Anyone else noticing the poor quality of the information in the MS Guide? I now realize that I have a 'special' problem with channel mapping here in Kitsap, but setting InHD or KCTS-HD recordings seems to be a VERY hit-or-miss proposition- I set a concert to record from InHD, got a hot air balloon festival; set a Frontline to record from KCTS-HD, got an Independent Lens about Los Angeles.

I heard an earlier whine about MS being at the mercy of the guide content providers, but maybe they need to change data sources or something. I get a schedule from InHD each week by email, the KCTS schedules are on their web site, and TitanTV seems to be able to get it right, so "the truth is out there". MSTV doesn't seem to be real good at getting it. Why?

I imagine that Comcast says who provides the guide. I bet MS is just a vendor like Motorola or the guide data provider.

Here's something else I just noticed about a Comcast signal that's apparently coming into a video store on a Motorola DCT6200 box. On a Sony KV-30HS420, showing a true 1080i channel, the picture has fine-grained noise in the background. It's an annoying sparkle that you usually see on analog channels, yet here it is on an HD picture. This same Sony demonstrator has a good, clean picture on all the other sources that were switched to it. Is it due to having split and amplified the signal for numerous other sets in the store? Is this noise seen commonly with home installations of Comcast HD programs in other regions? How does such noise even get propagated from a digital signal?

In my area, there has been no over-the-air pickup of broadcasts from local stations by Comcast and its predecessors for about 20 years. Since then, they've gotten the feeds by closed circuit or microwave. So, even if the stations are off the air, the cable usually still gets its feeds. During the SuperBowl about 15 or so years ago, CBS covered it and an ice storm knocked out the main power for their local affiliate's transmitter. They still fed a signal to the cable company, but those that used antennas could only stare at the blank channel, hoping it would be restored. A sad thing, to see the anguish of football fans denied their ultimate experience. I, however, had a tall, high-end antenna that could pick up a CBS station from 110 miles distance. I had 25 non-cabled neighbors crowding my front room, many who had never acted so friendly to me.

More answers-

Multiple fav/channel lists - Yup, we're aware of it and the benefits and complexities of doing it.

External storage / ethernet - Please folks, don't waste your time trying to do this. I'm a hacker at heart so I'm not saying this to keep you from discovering something.

On demand saved subscription (i.e. HBO) programs - We're investigating this. This isn't a bug but rather a different interpretation of some config stuff. Stay tuned. Pay movies and free stuff that isn't part of a subscription package should appear in this list as you would expect.

OS/File System - It's not any flavor of windows or NTFS. It's provided by Motorola.

Thanksgiving - Enjoy it! I may be offline for a few days so please read the FEQ before posting.

Originally posted by vidkidd
artshotwell... It's not the signal... It's the hardware.

The Image out of the 6412 looks horrible for all VHF Alanog channels. Basicaly the ones under Channel 100.
Not from where I sit. I see significant artifacts on KOMO & KING and the two Canadian channels, but the satellite feeds look very good to me. There are scattered fuzzy channels, like BBC Amereica (on 162). I do see some degradation via the 6412. Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting Motorola off the hook there.

Keep in mind that PQ in Skagit County may not match that in Mill Valley. We are on a completely different system here. Bellingham, too.

Originally posted by drbenson
Anyone else noticing the poor quality of the information in the MS Guide? I now realize that I have a 'special' problem with channel mapping here in Kitsap, but setting InHD or KCTS-HD recordings seems to be a VERY hit-or-miss proposition- I set a concert to record from InHD, got a hot air balloon festival; set a Frontline to record from KCTS-HD, got an Independent Lens about Los Angeles.

I heard an earlier whine about MS being at the mercy of the guide content providers, but maybe they need to change data sources or something. I get a schedule from InHD each week by email, the KCTS schedules are on their web site, and TitanTV seems to be able to get it right, so "the truth is out there". MSTV doesn't seem to be real good at getting it. Why?
You're saying TitanTV has -different- guide information?

In at least these couple of instances, yes, I'm saying that TitanTV had correct information and the MSTV guide did not. KCTS-DT sometimes seems unable to get correct information to anyone- their own website sometimes gets it wrong. But I sure expected Comcast to have correct info for their exclusive, cable only, get-people-to-switch-from-satellite InHD channels!

Interesting...Every time I've tried to compare...I've always seen the same details. I have noticed KCTS has guide info issues, but they have other problems, too, like squeezing or stretching PBS feeds inappropriately.

Just lucky, I guess. I agree about KCTS' problems, but they're OTA as well, not a Comcast or MSTV issue. They always tell me it's because they don't have enough money.

Originally posted by shannonv
This isn't a bug but rather a different interpretation of some config stuff.
...
Pay movies and free stuff that isn't part of a subscription package should appear in this list as you would expect.

How is that not a bug?

I haven't tried pay movies, but nothing else appears as I would expect. All that shows up is a list of my subscription channels & "VOD" -- but no saved programs listed. Give me an example that you think will work.

I'm pretty sure the guide data comes from Zap2It.com. This is because Zap2It.com calls TV Japan JNG instead of TVJAPAN. This is what the MSTV guide calls it. TV Guide and Titan TV both call it TVJAPAN.

Originally posted by Steve McD
Here's something else I just noticed about a Comcast signal that's apparently coming into a video store on a Motorola DCT6200 box. On a Sony KV-30HS420, showing a true 1080i channel, the picture has fine-grained noise in the background. It's an annoying sparkle that you usually see on analog channels, yet here it is on an HD picture. This same Sony demonstrator has a good, clean picture on all the other sources that were switched to it. Is it due to having split and amplified the signal for numerous other sets in the store? Is this noise seen commonly with home installations of Comcast HD programs in other regions? How does such noise even get propagated from a digital signal? "Sparklies" on digital channels has nothing to do with the cable signal. It's almost always a symptom of a bad (or too-long) DVI cable connecting the box to the tV.

If there were actually a problem with the digital cable feed, you'd probably be seeing large, green "blocks", freezing picture, etc - eg: all MPEG decoding failures.

Motorola doesn't seem to have any information about the DCT6412 on its website. Is it exactly the same as the DCT6200, except for the addition of the DCR?

http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp

Originally posted by Al Shing
I'm pretty sure the guide data comes from Zap2It.com. This is because Zap2It.com calls TV Japan JNG instead of TVJAPAN. This is what the MSTV guide calls it. TV Guide and Titan TV both call it TVJAPAN. MSTV can work with 2 different guide data sources - Zap2it's parent company Tribune Media Services, or FYITV. It's up to the cable provider to pick a data provider - MSTV just formats & displays that data. See MSTV FE data sheet (http://www.microsoft.com/tv/content/Solutions/Foundation/MSTV_Foundation_Main.mspx).

Tribune Media is the big fish - they provide the raw guide data for a majority of interactive guides in the US - including Tivo, Replay, and I believe Comcast. As far as I can tell the new MSTV guide is showing the exact same guide data that the old TV Guide UI showed us - just in a nicer format. As for INHD program errors - that's been a long-running problem I've seen with Comcast before MSTV ever got here. It's almost like they've sometimes have the wrong timezone for this channel - the right shows at the wrong times.

Anyone else notice this annoying trait?

I'm watching a DVR recording. Suddenly the program changes to a live station. (the little lower-screen announcement pops up to tell me some info about the new show). The new show turns out to be something that I've scheduled to record, just kicking off. I'd much prefer it if the DVR just quietly went ahead and recorded it without forcing me to watch it now. Isn't that the whoe point of a DVR?

I haven't seen that. All my recordings have started behind the scenes. But, I haven't been watching one program while recording another program, as a second recording started. That might cause it???

Originally posted by mktgMaven
Anyone else notice this annoying trait?

I'm watching a DVR recording. Suddenly the program changes to a live station. (the little lower-screen announcement pops up to tell me some info about the new show). The new show turns out to be something that I've scheduled to record, just kicking off. I'd much prefer it if the DVR just quietly went ahead and recorded it without forcing me to watch it now. Isn't that the whoe point of a DVR?

Siunds like a reminder has been set for that show.

DVR Playback Hijacked
Anyone else notice this annoying trait?

I'm watching a DVR recording. Suddenly the program changes to a live station. (the little lower-screen announcement pops up to tell me some info about the new show). The new show turns out to be something that I've scheduled to record, just kicking off. I'd much prefer it if the DVR just quietly went ahead and recorded it without forcing me to watch it now. Isn't that the whoe point of a DVR?

I have the exact same annoying issue.

Originally posted by mktgMaven
Anyone else notice this annoying trait?

I'm watching a DVR recording. Suddenly the program changes to a live station. (the little lower-screen announcement pops up to tell me some info about the new show). The new show turns out to be something that I've scheduled to record, just kicking off. I'd much prefer it if the DVR just quietly went ahead and recorded it without forcing me to watch it now. Isn't that the whoe point of a DVR?

I've only seen that when I was watching a live show. The reason it shows up is to allow me to resolve a conflict (which wouldn't exist if I weren't watching the live show). Since watching a recorded program doesn't require use of one of the two tuners, there should be no conflict between it and the scheduled recordings. There is no reminder function, so unless there's a bug which remembers the last live channel you were tuned to, I can't think of a reason -- and that would be a strange one.

My guess is that you were already recording one program while watching the live program. At the time of the hijack a second program was scheduled to begin taping. Since you cannot watch live tv while taping two shows a message on the bottom was asking you to either cancel the second recording and continue watching live tv or allow the box to switch to the second recorded program. Your choices at this point would be to watch either of the recording programs or a prerecorded one. On my system I can switch to my VCR input and watch an analog program. Happened to me a couple times before I figured it out.

Originally posted by artseattle
My guess is that you were already recording one program while watching the live program. guess again. i was watching a show recorded last week. And there was no dialog asking do you want to do this or that. It was just a sudden switch to a new program. I even accused my fellow watcher of fiddling with the remote. He held up his hands empty and said he did nothing.

In my case, I did get the warnings-- I can not remember if I was recording another program at the same time. The next time it happens I will pay special attention.

Were you recording/watching analog channels or digital channels when this happened? Shannon's FAQ in this thread's first post clearly says you can be recording 2 digital channels while watching a recorded digital channel program. But I wonder if this scenario works with analog channels. Are there 2 MPEG encoders?

• Can I record HD on both tuners while watching another recorded HD program?
Yes, this is supported.



You can have 2 channels recording, and watch one previously recorded show, at the same time. There are 2 tuners only.

I just tried an experiment:

1. Set up to record an SD channel at 11:00AM
2. Set up to record another SD channel at 11:30AM (overlapping #1)
3. Tune box to a third SD channel prior to 11:00AM
4. Start watching a previously recorded HD program prior to 11:00AM
5. Wait for both #1 & #2 to start recording and observe screen

This worked exactly as I expected, with both recordings starting and no interruption of viewing the recorded program or display of warning. I then stopped viewing the previously recorded program and observed that the tuner had changed to the channel recording #2. Only when I attempted to change the channel did the conflict resolution question appear. I didn't experience any DVR highjacking.

Originally posted by burger23
You can have 2 channels recording, and watch one previously recorded show, at the same time. There are 2 tuners only. That's for DIGITAL (HD) channels. Recording digital channels doesn't require an MPEG encoder - the box just copies the (already-compressed) bits "as-is" from the wire to the hard disk. My question was whether analog channels behaved differently, since the box has to do a lot more work - actually digitize & compress the signal in real time before recording.

Originally posted by jimre
That's for DIGITAL (HD) channels. Recording digital channels doesn't require an MPEG encoder - the box just copies the (already-compressed) bits "as-is" from the wire to the hard disk. My question was whether analog channels behaved differently, since the box has to do a lot more work - actually digitize & compress the signal in real time before recording.

Be it analog, digital, or high-definition the 6412 can record one or two channels at the same time with both tuners. It can also playback an analog, digital, or high-definition program from the DVR at the same time as it is recording one or two analog, digital, or high-definition channels.

Why the "hijaack" happened is probably a momentary software or hardware glitch in the box. Perhaps it reset itself during a download from Comcast.

Finally got the 6412 up and running.

I have a Fujitsu P50 plasma connected via component cable. The HD channels look awesome (my first HD at home).

I have audio connected via digital coax to a Denon AVR-3200. So far I am not impressed with the audio on the HD channels. The analog channels (below 100) sound better. Not sure if this is an issue with the content or the connection/config. When watching HD channels most of the sound is only coming out of the center channel. Some of the commercials played on the HD channels sound better than the main content playing.

I've been using the setup for two days now. I will continue to listen for patterns.

Just had an incident of the box getting stuck in REW2 mode and not responding to any commands from the remote or from the front panel until the rewind reached the beginning of the file. Then it started playback again.

What was really irritating was that it seemed like it was actually rewinding at REW1 speed, so it took a long time to reach the beginning of the file.

This occurred when several things were going on at once. I was recording a program and playing it back while it was still recording. A second program was starting to record while the first program was nearing the end of its recording time. At around that time, I hit REW a couple of times to rewatch a scene and it got stuck in rewind mode. Program 1 continued to record past its recording end time until the rewind function finished. Program 2 started recording 15 minutes late.

Edit: corrected symptoms

I got hijacked out of watching a DVR playback again. But this time, it had nothing to do with starting a new recording. I was watching a DVR playback (from days ago) and suddenly, it just popped over to a live show. I had to find the show I had been watching on the menu to resume it. In both cases the hijack happened when the clock was straight up at XX:00. ("straight up" is a metaphor borrowed from analog clocks.)

So, I'm thinking now that my earlier description of being hijacked to start a recording was just a coincidence.

Anyone else seeing this?

Nope. My unit has been operating fine no matter what it and I are doing.

Last night my box developed a problem with the initial menu screen for OnDemand. After it's up a few seconds, I get an error message (ERR-12), and I can't go anywhere except out of VOD. If I very quickly select the Saved button before the error occurs, then I can navigate through that menu OK. Since the problem is still there this morning, I suppose I'll need to call Comcast as the problem screen suggests.

Also getting this error message when trying to access On Demand. Also noticed that NFLHD and both INHD channels are out.

Others getting this?

181, 664, and 665 are also off the air for me. Last night I noticed that 181 was carrying a movie that will be on 665 in a few days (obviously, it was on the air then).

called Comcast this AM. CSR said On Demand is out. This isn't a 6412 issue.

All is well again. Stations and On Demand are back.

Originally posted by artseattle
All is well again. Stations and On Demand are back.

I have the stations back, but OnDemand is still giving me the same error. If it persists, I'll post any further comments on the "Seattle WA - Comcast" thread.

(12:45PM -- OnDemand is OK now.)

I recorded "The Pretenders" on 665 at 4AM this morning and it shows on the menu, but any attempt to play it shows only a Start Over option which does nothing. The recording space number indicates that it wasn't actually recorded, which I attribute to the outage of the INHD channels. Anyone who was recording anything this morning should be aware that the menu may indicate the presence of a recording which doesn't exist.

Twice I've had to try multiple restarts in order to get the sound to play back on programs I've recorded. Eventually a restart will bring in the sound (so far), so the sound is there but isn't always processed when the DVR is played.

The only real problems I've ahd that 0might- be attributable to the STB is slowness in changing channels. Far as I can tell, everything appears to be working as designed. Considering the software is a Microsoft product, I'm really surprised (pleasantly surprised) at the lack of system reboots and lockups.

I also must say I find the remote easy to use, easy enough that my wife is using it. Only down side for the remote is the (apparent) inability to change STB channels when the remote is in AUX mode. For my setup, when in AUX mode, if my wife tries to change channels, it changes inputs on my Denon receiver, which then completely throws her off because there's no good way for her to get back. If I could find a way to program chable channel up/down/numbers in the AUX mode, we'd be happy campers.

art

might take a look at the new Hamony 676 (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?PAGE=products/features/harmony&PATH=products/features/harmony&REF=CRID=2078&CRID=2078&countryid=19&languageid=1). Extremely easy to use... and very wife friendly :-)

Very Nice! Kinda pricey. Well, for me anyway. I'll check the review over at remotecentral.com. Thanks for the suggestion. Art

Remember that the Harmony won't do macros on the skip30 button, so no hacking in a skip. Other than that, I love my 688.

WAREAGLE,

I have the same darn DVR sound problem - somedays the sound would not disappear and other days every five mins- it only happens with shows with dolby surround (not 5.1)

I changed my reciever's surround sound to some other surround sound mode(like fake surround or something) and it never cuts out - never have a prob with HD shows with 5.1 sound - but experiment with the recvers sound modes

let me know

The problem I've experienced hasn't been with the DVR sound cutting out, but rather with the program being mute from the beginning. Restarting the play of the file can fix it, but sometimes it takes several tries. This has only happened to me on two recordings.

I feel your pain. We are having the same sound bug... and have resorted to the same remedy. Restarting the program fixes the bug and it works fine. This also seems to cure the "Left Rear Surround" only bug, too... Would be nice to have this fixed, but restarting has seemed to work every time we've had this issue.

What we can't fix, however, is the DVR sound bug that happens in the middle of shows. That stinks. We end up just skipping over the sound-less portion and trying to pick up where it left off. This happened during Boston Legal the other night.

Originally posted by burger23
might take a look at the new Hamony 676 (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?PAGE=products/features/harmony&PATH=products/features/harmony&REF=CRID=2078&CRID=2078&countryid=19&languageid=1). Extremely easy to use... and very wife friendly :-)
I've looked closely at the 680 and 676. Looks like the 680 has DVR controls, including a Live button. What do you use for a Live button on your 676?

They both function nearly the same- but the 680 was designed specifically to be used with the The Media Center PC. I have all the heavily used Comcast remote keys programmed into the 676. Customer support is outstanding. Just choose what components you wish to control (TV, amplifier, Cable box, DVD, etc) and the on-line program does the rest. I am getting so lazy that when I received the new 6412 box, I just called Tech support (answered promptly and in a very friendly manner)- the tech rep made the program changes into my passworded account-- all I did was tell him what I wanted and downloaded the results. Amazing--and fast.

Well, I'm amazed. I didn't think anyone provided that kind of customer service. You've just helped me make the decision. I've been using a Sony 2100, but have been unhappy with the LCD buttons. Hard to use those to control DVR functions without looking at the screen. Art

Yea, I will give Harmony (now Logitech) props for their customer service. They provide support 7 days a week and respond to requests submitted by their website within 24 hours. Often they make tweaks to your profile to fix your problems for you.

Now if enough Harmony customers beg for them to add a skip30 macro to our remotes for the 6412, maybe they'll figure out a way to do that.

The interesting thing about the 30 sec skip is that I thought I read somewhere here that it seems to work using the iGuide on the 6412, but not the MS software on the 6412.

Ok, did anyone figure out yet how to use your stereo volume while on the cable function of the remote? I have the TV programmed under TV and my stereo programmed under Aux, but still can't get the volume of the stereo to work under the Cable function. Any help would be appreciated.

That Harmony 680 looks like a nice way to upgrade the remote.

Originally posted by artshotwell
The interesting thing about the 30 sec skip is that I thought I read somewhere here that it seems to work using the iGuide on the 6412, but not the MS software on the 6412. Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Correct.

Lucky i-Guide user here and I have the 30 second skip feature. I love it! :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4701543#post4701543

If your remote is lock to your TV volume, and you want it to control your receiver volume, first unlock all volume controls by pressing the TV mode key and then the Setup key until the TV key blinks twice, release the Setup key and enter 9-9-3 and then press vol+ once. The mode key will blink four times confirming unlock. Then to lock the volume control to Aux, press Aux once, then press the Setup key until the Aux key blinks twice, then release the Setup key, enter 9-9-3 and then press Aux once. The Mode key will blink twice, confirming Aux volume global lock.

That Harmony 680 looks like a nice way to upgrade the remote.

Remember that the 680 was designed specifically for the Windows Media Center- the 676 is designed for DVR's in general. Check around for lowest pricing. You can program the 676 to use any of the Comcast remote keys. If you need assistance the technical support is second to none. They caan program the remote the way toy want--all you need to do is to download the settings--the settings are kept on a personal passworded site in case you need to download it again.

Thanks for the help. I got the volume figured out on the cable function. So which remote would work better for the 6412's in Seattle? The 676 or the 680?

OK...I'll admit I'm an idiot, but I could use a suggestion. With my MS remote, I tried programming the 30 second skip to my FAV key, without first reading that burger's codes were not applicable to the Microsoft version. Now, when I press FAV, nothing happens, however if I press SETUP first and then FAV, it accesses my favorites.

Does anyone know how to reset my remote back to normal? I suppose I could re-program the code via a macro to access favorites but this seems inefficient.

BothellKZ

Sorry if I misled you. I just checked my Comcast remote-and my FAV button also does not work. It does work on my Harmony. So I just called Harmony support to find out what code the Harmony uses. The rep said he thinks it is 0xA805. Well, that looks like a hex code and I have no idea what to do with it. Maybe someone else does-- looking for a 3 digit number.

If not, I'll try contacting Comcast technical support tomorrow.

Originally posted by BothellKZ
OK...I'll admit I'm an idiot, but I could use a suggestion. With my MS remote, I tried programming the 30 second skip to my FAV key, without first reading that burger's codes were not applicable to the Microsoft version. Now, when I press FAV, nothing happens, however if I press SETUP first and then FAV, it accesses my favorites.

Does anyone know how to reset my remote back to normal? I suppose I could re-program the code via a macro to access favorites but this seems inefficient.
I think the code is 00079. So...
1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote to put it into Cable Box control mode.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the "Cable" button blinks twice.
3) Type in the code 994. The "Cable" button will blink twice
4) Press (do not hold) the "Setup" button
5) Type in the code 00079 (for FAV).
6) Press the FAV button.

See if that works... Art

Thanks, Art--
Worked for me

[SARCASM ON] I pity you all with the Harmony xxx. Get a real remote like the Home Theater Master MX-700. With one remote I am controlling the following:

2 Zektor component video switchers
Yamaha RX-V995 amp
Motorola 6412 DVR
ReplayTV 4080
ReplayTV 5060
Toshiba DST-3000 OTA Receiver
JVC30K D-VHS recorder
Pinnacle Show Center
Toshiba Cinema HD TV

Never had to ask for custmer service.
Never had to ask for a code.
Wife doesn't call me at work to ask how to turn on the TV :D
[/SARCASM OFF]

Wow, this thread has gone way OT. Glad I could help!!!!

Since Microsoft (thanks Shannon!) and Comcast (hopefully) review this discussion, here are some thoughts to pass back to them. for the most part, I'm pleased with the comcast moto 6412. it's great that comcast finally delivered the hd-dvr after all the promises and delays. however, other than the limited storage capacity (10-12 hours on the 120GB drive is about right - should've been at least a 200gb+), the biggest gripe I have with the box is the inconsistency of the UI. The lack of consistency makes it awkward navigating through the UI and hurts the discoverability of operation. not sure whether the issues are by design, or just bugs that were overlooked - or whether they're from the Microsoft side or the Comcast/Motorola side (or just 2 different systems).

Maybe I'm jaded, but after being a directivo user for a number of years, I've found the tivo UI to be very simple and consistent. you can always use the right-arrow to move down into a menu, and the left-arrow to move back. you can also get out of any menu and to a live channel from anywhere in the UI by pressing exit (or 'live').

some specific examples of issues with the 6412/microsoft platform:
- there's no consistent way to get back to a previous menu as you move deeper into the UI. some menus have a 'last' button to get back, some don't - if you press the 'last' button on the remote for those that don't, the UI exits and the channel changes (bad).

"last" examples:

+ my dvr - pressing 'last' here exits the menu and changes channel

+ my dvr->add recording->guide - pressing last here exits the UI and changes the channel

+ my dvr->scheduled-><pre-recorded program>->other showings - from here, you can't get back to the 'my dvr' menu without pressing the 'my dvr' remote button.

+ my dvr->add recording->{any of the search menus} - pressing 'last' changes the channel

+ my dvr->scheduled-><pre-recorded program>->other showings - pressing 'last' changes the channel

+ my dvr->add recording->manual recording - actually, the 'last' button works as I'd expect and takes you back to the my dvr menu. (as expected)

+ on demand - pressing 'last' here does takes you back to the live program (as expected)

+ my dvr->scheduled-><pre-recorded program>->record options - pressing 'last' returns to the previous menu (as expected)


can't return to previous menu:

+ menu->my dvr - can't return to the previous menu - have to press the 'menu' button

+ my dvr->add recording->guide - from here, you can't get back to the 'my dvr' menu without pressing the 'my dvr' remote button.

+ my dvr->scheduled-><pre-recorded program>->other showings - from here, you can't get back to the 'my dvr' menu without pressing the 'my dvr' remote button.

+ my dvr->add recording->{any of the search menus} - from here, you can't get back to the 'my dvr' menu without pressing the 'my dvr'
remote button.


'live' button isn't always used to get to a live program

- it's a little inconsistent to get directly to a live tv channel from a menu or when watching a pre-recorded program.

+ my dvr->add recording->guide - pressing 'live' on the remote does nothing. (you can press 'exit')

+ my dvr->dvd recordings-><pre-recorded program> - pressing 'live' on the remote does nothing. (you can press 'exit')

+ from playing pre-recorded program, 'live' does take you to the last live channel



- in the mini-guide when only one program is displayed, the -day and +day buttons don't work. they do work in the full guide, or in the
mini-guide when 4 programs are displayed at the same time. also, when viewing favorite channels, the -day and +day buttons don't work at all
either - even when the 4 channels are displayed at the same time (press [fav] button->[right-arrow].


some suggestions:

from any menu or playing of pre-recorded program, the remote buttons should operate in a consistent way, independent of the context...
- 'last' should always be used to return the previous menu

- 'live' should always take you to the current program

- 'exit' should always take you to the current program

- when moving through the guide, if you move forward more than a week, instead of just showing the day on the guide, the date should also be
shown. this should also be the case if you scroll through search results (e.g., from the HDTV search), so as you page/move through the results,
the date should be displayed (at least as mm/dd)


my 2 cents...

as a fellow tivo user, i felt the same way but didn't have the energy to compose such a response so thanks brent. some of the ui is a bit clunky such as manual recording. in general the ui has the feel of having been created and tested on a pc with keyboard and mouse rather than focused around a user armed with a remote. however it's much better than the iguide alternative so i'm thankful for the software and look forward to future versions.

Nicely done, brente. As a web designer with a UI experience, I'd say you're right on. I would note, however, that Tivo's UI is known as about the best out there for usability. Their UI and the remote both have won plaudits and awards. Microsoft, on the other hand...isn't known for usability. Nevertheless, they've done a pretty good job. Better than I expected.

Thanks Brent - and Shannon (your participation is priceless).
I agree with Brent on the points he makes. I have become used to using the 'exit' button and starting from scratch.

I have a question on the volume control. I have my Sony receiver mapped to "AUX". When I press "AUX", the TV volume changes, not the Sony's. Is there any way to map the "AUX" volume to the Sony, and the "TV" and "CABLE" volume to the TV?

I have another minor gripe/suggestion to add to Brent's comments:

Menus should have circular navigation -> ie if I'm at the bottom of a list (in the MyDVR menu for example), pressing down again should return to the top of the list.

I waste a lot of time cursoring down, then up again....

Rich

There are a couple of things I've noticed that need work in the UI:

Although program listings are available for two weeks, none of them have dates (only days of the week). Sometimes it's not clear whether you're looking at a schedule for the first week or the second. Minor point.

There is a bug in the OnDemand menus in which there is a down arrow on some, although there are no further items available in the menu. Selecting down or page down in that case results in the system hanging up for a short period, buffering up commands (if frustration causes you to make multiple hits on the button), then either crashing OnDemand or zipping through the buffered commands out to who-knows-where. An example is noted below --

OnDemand
Music
Music Choice
Rock
When you reach the last entry (but have no way to know it's the last one) the troublesome arrow is there, and attempts to go to the next page cause problems. (This list seems to be inconsistent as to which entry is last from one attempt to another, so perhaps the problem isn't with the down arrow, but a bug in the list processing itself.)

My 6412 loses power at least once a night, last night at 10:53, damned annoying when recording at that time. Anyone else experiencing loss of power? It comes back up okay but if I lose it when not around I miss recording certain shows.

That's weird. I haven't had any power problems or rebooting problems with my 6412.

Originally posted by nodrog2
My 6412 loses power at least once a night, last night at 10:53, damned annoying when recording at that time. Anyone else experiencing loss of power? It comes back up okay but if I lose it when not around I miss recording certain shows.

I'm having that problem. I leave it on at night and find off in the morning. Also happened during recording and watching live.

Sounds like there's some faulty 6412 hardware out there. The same issues have been reported on the iGuide 6412 thread which leads me to believe you guys need to get a replacement box. Mine hasn't had any such problems.

On the UI front....

How about the using the fill 16:9 screen realestate for 720P and 1080i resolutions. Or is this a limiation of the 6412's overlay surface for UI? Heck... MS can't even get this right on MCE (LOL).

I still say we need profiles for different members of the family with unique channel line ups.

My 6412 was swapped out today as Firewire quit working. Unfortunately I lost all my recordings.....

Thx,
Vidkidd

I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. I'm just getting over my turkey coma... :)

Brente (and others)- thanks for the detailed UI comments. We know there is room for improvement and the issues you outlined are noted in our bug database.

Hijacking while watching recorded (not currently recording) shows - if anyone sees this happening, please PM me with specific repro steps and any relevant environment information.

Sound issues - This is not something under our control. I would recommend calling comcast so they are aware of the issue.

16:9 screen with centered 4:3 UI - This is all the current hw and firmware support. We've asked for this capability as well. I have a 16:9 screen so I feel your pain. :)

Ok, I've now been using the Comcast/Motorola DCT6412 and I have quite a few comments/problems, so I thought I'd share them here. First, let me say that, although there are some issues I'll note below, the software is decent. I have some issues with the hardware though. :)

--- Hardware ---

1) Am I the only one who finds the hard-drive accesses to be extremely loud? I actually returned my first DVR box and got another one because it annoyed me so much. The new box I have is better in that the hard drive isn't too annoying when the box is "off", but when watching shows I can usually hear the hard drive over the TV, which is not a good thing. Despite the other problems I list below, this one is the deal breaker for me. If I can't get a quieter unit, I'll probably cancel my DVR service by next week. I'm surprised no one else has even mentioned the noise, but perhaps I'm overly sensitive.

2) It is a bit annoying that Comcast "ran out" of the DVR remotes. They're mostly just giving out the normal remotes without the Instant Replay, My DVR, and Live buttons and they are telling me it will likely be months before they get more in stock. I am at a loss for how they can have so many more boxes than remotes, but oh well. :)

3) On the Comcast and Motorola sites, they state that the 120 GB drive should be able to store 90 hours of SD TV. Well, I now have 4 hours of SD TV recorded and my capacity is at 12%. This gives me about 30 hours total, which is a fraction of what they state. Is anyone else noticing this?

4) What does the Record LED on the front of the DVR box do? I've tried recording shows while I'm watching them, scheduling shows, watching shows live while recording on another channel/tuner, and this LED never turns on. Is this just not implemented yet? None of the manuals I've found mention the "Record" option. They all state that there is an A/B Bypass there, which now exists in the box options menu.

--- Software ----

5) Earlier today, I was watching channel 4 (KOMO) at 7:30 and had a show scheduled to record on channel 10 (WB) at 8:00 PM. At 7:59, a dialog came up warning me that my show might be interrupted and asking me to switch to channel 10. Why would it do this?? Isn't the point of a dual tuner to be able to record and not have to watch it also?

6) Similarly, tonight as well, I was recording on channel 10 (WB) until 10:00 PM and had a show scheduled to start at 10:00 PM on channel 5 (NBC). At 9:59, a dialog came up telling me to switch to channel 5 or cancel the recording of the show on channel 5 at 10:00 PM. Again, why is this necessary? Shouldn't I be able to stay on the channel I'm on and still record this?

7) The Mini-Guide is nice, but I must say I do miss the easy little "up-arrow" I could press on my old digital cable box to see the current program. I could then press the right arrow to see shows coming up next or type a channel number in and see what was on on that channel. I can sort of do this with the Mini-Guide, but the "Mini" guide takes up half my screen while the old box could do this using only a fraction of the display. It's not a huge deal, but I used this feature quite often and am sad to see it go away.

8) On i-Channels I noticed that the titles in the Other Stories sections are cut off after only four or five characters on everything but the Home page. The Home page displays fine, but, on the others, the story titles are virtually unreadable. I don't really use this feature, but I thought I'd point it out in case someone planned on fixing it. :)

9) I find the Search to be hard-to-use due to the huge amount of text that's cut-off on the returned shows/movie titles. I can scroll over every movie to see the full title, but it'd be nice to see at least half of the title in the search results. I suspect this is Comcast's advertising and not the software, but it still is sad.

10) Finally, as others have said, the Menu navigation is very unwieldy. Pressing Last sometimes goes backwards and it sometimes changes channels. It's very difficult to determine how to go back one level of the menu depending on where you are.

Ok, that's it for now. If anyone read this far, I'm impressed. :)

Sam

I have been somewhat happy with my 6412. Only one gripe I would like to get off my chest.

Yesterday, I came home from work, pushed "My DVR" to watch a show I recorded, and to my dismay - ALL MY INFO was reset. I somehow lost all of my recordings, including one I had marked as "Never Delete". All of the shows I had set as "Record Series" were also lost. It's as if an elf came into my home and swapped my box..

Would this be a malfunction in the box, or could it be Comcast playing a dirty trick and flashing my box (if possible)???

I scheduled Smallville as a series. My DVR Recordings listed Wednesday's episdoe. But when I tried to play it, there was a five second wait and then the little video window in the corner said "end of show" and the onscreen "Play" button changed to "Star Over"

If I select "start over" again, it did nothing for five seconds and then displayed the "end of show" message.

Originally posted by glug
however it's much better than the iguide alternative so i'm thankful for the software and look forward to future versions. Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

hmmmm... based on what I'm reading here. Looks like the i-Guide (I have it) is clearly better than FE 1.7.

Originally posted by mktgMaven
I scheduled Smallville as a series. My DVR Recordings listed Wednesday's episdoe. But when I tried to play it, there was a five second wait and then the little video window in the corner said "end of show" and the onscreen "Play" button changed to "Star Over"

If I select "start over" again, it did nothing for five seconds and then displayed the "end of show" message.

This is symptomatic of the channel being off the air (as others have noted for this program on WB last night). Nothing was actually recorded in that case.

Originally posted by TayX

--- Hardware ---

3) On the Comcast and Motorola sites, they state that the 120 GB drive should be able to store 90 hours of SD TV. Well, I now have 4 hours of SD TV recorded and my capacity is at 12%. This gives me about 30 hours total, which is a fraction of what they state. Is anyone else noticing this?

4) What does the Record LED on the front of the DVR box do? I've tried recording shows while I'm watching them, scheduling shows, watching shows live while recording on another channel/tuner, and this LED never turns on. Is this just not implemented yet? None of the manuals I've found mention the "Record" option. They all state that there is an A/B Bypass there, which now exists in the box options menu.
.
.
.
Ok, that's it for now. If anyone read this far, I'm impressed. :)

Sam

3) The analog channels will record 30 or 40 hours. The SD digital channels will be more like 90. All shows (SD or HD) on the HD channels will be somewhere around 15.

4) My Record LED (red) is on when the DVR is recording.

Thanks.

Other Sam

Originally posted by TayX

5) Earlier today, I was watching channel 4 (KOMO) at 7:30 and had a show scheduled to record on channel 10 (WB) at 8:00 PM. At 7:59, a dialog came up warning me that my show might be interrupted and asking me to switch to channel 10. Why would it do this?? Isn't the point of a dual tuner to be able to record and not have to watch it also?

6) Similarly, tonight as well, I was recording on channel 10 (WB) until 10:00 PM and had a show scheduled to start at 10:00 PM on channel 5 (NBC). At 9:59, a dialog came up telling me to switch to channel 5 or cancel the recording of the show on channel 5 at 10:00 PM. Again, why is this necessary? Shouldn't I be able to stay on the channel I'm on and still record this?
These are symptomatic of trying to record two programs and watch a third live. There is an overlap when one recording ends at 10 and another starts at 10. The first recording will run until 1 or 2 mins after. The second recording will start a minute or so early. Thus taking both tuners for consecutive programs. Not sure what happens if they're both on the same channel.

Where can I find out about remote codes for the new 6412 remote control?

Originally posted by Steve Goff
Where can I find out about remote codes for the new 6412 remote control? Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Refer to this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4670705#post4670705

Originally posted by artshotwell
These are symptomatic of trying to record two programs and watch a third live. There is an overlap when one recording ends at 10 and another starts at 10. The first recording will run until 1 or 2 mins after. The second recording will start a minute or so early. Thus taking both tuners for consecutive programs. Not sure what happens if they're both on the same channel.

I find this "feature" to be the most annoying thing about the DVR. If I wanted to pad the recording by a minute on either side I'd do so. I want a global option in the MS software to turn this off.

Originally posted by markjrenna
Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Refer to this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4670705#post4670705

I'm actually looking for a list of codes that will map certain functions to certain buttons, such as the earlier post with the code for the favorites button.

Originally posted by metz520
I find this "feature" to be the most annoying thing about the DVR. If I wanted to pad the recording by a minute on either side I'd do so. I want a global option in the MS software to turn this off.
I agree. I'd like to be able to shorten recordings by one minute, in addition to the MSFE option to lengthen recordings.

Originally posted by artshotwell
These are symptomatic of trying to record two programs and watch a third live. There is an overlap when one recording ends at 10 and another starts at 10. The first recording will run until 1 or 2 mins after. The second recording will start a minute or so early. Thus taking both tuners for consecutive programs. Not sure what happens if they're both on the same channel.

Hmm. I suppose I can understand this. But, why does it use both tuners on the same channel? If I am recording something and watching it at the same time, why can't this use the SAME buffer? This is an extremely common activity for me and I am often recording/watching another show right after the one I am currently watching. So, as far as the unit is concerned, since all of the shows are double-buffered, I only really have one tuner and not two?

Sam

Originally posted by wareagle
3) The analog channels will record 30 or 40 hours. The SD digital channels will be more like 90. All shows (SD or HD) on the HD channels will be somewhere around 15.

4) My Record LED (red) is on when the DVR is recording.

Thanks.

Other Sam

Oddly enough, I'm on my second DVR unit and neither one ever lights up the Record LED. Strange.

Sam

Originally posted by TayX
Hmm. I suppose I can understand this. But, why does it use both tuners on the same channel? If I am recording something and watching it at the same time, why can't this use the SAME buffer? This is an extremely common activity for me and I am often recording/watching another show right after the one I am currently watching. So, as far as the unit is concerned, since all of the shows are double-buffered, I only really have one tuner and not two?Sam
I understand you. It doesn't have the smarts built in to know both tuners are on the same channel. I am adapting to this behavior by not watching anything live if I've got two back-to-back recordings. What I have a tendancy to do is sometime in the evening, I watch a show from the previous night, then watch delayed shows from tonight. I watch practically nothing live...keeps me out of the way of double-buffering. Or...I simply manually stop a recording a minute or two before the hour.

Yes, not ideal behavior, but it -may- get fixed. Someone from MS does seem to watch one of these forums. I'm confident they'll work on their software. What happens to the iGuide software is another issue.

Originally posted by vidkidd
On the UI front....

How about the using the fill 16:9 screen realestate for 720P and 1080i resolutions. Or is this a limiation of the 6412's overlay surface for UI? Heck... MS can't even get this right on MCE (LOL).


My MCE box handles this just fine. Has for the last 2 versions

Codes click here (http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?cbl_0476)

After my 6412 install, I am not receiving some of the HD channels that I used to get, specifically DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, and INHD2. When I called the Comcast CSR, she said that they caller before me had the same problem. I have tried power cycling the box(unplugging it and plugging it back in), but nothing has worked. All of my channels still say To Be Announced and the above mentioned HD channels say "Not Authorized".
I have waited for hours and nothing has changed.

Does anyone know how to fix this problem?

After a couple of weeks with the 6412, let me add my pet UI peeve for the consideration of the MS programmers. I like to search by category for HD programs. The list is presented from the current time, which is fine. I scroll down one by one until I find someithing to record. I set it to record.

Of course, I'd like to search on forward from that point, but no- I'm returned to the current time again, so I have to scroll down through the same listings yet again. Rinse and repeat. Takes forever, especially since each show down is a separate button push, not a smooth scroll with the button held down.

Is there any hope of a revision in the near future to handle the UI issues set forth on this forum?

Perhaps it's just my box, but since getting the box with the new guide, I've noticed that when browsing through the On Demand selections my box will frequently lock up. Before the new box/guide, I rarely had On Demand lockup, but it's now a very regular occurrence. Most of the time, the box will simply generate an error after about fifteen seconds and then return you to live TV, but last night the box locked up so bad that I actually had to manually turn it off after about five minutes of no response.

Originally posted by burger23
Codes click here (http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?cbl_0476)

Thanks!

drbenson, I agree with your suggestion. However, on my system I can hold the button down and scroll quickly. I can also use the Page Down to move even more quickly.

Originally posted by DFul4d
After my 6412 install, I am not receiving some of the HD channels that I used to get, specifically DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, and INHD2. When I called the Comcast CSR, she said that they caller before me had the same problem. I have tried power cycling the box(unplugging it and plugging it back in), but nothing has worked. All of my channels still say To Be Announced and the above mentioned HD channels say "Not Authorized".
I have waited for hours and nothing has changed.

Does anyone know how to fix this problem?
I didn't get Starz HD at first, but I was getting NFL and NBA networks which for some reason I hadn't been getting before. Then 2 days later it went back to normal, I got Starz back and the sports ones went away. There apparently is some registration process that takes place. I never called. If you can stand to wait a couple days, I would do that, otherwise call back and talk to someone who actually says what to do to fix it.

Quote:

I like to search by category for HD programs------
-----------------------------------------------

I'd also like to be able to identify HD programs in advance, but I haven't found any way to do that from the 3 online and 3 newspaper program guides I have. On my 6200 box, I find a listing of stations that broadcast HD programs, but no specific programs are marked for HD. None of the paper guides show any such indicators. If I'm missing something on the Comcast Menu that would take me to an HD program list, please let me know. Is there an intent on broadcasters' part to keep you from knowing which programs are in HD, before they go on the air? Some shows are always in HD, but being new to such programming, I don't know what they all are yet. PBS seems to present HD programs at odd hours, even in the middle of the night, that are one-time presentations.

Another problem is viewing the full page on the guide that's on analog channel 2. When I watch it through the digital box, I can shrink and move the annoying promotional content that uses the upper 2/3 of the screen.
But, when I bypass the box and tune it with a VCR or HDD recorder, there's no control available to expand the guide's space on the screen.

Quote:

I like to search by category for HD programs------
-----------------------------------------------

I'd also like to be able to identify HD programs in advance, but I haven't found any way to do that from the 3 online and 3 newspaper program guides I have. On my 6200 box, I find a listing of stations that broadcast HD programs, but no specific programs are marked for HD. None of the paper guides show any such indicators. If I'm missing something on the Comcast Menu that would take me to an HD program list, please let me know. Is there an intent on broadcasters' part to keep you from knowing which programs are in HD, before they go on the air? Some shows are always in HD, but being new to such programming, I don't know what they all are yet. PBS seems to present HD programs at odd hours, even in the middle of the night, that are one-time presentations.

Another problem is viewing the full page on the guide that's on analog channel 2. When I watch it through the digital box, I can shrink and move the annoying promotional content that uses the upper 2/3 of the screen.
But, when I bypass the box and tune it with a VCR or HDD recorder, there's no control available to expand the guide's space on the screen.

Comcast subscribers in the Seattle area using the Microsoft interface have the capability of finding true HD broadcast listings using the remote. That system, along with the 6412 DVR, is the reason for this thread.

Originally posted by drbenson
After a couple of weeks with the 6412, let me add my pet UI peeve for the consideration of the MS programmers. I like to search by category for HD programs. The list is presented from the current time, which is fine. I scroll down one by one until I find someithing to record. I set it to record.

Of course, I'd like to search on forward from that point, but no- I'm returned to the current time again, so I have to scroll down through the same listings yet again. Rinse and repeat. Takes forever, especially since each show down is a separate button push, not a smooth scroll with the button held down.

Is there any hope of a revision in the near future to handle the UI issues set forth on this forum?

Somebody mentioned the page down button which is good. Also I think there is a day+ button but I haven't tried this.

Finally, while I understand what you're getting at, I don't think the scenario you are talking about exists that way. You can press record once on a program in the list and a little red dot shows up and you're done. The list is still exactly where you left off (you never even left the list) and so you can just keep paging or scrolling one-by-one down.

Originally posted by xkode2002
Somebody mentioned the page down button which is good. Also I think there is a day+ button but I haven't tried this.
.
.
.
You can press record once on a program in the list and a little red dot shows up and you're done.

The day+/- button works great. Thanks for the record button suggestion. For some reason, I hadn't thought of using that for anything other than immediate recording.

one of my 6412s has been freezing up all day. It will just stop responding completely (to the remote and the buttons on the front of the box) the only way to fix it is to unplug the box from the wall.... any Ideas???

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
one of my 6412s has been freezing up all day. It will just stop responding completely (to the remote and the buttons on the front of the box) the only way to fix it is to unplug the box from the wall.... any Ideas??? Unplug your 30K from the firewire port. I was having trouble with the box freezing up when changing channels and narrowed it down to my 40K and firewire. You could also try changing the channel on your 30K to something other than I-n. Then change it back to I-n when you want to record to the 30K.

what if my jvc 30K is off?

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
one of my 6412s has been freezing up all day. It will just stop responding completely (to the remote and the buttons on the front of the box) the only way to fix it is to unplug the box from the wall.... any Ideas??? Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Can you make it freeze or does it happen randomly or when in certain guide menus or just watching TV.

If you can elaborate that would be great.

I have a JVC30K connected to my Mot 6412. Both are on 7X24. I have not had a SINGLE problem. I have filled up my disk to 86% without a single flaw. No power resets. No loss of recorded programs. Nothing! I currently have all 3 Matrix movies on my DVR in HD and am anticipating that I will transfer them to DHVS on my JVC30K this weekend. I have other shows also. The 6412 has been rock solid for me. I truly wish all of you could have the same experience I am having. I LOVE my new HD DVR from Comcast.

Originally posted by Steve McD
Quote:

I'd also like to be able to identify HD programs in advance, but I haven't found any way to do that from the 3 online and 3 newspaper program guides I have.

can't live without titantv.com (http://titantv.com/TTV/Grid/Grid.aspx)

Out if curiousity, is it possible to have the 6412 continue to display the current time while watching a recorded show? I used my previous digital cable box for this purpose and I'm currently using the 6412 for my clock as well. It'd be nice to still do this while watching recorded shows, but I'm not sure it's possible. Any help would be appreciated. :)

I'm the opposite - I don't want the time display. I miss the ability (from the 5100) to disable the time display when the box is 'off' - I just don't want all the glowing LEDs, FPDs or whatever in my equipment rack at night....

We must've found all the real problems with this system if we're choosing sides on the pro/anti time display issue.

Originally posted by JasG
I'm the opposite - I don't want the time display. I miss the ability (from the 5100) to disable the time display when the box is 'off' - I just don't want all the glowing LEDs, FPDs or whatever in my equipment rack at night....

There is an option in Settings -> Cable Box Settings to Disable Time Display on the box. I think this should do what you want.

Sam

Originally posted by jameskollar
I have a JVC30K connected to my Mot 6412. Both are on 7X24. I have not had a SINGLE problem. I have filled up my disk to 86% without a single flaw. No power resets. No loss of recorded programs. Nothing! I currently have all 3 Matrix movies on my DVR in HD and am anticipating that I will transfer them to DHVS on my JVC30K this weekend. I have other shows also. The 6412 has been rock solid for me. I truly wish all of you could have the same experience I am having. I LOVE my new HD DVR from Comcast. Well be sure to post back here when you archive those Matrix movies to your 30K and let us know how rock solid it is then. I have a 40k/6412(2 of them) and I can't even get video to display through to the 40K without unplugging everything first. I got used to simply powering off the 6208/6200 and that always reset the handshake between the 2 boxes but nothing short of unplugging the whole works helps now. Dammit, this is exactly what I was afraid of when I let the 6208/6200 go. Looks like I wait for another firmware upgrade before they maybe get this problem fixed.

Originally posted by wareagle
We must've found all the real problems with this system if we're choosing sides on the pro/anti time display issue.

Well, the time display is important for some and non-important for others. For me, since the box is my only visible clock in the area, it's very important for me for the box to be able to display the time when I'm watching recorded programs. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything to be done for it. Oh well. :)

Sam

Well be sure to post back here when you archive those Matrix movies to your 30K and let us know how rock solid it is then.

Just performed my first archive to my JVC 30K (actually saved Lord of the Rings, Return of the King). It worked for me. Admittedly, I did not watch the entire movie, but I went to 2 random sections of the movie and watched 5 minutes at both points. No problems at all. PQ was great and DD5.1 played without a hitch.

When I've actually watched an archived movie in it's entirety, I'll post back. May be a while because I'm awfully busy recording movies and archiving them. No time to actually watch them. :D

Originally posted by TayX
Oddly enough, I'm on my second DVR unit and neither one ever lights up the Record LED. Strange.

Sam

Ok, make that my third DVR unit and still nothing lights up when recording. What are the chances that I got three bad boxes in a row?

Sam

Originally posted by TayX
There is an option in Settings -> Cable Box Settings to Disable Time Display on the box. I think this should do what you want.

Sam Nope, only controls the display of time or channel - no effect when the box is 'off'.

Originally posted by TayX
Oddly enough, I'm on my second DVR unit and neither one ever lights up the Record LED. Strange.

Sam I just got my second 6412 (power problem with the first) and I now don't get the red record led either. Are you living with this? Does it cause any problems? I hate to make a service call for something that is so apparently minor.

Originally posted by nodrog2
I just got my second 6412 (power problem with the first) and I now don't get the red record led either. Are you living with this? Does it cause any problems? I hate to make a service call for something that is so apparently minor.

Well, I'm going to try and exchange my new box as well until I get one that works correctly. For most people though, I don't expect it's a big deal, as long as you trust that your box is recording when it should be, even without the light.

The unfortunate part is that the Comcast Store near me won't let me try the new box before bringing it home or demonstrate the fault in my existing box before swapping it for a new one. If they let me do this, I'm sure I can find a box that works in the store, but as it is now, I have to keep driving back and forth only to find that my new box is no better than the last.

Sam

Called to get the new 6412. I had to pay $10 for installs (wouldn't let me come in to swap) and $75 deposit via credit card (that I will, supposedly, get back in a year if I don't discontinue service). The lady said the reason for the deposit was that "these are $500 units and it is what management said was required"....

I've heard that the $75 deposit is for customers who have paid their bill late within the last 6 months. But doesn't their excuse sound better?

I thought this thread was about MSTV software deployed by Comcast on 6412 boxes - which last I heard, was Seattle-area only. Why exactly are we discussing billing problems in Michigan?

Originally posted by jimre
I thought this thread was about MSTV software deployed by Comcast on 6412 boxes - which last I heard, was Seattle-area only. Why exactly are we discussing billing problems in Michigan?
I've been wondering the same thing, but didn't want to push it. Glad you have. Any discussion not dealing with the 6412 boxes with MS software is off topic.

well, i guess he heard it - deleted

Well, there definitely is an issue with performing routine DVR functions at the same time that a recording is scheduled to start.

Today, I went to resume play on a recording at about the time that a new recording was due to start, and it started playing the resumed recording in that little window in the DVR menu but never exited the DVR menu to go back to the full display. Instead, the box became non-responsive to any commands from the remote or front panel. Eventually, it power cycled itself and discontinued the new recording. This new recording ended up with two entries, both with 0 percent. I deleted both, and rescheduled the recording for an alternate showing. The resume play function started up at the original starting point, not the point where the box power cycled itself.

The 6412 could use a reset button so we can force it out of these lockups ourselves. I'm afraid that unplugging and replugging the power could corrupt the hard disk and lose the operating system or the recorded programs, if you did this while a recording was starting, stopping, or being recorded.

Shannonv, can you comment on the danger potential of this happening?

Last night, I had the DVR set to record The Amazing Race 6 on CBS From 9-10 PM and Scrubs on NBC (the HD channel, KINGDT) at 9:30. The TV was off and I came to watch the shows at 10:15 PM or so. I looked at the recordings and it claimed Amazing Race was recorded for 1 hour 4 minutes, but when I went to play it, it only showed that there was 34 minutes of it recorded on the play-bar. Scrubs recorded correctly and, in fact, my TV was on NBC when I turned it on.

What gives with this?? Did the DVR stop recording Amazing Race to swap to Scrubs at 9:30? It shouldn't have, obviously, but that was my first guess as the TV was on NBC when I turned it on. If it did this though, I would assume the recording time of The Amazing Race 6 would be 34 minutes and not 1h4 as it states. Anyone else have this problem? My VCR sure didn't.

Sam

Up till now my 6412/MSTV has worked pretty well. But I just got bit by a bug - for a DVR, the absolute worst kind of bug: losing recorded shows.

Scenario:

Sat, 12/4 - 9:04 pm. Was watching ch. 4 KOMO "Lion King" special. Decided this would be good to record for my daughter, even though had already started. Hit RECORD button. Checked later, and it said 28 minutes had recorded (missing the first couple minutes as expected).

Today - I go to show this recording to my daughter. Hit MyDVR button. The show is still in the recordings list. Select it, hit ENTER. Choose PLAY. Results in error message:

DVR PLAYBACK ERROR
This recorded show is no longer available. Please select another recorded show from DVR.

WTF? If the recorded show isn't available, why in the hell would it be in my recorded shows list? Space shouldn't be an issue - it says 56% full. But the show is in the recordings list; still says it's "28 min long, recorded 12/4 at 9:04pm on ch. 4. This recording started late...". All exactly as expected, except the damn thing won't play. Grrr.....

I lost ALL of my recordings last night. The hard drive has been running between 75-96% full, but was at 72% showing only 3 [of 4 or 5] saved programs available [from 12/15]. I had a late night HD show on INHD recording for 45 or 60 minutes. This hard drive was working really great since 12/15.

I could watch one of the SAVED programs after seeing an error message. All playback functions were disabled. I hit POWER and NO RECORDINGS with a 72% filled drive. :mad: I was able to record 2 more programs; so now all recordings are marked [!] for deletion right away as the drive is at 83% filled. :mad:

I am currently rebooting the box and will give it some time to load the PG.
I'm going now to buy a tape for this weekend as I am going to be gone much of the time. More later...

No need to wait. It's my understanding that the 6412 holds the guide in non-volitile memory. It should be there after rebooting.

Add one more person that lost recording and scheduled shows. Unpluging the box restored the -previously recorded shows-- but as above, lost the scheduled recordings.

I have had absolutely (knock on wood) no previous issues with MSFE 1.7 until now. This must be a Microsoft issue. I am on Guide build 17.16 (243785). It would be interesting if someone who has NOT experienced this issue would see what their version is (Menu->scroll to Settings-> Scroll to Cable Box Options->Diagnostics)

Correction from 2 posts ago: After a power cord unplug/rebooting, my shows were there. However, my saved shows were at risk of being deleted by tonight. If I had not caught this today...they would be gone by tomorrow. Unplug/reboot [with the unit not recording and set off] before freaking like me. :eek:

Note that I am still very impressed by this product in general, considering the alternatives are 1. a lot of work OR 2. a Directivo at $1000.

Wow! It sounds like a lot of people have lost all their recordings all of a sudden (last night). This also happened to me too. Is there something magical about 12/8 or 12/9 on this box? Scary.

Maybe they forgot to tell us our 6412s are just trial versions that expire after 30 days...

Maybe they forgot to tell us our 6412s are just trial versions that expire after 30 days...

Haven't had mine for 30 days (they were officially released on 11/15). Did not lose any recordings like some others. That's what you get for being the early, early adopters... ;)

I too was very happy with the product. Sure, some user interface rough edges but pretty good all in all.

Until today. Came home after a class to watch Survivor and Apprentice. Gone. All of my scheduled recordings were wiped out. The shows that had recorded before yesterday were there after I did a hard reboot of the system.

This never happened with my Tivo. I guess this is what it is like to live on the cutting edge. It would be helpful if someone from MSFT could explain what went wrong. Clearly, this isn't an isolated incident. Shannon?? Help???

Can I be confident in this product anymore to actually record what I specified? I have to agree with an earlier poster that this is the worse type of failure for this kind of product.

Sigh..

Sounds like it caches the file system and Comcast did something that cleared out the cache. The reboot causes the software to reread the directory and rebuild the cache.

The scheduled recordings apparently live in the cache and not on the hard disk, so the flushing of the cache clears this out and does not restore it upon reboot.

I have one scheduled program series that mysteriously does not record when it is supposed to. Fortunately it is not critical, but I've learned to tread carefully around this box when critical stuff is recording.

Interesting about the lost recordings. I haven't lost any recordings or schedules (yet). Thought some of you who have lost recordings might be interested.

This is a repost from yesterday

Add one more person that lost recording and scheduled shows. Unpluging the box restored the -previously recorded shows-- but as above, lost the scheduled recordings.

I have had absolutely (knock on wood) no previous issues with MSFE 1.7 until now. This must be a Microsoft issue. I am on Guide build 17.16 (243785). It would be interesting if someone who has NOT experienced this issue would see what their version is (Menu->scroll to Settings-> Scroll to Cable Box Options->Diagnostics)

No one has responded. It would be interesting to know the software build on a 6412 that did not lose it's shows yesterday.

Art?

I haven't lost any recordings, and my build is the same: 17.16 (24378S).

I have the same version 17.16 (24378S) and don't have any of these problems. All my scheduled shows recorded on Thursday (Apprentice, Without a Trace, CSI, Survivor and The Simpsons). With all those shows, 4 others and 2 HD movies, my space is 53% free. All my recording settings are still there also.

One annoying thing about my box is that there is a constant very high frequency ringing. It's like my ears are ringing, but it's coming from the box. Sometimes when I know I don't have any programs to record, I have to unplug the box to enjoy the silence.

I'm on 17.16, too. BTW, my box is very quiet.

Mom always said I wuz born lucky - or was it lucky I was born - anyway - I love my MOTO DVR - I've had absolutely no problems (fingers crossed) and haven't exhibited any of the things the people in this forum has had. I've been trying to catch up on some recordings that have been there the last two weeks - nothing has dropped off or the box reset itself...

i've just jinxed myself - i'm a total fan and a convert!

I lost all my season pass info as well but the recordings were there after a reboot. I come from a dual tuner directivo and boy its tough to use this thing after Tivo for so many years.
I feel like I have steped back a few years now with this clunky interface and slow reponse as well as getting the long delay to respond to input from the remote and then it catches up all at once going through every button you tried thinking the remote died. How many people have had this problem. BTW the first unit had big problems, could not get half the channels and HBO the picture was bad. they installede another and it was fine. Motorola said that they were building these so fast that there could be quality issues. Thats not good!
I just hope they work on at least getting functions to work at the speed of Tivo, I guess I expected more from this unit.

I have been happy with the DVR, and have had no problems or glitches in using it. However, the picture quality stinks on non-HD programs. I thought the Comcast picture quality before was so-so, but the analog channels are hideous now, in my opinion...very grainy and noisy. I see no deterioration on the HD programs, but the graininess and noise on the others...horrible, at least on my 50" plasma. And it is not just on channels under 100, but on most others above 100...are these digital or analog? TV Land, for example, is hideous. I would be interested to know what others have experienced, and if there is anything to do about this other than wait for the next generation and hope for the best. I asked someone at Magnolia Hi-Fi (who installed my home theater system), and his experience was the same...he said he was told by a Comcast installer that this has been the experience of everyone for whom he has installed this unit. Is this the consensus?
thanks,
Robert

No, this is not the consensus. Digital channels (those > 100) generally look fine - no different than you'd find on satellite, or other digital cable boxes. The problem with the 6412 is the ANALOG channels (those < 100).

What type of connection are you using between the 6412 and your plasma?

In the current two-week time frame for listings, all three editions of Lord of the Rings are being aired. MSTV found only one of them using "Search."

(I know all of them are available, because I did the same search on TiVo)

Originally posted by mktgMaven
In the current two-week time frame for listings, all three editions of Lord of the Rings are being aired. MSTV found only one of them using "Search."

(I know all of them are available, because I did the same search on TiVo)

This is the result of a quirk in the software previously acknowledged by Shannon of MSFT. The other two are listed with titles beginning with "The" and will only be found by searches including "The". Painful.

I had set up series recording for "Boston Legal" but discovered that it didn't record last night. The program was still in the scheduled series list, but when I looked closely at the setup for next week I noticed that it was specified to be recorded only at 10:01. I suspect that was the weird start time of the episode I had used to set up the series, and the system ignored last night's episode if it had a start time of 10:00. I changed the option to have it record at any time. Not easy for me to test to be sure, but something else to look out for.

And, Boston Legal started at 10:02 last night.

Originally posted by wareagle
I had set up series recording for "Boston Legal" but discovered that it didn't record last night. The program was still in the scheduled series list, but when I looked closely at the setup for next week I noticed that it was specified to be recorded only at 10:01. I suspect that was the weird start time of the episode I had used to set up the series, and the system ignored last night's episode if it had a start time of 10:00. I changed the option to have it record at any time. Not easy for me to test to be sure, but something else to look out for. Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Look at this:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000527022421/

The audacity these networks have. What are they thinking? Who are they trying to help or hurt for that matter.

Originally posted by mktgMaven
In the current two-week time frame for listings, all three editions of Lord of the Rings are being aired. MSTV found only one of them using "Search."

(I know all of them are available, because I did the same search on TiVo) Previously discussed. Just ignore the "Search by Title" feature - completely useless, unless you really want to look under "The..." since that's where the "missing" LOTR shows are filed.

Instead, use the "Search by Actor or Keyword" - this is a "contains..." type of search, rather than a "starts with..." type of search.

Originally posted by jimre
No, this is not the consensus. Digital channels (those > 100) generally look fine - no different than you'd find on satellite, or other digital cable boxes. The problem with the 6412 is the ANALOG channels (those < 100).


The old HITS channels still look as hideous as they did 5 years ago. I don't know what channels you are watching.

I don't know what "the old HITS channels" are - so obviously I'm not watching those.

The HITS channels, as I call them, are the original set of digital cable channels, including such favorites as BBC America and Fox Sports World that appear to be compressed 12 channels to one 6MHz slot. You would think that after all this time they would have relaxed this compression, and in some cases they appear to have done so. However, many channels still look like they are compressed 12:1.

See www.hits.com for more info on what HITS is.

Now this is not specifically a 6412/MSTV problem, but it is incorrect to say there is a consensus that the >100 channels look "fine".

fezz15

You are in the wrong Forum! This Forum is for the MSFE based software-- it does not support the swap function. And it is only currently available in Washington State through Comcast. I think that you need to be in the Comcast 6412 w/iGuide Forum. Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=464986)

Originally posted by Al Shing
The HITS channels, as I call them, are the original set of digital cable channels, including such favorites as BBC America and Fox Sports World that appear to be compressed 12 channels to one 6MHz slot. You would think that after all this time they would have relaxed this compression, and in some cases they appear to have done so. However, many channels still look like they are compressed 12:1.

See www.hits.com for more info on what HITS is.

Now this is not specifically a 6412/MSTV problem, but it is incorrect to say there is a consensus that the >100 channels look "fine". Whatever. The question was about the 6412, and the digital channels on the 6412 look just as "FINE" as they always have.

Originally posted by Al Shing
... but it is incorrect to say there is a consensus that the >100 channels look "fine". So to rephrase - the consensus is that digital SD channels on the 6412 look NO DIFFERENT than they ever did. The original poster stated that since installing the 6412, his digital SD channels have gone from "so-so" to "hideous". That's the experience most of us have had with analog channels, but NOT with digital SD channels.

Nevertheless it’s a great point and I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one who thinks those channels look like crap.

Originally posted by jimre
Whatever. The question was about the 6412, and the digital channels on the 6412 look just as "FINE" as they always have.

I had set up series recording for "Boston Legal" but discovered that it didn't record last night. The program was still in the scheduled series list, but when I looked closely at the setup for next week I noticed that it was specified to be recorded only at 10:01. I suspect that was the weird start time of the episode I had used to set up the series, and the system ignored last night's episode if it had a start time of 10:00. I changed the option to have it record at any time. Not easy for me to test to be sure, but something else to look out for. A similar thing happened to me, but I noticed the problem in time to correct it. I've also set up series recording for "Boston Legal", and yesterday afternoon I noticed that the upcoming episode had disappeared from the Scheduled Recordings list. It was definitely on that list before yesterday, but for some reason the DVR removed it. So I manually turned on recording for that episode, and that worked.

Originally posted by jimre
So to rephrase - the consensus is that digital SD channels on the 6412 look NO DIFFERENT than they ever did. The original poster stated that since installing the 6412, his digital SD channels have gone from "so-so" to "hideous". That's the experience most of us have had with analog channels, but NOT with digital SD channels.

The OP sounded like a newby with the digital cable thing and didn't know if TV Land was digital or analog and if it really looked that hideous. The Comcast installer said the complaint was common with everyone who got this box.

The complaint is common with digital cable in general. The 6412 only passes on what it is sent, but garbage in, garbage out. This has been the consensus with digital cable since it came out.

Now Comcast should never be allowed to believe that those channels are "fine", no matter what the context. They look like crap, pure and simple. They need to take the measures to improve all the digital cable channels, otherwise they'll never eliminate the high levels of churn that is well documented.

Well by all means then, Al - feel free to continue confusing the crap out of folks by blurring legitimate issues specific to the 6412 (the whole purpose of this thread), with your long-simmering grudge about general Comcast issues which have NOTHING to do with the 6412.

Looks like I'm not going to be able to check in as often as I was in the past. Anyone want to work for me? :)

VOD scrolling issue - this is a bug that we've fixed and it is now being tested. Hopefully it will be rolled out to subscribers soon. This issue can be triggered by scrolling quickly using the either the page up/page down or the up/down buttons. The temporary work around is to use the arrow keys and not scroll too quickly.

Box shows disk has stuff on it but no recordings are listed - This appears to have been triggered by a change made by Comcast in the cable network. We are testing a fix for this. For now, to recover your scheduled show list, remove power (remove the power cord) from the box and plug the power back in. You will still have all of your recorded shows.

A few minutes after the box reboots, you will be able to view your recorded shows as before, delete them, etc. However, all of your scheduled recordings, including series requests, will be lost. You will need to re-schedule these shows. You can quickly schedule shows to record by pressing the record button once (single recording) or twice (series recording) from any program listing view. You can also do this by selecting the on-screen buttons in the info screen for shows you wish to record.

We have shared information with Comcast on steps that can be taken to avoid this.

Red light - No, we weren't listening to Roxanne during development. There is a hardware phase that was released and does not have the right ID in our software. This will be address in a future version of our software. This does NOT indicate a defective box.

NBA League Pass recording - Some of the guide data was incorrect leading to some PPV channels not being recordable. This data was recently fixed and you should now be able to schedule recordings for these games.

Shows appear in scheduled list but don't record - This is related to duplicate recording detection. If we detect a duplicate airing of a show, it will not be recorded. How do we know it's a duplicate? You guessed it, guide data. Well, actually it's a little more complicated than that. However, there are some cases where the guide data reuses something that causes us to mark it as duplicate. We are working on a solution for this and have several fixes tested, waiting for a green light.

...and in closing - Thanks for all the feedback. We're determined to make this the best cable DVR solution and software platform available. I'm erring on the side of being as up front as I can publicly about known issues. I'm not sure that our competition is doing the same but this product is like my baby so I'm willing to support the AVS Forum folks in my spare time so I can engage the end users directly.

Originally posted by jimre
Whatever. The question was about the 6412, and the digital channels on the 6412 look just as "FINE" as they always have.

So let me see if I understand this correctly. The analog channels (ALL channels under 100) ARE in fact worse on the 6412 than on my previous Comcast box, as I had thought. ALL channels above 100 are Digital...whether the quite-nice HD channels, or the lousy TV Land 163, and supposedly they are NOT any worse on the 6412...the good ones are just as good, and the hideous ones (163, 473 VH-1 Classics, for example) were just as hideous before... and perhaps I just didn't notice how bad they were before I got the 6412. If I may ask:
1. Has everyone experienced the poor quality in the analog channels, and is there any recourse other than hoping for a next generation box?
2. Has anyone noticed ANY difference in the non-HD digital channels over 100, such as those mentioned above, for better or worse, or is the consensus that the picture quality is unchanged?

This has been confusing as my switch to the 6412 coincided with replacing my Fujitsu 50" plasma 10US with a 30WS, and I was wondering if the analog channels looked worse for some reason on the 30US (which didn't make sense to me), and that I was seeing more artifacts on digital channels (blockiness in colors and shadow detail), and I was waiting for Magnolia Hi-Fi to come out and check things out when I received the 6412, which has now thrown me for a loop. Any insight is appreciated.
Robert

The analog channels (< 100) on the 6412 are a hundred times worse than ever before, with the local analog channels being the worst of a bad bunch. Why so bad? The major causes have been mentioned a couple times here already:
it's a dual-tuner box, so it has an internal splitter to feed both analog tuners. If you had marginal signal quality before, this alone will probably put you over the edge into the toilet.
When you watch analog channels on the 6412, you're seeing the picture AFTER the dvr has finished compressing it - not even close to the normal analog picture. Noise resulting from weak signal (first item above) gets run thru the MPEG compressor and the result is a wiggly, headache-inducing nightmare of a picture.As has also been pointed out - the only real workaround for this DVR-mangled analog PQ is to avoid the DVR. Watch analog channels using your TVs analog tuner instead, or the tuner in your VCR, Tivo, Replay, whatever. Just don't watch analog TV thru the 6412 DVR.

And no - the PQ of digital SD channels like TvLand is no different with the 6412 than with other Comcast boxes.

Hmm, I really didn't notice much of a hit on the sub-100 analog channels when compared to the 5100. I used to use a Sony studio tuner, ST-92TV and haven't put it on eBay it yet - perhaps I'll try hooking it up and see what it looks like. It is a top of the line NTSC tuner that I used with my CRT FP for years.

For the past two days at around 10:30am I have been only able to record one station and not change channels. For example, if I start watching Showtime, then press REC, I can't change channels without stopping the recording. I'm sure nothing else is recording. If I press MY DVR, only the Showtime channel is recording.

The same situation occurred yesterday at the same time. Last night, however, I had no problems recording two shows. HD is 75% full.

Any one else?


Art

Originally posted by dr pinot

1. Has everyone experienced the poor quality in the analog channels, and is there any recourse other than hoping for a next generation box?


Comcast says this will be fixed when digital simulcast of the analogs begins sometime next year. Then just record the digital version of the analog channel. Whether or not this will truly be an improvement remains to be seen. But it sounds like they are headed in the right direction on this.

I think I fixed the problem of only being able to record one channel and not being able to watch anything else without stopping the recording. See above post. I noticed a few interesting things.

a) When recording one channel (Showtime), I couldn't change channels without canceling the recording. I could, however, change the channel to 104 but then I was stuck there. "MY DVR" would still show that I was taping "Showtime," and not 104. Once on 104, if I wanted to change channels I had to "Cancel Recording" If I did this, it stopped recording "Showtime."

b) When I turned off the box and turned it back on, it always changed the channel to 104 no matter what it was on previously.

c) I noticed that the HD usage was at 75%, which seemed high to me.

d) Unplugged box. Plugged back in. Everything worked again. HD usage went down to 58%, box came back on on another channel other than 104, and I could again record two shows at once or watch one while recording another.

What happened?

I kinda like the bad picture on the analog local stations.....makes the comparison
to the HD channels even more impressive to my non-HDTV owning friends.....;)

I want to put two 6412s in my family room, but after reading through this thread, I have not seen anyone mention if its possible to assign the remotes different codes so that they both don't respond to the same remote.

If this isn't a possibility, it seems like a huge oversight, especially since the HD space is so limited.

Originally posted by Al Shing
Comcast says this will be fixed when digital simulcast of the analogs begins sometime next year. Then just record the digital version of the analog channel. Whether or not this will truly be an improvement remains to be seen. But it sounds like they are headed in the right direction on this.

But will this do anything to improve the horrible quality of the channels over 100 (such as TV LAnd 163, Sci-Fi, IFC, Turner Classic Movies, etc.) that I believe you referred to as the HITS lineup? Will we be stuck with lousy PQ since these are already digital? Anyone have any experience with DirectTV re: their HD line up and picture quality and their HD DVR?
Thanks.
Robert

I have been happy with the DVR, and have had no problems or glitches in using it. However, the picture quality stinks on non-HD programs. I thought the Comcast picture quality before was so-so, but the analog channels are hideous now, in my opinion...very grainy and noisy. I see no deterioration on the HD programs, but the graininess and noise on the others...horrible, at least on my 50" plasma. And it is not just on channels under 100, but on most others above 100...are these digital or analog? TV Land, for example, is hideous. I would be interested to know what others have experienced, and if there is anything to do about this other than wait for the next generation and hope for the best. I asked someone at Magnolia Hi-Fi (who installed my home theater system), and his experience was the same...he said he was told by a Comcast installer that this has been the experience of everyone for whom he has installed this unit. Is this the consensus?

It's not the installers fault. It's the box itself. The 6412 converts the analog signal to MPEG format and it's a lossy compression/conversation.

There's no fix for it. Run a splitter from the wall and a analog cable to your set and then the 6412. Watch throguh different fixes. It's an inelegant solution, and obviously you can't record since you've bypassed the DVR.

That being said, there should not be as much of an issue with the actual digital channels. Should be a bit smoother.

GIVE ME MY CABLECARD HD TIVO ALREADY!!!!!!

But will this do anything to improve the horrible quality of the channels over 100 (such as TV LAnd 163, Sci-Fi, IFC, Turner Classic Movies, etc.) that I believe you referred to as the HITS lineup? Will we be stuck with lousy PQ since these are already digital? Anyone have any experience with DirectTV re: their HD line up and picture quality and their HD DVR?

DirecTV 's picture is better than Comcast's since they lightened up on compression (thanks, extra sats!). No comparsion.

Gotta have Comcast to watch the local sports, though :(

And Comcast's pool boys at the FCC have nicely blocked the local HD feed from sats. That's *starting* to go away, no thanks to those 2 bullies. But not there yet.

I #@$@#% hate Comcast. Damn me for being a sports fan and not being close enough to a DSL hub :(

Originally posted by artshotwell
These are symptomatic of trying to record two programs and watch a third live. There is an overlap when one recording ends at 10 and another starts at 10. The first recording will run until 1 or 2 mins after. The second recording will start a minute or so early. Thus taking both tuners for consecutive programs. Not sure what happens if they're both on the same channel.

The same thing happens if both shows that you're trying to record are on the same channel and it is quite annoying. For example last week I was recording Good Eats at 10 and 10:30 on the Food Network and watching Southpark and then Drawn Together on Comedy Central. This worked fine while I was watching Southpark but when Drawn Together was about to start both tuners were busy recording the same thing on the Food Network. Really annoying. This week it wasn't a problem because the second Good Eats was something that played recently so I just cancelled the recording.

That brings up another gripe though. The box doesn't seem to do a good job of determining if it has already recorded an episode or not. This has happened with both Good Eats and Fifth Gear (on Speed). In trying to catch up with older episodes I set up the box to record all showing at all times on those channels. Unfortunately this results in scheduled recordings of the same episode 2 or more times. The description of the episode is exactly the same so I'd think that there would be some way to only record it once. Maybe not though. Or am I just missing an obvious way around this.

In general I am very happy with the box but these little things are annoying and really seem like they shouldn't be things that we have to deal with.

My DVR joined the club and lost its recording lists this morning. Thanks to the postings here, I knew to just power the unit off and back on to get the recorded list back, then wait a bit longer for the guide to reload so I could reconstruct the scheduled list. Certainly better than losing the recordings, but still a pain.

Originally posted by wareagle
My DVR joined the club and lost its recording lists this morning. Thanks to the postings here, I knew to just power the unit off and back on to get the recorded list back, then wait a bit longer for the guide to reload so I could reconstruct the scheduled list. Certainly better than losing the recordings, but still a pain.
Mine lost it's list, too. Interesting that it didn't happen to everyone at the same time or even the same day. I wonder if a software update was sent or if this will just happen every now and then forever.

First, Shannon said a couple days ago that this is a known issue, and that they are working with Comcast to solve it-- my guess it will be sooner than later.

Secondly, when I reported my "loses" a couple weeks ago, I posted that I was on Guide build 17.16 (243785) and asked for others to report back their software version and build number-- no one did. Shannon said this issue was a Comcast problem so I suspect that the software build is not the issue

Originally posted by artshotwell
Mine lost it's list, too. Interesting that it didn't happen to everyone at the same time or even the same day. I wonder if a software update was sent or if this will just happen every now and then forever.

Shannon said it was triggered by a Comcast change, and they were testing a fix for it. The sooner the better.

Originally posted by burger23
First, Shannon said a couple days ago that this is a known issue, and that they are working with Comcast to solve it-- my guess it will be sooner than later.

Secondly, when I reported my "loses" a couple weeks ago, I posted that I was on Guide build 17.16 (243785) and asked for others to report back their software version and build number-- no one did. Shannon said this issue was a Comcast problem so I suspect that the software build is not the issue

I reported my build as 17.16 & 24378S at that time, when I had no problem, and it's the same now after experiencing the problem.

Sorry, wareagle. You did indeed replay- I forgot. Anyway, we can know safely say it is not a software issue

After I temporarily lost my recordings today, I discovered that I couldn't watch any of them without entering the password to unlock them. Since we no longer have kids in the house, nothing was ever set up to require an unlock except for purchases (to prevent accidental selection). No programs I've recorded since the restoration require the password, so apparently something just caused all the recorded programs to be marked as restricted.

OK, I know I'm just piling on here... but our 6412 joined the crash club last night and lost all of its recordings. After saying a few unkind words about software and bugs, I remembered the "unplug" tip and restored my recordings. Not too much of a hassle.

Then, however, the pain began. Searching for and reconstructing all our season passes is a ridiculously slow process, and should be unnecessary. I know we are, in effect, beta testers of the software, and I guess I'd feel better about it if they just called us that. In any event, the WAF (wife acceptance factor) went down a couple notches during the re-programming process.

Shannon,

Any possibility in the future (I'm guessing probably not though, unfortunately) that you may be able to plug a PC into the USB port to make a backup file of the scheduled recordings cache? That way, if this lost recording debacle happens again, at least it would be easy to restore your schedules and season passes.

Shannon, it appears, based on lack of response, that there is no way to address the remotes so you can control 2 6412 boxes in the same location with different remotes. Can you tell us if there are any plans to add this capability at some point, and if so, when?

Shannon, it appears, based on lack of response, that there is no way to address the remotes so you can control 2 6412 boxes in the same location with different remotes. Can you tell us if there are any plans to add this capability at some point, and if so, when?

Although I am not a fan of this, you could try what some have done with their ReplayTVs. Turn on box on and on box off. Don't know if this works, but theoretically, commands will not be processed by the "off" box. To switch to the other box send a power command. This should then switch the on box off and the off box on. A real kludge, but might work.

My 6412 was installed a few weeks ago, and I have to say for the most part I'm very happy with it. I haven't had the same decrease in picture quality that others are reporting, in fact my picture seems much sharper than my old SD digital box. (I wonder if that is affected by quality of the cable-network hardware in their area?)

There are a few places where it suffers from comparison with my ReplayTV, mostly in the area of menus. The biggest thing that irks me repeatedly is the default record settings. With the RTV there are, naturally, default record settings, but I can change those defaults, then every recording I set starts with those settings.

I can't change the default record settings on the 6412. I wind up making the same changes for every show I record. And the menu screen for setting options is so kludgy it just piles on the irritation.

Are these losses due to "crashes" of some kind or are they due to the unit powering off on its own. I say on its own because mine ;owered off at nine this am while watching the news, came back ok with a remote power up. Is there some way to KNOW whether I had a power glitch or it was the fault of the 6412??? Will a cheap (20 t0 30 $ range) UPS resolve this??

Originally posted by nodrog2
Are these losses due to "crashes" of some kind or are they due to the unit powering off on its own. I say on its own because mine ;owered off at nine this am while watching the news, came back ok with a remote power up. Is there some way to KNOW whether I had a power glitch or it was the fault of the 6412??? Will a cheap (20 t0 30 $ range) UPS resolve this??

Whatever it is isn't caused by a general power loss. I have a VCR plugged into the same source, and it would lose it's clock setting with the briefest power loss -- and it didn't. I doubt there's anything we can do to prevent it until MS releases the fix that Shannon said they were working on.

Shannon's reply from 12/13:

Box shows disk has stuff on it but no recordings are listed - This appears to have been triggered by a change made by Comcast in the cable network. We are testing a fix for this...We have shared information with Comcast on steps that can be taken to avoid this.

In the spirit of this thread, my issues so far have been (and I've had the DVR since 11/19):

1) 4 times loss of scheduled shows/season pass (and each time this happened after I had to power cycle - some from a simple off/on and others through unplugging)

1a) 3 of those times the already recorded shows lose their metadata and I only get back the show title, date/time of the recording, they didn't compile into "folders" (for same show) and one time it just erased everything.

1b) one of those times all the recorded shows when attempting to play them came back with an error and would not play - after about 4 hours they were playable once more.

1c) all 4 of those times the guide data was lost as well

2) The interface is not quite what I would call friendly, on some menus I can scroll through the end to the beginning again or scroll up through the beginning through the end and other menus don't.

When searching for a title, and then selecting it, clicking the "last" on-screen button takes you to a blank search - very annoying. This should take you back to where you left the search screen and the search that was in-progress. Same goes for searching by day/time or any other screen. Last should take you back to the same state of the previous screen.

Speaking of the on-screen last button - this is unfriendly compared to a Tivo's menu where pressing right takes you to the next screen and left takes you to the prior screen (not prior function). That method is much more friendly and logical in UI layout.

3) Buffer only runs when you are watching that channel. This is annoying from my previous experience with a Tivo where the buffer is always recording at least the prior 30 mins. This is helpful when sometimes I am watching a recorded show and then when finished I jump back to live tv and there's a show on (the channel that it was on when I started to watch the recorded show) that I decide I want to record only I can't since there is no prior buffer.

4) 2 shows recording while watching one of (time slipped) them ends up with both having very badly artifacted pictures (have only done this with HD channels so I don't know if the same happens with analog or SD).

5) lock up in On-Demand menu. This has happened numerous times while scrolling through the On-Demand menus. (I think Shannon mentioned this was being fixed)

6) DayUp/Down and then clicking left takes the guide back to previous day instead of back 1/2 hour in the guide.

7) I've had multiple "spontaneous reboots" after the DVR locks up - sometimes it will lose guide data, sometimes not.

8) I saw somewhere in this thread that mentioned recording new and getting multiple recordings for that exact episode had something to do with the guide data used. C'mon - that's a bad explanation. These shows all have the same episode title. I saw in one of Shannon's post they were fixing a bug for not recording a show marked as a duplicate - but I've never had that experience. Mine always wants to record every episode regardless of whether I chose new only or new and rerun. My workaround was to limit it to the time of day, but that doesn't work for abc/nbc and their mess with the schedule nonsense or for other channels that show an episode twice in one week on different days at the same time. This should be way more robust.

9) User gripe - I find the 1-2 minutes of recorded show buffering at the beginning and end of a show to be very annoying.


Ok, there's my list. My feelings about this DVR (after 1 month usage) are that if it weren't for the HD recording capability I would have returned it and went back to just using my Tivo. To be honest, I still use my Tivo - I do all the analog channels w/o HD equivalents with it since it records in better quality for these and I never have to second guess whether or not it will lose all its settings/recordings.

Also, my Tivo is just much more enjoyable to use - the 6412's menu is clunky at best, the remote leaves everything to be desired (I switched to a Harmony 680 2 days after getting this DVR), and the instability of the system is very annoying. I am very surprised that Comcast thought this was customer ready as I started running into actual issues 24hrs into having this DVR and it seems that a fair amount of people on this forum did as well. I can't say that I put much blame on any one company - the software bugs are MSFT's, the clunky UI undoubtedly is what Comcast requested, the system rebooting spontaneously I would imagine rests in the hardware/firmware. I read in one of the posts that quality was lacking due to speed of production so that is just a terrible excuse in my opinion - this should have been delayed a month or two for ramp up and bug killing.

Anyways, that's just my $0.02, YMMV. I'm looking forward to some fixes, but I am also looking forward to a cablecard HD Tivo.

MysticVenom

Boy, sure sounds like you are having problems. You might consider another box :-)

I continue to have very few problems; no reboots (well, I had one in the time I have had the 6412 -4 to 6 weeks), only occasional pixelation-- and it always goes away after a few minutes. The navigation system is a little awkward-- but managebale. All in all, we are very happy and would not give it back-- and still use the two RePlays for archiving shows over the home network.

When I'm watching a playback and the clock hits an hour mark (XX:00) I continue to have the box switch over to live TV. I get dumped out of the playback. (I've reported this before. Reporting it, apparently doesn't stop it from happening.)

It's a royal pain.

Just had for the first time the total loss of the listings of the recorded shows. Power cycled and the list came back--but the groupings are gone.

After using this box for a while, I have to say that my main gripe is still the loud hard-drive. I've tried swapping my box multiple times, but they're all equally loud and painful. The design is just plain bad; The hard-drive is at the front of the box, on the top, right next to an open vent. Tivo's are much much quieter.

Besides that, I dislike the menu just like everyone else. The navigation is non-intuitive and most of the time I just exit out of the menu completely to go back a screen because often hitting Last will exit the guide and then switch channels, which also loses whatever buffer you had. I find hitting Exit and starting all over to be the only obvious way to navigate, but it's very frustrating, especially since I don't even have a My DVR button.

It's also a little sad that everyone that got their box after the first couple of weeks got a box with a non-functional Record LED and without a DVR remote. Comcast ran out of these remotes in less than two weeks and, even now, estimates another six weeks minimum to get some back in stock. This, to me, is unacceptable. It seems obvious to simply order one remote per box, but they didn't do this and now a lot of us are stuck without some useful buttons.

As for recordings, the box has only failed to record one show completely. It recorded half of it instead of all of it. Unfortunately, one show is all it takes and my wife and I now tape everything we care about on VHS as well. Like some others, if it wasn't for the HD, I'd have gotten rid of the box the first day or two and, even with the HD, it probably won't last another week in my house.

Originally posted by burger23
MysticVenom

Boy, sure sounds like you are having problems. You might consider another box :-)

I

I've thought about doing that, but then I also thought that if they are in overtime mode getting these things built then it probably isn't going to be much better. My real gripe is that I'm paying a monthly chg for the box and it works like this. If it was $0-5/month for the box I don't think I'd mind. At the current rate it's entirely unacceptable. I can buy a second Tivo for $100 and pay a monthly $6 more for it and I know that I won't have any trouble.

Originally posted by TayX
After using this box for a while, I have to say that my main gripe is still the loud hard-drive. I've tried swapping my box multiple times, but they're all equally loud and painful. The design is just plain bad; The hard-drive is at the front of the box, on the top, right next to an open vent. Tivo's are much much quieter.

I

Actually I think the design isn't bad as the HDD is most likely a 7200rpm and is generating heat that needs to dissipate much in the same way a computer has a lot of fans in it to get the heat out (there's pretty much nowhere that they could've put it that you aren't going to hear it). And since this is comcast, I can just about guarantee its the cheapest drive available (just like any brand box computer). My Tivo is fairly quiet but it has a 5400rpm drive as they didn't want to generate all the heat (and to keep the price down). I added a second drive to it and its still pretty quiet (but I also bought a nice 2nd drive). Too bad we don't have the option with these. Problem would be easily solvable with a nice liquid bearing drive.

Actually, that makes another gripe for me. Since the drive space is so limited for these things, they should've given us the option to purchase the unit and then we could mod them (add more drives).

I'm going to give it a couple more months at a minimum to see what they do. If Comcast sits on their laurels and doesn't get improvements out to us, I'll probably cancel it. If I start to see some firmware/software upgrades then I will keep it around.

So, I'll throw my 2 cents in: I haven't had the problems you all are reporting here. Never, far as I can tell, a spontaneous reboot. I did lose the recorded shows list and schedule list. And, never been kicked out to live while watching a recording.

And, my unit is very quiet. I can't even tell it's on unless I put my ear right next to it. Unlike my Sony HD DirecTV receiver, which always had a fan running. It was quiet, but I always new it was running.

My 6412 doesn't seem too noisy - at least not compared to my ReplayTV, which sits right next to it, and completely drowns out any sound the 6412 might be making. That's why both of them are in an enclosed cabinet...

Can someone give me a quickie tutorial on getting to the diagnostic menu the techs use with the 6412? I'm doing some new in-house cable wiring and want to use it to check signal strength.

Also, for HD channels, I know you either get a perfect signal or nothing / pixellation / dropouts. Does anyone know what the critical signal strength is for the 6412's tuners? Thanks.

drbenson
1. Make sure TV is ON
2. Using cable remote, power box off.
3. Using cable remote, immediately (1-2 seconds) press OK/SELECT

Use scroll arrows to navigate menu

Thanks, Burger- what do you show for signal strength when HD is working perfectly for you?

I have never paid any attention to these signals since I am happy with the box's perforance. INBAND Tuner 1 shows SNR: 34.9 dB (GOOD), AGC: 76% (FAIR) while TUNER 2 shows SNR: 33.3 dB (GOOD) and AGC: 74% (FAIR).

I have no idea on what this means-- but there's the info :-)

Wonderful. Thanks. Saves me a truck roll or an expensive piece of diagnostic equipment if things go awry.

Got my 6412 with MSTV here in Tacoma a couple weeks ago, and only have a couple of gripes so far. First, and most annoying, is the lack of a proper DVR remote. More than that, the fact that Comcast keeps saying "Tough Luck!". In otherwords, they don't know when and if they will get the correct remotes in, and can't notify me when and if they do. So I have to keep bugging them every couple weeks I guess. Their already dismal customer support has reached a new low in my eyes.
The other thing that bugs me, being a former TiVo user, is the fact that if you go to watch a recorded show, when you come back to live TV, the buffer is reset. What I used to do with Tivo was if I came across a show I wanted to watch, but hadn't scheduled to record, I would go into the recorded show list and watch a couple episodes of Sealab or Aqua Teen. Then when I came back to live TV, I would just rewind that 20 minutes or so and be able to FF through the commercials. With the 6412, I can't do this without recording the show. Minor annoyance, maybe, but does anyone know why this is or if there are plans to fix it?

We found the Comcast DVR remote that ships with the 6412 (with My DVR and On Demand buttons) to not be that great. It seems underpowered, and I wasn't terribly happy with its operation.

We recently switched to a Harmony 680 universal "internet powered" remote. Flawless and easy transition, and outstanding remote with macro-style performance. In addition, the power is great, and it controls the 6412 much better than the Comcast remote ever did...

Not MSFT specific, I suppose, but definitely a good upgrade. Incidentally -- the 6412 programs are all available online from Harmony, so you don't need to "program" anything... just select and download into the remote.

I have to agree. We have the Harmony H659 and it works better with the 6412 than the original 6412 remote does.

And I am using the new Harmony 676 (better key placement than the 688). A superb piece of equipment with incredible customer support

Originally posted by TayX
After using this box for a while, I have to say that my main gripe is still the loud hard-drive. I've tried swapping my box multiple times, but they're all equally loud and painful. The design is just plain bad; The hard-drive is at the front of the box, on the top, right next to an open vent. Tivo's are much much quieter.

Besides that, I dislike the menu just like everyone else. The navigation is non-intuitive and most of the time I just exit out of the menu completely to go back a screen because often hitting Last will exit the guide and then switch channels, which also loses whatever buffer you had. I find hitting Exit and starting all over to be the only obvious way to navigate, but it's very frustrating, especially since I don't even have a My DVR button.

It's also a little sad that everyone that got their box after the first couple of weeks got a box with a non-functional Record LED and without a DVR remote. Comcast ran out of these remotes in less than two weeks and, even now, estimates another six weeks minimum to get some back in stock. This, to me, is unacceptable. It seems obvious to simply order one remote per box, but they didn't do this and now a lot of us are stuck without some useful buttons.

As for recordings, the box has only failed to record one show completely. It recorded half of it instead of all of it. Unfortunately, one show is all it takes and my wife and I now tape everything we care about on VHS as well. Like some others, if it wasn't for the HD, I'd have gotten rid of the box the first day or two and, even with the HD, it probably won't last another week in my house.
My 6412 is sitting on an open shelf above the plasma display and below a quartz clock on the wall. The second hand ticking of the clock makes more noise than the hard drive in the 6412, so I guess I can't complain about that.

As far as the menu system goes, it's a great improvement over the previous Comcast offering, so again, the trend is in the right direction even if things aren't perfect yet.

Regarding the remotes, I was one of the lucky ones that got a remote with the unit when it was delivered, but quickly replaced it with a Harmony remote which works better anyway. I do agree it was poor planning on someone's part to ship a bunch of 6412's to folks without the remotes in the first place. I guess in today's "just in time" world, that's the price of being an early adopter. Cheers!:D

Is the Microsoft 6412 software being provided in Oregon, or just in Washington for the trial?

My hard drive makes a lot of "access-clicking" when I'm fast forwarding at FF3 or FF4, but other than that I can't complain. HD noise while fast forwarding is to be expected, I suppose. The 6412 is *MUCH* quieter than my Xbox (which has a fan and hard drive), and I would guess about the same loudness as our Tivo (my it rest in peace).

No noise complaints here.

The Harmony remote looks pretty nice but $150 is a little (a lot) more than I want to spend. Anyone tried the Philips/Magnavox PMDVR8? It says its a learning remote with DVR specific buttons, and its only around $20. The reviews say it works well with Tivo and DirectTV, but since the 6412 is a fairly new box, has anyone tried it?

Oh, and while we're on the subject of remotes, if anyone has upgraded to a Harmony remote, and has the correct DVR remote for the 6412 left over, I would love to trade it for my non-DVR specific Comcast remote. I'm sure the cable company would never know, and I'd be willing to pay a nominal fee for your trouble.

I have successfully setup my radio shack 15-1994 remote to run the dvr. I used a jp1 cable and IR.exe to set it up, works well. I have it set to run my mits rp tv, hk avr-525 and panasonic dvd player. I could share the ir setup if anyone is interested.

My hard drive noise is quite noticeable from my unit. It clicks away quite a bit. Mostly noticeable while changing channels.

Originally posted by platbr
My hard drive makes a lot of "access-clicking" when I'm fast forwarding at FF3 or FF4, but other than that I can't complain. HD noise while fast forwarding is to be expected, I suppose. The 6412 is *MUCH* quieter than my Xbox (which has a fan and hard drive), and I would guess about the same loudness as our Tivo (my it rest in peace).

No noise complaints here.

It's interesting; I've heard several people claim that their hard-drive doesn't make much noise and a few others like me that claim their hard-drives are super-noisy. Is there really that much of a difference between batches of the box or am I just pickier than other people? :)

I've tried a few different boxes with different types of hard-drives in each and I can/could hear just about any of them from a good 40-feet away if the TV was off (in an open area) and even over a computer nearby; The HD goes constantly whether the box is on or not, recording or not. I do agree that while fast-forwarding, etc., noise is perfectly acceptable, but I can hear the HD over the shows I'm watching. Maybe I should pay a visit to someone who has a quiet one and see if it's just me or not. :)

I noticed a bug in Comcast's OnDemand here in Kitsap with the 6412.

If you select Music, then Havoc channel, it displays a long list of videos. Trying to scroll up or page down causes a 30-60 second timeout, at which point the 6412 tells me OnDemand is temporarily unavailable.

It looks a lot like a network timeout, probably caused by the list of video's on Havoc being so long.

Originally posted by TayX
It's interesting; I've heard several people claim that their hard-drive doesn't make much noise and a few others like me that claim their hard-drives are super-noisy. Is there really that much of a difference between batches of the box or am I just pickier than other people? :)

I've tried a few different boxes with different types of hard-drives in each and I can/could hear just about any of them from a good 40-feet away if the TV was off (in an open area) and even over a computer nearby; The HD goes constantly whether the box is on or not, recording or not. I do agree that while fast-forwarding, etc., noise is perfectly acceptable, but I can hear the HD over the shows I'm watching. Maybe I should pay a visit to someone who has a quiet one and see if it's just me or not. :) Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

I don't think you are pickier. You must have bad luck or really good hearing. :D I know the 6412 uses Maxtor and Seagate. I have the Seagate and it is very quiet. Supposedly the Seagate should be noisy and the Maxtor should be the quieter of the two. Go figure.

I guess you just need to keep swapping until you get a quiet one. Maybe wait a bit longer so that your CO can get a new batch in.

I have a Sony AV-3000 Remote and it works really great for the 6412. I had to teach it a few commands (favorites, My DVR), but the rest are preset if you use the Motorola Digital Cable Box codes. Overall the Sony is a great remote, but is a little bulky if you have small hands. Also, use rechargables - battery life sucks.

A good site for remote info:
http://www.remotecentral.com/index.html

Originally posted by analog8
I noticed a bug in Comcast's OnDemand here in Kitsap with the 6412.

If you select Music, then Havoc channel, it displays a long list of videos. Trying to scroll up or page down causes a 30-60 second timeout, at which point the 6412 tells me OnDemand is temporarily unavailable.

It looks a lot like a network timeout, probably caused by the list of video's on Havoc being so long.

This has happened to me every once in a while when trying to watch the NFL replays from on demand. I tried to watch one this morning and the first time I tried it the box stopped responding and then gave me the unavailable message. I tried it again less than a minute later and it worked fine. :confused: Its happened in the past too and doesn't seem to be repeatable. One time it locked up bad enough that all the guide and DVR data dissappeared. About a minute or 2 later it was all back though.

I was recording West Wing and watching the DVR file of it just now, and at 9:30 a recording of South Park started. This set off a terrible case of pixellation in the West Wing recording. I stopped the West Wing recording and am watching it live with no deterioration. Perhaps the system has difficulty doing everything required to process and put two sets of data on disk simultaneously.

Got a question, has anyone here received a 6412 box that actually has a RF Cable out since with the component video and Analog audio going to my Plasma display, there isn't really another way to hook up my VCR as the VCR has the LD going to the Composite Video/Audio on the SVHS VCR.

Originally posted by Almighty1
Got a question, has anyone here received a 6412 box that actually has a RF Cable out since with the component video and Analog audio going to my Plasma display, there isn't really another way to hook up my VCR as the VCR has the LD going to the Composite Video/Audio on the SVHS VCR.
You might try getting "Y" adapters for the audio and using composit into the VCR.

Originally posted by kwkarth
You might try getting "Y" adapters for the audio and using composit into the VCR.

Already thought about that but my VCR already has the LD player taking the audio inputs. It's weird that in the booklet Comcast gives with the 6412, it says to connect the VCR to the cable out but the 6412 is the only box in the DCT I've ever seen that is missing the RF Coax out.

I won't even ask why on earth you still have a laserdisk player. But why not just use your A/V receiver as a "video switcher" to allow multiple inputs into your VCR? Most receivers have both VCR input & output jacks just for this purpose.

or, if you don't have a composite input ->

use "Y" adapters and a channel modulator.

Rich

Originally posted by jimre
I won't even ask why on earth you still have a laserdisk player.

Well, some movies are not yet out on DVD. Hopefully Sony buying MGM will get "The Shoes of the Fisherman" and "The Wind and the Lion" out on DVD, but until then, I have to watch them on LD (I did record them to DVD+R, but the movies are long so you need the 3-hour mode and quality suffers a bit).

Also, the only way to watch Star Wars Episodes IV-VI in both their original format and Special Edition format is LD (again, unless you burn them to DVD+R).

Originally posted by jimre
I won't even ask why on earth you still have a laserdisk player. But why not just use your A/V receiver as a "video switcher" to allow multiple inputs into your VCR? Most receivers have both VCR input & output jacks just for this purpose.

I still have a large collection of LD's and Karaoke which are only on LD's as Nausicaa commented earlier. I guess I have a lot of Hong Kong stuff that isn't out on DVD's yet.

As for AV Receiver, I don't use a receiver but rather a high-end Pre-amp while it does have all the inputs, it's a hassle to get cables back there. A cable box is supposed to have the RF out for the purpose of connecting things that don't have a component input as well.

Originally posted by boykster
or, if you don't have a composite input ->

use "Y" adapters and a channel modulator.

Rich

I thought about that one. How well does the channel modulators work and will it be as good as the RF outs that they had on the 5100/6200s?

Just noticed something about modulators, all the RF modulators I saw online takes in a Stereo Audio Signal using the L/R RCA input but the RF output is mono. Seems like only the discontinued Radio Shack 15-2525 can output in stereo on the RF side.

Originally posted by Almighty1
Just noticed something about modulators, all the RF modulators I saw online takes in a Stereo Audio Signal using the L/R RCA input but the RF output is mono. Seems like only the discontinued Radio Shack 15-2525 can output in stereo on the RF side.

while kind of OT - if you want stereo modulators, check out channelplus or channelvision (to get stereo output, you pay for it - more expensive than mono modulators). both have multiple models that will take rca video/audio inputs and modulate to a desired channel. you can see different types/models on http://www.smarthome.com

you also might find more modulator info here in the 'home integration and distribution' forum

Originally posted by brente
while kind of OT - if you want stereo modulators, check out channelplus or channelvision (to get stereo output, you pay for it - more expensive than mono modulators). both have multiple models that will take rca video/audio inputs and modulate to a desired channel. you can see different types/models on http://www.smarthome.com

you also might find more modulator info here in the 'home integration and distribution' forum

Thanks for the information. Now I know why you said it's more expensive. It seems to be a lot more expensive. The Radio Shack one is $34.99 and one store still has it and it does do Stereo RF output on channel 3 or 4. It's just weird that Motorola decided to take out the RF Output on the 6412 as I can see from the pictures on their site as well as the 6412's manual while the 6208 and all model numbers before that has the RF output.

SORRY - MORE OT

Yeah,

the modulator question is a funny one....GOOD ones, channel plus / channel vision / etc are fairly expensive for mono modulators and darn expensive for MTS stereo ones.

Whey these boxes don't have em? dunno....I guess the figure if you're using a HD DVR, then they expect you won't be using the rf hookup.

-- way OT

What exactly does DNALOGIC do? I work in bio/chem-informatics...

--

END OT

Rich

Rich,

I guess the Comcast DVR Booklet needs updating because they tell you to record to the VCR using the Cable/VCR out which would mean the RF out. I thought there were some people who were getting the DVR that doesn't even have a HD capable tv but they just want the DVR and I think Comcast atleast here in Northern California only offers the 6412 box. I don't know for sure but was the RF out on the other DCT's actually mono or stereo?

DNALOGIC is a ISP and Internet consulting company. I'm a Astrophysicist.

Originally posted by Almighty1
...It's just weird that Motorola decided to take out the RF Output on the 6412 as I can see from the pictures on their site as well as the 6412's manual while the 6208 and all model numbers before that has the RF output.
The tech that came out to our house explained to me that since the 6412 has two tuners, the signal has to be split while preserving sufficient signal for each internal digital tuner. The 6208 and its predecessors only had a single tuner, allowing enough signal left over to have a "bypass".

I guess motorola decided to forego the RF "bypass" in lieu of adding a signal amplifier inside the box to avoid having an horrific bypass signal. I do remember that it was already much worse coming out of the 5100 HD digital box than out of a std digital box. The tech gave me a couple 1GHz splitters so I could pre-split the signal before running it into the 6412. That seems to be working much better than the RF out of the 5100.

Tim

Originally posted by tluxon
The tech that came out to our house explained to me that since the 6412 has two tuners, the signal has to be split while preserving sufficient signal for each internal digital tuner. The 6208 and its predecessors only had a single tuner, allowing enough signal left over to have a "bypass".

I guess motorola decided to forego the RF "bypass" in lieu of adding a signal amplifier inside the box to avoid having an horrific bypass signal. I do remember that it was already much worse coming out of the 5100 HD digital box than out of a std digital box. The tech gave me a couple 1GHz splitters so I could pre-split the signal before running it into the 6412. That seems to be working much better than the RF out of the 5100.

Tim

That explains it better. The splitter won't work for me since what I plan to do is that my VCR followed by a DVD Recorder will be used to save recordings on the 6412 so that for things I want to keep, I'll record it to DVD or SuperVHS to clear up space on the HD so the only option is to get a Stereo RF Modulator at Radio Shack for $34.99 (the other RF Modulators are all mono out on the RF), AR 6 feet SVideo/Audio cables $20 and then two Y splitter cables which will be another $25 or so making it $80 just to get a RF output. It's strange that Comcast doesn't have these available to give to customers with VCR's.

If you remove the two screws on the silver box covering all the 75 Ohm inputs and outputs on the back of the 6412 you will see the bypass output that can be activated in the 6412s settings.

thx,
vidkidd

Originally posted by vidkidd
If you remove the two screws on the silver box covering all the 75 Ohm inputs and outputs on the back of the 6412 you will see the bypass output that can be activated in the 6412s settings.

Is that a bypass (splitting the cable RF input) or RF modulated output from the box?

I've seen references from other areas of the country to firmware version 9.12 for the 6412. Mine shows version 9.09, so are we behind the curve with ours? One of the references indicates that dual tuner capability was enabled by version 9.11, so I don't know how reliable these reports are.

Originally posted by vidkidd
If you remove the two screws on the silver box covering all the 75 Ohm inputs and outputs on the back of the 6412 you will see the bypass output that can be activated in the 6412s settings.

thx,
vidkidd

I would do that and already tried that route and not sure how to jumper the wires since there are 4 RF connectors there. All of them say RF In. I have the 6200's RF Bypass module and the RF connectors are relocated. 6412s bypass in the settings is not the same as RF output. the bypass setting just allows one to turn off the box and then you can change the channels on devices behind the box connected to the RF. The RF Feature is disabled on the current firmware regardless of how you set the settings.

If this has been discussed, pardon me.

Audio on KOMO-HD (104) seems to constantly modulate from normal to low and back to normal. Channel up and down does not seem to solve this problem. No other HD channel exhibits this annoying feature. I have tried changing audio settings on the box, but to no avail. The problem is there, regardless of whether I am using the TV speakers or my AVR. I did not have this problem with a 5100 before the 6412.

I don't believe this occurs with KOMO-HD's OTA broadcast.

Anyone else experiencing this? Do I have a bad 6412?

Your speculations are solicited!! TIA

Not really an MSTV issue. This has been discussed ad-nauseum over in the Seattle/Comcast HDTV thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=253006

Read the last few pages of this thread - some very informative posts by one of the HD engineers from KOMO.

I apologize if this is off-topic, but since this thread relates to the Comcast DVR only available in Washington State, it seems like a good place to ask...
I recently noticed that the Click Network in Tacoma is now offering a DVR, I think with HD. It looks like it uses the Motorola 6412, but I couldn't find much other info about it. Anyone here have one or tried it? If so, what kind of interface/guide does it use, and how do you like it (especially compared to the 6412 with MSTV, which is what I have now)? With all the problems I've had with Comcast over the years, I would LOVE to ditch them, but want to make sure the competitions product is as good or better. Thanks.

...seems to be a 6208 with TV Guide interface:
http://www.click-network.com/Consumer/DVR/DVRmain.htm

(You really should ask them, and not us.)

Originally posted by wareagle
...seems to be a 6208 with TV Guide interface:
http://www.click-network.com/Consumer/DVR/DVRmain.htm

(You really should ask them, and not us.)

Of note, however, is that Click Network claims to have CBS in HD.

Any idea when we'll be getting the non-DVR remotes swapped out for DVR remotes for the 6412? Having been spoiled by the ease-of-use of several Replays, it's been tough enough getting used to not having automatic commercial advance, instant replay, 30-second skip, and instant jump to any part of program, let alone not having a single button to push to get to the DVR guide or a button to jump between a live program and a recorded program.

With all the family stuff going on and holiday ball games to keep up with, I haven't had time to pick out a universal remote. Any suggestions for a programmable/learning one with customizeable touch screen operation - like a Pronto but hopefully less expensive?

Thanks!

Tim

Originally posted by TayX
Of note, however, is that Click Network claims to have CBS in HD. We've been thru this discussion before on the main Seattle/Comcast thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=253006). There's also a dedicated Tacoma, WA Click! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=441368) thread.

CBS-HD is nice, but even that isn't enough to make me want to move to Tacoma :-)

Originally posted by tluxon
Any idea when we'll be getting the non-DVR remotes swapped out for DVR remotes for the 6412? Having been spoiled by the ease-of-use of several Replays, it's been tough enough getting used to not having automatic commercial advance, instant replay, 30-second skip, and instant jump to any part of program, let alone not having a single button to push to get to the DVR guide or a button to jump between a live program and a recorded program.

With all the family stuff going on and holiday ball games to keep up with, I haven't had time to pick out a universal remote. Any suggestions for a programmable/learning one with customizeable touch screen operation - like a Pronto but hopefully less expensive?

Thanks!

Tim

I don't have an answer to your question, I got lucky I guess and ended up with the DVR remote for the 6412. But having come from the DirecTivo, the Comcast DVR remote still sucks and immediately forced me to go get a Harmony 680 to avoid a divorce. It isn't a touch screen, but it is fantastic. Check out the remote control section of the forum.

I also bought the Harmony 680--but returned it when the 676 came out. I prefer the 676 because the keys are laid out further apart. www.harmonyremote.com

Comcast will be coming out to connect their Motorola HD DVR cable box to our Sony KDF50WE655 next week. The Comcast box has a DVI-D Out connection and the Sony has a HDMI connection. Is this type of connection ok or does the digital signal get changed in any way? The other option is using component cables but I thought HDMI would be better. This is all new to me so any help would be appreciated.

Also, any good lower priced cables besides Monster cables? Hate to pay their prices. Isn't a cable a cable? Is the Monster brand really that great?

Originally posted by AzRich

Also, any good lower priced cables besides Monster cables? Hate to pay their prices. Isn't a cable a cable? Is the Monster brand really that great?

Can't comment about the DVI-HDMI compatibility.

But when comcast installer came to me on Monday he brought with him a set of component video cables that monster made especially for Comcast. They are nice cables and were free.

The installer did not have any DVI or optical cables.

Jon

hopefully someone from microsoft or comcast can help me. any idea what this error message means... it comes up when accessing i-Channels through the menu: (after about 30 seconds of blank screen) "This infomation channel is currently unavailable. (MCS-B)".

is there something I can do myself, or say to the CSSRs to put them on the right track to solving this for me... none of them have a clue.

Originally posted by burger23
I also bought the Harmony 680--but returned it when the 676 came out. I prefer the 676 because the keys are laid out further apart. www.harmonyremote.com

I think you mean the 688. I believe the 680 is identical to the 676 except for the color and a few button labels. I have a 680 being delivered today and can't wait to try it out. I got the DVR remote with my 6412 but the button layout is just terrible.

The other problem I'm having is that my 6412 is really starting to slow to a crawl. I figure it must be disk fragmentation or something. I'm beginning to think the extra minute padding at the beginning of each show is because it can take up to a minute after you press the play button before the menu goes away and you see the picture full screen :)

--
Steve

Deleting channels which I don't subscribe to is WAY harder than I would like. I don't have the 'real' 6412 remote, does it have buttons that make it easier to delete unsubscribed channels?

What I find I have to do is go to Menu move up to 'Setup', go into channel lists (takes a couple steps), and find myself at channel 1! Now, I want to delete channel 137 (e.g.) since I don't subscribe to it, and want to get it out of the program listings, channel up/down sequence, etc.

I have to arrow 'down' some 136 times before I can click to delete the channel! ACK! This is, like, an ANTI-user interface!

Have I missed something? Will the 'real' remote help? Thanks.

Urp, I meant to post this to the 'official' 6412 thread, but pushed the wrong button and got a new thread! Oh well.