I wonder, despite all the caveats in the user's manual, whether Panasonic are withholding some vital lamp use info.

Possible example #1: "Don't over-use DYNAMIC or VIDEO modes"
Possible example #2: "We shipped a bad batch of bulbs early on"
Possible example #3: "Later software revisions secretly address premature lamp failure problem that we won't admit to officially"
Possible example #4: "Do not use projector in bathroom"

(oops, #4's already covered... wish I'd read the manual before I watched those DVDs in the shower).

Re power interference: I get herringbone patterning when my phone (Panasonic cordless) is in use. Projector is 3 feet directly above the base station.

Originally posted by pinkfreud55
Hang on TVed. When you say: "and as owners we should be aware that yah win some yah lose some ", do you mean from the all PJ owners or from all Panasonic owners. PF

Nope we FP owners - thought I made that clear when I said we are not alone.

Btw though I haven't experienced flicker I have contacted the dealer I purchased it from - more for advice or his experience with other installs - I don't believe this issue is in the hands of dealers. I've emailed Panasonic as well - looking for a response basically.

So I agree with you - I think Aussie Bob's last post says it best.


btw, I plan to return your PM so I'm not avoiding you. ;)
ted

Opps,

Anyhow, it's good to hear that somone with a "Flicker" problem has gone away. And is went away after a power conditioner was installed?

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
I wonder, despite all the caveats in the user's manual, whether Panasonic are withholding some vital lamp use info.

Possible example #1: "Don't over-use DYNAMIC or VIDEO modes"
Possible example #2: "We shipped a bad batch of bulbs early on"
Possible example #3: "Later software revisions secretly address premature lamp failure problem that we won't admit to officially"
Possible example #4: "Do not use projector in bathroom"

(oops, #4's already covered... wish I'd read the manual before I watched those DVDs in the shower).

Re power interference: I get herringbone patterning when my phone (Panasonic cordless) is in use. Projector is 3 feet directly above the base station.

I've never used either VIDEO or DYNAMIC and if you'd remembered my pokes at you you'd know that. I'm beginning to think you don't notice.:eek:

Number two sounds pretty good - I've asked them that directly - do you think they will tell me the truth? :D

I can't imagine how a firmware upgrade can help - if you can I'm reading.

You need a display for the bathroom? This (http://www.frontgate.com/fg/pdp.jsp?prod_oid=3838860&showarrow=y&category_key=-13727&cursor=0) might be what a gent like you can use.
Those shower DVD's don't come with an XXX on them do they? :D

ted

Originally posted by P.R.O.
Ted, I've not had an issue with a sudden overall drop in light output. I'm sure after 400+ hours, the bulb has lost light out put but that is expected

As far as the "flickering", even after switching back to low lamp mode, It has not started flickering again. So I'm not sure really what is going on. I'm very happy that this issue has so far curred itself; cause the issue made the projector unwatchable. It Flickered that bad!

I've also run across one reason why my particular projector does not throw a really "razor" sharp image. The panels are poorly aligned. The red panel is off to one side the width of the cross hair line (under the service menu) and the blue is off one line width to the other side. Any known tweaks for this?

Paul

I wish I could find some details on how *much* loss we should expect after 400 hrs.

I'm going to burn mine in HIGH for a while to see what happens. Maybe canthony15 is onto something when he spoke of the electrode being affected.

As to misalignment, Panasonic never provided any electronic tweaks and I believe the panel position is fixed with glue at the factory - so its not a user level tweak, unfortunately.

I'm curious about your razor sharp comment though - what source, cabling, and have you seen LCOS? In other words what were your expectations and do you prefer a film-like or a video-like (digital) image?

ted

Originally posted by pinkfreud55

Hang on TVed. When you say: "and as owners we should be aware that yah win some yah lose some ", do you mean from the all PJ owners or from all Panasonic owners.


Pinkfreud - projector owners only ever 'lose' if they don't know what they're buying and if surprises happen with their display device that they did not forearm themselves about before purchasing - in short, they bought the hype.

That is what has happened here.

Many bought this projector first up on reputation and sales pitch alone and are now surprised at what they bought and why they didn't know what they now do.

Have you also noticed how the filter discussion has stopped? The reason why is because many now know what we have talked about: this projector is too dim to take the light loss in the long term. The filter is *not* a solution.

I've been here at AVS less than a week and my thread has gone global and is impacting on sales of the AE700 around the world.

I am pleased that others now know what to do when the next 'stellar projector' comes along: **wait**.

Originally posted by CT_Wiebe
OT -- That sounds like my vintage 1980 Sharp LCD PJ ($7000 - 640 x 480 - wow!). It had a whopping 125W bulb that had a rated life between 250 Hrs - 500 Hrs. Then again, the bulb only cost around $100 :D.

They made LCD pj's in 1980? Cripes that was even before the Amiga - is that a typo?

So essentially, I could buy half a dozen bulbs for my 700 and it would still cost less than the cost of that PJ. You've made me embarrassed about my concerns for bulb life. :eek:

Hope it felt good to be the only one for miles with light on the walls. ;)

ted

So blownpixel (hope you didn't break an arm patting yourself on the back for "being here at AVS less than a week and impacting AE700 sales around the world"), who are you gonna "take down" next?

BTW, all you've done is trumpet what people were finding and posting as they've accumulated hours on their projector - something no one knew until those hours were actually put on a meaningful sample size of projectors (and which we still don't know is a certain batch, or a minimal percentage, or broader - I bet there are many happy AE700 owners who've never posted here - why should they, if they're happy with what they have and aren't tweakers at heart?).

I still have my filter on mine, and I'm still happy with my projector.

Originally posted by blownpixel
Pinkfreud - projector owners only ever 'lose' if they don't know what they're buying and if surprises happen with their display device that they did not forearm themselves about before purchasing - in short, they bought the hype.

That is what has happened here.

Many bought this projector first up on reputation and sales pitch alone and are now surprised at what they bought and why they didn't know what they now do.

Have you also noticed how the filter discussion has stopped? The reason why is because many now know what we have talked about: this projector is too dim to take the light loss in the long term. The filter is *not* a solution.

I've been here at AVS less than a week and my thread has gone global and is impacting on sales of the AE700 around the world.

I am pleased that others now know what to do when the next 'stellar projector' comes along: **wait**.

There yah go making assumptions again, drawing conclusions with little evidence. Perhaps the discussion has stopped because there is little to say - I continue to use mine though my lumens are considerably less, so it remains a solution for *me* and I venture, others. Why is it you insist that somehow you are seeing a full representation 700 ownership here?

You *are* a master of sophistry aren't you? Or is that presumptuousnesses?And here I was thinking you'd grown tired of that one note refrain.

Yep your closed thread and all your comments are definitely responsible for the lost sales you say Panasonic is suffering. I'm sure Panasonic's marketing dept. is in a tizzy right now, working into the wee hours just trying to fix your pixel. :rolleyes:
Such hubris is unbecoming.

I guess speciousness never has its day.

ted

Originally posted by blownpixel
Pinkfreud - projector owners only ever 'lose' if they don't know what they're buying and if surprises happen with their display device that they did not forearm themselves about before purchasing - in short, they bought the hype.

That is what has happened here.

Many bought this projector first up on reputation and sales pitch alone and are now surprised at what they bought and why they didn't know what they now do.
How do you know (learn) about how much panel misalignment (surprise!) to expect in order to forearm yourself before purchasing? Do you just disbelieve the salesman's pitch about a razor sharp picture and wait in a standoff until the manufacturer volunteers the specifications and performance standards?
Originally posted by tvted
They made LCD pj's in 1980? Cripes that was even before the Amiga - is that a typo?
A year or two ago someone gave me a dinosaur of an LCD projector, it was (something less than 640) x 480, it had dot triads like a CRT, side by side red, green, and blue spots, on a single LCD panel. Or maybe you could say 640 x 480 where any one pixel could be red, green, or blue only. The picture looked grainy. I sold it on eBay, "LCD PROJECTOR, 9.95 NO RESERVE!" and it fetched something like $300.

I am aware the closed AVS "recall" thread has been picked up in other 'discussions' and is being used to turn people off sales of the AE-700.

While other AVS members have paused to consider the purchase in light of the discussions concerning the AE-700s reliability.

Bottom line is that informed discussion is better before you purchase than after. And the AVS should take credit for allowing users to discuss potential issues before parting with their cash.

Because of you knew then what you know now, you wouldn't need to check your lamp and compromise future warranty claims.

Originally posted by tvted
I wish I could find some details on how *much* loss we should expect after 400 hrs.

I'm going to burn mine in HIGH for a while to see what happens. Maybe canthony15 is onto something when he spoke of the electrode being affected.

As to misalignment, Panasonic never provided any electronic tweaks and I believe the panel position is fixed with glue at the factory - so its not a user level tweak, unfortunately.

I'm curious about your razor sharp comment though - what source, cabling, and have you seen LCOS? In other words what were your expectations and do you prefer a film-like or a video-like (digital) image?

ted

It would be nice to know what the life of these lamps look like on a chart, just for gaining the knowledge.

And I can live with the slightly mis-aligned panels. Just don't want to see the flickering.

I know I bought a $2k projector, and I know it is a great value (unless the flicker returns). I didn't expect perfection and don't expect the crispness or razor sharp text like good DLP (that also cost much more). What I got was a great 77" "Monitor" (no problem with overall light output) and to finally be able to use a digital input (much better than component or even the D-15 pin PC input).

Source is Voom via Component, HTPC via DVI/HDMI.

Paul

Originally posted by Allan Jayne

How do you know (learn) about how much panel misalignment (surprise!) to expect in order to forearm yourself before purchasing? Do you just disbelieve the salesman's pitch about a razor sharp picture and wait in a standoff until the manufacturer volunteers the specifications and performance standards?


You read here and esewhere and hopefully find old hands who know what they are looking at. This is where the AVS combined body of experience and knowledge is priceless.

You could also do what I did: ask some hard questions and see what those who have bought say now.

The answers to those questions combined with the hands-on experience of the old-timers here may help you be an informed buyer.

I started writing this post with a response to blowpixel then recalled that ignoring can sometimes eliminate a person's behavior (of course the behavior usually increases before it get extinguished....arrgh!!).

I knew of all the PJ's flaws before I bought it. I tested it 3 times and I live 6 hours away from the closest demo place (now shops that are closer have it). IMO all the issues are minor, except for the flicker. Blowpixel just happened to poke around when we reached 300+ hrs on our bulbs, otherwise his comments would of had little impact.

TVED: I still use the filter as well, and know that the PQ is better than any other PJ (by a long shot) in this price range.

I agree with the above comment that there is an inherent risk to buying anything and that waiting around will just get you to by nothing (I wonder if Blow. owns a PJ and if he doesn't he probably never will as he likes to seems to only criticize). Maybe that last comment is not fair as he is just (man it's hard not to address the dinosaur in the closet)must like the closet) stating some anectodal experiences but he does so in a bully-type fashion.

I hope we get to the bottom of this (e.g. flicker goes away on it's own; try power conditionner; or pressure panasonic to address the problem.

I am confident that the problem is not a blip in the overall sample though.

Just my thoughts (hope I did not offend anyone as that is not my intent).

PF

Originally posted by P.R.O.
It would be nice to know what the life of these lamps look like on a chart, just for gaining the knowledge.



Paul

Take a look at the two curves in this document:

http://www.venturelighting.com/TechCenter/Lightoutput.html

Note that these are for metal halide bulbs in a lighting application, not projection. The general shape is the same. Philips claims that their UHP bulbs tend to be similar to the upper line on the curves. It seems that UHM is somewhere further down. As you can see, they vary by a bunch.

The general shape is an exponential decay. A rough equation would be about 2.7 raised to the power of -k*(t/L) where t is the number of hours on the bulb and L is the mean expected lifetime of the bulb. k varies between about .3 for a wonderful bulb to about .9 for a sad bulb. You would multiply the result by 100 to get a percentage of the original light output. For example, a 3000 hour middling bulb (say k = .5) after 400 hours would drop to about 100 * 2.7 ^ (-.5 * (400/3000)) where ^ means raised to the power of. This comes out to about 94%. A crappy bulb (k=.9) comes out to about 88%. This equation is not gospel. It is just an approximation to the curves in the pictures at the above link.

Tony

Originally posted by canthony15
Take a look at the two curves in this document:

http://www.venturelighting.com/TechCenter/Lightoutput.html

Note that these are for metal halide bulbs in a lighting application, not projection. The general shape is the same. Philips claims that their UHP bulbs tend to be similar to the upper line on the curves. It seems that UHM is somewhere further down. As you can see, they vary by a bunch.

The general shape is an exponential decay. A rough equation would be about 2.7 raised to the power of -k*(t/L) where t is the number of hours on the bulb and L is the mean expected lifetime of the bulb. k varies between about .3 for a wonderful bulb to about .9 for a sad bulb. You would multiply the result by 100 to get a percentage of the original light output. For example, a 3000 hour middling bulb (say k = .5) after 400 hours would drop to about 100 * 2.7 ^ (-.5 * (400/3000)) where ^ means raised to the power of. This comes out to about 94%. A crappy bulb (k=.9) comes out to about 88%. This equation is not gospel. It is just an approximation to the curves in the pictures at the above link.

Tony

So the fact that my measured lumens have dropped 50% (1 stop) in a period of 400 hrs must mean mine must be a .09 (crappy X .1).

Damn good thing I'm stupid stoned and blind - oh sorry that should read stone blind. ;)

Thanks for that Tony, another great find.

I'll see if I can somehow use it in my beginning campaign with Panasonic.
I'm currently at the questioning stage soon to escalate with pleading and whining. My secret weapon will be germ warfare and if that does'nt work I'm going to sic pixel on 'em. Then again I *did* know what I was getting into. :eek:

ted

I have an ae700 and there is not much wrong with it. Before I bought is I read (and still do) the threads on comparable projects. They have there problems too, but given what I have read I'd still stick with the ae700.

Why?

1. The upscaler is great. Tried external scalers and ones in upscaling DVD players, it does a better job. If it didn't do such a good job I may have gone to the Sony HS50
2. No screen door.
3. Quite good contrast, hey it's not perfect, but then sometime in the future upgraditis will hit and I'll go CRT.

What have I had go wrong?

HDMI flashes, took it in, picked it up 2 days later, big deal. I've flashed my PC bios, video bios, set top box, dvd player several times and didn't scream for a recall.

Do I use a filter?

Yes. Why? Because I want to get more contrast because it looks better. It's not that it was bad in the first place but that I like to get the most out of things.

Would I buy another competing projector?

No. reading the threads they are no better or worse. The next projector will be something not out yet.


Originally posted by blownpixel
I am aware the closed AVS "recall" thread has been picked up in other 'discussions' and is being used to turn people off sales of the AE-700.

While other AVS members have paused to consider the purchase in light of the discussions concerning the AE-700s reliability.

Bottom line is that informed discussion is better before you purchase than after. And the AVS should take credit for allowing users to discuss potential issues before parting with their cash.

Because of you knew then what you know now, you wouldn't need to check your lamp and compromise future warranty claims.

Yes , it has been a very interesting thread indeed !, many thoughts and comments from both sides of the border !, and all related to minor irritating problems that may or maynot be fixed by tweaks/firmware, etc, but apart from that, theres been no reports of major failure of the unit, maybe the occasional lamp or ballast but no real faults and commend Panasonic on the quality of the overall design.

I service many brands, although some may not have flicker problem or convergence problem, but have formatter problem (DLP) then basically, its goodbye, the price can exceed replacement unless manufacturers comes to the party when out of warranty.

Overall, the AE700 rules in the price range in my opinion, but hey, it would be great if 'out of the box' and no problems !!, well, problems are good for me actually !!!!!!

:D

(copied from another forum)

Come to think about it, there is a term in the electronics industry for product that is not quite up to snuff -- B-stock.

If manufacturers would grade the product and offer "premium" and "B-stock", appropriately priced, with appropriate performance standards and warranty treatment, we would not have so many gripes.

I could go to work for a video products company, testing projectors and grading them. At least I would be satisfied if I had the privilege of testing the projector I was going to live with, exchanging it at will until I got one that satisfied me which I believe 90% of the AE700's out there would.

i'm starting to get a little frustrated with all this stuff, start another thread iminent for closure if you're going to post **** like this allan

it really doesn't belong in here

thanks

Originally posted by billymac
i'm starting to get a little frustrated with all this stuff, start another thread iminent for closure if you're going to post **** like this allan

it really doesn't belong in here

thanks

Err
Umm.
I don't believe that was a pixelated post by Allan, Mr. Mac and it certainly wasn't "blown" out of proportion.
Not if I'm parsing this correctly.
At least I would be satisfied if I had the privilege of testing the projector I was going to live with, exchanging it at will until I got one that satisfied me which I believe 90% of the AE700's out there would.

That *other* problem still got yah down.? :D
I've been meaning to PM you to see how that was going - sorry I ran out of suggestions.

btw There is really no rancor here - I think the responses have been reasonable all in all.

PM me if you disagree or if you've got good news on the other front.

ted

Over in the rich guys forum :D :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=287704

my little girl had me up at 5:00 this morning reading the forum and picking up cheerios off the living room floor

i was purusing all the latest dang negative energy in this thread and it was making me ill

i've got my toughskin on now, so bring it on

the projector really is nice aside from a few issues and like everybody's said here a thousand times already, there's not a projector on this board that does't have "issues"

i guess i'd just like to sugges that if this is going to turn into a "what's wrong with the ae700" maybe we should start another thread

and quite frankly, i could care less how many people buy the 700, someone else buying it doesn't make me feel better about my purchase

there's gotta be one in every crowd, so cliche, but oh so true

i think i need to stop reading this forum so much

Have you also noticed how the filter discussion has stopped? The reason why is because many now know what we have talked about : this projector is too dim to take the light loss in the long term. The filter is *not* a solution.

This is called speculation and like many things you claim it is incorrect. There is only so much you can post about retailers and their various supplies of 77mm filters. The benefit has been proved by myself and many others.

I've been here at AVS less than a week and my thread has gone global and is impacting on sales of the AE700 around the world.

This is called self important hyperbole, is laughable, and is also false.

Remember readers that you can easily add a user to your ignore list. Then you don't have to read their garbage.

Just copy a user's name like 'blownpixel' and then go to your usercp and edit ignore list. Then paste the user's name 'blownpixel' into one of the boxes.

Originally posted by bradsears

This is called speculation and like many things you claim it is incorrect. There is only so much you can post about retailers and their various supplies of 77mm filters. The benefit has been proved by myself and many others. This is called self important hyperbole, is laughable, and is also false.


The filter has been proven for some only in the short term. Let's see at the 5000 hour mark - to insist the filter will be good for the life of the projector (after a few hundred hours) is indeed speculative.

And it is speculation that Panasonic themselves did not place any faith in.

Secondly - the AVS Forum is an extremely influential WEB presence globally.

Just as threads proclaiming the benefits of various products quickly gathers momentum around the world (after they have been discussed here), it is equally true that negative comments about products are also repeated around other audio Forums.

That is all that is happening here.

And consumers are the better for knowing what they do now.

Originally posted by blownpixel
The filter has been proven for some only in the short term. Let's see at the 5000 hour mark - to insist the filter will be good for the life of the projector (after a few hundred hours) is indeed speculative.


The filter will last as long as the life of the PJ or until its sold - what's your point? I'm likely to have gone through more than a couple of bulbs by then - like *most* PJ owners. In fact its conceivable that it might be useful for the next PJ I buy. Unlike the one that is included with the Epson 500 - that has to accompany the unit.

A one note refrain - E flat? Try a chord sometime - harmony usually results in greater complexity and hence more interest.
Just adds more evidence to my thought that there is less to you than meets the screen. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing as the cliche goes.

Btw - lets look at your 5000 hrs figure. I like 8 hrs sleep a day (more if I can because bed is a great place to be). So with 16 hrs a day that amounts to 312.5 days of viewing. So, how about going away and come back sometime next January? I'll tell you if I'm still using my filter.

I almost wish I *did * believe in ignore lists, but since we're all Bozos on this bus, every bozo is entitled to his opinion, self-important as it might be.

ted

Originally posted by P.R.O.

Source is Voom via Component, HTPC via DVI/HDMI.

Paul

Well I guess you've got the bases covered as far as "Sharpness" is concerned.
Zoomplayer/ffdshow/Dscaler 5 ?

ted

Originally posted by tvted

The filter will last as long as the life of the PJ or until its sold - what's your point?


The point has already been explained - other posters are saying reduce screen size or sit closer or get different filters to accomodate the rapid light loss.

You're fiddling with your lamp to try to get more horsepower to compensate for your lenses.

The point Ted is Panasonic didn't include a couple of bucks worth of glass filters on their projectors and the reason why at 1000 ansi lumens is **obvious**.

The only way to keep the punch and keep the filter is to change the lamp prematurely.

All this for a projector described elsewhere here as:

"It is capable of considerable light output, yet when used in its preferred mode its light output is crippled."

It's a shame that the compromises in this design appear to have been placed where they affect the image the most.

Ted,


HTPC uses Leadtek Geforce 6800 with Leadtek software (great digital keystone to fit that image to the screen). So no problem with the overscan issue with the Pannys HDMI input).

Also the flickering has not returned in the low lamp mode.

I read today in (in Z10000 forum, thanks canthony15) someone describe the exact same issue in about the same way my units flicker issue except he was running his in high mode and switching to low mode. Through reverse, the outcome was the same. Instantly the flicker stopped.

Its early in the game and will just wait to see. This may turn out ok.

Paul

Originally posted by P.R.O.
Ted,


HTPC uses Leadtek Geforce 6800 with Leadtek software (great digital keystone to fit that image to the screen). So no problem with the overscan issue with the Pannys HDMI input).

Also the flickering has not returned in the low lamp mode.
Paul

Changing your 1:1 pixel mapping *is* likely to have some impact on the "sharpness" you percieve. Whether it is appreciable - that's open to quetion. The HDMI is 1:1 - its just cropped slightly.

Do you use your PC for DVD playback? If so, choice of codec, player software, and rendering mode can all impact on PQ.
I apologise if I've made you roll your eyes and say Yah Yah. :D

I'm happy that the flickering has subsided for the time being. Do you have any way of measuring your display output? (lightmeter)

ted

Hey all,

As you can see, this is my first post. I have read about 80% of these threads looking at first for a solution to those annoying peek-a-boo scan lines.. I originally thought it was my HD box but once i had a loan of a Marantz DV-9500 and saw the problem when upscaling to 1080i, i was pretty sure the AE700 was the problem. I also had slight VB as well....

from what i have read on this forum i found my solution(s)

for VB:
i found that holding up a piece of white paper to the green in the flicker screen and adjusting for minimum flicker and then setting them all to the green setting (in my case 22), totally eliminated the vertical banding.

for scan lines:
turning off cinema reality mode - have not seen it since. not really sure what i'm losing here but it can't be as bad as those annoying lines on 1080i.

i guess i would like to thank everyone here for their interest and input. If it wasn't for this forum i'd still be harassing my local technicians who seem to have absolutely no idea compared to the wealth of knowledgeable users here....

i have clocked up about 600 hours on my PJ and am still stunned by the PQ. I think i recall momentary flickering and dimming (i think) once... I always run my PJ in low mode as i'm in a very light controlled room anyway.

after reading the 60 of the 80 odd pages here i'm still not sure about the filter situation. So if i may i'd like to ask a couple of questions that i'm sure have been answered, but i would really appreciate clarification.

in regards to filters,... are these filters creating better black levels or adjusting for colour push problems or both?

can someone please post the answer and which models and settings are appropriate (understanding that all PJ's are slightly different of course) for both colour and black level... and if one filter can do it all or do you require 2?

once again thanks guys for all the information and i do realise that the answer is in here but i'm still unsure based on what i've read and a post to sum up my questions would really help.

i hope my experience with VB and scan lines helps someone else

if anyone is planning on using the MYHD 130 card for MIT. Cliff Watson was nice enough to get us this response from the company about how the DVI card from the 130 interacts with the panny

”Dear Mr. Watson,

I'm glad to hear that the users are happy with the v1.65.1 software.

Let me explain how the "Enable DVI Output" option affects on the MyHD DVI
output signal:

- If it is enabled, the sync informations are made from the HBlank and
VBlank of the decoder.
All the DVI signals have a data_enable flag, which should exactly
correspond the active area of the video signal. Most DVI monitors can
exactly determine the active area of the video signal using this
data_enable flag.
When a MyHD DVI adaptor generates the data enable flag, the sync
informations should be made from the HBlank and VBlank signal in order to
make the data_enable indicate the exact active video area.

- If it is disabled, the sync information is made from the HSync and VSync
of the decoder. In this case, the data_enable does not properly indicate
the active video area. It becomes quite wider than the active video area,
so the video might be shifted to the right and to the bottom and the width
and height are larger than the actual size if monitors use the data_enable
as an active video area.
But some DVI monitors (mostly projectors) does not see a data_enable
flag, just use the HSync and VSync informations instead. These monitors
determine the active video area using their own signal specifications.

Seeing the manual of AE700U projector, I found the POSITION menu which
seemed to control the H,V position of the HDMI input. I'd like to know
whether this menu can shift the video or not.

I attached a utility (SyncOffset) which can move the position of the HSync
and VSync signal of the decoder. This might be useful in shifting the
video only when the DVI output mode is disabled.

Best Regards,
M.K.”

Originally posted by SleepRequired
[B]Hey all,

in regards to filters,... are these filters creating better black levels or adjusting for colour push problems or both?



I've attached a short PDF describing my understanding of why filters are used. This is just based on my reading of these forums and the helpful input of other posters. The gist of it is "contrast ratio" in the form of improved blacks.

Tony

Hi All,

I think I have a bad lamp - I went to do a SELF CHECK - everything says OK but LAMP -> NG

NG = NOT GOOD ?????

I only have 163 hrs on it...

But I remember that I accidently switch off the mainpower twice while I was using the projector and quickly turn it back on, so the fan would kick in....

I don't know if that has anything to do with it for saying the lamp is NG...

But I don't see that I'm losing any brightness or lost picture quality or anything....

Any thought about this??????

Thanks in Advence...

Baja

BajaFishin,

The "LAMP" entry in the SELF CHECK menu is listed as:

"Lamp Abnormality Check: Cause Of Lamp Malfunction"

Things get even more inscrutable when you read that:

"'OK' is displayed for OK and 'NG' is displayed for NG"

See if this goes off after a while (hours, not minutes). Otherwise you may have discovered one of the "we spy on our customers" fields.

Hi gals and guys,

There is one little thing that started to concern me lately. It is about LAMP TIMER, and I discovered that (I’m not sure that all of PTAE700 has the same problem) sometimes if PJ’s timer goes into next hour even for a few minutes, next time you turn it on those few minutes count for the whole hour. Could you guys please check if your machines do the same thing.

As I said in one of my previous posts I installed a few hundreds of PTAE700 and as routine maintenance I come back after 50 and then every 150 hours to recalibrate “things”. I have noticed a lamp flickering problem on about 5% of units. Most of flickering ones are the ones built before Jan2005. One big thing I noticed lately that on most of machines flickering stops immediately after LAMP TIMER has been reset to zero.

I’m not quite sure of why these things happen and I would appreciate if someone would look into it because many customers have questions that I don’t have answer to.

Cheers!:( :confused: :confused:

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium
Hi gals and guys,

As I said in one of my previous posts I installed a few hundreds of PTAE700 and as routine maintenance I come back after 50 and then every 150 hours to recalibrate “things”. I have noticed a lamp flickering problem on about 5% of units. Most of flickering ones are the ones built before Jan2005. One big thing I noticed lately that on most of machines flickering stops immediately after LAMP TIMER has been reset to zero.


This is VERY useful info - and puts in perspective the incidence of flickering from a sample size none of us have individually had the benefit of.

I'd be really curious as time goes on to see if the Jan '05 build date stands up as a watershed - perhaps the later units have a better ballast/power build than the earlier units.

Any guesses, Quadrium, for why re-setting the lamp timer might "solve" the flickering?

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium
As I said in one of my previous posts I installed a few hundreds of PTAE700 and as routine maintenance I come back after 50 and then every 150 hours to recalibrate “things”. I have noticed a lamp flickering problem on about 5% of units. Most of flickering ones are the ones built before Jan2005. One big thing I noticed lately that on most of machines flickering stops immediately after LAMP TIMER has been reset to zero.


So it is safe to say that these are machines with the older firmware - this is interesting given that it was mentioned earlier, I believe, that a flickering bulb sent in for repair came back from Panasonic with only a cable re-seating and a firmware upgrade so perhaps there is a relationship.

Firmware polling the lamp circuit perhaps?

ted

Actually, on few units with lamp flickering problem I noticed that after LAMP TIMER was reset, not only the flickering stopped but light output was noticably brighter. This really beats me because to me it doesn't make any sense.

Thanks in forward to any suggestions. Cheers:confused:

I didn't have the flicker problem until after I had my firmwire upgraded. At first, I thought it was something they did until I saw that others had the problem.

I can't see how it could cable related, because the problem cleared for me and others, when we started using the Monster Power Center. I think the power supply is the problem, but I'm at a loss on how to prove it.

3D Quadrium find is interesting, but it just adds to the mystery. I don't think the Jan2005 date means much, because I'd bet that few of those units have hit the 500 hour mark yet. I didn't start have the flicker until I was over 700 hours.

Originally posted by muadib
I didn't have the flicker problem until after I had my firmwire upgraded. At first, I thought it was something they did until I saw that others had the problem.

I can't see how it could cable related, because the problem cleared for me and others, when we started using the Monster Power Center. I think the power supply is the problem, but I'm at a loss on how to prove it.

3D Quadrium find is interesting, but it just adds to the mystery. I don't think the Jan2005 date means much, because I'd bet that few of those units have hit the 500 hour mark yet. I didn't start have the flicker until I was over 700 hours.

If you've read any of my earlier posts you know I too share your suspicions about a supply with marginal caps or a flaky ballast board - I've the means and equipment to check it but I'm a coward because I can't afford to void the warranty. I've never had a flicker problem but I have lost about 50% of my lumens over a relatively short period of time which seems excessive to me. My unit goes back to an October build - I've had it since the end of Dec. 04

I found the claim interesting in light of the reason I gave.
You're right - curiouser and curiouser.
ted

How many hours do you have on your unit, tvted? A 50% drop in lumens would freak me out. I didn't see that much loss on my L300U, and the bulb had over 2500 hours on it when I sold it. Why haven't you sent it in?

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium
Actually, on few units with lamp flickering problem I noticed that after LAMP TIMER was reset, not only the flickering stopped but light output was noticably brighter. This really beats me because to me it doesn't make any sense.

Thanks in forward to any suggestions. Cheers:confused:

OK, I'll bite. Now this is PURE speculation but...

Suppose the firmware had some control over the lamp current. We know it has some because of the high-low lamp modes. Suppose further that the firmware makes some attempt to control the lamp current over time, based on lamp hours let say, in order to extend the lamp life. The cynic in me wants to say that they might make the lamp unusually bright for the first few hundred hours in order to get "good press" or to make their lumen claims stand up, but that would be cynical and we don't want to be cynical... OK. Maybe thats not why. Maybe they just had a problem with lamps so they used firmware to turn them down after a while. Now, maybe they turned them down so much that some lamps begin to flicker.

I have an older unit and I have not noticed any huge drops in light output or any flickering. I never upgraded my firmware. I still have 1.03. Last time I looked I was just past 400 hours.

No it doesn't explain everything but I would not be surprised if they did play with the lamp current over time in order to extend the life of the bulb.

Originally posted by muadib
How many hours do you have on your unit, tvted? A 50% drop in lumens would freak me out. I didn't see that much loss on my L300U, and the bulb had over 2500 hours on it when I sold it. Why haven't you sent it in?

About 430 - dropped earlier - I have a cave and therefore can get away with low lumens, so to me the picture is still watchable - 1 stop is not that noticeable to most - I believe light has to drop to about 18% of its original before people perceive it as "half as bright". I just assumed that my bulb reached its half power point sooner than desired - my luck to be in the wrong part of the bell curve. Aussie Bob's experience with his 500 hr bulb has gotten me thinking otherwise.

I've begun a thread to see if I can get some details from other users, though blowpixel seems to be rearing.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=535279

Currently I've begun corresspondence with Panasonic Canada to see if I can make some headway. I'll be sure to post.

ted

Just selected the lamp timer and held it there for a few seconds. It set power off so I pressed menu to get out. The image, for some reason is now bright again. Hmm?? For how long - will see.

PF

Originally posted by pinkfreud55
Just selected the lamp timer and held it there for a few seconds. It set power off so I pressed menu to get out. The image, for some reason is now bright again. Hmm?? For how long - will see.

PF

If you've a light meter - measure NORMAL and VIDEO at factory defaults for me, if you could.

thanks,
ted

sorry ted but no llight meter. Clearly there's an increase though, as though it never decreased. Flicker not present yet (after 1hr.). I'll post after the movie (remeber the titans).

PF

Originally posted by pinkfreud55
sorry ted but no llight meter. Clearly there's an increase though, as though it never decreased. Flicker not present yet (after 1hr.). I'll post after the movie (remeber the titans).

PF

You watch movies with these things?
:D

real men watch test patterns
ted

quote from SleepRequired


My experience
Hey all,

As you can see, this is my first post. I have read about 80% of these threads looking at first for a solution to those annoying peek-a-boo scan lines.. I originally thought it was my HD box but once i had a loan of a Marantz DV-9500 and saw the problem when upscaling to 1080i, i was pretty sure the AE700 was the problem. I also had slight VB as well....

from what i have read on this forum i found my solution(s)

for VB:
i found that holding up a piece of white paper to the green in the flicker screen and adjusting for minimum flicker and then setting them all to the green setting (in my case 22), totally eliminated the vertical banding.

for scan lines:
turning off cinema reality mode - have not seen it since. not really sure what i'm losing here but it can't be as bad as those annoying lines on 1080i.

i guess i would like to thank everyone here for their interest and input. If it wasn't for this forum i'd still be harassing my local technicians who seem to have absolutely no idea compared to the wealth of knowledgeable users here....

i have clocked up about 600 hours on my PJ and am still stunned by the PQ. I think i recall momentary flickering and dimming (i think) once... I always run my PJ in low mode as i'm in a very light controlled room anyway.

after reading the 60 of the 80 odd pages here i'm still not sure about the filter situation. So if i may i'd like to ask a couple of questions that i'm sure have been answered, but i would really appreciate clarification.

in regards to filters,... are these filters creating better black levels or adjusting for colour push problems or both?

can someone please post the answer and which models and settings are appropriate (understanding that all PJ's are slightly different of course) for both colour and black level... and if one filter can do it all or do you require 2?

once again thanks guys for all the information and i do realise that the answer is in here but i'm still unsure based on what i've read and a post to sum up my questions would really help.

i hope my experience with VB and scan lines helps someone else


__________________
- nothing wrong with the quest for perfection, until it sends you insane -
--------------------------------
Dear SleepRequired and all VB tweakpersons


I tried holding up a piece of white paper to the green in the flicker screen 2 feet from the lense and adjusting for minimum flicker and then setting them all to the green setting (in my case 2A),did not eliminate the vertical banding. I tried adjusting for minimum flicker separatly for each color too.
To all tweakers, are your vb better? please post a picture too if you can.
I have Monster clean power that I switch off from wall plug.VB is very annoying wathing sports on green grass. It is like seeing true badly wiped windshield. Other than that picture is perfect. I am returning this if this does not get better in another 100 hours.
Firm 1.5
110 hours
htpc ATI 800X Component
d*tv h-10 hdmi

VB picture

Do not flicker adjust all the settings to equal, for example mine are set 26 blue, 29 red and 29 green and same for ceiling mount and i get no vertical banding, it doesn't work if you set all the levels the same, having said that each individual projector is different and another tip is that you should wait 30 minutes after switching the projector on and then adjust the flicker as the units flicker adjust changes as the lamp heats up, once set though you can leave it and it never needs adjusting again ( so far anyways )

I forgot to say i have firmware 1.07 and 68 hours clocked on the lamp.

Do not flicker adjust all the settings to equal, for example mine are set 26 blue, 29 red and 29 green and same for ceiling mount and i get no vertical banding, it doesn't work if you set all the levels the same, having said that each individual projector is different and another tip is that you should wait 30 minutes after switching the projector on and then adjust the flicker as the units flicker adjust changes as the lamp heats up, once set though you can leave it and it never needs adjusting again ( so far anyways )

I forgot to say i have firmware 1.07 and 68 hours clocked on the lamp.


__________________
www.DarkRealmFox.com
--------------------------------
In the immortal words of Daffy Duck To be or not to be ......


----------------------
is 1.7 better for vb?

DrA

When i did research before buying this projector i read that the firmware was updated to help with vertical banding so i assume it helps a little but i really couldn't say for sure, i don't suffer from it and the only thing i have noticed is the occasional peek a boo scan lines which for me are not annoying as they are very infrequent and only seen occasionally.

I just hope when my lamp reaches 400 hours its still going as strong and producing quality images as at the moment i find the image stunning and very colourful when fed a quality signal.

Originally posted by DrA
is 1.7 better for vb?

DrA

Nope, the fw update doesn't do anything for VB. I had R1.03 and sent it in for the update because I was getting the white flashes via HDMI. Solved that problem but made no change in VB. That being said though, my VB is very slight now and mostly unnoticeable. Nowehere near the level seen in your photos.

The way I adjusted the flicker was to go from whatever mode it is I usually use for viewing to the hidden menu and the flicker setting. I set the value for the least flicker in the RGB screens and duplicate those settings in the ceiling mode (my PJ is shelf mounted). It helps to defocus your eyes and not look at the setting font directly. After a couple of minutes, your eyes will be more sensitive to minor changes in flicker and even which part of the screen the flicker is most noticeable in. If a couple settings are fairly equal, I set it to the lower number.

One thing I discovered when I first got the PJ is that you can use some of the service mode screens to check your flicker settings. When you first enter service mode, you have a flat white screen which doesn't flicker. Hit the up button on the remote once and you have a white screen with horizontal lines which does show some flicker, the second up press gives a screen with vertical lines which also doesn't flicker much and the 3rd press will bring you to a screen with both vertical and horizontal lines which has the most obvious flicker of the service screens. With the flat white screen being #1, you can use screen #2 and #4 to check your flicker settings since these screens seem pretty sensitive to flicker from R, G and B flicker settings. Adjust to have minimal flicker on the service mode screens #2 and #4. (can be a bit time consuming going back and forth between the menus)

I also found that the first 150 hours or so, I had to change the flicker settings every so often, but after 150 hours, they stabilized. Turning off the power to the projector via the hard switch at the back of the unit (or from the UPS to my PJ in my case) has a large effect on the VB. Leaving the PJ in standby when I turn it off only with the remote still results in a huge increase in VB similar to what you're showing in your photos.

I have been experimenting with settings on the projector and found that if i turn sharpness up to 1 it adds a form of edge enhancement especially noticeable on subtitles but with some films 0 is just not sharp enough ( for my eyes ) and then i turned off the NR noise reduction and things got better at 0, the problem is that some films have had their detail levels at higher frequencies filtered and edge enhanced because of this so its a situation where some films look best at 0 where some others need a little sharpening but this also sharpens the edge enhancement which makes things look bad.

I thought projectors didn't suffer from the overscan problems that televisions have, why then if i go into the position menu and adjust horizontal position either way there seems to be a sizeable part of the image missing both left and right of the screen, anyone have any idea why this is and how to fix it so the entire image is showing ?

DrA, if you go a few pages back you'll find my detailed explanation on how to adjust flicker to minimize VB. With my customers PJ's I'm having at least good 95% success.

FoxyMulder
What are your sources? Does this happen with all of them?

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium
DrA, if you go a few pages back you'll find my detailed explanation on how to adjust flicker to minimize VB. With my customers PJ's I'm having at least good 95% success.

I must say, my unit does not benefit from doing it your way. Though I don't have a lot of VB, the image just seems "dirtier" with your setting method, as though FPN is somehow being increased . You never did explain your reasoning for why you felt the settings had to be offset, as I requested.

What you've suggested may work for some, but not me.

I support what djbluemax1 posted.

sorry,
ted

Well, all I can say is what I already did, that my method is estabilished from a pure bulk of PJ's my company is dealing with. We install in average 2-3 units a day. To us as I said works in more than 90% of cases where bulb is done over 50 hours. Maybe your major difference is quality of your local electricity distribution and fact that you live in a 110V country. Besides that my "tweak" only applies as I said if your bulb is around 50 hours. Deatails, details.

Cheers

So does anyone know why the projector overscans and do all projectors do this, if you have a Toshiba dvd player try zooming out or use the Position and Horizontal mode and you will see picture information not being shown both left and right of the image, i would like a fix for this if possible, does anyone know how ?

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
So does anyone know why the projector overscans and do all projectors do this, if you have a Toshiba dvd player try zooming out or use the Position and Horizontal mode and you will see picture information not being shown both left and right of the image, i would like a fix for this if possible, does anyone know how ?

I does on all analog inputs except VGA - which is what I would expect as YCbCr is a broadcast video design from the Analog era where overscan is part of the game. It also does slightly on HDMI which though it was designed as an 'media' input I believe is wrong.

The only input on the 700 that does not overscan is VGA - I do not have Component breakout with my PC to test this.

Again I think this is common on all devices that are designed as "home entertainment" devices though I believe Yamaha pj's do not..

Be aware that DVD players also crop output.

ted

Originally posted by romanesq
After more than 1,000 hours on the AE700 I went ahead and flipped the switch. That is I reset the lamp hours and it then stated to shut down. At first I didn't but then I went ahead and did. There was a noticeable increase in the light. At restart, it did look brighter, especially the Pacers-Celtics game on ESPN.

On my 94' screen, the floor in Indiana looked absolutely bright. I had no complaints as an early adopter, (did the tweaks a long time ago: no VB, SDE) but this is interesting if nothing else.

After 1,000 hours I use the filter and it's great. I don't have any complaints after 1,000 hours and being one of the early adopters in October. The AE700 is terrific.

Unfortunately it doesn't work for me (measured output) - though my bulb problem is likely just a bad bulb. I've experienced no 'flickering' as others have - (and I'm not convinced *that* is a bulb issue) just what I consider to be excessive light loss.

romanesq, could you please indulge me?
If you've a meter, can you measure the output of your 700 in NORMAL and VIDEO - preferably in factory - with a 100 IRE source - full screen from AVIA is best as it does not invoke the filter. Leaving the filter on is fine, and if you don't want to reset to factory just tell me what your amp settings are.

ted

Originally posted by romanesq
I'm sorry I can't provide the actual measurements as I don't have a meter. I just pointed out the change as I hit the button resetting the lamp hours. It was quite clear when it changed. Then I powered down and back up. It appeared to retain the "new" lamp setting.

I've been using the Brad Bissel settings with the filter.

Ok,
thanks for the response anyway.

ted

romanesq/tved: As I stated earlier I also went to reset the bulb life but decided to cancel (using the menu buttom). As it turned out my lumens clearly increased (looks as it did).

Since I did not reset the bulb, what difference does that make compared to if I did reset it?

Finally, TVed, I'm still looking for the opportunity to get that light meter.

PF

tvted, after my discovery that resetting lamp timer to zero fixes lamp flickering and makes it considerably brighter and considering my impression of your substantial knowledge on many technical dilemmas I have to say I am quite disappointed that you wouldn't have any clues about my posted inquiries. Details, details.

Cheers

For what it is worth, here is an incident light meter reading at the screen, from my PTAE700E, but there are so many variables, it may be not much use.
Firmware 1.05
Video source DVE, 100% white, component input
Lamp mode low, lamp hours 60
Picture mode Natural
Contrast +10
Proj. to screen 18ft.
Proj Aspect ratio setting 16:9
Zoom position minimum picture size (1.9m x 1.1m approx)
Light level 16ft candles
Light meter Sekonic-s (sorry, no digital accuracy here)

I see that the SMPTE recommendation for screen illumination is 12 - 22, assuming a screen gain of 1? So I am in the ball park.

Can someone give the rationale (not the technical explanation) for why resetting the lamp timer should change the behavior of the same lamp remaining in the projector?

(Or why the lamp current should be intentionally varied over the anticipated life of the lamp using a pre-programmed formula so as in this case to result in more rapid dimming compared with not varying the lamp current.)

Allan,

Good question. I have my doubts that its a deliberate attempt to cause users to prematurely replace the bulb and probably has something to do with varying the voltage to an aging bulb to get the most from it. Its all speculation, though and I doubt anybody but Panasonic could provide a definitive answer.

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium
tvted, after my discovery that resetting lamp timer to zero fixes lamp flickering and makes it considerably brighter and considering my impression of your substantial knowledge on many technical dilemmas I have to say I am quite disappointed that you wouldn't have any clues about my posted inquiries. Details, details.

Cheers

Excuse me?
This comes out of left field.

I do have some thoughts - I've expressed them in the past in this here thread. Not many seem to care about the Analog nature of LCD chips, D to A and poorly implemented Voltage Control of the chips, not to mention Clock Phase of the synchronizing clocks that step the panels. Nor ballast boards and poor supply regulation. I've a general knowledge of how electronics work - like many here. This doesn't mean I've scooped out the innards of a digital PJ with my scalpel. I simply wanted to know what *you* thought.

I've simply stated that none of the tweaks you mentioned have worked for me - I gave you enough credit to try them. I never suggested they would not work for others. Though I believe in trying anything reasonable (why not?) when troubleshooting, I *do* like to get an impression of the why. I was counting on the impression you gave of your wide experience with Projectors and the 700 specifically - considerably greater than mine. Was I wrong?

Are you sure you want to get into this? *I* don't.

ted

Originally posted by Allan Jayne
Can someone give the rationale (not the technical explanation) for why resetting the lamp timer should change the behavior of the same lamp remaining in the projector?

(Or why the lamp current should be intentionally varied over the anticipated life of the lamp using a pre-programmed formula so as in this case to result in more rapid dimming compared with not varying the lamp current.)

I presume you are talking about my speculations earlier. I'm not sure either. The basic idea was that reduced lamp current would extend the life of the lamp. The difference between high lamp mode and low lamp mode is lamp current. The less current the dimmer it gets but the longer it lasts.

As for rationale... Bright lamps sell projectors. But early bulb failures do not. Most people either won't notice a slow dimming or will expect it as thats what projector bulbs do anyway (perhaps not to the same extent).

As for brightening the old bulb when you reset the timer, they don't expect you to do this. You're not supposed to reset the timer unless you replace the bulb. You weren't supposed to notice. I know that the old projectors used to have a way of sensing that a new bulb was present. Obviously the 700 doesn't. The technology for doing this was not reliable (sensing bulb resistance or using fuses).

Again, just speculation.

Originally posted by Rumpty
For what it is worth, here is an incident light meter reading at the screen, from my PTAE700E, but there are so many variables, it may be not much use.
Firmware 1.05
Video source DVE, 100% white, component input
Lamp mode low, lamp hours 60
Picture mode Natural
Contrast +10
Proj. to screen 18ft.
Proj Aspect ratio setting 16:9
Zoom position minimum picture size (1.9m x 1.1m approx)
Light level 16ft candles
Light meter Sekonic-s (sorry, no digital accuracy here)

I see that the SMPTE recommendation for screen illumination is 12 - 22, assuming a screen gain of 1? So I am in the ball park.

Ahh.. the Aussies come through again.

Thanks rumpty - that provides me with a reference.
I would like more if anyone cares to play.

I've duplicated your settings -except for projection distance - which doesn't matter as screen size is the determinant here. I also assume the primary amps are performing similarly - so the only difference of consequence should be the bulb. (Anyone disagree?)

I'm at 450 hrs so nothing I can do about that.
My measure, ta dahhhhh....
4.1 Foot Candles
So I'm 1/4 or 25% (2 F-Stops below) of your measurement. Yikes.
Methinks me bulb is crap of the first order.

Nothing wrong with a Sekonic btw - I've used one for a heck of a long time - though its not what I'm using here.

As to your question - you've plenty of light. As far as I know, Ft Lamberts = Ft Candles assuming the gain of the reflecting surface is 1.
See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=535607) if my reasoning matters.

BTW those SMPTE recommendations are just that - some of us *do* prefer less output, as there are those who are only happy with considerably more. It really depends on your room.

Again thanks muchly for your input - it provides me with some perspective - and arguments to present Panasonic.

ted

ouch Ted. your projector is sick:)

Originally posted by Durabolin
ouch Ted. your projector is sick:)

Yep,
Good thing I'm a bat.
But let's not invite the wrong impression.
My *bulb* is ailing, the box is fine and dandy. ;)
Let sleeping dogs...
if you know what I mean.,,,

Soon fix.

ted

EDIT becaws I cnt spill

I've just had a bit of a play, everytime i turn my PJ on i was seeing very visible VB but after a while say ~30mins they'd dissapear a bit... and i've played with the Flicker Aj. setting previously... just did it again, doing as suggested and waiting for it to warm up... my current settings are now B27 R26 G29 for both the Desk & Ceiling settings, and i dont seem to have any VB showing... also the other thing is noticably had was those scanlines, seems to have rid me of those aswell... we'll see how it goes, but i think it might be A-OK :)

Regards,

SiriX...

Well, I have a few suggestions on how to fix everybodys problems with this PJ:

1.get rid of it
or
2.stop bitching about every little thing and just use it (it's only $2K thing)
or
3.repalce it with plasma or LCD/DLP rear projection TV
or
4.dig deep and buy $10K+ PJ

Cheers

Any suggestions for a 30ft HDMI cable. I purchased one from Monoprice.com and it works fine for the HDtivo but it doesn't like the Denon 3910. I get drop outs. The Denon does work with the shorter cable it came with.

Anyknown problems with HDMI cables I should know about?

Originally posted by canthony15
As for rationale... Bright lamps sell projectors. But early bulb failures do not.
Thanks.

Carbo, are you using the 24G cable or the 28G cable. I have the 25' Monoprice 24g cable and it works fine with the Panasonic 97S. 30' is a long run for HDMI you may have to experiment with different cables. I had a Lindy 30' cable and I had the same problem with drop outs. Check to see if you have spakles on black credits. That is a good test of a cable. Monopice will let you return a cable with no restocking fee so you might want to try another combination they have.

I bought a 30' HDMI to DVI cable from Ram Electronics. It's a little pricey but I never had any problem. I wanted peace of mind with this cable and didn't want to "test and return" different brands. It had worked flawlessly so far.


Originally posted by Carbo
Any suggestions for a 30ft HDMI cable. I purchased one from Monoprice.com and it works fine for the HDtivo but it doesn't like the Denon 3910. I get drop outs. The Denon does work with the shorter cable it came with.

Anyknown problems with HDMI cables I should know about?

Originally posted by 3D Quadrium

Well, I have a few suggestions on how to fix everybodys problems with this PJ:

(snip)

4.dig deep and buy $10K+ PJ

Cheers

Spending 10K won't guarantee anything and increasing the spend is not a solution.

It's a common misconseption with digital to believe that if you spend more you will erradicate the problems.

If you buy digital, you have to accept what goes with the territory and what goes with the territory (at any price point) is what has been discussed here and elsewhere with other brands and models.

The high-end Sony Qualia comes with a spare lamp - why? Because Sony knows it can blow at any time. Polarisers will fail on any LCD device - given time. The organic compounds used to create the colour base will fade and pixels will fail and LCD lag is simply a fact of life.

One only way to ameliorate the problems of digital projection is to insist that manufacturers stand behind their products and that consumers don't accept poor engineering or implementation of that engineering. (See open letter).

If you want to totally erradicate the problems of lamp failure, polariser replacement, dust blobs, vertical banding/fixed panel noise, colour uniformity and dead/stuck pixels, there's only one option to take.

CRT.

If you want to totally erradicate the problems of lamp failure, polariser replacement, dust blobs, vertical banding/fixed panel noise, colour uniformity and dead/stuck pixels, there's only one option to take.

CRT. CRT comes with it's own baggage. Burn in, blown transistors, convergence issues, corner to corner focus issues, size, noise, etc...

Keep the CRT debate in the CRT forum.
Continue to sway this thread off topic and all your posts will be deleted without warning.
Kysersose

*writes in Kysersose for President*

Thank you sir.

I think it is the Denon not the cable. The cable is the HDMI male to HDMI male 24AWG cable - 50ft (Gold Plated). I know its long but it works fine with the HDTivo. The difference with the two devices is that the HDTivo has a snug fit. The Denon is loose and barely holds the cable.

I am not entirely sold on this players picture being worth it so I am going to return it and try something else. Maybe the Onkyo 1000 or New Yammy 2500.

It sounds like the player HDMI connection. There have been some problems with internal connectors. The 24AWG cable works fine for me and I am using it with a switch box and a Panasonic 97S and a Scientific
Atlanta HD cable box with no problems.

Hi guys

Sorry for the lack up updates

As you all I know I had the brightness flicker and took my AE700 to a service centre.

All they did was upgrade the firmware to 1.07.

Since then it hasn't flickered once.

I know some people here with 1.07 still get flashing so the only thing I can think that causes it is: Something with the software stuffs up causing the flicker. The way to fix it is 'format' the software and reinstall. Like Windows? hehe

Anyway... I thought I would let people know the flicker was a SOFTWARE problem and not caused by faulty hardware.

Also... I have pretty observant eyes and in 550 hours I havn't noticed any change in brightness at all in my lamp since hour 1.

If there is... it has been VERY SUBTLE. I got my projector in Nov 2004 - so its one of the early models too

Just thought I'd update my situation

Cheers
:)

Originally posted by Carbo
Any suggestions for a 30ft HDMI cable. I purchased one from Monoprice.com and it works fine for the HDtivo but it doesn't like the Denon 3910. I get drop outs. The Denon does work with the shorter cable it came with.

Anyknown problems with HDMI cables I should know about?

i'm using a 10m HDMI to HDMI cable i bought from Lindy. it works fine connected to my scientific atlanta 8300HD box from time warner. cost me about $90 or so.

In another thread it was reported that the problem was not the cable but the Denon 3910 input. I had a problem with the Lindy cable with the
Scientific Atlanta. I had sparkles and noise. The HDMI 24G Monoprice cable worked fine for me with a Panasonic 97S and the Scientific Atlanta with an adaptor.

Originally posted by tvted
Ahh.. the Aussies come through again.

Hey Ted,
Auckland is actually in New Zealand !, oh I forgot, it's that island next to tasmania, enough geo lessons, replace your lamp and tell us all
:)

No matter how I adjust the panels for flicker, I still get horrible vertical banding on my 700. I also power down after each use. I have 300+ hours on the bulb.

Anything with green background is pretty much unwatchable. I'm not sure why my projector seems to be worse than others, but I did notice the AC power cord that came with my projector does not plug firmly, all the way in, to my projector.
I never really thought twice about this, as the projector obviously powers up just fine, but now I'm begining to wonder if this could have an effect on the banding.
Anyone else expeirence this? Is there any possible way this could be affecting the banding on my projector?

The Denon is back in the box ready for return and the cable is once again working perfect in on the HDtivo. I am going to try a Onkyo sp1000 and see how that works.

Got an open box from Vanns for $1k.

Hopefully it works and looks good.

Originally posted by VTEChump
No matter how I adjust the panels for flicker, I still get horrible vertical banding on my 700. I also power down after each use. I have 300+ hours on the bulb.

Anything with green background is pretty much unwatchable. I'm not sure why my projector seems to be worse than others, but I did notice the AC power cord that came with my projector does not plug firmly, all the way in, to my projector.
I never really thought twice about this, as the projector obviously powers up just fine, but now I'm begining to wonder if this could have an effect on the banding.
Anyone else expeirence this? Is there any possible way this could be affecting the banding on my projector?

Not really. A poor connection at the power cord would make the PJ operate erratically, going off and on unexpectedly. There is no way that a poor connection to the line would cause vertical banding.

Tony

I know search is my friend but I have really been scouring everywhere about this...

I have been tweaking my HTPC endlessly trying to get rid of stuttering/juddering on pans, which seems to plague me only when connected to the AE700. (ie. I also connect to a TV and don't have problems on it.)

I have tried fiddling with the refresh rate but cant find anything but 60Hz that works. I have tried adjusting PCI latency, reclock, everything I can find and still I find the stuttering in pans distracting.

Is this a limitation I just need to live with or have others been able to get rid of it. What were you secrets???

Please help...

AFAIK, the AE700 is not capable of frame rates of 24fps or any multiple thereof so any movies (which generally use 24fps) will judder across the screen because of the 3:2 pulldown.

Stuttering during pans is par for the course in my opinion. Movies shown at the theatre do it as well.

According to my instruction manual cinema reality turned on produces 24fps on the Panasonic AE700, therefore it is capable of it, also worth noting i don't see these stuttering effects so perhaps its a setting on your dvd player or projector that needs changed ( or HTCP if ur using that )

Can't say i notice any stuttering during pans at the theatre either. Its the 3:2 pulldown effect on ntsc material that causes it but if you have a progressive dvd player or an HTCP then you can usually get rid of the annoying effect.

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
According to my instruction manual cinema reality turned on produces 24fps on the Panasonic AE700, therefore it is capable of it, also worth noting i don't see these stuttering effects so perhaps its a setting on your dvd player or projector that needs changed ( or HTCP if ur using that )

Can't say i notice any stuttering during pans at the theatre either. Its the 3:2 pulldown effect on ntsc material that causes it but if you have a progressive dvd player or an HTCP then you can usually get rid of the annoying effect.

No the Panasonic is still displaying a 60 HZ frame rate, Cinemas Reality refers to the 3:2 decoding that is necessary to reverse the way that film is encoded on a DVD. DVD's are *interlace* not progressive but progressive material is either stored 2:2 or 3:2 (film at 30 fps [TV] or film at 24 fps [Cinema]) which is basically how it is encoded to fit within a 60 Hz frame rate.
Judder is still possible depending on the quality of the scaler / MPEG decoder.

See http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/calibration/middle_gray/ for the best explanation of this process - both for progressive (Film) and interlaced (Video) source which I repeat is stored as *interlaced* fields on a DVD. In films case - because the separate fields are from the same temporal frame there are no *interlace* artifacts but 3:2 and 2:2 allows for a rebuilding of the image to work within a 60 hz frame rate.

ted

Originally posted by SuperRabbit0
I know search is my friend but I have really been scouring everywhere about this...

I have been tweaking my HTPC endlessly trying to get rid of stuttering/juddering on pans, which seems to plague me only when connected to the AE700. (ie. I also connect to a TV and don't have problems on it.)

I have tried fiddling with the refresh rate but cant find anything but 60Hz that works. I have tried adjusting PCI latency, reclock, everything I can find and still I find the stuttering in pans distracting.

Is this a limitation I just need to live with or have others been able to get rid of it. What were you secrets???

Please help...

What is your decoder?

I use Zoomplayer with ffdshow and Dscaler5. I've yet to see "judder" on my display. I do see a lot of Deinterlacing artifacts with Video material but that is because Dsaler5 is as of yet not good with Video source - turning on deinterlacing in ffdshow or using WinDVD codecs solves the problem quite nicely - and as I said there is no issue with film based source.

ted

I use WinDVD decoder with MCE 2005. Although I have the same judder effect using Win DVD directly.

I'm glad to hear some people do not see this judder. Makes me assume I can get rid of it.

Maybe I'll try DScaler. I know its free so it cant hurt. Ive tried NVidia decoders but have had problems getting them to work at all on my machine. Do you connect to your Ae700 through VGA or DVI. Does that matter? I use VGA.

Its too bad because movies look so great through the HTPC until a scene with a panning comes along and then I find it so distracting. Its a real problem.

Is this Cinema Reality a setting I turn on as it seems to say above? I've never seen that option. Off to my manual....

Originally posted by SuperRabbit0
I use WinDVD decoder with MCE 2005. Although I have the same judder effect using Win DVD directly.

I'm glad to hear some people do not see this judder. Makes me assume I can get rid of it.

Maybe I'll try DScaler. I know its free so it cant hurt. Ive tried NVidia decoders but have had problems getting them to work at all on my machine. Do you connect to your Ae700 through VGA or DVI. Does that matter? I use VGA.

Its too bad because movies look so great through the HTPC until a scene with a panning comes along and then I find it so distracting. Its a real problem.

Is this Cinema Reality a setting I turn on as it seems to say above? I've never seen that option. Off to my manual....

VGA 1:1 mapped at 1280 x 720 60 hz.
Are you feeding it some funky rez?

ted

Same here, VGA 1280x720 HTPC

No stutters or judders or anything else except for smooth pans.

However I use a Radeon 9600 pro and the 6517 drivers. These have a wonderfull little button that says "force720p".

Gotta love that.

Then I just hit auto setup and everything was ticketty boo.

If I remember correctly cinema reality option is not available for VGA.

Oh, I should point out that I use Power DVD 5.

Thinking about getting TT.

I am really concerned about my AE700. I have a heavy green push mainly when watching DVD's. It is to the point where I have to set green contrast and green bright to -16 each. I have tried multiple players as well as component vs HDMI but I still have the issue. My main player is the Bravo D2 but I also used an older Pioneer that plays discs at 480i. I've also performed SMART III on it but it still has problems.

Are other member experiencing the same thing? Is it likely the projector, the player, the source? Are there any sure fire ways to determine if it is the projector or something else.

scheuled

While using component cable, verify that green and blue are not crossed.

What you're describing, if not crossed wires, would be considered gray scale problems, not green push. Green push would be something dealing with the color decoder.

Would also suggest returning all settings to original values to see if that is closer.

Let us know what happens.

Dear PTAE700 friends,

I guarantee you all, that I read every single post in this forum. It took quite a long time and my super-honest opinion after I read "the whole lot" is that we should all definitely look into dropping this thread...stopping it once and for all because everything has been said, if you are willing to read back far enough anybody will find out everything there is to find out.
How about somebody starts a new thread about experiences with different types and sizes of screeens used with this projector and good or bad results, accordingly?

Cheers.

How about a nic ebig RECAP to end the thread!
PROBLEM FIXABLE? How to fix

I guarantee you all, that I read every single post in this forum. It took quite a long time and my super-honest opinion after I read "the whole lot" is that we should all definitely look into dropping this thread...stopping it once and for all because everything has been said, if you are willing


Not to be rude or a cynic, but how do you know that all has been say, 'cause something might be said that was not. I might have something to say that has not been said. Just last week for example you would know that I said something that was never said, but you must know that already since it's been said.

You might have a good point, but it should be clarifiied as there is alot of repitition in this thread. But that is the case throughout the forum. It would be nice if the thread was organized and broken down so that when one want to refer to it searching it is simpler. I'm not up to the task.

It should not be closed, but perhaps a tweak thread #2 should be made and if topics there that have been mentionned in #1 then it could be referenced.

PF

I guarantee you all, that I read every single post in this forum. It took quite a long time and my super-honest opinion after I read "the whole lot" is that we should all definitely look into dropping this thread...stopping it once and for all because everything has been said, if you are willing


Not to be rude or a cynic, but how do you know that all has been say, 'cause something might be said that was not. I might have something to say that has not been said. Just last week for example you would know that I said something that was never said, but you must know that already since it's been said.

You might have a good point, but it should be clarifiied as there is alot of repitition in this thread. But that is the case throughout the forum. It would be nice if the thread was organized and broken down so that when one want to refer to it searching it is simpler. I'm not up to the task.

It should not be closed, but perhaps a tweak thread #2 should be made and if topics there that have been mentionned in #1 then it could be referenced.

PF

:D :D
One for each.

ted

Two days and no comments.

Is that a wrap?

I doubt it. Watch this space!

Ok here's an interesting thing for you all to ponder.

Last night I played the LFE demo disk on my PC, one of the clips is from Master and Commander.

What I saw surprised me so much I nearly fell out of my chair.

VB!!! Big time! horrible, horrible VB! On my PC monitor(CRT)!

So I whipped out my DVD of M&C and watched the same scene.....no VB.

Back to the demo disk, same scene....VB.

Checked on two other PC's for the same result. All CRT monitors of varying quality.

Now, is it possible that some people out there are blaming their PJ for the VB when it may be caused by something else? ie the source or the transfer?

I haven't tried this disk on my 700 yet, it's in it's box as the room is incomplete but the 100 hours I put on the PJ on various walls showed no VB at all.

Weird huh?:confused:

just tried the lamp reset on a bulb with 1000 hours..... it works! My brightness is back to the levels i remember

Originally posted by llamameat
just tried the lamp reset on a bulb with 1000 hours..... it works! My brightness is back to the levels i remember

Curious.
Was luminance flickering one of the artifacts when your bulb dimmed?
Mine dimmed, no flickering, and reset didn't work for me. If reset works in this instance, the bulb is not the source of the problem.

ted

I was watching Starsky and Hutch today when i noticed what appears to be a ghosting effect when a character was standing in front of blinds, the strange thing is it only happened during one moment in the film and despite the fact there are other scenes featuring blinds this problem was not repeated, its the only disc i have noticed this problem with, is this because of the projector or the disc ? if its the projectors fault is it fixable by doing something in the menu ?

I took the photos using a Sony 7.2megapixel camera although set it to vga mode so as to limit the file size for showing online.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/starsky.htm


http://www.darkrealmfox.com/DSC00854.JPG

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
I was watching Starsky and Hutch today when i noticed what appears to be a ghosting effect when a character was standing in front of blinds, the strange thing is it only happened during one moment in the film and despite the fact there are other scenes featuring blinds this problem was not repeated, its the only disc i have noticed this problem with, is this because of the projector or the disc ? if its the projectors fault is it fixable by doing something in the menu ?



Looks like Edge Enhancement to me. You might try lowering your SHARPNESS. I find the Sharpness settings on the 700 a little high for my taste, not to mention that way too many DVD's are encoded that way - people just think that outlining edges with noise somehow makes for "sharper" pictures not realizing that "sharpness" is a perceived quality.

So its likely the DVD but reducing your Sharpness may help. If you are satisfied with the rest of your collection you might just leave it where it is and accept it for this particular DVD.

Ok, done with one of my particular peeves now. ;)

ted

Not edge enhancement sharpness is zero i have no edge enhancement, thanks for reply though, the disc in question contains lots of edge enhancement and will be getting a bad review from me regarding this.

I write reviews for my website and that contains details regarding edge enhancement so i am well versed in it all.

Could it be the disc ?

Its the blinds which are in his face and going through his face that is the problem and not the edge enhancement around his body which is just part of the transfer.

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
Not edge enhancement sharpness is zero i have no edge enhancement, thanks for reply though, the disc in question contains lots of edge enhancement and will be getting a bad review from me regarding this.

I write reviews for my website and that contains details regarding edge enhancement so i am well versed in it all.

Could it be the disc ?

Its the blinds which are in his face and going through his face that is the problem and not the edge enhancement around his body which is just part of the transfer.

Ah now I see what you are after. :eek: :eek:

Were these originally Video or 16MM film masters?
If I remember the "look" of the show it was shot film.

That looks like video blooming.
SD video is not good at handling the extreme of video range (about 5 stops) that film or HD is. It is particularly apparent in back lit situations like this. So if this is from a Tape master that would have been an artifact that would have occurred with earlier telecine chains.

I'm still betting on a disk related issue. LCD (700) would not bloom like that.

ted

Originally posted by tvted
Ah now I see what you are after. :eek: :eek:

Were these originally Video or 16MM film masters?
If I remember the "look" of the show it was shot film.

That looks like video blooming.


Hi there its the Starsky and Hutch feature film so i would imagine it was shot on 35mm film, its pretty annoying but only one scene so hopefully i won't see it on more films, thanks for your help again.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/DSC00854.JPG

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
Hi there its the Starsky and Hutch feature film so i would imagine it was shot on 35mm film, its pretty annoying but only one scene so hopefully i won't see it on more films, thanks for your help again.


Allrightee then, ;)
A contemporary film - well the telecine chains have certainly changed since the TV series was made, so all I can honestly say is it *looks* like video blooming but I can't be sure. The only way to truly tell would be to try another PJ.

I assume you calibrated that particular source on the 700 so you could always try adjusting the Contrast (White Level) setting at *source* (if your player has such a control in its menu) - not the 700 - and watch what happens. Why I suggest "not the 700" is because it doesn't look like an LCD artifact, but try that too if you feel it might be worthwhile.

You're welcome - wish I could be I could be a little more helpful than offering sympathy though. ;)

ted

The ghosting looks like video blooming as Ted said.

The operator was probably out for a toilet break or grabbing a coffee and missed it. Happens all the time. Usually what they'll do is re-run the the scene, pull the controls back to minimize blooming and do a match edit to re-insert the scene back seamlessly. This scene obviously escaped the operator's attention.

tvted,
Yes, I was also suffering from flickering problems, which now seem to be gone.

Aussie, I never did receive that service manual. Can you try sending it to me again? Most of my friends and coworkers have had success with http://www.yousendit.com/ when trying to transfer large files across the net. You should still have my email address in PM, if not just PM me for it.

Cleaned up the thread.

Those who bicker with one another will have their posts deleted as well.

Make me do this too many times and I'll have no problem in shutting down this thread entirely.

Kysersose

geesh, my post got deleted

huh, well, i'm not the bad guy here, but whatever

you gotta do what you gotta do

just trying to make light of things

sorry about that....i think....

No problem, just cleaning up.
Carry on, just keep it on topic.

Kysersose

Hi guys I've owned a panni for 6 months now and I've begun to experience a couple of problems that perhaps can be tweaked out... 1st 2 dust blobs that appear only on dark shots; the second is a bit more complicated, after 45 min to an hour of use the green levels seem to pick up all on their own to the point of becoming annoyingly evident especially upon flesh tones giving them a greenish tone and turning grays into graygreens.... I've try'd compensating by lowering the green settings in the advanced menu but it seems like it keeps up with my adjustments... anyone else experienced this and has anyone a fix??? or should I just ship it to Heartland for a check up?

One of our colleagues has kindly provided some space on an ftp site where the Service Manual can be downloaded.

As the PDF file is about 20meg (lots of uncompressable-any-further JPEGs) it's a big load on his bandwidth. So I've PM'd him and asked if he wishes to make his address public on these pages. If he is prepared to do this, you'll be able to download the Service Manual without referring to me personally for it. If not, then it'll have to stay in the realm of one-on-one requests.

I've directed a couple of others to this site already, but as the requests are picking up in volume, I think we need to extend a courtesy to our colleague by asking if he minds providing and paying for the access out of the goodness of his heart.

Some of the things the service manual DOES or DOES NOT deal with:

1. Software Upgrades
The Service Manual will tell you how to upload new software, but will NOT (repeat NOT) provide you with that software. The only software on the disk I obtained from Panasonic is v1.03 (very old). Also, please be reminded that you DO need a special, proprietary Panasonic jig to convert from a D9-sub port to the edge connector-type comms port on the projector. You also need to remove the lid (and void warranty) to get to this edge connector.

2. Self Scheck mode
There is a middle-level explanation of the Self Check Mode table and parameters. It does not mention GREEN versus RED listings, so they're anyone's guess. It DOES give you the vital information that "OK" means "OK" and "NG" means "NG". Some help, but not the answer to a maiden's prayer.

3. EXT Menu
The EXT menu is discussed in detail and some of the more cryptic selections are reasonably outlined. A few myths are exploded as well. If this is all you want the Service manual for then don't waste the bandwidth. Read my 2 write-ups of the manual on pages 80 and 81 of this thread. They're comprehensive.

4. Circuit and Disassembly Diagrams
There is a comprehensive set of circuit diagrams and disassembly instructions (including how to get the lens out, which I found potentially useful... hint: there's a screw behind the decal on the front knob of the joystick). There is NO theory of operation. There IS a reasonably comprehensive set of troubleshooting flow charts, but these deal with outright failures, not operational problems. Most remedies given to faults require replacement parts, a good "electronics service technician" level of knowledge, test equipment (and courage). Performing any of these procedures would probably void warranty as you really do need to take the projector apart to do them.

Aussie Bob

I would love to have this service manual! I have been thinking about removing smoothscreen from AE700. But i need to know how to get the lens out. Hopefully smoothscreen is before or inside the lens. I really hope this can be done.

Strange that since the AE300 came out nobody knows what part and where the smoothcreen is located????? Somebody must know! Please speak out if you know anything.

I finally sold my ultra sharp unsmoothened AE100 for 850 us dollars today! I only lost 1700 dollars on it :)

I had a dream last night about AE900, and it had 1080 panels inside and no smoothscreen.

The colleague who is hosting the manual hasn't got back to me yet (it was only this morning I PM'd him).

Sending it myself on a one-off basis to various members is not practical, so we'll have to wait and see if our colleague wants to get involved.

Until then, I hope y'all understand that I'm not going to make his identity public as he's sure to be bombarded with requests.

Patience, please.

Remember: the manual's not all that you think it might be. Many of the more complicated questions that have been asked here are not addressed at all. There is NO theory of operation, or explanations as to how the smooth-sceen works (for instance). It's all "caveat emptor" as soon as you undo your first screw.

In other words, it's pretty basic apart from the circuit diagrams which are comprehensive, but very, VERY hard to read (small lettering, lots of ASICs whose function is not explained).

I re-read my write up and it contains 99% of all you'd need to know, unless you're going to start getting serious, disassembling and voiding warranties willy-nilly.

Pages 80-81 of this thread for those interested.

Aussie Bob, since blownpixel got himself eradicated:) the page numbers have changed. Do you or anyone else know your post's new location (page numbers) ?

Kysersose, your, what must have been very time consuming task is appreciated by all.

Originally posted by exsodius
Aussie Bob

I would love to have this service manual! I have been thinking about removing smoothscreen from AE700. But i need to know how to get the lens out. Hopefully smoothscreen is before or inside the lens. I really hope this can be done.

Strange that since the AE300 came out nobody knows what part and where the smoothcreen is located????? Somebody must know! Please speak out if you know anything.

I finally sold my ultra sharp unsmoothened AE100 for 850 us dollars today! I only lost 1700 dollars on it :)

I had a dream last night about AE900, and it had 1080 panels inside and no smoothscreen.

Is smoothscreen a physical device or some software feature to the deinterlacer or scaler?

I think it has to be an "optical" device like the "IMX" lens that multiplies pixels (1 x 4)

Just a clue if it hasen't been posted. Opening the case is a snap. But be careful, you have to remove the rubber insert on the lens shift knob then insert a flat-blade screwdriver to unscrew, loosening is CLOCK-WISE, just the opposite of what comes naturally:)..too much strength the wrong way will break off the small screws shaft.

I just double-checked and my Service Manual commentary's still on pages 80-81 (two posts).

I use a 1600x1200 pixel monitor. Would this make a difference to the pagination? (i.e. is pagination dependent on the individual's monitor settings?)

If not, take a look: pp. 80-81.

I'd be interested to see in the projector circuit what, if any, voltage regulation/control there is on the lamp. Do small mains voltage variations affect the brightness? Has anyone tried a variac on their projector to see if varying the voltage input changes the brightness? I don't have one available, unfortunately.

Originally posted by JimmyR
I think it has to be an "optical" device like the "IMX" lens that multiplies pixels (1 x 4)

Just a clue if it hasen't been posted. Opening the case is a snap. But be careful, you have to remove the rubber insert on the lens shift knob then insert a flat-blade screwdriver to unscrew, loosening is CLOCK-WISE, just the opposite of what comes naturally:)..too much strength the wrong way will break off the small screws shaft.

I broke mine :) I have exchanged it, so now i will open it CLOCK-WISE.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
I just double-checked and my Service Manual commentary's still on pages 80-81 (two posts).

Aussie Bob, you can adjust your page display parameters in this forum so it may be different for everyone. Are these the posts?
Aussie Bob's Service Manual Commentary Part 1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5478910#post5478910)
Aussie Bob's Service Manual Commentary Part 2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5482222#post5482222)

Lightjug, thanks..

exsodius, I'll confess, me too:)

Urgent question:

Can you place the AE700 so the lens is at the mid-point / middle of the screen?

I know normally you want to have the lens at the top or bottom of the screen, but I may have a problem.

Does anyone know if I can put the lens at the middle point of my 16:9 110" screen and throw an appropriate image? I would be at approximately at 1x for the throw distance...

Best,

Stieger

Originally posted by llamameat
just tried the lamp reset on a bulb with 1000 hours..... it works! My brightness is back to the levels i remember

Is this for real?

Has anyody else done this? with the same results?

Originally posted by JimmyR
Lightjug, thanks..

exsodius, I'll confess, me too:)

No way! :) Finally i found one with enough guts to open his panny. Why did you open yours? I am soo curious about electrical stuff, that i open every thing i have :) Did you open it so much that you saw the little lens behind the big lens?

Yes, opened and took off the big board on top of the panels searching for the "smoothe screen" optics. No answers yet, but going to keep digging :).

Originally posted by JimmyR
Yes, opened and took off the big board on top of the panels searching for the "smoothe screen" optics. No answers yet, but going to keep digging :).

Look at this picture!
I think our best chances is the little round lens in the back of the big lens. I believe that is the smoothscreen. What do you think?

Originally posted by Rumpty
I'd be interested to see in the projector circuit what, if any, voltage regulation/control there is on the lamp. Do small mains voltage variations affect the brightness? Has anyone tried a variac on their projector to see if varying the voltage input changes the brightness? I don't have one available, unfortunately.

I haven't tried such a test, but I can say that the quality of the AC waveform does have an impact on the bulb ballast (not just the PQ as others have claimed/found). In a not-so-super-scientific test I pulled the plug on my UPS to verify it was up to the load of running my PC, receiver, and the PJ, and when switching over to battery power the ballast in the projector began emitting a pretty unpleasant buzzing sound. Exactly what you hear when a flourescent bulb ballast is on it's way out. I'm sure it's because the PJ doesn't care much for the step-approximated AC that most UPSs under $300 put out (this is an APC 1000VA model). I'm OK with that behavior as the only thing I'm concerned with is keeping the fan running for an emergency shutoff in case of power blackout - I'll shut the bulb off if the power quits, and the electronics' DC power supply isn't bothered in the least by the chunky AC waveform (in an operational sense). But it's a data point as to the interaction of the AC mains and the bulb ballast.

In an unrelated comment, last night I did some back-to-back testing of DVD playing via HTPC (Zoom Player w/ Cyberlink DVD and FFDshow post-processing) vs. component input from a run-of-the-mill Sony DVD player. I had previously gotten all excited about the prospect of using FFDshow to "simulate" a little more resolution out of standard def DVD video, via using the Lancosz scaler to go native 1280x720 with some luma/chroma sharpening and a little unsharp masking. Well, I ripped one of my DVDs to disk, popped the DVD in the player, and queued them up so they were playing in sync. Then I could very easily A/B the image quality just by switching input modes on the PJ. I had already gone through and adjusted the picture parameters for consistant color/brightness/contrast/etc... between the VGA and YPrPb inputs, so that wasn't a factor in this test.

What I found was that the internal scaler on the PJ does a phenominally good job with scaling standard 480i/p material, and there was NO BENEFIT at all to using FFDshow via the PC. Definitely not what I was expecting. Certainly I could play with more options on FFDshow (and I did, for a few hours), but the image quality was to the point where trying to squeeze any more perceived resolution out of it only made for more noise and a less pleasing image - basically, a $75 Sony DVD player feeding the projector 480i looked every bit as sharp and clear as a significantly more complicated HTPC setup. Surprising, but gratifying - of course I'll still use the PC for computer stuff, playing any sort of downloaded media and recorded TV etc..., but it's nice to know that for DVDs, the the "out of the box" solution provided by Panasonic is very well optimized.

One thing is for sure - the FAQs available online that show "before/after" photos of what they claim are with-FFDshow vs. without-FFDshow, are distinctly misleading. Or I should clarify - certainly, using the HTPC and just scaling your DVD up with the default media player or settings results in that blurry image you see in the "before" pics, and enabling some of the nifty features in FFDshow gets you that sparkly clean "after" pic - but that's only relevant to comparing before/after FFDshow settings, NOT comparing PC scaler vs. PJ scaler.

Those of you that use the VGA inputs exclusively should try out this little test. I was really expecting to see the vastly superior results of using a PC to scale and process, but at the end of the day the differences are very very subtle and you can't beat the simplicity of dropping a disk into your DVD player. Score one for the Panasonic engineers :)

stieger
yep, middle should be very very good.

I'm really glad I didn't remove my projector housing seeing that I had to have a warranty service for my lamp. Call it karma, or predilection, but I think that helped when it came time to getting the bulb replaced. No scratches on the screws, no hair inside the case. "Hmm.l.. this guy hasn't tried to fiddle...".

Now for the news you've all been waiting for

Our colleague (who shall remain nameless until he outs himself), has agreed to my publishing his Service Manual download site.

It's here: http://www.happyapplefarm.net/~avs/

Don't forget it's a 20 meg PDF file, so don't abuse the privelege (or the bandwidth) he's so generously offered all of us.

Happy tinkering...

Aussie Bob

Wow! Excelent! Now the beginning of the destroying begins :)

Thanks a lot!

I have read through the whole service manual roughly. And there actually is a way to adjust convergence!! And nobody here have a perfect convergence on their AE700. So this was great news!

Thank you Bob and he who shall remain nameless!

Dave

"I'm really glad I didn't remove my projector housing seeing that I had to have a warranty service for my lamp. Call it karma, or predilection, but I think that helped when it came time to getting the bulb replaced. No scratches on the screws, no hair inside the case. "Hmm.l.. this guy hasn't tried to fiddle..."."//Aussie Bob
..................................
Well Aussie some of us just can't help ourselves, the urge is just too strong .

I you use the correct size phillips driver (with electrical tape on the shaft just below the fins) you won't scratch the insert holes and shouldn't mess up the screw heads. If you do ding a screw or two a dab of black paint is the cure. The last one... you may have me..........
"Hair"... what's that ??

FWIW..I hope it goes back together and works, this one hasn't been plugged in yet.
Hear that exsodius, I'm probably more compulsive than you :).

Perfect convergence is possible if you have a "towel" :)

Originally posted by exsodius
Look at this picture!
I think our best chances is the little round lens in the back of the big lens. I believe that is the smoothscreen. What do you think?

When I have thought about how smooth screen could work it's come down to some sort of diffusion of the light before the panel. It could be after but I'd then expect the pixels on the screen to have blurier edges, they seen quite sharp when I have looked close. It looks like the pixel is widened by passing slightly scattered light through the LCD panel rather than purely parallel light. This could be from a very light frosting on a lense or slight disfocus of the light source that hits the panel.

Originally posted by JimmyR
"I'm really glad I didn't remove my projector housing seeing that I had to have a warranty service for my lamp. Call it karma, or predilection, but I think that helped when it came time to getting the bulb replaced. No scratches on the screws, no hair inside the case. "Hmm.l.. this guy hasn't tried to fiddle..."."//Aussie Bob
..................................
Well Aussie some of us just can't help ourselves, the urge is just too strong .

I you use the correct size phillips driver (with electrical tape on the shaft just below the fins) you won't scratch the insert holes and shouldn't mess up the screw heads. If you do ding a screw or two a dab of black paint is the cure. The last one... you may have me..........
"Hair"... what's that ??

FWIW..I hope it goes back together and works, this one hasn't been plugged in yet.
Hear that exsodius, I'm probably more compulsive than you :).

Perfect convergence is possible if you have a "towel" :)

Yes maybe you are :)

JimmyR This ain't gonna be a problem. Just go mad inside it like me. And if we destroy something, we can get new parts from Aussie bob's AE700 :) He also got a new bulb, and he has never opened his projector. We have to make sure that we don't break the same parts JimmyR!

I hope Aussiebob don't read this.

Originally posted by Pilfer
When I have thought about how smooth screen could work it's come down to some sort of diffusion of the light before the panel. It could be after but I'd then expect the pixels on the screen to have blurier edges, they seen quite sharp when I have looked close. It looks like the pixel is widened by passing slightly scattered light through the LCD panel rather than purely parallel light. This could be from a very light frosting on a lense or slight disfocus of the light source that hits the panel.

I have to disagree :) Because whatever light you put before the panels won't make another structure than the panelpixelstrukture itself. So it have to be after the panels. Remember that the lens is focusing directly to the panels.

I'll add my thanks to Aussie Bob and the nameless one for making the service manual available. It's good to know that the convergence IS adjustable. Explains why I noticed an increase in divergence after sending my PJ in for the FW update. They either nudged something they shouldn't have or it could have been some shock or vibration during the shipping there or back. As soon as the warranty period is up, I'm opening this thing up and converging the panels. Who knows, maybe one of us will figure out a way to replace the Panny iris for something more like the HS51's iris. With the filter tweak and an iris like the HS51's, I think I could certainly live with a CR in the 6000+:1 region. ;)

It won't take long for people to figure out i'm hosting it, considering there is a link in my sig to my website with the same name. Anyway, I'll keep the manual up there as long as it needs to be, or until someone tells me to take it down.

Originally posted by exsodius
I have to disagree :) Because whatever light you put before the panels won't make another structure than the panelpixelstrukture itself. So it have to be after the panels. Remember that the lens is focusing directly to the panels.

The lens focuses the light passing through the panels and if it isn't all heading in the exact same direction it will have the effect of removing the gaps between the pixels.
To see when I mean get a square of card board and cut 2 1cm square holes side by side in it. Now under parallel, point source light (sunlight or a bulb at a distance is close enough) you end up with 2 1 cm square spots of light with a gap between them equal to their spacing on the cardbaord. Do the same with a non parallel, non point source, such as a flourencent tube and you can get the squares to touch because light is passing through at diffent angles.

Originally posted by ETTsiAWD


In an unrelated comment, last night I did some back-to-back testing of DVD playing via HTPC (Zoom Player w/ Cyberlink DVD and FFDshow post-processing) vs. component input from a run-of-the-mill Sony DVD player. I had previously gotten all excited about the prospect of using FFDshow to "simulate" a little more resolution out of standard def DVD video, via using the Lancosz scaler to go native 1280x720 with some luma/chroma sharpening and a little unsharp masking. Well, I ripped one of my DVDs to disk, popped the DVD in the player, and queued them up so they were playing in sync. Then I could very easily A/B the image quality just by switching input modes on the PJ. I had already gone through and adjusted the picture parameters for consistant color/brightness/contrast/etc... between the VGA and YPrPb inputs, so that wasn't a factor in this test.



Thanks for the info re the ballast board.

With regards to your A/B ing of your HTPC/DVD - my setup is similar so I must ask:
Is Lancoz set for more than 4? (It shouldn't be as noise is introduced - 2 works best for me)
Have you tried either Dscaler5 or Nvidea codecs?. I'm afraid the Cyberlink codecs are not highly regarded. Are you using Overlay or VMR9 modes? Have they been calibrated to reflect Video or PC levels?

I've done similar testing with various DVDs and I must say that the difference is *easily* appreciable.

My Pioneer player is connected with RG6 cables.
Recently in attempting to eliminate some "ringing" from my PC I bought a VGA cable from RAM. I didn't think it would make an overly appreciable difference, but that simple cable change with my PC was dramatic - enough so that my wife commented on it more that once.

For me the differences between a good pixel-mapped source with a good codec (Dscaler5 in my case) - calibrated for Video levels - and a 480 player is night and day.

btw - Welcome aboard the board. ;)

ted

Originally posted by djbluemax1
I'll add my thanks to Aussie Bob and the nameless one for making the service manual available. It's good to know that the convergence IS adjustable. Explains why I noticed an increase in divergence after sending my PJ in for the FW update. They either nudged something they shouldn't have or it could have been some shock or vibration during the shipping there or back. As soon as the warranty period is up, I'm opening this thing up and converging the panels. Who knows, maybe one of us will figure out a way to replace the Panny iris for something more like the HS51's iris. With the filter tweak and an iris like the HS51's, I think I could certainly live with a CR in the 6000+:1 region. ;)

I second this, and also thank Bob and cohort. Unlike exsodius I am too "reserved" where it comes to warrenties and though I've lots of experience sticking metal objects into high and low voltage boxes, like Bob, I believe that this attitude served me well on my recent bulb replacement adventure with Panasonic Canada. I wanted it checked under the 500 hr mark and, though they felt my bulb brightness was "OK", they replaced it anyway - they might not have been so kindly had I broken the seal.

ted

Originally posted by bapenguin
It won't take long for people to figure out i'm hosting it, considering there is a link in my sig to my website with the same name. Anyway, I'll keep the manual up there as long as it needs to be, or until someone tells me to take it down.

Thanks to you too mr "cohort" - I've enquired about purchasing it here several times in Canada - no go - guess they are still living with a Cold War mentality.

ted

I appreciate the efforts of all that have generously posted the service manual, but unfortunatly, the manual still leaves my questions unanswered:

In the service menus, what are the SD, and HDCP line items and what do they do? What do the different settings stand for? Are they levels of intensity or completely different settings?

Has anyone cracked the code on these items?

Thanks,
Scott

I am also wondering what FH refers to in the second hidden menu, mines is switched to off but what does it do ?

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
I am also wondering what FH refers to in the second hidden menu, mines is switched to off but what does it do ?

I thought about this too. And what i hoped FH mean't was FULL HEIGHT in the HDMI cropping issue.

I am just back from the airport looking at the keiser of Japans plane take off. Wow what a sound when it took off, it was like 20hz deep base rumbling. It's seldom we have big visits here in trondheim Norway.

Speculation about what mnemonics contained in the AE700 menus mean can be a fruitless exercise. Without wanting to write (another) essay, I cite one example: "RUNTIME PRT" (EXT menu).

Now what could that mean? Some sort of PoRT? Some sort of PRinT (video or otherwise) function? Well, no..

From the manual:

- RUNTIME PRT
Switching ON/OFF the shutdown when the operation time for the lamp unit is 2000 hours or longer

OK, my take is RUNTIME Power ReseT. But if you didn't have the hint from the manual, how would you ever guess that?

I fear that "FH" meaning "Full Height" is doomed, especially as it doesn't seem to do anything much (despite much attention paid to it by members here). I'm going for "False Hopes", myself.

All hail He Who Shall Remain Nameless no more...
The "Nameless One" has indeed outed himself. It's bapenguin. Please direct all checks, money orders, Western Union transfers and burnt offerings (probably your lamps when they won't replace them under warranty) to his good self. He's the real hero here.

Thanks, bapenguin, for all your help.

Improper Lamp Shutdown
I had my first hard (i.e. "improper") lamp power-down last night. Some electricity grid workers accidentally switched the street power off for 10 seconds while I had the projector on.

As soon as power was restored the fan started up, blew for about a minute and then the lamp came back on. All without any help from me (I was too busy crying).

Thinking about it, this is what happens when you turn the projector off normally (except for the 10 second gap of no fan activity). So I guess no harm was done. But it leads me to speculate that the controlled power-down is all about cooling the lamp and its housing quickly. Conversely: it hurts the lamp for it to cool down too slowly.

Any theoreticians out there care to comment? Tvted?

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Speculation about what mnemonics contained in the AE700 menus mean can be a fruitless exercise. Without wanting to write (another) essay, I cite one example: "RUNTIME PRT" (EXT menu).

Now what could that mean? Some sort of PoRT? Some sort of PRinT (video or otherwise) function? Well, no..

From the manual:

- RUNTIME PRT
Switching ON/OFF the shutdown when the operation time for the lamp unit is 2000 hours or longer

OK, my take is RUNTIME Power ReseT. But if you didn't have the hint from the manual, how would you ever guess that?

I fear that "FH" meaning "Full Height" is doomed, especially as it doesn't seem to do anything much (despite much attention paid to it by members here). I'm going for "False Hopes", myself.

All hail He Who Shall Remain Nameless no more...
The "Nameless One" has indeed outed himself. It's bapenguin. Please direct all checks, money orders, Western Union transfers and burnt offerings (probably your lamps when they won't replace them under warranty) to his good self. He's the real hero here.

Thanks, bapenguin, for all your help.

Improper Lamp Shutdown
I had my first hard (i.e. "improper") lamp power-down last night. Some electricity grid workers accidentally switched the street power off for 10 seconds while I had the projector on.

As soon as power was restored the fan started up, blew for about a minute and then the lamp came back on. All without any help from me (I was too busy crying).

Thinking about it, this is what happens when you turn the projector off normally (except for the 10 second gap of no fan activity). So I guess no harm was done. But it leads me to speculate that the controlled power-down is all about cooling the lamp and its housing quickly. Conversely: it hurts the lamp for it to cool down too slowly.

Any theoreticians out there care to comment? Tvted?

Ouch!

What damage the bulb is the hard power on when the bulb is warm. I would have turned the projector off at once at the main power switch, and have let it cool down a couple of hours before i switched it on again. Thats my opinion.

Listen to this: A female teacher at the scool here had a projector running. She wanted to move the projector and had to use another socket. She unplugged the projector while running without turning it off. Then she plugged it in another socket and turned it on, BIG BANG the bulb exploded! She did not know better.

Where is the EXT2 in the service manual?

And thanks to bapenguin you are my hero too!

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

Thinking about it, this is what happens when you turn the projector off normally (except for the 10 second gap of no fan activity). So I guess no harm was done. But it leads me to speculate that the controlled power-down is all about cooling the lamp and its housing quickly. Conversely: it hurts the lamp for it to cool down too slowly.

Any theoreticians out there care to comment? Tvted?

:D

So speculation on acronyms is "False Hope" - good one - but speculation from knuckleheads is somehow acceptable? ;)

I've seen it commented on in the rich guy forum, and the general consensus is that the quick cool down via fan is for cycle time that is - "oops I just thought of something else I want to watch" - just like RPTV's, and doesn't realy extend the life of the bulb. I defer to those more experienced than me. :eek:

ted

Originally posted by tvted
:D

So speculation on acronyms is "False Hope" - good one - but speculation from knuckleheads is somehow acceptable? ;)

I've seen it commented on in the rich guy forum, and the general consensus is that the quick cool down via fan is for cycle time that is - "oops I just thought of something else I want to watch" - just like RPTV's, and doesn't realy extend the life of the bulb. I defer to those more experienced than me. :eek:

ted

Hehe, good one ted. Don't be so shy now. I know you have something on your heart about the bulb cooling. Haven't you recently exchanged your bulb under warranty?

Hmm, i wonder if ted himself have been fooling around inside his panny. But he won't admit it. Spraypainting screws and all.

JimmyR cover me :)

Originally posted by tvted

I wanted it checked under the 500 hr mark and, though they felt my bulb brightness was "OK", they replaced it anyway - they might not have been so kindly had I broken the seal.

Can we be serious for a minute Ted and choose some more specific and appropriate language so others might gain a clearer expectation of their own lamp problems and Panasonic's reponse to them?

In my experience technicians seldom ever use the word 'happy' when contemplating warranty returns - it's either operating safely within expected performance envelope or it's not.

If it's not, it's replaced - if it is and the customer is still unhappy - that's when the trouble and the negotiations begin.

So given your measured output was below your threshold of acceptability (but within Panasonic's), is this now a benchmark for others to use as a point where the lamp should be replaced if under the 500 hour mark?

This may prove useful to thers if you would reperat your measured output that was replaced (if reluctantly) by Panasonic Canada.

Originally posted by blownpixel
Can we be serious for a minute Ted and choose some more specific and appropriate language so others might gain a clearer expectation of their own lamp problems and Panasonic's reponse to them?

In my experience technicians seldom ever use the word 'happy' when contemplating warranty returns - it's either operating safely within expected performance envelope or it's not.

If it's not, it's replaced - if it is and the customer is still unhappy - that's when the trouble and the negotiations begin.

So given your measured output was below your threshold of acceptability (but within Panasonic's), is this now a benchmark for others to use as a point where the lamp should be replaced if under the 500 hour mark?

This may prove useful to thers if you would reperat your measured output that was replaced (if reluctantly) by Panasonic Canada.

Mostly measured; gained a stop. Must muster the muscles to post. Was where I expected it to be - just not yet.

Speculation abounds -
Do they know something they don't want to admit to? Is this done to retain customer smiles? Did I threaten them with the mighty 700 army?
Conspiracies. I see conspiracies.

ted

Originally posted by exsodius
Hehe, good one ted. Don't be so shy now. I know you have something on your heart about the bulb cooling. Haven't you recently exchanged your bulb under warranty?

Hmm, i wonder if ted himself have been fooling around inside his panny. But he won't admit it. Spraypainting screws and all.

JimmyR cover me :)

:D

Its not the juice or the light, its the nuts and bolts - you need to be an auto mechanic.
Alas I lack courage, unlike your Nordic self.

ted

Originally posted by tvted

Do they know something they don't want to admit to? Is this done to retain customer smiles? Did I threaten them with the mighty 700 army? Conspiracies. I see conspiracies.

Well maybe not conspiracies but certainly some anomalies!

It is most unusual for any company to replace expensive parts when units are operating within their expected performance paramaters.

The question is what are the expected paramaters at the 500 hour mark?

But congratulations you perservered and won!

Now *TRACK* it!

Measure the new lamp at regular intervals I think Aussie Bob may have indicated he was doing the same. Compare some notes - because at or around the 500 hour mark, it will be interesting to see how they compare.

And if you are back to where you started from, then another discussion complete with charts showing the light decay will be useful.

Worst case; Do you think they'll replace twice?

New "tone" huh ?:)

Ted, I understand where your coming from. I doubt I would have the nerve just jumping in and doing whatever it is you do on a regular basis without plenty of reserve.

By the way, your post in the other forum is close but wrong (think "camera").
Those of us directly involved are restraining for the time being. :)

Originally posted by JimmyR
New "tone" huh ?:)

Ted, I understand where your coming from. I doubt I would have the nerve just jumping in and doing whatever it is you do on a regular basis without plenty of reserve.

By the way, your post in the other forum is close but wrong (think "camera").
Those of us directly involved are restraining for the time being. :)

No restraint necessary - have I misunderstood what Ohlson is asking?
My understanding is that he is asking when the Iris *itself* becomes visible on screen.
I also doubt it would clip in the video sense other than at the black clip point - 7.5 or 0. As to whether those limited lumens are of any use - that's another question.

I push buttons attached to video thingies that I wouldn't go near with the legendary pole. I just try to aim the engineering techs in the right direction - sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. I just blame someone else. ;)

ted

Originally posted by JimmyR

New "tone" huh ?:)

Not really. I am simply pleased for Ted that he's got what he wanted, just as I would be for any consumer who gained a satisfactiory outcome with their PTAE-700.

I'd like to think that the 'negative' discussions here at AVS have contributed to Ted's success.

And for better or worse - facilitating public debate here about the legitimate faults of this projector may mean a successful outcome for all owners.

And that is my agenda.

Originally posted by tvted
:D

Its not the juice or the light, its the nuts and bolts - you need to be an auto mechanic.
Alas I lack courage, unlike your Nordic self.

ted

In fact i got educated as a auto mechanic, but got to be a salesman instead. Geee i wonder why? :)

I got no courage at all, just stupid and courious i guess. I have heard that canadians think we nordic people is lazy and useless workers. And canadians is very effective thrustful people. Is that a fact ted?

Have sombody heard about the brand SOMFY here. If so i got a telis 1 remote here, and if i got a somfy motor i could put that into my screen tube, and then i would have a remote controlled screen. As i work for Hunter Douglas we use Somfy in all our luxaflex sunshading products. And it might fit my screen, i just don't know for sure yet.

ted did they do anything to your PJ other than replace the bulb?

did i just not read far enough back?

and what about this guy who reset his lamp hours and got a brighter picture? how come people aren't talking more about that? was that not for real? why the heck would the lamp meter make any difference in brightness, perceived or otherwise?

Originally posted by billymac
ted did they do anything to your PJ other than replace the bulb?

did i just not read far enough back?

and what about this guy who reset his lamp hours and got a brighter picture? how come people aren't talking more about that? was that not for real? why the heck would the lamp meter make any difference in brightness, perceived or otherwise?

Had firmware upgraded as well.
Tried RESET - no work, but I also never had flickering, simply lumens loss greater than 50% over about 300 hrs. I don't believe anyone else noted that great a loss over such a short period of time. I certainly wasn't expecting more than about 30%.

As to RESET - frankly I've *no* real idea why that would work. I assume the clock is polling the bulb or at least the bulb control circuitry, but I doubt they are interacting.
The bulb and the IRIS/GAMMA setup is also linked from what I can garner from their brochures - that could be part of the loop.
Dunno.

ted

Well don't ask me how or why, but when I went into the reset (subsequent to turning the iris on/off repeatedly) and hilighted it and then escaped via menu, the flickering stopped, the brightness returned and all has been fine since (100 hrs plus).

Maybe a coincidence?

PF

so you mean you didn't actually reset it? maybe you frightened it! :)

No, no reset.

I scared the daylights out of it!!!

PF

Originally posted by pinkfreud55
No, no reset.

I scared the daylights out of it!!!

PF

Hey,
Cold Guy!

You ever check your PM box?
I thought we had something going. :eek: :eek:

The darn words have gone stale. ;)

Sniff.
ted

just so i'm clear you got to the part where it says in red "lamp reset - power off" and then you hit the menu button to escape right?

FYI,

My AE700 had this weird problem with when you turned the PC input on it had these weird red lines scanning randomly up and down the screen, (it wasnt the PC, tried different PC's with the same thing occuring) and it had this green dot, that didnt seem to be dust (because the dust you could focus, this you couldnt) anyway, took it back and Panasonic replaced it with a brand newie... cos it wasnt 21 days old... the new one is excellent!!! doesnt have that problem... and no green blob/dot either!!! also ... i've found with my own personal experience... VB/Flicker dissapears after the first 30mins of the PJ being on... and thats the same on both the AE700's i've had... dont adjust it when you first turn on as it'll cause it to flicker once it warms up... basicly i cant hardly notice the VB for the first 30mins anways ... i know it's there, but it;s not outstanding enough to detract from the TV/Movie im watching... and after 30mins it dissapears completely anyway!

Regards,

SiriX....

Hello: Following the instructions of homecinema-fr I have updated the firmware of my panasonic AE700 from version 1.03 to the 1.07 without problem. The cable-interface I have obtained it mounted in kit, that is the one that is used to update the decoders of satellite SIMBA. It is only necessary to make modifications to put a Db-15 connector to him (VGA) and to feed it with a 4,5 V battery. Is useful if you have the projector connected by HDMI, because it eliminates the white flashes. You run a great risk, but I can guarantee that it works. Associate a photo of the modifications of the interface.

Originally posted by pacocas
Hello: Following the instructions of homecinema-fr I have updated the firmware of my panasonic AE700 from version 1.03 to the 1.07 without problem. The cable-interface I have obtained it mounted in kit, that is the one that is used to update the decoders of satellite SIMBA. It is only necessary to make modifications to put a Db-15 connector to him (VGA) and to feed it with a 4,5 V battery. Is useful if you have the projector connected by HDMI, because it eliminates the white flashes. You run a great risk, but I can guarantee that it works. Associate a photo of the modifications of the interface.

Thanks pacocas. I have been searching for this information. The link I found is:

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29774777&start=45&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

It shows a schematic for the cable in the form of a jpg inline. Poster Blade also has links to the firmware and the software you need to do the deed. The password he has posted for the firmware is "firmware" without the quotes. He also has the entire procedure written up. A babelfish translation is marginally decipherable. I don't speak french, but I was able to get my hands on all of the info in a matter of about 30 minutes. If I can do it, anyone can.

Have fun,

Tony

Edit:

One of these:

http://www.awce.com/rs1.htm

and a DB15 connector and a 5 volt power brick should just about do it.

Question for everyone, i was comparing my Superbit version of Godzilla - Region 2 with the Region 1 non-superbit version, the non-superbit version kept on cutting out so i investigated further and found in the Panasonics secret menu ( self check ) that it was displaying the message no-sync, now what would happen is the picture onscreen went blank for about 4 seconds then would return for about 4 seconds then go blank again for 4 etc etc, when i checked the Region 2 Superbit version it was fine and played perfectly as did other discs i checked ( was concerned my component cable was the cause but i'm now ruling that out ) is there certain pulse code type signals written onto dvd discs ( such as progressive and interlace signals to tell a projector what signal to receive ) is it possible certain discs are poorly encoded with these signals which results in this problem and if i have others in my collection and this happens again what can i do to cure the problem ?

I have a Toshiba dvd player and i let the projector scale everything, i use an interlaced signal and this is the first time i have seen this problem ( fingers crossed it'll be the last )

Pssst Collateral looks absolutely stunning on this projector ( watched it tonight )

To put the schematic from the french web site into words:

Pin 12 of the VGA connector on the panny is the RS232 output pin. In other words it is TXD on the projector.

Pin 15 of the VGA connector on the panny is the RS232 input pin. In other words it is the RXD on the projector.

Pin 5 of the VGA connector is ground.

The panny signals are TTL levels and cannot be directly connected to the RS232 TXD/RXD pins on a PC. The MAX232 chip or equivalent translator chip must be used to shift the signal levels as needed.

To use the VGA connector for RS232 you must go into the AE700 "super secret" menu and set the RS232 to use the DB connector.

A suggestion:

It is not known, I believe, whether the AE700 "TTL" is 3.3 volt or 5 volt. The french guys seem to have gotten away with using 5 volt levels. If the panny is actually 3.3 volt, this could be hard on interface buffers (read possible damage). I would suggest putting 150 ohms in series with the TTL RXD and TXD signals to play it safe. No guarantees. I'm just thinking out loud here.

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
Question for everyone, i was comparing my Superbit version of Godzilla - Region 2 with the Region 1 non-superbit version, the non-superbit version kept on cutting out so i investigated further and found in the Panasonics secret menu ( self check ) that it was displaying the message no-sync, now what would happen is the picture onscreen went blank for about 4 seconds then would return for about 4 seconds then go blank again for 4 etc etc, when i checked the Region 2 Superbit version it was fine and played perfectly as did other discs i checked ( was concerned my component cable was the cause but i'm now ruling that out ) is there certain pulse code type signals written onto dvd discs ( such as progressive and interlace signals to tell a projector what signal to receive ) is it possible certain discs are poorly encoded with these signals which results in this problem and if i have others in my collection and this happens again what can i do to cure the problem ?

I have a Toshiba dvd player and i let the projector scale everything, i use an interlaced signal and this is the first time i have seen this problem ( fingers crossed it'll be the last )

Pssst Collateral looks absolutely stunning on this projector ( watched it tonight )

Region 1 is NTSC Region 2 is PAL.
They each have different frame rates (synch) and line output.

Is your player capable of playing both region discs?

For some background see http://hometheaterinfo.com/dvd3.htm
I would think this is a *player* issue as the 700 is capable of syncing to either frame rate as outlined on Page 59 of the user manual.

ted

There appear to be two different downloads linked in the french forum. One contains the firmware and a separate executable for uploading it to the projector. This is contained in a file called:

FirmwarePTAE700-Password-firmware.zip

That file contains these files:

AE700_107.mot (the 1.07 firmware)
UpdateFirmwareAE700.exe (an uploader program)

The uploader is not the one described in the service manual. When you run it the title bar says LC-80 Software Update Program. Although this probably works fine, it does not give you the opportunity to download your current firmware from the PJ like the package described in the service manual does. No problem. The french site also links this file:

Service pt_ae700s.zip

This one seems to be the same package described in the service manual. The graphics are a little funky on my XP system and you have to double click in the text box to get the buttons to appear, but it seems to be functional. It has the ability to upload/download the color correction, the firmware (called MICOM), and the gamma correction stuff to/from the pj.

It turns out that I have a max232 board that I needed for a tape drive. I am considering soldering a couple of wires to it and giving it a spin. Knowing me, I will do just that after agonizing about it for a while. I'm just worried about providing my wife with another opportunity for long-term heckling. I really hate that...

Tony

Originally posted by canthony15

This one seems to be the same package described in the service manual. The graphics are a little funky on my XP system and you have to double click in the text box to get the buttons to appear, but it seems to be functional. It has the ability to upload/download the color correction, the firmware (called MICOM), and the gamma correction stuff to/from the pj.
Got me interested - save me some reading and tell me about the above software. Is this comparable to the Sony stuff that allows for external Gamma control and Colour Management of the HS51?

I'm just worried about providing my wife with another opportunity for long-term heckling. I really hate that...
:D :D
Tony

ted

Isn't there a Russian website that I can download software from and upload to my Panny?
It's gotta be easy in Russian. :)

This just sounds like sheer lunacy.

Originally posted by romanesq
Isn't there a Russian website that I can download software from and upload to my Panny?
It's gotta be easy in Russian. :)

This just sounds like sheer lunacy.

According to some we were lunatics for buying this box in the first place.
So....

What's your point? :D

ted

This software came bundled with the Service Manual. I deliberately didn't make it available as I didn't want to be target practice for members who stuffed it up.

Just to make things clear: I am NOT advocating anyone starts mucking around with firmware uploads. This is NOT an Aussie Bob project. Are there any other ways to put this?

It's just revision 1.07 that's available. You don't need it except under special circumstances. Get Panasonic to do it. Look out behind you!

DON'T DO IT!

I don't understand why anyone would want to take the chance and do the firmware upgrade themselves. Panasonic will do it for no charge in the US. All you have to pay is for one way shipping. Since all projectors are still under warranty it seems crazy to take this chance. Thanks Aussie Bob for not posting this firmware. I can understanding flashing the bios on a computer or DVD player but to do this with out the proper tools and voiding the warranty of a $2000 projector seems really stupid.

Originally posted by tvted
Region 1 is NTSC Region 2 is PAL.
They each have different frame rates (synch) and line output.

Is your player capable of playing both region discs?

ted

Hi there thanks for advice but i'm not a novice when it comes to dvd region playback and i have a glossary on my website detailing the difference in frame rates etc etc, my dvd player was bought with multi region in mind and i buy from around the world including asia, australia and america as well as europe, region 2 can also be NTSC ( Japan )

I was specifically asking about this disc because it was losing synch which suggests an anomaly with the disc and was wondering if anyone knew anything regarding it or if anyone has this particular disc or has spotted this problem before.

Thks anyways.

It is fair to question the sanity of anyone who would download firmware from the web, cobble together an interface, hang it on a 2000 dollar projector and upload it. OK. That is part of MY hobby. What about buying 300 dollar color meters to get better blacks? Or shopping for fabric for your custom theater seats? Or putting greek columns up in your basement to get that real theater effect? How about selling your house so that you can get another one more suited to you home theater hobby? hey how about a 20 thousand dollar projector? A few years ago, when the dollar was worth more, we gladly hacked our 2000 dollar PCs. It was FUN!

Now, for those who need this sort of thing, I DO NOT recommend that anyone take on the task of uploading their own firmware. I also discourage hang gliding and rock climbing and anything else that could cause injury to you or your projector. Play wisely.

And NO I'm not angry. ;)

I do not recommend to update firmware. I only say that I have done it without problems. This is a forum to fit the projector and to expose ideas and tricks. On the other hand, the interface takes a MAX232 and I have fed it with a 4,5 V battery. The Adjustment tool program serves to verify that the cable works correctly (there is no risk in it) and download the configuration files. We do not have program to make backup of the old firmware, but I am working in jtag to make direct copy of eprom, never we know if someday it is possible to be corrupted...

hi all. i'm in melbourne, australia. i put my ae700 into the local panasonic dealer for 1.07 firmware upgrade. they were hopeless. they had my projector for over 1 month and still didn't do anything. kept making excuses. i finally go it back yesterday (same 1.05 firmware) with an excuse that i needed it that night. out of frustration, i built the cable, and flashed the firmware myself. all is now fine. no danger. there is the test software to check if the cable works. the service program. test to see if it can read the settings from the projector. the flash itself only took 3 minutes. parts were a few dollars. most expensive was the MAX232 chip (AUD$6.25). all parts from dick smith electronics. i did the whole thing the night i got the projector back from the shop. easy. ready for the next firmware upgrade now!

Originally posted by pacocas
The Adjustment tool program serves to verify that the cable works correctly (there is no risk in it) and download the configuration files. We do not have program to make backup of the old firmware, but I am working in jtag to make direct copy of eprom, never we know if someday it is possible to be corrupted...

I was assuming that the service program "micom data" transmission/reception was the same as a firmware upload/download. The service manual describes it as for "microcomputer data". Since you say you have no program for downloading the old firmware, I must be wrong. I wonder what "microcomputer data" is then?

Is there a JTAG connector on the main board?

Originally posted by tvted
Got me interested - save me some reading and tell me about the above software. Is this comparable to the Sony stuff that allows for external Gamma control and Colour Management of the HS51?


ted

I am not familiar with the Sony machines so I couldn't compare them. All the service program provides is a way to upload and download four kinds of configuration files. I do not know where the contents of these files comes from. The files are:

micom data - manual says this is "microcomputer data". I was guessing firmware but it appears I was wrong.

gamma data

Uniformity data

Color Management data

There is also an "adjustment menu". This provides buttons for Flicker adjustment, RGB input level, and a Fan Confirm. It appears that the input level button initiates a self-calibration assuming that a "standard" input pattern is being present from an RGB signal generator. There are also several "grayed out" buttons. One for "Waveform Adjustment" and two more under the input level adjustment for YPbPr and YCbCr. There is an INI file with the tool that has entries for all of these buttons. The grayed out ones are set to zero. The flicker adjustment appears to be a GUI based version of what is already available via the service menu in the PJ.

It doesn't sound like what the Sony has at all unless you had access to the tools that create the configuration files in the first place.

Tony,
Thanks.

One of the things that attracte me to the Sony was the software that came with the unit allowing for external gamma tweaking and table building as well as Colour Control.

I'm an unreconstructed knob twiddler ;) and gamma hacking (did I say that? :eek: pun intended) is an interest of mine.

Too bad.
I wanted another reason to hook my PC to this thing.

ted

Ted,

I got my ham license when I was 13. I let my extra class expire when I was 35. In those years I twiddled many knobs, mostly connected to radio equipment. Some of it I built myself. Some I bought. Some were kits. I also built some amplifiers, tube as well as solid state. Now I just play with this home theater stuff. Once the soldering and wiring gets in your blood you have no choice but to twiddle. They pay me to do it too.

My upgrade went fine.

Originally posted by canthony15
I was assuming that the service program "micom data" transmission/reception was the same as a firmware upload/download. The service manual describes it as for "microcomputer data". Since you say you have no program for downloading the old firmware, I must be wrong. I wonder what "microcomputer data" is then?

Is there a JTAG connector on the main board?

The microcomputer data is a file of 16 K, whereas firmware is 864k. I think that these files, that they keep the configuration from color, uniformity and gamma, could serve to interchange different configurations or calibrations from the projector. When you update firmware your personal adjustments for each source do not change. I'm investigating the JTAG in the service manual.

Originally posted by tvted
According to some we were lunatics for buying this box in the first place.
So....

What's your point? :D

ted

I think some of the other folks have clarified that and I agree with them wholeheartedly.

As I was one of the first people to buy this projector when it came out, I would say that's a far cry from this self installed firmware upgrade and in French no less. :eek:

I had a play with a Barco DP100 yesterday. This is a serious cinema projector. Will fill a screen 25 metres wide at 2048 x 1080 pixels. Was used at Cannes for the premiere presentation of Revenge Of The Sith. Weighs several hundred pounds. 3,000 or 6,000 watt lamp options. Needs its own 3-phase power. 2000:1 contrast (genuine). Costs a fortune. Even the lenses cost around $8k US each. Fully remot econtrollable. Real color matching controls. The one I played with had a 2x neutral density filter on the front as its picture was too bright for the 8 metre screen they were using it with (it ws in a post-production facility). You also need a guy in a white lab coat to maintain it. 3-chip DLP. Just the ballast looks like an electricity substation and has to be deployed and cooled separately, it's so big.

What a sensational picture! As cinematic, rich, detailed and contrasty as you could ever ask for (well, that's its job).

Now, if only they could get it under $2k US, and cut back on the power consumption, I'd consider buying one.

lmfao, 3-phase power.....buwwahhaahhaaa too funny

I WANT ONE!!!

What piece of technology was the source of the picture, Aussie Bob? And how does it connect to the Barco?

The Barco had its own server delivering 2048 x 1080 pixels to it... wait for it... uncompressed. No MPEG or JPEG, no nothing: just pure unadulterated goodness.

Next door in the reverse-flow air conditioned, humidity-regulated operations room was the telecine. A very art-deco-looking piece of kit, it can scan at the abovementioned resolution in real time and again without compression. It had a white marble table top that must have weighed three hundred pounds (for stability). A real work of art.

The whole studio is geared for film mastering. I don't mean DVD mastering. I mean exhibition, cinema quality film mastering and color timing. The Barco itself has been tweaked for as near to perfect color rendition as is possible with gear costing in excess of $50,000 dollars, just for the testing phase (which is performed once per week). They never turn it off, because last time they did all the traffic lights in the area went on the blink. Just kidding on the last one, but they DO never turn it off. $2,000 Australian a pop for lamps, they go through quite a few.

The bio-box (projection room) had two 8 inch foil air-conditioning type conduits to take the heat away from the head. As I said before, the ballast transformer had its own housing on the floor. When they were installing the Beast, it took five beefy guys to lift the head up to its position behind the projection window. My mate (the engineer at this facility) told me someone started laughing when they had it up above their heads. It was one of those moments you hadda be there, he told me. In the end it was placed on its motorized rail before they all lost it and dropped the thing.

As I said, if they could get the size down a bit and swap that 3000 watt lamp (that's the "little one") for, say, a 250 watt lamp, incorporate the ballast into the main head, shrink it down by about a factor of five in size and solve the weight problem and solve the money problem.... nah... those lamps are WAY too expensive.

I might say this, though: the contrast ratio was actually - to my mind - a little too much, especially when we put a DVD on. I guess this means that DVDs have a little bit too much bias put into the blacks for genuine cinema release. The stuff coming of their hard-drives was much more film-like and detail-rich. The final picture was several degree better than our poor little AE700s, but thinking about it, the AE700 doesn't do such a bad job in the "cinematic" quality stakes. 2000:1 is about double what the SMPTE requires for cine film projection. Our little gizmos aren't as bad as some might think. On the other hand, considering what many of you put up with using those 81EF filters that reduce brightnes by about half, it was quite invigorating to see such excellent pictures up there on the screen that were also so damn bright.

A couple of other points.

Focusing the lens was abominable. You had to use a mouse to do it and the servo motors kept over-shooting. There's nothing like a real hands-on focusing ring (as per the AE700) for that fine focus with delicate manual feedback (I really mean it!).

Operating the thing was like flying a 747. Quite complicated, with lots of menus and set-up screens to be negotiated when changing formats.

It did not appear to have its own scaler, so there was an X-thousand dollar scaler attached. Nothing like anyone here's ever used. It had its own rack, six feet high.

What you're looking at is 2.2 megapixels of data on-screen at any one time, whereas our AE700s have 921k pixels. That's a difference in image definition of about 2.4:1. But the real comparison is between DVD format and high-def cinema format. That works out at about from 5.3 to 5.5 to one (depending on PAL or NTSC encoding). Add in the extra quality and smoothness, and brightness, and it's a different experience altogether.

When 1960 x 1080 becomes routinely available for HT purposes (and I think Blu-Ray is going to do this? Am I right?) and we can get our hands on projectors with this resolution, there'll be little difference between the Panasonic AE-2000 and the BArco, at least in image definition terms. I expect this turn of events to arrive in about three years, myself.

Frankly, I thought the Barco was overkill for such a small screen (the 2x ND filters attest to that in themselves), but I don't know what else is available that would do the job more efficiently, less expensively, but with the same quality. a 2x ND filter means that a 750 watt lamp would suffice for the same illumination, which would cut down on the baggage that comes with the unit, and its ongoing maintenance costs.

The film we watched is a local production, but they have done some of the work for LOTR and the Star Wars franchise on it (as they're made here in Sydney, or just across the pond in New Zealand).

All in all quite a fascinating visit, but when it comes down to it, I think I can wait that three years or so for one that fits on my little projector stand in the living room.... and with a slightly quieter fan, one that doesn't sound like you're sitting in a Sherman tank with your ear against the exhaust pipe. Which reminds me: to get rid of the noise they spent another $50,000 in soundproofing. You'd have to add that in if you're considering buying one.

Just sayin'...

Is anyone here using a Da-Lite high power screen with the filter? I'm considering switching from my hccv screen. I'm having a sample sent out, but I just wanted to see if anyone here made a similar switch.

Downloaded the manual ok. Thanks Aussie Bob and bapenguin. I'm interested in browsing through the schematic diagrams, but, are they there? I've found where they seem to be, but nothing happens when the icons are clicked on. Am I missing something obvious?

Call me stupid, but I can't find the link to download :(
lifeisfuneh@hotmail.com

Call me stupid, but I can't find the link to download :(
lifeisfuneh@hotmail.com

It's in Post #1897.

Thanks ! :)

hey so here's a hypothetical

i have this friend you see, and he has an AE700 that's dimmed quite a bit, since the 100 hour mark. he's got nearly 800 hours on it now. pretty darn dim. it flickers too. started at about 400 horus. the iris makes quite a bit of noise too and he wants to send it in to panasonic. he's kicking himself for not calling panasonic before the 500 hour mark because then he may have gotten a new bulb. so here's his dilema. should he stick a new bulb in there? should he reset the lamp timer? should he call panasonic now? or after one or both of the ideas previous? is there any possible way in hell panasonic will give a new bulb if my friend sent it in? he needs some advice on how to proceed.

Dude, what are you waiting for? Tell that guy to reset the lamp. Cross your fingers and hope for the best cuz if it works like it did for me, he'll be happy. :p

Aussie B!
Thanks for relating that experience with the Barco. I don't think many of us will get the chance to see that stuff up close.

I saw a Barco setup for Episode III at a local theatre (but not upclose)

Contrast is great.. but it is still not inky black :) then again, neither was the film transfer haha.

I could have sworn I saw what looked like VB too... but maybe that was some artefact of the digital transfer.

hey so here's a hypothetical

i have this friend you see, and he has an AE700 that's dimmed quite a bit, since the 100 hour mark. he's got nearly 800 hours on it now. pretty darn dim. it flickers too. started at about 400 horus. the iris makes quite a bit of noise too and he wants to send it in to panasonic. he's kicking himself for not calling panasonic before the 500 hour mark because then he may have gotten a new bulb. so here's his dilema. should he stick a new bulb in there? should he reset the lamp timer? should he call panasonic now? or after one or both of the ideas previous? is there any possible way in hell panasonic will give a new bulb if my friend sent it in? he needs some advice on how to proceed.

He should call Panasonic first. He should explain how things have progressed and beg for mercy. The iris thing is not right anyway. Panasonic should fix the iris and possibly replace the bulb. Maybe prorated. If not, you have to eat the cost of the bulb which was one of the other options anyway. Oh, and they will reset the timer for you so you don't have to :). If you reset the timer yourself, I think they lose track of how many hours are really on your bulb. They can tell you reset it, but I don't think they can tell what the hours were before you did it. This can make it look like you are trying to hide something. ( I don't remember if the service timers include total power on hours since the unit was manufactured.)

If you reset it and the lamp gets brighter, you still have the crappy iris to deal with. It's probably not going to cure itself.

Hi all!

So far my company have performed around 300 upgrades from firmware 1.03 and 1.05 to 1.07. Because I don't own Panny700, could anyone please give some details of where did they noticed any performance improvement after the upgrade.

Many thanks in forward :)

This week end I hit 140hr mark on the AE700 I have noticed for a while that the projector has been making a clicking noise and for the first time ever, actually 3 times Saturday alone, turned off with the lamp warning light flashing. After turning it on and doing a self check by the Lamp info line it states NG. Powering it off and letting it sit for a bit brings it to Lamp Ok in red then eventually it goes green. I set my lamp to high around the 80 hr mark to get little more brightness, not that I really noticed much of a change between low and high (13.5ft away from screen) I have cleaned the filter and being in the basement the room doesn’t get hot so not to sure what is causing this. I guess I will have to contact Panasonic today and see what they say. Problem happens every 1hr 20 minutes when lamp is set to high, but when one changes it to low no issues.

billymac,

I'm sure I've been saying it myself for awhile now. I think your friend should take what canthony15 says to heart. His assessment is dead on in my view.

The Iris is at the very least not operating correctly. It is tied to the bulb and Gamma as the means by which the 700 achieves good CR.

From a Panasonic Brochure

A new Dynamic Iris optical system incorporates AI technology to control the light volume and gamma curve in real time. Gamma correction is possible in every single scene. In conjunction with lamp control, the world’s first Iris with scene-tracking capability delivers a dynamic contrast of 2,000:1, so the picture is sharp and clear even in a well-lit room. Superb brightness is achieved at the same time, broadening the dynamic range. The dynamic gamma is interlocked with the light source, so scene changes are smooth and natural, and contribute to sufficient brightness in dark scenes. The AI can detect as many as 3,000,000,000 combinations of scenes by utilizing histogram analysis. An amazing response speed is achieved by interlocking it with the light source rather than the lens


"In conjunction with lamp control" says that the lamp and Iris are intimately coupled. Mouth breathing hype aside, the fact that they are part of the same feedback loop is what is important. At the very least Panasonic owes you a fix on that - the bulb will be a secondary issue.

I agree with Anthony - your "friend" is procrastinating and he shouldn't be.

ted

This week end I hit 140hr mark on the AE700 I have noticed for a while that the projector has been making a clicking noise and for the first time ever, actually 3 times Saturday alone, turned off with the lamp warning light flashing. After turning it on and doing a self check by the Lamp info line it states NG. Powering it off and letting it sit for a bit brings it to Lamp Ok in red then eventually it goes green. I set my lamp to high around the 80 hr mark to get little more brightness, not that I really noticed much of a change between low and high (13.5ft away from screen) I have cleaned the filter and being in the basement the room doesn’t get hot so not to sure what is causing this. I guess I will have to contact Panasonic today and see what they say. Problem happens every 1hr 20 minutes when lamp is set to high, but when one changes it to low no issues.

Does the "clicking" sound like the Iris or the Ballast board? The Iris is the distinctive sound that happens when the unit turns on and goes through its calibration procedure, the ballast likely sounds like a "chattering" sound.

I would bring it up with Panasonic ASAP - the flickering bulb and clicking are common signs with what is happening to your 700.

ted

Hi all!

So far my company have performed around 300 upgrades from firmware 1.03 and 1.05 to 1.07. Because I don't own Panny700, could anyone please give some details of where did they noticed any performance improvement after the upgrade.

Many thanks in forward :)

Other that the HDMI issue - none.
From what I've read and been told by Pansonic Canada, anything beyond the HDMI issues are for PAL content.

ted

I could be wrong (won't be the first time) but I think there are two "sets" of firmware. One of them is for the iris. At least that is what I thought I read on the cine-french site. I was going to do my own firmware update from 1.03 to 1.07, but after reading about the iris firmware (that you can not update yourself), I decided to hold off a bit. I do get an occasional 'click' during transitions from a bright scene to a dark (or vice versa) but I think that is just normal operation. If you are hearing a lot of clicking and clanking, it is probably something else entirely.

Well, well, my first post to the "New Look" AVS Forum!

The bulb problem sounds a little bit like what happened to my projector at the 700 hour mark, minus the clicking sounds and the "NG". The basic thing is this: I got mine to Panasonic's workshop and after nearly three week's delay got a new, warranty bulb (as the old one had melted around one of the wire inlets). I saw the old one, so there ws no switcheroo done. I received a genuine replacement.

Although the two situations are sort-of similar, they may be unrelated technically, but here's some procedural advice.

If you reset your bulb hours you risk being arrested for Grand-Theft/Warranty. It would be hard for Panasonic to ignore the"RESET" statistics message glaring out from the SELF CHECK menu page. It may work, but if it doesn't, you could be in trouble.

Better to take it to the service depot and ask them to have a look at it. Get them to verify that the lamp is under-performing and to try the reset. If that works it's been done in a legal shop and you have a record of what's been happening. If it happens again soon, you can then claim the lamp's faulty.

If the lamp stays dim, then the lamp needs replacing and you can argue the toss with them, based on whether the lamp could be said to be suffering from "faulty manufacture" (as mine was deemed to have been), and hence replaced free of charge.

If they say no, and you think they really mean it (by this I mean you've exhausted all roads of appeal to higher-up executive types), get the projector back, source a lamp from a discount house and save some money by not allowing them to charge you full freight for labor, plus full mark-up for the lamp. If they try to charge you for the assessment, chuckle as you walk out with the projector under your arm. It's unlikely they'd call the cops on this one.

That was my plan. Thankfully, I didn't have to go through with it as they replaced the lamp for nix.

As to the Barco: if we wait for a couple of years I'm of the firm belief that HT technology will catch up some and enable us to put as sharp and clean a picture on our small screens as the Barco can throw up onto a big one. That will also be the time when earnest articles are being written about "the death of the cinema complex".

(We might even be able to pick up a Barco cheap a couple of years after that).

No, its blacks were not perfect, but they were close to (I'd say) three or four times blacker than the blacks out of an AE700. They were blacker than the SMPTE specification for blackness from projected film (this wasn't an impression, it had been measured at the cinema). In fact I thought they were a little too black off DVD. The full resolution film they ran off the server had less dense blacks, looked more "film like".

After all is said and done though, the Barco's raw resolution is somewhat less than a cheap digital camera phone.

"After all is said and done though, the Barco's raw resolution is somewhat less than a cheap digital camera phone."
er...... duh....
Ok, I'm not following you....

More and more I hear and read about this PJ I start to think it is a good thing that Panasonic decided not to price it very high. Now I can see why. I'm quite sure that Blownpixel had quite a few good points a while ago. Maybe Panasonic should really do a decent thing and do a world-wide recall and fix this lemon once for all. I'm very glad that I don't own one... sorry guys.

Cheers

It appears that there is a wide range of views about the AE700. I am so happy with mine that I don't want to part with it long enough to get a firmware update from 1.3 to 1.7, yet there are people that don't even own one that are calling for a world wide recall. How funny is that?

What is really even more odd is if you follow the posts of some of these people (by clicking on their profiles) you will find they have completely changed their opinions of the projector.

Backpakva, I understand where you're coming from and yes you're rihgt I don't own this PJ but unfortunately I have to deal with more and more of unhappy customers on daily bases, so I think I have every reason to express my worries. There just seems to be a little bit too many problems with this PJ than usual. There are othere PJ's that are even cheaper than this one with much less problems (eg. Sanyo, Toshiba, Hitachi, Sharp...). I'm not so sure about recomending this one any more... sorry.

Cheers :confused:

Backpakva, I understand where you're coming from and yes you're rihgt I don't own this PJ but unfortunately I have to deal with more and more of unhappy customers on daily bases, so I think I have every reason to express my worries. There just seems to be a little bit too many problems with this PJ than usual. There are othere PJ's that are even cheaper than this one with much less problems (eg. Sanyo, Toshiba, Hitachi, Sharp...). I'm not so sure about recomending this one any more... sorry.

Cheers :confused:

You have seen many more of these units than I ever will (as I have only seen mine). I also read the other projector posts, and they all seem to have issues of one kind or another. Perhaps the newer builds are not as reliable as the first run. I got mine shortly after they arrived in the US (early Nov). Dealing with unhappy customers is not an easy task, so I do not envy you. I am hopeful that mine keeps chugging along and I don't change my mind as well.

What are your customers complaining about the most?
Is it the lamp life or brightness (mine only has 275 hrs)?
Vertical Banding? ( I used your paper trick and reduced mine to barely noticeable).
Pixel alignment? ( I am off about 1 pixel on the blue)
Color uniformity across the screen? (I got lucky on that one and have none)
Flickering? (mine went away on its own after 50 hours)
Contrast or black levels? ( Light control and EF81 filter seemed to improve mine)
Other issues? Pixel cropping? Unsharp?

I talked to Panasonic rep and will be bringing my projector in for a look see, he told me over the phone it sounded like a defective lamp. They are only 40 minutes away, I'll do a drive by. Yes the clicking noise is like what you hear when you first turn on the projector (warming up)

This being my first projector, still love'n it, so much I treated her to a filter.

I talked to Panasonic rep and will be bringing my projector in for a look see, he told me over the phone it sounded like a defective lamp. They are only 40 minutes away, I'll do a drive by. Yes the clicking noise is like what you hear when you first turn on the projector (warming up)

This being my first projector, still love'n it, so much I treated her to a filter.

Hopefully it is something as simple as a defective bulb. It seems to be an issue with a lot of other projectors as well. Lamps must be difficult to manufacture for some reason. One would think that they would have this process a bit tighter by now, especially for the amount that they cost! I still can't figure that one out. Either they are ripping us off with $300-$400 bucks a pop, or the yields are so low that they are actually that expensive to manufacture. I was counting on buying a new projector once the 3000 hr lamp expired. It sounds like the odds of getting that sort of life out of a lamp might just be wishful thinking on my part ( and over-promising on theirs)

I hope I don't snake bite myself by saying this but so far my AE700 has been as reliable as an anvil. Mine was among the first received in the US and was delivered to me on Oct. 12 2004. I did encounter white flashes on the HDMI input but the firmware upgrade to 1.07 at Hartland has cured that. With over 750 hours in High Lamp mode I'm not experiencing any flickering and overall brightness still seems fine. I'm using a Carada 118" Brilliant White Screen. I've experimented with Steve Smallcome's recomended settings as well as another gentleman's (Tom Hoffman I believe "colorfax and me") and have setteled on the latter for now. The settings are Normal -2, with minor bias and gain adjustments per Hoffman's post, and contrast, brightness, color, and tint set using Avia. While no projector is perfect, the overall number of complaints regarding reliability issues seems fairly small considering this PJ is I believe one of the best selling PJ's currently on the market.

I talked to Panasonic rep and will be bringing my projector in for a look see, he told me over the phone it sounded like a defective lamp. They are only 40 minutes away, I'll do a drive by. Yes the clicking noise is like what you hear when you first turn on the projector (warming up)

This being my first projector, still love'n it, so much I treated her to a filter.

Please be sure they address the Iris issue directly. I am curious as to why there have been comments that seem to link the flickering with the noise. The bulb and iris *are* linked as part of the 700's CR control loop. So I'm curious if one symtom abets the other.

If the issue gets fixed - try and find out what they did, it would help other users who might encounter these issues.

ted

JDEATON
"AE700 Reliability"
My experience has been similar. My screen is small and high gain - vutec silverstar, 92".
Maybe us high gain screen users who don't need high light output are being more nice to our bulbs. Mine seems to be getting better with age, or my tweaking does. I have the 81EF filter and plenty of brightness, and a really nice image with nice depth. I doubt my cr is real huge like some peoples might be, but that's not the real goal.

Anyone out there who currently is using this projector with a Firehawk care to throw out their settings? I'm having a hard time finding a happy medium of what I like so I was hoping to compare it to other people who also own the Firehawk.

I'm using a 100" and no filter for those that may be curious.

I have a Japanese OSD V1.03 AE700.
I just updated the firmware to 1.07 hoping that this would give me English OSD.
Firmware updated, but still Japanese OSD.
Does anyone know how to convert to English - If it is possible. I assume that the firmware must be checking some specific hardware setting such as a jumper on PCB to determine the OSD language.

Anybody mess with converging their panels yet?

Why do my widescreen DVD's look distorted? What I mean by that is the picture is stretched. It almost has the look of a 4:3 pic stretched to a 16:9 picture.

I am using a Denon upscaling DVD player into the HDMI input on the projector. I am running at 1080i. Picture quality is great except for the stretching of the pic.

Is there something that I need to set on the projector to correct this?

I have the same equipment and have no problem.Your DVD player should be set for 16x9 anamorphic and not for 4x3. In the pj mode setup make sure it is HDMI and not PC or YPbPr for component input. The "position" menu should read Aspect 16:9.
I use the 720p output on my Denon as the pj is 720p native and I think that any 1080i input is converted to 720p. So why have the picture go through another downconversion? I have a great picture with this setup! I hope you do too.

Thanks for the advice. I went into the DVD player's menu and saw that it was set to 4:3 letterbox instead of 16:9. I thought that I had set it correctly when I got the player. Anyway, it is fine now. Thanks again.

Please be sure they address the Iris issue directly. I am curious as to why there have been comments that seem to link the flickering with the noise. The bulb and iris *are* linked as part of the 700's CR control loop. So I'm curious if one symtom abets the other.

If the issue gets fixed - try and find out what they did, it would help other users who might encounter these issues.

ted

I went to Panasonic today hoping that I would be dealing with the original tech who helped me out prior (firmware upgrade 1.07) but he got called away. So I explained my projector symptoms again to someone else. 20 minutes later they informed me that they replaced the bulb and reset the projector and handed it back to me. I will let you know if any other problems still exsist.

I am envious of you, nastyboy...being able to hand carry the projector in for service! I would much rather do that than have to box it up and pray that the Fed-Ex man wasn't having a bad day when he picked up my projector. I will continue to hold off on the firmware upgrade until laster this summer. Glad to see you got a new bulb out of the deal, and hopefully you won't have any other issues with the AE700. Once you get it all set up and working properly, it is hard to even contemplate giving it up for even a week.

Is it true that the AVIA black level test is not correct for the Panny 700 type of projector? Do you need to set the brightness until the darker bar just appears on the screen? If this is true, it might explain why my brightness level is -19 and my contrast is +11.

i took mine in to a local authorized panasonic repair shop.

explained my problems in detail over the phone, in person and in writing.

i had 824 hours on it when i brought it in, so i'm going to have to appeal the local panasonic rep for a new bulb (which i doubt will happen)

i should have brought it in sooner sure, but my problems started at 100 hours. hopefully, i'll get a chance to talk to the rep. especially if they aren't going to help me out on the bulb. i was hoping i'd hear back from them today. maybe i'll call.

just a heads-up, i put my X1 up as a temporary tv while my panny is in the shop. you want to laugh? it's as bright as my 700 was when i took it in. that's in 16x9 mode at 15.5 feet back! i knew i wasn't imagining anything with the brightness drop. damn, i should have taken it in at a 100 hours. i'm kicking myself. i hope they help me out on this one.

i hope the sp4805 successor is within my budget and i hope they release it soon.

bakpakva,

I am in the same boat as you are, I dread handling in my pj to those courrier and baggage handlers as my unit works fine except for those ocasionnal white flashes through HDMI. I can imagine it comming back damaged or misaligned. I purchased my unit less than 2 months ago and it has v.103 firmware.As much I love this pj my next purchase will be a brand that can give me service locally. I can't believe that in this internet age I have to ship my pj 500kms away for a simple firmware upgrade!. I would hand carry it to Toronto if I new that they could do it within a few hours. But then, there is the hassle of airport security.... So much for customer service!

Well there is always the option of doing the firmware update ourselves. ;-) I have downloaded the firmware, picked up the max232 chips, and could do it this weekend. The only thing holding me back is the fact that there is also an iris firmware update, which you can not do at home (yet). There is risk in that as well I suppose, as I could end up turning it into a toaster. I doubt that would happen though, as you can test your communications before actually downloading to the projector. Since I don't have the white flash issue, I just keep watching movies and thinking someday I will send it in. My warranty runs out in November, which is plenty of time for yet another update to come out.

I have read through just about everything on the AE700 here and I haven't found a definitive answer to this, so I apologize if I missed it somewhere. I hear the same iris clicking that you hear on power-up whenever there's a quick transition from bright to dark or dark to bright (I can't remember which offhand) scenes. It was particularly bad in a scene in a dark night club with a strobe light - the clicking was in time with the strobe. I replayed the scene after disabling the dynamic iris and the clicking went away. Is this clicking normal with the dynamic iris or should I try to get Panny to service it under warranty?

Also, my bulb has definitely been getting dimmer over time. I have a totally dark environment and it was becoming unwatchable in Natural mode, so I switched to Normal mode this week. I run in low lamp mode because high doesn't really do much, and I wanted to extend the bulb life. Much to my disappointment, the bulb blew yesterday. I only had about 580 hours. I talked to the regional Panny contact today (I'm in Denver) and he stood his ground on the 500 hour / 90 day bulb warranty. He also was "not aware" of any prorating of a replacement bulb. I am left to replace the bulb myself for $350. This unit was shipped late October, lending some credence to the theory that they shipped early units with either shorter life or defective bulbs.

Since I'm getting a new bulb, I'd like to graph its brightness over time. Can anyone recommend a decent light meter?

The only thing holding me back is the fact that there is also an iris firmware update, which you can not do at home (yet).t.

This is the second time I've read this, was that you the first time?
This would be beyond 1.07, correct?

I'm fond of Irises.

Where have you heard of this and how does it affect the Iris?

ted

Since I'm getting a new bulb, I'd like to graph its brightness over time. Can anyone recommend a decent light meter?

Interesting story.
Push them a bit re the 500 hrs - you have been operating in what would be recommended by Panasonic.

As to a meter?
What do you want to do and how much do you wish to spend?

ted

This is the second time I've read this, was that you the first time?
This would be beyond 1.07, correct?

I'm fond of Irises.

Where have you heard of this and how does it affect the Iris?

ted

I found it on the homecinema-fr.com site. If you look at your firmware, you have 3 sets of numbers. They have postulated that these mean: (French Translation)

The R corresponds to the version of the program of the microphone-controller.
A corresponds to the version of the wiring of the programmable circuit Altera Cyclone.
P? I do not know. Perhaps the version of P IC which controls the IRIS.

When you update at home from say R1.05 A1.03 P1.04 , all that updates is the R1.05 to R1.07. There also seems to be a P1.05 out there. I have to look next time I turn my projector on to see what my complete firmware string is.

had to make it an even 2000 replies to this thread
;)