I think it's all Tribune's data anyway. I've seen a few different test IPG's for cable co's, but it's all in the way the data is formatted and used on-screen, and how much is held in memory. The IPG is nothing more than a graphical overlay (in the STB) with populated fields from the streamed data. If the data is in the stream, the Tivo could use it and format it anyway it wants with it's own graphic overlay, assuming the Tivo can access it via cable card. If it can't, then it has to get the data elsewhere. A third party developer could write a java app to display the data in various forms.

vegggas

Just so I get this straight, are you saying that the IPG data used by both Tivo and cableco's comes from a single company, Tribune? And that all Tivo does differently from other IPGs (like Gemstar/TV Guide) is display it differently and incorporate advanced search features, etc.?

Just so I get this straight, are you saying that the IPG data used by both Tivo and cableco's comes from a single company, Tribune? And that all Tivo does differently from other IPGs (like Gemstar/TV Guide) is display it differently and incorporate advanced search features, etc.?
That's my guess. I don't know for sure. SA was in trouble with Gemstar over the grid guide display at one time, but Cox just signed an agreement with them to supply an OCAP version at the end of this year or early next year. The Aptive IPG (passport) will also still be used, so it's not an exclusive deal. I'm not sure how many different DATA providers there are, but I think there are only two or three and it's sourced out to others.

vegggas

I'm in NE Wisconsin, TW Sara 1.87.16.a109. Had 8300HD 3 months

I swear I used to have a choice to 'start from beginning' when going to LIST and playing the program currently recording. Now it just switches to live and there's no way to get to the beginning if you're more than an hour in unless, of course, you wait 'til the recording is finished. Is this normal and I'm hallucinating the 'start from beginning' thing or am I missing something?

You are not hallucinating, that's the way it is until you get 1.88.x.x or later version of SARA. Unless they temporarily released version 1.88.x.x and then pulled it, you shouldn't have had a Start From Beginning option when joining a recording in progress. That has been a major point of contention here for quite some time and folks get really frustrated knowing that some folks have the newer software and others don't. When you restart a recording that you stopped, there is a Start From Beginning option and I believe that is the only one.

Ah, poop, I guess you're right, I was probably remembering seeing 'start from beginning' when I restarted a program I was viewing previously.

I'm a TiVo refugee so I have unreasonable expectations. I'll have to remember this as I often like to time shift a Nascar race and zoom commercials that are 35% of the show. I'll have to remember to start no later than an hour after starting recording! Until an HD Tivo is available, that is.

Well, even though some folks like to call me an "apologist" :) for the 8300's lack of features, your expectations are not unreasonable, just not available yet for everyone with non-Tivo DVRs. The reasons are many and some of us agree to disagree on those, but version 1.88.x.x is starting to make the rounds beyond just Cablevision systems. The added Start From Beginning option makes a big difference for those who like to join recordngs in progress. You also no longer get Kicked Out To Live when the recording finishes and that was the bigger isssue for me. I didn't do a lot of this until recently for those reasons, but now I find I do it a lot more.

There is also an FF4 that really zooms through recordings. It is a tad too fast for commercial skipping, at least without a lot of practice, but will zip through 2 hours in under 60 seconds.

I'm a TiVo refugee so I have unreasonable expectations.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect a little user friendliness from any devise and at this point the 8300HD with 1.87.xxx is about as bad as it gets. Some of the "features" of the 1.87.xxx software are quite infuriating. IMHO, what is unreasonable is the timeframe it is taking to get this software updated to fix these problems.

I'll have to remember this as I often like to time shift a Nascar race and zoom commercials that are 35% of the show. I'll have to remember to start no later than an hour after starting recording! Until an HD Tivo is available, that is.
I like to do this with football games. In fact, I have become so spoiled I find it difficult to watch a "live" game anymore because of the nonstop interruptions to the flow of the game. For the football games this is what I do. Go ahead and set a scheduled recording of the event ahead of time. Then shortly after it comes on tune to the scheduled recording, REW to a point of your choosing if you wish, hit the PAUSE button and tune to whatever else you want to watch in the mean time. Then, when you want to watch the recorded event just go back to it and it will be held at the point you paused it. It will hold there as long as the event is still recording. On the other hand, if you just hit the REC button while you watching the program and then hit PAUSE it will only buffer 1 hour of the recording and you have to stop and break it up into 2 recordings to get back to the start.

Is there a way to retrieve deleted programs? I inadvarently deleted a saved program yesterday. :(

Not that I've ever heard.

Is there a way to retrieve deleted programs? I inadvarently deleted a saved program yesterday. :(Nope, sorry. Once it's gone, it's gone...

Just because an application has Tivo features, does not mean that it will allow for content distribution or hacking of features. In fact many users may feel that the S3 features are being reduced because they are probably not as hackable as before.

It's possible, but I'm guessing not likely. Remember, TiVo's already had to deal with card-based decrypt before (DirecTiVo), so they've already made the necessary adjustments to their software architecture to accomodate such external requirements.


I think it's all Tribune's data anyway. I've seen a few different test IPG's for cable co's, but it's all in the way the data is formatted and used on-screen, and how much is held in memory. The IPG is nothing more than a graphical overlay (in the STB) with populated fields from the streamed data. If the data is in the stream, the Tivo could use it and format it anyway it wants with it's own graphic overlay, assuming the Tivo can access it via cable card. If it can't, then it has to get the data elsewhere. A third party developer could write a java app to display the data in various forms.

Tribune's surely a major player in the guide data realm, but are they the only one ? I don't know, just asking. Certainly, TiVo uses Tribune's data, and I believe I've read here or elsewhere that they "massage" or add to the data a bit in order to provide some of their features. TiVo distributes the guide data to it's boxes via various means, in-band (DirecTV) and out-of-band (stand alone boxes). Shouldn't have anything to do with CableCard.


That's my guess. I don't know for sure. SA was in trouble with Gemstar over the grid guide display at one time, but Cox just signed an agreement with them to supply an OCAP version at the end of this year or early next year. The Aptive IPG (passport) will also still be used, so it's not an exclusive deal. I'm not sure how many different DATA providers there are, but I think there are only two or three and it's sourced out to others.

Gemstar's patent portfolio has nothing to do with guide data. It's all about the grid-based GUI to represent that data on screen. Anything that looks close to a grid (where times run down the lefthand side of the screen, and channels run left to right) falls under their patent. And they are very aggressive and sue anyone's ass who tries to use this type of GUI without their license. They're really evil about lawsuits. Seriously.

It is not unreasonable at all to expect a little user friendliness from any devise and at this point the 8300HD with 1.87.xxx is about as bad as it gets. Some of the "features" of the 1.87.xxx software are quite infuriating. IMHO, what is unreasonable is the timeframe it is taking to get this software updated to fix these problems.

Preach on, brother! Speak the truth! :)

Openness today does not mean there was similar openness yesterday. I've never said cableco's couldn't get Tivo, just that the price was too high and there was badblood between them and some cableco's, I don't know why you can't understand the distinction. Tivo has been in some financial trouble, and even though I believe their financials look better, they have more than enough reason now to work with anyone they can.

Well, it's kind of hard to discuss the point rationally with you, since all I present are the multiple facts from recent cable/D*/E*/TiVo procedings, and all you bring to the table are your assumptions and feelings. It's easy to have a rational discussion with vegggas, since he knows what he's talking about and can discuss it without certain pre-conceived notions entering the equation.

The only thing that's changed from TiVo's perspective is that they can no longer rely on DirecTV as a source of revenue in 3 years. They're still losing money every quarter, still continuing to innovate in the DVR/media space, and still looking to form partnerships with media outlets. Same as it ever was.


The other part of this is that now Tivo is making a compatible (cablecard) unit and with OCAP, etc., cableco's don't have to change everything to accomodate them. And, if I read some of this right, the software is really all we are talking about here and elsewhere, Tivo software running on Moto, SA, and other boxes.


edit : Forgot about Series3. Sorry!

In the 17 months that this box has been on the street, you are the first (and only) person I've ever seen claim to be able to use three tuners simultaneously. Forgive me for being incredulous.

April Fool's Day was Saturday, not today. What gives?

I'm sorry, I was not fooling anyone, I did the thing maybe 2 times; although it could've been what you said to someone else, that probably one recording had ended at that time. Maybe there was some bug, but apparently it's gone now.

I say this because my own trick is not working tonight. I'm recording one HD and one SD programs simultaneously and the DVR is not letting me change to live programming, no matter what I do.

So, this is impossible then? There's no way to get live programming when doing 2 recordings?

Wrong again. They're not "making" anything. Is the Tivo Series 3 not going to be made by Tivo and is it not going to be cablecard compatible?

So, this is impossible then? There's no way to get live programming when doing 2 recordings?I'd never say "impossible", but I know of no way to do it.

Is the Tivo Series 3 not going to be made by Tivo and is it not going to be cablecard compatible?

I edited my above reply as a correction. Obviously, the TiVo Series3 will be a CableCard box.

So, this is impossible then? There's no way to get live programming when doing 2 recordings?Since there are only two tuners in the box, it's safe to say it's impossible. When you're recording two programs, both tuners are in use, so your only options are to watch one of the two programs being recorded, or play back a previously-recorded program (since playback doesn't require a tuner).

I'm sorry, I was not fooling anyone, I did the thing maybe 2 times; although it could've been what you said to someone else, that probably one recording had ended at that time. Maybe there was some bug, but apparently it's gone now.

I say this because my own trick is not working tonight. I'm recording one HD and one SD programs simultaneously and the DVR is not letting me change to live programming, no matter what I do.

So, this is impossible then? There's no way to get live programming when doing 2 recordings?
Maybe you were watching one of the recordings and didn't realize that.

Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7593226&&#post7593226) to see my post about SA's Explorer 8300 DVB Set-Top with Modem featuring Euro-DOCSIS, High Definition Capability and DVR which is a three tuner DVR. It is for the European market and allows the capability of recording three programs and playing back a recorded program from the hard disk drive simultaneously. Also, you can record two programs will watching a different live program. The posts following it clarify how to use three tuners.

Then compare it to SA's Explorer 8300 DVR Set-Top that is a two tuner DVR used in the U.S. Click here (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7004920.pdf) for the product brief. It is for the U.S. market and allows the capability of recording two programs and playing back a recorded program from the hard disk drive simultaneously. Also, you can record one program will watching a different program.

I hope SA will release a three tuner DVR in the U.S.

RussB,

The one thing I noticed in the product briefs was the missing analog tuners in the DVB. I think once analog tuners don't have to be included in US models, all sorts of doors may open. From what I've heard all-digital STBs are quite a bit cheaper, though I don't really understand why. A tuner is a tuner, isn't it? :)

SA's new Explorer 8240 Digital-Only DVR has only two tuners. Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7478199&&#post7478199) to see my post that links to the Explorer 8240 Digital-Only DVR product brief.

I was recording 2 HD channels at the same time last night, too bad I didn't check if I can watch the third one, but doesn't SA8300HD have 2 digital and 2 analog tuners? I know it will pick analog channels for a fact, I know it has 2 digital tuners for sure as well, so in theory it should have 4 tuners?

Just so I get this straight, are you saying that the IPG data used by both Tivo and cableco's comes from a single company, Tribune? And that all Tivo does differently from other IPGs (like Gemstar/TV Guide) is display it differently and incorporate advanced search features, etc.?There are two major guide data suppliers ... Tribune and Gemstar. They provide the data to MVPDs (cable, DBS, etc), CE companies (Tivo, Sony, etc), websites, newspapers, etc. etc. etc.

And yes, basically, everyone gets their data from one of these two ... and then just does different stuff with it. Tivo and my cable plant both get data from Tribune. However, there are several cable plants that use Gemstar data.

The S3 will have to abide by content distribution already in place and need the decryption of the cable card for playback and decryption algorithims of native content. Any distribution will be done at SD resolution, just as upcoming plans roll out this summer with the cable / Sprint two-way distribution deal announced at the start of the year.There is absolutely nothing with CableLabs / OpenCable / CableCard that prevents HD content distribution.

Digital output (HD or SD) for protected content must use an 'approved' technology (DTCP, HDCP, WMDRM, etc. etc). But, you can certainly build a box that allows for transferring HD content to other boxes (via an approved method of course).

Comcast Cable - Cherry Hill, New Jersey.
SARA version: 1.87.23.1

I received and hooked up SA 8300HD this past week-end.

I recorded a movie and while scheduling the recording, I chose the retention period as "7 days". Now I want to extend that.

Is there anyway to extend the retention period of an existing recording?
I can't seem to find any options in the available recordings screen.

Thanks.

Is there anyway to extend the retention period of an existing recording?
I can't seem to find any options in the available recordings screen.Select the program in the list. Hit the Select key. One of the option is "Change Save Time".

Also see page 21:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdf

"Change the Save Time of a Single Recording

After recording a program, you can change how long the DVR saves the recording (...)"

I suspect the availability of the single recording save time change will vary by firmware revision and a lot of folks won't have that choice.

TerryB

No, I haven't heard that Adelphia/Buffalo upgraded yet. It's been on TW systems in Albany, Syracuse & Rochester. Maybe something else is going on. You don't need to reboot to get the new versions - "they" do it in the dark of night.

By the way, what is the latest word as to when TW takes over your system? You guys get a lot more HD channels than we do. I'm hoping that some sort of consolidation will bring your additional HD channels east.

I'm in Rome with Time Warner, which is (I think) same as Syracuse....I haven't seen any of these new options show up yet.

And speaking of HD channels I wish we could just get a FoxHD here...TW and the local Fox broadcaster have been feuding for over a year....no Superbowl in HD, no baseball, no 24, it really bites

Select the program in the list. Hit the Select key. One of the option is "Change Save Time".

Also see page 21:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdf

"Change the Save Time of a Single Recording

After recording a program, you can change how long the DVR saves the recording (...)"

I don't have the "Change Save Time" option. I think TerryB is right. That sucks!

Thank you both for looking into this.

I was recording 2 HD channels at the same time last night, too bad I didn't check if I can watch the third one, but doesn't SA8300HD have 2 digital and 2 analog tuners? I know it will pick analog channels for a fact, I know it has 2 digital tuners for sure as well, so in theory it should have 4 tuners?
Yes, the SA8300HD does have 2 digital and 2 analog tuners, but you can only use 2 tuners at the same time. SA describes the SA8300HD as a 2 tuner DVR to stop people from assuming that all 4 tuners can be used at the same time. See the product brief for the SA8300HD, the link to the product brief has already been posted.

I don't have the "Change Save Time" option. I think TerryB is right. That sucks!That's been available for me for every single SARA release I've seen from 1.82.x.x through my current 1.87.16.1. It's in the same menu as the "Copy To VCR" function ...

Anyway, odd that it wouldn't be available ... but ... if it's not there, it's not there. Sounds like a version-specific bug ... or something really flakey.

That's been available for me for every single SARA release I've seen from 1.82.x.x through my current 1.87.16.1. It's in the same menu as the "Copy To VCR" function ...

Anyway, odd that it wouldn't be available ... but ... if it's not there, it's not there. Sounds like a version-specific bug ... or something really flakey.

The only options I see are:

Copy to VCR
Erase
Play from begining
Play from current position
Skip to End

Is there a way to upgrade SARA version or is it something that the cable provider has to push from their side?

Thanks.

The only options I see are:

Copy to VCR
Erase
Play from begining
Play from current position
Skip to EndThose are the options that show up if you choose the most-recently viewed recording. Ie, if you play "Show X" ... as long as you don't watch another recording ... "Show X" will show those options. It's the same as the options when you hit "Stop" when watching a recording.

However, if you pick (but don't play) another recording ... let's say "Show Y" ... you should get the following options:

Play "Show Y"
Block "Show Y"
Erase
Change Save Time
Copy To VCR

Of course, if you play "Show Y" ... then you'll get those options for "Show X" (but not "Show Y"). So, you can't change the Save Time of the most-recently viewed recording ... but you can change the save-time of any other recording.

Play from begining / Play from current position are key ... those menu items do NOT show up on the same menu as "Change Save Time" on any version of SARA I've seen ...

That's how SARA on my box works ... 1.87.16.1 ... of course as noted in this thread ... YMMV.Is there a way to upgrade SARA version or is it something that the cable provider has to push from their side?Sorry ... Cable provider has to push it from their side.

dt_dc is correct in his explanation, and it has been there for a long time in SARA, if not since the DVR was originally released. The key is that you can't change the save time of a currently viewed/queued program.

dt_dc, in my previous post about content distribution, I was inferring that there will be no difference in content distribution as there is now. A "Tivo" box or "Tivo" software app won't allow anything different than what is currently basically offered. You still won't be able to hack the drive and copy or stream content to a PC, and only content protected mechanisms will allow for distribution. Everything SD will be distributed by the end of summer for most cable systems, via Sprint and other patnerships.

vegggas

Those are the options that show up if you choose the most-recently viewed recording. Ie, if you play "Show X" ... as long as you don't watch another recording ... "Show X" will show those options. It's the same as the options when you hit "Stop" when watching a recording.

However, if you pick (but don't play) another recording ... let's say "Show Y" ... you should get the following options:

Play "Show Y"
Block "Show Y"
Erase
Change Save Time
Copy To VCR

Of course, if you play "Show Y" ... then you'll get those options for "Show X" (but not "Show Y"). So, you can't change the Save Time of the most-recently viewed recording ... but you can change the save-time of any other recording.

Play from begining / Play from current position are key ... those menu items do NOT show up on the same menu as "Change Save Time" on any version of SARA I've seen ...

That's how SARA on my box works ... 1.87.16.1 ... of course as noted in this thread ... YMMV.Sorry ... Cable provider has to push it from their side.

Thanks. I finally got it working. I recorded another movie and re-played that movie. This caused the newly recorded movie to be "current" playback item. After that, I went to first movie and was able to see the "Change Save Time" option.

Thank you all.

RussB,

The one thing I noticed in the product briefs was the missing analog tuners in the DVB. I think once analog tuners don't have to be included in US models, all sorts of doors may open. From what I've heard all-digital STBs are quite a bit cheaper, though I don't really understand why. A tuner is a tuner, isn't it? :)

Once the box is digital only, they no longer need to have the analog->digital encoder. The digitizing of two analog channels at once, even at the somewhat poor quality level, is likely one of the biggest CPU and cost hogs in the whole system.

Once it is digital only, it is just a matter of streaming a file to disk and playing it back.

This may indeed happen as more cable cos switch to digital simulcast.

xnappo

I'm still getting used to the 8300, but I wanted to know how long you can leave recorded shows on pause. I was watching Troy the other day, I paused the 8300, and turned off the TV. I left for a few hours, came back, turned on the TV and the credits were rolling. What happened? Does it only keep the video paused for a short time? Does using the TW remote to turn off the TV send a signal to the cable box to play?

I also have a problem with recording. I record the The Simpsons every night after the local news. I've set it to record at the same time slot, but the news sometimes runs late and cuts the end off. When I go to adjust the recording time, it gives me two choices, I can't remember, but it is something about recording the same time slot. When I save it, the time changes back. Is there a way around this?

Does it only keep the video paused for a short time?Yes. There is only a one-hour time-shift buffer. When the show has been paused for an hour, the buffer will be full, and it will start to play back. (It is essentially discarding the oldest information in the buffer to make room for the real-time programming still pouring in.)

Note that there is also a limit to how long you can pause playback of a previously-recorded program. This is not a buffer issue; rather, I think it's a screen-saver "feature". After about 15 or 20 minutes, playback will spontaneously resume.

I'll let someone else tackle your other question.

I also have a problem with recording. I record the The Simpsons every night after the local news. I've set it to record at the same time slot, but the news sometimes runs late and cuts the end off. When I go to adjust the recording time, it gives me two choices, I can't remember, but it is something about recording the same time slot. When I save it, the time changes back. Is there a way around this?Unfortunately you cannot manually extend the time of a repeat recording. The alternative is to setup a repeat recording of the following show. Hopefully it will be the same every night, otherwise you may have to set multiple shows. It wastes a bit of space, but it can be deleted if you find that your show started on time.

Unfortunately you cannot manually extend the time of a repeat recording. The alternative is to setup a repeat recording of the following show. Hopefully it will be the same every night, otherwise you may have to set multiple shows. It wastes a bit of space, but it can be deleted if you find that your show started on time.

The other option is to use the manual recording feature. Hit 'LIST' then 'B' for 'Preferences' then scroll down to 'Schedule a New Manual Recording'. You can then setup a time and repeat schedule.

Only disadvantage is that these show up as 'Manual Recording' in the list, but if you only do the Simpsons you will know what that is...

xnappo

Once the box is digital only, they no longer need to have the analog->digital encoder.Good point, I was hung up on tuners and didn't think of the conversion process and it's cost/impact. :)

Is there any way to cancel one scheduled recording of a show rather than having to cancel them all? I have a few shows set to record first run only but repeats often get scheduled in anyway, and if I try to eliminate the one scheduled in error the it wants to delete all of them. Lame. :mad:

It does seem lame. Not sure why they don't let you cancel individual recordings once they are in the schedule, but I suppose it's got something to do with the way they wait until the last minute to actually decide whether or not to record a given show. If you schedule a New Episodes recording, it will highlight the next broadcast in the IPG, even if it's a rerun, until the show actually begins. That's when it checks the First Run flag and decides to record or not. I assume that's to take into account last minute changes to the IPG. However, if you do cancel all, you can go right back into the IPG and reschedule the New Episodes recording.

You are very lucky, then; that hasn't been my experience. I'd put the probability of getting all my recordings in a given week at 98% for my ReplayTVs and 75% for the 8300. Thank goodness for bit torrent, or I'd have to watch some shows in SD....
Sean
Busy night for the 8300 tonight- Alias and The Amazing Race at 7, Lost at 8, CSI:NY and Invasion at 9. Scheduled Recordings shows them all. At 8:30 I notice the recording light is not on- Recorded Programs shows Alias and the Amazing Race, Scheduled Recordings shows Lost on 5/10 from 8:00-9:05PM, but Lost is not recording.

The DVR is about as full as it ever gets, but it's just 7 recordings, 32% space used. Checking the guide, Invasion and CSI:NY are red, Lost is not.

At 9, CSI:NY does not start up, so I go to the guide and hit record. The DVR tells me that it can't record 3 things at once: Lost, CSI:NY and CSI:NY. I cancel, and it starts recording CSI:NY and the last 5 minutes of Lost.

Alias, Lost and Invasion are all on ABC back-to-back. Amazing Race and CSI:NY are both on CBS. No other recordings scheduled for tonight. Only 2 channels to record, 2 tuners, should be no problem.

Not surprising, but still aggravating. Of course the Replay is backing up the 8300, but in SD, so now I have to decide if I want to wait another couple of hours to get the torrent in HD. All I can say is thank goodness Scientific Atlanta doesn't make pacemakers or anti-lock brake systems.

Sean

Just out of curiosity, what recording option are you using, This Timeslot or New Episodes?

BTW, that's a typical night for me. I hate to rub it in, but still no problems with Cox Cable and my 8300 here in the Valley of The Sun. Twice in over a year and a half I've run into a problem where it said I couldn't record a show yet there were only 2 shows listed. A reboot cleared that up both times.

Just out of curiosity, what recording option are you using, This Timeslot or New Episodes?
Dave-

All of these shows are set up Record: All Episodes, all times; Save: All Episodes.

Sean

Sean, thanks. Like I said, I was just curious. I can't see how that would mess anything up though with only 2 channels involved. Of course, those options leave the door open for conflicts with programs with moving timeslots.

Having been a programmer, I find it intriguing that the same boxes running the same software on the same cable system does not "appear" to do the same thing. I guess you could be the only one recording those programs using those options. If that's not the case though, then others should have the same problem. Unfortunately, it seems like that is NOT the case or more people would be complaining.

Busy night for the 8300 tonight- Alias and The Amazing Race at 7, Lost at 8, CSI:NY and Invasion at 9. Scheduled Recordings shows them all. At 8:30 I notice the recording light is not on- Recorded Programs shows Alias and the Amazing Race, Scheduled Recordings shows Lost on 5/10 from 8:00-9:05PM, but Lost is not recording.

The DVR is about as full as it ever gets, but it's just 7 recordings, 32% space used. Checking the guide, Invasion and CSI:NY are red, Lost is not.

At 9, CSI:NY does not start up, so I go to the guide and hit record. The DVR tells me that it can't record 3 things at once: Lost, CSI:NY and CSI:NY. I cancel, and it starts recording CSI:NY and the last 5 minutes of Lost.

Alias, Lost and Invasion are all on ABC back-to-back. Amazing Race and CSI:NY are both on CBS. No other recordings scheduled for tonight. Only 2 channels to record, 2 tuners, should be no problem.

Not surprising, but still aggravating. Of course the Replay is backing up the 8300, but in SD, so now I have to decide if I want to wait another couple of hours to get the torrent in HD. All I can say is thank goodness Scientific Atlanta doesn't make pacemakers or anti-lock brake systems.

Sean
I highlighted the problem in RED. Somehow, by using Record: All Episodes, all times; Save: All Episodes, duplicates were set. This could have happened if there was a change in scheduled airings, and you went in again and highlighted the episodes again. Or if the "Future" scheduled recording was not highlighted and you went in and reselected it again. This creates multiple recordings of the same programming, thus maxing out the options and having the recordings fail.
Clear out scheduled recordings and then use "NEW" recodings for new shows. Since the season is over though, it may be too late, but still, clear out your recordings and try not to "Double dip" any recordings. Usually, any non-highlighted programming that is supposed to record, will record as the program starts. Trying to select it again, will create a duplicate recording.
I typically set up a "New Episodes" event for the entire season and then LEAVE IT ALONE until the end of the season. Tonight, and throughout the season, I've had two recordings at the same time, for the entire prime time viewing period among different channels. I also do the same on the 8000HD for the other network shows and premium programming. In essence, it's not uncommon or me to record 12 hours across two DVR's in a single night's primetime viewing period! [explanation needed: My wife and I work and sleep differing and sometimes erratic schedules. We watch different programming and keep the majority of it on the 8300 because of the SATA drive, but flip-flop DVR's for each others programming whenever we can catch up.]
The only failures have been due to network errors with the first run flag, such as last season's Americon Idol on a few episodes.

vegggas

I highlighted the problem in RED. Somehow, by using Record: All Episodes, all times; Save: All Episodes, duplicates were set. This could have happened if there was a change in scheduled airings, and you went in again and highlighted the episodes again. Or if the "Future" scheduled recording was not highlighted and you went in and reselected it again. This creates multiple recordings of the same programming, thus maxing out the options and having the recordings fail.
Clear out scheduled recordings and then use "NEW" recodings for new shows. Since the season is over though, it may be too late, but still, clear out your recordings and try not to "Double dip" any recordings. Usually, any non-highlighted programming that is supposed to record, will record as the program starts. Trying to select it again, will create a duplicate recording.
I typically set up a "New Episodes" event for the entire season and then LEAVE IT ALONE until the end of the season. Tonight, and throughout the season, I've had two recordings at the same time, for the entire prime time viewing period among different channels. I also do the same on the 8000HD for the other network shows and premium programming. In essence, it's not uncommon or me to record 12 hours across two DVR's in a single night's primetime viewing period! [explanation needed: My wife and I work and sleep differing and sometimes erratic schedules. We watch different programming and keep the majority of it on the 8300 because of the SATA drive, but flip-flop DVR's for each others programming whenever we can catch up.]
The only failures have been due to network errors with the first run flag, such as last season's Americon Idol on a few episodes.

vegggas
Vegggas-

I actually went to the guide at 9PM when the record light didn't come on and selected CSI:NY and hit record. That's when it told me it couldn't record 3 things at once. I think it thought it was recording Lost and CSI:NY, and I was telling it to record one more thing at the same time.

My wife looked at Scheduled Recordings earlier in the day to make sure everything was listed, and I looked at 8:30 when I noticed Lost wasn't being recorded, and only those 5 shows were set to record. I don't know what to say about the possiblity of there being hidden scheduled recordings. How does cleaning out my recordings help if the problem shows are not listed? Do I have to do some sort of hard reset to clear those out?

Note that we no longer even look at the guide to see if anything is going to record. We were fooled too many times before by seeing a show in red that did not record. I only mentioned that to give a more complete picture of what was going on.

If there was a 3-way conflict, why did NOTHING record? Why did it start recording both shows after I cancelled the error message that I caused by trying to record CSI:NY? I don't think either of those questions are answered by your explanation.

If there's a 3-way conflict, what is displayed in the Scheduled Recordings screen? ReplayTV logs conflicts so at least you can see why it didn't record a show. (Is event logging patented?)

Last Wed the same shows recorded fine. I believe tonight's problem was caused by a software bug that happens at random intervals. My wife and I are going to begin rebooting the box once a week. We already have to reboot about twice a month, since the transport buttons randomly stop working- we can't pause, rewind, etc. And this has happened on 2 brand new 8300HDs. I'm hopeful that clearing out memory once a week will help keep all the pointers valid.

I appreciate you and Dave helping to figure out what's going wrong.

Thanks-

Sean

The DVR is about as full as it ever gets, but it's just 7 recordings, 32% space used. Checking the guide, Invasion and CSI:NY are red, Lost is not.

At 9, CSI:NY does not start up, so I go to the guide and hit record. The DVR tells me that it can't record 3 things at once: Lost, CSI:NY and CSI:NY. I cancel, and it starts recording CSI:NY and the last 5 minutes of Lost.

Sean

Same thing happened to me and another person in Austin, TX. I had mine set up for record new episodes for all the shows you mentioned. I did not try to manually start CSI.

I suspect it somehow got messed up with the guide and the overlap of Lost to 9:05. Did anyone successfully record Lost, Invasion and CSI?

xnappo

Sean,

The 8300 does not display 3-way conflicts and nothing gets recorded, at least using SARA. I know Tivo uses a priority scheme to record 2 of the programs and I think Passport may too, but I'm not sure. As you've indicated, ReplayTV logs the conflicts so you can take care of them and, yes, that "could" be a patented feature. :)

Anyway, I'm convinced that something changed in the IPG at some point to confuse things. When you cancelled the "second" CSI, the 8300 fell back to the scheduled list just like it would after a power outage, etc., and started recording from there. That part of it is not surprising and works as designed.

I've been able to force a 3-way conflict by looking at TitanTV to see what is coming on next week and using the All Epsiodes/All Timeslots option to "mess" things up. That's how I know for sure nothing gets recorded until you delete one of the conflicts. I virtually quit using that option for that reason. I still use it for one of my wife's soaps because I know the schedule does not change and the "New Episode" indicator has been messed up in the IPG in the past.

vegggas' suggestion to use the "New Episodes" option is a correct one, but that's only because he knows there are problems with the other options and oftentimes, as you've noted, you cannot "see" the conflict even though it exists. You should be able to use the options you have set, but experience says that sooner or later you are going to miss some recordings.

FWIW, software bugs do not happen randomly. Software is inherently dumb. Data passes through the coding instruction by instruction in exactly the same way every time. Something in the system has to be different and I generally point to the IPG data because it's the only thing that makes sense and gets updated at least once a day. The Billionaire thing I mention was not visible when looking at the IPG title. Only when looking at the added "Info", were we able to see the "compete" title had changed from week to week. Rogers Cable up in Canada was having a problem where the HD indicator would show up as part of the title sometimes and that threw off the recording schedule. This also was not readily visible without looking further.

I don't think you're ever going to pinpoint exactly what happened, but it nevers hurts to keep on trying. :)

Sean,

The 8300 does not display 3-way conflicts and nothing gets recorded, at least using SARA. ...

DoubleDAZ - I have to respectfully disagree with this comment.

A few days ago I had my SARA SA83000HD (Comcast system) inform me that I had three recordings at the same time (emidiately after adding a recording) and had a "X" next to a name (all 3 programs were listed) that I could move to any of the three. This then picked the one program not to have recorded. This was all manual though and very basic in the UI (Like the rest of the SA83000HD GUI).

NEVERMIND - I have had this conflict feature only come up when "picking" a show to record. I do not recall if it was tested under using the ALL Episodes options.

I virtually quit using that option for that reason. I still use it for one of my wife's soaps because I know the schedule does not change and the "New Episode" indicator has been messed up in the IPG in the past.Same here ...

I use "All Episodes" recordings for a few things durring the day that don't change (and I don't care about that much) ... kid's shows, PTI, nightly news, etc. However, for prime-time shows that I really care about (Lost, etc) I always use one-time "Single Episode" recordings.

Cox Fairfax SARA 1.87.16.1

Sean,
I didn't catch that part about you just trying to add the third recording and forcing the conflict - ooops, I should try sleeping more often :o
It sounds like it could have been a memory issue as you mentioned. Have you tried using timers to turn off the STB every day? I turn mine off at night (timer-off), and have them turn back on (timer-on:channel & Power-on:channel) to a music channel (not bufferable or recordable), so that there is no buffering being done and the box "rests" until I use it.
Dave's comments about the software being dumb and the IPG data causing problems seem like the most relevant issue. This is where most of the changes are made and the best chance for problems. If your data carriers (esp forward [FDC]) are on the hairy edge of signal strength or less than -7dB, it's also possible that the guide data may have been corrupted enough to cause problems.

vegggas

I'm still working on this one for specifics, so you guys can help.
To defrag the drive:
1) Set the DVR's MAIN channel, and PIP channel to non-bufferable channels, such as a music channel - this way the drive is not being used.
2) Wait a few moments to verify that the hard disk activity stops (listen).
3) Press power on the front of the STB to turn off the unit.
4) Wait for it...
5) the drive should start defragging after a few minutes of inactivity.

Not sure what exactly it's doing, but it sounds like a defrag type of activity. Once I get it set and working with the exact steps, I will start using timers to do the same thing, by tuning the channels, then turning off, etc.

Give me feedback!

vegggas

Beaker1024,

Yes, the 8300 will tell you there is a conflict WHEN you are trying to schedule a 3rd recording. However, it will not tell you when there is a conflict that comes up randomly and that is what I am talking about. However, since we posted, I've done some checking with version 1.88.11.2 of SARA and I've found that things seem to have changed some.

Here is the scenario: On Tuesday nights I have "New Episode" recordings scheduled for The Unit, House, and Boston Legal, among others. Usually, The Unit and House are on at 8:00 and Boston Legal is on at 9:00 (MST), so there are no conflicts. However, next Tuesday, The Unit has back to back new episodes at 8:00 and 9:00, and Boston Legal has a 2-hour new episode starting at 8:00. This means I end up with 3 recordings (the first episode of The Unit, House, and the first hour of Boston Legal) scheduled to record at the same time.

Well, guess what? Prior to this version of SARA, all 3 would have been flagged for recording in the IPG, but nothing would have gotten recorded. I know this for a fact based on my previous tests. However, I just checked the IPG for next Tuesday and both episodes of The Unit are flagged, as is House, but Boston Legal is not.

This means one of 2 things; either they added a priority scheme of some sort to cope with these conflicts or I inadvertently deleted the scheduled recording for Boston Legal (which I doubt). Unless someone else with 1.88.x.x can confirm what I am seeing, I guess I'll have to dig through TitanTV to set up another test. :(

vegggas,

I turn my 8300 off every night when I go to bed. Is using the timers any different than using the Power button?

However, since we posted, I've done some checking with version 1.88.11.2 of SARA and I've found that things seem to have changed some.Just curious ...

1) You're on Cox (AZ) right?
2) When did you get upgraded to 1.88.11.2?

No particular reason ;)

Cox Fairfax SARA 1.87.16.1

dt_dc, long story, see my PM. Cox-AZ has not yet upgraded to 1.88.11.2.

Give me feedback!I will send mine PM because I have PASSPORT, and do not want to start any confusion here.

v/r,
C-F

any confusion here.Gee, that will be a first. :D :) :D

BTW. If that procedure works, wouldn't it defrag every night if I tuned to a music channel before turning it off and going to bed?

Sean,
It sounds like it could have been a memory issue as you mentioned.
[...]
Dave's comments about the software being dumb and the IPG data causing problems seem like the most relevant issue. This is where most of the changes are made and the best chance for problems. If your data carriers (esp forward [FDC]) are on the hairy edge of signal strength or less than -7dB, it's also possible that the guide data may have been corrupted enough to cause problems.
vegggas

Both the memory issue and signal strength issue can be ruled out since as I mentioned myself and another person in Austin also saw this(same exact programs). My money is on the times being wrong for the 9pm overlap of Lost and the start of Invasion with CSI as the third recording. I wish I had looked more carefully at the start and end times last night - but I didn't.

xnappo

I suspect it somehow got messed up with the guide and the overlap of Lost to 9:05. Did anyone successfully record Lost, Invasion and CSI?
I did and they were based on "New Episode" recordings I've had scheduled for some time, since at least January (I clean things out if they are not going to be on for a while, like the month of December and summer). In fact, I watched the Lost recording while the others were recording. I deleted Lost this morning, but CSI and Invasion are still there for viewing after a lunch date.

I also believe something in the IPG was messed up, but there is often no way to tell after the fact and I'm still not convinced we can actually see all the data being used to determine recordings. :(

I did and they were based on "New Episode" recordings I've had scheduled for some time, since at least January (I clean things out if they are not going to be on for a while, like the month of December and summer). In fact, I watched the Lost recording while the others were recording. I deleted Lost this morning, but CSI and Invasion are still there for viewing after a lunch date.

Interesting... Of course your provider could be using different guide data... You are on Cox right? I am on TWC. Also I was on 1.87 until 2am last night - finally got 1.88. I think the firmware upgrade coinciding with my first 'new episodes' issue was a coincidence.

xnappo

veggas,

FYI, here in Houston, all the music channels are bufferable. I've "re-wound" music a number of times for my 2 year old daughter.

Also a quick question about the "this time slot" selection. If a show is on at the same time, multiple days, will this record every day, or only the one I select. For instance, say this evening I select a news broadcast that airs daily at 9pm and tell it to record "in this time slot". Will it record all days at this same time, or only on Thursdays at this time?

The reason I ask is because Soprano's airs on Sundays and Wednesdays at the same time. I only want to record the Sunday version but I don't want to have to set it up every week and I don't trust the "new episodes" option. However, I can't use the "all episodes" option because of a 3-way recording conflict on Wednesdays.

Phew...I hope that all makes sense.

Russell

Oh yeah, I forgot,

My 8300 was canibalizing Sopranos for some reason. They would show up in my recorded list for a couple days and then disappear. That's what prompted me to check all my settings and they were set to be saved until I delete.

<< SNIP >>

I also believe something in the IPG was messed up, but there is often no way to tell after the fact and I'm still not convinced we can actually see all the data being used to determine recordings. :(
I have Houston Time Warner Cable (SARA 1.87.16.a104) and the IPG does not indicate whether a show is a repeat or a new show (first-run). The first-run flag is in the data because the "New first-run episodes on this channel" menu option works.

Last night I tried programming for 2 slots of the same program, back to back. One was 8:00 to 8:30, the other was 8:30 to 10:00. Because I wanted to record the whole thing, I tried first to make the 8:00 slot to go up to 10:00, didn't accept it. Tried the same for the other slot and didn't accept.

I then tried each slot individually with 7:59 and 10:02 for safety, but only accepted 7:59 and not 10:02, not even 10:01.

What happened here?

Same thing happened to me and another person in Austin, TX. I had mine set up for record new episodes for all the shows you mentioned. I did not try to manually start CSI.

I suspect it somehow got messed up with the guide and the overlap of Lost to 9:05. Did anyone successfully record Lost, Invasion and CSI?

xnappo

Up here in Connecticut (Comcast), I managed to only get half of Lost - it cut out at the 28 minute mark for some reason - but Alias before and Invasion after both recorded fine. It kind of ticks me off too because I was watching the Red Sox LAST Wednesday and somehow it said Lost was recording the whole hour, but then it mysteriously disappeared when the show ended... first I miss Ana Lucia being knocked off, now I miss Locke and Eko having dreams.... beginning to wonder if ABC HD is having issues as I normally see a lot of artifacting only on ABC HD...

PMJ

Interesting... Of course your provider could be using different guide data... You are on Cox right?Yes, I'm on Cox and AFAIK they get their IPG from Gemstar/TVGuide, though Tribune might actually supply the data. I always get confused about all that. :)

Also a quick question about the "this time slot" selection. If a show is on at the same time, multiple days, will this record every day, or only the one I select.All Episodes/This Timeslot will record it every day that it is on at the same time. I use this option to record my wife's soap because I found I can't trust the New indicator for this particular program.

The option I get actually reads "On this channel any day in this timeslot".

The other 2 options I get are "First run only on this channel" and "On this channel at any time".

I have Houston Time Warner Cable (SARA 1.87.16.a104) and the IPG does not indicate whether a show is a repeat or a new show (first-run). The first-run flag is in the data because the "New first-run episodes on this channel" menu option works.I didn't mean to imply that there is a First Run indicator that can be seen, there isn't here either. I was actually talking about other data, like the time and title.

I know from my tests a year or 2 ago that the title is displayed differently in different places of the IPG. Right now I am lookng at the IPG entry for Survivor tonight. In the grid, it says "Survivor:Panama -- Exile Island" (31 characters). However, in the box on the left above the grid, it says "Survivor: Pan.". Now, before you say that is just an abbreviation (and it probably is, limited to 30 charaters), the title for CSI is displayed as "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" (30 characters) in both places. "The NewsHour With Jim Leher" displays in the grid, but "News-Leher" displays in the box. This was the same with "The Rebel Billionaire" one week and "The Billionaire" the next in the box even though the grid showed the same thing both weeks.

The other interesting thing is that the display is different for the HD channel vs the analog channel, at least for CSI where the box for the HD channel displays "CSI: Crime Scn". That gives me 2 different titles for CSI in the box.

And, if that's not all, the title that is displayed when you select it for recording comes from the box, not the grid, but the title that is displayed in the list of scheduled recordings comes for the grid, not the box.

What this tells me is that the database contains at least 2 fields for the title and these fields are used at different places in the coding. That in itself is not strange to me because I used similar techniques when I was programming in the Air Force, but in this case, it seems somewhat inconsistent and that is just one of the things I believe is causing some of these recording conflicts and/or lost recordings.

What happened here? What programs were you trying to record and what else was scheduled to record during that time?

Sean,

<snip>

FWIW, software bugs do not happen randomly. Software is inherently dumb. Data passes through the coding instruction by instruction in exactly the same way every time. Something in the system has to be different and I generally point to the IPG data because it's the only thing that makes sense and gets updated at least once a day. The Billionaire thing I mention was not visible when looking at the IPG title. Only when looking at the added "Info", were we able to see the "compete" title had changed from week to week. Rogers Cable up in Canada was having a problem where the HD indicator would show up as part of the title sometimes and that threw off the recording schedule. This also was not readily visible without looking further.

I don't think you're ever going to pinpoint exactly what happened, but it nevers hurts to keep on trying. :)
Dave-

Sorry, bad wording- bugs aren't random, but their symptoms can appear to be due to the complexity of inputs. The IPG is one, but I would guess there are hundreds of variables in memory that are affected by the SW version and the shows recorded, buttons pressed, etc.

The Rebel Billionaire name fiasco affected ReplayTVs, too. But I don't think that's the issue here, since Scheduled Recordings showed everything was going to record.

I'd like to increase my odds of getting every show each week. Thanks for helping.

Sean

I just received my 8300 DVR today (5/8/06) from Cox in Gainesville, FL and noticed a big glitch.

If a recording is in progress and you select it from the DVR list, it does not play from the beginning, but plays from the current spot of the program. This is very annoying.

There isnt even an option to play from the beginning. This only appears for you if the program is stopped from recording or the show has finished recording

Anyone know a fix for this? Do we just have really crappy out-dated SARA software here

Thanks

Tony

Sean,
I didn't catch that part about you just trying to add the third recording and forcing the conflict - ooops, I should try sleeping more often :o
It sounds like it could have been a memory issue as you mentioned. Have you tried using timers to turn off the STB every day? I turn mine off at night (timer-off), and have them turn back on (timer-on:channel & Power-on:channel) to a music channel (not bufferable or recordable), so that there is no buffering being done and the box "rests" until I use it.
Dave's comments about the software being dumb and the IPG data causing problems seem like the most relevant issue. This is where most of the changes are made and the best chance for problems. If your data carriers (esp forward [FDC]) are on the hairy edge of signal strength or less than -7dB, it's also possible that the guide data may have been corrupted enough to cause problems.

vegggas
Veggas-

Mine has the auto-power off at 1:10AM, 3AM and 6AM (or something like that- when I'm up that late, I have to hit a key, even if I'm watching a recorded program), so it gets turned off every night. We also use a Harmony remote, so every time we turn off the TV the cable box gets turned off. Since "off" is not really off, I figure the weekly reset will do more for cleaning up the memory.

I'll check the FDC and see if it is reasonable.

Sean

Both the memory issue and signal strength issue can be ruled out since as I mentioned myself and another person in Austin also saw this(same exact programs). My money is on the times being wrong for the 9pm overlap of Lost and the start of Invasion with CSI as the third recording. I wish I had looked more carefully at the start and end times last night - but I didn't.

xnappo
Xnappo-

At 8:30 when I noticed that Lost wasn't recording, I checked the guide, and it showed Alias 7-8, Lost 8-9:05, Invasion 9:05-10. Amazing Race was 7-8, CSI:NY 9-10. Last Wed everything recorded correctly, but I don't think there was the 5 minute overlap. I'm pretty sure there has been a similar overlap in the past that was successfully recorded, but maybe not this exact situation.

Sean

Sean,

I agree. A lot of folks think all this is random, but in the world of programming, things have to meet certain critera for other things to happen and then it always happens the same way, for the most part. :)

I think you are right about memory variables, software versions, buttons pressed, and the other things you mentioned. I'm still convinced that there is more to the IPG than meets the eye, but we just don't have the tools to see it all. If this were a PC, we'd be able to dig into the IPG database and look at the data for ourselves. Perhaps then we could see that the data is corrupt causing things not to happen as desired.

I know button presses and other things can cause problems, but those can usually be duplicated to cause the same problem over and over. IPG erors are much more difficult to deal with because the data is only there for a short period of time and is often gone when problems are detected.

I don't know if you keep your schedule clean by deleting recordings for shows that are over or on Christmas hiatus, etc. I do, but I have no way of knowing if that really helps lessen problems. I delete The Sopranos, Deadwood, Dead Zone, Stargate, and others like that when their run ends for the year. I will also delete my season passes for primetime shows during the next couple of weeks when their runs end and I will put them all back in next season.

I now use the New Episode option for most of my recordings, but even before that I didn't miss recordings. I don't reboot unless I'm testing something or something weird happens, 2-3 times in over a year and a half. From what I understand, vegggas doesn't have many problems either. We both happen to have Cox service and perhaps the Cox IPG is more stable for some reason, I simply don't know.

The software used has been the same at times, so I doubt it's the software itself.

Cable head-ends are a mystery and another variable like the IPG. I remember not too long ago when I'd turn on my 8300 and would often have the reset the Picture to get the expanded SD image from my TV. I'm sure the cableco sent some kind of signal downstream that caused my settings to reset, but I can't remember now the last time that has happened. The software didn't change and my setup didn't change, so something had to change at the cableco. Or at least that's what I think. :)

Anyone know a fix for this? Do we just have really crappy out-dated SARA software hereIt's fixed in version 1.88.x.x, whenever your cableco gets that and decides to release it. It's been making the rounds slowly because of other problems, but it seems the latest version is pretty stable. We should be geting it here in the next few weeks.

I didn't mean to imply that there is a First Run indicator that can be seen, there isn't here either. I was actually talking about other data, like the time and title.

I know from my tests a year or 2 ago that the title is displayed differently in different places of the IPG. Right now I am lookng at the IPG entry for Survivor tonight. In the grid, it says "Survivor:Panama -- Exile Island" (31 characters). However, in the box on the left above the grid, it says "Survivor: Pan.". Now, before you say that is just an abbreviation (and it probably is, limited to 30 charaters), the title for CSI is displayed as "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" (30 characters) in both places. "The NewsHour With Jim Leher" displays in the grid, but "News-Leher" displays in the box. This was the same with "The Rebel Billionaire" one week and "The Billionaire" the next in the box even though the grid showed the same thing both weeks.

The other interesting thing is that the display is different for the HD channel vs the analog channel, at least for CSI where the box for the HD channel displays "CSI: Crime Scn". That gives me 2 different titles for CSI in the box.

And, if that's not all, the title that is displayed when you select it for recording comes from the box, not the grid, but the title that is displayed in the list of scheduled recordings comes for the grid, not the box.

What this tells me is that the database contains at least 2 fields for the title and these fields are used at different places in the coding. That in itself is not strange to me because I used similar techniques when I was programming in the Air Force, but in this case, it seems somewhat inconsistent and that is just one of the things I believe is causing some of these recording conflicts and/or lost recordings.
I think the statement in red is incorrect. What I see is:

On the Grid:
Box at Top - Survivor: Pan.
In Grid - Survivor: Panama -- Exile Island

On Recorded List:
Box at Top - "Survivor: Panama -- Exile Island"
In List - Survivor: Panama --

On Scheduled Recordings:
Box at Top - "Survivor: Panama -- Exile Island"
In List - Survivor: Panama -- Exile

It looks like it uses the title in the Grid and then truncates it to fit the width of either the "Recorded Programs" column on the Recorded List or "Scheduled Recordings" column on the Scheduled Recordings. The width of the "Recorded Programs" column is less than the width of the "Scheduled Recordings" column because the Recorded List has more columns. It appears to truncate a word at a time from the end until it fits.

Survivor: Pan. only appears in the box at the top of the grid from what I see.

Anyone besides me have shows from the past in the scheduled recodings list?

RussB,

Look at my NewsHour example, it's not a truncation at all in the box. It's an abbreviation, but not one that I can see that can be done on the fly. IMO, it looks like a separate field and separate entry.

The "Survivor: Panama --" in the list is definitely a simple truncation, but that is not what I was referring to. "Survivor: Pan." came up ONLY when I selected it for recording from the IPG. Once I entered my recording options and pressed the "A" key, it reverted to the full/truncated title for the list. Scroll to the NewsHour repeat on PBS at 2:00 MST, if it repeats where you are. Press Select and you should see "News-Leher" from the box instead of the full title from the grid, if your IPG works the same as mine.

Anyone besides me have shows from the past in the scheduled recodings list?Not sure what you mean. Do you mean schedules that had been recording in the past and now show up with the date they were last recorded? Like a recording scheduled for Deadwood that hasn't been on since last year?

I just received my 8300 DVR today (5/8/06) from Cox in Gainesville, FL and noticed a big glitch.

If a recording is in progress and you select it from the DVR list, it does not play from the beginning, but plays from the current spot of the program. This is very annoying.

There isnt even an option to play from the beginning. This only appears for you if the program is stopped from recording or the show has finished recording

Anyone know a fix for this? Do we just have really crappy out-dated SARA software here

Thanks

Tony
Check the first post in this thread for workarounds for this problem until you get the new release that fixes it. Also, the first post has a lot of other useful tips. One workaround is:

Skip To End 3 - Skip To Beginning Workaround. Another option. Stop the current recording and save it (usually during a commercial). Then start a "new" recording to finish the program. You can then view the first part from the beginning and then view the second part, either in progress or from the beginning after it finishes. While it is annoying to divide the recording into segments, at least you can easily skip to the beginning without rewinding, certainly a useful feature for time-shifting. (Northern Lights)

RussB,

Look at my NewsHour example, it's not a truncation at all in the box. It's an abbreviation, but not one that I can see that can be done on the fly. IMO, it looks like a separate field and separate entry.

The "Survivor: Panama --" in the list is definitely a simple truncation, but that is not what I was referring to. "Survivor: Pan." came up ONLY when I selected it for recording from the IPG. Once I entered my recording options and pressed the "A" key, it reverted to the full/truncated title for the list. Scroll to the NewsHour repeat on PBS at 2:00 MST, if it repeats where you are. Press Select and you should see "News-Leher" from the box instead of the full title from the grid, if your IPG works the same as mine.
Hi Dave,

I think you misunderstood my post. The only part I thought was wrong is what was in red. Maybe I misunderstood it.

And, if that's not all, the title that is displayed when you select it for recording comes from the box, not the grid, but the title that is displayed in the list of scheduled recordings comes for the grid, not the box.

I agree there are 2 seperate fields on the menu grid. One field is in the grid and the other is in the box at the top after you cursor to a program. But once you select a program to record, it only keeps one field which it uses in both the Recorded List and the Scheduled Recordings. I think the field it keeps is from the grid not the field from the box at the top. The truncation I was talking about is done in the Recorded List and Scheduled Recordings if it is needed.

On the Grid:
Box at Top - Newshour
In Grid - The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer

On Recorded List:
Box at Top - ?
In List - ?
"The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer" has not been recorded yet. It does not repeat here overnight but it will record Friday night. I expect this to be
Box at Top - "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer"
In List - The NewsHour With Jim
The word Jim could be removed so it will fit in the column

On Scheduled Recordings:
Box at Top - "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer"
In List - The NewsHour With Jim

Note: Newshour is not kept.

Russ,

I got all that and agree, that part is what I said. I'm not sure my point deserves all this attention :) , but the part you are not reading correctly is the part you highlighted (re-reading it, I probably could have said it better though).

Anyway, I'll try again:

If your IPG works the same as mine, you can find the NewsHour in the grid for tomorrow night and select it.

If you already have it scheduled to record, it should ask if you want to cancel it.

If not, it should ask if you want to record it.

But in both cases, the title it displays AT THAT POINT comes from the box (News-Leher), not the grid (The NewsHour With Jim Leher).

Once you finish the scheduling process, then the complete or truncated title appears in the list just like you showed in your example. The use of the "box" title instead of the "grid" title at that one point in the process was all I was trying to point out with my statement. :)

Xnappo-

At 8:30 when I noticed that Lost wasn't recording, I checked the guide, and it showed Alias 7-8, Lost 8-9:05, Invasion 9:05-10. Amazing Race was 7-8, CSI:NY 9-10. Last Wed everything recorded correctly, but I don't think there was the 5 minute overlap. I'm pretty sure there has been a similar overlap in the past that was successfully recorded, but maybe not this exact situation.

Sean
Could any of this have been caused by ABC's last minute guide change? Lost was originally scheduled for 61 minutes and Invasion for 59 minutes. Sometime on Wednesday a scheduling change came through that changed Lost to 65 minutes and Invasion to 55 minutes.

My 8300HD recorded both shows, as well as CSI:NY, but my guide data had not been updated at all. Lost was recorded for 61 minutes, Invasion for 59 minutes. I had to watch the end of Lost in the Invasion recording.

I have read on other threads where some folks were missing the last 4 minutes of Lost ( only 61 minutes) but Invasion recorded correctly at 55 minutes, thus the end of Lost was, well, lost.

Now to my point...

What would happen if the guide data for Lost updated, but not Invasion right before Lost was scheduled to record. This creates a 3 way conflict, Lost is scheduled until :05, CSI:NY starting at :00, and Invasion starting at :01, hence the three recordings overlap thus nothing records.

Just a thought.

Russ,

I got all that and agree, that part is what I said. I'm not sure my point deserves all this attention :) , but the part you are not reading correctly is the part you highlighted (re-reading it, I probably could have said it better though).

Anyway, I'll try again:

If your IPG works the same as mine, you can find the NewsHour in the grid for tomorrow night and select it.

If you already have it scheduled to record, it should ask if you want to cancel it.

If not, it should ask if you want to record it.

But in both cases, the title it displays AT THAT POINT comes from the box (News-Leher), not the grid (The NewsHour With Jim Leher).

Once you finish the scheduling process, then the complete or truncated title appears in the list just like you showed in your example. The use of the "box" title instead of the "grid" title at that one point in the process was all I was trying to point out with my statement. :)
You are correct. When I use the menu to record a program, I use the record button (REC) instead of the select button. Using the record button, the questions are skipped, so I never saw the "box" title being used. Thanks for your response.

No problem. Like I said, I'm not sure it deserved all this attention, but what the heck. FWIW, I never even thought of using the Record button when in the IPG, but that does save a step for scheduling a recording. You still have to use the Select button to cancel something that's already scheduled to record, but thanks for the tip just the same.

Oh yeah, I forgot,

My 8300 was canibalizing Sopranos for some reason. They would show up in my recorded list for a couple days and then disappear. That's what prompted me to check all my settings and they were set to be saved until I delete.

I have had that happen, too. Not sure why. It is well before the next show is due to record and the recorded show was "until I delete". Frustrating

I had this happen twice with Black & White Night late last year, but I couldn't tell if I had inadvertently deleted it. Both times it happened while I was cleaning out old recordings. After the second time, I did a hard reboot and have not had the problem since. My re-recording from April 13 is still there.

Anyone besides me have shows from the past in the scheduled recodings list?

I have plenty of things sitting in my scheduled recordings list that haven't aired in a while, I'll say 8 of them. The oldest one has a date of 8/7. Among the shows are, Inside the NFL, Rescue Me and Reno 911. I only delete them when I know it won't air again. Rescue Me starts new episodes again on 5/30 and I expect that my all episodes, first run, placeholder will schedule that airing when it shows up in the guide on 5/24. I have seen all first run South Park episodes for two seasons now by leaving it alone.

For reference I have SARA 1.88.15.2 on Cablevision.

RemyM,

Maybe I won't clean mine out anymore and see what happens. I always cleaned them out because we didn't get the New Episodes option until late last year. Have you had any problems with missed recordings of other programs?

Dago Red,

How in the world did you ever catch that? I check my recording schedule quite often, but I don't think I would have noticed all those time changes. :)

It does reinforce the idea that the IPG maybe the culprit in much of this.

RemyM,

Maybe I won't clean mine out anymore and see what happens. I always cleaned them out because we didn't get the New Episodes option until late last year. Have you had any problems with missed recordings of other programs?

No problems at all. The 1.88.15.2 version sets the placeholder 9 days after the last successful recording. You can tell it's a placeholder because it doesn't have a description when you press info. I have had a placeholder create what looks like a 3 way conflict in my scheduled recording list but the two real recordings happened without a hitch.

What programs were you trying to record and what else was scheduled to record during that time?

These were 2 back to back slots of That 70's Show, which for the second slot was a series end/goodbye show. That was yesterday, Thursday, for which I don't record anything else.

I didn't play the recordings, so I don't know how they came out.

Could any of this have been caused by ABC's last minute guide change? Lost was originally scheduled for 61 minutes and Invasion for 59 minutes. Sometime on Wednesday a scheduling change came through that changed Lost to 65 minutes and Invasion to 55 minutes.

My 8300HD recorded both shows, as well as CSI:NY, but my guide data had not been updated at all. Lost was recorded for 61 minutes, Invasion for 59 minutes. I had to watch the end of Lost in the Invasion recording.

I have read on other threads where some folks were missing the last 4 minutes of Lost ( only 61 minutes) but Invasion recorded correctly at 55 minutes, thus the end of Lost was, well, lost.

Now to my point...

What would happen if the guide data for Lost updated, but not Invasion right before Lost was scheduled to record. This creates a 3 way conflict, Lost is scheduled until :05, CSI:NY starting at :00, and Invasion starting at :01, hence the three recordings overlap thus nothing records.

Just a thought.
Could be. When my wife checked the recordings earlier in the day, she didn't write down the start times. The ReplayTV did record Lost and Invasion correctly, but I'm not sure what time its last guide update happened, or if its guide info comes from the same original source as SA's.

It still seems a little suspect, since Lost and Invasion are on the same channel. If their times overlapped, that's a pretty significant consistency error in the guide data. Even though I can easily see the 8300 not handling a data error like that, it seems like the software that creates the guide data wouldn't allow that.

And even if that scenario is exactly what happened, it's completely crazy to me that the box wouldn't record Lost and CSI:NY. It's not even a question of priorities- since these 3 shows start at different times, there's an obvious simple solution- record each show as it starts until there are no available tuners. So Lost would start recording at 8, CSI:NY at 9, and at 9:01, Invasion could not be recorded. The only time that priorities could be involved is when 3 shows start at the same time. Even then, there is a simple solution that doesn't involve priorities- record the shows on the lowest channel numbers. Or if that is patented, record the shows you put into the box first, or the alphabetically first shows, or even 2 random shows of the 3. Anything is better than nothing.

Sean

Could be. When my wife checked the recordings earlier in the day, she didn't write down the start times. The ReplayTV did record Lost and Invasion correctly, but I'm not sure what time its last guide update happened, or if its guide info comes from the same original source as SA's.

It still seems a little suspect, since Lost and Invasion are on the same channel. If their times overlapped, that's a pretty significant consistency error in the guide data. Even though I can easily see the 8300 not handling a data error like that, it seems like the software that creates the guide data wouldn't allow that.

And even if that scenario is exactly what happened, it's completely crazy to me that the box wouldn't record Lost and CSI:NY. It's not even a question of priorities- since these 3 shows start at different times, there's an obvious simple solution- record each show as it starts until there are no available tuners. So Lost would start recording at 8, CSI:NY at 9, and at 9:01, Invasion could not be recorded. The only time that priorities could be involved is when 3 shows start at the same time. Even then, there is a simple solution that doesn't involve priorities- record the shows on the lowest channel numbers. Or if that is patented, record the shows you put into the box first, or the alphabetically first shows, or even 2 random shows of the 3. Anything is better than nothing.

Sean

I don't believe that the guide data was at fault, but that that the timing of the guide data updates and when they were processed may have effected the recordings. Like I stated before, some people with Cablevison got 61 minutes of Lost, nothing for 4 minutes, then 55 minutes of Invasion. Some others correctly got 65 minutes of Lost and then 55 minutes of Invasion. My 8300HD recorded Lost for 61 minutes and Invasion for 59 minutes, clearly not would it should have. My DirecTv Tivo correctly recorded Lost for 65 minutes and Invasion for 55 minutes.

Sometimes I wonder if those that design and code the software for these boxes have ever actually used them. What seems very logical to us may never have been detailed in a design document somewhere, thus never written into the code.

As far as conflicts, I do know that my box has, in the past, recorded the earlier shows, and then not recorded a later conflict, so it is possible. But, then again, all of our software versions are different, and even new versions don't necessarily follow old guidelines.

Even Tivo will not record a conflicting show if a higher priority show overlaps it, even if its on the same channel. An example of this is this Thursday's That 70's Show one hour finale. Since I pad That 70's Show by 2 minutes to catch the end, it was conflicting with The OC, both on Fox, and was not scheduled to record. The OC has a higher priority. Once I removed the padding, both were scheduled to record correctly.

As DoubleDAZ mentioned above, a lot of these missed recordings might be attributed to either problems with the IPG or the processing of the IPG. It is something to keep an eye on.

I don't believe that the guide data was at fault, but that that the timing of the guide data updates and when they were processed may have effected the recordings. Like I stated before, some people with Cablevison got 61 minutes of Lost, nothing for 4 minutes, then 55 minutes of Invasion. Some others correctly got 65 minutes of Lost and then 55 minutes of Invasion. My 8300HD recorded Lost for 61 minutes and Invasion for 59 minutes, clearly not would it should have. My DirecTv Tivo correctly recorded Lost for 65 minutes and Invasion for 55 minutes.
<snip>

I would have been happier if mine had recorded 61 minutes of Lost and 59 minutes of Invasion....

I can understand how guide update timing would result in 61/59 or 65/55, but not 65/59, unless individual show updates are sent constantly throughout the day. Even then, the timing would have to be just perfect.

I don't know about 8300s, but a ReplayTV box connects to the server (generally once a day) via the internet and downloads a file that it processes. Because the guide update is atomic, the scenario above couldn't happen unless the guide data was corrupt and contained overlapping shows on the same channel. Before the update, Lost would be 61 minutes long and Invasion would be 59 minutes. After the update, Lost would be 65 minutes long and Invasion would be 55 minutes. There is no point in time when Lost would be 65 minutes and Invasion would be 59 minutes.

I assume the data has some sort of checksum, and the guide won't be updated with garbage if the file was corrupted during download. Rather, the box would request it again or wait until the next day. That would rule out a guide update that changed Lost to 65 minutes but was corrupt in the part that changed Invasion to 55 minutes.

Sean

Sean,

I have to agree with you. I think the 8300 IPG updates work pretty much the same as ReplayTV and I can't see the 65/59 scenario either under normal conditions. However, if the data itself was incorrect, error checking would not catch that because the file would be correct, just not the data in the file.

Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that the IPG originally showed 61/59 for Lost/Invasion. Let's also say the CSI times didn't change, which they didn't. Let's then say that Lost started recording at 8:00 and that sometime after that the IPG was updated.

But, what if only the end time for Lost got updated and the start time for Invasion remained the same? This would get you to 65/59 and create the 3-way conflict with CSI.

I'll grant you this doesn't seem very plausible, but if the IPG actually got changed during the timeframe we are discussing, this is the only explantion that makes any sense at all to me and accounts for the problems you described. :)

I would have been happier if mine had recorded 61 minutes of Lost and 59 minutes of Invasion....

I can understand how guide update timing would result in 61/59 or 65/55, but not 65/59, unless individual show updates are sent constantly throughout the day. Even then, the timing would have to be just perfect.

I don't know about 8300s, but a ReplayTV box connects to the server (generally once a day) via the internet and downloads a file that it processes. Because the guide update is atomic, the scenario above couldn't happen unless the guide data was corrupt and contained overlapping shows on the same channel. Before the update, Lost would be 61 minutes long and Invasion would be 59 minutes. After the update, Lost would be 65 minutes long and Invasion would be 55 minutes. There is no point in time when Lost would be 65 minutes and Invasion would be 59 minutes.

I assume the data has some sort of checksum, and the guide won't be updated with garbage if the file was corrupted during download. Rather, the box would request it again or wait until the next day. That would rule out a guide update that changed Lost to 65 minutes but was corrupt in the part that changed Invasion to 55 minutes.

Sean
It was the 61/55 that got me wondering exactly how the 8300 processes guide data. When I read that some had missed the last 4 minutes of Lost, but got Invasion intact starting at :05, that's what made me start thinking.

I have only had my 8300 miss a couple of recordings that were actually scheduled, but didn't record. One happened while I was sitting there looking at the box. It was in the schedule to record, but just never started.

I have noticed a new trend lately where the Networks are playing around a lot with shows' start and end times and are constantly changing the guide data during the week. My Tivo has a bunch of entries these days stating, "will not record, no longer in guide data", because the Network would drop a show from the guide and then add it again with new start and/or end times. The show is no longer scheduled to record until Tivo processes the new data.

Since the season is almost over, it probably won't matter much longer, but I will keep a closer watch on what's in the guide data if and when I miss another recording.

DR

It was the 61/55 that got me wondering exactly how the 8300 processes guide data. When I read that some had missed the last 4 minutes of Lost, but got Invasion intact starting at :05, that's what made me start thinking.

I have only had my 8300 miss a couple of recordings that were actually scheduled, but didn't record. One happened while I was sitting there looking at the box. It was in the schedule to record, but just never started.

I have noticed a new trend lately where the Networks are playing around a lot with shows' start and end times and are constantly changing the guide data during the week. My Tivo has a bunch of entries these days stating, "will not record, no longer in guide data", because the Network would drop a show from the guide and then add it again with new start and/or end times. The show is no longer scheduled to record until Tivo processes the new data.

Since the season is almost over, it probably won't matter much longer, but I will keep a closer watch on what's in the guide data if and when I miss another recording.

DR
Kind of makes you wonder if the networks are searching for ways to discourage people with DVRs (which we all know are primarily used to defeat commercals). :rolleyes:

I show 64/56 for next week. :)

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean schedules that had been recording in the past and now show up with the date they were last recorded? Like a recording scheduled for Deadwood that hasn't been on since last year?

Sorry for being so vague, for example I have in my scheduled recordings list:

In Justice 4/7 10:00p-1100p

and a couple other similar to that, in other words shows scheduled for last month. Now in looking into it there was no episode of In Justice that aired that night as far as I can tell. Even so, you would think the list would not show past items on the list or update it to reflect an error or something????

rothlike,

In Justice aired on Friday nights and the last episode was 3/31. After that finished recording, the schedule would have been updated for the next air date, 4/7. Since it hasn't been on again, the list will show the scheduled recording for 4/7 until it shows up in the IPG again or you delete it. When it shows up in the IPG again, the list will be updated to show the next scheduled recording date. This is how it works and you can leave it there until the show comes back next season, if it does, or you can delete it now and reschedule it again later. If you have shows scheduled now that will be ending their runs this month, they will show up with May/June dates for the same reason.

rothlike,

In Justice aired on Friday nights and the last episode was 3/31. After that finished recording, the schedule would have been updated for the next air date, 4/7. Since it hasn't been on again, the list will show the scheduled recording for 4/7 until it shows up in the IPG again or you delete it. When it shows up in the IPG again, the list will be updated to show the next scheduled recording date. This is how it works and you can leave it there until the show comes back next season, if it does, or you can delete it now and reschedule it again later. If you have shows scheduled now that will be ending their runs this month, they will show up with May/June dates for the same reason.

Thanks Dave, that makes sense now. I appreciate the help!

-- Rich

You're welcome, Rich. FWIW, I think we need an "8300 For Dummy's" type book with all the undocumented stuff from this thread. SA does a decent job of documenting basic operation, but it leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to anything else. We shouldn't have to come to this thread to find this stuff out, but I'm sure glad vegggas started this informal User's Guide stuff with the SA8000HD way back when.

FWIW, I think we need an "8300 For Dummy's" type book with all the undocumented stuff from this thread. SA does a decent job of documenting basic operation, but it leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to anything else. We shouldn't have to come to this thread to find this stuff out, but I'm sure glad vegggas started this informal User's Guide stuff with the SA8000HD way back when.

I agree on all points! I am very thankful this thread exists and is so informative. With something like the SA8300, you would think it would be more intuitive considering it has so much potential and is such a widely used product. Hopefully SA will see the need to improve, and soon!

-- Rich

You're welcome, Rich. FWIW, I think we need an "8300 For Dummy's" type book with all the undocumented stuff from this thread. SA does a decent job of documenting basic operation, but it leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to anything else. We shouldn't have to come to this thread to find this stuff out, but I'm sure glad vegggas started this informal User's Guide stuff with the SA8000HD way back when.

Problem is that it is not we who are the dummy's, its the cable companies and the software producers.

Note, however, that some versions of SARA software corrupt the video being shipped out the OUT 2 jack during "copy to VCR" playback. You might be disappointed with the quality of your recording if you have one of the software versions with this problem.

Does V1.87, or later, fix this problem?

Credit to member GVC and this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7610112&&#post7610112

Since you (and I) are in Vegas, could you please answer a few questions about Cox.

1) At NAB, I heard Cox does Rate Shaping on their HD channels. Mark Cuban has been very vocal about not signing contracts with any company that alters his HDnet signal. (CBS was rumored to also follow the same policy, but now that their O&O stations multicast, they may no longer care.)

I'm wondering if that's why we don't have either HDnet or National Geographic. It makes little sense to bug Cox for these HD channels if it is the suppliers who won't do deals with Cox.

2) Curious if you know which channels are selling DTV bits to USDTV?

3) And, other than PBS, who is multicasting?

4) Last, but not least, does V1.87 enable FireWire output? I'm getting nothing into my D-VHS deck from my 8300HD-PVR box.

Does V1.87, or later, fix this problem?

Here in San Diego it was 1.87.16.1 that caused the problem.

Here in San Diego it was 1.87.16.1 that caused the problem.

Same here in Tempe.

Since you (and I) are in Vegas, could you please answer a few questions about Cox. Then you should head over to the local Las Vegas area thread - It's linked in my sig. Most of these Q's have been discussed there in detail.


1) At NAB, I heard Cox does Rate Shaping on their HD channels. Mark Cuban has been very vocal about not signing contracts with any company that alters his HDnet signal. (CBS was rumored to also follow the same policy, but now that their O&O stations multicast, they may no longer care.)

I'm wondering if that's why we don't have either HDnet or National Geographic. It makes little sense to bug Cox for these HD channels if it is the suppliers who won't do deals with Cox. Two things.
First, If they are rate shaping, it's not apparent here in Las Vegas at all. They would employ rate shaping to stuff more data into the same amount of bits, like stuffing three, or four HD streams (19.2Mbps Max) onto a 256QAM (38Mbps) channel. There are only TWO HD channels per QAM here. Stat-Muxing, however, is used throughout the digital video distribution industry, because an HD signal, at a supposed OTA compatible 19.2Mbps is NEVER SUSTAINED at that rate- It's variable. Typical data rates are usually around 14-15 Mbps and can easily go as low as 10-12Mbps. Spikes up to the full (OTA) 19.2Mbps are rare. Stat-muxing watches the multiple streams and allocates the shared data rate as needed by the input source material. That way a 4mbps SD signal could be shown on the same QAM as two HD signals and never interfere with max bit rates, UNLESS BOTH HD channels were at full bit rate at the same time.
Second, AFAIK, HD-Net has been in negotiations with Cox for some time. I don't know the details, but I believe there is an issue with cost, and how that is passed to the consumer. Cox, wants to continue to keep all of their HD channels free (i.e - no additional cost over digital service), but the HD-Nets may cost the operator too much not to be on a premium service with an a-la-cart fee attached.

2) Curious if you know which channels are selling DTV bits to USDTV? Look in the local Las Vegas thread and do a search. Data rates are captured and displayed, etc.

3) And, other than PBS, who is multicasting?ALL LV LOCAL HD CHANNELS Multicast! CBS has the highest average video data rate, and doesn't have a dedicated subchannel, but they often allocate up to 8 or more locked subchannels at various times, which eats away at the main feed.

4) Last, but not least, does V1.87 enable FireWire output? I'm getting nothing into my D-VHS deck from my 8300HD-PVR box.
V1.87 has about 40 different versions - i.e. the rest of the firmware code...
1.87.16.1 was the last major stable release for most cabel systems. 1.87.24.xx or later never exhibited the copy to VCR bug that was only in 1.87.16.1, and limited firewire support, but had enough undesired side affects, that got it recalled. Newer stuff is coming around the corner. For your D-VHS problem, are you trying to see live content or "previously copied to the drive" (DVR'd) content? Content protection and functionality over firewire (SA) was designed for live content.

slow weekend...
vegggas

These were 2 back to back slots of That 70's Show, which for the second slot was a series end/goodbye show. That was yesterday, Thursday, for which I don't record anything else.

I didn't play the recordings, so I don't know how they came out.

Well, to my great surprise and upset, the second slot, which was more important than the first, was not recorded. I definitely setup both, with the issues explained, and recorded only the first one.

I still ask, what happened here?

I'm having an issue w/ my SA8300 (Comcast - Arlington, VA). I record several shows a day for my wife in SD and have not problem - except for the Paula Deen cooking show on Food Network (only show I record on Food Network). It only records 11 minutes, then stops and records another 11 minutes. I have it set to "Record all shows on this channel" and for it to Save the Last 2 epsoides. So I only get 2 11 minute eposides. What can this be about? I've deleted it out a couple of times and reprogrammed, but still just 11 minutes.

Thanks,
Zebras 23

I'm having an issue with my SA8300HD. I've been using component but this weekend I decided to use HDMI. Everything is fine but when I switch from a HD channel to a SD one I lose the the audio. I hear a little "pop" sound and that's that. If I unplug the HDMI and plug it back in all is well and I can go from any SD channel without losing of sound. Same with any HD channel, switching between them is fine. It's just switching from HD to SD.

I contacted my cable provider and found they didn't support the HDMI connection (even though they provide my HD service). They directed me to SA site which I already knew about and have never gotten any response from them.

Any ideas?

zebras23,

Not sure what is going on, but if all else fails, try deleting the schedule for that program and then do a "hard" reboot (pull the power cord, then press/hold the Power button while plugging the power cord back in until the display shows Boot or begins cycling).

zebras23,

Not sure what is going on, but if all else fails, try deleting the schedule for that program and then do a "hard" reboot (pull the power cord, then press/hold the Power button while plugging the power cord back in until the display shows Boot or begins cycling).

Will the hard reboot erase my "saved" recordings?

Thanks.

I have a couple of questions about this unit.

My first question. I have having audio problems. I have tried to connect my 8300 via component and cheaper HDMI cables from monoprice.com. On the HD channels, it seems that I am only getting 2.0 sound. I have read the tricks and tried setting the Digital Out between HDMI and Dolby Digital without any luck. Both cables seem to have the audio problem. SD channels appear to get much better sound. Anyone else notice this?

Also,

What is a good way to get data (HD or SD) off of the 8300 to a stand alone HD recorder? I tried searching for this information on this forum for information about it. I haven't purchased a recorder yet, but I wanted to get some insight about this before I purchased a recorder. Should I purchase a recorder that has a built in hard drive? This seems like the logical answer, but I do not know anything about it.

Thanks,

Will the hard reboot erase my "saved" recordings?

Thanks.

No

I have a quick question. I want to watch a recording that's in progress. However, when I do that it won't let me watch it. I go to the menu of recording shows, see my show in red, then hit the select button but all it does is switch the DVR to that channel. I do not see a menu allowing me to watch it from the beginning. Anyone else have this issue?

The start from begining option only apears in SARA versions 1.88.xx.x.
You must have a 1.87.xx.x version.
Go to the first post to see how to check what version your cable company is running on your box.

ALL LV LOCAL HD CHANNELS Multicast! CBS has the highest average video data rate, and doesn't have a dedicated subchannel, but they often allocate up to 8 or more locked subchannels at various times, which eats away at the main feed.

No wonder HD looks so much worse here than NYC. Because of 9/11, the stations, except two, don't MC. (Or, at least they didn't last year.) And, they feed TWC via fiber optic cable. (They had to, since there was no OTA for 6 months.)

---------------------

"1.87.16.1 was the last major stable release for most cabel systems."

That's what I have.

"For your D-VHS problem, are you trying to see live content or "previously copied to the drive" (DVR'd) content?"

I have the 8300 connected by i.LINK to my 30000 deck. The deck is switched to "I" and nothing is coming from the cable box. Resetting i.LINK makes no difference.

Of course, perhaps nothing should be coming given that 1.87.16.1 may not support Output. That's my question. If 1.87.16.1 does support i.LINK output, then there may be something wrong with my 8300.

I do not see a menu allowing me to watch it from the beginning. Anyone else have this issue?As RemyM said, you won't see that option until your cablco releases version1.88.x.x. In the meantime, all you can do is rewind to the beginning. However, when the recording ends, it will kick you out to "live" and then you will have to reselect the recording and FF/REW to the point where you left off.

The start from begining option only apears in SARA versions 1.88.xx.x.
You must have a 1.87.xx.x version.
Go to the first post to see how to check what version your cable company is running on your box.

Yep I have 1.87.16.1. :(

Odd, it's in the SA 8300HD manual that you can do it. Did they disable it early on for some reason?

Stryker412,

The manual reflects what is in the current software that has been released by SA, not what version a given cableco is using. Therefore, much of what is in the current manual will not be applicable until your cableco releases 1.88.x.x or a later version.

I would like to advise folks to download the latest manual if they have not done so for a while. I hadn't and I see there is a lot of new info in the latest version.

No wonder HD looks so much worse here than NYC. Because of 9/11, the stations, except two, don't MC. (Or, at least they didn't last year.) And, they feed TWC via fiber optic cable. (They had to, since there was no OTA for 6 months.)

---------------------

"1.87.16.1 was the last major stable release for most cabel systems."

That's what I have.

"For your D-VHS problem, are you trying to see live content or "previously copied to the drive" (DVR'd) content?"

I have the 8300 connected by i.LINK to my 30000 deck. The deck is switched to "I" and nothing is coming from the cable box. Resetting i.LINK makes no difference.

Of course, perhaps nothing should be coming given that 1.87.16.1 may not support Output. That's my question. If 1.87.16.1 does support i.LINK output, then there may be something wrong with my 8300.

Please discuss this in the local LV thread - It's a local issue, but something is not right in your setup, since most HD looks great, most of the time.

vegggas

Has any encountered problems with the 8300HD having recordings become corrupted?

Tonight I tried recording PrisonBreak, 24 and Grey's Anatomy.
The programs overlapped on different channels.
FoxHD: 8:20 - 9:20 PrisonBreak, 9:20-10:20 24
ABCHD: 9:00-11:00 Grey's Anatomy.

Grey's Anatomy recorded fine - in fact I rewound the episode while recording it and watched the entire episode tonight, starting at 10:30.
However, both PrisonBreak and 24 lost the last part of each show. The recording line shows a red bar at the end for both recordings. If I hit stop and 'start from the end' the recording of Prison Break and 24 start playing ,then hit a corruption that makes the 8300HD lockup completely - nothing from the remote or the front panel buttons gives any reaction - so I finally pulled the power plug to reset it.

Now I did have the 8300HD and its TV on Fox while it was recording - but was watching tv in another room while I was working on my computer. During the last commercial break of 24 I went into the other room and saw the display on my main TV from the 8300HD was all grey. The record light was still on so I didn't want to touch anything. As I said above, it continued to record Grey's Anatomy without issue, but the last part of 24 was just not there.

My box has done this a few times before and I'm thinking maybe its defective, I just don't understand how one thing could record fine - but another gets corrupted so bad that it locks the box up on playback. Maybe one of the tuners is defective?

Any ideas on what I should do with this box, or should I just bring it back to TimeWarner and get another one to try out?

Thanks for any ideas!

Here’s an odd one which someone else may have encountered.

I recently moved and my 8300HD was well packed in its original box. When I turned it on, I discovered it was sending red only via its component outputs. Not only that, but it doesn’t even recognize an HD signal. When I do the setup routine for supported resolutions, it only has SD as a configuration option. When I play back an HD recording, it only outputs 480i. I have the 8300 set to pass through and it does show auto in the display.

There is nothing wrong with the cables or display, as I have a 3250 box which works just fine with the same cables and display. I even tried a different set of cables, with the same result.

I called my cable company and they said it sounds like the box is defective, which is probably the case from the way it’s acting. I can get a picture from S-Video, so at least I can watch my recorded programs before I try to get the 8300 fixed. I own it, so I can’t swap it with the cable company.

Has anyone else seen this problem? If so, did you get it resolved?

Jim,
It sounds like your STB has defaulted to SD mode. This is an option for the STB when connected in an SD environment.
Turn off the STB, but leave the TV on. Press Guide and info. There should be a message saying Press B for HD mode, or possibly A. Press and hold B for a moment, the display will change. Redo the steps using A or B to get the color correct, but it should be B, even if the option is not shown.

vegggas:

You're brilliant! I tried that before, but didn't wait long enough. The first and only message that comes up is select A for SD mode, but waiting for a few seconds gets a second screen to select B for HD mode. That solved the problem and got rid of the red problem via component.

So much for the knowledge of tech people at the cable company.

Thanks again. What would we do without these great AVS forums. :)

Has any encountered problems with the 8300HD having recordings become corrupted?

...The recording line shows a red bar at the end for both recordings. If I hit stop and 'start from the end' the recording of Prison Break and 24 start playing ,then hit a corruption that makes the 8300HD lockup completely - nothing from the remote or the front panel buttons gives any reaction - so I finally pulled the power plug to reset it...

I think that the red bar means there's a recording in progress on that area, choosing "start from the end" makes the DVR start like at 5% from the end, that would put you inside the red bar. There's your malfunction, it can't play and record in the same place.

Now, there should be a protection against this kind of action and the choice should appear grayed or not available, but you know, their still improving the thing.

Just be careful the next time.

Actually, I don't think awdorrin was tying to watch a currently recoding program and FF past live. Awdorrin has a problem with his memory buffers for one of the tuners, and should do a HARD reboot to clear and recreate the buffers (not just pull the plug). What he saw was the mpeg video being truncated at the end of the memory space. This can hapen as the memory gets fragmented on the unit, and why SA recommends that the unit shuts down every night and performs diagnostics, however, most cable co's have had to disable the feature due to complaints from users watching at night, or setting late night recordings.

vegggas

Yes you are correct, I was watching previously recorded shows. The order of events was: Recording Prison Break and 24 on Fox from 8:20 to 10:20pm (with cable box tuned to fox) while recording Grey's Anatomy on ABC from 9-11pm.
At 10:30pm I 'rewound' Grey's Anatomy to start watching it while the end was still recording. Around midnight after I finished watching Grey's I checked the program list and found Prison Break and 24 both about 5-10 minutes short. This is when I tried the 'skip to end' to see what happened (and had the cable box lockup when I hit the corruption.)

I did try to do a hard reboot last weekend, but I'm not sure it actually worked.

I have noticed a few things recently. When I am watching an HD channel through the 8300, I get corruption in the data stream. This results in digital artifacts on the screen (sometimes a few 'pixels' - sometimes lines all across the screen) - at the same time I also get audio breakup with some digital squealing. So the other day I listened to the audio output from my 8300 while watching the HD channel directly from the cable to my TV's tuner (bypassing the 8300 for video); What I found was that I would get large amounts of digital squeals, but would see no problems with the picture itself.

This leads me to believe that there is a problem with the hardware of one of the tuners in the 8300 - which results in the digital artifacts.

I guess I should make a listof what I've got recorded - bit-torrent it down to my PC - and return the 8300 box for a replacement.

How do you skip to end? I missed that command.

As for the 5-10 minutes loss I venture to say that clearly has to be because of the Presidental Address insertion and the correct info was not transmitted to the 8300.

You probably selected record this time only instead of any airing on the channel at any time - so it recorded in the normal time slot and did not record the overages.

Just a guess, but I suspect that is correct.

How do you skip to end? I missed that command.
When you are watching a prerecorded show, you can press the "stop" key and a menu will be displayed. This menu has the "Skip to end" option. The other menu options are "Copy to VCR", "Play from beginning", "Play from current location", and "Erase".

Also, this menu shows when you stopped and how much time is left and the running time. It allows you to use the "info" button to get the actual show description instead of the description of the playback channel. To get back to where you were in the show, select the "Play from current location" menu option.

I guess I should make a listof what I've got recorded - bit-torrent it down to my PC - and return the 8300 box for a replacement.

Cool.
Is there a quick "how-to" - maybe a link? - on transferring to PC via bit-torrent? Thx.

Try googling **********. Looks like a lot of links show up.

Be advised though, this is not a process to transfer files from the 8300 to a PC. Unless I'm mistaken, this is a Napster-like file sharing process to get missed recordings from someone else on the net.

Cool.
Is there a quick "how-to" - maybe a link? - on transferring to PC via bit-torrent? Thx.
Bit Torrent does not transfer files from the STB to your PC, but it allows you to download video/data files from other users. It's basically a napster-like file sharing program/system in which you search for a file (such as a TV program) and then initiate a download from several other users of the program who have that specific content stored in a shared folder on their PC. Some programs you may not be able to find, but probably most you can. I use this program as well as bearshare to download all sorts of things, they work well, especially for TV series and programs. May take a while if you want a lot of content though, even with broadband internet. I have cable internet from Adelphia and it can take a few hours to download a 1-1.5 hour MPEG-2 file (non-HD).

Bit-torrent has NOTHING to do with the set top box, it has to do with finding a way to watch the content you may miss after getting rid of your DVR, in this case anyway.

Bit-torrent has NOTHING to do with the set top box, it has to do with finding a way to watch the content you may miss after getting rid of your DVR, in this case anyway.

Sorry about the confusion from my original comment :)

As far as I know, the only way you could get files off the 8300 would be if you have a TV tuner card in your PC. Then would have to connect from the 8300 to your tuner card via S-Video and use 'Copy to VCR' from the 8300 and 'record' on your PC. Capture on the PC would be done in 'real-time' so its nowhere near as nice as some of the 'Tivo' features I've heard of.

Don't forget too that in some versions of SARA the "Copy To VCR" PQ is pretty lame, so this is something you need to test before you invest.

Dave,

I have been recording DVDs on a CyberHome DVD recorder attached to my SA8300HD via a S-Video cable. I've tried your suggestion for creating a anamorphic DVD put I can't get the SA8300HD to display it.

Here is a photo of the setup screen specifying "A":
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv1a.JPG

Here is the TV screen after I selected "A":
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv2a.JPG

Here is the SA8300HD LED console showing that I am receiving HDTV and displayin 480i:
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv3a.JPG

Here is the TV screen set to stretch mode put not "stretching"
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv4a.JPG
Note the grey bars at the top and bottom while being in 480i Stretch mode.
Also, Zoom1 and Zoom2 do not work. It's like it's stuck in Normal mode.

I noticed that if I'm receiving 480i (as well as displaying it) the Stretch mode is not available.

It seems my chepo $99 TV can't receive different kinds of Zoom and the stretch mode while my Panasonic plasma (which is in the shop being repaired) could. But, I was using component cables with the plasma TV and S-Video cables with the CRT TV.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks...


It appears that you are doing everything alright. :confused:

What version of SARA are you running? It worked fine with 1.87.16.109 and I just checked it again on a recording I made of last night's Leno with 1.88.17.100 (which we received a week or two ago) and it still works fine.

I take it that you get exactly the same picture with "Normal" and "Stretch" settings (both with gray bars at top and bottom).

Another brain-check on my part. My TV was hooked to the SA8300HD
with composite cables (not component or S-Video). I switched to S-Video and the anamorphic trick works perfectly. I have created an anamorphic DVD from the SA8300HD - a noticeable increase in quality from letter-boxed DVD.

Thanks for your help.

Another brain-check on my part. My TV was hooked to the SA8300HD
with composite cables (not component or S-Video). I switched to S-Video and it the anamorphic trick works perfectly. I have created an anamorphic DVD from the SA8300HD - a noticeable increase in quality from letter-boxed DVD.

Thanks for your help.
Connected to your TV with "COMPOSITE"? Why do you have an HD box then, do you not subscribe to any HD channels or do you not have an HDTV? Only "COMPONENT," which you say you were not using, and HDMI can deliver HD programming?????

Are you using this analog interface only for recording DVD's, or for regular TV viewing? If just for burning DVD's, then sorry my mistake, but if for watching programming on an HDTV, you should definately use component or HDMI.

When recording off the 8300 it only outputs 480i.

Connected to your TV with "COMPOSITE"? Why do you have an HD box then, do you not subscribe to any HD channels or do you not have an HDTV? Only "COMPONENT," which you say you were not using, and HDMI can deliver HD programming?????

My Panasonic plasma HDTV has been in the repair shop for 7 weeks. See:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7416181#post7416181

I had hooked up a cheap temporary replacement TV and I was confused about how its input selection worked.

twitchee3, are you blushing. :) :D :)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I have been recording DVDs on a CyberHome DVD recorder attached to my SA8300HD via a S-Video cable.

Here is a photo of the setup screen specifying "A":
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv1a.JPG

Here is the TV screen after I selected "A":
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv2a.JPG

Here is the SA8300HD LED console showing that I am receiving HDTV and displayin 480i:
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv3a.JPG

Here is the TV screen set to stretch mode
http://www.geocities.com/truerock2/SA8300HD/tv4a.JPG


Anyway, I am playing around with the anamorphic DVD I made. I made it with a CyberHome 1600 DVD Recorder/Player. But, the CyberHome doesn't have a way to mark the DVD as anamorphic.

Does anyone know how I can edit my DVD and mark it anamorphic?

I want DVD players to automatically go into Stretch mode when I play it.

************************************************************ *

June 4, 2006
I'll answer my own question. This is something you will need to know if you are going to record anamorphic DVDs from your SA 8300HD. Use IFOedit. See:
http://www.ifoedit.com/index.html

Edit the VTS_01_0.IFO file. Change the "Video" line in the "Title Set (Movie) attributes". Double click on the "Video" line. Change the aspect ratio from 4:3 to 16:9.

Although IFO files are stupendously complex, this specific change is very easy.

Sorry about the confusion from my original comment :)

Oops..my bad. I've used ********** before to download...I misconstrued your statement thinking there was some newfangled way to dump content...please return to your regularly scheduled program.

Oops..my bad. I've used ********** before to download...I misconstrued your statement thinking there was some newfangled way to dump content...please return to your regularly scheduled program.
We all hope for the best..............but we are usually let down :(

Thanks for the nice thread.

Anybody else have this problem? SA 8300HD intermittently locks up when browsing channels 400+ in the guide. After the lock-up, the unit times out in about 5 minutes and reboots. TWC technician said it was a software problem with the SA 8300HD. I have Sara version 1.87.16.a104 with TWC in Houston. Any work arounds or any way to upgrade the software? Thanks

Rob

Thanks for the nice thread.

Anybody else have this problem? SA 8300HD intermittently locks up when browsing channels 400+ in the guide. After the lock-up, the unit times out in about 5 minutes and reboots. TWC technician said it was a software problem with the SA 8300HD. I have Sara version 1.87.16.a104 with TWC in Houston. Any work arounds or any way to upgrade the software? Thanks

Rob
You cannot update the software or firmware yourself, you have to wait for the cable company to push out a new version. You can't even revert to an old version of software or firmware by yourself if you are having issues with new releases. It's a pain, but this is how it is on ALL cable company STB's.

Thanks for the nice thread.

Anybody else have this problem? SA 8300HD intermittently locks up when browsing channels 400+ in the guide. After the lock-up, the unit times out in about 5 minutes and reboots. TWC technician said it was a software problem with the SA 8300HD. I have Sara version 1.87.16.a104 with TWC in Houston. Any work arounds or any way to upgrade the software? Thanks

Rob
Yes, I have the same problem. I am also in Houston with the same version. It is supposed to be fixed in the next release that we get. There is no way you can upgrade the software. That is done by Houston TWC. You can force the software to reload, but you get the same software version. That can fix some problems but not this one. See the first post in this thread, for how to reload the software. I noticed that the lock up mostly happens when I scroll fast through the guide. I try to jump to the channel (click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7692175&&#post7692175)) and day (press the B key) as much as I can. When I scroll, I try to let the guide stay caught up by scrolling very slowly. This seems to help prevent the SA 8300HD from locking up as much. When it does lock up, you can immediately reboot the box by removing and reinserting the plug. This eliminates the 5 minute timeout.

There is a Houston, TX - TWC thread (Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7691773#goto_threadtools)) that you might be interested in.

Hello, I've been researching this problem for a while now and cannot find the answer. One would think this would be a popular thing to do but I guess I'm wrong.

I live in Florida for the winter and didn't finish watching all the shows I recorded on my SA8300HD (adelphia). I figured the pvr function would work anywhere so I took the whole unit with me back to New York for the summer. So I plug it in using just the S-Video out and audio out. No cable-in since I have a different service provider in NY.... Well the unit started to boot up just fine, I saw the nice SA logo and figured in a couple of minutes I could press the LIST button and see all my recorded shows....Well, no so much. Basically I get nothing - Advanced services not available.

Is there a way to access the pvr for playback without loading the IPG from the service provider? Is there some sort of boot bypass feature I don't know about? can I copy the video off using one of the ports? Or am I just SOL ?

I was able to get into the SARA diag setup screens but that's it.

any help or hacks would be appreciated, Thanks.
Mike

I think you are out of luck. AFAIK, the 8300 has to be able to "talk" to the cableco in order to finish the boot process and function. For one thing, all playback takes place on the assigned cable channel and if the 8300 is not connected to the system, it doesn't know what to do. I'm sure there are other technical reasons and maybe vegggas will chime in with more detail than I can provide. I'm sure the feature could be programmed in, and perhaps will be in future units, but there hasn't been much need for this since the boxes are rented from a given cableco and generally don't move from place to place.

Yes, I have the same problem. I am also in Houston with the same version. It is supposed to be fixed in the next release that we get. There is no way you can upgrade the software. That is done by Houston TWC. You can force the software to reload, but you get the same software version. That can fix some problems but not this one. See the first post in this thread, for how to reload the software. I noticed that the lock up mostly happens when I scroll fast through the guide. I try to jump to the channel and day (press the B key) as much as I can. When I scroll, I try to let the guide stay caught up by scrolling very slowly. This seems to help prevent the SA 8300HD from locking up as much. When it does lock up, you can immediately reboot the box by removing and reinserting the plug. This eliminates the 5 minute timeout.

There is a Houston, TX - TWC thread that you might be interested in.

Thanks! I'll try scrolling slower to see if that helps. One thing I do sometimes is scroll without going into the guide. The problem is you only see one channel at a time, but it won't lock up.

No wonder I couldn't find this problem when I searched this thread. It's all over the place in the local Houston thread. Thanks for the thread pointer. I wonder if this is specific to Houston, and if we are the only ones with this software version...

Rob

I have the 50A10 with the STB (SA3800HD) hooked up via HDMI. I am getting a vertical image shift of about 1/2" downwards. When I hook up the STB via component, the image is centered and no problems. When I hook up the DVD player via component, the image is centered and no problems. Unfortunatly, I do not have another HDMI input to make another HDMI comparison.....Two questions:

1) Most importantly, is the vertical image shift using HDMI a TV problem or a STB problem? I am getting really paranoid that I am going to have to take the TV back.

2) Can the image shift be corrected just for the HDMI input in the STB service menu?

Thanks!

I have the 50A10 with the STB (SA3800HD) hooked up via HDMI. I am getting a vertical image shift of about 1/2" downwards. When I hook up the STB via component, the image is centered and no problems. When I hook up the DVD player via component, the image is centered and no problems. Unfortunatly, I do not have another HDMI input to make another HDMI comparison.....Two questions:

1) Most importantly, is the vertical image shift using HDMI a TV problem or a STB problem? I am getting really paranoid that I am going to have to take the TV back.

2) Can the image shift be corrected just for the HDMI input in the STB service menu?

Thanks!

1) I'm pretty sure it is a TV problem - it should be correctable in the TV service menu. I have the service menu for your set, but Sony lately has not been including the service menu parameters in it, so I can't be sure that it is individually correctable for the HDMI input. It sounds like the set is under warranty, so why not have them come and fix it.

2) No, the STB service menu (diagnostic menu actually) does not have adjustments.

defeedme,
The simple answer - your SOL.
Longer answer - The STB's encryption/decryption is through the cable system on a rolling code authentication basis, even for recorded content. Your STB's Mac address has to be authorized by the cable co's "digital router" to even get on the system to allow a link for the passing of authentication information. The STB's Mac address is liscensed to the cable company by the STB manufacturer for use on the single system (In the U.S.) where it's added to their "router" database. - for each local neighborhood node.
This means that a given STB will only work on the liscensed system where it's sold and then authorized to work on the node where it's setup to be used. Without being setup, it can't authenticate the actively changing decryption schemes of the content coming down the cable, or stored still encrypted on the HDD.

vegggas

Dan_R_M,
It's a TV problem. What's worse, is that it may shift with different resolutions. Try setting you STB to FIXED and then manually change from 720P to 1080i to see if the image moves. In my indepedent testing, I've found the Sony's have looked better at 1080i instead of the usual 720P for digital displays, but YMMV.

vegggas

Dan_R_M,
It's a TV problem. What's worse, is that it may shift with different resolutions. Try setting you STB to FIXED and then manually change from 720P to 1080i to see if the image moves. In my indepedent testing, I've found the Sony's have looked better at 1080i instead of the usual 720P for digital displays, but YMMV.

vegggas

Actually...I should have made this clear initially. The vertical shift does not occur on HD content (720p and 1080i). Only on SD content (480i and 480p). I can only tell it happens when the picture is 16:9 and the top black bar is 1/2" bigger than the bottom black bar. Still think it's the TV?

vegggas, Wow, thanks for getting back to me. You are the master.

These cable companies are really evil - what harm would it be to let me watch some shows I recorded, while I'm STILL a paying customer!!!

So, let me ask you this quick question.. If I knew this was going to happen, could I have pulled the shows off the HD first using the SATA connection to an external HD? Or would the shows still be encrypted even after they were copied off?

I did read in another forum that some people were able to get the SATA and Firewire ports to work. I checked in my sara diag screens and the firewire port is unlocked.

Thanks again
Mike

defeedme,
The simple answer - your SOL.
Longer answer - The STB's encryption/decryption is through the cable system on a rolling code authentication basis, even for recorded content. Your STB's Mac address has to be authorized by the cable co's "digital router" to even get on the system to allow a link for the passing of authentication information. The STB's Mac address is liscensed to the cable company by the STB manufacturer for use on the single system (In the U.S.) where it's added to their "router" database. - for each local neighborhood node.
This means that a given STB will only work on the liscensed system where it's sold and then authorized to work on the node where it's setup to be used. Without being setup, it can't authenticate the actively changing decryption schemes of the content coming down the cable, or stored still encrypted on the HDD.

vegggas

vegggas, Wow, thanks for getting back to me. You are the master.

These cable companies are really evil - what harm would it be to let me watch some shows I recorded, while I'm STILL a paying customer!!!

So, let me ask you this quick question.. If I knew this was going to happen, could I have pulled the shows off the HD first using the SATA connection to an external HD? Or would the shows still be encrypted even after they were copied off?

I did read in another forum that some people were able to get the SATA and Firewire ports to work. I checked in my sara diag screens and the firewire port is unlocked.

Thanks again
Mike

It isn't that they are evil, they exhibit paranoid behavior about their so called precious content. Yep, just expanded primate behaviors. :D

So, let me ask you this quick question.. If I knew this was going to happen, could I have pulled the shows off the HD first using the SATA connection to an external HD? Or would the shows still be encrypted even after they were copied off?

That is not the way the SATA drive works. One, you can't tell it to record to the SATA drive over the internal drive, it records to the drive with the most space. Two, all recordings on the SATA are encrypted and can only be played back from the DVR they were recorded on. Once you plug the SATA into another DVR it will ask to reformat the drive.

Your only choice would be the copy to VCR feature to get the recordings off the DVR.

These cable companies are really evil - what harm would it be to let me watch some shows I recorded, while I'm STILL a paying customer!!!
Well, one problem is that, you apparently are not now paying Adelphia for the use of their dvr. If I misunderstood this (and you are still paying Adelphia in Flordia) I'm sorry. If my understanding is right, you may soon be getting a big bill ($500+) from them for this box.

So, let me ask you this quick question.. If I knew this was going to happen, could I have pulled the shows off the HD first using the SATA connection to an external HD? Or would the shows still be encrypted even after they were copied off?
I did read in another forum that some people were able to get the SATA and Firewire ports to work. I checked in my sara diag screens and the firewire port is unlocked.


No on the SATA - it is encrypted to the specific DVR. Maybe on the Firewire.

Actually...I should have made this clear initially. The vertical shift does not occur on HD content (720p and 1080i). Only on SD content (480i and 480p). I can only tell it happens when the picture is 16:9 and the top black bar is 1/2" bigger than the bottom black bar. Still think it's the TV?

You probably do not see the vertical shift on most stuff (try checking out a movie that is in Cinemascope, or some SD commercials on HD channels that are "letterboxed". Also if you get HDNet, the have test patterns (that will show overscan & centering) Tuesday mornings (last time I checked they were at 6:50AM). It is still most likely the TV. 1/2" difference is not particularly unusual (though it may be bothersome)

Dave,
I actually AM still paying adelphia...My roomate is still in Florida for the summer so I'm paying for the service anyway, so I was going to watch my shows, ship the unit back to my roomate and he would return it to adelphia. That way I would save the $10 monthly rental fee for the summer months. My roomate is renting an sa8300hd dvr also (all under my name).

I guess my only option here is to wait until the Fall when I go back to Florida and eat the $40 or so bucks in rental fees for the summer???

Yea, whatabout that firewire?? Is that encrypted?

I appreciate all your responses!

Best, Mike

Well, one problem is that, you apparently are not now paying Adelphia for the use of their dvr. If I misunderstood this (and you are still paying Adelphia in Flordia) I'm sorry. If my understanding is right, you may soon be getting a big bill ($500+) from them for this box.



No on the SATA - it is encrypted to the specific DVR. Maybe on the Firewire.

Dave,
I actually AM still paying adelphia...My roomate is still in Florida for the summer so I'm paying for the service anyway, so I was going to watch my shows, ship the unit back to my roomate and he would return it to adelphia. That way I would save the $10 monthly rental fee for the summer months. My roomate is renting an sa8300hd dvr also (all under my name).

I guess my only option here is to wait until the Fall when I go back to Florida and eat the $40 or so bucks in rental fees for the summer???

Yea, whatabout that firewire?? Is that encrypted?

I appreciate all your responses!

Best, Mike
As long as firewire is activated with your STB's current firmware and software, you should be able to dump DVR recordings or live TV to a DVHS deck or even a computer, although i'm not quite sure if the 8300HD works well with a firewire PC interface. As long as the content is not 5c flagged "copy never," then you will be able to use firewire- provided the box boots up on its proper cable system of course.

.....maybe vegggas will chime in with more detail than I can provide.....vegggas, as always, thanks so much for adding the technical explanation. I didn't even think about the encryption aspect. :)

Well, I swapped out my cable box last friday due to the 'digital noise' problems in the picture and audio. Last night while watching 'Lost' the same problem occured about three times during the broadcast.

So now I'm not sure there was actually a problem with the original box - maybe its the transmission itself, or maybe I have something effecting the signal quality intermittenly.

It does seem, however, that the 8300HD box is not good at recoverying from signal interruptions. If I watch/record something through the 8300HD the breakup lasts anywhere from 5-20 seconds. But if I'm watching the same thing through my TV's digital tuner - the picture/sound is only effected for about 1-2 seconds.

I'm not sure what other options I have at this point, other than having TW come out, yet again, to check the signal levels at my house.

Many other reports here have indicated very limited success using FW. The issue seems to be around finding drivers that will actually work correctly to allow a host pc to correctly negotiate communications with the 8300. The 8000 has shown far more success.

As long as firewire is activated with your STB's current firmware and software, you should be able to dump DVR recordings or live TV to a DVHS deck or even a computer, although i'm not quite sure if the 8300HD works well with a firewire PC interface. As long as the content is not 5c flagged "copy never," then you will be able to use firewire- provided the box boots up on its proper cable system of course.

There is in fact a problem with both in many cases. Adelphia (who I've been "working with" closely for some time, has duplicated the same specific issues both on my original 8300s, a swapped 8300, 8300's at their head end, and 8300s at the central location in NY. I see audio drops on virtually every single thing I record with the SA8300HD - as well as pixelation. I also see significant issues with the scheduling application. They've also been validated. When I find out more (I'm also working with SA) I'll post it here. The only thing I've got now is that they've specifically acknowledged virtually all of the issues I've reported, down to specific content, channels and timing.

Again, based on the fact that there is also some report of improvement (on the audio drop side) after adding the external Maxtor SATA2 drive, I believe that the SA8300HD has inefficient (or perhaps simply incapable) caching performance on the part of the embedded HD.

Well, I swapped out my cable box last friday due to the 'digital noise' problems in the picture and audio. Last night while watching 'Lost' the same problem occured about three times during the broadcast.

So now I'm not sure there was actually a problem with the original box - maybe its the transmission itself, or maybe I have something effecting the signal quality intermittenly.

It does seem, however, that the 8300HD box is not good at recoverying from signal interruptions. If I watch/record something through the 8300HD the breakup lasts anywhere from 5-20 seconds. But if I'm watching the same thing through my TV's digital tuner - the picture/sound is only effected for about 1-2 seconds.

I'm not sure what other options I have at this point, other than having TW come out, yet again, to check the signal levels at my house.

There is in fact a problem with both in many cases. Adelphia (who I've been "working with" closely for some time, has duplicated the same specific issues both on my original 8300s, a swapped 8300, 8300's at their head end, and 8300s at the central location in NY. I see audio drops on virtually every single thing I record with the SA8300HD - as well as pixelation. I also see significant issues with the scheduling application. They've also been validated. When I find out more (I'm also working with SA) I'll post it here. The only thing I've got now is that they've specifically acknowledged virtually all of the issues I've reported, down to specific content, channels and timing.

Again, based on the fact that there is also some report of improvement (on the audio drop side) after adding the external Maxtor SATA2 drive, I believe that the SA8300HD has inefficient (or perhaps simply incapable) caching performance on the part of the embedded HD.

What signal levels is your box seeing? A signal amp fixed similar problems for me.

Good idea, however:

1) Already have a very high quality balancing distribution amp - which Adelphia themselves validated extremely high signal strength as a result - and actually almost no amplification required.

2) Again - Adelphia THEMSELVES at THEIR LOCATION both at the local head end and at the NY location replicated virtually every issue.

When the MSO themselves recreate the issue(s) at multiple locations, I think we can effectively eliminate local infrastructure as being the culprit. To be honest, I've got kind of a love-hate thing going with the 8300. For SD - with the exception of a really crappy user interface and non-existent search - as well as a buggy EPG/Recording function - the dual tuner and capacity is really nice. For HD, it's been a real problem. I'm also quite unhappy that there are absolutely no plans for two way cablecard in Adelphia, meaning that the potential upcoming release of the Tivo S3 is no longer a viable option.

What signal levels is your box seeing? A signal amp fixed similar problems for me.

Good idea, however:

1) Already have a very high quality balancing distribution amp - which Adelphia themselves validated extremely high signal strength as a result - and actually almost no amplification required.


Have you checked the levels on your HD channels in diag mode? I agree it does sound like a local problem - but you should check anyway.

Though the box does have problems - HD breakup is not one of them - at least in Austin,TX Sara...

xnappo

Good idea, however:

1) Already have a very high quality balancing distribution amp - which Adelphia themselves validated extremely high signal strength as a result - and actually almost no amplification required.

xnappo is right - YOU should check levels on the SA8300 using it's diagnostic levels. The 8300 can also have levels that are too high! I wonder if perhaps that is your problem.

wmhjr,

Anything outside the range +10 to -10 is likely to cause problems. Since I and many others outside Adelphia do not have similar problems, it is unlikely it is the 8300 hardware. I don't know what software version Adelphia is using, but I would suspect that or something in the Adelphia distribution system is causing your probems. The fact that they can duplicate the problems really only tells you that it is not your specific 8300.

I guess I'm not communicating clearly. Please don't take this as an insult.

1) I've checked the signal strength myself - as has Adelphia. Many times. It is NOT signal strength. Period. The issues are being replicated here (PA), head end (PA), and NY.

2) If you take a look at the threads about adding external SATA2 storage to the 8300HD you'll see that it's absolutely not uncommon to see these issues with this device. Further, you'll see people clearly indicating that the addition of a faster, better caching/buffering SATA2 drive seemed to improve performance. Again, pointing to hw/sw performance and not video feed (though clearly there are issues there).

3) Sometimes when you rewind and then replay, the audio drop goes away. That means that the content was recorded fine. It means - without exception - that the 8300HD - regardless of signal strength - is having periodic issues playing back recorded content. Don't know if I can be more clear than that.

4) SA has agreed that there are issues.

5) There are also incidents of content recording, and then the device(s) failing to play them back.

6) There are further issues related to the scheduling algorythm.

Didn't want to get too specific, and I truly appreciate the effort to help. However, REST ASSURED - there are some issues with this device. It absolutely may depend in large part on the network (ie Adelphia network in this case) but items such as #3 certainly indicate design issues. In other words, the fact that it's on the Adelphia network could make a questionable situation a lot worse.

Let's face it, OK? This shouldn't be an emotional issue where people are tied to these devices. The fact is that this is a relatively low cost consumer grade device, and not of terribly high quality. It's honestly the cheapest device I've got - not nearly of the quality of anything else I have - and frankly not of equal quality to the other DVRs I've owned over the past 5-6 years. But, if they could get some of these things fixed, it would be OK until either the Tivo S3 releases and is supported (the cablecard question) or until Dish releases locals in HD in my area.

I guess I missed (or forgot) about the SATA element. There is no doubt SATA brings a lot to the plate, that is why there is a separate thread dealing with SATA issues.

I don't know where the "emotional issue" comment comes from. The fact is there are plenty of people with working 8300s and SATA drives, though perhaps not with Adelphia. :) Pointing that out does not make one emtionally attached to any piece of hardware or software.

IMHO, item #3 in no way indicates a "hardware" problem, but it certainly points to a "software" problem and that was all I was trying to get across. That may be mincing words to some, but the 8300 is just a bunch of A/V chipsets, etc., just like any other DVR. In my experience, it's the software that makes this type of product.

I guess I'm just a little confused as to what you are looking for in this thread. You post a comment/question and we respond with ideas. The next thing I see is we are being chastized for suggesting possible causes. :(

Maybe I'm reading something into your post, who knows?

DoubleDAZ, no chastizing - just frustration as people either don't seem to fully read or just don't understand the technology. Can't figure it out.

To be clear about "#3", I didnt' say it was completely (or even mostly) a hw problem. I said it was a design problem, and I totally agree that the sofware is suspect. Though it has not been deployed to consumers in general, Adelphia has deployed SARA 1.88.19.1 to my boxes while we're attempting to get closer to root cause on the issues.

The high frustration is that this has been going on for over a year, and even on this forum (though not on this thread) people on other providers have also reported/complained about the audio drop symptoms. Further, that the use cases I provided (specifically #3) completely eliminate signal strength from being anything near proximate cause. Signal strength cannot technically be related to some of the issues. Yet, even with all the evidence, validated and replicated by both Adelphia and SA, people here want to insist that it must be my specific units, etc. I honestly think that does a dis-service to others looking here. Just my 2cents.

To be more specific, if one is to accept that at least for "some" segment of the user population, the installation of the external Maxtor SATA2 extender improves the audio drop condition (even on non-Adelphia systems), then:

The issue is likely to be related to buffering performance of the disk subsystem, as the content stream from both the internal and external storage devices flow through the exact same (not just the same type, but the same actual pipes) processing system. Therefore, while not specifically proving a relationship with disk read performance and buffering, logic certainly points in that direction.

Sorry for the frustration - honestly, it's not personal. I appreciate the interest, but just don't know how to communicate effectively I guess. When the manufacturer, the provider, and myself - at FOUR different geographical locations - all find the same defects, what more does it take to prove that there are some issues?

My purpose for the comments in the thread was a response to another user who posted about experiencing some of the same issues. It was to provide feedback to him/her that it may in fact not be a defective unit, but instead a more systemic issue.

I guess I missed (or forgot) about the SATA element. There is no doubt SATA brings a lot to the plate, that is why there is a separate thread dealing with SATA issues.

I don't know where the "emotional issue" comment comes from. The fact is there are plenty of people with working 8300s and SATA drives, though perhaps not with Adelphia. :) Pointing that out does not make one emtionally attached to any piece of hardware or software.

IMHO, item #3 in no way indicates a "hardware" problem, but it certainly points to a "software" problem and that was all I was trying to get across. That may be mincing words to some, but the 8300 is just a bunch of A/V chipsets, etc., just like any other DVR. In my experience, it's the software that makes this type of product.

I guess I'm just a little confused as to what you are looking for in this thread. You post a comment/question and we respond with ideas. The next thing I see is we are being chastized for suggesting possible causes. :(

Maybe I'm reading something into your post, who knows?

I fully agree with your comments. I guess some of us were just offering ideas on what else to look at, not being privy to all that you, SA, and Adelphia have checked. Perhaps I didn't read your post enough, but I didn't see anything regarding specific signals levels. I saw some folks suggest that as a possible cause and, the way I read your post, you seemed to simply dismiss that as a possibility. I can now see why, but that wasn't evident to me initially. It sounds like you are saying that Adelphia has been able to reproduce the problem at their site using a different 8300/SATA setup and that SA has also been able to reproduce it at their site, again using yet a different 8300/SATA setup. Is that a correct read on my part? Do you know if all tests were done with the same software version, 1.88.11.1?

Anyway, maybe 1.88.19.1 will help pinpoint the cause, if not resolve the issue outright.

No problem. Some answers:

I did dismiss the signal strength issue out of hand because of previous checks, plus the fact that playback (when rewound) sometimes had audio drops and sometimes didn't - meaning that the content was recorded WITHOUT the audio drop. All the audio was there in many cases - it just doesn't always play back correctly.

Adelphia has been enable to reproduce at 2 different locations with specific content (we arranged a schedule matrix in advance, and recorded all the same content from 3 different locations). SA has apparently replicated "some" of it, but I'm not sure how much. I know exactly how much Adelphia has - just about 100%.

It's been reproduced most recently with the 1.88.19.1 - as a matter of fact, that's what the most intensive testing was done with, and it did not solve any of the issues - including the poor scheduling issue. LOTS of errors there.

All of these were done with standard default SA8300HDs - no SATA2 drives. The information about the SATA2 performance improvement came from this site on another thread.



I fully agree with your comments. I guess some of us were just offering ideas on what else to look at, not being privy to all that you, SA, and Adelphia have checked. Perhaps I didn't read your post enough, but I didn't see anything regarding specific signals levels. I saw some folks suggest that as a possible cause and, the way I read your post, you seemed to simply dismiss that as a possibility. I can now see why, but that wasn't evident to me initially. It sounds like you are saying that Adelphia has been able to reproduce the problem at their site using a different 8300/SATA setup and that SA has also been able to reproduce it at their site, again using yet a different 8300/SATA setup. Is that a correct read on my part? Do you know if all tests were done with the same software version, 1.88.11.1?

Anyway, maybe 1.88.19.1 will help pinpoint the cause, if not resolve the issue outright.

I tried looking for this one, but don't see it. I was watching a live program and had to pause for a moment, then continued playing from that point. There were like 15 minutes left of the "live" program, but I was playing from like 25 minutes.

Then, when the "live" program finished, what I was playing stopped and changed to what the "live" channel was showing. I couldn't finished what I was watching.

Is this OK, what is your advice?

I tried looking for this one, but don't see it. I was watching a live program and had to pause for a moment, then continued playing from that point. There were like 15 minutes left of the "live" program, but I was playing from like 25 minutes.

Then, when the "live" program finished, what I was playing stopped and changed to what the "live" channel was showing. I couldn't finished what I was watching.

Is this OK, what is your advice?
It depends on what was happening at the time. If the program was a scheduled recording, then this is the normal behavior. See the first post for work arounds for this behavior and/or wait for version 1.88.X.X. If the program was not being recorded or if you had selected the program to be recorded while you were watching it, then this should not have happened. In this case, you should try to repeat the exact steps and post your results. Good Luck!

I am new to this thread, so I apologize if the answer is contained somewhere in the 98 pages, but here it goes.

Strange problem. I just moved from Vegas to Phoenix and now have a 8300HD that is causing me some distress. It is having a hard time recording long sporting events. For example, tonight I was recording the Suns game. I watched the first quarter, put it on pause and left for dinner. When I came back, it was still recording. I began watching the game from where I paused it. I then fast forward through commericals and half time and "caught up" with (what I thought) was real time. The screen froze and it wouldn't let me fast forward. It was also at the end of the "green" record bar (but it was still "recording). This occurred with about 20 seconds to go in the third quarter. Then I hit live and the game was in the fourth quarter with about 2:00 minutes to go. I watched the remaining 2:00 minutes and then stopped the recording and saved it. The "saved" program was still missing the above-referenced time. THis is the second time this has happened. It happened once during a baseball game.

Any insight?

I suspect it has something to do with the buffer. I know vegggas kind of does the same thing, pausing, but I don't know if you can pause past the 1 hour buffer, which is what I suspect you did. Maybe he will see this and provide his thoughts. I've recorded plenty of long sporting events, 3-4 hours or more, without any problems, but I've never paused them for very long.

Yeah, I was thinking that might be it. Although you would think that it would still be recording "content" apart from the buffer (while paused). SO, even if the buffer gives out (it unpauses, etc.) it will still have the content recorded....


I suspect it has something to do with the buffer. I know vegggas kind of does the same thing, pausing, but I don't know if you can pause past the 1 hour buffer, which is what I suspect you did. Maybe he will see this and provide his thoughts. I've recorded plenty of long sporting events, 3-4 hours or more, without any problems, but I've never paused them for very long.

I think it might be a problem if you pause the live program vs selecting the recording from the list after it starts recording and pausing that.

It depends on what was happening at the time. If the program was a scheduled recording, then this is the normal behavior. See the first post for work arounds for this behavior and/or wait for version 1.88.X.X. If the program was not being recorded or if you had selected the program to be recorded while you were watching it, then this should not have happened. In this case, you should try to repeat the exact steps and post your results. Good Luck!

This was not a scheduled recording, this was watching "live" TV. I just rewinded for a certain part and continued playing from there...just that. Then happened what I explained.

When the time came for the next program, what I was watching stopped and changed to the next program, without being able to jump back. Lost the final 15 or 20 minutes.

This was not a scheduled recording, this was watching "live" TV. I just rewinded for a certain part and continued playing from there...just that. Then happened what I explained.

When the time came for the next program, what I was watching stopped and changed to the next program, without being able to jump back. Lost the final 15 or 20 minutes.

I had the same thing happen last night, but it was only a 30 minute sitcom. I started watching from the beginning, but my wife came in 7 or 8 minutes late so I "rewound" the live program to the beginning. I didn't "catchup" during commericals. But at 9 p.m. it stopped playing and jumped to the next show that was starting on the channel. I think whatever program update got pushed last time has some major issues. I've had more "buggy" things happen in the last 2 or 3 weeks than ever before.

I had the same thing happen last night, but it was only a 30 minute sitcom. I started watching from the beginning, but my wife came in 7 or 8 minutes late so I "rewound" the live program to the beginning. I didn't "catchup" during commericals. But at 9 p.m. it stopped playing and jumped to the next show that was starting on the channel. I think whatever program update got pushed last time has some major issues. I've had more "buggy" things happen in the last 2 or 3 weeks than ever before.
Zebras23 and Julio Bro!

You can try rebooting the box. Sometimes that corrects the problem. See the first post for ways to reboot.

Please excuse me if I am out of place, but does anyone else have 4 fast forward and reverse speeds now? I have not read all 99 pages as of yet.

Please excuse me if I am out of place, but does anyone else have 4 fast forward and reverse speeds now? I have not read all 99 pages as of yet.

Yes. 4-8-16-32x speed

Yes. 4-8-16-32x speed

TYVM, the wife lost it yesterday when her General Hospital went from begining to end in a couple of seconds. I noticed that before this update we would catch an odd "Super FF" every 30 or so times we used it and wondered why it wasn't implimented as a feature.

Please excuse me if I am out of place, but does anyone else have 4 fast forward and reverse speeds now? I have not read all 99 pages as of yet.

Yes there are systems getting this highly anticipated (1.88.xx.xxx) release. It apparently showed up yesterday in the Buffalo, NY area. We've had it in Rochester for about a month. The major feature is the ability to "Play from Beginning" for a program currently being recorded + no "Kick Out to Live" when the program ends. I also note that the front panel inputs are now active (though that may have been there on an earlier release).

By the way SDB, you know it helps the community such as this to know where you are located - cause things are quite different with different cable systems - so PLEASE DO NOT BE SO SECRETIVE and add YOUR LOCATION to your profile.

Thanks ;)

Done!

Oh and another thing, my EPG looks darker for some reason as well. Programming looks fine but all screens in the EPG look "dim".

Done!

Oh and another thing, my EPG looks darker for some reason as well. Programming looks fine but all screens in the EPG look "dim".

So are you on Adelphia (about to be TW) then?

I thought I noticed something similar with the Guide screen, but I did some other things around the same time that I thought had impacted that. It could be that the Guide is at a different scan rate (480i, 1080i, etc) than it used to be.

Could you check the SARA version number? (On front panel press & hold SELECT on front panel till mail logo comes on, then press INFO and use VOL+, VOL- controls to navigate to SOFTWARE VERSION screen: I suspect you have something like 1.88.17.a100.

So are you on Adelphia (about to be TW) then?

Yes

Could you check the SARA version number? (On front panel press & hold SELECT on front panel till mail logo comes on, then press INFO and use VOL+, VOL- controls to navigate to SOFTWARE VERSION screen: I suspect you have something like 1.88.17.a100.

I will attempt to do so this evening, but I have to make sure it doesn't interrupt watching Buffalo's victory :)

Yes
I will attempt to do so this evening, but I have to make sure it doesn't interrupt watching Buffalo's victory :)

During the commercial then (won't take long + the sound will still be there and you can see the game in the background if you press SELECT again).

Our local RochesterHDTV (http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/viewtopic.php?p=10851#10851) site has someone from Cheetowaga reporting the version as: 1.88.19.1

...Cheetowaga reporting the version as: 1.88.19.1

Same version here. My EPG is dimmer without a doubt and also smaller graphics now. No big deal, it just looks weird. I'm also noticing something else odd tonight while watching the Hockey game. My box is faster in HD watching the game on OLN than my analog cable station (can hear it in the audio delay about a second and a half). Isn't that backwards?

Yes. 4-8-16-32x speedI could be wrong, but I believe the FF/REW speeds are now 4x, 10x, 30x, and 128x (SARA 1.88.19.1). It just took right at 28 seconds to zip through a 1 hour recording using FF4 (3600/28=128) and 2 minutes at FF3 (3600/120=30).

Hi all,
I have had my 8300 for just over a year (54 weeks). No major problems, just a couple minor annoyances (didn't record The Office a couple of times). I leave it on all of the time. Tonight, the screen went blank. The channel guide and info still appear though. Also, the PIP source works too. Any suggestions for retreiving the picture?

PS. I noticed that tonight the list of recorded shows started to have shows that I deleted and weren't on the STB for a while.

Try a "hard" reboot and see if that helps.

Problems seems to be fixed. It must have been the hard reboot. Thanks Dave.

No problem, uiucsb, glad it helped. I don't often have problems, but when I do, I don't spend a lot of time these days trying to figure them out, I just do a hard reboot and press on. It always makes me wonder though just how many 8300's have been returned when a hard reboot would have fixed the problem. Sure beats disconnecting everything and running down the the local cableco for an unneeded replacement, not to mention losing your recordings. :)

Hi everyone,

I typed this message in another thread which isn't getting much traffic/replies. Someone recommended I try posting in the SA threads. I'll look forward to any thoughts on this post! Thanks.

(as I was typing this reply and checking signal levels, I came up with an important question...when checking signal strength on the 8300HD and 8000HD, I have two readings - one for "Tuner1" and one for "FDC". On digital channels, I have a reading for each. On analog channels "Tuner1" says "analog" and "FDC" shows a number still. Which one of these is the actual signal strength? Or is it both somehow?).

thanks for the posts DoubleDAZ. In short, I'm basically trying to get rid of DirecTv. I currently have both services, mainly because trees in my back yard block the HD sats for DirecTV. I started by adding OTA antenna for HD, but then obviously realized I wanted ESPN, INHD, Discovery, etc. So, I added Comcast for the HD. Another reason I kept DirecTv was for Tivo - I like it much better than the DVR software, and the “standard” channels look much better than through cable. And the final reason for keeping DirecTv was for Sunday Ticket.

Right now, I'm canceling Sunday Ticket (just don't have the time anymore). So, the only thing that left me hanging onto DirecTv was Tivo and being able to have an 8000HD plus a Dual-tuner DirecTivo in the same room. After giving it much thought, it just didnt' seem worth it anymore to keep DirecTv.

I have added an 8300HD to my bedroom (NOT an HD set...just a basic set, but they told me they didn't have any 8300 standard DVR's at the time). The analog channels, especially CBS, are awful - even on my 27" TV. But I think this is something I can live with for now - I'm hoping to buy a 32-36" widescreen TV for the bedroom sometime this year, so that will get rid of those problems so I can watch the HD networks.

Right now, the way the home is wired is pretty whacky. I've added a couple wire runs myself, and have the following setup (after removing DirecTv, multiswitches, diplexers, etc) – signal readings to follow:

1) Cable from the street into a 3-way splitter.
- The "strong" output goes to a run that leads directly to my cable modem with zero splits inbetween. My modem strength is around 0 or -1 regularly, so that's working great. We added this run.
- One of the other outputs goes around my house in a 100' run that leads directly to the wall plate behind my main TV in the family room. It is used for cable only, no splits other than the wall plate, and goes directly into an 8000HD. We added this run.
- The final output has a 3” run that goes into another 3-way splitter

2) The second 3 way splitter:
- one output into home pre-wiring into a back bedroom in the basement – from wall directly into TV
- one output into home pre-wiring into the main basement room, from wall into 8000HD
- one output into home pre-wiring into master bedroom, from wall into 8300HD

SIGNAL READINGS:
Modem: 0 to –1 regularly. Working great

Basement 8000HD:
Channel 252/ESPN HD: Tuner 1: -11 FDC: -5
Channel 227/INHD2: Tuner 1: -10 FDC: -5
Channel 4/NBC: Tuner 1: Analog FDC: -5

Family Room 8000HD:
Channel 252/ESPN HD: Tuner 1: -6 FDC: -1
Channel 227/INHD2: Tuner 1: -5 FDC: -1
Channel 4/NBC: Tuner 1: Analog FDC: -1

Master Bedroom 8300HD:
Channel 252/ESPN HD: Tuner 1: -15 FDC: -7
Channel 227/INHD2: Tuner 1: -13 FDC: -7
Channel 4/NBC: Tuner 1: Analog FDC: -7


Another “future-proofing” issue I have is making sure my signals are good enough in those 3 locations to add the Series 3 Tivos when they become available (and I believe this means I need to lease 2 cable cards for each location from Comcast).

Anyway, if you could let me know what you think of all this, I would greatly appreciate it!

FYI, in Santa Barbara, CA, my 8300 is on 1.87.27.1
On pg 5, my S/N on discoveryHD is 29-30 dB

First, the 8300 is much better than the 8000. If it's HD, then move it to the location you watch the most often.
Second, FDC is the level of the Forward Data Carrier. This is where the STB gets all the data and request information. This is relation to the RDC, which is the Return Data Carrier, where commands are sent back to the headend.
[important note here - levels in db are expressed as power levels. An increase of each 3db equates to twice the power level, and a decrease of 3db equates to half the power level. 0db is flat and -3db is at half the power of 0db. -6db is half of -3db, so about 1/4 of 0db. It's a logrithmic scale with a point of anything less than -10 being almost unusable.]
FDC levels should be about 0, with -5 being ok, As the signal gets weaker, due to cabling issues in the home, the chance of getting corrupted data increases. RDC levels dictate how strong the STB has to work to get back to the headend. 35 to 40 is normal. Anything above 40 indicates that some problems, and the STB will get much hotter trying to overcome the losses back to the headend. At over 50, there is a severe possibility of corruption or clipping of the data, but an even greater possibility of problems due to the STB generating heat and running at max output levels continously.
For digital tuner levels, typcally 0 to -5 are ideal. -6 to -10 may have some minor issues. -10 and beyond are going to have problems with tiling and signal degradation. Anything analog in these ranges will look like ass, and it would look much better in the positive range, from +5 down to about-2 or -3.

Looking though your notes, your bedroom location has some serious issues. You should reconsider your wiring schemes. Your Modem and STB are similar devices with similar power level requirements. If you are unbalancing you splitters and reducing the signal by two different 3 way splitters (-5.5 + -5.5) you are reducing your signal levels by -11 already before taking into account wire and connectors.
I would replace the multiple splitters with ONE balanced 5-way splitter. This would bring up the levels dramatically everywhere, but only reduce the modem a small amount. The cascading of the two splitters is reducing the signal by at least -5.5db to the second splitter before it even gets split off.

vegggas

One comment to add to veggas' EXCELLENT (as usual) note: Many, if not all, cable companies will make the splitter changes and even add amplifiers if needed at no charge. I know that TW does here in Rochester. I'd suggest getting them to do it, rather than going to the expense of purchasing new splitters, etc. It may well be that the proper amplifier is what is needed. If you do replace stuff make sure that the splitters are rated for at least 1 GHz.

thank you for all the great information!! Appreciate it. I will take your advice and try to change splitters. I did the "re-wire" after shutting down DirecTv with splitters I had on hand. I'll call Comcast to come out and see what they can do for me. If I happen to have a 5-way splitter in my box of "goodies", I'll try it on my own.

Looking at my RDC levels, I have the following:
Family Room: 40
Basement: 46
Bedroom: 45

Looks like those are all borderline to bad.

I do plan on upgrading the 8000HD's to 8300HD's as soon as we're done watching the shows on them - and definitely before the fall TV season. I also plan on adding a SATA drive to a family room 8300HD once I have it in place.

One more question: what kind of amps do cable companies add? My cable junction box is outside of my home with no power outlets nearby. Are there amps that can be added at each set, or some without a need for AC power?

Thanks again!

I think you will be fine with just a 5-way splitter. Pick one up at a local home store, rat shak or something similar. Just make sure it's rated to 1Ghz, and not "gold" looking, as these tend to be of low quality and flake up rather quickly.
Each cable co has different services for home wiring - after all it's YOUR wiring once it passes the point of demarcation (at the entry point of a single family dwelling). Some will charge you for parts, labor and a service fee, others will have a monthly internal wiring maintainance fee, while others will absorb costs with higher average monthly fees. You can save yourself the aggrevation and time by doing it yourself.

vegggas

ok, I debated about posting this as I really don't want to seem helpless...but it appears that I am! I can't locate a 5-way splitter online anywhere. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thank you!

You can get a 6-way and terminate the open outlet.

Partsexpress: 6-way splitter (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=182-739)

Bill, was that link supposed to be pointing to the Open House H806?

The problem is that these multi-way splitters are all essentially 2 way splitters cascaded - so signal reduction will be just as high as what you have now. I'd still suggest seeing what cable will do for you for free. It sounds like your monthly cable bill is high (with DVR, digital cable, Internet, etc. ) It is in their financial interest to see that things are correct. Particularly as you NOW have services (Internet, digital cable) that depend on correct levels. I strongly suspect that you now need an amplifier, and these need to be two-way. Cable does not want you screwing around with the wrong stuff (just means more service problems in the future). If they tell you that you will have to pay, THEN tell them that you will fix it yourself - but at least give them a chance.

You can get a 6-way and terminate the open outlet.

Partsexpress: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3


There are no 6 way splitters, only 2, 3, 4 & 8 way there at Parts Express!

thanks everyone. I'll make a call into Comcast and see what they'll do for me. Thanks for the replies.

I'm glad you took my advice and cross-posted to get some more comments. If nothing else, at least you know the piggy-backed 3-ways are not the best solution. Hopefully, Comcast will install a 5-way and you'll be good to go. Don't forget to le us know. :)

As davehancock mentions, multiway splitters are usually just internal splitters, but they do remove connector losses associated with fittings and bad jumper cables between splitters, that could increase the losses. Also a balanced splitter will evenly distribute the signal, where an unbalanced will higher losses for the output legs over the through leg. If your first splitter is unbalanced with the least loss going to the modem, swap that output with the one that goes to the other splitter, to reduce the chain of loss between devices. Your modem should not have any problems with a few db loss, since it's so high.
You only have 4 active devices and a 5th basic TV, so you may also consider a 4-way splitter with one output split for your two least important devices or off the modem line. My original concern was that the first unbalanced splitter (pass through going to the modem) is reducing the rest of the signal for the STB's by a few db's. The modem should be fine with the same ranges as the STB's, so they could all be mixed equally.

vegggas

I'm glad I crossposted too! Appreciate all the information/suggestions, etc.

If not today, sometime this week, I will attempt 2 things. First, I will switch the cables on the first splitter to have the output with the smallest lost going to the second splitter. Second, I will contact Comcast and see what kind of splitters/assistance they can provide. As soon as I have made a change or have Comcast out, I will be sure to repost what was done and the signal strength results.

Thanks!

Just a thought. I heard this from the installer of my cable. He installed phone, modem and three TVs. He said before he started that the objective was always to have as few splits as possible. He aimed for, and got, one splitter and five long runs to each device. It took a lot of coax, but the signal strength is great at each point. So, I have one cable coming into the house and a single splitter outputting five cables.

I fixed the link to the 6-way splitter in post # 2967 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7768751&&#post7768751)

I'm presently using my SA8300HD's Output 2 to go to a combo DVD/VCR for making a VCR tape by using the "Copy to VCR" function.

I'm thinking of buying a DVR-Recorder, can I also use Output 1 to that new unit and use "Copy to VCR" to make either a VCR or a DVD copy OR even both at the same time?

I'm presently using my SA8300HD's Output 2 to go to a combo DVD/VCR for making a VCR tape by using the "Copy to VCR" function.

I'm thinking of buying a DVR-Recorder, can I also use Output 1 to that new unit and use "Copy to VCR" to make either a VCR or a DVD copy OR even both at the same time?The "Copy to VCR" function only works on Output 2. Output 1 is the full screen and Output 2 is the PIP screen (Copy to VCR). The "Copy to VCR" function will work with a DVR-Recorder if it is hooked up to Output 2. If you hook up the DVR-Recorder to Output 1, it will record whatever is on the full screen instead of what is on the PIP screen (Copy to VCR).

The "Copy to VCR" function only works on Output 2. Output 1 is the full screen and Output 2 is the PIP screen (Copy to VCR). The "Copy to VCR" function will work with a DVR-Recorder if it is hooked up to Output 2. If you hook up the DVR-Recorder to Output 1, it will record whatever is on the full screen instead of what is on the PIP screen (Copy to VCR).

Thanks for the quick reply!!

So let me see if I understand- If I hook a DVR-Recorder to Output 2, it could do the vast majority of my copying with the "Copy to VCR" function.

Then I could hook the VCR to Output 1 and make a tape as long as I was watching whatever I wanted to tape.....either real-time TV or by playing something on my 8300HD "List" of previously recorded programs.

Did I get it right?

The "Copy to VCR" function only works on Output 2. Output 1 is the full screen and Output 2 is the PIP screen (Copy to VCR). The "Copy to VCR" function will work with a DVR-Recorder if it is hooked up to Output 2. If you hook up the DVR-Recorder to Output 1, it will record whatever is on the full screen instead of what is on the PIP screen (Copy to VCR).

And for many of us the signal sucks using this mode so we can't record but more importantly pipe a recorded program to another TV.

From the recent action of the cable companies, I wouldn't doubt is they did that intentionally.

Thanks for the quick reply!!

So let me see if I understand- If I hook a DVR-Recorder to Output 2, it could do the vast majority of my copying with the "Copy to VCR" function.

Then I could hook the VCR to Output 1 and make a tape as long as I was watching whatever I wanted to tape.....either real-time TV or by playing something on my 8300HD "List" of previously recorded programs.

Did I get it right?Yes, that is correct.

Also, you could move the cables whenever you wanted to make a tape using the "Copy to VCR" function.

And for many of us the signal sucks using this mode so we can't record but more importantly pipe a recorded program to another TV.

From the recent action of the cable companies, I wouldn't doubt is they did that intentionally.

I've seen people say how bad their "Copy to VCR" function works for a long time and never even thought that it might be to discourage people from hooking up a second TV!!! (And I'm with Adelphia and didn't think the other Cable companies could be as bad as them!!!)

The "Copy to VCR" bug everyone is talking about was introduced unknowingly by SA in, I think, 1.87.19a. It was fixed, unknowingly by SA in 1.87.27 and later versions. When SA was asked about this problem, they were not aware of the issue, since it was not repeatable on any of their curent versions. I had to have the cable co roll back the code to even see that the problem once existed. The reason it may still exist on some systems is that the cable co is still using it's last known "Stable" version of software and has not verified stability and compatibility for any new versions it has recieved.

vegggas

The "Copy to VCR" bug everyone is talking about was introduced unknowingly by SA in, I think, 1.87.19a. It was fixed, unknowingly by SA in 1.87.27 and later versions. When SA was asked about this problem, they were not aware of the issue, since it was not repeatable on any of their curent versions. I had to have the cable co roll back the code to even see that the problem once existed. The reason it may still exist on some systems is that the cable co is still using it's last known "Stable" version of software and has not verified stability and compatibility for any new versions it has recieved.

vegggas

If it was introduced unknowingly by SA in 1.87.19a, it would imply that it's not a plot by the cable companies to hamper the use of 2 TVs, unless they don't want to fix it since it suits their purpose.....

If it was introduced unknowingly by SA in 1.87.19a, it would imply that it's not a plot by the cable companies to hamper the use of 2 TVs, unless they don't want to fix it since it suits their purpose.....

:eek: How dare inSINuate that angelic cable companies are conspiring to make you pay a monthly fee for an extra box. Shame shame shame! ;)

They are your friend in the digital universe.

The "Copy to VCR" bug everyone is talking about was introduced unknowingly by SA in, I think, 1.87.19a. It was fixed, unknowingly by SA in 1.87.27 and later versions. When SA was asked about this problem, they were not aware of the issue, since it was not repeatable on any of their curent versions. I had to have the cable co roll back the code to even see that the problem once existed. The reason it may still exist on some systems is that the cable co is still using it's last known "Stable" version of software and has not verified stability and compatibility for any new versions it has recieved.

vegggas

How many years will it take to fix this?

It was fixed, unknowingly by SA in 1.87.27 and later versions.Did you just miss this? :D

He's just bitter and/or paranoid. He thinks that Time Warner, Comcast, Cox, Sprint and SA are all the same company and are out to get him to buy more services. Apparently he didn't see the part that said that SA didn't even know there was a bug, and that it was "fixed" before anyone even noticed there was a problem. By the time I had my talks with SA In Jan, the software had been "fixed" for almost a year in SA labs.

vegggas

Guys- I know I am probably asking something that is answered somewhere within these 100 pages- but after reading for 2 hours- I figured I'd just ask-

Got the SA HD 8300 today and it is hooked up via HDMI to my Sammi Plasma (s50/53)- right away the tech couldn't get a picture- told him I didn't think that my TVs HDMI read 480i (i base this off the set-up documents showing 480p, 720p, and 1080i for HDMI- so I assume it doesn't support it- but I guess it could be just stating that these input levels are best under HDMI)-
We hooked up component- no signal
Finally I hooked up coax- and he got to go into set-up- we picked 480p, 720p, and 1080i- wide screen.
Went back to HDMI- it worked and everything looked great- HD was 1080i- and I think SD was 480p-

Came back after finishing the work day- unit reverted back to 480i- and now even after I go into set-up and switch things back to HDMI compatable (480p, 720p, 1080i)- the unit reverts back to 480i.

All I want to do is watch HD on HD and 480p on SD-

can anyone help to make this happen on one connection??

Thanks a ton- current frustration level is 15 out of 10!!!

I'm having a problem getting a full screen image on my Plasma through my E80H recorder. I have my SA-8300 to the TV via HDMI. I have tried S-video and composite (output-2) to the DVD recorder. I can look at the cable (HDMI) image (DiscoveryHD) and it's 16:9, but when I switch TV input to DVD, I get bars top and bottom. I've tried setting the E80H on 16:9 and 4:3, with same image appearing.

It seems I should be able to have HD video go through the E80H and see it full screen. Is the Plasma downconverting to the E80H and messing up the resolution? Do I need to turn off the 1080i option in the 8300? I know I can record 1080i (other than to the DVR), but I should be able to record 480i.

Blarkin,
I don't remember my problems from a year ago in full detail, but I remember having a pure green screen when dealing with what formats to send from the 8300 to my Sammy DLP with HDMI. (I think i posted my problems somewhere here on AVS forum). Anyay, since my tv is 720p, i have the 8300 just pass through the 720 and converst all SD to 1080i. I don't know how that info will help, but perhaps it will.

Blarkin68,

After you have everything setup correctly, reboot the SA HD 8300 by unplugging it and then plugging it back in (Note: this is a regular reboot not a hard reboot, both are described in the first post of this thread.) This should keep the SA HD 8300 from reverting back to its previous settings. Good Luck!

Did you just miss this? :D

No, because it s is NOT FIXED!

He's just bitter and/or paranoid. He thinks that Time Warner, Comcast, Cox, Sprint and SA are all the same company and are out to get him to buy more services. Apparently he didn't see the part that said that SA didn't even know there was a bug, and that it was "fixed" before anyone even noticed there was a problem. By the time I had my talks with SA In Jan, the software had been "fixed" for almost a year in SA labs.

vegggas

Not bitter or paranoid. It is the cable companies that are paranoid. The unit has not been fixed for more than a year now. Quit making lame excuses.

Not bitter or paranoid. It is the cable companies that are paranoid. The unit has not been fixed for more than a year now. Quit making lame excuses.
Mines been fixed since January/February. Many others around the country are fixed too. Anyone running software written after version 1.87.23 does not have the problem. BTW, I looked it up, and with 1.87.23 and later, the problem no longer existed. I incorrectly posted earlyer that it was fixed in 1.87.27, but researched and found the problem went away much faster.
Now if Sprint can only fix my damn static phone lines or give me DSL over 150k...

vegggas

I don't know where you get that, but you are entitled to your opinion. It IS fixed, the software just hasn't been released yet for a variey of reasons, none of which are due to cableco paranoia, at least not regarding "Copy To VCR". :)

I think the point is that it wasn't the cableco's who broke it and the cableco's don't have anything to do with fixing it, other than releasing new software when it passes their testing. There have been so many problems with newer versions and cableco's are just now releasing 1.88.x.x versions. We are scheduled to get ours (1.88.19.1 I think) sometime this month and I assume Las Vegas will also get it shortly.

IMHO, I don't see what difference it really makes. If cableco's were actually paranoid about it, they'd simply ask SA to take the feature out or make it a cableco option. What would you do/say if the option were not there to begin with? You can still record something to VCR, you just have to record it while it is playing. That might be a PIA, but it is still an option if it means that much to you. If it were up to me, I'd much rather they concentrate on OCAP, etc., and not spend any time at all on "Copy To VCR", but that's just me.

Ok, now I'm lost. If you are both in Las Vegas, how is it that one is fixed and the other isn't?

Ok, now I'm lost. If you are both in Las Vegas, how is it that one is fixed and the other isn't?
Do you really have to ask? :rolleyes:
A local release is imminent, although they have had to scrap the last few due to incompatibity issues.

vegggas

The "Copy to VCR" function only works on Output 2. Output 1 is the full screen and Output 2 is the PIP screen (Copy to VCR). The "Copy to VCR" function will work with a DVR-Recorder if it is hooked up to Output 2. If you hook up the DVR-Recorder to Output 1, it will record whatever is on the full screen instead of what is on the PIP screen (Copy to VCR).

Do you mean all I have to do is use another output to get a watchable picture is change outputs..... that will get rid of jaggies on cpy?

1 yr of asking a dozen cox people and many posts up here.
Ive got to try this
Thanks

Do you really have to ask? :rolleyes:
A local release is imminent, although they have had to scrap the last few due to incompatibity issues.

vegggas

He's in a cone of silence.

HOw long, HOw long must we sing this song,..... HOw long?

Hey Vegggas and I are really friends here, but we can't always agree on everything. And I'm jealous because he gets things fixed and little o me gets scraps. And I really despise Sprint as a company and am really mad that my heros at COX are doing business with them.

But truly, the copy to vcr is real important to me because I love Dish's agile modulated boxes and wish Cox could do something similar. It was working fine for us for about a month and then they broke it. Smells of Microsoft to me.

Do you mean all I have to do is use another output to get a watchable picture is change outputs..... that will get rid of jaggies on cpy?

1 yr of asking a dozen cox people and many posts up here.
Ive got to try this
Thanks
If you change from output 2, I am not sure you will be seeing what is in the PIP screen ("copy to VCR" function). You may just see whatever is on the main screen not what is on the PIP screen. I haven't tried this so I am not sure what will happen. If you try some of the other outputs let us know what happens.

tenguru,

Using another output will probably get rid of the jaggies, but you will not be able to use the Copy To VCR function to record. You simply play what you want to record and record it manually while it is playing. You lose the ability to watch something else while it is recording.

vegggas,

I thought of that, but the way you made it sound was like everyone had a fixed version. ;)

foghorn2,

You are right. If you don't have that software, then it is not fixed for you. But, I still don't understand the paranoia and conspiracy theories. It is fixed in newer software and you will eventually get it, and it still wasn't broken by any cableco. Obviously I missed some inside humor between you and vegggas. :)

Anyway, what's the deal with Sprint? Have I misssed something?