Originally posted by bojangling
Eric, Do you notice any of the "film grain" (as I call it) with this setup(s97 and HLP5063)? I see specks on the screen similar to what I would see at the movies and was told earlier in this thread it was macroblocking. Doesn't sound or look like anything I have seen when people discuss mb, but thats why I ask.

Not really. I really haven't noticed consistent artifacts of any kind in my setup.

Originally posted by AkaStp
I would get the HDMI-DVI adapter, attach it to the TV's DVI input, and use the S97's HDMI cable. Thats what I and others here have done. I would not want the weight of a rather large and bulky HDMI-DVI adapter and DVI cable hanging off the S97's HDMI connector.

If you do get the adapter, get the DVI(male)- HDMI(female) one. Much better since it goes on back of the TV and much more sturdier. have done the same.

Originally posted by EricScott
Not really. I really haven't noticed consistent artifacts of any kind in my setup.

Does that even sound like MB to you? It only happens when viewing a dvd with the s97.

I thought it may be a setting in the s97, such as "Film Mode" or something like that, but if you guys haven't found it by now, it must not be there.

Originally posted by Dick
Please explain to me why a lot of people are excited about matching up the Panasonic DVD-S97 with the Panasonic SA-XR70 receiver ? Is is just because the Receiver has the HDMI ( in and out ). So you connect the DVD to the receiver via HDMI and the receiver to the TV via HDMI ( 2 cables ).

If you connect the DVD player to the TV via HDMI, and the DVD player to the receiver via Optical, you still have 2 cables. Again not knowing much about HT, tell me which setup is *better*. Thanks

Dick 6 Channel DVD Audio is output from the HDMI connection (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), so that spares you from the mess and cost of having 6 cables from your DVD player to your Receiver. It would also simplify the process for listening to DVD-A.

Originally posted by bojangling
Does that even sound like MB to you? It only happens when viewing a dvd with the s97.

I thought it may be a setting in the s97, such as "Film Mode" or something like that, but if you guys haven't found it by now, it must not be there.

I couldn't tell you if that's MB or not - I'm certainly no expert; from previous responses it appears some poeople think it is, other think it isn't.

How is your Samsung set up? I use Cinema mode with Sharpness at zero (can't remember my exact settings - actually posted earlier in this thread - just search for my name); leave DNIe On and DNR On. Film Mode isn't even a choice on the Samsung if you aren't passing 480i.

There is a film mode setting on the s97 - Go to the Picture Menu (Other Settings) and check the "Transfer Mode" option - I leave mine on "Auto1" (the default).

I've played around with various DNR options on the s97 and ultimately decided to just set them all to zero. There is really good discussion in the first post about these settings.

STATE OF THE ART
For DVD's, a New Definition
By WILSON ROTHMAN

Published: December 2, 2004

THE runaway success of the DVD notwithstanding, its arrival on the electronics scene was poorly timed. Most of the content published by the movie studios is in theater-style wide-screen format. You can watch a movie letterboxed - that is, squished - taking up only about two-thirds of the screen on a 19-inch tube TV, or you can watch it blown up on a giant wide-screen high-definition set.

Sweeter, maybe, but the screen of the HDTV is made up of 720 to 1,080 horizontal lines of resolution, while there are only 480 lines of picture stored on that DVD. Most people don't realize this, but DVD's are far from high-def.

This uncomfortable incongruity between the resolution of DVD's and newer TV's may be one reason that price, rather than quality, is what most people look for in a DVD player. Still, as each generation of player technology has gotten less expensive, a newer technology has emerged to drive up the price of deluxe models.

In the early days, that option was a Dolby Digital surround-sound decoder, which eventually found its way out of players and into audio receivers. The progressive-scan craze hit later, fueled largely by the myth that the feature would improve the quality of a DVD's picture on a standard-definition TV. Now that even the cheapest players in the pack boast progressive scan, a new premium DVD player has emerged, the all-digital HD upconverter, and it can sell for $100 to $200 above average prices.

To avoid compounding any new myths, I want to be blunt. If you don't own or plan to buy an HDTV with a digital-video input, this new type of player isn't worth it. But if you have made the jump to high-def, these new players could be perfect, especially if that new TV didn't cost a bazillion dollars.

What an HD upconverter does sounds promising: it examines the DVD video, digitally enlarging each movie frame to 720 or 1,080 lines of resolution. It then sends the information, still in digital form, to the TV, which displays it as a high-definition signal.

Until upconverters arrived, DVD players turned digital video to analog to send it to the TV (by composite, S-video or component jacks). The high-definition TV would have to change it back to digital data to fit the picture to its screen. Even with costly equipment, something could get lost in the messy conversion. A digital connection between the HD-upconverting DVD player and the TV means that the information on the DVD makes it to the TV in one piece.

It also usually gets there in one wire. Most HDTV's on the market, even ones costing less than $1,000, have an HDMI input. HDMI, or High Definition Multimedia Interface, bundles video data with digital audio data, so you get the highest quality picture and sound at once.

TV's dating back a year or two might have a DVI (digital visual interface) input instead. The two formats are compatible - there are even cables with a DVI connector on one end and an HDMI connector on the other - but DVI is video only, so sound has to travel separately.

I tried out five of the latest players from Denon, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony and Toshiba, using three of the most popular flavors of HDTV: a 26-inch Toshiba direct-view tube set, a 42-inch plasma by Hitachi and a 42-inch Sony Grand Wega, a rear-projection TV that uses three liquid-crystal display chips to produce its picture.

Popping in the high-quality Superbit DVD release of Luc Besson's 1994 masterpiece, "The Professional," and watching just one scene - a meditative moment for the evil Stansfield, played by Gary Oldman, before his crew of dirty cops turns an outer-borough apartment into Swiss cheese - I could see a genuine difference between this breed of player and two earlier ones, a Yamaha and a Sony, which I used as benchmarks.

To see exactly what these upconverters were doing, and to help identify the differences between them, I took the advice of Gary Merson, publisher of the HDTV Insider Newsletter (hdtvinsider.com), and located the latest picture-testing disc from Silicon Optix, as well as a copy of "Star Trek: Insurrection," known in the film business as a bad transfer.

HD sets can make standard television look terrible; by magnifying the picture, they often emphasize the lack of resolution. Smarter upconverters within TV's anticipate problems, smoothing out jagged edges formed when curved objects are drawn with straight lines and exterminating the gnat swarms of noise that tend to swirl in solid colors. They also fill in gaps caused by resizing and correct timing issues that arise when film (shot at 24 frames a second) is converted to digital video (with 30 frames a second).

When you connect an upconverting DVD player to your TV, the TV's processor will take a back seat. Your TV may already be great at displaying DVD's. If so, stick with what you've got; you probably paid a lot of money for it. But odds are, with an upconverter, you'll notice a change for the better.

These players can make meticulously mastered DVD's like the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy look HD-like, said Bob O'Donnell, an analyst at IDC, a market research company. They can also make a film that was hastily dumped to DVD surprisingly watchable, hence "Insurrection."

The Silicon Optix disc (available to consumers early next year at www.hqv.com) was full of two-minute exercises for the DVD player. A spinning white bar became jagged as it neared a horizontal attitude, unless the processor could counteract the problem. A flapping American flag revealed a new set of "jaggies" to overcome. There were tests for detail, tests for noise and tests for the film-to-video conversion.

Using the disc, I identified two definitive winners, the Denon DVD-1910 ($270; usa.denon.com) and the Panasonic DVD-S97 ($300; panasonic.com). Each of them upconverted video using processors from Faroudja, a respected chip designer. The funny thing was, none of the other players, except at times the Sony DVP-NS975V ($300; www

.sonystyle.com), came close to those two in the tests, but while watching store-bought movies, I found the five players neck and neck in picture quality.

I did some homework and found that the disc's film-to-video test wouldn't work correctly with three of the players because the test disc wasn't made the way movie DVD's are. Fortunately, "Insurrection" solved that problem. An opening scene all covered in hay provided a crowning example of how bad the picture can be without proper film-to-video conversion, and how drastic the fix can look.

Uneven results in some other tests baffled me, so I went looking for jagged edges in my own video life. I found potential jaggies in DVD's of two TV shows, "The Office" and "Aqua Teen Hunger Force." When I played the same scenes over and over on each DVD player, there were, again, no front-runners. In fact, only the Samsung DVD-HD841 ($200; samsungusa.com) and the Toshiba SD-5970 ($180; tacp.toshiba

.com) stood out as jaggie busters, though not enough to win medals.

After many hours of staring at each player, I reached real conclusions. Compared with the rest, the Samsung is weak on detail, and it makes pictures darker and heavier than they should be. The Denon, while delivering beautiful detail and smooth pacing, has an annoying habit of washing out colors. The Denon and the Samsung lose points because they use DVI outputs, so you need to run separate wires for audio.

The other three use HDMI, which means a single cable from player to TV (and, soon enough, one straight line from player to A/V receiver to television). Toshiba's picture was excellent, but it was a poorly built unit. The remote required excessive force. I had to push the open/close button on the player several times before it responded.

It may be easy to tell an Opus One from a JackaRoo, but comparing higher-order Bordeaux requires a more nuanced taste. DVD players are sometimes similarly hard to rank. Consumer Reports recently gave 21 models from $50 to $280 the same score for picture quality (excellent).

I started with five players and ended up with two, the Panasonic and the Sony. Though the Panasonic beat the Sony in the Silicon Optix test, their pictures looked identical in everyday movie watching. Both players are well built, easy to handle and packed with features. They each play high-resolution surround-sound audio discs, though different competing formats: Sony reads Super Audio CD, and Panasonic reads DVD-Audio. They even do the same admirable job of displaying photos burned to a CD (though neither was perfect in that department).

Since I couldn't decide between the two, my advice is to buy the one that's on sale.


David Pogue is on vacation.

Hello,

Much earlier in the thread folks made reference to using the s97 with a Panny 7uy. However, I have only seen references to feeding the component inputs of the display, no one has discussed HDMI->DVI to the 7uy.
What I need to know is whether any synch or crush issues exist with this combo. It's too bad that Panasonic makes no HDMI blade to this plasma. Somewhat off topic, but does anyone know of plans for an HDMI blade for the 7uy. Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Michael

Above article gives a thumbs up for Panny (slightly over Sony)

Largest post I've seen lol!!

BdoUK, you plan to get like the legendary Panasonic's and try them out?

Sango,

Well I have been trying to find a Denon 2200 around. I may be hot on the trail of an unopened one :).

Of course I have heard great things about the RP-82 and the XP-30. However I have to tell you I do love the build quality of my RP-91. How superior would you say the 480p output of the 82 is to the 91?

Overall I am still very happy with my RP-91. My gf and I watched Happy Gilmore last night with it and I am always amazed at the picture quality. I guess I have just been bitten by the upgrade bug and wanted to give the S97 a spin.

If I was smart I would probably just wait for high def DVD players to hit the market before I upgrade...but then again this hobby isn't always about doing the smart financial thing :).

Is anyone using the S97 with the Panasonic ED plasma TH-42PD25U/P via HDMI? I realize the Panny is not HD, but curious if there is any improvement at 480P over the component? And, have you noticed any noticeable audio-sync problems? Thanks.

OK folks, I am on my way... thanks for the handholding. Will try out a DVD-Audio disc tonight over 6 RCA cables to see how it sounds.

Couple questions - I bought 3 sets of cables (red & white) for front surround, back surround, and center/subwoofer. This is ok right? I don't need to buy a special subwoofer rca to go from the DVD player to the receiver, right?

Also, anyone know what the best Audio menu settings are for DVD-Audio? I know it is at a higher rate, but not sure about PCM, Bitstream, and how many hertz. Thanks all

Originally posted by rwestley
Sango do you have any news from your contact at Panasonic. I do hope
that they plan to offer a firmware upgrade to fix the problems you have
reported. Is there any timetable on the fixes?

You may want to try out this :

http://www.pennswoods.net/~rnorton/crystal%20ball.JPG


Or, if you are one of those indecisive types that likes to re-study the proposal from every different angle and tilt to come up with a alternative answer from the original forecast, try

http://www.mattelgames.com/magic8/flash_index.asp

Originally posted by Sango
caboman,

You might want to remove the email address because you're opening yourself for automated spam bots to get the address.

Sango

I did, thanks.
Caboman

BdoUK,

The colors on the RP82 reproduces in both P and I appear to be a bit different than that of the RP91 but I tend to like the RP82's colors output in preference. The RP82's progressive PQ is cleaner detailed compared to the RP91. Both of these units are very good considering when they were made.

The RP91 is very study and big and looks like the S97 incorporate all of that in a small unit since the unit is more quieter than the ones made in 2002.
----------------------
rwestley:

No new news have come yet. We all just need to be patient because I did ask status updates but they did assure me Panasonic and Faroudja are working on it.

Sango

Thanks Sango, It is indeed good news that both Panasonic and Farouja
are working on the problems.

docdish, there is supposed to be an HDMI blade for the 7UY series. It doesn't seem to be available yet though. I have a 6UY which only has the DVI blade available and no plans for HDMI on it unfortunately.

Originally posted by Lodey
OK folks, I am on my way... thanks for the handholding. Will try out a DVD-Audio disc tonight over 6 RCA cables to see how it sounds.

Couple questions - I bought 3 sets of cables (red & white) for front surround, back surround, and center/subwoofer. This is ok right? I don't need to buy a special subwoofer rca to go from the DVD player to the receiver, right?

Also, anyone know what the best Audio menu settings are for DVD-Audio? I know it is at a higher rate, but not sure about PCM, Bitstream, and how many hertz. Thanks all

I would guess that those settings (PCM, Bitstream, p. 16 of manual) shouldn't matter much with the setup you describe, because they pertain to digital, not analog, output.

But now you've got me wondering: could changing those settings possibly affect analog sound quality because of some effect (interference, noise) of the digital circuitry on analog? (On my Sony DVP-NS500V there is a way to turn off the digital output, and the manual says that the effect of the digital circuitry on analog is "minimal," which implies that it is not zero.) Does anyone know? I don't mean this as a specific question about the S97 (and if it is then off-topic I apologize) but just generally whether there is a good reason to think that, with DVD or CD players, having the digital output on can make any difference to the analog sound. Thanks.

Originally posted by MDeB
I would guess that those settings (PCM, Bitstream, p. 16 of manual) shouldn't matter much with the setup you describe, because they pertain to digital, not analog, output.

But now you've got me wondering: could changing those settings possibly affect analog sound quality because of some effect (interference, noise) of the digital circuitry on analog? (On my Sony DVP-NS500V there is a way to turn off the digital output, and the manual says that the effect of the digital circuitry on analog is "minimal," which implies that it is not zero.) Does anyone know? I don't mean this as a specific question about the S97 (and if it is then off-topic I apologize) but just generally whether there is a good reason to think that, with DVD or CD players, having the digital output on can make any difference to the analog sound. Thanks.

S97 manual p. 9 mentions AUDIO ONLY mode, that will stop video output,
it also says HDMI video and audio are also stopped. Not sure if this mode
enhances 6-chan RCA outputs, probably less noise.

The audio out only option doesn't stop analog for audio output.

AkaStp,

It's very easy by just putting in the disc and selecting yes and no to update on the remote. There is nothing more easier than that. The firmware update which I released is a good example of it.

Sango

Originally posted by dsmith901
Is anyone using the S97 with the Panasonic ED plasma TH-42PD25U/P via HDMI? I realize the Panny is not HD, but curious if there is any improvement at 480P over the component? And, have you noticed any noticeable audio-sync problems? Thanks.

I would like to know also....

I noticed that on the first page review that Paul commented that the macroblocking disappeared when using 480i on the component outputs. Have all of you who are experiencing the macroblocking given this a try and did it reduce MB? I don't mean to question Paul's findings but I am curious if people using different displays have consistently seen this problem clear up when using a 480i output.

If it were not for the MB issue I would seriously consider getting this player. If using an interlaced output is a good work around then I may go ahead and get it and use interlaced until a firmware fix comes out.

How would you owners describe the general quality of the 480i component output? Is it something you could watch consistently?

The ones from like the RP82, XP series and the others. If you look at the hugh firmware thread, that's the one I mean.

You all may find this 12/02/04 article by Wilson Rothman of the NY Times interesting. In his opinion Sony NS975V and Panny 97S win out, but then read the following review of his review. All in all simply another interesting article on this technology.

STATE OF THE ART For DVD's, a New Definition (http://www.ilovehdtv.com/hdlibrary/viewtopic.php?t=1300)

Originally posted by BdoUK
Eric,

I noticed it during the scene (I think chapter 17?) where Shrek and Co. launch the assault on the castle. As I look around the darker background areas, I could see small artifact boxes all over the place. I am very familiar with this scene as my gf and I love to watch it almost nightly on the RP-91 :).


BdoUK,

Watched Ch 17 a few times last night very closely and didn't notice any MB whatsoever. Everything looked crystal clear to me. In the background you can clearly make out the scattered clouds, etc - no artifact boxes. Also checked out Ch 16 and 18 and didn't notice any issues. Ch 17 is the one where they are storming the castle.

Paul,
Please check your PM.

After I have this player for a while, here is my impression:
whoa, I really like this player, way more better than my Toshiba SD3950. The funny thing is first, my wife complained why did we need another player, to her they are all the same, but she complaines no more after watching few movies with me. This is what she said, Wow, it is look more real :D

I try to compare between component 480p and dvi 1080i, hard to tell which I like better, I felt like 480p looked sharper than 1080i but 1080i look more lively, more vibrant (not too much though)

I had a bad disk (chinese) which couldn't play in SD3950. For S97, no problem, play as well as good disk.

I hardly saw any Macro blocking, may be I don't try hard to look for it, every movie is excellent for me.

Weird thing is even I turn off the HDMI video, I still received the signal through HDMI. How come?

This player is a keep.

Now who want to buy my SD3950, Panasonics dv30? and Panasonics s35?

In conclusion:

I am a Happy baby with new toy, and I wouldn't forget to thank Paul, Sango, and everyone else who contributed to this thread which enforced my purchased.

By the way, if anyone got updated firmware, please distribute it

My Olevia LCD has DVI/HDCP input.
Will this Panny support this?

Got some "nice" RCA/composite cables from Best Buy yesterday and went home and popped the 6 of them into the back of the S97 and connected them to my Kenwood 8070 which has an input specifically called 6.1CH/DVD - put those in there, and then put in my new DVD-A disc, StainD 14 Shades of Grey, and proceeded to be blown away by the richness of the sound, the tones, and the discrete channels. Very clear, very amazing. Thanks to all who helped me out with this...I am extremely happy and can't wait to get more DVD-A discs.

Paul, hugh2, Sango....
Can this player be SDI modded by anyone ?

My Sony DVP NS975V failed yesterday and I am considering switching to the S97. Where are you all buying the S97? Return policies have recently become important to me.

I have been a happy RP82 owner since Fall 2002. I needed best in class 480i deinterlacing and 480p output to a PLV60 (now sold).

If I get an S97, what will I give up compared to the RP82, especially related to the analog component output?

Also, has anyone tried playing a CSS-decrypted (or unencrypted) DVD on the S97, and checking to see if HDCP is disabled on the HDMI output?

Can the S97 upconvert unencrypted DVD's over analog component (1080i/720p)?

Rgb,

1080i and 720p are not selectable output options for the S97 via component.

Paul

Originally posted by csimington
My Sony DVP NS975V failed yesterday and I am considering switching to the S97. Where are you all buying the S97? Return policies have recently become important to me.

if u have magnolia or frys in ur area, they should have it.

atleast in bay area, they have it.

Originally posted by lnguyen


I try to compare between component 480p and dvi 1080i, hard to tell which I like better, I felt like 480p looked sharper than 1080i but 1080i look more lively, more vibrant (not too much though)


i tried using 480i over component and hdmi 720p at the same time and watched them side-by-side on my PT50LC14 ( PIP )

the flesh tones seem to be orange-ish in the 480i mode.

Could this be because of the color matrix difference?
ie. component is using sd color matrix, while hdmi uses hd color matrix

Btw...
this thread is really helpful in enjoying/playing with this new player.

thx to paul and others for their excellent effort.

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Paul, hugh2, Sango....
Can this player be SDI modded by anyone ?

I exchanged an email with JVB a few days ago and they indicate that the Mpeg decoding and D/A conversion is performed within the same chip so there apparantly is no way to access the decoded digital signal on this player. I haven't delved further but like any problem there's usually a workable solution.

Originally posted by koopalei
Just figured it out about my sound problem, some how "Multi Re-Master"
was set to "1", and it needs to be OFF. Manual P.9 says it may not work with
audio CD disc. This button toggles through all the 3 settings, it should not work
that way, since kids can hit it by accident.

Koop

I was able to play audio CDs and MP3 CD-Rs with Multi Re-Master set to 1.
(but the PCM set to 96Khz)

I am connecting the dvd player to my Yamaha HTR5760 via coax digital cable.

But, i faced problems when I set the PCM to 192Khz..

1) when I played a CD-R Mp3 disc, no sound came out even if I
set the Multi Re-Master to Off.

2) when I played a regular CD-A disc, my receiver automatically enters
STRAIGHT mode. It would not allow me to use any of the virtual
DSP modes (like digital surround/dts) in my receiver.

any idea why this happens..

btw..what is the right PCM setting for audio cds?
44 or 96 or 192Khz

anyone have a page where the s97 can be purchased?...........

Originally posted by iamtarun
I was able to play audio CDs and MP3 CD-Rs with Multi Re-Master set to 1.
(but the PCM set to 96Khz)

I am connecting the dvd player to my Yamaha HTR5760 via coax digital cable.

But, i faced problems when I set the PCM to 192Khz..

1) when I played a CD-R Mp3 disc, no sound came out even if I
set the Multi Re-Master to Off.

2) when I played a regular CD-A disc, my receiver automatically enters
STRAIGHT mode. It would not allow me to use any of the virtual
DSP modes (like digital surround/dts) in my receiver.

any idea why this happens..

btw..what is the right PCM setting for audio cds?
44 or 96 or 192Khz

I am not 100% sure, since I have not played with it.
But, I believe normal CDs are 44K, 96/192K is for DVD-Audio. Next week, I will venture into DVD-A once I got my Outlaw 950 pre-amp and DVD-A materials.

Koop

Originally posted by koopalei
S97 manual p. 9 mentions AUDIO ONLY mode, that will stop video output,
it also says HDMI video and audio are also stopped. Not sure if this mode
enhances 6-chan RCA outputs, probably less noise.

Thanks Koop.

Originally posted by iamtarun
I was able to play audio CDs and MP3 CD-Rs with Multi Re-Master set to 1.
(but the PCM set to 96Khz)

I am connecting the dvd player to my Yamaha HTR5760 via coax digital cable.

But, i faced problems when I set the PCM to 192Khz..

1) when I played a CD-R Mp3 disc, no sound came out even if I
set the Multi Re-Master to Off.

2) when I played a regular CD-A disc, my receiver automatically enters
STRAIGHT mode. It would not allow me to use any of the virtual
DSP modes (like digital surround/dts) in my receiver.

any idea why this happens..

btw..what is the right PCM setting for audio cds?
44 or 96 or 192Khz

If your receiver can handle a max of 96 kHz, maybe that is the reason why 192 kHz didn't work.

Audio CD's are 44.1 kHz. But I think the correct setting of PCM Digital Output depends on what the maximum sampling rate is of the receiver or DAC you have the player connected to; you shouldn't have to change it depending on what kind of disc you're playing at the moment. Am I correct about that?

Originally posted by LarryDi
My Olevia LCD has DVI/HDCP input.
Will this Panny support this?

Larry,

The Syntax *should* be able to accept the upconverted signal from the Panasonic via an HDMI->DVI conversion cable. I don't have the Syntax display to definitively state that there won't be a conflict specific to the models.

Paul

Originally posted by penticton102
anyone have a page where the s97 can be purchased?...........

I called J&R Music World and they just got in a new shipment of 100+ units of the Panny S97s. They also have the cheapest price online.

iamtarun,

With the DVD-S97, the component 480i/p utilize the SD matrix.

With HDMI 480p the SD matrix is used. With HDMI 720p/1080i the HD matrix is used.

Orange facial tones can mean the color adjustment (either player or display) is too great. Please verify/adjust the color settings via DVE or Avia.

Best regards,

Paul

Originally posted by lnguyen

I am a Happy baby with new toy, and I wouldn't forget to thank Paul, Sango, and everyone else who contributed to this thread which enforced my purchased.

By the way, if anyone got updated firmware, please distribute it

Inguyen,

I'm glad you're enjoying your new DVD player and you are very welcome!

I've been enjoying the S97 very much as well.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Larry,

The Syntax *should* be able to accept the upconverted signal from the Panasonic via an HDMI->DVI conversion cable. I don't have the Syntax display to definitively state that there won't be a conflict specific to the models.

Paul

Paul...so a DVI-D cable won't work?

I saw a "HDMI male to DVI-D single link" online advertised...would this suffice?
TIA

LarryDi,

The Panasonic has an HDMI output so some sort of converter cable or adapter is needed. The adapter might work fine.

Paul

What adjustments are available on the S97S to better mate the video and audio tracks?

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Rgb,

1080i and 720p are not selectable output options for the S97 via component.

Paul

Fair enough- adding HD resolution analog video circuits and dacs probably would add a fair amount of cost.

If this is not the case, then why should a manufacturer disallow resolution upconversion over analog or HDMI/DVI on unencrypted DVD's?

Originally posted by SJLK
What adjustments are available on the S97S to better mate the video and audio tracks?

There is a Time Delay that ranges from 0 to 100ms in increments of 20.

The reason why manufactures do not allow upconversion over component
is pressure from the movie studios. They claim it violates copy protection.

It is very easy for manufactures to allow it but they will be sued by
the movie companies. Sigma the chip company has already been
sued.

"Radsman (and others) --

Good news for me (and, I hope, others). My S97S arrived today, and it's now outputting a 720p signal from its HDMI port, through my Dtronics DVI switcher, into the DVI input on my Sammy HLN507W DLP HDTV with the aid of a Monster Cable HDMI -> DVI adaptor. No error messages, just a very pleasing picture. The DVI adaptor is plugged directly into the DVI player (I'm not using the HDMI cable supplied with the player). The only problem so far is that there's an IR conflict with my older Technics DVD-audio/video player that I'll probably be moving to another TV now anyhow. I have no idea why the Dtronics box works for me and won't for others with the S97S."

I have the same switcher and I have tried to use it with the Panasonic AE700 and the 97S. I can not get it to work. I just get snow from the
97S to the AE700. It works with the Scientific Atlanta Box and another
DVD player I own. Does anyone have any suggestions or has
anyone used this switcher with this combination and has had success.

If you have had success what cables are you using and how long are they.

I'm using the Monster HDMI - DVI adaptor to feed into my BENQ8700+ with no problems at all :) Right now I'm using the supplied cable, but I'm expected a RAM 30' HDMI cable next week (hopefully).

Very happy with the player so far. The MacroBlocking artifact does not seem to be a problem with this player/projector combination. I'm only able to see the artifact @ 3' from the screen. I hven't spent that much time with the player yet, but my initial impressions are very positive!

BTW, I'm running the player @ 720p

Has anyone had success using the Dtronics 2 way switcher? If so what
cables are you using?

Originally posted by silvertone
Same here. I can get 1080i/720p over HDMI and 480p out of component at the same time. It does default to 480i on the components when you first try this, but you can change it to 480p.

Akastp and Silvertone,

I could not get 480p on component while the VideoOutputMode was HDMI ON and hdmi cable was connected. ( since
my Panny PT50LC14 has PIP support, it accepts signals on both HDMI and component
inputs simultaneously)

I could get 480p on component while the VideoOutputMode was HDMI ON
and the hdmi cable was disconnected. But once I connect the HDMI cable,
the component changed to 480i. ( this is similar to the situation
Akastp has explained in his post where the HDMI connection was not terminated]

I could get 480p on component while the VideoOutputMode was HDMI OFF.
Once I change the VideoOutputMode to HDMI ON, component output
changed to 480i.

Page14 of the manual, [Video Output Mode] says that when VideoOutputMode is set to HDMI ON, only 480i will be output on the component.

Is there something I am not doing right?

Silverstone,
What TV do u have? Does it support receiving signals on
HDMI and Component inputs SIMULTANEOUSLY ?

Has anybody else been able to get both 480p on component and 720p on HDMI simultaneously ? If so, pls post how u achieved it?

thx

Originally posted by iamtarun
Akastp and Silvertone,

I could not get 480p on component while the VideoOutputMode was HDMI ON and hdmi cable was connected. ( since
my Panny PT50LC14 has PIP support, it accepts signals on both HDMI and component
inputs simultaneously)
thx

I have a Sony 34XBR960. My tv won't let me do PIP with the inputs I'm using (HDMI/Component). I have the HDMI sound disabled, I press the TV/VIDEO buttom and go back and forth between my two inputs, one being set for 1080i or 720p and the other set for 480p. I don't have two tv's to see if I would get the two outputs simultaneuously. The only thing I had to do intially was to go to the Setup/Picture menu and change the default setting of 480i to 480p for the component output on the dvd player.

The BenQ 8700+ and Panny S97 work just perfectly. Very little calibration needed and im using a long run (23ft DVI cable from Ram w/ DVI-HDMI adapter)... no problems at all.

Originally posted by sooke
Paul,

Thanks so much for this excellent review.

Do you, or anyone else, know if the Panasonic or the Sony has discrete IR codes for ON/OFF?

Thanks,

Sooke

Has anyone found discrete IR codes? I've tried the pronto codes for Panny DVDs on Remote Central with no luck.

Originally posted by silvertone
I have a Sony 34XBR960. My tv won't let me do PIP with the inputs I'm using (HDMI/Component). ...... I don't have two tv's to see if I would get the two outputs simultaneuously.
Originally posted by Akastp
I am NOT trying to use the 720p HDMI and 480p components simultaneously, such as by having HDMI feed one display and component feed a different display.

thx for the clarifications.

Had my first experience with "artifacting" on the s97 (not sure if it's MB or not). Was watching the Godfather Part 1 (from the original box set release a few years ago) and noticed that whites had this fuzzy almost glowing appearance to them. You could see it in the opening scenes on Don Corleone's tuxedo shirt and it was very obvious when he or Tom (can't remember which) glances at a piece of white paper.

Figure it has more to do with the disc than anything else - overall PQ isn't great on this title.

An addendum to my tiny little review on my CRT set: The Superbit menu on Spiderman 2 looks significantly better on this player than my Mits DD-8040. I don't know if this means there's going to be better PQ when actually watching normal material.

Too bad about the damned MB problem. Other than that I love this player.

I am comparing this player to the Sony. Earlier, I had found that this player produced very bad color banding on my DILA tv and the Sony did not. However, I have since found that this player does a MUCH better job with film source material with no obvious color banding problems. However, on animation sources (Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc.) it is horrible. I have tried fiddling with the Noise Reduction and other parameters to no effect. I have also tried Auto 2 and Video 'transfer' options (Auto 1 is default).

Does somebody else have a similar experience? Any ideas for why this might be the case and what might be done to fix it?

Thanks

so, is this the player to get if i have a panny 6UY? also, if i do get it, is there any reason for me not to set the output at 480p (since my tv is 480p)? meaning, could i somehow get better performance by sending a higher signal (1080i or 720p) that then gets downconverted by my TV?

thanks in advance.

gaajar,

That's an interesting result with the computer animation. My Looney Tunes box and Jonny Quest Box look spectacular.

Best regards,

Paul

jlee, I have the same plasma and got this DVD player a couple of weeks ago. I'm using the component outs but will be getting the DVI blade soon. Right now the picture looks great. I would definately recommend it. And and when HD plasma's fall under 2K this will still be a great DVD player to use.

I want the DVI blade to eliminate the digital to analog and back to digital conversion that takes place using the component out. I expect that this will be more important than whether you send it 480 or 720 (you cannot use component for 720 as there is no upconversion over component). Also, rmemeber that although both DVDs and the ED 6UY aare 480 on the horizontal axis, they are not the same on the vertical. ED plasma are 850 or so and EVDs are 680 or 720 so whether you send it a 480 siganl or 720 signal, there will be some scaling. That is, even if you select 480P there is still some scaling done by the 6uy to it's resolution.

thanks JSchulte. much appreciated.

I just purchased and am enjoying a Toshiba 52HM84 DLP. I was going to round out my new HT with this Panny DVD player and Outlaw Audio 755/950 combo. Earlier in the thread I read that in order to utilize DVD Audio that you would need to run the HDMI cable from the DVD player to the receiver or pre pro and then run another HDMI cable to the DLP. The problem is that the Outlaw pre/pro does not have an HDMI port. I don't know that I have read of many that do. How do you get around this problem as I would like to use my HDMI port from the DVD player? Or is there another quality pre/pro out there that has HDMI for under $1000.

Cheers!

cbell2112,

To utilize the digital DVD-Audio, HDMI must be used with a suitable device (Panasonic SA-XR70, for example), however the 6 RCA jacks on the back of the S97 can be utilized for analog 5.1 (DVD-A, DD, DTS).

Paul

Thanks Paul. In other words there is a work around. Is there a big loss of quality this way or should it work well.

Thanks.

I think it works well. I've listened to DVD-Audio via the 6 RCA jacks and have enjoyed it immensely. Until recently with the introduction of the new HDMI 1.1 specification, that's how everybody did it!

Paul

I currently connect my Pany DVD S97 into my Hitachi Vs810 using the HDMI cable, and use the Optical out from the TV to my Yamaha Rxv595 receiver. I have set the HDMI audio to bitstream from the pany. Can someone please explain why my receiver only outputs in Prologic and not DD 5.1? I thought the whole purpose of HDMI was to transport a digital video and multi-channel audio signal .

Just a note that when I'm watching an HD OTA channel, my receiver will always recognize and display DD 5.1. using the optical out from the TV
To get around this problem for now, I have connected a separate Optical cable from the S97 directly into my receiver.

thanks

Originally posted by cbell2112
I just purchased and am enjoying a Toshiba 52HM84 DLP. I was going to round out my new HT with this Panny DVD player and Outlaw Audio 755/950 combo. Earlier in the thread I read that in order to utilize DVD Audio that you would need to run the HDMI cable from the DVD player to the receiver or pre pro and then run another HDMI cable to the DLP. The problem is that the Outlaw pre/pro does not have an HDMI port. I don't know that I have read of many that do. How do you get around this problem as I would like to use my HDMI port from the DVD player? Or is there another quality pre/pro out there that has HDMI for under $1000.

Cheers!

I also go this route for DVD-Audio, my Outlaw 950 pre-amp should arrive soon, and it can take 6-chan inputs from the Pany S97. Personally, I would think this is a better route than receiver with HDMI, I rather keep video and audio separate. That is why lots of audiophiles have differeent systems for HT and music.

Koop

Hello 951Glenn,

HDMI does transmit multi-channel audio, but only within the secure HDMI realm. The security has been broken.

Just a couple of guesses:

1. It might be possible that the Hitachi TV is treating the the HDMI digital audio input as strictly two channel.

2. It is also possible that since the HDMI "chain" is broken, is now optical, and no longer digitally secure (HDCP) that the signal is dumbed down to two channel digital for the optical (I think this the most likely reason).

What happens to DVD-Audio discs with this connection? Two channel as well? Any audio?

Does the Hitachi manual make any mention of HDMI audio and the results of the various connections?

Paul

Just picked one of these babies up for use with my 507UY. I do not yet have a HDMI blade and am just using component. I must say that the picture blows away my old Pioneer Elite 37. Even my 10 year old said wow dad, what did you do to Spiderman2 Can't wait to try the video through the HDMI whenever the balde becomes available.

Just received my S97 last week. The picture quality is a clear improvement over my former DVD player (which was 'high-end' 5 years ago). The upconversion works quite well - and I haven't had macroblocking issues, though I've only had the chance to watch about 4 movies.

Main reason for this post: I'm able to watch both PAL and European region DVDs using this unit. Also, DVD+/- R's both work. (I'm using the HDMI connection - I don't know if this helps with the PAL). This is a great feature if, like me, you've spent extensive time in Europe and wanted to enjoy those classic british comedies (and Shaun of the Dead) on DVD using your usual equipment.

Thanks to all who have posted - I'm very happy with my s97. Many thanks to Mr. Bigelow for his extensive work here.

Hello Jeff,

You're welcome! Not aware of any region-free firmware update.

Paul

Hi Jeff:

Just curious, which unit version do you have?

Reguarding region free, there is a region free hack via chipped remote.

Sango

Originally posted by jeffwong
Just received my S97 last week. The picture quality is a clear improvement over my former DVD player (which was 'high-end' 5 years ago). The upconversion works quite well - and I haven't had macroblocking issues, though I've only had the chance to watch about 4 movies.

Main reason for this post: I'm able to watch both PAL and European region DVDs using this unit. Also, DVD+/- R's both work. (I'm using the HDMI connection - I don't know if this helps with the PAL). This is a great feature if, like me, you've spent extensive time in Europe and wanted to enjoy those classic british comedies (and Shaun of the Dead) on DVD using your usual equipment.

Thanks to all who have posted - I'm very happy with my s97. Many thanks to Mr. Bigelow for his extensive work here.

I thought someone mentioned earlier in this thread that they weren't able to get the PAL disc to work with their television? Then someone else mentioned that it passed the PAL signal without converting it so it would work on certain projectors... Is this correct or have I missed something in the 95 pages before this? Thanks!

chirpie:

The unit plays PAL (confirmed via Region check).

If the dispaly device(TV, projector, etc...) supports PAL, it will display properly, otherwise you a convertor since it will look scrambled.

Sango

Originally posted by Foxbat121
jayfsee007,

You can download the manual for DVD-S97S from Panasonic's web site and check for yourself. Last time I read the downloaded manual, it says, if you want to get digital audio from coax or optical out, you need to disbale the HDMI sound out in setup.
Anybody know where? I looked but could not find it.

Big Worms: Are you talking abt the manual? If yes, then the link is in the first post.

You can find any Panasonic (US models) manuals on their parts site (http://service.us.panasonic.com/operman/).

Found it. Thanks!

Originally posted by Sango
Hi Jeff:

Just curious, which unit version do you have?

Reguarding region free, there is a region free hack via chipped remote.

Sango

Sango, could you please post or PM me the information about the hack?

Thanks!

The information is highly confidential. (this is a joke!!)

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Hello 951Glenn,

HDMI does transmit multi-channel audio, but only within the secure HDMI realm. The security has been broken.

What happens to DVD-Audio discs with this connection? Two channel as well? Any audio?

Does the Hitachi manual make any mention of HDMI audio and the results of the various connections?

Paul

Paul
Thanks for your reply. I do not own any DVD-Audio, so I can't comment. The Hitachi manual makes no mention of HDMI audio inputs or output through the optical cable. I did have another vs810 owner confirm the identical problem, so at least I'm confident that my TV is functioning properly. So i guess I'm SOL unless Hitachi has a solution.
thanks

Try www.dvdchips.co.uk for region free hack info. You need buy a special remote control from them.

I already knew that a two days ago!!

The initial post was just to give them a surprize.

Ah.....

So there is a "remote hack"? Has anyone on the forum confirmed the effectiveness of this device, side affects (RCE, for example), and any way to get back to Region 1 should RCE be an issue?

Paul

Hmm..they must be storing a certain key strokes in a program that are activated when pressing the button...so there is definitely a hack out there...lets see who gets to it now...other than this remote option.

Sango: What abt your Panny contacts? Do they have this info? How about the firmware?

mallu2u:

If it's must be a cryptic one which no regular remote can do.

As far as the update goes, no status as of yet. They will let me know what it's ready.

Sango

Tell your contacts that the likelihood for some of us to buy an S97 increases if someone leaks a firmware update to make the player region and RCE-free. ;)

Not possible!! They are only following HQ's decision!

Bought this player last night.
It was to replace my Bravo 1.
Panasonic is built better and I doubt it has the cue-up or disc freeze problems I experience with the Bravo.
But on my Hitachi 50v500 LCD RP- the Bravo gives me a better, sharper image.
I also tried a Black and white film on DVD and the Panasonic gave me a "pink cast-streak" over the bright areas of the picture.
I was able to eliminate some of the problems by switching to 720p and using the Cinema 1 mode.
In the end I pulled out the Panasonic and the Bravo is back is use.

I was using a Monster cable HDMI > DVI with Panasonic.
Can it be that the Bravo gives me a better image due to the direct DVI connection?

anyone else see this Pink streak on B&W films?

Oh my God, see the macroblocking in the "underworld" superbit last night. It only appeared sometimes during the dark scene but not every dark scene. Some of the scene had very smooth black, but some other showing some. Don't know why. It is lucky that it is only minor, otherwise this player is bad. However, PQ of other were awsome that worth to keep the player. Hey check out the Chronices of Riddick with this player. The PQ was so stunning that my eyes were almost popping out.:D

Hey Paul, the firmware version should be: 85E528, at least that's what mine shows.

The way to find it is:

Setup->Display-> Hit the Display button on the Remote and the firmware will flash for about 2-3 seconds on the right of the screen.

Here is another vote for a region free hack, or at least a method that would allow us to change regions - if only so that I can watch the japanese version of "Hero".

Originally posted by markhout
Here is another vote for a region free hack, or at least a method that would allow us to change regions - if only so that I can watch the japanese version of "Hero".

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll release a "remastered" version like they always do for movies like this.

The remote for my RV65 opens the tray for my new s97. Now why can't Panasonic just change the software in the S97 remote so the trays opens?

Welcome to the forum!

There's no button on the S97 remote for open/close. Still, I find it a curious omission (oversight?).

Alternatively, they could change the player firmware to have open/close tray be selectable on one of menus.

At least selecting "Play" closes the tray.

Paul

My Harmony 688 universal remote, when loaded with basic S97 info provides an "eject" command on the LCD and it actually works fine... weird.

jcc:

Looks like you found an alternate method for the firmware display to appear which works for the S97 only, otherwise it doesn't work on all the other units except the way my method is.
---------

That reminds me, since we already knew the firmware version like about two months ago, Paul why is it still TBA?

What <tbd>? ;)

I was hoping that some others might turn up but haven't. The change has been made.

tba = to be announced!
tbd = to bd done?

In a way you're right!! I had a feeling you were waiting for something.

I guess you could write, currently known to date this version.

Does this thing have a screen saver?

Even my former Sony NP725P had one...

How do I set the time to turn on if there is one?

Panasonics never had a screen saver.

The S97 has a shut off option after 30 minutes thou which you have to enable in the setup menu.

Originally posted by Sango
Panasonics never had a screen saver.

The S97 has a shut off option after 30 minutes thou which you have to enable in the setup menu.

Darn! I'll have to be careful not to burn my new plasma.

Thanks!

Yup!! just turn it off or flip it to a cable station or something! =)

Paul Bigelow

Please check your PM when you get a chance.

Penton-Man,

You have a response! :)

Paul

Hi,

i just got the s97 last week and i have been testing it. Does anyone else see a green tint or tinge in flesh tones or things that should be yellow. I've seen it in some facial tones, some on blond hair and some others. It doesn't appear to be a problem in every movie. LOTR, had a little bit, but other wise that movie looked great. the Bourne supremacy had a LOT of it. I'm using the Sony 30HS420 tv via hdmi. I have not noticed this green tinge with my old player, a pioneer connected via s-video, maybe just can't produce enough color though. I have not checked via component yet. Thanks,

jason

Perhaps checking the color via Avia or Digital Video Essentials (using the filters) on the Pioneer and then comparing with the Panasonic might reveal some clues.

Perhaps the TV needs some adjusting to compensate for the new S97 player. Not all DVD players have equal color.

Paul

Jason,

I think this is a difference you are seeing in your TV's inputs, not the DVD player (for the most part). You are using S-Video input for the Pioneer and HDMI for the S97. These signals are taking different paths in your TV's input processing, which do not have identical color processing characteristics. You should compare both on the same input to your TV.

Originally posted by jason978
Hi,

i just got the s97 last week and i have been testing it. Does anyone else see a green tint or tinge in flesh tones or things that should be yellow. I've seen it in some facial tones, some on blond hair and some others. It doesn't appear to be a problem in every movie. LOTR, had a little bit, but other wise that movie looked great. the Bourne supremacy had a LOT of it. I'm using the Sony 30HS420 tv via hdmi. I have not noticed this green tinge with my old player, a pioneer connected via s-video, maybe just can't produce enough color though. I have not checked via component yet. Thanks,

jason

Originally posted by 951Glenn
I currently connect my Pany DVD S97 into my Hitachi Vs810 using the HDMI cable, and use the Optical out from the TV to my Yamaha Rxv595 receiver. I have set the HDMI audio to bitstream from the pany. Can someone please explain why my receiver only outputs in Prologic and not DD 5.1? I thought the whole purpose of HDMI was to transport a digital video and multi-channel audio signal .

Just a note that when I'm watching an HD OTA channel, my receiver will always recognize and display DD 5.1. using the optical out from the TV
To get around this problem for now, I have connected a separate Optical cable from the S97 directly into my receiver.

thanks

Can you connect your optical cable from the dvd player directly to your receiver, bypassing the tv? That may solve your problem. Your tv's getting audio through HDMI, so I'm not sure why you're running the optical as well to the tv.

blue439,

His last sentence indicates that is what he is doing to bypass the problem is this case the "receiver" is the 5.1 Yamaha receiver.

When he has the problem he is not running the optical *to* the TV but is using the optical *from* the TV to the Yamaha. The thinking is that the S97 multichannel HDMI to the Hitachi TV will translate into multichannel from the Hitachi TV optical and I don't think it will because the secure HDCP chain is "broken" at that point.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Perhaps checking the color via Avia or Digital Video Essentials (using the filters) on the Pioneer and then comparing with the Panasonic might reveal some clues.

Perhaps the TV needs some adjusting to compensate for the new S97 player. Not all DVD players have equal color.

Paul

OK, I recalibrated both using dve. I used the picture controls on the s97 to adjust that one. Both are are calibrated spot on now. had to turn the color to -5 on the s97. The green tint is still there. no change. it's there at all resolutions, 480p, 720p and 1080i, via hdmi. I'm going to try the component later today.

Jason

Originally posted by jason978
Hi,

i just got the s97 last week and i have been testing it. Does anyone else see a green tint or tinge in flesh tones or things that should be yellow. I've seen it in some facial tones, some on blond hair and some others. It doesn't appear to be a problem in every movie. LOTR, had a little bit, but other wise that movie looked great. the Bourne supremacy had a LOT of it. I'm using the Sony 30HS420 tv via hdmi. I have not noticed this green tinge with my old player, a pioneer connected via s-video, maybe just can't produce enough color though. I have not checked via component yet. Thanks,

jason

Yes, I have a Pany LCD RP PT50LC13, using HDMI-DVI adapter, and calibrated the best I could with DVE. I also get the exact GREEN effecst that you see. This is the first TV set that I used DVE, but I personally don't think DVE disc is made for LCD rear projectors. I had to crank up contrast/brightness quite a bit on both TV and S97 to get a more acceptable picture to ME. Other than that I love the PQ on this player.

Maybe everybody can post what settings they have for their own equipment, that way we all can try them out. Here are mine:
DVD Pany S97
Contrast +3
Brightness +1
Sharpness 0
Color 0
NR/MPEG NR 0

TV Pany LCD Projector PT50LC13
Brighnest at middle
Picture 3 bar from max
Red at middle
Green 1 bar below middle
Blue at middle

Koop

well i tried it over component, no green tint to anything. The overall picture and color is MUCH better using the 1080i over hdmi. Any ideas on how to tame the green without messing up everything else?

Even if I can't tame the green I'm still going to keep it. Even the 480 P on component is better than my old player. I'll just hook it up with the hdmi and component. So, if a particualr movie looks bad via hdmi I'll just toggle over to the component input. Thanks

jason

jason,

Actually just finished watching Bourne Supremacy (good flick by the way - better than the first one I thought) and honestly I think the greenish tint is supposed to be there. I have watched a number of movies on my s97 connected via HDMI-HDMI to my Samsung HLP5063 (720p / YCbCr 4:4:4) and this is the first movie that has had "green push" issues. I remember from watching the first movie that many of the scenes are supposed to be dark and they add that greenish cast to it to make it more "mysterious" or something. In fact, many of the outdoor scenes - esp. aerial shots of cities, etc had didn't show the green tint.

So I don't think the s97 inherently has green push issues - at least not in my setup.

Hello,

I don't notice a "green push" -- just a light pinkish cast to low level gray. If viewing the green filters via the DVE on the color palatte does not show an enhanced green as compared to the white level I would say something else is happening. There have been some reports of a greenish cast to black with the Denon DVD-1910, I believe. If the picture quality is changing from DVD to DVD, I would tend to think the DVD would be the difference.

Paul

I recently watched Bourne Supremacy on my XP30 and noticed the green as well. I see exactly the same with my S97. This is just the way the movie was mastered. My display is a Sanyo PLV-Z2 BTW with a 100" pure white screen.


Originally posted by EricScott
jason,

Actually just finished watching Bourne Supremacy (good flick by the way - better than the first one I thought) and honestly I think the greenish tint is supposed to be there. I have watched a number of movies on my s97 connected via HDMI-HDMI to my Samsung HLP5063 (720p / YCbCr 4:4:4) and this is the first movie that has had "green push" issues. I remember from watching the first movie that many of the scenes are supposed to be dark and they add that greenish cast to it to make it more "mysterious" or something. In fact, many of the outdoor scenes - esp. aerial shots of cities, etc had didn't show the green tint.

So I don't think the s97 inherently has green push issues - at least not in my setup.

Paul-

What a great thread you started about this machine. I just found it and read the first 20 pages then WOW found it had nearly 100 to go through. I will go back and read the whole thread when I have a couple hours so I am sorry if this is answered somewhere else further along in the post.

I just bought my first HD TV last month, the JVC HD52Z575 which is LCOS based technology and 90% of my viewing is DVDs so I wanted to find the best player I could with an HDMI out to take advantage of my TV's HDMI input. I ordered the Toshiba SD-5970 and it was a very good machine that exhibited an extremely sharp picture, but in my opinion had a very bad green crush problem and also the remote was badly designed and unresponsive. You would have to hit the play, pause or arrow buttons 3 or 4 times before they would do anything. Even the buttons on the units itself needed to be pushed more than once. Drove me crazy.

So I sent the unit back before my trial period was up and decided to really splurge and exhanged it for an Onkyo SP-1000. That player is awesome: fantastic picture quality, great flexability, and one of the most well designed remotes I have ever seen. For some setups however, mine included, this unit has one fatal flaw. It has a very bad A/V sync problem on every DVD I play - lips keep moving after audio has stopped. There is currently no sync adjustment for the HDMI out only for the analog outs, poor advance planning on their part. Also, on a player this expensive it should be able to handle the A/V syncing internally on its own with no user adjustments. Onkyo is aware of the problem, but could be a while before new firmware is out and I don't know if I can wait that long. My original Toshiba unit that was 10 times less expensive had absolutely no sync problems on the 200 or so DVDs I played during my trial period.

I am thinking of sending this unit back and getting another unit with HDMI for now until Onkyo fixes this problem or comes out with its next generation of this player. But my options of finding another excellent quality DVD player with HDMI and optical audio out are growing slimmer. The Panasonic S97S was my next choice.

Here are a few questions that I hope you could be kind enought to answer.

1) First and foremost, has anyone reported any A/V lip-syncing problems with this player?

2) In most of the earlier pages of this thread you say you are using this player at 1080i. With the Toshiba and Onkyo units I found that the best setting for me is 1280x720p that is the native resolution of my set. Does this player have that particular setting?

3) Questions about pillarboxing and resolutions supported:

I am assuming from what you said in your first few pages that if I had this player set to the 1280x720p resolution, it would show widescreen movies with black bars on the top and bottom, anamorphic widescreen movies taking up the full screen, and 4:3 DVDs like TV series with a pillar box that IT provides with black bars on the side.

I think you mentioned that when this player does the pillarboxing, it displays the image in the right proportion with no shrinking or stretching, but there is some noise. I get quarter inch bands of noise along the picture edges also with the Onkyo when it pillarboxes.

Instead of letting the Panasonic unit pillarbox, can you manually selelct a resolution of 720x480p and let your set provide the side bars? If yes, does this get rid of the noise?

Also can the different resolutions be selected directly on the remote by simply pushing a button that toggles through the resolutions without having to go into a setup menu to do this? If yes, would it be too much trouble to list the resolutions you can toggle through?

One more thing. If you can change resolutions easily manually and do not like the pillarboxing that the unit provides automatically, can you turn off that feature so it won't do it?

Thank you in advance for your help and sorry if these things have been answered already in the middle of this post. I will go back and read it all soon!

Best regards,
Milo

Originally posted by milo77
1) First and foremost, has anyone reported any A/V lip-syncing problems with this player?


Limited reports of lip synch problems - mostly film dependent. I personally haven't noticed any. There is a audio delay setting in the menus if you have a problem.


2) In most of the earlier pages of this thread you say you are using this player at 1080i. With the Toshiba and Onkyo units I found that the best setting for me is 1280x720p that is the native resolution of my set. Does this player have that particular setting?


Yes you can output 480p, 720p or 1080i over HDMI. 720p is what I use and it looks great.


3) Questions about pillarboxing and resolutions supported:

I am assuming from what you said in your first few pages that if I had this player set to the 1280x720p resolution, it would show widescreen movies with black bars on the top and bottom, anamorphic widescreen movies taking up the full screen, and 4:3 DVDs like TV series with a pillar box that IT provides with black bars on the side.


Correct. No aspect ratio changes are needed on the display. 1.78 & 1.85 movies take up the entire screen, 2.35 have black bars on the top and botoom and 4:3 movies are pillar boxed properly.


Instead of letting the Panasonic unit pillarbox, can you manually selelct a resolution of 720x480p and let your set provide the side bars? If yes, does this get rid of the noise?


You can turn off auto pillar boxing and fix the output at 16:9. Can't coment on whether it gets rid of noise. Personally haven't noticed much noise on 4:3 dvds although the only 4:3 dvds I have are TV box sets which tend to not be of the greatest quality to begin with.


Also can the different resolutions be selected directly on the remote by simply pushing a button that toggles through the resolutions without having to go into a setup menu to do this? If yes, would it be too much trouble to list the resolutions you can toggle through?


There is no button on the remote to change output resolution. However it is quite easy to do in the menus and you can do it while the disc plays. Don't need to stop playback like with the Sony 975. There is however a "Zoom" button on the remote which lets you toggle between a whole bunch of aspect ratio choices if you don't want to automatically pillarbox 4:3.

Originally posted by koopalei
Yes, I have a Pany LCD RP PT50LC13, using HDMI-DVI adapter, and calibrated the best I could with DVE. I also get the exact GREEN effecst that you see. This is the first TV set that I used DVE, but I personally don't think DVE disc is made for LCD rear projectors. I had to crank up contrast/brightness quite a bit on both TV and S97 to get a more acceptable picture to ME. Other than that I love the PQ on this player.

Maybe everybody can post what settings they have for their own equipment, that way we all can try them out. Here are mine:
DVD Pany S97
Contrast +3
Brightness +1
Sharpness 0
Color 0
NR/MPEG NR 0

TV Pany LCD Projector PT50LC13
Brighnest at middle
Picture 3 bar from max
Red at middle
Green 1 bar below middle
Blue at middle

Koop

Couple weeks ago, I watched "Chronicles of Riddick" right after followed instructions and calibarated with DVE, the dark scenes had major MB. Now, after retuned the setting (read above) with my own reference movies, I watch Riddick again and this time no MB. So, I pop in the DVE disc again, and sure enough all the brightness, picture, and contrast look OK too.

My point is that for people like me that have no experience with DVE/AVIA, it is not that easy to use it accurately. I think my settings are little bit on the bright side, but they just look good to me.
Has anyone tried my settings out? And how do they look to you?

Koop

Has Panasonic actually made a statement about the macroblocking issue? I really want this player to replace my LG, but it's not worth it if I'm still going to have macroblocking. When I picked up an S97 a few weeks ago, I returned it because the macroblocking was even worse than the LG.

If this one problem can be resolved, I'd buy it again in a heartbeat (and keep it this time). I just couldn't justify keeping it without knowing when a fix would become available.

In my setup I have the Toshiba 26HF84 matched with the Panasonic S97 over HDMI. I was wondering what you guys reccomend I set the player/monitor too....480p? 780p? 1080i? What is the best.....I'm new at all this.

Great post, Paul

I posted this problem in a different area code with no response, so maybe you can help:

Just set up my Denon 2805 AR, with a Pioneer 1120 and a Panasonic S97 DVD player. The Panny has an HDMI output, which runs to the HDMI input of the Pioneer's media receiver. I have also run a digital coax from the Panny directly to the digital audio in of the Denon (thinking, I will want to play audio CD's on the Panny).

Here's the problem: I cannot play an audio CD on the Panny without turning the Pioneer on! I thought maybe I had to bypass the HDMI audio out on the Panny, so I turned that off in the Panny's setup menu. That resulted in my getting no sound at all. When I set up an old, non-HDMI DVD player to the digital audio in, I have no trouble playing audio CD's.

Does the HDMI out of the Panny completely override the digital coax out? Is that what is going on? Do I have to live with either a) playing audio CD's with the TV on, or b) having to connect a second player for audio CDs?

I'm stumped -- any help would be greatly appreciated!

Wayne

Originally posted by Wayno77
Great post, Paul

Just set up my Denon 2805 AR, with a Pioneer 1120 and a Panasonic S97 DVD player. The Panny has an HDMI output, which runs to the HDMI input of the Pioneer's media receiver. I have also run a digital coax from the Panny directly to the digital audio in of the Denon (thinking, I will want to play audio CD's on the Panny).

Here's the problem: I cannot play an audio CD on the Panny without turning the Pioneer on! I thought maybe I had to bypass the HDMI audio out on the Panny, so I turned that off in the Panny's setup menu. That resulted in my getting no sound at all. When I set up an old, non-HDMI DVD player to the digital audio in, I have no trouble playing audio CD's.

Does the HDMI out of the Panny completely override the digital coax out? Is that what is going on? Do I have to live with either a) playing audio CD's with the TV on, or b) having to connect a second player for audio CDs?
Wayne

For what it is worth, I have a setup similar to yours and I am not experiencing this problem.

I have the digital out (coax or optical--it makes no difference) going to a two-channel DAC, while the HDMI cable is hooked up to the TV. I get sound from the digital out whether or not the TV is on. (When the TV is turned on, the signal drops briefly but is then restored.)

Maybe you are experiencing something different because of a setting somewhere in the audio menus, but, to answer your question, you should be able to play CDs without turning on the TV.

Originally posted by goldenegg
Has Panasonic actually made a statement about the macroblocking issue? I really want this player to replace my LG, but it's not worth it if I'm still going to have macroblocking. When I picked up an S97 a few weeks ago, I returned it because the macroblocking was even worse than the LG.

If this one problem can be resolved, I'd buy it again in a heartbeat (and keep it this time). I just couldn't justify keeping it without knowing when a fix would become available.


I hear you. I desperately want to re-purchase this player if the MB is fixed. Desperately I tell you!

Thanks Paul for this thread. Excellent work.

While I'm still in the "learning to calibrate" mode with my new Plasma and new S97, I'm very happy with my purchase decision. Other than a lack of discrete on/off codes, I have no complaints.

Here's to 100 pages of excellent reading material.

Thanks Smeagle! I hope you enjoy the player -- there's a lot to learn!

Paul

Sango, if possible when you contact Panasonic again ask them to include
and open close option on the remote when they update the firmware.

I hope that they will be some news soon.

thanks

Originally posted by Wayno77
Great post, Paul

I posted this problem in a different area code with no response, so maybe you can help:

Just set up my Denon 2805 AR, with a Pioneer 1120 and a Panasonic S97 DVD player. The Panny has an HDMI output, which runs to the HDMI input of the Pioneer's media receiver. I have also run a digital coax from the Panny directly to the digital audio in of the Denon (thinking, I will want to play audio CD's on the Panny).

Here's the problem: I cannot play an audio CD on the Panny without turning the Pioneer on! I thought maybe I had to bypass the HDMI audio out on the Panny, so I turned that off in the Panny's setup menu. That resulted in my getting no sound at all. When I set up an old, non-HDMI DVD player to the digital audio in, I have no trouble playing audio CD's.

Does the HDMI out of the Panny completely override the digital coax out? Is that what is going on? Do I have to live with either a) playing audio CD's with the TV on, or b) having to connect a second player for audio CDs?

I'm stumped -- any help would be greatly appreciated!

Wayne
I think you need to add a set of left/right audio cables from the Panny to your receiver. That's how I have mine set up and I can play CDs on the Panny.

Hey everyone. Short time lurker, first time poster. You guys helped influence my purchase, so I gotta post this.

Well, they arrived today. "They" are the S97 DVD player and XR70 Receiver. Wow! Amazing difference in picture quality on the DVD player from my 5 disc Sony of a few years ago. The crazy thing is, my TV doesn't arrive until Thursday (Hitachi 57S715 CRT RPTV). Therefore, I am talking about great picture quality on a good old interlaced, S-video 27" TV.

This DVD player does an incredible job at keeping shimmering at an all-time low on a standard signal. I mostly hooked it all up to test it and give the new audio system a whirl. Obviously, hunting for macroblocking is going to be a sad mission to worry about once I get it hooked up to the Hitachi. I hope for the best.

Meanwhile, the XR70 has clean sound. Clean sound at rising volumes. It is nice to pump it up a bit and not feel like high-end goes one way and low-end goes another. The balance seems just great. (I am on 6 ohm fronts and 8 ohm surrounds)

I am in it for the long haul & hope that macroblocking doesn't become a big issue for me. This receiver is awesome & I hope I don't see any problems with it. So far, I am very impressed with both.

Interlaced introduction to Spiderman 2 Superbit looks awesome. Can't wait to see it in HD over HDMI. :D <with fingers crossed, of course>

Thanks Paul and everyone else on the numerous tips and option critiques on this player. I finally got it. One quick question I have, which I couldn't seem to find a response on +125 responses, is regarding the supplied HDMI cable.

-Does it make much of a difference (for those whose seen or know the difference) between the supplied HDMI cable and off-market brand such as one made by Belkin, or one made by Monster?

-Thank you in advance.

My TV specs are: Hitachi 50VS810 (LCD Projection)

Originally posted by Wayno77
Great post, Paul

I posted this problem in a different area code with no response, so maybe you can help:

Just set up my Denon 2805 AR, with a Pioneer 1120 and a Panasonic S97 DVD player. The Panny has an HDMI output, which runs to the HDMI input of the Pioneer's media receiver. I have also run a digital coax from the Panny directly to the digital audio in of the Denon (thinking, I will want to play audio CD's on the Panny).

Here's the problem: I cannot play an audio CD on the Panny without turning the Pioneer on! I thought maybe I had to bypass the HDMI audio out on the Panny, so I turned that off in the Panny's setup menu. That resulted in my getting no sound at all. When I set up an old, non-HDMI DVD player to the digital audio in, I have no trouble playing audio CD's.

Does the HDMI out of the Panny completely override the digital coax out? Is that what is going on? Do I have to live with either a) playing audio CD's with the TV on, or b) having to connect a second player for audio CDs?

I'm stumped -- any help would be greatly appreciated!

Wayne

I have a similar setup, using the S97 HMDI output to a Sharp LCD and the S97 optical output to my receiver, so I could play CD's without having the TV on. I could not initially play CD's without going through the Sharp LCD. However, after turning off the Multi Re-Master on the S97 remote, I was able to play CD's. The footnote for this feature on Page 9 of the S97 guidesays, "This feature may not work when connected with Digital Audio Out or HDMI AV Out terminals." This may explain why no sound is heard when using the S97 optical outout and having the Multi Re-Master switched on.

CkRtech,

Welcome to the forum,

Nice matching combination! If macroblocking appears to be an issue have a read in the first post of this thread on how to minimize its effects. I wrote a section on it. Basically, with a well calibrated TV I have to go looking for macroblocking to find it.

Remember, this player doesn't play HD content. The 'S97 just presents a signal that matches HDTV signal -- just as 480p isn't HD, 1080i/720p isn't necessarily HD.

sachin00,

You're very welcome and welcome to the forum.

I use the 6' HDMI cable supplied with the 'S97. It has worked well. I've seen nothing that would indicate to me the cable needs upgrading.

Enjoy your purchases and if either of you have any questions, you know where to ask. :)

Paul

Thank you, Paul.

Heh. Yes - I know the player doesn't play HD content. :D I am just excited about seeing it on a big screen set which is capable of progessive scan.

Nice place here! Always great to have a "go to" place for knowledge of any kind.

- Chris


Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
CkRtech,

Welcome to the forum,

Nice matching combination! If macroblocking appears to be an issue have a read in the first post of this thread on how to minimize its effects. I wrote a section on it. Basically, with a well calibrated TV I have to go looking for macroblocking to find it.

Remember, this player doesn't play HD content. The 'S97 just presents a signal that matches HDTV signal -- just as 480p isn't HD, 1080i/720p isn't necessarily HD.

sachin00,

You're very welcome and welcome to the forum.

I use the 6' HDMI cable supplied with the 'S97. It has worked well. I've seen nothing that would indicate to me the cable needs upgrading.

Enjoy your purchases and if either of you have any questions, you know where to ask. :)

Paul

rwestley,

I don't think it would be able to be done because it's going to be hard to convince them that its' a flaw. With my S97, I don't even use the S97 remote, I have RP91 remotes which I bought a few because of teh design and it does have the open/close so I'm not worried about it.

Sango

Sango, I guess I will get the RP91 remote or use a universal remote which
does have the open/close on it. It is strange that it is not available on this unit. I do hope that Panasonic reports back on their progress with the
microblocking issue soon.

Thanks for all your efforts.

Well, after researching HDTVs and DVD players for months, I finally took the dive into the HD pool. I decided to go with the Panasonic 47x54 RPTV and the Panasonic DVD-S97S. I wanted to relay this funny story when I went to UE to buy the DVD player...

I looked around at all the local retailers in my area (SouthEast Arlington in DFW). No one had this DVD player, except UE. When I found it I was shocked at the price. It was 'on sale' for nearly $100 OVER the MSRP!!! I talked to one of the commisioned sales people and told him I have been researching this DVD player for a month and the MSRP is $299...why is your 'sale' price so much higher than MSRP?! He looked in the computer and said that that player has a very unusually high commission for a DVD player...the highest he had ever seen. I told him the price must be wrong and they put a '3' where the '2' should have been. SO he knocked $100 off the price and I bought it. I asked him if they sold any of those Pannys at that price and he said they had sold 'quite a few' so far.
Amazing what the uninformed consumer has to put up with sometimes!

Thanks so much to all of you here to help me find the right player at the right price! I love my setup and after a quick eyeball adjustment (still waiting for my DVE disc to be delivered) I popped in a few DVDs to see if the hype of these two video devices was warranted. My final verdict... ABSOLUTELY!

I am so glad I found this forum!

Thanks all for the great info! Have ordered one of these players from Vanns. Will be replacing the Samsung HD-841.

My display is an HLN4365W1, have to do the HDMI>DVI adapter route.

I assume that BB carries them for not an exorbitant price?

Thanks again for the great info on this player.

hi everyone i just got my s97 and i am very happy with it the picture ROCKS:D

i have some questions that i know you have answered in this thread but it is 100 pages and i have tried the search function without any result so i ask and i hope someone is kind enough to answer these probably stupid questions.

1. which HDMI colorspace should i choose and why ("RGB" or "YPBRC" (4:4:4))

2. what is HDMI COLORSPACE ENHANCEMENT and should i have that on and why.

thanks in advance:p

Originally posted by ZoomAir
hi everyone i just got my s97 and i am very happy with it the picture ROCKS:D

i have some questions that i know you have answered in this thread but it is 100 pages and i have tried the search function without any result so i ask and i hope someone is kind enough to answer these probably stupid questions.

1. which HDMI colorspace should i choose and why ("RGB" or "YPBRC" (4:4:4))

2. what is HDMI COLORSPACE ENHANCEMENT and should i have that on and why.

thanks in advance:p

Zoomair - good questions. These are confusing and subtle issues which I have just figured out in the last few days or so with great help from Bob Pariseau and others.

1) HDMI Colorspace - Sounds like you are connecting to an HDMI input on your display. Assuming you have more than one choice (which it appears you do) for the colorspace option, I would go with YCbCr 4:4:4. DVDs are "encoded" (probably not the best word) in YCbCr. HDMI is capable of transmitting YCbCr as well as RGB, while DVI can only handle RGB (this is a "compatibility" issue that isn't mentioned as much as it probably should be - see below). So if you were connecting to a display with a DVI in, you would be forced to use RGB and the S97 needs to convert YCbCr to RGB before it sends it out. I have found that YCbCr looks a little better on my Samsung DLP but not dramatically better. Makes sense since you are avoiding the YCbCr ---> RGB conversion, which isn't required over HDMI-HDMI.

2) HDMI Colorspace "Enhancement" - This option only applies if you choose RGB. If you choose YCbCr it is irrelevant. This option is marketing speak for PC RGB (Enhanced) vs. Video RGB (Standard) - enhanced sounds like it should be better, but it really isn't. Most displays are expecting Video RGB which includes BTB (Black is 16 in Video RGB and 0 in PC RGB) and WTW (White is 235 in Video RGB and 255 in PC RGB), so normally you would leave it on Standard. However if you have an older display with a DVI input that is expecting PC RGB (presumably was designed to connect to a PC), then you should choose Enhanced to properly force the S97 to convert Video RGB to PC RGB before outputing. Either way you are not going to have BTB or WTW data if your display requires PC RGB. It's just a matter of picking the setting that matches your display. But again if you choose YCbCr in #1 above, then it doesn't matter how this is set.

Originally posted by EricScott
Zoomair - good questions. These are confusing and subtle issues which I have just figured out in the last few days or so with great help from Bob Pariseau and others.

1) Sounds like you are connecting to an HDMI input on your display. Assuming you have more than one choice (which it appears you do) for the colorspace option, I would go with YCbCr 4:4:4. DVDs are "encoded" (probably not the best word) in YCbCr. HDMI is capable of transmitting YCbCr as well as RGB, while DVI can only handle RGB (this is a "compatibility" issue that isn't mentioned as much as it probably should be - see below). So if you were connecting to a display with a DVI in, you would be forced to use RGB and the S97 needs to convert YCbCr to RGB before it sends it out. I have found that YCbCr looks a little better on my Samsung DLP but not dramatically better. Makes sense since you are avoiding the YCbCr ---> RGB conversion, which isn't required over HDMI-HDMI.

2) The HDMI Colorspace Enhancement option only applies if you choose RGB. If you choose YCbCr it is irrelevant. This option is marketing speak for PC RGB (Enhanced) vs. Video RGB (Standard) - enhanced sounds like it should be better, but it really isn't. Most displays are expecting Video RGB which includes BTB (Black is 16 in Video RGB and 0 in PC RGB) and WTW (White is 235 in Video RGB and 255 in PC RGB), so normally you would leave it on Standard. However if you have an older display with a DVI input that is expecting PC RGB (presumably was designed to connect to a PC), then you should choose Enhanced to properly force the S97 to convert Video RGB to PC RGB before outputing. Either way you are not going to have BTB or WTW data if your display requires PC RGB. It's just a matter of picking the setting that matches your display. But again if you choose YCbCr in #1 above, then it doesn't matter how this is set.

ahhh ok, THANKS FOR THE REPLY it is really appreciated BTW i have a sanyo Z3 lcd projector so i should probably go with "YCbCr" (4:4:4) and standard mode i will try this tomorrow

THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR REPLY:D

Good stuff Eric !!!!!!

Especially if it was in collaboration with Bob Pariseau. I loved his dissertation on the history of DVD players and such.

Yeah his posts really are impressive - check out this post (and links within to other posts) that discuss these issues in great great detail:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=478085

I agree, Mr. Pariseau has made some rather nice posts of late. Very thorough, informative, and just good reading!

Paul

Originally posted by SJLK
I have a similar setup, using the S97 HMDI output to a Sharp LCD and the S97 optical output to my receiver, so I could play CD's without having the TV on. I could not initially play CD's without going through the Sharp LCD. However, after turning off the Multi Re-Master on the S97 remote, I was able to play CD's. The footnote for this feature on Page 9 of the S97 guidesays, "This feature may not work when connected with Digital Audio Out or HDMI AV Out terminals." This may explain why no sound is heard when using the S97 optical outout and having the Multi Re-Master switched on.

Thank you so much, SJLK. This was a perfect fix for the problem. Who woulda thunk it?
--Wayno

Hi. I'm new to the thread....and have read some posts concerning the green issue. I'm viewing the S97S over HDMI on a new Samsung DLP (5674). Have watched about 4 or 5 movies thus far...including Elf, Bourne Supremacy, and Terminal. The green seems pretty overwhelming in each of them, most notably in Bourne. I'm a little stressed about it. Seems to be common among some of the other posters here. Does anyone know if Panasonic offers any kind of a fix for this? Or, are there any other suggestions? Otherwise I think the PQ is brilliant.

about the HDMI colorspace i have now changed to "YCbCr" and (4:4:4) you mentioned that DVD:s are encoded in "YCbCr" does that include PAL also or is it only NTSC i live in sweden (europe) and play mostly region 2 PAL DVD:s.

I just got a HLP-5663w Man date Oct 2004 and I am having excessive green as well across the board. From my xbox via component, HD 811 sat receiver via DVI and Panny s97 via hdmi. A buddy of mine has an older HLN-50xx model and had same issue as well. He went into SM and adjusted some green gamma settings in DNIE menu. It seemed to clear up issue. I also have a pincushion and over scan problem. I am requesting for a new set. I hope I get it on Friday. Another test would be to use THX optimizer test patterns on dvd movie discs and look at the grey scales. I get green dots. I also tried AVIAs test disc and they only show up slightly but are still there. Test different inputs make sure it’s not just the DVD player. I wish other people could please post some more experiences and possible fixes for this problem.

From what I can gather, the "green push" issue is with the display, not the S97 player. Others have reported green push issues with Sony RPTV, if I recall. I am not aware of any fix from Panasonic.

Ishahin,

What does viewing the DVE or Avia color decoder patterns via the green filter reveal? Do gray scales look uniformly gray or a is a color emphasized?

I do not experience green push with the S97 via a Panasonic LCD or a Hitachi plasma and confirmed with DVE and Avia color decoder pattern.

Paul

I belive Paul is correct about the "green push" issue. I am using the S97
with my Panasonic AE700 and I have no green push problems. I do wish
that Panasonic could resolve the Macroblocking issue with a firmware update. I just watched the New Lord of the Rings special edition and the
picture was amazing.

I dont doubt its a issue with the TV. I know alot of poeple on this forum have Samsung HLP 63w sets. I would be grateful if someone who has had the issue explain what I can adjust to fix it.

Samsung DLP’s are known for green push, HLN’s have it, wouldn’t be surprised that the HLP’s have it. I have an HLN5065, but have roughly calibrated it using service menu settings from the HLN Tweaks Thread. Worked quite well for my DVI input. Using the S97 I have no green push.

Originally posted by auksmart
Samsung DLP’s are known for green push, HLN’s have it, wouldn’t be surprised that the HLP’s have it. I have an HLN5065, but have roughly calibrated it using service menu settings from the HLN Tweaks Thread. Worked quite well for my DVI input. Using the S97 I have no green push.

One of the major improvements in the HLP series was to add a 7th segment to the color wheel, which is intended to reduce green push and temporal dithering. For some reason Samsung decided to go back to the 6 segment color wheel on their 74 series (the newest models) so I would expect the 74 series is more prone to green push than the 63 series or the 85 series (which both have 7 SCWs).

I dont' notice much any push on my 5063. Make sure you have the Picture Mode set to Cinema. Others have reported that going into the Service Menu and setting Gamma to zero can help as well, but I haven't tried this yet.

It's pretty funny how many posts in various threads have discussed how Bourne Supremacy looks so green - I really think that is intentional - it's part of the movie. So don't use the BS as a reference disk.

Im getting green plush across all inputs and I did try playing around with gamma setting. I am fighting to get a new set. I hope that fixes problem. BTW the overscan on this set is horrible. Is there anyway to adjust it through TV or Panny dvd player?

hi again

i am still not sure about witch colorspace to use, i understand that i should use "YCbCr" but why 4:4:4 and not 4:2:2 and also i mostly play PAL discs are does also encoded with "YCbCr" or should i use "RGB" with PAL.

thanks in advance

Originally posted by ZoomAir
hi again

i am still not sure about witch colorspace to use, i understand that i should use "YCbCr" but why 4:4:4 and not 4:2:2 and also i mostly play PAL discs are does also encoded with "YCbCr" or should i use "RGB" with PAL.

thanks in advance

Not sure about how PAL DVDs are encoded. If RGB looks better to you than YCbCr then go with it. As long as your display is expecting Video RGB you won't be clipping black or white data and I'd imagine a digital conversion of YCbCr to RGB is pretty lossless.

I just ordered an HDMI-to-DVI cable (3 ft') for under ten bucks. Can't vouch for the quality yet, but the merchant's reseller ratings were good. I figured a single cable may be a better route than an HDMI cable and separate adapter. PM for a link or search the FatWallet forum.

Great info on the S97. Appreciate all of Paul's and everyone else's contributions. I only wish I had more time to tinker!

After some playing around with my new S97 on my Sanyo PLV-Z2 projector (firmware 1.07) via DVI (100" screen)...I really like it. I am running 720p (the Z2 is 1280x720 native) and I have yet to see any macroblocking. I have been through DVE once very quickly and has to turn the brightness up to +2 to get perfect BTB setting. I am using RGB - Standard on the HDMI of the S97 since my Z2 is DVI. My colors seem spot-on with little or no adjustment. I was worried since I saw a some green in Bourne Supremacy...but apparently, that is the way the movie is mastered since others are complaining about this movie as well. DVE says all is OK. Compared to my XP30 (with Sango's latest firmware), the S97 does seem to be a bit sharper. Maybe there is some edge enhancement (I can see a small amount with DVE)...but it sure looks nice. I have the sharpness on my Z2 set to 0 and the s97 set to 0 as well. I have played around with the DNR setting and it's a tossup for me between 0 and +1. I can tell +1 removes some of the natural film grain sometimes seen in the background of some scenes...but you really have to look for it.

There is only one nagging problem for me right now though. For some reason, on 4:3 DVDs, my Z2 locks to "True" with the DVI-HDMI connection to the S97, which stretches all 4:3 content to fit in 16:9 space. Nothing I do can seem to get rid of this. I have tried setting the display type in the S97 from 16:9 to 4:3 and it does nothing. Whatever it is doing, it is forcing my Z2 to stretch this material (and my Z2 will not let me set it's display type to Normal to correct it, every time I try to change my Z2's display mode, it won't let me and says it is locked to "True" and shows a yellow "!" on the screen). Any suggestions? Anyone else have a Z2 or Z3 and this complaint? Or maybe some Panny AE500/700 owners? This one problem forces me to use my XP30 when watching any 4:3 material :(.

Does anyone know if there is anything special you need to do to view VCD/SVCD. I have many CD-R's with varying type of .mpg and .mpeg files on them. My Apex 5131(conventional non progressive scan DVD player) has no problem reading these files but the Panny does not accept any of the discs(at least no the 3 that I have tried). I know they have to conform to some kind of standard but I am assuming that they do since they are playable on the Apex.

Also, I noticed that a CD-R with .jpg's would not show the pictures as clearly as my Apex.

Do I need to adjust my settings to get the player to work with these files? Or is it that I am using the HDMI port and this is some type of HDCP problem.

Cheers!

Page 5 of the S97 manual indicates what discs/formats that are supported and indicates some discs/formats that are not supported. SVCD must comform to IEC62107. Perhaps a "Google" search on that specifcation will help. Don't know what format the Apex will support/not-support.

Paul

Thanks Paul--

I did read that but I have no way to really now if they are compliant with the International Electrical Code. I do know that they work on another DVD player(a much cheaper one at that) and was just wondering if this is an issue with some type of setting on the DVD player.

Thanks

I haven't seen a setting on the Panasonic (consumer settings anyway) that would govern the type of disc to play back.

Paul

Sounds like the Sony is going to beat the S97 in the upcoming Secrets reviews:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4812367#post4812367

Saw the post. Don't know what Kris is hinting at or if he even meant to imply the Sony is better. He seems to like the Sony and mentioned some problems with the Panasonic Faroudja implementation. Don't know how it will all fall out in the rankings. I guess we'll all see in a week or two.

Paul

It's pretty amazing when you read through some of the Samsung 941 threads how many people who are looking in the $300 range seem to totally discount the S97 - don't know why. With all of the issues with the Samsung people either are content to deal with them or seem to be jumping up to a much higher price range (2910, etc) without giving the S97 a try. Their loss I guess.

The Samsung might be easier to find in stores that have liberal return policies and a lot of folks have Samsung displays. It would seem natural to keep everything "all in the family".

I'm sure the macroblock enhance is keeping some people away from all FLI-23xx Faroudja-based players. There is also a segment probably waiting for the "Secrets..." tests to be released since it appears that several high-profile, sub $300, upconverting players will be part of that evaluation.

The 2910 and others have the "universal" player appeal audio enhancements as well as some having both HDMI and DVI.

Paul

Frankly, I know I shall feel a bit sad if the ranking is higher for Sony, since I settled on the Panny! Hope the issues mentioned could be (and hopefully are soon) fixed by a firmware

No reason to feel sad about the rankings. If you're happy with the player, then --- you're happy!

Paul

IS the firmware flash upgradable on the Panny?

Also how do you check what version you have?

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
No reason to feel sad about the rankings. If you're happy with the player, then --- you're happy!

Paul

Exactly.

Do you really think that the Krell (MSRP $8,000) owners are sad after reading the Secrets Shootout.

I imagine they were laughing their butts off.:)

Paul, just like you said. There is no green push on my panny tv, too. It it the problem of the display device, which expect SD color matrix in 720p or 1080i. Just like Sony 975, which outputs 720p and 1080i in SD matrix, will have green depress problem on the display device expect HD color matrix in 720p or 1080i.

I would like to say - Buy the same brand dvd player as your display device.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
From what I can gather, the "green push" issue is with the display, not the S97 player. Others have reported green push issues with Sony RPTV, if I recall. I am not aware of any fix from Panasonic.

Ishahin,

What does viewing the DVE or Avia color decoder patterns via the green filter reveal? Do gray scales look uniformly gray or a is a color emphasized?

I do not experience green push with the S97 via a Panasonic LCD or a Hitachi plasma and confirmed with DVE and Avia color decoder pattern.

Paul

This may show my ignorance on this, but wondering if anyone else has experienced this...While watching dvds on this player, I've switched back and forth between 480p and 720p mode. I was expecting the PQ to be better in 720p mode, but in fact, it seemed like the opposite was true. In general, the 720p picture seemed like it had some slight grainyness to it. Are some dvds just meant to be viewed in 480p mode while others are best viewed in 720p mode? If so, how does one tell the difference? Any input is appreciated.

Paul - I will play around with AVIA this weekend....thanks.

Originally posted by lshahin
This may show my ignorance on this, but wondering if anyone else has experienced this...While watching dvds on this player, I've switched back and forth between 480p and 720p mode. I was expecting the PQ to be better in 720p mode, but in fact, it seemed like the opposite was true. In general, the 720p picture seemed like it had some slight grainyness to it. Are some dvds just meant to be viewed in 480p mode while others are best viewed in 720p mode? If so, how does one tell the difference? Any input is appreciated.

Paul - I will play around with AVIA this weekend....thanks.

Maybe, you see much more details in 720P, and that sometimes can be perceived as grainy pictures. You can tune down the S97 Sharpness to -1 or -2 and see if that looks better to you

For me, S97 hooking up to Pany LCD RP PT50LC13, 480P is no comparison to 720P. I got more details and better colors with 720P, I had 0 as the S97 sharpness. But my brother has the new Pany DLP RP and he set the S97 sharpness to -1, as he got too much details.

I love the S97, if anyone is about to jump into HD scene, I highly recommend the new Pany DLP RP and the S97. I really prefer my brother's DLP RP set up over my LCD RP.

Koop

I have a question:
I've been reading that some owners are "playing" with the S97's controls (sharpness, brightness,etc.)....is this OK or we should leave in "0" all these controls and work only with the TV ones?
Santiago

Yes, I am hooking this up tonight to watch Return of the King with three other people. Someone please answer this question.

Originally posted by chacruz
I have a question:
I've been reading that some owners are "playing" with the S97's controls (sharpness, brightness,etc.)....is this OK or we should leave in "0" all these controls and work only with the TV ones?
Santiago

In the first post in this thread, Paul lists some recommended initial settings. Check it out.

Originally posted by lshahin
This may show my ignorance on this, but wondering if anyone else has experienced this...While watching dvds on this player, I've switched back and forth between 480p and 720p mode. I was expecting the PQ to be better in 720p mode, but in fact, it seemed like the opposite was true. In general, the 720p picture seemed like it had some slight grainyness to it. Are some dvds just meant to be viewed in 480p mode while others are best viewed in 720p mode? If so, how does one tell the difference? Any input is appreciated.

Paul - I will play around with AVIA this weekend....thanks.

It comes down to which scaler is better - the one in your display or the one in the S97. Either way the S97 is deinterlacing for you. But if your display has a vastly superior scaler, it is is possible to have better results from 480p than 720p. However, most people prefer 720p (or the native resolution of their display) to 480p. This way the display does no processing.

Originally posted by chacruz
I have a question:
I've been reading that some owners are "playing" with the S97's controls (sharpness, brightness,etc.)....is this OK or we should leave in "0" all these controls and work only with the TV ones?
Santiago

On my Samsung DLP, I found the picture control adjustments on the S97 were finer (more precise) than those on the display. So I didn't spend much time calibrating the display and set the DVE reference patterns with the S97. Results will vary by display but in general I think the picture controls on the S97 are pretty decent - at least for contrast and brightness.

Originally posted by EricScott
On my Samsung DLP, I found the picture control adjustments on the S97 were finer (more precise) than those on the display. So I didn't spend much time calibrating the display and set the DVE reference patterns with the S97. Results will vary by display but in general I think the picture controls on the S97 are pretty decent - at least for contrast and brightness.
Thanks Eric!!
And on your Samsung you just leave the controls at factory levels?
Santiago

Originally posted by chacruz
Thanks Eric!!
And on your Samsung you just leave the controls at factory levels?
Santiago

Not exactly. First I put it in Cinema mode (very important). Then I take Sharpness down to zero. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure it's at factory levels.

Originally posted by EricScott
On my Samsung DLP, I found the picture control adjustments on the S97 were finer (more precise) than those on the display. So I didn't spend much time calibrating the display and set the DVE reference patterns with the S97. Results will vary by display but in general I think the picture controls on the S97 are pretty decent - at least for contrast and brightness.

This is one reason why I got the S97 rather than the Sony. Those picture controls are right on top of the remote. In the Sony they are several layers down, at least according to their instruction book. And, I agree, they are "pretty decent" on the Panasonic.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
No reason to feel sad about the rankings. If you're happy with the player, then --- you're happy!

Paul

To some extent, I agree. But I am still curious about the Sony audio v. the Panasonic. Very few comments about that here. And I am still listening to the S97 on my TV speakers. It will be a while until I get a receiver with separate speakers.

Hi,

I recently purchased the S97 and am quite happy with it. I have run into the macroblocking issue but haven't really run into it since calibrating my set with Avia.

I have a Sony RPLCD 55XS955 for a display. When watching 4:3 material, if I upconvert to 720p or 1080i the resulting picture is stretched to fill the 16:9 screen instead of retaining the 4:3 aspect. I've played around with a number of settings but can't seem to get around it. I've seen another post on here by someone with a different make of television who is having the same problem.

Has anyone else run into this issue and found a solution?

Thanks,
Jason

Jason,

Try these 'S97 settings:

Display->Other Settings->Display Menu-> 4:3 Aspect Ratio: Auto
Display->Other Settings->Display Menu-> Just Fit Zoom: 16:9 Standard

Paul

I know that Sango is working with Panasonic to address the MB issue but do you think that we can put some pressure on them by all calling Panasonic and demanding that they fix the problem since it's clearly a manufacturer's defect? If we all envoke the 1 year warranty and ask them to either fix it or refund us our money then they might feel more pressure to do something right away since this will cost them big $$$ as more units are shipped.

If we all just sit here and wait we might never see a solution. I'm sure Panasonic will be happy to sweep this under the rug until next year when they release their next player.

It's sad that they would release this unit even thought they most likely know about the problem. Perhaps we should force them to recall the units until they can learn to keep their greed in check and release a product without defects.

Has anybody tried playing a burned dual-layer DVD+R disk (DVD+R DL) in Panasonic DVD-S97? Does it play?

I have to replace my old Panasonic DVD-CV51 unit and I am asking because CV51 can play single-layer DVD+R, but not Dual Layer DVD+R.

Thanks!!

Edit: Editing done to correct grammer.

Sango has had great success with Panasonic in the past. Panasonic has been good about firmware updates. I don't think it would hurt for all of us to report the problem but I would love to hear what Sango thinks about
doing this.

OK, here is a truly ignorant newbie question, but I'm sure some of you have been struggling with this and others may be able to help with a quick hint.

I just bought the DVE DVD for my S97 / AE700 player/projector. I can deal with some basic adjustments, like contrast and black level.

But how do I fine-tune the other adjustments that the S97 and the AE700 allow me to? Is there a manual for DVE that says something like: "on track xx, we show you A that you can tune by changing B, and at the end it should look like C"?

BTW, so far I found that the S97 on 720 (and also on 1080) with the AE700 on Cinema 1 hardly need any adjustment, but I am just curious...

Thanks!

Mark

Many of the DVE screens, are, for most consumers, just a reference point and nothing to adjust.

With experience (I don't know of a comprehensive DVE user's guide -- marketing opportunity?) one can evaluate the display and source's performance.

1. Adjust Black Levels - with BTB patterns
2. Adjust White Levels - with resolution and gray steps pattern
3. Adjust Temperature - with gray steps using a 6500K source
4. Adjust Color - with color pattern and filters
5. Adjust Tint - with color pattern and filters
6. Adjust Sharpness - with resoliution pattern

Some displays will allow for precisse adjustment of color decoders and grayscale but usually (not always) these are found in the display's service menu.

Paul

Anyone have remote codes for this unit?

I just got this player on a Hitachi CRT RPTV and the picture quality is great. I have it DVE calibrated. But the macroblocking is KILLING me. Just KILLING me. Especially because the picture is so much better than my old DVD player. I only see it for like 10% of Return of the King but it's still, let's say it again, KILLING me. What do I do??? Denon 1910???

Try the S97 Macroblock Survival Guide tips towards the bottom of the first post of this thread. If that doesn't help, the Denon DVD-1910 is going to be more of the same. Try the Sony DVP-NS975V if macroblock enhance is going to be a problem.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Jason,

Try these 'S97 settings:

Display->Other Settings->Display Menu-> 4:3 Aspect Ratio: Auto
Display->Other Settings->Display Menu-> Just Fit Zoom: 16:9 Standard

Paul

Thanks alot, Paul. You pointed me in the right direction. 4:3 Aspect Raio: Auto and Just Fit Zoon: 4:3 achieved the desired results. Thanks again!

Originally posted by nothru22
I just got this player on a Hitachi CRT RPTV and the picture quality is great. I have it DVE calibrated. But the macroblocking is KILLING me. Just KILLING me. Especially because the picture is so much better than my old DVD player. I only see it for like 10% of Return of the King but it's still, let's say it again, KILLING me. What do I do??? Denon 1910???

Awww man. Good luck with that. Now you have me worried - I just got a Hitachi CRT RPTV and it was delivered today. I haven't had the chance to hook the S97 up to it yet though. That is going to happen this weekend.

Are you using HDMI? Which model do you have?

I have a Hitachi 51uwx20b and I'm using HDMI to DVI. Tonight I am going to put it through it's paces. I don't know how much more the survival guide is going to help me if I have everything DVE calibrated.

Yes. I can play them in my XP-30 and the S97. My entire collection is DVD+R other than 3 recent DVD+R DL discs I just burned. I have never had a problem with DVD+R. Also, all of the discs I burn, I use bitsetting on my burner to mark them as DVD-ROM format. This helps with compatibility too (they will play anywhere). I have several different burners (NEC and LiteOn). DVD+R DL playback may depend on the burner you use.....high quality burns are a must to be able to play these discs.

Originally posted by rransi
Has anybody tried playing a burned dual-layer DVD+R disk (DVD+R DL) in Panasonic DVD-S97? Does it play?

I have to replace my old Panasonic DVD-CV51 unit and I am asking because CV51 can play single-layer DVD+R, but not Dual Layer DVD+R.

Thanks!!

Edit: Editing done to correct grammer.

Thanks LiteUp. Your feedback is highly appreciated. Now, if I could get more details on macroblocking issue :-)

Originally posted by nothru22
I just got this player on a Hitachi CRT RPTV and the picture quality is great. I have it DVE calibrated. But the macroblocking is KILLING me. Just KILLING me. Especially because the picture is so much better than my old DVD player. I only see it for like 10% of Return of the King but it's still, let's say it again, KILLING me. What do I do??? Denon 1910???

Man, you have me running scared as well. I have Hitachi 57S715. Which Hitachi CRT do you have? Are you using HDMI or component ?

The macroblock enhance can vary from display to display. Have a look in the first post of this thread for a picture of macroblocking and some tips on how to avoid it.

Paul

Originally posted by rransi
Man, you have me running scared as well. I have Hitachi 57S715. Which Hitachi CRT do you have? Are you using HDMI or component ?

Looks like he mentioned he was using HDMI to DVI.

Dude, that is the exact same Hitachi set I am using - 57S715. I'll have to see what transpires this weekend.

is it true that macroblocking is very display dependent?

My Hitachi is the 51uwx20b. I want a good DVD player for under $300 so bad. I am desperate. Most likely I am just going to stick with my HK DVD25.

nothru22:

I use the S97 with my Hitachi TWX20B. Looks great great so far except for the MB issues but otherwise the PQ performance surpasses my RP82.

From time to time I interchange between the two on the same set.

Sango

The macroblocking for the 10% of Return of the King is what is driving me away from this player. The funny thing is that before I bought and people were whining about MB, I said to myself "snobs" or "crybabies" but I can even notice macroblocking in broad daylight in a few scenes (take for example scene 31 or 32 on disc 2, where Gandolf and Frodo and Bilbo are riding in that carraige. In the beginning of that scene I can see macroblocking in the stone driveway.)

Originally posted by JSchulte
is it true that macroblocking is very display dependent?

Yes - I think it definitely is. Can't say 100% for sure since I have only connected to the s97 to one display but it seems like many people are describing MB that is making movies unwatchable, whereas I have to really study a scene to see any MB and even then I usually can't find it. I have my S97 connected to a Samsung HLP5063 via HDMI (720p/4:4:4 colorspace).

As we all know Panasonic is aware of the Macroblocking problem. I expect as has been reported that they will come up with new firmware to fix the problem.

Then I will GLADLY repurchase it, as the PQ was much better than I thought it could be.

I got the pan s97 yesterday to compare to my pan rp82. I had the s97 hook-up to the dvi on my tosh 57hdx82 rptv and component for rp 82. I could not see any difference in PQ on my set. My set is ISF calibrated by Robert Busch. Did I do something wrong with the pan s97. Thanks :confused:

Probably not. The RP-82 is an excellent player. If the Toshiba has a good scaler for converting 480p to the display's native resolution then the benefits of the S97 may be minimal or non-existant.

Paul

The difference maybe subtle but you should be able to still see it.

As I've hooked my units to the Hitachi using component, I can see in an instant. My set also upconverts to user selectable 1080i/540p and I have 540p selected.

Does anyone know of a DVD player that had macroblocking with this chip and had it corrected by a firmware released by the manufacturer?

That is, is it a certainty that macroblocking can be corrected through firmware?

Thanks

None that I know of, though I think Denon received some improvements while pursuing the problem.

Don't know if a firmware upgrade can fix it. If macroblock enhance with the FLI-23xx players is going to be a problem, I wouldn't purchase one with the expectation that it is going to be fixed.

Paul

I already have the s97 and am using it with an ED Panasonic plasma. I use component 480P and don't really notice macroblocking. However, from what I've read, plasmas especially Panasonics are suppose to be especially sensitive to it. But then, I've see it stated that it's dependent on the amount of scaling of the image the Panny plasma has to do and I think that maybe the non ED plasma are therefore more sensitive.

From what I can tell, there is a terribly confusing issue.

Is macroblocking more evident over the HDMI connection or component or does it matter.

I suppose, I should stop thinking about it or looking for it because once I notice it once I know I'll never stop seeing it.

I have a Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD that the player is used with and I hardly notice it. I think the issue can vary from DVD to DVD, display to display, and calibration to calibration. I don't think the connection type has any effect. I do think that displays that do not do well with false contouring or experience low level color crush can magnify the problem.

Paul

I also have the 97S and I am using it with the AE700 Panasonic LCD projector. I also hardly notice it. I want to thank Paul for his suggestions on how to deal with the problem on page 1. I agree that it might not be possible to fully correct the Macroblocking problem with firmware but it
might be possible to improve it.

I finally got the S97 w/ XR70 hooked up to the Hitachi 57S715.

Wow! The picture quality is indeed amazing. I have it hooked up with the HDMI cable that came with the player (How good is that cable anyway? Are there "better" HDMI cables out there than this one? What difference would it make?)

I noticed what looked like hints of macroblocking on the Spiderman 2 Superbit DVD during the very beginning of the intro (as the web works its way toward the title "Spiderman 2")

I was somewhat looking for it, but I don't think it took away from the film itself. Once the movie got started, the intro action scene looked phenominal.

I would think a firmware upgrade could correct the situation - perhaps it isn't a hardware flaw, but rather a bad factory setting that causes this to appear sometimes? There are so many questions - what display is being used with the S97? What connection is being used? Could the settings for the DVD player be "off" (in other words - could no adjustments for sharpness actually mean +6 sharpness?) - Unlikely since the the same chip is used in many other players? I wish it would be a simple thing such as this where the chip was just "out of spec" with the DVD players & every DVD player is a simple firmware flash away from being fixed.

Gosh - the DTS intro pumping through that digital amp in the XR70 alongside the S97 HDMI pushing the Superbit Spiderman 2 to a 57" display is pure sweetness though. :D

CkRtech,

Glad you're enjoying the player. I've only used the HDMI cable that came with the 'S97 and I see no reason to replace it -- it's long enough and it works.

The macroblock issue has been discussed quite a bit. If the solution was simple, I would think there would be quick upgrade. I don't know if its a truly difficult firmware solution, an unsolvable hardware problem, or a matter of getting the proper focus at Genesis Microchip. Time will tell.

rwestley,

You're very welcome.

The suggestions posted in the "Survival Guide" in the first page of the thread are designed to minimize the occurances because, in my experience, a display can be adjusted to a state that can amplify the macroblock enhancement problem. The suggestions may not work for everyone but they do seem to work for me and others have reported some success as well.

Paul

Ok, w/o having to go through this and the denon monster threads -- b/c the Denon 2910, 3910, and this panny s97 use 23xx chips, macroblocking is present. From what I've read though the 3910 can hide it somewhat. Well it should for a $1K+ player. Has anyone done a shootout b/w the s97 and 2910? I'm eagerly waiting the next Secrets benchmark which I'm sure will include the Sony, the s97, 2910 and others...

Cost aside, I'd like to know if anyone can say that the PQ (and mb issue) are better handled on the 2910 vs the s97. Now throw in costs and is the 2910 worth xtra money than the s97? Guess meaning in terms of PQ, handling of MB, and other concerns b/w the players.

thanks!

I did a test tonight with the wife and she like the rp82 better than s97. I guess i'm taking the s97 back and wait for HD DVD player.:)

Originally posted by EricScott
Yes - I think it definitely is. Can't say 100% for sure since I have only connected to the s97 to one display but it seems like many people are describing MB that is making movies unwatchable, whereas I have to really study a scene to see any MB and even then I usually can't find it. I have my S97 connected to a Samsung HLP5063 via HDMI (720p/4:4:4 colorspace).
These new digital video type of distortions took several years to understand, even for the experts, because several were occurring at the same time.

1) DLPs mask macroblocking because their picture quality is inherently noisy. One will not see this at the store, because their quality, though finally HD, is purposely made noisy. So while every display is noisy there, the suituation can change rapidly in the home environment, using common top quality 1080i HDTV signals. For example Sony LCDs have very little if any noise. PQ is is fantastic (except for black level).

2) MPEG encoders and low bit rates introduce noise and motion artifacts.
Some films such as the Star Wars film, shot all digital using early HD technology suffer from considerable noise and distortion.

3) Power conditioning helps, as RFI can degrade a picture.

The bottom line is that these issues have finally been sorted and isolated. Simple rule:
Players and displays which use on 8 bits for their DSP should be avoided.

Almost all players do NOT suffer from this, except for "the latest" technology. It is to much amazement that certain quarters continue to propagate such visually flawed products, that even the novice can see!

Give credit where it is due: Samsung for once, made the right decision and removed their macroblocking 941 before it was even released.

Originally posted by reincarnate

Give credit where it is due: Samsung for once, made the right decision and removed their macroblocking 941 before it was even released.

Not sure I understand this. Are you saying the 941 does not exhibit macroblocking?

I have been trolling this tread since the onset, and for the past year have been waiting for a reasonably priced upconverting player to use with a DWIN TV3+ display. This past week I took the plunge. And am happy with it. Black levels are well beyond acceptable. Over the weekend the s97 was worked out pretty well with scenes from numerous movies where one would see issues pretty regularly with less robust players. This unit passed those tests quite well. As far as MB goes, you have to really strain your eyes to notice it. If you are sitting in your favorite chair "enjoying" a movie, as opposed to critically assessing the player, I doubt one would notice MB too much. I have a high end projector on a 110" screen and it looks pretty flippin good. I am amazed that some are complaining of MB that they can see on 60" and smaller displays. This player looks pretty good to me. No complaints here.
And remember what we paid for it to keep things in perspective. This is a mid range $ player, with a high end PQ.
I am using the hdmi cable that came with the unit and a hdmi-dvi converter plug and it works just fine. I did borrow a hdmi-dvi monster cable from a neighbor yesterday to see if a difference could be had. None that I could distinguish which results in me having a benjamin franklin or so in my pocket burning a hole to buy some new dvd's with.

Stepping off the pulpit.

The Perfect Vision Magazine Winter Edition #58 had an article with some details on how to use DVE.


Originally posted by markhout
But how do I fine-tune the other adjustments that the S97 and the AE700 allow me to? Is there a manual for DVE that says something like: "on track xx, we show you A that you can tune by changing B, and at the end it should look like C"?
Mark

Will one of these upconverting players make a difference with a Panny ED display? If I use the HDMI on the S97 is it going to look better then what I am getting with my Denon 1600 hooked up via component?

Wipeout, that's going to be hard to say. You have an excellent player already. Theoretically it would improve slightly since you would lose a digital to analog back to digital conversion, but it's difficult to estimate what difference that would really make in the real world. I too have an Panny ED and at my viewing distance (10-12 feet) I saw no difference between the ED and HD.

I am currently using a component connection from the 97S, but will be using the HDMI to DVI soon, primarily to simplify connections as I also have the panny XR 70 receiver.

I'd certainly wait for the Secrets review that is due out any time now.

John

Originally posted by Starc
The Perfect Vision Magazine Winter Edition #58 had an article with some details on how to use DVE.

Any link to this? Can't seem to find it online. Is it only a print magazine?

google is your friend:

PerfectVision (http://www.theperfectvision.com/)

Well, I took the plunge and ordered one. I was hesitant at first because the only online stores that have them won't let you return it one you take it out of the box. The photo store that I've been doing business with for nearly two years carries them now and I can return it within 7 days if I don't like it; 7 days is better than 0 days. So when I get it, I'll put it through its paces this weekend and see if it's a keeper. If at least the 480p looks better than the Panasonic s47 I own, then it stays, if no better then it goes back.

By the way Paul, is the s47 I have as bad as the s27 you tested?

I've read through a little of this thread (30-40 pages or so), and a lot of people are claiming that the MBing isn't that big ... for me it's huge. I am using a Hitatchi 57f510, with the HDMI input. I have calibrated my TV with Digital Video Essentials, and the MBing is out of control. In the Fellowship of the Ring's (EE) opening credits the MBing is so bad it covers almost half the screen at times. Also there is a pink noise tinge whenever there is any video noise ... both are quite frustrating. Is it possible it's due to the fact that I have a CRT RPTV that's causing my MBing to be on a much larger scale then many/most of the people I've read here??? Is it possible that the player itself is bad??? The only thing I can do is turn the brightness down 5-10 points ... which is a drastic change. Any thoughts????

I've got a sony KP51WS520 CRT RPTV. I hope I don't have the same problems.

When a firmware upgrade is released, will instructions be posted here on where to get it and how to install it?

Joey,

I don't have neither have I used a Panasonic DVD-S27. The player did receive very low marks in the "Secrets of Home Theater" DVD player Benchmark review.

Shmoooooo,

The "Lord of the Rings" series is often cited for easy viewing of macroblocking. The visibility of the marcroblock enhance can vary from display to display, calibration to calibration, DVD to DVD. For example, I saw the macroblock enhance to a much greater degree on a Sharp LC-26GD6U I had briefly. Calibrating, the display, turning off picture "enhancements", and perhaps setting the DVD-S97 contrast control to -1 is about the best one can do. As has been seen introducing some black crush can help minimize the effect -- but at a penalty.

Paul

JoeyW,

I would not expect a firmware update. If one comes, great, and the information will be posted but I am not holding my breath.

I've contacted Genesis Microchip (Faroudja) and Panasonic each three times.

Paul

Schmoooo my only thought is that the player is going back before the 30 days are up. I am in the same boat.

Everyone hopes they don't have these problems. If I look, I can pretty see MB during most scenes in anything, but I have to REALLY look.

But now that it bothers me, I do.

Wonderful, just hooked it up over component and it looks great. Haven't tested it with Return of the King yet but this might be the solution to my problem. Bedtime.

Hi all. This is my first post. I've been reading you guy for about 6 months, and because of your advices, i bought a Screenplay 4805 projector and as Panny S97.

I love the Projector and I've just received, in fact, yesterday, the Panny. But I still have doubts.

I have a NAD T741 A/V Receiver. It has Crystal A/D converters rated at 96kHz/24 bit. I do like a lot the sound of the NAD. What I don't know is, if the rated converters in the S97 are of a higher bitrate (i don't know about quality), do you guys think it's better to let the S97 do the Converting and bypass the crystals? If its better to let the NAD do the converting, in the Audio Options Menu, there's the maximum bitrate transmitted, should I set this to 96Khz?

Now about PQ, Is it safe to just use a HDMI/DVI-D converter and use the included HDMI cable? If so, which brand of Converter? And I don't own a Screen yet, Should I buy a 0.8 gain? Gray? Although I try to keep lights out, my furniture is all white as well as my walls...

I know this is a bit lengthy post, but i really trust you guys in advices, in fact, i stopped asking at the stores, or buying magazines, you guys rocks!

Just wanted to report back to the group that my Hong Kong version (region 2) of House of The Flying Daggers works like a charm on my Region 1 S97 player. Not sure why, but it's great. I did see the blown-out highlights that some reviews referred to - it's not a 'reference' DVD.

Mark

eduserrano:

I also have a NAD receiver, I set the s97 to 96khz.
I have also done some back and forth comparisons of using the enclosed hdmi cable with a hdmi-dvi converter comparing that to an overly expensive monster cable that did not use the converter but was a straight hdmi to dvi cable. I could not tell a difference in PQ. I bought a monster hdmi to dvi converter, not because its better, but because it was convienent and I could have it now.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow


I'll probably eat my words, but *just for fun*, my "Secrets" prediction: low-mid 70's for the Sony, mid 80's for the Panasonic.



Paul, your prediction was right on !! (atleast for the HDMI )

Secrets DVD player shootout (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-...ch&articles=121)

thx a lot for ur wonderful effort !!!

Originally posted by JSchulte
Wipeout, that's going to be hard to say. You have an excellent player already. Theoretically it would improve slightly since you would lose a digital to analog back to digital conversion, but it's difficult to estimate what difference that would really make in the real world. I too have an Panny ED and at my viewing distance (10-12 feet) I saw no difference between the ED and HD.

I am currently using a component connection from the 97S, but will be using the HDMI to DVI soon, primarily to simplify connections as I also have the panny XR 70 receiver.

I'd certainly wait for the Secrets review that is due out any time now.

John

So a player that upconverts to 1080i will not have a dramatic effect on an ED plasma? On an HD plasma I imagine this would look closer to hi-def?

Originally posted by markhout
Just wanted to report back to the group that my Hong Kong version (region 2) of House of The Flying Daggers works like a charm on my Region 1 S97 player. Not sure why, but it's great. I did see the blown-out highlights that some reviews referred to - it's not a 'reference' DVD.

Mark
Does this require a firmware flash, or was it region-free out of the box?

is there any way to get it to display the track number along w/ the time ? It seems to be either one or the other and it's not *that* big of a deal w/ DVDs, is a PITA w/ CDs.

Anyone ?

Originally posted by Rich Malloy
Does this require a firmware flash, or was it region-free out of the box?

Well, the box and manual say the player is Region 1, and I did not change firmware or hack anything. So, this dvd was played on the player out of the box.

And the DVD looked like it was an original one (mentioned region 2 on the dvd box), but you obviously never know.

Mark

Feels nice to read the new shootout. Panny beats Sony and matches the Denon 2910 (at less than half the price)! :D

I own the Panasonic 97S and do hope as Secrets suggests that Panasonic
comes up with a firmware update to lessen Macroblocking. I don't think they will be able to totally fix it because of the problem with the chip.

The picture is great on most sources and with Paul's help most of us can
nearly eliminate the Macroblocking problem.

I was surprised with the great review of the Toshiba dual player. It
is available everyone. I may pick one up to compare it. I would hope Paul
would do the same.

I know. Toshiba player kicks *** Since I am well beyond the return for this player, I am going to settle on this player. Would love to hear about ur comments regarding the Toshiba player though.

And yes, I too wish Panny sends a new firmware to address some of the issues raised with this player...I mentioned bunch of those in the thread started by Sango.

The comments are interesting. The tone of the s97 review is somewhat negative while the 975 review is much more upbeat yet the s97 edges it out in overall scores - I guess it's all about expectations and performance of past players.

Glad to see the s97 did well though and I'm really glad I didn't wait around for the 941.

Is there an explanation somewhere on the Secrets site of what the various tests are - what are 3:2 and 2:2 Cadence? Most of the background information on the Secrets site I find to be extremely esoteric and difficult to get through - plus it seems a little dated.