easalpad,
As I understand it the HDMI DOES NOT allow a full resolution output to the component connections. The purpose of the digital connection is to allow only the compiant equipment to see the full resolution output. The component connection is not allowed to be "licensed" by tying something else to the HDMI.

TerryB

Thanks, TerryB. Just to clarify, I'm not trying to 'ride' on the HDMI connection - I've got a HDMI out on the SA8300HD and a component out - I want to use both and the 8300 should be passing data to both simultaneously, they should be separate, but I can't confrim that.

If what you mean is that once the 8300 goes into 'digital out' mode, e.g. sending data to the HDMI, it clips all data going to the analog components - ok.

Sounds like there may either be room for growth in the HDMI spec or room for advancement in the box... Thanks for the insights.

Easelpad,
I was only speaking of the purpose of the HDMI port and copy protect function. The name of the game is set up a connection (HDMI) which requires that two computers negotiate a high definition digital protocol connection based on the fact that the receiving equipment knows all the rules of the protocol which prevent unauthorized copies and so on. It prevents any high def outputs which cannot be verified to the same rules. So, you can't have the analog HD signal at the same time as the digital HDMI.

TerryB

About a dozen posts back, I attached a pic - A graphical range of values for a GOOD base of signal levels. Green is good, Yellow is getting bad and Red WILL FAIL. Each channel will have different RF frequencies, so values will change for different channels.
As an aside, I can't get the same levels in one of my spare bedrooms due to what I believe, the builder put a nail through a cable. The high end is shot all to hell and I can't get signals stable over about 200 MHZ. Only solution is for me to pull a new cable, but since its for guests overstaying their welcome - screw em!

vegggas

You are lucky, when I first moved into our newly built home, I was wiring stuff together where all the cables meet outdoors by the garage. One of the cables would bang and spark with touched against the metal housing! Called the electrician and the problem was isolated by tearing up drywall through the garage to the family room. Turned out a nail was driven through the cable in the braided shied and then into a hot electrical romex cord! Good thing I never hooked a TV to this outlet before all this.

TerryB,

I added this Tip to the first post a long time ago based on kloarizona's personal experence. Are you saying this no longer works?
It should be noted that the 8300HD can also be connected to one device via HDMI and to another device via Component at the same time. In fact, a local member has it connected through a Geffen 4x1 DVI swither, and a 45 foot DVI cable, to his Marantz VP12S3. While this is supposed to be way beyond DVI specs, it has worked flawlessly. This same 8300 is also connected via Component cables to a W-VHS deck for permanent archiving. (kloarizona)

You are lucky, when I first moved into our newly built home, I was wiring stuff together where all the cables meet outdoors by the garage. One of the cables would bang and spark with touched against the metal housing! Called the electrician and the problem was isolated by tearing up drywall through the garage to the family room. Turned out a nail was driven through the cable in the braided shied and then into a hot electrical romex cord! Good thing I never hooked a TV to this outlet before all this.
This is all way too common anymore... Most builders let any yahoo run cable lines with no thought to the way it is run, or how it will work. People move in and then blame the cable co for the signal problems - go figure. Those with DBS Dishes usually run new cabling because what's in the home isn't up to snuff, but they figure it's "OK" for cable - Not really.


Here are some of the levels I see on my box............
My current FDC -6 to -8 , s/n 27 75.5Mhz - Forward Data Carrier from Headend to your STB at a frequency of 75.5Mhz - Looks good enough at first, but the Signal level, compared to Noise level is at a failing level. Anything below about 32 is a problem. It looks like a cheap amp, coax surge protector, bad ground may be the culprit. Anyway, at 75.5Mhz, there is a lot of noise that could be causing serious problems with guide data and instructions getting to your box.

Current RDC power 42 16.0 Mhz Return Data Carrier - Signal strength needed to make it BACK to the Headend. Again, this is way too high and almost at a failing/clipping level. Same culprits above are affecting the pathway in both directions. You need return paths for IPG communication requesting data or VOD navigation. Signals trying to get back here are amplified at an extremely high level (max is considered 45, whereas 40 or less is more acceptable). Think of a boombox battery operated stereo and you are trying to hear it 100ft away. It may be ok at half volume if there is no external noise (quiet night nothing else around) and nothing but empty space between you and the boom box. Now add a few houses and a busy road between you and the boombox. You have to turn up the volume to near max to even be able to hear it, and then it's distorted. Playing the boombox at near max volume for prolong periods will overheat the box and make it sound worse and worse, so it tries to turn up the volume more and more, etc.

Current QAM -6 dBmV s/n 35 567 Mhz The upper frequencies appear ok. Decent signal levels, and GOOD Signal to Noise Level. As cable lengths increase, your higher frequency levels decrease, but in this case, it's ok. If this were the same levels across all frequencies, then all would be good. This is typically the OPPOSITE types of signals from a bad run from the cable company, and more like a physical wiring problem locally. Problems at lower frequencies are usually related to bad contacts, wheras low frequencies cant jump across a small gap, but higher frequencies can. This can either in the residence, or at times at the tap at the street level. I would make sure there is no equipment, connectors, sucked out fittings (center conductor is pulled in), barrel connectors or splitters with stretched out center cable pins, etc.
You can make and re-establish and swap out connections while watching (allow 5 sec for updates) to see if any cabling or adapters makes any difference.

CATV/MATV 101 class over... ;)

vegggas

This is all way too common anymore... Most builders let any yahoo run cable lines with no thought to the way it is run, or how it will work. People move in and then blame the cable co for the signal problems - go figure. Those with DBS Dishes usually run new cabling because what's in the home isn't up to snuff, but they figure it's "OK" for cable - Not really.


- Forward Data Carrier from Headend to your STB at a frequency of 75.5Mhz - Looks good enough at first, but the Signal level, compared to Noise level is at a failing level. Anything below about 32 is a problem. It looks like a cheap amp, coax surge protector, bad ground may be the culprit. Anyway, at 75.5Mhz, there is a lot of noise that could be causing serious problems with guide data and instructions getting to your box.

Return Data Carrier - Signal strength needed to make it BACK to the Headend. Again, this is way too high and almost at a failing/clipping level. Same culprits above are affecting the pathway in both directions. You need return paths for IPG communication requesting data or VOD navigation. Signals trying to get back here are amplified at an extremely high level (max is considered 45, whereas 40 or less is more acceptable). Think of a boombox battery operated stereo and you are trying to hear it 100ft away. It may be ok at half volume if there is no external noise (quiet night nothing else around) and nothing but empty space between you and the boom box. Now add a few houses and a busy road between you and the boombox. You have to turn up the volume to near max to even be able to hear it, and then it's distorted. Playing the boombox at near max volume for prolong periods will overheat the box and make it sound worse and worse, so it tries to turn up the volume more and more, etc.

The upper frequencies appear ok. Decent signal levels, and GOOD Signal to Noise Level. As cable lengths increase, your higher frequency levels decrease, but in this case, it's ok. If this were the same levels across all frequencies, then all would be good. This is typically the OPPOSITE types of signals from a bad run from the cable company, and more like a physical wiring problem locally. Problems at lower frequencies are usually related to bad contacts, wheras low frequencies cant jump across a small gap, but higher frequencies can. This can either in the residence, or at times at the tap at the street level. I would make sure there is no equipment, connectors, sucked out fittings (center conductor is pulled in), barrel connectors or splitters with stretched out center cable pins, etc.
You can make and re-establish and swap out connections while watching (allow 5 sec for updates) to see if any cabling or adapters makes any difference.

CATV/MATV 101 class over... ;)

vegggas

Gee, with all these problems with cabling, I can't wait for the "Wireless Cable TV Services from Sprint" :D :D :D :D :D :D

DoubleDAZ,
I can't personally vouch for this condition, I have no HDMI gear here. I have read several posts complaining that the component outputs are not good for HD output when an HDMI connection is in use. I apologize if I have mis-remembered the situation.

TerryB

No, not at all, TerryB, you may be right. It may be that some setups work and others don't. I don't have an HDMI connection either and I'm not going to invest in a cable just to test things. I often rely on things folks send me for inclusion in the first post without being able to test them for myself. This is the first I've heard this may not always work, but I think I'll add a caveat to the first post so there are no misunderstandings.

I have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300 HD Digital Cable Box/DVR and a Sony KV-27FS100. I have optimized all the settings for the TV with Avia and gone into the service menu to fix all the other issues (red push, 16:9 oversqueeze, etc.) and am really happy with the picture quality, especially with anamorphic DVDs in 16:9 enhanced mode. I really want to be able to use the 16:9 enhanced mode with my digital cable movie channels because many times the movies are broadcast in widescreen format or OnDemand gives the option to view them in widescreen. I was wondering if anyone thinks this is possible and how I might go about doing it. I have already tried to do it once but the picture was really depressed vertically in comparison to when I use 16:9 enhanced with DVD's.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to explain myself fully. Also, I just wanted to let everyone know how much I enjoy this site. Thanks in advance.

BgoD,
I may be all wet (but we haven't had significant rain here in some time so I don't think I am). Anamorphic DVDs are meant to be viewed on a 16:9 TV by stretching them to fill the screen. If you don't sttretch them all the screen content is mushed together hotizontally. A true HD content program already fills the 16:9 screen with the film content and possibly top and bottom bars for films with higher w:h ratios. Stretching the already full screen content would just create overscan you have painstakingly adjusted out of the TV. IMHO.

TerryB

I don't see anyone in here using Firewire for recording to D-VHS. Is anyone doing that at all? I tried this unit once and it was a disaster, causing my equipment to lock up when connected via Firewire.

I don't see anyone in here using Firewire for recording to D-VHS. Is anyone doing that at all? I tried this unit once and it was a disaster, causing my equipment to lock up when connected via Firewire.
There's a thread dedicated to PC recording, which is sure to fail, but I have not seen one for 5c compliant devices like D-VHS. That said, The people I know who use the Mits deck have had good success. They are recording timer recordings and live content, but the copy once issue causes problems trying to copy from pre-recorded content from the Hard Drive. Heard good things about the later JVC decks too, using the same method. Most have said they use the D-VHS deck as the control and timer, and then tune the DVR to the channel they want to record.

vegggas

What I would really like to do is create an "anamorphic tape" with no black bars" (like an "enhanced for widescreen" DVD). Anyone have a way to do that?
I was going to ask if there was a way to output a squeezed 4:3 version of the HD program, but someone's already said that's not possible. That would've been nice for dumping HD shows to SD 16:9 DVDs. 4:3 letterboxed DVDs are a drag...
I've figured out a way that the 8300HD can do this. It can output HD shows in anamorphic 16:9 over S-Video. The HD shows will be output as a horizontally squeezed 4:3 SD picture (i.e., people will look thinner) that can be stretched back to 16:9 by the TV.

1) connect the 8300HD s-video out to your TV (or DVD recorder, VCR, TiVo...)
2) go into the setup wizard and press A to put the 8300HD in SD mode.
3) when the 8300HD is playing an HD show, set the picture to Stretch mode by pressing # or going into the settings.

That's it. The trick only works for me with an s-video connection and in SD mode. There's no way to do it using the Copy to VCR function.

Update: Also works using the primary composite out (that's the Y component jack when the 8300HD is in standard-def mode), but quality is obviously not as good as s-video.

I have an 8300HD from Adelphia. I was wondering if it's possible to use the firewire connection to watch live TV on my Windows Media Center 2005 computer? I've searched through the different threads, and it only seems that people talk about recording rather than just watching it. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

No way. Tele-Media is 5C and no PC can deal with that.

By the way, I did some tests on my just installed 8300 DVR tonight and made two good 10 minute recordings using it with a Mitsubishi 2000U. I am recording 90 minutes of boxing right now and hope to God that when I watch it tomorrow it's a-OK.

No way. Tele-Media is 5C and no PC can deal with that.

By the way, I did some tests on my just installed 8300 DVR tonight and made two good 10 minute recordings using it with a Mitsubishi 2000U. I am recording 90 minutes of boxing right now and hope to God that when I watch it tomorrow it's a-OK.
Thank you Matt.

Is it normal to see software Anomalies ?

I have multi on my box...

I have " warning 060223 13.4 SARA main @ wmgr.c 1009 (new window: specified high-res screen for floating window ignoring)

and Mutli "SARA main @ cwatch.cpp 1372 exception -0x2801 in watchtv suspend

Thanks for the other info.... I can't find the problem causing the other low s/n numbers... I grounded the main splitter, it didn't seem to help any....... what else should I look at, could it be the cable box itself, I don't have a amp on it, is it the amp inside it ? I have it pluged into a surge protector, maybe thats it...

thanks Tim

I've been reading the posts above regarding signal level and checked mine:

FDC: Level: 0dbmV S/N: 26 db
RDC: Freq: 22 Power: 48
QAM: Level 0dbmV S/N: 35 db

From what i'm reading it sounds like I should be concerned about the FDC S/N ratio being too low and the RDC Power level being too high; but it sounds like the digital is ok.

I've been seeing some break-up on HD channels so that was one of my concerns.

The way the cable comes into my house it goes through a 2-way splitter (one branch for the cable modem, one for the CATV) - I then feed the CATV signal into a powered 4-way splitter/amplifier from radio shack (yeah, I know, but it is a bi-directional splitter) one of the 4-way outputs goes to the SA-8300HD

I tried going directly from the 2-way splitter to the 8300HD but the FDC signal level dropped from 0dbmV to -25 dbmV. I also tried adjusting the gain on the splitter/amplifier, I can get the signal level to change anywhere from -5dbmV to +8dbmV (on the FDC) but the S/N ratio stayed the same (at 26)

It seems that I can't do anything further in my house to effect the numbers, so I guess a call to TWC is in order - any thoughts?

Thanks - Al

I've been reading the posts above regarding signal level and checked mine:

FDC: Level: 0dbmV S/N: 26 db
RDC: Freq: 22 Power: 48
QAM: Level 0dbmV S/N: 35 db


The QAM will be different on each channel (or each QAM would be more correct).

Your level is fine. OdbmV is right where you want it, though the SA boxes are happy with 0Db to -8dbm.

SA Boxes are usually good with QAM S/N 32-38. You will almost never see a 38db S/N here - and if you ever do - it won't be there for long. 37 is usually the top end.
Under 32 and they have been known to exhibit problems on a 256k QAM.

Firewire connection to my Mitsubishi 2000U seems to be stable and I can record Live HD OK. I recorded HDNet's 90 boxing the other day and it would have been perfect had the HD signal not dropped down to STD mode for about ten seconds, creating a glitch that lasts about 17 seconds. So obviously the SA8300 box, like all SA boxes, is too dumb to send out a consistent 19mb/ps signal via firewire. If the signal drops below 14mb/ps, the Mitsubishi decks automatically switch over to STD mode from HS.

I tried looking through this very valuable thread and didn't find what my non-technical mind needs to fix my problem.

I have both HDMI>>DVI cable and component cable from my 8300 Sara to my DLP. The DLP says both component 3 and DVI are connected. I have been watching through component 3. I had a problem and rebooted the 8300. It now only sends HDMI data. When I switch to component 3 on the TV it says no input. Evidently there is a switch somewhere in the 8300 that chooses HDMI and closes down component. I need component because my receiver is having sound problems right now.

I haven't seen a way to force it to use component. I looked at the diagnostic screen, but I don't think that is the right place. I looked at setting the picture resolutions but I don't know that this is the right place either.

Can someone help? I'm sorry if this has been answered before.

Thanks,

Rich N.

Based on several posts that have appeared recently, it appears that something has been changed to disable Component Out when an HDMI/DVI cable is attached, this is not the first time this has come up. I don't know what cableco you are using, but it may have just been a coincidence that the reboot reset things while they were getting ready to push the change. I don't believe there is any user option that will let you force Component. The only way I can think of is to disconnect the HDMI/DVI cable. I believe a lot of folks connected both to ward off audio problems in the first place.

I'm getting recording stopping early. Many of them.

I now have an external SATA drive, but the problem started earlier.

Any ideas what might be causing it?

Collierville, TN
SA 8300HD running SARA
Time Warner Cable

I am having some HD problems (see post, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=649728&goto=newpost)

and have been skimming through this TERRIFIC thread and was wondering if there is a way to force SARA OS update.

I am on TWC Houston with an 8300HD-DVR (delivered and installed yesterday) and my versions are:

SARA 1.87.16.a104
ROM 1.87.16.104
PowerKEY LIB 3.7.5.2
HAL 1.0.39.1092
PHAL3 3.5.11.1021

Firewire connection to my Mitsubishi 2000U seems to be stable and I can record Live HD OK. I recorded HDNet's 90 boxing the other day and it would have been perfect had the HD signal not dropped down to STD mode for about ten seconds, creating a glitch that lasts about 17 seconds. So obviously the SA8300 box, like all SA boxes, is too dumb to send out a consistent 19mb/ps signal via firewire. If the signal drops below 14mb/ps, the Mitsubishi decks automatically switch over to STD mode from HS.
The STB has nothing to do with the bitrate down the firewire. The firewire puts out a stream on the QAM, but the streams bitrates are VARIBLE from the source. This is true of any multiple program stream delivery methods and CONSTANT bitrates are rare in that they need null bit fillers to make them constant.

vegggas

Based on several posts that have appeared recently, it appears that something has been changed to disable Component Out when an HDMI/DVI cable is attached, this is not the first time this has come up. I don't know what cableco you are using, but it may have just been a coincidence that the reboot reset things while they were getting ready to push the change. I don't believe there is any user option that will let you force Component. The only way I can think of is to disconnect the HDMI/DVI cable. I believe a lot of folks connected both to ward off audio problems in the first place.

DoubleDAZ:

Thank you very much. I pulled out the HDMI>>DVI cable and component started immediately.

Of course, if I want to use my sound system I have to replug it, so I hope in the future there is a way to have both connected and viewable by the same TV.

Rich N.

The STB has nothing to do with the bitrate down the firewire. The firewire puts out a stream on the QAM, but the streams bitrates are VARIBLE from the source. This is true of any multiple program stream delivery methods and CONSTANT bitrates are rare in that they need null bit fillers to make them constant.

vegggas
According to some Motorola executives, their HD boxes can send out a fixed signal at 19mb/ps via adding null packets. This is what I read about a year ago. Obviously it could be BS.

Gatorj,
You have the current general release in Houston. There is no update approved and available in Houston. There is some software in Beta test but it has not been approved for general release.

TerryB

Raidbuck,

Can't you connect a digital audio cable (optical or coax) from the 8300 to your sound system?

According to some Motorola executives, their HD boxes can send out a fixed signal at 19mb/ps via adding null packets. This is what I read about a year ago. Obviously it could be BS.

Wouldn't you have to remux THE ENTIRE TRANSPORT STREAM to accomplish this? I just find it hard to believe that the Motorola boxes would have the ability to remux a transport stream in real time over for the firewire output - especially as no cable companies even wanted to spend extra for a IEEE 1394 output, much less a complicated circuit that could remux it on the fly. That would have to add considerable cost to the box for memory and processing requirements which I doubt most MSOs would even want to pay for.

Raidbuck,

Can't you connect a digital audio cable (optical or coax) from the 8300 to your sound system?

Yes, I've done that. My wife doesn't like it and she watches that TV more than me. I still get the sound out of the sound system from the 8300, but she prefers the Samsung DLP sound. Yes, that is very weird, but what can you do? At least now we have a choice (I have to turn down the TV sound to zero when I want to use the sound system). I might add that my sound system, while does an OK job, cost $69 (5.1 Dolby, right from Wal-Mart) so isn't all that good. Part of her dislike is that she needs a separate remote for the sound system. Nobody has codes for the strange brand it is.

So since I don't notice any picture improvement using DVI I think everything is workable now.

Thanks,

Rich N.

Raid/Double...

I hope I don't confuse matters, but being confused myself :D

but....

I have the 8300 connected via HDMI to DVI. I then have the audio connected via optical to my Home Theater amp/receiver and RCA to my TV.

It works fine. (You can listen through the TV speakers and/or the home theater amp/receiver)

I had a problem with my 8300 that I was wondering if anyone could give me some input on. I am running it via component and toslink to my HK235 receiver. The other night when I played a recorded movie back, the sound that came through was a piercingly high pitch static but in the background you could faintly hear the audio of the recorded program. When I changed the channel it kept hissing. I turned it off, and turned it back on and it was fine. Replayed the program and it started again. So, you are probably saying "probably just a bad recording", well that is what I thought so I taped a few other things and it did the same thing. I tried all the other audio outputs with the same result..

Also, is there a guide somewhere that a dummy can understand what some of the information in the diagnostics screen is for and what is good/bad?

Sounds like something went wrong either with the 8300 or the receiver. I'd try connecting audio to the receiver with a coax and see what happens.

Raid/Double...

I hope I don't confuse matters, but being confused myself :D

but....

I have the 8300 connected via HDMI to DVI. I then have the audio connected via optical to my Home Theater amp/receiver and RCA to my TV.

It works fine. (You can listen through the TV speakers and/or the home theater amp/receiver)

I have the sound connected to my TV out of the Component side of the 8300 but they didn't work with the HDMI to DVI connectors. That's why I disconnected the HDMI cable out of the 8300, as DoubleDAZ noted. If it works for you, that's great. Maybe you have a different release of the SARA software that can have both Component and HDMI working at once. I don't know what my release level is.

Rich N.

Thanks for the help re: the simultaneous HDMI/Component issue. Will verify for sure tonight that it won't work on my 8300 (TWC).

Assuming it won't, is it possible to somply split each RCA out from the Component Output to effectively 'split' the signal to two different TV's? Is anyone aware of an inexpensive, but effective, 1x2 Component Splitter?

TIA

Ufortunately you need to use an amplified splitter. The following 8141C Cable Electronics amp is available several places for about $120.

http://www.smarthome.com/8141.html

I don't see anyone in here using Firewire for recording to D-VHS. Is anyone doing that at all? I tried this unit once and it was a disaster, causing my equipment to lock up when connected via Firewire.

Matt,
I haven't tried all the channels, but it's like Veggas says.
Pretty good when copying live, but trying to archive from harddrive is just about unwatchable.
This is even from the copy freely regular broadcast channels.
I'm using a Mits 2000u and a JVC 30k D-VHS.

Could someone give me an explanation of my settings please? I have:
FDC 73.75mhz -16dBmv :mad: and 28 SNR
RDC 25 mhz at 52 dBmv
Sara ver 1.87.23.1

My FDC Level is actually red. -16 with a -17 on a split drop) seems awful low to me. Do I need an amp on the line? And suggestions?

Does the resolution change at all? It says Vertical is 720 and 480 for Horiz.. Isd this the maximum?

Could someone give me an explanation of my settings please? I have:
FDC 73.75mhz -16dBmv :mad: and 28 SNR
RDC 25 mhz at 52 dBmv
Sara ver 1.87.23.1

My FDC Level is actually red. -16 with a -17 on a split drop) seems awful low to me. Do I need an amp on the line? And suggestions?

Gee, just look back one page at post #2258. The answer is to call your cable company and have them bring your signal levels "up to snuff".

Does the resolution change at all? It says Vertical is 720 and 480 for Horiz.. Isd this the maximum?

Don't understand what you are looking at when you say: Vertical is 720 and 480 for Horiz Those are scan rates - also can do 1080.

I imagine you are referring to the -16 dBmv, correct? What is an acceptable level for this, somewhere near zero? That is the signal strength, correct?

Yes, it is. Are you having any problems with video breakup or audio dropouts? Do you have any splitters between the cable out of the wall and the 8300? Do you have the cable itself running through a surge protector/line conditioner?

Raid/Double...

I hope I don't confuse matters, but being confused myself :D

but....

I have the 8300 connected via HDMI to DVI. I then have the audio connected via optical to my Home Theater amp/receiver and RCA to my TV.

It works fine. (You can listen through the TV speakers and/or the home theater amp/receiver)Part of the problem was that he had BOTH Component and HDMI/DVI connected (though I'm not sure why). Anyway, disconnecting HDMI solved the problem, but disconnecting Component instead might have also solved the problem.

The bottomline is that what he had was working for him until recently. That means something changed, either a new version of the software was released or an option was changed by the cableco.

No, the only noticeable problem I am having is one my main NBC channel I have small noise lines, which are very irratating. I was wondering if boosting the signal would help this. What I did notice is that from the box outside I am seeing -16, when I split it I only get a 1db loss at the end of the split, so between the street and my home I am seeing a -16db loss. I would think that this loss would have a more signifigant effect on my picture, but until I see it at near 0db I won't know. Any suggestion on an amplifier?

You should not see that kind of loss from the street to the house. If that's really the case, then I agree with Dave Hancock that a call to the cableco is in order. You need to make sure the signal from the street to the house is up to par before you consider amps, etc. You really should not need any amp in a typical home setup.

Is there any way to adjust horizontal/vertical position or size with this STB?

Newbie trying to set to pass through. Press info & guide and nothing happens. Any ideas.
Also, even when off, box makes hard drive sounds all the time, is this normal??
thanks

Been bouncing around the threads looking for a solution to this problem. I have a SA8300 HD DVR connected to my TV using component cables. I programmed the CableVision IO remote to control volume, TV on/off, etc. and everything worked fine. In an effort to head off the impending birds nest behind the stand, I switched to HDMI from TV to STB. After doing so, I can no longer control the volume using the CableVision remote. Anyone have any ideas or seen this before?

cicc85, You used to control the analog volume through the STB's outputs. With HDMI, you now have Digital audio, which has to be controlled by the recieving device - The TV.

Joestream, read the first posts of this thread all your questions are answered there...

Mpov, No. Most Displays have different centered positions on each input. A professional calibration of the display will help.

esanger,
I'm suprised your STB even works!
How did you figure your outside signal was at -16dB? Did you bring your STB (and portable TV) outside and connect it there, or just remove the splitter? If the level didn't change much by removing the splitter, it sounds like the cable is bad in your home. Also, you never mentioned signal levels of the actual channels that you are watching - Tune your NBC channel, and look at the QAM tuner level. If the QAM is a lot higher, then your lower frequencies are being impeded, typically due to wiring issues.
As for resolution, you were looking at the ANALOG encoders that take the analog SD signal and encode it to digital for storage.

locomo, Matt_stevens,
D-VHS firewire recordiing has not been a problem in my area, or to those that I know in other areas. Recording is supposed to be via live a scheduled recording (it is still a VCR), but you are not able to make a copy of a copy off the DVR.

vegggas

cicc85, You used to control the analog volume through the STB's outputs. With HDMI, you now have Digital audio, which has to be controlled by the recieving device - The TV.
vegggas

Veggas, thanks for the reply. So now I'm back to two remotes? That stinks!

I'm also waiting on a new digital receiver. If I continue to use the HDMI from STB to TV but connect optical out to the receiver, will I then be able to use the receiver to control the volume? The receiver doesn't have an HDMI port, but I'm looking into a universal remote that will control everything.

How do I check the QAM level on NBC? Is there a menu I can get to while I am watching tv to look at channel specifics?

esanger,

Have you ever tried looking at the first post in this thread? All you could possibally want to know is posted either in the very first posting, or one of the links there. You keep asking basic questions that have been there in that first post all along!

Sure did. Guess I just misunderstood the fact that you can get into diagnostics mode while watching television. My fault for being new to this.

locomo, Matt_stevens,
D-VHS firewire recordiing has not been a problem in my area, or to those that I know in other areas. Recording is supposed to be via live a scheduled recording (it is still a VCR), but you are not able to make a copy of a copy off the DVR.

vegggas

Vegggas,
Your saying you shouldn't be able to archive from the hard drive, even from network television?
Well that sux. I wonder what the FCC regulations say about that.
My problem is I'm a Steeler fan (that's a bigger problem) whose JVC VCR decided to stop recording 5 minutes into the SuperBowl when I wasn't home.
I just want to make a copy for posterity's sake (if not mine) since it's still on the 8300.

Sure did. Guess I just misunderstood the fact that you can get into diagnostics mode while watching television. My fault for being new to this.Not at all. Many folks new to AVS, and this thread in particular, don't even check the first post or know it exists as a holding place for whatever tips we feel warrant inclusion, they just jump in at the end and post their questions. Oftentimes we just refer them to the fisrt post for the answer.

In this case, you obviously read at least part of the first post, but your latest comment confused me too. In order to get the initial signal level data from the diagnostics screen you posted, you must have had the TV on, so it is a bit confusing when you say you didn't know you could get into the diagnostic mode while watchng TV. There are also references in the first post about making the display "disappear" so you can still view the underlying program while checking diagnstics data. This all makes it rather obvious to us that the TV must be on and tuned to something. :)

Vegggas,
Your saying you shouldn't be able to archive from the hard drive, even from network television?
Well that sux. I wonder what the FCC regulations say about that.
My problem is I'm a Steeler fan (that's a bigger problem) whose JVC VCR decided to stop recording 5 minutes into the SuperBowl when I wasn't home.
I just want to make a copy for posterity's sake (if not mine) since it's still on the 8300.You can still record it, just not via firewire or in HD.

cicc85, can't you program the Cablevision remote to control the TV too? Then all you have to do is put it in TV mode to control the volume.

Maybe this is posted somewhere in here...but I couldn't find it. It if is I apologize for asking an answered question.


Is it possible to COPY to DVD? Currently I have no VCR attached to the TV with the DVR. I NEVER use a VCR anymore.

The only one in the house is used by my daughter. I would hate to have to but another VCR or drag her's downstairs every time I want to archive to VCR. I'd rather go buy a DVD Recorder.

If you CAN copy to DVD, how well does it work? Can you put multiple programs on 1 DVD?

Alternately I do have a couple of PC which are probably no more than 100 feet (cabling distance) away from the HD DVR set top box. Could one of my PCs be used for archiving? Recording?

Any tips, tricks, suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

cicc85, can't you program the Cablevision remote to control the TV too? Then all you have to do is put it in TV mode to control the volume.

DoubleDAZ, I programmed the CableVision remote with the codes for the TV. However, once I went to HDMI between STB and TV, I'm unable to control the volume. I can turn the TV on/off with the CableVision remote though. Vegggas mentioned in another post that since the volume is now digital to the TV, it can't be controlled from the STB.

I'm not sure what you mean by "put it in TV mode".

DoubleDAZ, I will elaborate. When I was going into the diagnostics menu, i was doing it basically the same way as when you want to go into the setup menu. I was doing it with teh STB off and the TV on. I was under the impression that this was how it had to be done. Last night, I tried turned the STB on and went to NBC and went into diagnostics mode actually found that the QAM level was showing up as N/A..Just to preface all this though, I hooked the box and TV up basically straight into the box outside my home and am still getting a -16dB drop. This kind of tells me that it is not the wiring in my home that is the issue. What do you think the cable co (Adelphia) will do about this??

I also noticed a few more things that made me query what was going on. Componenet copy protection was enabled but HDMI is not... What is up with that.??

DoubleDAZ, I programmed the CableVision remote with the codes for the TV. However, once I went to HDMI between STB and TV, I'm unable to control the volume. I can turn the TV on/off with the CableVision remote though. Vegggas mentioned in another post that since the volume is now digital to the TV, it can't be controlled from the STB.

My Cablevision remote controls the volume on my Sony TV conected to my SA8300HD via HDMI. Either the remote has the wrong code or there is a setting issue preventing it from working properly. You can also program it to control the volume from the box instead of the TV.
http://iotv.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/iotv.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1417&p_created=1113579646&p_sid=A94qLn1i&p_lva=327&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9MzUmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9 zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1yZW1vdGVz&p_li=&p_topview=1

If you CAN copy to DVD, how well does it work? Can you put multiple programs on 1 DVD?

Alternately I do have a couple of PC which are probably no more than 100 feet (cabling distance) away from the HD DVR set top box. Could one of my PCs be used for archiving? Recording?Yes, you can copy to DVD. Just hook any of the analog outputs to the DVD burner. "Copy To VCR" can be used to copy to DVD by using the "Out To VCR" outputs. It works well enough ... though some people have reported various problems. The biggest one I think is with certain versions of SARA firmware and the 8300HD the "Out To VCR" / "Copy To VCR" results in very poor picture quality. However, you can use any of the other analog outputs if this is the case.

For a PC ... if you have a video card that takes analog inputs you can use that for archiving to the PC. Of course, re-encoding the analog output isn't the 'ideal' solution. Unfortunately, the only all digital solution is to use Firewire, which people are trying and having various degrees of success / failure ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271&highlight=Firewire
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695&highlight=Firewire

Mpov, No. Most Displays have different centered positions on each input. A professional calibration of the display will help.




Well, I hooked up the STB via component and the sizing issue went away, I didn't even need to adjust anything! However, I noticed two things: (i) the component output won't work if HDMI is also used. I had to disconnect the the HDMI cable in order to use component out. (ii) The audio volume out of the component outputs is significantly lower than the HDMI volume. In fact, I had to turn up my stereo up pretty high to get an acceptable volume level. In addition, I am now hearing a 60hz hum over my speakers.

Am I doing something wrong here? Should I be noticing this volume difference?

My Cablevision remote controls the volume on my Sony TV conected to my SA8300HD via HDMI. Either the remote has the wrong code or there is a setting issue preventing it from working properly. You can also program it to control the volume from the box instead of the TV.
http://iotv.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/iotv.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1417&p_created=1113579646&p_sid=A94qLn1i&p_lva=327&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9MzUmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9 zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1yZW1vdGVz&p_li=&p_topview=1

I'll have to give it another try. That link you provided is exactly the process I tried. I've pretty much run through all the available codes for my Toshiba, but none seem to address the volume control.

Yes, you can copy to DVD. Just hook any of the analog outputs to the DVD burner. "Copy To VCR" can be used to copy to DVD by using the "Out To VCR" outputs. It works well enough ... though some people have reported various problems.


That sounds good, but what do you do when you want to copy to DVD an SD program off an HD channel? That would be a 4:3 image inside a 1080i 16:9 frame. I would like to zoom in on the image so that I don't record a 4:3 image with bars on every side. I usually record SD network shows off their hd feeds because quality is usually better.

The 8300 would be connected with one of the s-video outputs out to the dvd recorder. I know the zoom works beautifully for the component out, but what about s-video?

That sounds good, but what do you do when you want to copy to DVD an SD program off an HD channel? That would be a 4:3 image inside a 1080i 16:9 frame. I would like to zoom in on the image so that I don't record a 4:3 image with bars on every side. I usually record SD network shows off their hd feeds because quality is usually better.

The 8300 would be connected with one of the s-video outputs out to the dvd recorder. I know the zoom works beautifully for the component out, but what about s-video?Try it and see ...

"Copy To VCR" will (currently) always give you HD content letterboxes into a 4:3 frame.

But simply using the standard outputs (Svideo or composite) should give you the ability to zoom as desired. It may be firmware/hardware dependant though so ... try it and see.

See this post for someone who is successfully using zoom on SVideo output for HD content to create anamorphic DVDs:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7191379&&#post7191379

I apologize in advance if either of these questions have asked before. I tried searching and didn't find anything. Has anyone noticed either of these behaviors:

1. When the recorder changes channels to record something new, it boots you out of whatever you're watching (live TV, previously recorded program, etc.) and takes you to whatever channel it's recording. Is it supposed to do that? It's very annoying.

2. Recorder periodically says that it's completely full (no more disc space), even though there's plenty of space on the drive. When you go to delete a show to make more room, there's only one show in the list. You can delete that show, but the drive space still shows as 100% full. Unplugging the unit and plugging back in seems to bring everything back to normal.

I apologize in advance if either of these questions have asked before. I tried searching and didn't find anything. Has anyone noticed either of these behaviors:

1. (...)

2. (...)1. Yes it's annoying and yes lots of people have noticed. Reports are that it's fixed in 1.88.x.x firmware (which I don't have so I can't verify). My workaround is when I tune to a recording in progress I 1) stop and save 2) start a new recording 3) pause the new recording 4) watch the first part and 5) pick up the second part at the pause point. This works ... certainly not ideal. Note: a 'manually' started recording (hit record while tuned to a channel) does not exhibit this behavior (the 'drop to live' bug).

2. Again, something that's been noticed. Rebooting (unplug / replug) tends to cure this and several other glitches that pop up from time to time.

I apologize in advance if either of these questions have asked before. I tried searching and didn't find anything. Has anyone noticed either of these behaviors:

1. When the recorder changes channels to record something new, it boots you out of whatever you're watching (live TV, previously recorded program, etc.) and takes you to whatever channel it's recording. Is it supposed to do that? It's very annoying.

2. Recorder periodically says that it's completely full (no more disc space), even though there's plenty of space on the drive. When you go to delete a show to make more room, there's only one show in the list. You can delete that show, but the drive space still shows as 100% full. Unplugging the unit and plugging back in seems to bring everything back to normal.

You have described some of the quirks I have come across with my 8300HD. In order to fix both problems you have to power down the unit, then power it up again. The first problem happened to me somewhat frequently (at least once a week), and the 2nd about once every 3 months (but still annoying). Re-powering the unit was the only way I found to fix the problem. Usually, once I power the unit back up again, it "finds" shows that it thinks haven't been deleted, but when I select them, there's nothing there. Good fun :(

Wouldn't it be nice for it to have a "Skip to the middle" feature or some track stops?

2. Recorder periodically says that it's completely full (no more disc space), even though there's plenty of space on the drive. When you go to delete a show to make more room, there's only one show in the list. You can delete that show, but the drive space still shows as 100% full. Unplugging the unit and plugging back in seems to bring everything back to normal.

Your problem # 2 was occurring on my 8300 a few times a week and lasted for a couple months. It started shortly after installing an external hard drive. I was rebooting the unit 2 or 3 times a week in order to have recording space. I’m not 100% convinced it had anything to do with the external hard drive because the problem seems to have corrected itself. I haven’t had the problem in several weeks and I still have the external drive connected.

The best way to reboot is to unplug, then press and hold the power button while plugging back in (hard reboot). I know some folks don't think this makes any difference between just unplugging and plugging (reboot), but that may just be a matter of how long before the unit is turned back on. Maybe vegggas can explain why there doesn't seem to be much difference in the 2 methods. I've done it both ways and don't "see" a difference myself, but then I turn it back on as soon as I can and perhaps don't let it do it's thing fully. :)

1. When the recorder changes channels to record something new, it boots you out of whatever you're watching (live TV, previously recorded program, etc.) and takes you to whatever channel it's recording. Is it supposed to do that? It's very annoying.Never had that happen except:

If you are watching live TV and you have scheduled 2 recordings for the same time, you will be taken to one of those channels when recording starts. After all, there are only 2 tuners available.

I routinely watch previously recorded programs while recording 2 other programs. If you are being taken to one of the channels while watching a recording, perhaps the hard reboot alluded to in other responses will resolve the issue, this should not happen.

Lately I've been seeing the same thing that egmutza reports (and I've been around for a while). It didn't come with any SARA change (we've been on 1.87.16.a109 for some time now). I guess that it does not bug me too much as I can come right back to where I was. I'm running a 250GB external drive (had that for almost a year too) and have been running 40-60% full when this has been happening. Hard Reboots haven't made any difference either.

Joestream, read the first posts of this thread all your questions are answered there...

My problem is that when I do press info & guide to get into the menu, nothing happens...

The cable box should be off before pressing guide and info to start the HD wizard.

The cable box should be off before pressing guide and info to start the HD wizard.

Yes, it is off, I even held the buttons for a while, nothing happens.
However, even when off, the hard drive constantly makes the 'clicking' noise. Could it be a bad box?

I'd say to try a hard reboot, and if it doesn't work after that, exchange the box.

Hopefully this is obvious, but you are walking up to the box, using the STB front panel buttons and not using the remote - right?

vegggas

Hopefully this is obvious, but you are walking up to the box, using the STB front panel buttons and not using the remote - right?

vegggas

Yes, I am doing that on the box. Its bothering because I would rather have my TV deal with the different formats as it does a better job.

Does anyone know if you can run HDMI between the STB and TV while running the optical from the STB to a digitial reciever? I'd like to keep my existing HDMI connection but want to run the audio through the receiver. The digital receiver I'm interested in doesn't have HDMI.

Does anyone know if you can run HDMI between the STB and TV while running the optical from the STB to a digitial reciever? I'd like to keep my existing HDMI connection but want to run the audio through the receiver. The digital receiver I'm interested in doesn't have HDMI.

Should be able to do it. You might have to set the Audio: Digital Out to Dolby Digital on the 2nd Settings (push Settings twice).

Should be able to do it. You might have to set the Audio: Digital Out to Dolby Digital on the 2nd Settings (push Settings twice).


Thanks! When I get the receiver and set it up, I'll let you know if it works.

Does anyone know if you can run HDMI between the STB and TV while running the optical from the STB to a digitial reciever? I'd like to keep my existing HDMI connection but want to run the audio through the receiver. The digital receiver I'm interested in doesn't have HDMI.


I am doing this right now.

I can change it to HDMI or DOlby Digital and the sound still comes out of the optical out to my receiver.

I find that sadly, HDMI is better because the overall volume level from channel to channel is much more static than with Dolby DIgital.

With Dolby enabled some channels I go to are barely audible and I end up cranking up the volume and if I don't forget to turn it down before changing the channel it's loud shocker time.

Double that issue with night time viewing and I stuck with HDMI.

YMMV

Help..I keep asking this question...is it possible to output hdmi and component at the same time??
thanks
thequietman

Help..I keep asking this question...is it possible to output hdmi and component at the same time??Apparently not: (link to post from two days ago) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7223935&highlight=hdmi+component#post7223935)

I am doing this right now.

I can change it to HDMI or DOlby Digital and the sound still comes out of the optical out to my receiver.

I find that sadly, HDMI is better because the overall volume level from channel to channel is much more static than with Dolby DIgital.

With Dolby enabled some channels I go to are barely audible and I end up cranking up the volume and if I don't forget to turn it down before changing the channel it's loud shocker time.

Double that issue with night time viewing and I stuck with HDMI.

YMMV
This may be related to the HDMI using PCM stereo, and Dolby Digital having a lot of dynamic range. If you want to normalize your audio over Dolby Digital, go into your 2nd settings menu and change the Audio: Range to "Normal" instead of Wide.

vegggas

Apparently not: (link to post from two days ago) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7223935&highlight=hdmi+component#post7223935)While it appears that some cableco's or select versions of software are disabling Component Out when an HDMI cable is connected, this may just be another inadvertent error. I don't know that we ever explored what versions of software and which cableco's are involved or if any cableco has been asked what happened.

About noon today, my SA 8300 HD started rebooting over and over. Locks up, display goes to BOOT, then is OK for a few minutes, then starts over.

About 7p it cleared on its own. Any idea what makes it reboot?

SARA 1.87.23.1
FDC 8dbmV
QAM -1 dbmV
RDC 48dbmV

Time Warner Cable Memphis, TN / MidSouth

BTW, I called TWC and they said I needed to swap the box out - but they would not have any HD DVR boxes for four to six weeks!

Jim Burks
Collierville, TN

While it appears that some cableco's or select versions of software are disabling Component Out when an HDMI cable is connected, this may just be another inadvertent error. I don't know that we ever explored what versions of software and which cableco's are involved or if any cableco has been asked what happened.

Dave, I thought that I saw somewhere (one of these AVS Forums) that it is a HDCP requirement that HD analog out be disabled when HDCP is in control. If this is true, those cases where both work are due to old SW that did not have properly implemented HDCP.

jbburks,
An intermittant cable signal will make the box do that, there may have been something going on nearby which screwed you up for a while but is OK now. Actually the signal only has to be lost as far as the box is concerned you may have a signal which was degraded enough to trip the 8300 and nobody else noticed. Don't sweat it unless it happens again.

TerryB

Dave,

That could very well be and is just another reason for me to use Component and not mess with HDMI until and if I have to. :)

One of my points though was that we haven't ID'd software versions yet and I guess we should try to do that. Hopefully those who have tried both and found Component disabled will post their versions numbers so we can get a sense of what's really going on. There hasn't been any new software for a while now that I know of, the 1.88.x.x is a bit old already, so I'd like to know if it is software driven or a cableco option of some sort is all.

Maybe it is another design feature, like putting out the HDCP Failed message over the S-Video. Might not be the way I would have constructed it, but there is a reason for it from some point of view? For example, the STB could not have a way to send the HD stream to the HDMI and SD down-convert to the components, that hardware may be hardwired to the S-Video and Composite ports.

Legally, I think turning component off with HDCP should be an option. I thought back when we discussed the HDCP Failed message (#1512 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6521597&&#post6521597)) that the STB could legally still send 480i/p out of the components for protected material similar to the up-converting DVD players?

All this still assumes that the content is actually HDCP protected, my fear is SA just implemented HDCP for all content regardless. If they did, I hope they sorted folks into two groups: ones who have an HDCP capability - "use it for all", and groups with no demonstrated HDCP - "down convert or block only HDCP coded content".

v/r,
C-F

OK gang. Who here owns both the 8300 and the JVC 5U? I got a brand new 5U (because 40K's cannot be found new anymore) and man, just like the 40K and 30K, it will not work with the 8300 HD box. Mine has SARA software.

Worse yet, my 5U will not even work with my 3250HD box! :mad: :eek:

See this thread I started for full details (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652259)

Anyway, who here has successfully made their JVC D-VHS deck work with their 8300? That means no lockups or crashing on the JVC.

The 8300 works fine with the Mitsubishi 2K and I would just settle for that, but the JVC will lock up if it is Firewired to the Mits while the Mits is Firewired to the 8300, which means I would be constantly unplugging and replugging cables. No thanks. Major pain the the rear. :(

About noon today, my SA 8300 HD started rebooting over and over. Locks up, display goes to BOOT, then is OK for a few minutes, then starts over.

About 7p it cleared on its own. Any idea what makes it reboot?

SARA 1.87.23.1
FDC 8dbmV
QAM -1 dbmV
RDC 48dbmV

Time Warner Cable Memphis, TN / MidSouth

BTW, I called TWC and they said I needed to swap the box out - but they would not have any HD DVR boxes for four to six weeks!

Jim Burks
Collierville, TN


Hey Jim,

Same thing happened to me about a month ago. Box crashed every 2-3 minutes for about an hour and a half. I was recording a couple of HDTV shows at the time, and the reboots caused 40-60 recordings of 2-3 minutes of junk each. Fun times. Had to manually remove the bogus recordings one at a time. Also like your case, the issue resolved itself and hasn't reoccurred since.

[sarcasm] Yet another "feature" of this lovely box. [\sarcasm]

About noon today, my SA 8300 HD started rebooting over and over. Locks up, display goes to BOOT, then is OK for a few minutes, then starts over.

About 7p it cleared on its own. Any idea what makes it reboot?

Jim,
This happened to me sometime last year. I called Adelphia and they had done a software update that was bad, causing all of these boxes to reboot continuously. They had to roll back the software to fix it.

Jim,
This happened to me sometime last year. I called Adelphia and they had done a software update that was bad, causing all of these boxes to reboot continuously. They had to roll back the software to fix it.

And again, I am not defending any cable company - but this is exactly the situation they find themselves in.

If they upgrade with every fix, these things do have bugs.

If they don't upgrade, things don't get fixed.

I have complained to the local MSO louder than most - but I do see the situation they are in.

The 8300 works fine with the Mitsubishi 2K and I would just settle for that,

My local MSO has been working with SA to even get a Mitsubishi 2k to work - which I have loaned them for the last 120 days - and they have been unable to do so. It has been escalated at SA.

If they can compare their settings, perhaps they can determine where the problems are that is causing all this incompatiability.

So which system in CT has 8300s that work with a Mitsubishi 2k?

And again, I am not defending any cable company - but this is exactly the situation they find themselves in.

If they upgrade with every fix, these things do have bugs.

If they don't upgrade, things don't get fixed.

I have complained to the local MSO louder than most - but I do see the situation they are in.Y'know, SciAtl makes money by selling products to cable companies.

When I buy a product from a company, and it doesn't work the way I think it should, I either complain until I get satisfaction, or I stop doing business with that company.

If I were a cableco paying SciAtl for products, and my customers were complaining, and SciAtl wasn't able to support me, I'd be seriously pressuring SciAtl to get satisfaction for my customers...including letting them know that I'm looking to replace them as my STB supplier.

Comcast and TWC aren't exactly small fries. They ought to be able to rain down pain on SciAtl to get satisfaction.

I *don't* understand the situation the cablecos "find themselves in".

jruhnke,
Remember that TWC Houston switched to SA DVRs because they couldn't get Moto DVRs to work in the first place. Maybe it would have been better to stay with the "Devil you know" but they made the leap to SA and now they have to wait on fixes from SA.

TerryB

Remember that TWC Houston switched to SA DVRs because they couldn't get Moto DVRs to work in the first place. Maybe it would have been better to stay with the "Devil you know" but they made the leap to SA and now they have to wait on fixes from SA.Again, if SciAtl was the behemoth, and TWC was the little guy, I'd put in with you. But TWC-Houston is not the only TWC division using SA STBs and SARA software. Without TWC and Comcast, where is SciAtl generating significant DVR revenue?

With that kind of financial leverage, why doesn't TWC have the contractual equivalent of a couple of thugs smacking lead pipes into their hands standing next to SA's development team to motivate them to write code that works?

TWC's not a 90-lb weakling. Why, to all appearances from this customer's perspective, do they continue to allow SA to kick sand in their face?

*That's* what I don't get.

Well, that, plus I don't get what's so hard about SA writing code that works in the first place. It's been over a year since the last stable update in Houston. Hire a few competent coders, for crying out loud!

If cable operations and equipment weren't so fragmented, we wouldn't be in this situation with SA, Moto, or anyone else. As soon as they fix something at one cableco, the fix breaks something at another cableco. Cablevision has had a fairly stable version for a while now that inlcudes the Start From Beginning option, FF4, etc., but efforts to extend this version to other cablco's has proved difficult.

Admittedly, I have no idea why the software is so difficult to get to work across platforms, but way back in the 70's I ran up against this same problem with Air Force mainframes that were all the same. Stuff that ran fine at one location failed at another. Oftentimes we had to have tape images of the entire database shipped to us for troubleshooting. SA is in a similar position where they obviously do not have the capability to reproduce each cableco's equipment and setup. Unfortunately, even beta testing by each cableco often fails to identify problems until it's too late and the software is released. One we subs get ahold of it, we thrash it to death, often trying things that weren't part of the design.

Also, if you read all the 8300 threads here, you'll see that almost every problem is limited in scope. Not everyone, even with the same equipment, suffers a given problem making it that much more difficult to troubleshoot.

Y'know, SciAtl makes money by selling products to cable companies.

When I buy a product from a company, and it doesn't work the way I think it should, I either complain until I get satisfaction, or I stop doing business with that company.

If I were a cableco paying SciAtl for products, and my customers were complaining, and SciAtl wasn't able to support me, I'd be seriously pressuring SciAtl to get satisfaction for my customers...including letting them know that I'm looking to replace them as my STB supplier.

Comcast and TWC aren't exactly small fries. They ought to be able to rain down pain on SciAtl to get satisfaction.

I *don't* understand the situation the cablecos "find themselves in".


Slightly off topic apologies...

Maybe the "new, bigger, and better" AT&T will be able to help them better understand this competitive process. Yes, yes, I know they already have satellite competition and some competition from telephone companies for internet service, but as long as they have local monopolies re:cable service, I really don't think they feel the pressure at lower levels. They certainly feel it at the higher levels, but then it is mostly about trying to stop any bleeding. Right now, to switch to satellite a customer has to "purchase" and install special equipment and suffer some significant limitations (e.g., sometimes loss of local channels, etc.).

I think the prospect of a competitor being able to offer everything the cable co.'s offer, plus cell service (and thus, cell tv, etc.), they will really start feeling the pinch. It is under this kind of immediate competitive threat that firms realize the importance of reinvesting to create higher levels of customer satisfaction. To paraphrase a earlier post, why would you invest millions and millions of dollars when things are going, let's say "pretty good?"

Caveat: I have no idea how long it will take AT&T to get their act together and whether they will be embracing new technologies or build based on current technologies (death, for sure).

So which system in CT has 8300s that work with a Mitsubishi 2k? Tele-Media from Seymour. I returned the 8300 yesterday since it is not worth my time. I am unable to hook up my JVC to the Mits deck unless I disconnect the 8300 and that is a royal pain in the @ss. So bad to the 3250 I go, hoping they get the 4200 at some point.

If cable operations and equipment weren't so fragmented, we wouldn't be in this situation with SA, Moto, or anyone else. As soon as they fix something at one cableco, the fix breaks something at another cableco. Cablevision has had a fairly stable version for a while now that inlcudes the Start From Beginning option, FF4, etc., but efforts to extend this version to other cablco's has proved difficult.Perhaps I'm being unfair in saying "It's not that hard." It boggles my mind that changes that should be purely isolated from the network, like how fast you're fast-forwarding or rewinding, or where you begin playback of a recording in progress, should behave differently depending on whose cable you screw into the RF port on the back. Perhaps the poor SA coders are equally boggled by this situation.

So maybe there really is some bizarre coupling between those functions and the cable infrastructure. But if there is, then again I am forced to ask, "Why??"

Sloppy STB software architecture is the only reason I can think of. And then my sympathy for the poor, boggled software guys drains right away again.

It boggles my mind that changes that should be purely isolated from the network, like how fast you're fast-forwarding or rewinding, or where you begin playback of a recording in progress, should behave differently depending on whose cable you screw into the RF port on the back. Perhaps the poor SA coders are equally boggled by this situation.

So maybe there really is some bizarre coupling between those functions and the cable infrastructure. But if there is, then again I am forced to ask, "Why??"

Sloppy STB software architecture is the only reason I can think of. And then my sympathy for the poor, boggled software guys drains right away again.1) While FF / RW improvements / changes may be included in a software release ... there are usually other changes as well. Problems may be caused by the FF / RW changes ... they may be caused by something else.

SA could certainly take some features off the trunk and move them to a previously known good branch ... always an option in software development. But also always and extra cost and something you tend to avoid.

2) For digital channels it's rather easy to see where different cable companies may cause FF / RW issues. Different cable companies use different muxing / encoding equipment. Some follow CableLabs specs. Most do not (in certain, specific instances ... bugs of their own).

Looking at the recording schedule tonight, I see a three-way conflict coming up.

But one is apparently a "placeholder". It's a First Run recording of a show that isn't on tonight, isn't ever on Tuesdays, and isn't on at all in the coming week. I'm a little surprised -- my other placeholders have always been "in the past".

Is this going to be a problem?

BTW, what happens when there's a real three-way conflict due to shift schedules?

Thanks,
LB

If there is a real 3-way conflict, nothing gets recorded. The 8300 has no priority scheme like Tivo does.

Your placeholder should not cause a problem, it never has for me. I routinely add a 3rd program to my schedule whenever "new" episodes are not on.

Perhaps I'm being unfair in saying "It's not that hard." I don't think it's a matter of being unfair. I think it's a matter of not knowing what is actually causing the failures. If they were to simply add FF4 and Start From Beginning options to a known, relatively stable version, you would be entirely correct to chastize them. However, I think we all know that much more is being done behind what we see. Unfortunately, I can't imagine what could have been done to 1.87.x.x for Cablevision to make 1.88.x.x so unstable on any system other than Cablevision.

I could offer any number of examples from my Air Force days to illustrate this problem, but suffice it to say that when you start coding multiple branches in a program to cope with the unique aspects of the various cableco's being supported, you introduce a lot of opportunities to mess things up with what appear to be very minor changes.

They are supposedly working on a complete rewrite (OS 1.5) to fold all these unique branches into a more cohesive program and cableco's have invested a lot of money in new equipment. I've raised the issue of OCAP before as a means to get rid of the reliance on SA and SARA/Passport, but with the ATT move, I think cable, other than as a distribution method, may be on it's way out. There is no doubt that the internet provides a lot of opportunities to change the way cable, or any, content is delivered. Rather than ala carte pricing for cable, I can see a complete Content-On-Demand scenario via the internet to the DVR for viewing at a later time/date.

1) While FF / RW improvements / changes may be included in a software release ... there are usually other changes as well. Problems may be caused by the FF / RW changes ... they may be caused by something else.Fine. Instead of letting the stuff that works sit on the shelf for a year while they scratch their heads about the hard stuff, put a shiny bow on the stuff that works and throw the paying customers a bone!

2) For digital channels it's rather easy to see where different cable companies may cause FF / RW issues. Different cable companies use different muxing / encoding equipment. Some follow CableLabs specs. Most do not (in certain, specific instances ... bugs of their own).Oh, come on. I've got over a dozen video codecs installed on my computer. I watch QuickTime files; MPEG2 and MPEG4 files of all shapes, sizes, resolutions, and bitrates; DivX and XviD files; Realmedia; Motion-JPEG; and a double-handful of other formats that I don't know off the top of my head. Except for streaming formats, I can grab the slider bar on my media player of choice and jump all the heck around in my video files.

But SA can't build a dedicated box with the software to handle a finite number of known (even if "non-standard") formats that can be easily modified to add another step of FF/RW speed? Sorry, I again toss that into the category of "lousy programming". Still no sympathy here.

<snip>
However, I think we all know that much more is being done behind what we see.
<snip>
They are supposedly working on a complete rewrite (OS 1.5) to fold all these unique branches into a more cohesive program and cableco's have invested a lot of money in new equipment.Actually, I don't know that "much more is being done", nor was I aware of a complete OS re-write. In fact, a lot of my aggravation would be assuaged if there was some mechanism by which my cableco / SA could communicate to me at some reasonable level of detail what they *are* working on. If it weren't for places like this forum, I'd know absolutely nothing. As it is, I have to pick up bits of information from what's reported across the country and in my neighborhood about various software versions, feature improvements, bugs experienced, etc., and try to piece together from those snippets what TWC-Houston and SA are actually doing to improve my DVR experience, and when I might reasonably expect to see results.

All I *know*, for sure, is that it's been over a year since my current software version was released. Regardless of whether TWC, SA, or anyone else thinks I'm being unreasonable, this particular customer would like to see more frequent feature improvements than that!

Whoa there! Just how much memory and CPU power do you think the 8300 has? SA, Moto, etc., would be better off using their boxes with a dedicated, standalone, IPG data stream ala Tivo and I don't think they'd have any of these problems. If it were so easy, Tivo would have entered the cable market a long time ago. As it is, they are entering now as we get closer to manufacturer independence and then with a single cabelco, but I beleive they will still use their IPG database and not the cableco's.

Just because you can do all that with a 1Ghz CPU, 256M RAM, 40G HDD, etc., or better, doesn't mean you can easliy pare any of that down to whatever CPU/RAM the 8300 has. I guess you've never had to reboot your PC, defrag the HDD, and haven't upgraded any software only to find new bugs. :)

Whoa there! Just how much memory and CPU power do you think the 8300 has?Your point is well-taken...to a point. I do appreciate that the 8300HD is likely not as powerful as my primary Athlon64 PC, and that some concessions must be granted.

But my point was not really that I want my 8300 to be as capable as my PC. My point was simply that it is clearly possible to write modular software with codecs to accommodate a variety of video encoding schemes, all playable through a common interface. Presumably, if an organization with expertise in cable STBs were to design a DVR from the ground-up and write the software that runs it, it's reasonable to expect them to also handle multiple codecs behind a single user interface. Thus, the argument that "it has to handle a bunch of different video delivery formats, and that's hard," is hard to swallow.

Just because you can do all that with a 1Ghz CPU, 256M RAM, 40G HDD, etc., or better, doesn't mean you can easliy pare any of that down to whatever CPU/RAM the 8300 has. I guess you've never had to reboot your PC, defrag the HDD, and haven't upgraded any software only to find new bugs. :)Again, your point is well-taken...to a point. Windows does so much more than that little 8300HD that this time, your analogy breaks down. If I built a PC from scratch, and did nothing but load a clean version of Windows, including Media Player, and the minimum set of codecs required to view my media files, then used one or two hard drives to hold my media files, I would *not* expect to have to reboot frequently or have other issues.

If everyone could build their own 8300HD box from a wide variety of components available at the local computer store, I'd have more sympathy for the SARA developers! :)

All I *know*, for sure, is that it's been over a year since my current software version was released. Regardless of whether TWC, SA, or anyone else thinks I'm being unreasonable, this particular customer would like to see more frequent feature improvements than that!And just how much are you willing to pay for those upgrades? The real problem is the cableco mentality. In their minds, they make no more money with an upgrade, so what do they care?

We grudgingly pay $89.95 for a new version of Windows every few years, with loads of new bugs, yet we expect SA and cableco's to provide bug-free software with all the features we can dream up with no increase in costs on our part. We choose to use cable and their relatively cheap equipment instead of satellite and Tivo because of cost, yet we demand Tivo performance and features. We beat up on SA even though Motorola and others can't do any better and some do worse, and even satco's have their share of DVR problems, yes even including Tivo.

I'd probably be thinking many of the same things had it not been for my Air Force experience with so-called standard software that was suppose to work everywhere. It looks very simple on the surface, but it is anything but when you are the one responsible for writing the code.

Also, I have several friends with 8300's who do not participate in any online HD forums and they are quite satisfied with their DVRs. We here represent a very small portion of cable subs who have DVRs. Most users don't know or care about FF4. They may ask me about joining a recording in progress. I tell them how it's done and that's how they do it. They don't get all bent out of shape because there is no Start From Beginning option. Most of us came from the wonderful world of VCRs and no one can tell me the 8300, flaws and all, is not better than a VCR. Heck, even my VCR missed a recording every now and then. :)

Edit: To respond to the comments you posted while I was composing this, I think you short-change just how much difference there is between cableco's and what SA programmers have to deal with. Again, it sounds like it should be as simple as you indicate, but it clearly isn't. Don't you think SA (or someone) would design things the way you said if they could? Do you think they jumble up the code just for job security? Now that I think about it, maybe you do. :)

And just how much are you willing to pay for those upgrades? The real problem is the cableco mentality. In their minds, they make no more money with an upgrade, so what do they care?I have made this point myself in other, similar threads. Clearly the motivation for them is limited--otherwise, we'd see continual and timely updates and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Yet it is also clear that someone, somewhere, is doing something, so some effort is being made (and I won't pretend to understand what motivates them even to do that much!). My frustration then, is not that no one is doing anything, but that what is being done appears so inefficient in terms of effort spent vs. results I can see.

I'd probably be thinking many of the same things had it not been for my Air Force experience with so-called standard software that was suppose to work everywhere. It looks very simple on the surface, but it is anything but when you are the one responsible for writing the code.Which is exactly why I said, "Maybe I'm being unfair..." way back when. I still admit that is very likely the case. I simply am not privy to and cannot adequately imagine the legitimate reasons for why the upgrades are difficult. Unfortunately, I have not yet heard anything concrete that makes it easier for me to understand, just variations on, "It's harder than you think."

Also, I have several friends with 8300's who do not participate in any online HD forums and they are quite satisfied with their DVRs. ... <snip>All good reasons for why cablecos and SA should sit on their hands and not do anything. But again, the question is not, "Why aren't they doing anything?" The question is, "Why, knowing that something is being done, am I not seeing timely results?"

Edit: To respond to the comments you posted while I was composing this, I think you short-change just how much difference there is between cableco's and what SA programmers have to deal with. Again, it sounds like it should be as simple as you indicate, but it clearly isn't. Don't you think SA (or someone) would design things the way you said if they could?Again, I said long ago that maybe I am being unfair. I would still like to better understand specifically why the challenges for them are so great. I don't guess that's going to happen.

Do you think they jumble up the code just for job security? Now that I think about it, maybe you do. :)No, that would imply cleverness, and in my experience, incompetence is always much more likely than clever and deliberate sabotage when searching for the cause of a fouled-up situation! (I've fouled up plenty of situations myself to know that much!) :)

No, that would imply cleverness, and in my experience, incompetence is always much more likely than clever and deliberate sabotage when searching for the cause of a fouled-up situation! (I've fouled up plenty of situations myself to know that much!)
Any reasonable software development organization starts with some sort of software features document, moves to more specific requirements, then sizes the project in order to determine a budget and schedule. Once that is done (and funding procured) development starts. Just because the funding does not support the speed of development that you desire does not make the software engineers at SA incompetent.

Perhaps if cable had a "premium DVR" service that supported a more accelerated development budget (and costs their customers $25/month) your rants could be satisfied. But so far the cablecos have only been able to make economic sense of a $10/month service.
:rolleyes:

Any reasonable software development organization starts with some sort of software features document, moves to more specific requirements, then sizes the project in order to determine a budget and schedule. Once that is done (and funding procured) development starts. Just because the funding does not support the speed of development that you desire does not make the software engineers at SA incompetent.

Perhaps if cable had a "premium DVR" service that supported a more accelerated development budget (and costs their customers $25/month) your rants could be satisfied. But so far the cablecos have only been able to make economic sense of a $10/month service.
:rolleyes: Ahhh...The marketing concept at work. Yeah. That's the ticket--and I am serious.

They just don't think that way. They think that every distribution is a skewed normal distribution, toward the low price end. And, I have to admit, with pretty good reason. Nonetheless, if they did their homework, they would find a small segment of consumers...

Y'know, SciAtl makes money by selling products to cable companies.

When I buy a product from a company, and it doesn't work the way I think it should, I either complain until I get satisfaction, or I stop doing business with that company.

If I were a cableco paying SciAtl for products, and my customers were complaining, and SciAtl wasn't able to support me, I'd be seriously pressuring SciAtl to get satisfaction for my customers...including letting them know that I'm looking to replace them as my STB supplier.

Comcast and TWC aren't exactly small fries. They ought to be able to rain down pain on SciAtl to get satisfaction.

I *don't* understand the situation the cablecos "find themselves in".

If you don't understand it, you aren't trying very hard.

As noted, Motorola has problems.....SA has problems.....

Who ya gonna call?

Ghostbusters?

You are out of choices.

And let's see, Houston IS THE ONLY CABLE SYSTEM IN AMERICA where they have Motorola and SA Encryption on the same system. That amounts to doubling all the head end equipment and expenses - with even more problems of inter-operability.

It wasnt done because of problems with the Motorola Equipment. It happened because TWC is in the SA camp just like Comcast is in the Motorola camp.

They only are in the other camp when they buy new systems - or consolidate them - and most often they are stuck for a long time with the other - as no one wants to spend what could easily be $250Million+ in a large market changing out equipment just for the sake of changing brands.

I don't think it's a matter of being unfair. I think it's a matter of not knowing what is actually causing the failures. If they were to simply add FF4 and Start From Beginning options to a known, relatively stable version, you would be entirely correct to chastize them. However, I think we all know that much more is being done behind what we see. Unfortunately, I can't imagine what could have been done to 1.87.x.x for Cablevision to make 1.88.x.x so unstable on any system other than Cablevision.

<< SNIP >>


I think a couple of other cable companys have released 1.88.x.x only to revert back to a previous version very quickly. Some cable companys haven't released it.

Does anyone know what the specific problems are in 1.88.x.x?

Yes, I suspect almost all cableco's have tested 1.88.x.x with some going so far as releasing it only to find stuff they didn't catch during in-house testing. Unfortunately, that is the nature of the beast.

My personal opinion is that they got themselves stuck with a lousy software design and spend an inordinate amount of time trying to make it work everywhere when they might be better off just redesigning from the ground up. However, that is a double-edged sword because other things are coming that might make SARA, etc., OBE sooner rather than later.

I think DaveHancock and Marketing Prof have it right. They do start with a set of requirments, etc., but they also skew toward the low end when budgeting, etc. :)

1. Is there any reason to set the output of the box to anything other than 1080i? I understand that this may result in the box up-converting the resolution when it is less than 1080i, but is that going to make, say, a 480i or 720p program look any worse?

2. Which is supposed to be the "better" native resolution - 720p or 1080i?

1. Is there any reason to set the output of the box to anything other than 1080i? I understand that this may result in the box up-converting the resolution when it is less than 1080i, but is that going to make, say, a 480i or 720p program look any worse?

2. Which is supposed to be the "better" native resolution - 720p or 1080i?
My answer to both of your questions would be, "it depends."

1. It depends on your monitor. If the monitor (like mine) converts all incoming signals to its native rate, then pass-through may provide a better picture since it is only converted once, by your monitor. If the monitor's native rate is one of the output choices on the STB, and it will recognize it as such and not convert the signal again, then it may be better to have the box output constantly at that rate, assuming the STB converts better than your monitor (however, that may be a rare instance).

2. From my experience and knowledge I've gained from others, it depends on the program material. Fast motion (e.g., most sports, action movies) is better in 720p; 1080i seems to get the nod for more static pictures (e.g., romantic comedy movies). It also depends on many other factors about the quality of the signal form the camera down to your monitor. Personally, I find the 720p material of slightly higher quality in my home, but I would never be able to point to any single factor as the reason.

1. Is there any reason to set the output of the box to anything other than 1080i? I understand that this may result in the box up-converting the resolution when it is less than 1080i, but is that going to make, say, a 480i or 720p program look any worse?

2. Which is supposed to be the "better" native resolution - 720p or 1080i?

To amplify on what MarketingProf said to some degree: Many sets (Plasmas & LCDs) are not native at either 720 or 1080 horizontal scan lines- they are computer based at 768 lines. In this case EVERYTHING has to be converted . Rather than have two conversions (the SA converting 720p to 1080i then the set converting 1080i down to 768p), it is usually best to have the SA8300 set at "Pass Thru" (or "Auto HDMI") and let the set take care of it.

But there is a downside to "Pass Thru", if you are using the HDMI connection: many sets, don't accept 480i on HDMI. Upconvert-1, and Upconvert-2 can resolve this issue. Another downside, some sets take a long time to resync when changing scan rates. If you change channels a lot, this might be unacceptable.

If you have one of these 768 line sets and if you get HDNet, I'd suggest recording their test patterns (6AM Tuesday mornings) and evaluate the resolution patterns with different output scan rates from the SA8300. You will get a pretty good idea of how well your set handles 720p and 1080i. Unfortunately, the HDNet patterns are at 1080i, so you really cannot draw a solid conclusion about handling 720p programs.

If you have one of these 768 line sets and if you get HDNet, I'd suggest recording their test patterns (6AM Tuesday mornings) and evaluate the resolution patterns with different output scan rates from the SA8300. You will get a pretty good idea of how well your set handles 720p and 1080i. Unfortunately, the HDNet patterns are at 1080i, so you really cannot draw a solid conclusion about handling 720p programs. Ooooh. Good idea. I've recorded it but never tried that (and I do have a 768p set). Thanks!

I should have added that awhile ago I calibrated a 40" Sony Bravia LCD, which was a 768 set, and the customer did not like the Re-Sync time. He had recorded the HDNet patterns, and I was shocked at the difference on that set between the 720p and 1080i renditions. The 1080i was much better.

To amplify on what MarketingProf said to some degree: Many sets (Plasmas & LCDs) are not native at either 720 or 1080 horizontal scan lines- they are computer based at 768 lines. In this case EVERYTHING has to be converted . Rather than have two conversions (the SA converting 720p to 1080i then the set converting 1080i down to 768p), it is usually best to have the SA8300 set at "Pass Thru" (or "Auto HDMI") and let the set take care of it.

But there is a downside to "Pass Thru", if you are using the HDMI connection: many sets, don't accept 480i on HDMI. Upconvert-1, and Upconvert-2 can resolve this issue. Another downside, some sets take a long time to resync when changing scan rates. If you change channels a lot, this might be unacceptable.

If you have one of these 768 line sets and if you get HDNet, I'd suggest recording their test patterns (6AM Tuesday mornings) and evaluate the resolution patterns with different output scan rates from the SA8300. You will get a pretty good idea of how well your set handles 720p and 1080i. Unfortunately, the HDNet patterns are at 1080i, so you really cannot draw a solid conclusion about handling 720p programs.

Interesting. I don't know what the native resolution is of my set (Maxent MX-50X3), but I do know that when I use the pass-through option, broadcasts in 480i look terrible. If I upconvert to 480p then the picture improves markedly. I wasn't noticing much if any difference between upconverted 480p and 1080i on 480i broadcasts, but I did not do a lot of testing. I use the component inputs, if that means anything. I have a DVD player hooked up the HDMI input.

Yes, you have a 768 (x1366) display, which is typical of most Plasmas.

Having component connections only means that you are not limited by the 480i limitation with some display's HDMI connection.

If 480i is terrible then it appears that your set is not doing a good job of upconverting SD. I'd suggest that you experiment with 1080i vs 720p from the box. All the better if you can use the HDNet test patterns.

There are 2 reasons that I know of for using 480p in addition to 720p/1080i:

1. Many HDTVs can't stretch 720p/1080i images and that results in side bars that can either be distracting or cause uneven phosphor wear on CRT-based sets. While the 8300 will stretch these images, oftentimes the HDTVs stretch modes are preferred.

2. As vegggas has mentioned many times, video can get locked in 480 mode if 480p is not enabled, though I assume this is only if 480i is enabled in the first place. :)

If you don't have HDNet, INHD also broadcasts an HD Tuneup early (5:00 MST) on Saturday mornings, check your local listing if you have INHD.

Dave,

The INHD test patterns don't have a good resolution pattern. And you need that to make this evaluation.

Didn't know that, thanks. What about AVIA or DVE?

We choose to use cable and their relatively cheap equipment instead of satellite and Tivo because of cost, yet we demand Tivo performance and features.

Actually, I use cable instead of satellite because of my belief that cable will be more reliable overall than satellite (plus I have cable modem for internet access). I use the 8300HD because (AFAIK) there isn't an HD tivo or replaytv that I can buy that will work with cable.

Didn't know that, thanks. What about AVIA or DVE?

Well they are not HD, and even wth an upconverting DVD player, the base resolution on them is still SD - so you will not see the conversion artifacts with them.

If you don't have access to HDNet test patterns, try to find a HD program you have recorded on the 8300 that has LOTS of detail (like a brick wall in the background).

Actually, I use cable instead of satellite because of my belief that cable will be more reliable overall than satellite (plus I have cable modem for internet access). I use the 8300HD because (AFAIK) there isn't an HD tivo or replaytv that I can buy that will work with cable.Yes, of course, I do too. The statement wasn't meant to convey the only reason folks choose cable. :)

I came home last night and my SA8300HD was absolutely dead...I've only had it for 3 weeks.....

I unplugged it, waited, replugged....heard the machine turn on in some fashion, but nothing happened..no lights, no nothing.....can i assume she's dead jim?

I lost 24 I am so damn pissed!

Side note: Do they replay 24 at all? Is there a time slot i may be able to tape it in on my sd dvr?

They may replay the chapter, but you have to check fox.com, titantv.com, or your guide. They already replayed 2 chapters back to back on a Friday. In any case you can set your new 8300 for all episodes on the channel.

Dammit antneye, I'm a doctor, not an electronics technician!

But it sounds like it's time for the ol' swaperoo, if you ask me, which you did...

Jim

Antneye,
Does that cable outlet still work? If the 8300 looses the digital path it will act useless, but I'm not sure it acts totally dead. Been a while since a digital only outage.

TerryB

Antneye,

If you haven't already taken the 8300 back, try pressing and holding the Power button while plugging the power cord back in. I don't know that it will help, but you've got nothing to lose if you can't swap it out right away.

Thanks for the tips. I didnt even think to check the cable connection. Although from memory it looked secure. I doubt that thats it, but its worth checking.

I will also try the power button trick. If it gets it to work at least I can watch my taped shows, but I will prob swap it out anyway just to be safe.

antneye,
Remember that the 8300 needs to talk with the other end and that some failures can disable it because it can't talk with the headend, when other equipment will be plain happy.

Good Luck,

TerryB

Dave Lanton poses a question about using 2 8300's in the same room and I thought I'd post the link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=654562) to his thread to help make sure anyone with some info sees it. He originally posed the question in the Master Links thread and I wasn't sure how many folks read that thread. I actually expected him to cross-post here, but he chose a new thread instead. :)

FWIW, I thought toggling the power was mentioned once before regarding using 2 SA tuners (8300 and 3250) in the same room, but I couldn't remember for sure.

I have a Sony 50A10 -- a native 720p (1280x720) HDTV, connected by component.

1) If want all HD programming to come in as 720p -- so during Advanced Setup -- I enable 720p. Now both 720p and 1080i should PASS THROUGH at 720p.

The AUTO indicator is on.

And this seems to work fine. The 720P indicator is ON and whenever there is an HD signal, the HDTV indicator comes on.


2) I want 480i programming to PASS THROUGH as 480i so the Sony's DRC circuit will do the upconvert. (DRC ONLY works with 480i signals._ So during Advanced Setup -- I enable both 720p and 480i Widescreen.

This simply does not work! The 720P indicator is always ON even with 480i signals. It makes no difference what the menu setting is: The AUTO indicator is always on except when the FIXED is selected. Then AUTO goes off. PASS THROUGH seems to do nothing!

Yes -- I press ACCEPT.

It looks like it tries to send at the highest rez you have selected during Advanced Setup, no matter the signal.

And, it really is sending only 720p!


Now if I choose ONLY 480i Widescreen -- it does pass 480i, and DRC works fine.

Since I don't know of any 480i "Widescreen" channels that's probably the issue. Try enabling 480i Standard. That should allow regular, 480i analog channels to passthru to the TV and let the DRC scaler do its work.

I have a Sony 50A10 -- a native 720p (1280x720) HDTV, connected by component.

1) If want all HD programming to come in as 720p -- so during Advanced Setup -- I enable 720p. Now both 720p and 1080i should PASS THROUGH at 720p.

The AUTO indicator is on.

And this seems to work fine. The 720P indicator is ON and whenever there is an HD signal, the HDTV indicator comes on.


2) I want 480i programming to PASS THROUGH as 480i so the Sony's DRC circuit will do the upconvert. (DRC ONLY works with 480i signals._ So during Advanced Setup -- I enable both 720p and 480i Widescreen.

This simply does not work! The 720P indicator is always ON even with 480i signals. It makes no difference what the menu setting is: The AUTO indicator is always on except when the FIXED is selected. Then AUTO goes off. PASS THROUGH seems to do nothing!

Yes -- I press ACCEPT.

It looks like it tries to send at the highest rez you have selected during Advanced Setup, no matter the signal.

And, it really is sending only 720p!


Now if I choose ONLY 480i Widescreen -- it does pass 480i, and DRC works fine.


are you using HDMI? i've seen problems like this from that

Hey all, I'm a rookie at all this stuff, and the more I search the more I become confused. Looking for some help with this 8300HD box. I have the Sony KDF-E42A10, which to my knowledge has a native resolution of 720p. Well, I've enabled all resolutions on the cable box by going through the advanced set up process. I then use the cable box and select Upconvert-2 from the settings menu, which seems to convert everything to 720p. I use HDMI to connect my cable box and tv.
My question is this, am I getting the best 'bang for my buck' with these settings? Should I not use upconvert 2? Should I do something totally different? I love the picture I get with ESPN, Discovery, and CBS! But the picture on NESN HD is smaller and not as crisp, is this because they broadcast in 1080i, or is it because I've set it up incorrectly? Also, i notice that some of the HD movie channels look awful when playing movies or shows, is this because the content isn't in HD?
Basically, i just need to hear that I'm doing all I can do to get the best looking content possible, or for someone to tell me what I am doing wrong and maybe some suggestions on how to amend it!
Thanks for any help in advance!

I have a question... My local provider is missing about half of the local channels in HD, even though they are available OTA. This means no FOX-HD, no ABC-HD, and a couple others. Unaccceptable. Is there a way I can hook an OTA antenna up to my HD DVR (SA8300) for recording stuff? Probably not, but worth asking... Thanks.

I have a question... My local provider is missing about half of the local channels in HD, even though they are available OTA. This means no FOX-HD, no ABC-HD, and a couple others. Unaccceptable. Is there a way I can hook an OTA antenna up to my HD DVR (SA8300) for recording stuff? Probably not, but worth asking... Thanks.

No. It may pick up the vhf channels thinking its cable, but no HD.

Saturday I recorded the ACC tournament semifinals with my SA8300HD. The compression artifacts were severe.

Earlier this week, Time Warner announced that they had begun offering all digital channels to customers with digital STBs. Up until then, digital subscribers were watching the first 78 channels in analog mode.

I expected an improvement in recorded quality. I had been disappointed at the quality of digitizing of analog channels from the SA8300HD compared to my Panasonic E-85. I assumed that the SA8300HD simply captured the digital stream on digital channels, so that recorded digital broadcasts would be as good as live.

However, the quality of my recordings of these channels, which I believe to now be digital, is much inferior to live.

This poor quality is in marked contrast to recordings of the SD channels in the digital movie pack, which seem identical to live.

Does anyone know what the 8300 is doing? Is it transcoding to a lower bitrate? Is it doing some strange digital to analog to digital conversion?

My recordings of the digital SD channels is better than the analog encoding before. TWC Greensboro NC. The SD picture is probably between SVCD and DVD quality. I would guess a bitrate of between 2.5-5 Mbits.

My recordings of the digital SD channels is better than the analog encoding before. TWC Greensboro NC. The SD picture is probably between SVCD and DVD quality. I would guess a bitrate of between 2.5-5 Mbits.

I failed to mention that my cable company is Time Warner Winston-Salem.

Does anyone know what the 8300 is doing?You might want to drop into the service menu and confirm whether or not your 8300 is using the new digital simulcast channels or the analog channels.

Recorded digital channels should look the exact same as they do live. If they don't ... my guess would be an issue with the muxing or encoding or grooming (at the head end) that the 8300 is (for some reason) having a problem with.

But my first guess would be that the 8300 is still using / recording the analog channels for some reason (there could be several reasons for that).

I have an SA8300HD (DVR) (through TWC). I haven't double checked the back of it in a while but I seem to remember that is has an SATA port but no Firewire.

I want to add an External HD.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Hey all, I'm a rookie at all this stuff, and the more I search the more I become confused. Looking for some help with this 8300HD box. I have the Sony KDF-E42A10, which to my knowledge has a native resolution of 720p. Well, I've enabled all resolutions on the cable box by going through the advanced set up process. I then use the cable box and select Upconvert-2 from the settings menu, which seems to convert everything to 720p. I use HDMI to connect my cable box and tv.
My question is this, am I getting the best 'bang for my buck' with these settings? Should I not use upconvert 2? Should I do something totally different? I love the picture I get with ESPN, Discovery, and CBS! But the picture on NESN HD is smaller and not as crisp, is this because they broadcast in 1080i, or is it because I've set it up incorrectly? Also, i notice that some of the HD movie channels look awful when playing movies or shows, is this because the content isn't in HD?
Basically, i just need to hear that I'm doing all I can do to get the best looking content possible, or for someone to tell me what I am doing wrong and maybe some suggestions on how to amend it!
Thanks for any help in advance!

////////////////////////////////////

Didn't see any response so here goes, hope I don't confuse you. There seems to be lots of problems noted by HDMI users, I can't speak for them cause I use component. I have a Samsung HLN437W DLP, 720p res, and a Toshiba 32HF94 LCD, 768 res. I have all resolutions enabled on the 8300HD also, and set the box hooked to the Samsung to fixed 1080i and the box hooked to the Toshiba to fixed 720P. I get true HD on the HD channels (if the signal is true HD!) and the SD channels come in with borders on the sides. If you don't want bars on the SD channels, you use upconvert 1 or 2, or pass through. I think the Samsung looks great with 1080i fixed and the Toshiba looks great with 720P fixed, just my pref.
If you are using upconvert 2, your box converts 1080i signals to 720p and lets 720P signals (ABC-HD, ESPN-HD) come thru as is. Also you should have SD channels in stretch mode (but I could be wrong on SD since HDMI might work differently). I don't think we have NESNHD in Vegas, what is that? Have you tried using pass through when watching that channel?

If you notice what you think is not an HD picture on your HD channels, it may well be because the signal is not HD. TNTHD broadcasts some shows in stretch 480i/p mode, looks real bad, but their NBA HD games are fantastic. Other HD channels also broadcast non-HD signals so that is probably what is happening. Cox Cable's program guide here tells us if an HD channel is broadcasting in HD, so that helps out a lot. You may want to try component cables and see what is up with your picture quality; if the same issues arise, then it is most likely the signals and that's all.

I have an SA8300HD (DVR) (through TWC). I haven't double checked the back of it in a while but I seem to remember that is has an SATA port but no Firewire.

I want to add an External HD.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
Here's the official thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

You might want to drop into the service menu and confirm whether or not your 8300 is using the new digital simulcast channels or the analog channels.


What do I look for in the service menu? And if I AM still using the analog channels, is there something I can do to change it?

You might want to drop into the service menu and confirm whether or not your 8300 is using the new digital simulcast channels or the analog channels.

How does one do that?

I assume dt_dc is talking about the diagnostics screens. Page 1 shows RF Parameters about halfway down. When you are tuned to an analog channel, Tuner 1 displays "Analog". However, when you are tuned to a digital channel, it shows the signal strength instead.

HDMI or Component connection to a Philips LCD TV.
My Philips LCD has two HDMI ports and component. My cable provider hear in Hawaii offically does not support the HDMI port, but I am using it anyways. Or would I be better of just using component? I subscribe to all the HD channels hear which there not many.
Thanks

I assume dt_dc is talking about the diagnostics screens. Page 1 shows RF Parameters about halfway down. When you are tuned to an analog channel, Tuner 1 displays "Analog". However, when you are tuned to a digital channel, it shows the signal strength instead.

Thanks to both of you for the tips. Indeed, this channel is being received in analog mode.

Thanks.

I've been searching this forum for a while and can't find a fix for this. I hope someone can help...

I recently (2 weeks ago) received an explorer 8300HD box from Time Warner Cable in New York. It seems to work fine with component cables, but I am having problems with the HDMI > DVI connection on my Westinghouse LTV-32w1 TV.

The SD and HD channels are much clearer over the HDMI>DVI connection, so I would prefer to use it. The problem is that I can only use the 1080i output mode. 480 leaves a static line at the top of the screen when viewing SD channels, and 720p zooms in to the point where it is unusable. Even when I am watching an HD channel, the aspect ratio must be set to side bar or else it zooms improperly. Also, watching SD channels in 1080i creates gray side bars, and also smaller black bars within those.

I have tried to access the setup menu, but pressing the guide and info button does nothing (and yes, the box is off when I try this). There is also no option to select pass through or any of those options in the menu, only output format and aspect ratio.

Any ideas? Do you think this is a bad box, or is there a new software release out there that has cut out the pass through menu?

Any help is appreciated!

kevkoy,
I believe what you are seeiing indicates you have Passport software so this SARA thread will just confuse you. There is an 8300HD Passport thread in the forum.

TerryB

Yes, I guess I do have passport. I didn't realize there were two different types.

I see a lot of posts on the other thread related to these isuues... Thanks for your help.

Thanks to both of you for the tips. Indeed, this channel is being received in analog mode.

Thanks.

When TWC did this where I used to live, the digital versions of channels 2-87 were in their own set of channels, ie 302-387. Take a look through your program guide and see if this is the case for you.

When TWC did this where I used to live, the digital versions of channels 2-87 were in their own set of channels, ie 302-387. Take a look through your program guide and see if this is the case for you.Oh, and you may want to do a "reboot" (see first page for how) and / or "flash" the box (most cable companies have a automated support line to do this). This will make sure you've got the latest guide data / channel mappings / CA authorization. All this should (eventually) trickle down to your box ... but sometimes rebooting and flashing will let you pick up the digital simulcast channels faster.

TWC did have the SD channels in the 900 series during beta testing. The SD digital channels are now mapped to the regular channel numbers. I am not sure if *all* the SD channels are being sent digital. For some reason we have ABC SD digital on 530 in the HD channels area and on CH7 in SD. I have not checked to see if there is any difference.

TWC did have the SD channels in the 900 series during beta testing. The SD digital channels are now mapped to the regular channel numbers. I am not sure if *all* the SD channels are being sent digital. For some reason we have ABC SD digital on 530 in the HD channels area and on CH7 in SD. I have not checked to see if there is any difference.

I spoke with the TWC support person today. Apparently the roll out of a complete set of digital channels is not complete, Winston-Salem Journal story notwithstanding. Some areas have been converted, but many have not.

At my house, channels 2 - 77 are still analog. I am able to get 530 in digital SD at my house already. I suppose TWC is using that to get people used to the location in case WXLV ever decides to let them carry their HD channel for free.

One interesting side note: the analog channels now appear to be distributed through the county digitally, and then converted to analog somewhere in the neighborhood of the customer. Last night I noticed some analog channels showing severe digital artifacts -- tiling, picture freezes, etc. Just while surfing, I noticed it on channels 15, 34, 67, and 69.

On the SA8300 HD DVR with Sara,
Is there a way to change the gray bars to black? I don't want to distort the picture, just change the gray bars to black....?


Please let me know
Thanks...

General Settings/Set: TV Borders (Light, Medium, Dark).

It might not affect CBS though, which apparently over-rides the settings.

I should have mentioned that only applies to non-HD channels. There is no way that I know of to change the bars on HD channels broadcasting non-HD content.

[QUOTE=DoubleDAZ] error

It might not affect CBS though, which apparently over-rides the settings.It's not that CBS overrides the settings; it's that the settings aren't applicable. HD stations, by definition, are broadcasting a 16:9 picture. If the source program is only 4:3 (because it wasn't filmed/recorded using HD equipment) then the broadcaster needs to "fill the blank space" with something. My local Fox station uses shimmering blue bars that have the station's call letters embedded in the graphic. I think ESPN does something similar. Other stations just fill in with simple gray or black bars. (TNT sometimes stretches the 4:3 image into a 16:9 picture, using a method that puts most of the "stretch" on the edges of the image, minimizing the distortion of the stuff in the middle of the picture.)

Your STB doesn't know there are "bars" in the image. All it knows is that it's showing you the 16:9 program the network is broadcasting. It can't tell the network has "padded" a 4:3 program with some graphic overlay.

The only time your STB adds its own bars is when, like the broadcaster mentioned above, it has to pad a 4:3 SD program that you've forced it to display in 16:9 widescreen format. Like the broadcaster above, the STB has to put *something* there to fill out the screen, and there are options for you to choose the color it fills the bars with.

Thanks for explaining, jruhnke!

There are times I get a lot of stuttering (for lack of a better term) where the picture blocks out and I lose the audio - getting a digital squeal.

From checking the signal levels from the 8300's diagnostic pages the signal looks like its adequate for the box, so I'm not sure whats causing the problem.

Invasion, which I recorded last night (3/15) had a ton of breakup/squealing throughout - really gets annoying after awhile since it distracts from the enjoyment of the show.

Any ideas if there is anything I can do to try and determine the source of the problem? I guess I don't know if I've got a cable problem, a DVR problem, a intermittent signal issue, or if its the local affiliates or what...

a) do you get blocking with live picture also or only recorded?
b) do you get this on all channels or only certain ones?
c) is your DVR disc almost full or empty
d) Are you talking HD, SD or both?
You need to find patern and take it from there.
I had some macroblocking at certain times and certain channels and then it would go away, I'm almost 100% sure it was originating at cable co. As a matter of fact it seems my cable company gets some channel feeds from sattelite and those are affected by bad weather. You could also ask this question in the forum dedicated to your cable area to see if others experienced the same thing, pointing to cable issues.

Thanks for your suggestions Pete.

I haven't noticed a pattern yet but have seen it in both live and recorded shows. I only notice it with the HD or digital channels or recordings of those channels. I have a few SD-analog shows recorded, I'll have to check those out tomorrow or saturday to see if there were any issues with them.

I'll check in the local hdtv forum to see if anyone else had the problems - thanks for that suggestion :)

I was thinking, its too bad the 8300 can't show a graph of the signal level or some sort of historical trend to help diagnose something like this.

General Settings/Set: TV Borders (Light, Medium, Dark).


Thanks so much for your help. I really appreciate it. Watching Cable is now so much more bearable....

I hope this hasn't been covered already but I searched and even posted this in the wrong forum :(

I'm having issues with sound from my 8300. I have the 8300 hooked up to my TV via HDMI. If I select Audio Out-HDMI my receiver shows the signal to be Dolby Surround and the audio is flat sounding. In this configuration I have a Toslink from my TV to the receiver. I know my TV is capable of DD sound because I was doing it with OTA signals.

If I select Dolby Digital from the Audio menu and have the Toslink from the 8300 to the receiver even thing is fine. I get full 5.1 sound and the receiver shows it as such.

So you ask what's the problem right? Just leave it that way. Well that would be fine but my wife just wants to watch TV. She doesn't want to turn the receiver on all the time. That's the rub. If I have it set to DD there's no sound going to the TV. I even have analog RCA cables hooked from the 8300 to the TV (which seem to be disabled).

I've contacted the TV manufacturer and the rep I talked to said the TV should output DD and it supports HDMI DD.

Is there any suggestions you could give me in this situation?

I hope this hasn't been covered already but I searched and even posted this in the wrong forum :(

I'm having issues with sound from my 8300. I have the 8300 hooked up to my TV via HDMI. If I select Audio Out-HDMI my receiver shows the signal to be Dolby Surround and the audio is flat sounding. In this configuration I have a Toslink from my TV to the receiver. I know my TV is capable of DD sound because I was doing it with OTA signals.

If I select Dolby Digital from the Audio menu and have the Toslink from the 8300 to the receiver even thing is fine. I get full 5.1 sound and the receiver shows it as such.

So you ask what's the problem right? Just leave it that way. Well that would be fine but my wife just wants to watch TV. She doesn't want to turn the receiver on all the time. That's the rub. If I have it set to DD there's no sound going to the TV. I even have analog RCA cables hooked from the 8300 to the TV (which seem to be disabled).

This is a common problem with most TVs today. Most TV manufactures have not implemented HDMI with the necessary 5.1 channel circuitry. Many TVs can accept a 5.1 channel signal OTA but not over HDMI.

Read the section “Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?” from the HDMI web site. http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp


I've contacted the TV manufacturer and the rep I talked to said the TV should output DD and it supports HDMI DD.

Is there any suggestions you could give me in this situation?

This is a common problem with most TVs today. Most TV manufactures have not implemented HDMI with 5.1 channel circuitry. Many TVs can accept a 5.1 channel signal OTA but not over HDMI.

Read the section “Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?” from the HDMI web site. http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp

I don't know. When I spoke with the guy about the TV he said it should. Of course he also said it's a black science and sometimes something should work but doesn't always. I actually moved the component over to the other input on the TV (which has audio) and that seems to work as I want. I've got HD over component and sound regardless of having the receiver on or off. So all seems well other than the fact that I can't use HDMI (not sure that I really need/want to anyway).

I must say I read through this thread a bit and did learn something that will also make my wife happy. I saw the first page where it was talking about picture shape. I set it up and now my wife can watch SD channels without the window boxing or worse zooming and cutting off part of the screen. So I'm very appreciative to those tips. Thanks. She's used to watching it stretched so that'll make her happy. That's what really matters right? ;-)

I recorded Medium on NBC monday night and was watching it today.
With 23 minutes left in the show, during a commercial break, the video just froze, however the audio kept playing.

I tried fast forwarding past the point, even skipping to the end, but the video just stays with the same picture.

I am assuming that the video stream experienced some sort of unrecoverable error, has anyone ever heard of this happening? Is there a way to skip past the bad part?

Strange thing is up until that point, the entire show had absolutely no problems, no pixelization, no digital audio squeals, etc.

BTW, this was an HDTV broadcast which I recorded.

I had a similar issue with Medium previously (I haven't watched all of Monday's show yet so it may be an issue with that one also). Once I was unable to fast forward through one section of a show and had to start from the end and work backwards...very weird.

I had that problem once with a different show, except in my case both the audio and the video playback froze. I could never get the box to FF through the problem area, but I figured out that I could jump to the end of the show and back up to just past it, and I watched the rest of the program with no problems.

Thanks so much for your help. I really appreciate it. Watching Cable is now so much more bearable....You're most welcome. I assume you have tried the stretch modes offered by your TV o tolly get rid of the bars and didn't like them.It took me a few days to get used to the expanded mode offered by my Hitachi, but now I'm so used to it, I don't even notice the distortion anymore.

I've had the video freeze too, though it was on CBS because our local folks were testing mulitcasting for March Madness. They tried to feed a 15Mbps SD channel and the cable mux choked on it. They backed it down to 6Mbps and everything is fine, no further freezes on CBS recordings.

crawdad, I think that's the best you're going to be able to do. Some HDMI setups work and others don't, just the nature of the beast. FWIW though, there is a big difference between a TV that can "accept" a DD 5.1 signal and one that can actually "use" the signal to output DD 5.1 audio via TV speakers or even pass it through the TV correctly. An analogy is that while many HDTVs accept 720p signals, they still have to display them at 1080i or vice versa. or whatever the TVs native format is.

There's a new show, Heist, starting the 22nd that I want to record. I go to it in the guide and it's already red. I select it and get a choice "Cancel Heist" or "Edit Heist". I select "Edit Heist", and then I find I'm editing another show. The channel & time match a placeholder for the other show.

So do I have to delete the old show recording and remember to add it again when it comes back in a week or two?

Thanks,
LB

Looks like it. Chances are though that Heist will be replacing whatever was in this slot before, so you may not have to remember the other show or you will have to reschedule it anyway for a different slot. :)

Looks like it. Chances are though that Heist will be replacing whatever was in this slot before, so you may not have to remember the other show or you will have to reschedule it anyway for a different slot. :)
Actually, the other show is coming back and isn't even on that day of the week anyway. I'm at a loss trying to guess how placeholders get scattered all over. Today, 3/18, with guide data through 3/24, I have placeholders at 3/7, 3/17, 3/19, 3/21, 3/22, 3/24, 3/25, & 3/26. It'd be nice if they were all kept "in the past" or more than a week out so they wouldn't conflict with real shows in the guide.

Looking at two First Run shows that were recorded and watched last night, one has a place holder on 3/19 and another at 3/26 (neither on a Friday, the day of the week for those shows).

Thanks again,
LB

Can you be a little more specific? What show are you talking about? How is the recording scheduled? New Episodes? All Episodes This Timeslot? All Episodes Any Timeslot?

It should be noted that the 8300HD can also be connected to one device via HDMI and to another device via Component at the same time. In fact, a local member has it connected through a Geffen 4x1 DVI swither, and a 45 foot DVI cable, to his Marantz VP12S3. While this is supposed to be way beyond DVI specs, it has worked flawlessly. This same 8300 is also connected via Component cables to a W-VHS deck for permanent archiving. Note 1 above also applies. (kloarizona)

Is this quote from the initial post still true that the 8300 will output a signal on the HDMI and component connections at the same time? Is there a trick to getting this working because I'm having no luck.

Is it possible to have a HD signal going through the HDMI connection and a 480i signal throught the component at the same time for my DVD recorder?

Is this quote from the initial post still true that the 8300 will output a signal on the HDMI and component connections at the same time? Is there a trick to getting this working because I'm having no luck.

Is it possible to have a HD signal going through the HDMI connection and a 480i signal throught the component at the same time for my DVD recorder?

right now it's only one at a time

Something weird- this Wednesday Survivor and CSI:NY were supposed to record. My wife checked "Scheduled Recordings" and definitely saw Survivor listed. She is pretty sure that she saw the recording light on at the right time. But later that night neither show was listed in "Recorded Programs". We know CSI:NY was on, because it got recorded on one of our ReplayTVs (no big deal, it was a rerun). We thought maybe Survivor didn't get recorded because it was a clip show and maybe the name was slightly different. Both shows are set up as record all episodes, all times, save all episodes.

Sunday morning, my wife turns on the 8300 and those 2 shows are now listed in the Recorded List, even though we have played lots of shows between Wed night and Sun morning, and they weren't listed before. They both show Wed 3/15 at the correct times, and both show a length of 1hr 0 min. But when we try to play them, the box tunes to "DVR playback channel" and nothing happens.

I guess we'll swap this 8300 out. The last Amazing Race only recorded 16 minutes (the only time this has happened to us). We also have a recurring problem where we can't pause or rewind live TV, and have to reboot the box.

seanriddle.
Are you quite sure about the CSINY showing? I didn't watch any, but the NCAA basketball tournement started Wednesday I think on CBS for sure.

TerryB

right now it's only one at a timeI believe that is based on the software version you have. If that turns out not to be the case, then I'll remove that part from the tips post. I guess we need to know if anyone is still using both HDMI and Component at the same time.

Can you be a little more specific? What show are you talking about? How is the recording scheduled? New Episodes? All Episodes This Timeslot? All Episodes Any Timeslot?
I've already canceled Medium so I could record Heist and wrote myself a note to re-add Medium in a few days. The rest was just ranting about the mysterious nature of placeholders.

All my recordings are "All episodes, First Run".

The shows from my Friday example were Las Vegas and Monk. Both were recorded, watched and deleted Friday. Las Vegas now has a placeholder on the 19th. Monk now has a placeholder on the 26th. Are other people's placeholders more consistent?

LB

I believe that is based on the software version you have. If that turns out not to be the case, then I'll remove that part from the tips post. I guess we need to know if anyone is still using both HDMI and Component at the same time.


Should simultaneous output be something that just works out of the box, or would this need to be turned on?

seanriddle.
Are you quite sure about the CSINY showing? I didn't watch any, but the NCAA basketball tournement started Wednesday I think on CBS for sure.

TerryB
Terry-

It's possible that the Replay thought CSI:NY was on and recorded basketball. We didn't watch the episode, since we saw from the description that it was a repeat. But the 8300 must have also thought CSI:NY was on, since it showed up in the recorded list this morning.

We were going to retire at least one of the Replays, but it seems safer to keep it as a backup for the 8300. I'd rather get a show that way than have to grab it from a bit torrent.

HDTVforme,

It should work out of the box. If it doesn't, there is no option that I know of to turn it on. I don't know if it still works or not, but I believe those having problems have newer software.

LazyBoy1,

I'm not sure what you mean by "more consistent". If the program is in the IPG for the following week, a new placeholder will be set for that day. If it's not in the IPG, then the placeholder will display the date of last recording, basically the last time it was in the IPG.

One problem is that only the Title gets checked, not the New Episode flag. If they checked that flag, they could just leave the old placeholder in the schedule. Then you would have been able to schedule a recording for Heist without having to first cancel Medium.

It can get even more muddled if you select a program in the IPG, but it's a rerun. If you schedule a New Episode recording, it will get scheduled, but you won't see it in the list until a New episode actually hits the IPG. It's there, but you can't see it and you really can't edit it, though selecting it again in the IPG will let you change the schedule.

I'm not sure what you mean by "more consistent". If the program is in the IPG for the following week, a new placeholder will be set for that day. If it's not in the IPG, then the placeholder will display the date of last recording, basically the last time it was in the IPG.

Ah. I've been using the term "placeholder" differently. I've been using it strictly for your last meaning above, Scheduled Recordings listings for shows that are not currently in the IPG data.

My placeholders for shows not in the IPG are not on "the date of last recording". They are scattered all over. And as I check my Scheduled Recordings to write this post I see the pattern.

Right now (late Sunday) in my Scheduled Recordings list I have 9 things on Tuesday 3/28, which is beyond my guide data. All of them are Sunday shows, including CBS News Sunday Morning. :)

Monk was on Friday 3/17, but now has a Sunday 2/26 placeholder. Medium was on Monday, got a placeholder on a Wednesday which caused me a problem later when adding a new Wednesday show. The only one that doesn't fit is Las Vegas which somehow got a placeholder two days after the last recording instead of nine. I'll throw out that data point.

So on my system, after a show is recorded a placeholder is set 9 days out, beyond the guide data. This corrects when the guide data catches up, unless the show doesn't play that week. In the cases where the show doesn't play that week, I have a phantom-placeholder which can cause problems when adding new recordings.

FWIW, I'm on Cablevision with 1.88.15.3.

LB

The 9 days out is how the placeholder works in the 1.88.xx.x versions we have had with Cablevision. I have never had a problem with scheduling new recordings when a placeholder is in the same time slot however.

Man, I see what you mean. I hadn't seen anyone mention anything about new placeholders in 1.88.x.x, but it sure seems to make things a little worse instead of better. Why 9 days out though when the new scheduled showing would be 7 days out, not counting the current day, 1 day past the current IPG for weekly shows? When does it get changed to the actual date? When that 9th date is hit?

It took a little while to get used to, but I like the 9 day out placeholder in 1.88.xx.x. When a scheduled recording starts it sets the placeholder for 9 days out. For example, when the Sopranos started to record last night, I looked in my scheduled recording list I saw the Sopranos set to record on Tues 3/28. This morning after the guide date for 3/26 was populated a new first run Sopranos on HBO was in that data which was the parameters of the placeholder dated 3/28. My scheduled recording list now shows the Sopranos set to record on Sun 3/26. If there was no match in the guide data then the 3/28 placeholder would remain until the guide provided a match.

I apologize in advance if this has already been covered. Is there a way to stop a program and start it from where I left off? With my old DirecTV Tivo I could stop watching a program and go back days later and it would start me from when I left off. With this box, it seems to start back from the beginning. Very annoying to have to find where I left off in a 2 or 3 hour program. Any tips? Thank you!

No, you are stuck. If you don't watch another recording in between, it will remember where you were (tune to the DVR channel and press Play), but that's it for now. The 8300 is only a glorified digital VCR and while improvements are being made or are in the works, it's taking a very long time. :(

No, you are stuck. If you don't watch another recording in between, it will remember where you were (tune to the DVR channel and press Play), but that's it for now. The 8300 is only a glorified digital VCR and while improvements are being made or are in the works, it's taking a very long time. :(

Thanks for the response. Good to know it should hold my place as long as I don't watch another recorded program in between.

Hopefully things will get better.

Hey DoubleDAZ, what about adding minutes that don't go away if doing "all chapters..." recordings?

I have another really "pie in the sky" item for SA:

How about some basic editing features. I really don't want much. Basically, I just want to be able to delete sections of programs I don't want to keep any longer to free up space. For example, I may have a 2 hour concert recorded in hi-def, but I've watched the first hour. Sure could use that space. You would only need to pause the recording and select from "erase up to here" or "erase from here to end."

Also, maybe an "archive" feature that takes a selected program, compresses it to a degree selected in a menu by the user depending on space needs and quality preferences, and stores it in a sub-category (folder) "Archive."

Just a couple of ideas...

No, you are stuck. If you don't watch another recording in between, it will remember where you were (tune to the DVR channel and press Play), but that's it for now. The 8300 is only a glorified digital VCR and while improvements are being made or are in the works, it's taking a very long time. :(

just fyi "passport" remembers where you've been on multiple shows

How's that neilk, does it make a list of where you left for each recording or does it let you mark the spot?

How's that neilk, does it make a list of where you left for each recording or does it let you mark the spot?

no, but when you return to any show recorded it just starts at the place you left off. and you dont have to tune to 1,000 you just go to the dvr list. (NYC time warner cable passport)

Wow, that's cool, that's even logical. But I don't understand something, is the Passport software propietary of Time Warner applied to 8300HD?

Wow, that's cool, that's even logical. But I don't understand something, is the Passport software propietary of Time Warner applied to 8300HD?

no infact some time warner systems seem to use sara. and anyway you cant pick. i have cablevision on long island and tw in new york. passport does not let you use a external drive yet.

just fyi "passport" remembers where you've been on multiple shows
Yes, that's true, but this is a SARA thread and we have no choice in the matter. :)

The day is coming when both SARA and Passport will be OBE, and the sooner, the better, if you ask me.

Wow, that's cool, that's even logical. But I don't understand something, is the Passport software propietary of Time Warner applied to 8300HD?Passport is developed and sold by Aptiv which was spun off from Pioneer (formerly Pioneer Digital Pioneer Digital Technologies, Inc.):
http://www.aptivdigital.com/

They will happily sell Passport to anyone who wants it.

Passport can run on Scientific Atlanta boxes, Motorola boxes, Pace boxes, and Pioneer boxes (although Pioneer got out of the STB business) ... DVR boxes (Passport Echo), non-DVR boxes ...

Cable boxes are designed so third parties can write apps (third pary guides, DVR software, VOD software, whatever) on top of them. Passport is just one example.

However, the specific version of Passport you need depends on the CA system in use, the boxes, it requires stuff on the head-end, etc so ... your cable company decides whether or not to buy/deploy Passport, not you.

Something weird- this Wednesday Survivor and CSI:NY were supposed to record. My wife checked "Scheduled Recordings" and definitely saw Survivor listed. She is pretty sure that she saw the recording light on at the right time. But later that night neither show was listed in "Recorded Programs". We know CSI:NY was on, because it got recorded on one of our ReplayTVs (no big deal, it was a rerun). We thought maybe Survivor didn't get recorded because it was a clip show and maybe the name was slightly different. Both shows are set up as record all episodes, all times, save all episodes.

Sunday morning, my wife turns on the 8300 and those 2 shows are now listed in the Recorded List, even though we have played lots of shows between Wed night and Sun morning, and they weren't listed before. They both show Wed 3/15 at the correct times, and both show a length of 1hr 0 min. But when we try to play them, the box tunes to "DVR playback channel" and nothing happens.

I guess we'll swap this 8300 out. The last Amazing Race only recorded 16 minutes (the only time this has happened to us). We also have a recurring problem where we can't pause or rewind live TV, and have to reboot the box.
Well, the latest Amazing Race only recorded 6 minutes, so we swapped out the box today. Hopefully the rest of our idiosyncrasies will go away, too.

Have folks experiencing this early ending problem done the Hard Reboot suggested earlier? I did and the problem has not re-occurred (knock on wood).

I've got another one for you guys. Last night, a show was showing as recording in the guide. I had not set it up to record. When I went to DVR menu, it did not show in recorded or scheduled recordings lists. I was recording another show. Of course, it would not let me watch anything other than the two that were recording. I tried to cancel the show I didd not set to record and the yellow button was not recognized. I thought, let's just wait until it ends and that should be that. Nope. It ended and never showed up in the recorded list. HOwever, the show immediately following it started to record. It too, did not show up in either DVR list. I rebooted and it cleared up.

The second thing that is happening lately is that I set a show to record (e.g. House). It records fine. The next week, House does not show up in sheduled list. I think maybe it is a repear. It is not. But another show in the same time slot on another day is scheduled to record. Very weird. Anyone see this before?

Thanks, Joe

I've got another one for you guys. Last night, a show was showing as recording in the guide. I had not set it up to record. When I went to DVR menu, it did not show in recorded or scheduled recordings lists. I was recording another show. Of course, it would not let me watch anything other than the two that were recording. I tried to cancel the show I didd not set to record and the yellow button was not recognized. I thought, let's just wait until it ends and that should be that. Nope. It ended and never showed up in the recorded list. HOwever, the show immediately following it started to record. It too, did not show up in either DVR list. I rebooted and it cleared up.

The second thing that is happening lately is that I set a show to record (e.g. House). It records fine. The next week, House does not show up in sheduled list. I think maybe it is a repear. It is not. But another show in the same time slot on another day is scheduled to record. Very weird. Anyone see this before?

Thanks, Joe

I have things like that happen all the time. This is sooooooooo buggy compared to TiVo.....I have had to re do some record alls periodically... :confused:

I can't stand the way it kicks you out of watching a recording when the show is over and you are only half way through it. They should be able to provide a FW update for this. This is the biggest PIA. Obviously, the engineers who designed this do not use this box because this is absolutely irritating. Now, I have to FF or REW to where I was previously. Even if I go to the end and REW, I can't look at the screen, because I don't want to ruin the show.

My TIVO does not do this and my wife refuses to watch the 8300HD if the show is still in progress. All I hear is, "Honey let's watch this on the TIVO (read 27" analog TV). I can't stand watching the HD Comcast Box in your Home Theater (92" Firehawk, 7210 PJ setup). Say what...?"

I can't stand the way it kicks you out of watching a recording when the show is over and you are only half way through it. They should be able to provide a FW update for this. This is the biggest PIA. Obviously, the engineers who designed this do not use this box because this is absolutely irritating. Now, I have to FF or REW to where I was previously. Even if I go to the end and REW, I can't look at the screen, because I don't want to ruin the show.

My TIVO does not do this and my wife refuses to watch the 8300HD if the show is still in progress. All I hear is, "Honey let's watch this on the TIVO (read 27" analog TV). I can't stand watching the HD Comcast Box in your Home Theater (92" Firehawk, 7210 PJ setup). Say what...?"

That does not happen to me. Don't know why. I always wait until at least half way into a show so that we can jump past commercials. I frequently am still watching when it ends and see no impact.

bkapezis - Thanks. I check the weeks recording every Sunday evening.

Does anyone else have this problem? To resolve this would ave me a lot of headaches with the WAF.

That does not happen to me. Don't know why. I always wait until at least half way into a show so that we can jump past commercials. I frequently am still watching when it ends and see no impact.

bkapezis - Thanks. I check the weeks recording every Sunday evening.


Should have done it this way...Sorry.

Does anyone else have the same problem as me? To solve this would help with the WAF.

Joe - Who is your provider? What SW revision are you operating under? I have had three units and they all had this same "feature."

I can't stand the way it kicks you out of watching a recording when the show is over and you are only half way through it. They should be able to provide a FW update for this.Supposedly they have ... SARA 1.88.x.x

Your cable company hasn't loaded it yet.

In addition to fixing the "drop to live" bug, 1.88.x.x also (supposedly) adds a fourth FF/RW speed, enables Firewire, adds Stop -> View from Beginning on recordings in progress, and a few other features / bug fixes I can't remember ...

However, it also (supposedly) introduces a few new bugs too. Cablevision seems to be one of the few companies that has widely deployed the software that fixes the "drop to live" bug ... although there seem to be a few others (field tests, new boxes, etc).

In the meantime, I usually do following to watch a 'recording in progress' with SARA versions with the "drop to live" bug:

1. Select recording as usual (select in list, tune to channel, etc.)
2. Press Stop
3. Select 'Stop and Save'
4. Press the Record button
5. [A] to Accept the recording (make any changes you want)
6. Press Pause (only needed if the recording will still be 'in progress' when done watching what you just saved)
7. Press List, play / watch the saved recording ('Part 1')
8. When done with 'Part 1', Play 'Part 2'. If it's done recording ... select it from the List and play it as usual. If it's not done recording yet ... this is where things get a little tricky. Sometimes selecting in the List will take me to 'Live' ... sometimes it takes me to the 'Pause' point above. I've had better luck with manually typing in the channel number (or hitting 'Last'). Play around and see what (if anything) works with your firmware version to get you directly back to the 'Pause' point.
9. Finish watching the show.

Note: if 'Part 2' is still 'in progress' when you start watching ... and it ends while you are still watching ... you will NOT be dropped out when it stops recording. Recordings started by manually hitting the 'Record' button do not exhibit this annoying behavior ... they act like they should.

Ok, the above sounds like a pain ... but it's very quick / easy and works well once you get used to it (with the exception of missing one or two seconds of the show as 'Part 2' starts to record, and the possibility of seeing a 'spoiler' in that brief time you are 'live' ... and of course requiring more button pushes than you'd want).

My service is from Cablevision - Woodbury. It is SARA, but I am not sure of version. I'll check if I get a chance.

Many of the Cablevision systems have a new version of SARA which has fixed the "kick out" problem, but then it was reported that it has other (new) problems. Perhaps that is your issue with the inability to cancel a 2nd recording. Other cable systems have not depolyed the Cablevision version. The probably don't want to get into a new set of problems.

I got CV with Sara 1.88??. To begin with firewire works with JVC4k but not really, as it will freeze on HD programs within seconds. It actually seems to work with SD programs, yeah, like I really care about SD. As far as new bugs are concerned, I haven't seen any major new ones in normal use. To be honest I actually like SA8300HD, it does what it should except for that firewire.

Have folks experiencing this early ending problem done the Hard Reboot suggested earlier? I did and the problem has not re-occurred (knock on wood).
Dave-

I did a hard reboot between my 2 occurrences of the problem. It also did not help my issues with pausing and rewinding. <edit>(Actually either reboot fixed the pause and rewind problems temporarily, but they came back within a couple of days.)

Tonight, on the new box, the first Earl didn't record. I've got it in to record all eps, all times, save all. The second one recorded. First one was a repeat, but the setting is all eps, all times, so it should have recorded. The Loop, which was on at the same time as the fist Earl, did get recorded. ???

This is a reminder to check your TWC DVR on April 2, 2006 (daylight savings). Look at the scheduled recordings to make sure it did not delete any of them or change the times.

I reported the problem to TWC in October 2005 (the last daylight savings) when it changed every one of my scheduled recordings by setting them to record an hour earlier.

I sent an email to Albany TWC earlier in the week asking if they fixed the problem I made them aware of back in October 2005. Here's their reply:

Mark,
Unfortunately,as of this time we still do not have a definite resolution for this problem. The easiest way to correct the issue is to delete the scheduled recordings and reset them with the new time,after daylight savings time occurs. Please contact us if you have any further questions about this.

Please let us know if we can be of any additional assistance. Thank you for being a Time Warner Cable customer.
------
Tracey
Customer Care Team
Time Warner Cable
Albany Division
1021 Highbridge Rd
Schenectady, NY 12303
1-866-321-2225


Great customer service! Not! :mad:

AlbanyHDTV,
Your Cableco cannot give you a fix that he has not received from Scientific Atlanta. There is/was a Beta Test version of software which was fixed for DST but I won;t know whether the version I have now is OK until Sunday the 2nd.

TerryB

Sorry if this has already been asked. My box started jumping to the channel it is starting to record if i am watching a different channel. It isn't because I am recording 2 channels at once. It does it even if I am watching a recorded show. I am on Charter cable and assume I have SA firmware. Any help would be appreciated. Could it be because I added External hard drive? SA firmware is 1.87.32.1

Same thing with 1.87.16.1, no external drive. It doesn't do it all the time and I haven't been able to find a pattern yet. I'm avoiding a hard reboot at the moment in the hopes that I can find a pattern, if there is one. This just started recently and there have been no software updates, etc. See the first post in this thread and try a hard reboot to see if that clears things up for you.

There are times I get a lot of stuttering (for lack of a better term) where the picture blocks out and I lose the audio - getting a digital squeal.

From checking the signal levels from the 8300's diagnostic pages the signal looks like its adequate for the box, so I'm not sure whats causing the problem.

Invasion, which I recorded last night (3/15) had a ton of breakup/squealing throughout - really gets annoying after awhile since it distracts from the enjoyment of the show.

Any ideas if there is anything I can do to try and determine the source of the problem? I guess I don't know if I've got a cable problem, a DVR problem, a intermittent signal issue, or if its the local affiliates or what...

I had exactly the same problem. My levels were -4 and with no splitter between the wall and my box. I exchanged the unit for what appeared to be a brand new one (or new refurbished...) and the problem went away completely. The old box was definitely used before I got it. I tried everything to erase and reformat the old box with no change.

Now I can record two channels and watch a third with no blocking at all. Before I couldn't record one channel and watch another without blocking.

If you can, I would exchange your box with a new one before you go to a lot of troubleshooting hassle. Just tell them you checked your levels and reformatted the drive with no improvement, and ask for a new box.

Good luck!

This is a reminder to check your TWC DVR on April 2, 2006 (daylight savings). Look at the scheduled recordings to make sure it did not delete any of them or change the times.

<< SNIP >>


I already see potential problems with the change to daylight savings time. In the Scheduled Recordings, it lists Grey's Anatomy set to record on Sun 4/2 at 9:00-10:00pm (Central Time), but it lists Crossing Jordan set to record on Sun 4/2 at 10:00-11:00pm (Central Time). Both shows air at the same time. When I look at the Program Guide, it shows both programs airing at 9:00pm (Central Time), but Crossing Jordan is not highlighted while Grey's Anatomy is highlighted. The two shows after Crossing Jordan are highlighted, note they are half hour shows and were not scheduled to be recorded. Both Crossing Jordan and Grey's Anatomy are scheduled to record all first-run episodes. Also, some of the other shows have the wrong time.

Houston Time Warner Cable
8300HD
SARA 1.87.16.a104

Same thing with 1.87.16.1, no external drive. It doesn't do it all the time and I haven't been able to find a pattern yet. I'm avoiding a hard reboot at the moment......Never did find a pattern, but once again a hard reboot resolved the issue, for now anyway.

Albany, NY TW has the new 1.88.17.1 Sara Software...


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7413016&&#post7413016

Yes and I noticed that the fast forward function is not as smooth as before.

Remember to check your record schedule and make sure the record highlight is not showing an hour too late. You may have to delete the scheduled item and reselect the proper program.

TerryB

Someone had asked about extending a currently recording programs end time. I did the ususal and gave them the quick steps and referred them to the start of this thread :) . They got back to me and noted that there is no explanation on how to extend a current recording in progress. I thought this was common knowledge, but apparently it's not...

Dave, and others, here you go...

You can extend a currently recording in progress with the following method.
Press LIST to go to the DVR section of recorded programs, then select the SCHEDULED RECORDINGS option A (note: this is not the first list of available recordings, but instead, your current and future recordings). Find your currently recording program (it will be RED). Press SELECT to access the options. Change the ending time to whatever it is needed to fit your estimated program length. Press A to accept changes and you are done.

vegggas

You can extend a currently recording in progress with the following method.
Press LIST to go to the DVR section of recorded programs, then select the SCHEDULED RECORDINGS option A (note: this is not the first list of available recordings, but instead, your current and future recordings). Find your currently recording program (it will be RED). Press SELECT to access the options. Change the ending time to whatever it is needed to fit your estimated program length. Press A to accept changes and you are done.vegggas

Does this change affect ALL future scheduled programming or just the current recording in progress.

I think you'll find it only affects one-time, in-progress, and of course, manual recordings. I believe I've tried this in the past for programs like ER (grrrr), DH, Lost, etc., but the time was always reset for the next scheduled recording. This actually turned out to be a good thing since Lost, in particularly, varies it's end time from 1-3 minutes. I do use this tip every week to record Supernatural and cut the end time by 1 minute so as not to interfere with the beginnng of ER and all I miss are the credits/previews. I also record CSI and always have a 3-recording conflict because of ER (grrrr again).

Edit: I forgot to mention I added this subject to the first post. :)

Thanks Dave and Veggas. I've been needing that one.

By the way, had no problem with my timers today.

The only problems I had were some timeslot recordings for cable networks where the programs are now 1 hour earlier. I don't consider this a problem of the 8300 or DST, but some folks think the 8300 should "know" which program I "was" recording and automatically adjust the time. The problem with this is the 8300 has no way to know if I just set it up for the correct slot or if it's an old schedule that was there before DST slots started showing up in the IPG. Twice a year I can deal with it.

I noticed recently that when there are 2 recordings at once going on, when I try to see some other channel a message pops giving options to see only those recordings or cancel any of them. Can't seem to access anything else, except by watching a recorded program and then changing channel.

Is there a better way to do this?

There are only 2 tuners, so with 2 recordings in progress, that's it. Your only alternative is to watch either of these 2 channels or a previously recorded program.

Not true, as I explained there's a trick. In the situation described, if you start a recorded program, you can then tune a different channel without the message popping up.

The 8300HD has supposedly 2 tuners, but you can record 2 programs at the same time and watch a third channel or recording. I think there's actually 3 tuners, otherwise, I don't know how they do it. It's quite cool actually.

You could split your cable and run one directly into you TV's tuner. Then you could watch an unscrambled channel there while the DVR records two.

DoubleDaz,
The 1.88 firmware is able to fix the DST shift. I guess you would be screwed if you took the DST shift into accound when you set a manual timed recording in anticipation of the one hour move earlier by DST.

I forgot that the problem is visible on the IPG NOT on the scheduled program list. The red highlight shows at where the program/timeslot used to be.


TerryB

Not true, as I explained there's a trick. In the situation described, if you start a recorded program, you can then tune a different channel without the message popping up.

The 8300HD has supposedly 2 tuners, but you can record 2 programs at the same time and watch a third channel or recording. I think there's actually 3 tuners, otherwise, I don't know how they do it. It's quite cool actually.

If memory serves me correctly (which it often does not), you can record two programs and watch a third RECORDED program. The unit has two tuners, so in effect, you are using both for recording, and watching the third from the hard drive.

To those with more knowledge (or a better memory), is this correct?

Not true, as I explained there's a trick. In the situation described, if you start a recorded program, you can then tune a different channel without the message popping up.

The 8300HD has supposedly 2 tuners, but you can record 2 programs at the same time and watch a third channel or recording. I think there's actually 3 tuners, otherwise, I don't know how they do it. It's quite cool actually.

not correct

You can record two and watch a previous recording but not a third live program.