Dave,
Did you add the "disk defrag" to the first post.No, I didn't, probably because I don't recall seeing any follow-up discussion about it. I assume the instructions are still:

To defrag the drive (1.88.x.x):
Set the DVR's MAIN channel and PIP channel to non-bufferable channels, such as a music channel, so that the drive is not being used.
Wait a few moments to verify that hard disk activity stops (listen).
Press the Power button on the front of the STB to turn the unit off, then wait.
The drive should start defragging after about 5 minutes of inactivity.
NOTE: The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated. For maximum efficiency, consider turning off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot (VOL-, VOL +, INFO) and leave the STB powered off until you hear it go into defrag mode, then just leave it off while you go to work, to bed, etc.

I'm not sure that you have to go a non-bufferable channel, as I do, but that about sums it up.

vegggas

Okay, it's been added to all 3 sites I post to.

vegggas,

I'm not sure what the bold highlighted part of the instructions means:NOTE: The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated. For maximum efficiency, consider turning off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot (VOL-, VOL +, INFO) and leave the STB powered off until you hear it go into defrag mode, then just leave it off while you go to work, to bed, etc.

Has any forum member with Cox in Fairfax Co. Virginia got the SARA firmware update to makes the 1394 ports active on their HD8300. I swapped out my older HD8300 for a new one that the tech at the Cox Herndon office thought would support 1394, but it still has the older firmware. I then requested a new firmware download (a couple of days ago), but it hasn't happened yet. My 8300 has 1.87.xxx firmware and its my understanding the 1394 came in with the 1.88.xxx version.

Ron Jones

I'm all for Tivo defending their patents, as I've said many times (if you'd read), just don't expect everyone else to pay licensing fees if they think they can come up with another way of getting the job done and don't bash proigrammers for doing things a different way.

If there was another way of getting the job done, then there would be no problem here. Patents are supposed to cover a specific method of functionality. If there's another way to skin the cat, you're in the clear, and can do whatever you want to do without fear of patent infringement.

I'll even defend Tivo against those who believe many of these features (other than the VCR-like features) fall under the general use clause (or whatever it's called) and shouldn't be subject to a patent in the first place.

Well, there was plenty of reivew of the patents in question during the TiVo vs. EchoStar trial by lots and lots of lawyers and judges, and you know what ? The majority of their patented assertions stood. A few were knocked down, but the key features and methods they had patented stood.

And I'll dredge up any crap I feel like, thank you very much. When you become a Moderator here, you can try to censor me if you like, but until then, just go away. I don't know how you figure I was ever wrong. All I've ever said is that many features are patented by Tivo. If that's wrong, I'd like to know what's right.

And when you get moderator priviledges here, you can tell me what to do. Otherwise, I'll be staying here as long as I like.

My problem with you, Dave, is that whenever someone points out a shortcoming of this box (and there are many), your first knee-jerk reaction to the problem is that "Tivo's got that patented, WAH!". Even though in another post in this thread you stated YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TIVO HAS PATENTED. How can you argue that the 8300 blows due to TiVo patents when you have no idea what you're talking about ? Sounds like unwarranted TiVo-bashing to me. Get a clue.

No, he is not wrong. I was recording live tv and timeshifting it long before Tivo.
These patents are too generic and Tivo is just living off lawsuits with their stupid patents. "work their asses off", RIGHT :rolleyes:

Wow. You must have been the most popular person on your block. I bet the people came from miles around to watch the amazing foghorn2 perform the miracle of timeshifting.

Getting back on topic... The patents in question were just put under intense scrutiny in the TiVo vs. EchoStar trial. If the patents in question were bogus because they were too general, or there was prior art, they would have been invalidated. Since they stood, I'm going to go ahead and assume that they're valid patents. You can believe whatever you want, but those of us living in the world of reality see these patents of justified and valid.

TiVo is NOT sitting on their patents and taking anyone to court who looks like they're doing something DVR-ish. They're selling a product and service based upon a technology they invented. They deserve a fair place in the marketplace to sell their wares. Allowing anyone to copy or sell knockoffs of their technology undercuts their very business model, and sets a dangerous precedent in the business world. If knockoffs were allowed here in the US marketplace (Chinese piracy and knockoffs typically stay overseas) no one would want to spent a dime on R & D, because as soon as they put something in stores, they're would be 10 copies of it instantly and their investment would have been all for naught.

This is not NTP sitting on their asses, waiting to sue Research In Motion for the Blackberry, and holding them hostage for $600million.

If you can't see the difference between TiVo's position, and NTP's, you really should read up a bit on patents and the law before you start spouting off here.

You may now re-commence waving your SciAtl 8300 HD DVR POS pom-poms now.

vegggas,

I'm not sure what the bold highlighted part of the instructions means:


NOTE: The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated. For maximum efficiency, consider turning off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot (VOL-, VOL +, INFO) and leave the STB powered off until you hear it go into defrag mode, then just leave it off while you go to work, to bed, etc.
This just means that once a defrag is complete it will not defrag again until you delete some content and turn off the unit again.

vegggas

Here's a little tip that I've been using for quite some time, although, I've just been taking it for granted all these years, until someone came over today and was totally blown away by the usefulness of it. This works for most Digital STB's with a USB port.
Quite simply, I use the USB port on my digital STB to power a notebook LED light with a switch on it. During dark DVD viewing, my STB provides the power for the light, which is enough to read the lables on the DVD's and cases, etc. Note - STB is higher than the DVD, and the LED shines down onto the loading tray of the DVD.
Apparently, He'd never heard of this, nor thought of it, and had been using a small AC/DC flourescent light for the same thing. It was too bright and temporarily left him "night blind" until his eyes re-adjusted back in the dark
Hopefully someone else finds this useful too.

vegggas

Here's a little tip that I've been using for quite some time, although, I've just been taking it for granted all these years, until someone came over today and was totally blown away by the usefulness of it. This works for most Digital STB's with a USB port.
Quite simply, I use the USB port on my digital STB to power a notebook LED light with a switch on it. During dark DVD viewing, my STB provides the power for the light, which is enough to read the lables on the DVD's and cases, etc. Note - STB is higher than the DVD, and the LED shines down onto the loading tray of the DVD.
Apparently, He'd never heard of this, nor thought of it, and had been using a small AC/DC flourescent light for the same thing. It was too bright and temporarily left him "night blind" until his eyes re-adjusted back in the dark
Hopefully someone else finds this useful too.

vegggas

Yup I've also seen/heard of people using laptop cooling fans to keep STB's nice and cool if they're in an enclosed space. All you're doing is drawing power from the USB connection. Very useful.

This is more for DoubleDAZ, or any other Maricopa County resident, since I live in the Phoenix area as well.

Cox has replaced my 8300HD DVR four times. My box seems to only record parts of one hour shows, typically reality shows, like Amazing Race, Survivor, now Big Brother on Channel 705 (CBS HD) while my Windows Media Center laptop records the full hour - I am glad I purchased that machine lately. It doesn't always have the problem; it is typically the Tuesday or Sunday shows for Big Brother lately for the 8300.

I call Cox, they just reboot the machine. If I politely remind them they tried that before, they come out and just replace the box. They say it is not the timing of the show on their system and that no one else calls with this problem.

Any ideas or would anyone be willing to record Big Brother without watching it live to see if it is my box or the show's flags on Cox? The shows will be Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday and I would follow up next Monday - Wednesday.

Of course, mechanic syndrome will come into play this week and they will all be good recordings...

My box seems to only record parts of one hour shows, typically reality shows, like Amazing Race, Survivor, now Big Brother on Channel 705

A while back, I lost 1/2 of CSI which is also on CBS. But all the Survivors have been good.

Fox and CBS are the biggest offenders of this problem. It's not just in Arizona, nor just on Cox. It's been reported across other cable co's around the country.

vegggas

Fox and CBS are the biggest offenders of this problem. It's not just in Arizona, nor just on Cox. It's been reported across other cable co's around the country.

vegggas
Here in Rochester, NY the most common offenders are ABC (HD) & TNT (HD).

I had this problem on "The Closer" last week (and the last 5 minutes of "Saved" cut off this week).

20 questions:
-Wouldn't the air times be consistent in the area for program guides?

-Why would it work on Media Center but not Cox? Media Center asks me if I have Cox or another service when I set it up with my zip code and it works every time on it.

-Is there a way to program the box to record into the next hour automatically, just in case? Media Center lets me go up to 3 hours after the show (a little overkill), but when I change the record time on the 8300HD it reverts to the beginning of the hour.

As a test I am recording on 705 (CBS HD) and 805 (CBS digital) on the 8300HD and 05 (CBS analog cable) on Media Center for this next week. A friend on satellite tells me he doesn't have the problem (he has Dish network I believe), but he records over the air for the local channels.

-Amazed in Ahwatukee

It only happens on the digital and not the analog broadcasts, So the media center would not be affected. Some think that it has to do with "scheduled" commercial breaks in the digital metadata that fail to have correct start and stop times - i.e not during a commercial break.
Also, the guide data is not local, it's either from Tribune Media out of Canada, or another national service center like TVGuide. If the data getting to the network gets corrupted, or is corrupted at the local side, it could also have this problem too.

vegggas

20 questions:
-Wouldn't the air times be consistent in the area for program guides?

-Why would it work on Media Center but not Cox? Media Center asks me if I have Cox or another service when I set it up with my zip code and it works every time on it.

-Is there a way to program the box to record into the next hour automatically, just in case? Media Center lets me go up to 3 hours after the show (a little overkill), but when I change the record time on the 8300HD it reverts to the beginning of the hour.

With SARA 1.88.x.x, you can program the box to record into the next hour automatically for all episodes. Before 1.88.x.x, you can only extend the time for a single episode.

As a test I am recording on 705 (CBS HD) and 805 (CBS digital) on the 8300HD and 05 (CBS analog cable) on Media Center for this next week. A friend on satellite tells me he doesn't have the problem (he has Dish network I believe), but he records over the air for the local channels.

-Amazed in Ahwatukee

Yeah... first post!
I've been searching around here for a while now and just wanted to thank all you guys for the info. I had no idea some of the stuff I could do with my 8300HD until I learned some of the tricks. I had a quick question regarding audio. I have my box hooked into my recevier with components (since I'm still in 1.87.19 and it has handshake issues with HDMI going through the receiver). I can only seem to get 2 channel audio even on programs which seem like they should be in 5.1 (the movie channels 180-188 and certain INHD movies). Maybe this is a question more for my receiver but I didn't know if there was a quick fix I am missing with the 8300. I set the audio out to Dolby Digital but it doesn't seem to make a difference if I change it to HDMI or other. I don't see it being my receiver as DVDs play perfectly in 5.1. Thanks in advance for the help and thanks again for all the great info in this thread! Sorry the first post is such a doozie!

How is your audio getting to the receiver? You need coaxial or optical. Component only carries video signals.

Wow... this is when I sound really stupid. I've learned enough on this forum to fudge my way through my HT setup but obviously not enough! I just used the five cables all together as one that came with my 8300HD. So that cable must give me sound but apparently will not process 5.1? It also came with a coaxial cable I believe so should i also hook that up to my receiver for the audio? Maybe the best course would be to wait and see if DoubleD can get me the software upgrade so I can use HDMI and only have to deal with one cable!

Yes, hook the coaxial up, but just use the 3 component cables for the video and the 1 coaxial cable for the audio.

Gotcha. Thaks for the help man! I knew it should be something simple that my newbie mind couldn't comprehend!

Wow... this is when I sound really stupid. I've learned enough on this forum to fudge my way through my HT setup but obviously not enough! I just used the five cables all together as one that came with my 8300HD. So that cable must give me sound but apparently will not process 5.1? It also came with a coaxial cable I believe so should i also hook that up to my receiver for the audio? Maybe the best course would be to wait and see if DoubleD can get me the software upgrade so I can use HDMI and only have to deal with one cable!

Yes, you can connect one of the analog audio cables to the "Digital Audio Output" to the "Digital Audio Input" on your receiver. It should work. Of course for enhanced performance, you want to use either a good certified HDMI, digital or optical audio cable.

When watching a show, I can bring up a progress bar. Sometimes the first bit is red and the rest green. What do the colors signify?

For example: Ten minutes into a half hour show I pushed REC. The whole show got recorded -- the first third from the buffer, presumably. When watching the show, the first third is red and the rest green.

In other situations, the red part seems to stand for the part of the show which was not recorded.

What does it mean IN GENERAL -- please.

Thanks -- Vincent

When watching a show, I can bring up a progress bar. Sometimes the first bit is red and the rest green. What do the colors signify?

For example: Ten minutes into a half hour show I pushed REC. The whole show got recorded -- the first third from the buffer, presumably. When watching the show, the first third is red and the rest green.

In other situations, the red part seems to stand for the part of the show which was not recorded.

What does it mean IN GENERAL -- please.

Thanks -- Vincent

I believe the red means their is no recording of the program for that portion of the show's scheduled time. No buffer before recording because you weren't on that channel or changed channels.

Also if you end a recording early and save the recording, the end will show in red since it is missing. Good for saving hard disk space on end of movies that end 10 minutes before schedule end time (HBO, etc). You have to do this real-time of course.

See page 19:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdf

Paul,

Last response to you!

Why don't you just leave us alone? No one tried to start a Tivo war again. All I ever did was let folks know that Tivo has patents on some of this stuff, period, and everyone EXCEPT YOU understands that. I also NEVER said any particular problem was due to a Tivo patent, just that they could be and we simply don't know. I aslo never cried over the Tivo patents, they have every rigth to them, just as SA and others have every right to try to program around them. Every time someone mentions a Tivo patent you go ballistic for no reason. If you don't like the 8300, simply switch. If you can't, that's just too darned bad.

Paul,

Last response to you!

Why don't you just leave us alone? No one tried to start a Tivo war again. All I ever did was let folks know that Tivo has patents on some of this stuff, period, and everyone EXCEPT YOU understands that. I also NEVER said any particular problem was due to a Tivo patent, just that they could be and we simply don't know. I aslo never cried over the Tivo patents, they have every rigth to them, just as SA and others have every right to try to program around them. Every time someone mentions a Tivo patent you go ballistic for no reason. If you don't like the 8300, simply switch. If you can't, that's just too darned bad.


Well, the news today tells us that some subs will get Tivo on their Cox boxes. I don't know if thats good or bad news for you guys.

I believe the red means their is no recording of the program for that portion of the show's scheduled time. No buffer before recording because you weren't on that channel or changed channels.

Also if you end a recording early and save the recording, the end will show in red since it is missing. Good for saving hard disk space on end of movies that end 10 minutes before schedule end time (HBO, etc). You have to do this real-time of course.

See page 19:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdfI was thinking that probably is what the red is all about UNTIL I saw that I recorded the entire half-hour show and the first third which had come from the buffer was shown red.

That's when I became confused and wrote my original question.

Vincent

We just got a new SARA version from Cablevision 1.88.23.1
No new features just cleans up a few minor issues we had with 1.88.15.2

Well, the news today tells us that some subs will get Tivo on their Cox boxes. I don't know if thats good or bad news for you guys.Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8275080&&#post8275080) to go to the post in the "Hot Off The Press! The Latest Television News and Info" thread about this, but it doesn't have much more information. Does Cox only use SA DVRs?
The DVR vendor [Tivo] will customize its cable software for deployment on compatible Cox DVR set-top-boxes, the two companies said. Its downloadable software will allow Cox to deliver TiVo’s service without replacing existing DVR boxes and without install appointments.

Note: Edited
No, it also uses Motorola DVRs.
The compatible Cox DVRs are Motorola, see the last article linked so it won't change the SA DVRs.

Additional News Links:

Cox, TiVo Sign Deployment Agreement
By Ed Oswald, BetaNews
http://www.betanews.com/article/Cox_TiVo_Sign_Deployment_Agreement/1156441512

News & Commentary
Cox: TiVo Service Will Include HD DVRs
The DVR company secures its second cable licensing deal.
By Phillip Swann
http://www.tvpredictions.com/coxtivo082406.htm

TiVo teams up with Cox
By Marguerite Reardon, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: August 24, 2006, 10:31 AM PT
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6109246.html

TiVo to provide DVR software to Cox
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1700AP_TiVo_Cox.html

Cox, TiVo Get Hitched, Make Babies—DVR Style
The TiVo software will be downloaded to the existing Cox Motorola DVR boxes. This option won't be available until 2007, unfortunately. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/cox-tivo-get-hitched-make-babiesdvr-style-196413.php

No, Cox also uses Moto boxes wherever they bought up a cable service using that platform, Tucson and parts of Mesa AZ are two such places.

I assume this is all part of the OCAP implementation.

Well, the news today tells us that some subs will get Tivo on their Cox boxes. I don't know if thats good or bad news for you guys.Doesn't bother me one way or the other, I've often said this was coming. Now all we need is the price. :)

Well, the news today tells us that some subs will get Tivo on their Cox boxes. I don't know if thats good or bad news for you guys.
Having used both the HD8300 and a TiVo DVR the TiVo has a much better set of features and a better user interface.

Ron Jones

I was wondering if this indicates that I cannot use the 8300 for network streaming?

Server

Authorized: NO
Network: Not Ready
PVR: Ready
HDD: Ready

Also, I checked my OS release and it's 1.8.7.32.1 and that's what is pre-loaded in the CMOS, that seems behind the curve. Is there a way to make sure I'm updated?

Also, does one need to buy one of the SATA drives that advertise as being SA 8300 compliant or can I just purchase any SATA drive, with an enclosure and proper cable for less?

No, Cox also uses Moto boxes wherever they bought up a cable service using that platform, Tucson and parts of Mesa AZ are two such places.

I assume this is all part of the OCAP implementation.I don't think this is part of the OCAP implementation. The Tivo software is not OCAP. I think it is similar to the conversion of Tivo software for Comcast, except it is for Cox.

AFAIK, the software version of Tivo that is going to be running on ported STB's is OCAP. The reason for the long delay is not that the software is taking that long, but that cable headends are upgrading to OCAP capabilities. Cox has already said that it will be readying OCAP deployment in late '06 to early '07 and that Comcast is deploying it in late '06. This also falls in line with the OCAP release of the Tivo Software running over the STB's.

vegggas

vegggas,

Is this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7569550&&#post7569550) from dt_dc that Tivo hasn't announced whether the ported software is OCAP or native code still valid? And that we really don't know for sure either way?

Does anybody know if you can force 2-channel PCM out of the digital outputs on a 8300HD?

Thanks.

We don't KNOW for certain about OCAP compliance, however, Cox and Comcast, along with other providers are not releasing multiroom DVR's due to incompatibilities with OCAP implementation.
Knowing that the direction of both of these companies is moving toward OCAP and that starting July 07, cable companies can no longer purchase STB's with embedded propriatary security, it doesn't make sense to not have the software be OCAP compliant. Also, the pending release of the Panasonic DVR's on Comcast are supposed to using OCAP software too.
There is also some known info that Tivo was specifically writing the software to operate and use the Moto hardware to it's fullest potential, as well as porting it to SA equipment at a later date. That doesn't sound like a full OCAP solution, but the underlying software can be with additional features of the specific hardware.
I see the future as having three distinct levels:
1) A default interface as supplied now with little future development to support existing STB's
2) An advanced Tivo OCAP interface usable on OCAP hardware that can be purchased at local electronics stores.
3) An advanced Tivo OCAP interface specifically written for a hardware platform that takes advantage of specific hardware features of the MOTO and SA STB's in use by the cable companies that offer "extra" features not available with the consumer purchased STB's. This gives the edge to cable co's leased equipment so that tey do not lose their huge investment in hardware purchases, and offers an alternative to customer purchasees.

vegggas

Does anybody know if you can force 2-channel PCM out of the digital outputs on a 8300HD?

Thanks.
YES!
You don't offer a location in your profile so we ca't give specific answers, other than read the first post.

vegggas

YES!
You don't offer a location in your profile so we ca't give specific answers, other than read the first post.

vegggas

Well, I live in Miami (Key Biscayne) FL. And my 8300 only has two Audio Options: Volume, and Dynamic Range. Is the digital audio output option only enabled when you have HDMI connected?

Well, I live in Miami (Key Biscayne) FL. And my 8300 only has two Audio Options: Volume, and Dynamic Range. Is the digital audio output option only enabled when you have HDMI connected?

If you are not using HDMI I assume you have the components. Just hook up a RCA stereo audio cable and you get the 2 CH or use an optical cable and get full DD 5.1 with an AV receiver. The option of DD/PCM only matters if you use the HDMI.

BTW, do you get Comcast or ABB?

Sergio

If you are not using HDMI I assume you have the components. Just hook up a RCA stereo audio cable and you get the 2 CH or use an optical cable and get full DD 5.1 with an AV receiver. The option of DD/PCM only matters if you use the HDMI.

BTW, do you get Comcast or ABB?

Sergio

I'm on Adelphia.

My setup is a little less than usual; I need to force PCM out of the digital output because I would like to use Meridian DSP3100s without a controller.

If your provider does not enable the option for digital output selection, then you may be out of luck. The typical setting is AUDIO:DIGITAL OUT with selections for Dolby Digital, Other (PCM) or HDMI if connected.
Thanks for adding you location to your profile. That area around S. Florida seems to have some weird cable plant settings that are not the norm for most providers. There have been others in your area with simiar problems.

vegggas

Interesting; so this is an issue with Adelphia, not SA. I know Comcast is slowly taking over S. Florida and in less than six months they will be my provider. But this is a real problem for me. I'm going to call them tomorrow to see if they have an answer.

Yes, it's a provider issue. SA provides a suite of features that can be enabled or disabled by the provider. You can look at the links in the first post of this thread and see examples of SA's software. I've heard of others in your area using the digital phone service and getting the caller ID on the cable box screen.This takes up application memory on the STB, so providers have to find ways of cutting out some features to make it all fit.

vegggas

We don't KNOW for certain about OCAP compliance, however, Cox and Comcast, along with other providers are not releasing multiroom DVR's due to incompatibilities with OCAP implementation.
Knowing that the direction of both of these companies is moving toward OCAP and that starting July 07, cable companies can no longer purchase STB's with embedded propriatary security, it doesn't make sense to not have the software be OCAP compliant. Also, the pending release of the Panasonic DVR's on Comcast are supposed to using OCAP software too.
There is also some known info that Tivo was specifically writing the software to operate and use the Moto hardware to it's fullest potential, as well as porting it to SA equipment at a later date. That doesn't sound like a full OCAP solution, but the underlying software can be with additional features of the specific hardware.
I see the future as having three distinct levels:
1) A default interface as supplied now with little future development to support existing STB's
2) An advanced Tivo OCAP interface usable on OCAP hardware that can be purchased at local electronics stores.
3) An advanced Tivo OCAP interface specifically written for a hardware platform that takes advantage of specific hardware features of the MOTO and SA STB's in use by the cable companies that offer "extra" features not available with the consumer purchased STB's. This gives the edge to cable co's leased equipment so that tey do not lose their huge investment in hardware purchases, and offers an alternative to customer purchasees.

vegggasI haven't seen any information about Tivo porting their software to SA equipment. Did I miss that? I have seen where Time Warner Cable is licensing some Tivo features for their Digital Navigator which will be used on both Motorola and SA equipment. I agree with your view of the future.

Although the details of the Comcast deal are not publicly available, there were reports from Comcast that said the deal would port the Tivo software, first to it's major subscriberbase of Motorola users, then followup with other systems to port the Tivo interface onto systems using SA equipment.

vegggas

Yes, it's a provider issue. SA provides a suite of features that can be enabled or disabled by the provider. You can look at the links in the first post of this thread and see examples of SA's software. I've heard of others in your area using the digital phone service and getting the caller ID on the cable box screen.This takes up application memory on the STB, so providers have to find ways of cutting out some features to make it all fit.

vegggas


I appreciate your input.

I haven't seen any information about Tivo porting their software to SA equipment. Did I miss that? I have seen where Time Warner Cable is licensing some Tivo features for their Digital Navigator which will be used on both Motorola and SA equipment. I agree with your view of the future.It was posted in the Hot Off The Press and other threads. They just signed an agreement with Cox that is similar to the Comcast deal where Tivo software will run on SA boxes sometime in 2007. How long it will take to roll out in individual markets and at what cost is anyone's guess. We believe this is being made practical by the implementation of OCAP and you can see vegggas' earlier post regarding how some of us think this will work inconjunction with cable leased boxes, etc.

I have a Sony Bravia 46S2000 LCD display and am using Charter's SA 8300 (HD DVR).

I have the box connected via HDMI to HDMI and everything was fine until today when for some reason the non-HD channels are now "zooming" and the full image can't be seen. I have played with various display options and none seem to resolve the problem, even displaying in 4:3 mode with black bars.

Changing the cable box options does not help either. Using Auto DVI or upconvert 1 or 2 all produce the same result. Fixed does the same thing.

I have no idea what has happened here, because when I first got the set (2 weeks ago) the scaling was fine.

Is anyone using the same combination of gear?

I need some help FAST as my wife was not too thrilled with the purchase to begin with!

UPDATE:

So I tried dropping down to component and the problem is the same. I used the reset the TV to its original factory settings and still have the same problem. Even viewing 4:3 source in that format (big black bars on both sides) still have the scaling problem. It is as if all SD images are zoomed no matter what the setting.

HD is fine as is DVD.

I am beginning to suspect the cable box -- I have four options for display: Auto HDMI (which I had been using until this problem just began at random), upconvert 1, upconvert 2 and fixed.

Does anyone have a suggestion here? The HD and DVD display is SO good, yet my family likes a number of SD programs so this is a big problem.

Thanks!

The obvious question is did you try the zoom button on the remote? It's underneath the number 9 button.

PERFECT! Of course, it is labeled as a # sign and not a zoom. However, it was indeed zoomed (by my 2 year old of course). All is well.

Thanks you so much.

PERFECT! Of course, it is labeled as a # sign and not a zoom. However, it was indeed zoomed (by my 2 year old of course). All is well.

Thanks you so much.
That's funny, your button is in the same location, but not labeled? Mine has a HD/ZOOM label on it. I have the 5 source remote, do you?
You should also have the PIP buttons below it.

The new Digital Navigator AKA Mystro is now being ported to the old Aldelphi customers who had motorola boxes> I-Guine is being ripped out replaced with the TW inhouse guide. Once this is done the passport guide users will receive the new Navigator.The sara users will receive the guide in the second quarter of next year.The reason sara users get it last is that TW wants to have all the interactive features ported to those boxes that sara customers already have caller id,access menu ect.Except they get the full guide first.I understandsara users will receive startover before the passport and motorola users.For those who have now seen the guide go to TW Nabraska site check it out.I'm jelious it looks as good or better than tivo.(sure some tivo license money changed hands)But really this guide is sweet and has more search features then tivo.It contains keyword,theme,rateing search features with many sub features in each one.We finally get a series manager also.Check i out for yourselves.Hope this info helps out.This is a new guide and software and sara and passport are being replaced.

Looks like someone needs to start a TWC Navigator/Mystro thread.

That's funny, your button is in the same location, but not labeled? Mine has a HD/ZOOM label on it. I have the 5 source remote, do you?
You should also have the PIP buttons below it.

I don't think they ever gave me a new remote, they just left me with the old one from my 3250.

I am going to reprogram the whole thing into my Home Theatre Master 700 this weekend anyway, so no further worries. It is interesting that the # key even worked.

thanks again.

I am a new owner of a Panasonic TH-42PH9UK with two 8 series HDMI boards installed, and I have the Knology SA8300HD DVR connected to input 1 via HDMI. I also have a toslink cable for digital audio going to the receiver. Last night I noticed that the Picture button on my Panasonic remote is missing the adjustments for color and tint . I just went home to check it again and sure enough, there is no way to adjust color & tint...anywhere. Does anyone know what I have done wrong?

I am a new owner of a Panasonic TH-42PH9UK with two 8 series HDMI boards installed, and I have the Knology SA8300HD DVR connected to input 1 via HDMI. I also have a toslink cable for digital audio going to the receiver. Last night I noticed that the Picture button on my Panasonic remote is missing the adjustments for color and tint . I just went home to check it again and sure enough, there is no way to adjust color & tint...anywhere. Does anyone know what I have done wrong?
Is this an 8300 question?

Yes it is Jason,

Someone in the Panasonic forum mentioned that this is a color space problem, and that if I could find out where to change from RGB to component on the 8300,that the adjustment bars would reappear in the picture menu of the Panasonic. Does that ring a bell for anybody?

tomboyter:

It definitely sounds like a colour space problem. I'm a bit confused, though. Isn't component analogue, whereas you're using HDMI?

I've had an 8300 for 2 years and have never heard it could output RGB, but someone else may correct me on that.

Is there any chance your Panny has a setting which is converting HDMI to RGB somehow?

Man I don't know...I really didn't have to configure anything on the panel, just plugged in and the 8300 lit it up. I know that I have seen the adjustments for color and tint in that picture menu, but it's not there now. I don't know which way to go with this.

I have my 8300HD connected to a Pioneer 5060 plasma using an HDMI cable and am a Cablevision customer. The tv would automatically switch the screen to wide mode when viewing non HD programming and back to "full" mode when watching HD. Starting yesterday when switching to a non HD program, instead of going to "wide"mode the TV switches to "zoom" mode. In addition, the 5060 has a little window that pops up on screen when the screen size changes and goes away in a few seconds. When it now switches to "zoom" instead of wide, the little window stays on screen and does not disappear. When switching back to HD all is fine. If I connect with component instead of HDMI everything works as it should. I know the issue is not the TV. Any ideas out there? I heard Cablevision recently sent out an update that may have caused this. I have not called customer service as they are usually clueless...

I don't think this is part of the OCAP implementation. The Tivo software is not OCAP. I think it is similar to the conversion of Tivo software for Comcast, except it is for Cox.


Yup. This is likely to leverage much of the work that TiVo's already done to port their software to the existing Motorola 6412. Cox will obviously have some special requirements of their own to differentiate themselves from Comcast, but that's likely not going to amount to too much additional work. The hard part's already done (porting the software to the 6412).

Does the fact that Comcast and Cox will allow users to order and download the TiVo software lend any support to the OCAP or non-OCAP side of the discussion ?

I have my 8300HD connected to a Pioneer 5060 plasma using an HDMI cable and am a Cablevision customer. The tv would automatically switch the screen to wide mode when viewing non HD programming and back to "full" mode when watching HD. Starting yesterday when switching to a non HD program, instead of going to "wide"mode the TV switches to "zoom" mode. In addition, the 5060 has a little window that pops up on screen when the screen size changes and goes away in a few seconds. When it now switches to "zoom" instead of wide, the little window stays on screen and does not disappear. When switching back to HD all is fine. If I connect with component instead of HDMI everything works as it should. I know the issue is not the TV. Any ideas out there? I heard Cablevision recently sent out an update that may have caused this. I have not called customer service as they are usually clueless...

Wilt Hildenbrand, CV's EVP of Engineering has been made aware of potential HDMI issues with the new 1.88.23.1 SARA version and he has said they are looking into it.

It was posted in the Hot Off The Press and other threads. They just signed an agreement with Cox that is similar to the Comcast deal where Tivo software will run on SA boxes sometime in 2007. How long it will take to roll out in individual markets and at what cost is anyone's guess. We believe this is being made practical by the implementation of OCAP and you can see vegggas' earlier post regarding how some of us think this will work inconjunction with cable leased boxes, etc.Dave,

None of the articles that I have seen mention Tivo software running on SA boxes for either Cox or Comcast.

For Comcast, vegggas said Although the details of the Comcast deal are not publicly available, there were reports from Comcast that said the deal would port the Tivo software, first to it's major subscriberbase of Motorola users, then followup with other systems to port the Tivo interface onto systems using SA equipment. I don't remember seeing any AVS posts about Tivo software being ported to the SA equipment for Comcast, but there are a lot posts about the Tivo software port to the Motorola DVR. I hope they do port it because I currently have Houston Time Warner Cable and SA 8300HD DVRs and Comcast will take over the cable system in early 2007.

For Cox, many of the articles about the Tivo software port include phrases such as "compatible Cox DVRs", "certain boxes", "select customers", or "select Cox markets." One article mentions that the Tivo software will be ported to the Motorola DVRs. See my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8278080&&#post8278080) that references some of the news articles and the post in the "Hot Off the Press" thread. The links to the news articles were added later.

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleid=CA6365434

Read para 4. This is why I beleive it all hinges on OCAP and Cox, here at least, will implement OCAP in 2007.

Cox spokesman David Grabert said Cox will initially deploy TiVo on Motorola set-tops in early 2007. TiVo will be available on SA set-tops at a later date. Comcast has a similar deployment schedule with TiVo.

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleid=CA6365434

Read para 4. This is why I beleive it all hinges on OCAP and Cox, here at least, will implement OCAP in 2007.
Cox spokesman David Grabert said Cox will initially deploy TiVo on Motorola set-tops in early 2007. TiVo will be available on SA set-tops at a later date. Comcast has a similar deployment schedule with TiVo.
Thanks, Dave.
This is the first news article that I have seen that mentioned Tivo being ported to the SA set-top box. I wonder how long it will take before it is available on SA set-tops? I wonder if it is taking longer because Tivo is using all OCAP?

I think someone said 2008, but there is just too much conjecture with little to back it up. Of course, some say that defines many of my posts. :)

Anyway, if I ever get some concrete info that I can post, I certainly will.

It was posted in the Hot Off The Press and other threads. They just signed an agreement with Cox that is similar to the Comcast deal where Tivo software will run on SA boxes sometime in 2007. How long it will take to roll out in individual markets and at what cost is anyone's guess. We believe this is being made practical by the implementation of OCAP and you can see vegggas' earlier post regarding how some of us think this will work inconjunction with cable leased boxes, etc.

Originally Posted by vegggas
So, how do you like your Tivo/MS DVR from Dish? Afterall, it's stolen from Tivo...

As for Cox and Comcast, Tivo won't be the only interface. It will be an "upgrade option" that incorporates Tivo exclusive patented and trademarked features like "Season Pass", "Keyword Search", and ""Kids Zone". The current interface will still be available as a base option, due to agreements between the parties to carry the Tivo vesion.

vegggas

Bad news DoubleDaz, guess all hopes for better firmwares for your SA8300HD's are over. You'll just have to fork over more bucks than you already pay Cox to get fixed services from TIVO!

I seriously doubt that foghorn. Tivo will simply be another option and there are going to be many more parties coming to the table as DVRs finally go mainstream.

I seriously doubt that foghorn. Tivo will simply be another option and there are going to be many more parties coming to the table as DVRs finally go mainstream.

I hope you are right. I liked the SA Box the way it was but they never enabled the MR stuff or planned to or fixed the record to VCR here in Vegas. Maybe with Tivo the sharing features will be enabled to other Tivos?

=======================Edited out quote from foghorn

I haven't seen any information about Tivo porting their software to SA equipment. Did I miss that? I have seen where Time Warner Cable is licensing some Tivo features for their Digital Navigator which will be used on both Motorola and SA equipment. I agree with your view of the future.

=======================

It was posted in the Hot Off The Press and other threads. They just signed an agreement with Cox that is similar to the Comcast deal where Tivo software will run on SA boxes sometime in 2007. How long it will take to roll out in individual markets and at what cost is anyone's guess. We believe this is being made practical by the implementation of OCAP and you can see vegggas' earlier post regarding how some of us think this will work inconjunction with cable leased boxes, etc.


====================== Edited out quote from foghorn
Tivo=Microsoft.
Wonderful, now the DVR landscape will all be the same and boring. Just like the PC's.
=======================

Originally Posted by vegggas
So, how do you like your Tivo/MS DVR from Dish? Afterall, it's stolen from Tivo...

As for Cox and Comcast, Tivo won't be the only interface. It will be an "upgrade option" that incorporates Tivo exclusive patented and trademarked features like "Season Pass", "Keyword Search", and ""Kids Zone". The current interface will still be available as a base option, due to agreements between the parties to carry the Tivo vesion.

vegggas


Bad news DoubleDaz, guess all hopes for better firmwares for your SA8300HD's are over. You'll just have to fork over more bucks than you already pay Cox to get fixed services from TIVO!

Just putting the quotes back into context...

vegggas

Is it a known issue for the 8300HD to NOT record a program that was scheduled?
I'm burned up about this. I guess I'll have to record all my shows to the VCR in SD and let the 8300 TRY and record the same shows in HD. Damn, double recording sucks.

I hope you are right. I liked the SA Box the way it was but they never enabled the MR stuff or planned to or fixed the record to VCR here in Vegas. Maybe with Tivo the sharing features will be enabled to other Tivos?I believe it's been stated before (conjecture perhaps?) that MR was delayed because it is being ported to OCAP. AFAIK, the Record To VCR is fixed in 1.88.x.x, but I don't know why Cox hasn't released that version yet, at least to SA8300HD users, since the known major problem only appears to affect only SA8000HD users. Perhaps they don't have to capability to limit a release to just the SA8300HD without doing it one box at a time, which would be a nightmare for them.

Houston Time Warner Cable was able to send the 1.88.22.1 release to specific 8300 HD DVR hardware types so Cox should be able to do the same. Maybe, Cox wants the same code for both the 8000 and the 8300 and that is the reason they are waiting.

Is it a known issue for the 8300HD to NOT record a program that was scheduled?
I'm burned up about this. I guess I'll have to record all my shows to the VCR in SD and let the 8300 TRY and record the same shows in HD. Damn, double recording sucks.
If the station to be recorded is having trouble, can the timer recording info not activate?

So what you are saying Russ is that Houston has both the 8000 and 8300 and are able to limit the release of 1.88.x.x to only the 8300 even though both units use the same software now?

Houston has both 8000 and 8300 SA set-top boxes. When Houston Time Warner Cable decided to release 1.88.22.1, it first downloaded it to the SA 8300HD hardware type 2.4 set-top boxes. Two weeks later it downloaded it to the SA 8300HD hardware type 2.2 set-top boxes and I think all the rest of the SA DVR set-toAdd note about 8000Addp boxes. During this 2 week period, Houston was running both 1.87.16.a104 and 1.88.22.1. I think the SA 8300HD hardware type 2.4 set-top box doesn't have firewire ports, but the SA 8300HD hardware type 2.2 set box does have firewire ports. There may be other differences, but I couldn't get any more info about it. My point is that Houston Time Warner Cable was able to download the 1.88.22.1 release to specific hardware type set-top boxes, so I think a cable company should be able to download a SARA release to either or both 8000 or 8300 SA set-top boxes depending on what it wants to do.

Note: I don't know what SARA release is currently being used on the 8000 SA set-top box. No one has posted that info on the Houston TWC thread and I don't have a 8000 SA set-top box since I upgraded to the 8300HD SA set-top box.

So what you are saying Russ is that Houston has both the 8000 and 8300 and are able to limit the release of 1.88.x.x to only the 8300 even though both units use the same software now?That was the point I was trying to make back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8154972&&#post8154972). If a cableco can target a specific software version to a subset of 8300HDs without hitting the other 8300HDs, then it seems very likely they can similarly differentiate between 8000HDs and 8300HDs as well.

Well, it sure sounds like they can then, not sure why they won't here unless there are some other issues I'm not aware of. Thanks for the info guys.

I am a new owner of a Panasonic TH-42PH9UK with two 8 series HDMI boards installed, and I have the Knology SA8300HD DVR connected to input 1 via HDMI. I also have a toslink cable for digital audio going to the receiver. Last night I noticed that the Picture button on my Panasonic remote is missing the adjustments for color and tint . I just went home to check it again and sure enough, there is no way to adjust color & tint...anywhere. Does anyone know what I have done wrong?
Try Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8041840&&#post8041840)

I tried this in the Houston thread and I thought I would try here. Running a 8300HD with the new Houston 1.88.xx SARA. I have a problem that started to crop up where a recorded show plays back "white noise" for the audio. Kinda of like it is only playing the digital audio stream and not decoding it. This happened on an old schedule and a one time only, the other day. It, so far, has only done it on the analog tier stations. Yesterday I went to record a few minutes of each channel and all was well. Also tried analog audio out and that gives same audio sound.

Oh man. I disconnected the cable for a few minutes to change an old splitter and when I reconnected I couldn't get the 8300HD to work. I tried pulling the power for a minute and only got the analog stations, no digital and no DVR functions. I called the cable company, TWC, and we soft booted it, but same thing. They are saying that the box is defective and needs to be swapped out.

I don't have a problem with that per se, but I don't want to lose the shows on the HDD. Is there anyway to save them?

I'm trying a hard boot as mentioned here on page one. Hopefully it will work.

The funny this is that I had the cable disconnected lots of times this weekend and the STB always continued working. Anyone have any ideas what happened?

Oh man. I disconnected the cable for a few minutes to change an old splitter and when I reconnected I couldn't get the 8300HD to work.

I wonder if the new splitter is giving you some problems (for example: not wide enough bandwidth to let the needed digital info through, or is not bidirectional, so the data path FROM the DVR back to the head end is diminished). Make a direction connection (no splitter) and try again. If that works, put the old splitter back. You might try getting cable to come out and check your wiring out, replacing splitters with the ones that they know work, and even putting in an amp, if needed. Many cable companies (like Time Warner here in Rochester, NY) do this at no charge.

The bandwidth is listed at 1000K on the splitter plus my cable modem is working fine so it has to be bidirectional. Doesn't it? maybe I'm wrong in this?
I'll try a different splitter as soon as I can and see if it makes a difference.

The bandwidth is listed at 1000K on the splitter plus my cable modem is working fine so it has to be bidirectional. Doesn't it? maybe I'm wrong in this?Actually, all it says is that the cable modem works with the splitter.

The fact remains, you changed something, and after the change, the DVR stopped working. Have you tried putting everything back the way it was before the change, to see if that restores the DVR functionality?

Is there any chance that you have multiple cable feeds coming into the house, and you somehow changed which one was feeding the DVR? (As a rule, I don't think TWC has multiple feeds to a single house, and that wouldn't necessarily cause a problem anyway, but there might be a filter at the tap on one feed but not on the other, or something...)

Looks like I'll be visiting Cox tomorrow to swap out my box. Turned it on tonight and it told me I had no more space left. A couple of nights ago it was at 11%. Powered it off and back on and the hard drive was giving a LOUD "clack, clack, clack" and the display showed some type of hex countdown while no video is displayed on my monitor. Sounds like a bad drive to me as it is making the same read/write head noise I've heard in PC's when a drive fails. Sigh....

Actually, all it says is that the cable modem works with the splitter.

The fact remains, you changed something, and after the change, the DVR stopped working. Have you tried putting everything back the way it was before the change, to see if that restores the DVR functionality?

Is there any chance that you have multiple cable feeds coming into the house, and you somehow changed which one was feeding the DVR? (As a rule, I don't think TWC has multiple feeds to a single house, and that wouldn't necessarily cause a problem anyway, but there might be a filter at the tap on one feed but not on the other, or something...)
OK, let me try and figure this out logically. I understand what you mean about putting it back like it was.

First, I had a corroded splitter outside the house. I moved it inside the house to keep it dry and prevent the corrosion that eventually develops. I cleaned all the center wires with emory cloth and got them nice and shiny. I replaced the bad splitter with a new one from Radio Shack.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103924&cp=&origkw=splitter&kw=splitter&parentPage=search
The output went to the other room and all that end of the signal is the same. Everything worked, but I noticed pixilation with large moving scenes on the high def channels. It kind of sucks to watch that so I swapped the RS splitter for an old TWC one from Regal. Then my CM and DVR dropped thier signals. I power cycled the CM and it started working fine, but the DVR did not work on the digital channels or on the DVR portion. I tried soft reboots and hard reboots, but the DVR never showed the : on the front panel or anything, it just stayed blank.

So I went and wiggled the connectors around and that Regal splitter started making the analog channels really snowy. I made sure the center electrodes where clean and it still seemed like the splitter wasn't making a good connection, so I trashed it and put the RS one back on. So right now, it is back in a configuration that did work, yet I have the DVR problem.

The one leg from this splitter that goes to my bedroom is all the same. It has a second Regal splitter, one leg goes to the CM and the other to a 4 way RS amp. I never had any problems with this end of things, still, I bypassed this second splitter and used a double female connector and connected the cable from the DVR to the cable from the wall. The DVR still didn't work.

Now keep in mind that I have 2 STB's here, the DVR one and a regular non-HD non-DVR box I keep on the Speed Channel so that I can record my early morning F1 races on. You can't do that with the DVR as it has a screen saver that kicks in every night. Now this other STB is picking up the digital channels just fine, but not the DVR.

Maybe I should bypass the amp as much as possible, or all the splitters if possible and then try a hard reboot. I called my local TWC, but their "tools" for the cable signal are not working at the moment plus they said they have been having a few troubles the last few weeks. Maybe that has something to do with it, I don't know.

Can someone tell me how to access the 8300HD's power level meter? It has one I believe, right? Maybe that can give me some info.

Can someone tell me how to access the 8300HD's power level meter? It has one I believe, right? Maybe that can give me some info.
First page - First post.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it there. I haven't read this whole thread. Is it buried in here maybe?
What is the "signal strength meter" called, so I can search for it?

JasonWW,
The instructions are there early on how to get to the diagnostic display. One of the diag. pages displays signal level and SNR. Use page up and page down to move through the pages.

TerryB

OK, let me try and figure this out logically. I understand what you mean about putting it back like it was.Thanks for the detailed explanation. I wondered what drove you to make the change, and now I understand that you can't completely "put it back the way it was".
So I went and wiggled the connectors around and that Regal splitter started making the analog channels really snowy. I made sure the center electrodes where clean and it still seemed like the splitter wasn't making a good connection, so I trashed it and put the RS one back on. So right now, it is back in a configuration that did work, yet I have the DVR problem. Are you absolutely certain that it was the Regal splitter that was at fault when you wiggled the connections and saw obvious signal effects? It's possible you could have a cable with poor termination or other issues, in which case your wiggling might have been tweaking that bad cable, and the splitter might not have been at fault. You could still have the problem element in your setup and not realize it.
Now keep in mind that I have 2 STB's here, the DVR one and a regular non-HD non-DVR box I keep on the Speed Channel so that I can record my early morning F1 races on. You can't do that with the DVR as it has a screen saver that kicks in every night.This is a topic for a side discussion, but there's a setting you can use to turn on the 8300HD any time you want to, to any channel you want. Press "Settings - Settings" on the remote, then scroll through the list to the "Timer: Wake up" option.
Now this other STB is picking up the digital channels just fine, but not the DVR.Well, it's possible that the signal is marginal--just strong enough for the CM and the "good" STB to work, but just poor enough that the 8300HD won't. That's sort of the "magic bullet" theory, though, and admittedly not likely.
Maybe I should bypass the amp as much as possible, or all the splitters if possible and then try a hard reboot. I called my local TWC, but their "tools" for the cable signal are not working at the moment plus they said they have been having a few troubles the last few weeks. Maybe that has something to do with it, I don't know. It certainly doesn't help your troubleshooting, that's for sure. It'd be nice if they could send a "reset" command down the line to re-authorize your box and see if that helps anything. If they couldn't do that before because their "tools were down", you might try calling back now and seeing if they've got 'em back.
Can someone tell me how to access the 8300HD's power level meter? It has one I believe, right? Maybe that can give me some info.On the front panel, press and hold the "Select" button until the envelope icon starts flashing on the front panel. Release the "Select" button, and press the "Info" button to display the diagnostic screens. Pages 1 and 5 have signal strength information.

Jason,

This really crys out for a TW service call. TW is usually very good about correcting these problems. You are paying them for the service, let them take care of it.

Is it a known issue for the 8300HD to NOT record a program that was scheduled?
I'm burned up about this. I guess I'll have to record all my shows to the VCR in SD and let the 8300 TRY and record the same shows in HD. Damn, double recording sucks.


Jason,

Yes it's a problem with the 8300HD. I have had countless instances of the box either not recording a scheduled program or it cutting the recording time short. I'm constantly having to check the recordings to ensure that it either recorded the show or I got the show in it's entirety. This is a real concern with the new season of shows getting ready to kick off although there is not much I can do to change it, other that watch the show LIVE, with negates the whole DVR in the first place. :mad:

Based on the suggestion of another member I moved the DVR close to the main line in from the pole and connected it up directly. I used a small portable TV to see the picture. I tried the soft and hard reboot, waited at least 5 minutes and both times it did not show the time or display anything. I'm going to assume it is the box itself. Maybe I fried it somehow changing the splitters or maybe it was just a coincidence. Still, I had the 8300 for just 5 weeks and Bam, all my recordings are supposedly gone.

Is there anyway to salvage them at all?

Also, I finally found the signal level meter!
Very cool. That RS 4 way amp really helps. Without it and the cable going from the second splitter to the 8300 the signal level is -16. Going through the amp with the gain turned up it is -7. If I switch amps to the one in-one out amp from RS the signal level can go to 0. That amp has more power as it doesn't split up the output.

I'm going to have TWC come out Thursday morn. The service guy on the phone said the technician MIGHT be able to save the programs on the HDD. My other option was to swap it myself today. I'll wait and see what he says, just in case it is possible.

Rayd8tor, I think the one instance it didn't record for me was when TWC was having trouble on channels 313, 314 and 315 (which they still are!). Still, this DVR, maybe all of them, just don't seem realiable compared to my bank of 3 RCA VCR's. Those sumbitches work everytime. It's not high qaulity, but at least you get to see the show. I missed 4 instances to record Kyle XY and now I'm resorting to downloading that episode on the web. I learned my lesson. Just record everything like a have been and have the DVR record the HD shows, just don't count on it working. Watch the HD version when I can or else watch the tape version if I have to. At least I won't miss any shows.

Rayd8tor, I think the one instance it didn't record for me was when TWC was having trouble on channels 313, 314 and 315 (which they still are!). Still, this DVR, maybe all of them, just don't seem realiable and my bank of 3 RCA VCR's. Those sumbitches work everytime. It's not high qaulity, but at least you get to see the show. I mised 4 instances to record Kyle XY and now I'm resorting to downloading that episode on the web.


Yep. I came over to TWC from Dish a few months back, primarily for the HD. I had 3 Dish DVR's in the house, and for all the time I used theirs not once did I have a show that was scheduled not record, and not one show being cut short. I'm hoping that this new Mystro software they are going to will be a big improvement. I can only hope. I like the stuff I hear about the new Tivo Series 3, but just cannot swallow the proposed $800 for the box, and then a monthly subscription to boot. My fingers are really crossed that the new Mystro will work much better than the current software.

I just tried another change. The second leg of the second splitter was going directly to my cable modem, so I hooked the cable modem to one of the amp outputs and then removed the second splitter entirely. I connected the two cables together at the wall with a double female coax connector. Low and behold the STB meter is now showing a level of -3. Wow, I think I'll leave it like that. :)

I'm assuming a -3 level is good?

At one point it showed status as something called beast mode? Status changed to locked and it looked like it was flowing data. Right now the status is unlocked and there's no bytes moving.

Is it a known issue for the 8300HD to NOT record a program that was scheduled?
I'm burned up about this. I guess I'll have to record all my shows to the VCR in SD and let the 8300 TRY and record the same shows in HD. Damn, double recording sucks.

When this happened to me it turned out to be a signal/cable problem. Once that was resolved, recording was fine. The 8300HD seems to just quit recording if it doesn't like the signal -- stuff that you'd just ignore if you were watching.

I missed 4 instances to record Kyle XY and now I'm resorting to downloading that episode on the web.

I gave my tech thoughts in the above post. Here I just want to share that I thought Kyle XY was a great show. I'm looking forward to the second season! It was nice to find a fellow fan.

No, I didn't, probably because I don't recall seeing any follow-up discussion about it. I assume the instructions are still:

To defrag the drive (1.88.x.x):
Set the DVR's MAIN channel and PIP channel to non-bufferable channels, such as a music channel, so that the drive is not being used.
Wait a few moments to verify that hard disk activity stops (listen).
Press the Power button on the front of the STB to turn the unit off, then wait.
The drive should start defragging after about 5 minutes of inactivity.
NOTE: The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated. For maximum efficiency, consider turning off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot (VOL-, VOL +, INFO) and leave the STB powered off until you hear it go into defrag mode, then just leave it off while you go to work, to bed, etc.

I am on TWC Austin. My music channels do buffer. I can hit pause and rewind just like on any other channel. Got any other suggestions for non-bufferable channels?

I tried to set up recording 3 shows at once and got a screen telling me to pick the one not to record. I hit the ESPN2HD baseball game last night, and it had an 'X'. Then it wanted to confirm that I wanted to delete the game, which I did.

It actually did not record The Closer, causing me to search for a rerun date (fortunately I found one). Did I do something wrong?

I have also had partial recordings, which I imagine must be caused by Comcast, not the DVR. Is that right?

Thanks,

Rich N.

I have also had partial recordings, which I imagine must be caused by Comcast, not the DVR. Is that right?

Thanks,

Rich N.

The partial recordings problem is one that keeps cropping up throughout the country. It is either a problem with the guide data that the DVR uses (which comes from a national source), or a SA8300 software issue (or some combination of both).

Do you, by chance, have an external drive?

Raidbuck, that screen can be confusing. Once you picked what show to NOT record, did you check the guide to make sure the Closer was still highlighted to be recorded? It got me so mixed up I double checked just to make sure all my shows were still set to record.

davehancock, don't forget that if the particular channel is having problems at that time the DVR may not see the proper start and stop signal.

Holy Crap guys, my DVR is working! I left it alone for the last 4 hours and just decided to try a digital channel, and it worked. Recorded programs are still there as well. Yee ha!

I don't know how, but thanks for the help guys.

The partial recordings problem is one that keeps cropping up throughout the country. It is either a problem with the guide data that the DVR uses (which comes from a national source), or a SA8300 software issue (or some combination of both).

Do you, by chance, have an external drive?

No, I don't. It happened for two shows that I was recording at the same time. Each recorded 9 minutes and then stopped.

Thanks for the information.

Rich N.

[QUOTE=JasonWW]Raidbuck, that screen can be confusing. Once you picked what show to NOT record, did you check the guide to make sure the Closer was still highlighted to be recorded? It got me so mixed up I double checked just to make sure all my shows were still set to record.QUOTE]

What was weird is that it recorded the baseball game, not The Closer. As you noted, I didn't check. You live and learn.

Thanks,

Rich N.

Well, it's actually very easy to select the wrong program on that screen, I've done it myself. Sometime you scroll and press A thinking the scrolling stopped. Unfortunately, you don't always see that it scrolled just one more line X'ing the wrong program.

As for missing recordings, there can be many reasons; the particular software version (some are known to exhibit this problem - 1.88.19.1 loses recordings on the SA8000HD for example), the IPG data (particularly the title) changing from the time the recording was scheduled to the time the program aired, extraneous cable signals (hits or weak signal), etc.

The only times I was able to reproduce the problem here was with The Billionaire and The Rebel Billionaire a while ago and with The Tonight Show. The Billionaire sometimes contained "Rebel" in the title, sometimes not. The Tonight Show started at 10:35 every night except Tuesday (10:30). Others (Rogers Cable in Canada) have been able to repoduce it because their IPG sometimes added "HD" to some program titles, sometimes not.

I have not been able to reproduce the short time problem though. Since Nov 2004 I have used versions 1.85.23.1, 1.87.16.1, 1.88.19.1, and now 1.88.22.1 on the same SA8300HD. I have never missed a recording I could not trace to the above or me just making a mistake. Obviously, YMMV. :)

Comcast and Cox are adding Tivo.Dirct tv has a no sue contract with Tivo.Time Warner has signed several license agreements with them to use on it's Mystro software.It seems only Echostar is on the outside looking in.Tivo is being paid for its patents by all the other main players.

Maybe it's time to start a new thread on the Time Warner Digital Navigator with Mystro software.It seems more information becomeing available all the time.

Maybe. :)

FWIW, here are some things I found while testing 1.88.22.1 on an SA8240HD last night:
Ok, ....., this is definitely a problem that I believe can be reproduced at will. I tired to get a mix of network, premium, digital, and even PPV channels along with 2 at the same time and different times throughout the night. I scheduled recordings for Eureka and The Fog at 9:00 pm, She Hate Me at 1:45 am, Syriana at 11:30 pm, and Briana Loves Jenna at 12:00 am. I then shut the 8240 off at 9:20 pm. Here is what I have in the Recorded List this morning along with my suspicions as to cause:

These coincide with when I turned the 8240 off:
Eureka for 20 min
Eureka for 39 min
The Fog for 20 min
The Fog for 1:24 min

These coincide with the 8240 being off and staying off:
Syriana for 2:30 min
Briana Loves Jenna for 1:30 min

This may coincide with the Auto-Shutdown that happens early in the AM, like around 3:00 am:
She Hate me for 1:16 min
She Hate Me for 1:02 min

You can see that when I left the 8240 off for longer than like 15 minutes, the recordings in-progress were split. When the 8240 stayed off, the recordings were left intact. When the Auto-Shutdown occurred around 3:00 am, the recording was again split. I am only guessing at this last one, you'll have to see if you can confirm when the Auto-Shutdown actually occurred last night, if you can.

I got this via PM and thought I'd throw it out there for some ideas:
I get a dark picture on my TV when i watch TV through my new SA 8300 hd box, I have a brand new philips 17" lcd wide screen 17pf8946 model. I had returned the tv because of this problem. The brightness is turned all the way up and i cant see details on dark clothes etc. When i watch tv with out my SA 8300 the tv is very brite in analog mode. I used the setups on my box but this makes no difference. Have you seen this before? Can I do anything to fix this. My cable company says I have to live with this. (Atlantic broadband Miami beach FL, Thank you in advance. My email contact .......................... I'm unable to post on the AVS boards on my webtv.

I got this via PM and thought I'd throw it out there for some ideas:

Dave, I checked on this model TV - IT HAS NO COMPONENT INPUTS. It does have RGB connections for connection to a PC. The writer probably has some sort of adapter that really does not do the job.

The Phillips literature on this set is unclear - though they refer to a "High Definition" panel and refer to it being a "17 Flat Widescreen TV" - nowhere do they say that it is "HDTV Ready" or anything like that.

Here is spec sheet on the set:

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/1/17pf8946_12/17pf8946_12_pss_eng.pdf

Thanks Dave. I thought of that, but am suffering from jet-lag and just didn't pursue it, sorry. I'll see if I can't get some more info. Not sure why he can't post using WebTV. :(

Dave, after looking at that flyer, it really burns me that Phillips would put out such a set (and any dealer would sell it). All the earmarks of a 17" widescreen LCD HDTV, and no HD capability at all!

Can't disagree with you there. Thanks again for doing the research I should have done. :)

Can't disagree with you there. Thanks again for doing the research I should have done. :)

Yeh, but dealing with TVs is part of my business. So I'm happy to help.

Yes, it's a provider issue. SA provides a suite of features that can be enabled or disabled by the provider. You can look at the links in the first post of this thread and see examples of SA's software. I've heard of others in your area using the digital phone service and getting the caller ID on the cable box screen.This takes up application memory on the STB, so providers have to find ways of cutting out some features to make it all fit.

vegggas

Alrighty, I called Adephia; they have no clue. I tried to break down what I want to do, but they didn't have an answer/option for me.

So what I'm thinking is that I can connect the HDMI output to "something" then that option should be available. The question is, what can I use to fake the handshake?

This is only my second post so please forgive but I keep getting conflicting info.... Can the sa 8300hd output hdmi and component at the same time?? When I insert the hdmi cable the component goes blank??? Is there work around to obtain both Component and HDMI signal from SA8300 at same time?? Cablevision said no. Thanks very much in advance. Curt

This is only my second post so please forgive but I keep getting conflicting info.... Can the sa 8300hd output hdmi and component at the same time?? When I insert the hdmi cable the component goes blank??? Is there work around to obtain both Component and HDMI signal from SA8300 at same time?? Cablevision said no. Thanks very much in advance. Curt
This is the way I believe it to work.
The 8300 operates in two modes: Analog or Digital.
Analog Mode: Until a cable system gets everything working correctly with protecting it's content and HDCP, it's usually working in Analog mode, via the components. The HDMI signal is derived from the analog scaling and processing, and be output at the same time with STB protection. This was the common mode of operation until somewhat recently.
Digital Mode: Once all the content protection pieces fit (and other stuff?), the STB can operate in full digital mode. All signal processing and scaling is done in the digital domain to the digital output. The process will not allow a full digital path to be downconverted to analog at the same time, and it not allow the components to output an HD signal.

vegggas

So once in Digital mode the SA8300 will not allow analog signal to be output. But then why do I get an analog Composite video output signal (its just Component that gets cut-off)? Thanks again for any input.

So once in Digital mode the SA8300 will not allow analog signal to be output. But then why do I get an analog Composite video output signal (its just Component that gets cut-off)? Thanks again for any input.


Because the 8300 only has one video processor. If you wanted to output HDMI and component at the same time, it would need two scalers to output both images. Basically, it doesn't have enought digital horsepower.

I recorded a program with 14 day retention.

My wife wants to save it longer. I can't seem to find a way to change the retention time for a previously-recorded program.

Can someone help?

Thanks,

Rich N.

What software is running on your box?
On my SARA 1.88.22 it lets you change the save time to "until I erase", but I think even that has a time limit. Maybe 2 months? I can't say for sure.

I recorded a program with 14 day retention. My wife wants to save it longer. I can't seem to find a way to change the retention time for a previously-recorded program.Press "LIST". Highlight the program for which you want to change the save time, and press "SELECT". Scroll up to the "Change save time" option, and press SELECT. Scroll to the length of time you now want to keep the program for, and press SELECT.

Yeh, but dealing with TVs is part of my business. So I'm happy to help.Dave,
Southbeach5 responded to me via PM with the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ
Did you see I posted your query in theTips & Tricks thread? Did you read Dave Hancock's comments?



Thank you Dave. Next week I am going to borrow a computer so I can post messages on the board. I also can't post on raging bull and yahoo. Webtv told me it is a java problem that they are trying to repair. When I try to post a message the message goes into cyber space.

I need to give you more details about my problem. Sorry I was to general. The television is true HD only if connected through the VGA using an VGA to a Component Y pb pr adapter. My picture in the HD mode is true HD. Very detailed. I am not happy about putting the brightness control all the way up. I notice that on HD & non HD channels the bars on the side are very brite. The bottom info screen is also very brite. Only the picture is too dark. Once in a while (10% of the time) the picture comes through more brighter (almost normal with the brigtness control set to Max and this makes me believe the problem may be my cable company or maybe a problem in my new 8300 HD box. The tv was tested as working properly. I can't see details on dark clothes and other pictures. Live sports also. for Example. On the dark color Nascar cars I see complete black, but not the true dark color of the car.

I should have given you a better discription the first time. Thank you for your help. If I can't fix this I may try Direct TV to see if that corrects my problem. Thank you, Bart It seems to me the problem is in the VGA connection and his 8300 simply isn't dealing with it correctly. It could be the 8300 and I think he should try another one before going to DirecTV. I don't if anyone here has ever mentioned using a VGA adapter. Comments?

FWIW, here are some things I found while testing 1.88.22.1 on an SA8240HD last night:I've been able to recreate these problems at will. Anytime I have 2 recordings going at the same time (start/stop times can be different as long as they overlap) and turn the 8240 (digital-only version of the 8300) off, both recordings get split at that point. Any recording that overlaps the Auto-Shutoff time (3:00 am here) gets split and loses 3-4 minutes during the shutoff period. This may be the same problem some of you are having with earlier software versions. When I get rolled back to 1.88.19.1, I'll test all this again and report the results. Anyone else care to run the same tests?

JasonWW and jruhnke, thanks for your help. I'll try it tonight. As far as the version, I don't know. It is SARA though.

Rich N.

Raidbuck:
Also make sure your not playing the show already or it won't give you the option. Start playing another show and then you can change it.

What software is running on your box?
On my SARA 1.88.22 it lets you change the save time to "until I erase", but I think even that has a time limit. Maybe 2 months? I can't say for sure.There is no time limit using the "until I erase" option.

I've been able to recreate these problems at will. Anytime I have 2 recordings going at the same time (start/stop times can be different as long as they overlap) and turn the 8240 (digital-only version of the 8300) off, both recordings get split at that point. Any recording that overlaps the Auto-Shutoff time (3:00 am here) gets split and loses 3-4 minutes during the shutoff period. This may be the same problem some of you are having with earlier software versions. When I get rolled back to 1.88.19.1, I'll test all this again and report the results. Anyone else care to run the same tests?I tested having 2 recordings going on at the same time and turning off the 8300HD. Both shows kept recording. I am on 1.88.22.1. I will test recording during the Auto-Shutoff time (Power Saving Mode) which is around 1:15 am here. The DVR box stays on but the hard drive powers down and a flying logo says something like press any key to watch TV. I don't remember the exact message.

One problem that I have seen with the Power Saving Mode is that if you have a show that is paused the DVR forgets where you were and you have to start watching from the beginning again.

Russ,

Make sure you leave the box off for about 30-60 minutes. I can turn it off and back on too without a problem, but when I leave it off until the recordings finish (like going out to dinner), there are 2 of each. I've done it twice now.

Once I started 2 recordings at 9:00 pm. About half way through, I turned everything off and went to bed to watch something else. The next morning, there were 2 of each, the second started at the time I turned everything off.

The second time I accidently had 2 recordings scheduled at 11:00 am. That meant my wife couldn't switch channels, so she just turned everything off and took a nap :) until after 12:00 pm. When I got home, there were 2 of each. Again, the second started at the time she turned eveything off.

Concerning a channel that is having some difficulty and may not produce the proper turn on and turn off signal, does it make sense to use the guide feature, highlight the program, select record and then change the on and off time by 1 minute? Lets say change 8pm - 9pm to 7:59pm - 9:01pm. Would that make the recording manual and not rely on the programs on and off data?

Since my local ABC HD channel had problems last week I set it this week with the extra minute before and after and it IS recording this time. If that's the better way to go I may do all my programs like that. Or at least everything on that channel.

Can anyone comment on this?

If I understand your post correctly, yes, it does. Be advised though that some versions of the software will not retain the changes for future recordings if you are making the change to something you've scheduled on a recurring basis (season pass). You will have to make the changes again for the next recording day/time until you get the version that works correctly.

The changes may also adversely impact programs that you want to record before or after on the same channel.

ABC (Lost, DH, Grey's) and NBC (ER) have been notorious for adjusting their start/stop times to "hook" viewers. For example, ER generally starts 1 minutes early (X:59). If you want to record 2 programs on different channels before ER, that 1 minutes usually causes a 3-way conflict. I routinely adjust the start time of ER (x:00) and forego the first minute in order to record those 2 programs before ER.

AFAIK, version 1.88.19.1 (and perhaps others) retains the change to my weekly schedule so I don't have to worry about it once it's set. Ove the next month or so I'll be setting up my new schedules for the fall season and I'll see how it goes.

The advantage to using this method over a manual recording is that the recording retains the orginal title vs jsut saying "manual recording".

Concerning a channel that is having some difficulty and may not produce the proper turn on and turn off signal, does it make sense to use the guide feature, highlight the program, select record and then change the on and off time by 1 minute? Lets say change 8pm - 9pm to 7:59pm - 9:01pm. Would that make the recording manual and not rely on the programs on and off data?

Since my local ABC HD channel had problems last week I set it this week with the extra minute before and after and it IS recording this time. If that's the better way to go I may do all my programs like that. Or at least everything on that channel.

Can anyone comment on this?There are no turn on and turn off signals produced by a channel for a particular show. A show starts recording based on the start time and stops recording based on the end time. These times are provided from the guide, but you can override them when you schedule a program to be recorded. If a show stops recording before the end time there is a bug. Since the DVR uses start and end times from the guide, when a sporting event runs longer then it is scheduled you lose the last part of the sporting event. If the channel had sent turn on and turn off signals, the DVR would have recorded the full sporting event. Changing the start time or end time can come in handy for shows that start or end at unusual times. Dave provided a good example of how this could be used.

There are no turn on and turn off signals produced by a channel for a particular show. A show starts recording based on the start time and stops recording based on the end time. These times are provided from the guide, but you can override them when you schedule a program to be recorded.
I was just trying to figure this out. I missed a recording of Kyle XY last week and it seems the local TWC was having trouble on that channel at the time so I thought maybe there was a start signal that is sent through the show like a tag or something. Anyway, no big deal. I set my shows the same day usually as the shedules sometimes change. If manually setting the time is better, then that's what I'll do. Thanks.

Oh yea, Lost really screwed me a few times when they first started extending the times. I had no warning about that and it usually has the best stuff right at the end. Doh! :)
I assume the DVR shows the correct time for it or does it not? I haven't had my DVR long enough to find out, but believe me, that's one show you want to see in HD.

This is a silly question, but thanks for the endulgence.

I just got a new stereo and surround (Yamaha Rx-v2600/Bose) and my current SA 8000 box pretty much sux for a lot of reasons. I currently only have a SD TV but am planning on an LCD for Christmas in a couple of months.

If I go and get a 8300HD from TWC (formally adelphia), can I dumb-down the box to run against the SD tv until I get the new set? Will a standard S-Video connection show everything and is there any special tweaks necessary to do this? (We'll do the component video and/or HDMI with the new LCD later)

Will I still be able to retain Surround 5.1 detetection out via Optical and/or HDMI connections? (my new stereo supports both)

Thanks for the help!!

The 8300HD will work fine with what you currently have. There is nothing special you will have to do. Just hook it up the same way as you do now until you get the new TV. Unfortunatly the 8300HD pretty much sux for a lot of reasons too.

JasonWW,

A lot depends on which version of software you are using and how you schedule your programs:

Obviously, the One Episode option will simply record a single occurence of the program. This uses the IPG data to determine start/stop times, but those can be adjusted and should work okay.

The All Episode option currently (1.88.19.1) presents you with 3 sub-options:
1. On this channel any day in this time slot
2. First Run only on this channel
3. On this channel at any time

Option 1 will record a single occurence in the selected time slot any day the program shows up in the IPG. It will not record other occurences in different time slots. I haven't used this option in quite a while and in some software versions, this may not record the program if the time slot changes, even by a single minute. This option is useful though for prrograms like The Sopranos that are shown multiple times and for some reson you need to record a particular one to avoid conflicts with other recordings, but you don't want to record it every time it airs.

Option 2 will record programs that are flagged as New in the IPG (the flag is not displayed though). It uses the IPG data and will adjust start/stop times as they appear in the IPG. However, if the IPG data is wrong or the New flag is not there, the recording may be missed or the start/stop time incorrect. The start/stop times for Lost and DH used to vary from 1-4 minutes and all should record as reflected int he IPG from week to week.

Option 3 will record a program every time it is on a selected channel. This is useful if you simply don't want to take the time to check the program description, but want to make sure you get all episodes of something, like the often repeated stuff on channels like HGTV, Discovery, etc. You can record every episode and then just delete the ones you've already seen.

Gwarrior4u,

Get an 8300, set it up correctly, and you shouldn't have any problems. Even though I believe it and the 8000 now use the same software, the 8300 is much improved and if your cableco has the latest software, it is more than adequte to the task of recording 2 programs while letting you watch a previously recorded one. No, it's not a Tivo (which is what I assume Dennis is referring to), so the software/IPG are somewhat limited and inflexible (particularly the search function), but it's worked very well for me since Nov 2004 and continues to improve and provide more Tivo-like features with each software upgrade.

Jason,
I would use the IPG guide data. It's usually accurate and can be manipulated by the IPG to cover scheduled shows that run over if the networks submit the data to the service. That automatic IPG adjustment, if submitted ater you set up recordings, may also cause problems with failed recordings if you are recording multiple programs on different channels, then the end time is adjusted past it's normal time into the next hour block. Due to the new conflict because of the adjusted IPG, something won't record if both tuners are already in use when another scheduled recording is about to start.
As for your recording of KyleXY rot recording and TWC having problems. The 8000/8300 series DVR's don't record a dead signal from a digital channel. If the channel feed is cut, or the virtual channel data is missing, the recording will not start, or will get cut off. I think this is why the program didn't record for you that time.

vegggas

Russ,

Make sure you leave the box off for about 30-60 minutes. I can turn it off and back on too without a problem, but when I leave it off until the recordings finish (like going out to dinner), there are 2 of each. I've done it twice now.

Once I started 2 recordings at 9:00 pm. About half way through, I turned everything off and went to bed to watch something else. The next morning, there were 2 of each, the second started at the time I turned everything off.

The second time I accidently had 2 recordings scheduled at 11:00 am. That meant my wife couldn't switch channels, so she just turned everything off and took a nap :) until after 12:00 pm. When I got home, there were 2 of each. Again, the second started at the time she turned eveything off.I retested this and I only had one recording of each show. I started recording 2 shows about 8:17 PM last night and turned off the box at 8:20. The shows were 1 hour long and ended at 9:00 PM. They recorded all the way to the end without splitting into multiple recordings. I turned the box back on after the shows finished recording.

I wasn't able to test the recording during the Auto Shutoff time. I was watching a recording and the DVR didn't power down the hard drive. I will try that again tonight.

Russ,

I think the difference is that you simply "started" 2 recordings at 8:17 while I "scheduled" 2 recordings to start at 9:00. I then turned off the box at around 9:20. I turned the box back on in the morning and had 2 recordings of each. Both first parts were 20 minutes. Both second parts started at 9:21.

I also scheduled 2 recordings during the next day; one to start at 10:30 and the other to start at 11:00. The box got turned off at around 11:12. It was turned back on sometime after 12:00 and there were 2 recordings of each. The first part of one was 41 minutes and the first part of the second was 12 minutes. The second parts of both started at 11:12.

I know this can be a pain, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this if you are willing to give it another try. I can't set up another test myself because my box has been rolled back to the 1.88.19.1 version. However, I'm going to set up the same tests for that, but I don't expect the same results.

Anyway, would you be willing to set up another test? "Schedule" 2 programs that over lapfor at least one hour, preferrably ending at the same time. Then turn off the box about 15 minutes into the overlap period and leave it off until both recordings are finished.

EDIT 1:
I ran the same tests on the 1.88.19.1 version that was rolled back yesterday and got the same results. I'm now thinking the problem may be limited to the 8240 (digital-only version of the 8300) that I am testing or PPV channels, since one recording was always from a PPV channel. I'm running more tests as we speak, including on my original 8300 in the bedroom using 1.88.19.1, and will let you know the results.

EDIT 2:
The problems are definitely limited to the 8240. I ran them on my bedroom 8300 and had no problems. FWIW, there are problems in 1.88.19.1 that also affect just the 8000 and that is why it's not been released system-wide here in Phoenix. The problems with the 8240 may be the same, or at least related.

Thanks for your help Russ, it's always appreciated.

Here's another question for you guys, is it OK to run 2 of the 8300HD side by side? I think I can turn one on at a time and leave the other off so they don't see the same remote signal. It seems that I will be using these mainly for HD programs and they take up a lot of space compared to SD programs. I may even add an extra 300G HDD to the 2nd one to boost it's capacity.
Does this sound possible?
Or would it be possible to add an external HDD to my current box without it erasing all the data already stored on it's internal drive?

Both are possible. Adding a SATA drive to your current box should not cause any problems with what you already have recorded. It will only format the new drive and should then show the increased recording space, the current recordings should still be there.

Here's another question for you guys, is it OK to run 2 of the 8300HD side by side? I think I can turn one on at a time and leave the other off so they don't see the same remote signal. It seems that I will be using these mainly for HD programs and they take up a lot of space compared to SD programs. I may even add an extra 300G HDD to the 2nd one to boost it's capacity.
Does this sound possible?
Or would it be possible to add an external HDD to my current box without it erasing all the data already stored on it's internal drive?I run 2 8300HDs side by side and it works. You need to have a good signal for this to work without problems since you will have to split the signal. If you have problems after splitting the signal, you should consider a whole house amplifier. Houston TWC had already installed a whole house amplifier before I got the 8300HDs because I was having problems with Video on Demand not working properly several years ago. Houston TWC charged for the amplifier and the installation but I think it eliminated most of the problems that other people have reported with the 8300HDs. This allows you to record 4 programs at the same time and doubles the amount of storage. I have one turned on and the other one turned off. It works out good that the 8300HD can record when it is turned off. I have to be careful to make sure when I switch 8300HDs that only one stays on. You can add an external HDD to each 8300HD as needed.

Dave,

I retested using scheduled recordings and I only had one recording for each show. I tried the Auto Shutdown, but the Auto Shutdown menu never came on. I will retry that.

Thanks, Russ. I assume you saw the Edits to my previous post that said the problem appears to be limited to the 8240 and possibly the 8000.

When I tested the Auto-Shutoff, all I did was schedule a recording that overlapped that time period (3:03 here) and turned the 8240 off as usual before going to bed. I didn't stay up to see what happened or try to catch the notice or anything like that. I assume you will not have any problem either and I have the same test set up for tonight on the 8300 in the bedroom.

I find it really interesting that there is enough difference between the 8240 without an analog tuner, the 8300 with an analog tuner, and the older 8000 to cause problems to show up in one and not the other using the same software. FWIW, I don't know the specs, but the 8240 seems to be exactly like the 8300 with regard to PQ, responsiveness, etc. All it's missing is an analog tuner making it quite a bit cheaper for SA to make and cableco's to purchase. If there were a price break for subscribers, I'd opt for it over the 8300 just to save a bit.

Both are possible. Adding a SATA drive to your current box should not cause any problems with what you already have recorded. It will only format the new drive and should then show the increased recording space, the current recordings should still be there.
That's good to know.
I haven't had this new STB more than 2 months now, so i haven't read much of this thread. Does anyone remember anyone posting page 5 data from the service menu to see if the signal is strong? There is so much info to be found inside this box, maybe I could post a photo of page 5. Would anyone know how to decipher it?

I'm running an adjustable amp so I can turn the gain up or down if need be to make sure the signal stregnth is correct and that the S/R is low.

As long as none of the data is highlighted, levels are within norms and should be okay. The goal is to have a signal strength between -9 and +9, mine is -6 with a S/N of 35 for QAM-256 (it can vary from channel to channel though). If you start getting video artifacts or audio glitches, then it's time to check this data, otherwise it's just interesting information.

As long as none of the data is highlighted, levels are within norms and should be okay. The goal is to have a signal strength between -9 and +9, mine is -6 with a S/N of 35 for QAM-256 (it can vary from channel to channel though). If you start getting video artifacts or audio glitches, then it's time to check this data, otherwise it's just interesting information.
So the QAM-256 is the digital tuner info?
I sometimes get pixelation with scenes that hava a lot of data. Such as music crowds or when camera flashes go off. Sometimes even medium amounts of movement on the screen can cause a slight pixelated look for a instant or two and once the image becomes more static, then the sharpness comes back. It can be irritating at times. I've also noticed that turning the amp gain up or down doesn't seem to have any effect so it may be my local cable company having bandwidth problems, maybe. I would just like to know more about the signal stregnth to see if it's a problem at my house or not.

Would you say that if all the specs on page 5 are white, I should not be getting that pixelation and if I do it's probably in the signal before reaching my house?

Yes, QAM denotes a digital channel.

Pixelation can be normal in scenes with a lot of strobe or flash lighting.

Macroblocking is fairly standard, to one degree or another, on all fast-action sports.

Artifacts not resulting from poor signal levels can still be caused by over-compression, multicasting, etc. While signal levels are a good indicator of problems, there are a lot of other factors involved; splitters, old cabling, etc.

The best way to tell if it's just your setup is to find your local thread and see if anyone else is having similar problems. Sometimes it could be a bad box, sometimes it's the station itself. If only one channel is involved, they may be experiencing difficulties. If it's all over the map, then it might take a service call to pinpoint. If you have a splitter int he mix, sometimes it's simple to troubleshoot by temporarily removing the splitter to see if that helps. Unfortunately no one answer fits all. You can always post some info from page 5 and someone is sure to offer some comments.

You can also find some useful info on page 1. It also shows the signal level for the main tuner (Tuner 1), the analog tuner (FDC), and the return level (RDC). RDC shows how well your unit can communicate with the head-end for downloading updates, IPG data, etc.

Pages 3 & 17 show the software version your unit is using.

Page 5 adds S/N info.

Pages 18 & 33 show HDD info.

Pages 19 and 30 show H & V size and resolution.

I'm sure someone knows what much of the other info is, but I've never had a need to know, so I haven't a clue. :)

Dave,

I retested making a recording during the Auto Shutdown time. Both shows kept recording and did not create additional recordings. I tested it on 2 DVRs. One DVR was left on and the Time Warner Cable logo was on with the message to press any key. After pressing a key another message was displayed stating that the hard drive was powering up. The other DVR was turned off.

Cool, that pretty much narrows it down to the 8240 or some configuration at the head-end affecting only the 8240. FWIW, I recorded a couple of programs last night at different times and 1 split that I didn't think would, there was no reason I can find. The other split at the Auto-Shutoff again, as expected.

Yes, QAM denotes a digital channel.

Pixelation can be normal in scenes with a lot of strobe or flash lighting.

Macroblocking is fairly standard, to one degree or another, on all fast-action sports.

I don't always see it on fast-action sports. If it were normal and all HD channels were like that then everyone would be complaining, right?

I need to look into Macroblocking, maybe that's what's happening.

I just checked page 5 and the only thing colored is EQ Gain under CURRENT QAM which reads "unavailable". Sound like a problem?

Guess I'm going to have to dig in and read this whole thread.

Sometimes you have to look pretty hard to see the macroblocking, but it is almost always there on sports. I rarely notice it unless I see someone post a comment, then I will concentrate and it will be there.

As for EQ Gain, mine is "unavailable" too, so it's obviously nothing to worry about. :)

Be advised that I am no expert on all this, I'm just giving you my opinions, others may have a different view of all this. I've been vegetating on TV all day (catching up after vacation)and have not seen one instance of pixelation, whether I'm watching live or a recording, SD or HD. YMMV.

That's good to know.
I haven't had this new STB more than 2 months now, so i haven't read much of this thread. Does anyone remember anyone posting page 5 data from the service menu to see if the signal is strong? There is so much info to be found inside this box, maybe I could post a photo of page 5. Would anyone know how to decipher it?

I'm running an adjustable amp so I can turn the gain up or down if need be to make sure the signal stregnth is correct and that the S/R is low.
ANSI SCTE 40 2004 "Digital Cable Network Interface Standard" establishes "acceptable" levels:
Free download fm: http://www.scte.org/content/index.cfm?pID=59

Digital QAM carrier, STB Input Level: -12 to +15 dBmV for 256QAM and -15 to +15 dBmV for 64QAM.
Minimum S/N: 33 dB for 256QAM, 27 dB for 64 QAM and 43 dB for Analog. [Also known as C/(N+I).]

FDC QPSK carrier, STB Input Level: -15 to +15 dBmV
Minimum S/N: 20 dB

RDC QPSK reverse carrier, STB Output Level: +25 dBmV to +53 dBmV.
[+85 to +113 dBuV is specified in referenced ANSI SCTE 55-2 2002.]

Since the return loss back to the neighborhood node will vary depending on where you are
in the power divider/amplifier chain, the RDC value will be automatically adjusted for
more or less equal strength as received at the neighborhood node.
If the RDC is at MAX, it may have run out of oomph....

=======================================
CURRENT FDC (Forward Data Channel) refers to I-N channel used to download software
and program guide info to the DVR.
Level: Should be -15 to +15 dBmV
S/N: Should be 20 dB or more

CURRENT RDC (Reverse Data Channel) refers to I-N channel used to send the user's
PPV/On-Demand and other commands back to the neighborhood cable node.
Power: Varies depending on where you are in the cable power amplifier/divider chain
Delay: Signal Propagation Delay from DVR to neighborhood node (Q: One-way or Round-Trip?)

CURRENT QAM refers to the currently tuned video channel:
Level: Should be -12 to +15 dBmV for QAM256
S/N: Should be 33 dB (or more) for QAM256 [This is more important than level]
Seconds: How long this channel has been tuned
Corr Bytes: How many bytes were detected in error and corrected since first tuned
Uncor Blks: How many data blocks that failed parity check but could not be corrected
Errs Avg/Inst: Average and Instantaneous Bit (byte? block?) Error Rates

=========================================
Here's a pic of SARA SA8300HD Pg5:

Note that "EQ GAIN" is unavailable....I'm pretty sure that this means that SARA opted
not to display this tidbit of (mostly unnecesary) information.

On PASSPORT SA8300HD's there is a display called "MAIN TAP" and called "QAM MAIN TAP"
on SA3250HD, indicating the value of the largest equalizer tap gain setting.
Under ideal conditions, a "1.0000" indicates that all of the energy is found in the
main equalizer tap (and none in the echos).

Thanks for the info, I've added it to the first post.

Guys, just a simple question. I know I should read the whole thread but maybe someone can give me some quick help. I am coming from Replay TV where you could search by show title and all that show's listings would appear for the next couple of weeks. Is there anything similiar with the 8300.

If not, how do you guys do your searching? When I search w/i the guide, I only get listings for the rest of the day selected. Are there any multiday search options?

Help in Florida!
Michael

No multi day search, one day at a time only.

I use TitanTV. The lack of a decent search feature is probably 1 of the 2 biggest complaints about SARA, the other being the lack of a Wishlist. TitanTV provides 2 weeks worth of programming data. It allows full search functionality and a Wishlist via the Favorites feature. It will send email reminders, etc. Use of TitanTV frees me from being concerned about SARA's lack of Tivo-like features and allows me to search, etc., without interrupting my TV viewing. I also use HDTV Magazines daily email HD guide to make sure I don't miss anything. So, while everyone waits for the impending release of the (IMHO) over-priced S3 and the port of Tivo software to the 8300, I'm quite content with SARA, TitanTV, and HDTV Magazine. :)

Option 2 will record programs that are flagged as New in the IPG (the flag is not displayed though). It uses the IPG data and will adjust start/stop times as they appear in the IPG. However, if the IPG data is wrong or the New flag is not there, the recording may be missed or the start/stop time incorrect. The start/stop times for Lost and DH used to vary from 1-4 minutes and all should record as reflected int he IPG from week to week.



My problem with this option is that for many shows on some cable networks (Rescue Me, The 4400, Dead Zone, Eureka, etc etc) the many repeats of the first run shows get recorded anyway. Even shows where the first run is immediately repeated back-to-back, it gets recorded. My TiVo's guide data picks up the difference in the vast majority of the cases, but the 8300 is real bad at it.

-- Rich

IMHO, it's the IPG data that is incorrect and that shows when mulitple episodes are flagged as "new" even on TitanTV, etc.. I suspect Tivo's IPG data may be more correct, that's all, and that's why multiple epsiodes don't get recorded as often by Tivo. If that's not the case, I'm sorry, but I don't want a DVR to make a decision for me as to whether or not to record a second episode that may be incorrectly flagged as "new". What happens when it really is a new episode? If the IPG data is incorrent, I prefer the DVR just go with it and I will delete if I need to.

My TiVo's guide data picks up the difference in the vast majority of the cases

That's what you pay the TiVo monthly fee for. ;)

I thought that Tivo used the "NEW" flag from the data services and an internal description comparison to eliminate repeats. The data is from the same 2 providers as always.

vegggas

I have no idea, but it seems I've heard that too. FWIW, I've never had the 8300 record a duplicate program, even when the flag was wrong in TitanTV, and I can't believe my Cox IPG data is any better than anyone else's. I have "season passes" set for programs like SG1, Atlantis, The Dead Zone, The 4400, Eureka, The Closer, etc., all of which have had multiple episodes show up as "new" on TitanTV.

FWIW, I've never had the 8300 record a duplicate program.

I envy you! I have Astound (Wave BB) and I am constantly "cleaning up" my list of duplicate recordings that record in the middle of the night (1a,2a,3a) and other times that are not the time of the first run episode. The other day SciFi had a Eureka marathon and my 8300 recorded every one of them. Think it would do any good to broach the subject with Astound? Do they even have anything to do with the guide data and it's settings? I read here that recording too many is better than missing a first run episode due to incorrect guide data, which I agree with, but in my particular case, I feel the duplicate recordings are excessive.

-- Rich

We are in KC(TW) trying to get a 8300 to work with a Lumagen processor. This 8300 does not have the familiar "info/guide" access to the resolution set up menu. It has something similar in the user menu. Bottom line we cannotget the 8300 to output all resolutions. It is either 1080i only or1080i and 480p. The Lumagen has adjustment for EDID but nothing seems to work. We actually have two of this combo here with the same complication. Is there another service menu that is accessable? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks Dallas

Sometimes when you press Info/Guide, both A and B options are not displayed, but they are still there. You might try again and just press B (or A), even if it's not displayed as an option. Eventually, you should get to the screen that lets you enable/disable all formats.

Think it would do any good to broach the subject with Astound? Do they even have anything to do with the guide data and it's settings?Certainly broach the subject with Astound. They obviously get their IPG data from somewhere. All the 8300 software (both SARA and Passport) does is interface with the IPG provided by the cableco. The 8300 has nothing to do with the accuracy of the IPG data or where it comes from. I believe Cox here gets it's IPG data from Gemstar/TVGuide. While Astound doesn't have anything to do with the data directly, they can at least determine if the problem is system-wide and get with whomever supplies the data to get it corrected.

While it's certainly better to get all episodes to make sure you don't miss any, you shouldn't have to. You do know that you can set up a weekly recording for a particular timeslot to get just the episodes you want that way.

I thought that Tivo used the "NEW" flag from the data services and an internal description comparison to eliminate repeats. The data is from the same 2 providers as always.

vegggas

Yeh, but that doesn't keep TiVo from refining that info and correcting obvious errors. They ought to be doing something better to justify the price of their service.

Also, perhaps they use the other data source (I believe it is Tribune). I'm not sure who uses what - it seems that many cable systems use Gemstar/TV Guide.

Sometimes when you press Info/Guide, both A and B options are not displayed, but they are still there. You might try again and just press B (or A), even if it's not displayed as an option. Eventually, you should get to the screen that lets you enable/disable all formats.

Thanks! Unfortunately nothing occurs when you push "info/guide"? The second level of the user menu has a "resolution" setting,but as mentioned when we try to make changes it will only allow 1080i and 480p.
As mentioned we are using an outboard Lumagen processor with DVI inputs. It has adjustments in the EDID "idenity" settings. None seem to allow for native output of the cable box. It seems there are many variations of the 8300?

Thanks! Unfortunately nothing occurs when you push "info/guide"? The second level of the user menu has a "resolution" setting,but as mentioned when we try to make changes it will only allow 1080i and 480p.
As mentioned we are using an outboard Lumagen processor with DVI inputs. It has adjustments in the EDID "idenity" settings. None seem to allow for native output of the cable box. It seems there are many variations of the 8300?
No, actually there are not that many versions of the 8300 when talking about base functionality of the hardware. The HDTV resolution setup is part of the 8300's most basic instruction set independent of provider and software used.
To go over the basic steps again, you can't use the remote to enter the setup.
1) Power down the STB by pressing the power button on the FRONT PANEL
2) The GUIDE and INFO buttons have to be pressed and held for about 5 seconds on the FRONT PANEL OF THE STB, not the remote.
3) The STB's front pane display should now read "HD" and you should see a screen on the display telling you to press "B" or "A", depending on the current mode of the STB. At this point, if you can see the screen, you can use the remote.
4) If you do not see an image over DVI, then the EDID data is probably interfering with the output of the STB. Disconnect the DVI cable at the STB end and use component to test and set the resolutions. As a last resort, you can use SD composite video to see the screen, and manually just add all the resolutions, although you won't see the different outputs as it changes, since it's down converted to SD anyway.

vegggas

No, actually there are not that many versions of the 8300 when talking about base functionality of the hardware. The HDTV resolution setup is part of the 8300's most basic instruction set independent of provider and software used.
To go over the basic steps again, you can't use the remote to enter the setup.
1) Power down the STB by pressing the power button on the FRONT PANEL
2) The GUIDE and INFO buttons have to be pressed and held for about 5 seconds on the FRONT PANEL OF THE STB, not the remote.
3) The STB's front pane display should now read "HD" and you should see a screen on the display telling you to press "B" or "A", depending on the current mode of the STB. At this point, if you can see the screen, you can use the remote.
4) If you do not see an image over DVI, then the EDID data is probably interfering with the output of the STB. Disconnect the DVI cable at the STB end and use component to test and set the resolutions. As a last resort, you can use SD composite video to see the screen, and manually just add all the resolutions, although you won't see the different outputs as it changes, since it's down converted to SD anyway.


vegggas

Thanks again. Yeah we have used the "info/guide" access dozens of times on 8300s in our home base of Minnesota. We were working in KC last week. We tried to access the menu several times on two different 8300s to no avail. We did access the diagnostics screen? I am suspicious the KC units or software are different?
Actually at one point we did manage to get all resolutions to show up on one of the 8300s(user menu) after we turned set the EDID to "off" in the Lumagen. Unfortunatey it went away after a reboot and we could not get it back.
HDCP etc. is almost a daily hassle for us. Especially as both the displays and set top boxes evolve.

Thought I'd share this. I've long had an 8300 in my living room for my hi def set, and a Tivo in the bedroom. I'm considering getting a hi def set for the bedroom, so I went ahead and got another 8300 from my cable company (the cheaper price, dual tuners, and most especially the ability to use On Demand finally forced me away from good ol Tivo).
Anyway, once I got it all installed and started watching tv, I was amazed at how much better the picture quality is on the 8300. I know that Tivo converts video constantly as it works, but I never realized how much the picture was being degraded until I installed the 8300. It was almost like going from SD to HD, it reminded me of that feeling. Anyway, I do like the Tivo software better, but the 8300 is very hard to beat. Once Adelphia finally becomes Comcast, perhaps I'll have the option of having Tivo software on an 8300 or some similar hardware.

DN

Eventually you'll have the option anyway because Tivo software is being ported to the SA platform too. Thanks for the info though it really doesn't surprise me that the HD 8300 can outperform the SD Tivo in that situation. After all, the chipset should be better since it's newer and designed for HD. ;)

For the last 3 weeks, my cable reception on my 8300 SARA was showing a lot of pixelization and it kept losing HD channels: a reboot brought the channels back for a few hours

also have cablecards which showed a lot of pixelization and audio dropouts

The problem : the incoming cable signal was about 15 db higher than it used to be : Comcast must have changed something in the cable distribution system:it was overloading the stb and cablecards

I removed the Comcast installed amplifier and everything is OK (much better to have a 'hot' signal rather than a weak one, even if attenuators are needed for me)

Good point, Mark, sometimes cableco's are their own worst enemy. :) How did you notice the big change in incoming level? Were the levels in the diagnostic display off the chart?

Good point, Mark, sometimes cableco's are their own worst enemy. :) How did you notice the big change in incoming level? Were the levels in the diagnostic display off the chart?

It just never occurred to me that a hot signal was the problem:I always struggled with a weak cable signal at the end of a long street and always had amps at the cable feed

my contact at Comcast said they were having a lot of problems tuning the system and there have been a lot of total outages: I am guessing an amp was replaced on a nearby pole and the replacement must have a higher output

My clue came when I removed a splitter to feed a stronger system to one LCD and the problem got WORSE: then I started to look at signal levels and saw it right away: my Sharp LCD's have a pretty good signal level meter and I saw the signal jumping from over 90-100 (100 is max: you need at least 60 for capture)down to 20 and all over the place: this is how it responds with too strong a signal

Now the signal strength is stable at around 85

Thanks for the info, Mark. BTW, I like your signature, maybe I should heed it's advice more often. :)

...in KC last week...TWC-KC in the North/Leavenworth areas used PASSPORT 1.8.112 up through May when I left...
IIRC, there were some reports about 1080i only (other settings would not stick) over HDMI in one of the PASSPORT / OHIO / NYC threads.

v/r,
C-F

Good point. Even though the underlying setup firmware may set things up correctly, there is no reason SARA or Passport couldn't mess those settings up and that might be the real cause of the problem. But, it seems to me that they still should be able to preview each format, SARA or Passport shouldn't kick in until the setup stuff is complete. Unless I'm reading wrong, it doesn't seem like they are able to even get that much. They say they have powered off the 8300, but nothing happens when they press Info/Guide, this on 2 separate units. Do the units have to be provisioned correctly for the setup routine to work????

My 8300HD turned off and would not do anything accept pass the analog channels, which is what happened a week or 2 ago. So I did a soft reboot and waited 5 hours, and nothing. So I did a hard reboot and let it set overnight. 18 hours later I checked and it was now working. SO I'm going to swap this box as soon as my local office gets some more in.

JasonWW,
I believe your problem was likely caused by Digital signal being down. If the box can't talk to the head end, it will only pass the analogs. Trading boxes will only loose your existing recordings.

TerryB

TWC-KC in the North/Leavenworth areas used PASSPORT 1.8.112 up through May when I left...
IIRC, there were some reports about 1080i only (other settings would not stick) over HDMI in one of the PASSPORT / OHIO / NYC threads.

v/r,
C-F
As I recall the software was "Passport" version 2. something.
Perhaps it will improve as they update the software?
Patience being the key when it comes to cable providers?

I trust you know there is a Passport thread here and they may be of more help:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8399481#post8399481

JasonWW,
I believe your problem was likely caused by Digital signal being down. If the box can't talk to the head end, it will only pass the analogs. Trading boxes will only loose your existing recordings.

TerryB
That's like saying if you don't eat a meal every 8 hours you will die. Just doesn't make sense.

So if the digital cable part of the signal (not the internet part) gets turned off, the STB will power down completely (no lights on front) and you won't be able to play back any of your recorded shows from the HDD? Is it common for them to stay off for 24 or so hours at a time? I've never heard of this problem. Anyone else have this happen to them?

Jason,

I don't think Terry was implying that, he was just saying that if the box is working okay after a reboot, swapping boxes might not be necessary and you'll just end up losing whatever you have recorded for no reason. Also, I don't think we understood the extent of the problem. But, that still may be the right answer and it's easy enough to check, just disconnect the cable and see if you can still view recordings. I'd do it, but we're in the middle of a live movie right now. Don't forget that part of the DVR is the recording service that you pay for. I don't know exactly what that all encompasses and I've never tried disconnecting the cable to see what would happen, but it could be that the unit actually is useless if it can't talk to the head-end for some reason.

That's like saying if you don't eat a meal every 8 hours you will die. Just doesn't make sense.

So if the digital cable part of the signal (not the internet part) gets turned off, the STB will power down completely (no lights on front) and you won't be able to play back any of your recorded shows from the HDD? Is it common for them to stay off for 24 or so hours at a time? I've never heard of this problem. Anyone else have this happen to them?
The box is/was no longer being authorized. This is probably due to the communication frequencies, specifically the Forward Data Carrier and then the Return Data Carrier, not getting through to the STB, or at the very fringe of reception or too much intereference, etc. This is what makes them secure, and not worth stealing, since they don't work without continous rolling authorization from the headend. Use the first post to determine your levels, and focus on your connectors, barrels (wall plates) and fittings as the majot source of interference and signal attenuation. The internet frequencies for cable modems are scattered on various carrier frequencies and the modem ranges to find available carriers and data bandwidth.

vegggas

Jason,

I don't think Terry was implying that, he was just saying that if the box is working okay after a reboot, swapping boxes might not be necessary and you'll just end up losing whatever you have recorded for no reason. Also, I don't think we understood the extent of the problem. But, that still may be the right answer and it's easy enough to check, just disconnect the cable and see if you can still view recordings. I'd do it, but we're in the middle of a live movie right now. Don't forget that part of the DVR is the recording service that you pay for. I don't know exactly what that all encompasses and I've never tried disconnecting the cable to see what would happen, but it could be that the unit actually is useless if it can't talk to the head-end for some reason.
Not sure of the non-communication timeout's for various STB's, but there is some time that you can still use the equipment before it turns authorization off.

vegggas

Not sure of the non-communication timeout's for various STB's, but there is some time that you can still use the equipment before it turns authorization off.Does it take a reboot to get authorization back on or a call to the cableco?

Does it take a reboot to get authorization back on or a call to the cableco?
It depends on the failure point. At no point should a reboot work, unless the STB is overheating, which is caused by a high Return Data carrier and bad ventilation and should be corrected in the wiring anyway.
If you disconnect the cable, reconnecting the cable will restore communication. If your signal is marginal, variances in heat and humidity may be enough to lower the signal that last bit to drop the communication.

vegggas

Jason,

I don't think Terry was implying that, he was just saying that if the box is working okay after a reboot, swapping boxes might not be necessary and you'll just end up losing whatever you have recorded for no reason.
What constitutes a "reboot"? I called up TWC the first time and they had me do a soft reboot and it did not come back on after 10 minutes so they said the box was defective and to exchange it. I did a hard reboot and let it set for 4 hours and it somehow came back on.
Second time I did a soft reboot and gave it 6 hours and nothing so I did a hard reboot and left it alone overnight. When I woke up it was working. I don't think these are normal reboot times, does anyone else?

I went down to my local TWC place to get a 2nd DVR. I was going to start using it while I watched all my shows off the HDD, then I was going to turn the first one back in. I'm glad I didn't exchange it the first time when the tech support person told me to. I really would have lost all my shows.

I just can't have it go off for such a long time and so often. I was stuck here all Saturday with nothing to do. I couldn't watch any of the shows I recorded or watch any HD stuff. I also have a Motorola non-HD box and I don't recall any of the digital channels going out. My RR was still working as well. So I don't know what the hell is going on.

The box is/was no longer being authorized. This is probably due to the communication frequencies, specifically the Forward Data Carrier and then the Return Data Carrier, not getting through to the STB, or at the very fringe of reception or too much intereference, etc. This is what makes them secure, and not worth stealing, since they don't work without continous rolling authorization from the headend. Use the first post to determine your levels, and focus on your connectors, barrels (wall plates) and fittings as the majot source of interference and signal attenuation. The internet frequencies for cable modems are scattered on various carrier frequencies and the modem ranges to find available carriers and data bandwidth.

vegggas
On page 5 of the 8300HD service menu it shows the
FDC level at -2dBmV
S/N 16 dB

QAM level at +2dBmV
S/N 34 dB

I was thinking that was pretty good. Also the support tech did not say my authorization was turned off. Isn't that something they should check automatically?

Those are good levels, but were they measured when the box was not working?
Had a similar situation when a user had his cable going through his VCR/DVD recorder first. Whenever he turned on the Recorder, it cut the signal going to the STB. Also, if you are in a multiple dwelling unit, neighbors could be doing something that is affecting the signal too.

vegggas

Those are good levels, but were they measured when the box was not working?

I did go in there and look when it was not powering up. I'm trying to remember. I think both of those tuners had 0 data on them, like no signal at all. I thought at the time it was because the box was powered down. My other STB was working fine. They share an amplified splitter, BTW.

The first time this happened I took the DVR over to another room and hooked the cable from the line outside directly into the DVR (no splitters, connectors, nothing) Tried a soft reboot like someone suggested and it didn't work.

This all started on post #3587 if you want to take a look.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8306636&&#post8306636

In re-reading my old posts I mention that the FDC part was showing a signal level of -7. I believe the QAM had some info as well, but I didn't pay attention to it.

In re-reading my old posts I mention that the FDC part was showing a signal level of -7. I believe the QAM had some info as well, but I didn't pay attention to it.
If you scroll back to post #3662, you'll see that FDC should have a MINIMUM SNR of 20 dB, whereas your level was 4 dB below minimum.
This could be indicative of intermittent operation of the FDC channel.
Although the level is acceptable, there may be interference leaking in on the FDC frequency....
If you can't fix it by cleaning and reseating your cable connectors, sounds like you need a visit by a cable service tech....

Jason,

Since you have another box and did not notice a problem with it, I doubt the digital service was out. It sure sounds like something is wrong with your signals from time to time. A hard reboot will redownload the firmware, if needed, whereas I don't believe a soft reboot does. Recovery times vary depending on what needs to be done, but it sure looks like your RDC levels, etc., are causing a disconnect between the 8300 and the head-end at times. Eventually the signal gets back to within range and the needed communication then takes place. As long as the levels remain okay, everything works until the cycle is repeated.

If it were me, I'd check all the connectors, including those behind the wall plate (I learned the hard way). I'd also take the amplifier out of the loop for the unit that is failing and see what happens. The amp could be failing on one leg for some reason. I'd also periodically check all signal levels and make notes. If the problem reoccurs, I'd note the current levels and call for service requesting that they also bring a new box to help troubleshoot.

If you scroll back to post #3662, you'll see that FDC should have a MINIMUM SNR of 20 dB, whereas your level was 4 dB below minimum.

OK, I didn't realize it should be 20 dB or more. I thought the lower the number the better.

OK, I checked my levels right now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v335/JasonWW/Misc%205/9-11SARAamponhigh.jpg

The FDC S/N was only 12. So I turned down the amp gain to about 70% and noticed that the S/N went up quite a bit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v335/JasonWW/Misc%205/9-11SARAampat70.jpg

Maybe this will fix my problem.

Funny thing, after several minutes I kept watching the FDC S/N and after changing channels it went back down to between 9 and 12 dB. Even with the amp gain all the way down, the S/N would not go up. So I added a splitter to the feed and attached the DVR cable to the splitter so it bypassed the amp. I still have the amp to boost the analog stations for the VCR's. The signal levels went down some, but are still within spec.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v335/JasonWW/Misc%205/9-11SARAampbypassed.jpg

So far the FDC S/R has stayed above 24 dB. I'll keep checking it periodically.

I know there was earlier discussion of issues with using JVC DVHS connected via 1394 to the 8300HD. Has anyone had success with recording to a JVC 40K without the video locking up on the JVC. If so what version of the SARA do you have that works. My JVC 40K when connected to my 8300HD with SARA 1.88.19.1 locks up after a few seconds on both channels flagged for record freely as well as those flagged for record once. I didn't have any similar issues when using a SA3250 HD STB.

Update - I tried unplugging both the 8300HD and JVC 40K to force a reboot of both. Now I cannot get any video across the 1394 into the JVC, although the 1394 connection is recognized as working by the JVC 40K and 8300HD maintenance menu shows the 1394 port is enabled.

Ron Jones
on Cox Communications cable in Fairfax, VA

When using the SARA software, if I want to use the firewire ports, what does it have to say in 1394 Information.

Right now, I have everything unavailable on that page, as well everyting regards to 1394 on other pages. Plugging the box into my computer, it shows up, but I don't get any sorta DV signal from the box. Do I have to call TWC-Rochester and complain some more to see if they can get me a box with working firewire? What should I be seeing for 1394 if it has the settings?

AFAIK, you need a 1.88.x.x version of SARA to begin with, but even if the ports are working, I don't believe they will work with a PC as PC's are not compliant devices. I could be wrong, but I believe 1394 only works with DVHS recorders and other compliant devices, though I don't know of any others off-hand.

OK, so the beloved Tivo is out now, so go rush out and get it...
What, it's too expensive? But it's a Tivo and that's what you wanted, right?

So, the short list of "non-features":
No Tivo To Go
No streaming video to or from the S3
No Archiving
No season pass or scheduled recording of cable channels without a cable card
No Lifetime service (excpet $200 tranfer of existing service)
No On Demand or VOD or PPV content
No Multiroom Viewing
No Adjustable Zoom
No faster GUI than SA and MOTO
No SATA expansion - efuture service release

When do the S4 rumors start?

vegggas

question. is setting my 8300 to pass through so that it has to rescan everytime the box changes from 720p to 1080i bad for my tv in any way?

question. is setting my 8300 to pass through so that it has to rescan everytime the box changes from 720p to 1080i bad for my tv in any way?

it will not hurt your TV but it adds delay and is a pain for me: I gave that up and just set the output to 1080i

So currently there is no way to extract video files to a PC? The only way it capture to vcr or d-vhs?

Is there a way to use the USB inputs to connect an external DVD recorder drive to this box? I know sony makes a DVDirect drive that has composite input to be able to record directly from an external device w/o the need for a PC but since these have USB inputs, can those be utilized and maybe use a cheaper DVD recorder drive?

If not, is there anything else like the sony drive (other than a regular dvd player/recorder)?

AFAIK, you need a 1.88.x.x version of SARA to begin with, but even if the ports are working, I don't believe they will work with a PC as PC's are not compliant devices. I could be wrong, but I believe 1394 only works with DVHS recorders and other compliant devices, though I don't know of any others off-hand.

The recording thread seems to suggest that with SARA software with 1.88.xx (which I have), it should be possible, but it seems the ports are disabled. Is there anyway to know for sure? (if someone who has this setup working can tell me what their diagonstic screen says.)

OK, so the beloved Tivo is out now, so go rush out and get it...
What, it's too expensive? But it's a Tivo and that's what you wanted, right?

So, the short list of "non-features":
No Tivo To Go
No streaming video to or from the S3
No Archiving
No season pass or scheduled recording of cable channels without a cable card
No Lifetime service (excpet $200 tranfer of existing service)
No On Demand or VOD or PPV content
No Multiroom Viewing
No Adjustable Zoom
No faster GUI than SA and MOTO
No SATA expansion - efuture service release

When do the S4 rumors start?

vegggas

Many of the things you listed were never promised in the first place (e.g. adjustable zoom???) or well known (e.g. VOD) before the the announcement. And while some functions like Tivo to Go are important to a small number of Tivo owners, the vast majority simply wanted a Tivo interface for HD. The fact that it's THX-certified is an indication of high quality, and the opportunity to get rid of the wretched SA8300 non-user interface is added bonus.

Tivo is the only piece of electronics gear that I have ever purchased that my wife actually loves and is exuberant about -- others are hated or at best merely tolerated. Trying to explain the SA8300 DVR operation to her brought frowns and sarcastic comments. Being able to actually enjoy HD recorded programming and maintain marital harmony may not be worth $799, but it's definitely worth something. :)

question. is setting my 8300 to pass through so that it has to rescan everytime the box changes from 720p to 1080i bad for my tv in any way?
No. Depending on your TV it can look better or worse than the STB doing the conversion. All the guys with the new Sony A2000 set let the signal pass through as the TV does a better job at upconverting and the picture looks much better.

If your particular TV is not good at upconverting then you can have the STB do the conversion. I would suggest trying both and seeing what looks better.

Being able to actually enjoy HD recorded programming and maintain marital harmony may not be worth $799, but it's definitely worth something. :)I see vegggas got at least one of you hook, line, and sinker. I suppose you already ordered your S3 and will be joining the new S3 thread as soon as your unit arrives. :)

I see vegggas got at least one of you hook, line, and sinker. I suppose you already ordered your S3 and will be joining the new S3 thread as soon as your unit arrives. :)

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I will admit that I am very tempted. I think that it's the engineering elegance especially when compared to the significant lack thereof in the 8300 that attracts me. At $500, I'd jump in, but at $799, even as a Tivo lover, I'll admit I'm having a hard time. :)

Well, that's the crux of it, isn't it? You, like so many others, want a Tivo at a cable price. I think someone in the S3 thread figured out that with a transferred lifetime subscription, it will take about 5.2 years to pay for an S3. I guess the point is to accept what is, not what could be. The 8300 improves with each release and sooner or later it to will have the Tivo interface with no cash outlay. Then, too, there should be other players in the game by then, so I am content to wait. FWIW, my wife has no problems with the 8300, so marital harmony costs me nothing, and she loves being able to record her favorite shows. ;)

My wife knows how to run the 8300 better than I do. But I do dazzle her with tricks from the forum. Like I knew about the new features like quad speed FF/REW before she noticed them.

ROTFLMAO!!!! :) :d :)

OK, so the beloved Tivo is out now, so go rush out and get it...
What, it's too expensive? But it's a Tivo and that's what you wanted, right?

So, the short list of "non-features":
No Tivo To Go
No streaming video to or from the S3
No Archiving
No season pass or scheduled recording of cable channels without a cable card
No Lifetime service (excpet $200 tranfer of existing service)
No On Demand or VOD or PPV content
No Multiroom Viewing
No Adjustable Zoom
No faster GUI than SA and MOTO
No SATA expansion - efuture service release

When do the S4 rumors start?

vegggas
Don't forget that since it uses one-way only CabeCARD, it will not be able to tune the new SDV (Switched Digital Broadcast) channels as they are turned on later this year and next....whenever they decide to issue a 30-day notice that additional channels will be unavailable to CableCARD users...

And you're going to miss the explosion of OnDemand DVD's and other IPTV type services that are coming on line....(no, not just the junky OnDemand services currently available via prototype SDV servers)...

TWC-SC (South Carolina) is testing SDV and hence numerous channels are not available to CableCARD users:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8328588#post8328588

Also of interest is the lack of any announcement from TIVO re whether the Series 3 will be upgradeable (and for what cost???) for the two-way capable M-CARD which have recently been certified with M-CARD capable STB's running the new OCAP operating system.

You might find the fol. OCAP article of interest, esp for those systems that will begin tests this year (and next) using the new two-way M-CARD:
http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA6366125.html?industryid=43679

Although it is possible that TIVO will write their own software to use M-CARD, it is perhaps more likely that they will adopt the industry-wide OCAP standard whenever it is finished and released....or maybe they will wait for the software-only DCAS (Downloadable Conditional Access System).....and whether these improments will ever be made available for the Series 3....and if not, in a couple years you'll have a very expensive DVR that can only watch half the channels....

Sorry to see you stoop to such measures, vegggas. I kind of liked it when you were an impartial fountain of information. Too bad...

OK, so the beloved Tivo is out now, so go rush out and get it...
What, it's too expensive? But it's a Tivo and that's what you wanted, right?

So, the short list of "non-features":
No Tivo To Go
No streaming video to or from the S3
No Archiving
No season pass or scheduled recording of cable channels without a cable card
No Lifetime service (excpet $200 tranfer of existing service)
No On Demand or VOD or PPV content
No Multiroom Viewing
No Adjustable Zoom
No faster GUI than SA and MOTO
No SATA expansion - efuture service release

When do the S4 rumors start?

vegggas


And despite those items you've listed above, it's still a far and away better box than anything SA or Moto can roll out. In terms of features, reliability, and ease of use, it simply destroys the Mickey Mouse POS that is the 8300.

Just so you know, CableLabs has not allowed TiVo to implement many of features listed above. TiVo had to disable them in order to comply with CableLabs draconian decrees. It's not that TiVo couldn't or wouldn't port the functionality to the new box. This applies to TiVo To Go (which is archiving, not sure why you listed it twice), MultiRoom Viewing (which is the same as streaming, again not sure why you listed it twice).

Other of your "facts" are simply wrong. You can record without CableCards just fine, with a SeasonPass, WishList or manual recording just fine. Just not encrypted QAM stuff.

eSATA will be available in a future software release.

Seems TiVo had to spend far too much time jumping through CableLabs hoops to get final approval for the box.

Well, that's the crux of it, isn't it? You, like so many others, want a Tivo at a cable price. I think someone in the S3 thread figured out that with a transferred lifetime subscription, it will take about 5.2 years to pay for an S3. I guess the point is to accept what is, not what could be. The 8300 improves with each release and sooner or later it to will have the Tivo interface with no cash outlay. Then, too, there should be other players in the game by then, so I am content to wait. FWIW, my wife has no problems with the 8300, so marital harmony costs me nothing, and she loves being able to record her favorite shows. ;)

Nope. I want something that's usable and reliable at the price that the cable consortium dictates that I spend for such a privilege. Not some steaming pile that works when it wants to (which is not too often).

8300's improving, eh ? With perhaps one minor release passed out to customers a year, it's just a marvel of engineering, right ? How many people are still without proper series recordings, VCR output, HDMI connectivity, eSATA support ? Yeah, sure the 8300 is improving. We might actually get a functional box by 2012.

When you think about it, how much does an 8300 cost ? My guess would be $500-600 for the box. The only difference here is that I can lease the 8300 from my cableco, but can buy the S3 outright. The prices of the boxes aren't that radically different.

Don't forget that since it uses one-way only CabeCARD, it will not be able to tune the new SDV (Switched Digital Broadcast) channels as they are turned on later this year and next....whenever they decide to issue a 30-day notice that additional channels will be unavailable to CableCARD users...

And you're going to miss the explosion of OnDemand DVD's and other IPTV type services that are coming on line....(no, not just the junky OnDemand services currently available via prototype SDV servers)...

TWC-SC (South Carolina) is testing SDV and hence numerous channels are not available to CableCARD users:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8328588#post8328588

Also of interest is the lack of any announcement from TIVO re whether the Series 3 will be upgradeable (and for what cost???) for the two-way capable M-CARD which have recently been certified with M-CARD capable STB's running the new OCAP operating system.

You might find the fol. OCAP article of interest, esp for those systems that will begin tests this year (and next) using the new two-way M-CARD:
http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA6366125.html?industryid=43679

Although it is possible that TIVO will write their own software to use M-CARD, it is perhaps more likely that they will adopt the industry-wide OCAP standard whenever it is finished and released....or maybe they will wait for the software-only DCAS (Downloadable Conditional Access System).....and whether these improments will ever be made available for the Series 3....and if not, in a couple years you'll have a very expensive DVR that can only watch half the channels....

And that's the crux of the problem, even though you haven't directly stated it.

The FCC instructed to make CableCard technology available to end users, to give those users the opportunity to choose the manner in which they watch TV, not the way the cableco wants them to watch it. The cablecos have very reluctantly done so, kicking and screaming along the way. They've fought it at every turn. Hell, CableCard 1.0 was introduced how long ago ? 10 years ?

TiVo waited for CableCard 2.0, but the cableco's dragged that process along as well, trying to get the technology and will to implement it to die on the vine. They've almost succeeded. TiVo decided that rolling out some form of product was better than not rolling one out at all, so they rolled the dice and went with what was available in CableCard 1.0.

TiVo has made it clear that the S3 will not support CableCard 2.0, whenever it becomes available. That would require hardware changes. Tivo can't even begin to start working on a CableCard 2.0 box since the spec hasn't been finalized yet. It would be foolhardy for them to chase such a moving target.

Even now, they're trying some end-runs to get around CableCard. SDV breaks CableCard in general, not just TiVo's implementation of it. OCAP is another pie-in-the-sky idea by the cableco's to circumvent CableCard.

...When you think about it, how much does an 8300 cost ? My guess would be $500-600 for the box. The only difference here is that I can lease the 8300 from my cableco, but can buy the S3 outright. The prices of the boxes aren't that radically different.

Cable Co HD DVR
$500 leased at $10/month = 50 months = 4.1 years
Pros: If it breaks, goes flaky or bad Hard Drive = 1-2 day replacement no cost!
Cons: UI, featureset not lavish but has all the basics to get the programs.

TIVO (I'm not sure on the S3 pricing or monthy/year/lifetime "service fee)
For arguments sake:
$500 to own it (who thinks you'll use it as your main DVR for more than 4 years?)
Pros: Great UI and bells and whistles, a touch more reliable?
Cons: It breaks you buy another or deal with Mfg warranty. Does Tivo push firmware updates that the average Joe can easily implement.

NOTE: These are my opinions as a user of a SA8300HD box and someone who bought the original ReplayTV DVR and returned it within 30 days (cost / month depeciation verse cable co box rental got to me, pure economics). I do not have upto date exact data / numbers for each topic above but I believe the precise numbers do not affect the argument.

You just can't resist, can you Paul? All you have to do is read some of dravenstone's posts to see what a Tivo user thinks of his 8300 with the 1.88.19.1 software to see that you are so blinded by your hatred of the 8300 and your cableco. I can't help it if you don't have the software others do and it's not the boxes fault either. I hope you are still around when Tivo finally finishes their port to the 8300, you shouldn't be allowed to lease one since you think the box is such a POS. :)

As for vegggas, he simply pointed out some of the deficiencies in an $800 box. Someone did the math and said it will takle 5.2 years to recoup the cost of the S3 plus the the transfer of a lifetime subscription. Thank you, but I'll pass. A lot canl happen in that 5.2 years. I also find it ironic that you offer nothing more here than bashing the 8300, but as soon as someone even hints that your beloved Tivo may not be all it's cracked up to be, you can't deal with it. My, my, but you are a one-way type of guy, aren't you?

Cable Co HD DVR
$500 leased at $10/month = 50 months = 4.1 years
Pros: If it breaks, goes flaky or bad Hard Drive = 1-2 day replacement no cost!
Cons: UI, featureset not lavish but has all the basics to get the programs.

TIVO (I'm not sure on the S3 pricing or monthy/year/lifetime "service fee)
For arguments sake:
$500 to own it (who thinks you'll use it as your main DVR for more than 4 years?)
Pros: Great UI and bells and whistles, a touch more reliable?
Cons: It breaks you buy another or deal with Mfg warranty. Does Tivo push firmware updates that the average Joe can easily implement.

NOTE: These are my opinions as a user of a SA8300HD box and someone who bought the original ReplayTV DVR and returned it within 30 days (cost / month depeciation verse cable co box rental got to me, pure economics). I do not have upto date exact data / numbers for each topic above but I believe the precise numbers do not affect the argument.

Your facts are likely correct, but you took a different tack on my post than I intended. The cost of manufacture of the boxes aren't that different.

TiVo has stated that they're not subsidizing the cost of the S3 (as they do with the S2), so they're selling it at a break even point and hope to make their money on the monthly service fee.

The cableco's buy the boxes outright from the manufacturers and hope to make their money on lease fees to end users.

Boxes cost the same, but there's two different business models upon how to extract money from the customer's wallet.

You just can't resist, can you Paul? All you have to do is read some of dravenstone's posts to see what a Tivo user thinks of his 8300 with the 1.88.19.1 software to see that you are so blinded by your hatred of the 8300 and your cableco. I can't help it if you don't have the software others do and it's not the boxes fault either. I hope you are still around when Tivo finally finishes their port to the 8300, you shouldn't be allowed to lease one since you think the box is such a POS. :)

As for vegggas, he simply pointed out some of the deficiencies in an $800 box. Someone did the math and said it will takle 5.2 years to recoup the cost of the S3 plus the the transfer of a lifetime subscription. Thank you, but I'll pass. A lot canl happen in that 5.2 years. I also find it ironic that you offer nothing more here than bashing the 8300, but as soon as someone even hints that your beloved Tivo may not be all it's cracked up to be, you can't deal with it. My, my, but you are a one-way type of guy, aren't you?

I corrected vegggas' misinformation. In many instances, he was flat out wrong. I didn't want anyone coming around here and getting wrong information.

I'm also glad to see that I can still discuss points of issue without getting personal, unlike yourself. Try to keep yourself together and not get too irate... You tend to do that when someone disagrees with you.

As for why I post here... Why should I post when anyone strolls in here and asks why something on the 8300 doesn't work ? That's your job, which you seem to relish. I simply don't have the time to post hundreds of posts a week about why the 8300 is not working as it should. Apparently, you do.

If you choose to pass on S3.. Fine, do so. However, don't go around spreading FUD about something you have no idea about. That's why I post here.

Sorry to see you stoop to such measures, vegggas. I kind of liked it when you were an impartial fountain of information. Too bad...

And despite those items you've listed above, it's still a far and away better box than anything SA or Moto can roll out. In terms of features, reliability, and ease of use, it simply destroys the Mickey Mouse POS that is the 8300.

Just so you know, CableLabs has not allowed TiVo to implement many of features listed above. TiVo had to disable them in order to comply with CableLabs draconian decrees. It's not that TiVo couldn't or wouldn't port the functionality to the new box. This applies to TiVo To Go (which is archiving, not sure why you listed it twice), MultiRoom Viewing (which is the same as streaming, again not sure why you listed it twice).

Other of your "facts" are simply wrong. You can record without CableCards just fine, with a SeasonPass, WishList or manual recording just fine. Just not encrypted QAM stuff.

eSATA will be available in a future software release.

Seems TiVo had to spend far too much time jumping through CableLabs hoops to get final approval for the box.
OK, I'll play... Effectively, it is the same box as the Moto and SA units, just using a different software base.
I know about the cable labs stuff, and the reason those features are not enabled is beause they haven't proved that the content is protected in those features and that it isn't easily hacked, breaking the protection scheme. Ever heard of digital cable being hacked? No. Ever heard of a Tivo getting hacked? All the time.
Go ahead and try recording a season pass or a wishlist on a QAM (in the clear) system without a cable card. It doesn't work. It needs the CVCT mapping from the cablecard to know what the channel number and frequencies are.

vegggas

Moderator

If you disagree with something posted, challenge the information: NOT THE POSTER

Just to let everyone know, My original post above was in response to MANY PM's and EMAILS saying that the Tivo was out and that it had all those features included, and that they were taking their 8300 back today (yesterday).
As much as has been promised on delivery, it's not there - yet. The same could be said for Moto and SA.
vegggas

Seems TiVo had to spend far too much time jumping through CableLabs hoops to get final approval for the box.

So now the shoe is on the other foot.

When any one here tries to defend the shortcomings of the SA8300 due to Tivo patents people don't want to hear of it.

But you have no problem blaming the shortcomings of the Series 3 on CableLabs.

Simply replace CableLabs with Tivo, and Tivo with SA in your quote and you have the following.

Seems SA had to spend far too much time jumping through Tivo hoops to get final approval for the box.

Interesting.

OK, I'll play... Effectively, it is the same box as the Moto and SA units, just using a different software base.
I know about the cable labs stuff, and the reason those features are not enabled is beause they haven't proved that the content is protected in those features and that it isn't easily hacked, breaking the protection scheme. Ever heard of digital cable being hacked? No. Ever heard of a Tivo getting hacked? All the time.
Go ahead and try recording a season pass or a wishlist on a QAM (in the clear) system without a cable card. It doesn't work. It needs the CVCT mapping from the cablecard to know what the channel number and frequencies are.

vegggas

But TiVo's copy protection was fine for the FCC, was it not ? That's how these features were rolled out in the first place. So, CableLabs is placing itself on higher moral ground than the FCC as far as copy protection is concerned ? That's borderline laughable. I believe this is purely a stunt by CableLabs to stunt TiVo's growth, and impede their progress.

Wow, no CVCT, huh ? No CableCard, huh ? Then please instruct me as to how QAM HDTV tuners (such as my LG 4100) could tune and display unencrypted QAM ? No CableCard there, and yet I could watch QAM HDTV with it. All I had to do was a channel scan and up they appeared. If the LG can do it, why can't TiVo ?

So currently there is no way to extract video files to a PC? The only way it capture to vcr or d-vhs?
Is this correct?

And that's the crux of the problem, even though you haven't directly stated it.

The FCC instructed to make CableCard technology available to end users, to give those users the opportunity to choose the manner in which they watch TV, not the way the cableco wants them to watch it. The cablecos have very reluctantly done so, kicking and screaming along the way. They've fought it at every turn. Hell, CableCard 1.0 was introduced how long ago ? 10 years ?

TiVo waited for CableCard 2.0, but the cableco's dragged that process along as well, trying to get the technology and will to implement it to die on the vine. They've almost succeeded. TiVo decided that rolling out some form of product was better than not rolling one out at all, so they rolled the dice and went with what was available in CableCard 1.0.

TiVo has made it clear that the S3 will not support CableCard 2.0, whenever it becomes available. That would require hardware changes. Tivo can't even begin to start working on a CableCard 2.0 box since the spec hasn't been finalized yet. It would be foolhardy for them to chase such a moving target.

Even now, they're trying some end-runs to get around CableCard. SDV breaks CableCard in general, not just TiVo's implementation of it. OCAP is another pie-in-the-sky idea by the cableco's to circumvent CableCard.

SDV is en extension of the current system and CAN be integrated into two way systems and cable card. SDV is just streamed data converted to QAM at the edge that is REQUESTED by the user with a return path system. Tivo did NOT even attempt to use a return path system in their units that can be updated with specific firmware or software later. And yes, other manufacturers have shown 2.0 capable systems as early as over a year ago, Like Panasonic. Even though the communication standards are not fully worked out, all involved parties know that a return path is needed by the host device to make SDV and CC2.0 to work.

vegggas

So now the shoe is on the other foot.

When any one here tries to defend the shortcomings of the SA8300 due to Tivo patents people don't want to hear of it.

But you have no problem blaming the shortcomings of the Series 3 on CableLabs.

Simply replace CableLabs with Tivo, and Tivo with SA in your quote and you have the following.

Seems SA had to spend far too much time jumping through Tivo hoops to get final approval for the box.

Interesting.

Nice try, but not quite. TiVo wants to play by the rules, and wants to license the technology. They're being impeded by the licensing entity (in this case, CableLabs) in pursuing that goal. CableLabs is dragging their feet, to TiVo's disadvantage. It's not in their best interest to facilitate a competitor's product. Unfortunately for the CableLabs, the FCC has mandated that they support this technology. So, they do so, begrudgingly.

As far as the flip side of the coin, SA is lazy, cheap, unwilling (or all three) in that they have no interest in licensing a technology from TiVo. They think that their implementation is just fine as is, and have no desire to improve upon it. TiVo has not dragged its feet or turned down any such request from SA. There simply has been no request.

The difference, which you've failed to recognize, is that in one scenario there's willingness to deal, and in the other, there isn't. Simple.

SDV is en extension of the current system and CAN be integrated into two way systems and cable card. SDV is just streamed data converted to QAM at the edge that is REQUESTED by the user with a return path system. Tivo did NOT even attempt to use a return path system in their units that can be updated with specific firmware or software later. And yes, other manufacturers have shown 2.0 capable systems as early as over a year ago, Like Panasonic. Even though the communication standards are not fully worked out, all involved parties know that a return path is needed by the host device to make SDV and CC2.0 to work.

vegggas

Agreed, for the most part.

However, SDV breaks CableCard 1.0 devices, does it not ? And CableCard 2.0 isn't here yet, correct ? And yet, TWC is going gangbusters in rolling out SDV to the detriment of CC1.0 customers and the FCC's order to support CableCard.

As for prior implementations, there were also prototype HDTV set ups in the late 1980's if I'm not mistaken. Think they're compatible with today's HDTV gear ? Doubt it.

When you've got a technology that hasn't been standardized yet, it's very likely to change to a degree such that constructing partial implementations based on that moving target are a foolish endeavor.

An analogy is all of these companies rolling out their "pre-N" 802.11N draft spec gear, when everyone knows that the standard will likely change in the year or two before the standard is finalized. All of this gear will be obsolete when the real standard is cast in stone.

But TiVo's copy protection was fine for the FCC, was it not ? That's how these features were rolled out in the first place. So, CableLabs is placing itself on higher moral ground than the FCC as far as copy protection is concerned ? That's borderline laughable. I believe this is purely a stunt by CableLabs to stunt TiVo's growth, and impede their progress.

Wow, no CVCT, huh ? No CableCard, huh ? Then please instruct me as to how QAM HDTV tuners (such as my LG 4100) could tune and display unencrypted QAM ? No CableCard there, and yet I could watch QAM HDTV with it. All I had to do was a channel scan and up they appeared. If the LG can do it, why can't TiVo ?
The FCC had nothng to do with the copy protection going in and out of the box, just that it could record and hold the information. Cablelabs has to ensure that any content provider that wishes to have protection, can have that protection available, even if the content is to be moved around.

You can always scan and find a generic clear channel on QAM. How do you set up a season pass or wishlist for an unknown channel data stream, especailly one that can move around the system? Go ahead and buy one and try it out. It doesn't work. You MAY get lucky and have some of the original PSIP info on an OTA channel and the STB can remap to OTA channel designations, but that's the same as using the OTA tuner.

vegggas

The FCC had nothng to do with the copy protection going in and out of the box, just that it could record and hold the information. Cablelabs has to ensure that any content provider that wishes to have protection, can have that protection available, even if the content is to be moved around.

You can always scan and find a generic clear channel on QAM. How do you set up a season pass or wishlist for an unknown channel data stream, especailly one that can move around the system? Go ahead and buy one and try it out. It doesn't work. You MAY get lucky and have some of the original PSIP info on an OTA channel and the STB can remap to OTA channel designations, but that's the same as using the OTA tuner.

vegggas

No need for PSIP. TiVo's guide data takes care of that problem.

No need for PSIP. TiVo's guide data takes care of that problem.
But Tivo's guide data will not tell it the QAM frequency and major and minor channel allocation. The Tivo guide data will only tell it the cable system's virtual channel number, which is located in the CVCT table and read by the cable card.

vegggas
gotta go make the mortgage... til later...

TiVo wants to play by the rules, and wants to license the technology. They're being impeded by the licensing entity (in this case, CableLabs) in pursuing that goal.

Please provide legitimate references to back up your claims above. It looks like more of your opinion than fact. I'd like to see some real references with real facts.

Please provide legitimate references to back up your claims above. It looks like more of your opinion than fact. I'd like to see some real references with real facts.

No problem. I hope a TiVo employee is "legitimate" enough for you...

LINK (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4361425&&#post4361425)

FYI, TiVoPony is a TiVo employee. He's basically their head on-line liason, and frequents the forums on a near-daily basis.

But Tivo's guide data will not tell it the QAM frequency and major and minor channel allocation. The Tivo guide data will only tell it the cable system's virtual channel number, which is located in the CVCT table and read by the cable card.

vegggas
gotta go make the mortgage... til later...


You're right. I was wrong. I just looked into it, and the current S3 software doesn't provide for manual channel re-mapping. Since the QAM<->channel mappings can change frequently on the fly as provided by the cableco, it makes series recordings impossible without a CableCard.

Maybe I'm missing something....I've never owned a TiVo, but I've had an 8300 for almost one year and it seems to work fine, it's easy enough for my wife to use regularly, and it copies to my DVD recorder via "copy to VCR" just fine.

I realize some of this might be due to my location in WNY with Adelphia (now T-W), but is this whole debate basically a PC vs. Apple "mine's better than yours" argument?????

I think you'll find that most people who dislike the SA8300 owned a Tivo or Replay and the ones who like it came from using a VCR. I love my SA8300HD, I'm one of the VCR people. ;)

No problem. I hope a TiVo employee is "legitimate" enough for you...

LINK (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4361425&&#post4361425)

FYI, TiVoPony is a TiVo employee. He's basically their head on-line liason, and frequents the forums on a near-daily basis.

Thanks for the link. I found it interesting. TiVoPony made some points - mostly about the lack of Multi-Room and TiVo To Go:
MRV and TTG on the Series3 product is just as cool, and we want them just as much, and they definitely make life a little better. But...in this case it's not the FCC that decides, it's CableLabs. And while we continue to work with CableLabs, and are optimistic they'll allow us to support these features, they haven't for this initial software release. It's not that we failed to meet a spec, or failed to talk to the right people, or missed a date - rather, we are trying to provide functionality that is unique in the industry, and CableLabs has not been able to give us their blessing yet. This sort of functionality is not supported by any CableCard product today.
What is missing in his comment is the implication that you present in your posts that Cable Labs is intentionally suppressing TiVo:
CableLabs is dragging their feet, to TiVo's disadvantage. It's not in their best interest to facilitate a competitor's product.
There are a lot of content protection issues that need to be taken into account for HD MVR and HD TiVo to go. Because CableLabs considers getting V2.0 squared away as more important than adopting these two features - does not mean that they are "dragging their feet" (and TiVoPony didn't say that either - at least in your link).

But I asked for a legitimate source for your claims: A TiVo employee on a TiVo enthusiast site is not what I would consider a particularly legitimate source. I was hoping for an unbiased report in an industry newsletter.

Maybe I'm missing something....I've never owned a TiVo, but I've had an 8300 for almost one year and it seems to work fine, it's easy enough for my wife to use regularly, and it copies to my DVD recorder via "copy to VCR" just fine.

I realize some of this might be due to my location in WNY with Adelphia (now T-W), but is this whole debate basically a PC vs. Apple "mine's better than yours" argument?????

Wow. Way to stir it up again. Might as well say "Gee, I think Republicans are way better people than Democrats!" :)

Quick summary : This all goes back to the endless procession of people coming here to complain/wonder about why the 8300 works (or doesn't work) as it should. Stuff like : why can't this thing just record "Deadwood" the first time it airs, instead of EVERY SINGLE time it airs during the week?". Which lead to the line of reasoning by the 8300 apologists/lovers "SA can't do it because TiVo has patents on that". Which lead to a metaphysical and existential discussion about patents and licensing. Gets pretty heated from time to time.

Now, recently, whenever TiVo does something (EchoStar trial, new product release, etc.) the 8300 lovers/apologists out there try to point out how "evil" TiVo is. Took 'em a whole two hours after the TiVo Series3 was announced publicly to start it up again...

Thanks for the link. I found it interesting. TiVoPony made some points - mostly about the lack of Multi-Room and TiVo To Go:

What is missing in his comment is the implication that you present in your posts that Cable Labs is intentionally suppressing TiVo:

There are a lot of content protection issues that need to be taken into account for HD MVR and HD TiVo to go. Because CableLabs considers getting V2.0 squared away as more important than adopting these two features - does not mean that they are "dragging their feet" (and TiVoPony didn't say that either - at least in your link).

But I asked for a legitimate source for your claims: A TiVo employee on a TiVo enthusiast site is not what I would consider a particularly legitimate source. I was hoping for an unbiased report in an industry newsletter.


Of course TiVoPony's going to be nice about it, for many reasons. Number one, he's a public spokesman for TiVo and as such he should present a respectable image. Number two, it won't serve TiVo's goals to go about griping about the situation. In fact, it may serve to hinder any progress that's been made. Number three, it would only serve to dilute the good will that they're trying to accumulate on the very day of this product's release.

CableLabs has had this box in their hands for a long, long time. TiVo won CableCard approval way back in April. I can only imagine how long that process took to get that far along. Point is, CableLabs could very well have had all of the pertinent details for a year now, and chosen to not do anything about it.

The FCC gave the thumb's up (no pun intended) to TivoToGo over two years ago. LINK (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20040804-4071.html) This is not new technology.

Read between the lines. TiVoPony's happy that S3 shipped. He's not thrilled that they had to cripple the box to get it out. He's hopeful that they'll get to un-cripple it.

CableLabs is playing by the rules (their rules) in taking their sweet-ass time giving TiVo an answer. They haven't done anything unusual or illegal, which is fine but disappointing. As I understand it, they have 6 months to review the technology. After that time, TiVo can appeal that decision to some other body. Not 100% sure on the details or specifics, but I believe that to be the general gist of things.

As far as the worthiness of the source... TiVoPony's a (the?) spokesman for TiVo. Doesn't matter if his comments are in print, on line, or on TV. He speaks for the company. I doubt you'll read anything about this in any of the cable trade rags, since they'd rather TiVo and CableCard go away in the first place. They want all the money themselves via VOD anyways...

Good gravy, for the love of moose take this discussion to the "Tivo vs. 8300 Bashfest" thread!

And if there isn't one, go create one.

This has long since stopped having anything to do with SARA Tips & Tricks on the 8300HD.

They want all the money themselves via VOD anyways...

And TiVo isn't all about extracting as much money from anyone that they can? Oh, come on now.

I have a proposal for you: Start your own TiVo vs SA thread - and leave this thread for JUST the 8300. :rolleyes:

This thread has been irrelevant for a while anyways. As long as SA procedes at their glacial release cycle, no progress is made. Last year's bugs are this year's bug. The biggest change over the last year is that they added a fourth fast forward/rewind speed. WOW!

This entire thread could be summarized in a couple of posts and locked.