Using Avisynth LimitedSharpen pre-processing with ffdshow for DVD playback!

[Beamer]

Im not sure if this is entirely the cause for some stutter, im in PAL land (no 3:2) and still find some obscure stuttering when using LSF on some occasions.. eg. I can play test clip and see stutter, then play it back again straight away and not see it. These observations have been posted before (by myself and others) and there doesnt appear to be an easy solution (or any solution) - the only general rule of thumb is that the more processing power you have, the less likely you are to see it..

eg. Ive just removed the overclock on my HTPC (back to 3.0ghz from ~3.5Ghz) and am able to play the same clips that I thaught were maxxed out when overclocking seem to play fine.

I did also increate the setmtmode(x) to setmtmode(5) up from setmtmode(2) - which may have had an affect - infact using those settings, with a slower CPU im able to increase my strength up 5..

This may all change tomorrow - it seems to be the nature of the beast :-)

Cheers,
Bitey

Bitey

I'm also in PAL land and have experienced the same issue, I firmly believe that it is still a cadence issue. I think the reason why frames sometimes play correctly and other times not might be related to the spped effect mentioned in my earlier post.

It's early days but now I have a source to test with it's making problems more easy to recognise

[Mr.Bitey]

Beamer,

You might be onto something there :-) - I assume your using the nvida decoder and card - have you tried dscaler5008 to see if thats a problem also? (im Dscaler/Ati here)..

Someone wrote a huge avisynth script that deinterlaces depending on cadence (or something along those lines!) - im trying to find the post.. maybe something in there could be of assistance... (searching)...

I'll post when ive found it...
EDIT: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=582628&highlight=avisynth+qualia+60fsp
There is it.. by Orbitzboy..

Cheers,
Bitey

[Beamer]

Beamer,

You might be onto something there :-) - I assume your using the nvida decoder and card - have you tried dscaler5008 to see if thats a problem also? (im Dscaler/Ati here)..

Someone wrote a huge avisynth script that deinterlaces depending on cadence (or something along those lines!) - im trying to find the post.. maybe something in there could be of assistance... (searching)...

I'll post when ive found it...
EDIT: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=582628&highlight=avisynth+qualia+60fsp
There is it.. by Orbitzboy..

Cheers,
Bitey

I followed the Orbitzboy thread but never did see a script that has a universal de-scaler. For the time being I will concentrate on the de-interlacer plugins downloaded today. I'm currently using a 6600GT card / Theatretek 2.2.

I have not tried Dscaler but I am willing to give it a try if the plugins do not help.

BTW I watched Crash last night in PAL, with processing on it drove me crazy. In certain parts of the movie it appeared to drop frames but it once again was simply a cadence issue, no frames were actually being dropped. I turned off processing and the film played perfectly.

[Beamer]

Here's the info you need, Beamer.

FFDShow
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm
Avisynth
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/Avisynth_256.exe?download
Masktools
http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a27.zip
Removegrain. Open RemoveGrain with Winrar, http://www.rarlab.com
http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar
Media Player classic
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_players/media_player_classic.cfm
ColorMatrix
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ColorMatrix_v110.zip
Decomb
http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Filters/decomb521.zip

DGDecode
http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Decoders/dgmpgdec146.zip


I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools
link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get ColorMatrix.dll from the colormatrix link.
I get DGDecode.dll from the DGDecode link.
I get Decomb521.dll from the decomb link.
I put these 6 plugins into my avisynth plug-in folder.

I delete FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi from the avisynth plugin folder.

In the removegrain link. Use the SSE that your cpu has, either SSE or
SSE 2, or SSE 3.
If your cpu has no SSE, use the removegrain dll that I showed that end
in "S", that means it's not SSE.
Get the corresponding SSE FFDShow as well.

The location of your avisynth plugin folder may be different.
Copy and paste this script in the FFDShow Avisynth text box;

LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\dgdecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\Decomb521.dll")
Telecide(0)
Decimate(cycle=5)
FieldDeinterlace(full=false)
ColorMatrix()
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0, ss_y=1.0, Smode=3, strength=60)


Wow you have been busy Jeremy. Thanks for the assistance as I was not having too much luck on my side. I will try the decoder/filter later today with the test disk and let you know what happens. Boy it would be great if this works!

[Beamer]

Jeremy:

I tried the script but it does not run very smoothly, in fact its not watchable but it does try to lock in which is indicated by the moire pattern disapearing occasionally. I have not removed the files you mention (FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, & TCPDeliver.dll nor am I using removegrain so I'm assuming you have cut and copied from an earlier script that used removegrain as it is not in your script.

Not sure what color matrix is doing, my script also 'imports' LimitedSharpenFaster.

How does it look on your system?

[Jeremy Duncan]

FFDShow
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm
Avisynth
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/Avisynth_256.exe?download
Masktools
http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a27.zip
Removegrain. Open RemoveGrain with Winrar, http://www.rarlab.com
http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar
Media Player classic
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_players/media_player_classic.cfm
ColorMatrix
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ColorMatrix_v110.zip
Decomb
DGDecode
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/decomb.htm


I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools
link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get ColorMatrix.dll from the colormatrix link.
I get DGDecode.dll from the DGDecode link.
I get Decomb521.dll from the decomb link.
I put these 6 plugins into my avisynth plug-in folder.

I delete FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi from the avisynth plugin folder.

In the removegrain link. Use the SSE that your cpu has, either SSE or
SSE 2, or SSE 3.
If your cpu has no SSE, use the removegrain dll that I showed that end
in "S", that means it's not SSE.
Get the corresponding SSE FFDShow as well.

I extract DGIndex.exe and DGDecode.dll
and put them in the same directory.

Assuming you have a .vob from a ripped dvd.

Open DGIndex.
Using File/Open, open your VOB.
Now select Audio/Output Method/Demux All Tracks.
Now select File/Save Project and enter a name for the D2V file.
Hit Save.
The indexing process will start.
When the process finishes, exit DGIndex.

Now you have your D2V file.

The location of your avisynth plugin folder may be different.
Copy and paste this script in the FFDShow Avisynth text box;

LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\dgdecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\Decomb521.dll")
mpeg2source("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\Movie.D2V")
Telecide(0)
Decimate(cycle=5)
FieldDeinterlace(full=false)
ColorMatrix()
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0, ss_y=1.0, Smode=3, strength=60)

You have to rip it as described.
Major mistake on my part.

Fixed the decomb link.
Fixed a error in the copy and paste script.

[Beamer]

"You have to rip it as described.
Major mistake on my part."

I did read earlier that files need to be pre-processed. I trust you agree this is not a practical solution. We need to find a real-time solution.

Interesting experiment nevertheless.

The research goes on..................

regards
Beamer

[Jeremy Duncan]

I'm disappointed that I need to rip it first too.

Quoting Didée.
"Generally, it's tiredsome to solve the "problems" of those wanting to do more or less complex multi-step video processing in realtime. ("Make a proper encoding, or stick with more simple RT processing.")

In particular, trying to do inverse telecine in realtime for sure isn't a too smart idea. The most sophisticated IT filter(s) in their most sophisticated mode(s) run *way below* realtime, for an obvious reason: it's not that easy. Inversely, this means that realtime IT will always contain imperfections.

Possibilities of realtime processing are limited. Period."

[tetsuo55]

I'm disappointed that I need to rip it first too.

Quoting Didée.
"Generally, it's tiredsome to solve the "problems" of those wanting to do more or less complex multi-step video processing in realtime. ("Make a proper encoding, or stick with more simple RT processing.")

In particular, trying to do inverse telecine in realtime for sure isn't a too smart idea. The most sophisticated IT filter(s) in their most sophisticated mode(s) run *way below* realtime, for an obvious reason: it's not that easy. Inversely, this means that realtime IT will always contain imperfections.

Possibilities of realtime processing are limited. Period."


Telecine and interlacing and all that stuff will be solved soon enough by Dscaler5

[Beamer]

Telecine and interlacing and all that stuff will be solved soon enough by Dscaler5

Can you elaborate?

[mikesusangray]

Telecine and interlacing and all that stuff will be solved soon enough by Dscaler5

Hmm. The word "soon" may be misplaced here. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one - unfortunately. The programmer who's done the lion's share of the work hasn't had much time to dedicate to the project fo quite a while now.

Still ... yes. Dscaler could, potentially, at some point, be a very nice step forward.

Mike

[zambelli]

Indeed, ffdshow/LSF combo is pretty useless for DVD watching unless you can guarantee your source is progressive by the time it hits ffdshow in the DirectShow graph. The first step to solving this might be experimenting with different MPEG-2 decoders. Some might have realtime deinterlacing and IVTCing capabilities in software mode.

I've given up on ffdshow+LSF for DVD sources and pretty much use it exclusively for DivX, WMV and other true progressive sources.

[Andy Lammer]

zambelli:

I am using TheaterTek v2.2 with an nVidia 6600GT.
So as I understand it, TT performs de-interlacing via nVidia's Purevideo, which is deemed to be "good deinterlacing"
Then TT sends this progressive content to ffdshow/avisynth/lsf for post-processing.
Is this sequence of events correct ?

- Andy

[Andy Lammer]

PERFORMANCE CONSIDERATIONS .....

Just to recap, here are my settings in ffdshow and I am ONLY using avisynth.

Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpenFaster.avs")
SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(2)")
LanczosResize(1440x960)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100,overshoot=7)")

My main test clip for this is the start of Chapter 10 in Gladiator and let it run for about 2 minutes.
I like this clip as there are lots of horizontal pans, that let me keep on eye on stuttering.

My HTPC is quite good with great overclocking ASUS P5WD2-Premium mobo, 2x512 PC-6400 ( DDR2-800 ) SDRAM, Maxtor 300 Gb SATA-2 hard drive, nVidia 6600GT, Thermaltake Big Typhoon cooler, and Antec TP2-550 power supply .

I have been playing with both an Intel 640 CPU & 940 dual-core CPU, which are both run at 3.2 GHz stock speeds.

I have tried my above "full settings" at stock speeds and reeeally run out of horsepower = heavy stuttering.
So have to either eliminate my HQDN3D, and/or lower my LSF strength heavily, and/or don't do the LanczosResize.
It is only when I overclock to 4+ GHz that I can run with my "full settings" without stutters.

The 900 series of CPUs are great overclockers and still run cool, so I highly recommend them.
Running both the 640 & 940 at around 4.1 GHz, I really don't see the benefit of dual-core for what I am doing within ffdshow.
I cannot add any additional processing after my LSF call.
But keep in mind, that I have resized the DVD to 2x to 1440x960 so any additional functions are working on 4x the data.

When I first installed the 940 a few days ago at stock speeds, I was expecting great things with its dual-core functionality, but that was not the case.
I guess we need to wait for more multi-threaded functions within ffdshow & related plugins.

So now, I have had enough of playing and testing "the limits" within my own means, and am going to just watch & enjoy some DVDs ! :)

- Andy

[zambelli]

zambelli:
I am using TheaterTek v2.2 with an nVidia 6600GT. So as I understand it, TT performs de-interlacing via nVidia's Purevideo, which is deemed to be "good deinterlacing" Then TT sends this progressive content to ffdshow/avisynth/lsf for post-processing. Is this sequence of events correct ?
You should be able to easily verify this. Just throw in a known interlaced DVD (TV show or such) and then watch it frame by frame. If you see deinterlaced progressive output, then you'll know the content has been properly deinterlaced by the MPEG decoder.
You can also enable the OSD: Framerate option in Ffdshow, and watch the framerate. The output will either be 60p for everything, or 24p for movies and 30p for TV. Assuming you're in NTSC world, of course.

BTW, know that any DXVA-MPEG2 decoding capability of the 6600GT is gone once you insert ffdshow into the graph.

[mikesusangray]

Bother.

Just when I thought I had everything working nicely, I get a bad case of the jaggies. I watched Million Dollar Baby with my wife last night, and in some of the scenes I had some horrendous jags. I managed to keep myself from stoipping the movie to fiddle, but this morning I tweaked for quite a while without finding a solution.

Here's an example - look at her left cheekbone:

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/mikesusangray/jaggies.jpg

My normal settings are as follows:

SetMTMode(1)
MT("mergeluma(removegrain(2,-1),0.50).LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,stre ngth=100,overshoot=7)")

Using these settings (a NO other ffdshow filters, including resize) I got the screen shot I've included.

Without any avisynth at all, the jaggies were gone, but the picture was very soft.

By moving my denoise up to this:

SetMTMode(1)
MT("hqdn3d(2).LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,str ength=60,overshoot=7)")

This reduced the jaggies significantly, but they were still there at a marginal level - and hqdn3d was obviously working hard on them. (When I switched settings you could actually see a sort of smoothed band appear over the jagged section.) That's a lot better than nothing, but I'm wondering if the problem lies at a different level all together.

I got to thinking that this might be an interlacing issue, but no deinterlacer I tried made any difference. I also tried switching from Nvidia decoders to ffdshow and using the "hardcode for PAL with ffdshow" setting, but that didn't help either.

You guys have any thoughts about this? I'd like to figure out what's happening here!

Best,

Mike

[mikesusangray]

BTW, sorry for the huge attachment. When I reduced the size, the jaggies diappeared!

Oh - and one other thing: did anyone ever figure out where that horizontal line across the middle of the picture comes from? Seems like some versions of masktools have it and some don't. I've got 2.0.27 in at the moment, and, as you can see, it has the line! But I'm not completely sure that masktools alone is to blame.

Mike

[Beamer]

zambelli:

I am using TheaterTek v2.2 with an nVidia 6600GT.
So as I understand it, TT performs de-interlacing via nVidia's Purevideo, which is deemed to be "good deinterlacing"
Then TT sends this progressive content to ffdshow/avisynth/lsf for post-processing.
Is this sequence of events correct ?

- Andy

Hi Andy

This question was not to me but to clarify Zambelii's response:

All bets are off with TT deinterlacing if you use FFdshow as can be noted from my earlier post "24fps ges output @ 57-59fps" When the frequency drift hits exactly 2 x 24fps (decimals ignored) the picture will look OK but as soon as it moves awayfrom that sweet spot it will show up interlace issues. It's important to note that like the DLP strobe effect, some people are imperviose to the issue as their brain cannot detect the light flicker or in this case frame discrepancy. Unfortunateley, some like me are incredibly sensitive to a missing or additional frame (not the same as a frame drop)

The bottom line is that if you can watch a variety of material without seeing a jitter, judder or Ghosting effect when you know the content to be perfect, then you are one of the lucky ones.

Presently TT cannot handle cadence very well at all if FFdshow is enabled, even if you do not enable any filters at all!! In fact if you simply turn on the Nividia NVPP processor without FFdshow, this screws up cadence control royally!

3:2 Pulldown simply does not work on my 6600GT if any external processing is enabled.

[Jeremy Duncan]

mikesusangray,

I'm curious what my settings look like. My celeron M Notebook is too weak.
Please try them out, be sure not to miss a plug in.
My Blur & NR Denoise3d setting is; 3.63, 2.63, 5.05, HQ checked.
The plugins are below.
I hope it turns out to be a good thing for you.


FFDShow
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm
Avisynth
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/Avisynth_256.exe?download
Masktools http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a27.zip
Removegrain. Open RemoveGrain with Winrar, http://www.rarlab.com
http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar
Media Player classic
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_players/media_player_classic.cfm
ColorMatrix
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ColorMatrix_v110.zip

I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get ColorMatrix.dll from the colormatrix link.
I put these 4 plugins into my avisynth plug-in folder.

I delete FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi from the avisynth plugin folder.

In the removegrain link. Use the SSE that your cpu has, either SSE or
SSE 2, or SSE 3.
If your cpu has no SSE, use the removegrain dll that I showed that end
in "S", that means it's not SSE.
Get the corresponding SSE FFDShow as well.

Copy and paste this script in the FFDShow Avisynth text box;

ColorMatrix()
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0, ss_y=1.0, Smode=3, strength=60)

[hobie_od]

Jeremy: I found that jaggies were much worse if resize is not in my chaing. Adding a Laczos resize after LSF got rid of (or minimized) the jaggies.



Andy Lammer PERFORMANCE CONSIDERATIONS .....
Try increasing the overshoot on LSF and see what happens with the second core. I noticed that increasing the overshoot utilizes the second core more.

These two pieces are how I found that a resize got rid of jaggies. I was wondering if I was using the overshoot if I needed the resize. I came to the conclusion that I did.

Jim

[Jeremy Duncan]

Jeremy: I found that jaggies were much worse if resize is not in my chaing. Adding a Laczos resize after LSF got rid of (or minimized) the jaggies.

So my setup works when using that tweak. Good stuff.

zambelli suggests you do the resizing before LSF. But you found it's better if it's after LSF. Interesting.

What are your PC specs used to do this ?

[Andy Lammer]

Thanks for the clarifications on TT de-interlacing with the use of ffdshow.

Beamer:
I think I understand what you mean by "missing or additional frame ... not a frame drop".
I was assuming that what I am sometimes seeing (as you were describing as de-interlacing and/or cadence issues ) was *in* the source material, but this may not be the case now that I understand more.

- Andy

[Beamer]

Thanks for the clarifications on TT de-interlacing with the use of ffdshow.

Beamer:
I think I understand what you mean by "missing or additional frame ... not a frame drop".
I was assuming that what I am sometimes seeing (as you were describing as de-interlacing issues ) was *in* the source material, but this may not be the case now that I understand more.

- Andy

I believe that Interlace and Cadence issues are frequently misunderstood. It is only recently that I have finally begun to understand the differences between them myself and I attribute that knowledge mostly to using the test DVD and reading the excellent booklet that came with it.

Jaggies are definitley associated with interlacing but Judders, Jitter & Ghosting can all be caused by Cadence assuming that the CPU always has enough overhead to deal with the processing. I beleive this is the reason why a lot of DVD's can be processed using Avisynth and look really great, yet others can just drive you crazy.

[mikesusangray]

Jeremy: I found that jaggies were much worse if resize is not in my chaing. Adding a Laczos resize after LSF got rid of (or minimized) the jaggies.

Odd. That didn't help me. The only thing that seems to help right now is hqdn3d. But I'm thinking that the problem must lie at some other point in the chain. I have the feeling that hqdn3d is a ptch over job for something I ought to fix at adifferent point.

If I only knew where ...

Mike

[Mr.Bitey]

All,

Anyone have any progress on resolving the miscalanious stutters?

I watched two anime titles the other night, one stuttered - the other did not.
GITS2 - Innocence (r4 pal) did not stutter, GITS SAC 2ND GIG Vol2 - did stutter (so much so I turned off LSF).

Cheers,
Bitey

[Andy Lammer]

I am not into Anime, but they would be encoded with their own cadence settings that are unique to Anime. I had no idea there were so many until I ran through the HQV Benchmark DVD.

With my setup, I get great results for film DVD's but crappy results for TV programming on DVD, such as the series NipTuck in particular. I feel it is all cadence related. For NipTuck, I also don't use avisynth but rather used ffdshow's Blur & Noise, and Resize, and dScaler Sharpen.

For even more preformance and smoooooth playback, when I rent a DVD, I will first copy it to my hard drive and playback from there. Makes me think that realtime playback of DVD via a PC's DVD drive is inherently flawed. Even on my super-fast HTPC with no ffdshow or post-processing, I am somewhat aware of micro-stutter, even on film, that is not there once played back via the hard drive.

- Andy

[Mr.Bitey]

Hi Andy,

I was doing some testing with R4 (PAL) LOTR (extended edition) Two Towers, I use a dark panning scene (camera is 'flying' over and around a tower with lava-fall in background) - sometimes this would stutter, sometimes it wouldnt.. AFAIK this is a film based title.. i still dont understand why this stutters sometimes on the same material :)

Gradiant Banding is the other problem im seeing with LSF - mainly in dark scenes.. I spotted another fast (designed for realtime) filter on doom9 that might fix this, but the stuttering is what bugs me most :) I prefer (by quite a lot) the LSF image and like hqdn3d too but find myself going back to ffdshow lan4 luma sharpen (1.20) and denoise3d fast.. this is silk smooth for me.. but not quite as nice.. (sigh)..

I also rip everything to HDD (ISO image, then mount with daemon tools - all automated) - I rent a lot of discs, which are often scratched - I erase them once ive returned the rental - i'd rather clean a dirty rental during ripping then ruin a good movie!

Cheers,
Bitey

[Pisangbusuk]

There are a few things to prevent stutters.. after 3 weeks of messing around these are the list.....

Use Yuv12 on raw video input and output.
Convert to yuv12 using avisynth.

Use x=1.0 y=1.0 and not more.. more will cause stutter

Use limitsharpenfaster

Use the correct sse version for removegrains /repair and ffdshow

Using Reclock

Lanczos parameter 2 instead of 4 .. 4 will cause stutter.

using normal overlay instead of vmr 7 or 9

[Mrkazador]

Ive done a side by side comparasion of a parameter of 4 and defualt and i see no difference at all. I suggest leaving it at defualt.

[deandob]

I also agree, I can't see a difference between Lanczos 2 and 4, except for 30% more CPU load.

Another question - has anyone got Trimension DNM from the WinDVD codec working with avisynth (as per socios's guide)? I have an Athlon 64 x2 and constantly get crashes when switching on DNM. Yet it works fine on my desktop Pentium machine so I'm suspecting its a hardware compatibility problem.

Regards,
Dean

[Mr.Bitey]

Hmm anything screwy going on with the forums? - im sure I posted a couple of messages here yesterday and now theyre gone! :(

[edit] - just saw the annoucement :( and I had the cure to the stuttering too!!! (I WISH).

Anyway, what I was on about was that I was watching some movies with avisynth enabled (doing hqdn3d - as I cant stand the denoise3d fast anymore with its frame-ghosting (spoiled now)).. and I didnt see any stuttering.. now this may have been because the titles were not the sort that cause the stutter but an interesting observation none the less..

Anyway the point is, Beamer - you mentioned earlier that you thaught the cadence issues were responsible for the stuttering, and that any introduction of avisynth would result in this behaviour - did you do any testing without LSF but still using avisynth? - perhaps it is LSF causing the issues itself..

Cheers,
Bitey

[Apollo 13]

can someone posts a new link for the masktools for a AMD 64 CPU because the one at the beginning of the thread doesn't work anymore.

[Mr.Bitey]

Apollo 13: http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a28.zip

[Jeremy Duncan]

http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a28.zip
http://students.washington.edu/lorenm/src/avisynth/hqdn3d/hqdn3d-0.11.zip
http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/ffdshow-20040709_SSE2.exe
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/AviSynth_260402.exe?download
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/guliverkli/mpc2kxp6490.zip?download

I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get HQDN3D.dll from the HQDN3D link.

I delete from the avisynth plugin folder:
FFAvisynth.dll
DirectShowSource.dll
TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi

HQDN3D(0.9)
Lanczosresize(1024,576)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot =7)

What is the Overshoot range ?

[Mr.Bitey]

Jeremy,

Quote from Didée over on Doom9:

"overshoot
This specifies how much the sharpening result may "shoot over" the min and max limits, before either clipping or reduction will be done. 0=no overshoot allowed at all, 128="make-this-script-useless"
Default is overshoot=1."

It appears to set the overshoot min and max level limits for sharpening and will clip or reduce (or increase) the sharpening effect depending those limits.

Have a read of Didée's first post in the Doom9 LSF thread.. I believe there are some references later in that thread.

Cheers,
Bitey

[Pisangbusuk]

Someone just suggested using trimension dnm.... I did not manage to install the required windvd 6,, However I simply use the windvd 7 decoder, results is very very good. The picture is more 3 dimensional and smooth with windvd7 as decoder+FFdshow as compared than just using theatertek+ffdshow(setting belows)
What i did;
=I simply install latest Windvd 7 .
=Use Zoomplayer to use WinDVD 7 as video codec. and Reclock 1.7 as audio. FFDShow with limitsharpen(settings below) as post.
-Tried turn on cinemadnm using regedit.. pitcure became brighter and flatter. Therefore its turned OFF.
-UseDNM = 1 regedit. no effect but leave on ..
-32pulldown = 1
-DXVA=1 (not sure it does anything)
- PROGSCAN=1
-HDFASTMODE=1
-NOVIDEODROP=1
-bobweave=0
under-->
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\InterVideo\Common\VideoDec\zplaye r
--add using Dword.. set to 1.

Note : 3d effect looks more intense using windvd as player. However, Zoomplayer +Windvd7codec+ffdshow looks more 3d and smoother than Theatertek+ffdshow(shown below)..

Funtastic.

_____

What i did previously :

Limitsharpen + Hqdn3d.. took me 2 weeks + to mess around and finaly got the results I desire Highly enhanced sharpness with minimal Halo.. I mainly watch Poor Quality DVD, Use a LFS Screen, therefore looks soft, and a H30 that is also pretty soft.... so..... turned out Just nice ! My setup got a new life!

Fantastic..
special thanks to Socio for posting the guides.

SS taken

Before: Screen captured with Theatertek 2.06
http://www.picfury.com/7/01_52_39 Large-1-th.JPG (http://www.picfury.com/7/01_52_39 Large-1.html)

After: With Limitsharpenfaster (renamed to limitsharpen) +Hqdn3d(3) + lanczos resize 2 1024X 768, taken with a G3 Cannon. frame freezed.

http://www.picfury.com/7/IMG_0089-1-th.JPG (http://www.picfury.com/7/IMG_0089-1.html)

Raw Video = YuV12 checked

converttoyv12()
crop(8,8,-8,-8,true)
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\removegrain.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\degrainmedian.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\vaguedenoiser.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\hqdn3d.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")
hqdn3d(3).LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,str ength=250,overshoot=7)


Notice the name faster and one without? thats intentional coz i renamed the limitsharpenfaster to limitsharpen..

+lanczos resize 2 1024X768 . 2 chorma
Output Yuv 12 checked only

in Overlay mode
Reclock 17 b3.
My Gear

HTPC amd64 754 2800 , 1 gig ddr 333, MSI 6600GT VGA output 1024x768. 84.12 Version driver. Winxp.

Using Light Fusion , First Mirror . (makes screen Blurr)
H30 Optoma ( not very sharp too)

Running Everything SSE2 optimised.

My Pluggins !! (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RD1849P5) if u want it.. its SSE2 Optimised btw....

[-.-PhanTom-.-]

Hey all...
Just finished building my HTPC and having problems getting a decent DVD image on my tv.
My specs:
TV=32' CRT 100Mhz
HTPC: Pentium D805, 2 X 512 Mb DDR RAM, Radoen 9700, Haupauge MCE500 tuner, HDA X-plosion soundcard

I have read a few pages of this thread and found it very interesting, however, I am totally new to all of this, and the info in this hread is very "technical" to me.

So my question, or plea, is:
Is there a tutorial/guide for newbies like myself about this very specific tweaking method, or how to I best go about setting up my PC to take advantage of these tweaks?

Or should I just start by using more simple ways og viewing DVDs and live with the "poor" quality? :)

[Mr.Bitey]

Hi Phantom,

Check out Socio's guide - it'll run you through step by step for applying Limited Sharpen Faster. Link: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/ffdshowGuides/index.html

This guide assumes youve already got your software dvd player working :-) - It will be difficult to troubleshoot if you try and do it all at once!!

There is another thread on how to setup zoomplayer, dscaler and I think ffdshow (have a search of topics) - i'd recommend doing this first, then adding LSF..

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

Jeremy,

That should look fine of course subject to taste! - my setup usually gets stuttery once I increase strength to that level - im curious as to why hddn3d(0.9) and not just 1 ? :-)

Is there a place to enable ffdshow in MPC ? - your walkthrough doesnt show how to turn that part on (if you need to) - I use zoomplayer and im not familiar with MPC.

Cheers,
Bitey

[Pisangbusuk]

JD ..

hum.. hqdn3d is 1 or 2 or 3 isnt that right? are u sure there is a decimal? And (3) gives the most fine results.. 1 is too smooth.

You need to import the avs and load the plugins function also... for safety...
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\removegrain.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\degrainmedian.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\vaguedenoiser.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\hqdn3d.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")

Why u have to delete those dll? ..... very wierd.

To be frank.. I had been much confused by all your posts and guides....

[Pisangbusuk]

and you cant just use the SSE2 like that..

you rename the RemoveGrainSSE2.dll to RemoveGrain.dll thus the limitsharpen.avs script will use the sse2 version.... are u sure thats how u use it?????? same with degrainmedian,vaguedenoiser... Im not sure if limitsharpen use all.. I just make sure its there......

Im not sure if ur script works at all.

Where is the resize function everyone suggested...

[Mr.Bitey]

Pisangbusuk,

My avisynth call looks similar to that - so long as limitedsharpenfaster has a .avsi extension it will autoload - as will the other plugins so long as theyre in the default avisynth plugin folder.. Technically no need to individually load them (in this case)..

My understanding of the removegrainsse2.dll is that because its in the default plugins dir it will be loaded and its functions will thus be called from LSF - there is no need to rename it. (I could be wrong here - but so long as only one removegrain dll is loaded the functions inside it should be called regardless of the filename)..

HQDN3D usage can include decimals, from doing a little reading earlier in this thread actually is very customisable. see here http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?action=browse&id=Filter_Plugins/Filter_Hqdn3d&revision=13

When you specify Hqdn3d(x) this is working only on the luma spatial strength with all others remaining default.. see here http://students.washington.edu/lorenm/src/avisynth/hqdn3d/hqdn3d.txt

Im with you with regard to following Jeremy's guides and some posts LOL.. Im still unsure as to his motives given he doesnt run the scripts hes suggesting to people (implied through posting guides)..

Cheers,
Bitey

[Jeremy Duncan]

Pisangbusuk,

My avisynth call looks similar to that - so long as limitedsharpenfaster has a .avsi extension it will autoload - as will the other plugins so long as theyre in the default avisynth plugin folder.. Technically no need to individually load them (in this case)..

My understanding of the removegrainsse2.dll is that because its in the default plugins dir it will be loaded and its functions will thus be called from LSF - there is no need to rename it. (I could be wrong here - but so long as only one removegrain dll is loaded the functions inside it should be called regardless of the filename)..

HQDN3D usage can include decimals, from doing a little reading earlier in this thread actually is very customisable. see here http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?action=browse&id=Filter_Plugins/Filter_Hqdn3d&revision=13

When you specify Hqdn3d(x) this is working only on the luma spatial strength with all others remaining default.. see here http://students.washington.edu/lorenm/src/avisynth/hqdn3d/hqdn3d.txt

Im with you with regard to following Jeremy's guides and some posts LOL.. Im still unsure as to his motives given he doesnt run the scripts hes suggesting to people (implied through posting guides)..

Cheers,
Bitey

Hqdn3d(0.9) shows more detail, and looks no worse than Hqdn3d(3)

Without that remove grain in the plugins folder I get a error when I open a dvd using limitedsharpenfaster.
When I do as I've shown in the example above I get no error.

Mr.Bitey.
I'm working on getting the pieces together.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Hqdn3d(0.9)

I use 0.9 because it works better. I was running a calibration disk on Media Player Classic and running the setup I showed you and tried Hqdn3d(2)

There was a ugly calibration pattern as a result.
So I lowered it decimal by decimal until I got to 0.9
The calibration pattern was no longer ugly.

I got the ugly effect because my old pc cannot run these plugins.
Without trouble.
It's the perfect setup for finding out how much Hqdn3d should be set.
With however I have my pc setup. I found this out.
Don't want to strain my brain thinking about it.

So now I recommend using Hqdn3d(0.9) because it's the best setting for it.

Edit.
I think because my pc was stressed already, and showing this via the calibration disk.
The Hqdn3d setting put it over the top, and it was easy to see what I consider the best setting.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Where is the resize function everyone suggested...

I just right click and select full screen.
Resizing in ffdshow avisynth is harder on the cpu.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Is there a place to enable ffdshow in MPC ?

Not that I know of.

[Mr.Bitey]

Jeremy,

What was the test disc and pattern? - some of those test discs use a static image which wont do a denoiser like hqdn3d much good (it needs a couple of frames to work out whats noise and what supposed to be there :)

Just because that setting worked best on your test pattern doesnt mean thats the setting it should be used on video - it depends how noisey the video is :) and what sort of noise as to what type of denoiser, and at what settings. I'd generally agree that a low setting like youve suggested is probably good enough as a catch-all but should be turned off for extremily clean video, or turned up for extremily noisey video..

Im also interested in what hqdn3d did to the calibration pattern!

With regard to remove grain (and most other plugins) - you either need to leave it in the default plugins folder (they are all autoloaded) or load it explicitly from another folder.

Cheers,
Bitey

[Jeremy Duncan]

Im not sure if ur script works at all.



I can assure you it does indeed work.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Jeremy,

What was the test disc and pattern? - some of those test discs use a static image which wont do a denoiser like hqdn3d much good (it needs a couple of frames to work out whats noise and what supposed to be there :)

Just because that setting worked best on your test pattern doesnt mean thats the setting it should be used on video - it depends how noisey the video is :) and what sort of noise as to what type of denoiser, and at what settings. I'd generally agree that a low setting like youve suggested is probably good enough as a catch-all but should be turned off for extremily clean video, or turned up for extremily noisey video..

Im also interested in what hqdn3d did to the calibration pattern!

With regard to remove grain (and most other plugins) - you either need to leave it in the default plugins folder (they are all autoloaded) or load it explicitly from another folder.

Cheers,
Bitey


The getgray brightness pattern. With the black screen where the bars move back and forth.

The effect was thick lines would pop up. On the black bars.

[Pisangbusuk]

JD,
As long as the guides work ... I'm satisfied... Just that the method differ greatly from socio. .. that leaves me very puzzled. Sorry about jumping on you.

Thanks for explaining.

[Mr.Bitey]

Jeremy,

Which test disc?

Cheers,
Bitey

[Jeremy Duncan]

Jeremy,

Which test disc?

Cheers,
Bitey
http://www.calibrate.tv/

[Mr.Bitey]

Cheers - that wasnt the disc that 'professionally calibrated' your display (to be very dark) was it? ;-)

[Jeremy Duncan]

Cheers - that wasnt the disc that 'professionally calibrated' your display (to be very dark) was it? ;-)

Not sure what your talking about ?

[Mr.Bitey]

Just stiring a little (back to your earlier ffdshow postprocessing/levels adjustments of gamma in particular that looked exceptionally awful on everyone elses displays). Back on topic now ;)

[-.-PhanTom-.-]

Hi Phantom,

Check out Socio's guide - it'll run you through step by step for applying Limited Sharpen Faster. Link:

This guide assumes youve already got your software dvd player working :-) - It will be difficult to troubleshoot if you try and do it all at once!!

There is another thread on how to setup zoomplayer, dscaler and I think ffdshow (have a search of topics) - i'd recommend doing this first, then adding LSF..

Cheers,
Bitey
Thnx for the advice... have tried a bit and think I have all programs installed correctly.
I am trying to use the SSE2/SSE3 versions of the dll's, and the MT.dll avisynth one, but can't seem to get it working right.
Wether I use the MT(....) or the SetMTMode syntax, I get an error in the script...

"no function called LimitedSharpen....."

But I copied the LimitedSharpen.avs+LimitedSupport.dll into the plugins dir ..so why isn't it recognised?

I am running Xp64 if that makes any difference..

[Jermmd]

Try writing limitedsharpenfaster rather than limitedsharpen.

[-.-PhanTom-.-]

Hmmm no I get "MT does not have a named argument avisynthTS...." ...hmmm

Wether I use LimitedSharpen or LimitedSharpenFaster in argument doesn't make a diff, same error message

[-.-PhanTom-.-]

Ahh...seem to got it working now, with MT even :)

[Andy Lammer]

On the subject of HQDN3D I find the value of 3 too much.
It looks as if it is "over-averaging" and giving a subtle blotchy look.
My screen is a 104" wide Silverstar ( gain = 6 ) which may aid in seeing flaws more.

A value of 1 is not enough for me, while 2 looks just fine .
Of course, all of our setups are different, dll versions, etc.

- Andy

[scotty144]

My HTPC just doesn't have enough grunt to use limited sharpen, denoise and resize.

Plus, I have never been able to find a de-noiser that seems to work right for me.

So, I am just using limitedsharpen and resizing 2x by lanczos4.

Are there any other denoising options that perform well with a low hit on cpu cycles?

[Eopian]

-.-PhanTom-.-
What did you do to get rid of the error?

[Mr.Bitey]

Good to hear PhanTom,

Just for anyone else in the same situation:
Limitedsharpenfaster does not need limitedsupport (its built into the later versions on masktools). With MT05 you need to remove the 'avisynthts' parameter from the end of the call. If you do not specifically load limitedsharpenfaster you need to ensure its extension is .avsi


So Phantom - what do you think? :-) any stuttering issues?
Cheers,
Bitey

[-.-PhanTom-.-]

Good to hear PhanTom,

Just for anyone else in the same situation:
Limitedsharpenfaster does not need limitedsupport (its built into the later versions on masktools). With MT05 you need to remove the 'avisynthts' parameter from the end of the call. If you do not specifically load limitedsharpenfaster you need to ensure its extension is .avsi


So Phantom - what do you think? :-) any stuttering issues?
Cheers,
Bitey

Thnx for clearing that up.
I will have to go and re-check all my settings to make sure they actually work as they should...

I find it a bit hard to actually SEE the difference on my "old" 32' Widescreen CRT 100Mhz TV.... guess the best way to see image differences would be to take still images and compare them?
How do people do that?

Also, I am not sure I have yet gotten the best possible picture/resolution I can with my CRT TV... currently using s-video...but will get VGA->SCART soon and hope that will improve the quality of the feed....
Resolutionwise I am still a bit unsure...currently using 720x576...

I am using MediePoretal as HTPC frontend, and have not yet decided which DVD player and codec to use....
1) Theatertek
2) WinDVD7
3) PowerDVD6

And then to configure them to work inside MediaPortal with my iMon remote...oh fun, oh joy... -lots of setting to play with ;)

[Eopian]

I’ve been using Limited Sharpen since the sse2 ffdshow became supported. I was looking to keep up with all of your updates (this is a very large thread). After a couple of hours reading this thread here is what I’ve done:

1. Install Avisynth 2.5.6a
2. Download masktools-v2.0a28
3. Download MT_05-02 (the -02 may be because I dl’d it twice) (Date Jan 15, 2006 on plugins)
4. Downloaded recommended plugins from Socio’s webguide
5. Cleared plugins folder
6. Installed the following into my plugins folder: hqdn3d.dll, mt_masktools.dll, WarpSharp.dll, RemoveGrainSSE2.dll, RepairSSE2.dll, LimitedSharpenFast.avsi, RSharpenSSE2.dll, avisynth.dll (also in system32, do I need it here?), DenoiseSharpen.dll, MT.dll

The software I’m using is: Zoomplayer Pro (VRM9), DScaler Codecs, and FFDShow.

The hardware I’m running is: Abit IS7 (865) Mobo, Intel 3.2EE Northwood (technically, really it’s a gallatin) @ 3.58 (224 fsb), 1 GB ram, and old gf4 MX440 (for the time being, my gf4 ti 4600 randomly died so I ordered a 6600GT, will be here soon), for now movies are just displayed on my monitor, when I get the new gfx card working, I’ll be displaying it on my 30” Toshiba HDTV.

In FFDShow I’m running:

Denoise 3d – luma .5, chroma .5, time 5.00 HQ (checked)
Avisynth with Add ffdshow video source and YV12 checked, with this in the blank space:

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)")

Playing just like this I get CPU utilization in the mid thirties – amazing! Am I using the most effective setup? Also, would resizing be most effective before or after avisynth and denoise?

Thanks

[Jeremy Duncan]

Somebody give my guide a go.

[Jermmd]

I haven't had any success with limitedsharpen so far. Either I get stutter and sound problems or I don't see improvement over my original FFDShow settings. I think I may be using the wrong SSE version for my processor. How can I confirm the SSE capabilities of my 2.8ghz P4 processor?

[-.-PhanTom-.-]

I haven't had any success with limitedsharpen so far. Either I get stutter and sound problems or I don't see improvement over my original FFDShow settings. I think I may be using the wrong SSE version for my processor. How can I confirm the SSE capabilities of my 2.8ghz P4 processor?

Get CPU-Z - it will show you which instruction sets your CPU supports
http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php

[Jermmd]

-.-Phantom-.-,

Thanks. Great program and exactly what I needed. My processor has SSE2 processing.

[adrianmak]

I followed Socio's instructions on page 1 , adding
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")
LimitedSharpen(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)

in ffdshow config

but I don't know how to use it to playback dvd to see the result

[jman311]

I am about to rebuild my HTPC (doing an OS reinstall). I read that some recommend disabling hyper-threading as it can actually hinder ffdshow when enabled, but I also was wanting to try out using limitsharpen w/ avisynth, and in the online guide I see there are instructions on how to configure it to take advantage of multithreading.

I want to get the BIOS setting right before I reinstall my OS. Can anyone confirm the hit to ffdshow resizing/sharpening from having HT enabled? How much of an advantage can be gained using HT with the avisynth/limitsharpen method?

BTW I have a P4 3.2Ghz CPU.

[mikesusangray]

How much of an advantage can be gained using HT with the avisynth/limitsharpen method?


I have a 2.8 gig machine, and I get better results using HT with MT("...") than I do with HT turned off and no MT. I think, anyway. Since I haven't actually made a scientific study of this, I could be wrong. I did make a point of using the exact same settings except for the HT/MT thing.

* * * * *

BTW, Something I have discovered: I'm getting excellent results on my 2.8 gig machine with the following script (on fairly clean PAL material):

bicubicresize(1024,576)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=200, overshoot=7)")
MT("mergeluma( removegrain(2,-1), 0.25 )")

Before I added the resize prior to limitedsharpen, I had noticed that even a fairly modest strength number (say, 60) gave me jaggies on lines that are just a bit off the vertical or horizontal (I posted a screenie a few pages back).

I quickly noticed that resizing before sharpening fixes the jaggies problem; however, since I haven't juiced my machine up into the 4+ range, I was able to get it to run with some other values I've seen in this thread.

To my surprise, however, that very small resize works perfectly. I then raise sharpen strength to about 200 and everything is wonderful.

Peace,

Mike

[Mr.Bitey]

Jman,

Leave HT on to install the OS. You can then turn it on/off in the bios afterwards as you please. From memory I do not think you can turn it off, install the OS then turn it on again - the OS doesnt install the right HAL.

With the MT enabled LSF - you'd probably get better results leaving it on. Leaving it also lets windows do other 'stuff' in the background (like decoding your dvd).. All system are a bit different - you can always try it out with HT on, and HT off and see which one gives you better results.

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

mike,

Interesting result! - are you letting your video card scale to another resolution?

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

Scotty,

The mergeluma (you'll see it on socio's site, or used in scripts posted a few posts ago) is a quicker denoiser - but ive found can cause jaggies.

You could try gradual denoise in ffdshow on a low setting, it use a low setting on (like 0.5) on hqdn3d but thats a pretty greedy denoiser (in terms of cpu)..

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

adrianmak,

It depends on your dvd player (zoomplayer, mpc etc) as to how you get dvd's working.

Jeremy has posted some guides with regard to MPC and ffdshow (seperate thread) - they should get you started. There are also some guides on running zoomplayer, dscaler and ffdshow (do a search on topics - i dont have the link bookedmarked) - to which you then add in the limitedsharpenfaster stuff.

Get your dvd software player working with ffdshow first then add in lsf.

Cheers,
Bitey

[mikesusangray]

Interesting result! - are you letting your video card scale to another resolution?

Hey, Bitey. Yes, it *is* interesting. If you go back to page 26 of this thread you'll see the jaggies I've been getting - and they suddenly disappear with this new variation.

Anyway, the picture looks fine. I've tried it on my LCD at 1280:720 and on my projector at 1024:576 and it looks good both ways.

An odd thing about this is that PAL resolution is 720 by 576. Hence, I'm not actually changing the verticle resolution, only the horizontal (from 720 to 1024). What I don't understand is how the 576 actually works on a 16:9 movie. 1024:576 is a 16:9 ration; 720:576 is even closer to a square than 4:3 (the ratios are, apparently, 1.77, 1.33, 1.25).

This leads to a theory: I think that LSF is having some trouble calculating the original size of the PAL film stream, adn that this is alleviated by resizing. The PAL stream seems to be carrying non-square pixels, and they are confusing LSF, leading to jaggies. By resizing to 1024:576, LSF is getting squares.

One thing is for sure: no post-LSF resize helped the problem at all, it just slowed the computer down. And adding massive amounts of smoothing masked the jaggies some, but also took a lot out of the picture.

One final thing: I don't like the hq3d denoiser any more, at leat on quality DVD material. It just seems to harsh to me.

Mike

[Mr.Bitey]

Hi Mike,

Mmm interesting indeed... if it wasnt 4:30am here i'd go and do some testing... :-) im resizing to 1776x1000 but after - I was never able to rezie before... if only I could get rid of the wife and kids tomorrow (today) LOL

Cheers,
Bitey

[Jeremy Duncan]

adrianmak,

Jeremy has posted some guides with regard to MPC and ffdshow (seperate thread) - they should get you started.
Link to Guides (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667061)

[zambelli]

An odd thing about this is that PAL resolution is 720 by 576. Hence, I'm not actually changing the verticle resolution, only the horizontal (from 720 to 1024). What I don't understand is how the 576 actually works on a 16:9 movie. 1024:576 is a 16:9 ration; 720:576 is even closer to a square than 4:3 (the ratios are, apparently, 1.77, 1.33, 1.25).

This leads to a theory: I think that LSF is having some trouble calculating the original size of the PAL film stream, adn that this is alleviated by resizing. The PAL stream seems to be carrying non-square pixels, and they are confusing LSF, leading to jaggies. By resizing to 1024:576, LSF is getting squares.
That makes sense. Since all DVDs use non-square pixels (720x480|576), they need to be resized to square pixels at some point during playback. This is typically done by the video renderer (VMR in most cases). However, in order for this to work, the renderer needs to know what the intended DAR of the video is. Ordinarily this bit of information is sent from the decoder to the renderer in the graph. When you insert ffdshow+avisynth into the graph between the MPEG-2 decoder and the video renderer, you lose this aspect ratio information. Resizing to square pixels works around this problem.

[jorsan]

Maybe a silly question but need you help guys:
I downloaded already all the plugins that are recomended in this threath but when I play a movie ( with zoomplayer+ffdshow) I have a legend in the middle of the screen that readss:
"scrip error there is no funtion named limitedsharpen
(ffdshow_filter_avishyn_scrip_line 3)" . . . .
could yoyu help me?
By the way, I download the text mentoned in the second post here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84196 and add it under file name "limitedsharpen. avs" . After that, in ffdshow under "avisynth" I add this two lines:
" Import("C:\Program Files\ffdshow\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")

LimitedSharpen(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)" (I have the avishynth 2.5 inside ffdshow)

Could you help me please? Im anxious to finish with all this settings and start to play with my projector. Before of post this message, I've tried hard but my computing knowledge is not very high as you can see. Thanks

[mikesusangray]

Maybe a silly question but need you help guys:
I downloaded already all the plugins that are recomended in this threath but when I play a movie ( with zoomplayer+ffdshow) I have a legend in the middle of the screen that readss:
"scrip error there is no funtion named limitedsharpen
(ffdshow_filter_avishyn_scrip_line 3)" . . . .
could yoyu help me?
By the way, I download the text mentoned in the second post here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84196 and add it under file name "limitedsharpen. avs" . After that, in ffdshow under "avisynth" I add this two lines:
" Import("C:\Program Files\ffdshow\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")

LimitedSharpen(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)" (I have the avishynth 2.5 inside ffdshow)

Could you help me please? Im anxious to finish with all this settings and start to play with my projector. Before of post this message, I've tried hard but my computing knowledge is not very high as you can see. Thanks

Your script isn't getting loaded.

There are a few ways to fix this, but the easiest is this: just rename the file "limitedsharpen.avs" "limitedsharpen.avsi." Adding the "i" will cause the script to load automatically.

Peace,

Mike

[egandt]

I've been playing with Limitedsharpenfaster within ffdshow for a few days now and the results are very good, now I have a dual Core system (AMD 4600+), and I want to spread around the load, since I also am using the hqdn3d filter.
Since its dual core I wanted to spread the load, using the MT plugin, Ive tried both
SetMTmode(2) and MT("string") modes and I've found that the CPU load on th first core (the one used by everything), oes up by about 12% when I turn on MT, on the second core the CPU goes from 12% to 33%, so it is distrubiting the load, but why am I seeing no improvement on the first core (core 0 CPU normally is about 72% and goes to 85% when MT is on).

Is this normal?
ERIC

[mikesusangray]

I've been playing with Limitedsharpenfaster within ffdshow for a few days now and the results are very good, now I have a dual Core system (AMD 4600+), and I want to spread around the load, since I also am using the hqdn3d filter.
Since its dual core I wanted to spread the load, using the MT plugin, Ive tried both
SetMTmode(2) and MT("string") modes and I've found that the CPU load on th first core (the one used by everything), oes up by about 12% when I turn on MT, on the second core the CPU goes from 12% to 33%, so it is distrubiting the load, but why am I seeing no improvement on the first core (core 0 CPU normally is about 72% and goes to 85% when MT is on).


Have another look through this thread as well as the following thread over at doom9 forums:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94996

Since I only have a HT system (which does work with the MT thing), I'm not particularly informed on this, but from what I've seen, I don't believe the MT command works on dual core systems. I seem to recall seeing quite q few messages like yours. Presumably, though, the MT command *should* work on dualies - one of the programmer types just needs to tinker with it some more.

Mike

[Mr.Bitey]

MT will work with dual processors/dual-core, maybe not perfectly (ie a 50:50 split) but it will work and you will get some benefit :-) but a lot of the cpu time is used in resizing - which cannot be used with MT..

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

Out of interested I switched to overlay (from vmr9 renderless) and seem to have less stuttering.. I'll have to watch some titles through to tell for sure..

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

Just me again (LOL)..

Has anyone experimented with using the dest_x,dest_y parameters to avoid doing an unecessary(?) resize after or before?

Ive been doing some re-reading over on doom9 about lsf/iip and saw a reference (by Didee) about using this parameter to avoid an unnecessary resize step after lsf..

Just some food for thaught.. I'll test this tonight if I get a chance and report back.

Cheers,
Bitey

[mikesusangray]

Just me again (LOL)..

Has anyone experimented with using the dest_x,dest_y parameters to avoid doing an unecessary(?) resize after or before?

Ive been doing some re-reading over on doom9 about lsf/iip and saw a reference (by Didee) about using this parameter to avoid an unnecessary resize step after lsf..


I have - but since I use MT(), I can't use those parameters. IT *would* be nice if somone could come up with a version of MT that would support resizing , though ...

Mike

[Mr.Bitey]

Hi Mike,

I wonder then if its qucker to forget MT and have LSF do the resize given a lot of CPU time is used in the final resize anyway..

My head is hurting a bit trying to figure out how MT/LSF can work with SS (resizing) yet wont work with dest_x,dest_y ? I havent tried it - does it give an error or just crap-out ?

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

Update:

dest_x,dest_y dont work with MT (error - which I remember now :-) and ends up being slower (alot) than running MT then doing a resize in ffdshow.

Overlay is allowing a much higher strength/overshoot settings for LSF before stuttering - I watched pirates of the carabean lastnight with S100 and overshoot 7, I was also running hqdn3d(0.0,2,0.0,4) [only denoising chroma) - and only noticed 4 or 5 minor sutters (and only on scene changes (possibly chapter points)) running from an ISO file. This looked a bit oversharp to me, but did look really nice anyway as a change! - very sharp, very detailed especially in areas of slow movemenet or statics - maybe a touch nervious tho (maybe soothe would help here)

LOTR SE running from DVD - same settings - bad chop in some panning scenes.. Wound it back to 80 and it was better but still not perfect I think 60 would have been fine (I didnt try it - too tired ;) .. So it seems if your overlay PQ is OK then it might be the way to go for running LSF with higher settings / reducing chop/stutters - if this is indeed whats causing them!!

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

Me again, for a change.

Ive solved it - at least on my system!

I can run hddn3d (0.5,2,0.5,4), LSF with strength 110, overshoot7 and Lan2 resize to 1776x1000 (after, however). No stutters, no chop.

Overlay got me part way there, however I recall I enabled all of the video cards anti-aliasing and anthripic (or something) somehing or other (all the fancy 3d smoothers) under quality settings under the 3d tab (Ati CCC) to get rid of tearing.. Setting all these to the 'performance' end of the slider (or their absolute minumum setting) has gotten rid of my stutters/chop!

Now I know overlay isnt as good as VMR9, but I can live with that for the added benefits of LSF and hqdn3d! - im back to enjoying movies again rather than watching for problems.

Cheers,
Bitey

[adrianmak]

I’ve been using Limited Sharpen since the sse2 ffdshow became supported. I was looking to keep up with all of your updates (this is a very large thread). After a couple of hours reading this thread here is what I’ve done:

1. Install Avisynth 2.5.6a
2. Download masktools-v2.0a28
3. Download MT_05-02 (the -02 may be because I dl’d it twice) (Date Jan 15, 2006 on plugins)
4. Downloaded recommended plugins from Socio’s webguide
5. Cleared plugins folder
6. Installed the following into my plugins folder: hqdn3d.dll, mt_masktools.dll, WarpSharp.dll, RemoveGrainSSE2.dll, RepairSSE2.dll, LimitedSharpenFast.avsi, RSharpenSSE2.dll, avisynth.dll (also in system32, do I need it here?), DenoiseSharpen.dll, MT.dll

The software I’m using is: Zoomplayer Pro (VRM9), DScaler Codecs, and FFDShow.

The hardware I’m running is: Abit IS7 (865) Mobo, Intel 3.2EE Northwood (technically, really it’s a gallatin) @ 3.58 (224 fsb), 1 GB ram, and old gf4 MX440 (for the time being, my gf4 ti 4600 randomly died so I ordered a 6600GT, will be here soon), for now movies are just displayed on my monitor, when I get the new gfx card working, I’ll be displaying it on my 30” Toshiba HDTV.

In FFDShow I’m running:

Denoise 3d – luma .5, chroma .5, time 5.00 HQ (checked)
Avisynth with Add ffdshow video source and YV12 checked, with this in the blank space:

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)")

Playing just like this I get CPU utilization in the mid thirties – amazing! Am I using the most effective setup? Also, would resizing be most effective before or after avisynth and denoise?

Thanks

why to clear the plugin folder ?

[Mr.Bitey]

I think just incase youve got some incompatable plugins there and were using an older version of avisynth.

The newer version 2.5.5 (it think it is) autloads any plugins in that plugins folder - sometimes these get picky about order and you can run into problems (all the LSF ones are ok tho)..

Cheers,
Bitey

[bennynihon]

Hi,

I've tried using the MT Avisynth plugin on WinXP x64 (64-bit version) and it seems to crash my system. Has anyone had success using this plugin with x64? Or does anyone know how to contact the author of the plugin?

Thank you.

[Mr.Bitey]

bennynihon,

You can contact the author ("TSP") over on the doom9.org forums. There is a thread here supporting MT:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94996

Cheers,
Bitey

[belgacom]

there is no more icon of ffdirectshow when i play movie in media player classic.
now when i play mpeg file the only filter decoder is from microsoft.
how can change that to ffdshow
i have storem codec pack

[BoomerBrian]

There was a mirror to socio's site which was still alive - there are some links to it back some.. Looks like socio's site is back: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/ffdshowGuides/adv.html

Cheers,
Bitey

Anyone know what happen to this guide? I have been trying to get to it for a couple of weeks with no luck.

[Mr.Bitey]

BoomerBrian,

Did you check the mirror? im unsure if its dead also..

Is there something in particular thats giving you grief? - Jeremy duncan's guide(s) sticky (top of this sub-forum) isnt a bad starting spot (although i my personal taste differs to some of the settings :)

Cheers,
Bitey

[BoomerBrian]

BoomerBrian,

Did you check the mirror? im unsure if its dead also..

Is there something in particular thats giving you grief? - Jeremy duncan's guide(s) sticky (top of this sub-forum) isnt a bad starting spot (although i my personal taste differs to some of the settings :)

Cheers,
Bitey


Hello Bitey,

I was unaware about the URL for the mirror.

There is nothing really giving me grief. I just wanted to read through that site again. Before I rebuilt my computer I was using the settings from that site. I am now using the settings from Jermery Duncan's guide. It seems to me that the PQ looked better with my previous settings but I am unsure. I was just going to try and set it up like I had it so I can compare.

Here are my current settings after reading Jeremy's guide. I am using Resize and AviSynth.

Any suggestions are welcome.


SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=70,o vershoot=7)")


2x Resize
Lancos 2

[Mr.Bitey]

I'll dig my settings out for you.. cant at the moment, the batteries in my wireless mouse have died and im waiting for them to recharge (sigh) :-)

Cheers,
Bitey

[Mr.Bitey]

Heres my settings, these are my normal settings - I leave these on for 95% of the dvd's I watch.

zoomplayer settings:
video decoder: dscaler5007 decoder - output space yv12; no analog blanking
audio decoder: ac3filter 0.70
audio renderer: reclock 1.6
video renderer: overlay mixer
additional filters: ffdshow RAW video processor
setvideo colourspace: yv12
dvd navigator: microsoft dvd navigator

FFDSHOW settings (andys sse2 preview build: ffdshow-20040801a_preview_SSE2.exe)

Avisynth:
MT("hqdn3d(0.5,2,0.5,4)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=4,strength=100, overshoot=7)
")

Resize&Aspect:
Resize ticked
specify size: 1776x1000
Resize always: radio-button-selected
aspect ratio: no aspect ratio correction (radio button)
Settings:
Method: Lanczos
Parameter: 2
Luma sharpen: 0
Chroma Sharpen: 0

Output:
yv12 - all others deselected

Thats about it I think...

EDIT: Included lanczos resise settings (which I forgot :)

Cheers,
Bitey

[BoomerBrian]

Thanks Mr. Bitey. I will do some tweaking tonight and get back with you.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Try overshoot=1

[Mr.Bitey]

Ive tried a lot of settings and I settled on 7 for some reason :) (cant remember why now).. Im viewing on a HD CRT RPTV, so a little extra overshoot doesnt do too much harm (just blends in) - if your viewing on a digital display - it might be more pronounced. 7 is pretty low really (its like 9% extra on the top and bottom ends)..

Im going to have a play around with soothe too - see if I can get the image a little more stable..

Cheers,
Bitey

[ORPhD]

I know the original post on LimitedSharpen over at Doom9 says it is, but here's my situation.

95% of what I watch is recent (or recently restored) Hollywood movies. That means I'm almost always watching clean or even pristine transfers. I've seen posts here about how denoising can actually eliminate detail in such instances (fog scenes in LOTR for example). So is there something I'm failing to consider by not using one first? (For reference, I have seen how it helps on older stuff since I did test one with Princess Bride.)

[Mr.Bitey]

ORPhD,

You dont have to use a denoiser, but if you dont then you can risk sharpening the noise = wasting CPU and making the picture look worse. You should also use a light denoiser after sharpening to reduce/remove some sharpening artifacts.

Give it a shot without a denoiser and see how it looks :-).. You could always use a tiny bit of denoising to take the edge of the noise prior to sharpening.

Cheers,
Bitey

[scotty144]

Mr. Bitey

Can you reccomend some denoising options for me, My system (P4 2.4) I can get away with 3d noise reduction...no HD, limited sharpenfaster and 2x resize (Lanczos 4....although I sometimes lean towards bicubic, I find it a little less noisy).

Is there a particular denoiser I couild call up in avisynth that I could try after sharpening that won't be too cpu taxing.

thanx,


Scott

[Mr.Bitey]

Scott,

With a 2.4 your really going to find it hard to run two denoisers that would actually do anything :) unless you overclock it :) I have enough trouble with my ~3.5 (3.44)..

I'd forget denoising after sharpening (I dont run it on mine).. rather concentrate on denoise prior to sharpening (and prior to resizing).. there are some threads earlier that use mergeluma - that is less cpu intensive (but I found it introduces jaggies)... you could try that one with some low settings. Alternatively use gradial denoise in ffdshow at a low setting.

Drop back to Lanczos 2 if you want to use Lanczos (4 can introduce more ringing and is more cpu intensive).

What are your settings at the moment, including order?

Cheers,
Bitey

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

I know the original post on LimitedSharpen over at Doom9 says it is, but here's my situation.

95% of what I watch is recent (or recently restored) Hollywood movies. That means I'm almost always watching clean or even pristine transfers. I've seen posts here about how denoising can actually eliminate detail in such instances (fog scenes in LOTR for example). So is there something I'm failing to consider by not using one first? (For reference, I have seen how it helps on older stuff since I did test one with Princess Bride.)
At first I used to like denoisers until I started noticing that it removes the smalles detail so at that point denoisers are not part of my processing unless its something really really old and noisy. Most new movies dont need it anyway.

[Sinobi]

I haven't used denoisers at any point (except for testing), no matter if using mid to highend digital projectors or CRT projectors. I always find it removes too much detail.
But it is also highly dependant on what decoder you use. I found the old PowerDVD decoder to enhance noise, and that together with LS and later LSF gave increased noise.... choose the best decoder from the beginning and you might not need a denoiser.

Henrik

[scotty144]

Bitey,

Current settings are...

Zoom Player using Dscaler codec, denoise 3d 0.78,0.78 time 5.05 (No HQ....CPU can't handle it) , LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=55,o vershoot=7, Lanczos Resize 1440,960, I will try paramater 2...thanx for the tip.

I have played around with a few different denoisers that I found on the Doom site but haven't found one I like yet...usually I don't have enough juice to run them.

I believe I tried mergeluma but I kept getting error messages. How do you call that up in avisynth?

Thanx for your help.


Scott

[scotty144]

Well as much as I want to I just don't like the results of Lanczos resize...at any parameter. It just introduces too much grain and noise for my taste. Also, by using Bicubic I am abale to use a stronger setting on Limited Sharpen. Everytime I tried to increase sharpening with Lanczos I got lots of jaggies. Anyone else experiencing this?

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Well as much as I want to I just don't like the results of Lanczos resize...at any parameter. It just introduces too much grain and noise for my taste. Also, by using Bicubic I am abale to use a stronger setting on Limited Sharpen. Everytime I tried to increase sharpening with Lanczos I got lots of jaggies. Anyone else experiencing this?
I was never able to full use Limited Sharpen due to some strange artifacts created by it. I remember some other members seeing the same thing. Perhaps new scripts, video card and drivers will work now so which is the Limited Sharpen script you are using now and which downloads do I need...I am guessing the older ones I got arent up to date anymore.

[Jarretth]

Maybe I don't fully understand this...

I was using LimitedSharpen for Live TV in YV12 mode like the guide said. When I try to use it on DVDs in YV12 it does nothing. I checked the input under info & debug (ffdshow) and it says YUY2 when I am watching a DVD.

Should my avisynth with limitedsharpen be YV12 or YUY2? Can I use that ColorMatrix plugin no problem too?

[BangoO]

Has anyone tried LimitedSharpenFaster on 1280*720 @ 23.976fps sources ?
I have an X2 3800+ o/ced to 2500Mhz and I'm at around 53-54% CPU use, and as it is not multithreaded, it means my cpu is too slow :(

Anyway to use LimitedSharpenFaster multithreaded ?
Or maybe I just missed some parameters that could make it run faster...

Thx ;)

[ORPhD]

Maybe I don't fully understand this...

I was using LimitedSharpen for Live TV in YV12 mode like the guide said. When I try to use it on DVDs in YV12 it does nothing. I checked the input under info & debug (ffdshow) and it says YUY2 when I am watching a DVD.

Should my avisynth with limitedsharpen be YV12 or YUY2? Can I use that ColorMatrix plugin no problem too?

My initial guess is that you are using different codecs for each with the DVD codec is outputting YUY2.

[Mr.Bitey]

Scotty144,

Im pretty sure that with some versions of ffdshow settings under 1.0 are negated (become 0) and this are not used... eg. 0.78 actually is interpereted as 0 and thus isnt applied (only in some versions of ffdshow). Sharpening with lanczos isnt as 'nice' a sharpener as LSF... I used to sharpen with lanczos4 resize.. but prefer setting this to 0 now and letting LSF do the work. I'll try to find the script for mergeluma - like I said earlier (i think) i found it made too many jaggies for my liking.

Luis Gabriel Gerena,
Jeremy Duncan's sticky has the links to all the versions you'll need - its at the top of the htpc sub-forum thread-list.

Jarretth,
Dscaler is a bit naughty (and im assuming your using dscaler in your app), sometimes it says its YUY2 when you look at it offline (no video playing) and in the filter-properties (whilst playing) it can say YV12. Just change it in real-time and you should be ok.. if you tell ffdshow to only accept YV12 input then you should get an error when you feed it YUY2 (if dscaler isnt outputting YV12). You can use colourmatrix if you want (ive never seen the need personally). From memory LSF uses (well some functions inside lsf) YV12 so if you can avoid a conversion (ie. get dscaler to output yv12) you save some cpu cycles not needing to do a colour-spaceconversion. If its working, and your seeing video - then some function/filter is doing a conversion for you - if you wernt in the right colour space, you'd get a filter connection error, badly corrupted video or no video :)

BangoO,
Not really following you post that well.. You can use MT to speed up LSF on multithreading/multicpu machines... There was also a version of ffdshow that was supposed to support multithreading (so you didnt need MT) - it crashed my system when I tried to use it - maybe you'll have some more luck (search for it - there is a post by jeremy duncan on it).

Cheers,
Bitey

[Kubrick19]

Jeremy posted this from what Owen stated:

"Deinterlacing

Unfortunately the deinterlacers in FFDShow are either not very good, or are so CPU intensive, that they are unusable, especially for 1080i.
If deinterlacing is required, it is advisable to use a decoder that supports deinterlacing in hardware. (Nvidia)
That will require the decoder to run in DXVA mode, which means that FFDShow cannot be used.
The use of FFDShow in the replay chain forces software decode mode on all decoders.
IMHO the advantages of hardware deinterlacing out way any advantages resulting from the use of FFDShow.
In fact, current video cards have improved to the point where there is no longer a pressing need for FFDShow, and many people will be quite happy without it."

Can I please get some help setting up my 7900gt with purevideo and using that to deinterlace 1080i film source, I'd like to it with media player classic. I am familiar with the zoomplayer/dcalser/ffdshow/avisynth for 720p playback but for 1080i I need something with better results. I am not sure what other programs to use or how to setup purevideo with mpc to achieve the best results, thanks for any help.

Kind regards,

Drew

[koach]

Has anyone tried LimitedSharpenFaster on 1280*720 @ 23.976fps sources ?
I have an X2 3800+ o/ced to 2500Mhz and I'm at around 53-54% CPU use, and as it is not multithreaded, it means my cpu is too slow :(

Anyway to use LimitedSharpenFaster multithreaded ?
Or maybe I just missed some parameters that could make it run faster...

Thx ;)

This is how I have it set up:

SetMTMode(2)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)")


Just have to make sure you have the right versions of MaskTools, MT, and RemoveGrain. And of course your CPU needs to be dual core.

[Mr.Bitey]

koach,

The cpu doesnt need to be dual core, at a minimum it does need hyperthreading..

So the requirements for MT to work properly (ie you get some benefit from it :) are:
-Hyperthreading CPU
-Dual Core CPU
-Dual (or more) CPU's

Cheers,
Bitey

[koach]

koach,

The cpu doesnt need to be dual core, at a minimum it does need hyperthreading..

So the requirements for MT to work properly (ie you get some benefit from it :) are:
-Hyperthreading CPU
-Dual Core CPU
-Dual (or more) CPU's

Cheers,
Bitey

gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

[dwellingheresy]

Hi there everybody,
just got my new PC (P5WDh, E6300, 7900GTX) and am looking for a new setup.
My preferred Player is Theatertek and I just started using FDDShow... but only very basic Setup...
...since the PC is just new, at the moment I'd much rather just enjoy it for a couple of weeks than spend ages of tinkering around (I will get to that in a few weeks).

So what would be a good starting setaup for Theatertek - as you can see from my rig: power is no problem ;-)

Right now I am just using resize 3x, Lancos and some Postprocessing...

...Avisynth sounds interesting...

A Quickguide and some Settings, just something where I think "Wow, that looks better than before, but I might want to change XXX in a couple of weeks" would be sooooooo apreciated!!

What Programs/ Plugins should I get? What settings should I apply? What order should the Filters have?

Please: help someone to skip the tinkering for a couple of weeks and just enjoy his new rig :-)

Regards

Steffen

[BoomerBrian]

Hi there everybody,
just got my new PC (P5WDh, E6300, 7900GTX) and am looking for a new setup.
My preferred Player is Theatertek and I just started using FDDShow... but only very basic Setup...
...since the PC is just new, at the moment I'd much rather just enjoy it for a couple of weeks than spend ages of tinkering around (I will get to that in a few weeks).

So what would be a good starting setaup for Theatertek - as you can see from my rig: power is no problem ;-)

Right now I am just using resize 3x, Lancos and some Postprocessing...

...Avisynth sounds interesting...

A Quickguide and some Settings, just something where I think "Wow, that looks better than before, but I might want to change XXX in a couple of weeks" would be sooooooo apreciated!!

What Programs/ Plugins should I get? What settings should I apply? What order should the Filters have?

Please: help someone to skip the tinkering for a couple of weeks and just enjoy his new rig :-)

Regards

Steffen

Start here. Jeremy Duncan's Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667061)

Just follow the instructions for the avisynth and ffdshow. You can skip the rest since you are using Theatretek.

[scotty144]

Scott,

With a 2.4 your really going to find it hard to run two denoisers that would actually do anything :) unless you overclock it :) I have enough trouble with my ~3.5 (3.44)..

I'd forget denoising after sharpening (I dont run it on mine).. rather concentrate on denoise prior to sharpening (and prior to resizing).. there are some threads earlier that use mergeluma - that is less cpu intensive (but I found it introduces jaggies)... you could try that one with some low settings. Alternatively use gradial denoise in ffdshow at a low setting.

Drop back to Lanczos 2 if you want to use Lanczos (4 can introduce more ringing and is more cpu intensive).

What are your settings at the moment, including order?

Cheers,
Bitey

Well with more research and playing around I have finally solved my denoise issue. I am now using standard denoise 3d ...0 luma,3 chroma, 6 time and also can now enable HQ. Apparently using whole numbers gives me a little more cpu headroom.

Also able to resize 2x with Lanczos 2 and Limited Sharpen..although I use a much milder setting of 30...I have tried higher but it just looks overblown...maybe it has to do with my rather large screen (133") and 14' seating distance.

Anyways, thanx for your help Bitey I am finally satisfied with my settings...for now.

BTW, has anyone experimented with the new SeeSaw sharpening fuction?

[joeuser2]

Yes...9 FPS using an AMD64 3000! Went back to LSF...

[dwellingheresy]

Hi there,
so I just got around following Duncan's Guide.

One Question in Advance: should I unpack both of the Removegrain folders into the Plugin Folder, or just the one File "removegrainsse3.dll"?

...tried both, didn't make a difference...?!

So my setup now is just Lancos Resize and Avisynth with Multithreading.....
....well the picture is good... but the Speed isn't actually smooth...
...to be clear it looks like around 15fps....?!?!

I am using FFDshow-20060803-SSE and the files I got from the links in the guide.

Working on the problem I installed reclock (which says it doesn't support my Graphics Card... didn't really want to use another program anyway), I changed resize from 3 down to 2, I changed Graphics Card settings from highest 8xAA and 16xAF down to 2xAA and 8xAF....
....but it all didn't help...

Suggestions, please....

Greets

Steffen




EDIT: I just tried some other stuff: reducing Graphics settings to absolute minimum seems to help, but PQ is way worse than, and also still minor studder.
I then OC my E6300 (from 1,86 to 2,8 ;-) ) and now it seems to run fine, but still about 75% CPU-Usage.... am I doing something wrong or is fddshow+avisynth+lancos THIS MUCH performance hungry??? I mean: an Intel Core2Duo at 2,8 Ghz with 7900GTX is pretty much the fastest rig you can buy at the moment.... and still 75% ??? Would need an overclocked E6800 and SLI for below 50%....

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

What was your pc gear again?
Right now I am liking this settings for "most" movies but keep in mind that some movies look better with slightly different settings or even seesaw.

SetMTMode(2)


MT("HQDN3D(2)")

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=200,wide=true, overshoot=0)")


I like how it brings out detail without showing artifacts at least for me. I played with LSF for a while yesterday and today I will play with seesaw.
Regards


BTW For Removegrain I took the shortcut and just deleted the originial removegrain and renamed the ss3 version to removegrain so that I didnt have to change any scripts.

[dwellingheresy]

Hi Luis,
(I hope you were talking to me)...
My setup:
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Core2Duo E6300 (preferably without overclocking)
Sparkle 7900GTX (Driver: 91.31)
2x512MB Corsair XMS
Windows XP SP2
Theatertek
Klite 2.75

I use these configs:
(Version B from the guide)
ffdshow (FFDshow-20060803-SSE)
all "removegrain" files in the SSE3 Version (without renaming them, I just deleted everything else)
Resize & Aspect
- Resize Checked
- Multiply by 2.000 (Or 3.000)
- Resize Always
- No aspect ratio correction
Resize & Aspect Settings tab
- Luma Meathod: Lanczos
- Parameter 2.00
- Luma Sharpen 0.00

Avisynth
- Avisynth Checked
- Add ffdshow video source Checked
- Input Colorspaces: YV12 Checked

SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)")

Output via DVI to Sony HS60 (1280x720 in 50/60Hz)


Regards

Steffen

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Hi Luis,
(I hope you were talking to me)...
My setup:
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Core2Duo E6300 (preferably without overclocking)
Sparkle 7900GTX (Driver: 91.31)
2x512MB Corsair XMS
Windows XP SP2
Theatertek
Klite 2.75

I use these configs:
(Version B from the guide)
ffdshow (FFDshow-20060803-SSE)
all "removegrain" files in the SSE3 Version (without renaming them, I just deleted everything else)
Resize & Aspect
- Resize Checked
- Multiply by 2.000 (Or 3.000)
- Resize Always
- No aspect ratio correction
Resize & Aspect Settings tab
- Luma Meathod: Lanczos
- Parameter 2.00
- Luma Sharpen 0.00

Avisynth
- Avisynth Checked
- Add ffdshow video source Checked
- Input Colorspaces: YV12 Checked

SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)")

Output via DVI to Sony HS60 (1280x720 in 50/60Hz)


Regards

Steffen
Actually I meant Joeuser2 but lets see. Your system is powerful enough to handle that for sure. I got an Opteron 165 dual core OCed to 3GHZ with 7900GTX OCed as well. I can run basically any combination I want right now of Seesaw and LSF and always get smooth playback. Now, is your playback jumpy or you are just concerned about the high CPU use? Did you try my call script in my previous post? You should be able to use that.
Let me know how it runs for you.

[Waters_10]

I then OC my E6300 (from 1,86 to 2,8 ;-) ) and now it seems to run fine, but still about 75% CPU-Usage.... am I doing something wrong or is fddshow+avisynth+lancos THIS MUCH performance hungry??? I mean: an Intel Core2Duo at 2,8 Ghz with 7900GTX is pretty much the fastest rig you can buy at the moment.... and still 75% ???
I was expecting better ffdshow performance out of core2 cpu's! Please give us more details on different settings you tried and the results. For starters, you mentioned 75% usage. Is that in one core? What about the other core? What kind of temps you were getting?

From what you posted, it seems you did lanczos before avisynth. What happens if you do resize after avisynth? And what happens if you do resize within avisynth instead of using ffdshow resize?

I'm considering a allendale upgrade, from an OC'ed Venice 3400+ socket 754 @ 2.65Ghz. I was expecting huge performance increase on this upgrade, but based on your results, I'm a bit confused! I wish more C2D users would post their results here. Thanks for sharing.

[dwellingheresy]

I meant (up to) 75% in both cores!!!!
I think there MUST be something wrong - just looking at benchmarks the core2duo should have more than enough power. Temps are up to 41 (celsius) and overclocked up to 45 - with boxed cooler!!!!

Will try some different settings today... how do I resize within avisynth??
...you'll here from me... (so much for just having a setting and not tinkering around ;-) )


Regards

Steffen

[Waters_10]

I meant (up to) 75% in both cores!!!!
I think there MUST be something wrong - just looking at benchmarks the core2duo should have more than enough power. Temps are up to 41 (celsius) and overclocked up to 45 - with boxed cooler!!!!

75% when overclocked? At least your temps are pretty good with the stock cooler! But yeah, I'd think a C2D CPU would handle this easily, considering all the benchmark results we're seeing and how dual-core pentium 4's are doing with avisynth! I hope you can figure this out!

how do I resize within avisynth??
Just add LanczosResize(1440x960) before or after MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)")

From reports here, doing it within avisynth uses even more cpu usage, but it's worth a try. Keep us posted!

[TforTuna]

dwellingheresy,

If your using DScaler. Make sure it's using YV12.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3734/dscalerot5.jpg

[TforTuna]

dwellingheresy,

You just need to put the 0.9 RemoveGrainSSE2.dll into the Avisynth plugin folder, then put the 1.0 RemoveGrainSSE2.dll into the Avisynth Plugin Folder.

You don't need to put all the removegrain contents into the Avisynth Plugin folder.

Since your using Core 2.
You should use RemoveGrainSSE3.dll

[BoomerBrian]

dwellingheresy,

You just need to put the 0.9 RemoveGrainSSE2.dll into the Avisynth plugin folder, then put the 1.0 RemoveGrainSSE2.dll into the Avisynth Plugin Folder.

You don't need to put all the removegrain contents into the Avisynth Plugin folder.

Since your using Core 2.
You should use RemoveGrainSSE3.dll


Why not just put the RemoveGrainSSE2.dll version 1.0 in the folder? I don't understand how overwriting a dll makes any difference.

[TforTuna]

WHen you first put on Removegrain, after reformatting. If you just use 0.9, OR 1.0, not BOTH you'll get a error trying to run LSF.

Info (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84196&page=25)

[dwellingheresy]

@TforTuna: The contents of my Avisynth Folder you can see below in the graphic. I just use Theatertek... so no Dscaler
@Luis: tried your settings but they didn't change the "jumpiness"... also didn't really like the picture, but I'm using my 19" CRT Monitor at the moment (1280x1024)...
@waters_10: since I'm using both NTSC and PAL DVDs - wouldn't be just resizing "2x" better? ...if so: how do I put in Avisynth? Sorry for my "noobiness", but.... ah well: I'm a newbie to Avisynth ;-)

@everybody else: will keep you posted.... there should be well enough Power in this CPU - even without OC.... so something must be wrong... maybe I should try a different Version of FFDshow SSE ....

Regards

Steffen

[TforTuna]

What is the ffdshow output setting ? YV12 ?

[Waters_10]

@waters_10: since I'm using both NTSC and PAL DVDs - wouldn't be just resizing "2x" better? ...if so: how do I put in Avisynth? Sorry for my "noobiness", but.... ah well: I'm a newbie to Avisynth ;-)
Yep, it would. I just don't know if LanczosResize(2x) or LanczosResize(2) would work. Give it a shot, I guess. And just try with one dvd, either pal or ntsc to see if makes a difference. Believe me, I'm just as noob as you are! I just started playing this weekend and I was trying to find C2D ffdshow user's reports like yours.

maybe I should try a different Version of FFDshow SSE ....

Which one did you use? Can you try Andy's SSE2 Preview version? I don't have a link to that version, but it shouldn't be that hard to find, since a lot of people still use that old version! That's the one I've been using the most ...

[jamieuk23]

Would you think that a amd x2 4400+ would be able to handle limitedharpen + resize x2 and lancoz 2 ?

as I am trying this and playback seems in slow motion.

I would of thought my CPU would of been able to handle this easy ?

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Are you OCing at all? Thats LimitedSharpenFaster right?

[jamieuk23]

Are you OCing at all? Thats LimitedSharpenFaster right?

no mate I havent stepped in to the world of overclocking yet. I am using the standard limited sharpen.. is there any advantage of limited sharpen faster against the standard build ?

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

no mate I havent stepped in to the world of overclocking yet. I am using the standard limited sharpen.. is there any advantage of limited sharpen faster against the standard build ?
There is actually no reason to use limited sharpen since LimitedsharpenFaster gives you exactly the same quality and its MUCH faster. Try this script:

SetMTMode(2)


MT("HQDN3D(1)")

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=300,wide=true, overshoot=0)")

It works great eith my infocus 4805.

PS I recommend to use Lanzos 2 not 4 as the latter one creates to many artifacts.

[Waters_10]

Luis,

Do you resize after LSF? I'm very impressed that an Opteron 165@3Ghz can do a ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5 LSF! What's your cpu usage? Temps? That's the type of result I was hoping to get with a C2D ...

[jamieuk23]

would this be the ideal order to run everythign threw FFFDSHOW

resize x2
denoise3d
limitedsharpen faster

??

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Actually I can do up to 2.2 supersampling IF I dont use the wife=true option but I found that my current setting gives me better image quality and spares me some cpu cycles. I guess you are not very familiar with Opterons are you? You shouldnt be surprised at all, Opterons are very powerful CPUs just not as powerful it seems as your DUO for most things. I havent checked much on the load so let me run a movie and check a histogram to tell you better. I know I have issues with one core been at 50 and the other one barely touched so I need to balance the load better somehow.

[Waters_10]

I guess you are not very familiar with Opterons are you? You shouldnt be surprised at all, Opterons are very powerful CPUs just not as powerful it seems as your DUO for most things.
I actually own an opteron overclocked to 2.7Ghz, but it's a single core. But in any case, I'm very familiar with this family of cpu's. I don't own a Core Duo, I'm just considering it. I know it's faster on most benchies, but there's been very few user reports on how core2 duo handle ffdshow/avisynth.

And, are you resizing after LSF or not? Heatsink? Temps?

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

I actually own an opteron overclocked to 2.7Ghz, but it's a single core. But in any case, I'm very familiar with this family of cpu's. I don't own a Core Duo, I'm just considering it. I know it's faster on most benchies, but there's been very few user reports on how core2 duo handle ffdshow/avisynth.

And, are you resizing after LSF or not? Heatsink? Temps?
I am at work so I cant check that but my heat sink is a Scythe Ninja with a big and loud Delta 120mm fan (152cfm). There is no need to resize since I am using supersampling already. After that I let my video card send the pixel match 854x480 resolution to my projector.
BTW, I used to gave a 3400NC OCed to 2.75 and the opteron blows it out of the water in any respect. Im a big AMD fan but I am sure the DUO should handle ffdshow at least as good as my Opteron (depending on the DUO speed of course). Let me get back home and I will post my temp and load.

[dwellingheresy]

Hi there,
I just tried a couple of new settings:
- using ffdshow_rev2546_t63_20060812 now (newest File that explicitly states SSE§ support?!) - doesn't seem to make a difference
- disablingf MT doesn't really make a difference, except: first core only uses 10-20% (could be progs in the back) second one still at above 90
- resizing after avisynth greatly improves performance, but does the opposite to image Quality
- I can't seem to get a 2x resize to work from within avisynth --> any help??
- tried some other stuff, like disabling Hqdn3d..... which sucks regarding IQ

IQ wise