Using Avisynth LimitedSharpen pre-processing with ffdshow for DVD playback! [Text View] - Page 4

Beamer

03-12-06, 06:51 AM

Im not sure if this is entirely the cause for some stutter, im in PAL land (no 3:2) and still find some obscure stuttering when using LSF on some occasions.. eg. I can play test clip and see stutter, then play it back again straight away and not see it. These observations have been posted before (by myself and others) and there doesnt appear to be an easy solution (or any solution) - the only general rule of thumb is that the more processing power you have, the less likely you are to see it..

eg. Ive just removed the overclock on my HTPC (back to 3.0ghz from ~3.5Ghz) and am able to play the same clips that I thaught were maxxed out when overclocking seem to play fine.

I did also increate the setmtmode(x) to setmtmode(5) up from setmtmode(2) - which may have had an affect - infact using those settings, with a slower CPU im able to increase my strength up 5..

This may all change tomorrow - it seems to be the nature of the beast :-)

Cheers,
Bitey

Bitey

I'm also in PAL land and have experienced the same issue, I firmly believe that it is still a cadence issue. I think the reason why frames sometimes play correctly and other times not might be related to the spped effect mentioned in my earlier post.

It's early days but now I have a source to test with it's making problems more easy to recognise

Mr.Bitey

03-12-06, 07:00 AM

Beamer

03-12-06, 07:37 AM

Beamer,

You might be onto something there :-) - I assume your using the nvida decoder and card - have you tried dscaler5008 to see if thats a problem also? (im Dscaler/Ati here)..

Someone wrote a huge avisynth script that deinterlaces depending on cadence (or something along those lines!) - im trying to find the post.. maybe something in there could be of assistance... (searching)...

I'll post when ive found it...
EDIT: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=582628&highlight=avisynth+qualia+60fsp
There is it.. by Orbitzboy..

Cheers,
Bitey

I followed the Orbitzboy thread but never did see a script that has a universal de-scaler. For the time being I will concentrate on the de-interlacer plugins downloaded today. I'm currently using a 6600GT card / Theatretek 2.2.

I have not tried Dscaler but I am willing to give it a try if the plugins do not help.

BTW I watched Crash last night in PAL, with processing on it drove me crazy. In certain parts of the movie it appeared to drop frames but it once again was simply a cadence issue, no frames were actually being dropped. I turned off processing and the film played perfectly.

Beamer

03-12-06, 10:19 AM

Here's the info you need, Beamer.

FFDShow
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm
Avisynth
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/Avisynth_256.exe?download
Masktools
http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a27.zip
Removegrain. Open RemoveGrain with Winrar, http://www.rarlab.com
http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar
Media Player classic
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_players/media_player_classic.cfm
ColorMatrix
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ColorMatrix_v110.zip
Decomb
http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Filters/decomb521.zip

DGDecode
http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Decoders/dgmpgdec146.zip

I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools
link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get ColorMatrix.dll from the colormatrix link.
I get DGDecode.dll from the DGDecode link.
I get Decomb521.dll from the decomb link.
I put these 6 plugins into my avisynth plug-in folder.

I delete FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi from the avisynth plugin folder.

In the removegrain link. Use the SSE that your cpu has, either SSE or
SSE 2, or SSE 3.
If your cpu has no SSE, use the removegrain dll that I showed that end
in "S", that means it's not SSE.
Get the corresponding SSE FFDShow as well.

The location of your avisynth plugin folder may be different.
Copy and paste this script in the FFDShow Avisynth text box;

LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\dgdecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\Decomb521.dll")
Telecide(0)
Decimate(cycle=5)
FieldDeinterlace(full=false)
ColorMatrix()
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0, ss_y=1.0, Smode=3, strength=60)

Wow you have been busy Jeremy. Thanks for the assistance as I was not having too much luck on my side. I will try the decoder/filter later today with the test disk and let you know what happens. Boy it would be great if this works!

Beamer

03-12-06, 11:03 AM

Jeremy:

I tried the script but it does not run very smoothly, in fact its not watchable but it does try to lock in which is indicated by the moire pattern disapearing occasionally. I have not removed the files you mention (FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, & TCPDeliver.dll nor am I using removegrain so I'm assuming you have cut and copied from an earlier script that used removegrain as it is not in your script.

Not sure what color matrix is doing, my script also 'imports' LimitedSharpenFaster.

How does it look on your system?

Jeremy Duncan

03-12-06, 11:36 AM

FFDShow
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm
Avisynth
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/Avisynth_256.exe?download
Masktools
http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a27.zip
Removegrain. Open RemoveGrain with Winrar, http://www.rarlab.com
http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar
Media Player classic
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_players/media_player_classic.cfm
ColorMatrix
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ColorMatrix_v110.zip
Decomb
DGDecode
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/decomb.htm

I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools
link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get ColorMatrix.dll from the colormatrix link.
I get DGDecode.dll from the DGDecode link.
I get Decomb521.dll from the decomb link.
I put these 6 plugins into my avisynth plug-in folder.

I delete FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi from the avisynth plugin folder.

In the removegrain link. Use the SSE that your cpu has, either SSE or
SSE 2, or SSE 3.
If your cpu has no SSE, use the removegrain dll that I showed that end
in "S", that means it's not SSE.
Get the corresponding SSE FFDShow as well.

I extract DGIndex.exe and DGDecode.dll
and put them in the same directory.

Assuming you have a .vob from a ripped dvd.

Open DGIndex.
Using File/Open, open your VOB.
Now select Audio/Output Method/Demux All Tracks.
Now select File/Save Project and enter a name for the D2V file.
Hit Save.
The indexing process will start.
When the process finishes, exit DGIndex.

Now you have your D2V file.

The location of your avisynth plugin folder may be different.
Copy and paste this script in the FFDShow Avisynth text box;

LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\dgdecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\Decomb521.dll")
mpeg2source("G:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\Movie.D2V")
Telecide(0)
Decimate(cycle=5)
FieldDeinterlace(full=false)
ColorMatrix()
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0, ss_y=1.0, Smode=3, strength=60)

You have to rip it as described.
Major mistake on my part.

Fixed the decomb link.
Fixed a error in the copy and paste script.

Beamer

03-12-06, 12:15 PM

"You have to rip it as described.
Major mistake on my part."

I did read earlier that files need to be pre-processed. I trust you agree this is not a practical solution. We need to find a real-time solution.

Interesting experiment nevertheless.

The research goes on..................

regards
Beamer

Jeremy Duncan

03-12-06, 12:27 PM

I'm disappointed that I need to rip it first too.

Quoting Didée.
"Generally, it's tiredsome to solve the "problems" of those wanting to do more or less complex multi-step video processing in realtime. ("Make a proper encoding, or stick with more simple RT processing.")

In particular, trying to do inverse telecine in realtime for sure isn't a too smart idea. The most sophisticated IT filter(s) in their most sophisticated mode(s) run *way below* realtime, for an obvious reason: it's not that easy. Inversely, this means that realtime IT will always contain imperfections.

Possibilities of realtime processing are limited. Period."

tetsuo55

03-12-06, 02:43 PM

Beamer

03-13-06, 09:00 AM

Telecine and interlacing and all that stuff will be solved soon enough by Dscaler5

Can you elaborate?

mikesusangray

03-13-06, 01:09 PM

Telecine and interlacing and all that stuff will be solved soon enough by Dscaler5

Hmm. The word "soon" may be misplaced here. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one - unfortunately. The programmer who's done the lion's share of the work hasn't had much time to dedicate to the project fo quite a while now.

Still ... yes. Dscaler could, potentially, at some point, be a very nice step forward.

Mike

zambelli

03-13-06, 02:06 PM

Indeed, ffdshow/LSF combo is pretty useless for DVD watching unless you can guarantee your source is progressive by the time it hits ffdshow in the DirectShow graph. The first step to solving this might be experimenting with different MPEG-2 decoders. Some might have realtime deinterlacing and IVTCing capabilities in software mode.

I've given up on ffdshow+LSF for DVD sources and pretty much use it exclusively for DivX, WMV and other true progressive sources.

Andy Lammer

03-13-06, 05:47 PM

Andy Lammer

03-13-06, 06:11 PM

PERFORMANCE CONSIDERATIONS .....

Just to recap, here are my settings in ffdshow and I am ONLY using avisynth.

Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpenFaster.avs")
SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(2)")
LanczosResize(1440x960)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100,overshoot=7)")

My main test clip for this is the start of Chapter 10 in Gladiator and let it run for about 2 minutes.
I like this clip as there are lots of horizontal pans, that let me keep on eye on stuttering.

My HTPC is quite good with great overclocking ASUS P5WD2-Premium mobo, 2x512 PC-6400 ( DDR2-800 ) SDRAM, Maxtor 300 Gb SATA-2 hard drive, nVidia 6600GT, Thermaltake Big Typhoon cooler, and Antec TP2-550 power supply .

I have been playing with both an Intel 640 CPU & 940 dual-core CPU, which are both run at 3.2 GHz stock speeds.

I have tried my above "full settings" at stock speeds and reeeally run out of horsepower = heavy stuttering.
So have to either eliminate my HQDN3D, and/or lower my LSF strength heavily, and/or don't do the LanczosResize.
It is only when I overclock to 4+ GHz that I can run with my "full settings" without stutters.

The 900 series of CPUs are great overclockers and still run cool, so I highly recommend them.
Running both the 640 & 940 at around 4.1 GHz, I really don't see the benefit of dual-core for what I am doing within ffdshow.
I cannot add any additional processing after my LSF call.
But keep in mind, that I have resized the DVD to 2x to 1440x960 so any additional functions are working on 4x the data.

When I first installed the 940 a few days ago at stock speeds, I was expecting great things with its dual-core functionality, but that was not the case.
I guess we need to wait for more multi-threaded functions within ffdshow & related plugins.

So now, I have had enough of playing and testing "the limits" within my own means, and am going to just watch & enjoy some DVDs ! :)

- Andy

zambelli

03-13-06, 07:28 PM

mikesusangray

03-14-06, 01:44 AM

Bother.

Just when I thought I had everything working nicely, I get a bad case of the jaggies. I watched Million Dollar Baby with my wife last night, and in some of the scenes I had some horrendous jags. I managed to keep myself from stoipping the movie to fiddle, but this morning I tweaked for quite a while without finding a solution.

Here's an example - look at her left cheekbone:

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/mikesusangray/jaggies.jpg

My normal settings are as follows:

SetMTMode(1)
MT("mergeluma(removegrain(2,-1),0.50).LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,stre ngth=100,overshoot=7)")

Using these settings (a NO other ffdshow filters, including resize) I got the screen shot I've included.

Without any avisynth at all, the jaggies were gone, but the picture was very soft.

By moving my denoise up to this:

SetMTMode(1)
MT("hqdn3d(2).LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,str ength=60,overshoot=7)")

This reduced the jaggies significantly, but they were still there at a marginal level - and hqdn3d was obviously working hard on them. (When I switched settings you could actually see a sort of smoothed band appear over the jagged section.) That's a lot better than nothing, but I'm wondering if the problem lies at a different level all together.

I got to thinking that this might be an interlacing issue, but no deinterlacer I tried made any difference. I also tried switching from Nvidia decoders to ffdshow and using the "hardcode for PAL with ffdshow" setting, but that didn't help either.

You guys have any thoughts about this? I'd like to figure out what's happening here!

Best,

Mike

mikesusangray

03-14-06, 01:45 AM

Beamer

03-14-06, 02:01 AM

zambelli:

I am using TheaterTek v2.2 with an nVidia 6600GT.
So as I understand it, TT performs de-interlacing via nVidia's Purevideo, which is deemed to be "good deinterlacing"
Then TT sends this progressive content to ffdshow/avisynth/lsf for post-processing.
Is this sequence of events correct ?

- Andy

Hi Andy

This question was not to me but to clarify Zambelii's response:

All bets are off with TT deinterlacing if you use FFdshow as can be noted from my earlier post "24fps ges output @ 57-59fps" When the frequency drift hits exactly 2 x 24fps (decimals ignored) the picture will look OK but as soon as it moves awayfrom that sweet spot it will show up interlace issues. It's important to note that like the DLP strobe effect, some people are imperviose to the issue as their brain cannot detect the light flicker or in this case frame discrepancy. Unfortunateley, some like me are incredibly sensitive to a missing or additional frame (not the same as a frame drop)

The bottom line is that if you can watch a variety of material without seeing a jitter, judder or Ghosting effect when you know the content to be perfect, then you are one of the lucky ones.

Presently TT cannot handle cadence very well at all if FFdshow is enabled, even if you do not enable any filters at all!! In fact if you simply turn on the Nividia NVPP processor without FFdshow, this screws up cadence control royally!

3:2 Pulldown simply does not work on my 6600GT if any external processing is enabled.

Jeremy Duncan

03-14-06, 02:36 AM

mikesusangray,

I'm curious what my settings look like. My celeron M Notebook is too weak.
Please try them out, be sure not to miss a plug in.
My Blur & NR Denoise3d setting is; 3.63, 2.63, 5.05, HQ checked.
The plugins are below.
I hope it turns out to be a good thing for you.

FFDShow
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm
Avisynth
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/Avisynth_256.exe?download
Masktools http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a27.zip
Removegrain. Open RemoveGrain with Winrar, http://www.rarlab.com
http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar
Media Player classic
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_players/media_player_classic.cfm
ColorMatrix
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ColorMatrix_v110.zip

I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get ColorMatrix.dll from the colormatrix link.
I put these 4 plugins into my avisynth plug-in folder.

I delete FFAvisynth.dll, DirectShowSource.dll, TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi from the avisynth plugin folder.

In the removegrain link. Use the SSE that your cpu has, either SSE or
SSE 2, or SSE 3.
If your cpu has no SSE, use the removegrain dll that I showed that end
in "S", that means it's not SSE.
Get the corresponding SSE FFDShow as well.

Copy and paste this script in the FFDShow Avisynth text box;

ColorMatrix()
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0, ss_y=1.0, Smode=3, strength=60)

hobie_od

03-14-06, 05:56 AM

Jeremy: I found that jaggies were much worse if resize is not in my chaing. Adding a Laczos resize after LSF got rid of (or minimized) the jaggies.

Andy Lammer PERFORMANCE CONSIDERATIONS .....
Try increasing the overshoot on LSF and see what happens with the second core. I noticed that increasing the overshoot utilizes the second core more.

These two pieces are how I found that a resize got rid of jaggies. I was wondering if I was using the overshoot if I needed the resize. I came to the conclusion that I did.

Jim

Jeremy Duncan

03-14-06, 06:16 AM

Jeremy: I found that jaggies were much worse if resize is not in my chaing. Adding a Laczos resize after LSF got rid of (or minimized) the jaggies.

So my setup works when using that tweak. Good stuff.

zambelli suggests you do the resizing before LSF. But you found it's better if it's after LSF. Interesting.

What are your PC specs used to do this ?

Andy Lammer

03-14-06, 08:38 AM

Beamer

03-14-06, 09:13 AM

Thanks for the clarifications on TT de-interlacing with the use of ffdshow.

Beamer:
I think I understand what you mean by "missing or additional frame ... not a frame drop".
I was assuming that what I am sometimes seeing (as you were describing as de-interlacing issues ) was *in* the source material, but this may not be the case now that I understand more.

- Andy

I believe that Interlace and Cadence issues are frequently misunderstood. It is only recently that I have finally begun to understand the differences between them myself and I attribute that knowledge mostly to using the test DVD and reading the excellent booklet that came with it.

Jaggies are definitley associated with interlacing but Judders, Jitter & Ghosting can all be caused by Cadence assuming that the CPU always has enough overhead to deal with the processing. I beleive this is the reason why a lot of DVD's can be processed using Avisynth and look really great, yet others can just drive you crazy.

mikesusangray

03-16-06, 05:49 AM

Jeremy: I found that jaggies were much worse if resize is not in my chaing. Adding a Laczos resize after LSF got rid of (or minimized) the jaggies.

Odd. That didn't help me. The only thing that seems to help right now is hqdn3d. But I'm thinking that the problem must lie at some other point in the chain. I have the feeling that hqdn3d is a ptch over job for something I ought to fix at adifferent point.

If I only knew where ...

Mike

Mr.Bitey

04-02-06, 07:39 PM

All,

Anyone have any progress on resolving the miscalanious stutters?

I watched two anime titles the other night, one stuttered - the other did not.
GITS2 - Innocence (r4 pal) did not stutter, GITS SAC 2ND GIG Vol2 - did stutter (so much so I turned off LSF).

Cheers,
Bitey

Andy Lammer

04-02-06, 09:13 PM

I am not into Anime, but they would be encoded with their own cadence settings that are unique to Anime. I had no idea there were so many until I ran through the HQV Benchmark DVD.

With my setup, I get great results for film DVD's but crappy results for TV programming on DVD, such as the series NipTuck in particular. I feel it is all cadence related. For NipTuck, I also don't use avisynth but rather used ffdshow's Blur & Noise, and Resize, and dScaler Sharpen.

For even more preformance and smoooooth playback, when I rent a DVD, I will first copy it to my hard drive and playback from there. Makes me think that realtime playback of DVD via a PC's DVD drive is inherently flawed. Even on my super-fast HTPC with no ffdshow or post-processing, I am somewhat aware of micro-stutter, even on film, that is not there once played back via the hard drive.

- Andy

Mr.Bitey

04-02-06, 09:32 PM

Hi Andy,

I was doing some testing with R4 (PAL) LOTR (extended edition) Two Towers, I use a dark panning scene (camera is 'flying' over and around a tower with lava-fall in background) - sometimes this would stutter, sometimes it wouldnt.. AFAIK this is a film based title.. i still dont understand why this stutters sometimes on the same material :)

Gradiant Banding is the other problem im seeing with LSF - mainly in dark scenes.. I spotted another fast (designed for realtime) filter on doom9 that might fix this, but the stuttering is what bugs me most :) I prefer (by quite a lot) the LSF image and like hqdn3d too but find myself going back to ffdshow lan4 luma sharpen (1.20) and denoise3d fast.. this is silk smooth for me.. but not quite as nice.. (sigh)..

I also rip everything to HDD (ISO image, then mount with daemon tools - all automated) - I rent a lot of discs, which are often scratched - I erase them once ive returned the rental - i'd rather clean a dirty rental during ripping then ruin a good movie!

Cheers,
Bitey

Pisangbusuk

04-02-06, 10:15 PM

There are a few things to prevent stutters.. after 3 weeks of messing around these are the list.....

Use Yuv12 on raw video input and output.
Convert to yuv12 using avisynth.

Use x=1.0 y=1.0 and not more.. more will cause stutter

Use limitsharpenfaster

Use the correct sse version for removegrains /repair and ffdshow

Using Reclock

Lanczos parameter 2 instead of 4 .. 4 will cause stutter.

using normal overlay instead of vmr 7 or 9

Mrkazador

04-02-06, 10:56 PM

Ive done a side by side comparasion of a parameter of 4 and defualt and i see no difference at all. I suggest leaving it at defualt.

deandob

04-03-06, 05:05 AM

I also agree, I can't see a difference between Lanczos 2 and 4, except for 30% more CPU load.

Another question - has anyone got Trimension DNM from the WinDVD codec working with avisynth (as per socios's guide)? I have an Athlon 64 x2 and constantly get crashes when switching on DNM. Yet it works fine on my desktop Pentium machine so I'm suspecting its a hardware compatibility problem.

Regards,
Dean

Mr.Bitey

04-06-06, 09:27 PM

Hmm anything screwy going on with the forums? - im sure I posted a couple of messages here yesterday and now theyre gone! :(

[edit] - just saw the annoucement :( and I had the cure to the stuttering too!!! (I WISH).

Anyway, what I was on about was that I was watching some movies with avisynth enabled (doing hqdn3d - as I cant stand the denoise3d fast anymore with its frame-ghosting (spoiled now)).. and I didnt see any stuttering.. now this may have been because the titles were not the sort that cause the stutter but an interesting observation none the less..

Anyway the point is, Beamer - you mentioned earlier that you thaught the cadence issues were responsible for the stuttering, and that any introduction of avisynth would result in this behaviour - did you do any testing without LSF but still using avisynth? - perhaps it is LSF causing the issues itself..

Cheers,
Bitey

Apollo 13

04-06-06, 09:27 PM

can someone posts a new link for the masktools for a AMD 64 CPU because the one at the beginning of the thread doesn't work anymore.

Mr.Bitey

04-06-06, 09:31 PM

Apollo 13: http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a28.zip

Jeremy Duncan

04-11-06, 08:04 AM

http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a28.zip
http://students.washington.edu/lorenm/src/avisynth/hqdn3d/hqdn3d-0.11.zip
http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/ffdshow-20040709_SSE2.exe
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/AviSynth_260402.exe?download
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/guliverkli/mpc2kxp6490.zip?download

I get mt_masktools.dll and LimitedSharpenFaster.avsi from the masktools link.
I get RemoveGrainSSE2.dll from the remove grain link.
I get HQDN3D.dll from the HQDN3D link.

I delete from the avisynth plugin folder:
FFAvisynth.dll
DirectShowSource.dll
TCPDeliver.dll,
colors_rgb.avsi

HQDN3D(0.9)
Lanczosresize(1024,576)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot =7)

What is the Overshoot range ?

Mr.Bitey

04-11-06, 08:24 AM

Jeremy,

Quote from Didée over on Doom9:

"overshoot
This specifies how much the sharpening result may "shoot over" the min and max limits, before either clipping or reduction will be done. 0=no overshoot allowed at all, 128="make-this-script-useless"
Default is overshoot=1."

It appears to set the overshoot min and max level limits for sharpening and will clip or reduce (or increase) the sharpening effect depending those limits.

Have a read of Didée's first post in the Doom9 LSF thread.. I believe there are some references later in that thread.

Cheers,
Bitey

Pisangbusuk

04-11-06, 09:06 AM

Someone just suggested using trimension dnm.... I did not manage to install the required windvd 6,, However I simply use the windvd 7 decoder, results is very very good. The picture is more 3 dimensional and smooth with windvd7 as decoder+FFdshow as compared than just using theatertek+ffdshow(setting belows)
What i did;
=I simply install latest Windvd 7 .
=Use Zoomplayer to use WinDVD 7 as video codec. and Reclock 1.7 as audio. FFDShow with limitsharpen(settings below) as post.
-Tried turn on cinemadnm using regedit.. pitcure became brighter and flatter. Therefore its turned OFF.
-UseDNM = 1 regedit. no effect but leave on ..
-32pulldown = 1
-DXVA=1 (not sure it does anything)
- PROGSCAN=1
-HDFASTMODE=1
-NOVIDEODROP=1
-bobweave=0
under-->
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\InterVideo\Common\VideoDec\zplaye r
--add using Dword.. set to 1.

Note : 3d effect looks more intense using windvd as player. However, Zoomplayer +Windvd7codec+ffdshow looks more 3d and smoother than Theatertek+ffdshow(shown below)..

Funtastic.

_____

What i did previously :

Limitsharpen + Hqdn3d.. took me 2 weeks + to mess around and finaly got the results I desire Highly enhanced sharpness with minimal Halo.. I mainly watch Poor Quality DVD, Use a LFS Screen, therefore looks soft, and a H30 that is also pretty soft.... so..... turned out Just nice ! My setup got a new life!

Fantastic..
special thanks to Socio for posting the guides.

SS taken

Before: Screen captured with Theatertek 2.06
http://www.picfury.com/7/01_52_39 Large-1-th.JPG (http://www.picfury.com/7/01_52_39 Large-1.html)

After: With Limitsharpenfaster (renamed to limitsharpen) +Hqdn3d(3) + lanczos resize 2 1024X 768, taken with a G3 Cannon. frame freezed.

http://www.picfury.com/7/IMG_0089-1-th.JPG (http://www.picfury.com/7/IMG_0089-1.html)

Raw Video = YuV12 checked

converttoyv12()
crop(8,8,-8,-8,true)
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\removegrain.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\degrainmedian.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\vaguedenoiser.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\hqdn3d.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")
hqdn3d(3).LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,str ength=250,overshoot=7)

Notice the name faster and one without? thats intentional coz i renamed the limitsharpenfaster to limitsharpen..

+lanczos resize 2 1024X768 . 2 chorma
Output Yuv 12 checked only

in Overlay mode
Reclock 17 b3.
My Gear

HTPC amd64 754 2800 , 1 gig ddr 333, MSI 6600GT VGA output 1024x768. 84.12 Version driver. Winxp.

Using Light Fusion , First Mirror . (makes screen Blurr)
H30 Optoma ( not very sharp too)

Running Everything SSE2 optimised.

My Pluggins !! (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RD1849P5) if u want it.. its SSE2 Optimised btw....

-.-PhanTom-.-

04-11-06, 02:00 PM

Hey all...
Just finished building my HTPC and having problems getting a decent DVD image on my tv.
My specs:
TV=32' CRT 100Mhz
HTPC: Pentium D805, 2 X 512 Mb DDR RAM, Radoen 9700, Haupauge MCE500 tuner, HDA X-plosion soundcard

I have read a few pages of this thread and found it very interesting, however, I am totally new to all of this, and the info in this hread is very "technical" to me.

So my question, or plea, is:
Is there a tutorial/guide for newbies like myself about this very specific tweaking method, or how to I best go about setting up my PC to take advantage of these tweaks?

Or should I just start by using more simple ways og viewing DVDs and live with the "poor" quality? :)

Mr.Bitey

04-11-06, 07:57 PM

Hi Phantom,

Check out Socio's guide - it'll run you through step by step for applying Limited Sharpen Faster. Link: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/ffdshowGuides/index.html

This guide assumes youve already got your software dvd player working :-) - It will be difficult to troubleshoot if you try and do it all at once!!

There is another thread on how to setup zoomplayer, dscaler and I think ffdshow (have a search of topics) - i'd recommend doing this first, then adding LSF..

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-11-06, 10:34 PM

Jeremy,

That should look fine of course subject to taste! - my setup usually gets stuttery once I increase strength to that level - im curious as to why hddn3d(0.9) and not just 1 ? :-)

Is there a place to enable ffdshow in MPC ? - your walkthrough doesnt show how to turn that part on (if you need to) - I use zoomplayer and im not familiar with MPC.

Cheers,
Bitey

Pisangbusuk

04-11-06, 10:56 PM

JD ..

hum.. hqdn3d is 1 or 2 or 3 isnt that right? are u sure there is a decimal? And (3) gives the most fine results.. 1 is too smooth.

You need to import the avs and load the plugins function also... for safety...
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\removegrain.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\degrainmedian.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\vaguedenoiser.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\hqdn3d.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")

Why u have to delete those dll? ..... very wierd.

To be frank.. I had been much confused by all your posts and guides....

Pisangbusuk

04-11-06, 11:02 PM

and you cant just use the SSE2 like that..

you rename the RemoveGrainSSE2.dll to RemoveGrain.dll thus the limitsharpen.avs script will use the sse2 version.... are u sure thats how u use it?????? same with degrainmedian,vaguedenoiser... Im not sure if limitsharpen use all.. I just make sure its there......

Im not sure if ur script works at all.

Where is the resize function everyone suggested...

Mr.Bitey

04-11-06, 11:20 PM

Pisangbusuk,

My avisynth call looks similar to that - so long as limitedsharpenfaster has a .avsi extension it will autoload - as will the other plugins so long as theyre in the default avisynth plugin folder.. Technically no need to individually load them (in this case)..

My understanding of the removegrainsse2.dll is that because its in the default plugins dir it will be loaded and its functions will thus be called from LSF - there is no need to rename it. (I could be wrong here - but so long as only one removegrain dll is loaded the functions inside it should be called regardless of the filename)..

HQDN3D usage can include decimals, from doing a little reading earlier in this thread actually is very customisable. see here http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?action=browse&id=Filter_Plugins/Filter_Hqdn3d&revision=13

When you specify Hqdn3d(x) this is working only on the luma spatial strength with all others remaining default.. see here http://students.washington.edu/lorenm/src/avisynth/hqdn3d/hqdn3d.txt

Im with you with regard to following Jeremy's guides and some posts LOL.. Im still unsure as to his motives given he doesnt run the scripts hes suggesting to people (implied through posting guides)..

Cheers,
Bitey

Jeremy Duncan

04-11-06, 11:45 PM

Jeremy Duncan

04-11-06, 11:54 PM

Hqdn3d(0.9)

I use 0.9 because it works better. I was running a calibration disk on Media Player Classic and running the setup I showed you and tried Hqdn3d(2)

There was a ugly calibration pattern as a result.
So I lowered it decimal by decimal until I got to 0.9
The calibration pattern was no longer ugly.

I got the ugly effect because my old pc cannot run these plugins.
Without trouble.
It's the perfect setup for finding out how much Hqdn3d should be set.
With however I have my pc setup. I found this out.
Don't want to strain my brain thinking about it.

So now I recommend using Hqdn3d(0.9) because it's the best setting for it.

Edit.
I think because my pc was stressed already, and showing this via the calibration disk.
The Hqdn3d setting put it over the top, and it was easy to see what I consider the best setting.

Jeremy Duncan

04-12-06, 12:01 AM

Where is the resize function everyone suggested...

I just right click and select full screen.
Resizing in ffdshow avisynth is harder on the cpu.

Jeremy Duncan

04-12-06, 12:02 AM

Is there a place to enable ffdshow in MPC ?

Not that I know of.

Mr.Bitey

04-12-06, 12:03 AM

Jeremy,

What was the test disc and pattern? - some of those test discs use a static image which wont do a denoiser like hqdn3d much good (it needs a couple of frames to work out whats noise and what supposed to be there :)

Just because that setting worked best on your test pattern doesnt mean thats the setting it should be used on video - it depends how noisey the video is :) and what sort of noise as to what type of denoiser, and at what settings. I'd generally agree that a low setting like youve suggested is probably good enough as a catch-all but should be turned off for extremily clean video, or turned up for extremily noisey video..

Im also interested in what hqdn3d did to the calibration pattern!

With regard to remove grain (and most other plugins) - you either need to leave it in the default plugins folder (they are all autoloaded) or load it explicitly from another folder.

Cheers,
Bitey

Jeremy Duncan

04-12-06, 12:03 AM

Im not sure if ur script works at all.

I can assure you it does indeed work.

Jeremy Duncan

04-12-06, 12:06 AM

Pisangbusuk

04-12-06, 12:39 AM

JD,
As long as the guides work ... I'm satisfied... Just that the method differ greatly from socio. .. that leaves me very puzzled. Sorry about jumping on you.

Thanks for explaining.

Mr.Bitey

04-12-06, 12:40 AM

Jeremy,

Which test disc?

Cheers,
Bitey

Jeremy Duncan

04-12-06, 12:44 AM

Jeremy,

Which test disc?

Cheers,
Bitey
http://www.calibrate.tv/

Mr.Bitey

04-12-06, 12:49 AM

Cheers - that wasnt the disc that 'professionally calibrated' your display (to be very dark) was it? ;-)

Jeremy Duncan

04-12-06, 12:53 AM

Cheers - that wasnt the disc that 'professionally calibrated' your display (to be very dark) was it? ;-)

Not sure what your talking about ?

Mr.Bitey

04-12-06, 01:53 AM

Just stiring a little (back to your earlier ffdshow postprocessing/levels adjustments of gamma in particular that looked exceptionally awful on everyone elses displays). Back on topic now ;)

-.-PhanTom-.-

04-12-06, 04:11 AM

Hi Phantom,

Check out Socio's guide - it'll run you through step by step for applying Limited Sharpen Faster. Link:

This guide assumes youve already got your software dvd player working :-) - It will be difficult to troubleshoot if you try and do it all at once!!

There is another thread on how to setup zoomplayer, dscaler and I think ffdshow (have a search of topics) - i'd recommend doing this first, then adding LSF..

Cheers,
Bitey
Thnx for the advice... have tried a bit and think I have all programs installed correctly.
I am trying to use the SSE2/SSE3 versions of the dll's, and the MT.dll avisynth one, but can't seem to get it working right.
Wether I use the MT(....) or the SetMTMode syntax, I get an error in the script...

"no function called LimitedSharpen....."

But I copied the LimitedSharpen.avs+LimitedSupport.dll into the plugins dir ..so why isn't it recognised?

I am running Xp64 if that makes any difference..

Jermmd

04-12-06, 04:48 AM

Try writing limitedsharpenfaster rather than limitedsharpen.

-.-PhanTom-.-

04-12-06, 05:08 AM

Hmmm no I get "MT does not have a named argument avisynthTS...." ...hmmm

Wether I use LimitedSharpen or LimitedSharpenFaster in argument doesn't make a diff, same error message

-.-PhanTom-.-

04-12-06, 05:44 AM

Ahh...seem to got it working now, with MT even :)

Andy Lammer

04-12-06, 07:02 AM

On the subject of HQDN3D I find the value of 3 too much.
It looks as if it is "over-averaging" and giving a subtle blotchy look.
My screen is a 104" wide Silverstar ( gain = 6 ) which may aid in seeing flaws more.

A value of 1 is not enough for me, while 2 looks just fine .
Of course, all of our setups are different, dll versions, etc.

- Andy

scotty144

04-12-06, 01:09 PM

My HTPC just doesn't have enough grunt to use limited sharpen, denoise and resize.

Plus, I have never been able to find a de-noiser that seems to work right for me.

So, I am just using limitedsharpen and resizing 2x by lanczos4.

Are there any other denoising options that perform well with a low hit on cpu cycles?

Eopian

04-12-06, 01:44 PM

-.-PhanTom-.-
What did you do to get rid of the error?

Mr.Bitey

04-12-06, 06:41 PM

-.-PhanTom-.-

04-13-06, 05:25 AM

Good to hear PhanTom,

Just for anyone else in the same situation:
Limitedsharpenfaster does not need limitedsupport (its built into the later versions on masktools). With MT05 you need to remove the 'avisynthts' parameter from the end of the call. If you do not specifically load limitedsharpenfaster you need to ensure its extension is .avsi

So Phantom - what do you think? :-) any stuttering issues?
Cheers,
Bitey

Thnx for clearing that up.
I will have to go and re-check all my settings to make sure they actually work as they should...

I find it a bit hard to actually SEE the difference on my "old" 32' Widescreen CRT 100Mhz TV.... guess the best way to see image differences would be to take still images and compare them?
How do people do that?

Also, I am not sure I have yet gotten the best possible picture/resolution I can with my CRT TV... currently using s-video...but will get VGA->SCART soon and hope that will improve the quality of the feed....
Resolutionwise I am still a bit unsure...currently using 720x576...

I am using MediePoretal as HTPC frontend, and have not yet decided which DVD player and codec to use....
1) Theatertek
2) WinDVD7
3) PowerDVD6

And then to configure them to work inside MediaPortal with my iMon remote...oh fun, oh joy... -lots of setting to play with ;)

Eopian

04-13-06, 07:43 AM

I’ve been using Limited Sharpen since the sse2 ffdshow became supported. I was looking to keep up with all of your updates (this is a very large thread). After a couple of hours reading this thread here is what I’ve done:

1. Install Avisynth 2.5.6a
2. Download masktools-v2.0a28
3. Download MT_05-02 (the -02 may be because I dl’d it twice) (Date Jan 15, 2006 on plugins)
4. Downloaded recommended plugins from Socio’s webguide
5. Cleared plugins folder
6. Installed the following into my plugins folder: hqdn3d.dll, mt_masktools.dll, WarpSharp.dll, RemoveGrainSSE2.dll, RepairSSE2.dll, LimitedSharpenFast.avsi, RSharpenSSE2.dll, avisynth.dll (also in system32, do I need it here?), DenoiseSharpen.dll, MT.dll

The software I’m using is: Zoomplayer Pro (VRM9), DScaler Codecs, and FFDShow.

The hardware I’m running is: Abit IS7 (865) Mobo, Intel 3.2EE Northwood (technically, really it’s a gallatin) @ 3.58 (224 fsb), 1 GB ram, and old gf4 MX440 (for the time being, my gf4 ti 4600 randomly died so I ordered a 6600GT, will be here soon), for now movies are just displayed on my monitor, when I get the new gfx card working, I’ll be displaying it on my 30” Toshiba HDTV.

In FFDShow I’m running:

Denoise 3d – luma .5, chroma .5, time 5.00 HQ (checked)
Avisynth with Add ffdshow video source and YV12 checked, with this in the blank space:

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)")

Playing just like this I get CPU utilization in the mid thirties – amazing! Am I using the most effective setup? Also, would resizing be most effective before or after avisynth and denoise?

Thanks

Jeremy Duncan

04-13-06, 09:01 AM

Somebody give my guide a go.

Jermmd

04-13-06, 11:27 AM

I haven't had any success with limitedsharpen so far. Either I get stutter and sound problems or I don't see improvement over my original FFDShow settings. I think I may be using the wrong SSE version for my processor. How can I confirm the SSE capabilities of my 2.8ghz P4 processor?

-.-PhanTom-.-

04-13-06, 12:15 PM

Jermmd

04-13-06, 02:26 PM

-.-Phantom-.-,

Thanks. Great program and exactly what I needed. My processor has SSE2 processing.

adrianmak

04-13-06, 11:41 PM

I followed Socio's instructions on page 1 , adding
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")
LimitedSharpen(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)

in ffdshow config

but I don't know how to use it to playback dvd to see the result

jman311

04-14-06, 09:59 AM

I am about to rebuild my HTPC (doing an OS reinstall). I read that some recommend disabling hyper-threading as it can actually hinder ffdshow when enabled, but I also was wanting to try out using limitsharpen w/ avisynth, and in the online guide I see there are instructions on how to configure it to take advantage of multithreading.

I want to get the BIOS setting right before I reinstall my OS. Can anyone confirm the hit to ffdshow resizing/sharpening from having HT enabled? How much of an advantage can be gained using HT with the avisynth/limitsharpen method?

BTW I have a P4 3.2Ghz CPU.

mikesusangray

04-14-06, 10:55 AM

How much of an advantage can be gained using HT with the avisynth/limitsharpen method?

I have a 2.8 gig machine, and I get better results using HT with MT("...") than I do with HT turned off and no MT. I think, anyway. Since I haven't actually made a scientific study of this, I could be wrong. I did make a point of using the exact same settings except for the HT/MT thing.

* * * * *

BTW, Something I have discovered: I'm getting excellent results on my 2.8 gig machine with the following script (on fairly clean PAL material):

bicubicresize(1024,576)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=200, overshoot=7)")
MT("mergeluma( removegrain(2,-1), 0.25 )")

Before I added the resize prior to limitedsharpen, I had noticed that even a fairly modest strength number (say, 60) gave me jaggies on lines that are just a bit off the vertical or horizontal (I posted a screenie a few pages back).

I quickly noticed that resizing before sharpening fixes the jaggies problem; however, since I haven't juiced my machine up into the 4+ range, I was able to get it to run with some other values I've seen in this thread.

To my surprise, however, that very small resize works perfectly. I then raise sharpen strength to about 200 and everything is wonderful.

Peace,

Mike

Mr.Bitey

04-14-06, 01:07 PM

Jman,

Leave HT on to install the OS. You can then turn it on/off in the bios afterwards as you please. From memory I do not think you can turn it off, install the OS then turn it on again - the OS doesnt install the right HAL.

With the MT enabled LSF - you'd probably get better results leaving it on. Leaving it also lets windows do other 'stuff' in the background (like decoding your dvd).. All system are a bit different - you can always try it out with HT on, and HT off and see which one gives you better results.

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-14-06, 01:08 PM

mike,

Interesting result! - are you letting your video card scale to another resolution?

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-14-06, 01:21 PM

Scotty,

The mergeluma (you'll see it on socio's site, or used in scripts posted a few posts ago) is a quicker denoiser - but ive found can cause jaggies.

You could try gradual denoise in ffdshow on a low setting, it use a low setting on (like 0.5) on hqdn3d but thats a pretty greedy denoiser (in terms of cpu)..

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-14-06, 01:27 PM

adrianmak,

It depends on your dvd player (zoomplayer, mpc etc) as to how you get dvd's working.

Jeremy has posted some guides with regard to MPC and ffdshow (seperate thread) - they should get you started. There are also some guides on running zoomplayer, dscaler and ffdshow (do a search on topics - i dont have the link bookedmarked) - to which you then add in the limitedsharpenfaster stuff.

Get your dvd software player working with ffdshow first then add in lsf.

Cheers,
Bitey

mikesusangray

04-14-06, 01:51 PM

Interesting result! - are you letting your video card scale to another resolution?

Hey, Bitey. Yes, it *is* interesting. If you go back to page 26 of this thread you'll see the jaggies I've been getting - and they suddenly disappear with this new variation.

Anyway, the picture looks fine. I've tried it on my LCD at 1280:720 and on my projector at 1024:576 and it looks good both ways.

An odd thing about this is that PAL resolution is 720 by 576. Hence, I'm not actually changing the verticle resolution, only the horizontal (from 720 to 1024). What I don't understand is how the 576 actually works on a 16:9 movie. 1024:576 is a 16:9 ration; 720:576 is even closer to a square than 4:3 (the ratios are, apparently, 1.77, 1.33, 1.25).

This leads to a theory: I think that LSF is having some trouble calculating the original size of the PAL film stream, adn that this is alleviated by resizing. The PAL stream seems to be carrying non-square pixels, and they are confusing LSF, leading to jaggies. By resizing to 1024:576, LSF is getting squares.

One thing is for sure: no post-LSF resize helped the problem at all, it just slowed the computer down. And adding massive amounts of smoothing masked the jaggies some, but also took a lot out of the picture.

One final thing: I don't like the hq3d denoiser any more, at leat on quality DVD material. It just seems to harsh to me.

Mike

Mr.Bitey

04-14-06, 02:02 PM

Hi Mike,

Mmm interesting indeed... if it wasnt 4:30am here i'd go and do some testing... :-) im resizing to 1776x1000 but after - I was never able to rezie before... if only I could get rid of the wife and kids tomorrow (today) LOL

Cheers,
Bitey

Jeremy Duncan

04-14-06, 05:16 PM

adrianmak,

Jeremy has posted some guides with regard to MPC and ffdshow (seperate thread) - they should get you started.
Link to Guides (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667061)

zambelli

04-14-06, 08:26 PM

An odd thing about this is that PAL resolution is 720 by 576. Hence, I'm not actually changing the verticle resolution, only the horizontal (from 720 to 1024). What I don't understand is how the 576 actually works on a 16:9 movie. 1024:576 is a 16:9 ration; 720:576 is even closer to a square than 4:3 (the ratios are, apparently, 1.77, 1.33, 1.25).

This leads to a theory: I think that LSF is having some trouble calculating the original size of the PAL film stream, adn that this is alleviated by resizing. The PAL stream seems to be carrying non-square pixels, and they are confusing LSF, leading to jaggies. By resizing to 1024:576, LSF is getting squares.
That makes sense. Since all DVDs use non-square pixels (720x480|576), they need to be resized to square pixels at some point during playback. This is typically done by the video renderer (VMR in most cases). However, in order for this to work, the renderer needs to know what the intended DAR of the video is. Ordinarily this bit of information is sent from the decoder to the renderer in the graph. When you insert ffdshow+avisynth into the graph between the MPEG-2 decoder and the video renderer, you lose this aspect ratio information. Resizing to square pixels works around this problem.

jorsan

04-16-06, 04:23 PM

Maybe a silly question but need you help guys:
I downloaded already all the plugins that are recomended in this threath but when I play a movie ( with zoomplayer+ffdshow) I have a legend in the middle of the screen that readss:
"scrip error there is no funtion named limitedsharpen
(ffdshow_filter_avishyn_scrip_line 3)" . . . .
could yoyu help me?
By the way, I download the text mentoned in the second post here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84196 and add it under file name "limitedsharpen. avs" . After that, in ffdshow under "avisynth" I add this two lines:
" Import("C:\Program Files\ffdshow\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")

LimitedSharpen(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)" (I have the avishynth 2.5 inside ffdshow)

Could you help me please? Im anxious to finish with all this settings and start to play with my projector. Before of post this message, I've tried hard but my computing knowledge is not very high as you can see. Thanks

mikesusangray

04-17-06, 11:51 AM

egandt

04-17-06, 12:00 PM

mikesusangray

04-17-06, 02:31 PM

I've been playing with Limitedsharpenfaster within ffdshow for a few days now and the results are very good, now I have a dual Core system (AMD 4600+), and I want to spread around the load, since I also am using the hqdn3d filter.
Since its dual core I wanted to spread the load, using the MT plugin, Ive tried both
SetMTmode(2) and MT("string") modes and I've found that the CPU load on th first core (the one used by everything), oes up by about 12% when I turn on MT, on the second core the CPU goes from 12% to 33%, so it is distrubiting the load, but why am I seeing no improvement on the first core (core 0 CPU normally is about 72% and goes to 85% when MT is on).

Have another look through this thread as well as the following thread over at doom9 forums:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94996

Since I only have a HT system (which does work with the MT thing), I'm not particularly informed on this, but from what I've seen, I don't believe the MT command works on dual core systems. I seem to recall seeing quite q few messages like yours. Presumably, though, the MT command *should* work on dualies - one of the programmer types just needs to tinker with it some more.

Mike

Mr.Bitey

04-18-06, 05:40 AM

MT will work with dual processors/dual-core, maybe not perfectly (ie a 50:50 split) but it will work and you will get some benefit :-) but a lot of the cpu time is used in resizing - which cannot be used with MT..

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-18-06, 07:43 AM

Out of interested I switched to overlay (from vmr9 renderless) and seem to have less stuttering.. I'll have to watch some titles through to tell for sure..

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-19-06, 10:52 PM

Just me again (LOL)..

Has anyone experimented with using the dest_x,dest_y parameters to avoid doing an unecessary(?) resize after or before?

Ive been doing some re-reading over on doom9 about lsf/iip and saw a reference (by Didee) about using this parameter to avoid an unnecessary resize step after lsf..

Just some food for thaught.. I'll test this tonight if I get a chance and report back.

Cheers,
Bitey

mikesusangray

04-20-06, 12:09 AM

Just me again (LOL)..

Has anyone experimented with using the dest_x,dest_y parameters to avoid doing an unecessary(?) resize after or before?

Ive been doing some re-reading over on doom9 about lsf/iip and saw a reference (by Didee) about using this parameter to avoid an unnecessary resize step after lsf..

I have - but since I use MT(), I can't use those parameters. IT *would* be nice if somone could come up with a version of MT that would support resizing , though ...

Mike

Mr.Bitey

04-20-06, 12:36 AM

Hi Mike,

I wonder then if its qucker to forget MT and have LSF do the resize given a lot of CPU time is used in the final resize anyway..

My head is hurting a bit trying to figure out how MT/LSF can work with SS (resizing) yet wont work with dest_x,dest_y ? I havent tried it - does it give an error or just crap-out ?

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-20-06, 07:45 PM

Update:

dest_x,dest_y dont work with MT (error - which I remember now :-) and ends up being slower (alot) than running MT then doing a resize in ffdshow.

Overlay is allowing a much higher strength/overshoot settings for LSF before stuttering - I watched pirates of the carabean lastnight with S100 and overshoot 7, I was also running hqdn3d(0.0,2,0.0,4) [only denoising chroma) - and only noticed 4 or 5 minor sutters (and only on scene changes (possibly chapter points)) running from an ISO file. This looked a bit oversharp to me, but did look really nice anyway as a change! - very sharp, very detailed especially in areas of slow movemenet or statics - maybe a touch nervious tho (maybe soothe would help here)

LOTR SE running from DVD - same settings - bad chop in some panning scenes.. Wound it back to 80 and it was better but still not perfect I think 60 would have been fine (I didnt try it - too tired ;) .. So it seems if your overlay PQ is OK then it might be the way to go for running LSF with higher settings / reducing chop/stutters - if this is indeed whats causing them!!

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

04-23-06, 11:26 PM

Me again, for a change.

Ive solved it - at least on my system!

I can run hddn3d (0.5,2,0.5,4), LSF with strength 110, overshoot7 and Lan2 resize to 1776x1000 (after, however). No stutters, no chop.

Overlay got me part way there, however I recall I enabled all of the video cards anti-aliasing and anthripic (or something) somehing or other (all the fancy 3d smoothers) under quality settings under the 3d tab (Ati CCC) to get rid of tearing.. Setting all these to the 'performance' end of the slider (or their absolute minumum setting) has gotten rid of my stutters/chop!

Now I know overlay isnt as good as VMR9, but I can live with that for the added benefits of LSF and hqdn3d! - im back to enjoying movies again rather than watching for problems.

Cheers,
Bitey

adrianmak

05-03-06, 10:30 PM

Mr.Bitey

05-04-06, 09:40 PM

I think just incase youve got some incompatable plugins there and were using an older version of avisynth.

The newer version 2.5.5 (it think it is) autloads any plugins in that plugins folder - sometimes these get picky about order and you can run into problems (all the LSF ones are ok tho)..

Cheers,
Bitey

bennynihon

05-28-06, 09:17 PM

Hi,

I've tried using the MT Avisynth plugin on WinXP x64 (64-bit version) and it seems to crash my system. Has anyone had success using this plugin with x64? Or does anyone know how to contact the author of the plugin?

Thank you.

Mr.Bitey

05-28-06, 10:19 PM

bennynihon,

You can contact the author ("TSP") over on the doom9.org forums. There is a thread here supporting MT:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94996

Cheers,
Bitey

belgacom

07-01-06, 07:12 AM

there is no more icon of ffdirectshow when i play movie in media player classic.
now when i play mpeg file the only filter decoder is from microsoft.
how can change that to ffdshow
i have storem codec pack

BoomerBrian

07-16-06, 12:52 PM

There was a mirror to socio's site which was still alive - there are some links to it back some.. Looks like socio's site is back: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/ffdshowGuides/adv.html

Cheers,
Bitey

Anyone know what happen to this guide? I have been trying to get to it for a couple of weeks with no luck.

Mr.Bitey

07-16-06, 08:39 PM

BoomerBrian

07-16-06, 10:30 PM

BoomerBrian,

Did you check the mirror? im unsure if its dead also..

Is there something in particular thats giving you grief? - Jeremy duncan's guide(s) sticky (top of this sub-forum) isnt a bad starting spot (although i my personal taste differs to some of the settings :)

Cheers,
Bitey

Hello Bitey,

I was unaware about the URL for the mirror.

There is nothing really giving me grief. I just wanted to read through that site again. Before I rebuilt my computer I was using the settings from that site. I am now using the settings from Jermery Duncan's guide. It seems to me that the PQ looked better with my previous settings but I am unsure. I was just going to try and set it up like I had it so I can compare.

Here are my current settings after reading Jeremy's guide. I am using Resize and AviSynth.

Any suggestions are welcome.

SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=70,o vershoot=7)")

2x Resize
Lancos 2

Mr.Bitey

07-17-06, 08:54 AM

I'll dig my settings out for you.. cant at the moment, the batteries in my wireless mouse have died and im waiting for them to recharge (sigh) :-)

Cheers,
Bitey

Mr.Bitey

07-18-06, 08:02 AM

Heres my settings, these are my normal settings - I leave these on for 95% of the dvd's I watch.

zoomplayer settings:
video decoder: dscaler5007 decoder - output space yv12; no analog blanking
audio decoder: ac3filter 0.70
audio renderer: reclock 1.6
video renderer: overlay mixer
additional filters: ffdshow RAW video processor
setvideo colourspace: yv12
dvd navigator: microsoft dvd navigator

FFDSHOW settings (andys sse2 preview build: ffdshow-20040801a_preview_SSE2.exe)

Avisynth:
MT("hqdn3d(0.5,2,0.5,4)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=4,strength=100, overshoot=7)
")

Resize&Aspect:
Resize ticked
specify size: 1776x1000
Resize always: radio-button-selected
aspect ratio: no aspect ratio correction (radio button)
Settings:
Method: Lanczos
Parameter: 2
Luma sharpen: 0
Chroma Sharpen: 0

Output:
yv12 - all others deselected

Thats about it I think...

EDIT: Included lanczos resise settings (which I forgot :)

Cheers,
Bitey

BoomerBrian

07-18-06, 08:53 AM

Thanks Mr. Bitey. I will do some tweaking tonight and get back with you.

Jeremy Duncan

07-19-06, 11:34 AM

Try overshoot=1

Mr.Bitey

07-19-06, 08:20 PM

Ive tried a lot of settings and I settled on 7 for some reason :) (cant remember why now).. Im viewing on a HD CRT RPTV, so a little extra overshoot doesnt do too much harm (just blends in) - if your viewing on a digital display - it might be more pronounced. 7 is pretty low really (its like 9% extra on the top and bottom ends)..

Im going to have a play around with soothe too - see if I can get the image a little more stable..

Cheers,
Bitey

ORPhD

07-24-06, 02:01 PM

Mr.Bitey

07-24-06, 06:54 PM

ORPhD,

You dont have to use a denoiser, but if you dont then you can risk sharpening the noise = wasting CPU and making the picture look worse. You should also use a light denoiser after sharpening to reduce/remove some sharpening artifacts.

Give it a shot without a denoiser and see how it looks :-).. You could always use a tiny bit of denoising to take the edge of the noise prior to sharpening.

Cheers,
Bitey

scotty144

07-24-06, 08:38 PM

Mr. Bitey

Can you reccomend some denoising options for me, My system (P4 2.4) I can get away with 3d noise reduction...no HD, limited sharpenfaster and 2x resize (Lanczos 4....although I sometimes lean towards bicubic, I find it a little less noisy).

Is there a particular denoiser I couild call up in avisynth that I could try after sharpening that won't be too cpu taxing.

thanx,

Scott

Mr.Bitey

07-24-06, 09:12 PM

Luis Gabriel Gerena

07-25-06, 12:34 AM

I know the original post on LimitedSharpen over at Doom9 says it is, but here's my situation.

95% of what I watch is recent (or recently restored) Hollywood movies. That means I'm almost always watching clean or even pristine transfers. I've seen posts here about how denoising can actually eliminate detail in such instances (fog scenes in LOTR for example). So is there something I'm failing to consider by not using one first? (For reference, I have seen how it helps on older stuff since I did test one with Princess Bride.)
At first I used to like denoisers until I started noticing that it removes the smalles detail so at that point denoisers are not part of my processing unless its something really really old and noisy. Most new movies dont need it anyway.

Sinobi

07-25-06, 02:21 AM

I haven't used denoisers at any point (except for testing), no matter if using mid to highend digital projectors or CRT projectors. I always find it removes too much detail.
But it is also highly dependant on what decoder you use. I found the old PowerDVD decoder to enhance noise, and that together with LS and later LSF gave increased noise.... choose the best decoder from the beginning and you might not need a denoiser.

Henrik

scotty144

07-25-06, 06:46 AM

Bitey,

Current settings are...

Zoom Player using Dscaler codec, denoise 3d 0.78,0.78 time 5.05 (No HQ....CPU can't handle it) , LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=55,o vershoot=7, Lanczos Resize 1440,960, I will try paramater 2...thanx for the tip.

I have played around with a few different denoisers that I found on the Doom site but haven't found one I like yet...usually I don't have enough juice to run them.

I believe I tried mergeluma but I kept getting error messages. How do you call that up in avisynth?

Thanx for your help.

Scott

scotty144

07-25-06, 05:01 PM

Luis Gabriel Gerena

07-25-06, 06:40 PM

Well as much as I want to I just don't like the results of Lanczos resize...at any parameter. It just introduces too much grain and noise for my taste. Also, by using Bicubic I am abale to use a stronger setting on Limited Sharpen. Everytime I tried to increase sharpening with Lanczos I got lots of jaggies. Anyone else experiencing this?
I was never able to full use Limited Sharpen due to some strange artifacts created by it. I remember some other members seeing the same thing. Perhaps new scripts, video card and drivers will work now so which is the Limited Sharpen script you are using now and which downloads do I need...I am guessing the older ones I got arent up to date anymore.

Jarretth

07-26-06, 02:10 AM

Maybe I don't fully understand this...

I was using LimitedSharpen for Live TV in YV12 mode like the guide said. When I try to use it on DVDs in YV12 it does nothing. I checked the input under info & debug (ffdshow) and it says YUY2 when I am watching a DVD.

Should my avisynth with limitedsharpen be YV12 or YUY2? Can I use that ColorMatrix plugin no problem too?

BangoO

07-26-06, 03:45 AM

ORPhD

07-26-06, 07:30 AM

Mr.Bitey

07-29-06, 07:37 AM

Scotty144,

Im pretty sure that with some versions of ffdshow settings under 1.0 are negated (become 0) and this are not used... eg. 0.78 actually is interpereted as 0 and thus isnt applied (only in some versions of ffdshow). Sharpening with lanczos isnt as 'nice' a sharpener as LSF... I used to sharpen with lanczos4 resize.. but prefer setting this to 0 now and letting LSF do the work. I'll try to find the script for mergeluma - like I said earlier (i think) i found it made too many jaggies for my liking.

Luis Gabriel Gerena,
Jeremy Duncan's sticky has the links to all the versions you'll need - its at the top of the htpc sub-forum thread-list.

Jarretth,
Dscaler is a bit naughty (and im assuming your using dscaler in your app), sometimes it says its YUY2 when you look at it offline (no video playing) and in the filter-properties (whilst playing) it can say YV12. Just change it in real-time and you should be ok.. if you tell ffdshow to only accept YV12 input then you should get an error when you feed it YUY2 (if dscaler isnt outputting YV12). You can use colourmatrix if you want (ive never seen the need personally). From memory LSF uses (well some functions inside lsf) YV12 so if you can avoid a conversion (ie. get dscaler to output yv12) you save some cpu cycles not needing to do a colour-spaceconversion. If its working, and your seeing video - then some function/filter is doing a conversion for you - if you wernt in the right colour space, you'd get a filter connection error, badly corrupted video or no video :)

BangoO,
Not really following you post that well.. You can use MT to speed up LSF on multithreading/multicpu machines... There was also a version of ffdshow that was supposed to support multithreading (so you didnt need MT) - it crashed my system when I tried to use it - maybe you'll have some more luck (search for it - there is a post by jeremy duncan on it).

Cheers,
Bitey

Kubrick19

08-15-06, 03:37 AM

Jeremy posted this from what Owen stated:

"Deinterlacing

Unfortunately the deinterlacers in FFDShow are either not very good, or are so CPU intensive, that they are unusable, especially for 1080i.
If deinterlacing is required, it is advisable to use a decoder that supports deinterlacing in hardware. (Nvidia)
That will require the decoder to run in DXVA mode, which means that FFDShow cannot be used.
The use of FFDShow in the replay chain forces software decode mode on all decoders.
IMHO the advantages of hardware deinterlacing out way any advantages resulting from the use of FFDShow.
In fact, current video cards have improved to the point where there is no longer a pressing need for FFDShow, and many people will be quite happy without it."

Can I please get some help setting up my 7900gt with purevideo and using that to deinterlace 1080i film source, I'd like to it with media player classic. I am familiar with the zoomplayer/dcalser/ffdshow/avisynth for 720p playback but for 1080i I need something with better results. I am not sure what other programs to use or how to setup purevideo with mpc to achieve the best results, thanks for any help.

Kind regards,

Drew

koach

08-15-06, 07:32 AM

Has anyone tried LimitedSharpenFaster on 1280*720 @ 23.976fps sources ?
I have an X2 3800+ o/ced to 2500Mhz and I'm at around 53-54% CPU use, and as it is not multithreaded, it means my cpu is too slow :(

Anyway to use LimitedSharpenFaster multithreaded ?
Or maybe I just missed some parameters that could make it run faster...

Thx ;)

This is how I have it set up:

SetMTMode(2)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)")

Just have to make sure you have the right versions of MaskTools, MT, and RemoveGrain. And of course your CPU needs to be dual core.

Mr.Bitey

08-15-06, 06:40 PM

koach,

The cpu doesnt need to be dual core, at a minimum it does need hyperthreading..

So the requirements for MT to work properly (ie you get some benefit from it :) are:
-Hyperthreading CPU
-Dual Core CPU
-Dual (or more) CPU's

Cheers,
Bitey

koach

08-17-06, 08:39 AM

dwellingheresy

08-19-06, 11:00 AM

Hi there everybody,
just got my new PC (P5WDh, E6300, 7900GTX) and am looking for a new setup.
My preferred Player is Theatertek and I just started using FDDShow... but only very basic Setup...
...since the PC is just new, at the moment I'd much rather just enjoy it for a couple of weeks than spend ages of tinkering around (I will get to that in a few weeks).

So what would be a good starting setaup for Theatertek - as you can see from my rig: power is no problem ;-)

Right now I am just using resize 3x, Lancos and some Postprocessing...

...Avisynth sounds interesting...

A Quickguide and some Settings, just something where I think "Wow, that looks better than before, but I might want to change XXX in a couple of weeks" would be sooooooo apreciated!!

What Programs/ Plugins should I get? What settings should I apply? What order should the Filters have?

Please: help someone to skip the tinkering for a couple of weeks and just enjoy his new rig :-)

Regards

Steffen

BoomerBrian

08-19-06, 11:11 AM

scotty144

08-19-06, 01:59 PM

Scott,

With a 2.4 your really going to find it hard to run two denoisers that would actually do anything :) unless you overclock it :) I have enough trouble with my ~3.5 (3.44)..

I'd forget denoising after sharpening (I dont run it on mine).. rather concentrate on denoise prior to sharpening (and prior to resizing).. there are some threads earlier that use mergeluma - that is less cpu intensive (but I found it introduces jaggies)... you could try that one with some low settings. Alternatively use gradial denoise in ffdshow at a low setting.

Drop back to Lanczos 2 if you want to use Lanczos (4 can introduce more ringing and is more cpu intensive).

What are your settings at the moment, including order?

Cheers,
Bitey

Well with more research and playing around I have finally solved my denoise issue. I am now using standard denoise 3d ...0 luma,3 chroma, 6 time and also can now enable HQ. Apparently using whole numbers gives me a little more cpu headroom.

Also able to resize 2x with Lanczos 2 and Limited Sharpen..although I use a much milder setting of 30...I have tried higher but it just looks overblown...maybe it has to do with my rather large screen (133") and 14' seating distance.

Anyways, thanx for your help Bitey I am finally satisfied with my settings...for now.

BTW, has anyone experimented with the new SeeSaw sharpening fuction?

joeuser2

08-20-06, 11:27 AM

Yes...9 FPS using an AMD64 3000! Went back to LSF...

dwellingheresy

08-20-06, 11:39 AM

Hi there,
so I just got around following Duncan's Guide.

One Question in Advance: should I unpack both of the Removegrain folders into the Plugin Folder, or just the one File "removegrainsse3.dll"?

...tried both, didn't make a difference...?!

So my setup now is just Lancos Resize and Avisynth with Multithreading.....
....well the picture is good... but the Speed isn't actually smooth...
...to be clear it looks like around 15fps....?!?!

I am using FFDshow-20060803-SSE and the files I got from the links in the guide.

Working on the problem I installed reclock (which says it doesn't support my Graphics Card... didn't really want to use another program anyway), I changed resize from 3 down to 2, I changed Graphics Card settings from highest 8xAA and 16xAF down to 2xAA and 8xAF....
....but it all didn't help...

Suggestions, please....

Greets

Steffen

EDIT: I just tried some other stuff: reducing Graphics settings to absolute minimum seems to help, but PQ is way worse than, and also still minor studder.
I then OC my E6300 (from 1,86 to 2,8 ;-) ) and now it seems to run fine, but still about 75% CPU-Usage.... am I doing something wrong or is fddshow+avisynth+lancos THIS MUCH performance hungry??? I mean: an Intel Core2Duo at 2,8 Ghz with 7900GTX is pretty much the fastest rig you can buy at the moment.... and still 75% ??? Would need an overclocked E6800 and SLI for below 50%....

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-20-06, 12:46 PM

What was your pc gear again?
Right now I am liking this settings for "most" movies but keep in mind that some movies look better with slightly different settings or even seesaw.

SetMTMode(2)

MT("HQDN3D(2)")

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=200,wide=true, overshoot=0)")

I like how it brings out detail without showing artifacts at least for me. I played with LSF for a while yesterday and today I will play with seesaw.
Regards

BTW For Removegrain I took the shortcut and just deleted the originial removegrain and renamed the ss3 version to removegrain so that I didnt have to change any scripts.

dwellingheresy

08-20-06, 01:22 PM

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-20-06, 02:30 PM

Hi Luis,
(I hope you were talking to me)...
My setup:
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Core2Duo E6300 (preferably without overclocking)
Sparkle 7900GTX (Driver: 91.31)
2x512MB Corsair XMS
Windows XP SP2
Theatertek
Klite 2.75

I use these configs:
(Version B from the guide)
ffdshow (FFDshow-20060803-SSE)
all "removegrain" files in the SSE3 Version (without renaming them, I just deleted everything else)
Resize & Aspect
- Resize Checked
- Multiply by 2.000 (Or 3.000)
- Resize Always
- No aspect ratio correction
Resize & Aspect Settings tab
- Luma Meathod: Lanczos
- Parameter 2.00
- Luma Sharpen 0.00

Avisynth
- Avisynth Checked
- Add ffdshow video source Checked
- Input Colorspaces: YV12 Checked

SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)")

Output via DVI to Sony HS60 (1280x720 in 50/60Hz)

Regards

Steffen
Actually I meant Joeuser2 but lets see. Your system is powerful enough to handle that for sure. I got an Opteron 165 dual core OCed to 3GHZ with 7900GTX OCed as well. I can run basically any combination I want right now of Seesaw and LSF and always get smooth playback. Now, is your playback jumpy or you are just concerned about the high CPU use? Did you try my call script in my previous post? You should be able to use that.
Let me know how it runs for you.

Waters_10

08-20-06, 10:20 PM

I then OC my E6300 (from 1,86 to 2,8 ;-) ) and now it seems to run fine, but still about 75% CPU-Usage.... am I doing something wrong or is fddshow+avisynth+lancos THIS MUCH performance hungry??? I mean: an Intel Core2Duo at 2,8 Ghz with 7900GTX is pretty much the fastest rig you can buy at the moment.... and still 75% ???
I was expecting better ffdshow performance out of core2 cpu's! Please give us more details on different settings you tried and the results. For starters, you mentioned 75% usage. Is that in one core? What about the other core? What kind of temps you were getting?

From what you posted, it seems you did lanczos before avisynth. What happens if you do resize after avisynth? And what happens if you do resize within avisynth instead of using ffdshow resize?

I'm considering a allendale upgrade, from an OC'ed Venice 3400+ socket 754 @ 2.65Ghz. I was expecting huge performance increase on this upgrade, but based on your results, I'm a bit confused! I wish more C2D users would post their results here. Thanks for sharing.

dwellingheresy

08-21-06, 04:07 AM

I meant (up to) 75% in both cores!!!!
I think there MUST be something wrong - just looking at benchmarks the core2duo should have more than enough power. Temps are up to 41 (celsius) and overclocked up to 45 - with boxed cooler!!!!

Will try some different settings today... how do I resize within avisynth??
...you'll here from me... (so much for just having a setting and not tinkering around ;-) )

Regards

Steffen

Waters_10

08-21-06, 07:28 AM

I meant (up to) 75% in both cores!!!!
I think there MUST be something wrong - just looking at benchmarks the core2duo should have more than enough power. Temps are up to 41 (celsius) and overclocked up to 45 - with boxed cooler!!!!

75% when overclocked? At least your temps are pretty good with the stock cooler! But yeah, I'd think a C2D CPU would handle this easily, considering all the benchmark results we're seeing and how dual-core pentium 4's are doing with avisynth! I hope you can figure this out!

how do I resize within avisynth??
Just add LanczosResize(1440x960) before or after MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)")

From reports here, doing it within avisynth uses even more cpu usage, but it's worth a try. Keep us posted!

TforTuna

08-21-06, 07:32 AM

dwellingheresy,

If your using DScaler. Make sure it's using YV12.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3734/dscalerot5.jpg

TforTuna

08-21-06, 07:35 AM

dwellingheresy,

You just need to put the 0.9 RemoveGrainSSE2.dll into the Avisynth plugin folder, then put the 1.0 RemoveGrainSSE2.dll into the Avisynth Plugin Folder.

You don't need to put all the removegrain contents into the Avisynth Plugin folder.

Since your using Core 2.
You should use RemoveGrainSSE3.dll

BoomerBrian

08-21-06, 07:54 AM

TforTuna

08-21-06, 08:08 AM

WHen you first put on Removegrain, after reformatting. If you just use 0.9, OR 1.0, not BOTH you'll get a error trying to run LSF.

Info (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84196&page=25)

dwellingheresy

08-21-06, 09:04 AM

@TforTuna: The contents of my Avisynth Folder you can see below in the graphic. I just use Theatertek... so no Dscaler
@Luis: tried your settings but they didn't change the "jumpiness"... also didn't really like the picture, but I'm using my 19" CRT Monitor at the moment (1280x1024)...
@waters_10: since I'm using both NTSC and PAL DVDs - wouldn't be just resizing "2x" better? ...if so: how do I put in Avisynth? Sorry for my "noobiness", but.... ah well: I'm a newbie to Avisynth ;-)

@everybody else: will keep you posted.... there should be well enough Power in this CPU - even without OC.... so something must be wrong... maybe I should try a different Version of FFDshow SSE ....

Regards

Steffen

TforTuna

08-21-06, 09:19 AM

What is the ffdshow output setting ? YV12 ?

Waters_10

08-21-06, 09:47 AM

@waters_10: since I'm using both NTSC and PAL DVDs - wouldn't be just resizing "2x" better? ...if so: how do I put in Avisynth? Sorry for my "noobiness", but.... ah well: I'm a newbie to Avisynth ;-)
Yep, it would. I just don't know if LanczosResize(2x) or LanczosResize(2) would work. Give it a shot, I guess. And just try with one dvd, either pal or ntsc to see if makes a difference. Believe me, I'm just as noob as you are! I just started playing this weekend and I was trying to find C2D ffdshow user's reports like yours.

maybe I should try a different Version of FFDshow SSE ....

Which one did you use? Can you try Andy's SSE2 Preview version? I don't have a link to that version, but it shouldn't be that hard to find, since a lot of people still use that old version! That's the one I've been using the most ...

jamieuk23

08-21-06, 09:48 AM

Would you think that a amd x2 4400+ would be able to handle limitedharpen + resize x2 and lancoz 2 ?

as I am trying this and playback seems in slow motion.

I would of thought my CPU would of been able to handle this easy ?

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 09:59 AM

Are you OCing at all? Thats LimitedSharpenFaster right?

jamieuk23

08-21-06, 10:11 AM

Are you OCing at all? Thats LimitedSharpenFaster right?

no mate I havent stepped in to the world of overclocking yet. I am using the standard limited sharpen.. is there any advantage of limited sharpen faster against the standard build ?

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 10:46 AM

no mate I havent stepped in to the world of overclocking yet. I am using the standard limited sharpen.. is there any advantage of limited sharpen faster against the standard build ?
There is actually no reason to use limited sharpen since LimitedsharpenFaster gives you exactly the same quality and its MUCH faster. Try this script:

SetMTMode(2)

MT("HQDN3D(1)")

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=300,wide=true, overshoot=0)")

It works great eith my infocus 4805.

PS I recommend to use Lanzos 2 not 4 as the latter one creates to many artifacts.

Waters_10

08-21-06, 11:09 AM

Luis,

Do you resize after LSF? I'm very impressed that an Opteron 165@3Ghz can do a ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5 LSF! What's your cpu usage? Temps? That's the type of result I was hoping to get with a C2D ...

jamieuk23

08-21-06, 11:20 AM

would this be the ideal order to run everythign threw FFFDSHOW

resize x2
denoise3d
limitedsharpen faster

??

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 11:30 AM

Actually I can do up to 2.2 supersampling IF I dont use the wife=true option but I found that my current setting gives me better image quality and spares me some cpu cycles. I guess you are not very familiar with Opterons are you? You shouldnt be surprised at all, Opterons are very powerful CPUs just not as powerful it seems as your DUO for most things. I havent checked much on the load so let me run a movie and check a histogram to tell you better. I know I have issues with one core been at 50 and the other one barely touched so I need to balance the load better somehow.

Waters_10

08-21-06, 11:39 AM

I guess you are not very familiar with Opterons are you? You shouldnt be surprised at all, Opterons are very powerful CPUs just not as powerful it seems as your DUO for most things.
I actually own an opteron overclocked to 2.7Ghz, but it's a single core. But in any case, I'm very familiar with this family of cpu's. I don't own a Core Duo, I'm just considering it. I know it's faster on most benchies, but there's been very few user reports on how core2 duo handle ffdshow/avisynth.

And, are you resizing after LSF or not? Heatsink? Temps?

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 12:00 PM

I actually own an opteron overclocked to 2.7Ghz, but it's a single core. But in any case, I'm very familiar with this family of cpu's. I don't own a Core Duo, I'm just considering it. I know it's faster on most benchies, but there's been very few user reports on how core2 duo handle ffdshow/avisynth.

And, are you resizing after LSF or not? Heatsink? Temps?
I am at work so I cant check that but my heat sink is a Scythe Ninja with a big and loud Delta 120mm fan (152cfm). There is no need to resize since I am using supersampling already. After that I let my video card send the pixel match 854x480 resolution to my projector.
BTW, I used to gave a 3400NC OCed to 2.75 and the opteron blows it out of the water in any respect. Im a big AMD fan but I am sure the DUO should handle ffdshow at least as good as my Opteron (depending on the DUO speed of course). Let me get back home and I will post my temp and load.

dwellingheresy

08-21-06, 01:23 PM

Hi there,
I just tried a couple of new settings:
- using ffdshow_rev2546_t63_20060812 now (newest File that explicitly states SSE§ support?!) - doesn't seem to make a difference
- disablingf MT doesn't really make a difference, except: first core only uses 10-20% (could be progs in the back) second one still at above 90
- resizing after avisynth greatly improves performance, but does the opposite to image Quality
- I can't seem to get a 2x resize to work from within avisynth --> any help??
- tried some other stuff, like disabling Hqdn3d..... which sucks regarding IQ

IQ wise best settings for me are at the moment (!!):
lancos resize 3x 2tap
Avisynth
SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(1)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=100,wide=true, overshoot=0)")

...but speed doesn't work out...

Also I tried sth new: since disabling all but yv12 in avisynth gave me a "hazy" picture, I enabled RGB32 in Avisynth, enabled RGB32 + HQ YV12 to RGB conversion and I used Level to map video levels (16-235) to PC Levels 0-255 using modify only luminance and full range...
....don't aks me how I got to these settings... sort of a "spirit of the moment" thing ;-)
But on my CRT the grey bars above the black bars have disappeared and color looks good!

Regards

Steffen

PS: For testing I use Superbit: Fifth Element (NTSC) starting at 00:30:00, here's what I look for:
- Detail on soldiers arms
- jaggies in the Tunnel (seems to be one of the hardest scenes!!!)
- Face Detail when standing at the wall
- how 3D do the cars look (especially when the Police Car turns around)
- how far can you look, how much detail is "in the back of the picture"
- how detailed is the "filth" and fingerprints on the window in the cab

There you have pretty much everything in one less than 5 minute benchmark ;-)

Waters_10

08-21-06, 01:55 PM

lancos resize 3x 2tap
Avisynth
SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(1)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=100,wide=true, overshoot=0)")

...but speed doesn't work out...
What happens if you remove the resize? Can your CPU handle the load?

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 02:27 PM

IQ wise best settings for me are at the moment (!!):
lancos resize 3x 2tap
Avisynth
SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(1)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=100,wide=true, overshoot=0)")

...but speed doesn't work out...

That call looks pretty much like mine except for lower strenght. Why do you want to resize and apply supersampling? I will just do one or the other if I were you. The way you are doing it now really kills your CPU I am sure. Try both and pick the one you like more...I am sure you can get the same effect of sharpness that lan2 may giv you by using a little more strenght in LSF. I have tried both ways and like supersampling a bit more.
Regards

BoomerBrian

08-21-06, 02:31 PM

That call looks pretty much like mine except for lower strenght. Why do you want to resize and apply supersampling? I will just do one or the other if I were you. The way you are doing it now really kills your CPU I am sure. Try both and pick the one you like more...I am sure you can get the same effect of sharpness that lan2 may giv you by using a little more strenght in LSF. I have tried both ways and like supersampling a bit more.
Regards

Excuse my ignorance but what is Supersampling?

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 03:35 PM

Supersampling (http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/faqs/kb/10,72.html)
Basically it get rids of the artifacts that LimitedSharpen may create otherwise. I found the image to look much better this way than using a resize before LimitedSharpen. Also you can use the function "dest_x=" within the LS call in order to end up with the resolution you want.

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 03:51 PM

What happens if you remove the resize? Can your CPU handle the load?
No it cant. I can do 3x after LS but not before.

Try this:

SetMTMode(2)

MT("HQDN3D(1)")

MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=3,lmode=2,stren gth=300, overshoot=0)",3)

Adding that ,3 at the end of LSF seems to make my dual core handle the load more evenly. So much that I can even use supersampling 2.0 and still not get more than 72% load! Awesome :)

Answering your previous questions:
CPU load is 42C.
And it fluctuates most of the time from 45%-50% with some quick max at 52%. Before adding that ",3" I was getting about 64% max.
Regards

BoomerBrian

08-21-06, 03:54 PM

dwellingheresy

08-21-06, 07:18 PM

So,
again I played a little with my settings....
Actually I didn't really think about a conflict between supersampling and resize...
...as far as I understand "the Guide" both together should be applied for "Type B Computer"...
I did a really quick comparison between LS and Resize, and I think the picture with resize is clearer and "more 3D" ?! Since I had problems (error messages) using just noisereduction in avisynth, now my new settings are:
-resize 4x (!) 2tap luma 1,2
-Denoise3dHQ 0/2/4
- all set to yv12 again

..so pretty much exactly as in the guide for "entry level PC" (even though I don't seem to belong in that class) except the resize 4x...

Graphics Card settings are 8xQ AA and 16x AF and Verticalsync...
...eventhough I still don't understand what my Direct3d settings have to do with Theatertek....?!?!?

This setup gives me an uneven distribution between the cores, loads between 45 and 75% and a smooth, clean and 3D Picture...
... resize and LS is still better as far as I can tell.. but since it doesn't work properly, I don't have a choice...
Picture Quality IS better than standard Theatertek DXVA !!

A little sharpening would be nice though.... still not happy with the lumasharpen (-setting) in Resize. I sort of liked mplayer hq sharpening, but it's not tolerable in it's artifacts... but the things it does good it does really good... but the sideeffects are way to much!!!

So if nobody confronts me with new ideas / settings which I should try out / are recommended, than I'll just watch a few movies that aren't as high quality as Fifth Element Superbit... to find a good setting for sharpening...

..still don't understand why fddshow+avisynth brings my cpu down to its knees...

Regards

Steffen

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-21-06, 08:44 PM

dwelling,
try this:

SetMTMode(2)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=2,ss_y=2,Smode=3,lmode=2,strength= 3000, overshoot=0)",3)
MT("colormatrix()",3)
MT("HQDN3D(1)",3)
By using the denoiser after LFS you are essentially leaving more data for LSF to sharpen and then the denoiser cleans the "trash". Its harder on the cpu but I like the looks a lot.
This call script is a bit extreme in strenght due to the 2x supersampling.
You can also do the same to my previous call script using 1.5 supersampling and just put the denoiser at the end of the script.
I am sure the added sharpness will make you forget about the resize option.
BTW, you do realize that resize 4x is a BIG thing. I dont think my CPU can take that unless I use basic ffdshow only filters.
Just give a try to this script I posted or my previous one without using anyother ffdshow filters and let me know please.
Regards

UPDATE this is now my FAVORITE:

1.5 x resize lanzos 4(i know its not recommended but I like it here) lume .50
and this avisynth:

MT("a = last

b=a
SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=1, NRlimit2=4, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=16, Spower=10, SdampLo=6, Szp=16)",3)

dwellingheresy

08-22-06, 10:32 AM

Since I just started fooling around with seesaw, and lancos + seesaw gives me an even better Picture:
How do I script LanczosResize within Avisynth...
...I can't find a file listing all the possible commands on the net, and I can't figure it out myself.

Here is what I want

Lanczos Resize 2times and 2 tap with 0,6Lumasharpen, accurate rounding and no aspect ratio change.... and the whole thing in MT ;-)

So MT("LanczosResize( ...???????.....)

Please help me.... I'm so close to the perfect picture...

..at least for FifthElement...
;-)

Regards

Steffen

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-22-06, 10:50 AM

I think we should take this to the Seesaw thread :-)

arfster

08-22-06, 12:41 PM

So MT("LanczosResize( ...???????.....)

You can't multithread a lanczosresize command, avisynth will refuse. No problem though, just do it outside MT.

The real problem is that avisynth lanczos is much less efficient than ffdshow's. Likely not a problem if you're doing a *2 resize, but the hit from *3 in avisynth is plain brutal (after all, it's 9x the number of pixels rather than 4x)

dwellingheresy

08-22-06, 12:59 PM

Mmmmh,
for now I used
MT("Lanczosresize(1280,980)") which works but gives me an errormessage which "MT: function changed height try using splitvertical=true"

...but I don't know how to try splitvertical=true...
...or does this just mean that MT doesn't work with lanczos??

If it's just that: how do I script resize in avisynth?

Regards

Steffen

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-22-06, 01:13 PM

Cant use the MT call with lanczos you need to use SetMTMode(?) and then follow with the lanzos call. THe problem is that it kind of messes up my more balanced load for dual cores.

dwellingheresy

08-22-06, 06:37 PM

Hi Luis,
first of all thanks for all your help!
I just tried your last settings with 2x Supersampling and denoise after LS - gives me loads around 70% (a little more on the second core / a little less on the first) and a nice Picture.... but still resizing does it for me - especially excessive resizing or resizing combined with seesaw or LSF ...but as I said: CPU doesn't like it...

So how exactly do I go and put my desired settings of Lanczos in Avisynth?
Where can I find a list of the possible commands for it?

What is Colormatrix.... gives me an "unknown plugin" error....!?!?

Why not use excessive resizing and basic ffdshow filters instead of avisynth? What should I try?

Regards

Steffen

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-22-06, 06:59 PM

Why not use excessive resizing and basic ffdshow filters instead of avisynth? What should I try?
Because in reality avisynth scripts are much more advanced and prevent most of the artifacts common filters (specially sharpening ones) will create. At the end of the day, its you who needs to be pleased not me so trust your eyes :-)
Colormatrix needs to be put into your plugins. Its a dll and you need to load it. Still, I am still debating if its any good right now.
Have you tried my latest Seesaw script...I really like that one.

Waters_10

08-22-06, 07:35 PM

but still resizing does it for me - especially excessive resizing or resizing combined with seesaw or LSF ...but as I said: CPU doesn't like it...
If you like resizing the best, it might be a good idea to use Andy's SSE2 Preview ffdshow version. A lot of people say it provides faster resizing than other ffdshow versions.

ORPhD

08-23-06, 10:01 AM

If you like resizing the best, it might be a good idea to use Andy's SSE2 Preview ffdshow version. A lot of people say it provides faster resizing than other ffdshow versions.

Actually, I'll throw another option out there (one mentioned fairly frequently in the ffdshow FAQ): one of Celtic Druid's ffdshow builds, found here (http://dvd.box.sk/index.php?pid=soft&prj=info&rid=8190). I'll briefly explain.

Celtic Druid's builds have become the "official unofficial" builds, endorsed by Milan Cutka (primary dev of ffdshow). I'm having trouble loading the page at the moment, but I've been using the most recent SSE build. The performance improvement I have seen is amazing.

I don't use any denoise (which I hear is a weakness in the CD build, and a strength in Andy's), but for just resize and LSF, the improvement was drastic. Under Andy's build, there was no way I could do a resize anything past 1.5x (and as a result, usually went with 1024x576, my display's native res). Often, this took me up to at least 75-80% CPU on a Athlon64 3000. With the CD build that dropped to about 40-45%, allowing me to now resize up to 2x with ease.

After all the positive feedback the Andy build gets, I was hesitant to try another. After alot of reading to convince myself it was worth it, I'm very glad I made the switch.

jamieuk23

08-23-06, 10:05 AM

this can be quite confusing and with scripts released and then changes and settings etc all the way threw this 10000000000 thread post.

Is there any update to which settings to use please ?? been trying to configure limitedsharpen for the last 2 days and cant seem to get it running.

do I use limtedsharpen or limtedsharpenfaster or seesaw my mind is going to crumble !

If any one could help me out that would be great

Andy Lammer

08-23-06, 10:42 AM

Check the forum sticky for Jeremy's instruction on getting ffdshow & LimitedSharpen setup.
Check the Seesaw thread for instructions on SeeSaw setup.
Both are easy-to-follow & concise guides.

SeeSaw is a hot-topic and its tunings/settings evolve daily based on user experiences !

- Andy

Waters_10

08-23-06, 12:13 PM

I don't use any denoise (which I hear is a weakness in the CD build, and a strength in Andy's), but for just resize and LSF, the improvement was drastic. Under Andy's build, there was no way I could do a resize anything past 1.5x (and as a result, usually went with 1024x576, my display's native res). Often, this took me up to at least 75-80% CPU on a Athlon64 3000. With the CD build that dropped to about 40-45%, allowing me to now resize up to 2x with ease.
Ok, I'll give it a shot tonight! But can you point exactly which version did you use? The link you provided is for a 2005-06-11 version. Is that the one you're talking about? There are links to other versions, but it's not clear if all of them are Celtic Druid's versions and some of them are from 2006, so not exactly previous versions as it's written there. So, some clarification would be great!

Thanks

ORPhD

08-23-06, 01:03 PM

Sorry I can't post the link to the exact one I used, but for some reason I just cannot get that page to load here at work. I wanted to link directly to the one I used in my previous post.

They should all be Celtic Druid builds. From that list of builds, I chose the most recent SSE one. It was from 5/22/2006. That's the one I'm using.

EDIT: Fixed the version now that I can load the page from home.

TforTuna

08-23-06, 01:13 PM

Sorry I can't post the link to the exact one I used, but for some reason I just cannot get that page to load here at work. I wanted to link directly to the one I used in my previous post.

They should all be Celtic Druid builds. From that list of builds, I chose the most recent SSE one. It was from mid-late 2005, I believe. That's the one I'm using.

Link (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/)
Right click link and save as (http://matroska.at.infoseek.co.jp/mirror/ffdshow/ffdshow-rev2546-SSE2.exe)

ORPhD

08-23-06, 04:12 PM

Here (http://dvd.box.sk/index.php?pid=soft&prj=info&rid=8334) is a link to the one i use. It's dated two weeks later than the other one.

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-23-06, 04:13 PM

Are these the new ones slightly faster for dual cores that Ive heard about?

N3W813

08-23-06, 04:20 PM

TforTuna,
Your forgot to add....

If you plan on using MT, you will need to replace the avisynth.dll in your %systemroot%\windows\system32 directory with the one from MT_05.zip.

MT (http://www.avisynth.org/tsp/MT_05.zip)

:)

vome

08-23-06, 05:42 PM

N3W813

08-23-06, 05:49 PM

Hi, I have a question regarding avisynth. I tried using it on my computer with resize according to the guide that is sticky on the front page. However, whenever I play a file on MPC, the video lags but the audio plays fine. I'm wondering if it is my video card or cpu that is bottlenecking the system. My computer specs are the following:

ASUS Motherboard P4P800
Pentium 4 Northwood 3.0 GHz OC to 3.3 GHz
Corsair CMX512-3200LL DDR400 (2x512mb)
EVGA Geforce FX 5900 flashed to 5950Ultra AGP 510/950

I can use resize and blur & nr together. I can also use avisynth alone without resize. I also cannot play files with resolution 1280x720 without lagging when using resize and blur & nr or avisynth alone. Would an upgrade for the video card allow me to use avisynth and resize?

This is my code for avisynth:

SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)")

Thanks.

When your video lags, that means the CPU can't keep up and is dropping frames. Ffdshow and avisynth use only your CPU and not your vidoe card. Your CPU will definitely not be able to resize 1280x720 sources with resize and avisynth. Not alot of consumer CPUs on the market right now can do it out-of-the-box.

Most users here are using it on DVDs (720x480). Some people use simple denoise on HD sources (1280x720p or higher), but rarely do they also use resize or limitedsharpen unless they have a superfast CPU.

vome

08-23-06, 06:01 PM

I hoped it would be the video card that is causing the lag since that's easier to upgrade but I guess I'm stuck with one choice. What would the better post processing tool to use, resize with blur & nr or avisynth?

TforTuna

08-24-06, 12:39 AM

This is my code for avisynth:

SetMTMode(2)
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)")
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)")

Try this one.
MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)",3)

Make sure there is no spaces in the code.

vome

08-24-06, 01:40 AM

I'm using this now:

MT("SPresso(2, 20, 4)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)",3)

It lags less than:

MT("HQDN3D(0.0,2,0.0,4)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=100, overshoot=1)",3)

I'm able to to use avisynth and resize but the video stops once in a while and return to normal.

Slammy1

08-24-06, 05:15 AM

I have the same system as you do (except 1.5GB KHX3500 and a 9700Pro - soon to be x850xt). I think the key is using the correct ffdshow based on other P4P800 mine and other users experience here. The winner seems to be Andy's preview, I've tried many different versions of ffdshow and that seems to hold. ffdshow-20040801a_preview_SSE2.exe. Sorry I don't have the link.

vome

08-24-06, 06:17 PM

I tried the ffdshow-20040801a_preview_SSE2.exe but still got the same result. I even OC the CPU to 3.6 GHz.

Is it better to use MT or not?

camoura

08-26-06, 03:31 PM

BTW, sorry for the huge attachment. When I reduced the size, the jaggies diappeared!

Oh - and one other thing: did anyone ever figure out where that horizontal line across the middle of the picture comes from? Seems like some versions of masktools have it and some don't. I've got 2.0.27 in at the moment, and, as you can see, it has the line! But I'm not completely sure that masktools alone is to blame.

Mike

I can see the horizontal line as well. Does anybody know how to get rid of it?

Edit: Never mind. I just replaced mt_masktools.dll with the latest (2.0a29) build. Line is gone.

Phil Smith

08-28-06, 12:53 PM

I just upgraded my HTPC (E6600, new MB, video card, hard drive, etc.). I downloaded all the suggested items from the LSF and Seesaw sticky thread. I'm not getting ffdshow to work. No OSD--nothing. I was using the Andy's build with my old HTPC and it worked fine. What version would be best for a Core 2 E6600?

ORPhD

08-28-06, 02:58 PM

What software are you using for playback, and what codecs are you using?

Phil Smith

08-28-06, 04:02 PM

jidelite

08-28-06, 05:07 PM

Dave, TT2.4, nvidia codex (I think). I have "Raw Video; All supported". That was the problem last time I went thru this. I've looked and looked for something that's not configured right, but I'm not finding anything.

Phil,
Did you go to the File Type Tab in TheaterTek and check all your files you plan to do post processing on?

jidelite

BoomerBrian

08-28-06, 05:22 PM

Phil,
Did you go to the File Type Tab in TheaterTek and check all your files you plan to do post processing on?

jidelite

This is probably it. I had the same issue when I tried TT.

Phil Smith

08-28-06, 06:36 PM

I bet I didn't! I've failed to do that in the past as well. I'll check that this evening. Thanks for pointing it out!

I need to write this stuff down. I think it has a shelf life of about 1 week in my head. After a week, if it's still residing in my brain at all, it's hopelessly lost. :D

Mr.Bitey

08-28-06, 08:34 PM

Just a word of advice for people swapping and changing ffdshow's:

Uninstall, then delete the ffdshow directory. Reboot and then install the new one. If you dont you might end up with a mongrel install that will be choppy even when you go back to a 'good' version.

Ive also had the situation where installing a particular version of ffdshow permanently ruined my ffdshowing :( - I needed to restore from a previous ghost-image.

For my system (Asus p4p800-e dlx mobo, northwood p4 HT 3.0@3.44) Andy's SSE preview gives me the best performance. ALL the other versions ive tried (and ive tried a lot) perform worse (including the sse2 "multithreading" version - which I think only multithreads when your using the libravcodec to decode video)...

Recently Tried (and gone back to Andy's):
-ffdshow-2546-gcc4.0.3-sse.zip
-ffdshow-20060803-SSE.zip
-ffdshow-rev2546-SSE2.zip

Cheers,
Bitey

Phil Smith

08-28-06, 09:27 PM

Checking the proper file types in TT2 did the trick! I guess I should mention for future reference that "full screen" has to be checked for ffdshow to work. I already had it checked, but unchecked it (along with a lot of other things) because I was having color problems.

The color problem solution, which I found on the TT2 forum, was to check YUY2 only (uncheck all others) in the output section of ffdshow. The output menu is in the overlay section, which is confusing when you're using VMR9. I didn't think it would have an effect, but it did. It fixed the color problem.

The other confusing thing is that I had a color problem at all. Before I upgraded my HTPC, it worked fine with YU12. Now it prefers YUY2. Anyone know what determines that?

Bitey,

What is it about Andy's version of ffdshow works better for you? That's what I was using, but it's 2 years old, so you would think a lot of improvement would have been achieved in that length of time. I thought I'd give the newer versions a try.

Slammy1

08-29-06, 04:16 AM

I've been playing with AVIsynth for a while and more recently delved deeper. It strikes me that the native filters on ffdshow do a dramatically better job of cleaning up the image, I seem to get a lot of macroblocking with AVIsynth. This is what I've been running which seems to give the best results of what I've tried:
MT("SPresso(limit=8, limitC=8, bias=100, biasC=100, RGmode=1, RGmodeC=17)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=80,o vershoot=1)",3)
Resize 2.9x VMR9 renderless YV12 color space

I can't seem to run SeeSaw nor RemoveGrain due to stuttering/freeze issues. Any recommendations for better settings? On a related note, I can't seem to resize past ca 2.95. I'm running DScaler5, ZPP, and Andy's build (for hardware details, see Mr. Bitey's specs). I thought it was my video card, but I recently upgraded to an x850 and have the same issue. TIA.

BoomerBrian

08-29-06, 07:43 AM

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if maybe we should start another thread where everyone just posts their ffdshow,avisynth settings and what type of display they are using. After trying several of your settings I found that most of them were too extreme for my PJ. For example Limited Sharpen Faster with a strength of 80 is just way too much for my display but seems to be a common setting for most of you. Probably due to the image being displayed at 100". I am starting to wonder if most of you are using lcd tv, plasmas, etc.. and not pjs. Anyway just a suggestion. If starting a new thread is out of the question then at least please post what type of display you are using when posting your settings.

Thanks,
Brian

arfster

08-29-06, 09:14 AM

BoomerBrian

08-29-06, 10:14 AM

Strength of sharpening is very dependant on the display, and to a lesser degree denoising. Also, your eyes, lighting and choice of movies will affect it.

You have to fiddle the settings strength to your preferences, there is no universally correct setting.

That is why I suggested everyone at least state what display they are using. For example I have a Sanyo Z1 projector so if someone else had that same projector they could at least have somewhere to start. It may save them some time with trying everyones settings.

Luis Gabriel Gerena

08-29-06, 01:24 PM

N3W813

08-29-06, 06:45 PM

There used to be such a thread but it might be in the archives now.

Here is the thread...

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=447500&page=1&pp=30

Mr.Bitey

08-29-06, 11:17 PM

Bitey,
What is it about Andy's version of ffdshow works better for you? That's what I was using, but it's 2 years old, so you would think a lot of improvement would have been achieved in that length of time. I thought I'd give the newer versions a try.

Smoothness of playback - the newer versions all introduce stuttering/chop.. Im right on the limit of my cpu so even a tiny bit makes a difference - Andy's version is just quicker! - Im only using resize (lanczos tap2 to 1776x1000) and avisynth.. Andy's version just works best for me :)

Cheers,
Bitey

scotty144

08-30-06, 06:08 AM

Could someone post a link to the download of Andy's version? From memory...I tried his version but there was no resize option available in it?????

Phil Smith

08-30-06, 09:19 AM

I think this is it: http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/ffdshow-20040801a_preview_SSE2.exe

I'm not having any problems with the latest version, so I guess I'll stick with it. I have a lot of CPU power now, so I probably don't need to run Andy's version anymore.

adams828

09-05-06, 07:22 PM

Okay.. I still keep getting the following error:

Script error: there is no function name "mt_average"
(xr++xoxso, line 77)
(ffdshow_filter_avisynth_script, line3)

Help!

Mr.Bitey

09-06-06, 07:46 PM

adams828,

Sounds like youve got an old version of mt_masktools.dll in your plugins dorectory (or dont have it at all). Grab the latest version and chuck it in and you should be apples. (I think its currently 30?)

Cheers,
Bitey

aquarian

09-29-06, 06:36 AM

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\decomb.dll")
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\asharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\colormatrix.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\mt_masktools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\masktools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\awarpsharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\degrainmedian.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\RemoveGrain.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Repair.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins\SeeSaw.avs")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LimitedSharpen.avs")
mpeg2source("D:\ddha.d2v")

Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate()

crop(4,44,696,384)
LimitedSharpen(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=3,strength=40)
LanczosResize(640,352)
ColorMatrix()
fielddeinterlace()
Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate()
a= last
b=a.degrainmedian(mode=2)
SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=2, NRlimit2=1, Sstr=1.0, Slimit=7, Spower=10, Sdamplo=8, SdampHi=10, Szp=10, bias=1, sootheT=30)

my script is above and i am getting the following error
error:import:couldn't open C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Limitedsharpen.avs"
i tried everything step by stpe as writting in posts .
thanx for help

mikesusangray

09-29-06, 06:48 AM

my script is above and i am getting the following error
error:import:couldn't open C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Limitedsharpen.avs"
i tried everything step by stpe as writting in posts .
thanx for help

- Do you have LimitedSharpen in your plugins directory?

- Is it possible that you have actually copied in LimitedSharpenFaster?

- A good bet is just to change the .avs to .avsi so that it loads automatically and you don't even have to do an import.

- Last thought: if you're running ffdshow you shouldn't need to use an mpeg2source line.

Best,

Mike

aquarian

09-29-06, 07:02 AM

- Do you have LimitedSharpen in your plugins directory?

- Is it possible that you have actually copied in LimitedSharpenFaster?

- A good bet is just to change the .avs to .avsi so that it loads automatically and you don't even have to do an import.

- Last thought: if you're running ffdshow you shouldn't need to use an mpeg2source line.

Best,

Mike

First thanx for reply
yes i do have LImitedSharpen in plungin folder .
i changed .avs to .avsi but still same error
n lastly i m not running ffdshow .

hannisen

10-22-06, 05:39 AM

I have just about given up on using any avisynth scripts at all, they just won't work well for me. I upgraded to a X2 4600+ (overclocked to 2570mhz / core), but I can't get LSF or any other script to work well after a resize. I'm not happy with how it looks if I use it before the resize, so that's currently not an option.

It feels like I've tried everything; several ffdshow builds (including Andy's), different output methods, different MT settings. The results I'm getting are really bad, it's not near full playback speeds. It's like there's something major I'm missing, because I can't even resize to 2x (without using any avisynth scripts) without everything lagging terribly.

If ANYONE have ANY suggestions, I'd be willing to try anything out.

Thanks,
Johannes

Mr.Bitey

10-22-06, 10:19 PM

Have you tried overlay rather than VMR9 ?

What script are you using?

What video card do you have?

Whats your cpu usage when your seeing this poor performace?

Cheers,
Bitey

treedmack

10-23-06, 08:49 AM

Have you tried overlay rather than VMR9 ?

What script are you using?

What video card do you have?

Whats your cpu usage when your seeing this poor performace?

Cheers,
Bitey

Good point.

hannisen I have a similar experience. I have X2 4400. For modest resolutions I can use avisynth. However, using avisynth after resize causes the stutter etc. you describe - especially when I try seesaw. I have also tried numerous builds etc. of ffdshow.

The curious thing is that my cpus do funny things. Like work at 50-75% for a few seconds (not near 100%) then cut out to zero for a short time, then work for a few second then cut out again over and over. I never see 100% cpu with this problem. It's like there is another problem going on.

Does this sound familiar at all? I've only experienced this behavior with avisynth. All other filters in ffdshow, if abused, will eventually make my cpu hit 100% and I then get problems - not this intermittent cutting out of the cpu well before 100% is reached.

safi

05-31-07, 08:09 PM

Hi. i am new to this side and i realy want to learn this arth, and i need yours help. i want to know which V of ffdshow i have to install and same with avisynth. and which software for rip. megui or something else.

Bjur

07-27-07, 08:09 AM

Hi, I was not able to read all 32 pages, but could someone tell me which is best to use, LimitedSharpened or Seesaw and give the updated values. Would really appreciate it:) Thanks.

Bjur

07-29-07, 04:31 PM

Anyone

ORPhD

07-29-07, 07:01 PM

There is rarely a "best" as all situations are different.

My understanding/recollection is SeeSaw is more powerful but (considerably) more CPU intensive. I think the overall feeling is that if you can run SeeSaw, you should. However, I know some have complained about SeeSaw adding an unnatural appearance. Of course, that's a matter of opinion.

Personally, I don't have the CPU chops to run it, so I don't. I've enjoyed LSF for a while.

You might get more help by posting in the sticky thread.

Typhoon859

02-01-09, 01:33 AM

I have the latest version of FFDShow installed, I have all the necessary dll files in the plugins folder and I have the LimitedSharpen AVS but no matter with which player I play files that use FFDShow, it crashes when I have AVISynth turned on. I tried deleting the code to see if it was the problem but it crashes, I think, just from the fact that I turn on AVISynth. I have version 2.5.7 of AVISynth. What could be the problem?

EDIT: Wow, I just realized how old this thread is. Sorry for reviving it. This is the first time ever that I'm dealing with AVS scripts so sorry for being a noob. This thread is just what Google brought up for me when searching for upscaling videos.