is there any difference in the DVI/HDMI output quality between the different versions?No.
I actually feel like the colors aren't as good over DVI as they are over component--faces in HD content seem somewhat paler over DVI--which doesn't make sense to me.I would bet dollars to donuts that your component output is over colour-saturated and that the DVI is accurate. Most DVI-connected equipment defeats the colour and tint controls altogether.

Most inexperienced people like exaggerated colour and contrast with overly blue gamma! That's why retail TV outlets have everything operating in "torch" mode on the display floor. Samsung even has a "demo" mode builtin to their HDTVs that presets everything, balls to the wall.

No.
I would bet dollars to donuts that your component output is over colour-saturated and that the DVI is accurate. Most DVI-connected equipment defeats the colour and tint controls altogether.

Most inexperienced people like exaggerated colour and contrast with overly blue gamma! That's why retail TV outlets have everything operating in "torch" mode on the display floor. Samsung even has a "demo" mode builtin to their HDTVs that presets everything, balls to the wall.
That is a degrading tone. New doesn't mean better. Most calibrators will tell you that you're never quite sure what you get with the new digital connections. I've also heard there isn't a standard color palette with these connections. One thing is certain. Most people using dvi/hdmi say their picture is equal-at-best to component.

It seems that people want to use these new connections because they are new and "they must be better". Most calibrators that I have talked to, still opt for component, especially on analog sets.

That is a degrading tone.Huh? If you were offended by what I wrote in that message, stop reading now and move along to the next message in this thread. Please. I'm serious. I don't want to upset you further with actual, specific facts.
New doesn't mean better.I never mentioned the word "new". The poster is specifically referring to the DCT6412 DVI versus component output.

I am a retired, professional broadcast engineer and professional electronics designer/manufacturer. I have also spent a great deal of time with these boxes and a variety of projectors, displays and RPTVs both personally and as a beta tester for the cable company.

My comment, expressed as a 'bet', is based on my experience: the PQ (including colour saturation) is extremely good on the 9 HD channels I use daily and the unaltered digital signal available through the DVI/HDMI or IEEE 1394 firefire ports is extremely accurate.

Once the broadcast digital signal is converted to analog (for the very first time in its travels) by the Motorola DCT6412 in order to provide component, S-video and composite outputs, noise and artifacts are introduced. And when the user runs these analog cables across the floor/ceiling/etc., past, over and alongside power cables the cables pickup electro-motive noise, hum and impulses which are imposed on the analog signal they carry. Then, when the user plugs these cables into a digital display (DLP, LCD, LCos, plasma), additional ground loop currents are often picked up. And finally, when in the digital display unit, where the analog signals are re-converted back to digital, yet more noise and artifacts are introduced. Note that none of this preceding paragraph applies to a DVI/HDMI or firewire signal.

Finally, the user sees the resulting image and reaches for the picture controls to "fix" the image to their own taste.

My observations are that, where the consumer has an opportunity to adjust the picture controls, it is usually over-saturated colour with clipped whites, crushed blacks and 9500 gamma. Usually they have engaged every "automatic" feature including colour compensation, dynamic edge enhancement, and the sharpness control is set to one extreme or the other- completely "smeared" to mask noise or full on causing image ringing.

When was the last time you critically examined a broadcast image on a professional Conrac monitor (http://www.conrac.us/main.htm)?? If, as I suspect, you have never had that experience I suggest you call a local television station, or even a cable company head-end, and ask to visit their control room to see one. And while you are at it, go into a big-box tv store and look at the settings they have done to every unit on display in order to sell them.

Then you and I will actually have a basis to begin an intelligent conversation.

...The poster is specifically referring to the DCT6412 DVI versus component output.

...Finally, the user sees the resulting image and reaches for the picture controls to "fix" the image to their own taste. ...

My observations are that, where the consumer has an opportunity to adjust the picture controls, it is usually over-saturated colour with clipped whites, crushed blacks and 9500 gamma. Usually they have engaged every "automatic" feature including colour compensation, dynamic edge enhancement, and the sharpness control is set to one extreme or the other- completely "smeared" to mask noise or full on causing image ringing.

Didn't the subject of this debate (rictus) say he had his set calibrated? Does this at all alter your analysis of his perception of the input variables? I think you gotta cut him some sanctimonious slack in light of that.

Didn't the subject of this debate (rictus) say he had his set calibrated?Yes, but we have no knowledge of what that means.

He said he had is TV "calibrated". He didn't say that he had his system calibrated. You can't do a single-ended calibration - you have to include the source device. That includes all of his input devices, the ports and the picture modes they use.

I suspect that his DVD player was the source for the Avia, DVE or THX Optimzer disk. Assuming he "calibrated" the system using a DVI DVD player, did he also "calibrate" the component inputs. We don't know.

Did he use an ISF certified technician, the pimply-faced salesman from Circuit City or do it himself. We don't know.

But I don't know what DVD player he used or the means of calibration. Does the DVD player DVI output PC (0-255) or Studio (16-235) levels? We don't know.

Were the Gains and Offsets in the TV adjusted or were the saturation, brightness and contrast controls in the DVD unit or the TV itself used? We don't know.

We do know that the Moto 6412 puts out "studio" levels (16-235) on its DVI port and there are no user accessible controls to alter that output. The "internal" calibration and linearity of the DVI port is strictly a function of the firmware and the broadcast network standards. Was the DVI output of rictus' Moto 6412 included in the "calibration"? We don't know.

Is the Moto 6412 plugged into the same or the second HDMI input on the Sammy? We don't know.

We also know that the analog sections of the digital Moto box are not its shining points. Were the component outputs of rictus' Moto 6412 included in the "calibration"? We don't know.

As to the Sammy 6168 ... well .... C-NET says:The Samsung does some things extremely well, but its unusual black-level shift is a major performance flaw. After calibration, we found that the set's black level, or brightness of "black," changed when switching inputs or picture modes and even when chapter-skipping forward and backward on DVD movies. The fluctuation was clearly visible on both DVD and HDTV sources, not just on test pattern material. We believe it's caused by the DNIe circuit, which can't switched off at all. The set also doesn't pass information that's darker than "black," which hinders its overall contrast ratio. Incidentally, DNIe also introduces severe edge enhancement in all but the Movie mode.

Overall, this fluctuation really hurts the Samsung's otherwise solid performance when displaying darker scenes. Accurate black level is one of the most important aspects of picture performance for shadow detail in dark scenes, overall contrast ratio, and color saturation. Since it is virtually impossible to keep black level constant on this set, its performance is seriously flawed."

This set also has four picture modes for every input. Which modes on which inputs were "calibrated"?? We don't know. Which modes on which inputs were used for his comparisons between the Moto's component and DVI outputs?? We don't know.

Does this at all alter your analysis of his perception of the input variables? My deep "analysis" was, "I would bet dollars to donuts that your component output is over colour-saturated and that the DVI is accurate."

Do I alter or retract my initial thoughts in view of the above compelling information on the "input variables"? No.

BTW, although it may be moot, none of the "discussion" you refer to was directed to rictus, it was to HD Rookie. Only my first, simple "bet" was directed to rictus.

My observations are that, where the consumer has an opportunity to adjust the picture controls, it is usually over-saturated colour with clipped whites, crushed blacks and 9500 gamma. Usually they have engaged every "automatic" feature including colour compensation, dynamic edge enhancement, and the sharpness control is set to one extreme or the other- completely "smeared" to mask noise or full on causing image ringing.

Well, actually...

(1) Soon after I got the set, I went into the service menu to turn the gamma down, as the default gamma on the Samsung was producing some greenness in shadow areas.

(2) As I mentioned before, I had my set professionally calibrated. This didn't completely solve some issues, like crushed blacks coming off my DVD player, but I suspect that my DVD player doesn't pass BTB. Not sure about the 6412.

(3) Post-calibration, I turned various image enhancement (DNIe) parameters off in the service menu (on all inputs) in order to reduce sharpness, which helped reduce some of the orangey "flatness" that I was seeing in faces, and produced a smoother, more film-like image, which I prefer. Turning off these parameters also had the side effect of slightly reducing the saturation and brightness, which was fine with me.

Edit: to be clear, I saw the same kinds of differences between component and HDMI both before and after I turned the DNIe parameters off.

So I don't think my observations of the component vs. HDMI images are due to my wanting bleeding, oversaturated, ring-noise eye-vomit, thank you very much.

That said, I can certainly believe that the component image is less accurate than the HDMI image, and that I simply prefer it because it happens to be a little warmer and more contrasty (faces look more dimensional to my eye in the component image). And I realize that the reason for this may have nothing to do with the cable box (the calibrator might have made a mistake in copying the parameters between the inputs, for example).

I was merely asking whether anyone else had experienced something similar with their own 6412. Apparently you haven't, which is mildly useful information. But please don't assume that people who don't happen to have your particular technical background completely lack taste as well.

I suspect that his DVD player was the source for the Avia, DVE or THX Optimzer disk. Assuming he "calibrated" the system using a DVI DVD player, did he also "calibrate" the component inputs. We don't know.

The calibrator (SethS) used my DVD player to calibrate one of the HDMI inputs, using his own calibration disk (which he prefers to DVE). He then copied the parameters to the other HDMI input. I'm not sure if he also plugged my DVD player in via component to calibrate the component input, or if he just copied the parameters over as well.

Edit: I'm actually not sure of this--he may have separately calibrated the two HDMI inputs by plugging the DVD player into both of them. He did the calibration several months ago, and I didn't watch him the whole time.

Did he use an ISF certified technician, the pimply-faced salesman from Circuit City or do it himself. We don't know.

SethS is an ISF technician who came highly recommended from AVS Forum. He claims he "wrote the book" on calibrating earlier Samsung models, and that he's one of the main trainers that Samsung recommends for other calibrators.

But I don't know what DVD player he used or the means of calibration. Does the DVD player DVI output PC (0-255) or Studio (16-235) levels? We don't know.

As I mentioned in my last message, I suspected my DVD player doesn't pass BTB, but your quote below about the Samsungs makes me think it's the TV itself that's losing the blacks.

Were the Gains and Offsets in the TV adjusted or were the saturation, brightness and contrast controls in the DVD unit or the TV itself used? We don't know.

Seth kept the user-menu controls on the TV and the DVD at neutral levels, and did all his calibration in the service menu.

Was the DVI output of rictus' Moto 6412 included in the "calibration"? ... Is the Moto 6412 plugged into the same or the second HDMI input on the Sammy? ... Were the component outputs of rictus' Moto 6412 included in the "calibration"? We don't know.

Answered above.

After calibration, we found that the set's black level, or brightness of "black," changed when switching inputs or picture modes and even when chapter-skipping forward and backward on DVD movies. The fluctuation was clearly visible on both DVD and HDTV sources, not just on test pattern material. We believe it's caused by the DNIe circuit, which can't switched off at all. The set also doesn't pass information that's darker than "black," which hinders its overall contrast ratio. Incidentally, DNIe also introduces severe edge enhancement in all but the Movie mode.

As I mentioned in my last message, there's actually a way to turn off many of the DNIe parameters in the service menu. I hadn't heard about the black level issues, though--that's useful information. I wonder if turning off the DNIe parameters might help with this.

This set also has four picture modes for every input. Which modes on which inputs were "calibrated"?? We don't know. Which modes on which inputs were used for his comparisons between the Moto's component and DVI outputs?? We don't know.

SethS calibrated the Standard mode on the Warm1 setting. I don't use any of the other modes or settings.

As I mentioned before, I had my set professionally calibrated.You didn't say "professionally". But how professional of a job was it if they performed the calibration with the DNEi turned on (as one example)? Perhaps you should get your money back!
This didn't completely solve some issues, like crushed blacks coming off my DVD player, but I suspect that my DVD player doesn't pass BTB. Not sure about the 6412.What DVD player are you using? Is it a DVI output with an HDMI adapter or an actual HDMI port?Post-calibration, I turned various image enhancement (DNIe) parameters off in the service menuExcellent move. But why on earth was that not done before the set was calibrated?So I don't think my observations of the component vs. HDMI images are due to my wanting bleeding, oversaturated, ring-noise eye-vomitI don't believe I ever stated that those were your wants. I tried to explain the rationale of the elimination of picture controls on most DVI equipment which was precisely to make it difficult for inexperienced people to ruin the image by wanting bleeding, oversaturated, ring-noise eye-vomit.I simply prefer [component] because it happens to be a little warmer and more contrasty (faces look more dimensional to my eye in the component image).If you are missing those qualities on the DVI signal, then I strongly suspect that the TV input is not properly calibrated for the "studio" levels presented by the Moto box. Properly adjusting the [service menu] Gains and Offsets (as opposed to the contrast and brightness controls which I believe are active on the HMDI inputs on the Sammy) will produce accurate BTB and WTW.don't assume that just because other people don't have your particular technical background, that they completely lack taste as well.Although that assessment wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular, it is an unfortunate truth well-recognized by the TV manufacturers and retailers. Again, confirm that for yourself ... look carefully at the performance and picture settings next time you are in a big box store.

There is a popular saying amongst consumer product managers "One can never underestimate the taste of the buying public."

I simply prefer it because it happens to be a little warmer and more contrasty (faces look more dimensional to my eye in the component image). And I realize that the reason for this may have nothing to do with the cable boxHere is an HDTV image from the DVI port on the Moto 6412. Although this is 854x480 on a 92" projector screen, it ought to meet your above criteria. (click for a full-size photo)

http://www.flying-colors.org/detail.jpg

Tonight Show (HD) - Carrie Underwood - WDIV Detroit HD - Shaw Cable
Motorola DCT-6412P3 - 1080i DVI - Infocus SP4805 - ND2 - 92" Firehawk Screen
Olympus D545 Camera (handheld) (http://www.flying-colors.org/TonightShowHD.JPG)

What DVD player are you using? Is it a DVI output with an HDMI adapter or an actual HDMI port?

HDMI. It's a Toshiba RD-XS52 DVD recorder.

Excellent move. But why on earth was [DNIe not turned off] before the set was calibrated?

You'd have to ask Seth. It's possible he didn't know about those controls, since the 6168 had only been out for a couple of months at the time (mine was one of the first 68 series TVs he had done). Standard early adopter penalty.

If you are missing those qualities on the DVI signal, then I strongly suspect that the TV input is not properly calibrated for the "studio" levels presented by the Moto box. Properly adjusting the [service menu] Gains and Offsets (as opposed to the contrast and brightness controls which I believe are active on the HMDI inputs on the Sammy) will produce accurate BTB and WTW.

I can believe that, since he didn't specifically do anything with the 6412, as far as I know.

I had my set (Sony 70" XBR) professionally calibrated by a very highly regarded ISF technician here in Minnesota. His finding was that after calibration there was basically no difference between using DVI vs. component from my 6412. Since the PQ was slightly better using DVI on my Denon 3910, we ended up using the 6412's component outputs. I went with his professional judgement on this, and am very happy with the results.

I was merely asking whether anyone else had experienced something similar with their own 6412.

Just wanted to give my contribution here...I had a 6412 pII with a Sony GWII (DVI only), and after I purchased a JVC 1080p I got a 6412 pIII with HDMI. On my Sony with the pII, the difference between component and DVI was very noticeable: component had more contrast and more accurate colors, DVI looked completely washed out. I always thought the culprit was the GWII DVI input, which for some reason doesn't keep the digital path intact but still does digital/analogue conversion. On the JVC the difference component-HDMI is very subtle, but I would still say the image looks more dimensional through component; it's so minimal that it may as well be my imagination. :)

component had more contrast and more accurate colors, DVI looked completely washed out.After rethinking the issues discussed over that last day or two, this is EXACTLY the way it would look if you have not adjusted the DVI/HDMI input on your display for "studio" (16-235) levels instead of "PC" (0-255) levels. The Moto 6412 uses "Studio" levels; many displays default to "PC" levels.

The net result is incorrect BTB and WTW video levels on the DVI/HDMI input.

No such adjustment is required on the analog (component) input.

The correct way of adjusting this is to use the RGB Gain and RGB Offset adjustments in the service menu of your display. A lesser desireable method is to use the Contrast and Brightness adjustments because these can also affect other display inputs, unless your display remembers individual settings for each separate input.

Assuming that you don't have the proper test patterns available on your HDTV service to set the WTW and BTB levels, the next best way is to use an Avia, DVE or even the THX Optimizer found on many THX movie DVDs on a DVD player with a DVI output into the same DVI/HDMI port you will normally use for your Moto 6412 DVI connection.

Some enlightened manufacturers will provide the data directly. For example, on the InFocus 72** projectors, set the RGB gains to 66 and the RGB Offsets to 39. On the InFocus 4805 projector, set the RGB gains to 58 and the RGB Offsets to 28.5. On the new InFocus IN7* series, there is a setup switch in the menu for "Studio or PC".

The difference is day and night.

I wonder if someone could please help. I have just switched over to Comcast from DTV after seven years. I'm three weeks in and after 7 visits from Comcast I finally have two 6412's in the house and I'm having guide problems with one of them(so I thought). The "problem" one keeps showing "to be announced" in the guide but mainly on the HD channels (the 700's in the Bay Area), I have tried powering the unit on and off and leaving it for a couple of days at a time but still a lot of "to be announced”. Well after a week I’m still having problems with the guide on my DVR (still the HD channels in the 700’s) so I swapped the two boxes over and the strange thing is that now the “good” box is having the same guide issues. So I guess it’s the cable run that’s the problem not the DVR, I have asked CSR’s to hit the box with a signal a couple of times but still the same problem “to be announced” on some channels. I checked the SNR and its 35.9; could it be a signal quality issue that the guide won’t completely fill? The run in question is the longest one that I have but it is the first spilt from the main line coming into the house. I would be very grateful of any suggestions. Thanks in advance

Call Comcast and have them send a tech out to either replace the offending cable or add an amplifier.

Thanks Bobby C, I have just moved into the house and the run in question is brand new. So even though the picture is fine the signal strength could affect the guide ?

Hi All,

I read back some pages and didn't see anything on this. My apologies if this a dup.

I have a Moto 6412 (2nd actually) and the problems that plagued the first are happening to the 2nd. This is either the original 6412 or phase 1 with the DVI. It all starts with the loss of live TV pause or rewind. The buttons function and it displays the time bar and the commands, but doesn't execute them.
Next comes a bigger issue. I will set up recordings and they will record, I see the red light on. When I go to play them it goes right to the delete/don't option box you normally get when a recorded playback ends. The same is true if I pick restart from the beginning option as apposed to the play/resume button.
Its may also be worth adding that the recorded show displays the length of the recording yet when I delete it after failed attempts to play it back the % of disk space used doesn't decrease. Of course its an intermittent problem. Most recordings are flawless. It doesn't seem to matter what tuner its using, whether I am watching something else or if the recording happens overnight. Any ideas? This is on a Comcast system.

TIA

That problem has happened to me once (luckily, just once) with my P III.

Thanks Bobby C, I have just moved into the house and the run in question is brand new. So even though the picture is fine the signal strength could affect the guide ?

Because the problem stayed when you rolled receivers you have isolated it to that run. Perhaps there is a bad coax connection or the splitter has a defective tap. Maybe the run is exceptionally long. Is the coax RG-6 or is it RG-59. Lot's of maybes here. Comcast can figure it out and fix it.

I want to take some of the files I have recorded on the Moto 6412 III to my laptop to watch on the plane. I have the Firewire drivers installed but cannot see how to find and move the files. Any ideas?

I have the Firewire drivers installed but cannot see how to find and move the files. Any ideas?It's real simple! Whatever is playing on the DVR, whether pre-recorded or "live", is what comes out the firewire port.

You want to transfer a program from the DVR hard drive over the firewire to the PC? Play the program on the DVR. That's it.

I was merely asking whether anyone else had experienced something similar with their own 6412. Apparently you haven't, which is mildly useful information. But please don't assume that people who don't happen to have your particular technical background completely lack taste as well.You make an excellent point. I was a concert soundman for 20+ years. Without exception, every audio engineer I ever worked with who spouted a lot of technical mumbo jumbo, and were considered "experts" in the audio field, were the absolute worst soundmen who couldn't mix a salad let alone a concert. I am sure a similar thing exists in the video field as well.

Odd question about signal strength: I read several posts regarding the 2nd tuner always showing a slightly weaker signal on the diagnostics menu and that was true with 2 of my 6412 pII. I recently swapped one of the STB for a pIII (HDMI) and the 2nd tuner shows actually a better signal than the 1st tuner. Also, the OOB signal is "fair" at 19.2db when my old box (same setp and cables) was "good" at 20.5db
Should I be concerned? I do get a little more audio dropouts than with the previous box, but it's still minimal...

You make an excellent point. I was a concert soundman for 20+ years. Without exception, every audio engineer I ever worked with who spouted a lot of technical mumbo jumbo, and were considered "experts" in the audio field, were the absolute worst soundmen who couldn't mix a salad let alone a concert. I am sure a similar thing exists in the video field as well.I agree completely and was thinking about posting similar thoughts. Each person's brain processes audio and video a bit differently. Theoretical data can be quite useful and instructive, especially for comparing equipment before purchase, but in the final analysis, a person has to choose what sounds and looks best to him.

Odd question about signal strength: I read several posts regarding the 2nd tuner always showing a slightly weaker signal on the diagnostics menu and that was true with 2 of my 6412 pII. I recently swapped one of the STB for a pIII (HDMI) and the 2nd tuner shows actually a better signal than the 1st tuner. Also, the OOB signal is "fair" at 19.2db when my old box (same setp and cables) was "good" at 20.5db
Should I be concerned? I do get a little more audio dropouts than with the previous box, but it's still minimal...
Motorola probably reorgnized the arrangement of splitters in the box. On the P1 and 2, the second tuner seemed to behind 2 or maybe even 3 splitters. It seems like either both are behind one or two, or they added a small RF amp to compensate.

I just got this box (6412/2005) and I hooked up my PS2 to the inputs in the back and nothing is showing up. Do I have a faulty box or am I doing somehting wrong?

I just got this box (6412/2005) and I hooked up my PS2 to the inputs in the back and nothing is showing up. Do I have a faulty box or am I doing somehting wrong?Have you tried turning it off? I could be mistaken, but I believe it only passes through the signal from the rear inputs if it's turned off.

Next comes a bigger issue. I will set up recordings and they will record, I see the red light on. When I go to play them it goes right to the delete/don't option box you normally get when a recorded playback ends. The same is true if I pick restart from the beginning option as apposed to the play/resume button.
Its may also be worth adding that the recorded show displays the length of the recording yet when I delete it after failed attempts to play it back the % of disk space used doesn't decrease. Of course its an intermittent problem. Most recordings are flawless. It doesn't seem to matter what tuner its using, whether I am watching something else or if the recording happens overnight. Any ideas? This is on a Comcast system.Ah hah! Good timing, my friend. I've been having some of those same problems, but didn't really want to search through six thousand posts to see if I was the only one. Now the regulars will yell at you for dragging up an old issue, not me. ;)

Anyway, I have two phase III 6412s. The downstairs one "loses its mind" every few days. The only fix I've found is to unplug it and plug it in again. Then I'm good for another 48 hours or so. The symptoms typically are:

I'll turn on my TV to find that the DVR has "paused" some live TV. For hours, apparently. It's not so much paused, as "frozen". If I try to watch a recorded program, I'll get a black screen, the info bar will indicate that the program is only 59 seconds long, (or some other nonsensical interval) and the box will ask me if I want to delete. (hint: Say no) If I try to watch live TV, I will get some sort of crazy error message talking about how I can't delete an object that it "in use".

So, I yank the power and lose all my guide data. Again. But my recorded content becomes watchable again, as does live TV.

So far my upstairs box has done this about 3 times, my downstairs box, perhaps 25 times. The novelty is starting to wear off. :mad:

I just got this box (6412/2005) and I hooked up my PS2 to the inputs in the back and nothing is showing up.None of the video inputs are active at this time.Have you tried turning it off? I could be mistaken, but I believe it only passes through the signal from the rear inputs if it's turned off.According to some STB experts, it only passes audio from the L+R inputs to the L+R outputs when turned off.

Ah hah! Good timing, my friend. I've been having some of those same problems, but didn't really want to search through six thousand posts to see if I was the only one. Now the regulars will yell at you for dragging up an old issue, not me. ;)

Anyway, I have two phase III 6412s. The downstairs one "loses its mind" every few days. The only fix I've found is to unplug it and plug it in again. Then I'm good for another 48 hours or so. The symptoms typically are:

I'll turn on my TV to find that the DVR has "paused" some live TV. For hours, apparently. It's not so much paused, as "frozen". If I try to watch a recorded program, I'll get a black screen, the info bar will indicate that the program is only 59 seconds long, (or some other nonsensical interval) and the box will ask me if I want to delete. (hint: Say no) If I try to watch live TV, I will get some sort of crazy error message talking about how I can't delete an object that it "in use".

So, I yank the power and lose all my guide data. Again. But my recorded content becomes watchable again, as does live TV.

So far my upstairs box has done this about 3 times, my downstairs box, perhaps 25 times. The novelty is starting to wear off. I occasionaly get a bad recording that shows full length but isn't as well. Just one of the many attractive features of the 6412 I think, but extremely frustrating if it's something I really wanted to watch, and it ends 10 minutes into it.

And only very recently I've had live TV freeze as you describe. It's happened 3 or 4 times in the past couple weeks. Pause/play etc. do nothing, but I can change to a different channel, then change back, and it's fine. Luckily, mine only gets so confused it has to be unplugged to reset it once a month or so.

I occasionaly get a bad recording that shows full length but isn't as well. Just one of the many attractive features of the 6412 I think, but extremely frustrating if it's something I really wanted to watch, and it ends 10 minutes into it.

This has happened to me twice (so far).

Since the first time it happened, I've always been careful to set up a VCR to record important shows as a backup. So the 2nd time I could at least still watch the show.

Shame that I should have to do that much, though. I mean, this type of bug is pretty inforgivable. Makes the DVR completely unreliable.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but both times the shows affected were HD.

This has happened to me twice (so far). Since the first time it happened, I've always been careful to set up a VCR to record important shows as a backup. So the 2nd time I could at least still watch the show. Shame that I should have to do that much, though. I mean, this type of bug is pretty inforgivable. Makes the DVR completely unreliable.

I do the same thing. Also do it when recording to DVD, since VCR tape is still way more reliable than DVD discs.

I need help. I have a 6412p2, firmware 09.19, but can not get dd 5.1 to work. I tried both with a dvi-hdmi cable and optical out to receiver, and component cable with same optical cable to receiver. With the optical cable I can receive stereo sound, and when I go to the menu-setup-audio setup I get the following options:
Default Audio Track
Optimal Stereo
Audio Output (if I select advanced I get these other functions)
Compression
Stereo Output

I downloaded the manual from Motorola's site since Comcast (Atlanta area) didn't provide a copy, and there is supposed to be a Dolby Digital option after Optimal Stereo. If anyone can help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.

I need help. I have a 6412p2, firmware 09.19, but can not get dd 5.1 to work. I tried both with a dvi-hdmi cable and optical out to receiver, and component cable with same optical cable to receiver. With the optical cable I can receive stereo sound, and when I go to the menu-setup-audio setup I get the following options:
Default Audio Track
Optimal Stereo
Audio Output (if I select advanced I get these other functions)
Compression
Stereo Output

I downloaded the manual from Motorola's site since Comcast (Atlanta area) didn't provide a copy, and there is supposed to be a Dolby Digital option after Optimal Stereo. If anyone can help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.

I have the same box and from time to time the tuners "forget" to pass the 5.1. My cure that has worked so far is to simply turn the power off (not unplug) for a few minutes. Then tune to an INHD or other program you know to be 5.1 and you should see the DD5.1 logo in theprogram description. As always, YMMV.

I'll try that tonight, ridgefamus. Thanks!

Milmanias: I should have added 2 thoughts: I leave my 6412 "On" all the time, I also have 9.19. Good luck! Mmmm, 3rd thought: Have you determined your locals have the ability to pass you 5.1? That's why I suggest the test be done with INHD.

I experienced a problem I have not seen before - no video or audio signal present though the display showed the channel/program information banner of the signal that should have been present. Recorded content played fine. I'm not concerned as this is the first time I've seen it and turning the box off and on solved the problem. Just an FYI.

Does this box use DVI-I, DVI-D, or it doesn't matter?

I experienced a problem I have not seen before - no video or audio signal present though the display showed the channel/program information banner of the signal that should have been present. Recorded content played fine. I'm not concerned as this is the first time I've seen it and turning the box off and on solved the problem. Just an FYI.
Well known bug caused by turning it off and on over time. It sometimes fixes itself over time, but the quickest is to simply unplug it for a minute. You will not lose any recordings, although it will take a day or so to get the full program guide reloaded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412#When_turning_the_box_on.2C_it_may_not_display_ a_picture_or_sound._Changing_channels_has_no_effect

How do I reset the remote to the original settings? Right now I have the "mute" key mapped to the 30sec skip, and I want to get the mute function back and map the "lock" key to the 30 sec skip.

Does this box use DVI-I, DVI-D, or it doesn't matter?A DVI connection can be one of three types - DVI-D, DVI-A and DVI-I.

DVI-D is a Digital only connection.

DVI-A is an Analog only connection.

DVI-I contains both the digital and analog connections, (DVI-D + DVI-A) , it's essentially a combination of DVI-D and DVI-A cables within one cable.

The Motorola box is a DVI-D output but, as you can see from the above description, you can use either a DVI-D or a DVI-I cable.

How do I reset the remote to the original settings? Right now I have the "mute" key mapped to the 30sec skip, and I want to get the mute function back and map the "lock" key to the 30 sec skip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412

Go to "How To Restore A Remapped Button."

I need help. I have a 6412p2, firmware 09.19, but can not get dd 5.1 to work. I tried both with a dvi-hdmi cable and optical out to receiver, and component cable with same optical cable to receiver. With the optical cable I can receive stereo sound, and when I go to the menu-setup-audio setup I get the following options:
Default Audio Track
Optimal Stereo
Audio Output (if I select advanced I get these other functions)
Compression
Stereo Output

I downloaded the manual from Motorola's site since Comcast (Atlanta area) didn't provide a copy, and there is supposed to be a Dolby Digital option after Optimal Stereo. If anyone can help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.

I believe there's a "Matrix Stereo" setting or something like that in the audio settings that gives you DD 5.1...why it's called that I have no idea, because it sounds like a simulated surround sound mode.

I'm a long time DTV guy who switched briefly to Comcast back in July 2005. After going crazy with the 6412 (probably phase 1 or 2), I switched back to DTV and my HD tivo(250). Now I hear a Series 3 tivo is coming out in 2006 which will have a cablecard. Any Directv is rolling out their own HD DVR with MPEG4 capability. The more I read in here about the 6412, the more it sounds like things haven't been truly fixed. I'm leaning towards waiting for the TIVO Series 3 to make the switch but I'd like your advice. I am interested in playing jpeg, mp3 and video from my PC so the Series 3 could be the answer. Have any of you heard from Comcast on when the Tivo will be out?

I experienced a problem I have not seen before - no video or audio signal present though the display showed the channel/program information banner of the signal that should have been present. Recorded content played fine. I'm not concerned as this is the first time I've seen it and turning the box off and on solved the problem. Just an FYI.
Happens very frequently to me. The work-around that I use is to start a recorded program and then to go back to live broadcast. This avoids the loss of guide info from unplugging the box.

I do the same thing. Also do it when recording to DVD, since VCR tape is still way more reliable than DVD discs.
My experience with recording and playing back DVDs has been 100 percent fine. (Never made a single coaster other than ones where I screwed up what to record.) How is VCR tape "way more reliable" than that?

Hi guys. I just got this box (phase 2) when I finally upgraded to digital cable. I know that many of you know about Wikipedia's overview of this series of boxes and how he states that when the temp is lowered the box runs with less "bugs". One thing he recommends is that we use a notebook fan cooler hooked up to the USB port in the front or back. I almost burned myself touching the top of this box after running it for 6 hours! Anyway I found a really nice 4 fan notebook cooler that would cover (almost) the whole top of the box to cool it down. I just ordered it and I hope it will help because I found the iGuide sticking(?) on some channels and not showing up on others. Has anyone else used outside fans/cooling sources to cool down the box, and more importantly, does it help? If anyone is interested in looking at the fan for the specs, here it is:

http://store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/tunocowi4fas.html

I've had great success using this unit, a Targus Chill Mat, which I picked up at BB:

http://www.targus.com/us/product_details.asp?sku=PA248U

Runs non-stop off of USB power, and dropped the temperature of the unit from about 135 to right around 100. It's an excellent solution if you're dealing with tight quarters...

I'm sure other models from other companies will work well also... but this one is among the thinnest I've seen.

I've had great success using this unit, a Targus Chill Mat, which I picked up at BB:

http://www.targus.com/us/product_details.asp?sku=PA248U

Runs non-stop off of USB power, and dropped the temperature of the unit from about 135 to right around 100. It's an excellent solution if you're dealing with tight quarters...

I'm sure other models from other companies will work well also... but this one is among the thinnest I've seen.

WOW! That's great to hear that others are using this type of cooling product. The one I found moves more air and costs less, so I'm happy with my choice.

Daylight, did you notice that your cable box works better now or is it just cooler?

Hi guys. I just got this box (phase 2) when I finally upgraded to digital cable. I know that many of you know about Wikipedia's overview of this series of boxes and how he states that when the temp is lowered the box runs with less "bugs". One thing he recommends is that we use a notebook fan cooler hooked up to the USB port in the front or back. I almost burned myself touching the top of this box after running it for 6 hours! Anyway I found a really nice 4 fan notebook cooler that would cover (almost) the whole top of the box to cool it down. I just ordered it and I hope it will help because I found the iGuide sticking(?) on some channels and not showing up on others. Has anyone else used outside fans/cooling sources to cool down the box, and more importantly, does it help? If anyone is interested in looking at the fan for the specs, here it is:

http://store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/tunocowi4fas.html

How load is it ? I see the specs say 24 dBA noise level but not sure how noticable that would be compared to the 6412 itself or other components. Any problem running this thing upside down ? It was designed for a laptop to sit ontop of it and I assume you have it upside down ontop on the 6412.

The cable box does *seem* to work better now, but the 6412 will have bugs no matter what....

Given how loud the 6412 is, I can't imagine that most laptop cooling mats would be any louder. Mine's not...

And, I've experienced no problems with running it upside down...

Well known bug caused by turning it off and on over time. It sometimes fixes itself over time, but the quickest is to simply unplug it for a minute. You will not lose any recordings, although it will take a day or so to get the full program guide reloaded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412#When_turning_the_box_on.2C_it_may_not_display_ a_picture_or_sound._Changing_channels_has_no_effect

OK, but I never turn it off. Only did this time in an attempt to fix the problem.

Happens very frequently to me. The work-around that I use is to start a recorded program and then to go back to live broadcast. This avoids the loss of guide info from unplugging the box.

I tried this but it didn't work for me. Turning the box off and on did, and I didn't lose any guide info.

How load is it ? I see the specs say but not sure how noticable that would be compared to the 6412 itself or other components. Any problem running this thing upside down ? It was designed for a laptop to sit ontop of it and I assume you have it upside down ontop on the 6412.

Well I use a Panny AE900U PJ to display my material and with the fan in high speed mode (which is what I always use) it is rated at 28-29dB. I literally sit 12-18 inches under my PJ and NEVER hear it when it is running. Hope that gives you a point of ref. The funny thing is my cable box seems to make a clicking noise after it warms up and I hear that every single time (have no idea what or where it is coming from inside the box).

I realize that the fan would have to be upside down but since Wikipedia said that it has helped others, I figured ~$19 won't kill me. If it doesn't work, I will use it for its intended purpose--my laptop.

I'm a long time DTV guy who switched briefly to Comcast back in July 2005. After going crazy with the 6412 (probably phase 1 or 2), I switched back to DTV and my HD tivo(250). Now I hear a Series 3 tivo is coming out in 2006 which will have a cablecard. Any Directv is rolling out their own HD DVR with MPEG4 capability. The more I read in here about the 6412, the more it sounds like things haven't been truly fixed. I'm leaning towards waiting for the TIVO Series 3 to make the switch but I'd like your advice. I am interested in playing jpeg, mp3 and video from my PC so the Series 3 could be the answer. Have any of you heard from Comcast on when the Tivo will be out?

Just some things to consider:
Tivo on Comcast at around 2 Half of '06 (from reading around here)
People with problems usually try to find web resources to post and find solutions unlike people with no problems.
I believe Comcast has the most Dual Tuner HDDVR's in the market vs E* and D* (read more users so likely more problems) but I may be wrong and they have been out for a couple o years so you would think they would have ironed out some of the bugs
DirectTV and Dish Network have or are rolling out their HDDVR's but cost ~ 300 upfront just to lease + a montly lease fee (I have the 622 from E*) don't know how much it will cost for D*. With Comcast it's only 10 bucks per month.
Tivo series 3 sounds great but I have read here that is not going to come out until late 2006 or early 2007 and at about 500~800 bucks. If you want to wait fine but you'll miss a year of HDDVR.
The 6412 is not a Tivo but it does fine recording HD in my setup. Major annoyance in my case is queed remote commands, and subpar guide (suppossed to change also 2H of 06 with improved interface)
No HDDVR that I am ware lets you transfer unprotected HD stuff to your PC. If I am worng please correct me
:)

Good points, but the delay in response to the remote makes the 6412 (or 3412) exceptionally frustrating to use.

the delay in response to the remote makes the 6412 exceptionally frustrating to use.Take deep breaths. It will be fixed in an upcoming firmware push. ;)

I have a Comcast Motorola 6412 STB and have just ordered a Panny 50px60u PDP with HDMI inputs. The 6412 has a DVID connection as well as IEEE 1394 but no HDMI . Will I have to purchase an adapter or cables that are HDMI on one end and DVID on the other?

Thanks

Yes.

Or if the 3412 is available in your area exchange the 6412 for a 3412. The 3412 has HDMI.

Thanks for the info.

But the 3412 probably (I don't really know for sure) has the same HDMI bugs as the 6412 Phase III with HDMI. He's better off with an earlier 6412 and a DVI->HDMI cable.

But the 3412 probably (I don't really know for sure) has the same HDMI bugs as the 6412 Phase III with HDMI. He's better off with an earlier 6412 and a DVI->HDMI cable.Those bugs disappeared completely with the 12.22 firmware. But at 12.27 we have entirely new and different bugs!! ;)

Those bugs disappeared completely with the 12.22 firmware. But at 12.27 we have entirely new and different bugs!!I'm still waiting for 12.22. My area is still at 12.18. :(

I believe there's a "Matrix Stereo" setting or something like that in the audio settings that gives you DD 5.1...why it's called that I have no idea, because it sounds like a simulated surround sound mode.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the stereo settings like 'Matrix Stereo' only effects the sound coming out of the Stereo L/R sockets on the back. It does NOT effect any of the digital sound outputs.

I don't/can't use the DVI/HDMI outputs with my setup, but I do use the digital audio output to my Denon AV Amp. I can confirm for a fact that changing any of the stereo settings in setup has ZERO effect on the digital output.

In any case, you can't get DD 5.1 over the Stereo L/R outputs. You HAVE to use one of the 6412 digital outputs to get DD 5.1.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the stereo settings like 'Matrix Stereo' only effects the sound coming out of the Stereo L/R sockets on the back. It does NOT effect any of the digital sound outputs.Correct.

I have been using the 6412 series II for a year. This is the first time that I have had a recording (SD off of BBC America) that displays but has no sound. It also didn't respond to fast forward or 30 second skip when I tried to see if I could get audio somewhere farther in the program. All I could do was delete.

Has anyone had this experience?

I experienced a problem I have not seen before - no video or audio signal present though the display showed the channel/program information banner of the signal that should have been present. Recorded content played fine. I'm not concerned as this is the first time I've seen it and turning the box off and on solved the problem. Just an FYI.

I've had the box for about 1 month with no problems -- until 3 days ago...

Now, every time I turn the box on, I get no picture and no sound. I've seen (and used) the workaround mentioned in this thread -- watch recorded video and then switch back to live TV -- but this is maddening!

Any thoughts on why it's happening all of a sudden? And any more permanent solutions out there!?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

I've had the box for about 1 month with no problems -- until 3 days ago...

Now, every time I turn the box on, I get no picture and no sound. I've seen (and used) the workaround mentioned in this thread -- watch recorded video and then switch back to live TV -- but this is maddening!

Any thoughts on why it's happening all of a sudden? And any more permanent solutions out there!?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

This has happened to me in the past, but now that I leave my box on all the time, its a non-issue. I started leaving it on once I gt my Harmony remote and figured out how to keep the box out of the power-on/off programs.

Why would you turn the box off?

Andrew Wees


I've had the box for about 1 month with no problems -- until 3 days ago...

Now, every time I turn the box on, I get no picture and no sound. I've seen (and used) the workaround mentioned in this thread -- watch recorded video and then switch back to live TV -- but this is maddening!

Any thoughts on why it's happening all of a sudden? And any more permanent solutions out there!?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

I've had the box for about 1 month with no problems -- until 3 days ago...

Now, every time I turn the box on, I get no picture and no sound. I've seen (and used) the workaround mentioned in this thread -- watch recorded video and then switch back to live TV -- but this is maddening!

Any thoughts on why it's happening all of a sudden? And any more permanent solutions out there!?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

It is a issue with the Video & Audio Card power down cycle when you turn the STB to the Standby (off) setting. When you turn the STB back on from standby the Audio & Video cards sometimes do not wake from there sleep mode.....

as already stated, you should just leave the STB on at all times.

Why would you turn the box off?

Andrew Wees

I have to turn the box off some nights because the display is WAAAAAAAY too bright and keeps me from falling asleep. Fortunately, as of yet, I've never had any of the problems associated with turning it off, but I don't have to turn it off every night, and I usually turn it on again as soon as I wake up.

I wonder if someone could please help. I have just switched over to Comcast from DTV after seven years. I'm three weeks in and after 7 visits from Comcast I finally have two 6412's in the house and I'm having guide problems with one of them(so I thought). The "problem" one keeps showing "to be announced" in the guide but mainly on the HD channels (the 700's in the Bay Area), I have tried powering the unit on and off and leaving it for a couple of days at a time but still a lot of "to be announced”. Well after a week I’m still having problems with the guide on my DVR (still the HD channels in the 700’s) so I swapped the two boxes over and the strange thing is that now the “good” box is having the same guide issues. So I guess it’s the cable run that’s the problem not the DVR, I have asked CSR’s to hit the box with a signal a couple of times but still the same problem “to be announced” on some channels. I checked the SNR and its 35.9; could it be a signal quality issue that the guide won’t completely fill? The run in question is the longest one that I have but it is the first spilt from the main line coming into the house. I would be very grateful of any suggestions. Thanks in advance

Update…the tech came around and checked the signal levels and said they were fine, he even removed a splitter witch was feeding 3 runs that we were not using. Also he swapped the 6412 out for a new one, the guide started to come in but still I'm missing chunks of guide data just showing "to be announced" . This is driving me crazy Comcast are sending another tech on Saturday, I'm thinking of maybe asking them to add an amp (just to try) . I would be very grateful of any other suggestions

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Seems like just keeping it on is the only solution -- so that's what i'll do.

Now I just have to re-program the Harmony (a slight pain in the butt, but better than getting a new box).

Noddy,

The guide data can take a long time to fill in after a reboot/swap. How does it look now (12pm CT)? Any better?

-John

Yeah the guide data can take at least a day to fill in totally

I have to turn the box off some nights because the display is WAAAAAAAY too bright and keeps me from falling asleep. Fortunately, as of yet, I've never had any of the problems associated with turning it off, but I don't have to turn it off every night, and I usually turn it on again as soon as I wake up.
To fix it for now, just unplug the box for a minute. It should power up and work as normal, and the full guide info should fill in within 8-24 hours. You will not lose any recordings.

I just added this info to the Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412#When_I_turn_on_my_box.2C_there_is_no_picture_o r_sound.2C_but_the_info_display_works._If_I_play_a_recording .2C_everything_then_works_fine

I have been using the 6412 series II for a year. This is the first time that I have had a recording (SD off of BBC America) that displays but has no sound. It also didn't respond to fast forward or 30 second skip when I tried to see if I could get audio somewhere farther in the program. All I could do was delete.

Has anyone had this experience?

I have had this happen a couple times in the past year. I have read here this cometimes happens when one program overlaps another when set to record. (Think i remember the explanation correctly.) Anyway, twice in a year is no big deal - since neither time was it a "must watch"<G>.

...mike

Noddy,

The guide data can take a long time to fill in after a reboot/swap. How does it look now (12pm CT)? Any better?

-John
Thanks for asking ..the guide is better but Its still only about 80% in and at the moment I only have aprox 2 days of data. I'm thinking at this point (over 48 hours since the tech came) I should have at least a week of data and its still the HD locals that are showing the most "to be announced"

I am new to Comcast and just received my 6412-III on Monday. On Wednesday I discovered the audio bug that I have since seen written about on this thread, i.e. 5.1 audio output dropping to plain old stereo after using any DVR function (pause, jump back, etc.) or playing anything that has been recorded. Also there is absolutely NO 5.1 playback from one of the two tuners. This problem occurs when my box is connected to my tv via HDMI, with audio going to my receiver via optical. I have confirmed, as others have noted, that this problem goes away if I switch the video output to component.

My question is whether it has been confirmed here that this problem affects EVERY 6412-iii, or whether it is intermittent.

I called Comcast last night to discuss possible solutions. This was my very first experience with Comcast's pee-wee's playhouse tech support. Oh my! I got some completely clueless woman from Canada who admitted that she is not very familiar or comfortable with DVRs! (She said "we don't us 'em much in Canada.") She was perfectly nice but had no idea what I was talking about as I patiently tried to explain my problem, and politely tried to ask for a level-2 or 3 tech. The response was that there are no advanced level techs, only a computer that she was sitting in front of which she could use to request a tech to come to my house! She did try to send a reset signal, which obviously did nothing. So now Comcast is sending a human to my house to most likely tell me that every 6412 has this bug and that there is nothing that they can do. What a waste. Why technology companies hire people who know nothing about technology to man these call centers will always be a mystery to me.

I am new to Comcast and just received my 6412-III on Monday. On Wednesday I discovered the audio bug that I have since seen written about on this thread, i.e. 5.1 audio output dropping to plain old stereo after using any DVR function (pause, jump back, etc.) or playing anything that has been recorded. Also there is absolutely NO 5.1 playback from one of the two tuners. This problem occurs when my box is connected to my tv via HDMI, with audio going to my receiver via optical. I have confirmed, as others have noted, that this problem goes away if I switch the video output to component.

My question is whether it has been confirmed here that this problem affects EVERY 6412-iii, or whether it is intermittent.

I called Comcast last night to discuss possible solutions. This was my very first experience with Comcast's pee-wee's playhouse tech support. Oh my! I got some completely clueless woman from Canada who admitted that she is not very familiar or comfortable with DVRs! (She said "we don't us 'em much in Canada.") She was perfectly nice but had no idea what I was talking about as I patiently tried to explain my problem, and politely tried to ask for a level-2 or 3 tech. The response was that there are no advanced level techs, only a computer that she was sitting in front of which she could use to request a tech to come to my house! She did try to send a reset signal, which obviously did nothing. So now Comcast is sending a human to my house to most likely tell me that every 6412 has this bug and that there is nothing that they can do. What a waste. Why technology companies hire people who know nothing about technology to man these call centers will always be a mystery to me.There's nothing the tech coming to the house will be able to do other than charge you for a service call. In fact, you'll be lucky if he understands the problem.

You must be on firmware version 12.18 or earlier. It is not intermittent. All reports are that the problem is fixed in 12.22 or higher. Unfortunately, there is no way to change the firmware on an individual box... it's whatever they send down over the wire from the head end. So you might just try to press them to roll out a newer version. Not that that's worked for me.....

Does anyone know the commands to program the remote control so that I don't have to enter zeros when changing channels? (ie...press 3 instead of 003)

Thanks

Does anyone know the commands to program ... so that I don't have to enter zeros when changing channels? (ie...press 3 instead of 003)MENU
MENU
Select SETUP
Select GUIDE SETUP
Set Channel Entry Behavior to AUTO-TUNE
EXIT

Does anyone know the commands to program the remote control so that I don't have to enter zeros when changing channels? (ie...press 3 instead of 003)

Thanks

Click on the little house in the quick menu

On the main menu, go to Setup

go to guide setup

change your channel entry behaviour to Auto Tune.

MENU
MENU
Select SETUP
Select GUIDE SETUP
Set Channel Entry Behavior to AUTO-TUNE
EXIT


LOL :)

I've seen two unanswered posts about this in other forums, but haven't found anything here. One of the posts referenced the "famous surround switch" and described something similar to what I experienced--recordings on the 6412 P3 that, on playback, had the surround audio on the front channels with center channel dialog at almost inaudible levels.

In my case it was a recording of Law and Order in HD. A week later I recorded an SD movie and the center channel dialog was on on the right along with the surround tracks--nothing on the left front on the center channel.

Other than this the recordings have been problem free.

LOL :)

Wow you are guys are quick with the responses!

I've seen two unanswered posts about this in other forums, but haven't found anything here. One of the posts referenced the "famous surround switch" and described something similar to what I experienced--recordings on the 6412 P3 that, on playback, had the surround audio on the front channels with center channel dialog at almost inaudible levels.

In my case it was a recording of Law and Order in HD. A week later I recorded an SD movie and the center channel dialog was on on the right along with the surround tracks--nothing on the left front on the center channel.

Other than this the recordings have been problem free.

This problem you describe is likely a source issue and not a Comcast or 6412 issue. In Fox's American Idol I have noticed that no audio is cmoing from the center channel but it's mixed with the L&R.

I've seen two unanswered posts about this in other forums, but haven't found anything here. One of the posts referenced the "famous surround switch" and described something similar to what I experienced--recordings on the 6412 P3 that, on playback, had the surround audio on the front channels with center channel dialog at almost inaudible levels.

In my case it was a recording of Law and Order in HD. A week later I recorded an SD movie and the center channel dialog was on on the right along with the surround tracks--nothing on the left front on the center channel.

Other than this the recordings have been problem free.

The DVR only records the signal that is sent from the Head End / Cable Plant.

The DVR only records the signal that is sent from the Head End / Cable Plant.

Thanks. Source problem seems reasonable. I guess the "famous surround switch" from the other forum isn't so famous.

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Seems like just keeping it on is the only solution -- so that's what i'll do.

Now I just have to re-program the Harmony (a slight pain in the butt, but better than getting a new box).


What do you mean leave it turned on? As long as the box is plugged in and the cable feed is connected (no video switch) the box is on.

When you turn it off, its not really off. The I-Guide will continue to load as long as there is power to the box and the cable is connected.

I once had the cable box connected through the aux tuner function on a Sony TV, the I-Guide was always disappearing.

-- Brandy

I go the following reply from my Comcast provider when I emailed them about use of the Firewire port on my Moto 6412 after getting an initial reply that the output was "encrypted."

"I apologize for the confusion, the output is not encrypted, it has special formatting which communicates with the recording device to prevent some copywrited materials from being recorded. The use of the firewire port is allowed, the port is enabled, however we offer no support for using it."

Does this mean I could record HD channels like HBO to a JVC D-VHS deck? or would the "special formatting" prevent these shows from being recorded?

I'm thinking about buying a used JVC D-VHS deck but it would be a waste of money if I could not record premium HD channels to it, which I would then dub to my Sony DVD recorder to get 16:9 480i DVDs. (The 6412 only outputs 16:9 from in 1080i and 720p, which of course can't recorded by any DVD recorder.)

Does this mean I could record HD channels like HBO to a JVC D-VHS deck? or would the "special formatting" prevent these shows from being recorded? ... The 6412 only outputs 16:9 from in 1080i and 720p, which of course can't recorded by any DVD recorder.The output of the IEEE 1394 "Firewire" port on the back of the Motola STBs is in .TS (transport stream) format.

The actual resolution and bandwidth if the .TS file is entirely dependent on the format in which the Moto receives the signal - the Moto does not up/down/sideways covert the signal in any way. Just like the component or DVI/HDMI ports, the output of the Firewire port is the program currently playing on the Moto, whether "live" or prerecorded, but there is no OSD included in the Firewire signal, only the original program. For example:
ABC HD1280x720p 12Mbps 60fps
CBS HD1920x1080i 19Mbps 29.97fps
FMC 704x480 3.8944Mbps 29.97fps
HBO 528x480 2.3452Mbps 29.97fps
HBO HD 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
HDNET 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
History 720x480i 8.5Mbps 29.97fps(after all digital it is now 544x480@25Mbp)
IFC 704x480 3.7944Mbos 29.97fps
MTV2 528x480 1.8868Mbps 29.97fps
NBC HD 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
NFL Net 704x480 15Mbps 29.97fps
Science 528x480 15Mbps 29.97fps
Showtime 528x480 2.3036Mbps 29.97fps
Showtime HD 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
Starz 704x480 1.9248Mbps 29.97fpsThere is a long thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695) dedicated to capturing, scaling and recording this data using Windoze XP. There are also threads dealing with Macintosh and DVHS. Just look!

As to copy protection "encrypting", if a program has the CCI flag set (ie. PBS-HD), there will be no output on the Firewire port at all!!

The output of the IEEE 1394 "Firewire" port on the back of the Motola STBs is in .TS (transport stream) format.

The actual resolution and bandwidth if the .TS file is entirely dependent on the format in which the Moto receives the signal - the Moto does not up/down/sideways covert the signal in any way. Just like the component or DVI/HDMI ports, the output of the Firewire port is the program currently playing on the Moto, whether "live" or prerecorded, but there is no OSD included in the Firewire signal, only the original program. For example:
ABC HD1280x720p 12Mbps 60fps
CBS HD1920x1080i 19Mbps 29.97fps
FMC 704x480 3.8944Mbps 29.97fps
HBO 528x480 2.3452Mbps 29.97fps
HBO HD 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
HDNET 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
History 720x480i 8.5Mbps 29.97fps(after all digital it is now 544x480@25Mbp)
IFC 704x480 3.7944Mbos 29.97fps
MTV2 528x480 1.8868Mbps 29.97fps
NBC HD 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
NFL Net 704x480 15Mbps 29.97fps
Science 528x480 15Mbps 29.97fps
Showtime 528x480 2.3036Mbps 29.97fps
Showtime HD 1920x1080i 25Mbps 29.97fps
Starz 704x480 1.9248Mbps 29.97fpsThere is a long thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695) dedicated to capturing, scaling and recording this data using Windoze XP. There are also threads dealing with Macintosh and DVHS. Just look!

As to copy protection "encrypting", if a program has the CCI flag set (ie. PBS-HD), there will be no output on the Firewire port at all!!

I just got a 6-pin to 6-pin FireWire cord with a new NVidia video card. I'll have to test the function of the 6412 III with these ports. I should be able to pull in the HD programs and make use of my 300GB external HDD. All this time, I'd been assuming that the FireWire outputs weren't working.

On another subject, for the last week, my 6412 III has been receiving analog channels with unprecedented clarity and quality. Today, I discovered what may be the reason for this. Coming out of my outside cable box, there was a new, green groundwire, attached to a plumbing pipe. The old ground wire went into a grounding rod and had been disconnected. Inside the box, a new grounding block was installed. This is a coupling to which the groundwire is attached and allows deflection of static discharge and lightning to the ground. However, there's something else different about it. Instead of the groundwire having metal-to-metal contact with the outer cable connector, there's a thin rubber sleeve between them. Apparently the theory is, that a strong static burst or lightning strike would easily jump this small gap. But, the weak interference signals that plague analog cable reception, wouldn't be able to get past it. The first part about giving better reception works fine and I'm hoping that I never have to find out if the static deflection aspect is also as functional.

No one contacted me when this was done and I'm guessing that they made the rounds to all subscribers, when they went through each area. Too bad this didn't happen earlier, before they are so close to the deadline for ending analog service. The reception is now so good, that the analog picture quality is distinctly better than on the heavily-compressed SD digital channels. That is, except for the continuing picture artifacts on KEZI-Channel 9 in Eugene, which has been bad for many years. On the rare occasions when I still watch their analog channel, I use an outside antenna, for flawless reception.

The reception is now so good, that the analog picture quality is distinctly better than on the heavily-compressed SD digital channels. That is, except for the continuing picture artifacts on KEZI-Channel 9 in Eugene, which has been bad for many years. On the rare occasions when I still watch their analog channel, I use an outside antenna, for flawless reception.
A week ago Comcast in Eugene began the digital simulcasting of its analog channels. If you see the DD logo when in the on-screen display when tuning the analog channels you'll know you're getting the digital simulcast. My daughter has the series 2 or 3 6412s and she's getting the digital simulcast. I have the series 1 and was told that I either need to wait for a firmware update or I should take my 6412 in for replacement in order to get the digital signals.

A week ago Comcast in Eugene began the digital simulcasting of its analog channels. If you see the DD logo when in the on-screen display when tuning the analog channels you'll know you're getting the digital simulcast. My daughter has the series 2 or 3 6412s and she's getting the digital simulcast. I have the series 1 and was told that I either need to wait for a firmware update or I should take my 6412 in for replacement in order to get the digital signals.

The D[D logo is there alright, on the previously analog channels. However, that's only from the 6412 III box. The biggest improvement in picture quality I'm seeing, is on my analog tuners, that take splits from the cable before the box.

Here's what I noticed, after comparing analog and digital versions of the same SD channels: The resolution on the channels from analog tuners was higher than from the digital box. But, the digital channels had less noise and the digital audio was much better. For those with good surround-sound systems, this is most significant. On OPB, with digital audio, Roy Orbison and friends sounded spectacular doing my favorite song, "Blue Bayou". But, Tommy Smother's guitar strings looked thicker and less finely-resolved on digital. Some guy shucking for donations, was wearing a finely-checked tie that had very distinct lines on analog, but were partially blurred on digital. NTSC broadcasts can carry up to 330 lines of horizontal resolution, but I've read and observed, that these SD digital channels are so heavily compressed, that they often show no more than about 250 lines, approximately VHS level.

Which was most pleasing to watch was a tossup. The better analog channels, with good content and low noise, beat out their digital counterparts in general appearance. On the channels where analog quality is weak, the more consistent digital pictures were better. For many people, including myself, this is becoming a moot point, as we seldom watch analog anymore. The only times I do, is on a smaller set in my garage or when I'm out in the field shooting video and during slack periods, I switch on the tuner in a 5-inch monitor I use. However, I'm ready for a couple of those cheapo digital to analog tuner-boxes, that will sustain the option to watch on our old TVs. They are supposed to be spreading those around by the millions, in the next year or so.

This digital revolution is really beginning to piss me off:mad: Those with the purse strings see it as more quantity and I think most agree that they would rather have more quality.

"hey look, I can fit 8 billion songs on this box and it's only 2x3 inches" (the quality totally sucks, but who cares)...The iPod generation rules now I guess:rolleyes:

As with Vinyl vs CD, a good, properly done analog video SD signal should blow away an MPEG compressed one. I have seen this with my own eyes and on some very nice Tektronix test equipment when I used to be in the broadcast TV and radio field.

...for the last week, my 6412 III has been receiving analog channels with unprecedented clarity and quality...

Our 6412 Phase III also is producing very good SD analog channels. I'm curious to learn what type of HDTV, and what 4:3 override settings you're using on the Motorola 6412 Phase III box. When Comcast switched us to this HD box, we turned its 4:3 Override setting to "Off" and SD analog picture quality on a Pioneer 4304 plasma immediately was transformed from unwatchable to beautiful (on most, but not all analog channels). The picture quality is still noticeably lower on some channels (like USA and one local UPN affiliate) but for the most part, they really are impressive. This is with Comcast in Sacramento, CA.

On the original Motorola 6412 we were issued (in March 2005), all 4:3 Override settings produced a fuzzy picture brimming with noise and interference. The picture quality varied wildly from channel to channel. Switching the 6412's 4:3 Override between On/Off/Stretched made no visible difference.

My guess is that the scaler built in to the Pioneer plasma is far better that the technology in the Motorola box, and the Phase III model now correctly passes through the Pio's settings. However, this is speculation on my part. The Pio even has a very good stretch function (called Wide) that doesn't degrade the picture quality to an unacceptable level, and since it's a plasma, we use this all the time when watching the SD channels. Any thoughts on my 4:3 Override settings theory? What TV and settings are you using in Oregon?

The Pio even has a very good stretch function (called Wide) that doesn't degrade the picture quality to an unacceptable level, and since it's a plasma, we use this all the time when watching the SD channels.Yech.

I cannot understand the thinking (or lack thereof) that goes into spending hours tweaking expensive equipment for accurate contrast, colour saturation, gray scale and minimum scaling artifacts and then turning on the 'stretch mode' !! :confused:Any thoughts on my 4:3 Override settings theory?When the 4:3 Overide is "OFF", the 4:3 material is output at the default DVI/YPbPr setting.

The DVI/YPbPr output is usually set to the native resolution of the HDTV channel you are watching so as to allow the scaler in the display do 'single point' scaling. Most HD channels are 1080i (the general exceptions being ABC, FOX and ESPN which are 720p) so that is the common setting on the Moto. When watching sports or 'critical programs' on the 720p channels (like American Idol ;) or the Olympics) it is about six keystrokes to switch the Moto output to 720p.

But as you correctly point out, it somewhat depends on which scaler does the best job. I don't know the resolution of your Pio so I can't comment further.

BTW, I have a twit of a friend who bought a Pio 5060 <?> which I think cost him about $7K. He has hooked up to the Ch 3 RF output of the Telco company's digital TV service which is limited to 4:3 SD. Looks like total crap. He also uses the 'stretch mode' - all the time. He thinks it looks great. :rolleyes:

Cavu,

Why don't you be a good friend and show him how much better YPbPr or HDMI/DVI will look on that thing:D???

Our 6412 Phase III also is producing very good SD analog channels. I'm curious to learn what type of HDTV, and what 4:3 override settings you're using on the Motorola 6412 Phase III box. When Comcast switched us to this HD box, we turned its 4:3 Override setting to "Off" and SD analog picture quality on a Pioneer 4304 plasma immediately was transformed from unwatchable to beautiful (on most, but not all analog channels). The picture quality is still noticeably lower on some channels (like USA and one local UPN affiliate) but for the most part, they really are impressive. This is with Comcast in Sacramento, CA.

On the original Motorola 6412 we were issued (in March 2005), all 4:3 Override settings produced a fuzzy picture brimming with noise and interference. The picture quality varied wildly from channel to channel. Switching the 6412's 4:3 Override between On/Off/Stretched made no visible difference.

My guess is that the scaler built in to the Pioneer plasma is far better that the technology in the Motorola box, and the Phase III model now correctly passes through the Pio's settings. However, this is speculation on my part. The Pio even has a very good stretch function (called Wide) that doesn't degrade the picture quality to an unacceptable level, and since it's a plasma, we use this all the time when watching the SD channels. Any thoughts on my 4:3 Override settings theory? What TV and settings are you using in Oregon?

You probably got switched to Digital Simulcast. What you think are analog channels are in reality digitally encoded "analog" channels. They are encoded in the head-end and broadcast to all digital set-tops.

You probably got switched to Digital Simulcast. What you think are analog channels are in reality digitally encoded "analog" channels. They are encoded in the head-end and broadcast to all digital set-tops.

Well, I guess this coincidentally could have occurred during the same 10-minute time period that it took to disconnect the old DCT-6412 DVR and install the updated Phase III model, but it doesn't seem likely. And Comcast has not announced such a change locally.

To my knowledge, only the local affiliates (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS) and Premium channels are digitally simulcast on channels in the 900 range by Comcast Sacramento, and channels 2-99 still are all analog. I also think this because some of the 2-99 channels still contain some symptoms of analog interference -- lines, fuzziness and noise -- characteristics that just are not discernible on the digital simulcast channels. Also, it's raining pretty steadily today, and the picture quality on several analog channels is noticeably degraded and exhibiting more interference than usual...

Still, this all can be confusing and with the absence of definitive information from Comcast Sacramento, anything's possible.


...A week ago Comcast in Eugene began the digital simulcasting of its analog channels. If you see the DD logo when in the on-screen display when tuning the analog channels you'll know you're getting the digital simulcast...

I have not seen the DD logo on the analog channels in Comcast Sacramento, but to be sure, I'll watch more closely for this and report back...Comcast sure makes things difficult for customers. I guess someone there thinks "If we keep them guessing, they'll never really know which promised services we're not delivering."

Yech....I cannot understand the thinking (or lack thereof) that goes into spending hours tweaking expensive equipment for accurate contrast, colour saturation, gray scale and minimum scaling artifacts and then turning on the 'stretch mode'...

...But as you correctly point out, it somewhat depends on which scaler does the best job. I don't know the resolution of your Pio so I can't comment further.


Cavu:

Please explain your 'Yech' comment. Do you use a plasma? If so, are you saying you view 4:3 content with black pillar bars showing? I am a pro photographer (and a visual 'purist'), so I also hate stretching the 4:3 picture on the plasma. However, my significant other does not want to risk destroying the display with burn-in, so we've reached a compromise and usually stretch any 4:3 content we watch (which really isn't that much anymore, aside from the evening news, the Daily Show, Monk and Veronica Mars).

The plasma in question is a 1024x768, 43-inch Pioneer.

I checked the manual, but I can't find an answer:

Will it damage or diminish the performance of a 6412 by operating it in a vertical orientation, that is, standing it on end?

Thanks for any authoritative info.

I don't know if this is "authoritative" enough, but I've been using a 6412 standing on the side, vertical, and it has been working flawlessly for over 3 months now.

I checked the manual, but I can't find an answer:

Will it damage or diminish the performance of a 6412 by operating it in a vertical orientation, that is, standing it on end?

Thanks for any authoritative info.

It should lay Flat. It was not designed to be on its side. If you rent from the cable company and do not put it properly and it stops working, you can be held liable. (of couse only if you tell them or a comcast rent a tech comes out to your house! :)

my significant other does not want to risk destroying the display with burn-inBurn-in! Right. Well at least you have a good rationalization that had never occured to me! ;)

I just knew DLP was a better choice and now I have another reason why.

I don't know if this is "authoritative" enough, but I've been using a 6412 standing on the side, vertical, and it has been working flawlessly for over 3 months now.

For me, experience is mucho authoritative. Thanks!

Does anyone know how to get the 6412 to pass the Closed Caption info to my TV so that I can use the TV's CC? (I'm connected via component video).

With my old DirecTV system, I used to be able to play the sound through my receiver, and mute the TV to get both sound and subtitles. I'm really not a fan of the always on or always off CC through the 6412 box.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance

Well, I guess this coincidentally could have occurred during the same 10-minute time period that it took to disconnect the old DCT-6412 DVR and install the updated Phase III model, but it doesn't seem likely. And Comcast has not announced such a change locally.

It actually can happen that quickly though highly unlikely it will be done during day or evening hours. Usually at night.

And Comcast won't announce the switch to DS. At least they didn't do it here in Philadelphia area. It just happened. :D

I've seen a similar problem posted, but there's no solution or explanation I can find (and lord knows Comcast hasn't been helpful).

The problem: recording with my PVR is no longer an option. That's right, my Personal Video RECORDER has ceased doing an integral part of its operations. In the "quick menu" the DVR option is no longer there, and when I record (which it will do only if I actually hit the record button) nothing happens. The list of recorded shows stays unpopulated, although the amount of disk space available does show something is getting written to the hard drive.


Before anyone suggests: I've unplugged and had Comcast "hit" me with a new signal. I've also tried the COUNTERCLOCKWISE/DVR/DVR/DVR/LIVE reset from the diagnostics page (it didn't work). None of that's worked. The only thing I haven't done yet is the factory reset. But I'm willing to give that a try too.

Just for context's sake, I recently made 2 changes. I don't think they have anything to do with the current problem, but just in case: (1) I added an S-video cable so that I can watch TV (with no sound) while listening to the stereo -- this was necessary b/c the receiver passes through to the TV, so when I'm listening to a CD, the S-Video goes directly from the STB to the TV. And (2) I've set my Harmony 659 to leave my STB on all the time b/c my STB did the freeze at 4:20 thing that I've seen posted.

Please Help!?

I've found that by-passing any upshift or conversion in all my DVRs and letting the superior processors in my HDTV do that, results in a much better SD-analog picture. I have a standard-definition DVD/HDD recorder, that has an HDMI output and can upscale to 720p or 1080i. But, by leaving the output on the default position of 480i, gives better onscreen results. I have a JVC 30-inch CRT, that upscales everything to 1080i and does a good job of it. I spent a long time testing many models for their ability to display both good HD and SD and this set was the winner.

As I said earlier, the great improvement in Eugene in my SD channels was on both digital and analog tuners, but was most improved on my analog TVs and VCRs.
Just the simple procedure I described of improving the grounding block configuration, may have been the biggest reason the analog reception improved.

There may be an easy solution to this but I have searched this forum with no success and I'm stumped. My user setting keeps defaulting back to TV Type - 4:3 and DVI/Component output - 480i. I manually change this back to 16:9 and 1080i but it seems to reset back by the next morning. I called this in and they told me to swap out boxes - didn't work. I thought maybe it was resetting from being powered off but it reset again last night and I'm certain it was never powered off. Anyone have ideas on how to permanently save my user settings?

I've seen a similar problem posted, but there's no solution or explanation I can find (and lord knows Comcast hasn't been helpful).

The problem: recording with my PVR is no longer an option. That's right, my Personal Video RECORDER has ceased doing an integral part of its operations. In the "quick menu" the DVR option is no longer there, and when I record (which it will do only if I actually hit the record button) nothing happens. The list of recorded shows stays unpopulated, although the amount of disk space available does show something is getting written to the hard drive.


Before anyone suggests: I've unplugged and had Comcast "hit" me with a new signal. I've also tried the COUNTERCLOCKWISE/DVR/DVR/DVR/LIVE reset from the diagnostics page (it didn't work). None of that's worked. The only thing I haven't done yet is the factory reset. But I'm willing to give that a try too.

Just for context's sake, I recently made 2 changes. I don't think they have anything to do with the current problem, but just in case: (1) I added an S-video cable so that I can watch TV (with no sound) while listening to the stereo -- this was necessary b/c the receiver passes through to the TV, so when I'm listening to a CD, the S-Video goes directly from the STB to the TV. And (2) I've set my Harmony 659 to leave my STB on all the time b/c my STB did the freeze at 4:20 thing that I've seen posted.

Please Help!?

Call Comcast and ask them to redo your cable account. Ask them to make sure the DVR service is activated on the STB listed in your account. After they do that, ask them to re activate your STB. (same as the factory reset)

I've found that by-passing any upshift or conversion in all my DVRs and letting the superior processors in my HDTV do that, results in a much better SD-analog picture.


I don't understand. You have a HD PVR, but you set it to output SD? So you can't watch anything in HD???

I saw several posts about people losing their center speaker sound. I did not see a solution. I have I believe a series 1 6412 and have connected my DVR via optical cable to my stereo. Even on the HD channels I do not get any center channel sound. The only option on my receiver is for stereo reception using only the left and right speakers.

I am also having a problem not getting any sound through my center channel speaker. I have the Motorola 6412 phase 2. I dont think anyone on here knows how to fix it, so I may just swap my box out for another that hopefully works.

I saw several posts about people losing their center speaker sound. I did not see a solution. I have I believe a series 1 6412 and have connected my DVR via optical cable to my stereo. Even on the HD channels I do not get any center channel sound. The only option on my receiver is for stereo reception using only the left and right speakers.

If you do not have back speakers, which I do not know if you do - it sounds as the well known problem with loosing the dolby digital 5.1 output.

This can be solved by removing the power cable for a couple of seconds, or by Power Off - Menu, and activating "Restore all Defaults" in that menu.

If you do not have back speakers, which I do not know if you do - it sounds as the well known problem with loosing the dolby digital 5.1 output.

This can be solved by removing the power cable for a couple of seconds, or by Power Off - Menu, and activating "Restore all Defaults" in that menu.

Be sure to redo all your video settings.

How load is it ? I see the specs say but not sure how noticable that would be compared to the 6412 itself or other components. Any problem running this thing upside down ? It was designed for a laptop to sit ontop of it and I assume you have it upside down ontop on the 6412.

Dozens, and anyone else that was interested in the fan comments I made on page 244 of this thread.

I just got the fan yesterday and hooked it up. I watched about 5-6 hours of tv with the fan running upside down on top of the box. So far I have only had the 6412 for 1 week and have not noticed any problems. I can tell you that my earlier comment on how hot the 6412 gets when running is much hotter than when there is a fan on top of the machine. After my 5-6 hour marathon (I did it for everyone here ;) :D ), I could touch the top of the 6412 and I noticed that it was not hot anymore, but rather just warm! In terms of how much sound the 24dB fan rating translates to in real world terms, I must say that the 6412 is louder than the fan on high speed so it's a non-issue.

I can tell you that my earlier comment on how hot the 6412 gets when running is much hotter than when there is a fan on top of the machine.You anecdotal stories are interesting but what are the actual temperatures with, and without, the fan??

In my equipment rack, with an 80mm external (USB) fan, mine runs at 91F with a historical max (no fan) of 113F and it has never been "Over Temp".

You anecdotal stories are interesting but what are the actual temperatures with, and without, the fan??

In my equipment rack, with an 80mm external (USB) fan, mine runs at 91F with a historical max (no fan) of 113F and it has never been "Over Temp".

I can let you know when I get home and turn the cable box back on. Where do I find out what the actual/max temp is? I would have provided that information had I known where to look for it.

Hello everybody,

I just captured my first video on my motorola dvr and used capdvs. My caoture was alil blurry(just alil). But am i doing something wrong here? i thought the capture was supposed to have a nice result considering im capturing a nice picture when played on my tv.

Where do I find out what the actual/max temp is?From the remote:Power OFF
OK
DOWN (12 times) to "d13"
RIGHT
DOWN
Power ON to escape.

You anecdotal stories are interesting but what are the actual temperatures with, and without, the fan??

In my equipment rack, with an 80mm external (USB) fan, mine runs at 91F with a historical max (no fan) of 113F and it has never been "Over Temp".

Ok, the 6412 has been running now from 7:30pm-2am. As per your directions to get the temp readout, it states:

State: Active
Temp: 120
Max Temp: 144
Over Temp: No
Count: 0

So I guess it's safe to assume the 144 record was probably before I had the fan on the box.

Temp: 120You should run it for the same length of time without your extra fan to see what difference the fan is making.

Just had two 6412's installed yesterday. Is there a way to set the "remote address" for the boxes so that one remote controls one box, and the other remote controls the other box? I've been searching the forums for hours with no luck. Thanks.

Just had two 6412's installed yesterday. Is there a way to set the "remote address" for the boxes so that one remote controls one box, and the other remote controls the other box? I've been searching the forums for hours with no luck. Thanks.

No there isn't. What some do is to place a piece of cardboard in front of the box you don't want to receive the signal. A bit of a pain but there it is. Can you place the boxes in different locations? These remotes are IR instead of UHF so you have to aim the remote at the box to get it to work.

Thanks for the quick response.

Unfortunately, we need to keep the boxes in the same location, as we distribute the signal out to other TVs in the house with a modulator. We've been doing this with two DirectTivo's, and it works well.

Another suggestion to utilize two adjacent 6412 boxes: From the hardware store, purchase a 5x7 inch piece of tin, bind the piece of tin in half at a 90 degred angle, and use it to block the remote signal to one of the boxes. The tin actually blends well with the box, and you can simply slide the tin into place on the shelf that holds the box. You can easily move the tin from one box to the other as required.

Another suggestion to utilize two adjacent 6412 boxes: From the hardware store, purchase a 5x7 inch piece of tin, bind the piece of tin in half at a 90 degred angle, and use it to block the remote signal to one of the boxes. The tin actually blends well with the box, and you can simply slide the tin into place on the shelf that holds the box. You can easily move the tin from one box to the other as required.

Thanks for the suggestions. Since the boxes are in a closet, I think I'll try splicing the IR extender cables with a manual switch, and then just select whichever one we want to feed to the modulator system. Not as easy as the DirecTivo's remote addressing, but it should do for now.

we distribute the signal out to other TVs in the house with a modulator.Yech. That must look great :eek:

I guess you're not interested in getting any HD on those "other" TVs.

Remember that if the box is playing HD material, the RF/composite/S-Video ports will NOT output graphics uniless the box is configured with YPbPr set to 480i. Basically, graphics are only output on the RF/composite/S-Video outputs when the component output is 480i (either locked to 480i, or simply playing SD material.)

Ugh...I forgot all about the DVR's lack of a "28 day rule" until Sopranos came back. HBO is the only channel I record on DVR that will rebroadcast the same episode throughout the week. Have they made no programming changes to this box?

Tried doing a search. On the phase III boxes, if we use HDMI output, are the other outputs live at the same time - like the audio and component?
What we would like to do is run the sound from the music channels w.o. having to turn on the plasma. We would run HDMI to the plasma, and use the audio outputs to run thru the sound system.

Thanks.


...mike

It should lay Flat. It was not designed to be on its side. If you rent from the cable company and do not put it properly and it stops working, you can be held liable. (of couse only if you tell them or a comcast rent a tech comes out to your house! :)

Comcast installed my brother-in-law's 6412 on its side.

Just found out that muting live tv with HDMI will make the HDMI-bug occur with DD 5.1...you have to wait a second for the 5.1 to come back...truly annoying

Yech. That must look great :eek:

I guess you're not interested in getting any HD on those "other" TVs.

No. The modulated signals are just going to a few SD sets, two of which are only 13 inches.

Tried doing a search. On the phase III boxes, if we use HDMI output, are the other outputs live at the same time - like the audio and component?
What we would like to do is run the sound from the music channels w.o. having to turn on the plasma. We would run HDMI to the plasma, and use the audio outputs to run thru the sound system.

Thanks.


...mikeYes, the other outputs are still live.

Ugh...I forgot all about the DVR's lack of a "28 day rule" until Sopranos came back. HBO is the only channel I record on DVR that will rebroadcast the same episode throughout the week. Have they made no programming changes to this box?

What is this "28 Day Rule" you refer to? Just curious

What is this "28 Day Rule" you refer to? Just curious

As in TiVo's 28 day rule. It will not record a repeat episode that has already been recorded. The DVR won't record it again so long as it's still in your play list. As soon as you delete it the next occurence will be recorded. In this case, Sopranos airs a couple times. Once I watched Sunday's episode and deleted it the DVR set the next airing to record.

Hey all. I'm new. What would happen if one were to buy a box straight from Motorola instead of Comcast (or whatever you have in your area)? If you were to buy a brand new box, and plug it in to your setup, would all the features of the box work? what I'm getting at is would the box auto-download everything it had to in order to work, but also let you use the USB, and ethernet ports?
Thanks,
Andrew

Motorola only sales to cable companies.

Andrew Wees




Hey all. I'm new. What would happen if one were to buy a box straight from Motorola instead of Comcast (or whatever you have in your area)? If you were to buy a brand new box, and plug it in to your setup, would all the features of the box work? what I'm getting at is would the box auto-download everything it had to in order to work, but also let you use the USB, and ethernet ports?
Thanks,
Andrew

Hey all. I'm new. What would happen if one were to buy a box straight from Motorola instead of Comcast (or whatever you have in your area)? If you were to buy a brand new box, and plug it in to your setup, would all the features of the box work? what I'm getting at is would the box auto-download everything it had to in order to work, but also let you use the USB, and ethernet ports?
Thanks,
Andrew


I bought my own and tried it. No it will not work. Comcast has to authorize your box to talk to there headend and if you call them to authorize your own box they will tell you they do not allow motorolla boxes that are not from them. This should not be legal what they are doing but they do it anyway.

Motorola only sales to cable companies.I Know this is a "Comcast-specific" thread but, virtually all Canadians own their 6412s, etc., having obtained them from such esteemed "cable companies" as Best Buy, Future Shop, etc.

As long as the "GI" (or "M") number of the STB is provided to the cable company to place into their database, all is OK. It's entirely up to the individual cableco whether or not they will "cooperate". ;)

I Know this is a "Comcast-specific" thread but, virtually all Canadians own their 6412s, etc., having obtained them from such esteemed "cable companies" as Best Buy, Future Shop, etc.

As long as the "GI" (or "M") number of the STB is provided to the cable company to place into their database, all is OK. It's entirely up to the individual cableco whether or not they will "cooperate". Manufacturers distribute products differently in different countries. You won't find them for sale new in the US. Which is fine with me, because if I'd had to pay for this thing, it would have gone back.

if I'd had to pay for this thing, it would have gone back.I believe you are paying for it. ;) They don't give it to you for free.

I believe you are paying for it. They don't give it to you for free.LOL True enough, but at least it's a little at a time. Somehow it makes me feel better knowing I can just dump the thing and stop paying for it when my frustration level with it reaches a high enough point.

Which won't be long if it keeps up with it's latest trick- randomly locking up for a couple minutes at a time during recorded programs. Picture freezes, it won't respond to commands (although it's saving them up), then 1 or 2 minutes later it starts up again.

I know that there are many reports of losing digital sound output from 6412p3 STBs. This is a repeatable, extremely bad bug. If I record a digital channel with 5.1 sound (or even back up on a "live" broadcast), the playback reverts to PCM. Happens every time. I'm using HDMI to the TV and digital out to an amplifier. My 6412 is at 12.18.

Does anyone know for sure if this problem is corrected in later system versions? If so, which?

I just called Comcast and asked for an escalation to discuss this serious issue. Call transferred and disconnected, of course. Typical.

I know that there are many reports of losing digital sound output from 6412p3 STBs. This is a repeatable, extremely bad bug. If I record a digital channel with 5.1 sound (or even back up on a "live" broadcast), the playback reverts to PCM. Happens every time. I'm using HDMI to the TV and digital out to an amplifier. My 6412 is at 12.18.

Does anyone know for sure if this problem is corrected in later system versions? If so, which?

I just called Comcast and asked for an escalation to discuss this serious issue. Call transferred and disconnected, of course. Typical.I believe everyone who has posted after getting any firmware upgrade past 12.18 has said the problem is fixed. Unfortunately I, like you, am stuck at 12.18. Only workaround is to use component instead of HDMI, or wait for your local office to upgrade the firmware. There's nothing else they can do to fix the problem.

I didn't go digital so I could go analog. I know about that "fix", but it's not acceptable.

Thanks for the info about the firmware. If only Comcast management in my area could be fixed as easily.

I didn't go digital so I could go analog. I know about that "fix", but it's not acceptable.

Thanks for the info about the firmware. If only Comcast management in my area could be fixed as easily.I do know how you feel... If I had any real, workable alternatives I'd drop Comcast.

You may be skeptical but I expect that if you power down (remove and replace the power cord) your 6412, most of the slow response problems will disappear. I'm sure that all of you have replaced the unit so are very skeptical but I'm not alone. The following is a post from another user that experiences the same result that I see.

I've had mine for almost a year now. More then any other electronic device I've owned this thing benefits from regular power cycling. I now unplug the thing once a week and haven't had any slowdowns, lock-ups or scrambled images since. FWIW
I expect that the problem is caused by the combination of the following things.

1> Bad packets received by the TV Guide software.
2> Uses I-Guide as the TV Guide interface (Comcast only).
3> Model III.
4> Network area (high number of bad packets in your area).

Prior to powering down my unit, I would have long pauses when switching channels at least 10 times a day. Since I powered it down 6 days ago, I've only had a total of 2 times that it has taken more than 3 seconds to change channels.

Please report the following information so I can send this thread to Comcast.
The following is my results.

Provider: Comcast
Area: Fremont, CA
Model: III
TV Guide: I-Guide
Prior to power down: 10+ long pauses per day
After power down: 2 long pauses in 6 days. On the 7th day, deteriation started. Had long pauses for 1/2 hour period on 7th day. At other times during the 7th day, the flip bar would take a second or two to pop up whereas during the 1st 6 days, the flip bar popped up immediately. Unit still working well on the 8th day, no long pauses but flip bar still intermittently has 1-2 seconds delay.

Ordered a Timex 7 day electronic timer from the internet. When it arrives, I'll install it on the 6412 to automatically power the unit off once a week.

OK

6412 ( not series 3)


divi to hdmi video


standard audio hookup


one tuner works fine audio and video


second tuner video works fine all channels

however audio on second tuner only works on digital channels ( above 120) analog channels no audio on second tuner ( also when recorded)


strange





ideas?


Mike

I ran across a really weird issue this weekend - set up a new Motorola 6412 HD/DVR (from Comcast) to feed component video and digital audio (via coax/SPDIF) into a Sherwood/Newcastle R-771 receiver.

On HD channels, the audio was decoded and played without issue; on SD channels, however, the audio was completely broken up & garbled, and kept dropping out every few seconds (the latter presumably because the receiver realized it couldn't decode the stream and temporarily interrupted its audio output); SD channels were _completely_ unintelligible :(

Hooking up analog audio from the cable box to the receiver, though, and switching the receiver's input to use analog allowed SD channels' audio to play - but the digital out for these channels (mind, HD channels worked w/o issue!) cr*ps out!

To summarize...

1. The problem occurs with all SD channels, regardless of whether a Digital Coax or Optical cable is used

2. "Analog fallback" is not an option - although the receiver supports this, it only defaults to analog if there's no digital signal; and the receiver is receiving at least some digital audio signal on the SD stations (but it's unclear whether the digital audio is corrupted at the source, or whether the receiver itself is for some reason unable to decode it? And if it's the latter, why would HD channels work?)

3. The problem *doesn't* occur on Comcast's music channels (900 and above) ... this is surprising, these channels are "SD" as far as I can tell, can't figure what would be different about the music channels' audio stream v. the typical SD stream?

4. There appears to be no setting on the Moto/comcast 6412 HD/DVR to control the audio output, even though the user manual specifically mentions that the SPDIF supports both DD _and_ PCM.

Has anyone heard of this type of issue?

3. The problem *doesn't* occur on Comcast's music channels (900 and above) ... this is surprising, these channels are "SD" as far as I can tell, can't figure what would be different about the music channels' audio stream v. the typical SD stream?

4. There appears to be no setting on the Moto/comcast 6412 HD/DVR to control the audio output, even though the user manual specifically mentions that the SPDIF supports both DD _and_ PCM.

Has anyone heard of this type of issue?

3. The music channels (900 and above) are digital channels, not analog, so your receiver is cool with that.

4. Have you set your receiver to accept both DIGITAL and PCM? Maybe it doesn't know how to handle the PCM signal over the digital input.

3. The music channels (900 and above) are digital channels, not analog, so your receiver is cool with that.
I assumed - since this is Comcast's digital cable service - that _all_ channels were broadcast digitally ... is that incorrect?

4. Have you set your receiver to accept both DIGITAL and PCM? Maybe it doesn't know how to handle the PCM signal over the digital input.
I'll check the docs ... but I believe by default it should automatically determine whether the source is digital or PCM, and respond accordingly.

I assumed - since this is Comcast's digital cable service - that _all_ channels were broadcast digitally ... is that incorrect?Depends on your area. In most areas, the majority of Comcast's channels have been analog, and only those additional channels added by your "digital" package are indeed transmitted digitally. They are in the process of rolling out digital simulcasts, so they can discontinue the analog service and free up bandwidth, but that's not completed yet. Just happened in my area in the past few weeks.

As for your garbled digital audio, I had a similar problem at first. Turned out to be a bad 6412.

I assumed - since this is Comcast's digital cable service - that _all_ channels were broadcast digitally ... is that incorrect?


I'll check the docs ... but I believe by default it should automatically determine whether the source is digital or PCM, and respond accordingly.

Channels 2-99 in San Francisco are still analog, not digital.

I've a problem with my 6412 that has occurred twice. What happens is the unit begins dropping frames causing jerky video, evident on all channels and especially on high definition channels. It is somewhat subtle and many users might not be quick to notice it. The dropped frames become more noticiable during fast action scenes. The first time it happened I moved the unit to another shelf with 4" of headroom, suspecting a possible heat issue. I unplugged and rebooted and the problem slowly resolved itself over a period of about 24 hours. Now it has happended again.

I'm wondering if others have had this problem. I'm assuming a bad unit and have called Comcast to swap it out, though I wonder if it is with the software.

No happy to have to wait for the cable guy again.

I almost wish I could have my 6208 back. Less capacity and single tuner, but it never gave me a problem for the 2 years I had it.

At this point I wonder if Comcast has given up on implementing the Tivo software.

At this point I wonder if Comcast has given up on implementing the Tivo software.

It is almost done, due to be beta very soon. One Very lucky Small Market will be the ones to test it first, then a large Market will test it.

They have yet to mention the markets however... I do know that it will not be SE, SC PA.....

As for your garbled digital audio, I had a similar problem at first. Turned out to be a bad 6412.
Interesting - ceccacci, was it the same issue, where HD channels' audio played back w/o issue, but SD channels were broken up/garbled?

Interesting - ceccacci, was it the same issue, where HD channels' audio played back w/o issue, but SD channels were broken up/garbled?Not exactly the same, no. Mine seemed to affect all channels, intermittently, but progressively worse. Comcast was quick to blame my receiver, but that did not turn out to be the case. Analog audio was fine.

I've a problem with my 6412 that has occurred twice. What happens is the unit begins dropping frames causing jerky video, evident on all channels and especially on high definition channels. It is somewhat subtle and many users might not be quick to notice it. The dropped frames become more noticiable during fast action scenes. The first time it happened I moved the unit to another shelf with 4" of headroom, suspecting a possible heat issue. I unplugged and rebooted and the problem slowly resolved itself over a period of about 24 hours. Now it has happended again.

I'm wondering if others have had this problem. I'm assuming a bad unit and have called Comcast to swap it out, though I wonder if it is with the software.


I had the same thing happen on my 3412 (installed 3/23) during the Sopranos and a few other shows on HD channels ... even non HD programming like Scrubs on 807.

I've a problem with my 6412 that has occurred twice. What happens is the unit begins dropping frames causing jerky video, evident on all channels and especially on high definition channels. It is somewhat subtle and many users might not be quick to notice it. The dropped frames become more noticiable during fast action scenes. The first time it happened I moved the unit to another shelf with 4" of headroom, suspecting a possible heat issue. I unplugged and rebooted and the problem slowly resolved itself over a period of about 24 hours. Now it has happended again.
I've occasionnally seen something similar. I don't think it's actually the box. Digital signals are constantly being reprocessed multiple times along the way from the broadcaster to your box. All sorts of weird things can happen along the way.

Otherwise, the other possibliity is that the box is busy in the background and occasionally dropping a frame for some reason. It can noticeably be sluggish while the guide is downloading/updating for example.

I noticed the same thing occasionally, last night though it was on all HD channels at the same time. Quite annoying. I've had the 6412 for over 2 years (pII and pIII) and never noticed this before.

I noticed the same thing occasionally, last night though it was on all HD channels at the same time. Quite annoying. I've had the 6412 for over 2 years (pII and pIII) and never noticed this before. I am still on firmware 12.18

It is almost done, due to be beta very soon. One Very lucky Small Market will be the ones to test it first, then a large Market will test it.

They have yet to mention the markets however... I do know that it will not be SE, SC PA.....I wouldn't be surprised if we get it here in the Boston area first, as we usually get most of these things first. AFAIK, the NE/Boston area is Comcast's most afluent market.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get it here in the Boston area first, as we usually get most of these things first. AFAIK, the NE/Boston area is Comcast's most afluent market.
The San Francisco bay area always gets things last, Comcast doesn't like us because we raise such a stink in the local media when the stuff doesn't work or go properly. :D

Remember the TiVo give-away fiasco that went national news for a week? That was because the Comcast DVR rollout didn't go as expected here. :p

The San Francisco bay area always gets things last, Comcast doesn't like us because we raise such a stink in the local media when the stuff doesn't work or go properly. :D

Remember the TiVo give-away fiasco that went national news for a week? That was because the Comcast DVR rollout didn't go as expected here. :p

And you have every right too when you get sub par service....

I've occasionnally seen something similar. I don't think it's actually the box. Digital signals are constantly being reprocessed multiple times along the way from the broadcaster to your box. All sorts of weird things can happen along the way.

Otherwise, the other possibliity is that the box is busy in the background and occasionally dropping a frame for some reason. It can noticeably be sluggish while the guide is downloading/updating for example.

Seems like the box because the 6208 and 5100 boxes I've had never exhibited this behavior. Whether or not the the unit is "busy" in the background, the dropping of frames is still unacceptable and evidence of bad software, firmware, or perhaps design. If there are broadcast problems, which certainly do occurr, these usually manifest themselves as freezes and audio drops, not dropped frames. Again, a reboot causes this issue to slowly resolve itself which is some evidence the box has a problem.

This raises the question of whether Motorola has released a piece of hardware that clearly is defective and incapable of acceptable performance, or whether a software update can solve the dropped frames problem. I really don't know the answer.

Seems like the box because the 6208 and 5100 boxes I've had never exhibited this behavior. Whether or not the the unit is "busy" in the background, the dropping of frames is still unacceptable and evidence of bad software, firmware, or perhaps design. If there are broadcast problems, which certainly do occurr, these usually manifest themselves as freezes and audio drops, not dropped frames. Again, a reboot causes this issue to slowly resolve itself which is some evidence the box has a problem.

This raises the question of whether Motorola has released a piece of hardware that clearly is defective and incapable of acceptable performance, or whether a software update can solve the dropped frames problem. I really don't know the answer.

Both the 5xxx & 620x & the 6208 series all have a different type of CPU & Mem setup then the 6400 & 3400 series.

I have a 6412 on f/w v09.19. I keep finding my Dolby Digital turned off. If I turn the box off and back on it comes back. Is it simply a bad box?

Have the same thing (don't know my FW version). This only started about two weeks ago or so.

For you people with the "hiccup" or dropped frame problem I also experienced it on my DCT6416 (I'm with Cox Cable not Comcast and my box has firmware 12.27). Workaround that works for me is to change output mode from 1080i->480p for about a minute or so and then switch back to 1080i mode. This must be done each time box is rebooted.

Also FYI the DCT6416 (at least 2 boxes I have tried thus far) have a serious problem with SD decoding where the SD digital channels have excessive ghosting around the edges and motion artifacting for moving objects. Reverting back to a DCT6412/III with same firmware the problem is no longer there - so appears to be a defect with DCT6416.

I have a 6412 on f/w v09.19. I keep finding my Dolby Digital turned off. If I turn the box off and back on it comes back. Is it simply a bad box?
This is a known problem. I don't think it is the box, because I have seen this on each 6412 I have gotten from Comcast (I'm on my third one now). Fortunately, it doesn't affect how programs are recorded.

I am happy with the 6412 overall, but a more robust CPU, a 250 GB HDD, and a CC button on the remote would really make it easier to work with.

I have a 6412 on f/w v09.19. I keep finding my Dolby Digital turned off. If I turn the box off and back on it comes back. Is it simply a bad box?

Mine has been doing the same thing. Last time I checked, I was still on FW 9.13. It sucked last night since I had to try to find a time when both shows I was recording was on a commercial break so that I could turn it off. Do you know if you can turn the DVR off and back on withough affecting a recording that is in progress?

Mine has been doing the same thing. Last time I checked, I was still on FW 9.13. It sucked last night since I had to try to find a time when both shows I was recording was on a commercial break so that I could turn it off. Do you know if you can turn the DVR off and back on withough affecting a recording that is in progress?

It will stop recording on both tuners if you try to power the STB down to S/B mode.

it will ask you if you want to continue recording or go ahead and shut down.

It will stop recording on both tuners if you try to power the STB down to S/B mode.

it will ask you if you want to continue recording or go ahead and shut down.

Will it begin recording again when you power it on again?

Will it begin recording again when you power it on again?

I know it will if power is interrupted, but since it asks the question of whether you want to stop recording or not on a regular 'power off', I doubt it. Scanpa might have better scoop on it, though...

-Randy

I know it will if power is interrupted, but since it asks the question of whether you want to stop recording or not on a regular 'power off', I doubt it. Scanpa might have better scoop on it, though...

-Randy

if you cancel the recording durring recording to power down. No.

Well it looks like there's a problem with the 6412 DVR that I picked up yesterday. It will not tune in channels 3 through 24 or so. Channel 2 comes in fine as do all the higher channel numbers. For all of the missing channels I get a "Please Wait - This channel will be available shortly" message. Our previous single tuner DVR displayed these channels fine.

I called Comcast and they said to unplug the cable box for a few seconds. That had no effect. I called again and they said that a service technician will need to check it out in person. She said that she checked the box remotely and it's responding fine. So a service tech will be by on Tuesday.

Is there anything else I can check out on my end before the service tech arrives?

Bob

RobertF -

I am having the SAME exact problem with one of my 6412's. the other one is working fine. What's strange is that this just started happening recently on this box after almost 2 years of working.


It only effects about half of the channels in the lower tier (2-100), like FX.....if i reboot the box while it's on FX the channel will show up, but with breakups, and when i navigate to other channels around it most of them have the same "channel will be available shortly" message. Then if i go back to FX it's gone again.

Strange that it's not happening to my other 6412 (same exact model, phase 1). and i have 2 regular digital cable non-dvr boxes which show those channels just fine.

PS - later tonight I am going to try and switch my two boxes around, see if that has anything to do with it.

since they are identical boxes with the same firmware it doesn't make sense that one is having trouble tuning to those lower-numbered channels and the other one isn't.

Thanks for the feedback. I can still tune the missing channels through the analog signal when I bypass the 6412. So it's annoying but workable.

I was on a waiting list for nearly eight weeks for a dual tuner DVR so I'm hoping the technician can fix it or replace it with a properly functioning unit. I really don't want to wait weeks for another one.

I'll post a follow-up message here after the service call.

Bob

RobertF -

I am having the SAME exact problem with one of my 6412's. the other one is working fine. What's strange is that this just started happening recently on this box after almost 2 years of working.


It only effects about half of the channels in the lower tier (2-100), like FX.....if i reboot the box while it's on FX the channel will show up, but with breakups, and when i navigate to other channels around it most of them have the same "channel will be available shortly" message. Then if i go back to FX it's gone again.

Strange that it's not happening to my other 6412 (same exact model, phase 1). and i have 2 regular digital cable non-dvr boxes which show those channels just fine.

I'll be interested to see what you find.

I double-checked the coaxial connection at the back of the unit to see if that might be a problem. But it was solid.

My set-up is unchanged from the one I used with my single tuner DVR that had no trouble with these lower channels. (Well actually there was one change. I hooked up an optical cable to eventually run into my home theater system but that, I would think, shouldn't make any difference.)

Bob

PS - later tonight I am going to try and switch my two boxes around, see if that has anything to do with it.

since they are identical boxes with the same firmware it doesn't make sense that one is having trouble tuning to those lower-numbered channels and the other one isn't.

I'll be interested to see what you find.

I double-checked the coaxial connection at the back of the unit to see if that might be a problem. But it was solid.

My set-up is unchanged from the one I used with my single tuner DVR that had no trouble with these lower channels. (Well actually there was one change. I hooked up an optical cable to eventually run into my home theater system but that, I would think, shouldn't make any difference.)

Bob

Bob, glad you made it over here. :)

Have you checked the STB diagnostic page to see what signal strengths your getting on both tuners?

with the TV & STB on do the following.

Power off on the stb and press ok/select (within 2 sec.)

Check the OOB, and In Band & Current Ch. selections on the Diagnostic menu.

Thanks for the help and for pointing me in this direction in that other Motorola thread.

No, I haven't checked the signal strengths yet. I didn't even know that was possible. I'll check that and report the results here.

I've also started to read/scan this thread from the beginning. I'm only at page 56 so I'm still in early 2005. :)

Bob

Bob, glad you made it over here. :)

Have you checked the STB diagnostic page to see what signal strengths your getting on both tuners?

with the TV & STB on do the following.

Power off on the stb and press ok/select (within 2 sec.)

Check the OOB, and In Band & Current Ch. selections on the Diagnostic menu.

Good points, but the delay in response to the remote makes the 6412 (or 3412) exceptionally frustrating to use.
Can you elaborate on this? What kind of delay is it ... that is, you hit a button, and the STB doesn't respond for a second or more?

Has anyone experienced an issue where the 6412 doesn't respond to a series of remote control commands ... only to - as long as a minute later - execute all the commands you were trying in rapid succession, almost as if the STB had "buffered" the commands?

I got a download tonight from Comcast on my 6412 (Phase I) from 10:30 to 11 p.m. (interrupting my watching of "Medium" on Lifetime) ... checked my firmware afterward and it was still 9.19 ... anyone know what it was? New software? Still seems the same to me.

Another suggestion to utilize two adjacent 6412 boxes: From the hardware store, purchase a 5x7 inch piece of tin, bind the piece of tin in half at a 90 degred angle, and use it to block the remote signal to one of the boxes. The tin actually blends well with the box, and you can simply slide the tin into place on the shelf that holds the box. You can easily move the tin from one box to the other as required.
Hmmm...would not covering the IR sensor window on one of the boxes with a couple of layers of aluminum foil work just as well, or better (you could seal the side edges to ensure no stray IR gets in there)?

to robert F and others :

tonight i realized my problem might be worse than i thought. it seems to be having problems with dual-tuner recording in addition to not being able to tune to some of the lower-numbered channels. tonight a recording on ShowtimeHD didn't happen because the channel "should be available shortly". but

if i go to the other tuner and go to showtime, it's still not there but rebooting brings the channel back. sounds like my box is on the fritz, although it's strange RobertF seems to have started having the same kind of problem (to an extent) at around the same time i did.

As for your garbled digital audio, I had a similar problem at first. Turned out to be a bad 6412.
An update on the "garbled" audio on SD/analog channels problem - had Comcast swap out the 6412 for another one (curiously, they swapped my current 3rd gen box for a 2nd gen one w/DVI ... not a big deal, as it's using component in my config), and the problem persists. The comcast folks, needless to say, were stumped :rolleyes:

i followed advice up a few posts and tested my signal strength -

i am getting "fair/good" readings of signal/noise - hovering between 17 and 21db. getting "good" on the other number - 25%. i doubt these are "fair" and "good" as the box is stating. i probably have a signal problem, right?

i get the same numbers on my 6412 that has had no problems, though. i have ground loop isolators/filters on the lines/inputs of both 6412's, and removing the one on the problemed receiver MAY have fixed things. these filters have not posed problems in the past but maybe one of them is causing this problem?

Here's a follow-up on my missing lower channels problem.

(As a quick recap, my 6412 tuner displays the "Please Wait" screen on channels 3 through 24 . My single tuner DVR had no problems with these channels. Comcast is sending a service technician out tomorrow.)

Per the helpful instructions above, I did take a look at the built-in diagnostic mode screens.

Here's what I saw:

OOB
SNR 17.7 dB Fair
AGC 31% Fair

In Band
SNR 27.5 dB Poor
AGC 91% Poor

5 second Error Counts:
Uncorrectable: 1 to 2
Correctable: 46377

I did look at the "Current Channel" page but I didn't know what to look for there.

Does this indicate significant signal strength and signal quality problems?

The coaxial feed for my 6412 does first run through a 4-way coaxial splitter. It's a high quality splitter but perhaps that's part of the problem. Reworking the coaxial connections is a bit of a hassle since the splitter is behind an earthquake strapped entertainment center. Translation: I can do it but I'd rather not. :-)

Bob

Here's a follow-up on my missing lower channels problem.

(As a quick recap, my 6412 tuner displays the "Please Wait" screen on channels 3 through 24 . My single tuner DVR had no problems with these channels. Comcast is sending a service technician out tomorrow.)

Per the helpful instructions above, I did take a look at the built-in diagnostic mode screens.

Here's what I saw:

OOB
SNR 17.7 dB Fair
AGC 31% Fair

In Band
SNR 27.5 dB Poor
AGC 91% Poor

5 second Error Counts:
Uncorrectable: 1 to 2
Correctable: 46377

I did look at the "Current Channel" page but I didn't know what to look for there.

Does this indicate significant signal strength and signal quality problems?

The coaxial feed for my 6412 does first run through a 4-way coaxial splitter. It's a high quality splitter but perhaps that's part of the problem. Reworking the coaxial connections is a bit of a hassle since the splitter is behind an earthquake strapped entertainment center. Translation: I can do it but I'd rather not. :-)

Bob

Looks to be too many signal splits on the cable line. The STB requires a very Strong Signal and it is split 3 times inside the box. 1 -- Data (OOB) Tuner, and one to each of the Cable Tuners. So right there your signal has gone down a 3rd.

If you have a 4 way splitter before it, then you have already cut the signal strength 4 times before it even gets to the STB. Make sure the splitter is a Top quality 0 - 1.5 GHZ and is Bi Directional. The STB has to be able to talk back and forth with the Cable Head End Plant to work correctly.

You need to google search for the Motorola Signal Booster

Item -- Motorola Signal Booster (484095-001-00)

This would have to be installed as close to the entry point of your Cable drop from outside. (you want to boost the signal at its strongest. not the noise)

If you can, try to connect the STB Directly to the cable line without the Splitter, see if there is any change in signal strength.

Can you elaborate on this? What kind of delay is it ... that is, you hit a button, and the STB doesn't respond for a second or more?

Has anyone experienced an issue where the 6412 doesn't respond to a series of remote control commands ... only to - as long as a minute later - execute all the commands you were trying in rapid succession, almost as if the STB had "buffered" the commands?

Yes, this is happening more and more frequently... For me it started when the DVR received the firmware 9.19.

Yes, this is happening more and more frequently... For me it started when the DVR received the firmware 9.19.

It's a priority issue with the CPU.

It's a priority issue with the CPU.

Do you know if they are working on a firmware upgrade that will fix this issue? Until then, what can be done to improve this situation (command buffer delay)?

Thanks,
JayMan

Do you know if they are working on a firmware upgrade that will fix this issue? Until then, what can be done to improve this situation (command buffer delay)?

Thanks,
JayMan

a firmware upgrade will not fix it sorry. This fix should be in the soon to be released IGUIDE IPG STB software upgrade.

Hi all,
I'm sure this has been asked many times, but I just had my 6412 box installed today, and the first one they gave me was a phase III, but it was semi-DOA, so the installer switched it out for a phase II. So what's better with the phase III - I can think of USB 2.0, and HDMI for the III versus USB1.1 and DVI for phase II - but is that it? Which has the more robust software? Should I bother driving out to Comcast to switch out the box?

Any and all information would be most welcome!

Jimbob

Hi all,
I'm sure this has been asked many times, but I just had my 6412 box installed today, and the first one they gave me was a phase III, but it was semi-DOA, so the installer switched it out for a phase II. So what's better with the phase III - I can think of USB 2.0, and HDMI for the III versus USB1.1 and DVI for phase II - but is that it? Which has the more robust software? Should I bother driving out to Comcast to switch out the box?

Any and all information would be most welcome!

Jimbob

Same software, but the P2 & P3 use different Firmware.

RobertF -

I am having the SAME exact problem with one of my 6412's. the other one is working fine. What's strange is that this just started happening recently on this box after almost 2 years of working.


It only effects about half of the channels in the lower tier (2-100), like FX.....if i reboot the box while it's on FX the channel will show up, but with breakups, and when i navigate to other channels around it most of them have the same "channel will be available shortly" message. Then if i go back to FX it's gone again.

Strange that it's not happening to my other 6412 (same exact model, phase 1). and i have 2 regular digital cable non-dvr boxes which show those channels just fine.

It could be marginal signals, especially if you have been converted to ADS (analog-digital simulcasting.) Does it happen on both tuners? The second tuner gets a much weaker/noisier signal than the first, so it becomes VERY sensitive to the slightest problem. If possible, try to verify how many splitters are between where the cable comes into your house and the problem box. Verify those splitters are properly rated (5MHz-1000MHz or better) and all connections tight. You may even need to rearrange connections to reduce the number of splitters, or add an RF amp.

Thanks for the help. I just tried different splitter setups with, unfortunately, no improvement. Channels 3 through 24 still display the "Please Wait" message.

But I thought I'd post the diagnostic results for those that might be curious.

4-Way Splitter
OOB
SNR 17.7 dB Fair
AGC 31% Fair

In Band
SNR 27.5 dB Poor
AGC 91% Poor

2-Way Splitter
OOB
SNR 18.8 dB Fair
AGC 23% Good

In Band
SNR 33.4 dB Good
AGC 77% Fair

Inline Connector, No Splitter (I needed to extend the cable to reach the 6412)
OOB
SNR 17.8 Fair
AGC 20% Good

In Band
SNR 34.0 dB Good
AGC 75% Fair

Bob





Looks to be too many signal splits on the cable line. The STB requires a very Strong Signal and it is split 3 times inside the box. 1 -- Data (OOB) Tuner, and one to each of the Cable Tuners. So right there your signal has gone down a 3rd.

If you have a 4 way splitter before it, then you have already cut the signal strength 4 times before it even gets to the STB. Make sure the splitter is a Top quality 0 - 1.5 GHZ and is Bi Directional. The STB has to be able to talk back and forth with the Cable Head End Plant to work correctly.

You need to google search for the Motorola Signal Booster

Item -- Motorola Signal Booster (484095-001-00)

This would have to be installed as close to the entry point of your Cable drop from outside. (you want to boost the signal at its strongest. not the noise)

If you can, try to connect the STB Directly to the cable line without the Splitter, see if there is any change in signal strength.

Same software, but the P2 & P3 use different Firmware.

Thanks, scanpa,
So no reason to upgrade then?

2 more things

The 6412 phase 3 has a extra fan for better cooling and improved analog picture output.

ajwees41













Hi all,
I'm sure this has been asked many times, but I just had my 6412 box installed today, and the first one they gave me was a phase III, but it was semi-DOA, so the installer switched it out for a phase II. So what's better with the phase III - I can think of USB 2.0, and HDMI for the III versus USB1.1 and DVI for phase II - but is that it? Which has the more robust software? Should I bother driving out to Comcast to switch out the box?

Any and all information would be most welcome!

Jimbob

so what are "good" SNR and AGC numbers??? if it says Fair/Good on the indicator should things be ok?

i removed my ground loop isolator and the problem seems to have gone away but the numbers didn't really change at all on the diagnostic screen.

i didn't really need the ground loop isolator, i used to have a ground loop hum and that used to take care the problem but i have since changed the wiring in my theater making the ground loop hum a non-issue, i just kept in on there just in case.

don't know why it was effecting the availability of my channels.

It could be marginal signals, especially if you have been converted to ADS (analog-digital simulcasting.) Does it happen on both tuners? The second tuner gets a much weaker/noisier signal than the first, so it becomes VERY sensitive to the slightest problem. If possible, try to verify how many splitters are between where the cable comes into your house and the problem box. Verify those splitters are properly rated (5MHz-1000MHz or better) and all connections tight. You may even need to rearrange connections to reduce the number of splitters, or add an RF amp.

yes, we have gone to digital simulcast. it was happening on both tuners on the particular box. my other 6412 showed no signs of the problem, and neither did my 2 regular digital cable boxes (non hd/non dvr).

it's such an old house that it's hard to tell how many times it's been split, but removing my ground loop isolator filter i had connected directly to the 6412 seems to have solved the problem. like i said in the above post i really didn't need that filter anymore anyway. i'll monitor the situation for the next few days...seemed to be channels in the 30's and 40's, and Showtime-HD that were causing problems when a recording should have started. it would tune the station but nothing would be there but the "channel available shortly" message.

strangely, though, none of the OOB diagnostic numbers changed when the filter was removed even though it seems to have fixed the problem.

a firmware upgrade will not fix it sorry. This fix should be in the soon to be released IGUIDE IPG STB software upgrade.

Since a firmware upgrade caused the problem, I would have thought that another firmware update could fix the problem.

Any idea when the Iguide IPG STB software will be upgraded? and what will this upgrade include?

Thanks,
JayMan

Is there any consensus as to whether it's best to just leave the 6412 "on" at all times? I saw several mentions of this in the early pages of this thread.

Bob

Is there any consensus as to whether it's best to just leave the 6412 "on" at all times? I saw several mentions of this in the early pages of this thread.

Bob

Yes. And yes. :)

Is there any consensus as to whether it's best to just leave the 6412 "on" at all times? I saw several mentions of this in the early pages of this thread.

Bob

Yes... It is best to leave in "on" at all times....
But sometimes you will need to unplug your 6412, kinda like a reset.

Any idea when the Iguide IPG STB software will be upgraded? and what will this upgrade include?

Thanks,
JayMan

The Comcast Media Center (CMC) and GuideWorks LLC (the Comcast Corp./Gemstar-TV Guide International joint venture) are heading up a major project involving mosaics for a new version of the iGuide IPG.

Using a range of thematic templates (sports, news, kids, etc.), their Video-Rich Navigation (VRN) platform creates hyperlinks between linear TV, video-on-demand, and locally- originated content.

The templates, which are used to create "genre portals," define a series of buttons, which can be displayed as a video thumbnail or as plain text. The audio of each thumbnail is heard only when selected.

The first series from Comcast will offer seven or eight templates, but the screens and how they are used are completely definable, according to CMC Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer Gary Traver.

"We look at this as a service play, not just a technology," Traver says.

Additionally, the platform is being created to support VOD. An Olympics portal, for example, could show three live sporting events, while a fourth provides on- demand athlete profiles.

Support for VRN will accompany the A24 IPG release from Gemstar-TV Guide. That version is expected to emerge from Acadia (Motorola's set-top software integration facility) in mid-to-late July. Comcast also has aims to market the product to other MSOs, according to Leslie Russell, the CMC's vice president, sales and marketing.

Thanks IFLYSWA and JayMan007 for the information on leaving the 6412 turned on at all times. I'll go ahead an leave it on.

And here's an update on our 6412's problem tuning in channels 3 through 24. The Comcast service technician came out today and determined that the box was bad. So he replaced it with another 6412 that he had with him. The new box tunes in all the channels just fine. (I'm glad he had a spare 6412 with him since we waited about eight weeks for the first one.)

He also noted that we had an old style coaxial cable running throughout our home (RG-59?). He said we should upgrade to RG-6 coaxial cable at some point. He said this is something that I could do myself or Comcast could do it.

He also took a look at the splitter mounted in a box on the outside of our home and decided that it should be replaced. He said it looked to be in poor shape and he replaced it on the spot. That was pretty good service since it was pouring raining at the time and he had already completed the service call.

Bob

My SF Bay Area 6412 PIII just got a firmware upgrade to 12.31! It seems to have fixed my biggest problem with the unit: if my HDMI connected TV was turned off, and my S-Video connected TV is on, the guide was extremely sluggish.

How do you determine what version of firmware is being used? Is it in one of the diagnostic menu pages?

Bob

My SF Bay Area 6412 PIII just got a firmware upgrade to 12.31! It seems to have fixed my biggest problem with the unit: if my HDMI connected TV was turned off, and my S-Video connected TV is on, the guide was extremely sluggish.

How do you determine what version of firmware is being used?MENU
MENU
Select SETUP
Select CABLE BOX SETUP
Select SELECT TO DISPLAY
EXIT

HDMI/DD 5.1 bug is fixed with firmware 12.31 in bay area

I got a 6412 from Comcast yesterday. I previously had just a CableCard in my TV, which had a builtin QAM/HD tuner. Now I'm using the component video out on the DVR. I decided to get a DVR because CableCard simply does not support On Demand or interactive programming guide, and other third party DVR's or digital capture cards for my computer can't save encrypted shows like HBO. So we don't have a lot of options other than to roll over and use Comcast equipment.

My wife and I both noticed the degraded quality of the signal when using the 6412 compared to the CableCard. This is particularly noticeable on the analog signals, but also slightly on the digital. On the digital it does not make much difference, but there are some. The colors seem a bit different, and it doesn't seem to do as pristine black blacks anymore - they are slightly more grainy. I doubt this has anything to do with the quality of my component video cables, because with my xbox 360 and DVD player, I use component on the same receiver fed up the same line to the wall mounted TV, and it works great.

On the plus side, the DVR features are very nice (considering we never had it before) and the remote control is designed fairly well. I was able to program it so that channel change, volume change, etc work intelligently among the different components.

However, I have to say it would be nice if we had more competition and choices for the hardware. Say, the cable company mails us all CableCards, which could be used in a myriad of devices. There used to be a time when the telephone company made you use their own phones (which were klunky and heavy enough to be used as deadly weapons).

The 6412 is though a pretty advanced piece of equipment, and I laud Comcast for finally supporting some of the high tech features we all want.

If your TV has firewire you may be able to use something like this with your cablecard:

http://www.hdtoystore.com/product_p/dvr2160.htm

If not, there's also the Sony DHG-HDD250 and 500 that uses cablecards and is an HDTV DVR.

HDMI/DD 5.1 bug is fixed with firmware 12.31 in bay area

Yes, thanks for the heads-up. I had checked the current version just the day before it was upgraded, so I wouldn't have noticed till I checked again who-knows-when.

Have you lost the audio type indication on the info display? I have. No more Dolby logo, no more 5.1 indication. That's bad, but I'll take correct operation if I have to choose.

I'd like to hook up a gamebox to them, but they don't seem to work...

Thanks in advance.

Yes, thanks for the heads-up. I had checked the current version just the day before it was upgraded, so I wouldn't have noticed till I checked again who-knows-when.

Have you lost the audio type indication on the info display? I have. No more Dolby logo, no more 5.1 indication. That's bad, but I'll take correct operation if I have to choose.


My Dolby indicator works on one of the tuners but not the other. If I remember correctly that was the same on the old version. When I am on the tuner without the Dolby indicator my receiver still decodes Dolby, 5.1 or otherwise.

The 6412 is though a pretty advanced piece of equipment, and I laud Comcast for finally supporting some of the high tech features we all want.

Sounds like you are in your honeymoon period :D

Welcome to the thread and to the world of the 6412

Sounds like you are in your honeymoon periodAin't that the truth!! ;)

Ain't that the truth!! ;)

Some of us have been in the honeymoon period for quite some time now... :cool:

-Randy

For those of you who have built-in digital and HD tuners and can compare, have you noticed any picture quality degradation from using the 6412? You can probably only tell on a plasma, on which a bad analog signal is especially hideous. It could do a better job converting the signal to component.

For those of you who have built-in digital and HD tuners and can compare, have you noticed any picture quality degradation from using the 6412? You can probably only tell on a plasma, on which a bad analog signal is especially hideous. It could do a better job converting the signal to component.
I have a Sharp 45" LCD 1920x1080 and have the cable split to the 6412, cable digital tuner, and analog tuner. I also have OTA to my OTA digital tuner. No difference between any of those.

so what are "good" SNR and AGC numbers??? if it says Fair/Good on the indicator should things be ok?

i removed my ground loop isolator and the problem seems to have gone away but the numbers didn't really change at all on the diagnostic screen.

i didn't really need the ground loop isolator, i used to have a ground loop hum and that used to take care the problem but i have since changed the wiring in my theater making the ground loop hum a non-issue, i just kept in on there just in case.

don't know why it was effecting the availability of my channels.


Any third party coaxial devices may not only limit signal strength, but reduce available bandwidth/frequency range.

[Edit]

To clarify:

If you take an extreme example and say that you have a splitter which is a 500MHz splitter in a 860MHz cable system, frequencies above 500MHz will not pass (You'll be missing channels or some services), however the signal levels can still be fine.

hi, i just stumbled across this site while trying to find some info on my 6412 and it looks like this is the right place to ask some questions.
Can the black/gray remote be programed to have the 30 sec skip command or any other cool features.
It has 3 buttons labeled A, B, and C that are shaped triangular,square, and circular, respectively they don't seem to do anything.
Thanks for any info.
-Ryan

Can the black/gray remote be programed to have the 30 sec skip command or any other cool features.If this is the one you are referring to, the DRC800, the answer is NO. The individual buttons cannot be reprogrammed. But you can define additional devices for it. Here is the DRC800 User Guide (http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/drc800/downloads/DRC800_User_Guide.pdf).

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/images/drc800_bigview_1.jpg

hi, i just stumbled across this site while trying to find some info on my 6412 and it looks like this is the right place to ask some questions.
Can the black/gray remote be programed to have the 30 sec skip command or any other cool features.
It has 3 buttons labeled A, B, and C that are shaped triangular,square, and circular, respectively they don't seem to do anything.
Thanks for any info.
-Ryan

Pardon the intrusion by a MSFT guide customer, but it's obvious from the description of the A, B, and C buttons that rks*** is referring to a remote such as this 3-device one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412#Remote_Control_Button_Remapping

The A, B, and C buttons actually have uses for me, and probably for you, in locking channels and paging through the guide listings a day at a time, so they shouldn't be changed.

Actually wareagle, on the non-MSFT comcast guide, the A button is pretty useless, so I remapped it to the 30 sec skip. It's a very conveniently located button for that purpose.

Any third party coaxial devices may not only limit signal strength, but reduce available bandwidth/frequency range.

[Edit]

To clarify:

If you take an extreme example and say that you have a splitter which is a 500MHz splitter in a 860MHz cable system, frequencies above 500MHz will not pass (You'll be missing channels or some services), however the signal levels can still be fine.

thanks for the info.

the "troubled" 6412 is now working perfectly tuning to all stations without the "channel available shortly message" and it must be because i removed that filter.

my other 6412 still has a ground loop filter directly on the coax input but it's still working fine.

Actually wareagle, on the non-MSFT comcast guide, the A button is pretty useless, so I remapped it to the 30 sec skip. It's a very conveniently located button for that purpose.

on the IGUIDE IPG The A Button is used to lock / unlock the current ch., or in the guide to lock / unlock a show Title.

I use it all the time.

yes the one pictured is the one i was referring to. In the user guide these buttons are defined as "these functions are set by your cable provider". However my cable provider (Mediacom) must have not set them to do anything.

Does anyone using the DRC800 have working A, B, or C buttons?
Thanks

I thought that I had solved the problem with the slow response on the 6412. About 3 weeks ago, I discovered if I powered down by unplugging the power to the 6412 every week, the DVR performs well. However, two days ago comcast upgraded the DVR with new firmware and it started slowing down immediately. I powered it down several times but it still runs slow. It is not as bad as when I leave it on for several weeks, but I now get some hesitations within the first day after powering it back up.

For those of you who have built-in digital and HD tuners and can compare, have you noticed any picture quality degradation from using the 6412? You can probably only tell on a plasma, on which a bad analog signal is especially hideous. It could do a better job converting the signal to component.Until yesterday I had a 6200 box with no DVR and the analog reception was noticeably inferior to my Panasonic's built-in tuner (digital SD and HD looked about the same). However yesterday I received a 6412 III and all channels now look fine. This unit has much better analog reception than my old STB. As conformation, I just read on this forum that the III series has improved analog reception over the II series. If your box is older you might try to get the cable company to upgrade it, the difference in analog reception should be instantly apparent (...love the DVR features too).

it's obvious from the description of the A, B, and C buttons that rks*** is referring to a remote such as this 3-device oneIt's obvious??? Huh?

And how is it "obvious" that his question doesn't relate to the pictured remote control?? You know ... the one with the "A, B and C" buttons that are visible in the picture!!

Sorry -- I couldn't (and still can't) see the A, B, and C on those buttons on my display.

Sorry -- I couldn't (and still can't) see the A, B, and C on those buttons on my display.It has 3 buttons labeled A, B, and C that are shaped triangular, square, and circular respectivelyhttp://www.flying-colors.org/drc800_detail.jpg

My 6412 is only displaying HD material at 480p, over a "DVI" connect. Also my VOD picture doesn't fill the whole screen its chopped horizontally & vertically. I called up the semi-knowledgeable csr @ Comcast and she said I needed to reset my 6412 and then changed her tune and said I needed a box with the serial number beginning with the letters "GM", of which mine begins with a "GI". How do I know if my box is a Phase I or a Phase II, I'm assuming Phase III's only have an "HDMI" output no DVI??!?!? Would I be able to get 1080i if I used "component" cables instead?

Also how do I get the picture in picture to work on the bottom of the remote? I hit the on/off button on bottom left to no avail.

My 6412 is only displaying HD material at 480p, over a "DVI" connect. Also my VOD picture doesn't fill the whole screen its chopped horizontally & vertically. I called up the semi-knowledgeable csr @ Comcast and she said I needed to reset my 6412 and then changed her tune and said I needed a box with the serial number beginning with the letters "GM", of which mine begins with a "GI". How do I know if my box is a Phase I or a Phase II, I'm assuming Phase III's only have an "HDMI" output no DVI??!?!? Would I be able to get 1080i if I used "component" cables instead?

Also how do I get the picture in picture to work on the bottom of the remote? I hit the on/off button on bottom left to no avail.

With your remote press CABLE, POWER, MENU. Change your YPbPr output to 1080I. It would seem it is set to 480P. Your 4:3 override would do well at 480P.

My 6412 is only displaying HD material at 480p, over a "DVI" connect.How do you know that and what resolution would you like it to use? What is your display?How do I know if my box is a Phase I or a Phase IIDon't know - forgot - use the search function on this thread..I'm assuming Phase III's only have an "HDMI" output no DVI??!?!?That's correct. If you want DVI you have to use an adapter.Would I be able to get 1080i if I used "component" cables instead?Instead of what? And yes, 1080i is available on both HDMI/DVI and component outputs.how do I get the picture in picture to work on the bottom of the remote?You don't. It's there for decoration only.

Your 4:3 override would do well at 480P.If he is using DVI, and depending on his display, OVERRIDE would be best set to OFF.

:confused: Pardon me if I'm asking an answered question but I'm a newbie here. By the way I really appreciate all the valuable info this forum supplies to us novices.

I have a Panny 37px50u and the infamous Motorola 6412 pIII 12.18 and although I have read through a lot of this enormous thread I don't know if I have seen this answered...at least definitively.

What should I have the box menu settings set to. Right now I have it at 16:9, 1080i and 480i. I notice people suggest setting the 480 to "off" to get a better...at least SD material... picture. When I do that it makes the aspect setting on the TV inoperable. In other words I can't set it to "just" etc. and I have to watch all in 4:3 aspect. I have it hooked up HDMI > HDMI and also Component but on both settings I can't adjust the aspect when set to "off".

Is this a problem caused by the TV or the box. Am i doing something wrong. When it is set to 480i or 480p the aspect becomes operable again. Which one of these if I need to be set on them have people found better. By the way the "Stretch" option looks horrible.

Thanks again for all your help.

If he is using DVI, and depending on his display, OVERRIDE would be best set to OFF.


I'm using a Sammy 30" widescreen 16x9 display.

I notice people suggest setting the 480 to "off" to get a better...at least SD material... picture. When I do that it makes the aspect setting on the TV inoperable. In other words I can't set it to "just" etc. and I have to watch all in 4:3 aspect.That's exactly correct. 4:3 is displayed as (Gosh!!) 4:3 just as it was intended.

If god wanted people to be 4-ft tall and 3-ft wide he would have made them that way. (Oh wait ... the US population is beginning to look a little like .... nevermind!)

[RANT ON]

I never understand why people spend a lot of money on quality electronics, digital connections, etc. just to distort images with "aspect settings" and DNi automatic picture destroyers, etc. Why bother. Just run raw cable into your box, crank up the contrast till the picture "blooms", run up the brightness so that everything is light grey, yank the sharpness over till every edge on the screen crawls with moving pixels, and pull the colour up to that everything matches your Crayola crayon box and then edge the tint control over so no crayon actually matches the colour on the box. While we're at it, crank the bass till everything sounds like a hockey stick hitting a frozen blanket. Perfect.

[RANT OFF]

Welcome to the forum! ;)

I'm using a Sammy 30" widescreen 16x9 display.Sorry. Sammy what? CRT? LCD? What model number?

Are you using DVI/HDMI?