Washington State - Comcast 6412 w/ MSFT Software [Text View] - Page 4

timfierro

02-20-05, 08:59 AM

Install set for Saturday 'afternoon'. I never really asked what 'afternoon' meant considering a time period, but assumed anytime after 12:00 Noon and before about 5pm. Turns out according to Comcast that afternoon means between 2pm and 6pm. At 2 minutes before 6pm, the call came in from the installer that he is running late. I was cool with that as I had been waiting since noon and had planned this day to be home anyway. Wife said at 5:30pm and that we are not getting it and he abandonded us. Just took time and all is well when the installation was over.

Here are a couple of questions I have though;

1) We set up a Series event of Survivor but it looks like we have to go back into the setup afterwards to make the changes/options. Seems we should have been able to set all the options for the recording at the time we schedule it, so maybe we missed that part. Is this normal? You set a Series to record and then you have to go back into it and set all the options for it?

2) Microsoft TV Guide is different than I-Guide? I thought Comcast owned TV Guide and they were the ones writing the software for the guide for which I thought it was I-Guide. Why do those of us in Washington have one guide and the rest of the country another guide? And will the whole country be switched to one guide (the same) at some point in the future?

I am planning to test the box out today and setup some shows as the TV Guide should now have data. I did notice that we have an option to record at the exact time or 5 minutes before/after; but not an option for 1 minute. However the show that was recorded last night looks like it recorded a minute before/after as some form of default. Not sure how that will fare against recording a show at 8pm on channel and another show from a different channel at 9pm. What show gets the minute? :-) I would guess that will be up to the scheduling conflict settings (if there is one) similar to the priority settings.

Box is here, now it is time to use it.

Tim

markjrenna

02-20-05, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by timfierro
2) Microsoft TV Guide is different than I-Guide? I thought Comcast owned TV Guide and they were the ones writing the software for the guide for which I thought it was I-Guide. Why do those of us in Washington have one guide and the rest of the country another guide? And will the whole country be switched to one guide (the same) at some point in the future?Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Yes, very different. This is the i-Guide - http://comcast.com/newguide/flashdemo.html

Comcast and TV Guide (Gemstar) created a company called GuideWorks. GuideWorks created the i-Guide.

On one hand, Comcast does not want one vendor, but on the other hand, they want to control the user interface (i-Guide would do just that). I would like to see us (Comcast customers) get the best guide. Excluding Tivo's Guide (which we can't get anyway) which is better. I guess only time will tell.

timfierro

02-20-05, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by markjrenna

Yes, very different. This is the i-Guide
"link in other post"

Comcast and TV Guide (Gemstar) created a company called GuideWorks. GuideWorks created the i-Guide.

On one hand, Comcast does not want one vendor, but on the other hand, they want to control the user interface (i-Guide would do just that). I would like to see us (Comcast customers) get the best guide. Excluding Tivo's Guide (which we can't get anyway) which is better. I guess only time will tell. [/B]

Now I see that I-Guide and Msoft's guide are kind of similar than what I was used to with no DVR. Something like only '5' channels can be viewed in the guide at one time. I am used to seeing the guide without the DVR box where you can view what is on TV and see 'many' (well, more than 5) channels and their programs that are playing right now.

Seems the difference (if I remember) was that with this new Msoft guide the information on a show is placed above in a big box area showing what the program is about. With the old guide (before DVR), there was smaller area on top so you get more viewing of the guide, which is what I liked since the reason I am opening the guide is to look at the programs that are on or coming up.

Thanks for answering my Question #2.

For my Question #1, as I got to play with the DVR today, I noticed that you can change the settings as you select the show, but you have to press OK/SELECT. The tech when he came out last night told us to press RECORD and wondered also why we couldn't set the options at that point. So you can set all the options when selecting a show to record, you just don't want to be intuitive from the start and choose RECORD, you have to (from what I find so far) press OK/SELECT instead. I hope I have that right.

Tim

timfierro

02-21-05, 12:19 AM

This is just a list of things I have found on the
Comcast/Motorola 6412 DVR with Microsoft's Guide.

I have tried to give as much detail as I can for
the things I have questions on. Some are questions
to understand the guide and some are more of a
request and/or discussion of a feature.

1) Search For Program Title
When using the alphabet displayed, your cursor will stop if you try to go left of the letter "A. If you go right of the same row with your cursor, after the letter "J" you will be taken to the list of shows.

Shouldn't it rotate through the alphabet on the same row instead? If I am selecting the letter "J" and now I want to press the letter "A", from "J" I have to go back through all previous letters. Maybe it's just me, but I thought it should rotate.

I do realize there are focus groups, testers, and maybe even the head programmer's Aunt Alice all giving input; so maybe this has all been determined and the way it is now, IS THE WAY it is going to be, so don't bring it up again. :-)

However, if there has been no official stance on this particular item, is the above something that is actually being worked on in a future update to have the alphabet rows rotate?

2) Search For Programs
When using the alphabet to enter in your search criteria, if you don't know your program you are searching for has a "THE" before it, you will have to enter it all over again.

While this is just a bummer not knowing if a show has a "THE", it would be nice to have a choice in the alphabet that actually states "THE" as an option. I know we have a choice of two "DEL" keys and two of the "SPACE" key; is a "THE" key planned to take up the free area near the top 2 rows of the keys; or even to get rid of the extra DEL and SPACE that are there now for keys that would be more useful than a duplicate of a key?

Just a slight addition to the above, but the 'THE' key really should be "THE " meaning the word THE with a Space after it. This would allow someone to press the "THE " key and get the preceding space so all the end user has to do is enter the rest of the characters. If THE is used alot and should be added, then it might as well include the space or the end user will have to enter it every single time they want a program that starts with THE. :-)

3) Add New Recording/Program
When you want to set up a new series to record, you then get to the point of choosing an episode so you can set your options; there is no blanket type option. What I mean by this is that you have to manually choose a CHANNEL and from that you can go into the programs options for that CHANNEL.

I do not see where to tell the software that I want to record a show no matter what channel it is on. If I want to record a series, the software should actually look for the show and record it. It should not be limited to the one channel that was chosen as the only channel. Even though Cheers or Frazier may be on many different channels in a given 2 week period; that should be up to the end user to determine the amount of stored shows.

But my concern is that if I chose an east coast channel of a subscribed channel as the shows start point; if for some reason it does not record at 6pm that evening because of cable outage or anything, the software should be able to tell that it is on again in 3 hours from now on the west coast feed on a different channel. When I say I want to record the Showtime series called HUFF, then I would expect the software to record that show at it's earliest convenience of the available incoming stream which means in 3 more hours it will be on. Not wait another 2 days until the program gets it's first rerun of that episode.

Which brings up the main thing about this and that is that when you are setting up your series for recording, it is bound to happen that you will have conflicts. The software should be smart enough to figure out that instead of choosing one show recording or the other; first verify that it is not available on an alternate channel for that same episode that is in the conflict. Possibly even check both shows to see if internally the software can get both shows without having to cancel one or the other.

Is this the right way the software is running and I haven't noticed it and really do have a conflict? If not, is there plans to fix/adjust/featurize the software to work like the above? IE: I don't want to say record only @ 10pm on Tuesday on Channel 500, and I don't want to say anytime on Channel 500; but I want to tell the guide that I want to record this SHOW @ Anytime AND on any Channel for that program.

4) Programming A Recording Of An Actor (Or possibly any search/programming)
If I want to record every movie with Al Pacino, this is possible searching using the Actor search and I think you can do it with a keyword and be just as accurate if the show details have this information. But it will only show any shows that are coming up within the guide's database of shows coming up, it does not really allow a recording of any Al Pacino movie.

Is there a way to tell the software that I want to record every Al Pacino movie or do I have to request a new search each week (at least get a few more days of data) and then manually do a search again for Al Pacino and select individually? IE: How do you tell the guide that you want all Al Pacino movies that come in and not have to tell the guide routinely to do it.

5) Conflicts That Shouldn't Even Be A Conflict
When a conflict in a recording comes up, I understand that after the priority is given/checked, the guide is going to ask me to resolve the issue. However, I would expect the conflict screen to only come up, IF it is truly a conflict.

I have HUFF (Showtime Series) being recorded as a series and I later added a new series to the fold. After completing the new series that was added the conflict screen showed up. I should mention too that I have told HUFF that I only want first runs (no reruns). This particular conflict that arose with a new entry has HUFF being in conflict with this new show. This 'should' not be. The episode in question of HUFF is a rerun. Sure there is an airing of HUFF on that conflict, but the guide software should be obeying the first command that only first run episodes in the series are what should be recorded.

Does the guide think that a rerun is only a rerun if you have it on your hard drive and I am misunderstanding what a rerun is?

6) VOD - Video On Demand
I have read that you cannot record onto your 6412 so you will have to record to the VCR, but I would like to see this ability added. I will use the HBO show "OZ" as an example. I really wanted to see episodes 1 through 10 or so as I missed them when they were available since I didn't know it was available. I do check regularly now the VOD menus to see what shows are playing, but it would be nice to just put in the name of the show and record to DVR instead of my physical tape drive.

Sometimes I want to watch a VOD but my wife cannot view it with me. If I had recorded it to the DVR she would be able to bring it up quite easily. But if you don't get the show when it is on VOD, they rotate and you may miss it as it gets deleted. Sure, a VCR tape would work, but I have a DVR now and would like to use it for it's convenience of the same function as the VCR. It doesn't matter that I have to be home to record it, I can always set an hour VOD show and go do other things around the house/yard/office and come back to the screen to turn it off or whatever I need to do; but I don't have to actually watch it to record it.

So maybe a feature request as I am sure many people could utilize the recording features of the DVR and not have to use physical tapes any longer. And if this feature is added, can it be implemented to where one doesn't need to be home to use it?

7) Lights On The 6412
When I view the recorded shows it will show if something is being recorded right now, but I don't see it on the lights of the 6412.

Should the light on the receiver turn on when you are recording or is that light for some other purpose?

8) Exit Properly
When I add a recording like a series, I don't think I am exiting correctly. Right now I can search for a program title, add the recording, but I am then given the option to either EXIT or to Search Again; I don't actually want to do either. What I want to do is go back to the DVR Menu screen since I am done adding.

Why do I have to Exit out of the guide and then go back into it just to get back to the main DVR menu from whence I came? Am I doing something wrong and there is a key to go back and I am only seeing Exit or Add with no other menu choice?

Tim

nodrog2

02-21-05, 12:31 PM

The conflicts that bother me are - when two show are in sequence on one channel and I am also recording on another channel, due to the dumb overlap I have a conflict. I've found it necessary to give the first show an additional 60 minutes and delete recording the second(sequential) show. A real pain in the ---. Will the conflict resolve itself if I leave it alone, by itself I mean will it stop recording one show at one minute before nine and start the other at one minute after. Wow, I think I complicated things, not sure how to explain my dilemma.

jameskollar

02-21-05, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by nodrog2
The conflicts that bother me are - when two show are in sequence on one channel and I am also recording on another channel, due to the dumb overlap I have a conflict. I've found it necessary to give the first show an additional 60 minutes and delete recording the second(sequential) show. A real pain in the ---. Will the conflict resolve itself if I leave it alone, by itself I mean will it stop recording one show at one minute before nine and start the other at one minute after. Wow, I think I complicated things, not sure how to explain my dilemma.

I had this situation occur last night, at least in theory. I have Desparate House Wifes and Boston Legal (a great show BTW) scheduled as recurring shows. These are back to back, same channel. I the went to schedule Live from New York, the SNL special.

Normally, because of the one minute overlap, I would have expected a conflict. But (drum roll please) I did not get a conflict!. The box took it! I checked my schedule this moring and all three shows are there. Haven't watched them yet to see what happened at ~ 10:00pm but it looks good so far.

artshotwell

02-21-05, 03:21 PM

Yup, I had the same issue a couple nights ago. No conflict. It worked just fine. I was recording one program 9-10pm and had two programs set for 10-11pm. At one minute to 10 it started one recording and at 10 it changed channels to start recording the second 10 pm show.

charlie1

02-21-05, 05:07 PM

Quick Question? This thread is enormous and I'm sure my answer is somewhere within it, but I can't seem to find it.

Do the HD Cable boxes (6410 & 6412?) have DVI or HDMI outputs? I've heard they only have component outputs, but I can't verify this.

I'm about to order cabling for my new front projection system.

Thanks in advance.

Weil

02-21-05, 05:53 PM

They have a DVI connector and I bought my cable from pacificcable.com/HDMI_Cables.html as they are in Auburn Washington near my home.

artshotwell

02-21-05, 06:11 PM

I notice a line in a Reuters report on TiVo that indicates what some have seen here and that's that the 6412 sometimes locks up during recording.

Here's the pertinent quote:

"..Comcast Corp. subscribers in Silicon Valley, who have suffered through snags in its recent rollout of DVRs made by Motorola. According to reports, about 1 in every hundred of the set-top boxes freezes while recording their favorite television shows."

Here's the story:

TiVo's Success Breeds New Competiton and Products (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=7679838&src=eDialog/GetContent&section=news)

timfierro

02-21-05, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by nodrog2
Will the conflict resolve itself if I leave it alone, by itself I mean will it stop recording one show at one minute before nine and start the other at one minute after. Wow, I think I complicated things, not sure how to explain my dilemma.

I can tell you that I had 2 shows on the same channel back to back. I lost the last minute of show #1 for that single episode/recording.

But when viewing show #2, it starts out with the last minute from show #1.

So that should answer your question. As long as the clock on the DVR matches the signal, hopefully the last minute is the credits and/or commercials. In my case, the last minute of show #1 was the previews for the next week's show.

Tim

charlie1

02-21-05, 09:43 PM

So, the 6410 & 6412 do have DVI outputs, Right? I spoke to some comcast tech, after being passed all around, and she said they have component out only, and that there weren't even any plans to bring out DVI or HDMI on the cable boxes. I wonder what's going on that the technician is giving conflicting info.:confused:

grapaslingo

02-22-05, 12:57 AM

Yeah, my box has DVI. It might have actually been a deal breaker if it didn't. On my DLP set, component is noticeably more pixelated. Since I've gone with the way too stinking expensive DVI cable, it has looked much better.

charlie1

02-22-05, 11:18 AM

Thanks Grapaslingo!!

I've got to order 50 feet of DVI cable (we're talking major $$$$). To get a decent picture from component video (analog) the cable would cost even more. So I'm glad to hear it has DVI capability.

markjrenna

02-22-05, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by artshotwell
I notice a line in a Reuters report on TiVo that indicates what some have seen here and that's that the 6412 sometimes locks up during recording.

Here's the pertinent quote:

"..Comcast Corp. subscribers in Silicon Valley, who have suffered through snags in its recent rollout of DVRs made by Motorola. According to reports, about 1 in every hundred of the set-top boxes freezes while recording their favorite television shows."

Here's the story:

TiVo's Success Breeds New Competiton and Products (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=7679838&src=eDialog/GetContent&section=news) Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Yes. The 9.15 Firmware addresses and corrects that issue.

nodrog2

02-22-05, 12:45 PM

Thanks for the input - I will try getting back to individual schedule instead of lumping two or three together. It will save a lot of doublechecking if I do it right.
This must have been a recent fix??

golu

02-22-05, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by charlie1
Thanks Grapaslingo!!

I've got to order 50 feet of DVI cable (we're talking major $$$$). To get a decent picture from component video (analog) the cable would cost even more. So I'm glad to hear it has DVI capability.

As per Tosh 52HMX84 manual, maximum recommended length for DVI-HDMI is 10 ft. If this is true, dont you think 50 ft cable will cause some problem?

djmattyb

02-22-05, 05:04 PM

What is the recommended standard for long runs of HD? What cable is the best to use?

timfierro

02-22-05, 07:49 PM

Concerning my post above; specifically Item #5, does anyone know how it works so I can fix mine?

I have told my SERIES programs to record only new episodes and to keep only the last 2 episodes. However on Wednesday (tomorrow), I have a few conflicts to resolve with the scheduler.

Seems that the Microsoft guide is trying to record reruns of a show when I did not ask for them; thus creating the conflicts.

How do I set the options to get only New episodes of a series and not the reruns? (Note: All "HUFF" (on Showtime) are reruns right now but the guide is trying to record it.)

As another note, I also had the same settings for HBO's Deadwood to only record New Episodes; yet it recorded a rerun the other day. I just can't figure out what other setting may be controlling this.

Tim

artshotwell

02-22-05, 09:51 PM

I have noticed that reruns get recorded when the series is set to record only new shows. My solution is to go through the record schedule every evening. Not the best solution, but it seems clear that this thing requires watching.

tap

02-23-05, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by timfierro
This is just a list of things I have found on the
Comcast/Motorola 6412 DVR with Microsoft's Guide.

Just wait until you've had it a month, you'll find out the piece of crap doesn't even work half the time. Between the constant lock-ups and messed up recordings, this is truely the worst piece of consumer electronics I have ever used. Has no one at microsoft or motorola actually used this thing? How can comcast foist this crap on its customers?

Shouldn't it rotate through the alphabet on the same row instead? If I am selecting the letter "J" and now I want to press the letter "A", from "J" I have to go back through all previous letters. Maybe it's just me, but I thought it should rotate.

Some of the menus wrap around, some don't. You're right it doesn't make sense, but this is Microsoft we're talking about, you need to set a very low bar.

2) Search For Programs
When using the alphabet to enter in your search criteria, if you don't know your program you are searching for has a "THE" before it, you will have to enter it all over again.

Yep, this is stupid too. The title search is worthless, use the keyword search instead. Microsoft, low bar...

3) Add New Recording/Program

I do not see where to tell the software that I want to record a show no matter what channel it is on. If I want to record a series, the software should actually look for the show and record

There is no way to record a show on more than one channel, except to select each channel and add it again.

But my concern is that if I chose an east coast channel of a subscribed channel as the shows start point; if for some reason it does not record at 6pm that evening because of cable outage or anything, the software should be able to tell that it is on again in 3 hours from now on the west coast feed on a different channel. When I say I want to record the

If the DRV fails to record something, it won't record it when it's on second time. Even if you tell it to record the second showing, it still won't do it. It will show up as scheduled to record, but it won't happen. And believe me, you will have recordings fail for no reason.

5) Conflicts That Shouldn't Even Be A Conflict

Does the guide think that a rerun is only a rerun if you have it on your hard drive and I am misunderstanding what a rerun is?

The "only new" option doesn't work. The DVR will not usually record episodes it already has on the hard drive, but sometimes it will. However, it will always try to record all episodes. Even if you say to only record at a certain time, it will still record at other times. New vs rerun doesn't work at all, it will still try to record all episodes.

6) VOD - Video On Demand
I have read that you cannot record onto your 6412 so you will have to record to the VCR, but I would like to see this ability added. I will use the HBO show "OZ" as an example. I really wanted to see episodes 1 through 10 or so as I missed them when they were available since I didn't know it was available. I do check regularly now the VOD menus to see what shows are playing, but it would be nice to just put in the name of the show and record to DVR instead of my physical tape drive.

I doubt they'll ever do this. You probably best off downloading the episodes off the internet, then storing them on your computer until you can watch them. Sometimes the 6214 will work and I can watch 24 or Lost in HD, but normally I have to download them.

7) Lights On The 6412
When I view the recorded shows it will show if something is being recorded right now, but I don't see it on the lights of the 6412.

Should the light on the receiver turn on when you are recording or is that light for some other purpose?

There is a light that is supposed to turn on when it is recording, but it doesn't work. Microsoft...low bar...

8) Exit Properly
When I add a recording like a series, I don't think I am exiting correctly. Right now I can search for a program title, add the recording, but I am then given the option to either EXIT
or to Search Again; I don't actually want to do either. What I want to do is go back to the DVR Menu screen since I am done adding.

Some times you can push the last key to go back, and sometimes you can't. Microsoft...

artshotwell

02-23-05, 09:58 AM

The record light works on my 6412. A red light...

nodrog2

02-23-05, 11:21 AM

Some 6412's show the red record light and many don't. I used to have one that lit up but was faulty in other areas. The replacement unit did not light up when recording. The lack of consistency is pretty bad. Am experiencing many FF staying on problems as well as delays in responses. Nothing new I guess.

artshotwell

02-23-05, 11:28 AM

I'm amazed at all the inconsistencies in the 6412. I wonder what this means for the manufacturing/software development process...

markjrenna

02-23-05, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by artshotwell
I'm amazed at all the inconsistencies in the 6412. I wonder what this means for the manufacturing/software development process... Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

I wonder the same exact thing.

I have never been a part of a beta test without willingly knowing it or wanting to partake in it. But this experience has certainly been a huge beta test for Comcast.

I hope it pays off for us sooner than later.

artshotwell

02-23-05, 12:01 PM

And, it doesn't seem like all these issues are software issues. The hardware issues will be very difficult... and expensive... to fix. The software issues should be able to be fixed with those middle-of-the-night updates. Assuming someone is paying attention.

getoverit

02-23-05, 11:41 PM

tap... if microsoft sucks so bad, maybe you should go find an open source version...

to the rest of you - this is a beta. you asked for the box. I have yet to see one comcast ad promoting this box

I am so sick of the whining on this board - how about useful information and tips - save the bitching for somewhere else.

getoverit

02-23-05, 11:41 PM

getoverit

02-23-05, 11:41 PM

getoverit

02-23-05, 11:41 PM

getoverit

02-23-05, 11:41 PM

timfierro

02-23-05, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by getoverit

to the rest of you - this is a beta. you asked for the box. I have yet to see one comcast ad promoting this box

I am so sick of the whining on this board - how about useful information and tips - save the bitching for somewhere else.

I have seen advertisements for the DVR on TV, so they are out there. It's only a matter of time before the commercials become more widespread.

But about useful information? I posted as much detail as I could to describe problems or inconsistencies. I originally posted on Comcast's forums that I was getting the box and asked where to post bug reports to get things fixed. I was told that I should come here into this forum because one of the authors of the program (Microsoft's Guide) participates here. I have yet to see him/her so don't know for sure. If so, no responses from an author has come forth about the things I have noticed.

BTW, to fix my problem with Wednesday night (tonight) having so many conflicts, I ended up manually deleting all the reruns so they wouldn't be recorded.

Since this software, according to you, is Beta; where is the Beta forum and why wasn't I informed by Comcast that this guide is Beta?

I knew there were bugs only from reading in advance for a week before I got my box, but someone less inclined to research this topic may be put off and may not know that this software is Beta.

So you think that there is whining, but I don't view most of the points raised as whining, only some who may be a bit forceful in their opinions. And as far as tips, I see them in here on how to get around the inconsistencies in the guide so we can still use the box.

Maybe I haven't read all the many pages of this thread in depth and remembered how this topic has progressed, but other than one person being very vocal on a company product, the forum seems well behaved.

Tim

timfierro

02-23-05, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by artshotwell
I have noticed that reruns get recorded when the series is set to record only new shows. My solution is to go through the record schedule every evening. Not the best solution, but it seems clear that this thing requires watching.

Yes Art, that is what I had to do. I made it a point this morning to go through all the conflicts and just delete those entries that were trying to record the reruns. Looks like everything that I wanted is being recorded tonight after doing this.

I am sure this is a hard thing to program, but it does need to be reviewed as it is not working like I think it should; or a change in the description and explanation of what it is supposed to would be helpful.

Tim

SeattleUser

02-24-05, 02:52 AM

Truly trying to be helpful and not whining, and knowing that Microsoft does indeed monitor this thread, I have to agree that I did not sign up to be a beta tester and that this is the most unreliable piece of electronic equipment - hard & software - I have ever used. That said, it may be helpful to those trying to fix the problems to note that none of the problems found in this thread are found in DirecTV's dual tuner Tivo: no recordings that simply quit before the show ends; no recordings that show as scheduled - to use Microsoft's language - and then fail to actually record; no problems with programs like Simpsons because it knows what it is truly a new program (I'm guessing they simply do a better job of with the info on the show so that the recorder has an easier time distinguishing what to record and what not to); no problems with fast forwards that won't quit; no random unresponsiveness to remote commands; no storing of remote commands during a delay and then suddenly running them all; no inconsistent User Interface issues like the "last button;" etc., etc., etc. Yes an HD version of Tivo costs way too much, but at least it is set it and forget it.

I am almost certain this problems are traceable to hard and software shortcomings, but being completely serious here, why doesn't Microsoft simply get a Tivo and emulate? I'm guessing that they did something like this, but having had a WebTV too, the new interface obviously owes much more to that buggy interface than Tivo's. Of course there are patent issues, but this could nonetheless be done legally.

I am truly not trying to whine, but instead am simply asking that MS learn from the company that consumers loved so much it's name became the way most people refer to recording TV: "I'm going to Tivo that show." Someone will undoubtedly flame me by saying I should go back to DirecTV. That is not my goal, instead Comcast has a bandwidth edge that satellite will have a hard time surpassing, no matter how many satellites they launch, so, I am simply trying to be helpful as to how to make the delivery of that service actually work. For now, that simply means letting the programmers know where the problems are. Here's hoping this is received in the spirit of which it is offered.

tluxon

02-24-05, 03:14 AM

Blaming MS for the problems on this box is jumping to conclusions. For one, I haven't had very many problems where things didn't record as long as I had plenty of free space on the DVR.

My opinion is that the 6412 is underpowered for the tasks that it was intended to accomplish. Considering all the read/write demands on the disk when two HD shows are recording AND a third pre-recorded show is playing at the same time, just about any of our powerful home PCs would be bogging down. I'm going to be amazed if they ever get the 6412 doing everything it promises without a glitch.

I'm pretty sure MS has a very long laundry list of things to improve and some of the things that seem most obvious to us may be pretty far down the list. Right now I'm just pretty happy that I have a box that'll timeshift HD for me on the big screen. For everything else I'm sure glad I have three ReplayTVs.

I think one of the biggest problems they have is related to someone's insistence that recordings start and end a couple minutes beyond the program's time boundaries. If they back off of that and allow back-to-back recordings to be done with the same tuner, many of the problems I've seen will go away.

Cheers,

Tim

markjrenna

02-24-05, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by getoverit
to the rest of you - this is a beta. you asked for the box. I have yet to see one comcast ad promoting this box

I am so sick of the whining on this board - how about useful information and tips - save the bitching for somewhere else. Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

We have the i-Guide. Comcast never told me it was beta. I don't see any whining. I see people telling their experiences, asking questions, and providing answers.

markjrenna

02-24-05, 04:40 AM

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

We were just updated to 9.15 Firmware as of 4 am.

BEK

02-24-05, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by tluxon
For one, I haven't had very many problems where things didn't record as long as I had plenty of free space on the DVR.
...
Right now I'm just pretty happy that I have a box that'll timeshift HD for me on the big screen. For everything else I'm sure glad I have three ReplayTVs.

Those of us having problems of shows getting truncated or not recording seem to be having the problem when recording SD, a task for which it sounds like you are using your ReplayTVs. (I had another SD show only record 50 minutes of an hour the other day, with only 40% of the disk space used.)

BTW, my box still has the 9.12 firmware here at 6:45am PST so it looks as if we might not be getting 9.15 right away.

artshotwell

02-24-05, 10:35 AM

I don't think this box is labeled as beta. In fact, Comcast's ads make it seem like it's an advanced box with capabilities above and beyond others. I do like it. I don't like some of the problems. I'm learning to live with it.

moyekj

02-24-05, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by tluxon

My opinion is that the 6412 is underpowered for the tasks that it was intended to accomplish. Considering all the read/write demands on the disk when two HD shows are recording AND a third pre-recorded show is playing at the same time, just about any of our powerful home PCs would be bogging down. I'm going to be amazed if they ever get the 6412 doing everything it promises without a glitch. I can certify that the 6412 hardware is plently capable of recording 2 HD programs while playing back a 3rd HD show. I do it all the time without glitches - this is using 6412 with Passport Echo software. If you scroll way back in the Cox 6412/Passport thread you'll see it took a firmware update and a fix to Cox headends to fix macro-tiling and audio-dropout problems similar to what the 6412/I-guide users are still reporting today. The 6412/Passport solution still has some critical bugs of it's own to be fixed, but as far as simultaneous dual HD recording and HD playback that is not a problem.

P.S. For what it's worth, last night I was recording 2 HD channels, playing back a pre-recorded HD channel AND capturing the HD playback via the firewire port all at the same time without glitches. Pretty amazing all that can be accomplished at once. :)

tluxon

02-24-05, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by moyekj
I can certify that the 6412 hardware is plently capable of recording 2 HD programs while playing back a 3rd HD show. I do it all the time without glitches - this is using 6412 with Passport Echo software. If you scroll way back in the Cox 6412/Passport thread you'll see it took a firmware update and a fix to Cox headends to fix macro-tiling and audio-dropout problems similar to what the 6412/I-guide users are still reporting today. The 6412/Passport solution still has some critical bugs of it's own to be fixed, but as far as simultaneous dual HD recording and HD playback that is not a problem.
That's great news. I've got to say that I haven't had any problem with the 6412 doing all that except for those overlapping recording periods - usually within about 3 minutes of the program end/new program begin point.
...P.S. For what it's worth, last night I was recording 2 HD channels, playing back a pre-recorded HD channel AND capturing the HD playback via the firewire port all at the same time without glitches. Pretty amazing all that can be accomplished at once. :)
Funny thing, I was doing the exact same thing. Lost and Smallville were recording and I was watching a pre-recorded ESPN-HD Sportscenter segment while capturing clips from it via firewire. Absolutely no apparent problems until about 8:58 when Alias started recording. The 6412 became unresponsive and eventually re-booted, taking control away until at least 9:05. When later viewing Lost I noted audio breakups, macroblocking, and stuck video at times that corresponded with when I was using FFs and REWs on the Sportcenter show. Also, the last couple minutes of Lost (during the Lost/Smallville/Alias transition) were broken up quite badly.

I'm not surprised to hear of problems people have been having with recording analog channels. For some reason the Replay records the same 6412 tuned analog channel great that appears horrible when viewed directly from the 6412. They may be working so hard on the HD glitches that SD issues have barely been dealt with. Hope they get to it soon.

Tim

James W. Johnson

02-24-05, 01:41 PM

Hi, I have not read this whole thread yet so this may have been covered already but I just want to get a quick answer because I am quite frustrated with this unit.

I just got the 6412 on Tuesday.

1. Responsiveness to remote is poor, too many scenarios to list...I am pretty sure its not the remote itself because it controls my receiver volume just fine. Sometimes the only funtional button is the On-Demand button..so I enter that then exit and pull up the main menu.

2. Have played DVR recordings and audio is missing, backing out
and re-starting the program several times seems to get the audio going.

3. adding onto the responsivness part, the unit seems to struggle when switching between HDTV and SD sources.. it really gets slow and super un responsive when in HD trying to go back to SD. I guess there are 2 different menus..one for HD and one for SD.

I know there are a few more things but I cannot remember at the moment.

All told I really hate this box so far, I hope I just have a defective unit or remote.

kwickag

02-24-05, 09:53 PM

Based on my experience it looks to me like you got a bad box. Mine showed up last Friday and the only problem I have had is the occasional audio dropout when playing a recording. I'd call Comcast and ask for a replacement.

timfierro

02-25-05, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by markjrenna
Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

We were just updated to 9.15 Firmware as of 4 am.

I am sitting with 9.12 Firmware here on the west coast; Washington. I wonder if Comcast is rolling out new firmware, why not send it to all machines?

Does anyone know if firmware upgrades are machine fixes, or do they also fix software issues in the guide?

Tim

spacegrrrl

02-25-05, 02:08 AM

So I got a DVR a week ago. The recent Comcast upgrades in my area had made the cable box I'd had for 5 years unable to work with any premium content or on demand. I was to ld the DVR was the latest/greatest. I am a serious Tivo fan and was anxious to experience this box. So far it is a sad piece of work! Playing back prerecorded content will often start with no audio. Going to a live channel, getting audio playing then going back to the recording will fix the problem. Picture quality and stuttering are evident (I've recordered the same program on my TIVO and it is fine.) Several times now the box has ended the recording well before the schedule shows the end of the program. As a result, if it is in the lower channels were my trusty TV can still tune I record important shows on both devices. The new DVR can get into this mode where it ignores all the remote input. You have to just keep trying different things to get it back to paying attention. The presentation of the schedule is a pale comparison to the TIVO schedule. I totally miss the option of inputing favorites and having the TIVO become part of my TV watching experience. At this point I expect I'll be downgrading the DVR to the HD Comacast cable box soon. Basically TIVO is a bizzilion times better every way I can see.

I had really high expectations for this box, I currently work for Motorola and used to work for Microsoft. I love both of these companies but this box is dreck!

Michele:mad:

jimre

02-25-05, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by nodrog2
Some 6412's show the red record light and many don't. I used to have one that lit up but was faulty in other areas. The replacement unit did not light up when recording. The lack of consistency is pretty bad. Am experiencing many FF staying on problems as well as delays in responses. Nothing new I guess. The red record light not working is a Motorola hardware problem. If you have a "Phase 1" 6412 box (Platform ID = 606) then it should work. If you have a "Phase 2" box (Platform ID = 607)) then it won't work. It's my understanding that MS and other 6412 software suppliers are trying to work around whatever it was that Motorola broke when they updated their hardware. Hopefully a future software update will make the red light work again for "Phase 2" boxes.

wareagle

02-25-05, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by spacegrrrl
Basically TIVO is a bizzilion times better every way I can see.

So, how are the HD shows on Tivo?

I must have an unusual piece of junk here, since the only problems I ever experienced (video breakup during recording overlaps) were fixed by the one firmware & MS guide software update.

markjrenna

02-25-05, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by spacegrrrl
I had really high expectations for this box, I currently work for Motorola and used to work for Microsoft. I love both of these companies but this box is dreck!

Michele:mad: Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Michele,

Welcome to the world of dreck. Or hell maybe for some of us. I notice you said you work for Motorola... Do you have any connections and or helpful contacts within Motorola regarding the 6412???

It would be great to be able to express to Motorola directly our vast amount of concerns.

Thanks,
Mark

CoolCanuck

02-25-05, 12:43 PM

Exactly. The fact that this thing records multiple HD streams, and does so with at least some reliability, blows Tivo out of the water. I've been a Tivo user for the past 4 years and while I do miss the great user interface I really don't see the point of a box that only records SD. And don't get me started on the HD-Tivo. 1000 bucks for any piece of hardware is ridiculous. They really should have come out with a non-DirecTV HD-Tivo and then maybe I would have remained a customer.

So, yes the 6214 is far from perfect, but what are the alternatives? An HTPC is fine but noisy, expensive, and not nearly as plug-n-play for the average consumer.

Originally posted by wareagle
So, how are the HD shows on Tivo?

I must have an unusual piece of junk here, since the only problems I ever experienced (video breakup during recording overlaps) were fixed by the one firmware & MS guide software update.

SeattleUser

02-25-05, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by James W. Johnson
1. Responsiveness to remote is poor, too many scenarios to list... [/B]

After four boxes with the same issue, I want to Radio Shack and got a remote extender. I put the sender part of the extender right next to where we typically use the remote. You have to put the infrared light of the receiver part of the extender right in front of the left side of the time/channel display - as you are looking at the display - as that is where the DVR remote sensor is. Even then, it isn't perfect, but it helps. And even with this set up, if I am more than a 3-4 feet from the sender, it won't work consistently. Others have tried $100+ 3rd party remotes with varying degrees of success.

As to the technical side of this, I never had any remote problems with Tivo and am wondering if the person from Motorola, or someone else, might have some ideas on what is wrong, i.e. cheap remote, cheap sensor in the DVR, etc? And, does anyone have a better fix than what I've posted?

James W. Johnson

02-26-05, 12:49 PM

Well I got a second box, serial numbers were only about 50 away from the unit I already had..and I am happy to report that so far this one works alot better , though after reading what you just posted SeattleUser I am hesitant to say its a done deal. I will keep on using it and see if it stays this way.

SeattleUser, make sure your settings are correct in the main menu...the menu that you pull up when the unit is in the off position. The previous tech did not know about this menu and my settings may have been different. I have my components set to 1080i and the 4:3 setting in that menu to 480i , in 480P or stretch I cannot get the regular guide menu up correctly on my small set. The compnents go to my projector which only accepts 1080i. On an HDTV channel the menu will not come up on a non-hi def set....so keep this in mind.

With all of this knowledge in hand , I can navigate thru everything fast as heck and have not had a problem yet..everything is fast and the remote response is not only good , its excellent.

nodrog2

02-28-05, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by timfierro
I am sitting with 9.12 Firmware here on the west coast; Washington. I wonder if Comcast is rolling out new firmware, why not send it to all machines?

Does anyone know if firmware upgrades are machine fixes, or do they also fix software issues in the guide?

Tim

Edmonds still at 9.12 (mine anyway). I'm hoping 9.15 will be soon if it fixes FF problems and response delays from remote.

I cannot access guide after power off and guide button, this is new as it worked a while back, has it been disabled for any reason???

burger23

02-28-05, 12:46 PM

Please note that reference to version 9.15 was made by a poster who clearly lives outside Washington state, the only area where Comcast is offering the Microsoft guide. So perhaps 9.15 is a version of the iGuide?

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

We were just updated to 9.15 Firmware as of 4 am.

wareagle

02-28-05, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by burger23
Please note that reference to version 9.15 was made by a poster who clearly lives outside Washington state, the only area where Comcast is offering the Microsoft guide. So perhaps 9.15 is a version of the iGuide?

Based upon what happened when we received the 9.12 Motorola firmware update, it seems possible we may receive the 9.15 update simultaneously with a Microsoft update.

I still wonder what the eventual plans are for this MS guide in the corporate Comcast world.

burger23

02-28-05, 02:25 PM

I thought the GIOS: 09.12 referred to the MSFE Guide. Are you saying this this number refers to a Comcast update? The Comcast updates must somehow be unique to MSFE software, right? So when markjrenna, who uses Comcast NJ, writes about 9.15, it must be a unique update that must interact with iGuide--but probably has nothing to do with one that must interact with the Microsodt guide??

wareagle

02-28-05, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by burger23
I thought the GIOS: 09.12 referred to the MSFE Guide. Are you saying this this number refers to a Comcast update? The Comcast updates must somehow be unique to MSFE software, right? So when markjrenna, who uses Comcast NJ, writes about 9.15, it must be a unique update that must interact with iGuide--but probably has nothing to do with one that must interact with the Microsodt guide??

No.

GIOS: 09.12 refers to the Motorola 6412 firmware. This should be common to Motorola 6412's, and is updated independent of the guide software. However, an update to this firmware may or may not require a companion update to the guide software.

Guide Build: 17.18 (25046S) refers to the Microsoft guide version.

There is also a "Page version" listed which refers to the user interface pages. This doesn't seem to have been updated since the initial release.

thebigticket

03-01-05, 03:28 AM

Hello all, Recently found this board & recently ditched the Dish for comcast. First impression is that it was great! recorded two shows while watching recorded stuff the first night. That lasted a week when I lost all channels above 100, or all digital channels. Tech was out today, said I had "too strong of a signal" I mentioned that the other outlets in the house worked fine, but he tried splitting the signal with a 4way splitter, to no avail, so finally to "cover all bases" tried a new box. Wha La! seems good so far, hope it lasts more than a week. One question & I think I know the answer but if the, much sought after, 30 sec skip is built in the software but disabled by comcast could you access it with a different remote i.e. a harmony or something like that? Anyway thanks to all who post, the info is great.:D

jimre

03-01-05, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by thebigticket
...One question & I think I know the answer but if the, much sought after, 30 sec skip is built in the software but disabled by comcast could you access it with a different remote i.e. a harmony or something like that? ... Answered in the FAQ in the very firsrt post of this thread:o 30 second skip is supported by the core FE platform but most MSOs do not enable it and there is no hidden code to enable it.

thebigticket

03-01-05, 09:39 PM

Thanks

drbenson

03-02-05, 10:51 AM

Did anyone else experience multiple breakups during House on 113 last night? I did a 6412 PVR recording, and it had an uncanny instinct for breaking up during the critical medical discussions.

My wife wants to ditch digital, and go back to videotape. I'm trying to differentiate between source problems, Comcast problems, and signal problems at my end. Thanks.

wareagle

03-02-05, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by drbenson
Did anyone else experience multiple breakups during House on 113 last night? I did a 6412 PVR recording, and it had an uncanny instinct for breaking up during the critical medical discussions.

My wife wants to ditch digital, and go back to videotape. I'm trying to differentiate between source problems, Comcast problems, and signal problems at my end. Thanks.

I didn't attempt House, but NYPD had a lot of problems again last night with audio and video. It seems like the only problems I'm still experiencing relate to the inability of the networks/locals to figure out how to deliver a clean HD signal. The DVR seems to be fine as long as the signal isn't corrupted, and I don't see it as a Comcast issue. Unless you give up HD, I don't think you'll gain anything with videotape.

drbenson

03-02-05, 12:35 PM

Yeah, I really will hate to go back to SD, but when the picture goes all pixellated and the sound goes away during critical passages, the HD show becomes LESS watchable than an SD analog recording which NEVER exhibits the problem.

burger23

03-02-05, 12:46 PM

I watched HOUSE last night, on a delayed basis, without any problems- that I recall, anyway :-)

artshotwell

03-02-05, 12:47 PM

I watched House last night on a 6412. Had no problems at all. But, I had all kinds of problems during the Oscars. Video freezes, video jumps, audio jumps.

edbolson

03-02-05, 02:00 PM

I just wanted to add a "me too" on the breakups during the Oscars.

ntaylor

03-02-05, 07:29 PM

Perhaps this has been mentioned, but I'm suspecting that efforts to record analog channels are causing freezes, hangs, etc. on this thing. Mine has been pretty stable recording a number of HD or other digital shows, but as soon as we tried to create a series for Law & Order on TNT (which runs multiple times a night), started getting fast-forward lockup (even with the software update) and other times where there would be delays over a minute in response to key presses. Deleted that series and everything seems smooth again....so far. Does this make sense from a technical standpoint? The conversion of analog channels to digital for recording somehow causing the system to become unresponsive?

wareagle

03-02-05, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by ntaylor
started getting fast-forward lockup (even with the software update)

What software update?

cliffg

03-02-05, 09:33 PM

I finally had my first experience with the "FF" problem (at least bad enough to be an issue) - except it was stuck on the slowest rewind ... powering off the 6412 and back on unfroze it. Quite irritating ...

In general, though, I've been very pleased with my two 6412's - no major issues, the guide and functionality is very usable (even if not quite as slick as my old Tivo). I love the HD capabilities enough that I don't miss the Tivo.

My short wish list, in rough order of priority:

1. Fix "FF stuck" problem.

2. Gracefully handle "recording overlap on the same channel" (unless this is already fixed and I didn't notice ... I don't think any of my current series recordings overlap while a recording on another channel is scheduled).

3. Allow a configuration option of "native hi-def format pass-thru" to the primary output configuration menu (I realize this may be a Moto box feature request rather than the MS software ... and it may have been discussed to death already, but I couldn't find the discussions in a casual scan / search). My projector (NEC 6PGXtra) has been setup for both 720p and 1080i (and will synch up appropriately) ... a few times I've switched the 6412 to one setting or the other if I know the native format of the broadcast ... and I can tell a difference. It would be nice not to have to choose between manually switching the configuration, or living with the slight degradation in picture quality. Of course the projector could be potentially switching synchs back and forth between programs (and something would have to be done with channel surfing) ... so there's probably lots of non-obvious considerations. But it would be a nice feature to consider ...

Cliff

timfierro

03-03-05, 08:28 AM

I just noticed that HBO is playing Deadwood in 3 hour blocks over the next few days. What I haven't checked yet is if that channel is the same channel that I have set to record Deadwood.

In itself, it isn't a bad thing. But if you are trying to record on that channel only NEW Episodes, you will have to let it record even though you don't want them, or cancel the recordings manually.

I hope the software gets fixed to take care of this soon. I believe some shows have their new seasons coming up and it would be nice if the Record New Episodes Only worked.

Tim

ntaylor

03-03-05, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by wareagle
What software update?

The update mentioned here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5180737#post5180737) but upon re-reading it, I guess it didn't address the FF problem. In any event, that seems only to be an issue with me when the 6412 is recording an analog program.

JasG

03-04-05, 10:42 PM

I can't tell if this has been mentioned but I just realized last night that you cannot search by channel - with my 5100 I often would pull up a list of shows on a single channel - say 549 for HBOHD and just scan forward looking for things to watch.

No such beast on the 6412, at least that I can find.

Suggestions?

artseattle

03-04-05, 11:57 PM

To search by channel:

1) Go to TV listings by a) pressing Guide, or b) press OK to get to the guide for the channel you are watching.

2) Press arrow left, once if you used the Guide, or twice if you used OK. This highlights the Channel (eg INHD 664) Press OK again and you will get a list of what's playing on that channel. Use the Page up and down to move quickly.

Art

KelDez

03-06-05, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by timfierro
I just noticed that HBO is playing Deadwood in 3 hour blocks over the next few days. What I haven't checked yet is if that channel is the same channel that I have set to record Deadwood.

In itself, it isn't a bad thing. But if you are trying to record on that channel only NEW Episodes, you will have to let it record even though you don't want them, or cancel the recordings manually.

I hope the software gets fixed to take care of this soon. I believe some shows have their new seasons coming up and it would be nice if the Record New Episodes Only worked.

Tim

Something I found from getting my channel guide corrected for my ReplayTV: The companies (both Comcast/Microsoft and Replay - possibly TV Guide as well) get their channel guide information from the same source, which is moderated by Zap2It.com. The 'New Episode' or 'Rerun' flag in the data is set at this point. But they get the information to set the flag from the networks / production sources. So you may notice that local stations set the flag, and virtually all cable sources don't.

Don't know who's to blame for this. Is Zap2It not pushing the sources hard enough to get the right data, or is it even possible for them?

jameskollar

03-06-05, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by KelDez
Something I found from getting my channel guide corrected for my ReplayTV: The companies (both Comcast/Microsoft and Replay - possibly TV Guide as well) get their channel guide information from the same source, which is moderated by Zap2It.com. The 'New Episode' or 'Rerun' flag in the data is set at this point. But they get the information to set the flag from the networks / production sources. So you may notice that local stations set the flag, and virtually all cable sources don't.

Don't know who's to blame for this. Is Zap2It not pushing the sources hard enough to get the right data, or is it even possible for them?

KelDez.

You're on the right track.

Actually the only flag for showing repeats is a flag called "repeat". I have worked extensivley with the Tribune Media Services data (Zap2it is the public version of the service). There is no other flag to indicate first run. The repeat flag is not being set.

It's my guess that the software is using the repeat flag only. There is another way around this. Most of these shows have an original air date. The software could be changed to use this to record only those shows that start on the same date as the original air date to get only first runs. You'd also have to take the first one on that date in the case where they repeat the same show back to back.

However, you could also have two new episodes on the same date so you'd miss one. So now you have to look to see if the episode names are the same, if not, record them both.

Yet another problem is that many shows do not have episode names so now you're back to recording both. Clear?

What a mess....

brente

03-06-05, 04:35 PM

not sure if this has been covered before (if so, take it as another vote to get it fixed asap)...

if you have a series scheduled to record and are browsing through the guide (or through the favorites mini guide) and find a program that is scheduled to record in error (e.g., due to guide problems the show is a re-run but is scheduled to record as part of a series), the logical thing to do is to press the record button to cancel the single ocurrence recording of the program - WRONG! pressing the record button instead cancels the entire series! this is just plain broken.

the correct way to handle a previously schedule recording is that if it is a single occurrence, go ahead and toggle through the options (i.e., don't record, or schedule as a series). however, if it is a series recording (as shown in the guide by the 3 record indicators), then the UI should change the status to not record.

tap

03-09-05, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by getoverit
tap... if microsoft sucks so bad, maybe you should go find an open source version...

I wrote my own DVR software several years ago for analog cable, and it works better than this. The FCC broadcast flag made open software that does anything with HDTV illegal. There is no computer hardware which supports cablecard, no HD cards for digital cable that have open source support, and in july the one OTA HD card that does have open source drivers will be illegal.

I'd switch to passport or iguide, but comcast gives me no choice! I'd switch to another cable company, but comcast has a monopoly and there isn't one. Just because the 6412 with MSFT is the only choice doesn't make it good, or even acceptable.

wareagle

03-09-05, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by tap
I'd switch to passport or iguide, but comcast gives me no choice! I'd switch to another cable company, but comcast has a monopoly and there isn't one. Just because the 6412 with MSFT is the only choice doesn't make it good, or even acceptable.

Based upon the problems I see bandied about on the AVS forums for iGuide and Passport, I'm just as happy to have Microsoft.

tap

03-09-05, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by kwickag
Based on my experience it looks to me like you got a bad box. Mine showed up last Friday and the only problem I have had is the occasional audio dropout when playing a recording. I'd call Comcast and ask for a replacement.

Give it time.

My first box would reboot isself after being on for 30 seconds. Took that back and got a working one. For the first week, it was fine. No lockups and the menu and guide speed was ok. But it just keeps getting worse and worse. It will lockup and become unresponsive to the remote and front panel buttons for 30 seconds to 30 minutes at a time. Sometimes it will just lockup in the menu when trying to move the cursor, sometimes it will lockup trying to bring up the DVR menu, sometimes it locks up bringing up the info screen, often it locks up while fast-forwarding, ruining the show you were trying to watch. The guide and menus have gotten much much slower. The channel list is now about half the speed of the painfully slow old black 5100 boxes. I can see each show in the guide updating one by one when I scroll down the guide.

burger23

03-10-05, 01:22 AM

tap
You are not experiencing what most of the rest of us are. My box works absolutely as advertised-- with a couple of known issues: the FF stuck bug; and very occassional audio and freeze-frame issues.

Perhaps you would benefit by getting yet another box...

kwickag

03-10-05, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by tap
Give it time.

My first box would reboot isself after being on for 30 seconds. Took that back and got a working one. For the first week, it was fine. No lockups and the menu and guide speed was ok. But it just keeps getting worse and worse. It will lockup and become unresponsive to the remote and front panel buttons for 30 seconds to 30 minutes at a time. Sometimes it will just lockup in the menu when trying to move the cursor, sometimes it will lockup trying to bring up the DVR menu, sometimes it locks up bringing up the info screen, often it locks up while fast-forwarding, ruining the show you were trying to watch. The guide and menus have gotten much much slower. The channel list is now about half the speed of the painfully slow old black 5100 boxes. I can see each show in the guide updating one by one when I scroll down the guide.

Mine is still not having any real problems. It did have the delayed remote problem you mentioned a couple of weeks ago. The next day the box had four bars in the display, I assume that meant it rebooted overnight. I repositioned it a little to see if there mught be a temperature problem and it has worked fine ever since then. It sits in an entertainment center so I think it runs a little warmer than usual. The hard drive is 124 degrees when the house is heated and everything is running. Maybe you are having thermal problems with the unit.

marks7012

03-11-05, 06:27 PM

This is weird.
If I switch to channel 2 then hit down channel twice I get channel 1001
everyonece in awhile I can view on demand shows here.
Last Saturday I was able to watch AVP for free.
the week Before Cat Woman was on.
There is not alway a show on this channel. Just every once in awhile.

I 've also seen other on demand show as well.

I've even talked to Comcast about this and their response is "Wow we've never seen that before, Your lucky." Even had a tech out to check my lines because of another problem and he basically said the same thing.

The other weird part is. Sometimes the movie will pause , RR or FF
like someone is controlling it.

Makes me wonder if there is some kind of duplicate of my box out there.

davegtestr

03-14-05, 03:30 PM

You are seeing someone else's VOD movie or show, just as they are viewing it, including Rewind/FF's. I have seen several parts of several movies, but the people REW, Pause, and FF it like crazy, so it's generally not worth it. If your TV has a QAM tuner integrated in it, you can see more than several of these channels around channel 90-94.

wareagle

03-15-05, 11:02 AM

- Multi-Year Agreement to Make the TiVo Service Available to Comcast Customers
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050315/tivo_comcast_8.html

Aside from passing the cost on to us and subjecting us to more advertising, I suppose this will at least pacify the TiVo fans among us so they'll shut the @#$% up. I wouldn't expect much refinement in the MSFT software in the next year.

amorsell

03-15-05, 11:40 AM

I recently swapped our 6412 with a new unit. This one has the exact same problems as our old box which leads me to believe that part of the problem is not the box..... Here is what it is doing:

The record light on the front does not work. It does not work on box 2 either. Does anyone's with MSFT software?

EVERY HDTV recorded program exhibits 1 to 2 second video (but usually not audio) dropouts. This is sporadic, but happened 9 times in our recording of Las Vegas last night. It might happen 2 to 3 times in a minute and then only once in a 10 minute period. Regardless, it is very annoying. Perhaps it is a marginal cable signal to my location? I am planning on calling Comcast to get a technician out here to look at things. I just hate having to pull out the big screen and have them muck around back there.......

wareagle

03-15-05, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by amorsell
I recently swapped our 6412 with a new unit. This one has the exact same problems as our old box which leads me to believe that part of the problem is not the box..... Here is what it is doing:

The record light on the front does not work. It does not work on box 2 either. Does anyone's with MSFT software?

My light works fine. Shannonv of MSFT says this is a problem in the s/w related to ID of some of the boxes, but is not a problem with the hardware. It should be fixed in a s/w release (when???).

EVERY HDTV recorded program exhibits 1 to 2 second video (but usually not audio) dropouts. This is sporadic, but happened 9 times in our recording of Las Vegas last night. It might happen 2 to 3 times in a minute and then only once in a 10 minute period. Regardless, it is very annoying. Perhaps it is a marginal cable signal to my location? I am planning on calling Comcast to get a technician out here to look at things. I just hate having to pull out the big screen and have them muck around back there.......

I have never experienced or heard of this problem.

boykster

03-15-05, 12:47 PM

sounds like a signal strength issue to me.

Rich

wareagle

03-15-05, 12:51 PM

Looks like the TiVo s/w may be optional:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050315/tivo_comcast_13.html

jimre

03-15-05, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by amorsell
I recently swapped our 6412 with a new unit. This one has the exact same problems as our old box which leads me to believe that part of the problem is not the box..... Here is what it is doing:

The record light on the front does not work. It does not work on box 2 either. Does anyone's with MSFT software?

EVERY HDTV recorded program exhibits 1 to 2 second video (but usually not audio) dropouts. This is sporadic, but happened 9 times in our recording of Las Vegas last night. It might happen 2 to 3 times in a minute and then only once in a 10 minute period. Regardless, it is very annoying. Perhaps it is a marginal cable signal to my location? I am planning on calling Comcast to get a technician out here to look at things. I just hate having to pull out the big screen and have them muck around back there....... The record light problem is due to a Motorola hardware change. It worked fine in the initial "Phase 1" 6412 boxes (Platform ID = 606). They broke something in the more recent "Phase 2" boxes (Platform ID = 607). Software providers - including Microsoft - have had to make software fixes to make the light work on both versions. I don't think we've received that particular update yet.

jimre

03-15-05, 02:46 PM

The audio dropouts I've found are specific to NBC/KING-HD - or at least that's the only channel I've noticed them on. The same problem occurs when watching live, so I don't think it's anything DVR-specific. Not sure if it's an NBC problem, a KING problem, a Motorola problem, or what. I'm guessing it's not a Microsoft problem, since it also happened on my 6200 before it got any MS software loaded on it.

djmattyb

03-15-05, 03:20 PM

I think the TiVO deal is that you now have the option to buy a TiVO box instead of getting the Motorola6412 box. Hey, if the TiVO can record 2 HD channels and doesn't freeze up like the 6412, I'll be buying one. Espically because I can upgrade the hard drive in a TiVO.

wareagle

03-15-05, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by djmattyb
I think the TiVO deal is that you now have the option to buy a TiVO box instead of getting the Motorola6412 box. Hey, if the TiVO can record 2 HD channels and doesn't freeze up like the 6412, I'll be buying one. Espically because I can upgrade the hard drive in a TiVO.

It sounded like TiVo software only (optional), in the 6412.

jameskollar

03-15-05, 11:42 PM

Before any of you blame Comcast for the audio dropouts on American Idol tonight, I switched over to OTA and the problem is there also. :mad:

jameskollar

03-15-05, 11:42 PM

Before any of you blame Comcast for the audio dropouts on American Idol tonight, I switched over to OTA and the problem is there also. :mad:

Mark1261

03-16-05, 01:02 PM

The frequency of audio drop outs in American Idol last night was so bad I resorted to watching in analog. Sounds like it is a FOX/KCPQ issue.

Does anyone have a technical answer for why HD signals have this problem? Is it a local or national issue? It seems like all the local stations have some degree of problem with this.

Mark

jimre

03-16-05, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Mark1261
The frequency of audio drop outs in American Idol last night was so bad I resorted to watching in analog. Sounds like it is a FOX/KCPQ issue.

Does anyone have a technical answer for why HD signals have this problem? Is it a local or national issue? It seems like all the local stations have some degree of problem with this.

Mark I'm sure it's a different reason/problem for every station. In most cases it's not specific to cable - the same problems occur on the OTA signal as well. Don Wilkinson of KOMO-TV gave some very helpful explanations of their particular problems over in the Seattle OTA and Seattle Comcast threads (for example, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4850839#post4850839)). Basically, it sounds like full-time HD is still pretty new to local stations: they are still working with first-generation hardware that's barely beyond "prototype" stage, equipment fails & there may not be a replacement available, there are procedural problems producing a simultaneous SD & HD broadcast (fogetting to hit a switch at the right time), they are still finding new interference problems (airborne military radar), etc. It's very much a work-in-progress.

cliffg

03-16-05, 04:29 PM

Last night I had my first (known) instance of a show not recording on my 6412 (so far, I've been very pleased with it, other than a few known problems like FF stuck). "House" on 113 didn't record, and there's no obvious reason why it didn't (i.e. no recordings at the same time on other channels). The only explanation I can think of is that the listing seemed to be inconsistent last week - last week's episode was a rerun, but had the listing for this week's episode (which was new). I erased last week's episode (or possibly cancelled in the middle of the show - can't remember for sure), but I wouldn't think this would affect last night's episode (specially since it was still scheduled until at least the night before). The series still shows up in Series Manager.

Anyone have an explanation / idea? Listing issue / screwup causing problems, or is something else possibly going on?

Cliff

drbenson

03-16-05, 09:42 PM

Cliff- has nothing to do with anything you did. I also have House set to record, also found (too late) that it failed to record. Grr. I've changed my series settings to 'new and reruns', since I'd rather have to erase one I've seen than miss a new one!

Maybe TIVO has better listings than the MSFT software is using- that would be an advantage! That and reflex compensation when going from FF to play....

Joe Schwartz

03-16-05, 10:33 PM

As someone else suggested, I've gotten into the habit of pressing the 7-sec Instant Replay button (instead of Play) to jump out of Fast Forward.

thesoze

03-17-05, 11:29 AM

me too, it didnt want to record HOUSE so I can pressed it manually and it didnt want to record it ON MY COMMAND! nothing else was recording - this was a very strange incident...

Roto

03-17-05, 03:36 PM

I recorded House last night, only because I happened to see on the listings that it wasn't set to record it. The start time didn't change at all, did it? I hardly know what time and day anything is on anymore.

drbenson

03-18-05, 12:10 PM

Joe, where is this '7-sec Instant Replay button' of which you speak? Probably just something I've missed, but this is the first I've heard of it. Thanks.

jimre

03-18-05, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by drbenson
Joe, where is this '7-sec Instant Replay button' of which you speak? Probably just something I've missed, but this is the first I've heard of it. Thanks. Instant Replay is one of the standard DVR button on the REAL version of the 6412 remote. Note that Comcast ran out of these DVR-specific remotes at one point, and was giving customers a "crippled" non-DVR version. The correct remote for the 6412 DVR is the one in the attached picture... it's got a big "MyDVR" button on it.

HDBrent

03-18-05, 01:22 PM

I can't seem to find this, but how do I get into the menu on this box to adjust the picture settings? Just got a new plasma and want to make sure it is coming thru at 720P.

burger23

03-18-05, 01:29 PM

Turn cable box OFF but leave TV ON
Immediately select Menu on remote control

HDBrent

03-18-05, 01:45 PM

Ahhh....now that is the way college basketball is meant to look! It was all messed up since I had it set up for a 36" CRT HD TV. Much better!

You will make my weekend much more enjoyable. Thanks for the tip.

burger23

03-18-05, 02:19 PM

HDBrent

I tried to change my plasma Panasonic to 720p-- not possible-screen starts to roll, completely unviewable. I am using 1080i, but 480i and 480p are also viewable.

So, while I am at it, what do all these different settings mean? And which is best for what type of viewing? 1081i, 480p,480i, 720p

HDBrent

03-18-05, 02:42 PM

Not sure I have all the answers, but if you go over to the plasma section, you will gain a better understanding. It seems like everyone is either on 720P or 1080i. Everyone has different results depending on the tv they have. Also, some of it depends on the connections you are using. Some have better luck with DVI cables, and some better with component (referring to HD). Now if you could just help us get everything in digital, all the channels would look good!

drbenson

03-18-05, 03:43 PM

Thanks for the instructions on Instant Replay. I have the correct remote, but never got the guide you posted, and had no idea what the round arrow button was about. I was afraid it would put the MSFT software into an endless loop....

amorsell

03-18-05, 06:44 PM

I tried to change my plasma Panasonic to 720p-- not possible

Not all HDTV's support 720p (actually many don't). I know my rear-projection CRT does not and only supports 480p,480i and 1080i. This is OK for cable because if you set the 6412 to 1080i in the menu, it will upconvert the shows broadcast in 720p. However, I cannot take advantage of some of the new XBOX games that are 720p and have to live with them at 480p. Many plasmas and LCD's support 720p, but it seems to be a bit of a rarity in the CRT world.

Now if you could just help us get everything in digital, all the channels would look good!

I have heard from two different Comcast techs here that they are going to roll out a digital simulcast of all of the analog channels soon.

jimre

03-18-05, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by amorsell
Not all HDTV's support 720p (actually many don't). I know my rear-projection CRT does not and only supports 480p,480i and 1080i. This is OK for cable because if you set the 6412 to 1080i in the menu, it will upconvert the shows broadcast in 720p. However, I cannot take advantage of some of the new XBOX games that are 720p and have to live with them at 480p. Many plasmas and LCD's support 720p, but it seems to be a bit of a rarity in the CRT world. Only the most expensive CRTs - like large direct-view computer monitors or data-grade projectors - can handle 720p, because it requires a much higher horizontal scan rate (45KHz) than 1080i (33.75KHz). Getting an electron beam to trace 45,000 lines/sec is apparently a lot more expensive than getting it to trace only 33,750 lines/sec. Not a problem for digital sets like DLP, LCD, or plasma.

burger23

03-18-05, 08:14 PM

So you are saying that my Panasonic TH-42PX25 Palsma should be able to handle 720p...hmmm. I don't see any setting within the TV's Setup. And, as I mentioned above, I ca not set the cable box to get it.

Which is better- 720p or 1020i?

jimre

03-18-05, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by burger23
So you are saying that my Panasonic TH-42PX25 Palsma should be able to handle 720p...hmmm. I don't see any setting within the TV's Setup. And, as I mentioned above, I ca not set the cable box to get it. Don't know. 720p from the 6412 works just fine on my Panasonic TH-42PHD6UY plasma, over both Component and DVI. I didn't have to do anything special - just select 720p in the 6412 setup screen, and it worked.

burger23

03-18-05, 08:56 PM

Which is "better"- 720p or 1020i?

amorsell

03-18-05, 11:11 PM

Which is "better"- 720p or 1020i?

It's not a straight-forward answer. Here's a good comparison of the two.

720p versus 1080i (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1573979,00.asp)

KelDez

03-19-05, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by wareagle
- Multi-Year Agreement to Make the TiVo Service Available to Comcast Customers

Aside from passing the cost on to us and subjecting us to more advertising, I suppose this will at least pacify the TiVo fans among us so they'll shut the @#$% up. I wouldn't expect much refinement in the MSFT software in the next year.

Unless I'm missing something, I think Microsoft has 3 options with their DVR-OS in light of the Tivo deal:

1) As you say, Wareagle, just give up and wait for Tivo to take over. I haven't seen MS give up very often in the past, but it might happen. Many factors involved.

2) Work like crazy for the next year to develop something competitive to Tivo's adaption of their OS. Might be possible, but it depends on whether Comcast allows home users to select their OS. This is behavior Comcast has never shown in the past, but they might surprise us.

3) Buy Tivo. They are currently lacking a CEO, so you never know.

- Keldez

wareagle

03-19-05, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by KelDez
Unless I'm missing something, I think Microsoft has 3 options with their DVR-OS in light of the Tivo deal:

1) As you say, Wareagle, just give up and wait for Tivo to take over. I haven't seen MS give up very often in the past, but it might happen. Many factors involved.

2) Work like crazy for the next year to develop something competitive to Tivo's adaption of their OS. Might be possible, but it depends on whether Comcast allows home users to select their OS. This is behavior Comcast has never shown in the past, but they might surprise us.

3) Buy Tivo. They are currently lacking a CEO, so you never know.

- Keldez

My comment about no more updates from MSFT was based upon an interpretation that ALL Comcast customers would be switched to TiVo. With TiVo as an extra cost option, I'll stick with MSFT -- personally I don't have any need for TiVo to decide to fill up my limited disk space based upon a "wish list" and I can't really think of any other features that TiVo fans tout which are likely to be present there and not with MSFT in another 18 months.

timfierro

03-19-05, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by wareagle
My comment about no more updates from MSFT was based upon an interpretation that ALL Comcast customers would be switched to TiVo. With TiVo as an extra cost option, I'll stick with MSFT -- personally I don't have any need for TiVo to decide to fill up my limited disk space based upon a "wish list" and I can't really think of any other features that TiVo fans tout which are likely to be present there and not with MSFT in another 18 months.

I can think of a few reasons why the TiVo software would be a welcomed addition to my box that Microsoft's guide does not have;

1) Record only new programs, and not record all episodes regardless of what flag that Microsoft's guide does right now.

2) Record shows from whatever channel is available, and not be limited by Microsoft's guide that makes you choose 1 channel only.

Those are the first 2 off the top of my head that would be nice to have, or have the Microsoft guide fixed accordingly. It's actually getting a bit annoying lately to cancel episodes that are scheduled when you already have the episode recoreded in the shows list. Why is Microsoft's guide trying to record it again?

I realize the software is not perfect, but where are the programmers and what are they doing? Is this software a dead product and we have to use the Microsoft guide just because we live in Washington?

Yes, a supported product/service guide would be a nice change.........

Tim

HDBrent

03-19-05, 11:30 PM

Don't forget about the Home Media options, the networking, and being able to schedule recordings from logging in over the Internet. If the MSFT box did this, it would be almost perfect.

wareagle

03-19-05, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by HDBrent
Don't forget about the Home Media options, the networking, and being able to schedule recordings from logging in over the Internet. If the MSFT box did this, it would be almost perfect.

But don't forget, also, that these features aren't likely to be part of the package.

Another consideration is that all the optional guides will probably be using the same program listings, and thus the series performance of each will be subject to the accuracy of the listings.

But since we're 18 months away from TiVo-land, it will be interesting to see what competition inspires.

timfierro

03-20-05, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by HDBrent
Don't forget about the Home Media options, the networking, and being able to schedule recordings from logging in over the Internet. If the MSFT box did this, it would be almost perfect.

While those are all neat options and something I would like to see in the future, I would settle for a 'working' software that actually does what it is supposed to do; reliably.

Add bells and whistles later, but let's get the current software updated to fix the inconsistencies and minor bugs.

And remember too, that just because there is some arrangement with TiVo and Comcast, doesn't mean those of us who have to use Microsoft's Guide will be able to get anything but the current guide.

I wonder if those with the Comcast guide (in the other 49 states?) have the same troubles with the software that we do in Washington?

Tim

jimre

03-20-05, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by timfierro
While those are all neat options and something I would like to see in the future, I would settle for a 'working' software that actually does what it is supposed to do; reliably.

Add bells and whistles later, but let's get the current software updated to fix the inconsistencies and minor bugs.

And remember too, that just because there is some arrangement with TiVo and Comcast, doesn't mean those of us who have to use Microsoft's Guide will be able to get anything but the current guide.

I wonder if those with the Comcast guide (in the other 49 states?) have the same troubles with the software that we do in Washington?

Tim Yes, go check out the IGuide thread. IGuide users seem to be complaining about most of the same problems we are, with a couple exceptions*. Which leads me to believe a lot of these problems are in the core Motorola firmware/OS or the EPG guide data - components which will probably also be shared by any future Tivo/Comcast implementation. Note that some of the IGuide problems seem to have been fixed with Motorola firmware update 9.15 - while we here in Seattle area are still running on 9.12.

* one notable MSTV-only bug I'm aware of is "runaway FF" - which I know they have a fix for, but Comcast hasn't deployed yet.

tluxon

03-20-05, 06:05 PM

Say - is there any way to access the Record Options menu when I want to record a show that started a while back and add padding to it?

For example, many sporting events go two or more hours and many of them run over the time alotted to them in the program guide. Many times I'm watching the end of a ball game or car race and want to be able to timeshift it without recording the whole show. I'd like to be able to join a broadcast about 10 minutes before it's slotted to end and start recording it to its conclusion. Frequently I can tell that the event will likely go 30 minutes or more beyond its scheduled time and would like to be able to pad the recording. Is there any way to do this from the program guide? Or is a manual recording my only recourse?

Thanks,

Tim

HDBrent

03-20-05, 06:28 PM

So far, I am just using the guide, scrolling to the next scheduled show, and then recording that one as well. Tivo had a little better interface to do this, but I have not figured out a better solution on this box. You can pad extra minutes/hours to a scheduled series, but I haven't found a way to do this for an individual, manually recorded show. Recording the following show works fine for now. Maybe someone else has a better way to do this.

nodrog2

03-21-05, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by jimre
[
* one notable MSTV-only bug I'm aware of is "runaway FF" - which I know they have a fix for, but Comcast hasn't deployed yet. [/B]

Is the FF problem inherent in all 6412's or only effecting a small minority.
Mine ran away last night and never did quit, I understand its a software bug but my wife is far less tolerant and says 'why not record everything on vcr as well'. We really need the fix, if it's out there, to be installed.

wareagle

03-21-05, 02:31 PM

artseattle

03-21-05, 02:37 PM

Via this forum, many of us put a lot of effort into reporting to MSFT and Comcast bugs that we found in this system. Has anything been done to address these? I greatly appreciate the tips that we share with each other but now expect software updates to be implemented.

Has there been any "official" news about software updates?

Art

PS: I've found that the FF runaway typically occurs if I try to FF or RW at the same time a recording is starting or ending.

livetoflyfish

03-21-05, 03:06 PM

I've had the same box since they were released back in November. And since then, the box has only missed one episode of Alias (which I think was a guide problem) and had the FF runaway only once. In the beginning I saw pixilation after I FF when I was recording another program, but that hasn't happened in a long while.

I am extremely happy with the box and based on my experience, I would whole heartily recommend it.

cykopat

03-21-05, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by James W. Johnson
Well I got a second box, serial numbers were only about 50 away from the unit I already had..and I am happy to report that so far this one works alot better

That's funny you mention it.. In December of 2004 I had my first DVR installed with the "FAKE DVR" remote.. I thought it was ok, kinda laggy..

But I had a second box installed last month in the bedroom with a REAL DVR remote..:)

Anyways, the new box blows away the old box in speed and responsivines(sp?) in the menus.. No idea why.. I can empty both boxes of recordings and schedules and the new box just outperforms the old box by leaps and bounds..

Now not to hijack this thread.. I don't know if anyone else notices this, but in my case. I used to have Direct TV using an Optical Audio out to my H&K receiver.. If the show wasn't in DD5.1 then I could choose Stereo 7.1 or 5.1 depending on my liking..

I noticed with the comcast box even if the show is not in Dolby D it's sending the signal to the H&K that it is, and won't let me move to a non-digital mode such as the stereo 7.1 All I can do is Dolby D EX 2 channel or Logic Pro.. Is this a limitation with the comcast Digital audio output? I have tried the coxial and fiber.. Both to the same results.. So the sucky part I have is watching House or Law and Order in DD5.1 and the commericals switching to 2 channel and then when the show resumes I lose like 3-4 seconds of sound while the receiver senses and changes the audio signal..

Whew....I just had to get this off my chest.

P.S. experienced my "FIRST DVR" problem.. Medium recorded and showed 1hr 1 min.. However, on playback it only plays the last 1 minute..lol.. I am no longer a virgin of the recording bugs.. I suppose I would have been mad, but since being a public beta tester throughout the MS Windows History, I come to deal with it.. In the end the benefits of the DVR for me and my family outweigh the here and there problems and letdowns..

timfierro

03-21-05, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by artseattle
Via this forum, many of us put a lot of effort into reporting to MSFT and Comcast bugs that we found in this system.

Am I to take the above that both Microsoft and Comcast read this forum for bug reports? Seems kind of odd that two large companies wouldn't have their own reporting procedures and a web page devoted to this top.

I have not found any official word on where bugs are supposed to be reported so that both Microsoft and Comcast get the information. Posting on web sites are one thing, getting action done to fix software may be a whole new story.

Tim

jimre

03-21-05, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by nodrog2
Is the FF problem inherent in all 6412's or only effecting a small minority.
Mine ran away last night and never did quit, I understand its a software bug but my wife is far less tolerant and says 'why not record everything on vcr as well'. We really need the fix, if it's out there, to be installed. Not sure. I've actually never run into myself. Also note, I just double-checked my 6412 version #s and I now have Page File version 25049. According to a friend at MS, this is the version that has a fix to the "stuck on FF" bug. Must have been downloaded sometime since I last checked a couple weeks ago.

You might check to see what Page File version your box has (menu->Settings->Cable Box->Diagnostics).

cliffg

03-21-05, 09:27 PM

Last week was not a good one for "reliability" on my downstairs 6412 ... besides the "House" episode not recording last week, something last Thursday night caused all of my recorded movies / shows except three to be deleted. I can't figure out why the 6-7 newer entries were deleted and the three oldest entries (all movies) were not. In addition, the Friday night Deadwood episode I scheduled (to replace one of the deleted entries) did not record, and I had to resort to watching it in non-HD (the horror!). By Saturday night, everything seemed to be recording (and not being deleted) as expected. There were some very quick interruptions in power Thu evening (not while watching TV - noticed while on my computer), but I would expect the 6412 to weather those (at worst, only drop a recording in progress). The guide, series manager, and scheduled recordings seem to be ok.

One other oddity was very sluggish response times for about 10-15 minutes the first time I used the box on Friday (i.e. after noticing something bad had happened). Once the sluggishness quit, response time (through the remote) was back to normal.

No problems noticed at all on the upstairs 6412.

My rating for the 6412 has gone from "very nice product, only a few minor problems noted" to something less than that ... (I picked up two of them the first week they were available).

I hope this is my only experience of this nature ...

(I can only speculate ... some kind of disk corruption? Did the software have to rebuild some internal indices?)

Cliff

akm3

03-22-05, 02:08 PM

Dropping Dish and Scheduled for an install tonight. Crossing my fingers for myself.

-Allen

amorsell

03-22-05, 05:00 PM

Is the FF problem inherent in all 6412's or only effecting a small minority?
I had a Comcast tech at my house boosting my signal last week since I was seeing all kinds of video dropouts on HD recordings. I asked him if people in general were having problems with these boxes or HDTV signals and he responded that the runaway FF problem was the biggest complaint they are getting. So, it sounds like the problem is widespread.

nodrog2

03-23-05, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by jimre
Not sure. I've actually never run into myself. Also note, I just double-checked my 6412 version #s and I now have Page File version 25049. According to a friend at MS, this is the version that has a fix to the "stuck on FF" bug. Must have been downloaded sometime since I last checked a couple weeks ago.

You might check to see what Page File version your box has (menu->Settings->Cable Box->Diagnostics).

I checked yesterday and have the same - 25049. If FF crops up again I will jump back on the board for any further ideas. Thanx for your answer.

akm3

03-23-05, 04:09 PM

OK First problem:

Got installed yesterday, running digital audio works great, except on the analog cable channels. We tried two different 6412's , and neither would pass analog channel audio over either the optical or digital output. The installer said it should work because he is running it that way in his house.

I use a Lexicon MC-1 so I *know* it can handle changes between PCM/DD/2 channel/5 channel/whatever on the optical ins.

So, was my installer on crack and the 6412 / MSFT software cannot run digital out on analog cable, or do I have something configured wrong?

Thanks brainiacs!

-Allen

amorsell

03-23-05, 05:09 PM

So, was my installer on crack and the 6412 / MSFT software cannot run digital out on analog cable, or do I have something configured wrong?
I'm using the optical output to my receiver and it works fine with the analog channels. Except, as noted a few posts up, it converts everything to Dolby Digital 2 channel if it's not DD5.1. So if you have your receiver set to auto-sense the input types, this causes 4 or 5 second delays in audio while flipping channels.

jimre

03-23-05, 06:02 PM

Works fine for me. 6412 optical to HK AVR-7000 input. Didn't have to do anything special - it just worked.

cykopat

03-23-05, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by amorsell
I'm using the optical output to my receiver and it works fine with the analog channels. Except, as noted a few posts up, it converts everything to Dolby Digital 2 channel if it's not DD5.1. So if you have your receiver set to auto-sense the input types, this causes 4 or 5 second delays in audio while flipping channels.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one.. My H&K AVR just auto senses on the optical in so switching between the channels gives me that delay from 5.1 to 2 channel..

I wish they didn't do it that way on the box..

HonestAbe

03-24-05, 12:33 AM

I have never wanted to smash a piece of electronic equipment more than my 6412 w/ MSFT. The response is sluggish all the time, but when you are doing anything having to do with HD channels (recording, or even looking at your list of recordings while the tuner is on an HD channel) it is just unbearable. Sometimes its up to 30 seconds to a minute to respond to every "click". I chalk this up to a lack of computing power since it is so much worse when you are on an HD channel. Tonight the box crashed and took nearly ten minutes to get back to normal operation. This was the first time this happened.
Is my experience fairly typical, or would it help to exchange my box? I see from reading older posts that some people have noticed an improvement. Do I have to set up a service call to get a new box, and miss several hours of work again, or will Comcast let me take the box to the local Comcast store and just exchange it?
Sorry to ramble, but I am this close to getting rid of cable all together and just watching DVDs. Thanks.

boykster

03-24-05, 01:54 AM

HonestAbe,

You seem to have a dud box.............

I've never had such problems with my 6412....I get an <occasional> slowdown -> sluggish response...but nothing on the order of 30 seconds...more like 1/2 sec or 1 sec.

I'd get it replaced.

Rich

amorsell

03-24-05, 02:16 AM

Is my experience fairly typical, or would it help to exchange my box?
I think your experience is atypical. While I've had other problems mostly related to the local HDTV feeds, I've never experienced a delayed response like you are seeing. While trouble-shooting my HDTV video dropout problems, I swapped the box for a different one (didn't help) by just taking the old one to the local Comcast store. They happily gave me a new one and there was no charge for any of this. Call Comcast tech support (877-824-2288) and ask for the location of your nearest Comcast store.

tap

03-24-05, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by HonestAbe
I have never wanted to smash a piece of electronic equipment more than my 6412 w/ MSFT. The response is sluggish all the time, but when you are doing anything having to do with HD channels (recording, or even looking at your list of recordings while the tuner is on an HD channel) it is just unbearable. Sometimes its up to 30 seconds to a minute to respond to every "click".
Is my experience fairly typical, or would it help to exchange my box? I see from reading older posts that some people have noticed an improvement. Do I have to set up a service call to get a new box, and miss several hours of work again, or will Comcast let me take the box to the local Comcast store and just exchange it?

I change to a music channel before I look at the list of recordings or the guide. Like you said, if it's on a HD channel it's mind-numbingly slow to do anything. However, it didn't do this when I first got it. If the box truely didn't have enough power, it would never work. It did work, but it just keeps getting slower and slower. Maybe microsoft it installing spyware for us? All the windows users get spyware, they wouldn't want us to feel left out.

You can take your box into one of their service centers, and exchange it there instead of waiting at home all day some time next week for someone to bring one by.

HonestAbe

03-24-05, 02:12 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I wanted to have a good reason to believe a new box would help before I lose all my saved programs by replacing the old one. Also good to know that I won't have to miss another 2-3 hours of work waiting for the cable guy. My wife is ready to pitch the thing out the window and go back to Tivo, but I can't live without HDTV now. Hopefully a new box will help.

livetoflyfish

03-24-05, 04:16 PM

HonestAbe: I would make sure you have an adaquate signal to your box. I haven't had any of the problems that you're dealing with and I have an amplifier installed where the cable enters the house. Just for kicks, I unplugged it and I started getting delays when switching channels which makes sense - the box takes longer to lock in each channel.

jonbird

03-24-05, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by HonestAbe
Is my experience fairly typical, or would it help to exchange my box?

I think your experience is typical. I have two boxes installed at different residences and they both get really sluggish when actively recording two programs, or when recording HD. And they will routinely lock up for 30 seconds or longer when recordings are stopping or starting. This locking problem is what is known here on the board as the "stuck FF Bug" but it really has nothing to do with fast forwarding. Any command you give the box when a recording is starting or stopping can get stuck for up to 2 minutes, locking out other commands during this time.

Jon

drbenson

03-24-05, 05:41 PM

Another vote here for atypical, and for getting your signal strength checked. My 6412 has the occasional (second or two) glitch on processing commands, but nothing like what you're describing. I got mine installed by Comcast the day after they became available. However, I did have many glitches in picture and sound, as well as response issues, before I took a splitter out of the line.

For a quick check, I would suggest turning your box off (with the TV on), then pressing the OK button. This brings up the diagnostic menu your tech will use, and one of the items (I'm guessing because I'm not there) is something like OOB Status. The correct screen shows the signal the two tuners are receiving, whether it's using QAM 64 or 256, etc. Key are the signal strength indicators; both should be reading 33+ dB and "GOOD" to get flawless- and quick- HDTV.

If not, check for splitters or other signal problems in the house. I found that if my signal strength was down near 30 dB, I had problems. if you have a clean run from the outside box and you're still not getting the signal strength, call for a truck roll.

My experience, YMMV.

tap

03-24-05, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by jonbird
I think your experience is typical. I have two boxes installed at different residences and they both get really sluggish when actively recording two programs, or when recording HD. And they will routinely lock up for 30 seconds or longer when recordings are stopping or starting. This locking problem is what is known here on the board as the "stuck FF Bug" but it really has nothing to do with fast forwarding. Any command you give the box when a recording is starting or stopping can get stuck for up to 2 minutes, locking out other commands during this time.

I agree that it's got nothing to do with FF, but that any command can lock the box up. Also, after the box starts responding, it will process any commands you pushed while it locked up. I've had it lock up on fast forard though an entire episode, then just at the end it decides to process the rewinds I pushed ten minutes ago, and lock up on rewind until it gets back to the beginning. I wouldn't say "up to 2 minutes", but rather up to 20 minutes. When it locks up for a really long time, it seems like it will reboot itself after half an hour or so, which has the same effect as pulling the plug.

It doesn't just happen when a recording is starting or stopping, but can happen anytime even if nothing is being recorded at all. It seems the more work the box is doing, the more common the lockups are. I'd estimate the the chance of a lockup when a recording is starting at 100%, while HD content is being recorded is 75%, if SD content is being recorded is 50% and if nothing is being recorded the chance is 10%.

HonestAbe

03-25-05, 04:24 PM

I had the signal strength checked shortly after I got the box due to the horrible breakup of HD channels. The tech put on a new splitter and ordered an amplifier for the street pole. I later found an amplifier in the laundry room that the previous homeowner had installed, which I plugged in as soon as I found it. So I hope my signal strength OK by now, but I will check the diagnostic menu when I get home.

NickFromWA

03-28-05, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by drbenson
For a quick check, I would suggest turning your box off (with the TV on), then pressing the OK button. This brings up the diagnostic menu your tech will use, and one of the items (I'm guessing because I'm not there) is something like OOB Status. The correct screen shows the signal the two tuners are receiving, whether it's using QAM 64 or 256, etc. Key are the signal strength indicators; both should be reading 33+ dB and "GOOD" to get flawless- and quick- HDTV.

How about the AGC readings? Mine came in at 72 and 73% (fair). What is it? Does it matter?

amorsell

03-30-05, 02:14 AM

Watching Amazing Race time-shifted tonight (it was recording while we were watching it, nothing was recording on the 2nd input at this time) on digital cable but it is a standard def show. Went to FF through the commercials after "the brothers" crashed their Landrover and it got stuck on FF1. I had to pull the plug on the box as it stopped responding to all remote and front panel requests. Plugged it back in and it started a new recording where it could. We then went back to the first recording and tried to FF up to that point (I would love a way to jump to a certain time in a recording like on our ReplayTV) and it got stuck again. This time, I switched over to another input on the TV to watch it live. The display on the box kept reading FF for about 5 minutes and then it reset itself. At this point, I'm ready to throw the f'ing thing out the window.

It's funny, I was actually considering writing a favorable comment here before this happened since the first half hour we were watching Amazing Race time shifted while it also simultaneously was recording The Office in HD. We saw no audio or video hickups during this time.

Come on Comcast / Microsoft - FIX THE STUCK FF BUG!

dsmith901

03-30-05, 11:14 AM

Deleted, I just realized this thread is reserved for WA only members.

amorsell

03-30-05, 01:24 PM

I called Comcast customer service about the Stuck FF bug this morning to see if they had an ETA on a fix. As expected, the rep I talked to had no idea what I was talking about and said no one in the office did either. They wanted to schedule a truck to come out. I explained that it was not just me and not specific to my box. I ended up giving her the URL to this forum in the meager hopes that it will get passed far enough up the chain for someone who knows something about this box and the software to review it.

The funny thing is, I had a tech at my house a couple weeks ago and he said the Stuck FF bug was the most common complaint he was hearing about these boxes........

I would recommend that everyone experiencing similar problems please call Comcast (if you haven't already) and relay your experiences. Maybe they will start paying attention.

metz520

03-31-05, 07:45 PM

I had nothing but good things to say about my 6412 with MSF software on it when I first got it. However, I also have noticed it getting slower and slower as I've added more shows into the record queue.

I'm also hitting up against the recording conflict issue more and more as I shift programs over from my ReplayTV box to the 6412. The recording conflict issue is because the software insists on padding the start and end times of every show I want to record. Even with a dual tuner I'm getting a lot of conflicts where I shouldn't be. How difficult would it be to put a little logic in place to toss out the padding when I have shows scheduled at 8 and 9, especially when they are on the same bloody channel?

Frankly I expected very frequent software releases when this box first came out. The hardware/software combination is only available in Washington. The software developers are based in Redmond and Comcast can't be making a lot of money off this box at $5/month. They would have been better served to have done this program as a true expanded pilot and done quick patches of issues instead of pretending this system is ready for prime time, letting issues fester and angering their customer base.

burger23

03-31-05, 09:43 PM

The recording conflict issue is because the software insists on padding the start and end times of every show I want to record. Even with a dual tuner I'm getting a lot of conflicts where I shouldn't be. How difficult would it be to put a little logic in place to toss out the padding when I have shows scheduled at 8 and 9, especially when they are on the same bloody channel? You may be getting the padding issue confused. The 6412 will pad any show if there is nothing else scheduled to record (if you only have a 7pm show, the 6412 will start recording at 6:58 or so). Now if you have another show scheduled at 8PM, it will start recording that show, using the second tuner, once again starting a couple minutes early-7:58. So far, so good- 2 shows being recorded, back to back, but on different tuners-no conflicts. Now lets say, you want to start 2 shows at 8pm instead pf just one. The first show will start early as I have just described above. The second show however would not start early-rather it would wait until the show that started at 7 ends, and then start recording at 8. No conflicts here either.

The only time there have been conflicts is when the network, notably NBC, has weird start times. But you had that same issue when scheduling your RePlay box. So nothing new here either.

I personally have 2 RePlay boxes and 1 6412. I schedule nearly all shows on the 6412-- but when conflicts occur, I try to schedule the non-HD shows on the RePlay. I also use the RePlays to create a backup recording off the shows being recorded on the 6412.

wareagle

03-31-05, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by metz520
I had nothing but good things to say about my 6412 with MSF software on it when I first got it. However, I also have noticed it getting slower and slower as I've added more shows into the record queue.

What gets slower? Is your record queue the programs to be recorded or those already recorded?

I'm also hitting up against the recording conflict issue more and more as I shift programs over from my ReplayTV box to the 6412. The recording conflict issue is because the software insists on padding the start and end times of every show I want to record. Even with a dual tuner I'm getting a lot of conflicts where I shouldn't be. How difficult would it be to put a little logic in place to toss out the padding when I have shows scheduled at 8 and 9, especially when they are on the same bloody channel?

Shannonv of MSFT claims the padding is "soft" (isn't used when it would cause a conflict). My experience has shown that to be true. Unfortunately, if you're watching a program on another channel the padding will be there, but not if you're recording a program that spans the overlap.

Frankly I expected very frequent software releases when this box first came out. The hardware/software combination is only available in Washington. The software developers are based in Redmond and Comcast can't be making a lot of money off this box at $5/month. They would have been better served to have done this program as a true expanded pilot and done quick patches of issues instead of pretending this system is ready for prime time, letting issues fester and angering their customer base.

I'd also like to see more frequent releases, but I believe the software is being developed in California. There is a Motorola firmware release (9.15) being deployed elsewhere, so perhaps we'll get another MSFT version when we get that. The last (only) MSFT update came at the same time we got the 9.12 firmware.

tap

04-01-05, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by burger23
You may be getting the padding issue confused. The 6412 will pad any show if there is nothing else scheduled to record (if you only have a 7pm show, the 6412 will start recording at 6:58 or so).

The padding doesn't work if you are watching something "live". Suppose you have show A set to record on channel 1 from 8-9, show B on channel 1 from 9-10, and are watching show C on channel 2 from 8-9 "live", but time delayed a few minutes.

At around 8:55 the MSFT software will blot out the bottom 3rd of the screen with a box demanding to change to channel 1 so it can start recording B before A has finished, thus needing the second tuner. When the DVR switches to channel 1, it will, in one fell swoop of MSFT genius, make you miss the end of show C and spoil the ending of show A.

Since show C wasn't a scheduled recording, as soon as you change the channel the buffer is lost, so you can't change channels and come back to watch the end. You can't push record and save the buffer, since once the "must change channels" box appears you must answer before you are allowed to do anything.

If you say not to change channels, your scheduled recording of show B will be cancelled. Since you're watching C time delayed, by the time it's over B will have already started and you will miss the beginning.

In theory, I think you could choose not to change channels, push the record button to save the buffer with C in it, then change to channel 1 at the time B is supposed to start and manually record it, then go back and watch the recorded ending of C. The only problem is that when recording two things at once, the 6412 is so slow that it takes about 10 minutes to do these steps and you only have a couple before it's too late.

markjrenna

04-01-05, 07:44 AM

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Did you guys get FW 9.17 overnight?

Al Shing

04-01-05, 09:21 AM

Several people, including me, reported receiving 9.17 this morning. I don't remember what this does for us exactly. If I recall, the stuck FF problem is fixed by a page version update, and mine is at 25049.

nodrog2

04-02-05, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Al Shing
Several people, including me, reported receiving 9.17 this morning. I don't remember what this does for us exactly. If I recall, the stuck FF problem is fixed by a page version update, and mine is at 25049.

I didn't check for update - but last night the record light came on, first time since receiving this box. Must be due to an update!!!

BEK

04-03-05, 01:20 PM

I concur that the latest firmware update (9.17) fixed the broken "record light" for those of us with Platform ID 607 (the problem I cared about the least). I'm hoping it also fixed the truncated (analog?) recording issue but that's pure speculation at this point on my part. Does anyone know for sure whether the latest Page Version or this new 9.17 firmware update is supposed to fix the "Stuck FF" problem or the truncated (analog?) recording problem?

In any case, it's nice to get some updates to fix at least some problems.

I stand at:
[Platform ID: 607]
Guide Build: 1.7.6400 (25066S)
GIOS: 09.17
Page Version: 25049

wareagle

04-03-05, 03:46 PM

I woke up at 2AM PST/3AM PDT so I checked on the Formula 1 qualifying recording that was due to start at 3 on Speed. For some reason it wasn't recording, and I couldn't get it to record manually, so I ended up watching it live -- then I checked the race recording at 4AM PDT and it was OK. (But I was hooked by then & watched the race live, too.) I can only speculate as to what happened to the first recording, but it must've gotten totally confused by the instantaneous time change -- the box appeared to think it was already recording every time I tried to record manually, but it wasn't. (It normally starts recording a 3AM show at 2:59, and there was no such time last night.) Fortunately I only have to be concerned about this once a year. Maybe I'll try another test when it switches back, to see how it handles that.

Anyway, that's my excuse for having slept in this morning!

timfierro

04-03-05, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by BEK
I concur that the latest firmware update (9.17) fixed the broken "record light" ...

Does anyone know for sure whether the latest Page Version or this new 9.17 firmware update is supposed to fix the "Stuck FF" problem ...

Yes it is true that my RECORD light now works also, but the FF bug is still present. An explanation I read before indicated that some times if you are recording and the disk is being written too, this involvement is taking priority so all other commands are not being fed until it is done with it's current task. I have noticed that sometimes when this bug hits, the recording or other function is doing something too.

Not to say I have noticed everytime, but I am sure to watch out for it now to see if the FF bug happens when nothing is being recorded to see if it is a bug, or if other commands to save were issued first and must finish before it can do the new commands given the remote.

artshotwell

04-03-05, 07:26 PM

I was hit by the FF bug last night. I hit the FF button while watching a video (you know...skipping through a commercial), but it was near the top of the hour. Other activity included an HD recording about 2 minutes to the end and an HD recording just starting. Well, the show I was watching FF'd all the way to the end (took 10 minutes) then the box shut down.

amorsell

04-04-05, 12:29 PM

No Information in Guide = No recordings
Last night we were watching a DVD and noticed that the record light (which works now) on the 6412 was not on when it should have been during Desperate Housewives. Upon some examination, all channel listings in the Guide said "No Information". Consequently, everything scheduled to record last night did not. This morning, all Guide information is populated so I do not know what happened since we did not lose power.

djmattyb

04-04-05, 02:24 PM

Old and busted : Motorola 6412 with 2 tuners
New Hotness: the Diego Home Media Center by Samsung with 4 tuners and a HD interface

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002229788_btdigeo04.html

jimre

04-04-05, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by djmattyb
Old and busted : Motorola 6412 with 2 tuners
New Hotness: the Diego Home Media Center by Samsung with 4 tuners and a HD interface

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002229788_btdigeo04.html Hot & vaporous.... how many years have we been waiting for this killer Moxi (aka Digeo) box? IIRC, it's been the "next big thing" for almost 3 years now.

wareagle

04-04-05, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by djmattyb
Old and busted : Motorola 6412 with 2 tuners
New Hotness: the Diego Home Media Center by Samsung with 4 tuners and a HD interface

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002229788_btdigeo04.html

Wow! Charter and Adelphia -- what a winning combo. And an HD user interface -- how can we live without that, Digeo?

nodrog2

04-05-05, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by wareagle
Wow! Charter and Adelphia -- what a winning combo. And an HD user interface -- how can we live without that, Digeo?

Any thoughts that Comcast will push Moto to increase capability - or better yet, change to the Digeo box.

metz520

04-06-05, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by wareagle
What gets slower? Is your record queue the programs to be recorded or those already recorded?

The entire box is getting slower. The UI is slower to respond. It takes longer to start shows. It takes longer to erase shows, everything is slower.

Shannonv of MSFT claims the padding is "soft" (isn't used when it would cause a conflict). My experience has shown that to be true. Unfortunately, if you're watching a program on another channel the padding will be there, but not if you're recording a program that spans the overlap.

tap said it best. It's when you are watching another show. Software should be smarter than that. It's a usability 101 issue.

I'd also like to see more frequent releases, but I believe the software is being developed in California. There is a Motorola firmware release (9.15) being deployed elsewhere, so perhaps we'll get another MSFT version when we get that. The last (only) MSFT update came at the same time we got the 9.12 firmware.

Frankly I don't care where the software is being developed. It's being deployed in the center of MSFT corporate HQ. While I don't think they are overly concerned about TiVo and Digeo deals, they should be concerned around their inability to deliver fixes of known issues to the end user. Eventually 2 way OpenCable will get deployed and the network will open to 3rd party providers. MSFT needs to deliver a high quality product to a user base that wants their cable system to be an appliance, not a PC.

Color me jaded after being initially receptive to the 6412 with MFTE.

upa123

04-06-05, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by jimre
Works fine for me. 6412 optical to HK AVR-7000 input. Didn't have to do anything special - it just worked.

I just received my 6412 last week and been happy with it so far aside from the small HD and the lack of 30-second skip button which I've used religiously on my ReplayTV.

One thing I noticed and maybe you guys can help me out with is the volume discrepancy between digial and analog channel. I only run an optical line from the 6412 to my Yamaha 995, and the volume in the analog channel seems to be much louder than the digital channel, so when I switch from digital channel to analog channel, the sound gets pretty loud.

Is this a setting I need to adjust?

Thanks!

cykopat

04-06-05, 10:05 PM

Join the club.. Same problem here, I wish they would send the DD signal before the show starts so I don't miss the first 1 -3 seconds of audio..

kwickag

04-07-05, 10:20 AM

From what I have read there was a firmware and software update last weekend. Hasn't happened for me yet. Anyone else in the West Seattle area that hasn't received it yet or should I call Comcast?

artshotwell

04-08-05, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by cykopat
Join the club.. Same problem here, I wish they would send the DD signal before the show starts so I don't miss the first 1 -3 seconds of audio..
You miss audio during the switch to DD5.1? It drops out briefly? I haven't had that problem.

timfierro

04-10-05, 05:42 PM

Is it just me?

I could swear that I go into the menu and cancel all duplicate entries for a show and all looks good. Then come back the next day and see these same shows back into a scheduled slot.

My guess is that when I take care of all the duplicate shows and cancel them, then I get an update of the guide data sometime in the night, that the software thinks it should recalculate all shows that meet my criteria for recording. Does this make sense?

IOW, if I have told the guide that I don't want Tuesday's episode of something and cancel that recording; I don't want the new data downloaded/received Monday morning to change that information.

The guide should only be showing CHANGES to the program data in which case maybe I do need to review it again. But right now, it seems like daily I am having to cancel shows I don't watch because the software doesn't work with new/rerun/etc.... yet. Even if that part worked, the software doesn't know that I have already recorded and watched a program that is rescheduled to run two days from now. That get's annoying.

Ok, so I ranted a bit. It just seems we have no choice but to live with it and nobody is even working on fixing the software. So at $9.95 a month, I get a fancy VCR; but it sure would be cool to have the bugs and inconsistencies worked out of the software we use for our DVR.

Just thoughts....

Tim

timfierro

04-10-05, 06:15 PM

I think another thing that is taking it's toll is the missing information for an episode. Since Tribune Media is supplying the data, and their web site has the information on each episode; why can't the Microsoft Guide also get this information for each show?

Sure, it does it for a lot of shows; probably most. But it still misses out on a lot also.

Wow, it might be time to turn off the TV and DVR and go do something else. :-)

Tim

drbenson

04-11-05, 08:36 PM

Has anyone else noted that Add Recording from the My DVR menu doesn't work properly since the last download? Previously, it would bring up the same menu as you get from Search on the main menu. Now- on my box- I get only four blank blue buttons, not a real list of options. Looks like the Add Recording button is linking to the wrong place.

Not major, I guess, since I can use the Search function, but I tend to manage all my recordings from My DVR. Is it just a botched download to my box, or is it a bug introduced with the last DL?

wareagle

04-11-05, 08:50 PM

Same blanks here, but only the labels seem to be missing. If you know which one is which, you can select one and get to the next menu level (I haven't explored this fully, since I tend not to use it).

SeattleBrad

04-11-05, 10:13 PM

Yep, same blanks here.

kwickag

04-11-05, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by wareagle
Same blanks here, but only the labels seem to be missing. If you know which one is which, you can select one and get to the next menu level (I haven't explored this fully, since I tend not to use it).

I called Comcast on this and there is a work around. Go into the settings menu select language and change the TV listings language to spanish. confirm and wait for a few minutes fro the new menus to load. Go back and switch back to english and it fixes the problem.

Interestingly, the Comcast rep told me that only "beta testers" should have received the download. All I got was a new page version, otherwise I'm still on 9.12 firmware and 17.18 guide build.

wareagle

04-12-05, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by kwickag
Interestingly, the Comcast rep told me that only "beta testers" should have received the download.

I have news for you -- we are beta testers!

upa123

04-12-05, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by upa123
One thing I noticed and maybe you guys can help me out with is the volume discrepancy between digial and analog channel. I only run an optical line from the 6412 to my Yamaha 995, and the volume in the analog channel seems to be much louder than the digital channel, so when I switch from digital channel to analog channel, the sound gets pretty loud.

Is this a setting I need to adjust?

Thanks! [/B]

I thought I should post a follow up to this. I finally settled down and tried to optimize my set up for the first time including my TV and the entire stereo system. It turns out this is in fact a setting I can adjust, not in the 6412 but in the 995(Duh!), basically you can choose to amplify the DD signal. Once I adjust that down to the normal range, everything is fine.

I no longer have problems with audio now. Anyway, thought I'd share...

drbenson

04-13-05, 10:45 AM

Update on 'add recordings'- the four buttons were populated last night. One is for an explanation of how to add recordings, one is to go to the guide, and one for searching (which takes you to the same Search menu we used to get). I forget what the fourth button does (not in front of the TV).

Leave it to Microsoft to make something that was one click into a whole process. If I'm a beta tester, let me tell the beta test program that I don't particularly like this step backwards in usability. My 2c.

wareagle

04-13-05, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by drbenson
I forget what the fourth button does (not in front of the TV).

The fourth button is "Add a Manual Recording".

rverginia

04-13-05, 03:07 PM

Kwickag: Thanks for the "resetting the record bar in spanish" tip.

As far as beta testing goes, anyone that buy's anything that Microsoft makes is a beta tester.

timfierro

04-13-05, 10:24 PM

Did we get a software update?

I ask because I haven't had to go in and tell the guide "not" to record duplicates in the past 2 days. Usually a show will come on, record; then record again during repeats during the week.

However when I get home tonight, I noticed that Dog the Bounty Hunter is not scheduled to run this week even though I thought yesterday or the day before it was scheduled quite a few times.

Could we have had a new software update and this is something that has now been fixed?

Another odd (but great thing) is that I have had no conflicts in 2 days!

I don't keep track of what numbers the box says other than I know which one is the 9.17 software for the box; so maybe I should write down the other numbers to see if any of them change indicating a software update.

Tim

billymac

04-14-05, 06:47 PM

still no way to archive outside the 6412 yet right?

artseattle

04-14-05, 06:50 PM

The only way I've done it is through the S-cable to a Super VHS recorder. The picture and sound isn't that bad.

Art

billymac

04-14-05, 06:54 PM

but far from HD quality right?

jimre

04-14-05, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by billymac
still no way to archive outside the 6412 yet right? Only way to "archive" recorded shows is to play them back over Firewire. With firewire to 5C-compliant device (eg, JVC D-VHS deck) you can record most anything. With firewire to non-5C-compliant device (eg, a PC) you can record un-encrypted channels, like HD locals.

SeattleBrad

04-17-05, 02:12 PM

Question about volume:
How do I change the volume on the DVR? When I change it with my remote, it changes the volume on the TV, not the DVR. And the set-top box doesn't have volume buttons on it. Sounds like a design flaw.

artshotwell

04-17-05, 03:44 PM

I think the volume is fixed coming out of the DVR. I feed it into a receiver and control the audio there.

jimre

04-17-05, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by SeattleBrad
Question about volume:
How do I change the volume on the DVR? When I change it with my remote, it changes the volume on the TV, not the DVR. And the set-top box doesn't have volume buttons on it. Sounds like a design flaw. What's wrong with controlling the volume on the TV? After all, the TV's amplifier & speakers are actually producing the sound, not the DVR.

wareagle

04-17-05, 04:56 PM

Look in here

http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/DRC400-425_UsersGuide.pdf

under "Changing Volume Lock". You can control TV and/or DVR volume with the remote.

moyekj

04-18-05, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by jimre
Only way to "archive" recorded shows is to play them back over Firewire. With firewire to 5C-compliant device (eg, JVC D-VHS deck) you can record most anything. With firewire to non-5C-compliant device (eg, a PC) you can record un-encrypted channels, like HD locals. Encryption and 5C protection are two separate things. Currently in many markets most digital channels are encrypted but most do not have 5C protection enabled. Analog channels also don't have 5C protection enabled. As a result you can capture to your PC many/most digital channels you subscribe to (including HD locals as you mentioned) as well as analog channels (encoded to digital by 6412). This applies to "live" capture of current tuner output or capture by playback of recorded shows.

jimre

04-18-05, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by moyekj
Encryption and 5C protection are two separate things. No, encryption is an *inherent component* of the 5C copy-protection system, which provides for both authentication and encryption. Not all 5C-protected content is encrypted, but any content marked "Copy One-Generation", "No More Copies", or "Copy Never" is encrypted. 5C-compliant devices contain the keys required to decrypt such content.Currently in many markets most digital channels are encrypted but most do not have 5C protection enabled. Here I think you're referring to DigiCipher or similar "scrambling" systems used by cable co's to prevent people with QAM tuners from receiving digital channels that require a subscription. This is another form of enryption, used to protect the data between the cable head-end and your set-top box. 5C - in contrast - is used to protect the data between your set-top box's Firewire port & other Firewire devices. I don't know about "many markets" but here in Seattle last I checked, Comcast definitely had ALL digital channels over Firewire (except HD locals) set to "Copy One Generation" and therefore encrypted and un-recordable on a PCCurrently in many markets most digital channels are encrypted but most do not have 5C protection enabled. Analog channels also don't have 5C protection enabled. As a result you can capture to your PC many/most digital channels you subscribe to (including HD locals as you mentioned) as well as analog channels (encoded to digital by 6412). This applies to "live" capture of current tuner output or capture by playback of recorded shows. Correct. Analog channels - which the 6412 encodes to digital when output over Firewire - are currently marked by Comcast with the "Copy Freely" 5C flag, therefore they are not encrypted over Firewire.