Originally posted by czzer
I don't see how replacing it yourself could void the warranty either, as instruction for doing so are right there in the manual!




This raises an interesting question. Aussie Bob's Panasonic tech people implied that there was a bulb hour counter that shuts off the circuit to the bulb after a predetermined number of hours. How does it get reset?? Is it as simple as opening and closing a bulb access door or do you have to connect a laptop and enter some codes??

I just sent mine into the heartland services for a new firmware. I hope it comes back with the problem fixed. I had a problem once the signal synced in any mode that is non-native to the projector, it would flash blue across the screen all of the time. They got it yesterday. How long has it taken to get these back from them? I was told they overnight ship it once it is fixed.

Originally posted by JimP
This raises an interesting question. Aussie Bob's Panasonic tech people implied that there was a bulb hour counter that shuts off the circuit to the bulb after a predetermined number of hours. How does it get reset?? Is it as simple as opening and closing a bulb access door or do you have to connect a laptop and enter some codes??

The bulb counter can be reset from the Service Menu. I can't remember the exact steps, but it was mentioned in the Super Thread. Something like holding the enter button down over a certain menu item.

Originally posted by czzer
The bulb counter can be reset from the Service Menu. I can't remember the exact steps, but it was mentioned in the Super Thread. Something like holding the enter button down over a certain menu item.

From the manual, select lamp hours from the OPTIONS submenu and hold down the ENTER button on the remote for about 3 seconds. The display will change to [POWER OFF]. Power the projector off and back on and the timer will be reset.

I just wanted to say that when I bought my ae700, Panasonic had a special promotion on which included a spare bulb. So obviously it must be expected that you can change the bulb yourself, at least on the west coast of Canada........... gee, hope this doesn't imply they thought the first one wouldn't last?:)

There's no doubt that full and comprehensive instructions are given for bulb replacement right there in the manual. The last instruction is to get a fully qualified service tech to do so. See what I mean about an each-way bet?

"Here's how to do it, but don't do it, or else..."

It could be argued that these instructions are for out-of-warranty users. But the fact remains that even these people can void their warranty (warranty? yes.. on the bulb) by DIYing it.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that this is another Epson Inkjet Cartridge sort of scam. First you make the basic unit surprisingly cheap. Then you hype the quality and the longevity of the "consumable" part of it (justifying to some extent it's high replacement price and the "special monitoring circuitry" bundled with it) and then quietly slip away from the pointy end of the stick by blurring, or outright abrogating warranty, and making it physically impossible to use generic replacements. Fill your literature about how "fragile" and how "high tech" the consumable is in order to set up the suckers for the sting. Add to this a "strict liability" clause in case of failure - "if it fails, you pay" - and you have a nice little earner until users wake up, or Consumer Protection bureaux start enquiring.

The caveats in the manual about "3000 hours" being only indicative and all the other things that can go wrong saound suspiciously Shakespearean to me, in the "Methinks they doth protest too much" kinda way.

In the coming months many users here will be facing their first mile stone: 1000 hours on the lamp. I'd be interested to see how many lamps actually survive that milestone.

The real issue here is that if the lamps really are so fragile, then their quality, their "merchantabilty" comes into serious question. My contention is that Panasonic can't have it both ways. They can't rave about the great results and long service life of their product and then refuse to back it up when it falls far, far short of honest expectations engendered as a result of the hype.

I'll buy a beer for anyone here who genuinely expected that, even with proper care and non-stressful domestic use, their lamps would fail well before 3000 hours; would in fact fail at one-quarter of that time and that the lamp would not be replaced under warranty.

Cue: Aussie Bob rings liquor store. Enquires how much beer they have in cool room...

I think you are spot on AB. I actually thought of the ink jet cartridge scenario when I read your first post about your bulb. 3000 was a serious factor when I purchased my AE700.

Years ago I worked as a contractor for HP (building a new Fab facility). There was an inside joke about the ink jet printer group about "giving away" the printers, because they had ya' hooked with the cartridges.:mad:

Just to add something to the pot:

One of the Panasonic call centre guys I have spoken with in this saga said something strange:

"Oh yes, I heard that the bulbs in the early shipments were shorter life ones, but they've rectified that now."

I let it pass at the time, but now I'm wondering.

Also, one of the service techs said to me they've seen quite a few AE500s (but no AE700s yet) come in with "broken ballasts". What's a "ballast"? I know about "ballasts" (transformers) in regard to fluoro lighting... could this be something to do with the lamp module in the AE700?

Just sayin'...

It seems to me that the policy on bulbs by many projector manufactures is not in their best interest. If a bulb fails early they are making their customers angry and unhappy. I would think that they need customer loyalty. I smart thing to do would be to prorate the bulb. Free replacement up to 1000 hours 50% 1000-2000 hours, 25% 2000-3000 hours. This could be done by have bringing the unit into any service center and having them check the hours on the projector. They could also build a timer into the bulb. Another alternative would be to lower the price of the bulb. A bulb is not an ink cartridge or razor blade. Customers should make their feelings known to the manufactures. If projector makers want to create a mass market product they must reduce bulb prices. How many people refuse to buy Plasma sets because their fear the units will not last too long. Just let the word get out that bulbs for DLP and LCD sets must be replaced every 1000-3000 hours and cost $300-$400 and we will see how set sales will be hurt.

Aussie Bob -- The lamp is a user replaceable item. The manual recommends that a qualified service technician do it because you must follow ALL of the replacement instructions exactly (I just checked page 54 of my instruction manual (Panny PT-L300U). Replacing the lamp yourself will not void the projector waranty.

As with any high pressure projection lamp, you must not touch the bulb at any time. Finger oils will put a slight amount of acid on the glass and can result in premature lamp failure. That is something I don't want to trust to a service jocky.

Part of the reason that these lamp assemblies are so expensive is that they have a ultra high pressure (UHP) lamp which is a precision assembly all by itself. Then the lamp is in a precision box with optics (precisely alligned mirror) to get the maximum amount of light into the optical path. Consequently, you don't want to drop the assembly either, after you've removed it from the box it came in.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that one of the possible reasons for premature lamp failure is that the original assemblers were sloppy. As far as I know, there is no ballast for these lamps. There is a step down circuit in the PJ power supply to provide the lamp with the correct voltage and (possibly an ignition circuit -- I doubt that part).

"It just occurred to me that one of the possible reasons for premature lamp failure is that the original assemblers were sloppy." - CT_Wiebe.

How would we ever know?

I wouldn't have a clue what the lamp looks like as I've never opened the projector, and certainly never touched the lamp. So finger trouble on my part does not apply. I would bet that is the general case among members here.

From what I've read, the lamp brightness is modulated as well as the shutter. Perhaps they haven't ironed out all the bugs.

It's apparent the projector is close to maxing out the available technology in order to get the last bit of brightness and contrast out of it. Hopefully the next generation will be less stressed.

While they're at it, a more efficient zoom lens (smaller f-number at long throws) would be a good idea.

While they're at it, a more efficient zoom lens (smaller f-number at long throws) would be a good idea.

Since all the available light is transmitted by the lens and ends up on the screen, does the f-number matter?

Sodbuster said: "Since all the available light is transmitted by the lens and ends up on the screen, does the f-number matter?"

That's the point, all the available light does NOT get transmitted. The internal elements of the zoom lens move relative to the other fixed elements and change the effective aperture, or "efficiency" of the lens itself.

The higher f-numbers at narrower zooms have an observable effect. For example, in the case of the AE700, a 120" wide picture at a 25 foot throw is LESS THEN HALF AS BRIGHT (1.2 stops darker) as a 120" wide picture at 12.5 feet. Users with long throws pay the penalty for the inefficiency of the zoom lens at narrow cones.

Happens a lot, actually. A (cheaper) photographic zoom lens exhibits the same phenomenon. My 35-105mm Nikon zoom (a cheapie) is f3.5 at 35mm focal length and f5.6 at 100mm focal length. More (much more) expensive zooms fix this problem by having huge elements that can pass more light in the middle of the fixed input and output elements. But I'm talking 000's of dollars more. Such a lens in the AE700 might have doubled its cost. But for those who could afford it, the option to purchase one would be nice (this would mean the lens would be interchangable, not fixed as it is at present).

Many expensive projectors use prime lenses for screen output. You have to select your focal length based on throw distance. This gets around the variable f-number zoom lens problem, but introduces others (like: having to make decisions).

I've heard there are add-on tele-extenders available, but they're not cheap as the diameters of the elements have to be quite large to handle the already enlarged projected picture. You zoom the projector lens at a long throw to maximum wide and then use the tele-extender to narrow the cone externally to fit your screen size, also capturing all the light. Better get your calculations right, though: they're expensive, like 000's expensive.

Actually, the zoom lens inefficiency phenomenon was discussed about 30-40 pages back on this thread, but as a starting point refer to the manual, page ENGLISH-57, "Lens Specifications" and you'll see the variable f-number specified there.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

Happens a lot, actually. A (cheaper) photographic zoom lens exhibits the same phenomenon. My 35-105mm Nikon zoom (a cheapie) is f3.5 at 35mm focal length and f5.6 at 100mm focal length. More (much more) expensive zooms fix this problem by having huge elements that can pass more light in the middle of the fixed input and output elements. But I'm talking 000's of dollars more. Such a lens in the AE700 might have doubled its cost. But for those who could afford it, the option to purchase one would be nice (this would mean the lens would be interchangable, not fixed as it is at present).



Glad you posted again and suggested a *choice* of lenses because I was going to point out that the cost of said lens would be prohibitive for cheapskates like me.;)

ted

We're all cheapskates here, or else we wouldn't be buying a cheap projector and then doing nothing but whingeing and whining about it!

I'll buy my super zoom lens "when the boat comes in", which could be some time in the future if I have to pay $500 for a new lamp.

There I go.... whingeing and whining again!

Coincidently, I found my 700 had suddenly dropped in brightness (seemingly overnight) right before reading of AussieBob's apparent lamp failure. Though not as significant, I'm guessing, as AussieBob's problem, it is pronounced enough that I toggled the Dynamic Iris on and off in case it had gotten stuck in the closed position (it hadn't, and the iris's effect is much subtler than the difference I'm seeing). This was at about 155 hours, and may be an example of the dimming that is to be expected after about 100 hours, though I'd never been given the impression that it would occur with such a sudden step, as opposed to gradually.

KongFan

Keep your eye on it, KongFan. The dimming must have been noticeable enough for you to worry about it.

"The Dimming"? Didn't Kubrik make that movie?

Aussie Bob:

The higher f-numbers at narrower zooms have an observable effect. For example, in the case of the AE700, a 120" wide picture at a 25 foot throw is LESS THEN HALF AS BRIGHT (1.2 stops darker) as a 120" wide picture at 12.5 feet. Users with long throws pay the penalty for the inefficiency of the zoom lens at narrow cones.


Thanks, my understanding of optics is shakier than I thought! It's just as well I wasn't aware of this previously, or I might not have purchased the projector, since mine is 26 feet from a 120-in wide screen. The lens is zoomed to nearly its tightest point at that distance.

I probably would have thought the resulting picture would be too dim, but it's very nice. We'll see how it looks as the bulb ages...if I can get past 700 hours before the bulb dies. :D

Soddy, I tried the same thing and noticed the difference, subjectively. Then I remembered reading about the variable f-number in the manual. I checked and then took measurements at different distances with a photographic spot meter. It bore out what da Book said.

But what you say about getting used to things is correct. I've done away with my filter (the original - and the best - Lee Light Salmon) when I started using an anamorphic lens in conjunction with ZOOM-1 mode. With no "gray" bars top and bottom of the picture it looks sensational. Smoother too.

Pedants will say I'm fooling myself, but you'd have to see the effect to believe how good it is. Brighter picture, too.

Speaking of lenses. I'm in the process of selling off all my film camera equipment as I've switched to digital. Its fairly common with Hasselblads to have a $1200 camera body with a $3,000 lens, $1,200 prism, and $800 magazine on it. Of course everybody else is doing the same thing and has driven the price of all this down severely. Too bad you can't use one of those lenses on the AE700. Talk about high contrast and sharp.

Modern projector lenses, especially zoom lenses, are truly amazing products of the technology and the art of optical design. It's no exaggeration to contend that they would have been next to impossible to design economically before the advent of fast computer ray-tracing software.

Legends abound of Leica lens designers of the past with row after row of mathematics students, all armed with slide rules and logarithm tables, each with one ray to calculate through a multiple element lens. These exercises took days, and often resulted in the abandonment of a design or its modification. Even finalised designs had large flaws and aberrations, and deciding how to balance them against each other involved more subjective decisions. That's how the "Leica look" became so famous and coveted. Ditto for Fuji lenses, and Hassys and Nikons (viewed as crassly sharp by aficianados).

But that was then.

This is now.

Today, you can trace 2,000, 4,000, 20,000 rays in a few milliseconds and see a perfect drawing on-screen with a $1000 PC, using relatively inexpensive software.

But there's still a lot, many say a helluva lot of art to lens design. The journeyman lens designer will usually have a library of basic designs in a database he or she can work off and modify. The Real Deal designers start with a blank screen, or even a blank piece of paper and a pencil. They can almost see the ray traces in their heads as they sketch out the first rough draft of a compound lens that eventually gets made in plastic moulds that cost many thousands of dollars per element to prototype.

Projectors, with their complex optics even before the LCD panels, have to take into account many more factors than just throwing up an image on the screen: telecentricity, flatness of field, offset projection, internal reflection, achromatism, distortion... all at full aperture... literally thousands of parameters. Camera lenses are pretty simple compared to them. That's a big part of the reason why they get to be so sharp: less glass to interfere with the image.

The art! The science!

And all I can do is whinge about a $500 light bulb.

All together now: BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!

Several web sites that sell replacement lamps also have pictures of them. The minute details are different but, in general, all PJ lamps look pretty much the same -- a metal case containing the lamp and mirror assembly with connectors on the bottom or back.

I was not implying that you touched it, just that the factory assembler may have. Also there could be a batch of bad bulbs. The Sanyo Z2 had that problem.

CT, I didn't get that impression, so no problems. How did the bad batch situation pan out? Did Sanyo give in?

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
The dimming must have been noticeable enough for you to worry about it.



Oh yes, no question about it. Clearly noticeable, and very sudden. I'm not happy, but I'm not quite sure what's up.

KongFan

Originally posted by CT_Wiebe
Several web sites that sell replacement lamps also have pictures of them. The minute details are different but, in general, all PJ lamps look pretty much the same -- a metal case containing the lamp and mirror assembly with connectors on the bottom or back.

I was not implying that you touched it, just that the factory assembler may have. Also there could be a batch of bad bulbs. The Sanyo Z2 had that problem.

The AE700 bulb is mounted in a frame made of some kind of composite material. Do a search at bhphoto for LAE700 and click on the enlarge image button. The frame has a ventilation tunnel in the front with a metal screen. The bulb/reflector is really buried in all the structural pieces. Quite a bit more elaborate than the old ones but nothing fundamentally different.

here it is:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/355167.jpg

A few AE700 owner questions:

Does everyone use the dyanmic iris mode?

Compared to the Hitachi PJ TX100 and Sanyo Z3, what is the black level and contrast of the AE700 like without the dynamic iris mode on?

How are people's AE700's with peak-a-boo's?

No solution to the HDMI cropping/pixel blanking yet?

Based on the picture brad posted, it wouldn't seem like you would be at risk of touching the bulb if you elected to replace it yourself. Does it? Given all the DIY work we forum users do, should we really be scared off of screwing in 2 screws? Also, most of us are new owners of ae700, still thrilled with our < 100 hours of blub usage. When the bulb behaves correctly, at what hour usage should we start to notice a difference?

"How are people's AE700's with peak-a-boo's?"

My DVD player is sending 480p, and there are peek-a-boo scanlines occasionally, but they don't bother me.

"Given all the DIY work we forum users do, should we really be scared off of screwing in 2 screws? "

My previous PJ had a similar bulb assembly, which I replaced three times without incident. I don't see why the AE700 should be different.

As an alternative to DIY bulb replacement I would be into our own powerbuy of bulbs to cut out the middle man's cut.

I traded in my PB6200 to get an AE700 and I'm thinking that I made a mistake at this point. Even though the PB6200 was only a 1024x768 compared to the AE700's 1280x720 resolution, I think the DLP process practically removed any trace of ScreenDoor effect.

I sit about 10 feet away from a 96" screen with my new AE700 and can see the pixels pretty well. On my PB6200, I used to sit 10 feet away from a 120" screen and didn't see ANY. I'm wondering if anyone can help me figure out what might be causing this. Is there a way to reduce pixelation with these?

Also, I did notice what I believe to be VB. When it displays pictures of the sky for instance, it looks like I'm projecting onto a piece of canvas.

I'm hoping that I can get a much better picture from this unit, since the native resolution is much higher than my PB6200's was. I just need some encouragement that it's because I haven't tweaked it yet...anyone? :)

This is the tweak thread, but I can tell you that I sit 11.5 feet away from a 119" -wide- (130" diagonal) screen and don't see SD on this projector. That is about 1.2 screen widths which is VERY close viewing (but I have a 2.35 ascpect screen). My vision is 20:20.

This projector does have weaknesses, that's for sure, but obvious pixelation and SD is not one of them.

It seems less likely therefore that you're seeing pixels "very well" at that distance from a much smaller screen. Are you sure your noe seeing source artifact? Do you see it on the bootup screen?

Best to take this elsewhere as it's not a tweak issue. Cheers. PM me or post to the normal thread. Cheers.

Originally posted by cabreau
............................................
I sit about 10 feet away from a 96" screen with my new AE700 and can see the pixels pretty well. ......................... I just need some encouragement that it's because I haven't tweaked it yet...anyone? :)

Well. If you haven't tweak it yet, then you need to... AE700 is a tweaker's projector. You need to get a beer and start reading this thread from post 1.... :) then start tweaking it..

And you probably don't have filter yet... Without the filter, I would use this setting here from this article :

http :// www .hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/panasonic-pt-ae700u-projector-2-2005-part-1.html

btw Screen door? what screen door?

Well, I hate to be a party-pooper but... :)

I have seen SDE on most Panasonics including the AE500/700. But its far less than on any other LCD projector though. I sit about 4 meters from a 108" screen, and I can still sometimes see SDE in some moving shots/panning scenes.

Same with my friends AE700 and AE500.

But again, its substantially less than on "the other ones".
:)

Panasonic service in Sydney have examined my projector and say, "The lamp appears to have melted down. We haven't seen anything like this before. Somehow it's still putting out light, but we can't figure out how."

Some talk of "ballast failure", but that's only talk at this stage.

Developing...

Aussie Bob
Will the flicker setting ever really settle? Mine has not yet and I have had this thing awhile. It is no big deal to adjust the flicker, but naturally I'd rather not.
Pixels are definately visible if you get too close, but its a projector, an LCD projector, what do you want? Much better than my old x1.

This is my opinion only.

I set up my flicker settings when the projector was cold. My reasoning was as follows (none of which may be correct, by the way):

Guess #1. Flicker changes depending on how long the projector has been switch on in any one session. This may be due to temperature fluctuations.

Guess #2. Software tracks flicker indirectly by monitoring temperature and other runtime variables. It can't track flicker directly. Only the human eye can do that. The idea is that "at such-and-such a temperature/runtime flicker should have changed or drifted (from whatever it started out as when you switched the projector on) by a factor of "X"

Guess #3. The flicker settings are starting, offset points to which the calculated "X" factor is added or subtracted by software. The software uses these as base points to adjust flicker during runtime.

Deduction #1. Therefore, the base points should be set when the projector is cold. Which is what I did, finally. And it worked, but whether it worked for the reasons above, I can't say. Maybe I was just lucky that I finally hit the jackpot.

Observation #1. When you get flicker right: NEVER touch it again.

All of the above could be wrong. However, I set my flicker controls immediately after a cold start (after tweaking them early on... much to my personal regret) and they came good and stayed that way.

If forced to make a definite statement, I'd also say that disconnecting standby power (pulling the mains plug after cool down) reallyt does make for less flickery and less VB-infested viewing. Don't know why.

Spoke to Panasonic again, and got some more info on the Lamp Problem. They told me that the reflector (glass) has melted where the wire comes out of it (see the picture above, on the right of the reflector). They are amazed it still functions at all.

In their tech's opinion it's a manufacturing defect and thus would be covered under warranty, but service has to get approval for the exchange before confirming a free replacement.

It could also be the ballast (not part of the lamp module) that's surging. In this case I might expect even the replacement lamp to fail early, as well. But he said they have a record of this unit and that next time both lamp and ballast would be replaced, again (if it was up to him) under warranty.

Also heard from the tech that the LCD panels should be expected to start failing after 3000 hours @ A$1000 per color. The polarising prisms after 5000 hours.

It seems the whole unit is "disposable" soon after the warranty expires, but this is in no way common to Panasonic LCD projectors. They're all the same: Sanyo, Sharp, Sony... all of them. Panasonic's general 2 year warranty he thought was quite generous for an LCD projector.

He owns a DLP projector and isn't going to start worrying until 100,000 hours about DLP failure.

So many things the brochures don't tell us...

Then again, if I wanted reliability, I'd have spent thousands more on a DLP and not had the benefit of:

(a) any new technologies that might crop up in the next couple of years,
(b) the thousands I saved in the meantime,
(b) personally chucking the old projector into the Jaws Of Death (a la Goldfinger) at the local garbage dump.

So, all in all, I think it was still a good buy, considering the cost (and the opportunity cost) of the alternatives.

This somewhat upbeat assessment could all change if Panasonic start playing hard-ball over the warranty.

degas,

When you say you see screendoor in "moving shots/panning scenes" you are not seeing screen door. Its refered to as the "peak-a-boo" effect. If you look at what you are seeing, it usually looks more like scanlines, at least thats how it looks to me. It truly is an optical illusion of sorts. When you optimize the flicker tweak, the peak-a-boo's are usually minimized.

He owns a DLP projector and isn't going to start worrying until 100,000 hours about DLP failure.
Biased opinion.

For screen door, just sit back another foot or defocus a tiny amount.

Hello!

Im from Germany and my english not the best. Sorry!

I´ve my PT AE700E since Dec. 2004. I´ve buyed this one with FW1.03 and i like the Projector. It´s my first one. The VB was to begin very strong and i very unhappy about this, but now @ 300hrs of running time it was gone. I power off the projector every time after used it and have test it without power off. Without powering off the mainswitch is the VB very strong. I ve tweak my projector with a heliopan KR6 81EF filter too and the results are great. But since i´ve update my AE700 to FW1.07 i´ve very strong Lampflicker. Every second or 2 changes the brightness of the picture short darker and than back to normal. Its only visible in a completely colluded room. At dimmed daylight room it´s not visible. I ve reading here about panasonics cheap mainsupply parts in the AE series. I ve change the circut from room to room but no change occurred. I ´ve clean the filter and build out the bulb to examine the electrical contacts. I ´ve seen the bulbwires only crimped and not soldering. I ´ve soldering it and now it´s a litte bit better but not eliminated. Could be far contact problems inside projector the cause from Mainsupply to bulb??? I ve very unhappy about this brightnessflicker. But i love the HD Res at 1280x720 pixels with HD materials. I´ve never seen so nice looked picture. My HD WMV DVD´s are Tomb Raider 2 and Matrix 2. Any HD Trailers from microsoft looks very nice too.

What can one otherwise still do against lampsflicker the problem?

greetings.........

I have the same "flicker" .... It started about 700 hours and am at 1200 now....It is very bad and reminds me of the flickering of a candle flame....most visible at my computer desktop....Should I send it in for warranty....Or could it be the lamp failing?

You mentioned that you have firmware 1.09. Is this correct or is it 1.07.

If it is 1.09 what are the changes?

sorry my fault. i mean FW1.07.

hi there

i have experienced a similar problem that you describe. i've tried everything you did short of doing any soldering. i started seeing it around 300 hours or so, but now have over 500 and the problem has seemed to disappear. from what i can tell at least. i havent seen it for about 75 hours or so. the one thing i did do is turn dynamic iris ON for a while. (i had it OFF for about 200 hours). if it starts up again, i'll consider sending it in as i would consider this unacceptable.

the other thing that i've noticed is that i can hear the dynamic iris sometimes. (the "clunky" sound you hear during startup) its usually during the start of a commercial or maybe a scene change. that worries me. if this continues, i will call tech support. i'm not convinced however that the lamp flicker is related to the iris though. i have an X1 and i had some lamp flicker for about 100 hours on my bulb and it went away. so, i'm hoping that's all it is.

please keep us posted if you discover anything further, and i will do the same. best regards-

Originally posted by 79ersst
Hello!

Im from Germany and my english not the best. Sorry!

I´ve my PT AE700E since Dec. 2004. I´ve buyed this one with FW1.03 and i like the Projector. It´s my first one. The VB was to begin very strong and i very unhappy about this, but now @ 300hrs of running time it was gone. I power off the projector every time after used it and have test it without power off. Without powering off the mainswitch is the VB very strong. I ve tweak my projector with a heliopan KR6 81EF filter too and the results are great. But since i´ve update my AE700 to FW1.07 i´ve very strong Lampflicker. Every second or 2 changes the brightness of the picture short darker and than back to normal. Its only visible in a completely colluded room. At dimmed daylight room it´s not visible. I ve reading here about panasonics cheap mainsupply parts in the AE series. I ve change the circut from room to room but no change occurred. I ´ve clean the filter and build out the bulb to examine the electrical contacts. I ´ve seen the bulbwires only crimped and not soldering. I ´ve soldering it and now it´s a litte bit better but not eliminated. Could be far contact problems inside projector the cause from Mainsupply to bulb??? I ve very unhappy about this brightnessflicker. But i love the HD Res at 1280x720 pixels with HD materials. I´ve never seen so nice looked picture. My HD WMV DVD´s are Tomb Raider 2 and Matrix 2. Any HD Trailers from microsoft looks very nice too.

What can one otherwise still do against lampsflicker the problem?

greetings.........

Originally posted by KongFan
Oh yes, no question about it. Clearly noticeable, and very sudden. I'm not happy, but I'm not quite sure what's up.

KongFan

you know what, now that you mention it, i had the same feeling at about 50 hours on my ae700, maybe closer to 75. it was "overnight" too. like the next day after i had used it for a full day, i woke up and turned it on, and went, "wow!, what happened!"

i dismissed it to being in my head, a psych thing--but now i'm not so sure. quite honestly, at 500 hours now, i think mine just keeps getting dimmer and dimmer. i wish my x1 was native widescreen, cuz i'd bring it up here and mount it to see what kind of difference in brightness i'd see.

if you ever figure anything out kong, please pm

Aussie Bob,
Thanks, believe it or not I never did try adjusting the unit cold. I will try that and see what happens.
Those sound like some pretty good guesses and deductions, but the question for me is what is that flicker adjust actually adjusting?
Also, what is the cause of vertical banding?
And while I'm being annoying, what's that funny looking moon icon on my keyboard?

billymac
Believe me, leave the x1 where it is. Unless your ae700 is really bad off, the x1 will look pretty dull.

Originally posted by Born2Fly
I have the same "flicker" .... It started about 700 hours and am at 1200 now....It is very bad and reminds me of the flickering of a candle flame....most visible at my computer desktop....Should I send it in for warranty....Or could it be the lamp failing? I'm at 726 hours, and I just started this "candle like flickering". I'm really upset because I just got my unit back from having the firmware updated. I don't know how you made it to 1200 with it. I've only had it for 2 hours and can't take it. It's much more frenquent than the white flashes were.

Since you made it to 1200 hours, do you guys think that rules out the bulb?

How do most people run the AE700?

AI set to ON or OFF?
Dynamic Iris set to ON or OFF?
Lamp HIGH or LOW?
Fan HIGH or LOW?

:)

Ordered ae700 from compusa today. hope they have the new firmware. Did anyone ordered and recieved new ae 700 recently from them or other vendors with new firmware? I have Infocus 4805 with 9 feet long screen and my only problem is that I am constantly aware of pixels at 12 feet from screen and I dont like to seat on the second row which is at 18 feet. I am sure you ae700 owners are happy when seating at around 1.3 times the screen lenght. Are You?
I need your feedback to sleep better until mine arrives.

Thank you in advance

DrA

Originally posted by cpc
How do most people run the AE700?

AI set to ON or OFF?
Dynamic Iris set to ON or OFF?
Lamp HIGH or LOW?
Fan HIGH or LOW?

:)

Did you search at all through this tweak thread?
There are probably 10 or 15 sets of settings given earlier in this thread.
Most use lamp on low, for example, w/o the filter; most use lamp on high w/ the filter.

Ultimately, much of it is personal preference - try them all each way and see which is better for you.

Originally posted by DrA
Ordered ae700 from compusa today. hope they have the new firmware. Did anyone ordered and recieved new ae 700 recently from them or other vendors with new firmware? I have Infocus 4805 with 9 feet long screen and my only problem is that I am constantly aware of pixels at 12 feet from screen and I dont like to seat on the second row which is at 18 feet. I am sure you ae700 owners are happy when seating at around 1.3 times the screen lenght. Are You?
I need your feedback to sleep better until mine arrives.

Thank you in advance

DrA

Smoothscreen on the AE700 just about eliminates the SDE.
You'll be fine at 1.3x screen seating.

Sleep better ;)

You will notice source artifact, especially from SD sources at that viewing distance far more than SD. (I sit at 1.2x from a 2.35 width screen)

Is anyone using the AE700 in LOW LAMP and without the Auto Iris function working? How is it working for you? Contrast and black levels still decent?

Hard to search for those settings, as people don't always give all of that information together. Often I post not to avoid searching, but to get up to date information. People change their habits. Just wanted to see a few replies from people.

I just wonder with people complaining about the iris noise and noticable brightening and dimming during scene pans and scene changes if anyone has used the AE700 without the auto iris function, and if so, how does it fair?

Does anyone have any idea how many AE 700 owner's there are on AVS? I wonder what the problem ratio is.

Bottom line: ratios don't mean much on a forum since only those with problems post about the problems.

I am on a car club forums for several vehicles I own. It seems to me that the actual ratio of problems is exaggerated on issues because those who have the problems tend to look for another person having it. The same can be found here in the HDTV section. Some of the problems with the SA8300HD box have never happened to me, even trying to recreate them, but if I read the forum first I would be scared to get the box...

On cars, reading about a serious problem in one of the forums I talked to my trusted mechanic. I felt assured that these were 4 cases out of about 4,000 vehicles produced, which, put in perspective is not spectacular but that's a 1:1000 chance of a problem. No others added that they had problems and it has been 2 years since those four posts, so I feel confident it was 4 flukes rather than a larger issue.

Let's hope the first batch was the problem and that those of us who got the projector later on won't have the issues. Just like cars, the first ones tend to be the issues.

The auto iris is one of the major selling points of the projector. Disabling it would make no sense, IMO.

the iris is indeed nice for video and film, but for htpc use, it can be somewhat annoying imo, just load this forum for example and you'll see what i mean ;)

so i'm not alone then? others are hearing the iris frequently?

I'm with PAP (yah got that lens up yet?).

W/O the IRIS it makes little sense to me. I'll be surprised if we don't see more PJ's with an AUTO IRIS produced in the future and a refinement of the technique - (at least until a fourth panel or a better modulation scheme comes along).

As far as noticing it visually - in the 400+ hours that I've watched I've seen many more F-stop pulls than I've seen the iris pumping - certainly *not* enough to make it a concern.
.
As to sound - the fan in the low mode is more noticeable to me.

I honestly don't understand why people have difficulty understanding the how and why of an auto aperture in this application.

ted

Okay. Off topic but right thread. Concerning the cropping issue - I just became aware of it. I've searched this thread and got some clarification but not totally clear.

The issue of cropping, according to this thread occurs only on hdmi, or at least not over component. Then I'm wondering why my picture on some sources I get cropping on all sides, and on other sources I get cropping only on the sides and not top and bottom. Aspect ratio used is irrelevant as is HD overscan selection. Again is this only an hdmi problem and I'm not doing something correctly in my menus (i.e. PJ, or DVD Player (Yamaha 750)).

Huh??

Originally posted by KBK
OK. Just took the unit apart,and re-set the polarizing filter for the green channel.


How did you ascertain the correct position for the polarizer?

i'm not knocking the iris and it's benefits, i'm merely stating my concerns of the noise i hear coming from it at times and wonder if this is "normal". it is the same decible level as the noise at startup and much noisier than the fan.


Originally posted by tvted
I'm with PAP (yah got that lens up yet?).

W/O the IRIS it makes little sense to me. I'll be surprised if we don't see more PJ's with an AUTO IRIS produced in the future and a refinement of the technique - (at least until a fourth panel or a better modulation scheme comes along).

As far as noticing it visually - in the 400+ hours that I've watched I've seen many more F-stop pulls than I've seen the iris pumping - certainly *not* enough to make it a concern.
.
As to sound - the fan in the low mode is more noticeable to me.

I honestly don't understand why people have difficulty understanding the how and why of an auto aperture in this application.

ted

Originally posted by billymac
i'm not knocking the iris and it's benefits, i'm merely stating my concerns of the noise i hear coming from it at times and wonder if this is "normal". it is the same decible level as the noise at startup and much noisier than the fan.

I outta........ ;)

Mr Mac I believe I stated many times that the fact that you hear the "kerchunk" at times other than when you turn on the unit would concern me, because as far as I know the filter is going through its calibration procedure and is establishing its end stops suggesting to me the unit is somehow being reset. Also I believe that I've suggested you call Panasonic and that I understand why you might be hesitant if it means shipping. :p

Btw I know you're not beating up on the iris - you *did* qualify to HTPC - my aside was really for those who question its value.

ted

Originally posted by gazzagazza
How did you ascertain the correct position for the polarizer?

That's a real old posting that you are referencing - if my synapses are still firing - and I wonder if KBK is still monitoring this thread.

This is a good question - you might consider starting a specific thread about LCD polarizers what they do, problems with and how to troubleshoot, for those of us who don't mind spilling the machines guts to poke at things.

BTW you might try an AVS search first to see if your questions have been addressed in the past. I do know I've seen postings pertaining to LCD polarizers.

ted

it's all good in the hood ted

but i'll ask again, is ANYBODY else hearing this "kerchunk-" other than at startup with the iris ON OR OFF?



Originally posted by tvted
I outta........ ;)

Mr Mac I believe I stated many times that the fact that you hear the "kerchunk" at times other than when you turn on the unit would concern me, because as far as I know the filter is going through its calibration procedure and is establishing its end stops suggesting to me the unit is somehow being reset. Also I believe that I've suggested you call Panasonic and that I understand why you might be hesitant if it means shipping. :p

Btw I know you're not beating up on the iris - you *did* qualify to HTPC - my aside was really for those who question its value.

ted

DVD pal :D


http://img231.exs.cx/img231/1585/dsc003628hq.jpg

:p

Well, I just helped my brother install his ae700. Wow, impressed. I have a 50" panny plasma and I'm jealous.

Question is, he has a 106" 16:9 da-lite from projectorpoint, we ceiling mounted 12" from the ceiling at 16' back. I can move it forward 1 1/2 feet, is it worth it? I wasn't sure when I mounted it, I wanted the projector further back closer to the back wall because the 50' component cable is 1" thick and pretty ugly and I didn't want it running across the ceiling for too long.

However after installing it, it doesn't matter, the cable is thick and ugly and I could mount the projector closer. Should I? Is it worth the hassle?

Thanks,

Originally posted by AVWH
Did you search at all through this tweak thread?
There are probably 10 or 15 sets of settings given earlier in this thread.
Most use lamp on low, for example, w/o the filter; most use lamp on high w/ the filter.

Ultimately, much of it is personal preference - try them all each way and see which is better for you.


Originally posted by cpc
Is anyone using the AE700 in LOW LAMP and without the Auto Iris function working? How is it working for you? Contrast and black levels still decent?

Hard to search for those settings, as people don't always give all of that information together. Often I post not to avoid searching, but to get up to date information. People change their habits. Just wanted to see a few replies from people.

I just wonder with people complaining about the iris noise and noticable brightening and dimming during scene pans and scene changes if anyone has used the AE700 without the auto iris function, and if so, how does it fair?

Does anyone have any idea how many AE 700 owner's there are on AVS? I wonder what the problem ratio is.



CPC
Gee, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to read this entire thread. ;) :rolleyes: I am on this site all the time and I can't keep up with everything so don't worry about posting a question.
If non beneficial posts could be eliminated off this thread, it would eliminate about 1/3 of its content. :)

Craig

I just got received my new AE 700 this past week and I did noticed a little flickering the first night I turned it on. I thought it was my power supply (wall plug etc,,) or my component hook up with the cheap standard RCA cables, or perhaps it was due to the real time iris control. After playing around with all the plugs/cables and iris control(on/off), they made no significant improvement. I have to say my flicker was very subtle. Now, after reading this forum, I guess the slight dimming and brightening of the light output to my unit must be the "flickering" that is so talked about in this forum. I have two questions:

1. What is causing this problem? and why would an update firm ware help resolve this issue?

2. What is the most updated firm ware# ?? Prior to my purchasing my AE, I became aware of firm ware fixes via this forum. So I had specifically asked the online store people to make certain that they would update the unit that I am to purchased to the most updated firm ware. Finally, after leaning how to check for firm ware to my unit, again through this forum which I very much appreciate everyone's expertise and inputs, I noted my firmware is as followed, (there were three sets of numbers proceeded by a letter that I cannot recall now except the first one)

P 1.07 ? 1.03 ? 1.05
Question, is this the latest firmware. Why the three numbers? and lastly, did it fix much of what was previously discussed on this thread ie, bad flickering, white flashed (don't know exactly what this is or if I have this problem since I have not hook up my unit via HDMI). I am waiting for my upconverting DVD player Zenith 318 to arrive today (a player, now I see, also has it's own set of issues). thanks.

Originally posted by suffolk112000
CPC
Gee, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to read this entire thread. ;) :rolleyes: I am on this site all the time and I can't keep up with everything so don't worry about posting a question.
If non beneficial posts could be eliminated off this thread, it would eliminate about 1/3 of its content. :)

Craig

You mean like your post - which added nothing?

I've posted Brad Bissell's settings at least three times within this subforum; I've posted my own at least three times. I bet at least SOME of those posts would show up if one searched for "Settings" within this thread, or just searched for Brad Bissell's posts - and how hard is THAT?
Or are we supposed to re-post for every person who wanders into this thread who is too lazy to do a search first for what they're asking??

Spent 30 seconds doing a search for "settings" within this thread.

Here's the post w/ both Brad Bissell's and mine (about the 7th one down the first page of responses to that search):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5416909&highlight=settings#post5416909

my 60 in. high screen is 45 in. from the ceiling. Is my ideal placement at 30 +45=75 in.? I am replacing a 4805 which is mounted 31 in. from ceiling. I can extend the pipe 12 in. more which will give me 43 in.The maximum lens shift is .63 x60=37.8 in. I need to use the most of this lens shift(75-43=32).
Is this bad for the picture quality?
sorry if my calculations are wrong.

Thanks

DrA

Cant wait for pixel free viewing.

"bad"for picture quality I meant do I need keystone adljstment with lens shift and will some pixels be lost from the botom edge?

DrA

DrA
If you're still within the lens shift range you won't need a keystone adjustment. I believe the manual says that the center lens shift position is ideal for picture quality, but your biggest issue may be that of centering. With the verticle lens shift close to the end of its range you have very little or no horizontal lens shift. Even whatever shift may be there will be hard to use. It is easiest to adjust this thing when it is near center. No way you can add a 36" extension instead of the 12"?

Thanks tsteves,

I wonder what part of picture quality will be less than ideal according to the owners manual. (page 27 online pdf.) What people do with high ceiling?

My infocus mount has ball type joint so I will use that to center it. I just hope some of the many holes of infocus sp-ceil-011 plate will line up to ae700 holes. Anyone use this plate?

or just searched for Brad Bissell's posts

Without reading the thread how am I supposed to know he posted settings. All anyone had to say was that people posted "settings" which include the info I was looking for. I could have searched for settings, but my question was that I wasn't sure if people were all running the same for the bulb and AI and iris. I recalled that with the 500 some didn't use the AI and so this time I wondered if there was a generallly agreed base setup, before discussing other adjustments, changing only other settings. I'll check the link and search for other info.

Checked those settings. Is there no longer an AI setting?

I dont think I will be able to extend more than a foot first, because I dont have extra length to my hdmi and compnent cables and walls are permanently finished. Do you think hdmi will suffer from extension adapter? Second, more than 6 feet from ceiling will projector shake when someone is walking upstairs?

Thanks

I posted this before with no reply. Please reply if you can.



Okay. Off topic but right thread. Concerning the cropping issue - I just became aware of it. I've searched this thread and got some clarification but not totally clear. The issue of cropping, according to this thread occurs only on hdmi, or at least not over component. Then I'm wondering why my picture on some sources I get cropping on all sides, and on other sources I get cropping only on the sides and not top and bottom. Aspect ratio used is irrelevant as is HD overscan selection. Again is this only an hdmi problem and I'm not doing something correctly in my menus (i.e. PJ, or DVD Player (Yamaha 750)).


Thank you.

DrA
How long are the cables in the wall? If not very long, it might not be a problem with an extension. If not, there are boosters. How close do you think the pj is to the center, horizontally of the screen? I doubt you'll have shaking problems with walking if you use something solid. Jumping or dropping bookcases might be different.

AVWH and cpc
peace dudes!

Quite a time since I posted in this topic :D I am still reading through. Still very happy with the pq of my panna (with the B&W filter now :) ).

Actually I am posting about the iris... and the noise it's making.
I have been using my pj with low lamp and dynamic iris on and I have notice this noice. Actually the noise seem to only happen when you quickly switch from a full white to full black screen (actually full bright to a full dark screen, doesn't have to be white and black I guess).

I did notice it since long ago... I am using an computer with Zoomplayer and as you begin playing a dvd there is a switch from white to black and the noice of the iris with it. Actually I wasn't really annoyed by the noice and I through it probably was normal.
A while ago however I was watching evengelion and in one of the two last episode there are some quick "flash" at a moment (for a few second). And the iris whas doing its work... going on and off really quickly a few time in a row. Basicaly it did do the same sound as usualy but multiple time and it seemed pretty scary to me... it does quite a lot of noise and make you wander if the iris is really realiable.

Less impressive, I have also notice that when puting a black screen and chaging the "dynamic iris" setting in the setting I heard the iris noice.... if that can be of any use...

Originally posted by rwestley
I asked about other issues including the cropping problem. The person with whom I spoke told me that the only issues fixed by the new firmware was the white flash problem and that the cropping problem was not fixed. He did not think that there
were plans to fix it. I stated that many AVS forum members and others
have found this to be a serious problem and that it should be able to be
fixed with new firmware. I do know that they monitor the forums and with
some more push something might be done.

This is the worst possible news I could have heard. I *love* this projector's image, but I consider this a major drawback of the device. Not only does it mean I lose a few pixels, but it also means the image is not quite the same shape as my 16x9 screen!

Has anybody else heard ANYTHING new about what could be done about this. (Perhaps even a hack which allows the Macintosh DVI output to "trick" the projector into showing the correct image?)

Hdmi cable is 33 feet long. It only works wih my dvi/hdmi htpc(ATI 800x) It is too long for my samsung directv h-10 reciever so reciever is at the cieling too.
centering is perfect now with 4805 and since the lense is on the same side it will not be a problem.

DrA

Panasonic seem to agree my problem is "lamp-orientated" but have no lamps in stock. Nor can (or will) they give an ETA on when they can get one in.

I suggested they contact one of their retailers and get one back for a credit from them (and re-supply when the new lamps come in). I gave them two companies who have spare lamps. All I got was a verbal "shrug".

I asked them if they'd tested for something on the motherboard causing the problem, i.e. would a new lamp just blow like the old one? They didn't know if they'd tested for it. They'd "get back to me."

All of this information has been as a result of my ringing them. They've not followed up (as promised) once to any calls I've made. I've had to ring back every time. If I hadn't rung them at all I'd have waiting till doomsday for feedback.

Starting to get annoyed.

Does anyone have any idea what the "SD Level, HDCP1, HDCP2" in the (hidden) service menu do?

SD Level? Screen door? Could this adjust the intensity of the "smoothscreen"?

I'm mostly curious about the HDCP items, as I am having trouble with total signal loss, via 15' HDMI cable from a panny S97 dvd player and a LG 4200a HDTV stb (mostly the DVD player).

Anyone, anyone....... bueller??

I use HDMI input but I found that the sharpness level is quite strange as I use VMR9 and it's quite soft but when display pattern to calib. the pj it shown some over-sharpness (ghost image around the black lines). Any thing to solve this?

Now tried the Rosco #4815 CC15 Pink.

The result, slightly blue blacks (not as black as the heliopan 81EF)
A contrast ratio not as high as with the 81EF. One plus, no tendency to give a slight green tint to flesh tones.

Originally posted by Sandwedg
Does anyone have any idea what the "SD Level, HDCP1, HDCP2" in the (hidden) service menu do?

SD Level? Screen door? Could this adjust the intensity of the "smoothscreen"?

I'm mostly curious about the HDCP items, as I am having trouble with total signal loss, via 15' HDMI cable from a panny S97 dvd player and a LG 4200a HDTV stb (mostly the DVD player).

Anyone, anyone....... bueller??
This is NOT an authoritative answer by any means, but I just wanted to share that, after I got my AE-700 back from the firmware upgrade, my friends and I all started to "sense" that there was a tad bit more visible Screen Door Effect on it than there was before I sent it in.

I went to the hidden menu and saw that the SD Level was on "B". I set it to "A" (having no idea what SD Level really meant).

Now the Screen Door Effect is just as smooth as it was before I sent it in for the upgrade.

I don't know if it was because I set it to "A" or if it was because my HD reception happened to be going through a glitchy period before I monkeyed with the SD Level adjustment, but the improvement did seem to coincide with my setting it to "A".

I haven't experimented with "C" or "D" to see what happens (too spooked, I guess. lol) but I'd also like to know just what SD Level adjustment is supposed to do.

Aussie Bob,

I know what your going through and it definetly sucks. I had a similar situation 2 years ago when we bought our first toshiba hdtv. After a month the screen went dead and would not turn. Service said it blew a fuse, so they replaced it. As soon as I turned it back on at home, it blew the fuse again. They replaced it. I asked them if they tested the tv to see if it was something besides a fuse, since it was pretty odd that it would happen twice. Each trip to service was a week, and in the mean time I was on the phone with toshiba. After the third fuse blew on the first power on, I was able to convince them to deliver me a new tv. All is well now and have had no problems over the past two years, but the month that the process took was one of most stressfull and unhappy times I've had.

Hopefully panasonic will get their act together and issue you a replacement soon, eventually the managers get tired of hearing from you (expecially when you call every day for an update on the status.... ;))

After 2 days of reading I have finally made it through the entire tweak thread, and I think I need another cup of coffee. Time to go home soon and apply some tweaks to the new projector.

I have been told by Service that there is a form asking questions about the lamp like, "How many times has it been turned on?", "Any improper power-downs?" and so on, in order to determine whether a warranty replacement is in order. So, that seems to confirm that statistics really are kept internally by the projector. I'm trying to find out more about this form, maybe even get a copy.

I decided to take the plunge last weekend and bought the AE700 from a shop in Akihabara last Saturday. This is my first projector, so I'm a rank newbie in this field.
Some observations on this projector:
As per *an unmentionable site*, it is 100-120V only, and I found that The OSD and menus are in Japanese, with no language switching capabilities. Luckily, I could understand enough to operate it.
I had read the bulk of this thread before I went to buy the projector, so I now set out to buy an 81EF filter to go with it. To my dismay, Japan seems to use a different naming scheme for their filters and I could not find any 81EF filters available either in BIC Camera or in Yodobashi Camera (two of the largest photo + electronics shop chains in Tokyo.)
I decided to buy something to experiment with anyway, so I picked up a 77mm Kenko W12 filter, which had an orange tint.
Upon coming home and doing further research on the net, I found that the W12 filter is close to an 85B, and that an 81EF would be similar to a CC30Y + CC10M combination.
On trying the W12 filter in Video mode. I found the color balance to be warmer than in Natural mode or Cinema 1 but quite pleasing to my unrefined eyes.

I decided to try and pick up a better filter if possible the next day and ventured to Yodobashi Camera again. I did not find any suitable screw-in filters, but I found both CC30Y and CC10M sheet filters, and a sheet filter -> 77mm adapter, which I picked up.
With this combination, Video mode looks like a brighter version of Natural mode with a very pleasing color rendition, without adjusting any of the brightness or contrast sliders. The CC30Y+CC10M combination is definitely superior to the W12 (85B).

I'm driving this projector with a Linux HTPC connected via VGA (haven't bought DVI -> HDMI converter and cable yet.)
For those who are interested, here is the Modeline I'm using to get what appears to be 1:1 mapping:
Modeline "1280x720" 76.50 1280 1340 1692 1696 720 721 726 750 -hsync -vsync

I obtained this modeline off the web. It was stated to work well with an AE500, so I decided to try it, with good results.

Krishna

Congrats on your projector acquisition. The AE700 was also my first front projector and I can share your excitement.

If you need any help getting one of these filters, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

I'm in Australia and after 475 hours my projector is starting to flicker :(

It goes a little bright and then a little darker every minute or so :(

Anyone found a fix for this?

Aussie Bob... what state are you in and what service centre did you go to?

aurz

The flicker you're describing sounds very much like the bulb related issue.

Have you done the flicker adjustment found on the first or second page of this thread. It won't help the bulb flicker, but if the flicker is of the other kind, it may help it.

Hi JimP,

Sure have :)

Yeah.. it sounds like the bulb... you can tell its not the flicker adjust because the whole brightness drops and goes back up.

So annoying. :(

Evening, Projector Fans...

Aurz... still haven't got word of when my lamp is due into Panasonic. If there's no word tomorrow I'm ringing the national service manager. I'm starting to get sick of "Sorry, Aussie Bob, no news" from the staff (nice guys, all of them, and helpful, but their hands are tied).

Managed to get my hands on a Service Manual for the AE700. It's on CD and is heavily interwoven with about three hundred other Panasonic products. In other words, it's not just a simple PDF file. Some sort of proprietary Panasonic Database called (original title, eh?) "Panaview".

Preamble
I have to say, we've worked out most of the nuances here in this thread. The manual only clears up a few mysteries re the "secret" Service Menu (and none at all concerning the "secret-secret" menu that tags off the Service Menu. Seems its a secret even to the Panasonic guys).

Here are a few things I jotted down. As I find more, I'll update. This list is in no particular order of importance or relevance. I'm just trying to remember questions asked up-thread about various puzzles in the menus. Forgive me if I forget any.

The Correct Way to do Flicker Adjustment
All my theorizing about doing the flicker adjustment when the unit is cold seems to be just that: theorizing. There's no mention in the Service Manual of adjusting flicker before the unit heats up. The adjustment is as easy/hard for techs as it is for us Moonbats: "Just keep tweaking until you don't see any flicker." Not mention of hot, cold or in-between. Sorry to disappoint anyone who was expecting special tricks of the trade. It's about as banal as you can get. Just "adjust for minimum flicker" is all it says to do.

The Mysterious "RUNTIME PRT" menu item
***ON means the unit shuts down after two-thousand hours lamp runtime.
***OFF overrides automatic shutdown. You can keep your lamp blazing until your house burns to the ground if this option is OFF (not recommended).

AUTO SETUP: NORMAL/SPECIAL.
Here I quote from the manual:

- AUTOSETUP
Setting AUTO SETUP mode
- NORMAL: To set the normal mode (the dot clock is adjusted strictly)
- SPECIAL: To set the special mode (the dot clock is adjusted roughly)
* Do not change the initial setting (NORMAL).

Don't know if I prefer it "strict" or "rough". I'm a bitch like that. Aw hell... just leave AUTOSETUP on NORMAL!

SELF CHECK Mode
I've left out items that are self-explanatory. The opposite of "OK" after a parameter is "NG" (no-good).

Version numbering
The version information on the top line is as follows
*Rx.xx is the software version.
*Ax.xx is the FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) or custom chip version.

"G SAVED" and "U SAVED"
refer to whether or not Gamma Correction and Color Unevenness Correction data have been uploaded to the projector. Every projector has its "personal", idiosyncratic flaws, and these data are supposed to be corrections for those flaws. Every AE700 should have "OK" when it leaves the factory.

"TEMP OK"
Does not mean that the lamp temperature is running "OK". It means that, in the event of lamp failure, the lamp did not fail because the temperature became too hot. If the lamp did overheat prior to failing this would read "NG". It's to tell the serviceperson why your projector blew up (mine read "OK" by the way, and the lamp had melted down!... so much for "TEMP OK")

Left-hand column TEMP1 and TEMP2
* TEMP1 is the current temperature around the LCD panels.
* TEMP2 is the current temperature at the air filter.

Right-hand column TEMP1 and TEMP2
These are statistical temperature readings:
* TEMP1 is the temperature around the LCD panels when the projector last shut down due to thermal overload.
* TEMP2 is the temperature at the air filter when the projector last shut down due to thermal overload.

"FAN OK"
Once again, does not mean the fan is currently working properly. It is a statistical entry. When the lamp fails, "OK" means the lamp was running when it failed. "NG" means the lamp was not running when the lamp failed. At least that's what I think it means. Here's the quote from the manual: "Fan Stop Check - Cause Of Lamp Malfunction" - go figure.

"TOTAL ****H"
Total Usage Time, not total lamp time. This is the AE700's odometer.

The Confusing Lamp Hour Readouts
I'll give it to you straight from the manual.

Left-hand column: xxxxHnn = "Cumulative Usage Time (actual time)"
Middle Column: *** = "ON Frequency"
Right-hand column: xxxxHnn = "Cumulative Usage Time (conversion time for 130W)

"ON Frequency" is the number of times you've turned the projector on and off. "Conversion for 130W" is total hours lamp time plus a loading for "HIGH" lamp usgae. What the two digits ("nn") are after "H", I don't know for sure, but my theory is that they represent a total of improper shutdowns (i.e. mains cord pulled direct at the wall socket, not gradual cool-down via the remote). They could also refer simply to "minutes".

The three rows of readouts are only described in the manual as "CURRENT", "SECOND" and "FIRST". Update: these list the history of up to three lamps.

"RESET xxx"
The number of times the Cumulative Usage meter has been reset.

Serial Data I/O
A bone of much contention in these pages.

There is an RS232 function in the projector. You need Panasonic's software, a standard RS232 PC cable and an adapter board (Panasonic part number) to connect to the projector. The RS232 port on the projector is inside the box (you have to take the lid off) at connector A19, which is on the top board after the lid is removed in the far back left corner (looking from behind the projector).

I do remember a "secret-secret" menu that seemed to relocate this port to one of the video connectors, but this "secret-secret" menu is not discussed at all in the service manual I got a hold of (yeah, I was pi**ed off too). In fact none of the features (which I have all forgotten by now) of the "secret-secret" menu are discussed. Sorry to disappoint.

The Panasonic software allows setting of FLICKER, GAMMA, RGB INPUT LEVEL (automatic... no "creative" settings allowed), COLOR UNEVENNESS, and COLOR MANAGEMENT defaults.

MEA CULPA FOLLOWS: In another thread I predicted that software updates would be too slow with the RS232 port and that anyone who thought updates would be done by RS232 had rocks in their head.

Well... I WAS WR.. WR.. WRONG.

Software updates ARE done via the RS232 port (called "MICOM" updates).

So shoot me. Aaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhh!

(I didn't really mean "shoot me")

General Observations
Having read more of these types of manuals than I care to remember, I can claim some experience with them (or their ilk). This one is not much different to your run-of-the-mill Japanese electronics manual. It tells the technical person only as much as they need to know and not much more. There's no "theory of operation" and very little commentary. It's all, "Do this. Check that. Replace whatchermecallit"

There seem to be several statistical check-points where the user's "I hardly ever turned the thing on" sob-story can be checked cold-bloodedly by a nasty, mean serviceperson trying to save a buck on giving you a warranty lamp against statistical records compiled by relentless software logging OFFs and ONs, lamp times and illicit, forbidden RESETS of usage meters.

"Curses! foiled again! Panasonic are just too smart for us customers. I offer them my AE700 as a burnt offering (literally)."

As far as I can see, there are no great revelations, but it's nice to clear up a few puzzles that have absorbed the time of fellow Moonbats here in these pages.

Aussie Bob, over and out.

AussieBob,

This is great information. Thanks! On the TEMP OK thing I suspect that it means that the temperature at the inlet and at the panels was OK when the lamp blew. The fact that the bulb was on fire probably is not relevant since they don't have a bulb temperature sensor. They want to know if the bulb melted because it wasn't getting properly cooled air. So, your bulb clearly destroyed itself even though the environmental conditions were normal.

Tony

Thanks AussieBob! A real contribution to this thread! My ae700 is only 1 month old, and with all the posts about bulb failure, I worry that one day I'll join the "club".

My viewing habits have been as such.
- Plug everything in, power up the projector, watch 2 hour movie, power off and let the fan run, turn off the projector, unplug from the wall.

Perhaps a bit more then I need to do, but hey, I'm a creature of habit. I'm wondering if 4-5 hours of usage at a time is detrimental (perhaps from an overheating standpoint). When football season starts up, I planned to get a HD box and, with at least 2 games in HD every Sunday, my usage might be 9 hours straight on occasion. Am I asking for bulb trouble putting it to that much use?

Aussie...any word on the new settings for the 1.07 firmware? Like hdcp1, hdcp 2, etc...

Without having to read this longggg thread where do you find what software version your projector has. I went through the user menu and the service menu and did not see anything labeled Software version. Thanks!!

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Without having to read this longggg thread where do you find what software version your projector has. I went through the user menu and the service menu and did not see anything labeled Software version. Thanks!!

Try this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4926297#post4926297

You can use the "search this thread" box and search for "version" or something like that. The older posts are listed last and they usually contain basic information like this.

Edit: A Faux Pas like this should be left for for the entertainment of all. Obviously I failed to notice who was posting.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger


[[/B]

Hey, you're no noob! Watch out for the tar and feathers :).

Got it thanks.

My unit has 1.5
Anyone have the latest software 1.7

Yes I am a dealer but Im having a hard time getting any response through the proper channels.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Got it thanks.

My unit has 1.5
Anyone have the latest software 1.7

Yes I am a dealer but Im having a hard time getting any response through the proper channels.

Alan,

I'm not sure what you are asking. There are many people who have projectors with the 1.07 code. There is a thread for the 1.07 code. As far as I know, the code is unavailable outside of Panasonic. U.S. PJs have to be sent to the Panasonic service center in Heartland, KS for upgrade. AussieBob's last post is the first I've seen that actually verifies how Panasonic intended new code to be loaded into the PJ (via RS232).

Tony

Thanks Tony
I am really not up on any of this not having followed the thread. Im just now jumping in getting my feet wet. I have sent several emails and phone calls to my rep with no answer regarding the up dates. Frustrating.
I see the 1.7 thread is right in front of my face.. Will do some reading. To bad the software is not user down loadable.

hee hee, yeah and just try and find a replacment lamp :D

;)

guess they're pretty hard to get atm

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Thanks Tony
I am really not up on any of this not having followed the thread. Im just now jumping in getting my feet wet. I have sent several emails and phone calls to my rep with no answer regarding the up dates. Frustrating.
I see the 1.7 thread is right in front of my face.. Will do some reading. To bad the software is not user down loadable.
Actually, it turns out the update software IS user downloadable, but it's only implentable if you open the PJ and void the warranty. quite a small file that DLs quite quickly. Some fairly tech oriented guys in France figured it out because there is as yet not official FW update in France.

Originally posted by dapdrums

I'm wondering if 4-5 hours of usage at a time is detrimental (perhaps from an overheating standpoint). When football season starts up, I planned to get a HD box and, with at least 2 games in HD every Sunday, my usage might be 9 hours straight on occasion. Am I asking for bulb trouble putting it to that much use?

You may have something here.
I can tell you this. My Panny was perfect - until I watched the Star Wars Trilogy back-to-back. I turned the projector off for about a half hour in-between films. The very next day I noticed my bulb had dimmed considerably. With only 450 hours on it. Panny repair re-placed the bulb under warranty (no charge). But - I'll never run my projector longer than 3-4 hours at a time again.

Originally posted by John Ballentine
You may have something here.
I can tell you this. My Panny was perfect - until I watched the Star Wars Trilogy back-to-back. I turned the projector off for about a half hour in-between films. The very next day I noticed my bulb had dimmed considerably. With only 450 hours on it. Panny repair re-placed the bulb under warranty (no charge). But - I'll never run my projector longer than 3-4 hours at a time again.

John,

Do you run high lamp mode? I use low mode and I just hit 400 hours. I have run longer than 4 hours a number of times with no problems.

Tony

Originally posted by John Ballentine
I turned the projector off for about a half hour in-between films.

I'm not sure if long run times is a problem but I have read about a "hot start" hurting the lamp. I try to wait at least 1 hour between run times. Not sure if it helps.

Originally posted by John Ballentine
You may have something here.
I can tell you this. My Panny was perfect - until I watched the Star Wars Trilogy back-to-back. I turned the projector off for about a half hour in-between films. The very next day I noticed my bulb had dimmed considerably. With only 450 hours on it. Panny repair re-placed the bulb under warranty (no charge). But - I'll never run my projector longer than 3-4 hours at a time again.

I've had both a Matrix marathon and a LOTR EE marathon with the PJ (man talk about a way to burn an entire day) with no problems. The thing was though, having heard that this PJ is more sensitive to being turned on and off within a short period of time (and having no idea what is considered a short period of time), I left the PJ on for up to an hour in between while we we ate, sat relaxed, stretched our legs etc. Come to think of it, some time pretty early in the monster AE700 thread, someone mentioned that it would be better to leave the PJ on for an hour while doing a food or beer run than to turn it off and then back on when you got back. Perhaps that might be something for 700 owners to consider?

When I have the time, (and it's been a couple of weeks since I have had the opportunity to use the PJ) I tend to watch at least a whole movie on it, and sometimes 2.

Originally posted by canthony15
John,

Do you run high lamp mode? I use low mode and I just hit 400 hours. I have run longer than 4 hours a number of times with no problems.

Tony

I run low-lamp (and low-fan) mode only.

Originally posted by DB2
I'm not sure if long run times is a problem but I have read about a "hot start" hurting the lamp. I try to wait at least 1 hour between run times. Not sure if it helps.

I think you're right. Common sense tells me letting the projector cool off longer before re-starting has to be better. I should have just left the projector on the whole time (8 hours) - engaging the shutter while we were eating/talking between films.

I run mine 12 - 16 hours a day....TV, movies & Computer....What can I say...Lots of use....1,358 hours...

Sounds to me like some kind of "Panasonic advisory bulletin" would be in order to give users the good-oil on lamp usage. There are too many rumors. I wouldn't have thought that your average user who purchased their projector at a regular retail outlet (and who doesn't log on here) would know squat about the finer points of turn-ON-turn-OFF protocols.

If the lamp is so delicate, that sounds like a design problem to me, as in "Pushing the envelope".

BTW: Can someone remind me how the "secret-secret" menu was accessed? Which button do I hold down to get there. Holding down "ENTER" for 3 seconds at "OSD" gets us to the "EXT" menu, but what's the key for the hidden sub-menu of that? (I'd work it out myself, only... er... my projector is missing).

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

BTW: Can someone remind me how the "secret-secret" menu was accessed? Which button do I hold down to get there. Holding down "ENTER" for 3 seconds at "OSD" gets us to the "EXT" menu, but what's the key for the hidden sub-menu of that? (I'd work it out myself, only... er... my projector is missing).

From the EXT Menu go to PIC SHIFT and press for 5 sec. All will be revealed.

Ah! That's right... thanks canthony15. Which reminds me...

"PIC SHIFT"
Again from the manual:

"- PIC.SHIFT
Switching ON/OFF the antipersistence function
- Shifts the picture slightly (by one dot) when every 60 minutes.
(one dot shifting three times, one dot shifting three times in reverse direction, and repeats them alternately.)"

Yeah, right.

This is obviously to protect the LCD panels from pattern persistence for those who fall asleep in front of the projector during a boring movie, waking up only when they get sick and tired of hearing the same DVD Main Menu music for the three-hundreth time.

Probably a good thing to have it "ON", as Panasonic tell me that LCD panels are $1,000 Australian EACH to replace.

No mention, BTW, that holding down ENTER while highlighting PIC SHIFT accesses any "secret-secret" menu. The version of the manual database disk that I have is "October 2004". Maybe there's a later one?

More on FLICKER Adjustment
According to the manual, it seems the default settings for flicker are all "2E" hex. I suppose they have to start somewhere when the projector is born, so maybe 2E is as good as anything else. On the other hand, it may be that 2E is supposed to be the value you don't deviate from if you can at all help it. There's no explanation for why this is default, and no caveats about trying not to deviate from it too far.

More On the RS232 Comms Software
There are Windows-type buttons for uploading and downloading tables and software. So you can suck out the old software and keep it if you want to fiddle. Same goes for gamma, uniformity and the other RS232-settable parameters. It's not clear from the documentation whether the gamma and uniformity tables are processed within the PC program prior to uploading. I remind you all that a special Panasonic in-line jig is needed to cross-couple the connector from a D9-sub to one of those iddly little white nylon thingmies that live on the edge of the circuit board.

Setting the RGB sub-brightness
The video inputs have software adjustable pots just inside the front doorstep. You need a signal generator and a particular test pattern (see below). However, there are no user tweaks here. You just input the signal and press the "OK" button. The software comes back and asks you,

"Auto sub brightness/contrast adjustment is performed. Is it alright?"

The only options are "OK" or "Cancel" buttons. I suppose you could influence the projector's thinking by racking up the levels of the RGB pattern generator in order to fool it into thinking it was in a brighter, sunnier world than normal (or the reverse). But I'm not going to be the one to try. Any volunteers? KBK, where are you and where is your screwdriver?

Anyway, this is what the manual says:

[Sub Brightness/Contrast] Adjustment Procedure
Display Input Level Adjustment (RGB) menu.
Input a window pattern signal to PC IN (RGB) connector.
Note:
- Use approx. 15 % window pattern as follows.
Black background (screen width) : White window width = 2 : 1
Black background (screen height) : White window height = 3 : 1
Click the OK button.

"Sayonara" all...

I ran a self test and the Iris setting said OK, but IRIS and OK were in RED, whereas all other settings were in green and said OK. Does the red mean something?

Nothing in the manual about red lettering dapdrums. It just says "OK" means it's working:

"IRIS OK - Iris abnormality Check - It is distinguished whether the iris operates normally"

I'm only the Piano Player.

Aussie Bob, is your Iris OK in red or green. BTW I'm on the 1.5 version.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob


Probably a good thing to have it "ON", as Panasonic tell me that LCD panels are $1,000 Australian EACH to replace.



You can order the panels from panasonic on the web for 334.00 US each.

http://www.pasc.panasonic.com/epartr/

under "select by model" enter PT-AE700U. All of the parts and their prices are listed.

Originally posted by dapdrums
I ran a self test and the Iris setting said OK, but IRIS and OK were in RED, whereas all other settings were in green and said OK. Does the red mean something?

I would bet a nickel that RED means that it failed at some point but is now working.

That is my thought too. What the heck though 56 hours and the iris failed at some point. Is there something normal that would cause it to fail? Does everybody keep the iris ON? Somewhere I read that the picture isn't quite as vibrant with it set to ON. I project onto BO cloth (can't afford a screen yet) so I don't have a high gain for starters. If I'm losing additional gain because its ON, perhaps I could do without.

canthony15 said: You can order the panels from panasonic on the web for 334.00 US each.

True, but according to the manual you also need a very brave disposition, a very steady hand, plus a few hours on a spotlessly clean workbench to perform the replacement. US$334 is about A$450, plus 10% tax that would make it A$495 - and that's IF the prices are the same.

Actually, my suspicion (from comparing lamp prices around town) is that Panasonic's service companies mark up 50%. That would make it A$675 for the panel, plus a couple of hours labor ($220) getting to $895. Now add the 10% tax ($89.50) and it all comes out just a few dollars under the A$1,000 I was quoted for a guaranteed replacement. If all three panels are gone, take your projector to the tip. You'd be paying a lot more than the original cost to get it fixed.

I really am starting to think they're not meant to be repaired in any major way. The idea is: "Just buy a new one".

On the red status display: come to think of it, my whole display was red (not just IRIS). I think at one stage it was green. Hmmmmm...

Originally posted by dapdrums
That is my thought too. What the heck though 56 hours and the iris failed at some point. Is there something normal that would cause it to fail? Does everybody keep the iris ON? Somewhere I read that the picture isn't quite as vibrant with it set to ON. I project onto BO cloth (can't afford a screen yet) so I don't have a high gain for starters. If I'm losing additional gain because its ON, perhaps I could do without.

In my experience, the iris does not dim the image. The iris closes down during darker shots. During lighter shots, the contrast ratio appears (is, really) greater, and your own natural "dynamic iris" (pupil) closes down, and blacks look much darker. The worst problems with a mediocre contrast ratio are apparent during dark scenes. Shots that are dark, overall, enlarge your pupil, and without the projector's iris, these darker shots look "grayed out". In essence, the PJ's iris, by closing during dark scenes, is defeating your own, which is trying to allow more more light to enter in a dark environment. This is easy to demonstrate by watching scenes that switch from light to dark shots, first without the iris, then with. It's not a major difference, but you'll see that the lighter scenes are unaffected, and the darker scenes don't look so gray.

Really, I find the iris actually ADDS to the overall perceived "punch", or vibrancy of the image, but you should compare for yourself, of course.

I'm still drooping a bit after my 700's sudden drop in brightness at only 155 hours. It hasn't gotten worse or better after two weeks, and I'm assuming it's the lamp. I'm surprised, and encouraged, to hear that Panasonic replaced John Ballentine's bulb, as his dimming sounds like nothing compared to the full-blown meltdown of AussieBob's lamp. I haven't griped to Panasonic yet, because I was sure they'd just thump the warranty's fine print regarding the lamp. I'm definitely calling them now.

KongFan

Kong Fan.... do it.

Interestingly, the manual does NOT have any procedure for checking lamp brightness.

The whole thing is biased in favour of Panasonic.

YOU report. THEY decide.

No benchmarks to decide lamp lumen output. No (or little) experience with the projector. Vaporous warranty that can be interpreted in any way they feel like it.

I spoke with the Australian national service manager today (Friday afternoon, Sydney time). He told me that the main factor in lamp failure were improper (non-controlled) shutdown and clogged filters. He agreed that the warranty was vague.

I told him that neither of the nominated factors were the case with my lamp. It just melted down. He was still cagey about warranty, but was able to tell me that the lamp had finally been sourced and had been sent to the service organisation. No word on warranty replacement. That was "another department".

Rang the service wing and they said they didn't know about warranty replacement either. The guy whose job it is to process these decisions was "away from his desk" for the day.

Jeez, I hate corporate-speak.

Hi Bob,

How many hours has your proj done?

Mine is sitting on 494 and was told if the lamp was the cause for the brightness flicker - it would be replaced for free because its under 500 hours

Originally posted by KongFan
In my experience, the iris does not dim the image. The iris closes down during darker shots. During lighter shots, the contrast ratio appears (is, really) greater, and your own natural "dynamic iris" (pupil) closes down, and blacks look much darker. The worst problems with a mediocre contrast ratio are apparent during dark scenes. Shots that are dark, overall, enlarge your pupil, and without the projector's iris, these darker shots look "grayed out". In essence, the PJ's iris, by closing during dark scenes, is defeating your own, which is trying to allow more more light to enter in a dark environment. This is easy to demonstrate by watching scenes that switch from light to dark shots, first without the iris, then with. It's not a major difference, but you'll see that the lighter scenes are unaffected, and the darker scenes don't look so gray.

Really, I find the iris actually ADDS to the overall perceived "punch", or vibrancy of the image, but you should compare for yourself, of course.


KongFan
I would have to agree with this 100% I keep my Iris on all the time - and have never once "heard it working" Just the "clunk" on start-up. Can't imagine not using it. Sure hope it keeps working properly. As KongFan says - It really helps with "dark" scenes - They don't look so bright (gray)

Originally posted by zxlr8
Aussie...any word on the new settings for the 1.07 firmware? Like hdcp1, hdcp 2, etc...

Bumpity Bump Bump


"...Aussie Bob Kenobi... you're our only hope..."

Originally posted by KongFan

Really, I find the iris actually ADDS to the overall perceived "punch", or vibrancy of the image, but you should compare for yourself, of course.
KongFan

I have seen post to the contray of this though. Meaning, when the iris is on brighter scenes (e.g. outside day scenes) lack punch.

also, AussieBob if the rep said
---
He told me that the main factor in lamp failure were improper (non-controlled) shutdown and clogged filters.
---

What is defined as a proper - controled shut down?
And how often should the filter be cleaned?
Also,
if you are going to watch 6 hours of video with an 1 hour break in the middle, is the conscensus to close the shutter but leave the projector on to avoid a "hot start"? Is closing the shutter better then letting the projector sit at the blue screen?

It funny to me, I work in the computer field using primarly Windows OS. All my career you wanted to avoid the "Blue Screen of Death". Since getting into the projector arena, given all the bulb issues, I always cross my fingers that I'll turn it on and see the "Blue Screen of Life"!

i'm going to start a poll for AE700 owners, because i keep hearing conflicting statements wheter people are hearing their iris or not...

is that normal if you do? because i hear mine all the time....

it makes that same "chunk" sound all the time

Originally posted by dapdrums
Also,
if you are going to watch 6 hours of video with an 1 hour break in the middle, is the conscensus to close the shutter but leave the projector on to avoid a "hot start"? Is closing the shutter better then letting the projector sit at the blue screen?



For what it's worth I have an opinion. I believe shuttering is a bad idea. I don't know for sure how the panny accomplishes the shuttering. It could darken the panels or close the iris or both. In any case, the energy in the light is going to be absorbed by something inside the projector, making it hotter. I would think a white screen might be the best thing from a thermal point of view. When the lamp operates, some fraction of the 130 watts comes out as energy in the visible light spectrum. The rest just heats up the bulb and conducts/radiates into the PJ innards. I don't know what fraction of the 130 Watts is converted to visible light. When you shutter it, that fraction remains in the PJ and is converted by absorption into heat.
Hot is bad. You could try putting a black panel of some kind close in front of the lense and blasting it with full on white for a few minutes. See how much it warms up.

Tony

Edit: It just occurred to me that they might also reduce the bulb current when shuttered. This would help of course. But they can't reduce it too much or the arc would die. Maybe some experimetation is in order.

Aussie Bob-
did you use the shutter much? (I seem to recall you talking about it in earlier posts)

Could that have been a factor in your bulb meltdown?

Originally posted by aurz
Hi Bob,

How many hours has your proj done?

Mine is sitting on 494 and was told if the lamp was the cause for the brightness flicker - it would be replaced for free because its under 500 hours

I'm just noticing mine is flickering now too. I'm at 525 hours though. If EVERYONEs starts to do this around 500 hours this, we may have some leverage that product is a lemon. I'm pretty pissed right now...I wonder if I would have even noticed it if I didn't read about the flickering on here.

BTW, the shutter function appears to be the LCD panels' blackout. In other words, the LCD panels are going to be trying to absorb the full load of the bulb's output. Just speculation on my part but it might not be a good thing to leave it in shutter mode for too long too often. If you only need a break of less than an hour, I'd say just project a gray screen (as opposed to blue) so none of the panels is used significantly differently from another.

zxir8: I haven't been too worried about software upgrades. I doubt whether the local guys would know anything about particular features. Most of the problems you refer to don't apply to me as I use either RGB or YCrCb. I'll see what I can find out.

bapenguin: My projector has done about 750 hours in "corrected" time (reflects some LAMP HI usage).

AVWH: I use IRIS ON all the time nowadays. There was a period when I experimented with turning it off, when I was using a filter. The theory was that the filter fixed contrast, so the iris might be superfluous.

Nowadays, mostly, I have it on out of habit. I now use an anamorphic lens and that really cleans up the image and increases perception of contrast, which is all the iris does anyway.

I'd like to take gentle issue with the comment above by KongFan that claimed the iris does not darken the image. I get his point that the viewer's iris compensates for the slight modulating effect of the projector's iris and everything pans out about the same in the end.

But, I really do notice the effect of the shutter when it is switched ON, after being OFF for a while, even in brighter scenes, ESPECIALLY in end credits, where the scene is usually smallish pure white type over a black background. Flick the shutter OFF during credits and the picture becomes considerably brighter without losing apparent contrast at all.

That the shutter inappropriately dims end credits (and similar dark scenes with tiny but important bright sections in them) is a fault of the software algorithm I think. That, and the fact that a shutter can only dim the whole picture (or none of it) - no in-betweens. The algorithm doesn't have much in the way of hardware to work with, admittedly.

There appears to be at least a partial a mismatch between the projector's and the human eye's "dark scene detection" algorithms in deciding when to close their respective irises. When they clash, the picture appears to be overly subdued in brightness.

Hello all of you PTAE700 freaks!

As you can see this is my very first post. I'm from a non-english speaing country so if I stuff up don't laugh. I've been reading stuff from this forum for a long time and have to say that some of you had some great ideas. Some weird ones too (blackning out screen?nuts?). By profession I am home automation and home theatre technician. I've installed among others about 150-200 PTAE700's, and right now I can tell you for sure it is a very high quality machine when compared to most of others. All 700's are about at least 95% the same out of the box. Differences are mainly how you set them up, how you look after them (keep filter clean and have airconditioned room...) and if you run in high or low lamp mode. My recomendation is to stick with the low mode. In high you are honestly not gaining much at all, but in high you'll be lucky to get to 1000 hours.

The main reason I'm writting this is Vertical Banding. After I do initial installation in my contract is that I have to come back and recalibrate PJ after 50 hours on the lamp. Any atempt to do flicker adjustment before 50 hours is a waste of time. From pure bulk of machines that go through my hands I came to a conclusion that at least 9 out of 10 PJ's can almost eliminate VB problem if you do following. Make sure that you go from Normal mode with all turned to default (zero) and NR (noise reduction) turned off. Run PJ for at least 1/2 hour and get into "secret menu" flicker adjustment. Select green and do the best you can. If you can't pick between two numbers than pick the lower one. Than select blue and whatever you had for green go one number down. With red go down from green by 4 numbers. Repeat all the numbers for ceiling and desk (a must!). Done. If you still see some minor VB...bad luck, that's the best your PJ will do.

Good luck.:) :) :)

3D Quadrium,

Have you experienced the same results equally with component out? Also, what signal source have you been using?

3D Quadrium,

Thats very nice to pass along the helpfull info. I'm sure all the AE700 owners will appreciate the feedback.

What about ensuring that the units are disconnected from power source when not in use? That has been found to really reduce vertical banding. Have you been suggesting that or designing that into your AE700 threatre installs?

:)

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium
Hello all of you PTAE700 freaks!

As you can see this is my very first post. I'm from a non-english speaing country so if I stuff up don't laugh.
Good luck.:) :) :)

Welcome aboard the board.
Thanks for this info - Many of us have continued with the earlier suggestion of setting the GR and then matching RD and BL to that.

I've little left of flicker problems but this is certainly worth a try.
Is this knowledge gained on the job or do you have deeper knowledge of how the panels are controlled?

What you do know about *why* you recommend the numerical offsets in the channels would be appreciated

I've thought they control the refresh clocks that address the panel columns which I think of as sample sample & holds tied together via phase-locked loops that pass the Control Voltage to the LCD (it is Analog controlled so we've got clocked D/A's in there somewhere and clocks drift).

At the very least it gives me another thing to toy with.

Thanks again,
ted

Seeing it mentioned above, I should mention that I too have just experienced my first flickering, as I have posted on a small thread dedicated to dimming/flickering on the 700. This began last night, at about 160 or so hours (!). The flickering, in my case, really looks like an indecisive iris, appearing during dark scenes and ceasing in light ones, but I can't be sure.

KongFan

Just to clear things:
For this new way of adjusting VB, would this example be correct?

Green 25
Blue 24
Red 21

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium

Repeat all the numbers for ceiling and desk (a must!).


Many thanks to 3D Quadrium (and predecessors!) for the useful infos.

Just a question: does this mean that, in your experience, the flicker setting for the ceiling mount seem to have any influence on the perceived VB when the projector is desk mounted?

Originally posted by KongFan
The flickering, in my case, really looks like an indecisive iris, appearing during dark scenes and ceasing in light ones, but I can't be sure.

KongFan

That is how I would interpret what is going on.
Given the design of the 700's iris it is quite possible particles of dust might be involved. Is this repeatable in specific scenes? Have you tried turning the iris off then on - in effect resetting it? or just leaving it off to see if the flickering continues?
Try turning the Shutter off and on - though that is likely to not have an effect as that is likely post IRIS, electronic control of the panels.
Have you gone as far as turning the unit off?

Have you noticed any temperature relationship? The Iris is quite close to the bulb in the light path (in the light collimating assembly right after the bulb before it enters the beam splitting mirrors) so it is conceivable that heat is impacting on the iris assembly - maybe even affecting any lubrication that might be in the mechanics.

This flickering obviously *is* a problem with this design and I for one do not believe it is entirely a bulb issue - given the reports regarding noticeable Iris artifacts.

ted

Heat observation

I am in construction phase of our HT and was testing the placement of the projector. Back wall shelf versus ceiling - closer - more light from Aussie Bob's suggestions. In setting the projector up, I noticed right away that the fan increases in RPM/noise with the ceiling settings in either low or high fan mode. The position of the case must impact negatively the temperature of the unit. Could this be a factor for some of the problems?

3D Quadrium - in your many installations, have you had more problems with ceiling mounted 700's, and could you comment on the heat issues that you have come across?

I am planning on a ceiling mounted setup, but I will be using a metal shelf to keep the unit upright.

Kevin:

Taking my projector to get the flickering issue sorted out tomorrow.

So soon we will know exactly what causes it. :)

Good luck you're not in Sydney, aurz. Up here giving the runaround seems to be de rigeur.

A few days ago, I made a post about running a SELF TEST, and the IRIS saying OK, but it was in RED not GREEN. I did another self test over the weekend and now it was back to OK in GREEN. Someone suggested that perhaps the RED OK meant it failed at some point, but now was working properly. That may have been the case, but its strange that now its back to green.

I like my ae700, but I've never had a piece of gear subject to so many tricks and oddities. If the ae700 was a DVD, it would have about 1000 "easter eggs".

Originally posted by dapdrums
A few days ago, I made a post about running a SELF TEST, and the IRIS saying OK, but it was in RED not GREEN. I did another self test over the weekend and now it was back to OK in GREEN. Someone suggested that perhaps the RED OK meant it failed at some point, but now was working properly. That may have been the case, but its strange that now its back to green.

I like my ae700, but I've never had a piece of gear subject to so many tricks and oddities. If the ae700 was a DVD, it would have about 1000 "easter eggs".

I had the same problem a few days ago. My IRIS was NG then the next day it was OK in red and the next day it was OK in green. Has been fine ever since.......:confused:

Here's a brand new one for me. About 35 minutes into a DVD last night, my AE700 lost all color. Since it was an animated film I'd not seen before, I first thought it might be how the film was done. So I switched to ESPN-HD to see that the colors were "off" - almost like B&W.

I grabbed my "manual" and went into the flicker tweak menu - and as soon as I did, the color returned! No repeated incidents for the remaining hour+ I had the AE700 on. (I have just over 100 hours on my PJ, FWIW.)

Originally posted by dapdrums
A few days ago, I made a post about running a SELF TEST, and the IRIS saying OK, but it was in RED not GREEN. I did another self test over the weekend and now it was back to OK in GREEN. Someone suggested that perhaps the RED OK meant it failed at some point, but now was working properly. That may have been the case, but its strange that now its back to green.

I like my ae700, but I've never had a piece of gear subject to so many tricks and oddities. If the ae700 was a DVD, it would have about 1000 "easter eggs".

Perhaps RED means it failed recently. Green means it failed a while ago but has been OK since. After it's been working for a sufficient length of time, it goes back to it's normal color. Just a wild guess. You'd think they would explain this in Aussie Bob's service manual. Otherwise its not going to help the service guy much.

IRT 3D Quandrium

I tried your flicker adjustment settings tonight, and starting with normal mode, all settings on zero, no NR - the settings I had previously set were way off, especially the starting green point. So far, so good. I had, what I thought, was more than average VB, and the VB does seem better!

Originally posted by canthony15
Perhaps RED means it failed recently. Green means it failed a while ago but has been OK since. After it's been working for a sufficient length of time, it goes back to it's normal color. Just a wild guess. You'd think they would explain this in Aussie Bob's service manual. Otherwise its not going to help the service guy much.

Last night I had the projector on for a good 3 or 4 hours. I noticed no flickering in picture brightness. I happened to check the Iris in the service menu and all was green.

The other day when I was expierencing flickering, the Iris was OK but Red.....these may be tied together somehow...

Bapenguin, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make in saying "these may be tied together". But, you reiterate my post that one day Iris said OK in red and the next it went back to green.

Originally posted by Sandwedg
IRT 3D Quandrium

I tried your flicker adjustment settings tonight, and starting with normal mode, all settings on zero, no NR - the settings I had previously set were way off, especially the starting green point. So far, so good. I had, what I thought, was more than average VB, and the VB does seem better!

I found a great way to check the flicker. Hold a white piece of paper a few feet away from the lense and do your flicker adjusting. It is very easy to see the flicker against the white sheet of paper. I stumbled across this idea when I was trying to read some text on a piece of paper as I was doing the flicker adjustment - it made the process a lot easier. :)

Quick question - How do you do a self check or system check?

BajaFishin they are menu items in the Ext menu

Seems Panasonic have come to the party in my case. My lamp's meltdown at 750 hours was classed as "Failed: faulty manufacture". No charge for the replacement, or the labor installing it.

Still bitchin' about the 2.5 weeks it took to come to this conclusion, though. Apparently they were not out of lamp stock as I was first advised. Had 'em all the time. It was some warehouse snafu in their parts inventory database (at least that's the official story).

Interesting, that my projector went from "We don't know when we can fix it, and we don't know if it'll be under warranty," yesterday afternoon at 4pm to, "Come and get it. It's fixed for free" this morning at 10am, after just one call by me to Head Office complaining about the delay and the service.

The Panasonic H.O. Parts Manager volunteered to me that Panasonic (at least Australia) DOES have a pro-rata charge scheme for replacement lamps. He couldn't tell me the exact formula off-hand, but early lamp failure replacements, even if out of strict warranty, can still qualify for a pro-rata discount off full replacement price if the hours are lower than 2000 (and if you've treated her right).

Someone above mentioned pro-rata as a potential solution. Whoever it was... you get a cookie.

Glad to hear Panasonic stepped up, Aussie Bob - both for you and all the other AE700 owners who were whispering under their collective breaths, "there but for the grace of God goes my AE700....";)

It's reassuring to know they fixed it for free, instead of having some arbitrary, unpublished number of hours as a threshold that could have left you completely "on your own" - which would have earned Panasonic some very black marks here among AE700 owners - and no doubt dampened demand for this projector, in the process.

Aussie Bob,

Is there any way of knowing if the bulb was the sole thing that was addressed?
If I recall correctly, you mentioned the ballast looked damaged too. If so I would be interested in knowing *why* that might have happened - I seriously doubt there would be enough heat to damage that.

aurz in the "flickering" thread mentioned that his "ballast board" possibly needed replacing to fix his flickering problem and I'm wondering if some of these flickering problems are not related to the ballast and its control, as that is what would be used to keep the bulb in LOW mode. Since its a gas discharge bulb, flickering and/or dimming would result from inefficient arcing if the drive current or voltage is not well regulated, which is the job of the ballast board.

ted

Originally posted by Nascar Dog
I found a great way to check the flicker. Hold a white piece of paper a few feet away from the lense and do your flicker adjusting. It is very easy to see the flicker against the white sheet of paper. I stumbled across this idea when I was trying to read some text on a piece of paper as I was doing the flicker adjustment - it made the process a lot easier. :)

This works fantastic! Much easier to see the flicker and adjust it out. Thanks Nascar!

Tony

Originally posted by tvted
That is how I would interpret what is going on.
Given the design of the 700's iris it is quite possible particles of dust might be involved. Is this repeatable in specific scenes? Have you tried turning the iris off then on - in effect resetting it? or just leaving it off to see if the flickering continues?
Try turning the Shutter off and on - though that is likely to not have an effect as that is likely post IRIS, electronic control of the panels.
Have you gone as far as turning the unit off?

Have you noticed any temperature relationship? The Iris is quite close to the bulb in the light path (in the light collimating assembly right after the bulb before it enters the beam splitting mirrors) so it is conceivable that heat is impacting on the iris assembly - maybe even affecting any lubrication that might be in the mechanics.

ted

Just now checked in, thanks tvted for your response.

I'm not sure I follow you about the dust/iris relationship. I'll have to check to see if the same flicker pattern occurs upon replaying a scene. I tried toggling the iris on and off when the recent, sudden dimming of the overall image occurred, as posted a few days ago, but haven't had a chance to try it since the flickering started (I had an audience for a long-planned viewing, and just gritted my teeth and let the dim, flickering show go on). The flickering episodes seem, in retrospect, to have tapered off after the 700 had been on for about a half hour, so there might indeed be a temperature factor. I haven't tried turning it off, since so many AVS'rs have put the fear of god into me about restarting it shortly after shutting it down. I don't know if that's really a hazard, do you?

Unless my 700 has a miraculous recovery when I check it tonight, I'm going to send it in for service. I think these symptoms qualify as a serious problem. I also have a supernova of a dust speck on one of the dichroic mirrors (they show up as faint, defocused, colored disks against a dark background, which I mention in case anyone else is has this problem and is puzzled by it). I'll mention it as well when I get it serviced.

I'll post my experience with requesting warranty service.

KongFan

(edited for minor error)

Originally posted by KongFan
Just now checked in, thanks tvted for your response.

I'm not sure I follow you about the dust/iris relationship.
KongFan

My thinking (limited as it is) is that since the Iris (if that is the source of the flickering) is a mechanical device - an open device - which consists of gears, axles and thingamajigs ;) so it *is* possible that dust can gum up the works.

These are the kind of things I would say to service if I were talking to Panasonic.

In fact though, I believe most of these reports are likely to have an underlying electrical cause, and I would suspect the voltage regulation from the lamp ballast control board.

ted

Originally posted by dapdrums
Bapenguin, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make in saying "these may be tied together". But, you reiterate my post that one day Iris said OK in red and the next it went back to green.

My point is the flickering may be caused by some failure with the Iris.

tvted
"voltage regulation from the lamp ballast control board"
Yikes! I have around 670 hours on mine and no flickering, although I am starting to get paranoid enough that any little flicker is freaking me out!

I'm aware of the "hundred hour" syndrome with new lamps, but I'd forgotten (or maybe I never knew) just how bright these projectors can be.

I really don't remember my AE700 being so overwhelmingly rich as it is now that the new lamp is in. Makes me wonder whether my lamp was always underachieving.

I've decided to start making spot meter light readings of the screen with the SERVICE mode white screen, every hundred hours or so. I'll graph the results over time.

The "meltdown" (as it was described to me) wasn't as dramatic to my amateur eye as the service tech represented it. There was a hole in the side of the reflector around the little wire at the side. Quite small, about 2mm in diameter. On second thoughts, this reflects my naiveity about lamps, rather than any over-dramatizing on behalf of the tech. I'd expected to see a molten mass, but all in all, unless it had been pointed out to me (and I had another to compare my old lamp against) I wouldn't have seen it, or known it for the disaster it was. Score one for the guy with experience.

They didn't let me take the old lamp away so I can't post a picture. But I did do one naughty thing.

Seeing as the old lamp was going to be junked as soon as it was returned to Panasonic HQ under warranty, I deliberately touched the front coated IR filter with a big greasy thumb. It left a perfect CSI-type print. No amount of rubbing with a cleaning cloth would get it off. The thumb print impregnated the coating instantly, solidified straightaway, and became an integral part of it.

Either that coating is incredibly fragile or I have molecular acid for blood.

They're really not joking when they say "DON'T TOUCH!" the glass if you're replacing the lamp yourself. Doing so would inflict a tremendous amount of damage. Actually, I'd go further: I wouldn't even look at it.

A VERY touch-o-phobic piece of glass.

Oh sure Bob, now everyone has to check their bulbs for a 2mm hole while not touching the IR filter! You know we do!

Aussie Bob,

Its probably too early to be asking about filtering the new bulb, but does anything different regarding color temp stand out.

....and oh, by the way, we really do have acid coming from our fingers. That's why its not good to handle photographs with a "naked" hand. The acid will literally eat up the picture. What's funny is it will sometimes leave a perfect "CSI" finger print.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

I've decided to start making spot meter light readings of the screen with the SERVICE mode white screen, every hundred hours or so. I'll graph the results over time.



A great idea. Objective measurements at intervals would be very interesting.

If my 700's considerable dimming, which has not seemed to worsen since its surprising, sudden onset at 155 hours, is merely the transition into the lamp's "second stage" (and not a defect), then I'm REALLY depending on the remaining dimming to go VERY slowly. As it is, I'm going to have to shorten my throw, and reduce my image size substantially to regain the brightness I had become spoiled by. This will... suck. If my 700's dimming is standard, I must assume that savvy owners of a new PJ always know better than to count on the lamp's initial brightness when determining the optimum screen size. If no one has done so, it would be interesting to try to determine a standard "backing off" percentage, with which new PJ owners could find their optimum screen size with the new lamp, then reduce that size by a certain amount to a size likely to be better suited to the lamp's "broken-in" brightness.

If my lamp DOES turn out to be defective, and standard "breaking-in" is usually more subtle, then forget everything I just said.

By the way, I'm sure I'm not alone in being glad to hear that Panasonic has taken care of your unfortunate situation.

KongFan

PS Thanks tvted for your last response.

Originally posted by KongFan
A great idea. Objective measurements at intervals would be very interesting.


I agree,
It is important that we include our 16:9 screen width (not diagonal) as this would allow for easy Foot Lambert calcs. if we assume a 1.00 gain screen.

It would also be helpful if the figures are measured in LUX preferably or Foot Candles for those who don't have a LUX capable meter.

It must be done as an Incident Light measurement at the screen plane and should not be a Reflected measurement.

ted

I got my ae700 yesterday and connected my pc and h-10 satellite receiver using Gefen 2x1 HD Switcher. Satellite picture is beautiful but no picture from PC. I was getting good picture from my PC set to 854 x480 RADEON X800 Graphics card connected yesterday to Infocus 4805.

I use following configuration(s):

P4 3.2 htpc with ATI RADEON X800 Graphics Card dvi/hdmi adapter.

ae700 1.5 firmware

GEFEN EXT-HDMI-241 2x1 HD Switcher
I
read here that AUTO SET helps I tried AUTO SET SPECIAL but no picture.
what should I change in the menu to get this work I have not watch dvd yet on this gorgeus pj because of this problem.

Thanks

hi
I tried to reduce vb with the flicker adj and nothing changed, is there another way to reduce vb?
Thank's.

My observations at 100 hours use.

Before I start, my room is still incomplete and all use has been projecting onto walls in my lounge or at friends places.

VB - I only ever had a tiny amount of VB and that totally disappeared in the last 30 hours or so. I specifically did NOT adjust anything in this regard as I wanted the pj to settle down before tweaking. Now I don't need to.

Flicker - Now this is curious. I have not seen any flicker, unless I go into the test screens and even there only on occasions. Sometimes it's there, sometimes not. This maybe related to it being moved around a fair bit. Or not. I always make sure the unit is stone cold before moving it and always repackage it into it's original box and foam. Again I have not adjusted ANYTHING to do with tweaking.

I have been using low lamp mode and will continue to use it. I figure that if this is as bright as the globe is going to be and that it will dim, I will have an option to brighten it.

Wall colours make a big difference(ok, obvious you say) and I can see how the filter is going to make a difference. I projected onto a light blue wall recently and YUK. Gave me a headache. White walls are good but an apricotish one recently was most excellent. (Could almost call it salmon pink;) ) Ordering my filter today.:)

I'm using VGA from my HTPC and will continue to do so. I have seen or heard no good reason to go HDMI. Pixel perfect NO over or underscan. Everything fits perfectly. Oh and I love the "force 720p" checkbox in the newer ATI drivers. So cool.

Noise? What noise. At a friends recently, when I turned the unit off and the fan sped up, he was surprised that the fan had been on all along.

People go wow. Everytime.:D

I have a LunaSix, a Pentax Spot meter and a lux meter. I usually use all three to take measurements and correlate their readings together.

I was actually thinking of taking relative measurements over time, not absolute ones, so I could see the differences... but the absolute measurement suggestion has merit. Screen size will be very important, given that the zoom changes f-stop with size. The relative differences will be the crunch factor, I think, because of that. too many variables otherwise.

An allegorical tale...

When my car was new I used to make fuel consumption measurements. They showed two distinct patterns regarding city versus country use, as expected. It wasn't until I stopped (having worked out that the factory predictions were somewhat optimistic) that fuel consumption started dying. Turned out to be an airflow sensor that was malfunctioning. That $200 sensor probably cost me 000's in extra fuel over 18 months after I stopped measuring consumption. I just wrote off the inefficiency to "short trips". It finally tanked completely in the middle of the Great Strzlecki Desert of South Australia: 600 kilometres from the nearest mechanic. That was a very slow trip back. We ended up using one litre of fuel per 4 kilometres (in a car that would do 1 litre per 12 kilometres under normal conditions). In the middle of a desert. Luckily we had GPS, and knew where the water wells were. We were able to filch fuel from passers by on occasion. Damn car was a Subaru, too. Forester.

And all this was because I stopped logging fuel consumption.

I tell you all this because I'm certain it's gonna happen with the new lamp. As soon as I get tired of taking measurements, the damn thing will go pop on me. Nothing surer.

I managed to print the manual to a PDF file. It's big: 20 meg. This is because a lot of it is TIF and JPG scans of a printed version (especially diagrams). there is some text in vector format, but mostly it's just memory hungry scans. Hence the large file size.

I don't have a website. But if anyone does have one, is wealthy, altruistic and doesn't mind volunteering its bandwidth for 20 meg downloads (possibly quite a lot of them), send me a PM and I'll upload it to you for distribution to the masses.

(No fakers, please)

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
I managed to print the manual to a PDF file. It's big: 20 meg. This is because a lot of it is TIF and JPG scans of a printed version (especially diagrams). there is some text in vector format, but mostly it's just memory hungry scans. Hence the large file size.

(No fakers, please)
You're a brave man, don't suppose you noticed the copyright warnings, gulp! :confused:

Originally posted by ptek
You're a brave man, don't suppose you noticed the copyright warnings, gulp! :confused:

I second that Bob,
Panasonic Canada charges about $150 Cndn and are only supposed to sell to dealers so I'm not so sure Panasonic International will take so kindly to this.

ted

Hello all of you again!

Sorry for not responding to some people with questions. I've been so busy latley and did not get a chance to get on the net. Few quick answers: turning projector off to reduce VB? I have no idea. I don't own a PTAE700 (I own a 3 chip DLP from Marantz) so I couldn't tell you but if you think that 700 uses 5 watts of power on stand buy, that would amount to lots of money through out the year for just being lazy...so turn it off. I really hope that many of you tried my "recepie" to reduce VB. To my customers it works very good. With this projector I would quite strongly suggest to run component, especially if you have cable runs longer than 7-8 meters. In my opinion on this unit HDMI is still in its infancy and if you set your PJ properly component will give you the best results when it comes to quality vs troubles. One tweak that nobody has mentioned on this tread is NR (noise reduction). It is in options menu and if you turn it ON it will reduce many many artifacts, so you can use this to your advantage to increase sharpness in you main menu to -1 or -2 (depending of how big your screen is). Some people earlier on this tread suggested -6. With NR turned ON and sharpness higher you will see more sharp and clean artifact free images. Last suggestion for now would be this... This PJ works the best with non-progressive signals, because it likes to use internas deinterlacing module. Considering that fact is you will get the best performance (picture) if you use DVD player wich outputs 540 or 550 lines non-progressive (regular DVD players do only 480). Look into Toshiba, Pioneer, Sony... with 540+ lines. Cheers!!!:) ;) :D

By the way in the case you didn't know and for all that's worth, last week I found out from my local Panasonic tech (friend of a very good friend), the only real and small improvement between firmware 1.05 to 1.07 is better colour balance on "straight out of box" scenario. Simply... they tried to make it look a little better when you first turn it on and didn't fix VB. That's all.

Cheers.

It's in Panasonic's interest that power users know what they're doing. I think it would save Panasonic a lot of wasted time. Most of the stuff in the manual has been worked out by subscribers here, anyway. And I hardly think anyone's gonna copy the circuits. Lastly, it's not for sale. It's a public service.

So all of us ae700 owners pick up a HDMI outputing DVD player or a prog scan DVD player, and 3D Quadrium is suggesting an old school 480i (non prog player) is optimal!? Wow, if that is true I wish I would have put the dvd money into a screen.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
It's in Panasonic's interest that power users know what they're doing. I think it would save Panasonic a lot of wasted time. Most of the stuff in the manual has been worked out by subscribers here, anyway. And I hardly think anyone's gonna copy the circuits. Lastly, it's not for sale. It's a public service.

Bob, I agree with you completely and was *not* suggesting you were asking for recompense and I'm sorry if I implied that.

I inquired about purchasing it here in the land of the north and was dismayed by the price - not to mention the fact that they didn't want to sell it to end users. Pissed me off because I like guidance when I stick a metal object into something that conducts electricity. First time I've ever encountered a manufacturer that wasn't *eager* to make the extra dollars from selling one.

again I agree with you a service manual *is* a public service - unfortunately *they* own it

ted

Originally posted by KongFan
If my 700's considerable dimming, which has not seemed to worsen since its surprising, sudden onset at 155 hours, is merely the transition into the lamp's "second stage" (and not a defect), then I'm REALLY depending on the remaining dimming to go VERY slowly. As it is, I'm going to have to shorten my throw, and reduce my image size substantially to regain the brightness I had become spoiled by. KongFan


I'm at about 400 hours and in the last 200 my bulb has lost about a stop, which I guess is its half- power point which is where, I've read somewhere or other, it should remain for a while. Now this does present something of a dilemma. With an Anamorphic lens plus a filter (which I'm about to calibrate for) there is another stop plus of light loss. Unless the amps have enough overhead to allow me to compensate for the filter's light loss I'm looking at well below the recommended SMPTE guidelines - not that *that* is my goal necessarily. I do know it is possible to enjoy a good picture at lower than recommended levels (see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=530765)) but the room becomes an increasingly large part of the equation. I personally have always planned for a dark room but unless you are a mole or a basement dweller like me then there might be concerns if you want to optimize your 700's image.

I too have noticed (or at least "feel') that there has been a loss of CR because of dimming. Some reviews, where the device was calibrated, have suggested that HIGH mode is optimum for CR. My initial plans were to run the PJ in LOW mode until its "half-power' mark and then switch to HIGH. However, if I continue with the amount of glass in front of the lens I might not be satisfied, and like Aussie Bob surrender my filter (the anamorphic stays buddy) to the wilds of out of the box (aged a little for flavors).

I've also got to get rid of this damn B/O cloth screen which I *know* has negative gain and has been temporary for too long. However, that is not going to restore the lumens coming out of the PJ - at least not to the extent that I might want. It almost makes me wish the bulb would die damn it die, so that I can experience that fresh bulb thrill that Bob is now glowing in.

Let's see..... jobs list
1) SMARTen up
2) Make screen
3) Paint room darker
4) Add curtains and baffling
50 Pay bills

Sigh,
maybe I'll watch a movie between now and Sept.
;)

Btw, Kongfan (if you haven't moved on to a more useful post)
I longingly look at those Ray Harryhausen collections every time I'm in my fave DVD retailer (I'm on a poor boy's budget).
Some of us still care about the human hand.

ted

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium

By the way in the case you didn't know and for all that's worth, last week I found out from my local Panasonic tech (friend of a very good friend), the only real and small improvement between firmware 1.05 to 1.07 is better colour balance on "straight out of box" scenario. Simply... they tried to make it look a little better when you first turn it on and didn't fix VB. That's all.

Cheers.

You mean they didn't just look at it and see that skin tones look sunburned, yellows are fluro, blacks go purple and grass looks like Astroturf?..

It may be that I'm new to this boys, but 80 pages in and we're still trying to get this projector to render a natural colour balance OTB.

Is it asking too much that Panasonic do this colour balance fix BEFORE they ship?...

Originally posted by blownpixel
You mean they didn't just look at it and see that skin tones look sunburned, yellows are fluro, blacks go purple and grass looks like Astroturf?..

It may be that I'm new to this boys, but 80 pages in and we're still trying to get this projector to render a natural colour balance OTB.

Is it asking too much that Panasonic do this colour balance fix BEFORE they ship?...

Hey blownpixel, when you've actually got something to add to the tweak thread, feel free to post.

Thread-crapping doesn't really do much for those looking to get the most out of their projector, and I doubt Panasonic will respond to your rhetorical question. (IIRC from your other post - you don't own an AE700, do you?)

If you care to do a search in this thread, you'll find that some of us have outstanding colors, deep blacks, etc. - and all it took was a little tweaking, using the constructive posts in this thread to accomplish that, for the most part.

I fully understand and appreciate that.

But the question I am asking is relevenat to the next generation isn't it?

What happened to digital being 'plug and play'? It appears from the 80+ pages of this thread that digital is now play and dick around and dick around some more.

If I wanted that I'd buy CRT.

Originally posted by blownpixel
I fully understand and appreciate that.

But the question I am asking is relevenat to the next generation isn't it?

What happened to digital being 'plug and play'? It appears from the 80+ pages of this thread that digital is now play and dick around and dick around some more.

If I wanted that I'd buy CRT.

CRT would cost 3-5x what the AE700 costs - and you'd get half the screen size, at most (if you're talking RPTV; for FPTV, you're talking regular re-calibrations).

Maybe you need more perfection out of the box - which is probably available at a higher pricepoint - say, the $10-15K projectors. (Though I bet the vast majority of those are done as professional installations - so there's additional cost for that.)

This is more the do-it-yourself thread - as it could well be expected to be, at this pricepoint, IMO.

I don't want to derail this discussion because this thread has been so helpful for owners.

But it must be said: Thousands of words have been written now trying to get this machine to look adequate out of the box - and it's not adequate unless heavily modified, filtered, upgraded and tweaked - entry level or not, is this what we should expect now?

Wasn't digital the solution to CRT 'maintenance'? Am I wrong to expect 'plug and play?'

Will the next Panasonic projector show the same issues; requiring another 80+ pages and thousands of words of advice of advice trying to help owners (at their expense) rectify what Panasonic got wrong at the factory?

And I'm not after perfection - I'm after adequate trouble-free viewing for more than a couple of hundred hours. And after reading today that TVTED is claiming a 50% drop off in light at merely the 400 hour mark..

Like I said elsewhere - I'm scared to put the money down.

But I'm done boys, enjoy your tweaking and tinkering.

This is beginning to feel like a very short-term invesment.

To each his own.

I have spent all of $75 and maybe 1 hour actually tweaking to get a PQ I'm very happy with.

This thread is so long not b/c the AE700 is lousy - but b/c it's so popular, and has so much potential.

Is it perfect out of the box? Certainly not.
Does the manual tell us everything it should? Nope - that's why this thread has grown, too.

Just a little more perspective may be necessary than "oh my god, there's problems, the thread is so long, it must be impossible to get a good PQ".

(BTW, show me how many other purportedly "plug and play" components, especially in the computer world, are truly just plug and play.)

Originally posted by blownpixel
I don't want to derail this discussion because this thread has been so helpful for owners.

But it must be said: Thousands of words have been written now trying to get this machine to look adequate out of the box - and it's not adequate unless heavily modified, filtered, upgraded and tweaked - entry level or not, is this what we should expect now?

Wasn't digital the solution to CRT 'maintenance'? Am I wrong to expect 'plug and play?'

Will the next Panasonic projector show the same issues; requiring another 80+ pages and thousands of words of advice of advice trying to help owners (at their expense) rectify what Panasonic got wrong at the factory?

And I'm not after perfection - I'm after adequate trouble-free viewing for more than a couple of hundred hours. And after reading today that TVTED is claiming a 50% drop off in light at merely the 400 hour mark..

Like I said elsewhere - I'm scared to put the money down.

But I'm done boys, enjoy your tweaking and tinkering.

This is beginning to feel like a very short-term invesment.

Yes I claimed such, but unlike you I've done my research and as I stated this is expected within the normal life of a PJ bulb - it is precisely the reason that calibration is *not* recommended until after about 100 or 150 hrs or so of operation. *If* you had a real argument and had read what I actually wrote I am utilizing the 700 in extreme - I am adding two layers in front of the existing lens and I fully expected what happened - again because I did my research. Normal usage of the 700 will not be as demanding.

Anyone who gives the time of day to what I post will be aware that taking me seriously is a drunkard's bet at best. That was a lament dude and in fact not all of us like bright pics but prefer good CR calibrated for D65K.

Please don't use me as source to support your arguments which, for me, are specious and certainly inappropriate for this thread. You have started a thread with thes thoughts in mind - I believe that is the appropriate place for this harangue, What you say *may* have merit but can be applied to all PJ's at this price level. Perhaps you really should be asking yourself whether FP is right for you. I'd suggest more research - if you care to ask questions there are many among us who will be willing to help. This thread answers many questions, and I would like it to remain a *solutions* thread - little asides are fine now and then - we need them - but I personally would like you to continue this discussion in the thread you established.

Before you ask whether the 700 should be recalled I *do* suggest you need to do a little more research. Don't you think it somewhat bold to be registered for 1 day and taking such an aggressive stance? As I said earlier much of what we in this thread are dealing with is the nature of the beast hereabouts. Remember, we in these parts are *nuts* and will beat an "issue" to death - its in our character as fanatics.

Don't leave the forum though - a little research will be enlightening - it took me a year before I made the plunge and only recently have I become downright mouthy. See some PJ's in a proper setting. After this you might yet discover that FP is not for you but the path might be interesting.

trying to be not too harsh,
ted

TVTED and others, I feel the dim pain you are experiencing. :o At around 300 hrs I thought the image had lost a little of it's punch. By 400-450 I knew that it was fading and at 550 now since November of last year, it has appeared to stabilize but with far less "pop" than it once had. I feel slightly disappointed here considering how long the bulb is supposed to last. Nobody said it would last up to 3000hrs but 2500 of them would be dim!

I also am using BO cloth which seemed plenty adequate at the time. Infact, I gloated at how much I had saved by building this cheap screen with a little DIY elbow grease. Now I am left wondering if a higher gain screen would have been the better option? There is a definite loss in shadow detail because of this as well. I used to run my 700 in Normal mode but have switched to Dynamic to perceive more brightness. Trouble with that is Dynamic lends a yellow hue to skin tones. My basic tweaking abilities help some but not enough. The Cinema modes are WAY too dark now for my tastes and this is in a total light control basement setting.

I guess it is good to know others are experiencing the same, as I thought I just had a faulty bulb. The image still isn't horrible, just not what I was used to.

Brian

Originally posted by Jcam9
TVTED and others, I feel the dim pain you are experiencing. :o At around 300 hrs I thought the image had lost a little of it's punch. By 400-450 I knew that it was fading and at 550 now since November of last year, it has appeared to stabilize but with far less "pop" than it once had. I feel slightly disappointed here considering how long the bulb is supposed to last. Nobody said it would last up to 3000hrs but 2500 of them would be dim!

I also am using BO cloth which seemed plenty adequate at the time. Infact, I gloated at how much I had saved by building this cheap screen with a little DIY elbow grease. Now I am left wondering if a higher gain screen would have been the better option? There is a definite loss in shadow detail because of this as well. I used to run my 700 in Normal mode but have switched to Dynamic to perceive more brightness. Trouble with that is Dynamic lends a yellow hue to skin tones. My basic tweaking abilities help some but not enough. The Cinema modes are WAY too dark now for my tastes and this is in a total light control basement setting.

I guess it is good to know others are experiencing the same, as I thought I just had a faulty bulb. The image still isn't horrible, just not what I was used to.

Brian

I'm not feeling any pain - well ok a twinge - but this is the nature of UHP bulbs - they reach a half power point - with any luck it will stabilize. Secondly DYNAMIC mode blows - GAMMA, SHARPNESS, colour balance, suck, and have from the beginning - its the 700's "torch mode" to be avoided by discriminating users everywhere.:D

Paint the B/O cloth - the stuff is negative gain at best and should be temporary in the way that toilet paper is temporary. I wonder how many of us crying the blues (like me) are using B/O cloth - paint it with BEHR UPW per the Screen forum.

Look through the threads for Tweaks re the NORMAL mode - it is *not* that far off out of the box. If you don't own a calibration disk - get one, there is a lot more room to adjust CONTRAST (Master White gain) and BRIGHTNESS (Master Black Level) than the factory settings or some of the non-filter tweaks I've read.

Consider changing your bulb to HIGH.
It *is* a standard part of PJ ownership - this is a very common complaint.

Oh,
and my "nom de monitor" in all caps just looks all too weird.
Scary too. :D
ted

Hi guys and gals, 700 freaks!

I don't know how to suggest any stronger that I already have: "don't use hi lamp mode". In November 2004 I installed PTAE700 in one of the pubs where people smoke quite a bit and PJ is ON for 12 hours every day. After the bulb had 300 hours all I had to do is turn brightness and contrast up a little. Bulb now has more than 2500 hours without any major change. Keep you filters clean and run in low mode...nothing to worry about. Most of you will go over 3000 without a hassle.

Cheers:) :) :)

I have been in high mode from the start with fan on normal and neglected cleaning the filter until 350hrs. About the time I noticed my picture fading. Did I sink my own ship??

@ 3D Quadrium:

Sorry for repeating this question, but just to see if I understand your Flicker Tweak correctly:

I should turn Green to where it' s not flickering (or close).
Then set Blue to same as Green, minus 1.
Then set Red same as Green, minus 4.

For example:
Green 24
Blue 23
Red 20

Have I understood you correctly?

Hello.

I've an AE700, and have an 15m supra HDMI cable and a denon 3910.

This is my second atempt with an AE700. In the first one (in september-octobre 2004) i turn it back because of the 'white flash' issue (solved with the new firmware), and now I have bought it again with the new firmware, and found a synchro problem (every 4 seconds or so).

The first time and with the same cable and dvd player (and an ae700 PJ with the old firmware) this problem didn't occur at all. Only occurs in HDMI connection

What can I do ?

ricardofelisbert
Have you tried another HDMI cable?

I haven't, but with this same cable, and the same dvd player, i got no problem before... only the white flash.

I think that the problem isn't the supra cable. Somehow the dvdplayer and the PJ aren't connecting the way they should.

Remenber that even the PJ is the same model, only a different one (was made in 03/2005) with the 1.07 firmware ...

You must start somewhere, and the cable is the most common source of such troubles. It could also be the 3910, or the ae700, of course.

Hello.

I've an AE700, and have an 15m supra HDMI cable and a denon 3910.

This is my second atempt with an AE700. In the first one (in september-octobre 2004) i turn it back because of the 'white flash' issue (solved with the new firmware), and now I have bought it again with the new firmware, and found a synchro problem (every 4 seconds or so).

The first time and with the same cable and dvd player (and an ae700 PJ with the old firmware) this problem didn't occur at all. Only occurs in HDMI connection

What can I do ?


Supra had some issues with longer HDMI cables (over 10m I think), and they didn't work properly. I think the problem is solved now, but if the HDMI cable is more than a couple of months old I would think that's where your problem is.

Originally posted by Jcam9
I have been in high mode from the start with fan on normal and neglected cleaning the filter until 350hrs. About the time I noticed my picture fading. Did I sink my own ship??

Ack...I probably clean my filter every 75-100 hours...i'm obsessive about it. Everytime I clean it there's hardly any dust though. Only the first initial cleaning had it.

Originally posted by tvted
I'm at about 400 hours and in the last 200 my bulb has lost about a stop, which I guess is its half- power point which is where, I've read somewhere or other, it should remain for a while. Now this does present something of a dilemma. With an Anamorphic lens plus a filter (which I'm about to calibrate for) there is another stop plus of light loss. Unless the amps have enough overhead to allow me to compensate for the filter's light loss I'm looking at well below the recommended SMPTE guidelines - not that *that* is my goal necessarily. I do know it is possible to enjoy a good picture at lower than recommended levels (see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=530765)) but the room becomes an increasingly large part of the equation. I personally have always planned for a dark room but unless you are a mole or a basement dweller like me then there might be concerns if you want to optimize your 700's image.

I too have noticed (or at least "feel') that there has been a loss of CR because of dimming. Some reviews, where the device was calibrated, have suggested that HIGH mode is optimum for CR. My initial plans were to run the PJ in LOW mode until its "half-power' mark and then switch to HIGH. However, if I continue with the amount of glass in front of the lens I might not be satisfied, and like Aussie Bob surrender my filter (the anamorphic stays buddy) to the wilds of out of the box (aged a little for flavors).

I've also got to get rid of this damn B/O cloth screen which I *know* has negative gain and has been temporary for too long. However, that is not going to restore the lumens coming out of the PJ - at least not to the extent that I might want. It almost makes me wish the bulb would die damn it die, so that I can experience that fresh bulb thrill that Bob is now glowing in.

ted

I've been hesitant to post anymore about my dimming/flashing experience on this tweak thread, both because there's a newer thread on the specific subject, and because I haven't really come up with anything qualifying as a "tweak" to offer for rectifying the problem. However, since so much discussion has opened on the subject here, I'll make one last post, for now, including the measures I plan to take.

I've decided to assume, for now, that my 700's dimming is due to having passed the lamp's normal "break-in" period, and that it's merely a quirk of luck that mine occurred so suddenly, so early (155 hours). After hearing of so many others with similar dimming, I guess it's mostly a matter of a newbie like me being surprised by the degree, and poor advance planning on my part re: screen size, environment, etc.

My flashing problem, which showed up within a couple of hours of the sudden dimming, seems to have MOSTLY cleared up, mysteriously and fortunately. This, despite the fact that I'm now neurotically watching for it. I'll post any updates over on the dimming/flashing thread (I still don't know how to put a link here).

Assuming my 700's brightness stabilizes at its present level, here are the changes I will make to accomodate it:

PLAN A:

-Reduction in image size, and correspondingly closer seating. This might include reworking my setup for a much shorter throw, based on AussieBob's observation, confirmed by his measurements, that this will get more light on the screen. I still don't understand it, but I'll try it.

-High lamp setting only.

-Reduction of remaining ambient light, including as much darkening of room surfaces as possible, while seeking to maintain that fragile cinematic bliss/marital dysfunction equilibrium.

PLAN B:

-Win lottery

-Stockpile fresh lamps, blithely discarding each at 100 hours.

KongFan

PS: tvted- Without having used one myself, I thought anamorphic lenses had the effect of INCREASING brightness, or at least compensating for any loss, by including the portion of the image that would otherwise be wasted in the black letterbox areas. Is that not true?

KongFan, I agree with you completely. My bulb now seems to have stabilized at 550hrs. No more brightness flicker either. Maybe once every couple movies but pretty limited now. I do fee slightly cheated with the dim picture compared to how spoiled and amazed I originally was with the picture.

I have been hanging out in the screen forum and think I will try to paint my BO cloth to raise the gain slightly. I will post results when that happens.

Are you seriously suggesting that a *tweak* for the Pansonic AE-700 is to reduce screen size and get closer?

From where I come from that's not a tweak - that's called televsion.

Maybe Panasonic should start offering a juice extractor with the 700.

Originally posted by KongFan


PLAN A:

-Reduction in image size, and correspondingly closer seating. This might include reworking my setup for a much shorter throw, based on AussieBob's observation, confirmed by his measurements, that this will get more light on the screen. I still don't understand it, but I'll try it.

Originally posted by blownpixel
Are you seriously suggesting that a *tweak* for the Pansonic AE-700 is to reduce screen size and get closer?

From where I come from that's not a tweak - that's called televsion.

Maybe Panasonic should start offering a juice extractor with the 700.

Grumpy old curmudgeon:

Good grief, put on your glasses. I said I DIDN'T have anything qualifying as a tweak on the matter, so I'd post further observations on another thread.

You should read posts more carefully before spouting out all your knee-jerk responses. I think you've blown more than a pixel. Do you even own an AE700?

Anyway, I thought you said you were done!

How 'bout that, folks. My first defensive response! What a milestone!

The rest of you:

I Forgot to mention on my list: One other step I'll probably take will be to change my (lens) filter, as the image color appears, unsurprisingly, to have shifted noticeably with the dimming. I read some posts previously cautioning to expect this as lamps dim. Perhaps other filter-tweakers, whose 700's have gone into the less-bright phase, are seeing the same. This will be easy for me to fool around with, as I'm currently using the free, less-than-perfectly-accurate Lee samples, and can simply pull another out of the swatch book. I'll post any success/failure on the filter thread.

Sorry for wasting space with my snide retort.

KongFan

Originally posted by KongFan
Grumpy old curmudgeon:

KongFan

Sometimes us old guys just gotta stand up. ;)

I wanted to ask some further questions of you.
I see you are using a filter - self calibrated?

What size of screen are you using? Unpainted B/O cloth?
If so that is where I would start.
Since you use a filter is it safe to assume you've calibrated with master black (BRIGHTNESS) and master white (CONTRAST) for VIDEO levels with BTB and WTW in mind? This would be per Chris Wiggle's thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606).

My box is using the 81EF with published settings (just got my SMART - no time to play). I found there was still plenty of room in BRIGHTNESS and CONTRAST using DVE which I prefer for these type of settings.

The following links are in depth and might be too technical for many of us but I'm sure most of us here can grasp the ideas.

Thread one (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528111)
Thread two (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=530765)

Lastly and most importantly - do you have the gist of how GAMMA works and have you played with it because I would like to discuss it and how I believe it can be helpful?

That is, of course, in addition to room control and a higher gain screen - B/O cloth is *negative* btw in case you've not seen my earlier mutterings. ;)

I just remembered - this loss of apparent detail and CR with the "great dimming" - is this primarily in dark movies, low APL scenes, or is it the whites that have lost their sparkle?

ted

Originally posted by KongFan
PS: tvted- Without having used one myself, I thought anamorphic lenses had the effect of INCREASING brightness, or at least compensating for any loss, by including the portion of the image that would otherwise be wasted in the black letterbox areas. Is that not true?

The luminance gain is derived form utilizing the panel fully, once your scaler has eliminated the black bars. This amounts to the 33% of the pixels that are devoted to the bars in 2.35 movies. There is the minimal 5% transmission loss by going through the lens. my Lens (the Prismasonic HT 1000) has a pass-through mode which leaves the glass in place (one of the reasons I purchased it). Thus unless I move the lens out of the way I still suffer that loss of 5% with 16:9 and 4:3.

I was being hyperbolic and you know what its like when an old man gets to lamenting his loss - every foot lambert counts when your bulb is diminishing.

What? You expect perspective and a sense of proportion from we who post on these forums? :D

I'm better though - after a day of overindulgence in FIREFLY (which is shot at low APL in many scenes) and playing with my BLACK bias, master black (BRIGHTNESS) and LOW GAMMA - I've some suggestions - see my earlier post.

ted

Originally posted by KongFan


I Forgot to mention on my list: One other step I'll probably take will be to change my (lens) filter, as the image color appears, unsurprisingly, to have shifted noticeably with the dimming. I read some posts previously cautioning to expect this as lamps dim. Perhaps other filter-tweakers, whose 700's have gone into the less-bright phase, are seeing the same.

So let's sum this up:

The AE-700 looks superior with a filter - but the rapid light loss experienced by others appears to be inherent to this projector (not isolated anecdotal claims).

So;

A) A filter works effectively but only for the first few hundred hours.

B) A second/third filter is required to accomodate the rapid light loss after first 300-500
hours.

C) Sit closer, reduce screen size and change the filter (500 hours or less YMMV).

D) Mix lemon with the cold Gin you're drinking to you make you feel good.

Haven't seen this question asked. Why is it that when I go into flicker and bring up the green screen my fans turns up? And when I exit the fan goes back low.

PF

Originally posted by pinkfreud55
Haven't seen this question asked. Why is it that when I go into flicker and bring up the green screen my fans turns up? And when I exit the fan goes back low.

PF

The mice in the air flow control system pedal faster when they see green.:D

degas, sorry for forgeting to responde to you. Yes, you understood very well how to set up flicker adjustment.

One thing that really bugs me is how much time, money and energy is been spent about all of this filtering issues. My close friends family owns a photographic shop and just out of curiosity I borrowed about 20 different filters and certainly tried all of the ones that were mentioned on this forum. After 3-4 hours of stuffing around with test DVD's, light spectrum analiser and 3 pairs of very good human eyes we all come to the same conclusion... what a bloody waste of time. First of all if you want good colour accuracy you don't need filter. All you have to do is to adjust your settings inside menus according to which screen and which video source you are using. All of this "posting my own setting" is dumb because if something works perfectly to one person, in another setup it can look terrible.
Another issue is even if you decide to give filter a go, after lets say 300 hours you can take your filter off and put it away until you get a new bulb.
I realise that many of you got hooked on to this perfect colour temperature and better contrast. To me using filter (in particular 81EF) you do get better blacks but at what expense??? First, you have to run in high mode and turn up brightness... you are killing your PJ. Second, you lose so much detail inside dark areas and with increased brightness you are "washing out" lots of high shadowing effects from most of bright areas.
You can shoot me for saying all of this but I think if a bit of coloured glass or even worse, piece of coloured resin makes this PJ fantastic, why Panasonic wouldn't fit it in the factory...hmmm?
Anyway, if anyone wants the settings for this PJ on 110" Stewart Firehawk and around 150 hours on the bulb (settings that I used to match PTAE700 reasonably close to my $50K+ 3 chip DLP PJ), let me know.

Cheers:)

Thanks for the response Jim. I'll set some traps up tonight and let you know how it goes.

Seriously though, what's up with this. It's only the green, the flicker screen. I'm starting to have doubts here. I also experienced the flicker tonight.... there is a relationship.

I said it before (in another thread): VB is related to the flicker, flicker is related to the power (as others report flicker going away with a monster thing) and the fan increases with flicker screen, and power and flicker are related to the bulb. The fact that hard powering down reduces the need for flicker is case and point. I don't like to admitted here but Ihe 'm starting to think that blowpixel my have a point (underneath his ego*** aproah).

BTW: flicker seemed to go away after I turned the iris off for some time. I should also mention that for the first time yesterday, without remembering to powerdown, I did not have to adjust the flicker. So it seems that the unit somehow retained the stable green. But today, again without hard powering down, the flicker needed to be adjusted (with the fan now coming on higher).

BASED ON THIS INFO, I THINK THAT SOMEONE WITH ELECTRONIC KNOWLEDGE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DEDUCE WHAT'S GOING ON. So please make sense of this.

PF

Originally posted by JimP
The mice in the air flow control system pedal faster when they see green.:D

:D :D :D :D

Made my day.

ted

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium

You can shoot me for saying all of this but I think if a bit of coloured glass or even worse, piece of coloured resin makes this PJ fantastic, why Panasonic wouldn't fit it in the factory...hmmm?


Because if they had fitted a filter at the factory, the measured light output would have been below 1000ansi.

Had it measured below 1000 ansi - they couldn't market it or sell it. A sub 1000 ansi machine is simply not a viable proposition in the projector market.

And Panasonic know what we now do: The filter can't be a permanent installation because given the light loss over time, that it will be impossibly dim in a short time.

Why are anamorphic lenses brighter size-for-size than the "conventional" Cinemascope technique?

Firstly, you can reduce the screen size, to get your height (you will then expand optically to get your width). Instead of the active Cinemascope picture area being about 540 out of 720 pixels (with the rest being useless black bars top and bottom of the image), the whole vertical resolution of the LCD chip is now used, meaning (at 720 pixels) it's going to be too tall for your screen unless you reduce height. AE700 users have a built-in "scaler" function called "ZOOM1" to do just this. The reduction in projected image size is to 3/4 of the normal size you use for Cinemascope presentations in both vertical and horizontal directions. This gives you 9/16ths of the area of the old size (3/4 squared). Hence, the brightness as a result of the smaller screen size is the inverse of this: 16/9, or 177.8%.

After this initial gain, you lose some brightness you have just gained. To restore geometry you have to optically expand the image (in only the horizontal direction) with the optical expansion factor being 1.33 to 1. When you expand the smaller screen width by 1.33 to arrive at the correct Cinemascope width you lose a third of the brightness you gained by reducing screen size. Because the expansion is only in one direction now (horizontal), you don't have to apply the inverse square rule. Just divide by the increase in width of 1.33x. The new brightness is 177.8% divided by 1.33 = 133.3%. This is assuming perfect optics (projection lens and anamorphic adapter)

Depending on the anamorphic system you are using (prismatic or cylindrical lenses) you will lose some more light from internal reflections in the optics. Prismatic types lose about 10-15%. Cylindrical systems only lose 2-3% and they are MUCH less bulky and heavy than prismatic systems (except ISCO cylindricals - German - which tend to be very heavy, quite large and extremely expensive because of they way they work).

Whatever system you do use, your picture is still brighter than projecting Cinemascope using the "conventional" technique.

3D QUADRIAM

YOU have a PM

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium
All of this "posting my own setting" is dumb because if something works perfectly to one person, in another setup it can look terrible.

Anyway, if anyone wants the settings for this PJ on 110" Stewart Firehawk and around 150 hours on the bulb (settings that I used to match PTAE700 reasonably close to my $50K+ 3 chip DLP PJ), let me know.

Cheers:)


Huh???


I am a little confused by these statements.

I've noticed several folks are having problems with the light output "flickering" (quickly going dim and then back with-in seconds). My 700 has 432 hours on it and has slowly started to fllicker (not VB). It does it when it wants to (if its been on for an hour or 12 hours). It does not do it all the time. I have turned off the Irus, no effect. Does it on HDMI and Componet inputs. Also has firmware 1.05.

Any Ideas?

VERTICAL BANDING, WITH LATEST FIRMARE

Can any one comment, on status of VERTICAL BANDING, with latest firmware. Is it still there on this unit? (long thread, and didnt notice if this subject was addressed)

CHEERS, TC

MRJazzz,

On my unit, the flicker adjustment (under the service menu) corrects the issue. I have found that it does need periodic adjustment. Some here say to power the unit off at the rear power switch and this keeps the panels from needing periodic adjustment (I haven't tried it yet).

P.R.O.

Any comments on my previous post???


"Thanks for the response Jim. I'll set some traps up tonight and let you know how it goes.

Seriously though, what's up with this. It's only the green, the flicker screen. I'm starting to have doubts here. I also experienced the flicker tonight.... there is a relationship.

I said it before (in another thread): VB is related to the flicker, flicker is related to the power (as others report flicker going away with a monster thing) and the fan increases with flicker screen, and power and flicker are related to the bulb. The fact that hard powering down reduces the need for flicker is case and point. I don't like to admitted here but Ihe 'm starting to think that blowpixel my have a point (underneath his ego*** aproah).

BTW: flicker seemed to go away after I turned the iris off for some time. I should also mention that for the first time yesterday, without remembering to powerdown, I did not have to adjust the flicker. So it seems that the unit somehow retained the stable green. But today, again without hard powering down, the flicker needed to be adjusted (with the fan now coming on higher).

BASED ON THIS INFO, I THINK THAT SOMEONE WITH ELECTRONIC KNOWLEDGE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DEDUCE WHAT'S GOING ON. So please make sense of this.

PF"

Originally posted by pinkfreud55

Any comments on my previous post???

I don't like to admitted here but Ihe 'm starting to think that blowpixel my have a point (underneath his ego*** aproah).

Sure - I agree.

And you bet I have a point - you should not be experiencing this with any projector at any price point.

Contact Panasonic and ask them if they have heard of your detective work in tracking this problem.

Incidentally what 'doubts' are you beginning to have? Are you questioning the quality, reliability, and overall value for money of this projector by any chance?

Originally posted by blownpixel
Sure - I agree.

And you bet I have a point - you should not be experiencing this with any projector at any price point.

Contact Panasonic and ask them if they have heard of your detective work in tracking this problem.

Incidentally what 'doubts' are you beginning to have? Are you questioning the quality, reliability, and overall value for money of this projector by any chance?

Isn't it about time that you start making suggestions that are in fact useful instead of your constant berating of Panasonic and by inference anyone who might have purchased a 700 and doesn't share your "enlightened" pointed of view? Speaking as the benighted soul you think I am, you are a one note refrain and not a particularly interesting one.

As I requested earlier in the thread - take these thoughts elsewhere. I find it difficult to see where your particular suggestion of whining to Panasonic will ameliorate any issues we have now - particularly in light of the likelihood that *you* do not own a 700. Isn't your agenda complete or do you require genuflecting to the "superiority" of your thought.

Everything you say is a statement, whether it be followed by a question mark or not and that statement is "I am correct and know better than you poor misguided ones"

Move on until you have something of real interest to post or thoughts of real merit to contribute. Heck even a bit of humour would be a respite. Again this thread was not meant for this type of reasoning.

I apologize to anyone, but the addressed, who might feel this post inappropriate, but speaking as a member of AVS for about 2 years this gent is without a doubt the most relentless I've encountered and as a 700 owner I see little of value in what he repeats in post after post ad nauseum. Minimalism can be revelatory in art, not in thought.

Upon anyone's, but blownpixel's, request I will delete this message.

ted

This Forum has a role to play as advocates for consumers.

This projector despite the positive owners reports, has significant ongoing issues that require fixes and support.

And as has been said elsewhere denying it will not resolve it.

You're old enough to remember this Ted; 'If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.'

I hope this Forum remains a bastion of free and frank discussion concerning the merits and problems of consumer audio and video.

I also hope that whatever fixes we may see in future generations that the AVS can take credit for allowing such discussion to take place. It is well known that manufacturers listen to what is said in these discussions.

One hopes for those who follow, that Panasonic are among them.

Out of respect for the purpose of this thread I request there be no further postings in this thread regarding blownpixels' issues.

I also request that those who wish to evaluate the issues that he has raised regarding AVS's role in consumer advocacy, and even that tired old simplistic saw of being part of the problem, be devoted to a thread for that purpose, and not *this* one.

ted

What are blowpixel's issues? I hope that my post does not violate your suggestion as this will only negate my opportunity to discuss MY issues. So if I'm not violating the intent of this thread can you respond to me and ignore him, and state that you're ignoring him if that helps others see your wisdom (no sarcasm intended).

PF

pinkfreud55,

Sir,

I've PM'd you.

ted

Originally posted by tvted
Out of respect for the purpose of this thread I request there be no further postings in this thread regarding blownpixels' issues.

I also request that those who wish to evaluate the issues that he has raised regarding AVS's role in consumer advocacy, and even that tired old simplistic saw of being part of the problem, be devoted to a thread for that purpose, and not *this* one.

ted

I second the motion. It's amounted to nothing more than grandstanding and heckling.

PS: tvted, I sent a PM a couple of days ago, and am checking to see if you got it. Also, I'm in a crunch right now, but will respond to your last posted questions asap.

It's not grandstanding and heckling.

It is trying to bring some objectivity to the discussion that will help others arrive at informed conclusions about the PTAE-700's performance.

Here is one conclusion: What has been uncovered in the past few days is the lack of stability observed by some viewers with the PTAE-700's light output. The reason why Panasonic don't include a filter is because it doesn't have the light output to sustain adequate light levels in the long term.

Anyone attempting to use filters to improve the image must do so in the full knowledge that the light level is inadequate.

This thread started not as a tweak thread - a tweak is something that will take a fully functioning unit and improve its stock performance.

This has been a 'fix-it' thread from the start - because the fundamental performance of this projector is unreliable, unstable and variable in its well documented deficiencies.

Page 1 of this thread talks about flicker, vertical banding, overscan, white flashes, peek-a-boo scan lines and power supply issues.

And that is just page 1.

These aren't 'tweaks' - they are **problems** requiring a permament **fix**.

I hope those who are contemplating the tweaks suggested do so in the full knowledge of what they are doing.

Because the enthusiasm for the tweaks has overshadowed informed discussion on the technical issues that will undermine the long term viability of those claimed improvements.

Blownpixel, what is your malfunction?

I paid $2600 Aussie dollars for my unit and there is NOTHING I can buy for TWICE the money that will be better than this out of the box.

I doubt if there is one person on this forum who bought theirs without knowing what they were getting. The vast majority here are very happy with their purchase and just want to improve on what they have.

Most of us LIKE to tinker. You like to complain. Go away.

You have not added anything of value to this forum, in fact you have detracted from it with your incessant wingeing.

BTW, from Google dictionary -

tweak

n : a squeeze with the fingers [syn: pinch] v 1: pinch or squeeze sharply 2: pull or pull out sharply; "pluck the flowers off the bush" [syn: pluck, pull off, pick off] 3: adjust finely; "fine-tune the engine" [syn: fine-tune]

Get it?

As far as bulb brightness decreasing over time goes, which one doesn't?

Why do they flicker? I don't know, (mine doesn't yet but it's only at 100 hours)
but your not helping to find out.

Finally, this forum does NOT have a role to play as advocates for consumers. Where the hell did you get that idea?
It's for people with common interests to get together and share and discuss. That's it.

I also will say no more on this and apologise to everyone else for taking up space in what IS a tweak thread.

Smegger's been hooked !. Quick, Get Rex Hunt ! :D

I think there is a lot of truth in wat blownpixel is saying: that this has become more a "fix" thread than a "tweak" one.

Without getting too far into the semantics of the two words, it could also be said that "tweak" and "fix" can, in certain circumstances, be synonymous (or close to it).

I too have wondered why Panasonic didn't build-in a filter (internally for that matter) if it would have fixed the cyan caste in the black. The obvious reason (barring color blindness on their designers' behalf, which I don't think is likely) is that the projector is too bloody dim to support the filter for the whole of the advertised lamp life. I think that's a valid point for blownpixel to make.

OK, so the device is pushing available technology with its "contrast enhancement" via auto iris. We can't expect miracles with old technology pushed to the edge.

But blownpixel DOES have a point in saying that if it was a TRUE 1000 ANSI device then Panasonic should have put their money where their mouth is and fitted the filter.

Many of us here forget that at one time we knew nothing about projectors. Comments like, "Everyone knows lamps don't last at full brightness" beg the reply: define "everyone". I didn't know anything about projectors when I bought my AE700. It was my first projector. There are other things too, like flicker fixes, and VB and peek-a-boo scan lines that I - and many, many others - didn't have a clue about.

What I DID know was that the projector was cheap, its hype was pretty confident-sounding and others were getting great results under 100 hours. So I took the plunge. Maybe I still would, even knowing what I know now and even having gone through the horror of waiting for a Panasonic Supreme Court decision on whether my lamp was covered by warranty. But I would like to have been more informed at the time of my decision.

Thing was, I didn't know how ignorant I was. I just went the hype from Panasonic, Projector Central and some of the early users on this site. Waiting didn't seem to have much point.

One day there will be a projector that does not have so many weak spots in its design. Maybe consumer pressure (like that found here) will go some of the way towards achieving that goal. But until then, in my opinion we do have room here for contributors like blownpixel who dare to call the Emperor for wearing no clothes.

I think he asks questions that even if found to be answerable in the negative are still valid questions.

If this is a "tweak" thread, then it seems fair to me to ask why we HAVE to tweak in the first place.

I know the projector is cheap. Let's discount that for the moment. Any other reasons we should accept that it needs tweaking?

So now we are saying that the AE700 sucks because it can be improved by tweaks? I've seen people tweak a BMW. Must be a real piece of junk if you can improve stopping distance, increase horsepower and improve handling with a few tweaks.

I think BP has deflected the purpose of this thread. Turning a little bit of hobby science for the anal few into a Ralph Nader crusade. I don't like it. I know that the PJ has limits. I expect that it does not live up to the hype as none of them ever do. As a consumer, I have learned to expect this. I still love this PJ. I still recommend it to anyone who wants a great picture for the price. If a forum reader feels that all these tweaks imply that the PJ is a bad investment then so be it. Panasonic's sales will drop and they will have to figure out why. I don't see the purpose of tis forum as having anything to do with informing the public or panasonic of anything. It is just information.

Now, on the subject of bulbs. I have been digging and it is extremely hard to find real data. It appears that high pressure metal halide bulbs have a typical luminance depreciation (LLD) of about 50% at the mean lifetime. It also appears that the UHP bulbs designed by Philips are not quite the same beast as the UHM bulbs used in the AE700 and designed by Matsushita Electric. The UHP design claims to cause evaporated tungsten to be redeposited on the elctrodes, reducing the LLD to about 20%, meaning much less drop off over the life of the bulb. I can find no such claims for the UHM and I found at least one source that claimed that their testing showed that UHM degraded more over time than UHP. One of the main contributors to loss of output is the deposits on the inside of the bulb that darken the envelope. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that sudden loss of output might be cause by a flaw in the electrode that causes a sudden burst of this material to be deposited. It could also create a pit in the elctrode that would cause flickering. As the elctrode wore away, the flickering could subside.

One other thing, I found at least one marginal source that claimed that the Philips bulb was not a mercury bulb. The Panasonic bulb is definitely mercury as it has the following Logo on the side:

M
HS120AR10-40
HG

The HG logo inidcates that the bulb contains mercury. I suspect that the M logo is for Matsushita. There were a number of scientific sources that mentioned non-mercury bulb designs. I personally am skeptical that the UHP is non-mercury.

Originally posted by canthony15
Now, on the subject of bulbs. I have been digging and it is extremely hard to find real data. It appears that high pressure metal halide bulbs have a typical luminance depreciation (LLD) of about 50% at the mean lifetime. It also appears that the UHP bulbs designed by Philips are not quite the same beast as the UHM bulbs used in the AE700 and designed by Matsushita Electric. The UHP design claims to cause evaporated tungsten to be redeposited on the elctrodes, reducing the LLD to about 20%, meaning much less drop off over the life of the bulb. I can find no such claims for the UHM and I found at least one source that claimed that their testing showed that UHM degraded more over time than UHP. One of the main contributors to loss of output is the deposits on the inside of the bulb that darken the envelope. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that sudden loss of output might be cause by a flaw in the electrode that causes a sudden burst of this material to be deposited. It could also create a pit in the elctrode that would cause flickering. As the elctrode wore away, the flickering could subside.

One other thing, I found at least one marginal source that claimed that the Philips bulb was not a mercury bulb. The Panasonic bulb is definitely mercury as it has the following Logo on the side:

M
HS120AR10-40
HG

The HG logo inidcates that the bulb contains mercury. I suspect that the M logo is for Matsushita. There were a number of scientific sources that mentioned non-mercury bulb designs. I personally am skeptical that the UHP is non-mercury.

Interesting stuff for this member of the "anal few* - eeeeyeewww, ;)

The cursory reading I did suggested it was metal halide.
Regardless it is still ignited - correct?

Any mention of ballast requirements (volatge & current), tolerances whether it be AC or DC? I still feel that the 700's supply/ballast board might be sporting marginal caps which wouldn't surprise me at this price point.

Links if you've got them.

thanks canthony15,
ted

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

I think there is a lot of truth in wat blownpixel is saying: that this has become more a "fix" thread than a "tweak" one. (snip)

One day there will be a projector that does not have so many weak spots in its design.

Maybe consumer pressure (like that found here) will go some of the way towards achieving that goal. But until then, in my opinion we do have room here for contributors like blownpixel who dare to call the Emperor for wearing no clothes.

Thanks Aussie Bob.

This Forum is entry level - it is for that reason threads like this (and the 'Recall' thread) are valuable - because your first-up purchase experience is common - and not everyone here knows what to look for or expect on their first purchase.

Perhaps we could sum up the permanent solutions that have been found in this 80+ page thread.

What exactly are they?

Let's start with convergance.

Originally posted by tvted
Interesting stuff for this member of the "anal few* - eeeeyeewww, ;)

The cursory reading I did suggested it was metal halide.
Regardless it is still ignited - correct?

Any mention of ballast requirements (volatge & current), tolerances whether it be AC or DC? I still feel that the 700's supply/ballast board might be sporting marginal caps which wouldn't surprise me at this price point.

Links if you've got them.

thanks canthony15,
ted

Here's one for the UHP. The first three downloads are interesting.

http://www.lighting.philips.com/gl_en/global_sites/application/projection/moreabout_uhp_3.php?main=global&parent=6450&id=gl_en_projection_lamps&lang=en

All of the PJ bulbs I looked into UHP, UHM and a couple of others were metal halide. This is added to the mercury vapor to broaden the spectrum. The 20% increase in pressure that deifines the UH bulb helps increase the red content.

Tony

Originally posted by canthony15
Here's one for the UHP. The first three downloads are interesting.

http://www.lighting.philips.com/gl_en/global_sites/application/projection/moreabout_uhp_3.php?main=global&parent=6450&id=gl_en_projection_lamps&lang=en

All of the PJ bulbs I looked into UHP, UHM and a couple of others were metal halide. This is added to the mercury vapor to broaden the spectrum. The 20% increase in pressure that deifines the UH bulb helps increase the red content.

Tony

Once I clear up the warranty vagueness - I'm taking mine out just for a look see. Is the ballast attached to the bulb or is it one unit?

I'll post my links when I'm at my home PC.

ted

Originally posted by tvted
Once I clear up the warranty vagueness - I'm taking mine out just for a look see. Is the ballast attached to the bulb or is it one unit?

I'll post my links when I'm at my home PC.

ted

The ballast in a lighting system is basically a regulator. They also have to include a method of striking the arc. Projector lamps are driven by AC current (150Hz square wave is typical). This current must be regulated. UHP and similar bulbs use a high voltage pulse to strike the arc. Once started the arc current profile has to be controlled as the vapor heats up. The operating voltage of these bulbs is fairly low. My old LP620 bulb ran at 36 volts AC. Here is a ballast from a Matsushita subsidiary:

http://www.aromat.com/lcd/products/mh_pdf/150w.pdf

I don't think this ballast is suitable for projectors but it contains the basics. The UHP stuff from philips is sold to the projector manufacturers as a system consisting of both the bulb and the electronic driver for the bulb. I suspect that things get more complicated for projector bulbs because of the requirement for maintaining tight control on the brightness and the color as well as the life.

I bought this projector last week and its great, viewing on a 106inch screen and so far everythings working smoothly i have the 1.07 firmware.

I have noted that you need to let the unit stay on for 30 minutes before adjusting the flicker values, after that they stay the same ( they might change with time )

I wish so many films didnt have edge enhancement though, best one in my collection with practically zero edge enhancement and a very film like look to it is Tomb Raider 2 - cradle of Life region 3 version ( dts sound too )

I am a bit worried reading this thread and wondering how long my projectors life will be, can you substitute the panasonic lamp for another type or is this dangerous ?

I might post some pics within the next few weeks on my website showing the system in action :)

To add to the knowledge base here, my unit with now 440 hours is (as posted yesterday) has suffered from a fairly sudden on set of "Flickering" (suddenly varying light output). After posting I switched the units lamp to the High setting. After 7 hours in this mode NO "Flickering"! Upon switching back to Low setting NO "Flickering". After about 45 min. still no return of the Flickering in Low mode. I will leave the unit in low mode and see if the problem arises again.

I think you folks looking at the lamp/ballast/electrical are heading in the right direction.

Paul

canthony,

P.R.O.'s (thanks Paul) observation that running his lamp on HIGH for a time seemed to correct his flickering problem appears to lend some credence to your thought

that sudden loss of output might be cause by a flaw in the electrode that causes a sudden burst of this material to be deposited. It could also create a pit in the electrode that would cause flickering. As the electrode wore away, the flickering could subside.


I would think that the higher heat might be instrumental in "cleaning" the electrode.

Paul,
Have you observed appreciable brightness loss since this occurrence?
My light loss is different - I've never suffered flickering - other that the usual substance induced kind :D. I'm going on the assumption that my bulb has reached its "half power" point (sooner than I'd wished) which is bright enough, but may become my backup bulb if it continues to decline.

ted

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
I bought this projector last week and its great, viewing on a 106inch screen and so far everythings working smoothly i have the 1.07 firmware.

I have noted that you need to let the unit stay on for 30 minutes before adjusting the flicker values, after that they stay the same ( they might change with time )

I wish so many films didnt have edge enhancement though, best one in my collection with practically zero edge enhancement and a very film like look to it is Tomb Raider 2 - cradle of Life region 3 version ( dts sound too )

I am a bit worried reading this thread and wondering how long my projectors life will be, can you substitute the panasonic lamp for another type or is this dangerous ?

I might post some pics within the next few weeks on my website showing the system in action :)

Before the weekend, I was feeling a little saddened by the fact that my bulb had dimmed - just when I seemed to be settling on all the other non PJ issues in my basement bijou. It rained here all weekend so I spent much of my time just watching a variety of things - and heck I feel better. Things aren't as dark as they appeared, though I'm not getting any more lumens from the box. My family still think its a great picture and so do I.

This weepy tale is my attempt at a "parable", and what I'm trying to say is "Don't sweat it man." Watch a bunch of your faves and just enjoy your purchase for now. If and when the bugs bite (and they might not) just log in knowing you are not alone.

btw - I completely agree with you about EE (worse than my dimmer bulb in my view) - try your SHARPNESS if you have'nt already done so

ted

Jeez the service just ai'nt pixel perfect
and the 700 is so cheap that they can't even fix the flickin' flickering. This doesn't happen to other boxes - especially the ones I wish I could afford.
Damn.

We are ALONE.

until you come across this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=287704) - all 15 pages of it.

ted

TVed. Not sure if that's good news or bad news. Yep other's with same problem. I could not determine if those with the replacement bulbs did or did not have the problem occur again.

I think a new thread might be in order. Some tel. numbers posted. See what Panasonic does.

PF

Originally posted by pinkfreud55
TVed. Not sure if that's good news or bad news. Yep other's with same problem. I could not determine if those with the replacement bulbs did or did not have the problem occur again.

I think a new thread might be in order. Some tel. numbers posted. See what Panasonic does.

PF

Neither - it is simply news.
Simply saying that it is a problem with many pj's - more than Sharp is mentioned in that thread - and as owners we should be aware that yah win some yah lose some - as many can attest to. I was certainly aware that PJ bulbs can die quickly or fall to half-power (but I tend to be a screen worm when it comes to research) when I purchased my box.

It wasn't that long ago that PJ bulbs didn't do much more than a few hundred hours. I'm certainly not suggesting a prone position, but bulb problems are not uncommon, by any means.

Caveat Emptor,
ted

OT -- That sounds like my vintage 1980 Sharp LCD PJ ($7000 - 640 x 480 - wow!). It had a whopping 125W bulb that had a rated life between 250 Hrs - 500 Hrs. Then again, the bulb only cost around $100 :D.

One of the Panasonic call center jockies I contacted during my "bulb incident" said to me that Panasonic had "short life" bulbs in early AE700 projectors. And that they were replacing them as and when required. I let it go, but now I wonder....

I don't think (after seeing a replacement bulb for myself) that you can substitute a third party bulb for the genuine article. It looks too complicated, too proprietary a rig to qualify as an after-market candidate. These aren't ink-jet refills. The bulb is a homogenous part of the entire assembly, not something that can be just clipped in and out. You need the whole, sealed rig to make it work.

I accept that bulbs can go at any time and that they exist right on the edge of viability. Some go early. Some go late. What I don't like is the penalty we might have to pay if we're "unlucky": a full-price replacement. In my own case, I wangled a warranty replacement. Others might not be so fortunate.

Panasonic's pro-rata replacement policy (at least in Australia) seems a good solution to this. You pay - up to a point - by the hour of usage. Whether or not this is "official" (as in "public") or just their internal fallback position if they are backed into a corner, I don't know.

Hang on TVed. When you say: "and as owners we should be aware that yah win some yah lose some ", do you mean from the all PJ owners or from all Panasonic owners.

I would like to know if there exist people who have gone over say 500 hrs with no flicker. If such people don't exist then there's a problem here and Panasonic like sharp would need to honor the replacement bulbs. Sharp did that for a reason: not because of their intergrity but because of the bottom line.

Who disagrees with me? I think as time goes on and flicker starts for others I think the enormity of the problem will become apparent.

PF

I had over 700 hours on my bulb before I started having flicker. Thankfully, the flicker problem hasn't shown up again, since adding the Monster power supply.

Originally posted by tvted
canthony,


Paul,
Have you observed appreciable brightness loss since this occurrence?
My light loss is different - I've never suffered flickering - other that the usual substance induced kind :D. I'm going on the assumption that my bulb has reached its "half power" point (sooner than I'd wished) which is bright enough, but may become my backup bulb if it continues to decline.

ted

Ted, I've not had an issue with a sudden overall drop in light output. I'm sure after 400+ hours, the bulb has lost light out put but that is expected

As far as the "flickering", even after switching back to low lamp mode, It has not started flickering agian. So I'm not sure really what is going on. I'm very happy that this issue has so far curred itself; cause the issue made the projector unwatchable. It Flickered that bad!

I've also run across one reason why my particular projector does not throw a really "razor" sharp image. The panels are poorly aligned. The red panel is off to one side the width of the cross hair line (under the service menu) and the blue is off one line width to the other side. Any known tweaks for this?

Paul

Originally posted by muadib
I had over 700 hours on my bulb before I started having flicker. Thankfully, the flicker problem hasn't shown up again, since adding the Monster power supply.