MSTV Foundation Edition 1.7 Questions (FEQ)

Information provided in this document is provided “as-is” with no warranties, and confers no rights. Information is subject to change.

Last update 11/14/2004

General info:

Exec Q&A: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2004/nov04/11-08ComcastMSTV.asp

Press Release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/nov04/11-08ComcastDeploymentPR.asp

Official MSTV Foundation Edition web site: http://www.microsoft.com/tv/content/Solutions/Foundation/MSTV_Foundation_Main.mspx

Motorola 6412 site: http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp

Hardware:

• I see 1394 and USB ports on the back, are external hard disks supported?
No, these are not currently supported and support for them is beyond MSTV control.
• I see an Ethernet port on the back, can I connect my PC to the cable box?
No, the Ethernet port is not currently active.
• Can I record HD on both tuners while watching another recorded HD program?
Yes, this is supported.
• Does the box support Picture-in-Picture (PIP)?
No, the current generation of DCT6412 hardware does not support PIP. It does support a scaled down TV window and Guide and DVR UI screens utilize this.
• Do the connectors on the front panel of the box, or the video inputs on the rear of the box do anything?
These connectors are not currently supported and support for them is beyond MSTV control.
• Does the DVI port work?
Yes, DVI works without limitation for displays that support DVI-HDCP. For displays that do not support DVI-HDCP, DVI functionality is limited to the options configured by the cable operator (MSO) and the broadcaster.
• Do the component video ports work? What about the broadcast flag or copy protection?
At present, the component video ports work and HD signals are not constrained.
• What about the remote?
The remote varies from area to area and is determined by the cable operator.

Pricing:
• All pricing is determined by the cable operator.

DVR:

• Can I record VOD?
No, recording of VOD programs is not allowed by the MSO.
• Can I record PPV?
Yes, once you’ve purchased a PPV program, you can record it.
• Can I record music channels?
No.
• Is this just the cable version of UltimateTV?
No, however a number of the same people who worked on UTV are on the MSTV team and Microsoft applied many of the lessons learned in the UTV product with MSTV.
• Can I pause or rewind/fast forward music channels?
No.
• What kinds of recording are supported?
You can setup EPG data-based series or one time recordings, manual (VCR timer) recordings, impulse recordings (from full screen TV) and pause buffer recordings (start recording from the beginning of the show if it has been tuned and buffering for a while).
• Can I transfer recordings to DVD or my PC?
No, this is not supported. However, you can capture recordings from the analog video outputs to a VCR or other recording device.
• Can I share recordings with other cable boxes in my house?
No, this is not currently supported.
• How many hours of content can I record?
From http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp , 90 hours of SD and 12-20 hours of HD – but this all depends on the bit rate of the content and there’s a wide range of bit rates in use. Real world use tends to be more around 60 hours of SD and 15-20 hours for HD.
• How long is the pause buffer?
Again, it depends on the content bit rate, as well as the way that your MSO configured the FE software. You can usually count on 1-2 hours for standard def content by default.
• Can I set reminders/timers that don’t record?
DVR boxes running FE 1.7 do not support reminder/timer functionality. However, non-DVR boxes running FE 1.7 do support reminders.
• Can I record on all channels?
With the exception of music channels, unsubscribed channels and Video on Demand, you can record any channel you receive.
• What trick modes are enabled?
o Pause
o Play
o FF – (3,15,60,300x default speeds)
o Rew – (3,15,60,300x default speeds)
o Slow motion forward and reverse (Pause-FF/REW)
o Frame advance (Pause-Pause)
o Instant replay (skip back a few seconds)
o Jump to live
o 30 second skip is supported by the core FE platform but most MSOs do not enable it and there is no hidden code to enable it.
• Does the DVR record the digital signal directly to disk?
Yes, for digital channels (HD or SD) the programming stream is recorded directly to disk without re-encoding. For analog channels, they are MPEG encoded first (so they become digital).

Electronic Program Guide:

• Can I remove certain channels that I do not receive so they do not clutter my tv listings and channel surfing?
Yes, provided that the MSO has not disabled this feature. Go to Settings-> Channel list and Favorites
• What can I search for?
You can search by day and time, program title, actor or topic (keyword), or category (kids, sports, movies, etc.).
• Can I view listings by channel instead of the program grid by time?
Yes, from the program grid, arrow left and select the channel.
• How many days of program listings are supported?
This depends on a number of factors. In general 12-14 days should be available at all times. Guide data and UI files are cached to disk as well so if you have to unplug the box or experience a power outage, your scheduled recordings, recorded shows and guide data are saved. All settings are also saved.

HDTV:

• How do I know what programs are truly HD programs?
Some programs on HDTV channels are actually not broadcast in HDTV (16:9, high resolution). Shows that are true HDTV shows have an HD icon in the program information region. You can also find HDTV shows from the main menu or the search menu. If you schedule shows on an HD channel, they won’t accidentally record on the non-HD channel.
• How do I configure the HDTV video outputs?
While the box is turned off, but still plugged in, press the menu key on the remote or front panel to select your TV Type, YPbPr/DVI output mode and scaling (4:3 override). Most HDTV users with HDTV capable 16:9 TV sets will want to set their box for 16:9 TV type, 1080i output and 4:3 override off (to avoid re-syncing between HD and SD channels)
• Are the composite video outputs enabled when the box is connected to an HDTV display?
Yes, the composite outputs (line out and s-video out) will display down-converted HDTV programming. Some video output settings will result in no on screen display (UI) showing on the composite outputs when setup for HDTV. You can use this to record programming to a VCR or to have a box connected to an HDTV display and a secondary SDTV display.
• Can I connect a 1394 display or DVHS VCR?
Yes, however displays connected over 1394 will not display the user interface.

Video on Demand (VOD / On Demand):

• What is VOD?
VOD enables users to watch programs and movies on demand. One can pause, fast forward or re-wind while watching a VOD program.
• Are DVR-like trick controls enabled for VOD content?
Yes, the same trick controls you use for DVR work in VOD except for frame advance, slow motion, or multiple FF / Rew speeds.
• Can I search VOD titles?
You can navigate VOD content by browsing through the categories listed on the main VOD page. However, general purpose search is not supported.

Managed Content Services (iChannels):

• Can I browse web sites or check my email?
While the platform does support scenarios like this, there is not currently an application for web or email use at this time.
• Why can’t I record two shows while browsing content?
The box uses a tuner to receive information for managed content and therefore you cannot record two shows while browsing this content.

.NET Platform:

• What version of the .NET platform is used for applications on MSTV Foundation Edition?
MSTV FE supports Microsoft .NET Compact Framework TV Edition which is based on .NET Compact Framework Profile 0.
• Can I write my own applications and put them on the box?
All applications are delivered through the MSO and individual users cannot upload applications to the box.

Folks, please use the iGuide version of this thread for discussion of the iGuide 6412 on Comcast. This thread is (will be) focused on Microsoft TV Foundation Edition 1.7 deployments. The east coast and midwest are not part of that at present.

As soon as I figure out how to move these off-topic posts to the correct thread, I will do so.

Thanks for starting this thread and maintaining the FAQ's, Shannon.

Edit: Done. Posts by DSperber and butvinik merged into 6412/iGuide thread, here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4622231#post4622231

I can't wait to get my hands on one of these boxes and I will post my thoughts whenever I do. As a loyal Directv Tivo user I have high expectations and am hoping MSTV FE can live up to them.

Originally posted by shannonv
You can search by day and time, program title, actor or topic (keyword), or category.

Will the search function allow you to search On Demand programming in the same way as when searching for regular programming? It would be fantastic if the search function searched across both regualr programming as well as On Demand programming at the same time from the same interface. For example, if I searched for 'Robert DeNiro', it would come back with all the programs he was in and allow me to see and select from the list of all available selections regardless of whether they were regular programming, In Demand or On Demand.

Also, will the new program guide have the timer function that the old guide had? That way, those of us who don't want to get the DVR service for every TV in our house can have the box automatically change stations for recording programs on a VCR.

Timers/reminders - not on the DVR boxes, but it is supported on non-dvr boxes running FE

Search VOD - not supported on this version due to a number of factors outside our control.

Before folks start complaining about this, trust me, we know.

Originally posted by shannonv
Timers/reminders - not on the DVR boxes, but it is supported on non-dvr boxes running FE

Search VOD - not supported on this version due to a number of factors outside our control.

Before folks start complaining about this, trust me, we know.

I know this is probably a long long way off and controlled by Comcast but what about the sharing of shows between two DVR's within a house? Is this something you can see being added anytime in the near future? Does the current software have the support for it if Comcast ever decide to implement this? Thanks for all of your insight.

See the FAQ above.

Not supported now. Support is dependent on moto hardware and firmware availability, a FE software update and MSOs who see a workable cost structure.

I am making this a stickie. If there is a widespread outcry against stickiness, I will unstick it.

Sonoma, do you know for a fact the current batch of 6412s don't support PIP? Comcast is saying they'll offer this somewhere down the road with a firmware upgrade.

The current hardware phase of the 6412 does not support PIP and no software will change that. That's not to say that all future versions of the 64xx boxes won't support PIP.

The press release didn't mention anything about the potential for future markets. As Sonoma pointed out (in a different thread), Comcast signed an agreement for 5 million customers and the Seattle area only has ~1 million. Is there any word about where the other 4 million subscribers will come from and when?

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
I am making this a stickie. If there is a widespread outcry against stickiness, I will unstick it.

What is a stickie??? I must know before joining or abetting an outcry.

Originally posted by nodrog2
What is a stickie??? I must know before joining or abetting an outcry.

No conspiracy.

A stickie is a thread that remains at the top of the forum’s first page. It usually contains pertinent information regarded as important enough to be viewed by everyone.

This is a quote from the KING story on yesterday's press conference:

If the Seattle test goes well, Comcast plans to roll out the same software to other markets across the country by early next year.

Wow...that's pretty aggressive. Especially since Comcast seems devoted to rolling out iGuide to all of its other customers. Is there any market (besides Washington) that doesn't plan on rolling out iGude? If so then that may be an indicator as to who would get it.

Great thread Shannon, thanks for doing this. One question:

- Will the DVR degrade my HDTV picture or sound quality at all? I assume that the signal is being compressed and decompressed on the fly - is this correct, and if so does it cause any noticeable artifacts?

Thanks!

has anyone else on the msft guide noticed that tuning to HDTV channels seems to be a lot slower now? I don't know if it's coincidence or not but since I got the new guide everything about the interface is better but when tuning to an HDTV channel (I think it depends on the bit rate too - seems to be related to content) the picture comes up pretty slow and the sound even slower.

I also wish that when you push "info" or go into an event on the search page that you could get out of the event without having to start the search back over every time... exp- looking at the sports section at 9am for college football, you have to go into the individual events to see what teams are playing, then when you exit from the individual event it kicks you back to everything in progress at 9am instead of wherever you were in the grid when you selected the event. does this make sense?

• Why can’t I record two shows while browsing content?
The box uses a tuner to receive information for managed content and therefore you cannot record two shows while browsing this content.

Does this mean that if you are recording two shows you cannot view the list of other shows you have recorded? If so, how (in such a case) could you ever choose a show to view? If not, what exactly does it mean by "managed content"?

thanks...

Also Hard drive is way too small. I'd say that looks to be the number one problem with this gadget.

To Jeff28 - what new guide are you talking about? If its the new MS guide, how did you get it?

This entire thread is limited to the MSTV guide and that is what jeff is talking about (he refers to it as the msft guide).

Some avsforum members are Comcast employees.

I understand he referred to the msft guide - in the Seattle area we've been told it is not available till next week, and then only on the 6412. If your bit about Comcast employees holds true then I assume Jeff is one and they have some possibly in test mode among employees

Will the DVR degrade my HDTV picture or sound quality at all? I assume that the signal is being compressed and decompressed on the fly - is this correct, and if so does it cause any noticeable artifacts?I assume that digital cable channels (including all HDTV channels) are recorded directly to disk byte-for-byte without being recompressed. Analog cable channels would have to be digitized and compressed on the fly. Can anyone confirm this?

Fun Stuff.. I also can't wait to get my hands on this thing :)..

Thanks OP for adding a FAQ at the first post of the thread..!

Last key from search results - yup, we know about it. An unfortunate side effect of decisions made LONG ago.

HDTV quality and channel change perf - the HD stream (and any digital channel) goes right to disk. When we tune, we grab it from live so we change channels faster than waiting for it to play off disk. I suspect that one reason this might be a little slower than on a non-DVR box is that there's some perf hit in starting and stopping recordings (buffers) on channel changes, even if we aren't playing from them. The video and audio being slow, however, sounds like it might be more of a signal strength issue since audio and video are usually right at the same time -- all of that stuff is between the firmware and the cable network, we don't do much of anything to affect this.

Managed content - No, this means that if you're "surfing" the news/info site that Comcast manages, that tuner is being used to receive the data and thus cannot be used for recording. You can be recording two shows while navigating the UI.

Originally posted by RScottyL
I just wanted to say that I am here in Irving, Texas, and I went to my local Comcast facility this morning and upgraded my box. I currently have an analog tv, but my old digital cable box did not have SVHS out. I just was unhappy with the picture quality, knowing that there was at least one step up I could use.
Anyway, I called Comcast yesterday to see if it would be possible to upgrade, and they said yes...just bring in the old box. So, I went in this morning and walked out with a 6412, You are in the wrong thread. Please repost in the 6412 with iGuide thread (also a stickie). I will delete your post tonight so you have some time to copy it and put it in a post in the other thread.

re: your comment about search

Actually, I need to modify my response. The program info in the top part of the screen updates to show you the descriptions of the shows you are rolling over in search results so you can see the info on the teams playing without going to the info screen. From info, hitting the last key does take you back to the top of the search results (that's the part I replied about) instead of the position you had selected.

From the grid, hit info on something, then hit "last" to go back to where you were in the grid. You can also hit the info key again and retain your position in the grid. You get to see the program description when you roll over items in the grid.

Thus, your described scenario is addressed in 1.7 today, with the minor exception I noted above.

fyi - I just updated the "FEQ"

Originally posted by shannonv
re: your comment about search

The program info in the top part of the screen updates to show you the descriptions of the shows you are rolling over in search results

OK, I just hadn't noticed that somehow... I guess I was just not looking for that. Thank you for letting me know. You guys did a fabulous job on this guide and I can't wait for it to be rolled out market-wide so everyone can enjoy it.

Originally posted by shannonv
fyi - I just updated the "FEQ"

From the 'FEQ': Yes, for digital channels (HD or SD) the programming stream is recorded directly to disk with re-encoding.

Shouldn't this be without re-encoding? That's what it seems to indicate in your post (#25) above.

Originally posted by shannonv
fyi - I just updated the "FEQ"

At one point in the 'FEQ' it states, "Can I transfer recordings to DVD or my PC? No, this is not supported." Later on in the 'FEQ' it states, "Can I connect a 1394 display or DVHS VCR? Yes, however displays connected over 1394 will not display the user interface."

I'm assuming this means that programming can be recorded live to a DVHS unit, but programming cannot be transferred from the hard drive to the DVHS unit. Is this interpretation correct? Any clarification is appreciated.

So who has actually seen or played with this box?

The Comcast CSR I talked to had just received his 6412 with MSFT 1.7 (that was Monday, 11/8). We scheduled our install for 11/15 in the AM. We're on Mercer Island. Sound like there isn't too much problem with supply, yet (then again, we called for install before the King5 story)? Anyone else able to get their hands on the actual box, apart from Comcast employees?

We do love Tivo... but I'm looking forward to the HD upgrade. Our SD Tivo looks like hell on our new LCD HD screen... and I'm hoping that the HD channels will, at least, look a bit better.

I called Comcast the day after the King5 story-- and my install appointment is on this coming Tuesday, Nov 16th-we live in Magnolia.

I am am an active RePlay TV user- 2 boxes and using DVArchive and 4 PCs on my home network- I have archived over 800GB of shows. But, I recently upgraded my TV to a Panasonic 42" HDTV- and I am not able to time swap any HDTV content (RePlay, as TiVO, converts all signals to analog).

So I will probably double-record most HDTV content- once on a RePlay, and once on the Moto 6412 box. Therefore, if I run out of space to view a show on the 6412 in HiDef and it gets over-written by a newer show, I will still have it available on a RePlay.

Hi Burger,

Your idea of using two boxes is not a bad one. Our Tivo is one of the models with free "basic" service and it might be worthwhile to keep it set up with basic cable for the same purpose. Since it is free... that is. Good suggestion.

My biggest worry with the Moto 6412 is the space -- 14 to 16 hours of HDTV content probably isn't enough... although it will do.

Has anyone seen these Maxtor extra drives for DVRs? If Comcast / MSFT have their stuff together, they will add this functionality to the 6412 ASAP. I'd pay $$$ for extra space... whether buying the hardware or leasing it from somebody...

Maxtor QuickView Expander -- an external drive... http://www4.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/consumer_electronics/forms/quickview_info_req.cfm

This drive can connected by Firewire, SATA serial or USB.

I have one and it works well. However, my next step is to try and archive. My theory is that this is possible by playing the target to be archived and recording via firewire to the PC using the info in the "How to record via 1394 firewire" thread. This could be done overnight.

Originally posted by Crescent
However, my next step is to try and archive.

Please keep us posted on what you discover!

Is an instruction brochure available supplied with the 6412? It would help ease the changeover.
Somewhere I read how to key in the 30 sec. skip, I'm sure it was on the 6412 but I didn't copy it down at the time, my bad. Anyone know of this??

Originally posted by nodrog2
Somewhere I read how to key in the 30 sec. skip, I'm sure it was on the 6412 but I didn't copy it down at the time, my bad. Anyone know of this??

From the first post:

30 second skip is supported by the core FE platform but most MSOs do not enable it and there is no hidden code to enable it.

Oops, that was a typo. It should have said "without" as you suggest. I'll fix it in the next rev. In short, it is a direct digital recording WITHOUT re-encoding for any digital channel.

My guide on my non-pvr motorola box just switched over to the MSTV guide.

I'm getting the PVR...err...DVR on Monday-but I'm happy just have this new guide layout in the mean time. seeing things 90 minutes at a time and having the cutaway of the show I'm watching is a big improvement over what I was used to (the old tan guide).

Hey Comcast/MS people, can anyone explain how conflict resolution will work with the DVR? Also, how does series recording work?

It looks like the "Smart Series" feature is the same as the Tivo "Season Pass" - the other cool feature of Tivo is the 'Wish List".

Does MSTV have this too?

From what I've heard from the Comcast reps I've talked to, the MSFT guide does not have wishlists. That's fine with me... so long as series recording (aka season pass) works as well as it does on the Tivo.

Can anyone tell us what different bit rates will be encountered in recording Comcast programs? Is there any consistency within types (1080i, 720p, analog, etc.)? Will the SD programs broadcast on the HD channels require the same disk space as HD?

I have heard INHD 1&2 and DHDT and I think ESPN have the highest bitrates (like 30Mbs+)

while the locals have around 20Mbs.....

I guess two more days and we'll be finding out :)

Originally posted by wareagle
Will the SD programs broadcast on the HD channels require the same disk space as HD? Depends upon how it's encoded. If it's constant bit rate, then yes… they could broadcast a black screen with no audio for the entire duration of the program and it would still take the same amount of bandwidth as something active. If it's variable bit rate, and it's a 4:3 aspect ratio program (which hasn't been stretched/zoomed), that leaves about ¼ of the picture area unused, which could theoretically allow the encoder to scale the bitrate back a bit (or else provide a better quality picture on that which is active), but not by much. However, if it's a widescreen SD source (or stretched/zoomed), that SD picture has been upconverted to HD and has as many pixels assigned to it as true HD would, so it would take just as much bandwidth.

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
I have heard INHD 1&2 and DHDT and I think ESPN have the highest bitrates (like 30Mbs+)

while the locals have around 20Mbs..... The maximum ATSC-spec bitrate is 19.363mbps, and on a 256QAM channel, there's just enough room for 2 at that bitrate. 30+mbps would only allow one HD channel per QAM channel, which would be no better use of bandwidth than analog.

Originally posted by Moorebid

The maximum ATSC-spec bitrate is 19.363mbps, and on a 256QAM channel, there's just enough room for 2 at that bitrate. 30+mbps would only allow one HD channel per QAM channel, which would be no better use of bandwidth than analog.

I was just going off of what CapDVHS tells you what bit rate its recording at.......

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
I was just going off of what CapDVHS tells you what bit rate its recording at....... DVHS tops out at 28mbps, but very few sources are available to make use of all that (that being, other DVHS-originals). If it's giving you numbers in the 30's, it's lying to you.

CapDVHS just tells you what's in the MPEG-2 video bitstream sequence header.
You can see values as high as 80 Mbps, even though the actual bitrate is
typically less than 18 Mbps.

Ron

Comcast is at our house right now installing our Motorola 6412/MSFT. Very much looking forward to this box and the HD experience. Now I just have to get all my "Season Passes" transferred over.

Comcast tech was very knowledgeable and seems to be doing a good job. He knew how to hook up the DVI to the LCD, and how to get the Optical cable hooked up to the receiver (I'm not home yet... ugh-work... and my wife wants to watch TV throughout the day).

Mine's up and running. There was an initial problem with not being able to tune digital channels, but this was due to some coding problem in my account for the new box. When this was corrected, the box started working properly.

The tech said the analog channels will look like crap because they are devoting all their efforts to moving them to the digital side in six months. So they didn't spend any time on getting the analog channels to look better.

GOOD for you! BUT - WHERE is your house? Anywhere near any of the rest of us?

TKS Michael

We're apparently having some initial startup box problems, as well. We are getting all the digital and HD channels, but the box is having problems downloading updates. Apparently some issue with grounding? or so the tech thinks. We can't record anything yet... so now we just have a fancy HDTV tuner w/o recording capability. At least we're moving in the right direction.

In addition, there is apparently some issue with HD local channels looking like crap if the show isn't native HD. ("white fuzz" across the top of the screen?). The tech says that it is that way for everyone... Oh well ;-).

Originally posted by platbr
Comcast tech was very knowledgeable and seems to be doing a good job. He knew how to hook up the DVI to the LCD, and how to get the Optical cable hooked up to the receiver (I'm not home yet... ugh-work... and my wife wants to watch TV throughout the day).

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Stop the press!!! Wow, the tech was really able to hook up DVI and an optical cable?

No way! :D

Useless post, I know, but I couldn't resist the temptation.

Stop the press!!! Wow, the tech was really able to hook up DVI and an optical cable?

OK... perhaps I am easily impressed. It did involve removing various panels from the LCD, re-routing optical cables, and messing with various non-Comcast equipment. And based on my prior experience with Comcast... I'm still impressed. I'll be more impressed if they solve the problems that are keeping the box from recording anything.

:)

cyberized

This thread is for those with a 6412 box- but with the new MSTV Foundation Edition 1.7 software. Currently, Comcast is only rolling this out in greater Seattle.

Techs usually just line up the old box with the new and move the cables from the old one to the new one, so they don't get the cables wrong.

My tech commented that I had every single cable connection hooked up, as if that isn't normal.

I tested recording part of the Haunted Mansion on Starz HD, and it recorded fine, complete with the DD 5.1.

I am having mine installed tomorrow morning. I really appreciate the comments of those of you that are having yours installed today-- kind of gives me a heads up on what to watch for.

The non-HDTV snowy channels is an interesting issue. I split my incoming signal- one to the Cable Box, the other to my RePlay Box. I guess that I can watch the non-HDTV channels through the RePlay (which, of course, converts the digital signal to analog). This will only work the the incoming signal is clean- but the cable box is screwing it up. What do you find?

There has been a discussion on one of the other threads about "old" and "new" remotes-- and the swap function. Any issues with this? Is the remote "Silver"?

Ok.. I was the 1st install of the morning and so far, I have to say that I am not impressed by the interface, guide, etc. It feels clunky, the guide doesn't display nearly enough area and you loose a big area of the screen for advertizing. Compared to Microsoft's Dishplayer and Ultimate TV interface, this is a complete let down. I've tried the signal through component and Firewire.. Both have a similar "visual feel" to them. Image quality compared to DirecTV is sub-par.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Originally posted by vidkidd
Ok.. I was the 1st install of the morning and so far, I have to say that I am not impressed by the interface, guide, etc. It feels clunky, the guide doesn't display nearly enough area and you loose a big area of the screen for advertizing. Compared to Microsoft's Dishplayer and Ultimate TV interface, this is a complete let down. I've tried the signal through component and Firewire.. Both have a similar "visual feel" to them. Image quality compared to DirecTV is sub-par.

Thx,
Vidkidd

When you say image quality is sub-par compared to Directv is this on analog or HD channels?

Originally posted by platbr
In addition, there is apparently some issue with HD local channels looking like crap if the show isn't native HD. ("white fuzz" across the top of the screen?).

Sounds like you are describing the closed captioning information that can appear if your display is at or very near zero percent overscan, or you're watching HD on a 4:3 display.

Had my 6412 installed at about 8:30am this morning. I did not have the program guide for over 2 1/2 hours, getting it about 20 minutes ago.
I only have guide info. up to 3:30 pm as of 11:10am.

I had been doing manual recordings of the INHD channels (with no guide that's all you can do).

It runs real quiet, the interface is fast. Analog looks well like it usually does. I don't think it is too clunky, though I wish there was a one-button DVR function. Probably because I have a remote for a 6200 ???
Comcast does not yet have remotes for 6412's. :( I have to hit the Menu button and scroll down and select DVR for DVR functions. It is EASY to set up a series recording OR search for keywords. A search for Las Vegas brought up more than several programs with "Las Vegas " in the program description, and I only had guide data for about 4 1/2 hours.
Tuner conflict resolution worked, as I had a manual recording at 11 and then upon getting the guide, set up a series recording for "The Young and the Restless", which was recording twice. Was wondering why I couldn't change channels until I went to DVR and checked it out and stopped the series recording for today which started at 11:10 and kept the manual one which started at 11:01.

I'm very impressed so far, but only have a little experience with Direc Tivo Series 2 at my brother's.

P.S. I now have Program Guide info until 3:30am. The Guide is fast, love it, it displays 1.5 hours of info once you scroll right.

picked up my 6412 this morning and so far so good. however, after an hour, I've got guide data for just today and tomorrow. how long does it take for all of the guide data to download for the full duration (12-14 days per faq)?

edited: ok, nevermind. it takes awhile. looks like more data is there after 3 hours...

I never had HD from DirecTV so I don't have anything to compare on the front. My Built in ATSC tuner is also Firewire device, so I'll be able to compare local OTA to the 6412's tuner over comcast.

thx
vidkidd

Is anyone else having trouble with the remote? My wife can't figure it out... and me being at work all day can't help. The best laid plans. I knew the switch from Tivo to Microsoft would be a challenge ;-) but didn't expect her to have trouble finding the "play" button. Definitely my bad.

I see there are no Pronto CCFs at www.remotecentral.com for the Motorola 6408 or 6412. Anyone want to share the wealth? Or do I get to write this one from scratch?

Wow, that's good news if true.


Originally posted by Al Shing
The tech said the analog channels will look like crap because they are devoting all their efforts to moving them to the digital side in six months. So they didn't spend any time on getting the analog channels to look better.

Here is a brief getting started video for the 1.5 release. It should be a good starting point. The last 5 minutes deals with the DVR. It may help.

MMS://wm.microsoft.com/ms/tv/ncta04/Microsoft_TV_FE1_5_Full_Tutorial_English.wmv

Here's a 2nd for anyone with a clean CCF. Please, share the wealth.

Originally posted by burger23
There has been a discussion on one of the other threads about "old" and "new" remotes-- and the swap function. Any issues with this? Is the remote "Silver"?

Just hang on to the silver remote if you have one. There are "VCR" control buttons that are used for On Demand, and among them is a round button that starts recording. I haven't tested this yet, but that's what the tech said. I don't think anything else is new with the remotes.

Thanks for replying, Al...

OK--I'll keep the silver remote that you described above. Now, there are 2 tuners in the box. Does this remote have a way to SWAP between them-- or will the TV/VCR button (bottom, left corner) have to be reprogrammed as mentioned in the iGuide Discussion thread:

1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the "Cable" button blinks twice.
3) Enter 994. The "Cable" button will blink twice
4) Press (don't hold) the "Setup" button
5) Enter 00236 (code for Swap).
6) Press whatever button you want to map the swap function to. i used the "tv/vcr input" button since it has no real function.

I just got mine and it has a button that say's "LIVE". It that the pausing live TV button?

Originally posted by rverginia
I just got mine and it has a button that say's "LIVE". It that the pausing live TV button?

No, the 'live' button returns you to the current portion of the live broadcast you're watching. For instance, if you rewind or pause a live broadcast then pressing 'live' takes you directly back to real-time.

To pause live TV, simply press the 'pause' button.

Ok,

Got the 6412 installed, still downloading guide data. However, the intallation tech had no documentation at all. Have a nice new shiny silver Comcast Universal remote. So far it seems to follow the TIVO logic for controls, but have I no ideal how to program the remote or use the MSF software.

Anyone know where I can download the user manual for the DVR and Remote.

A few answers:

1. All user documentation should go through comcast. I'll follow up with our marketing folks to see if we're going to post our "getting started" guide on our microsoft.com site.

2. Video quality and display of overscan VBI video lines on upconverted SD content on HD channels - totally outside the scope of the microsoft software.

3. Remote control - outside the scope of the microsoft software.

4. Swap feature - this is not currently enabled in FE 1.7

5. User interface - lots of this was dictated by requirements and reviews with Comcast. Microsoft has some control over the user interface but the ultimate user interface is driven by Comcast's needs, business relationships, etc. Also, the UI is subject to the graphics and processing capabilities of the box.

6. Guide data download time - Depending on the particular Comcast configuration, you should have about 13 days of listings received within the first day. Since we cache the guide data to disk, if you unplug/move the box, you will not lose guide data or UI files, as long as our file system protection stuff views that all files are there in full integrity. If you unplug the box while it is writing some guide data, then you'll have to wait for the files to reload.

7. Don't see any UI after 10 minutes? Make sure the video output mode is set correctly. Press power key (to turn the box off) then the menu button. Make sure you've got the tv type set to your tv type (4:3/16:9) and that you've got the right YPbPr/DVI output mode for the display connected to your device. If you've got an HD display, you probably want it set to 720p or 1080i (480i for SD). The 4:3 override setting sets the scaler on the box for SD content. OFF= scale to HD output setting. 480i = send as 480i (ie don't scale it) 480p = send as 480p. Sometimes the wrong combination of these settings coupled with a certain display configuration can result in no UI being sent out on the output you're using - this is all controlled by the underlying Motorola stuff.

Originally posted by dave
Anyone know where I can download the user manual for the DVR and Remote.

Not exactly perfect (obviously the guide is different), but this should at least be of some help as most of the functionality is similar:

http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp

The box passes all content through w/o any upconversions of modification to 1394 video devices. My Sony GWIII XBR's service menu shows what format the content is in as I change the channels. At least I can get a "clean" signal over digital w/o any worry of upconversions.

Thx,
Vidkidd

How do we see the extra thirteen, or just one or two, days in the guide.

Is there any way to get rid of the white diddling at the top of the screen.

Any thoughts on why I couldn't use component cables, had to go to DVI, this is going to my Sammy HD. The installer had no idea why.

If these questions don't belong on this thread I apologize.

Originally posted by nodrog2
Any thoughts on why I couldn't use component cables, had to go to DVI, this is going to my Sammy HD. The installer had no idea why.

I hope that's not a "feature" of the box, since I can't use the DVI. Anyone know the answer? If not, I'll find out tomorrow.

The "white diddling" is answered in my post above - it is the VBI and usually renders outside the viewable area on a standard television. If your display draws edge to edge (ie no overscan compensation) you'll see it on upconverted HDTV channels. This is not controlled by our software.

To see extra days in any guide grid view, arrow to the right or press the day + key on the remote (if it has one). Same as TVG UI today.

Component should work fine. Not sure why the installer did what he/she did. You should follow up with Comcast.

I also have some info on DVI up in the FEQ.

Originally posted by platbr
We're apparently having some initial startup box problems, as well. We are getting all the digital and HD channels, but the box is having problems downloading updates. Apparently some issue with grounding? or so the tech thinks.*cough*bullsh|t*cough*

In addition, there is apparently some issue with HD local channels looking like crap if the show isn't native HD. ("white fuzz" across the top of the screen?). The tech says that it is that way for everyone... Oh well ;-). I know others have answered this, but I thought I might go into a bit more detail (or is it less detail? :)) What you're seeing is called the vertical blanking interval (http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213677,00.html), the top 45 scan lines in a standard definition broacast reserved for various things, such as closed captioning. Normally those lines are hidden by the television's natural overscan (which refers to the amount of picture off the sides of the "tube" that is not displayed), but LCD's have no overscan. Additionally, when broadcasters upconvert their SD programming to HD, they usually leave that information there for legacy receivers which can only decode the old style of closed captioning, so you'll likely be seeing that stuff for some time to come. However, HD broadcasts use a different style of closed captioning, one which is not visible within the picture, so you shouldn't see it in HD broadcasts.

Can anyone comment on using more than one of these boxes in the same room? If the box is recording does it function as if it is on and respond to IR commands? I'm wondering if you could put two in the same room with one on and one off and use the power toggle to switch between them. Anyone know if this would work?

Thanks,
Mark

Well, having spent an evening with the new MSFT 6412 I'm pretty impressed. The interface is really quite good -- comparing it to Tivo Series 2 there are a lot of things I like better. The Guide itself is great -- very easy to use. Coming from the Toshiba SDH-400 Tivo/DVD, which lacks the "grid" style guide, I'm pleased to have the grid-style guide back. Also, although the advertising is irritating when you first press guide... it is nice that it goes away when you scroll right.

Things I like:
- One-press record & two-press series record. It would be great if there were some button you could press when you are over a series record to adjust the series record options.
- How record & series-record are displayed on the grid.
- Two tuners.
- Menu changing speed. Very fast (much quicker than my Tivo Series 2).

Things that could be better
- It takes too many button presses to change series options. When an option is selected it would be cool if you could just press left or right to adjust (ala Tivo).
- 30 sec. skip.
- Better determinations as to which shows are "new." Before changing it manually, I had 5 episodes of the same "Trading Spaces HD" set to record, with "new only" set.
- More ability to change series record options when I press record-record from the grid.
- A little "HD" icon on the grid for HD shows would be cool.

Overall, however, this is an outstanding implementation. MSFT has done a number of things right and seems to have the right options for my needs. I'm impressed.

Well, the Comcast tech just left. The actual installation was extremely easy. I just unplugged the cords from the old 6200 box, and plugged them into the new 6412 box- the back of each box was identical.

But when I turned on the HDTV, selected Menu, the guide was malformed- it went about 2/3 across the page (left to right) and then started over again from the left. The installer had no idea on what to do—fortunately I did! I powered OFF the cable box, and selected Menu on the remote to get the USER SETTINGS screen . Use arrows to move cursor down, then over. Set TYPE to 16:9, YPbPr Output to 1080I, and 4:3 Override to 480P (or OFF ). By default, the 6412 apparently powers up to TV Type: 4:3—this needs to be changed to 16:9 to fix my problem.

All else seems to be fine—I do not have a LCD screen so I am not experiencing the white chatter at the top of the screen on SD programs that others have talked about (vertical blanking interval) . As others have mentioned, the MSFT interface appears to be great—much better than the old. There is a red light that is visible on the cable box when something is being recorded- this is a good feature. I will play with this box for a day or two and report back

Anyone got screenshots of the MS interface?

Fitzwest posted this presentation of the 1.5 MSFT software, which is pretty close to the 1.7. We found it helpful.

MMS://wm.microsoft.com/ms/tv/ncta04/Microsoft_TV_FE1_5_Full_Tutorial_English.wmv

Thanks.

Lanny,

You are in the wrong thread. Try the Comcast 6412 / iGuide thread.

Anyone know if the 6412 is currently available in the Spokane area?

I would think so based on the press release and conference last week, which referenced the entirety of Washington State, but would like confirmation.

Can recordings be truncated? For example, if I have a timed recording for a football game set up for 4 hours while I am out of town and the actual game time is 3:15, can the last 45 minutes be deleted to save space on the hard drive?

If not possible with 1.7, might it be possible with a future revision of firmware, software or both?

If not possible with the 6412 hardware, are there any DVR's out there that have this capability?

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
Anyone know if the 6412 is currently available in the Spokane area?

I would think so based on the press release and conference last week, which referenced the entirety of Washington State, but would like confirmation.

My two are scheduled to be installed Thursday between 3pm and 7pm.

I have a companion question to the one asked about truncating recordings. If I select a variable length event (such as a ballgame) for recording, will the recording continue until the broadcast ends?

How do I find out where my local comcast installer is? I live in Bellevue.

Thanks

Can I transfer pictures to the DVR?
I use my Replay to show a slideshow of digital pics on my SD TV. It would be cool to have this available now on HD.

Originally posted by asherkobin
How do I find out where my local comcast installer is? I live in Bellevue.

Thanks

1-800-comcast or www.comcast.com (http://www.comcast.com/)

The office is located at 14870 NE 95th Street, Redmond.

hinten

Not possible to transfer pictures. I miss my RePlays already. There is no 30-second skip or x-minute advance. The only way through commercials is to fast forward. It looks like a hit/miss proposition. I am over shooting or under shooting. Maybe I'll get used to it. Someone will probably write a macro-- but I am using a Harmony 676 universal remote which does not accept macros.

Anyone have a JP1 remote upgrade available yet for the 6412 ? I looked through the JP1 Files on Yahoo and didn't see one. I saw the 6208 codes but aren't sure they will work with the 6412.

Darryl

I saw this post on the iGuide Forum

Here is the exact procedure to program a swap or 30 second skip to the remote.

1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote to put it into Cable Box control mode.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the "Cable" button blinks twice.
3) Type in the code 994. The "Cable" button will blink twice
4) Press (do not hold) the "Setup" button
5) Type in the code 00173 (for 30 second Skip).
6) Press whatever button you want to map the skip or swap function to.

I tried this, using the FAV button. No luck. I then found the codes
here (http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?cbl_0476) and tried the STOP function, 00174. It DID work. So, 00173 works with the 6412 and iGuide software--but not with the 6412 with MSTV FE 1.7 software.

Ideas, anyone??

I got a conflict trying to record Lost - it shows as 8:00 to 9:01 giving me an overlap. Is there any way to correct this type of thing? Can the start time of a show be varied or is 5 min the smallest increment?

I set up Lost to start at the published time and pad the end by 5 minutes. That should cover it. With two tuners there shouldn't be any conflict, unless you're trying to record three things at once.

Any way to bypass the encoder to watch the live, uncompressed picture for analog channels? It seems to me the analog PQ on the 6412 is worse than the 6200 it replaced, and I'd guess this is due to the MPEG2 compression loss. My ReplayTV has a "Bypass" button for this purpose - how about the 6412 running MSTV? Thanks.

This is a well known NBC trick-- been causing problems with RePlay/TiVO users for a long time. No work around except to schedule back-to-back NBC shows- or pad as described above (but then you can record nothing between 9 and 9:30/10)

ADDITION to my post at bottom of previous page regarding 30-second fast forward:

The remote control unit that Comcast left me is called a Comcast Custom DVR 3-Device Universal Remote Control.

A few more answers-

:01 and :59 shows and truncating record requests - no way to record less than the scheduled time today. In the case of the :01 overlap, this should only impact you if you are tuner constrained at the overlap time. If this is the case, you can setup a manual recording for the non overlap time to record the show. I know, it's not ideal but with two tuners this will hopefully mitigate. Another option is to see if one of the shows airs at an alternate time. Some of the ABC shows re-run on Saturday night. The final option is to manually stop the earlier recording early/start the other one later (ie you manually tell the box to stop 2 minutes before the scheduled end time).

Truncating recorded shows - sorry, this is not currently supported due to reasons outside of MSTV control.

Bypassing MPEG encoder on analog channels - not currently supported and beyond MSTV control.

New/Re-run show handling - as you might imagine, we're at the mercy of the EPG data (and the networks reporting to the EPG data companies). If we record one and the guide data has enough information for us to determine that the others are duplicates, the others will not record.

Am I the first one to notice that Comcast Seattle can't map their own channels properly in the 6412 MSTV Guide? 110 is listed as KTWB-DT, when actually it is KCTS Kids during the day, off at night. The actial WB digital channel is 114, listed as ABC News Now. ABC News is actually on 115, listed as No Information.

Guess no one else has the same lowbrow tastes- discovered this while trying to set up recording for Blue Collar TV.

Other than that, I like my new 6412! So lovely not to be a slave to schedule if I want to watch something in HDTV.

Originally posted by drbenson
Am I the first one to notice that Comcast Seattle can't map their own channels properly in the 6412 MSTV Guide? 110 is listed as KTWB-DT, when actually it is KCTS Kids during the day, off at night. The actial WB digital channel is 114, listed as ABC News Now. ABC News is actually on 115, listed as No Information.


Well, I see KTWB-DT on 110, ABC News on 114, and KCTS Kids on 119 -- just as I did before the box switch. Don't know how yours could be different.

What I want to know is when KIRO & CBS will be available in HD. I called Comcast for some info and they said Kiro isn't broadcasting in HD... but that is flat wrong, as they have an over the air signal available in HD.

Anyone have any inside information on when CBS will be on in HD in the Seattle area? I want CSI in HD -- I hear the corpses are amazing ;-).

Originally posted by drbenson
Am I the first one to notice that Comcast Seattle can't map their own channels properly in the 6412 MSTV Guide? 110 is listed as KTWB-DT, when actually it is KCTS Kids during the day, off at night. The actial WB digital channel is 114, listed as ABC News Now. ABC News is actually on 115, listed as No Information. Same answer as the other thread - your box has correct channel mappings for Seattle/Eastside. Seems your new box is configured for Seattle, not Kitsap...

Originally posted by platbr
What I want to know is when KIRO & CBS will be available in HD. I called Comcast for some info and they said Kiro isn't broadcasting in HD... but that is flat wrong, as they have an over the air signal available in HD.

Anyone have any inside information on when CBS will be on in HD in the Seattle area? I want CSI in HD -- I hear the corpses are amazing ;-). CBS-HD will be available on Seattle Comcast in Q1, 2003. No, that's not a typo - that's what they originally told us. Obviously it never happened. If you're really interested, please go back & read the HUNDREDS of posts on this topic in the Seattle/Comcast thread. It has nothing to do with MS-TV and therefore doesn't belong in this thread.

LAMEST feature so far in the new guide:

Search by Program Title
enter "WEST WING"
No matches!

Search by Program Title
enter "THE WEST WING"
Oh OF COURSE! There it is, filed under "T". BRILLIANT!

Non-obvious workaround:

Search by Actor or Topic
enter "WEST WING"
Finds it just fine!

Moral of the story: Search by Program Title is useless. It's a very literal "starts with..." search on the title field only. Search by Actor or Topic appears to be more useful; it's a "contains..." search across several fields. Probably should be called Search by Actor or Keyword

Originally posted by jimre
LAMEST feature so far in the new guide:

Search by Program Title
enter "WEST WING"
No matches!

Search by Program Title
enter "THE WEST WING"
Oh OF COURSE! There it is, filed under "T". BRILLIANT!

Non-obvious workaround:

Search by Actor or Topic
enter "WEST WING"
Finds it just fine!

Moral of the story: Search by Program Title is useless. It's a very literal "starts with..." search on the title field only. Search by Actor or Topic appears to be more useful; it's a "contains..." search across several fields. Probably should be called Search by Actor or Keyword


I found the same thing last night with THE amazing race.

First I want to say i'm fairly impressed with the new guide/DVR. I need to spend some more time with it before making comments but I have one thing I wanted to throw out there. Has anyone thought about an easy way to have a DVR on more then two tvs? Here is my dillema. We watch tv in our living room on a RPTV HDTV and in our bedroom on a smaller SDTV. Due to some conflicts we have already come across I would like to have two DVRs. The easiest solution would be to put one DVR in the living room and one in the bedroom. The problem that arises is there is no way to share shows between the boxes. You could also record the same thing on both dvrs but that becomes a managing nightmare. I could put both boxes in the living room and modulate the signal upstairs but is there a way to assign a remote to a specific box? This problem even becomes more complicated if I get a HDTV in my bedroom. Any ideas? I feel like the way these boxes are designed they make it hard to have more then one DVR in the home. At $9.95/month/box I would think they would want to make it convienent for a subscriber to have as many DVRs as they want.

Thanks for the workaround, jimre.

You can imagine my troubles when trying to find The Fog of War last night. All I could remember was that War was in the title.

My guess is that the Search by Program Title feature was intentioned designed the way it is. It is faster if you know the exact title. But is is definitely not intuitive that you need to go to Search by Actor or Topic if you do not have complete info on the show.

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
First I want to say i'm fairly impressed with the new guide/DVR. I need to spend some more time with it before making comments but I have one thing I wanted to throw out there. Has anyone thought about an easy way to have a DVR on more then two tvs? Here is my dillema. We watch tv in our living room on a RPTV HDTV and in our bedroom on a smaller SDTV. Due to some conflicts we have already come across I would like to have two DVRs. The easiest solution would be to put one DVR in the living room and one in the bedroom. The problem that arises is there is no way to share shows between the boxes. You could also record the same thing on both dvrs but that becomes a managing nightmare. I could put both boxes in the living room and modulate the signal upstairs but is there a way to assign a remote to a specific box? This problem even becomes more complicated if I get a HDTV in my bedroom. Any ideas? I feel like the way these boxes are designed they make it hard to have more then one DVR in the home. At $9.95/month/box I would think they would want to make it convienent for a subscriber to have as many DVRs as they want. I've been spoiled by the network/sharing features of my ReplayTV boxes - so far this is the single thing I miss the most with the 6412, although I'm obviously willing to overlook this to get HD recording. There is an ethernet port on the 6412, but it's not enabled; "intended for future use" the manual says. I don't imagine ethernet is real high on their priority list. Also, can you imagine all the Comcast CATV installers having to become cross-trained in networking ("uh, let's see - I think you need a splitter on that DHCP thingy...")?

I don't know if there's any way to assign unique remote/IR codes for the 6412 boxes. A complicated (but attractively geeky) solution is PC-controlled IR-blaster box that has individually-addressable IR ports. Something like the Global Cache GC-100 (http://www.globalcache.com/products/gc-index.html).

Originally posted by dave
Anyone know where I can download the user manual for the DVR and Remote.

While it's not the user manual, I did find a useful help video for the DVR in the OnDemand section last night. It's listed under the 'Help & Services' category.

Shannon,

Didn't see this mentioned yet. Sorry if I overlooked it. Is there any wildcard capability available in the searches?

Originally posted by jimre
If you're really interested, please go back & read the HUNDREDS of posts on this topic in the Seattle/Comcast thread. It has nothing to do with MS-TV and therefore doesn't belong in this thread.

Not to diminish the importance of the issue, but this topic is really starting to warrant it's own thread IMHO rather than continue to come up and generate the same posts over and over in the general Seattle thread.

Originally posted by jimre
I've been spoiled by the network/sharing features of my ReplayTV boxes - so far this is the single thing I miss the most with the 6412, although I'm obviously willing to overlook this to get HD recording. There is an ethernet port on the 6412, but it's not enabled; "intended for future use" the manual says. I don't imagine ethernet is real high on their priority list. Also, can you imagine all the Comcast CATV installers having to become cross-trained in networking ("uh, let's see - I think you need a splitter on that DHCP thingy...")?

I don't know if there's any way to assign unique remote/IR codes for the 6412 boxes. A complicated (but attractively geeky) solution is PC-controlled IR-blaster box that has individually-addressable IR ports. Something like the Global Cache GC-100 (http://www.globalcache.com/products/gc-index.html).

I found another wrinkle to my problem. The 6412 will not output overlay graphics (guide, etc.) on the composite or s-video output when the output is set to anything but 480i. So much for my plan to modulate the signal to the rest of the house. I would have to change the setting every time I wanted to watch tv in the bedroom. I'm thinking the easiest answer is a DVR in each room and i'll deal with having to record everything in every room.

Originally posted by shannonv
Another option is to see if one of the shows airs at an alternate time. Some of the ABC shows re-run on Saturday night.


If there is a conflict and the show has an alternate airing time, will the PVR pick it up automatically (since it didn't record at the original time due to conflict)? -- Tivo does this.


New/Re-run show handling - as you might imagine, we're at the mercy of the EPG data (and the networks reporting to the EPG data companies). If we record one and the guide data has enough information for us to determine that the others are duplicates, the others will not record. [/B]

Do you depend solely on the "New/Repeat" field of the EPG data, or do you also look at things like original air date for the show?

I picked up my 6412 yesterday and I'm very impressed. This is my first PVR and so far I'm finding everything easy to use and well thought out.

I do have a question/comment about the favorites feature. I set my favorites hoping to shortcut the process of browsing my most frequently watched programs. When I press the "Fav" button on the remote the channel automatically changes to the next favorite channel in the list and the mini-guide is displayed. What I really want is for either the guide or preferably the mini-guide to be displayed with all of my favorites without the channel automatically changing. I shouldn't have to abandon the program I'm currently watching just to see what is playing on my other favorite channels. Is there any way to do this? Does anyone else think that this would be a useful feature?

On a related topic, is there any way to filter the guide to just my favorites or do I have to remove all my non-favorite channels?

Thanks,
Jeff

I taped NYPD Blue last night - HD - the audio disappears when there is conversation, it comes back when just street noise is on, also the commercials all have full sound. Law and Order taped just fine. Any answers or thoughts on what I can do??

My problem with 'Lost' was the fact I wanted to tape two shows at nine pm but the one minute overlap from lost wouldn't allow it. I'm oot trying to beat a dead horse, just explaining why I got conflict.. I still very much appreciate the two channel record, just frustrated by the crazy scheduling.

Originally posted by nodrog2
I taped NYPD Blue last night - HD - the audio disappears when there is conversation, it comes back when just street noise is on, also the commercials all have full sound. Law and Order taped just fine. Any answers or thoughts on what I can do?? Don't watch shows on ABC, I guess. Either KOMO locally and/or ABC nationally hasn't yet figured out how to deliver sound reliably on HD programming. I see the same complaints all the time regarding KOMO-HD over-the-air, not just via Comcast. Last week I helped a friend install his HD DirecTivo and guess which were the only HD shows that had audio problems? Yep, ABC.

I had the identical problem last night with NYPD Blue. The dialogue was coming from my left rear surround sound speaker (instead of left-center-right) - and the volume would go crazy when the national Dolby feed was lost when local non-Dolby commericals aired. I had the same problem with Monday Night Football, again Channel 4. Channel 5 works just fine. And KIRO (Channel 7) doesn't matter since they are still fighting with Comcast and are not sharing the HD content on cable. Get over it, children!

Anyone else having trouble with the box just randomly turning itself off? Mine started doing it tonight after working fine for a couple days. It will shut off and the display is blank. Then it switches to four dashes on the display - - - -, and then the clock comes on. After a while it repeats. I finally called Comcast and they said a few people have reported the problem, but they don’t have a solution yet. Someone is coming out, but I can’t be here tomorrow, so I have to wait until Friday.

I thought it might be a heat issue, but unplugging it and cooling it off made no difference.

Mine did it a few times tonight too. It's been on for about an hour now. we'll see.

Just did it again.

Plus, if I hit rewind, it locks it up, and reboots.

More answers:

the the problem with title search - we just found that one internally too. We're investigating as that is not the original behavior.

duplicates to get out of conflicts - it looks around the same show time on any day but not for any time on the channel

reruns - according to guide data

video overlays - if you want overlays on composite for all channels that are not HD channels, set 4:3 override to 480i. this will keep HD as HD output when you tune to HD channels with the only limitation that you don't get video overlay when tuned to an hd channel. All other channels will be 480i. This also leaves scaling to your HD display, thus avoiding 2x scaling.

Shannon - what forum or thread should I go to in order to get understanding of 'video overlays', 'scaling', 2x scaling?

So much to learn, so little time.

Funniest thing, I just had teh cable box version of a Blue Screen. I had several lock-ups. I had several pauses und unexplainable hiccups.
You know I am a real supporter of MS. I'm in the software business and I have utmost respect for what MS does. It pains me to say but this software is not ready for prime time.

The Blue screen said "Error code: ??????" and then just vanished and restarted the box.

Just got my unit yesterday in Puyallup and happy. The cable guy showed me a way to check the temperature by pressing a key on the remote when the unit is powered off. I thought it was [Menu] but that just sets up the video display. Can anyone help?

Bothell, check out this site:

http://cjhengineering.com/DCTHDFAQ.htm

It provides a lot of information about the 6200/64xx, and how to get into the diagnostic menus.

For temperature, "Power Off" ""Select/Ok" scroll down to d13, page 2, if this is accurate, mine is 102 degrees.

So far, I'm loving my new 6412 with FE 1.7!!!

A couple questions:

1) When recording two shows at the same time, how do I quickly switch between the two shows? Right now, I have to key in the number of the channel I want to switch to.

2) Let's say an SD show is broadcast on both an HD channel and an analog channel, for instance, "The Apprentice." The picture on 105 is far superior to the picture on 5. What is the relative difference in how much hard drive space is required for each? Does an SD show recorded on an HD channel take up as much space as an HD show?

3) I've noticed that a few times when I "Rew4", the system gets stuck and keeps rewinding until the beginning of the show. I can't stop it. I can't get this to occur consistently but it has happened a few times. Is this a known problem?

4) Comment: While searching for "The Ellen Degeneres Show" Searching by "Ellen" brought up only the analog repeats on Oxygen. Searching by "The Ellen" brought up both the SD show originating on 105 and 5 as well as the analog repeats.

5) Comment: It would be nice if you could scroll up from the top choice to get to the bottom of a list of choices. (instead of having to scroll down several times)

All for now. I LOVE this forum!

Originally posted by jjonesx86
I picked up my 6412 yesterday and I'm very impressed. This is my first PVR and so far I'm finding everything easy to use and well thought out.

I do have a question/comment about the favorites feature.... I shouldn't have to abandon the program I'm currently watching just to see what is playing on my other favorite channels. Is there any way to do this? Does anyone else think that this would be a useful feature?


Thanks,
Jeff

I agree completely and have been frustrated with this as well.

This morning my box wouldn't power up at all, so I swapped it out. I kind of doubt this a software problem.

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
Anyone else having trouble with the box just randomly turning itself off? Mine started doing it tonight after working fine for a couple days. It will shut off and the display is blank. Then it switches to four dashes on the display - - - -, and then the clock comes on. After a while it repeats. I finally called Comcast and they said a few people have reported the problem, but they don’t have a solution yet. Someone is coming out, but I can’t be here tomorrow, so I have to wait until Friday.

I thought it might be a heat issue, but unplugging it and cooling it off made no difference.

Originally posted by artseattle
2) Let's say an SD show is broadcast on both an HD channel and an analog channel, for instance, "The Apprentice." The picture on 105 is far superior to the picture on 5. What is the relative difference in how much hard drive space is required for each? Does an SD show recorded on an HD channel take up as much space as an HD show? Yep. NBC is still broadcasting an HD signal on 105, even for SD shows. It's just that much of the picture is wasted with black bars. Takes the same amount of space as a full-screen HD show, since they're probably still sending the same # of bits/second either way.

1) Favorites list that tunes - this was the requested behavior from Comcast since the TVG boxes tune on each press of the FAV key. Our default behavior before this was to not tune. If you want to see what else is on without tuning, hit OK/select and then browse around the mini guide with the arrow keys.

2) If you want to filter out certain channels from all views (except search) - Go to MENU - settings - channel list and favorites and edit your channel list.

Originally posted by artseattle
So far, I'm loving my new 6412 with FE 1.7!!!

A couple questions:

1) When recording two shows at the same time, how do I quickly switch between the two shows? Right now, I have to key in the number of the channel I want to switch to.


3) I've noticed that a few times when I "Rew4", the system gets stuck and keeps rewinding until the beginning of the show. I can't stop it. I can't get this to occur consistently but it has happened a few times. Is this a known problem?



1) Answered at the bottom of page 5 by burger23.

3) I saw this once and got out by using the Cursor right and/or up arrow on the BOX, instead of the remote. I believe the box is busy and not paying attn. to the remote's signals.

Overall, VERY impressed with the box. It just needs more hard drive space for HD shows. Watch program overlaps, such as recording two shows, then trying the a third event on another channel. Also, if you're watching a show on time delay, and have two events scheduled at say the top of the hour, you LOSE the end of your show. The DVR records a minute (I think) before and after each selection.

Originally posted by davegtestr
1) Answered at the bottom of page 5 by burger23.



burger23 actually says at the bottom of his post that this does not work with Foundation. I also believe it is noted in the first post of this thread that the swap function does not work with MS FE 1.7.

Originally posted by shannonv
1) 2) If you want to filter out certain channels from all views (except search) - Go to MENU - settings - channel list and favorites and edit your channel list. This is a list that would benefit from some UI tweaks:

1. Up when at the listtop should wrap to listbottom (as noted above, this behavior is implemented in some, but not all places).
2. Keying a channel number should skip to that channel in the list, not tune it and leave 'settings'.
3. It would be cool if you could see a preview while checking/unchecking - I found it hard to figure out which channels I wanted to uncheck - but this might be too expensive for a seldom used feature.

As a 'software guy', applaud the work you have done on this - it is a very nice release.

Shannon,

Thanks for clarifying the behavior...at least now I can stop trying to find a way to do this. I know I can use the mini-guide without tuning as you say but in order to make that as usable as browsing my favorites would have been I would have to blow away a bunch of channels from the main guide. I'm an unreasonable user and don't want to make that compromise :)

I understand that Comcast may have been driving the requirements but wouldn't it have been possible to leave some of the decisions in the hands of the consumer? You could provide a filter on the guide/mini-guide to show my favorites or the full guide or allow me to decide whether to tune or not when pushing the Fav key. I don't think either of these features would be difficult for the average consumer to understand and would really help the power user.

Overall I like the new interface and I love the PVR features. For me personally the favorites feature isn't useful at all and I think it could have been with a few minor tweaks.

Thanks,
Jeff

PS - Thanks for answering all these questions on the forum.

Originally posted by davegtestr
The DVR records a minute (I think) before and after each selection.


This is most annoying, and I fail to see why it has to be so. It isn't like there's a tape mechanism that has to get up to speed. I wish they would have the recordings start and stop when the program does, and allow for seamless switching of recording to a program on a different channel. Perhaps they could add a 1 minute option to the start/stop time Record Options (for those who like it this way), and modify the Start/Stop On Time operations to actually do just that. It's a shame to inhibit recording of programs lasting an hour or more just because of the slight artificial overlap. I know the networks (especially NBC) screw around with the times, but I doubt you'd miss anything worthwhile -- and if you're given the option of forcing the padding who could complain?

Originally posted by jjonesx86
I understand that Comcast may have been driving the requirements but wouldn't it have been possible to leave some of the decisions in the hands of the consumer? Yeah, except that Comcast is their customer, not us. Comcast is writing the check to Microsoft. We're just leasing these boxes from Comcast. If you want different behavior, it's Comcast's mind we have to change, not MS.

Originally posted by jimre
Any way to bypass the encoder to watch the live, uncompressed picture for analog channels? It seems to me the analog PQ on the 6412 is worse than the 6200 it replaced, and I'd guess this is due to the MPEG2 compression loss. My ReplayTV has a "Bypass" button for this purpose - how about the 6412 running MSTV? Thanks.

The 6412's A/D conversion is horrible. There is no reason for this to be in any shipping set top box. Anyone else seeing this on channels under 100?

Thx
Vidkidd

It's no worse than a Replay or Tivo, IMHO. Compression loss is the price you pay for having a DVR with trick play. It's just too bad they don't have 1) selectable compression quality like Replay or Tivo, or 2) a Bypass button like the Replay.

Originally posted by vidkidd
The 6412's A/D conversion is horrible. There is no reason for this to be in any shipping set top box. Anyone else seeing this on channels under 100?

Thx
Vidkidd Apparently this A/D conversion will occur at the headend very soon. Comcast wants to address this first before adding any new channels. This is information I have gleaned reading a gazillion posts and it is covered extensively in the industry publications. Be patient.

Tall1.... Can you point me in a reading direction on this point?



Originally posted by jimre
It's no worse than a Replay or Tivo, IMHO. Compression loss is the price you pay for having a DVR with trick play. It's just too bad they don't have 1) selectable compression quality like Replay or Tivo, or 2) a Bypass button like the Replay.

I have a DTV Tivo and there is absolutely no loss. Granted it's recording a pre-compressed stream.... But it's Comcast's direct competition.

Thx,
Vidkidd

The tech who installed my 6412 said Comcast spent no time and effort improving the analog PQ because the intent is to put them on the digital side in six months. Of course you have to apply the Comcast tech grain of salt to this, but I don't doubt that this is the master plan.

Originally posted by vidkidd
I have a DTV Tivo and there is absolutely no loss. Granted it's recording a pre-compressed stream.... But it's Comcast's direct competition. Well, obviously if Comcast were all digital this wouldn't be an issue. Your real beef therefore has NOTHING to do with the 6412, it's simply that all cable channels < 100 are analog. Until that changes, you will get crappier picture quality thru a DVR than thru a simple analog tuner. Doesn't matter if it's a Comcast 6412 or an (analog) Tivo or ReplayTV - analog channels viewed thru a local MPEG compressor will look crappier, period.

A few first impressions from a first-time DVR user:

I love finally being able to record hi-def! Having two tuners is just icing on the cake.

Overall, the MS interface seems very usable. I prefer it to the old iGuide in almost every way, except that iGuide showed more channels per page in the EPG.

Analog channels don't look significantly worse to me than they did with the old cable box. Of course, they do look significantly worse than the digital channels, but they did before too.

I'd love to be able to delete portions of a recorded program. Sorry to hear that's beyond MS control.

I'd also like to have it record future programs that contain specified keywords, even if those programs aren't listed in the current guide. For instance, say I want to record every program with Pablo Francisco, whenever it comes on. I remember seeing that feature on TiVo or UltimateTV.

I've found one bug so far: When I tried to record The Simpsons as a series, I told it to record only new episodes at 8:00 PM on channel 113, but it also wants to record the reruns that play every day from 7 to 7:30.

Shannon, please tell your group to keep up the good work!

More answers:

HD vs. upconverted SD - HD channels, even with upconverted SD content, still use full HD bit rates.

1 min padding - actually we do what's called "soft padding" so every show only records a little extra at the beginning and end when it doesn't cause a conflict. As networks shift things a little here and there, you will quickly realize the goodness of doing this. However, in the case when you're watching live TV and there are two upcoming recordings, it will force you to change channels or cancel. If you're still watching the end of a show on another channel at that time, cancel the upcoming recording and manually start it when the show you're watching has completed. We're looking at ways of improving this in future versions.

I'm at my wits end trying to get the menu overlays to display. I've got two 6412 DVRs with the MS software. On my sammy everything works fine, but the Panasonic TH-37PWD6 in the bedroom won't display any overlays.

I've gone in the the menu and cycled through every 4:3 override mode, and even cycled through all the output mode/options/override combos and never got the overlays to appear.

I've got componet out of the cable box to a Panasonic SA-XR25 AV Receiver, to the inputs on the back of the Panny. I had no issues with the 6200 in this very same configuration.

I'm hoping that I am missing something brain dead simple. I'd hate to have to trade it back in.

Any ideas?

PS TV, both HD and SD works fine, just no menus/overlays.

Shannon --

Thanks for clarifying the padding implementation. As for the HD channels taking the same space even for SD programs, it might be a good idea for users to record such programs from non-HD channels, especially in the case of movies which are available on companion SD digital channels. Of course, that depends on whether space is at a premium, and on whether it's possible to determine accurately whether the program will be SD or HD. I assume that nothing would be gained by recording an SD program in HD, other than if the SD transmission is analog.

I recorded "Someting's got to give" in HD 2 nights ago, and watched it tonight. The recording was perfect except it ended before the end of the movie. I thing only the last scene was cut off (but how could I know for sure).

Any way to be sure to get the entire movie in the future?

I thought I read something about this somewhere but I can't remember where, so I'll ask...

If I am FF, and I am on FF4, when I hit FF again, the DVR goes back a bit (this is a really good thing). On FF3, FF2, and FF1 it does not skip back when I press play. This seems really unfortunate, because at FF4 the show is going by so fast, it is nearly impossible to time correctly (numerous times I end up 3-4 minutes after the commercial), and at FF3, you typically need to back up 30-45 seconds. It would be so much better if it auto backed up (like Tivo) at each FF type. Is this a bug? Can it be fixed?

Does the FE software allow you to delete channels from the guide you don't want to see? Just curious. We have iguide and cannot do this.

Anyone have trouble getting the remote to read through glass? Any suggestions, besides getting rid of the glass in my cabinet? Thanks

Hoffert, I recorded Somethings Gotta Give in HD a couple nights ago as well, but for some reason my recording had an extra 20 minutes or so tacked onto the end. Not a problem, I guess. The recording in HD was amazing... definitely impressive and definitely showing my why moving to HD was a good thing.

mck024, the FE 1.7 allows you to remove channels you don't receive (or want) from the guide. They remain in the search, however, from my understanding.

Shannon... for the channel changing, I agree that having the extra minute pad is a good thing, in general. However, it can be a problem when -- as you note -- you're watching something else and it wants to change the channel before the actual start time. Why not, instead of having two options (i.e. (1) change channel early; or (2) cancel) make it three options (i.e. (1) change channel early; (2) change channel at scheduled start; or (3) cancel). It would be just a menu change, and would still make sense to most people.

Lastly, anyone else having recording/playback issues? I'd describe the issue we have from time to time (i.e. during Wednesday's episode of LOST) as a picture & audio breakup. The picture pixelates badly and the sound completely drops out. It comes back in a few seconds. Strangely, if I stop the playback, rewind slowly, and start playback in the middle of the "issue," then it goes away. But if I rewind back before the playback "issue," then it is there again. Is this a common problem?

I just removed a ton of channels from the channel list using the setting under the Settings section. Although you can't view the channels while you are making a decision whether or not to keep them, the format is fairly simple. I went through all of the stations and made a list of those I wanted to keep. Then, I scrolled through the list of all of the available channels and unchecked all of the unwanted ones.

For my Favorites, I chose, 104, 173, 549, and 663. This is a great way to view the HD channels only. 104 is the beginning of several HD stations, 173 gives you ESPN, 549, HBOHD, and 663 is Discovery, which is directly followed by INHD1 and 2. You can use the mini guide to view most of the HD channels at one time!

My two cents.

1) My question about switching between two simultaneously recording shows remains unanswered. Am I correct that the SWAP button does not work with FE 1.7? I even manually added this code to my MX500 using my Radio Shack remote. It didn't do anything. So, how can one switch between shows when recording both? Only workaround I've found is punching in the number of the station you want to switch to.

2) New comment. I would prefer if the Search function had a user option that would set the search to only search "Selected Channels on your Channel List". Right now, if I search "movies," over half of the choices are on channels I don't get or don't want to view.
All for now.

Originally posted by wareagle
...I assume that nothing would be gained by recording an SD program in HD, other than if the SD transmission is analog. Actually, you'll probably get much better PQ by recording the SD program from the HD channel. Not HD-quality certainly, but MUCH better than the regular analog picture digitized & compressed locally by your DVR. True, it's also wasting space by recording the black bars - but that's the tradeoff.

just an FYI

The remote control that comes with the 6412 has a JP1 connector. If you're really interested in making the remote sing and dance, head to the remote control forum and read up on JP1.

Originally posted by burger23
I saw this post on the iGuide Forum

Here is the exact procedure to program a swap or 30 second skip to the remote.

1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote to put it into Cable Box control mode.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the "Cable" button blinks twice.
3) Type in the code 994. The "Cable" button will blink twice
4) Press (do not hold) the "Setup" button
5) Type in the code 00173 (for 30 second Skip).
6) Press whatever button you want to map the skip or swap function to.

I tried this, using the FAV button. No luck. I then found the codes
here (http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?cbl_0476) and tried the STOP function, 00174. It DID work. So, 00173 works with the 6412 and iGuide software--but not with the 6412 with MSTV FE 1.7 software.

Ideas, anyone??

Anybody figure out a way to do skip30 yet? I use a universal remote, but it's a Harmony 688 (I think that's the model #) so I can't use the MX700 macro trick because the remote only does Macros for "activities" :-(

Originally posted by metz520
just an FYI

The remote control that comes with the 6412 has a JP1 connector. If you're really interested in making the remote sing and dance, head to the remote control forum and read up on JP1. Which remote? The brown one or the silver PIP/Swap remote? I thought the silver ones that came with the 6208 were JP1.1 and that was quite different than JP1 and no one had any luck at all modifying the JP1.1 code.

Originally posted by artseattle
1) My question about switching between two simultaneously recording shows remains unanswered. Am I correct that the SWAP button does not work with FE 1.7? ... I thought that SWAP was for the not-yet-implemented PIP functions, not recording? At least that is what is documented here (http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/DRC800_User_Guide.pdf) (in a similar, but not identical remote).

Originally posted by tall1
Apparently this A/D conversion will occur at the headend very soon. Comcast wants to address this first before adding any new channels. This is information I have gleaned reading a gazillion posts and it is covered extensively in the industry publications. Be patient. Videokidd is not talking about the conversion of analog to digital at the headend level. He is talking about the conversion of analog channels by the DVR-- in this case the 6412-- into a digital format so that programs on the analog channels can be captured by the hard drive.

Digital simulcast of analog channels may eliminate this concern, but the digital simulcast will not begin for most areas for about six months, and significantly longer in other areas. So for six months or quite a bit longer, this will be an issue for those with a 6412.

Also, a reminder, this thread is for comments about the 6412 with the Microsoft TV EPG as implemented by Comcast. This is the case only in Washington State. If you have a 6412 via Comcast but you are outside Washington State, your comments are best directed to the 6412 with iGuide thread, which is also a stickie.

SonomaSearcher: I know what viddkid was referring to but thought I might supply some hope. I realize this is the FE thread and after this post, I will never bother you folks again. Is it ok if I read/subscribe this thread? sheesh.

No bother at all. There have been a number of posts by members who didn't realize there was a separate iGuide thread, so I am continuing to issue reminders in this regard.

Originally posted by platbr

Shannon... for the channel changing, I agree that having the extra minute pad is a good thing, in general. However, it can be a problem when -- as you note -- you're watching something else and it wants to change the channel before the actual start time.

It's actually worse than just the extra minute of padding. From what I can tell it won't even let you play through material you've already buffered when it switches channels. So if you are say 5 minutes behind real-time because you had used the pause button, it dumps the buffer when it switches channels and you can't watch those last 5 minutes even though they are already in the buffer. Tivo lets you watch all the rest of the buffered material.

--
Steve

Originally posted by kanefsky
Tivo lets you watch all the rest of the buffered material.

--
Steve Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Wouldn't it be so nice if Comcast just made a deal with Tivo and used their Guide nationwide.

I can dream can't I...

> Wouldn't it be so nice if Comcast just made a deal with Tivo and used their Guide nationwide.

I think TiVo did try, but didn't get the deal.

Hong.

More answers:

Transitions in and out of recordings - We know there's room for improvement here. There are a number of things beyond our control that make this much harder than you might think.

Swap - This is not enabled in FE 1.7.

Originally posted by artseattle
For my Favorites, I chose, 104, 173, 549, and 663. This is a great way to view the HD channels only. 104 is the beginning of several HD stations, 173 gives you ESPN, 549, HBOHD, and 663 is Discovery, which is directly followed by INHD1 and 2.Wow, that's a haphazard arrangement. Here in Portland, all our HD channels are in the 700's, with the locals mapped to their same number arrangement as they are in analog-world, just with a 7 at the beginning.

** 6412 Analog Update **

I was able t get past the poor Analog to MPEG-2 hardware on the DCT6412 with the help from a friend at ATI. I added a e-home wonder and a HDTV wonder to my WINCE2k5 setup to grab the HD channels Comcast doesnt provide and the Analog Channels that the 6412 has slaughters.

It's a shame that such an impressive piece of hardware has such a POOR QUALITY MPEG-2 compressor built in. Until Motorola or Comcast resolves this issue, I will be stuck with 2 PVR's. (SIGH)

Thx,
Vidkidd

vidkidd

I am confused! the e-wonder is a PCI card. Are you watching HDTV on your pc? Or are you streaming somehow to your HDTV? Please clarify...

Thanks...

I just wanted to add my disappointment in the picture quality on the plain old analog channels. I had a fairly good pic until moving to the 6412 box. I'm just at a loss as to what to do.

BTW, does anyone else feel like this is more Microsoft beta software pushed out to the public?

Originally posted by tall1
Which remote? The brown one or the silver PIP/Swap remote? I thought the silver ones that came with the 6208 were JP1.1 and that was quite different than JP1 and no one had any luck at all modifying the JP1.1 code.

Silver one...Hmm...I dunno. It has a standard 6 pin connector labeled JP1. I haven't hooked up my cable to it and tried it yet. I'll do so very soon. I didn't realize that there was a new rev of JP1 that hadn't been reverse engineered. I Just assumed that any remote with the 6 pin connector was JP1.

Originally posted by artshotwell
I just wanted to add my disappointment in the picture quality on the plain old analog channels. I had a fairly good pic until moving to the 6412 box. I'm just at a loss as to what to do.

BTW, does anyone else feel like this is more Microsoft beta software pushed out to the public?

I'm a bit confused by your last sentence Art. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your statement, but if you are implying that the software has anything to do with the picture quality then you are incorrect. Shannon mentioned this a few pages back.

One possible solution to your analog picture problems, assuming your display has an analog tuner, would be installing a splitter before the 6412 and running a direct feed to your display device to watch the analog channels without the 6412's compression being applied. You'll have to switch inputs on your display, however, to alternate between the analog direct feed and DVR (which allows the analog trick play features) feed.

As for the new guide software itself, while it's certainly not perfect, it's a big step in the right direction and miles ahead of the old guide we had IMHO.

Originally posted by artshotwell
BTW, does anyone else feel like this is more Microsoft beta software pushed out to the public? Nope. It's a vast improvement over every piece of crap Comcast/Motorola have given us before. In any case, I don't think the PQ of MPEG-compressed analog channels is under Microsoft's control. I agree the encoding is extremely poor - very similar to the "Standard" (worst) quality option on ReplayTV. Maybe this is a conscious decision on Comcast's part to get the maximum recording space. Maybe it's a hardware limitation. I don't know. Since they don't give us any options to change the recording quality (PQ vs space tradeoff) like ReplayTV has, we have no way of knowing.

Originally posted by danstone
I'm a bit confused by your last sentence Art. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your statement, but if you are implying that the software has anything to do with the picture quality then you are incorrect. Shannon mentioned this a few pages back.
Oh...no...no...I don't think the software any anything to do with picture quality. I believe it's the hardware.

I have wired up my old VCR and have the ability to watch analog via it.

As for the software, it IS a vast improvement over TVGuide's. Though I'm not sure it's up to DiredTV's, at least in the Sony HD receivers. I just see little problems, like the searches, which lead me to think the beta cycle was never completed. I hope MS succeeds with this s/w because it's sooo much better than TVGuide's.

But, frankly, all my life as a computer-user (I've been online nearly 20 years) I've been impressed by Microsoft's ability to sell software with bugs in it, then sell software with fixes, which need still more fixes.

Anyone living in Lynnwood, Mill Creek, or Everett area gotten one of these HD DRVs? Is it available for people in Snohomish County?

So I just moved from DirecTV to comcast. I'm still getting used to a few things. I had forgotten how crappy analog truly looks -- everything in the sub-100 category looks like ass on my 65" RPTV. That's a bit disappointing as my previous setup was an HDTivo with the OTA stuff flowing in as well. I had it made. Why did I switch? One: cost. Two: I was sick of having a box for every TV even if all I wanted on that TV was the basic stuff. So far, the family is ok with the switch, a bit upset PBS Kids isn't there for them, but we're all getting by. :)

I haven't had any DVR issues yet -- I just got the box, so we'll see how it works out. I am also running Media Center 2005 with some extenders so I can have a central server of stuff.

I can totally understand why Moto (and Comcast) didn't put much effort into the MPEG2 compressor on this box *if* they are certain they are rolling out digital simulcast within the next 6-12 months. After that, I assume the digital boxes will just hide the analog channels altogether and all we'll see is digital quality (and probably better than they can offer on satellite because they aren't as bandwidth constrained). By contrast, the S-video output on the unit is phenominal when watching digital channels, so the A-to-D may suck, but it will be meaningless at some point in the near future; the D-to-A is great and that will be something many of us who use S-video or component will need for the long haul.

I just switched from Dish to Comcast to get this DVR. (Dish's DVR software is the *worst* on the market, with the exception of the Dishplayer 7200, which is showing its age.) But even with Dish, I *never* watched the SDTV channels on my big screen (92" Firehawk + Dwin TV3). They are so overcompressed that they even sometimes look funky on my Toshiba 36" tube.

Does anybody know the by-region rollout schedule for the simulcasts? (Ok, I know it's a little OT, but both the iGuide and MSTV forums are buzzing with complaints about this converter and it might be moot in a few months.)

I'm actually thinking of using Media Center Edition for recording SDTV and saving the 6412's limited drive space for HDTV. It's less convenient and has lower WAF (wife acceptance factor), but it will also allow me to use the media center extender to watch SDTV elsewhere in the house. I just ordered the XBOX extender version from Dell.

My gripe/wish: I really wish there was some way to use the USB2 or Firewire port to extend the storage. I assume that recorded shows are somehow copy protected anyway, so it would seem that there would be no problem allowing those of us who want to plug in external storage should be able to do so. Barring that--anybody get daring enough to swap out the HD for a bigger one yet??

Is there a way to tell the 6412 to use the source resolution of the material instead of forcing the output to 720p or 1080i?

I'm assuming that the scaler in the Dwin TV3 (native resolution 720p) can better convert 1080i channels to 720p than the one built into the 6412. And I think it would be a shame to have the 6412 upconvert 720p channels to 1080i just to have them downconverted back to 720p.

And manually changing resolutions on the fly is not possible on the 6412 unless you can truly power off the unit (which doesn't work if anything is recording).

Originally posted by adbo
Anyone living in Lynnwood, Mill Creek, or Everett area gotten one of these HD DRVs? Is it available for people in Snohomish County?
I'm in Mill Creek and I got mine last Tuesday

My gripe/wish: I really wish there was some way to use the USB2 or Firewire port to extend the storage. I assume that recorded shows are somehow copy protected anyway, so it would seem that there would be no problem allowing those of us who want to plug in external storage should be able to do so. Barring that--anybody get daring enough to swap out the HD for a bigger one yet??

Firewire is active ! as was on the 6200 , you can record HDTV via a D-VHS recorder! this includes encrypted content as the D-VHS recorders are 5C compliant. (macs and PCs are another option as well but not for encrypted content)

Now the only Q I have is: can you record via firewire while playing back DVR recorded HDTV? anyone?

Far as I can tell, all outputs send the same video (& audio), just in different format.

More answers:

Art - Without getting too defensive, let me just say that this software met MS, Comcast and Motorola release requirements. Sometimes there are bugs that get missed in all the extensive testing. Sometimes things don't get configured right in the field. Software is hard stuff. :)

Original HD resolution question - What you're looking for is what I refer to as "native mode" where the video output mode adjusts to be the same as the content. We have requested this capability from Motorola.

Analog PQ - As others have stated, this is not a function of the MSTV software. One thing to look into is the number of splits in the cable leading up to the box and the quality of the wiring and connectors. It's analog so it is sensitive to splits, noisy splitters/amps, bad connections, etc. I would suggest having at most one split of your cable before it gets to the 6412. If you have to split it more, try and do it from a leg that is isolated from the 6412. Use RG6 QS wiring with quality connectors. I'm not saying that will fix everything but it may help.

Originally posted by shannonv
More answers:
...
Original HD resolution question - What you're looking for is what I refer to as "native mode" where the video output mode adjusts to be the same as the content. We have requested this capability from Motorola.
...


Shannon: do you believe that this is something Moto can upgrade on the existing 6412 and deploy to existing owners with an automatic update? If so, please keep requesting!! ;-) And let us know if you hear it's coming, this isn't the kind of thing one is likely to check for regularly.

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
Firewire is active ! as was on the 6200 , you can record HDTV via a D-VHS recorder! this includes encrypted content as the D-VHS recorders are 5C compliant. (macs and PCs are another option as well but not for encrypted content)

Now the only Q I have is: can you record via firewire while playing back DVR recorded HDTV? anyone?

WiFi: I was actually hoping for something more simple than D-VHS when I posed my question. I've been spoiled by DVRs and Media Center and I don't want to go back to VCRs... :( What I was thinking is just plugging in a USB2 or Firewire off-the-shelf hard drive to use as additional storage for myDVR events. Just treat the second drive as an extension of the existing HD... or let me mark shows to archive in the myDVR menu and have it copy them to the drive in the background or when the DVR is inactive and let me browse my archival storage as a separate myDVR list.

I'm sure it's not as easy as that (Shannon can say for sure), but, again, assuming that content that needs to be protected (HBOHD, for example) is protected, this should be feasible. After all, if you can do it with DVHS or complicated firewire recording to a PC, it's not a content protection issue.

Originally posted by shannonv
Art - Without getting too defensive, let me just say that this software met MS, Comcast and Motorola release requirements. Sometimes there are bugs that get missed in all the extensive testing. Sometimes things don't get configured right in the field. Software is hard stuff. :)
Shannon - Yes, I know it's hard stuff.. I've worked for four software developers, including doing UI design, usability testing, and end-user training. And, I will say your software is so much better than TVGuide's. No, it may not be perfect, but it is very good.

My biggest complaint has nothing to do with your software, but the artifacts now visible in the analog signals. And, that's not entirely the fault of the DVR... I think Comcast doesn't have the best signal for some Seattle channels to begin with... at least here in the Skagit Valley.

Originally posted by artshotwell
My biggest complaint has nothing to do with your software, but the artifacts now visible in the analog signals. And, that's not entirely the fault of the DVR...

I assume their digital simulcast will solve these problems... now if we can only find out when they roll it out in the Seattle area...

does anyone know if the 6412 is *nix based?? or what File system does it use?

does anyone know if the 6412 is *nix based?? or what File system does it use?

The 6412 is not any operating system based. However, it's a safe bet that 6412 using the MSFT version is running some form of Windows, (Windows CE?) and using NTFS (FAT and FAT32 are too limiting and I doubt they invented a whole new file system just for DVRs). Course, maybe they're running Longhorn. ;)

Originally posted by xkode2002
I assume their digital simulcast will solve these problems... now if we can only find out when they roll it out in the Seattle area...

Has Comcast rolled out digital simulcast anywhere? Have they publically commited to it? Any general time frame for the entire US, like "2005" or will it take longer?

Just curious because it is only now that I got my HDTV this week that I even heard about digital simulcast of analog stations to prevent quality loss. Thanks!

The major problem I have with the new box right now is that the box shuts itself down at least once a day, sometimes more often. Normally I keep the box on, cause I have my ReplayTV connected to it. I first noticed the problem when my Replay failed to record some early morning shows, because the cable box was turned off. Then I noticed a divided movie recording on my DVR (6412), with a note saying that there was a power failure during recording. Then finally today, it happened in the middle of the day while I was watching a movie. The box just went off, LED display showed ---. I was watching it time delayed and lost my buffer :(

some interesting pics:

one is of a 6200

one is of my 6412

notice on the 6412 the 10bT ethernet port says installed......*goes to dig out a 50ft ethernet cable*

here is the 6412 pic

What does the ethernet connection do for you?

How did you get this menu, BTW?

push the "ok/enter" button while the box is off

on a side note about the File System: I found this screen interesting...

notice "GPFS"

a search on google finds GPFS = General Parallel File System for Linux......

The screen shot for the 6412 suggests that the Ethernet port is 10Mbit instead of 100Mbit. That will not be very good for possible future support of streaming video to other rooms.

Im extremely upset with this DVR because you cannot record or dvr the nba league pass games on channels 441-450, i called comcast and they said it was because these are considered pay per view channels?? what a crock, there not ppv, i paid for a subscription to this service not ppv. directivo lets you record nba league pass games, so i know its a comcast thing and i too agree the local analog channels are crap, this doesnt seem right,subscribing to comcast is a love hate thing!!!!!!!!!!

At least you get the package. I couldn't get my in-car Nascar channels all day. They never could figure it out. Really ticked me off.

There is a padlock symbol atop my DVR menu, but it does not show for any other menu option. What exactly is the padlock symbol telling me? I haven't locked anything as far as I can tell.

Originally posted by dandd
The screen shot for the 6412 suggests that the Ethernet port is 10Mbit instead of 100Mbit. That will not be very good for possible future support of streaming video to other rooms. Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Motorola doesn't plan on using Ethernet to stream video the way Tivo and ReplayTV currently do.

Motorola is going to use HMA technology. HMA is an IP-over-coaxial technology. This will allow HMA equipped STB's to share video. This seems like a much better method of in-home STB data/video transfer since we won't be bound to Ethernet speeds.

See the Press Release here:
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,,4149_3504_23,00.html

I know that this is an HDTV Recorder thread, but I'm having a bit of trouble transfering 4X3 non-hdtv signals to my JVC D-VHS deck trough the 1394 connection on the moto 6412. The only reason that this comes up is that there are a number of "old" 1930s and 1940s movies that I would like to archive in the best quality possible (ie digital), which were only done in 4X3.

When I record non-HDTV 4X3 programs and then transfer them to my JVC D-VHS, the image is postioned all the way to the left and the right hand side is filled with electronic "garbage". This problem exists with any non-letterboxed/non-hdtv programming that is recorded on the 6412.

Does anybody know how to set the 1394 output so the 4X3 image is "centered"?

Many thanks if there are any "experts" out there who have solved this problem.

Originally posted by uliving
I know that this is an HDTV Recorder thread,Actually, it's the Comcast/Microsoft-TV thread - definitely not the right place for your question. Try one of the other threads like "How to record via 1394/Firewire to WindowsXP". but I'm having a bit of trouble transfering 4X3 non-hdtv signals to my JVC D-VHS deck trough the 1394 connection on the moto 6412. The only reason that this comes up is that there are a number of "old" 1930s and 1940s movies that I would like to archive in the best quality possible (ie digital), which were only done in 4X3.

When I record non-HDTV 4X3 programs and then transfer them to my JVC D-VHS, the image is postioned all the way to the left and the right hand side is filled with electronic "garbage". This problem exists with any non-letterboxed/non-hdtv programming that is recorded on the 6412.

Does anybody know how to set the 1394 output so the 4X3 image is "centered"?... This has been discussed a couple times in those other HD Recording threads. As I recall - it's a limitation of the JVC deck coupled with Comcast/Motorola's use of slightly non-standard timings for SD output thru firewire. For whatever reason, the JVC deck doesn't correctly deal with these timings. I think the only answer was either JVC or Motorola would have to change their hardware....

Thx Jimre

Originally posted by markjrenna
Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Motorola doesn't plan on using Ethernet to stream video the way Tivo and ReplayTV currently do.

Motorola is going to use HMA technology. ...

Thanks for the link. This technology looks as if it can meet the need of networking the DVR. I found a fact sheet on the Motorola site that says HMA would be ready for deployment in Q404. I wonder if Comcast/Microsoft has any plans to support it.

Hopefully they will come up with a gateway that connects HMA to the home Ethernet so that music and photo files stored on a PC can be piped around as well.

Originally posted by dandd
Thanks for the link. This technology looks as if it can meet the need of networking the DVR. I found a fact sheet on the Motorola site that says HMA would be ready for deployment in Q404. I wonder if Comcast/Microsoft has any plans to support it.

Hopefully they will come up with a gateway that connects HMA to the home Ethernet so that music and photo files stored on a PC can be piped around as well. Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Comcast (Brian Roberts) has already said they are very excited about offering this technology. I would expect to read more about it in 2005 and see become reality it by year end 05 in a successor Motorola STB.

I just noticed that the "Saved Program" button on the first OnDemand page provides no functionality at all. With the old s/w you got a list of movies and such that you had interrupted, so you could easily resume viewing. Now you have to go through the entire VOD tree to find the title again, assuming you can remember what and where it was. Not good. Perhaps it works for the pay movies, but I'm not about to try that.

Can one of the MS people tell me whether it would be a technical challenge to have drives on my HTPC appear as additional storage via Firewire? A couple of good 3-4 hour HD operas- like Der Fleidermaus on Discovery HD Theater last week- and the 120 gigs will be gone, with no way to archive for later re-viewing.

I understand the 5C issues, and I'd certainly be willing to play programs back only through the 6412, not the PC, if that were the tradeoff.

What I'm trying to find out initially is whether it's technically hard, and so a MS problem, or a matter of implementation, so a Comcast problem. I need to know who to bug before I run out of space.

IMHO - the hard parts would be 1) testing (customer-supplied random storage devices is something I can guarantee you Comcast is not ready to test), 2) support (can't support what you can't test), and 3) legal clearance - eg, Comcast proving to their lawyers' satisfaction that they won't be sued by Hollywood over the security of their implementation.

burger23....
I have tried all connections on the 6412 and have settled on Component for navigation and then jump to Firewire/1394 when watching HiDef shows. 1394 is the only "pure digital" connection on my TV and I prefer that for watchin HD content.

xkode2002
I still use my DishPlayer at the office and RIP Pure MPEG-2 Files from it almost daily. It's a great box for archiving SD Satellite feed. I just had to replace a bad hard dish that was preventing it from getting downloaded guide data. The Analog portion of the 6412 is a complete letdown and has nothing to do with Signal Quality as it trashes a clean signal..

MCE2k5 is a great HTPC system and I use it along with a EHome Wonder and a HDTVWonder. The HDTVWonder comes in handy with my OTA antenna to grab shows from CBS that comcast doesnt offer... My 9 year old daughter can navigate MCE2k5 w/o issue. She's been using the DVR's since we got this dishplayer over 3 1/2 years ago and has been on a Tive for over 9 months now.

shannonv....
The ability to arrange or "group" channels in the MS Software would be great. For example.... On DirecTV, I can set up multiple "users" each one can have it's own profile (color scheme for the interface, default guide view etc) and most importabtly channel list. I my daughters profile to only include the channels she watches - better yet - The ones we wanted her to have access to.

The problem with interface is that there is only one "profile" And one "favorite" list coupled with the face that the kids channels are all over the place, some are around Channel 40 and other around 120. (split because of analog and digital)

Thx,
Vidkidd

Small Bug report,
I can't delete a recorded program, Mail Call if you must know. I do have it on record series but this didn't doesn't happen with the other series I have set to record. Any help or at least a way to revert back to installation defaults?

Thanks

PS Mountlake Terrace so I think I have the MSFT guide.

Originally posted by jimre
IMHO - the hard parts would be 1) testing (customer-supplied random storage devices is something I can guarantee you Comcast is not ready to test), 2) support (can't support what you can't test), and 3) legal clearance - eg, Comcast proving to their lawyers' satisfaction that they won't be sued by Hollywood over the security of their implementation.

1. Would require a Windows driver; can't be too hard, since I can buy an external USB2 or Firewire hard disk, plug it in, and have it recognized.

2. This might indeed be hard, given Comcast's history of support. Some CSRs and techs are great, some don't know what they're talking about. Might require an actual improvement in how support is provided, with knowledgable people at the other end of an email address or chat setup.

3. If the lawyers/Hollywood have already agreed on 5C encryption, and the shows are stored on the PC in encrypted format, playable only via the 5C-capable box, where would the exposure occur?

Originally posted by drbenson
1. Would require a Windows driver; can't be too hard, since I can buy an external USB2 or Firewire hard disk, plug it in, and have it recognized.

2. This might indeed be hard, given Comcast's history of support. Some CSRs and techs are great, some don't know what they're talking about. Might require an actual improvement in how support is provided, with knowledgable people at the other end of an email address or chat setup.

3. If the lawyers/Hollywood have already agreed on 5C encryption, and the shows are stored on the PC in encrypted format, playable only via the 5C-capable box, where would the exposure occur? 1. I'm not talking about writing a driver. That's the (comparitively) easy part. I'm talking about TESTING it - which is long, hard work, expensive work. Almost always the most expensive & tedious part of any software development project. Especially once you deviate from an absolutely-standard uniform piece of equipment, and start adding random user-supplied hardware to the mix - testing time & expense goes thru the roof.

3. I guarantee you a PC would never be involved in this configuration, let alone having shows "stored on the PC" as you say. We're talking about *maybe* someday a stand-alone external firewire or USB HD plugged into the Motorola box. Again, actual software development to let the Motorola box write encrypted data streams to the drive would be (relatively) easy. Testing & certifying that software's security - to the satisfaction of the lawyers & studios - would be the hard part.

I do see your points. A single, standard external firewire/USB *enclosure*, maybe? After all, the box as it stands writes to a pretty standard, widely available hard drive, and nobody seems to have a problem with its security configuration.

With HD prices as they are these days, I could see buying another 120, 160, or 200 gig HD and swapping it in as needed, with the data on it encrypted or even a nonstandard formatting to keep the paranoids happy.

VidKid: so do you pop the HD out all the time to rip the MPEG2's off? I can't imagine that being practical with the 6412.

I'm still waiting for someone to write a "how I upgraded my 6412's HD" article. ;)

I don't think supporting USB or 1394 drives is as big a deal as you think. I have all sorts of random shells that I connect to my MCE2k5 box and they pretty much all work fine using the standard USB Mass Storage driver. This would be one of those "not supported, use at your own risk" features because only power geeks like us would do it.

The biggest advantage, IMHO, that RePlayTv has over TiVO is that RePlay has an Ethernet port that can be hooked into your home network. Third party software has been developed to move shows from the RePlay hard drive to a hard drive on a network. I currently store nearly 1 GB of shows spread over 5 computers on my network-when I want to view a stored show, it is simply streamed back over the network to the RePlayTV.

But, RePlayTV downcoverts any digital signal to analog. So it can not be used to view HDTV signals--it can view any HDTV signal, but only in the converted analog form.

So, my point is that I doubt if it is a technology issue that is holding things up. My guess is that it is primarily the legal issues, also mentioned in previous posts.

Originally posted by xkode2002
\

I'm still waiting for someone to write a "how I upgraded my 6412's HD" article. ;)

.

what is the penalty for opening the box? I know they sell 6208s at electronic stores in canada....you just buy it and call the cable co. and have it activated......anyone know if the 6412s are for sale anywhere???

taken from the Maxtor site:


QuickView Expander™

Expand your entertainment!
Not yet ready to clean out your digital video recorder? Hesitate to erase your favorite show or movie? Although most digital video recorders (DVRs) or set-top boxes come with 30 or more hours of recording time, you can quickly fill that up if you're saving movies for a weekend movie marathon. Instantly increase your available recording time with a QuickView Expander drive.

How does it work?
The QuickView Expander drive attaches to your DVR or set-top box to seamlessly add up to 160 hours of recording capabilities.

First, contact your cable or service provider to confirm availability in your area and compatibility with your recorder. Once you receive your new QuickView Expander drive, simply connect it to your DVR and prepare for the ultimate entertainment experience!

The new QuickView Expander drive leverages the core technology of Maxtor QuickView consumer electronics (CE) hard drives, which power a high share of today's DVRs worldwide. Different than a standard PC hard drive, Maxtor QuickView CE drives are designed for streaming media applications and offer exceptional performance and advanced features that enhance the digital entertainment experience.

For cable and satellite providers
Want to offer more to your customers? More recording hours? More entertainment? The QuickView Expander drive allows your customers the ability to easily add hours of recording time by connecting to your DVR or set-top box By simply enabling the SATA, USB 2.0 or 1394 ports on the back of your set-top box, you can offer the most in digital recording to your customers. This will help to extend the life of your set top boxes and increase customer satisfaction with your DVR service.

Coming soon to a DVR near you. Summer 2004.

Sounds like good marketing and nothing more. If they enable the ports on the back of the device, ANY drive should work.

Sounds like good marketing and nothing more. If they enable the ports on the back of the device, ANY drive should work.

Umm... Not true (as far as I know and no disrespect intended).

I believe what the Maxtor offering is, is a drive that will be 5C compliant. It would have to have the drivers to interface to the firewire port (or USB port, etc.) similar to the DVHS decks now available.

Hey xkode2002....

Actually, My Dishplayer sits on my desk with the case off for this reason. In all it takes about 10 to 20 mins at the most to empty the hard disk. I then thake the time to delete all of the recordings from the Dishplayer interface.

I wish a process like this would be possible on the 6412. I can't get HD content in this manner but I can record it via Firewire.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Check this out. Rather old (April 2004) but still relevant to external HD storage for current DVRs.

Maxtor Crippled Hard Drives for DVRs (http://www.corante.com/importance/archives/003386.html)

Originally posted by jameskollar
Umm... Not true (as far as I know and no disrespect intended).

I believe what the Maxtor offering is, is a drive that will be 5C compliant. It would have to have the drivers to interface to the firewire port (or USB port, etc.) similar to the DVHS decks now available. Actually, the more I think about it I don't think the external drive would have to know anything about 5C. The software on the Motorola box would do all the work - making sure anything written to disk is properly encrypted. Only the Motorola box would be able to decrypt the files it wrote. Exactly like writing to its internal hard disk, just on a different interface/port.

I just moved from directv to our local comcast (for lots of reasons), and while I am sorting out how bad analog really looks now, i'm working on making HD be the best it can. I am running the DVR through an iScan HD unit and here is my issue:

When I pull up information about the analog signal, I get 480i as I would expect. However, when I pull it up about HD, it says "unknown" for the signal input type. I would expect it to be 1080i.

hoping someone might know what the dealio is.

I've been trying to figure out why I'm so pleased with this box and the MS software:

1. The picture looks at least as good as it did before.
2. I can't perceive any difference between the same SD show recorded from digital and analog Fox Sports.
3. My analog channels are really quite good.

I can only attribute this to:

a. I had a 5100 before, so the previous one wasn't as good as some had.
b. My incoming cable signal is quite strong.
c. I have a 30" LCD, so I may not be able to even see the problems that bother those with larger screens.
d. I'm so glad to have the DVR that I may be overlooking minor faults.
e. My glass is 95% full, rather than 5% empty.

Now, if I could watch Auburn kill Tennessee in HD again without going to a bar... And if ND could beat USC.

Does anyone know how to program the remotes that came with the 6412? Is there a way to change some commands?

Check my post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4668737#post4668737)

Thanks. But the swap and the 30 sec skip don't work with the MS software, it looks like. It's the 30 sec skip I'd like to implement. Art

Originally posted by artshotwell
Thanks. But the swap and the 30 sec skip don't work with the MS software, it looks like. It's the 30 sec skip I'd like to implement. Art Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Per shannonv (See first post) there is no way to enable 30 second skip.

"o 30 second skip is supported by the core FE platform but most MSOs do not enable it and there is no hidden code to enable it."

Originally posted by markjrenna
Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Per shannonv (See first post) there is no way to enable 30 second skip.

"o 30 second skip is supported by the core FE platform but most MSOs do not enable it and there is no hidden code to enable it."
Thanks...

It has been well documented that the 30 second skip and swap do not work with the 6412 and MSFE 1.7. The purpose of my post was to refer you to the codes (http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?cbl_0476)

Thanks, I did pick up the codes from your link... Though it appears the remote does all it can do, as is. The only other thing I really wanted was to program the volume up/down to my Denon receiver. The volume works in AUX mode, but I'd like it to work in Cable mode, too. Doesn't seem to be a way to do that, short of trying the JP1 thing...

Art, didn't you get a copy of the remote manual? You can assign the volume control to your Denon receiver using the "Changing Volume Lock" section. Code for Denon is either 1104 or 1360.

Ask, if you need more info.

Originally posted by artshotwell
Thanks, I did pick up the codes from your link... Though it appears the remote does all it can do, as is. The only other thing I really wanted was to program the volume up/down to my Denon receiver. The volume works in AUX mode, but I'd like it to work in Cable mode, too. Doesn't seem to be a way to do that, short of trying the JP1 thing...

It says how to do this in the instructions. I was able to make the remote control my audio receiver while in cable mode. I can't remember the exact instructions but I can look it up tonight if you can't figure it out.

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
It says how to do this in the instructions. I was able to make the remote control my audio receiver while in cable mode. I can't remember the exact instructions but I can look it up tonight if you can't figure it out.

I have not been able to get this functionality to work. I have the appropriate AUX codes for my receiver, but I haven't been able to get the volume to lock on AUX when I'm in cable mode. I did get the instructions... can somebody point me to how to lock the AUX volume control?

I haven't been able to do this, either, but then I don't know the code to use, anyway. Art

Am I missing it...or is not possible to do a keyword record?
Can I set the PVR to record any show that has 'James Bond' in the description? In other words, not a series record.

Originally posted by burger23
It has been well documented that the 30 second skip and swap do not work with the 6412 and MSFE 1.7. The purpose of my post was to refer you to the codes (http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?cbl_0476)
I wonder why this feature was omitted and if it is on the list of features to be added. Microsoft UltimateTV supports 30-second skip, which many UltimateTV and Tivo people consider as crucial.

BTW, I currently own an UltimateTV and DirecTivo. I am getting the 6412 and cable installed on Friday to try it out.

Shannon posted earlier that the feature is available in the MSTV platform but is disabled at Comcast's request. So I guess send complaints to Comcast. They're losing market share to satellite, so maybe they might actually listen to customers more now than they did when I left them in 2000 :-P

For those who experience poor quality on analog channels through the DCT6412, why not use the separate analog channel input cables that bypass the digital box? Feed a VCR or other unit that has an analog tuner with one of these cables and receive these channels with good quality, just as though you weren't receiving HDTV. I assume that all regions get the 3 input cables from Comcast, one for digital/HDTV and the other two for analog.

Originally posted by Steve McD
For those who experience poor quality on analog channels through the DCT6412, why not use the separate analog channel input cables that bypass the digital box? Feed a VCR or other unit that has an analog tuner with one of these cables and receive these channels with good quality, just as though you weren't receiving HDTV. I assume that all regions get the 3 input cables from Comcast, one for digital/HDTV and the other two for analog. Of course, one workaround is always simply to NOT USE the 6412. I switch to my ReplayTV if I need to watch cleaner analog channels. But the point is - the 6412 is doing EXACTLY the same thing as my Replay - it's digitizing & compressing the analog channels for buffering & recording. It should perform at least as well as the Replay, but it's not - it's noticably worse. I don't know if the problem is with the 6412's analog tuner (resulting in a noisier, harder-to-compress signal), or with its MPEG2 encoder (set at too-high compression to save space? just poor quality? buggy?).

BTW - I've noticed the local analog channels (4-5-6-7) exhibit the worst problems. Most other analog channels don't look *that* bad.

Originally posted by Steve McD
... I assume that all regions get the 3 input cables from Comcast, one for digital/HDTV and the other two for analog. And no - we get ONE cable in from the street, not three. It's up to us to have our own spliiters, distribution panels, etc after that.

Originally posted by jimre
I've noticed the local analog channels (4-5-6-7) exhibit the worst problems. Most other analog channels don't look *that* bad.
I contend that's because Comcast just isn't getting a clear off-the-air signal. Unilke most of their other analog channels, which arrive via satellite.

I assume Comcast & the stations are unwilling to pay for a better way to feed signals to Comcast, such as via satellite, microwave or fiber.

The analog PQ can be cause by the way the signal is comming into the TV. The Component and DVI inputs on TV do not have the 3D comb filters and othe processing tricks to clean up the dirty analog signals. Try using the composite connection to feed the TV for analog signals. The A/D compression artifacts will not go away but the noise should.

artshotwell... It's not the signal... It's the hardware.

The Image out of the 6412 looks horrible for all VHF Alanog channels. Basicaly the ones under Channel 100

The Same Image through my Sony's onboard VHF Tuner or through ATI's E Home Wonder looks just fine.

It comes down to the 6412... A Poor Quality Design of the MPEG2 encoding hardware or the use of a a cheaper part.

Here's an example of Manufacturer math... If a manufacturer can save $2 per box manufactured and they produce 10Million Boxes in 6 months... That's $20 Million savings (or additional profit) for the manufacturer over that 6 month time period. The bottom line is that the consumer gets stuck with result of these savings. (this is just an example situation)

The bottom line is that if we use the 6412 for watching Analog content, we get sub-par image quality.... Something I consider unacceptable.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Oddly enough, KCTS 9, which usually looks like junk (ghosting) on my TiVo, looks fine on my 6412. Go figure. I DVR everything, so I use TiVo for SD (I just prefer the UI) and the 6412 for Digital and HD (where quality is not an issue).

Originally posted by Nausicaa
Oddly enough, KCTS 9, which usually looks like junk (ghosting) on my TiVo, looks fine on my 6412. Go figure. I DVR everything, so I use TiVo for SD (I just prefer the UI) and the 6412 for Digital and HD (where quality is not an issue).

For that kind of difference I would suspect a connector or patch cable problem on the RF feed to your TiVo (SA, I assume).

Originally posted by xkode2002
Shannon posted earlier that the feature is available in the MSTV platform but is disabled at Comcast's request. So I guess send complaints to Comcast. They're losing market share to satellite, so maybe they might actually listen to customers more now than they did when I left them in 2000 :-P

TiVo Will No Longer Skip Past Advertisers (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-et-tivo17nov17,0,927837.story?coll=la-home-headline)

The headline is kind of misleading. What it really says is that you'll get banner ads as you skip past conventional ads. Personally I'm fine with the way the Comcast box handles it now, and I'd rather see that than other alternatives like more popup ads and more product placement within the shows.

--
Steve