Oh no you all cry! Not more settings! But it has plagued me over the last week with the spyder trying to get close to 6500 across the intensity range. It was either nice color balance or good contrast with too much green. I just couldn't get happy about it.

Well I've got both now and it looks superb! A combination of all the ideas so far which I don't doubt could be improved still.

You will need a new filter, a CC30R (This was one of jeremys early ideas but we couldn't get it to fit without the readouts from a calibration device). Well the CC30R allows you to run powerful, get that nice contrast and keep the green at the top end under control.

So here you go:

Start powerful, lamp low etc. IRIS where you want it, I would suggest go low as you can down to about -40s if you've got light control.

Contrast and brightness as always do yourself:

C: -8
B: 0
R: -3
G: 0
B: 0
Iris: -35
Gain R: +15
Gain G: 0
Gain B: -10
Offset: R: -15
Offset: G: +7
Offset B: +2

Gamma 0,0,0

Over and Out.

Is there really that much missing contrast?

I find it hard to notice as big a difference loss as the statistics suggest.

Yep just wait till you see the latest ones.

You're going to need to offer a new filter!

nice one ROne - just quickly tried these out with my LEE swatch of filters and on the desktop not with footage - looks like some more good work :)

I think i am going to add the CC30R to the current two filters and supply a complete set so everyone can try out and find their favourite settings - after all we have FOUR user settings we can store. Heres mine:

U1 Your own calibration
U2 Rones unfiltered natural settings
U3 Rones cc10y cc20r natural settings
U4 Rones cc30r settings

Should I still get the other 2 or will the CC30R be enough?

And again, as always, excellent work ROne!

Oh no you all cry! Not more settings! But it has plagued me over the last week with the spyder trying to get close to 6500 across the intensity range. It was either nice color balance or good contrast with too much green. I just couldn't get happy about it.

Well I've got both now and it looks superb! A combination of all the ideas so far which I don't doubt could be improved still.

You will need a new filter, a CC30R (This was one of jeremys early ideas but we couldn't get it to fit without the readouts from a calibration device). Well the CC30R allows you to run powerful, get that nice contrast and keep the green at the top end under control.

So here you go:

Start powerful, lamp low etc. IRIS where you want it, I would suggest go low as you can down to about -40s if you've got light control.

Contrast and brightness as always do yourself:

C: -8
B: 0
R: -3
G: 0
B: 0
Iris: -35
Gain R: +15
Gain G: 0
Gain B: -10
Offset: R: -15
Offset: G: +7
Offset B: +2

Gamma 0,0,0

Over and Out.

What about a good old fashion tweaking without a filter.

It would have to be easier.

Ok i will try once more with the filters,

Now will a 10R and 20R equal a 30R, i hope so. As i purchased a set.

I am willing to try this, but if the sky, clouds, ect, look dull, it's bye bye filters forever.

Check in later after more testing and tweaking.


GezzaZ3.

What about a good old fashion tweaking without a filter.

It would have to be easier.

Ok i will try once more with the filters,

Now will a 10R and 20R equal a 30R, i hope so. As i purchased a set.

I am willing to try this, but if the sky, clouds, ect, look dull, it's bye bye filters forever.

Check in later after more testing and tweaking.


GezzaZ3.

What light control have you got Gezza?

I ask this so I can get a fix on your specific needs ...

The problem with good old fashion tweaking without the filter (whilst possible) is good old fashioned results - it will also mean more of short-comings in the Z3s capability.

You have to prioritise, if you want super contrasty picture then reduce ambient light as much as possible, select POWERFUL preset with adaptive lamp mode, lower IRIS to -50 and live with green cast and hard clipped red at 90-100 IRE. That will get you about 1300:1 CR.

That is as contrasty as you're going to get, for more information go back through the whole thread - there was a time when filters didn't exist as regard the tweaking here.

Should I still get the other 2 or will the CC30R be enough?

And again, as always, excellent work ROne!

At this stage, get all the filters to play with.

I have no doubt though which are the best settings - CC30R.

I will do a CR measurement and I feel it will be pretty good.

How should I go about picking up a CC30R filter? What material should it be? I know Sainthalo takes requests, but I think it would be easier if I just look in my area for one (I have a huge photography store next to me).

And what mounting methods do people generally accept for putting filters on the Z3? I've heard a few so far.

ROne, your settings are via HDMI, correct? CC10y & CC30r filters?... or just the 30r only?
Thanks

ROne, your settings are via HDMI, correct? CC10y & CC30r filters?... or just the 30r only?
Thanks

All HDMI.

Not a clue what would happen on component or VGA, I would imagine they should be close from such as Jeremy's reports - who I think is on component.

How should I go about picking up a CC30R filter? What material should it be? I know Sainthalo takes requests, but I think it would be easier if I just look in my area for one (I have a huge photography store next to me).

And what mounting methods do people generally accept for putting filters on the Z3? I've heard a few so far.

It can be any material, gel, resin or poly - just go and see what is available in the store first as they may only have resin ones in. The resin ones are thicker and you need tools to cut them. The poly ones can be cut easily using trimmers or good scissors.

As for mounting people normally tape the poly ones on to the Z3 top/bottom lips and you need ideally 95mmx75mm poly filters for this. For a DIY mount take a look at my filter mount idea below:

http://rapidshare.de/files/5598199/sho_filters.zip.html

Click on free download and wait for 30 seconds.

Yes. Nice movie. That's right. Thanks.

ROne, your settings are via HDMI, correct? CC10y & CC30r filters?... or just the 30r only?
Thanks

Hey Rone, what about the filters?? Sorry to be a pain brother...:) Thanks!

Hey Rone, what about the filters?? Sorry to be a pain brother...:) Thanks!

My latest settings have done away with CC20R+10Y filters - for the CC30R which allows the Powerful preset but controls the green at the high end.

I only have a CC30R filter in place.

Hi all,

To ROne, i have complete light control, to ambient light.

I will try your new settings tonight, with the CC30R filter,

i would still love to compare, a tweaked setting without a filter.

I have, 100inch 1.1 Gain fixed screen Matte White.

I thought of another problem, sorry i meant to say variable. Distance from the screen.

I went for the middle, so i could have zoom in or out, but i was wondering if closer would be better.

I think this would have an impact on contrast and brightness.

what is everybody's distance from the screen.????

Gezza

Ok my findings,

I'm being honest, so i hope this doesn't offend anyone, sorry if it does.

ROne your new settings to me, look very similar to my saved settings #4.

#4 saved settings is Jeremy's one starting on Dynamic.

Now to my eyes, i think it better without the filters and on my #4 setting.

I find some scenes look a bit dull and dark. It is probably Contrast and brightness.

I find you loose quite a bit using the filters, probably 20%, as soon as i take them off, it's punchy and bright.

The Colors were excellent by the way. but why live with a darker image, take the filters off and set it to Jeremy's setting and try it for yourselves.

Please try this setting before you make a comment, also i was using HDMI DVD Player.

So that's it for me, no more filters.

What's next,

Gezza

Gezzza, no, you won't offend anybody your input is welcome.

A couple of things though, yes the filters will cut light output, but won't cut contrast when correctly calibrated.

So you ask, why live with a duller apparent picture? Well Black-level ... one of the biggest criticisms with LCD is the ability to produce a good black, now the filters cut light output at both ends, BLACK and WHITE, so you will see lower overall lumens but if you have good light control this is the way to go.

However if you can't stand your light output being cut then open up the IRIS! This will restore light-output and more,back to as if it was none filtered! Your black will be slightly bluer and brighter but you can't have everything. The other option is to turn on the adaptive lamp mode and you will have brighter peak white.

So what we've established after (in my case 400hrs) of messing with the project is that you can't have everything.

I am willing to have a slightly duller picture for better black level but the same contrast as without filters. The trade-off without filters is a brighter picture along with a brighter black level!

Horses for courses; but one of the criticisms for the CRT projection device was its sometimes apparent dullness, this was because of its super-low black level and its not so bright peak white. But the difference between the two were immense, as long as you'd got light control.

The thing is without filters the picture is not near to D65, it's too green at one end and clipped, and too blue at the other but its does give you a bright picture. Also without the filters its very difficult to get a correct white level in powerful without clipping unless you lower the contrast setting to very low levels.

Gezza & ROne, It only goes to show that whatever the viewer perceives is good pq is the right setting. Each has it own tendencies so even a "correctly" calibrated image could be off by so much for different people. The advantage I see of using a calibration device, like ROne's, is the picture should theoretically be the same as when it was produced. Personally, I had my wife pick what she likes (with or without filters) and that's it. At any rate, the settings put here are be a good starting points and thanks for posting your settings... :)

Why is D65 the shiznit? What makes it so special?? If I was to have an ISF Calibration done?... is this what they would tune it too? Why?

I curiously ask the same question why 6500k?

Light Source (D65) = Special daylight or natural daylight

In 1965 the "CIE" recommended new illuminants to supplement the Light Sources (A), (B) and (C) designed by (D) and a number corresponding to its color temperature. The most important of this series is D6500 with a correlated color temperature of 6500 Kelvin.

It's basically the measure of the most natural (aka realistic, subjectively best) looking color. The color temperature of a light source is expressed in Kelvin (K) scale. Why? Planck's Radiation Formula, blah blah blah, integrated spectral energy distribution, etc.

My computer monitor has 3 settings. 9300K, 6550K, and a "user" mode which I can seperately adjust the 3 colors. I have it on the user function but the colors are a lot closer to 9300 than 6550. I think the 6550 setting seems too yellow, glowing and to me un-natural. What does this mean for me and can it be compared to what we're talking about here? I usually also prefer higher brightness and contrast settings on my TVs too, but also looking as real and natural as possible. My biggest pet peeve though is when blacks aren't really black. I HATE that.

A couple of things; we haven't just blindly made D65 up!

D65 is a reference of colour temperature which is used when the film is telecine-d to video or DVD. The operator is using specific bulbs and reference points to make sure the conversion’s colour temperature is at this point across the range black to white, or greyscale.

So when you calibrate your system to D65 you’re effectively referencing your system to how the film-making process is referenced!

The film you see on your projector is closer to how the film-makers intended.

Much of what exists in the calibration chain on a projector relies on this, the saturation, contrast ratio, black level ... Without it, especially on LCD projectors you will find you are actually driving contrast far to high and clipping parts of the color balance.

So if you are willing to argue that you don't like this reference point, then fair enough but you must also accept that all other reference points such as black level are pretty much moot without it.

I knew you'd find a way to get a CC30R tweaked, ROne! My gel filters are showing a little warping, so I'll swing by my local used equipment place and pray they have a CC30R in for $6.00 like I got my others. Will report back when I've tried it. For now, I'm happy as hell with my current settings and will be more happy on the X-Box 360 release date. ;)

Has anyone else noticed the coloruniformity issue with there Z3? I notice the left side of the screen has a ever-so slight yellow tint to it and the right is pink. I did notice this with my old Panny 200u as well and know that this is a common issue with LCD PJ's. Has anyone found a way to even out the color? I do only notice it dur sky shots with clouds.

Will this CC30R filter help and if so can someone post a link as to where I might find it?

As a side note, I did, just last night, start calibrating with AVIA and have yet to complete it so this may help with the color as well.


Thanks in advance!

Ron-P, I could be totally wrong, but could it be your screen?

I knew you'd find a way to get a CC30R tweaked, ROne! My gel filters are showing a little warping, so I'll swing by my local used equipment place and pray they have a CC30R in for $6.00 like I got my others. Will report back when I've tried it. For now, I'm happy as hell with my current settings and will be more happy on the X-Box 360 release date. ;)

Hi Jeremy,

Just wondering if you have had any luck getting the CC30R filter. If not send me a PM and I can mail you one.

Im using it now and its pretty much spot on.

Regards,
sainthalo

Sainthalo, I'd like to get one from you if I can.

Ron-P, I could be totally wrong, but could it be your screen?
It's not the screen. My Panny 200u exhibited the same and I've had several different colors of screens to test it against.

Is anyone using the component input without a 1dB line level attenuator with ROne´s setting? And in that case are they a perfect match or do they need to be tweaked a little bit more?

I've tried Rone's unfiltered settings, Jeremy's settings, my own calibration, but at the end of the day, I like the factory defaults best!?! Is this weird? I can't tell if it's off at all, but no complaints from the gf either.

Has anyone opted for a pro to calibrate their system?

Tompa39: The line level attenuator is NOT for grayscale... so you don't really need it to get grayscale to match up (which is what ROne is trying to do with his settings). The line level attenuator is used because the component inputs have about a 5-10% red push in the color decoder. Accordingly, placing a 1dB line level attenuator on the Cr lead of the component cable cuts just enough signal to compensate for this excess red. If you aren't using a line level attenuator, you simply dial COLOR back slightly using Avia's color decoder test pattern.

Ron-P: Yes, there is a color uniformity issue, and it is made more noticeable the more you close the iris (because of where the iris is in the light path). Using filters cuts overall light output (which is a tradeoff, because it helps with light leakage in blacks), thus letting you open the iris up more... which helps significantly with uniformity. To see what I mean, put up a 100IRE full-screen pattern on AVIA and then open and close the iris. You should see exactly what I'm talking about.

sainthalo: The local place I get filters has had to cut their schedule back to two days a week because of hurricane damage, so I haven't been able to check with them to see if they have one. They're supposed to be open tomorrow, however, so I'm going to take a break from work and swing by there. The guy has a whole box of used Kodak gel filters that he sells cheap... so if I see several CC30R's in there, I'll buy them all and try to share the love. I think I remember him having some 30's in there when I went to get my CC10Y filter (which he actually gave to me for free). If I can't get one from him tomorrow, I'll shoot you a message.

Finalheaven: Home theater is all about what YOU like. So if you're cool with the defaults, stick with it. But then you have the dark side of home theater: THE TWEAKERS. We poke and prod until everything is PERFECT, or as close to reference as we can get it. In this case, the reference is obtained by getting proper grayscale, calibrating contrast so whites don't clip, calibrating brightness so shadow detail isn't lost, and ensuring that color decoding is set properly.

It's a case of ignorance is bliss, to be honest. Once you've seen a properly calibrated display, you get to where you see other peoples' theaters and think "wow, their video looks HORRIBLE!" It's the same with the audio side. I spent significant time measuring my subwoofer's in-room response, equalizing for flat response to get rid of peaks, balancing each speaker, etc. to get the audio in my room as close to reference as I could. Now when I hear home theaters with ear-calibrated audio, it annoys the hell out of me. In fact, now I can't stand to go to an actual theater, because the sound is almost never set up right.

In other words, don't feel bad if you like the default settings. As long as you're happy with it, stop listening to us and go watch some movies! ;)

[QUOTE=Jeremy Anderson]Tompa39: The line level attenuator is NOT for grayscale... so you don't really need it to get grayscale to match up (which is what ROne is trying to do with his settings). The line level attenuator is used because the component inputs have about a 5-10% red push in the color decoder. Accordingly, placing a 1dB line level attenuator on the Cr lead of the component cable cuts just enough signal to compensate for this excess red. If you aren't using a line level attenuator, you simply dial COLOR back slightly using Avia's color decoder test pattern.

I know that it has nothing to do with the grayscale .. I used DVE to tweak brightness and contrast abit as it might vary slightly .. I never was any good at setting up the colors using the filters provided with DVE, so perhaps i´ll just enjoy a couple of movies instead and leave the tweaking for a rainy day .. The picture looks awesome now with the cc30r filter btw ..

ROne, did you ever nail down the contrast rating for your latest round of tweaks with the CC30R filter? Also if you measured it do you have the lumen reading for the powerful mode with filter at D65? Thanks.

Moe

Yeah, I was kinda' curious about that myself. Was contrast better than the last round of tweaks or about the same?

ROne, did you ever nail down the contrast rating for your latest round of tweaks with the CC30R filter? Also if you measured it do you have the lumen reading for the powerful mode with filter at D65? Thanks.

Moe

Okay the contrast measurement, the best I got out of the sanyo was about 1100:1 without filters using powerful mode, but this was false. When I got the spyder I realised how far off D65 was especially at 90IRE. You maybe won't always notice this because you're not as sensitive to shifts in colour balance at the upper end and this is why some people prefer the punchier picture, they don't realise how green their image is - it might be a fair sacrifice.

So, the filters combined with a D65 reading, and being able to exploit that powerful settings (excess green, which you have to cut back my a huge amount un-filtered, so your CR takes a dive to about 600:1). The CC30R allows the powerful setting to push your GAINS hard enough to improve the CR ratio while maintaining with my most recent setting a decent 6500 reading across the board (though it was +/- about 100, which was as close as I could get it).

To that end I was getting about 1050:1 again but at D65! May not seem such a triumph but when you appreciate colour balance + contrast ratio is key to a nice picture and analyze other projectors D65 CR settings you will see it's pretty good. I did not however record a lumens reading, sorry.

If you put your adaptive bulb up to A1, you can get another 150-200:1 at the expense of fan noise which puts you in the ball park maximum cine4home got filtered.

Also as people on here have pointed out you getter a dimmer picture (but with a better black I may add) with the filter in place, however there are plenty of settings on the Z3 to give more light output, so this shouldn't be a problem.

Crazily, I've just sold my Z3 after 1 years worth of viewing and only finally arrived at my best picture!

I have a Z4 on the way today with a bit of luck!

Good contrast at D65? That's sweet! Can't wait to see what kind of performance you get out of the Z4, ROne.

I've been muddling about in the service manual (thanks to a poster at avforums.com), and I think I've found the service menu options for the color decoder section. The service manual is available here (http://www.sanyo.co.uk/Web%20Publishing/www.SANYO.co.uk/Service%20Manuals/LCD%20Projectors/PLV-Z3.pdf) for anyone who is curious.

Anyhoo, I'm familiar with the service menus on my RPTV, and it looks like the adjustment for color decoding is done the same way (R-Y/R = red phase, R-Y/B = red gain, G-Y/R = green phase, G-Y/B = green gain). If this is correct, it should enable us to cut the red level in the decoder, which would make the 1dB line level attenuator unnecessary. It should also let us raise the green gain, considering green decoding is about -10% if you line up blue. This weekend, I'll spend some quality time with Avia's color-specific bars and see if I can line up the decoder. If it works, I'll post detailed directions here for the hardcore tweakers.

I may also dig up some old info on the Z2 to see what the panel alignment options were in the service menu, since that might help those with a slight misalignment. Will check back in this weekend.

Ron-P: Yes, there is a color uniformity issue, and it is made more noticeable the more you close the iris (because of where the iris is in the light path). Using filters cuts overall light output (which is a tradeoff, because it helps with light leakage in blacks), thus letting you open the iris up more... which helps significantly with uniformity. To see what I mean, put up a 100IRE full-screen pattern on AVIA and then open and close the iris. You should see exactly what I'm talking about.
Good deal, I will try it tonight, thanks Jeremy.

Jeremy: Are you saying that it is possible for a service menu adjustment to do the same thing as the filters? If the colors can be fixed then a ND filter could be used to bring the light leakage down.

I am using the CC10Y+CC20R (from sainthalo) combo right now and have the CC30R on order. I am very happy with the picture quality, but I am a tweaking freak and always need more :)

I have heard a few people say that the filters degrade over time. How long before they have to be replaced?

I non-filtered solution would be great!

No, you still need the filter. The service menu adjustment might correct COLOR DECODING. The filters are for grayscale. It might, however, eliminate the need for the line level attenuator on the component video's red lead.

My local shop didn't have a CC30R, so I placed a quick order with B&H. Should get here next Tuesday, and then I'll check out ROne's last round of settings.

ROne, I hope you'll start a Z4 tweak thread when you have possession of your new pj. I may get that as well and I look forward your calibration of it.

Moe

ROne, I hope you'll start a Z4 tweak thread when you have possession of your new pj. I may get that as well and I look forward your calibration of it.

Moe

Hes going to have one over on avforums, but maybe he will have one over there in the states too!

Okay, I got into playing with the service mode, and I've now completely eliminated the need for the 1dB line level attenuator. The following is for those using component video, and requires that you own The Avia Guide To Home Theater. HDMI/DVI users shouldn't need this, as color decoding is reportedly correct for those inputs. The following are detailed instructions for lining up the color decoder so that blue, green and red are all set to NTSC standards (though PAL users should be able to do this too if they have a PAL version of AVIA).

First, put in the Avia Guide to Home Theater and go to the color bars section. Set the lamp mode on the Z3 to HIGH. If you have a line level attenuator on the Cr component lead, you can take it out of the line. Put up the BLUE COLOR BARS and adjust COLOR and TINT in the user menu while holding the blue filter over your eyes (see Avia's instructions on this for more details). Once you have color and tint lined up, the rest will be done in the service menu. IMPORTANT NOTE: Before you change ANYTHING in the service menu, write down your original values!!!! The defaults are listed in the service manual, but be warned nonetheless.

1. To enter the service menu, press and hold the MENU and INPUT buttons on the projector for 5 seconds. An "S" will appear in the corner of the screen. When the S is on screen, press and hold the SCREEN button on the remote until the service menu appears.
2. Press the SELECT key on the remote until the Group Number changes to 4.
3. Press POINT UP until the Item Number changes to 15.
4. On your DVD player, go to Avia's RED COLOR BARS pattern and look through the red filter.
5. Adjust item 15 with the POINT LEFT and POINT RIGHT buttons until you have red and white at the same level (the saturation section of the screen). Oddly, raising the value actually lowers the level... so to bring red push down, you want to raise this value.
6. Press POINT UP to go to Item 16. Adjust this left and right until you have the HUE portion of the pattern matching while looking through the red filter. You might have to bounce back and forth between items 16 and 15, making adjustments until you can no longer see the boxes blinking on the red color bars pattern.
7. Once you have red lined up, change to Avia's GREEN COLOR BARS pattern and look through the green filter.
8. Press UP until you're on Item 17. Adjust using left and right until green and white are at the same level.
9. Press up to go to Item 18 and adjust the hue portion of the green pattern until that matches. As with red, you may have to ping-pong between 17 and 18 to get both saturation and hue to match up.
10. Once you've done this, change to Avia's COLOR DECODER CHECK (first item in Special Tests). If you've properly adjusted the color decoder with the above steps, the red should match up to the white background at the 0% mark when looking through the red filter (meaning that red is now at the proper level), the green should match at 0% when looking through the green filter, and blue should match at 0% when looking through blue.
11. If you're satisfied that all three colors are at 0%, press the POWER button once to exit the service menu. You can now change your lamp mode back to where it was before.

You should end up with FAR better yellows, and thus far the greens seem improved for me (most notably on football and baseball fields). For reference, here's what I ended up with for settings across the board with a CC20R and CC10Y filter combo in place, starting with POWERFUL mode (slightly modified from ROne's last CC20R/CC10Y settings and compared to my ISF'd RPTV):
Contrast +2
Brightness -5
Color +2
Tint +1
Red +9
Green +5
Blue -3
Sharpness -4
Gamma +1
Lamp Low
Iris -40
Gain R +10
Gain G +3
Gain B -9
Offset R -13
Offset G +5
Offset B +7
Gamma R 0
Gamma G 0
Gamma B 0
Auto Black Stretch Off (this changes black level based on the average picture level, and should always be left off, especially when calibrating contrast/brightness)
Contrast Enhancement Off
Transient Improvement Off
Service menu Items (480p - defaults will differ if you're using 720p/1080i):
Item New Default
15 +13 +10
16 +13 +6
17 +5 +9
18 +2 +7

The caveats: The color decoder values are different for each resolution. In other words, if you have a 720p pattern on screen, the defaults for items 15-18 will be different. The service manual (link posted in thread previously) has the default values for items 15-18 in each display resolution.

Happy tweaking, all! I'm off to spin a couple of DVD's on this thing! I'll report back after I get my CC30R filter and try ROne's optimized settings for that.

Okay, I got into playing with the service mode, and I've now completely eliminated the need for the 1dB line level attenuator. The following is for those using component video, and requires that you own The Avia Guide To Home Theater. HDMI/DVI users shouldn't need this, as color decoding is reportedly correct for those inputs. The following are detailed instructions for lining up the color decoder so that blue, green and red are all set to NTSC standards (though PAL users should be able to do this too if they have a PAL version of AVIA).

First, put in the Avia Guide to Home Theater and go to the color bars section. Set the lamp mode on the Z3 to HIGH. If you have a line level attenuator on the Cr component lead, you can take it out of the line. Put up the BLUE COLOR BARS and adjust COLOR and TINT in the user menu while holding the blue filter over your eyes (see Avia's instructions on this for more details). Once you have color and tint lined up, the rest will be done in the service menu. IMPORTANT NOTE: Before you change ANYTHING in the service menu, write down your original values!!!! The defaults are listed in the service manual, but be warned nonetheless.

1. To enter the service menu, press and hold the MENU and INPUT buttons on the projector for 5 seconds. An "S" will appear in the corner of the screen. When the S is on screen, press and hold the SCREEN button on the remote until the service menu appears.
2. Press the SELECT key on the remote until the Group Number changes to 4.
3. Press POINT UP until the Item Number changes to 15.
4. On your DVD player, go to Avia's RED COLOR BARS pattern and look through the red filter.
5. Adjust item 15 with the POINT LEFT and POINT RIGHT buttons until you have red and white at the same level (the saturation section of the screen). Oddly, raising the value actually lowers the level... so to bring red push down, you want to raise this value.
6. Press POINT UP to go to Item 16. Adjust this left and right until you have the HUE portion of the pattern matching while looking through the red filter. You might have to bounce back and forth between items 16 and 15, making adjustments until you can no longer see the boxes blinking on the red color bars pattern.
7. Once you have red lined up, change to Avia's GREEN COLOR BARS pattern and look through the green filter.
8. Press UP until you're on Item 17. Adjust using left and right until green and white are at the same level.
9. Press up to go to Item 18 and adjust the hue portion of the green pattern until that matches. As with red, you may have to ping-pong between 17 and 18 to get both saturation and hue to match up.
10. Once you've done this, change to Avia's COLOR DECODER CHECK (first item in Special Tests). If you've properly adjusted the color decoder with the above steps, the red should match up to the white background at the 0% mark when looking through the red filter (meaning that red is now at the proper level), the green should match at 0% when looking through the green filter, and blue should match at 0% when looking through blue.
11. If you're satisfied that all three colors are at 0%, press the POWER button once to exit the service menu. You can now change your lamp mode back to where it was before.

You should end up with FAR better yellows, and thus far the greens seem improved for me (most notably on football and baseball fields). For reference, here's what I ended up with for settings across the board with a CC20R and CC10Y filter combo in place, starting with POWERFUL mode (slightly modified from ROne's last CC20R/CC10Y settings and compared to my ISF'd RPTV):
Contrast +2
Brightness -5
Color +2
Tint +1
Red +9
Green +5
Blue -3
Sharpness -4
Gamma +1
Lamp Low
Iris -40
Gain R +10
Gain G +3
Gain B -9
Offset R -13
Offset G +5
Offset B +7
Gamma R 0
Gamma G 0
Gamma B 0
Auto Black Stretch Off (this changes black level based on the average picture level, and should always be left off, especially when calibrating contrast/brightness)
Contrast Enhancement Off
Transient Improvement Off
Service menu Items (480p - defaults will differ if you're using 720p/1080i):
Item New Default
15 +13 +10
16 +13 +6
17 +5 +9
18 +2 +7

The caveats: The color decoder values are different for each resolution. In other words, if you have a 720p pattern on screen, the defaults for items 15-18 will be different. The service manual (link posted in thread previously) has the default values for items 15-18 in each display resolution.

Happy tweaking, all! I'm off to spin a couple of DVD's on this thing! I'll report back after I get my CC30R filter and try ROne's optimized settings for that.

Really excellent work!! I´m wondering though, I have a PAL version of DVE .. Could this be used aswell or is the AVIA PAL recommended .. I have the NTSC version of AVIA, but considering that I mostly watch PAL movies I should probably use a PAL based version of AVIA instead, right? Would be sweet if I could get this tweaked aswell .. I´m fairly confident that once I am done with that, I won´t change the settings ever again :p

Considering that each resolution has different settings for those Item numbers, you would actually have to calibrate both NTSC and PAL independently. DVE's color bars pattern should let you do the color decoder tweak because it has the green, cyan, magenta, etc. on that pattern as well. Might take a little more work, but it should be doable. What you might try is doing the NTSC with Avia first as laid out above, then writing down what numbers you get for that... and try plugging them in when you're doing it with DVE PAL to see if it gets you at least in the ballpark. I'm not sure what the color space differences are between NTSC and PAL, but I wouldn't think it would be radically different. I would try plugging in the same numbers you end up with on NTSC and then do a little fine-tuning on PAL.

I just spun the movie STEALTH on my Z3, and I'm really liking the results. Forests, grass, etc. have a deeper green now, and yellows aren't as orange. Fleshtones are vastly improved, with less red in shadowed areas. INHD should be showing their Tune-Up program early in the morning that has a color calibration pattern, so I'm going to use that to tweak the decoding on both my 720p and 1080i settings (by changing my HD-DVR box's output resolution so it scales). Overall, I think this is an outstanding tweak for component video users!

I'm still poking around through old Z2 material to see if I can find any similar tweaks between them (i.e. panel alignment that isn't correctable through the Z3's VB adjustment). I'll post anything else I dig up.

Considering that each resolution has different settings for those Item numbers, you would actually have to calibrate both NTSC and PAL independently. DVE's color bars pattern should let you do the color decoder tweak because it has the green, cyan, magenta, etc. on that pattern as well. Might take a little more work, but it should be doable. What you might try is doing the NTSC with Avia first as laid out above, then writing down what numbers you get for that... and try plugging them in when you're doing it with DVE PAL to see if it gets you at least in the ballpark. I'm not sure what the color space differences are between NTSC and PAL, but I wouldn't think it would be radically different. I would try plugging in the same numbers you end up with on NTSC and then do a little fine-tuning on PAL.

Ok, I guess I can try that .. I only have the filters that are provided with DVE as i´ve lost the ones that I had for AVIA .. Those will work fine for AVIA aswell?

Are you going to have to change these settings again once you get your CC30R or is that not needed?

I just ordered the Z3 with an OPPO DVD player. I currently also have an HTPC, but I wanted to keep it simple for others using the system and bought a DVD player, since my other one just died.

I would like to know if I should get the CC20R and CC10Y filters, or just the CC30R filter. Also, how should I connect my Z3 and OPPO? Should I use DVI-HDMI or component? I noticed that you recommend getting a 1dB attenuator for the Cr cable.

I am thinking of getting wall plates for the component and DVI-HDMI cables. Will this cause any noticeable signal degradation? Is it highly recommended for me to connect this PJ directly to the sources, without any plates?

Also, which screen do you recommend for this PJ? I would like to get good viewing angles, although most of the time I will be viewing it directly.

Which program do you think I should use to calibrate this PJ. I currently have DVE (NTSC Component version), AVIA, and Sound & Vision HT Tune-Up Guide.

Thanks for any help.

I received my CC30R filter yesterday, went with ROnes settings and then tweaked with DVE. Best picture yet. Colors look very natural and contrast is very good.

I use HDMI with HD sat box and component (using -1dB on red) with DVD player. Both look great with these settings.

I think that my only issue with this setup is going to be having to replace the filters when they degrade. I have not found a cheap source for the filters in my area and ordering online, with shipping costs, is $25CDN per filter.


TazExprez:

I would get the CC30R filter and use HDMI.

I have a 92" Da-Lite HCMW (grey) screen and am very happy with it. I have 4 seats across, about 10.5' away from screen and don't notice any significant difference from 1 seat to any other. The only thing that I have noticed on the 2 end seats is on very bright scenes you sometimes see a very bright "speck" (spot of light) on the screen. I think that this is from the bright light reflecting on the screen material in just the right way. Not a major problem for me.

DVE or AVIA, both would work fine.

Time to put some hours on my bulb.....

Thanks a lot for your help. I'll order the CC30R filter and the 1dB attenuator.

Are your two end seats on a big angle from the screen? My seating will be mostly directly in front of the screen, but the seating on the left end will be slightly off. The people sitting at this end will also be closer to the screen, at about 10'. Also, I may use an extra chair to the right of the sofa. This would also be at a slight angle.

I have included a picture of my sofa and the area where I plan to put my screen. I have colored in the screen, btw.

I would also like to know where I could get a cheap material to act as a temporary screen. I would like to get a temporary screen to see what size I should get mine. Btw, what if I get a 106" screen and don't want to use the whole screen? If I only use 92" of it, will the "white" borders be annoying? Is it highly recommended to always strech images to the black borders?

Thanks for all of your help.

Here are this images.

You guys will be pleased to know so far I can't better the Z3s CR unless I use the adaptive iris which is just too excitable in some of the picture modes.

I have done a Z4 CR measurement with the adaptive Iris on using powerful and it will yield an incredible 6895:1 ! But the iris makes dark scenes really distracting, it could do with turning off below 30iRE.

ROne - just a thought but powlest found a service manual for the Z3 - maybe if you play around with the url etc you can track down the z4 service manual and help sort out that iris. Amazing CR though with the iris!

Geerguy - glad they got their safely :)

Jeremy - Wish i could join in with your tweaks but i exclusively use the htpc dvi hdmi connection

ROne - just a thought but powlest found a service manual for the Z3 - maybe if you play around with the url etc you can track down the z4 service manual and help sort out that iris. Amazing CR though with the iris!

Geerguy - glad they got their safely :)

Jeremy - Wish i could join in with your tweaks but i exclusively use the htpc dvi hdmi connection

I did actually think of that, but I've found a work around ... In the new Z4 tweak thread epic!

Considering that each resolution has different settings for those Item numbers, you would actually have to calibrate both NTSC and PAL independently. DVE's color bars pattern should let you do the color decoder tweak because it has the green, cyan, magenta, etc. on that pattern as well. Might take a little more work, but it should be doable. What you might try is doing the NTSC with Avia first as laid out above, then writing down what numbers you get for that... and try plugging them in when you're doing it with DVE PAL to see if it gets you at least in the ballpark. I'm not sure what the color space differences are between NTSC and PAL, but I wouldn't think it would be radically different. I would try plugging in the same numbers you end up with on NTSC and then do a little fine-tuning on PAL.

I just spun the movie STEALTH on my Z3, and I'm really liking the results. Forests, grass, etc. have a deeper green now, and yellows aren't as orange. Fleshtones are vastly improved, with less red in shadowed areas. INHD should be showing their Tune-Up program early in the morning that has a color calibration pattern, so I'm going to use that to tweak the decoding on both my 720p and 1080i settings (by changing my HD-DVR box's output resolution so it scales). Overall, I think this is an outstanding tweak for component video users!

I'm still poking around through old Z2 material to see if I can find any similar tweaks between them (i.e. panel alignment that isn't correctable through the Z3's VB adjustment). I'll post anything else I dig up.

Ok, I did like you suggested and it worked great .. I adjusted tint/color to begin with and then went on to adjust red and green through the service menu .. I ended up with almost the same values as you did, + - a notch here or there .. I then used the DVE PAL color pattern to tweak it according to PAL .. Actually the changes in values where only minor but I ended up with a perfect color pattern .. Together with the CC30R and these new system values the picture is more or less perfect. and I don´t think it will get any better than this .. All I need to do now is to stock up on some filters .. Thanks a bunch Jeremy, excellent work both by you and ROne as usual .. :)

No problem, Tompa. I actually redid mine a bit today, because the yellows were a little too vibrant. A few minor modifications, and it looks gorgeous. I spun Batman Begins on it for a third time tonight (for a friend) and you can definitely tell a difference in the midtones of people's faces. Having proper color decoding helps a lot. I have no idea why they can do perfect decoding with HDMI, but have red push and green pull on component.

Taz, if you're willing to do the service menu tweak I outlined, you don't need the 1dB attenuator for the component input. I took mine out before I did the color decoder tweaking, and now it looks better and has no more red push (which is what the attenuator was there to fix). If, however, you don't want to go mucking about in the service menus, the attenuator definitely helps with the excess red. After my decoder tweaks, my attenuator is now resting peacefully in one of my drawers.

I'll report back after I get the CC30R filter in and try ROne's optimized settings for it. Until then, I'm watching movies! ;)

Thanks a lot for your help.

Like how many hours does a filter last, btw?

I've run mine for about 600 hours since putting the filters in place, and they're starting to warp a little now. However, if you mount them like some people are over at avforums.com using plastic food lids, that should prevent warping. Then you just have to worry about the filter fading, but that should take a while.

That CC30R and Powerful mode were made for each other.

I wish I was back in Z3 tweak land, it's lonely out here. :)

I've run mine for about 600 hours since putting the filters in place, and they're starting to warp a little now. However, if you mount them like some people are over at avforums.com using plastic food lids, that should prevent warping. Then you just have to worry about the filter fading, but that should take a while.

There are more details on the mounting here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222774&page=14&pp=15

Presentation:
http://rapidshare.de/files/5598199/sho_filters.zip.html

Image:
http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/6848/dscn14066ue.jpg

I've tried Rone's unfiltered settings, Jeremy's settings, my own calibration, but at the end of the day, I like the factory defaults best!?! Is this weird? I can't tell if it's off at all, but no complaints from the gf either.


I'm with you on that one. I've tried all the different tweaks, and I have to say that none of them look all that great to my eyes... too dark in fact, and a little depressing. All the outdoor scenes look like it's always about to rain.

The Powerful factory default does it for me; The colours are punchy and bright, and look almost plasma-like on my SilverStar. Of course some might complain that the whites are too bright, but that's the way I like it and my friends and wife agree. The lighter blacks don't bother me at all; Maybe it's just an optical illusion but when contrasted against brighter shades, the overall effect is black as intended unless you're focusing on it with a critical eye.

Also I've squinted and stared but I just can't see this "blue"-black phemonenon that people are trying to filter out -- not even the slightest hint of blue. It could be my screen, or maybe I need to get my eyeglass perscription updated :) .

No problem, Tompa. I actually redid mine a bit today, because the yellows were a little too vibrant. A few minor modifications, and it looks gorgeous. I spun Batman Begins on it for a third time tonight (for a friend) and you can definitely tell a difference in the midtones of people's faces. Having proper color decoding helps a lot. I have no idea why they can do perfect decoding with HDMI, but have red push and green pull on component.

Taz, if you're willing to do the service menu tweak I outlined, you don't need the 1dB attenuator for the component input. I took mine out before I did the color decoder tweaking, and now it looks better and has no more red push (which is what the attenuator was there to fix). If, however, you don't want to go mucking about in the service menus, the attenuator definitely helps with the excess red. After my decoder tweaks, my attenuator is now resting peacefully in one of my drawers.

I'll report back after I get the CC30R filter in and try ROne's optimized settings for it. Until then, I'm watching movies! ;)


Yeah, give a shout out once you get the filter and have tried it out .. Perhaps you´ll come up with something new, who knows (i´m worried that the tweaking of system values might have screwed up the colors that ROne had set up but it does look very nice indeed .. I will toggle back to the original systemvalues later tonight to check the differance in colors).. Back to the theatre, the hostage dvd is spinning hot :)

Edit: My numbers came down to this:

Group 4
NO 15 +14
NO 16 +12
NO 17 +5
NO 18 +2

The red was quite of for me compared to your values, so I had to tweak them abit .. The green was impossible to get 100% but I found that the values you had came very close .. I compared the picture with the original one from ROne and the changes where minor but i´m betting that it does make a differance in some scenes .. These values might help those that use PAL based dvds

Is there anyone who can help me. I have Z3 its standard and Denon 1920. I use hdmi and 720p. Can someone please tell me what tweaks i should do. I have tried to read and understand this thread but... =(
What should i change to get the best picture? I have tried with "the calibrator" but it looks like ****, dont think im the tweak master =) So please help me.

Is there anyone who can help me. I have Z3 its standard and Denon 1920. I use hdmi and 720p. Can someone please tell me what tweaks i should do. I have tried to read and understand this thread but... =(
What should i change to get the best picture? I have tried with "the calibrator" but it looks like ****, dont think im the tweak master =) So please help me.

Follow the thread carefully for tips and tricks .. DVE or AVIA is way better than the calibrator when it comes to tweaking the picture quality with gray scales and such .. It´s not easy at first, but don´t give up and try many diffrent settings and write down values that you like and then tweak them even further .. Happy tweaking!

Thanks tompa but i would be happier if someone could write down their settings because it will take me that much time to read that whole thread. i think my z3 will be in the museum when im done. So i was thinking if someone that likes to tweak could help me with the settings they like.
Hope u understand.

Personally, I don't understand why anyone should have to repost their settings because you're too disinterested to read the thread. Scroll back through the last few pages and you'll find what you need.

You can always do what I did dsundelin. I printed out this entire thread, bound it together and started reading it like a book. It's much easier to read on paper then on screen.

this is my first projector, got some questions..

is there a specific setting circulating on the web to maximise the picture quality from your sanyo Z3?

or are there different settings? dark rooms, small screens etc all have an influence?

Can someone post settings?

don't blame me, I don't want to check 19 pages

HINT: If you click on the "Thread Tools" and select the "Download This Thread" you will get the entire thread as a single "PLV-Z3_Tweak_Thread.rtf" document. This can be read, and searched, using "Wordpad" (preferred), "Notepad", or any other simple word-processing software program. That makes it much easier to find the "settings" that others have posted.

So, I just got my Z3 about a week ago. I've been running it pretty perfectly, but I made my first mistake you could say.

I turned the Z3 on to warm it up, and it was displaying the blue screen with the No Signal box in the bottom. It was counting down from 5.

I was adjusting my PJ on the cart, messing around with angles and what not, and I forgot about the countdown. All of the sudden the screen disappeared and the red light started flashing.

I was like, "oh no, I forgot about the signal. Well, since it's already shutting itself down, I'll plug in the HDMI cable, and let it stay shut off for awhile before turning it on."

Well, apparently, it detected the signal anyway while it was shutting off, and turned itself back on. There came a tiny *zap* sound from inside and the lamp came back on.

So, did I "kill" my lamp's life by doing that? :p

Suckie. lol. And all cause the woman distracted me.

Finalhaven
Your screwed. This is a big no-no when it comes to projectors. Your lamp will be lucky to last 100 hours... if that. Sorry:(

































Just kidding:) I actually have no idea:)

I don't think you killed your lamp life. That said, I wouldn't make a habit of doing that.

I got my CC30R filter in today, so I'll try it when I get home. And then I'm spinning a review copy of Revenge Of The Sith on it, so WHEE! Will report back tonight.

I don't think you killed your lamp life. That said, I wouldn't make a habit of doing that.

I got my CC30R filter in today, so I'll try it when I get home. And then I'm spinning a review copy of Revenge Of The Sith on it, so WHEE! Will report back tonight.

How about the latest Batman movie?... :D

I don't think you killed your lamp life. That said, I wouldn't make a habit of doing that.

I got my CC30R filter in today, so I'll try it when I get home. And then I'm spinning a review copy of Revenge Of The Sith on it, so WHEE! Will report back tonight.

Oh of course. Never again. I mean, I'm assuming I shortened it by 20-30 hours or something. I just hope I didn't give it a half-life. LOL.

I don't think you killed your lamp life. That said, I wouldn't make a habit of doing that.

I got my CC30R filter in today, so I'll try it when I get home. And then I'm spinning a review copy of Revenge Of The Sith on it, so WHEE! Will report back tonight.


Sounds good .. Don´t forget to report back any "findings" ;)

So as soon as I got home, I gave the CC30R filter a shot, plugged in ROne's settings, tweaked with Avia and DVE to get the best contrast/brightness, visually checked gamma, then did the service menu color tweaks to verify accurate color decoding. In a word, WOW! This is the closest I've seen the Z3 look to my ISF'd RPTV, as far as grayscale goes. Putting up a grayscale sweep on both the RPTV and Z3, they look damn near identical. Nice job, ROne! I think this may be the definitive filter tweak.

Spun Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith (though I've stopped it temporarily while LOST is on), and it just looks plain freakin' gorgeous. I don't even think it looked this good when I saw it in the theater. Color me ecstatic!

Definitely recommend you should read the thread to understand what you are doing but to make it a bit easier for newcomers I made a single sheet printout with some of the main settings provided by Jeremy Anderson and ROne.

Please dont just d/l the pdf and not thank these chaps who developed and shared their settings - please try and contribute in some way even if its just to say thanks to them.

Thanks Jeremy and Rone :D

See attached.

Regards
sainthalo

Does anyone know where I can get an appropriately sized lid in AMERICA? I foolishly assumed it was part of the excellent kit Sainthalo mailed out to me, and whiled I'd pay for him to mail me one of the lids I'd rather look closer to home first.

92" Greywolf purchased, the Z3 is up next I think unless someone can really convince me to spend the extra $700 for a Z4... As a first time buyer I think I am gonna be thrilled with Z3 quality.

Sam

So as soon as I got home, I gave the CC30R filter a shot, plugged in ROne's settings, tweaked with Avia and DVE to get the best contrast/brightness, visually checked gamma, then did the service menu color tweaks to verify accurate color decoding. In a word, WOW! This is the closest I've seen the Z3 look to my ISF'd RPTV, as far as grayscale goes. Putting up a grayscale sweep on both the RPTV and Z3, they look damn near identical. Nice job, ROne! I think this may be the definitive filter tweak.

Spun Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith (though I've stopped it temporarily while LOST is on), and it just looks plain freakin' gorgeous. I don't even think it looked this good when I saw it in the theater. Color me ecstatic!

I'm glad they worked out for you, can you believe I only managed to watch one film with these settings before I sold the damn thing!

Got the Z4 to D65 (close anyway) last night. Much easier to get there than the Z3, creative cinema got me 1200:1 without filter.

However it's not that much better than ye olde Z3 with filters!

As SaintHalo says ... It's a a Z3.5!

Does anyone know where I can get an appropriately sized lid in AMERICA? I foolishly assumed it was part of the excellent kit Sainthalo mailed out to me, and whiled I'd pay for him to mail me one of the lids I'd rather look closer to home first.

92" Greywolf purchased, the Z3 is up next I think unless someone can really convince me to spend the extra $700 for a Z4... As a first time buyer I think I am gonna be thrilled with Z3 quality.

Sam

Hi Sam,

Its a serious trek for me to get to that supermarket otherwise i would send them out with the filters no problem.

Just tape it up - the filters have been cut to the perfect size for taping up on a z3 or should I say z3.5 :D

Enjoy :)

I'm glad they worked out for you, can you believe I only managed to watch one film with these settings before I sold the damn thing!

Got the Z4 to D65 (close anyway) last night. Much easier to get there than the Z3, creative cinema got me 1200:1 without filter.

However it's not that much better than ye olde Z3 with filters!

As SaintHalo says ... It's a a Z3.5!

one film! hope it was good? nevermind, whomever you sold the firstborn z3.5 to must be enjoying it.

It's still a rare beast out there in the US of A so heres a pic of the z3.5! :D

http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/8300/dscn14066ue2gn.th.jpg (http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn14066ue2gn.jpg)

Glad to see you're taming the Z4 :)

Ok guys I used DVE to setup my z3 and am very happy but I noticed in the color calibration that there are 3 color filters and the z3 can adjust all three colors independantly. Currently I have only fine tuned the blue color. I can really tell that the z3 is working well on screens that push blue. Should I go back and try to balance the red and green as well? Will this help since on heavy red and green screens the colors seem slightly off.

Okay, AGAIN we run into this misunderstanding. The RED, GREEN and BLUE controls in the user menu are NOT for color decoding. These controls are for WHITE BALANCE, i.e. grayscale. The RGB controls (as well as the Gain and Offset controls for each color) are there so you can adjust the three colors that make up white.

If you see a particular color that is excessive, you can still control this as well. The COLOR and TINT controls control the overall saturation and hue of the colors laid on top of the grayscale to form your picture. Normally, we use the color BLUE as a reference for this, so you set blue level with these controls. To adjust red and green in relation to blue, however, you have to go into the service menu and do the tweaks outlined previously in this thread. This is something you should use a color bars pattern and filters (such as come with DVE and Avia) to properly adjust, and is not something that you can reasonably eyeball.

So again, so we're clear... the BLUE control does NOT affect the level of blue in your picture. It just makes white more or less blue.

Definitely recommend you should read the thread to understand what you are doing but to make it a bit easier for newcomers I made a single sheet printout with some of the main settings provided by Jeremy Anderson and ROne.

Please dont just d/l the pdf and not thank these chaps who developed and shared their settings - please try and contribute in some way even if its just to say thanks to them.

Thanks Jeremy and Rone :D

See attached.

Regards
sainthalo
thanks I really appreciate this but.. all of those good settings are with filters.. I'm a noob in tweaking a projector's settings to maximise your quality, so.. you guys have no settings without filters? you only optimise your quality with filters?

The best settings are with filters Frank, because the filters correct inherent problems in LCD panels.

There is though one setting in the pdf which doesnt need filters - its ROnes natural setting without filters in the third column which is listed twice, once with CC10Y+CC20R and once without. Thats not the best setting though but it is better than most of the Sanyo presets.

You correct brightness and contrast yourself :)

HTH,
sainthalo

SaintHalo, can you post your pdf with ROnes settings again in this thread. I cannot log onto the UK site.
Also, where can I get a CC30R filter in Canada. I would be willing to buy one online but need a useful link. Just bought a Z3 and a 106 inch DaLite HCMW screen.

I can mail you the filters and a printout of the pdf - just send me an email to sainthalo@ gmail.com

Heres the pdf of instructions:

I'm still loving the results of the CC30R filter, but with one caveat. My filters in the past have been Kodak gel filters, and this time I opted for the Lee polyester filter. Now I'm getting a slight bit of internal reflection to my image. For instance, if a white title appears on a black background, the title is mirrored upside down beneath itself very dimly. I thought I could fix this by un-taping the filter and cutting it so it fits flat against the lens, but that didn't totally alleviate the problem. So I'm thinking maybe the Lee filters have a slight bit of reflectivity that my two Kodak filters didn't have. I may replace the Lee with a Kodak filter soon to find out.

I'm still loving the results of the CC30R filter, but with one caveat. My filters in the past have been Kodak gel filters, and this time I opted for the Lee polyester filter. Now I'm getting a slight bit of internal reflection to my image. For instance, if a white title appears on a black background, the title is mirrored upside down beneath itself very dimly. I thought I could fix this by un-taping the filter and cutting it so it fits flat against the lens, but that didn't totally alleviate the problem. So I'm thinking maybe the Lee filters have a slight bit of reflectivity that my two Kodak filters didn't have. I may replace the Lee with a Kodak filter soon to find out.

Hi Jeremy, This is the halo effect which i had myself to begin with. It vaires in intensity depending on the positon and can be eliminated by repositioning or mounting perfectly square to the lens. Once I had made my own filter mount this problem was completely gone. Has anyone found a food lid in the states which is the right size? Definitely give that a try first. Hope this info helps :)

Has anyone found a food lid in the states which is the right size? Definitely give that a try first. Hope this info helps :)

Amazing... With the hi-tech things we're playing around with these days we still need a food lid and such to make things work better... :p

After some tweaking with AVIA I am finding that I cannot rid myself of the yellow'ish tint on the left side of the screen unless I open up the IRIS. Currently it is at about 25 and I don't see it, but if I close it anymore then that it starts to come back.

Has anyone found a way to close the IRIS more and be free of the yellow tint? I have no filters in place and have a gray DIY screen.

Hi All,

I had the halo a while back, now it worried me.

I then discovered it was a fault with the DVD movie. i played the same movie on my CRT TV with a different dvd player and it was still there.

So now i just ignore it if it comes up.

I'm totally free from filters, i love it.

I really think you can talk yourself into believing it's better.

Take them off look at the picture then put them back on, it's that easy.

i had several people look at the results, they all agreeded the drop in contrast and increase in brightness is worth not having them.


GezzaZ3.

"I really think you can talk yourself into believing it's better. "

It isn't a matter of talking yourself into anything. It's a matter of ACCURACY to the defined standard of 6500k for display devices. Yes, you can get a bright vivid picture out of your Z3 without doing any of the tweaks, and you'll love it out of the box if you've never grown accustomed to a properly calibrated display. But part of home theater for a lot of us is the accurate reproduction of the picture that the filmmakers intended us to see. There is no other way to reproduce that in the home than doing all possible tweaks to get the projector's grayscale as close to 6500k across the board. While many of us were simply eyeballing it (me based on my RPTV, which is ISF calibrated to 6500k +/-100), ROne actually got the instrumentation to objectively test this, and the results are astonishing... at least to those of us who value the accuracy of the picture as much as the brightness. The color filter tweak also maximizes the available contrast of the Z3.

Is it a picture you have to get used to? ABSOLUTELY. Why? Because almost 100% of televisions and projectors are inaccurately set out of the box, so most consumers have grown accustomed to pumped up reds and an overly high color temperature grayscale. For example: Out of the box, the supposed WARM setting of my RPTV actually registered 12,000K on average, according the ISF tech (Gregg Loewen) who calibrated it. After calibration, it took me a few days to get used to the new picture... but ultimately, it's more detailed and is closer to what I see in the theater. And there's no comparison with fleshtones once you've properly adjusted your display device. The tweaks listed here will absolutely get you damn close to perfection with your Z3. The only problem is... you may not be used to seeing the way a display is actually SUPPOSED to look. It is not a subjective thing, hence the reason there is a standard that all Hollywood monitors are calibrated to.

But in the end, it's all about what's best for you! ENJOY!

One of the best posts in the thread - well said Jeremy - a great explanation for people wondering what the benefit and purpose and theory of filtering is.

Well said! :)

Hi All,

I really think you can talk yourself into believing it's better.

GezzaZ3.

Maybe you can, but I can't.

I KNOW when it's better and KNOW when it's worse, working with broadcast monitors all day for a living for the past 12 years as well as being on my 6th projector has given me a very critical eye. Perhaps too critical as my Z4 Tweak thread will attain.

The reason your Z3 is DIM when using some of the suggested settings on here is that LCDs are limited in capability of reproducing film, very limited.

So to that end something will give, if we want D65 we will limit contrast, if you want contrast you will limit D65.

I have made many suggestions to you such as opening your iris or darkening your room to make up for the DIMness of the Z3 in such scenarios.

You obviously value brightness over an accurate picture ...

Just one thing what is your source?

ROne,

Did the lens shift lock on the Z4 solved the problem on the Z3 where the image moves on its own overtime?

INHD should be showing their Tune-Up program early in the morning that has a color calibration pattern, so I'm going to use that to tweak the decoding on both my 720p and 1080i settings (by changing my HD-DVR box's output resolution so it scales).


I have comcast HD. When do they normally show this program?

HMHG

I´m absolutely love the new filters+settings .. I have just bought a xbox and i´m currently using a component av hd pack for best picture quality .. Í´m just wondering if I should use the same settings when it comes to playing games on the z3 or are there any other settings that would work better?

hi tompa39 - glad you are enjoying your filters and your new z3.5 :)

stick to your favourite settings for gameplay as well as movies - dont think it makes a difference but you could try and recalibrate brightness and colour for the new source. let us know.

Hi Guys,

To ROne, i have a LG dvd player using HDMI running on 1080I.

This is the part that confuses me, we all have variables.

Here is my list.

1. DVD Player
2. Screen
3. Room
4. Cables
5. Movies Pal or NTSC.
6. Distance from Screen
7. Projector bulb (As they ware, they dim)

Now i have followed this Forum for a long time now. I have purchased the Filters.

my settings are from this forum (Many Thanks)

How can you tweak your projector to suit all the variables.

I was rapped with the tweaks and the filters. but as you all know the Z3 is not super bright, so IMO it suffered in Brightness.

As soon as i removed the filters, the picture increase in clarity and brightness.

I have owned a Infocus(SP4800) which has a higher brightness, but the Z3 has a sharper image and better color reproduction (IMO).

To Jeremy.

Thanks for the reply, you know you are right.

But, i don't have to have a Number D65 to be happy, because of all the variables that can happen, which don't happen to CRT TV.

I find it hard to believe that D65 with a CRT TV would be the same as a Z3 D65. There would have to be some trade offs somewhere, I think the brightness is a major issue for me. As the bulbs dim with use, it will be an issue for all. As i believe you are starting with a lower brightness than mine , the filters knock out some of brightness and color, mainly blue from what i have seen

So i think as long as the Picture is WOW, i believe the picture i have is the best that my equipment can produce. Time to put down tweaks and start watching movies.

I have up to 6 to 8 people watching movies with me, they all say WOW what a beautiful picture, vivid colors.

GezzaZ3.

But, i don't have to have a Number D65 to be happy, because of all the variables that can happen, which don't happen to CRT TV.
You would be surprised at how tweakable modern CRT TV's are. My CRT RPTV's ISF calibration was FAR more complex than anything you're seeing here in this thread. And the good news is that LCD panels are far more consistent than CRT's, so the settings posted here will show less variation from unit to unit other than those affected by the viewing environment. Posting calibrated CRT settings, on the other hand, is almost completely useless because of how much variation there is between units.

I find it hard to believe that D65 with a CRT TV would be the same as a Z3 D65. There would have to be some trade offs somewhere, I think the brightness is a major issue for me. As the bulbs dim with use, it will be an issue for all. As i believe you are starting with a lower brightness than mine , the filters knock out some of brightness and color, mainly blue from what i have seen
CRT TV can be brighter, naturally... but if you dial your CRT down to reasonable calibrated viewing levels (especially important with CRT RPTV's to prevent burn-in) you would be surprised at how similar the two can appear. The obvious tradeoff is simply one inherent to LCD vs. CRT - contrast ratio. Regarding bulb dimming, I'm at 970+ hours with no noticeable dimming, though I'm sure it will rear its ugly head at some point... and if it does, I'll simply open the iris up to compensate.

Yes, the filters do decrease maximum light output, though they also lower black levels, which is a nice tradeoff. Considering I'm already reducing the light output using the iris, I simply open the iris up with the filter in place to get more brightness out of the Z3. As far as the filters knocking out color, you couldn't be more wrong. Yes, the initial result of the D65 calibration may seem like it reduces color levels... but that's why you use a calibration disc to adjust color/tint to get blue back to the proper level compared to white, then use the service menu tweaks to get red and green to the proper saturation/hue. Or if you're using a digital connection, you simply adjust color/tint (which should line blue up nicely).

But as I said, if you're happy with the out-of-the-box settings, rock on! No one who has seen the A/B comparison of mine filtered and unfiltered in powerful mode would ever consider suggesting I go back. Contrary to what you are saying, I get FAR richer colors with the filter in place, and fleshtones are spot-on perfect. I also get more noticeable detail with my XBox games, because the lower IRE levels are where they need to be as far as brightness. That's a big issue for gaming, even on my CRT RPTV.

I have comcast HD. When do they normally show this program?

HMHG
INHD shows the Tune-Up program every week at like 6:00 Saturday morning if I recall correctly. Just scroll ahead to early Saturday morning and you should see it. The INHD color pattern is a little harder to use as far as the service menu tweaks go, but it at least gives you a reference for hi-def material. I got some VERY nice results using that pattern, especially noticeable with the green grass on HD football games. It's a stunning improvement if you're using component video.

..Sorry,wrong button...I was searching for PM...

INHD shows the Tune-Up program every week at like 6:00 Saturday morning if I recall correctly. Just scroll ahead to early Saturday morning and you should see it. The INHD color pattern is a little harder to use as far as the service menu tweaks go, but it at least gives you a reference for hi-def material. I got some VERY nice results using that pattern, especially noticeable with the green grass on HD football games. It's a stunning improvement if you're using component video.

Seriously?!?!! I've got INHD and INHD2 and not once did I see this program (I don't watch TV that early though LOL).

That sounds great. Now why can't a program like that be on On Demands' HD programming.

Great work guys... though my head really aches from reading through all this and trying to figure out what it means before I even buy a Z3. The reason I'm reading ahead is that I'm going to set up my screen (wall actually) for the unit before it gets here. I was planning on using the SM/MM method for my wall but it includes a little red tint to the paint to offset the blueish hue that LCD projectors typically have. Since I plan on using the filter method (jeremy, those screenshots in your gallery is what sold me on bothering with a filter... I think that was yours anyway... head hurts) on the Z3, do you think I should leave out the red paint from the Missmud mix? It seems to me that this would be redundent and have th effect of pushing more red.

Let's try this again.

Has anyone found a way, using a filter or some-such, to drop IRIS past 25 and still be rid of the yellow'ish tint on the left side of the screen. Above 25 I don't see it but if I go lower it's rears it's ugly head.

Well, here's a suggestion: Since the iris basically reduces light output, you could open the iris up and then compensate with a neutral density filter over the lens. This would reduce light output the same way the iris does, but without the spectral shift at the edges because you're reducing output AFTER the light path. However, you'd have to experiment to see which intensity ND filter you would need. Since the iris doesn't make a radical change in light output, I would suspect that a filter somewhere in the .1 to .2 range would do the trick. A .1 ND filter requires about the same exposure increase (1/3 F-stop) as a CC20R filter, while a .2 ND filter requires about the same increase (2/3 F-stop) as a CC30R filter... so I would probably try the .1 first, then .2 if that doesn't work.

tigepilot, you might have more luck with that question in the DIY Screens forum. I have no experience with that. Anyone else have a suggestion for him?

(And BTW: Those screens in my gallery are from VERY early tweaking. They're not even close to the performance I'm getting out of the Z3 now. I need to take some new shots soon.)

Yeah, I kinda thought you might say that and I kinda expect the same answer from the thread regarding the screen as well. I think I've made up my mind to leave the red particle out though since it does say it's optional in the instructions.

I wondered whether those pictures were recent or not. They were enough to convince me that the Z3 would be a hell of a lot more fun than my 27" TV I have now. We were going to wait until after Christmas to buy something like a 34" widescreen CRT for our livingroom to take us to the HD realm but one day we walked past a projector (not a Z3) at Sam's and my wife and I started seeing the light.

We just bought this house and the garage has been convereted to an extra bedroom that we really don't need (at least as a bedroom). It has no windows. We've been using it as a playroom for the kids but there's no reason it can't double as a theater at night.

Well, you can bet I'll be updating with some Xbox 360 screenshots in a few weeks. I might take some quick snaps of Revenge Of The Sith this weekend though.

Thanks Jeremy, I'll swing by my local photo-shop and pick up a .1 ND. I actually bought one of those back when I first had my IF X1 to try and help with rainbows, it didn't work so I returned it.

guys need some help. I cant decide between the Z3 and Z4. The Z3 can be had for an incredible price now. Im not sure the Z4 is worth it. I posted a thread here so perhaps some of you can comment. The thing is that I watch a lot of dark shows like Lost, Supernatural, and movies like LOR, and Underworld, and I have read that the Z3 looks hazy with dark scenes like this. I didnt have time right now to read this whole thread but can this be fixed with these tweaks? And if not is this fixed in the Z4? Basically what do u guys think? I want to be sitting at 13' and prjoecting at 13' as well onto a 92" screen.

I was thinking about the sharpnes setting for my xbox .. Should this be lowered as much as for movies or should it be set abit higher to get abit more kind of digital sharpness? .. How have you guys set it?

hi maxse, i would say get the z3, but is there any way to see it in action? where are you thinking of buying it from and whats the difference in cost to the z4. regards

maxse, it's hard to say until to see it side by side. Cost & features/improvement equation is different for each person. Maybe the z4 thread will have z3 upgraders that can give more insight. Try PMing ROne because he has experiences with both units. Good luck...

I was thinking about the sharpnes setting for my xbox .. Should this be lowered as much as for movies or should it be set abit higher to get abit more kind of digital sharpness? .. How have you guys set it?

xbox is my only component connection and i was using cc30r with rones settings adjusted for br and cr.

i found lots of extra settings for component such as transient improvement and contrast enhancement. i liked some of these but it wasnt a big difference. i think these are worth trying out.

as for sharpness i have mine on -2 and the focus set perfectly. again i didnt really wish to change this but did try a few tweaks which didnt seem to make much difference.

this was on burnout revenge, the only game i have played in the last four months!

Well the only place I know thatts reputable is visual apex. And the price difference is $600. I live in Long Island,NY any1 know any dealers here where I can see how it will loke. And Ill pm ROne right now. Thanks.

Jeremy:

I am trying to locate AVIA so that I can try your service menu tweaks. I only have DVE right now, which only has the blue filter.

I understand that the settings are different depending on the input resolution, but do you think that the source connection also has an effect?

What I mean is, if you adjusted the setting from a Component 480p signal would those same settings still be good for an HDMI 480p source? You say that only people using component inputs need to do the adjustment, but shouldn't it be anyone using a 480p resolution, regardless of input method?

Also, is there a setting in the service menu to make the lamp dimmer? With total light control, eco lamp mode and a 92" 1.1 gray screen I still think that there is lots of light. I would like to drop the light output a bit more, but keep the iris in the ~-40 range to avoid color uniformity issues. I could use a 0.1 or 0.2 ND filter, but a service menu adjustment is cheaper and easier.

While I am in there I plan on changing the fan cooling time (Group 102:80) to 90sec or longer instead of the default 60sec, since when I turn the pj off I don't really care how long the fan runs.

Thanks

Your DVE only came with a blue filter? Mine came with a card with all three colors. Wierd.

HDMI doesn't need the color decoder correction, because the color information is digitally correct. There should be no red push on HDMI, regardless of resolution.

I can't speak to any other service menu adjustments, as I don't plan on mucking about in there anymore than I have already.

HDMI doesn't need the color decoder correction, because the color information is digitally correct. There should be no red push on HDMI, regardless of resolution.


Must be why I found my favorite settings where the ones straight out of the box. I tried Rone's settings for HDMI, no filters, and I think yours Jeremy, for no filters, and I even tried a 4th setting which was me calibrating to DVE.

In the end, I have to say thanks Sanyo! :)

Finalheaven, the color decoding on HDMI is correct... but that doesn't mean the grayscale is anywhere close (and I assure you it isn't). And if you're laying color data on top of an incorrect grayscale, you aren't seeing the picture the filmmakers intended you to. Whether that's important to you is completely up to you. Sure, you may be getting a subjectively "better" picture because of what you're accustomed to seeing... but without a filter and careful calibration, you aren't getting an ACCURATE picture.

That's why we get this misconception about the red, green and blue controls in the user menu. People think they're for adjusting color, when they're actually for adjusting the balance of colors that make up white. One of the benefits of HDMI is that color decoding information is digital in nature for that type of connection and will usually be perfect, whereas component, S-video, etc. rely on the color decoder in the projector to reconstruct the colors using analog information (which is why we have to adjust the ratio of green and red to match blue). But the white balance (grayscale) is dependant on the projector regardless of the connection type.

So how do the color decoder and grayscale interact? Let's say your white balance is improperly set, giving whites in the midranges (say 30-60 IRE for example) an excess of red in the gray. When you lay color on top of that gray, the excessive red will skew the color of all the other colors on the screen that are laid on top of that gray. This is especially noticeable in facial shadows. Out of the box, shadows on faces are usually tinted red, either because the white balance is excessively red or because the color decoder has the ratio of red to blue set too high toward red (which is very common).

Now where this becomes very important is in shadow detail. Let's say a movie has a scene where important details are shown on about a 20IRE gray patch with blue overlaid on top with the color decoder. If your grayscale is off at 20IRE in a way that doesn't allow the blue color overlaid on top of it to show as it should (i.e. an excess of red in the gray makes the blue appear purple), you very likely will not see that information at all, or it will appear the wrong color. And you'll likely never know it's wrong... You'll just mistakenly think it's supposed to look that way.

The only way to ensure that you are seeing all the shadow details and seeing exactly what the filmmaker intended you to see is to have a calibrated grayscale to go along with calibrated color decoding. It's that simple. And once someone shows you the difference between a filter-calibrated picture and an out-of-the-box picture, most people won't notice the decreased brightness because the detail of the rest of the grayscale will give you a far richer looking picture.

Earlier in the thread, I mentioned that my RPTV's grayscale was originally around 12,000k out of the box. Because of this, it looked bright enough to blind you, which I had always thought was preferable. Even after I had it calibrated to 6,500k, I was a little upset because it didn't seem as bright. But as I spent more time with it, I noticed that I could see more of the little details in the picture. With the Z3 and ROne's final CC30R settings (and the color decoder tweaks for us component video folks), I've noticed a vastly improved picture with dark scenes, which tended to crush blacks with the out-of-the-box settings, even after a calibration with DVE/Avia.

But as I've said repeatedly here in this thread and in other places, if you're happy with the way your picture looks, that's what is subjectively important and you can remain blissfully unaware. It just won't be objectively "correct" to the prescribed standards for video reproduction, which is the aim of this entire tweaks thread.

Happy viewing!

has anyone upgraded from the panny L300U to the z3? or has anyone seen both of these in action? what are your thoughts....i was considering selling my L300U and going with the z3 since the prices are so reasonable now.

should i do it? is there really that much of a difference?

Jeremy & company,
Is there a straight forward "guide" to calibrating the Z3 and using ROne's CC30R settings & the filter? I have been poking around the Z3 threads and am on information overload. Maybe it isn't that easy to have a Z3 calibration guide?
I am looking not so much for another thread, but rather for a straight forward guide. Usually the threads become full with other comments that it quickly turns into a hunt for the right posts...
Thanks!

Jeremy & company,
Is there a straight forward "guide" to calibrating the Z3 and using ROne's CC30R settings & the filter? I have been poking around the Z3 threads and am on information overload. Maybe it isn't that easy to have a Z3 calibration guide?
I am looking not so much for another thread, but rather for a straight forward guide. Usually the threads become full with other comments that it quickly turns into a hunt for the right posts...
Thanks!

This was asked a few pages ago and I made a simple one page guide to help newcomers to the thread.

Just send me an email and i will send you the guide by email for you to printout.

My email address is sainthaloATgmail.com (AT=@ or click the link in my signature).

HTH :)
sainthalo

Wow, you are a saint! :-) Thank you. PM coming.

Guys - remember how the Z3 had the red push problem on component but not on HDMI.

Well the Z4 has red push across the board, all presets on all inputs. Actually it's a red+green push and lack of blue for the mix!

I've been hitting D65 no problem but it still didn't look right so I did some colour decoder checks and this turns out to be the problem, so I was racking my brain how to solve this.

There is a solution on the Z4 that is available from the menu that allows you to correct the color level, phase and gamma of the primaries and reduce the red+green mix.

Just thought I'd let you know because I know Jeremy had fix with this on the 3.

Ok I've read quite a bit a stuff In the post but I still have a couple questions.
I'm using currently using a ND2 and a Skylight 1b (It doesn't do much, mostly just a lense protector). The are 62mm filters, but all I can find is square CC30R filters or 52mm. Well I found one 62mm from B&H but it was over a hundred dollars. Now I can get a step down ring (I might evan have one laying around) . I'm just worried it will affect the light path since the Z3 seems to have a 62mm lense.

I'm also wondering if anyone is using a ND2 with the CC30R. The ND2 helped quite a bit. How does this work with the CC30R.

All a neutral density (ND2) filter will do for you is reduce overall light output. It shouldn't reduce one color or the other unless the spectrum of the filter is skewed, and though some people use them to get a better black level they reduce white level by the same amount. In other words, the ND2 filter isn't necessary unless you just don't want to use the iris (as some people here were considering due to the discoloration caused by extreme closing of the iris).

The CC30R reduces overall output by about 2/3 F-stop as it is, so you can open the iris up a bit more with a CC30R in place, but this filter is primarily used to help get the grayscale of the unit's grayscale closer to D65. If you put a CC30R filter in place and still feel the picture is too bright, you could use the ND2 filter with it and open the iris up more to compensate. I honestly don't think you will need the ND2 filter once you get the CC30R filter in place and tweak a bit with ROne's settings. Using the CC30R filter lets you use the Z3's POWERFUL mode and still get good grayscale, and should be the best combination of contrast ratio and color accuracy that you can eke out of the Z3.

BTW: These CC30R filters are very thin pieces of polyester (in the case of the Lee filter) or gel (in the case of Kodak), so you can just cut them to fit with a pair of scissors. A lot of people here are just taping them to the top and bottom of the case itself, with the filter centered in the light path. I carefully cut mine so that it just pushes into the lens and is held in by the grooves around the inner edge.

Ok I've read quite a bit a stuff In the post but I still have a couple questions.
I'm using currently using a ND2 and a Skylight 1b (It doesn't do much, mostly just a lense protector). The are 62mm filters, but all I can find is square CC30R filters or 52mm. Well I found one 62mm from B&H but it was over a hundred dollars. Now I can get a step down ring (I might evan have one laying around) . I'm just worried it will affect the light path since the Z3 seems to have a 62mm lense.

I'm also wondering if anyone is using a ND2 with the CC30R. The ND2 helped quite a bit. How does this work with the CC30R.

Hi, interesting idea but as Jeremy has said you're better off using the filters mentioned in this thread as then you can use the specific settings as well and just adjust for birghtness and contrast. The price of over a hundred dollars is way too much, you dont need to spend that much, just go to a local independent amateur photo store and they should be around $25 a filter or even cheaper (or email me if you cant find some).

ROne and Jeremy have made the best possible settings for the z3 - for people wondering about this, dont. Its a no-brainer!!!! :D :cool:

I found the best ones to use are Lee filters simply because they are easy to mount by taping or trimming to fit the lens ring. Or mounting as i did (see link below - click free download). If you have any trouble finding the filters at a decent price send me an email and i will send you some exactly the right size to tape to the z3 with instructions (you could also cut to fit the lens ring if you wish like Jeremy has done).

Repeat of whats already in thread but email for a guide - sainthaloATgmail.com (AT=@) - not PM as cant attach the file. Also made some slideshow demonstrations to show what is achieved:
z3.5 setup: http://rapidshare.de/files/5598772/sho_off.zip.html
filter mount: http://rapidshare.de/files/5598199/sho_filters.zip.html
Just click on free download to download the demonstrations :)

Had a few emails already and happy to help anyone who wants to z3.5 ^__^

I'm taken the time to read through some of this thread (233 pages in word). I've noticed all these color tweaks seem to deal with the component video and not HDMI. It doesn't take a videophile to notice the Z3 has very poor reds. HDMI is really bad, they seem to be more orenge then red. If I adjust they become brown. So I'm just wondering if the CC30R fixes the color issues with HDMI as well. I'm also wondering If the Z4 has some of the same issues. I only have a few more days until I can return the Z3 and I can't live with the reds being this far off. I'm really suprised people haven't complained more in the main forum about this.

I'm really hoping these filters give me true reds not redish orenges. You really notice on american flags, no more Red, White and Blue rather Orenge, White, and Blue. I tried to calibrate both with DVE (DVD player with HDMI), and the HDnet stuff of my HD VCR.

Now I'm not saying the color was perfect on the X1, but at least I was able to find an exceptible balance. Of course the other colors on the Z3 are accurate.

There is nothing wrong with the saturation of reds on the Z3 using HDMI.

There is however a lot wrong with its out of the box colour balance/grey scale which is improved with filters and settings. This may effect what what you perceive to be bad saturation of reds, though you are effecting colour balance and not directly saturation.

Note: The filters do not directly effect saturation. If you are not happy with saturation over HDMI then there is not a lot you can do save mess with the service menu.

To what degree have you calibrated your Z3 pre-filters? What presets?

By the way DVE alone will not allow you to calibrate colour balance - chances are your colour balance is way off and this gives you your problem.


The Z4 does however have problem with colour saturation over HDMI and this is easily fixed in the colour management menu.

Beezlebub, try ROnes settings for the Z3 - you will see a massive improvement.

Jeff,
I feel exactly as you. I would like to test my projector side by side with another to see if this problem is "just the way it is" or if there is something wrong with my particular projector. The fact that you describe the exact same thing, makes me less inclined to think it is something wrong with the projector. I notice this softness most on superimposed graphics, like the score of a ball game posted at the bottom of the picture. I was watching a basketball game in HD and it looked pretty good, but the score graphic looked soft and out of focus.

The cables might be the issue and I am going to get some new cables to do some testing. I am using inexpensive, 3 foot long, component cables to connect my HD cable box and my DVD player to the projector. The Tivo goes via S-video cable. But the Tivo PQ has always been soft compared to the cable box or DVD.

I was using a VGA breakout cable with a VGA to DVI adapter to connect the DVD player to the Z2. This was resulting in a pretty sharp picture, but for some reason the VGA input on the Z3 does not recognize the output from my DVD player the way the DVI input of the Z2 would.

I plan to get an up-converting DVD player that I will connect to the projector with HDMI, but I am waiting for the Panasonic S77 to be released in April.

Tom

I just got my projector and am having the same situation. Did anyone ever reply about a fix to this. For example: HD-Discover channel looks great. Football game - anytime the camera is zoomed out the players are very pixelized / fuzzy. DVD - Attack of the Clones - closeups are awesome - scenes shot at a distance are blurry. Sony Progressive scan DVD. New HDTV cable receiver. Any suggestions? Using component.

It doesn't take a videophile to notice the Z3 has very poor reds. HDMI is really bad, they seem to be more orenge then red. If I adjust they become brown.
If you adjust WHAT? There is no way to adjust the color red with HDMI. That setting in the user menu that says RED... that's for WHITE BALANCE (i.e. how much red is in white), not color. And since HDMI should have digitally correct color decoding (i.e. the level of each color is transmitted as a digital value instead of being reconstructed from analog by the color decoder), there is no way to adjust the red saturation or hue in the service menu. Those tweaks are for analog connections only (component, S-video, composite, etc.). About the only solution you would have would be to reduce COLOR, though usually digital connections disable the color and tint controls (again, because the colors are digital values and not being reconstructed in the analog domain).

You might also consider that your source may be the problem in this case, not the Z3. Just a thought.

Football game - anytime the camera is zoomed out the players are very pixelized / fuzzy.

I remember watching football and whenever a player runs I see pixelization around him. Isn't this macroblocking and is this a source problem or the pj problem. I do not think I am getting it now because I have a different hdtuner. I got to see MNF tonight to double check.

JD239,

I have same issue. The close-ups are superb. However, distant shots are little blurry. Someone suggested to adjust the focus with text displayed on the screen not with the movie playing, I am going to try that tonight. Let me know if you figure out solution to the problem.

Thanks,

PJ

Just wondering If anyone has tried a Red Color Intensifier filter. Something like this
http://www.adorama.com/HY62I.html

Someone suggested to adjust the focus with text displayed on the screen not with the movie playing
This is how I have always adjusted my focus. It seems to give the best balance. Up close shots still look stunning and distant shots look good. I dial it in so I do not see SDE at 1:1.

So, I've finally managed to motivate myself to take a screenshot. It was actually Finding Nemo that caused me to do it. In some of the ocean scenes, the fish have a faint halo around them, especially Marlin. This caused me some concern.

Here's a screenshot from a normal scene. I've tried using DVE to calibrate, but I've since stuck with the factory settings, I've only dialed down the sharpness to 0, and brought the Brightness on my Oppo to -3. Otherwise, everything's default. And It looks pretty good to me.

Beelzebub, I haven't seen that filter before, but it's interesting. One has to wonder how consistent the spectrum of that filter is though. Were ROne still tweaking the Z3, I'm sure he might find that interesting. Still, since ROne has been able to reach D65 with the CC30R filter, I think that's as good as it gets.

Finalheaven, I hate to say this... but many of the halos in Finding Nemo are there on the disc itself. In the underwater scenes, there's an intentional halo around the fish, which gets thicker and more diffuse depending on the level of light cast on them. I think that's just a creative choice by the filmmakers. Also keep in mind that you're scaling DVD resolution to 720p, which can make slight edging/halos worse than on the source, depending on the quality of the scaler. Unfortunately, a lot of it just comes down to the fact that you're scaling up a DVD to a big screen.

However, since you're running sharpness at 0, you might be exacerbating any existing edge enhancement. DVE is near worthless for adjusting sharpness, because it's too difficult to see any actual differences as you adjust. AVIA, on the other hand, has patterns which make it readily apparent which frequencies are being enhanced by the sharpness control. I run my sharpness at -4, because that's where the Avia pattern shows no white outlines around the thicker lines and no graying of the thinner lines. Considering that sharpness is usually zeroed to the same standard on all the Z3s, your unit should be similar. Try dialing it back to -3 or -4, and make sure TRANSIENT IMPROVEMENT is off (because that setting will show some slight edge enhancement).

Unrelated to the above, I recommend that you set any controls (Brightness, etc.) on the DVD player itself to their factory defaults. The goal is to let the source pass as unadulterated and pure a signal as possible. The only reason I would use the brightness control on the DVD player itself would be if the player has a known problem with white level clipping from the factory.

To the person who noted the softness of distant shots in Attack Of The Clones: That's part and parcel of the MPEG compression on the disc. As beautiful as that direct-from-digital transfer is, the variable bitrate compression does have its drawbacks, which is what you're seeing with that particular disc. Distant shots with larger patches of similar colors are compressed more by the encoder, resulting in a softer and less detailed image. Not much you can do about that. As to HD football games: Again, we enter into a possible artifact of scaling. Most HD football is broadcast in 1080i, which is being scaled to 720p by either the projector itself or your HD box (depending on how you have the output set). Because of this, you'll lose detail on smaller stuff, but close-up shots won't seem as bad because the scaler is given more to work with. Now, it could also be macroblocking as enier said, which would result in pixelation following a moving object. Again, this falls back to being a compression or signal issue from the source, not necessarily an issue with the projector.

As George Carlin says, "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"

Yeah thats true, I might still try it. I found some of my Dad's old filters (He was a photographer) and I found a Hoya Promaster Spectrum filter. I'm not positive but I think its some kind of adjustable UV filter, however when you put it front of the projector it allows you adjust the color spectrum. The problem is its a heavy filter so I need to find a better way to attach it. Though I was able to get some nice skintones and it seemed to impoove the contrast and black levels. I messed up when order the CC30R filter from B&H they have to special order so it will probably take a few weeks.

does anyone know where i can find a 1db attenuator? i live in TN. is this thing available at Radioshack? if not, can someone please point me to an online retailer?

thanks :)

does anyone know where i can find a 1db attenuator? i live in TN. is this thing available at Radioshack? if not, can someone please point me to an online retailer?

thanks :)

partsexpress.com

As reported in dvd player forums to get correct video levels with oppo (analyzed with some equipment) using current firmware setting is -3 brightness and everything else default in player.

Well party on then!

One simple question from a newbie;

Shall I set my Z3 with the settings that Jeremy recommends in post 213, now that I don't have any filters?

One simple question from a newbie;

Shall I set my Z3 with the settings that Jeremy recommends in post 213, now that I don't have any filters?
I Did:D....do you have filters ordered?

One simple question from a newbie;

Shall I set my Z3 with the settings that Jeremy recommends in post 213, now that I don't have any filters?


Personally the best filterless settings I have found seem to be a bit of a secret although ROne has shared them. They do lack a contrast punch for which you need to get filters but they are D65 so the colouring is spot on. Fine tune brightness and contrast yourself:

Rone Natural 6500 +/- 150
Start with Natural preset - turn down lamp, adjust sharpness and set IRIS. I have settled on -52 for Iris, as without the filters you need help to get rid of panel leakage.
C: +6
B: -1
R: +9
G: -2
B: -4
Iris: -52
Gain R: +15
Gain G: +3
Gain: B: -9
Offset R: -15
Offset G: +2
Offset B: 0
Gammas: all 0
Overscan: 0

If you need some filters cheaply at cost/postage email or pm me.

[ Personally the best filterless settings I have found seem to be a bit of a secret although ROne has shared them. They do lack a contrast punch for which you need to get filters but they are D65 so the colouring is spot on. Fine tune brightness and contrast yourself:

Rone Natural 6500 +/- 150
Start with Natural preset - turn down lamp, adjust sharpness and set IRIS. I have settled on -52 for Iris, as without the filters you need help to get rid of panel leakage.
C: +6
B: -1
R: +9
G: -2
B: -4
Iris: -52
Gain R: +15
Gain G: +3
Gain: B: -9
Offset R: -15
Offset G: +2
Offset B: 0
Gammas: all 0
Overscan: 0

If you need some filters cheaply at cost/postage email or pm me.

As a lurker here for some time I am embarassed to ask but hre goes. Is the first "C" and "B" listed in the list of tweaks mean Contrast and Brightness?? Or something else.
Split your gut if you need to!
I've plugged in all ROne's tweaks with the CC30R filters but there's always that nagging question about the first two inputs.
CHEERS

;)

As a lurker here for some time I am embarassed to ask but hre goes. Is the first "C" and "B" listed in the list of tweaks mean Contrast and Brightness?? Or something else.
Split your gut if you need to!
I've plugged in all ROne's tweaks with the CC30R filters but there's always that nagging question about the first two inputs.
CHEERS

;)

Yes and yes :D

There is one thing I don't get. If I want my Z3 to show the film in OAR on my screen, I need to set the overscan to 10. Set like that the screen is perfectly filled when I play a movie with OAR 1.77:1.

How important for the quality of the picture is the overscan really? I don't want to change my setting. :)

Personally the best filterless settings I have found seem to be a bit of a secret although ROne has shared them. They do lack a contrast punch for which you need to get filters but they are D65 so the colouring is spot on. Fine tune brightness and contrast yourself:

Rone Natural 6500 +/- 150
Start with Natural preset - turn down lamp, adjust sharpness and set IRIS. I have settled on -52 for Iris, as without the filters you need help to get rid of panel leakage.
C: +6
B: -1
R: +9
G: -2
B: -4
Iris: -52
Gain R: +15
Gain G: +3
Gain: B: -9
Offset R: -15
Offset G: +2
Offset B: 0
Gammas: all 0
Overscan: 0

If you need some filters cheaply at cost/postage email or pm me.

I'm trying these out now, and I have to say. They are looking fantastic. I'll be adding a bit of brightness I think to give the screen a little more, well, brightness. lol.

I'm trying these out now, and I have to say. They are looking fantastic. I'll be adding a bit of brightness I think to give the screen a little more, well, brightness. lol.

Yep thats the right approach, adjust br and cr yourself to suit yourself. Glad re-posting and highlighting the filterless settings was useful. Try some filters and you will be further impressed.

Hope everyones enjoying their Z3's? I am ;)

Anyone using a xbox 360 on theirs yet? screenshots would be awesome!

I'm running a 360 on mine... but screenshots would be difficult in anything but Madden's replay mode... or maybe PGR3's photo mode. It's hard to get a shot of anything in motion.

Or maybe my digital camera just sucks. Yeah, that's probably it.

But for the record, the 360 is AWESOME on a 92" screen!

I'm running a 360 on mine... but screenshots would be difficult in anything but Madden's replay mode... or maybe PGR3's photo mode. It's hard to get a shot of anything in motion.

Or maybe my digital camera just sucks. Yeah, that's probably it.

But for the record, the 360 is AWESOME on a 92" screen!

Jeremy I have a hidef connected original xbox - how much of a difference is it on say burnout revenge or 720p soul caliber? or in terms of the difference between your experience of the xbox and 360? they have just launched over here but very hard to get hold of. this is running it on the z3 of course (so we can stay on topic!!!)

Oh, moving from the original Xbox to the 360 is a MAJOR step up in 720p. I actually sold my original Xbox (after beating my last race in Burnout Revenge) a week before I got the 360... and the Z3 absolutely makes the 360 worth every penny. In fact, after seeing the screenshots of Burnout Revenge for the 360, I might have to buy the 360 version when it comes out.

The Xbox did some cheating to display the few games that were in 720p (like Soul Calibur and Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction). In SC, they had to letterbox the sides... and they were still using the same low-res textures as the 480p version, so there wasn't a massive improvement. IH:UD was widescreen in 720p, but the textures were still the same... so you honestly couldn't tell much of a difference. With the 360, the textures are made for hi-def resolutions... and also get bump-mapping, anti-aliasing, etc. In other words, the 360 on the Z3 really makes use of that 720p resolution, and you won't see any jagged lines like there were on the Xbox.

I'll try to snag some screenshots this weekend.

Oh, moving from the original Xbox to the 360 is a MAJOR step up in 720p. I actually sold my original Xbox (after beating my last race in Burnout Revenge) a week before I got the 360... and the Z3 absolutely makes the 360 worth every penny. In fact, after seeing the screenshots of Burnout Revenge for the 360, I might have to buy the 360 version when it comes out.

The Xbox did some cheating to display the few games that were in 720p (like Soul Calibur and Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction). In SC, they had to letterbox the sides... and they were still using the same low-res textures as the 480p version, so there wasn't a massive improvement. IH:UD was widescreen in 720p, but the textures were still the same... so you honestly couldn't tell much of a difference. With the 360, the textures are made for hi-def resolutions... and also get bump-mapping, anti-aliasing, etc. In other words, the 360 on the Z3 really makes use of that 720p resolution, and you won't see any jagged lines like there were on the Xbox.

I'll try to snag some screenshots this weekend.

Jeremy, I don't think I'm the only one when I say: We're WAITING! For those screenies. :D

Hi Guys,

Recently had the "tweakit" fever again.. A while back I was using Kodak gel filters and didn't like the results. Decided to give it another go and my filters were pretty dusty/fingerprints. So I washed 'em - BAD idea! I thought they were going to melt before my eyes. They dried out ok but now they are horrible deformed. Just a warning to anyone with these types of filters considering cleaning them =p

Anyways, I ordered some Lee filters and hopefully they'll be here today. I always had a problem with my Kodak ones warping anyways, messing up my focus, so hopefully these won't do that.

After going to the theatre I had this idea to make "curtains" for the top and bottom for 2.35:1 movies. So I bought some black sheets and velcro, cut it to size and attatched it to my screen and WOW! Movies in that aspect ratio looked a lot better. No more black blending in with the top/bottom "black" bars - this always bothered me for some reason. It made the image much more defined. Also, to me, it made the blueness in the blacks look less noticeble, not sure why, maybe I'm just nuts.

Can't wait to give the Lee filters a go.

Hi there,

i was tweaking my Z3, also using some service menu tweaks. Now i've heared, that i've lost the warranty, cause Sanyo can see, if anyone entered the service menu! is there any chance to reset this?

Hey guys,
got myself a Lee Filter CC30R and I'm using Rone's spider settings but after maybe a week colors looked bad again, and guess what, the damn filter just burned. It gots heavily discolorated where the picture pass through. (and I'm using the lamp in eco mode)
Do you guys know any better filter? I was thinking of buying a glass filter but those are insanely expensive :eek:

Hi there,

i was tweaking my Z3, also using some service menu tweaks. Now i've heared, that i've lost the warranty, cause Sanyo can see, if anyone entered the service menu! is there any chance to reset this?

There was a counter on the Z2's service menu, but I don't know that the Z3 has one. I recently had an issue with my Z3 and I straight-up told Sanyo what I had done in the service menu and why, and they didn't say anything about the warranty being voided. They went out of their way to help me out, in fact. That said, I wouldn't go mucking about in the service menu at random, because there are quite a few ways to completely hose your projector in there. If you do something silly like reset the panel alignment to zero or mess with any voltage levels, that might be an issue with Sanyo that they wouldn't want to cover under warranty. If you're just talking about the tweaks listed here for the color decoding, I wouldn't stress over it.

And I know people are still waiting for some 360 screens... but I've been too busy playing the thing! I'll do my best to get some shots this weekend though, I promise!

I have two problems with my Z3...

The biggest problem is that the picture is red on the right side and green
on the left side, I've noticed that others have the same problem. Is there
any solution to this?

My DVD is a Samsung HD850 connected to the Z3 with HDMI, I use the
resolution 720p. The problem is that I can's adjust the color level, only
R,G and B separately. The option isn't even greyed out, its just not there
anymore. It worked fine with my old DVD player witch was connected with
component. I have tried all these settings om my HD850:
-RGB-Normal: HDMI/DVI Limited Range RGB data output
-RGB-Expand: HDMI/DVI Full range RGB data output
-YCbCr-(4:4:4): HDMI Limited range output
-YCbCr-(4:2:2:) HDMI Limited range output

Nothing works. Any ideas? Please help...

I have two problems with my Z3...

The biggest problem is that the picture is red on the right side and green
on the left side, I've noticed that others have the same problem. Is there
any solution to this?

My DVD is a Samsung HD850 connected to the Z3 with HDMI, I use the
resolution 720p. The problem is that I can's adjust the color level, only
R,G and B separately. The option isn't even greyed out, its just not there
anymore. It worked fine with my old DVD player witch was connected with
component. I have tried all these settings om my HD850:
-RGB-Normal: HDMI/DVI Limited Range RGB data output
-RGB-Expand: HDMI/DVI Full range RGB data output
-YCbCr-(4:4:4): HDMI Limited range output
-YCbCr-(4:2:2:) HDMI Limited range output

Nothing works. Any ideas? Please help...

Try a different hdmi cable or use the component cable. In my case the colors are uniform across the board except that it's a bit pinkish using compnent cable. This was fixed using a line attenuator on the red cable. Call you dealer if nothing changes.

The COLOR control is grayed out with HDMI because you don't need it. HDMI is a digital connection, and the amount of color is sent as a digital value. The reason you have a COLOR control with component (or any other analog method) is because it has to reconstruct the level of color from the analog signal.

A few things: The R, G and B controls are NOT to change color. Those are to change the color balance of white (which is how you adjust grayscale). With analog signals where you can actively change the color settings, you use COLOR and TINT in the user menu to adjust blue saturation and hue, then use the service menu tweaks listed earlier in the thread to line up green and red. Again, this is NOT necessary with HDMI because color data is not being reconstructed from an analog signal. That's one of the advantages of HDMI - there is no digital to analog to digital conversion going on.

The chromatic aberrations you're describing (i.e. color tint on either side) are caused by closing the iris an excessive amount. It's an unfortunate problem with the Z3, and is simply due to the way the light path is built in the projector. Try opening the iris up a bit and see if it doesn't get better.

This is another advantage of using a CC30R filter on the Z3 - it reduces overall light output enough that you can open the iris up more, thus reducing the chromatic shift on the sides. An alternative to this would be to use a neutral density (ND) filter over the lens to rein in light output instead of closing the iris.

Hello there every one. I have just resently recieved my Z3. I am having problems with greenish and blueish blur in the sides of the picture when showing black. Is it due to IRIS or do I need some filters ?

I using a white screen.

Is there anywhere to buy filters made for the Z3 og do you have to cut the filters your self to make them fit the objective?

I hope I am not asking to many stupid questions...

Seerup

Hello there every one. I have just resently recieved my Z3. I am having problems with greenish and blueish blur in the sides of the picture when showing black. Is it due to IRIS or do I need some filters ?

I using a white screen.

Is there anywhere to buy filters made for the Z3 og do you have to cut the filters your self to make them fit the objective?

I hope I am not asking to many stupid questions...

Seerup

Filter?.... bhphotovideo or try pming sainthalo... there are no filters specifically made for z3.

Filter?.... bhphotovideo or try pming sainthalo... there are no filters specifically made for z3.


the few i have left are specifically sized for a z3 :)

sainthalo....the Z3 filters that you have specifically sized for it.....do you have the housing made for filter?I want an extra set.of filters......so...........

The COLOR control is grayed out with HDMI because you don't need it. HDMI is a digital connection, and the amount of color is sent as a digital value. The reason you have a COLOR control with component (or any other analog method) is because it has to reconstruct the level of color from the analog signal.

A few things: The R, G and B controls are NOT to change color. Those are to change the color balance of white (which is how you adjust grayscale). With analog signals where you can actively change the color settings, you use COLOR and TINT in the user menu to adjust blue saturation and hue, then use the service menu tweaks listed earlier in the thread to line up green and red. Again, this is NOT necessary with HDMI because color data is not being reconstructed from an analog signal. That's one of the advantages of HDMI - there is no digital to analog to digital conversion going on.

The chromatic aberrations you're describing (i.e. color tint on either side) are caused by closing the iris an excessive amount. It's an unfortunate problem with the Z3, and is simply due to the way the light path is built in the projector. Try opening the iris up a bit and see if it doesn't get better.

This is another advantage of using a CC30R filter on the Z3 - it reduces overall light output enough that you can open the iris up more, thus reducing the chromatic shift on the sides. An alternative to this would be to use a neutral density (ND) filter over the lens to rein in light output instead of closing the iris.
I saw when I looked in the manual that the option for adjusting color isn't avalible when using HDMI, just as you said.

I tried to open the iris, it got a little better but I still have the problem with green at the left side and red och the right.

sainthalo....the Z3 filters that you have specifically sized for it.....do you have the housing made for filter?I want an extra set.of filters......so...........

i have the correctly sized for z3 filters for anyone that wants them. you then tape them on to the z3. if you want to be fancy you can make a filter mount like i did and showed in my slideshow. i dont have the resource to make mounts for everyone though :p

Did anyone got discoloration of their filter or that's just me? :(

Did anyone got discoloration of their filter or that's just me? :(
Discoloration from the filter?Is the filter itself disclored ?Or is it projecting a discolored picture on screen?.....What kind of filters are they?What brand?What type ???Gel??

For anyone interested, I got a few snaps of the 360 on the Z3. Check my gallery. My digital camera sucks, but this ought to give you an idea of how nice it looks on the 92" screen.

For anyone interested, I got a few snaps of the 360 on the Z3. Check my gallery. My digital camera sucks, but this ought to give you an idea of how nice it looks on the 92" screen.

omg. more more. wow.

I just added a few more pics. It's hard to take pics of the other games I have, because my camera doesn't handle motion well. PGR3 and Madden '06 let you do still-frames from replays, so I can take pics of those easily.

Jeremy, how are you enjoying the xbox360 on your Z3? I just got my 360 last week and connected it to my Z3 and was thoroughly impressed. One thing I noticed, unless it’s just my setup, with my Z3 calibrated for movies, the xbox image tends to lean a tad on the dark side. Do you notice this? I have found “Dynamic” mode really helps with this and adds some punch to the games. Overall though, I am quite satisfied.

Jeremy? Are you currently using the HDMI with Z3?I just ordered my HDMI and DVI to HDMI converter today and I'm going to use my new 995 Sony Mega changer along with Samsung 160 D* HD receiver with the HDMI on Z3......Is there that big of a difference compared to your Tweaked settings and Filter suggestions with component...which by the way is AWESOME.......... compared to the HDMI cable?Do you have the HDMI settings tweaked?If so can they be tweaked with CC10y,CC20R filters or do I need to get the CC30 something filter?Let me know...and if you could will you post the exact tweaked settings that you have with HDMI and Z3..i will be forever thankful......ps.What does a HDMI HD picture look like compared to a HD component picture??Thanks quickfire

Italia, I'm loving the 360 on the Z3. There is nothing like Call Of Duty 2 on a screen that big with surround sound. I haven't found any reason to change settings on the Z3 between my DVD player and the 360. However, the DVD playback on the 360 is SERIOUSLY flawed, and you should absolutely not use it to calibrate your display. It outputs black shelf as 15IRE like a standard 480i player would... while it should be putting out 0IRE via component. This is screwy because the HD resolutions naturally use 0IRE... meaning if you calibrate your display with the 360's DVD playback and a calibration disc then switch to a game, you're losing all kinds of shadow detail. Several of the games (PGR3, Condemned, etc.) have test patterns that let you do a quick check of how the settings compare to your other gear, so give that a look. If black level is still correct but you still get an overall dark looking picture out of it, try bumping the gamma up a notch or two and that should help.

Quickfire, I'm not using HDMI. If you look earlier in the thread, ROne posted his CC30R tweaked settings for HDMI, which should work great for you. I'm using component video for my HD-cable, 360 and DVD player. Where HDMI gains its biggest advantage (in my opinion) is that it removes analog color decoding from the process. Since HDMI transmits the picture data digitally, the color decoding step that analog feeds go through (composite, S-Video and component) is unnecessary because color levels are digital values. With analog, you're reconstructing the color data from the analog information... and since color decoders almost always have red push in consumer gear (yes, even on the Z3), you have to tweak that out. A few pages back in this thread, I posted the service menu tweaks for those of us using component that should get the color decoder in line. Used in conjunction with ROne's grayscale tweaks (which should be roughly the same whether you're using HDMI or component), the results are brilliant. You can't go wrong either way, in my opinion.

Should I be using HDMI? Probably... but I have yet to find a DVD player that provides as solid a performance as my good ole' 480p Faroudja chipset Panasonic RP56, so I'm in no rush to change.

Jeremy...I will post back in about a week..to let everyone who is interested in a HD FEED thru HDMI....thats were i think HDMI will outperform Component!Then again I may be totally wrong....I'll post back within the week an tell you what diffrence there is if any!

By the way thats some nice pics of the 360!I want one but there just about impossible to find........

Hi,

Currently I am using a standard 480p progressive scan DVD player with the Z3 with HDMI in via Denon 3806. I am wondering how much improvement I will see in picture quality by upgrading to a upscaling DVD player.

I am sure lots of folks on this forum has tried both types of DVD player and I would greatly appreciate your input.

Cheers

Pankaj

Currently I am using a standard 480p progressive scan DVD player with the Z3 with HDMI in via Denon 3806. I am wondering how much improvement I will see in picture quality by upgrading to a upscaling DVD player.

In my case, I started with z3 & dvd over hdmi. Now, I have z3 & dvd over component cable @ 480p because I'm using z3 & hd tuner over hdmi. I see better a results in using hdmi for hd than dvd and it also saves me from buying hdmi switch.

Lastly, if the Denon 3806 has better scaler than the z3 then use hdmi.

Discoloration from the filter?Is the filter itself disclored ?Or is it projecting a discolored picture on screen?.....What kind of filters are they?What brand?What type ???Gel??

It's a Lee filter CC30R, after maybe a week I noticed some strange change in coloration on screen when moving the filter (more red on other areas of the filter, it's a 10x10cm). I unmounted it and put it on a white paper and could clearly see the red was lighter where the image used to pass through.
If it was a defective filter I'll just buy another one but if it's not I definitly need something else :rolleyes:

Filters do fade over time... but it shouldn't have happened after a week. Heck, mine doesn't seem to have faded at all after months of use. The set of Kodak filters I was using previously never exhibited any fading after 4-5 months of use.

Interesting posts Ishan and Jeremy!

Just checked mine which has been there for around four months - over 100 hours use - and it has faded a bit. I just moved it around a quarter turn. By doing this should get say 400 - 500 hours out of it which im happy with.

I have a contact at Lee Filters in England and so I spoke to a Lee Filters technician about this today and he said every substance will deteriorate due to the heat effect of the light passing through; they said glass maybe the best for long term but obviously expensive and difficult to mount for our use. They also said the z3 is not bad wear considering on theatre lights they last only one hour. Given we can get several uses from one filter by flipping the filter a turn or so then I hink its fair enough.

Its a shame there is definitely no filter known to Lee Filters (and thus presumably to the whole industry) which lasts forever.

Actually its even more of a shame theres no bulb thats lasts forever!! (LED?)

Well, mine is burned on several places now, it looks more like a CC10R hahaha
I'll get another one and mount it further from the lens, maybe it'll help :)

Italia, I'm loving the 360 on the Z3. There is nothing like Call Of Duty 2 on a screen that big with surround sound. I haven't found any reason to change settings on the Z3 between my DVD player and the 360. However, the DVD playback on the 360 is SERIOUSLY flawed, and you should absolutely not use it to calibrate your display. It outputs black shelf as 15IRE like a standard 480i player would... while it should be putting out 0IRE via component. This is screwy because the HD resolutions naturally use 0IRE... meaning if you calibrate your display with the 360's DVD playback and a calibration disc then switch to a game, you're losing all kinds of shadow detail. Several of the games (PGR3, Condemned, etc.) have test patterns that let you do a quick check of how the settings compare to your other gear, so give that a look. If black level is still correct but you still get an overall dark looking picture out of it, try bumping the gamma up a notch or two and that should help..

No changes from your DVD player to 360? Interesting.. My 360 is a lot darker than my HTPC and the only way to get the test pattern in PGR3 to be able to read the B and W was to increase gamma by +4 (increasing brightness made the B visible, but also made blacks look gray), contrast by +10, and open up the iris more..

Anyone else have similar experience?

I even connected my 360 to both my RPTV and a CRT tv and every game I play on the 360 is clearly on the dark side. Refreshing only because now I know it has nothing to do with my PJ. I have created a separate user-preset on my Z3 for when I use the 360 that opens the IRIS more and puts it in dynamic mode. Much more pleasurable.

Ah... well, my calibrated settings start with Dynamic mode anyway. Also, I have a preset for movies (-40 Iris) and one for daytime viewing (0 Iris) that I use for the 360 most of the time because brighter is better for gaming, in my opinion. My settings are tweaked a bit from those that ROne posted here, and I run gamma at +1 before adjusting contrast/brightness because I find that I get better shadow detail without washing out blacks that way. That could explain why I'm not having to change any of my settings (other than opening the iris) to play the 360.

On both my ISF-calibrated RPTV and the Z3, however, the 360 matches perfectly to the black/white levels of my Panasonic RP-56 player. If I check it with Avia, then switch to PGR3 or Condemned's test screens, they match up perfectly. Haven't had any issues playing on either so far.

The only downside is that I almost always play on the Z3, because I don't want to get any burn-in on my CRT-based RPTV. Considering how much I've been playing lately, I may need my first new bulb in the very near future.

Hey Jeremy, how are the jaggies (aliasing) in PGR3 for ya?

The only downside is that I almost always play on the Z3, because I don't want to get any burn-in on my CRT-based RPTV. Considering how much I've been playing lately, I may need my first new bulb in the very near future.

lol, I hear ya. Since I got my 360, my PJ has seen a 50% increase in use.

Last night I opened the IRIS all the way (0), and the brighter image definately made an improvement.


Hey Jeremy, how are the jaggies (aliasing) in PGR3 for ya?

I realize this question is not directed towards me, but I don't experiece any jaggies at all in PGR3 (or any other game for that matter). :)

Are you sure Italia_NYC? I get major jaggies in PGR3, you know, when the outer lines of the car look more like stairs than a straight line?

Every other game I have played I get no jaggies though.. Oh and DOA4 looks ABSOLUTELY AMAZING on the Z3!!!!

I don't get "jaggies" like you're saying... but I do get some moire patterns on stuff. Many believe that PGR3 is being rendered at lower than 720p then scaled up, which is consistent with the moire effect I'm seeing in the game. Still, PGR3 is an amazing looking game, though I wish I was better at it.

And yeah, DOA4 is JAW-DROPPING. I played for a solid 6 hours today, split between online play and playing through all the story modes so I could unlock the Spartan character. I still don't think I'll play this one online as much as I play Perfect Dark Zero, but it's great to have a fighting game I can play against friends out of state.

Check my column here (http://www.redassedbaboon.com/column/?ct_id=43) for further impressions on the games and the 360 as a whole.

Neither of you have jaggies? Hmmm considering we are all using the same hardware, perhaps I have something set up wrong?

I'm using the 360's component cable set to HDTV plugged directly into component 2 on the Z3. I have the 360 set to 720P and Widescreen.

What else could there be?

Here, this is what I'm referring to when I say "jaggies". Just to make sure we are 100% on the same page....

http://www.frontiernet.net/~Spyle/jaggies/compare_1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~Spyle/jaggies/compare_2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~Spyle/jaggies/compare_3.jpg

You really don't see that on your Z3??

Next time I fire up PGR3, I will pay close attention and let you know for sure.

As for DOA4, unfortunately I don't have it yet, but I here it's fabulous; and judging by your and Jeremy's satisfaction, I am looking very forward to picking up this game!

I've just been reading about the 360 doing 750p which is the japanese name for 720p at 60hz which the Z3 can manage over a D-Terminal D4 connection which is on the japanese z3 only:

http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/z3/images/02/02_07.jpg

luckily i have a japanese z3! :)

"It promotes a popular misconception that is based on the different ways the US and Japan describe identical HDTV systems.

The US quote the number of lines that contain picture information (i.e. active lines) - which are 1080 and 720 for the two common US standards of 1080/60i and 720/60p. (This is because the US system is based on the formats used for broadcasting digital TV where MPEG2 only broadcasts the active video over the air)

In Japan they quote the total number of lines (including the invisible lines top and bottom used for sync pulses and blanking) They therefore call the same HDTV systems 1125 and 750 - because there are 45 and 30 lines that don’t carry picture information. (This is because the Japanese quote the system used to connect HDTV devices to HDTV displays, which use the full number of lines - not just the lines that have pictures)

750/60p and 720/60p are therefore actually identical - they just have different names in the different territories. Just as 1125/60i and 1080/60i are now identical too. (Originally, in the late 80s and early 90s, the Japanese used 1125 total lines, but only around 1030 of them were active - this changed a while back)

It is a bit like the difference between 525 line NTSC and 480/60i - they are the same video system - the 525 quotes the total number of lines, the 480 quotes just the number of lines that contain picture information."



:D

Quite right but I did say:

I've just been reading about the 360 doing 750p which is the japanese name for 720p at 60hz ...


;)

PS I dont have an Xbox 360 but from what i read on t'internet earlier (which included the above posting) it sounds like the 360 will do:

component - 720p at 50hz
d-terminal - 750p (720p) at 60Hz

Its that 60Hz which is the bonus factor (as cars will go faster in PGR3!!!!)

:D

First of all - sainthalo, jeremy, ROne and the rest of you Z3 owners - thanks for making this thread so valuable, as well as making it so easy for me to get the "wow factor" right out of the box. Couldn't have done it without you.

Quick question on the filterless settings for anyone who has tried them:

Should the "Gain R" setting be -15 instead of +15? At +15, grays and whites are sepia toned and fleshtones are horrible, but at -15 colors look great. BTW, this is for the component input using the 1db attenuator.


Personally the best filterless settings I have found seem to be a bit of a secret although ROne has shared them. They do lack a contrast punch for which you need to get filters but they are D65 so the colouring is spot on. Fine tune brightness and contrast yourself:

Rone Natural 6500 +/- 150
Start with Natural preset - turn down lamp, adjust sharpness and set IRIS. I have settled on -52 for Iris, as without the filters you need help to get rid of panel leakage.
C: +6
B: -1
R: +9
G: -2
B: -4
Iris: -52
Gain R: +15
Gain G: +3
Gain: B: -9
Offset R: -15
Offset G: +2
Offset B: 0
Gammas: all 0
Overscan: 0

If you need some filters cheaply at cost/postage email or pm me.

First of all - sainthalo, jeremy, ROne and the rest of you Z3 owners - thanks for making this thread so valuable, as well as making it so easy for me to get the "wow factor" right out of the box. Couldn't have done it without you.

Quick question on the filterless settings for anyone who has tried them:

Should the "Gain R" setting be -15 instead of +15? At +15, grays and whites are sepia toned and fleshtones are horrible, but at -15 colors look great. BTW, this is for the component input using the 1db attenuator.

I don't remember now as I've got the Z4.

But I can tell you I only ever used these settings on an HDMI sourced HTPC. Not sure how they translate to component. If you feel -15 looks correct then stick with it!

Thanks for the quick reply and Happy New Year. After calibrating the Oppo DVD player with Avia over HDMI, I was initially disappointed how my HD tuner over component looked in comparison. Now, with these filterless settings on the HD tuner, I am very happy with both. Cheers.

I don't remember now as I've got the Z4.

But I can tell you I only ever used these settings on an HDMI sourced HTPC. Not sure how they translate to component. If you feel -15 looks correct then stick with it!


Its definitely -15 but i echo Rone as using same HDMI/HTPC setup

Next time I fire up PGR3, I will pay close attention and let you know for sure.

As for DOA4, unfortunately I don't have it yet, but I here it's fabulous; and judging by your and Jeremy's satisfaction, I am looking very forward to picking up this game!

Nope, absolutely not. I tried as hard as I could to find any jaggies when walking around the garage and couldn't. Looked smooth as a baby's botom. :)

Very odd.. What screen size are you at? You have the 360 set at 720p and everything, right? Don't suppose you have a camera to take a pic of an area that I took a pic of for comparison?

This boggles me lol

I tried everything and the only way to get rid of the jaggies as show above is to make the projector out of focus...

I have a 96" screen. When I have some time, I will snap a shot and post it here, and you can compare.

Almost makes me wonder if there is a bug with PGR3 that it does not set it's resolution correctly on some 360's... Many people have complained about jaggies in PGR3 on Xbox forums, and there is always a few people who say they can't see any jaggies....

True. And for the record is has in fact been confirmed, PGR3 is not a true 720P game. I think they said the game is 540P upscaled to 720P. The article was posted over at Planet Xbox 360. Either way, the damn game still looks phenomenal! :)

So is PGR3 still the best arcade racing game for the xbox 360in hidef? Am getting one for a few days and want to get just one game to try out. Like Burnout racing game.

It really depends what style of racing you like. If arcade style, get NFS:MW. It lacks good online play though, which is something PGR3 is great at. I heard Burnout is horrible. Visually, I gotta say NFS:MW wins. Thing is, the way the 2 games play is so different it's hard to compare them.

I got my oppo 971H a couple of days ago, and i´ve been running it with the dvi/hdmi output to the z3 .. The picture looks better than on my old pioneer dv-575, more crisp and detailed .. It´s just that the colors seems way more "washed out" .. When looking at LOTR for instance, the fleshtones look way to pale .. I know that they aren´t supposed to look suntanned, but now they look dead :)

I was using the component output on my pioneer with the cc30r filter on the z3 .. Other than that I was using ROne´s last settings (tweaked brightness/contrast ofcourse), and I also had tweaked the color decoding through the service menu to get rid of the red push .. So both colors and greyscale looked awesome before ..

When I got the oppo I only tweaked the brightness/contrast and left the colorsettings untouched (as they were originally made on hdmi by ROne) .. I find it strange that the colors differ that much .. Could it be that the oppo player is the reason for this, and do I need to retweak the settings so that I can get them to look like they used to on the pioneer? This would be tricky aswell since I have no calibrations tools except for DVE/AVIA and a few other calibrationdvds ..

Any ideas? :o

Hey Jeremy.. Download the Fight Night 3 demo. It will blow your mind.

I got my oppo 971H a couple of days ago, and i´ve been running it with the dvi/hdmi output to the z3 .. The picture looks better than on my old pioneer dv-575, more crisp and detailed .. It´s just that the colors seems way more "washed out" .. When looking at LOTR for instance, the fleshtones look way to pale .. I know that they aren´t supposed to look suntanned, but now they look dead :)

Could it be that the oppo player is the reason for this, and do I need to retweak the settings so that I can get them to look like they used to on the pioneer? This would be tricky aswell since I have no calibrations tools except for DVE/AVIA and a few other calibrationdvds ..

Any ideas? :o

In calibrating with Avia, I needed to bump the Saturation on the Oppo to +3 to achieve proper levels.

In calibrating with Avia, I needed to bump the Saturation on the Oppo to +3 to achieve proper levels.


Oh, alright .. I´ll give that a try tomorrow, on my way to bed now .. Normally one should leave the levels on the dvdplayer on default though ..

Fight Night 3 demo is up on Live? ARGH! I'll have to wait until tomorrow night to check it out.

Hello guys, what´s up???
I need some help. :)
Does anyone here have both Denon 2900 and Sanyo Z3 projector?
Yesterday i tried to calibrate my Sanyo Z3 (with AVIA) but i´m not satisfied with the results :( .
I need someone with the same setup (Denon 2900 + Z3) to help me calibrating my projector (please post here your settings ;) ).


Thank´s
Aramys Campos

Hey Jeremy.. Download the Fight Night 3 demo. It will blow your mind.

Wow, I just downloaded the demo. Unreal. Looks amazing! :eek:

BTW, I haven't forgot about your pics Spy. :)

I just got my z3 and I got a filter previously to use with the settings on here that have been provided, my question is, I am running HDMI and Component to the PJ for different things, do I have to set the settings for each of those separtly, or will it work for both different inputs?

How large of a filter do I need? My Z3 will be here soon. Would this work?

http://www.camcor.com/cgi-bin/cat/id=1059683538

Just in case anyone emails me (gmail doesnt have a vacation msg system), I will shortly be away until the 24th Jan.

How do you check the bulb life on Z3?

How do you check the bulb life on Z3?

Hold the Power button down for 30 seconds. Make sure you have the "Power Off Confirmation" ON in the Setup Menu.

Thanks will send the info off to my friend.

How large of a filter do I need? My Z3 will be here soon. Would this work?

http://www.camcor.com/cgi-bin/cat/id=1059683538

That should work. Seems a little pricey though to me. I paid like $8 for my CC20R filter at a photo shop.

When you upscale a dvdmovie from 576p to 720p, are the colors still the same or do they change somehow?

I thought DVD movies were 480?

I thought DVD movies were 480?

Yes, NTSC movies are but not PAL .. Anyway, I heard something about colors changing when you upscale your picture to 720p .. I´m not sure if that´s true or not but considering that my picture seems more dull now that I am upscaling it to 720p with my new oppo player that might in fact be true?

I just got an Oppo player a few days ago and it is now obvious that the Z3 doesn't handle standard def color (rec 601) correctly. I think it always displays HD color matrix (Rec 709) as it always displays 1280x720 no matter your input res. The oppo and my powerbook over DVI both exhibit incorrect color, most obviously green depression, changing resolutions doesn't matter, I get the same results in 480p, 720p, 1080i. I had previously calibrated over component with a Pioneer 47ai (Powerful with cc30r, tracked grayscale with Spyder2) and tweaked the service menu red and green colors to correct for red push and green depression. These are the symptoms of displaying 601 in 709. Unfortunately you cannot change these service menu items over HDMI, so I'm stuck with bad color. Unless anyone has any great ideas I will probably return the Oppo and stick with a component connection.

Is anyone else having similar problems? Is there any recourse with Sanyo? I've emailed Oppo and their player is correctly converting color matrixes. I checked Apple's DVD player to a DVI Dell monitor and color bars were perfect. So I think the Z3 is the culprit. I hope there is some Service Menu item that can magically switch this.

On an interesting calibration note starting in Dynamic gave me much better fleshtones than starting in Powerful over HDMI. The Powerful cal everyone was washed out and a little green. Not sure if I lost any contrast. I'm using HDMI L1.

I just got an Oppo player a few days ago and it is now obvious that the Z3 doesn't handle standard def color (rec 601) correctly. I think it always displays HD color matrix (Rec 709) as it always displays 1280x720 no matter your input res.

Oppo and Z3 works correctly and displays correct color without any green depression. Z3 HDMI and component color is different. I have nothing more to say about this.

Please note that oppo has not yet fixed PAL issues. Some of those dont affect Z3 but even with Z3 you need to adjust brightness -3 - -2 - -3 when you play PAL to get correct levels.

Please note that oppo has not yet fixed PAL issues. Some of those dont affect Z3 but even with Z3 you need to adjust brightness -3 - -2 - -3 when you play PAL to get correct levels.

what do you mean with these values -3 - -2 - -3, are those settings on the dvdplayer or the z3?

SpyGuy311; I finally snapped a shot of PGR3 the other night. Sorry for the delay. See the attached photo. I think you will be at easy as I was in fact able to reproduce the anomalies you saw (ie. jaggies). Though I don't really see them in the game itself or while racing; they are evident while walking around the garage.

Ah good. I thought I was going nuts. I've noticed that some cars have more prominent jaggies than others too. Yeah, while racing they aren't very noticeable. It's just that I saw them in the garage (and this is the only 360 game I have with them) and when I questioned it on XBOX forums, most people said there are no jaggies at all. Thanks for the pic

Well I guess either my Z3 or my oppo are defective. I measured the DVE green primary over HDMI at .315, .664, which is way off from the 709 spec, red and blue were off too. All I ever did in service menus were Jeremy's color decoder tweaks for component (do not affect hdmi, restored default values with same results). Anyway I'm returning the oppo and will try a Panasonic s97, see if that works correctly. This is all NTSC. I'm at oppo firmware 1111B and 1.01 on z3.

what do you mean with these values -3 - -2 - -3, are those settings on the dvdplayer or the z3?

For oppo dvd player. That is you need to adjust it every time or it doesnt work correctly. You can see how image changes when you do that. -3 brightness -> -2 brightness -> -3 brightness.

Well I guess either my Z3 or my oppo are defective.

Yep.

For oppo dvd player. That is you need to adjust it every time or it doesnt work correctly. You can see how image changes when you do that. -3 brightness -> -2 brightness -> -3 brightness.


Do you use ROne´s setting on the z3 with the cc30r filter or something else?

Firstly, I would like to say thank you very much Saint. I received the filter in great condition, so thank you very much!

Secondly, can anyone recommend some kind of lens holder that I can jimmy to hold the cc30R filter? I live in Canada and am willing to buy or modify something to work with the Z3.

Thanks again Saint, you are a class act.

Well now I'm curious about how my Z3 got screwed up. I vaguely remember the color being correct when I first got it using a Powerbook DVI connection. Is some kind of bad digital hand shaking happening? The last source the DVI-HDMI cable was hooked up to was my sattelite receiver (dish 811). I switched the cable while the Z3 was off, but not completely powered down by the power switch on the back. Maybe some bad data is stuck in the connection. I'm going to try to power cycle it tonight and see if anything changes. Thanks for the assurance that at least the color should be correct. I would love to keep the oppo if I can figure this out.

I haven't received my filters yet but I did buy two pieces of 4X5, thin, picture framing glass. I'm going to place the filters between the glass so I can easily move them in and out of the light path.
I don't know if the glass will create light loss, distortion, or reflection problems, but it only cost $2 and shouldn't hurt the filters.

Hi there, I think I would like to try and just use some kind of plastic lid that I can permanently affix the filter to. That way I can install and remove the filter easily, but without adding any layers to the equation. I have heard of some people being able to find packaged goods that have a screw-on lid that is basically the same size as the housing for the lens. All they did was remove the innards and affixed the filter (like a camera lens cap). I would LOVE to have someone recommend on that they already know fits.

Cheers

I'm still holding my filter on my Z3 the old fashion way. With scotch tape. :D

Hey it works.

I wish I would have kept that lens protector thing that shipped with this! I think I could have made that work for me; as far as a filter holder.

[QUOTE=Italia_NYC]I'm still holding my filter on my Z3 the old fashion way. With scotch tape. :D



LOL............. ME TO ....:D

sigh.. I took my filters off again last night after watching a movie and getting reflective glare in some scenes. I thought I had them as straight as possible, but I guess it's really picky. Anyone else have this problem? It was like when something bright was on the screen, it would somehow reflect and show up somewhere else like a ghost because of the LEE filters. Really need to find a good trick to mount these

sigh.. I took my filters off again last night after watching a movie and getting reflective glare in some scenes. I thought I had them as straight as possible, but I guess it's really picky. Anyone else have this problem? It was like when something bright was on the screen, it would somehow reflect and show up somewhere else like a ghost because of the LEE filters. Really need to find a good trick to mount these

It was like that for me aswell when I used the cc20r and cc10y filters .. The problem disappeared when I got the cc30r though

Saint, or ROne I have a question about the CCR30 settings...

Am I to assume that any setting that is not listed in the instructions that you sent saint which are copied from ROne are supposed to be left at whatever the Z3 was set to from starting with the powerful setting? For example color temp and color.

Also are there any reasons or advantages to not using the CC30R filters always, saint talks about setting the naturals and the filter settings, but why? Isn't the CC30R the best possible refrence look you can acquired with the z3 in your opinion. What purpose would it be not to use it always?

It was like that for me aswell when I used the cc20r and cc10y filters .. The problem disappeared when I got the cc30r though

Must be when the 2 don't have 100% contact all over.

sigh.. I took my filters off again last night after watching a movie and getting reflective glare in some scenes. I thought I had them as straight as possible, but I guess it's really picky. Anyone else have this problem? It was like when something bright was on the screen, it would somehow reflect and show up somewhere else like a ghost because of the LEE filters. Really need to find a good trick to mount these
I have the same problem with the Lee filter, which is strange because I never had a problem when I had the CC20R and CC10Y Kodak filters in front of the lens. I may get a CC30R from Kodak to replace my Lee just to see if the gel material reflects less than the polyester that Lee uses.

I did, however, find a way to eliminate the problem. You have to mount the filter so that it is angled in front of the lens (so it doesn't reflect straight back into the lens). I did this by cutting the filter down a bit and taping the bottom edge of the filter directly to the focus ring (carefully, and after tight focus). The top is taped to the housing of the Z3 with a little excess tape, so the filter sits further away at the top. It only takes a slight angle to kill the reflections. It isn't an elegant solution, but it works.

Thedarksyde, ROne didn't list color because the color control is disabled when using HDMI (because color is digitally correct and not using the analog restoration of component/composite/S-video). If you're using component, the same general settings apply, but you should be using a calibration disc to properly determine brightness, contrast, sharpness and color/tint. Color temp will be USER, since you're changing the RGB settings.

This question is intended for Jeremy, but anyone who can answer this please feel free to do so.

I would like to use both component and HDMI inputs on the Z3. However, as i understand it, the color decoder needs to be tweaked when using the component inputs. If I use the service menu tweaks to correct the color decoder, will this effect the color decoder when i use HDMI? or does the service menu tweak not effect the color decoding in HDMI mode?

Will getting a -1 db attenuator on the red component input eliminate the need for any of those service menu tweaks for correct color decoding?

Thanks,

Bill

The 1dB attenuator will eliminate the red push, but the service menu tweaks also let you line up green as well. If you're not comfortable going into the service menu, then the 1dB attenuator is a must.

No, the service menu tweaks do NOT affect HDMI, because the color decoder isn't used on a digital connection. The reason you have a color decoder is to recreate color from the analog signal of composite/S-video/component video. With a digital connection (DVI, HDMI), the color levels are sent as a digital value instead of having to be decoded. In other words, so long as your source doesn't mess with the colors, you should get accurate color from HDMI.

Could you please repost the service menu tweaks and a link to the 1db attenuator? Or must I go searching through the pages?

Searching through the pages will increase your knowledge. And by that, I mean I would have to search through the pages myself to repost them, so you're on your own. Heh...

But here's the link for the attenuator:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=266-230

Ok Jeremy I found your original service menu post, its on page 19. It refers to the CC20/10 combo, but then you update for the CC30R later. I understand what each change is, that one is for color and the RGB is for white balance. Cool.

Here is my new question...

For the non-service menu settings like color, that I would set for DVD (Component). Would I save it as a seperate user setting then the HDMI setting (Cable TV), or would I be able to use the same one for both and the HDMI would just not use the ones it doesn't need to but the Component ones would?

Thanks Jeremy. I've used your service tweaks, and now the color decoder is pretty much perfect.

Now on to tweaking with the color filter i got from sainthalo. :)
Does it matter how far the filter is from the lens or does it have to be pretty much attached to it? Im thinking about scotch taping it from the top of the front cover to the front bottom of the projector. This way it the lens is on an angle preventing any reflections that my exhibit back onto the lens.