Eric: You're right. I guess the tone was negative for Panny since it was being compared with RP82& XP50. Expectations were pretty high.

Still though, the difference between a 92 and 86 is an additional box -- not that much.

Here's comparing the sub-$300 Genesis Panasonic players.

Paul

Originally posted by mallu2u
Eric: You're right. I guess the tone was negative for Panny since it was being compared with RP92& XP50. Expectations were pretty high.

The RP92 must be some kind of new unit because I never heard of it lol!!

Must be the RP91!

I think he meant the RP-82. ;)

Paul

I got a 97S yesterday and hooked it up to my Samsung HLP4674W via HDMI.

The picture was absolutely awful. My 5 year old Sony interlaced player looked much much sharper. Macroblocking was everywhere. Reds were annoying to watch. Detail was very poor and try as I might, I could not seem to get any sort of good calibration adjustments with DVE. I then tried THX setup on a movie and couldn't seem to improve things either. Today, I had a friend come look at it who is much less critical that I am and he picked up on all the flaws immediately without me describing the inherent flaws in this player. What a relief to go back to cable and catch a few HD TV shows.

For kicks, I plugged it into component and ran 480P. MUCH BETTER. Most of the problems were gone. Reds still were not quite perfect, and I think I could improve things with a little more calibration, but my old player may have been a little sharper still. Gradients in blue still seemed to have some harsh boundaries. The killer in my old Sony player is the audio sync problem with interlaced material on a Samsung DLP-the best it has in S-video. But for me this was very disappointing to see the promise of HDMI falll so short. So much for new technology.

I am contemplating looking for a much less expensive progressive scan player since the HDMI abilities are lost on my situation.

Originally posted by Sango
The RP92 must be some kind of new unit because I never heard of it lol!!

Must be the RP91!

Have fun! Im on to u now Sango! Corrected the thread. By mistake I pressed the wrong key. 9 instead of 8!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah it was confusing, then Paul figured it was an 82 lol!! I thought it was a 92 because of the numbers - was just speed reading !

Originally posted by temtexdent
I got a 97S yesterday and hooked it up to my Samsung HLP4674W via HDMI.

The picture was absolutely awful. My 5 year old Sony interlaced player looked much much sharper. Macroblocking was everywhere. Reds were annoying to watch. Detail was very poor and try as I might, I could not seem to get any sort of good calibration adjustments with DVE. I then tried THX setup on a movie and couldn't seem to improve things either. Today, I had a friend come look at it who is much less critical that I am and he picked up on all the flaws immediately without me describing the inherent flaws in this player. What a relief to go back to cable and catch a few HD TV shows.

For kicks, I plugged it into component and ran 480P. MUCH BETTER. Most of the problems were gone. Reds still were not quite perfect, and I think I could improve things with a little more calibration, but my old player may have been a little sharper still. Gradients in blue still seemed to have some harsh boundaries. The killer in my old Sony player is the audio sync problem with interlaced material on a Samsung DLP-the best it has in S-video. But for me this was very disappointing to see the promise of HDMI falll so short. So much for new technology.

I am contemplating looking for a much less expensive progressive scan player since the HDMI abilities are lost on my situation.

Its not HDMI, its the dvd player.

Just like blaming component when your picture from a walmart player looks like junk.

Make sure you point the finger at the people who made the player not the technology in it.

Originally posted by Dazog
Its not HDMI, its the dvd player.

Just like blaming component when your picture from a walmart player looks like junk.

Make sure you point the finger at the people who made the player not the technology in it.

Agreed. I do not think I worded that well when I wrote it last night. I have read the Secrets review and understand where the problem lies. On HDMI implementation, it does seem to me that its implementation has been spotty in quality here at first. I know theoretically it should look better, but according to other threads, its not just the Panny player that seems to look better over component - it seems to be hit and miss. Perhaps the scaler is better in my TV and that sort of situation is affecting others as well. What I have learned from the Secrets reviews is that just about no-one is implementing new technology correctly...no matter what you spend. Its amazing.

Reading the Secrets write-up of the S97 I was a little surprised Kris made mention of 4:2:0 banding (ICP) being severe with this unit, so severe that he mentions that the Faroujda chip, which under normal circumstances filters ICP, could not deal with it fully.

I was surprised primarily because I have not witnessed any of this with this unit and generally feel I am rather sensitive to this issue. I was completely unaware of what ICP was until I bought a 59avi and watched a few of my video content DVD's, the problem was so bothersome I returned the unit. Therefore when auditioning the Panny I paid particular attention to ICP which thankfully never seemed to be an issue with this player.

I PM'd Kris just to clarify and he indicated I take a look at the DVE menus before any selection is made and the banding should be obvious. Well I performed many tests and can't see it. Even when using an unfiltered 480i signal through the Iscan with it's filter turned off ICP is remarkably less severe than what I experienced with the Pioneer. In each case when a Faroudja de-interlacer was in the chain (DVD players or the X1's) ICP is eliminated.

Additionally when viewing Pauls 480i ICP photo submitted in his original post I do not see what I could consider anything close to significant evidence of ICP. After my experience with the Pioneer it was this photo which encouraged me to buy the S97 to begin with (along with an IScan).

Has anyone else experienced severe ICP issues with this unit similar to what Kris describes?

Here's a photo of ICP in action (59avi) for reference.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4486658&fullpage=1

For anyone also reading the thread on the new Secrets Benchmark, sorry for the duplicate post.

Paul,

Does this player really pass BTB? Based on the Sony results of needing to elevate black levels to "see" BTB, isn't the necessary brightness setting of +1 the same? Does this adjustment compress the overall range?

Thanks.

Santino

When using an HDMI player to DVI display hookup, the player can only output RGB as the color space. The player converts the DVD's YCbCr to RGB. RGB DVI inputs on displays expect to see a Standard Definition RGB signal, not High Definition, regardless of resolution.

The Sony 975 improperly uses a high definition (HD) Rec. 709 YCbCr to RGB converter when going HDMI to DVI, resulting in incorrect colors.

The correct YCbCr to RGB converter to use for going HDMI to DVI is the Standard Definition (SD) Rec. 601.

Does anyone know if the S97 converts YCbCr to RGB for use over DVI in Standard Definition (Rec.601) or High Defintion (rec. 709)?

This involves the color space issue and what your display expects to get as a signal, and what it actually gets. If the Pan S97 does this correctly, together with it being one of the few HDMI players that does not remap to PC RGB over DVI, and passing blacker than black, it may be the only HDMI player that can be correctly used with DVI input display devices. Thanks.

I just have to ask this......

What is panasonics take on all these issues with this player?

Are they working on a solution(s), and what is taking them so long....

Heck.. two-four year old panasonic players are getting better support!!

Originally posted by littlesaint
For anyone also reading the thread on the new Secrets Benchmark, sorry for the duplicate post.

Paul,

Does this player really pass BTB? Based on the Sony results of needing to elevate black levels to "see" BTB, isn't the necessary brightness setting of +1 the same? Does this adjustment compress the overall range?

Thanks.

Santino

Obviously I'm not Paul but I'll give an answer anyway. On my system using the DVE pluge pattern this player does pass BTB..sort of. Let me explain, on previous players I've used which also pass BTB the darkest pluge bar is very distinct when the displays brightness is turned up, on the S97 however with the players brightness set to 0 the darkest pluge bar is visible but very faint (not near as black as it should be) and remains this way regardless of how high you bump up the displays brightness. Increasing the players brightness to +1 or more does make the BTB bar blacker therefore more visible and in line what I would expect.

I should add that the BTB bar is visible, albeit faint, on all presets and similarly to what Paul has noted previously the Cinema 1 preset does show a more distinct relatively blacker bar.

I can't really answer your question but I presume the faint BTB bar does not technically meet the requirements for blacker than black. After reading Bob Pariseau's great post on the matter I also now have some doubt whether bumping the brightness to +1 to increase the blackness of the BTB bar is technically considered passing BTB either.

How's that for a definitive reply?

Thanks Hugh.

I have the Avia disc, so I couldn't check if BTB was really there. Your description makes perfect sense though. I should have more faith in Paul's analysis. I actually read this entire thread today and now my brain hurts. For those with JVC HD-ILA RPTVs, I plan on calibrating mine with the s97 over the weekend and reporting the results/settings here.

LittleSaint

Any one else feel free to resond as well. I'm trying to get a hold of omegastar and they don't have PM enabled. You posted you have the S97S and the BenQ PE8700+. That is the combination I am working with as well. On the S97S, if you go to Display Menu, HDMI status, what video mode does it say is active when you think you are in 720p? The projector says it is in 1280x720@60Hz. The HDMI Status on the DVD player states it is in 576p. When I plug the DVD player into my Sony XBR, it states the proper resolution under HDMI status. I do notice that the projector seems to reject a couple of connection attempts before syncing. I've tried the short cable that came with the DVD player, and my super long cable and both do the same thing.

Any one else see this kind of strangeness. searching for HDMI status didn't give any results.

If anyone is interested the super long cable is the UltraLink HDMI Pro 15 Meter. And I do see some "sparkles" or dropped pixels. None with the short cable that came with the S97S. Dissapointment is setting in :(

My only HDMI connection (to a Panasonic TC-22LH1) reports correctly. Am using the cable that comes with the player.

Paul

I'm thinking getting a S97. But I have couple questions, if someone would be nice to answer these:

1. Where is the best place to get the player?
2. I just order a AE700 with HCMW screen, would I see any sparkles if I use 30 ft or 10 meter hdmi cable?

3. I also own a V880 - what about if I use hdmi to DVI cable, is there an issue? like black level? I did use the search function, but I got different opinion about this.

Thanks

Baja

We cannot directly answer Q1 due to the forum regulations. The admin did step in to remind us a while back in this thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4739107#post4739107).

Sango

BajaFishin, Check your messages.

Originally posted by Hugh2
Obviously I'm not Paul but I'll give an answer anyway. On my system using the DVE pluge pattern this player does pass BTB..sort of. Let me explain, on previous players I've used which also pass BTB the darkest pluge bar is very distinct when the displays brightness is turned up, on the S97 however with the players brightness set to 0 the darkest pluge bar is visible but very faint (not near as black as it should be) and remains this way regardless of how high you bump up the displays brightness. Increasing the players brightness to +1 or more does make the BTB bar blacker therefore more visible and in line what I would expect.

I should add that the BTB bar is visible, albeit faint, on all presets and similarly to what Paul has noted previously the Cinema 1 preset does show a more distinct relatively blacker bar.

I can't really answer your question but I presume the faint BTB bar does not technically meet the requirements for blacker than black. After reading Bob Pariseau's great post on the matter I also now have some doubt whether bumping the brightness to +1 to increase the blackness of the BTB bar is technically considered passing BTB either.

How's that for a definitive reply?

The secrets review does state that this player passes blacker than black. But it does not state whether the brightness had to be set to +1 or if it had to be used in cinema mode. I too would like to know if it really does pass blacker than black or if setting the brightness to +1 is cheating and compresses things at the other end.

thanks,

John

I received the Panasonic DVD-S97 the other day and after putting it through its paces am a bit suprised by the results of the Secrets Shootout.

They failed it on the "3-2 Cadence Video Flags" test - It passed on my player - both on the Microsoft DVD Test Annex and on the Faroudja 3-2 film recognition test signals on the Kenwood DVD, which has no film flags. On my homemade DVD's of LaserDisc's, it recognizes the 3-2 pattern quickly.

They also didn't mention that in the "Video" de-interlacing mode, the Faroudja DCDi is turned OFF. The Faroudja Flag Waving test sequence illustrates it clearly - in the "Video" mode, there are jaggies galore, but in "Auto 1" or "Auto 2", it smooth and clear.

The Benchmark shootout also stated that the player had the 4:2:0 chroma problem, but I can't see it at all - on any material I've used, including the Microsoft DVD Test Annex chroma bug test, the chroma is clean and smooth. It looks, to ME, that Panasonic has implemented the Faroudja chroma filters differently - the S97 looks to have very good chroma resolution. (oh, how I wish there were a disc with a vertical chroma test)

I'm wondering if perhaps the guys at Secrets got a defective DVD-S97? Mine works and looks great - compared to my Zenith DVB-318, the Panasonic has more high frequency detail - it looks like the Zenith has too much video noise reduction. BTW, the manufacture date of my S97 is September 2004.

Happy Holidays!

Ty C.

Hi,
I have been searching the forum and cannot seem to find the answer to this problem:

I have the S-97 hooked up to a JVC D-Ila. For the most part, I am having good results, not stunning, but definitely better than my PS2.

For some reason, my player is defaulting to RGB colorspace. I have the player on Auto mode in terms of picture, 720p as my output. I originally had the option to choose which colorspace to use but it is now gone. Only RGB is selected and I cannot change it.

Sorry if this is an easy question, the manual gives me no options or help.

Thanks!

Originally posted by BajaFishin
2. I just order a AE700 with HCMW screen, would I see any sparkles if I use 30 ft or 10 meter hdmi cable?

According to the current issue of "The Perfect Vision" a HDMI cable is good for a lot more than 10 meters.

3. I also own a V880 - what about if I use hdmi to DVI cable, is there an issue? like black level? I did use the search function, but I got different opinion about this.

If you mean a HDMI cable with a DVI connector on one end I don't think you would have a problem. All you need is for all the ones and zeros to arrive at the other end intact. "Sparkles" seem to be the result of some of the ones and zeros not making it to their appointed destination.

You know, I picked up the Justice League: Starcrossed DVD and popped it in last night - It was really weird....I know that we have been talking about Macroblocking on this player, but this seems like something more. An extension if you will.

As a scene would fade out (the FBI warning for instance), it would remain on the screen as an after image AND remain there as the next image would fade in. If the next image didn't take up the whole screen (say...letters on a black background), you could still see the previous image behind it and to the sides. Now sometimes on a fade out of a track like an FBI warning, the fade out technically isn't complete and the image remains on the screen. However if it is still on the screen as the next track begins, then something is really wrong.

So is macroblocking supposed to be a problem with decoding on the fly, afterimage issues, or both? I thought perhaps that the chip was trying to go beyond the color range (blacker than black, etc), but this seems like it would be a whole other issue.

Originally posted by CkRtech
.

As a scene would fade out (the FBI warning for instance), it would remain on the screen as an after image AND remain there as the next image would fade in. If the next image didn't take up the whole screen (say...letters on a black background), you could still see the previous image behind it and to the sides. Now sometimes on a fade out of a track like an FBI warning, the fade out technically isn't complete and the image remains on the screen. However if it is still on the screen as the next track begins, then something is really wrong.



CkRtech, I have noticed the exact same issue. I thought this was a residual effect from MB, if it's not this is something worth of discussion.

Originally posted by Disclord
I received the Panasonic DVD-S97 the other day and after putting it through its paces am a bit suprised by the results of the Secrets Shootout.

They failed it on the "3-2 Cadence Video Flags" test - It passed on my player - both on the Microsoft DVD Test Annex and on the Faroudja 3-2 film recognition test signals on the Kenwood DVD, which has no film flags. On my homemade DVD's of LaserDisc's, it recognizes the 3-2 pattern quickly.

They also didn't mention that in the "Video" de-interlacing mode, the Faroudja DCDi is turned OFF. The Faroudja Flag Waving test sequence illustrates it clearly - in the "Video" mode, there are jaggies galore, but in "Auto 1" or "Auto 2", it smooth and clear.

The Benchmark shootout also stated that the player had the 4:2:0 chroma problem, but I can't see it at all - on any material I've used, including the Microsoft DVD Test Annex chroma bug test, the chroma is clean and smooth. It looks, to ME, that Panasonic has implemented the Faroudja chroma filters differently - the S97 looks to have very good chroma resolution. (oh, how I wish there were a disc with a vertical chroma test)

I'm wondering if perhaps the guys at Secrets got a defective DVD-S97? Mine works and looks great - compared to my Zenith DVB-318, the Panasonic has more high frequency detail - it looks like the Zenith has too much video noise reduction. BTW, the manufacture date of my S97 is September 2004.

Happy Holidays!

Ty C.

The same question was raised with me as well, the player they tested doesn't appear to behave similar to the one I purchased. As I noted several posts ago I also don't perceive the 4:2:0 chroma (ICP) issue. IMSubjectiveO, it actually performs better than other well regarded players and certainly no worse on both the DVE patterns and real world viewing. If there is some evidence of ICP that I'm missing I doubt if anyone would label it as severe.

Another area which caught my eye was Y/C delay was reported to be off by about 1/2 pixel. My player appears to be close to dead on in this regard. My reference for 1/2 pixel delay is the 59avi which I had in my system and it was apparent when attempting to adjust this delay that it was indeed out by about 1/2 pixel. For the S97 the DVE bars are split mirror images of each other and attempting to adjust one notch either way (using Isan) shows identical but oppposite errors each way which indicates to me the Y/C delay for my player is just about perfect.

My player was manufactured September 2004 as well.

Originally posted by JSchulte
The secrets review does state that this player passes blacker than black. But it does not state whether the brightness had to be set to +1 or if it had to be used in cinema mode. I too would like to know if it really does pass blacker than black or if setting the brightness to +1 is cheating and compresses things at the other end.

thanks,

John

I've been running my player with black level set to darker and it's this setting which give me the quasi BTB bar as noted above. Tonight I switched the black level to lighter and guess what, the BTB bar darkened to where it should be without need of bumping up the brightness to +1. It would appear that using 0 IRE clips much of the below black information.

I've read many many posts by very experienced industry personnel that indicate calibrating a display to either 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE will ultimately end up looking identical PQ and this correlates to my own experience as well. But I do have two questions, 1/ is changing to the lighter setting similar to bumping up the brightness level in this situation? 2/ going from 0 IRE-100 IRE to 7.5IRE-100 IRE is compressing the voltage signal by 7.5%, is the data therefore compressed by the same amount?

Well I just installed the Panny 97s on a Sony 60 inch LCD Display "KDF-60WF655" using the supplied HD cable with the panny. It worked perfectly with no issues. The upscale resolution looks very good and no macro-crap issues with the movies so far.

I am very happy with this unit matched with this monitor. Also having the cable ship with the unit is a big plus as well (saves about $50)

Ran the basic setup and configured for my set. Picture is almost as good as real HD material. From what I am reading the matchup to some monitors is resulting in different PQ. I must say that with this matchup the panny has shown to have very good PQ with very little effort, and easy HDMI 1080i connection with supplied cable from panny.

Welcome to the forum, thanks for the report, and congrats on the Christmas eve install!

Paul

Originally posted by BajaFishin
I'm thinking getting a S97. But I have couple questions, if someone would be nice to answer these:

1. Where is the best place to get the player?
2. I just order a AE700 with HCMW screen, would I see any sparkles if I use 30 ft or 10 meter hdmi cable?

3. I also own a V880 - what about if I use hdmi to DVI cable, is there an issue? like black level? I did use the search function, but I got different opinion about this.

Thanks

Baja

Baja: No black crush if HDMI RGB set to Standard. Sent u a PM as well.

mallu2u,

I'm using the Panasonic S97S with a Sanyo PLV-Z2 LCD front projector with DVI input, no HDMI. Is the correct setting for the HDMI RGB range Standard and not Enhanced? I found that if I set it to Standard, from Avia, I have to set the Brightness control on my projector way down. If I set it to Enhanced, Brightness is about at mid point. However, Enhanced makes it look a little darker, perhaps this is the black crush that everyone is talking about.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
Does anyone know if the S97 converts YCbCr to RGB for use over DVI in Standard Definition (Rec.601) or High Defintion (rec. 709)?


Since no one has responded to this so far, I wondered if anybody out there knows?

Regards

Ken L

KenL-

No. But here's how to find out. Because the YCbCr to DVI conversion takes place in the player the DVI (RGB) input of the projecor simply passes through what it gets w/no processing.

If the Pan S97 uses HD REC.709 like the Sony 975, your colors will be way off, especially green which will be severly (-20% on AVIA) depressed. Simply looking at color bars should show the colors are way off without having to resort to test discs. If the S97 uses SD REC. 601, the colors will be fine.

Bob

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
KenL-

No. But here's how to find out.........your colors will be way off.......... the colors will be fine...

I don't own one. That's why I was asking - I am hopeful that I am coming to the end of my search for an upconverting DVD player_grin_

Anybody out there that has one and would like to comment?

Regards

Ken L

For me, the colors are not off (no green depression) -- regardless of the connection type. Via 1080i with HDMI->HDMI and HDMI->DVI the DVE and Avia color patterns look good -- no green depression. Accurate color with both connection types was reported in the first post of this thread.

The viewed results in any individual case will depend on how well the display's color decoders are calibrated.

Paul

Originally posted by JSchulte
The secrets review does state that this player passes blacker than black. But it does not state whether the brightness had to be set to +1 or if it had to be used in cinema mode. I too would like to know if it really does pass blacker than black or if setting the brightness to +1 is cheating and compresses things at the other end.

thanks,

John

Kris Deering answered my question in another thread. When he did the secrets test on this player, he had read Paul's ininital postings on the S97 and he did find that it passed blacker than black by setting the brightness to +1. So that is the setting that was used in the secrets testing.

Thanks for your response Paul.


Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Accurate color with both connection types was reported in the first post of this thread.


There's a lot to learn on this, and I've been reading so many threads they kind of blur in my mind _grin_

Thank you very much for your efforts in this and The Sony NS975 thread. They're a particularly big help to me at this point in time.

Best regards

Ken L

Well, I have noticed that 9 out of 10 movies that I have watched have been good. I,Robot looks stellar on the panny! Superbits too! Almost HD quality!

BUT, I recently tried to watch 24 season 3 and it is almost unwatchable. It is very sad! Also, I tried to watch Collateral and it has some serious mb problems too.

I love this player on most movies, but every once in a while, a movie/show looks terrible.

Any advice? Ive tried reducing by using the DNR and brightness, but it still is present. It doesn't look much better on component.

Im close to giving up on HDMI/DVI and sticking with a great component player and letting my tv upscale it to 720p. Ive tried the Denon 1910 and Sammy 931 also.

Just seems like there is not a good choice for an upscaling player yet.

Well, after playing around with the settings via component and HDMI, I have decided to go with 480p via component until they have fixed the macroblocking issue.

Since my tv (HLP6163) upconverts the image to 720p, I do not see a noticable difference between the 2 inputs (other than no mb on component).

Black levels look good on both and the picture looks sharp. I just got tired of the macroblocking!

I really love the dvd player (for all the features and pq on most dvds). Hopefully, a firmware update will come out and fix the mb issue.

Folks,

I got this player and I am having the following problem:

The HDMI video looks very bad. Lots of pixelation.

The cable is properly connected. Component video looks ok.

The HDMI cable is going directly to the TV 1HDMI input. I have a sony rear projection tv (HDTV)

I tried 480, 720, 1080, without any good results. Any ideas what I could try?

Thanks for the help

What does the problem look like in this case? Is it with all DVDs regardless of scene across the entire picture? Or is it with just certain DVDs in specific scenes?

Is the HDMI cable the supplied cable with the 'S97?

Paul

Paul,

its everywhere across the entire screen and all colors in all scenes. In other words, picture can't be watched at all like this.

I tried 3 DVDs (including the new Shrek 2) and all show the same problem. Picture is ok on Component.

The HDMI cable is the one included with the player.

Originally posted by bigcat

I got this player and I am having the following problem:The HDMI video looks very bad. Lots of pixelation.


Hope u r using the cinema mode for the HDMI input of the TV !! What is the sharpness setting on the TV and the DVD player?

How about DVDs without computer animation?

It sounds like something (display, cable, player) is having a problem and it seems to be something more than the "macroblock enhance" issue. Do you have a cable box with DVI and a DVI->HDMI converter cable to try? This may verify whether or not the display's HDMI is having an issue.

Try exchanging the player or taking it to the store (if applicable) to check out the player on other displays.

Paul

Originally posted by iamtarun
Hope u r using the cinema mode for the HDMI input of the TV !! What is the sharpness setting on the TV and the DVD player?

iamtarun, not sure what you mean by cinema on TV. TV has vivid, standard, movie, and pro. All those show same problem.

I also tried different settings on the player (cinema1, cinema2, etc.) no help.

Paul,

DVDs without computer animation have the same problem.

I dont have any DVI equipment to try. Maybe what I'll do is run to best buy and grab one of those toshiba's HDMIs they have to try them on my TV, only to see where the problem is. I bought the panny online from Vanns so can't exchange it promptly.

Thanks

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
How about DVDs without computer animation?

It sounds like something (display, cable, player) is having a problem and it seems to be something more than the "macroblock enhance" issue. Do you have a cable box with DVI and a DVI->HDMI converter cable to try? This may verify whether or not the display's HDMI is having an issue.

Try exchanging the player or taking it to the store (if applicable) to check out the player on other displays.

Paul

OK. Sounds good. I hope the problem can be narrowed down/worked out. Good luck!

Paul

Bigcat,

Are your brightness and contrast setting on our set jacked way up?

I had very bad picture quality on my S97 untill I took the input off of vivid.

Originally posted by Rich4av
I tried the Avia DVD tonight in both 720p and 1080i modes with my HT1000 projector and had no menu anomalies.

I was also able to play PAL DVDs as long as they are region-free.

Joe - the HT1000 is 1024x768 in native mode. The 1100 is 1280x720, as far as I know. Thanks for the explanation of why I can only see RGB for my HDMI-DVI connection.

Rich or others, can you confirm that you can play PAL "all region" DVD on the 97S?

Thanks

Try just using the standard picture modes and setup and see what happends.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
The Momitsu, in my view has the superior scaler. For example, while the zoom function isn't as flexible as the Panaonic's the Momitsu's "zoomed" image is far superior.

Paul, what is your final verdict on Panny vs Momitsu?

Thanks

I own both players and enjoy the strengths of both. My thoughts on both players are in the first post of this thread.

Paul

Originally posted by mgkg3
First, I am very impressed by Paul and his dedication to get the info to the form! The amount of response, and the rate in which he is answering questions are amazing. I think this thread is now well over 440 postings and, I bet, third to half is Paul responding to question...Bravo!

So I got mine from Onecall also. Got it yesterday (picked it up at the FedEx station). It is hooked up to Panny commercial 50 plasma (6UY) via DVI blade. While I do not calibrate the combination other than with my own eyes (after all, I'm the one watching it:), this unit is most impressive. Frankly, after a disappointing experience with Denon 1910 in early September, I was expecting alot less. For some reasons, I had HCDP handshake problem with Denon and the PQ was only marginally better than my existing 480p player (Panny DVR DMR-80H) via component. Naturally I returned the unit with the intent to buy either the Sony or Panny about now.
......

Regards,

Have you considered getting an HDMI board to connect the video over HDMI, this would save the DVI blade for a cable box or satellite receiver?

Thanks

Originally posted by bigcat
Folks,

I got this player and I am having the following problem:

The HDMI video looks very bad. Lots of pixelation.

The cable is properly connected. Component video looks ok.

The HDMI cable is going directly to the TV 1HDMI input. I have a sony rear projection tv (HDTV)

I tried 480, 720, 1080, without any good results. Any ideas what I could try?

Thanks for the help

I have the 55WF655. I tried the Sony NS975 and came to the same conclusion on the HDMI connection...looked very bad with lots of pixelation.

I tried the Sony HDMI cable and Monster HDMI cable...made no difference.

I have the Sony 60" (KDF-60WF655) with the same setup and have no problems at all. I also used the cable that shipped with the player. What is the manufacture date on your Panasonic and Sony?

I didn't get the manufacture date.

Hi, I'm new to this forum and have just purchased a Panasonic PT-43LC14 LCD Projection TV and Panasonic DVD-S97. I've connected the DVD player to the TV with the supplied HDMI cable. After spending a couple of days playing with various configurations I have not been too impressed with the picture quality when viewing DVDs (I won't have my Comcast HDTV installed for a couple more weeks). When viewing the Lord of the Rings Return of the King DVD, the picture is OK but not as sharp as I would like. In fact the picture seems somewhat out of focus with noticeable fringing between light and dark areas of the image. My old Toshiba non-progressive DVD player connected to a 50" Toshiba rear-projection TV via component video puts up a much sharper image. I haven't tried switching to component video on the Panasonic setup to see if it makes a difference. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also, is there a difference between the DVD-S97 and DVD-S97S? I've seen the player referred to both ways.

Originally posted by DanvilleCraig
Hi, I'm new to this forum and have just purchased a Panasonic PT-43LC14 LCD Projection TV and Panasonic DVD-S97. I've connected the DVD player to the TV with the supplied HDMI cable. After spending a couple of days playing with various configurations I have not been too impressed with the picture quality when viewing DVDs (I won't have my Comcast HDTV installed for a couple more weeks). When viewing the Lord of the Rings Return of the King DVD, the picture is OK but not as sharp as I would like. In fact the picture seems somewhat out of focus with noticeable fringing between light and dark areas of the image. My old Toshiba non-progressive DVD player connected to a 50" Toshiba rear-projection TV via component video puts up a much sharper image. I haven't tried switching to component video on the Panasonic setup to see if it makes a difference. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also, is there a difference between the DVD-S97 and DVD-S97S? I've seen the player referred to both ways.

I have the S97 and the PT-50LC13, so I use the DVI->HDMI adapter, and PQ is much better than my old Pany RP56. I also have components connected, so I can easily switch from HDMI/720P to 480P and HDMI/720P gives much better colors and details. I only have RGB color space, so I use RGB Range Standard not Enhanced, colors look more natural to me.

My brother has the new Pany DLP PT-50DL54 with S97 HDMI connection, PQ is amazing, even better that my setup, especially BLACKS. He uses the recommended settings from Paul's 1st post. The other day we watched "Hero" and "Chronicles of Riddick" and we were blown away with PQ.

Koop

got the toshiba 592 from BB and the HDMI looks perfect. I guess there's nothing wrong with my display.

so does this look like something is wrong with my S97. I tested it with the toshiba cable, same problem. I guess I'd like to be sure I got I defective unit and its not a "compatibility" issue between this player and my TV. I have the 57WS655... or something I am not setting correctly on the player?? but my guess this is a plug and play thing correct? What you guys think?

Originally posted by bigcat
Folks,

I got this player and I am having the following problem:

The HDMI video looks very bad. Lots of pixelation.

The cable is properly connected. Component video looks ok.

The HDMI cable is going directly to the TV 1HDMI input. I have a sony rear projection tv (HDTV)

I tried 480, 720, 1080, without any good results. Any ideas what I could try?

Thanks for the help

I also have the Panny DLP PT-50DL54 with the S97, what are the recommended settings from Paul. What page is it on?
thanks,
Scott

Originally posted by DanvilleCraig
Hi, I'm new to this forum and have just purchased a Panasonic PT-43LC14 LCD Projection TV and Panasonic DVD-S97. When viewing the Lord of the Rings Return of the King DVD, the picture is OK but not as sharp as I would like. In fact the picture seems somewhat out of focus with noticeable fringing between light and dark areas of the image. My old Toshiba non-progressive DVD player connected to a 50" Toshiba rear-projection TV via component video puts up a much sharper image.

Did u try connecting ur toshiba player to ur new panasonic PT-43LC14.
Is ur toshiba rear projection CRT or LCD?

when i compare the PQ of my TV ( 50LC14) to directview CRT TV, the CRT
TV is much better ( i would say out-of-box CRT is even better than plasma..IMO).

Maybe ur Toshiba TV has better PQ than the PTLC14 !!

Originally posted by caboman
I also have the Panny DLP PT-50DL54 with the S97, what are the recommended settings from Paul. What page is it on?
thanks,
Scott

Look at the 1st posting of this thread, Paul has a list of initial settings, and that what we used

Koop

Originally posted by koopalei
I have the S97 and the PT-50LC13, so I use the DVI->HDMI adapter, and PQ is much better than my old Pany RP56. I also have components connected, so I can easily switch from HDMI/720P to 480P and HDMI/720P gives much better colors and details. I only have RGB color space, so I use RGB Range Standard not Enhanced, colors look more natural to me.

My brother has the new Pany DLP PT-50DL54 with S97 HDMI connection, PQ is amazing, even better that my setup, especially BLACKS. He uses the recommended settings from Paul's 1st post. The other day we watched "Hero" and "Chronicles of Riddick" and we were blown away with PQ.

Koop

Where can I find Pauls recommended settings? What page is it on. I also have the Panny DLP and the s97.
thanks,
Scott

Scott,

My S97 settings are in the "Initial Settings" topic of the first post of this thread -- just a guide to help get started.

Paul

Hello bigcat,

Sounds like a bad player or some sort of compatibility issue. Good work in tracking it down.

Paul

Disclord,

What about the failure they reported in Auto 2 mode with the Incorrect Progressive Flag test? What kind of display do you have? I have mine connected via HDMI/DVI to a Sanyo PLV-Z2 LCD projector. It is absolutely awesome (I have an XP30 as well). I love my S97! Also, I have no macroblocking at all with the Z2. How can I get a copy of the "Microsoft DVD Test Annex and on the Faroudja 3-2 film recognition test signals on the Kenwood DVD" discs? I want to test this as well.

Originally posted by Disclord
I received the Panasonic DVD-S97 the other day and after putting it through its paces am a bit suprised by the results of the Secrets Shootout.

They failed it on the "3-2 Cadence Video Flags" test - It passed on my player - both on the Microsoft DVD Test Annex and on the Faroudja 3-2 film recognition test signals on the Kenwood DVD, which has no film flags. On my homemade DVD's of LaserDisc's, it recognizes the 3-2 pattern quickly.

They also didn't mention that in the "Video" de-interlacing mode, the Faroudja DCDi is turned OFF. The Faroudja Flag Waving test sequence illustrates it clearly - in the "Video" mode, there are jaggies galore, but in "Auto 1" or "Auto 2", it smooth and clear.

The Benchmark shootout also stated that the player had the 4:2:0 chroma problem, but I can't see it at all - on any material I've used, including the Microsoft DVD Test Annex chroma bug test, the chroma is clean and smooth. It looks, to ME, that Panasonic has implemented the Faroudja chroma filters differently - the S97 looks to have very good chroma resolution. (oh, how I wish there were a disc with a vertical chroma test)

I'm wondering if perhaps the guys at Secrets got a defective DVD-S97? Mine works and looks great - compared to my Zenith DVB-318, the Panasonic has more high frequency detail - it looks like the Zenith has too much video noise reduction. BTW, the manufacture date of my S97 is September 2004.

Happy Holidays!

Ty C.

Disclord,

FYI...my S97 was also built on September 2004....and the serial number ends in "007027". What about yours?

Disclord,

Can you please post your firmware version as well?

Sango

Sango, How do you check the firmware version of the 97s. I am using it with a Panasonic AE 700 and I have had few Macroblocking issues. I can only see it on a very few sources. I wonder if a firmware fix is possible considering other players with the Faroudja chip have it.?

>>What about the failure they reported in Auto 2 mode with the Incorrect Progressive Flag test?<<

Passed it with no problems - in fact, I keep mine in Auto 2 mode at all times. Video Mode is useless since it turns off DCDi. Oh, it passed the PAL flag tests on the MS Test DVD too.

>>What kind of display do you have?<<

Sanyo PLV-Z1 - I'm about ready to purchase a Z3 so I can have HDMI.

>>How can I get a copy of the "Microsoft DVD Test Annex and on the Faroudja 3-2 film recognition test signals on the Kenwood DVD" discs?<<

You can order the Microsoft DVD directly from their site - I can't remember the link right now - it's the Windows Hardware Quality Assurance site. The DVD is a 2 disc set with all kinds of tests - Stacy Spears helped create it.

The Kenwood DVD was/is a free DVD Kenwood gave away to promote thier Soverign line - It came with my Soverign receiver. It has all the Faroudja "torture" tests on it for Motion Adaptive, Film Mode Recognition, Flag Waving, etc... email me at the address on my VHD Disc World homepage.

Cheers!
Ty C. :-)

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Disclord,

FYI...my S97 was also built on September 2004....and the serial number ends in "007027". What about yours?

Mine ends in "007465"

Cheers!
Ty C. :-)

Good news:
I can confirm that discrete codes for ON/OFF for other Panasonic DVD players do work on the S97. I can't remember which model I pulled off of RemoteCentral.com, but I've attached .txt file exported from IRClone for MX-500 owners. I'm still working several macros through, but the Discrete On, Discrete Off, and Open (Tray) all work.

Bad news:
The PQ for me is still sub-par to my HD931. I have an S97 --> HDMI-to-DVI --> Gefen 4x1 DVI Switch --> Sammy HLN507W. After making recommended setting changes (from Page 1), which included Brightness +1, and the two filters activated, Shrek 2 looked stellar. But every non-animated film looks disappointing, especially Attack of the Clones. Haven't had time to do DVE, so perhaps that will help.

Thanks to all.

rwestley:

Look at the FAQ because it's mentioned there and also my own firmware thread.

Sango

Originally posted by Newbie Delgath

Bad news:
The PQ for me is still sub-par to my HD931.

Really??

IMO, the 931 is a piece of trash. I had it for a couple months. It CANNOT pass BTB. In dark scenes, it looked terrible! Not to mention the audio synch problem that Samsung gave up on.

On my Sammy HLP6163, the S97 blows away the 931. The only damn problem with the S97 is the macroblocking in some movies.

Sango,

My firmware version is the same as Paul Bigelow's test unit. I just checked mine:

Firmware version: 85E528

The more I switch back and forth from my S97 to my XP-30, and testing them with DVE, I am really starting to love my S97. Using HDMI and 720p to my Z2, the colors are so accurate and the picture is so sharp it is incredible. The only adjustment I have made is the +1 on the Brightness to make BTB work out perfectly. WTW worked out perfect with contrast set to 0. I am using sharpness set to 0 on my S97 and on my Z2, with none of the MPEG DNR stuff enabled. I am running in Auto2 mode.

This really is an amazing player. It's interesting that disclord (above) has discovered that the player really does pass the Incorrect Progressive Flags test and the 3-2 Cadence Video Flags test. I am going to try and test this myself when I get the discs. Maybe Kris Deering was rushing during testing and had the player in video mode or something??? Also, the Layer change is a little faster than the XP30/50/RP82, as is the responsiveness (although I am not as concerned with these since they don't really affect picture quality). I am also thankful I don't have any macroblocking with my display.

If the S97 truly does pass the Incorrect Progressive Flags test and the 3-2 Cadence Video Flags test, then this is really a 92-93 Secrets score. This is a keeper for me and is now replacing my XP30 as my main DVD player in my Home Theater. Panasonic is back.

Originally posted by Sango
Disclord,

Can you please post your firmware version as well?

Sango

My firmware version is the same 85E528

With my S97, it works perfectly with everything at the normal picture settings and stuff. It does look like the MB is display depedent after all.

Keep the XP30 LiteUp ehhe! =)

I think that MB visibility has to do with the gray scale linearity of the display. If the display has good gray scale linearity, you may not see MB. If it does not, I think MB will be more visible.

My HT1000 projector has very good gray scale linearity and I have yet to see MB when it is calibrated.

Originally posted by Newbie Delgath
Good news:
I can confirm that discrete codes for ON/OFF for other Panasonic DVD players do work on the S97. I can't remember which model I pulled off of RemoteCentral.com, but I've attached .txt file exported from IRClone for MX-500 owners. I'm still working several macros through, but the Discrete On, Discrete Off, and Open (Tray) all work.

Bad news:
The PQ for me is still sub-par to my HD931. I have an S97 --> HDMI-to-DVI --> Gefen 4x1 DVI Switch --> Sammy HLN507W. After making recommended setting changes (from Page 1), which included Brightness +1, and the two filters activated, Shrek 2 looked stellar. But every non-animated film looks disappointing, especially Attack of the Clones. Haven't had time to do DVE, so perhaps that will help.

Thanks to all.

I only used Paul's recommended settings, and left the filter settings un-changed. Try letting all the NR filters back to NONE, and see how you like it

Koop

Paul,

When you reviewed the Momitsu vs Panny, is it the DX of the Momitsu. I am starting to look into it due to the Panny macroblocking issue (the region free is also a plus for the momitsu).

I took the plunge recently and purchased both the Panny TH-42PD25U/P and DVD-S97. These were added to my Sony STR-DE875 (Dolby Digitial/DTS) AV/Receiver and Boston Acoustics 5 speaker surround system. I have pored throught this thread and while I have found some great info am still stumped with some audio issues.....let me continue....I am running HD TV in using a Cablecard. I have connected the S97 and TV using the HDMI cable and also the Optical. I have also run both Optical and Analog cables from the S97 to the Receiver. Here is what I get Audio-wise:

1. Playing DVDs I can get Dolby Pro Logic Surround but not DTS or Dolby Digital. On the S97 menu I have HDMI ON selected. If I turn that off I get no sound. I also have Bitstream selected.
2. On the TV I can get Dolby Digital Surround when watching HD broadcasts with this feature.
3. When playing CDs on the S97 I cannot play without having the TV on. I am concerned that playing CDs with a DVD Audio/Visual Logo on the sceen will create burn in problems....not to mention I don't understand why the TV would have to be on to play a CD.

I have been playing around with different setting options on both the VCR and TV for days and feel I have exhausted all opportunities. I suspect this has something to do with the HDMI connection but I am not sure why or what. Or is this just a limitation of the S97? In which case I would probably return it for a Progressive scan that can play Dolby Digital audio. BTW Panasonic has been absolutely no help when I have been able to get through to someone. Please help me before I pull the rest of the hair out of my head!

I don't have this player but if you are using optical from the S97 to the receiver than the HDMI audio ouput should be "off". The video output for HDMI would be "on". Since your receiver has a decoder "bitstream" should be correct but make sure the PCM digital ouptut is not set to "off". My guess is since you have HDMI audio to "on" that is why the TV needs to be on to hear CD's. Normally this should not be the case if your audio is from the player to the receiver.

Originally posted by dorsch
I took the plunge recently and purchased both the Panny TH-42PD25U/P and DVD-S97. These were added to my Sony STR-DE875 (Dolby Digitial/DTS) AV/Receiver and Boston Acoustics 5 speaker surround system. I have pored throught this thread and while I have found some great info am still stumped with some audio issues.....let me continue....I am running HD TV in using a Cablecard. I have connected the S97 and TV using the HDMI cable and also the Optical. I have also run both Optical and Analog cables from the S97 to the Receiver. Here is what I get Audio-wise:

1. Playing DVDs I can get Dolby Pro Logic Surround but not DTS or Dolby Digital. On the S97 menu I have HDMI ON selected. If I turn that off I get no sound. I also have Bitstream selected.
2. On the TV I can get Dolby Digital Surround when watching HD broadcasts with this feature.
3. When playing CDs on the S97 I cannot play without having the TV on. I am concerned that playing CDs with a DVD Audio/Visual Logo on the sceen will create burn in problems....not to mention I don't understand why the TV would have to be on to play a CD.

I have been playing around with different setting options on both the VCR and TV for days and feel I have exhausted all opportunities. I suspect this has something to do with the HDMI connection but I am not sure why or what. Or is this just a limitation of the S97? In which case I would probably return it for a Progressive scan that can play Dolby Digital audio. BTW Panasonic has been absolutely no help when I have been able to get through to someone. Please help me before I pull the rest of the hair out of my head!

This is the answer to your #3.

You need to turn off "Multi Re-master" from the S97 Display->Audio menu, regardless of the setting of HDMI Audio. I ran into the same problem, I could not play CD thru my optical connection to my preamp/amp set up. Then I read the S97 manual carefully, bottom of page 9 talks about this Multi Re-Master setting.

Hope it works for you

Koop

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Paul,

When you reviewed the Momitsu vs Panny, is it the DX of the Momitsu. I am starting to look into it due to the Panny macroblocking issue (the region free is also a plus for the momitsu).

Rock,

The original V880 was used not the improved DX version with the extra D/A converters. According to extremephono the DX version improved only the component output. DVI was unchanged.

Paul

Originally posted by kdog044
I don't have this player but if you are using optical from the S97 to the receiver than the HDMI audio ouput should be "off". The video output for HDMI would be "on". Since your receiver has a decoder "bitstream" should be correct but make sure the PCM digital ouptut is not set to "off". My guess is since you have HDMI audio to "on" that is why the TV needs to be on to hear CD's. Normally this should not be the case if your audio is from the player to the receiver.

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately as soon as I turn off HDMI Audio I lose all sound. With it on I get surround sound but not DTS or Digital Dolby. My S97 setup menu is Setup>Audio PCMDigital Output Up to 48 kHz
Dolby Digital>Bitstream
Dolby Digital Surround>Bitstream

also Setup>HDMI>HDMI Audio Output (Off)

Man this is getting frustrating.

Originally posted by koopalei
This is the answer to your #3.

You need to turn off "Multi Re-master" from the S97 Display->Audio menu, regardless of the setting of HDMI Audio. I ran into the same problem, I could not play CD thru my optical connection to my preamp/amp set up. Then I read the S97 manual carefully, bottom of page 9 talks about this Multi Re-Master setting.

Hope it works for you

Koop

Thanks Koop. I can now get sound with the TV off although it is basicall center channel speaker with minimal sound from the fronts. I can't seem to find a setting with the receiver to get any better sound than this from a CD.:confused:

Originally posted by dorsch
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately as soon as I turn off HDMI Audio I lose all sound. With it on I get surround sound but not DTS or Digital Dolby. My S97 setup menu is Setup>Audio PCMDigital Output Up to 48 kHz
Dolby Digital>Bitstream
Dolby Digital Surround>Bitstream

also Setup>HDMI>HDMI Audio Output (Off)

Man this is getting frustrating.

You could just run an analog RCA link from the s97 out to the "CD in" of the receiver. I tried this with my Marantz SR9200 which will process the CD audio into various formats.
I found the "re-master" switch also after not getting CD audio through the optical link.
I have to mention that I am very happy with the Panny 42PHD7UY and S97 Santa brought. Out of the box, with minimal setup, it has incredible picture and sound.

Originally posted by dorsch
Thanks Koop. I can now get sound with the TV off although it is basicall center channel speaker with minimal sound from the fronts. I can't seem to find a setting with the receiver to get any better sound than this from a CD.:confused:

What is your receiver's "sound field program" for the OPTICAL/DIGITAL input from the dvd player ( it's an yamaha receiver term..not sure what is the term used in sony).

If your receiver's sound field program is set to "Dolby digital" or any of the
surround sound fields AND you send a 2 channel input signal, the receiver will convert the 2-channel input into a virtual surround and it MAY send most of the sound on the center channel.
Try changing your receiver's sound field program to "Direct Stereo" or "2-channel stereo". Then music will come out 2 mains.

note: i am basing my opinion on my yamaha htr5760 receiver and assuming
that your receiver may have similar sound field options.

iamtarun

I am a novice at this, however I have my player connected to my TV using HDMI with HDMI audio on and to my receiver with Optical only. My receiver is an inexpensive Pioneer with 5.1 Dolby and DTS. I have the receiver on Auto Detect for surround and have no problem with either Dolby Digital or DTS. I have noticed when I go into the player to 'test' the speakers it does not work, but when watching a movie it is fine.

I have not tried playing CDs yet.

Thanks to everyone who responded with suggestions. After spending 30 minutes with a Panny rep who was just basically putting me on hold and reading the manual I demanded to speak to her supervisor. I then got a very helpful guy who spent over 1.5 hours with me running through a multitude of checks. The guy dowloaded the Sony Receiver manual and we finally isolated the problem! It was a simple matter of switching the receiver input from coaxial to optical. After several days of going crazy it was a simple input setup issue. The TV/DVD look and sound great now:D I still have to tackle the CD audio issue but I need a break.

Originally posted by Newbie Delgath
Good news:
I can confirm that discrete codes for ON/OFF for other Panasonic DVD players do work on the S97. I can't remember which model I pulled off of RemoteCentral.com, but I've attached .txt file exported from IRClone for MX-500 owners. I'm still working several macros through, but the Discrete On, Discrete Off, and Open (Tray) all work.

Thanks to all.

I've just gone through all the pronto .ccf files that state they have discrete codes, but could get none to work. If anyone has a .ccf file with discrete on/off for the S97 I would be very grateful if you PM me, or let me know where to find. Thanks.

soundman..you are right. I usually have my HDMI audio off. But now, I tried having my HDMI audio ON. The dvd player outputs on both the co-axial and hdmi audio outputs simultaneously ( for both DD dvds and stereo CDs). I get the sound on both the TV via hdmi and on my separate-speakers via optical.

btw..i am also a newbie..

Originally posted by ethanj
mallu2u,

I'm using the Panasonic S97S with a Sanyo PLV-Z2 LCD front projector with DVI input, no HDMI. Is the correct setting for the HDMI RGB range Standard and not Enhanced? I found that if I set it to Standard, from Avia, I have to set the Brightness control on my projector way down. If I set it to Enhanced, Brightness is about at mid point. However, Enhanced makes it look a little darker, perhaps this is the black crush that everyone is talking about.
Enhanced mode surely crushes black and I confirmed this with Avia. Therefore Standard is a better setting. I agree with your observation about brightness with enhanced mode. My suggetion is to keep it as Standard.

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Well, after playing around with the settings via component and HDMI, I have decided to go with 480p via component until they have fixed the macroblocking issue.

Since my tv (HLP6163) upconverts the image to 720p, I do not see a noticable difference between the 2 inputs (other than no mb on component).

Black levels look good on both and the picture looks sharp. I just got tired of the macroblocking!

I really love the dvd player (for all the features and pq on most dvds). Hopefully, a firmware update will come out and fix the mb issue.

RockStrongo: I was forced to move back to component since I am looking for a good HDMI/DVI cable right now. I must say I am impressed with 480p of this player. No MB issues...tempting to just stay with it! I have the Sony 60'' XBR LCD RPTV.

Guys: Any suggestions for the HDMI-->DVI cable. Dont want to spend on the expensive monster cable.

Originally posted by mallu2u
RockStrongo: I was forced to move back to component since I am looking for a good HDMI/DVI cable right now. I must say I am impressed with 480p of this player. No MB issues...tempting to just stay with it! I have the Sony 60'' XBR LCD RPTV.

Guys: Any suggestions for the HDMI-->DVI cable. Dont want to spend on the expensive monster cable.

Gefen has HDMI-DVI cable for decent price, check it out www.gefen.com. I found a used one on Ebay :)

Koop

Originally posted by mallu2u
RockStrongo: I was forced to move back to component since I am looking for a good HDMI/DVI cable right now. I must say I am impressed with 480p of this player. No MB issues...tempting to just stay with it! I have the Sony 60'' XBR LCD RPTV.

Guys: Any suggestions for the HDMI-->DVI cable. Dont want to spend on the expensive monster cable.

I have also purchased the GEFEN HDMI/DVI cable, you can find one on e-bay for under 50 bucks. I also have their HDTV 4x1 switch.
Caboman

Originally posted by mallu2u
RockStrongo: I was forced to move back to component since I am looking for a good HDMI/DVI cable right now. I must say I am impressed with 480p of this player. No MB issues...tempting to just stay with it! I have the Sony 60'' XBR LCD RPTV.

Guys: Any suggestions for the HDMI-->DVI cable. Dont want to spend on the expensive monster cable.

Yes, the 480p component of this player is very good compared to my old Denon 1910 and Sammy 931.

Ive ordered the Momitsu V880DX to see how it performs. Ive always wanted a region free player and the reports are pretty good on it.

The only issue is that I have a pioneer receiver and supposedly the remote conflicts with them. Unfortunately, I didn't read that until I had already ordered. Oh well, I will give it a spin and see what happens.

As for HDMI - DVI cable, I got one off ebay sometime back for $26 shipped. Just search for one from someone reputable.

Agreed. I have a Z2. Standard is the correct setting for the S97 over HDMI to DVI.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Enhanced mode surely crushes black and I confirmed this with Avia. Therefore Standard is a better setting. I agree with your observation about brightness with enhanced mode. My suggetion is to keep it as Standard.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Enhanced mode surely crushes black and I confirmed this with Avia. Therefore Standard is a better setting. I agree with your observation about brightness with enhanced mode. My suggetion is to keep it as Standard.

I think it depends on the display. I find that enhanced brings blacks down to the appropriate level and does not crush blacks. Standard elevates all my black levels and kills the apparent CR. My display is an HT1000 w/ dvi.

A good place to get a dvi-hdmi cable is at ram electronics. Very good price w/ return policy. It's been rock solid for me except for one weird breakup... but I've been using it for months with no problems. I have the 40' cable.

Originally posted by RockStrongo

Also, I tried to watch Collateral and it has some serious mb problems too.

RockStrongo,
Can u say which scenes had MB? If possible, pls post a pic.

Originally posted by iamtarun
RockStrongo,
Can u say which scenes had MB? If possible, pls post a pic.

The scene at the beginning where Jada Pinkett is in the back seat of the taxi with Jamie Foxx driving. During that scene, both of their faces look very digital. When I switched to component, it looks more realistic.

I'm getting a momitsu next week, ill post some compare pics at that time. Samsung is also sending me a HD941, I may compare it too. Not sure though, after reading about it, I may sell it unopened on ebay.

Thank you mallu2u.

pocoloco, did you recalibrate your HT1000 after setting S97 to Standard mode? With my Z2, after I set S97 to Standard mode, I have to reduce Brightness down to -17 from -3 with Enhanced. This brings the black level down and all looks good now.

Picked up a s97 yesterday.. So far Im very happy with the video. Having owned the denon 3910 and zenith dvb318

I had to adjust brightness up to +2 on the player to get my Panasonic ae 500 projector to pass btb . I set the black level to standard..Everything is passing, no y/c delay problems, colors are a perect zero on avia, no crushing etc. (havent noticed any mb but I dont look for it either). One thing Im extremly happy about is the colors ..no green depression or push. I had a denon 3910 but it had green push (colors didnt look right) ..I also have a zenith dvb318 and it has a 20 % green depression. In an a/b of the zenith upscaled versues the pany s97 its no contest..the panasonics colors walk all over the zenith and worth the upgrade.
One thing I did notice on the black test bars on dve..they appear to be out of focus ? ..not sure why certain test patterns seem almost like their ghosting or something ..I dont see this when watching source material so it isnt a big deal I guess.
One reeeeaaally stupid question however ..where in the hell is the freakin open/close button on the remote? cant believe I cant find it

Originally posted by pocoloco
I think it depends on the display. I find that enhanced brings blacks down to the appropriate level and does not crush blacks. Standard elevates all my black levels and kills the apparent CR. My display is an HT1000 w/ dvi.


I do not believe it is display dependent. Setting it to enhanced does crush blacks regardless of the display.

Hi Guys,

Got my s97 yesterday after following this thread for some time. I must agree that it seems to be a great player, but have only played with component for now as I need to get my hands on a suitable HDMI-DVI cable.

My questions relates to making this player region free. There are a couple of UK sites that sell single use remotes that allegedly make the player region free. Are such hacks theoritically possible? If they are, why is there no info relating to this on any google-able sites out there?

Sorry if this post contravenes any rules (I read the FAQ and couldn't spot a rule against it) - please amend if necessary.

Keep up the great work Paul and the rest of you :)

Xav

The reason why you can't find the open/close button is that it is not there.

For some stupid reason Panasonic did not include it. You can get a universal remote and the open close button will work on the 97. Panasonic should come out with a new remote for the unit.

For some stupid reason Panasonic did not include it.

Unbelieveable !:confused:

Originally posted by psujohny
Unbelieveable !:confused:

The paradigm is that all of the old VCR and DVD players had eject/open/close buttons for lack of other available features that made more sense, so you just expect it w/o reasoning why. Now you can adjust color, brightness etc w/o having to fumble through menu after menu. After all, you have to get up to remove or replace the disc, so whether you press a button on the remote or at the player there is no logical difference! At least they placed the button right next to the tray.:)

yppAH New Year

Originally posted by RockStrongo
The scene at the beginning where Jada Pinkett is in the back seat of the taxi with Jamie Foxx driving. During that scene, both of their faces look very digital. When I switched to component, it looks more realistic.


Actually just finished watching Collateral and didn't have much MB at all. None whatsoever in the scene you describe with JPS. Only MB was in Ch 18 in her office where the lights are out and it's really dark. Even then it was minor. I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't get my Samsung ISF'd :)

I am going to go demo a S97 tomorrow @ Magnolia. What are some popular movie scenes where I can give MB a gander?

I'll probably still pick it up though. I hate my Momitsu's little quirks enough to get something else (mostly the remote conflict w/ my pioneer and it's crude GUI) as long as the picture is comparable.

If you need a DVI/HDMI cable, I just got a nice one from www.bluejeanscable.com for ~34 bucks for a 1m. Build quality is nice.

Originally posted by Smeagle
I've just gone through all the pronto .ccf files that state they have discrete codes, but could get none to work. If anyone has a .ccf file with discrete on/off for the S97 I would be very grateful if you PM me, or let me know where to find. Thanks.

The on/off codes listed here in "set 1" do work:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=prontong&db=discrete&br=panasonic&dv=dvdplayer&fc=

Originally posted by EricScott
Actually just finished watching Collateral and didn't have much MB at all. None whatsoever in the scene you describe with JPS. Only MB was in Ch 18 in her office where the lights are out and it's really dark. Even then it was minor. I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't get my Samsung ISF'd :)

Ill try and take some comparison pictures this weekend between component and HDMI on the S97. I get the momitsu v880dx on Tuesday. I will do some more on that day with the same scenes.

Originally posted by rwestley
The reason why you can't find the open/close button is that it is not there.

For some stupid reason Panasonic did not include it. You can get a universal remote and the open close button will work on the 97. Panasonic should come out with a new remote for the unit.

Is this really a big deal for people?

Maybe I just would not use it much. Since I have to get up to switch disks anyways, it just seems easy to hit the button then.

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Is this really a big deal for people?

Maybe I just would not use it much. Since I have to get up to switch disks anyways, it just seems easy to hit the button then.

I agree, I don't understand why this is an issue. The remote does have a close button disguised as "play" and since you have to be in the vicinity of the player to change disks anyway I can't see why simply pressing the open button on the player is somehow considered inconvenient.

In my situation I actually consider this a benefit. With a few young children running around at times playing with the remotes I'm pleased they can not open the drawer by accident and then, undoubtedly attracted to the wonderful sights and sounds of this new toy, snap the drawer off.

Can anyone confirm whether, if multi-region enabled, the S97 can automatically detect and switch between PAL disc upscaling for output at 720/50p and NTSC upscaling for 720/60p ?

Ta!

ps from one of the posts earlier it seems as if the Samsung 941, while it has plenty of other niggles, doesn't mb-enhance as much as the S97?

Originally posted by EricScott
Only MB was in Ch 18 in her office where the lights are out and it's really dark.

It's getting very hard for me to determine if s97s and pt50lc14 combo shows MB. Either because my display ( pt50lc14) does not show it or My eyes are'nt that sharp enough .
Eric, if possible, pls post a pic of that MB scene.

I had a region 0 PAL disc and it would not work at 720p or 1080i without major problems. At "480p" it output at "576p" and the picture was going nutty.

Originally posted by iamtarun
It's getting very hard for me to determine if s97s and pt50lc14 combo shows MB. Either because my display ( pt50lc14) does not show it or My eyes are'nt that sharp enough .
Eric, if possible, pls post a pic of that MB scene.

Sorry - already on its way back to Netflix :) The MB was minor even in this scene. The entire scene was almost totally black and there was just a general fuzziness to the picture. But the scene earlier with Jada Pinkett looked totally fine, contrary to what Rock reported. His set has been ISF'd, mine has not - maybe his picutre is just more accurate and therefore brings out more imperfections.

There's another thread in this forum where the general conclusion is that macroblocking is largely display dependent. At least that seems to be the opinion of Stacey Spears (formerly of the Secrets website that does the DVD player shootouts) and Kris Deering (who currently does tehm over at secrets).

Originally posted by Hugh2
I agree, I don't understand why this is an issue. The remote does have a close button disguised as "play" and since you have to be in the vicinity of the player to change disks anyway I can't see why simply pressing the open button on the player is somehow considered inconvenient.

In my situation I actually consider this a benefit. With a few young children running around at times playing with the remotes I'm pleased they can not open the drawer by accident and then, undoubtedly attracted to the wonderful sights and sounds of this new toy, snap the drawer off.

Some of us are a little older and may have back problems and eye problems and it is easier for us to have a one-step situation (bend down, drop in the disk, get up) rather than a two-step (or more) situation (bend down, fumble for that button down there, press it (and that's a different muscle or whatever in the back and different balance), then rebalance, drop in the disk, get up). And I am being serious. At some point late in life, anything that takes pressure off the back, or causes fewer balance problems, or makes it less difficult when looking through trifocals, can be wonderful. And I am not in bad shape for my age.

Fortunately, I have my old Panny remote which I use to open the drawer.

Originally posted by JSchulte
There's another thread in this forum where the general conclusion is that macroblocking is largely display dependent. At least that seems to be the opinion of Stacey Spears (formerly of the Secrets website that does the DVD player shootouts) and Kris Deering (who currently does tehm over at secrets).
Where is this thread?

Has anybody else seen faint black lines beside the btb bars on dve ?
Also I see a faint line on 2.34 movies right above the bottom black bar..Its almost like deep blacks are ghosting or something ??

EDIT. Also I just went back and looked at dve btb test ..Not only is the btb bar have a ghosted image but the other two bars (which are lighter) have a faint black line on the INSIDE of the bars (almost like their kinda ghosting inwards.
Ive tried playing with all the various settings on the player ..and oddly enough adjusting the contrast or brightness up and down does seem to have an effect on both the inner and outer lines, BUT never really totally removes them.
I have to say if its doing this to my btb test pattern it MUST be having an effect on the actual image ( I havent seen this effect on any of my other dvd players)

Originally posted by AlanMa
Some of us are a little older and may have back problems and eye problems and it is easier for us to have a one-step situation (bend down, drop in the disk, get up) rather than a two-step (or more) situation (bend down, fumble for that button down there, press it (and that's a different muscle or whatever in the back and different balance), then rebalance, drop in the disk, get up). And I am being serious. At some point late in life, anything that takes pressure off the back, or causes fewer balance problems, or makes it less difficult when looking through trifocals, can be wonderful. And I am not in bad shape for my age.

Fortunately, I have my old Panny remote which I use to open the drawer.

That makes sense, I incorrectly dismissed this option as an aid. Though my back and sight are fine on occasion I can definitely relate to the rebalancing situation.

It's been my my experience that the MB is display dependent as well. Hardly noticible and sometimes not seen on a Panasonic LCD. Quite noticible on a Sharp LCD. The Panasonic does a better job with false contouring artifcacts ane low level color -- the Panasonic's picture, IMHO, is less noisy from the outset.

Paul

Guys: Any suggestions for the HDMI-->DVI cable. Dont want to spend on the expensive monster cable.
I got a HDMI -->DVI cable at http://www.ramelectronics.net/catalogbyProdID.asp?prodid=DVI2HDMI-6 for a decent price. The shipping was slow, but since it was close to Christmas, they were probably overwhelmed.

I found a very good super low priced HDMI/DVI cable at Monoprice. Search
Google for link since it is against the rules to post. I am using these
cables and they work great

EDIT. Also I just went back and looked at dve btb test ..Not only is the btb bar have a ghosted image on the outside of the bar but the other two bars (which are lighter) have a faint black line on the INSIDE of the bars (almost like their kinda ghosting inwards.

Anybody at all ? nobody has seen this ? ..I just rechecked with my sony 999es and it displays the 3 btb bars with no ghosting or lines .

Any suggestions at all what it might be ???

Originally posted by psujohny
Anybody at all ? nobody has seen this ? ..I just rechecked with my sony 999es and it displays the 3 btb bars with no ghosting or lines .

Any suggestions at all what it might be ???

I haven't witnessed the specific issue you mention but I have noticed at times the edges of the black bars on DVE are highlighted with a pixel wide lighter shade outline. This occurrence is occasional and I have no explanation what is causing it. It doesn't appear to be due to sharpness, contrast/brightness settings as it stays relatively unchanged and I'm certain it's not the PJ as I this artifact showed itself only after putting the Panny and Iscan in my system. When the artifact appears I can flip to another DVE chapter then back again and it's gone, it's very peculiar but apparently benign for normal viewing as it doesn't appear to have a negative impact on PQ.

I haven't witnessed the specific issue you mention but I have noticed at times the edges of the black bars on DVE are highlighted with a pixel wide lighter shade outline.

Yes thats what Im seeing..

Could you go back and check carefully on the dve black bars to see if you can see a faint line INSIDE the two lighter black bars to ?
(if you could drastically raise and lower the contrast and brightness and see if these outlines/inlines appear to change a little bit Id apreciate it to)

it's very peculiar but apparently benign for normal viewing as it doesn't appear to have a negative impact on PQ.

Hmm..well maybe it does but it just isnt very detechtable.

PS. Im using the player set to 720p as my panasonic ae500 pj is 720p native..Im gonna try setting the player on 1080i and see if that changes anything..

Originally posted by psujohny
Yes thats what Im seeing..

Could you go back and check carefully on the dve black bars to see if you can see a faint line INSIDE the two lighter black bars to ?
(if you could drastically raise and lower the contrast and brightness and see if these outlines/inlines appear to change a little bit Id apreciate it to)



Hmm..well maybe it does but it just isnt very detechtable.

PS. Im using the player set to 720p as my panasonic ae500 pj is 720p native..Im gonna try setting the player on 1080i and see if that changes anything..

I'll take a look later today, where is the faint line visible? Is it centered in the bars or justified right or left and I presume the line is vertical?

Originally posted by Big Worms
Where is this thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=485771&highlight=deering

I may have been wrong about Stacey Spears, but it is Kris Deering's opinion.

I just took another good look at it..

The line on the btb bar basically goes around the outside of the entire 4 sides of the bar.

The lines on the two whiter bars actually appears to be on the outside AND inside of the edge of bar ( it almost seems like a ghosted faint image of the the the outter lines of the bar itself.

I just tried it on 1080i and I get the same thing BUT when I switch to 480 p the ghosting/lines go away. Its almost like the upscaling is causing artifacts on this particular test pattern.

Originally posted by psujohny
I just took another good look at it..

The line on the btb bar basically goes around the outside of the entire 4 sides of the bar.

That's the same artifact I've been seeing but and it's most obvious on the middle bar. After I calibrate the black levels the artifact disappears as I set my levels rather dark by fading the mid level left bar (right of greyscale) into the background and then when viewing close to the screen increase the brightness just to the very first indication that the bar appears (very very slight dithering). I can't see this subtle change from my seat but this method provides relatively consistant silky resluts.

How has this player faired with the Sony GWIV LCD RP.

After I calibrate the black levels the artifact disappears as I set my levels rather dark by fading the middle bar into the background

Yea, after I calibrate for blacks I cant see the lines anymore on the blackest bar either but Im worried as to why it is there to begin with (it isnt at 480p)

and then when viewing close to the screen increase the brightness just to the very first indication that the bar appear

If I calibrated the second bar to this darkness then I wouldnt see the line on the middle bar either probably ..but again, why is this effect even present..

Originally posted by psujohny
Yea, after I calibrate for blacks I cant see the lines anymore on the blackest bar either but Im worried as to why it is there to begin with (it isnt at 480p)



If I calibrated the second bar to this darkness then I wouldnt see the line on the middle bar either probably ..but again, why is this effect even present..

My mistake, when I calibrate I fade the left bar (right side of greyscale) into the background not the middle, I'll edit my post to reflect this.

I took a photo of what I believe you are referring to, I couldn't duplicate my occasional issue with the highlighted bar borders but I got this instead.

Is this what you're seeing? The photo reduces the severity of the actual artifact.

Well, after reviewing most of this thread, I'm off to purchase a Panasonic DVD-S97S. About a week ago I purchased the Denon DVD-2910.

While I've been happy with the DVD-2910, I believe it has features at a premium that I really won't use (DVD-Audio, SACD and improved audio components overall.)

I'm going to bring home the S97 and compare some movies to see if there's any noticable difference for my purposes. I'm hoping there isn't and that I can put the additional $350 or so to better use.

Is this what you're seeing? The photo reduces the severity of the actual artifact.

YES ! Thanks Hugh for posting that picture ..I notice that you also have the faint black lines INSIDE the whiter bar, as well as the black ghosting lines OUTSIDE of the blackest bar.

What the hell is this ? ..it doesnt do this in 480p, only 720p or 1080i ..seems to be artifacts, I dont know but it doesnt seem like a good thing to me :(

It does seem to be present on my display. The bars are not as quite as well defined as would be expected. Did not see this on the Sony player or the Momitsu.

I wonder if this is a side effect of the macroblock enhance? The IRE level of these bars is the area that is the most likely to experience the macroblocking.

Paul

I re-checked later last night and the bars were perfect with no ghosting or messy artifacts but the middle bar still had darker 1 pixel border on the right sight. Similar to the lighter outlined border I experience at times this problem on my system is somewhat intermittant.

I checked the luminance cable (component) thinking that might be the issue causing reflections or something but it appears ok (8 inch length of Belden 1694A terminated with Eichmann plugs).

Could differing levels of A/C interference cause this distortion?

The panny manual says in troubleshooting that you may experience ghosting with a hdmi or dvi connection..It says if you do then turn the hdmi off and set player to 480i
Yea right ..whos gonna buy an hdmi/dvi player and do that.

So Paul is seeing it to...I wonder how many more people would see it, if they had a dve disc ..everybody ? or just some ..My belief is that everybody may have this (if there using a hdmi or dvi connection).

So hugh, your using a component connection ? or did I read your reply incorrectly .
I dont get any ghosting or lines when I switch the player to 480p ..does this mean anything to anybody ?

I dont like the looks of it ..and it seems to me it MUST be negatively effecting the picture..

Paul,
what exactly is the macroblock ENHANCE that you mentioned ?

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow

I wonder if this is a side effect of the macroblock enhance? The IRE level of these bars is the area that is the most likely to experience the macroblocking.

Paul

Does macroblocking manifest itself as chaotic or there a repeatable order to it, meaning if photos were taken of the same MC frame is the pattern consistant or does the MC pattern change if player is stopped and the frame repeated?

Have you tried turning down your sharpness on the S97 to see if this goes away? Could this be edge enhancement?

Originally posted by psujohny
YES ! Thanks Hugh for posting that picture ..I notice that you also have the faint black lines INSIDE the whiter bar, as well as the black ghosting lines OUTSIDE of the blackest bar.

What the hell is this ? ..it doesnt do this in 480p, only 720p or 1080i ..seems to be artifacts, I dont know but it doesnt seem like a good thing to me :(

Have you tried turning down your sharpness on the S97 to see if this goes away? Could this be edge enhancement

Yea I tried adjusting sharpness on both the player and pj, heck I tried every setting I have and nothing corrects either the ghosting or the faint interior lines.

You can only see the inside lines on the middle and left hand bar on Hughs picture..but in reality mine has a line on the inside and outside of the midlle/left bar ..of course I can only see the outside ghosting line on the darkest bar but I bet if the blackest bar was light enough you could see a line INSIDE of it as well..

Does a high end HDMI cable (monster) make any difference at all in PQ? I'm pretty happy with the picture with my 26HF84 Toshiba and S97, but the macroblocking bothers me.....i guess I can live with it though.

The monster HDMI cable for $129 has an amazing anti-macroblocking circuit built right into it. It requires the use of a 10 pound 320 volt AC adapter that currently has no plug that it will fit into.

Originally posted by psujohny
The panny manual says in troubleshooting that you may experience ghosting with a hdmi or dvi connection..It says if you do then turn the hdmi off and set player to 480i
Yea right ..whos gonna buy an hdmi/dvi player and do that.

Sheepishly raising hand, that's what I did. I actually purchased this player specifically for 480i component into an Iscan.

[i]So hugh, your using a component connection ? or did I read your reply incorrectly .
I dont get any ghosting or lines when I switch the player to 480p ..does this mean anything to anybody ?[/B]

That's correct I am using 480i through component into an Iscan. When I by-pass the Iscan and use the PJ's Faroudja through S-Video I still get the artifact but I haven't switched the player to 480P yet, I'll do that tonight.

Originally posted by psujohny
I dont like the looks of it ..and it seems to me it MUST be negatively effecting the picture..


Are you unhappy with your picture? If not, then it can't be too negatively affecting your picture.

John

Sheepishly raising hand, that's what I did. I actually purchased this player specifically for 480i component into an Iscan

Yea, but you have the i-scan :) ..Most users wont want to run this way though.
Ive actually been comparing the hdmi 720p out from the s97, to my sony 999es player in 480i via component, both going to my panasonic ae500 projector and unbelieveable it is really close between the two. I havent decided if the s97 is worth keeping yet or not.



Are you unhappy with your picture? If not, then it can't be too negatively affecting your picture

Yea Im happy but that doesnt mean it still isnt negatively effecting the picture.

psujohny,

For whatever it is worth, I am not seeing this ghosting on my S97 + Sanyo Z2 combination. I just ran through some video test screens with AVIA and it looked fine. I am running at 720p/HDMI to match my Z2. Is it possible that you have the Zoom at something other than 0 in the S97? I have noticed this can cause a ghosting effect (zooming enabled). The picture is noticealbly sharper with no zoom. In my opinion, the zoom feature on the S97 is worthless because of this.

I just ran through some video test screens with AVIA and it looked fine. I am running at 720p/HDMI to match my Z2. Is it possible that you have the Zoom at something other than 0 in the S97?

I dont have any problems on avia either ..its the btb test patterns on dve where Im seeing it ..also hugh and Paul have seen it to. Do you have dve that you can check it with ?
I'll double check the zoom, it shouldnt be on, unless its on as a default setting ...

I did some testing tonight with the specific movies and AVIA disc that Secrets uses for their DVD player benchmark tests. I specifically tested only the S97 failures they noted as follows, and compared with my XP30 (while I was at it):

Auto1 mode:
3-2 Cadence Video Flags (PASSES in both Auto1 and Auto2)
2-2 Cadence Film Flags (fails in Auto1 only, just like an XP30)

Auto2 mode:
3-2 Cadence Video Flags (PASSES in both Auto1 and Auto2)
Incorrect Progressive Flag (fails in Auto2 only, just like an XP30, very obvious)

The 3-2 Cadence Video Flags test looks just as good on the S97 as it does on my XP30. I used the Galaxy Quest theatrical trailer just like Secrets does with the planets scene near the beginning of it. For a failing reference, I put both my XP30 and S97 in Video mode (very obvious jaggies). With the S97 in either Auto1 or Auto2, it looks great (same as my XP30). I'm wondering if Kris Deering had the S97 in Video mode by mistake? Kris, can you please retest this?

Since it looks as though the S97 is the only player that uses the FL2310 that has the Incorrect Progressive Flag test issue, I hope Panasonic fixes this with a firmware release (although not a common problem with movies). In that case, Auto2 mode would be perfect. This would result in a 93 Secrets score.

FYI...My XP30 has the latest firmware in it and is running in 480p mode connected to my Sanyo PLV-Z2. My S97 is running in 720p mode with HDMI/DVI.

Summary:
According to my testing, the S97 should have the same score as an XP30/RP82 (91 points)....and the S97 even has a slightly faster Layer Change and Responsiveness score. Another thing I noticed in switching back and forth several times from my XP30, was the S97 (HDMI/720p) does deliver a noticeably sharper image than the XP30 (480p component) to my Z2 display. The S97 has a small amount of edge enhancement at 720p (I think), but it is very slight (as confirmed with DVE and AVIA). I personally think the S97 is an obvious improvement over my XP30. I have a special test disc coming with some Faroujda torture tests on it. Further testing to come... BTW...I still can't find any evidence of macroblocking with the S97 and my Z2 display. This player has replaced my XP30 as my main DVD player in my home theater.

(UPDATE: Kris mentioned to me in a PM he will retest this if/when he gets his hands on another player. His original test unit has already been sent back to Panasonic.)

Close-up of DVE pattern. These are MPEG-2 DCT artifacts.

Ron

I just picked on an DVD-S97S today. So far, so good. With a few quick adjustments (basically, what Paul put in the first post of this thread) the picture looks as good as the Momitsu I've had for 1.5 years. Usability is very good.

I'm on my second disc now - will try to post later this week after watching more on it. My initial take is very good - at least as good as the Momitsu on video so far.

Any news concerning the possible Zone Free sequence ?
Some european users received their S97 zone free.

Tx.

Originally posted by Han Solo
Any news concerning the possible Zone Free sequence ?
Some european users received their S97 zone free.


http://www.dvdchips.co.uk/

;)

Yes I know this site but I'm sure we can do the sequence ourself with the panasonic remote...

dr1394,

What mode were you running in? 480i/480p/720p/1080i? Component/HDMI? What type of display?

Originally posted by dr1394
Close-up of DVE pattern. These are MPEG-2 DCT artifacts.

Ron

Can experienced users please share their thoughts on a good HDMI (in my case HDMI - DVI) cable?

I am considering Pacific Cable.

Thank you.

Pacific Cables and RAM Electronics both make excellent long DVI and HDMI cables. I have a RAM 30' DVI cable (with HDMI adapter on the end of it) from them that works excellent with my S97 to my Sanyo Z2. I also have 30' RAM component cables that are excellent. Remember, with a digital cable like DVI or HDMI, it either works or it doesn't (sparklies). Spending 500.00 on a superduper HDMI cable is not going to improve picture quality over the one that came with the S97, if that is all the length you need.

Close-up of DVE pattern. These are MPEG-2 DCT artifacts.

Mine looks even worse, and I also have ghosting of the blackest bar

So, if this is MPEG-2 DCT artifacts, what exactly does this mean ?

Originally posted by Han Solo
Yes I know this site but I'm sure we can do the sequence ourself with the panasonic remote...

Hmm - noone has the remote codes in a pronto somewhere?

Originally posted by soundman11

I have noticed when I go into the player to 'test' the speakers it does not work, but when watching a movie it is fine.


The 'test' is for multichannel outputs. It will work, if you connect the
5.1 multichannel output of ur dvd player to the 5.1 multichannel
input of ur receiver, via rca cables.

i am already enjoying "hotel california" dvd-audio via multichannel.

Originally posted by psujohny
Mine looks even worse, and I also have ghosting of the blackest bar

So, if this is MPEG-2 DCT artifacts, what exactly does this mean ?
The picture that I posted is from a "reference" decoder, so it's showing the pixel
structure encoded on the disc. It means that those lines are a part of the test
pattern and not necessarily a flaw with your equipment.

The problem with the test pattern is that the edges of the bars are in the
middle of 8x8 pixel blocks. When the DCT of these blocks is calculated during
compression, there will be lot's of coefficients generated to represent the
edge. However, small round-off errors will creep in and cause the lines (that
are just pixels at a level or two off from the rest).

The way to produce a "perfect" bar is to align the bar edges to the 8x8 blocks.

Ron

Originally posted by dr1394
The picture that I posted is from a "reference" decoder, so it's showing the pixel
structure encoded on the disc. It means that those lines are a part of the test
pattern and not necessarily a flaw with your equipment.

The problem with the test pattern is that the edges of the bars are in the
middle of 8x8 pixel blocks. When the DCT of these blocks is calculated during
compression, there will be lot's of coefficients generated to represent the
edge. However, small round-off errors will creep in and cause the lines (that
are just pixels at a level or two off from the rest).

The way to produce a "perfect" bar is to align the bar edges to the 8x8 blocks.

Ron

This would explain why the DVE bars to the left of the greyscale don't show this artifact while the right side does. I've noted that this artifact on my system is intermittant, could the DCT coefficients effect on an image vary slightly from play to play?

Has anyone hooked up a 97 with a Toshiba DLP?

My Tosh 5970 is goig back fast. What a POS!

I'm concerned about MB w/ the DLP sets.

Thanks

Originally posted by svolman
Can experienced users please share their thoughts on a good HDMI (in my case HDMI - DVI) cable?

I am considering Pacific Cable.

Thank you.

Read some previous posts, I have purchased 2 GEFEN HDMI/DVI cables and they work great.
Caboman

I use a 40 foot ram electronics hdmi cable and a ram hdmi to dvi adapter with no problem at all.

Originally posted by Han Solo
Yes I know this site but I'm sure we can do the sequence ourself with the panasonic remote...

Talked to my dealer about this today. He offers the S97 region free in UK, and says he achieves this using a special service remote from panny for dealers only. When I asked him about the possibility of using one of these one shot devices, he said he was not sure if you could correctly capture the sequence in a usable format as he suspected that the sequence was very specific, not just in terms of the buttons / signal sent, but also the duration of the individual signals being sent.

Does any one know of a program that will allow you to capture this level of information? I have a USB-UIRT, so could use it along side my S97 when I use one of these remotes (which I surely will have to purchase as I have too many region 1 DVDs to not get it).

X

Hey guys,

I currently have the Toshiba SD-5970, but I'm thinking about returning it - all the workmanship quality issues others have mentioned here on the forum are true for me. I'm seriously considering putting more money down to get the Panasonic SD-97 but wondering if I'm really going to get a better PQ from it.

I've seen posts where people say PQ is very display dependent - I have a Toshiba 30HF84 (no plasma/LCD/DLP for me yet). The PQ of movies doesn't seem quite what I was expecting with my current set-up, but maybe my expectations are not realistic. Unfortunately, I can't tell if it's the quality of the DVD, the TV or the DVD player (I only watch DVDs with the TV). Since I was going to return the SD-5970 anyway, it seems this would be a good way to try and verify this, but that only works if I should reasonably expect a better PQ from getting the Panasonic. I currently upconvert to the native 1080i of my display, which seems to do a better job than running 480P and doing the upconversion to 1080i in the TV, so I'd probably do the same for the Panasonic.

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance...

avmem

Originally posted by xavk
Talked to my dealer about this today. He offers the S97 region free in UK, and says he achieves this using a special service remote from panny for dealers only. When I asked him about the possibility of using one of these one shot devices, he said he was not sure if you could correctly capture the sequence in a usable format as he suspected that the sequence was very specific, not just in terms of the buttons / signal sent, but also the duration of the individual signals being sent.

Does any one know of a program that will allow you to capture this level of information? I have a USB-UIRT, so could use it along side my S97 when I use one of these remotes (which I surely will have to purchase as I have too many region 1 DVDs to not get it).

X

Although I do not know such a program but I am surely interested interested in the outcome. So please keep us posted.

Does anybody know if this player is already discontinued? You can't even get it on the Panasonic site.

It's here:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=71539&catGroupId=11059&modelNo=DVD-S97S&surfModel=DVD-S97S

Paul

I guess Panasonic US may have copyright issues trying to post the pic he he he!! =)

Well at the Panasonic Canada site it's there.
---------
Mark1_M

Yes the players are still around. If you search for them you will find it.

Originally posted by dm71
The on/off codes listed here in "set 1" do work:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=prontong&db=discrete&br=panasonic&dv=dvdplayer&fc=

Thanks very much dm71. Either I was looking in the wrong place, or those codes weren't there when I originally went looking about a month ago.

dm71,

Thanks! I added this link to the first post.

Paul

I have the s97 hooked up to kv-34xbr910 WEGA direct view. I am using HDMI - DVI/D @ 1080i res. I am happy with the PQ but I really want to know if anyone else has the problem that I have been experiencing.

This only happens when using HDMI at 720p or 1080i:

I detect a faint vertical bar of light scanning across the screen from right to left at regular intervals, like every 1.5 seconds. Its almost looks like a very dim scanner passing quicly across a scanning bed. What do you think this is and how can I get rid of it. I can make it almost undetectable by reducing the the brightness on my display, but then the blacks are crushed together a little more than I would like them to be.

Please help!

I'm trying to determine if I want to go with the Denon DVD-2910 or the Panasonic S97S via HDMI with my Sammy HL-P5674W.

My reason for asking is I bought a Denon 2910 and 2805 last week. Overall, I'd say I'm happy with these noted exceptions:

* The player is slow to load and navigate menus
* I'm not into DVD-Audio or SACD
* The player was expensive

I have a Panasonic S97S on order from a friend at Panasonic for < $200. While I haven't yet seen the Panasonic on my display, I'm concerned about exccessive macroblocking (and realize this is also display dependant.)

The 3x cost factor has me really wondering if I should keep the Denon 2910 and go with the Panny or not. I'd love to hear from anyone who's gone this route already and made a decision.

It also calls into my question to keep my Denon 2805 receiver or not (I really like matched pairs and am quite a brand loyalist :-))

Thoughts and comments very welcome!

What are your thoughts concerning the macroblocking of the 2910? I would expect similar results with the S97. YMMV

Paul

Yes the players are still around. If you search for them you will find it.

Thanks, I found only one place on the net that had them, which is why I thought it might be discontinued. You can't even get them off the Panasonic site.
Mark...

Hey Paul, so far I'd consider the macroblocking on the 2910 to be minor. I've been meaning to grab a copy of Master & Commander (maybe I'll do that this afternoon) to watch the opening scene as it was recommended by someone that its a good place to look for macro blocking.

My only "challenge" right now is once I buy the S97 directly from Panasonic, there's no return option ... and if I don't like it as much then I have an extra $190 DVD player on my hands!

I think my S97 looks fine sitting next to my Denon AVR-5800 :). For less than 200.00, how can you go wrong?!

Originally posted by kevinha
I'm trying to determine if I want to go with the Denon DVD-2910 or the Panasonic S97S via HDMI with my Sammy HL-P5674W.

My reason for asking is I bought a Denon 2910 and 2805 last week. Overall, I'd say I'm happy with these noted exceptions:

* The player is slow to load and navigate menus
* I'm not into DVD-Audio or SACD
* The player was expensive

I have a Panasonic S97S on order from a friend at Panasonic for < $200. While I haven't yet seen the Panasonic on my display, I'm concerned about exccessive macroblocking (and realize this is also display dependant.)

The 3x cost factor has me really wondering if I should keep the Denon 2910 and go with the Panny or not. I'd love to hear from anyone who's gone this route already and made a decision.

It also calls into my question to keep my Denon 2805 receiver or not (I really like matched pairs and am quite a brand loyalist :-))

Thoughts and comments very welcome!

Originally posted by kevinha

My only "challenge" right now is once I buy the S97 directly from Panasonic, there's no return option ... and if I don't like it as much then I have an extra $190 DVD player on my hands!

There is always ebay. I am sure that the Panny S97 would go for a pretty penny right now. You would probably get $250 at least.

I have to agree with LiteUp! I have the Sammy HLP5063W and hardly ever notice macroblocking. But for under $200, if you don't like it, I doubt it would be difficult to ebay and recoup your expenses.

MREDAMON

I have my S97 connected via the HDMI cable it came with to my Sony KD34XS955 and have not seen the problem you are experiencing.

However, in response to some other inquiries about the HDMI cable, I ordered one from RAM Electronics thinking a higher quality cable would improve the PQ but saw virtually no difference between the RAM cable ($30) and the stock Panasonic cable.

Also, Sears is picking up the Sony and replacing it after 3 weeks. The vertical lines are distorted, mainly at the edges. It is very noticable when view pillarbox material or Directv program guides. The tech came out and tried to fix it and finally gave up. I would say the left pillar box varies up to 3/8" from top to bottom and is somewhat wavy. Since not store, not even Sears, stocks this TV (I had to order it from Sears), I have no way to compare this to another model. Has anyone else seen this problem on an HD tube tv?

The gold contacts on the RAM cable transmit larger sized zeros and ones to the TV. It only helps if you have a bigger tv.

LOL!

Originally posted by nothru22
The gold contacts on the RAM cable transmit larger sized zeros and ones to the TV. It only helps if you have a bigger tv.

LiteUp, don't forget about "faster data transfer" he he he!!

Ram has two types of DVI to HDMI cables...regular and high quality....what do u guys say...any difference for a 2M cable? There is certainly a good difference in price :)

has anyone had issues of playback of -/+ R discs on the S97?
thnx for replies

The only reason to spend money on ultra high quality digital cables (HDMI, DVI) is because you have an extra long cable run (longer than the DVI or HDMI spec. allows). For instance, I bought a nice RAM DVI cable because the run to my projector from my components is 30 feet. Other than that, you are wasting your money. Digital cables either work or they don't work. It's not like component cables that are carrying analog signals in which their frequency response can change with poor cables that have a lot of loss/capacitance. With digital all you are transmitting are 1's and 0's, there is no in between....you either get them, or you don't (no picture or sparklies).

I have played +RW disks and they play fine. Therefore assuming +R should not be a problem at all.

Thanks Liteup! I shall buy the normal ones in that case.

No problems at all......all of my movie copies are +R....they all work. I have even played +R DL disks.

Originally posted by MOTOMATTA
has anyone had issues of playback of -/+ R discs on the S97?
thnx for replies

mredamon,

I used the forum search option and found this in the Direct View forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=190083

This thread is giving me a headache.......

bottom line......is this the best player for a Toshiba DLP(HDMI) for under $300????

From what I've read it's either the Panny S97 and potential MB issues and the Sony 975 and possible BTB issues with that price range.

The 975 BTB at HTMI can be corrected by setting the player's brightness and picture controls to -2.

mp906,

Read the first post of this thread. Read the manual. Then go out and have a look at some players -- there's no substitute. Make some notes when viewing, then search the forum or thread for an answer to a specific question. It's easy to get information overload on these forums when trying to find a decision -- especially when trying to find a "best" player -- there's too many conflicting opinions.

Paul

Hi,

I'm using S97 hdmi to Panasonic ptae 700. Both European version.

Real cable 2M HDMI/HDMI - 750p or 1125i and sometimes yuv (real cable 1m).
I've got a dedicate blackened room ;). The screen is 2.56 meters long in a 16/9 ratio. I'm 4 meters from it.


My problem is whenever there is some pictures with mouvements and worst yet some horizontal travelling or paning, the pictures seems to duplicate themselves, provoquing some kind of motion blur really emphasised.

It looks like the first frame of an uneven field was completed with the second frame of another field. Hope I make myself understand... This happens whatever video signal I'm using.

(ex : "punch drunk love" The character's in a supermarket. Travelling on metal cans. In pause everything is great. In play, it is Horrible ! "Chihiro" : whenever you have a fixed shot and a character walks or run, it seems "duplicated". In every battle scene it can turn out to be ot even seeable (Opening of "xmen2"...)

I first thought 1125i hdmi or 567i YUV would solve the problem. It doesn't.

Then assumed this was the NTSC Disc Output or Video Output that was wrong, bu did not seem to solve the problem.

Does anyone has the same problem ?
Am I missing something there ?

How should the transfer mode be at ? Is it a 2:2 or 3:2 pull down issue ?
Should I stick everything in the garbage and go to a theater ? (Just kididng there.)

Thank you for your help.

Originally posted by FZ1977
Hi,

My problem is whenever there is some pictures with mouvements and worst yet some horizontal travelling or paning, the pictures seems to duplicate themselves, provoquing some kind of motion blur really emphasised.

It looks like the first frame of an uneven field was completed with the second frame of another field. Hope I make myself understand... This happens whatever video signal I'm using. ....

Does anyone has the same problem ?
Am I missing something there ?

Thank you for your help.

The only time I've seen anything which resembled this, not near as severe as what you seem to be describing though, was when using the 3D-NR (noise filter) at it's maximum setting. I noted earlier in this thread the when this filtered was used I could see a double image on some images during movement.

If you are using this filter turn it off to see if helps.

I also found so many DVI to HDMI cables on eBay such as Monoprice, Lenexpo, STSI etc b/w $15 to $25 shipped. Anyone using them?

I don't typically see terrible, blurry pans. I wonder what display is being used?

I use a Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD. Spec'ed Response Time: 16ms.

Is this with all DVDs? What about video based material? Depending upon the filmed source, scene, and pan rate there is some blurring that can occur that can be seen even in a movie theater.

Paul

I have a ptae 700.

No dnr activated.

All dvds so far. Either YUV and Hdmi display that problem. I'm a little bit helpless now.

Before the s97 I had a pioneer dv444. I used it with rvb and it was the same. I assumed it was from a somewhat poor upscalling from the vp so I bought a dvd player with fl2310 ship. Did nothing to improve the motion issue.

:(

Question : Using Hdmi 720p should bypass the ptae700 (1280*720) upscaller , right ?

Originally posted by mallu2u
I also found so many DVI to HDMI cables on eBay such as Monoprice, Lenexpo, STSI etc b/w $15 to $25 shipped. Anyone using them?

I have bought both PC Cables and Monoprice DVI-HDMI cables. They work well, and I can't tell the difference except the more expensive cable is better shielded (and thicker) and has gold-plated connectors.

Rich: A lot of these vendors also talk about gold connectors? What abt them? Are they any good? And yes, you're right abt shieling difference. big size difference there.

I have the Mono Price regular and gold HDMI connectors. They work great and I saved a lot of money. The fancy brands may look better but I doubt if they work any better. I once had a expensive brand DVI cable that I had
problems with sparkles. The best thing to do is to try the low price cables
If you have no problems save your self some money especially for shorter
runs.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Rich: A lot of these vendors also talk about gold connectors? What abt them? Are they any good? And yes, you're right abt shieling difference. big size difference there.

Gold connectors are electrically better. However, whether this has any effect can be hotly debated,

Also, many DVI and HDMI connectors on devices are not gold-plated, so they could oxidize first.

In short, I do not know.

Originally posted by Rich4av
Gold connectors are electrically better. However, whether this has any effect can be hotly debated,

Also, many DVI and HDMI connectors on devices are not gold-plated, so they could oxidize first.

In short, I do not know.

Gold is electrically less conductive than copper or silver so it depends what it's being applied over. If the base material is copper generally first a nickel plate is applied as a barrier before the gold is applied. This nickel barrier prevents diffusion of the copper into the gold and the entire package would be less conductive than bare copper or silver.

Gold resists oxidizing in air there the contact will stay cleaner for longer which may ultimately provide a less resistive contact than silver or copper over time.

As an EE by training, I've never been a believer in high-end cables, for the most part. Especially for digital interfaces, if a cable meets specs it should be fine.

Now, if you're pushing specs -- e.g., a long DVI cable -- I suppose there's a possibility that a cable made to specs tighter than standard might enable you to run a longer cable.

With analog cables, again, for short lengths shouldn't matter; lower-loss cables might enable you to run longer lengths.

Gold connectors sure look pretty, don't they?

I can see one reason to buy a high-end cable: if it offers a mechanical feature that you need. By this I mean such things as: 1) an easier-to-deal-with connector shell, hold-down screws, etc., if a standard one is tough for you to handle; 2) construction that makes it more flexible -- things like that.

I have a M*nst*r DVI cable that was the only one I could find when I needed it a year and a half ago. I paid a pretty penny for it, but it DOES have easier to deal with hold-down screws than some others I've seen, AND it's way more flexible. Given the number of conductors in a DVI cable, that can be a benefit. I've seen some DVI cables that look really inflexible.

Anyone know the difference between the S97 and the upcoming S77?

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=30963

I just came back from the CES show and asked about the S77. I was told it it the same as the S97 but at a lower price $249 suggested list price.

Looking at the specs it does state that it will play DVD +R disks. The
97 specs do not state this but there is no problem using them. I do hope
they correct the Macroblocking issues. They have taken the price off the
97S on their web site only statating see dealer. It seems like they will
be dumping the 97S soon.

Originally posted by rwestley
It seems like they will
be dumping the 97S soon.

:eek: :eek:

allready ???

I returned S97.
I think they just really pump up price on something that uses chips created for normal consummer applications and hoping for quick sales. It isn't bad player, not at all, but unfortunately this Faroudja with DCDi is more a name than real strong chip now. It produces more artefacts than the scaller and deinterlacer build in my Z2 projector. Yes, there is macroblocking and noise that were not there before. I wasn't looking for it, but had seen it. Yes, I can tweak PJ and player as many people suggest to minimize the artefacts but why do I have to bend to the player? It isn't the last one with HDMI.
Since the S97 doesn't have 480i through HDMI, I can't use the better chip in my projector but are forced to use this consummer grade Faroudja or use Component video - but then what's the point
If S77 can pass 480i I will buy that.

What like:
- good colors
- good details through HDMI, but let's be honest, every other DVI or HDMI player has same amount of details, you can't make more from 720x480
- nice, intuitive remote and fast access
- good sound - I like the compressor and dialog enhancer - I watch in night and this really helps

What I don't like
- No 480i through HDMI. If your screen has better deinterlacer and upconverter which is often the case in more expensive equipment, you are simply downgrading the picture
- for $300 one would expect that they don't use cheap off the shelf chip Faroudja now mass-produces and sells to everyone (that is intended for normal use) but go for better technology that has no macroblocking. But they are here to make money and everything else cost more money.

I was actually looking at Sony 975 which can pass 480i but I read that many people have lockups and some went through 3 players in month, all end up broken. Rrrrrr.
So I am waiting for some better and more reasonable models. Now these are too hot and sells quickly, but much more HDMI and DVI will come soon!

Originally posted by Rich4av
Gold connectors are electrically better. However, whether this has any effect can be hotly debated,

Also, many DVI and HDMI connectors on devices are not gold-plated, so they could oxidize first.

In short, I do not know.

Dissimilar metals in contact can cause their own corrosion over time. It is better to have gold on gold or chrome on chrome but not mix.

Paul

Originally posted by jrock65
Anyone know the difference between the S97 and the upcoming S77?

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=30963

I downloaded the zip file containing enlarged DVD-S77 image from panasonic site but it is corrupt. I found this:

http://gadgets.fosfor.se/index.php?p=34

Hmm, I just ordered the 97S. If I get macroblocking issues then I'll take it back and wait for the S77.

I told myself a few months ago that the DVD-S97 will be my last DVD player before HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, but the DVD-S77 interests me. Instead of being an early buyer, I will wait until I know that the DVD-S77 should replace my 'S97.

What a surprise, the DVD-S77 is coming in April!

I've been looking for a downloadable manual since the announcement and haven't seen one yet. The 'S97 manual was available months before the player went on sale.

Paul

Originally posted by AkaStp
What makes you think the S77 won't have macroblocking issues also?

What makes you think the S77 will have macroblocking issues?

Originally posted by AkaStp
I don't. Not much point getting into a circular argument about it at this time. We'll just have to wait and see. Hope you enjoy your S97 as much as I'm enjoying mine.

What makes you think it's not an oval? :)

So, I've been considering this player since November, following this thread, comparing options, etc. This forum is a tremendous resource, and I'm grateful to all of you for taking the time to post your impressions and provide advice.

The only two major strikes I've found against this player are (1) macroblocking (2) no PAL>NTSC conversion, and some confusion regarding defeating region-coding (I guess purchasing the remote is the only solution for this). As to no. 1, I was concerned about whether my Panasonic 53x54 RPTV would be particularly bad on the macroblocking, as I've read at least a few posts in this forum and HTF describing unacceptable mb with this combo. And this was to be my stop-gap player between now and Blu-ray/HD-DVD.

But now, I don't know... what's the status on this player? Is it about to be discontinued? Are there potentially better HDMI/upscaling players on the near horizon, even possibly from Panasonic?

Rich, This player probably will be discontinued soon. It was not on display at CES. The S77 looks the same. I don't know if the Macroblocking problem has been fixed. I do know that the price will be lower. MSP $249
vs $399 for the 97S.

does anyone know how the upscaling of the panasonic compares to that of the Toshiba RD-XS32?

does anyone know of the quality of the Toshiba RD-XS32 in general? I don't see that the Toshiba uses the Faroudja.

Thanks!

The Toshiba RD-XS52 is the model that upscales. Do not know what it uses for deinterlacinng. In the past Toshiba has used Zoran and Genesis Microchip/Faroudja.

Paul

Has anyone else besides rwestley heard or read that S97 shall be discontinued? Seems strange that a player shall be dropped within 3 months of its launch! I just want someone to confirm what he heard.

I personally don't buy the story that it is being discontinued to price the S77 lower. They could reprice the S97.

I think that many of us reported MB problems to Panasonic. That may have created a support issue. It's easier for them to launch a new player (even if it is the exact same as the S97) with updated firmware than to release revised firmware for the S97. If I remember correctly, Sango did get many updated firmwares for Panasonic DVD players but it happened well after they had been discontinued. Just my 2 cents ;)

It might even be possible that the S77 could use the new chip.

I could not get any information on this at the Show. The price of the
S97 is $299 I made an error even though FYE is listing it at $399. The
S77 is $249.

I just got my Samsung HLP5063W and connected it to my panasonic S97 using HDMI. I've set the HDMI audio and video to "on" in the HDMI settings, but I don't get any audio through the HDMI cable. When I check the HDMI status window, it only has "RGB" in the video portion (I thought there should be more options here too). The Audio option is all blank.
I've called Panasonic, and they say everything is OK. Samsung said I should try to hook my DVD player up to another TV with HDMI to see which one isn't working. Unfortunately - that will be a pain since I'll have to find a place I can hook it up...
Has anyone seen this before? Any ideas appreciated.
Thanks.

The "HDMI status" window does not allow for changes, just information only.

There can be more HDMI colorspace choices, if available in the "HDMI colorspace" choice in the "Picture Menu". Not all displays will allow for all of the choices. Plasmas, for example, are RGB (see page 14 of the manual).

Try setting the "Multi-Remaster" to "off" (see page 9).

Paul

Thanks Paul. The TV type is set to projection. I think that is the correct one for my DLP. The only selection available in the "HDMI Colorspace" is RGB. I think I should see more option than just RGB. If all were available, which one is the best to use?
Multi-remaster is set to off already :(

Originally posted by Rich4av
I personally don't buy the story that it is being discontinued to price the S77 lower. They could reprice the S97.

I think that many of us reported MB problems to Panasonic. That may have created a support issue. It's easier for them to launch a new player (even if it is the exact same as the S97) with updated firmware than to release revised firmware for the S97. If I remember correctly, Sango did get many updated firmwares for Panasonic DVD players but it happened well after they had been discontinued. Just my 2 cents ;)


If they do that then I'll restate what I posted earlier in this thread. We ALL need to complain to Panasonic and demand that they fix this problem since it's obviously a manufacturer's defect covered by the warranty. We should all do this prior the expiration of the warranty: how long is it BTW?

If anything, we might simply be able to swap ours for the new 77 if that model doesn't have the MB issue.

Everyone with an S97 could take it in to an authorized servicer at the same time for warranty work. I think I'm going to do that before my labor warranty runs out (couple of weeks).

I think everyone's warranty at this point should still be fully in force.

Paul

Originally posted by ronanb
The only selection available in the "HDMI Colorspace" is RGB. I think I should see more option than just RGB. ...
Multi-remaster is set to off already :(
it seems that s97 is treating the hdmi connection as "dvi"..bcos
--- it is showing only rgb space
--- there is no audio output

are there some setup options in the samsung for hdmi input ? btw..this is a pure guess. hope it helps.

I also have the Panasonic S97 and HLP5063 combo. There are no options to switch between DVI and HDMI on the HLP. You are either on the DVI input or the HDMI input.

Ronanb, you definately should be able to change the color space though. I use the 4:4:4.

From page 1 of this thread.
Display->Other Settings->Picture Menu->HDMI Color Space: YCbCr 4:4:4

I didn't have to make any changes to the television to make this work, all the changes are on the DVD player. Make sure you don't have the internal mute "on" on the HLP.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Everyone with an S97 could take it in to an authorized servicer at the same time for warranty work. I think I'm going to do that before my labor warranty runs out (couple of weeks).

I think everyone's warranty at this point should still be fully in force.

Paul

for getting the MB issue fixed? How long is the labor warranty?

Thanks iamtarun and bojangling.
Yes I'm pretty sure I have all those settings set correctly. The Samsung people said to unplug all connections except the HDMI and disconnect the power for a few seconds. Maybe it will then detect the HDMI stuff corectly...
I wonder if others have this problem but don't notice it if they use their own sound system instead of the TVs.
Anyway, I'll make sure I have those correct setting and give it a reboot.
Thanks

mallu2u,

I think the labor warranty is 90 days. My thinking is that if enough of the players hit the repair pipeline, Panasonic will have to do *something*. So far three, thoughtful written letters (each) to Genesis Microchip and Panasonic have been ignored.

Sometimes, to get attention, one has to hit 'em in the pocketbook.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
mallu2u,

I think the labor warranty is 90 days. My thinking is that if enough of the players hit the repair pipeline, Panasonic will have to do *something*. So far three, thoughtful written letters (each) to Genesis Microchip and Panasonic have been ignored.

Sometimes, to get attention, one has to hit 'em in the pocketbook.

Paul

What reason do you expect to give for the warrantee work? I kind of like the idea of averyone taking in their S(& at the same time, but if there is no fix yet for macroblocking and i don't even know if one is possible for the problem, what do we expect panasonic to do?

Put focus on it.

A lot of people are complaining about MB. People want firmware updates.

Say: "I have a picture problem with "splotchines" in dim scenes on the TV, my other DVD player doesn't have the problem, please fix it." Keep it simple. Don't even mention Faroudja, MB or whatever.

*Maybe* a fix isn't possible but at least Panasonic will have to address the issue, somehow. Force them to make a determination. We're just speculating on firmware, updates, whatever. It's easy to trash e-mail. It's not so easy for them to trash a bill from an authorized service center. The service center may be contracted, but Panasonic resources will still be used and consulted. If enough players show up (and won't go away) then Panasonic will have to do *something*.

Paul

I just bought the S97. I love everything about it except I'm getting really bad purple banding. I was watching LOTR RTK: EE and it was so bad peoples clothes turned to purple and large armies got possessed by Barney.

What can I do to get rid of this?? Please help....

I like the idea Paul. I shall find out the shop nearest to me and make the call tomorrow. Shall also call Panny support tomorrow. Will provide an update.

If Panasonic is going to pull a quality assurance on this thing, now is the time to strike.

I'm Japanese S97 user. I don't no the support/service policy of Panasonic in North America, but in Japan, My S97 MB issue has been greatly improved by returning to service center and upgrading the firmware. But still seen in some DVD.

Tohoho, could you give us some more information about the firmware upgrade procedure and what it did on your machine. What number firmware do you now have?

I just spoke to panasonic canada who told me that a firmware update will be released to fix the macroblocking problem possibly in a few weeks.

Geez, I don't know. I love my s97 so much that hard to bring it to service. So far, I don't have MB very bad and I enjoy watching movies on this sucker everyday.

I don't have MB very bad either, but if it is to be fixed, without charge, "a few weeks" puts it outside of my labor warranty. So in it goes.

Paul

Due to the bad MB on my display, I am selling my panny on ebay.

If anyone is interested, it is item 5744544663 or you can pm me for a direct link.

Its still a great player and I almost kept it despite the mb. But, the momitsu is performing well for me and I need the money. ;)

Originally posted by Boogie7910
I just bought the S97. I love everything about it except I'm getting really bad purple banding. I was watching LOTR RTK: EE and it was so bad peoples clothes turned to purple and large armies got possessed by Barney.

What can I do to get rid of this?? Please help....

Same problem here. What display do you have? I have a JVC HD-ILA RPTV which seems to have serious low IRE color temp problems. I'm having JVC look at it, but the problem is more pronounced with this DVD player.