters for comparison. Sadly both of them are going back for different reasons.

The Panasonic is a very slick player. Very responsive. Nice fast rewind and fast forward. Quick tray loading. Nice auto scaling modes (non-anamorphic zoom and 4:3 pillarboxing). No CUE or ICP. Beautiful film-like DCDi images. With all video enhancements set to normal I didn't see any white or black crushing, though it wasn't passing blacker than black. This could possibly be a display issue as I don't have much experience with the DVI port on my set (a Samsung DLP HLN-507W). But.......

The macroblocking! You have got to be kidding me. It's a complete disaster. I'll trade a little sharpness and keep my RP82. The chief reason folks on this forum want an HDMI based player is for picture quality, but macroblocking is a major destroyer of picture quality. I would argue that it is a much more significant issue than CUE. At least CUE was relegated to the edges of brightly color objects. Macroblocking covers large swaths of screen space. Its present to some degree in all low IRE material, but really becomes apparent in dark scenes. It's a shame really, because on bright scenes the images this player produces can take your breath away.

For me the Sony has to go back because it has DVI negotiation issues with my TV. Others have reported similar issues on various displays. It can be made to work, but it requires turning components on in a certain order and possibly some rapid plugs and replugs of cables. The wife is not going to like that dance just to watch a DVD.

The Sony player is also a nice player. It feels sturdier than the Panny and is equally responsive in terms of menus and navigation. It has a very fast layer switch. Its detectable, but just barely. Much faster than the Panny, which has an average layer switch time.

In terms of picture quality there are no macroblocking issues. In normal settings I didn't notice any black or white crush, but again didn't see blacker than black. The fine detail is more pixelated than the Panny, which tends to roll off the fine detail in a more film like fashion. Remember the American Flag DCDi comparisons? < http://www.gnss.com/dcdi.phtml> That's not a bad estimate of the difference in picture quality between these two players. There are reports that the Sony has the chroma error. In my opinion it does not. None of the classic Secrets tests discs demonstrate it. I think some folks may be misinterpreting non-DCDi stairstepping for CUE. I didn't notice ICP, but I don't have the test disc Secrets uses for ICP.

The Sony does not convert the SD color matrix on the DVD to the HD matrix. This means that green can appear depressed on displays that don't handle the SD color matrix (very few displays do). It is clear that the Sony's green channel is lower than the Panasonic on my display. It is also clear that the green channel on the Panasonic over HDMI looked a lot like the green channel on my RP-82 over component, so the Sony is definitely doing something different. My display is know to be very green happy, so this turned out to be less of a problem than I expected.

It should also be noted that both players have resolution drops on 4:3 and anamorphic zoomed material. The Panny looked a little worse for this, but it's debatable.

So there you go a head to head. I probably would have kept the Sony, green depression and all, if the DVI negotiation had worked reliably. I would have not only kept, but truly loved the Panasonic if it weren't for the macroblocking.

- Collin

EricScott

11-22-04, 11:03 PM

collin,

Thanks for the informative review. On my Samsung HLP the MB hasn't been that bad yet - maybe I'm just not that sensitive to it. I do hope Panasonic comes up with some sort of firmwire fix but I'm not counting on it.

Are you going to try the Samsung 941? Curious to see how that performs. Obviously there was a lot of fixing that needed to be done to the 931 and 841 but given Samsung's continual delays releasing the 941, maybe they worked the kinks out.

iamtarun

11-22-04, 11:16 PM

Paul Bigelow

11-22-04, 11:33 PM

Thanks Collin,

I've been able to pass BTB with the S97 by setting the S97 USER brightess to +1.

The loss of resolution via the 4:3 pillarboxing has been noted. It can be seen in the pictures. The Momitsu does better -- the Momitsu "zooms" much better as well.

Haven't had disasterous results of the macroblocking. I've only seen the player on two direct view displays. I can sometimes find it if looking for it in scenes I think it will happen -- but only sometimes. It's really strange. I can see it in certain parts of "Ben Hur" and "Lawrence of Arabia" for example, but not see it at all in "The Tuxedo" or "Joy Ride". I can boost contrast and brightness way up and see some further occurances -- but not always. It's an interesting artifact. Perhaps the macroblocking is partly related to the noise level in the master video transfer --> less noise = less macroblocking.

Paul

collinp

11-23-04, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by EricScott
collin,

Thanks for the informative review. On my Samsung HLP the MB hasn't been that bad yet - maybe I'm just not that sensitive to it. I do hope Panasonic comes up with some sort of firmwire fix but I'm not counting on it.

Are you going to try the Samsung 941? Curious to see how that performs. Obviously there was a lot of fixing that needed to be done to the 931 and 841 but given Samsung's continual delays releasing the 941, maybe they worked the kinks out.

I'll quite likely checkout the 941 when/if it ships. My hopes aren't too high as the 931 & 841 don't make a good track record.

The HLN DLP sets shipped with a gamma setting which crushed whites and blacks. I calibrated mine via the service menu and the picture is outstanding.

I haven't received my HLP yet but reportedly the factory settings are a bit more accurate. It is possible however that blacks are still crushed a bit by default on the HLPs. If this is the case it could really help hide the macroblocking. If you aren't finding shadow detail annoyingly absent and your not seeing much macroblocking, I'm not sure I'd touch a thing.

If you want to check for black crush check out the 10 IRE window on Avia. The window should be just barely visible against the black background. If you get up close to your set you should see it as a constantly moving dither pattern in the window and solid black for the background. DVE has some patterns which show more subtle gradations of black in the low IREs.

If you want to see macroblocking check out the shadow detail on Fellowship of the Ring. The black rider chase on the way to the Prancing Pony has some bad moments, but the issue is visible in almost any dark scene. It manifests itself as these sort of slowly morphing splotches.

- Collin

millerwill

11-23-04, 12:03 AM

collinp: Have you tried the Denon 2910, and if so, how do you find it in comparison to the Panny S97 (I know it costs twice as much, but the question is, is it better or not.)

collinp

11-23-04, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow

Thanks Collin,

No, thank you for two excellent threads (this one and the 975 thread). They are providing a wealth of information.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow

I've been able to pass BTB with the S97 by setting the S97 USER brightess to +1.

Is this really passing BTB or is this just raising the value of black so the BTB is now visible?

Uhm, that's not very clear, maybe I should use numbers. I think video black is supposed to be something like 12. Leaving 0-11 for blacker than black info. Is adjusting user brightness just raising black to say 15, allowing the upper BTB info to be visible at 12-14, but still clipping everything from 0-11? This would probably mean that white would need to be lowered to keep from crushing. Shifting these values would have the result of lowering the effective range of the image and causing your display to need recalibration.

This is probably academic as few if any will be able to see the difference.

- Collin

htwaits

11-23-04, 02:07 AM

Many people changed gamma to either zero or one.

collinp

11-23-04, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by AkaStp
Colin, do you recall what the as-shipped gamma setting was on the HLN DLP and what it was changed to as a result of calibration in the SM?

I don't want to turn Paul's nice Panny thread into a Sammy tuning thread. The RPTV forum would be a good place to ask such questions.

Some notes though :

- WARNING : There are options in the service menu like AUTO_COLOR which can permanently detune your set.
- WARNING : The service menu settings change per input and sometimes per protocol. Write everything down for every input before you tweak.
- HLM & HLN firmwares are sort of similar. HLP firmwares are not even close.
- Default gamma is 4. Gamma 0 is about 2.6 and the only accurate curve. Gamma 1 is closer to 2.4, but not a smooth curve.
- Adjusting the gamma alone is not enough. Just switching to Gamma 0 will result in a picture which looks way to dark. RGB GAINS, RGB CUTS, S_BR, S_CT will all need to be readjusted.
- While gamma setting is the same between sets. Other peoples gains and cuts won't be accurate.

Okay. I'll stop talking about Samsung calibration in this thread. You can PM with specific questions or post in the RPTV forum.

- Collin

htwaits

11-23-04, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by AkaStp
On the Sammy HLM/HLN DLP TV? If so, what was it set to before changing to zero or one?
HLN.

You would have to look at the HLN tweak threads to get the default settings. They may have varied but probably not as much as the HLP sets seem to.

Here is a link to a thread that is now in archive2. If you follow any links in this thread that do not work just follow the instructions to change "www" to "archive2" and you will get to the link. You can't post in archived threads but you can PM posters to ask questions.

Default SM settings for HLN437W (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3121666#post3121666)

reincarnate

11-23-04, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by collinp
I recently brought home both the Sony and the Panasonic upconverters for comparison. Sadly both of them are going back for different reasons.

The Panasonic is a very slick player. But.......
The macroblocking! You have got to be kidding me. It's a complete disaster. I'll trade a little sharpness and keep my RP82. The chief reason folks on this forum want an HDMI based player is for picture quality, but macroblocking is a major destroyer of picture quality. I would argue that it is a much more significant issue than CUE. At least CUE was relegated to the edges of brightly color objects. Macroblocking covers large swaths of screen space. Its present to some degree in all low IRE material, but really becomes apparent in dark scenes. It's a shame really, because on bright scenes the images this player produces can take your breath away.
It should also be noted that both players have resolution drops on 4:3 and anamorphic zoomed material. The Panny looked a little worse for this, but it's debatable.

So there you go a head to head. I probably would have kept the Sony, green depression and all, if the DVI negotiation had worked reliably. I would have not only kept, but truly loved the Panasonic if it weren't for the macroblocking.

- Collin
Simple isn't it? This entire gigantic waste of time thread can be distilled by Collin's accurate and TO THE POINT review.

The CUE issue is WAY overrated in comparison to MACROBLOCKING, which can occur any time there is dark scenes in the picture.

The bottom line here is to simply not purchase any player that uses the infamous Genesis technology to perform its Digital Signal Processing. Their technology uses only uses 8 bits of precision and thus truncates valuable picture data. Crappy PQ results. So simple its stupid.

And the same strategy goes for displays. Sony is a safe bet here, as they use 12 bits of bit depth for its driver signal processing. One major reason their PQ is fantastic!

Just think of all the returns...

RockStrongo

11-23-04, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by reincarnate
Simple isn't it? This entire gigantic waste of time thread can be distilled by Collin's accurate and TO THE POINT review.

Wrong.

I still love my panny. I watched all 3 Indiana Jones movies this weekend and did not notice any mb at all. I also watched the movie 61* and did notice some occasionally, but it was not distracting.

So, to say that it is a bigger problem than what Paul has already stated is opinion only.

This thread has been very helpful to many people whether you like it or not.

jrock65

11-23-04, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by reincarnate
Simple isn't it? This entire gigantic waste of time thread can be distilled by Collin's accurate and TO THE POINT review.

The CUE issue is WAY overrated in comparison to MACROBLOCKING, which can occur any time there is dark scenes in the picture.

The bottom line here is to simply not purchase any player that uses the infamous Genesis technology to perform its Digital Signal Processing. Their technology uses only uses 8 bits of precision and thus truncates valuable picture data. Crappy PQ results. So simple its stupid.

And the same strategy goes for displays. Sony is a safe bet here, as they use 12 bits of bit depth for its driver signal processing. One major reason their PQ is fantastic!

Just think of all the returns...

Great! Now that you've made it clear that this thread is a "waste of time" and a brainchild of Paul's "ego", maybe you'll do us a favor and stop posting!

Wow... you made it so plain for us... Macroblocking is a death knell for DVD players, hence the S97 sucks, and this is "so simple its stupid." Gosh, I feel so enlightened now... :rolleyes:

EricScott

11-23-04, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by collinp

I haven't received my HLP yet but reportedly the factory settings are a bit more accurate. It is possible however that blacks are still crushed a bit by default on the HLPs. If this is the case it could really help hide the macroblocking. If you aren't finding shadow detail annoyingly absent and your not seeing much macroblocking, I'm not sure I'd touch a thing.

That's what I'm thinking - ignorance is bliss. Haven't had my HLP ISFed yet but I plan to once I finally find an HD STB that I'm happy with. I managed to get a pretty good picture out of the HLP with minimal tweaking using Cinema mode.

If you want to check for black crush check out the 10 IRE window on Avia. The window should be just barely visible against the black background. If you get up close to your set you should see it as a constantly moving dither pattern in the window and solid black for the background. DVE has some patterns which show more subtle gradations of black in the low IREs.

Don't have Avia but I used DVE to calibrate the Sammy and the s97. As Paul pointed out, setting Brightness to +1 on the s97 is the ideal setting for me.

koopalei

11-23-04, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Wrong.

I still love my panny. I watched all 3 Indiana Jones movies this weekend and did not notice any mb at all. I also watched the movie 61* and did notice some occasionally, but it was not distracting.

So, to say that it is a bigger problem than what Paul has already stated is opinion only.

This thread has been very helpful to many people whether you like it or not.

Agree, I also bought the S97 base on this thread.

I also love my S97, even with major MB on my Pany PT-50LC13. Of course it is not the perfect DVD player, but a bargain for under $300

I've tested the Bravo D2 and the Zenith 318, and they both were too unstable for me.

Koop

collinp

11-23-04, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by reincarnate

The bottom line here is to simply not purchase any player that uses the infamous Genesis technology to perform its Digital Signal Processing. Their technology uses only uses 8 bits of precision and thus truncates valuable picture data. Crappy PQ results. So simple its stupid.

And the same strategy goes for displays. Sony is a safe bet here, as they use 12 bits of bit depth for its driver signal processing. One major reason their PQ is fantastic!

It certainly seems like there is some sort of clipping / round off error going on here, but do we really know its something as simple as Genesis using 8 bits of precision? How do we know Sony is using 12bits? My gut tells me that this is more likely a bug in Genesis' current line of silicon than a design decision, but who knows. Comparing the same scenes on the RP82 with the older Faroujda chip there isn't the slightest hint of macroblocking even after its been scaled to 720p by my set.

The sad part of it is that I truely love the Genesis part. I've got an Panny RP82 and a Yamaha C920 both based on the classic Panny/Faroujda guts and their picture quality is impressive. The current crop of Faroujda based digital players have the potential to beat the pants of the RP82 family (or any other component based player), alas for macroblocking. I tend to agree that for the videophile its probably best to steer clear of Genesis for this generation of silicon. I might check out the Denon 3910, but folks still report MB issues on that box, which is really, really unexceptable when you consider the price.

The Sony PQ is good, but its not DCDi. The flag example is very apt in this case. The Sony is a little more pixelated and less film like. For me its a toss up between the smooth film like image of a component based DCDi player and the more pixelated but much sharper HDMI Sony image. Of course like I said the decision was made for me by the Sony not communicating reliably with my TV.

- Collin

iamtarun

11-23-04, 02:24 PM

Collin

Did u get the S97 from online store or from a B&M store?

thx

Mtnmike

11-23-04, 02:24 PM

So the question arises will the Sony 975V be more likely to communicate reliably with the latest SONY wide screen rear projection LCD and Plasma TVs?

Sango

11-23-04, 03:45 PM

collinp:

I didn't know DVD players have "pants" he he he!! Luckily I still have my Panasonic family with me - 3 RP82s, 2 RP56s, 2 RP91s and 1 A470EN lol!!

Rest assured Panasonic is working on the problem. I do want to see the S97 surpass the RP82 myself as well.

Sango

murphman

11-23-04, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by mallu2u
Anyone know where I can buy this player, besides onecall (out of stock)?

vanns has them in stock

just purchased mine today and will be trying it on the new sony XS955 CRT
direct view 4:3 TV;)

silvertone

11-23-04, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Sango
collinp:

I didn't know DVD players have "pants" he he he!! Luckily I still have my Panasonic family with me - 3 RP82s, 2 RP56s, 2 RP91s and 1 A470EN lol!!

Rest assured Panasonic is working on the problem. I do want to see the S97 surpass the RP82 myself as well.

Sango

I hope Panasonic does address this for their customers. If anything it will give them bragging rights for having hands down the best dvd player out there.

Paul Seletsky

11-23-04, 09:07 PM

I recently acquired a Dell W1900 LCDTV display. This unit has a DVI-HDCP input port. Will I be able to use an HDMI to DVI converter for the DVD-S97's HDMI output port in order to utilize the HD upconversion features inherent in the unit? Will there be any signal loss? Do you recommend any converters in particular?

htwaits

11-23-04, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Paul Seletsky
Will I be able to use an HDMI to DVI converter for the DVD-S97's HDMI output port in order to utilize the HD upconversion features inherent in the unit? Will there be any signal loss? Do you recommend any converters in particular?

You can use a cable with a DVI connector on one end and a HDMI connector on the other. If you already have either a DVI or HDMI cable you can add an attachment to provide the connector that you need. The only draw back is that solution is the added weight.

There is no signal loss unless the cables or connectors are defective. HDMI is fully backward compatible with DVI.

Paul Bigelow

11-24-04, 11:34 AM

Hello,

Since the S97 comes with an HDMI cable, a DVI adapter, if it will fit, can be used. Monster makes a HDMI-DVI adapter but it is fairly bulky.

Paul

Penton-Man

11-24-04, 02:24 PM

Paul

Check your PM box please.

Paul Bigelow

11-24-04, 02:28 PM

PM responded to.

Paul

paul623

11-24-04, 03:28 PM

Hi everybody from the UK, I have just ordered the s-97 MR @ $440 :-( for delivery on Friday :-) to feed my IF 7025, I think I will be one of the first as dealers only got stock this week! I will post my initial findings of this European version asap

Paul

Sango

11-24-04, 03:38 PM

paul623,

I believe yours will have the SCART connector?

Sango

EricScott

11-24-04, 03:50 PM

Amazing disc to play on the s97 (don't laugh) - Phish's IT - it's this HD PBS special with amazing sound (5.1 mixing is fantastic) and visuals - lots of dark scenes with good shadow detail; good fade to and from black scenes - no MB (granted not very fast motion but still). Overall the s97 really looks sick on my Samsung DLP at 720p. Enjoy.

paul623

11-24-04, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Sango
paul623,

I believe yours will have the SCART connector?

Sango
Hi Sango yes this will be in addition to the U.S. spec, I will only be using hdmi ,and component (for comparison)
I am in trepidation about the MB issue, I have been using a pioneer 668 a Euro hybrid model based on the elite model but without the up conversion great picture, though some hand shake probs with the 7205 ! I have been trying to find a post from someone ho has run the 97 with 7200/7205 for a opinion regarding the MB with this combination no luck though

Paul

buonforte

11-24-04, 06:15 PM

I bought the S-97 today and took it back after testing it out for a couple of hours. The picture quality is good but certainly no better than my Sony DVP-NS715P. Even with upscaling set to 1080I, my Sony still looks better, and that's just using component video.

The MB on the Panasonic is atrocious! Because of this, it ruins what could have been a nice player. After 3 hours of viewing several DVD's noted for their reference quality, I just couldn't stand it anymore and it was back in the box you go.

As far as the upscaling goes, I'm beginning to think that this is nothing more than marketing hype, having tried three up converting players and could not see any difference in PQ. As I've said, my Sony progressive scan looked better to me than the Panasonic at 1080I, using an HDMI cable.

By the way, I'm using a Toshiba 52HM84 52in Hi Def DLP set.
I am very disapointed with the S-97. I can't believe Panasonic would bring this to the market.

I think I'll just stick with what I've got and wait for true HD DVD players.

Al

jrock65

11-24-04, 06:24 PM

Do cheap $130 DVD players such as the Panasonic DVD-F87 have macroblocking as well?

Phil Upton

11-24-04, 07:05 PM

buonforte - what about 720? I hear that that looks better on many DLP's then 1080I.

buonforte

11-24-04, 07:07 PM

I tried both 720 and 1080. Both made little if any difference.

Al

Phil Upton

11-24-04, 07:18 PM

AkaStp - what if someone, like me, doesn't have an existing DVD player? Would you think it's worth it compared to what else is out there at this price? serious question.

htwaits

11-24-04, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by buonforte
... my Sony progressive scan looked better to me than the Panasonic at 1080I, using an HDMI cable.

By the way, I'm using a Toshiba 52HM84 52in Hi Def DLP set.

I'm curious why you added extra processing by outputting 1080i to a native 720p display device.

I've assumed that you set the S97 to output to a 16x9 screen and took advantage of all the configuration information available in this thread.

It helps people like me who haven't had a chance to try the S97 to get all the details possible. :)

htwaits

11-24-04, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Phil Upton
Would you think it's worth it compared to what else is out there at this price?
That makes sense to me. The display that you have or expect to have might be an important factor too.

htwaits

11-24-04, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by AkaStp
After 3 weeks of painstakingly comparing many different DVDs on my Panny F87 at 480p over component and the S97at 720p over HDMI-DVI ...
I enjoyed your report. Maybe I missed it, but I would like to know what TV you have.

It's interesting how ~30% improvement means different things to different people. :)

Phil Upton

11-24-04, 07:43 PM

That makes sense to me. The display that you have or expect to have might be an important factor too.

:cool: Me so solly! :cool:

I'm getting a Samsung HLP5674W this weekend. Hopefully it's a great match.

EricScott

11-24-04, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by htwaits
I enjoyed your report. Maybe I missed it, but I would like to know what TV you have.

It's interesting how ~30% improvement means different things to different people. :)

htwaits,

If you still have your 5063, give this player a shot. I don't think you will be disappointed. I can barely (if at all) see MB and I think the PQ is significantly better than my Sony 725P was. Curious how the 941 will measure up on the Sammy.

htwaits

11-24-04, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Phil Upton
I'm getting a Samsung HLP5674W this weekend. Hopefully it's a great match.
It should be.

htwaits

11-24-04, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by AkaStp
... bulb is at 5500 hours
That's an achievemnet in itself. Normally no one reports on long lamp life. :)

htwaits

11-24-04, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by EricScott
If you still have your 5063, give this player a shot.

I do but I'm using my PC with TheaterTek at the moment and like that. I'll probably check out the HLP5674 (big screen greed :rolleyes:) when we get back from our trip to see some of the grandchildren.

Curious how the 941 will measure up on the Sammy.

If they don't get away from using PC color space or educate me as to how white and black crush can be avoided, I'll pass on the 941.

Paul Bigelow

11-24-04, 08:50 PM

AkaStp,

Sorry the S97 didn't work out. These things happen. Hope the experience was interesting anyway!

For me one huge benefit is the ability to scale to 1080i to bypass the Panasonic LCD display's mediocre scaling at 480i/p. In this case even the great XP50 is not a good match for the display (but it serves well at the Hitachi plasma).

HD-DVD or BluRay should be awesome.

Paul

saf1

11-25-04, 12:05 AM

Does anyone within this thread have this player (S97) connected to a Sony KF-60WE610? If so, are you using the DVI port or component? If I go with this player, or the new Sony DVP-NS975V, I would need to get a DVI switch box...

In either case, I have been looking at these two players. I have read both threads that Pual put together on these players (thanks by the way, nice work!) and ready to replace my Toshiba 5700 (pauses at random times even though the disk is clean/new).

I currently have my HD Receiver from direct tv (with tivo) using the dvi connection so a switch would be needed unless I move it to component. One thing I'm noticing is that I still have a lot to learn regarding the signal patch the components take and their respective resolution...

Anyway - if anyone has tried the S97 on a sony rear project grand wega series (the KF line I guess?) - could you let me know your thoughts? I'm still reading up on umr's tweak guide but not pulled the trigger on executing them just yet. Still learning the tv, etc.

Great forum again, and nice work Paul.

-scott

koopalei

11-25-04, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by saf1
Does anyone within this thread have this player (S97) connected to a Sony KF-60WE610? If so, are you using the DVI port or component? If I go with this player, or the new Sony DVP-NS975V, I would need to get a DVI switch box...
:
:
-scott

If your Sony has RGB connection, the D* HD box should have RGB out and it looks better than component, not sure how it compares to DVI.

For me, I mostly use my Pany LCD Rear Projection to watch HD programming, so either connection would look great. So I dedicate the DVI port for the S97, since its component 480P out is no where compare to the HDMI 720p/1080i

Koop

Mtnmike

11-25-04, 02:46 AM

____________________________________________________________
AKSTP: If I didn't already have a DVD player and I had an extra HDMI input to my TV then I most likely would not have returned the S97. After all, if its upconverting to 720p over HDMI and it costs $300-400 then it must be better. Plus with nothing to compare it against there is no disappointment about any marginal improvements.
____________________________________________________________

You can have an extra HDMI. Gefen makes an HDMI switcher with two HDMI source in and one out which you can switch between components manually or with the included remote feeding the HDMI out in this case to your TV. That certainly would solve your single HDMI problem.

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2208

They've also announced a 4-way switcher

htwaits

11-25-04, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by Mtnmike
You can have an extra HDMI. Gefen makes an HDMI switcher with two HDMI source in and one out which you can switch between components manually or with the included remote feeding the HDMI out in this case to your TV. That certainly would solve your single HDMI problem.

One big catch. This is from the Gefen product description.

This product will ONLY support digital video signals.

ahro

11-25-04, 08:18 AM

I have the Sharp LCD flat panel Aquos. I see NO dfifference at all on HDMI 480p, 720p and 1080i using the S97. In fact Lawrence of Arabia Superbit had edge enhancement over HDMI, and looked better over component on my RP82. Does anyone know if there should be a benifit over HDMI upconversion with the flat panel LCD? It's odd unless I'm missing some tweak.

Paul Bigelow

11-25-04, 10:40 AM

ahro,

In viewing the DVE freq. resp. test patterns via the Panasonic TC-22LH1, some EE at 480p was noted while at 1080i (the display doesn't support 720p) the pattern looke unenhanced.

In viewing Lawrence, I'm seeing some EE at 480p and to a lesser degree at 1080i.

Now the question is: Is my display introducing the EE at 480p as this EE result seems to be consistent amongst players at 480p - regardless of connection type? The Panasonic at 1080i the DVE freq. resp. pattern looks unenhanced.

So, in using 1080i with the Panasonic as the point of reference, I'm thinking that Lawrence has a bit of EE.

Paul

Shazam9999

11-25-04, 12:25 PM

ahro

11-25-04, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
ahro,

In viewing the DVE freq. resp. test patterns via the Panasonic TC-22LH1, some EE at 480p was noted while at 1080i (the display doesn't support 720p) the pattern looke unenhanced.

In viewing Lawrence, I'm seeing some EE at 480p and to a lesser degree at 1080i.

Now the question is: Is my display introducing the EE at 480p as this EE result seems to be consistent amongst players at 480p - regardless of connection type? The Panasonic at 1080i the DVE freq. resp. pattern looks unenhanced.

So, in using 1080i with the Panasonic as the point of reference, I'm thinking that Lawrence has a bit of EE.

Paul

Thanks, Paul. I'm surprised the Lawrence Superbit would have EE. Nontheless, I've seen this in other Superbits on my setup, and again no difference when it's upscaled. For some reason the S97 over HDMI doesn't function at its best with my flat panel. When I had my Panny AE500 there was a difference in favor of the S97 HDMI over my RP82 component. Now, I find myself watching DVDs over the RP82. (as I recall your Panasonic TC-22LH1 doesn't have HDMI).

I also compared Starship Troopers Superbit over both players, and the S97 had more video noise over HDMI than the RP82 over component. Discouraging.:(

Paul Bigelow

11-25-04, 02:21 PM

ahro,

Actually, the TC-22LH1 does have HDMI (one of the first displays that utilizes it) and was one of the major reasons for acquiring the DVD-S97 -- single cable for digital audio and video.

Paul

Penton-Man

11-26-04, 04:52 PM

Great story AkaStp. I'm glad you re-considered your decision!
If anything it adds to the user feedback base for all of us.

But I'm really wondering if your wife is simply making you believe that you are very cunning and that .....SHE..... is well informed about every purchase decision you make !

Sango

11-26-04, 04:55 PM

Pretty good turn of events AkaStp. Hope to see your results soon. Hmm maybe get the 2002 Pannys too for comparision? =)

Paul Bigelow

11-26-04, 05:32 PM

Hello AkaStp!

Just make sure you make the right decision for yourself.

Enjoy the player.

Paul

Hughman

11-26-04, 11:09 PM

Sango,

This is a very short follow-up of our discussions of "TV Type" and what effect they have if any. Paul and I felt there were no apparent changes in an image when flipping through the settings while you and others felt you definitely perceived a changed. Well I just noticed tonight that I did perceive differences when flipping through the different TV Types and the only difference tonight as opposed to my previous trial was that I was using one of the picture presets (Cinema 2) whereas before I using "User" mode.

I haven't delved deeply into this by using test ramps and such but after a few minutes of trial it appears that the "TV type" settings may work when using the picture mode presets but they have no effect on the image when in "User" mode.

Might be helpful if someone wishes to second and third this.

Paul Bigelow

11-26-04, 11:15 PM

Hello Hugh2,

Thanks for the report! I'll give it a try.

Sorry I've been a bit scarce as of late. Been trying out a new LCD display. It was unsuccessful at displacing the Panasonic TC-22LH1. Did give 720p HDMI-HDMI a try though. More later.

Paul

ahro

11-27-04, 07:35 AM

Paul -

I'm very much interested in your results with HDMi>HDMI on the LCD. What kind was it? Flat panel i assume.

bent98

11-27-04, 08:31 AM

Im going to be getting a Sammy 61-63W or 56-85 and was wondering if I should get a Panny S97 over HDMI or run Zoom Player with FFHshow over DVI and upscale to 1080i. How does this Panny unit compare?

Phil Upton

11-27-04, 09:45 AM

bent98 - can't comment on your question but you should also look into the 5674 Samsung as well. Real nice set. Comparable in PQ to the 85. They're just arriving over the last couple weeks. Getting mine tomorrow! Can't wait. I'll report how well the S97 plays on my set once I use it for a little while. Just had the cable box switched out for an HD cable box, Scientific At Explorer 3250HD. Having high hopes here.

bent98

11-27-04, 10:11 AM

I would love to get a 5674 but I cant afford the extra expense. I just dont understand why its so much more expensive then the 5685 model.

Paul Bigelow

11-27-04, 10:50 AM

Hugh2,

Comfirmed your finding. At the very least, changing "TV type" will alter the picture if "USER" is NOT selected in "Picture Mode".

For example, in "Normal" picture mode, selecting "TV type" of "Projection" in the Setup menu will result in a somewhat brighter picture.

Paul

Paul Bigelow

11-27-04, 11:42 AM

ahro and everyone,

I've been using HDMI->HDMI on an LCD TV (Panasonic TC-22LH1) for the vast majority of the reports -- it's the inteneded TV for this player.

However, I tried a Sharp LC-26GD6U -- *loads* of features, unbelievable array of adjustments and connection possibilities. It is D-VHS friendly. Built in HD tuner. The price was excellent. Like my previous attempt with the LC-26GA4U, all of the technilogical whiz-bang added up to nothing because of the picture quality.

Not to have a "Sharp" TV review here but to relay how the 'S97 fared with the TV:

For some reason the Sharp would make an occcasional loud "crack" or "pop" noise through the internal speakers when using HDMI (this was true if either the Panasonic or Sony HDMI players were connected). Very disconcerting. No problem with HDCP negotation. With HDMI slight jitter with DVE vertical freq response noted at 1080i. 720p was rock solid.

The "macroblocking" was much worse as compared to the TC-22LH1. No doubt about it. Here's a theory: the Sharp is not as good as the Panasonic in two ways:

1. False contouring -- circular enhancements in facial tones, for example
2. Low level color reproduction -- low level color crushed to gray or near gray

Both of these artifacts, IMHO, amplify macroblocking because each, under the right circumstances, can resemble macroblocking. Both can look "splotchy" and generate "steps" where there shouldn't be. The Panasonic TC-22LH1, in my experience is *stellar* at eliminiating false contouring and at reproducing low level color -- regardless of the signal being sent.

For example, there is a beginning nighttime scene in "Ben Hur" with the Star of Bethlehem in sky that has a subtle shade of decreasing blue leading up to the star -- perfect for checking low level color and false contouring. With the TC-22LH1 and the Momitsu V880, this blue fades very smoothly. With the TC-22LH1 and the S97 there is the beginnings of some macroblocking seen but it isn't bad, IMHO. With the Sharp LC-26GD6U -- whoa! Macroblock (combined with the other mentioned artifacts) galore! Same results with 1080i and 720p. Not pleasant at all. The Sony via HDMI was somewhat better but the Sony player has some issues with low level color as well. I should have tried the Momitsu via DVI to the Sharp in this case but didn't. I had seen enough of of the Sharp false contouring and crushed low level color with HD sources to have a good idea as to how it would fare (not very well).

To sum up the Sharp display of 'S97 macroblocking: if one has a display that is particulary susceptible to false contouring and/or crushes low level color to gray (or near gray), then macroblocking, combined with the other artifacts, may produce an unsatisfactory picture.

Also, the Sharp "stuttered" with pans with the S97 (1080i/720p). Not smoothl. The picture would take on a shimmering appearance with cetain rates of panning. This effect seemed to seen more at 1080i than at 720p. The Panasonic TV does quite well and is smooth at 1080i.

The Sharp went back.

IMHO

Paul

millerwill

11-27-04, 12:20 PM

Paul: From what I've read from you (or others here), the s97 gives very good results over HDMI at 720p for a Sammy HLP. Is that correct?

Sango

11-27-04, 12:53 PM

Huge and Paul,

Yup, that's what I mean. It seems like "user" mode disables the TV type?

I use both standard TV type and picture mode. Originally I was told by AkaStp(I think it was) that me and several others noticed differences because we're using component but that doesn't seem to be the case now with your obervations.

My question for both of you - is the black and white crushing show up on the standard TV type and picture mode with your hook up?

Sango

ahro

11-27-04, 02:17 PM

Paul,

I don't see any of the artifacts you're talking about on my Sharp LC-32G4U, newly purchased when I sent back the Panny AE 700 PJ to PP (who finally were okay with my returning it because of convergence problems). In any case, the only thing I see is video noise on some dark scenes on the Sharp and I believe this to be a source issue, as it seldom shows up over HDTV, only DVD.

Now I do have an issue -- but it's with the S97. There is NO difference in 480P, 720P and 1080i over HDMI. The Sharp apparently does all the work, so the S97 really serves no purpose for me except the one cable for video and audio. My RP82 looks just as good, maybe even a little better because i suspect the supplied HDMI cable doesn't pass a clean signal. I'm looking to buy a high-end HDMI cable but no B&M stores in Manhattan seems to carry it (very few players with HDMI yet, I guess). I've checked Radio Shack, Best Buy and even Home Depot. Maybe Circuit City or J&R has it.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
ahro and everyone,

I've been using HDMI->HDMI on an LCD TV (Panasonic TC-22LH1) for the vast majority of the reports -- it's the inteneded TV for this player.

However, I tried a Sharp LC-26GD6U -- *loads* of features, unbelievable array of adjustments and connection possibilities. It is D-VHS friendly. Built in HD tuner. The price was excellent. Like my previous attempt with the LC-26GA4U, all of the technilogical whiz-bang added up to nothing because of the picture quality.

Not to have a "Sharp" TV review here but to relay how the 'S97 fared with the TV:

For some reason the Sharp would make an occcasional loud "crack" or "pop" noise through the internal speakers when using HDMI (this was true if either the Panasonic or Sony HDMI players were connected). Very disconcerting. No problem with HDCP negotation. With HDMI slight jitter with DVE vertical freq response noted at 1080i. 720p was rock solid.

The "macroblocking" was much worse as compared to the TC-22LH1. No doubt about it. Here's a theory: the Sharp is not as good as the Panasonic in two ways:

1. False contouring -- circular enhancements in facial tones, for example
2. Low level color reproduction -- low level color crushed to gray or near gray

Both of these artifacts, IMHO, amplify macroblocking because each, under the right circumstances, can resemble macroblocking. Both can look "splotchy" and generate "steps" where there shouldn't be. The Panasonic TC-22LH1, in my experience is *stellar* at eliminiating false contouring and at reproducing low level color -- regardless of the signal being sent.

For example, there is a beginning nighttime scene in "Ben Hur" with the Star of Bethlehem in sky that has a subtle shade of decreasing blue leading up to the star -- perfect for checking low level color and false contouring. With the TC-22LH1 and the Momitsu V880, this blue fades very smoothly. With the TC-22LH1 and the S97 there is the beginnings of some macroblocking seen but it isn't bad, IMHO. With the Sharp LC-26GD6U -- whoa! Macroblock (combined with the other mentioned artifacts) galore! Same results with 1080i and 720p. Not pleasant at all. The Sony via HDMI was somewhat better but the Sony player has some issues with low level color as well. I should have tried the Momitsu via DVI to the Sharp in this case but didn't. I had seen enough of of the Sharp false contouring and crushed low level color with HD sources to have a good idea as to how it would fare (not very well).

To sum up the Sharp display of 'S97 macroblocking: if one has a display that is particulary susceptible to false contouring and/or crushes low level color to gray (or near gray), then macroblocking, combined with the other artifacts, may produce an unsatisfactory picture.

Also, the Sharp "stuttered" with pans with the S97 (1080i/720p). Not smoothl. The picture would take on a shimmering appearance with cetain rates of panning. This effect seemed to seen more at 1080i than at 720p. The Panasonic TV does quite well and is smooth at 1080i.

The Sharp went back.

IMHO

Paul

Sango

11-27-04, 02:25 PM

I don't want to be off topic again, but quoting a post that size is unnecessary because it's a waste of space.

EricScott

11-27-04, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by millerwill
Paul: From what I've read from you (or others here), the s97 gives very good results over HDMI at 720p for a Sammy HLP. Is that correct?

I have my s97 connected to an HLP5063 over HDMI - using 720p and I would say the results are "very good" - signficantly better than my Sony 725 over component (on that player I kept PS off since I felt the picture was better when the Sammy received 480i vs. 480p). If you have an HLP, get this player and try it out. I don't think you will be disappointed.

ahro

11-27-04, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Sango
SaI don't want to be off topic again, but quoting a post that size is unnecessary because it's a
waste of space.

Sango.

You're right of course, I'm glad the same thing can't be said of an 86 page thread. Sorry.

Sango

11-27-04, 05:52 PM

eheheh, yup you got me there!! Not just me who mentioned about it thou, Paul did too.

Hughman

11-27-04, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hugh2,

Comfirmed your finding. At the very least, changing "TV type" will alter the picture if "USER" is NOT selected in "Picture Mode".

For example, in "Normal" picture mode, selecting "TV type" of "Projection" in the Setup menu will result in a somewhat brighter picture.

Paul

I just finished some additional testing using grey ramps and brightness pluge patterns the results surprised me a little. I'm using an X1 PJ and "TV Type" is set to LCD/PRojector.

For testing contrast I set the level just where the two whitest bars begin to become one color but left it so I could barely see the lower bar. My contrast setting is 50 when adjusted like this. I then flipped through the tv types and then readjusted the contrast to maintain the same level of brightness on the ramps IE: the upper two bars just beginning to crush. I similarily tested for brightness using the pluge test pattern I had to re-adjust to the following contrast and brightness settings to achieve the same reference levels:

....................... Contrast................ Brightness
Standard/Direct. 56.............................47
CRT..................56.............................47
LCD/Projector.....50 (reference).............48
Projection......... 66.............................42
Plasma............. 50.............................48

As you can see there are varying contrast and brightness levels among the TV types. The projection setting offers the most significant level changes offering what I consider significantly less contrast and an elevated black level when compared to any of the other. As one might expect the LCD/Projector attempt to give the impression of a brighter picture in comparison with the other settings with a slighter darker black level using this setting.

If you have a setup dvd it goes without saying (but I will anyway) the all the levels of contrast and brightness in the above settings can be adjusted out by using the control of the pj.

I also checked for color changes and didn't perceive any, though I did not check for sharpness or gamma changes.

Sango

11-27-04, 07:24 PM

Hugh2,

So I assume not black crushes?

yangsta

11-27-04, 08:35 PM

Is this a good dvd player for my Panasonic TH-42PD25U?

Please let me know! Thanks in advance!

Paul Bigelow

11-27-04, 08:39 PM

Hugh2, Sango, and ahro,

Good work, Hugh! It appeared to me that LCD and Plasma had the same effect.

Sango, I went through the TV type and modes rather quickly last night, but if I recall, the "Standard" TV type did pretty well with the various Picture mode settings with the "Dynamic" being the most invasive and I think the only one to crush white. As I recall, with "LCD/Projector" all modes except "USER" would crush white.

ahro, upconversion might not be necessary for everyone. If the TV has a good scaler (I think the Sharp 26GD6U does) then the benefits of upconversion might be minimal. The Panasonic TC-22LH1 display does a mediocre job of scaling 480i/p to the native resoluion while 1080i is scaled much, much cleaner. So, 1080i is fed to that TV every time (720p isn't allowed). Despite its limitations, I think the Panasonic is spoiling me. I have tried to replace that TV several times because it doesn't have a lot of features and 1080i is really the only input resolution to use with the set, still the 1080i is just gorgeous. It is also one of the few sets in its size (22") to have three HD-capable inputs (Samsung LTP-227W comes to mind as the other one). To me the Sharp 26GD6U picture looks very "busy" with lots of, noise and blocking whereas the Panasonic is very, very smooth. Just my observations.

Paul

EricScott

11-27-04, 09:45 PM

Hugh2,

I'm assuming your findings were consistent with Paul's - if you are using the User picture setting then the TV Type doesn't matter? Which picture mode did you use on the s97 for your calibration tests?

Hughman

11-27-04, 11:02 PM

Sango,

Depends where you're coming from, if your display is calibrated properly using the "projection" tv type setting then switching to any of the other settings will cause "crushin" of black detail. To be honest I'm not sure what crushing is at this point, I've always taken it to be loss of specific IRE content which could not be retrieved through adjustment of other components in the chain. I have witnessed this type of crushing with the s-97 but can't remember right now under what circumstances. All crushing I've encounterd so far could be calibrated out using either the Isan or projector controls therefore doesn't really meet my criteria for crushing. But please take note that I've had far too much wine and will probaby regret anything I've posted tonight.

Paul,

Thanks.

Eric, for setting the reference level I used "cinema 2". I should note to all that I'm running the S-97 via 480i component output into an Iscan HD.

I also have to note that between the brightness and contrast levels which can be derived from the multitude of different TV type and video mode settings the final result is an absolute fuster cluck of options which, if nothing else, meets requirements of marketing criteria but really is so redundant, imo, has no added value.

And to answer your other question, the TV type settings are not active when in "User" mode but only workable when using one of the presets.

Penton-Man

11-27-04, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
jvc,

Lawrence of Arabia (Superbit) is a *major* evaluation disc for me. The Superbit version was mastered under the direction of Robert Harris who helped with the now famous original restoration. The previous DVD version (with the nice book) was not mastered under his direction and Mr. Harris is unhappy with that version.

Still, "Lawrence..." is a amazing motion picture acheivement. Despite some flaws in the original negative because of the filming conditons (heat), the fine swirling sands at night, subtle textures in the color of the sand, and the sunrise are amazing tests for a DVD player.

If one hasn't seen "Lawrence", take about four hours and have a treat.

If ever a movie was ever made for the big screen, Lawrence it IT.

IMHO

Paul

Geez guys –

Just when I thought I had everything dialed in, the “TV Type” thing rears its ugly head again (No offence – only through dialogue do we achieve improvement !)

So I guess the question becomes should we still select “User” on the Picture menu and negate all of the above or go with Normal, Cinema1, etc. and start tweaking the “TV Type” to get the best picture……. and is that going to be dependent on all of our individual displays - to add yet another set of variables ?

I need some relief here so I’ll post a pertinent thread to Paul’s quote that some may find interesting and cathartic – because I love the SB version also.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/robertharris/harris073003.html

Sango

11-27-04, 11:31 PM

I guess you can experiment with the settings to see what looks good to you.

I personally prefer standard TV type and normal picture because it works great on my TV. Also my RP82, also use standard picture related settings which works also great. Even thou my TV isn't ISF calibrated, it's well cablibrated from the factory so I'm not worried about it being ISF until later.

Sango

Paul Bigelow

11-27-04, 11:53 PM

Penton-Man,

That's a great article and it pleased me to no end that a "Superbit" version would be released. In this case, the "Superbit" was more than just a remastering but a revisit and shows that despite an extensive restoration films still find a way to deteriorate.

Another favorite of mine "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" is crumbling before us and I hope it isn't too late.

I think as far as choosing a "TV type" I would simply choose the TV type based upon the display and work from there. One could go nuts trying to find the "best" combination from the multitude of choices and the endless permutations (not that it wouldn't be fun ;) ). I chose "LCD" for my LCD TV type and utilize the "USER" settings. If I had to choose something else, I would choose "Standard" TV type and then proceed.

Paul

koopalei

11-28-04, 01:50 AM

Hi,

Has anyone tried to play audio CD with this player?

With "bitstream" or "PCM" setting for Audio, and connection via optical to my
Dolby Digital and DTS processor, no sound is coming out. My RP-56 works
fine with the same setting

I can't find anything in the manual

Koop

MDeB

11-28-04, 02:49 AM

I haven't had any problem with CD audio. I use the optical out to a 2-channel DAC.

I did notice that when I tried to play a DVD-Audio through my TV (Panasonic TC-22LH1) the audio wouldn't go through HDMI to the TV because the content is copy-protected (CPPM).

While I am generally happy with the S97, I think it is not as user-friendly as it could be:

1. The instruction book is confusing, poorly organized, and often indecipherable. It is hard to find out how to do what you want to do, or what various functions actually do.

2. When you play an audio CD, the front panel display does not show the track number and the time elapsed simultaneously. You have to switch back and forth using a button on the remote, FL Select as AkaStp and EricScott helpfully pointed out, but that information is buried in the manual. I teach music and I often need to know the track number and time point of an excerpt I want to play in class. Just about any CD player will show both, as does my Sony DVP-NS500V.

3. Again when playing an audio CD, there is no simple way to put the player in track-repeat or disc-repeat mode without going through on-screen menus. The Sony DVP-NS500V has a repeat key right on the remote, and confirms the setting on the front panel display. OK -- maybe this is a minor gripe, but sometimes it is nice to put a track or disc on repeat, and it is annoying to have to turn on the TV to do it.

Sango

11-28-04, 03:05 AM

Unforunately with the FL display, it doesn't show both track and time elasped at the same time I preferred with the RP82 which does that.

koopalei, just curious are you trying to play a copied disc? If you are that maybe causing it. I noticed I have a similar problem but using coax. If I were to use a original disc first which works, then using a copied disc will work after.

Sango

koopalei

11-28-04, 03:58 AM

MDeB,
What do you mean by 2-channel DAC? I have "optical out" connected to a
Technics AC3/DTS Sound Processor, same way I use for DVD sound. This is
the exact setup I had with my Pany RP-56, and it worked before. I could choose
2-channel stereo, Surround or DTS (if my source is DTS audio), but now with
the S97 no sound coming out

Sango,
The audio CD I tried was an original disc, and using FL-Display I can see the
time advancing, but no sound.

I have tried both Bitstream and PCM for audio out with no success,
I also turn off Sound for HDMI, but that should not matter, right?

Will play with it some more, must be something trivial that I missed

Koop

Sango

11-28-04, 04:08 AM

koopalei:

Seems like a glitch. It shouldn't matter if HDMI sound is on or not. I pretty much have the sound related settings at default except both DTS/DD set for bitstream and the PCM output to 192khz. Did you try to reset the player? Maybe try coax and analog?

Sango

cpc

11-28-04, 09:35 AM

Does the S97 have VGA out for 480p, 720p and 1080i?

Paul Bigelow

11-28-04, 10:20 AM

cpc,

No. No VGA / SVGA - type connection. HDMI / component / S-Video / composite.

Paul

Paul Bigelow

11-28-04, 10:37 AM

Koop,

No problem here with commercial "redbook" CD via optical as connected to a Panasonic SA-XR10. All audio setup and audio menu settings are at "default" --> "up to 48khz", "bitstream", for example.

Paul

MStanic

11-28-04, 10:52 AM

Does anybody know if it's possible to use the HDMI connection for video only and then use the tos or coax for digital audio out? This is how I would have to connect this player or the Sony seeing as my receiver does not have an HDMI connection.

Paul Bigelow

11-28-04, 11:07 AM

Yes. See page 7 of the S97 manual. Set HDMI Audio in the SETUP to "off".

Paul

koopalei

11-28-04, 12:47 PM

Just figured it out about my sound problem, some how "Multi Re-Master"
was set to "1", and it needs to be OFF. Manual P.9 says it may not work with
audio CD disc. This button toggles through all the 3 settings, it should not work
that way, since kids can hit it by accident.

Koop

Sango

11-28-04, 03:20 PM

koopalei,

Yikes!! I never use the remaster feature. I like sound at it's original. In any case, good thing you gixed the sound problem.

Sango

Sango

11-28-04, 04:08 PM

I don't think that's true but I'll email to Panasonic just in case.

Unless he's referring about the intial recall due to the HDMI problem which happend a few months back.

Paul Bigelow

11-28-04, 04:51 PM

Hello,

I've registered my S97 with Panasonic and have not received a recall notice.

Paul

Hughman

11-28-04, 05:23 PM

I've been playing around with this player with the Iscan out of the loop and have noticed faint parallel black vertical lines plague almost every scene when using 480P. I don't see this when running 480i or 480p into the Iscan or 480i directly into the X1. What generally will cause this and has anyone else experienced this with the S97?

I also notice excessive vertical streaking noise while in this mode.

Thanks.

Sango

11-28-04, 05:33 PM

Nope, never seen it before using component.

goldenegg

11-28-04, 06:00 PM

I returned my S97 to Future Shop today. I was told it was good that I brought it back as they were asked to return their shipment. However, he said replacement units were expected within the next two weeks. I wonder what's going on. Could it be a minor hardware flaw which Panasonic is trying to fix?

millerwill

11-28-04, 06:46 PM

I just got a s97 for my hlp6163 and found some major discrepancies with the settings that have been reported in this thread. Specifically, on using DVE (title 12, chapter 14--reverse gray ramps) to set black and white level, I had to set Brightness to +5 (with HDMI set to 'enhanced') and +7 (with it set to 'standard') to get the black level right. (White level came out correct with Contrast set to -1, as others have reported.)

Has anyone else had to set Brightness this high? Also, I found the 'pink tint' in the white area of the above DVE test pattern to be VERY noticeable.

I got this player to see if it would be as good as the Denon 2910 that I now have (for $400 less!), but so far I believe I will keep the Denon and return the s97.

EricScott

11-28-04, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by millerwill
I just got a s97 for my hlp6163 and found some major discrepancies with the settings that have been reported in this thread. Specifically, on using DVE (title 12, chapter 14--reverse gray ramps) to set black and white level, I had to set Brightness to +5 (with HDMI set to 'enhanced') and +7 (with it set to 'standard') to get the black level right. (White level came out correct with Contrast set to -1, as others have reported.)

Has anyone else had to set Brightness this high? Also, I found the 'pink tint' in the white area of the above DVE test pattern to be VERY noticeable.

I got this player to see if it would be as good as the Denon 2910 that I now have (for $400 less!), but so far I believe I will keep the Denon and return the s97.

Try using 4:4:4 for the HDMI color space setting. I found that I preferred the picture vs. RGB at either Stanard or Enhanced and the settings I reported for my HLP5063 (brightness +1; Contrast -1) were based on 4:4:4. I also use title 12 / chapter 2 to set the black and reverse gray ramps to set the white.

JSchulte

11-28-04, 07:37 PM

Is anyone here using the S97 with the new Panny receiver, the sr70? Specifically is anyone connecting the two with the HDMI connection?

millerwill

11-28-04, 08:02 PM

EricScott: Thanks for the reply. I was using 4:4:4 for my HDMI-HDMI connection. I also notice that the dark, opening scences of Master and Commander were much too dark without the 'high' setting of the DVD's Brightness.

EricScott

11-28-04, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by millerwill
EricScott: Thanks for the reply. I was using 4:4:4 for my HDMI-HDMI connection. I also notice that the dark, opening scences of Master and Commander were much too dark without the 'high' setting of the DVD's Brightness.

Oh - well the Enhanced setting only affects the RGB colorspace. How is your Samsung set? Are you using Cinema?

mallu2u

11-28-04, 08:56 PM

Millerwill: Set the HDMI RGB to Standard. Enchanced crushes Black. I wrote the same in the other thread as well where you posted. I noticed the crush on my Sony 60'' XBR RPTV. Even I have the brightness set to + 3/4 or something.

mallu2u

11-28-04, 09:00 PM

I'm hoping there is no truth to the Panny recall. I am going to register on their website tomorrow, just in case. Hey, if they recall and fix the MB issue and some others, I would not mind then! :D

millerwill

11-28-04, 09:01 PM

Yes, I'm using 'Cinema' on the hlp. And when I set the Brightness this high, the MB problem is also very noticeable (e.g., in the intro dark scenes of Master and C.). Of course I may very well be doing something else stupid! The manual is basically incomprehesible to me; would have been TOTALLY lost without the info from this thread.

PS I have a Denon 2910 that I like a great deal, and it is a pleasure to use. I am just checking out the s97 to see if it might be just about as good; wouldn't might saving ~$400, but not unless I get better results from the s97.

mallu2u

11-28-04, 09:27 PM

millerwill: Reason I kept the Panny also is coz if its Price/Performance. As you mentioned at $300 (even less online), its $350 (or $400) less than 2910. I am hoping Panny fixes MB and other small issues soon. Sango is working with them on those. I plan to live with the MB until issue is resolved. Instead of brightness at +5, I'd rather set it at +3 and ignore it and use that money on other HT stuff :) I know it must be hard for you since u have have something relatively better (2910) to compare with right now.

chairmantao

11-29-04, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by millerwill
Yes, I'm using 'Cinema' on the hlp. And when I set the Brightness this high, the MB problem is also very noticeable (e.g., in the intro dark scenes of Master and C.). Of course I may very well be doing something else stupid! The manual is basically incomprehesible to me; would have been TOTALLY lost without the info from this thread.

PS I have a Denon 2910 that I like a great deal, and it is a pleasure to use. I am just checking out the s97 to see if it might be just about as good; wouldn't might saving ~$400, but not unless I get better results from the s97.

millerwill, i have a hlp5063 and have found the same to be true on my tv, so you're not the only one. i've had to set my s97's brightness up to +3 or +4 in order to see the BTB bar in DVE. i also see the same artefacts as you do in M&C. keep me posted if you can about your results since it seems our tv's factory calibration are pretty similar.

bent98

11-29-04, 08:05 AM

I searched but didnt see anywhere in these forums. Can you flash the Pannys firmware??

RockStrongo

11-29-04, 09:51 AM

omegastar

11-29-04, 11:34 AM

Wow. Just got the Panny S97 last night and hooked it up to the BenQ PE8700+. I couldnt believe the picture quality @720p. This replaced my Toshiba 3950 progressive scan player. One thing to note is that the default display settings for the BenQ and Panny right out-of-the-box are almost bang on in terms of calibration as confirmed through DVE. All I needed to do is set the USER brightness to +1 and was good to go....

There are no DVI sync issues with the Panny/BenQ combo unlike what I experienced with the Denon 1910. The pixel cropping is also much less pronounced on the Panny then was on the 1910 which also generated sparklies on the screen when upconversion was used. Using the same cable works flawlessy with the Panny at any resolution.

This is a great player. Very happy indeed.

millerwill

11-29-04, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by chairmantao
millerwill, i have a hlp5063 and have found the same to be true on my tv, so you're not the only one. i've had to set my s97's brightness up to +3 or +4 in order to see the BTB bar in DVE. i also see the same artefacts as you do in M&C. keep me posted if you can about your results since it seems our tv's factory calibration are pretty similar.

I have decided to return the s97. I had hoped that it would be just about as good as the Denon 2910 I have (still within its return period) and save me some $$, but I like the 2910 sufficiently better not to make the swap.

Radsman

11-29-04, 02:28 PM

I got one of these babies with the first shipment from OneCall. I am very happy with it. I have since obtained the HDMI-DVI adaptors i needed to run it through my Dtronics DVI 4 X 1 switcher. Now the display code on the DVD player equates to incompatibility of the DVI switcher. I called Dtronics and spoke with one of the engineers there who said that the newer HDMI chips aren't necessarily compatible with their DVI switcher. Is there a DVI/HDMI switcher in production?

mike2003

11-29-04, 04:46 PM

I've had my S97S (from One Call) for about two months now and it works perfectly. I've watched a number of old and new DVDs and haven't had any of the problems some have identified here. I am also quite impressed with the build quality of the machine. Of course I just knocked on wood.

mgkg3

11-29-04, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Radsman
I got one of these babies with the first shipment from OneCall. I am very happy with it. I have since obtained the HDMI-DVI adaptors i needed to run it through my Dtronics DVI 4 X 1 switcher. Now the display code on the DVD player equates to incompatibility of the DVI switcher. I called Dtronics and spoke with one of the engineers there who said that the newer HDMI chips aren't necessarily compatible with their DVI switcher. Is there a DVI/HDMI switcher in production?

Don't know about Dtronics switcher but I am using Gefin 2x1 DVI switcher with S97 (am using HDMI->DVI adaptor by MonsterCable). My understanding is that DVI switcher for PCs are not necessarily HDCP compliant and if you want to use on HDTV/HD Monitor, then make sure that it is HDCP compliant. Sounds like your issue is exactly that. There is 4x1 switcher by Gefin.

Paul Bigelow

11-29-04, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by mike2003
I've had my S97S (from One Call) for about two months now and it works perfectly.

Two months? One month, maybe? ;)

Paul

JKA/V

11-29-04, 06:04 PM

Hehe, true paul ;)

Manatus

11-29-04, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by mgkg3
Don't know about Dtronics switcher but I am using Gefin 2x1 DVI switcher with S97 (am using HDMI->DVI adaptor by MonsterCable). My understanding is that DVI switcher for PCs are not necessarily HDCP compliant and if you want to use on HDTV/HD Monitor, then make sure that it is HDCP compliant. Sounds like your issue is exactly that. There is 4x1 switcher by Gefin.

My S97S is due to arrive in two days, along with a Monster HDMI->DVI adaptor, and I'd been planning to use them with my Dtronics 4x1 DVI switcher (Model DS-41R), whose specs state that it is HDCP-compliant. So I doubt that is the source of the reported problem. Whatever the cause, this is unwelcome news.

Penton-Man

11-29-04, 07:08 PM

Is there any verification concerning the alleged recall of the S97 reported in an aberrant post by a new member on another thread ?????

Paul, ah……… Mike2003 can be excused for his over exaggeration of the length of time of his ownership of this unit as time in San Luis is an incalculable entity.

San Luis is one Sweeeet place to live !

Paul Bigelow

11-29-04, 09:20 PM

Just having a little fun with mike2003! ;) I'm glad he's enjoying the player amongst beautiful surroundings.

As far as a recall, I have received nothing from Panasonic nor have heard anything official (or unofficial through reliable channels) about a recall. I've read the posts. Don't know what to say. I'm sure if something happens we'll hear about it. If someone sees lots of S97 stock at a B&M one day and then all the stock disappears the next day that might be an indication. That's what happened with the Toshiba SD-5960. I've registered my player with Panasonic.

We'll see.

Paul

Shazam9999

11-29-04, 10:10 PM

Attention Canadians:

Future Shop now has the S97 in stock. I'm hopefully picking one up tomorrow :)

LiteUp!

11-30-04, 12:24 AM

FYI...I have a DS-21R switcher (2x1), and have discovered that it also does not like the S97. I have to hook my S97 directly to my PLV-Z2, then it works fine with the same cables. This is a bummer and I have an email in to the switch guys about this. This is apparently a problem with the switch.

Originally posted by Manatus
My S97S is due to arrive in two days, along with a Monster HDMI->DVI adaptor, and I'd been planning to use them with my Dtronics 4x1 DVI switcher (Model DS-41R), whose specs state that it is HDCP-compliant. So I doubt that is the source of the reported problem. Whatever the cause, this is unwelcome news.

Sango

11-30-04, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Shazam9999
Attention Canadians:

Future Shop now has the S97 in stock. I'm hopefully picking one up tomorrow :)
This is old (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=473994&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) news.

mike2003

11-30-04, 10:42 AM

Gee willikers gang. i guess you are correct. It just seemed like two months. We loose track of time here in paradise. Still, the S97S is really great. I've had a number of DVD players and this baby is very impressive. I really like the blue light, although it is a bit too wide for good taste. When I got the HDMI cable hooked up it was totally amazing how much the picture and sound had improved over my previous setup. I can't help but think that the negative talk is just anti-Panasonic propaganda at its core.

Paul Bigelow

11-30-04, 11:05 AM

Hello Mike2003,

Glad you're enjoying the player after one/two months! ;)

The blue light can be minimized a bit by setting the FL dimmer setting to to "DIM".

Setup->Others->FL Dimmer: Dim

Other than the initial power-on, only a couple of blue LEDs will then illuminate the tray.

Paul.

EricScott

11-30-04, 11:08 AM

Surprised no one has commented on the ridiculous message the s97 scrolls when you power it on - "Welcome to DVD World". This is my first panasonic player - do they all do that?

Paul Bigelow

11-30-04, 11:11 AM

The previous DVD-XP50 has the same message. I guess Panasonic likes it. Maybe it's a holdover from when DVDs were a new and wondrous thing.

Paul

Onesimos

11-30-04, 11:32 AM

Paul, that message is also found on the DVD-RP82. I think it is what some call "Engrish," the strange (and often funny) use of English by the Japanese for the Japanese.

Here is a FAQ on this strange form of English:

engrish.com/faq.php

Manatus

11-30-04, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by EricScott
do they all do that?

I think there's a genetic explanation -- my Technics DVD-A10 Audio/Video player displays the same start-up message and "Bye" when turned off.

Hughman

11-30-04, 11:47 AM

There have been several posts recently which have stated or alluded that there may be a recall on these units. One such post stemmed from a conversation he/she had with an employee of Futureshop (Canadian retail chain) who advised that they had been instructed by Panasonic to return the units originally shipped to them.

I sent an email off to Panasonic Canada inquiring about the above and received this rather to the point response.

"Please be advised that we have not asked for Future Shop or any other dealer
to send us back their stock on the DVD-S97S. We most definitely do NOT have
a recall.

Sincerely,
Customer Care Centre
Panasonic Canada Inc."

Paul Bigelow

11-30-04, 12:04 PM

Hugh2,

Thanks for the info!

Paul

Penton-Man

11-30-04, 12:05 PM

Thanks Hugh2 !

BT&annie

11-30-04, 01:11 PM

Just picked up a JVC 61Z585, HDMI input. Love it. Currently have an RP82 hooked up via component.

I've been trying to get an answer to this question by reading everything I can but just haven't gotten an answer. Given that the RP82 scored SO high in the progressive shootouts, is going to the S97 or any other upconverting player going to yeild picture improvements? I've got no issue getting the S97 and selling the RP82 if that's that case. Also considering the Sammy 941.

Thanks!

Paul Bigelow

11-30-04, 01:47 PM

There is no clear-cut answer. Given the subjective nature of the forum everyone will have insights and opinions that will differ from every one else's. Some will strongly agree, others will strongly disagree with various shades in-between. It's tough to find an "answer". One method in this forum is to try to find forum members that have the same equipment and who tend to "see" the same things and stick with them. The process is similar to choosing a favorite movie reviewer.

The RP82 is generally accepted as an excellent DVD player. If it is working well and produces a satisfying picture then keep it.

If it is thought that the S97 might provide some benefit, the best thing to do is find the player at a local store and have a look with some favorite movies.

IMHO

Paul

Sango

11-30-04, 02:04 PM

Mike2003,

In reguards of the blue light, I actually change it to auto so it turns on and off instead of dim which will just keep it off.
----------------
EricScott,

The welcome message is on pretty much all of the Panasonic units. Even the Denon 1600 did!

Radsman

11-30-04, 02:07 PM

mgk3 and manatus,

The Dtronics switcher is HDCP compliant. There is a sticker on the unit stating so. Additionally, my Dish 811 HD reciever works fine with its signal through the switcher. Its signal requires HDCP compliance via DVI out. I know this because I COULDN'T get a signal via the DVI input on my old panny AE300 PJ but it works fine with the new AE700 which is HDCP compiant. And, I read recently that DISH and DirectTV send signals out via their DVI outputs that require HDCP compliance.

I called and spoke to one of the designing engineers at Dtronics who essentially said that there is nothing that could be done to the switcher to change it. Any electrical engineers out there with differing opinions? I don't want to get a new switcher (HDMI) if I don't need to. Who wants to spend another $250? I shure don't.

Radsman

EricScott

11-30-04, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Sango

The welcome message is on pretty much all of the Panasonic units. Even the Denon 1600 did!

I wish there was a way to turn it off. I had a friend over the other day when I turned the player on. He looks at me and says "dude you're such a geek" - had to explain that I did not tell the DVD player to scroll the message :)

Sango

11-30-04, 02:35 PM

Lol!!

I guess you mean "such". Just tell him it's a normal start up message.

If someone could re-rewrite the firmware, it can be done to change the message.

Penton-Man

11-30-04, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by BT&annie
Just picked up a JVC 61Z585, HDMI input. Love it. Currently have an RP82 hooked up via component.

I've been trying to get an answer to this question by reading everything I can but just haven't gotten an answer. Given that the RP82 scored SO high in the progressive shootouts, is going to the S97 or any other upconverting player going to yeild picture improvements? I've got no issue getting the S97 and selling the RP82 if that's that case. Also considering the Sammy 941.

Thanks!

If when you say the “progressive shootouts” you are essentially referring to the Secrets website, I agree with Paul in that you should let YOUR eyes determine what is the best fit for YOU or try to find similar minded users that have a display device that matches your own.

I tend to use the Secrets information as a good source of some baseline information but it is in no way an end all for what is a “better” DVD player.

A couple people on this thread have noted that with THEIR display and hook-up that the S97 picture is much better than the RP-82……..even though I wouldn’t be surprised if the S97 scores a lower point total on the Secrets evaluation once their staff gets one to wring out.

I copied this awhile back from another poster on another thread (can’t remember where) which sort of sums it up for me……………………………………..

“It seems like everytime someone makes a post requesting feedback on players, inevitably most everyone will simply reiterate how they were ranked on Secrets website. Now dont get me wrong, I commend highly the efforts of the Secrets staff to provide the best possible objective data, and I consider their results invaluable information when choosing a good player (or just understanding the new technologies.)

I just think there is more to choosing a player than just pure empirical results (based on one test player, I must add.) There are a lot of items such as owner-reported reliability, chassis quailty/durability/ruggedness, ergonomics/functionality, overall features and simple desirability that are not accounted for. Secrets does sometime allude to some of these other factors in the write-ups, but they dont play a role in the overall objective score.

A perfect case in point, I just bought a denon 910 on clearance just to use until I can either get my dv59 fixed or I find something I consider suitable to replace it. In the objective score on Secrets, the 910 scored "higher" than the dv59 did over component analog (and not much lower than the dv59 did over hdmi.) Now, I have had both of these players setup on my same panny 42pwd6, and I can tell you that overall they arent in the same league. Pure picture quality is close, with the nod for video material going to the 910 but overall PQ going to the dv59, but in every other possible aspect the dv59 slaughters the 910 (and it should for the price difference.) And I would imagine that, if you asked dvd enthusiasts to pick one of the two, even if they were the same price, all of them would pick the dv59 as the player of choice.

An even more dramatic example would be trying to compare a $329 (original msrp) dvd-910 to a $8000 krell standard. Now I can not imagine that anyone would rather have the denon than the krell, although the denon outperformed the krell on Secrets. Maybe im too materialistic, but personally, I would be more content having a krell sitting on my AV stand than any denon ever made.”

Hey Sango, please don't bitch about the double quote - it's the best I could do to make the point understandable !

P.S. For what it's worth, I believe that I will find Paul's evaluation and others on this forum concerning this DVD player - far more complete and applicable to real world conditions - no matter how well this player eventually performs on the Secrets shootout.

Sango

11-30-04, 03:49 PM

I have a complaint about the quote!! lol!! j/k!! Those at not the ones I'm talking about since it's from a different thread. If someone were to reply including quoting your whole post of that size in the same thread is what I'm talking about.

silvertone

11-30-04, 04:16 PM

I have noticed the MB issue as explained in this thread, particularly in dark scenes transitions. I also noticed a lot of 'bright' dots that appear suddenly on the screen, this is very fast, very small bright dots that look like video noise. This is present in both HDMI and Component, and only with this player. Is this also macroblocking?

Thanks,

dh935

11-30-04, 04:41 PM

I have one questions to all of you guru of HD.
In future when HD-DVD's will hit the market can we run it on S97?
Since S97 can upscale to 1080i do you guys think we will be able to
use S97 to play HD-DVD's? or we will have to buy new HD-DVD player?
I was reading some articles and they say HD-DVD's can hit the market
by next Christmas.
Thanks in advance.

EricScott

11-30-04, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by dh935
I have one questions to all of you guru of HD.
In future when HD-DVD's will hit the market can we run it on S97?
Since S97 can upscale to 1080i do you guys think we will be able to
use S97 to play HD-DVD's? or we will have to buy new HD-DVD player?
I was reading some articles and they say HD-DVD's can hit the market
by next Christmas.
Thanks in advance.

You will definitely need new hardware to play HD DVDs or Blu Ray - it's an entirely new technology. This is part of the reason that a player like the s97 is so attractive as compared to a significantly pricer upscaling player - most people recognize that in 2 to 3 years time they will likely upgrade to HD DVD or Blu Ray. I read the WSJ article about HD DVD by next christmas but given how expensive the players will be by then I think you have at least a year and a half to two years if you bought the s97 today before you would be looking to upgrade. I for one am not going to buy until there is some more clarity w.r.t. which format will win out.

Manatus

11-30-04, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Radsman
mgk3 and manatus,

The Dtronics switcher is HDCP compliant. There is a sticker on the unit stating so. Additionally, my Dish 811 HD reciever works fine with its signal through the switcher. Its signal requires HDCP compliance via DVI out. I know this because I COULDN'T get a signal via the DVI input on my old panny AE300 PJ but it works fine with the new AE700 which is HDCP compiant. And, I read recently that DISH and DirectTV send signals out via their DVI outputs that require HDCP compliance.

I called and spoke to one of the designing engineers at Dtronics who essentially said that there is nothing that could be done to the switcher to change it. Any electrical engineers out there with differing opinions? I don't want to get a new switcher (HDMI) if I don't need to. Who wants to spend another $250? I shure don't.

Radsman

Radsman (and others) --

Good news for me (and, I hope, others). My S97S arrived today, and it's now outputting a 720p signal from its HDMI port, through my Dtronics DVI switcher, into the DVI input on my Sammy HLN507W DLP HDTV with the aid of a Monster Cable HDMI -> DVI adaptor. No error messages, just a very pleasing picture. The DVI adaptor is plugged directly into the DVI player (I'm not using the HDMI cable supplied with the player). The only problem so far is that there's an IR conflict with my older Technics DVD-audio/video player that I'll probably be moving to another TV now anyhow. I have no idea why the Dtronics box works for me and won't for others with the S97S.

Shazam9999

11-30-04, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by EricScott
You will definitely need new hardware to play HD DVDs or Blu Ray - it's an entirely new technology. This is part of the reason that a player like the s97 is so attractive as compared to a significantly pricer upscaling player - most people recognize that in 2 to 3 years time they will likely upgrade to HD DVD or Blu Ray. I read the WSJ article about HD DVD by next christmas but given how expensive the players will be by then I think you have at least a year and a half to two years if you bought the s97 today before you would be looking to upgrade. I for one am not going to buy until there is some more clarity w.r.t. which format will win out. If the HD DVD and Blu Ray people are truly smart, they'd put a regular DVD layer on the disc. That way, even DVD people could buy the product without feeling gipped. And then they'd wonder how good the new version looked like. And then they'd spend money on the new player. A vicious cycle. :)

Also, expect players that play both HDDVD and BluRay formats.

rwestley

11-30-04, 05:27 PM

I am waiting for my S97S it should arrive in a few days. I also have a Dtronics DVI switcher and I hope it will work. I have it working with my
Momitsu and my Scientific Atlanta cable box now. I wonder if there could
be a cable problem. I had a Lindy 7.5m cable which would not work with the Scientific Atlanta box. I got a new cheap cable that seems
to work fine. I will try the S97S with the Dtronics as soon at it arrives.

silvertone

11-30-04, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by silvertone
I have noticed the MB issue as explained in this thread, particularly in dark scenes transitions. I also noticed a lot of 'bright' dots that appear suddenly on the screen, this is very fast, very small bright dots that look like video noise. This is present in both HDMI and Component, and only with this player. Is this also macroblocking?

Thanks,

Paul? Sango? Anybody?

thanks

Lodey

11-30-04, 06:31 PM

Hey - run this test if you can. Put in any of the Extended Edition Lord of the Rings sets... do you notice in most of the "outdoors" shots, film grain on trees, or mountains, in the background? I am having a few dignitaries over to watch these extended edition films next month, on my Toshiba 52HMX84 DLP with this S97 player, and want to try to make sure the picture is as nice as possible, even with the source being what it is. Do most people see general film grain on these discs? Also, most people have answered this already, but on these films, do you see a faint dark line about 1/8th of an inch below the top "black bar" on the top of the movie? If anyone has any DVD player settings (HDMI out 4:4:4) to make these films look best, I would love your comments... it is important that these movies are as good as possible, it could mean pain of death if they are not!

Paul Bigelow

11-30-04, 07:25 PM

Silvertone,

Can't explain the bright dots. Please describe them further and under what conditions they're being seen. I've seen problems with some displays with *speckles* with runs of DVI cable of 6' or longer (not using the DVD-S97). Based on my viewing I would not characterize macroblocking as bright dots.

Sometimes during fade-ins or fade-outs macroblocking can look like random splotches of slightly lighter or darker areas.

Paul

Hughman

11-30-04, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by silvertone
Paul? Sango? Anybody?

thanks

A likely candidate is luminance noise which I notice on my system at times as well. All players I've auditioned exhibited this noise as well but the noise structure was much smaller and more difficult to see from a distance on the other players except the Pioneer 59avi which exhibited similar luminance characteristics to the Panny when in the system.

I've noticed this snowy noise is not consistent and at times remarkably less contrast therefore more difficult to pick up on. At this point though I'm not sure what is causing the noise. From what I understand the causes can be originate from a number of sources.

1- processing noise
2-impedance mismatches from output to input.
3-external noise from electric motors, fluorescent lamps.
4-other sources of emi or rfi.

I've yet to track down the cause of my noise but my first my test will be to shut down all circuits in the house except for what running the DVD player and PJ and go from there.

Penton-Man

11-30-04, 07:48 PM

"I've yet to track down the cause of my noise but my first my test will be to shut down all circuits in the house except for what running the DVD player and PJ and go from there."

God Hugh2, I bet your wife will just luv when you do that !

Hughman

11-30-04, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Penton-Man
"I've yet to track down the cause of my noise but my first my test will be to shut down all circuits in the house except for what running the DVD player and PJ and go from there."

God Hugh2, I bet your wife will just luv when you do that !

Think I'll wait till after she goes to bed. She already suspects I've lost it, no point in removing all doubt.

Paul Bigelow

11-30-04, 08:19 PM

Hugh2 and Silvertone,

Are we all discussing the same thing?

I've seen plenty of artifacts but usually these are repeatable: back up the DVD and replay.

Or, are we discussing noise from outside sources?

Paul

Hughman

11-30-04, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hugh2 and Silvertone,

Are we all discussing the same thing?

I've seen plenty of artifacts but usually these are repeatable: back up the DVD and replay.

Or, are we discussing noise from outside sources?

Paul

Hi,

My issue is not related to info on the DVD, it is present and moving either when looking at the player logo screen or when a DVD image is paused. The white snow manifests itself in dark or black scenes. Take the Panny dark blue logo screen for instance, the white noise is present in all parts of the logo when looking closely at it.

Could someone take a look at their logo from close range and tell me if there is noise present as well.

Thanks

Paul Bigelow

11-30-04, 08:47 PM

Hugh2,

I have never seen white snow, white noise, or white speckles under any circumstances. I always look at the screen from close range.

Is everything plugged into the same outlet?

Perhaps some ferrites are needed on the video cables and power cords.

Paul

Hughman

11-30-04, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hugh2,

I have never seen white snow, white noise, or white speckles under any circumstances. I always look at the screen from close range.

Is everything plugged into the same outlet?

Perhaps some ferrites are needed on the video cables and power cords.

Paul

Presently the PJ, DVD player, and Iscan are on the same line and very close to one another. This recent change of locating the front end next to the ceiling mounted PJ eliminated a 23 foot run of video cabling but also eliminated the dedicated lines I was previous using but regardless the same noise was present with the previous setup as well. I have about a dozen collar type ferrites I've been attaching to various cables within the system with no apparent or obvious change to the noise.

silvertone

12-01-04, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hugh2 and Silvertone,

Are we all discussing the same thing?

I've seen plenty of artifacts but usually these are repeatable: back up the DVD and replay.

Or, are we discussing noise from outside sources?

Paul

In my case these 'particles' or 'speckles' I'm seeing, I see them again by rewinding the movie, and it is present in HDMI and component output. I'm almost sure this is an issue with this player not the movie, I'll make some time and take a picture of this. I'll also pull the RP82 out of the closet and replay the same scenes with it to make sure it's not the movie.

Sango

12-01-04, 01:21 AM

silvertone,

Another way to get is to run the S97 in interlaced mode as well.
--------------------------
hugh,

The white stuff, I've never seen.

On the DVD logo, I the noise you're seeing upclose is actually rendering which is normal because it serves as a test screen. All Panasonic units do this.
--------------------------

Question:

Has anyone tried DivX to see if the unit can in fact play it?

Sango

chorei

12-01-04, 07:02 AM

I've got a Panasonic PT-50DL54 50" DLP w/ one HDMI input, and need a DVD player for it. I'm looking for an HDMI output DVD player, but no one on these forums seems too excited about either the Panny S97, the Sampsung HD-941, or Toshiba SD 5970. I'm wondering if maybe I should just get someting basic like a Sony DVP NS775V SACD progressive scan for around $130 for now, and wait a year or so for these to get perfected. Are you folks happy with your S97, would you buy one again, do you recommend it?

David Bott

12-01-04, 08:48 AM

Reminder...Do not post asking "Where is the best price" or post where to buy the units. We do not allow for the posting of where to purchase items. The site is here for support of home theater gear, not the purchase of.

If we allowed posts to be made that are more or less links to web sites that offer sales, we would be flooded with such posts. This is not what we want the site to become. We offer a price search tool, DealTime, at the top of the forum sections and at the bottom of threads.

We have removed several "where to buy" type posts as of late...do not continue making such posts. BTW...FYI...Some of the "buy it here" type posts have come from, guess what, sales people in that xyz.com company. Thus the issue created if we allow for such posts to remain.

Thank you.

mkulikow

12-01-04, 09:23 AM

Hi all,

I have following this thread for the most part since it started. Now with more and more DCDi upconverting players hitting the market I am trying to narrow down my decision.

I have a Panny PT-53wxd63 53" widescreen with HDMI that I will be using with this DVD player. It has not been ISF'd yet (after XMAS) but I am looking to buy myself a Christmas present and get the S97. I am currently using a POS Philips progesive DVD player that is not very good @ all.

My question is if this player still the best candidate out there in the upconverting player realm and does anyone following this thread have it hooked up to a Panny x53 or x54 RPTV that can comment on how it looks.

Thanks,

- Mike

Paul Bigelow

12-01-04, 09:25 AM

chorei,

If the display does a poor/mediocre job of scaling 480i/p to the display's native rate but displays 720p/1080i well then the DVD-S97 may have some benefit. If the TV does a good job with 480i/p then the benefits of upconversion may be minimal. The DVD-S97 is a Faroudja-based player and has the advantages of the Faroudja deinterlacing regardless of the upconversion. The player is not perfect (no player is) with the two most reported problems being of "macroblocking" (search the forum) and some light "pink" tint added to gray with HDMI.

The reported problems are minimal to me in my situation. I am happy with the player and would buy it again.

Paul

bojangling

12-01-04, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Lodey
Hey - run this test if you can. Put in any of the Extended Edition Lord of the Rings sets... do you notice in most of the "outdoors" shots, film grain on trees, or mountains, in the background? I am having a few dignitaries over to watch these extended edition films next month, on my Toshiba 52HMX84 DLP with this S97 player, and want to try to make sure the picture is as nice as possible, even with the source being what it is. Do most people see general film grain on these discs? Also, most people have answered this already, but on these films, do you see a faint dark line about 1/8th of an inch below the top "black bar" on the top of the movie? If anyone has any DVD player settings (HDMI out 4:4:4) to make these films look best, I would love your comments... it is important that these movies are as good as possible, it could mean pain of death if they are not!

I get this same type of thing. When I am watching movies, I can see little speckles I would also label "film grain". Its the same type of thing I see at the movie theatre when I sit a little closer or the background is solid. Is this normal? Configurable (i.e. Can I turn it off)?

S97 is plugged directly into my Samsung HLP5063 via the supplied HDMI cable.

tubby

12-01-04, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by bojangling
I get this same type of thing. When I am watching movies, I can see little speckles I would also label "film grain". Its the same type of thing I see at the movie theatre when I sit a little closer or the background is solid. Is this normal? Configurable (i.e. Can I turn it off)?

S97 is plugged directly into my Samsung HLP5063 via the supplied HDMI cable.

Sounds like macroblocking to me.
Can anyone say if this issue is more or less pronounced with the panny vs. the denon 1910? I have tried the denon and could not look past the MB.

Paul Bigelow

12-01-04, 10:42 AM

Jay,

I would say they're about the same.

Paul

Shazam9999

12-01-04, 11:40 AM

I just tried mine out. Ergonomically, this is the best Panny player I've used. It's also extremely quick in general compared to ohter brands.

Picture quaility is great. I'm upconverting to 1080i. Slightly less ringing than my Mitsubishi DD-8040.

HDMI is great, BTW. One thin cable instead of a monstrous component cable, and so easy to plug in.

I'm debating whether to keep this player. The upconversion doesn't really provide me any visible benefit (I'm using a Toshiba 34' 16:9 CRT) as far as I can tell. However, it's so much easier to use than my current player (the Mits is a tad slow and I love the HDMI) that I might keep it just for that.

bojangling

12-01-04, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by tubby
Sounds like macroblocking to me.

That is surprising. It doesn't look like the pictures posted on this thread showing macroblocking, and it doesn't seem to happen in particularly dark scenes or bright scenes.

chill903

12-01-04, 01:29 PM

Does this thing have an "8 second skip backwards" button like my Tivo? Now that I'm a Tivo convert, watching DVDs is a hassle...

Paul Bigelow

12-01-04, 02:06 PM

Yes, it has an "instant" replay.

Paul

mallu2u

12-01-04, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Penton-Man
"I've yet to track down the cause of my noise but my first my test will be to shut down all circuits in the house except for what running the DVD player and PJ and go from there."

God Hugh2, I bet your wife will just luv when you do that !

LOL! I agree with Penton-Man! Would be really nice to see the expressions on her face when you do that. "All that for a DVD Player" is what I am guessing!:D!! Good luck my friend. But you do know that we're all with you on this..

mallu2u

12-01-04, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Hugh2
Think I'll wait till after she goes to bed. She already suspects I've lost it, no point in removing all doubt.

Good answer!! Sorry catching up late....

mallu2u

12-01-04, 02:20 PM

jahir

12-01-04, 02:59 PM

Anyone else having lot of underscan when using 720p? I have two meters wide screen and on the right I have like 3 centimeters of space where there is no picture. On the left I have 1 - 1,5 centimeters with no picture. My S97 is connected to Panasonic AE700 with 5m HDMI cable. If I switch to 625p then the picture is perfect. Is this a bug in S97 or AE700 or a feature?

iamtarun

12-01-04, 03:01 PM

i bought this player from Magnolia hifi in palo alto.

Did the basic video settings using avia over HDMI. The pictures look good.
( tv is 50ptlc14)

Not seeing any big mprovement in PQ over my old 60$ apex player.
May be it's my eyes or May be the TV is already doing a good upconversion.

will tweak a little bit more and see if that helps.

If ne1 using this player with Panny LCD RPTVs can post their settings/opinion,
it will be helpful.

caboman

12-01-04, 04:10 PM

I just ordered mine today from a internet company, it was under 3 hundred including shipping. Please e-mail me and I will be glad to tell you where I purchased the panny S97. I will connecting it to a Panny 50" DLP.
Caboman
[email]

Lodey

12-01-04, 04:19 PM

Folks... anyone who has handled this yet, I would appreciate some advice.

I was so excited upon hearing that there are DVD-Audio and SACD CDs out that I ran out to Best Buy to get a couple, assuming I could play them on my S97 and 5.1 setup, but then I got back to double-check and confirm and upon reading this topic and looking at the owner's manual, I am even more confused.

Can I play an SACD and DVD-Audio CD in the S97?
Using digital coaxial or optical out to a receiver capable of 5.1, will this work? It looks like in the manual they want you to connect a regular coax for each speaker?

Any advice or help from those who have tested this out would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Cart before the Horse

koopalei

12-01-04, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Lodey
Folks... anyone who has handled this yet, I would appreciate some advice.

I was so excited upon hearing that there are DVD-Audio and SACD CDs out that I ran out to Best Buy to get a couple, assuming I could play them on my S97 and 5.1 setup, but then I got back to double-check and confirm and upon reading this topic and looking at the owner's manual, I am even more confused.

Can I play an SACD and DVD-Audio CD in the S97?
Using digital coaxial or optical out to a receiver capable of 5.1, will this work? It looks like in the manual they want you to connect a regular coax for each speaker?

Any advice or help from those who have tested this out would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Cart before the Horse

From what I read in the manual, I believe you have to connect the 6-channel outputs to
a pre-amp or a receiver that can have pass-thru. I am ordering an Outlaw 950 and will
post once I play with DVD-audio. My old pre-amp cannot do pass through, I've been wanting to upgrade anyway, now I have an excuse :)

Koop

Lodey

12-01-04, 04:39 PM

Hmm, so my new Kenwood 8070 receiver with 2 optical and 2 digital coaxial inputs and up to 7.1 channel surround won't play SACD or DVD-A unless I buy an amp?? ACH

Sango

12-01-04, 04:41 PM

caboman,

You might want to remove the email address because you're opening yourself for automated spam bots to get the address.

Sango

mwgordon

12-01-04, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Lodey
Hmm, so my new Kenwood 8070 receiver with 2 optical and 2 digital coaxial inputs and up to 7.1 channel surround won't play SACD or DVD-A unless I buy an amp?? ACH

Nope. You have the paranoid music industry to thank for that. The new multi channel formats, particularly in the case of SACD and Sony, do not allow for digital transmission of the signal. There are some proprietary transports from Denon, Pioneer and others I think that will work for DVD-A, but not for SACD yet (because of restrictions from Sony).

chirpie

12-01-04, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Lodey
Hmm, so my new Kenwood 8070 receiver with 2 optical and 2 digital coaxial inputs and up to 7.1 channel surround won't play SACD or DVD-A unless I buy an amp?? ACH

WOAH! TIME OUT! You CAN use your Kenwood 8070 to paly SACD and DVD-A!!!

You just have to have 6 analog cables going from the back of your disc player into your reciever's DVD 5.1 CHANNEL INPUT. I just checked the back of the reciever on Crutchfield and it's there.

The thing that you can't do is use the digital outputs to transmit the signal, it'll just be analog. That's the short dirty answer....

EDIT:

Just to clarify, I don't know if the 97 plays SACD at all, but if it did, this would be how you'd hook it up. Since I can see the DVD-A logo on the front of the player, then this setup will definetely get your DVD-A discs working. :-)

Hughman

12-01-04, 05:19 PM

I purchased the S97 with the intention of using the 480i signal through component output into an Iscan. I gambled a bit hoping the MPEG would be a good one and for my purposes I have not been disappointed by it's performance. I have no idea how objective tests would rate its performance but with my somewhat limited experience with player I'd subjectively rate the decoder as better than average.

Anyways, for my next upgrade the plan was to purchase an SDI upgrade which I gambled on becoming available for this player and it would appear this is where I lost the gamble. Recent discussion with JVB Digital indicates that the MPEG decoder and D/A converters are housed in the same chip therefore there are no physical points to "tab" into the chip. Therefore, at this time anyway, there are no plans for an SDI upgrade with this player.

Bummer.

chirpie

12-01-04, 05:23 PM

I'll just add this attachment to make it clear about the spot I'm talking about... it looks the same on almost all recievers that have it...

MDeB

12-01-04, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Lodey

Can I play an SACD and DVD-Audio CD in the S97?

Sincerely,
Cart before the Horse

The S97 does not support SACD, but it does support DVD-Audio.

Don't know about the connections, though ... maybe someone else does.

Just to clarify: I realize you are asking about multi-channel connections. I do get a signal from the digital out when I play DVD-Audio, with "PCM" selected; I think it is "downmixed" stereo.

Paul Bigelow

12-01-04, 06:53 PM

The DVD-S97 will pass DVD-Audio digitally via the copy-protected HDMI connection or analog via the 6 RCA jacks. Panasonic does not support SACD.

Paul

rob316

12-02-04, 01:45 AM

I am also thinking about purchasing the new S97 DVD player and the Panny SAXR70 A/V receiver. I currently have the JVC A09 HTIB connected to my panny 47x54 CRT. Is it a good idea to have all Panny products together?

Rob

Sango

12-02-04, 01:52 AM

I don't see anything wrong with it.

rwestley

12-02-04, 06:58 AM

Sango do you have any news from your contact at Panasonic. I do hope
that they plan to offer a firmware upgrade to fix the problems you have
reported. Is there any timetable on the fixes?

rob316

12-02-04, 09:09 AM

Does anyone know the version of HDMI the S97 is? The reason I ask is I will be picking up the S97 and the new panny XR 70 A/V unit which is HDMI 1.1 and wanted to make sure both are compatiable. I will be hooking up the DVD/A/V to my Panny 47x54 CRT which is HDMI. Since I am asking about HDMI does anyone know if the Panny 47x54 tv is HDMI 1.1?

Thanks

Rob

dynamowhum

12-02-04, 09:28 AM

I posted this question in the wrong place like a newb yesterday. I plan on buying a Panny 700 projector, SA-xr-70 reciever, along with an S97 dvd player. I would appreciate a recommendation on a 30ft HDMI to HDMI cable to compliment this trio. I am hoping to keep the cable purchase under $200. Yeah I know I'm cheap.

Shazam9999

12-02-04, 09:58 AM

Well, this player does have macroblocking. It's pretty bad, if perhaps not that noticeable on my CRT depending on the material. A very good test is the opening credits of Spiderman 2, with the solid blocks of color. A mess on this player.

Back it goes.

BdoUK

12-02-04, 10:03 AM

Shazam,

I also saw Macroblocking on my CRT Mitsubishi. I returned my S97 yesterday. It was fairly prevelant on certian scenes in Shrek 2. I also noticed that those green screens that show before trailers exhibited quite a bit of macroblocking as well.

All in all, I am still happy with my RP-91. I gave the S97 a fair shot, but it just wasn't worth it to have the macroblocking all over the place. I loved the solid picture the player gave over the HDMI connection, but the macroblocking was the deal breaker for me. Maybe the next generation of players will correct this problem, but then again HD DVD and Blu Ray will be upon us very soon...

EricScott

12-02-04, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by BdoUK
Shazam,

I also saw Macroblocking on my CRT Mitsubishi. I returned my S97 yesterday. It was fairly prevelant on certian scenes in Shrek 2. I also noticed that those green screens that show before trailers exhibited quite a bit of macroblocking as well.

Just to show how display dependent these players are, Shrek 2 looked absolutely incredible on the s97 connected to my Samsung DLP. Numerous people have been over and commented how amazing the PQ is. No MB whatsoever AFAI could tell.

BdoUK

12-02-04, 10:15 AM

Eric,

I noticed it during the scene (I think chapter 17?) where Shrek and Co. launch the assault on the castle. As I look around the darker background areas, I could see small artifact boxes all over the place. I am very familiar with this scene as my gf and I love to watch it almost nightly on the RP-91 :).

I guess that for my display, sticking with a good 480p player is the best route to go. Like I said I did notice a nice improvement in detail by running through the HDMI out on the S97, but the macroblocking was really bad on my display.

Kenlex

12-02-04, 10:20 AM

Is it possible that macroblocking is more pronounced when there's more than one scaling step going on (i.e., scaling taking place both in the player and the display? Or more than one D-A conversion (or vice versa). I haven't pulled the trigger on a purchase of the S97S yet, but I am heartened to hear there's no mb with a Samsung DLP, 'cause that's what I've got. (The S97S would replace a Sammy HD931, which crushes everything and has the world's worst remote and user interface, to boot. The family hates it and is demanding its replacement)

Has anyone experienced macroblocking with the S97S set to output 720p over HDMI into a native 720p display (that keeps the signal in the digital domain; i.e., no gratuitous D-A / A-D conversions)? In particular, anyone with a Sammy DLP? Or is Eric Scott's experience more the norm with these displays (I hope!)?

EricScott

12-02-04, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Kenlex

Has anyone experienced macroblocking with the S97S set to output 720p over HDMI into a native 720p display (that keeps the signal in the digital domain; i.e., no gratuitous D-A / A-D conversions)? In particular, anyone with a Sammy DLP? Or is Eric Scott's experience more the norm with these displays (I hope!)?

To be clear, I have experienced some infrequent and minor macroblocking but you really have to be looking for it and I rarely notice it - Shrek 2 is a perfect example where someone sees major MB and I don't see any. That's not to say there is absolutely no MB on any DVDs on Samsung DLPs.

What I can tell you is that I am extremely happy with the player and think it is a very good match for the Samsung DLPs (other than not being able to get an HDMI discrete code to work on the Samsung - obviously not the s97's fault). I have an HLP5063 and am connecting the s97 over HDMI at 720p with 4:4:4 for my color space setting. Results may differ if you are using HDMI to DVI but apparently that is pretty decent as well.

EricScott

12-02-04, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by BdoUK
Eric,

I noticed it during the scene (I think chapter 17?) where Shrek and Co. launch the assault on the castle. As I look around the darker background areas, I could see small artifact boxes all over the place. I am very familiar with this scene as my gf and I love to watch it almost nightly on the RP-91 :).

I will specifically check this chapter tonight and report back. But I've watched the DVD a few times in the past week - my gf loves it too - and really have been blown away by the PQ.

dm_4u

12-02-04, 11:21 AM

Has anyone tried running an HDMI/DVI cable into a Hitachi S500 RPTV?

If so, how is the upconvert? MB?

Also, does the S97 play Divx?

EricScott

12-02-04, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by dm_4u

Also, does the S97 play Divx?

Manual says it won't play Divx. But the manual also says it won't play DVD+R and it definitely can.

Kenlex

12-02-04, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by EricScott
I have an HLP5063 and am connecting the s97 over HDMI at 720p with 4:4:4 for my color space setting. Results may differ if you are using HDMI to DVI but apparently that is pretty decent as well.

My Sammy DLP is a 16-month-old HLN with DVI, so I guess I don't get a color space choice.

I have a connector and cable question for anyone who's experienced: I own a Monster DVI cable (big bucks but the only one I could find at the time) and the S97S will come with an HDMI cable. Electrically, it shouldn't make a difference, but does anyone have any opinions about whether, from a mechanical attachment perspective, I am better off using the HDMI cable with a DVI-male to HDMI-female adapter hung off my TV, or the DVI cable with an HDMI-male to DVI-female adapter hung off the player?

I haven't actually SEEN an HDMI cable yet (though I've seen photos), and my expectation is that, since the DVI connector is more massive and has a screw-down mechanical attachment, the mechanics would work better with the HDMI cable and the adapter on the TV. I'm thinking that the weight of the adapter and DVI cable might stress the HDMI connector on the player.

Thoughts, anyone?

Shazam9999

12-02-04, 11:37 AM

EricScott,

I'm curious. Do you have to player set to LCD for the display type? I'm wondering if that setting makes any difference.

EricScott

12-02-04, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Shazam9999
EricScott,

I'm curious. Do you have to player set to LCD for the display type? I'm wondering if that setting makes any difference.

I have mine set to "Projection TV". Read through this thread - there's quite a bit of discussion about what the TV Type does or doesn't do, which I can't really recall right now - sorry.

bojangling

12-02-04, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by EricScott
To be clear, I have experienced some infrequent and minor macroblocking but you really have to be looking for it and I rarely notice it - Shrek 2 is a perfect example where someone sees major MB and I don't see any. That's not to say there is absolutely no MB on any DVDs on Samsung DLPs.

What I can tell you is that I am extremely happy with the player and think it is a very good match for the Samsung DLPs (other than not being able to get an HDMI discrete code to work on the Samsung - obviously not the s97's fault). I have an HLP5063 and am connecting the s97 over HDMI at 720p with 4:4:4 for my color space setting. Results may differ if you are using HDMI to DVI but apparently that is pretty decent as well.

Eric, Do you notice any of the "film grain" (as I call it) with this setup(s97 and HLP5063)? I see specks on the screen similar to what I would see at the movies and was told earlier in this thread it was macroblocking. Doesn't sound or look like anything I have seen when people discuss mb, but thats why I ask.