And TiVo isn't all about extracting as much money from anyone that they can? Oh, come on now.

Try to not mischaracterize my posts, please. Of course, TiVo's in it to make money. The point is that CableLabs (R&D arm of the cableco's) doesn't want TiVo to play in their playground and take some of their revenues...

Try to not mischaracterize my posts, please. Of course, TiVo's in it to make money. The point is that CableLabs (R&D arm of the cableco's) doesn't want TiVo to play in their playground and take some of their revenues...I must be missing something, again. :rolleyes: Isn't cable implementing OCAP to open it's system to any unit that meets OCAP specs? Isn't Comcast having Tivo port their software to Moto units to give their subs another IPG/interface option? Isn't Tivo also porting their software to SA units for the same reason? How is this a cableco/Cable Labs conspiracy against Tivo?

This thread has been irrelevant for a while anyways. Only in your eyes, Paul, only in your eyes. :(

Nope, not just in Paul's eyes.

Edit: I've reposted my opinion more succintly below. It does no good when folks square off.

Well, that's the crux of it, isn't it? You, like so many others, want a Tivo at a cable price.
I know this was directed at someone else, but I had to respond. Actually, you're dead wrong. I'd be more than glad to give TWC my money for a better DVR. That's exactly why people are willing to spend $800 for an S3. If TWC could put out a box made by anyone that had a real TiVo interface, I'd take it in a second. I'll pay a lot of money for quality. But give me something worth paying for or a choice of something else. Without SDV coming to my town, I would have bought 3 S3's, *OR* with a decent interface I would have 5 boxes from TWC. Right now I can only suffer through one to record some HD.


The 8300 improves with each release and sooner or later it to will have the Tivo interface with no cash outlay.
Were you actually SERIOUS when you wrote that? Really? I've seen it finally ask me if I only want it to record new episodes, but that's the only new thing it's done in two years. I just can't believe you wrote that statement in good faith. At this pace, we'll all be dead before the 8300 approaches a TiVo.

Honestly, I'm not here to participate in a TiVo vs. SA fight. Give me the best box and I'll pay whatever it takes. If you told me I could send TWC a check for $800 today and they would give me a box that had the TiVo interface (or their own version that was equal or better) and recorded HD, I'd do it in a second. I would have done that 4 years ago. But TWC gives me no options--the SA doesn't progress, and now I can't even use the S3 because of SDV (TWC Greensboro plans to put ALL their channels on SDV).

Yes he was serious. It's just too bad you live in the sticks and don't have the demand that generates change for your local TWC affiliate.

I would actually be happy to give TWC the money if they'd give me a somewhat decent product. It's been what, 2 years since the 8300 came out and it's still as pitiful as it was when it started. Hell, I don't even have the 4th FF gear! It takes 5 minutes to FF through a show to a certain spot.
Just think, if Tivo was remotely even capable of delivering this 2 1/2 years ago, then you would (might) be much happier. Considering the technological changes made in the last 30 months, the 8300 was considered a technical advancement for it's time. Now it's much more commonplace, and Tivo is catching up with new hardware and software to take a stab at the MILLIONS of SA cable DVR's in service. Seems like a lot of people actually like this product.

vegggas

I like it, how else was I supposed to record HD shows before today?

Yes he was serious. It's just too bad you live in the sticks and don't have the demand that generates change for your local TWC affiliate.
How could he have been serious? It hasn't moved an inch in 2 years--it's still light years from the functionality of TiVo. I honestly don't know how someone could think that they're anywhere close yet.
And seriously, I'm not here to fight, so please don't attack where I'm from. I don't live in the sticks. I live 100 feet outside the city of Greensboro which has 250,000 people and is in the middle of a metro area > 500,000. It's not Vegas, but it ain't the sticks either.

And what do you mean the demand that generates change for my local TWC? Isn't this the SA with SARA thread? As far as I've heard it doesn't matter where you live, SA with SARA is pretty lacking. Did I miss something?


Just think, if Tivo was remotely even capable of delivering this 2 1/2 years ago, then you would (might) be much happier.
Yeah, no kidding.

Considering the technological changes made in the last 30 months, the 8300 was considered a technical advancement for it's time.
It may have been "a technological advancement" to record HD, but the interface was easily 5 years behind. No, I take that back, I've had TiVo for 7 years, and the 8300 SARA is still nowhere close to its functionality.

Now it's much more commonplace, and Tivo is catching up with new hardware and software to take a stab at the MILLIONS of SA cable DVR's in service. Seems like a lot of people actually like this product.

vegggas
Like which product, TiVo? Yes. Oh, do you mean the SA DVR? I don't know how many "MILLIONS" of SA DVRs are in service (maybe you have a reference?), but most cable subs don't have any idea what they're missing [I know my neighbors don't--in fact their mouths hit the floor when I showed them a TiVo interface the other night]. So yes, they're content with not having to use a VCR anymore, but they're blissfully ignorant of how much more pleasant the experience could be.

So, your beef is with TWC then? Why bash the 8300 because TWC won't release the new software with added features that has been out for some time now?

No one here is arguing that Tivo software is not hands down better than SARA or Passport, especially for those features you've come to rely on. But, until we have an option for something better, we make the best use we can of what we have. Why is that so bad and why call this thread laughable (and by extension personally attack me for starting it way back when)? A lot of people have been, and continue to be, helped by this thread.

My 8300 doesn't kick out to live when a recording ends. When I join a recording in progress, I get to start from the beginning and watch through to the end with no problems. I use TitanTV for all my searches and Wish Lists, so I (personally) don't care if the 8300 software ever gets those features, especially if I have to pay extra for them. I'd much rather see a direct internet interface.

If you think you'll be dead before the 8300 approaches Tivo in functionality, I'm sorry that you won't be around much longer, a year and a half at most. It's already well-known that Tivo is porting their software to the 8300 and also to OCAP. You and Paul keep bashing the 8300 when it's the software and IPG, and nothing more. The 8300 hardware is fully capable of doing all that Tivo does and you'll find that out as soon as their port is ready.

Now you bash TWC (and others) for implementing SDV as if they are doing that simply to defeat Tivo. Don't you think that's being a bit arrogant? The fact that SDV enables them to offer more services using limited bandwidth more efficiently doesn't enter into your equation at all, does it? It's all just a conspiracy to keep you from enjoying your HDTV and searching by title, author, etc., as if no one without those options can enjoy their HDTVs.

Oh, and I suppose TWC has tied your hands and forced the 8300 upon you, against your will, right? Even if you have no choice but cable because of LOS issues with satellite services, that doesn't explain why all the pure hatred of the 8300 or those of us who are just trying to make the most of what we have and help others do the same. I just don't get all the hositlity toward a little piece of inanimate hardware for crying out loud.

Paul has a personal beef with me because I mentioned Tivo patents as a possible reason why the 8300 didn't have all the Tivo functionality. His opinion is that SA is just too cheap to pay for all the "hard work" Tivo has done and he might be right. But, so what? Not many companies like to pay royalties for anything if they think they can accomplish much the same thing a different way, etc. The cable business model and other limitations have limited what they've been able to do along those lines and that's a shame. But, the hostility the 2 of you display goes beyond all reason IMHO.

So, your beef is with TWC then? Why bash the 8300 because TWC won't release the new software with added features that has been out for some time now?
I think this is semantics. The 8300 is TWC's interface with its customers. Even the new software features you speak of still don't come close.

No one here is arguing that Tivo software is not hands down better than SARA or Passport, especially for those features you've come to rely on. But, until we have an option for something better, we make the best use we can of what we have. Why is that so bad and why call this thread laughable (and by extension personally attack me for starting it way back when)? A lot of people have been, and continue to be, helped by this thread.
I wasn't intending to personally attack you. I've rephrased my first post tonight to reflect that. You shouldn't take things said about this thread or this DVR as personal attacks.

My 8300 doesn't kick out to live when a recording ends. When I join a recording in progress, I get to start from the beginning and watch through to the end with no problems. I use TitanTV for all my searches and Wish Lists, so I (personally) don't care if the 8300 software ever gets those features, especially if I have to pay extra for them. I'd much rather see a direct internet interface.
Obviously you have a couple of new "features" that I've enjoyed with TiVo for 7 years. How do you use TitanTV for your searches and Wishlists? Don't you still have to scroll through the SA's guide to find each program and hit "record"? Most of us don't have that kind of time. Especially not when I can enter an actor's name ONCE on a TiVo and it will record all their movies and tv appearances forever.

If you think you'll be dead before the 8300 approaches Tivo in functionality, I'm sorry that you won't be around much longer, a year and a half at most. It's already well-known that Tivo is porting their software to the 8300 and also to OCAP.
Actually, I did NOT know that. You have educated me, given me a glimmer of hope [although that's always faint when it requires change from TWC in my experience]. This is what I had been hoping TiVo would wise up and do years ago.

You and Paul keep bashing the 8300 when it's the software and IPG, and nothing more. The 8300 hardware is fully capable of doing all that Tivo does and you'll find that out as soon as their port is ready.
Again, I think this is a little silly--separating the physical box from its software. Allow me to retract any criticism of the physical hardware of the SA 8300 and redirect it toward the software and IPG. But isn't the SA8300 just a hard drive and connections without the software? :confused:

Now you bash TWC (and others) for implementing SDV as if they are doing that simply to defeat Tivo. Don't you think that's being a bit arrogant? The fact that SDV enables them to offer more services using limited bandwidth more efficiently doesn't enter into your equation at all, does it? It's all just a conspiracy to keep you from enjoying your HDTV and searching by title, author, etc., as if no one without those options can enjoy their HDTVs.
No, I don't see it as arrogant at all. I don't think it's a conspiracy against TiVo either. I believe the truth lies in the middle. Both sides have a LOT to gain by retaining/grabbing those DVR customers, agreed? I absolutely agree that SDV can allow them to free up bandwidth, but where's the bandwidth going? TWC hasn't given me a new HD channel in over a year. Where are HiDef on demand movies (we have a selection of 1 movie from last year and 2 lame iMax movies)? Trust me, I'd rent them!

Oh, and I suppose TWC has tied your hands and forced the 8300 upon you, against your will, right? Even if you have no choice but cable because of LOS issues with satellite services, that doesn't explain why all the pure hatred of the 8300 or those of us who are just trying to make the most of what we have and help others do the same. I just don't get all the hositlity toward a little piece of inanimate hardware for crying out loud.
You are really taking these things a little too personally and seriously. I don't hate you. I actually think we'd all like the same thing, we're just coming at it from different angles.

Paul has a personal beef with me because I mentioned Tivo patents as a possible reason why the 8300 didn't have all the Tivo functionality. His opinion is that SA is just too cheap to pay for all the "hard work" Tivo has done and he might be right. But, so what? Not many companies like to pay royalties for anything if they think they can accomplish much the same thing a different way, etc. The cable business model and other limitations have limited what they've been able to do along those lines and that's a shame. But, the hostility the 2 of you display goes beyond all reason IMHO.
I actually wish that TiVo had gone to a model of selling their software to ALL the cable and satellite companies 6 years ago when everyone realized what a giant leap forward it was. They could have been/should have been the Windows/Mac OS of all DVRs, the "kleenex" of DVR interfaces. They never should have tried to keep making their own hardware. Who knows what happened. But I'm sure the cable companies did exactly what you said, they didn't want to pay royalties if they could do it themselves. I think the consumer (us) is the one who lost on both accounts. Now we either get a crippled SA DVR or a crippled TiVo because of the fight.

Again, I am not attacking you or Vigga or anyone else personally and never meant to. We come from opposite angles on the same goal. I think folks like you are trying to make do with what they have while folks like me are frustrated that if we all just take what they give us, they'll just keep doing it. That's all. You have some good points, and hopefully I do as well.

For the record, I did have a DirecTivo and actually hated it, compared to my Original Panasonic ShowStopper Replay DVR. I sold the Tivo eventually and got a Replay 5000 to compliment my Replay ShowStopper DVR. I still have both of those units and they do get used, but the recordings rarely get viewed. On the rare occasion, I want to find a specific obscure program using Replay exclusive search features, I'll use the replay search to find the time and channel. I then jump to the SA box and in less time that it took to enter the search letters on replay, I have a recording already set (about 15 sec). You do know you can jump to any point in the IPG for a full week at any time with 2 keystrokes for day (Guide & B) and enter the channel where you want to start, right? If I see a promo for Amazing Race, I hit "Guide", "B" Up Arrow "(x3)", and then "select". Since I was watching CBS, it's already highlighted so I press "select" again to bring up options and record "All New Episodes" and "First Run Only on This Channel".
That sequence, as described above, took less than ten seconds after hearing a CBS promo for the Amazing Race, to set up a series recording starting next Sunday. On the Replay, and especially the Tivo, that process was very very slow (due to guides being slow, starting points, and otehr reasons) and using the keyword search took much longer.

vegggas

I think this is semantics. The 8300 is TWC's interface with its customers. Even the new software features you speak of still don't come close.Yes, but it's a step in the right direction. From what I understand many of the Tivo features you yearn for are limited by the lousy IPG most cableco's use. If the data is not there, it's pretty hard to search on it.
I wasn't intending to personally attack you. I've rephrased my first post tonight to reflect that. You shouldn't take things said about this thread or this DVR as personal attacks.I know that, but calling this thread laughable was a little below the belt, don't you think?
Obviously you have a couple of new "features" that I've enjoyed with TiVo for 7 years. How do you use TitanTV for your searches and Wishlists? Don't you still have to scroll through the SA's guide to find each program and hit "record"? Most of us don't have that kind of time. Especially not when I can enter an actor's name ONCE on a TiVo and it will record all their movies and tv appearances forever.I've been saying for some time that there is new software that TWC simply hasn't deployed yet. I understand the frustration, I still can't get past the sheer anger expressed in some posts, particularly Paul's.

Yes, I still have to find the program in the IPG to set up my season passes, etc., that's why I'd like an internet interface. Of course, with Tivo, I wouldn't need one, but then I'd have to pay Tivo for something that is free with TitanTV. The only reason I have the time is because my wireless notebook is right here and I do most of this while watching my recordings. I have absolutely no need for search by actor, etc., I simply don't base my viewing on that kind of stuff.
Actually, I did NOT know that. You have educated me, given me a glimmer of hope [although that's always faint when it requires change from TWC in my experience]. This is what I had been hoping TiVo would wise up and do years ago.Agreed. That is another beef between Paul and me. I believe Tivo specifically would not deal with cableco's whereas he believes the opposite. The Tivo port to Moto and SA has been discussed recently, maybe you just missed it.
Again, I think this is a little silly--separating the physical box from its software. Allow me to retract any criticism of the physical hardware of the SA 8300 and redirect it toward the software and IPG. But isn't the SA8300 just a hard drive and connections without the software? :confused: Sure, but so is whatever hardware Tivo runs on. The S3 and 8300 inside are probably pretty darned close to each other, maybe closer than a lot of people think. The things that separate Tivo from everything else are the interface and IPG data, not the physical hardware, other than different size HDDs and OTA tuner maybe, but those could be added to any DVR pretty easily.
No, I don't see it as arrogant at all. I don't think it's a conspiracy against TiVo either. I believe the truth lies in the middle. Both sides have a LOT to gain by retaining/grabbing those DVR customers, agreed? I absolutely agree that SDV can allow them to free up bandwidth, but where's the bandwidth going? TWC hasn't given me a new HD channel in over a year. Where are HiDef on demand movies (we have a selection of 1 movie from last year and 2 lame iMax movies)? Trust me, I'd rent them!Did you ever stop to think that bandwidth is the reason why? If they don't implement things like SDV, OCAP, etc., you may never get more HD with TWC. It's arrogant IMHO to think SDV was developed just to thwart Tivo.
You are really taking these things a little too personally and seriously. I don't hate you. I actually think we'd all like the same thing, we're just coming at it from different angles. Hate might be the wrong word, but you have to admit we have had our differences. From my prespective it's because you (Paul, whomever) only seem to post when you want to bash the 8300 and nothing more. This current discourse is one I'm happy to participate in. I do think there is a lot of common ground, but bashing the 8300 (or Tivo) does nothing to help IMHO, that's my only point to those comments.
I actually wish that TiVo had gone to a model of selling their software to ALL the cable and satellite companies 6 years ago when everyone realized what a giant leap forward it was. They could have been/should have been the Windows/Mac OS of all DVRs, the "kleenex" of DVR interfaces. They never should have tried to keep making their own hardware. Who knows what happened. But I'm sure the cable companies did exactly what you said, they didn't want to pay royalties if they could do it themselves. I think the consumer (us) is the one who lost on both accounts. Now we either get a crippled SA DVR or a crippled TiVo because of the fight. Can't argue with that. Way back when (and I'm talking at the very beginning), I thought Tivo was acting like a spoiled rich kid, keeping things to themselves and trying to extort cable. I couldn't find anything in any archives, but I distinctly remember Tivo being painted as the bad guy in the early fight with cable. Could be I was misled at the time, but it seems to have taken a lot of quarterly losses (and the loss of the DirecTivo) to get them to the table with Comcast.
Again, I am not attacking you or Vigga or anyone else personally and never meant to. We come from opposite angles on the same goal. I think folks like you are trying to make do with what they have while folks like me are frustrated that if we all just take what they give us, they'll just keep doing it. That's all. You have some good points, and hopefully I do as well.You do. I've always maintained that this thread is about making the most of a bad situation. We didn't make the rules, but we have to live with them. I also agree that not complaining won't get things changed. I guess my beef is with the tone of the complaints when they call programmers idiots and simple hardware a POS. It is what it is and there are a lot of valid reasons why, even if you don't agree with them (and by you I don't mean you specifically). Calling for an email campaign to get this or that feature added goes a lot further IMHO than calling the very folks who program this stuff idiots when all they do is program to the specs they are given, I've been there. If you came to this thread asking if the 8300 could search by title, we'd say no. If you then asked if we could start an email campaign to get that feature added, I'd be right there with you even though I wouldn't use the feature. But all that ever happens is stooping to calling the 8300 a POS because it can't search by ttitle. I'm sorry, but that is not constructive criticism in my book, just as saying vegggas is stooping low by posting a list of S3 defficiencies to answer some PMs and emails was not necessary.

You're right about another thing and I've said this too. Most folks who are happy with the 8300 come from the VCR world whereas most folks who are unhappy come from ReplayTV and Tivo. But, what is wrong with that? That is certainly no reason to make fun (not you) of folks simply because they aren't fervent Tivo lovers or aren't willing to pay the price Tivo demands. Many folks simply don't have $800 plus the monthly fee laying around. But I don't see them entering the S3 threads and bashing the Tivo for being over-priced, not worth the money, etc.

Then too, there are plenty of Tivo lovers who are happy with the 8300. There are even some in this thread who think the S3 pricetag is simply too high for the added features, even though they miss those features. If I based my viewing habits on title, actor, director, etc., I might be singing a different tune, but I still wouldn't be bashing the 8300 for what it isn't, I'd be working (as I am) to help get it enhanced or replaced. In the meantime I do what I can to help folks. Yes, I get irate sometimes, but if you look back at those times, I think you'll see it's for all the reasons I've outlined, not for constructive critism.

So currently there is no way to extract video files to a PC? The only way it capture to vcr or d-vhs?
If "extract" means taking a program that is already on the DVR and spinning it off to a PC: The only way you can re-record it is via the Video/S-Video down-rezzed interface to a VCR, D-VCR or video capture card in a PC.

In order to record any and all cable channels (except perhaps PPV and OnDemand), you'll need a D-VHS connected to a Firewire enabled SA3250HD. Or a TIVO Series 3 with CableCARDS, with the additional loss of SDV channels whenever they appear on your system.

A PC can only capture unencrypted QAM (e.g. usually only local HD) programs via a Firewire interface to a suitably equipped SA3250HD (which doesn't output Firewire for analog channels):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695&page=1

Of course a PC can have an ATSC/QAM Tuner card (or external USB device) and be able to capture unencypted QAM (e.g. local HD) programs as well as analog NTSC (Basic/Extended) channels via a usually separate NTSC Tuner.

...

If you think you'll be dead before the 8300 approaches Tivo in functionality, I'm sorry that you won't be around much longer, a year and a half at most. It's already well-known that Tivo is porting their software to the 8300 and also to OCAP.
Actually, I did NOT know that. You have educated me, given me a glimmer of hope [although that's always faint when it requires change from TWC in my experience]. This is what I had been hoping TiVo would wise up and do years ago. ...TWC is not going to use the TiVo software port to the 8300. TWC is developing its own interface software called Digital Navigator. TWC has licensed some features from TiVo to be used in the Digital Navigator. Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8235787&&#post8235787) to go to a post that describes it and links to one of the TWC locations (Nebraska) that has announced the software. Cox has announced that it is going to use the TiVo port on the 8300 and Motorola boxes. Comcast has announced that it is going to use the TiVo port on the Motorola boxes. Vegggas has posted that Comcast will also use the TiVo port on the 8300 boxes.

TWC is not going to use the TiVo software port to the 8300. TWC is developing its own interface software called Digital Navigator. TWC has licensed some features from TiVo to be used in the Digital Navigator. Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8235787&&#post8235787) to go to a post that describes it and links to one of the TWC locations (Nebraska) that has announced the software. Cox has announced that it is going to use the TiVo port on the 8300 and Motorola boxes. Comcast has announced that it is going to use the TiVo port on the Motorola boxes. Vegggas has posted that Comcast will also use the TiVo port on the 8300 boxes.


Any word what WOW cable is going to use??

Also

Has anyone had any luck getting the 8300 to output via the HDMI through a Denon 4306 ??

I get a no HDMI msg and it shows using the component output instead on the stb screen

vegggas,
If that was an attempt to convince me that the SARA interface was just as good as TiVo, it didn't. I've never had the DirecTiVo or a Showstopper, but my TiVo interface is much better. If you can't tell any difference between them, then I guess there's not much point in us discussing this. But if you're just trying to make justifications as to why we should be happy with SARA, I disagree.

Yes, but it's a step in the right direction. From what I understand many of the Tivo features you yearn for are limited by the lousy IPG most cableco's use. If the data is not there, it's pretty hard to search on it.
I don't know. My buddy has SA with Passport and he can search by title. I'd actually be somewhat satisfied with the Passport feature set. But our TWC won't change because of cost.

I know that, but calling this thread laughable was a little below the belt, don't you think?
I've been saying for some time that there is new software that TWC simply hasn't deployed yet. I understand the frustration, I still can't get past the sheer anger expressed in some posts, particularly Paul's.
I apologize for my "laughable" statement. It was me expressing my frustration.

Yes, I still have to find the program in the IPG to set up my season passes, etc., that's why I'd like an internet interface. Of course, with Tivo, I wouldn't need one, but then I'd have to pay Tivo for something that is free with TitanTV. The only reason I have the time is because my wireless notebook is right here and I do most of this while watching my recordings. I have absolutely no need for search by actor, etc., I simply don't base my viewing on that kind of stuff.
I know a lot of folks may not use some of the advanced/obscure features of TiVo. My main issue is with the basics--not having marked points to FF to, not having folders to organize my shows, getting kicked back to live when I'm trying to watch a show being recorded.

Maybe this is me being stupid or maybe this is my version of SARA, but if I pause a live show, go to List, watch a recorded show, I can't get back to my paused show without changing the channel and losing my buffered recording. I *think* I've tried every possible button.

Agreed. That is another beef between Paul and me. I believe Tivo specifically would not deal with cableco's whereas he believes the opposite. The Tivo port to Moto and SA has been discussed recently, maybe you just missed it.
I'm still skeptical, especially after RussB's post regarding this. Don't you imagine they're both being stubborn?

Plus, I give TWC $150/month. But they seem to keep having "disputes" with Disney over ESPN HD channels, with TiVo over DVR issues, with Sinclair broadcasting over carrying my local ABC HD feed. I think these things are why you're seeing the anger and frustration. I'm getting a different picture painted of TWC than you are. TW is raking in Billions of dollars a year, but they don't seem to be able to work out any of these issues.

Did you ever stop to think that bandwidth is the reason why? If they don't implement things like SDV, OCAP, etc., you may never get more HD with TWC. It's arrogant IMHO to think SDV was developed just to thwart Tivo.
I don't necessarily believe SDV was developed solely to thwart TiVo, but it was a beneficial side effect for them. I'd like to believe that bandwidth was the reason why I don't have any new HD channels, but that's not even what TWC has told us! They've specifically said that the problem has been "negotiations" with Disney and others. They've always said things like "Disney is forcing us to carry other things we don't want". And with Sinclair across the country it's been the same party line.

No one from TWC has ever said, we can't get you ESPN2HD because of bandwidth. Not that I know of. So again, I'm getting a completely different picture/opinion of TWC. I honestly do not believe they are innocent victims in all of these "negotiation issues". It's simply becoming a pattern.

Can't argue with that. Way back when (and I'm talking at the very beginning), I thought Tivo was acting like a spoiled rich kid, keeping things to themselves and trying to extort cable. I couldn't find anything in any archives, but I distinctly remember Tivo being painted as the bad guy in the early fight with cable. Could be I was misled at the time, but it seems to have taken a lot of quarterly losses (and the loss of the DirecTivo) to get them to the table with Comcast.
This kind of goes back to the arrogance comment. I personally feel that TiVo had then and has now a product that is far superior to anything on the market. They had the right to ask for whatever they thought the value of their product was. That's capitalism. I doubt the cable companies wanted to pay them squat for it, so they walked away. My problem is that there isn't any competition for a lot of folks. They are locked to TWC as their only provider. So TWC can keep handing me SARA and I have no choice.

You're right about another thing and I've said this too. Most folks who are happy with the 8300 come from the VCR world whereas most folks who are unhappy come from ReplayTV and Tivo. But, what is wrong with that? That is certainly no reason to make fun (not you) of folks simply because they aren't fervent Tivo lovers or aren't willing to pay the price Tivo demands.
You are absolutely correct. I am a fervent TiVo lover and my pleasure with it compels me to evangelize to others :D Seriously, it does. I realize that's MY issue and I should leave those folks alone, but it breaks my heart when I know what's possible.

Many folks simply don't have $800 plus the monthly fee laying around. But I don't see them entering the S3 threads and bashing the Tivo for being over-priced, not worth the money, etc.
Oh boy, you haven't been over to the TiVo Community forums lately, have you? The vast majority of the threads and posts over there for the past 2 weeks have been bashing the S3 for being over-priced and under-featured. Oh yeah, it's bad! Even fervent TiVo lovers have turned their backs on the church of TiVo because of this.

Then too, there are plenty of Tivo lovers who are happy with the 8300. There are even some in this thread who think the S3 pricetag is simply too high for the added features, even though they miss those features. If I based my viewing habits on title, actor, director, etc., I might be singing a different tune, but I still wouldn't be bashing the 8300 for what it isn't, I'd be working (as I am) to help get it enhanced or replaced. In the meantime I do what I can to help folks. Yes, I get irate sometimes, but if you look back at those times, I think you'll see it's for all the reasons I've outlined, not for constructive critism.
I agree that the S3 price is too high, it will come down fairly quickly, but that's a moot point now with SDV. I would actually give up the entire WishList feature just to have the BASICS I mentioned above--a decent guide, title search, folders, marked FF points, more season pass options (padding recordings), etc...And I would pay TWC double for that.

I appreciate your efforts to try to improve this thing. That's a value to everyone here. I guess I'm just looking at TWC the same way you're looking at TiVo. I don't trust them and I don't know that they care much about how their customers feel. I think they're making a ton of money and trying to protect that (for which I don't blame them), but they keep portraying themselves as victims. I think we need more competition.

Wait, here's my crazy idea: Why wouldn't a Cox or a TWC offer 2 boxes, one with TiVo interface and one with SARA/Passport/Moxi whatever and just pass along any royalty costs to their customers? If you said I could lease a SARA box for $11/month like I do now, or I could lease a TiVo box from TWC for $20/mo, I'd gladly pay the difference and let them give TiVo the $9/mo in royalties.

Now most people, maybe you guys here, would say it's not worth the extra $9 and keep the SARA box. But that's OK, I'd still have an option that I could pay more for and TWC wouldn't eat the royalty fees.

Is that just too easy or am I too naive?

sorry for all the questions but I am having a hard time using the search function on this board

When I hook up my 8300 via component (because it won't sync with my Denon 4306) should I be using the coaxil, the tos-link (optical), or the 5.1 descrete connections??

IF I am able to use HDMI in the future it will carry the sound via the HDMI interface correct??

In order to record any and all cable channels (except perhaps PPV and OnDemand), you'll need a D-VHS connected to a Firewire enabled SA3250HD. Or a TIVO Series 3 with CableCARDS, with the additional loss of SDV channels whenever they appear on your system.The SA8300HD also works with the right version of SARA. Unfortunately, some cableco's have enabled the copy-protection flags leaving 1394 of little value for all but locals I believe.

sorry for all the questions but I am having a hard time using the search function on this board

When I hook up my 8300 via component (because it won't sync with my Denon 4306) should I be using the coaxil, the tos-link (optical), or the 5.1 descrete connections??

IF I am able to use HDMI in the future it will carry the sound via the HDMI interface correct??
Wngzz,
The toslilnk and coaxial connections carry the digital audio and are the same accoustically, only the transport is different. Use whatever you want.
For HDMI, it depends on various factors, due to the interactive nature of the HDMI handshake protocol.

vegggas

Wngzz,
The toslilnk and coaxial connections carry the digital audio and are the same accoustically, only the transport is different. Use whatever you want.
For HDMI, it depends on various factors, due to the interactive nature of the HDMI handshake protocol.

vegggas

Thanks for the quick reply Vegggas

Last tivo post.

Tivo and DirecTV had a mutually exclusive deal in the early years, preventing any partnerships with othe entities. During that time, other STB makers started developing their own technologies.
There is a "search by Title" feature in SARA software. "Guide" then "A" it is limited by each day though and all the shows are listed and have to be scroled through.
Your reference to having two pricing structures for Tivo vs. base fees is exactly what the cable co's are doing. Both Comcast and Cox have already announced that when they announced the services. Comcast made the announcement in Mar 2005, and Cox, last Month.

SDV was designed and announced YEARS BEFORE TIVO made an announcement about the S3. The physical requirement for a return path has been a known requirement for several years. Tivo simpley decided not to add that hardware to their design. If you say that the CC2.0 is not final, that's correct. It's still hammering out SOFTWARE details. The Hardware spec about needing a return path, was known for many years.

TWC has announced that they are using ther own new designed software, based loosely on Tivo features. Since they have direct control, they may actually have a better product overall, since they are already using a cable platform.

Jacksonian, I merely pointed out that it takes less than 10 seconds for me to set a series recording from the IPG for a program later in the week after hearing it on a promo. I gave exact button presses. Could you give a detailed example of how you would record "The Amazing Race" starting next sunday for all new episodes? It doesn't matter if you don't actually want to watch it, just go through the steps and explain it.

You say you can't pause a show and watch another?
I can pause a show, go watch a previous recording, then go back to my paused show where I left off to skip the commercials. I've been doing that for years on the 8300 and the previous 8000. It's been documented in this tips and tricks thread.
Basic steps, if you haven't bothered to read the FIRST posts.
Hit record to buffer the non-watched, paused channel. Go view your previously recorded program. Retune back to the channel you have paused and continue watching from where you left off.

vegggas

Thanks for the quick reply Vegggas


Ahhhhhhhhhh - BACK to what this forum is about!

All this TiVo CRAP does not help people like wingzz.

I don't know. My buddy has SA with Passport and he can search by title. I'd actually be somewhat satisfied with the Passport feature set. But our TWC won't change because of cost.Yes, you are right. SARA simply doesn't have a search feature. Sure you can call up a daily list of titles and scroll through, but I don't consider that a search. For those who use it, that is a deficiency, but hardly a show-stopper. From everything I've read, all that is available, cableco's simply won't upgrade their IPGs to get them. I assume this is partly because of cost and partly because they are going in a different direction with OCAP, etc., basically getting out out of the business and letting 3rd parties play. I've used Passport (for a short time) and it certainly has a better interface, though a lot of it is simple graphics.
I apologize for my "laughable" statement. It was me expressing my frustration.Touche!
I know a lot of folks may not use some of the advanced/obscure features of TiVo. My main issue is with the basics--not having marked points to FF to, not having folders to organize my shows, getting kicked back to live when I'm trying to watch a show being recorded.Bookmarks can be very useful if you interrupt your viewing often, I just don't generally watch TV that way. I'm sure if they were there, I'd use them, but it's just not that big of a deal to me to get all agitated like some folks do. As for folders, I just can't see needing that kind of organization for 20-35 hours of HD material. I don't keep recordings long enough to put time into organizing them. Again, I can see how it would be nice and how you'd get used to that, but is it that big a deal to get angry like some folks do? The kick back to live has been fixed for well over a year now. I (and SA) can't help it that TWC won't upgrade. I suspect they are using their resources to develop their own interface and simply aren't going to fix things until that is ready, the old rock & a hard place for subscribers. I can understand bashing TWC from here to eternity, I just don't understand bashing the 8300 for things that have been fixed for a long time and have been posted in this and other threads.
Maybe this is me being stupid or maybe this is my version of SARA, but if I pause a live show, go to List, watch a recorded show, I can't get back to my paused show without changing the channel and losing my buffered recording. I *think* I've tried every possible button.Already discussed the lack of bookmarks, but I seem to remember vegggas saying he does this all the time, but I'm not 100% sure if you're talking about the same thing.
I'm still skeptical, especially after RussB's post regarding this. Don't you imagine they're both being stubborn?Of course they are, that goes without saying. I guess I just live with things as they are because I know some changes are coming and I try to keep up. I think a lot will change with OCAP, etc., and I think you'll be surprised at just how much is waiting in the wings. There is a reason Tivo released their S3 now vice waiting for it to be fully ready with the things vegggas listed, it's called competition.
Plus, I give TWC $150/month. But they seem to keep having "disputes" with Disney over ESPN HD channels, with TiVo over DVR issues, with Sinclair broadcasting over carrying my local ABC HD feed. I think these things are why you're seeing the anger and frustration. I'm getting a different picture painted of TWC than you are. TW is raking in Billions of dollars a year, but they don't seem to be able to work out any of these issues.I don't know much about cableco's net profits. I do see reports of just how much money Tivo continues to lose and I believe that is why they are finally getting in bed with cableco's. As far as ESPN, etc., do you know that CBS plans to demand cash from it's stations starting in 2008 as current contracts expire? If you think negotiations are bad now and costs are high, get ready because the landscape is going to change.
I don't necessarily believe SDV was developed solely to thwart TiVo, but it was a beneficial side effect for them. I'd like to believe that bandwidth was the reason why I don't have any new HD channels, but that's not even what TWC has told us! They've specifically said that the problem has been "negotiations" with Disney and others. They've always said things like "Disney is forcing us to carry other things we don't want". And with Sinclair across the country it's been the same party line.I like how you added the "necessarily". :) Of course SDV has a benefit, why else would they do it? Bandwidth still becomes a concern when all those "other" things require some of it, especially the VOD that some packages demand, I believe Cinemax is that way. Look, everybody wants as much of the pie as they can get and I can't fault them for that. But, at some point, the cost of cable goes over the edge and cableco's lose customers. How many customers do you think they lose right now because of your complaints about the lack of Tivo features? How many do you think they'd lose if they simply gave in to all these demands from the likes of Disney, Sinclair, etc., and raised their rates even more, especially for channels we might not even want? This is precisely why ala carte gets so much press at times. Cable goes up and so do the cry's for ala carte.
No one from TWC has ever said, we can't get you ESPN2HD because of bandwidth. Not that I know of. So again, I'm getting a completely different picture/opinion of TWC. I honestly do not believe they are innocent victims in all of these "negotiation issues". It's simply becoming a pattern.See previous item.
This kind of goes back to the arrogance comment. I personally feel that TiVo had then and has now a product that is far superior to anything on the market. They had the right to ask for whatever they thought the value of their product was. That's capitalism. I doubt the cable companies wanted to pay them squat for it, so they walked away. My problem is that there isn't any competition for a lot of folks. They are locked to TWC as their only provider. So TWC can keep handing me SARA and I have no choice.Can't disagree with much of that, they do have a better product, but it comes at a price that that cable wasn't willing to accept. I just think Tivo asked for too much (or to keep too much of the monthly fee) and cable called their bluff. Perhaps it's coming back to haunt cable now, but do you think Tivo has been smart to keep losing millions just to be stubborn up to this point? I see no reason why they couldn't have entered the cable market before now.
You are absolutely correct. I am a fervent TiVo lover and my pleasure with it compels me to evangelize to others :D Seriously, it does. I realize that's MY issue and I should leave those folks alone, but it breaks my heart when I know what's possible.I can understand that, but I don't understand the need to do it in this thread in the manner some do. I had a problem with your initial post, but you saw it wasn't right yourself and changed it. Since then, I think we've had a very civil discussion. The only other problem I have with Tivo lovers is they just can't seem to accept the fact the this is what we are stuck with and getting your nose out of joint over it in this thread doesn't help. Everyone wants to place the "bad guy" label on cable, but I doubt any of you have beat up on Tivo for being not trying harder to court cable until now with the S3.
Oh boy, you haven't been over to the TiVo Community forums lately, have you? The vast majority of the threads and posts over there for the past 2 weeks have been bashing the S3 for being over-priced and under-featured. Oh yeah, it's bad! Even fervent TiVo lovers have turned their backs on the church of TiVo because of this. No, I don't frequent that thread, but none of that surprises me. It goes back to my statement that so many want Tivo at cable prices. How much did they think the S3 was going to cost anyway? With Tivo bleeding as much as it is, I'm surprised the S3 is only $800.
I agree that the S3 price is too high, it will come down fairly quickly, but that's a moot point now with SDV. I would actually give up the entire WishList feature just to have the BASICS I mentioned above--a decent guide, title search, folders, marked FF points, more season pass options (padding recordings), etc...And I would pay TWC double for that.I hate to add salt to the wounds, but I can also pad my season passes with the version of SARA I have, this is also a new undocumented feature. I'd love to have a 2-week, WS, 4-6 hour IPG like I have with TitanTV. A decent title search would be useful too, as would bookmarks ala Passport. I only disagree on how angry one needs to be about all this. :)
I appreciate your efforts to try to improve this thing. That's a value to everyone here. I guess I'm just looking at TWC the same way you're looking at TiVo. I don't trust them and I don't know that they care much about how their customers feel. I think they're making a ton of money and trying to protect that (for which I don't blame them), but they keep portraying themselves as victims. I think we need more competition.

Wait, here's my crazy idea: Why wouldn't a Cox or a TWC offer 2 boxes, one with TiVo interface and one with SARA/Passport/Moxi whatever and just pass along any royalty costs to their customers? If you said I could lease a SARA box for $11/month like I do now, or I could lease a TiVo box from TWC for $20/mo, I'd gladly pay the difference and let them give TiVo the $9/mo in royalties.

Now most people, maybe you guys here, would say it's not worth the extra $9 and keep the SARA box. But that's OK, I'd still have an option that I could pay more for and TWC wouldn't eat the royalty fees.

Is that just too easy or am I too naive?No, I think that is exactly what the future holds for all of us with OCAP, it's just taking a long time to get there. I believe you will simply go to BB, CC, etc., and pick up whatever box you want and subscribe to whatever service you want, just like you do with cable modems today. Remember when you had to get the modem they provided?

At any rate, cable will still have an entry-level device for those who just want to have it all done for them, but those of us who buy separate AVRs, HDTV's, speakers, etc., will get what we want, options. I don't know if it's worth the extra $9, I don't have that choice yet, so I don't dwell on it. I get as emotional about defending cable as you do about Tivo, but not because I love cable. Cable is just what I have and I understand the forces in play and the time things take in the corporate world we live in, especially during a time of extreme change (DTV) and the huge expenditures. I blame cable and SA as much as I blame Tivo, I'm just always on the defense with you and Paul. :)

Like vegggas, this will be my last post on this subject. If you want to continue the discussion via PM, I'd be glad to.

Has anyone had any luck getting the 8300 to output via the HDMI through a Denon 4306 ??


FWIW, I have it working with a Denon 2807.

FWIW, I have it working with a Denon 2807.



What ver of the 8300 firmwear does your box have???

The Navigator from TWC is now being released.All TWC customers will have in over the next eight months.Looking at screen shots online the Navigator has the following features.(A)Deep search features-KEYWORD-CATAGORY-DATE-TIME plus sub options in each feature of search.(B)SERIES MANAGER with most or more TIVO like recording features and options.(C)TIME STAMPED RECORDING BAR(D)Much improved CONFLICT MANAGEMENT(could not view sub options but they are there.(D) May be folders but could not tell for sure.Many more featues i cannot remember but first run new episodes(season pass twc style is there).In summary from what i have seen the search manager is deep and should please ex tivo users.Series manager seems very tivo like.oh yea a new screen tells us why a program was not recorded.I also belive the conflict manager gives you future choices of a conflicting show if there is one.Do not know about bookmarks no mention was made.Hope this information helps to sort out some confusion on the TWC Navigator.The article also said the dvr software was all new TWC written.

SDV was designed and announced YEARS BEFORE TIVO made an announcement about the S3. The physical requirement for a return path has been a known requirement for several years. Tivo simpley decided not to add that hardware to their design. If you say that the CC2.0 is not final, that's correct. It's still hammering out SOFTWARE details. The Hardware spec about needing a return path, was known for many years.

Let's broaden the discussion for a moment. Not TiVo-specific.

CableCard was mandated by the FCC to allow users to be able use 3rd party gear, rather than being locked into whatever their cableco provides. SDV breaks CableCard 1.0, plain and simple. Doesn't matter if it's a TiVo DVR box, a Sony TV, or whatever else it may be. The remedies are CableCard 2.0 (which won't be available until next year at the earliest), or go back and rent gear from your cableco. Kinda defeats and circumvents the entire push behind CableCard, doesn't it ? This gripe isn't TiVo-centric, it's more anti-SDV and how it completely breaks CableCard 1.0 and limits consumer choice.


Jacksonian, I merely pointed out that it takes less than 10 seconds for me to set a series recording from the IPG for a program later in the week after hearing it on a promo. I gave exact button presses. Could you give a detailed example of how you would record "The Amazing Race" starting next sunday for all new episodes? It doesn't matter if you don't actually want to watch it, just go through the steps and explain it.

there are really two methods, name-based and guide-based, but I'll limit myself to the name method for now. I'll be as verbose as possible. In reality, these are quick and intuitive operations.

1) name-based : Hit "Tivo" and "4". This brings up the browse by name category, which is the Ouija-board style input method. Cursor to "A" and hit "select". (all shows starting with "A" appear on the right side of the screen). Cursor to "M" and hit "select" (all shows starting with "AM" are now shown on the right side of the screen -- "Amazing Race" is probably already there). If you still don't see your show, you could cursor to "A" and hit select again (all shows starting with "AMA" are now shown on the right side of the screen). Cursor over to the "Amazing Race" listing, hit "enter". You are now shown a bunch of options concerning "Amazing Race". Scroll to "Recording Options" and hit "enter". You can now select single recording, Season Pass, pre-show and post-show time padding, # of shows to record, how long to keep 'em, etc. Scroll to "record with these options". Done. Takes about 10 seconds.


You say you can't pause a show and watch another?
I can pause a show, go watch a previous recording, then go back to my paused show where I left off to skip the commercials. I've been doing that for years on the 8300 and the previous 8000. It's been documented in this tips and tricks thread.
Basic steps, if you haven't bothered to read the FIRST posts.
Hit record to buffer the non-watched, paused channel. Go view your previously recorded program. Retune back to the channel you have paused and continue watching from where you left off.

vegggas

That's great. I can't. Whenever I start a show, bounce to another once (or go live), and come back to the original show, I'm forced to start watching from the beginning. Great design. :(

Ahhhhhhhhhh - BACK to what this forum is about!

All this TiVo CRAP does not help people like wingzz.
I understand what you're saying, BUT if this TiVo crap helps us improve the SA8300, doesn't that help us all? TiVo has some superior features, right? Let's see if we can get those on the SA.

There is a "search by Title" feature in SARA software. "Guide" then "A" it is limited by each day though and all the shows are listed and have to be scrolled through.
I'm sorry, that's just not very useful.

SDV was designed and announced YEARS BEFORE TIVO made an announcement about the S3. The physical requirement for a return path has been a known requirement for several years. Tivo simply decided not to add that hardware to their design. If you say that the CC2.0 is not final, that's correct. It's still hammering out SOFTWARE details. The Hardware spec about needing a return path, was known for many years.
I'm not doubting your statement since I have no way to verify it, but how would TiVo's decision not to include the hardware benefit them in any way? Why would they have done that? I'm honestly asking for my understanding because it likely cost them my business.

TWC has announced that they are using ther own new designed software, based loosely on Tivo features. Since they have direct control, they may actually have a better product overall, since they are already using a cable platform.
Really? Do you have a link or any more info? How far away would that be? I'm up for any improvement!

Jacksonian, I merely pointed out that it takes less than 10 seconds for me to set a series recording from the IPG for a program later in the week after hearing it on a promo. I gave exact button presses. Could you give a detailed example of how you would record "The Amazing Race" starting next sunday for all new episodes? It doesn't matter if you don't actually want to watch it, just go through the steps and explain it.

1) Find Programs 2) Choose program to record 3) Search by title 4) hit A-M-... and it will scroll 5) select Amazing race from either the analog or digital channel 6) select any recording options I want (like padding the recording by 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after so I don't miss anything, or how long to keep it, how many episodes to keep, etc...
The key here is not having to know what channel it comes on or what time.

You say you can't pause a show and watch another?
I can pause a show, go watch a previous recording, then go back to my paused show where I left off to skip the commercials. I've been doing that for years on the 8300 and the previous 8000. It's been documented in this tips and tricks thread.
Basic steps, if you haven't bothered to read the FIRST posts.
Hit record to buffer the non-watched, paused channel. Go view your previously recorded program. Retune back to the channel you have paused and continue watching from where you left off.
vegggas
Well, I guess you're right. I didn't read that I had to "record" the channel I was watching. I was so used to being able to just pause with TiVo and come right back. My ignorance for not reading and for thinking it would work the same way.

I understand what you're saying, BUT if this TiVo crap helps us improve the SA8300, doesn't that help us all? TiVo has some superior features, right? Let's see if we can get those on the SA.

But it doesn't help. It clutters the thread, forcing people looking for answers to sort through pages of this CRAP.

The only function the TiVo discussion here serves is to let you guys vent.

Originally Posted by vegggas
TWC has announced that they are using ther own new designed software, based loosely on Tivo features. Since they have direct control, they may actually have a better product overall, since they are already using a cable platform.
Really? Do you have a link or any more info? How far away would that be? I'm up for any improvement!

I guess that you are too busy venting to READ. Check out THIS THREAD Post #3767 made by RussB at 3:04 AM. You even acknowledged it at 9:08AM in your post #3770.


AGAIN: Why don't you guys start a TiVo vs SA thread and stop hijacking this thread!

AGAIN: Why don't you guys start a TiVo vs SA thread and stop hijacking this thread!

I certainly hope you're directing that remark to your hero, veggggggas, who incited this flamefest with his incendiary and mistake-laden post HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8412283&&#post8412283) titled "OK you Tivo Whiners - Go buy your S3 Tivo..."

I work for Cox here, and my roommate bought the S3. I cant wait to return the SA 8300 HD DVR. I cant stand the 8300, many times I wanted to throw out due to its outdated guide as well as my roommate for it not recording shows.

I am just waiting for my cablecards installation for thursday. However. the funny part is that the S3 shows all the frequencies and we can see someone ordering VOD through it. Pretty weird.


Mark

AGAIN: Why don't you guys start a TiVo vs SA thread and stop hijacking this thread!If you recall, I made the same proposal quite a while ago (shortly after the 8300 was released), but was flamed royally for acting as if I owned the thread simply because I started it. I even tried to start a thread, but got no takers because I guess it's no fun for them if there is no audience. :)

I only join in because I actually learn some things, at least from Jacksonian, that and they p*ss me off. For example, I didn't know the Tivo search function was copied from Moxi. :)

Ok, that's hitting below the belt. ;) I guess I'm just not sure the discussion is all for naught. Plus, I don't see anyone up in arms over the posts about Navigator in this SARA thread. Granted they aren't quite as verbose (yet) as some of my posts, but they don't belong here any more than the Tivo stuff. I really don't even like to mention that because I don't want to invite a whole other round of "My Navigator As Better Than Your SARA" posts, though I suspect those are coming. At least the Passport folks had the good sense to start their own thread, though we still cross over sometimes.

At any rate, in differnce to you, I'll stop unless there is simply something said abot SARA that need to be corrected. How's that?

I only join in because I actually learn some things, at least from Jacksonian, that and they p*ss me off. For example, I didn't know the Tivo search function was copied from Moxi. :)

Well, you're nothing if not consistent. As in, consistently wrong. TiVo was showing their stuff in 1998. Moxi wasn't even founded until 2000, and didn't start showing their stuff until 2002. The TiVo was a well-established and mature platform by that time.

Evidence : HERE (http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/1000721).
AND HERE. (http://www.convergedigest.com/Daily/daily.asp?vn=v9n002&fecha=January%2008,%202002)

Yeah, TiVo must have gone forward 4-5 years into the future and ripped off Moxi.

Try doing at least one Google search before stammering on without making sense, please...

It's a JOKE Paul, sheesh! Can't you see the smiley? Are you that blinded by hatred that you take everything so seriously for gosh sakes? I can't believe you are that gullible and fell for thast hook, line, and sinker.1

The sarcasm didn't come through clearly enough, despite the smileys. The "joke" appeared to be completely in line as yet another one of your typical comments.

Ignore list now active.

But it doesn't help. It clutters the thread, forcing people looking for answers to sort through pages of this CRAP.

The only function the TiVo discussion here serves is to let you guys vent.
I strongly disagree with you. I actually emailed all the top execs at my local TWC yesterday and got an email reply today from the President asking for more details on why I was dissatisfied with the SA 8300, and another exec actually called me today to talk about it. I'm in the process of composing an email reply to him that summarizes the deficiencies of the SA 8300. This might actually serve to make some progress, at least in my area.

Thanks, Dave for the spirited and educational discussion. I won't clutter the thread any longer. But I learned enough from our discussion to be able to talk with our TWC president to see if we can make some changes. He may just patronize me, but I'm going to try. I'll limit any posts in here to "tips & tricks" :D and maybe a question or two :D

See my PM. If I can help in any way, let me know.

You guys may not care at this point, but crazywoody pointed out the new Navigator software. You can go to the TWC Nebraska site and see it here:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/nebraska/products/cable/mdn/mdn_intro.html

click on the "Answers On Demand" for a more detailed description of features. It looks like they basically address most all of the common TiVo functions that they had been missing [better guide, title search, recording history log, conflict management, Show list (like Now Showing?), series recording options (more developed than the single option SARA) like padding, etc...]

Wow, I'm impressed. My guess is that it won't be as slick and as quick as TiVo, but it addresses most all of the major functionality advantages that TiVo had over SARA. My only concern is a lawsuit from TiVo. Frankly, from the looks of Navigator, it's a thinly veiled copy of TiVo, so they probably should sue (boy I hate to ever say that).

But we'll take this to another thread if anyone is interested. I guess my email to the local TWC president now will be simply: "May I please have Navigator?" :D

RussB posted this:TWC has licensed some features from TiVo to be used in the Digital Navigator. If true, you should "hate to say that", the sue word, that is. :)

Ooooh!! Hmm, I'm confused at what TiVo is doing. The Navigator pictures look like a weird cross breeding between the current SA interface and a TiVo, but not a full TiVo. Would they be trying to do a little of both--sell some features but keep the real slick interface for their own hardware?

My apologies for not being able to keep up with everything Russ and crazywoody posted here. There's just way too much going on in this field for me to keep up with. I feel like I've spent entire days reading these forums, oh wait, I HAVE!! :D

Link to Navigator thread (before I get lynched)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8434123#post8434123

Evidence : HERE.
AND HERE.
Paul - All that shows is that Moxi was started in 2002. Everyone knows that Tivo was started last year :) :) :) <---Can't miss these babies!

If you guys don't stay on topic, I'll change the name of this thread to SA 8300 HD & ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). :) :) :)

Jacksonian, that must have been some email if you are gonna be talking directly to the President. Sounds like you need to send everyone here a copy of that so we can do the same. ;)

Ok, folks, I'm with Dave Hancock now and would like to get this thread back on track. I think we've beat up on Paul and, by extension, Jacksonian enough for 1 week. I'll be curious to see what response he gets from TWC (and I applaud his efforts), but in the meantime I'd like to know how many folks, other than TWC subscribers, still have not been upgraded to a 1.88.x.x version of the SARA software. The reason I ask is because I'd like to update the first post in this thread at some point and delete whatever info is no longer needed. I cross-post the post in a number of forums and I've already had to split it for one of them because of length. :)

FWIW, I've been enjoying the discussions about TIVO vs the 8300, even though they are arguably off topic. Like most, I'm very critical of the 8300's UI and would love to see some improvements.

Reading this thread is giving me some hope of what's possible and I'm getting a real education from all the knowledgeable folks posting here.:)

Does anyone have an "in" with TWC central NY? Summer is winding down and still no 1.88 firmware upgrade for us....they won't even answer my emails when I ask about a projected date. I'm real sick of getting kicked out to live. I'd like to know if I could just ahve a date they plan to migrate, so I know there's light at the end of the tunnel

Does anyone have an "in" with TWC central NY? Summer is winding down and still no 1.88 firmware upgrade for us....they won't even answer my emails when I ask about a projected date. I'm real sick of getting kicked out to live. I'd like to know if I could just ahve a date they plan to migrate, so I know there's light at the end of the tunnel

Could you be a little more clear about your location ("Central NY" just does not cut it for me: Syracuse, Ithica, Binghamton, Albany, etc.).

Rochester has had it for several months now, I was pretty sure that Syracuse had it too.

Does anyone have an "in" with TWC central NY? Summer is winding down and still no 1.88 firmware upgrade for us....they won't even answer my emails when I ask about a projected date. I'm real sick of getting kicked out to live. I'd like to know if I could just ahve a date they plan to migrate, so I know there's light at the end of the tunnelTo avoid being kicked out to live until you get the 1.88 upgrade, use the following tip from the first post.

Watch A Recording In Progress. UG-18 Stop the current recording and save it (usually during a commercial). Then start a "new" recording to finish the program by pressing the Record button and then press the Pause button. You can now view the first part from the beginning and then view the second part, either in progress or from the beginning after it finishes. While it is annoying to divide the recording into segments, at least you can easily skip to the beginning without rewinding, certainly a useful feature for time-shifting.

Could you be a little more clear about your location ("Central NY" just does not cut it for me: Syracuse, Ithica, Binghamton, Albany, etc.).

Rochester has had it for several months now, I was pretty sure that Syracuse had it too.

Sorry I wasn't specific Dave....Rome, NY...which is serviced out of Syracuse I believe.

Jacksonian, that must have been some email if you are gonna be talking directly to the President. Sounds like you need to send everyone here a copy of that so we can do the same. ;)
It was Jack Stanley, president of our local TWC franchise (note I said that I had emailed all of our LOCAL TWC execs). Here's what I sent him:

Dear Mr. Stanley,
I am a long time TWC customer here in Greensboro, and I would like to remain as one. However, I am completely unsatisfied with the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD-DVR with SARA software that our local TWC uses.

I would like to purchase a new TiVo Series 3 that records HD. But I have been told by TWC Greensboro that they are in the process of rolling out SDV (switched digital) for all of our channels which will in essence render all current cable card devices (both televisions and HD TiVos) non-functional.

I understand the need to conserve and recover bandwidth, but this seems to violate at least the spirit, if not the letter of the cable card legislation. It forces TWC customers to use the Scientific Atlanta DVR if they want to even watch, much less record any channels on SDV.

I would be happy to lease a TWC DVR if they could provide one with a comparable feature set and interface to TiVo. However, if TWC cannot do this and proceeds with SDV I will have no choice but to terminate my relationship with TWC and switch to Dish or DirecTV.

Please help us find a solution to this issue.

and here's his reply:

First, thank you for your long time service with Time Warner Cable. Our engineering team is looking into the issues you have raised. Once this analysis is complete a detailed response will be forthcoming. You mentioned dissatisfaction with the 8300 HD DVR, but didn't provided specifics. I am interested in knowing more about your experience with this set top box.

As to cable card rules, currently they apply only to compatible digital television sets and do not have all the functionality of set top boxes. As of July 07 set top boxes will also have separable security using a cablecard type device. We are currently engaged in a project with Scientific Atlanta to separate the security in our set top box to comply with the OCAP mandate next year. The industry is in the midst of transition which almost always generates ample amounts of confusion. Hopefully we can answer your questions with some certainty and clear up any remaining confusion.


and my reply to that:

Dear Mr. Stanley,
Thank you so much for your reply. I am excited that you are interested in these issues.

I'm not sure if you've ever had the opportunity to use a TiVo in your home for a period of time. Basically, the features offered by TiVo for the past 6-7 years have been far advanced over those of the SA 8300 with the current SARA. I'll outline the issues below:

Please note these issues are related specifically to the SARA software. I've seen the Passport software that TWC Charlotte and Raleigh use and it is definitely superior to SARA.

1- User Interface
This is probably the most important factor as it is the actual interface with the system.

Folders- When you view your "List" screen, it just has all of your shows listed in order of record date. There's no way to organize them. My neighbor has kids and has dozens of kids shows on the DVR all the time and has to scroll through all of them to find one of his shows. TiVo allows you to put all of your episodes of the same show into one folder.

FF markers- There are no marked spots in the recording. If you want to fast forward to a specific spot, it can take several minutes to slowly FF through to the part you want. TiVo has markers every 15 minutes in a show that you can instantly zip to.

Kick back to live- If you start watching a recording while it's still in progress, when the 8300 gets finished recording the show, it kicks you out to "Live" which interrupts your viewing and you now have to restart the viewing of the recording and sit and wait while you fast forward to the spot you left off from as I mentioned above. [I understand that this has been corrected in more current SARA releases that TWC Greensboro doesn't have yet].

2- Setting up recordings
The SA8300 can't search by title or key word. You have to be able to manually scroll through channels and times to find a program you want to record. With TiVo (and Passport), you can search for a show by title and keyword. For example, you can type in "F-R-A-S" and pull up "Frasier" and then tell it to record it. It doesn't matter what channel the show is on, it will find it. With SARA, you would have to go find every channel that showed Frasier reruns and repeat the process.

The current SARA software doesn't have a good way of resolving conflicts between recordings, you aren't able to designate which show takes priority over another. For example, TiVo allows me to prioritize my shows, so that if both a Frasier rerun and a new episode of Survivor conflict, it knows to record Survivor.

3-Recording options
SARA doesn't give you any options for recording such as "padding" like TiVo. If you know that NCAA football games tend to run late and you don't want to miss an overtime, TiVo allows you to pad the recording by adding 30mins, 1hr, etc...to the recording time. With SARA, you would have to scroll through and tell it to record the next show coming on after the ballgame. And then it would be listed as two different shows on your recorded list.

SARA also gives you very limited options over managing recurring recordings as far as how long to keep them, padding, etc...

SARA currently has no recording history. If a show wasn't recorded, you have no way to find out if it was pre-empted, whether it was deleted, etc...

4- SARA updates
I belong to several online forums (www.avsforum.com , www.tivocommunity.com ) where users share their experiences with each DVR and cable system. I know that other TWC users on SARA have more updated software version releases that have more features and improvements. I've been frustrated that TWC Greensboro has not kept up with the other markets.


As I was composing this email, I found out about the Navigator software that TWC has developed through the AVS forum I mentioned above. I see pictures and descriptions of it here at the TWC Nebraska web site : http://www.timewarnercable.com/nebraska/products/cable/mdn/mdn_dvr.html

This software appears to address almost all of the issues I just outlined. Please tell me we're getting the Navigator software, and soon.

It was Jack Stanley, president of our local TWC franchise (note I said that I had emailed all of our LOCAL TWC execs). Here's what I sent him:

Dear Mr. Stanley,
I am a long time TWC customer here in Greensboro, and I would like to remain as one. However, I am completely unsatisfied with the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD-DVR with SARA software that our local TWC uses.

I would like to purchase a new TiVo Series 3 that records HD. But I have been told by TWC Greensboro that they are in the process of rolling out SDV (switched digital) for all of our channels which will in essence render all current cable card devices (both televisions and HD TiVos) non-functional.

I understand the need to conserve and recover bandwidth, but this seems to violate at least the spirit, if not the letter of the cable card legislation. It forces TWC customers to use the Scientific Atlanta DVR if they want to even watch, much less record any channels on SDV.

I would be happy to lease a TWC DVR if they could provide one with a comparable feature set and interface to TiVo. However, if TWC cannot do this and proceeds with SDV I will have no choice but to terminate my relationship with TWC and switch to Dish or DirecTV.

Please help us find a solution to this issue.

and here's his reply:

First, thank you for your long time service with Time Warner Cable. Our engineering team is looking into the issues you have raised. Once this analysis is complete a detailed response will be forthcoming. You mentioned dissatisfaction with the 8300 HD DVR, but didn't provided specifics. I am interested in knowing more about your experience with this set top box.

As to cable card rules, currently they apply only to compatible digital television sets and do not have all the functionality of set top boxes. As of July 07 set top boxes will also have separable security using a cablecard type device. We are currently engaged in a project with Scientific Atlanta to separate the security in our set top box to comply with the OCAP mandate next year. The industry is in the midst of transition which almost always generates ample amounts of confusion. Hopefully we can answer your questions with some certainty and clear up any remaining confusion.


and my reply to that:

Dear Mr. Stanley,
Thank you so much for your reply. I am excited that you are interested in these issues.

I'm not sure if you've ever had the opportunity to use a TiVo in your home for a period of time. Basically, the features offered by TiVo for the past 6-7 years have been far advanced over those of the SA 8300 with the current SARA. I'll outline the issues below:

Please note these issues are related specifically to the SARA software. I've seen the Passport software that TWC Charlotte and Raleigh use and it is definitely superior to SARA.

1- User Interface
This is probably the most important factor as it is the actual interface with the system.

Folders- When you view your "List" screen, it just has all of your shows listed in order of record date. There's no way to organize them. My neighbor has kids and has dozens of kids shows on the DVR all the time and has to scroll through all of them to find one of his shows. TiVo allows you to put all of your episodes of the same show into one folder.
You can sort the "List" screen alphabetically by pressing the B key to go to Preferences and using the up arrow key to go to the "Sort Recorded List alphabetically" and selecting it. You go also sort it by time recorded which is the default. It is easy to switch sorts depending on how you want to see the List.
FF markers- There are no marked spots in the recording. If you want to fast forward to a specific spot, it can take several minutes to slowly FF through to the part you want. TiVo has markers every 15 minutes in a show that you can instantly zip to.

Kick back to live- If you start watching a recording while it's still in progress, when the 8300 gets finished recording the show, it kicks you out to "Live" which interrupts your viewing and you now have to restart the viewing of the recording and sit and wait while you fast forward to the spot you left off from as I mentioned above. [I understand that this has been corrected in more current SARA releases that TWC Greensboro doesn't have yet]..See my previous post for a workaround for this.
2- Setting up recordings
The SA8300 can't search by title or key word. You have to be able to manually scroll through channels and times to find a program you want to record. With TiVo (and Passport), you can search for a show by title and keyword. For example, you can type in "F-R-A-S" and pull up "Frasier" and then tell it to record it. It doesn't matter what channel the show is on, it will find it. With SARA, you would have to go find every channel that showed Frasier reruns and repeat the process.

The current SARA software doesn't have a good way of resolving conflicts between recordings, you aren't able to designate which show takes priority over another. For example, TiVo allows me to prioritize my shows, so that if both a Frasier rerun and a new episode of Survivor conflict, it knows to record Survivor.

3-Recording options
SARA doesn't give you any options for recording such as "padding" like TiVo. If you know that NCAA football games tend to run late and you don't want to miss an overtime, TiVo allows you to pad the recording by adding 30mins, 1hr, etc...to the recording time. With SARA, you would have to scroll through and tell it to record the next show coming on after the ballgame. And then it would be listed as two different shows on your recorded list.

SARA also gives you very limited options over managing recurring recordings as far as how long to keep them, padding, etc...

SARA currently has no recording history. If a show wasn't recorded, you have no way to find out if it was pre-empted, whether it was deleted, etc...

4- SARA updates
I belong to several online forums (www.avsforum.com , www.tivocommunity.com ) where users share their experiences with each DVR and cable system. I know that other TWC users on SARA have more updated software version releases that have more features and improvements. I've been frustrated that TWC Greensboro has not kept up with the other markets.


As I was composing this email, I found out about the Navigator software that TWC has developed through the AVS forum I mentioned above. I see pictures and descriptions of it here at the TWC Nebraska web site : http://www.timewarnercable.com/nebraska/products/cable/mdn/mdn_dvr.html

This software appears to address almost all of the issues I just outlined. Please tell me we're getting the Navigator software, and soon.

I reported here last June that I was having problems with the 1.88.17.a100 firmware upgrade. The HDMI output on one of my 8300s stopped working. I have two 8300s and one worked with HDMI but the other didn’t.
I’m now able to turn the problem on and off with either unit but not without trading off surround sound. Both boxes work fine over HDMI if the audio output is set to HDMI (2 channel PCM). Neither box will work correctly, with HDMI, if the audio output is set to ‘Dolby Digital’. If I’m watching something over HDMI and switch the audio to ‘Dolby Digital’ everything works fine, until the 8300 is turned off and back on. When the 8300 is turned back on, I get the audio but the video shows as a severe case of snow. Both of my TVs (Samsung DLP and Panasonic plasma) show the same symptoms.
I know others have reported problems with the 8300 and HDMI but has anyone gotten it to work with a Dolby Digital output and the 1.88... firmware? TWC here in Central Texas (near Killeen) has told me I’m the only customer that they have with HDMI problems, that they can’t fix. If you are able to get HDMI to work with Dolby Digital, what level of firmware do you have?
My current workaround is to use component outputs, which I hope is temporary.

You can sort the "List" screen alphabetically by pressing the B key to go to Preferences and using the up arrow key to go to the "Sort Recorded List alphabetically" and selecting it. You go also sort it by time recorded which is the default. It is easy to switch sorts depending on how you want to see the List.
But you still have to scroll through all fo the A's or B's, etc...right? That's painful.

But you still have to scroll through all fo the A's or B's, etc...right? That's painful.Yes, you do have to scroll through all the letters, but it is easier to find a particular show. You can just look at the first letter until you get close instead of having to read each title.

Jacksonian,

Good exchange. I was really happy to see you included references to newer software releases having "fixes" for some of your complaints. I also thought the responses you got were surprisingly good. I suspect you will eventually end up with Navigator and then I'll get to envy you. :) I fnothing else, you were able to get the attention of someone who seems to be interested, much like i did what I tried the same tact regarding the purchace vs lease policy here for the SA3250HD way bakc when. Sometimes emailing every address you can find turns up onethat just might be able to help change things.

I must admit I hadn't thought of that kind of use for Folders, but I can now see how that would be useful, though I still have no need for them myself. I always understood the search, but do people really use it to find all episodes of Frazier and all channels? :) :D :)

Anyway, I trust you will post whatever you get in response. I agree with Jim Boden that I'm not as opposed to getting off-topic as some are, but I guess we can keep it shorter if nothing else. :)

[QUOTE=DoubleDAZ]... but in the meantime I'd like to know how many folks, other than TWC subscribers, still have not been upgraded to a 1.88.x.x version of the SARA software. [QUOTE]
Dave-

I'm on Cox Cable, Edmond OK (north of OKC) and we are still on 1.87.16.1.

Sean

Atlantic Broadband, South Florida, still on 1.87.27.1 and finding nobody who knows what the hell is a software update on a DVR.

Sergio

Yeah, I don't know why I even asked, we're not technically on 1.88.x.x here either for crying out loud. I guess the Tivo discussion just wore me out, forget I asked. :)

3-Recording options
SARA doesn't give you any options for recording such as "padding" like TiVo. If you know that NCAA football games tend to run late and you don't want to miss an overtime, TiVo allows you to pad the recording by adding 30mins, 1hr, etc...to the recording time. With SARA, you would have to scroll through and tell it to record the next show coming on after the ballgame. And then it would be listed as two different shows on your recorded list.
FWIW...
You should be able to pad the times on your recording. It's been a standard feature with SARA since the original 8000 DVR. Just click on the times for start and finish and adjust accordingly.
Also, during scrolling, you do know that you can push and hold down almost any button for two seconds and it will warp across the screen at a fast rate, right?
I can go through the entire channel lineup from the first channel through to last channel in about 6 seconds, or through a week of data on a channel in about 10 seconds.

vegggas

One caveat, correct me if I'm wrong. I believe until 1.88.x.x, SARA would not save changes to the start/stop times for "season passes". Before 1.88.x.x, SARA would use the changed time, but for the currently scheduled episode only, the one highlighted in the IPG. Once the program was recorded, the time for the next scheduled episode was back to the original time. Therefore, you couldn't set a season pass for something like NCAA, MNF, etc., and pad it by 30 minutes without doing so each week as the program got highlighted in the IPG. There were several posts about this shortly after I got the 1.88.x.x upgrade.
EDIT: You cannot change the start/stop times if you select the All Episodes This Timeslot option.

As for the warp speed, that is true. What I think they are specifically talking about though is the schedule for a specific channel. When you scroll sideways on that channel, you cannot "see" the programs as it is scrolling, all you see is the time change. IMHO, the way Tivo (and Moxi) do it, by presenting a list of all programs on that channel as a pop-up if you will, is far better. I'd settle for a 1.5 hour tab in SARA to move across a given channel's schedule. For example: I was looking for Star Trek on CW a minute ago. I knew it was on at 9:00 pm, so I was able to scroll to it quickly. But, if I hadn't known the time, I'd have had to scroll slowly across the schedule until I saw it. On Tivo/Moki, all I would have to do is select that channel and the list pops up making it very easy to then find Star Trek, regardless of the time.

The other hint about scrolling up/down is that you can use the page button to scroll in increments of 5. This may not be all that useful going through the IPG (and it doesn't help the sideway scroll), but it certainly helps when going through a list of recorded programs, especially when sorted by title.

I always understood the search, but do people really use it to find all episodes of Frazier and all channels? :) :D :)
The one time it REALLY came in handy was when I got hooked on Family Guy. I was late to find out how funny it was, so I was desperate to get all the old episodes. TiVo found them on sevral different channels at all different times of the night. That alone was worth it! :D

FWIW...
You should be able to pad the times on your recording. It's been a standard feature with SARA since the original 8000 DVR. Just click on the times for start and finish and adjust accordingly.
What Dave said. You can't set it to pad all of your Survivor episodes, you would have to do it one by one.


Also, during scrolling, you do know that you can push and hold down almost any button for two seconds and it will warp across the screen at a fast rate, right?
I can go through the entire channel lineup from the first channel through to last channel in about 6 seconds, or through a week of data on a channel in about 10 seconds.

Also, what Dave said. That works for you because you're not using the guide to find anything. For the rest of us, it's painful.

FWIW...
You should be able to pad the times on your recording. It's been a standard feature with SARA since the original 8000 DVR. Just click on the times for start and finish and adjust accordingly.
Also, during scrolling, you do know that you can push and hold down almost any button for two seconds and it will warp across the screen at a fast rate, right?
I can go through the entire channel lineup from the first channel through to last channel in about 6 seconds, or through a week of data on a channel in about 10 seconds.

vegggas
Thanks for the tip on padding. I usually set a manual recording but this does not give me the title for my program.

I also do a semi-warp so I have an "over-developed" thumb like a Gamer.

DirecTV's replacement for Tivo has a lot of the features talked about but no manual recording. I'll have to see if I can pad their scheduling.

Hey, I got the SA8300HD, using HDMI-DVI on my Westinghouse 37". There is a problem through. I cannot get sidebars to disapear on SD channels.

I can use FILL on my tv, but then HD channels will be cropped a bit. I don't want to have to press the # button on the remote everytime I switch channels.

I've entered set up and enabled 1080i, 720p, 480p (tested with both standard and widescreen off and on).

The weird this is, when I use the PIP from my tv, and watch tv on the secondary input(smaller screen) the SD channels are stretched correctly.

Anyone know what's going on?

HEy Veggas,

Do you think a cablecard would be better in my new mitsu 65831for firewire recording to my netcomand device would work better than ota or 3250 as a firewire imput?
"Teach"

The one time it REALLY came in handy was when I got hooked on Family Guy. I was late to find out how funny it was, so I was desperate to get all the old episodes. TiVo found them on sevral different channels at all different times of the night. That alone was worth it! :DOk, here's a challenge for you. Let's put a price tag on every feature you use and assign it a frequency multiplier. Then let's see how long it takes to get to $800 plus $13/mo. :) You're right though, there is no way to do that with SARA, at least not that wouldn't be extremely painful and not worth the effort. Of course, did I mention TitanTV was free? :)

Dave

We know you love the 8300 but there is no way you can compare a TIVO to it. The 8300 is extremely unfriendly, specialy for those like me who still have the 1.87. The lack of a decent search function, no "start from the beginning" when playing a recording program, the poor guide and lots of problems to detect a new episode, just to mention a few problems. The TIVO software is so good that watching TV is a totally new experience and the 8300 is the worst DVR I have seen, worse than any Dish or Directv.

800 bucks for a HD TIVO is a bargain and my only big concern is the reliability of the cablecards (I have already had 5 replaced!).

I do appreciate everything you do here and you helped me a lot to "survive" with my 8300 but , please, don't tell us the 8300 is in the same league as any TIVO.

Sergio

My sentiments exactly, slimoli. I tried giving the 8300 a second chance yesterday with college football. I recorded 2 HD games going on simultaneously two separate times, the 3:30 games and the 8:00 games.

Not being able to start from the beginning of the recording program is agony. I started watching the Auburn/LSU game and then wanted to switch over and catch up on the Notre Dame/Michigan game. But as soon as you flip to the other game, it's right in the middle of the recording, showing you the score. Then I had to rewind for a good 3 minutes to get back to the beginning. Then when I finish that game and try to go back and pick back up on the Auburn game, (it's finished recording now), I have to start from the very beginning and fast forward for about 5 minutes to get back to where I had the recording paused.

Not going to rehash all that crap again. I though we had a good discussion going, but I guess I was wrong and now regret wasting my time. I should have heeded Dave Hancock's advice to simply ignore this stuff and will do so from now on.

Sergio, I said nothing of the sort and don't need to be patronized. I love my wife and kids, not any piece of hardware.

Jacksonian, I'm really disappointed. :(

My comments were entirely relevent to the SA8300 and what needs to be improved.

How are you guys finding the firmware version? I just got this yesterday because I am dumping DTV.

If you have SARA, there are instructions in the first post in this thread. If you have Passport, I believe there are links to instructions in the first post of that thread. You'll know which one you have by trying the SARA instructions to see if they work. Let us know if you need more help figuring it out.

jacksonian and slimoli,

There is an easy to use workaround for the no "start from the beginning" when playing a recording program. See my previous post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8436577&&#post8436577). Have you tried this?

jacksonian,

To watch two sports events, you can use the PIP and if you record both events you can swap between the two events and even turn off PIP without problems as long as you don't exceed the 1 hour buffer.

Hey, I got the SA8300HD, using HDMI-DVI on my Westinghouse 37". There is a problem through. I cannot get sidebars to disapear on SD channels.

I can use FILL on my tv, but then HD channels will be cropped a bit. I don't want to have to press the # button on the remote everytime I switch channels.

I've entered set up and enabled 1080i, 720p, 480p (tested with both standard and widescreen off and on).

The weird this is, when I use the PIP from my tv, and watch tv on the secondary input(smaller screen) the SD channels are stretched correctly.

Anyone know what's going on?

I think you want to set it up in pass-through mode on the 8300 box. Do this through the settings - Picture Format. Then the 8300 will send 480i to the TV and it'll deal with it.

jacksonian and slimoli,

There is an easy to use workaround for the no "start from the beginning" when playing a recording program. See my previous post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8436577&&#post8436577). Have you tried this?

jacksonian,

To watch two sports events, you can use the PIP and if you record both events you can swap between the two events and even turn off PIP without problems as long as you don't exceed the 1 hour buffer.
Thanks for the tips, Russ, but it still seems too cumbersome. I'll know the score of the game when I switch over to it to stop it and start a new recording. As for PIP, I prefer to watch each game in its full glory :)

...
Not being able to start from the beginning of the recording program is agony.
...Since you don't want to try an easy workaround, I guess you will have to live in agony, at least until you get 1.88.x.x.

:D

Maybe, TWC's Digital Navigator will offer that option.

I think you want to set it up in pass-through mode on the 8300 box. Do this through the settings - Picture Format. Then the 8300 will send 480i to the TV and it'll deal with it.Two things here:
1. I believe the Pass-Through option changes to Auto-HDMI when you connect via HDMI, but I thought that kind of worked the same as Pass-Through. I believe the Westy is an LCD, so the resolution is automatically formatted for the display and that might be the problem. Here's the excerpt from the first post in this thread:
Pass Through - Passes the input signal through to the output with no change, unless you disable certain resolutions. For example 480i in to 480i out, 480P in to 480P out, 1080i in to 1080i out, 720P in to 720P out. If you disable 720P, 720P in will go to 1080i out.

Auto HDMI/DVI - If you are using the HDMI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV.2. If he doesn't enable 480i, it won't pass 480i. Some HDTVs don't accept 480i over HDMI, but I'd try it to see if it makes a difference. However, if he is getting 480p, his TV should stretch it, though again I'm not sure about LCDs.

I'm not a happy camper.

I've had a 8300HD from Adelphia in south Florida for about a year. I have been capturing video using S-Video and a Hauppauge PVR 150-MCE. Ready to upgrade, I spent the weekend moving hardware, downloading Vista RC1, setting it up, firewire patches, etc. Everything in firewire settings on the PC seems ok. It wasn't working so I got into the 8300HD menus, Sara 1.88.19.1, ok. Then I found all 8300HD firewire settings were UNAVAILABLE. Bad words uttered.

Would you take it back, call them and ask to turn on firewire, or other options???

Actually I never get HD locals worth a hoot, so I do have a beef anyway.

I'm not a happy camper.

I've had a 8300HD from Adelphia in south Florida for about a year. I have been capturing video using S-Video and a Hauppauge PVR 150-MCE. Ready to upgrade, I spent the weekend moving hardware, downloading Vista RC1, setting it up, firewire patches, etc. Everything in firewire settings on the PC seems ok. It wasn't working so I got into the 8300HD menus, Sara 1.88.19.1, ok. Then I found all 8300HD firewire settings were UNAVAILABLE. Bad words uttered.

Would you take it back, call them and ask to turn on firewire, or other options???

Actually I never get HD locals worth a hoot, so I do have a beef anyway.

You should check out this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271) thread, which deals with Recording to a PC from the Firewire Out on the 8300.

Thanks for the tips, Russ, but it still seems too cumbersome. I'll know the score of the game when I switch over to it to stop it and start a new recording. As for PIP, I prefer to watch each game in its full glory :)

Just close your eyes. Then you won't see the score! Of course, you won't be able to work the menus.... :)

Hey, it's not a bug, it's a feature!

Two things here:
1. I believe the Pass-Through option changes to Auto-HDMI when you connect via HDMI, but I thought that kind of worked the same as Pass-Through. I believe the Westy is an LCD, so the resolution is automatically formatted for the display and that might be the problem.

Agggh -- you are exactly right -- sorry for the dumb-azz post of mine. I was flashing back to when I used component video connections rather than HDMI (which I use now).

So, with HDMI, I have the following hypothesis as to what's going on. Can anyone confirm/deny?

I think what's going on is that the TV and the 8300 box negotiate what to pass to the TV during the HDMI handshake. As far as I know, the resolution that the 8300 shows on its little display screen is exactly what it's passing to the TV. If it's sending 480i, the 8300 will say "480i" on its display. What does it say?

If it says "480i" then it's the TV that's deciding to use sidebars rather than stretching the picture. Perhaps there's a TV configuration setting to make it stretch.

If it says "1080i" or "720p" then the problem is that the TV is telling the 8300 that it doesn't support 480i, so the 8300 box is upconverting and inserting the sidebars.

Thanks for the tips, Russ, but it still seems too cumbersome. I'll know the score of the game when I switch over to it to stop it and start a new recording. As for PIP, I prefer to watch each game in its full glory :)

Here's another ugly work-around that I use. If I'm recording a game and I want to go back to the beginning and start watching it while it's recording the end, here's what I do:

1) Turn on the TV and mute it.
2) Turn on the 8300 box but hold my hand up in front of my face so that my vision is blocked where they normally display the score. Or the whole picture, maybe.
3) Rewind to the beginning using the four-arrows 128x warp speed feature. Takes maybe 10-15 seconds total at most.
4) Unmute and watch the game, fast-forwarding through the time-outs and commercials.

Yeah, ugly I know, but it is a surprisingly effective technique.

2) Turn on the 8300 box but hold my hand up in front of my face so that my vision is blocked where they normally display the score. Or the whole picture, maybe.
(...)
Yeah, ugly I know, but it is a surprisingly effective technique.Been there ... done that ...
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/explorer_8000/message/3010

Okay DoubleD... your post about padding the recordings intrigued me greatly! I now have 1.88 software (Thanks again for that!) so I should be able to pad episodes and it will remember it for future episodes? As long as I choose to record new episodes only instead of all episodes on this channel at any time? The main reason that would be awesome is bc NBC has been horrible with "My Name is Earl" and "The Office" overlapping their intended time slots. I hate having to first of all remember the issue and then manually change the recording time every week. This may have already been covered in detail but I didn't see anything about it in the first post but I may have skimmed too quickly. Thanks!

Got it. I'm on 1.88.19.1.

Thanks.

Here's another ugly work-around that I use. If I'm recording a game and I want to go back to the beginning and start watching it while it's recording the end, here's what I do:

1) Turn on the TV and mute it.
2) Turn on the 8300 box but hold my hand up in front of my face so that my vision is blocked where they normally display the score. Or the whole picture, maybe.
3) Rewind to the beginning using the four-arrows 128x warp speed feature. Takes maybe 10-15 seconds total at most.
4) Unmute and watch the game, fast-forwarding through the time-outs and commercials.

Yeah, ugly I know, but it is a surprisingly effective technique.

I thought if you have the version of software that has 4 arrows, then you have the version of software that also allows you to watch currently being recorded shows using the "Play from Beginning" option? And it doesn't kick you out to live when finished.

I thought if you have the version of software that has 4 arrows, then you have the version of software that also allows you to watch currently being recorded shows using the "Play from Beginning" option? And it doesn't kick you out to live when finished.That is true, but not all cable systems have updated the SARA software to 1.88.x.x, where the "Play from Beginning" option was added. This information is only needed for people who do not have 1.88.x.x.

Okay DoubleD... your post about padding the recordings intrigued me greatly! I now have 1.88 software (Thanks again for that!) so I should be able to pad episodes and it will remember it for future episodes? As long as I choose to record new episodes only instead of all episodes on this channel at any time? The main reason that would be awesome is bc NBC has been horrible with "My Name is Earl" and "The Office" overlapping their intended time slots. I hate having to first of all remember the issue and then manually change the recording time every week. This may have already been covered in detail but I didn't see anything about it in the first post but I may have skimmed too quickly. Thanks!You can pad episodes using any of the recording options. The following is a previous post I made:

I retested this on version 1.88.22.1 and it is different. This may be changed on earlier 1.88.x.x versions also. It remembers if you set a different start and/or end time and will start earlier or stop later by subtracting or adding the correct amount of time to subsequent recordings. It used to only work with "One episode". Now, it also works on "All epsiodes" with each of the different types of all episodes:
1) On this channel any day in this time slot
2) First Run only on this channel
3) On this channel at any time

Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8130869&&#post8130869) to go to that post.

Here's another ugly work-around that I use. If I'm recording a game and I want to go back to the beginning and start watching it while it's recording the end, here's what I do:

1) Turn on the TV and mute it.
2) Turn on the 8300 box but hold my hand up in front of my face so that my vision is blocked where they normally display the score. Or the whole picture, maybe.
3) Rewind to the beginning using the four-arrows 128x warp speed feature. Takes maybe 10-15 seconds total at most.
4) Unmute and watch the game, fast-forwarding through the time-outs and commercials.

Yeah, ugly I know, but it is a surprisingly effective technique.

Same as I used to do. Then, one beautiful morning at 3 AM, Comcast upgraded the firmware remotely. Boy, did it feel good to stop banging my head on the wall.

Russ,

I thought we agreed it didn't work with the "this timeslot" option. I thought I just tested that again the other night, but I'll double-check as soon as I get a chance. Is my menory going too? :)

Russ,

I thought we agreed it didn't work with the "this timeslot" option. I thought I just tested that again the other night, but I'll double-check as soon as I get a chance. Is my menory going too? :)Dave,

I haven't retested changing the start and/or stop times since I made the original post until tonight. I just scheduled a "this timeslot" recording all episodes with an earlier start time and a later stop time. When I look at the scheduled recordings page, all the recordings have the earlier start time and later stop times. I will see if they record during those times.

Well, if they are set, then they should record. I have a unit running 1.88.19.1, so I'll have to check that tonight to see if there was a change in 22. It could be though that I tried changing them after I set up the season pass and I think you have to do it from the get-go, right?

Guys,

I'm using the 8300HD, but I also want to run a S1 Tivo box in the same room. Is the Cable out on the 8300HD a passthrough for analog, that the Tivo could use to tune the analog tier? Or does it basically pipe out whatever channel the box it tuned to?

Thanks!

David

tgr131,
Output of box e.g. tuned channel or recording played. Modulated to channel 3 or 4?

TerryB

tgr131,
Output of box e.g. tuned channel or recording played. Modulated to channel 3 or 4?

TerryB

Thanks! Yep, thats how Tivo would handle it, I believe -- for analog, you mod to 3 or 4.

What kind of splitter do I need to feed the SA8300HD, and the Tivo, without affecting the SA8300 feed?

thanks,

David

You should check out this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271) thread, which deals with Recording to a PC from the Firewire Out on the 8300.

I have read this thread, and several others. It doesn't seem to answer my questions.

If I go into the 8300HD service menu of the box it shows that the 1394 (firewire) ports are "Unavailable". I called Adelphia and the guy said take the box back for a new one. They also admitted that all the local channels are hosed and they are not sending out techies, the problems originate at Adelphia. I went to the office at noon to get a different 8300HD. They said, "we only have refurbs and don't guarantee ANY of the ports to work".

My PC is set up correctly AFAIK with Vista RC1 and the patch to make the 1394 ports work. It does list the 8300HD tuner and panel in the devices and says they are working correctly. If I check my tray the devices are not listed because they are shut off on the box I assume.

If you check your 8300HD service menu, are the 1394 ports listed as "unavailable"? Did you get a different box or did the cable company activate them? Adelphia phone customer service also claimed that they can't activate the ports, which I question since they have updated firmeware several times.

Regarding an upgrade to 1.88.xx in the Syracuse/Central NY TWC area...here's what I got from the "horse's mouth"

"Mr. ----, your e-mail was forwarded to me about the newest version of
code for the DVR's. We do have this code available to us and we were
going to release it some months ago, but in addition to the enhanced
features, there were a few major bugs that we found that made us decide
to wait until Scientific Atlanta fixed them in the next DVR release of
code. There are some instances where the DVR will reboot, some "zero
length" recording problems and a major bug with the HDMI connection and
some TV's. Another bug has to do with the one feature that we know all
of our customers have been waiting for where the DVR will not kick you
out to live TV while recording a program. This feature currently only
works if you select the program through the list and select the play
from beginning feature. If you channel onto your recording and rewind
to the beginning it will still kick you out to live TV. If you would
like, I can put your DVR on the new code, I just wanted you to be aware
of the problems.

Our division here is one of the 3 Time Warner beta division's for DVR
code and we are always looking to upgrade the product, but we try to
only load new code after the major issues have been resolved.

---- --------
Digital System Administrator
Time Warner Cable - Syracuse Division"

So what do you 1.88 users think...should I opt for the upgrade to my box or wait? I don't use HDMI, so that bug isn't an issue for me - yet anyway. Do the pros outweigh the cons?

Go for it, if you wait for all of the "bugs" to be fixed you'll never get a new version of software for the rest of your life. Everything he mentions as "bugs" is how the 1.88.xx.x software works for all of us.

Imagine if you never upgraded your Microsoft Software until they released a version without any bugs, you still be running the original version of Windows. :p

So my question is this: Did those bugs exist before the upgraded software of 1.88.xx.xx or were those bugs introduced with the upgrade of the software?

If they existed before, then I don't see a problem with releasing the upgraded software.

Well I'm not sure what version they are holding onto in NY but 1.88.19 FIXED my HDMI issues. I am running the cable through an a/v receiver so there was a passthrough error before with 1.87. That may be different from the "television" bugs.

The pros outweigh the cons. I would suggest you get it.

I got the 1.88.22.1 update near the end of July and I have Houston TWC. The problems that he mentioned rarely occur. The DVR still reboots but this seldom happens. I haven't seen any zero length programs. The kick out to live bug has an easy work around, which is just use the "Play from Beginning" option that he describes. The ability to watch a program while it is still being recorded without being kicked out to live and the faster fourth forward and reverse speed make getting 1.88.22.1 worth it to me. I haven't seen a post from anyone who has 1.88.x.x who wants to go back to a pre 1.88.x.x version. New Features in software version 1.88.x.x. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052&&#post4682052) is the next to last section in the post.

Regarding an upgrade to 1.88.xx in the Syracuse/Central NY TWC area...here's what I got from the "horse's mouth"

"Mr. ----, your e-mail was forwarded to me about the newest version of
code for the DVR's. We do have this code available to us and we were
going to release it some months ago, but in addition to the enhanced
features, there were a few major bugs that we found that made us decide
to wait until Scientific Atlanta fixed them in the next DVR release of
code. There are some instances where the DVR will reboot, some "zero
length" recording problems and a major bug with the HDMI connection and
some TV's. Another bug has to do with the one feature that we know all
of our customers have been waiting for where the DVR will not kick you
out to live TV while recording a program. This feature currently only
works if you select the program through the list and select the play
from beginning feature. If you channel onto your recording and rewind
to the beginning it will still kick you out to live TV. If you would
like, I can put your DVR on the new code, I just wanted you to be aware
of the problems.

Our division here is one of the 3 Time Warner beta division's for DVR
code and we are always looking to upgrade the product, but we try to
only load new code after the major issues have been resolved.

---- --------
Digital System Administrator
Time Warner Cable - Syracuse Division"

So what do you 1.88 users think...should I opt for the upgrade to my box or wait? I don't use HDMI, so that bug isn't an issue for me - yet anyway. Do the pros outweigh the cons?

Right down the Thruway, the TW system in Rochester has had 1.88.17.100 for probably 5-6 months now. I would say that this version brought no additional
bugs. Some of the old ones (like mentioned) are still there. The only new one really just relates to the new feature: This feature currently only
works if you select the program through the list and select the play
from beginning feature.. And this is a problem? Not having the ability to "Play From The Beginning" from the List is a problem!

As others have pointed out: the "perfect" version will never come. However, when they (TW) make changes it does tend to cause some problems - so they try to avoid changes.

GET the New Version!!

OK..I've emailed TWC telling them I'd like them to push the upgrade to my box...I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all your inputs.

Our division here is one of the 3 Time Warner beta division's for DVR
code and we are always looking to upgrade the product, but we try to
only load new code after the major issues have been resolved.

Would you ask him if they're testing the Navigator software?

Dave,

I haven't retested changing the start and/or stop times since I made the original post until tonight. I just scheduled a "this timeslot" recording all episodes with an earlier start time and a later stop time. When I look at the scheduled recordings page, all the recordings have the earlier start time and later stop times. I will see if they record during those times.They both recorded at the earlier start time and later stop time so you can pad times with a "this timeslot" option.

Cool, thanks for testing that again.

Last night I set up a "first run" on a Sunday show and added a minute to it's end time. We'll see if it holds. Using 1.88.23.1 from Cablevision.

129 Pages on this thread and Now I am totally confused.

I just picked up the sa 8300 DVR from charter today. I have a samsung HDTV with many available HDMI and Components.

I have my network S2 Tivo on Svideo/RCA, my DVD Theater on Component/RCA and the old VCR on RCA.

So I have 1 HDMi and 1 available Compenent Jacks.

The they gave component cables and not a HDMI cable. Should I get one or just hook it up with the component.

What the very first thing I should do once I hook it up?

Use the component cables, then go to the first post of this thread, go to the link for the SA8300 manual and run the setup wizard as instructed on page 3 of the manual, then enjoy.

Hello, I am running SARA 1.87.16.1 via Cox in Arizona.

Just bougt a new plasma and HDMI ports are not getting the signal. The manuacture states set is compatible with .2 HDMI not .1.

Then I called Cox and they advised they send an upgrade but I would need to be off my set for 3 days as the technicians need that open window to send the download.

Talked to several reps today and am not confident at all in what I am being told. Can anyone help, will this "download help." My set is known to perform much better via HDMI so that's my only viable option.

Thanks!

Welcome to the 8300 club! Today I scheduled a manual recording to record channel 300 from 8:10 to 9:00 PM on 09/20. At 8:50 PM I noticed that the record light wasn't on and the manual recording entry was still on scheduled recordings. What a piece of junk!

Sergio

Can someone confirm the following things DON'T work with SA8300HD running SARA 1.87.16.1
(Wide Open West Cable in Cleveland)

- no ESATA
- no Firewire
- no component out when HDMI is plugged in

Thanks.

And generally speaking, can one threaten the cable company to turn the firewire on as required by law, or will they just tell me I need a non-DVR box like SA3250HD to get firewire?

I ran a 300GB drive with 1.87.16.1 for over a year, so that's fine. Never tried Firewire.

Can someone confirm the following things DON'T work with SA8300HD running SARA 1.87.16.1
(Wide Open West Cable in Cleveland)

- no ESATA
- no Firewire
- no component out when HDMI is plugged in

Thanks.

And generally speaking, can one threaten the cable company to turn the firewire on as required by law, or will they just tell me I need a non-DVR box like SA3250HD to get firewire?

RE: your 3 functions:
eSATA DOES work
Don't know about Firewire
Component Out/HDMI: I believe that all versions of SARA work that way (I don't have HDMI, so I can't double check)

RE: Cable: You can always try.

I am running SARA 1.87.16.1 . I just emailed my local cable company, Suddenlink which bought out Cox, and asked when they were planing to upgrade the code for the 8300.

"We have checked with our Engineering Department and they have advised
they do not have an exact time frame just yet for when this will be
released to our customers just yet.

They are currently working on testing the implementation of this
upgrade
to have this to our customers as soon as possible.

We deeply apologize for any inconvenience."

Havent there been a couple of updates since 1.87.16.1? Also, paule123, I dont think you can ever use HDMI and component at the same time on anything, due to the handshaking taking place. i could be wrong about that, but I know you cant on this box.

Last night I set up a "first run" on a Sunday show and added a minute to it's end time. We'll see if it holds. Using 1.88.23.1 from Cablevision.

It didn't hold, once new guide data downloaded it reverted to the scheduled time. So I guess I'm stuck with using time slot and getting the repeats in order to not have the end cut off.

RE: your 3 functions:
eSATA DOES work


I made a homebrew ESATA box with an enclosure from newegg.com and it wasn't detected. Maybe I'll have to buy the "official" Maxtor ESATA unit...


Don't know about Firewire


It says not available in the diag screens, and nothing is detected when plugged into my laptop or into my JVC DVHS deck...


Component Out/HDMI: I believe that all versions of SARA work that way (I don't have HDMI, so I can't double check)


I thought I read that was a feature of the newer 1.88 software, but maybe my bleary eyes are confusing this and the Tivo S3 I've been reading about lately :D

I made a homebrew ESATA box with an enclosure from newegg.com and it wasn't detected. Maybe I'll have to buy the "official" Maxtor ESATA unit...

I think there are some issues with how the eSata is connected. I think you have to have the hard drvie plugged in and on when the box is off and then power the box on. Someone else here might be able to give you some steps to go through before you go out and spend more money.

We periodically lose a recorded show from the recorded list. We think it has something to do with the way that we erase other shows. Is anybody else seeing this?

We also saw that the shows we recorded last night, showed up as scheduled recordings for 9 days out. Normal scheduling is only 7 days. This morning those scheduled shows were gone. (we record all episodes, save all episodes, and the hardfile is less than 50% full)

We have: 1) Done a hard reboot, 2) reformatted and then a hard reboot, 3) got another 8300hd dvr. Still have the problem.

Have called TWC, they don't know about any problem like this.

I made a homebrew ESATA box with an enclosure from newegg.com and it wasn't detected. Maybe I'll have to buy the "official" Maxtor ESATA unit...

Why don't you take this over to the 8300HD External Drive Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8481919#post8481919)

But you likely did not follow the correct rebooting/formatting procedure. See the first page of that thread.

We periodically lose a recorded show from the recorded list. We think it has something to do with the way that we erase other shows. Is anybody else seeing this?

We also saw that the shows we recorded last night, showed up as scheduled recordings for 9 days out. Normal scheduling is only 7 days. This morning those scheduled shows were gone. (we record all episodes, save all episodes, and the hardfile is less than 50% full)

We have: 1) Done a hard reboot, 2) reformatted and then a hard reboot, 3) got another 8300hd dvr. Still have the problem.

Have called TWC, they don't know about any problem like this.

Don't know about those shows scheduled 9 days out.

I had an issue some time ago with some shows being erased when I erased others. I believe that it ended up being a corrupted directory (list) so that when I intended to erase one show, a different one was actually erased. I fixed it then with a hard reboot, deleting the shows that I believed were corrupted - short recordings) and doing another hard reboot.

I also have a friend who recently got a "new" 8300HD and has been having shows "dissappear" on him. Cable, of course, had no explanation.

I've had some isolated cases of short recordings. Others have also posted similar problems here. My local TW has acknowledged the problem and indicated that the fix (from SA) is in Beta testing and they expect to roll it out next month. We are on 1.88.19.100 now. The problem has shown up on earlier versions of SARA as well.

Remy, now I'm confused. I thought it was the "Record all new episodes" option that you could pad and it would remember it throughout the season? You are saying that does not work, and you have to use "all episodes in this time slot"? What about "all episodes at any time"? I guess I could just try it out myself but if someone has already figured out the trick that would make it much easier. Thanks!

We also saw that the shows we recorded last night, showed up as scheduled recordings for 9 days out. Normal scheduling is only 7 days. This morning those scheduled shows were gone.

The 9 days out is how the placeholder works on Sara 1.88.xx.x. When an all epidsode recording for a weekly show starts it sets up a placeholder for 9 days later. When the guide data populates the next morning if the show is on again the following week it will be rescheduled to the correct date. If the show isn't on the next week, or it is not first run if you are using that option, then the placeholder stays at the 9 days out date until it gets matching guide data. It works very well, it just takes a little time to get used to it. I have had a 1.88.xx.x version for 15 months and use first run. This place holder system works great, the show can be off for many months and as soon as the new season starts it schedules the new episodes.

Remy, now I'm confused. I thought it was the "Record all new episodes" option that you could pad and it would remember it throughout the season? You are saying that does not work, and you have to use "all episodes in this time slot"? What about "all episodes at any time"? I guess I could just try it out myself but if someone has already figured out the trick that would make it much easier. Thanks!

Not sure if it works for "any time," on my version 1.88.23.1 it doesn't work for "first run" but apparently it works for "time slot."

Not sure if it works for "any time," on my version 1.88.23.1 it doesn't work for "first run" but apparently it works for "time slot."

With my old version, 1.87.21, it works with both "first run" and "time slot" but NOT ALWAYS. The guy who programmed the SARA was certainly smoking some good stuff. With programs like Vanish on Fox , for example , I have it 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after and it works like a charm. With programs like Nip and Tuck, that sometimes start at 10:00 and sometimes at 10:05 and have another Nip/Tuck (repeat) following , the software goes banana and sometimes doesn't record anything and sometimes records half the show. One thing I know for sure: If you program a "season pass" and the show is delayed , the software will adjust the time but will probably mess it up if you pad. I never have problems recording one specific episode but using the "season pass" I have all sort of results, from not recording at all to recording part of the program. With shows on ABC , for example, this is a real PITA.

Sergio

I want a TIVO!!

Not sure if it works for "any time," on my version 1.88.23.1 it doesn't work for "first run" but apparently it works for "time slot."Did you pad it when you set up the season pass or after it was already set up?

When I set it up. I deleted the current scheduled one and set it up again adding a minute to the end time. When the guide data populated the next day it reset it to the scheduled time.

Thanks. I got one set up and will see tomorrow if my experience is any different with 1.88.22.1 and 1.88.19.1.

It could be one of those things that work in one of the 1.88 versions and not another. We had no HDMI issues with our last version but they have reappeared in the current one.

Yeah, and then each cableco is slightly different. :(

Would you ask him if they're testing the Navigator software?

I got the 1.88.x s/w pushed Wed afternoon....unfortunately I've been on travel for work and haven't had much chance to try it...haven't even checked which version # it is, but I have the "view from beginning" and "4 arrow FF" choices now.

As far as Navigator...when asked if my TWC division was beta testing it, I received this reply: "We are a beta site for SA's DVR software...As far as navigator goes, we really don't have a firm date, but it will be sometime next year."

fhall1, thanks for asking. Sounds like it could be a while before anyone sees it besides Nebraska.

It could be one of those things that work in one of the 1.88 versions and not another. We had no HDMI issues with our last version but they have reappeared in the current one.That may very well be.

I forgot I had already set up 2 padded recordings (All Episodes, all times) earlier for Star Trek:TOS each weekend; one for Sat from 8:59-10:00 pm and the other for Sun from 2:59-4:00 pm.

I also set one up last night (All Episodes, first-run) for a program from 4:59-6:05 pm every weekday.

All are still in the list with the padded times this morning (ST:TOS has been there all week - our updates take place at 3:00 am). I'll find out at 5:00 tonight if the one I set up last night records correctly and then keeps the padding.

I forgot to set up the other one (All Episodes, timeslot), but I just did for SG1 from 11:00 pm-12:02 am and it shows the padded time. I'll check in the morning and see if it resets after recording tonight.

This is all with the 1.88.22.1 version, I forgot to set anything up with the 1.88.19.1 version, but will today.

This mirrors RussB's experience with the 1.88.22.1 version.

Hi everyone,

I hope I'm not the only one who has experienced this, but last night I was watching TV and started seeing intermittent flashing on the screen. What I mean by this is that the picture would go black and "flash" out for about 1/2 a second. The frequency of this seemed to increase throughout the night.

I experienced this while watching a pre-recorded show and while two other HD shows were recording. Could this be the 8300HD have a hard time processing all of this? Has anyone else experienced this?

By the way, I did switch to "live" TV later and changed channels, just to make sure it wasn't a specific channel, but experienced the same thing. During this time the 8300 was still recording two HD shows.

I have the 8300HD from Time Warner Cable and have it connected through HDMI. I'm hoping it's not the TV, I just bought it a month ago.

Please help!

James

First thing is to try rebooting the box ... ie, unplug it and plug it back it. I had a few times where the MPEG encoders / decoders flaked out and rebooting would usually fix the issue.

Hi everyone,

I hope I'm not the only one who has experienced this, but last night I was watching TV and started seeing intermittent flashing on the screen. What I mean by this is that the picture would go black and "flash" out for about 1/2 a second. The frequency of this seemed to increase throughout the night.

I experienced this while watching a pre-recorded show and while two other HD shows were recording. Could this be the 8300HD have a hard time processing all of this? Has anyone else experienced this?

By the way, I did switch to "live" TV later and changed channels, just to make sure it wasn't a specific channel, but experienced the same thing. During this time the 8300 was still recording two HD shows.

I have the 8300HD from Time Warner Cable and have it connected through HDMI. I'm hoping it's not the TV, I just bought it a month ago.

Please help!

James

I've had the exact same issue. I think it's caused by the HDMI handshake. You can try the following:

1. Turn to a nonHD channel and it will fix the problem (channel 0 works well).
2. Unplug and replug the HDMI cable.
3. Turn off the TV and cable box. Turn on the cable box, then the TV.
4. Reboot the box.

I hope this helps.

Hi everyone,

I hope I'm not the only one who has experienced this, but last night I was watching TV and started seeing intermittent flashing on the screen. What I mean by this is that the picture would go black and "flash" out for about 1/2 a second. The frequency of this seemed to increase throughout the night.

I experienced this while watching a pre-recorded show and while two other HD shows were recording. Could this be the 8300HD have a hard time processing all of this? Has anyone else experienced this?

By the way, I did switch to "live" TV later and changed channels, just to make sure it wasn't a specific channel, but experienced the same thing. During this time the 8300 was still recording two HD shows.

I have the 8300HD from Time Warner Cable and have it connected through HDMI. I'm hoping it's not the TV, I just bought it a month ago.

Please help!

James

I've done this with a similar situation- I also have the 8300HD from Time Warner Cable and have had 2 programs recording and watching one from my list....never a problem!!

Did you see if it would repeat while nothing was recording?

Hi everyone,

I hope I'm not the only one who has experienced this, but last night I was watching TV and started seeing intermittent flashing on the screen. What I mean by this is that the picture would go black and "flash" out for about 1/2 a second. The frequency of this seemed to increase throughout the night.

I experienced this while watching a pre-recorded show and while two other HD shows were recording. Could this be the 8300HD have a hard time processing all of this? Has anyone else experienced this?

By the way, I did switch to "live" TV later and changed channels, just to make sure it wasn't a specific channel, but experienced the same thing. During this time the 8300 was still recording two HD shows.

I have the 8300HD from Time Warner Cable and have it connected through HDMI. I'm hoping it's not the TV, I just bought it a month ago.

Please help!

James

I've had the exact same thing happen to me. ccsoftball's advice is perfect.

I find that, usually, switching back to a 480i analog channel, then back to my HD channel, fixes it. Don't be too quick to switch... give it a couple of seconds to settle down.

Is there anyway have your software updated other than by the Cable Company? My Cable supplier (Wide Open West) is giving me the run around on updating the software to 1.88 from 1.87...

As a person coming from a Tivo to the 8300HD solely for the purpose of HDTV I've been sorely disappointed by this unit so far...It makes even the outrageous Series3 Tivo price seem bearable... =(

Is there anyway have your software updated other than by the Cable Company? My Cable supplier (Wide Open West) is giving me the run around on updating the software to 1.88 from 1.87...

As a person coming from a Tivo to the 8300HD solely for the purpose of HDTV I've been sorely disappointed by this unit so far...It makes even the outrageous Series3 Tivo price seem bearable... =(

No! :(

That may very well be.

I forgot I had already set up 2 padded recordings (All Episodes, all times) earlier for Star Trek:TOS each weekend; one for Sat from 8:59-10:00 pm and the other for Sun from 2:59-4:00 pm.

I also set one up last night (All Episodes, first-run) for a program from 4:59-6:05 pm every weekday.

All are still in the list with the padded times this morning (ST:TOS has been there all week - our updates take place at 3:00 am). I'll find out at 5:00 tonight if the one I set up last night records correctly and then keeps the padding.

I forgot to set up the other one (All Episodes, timeslot), but I just did for SG1 from 11:00 pm-12:02 am and it shows the padded time. I'll check in the morning and see if it resets after recording tonight.

This is all with the 1.88.22.1 version, I forgot to set anything up with the 1.88.19.1 version, but will today.

This mirrors RussB's experience with the 1.88.22.1 version.I retested padding the times using the first run option on a daily Monday through Friday program and it worked. I looked at the list of scheduled programs and all episodes of that program still had the times padded, even the new day of listings that were downloaded.

I am going to test padding the time of a weekly show and see what happens. I should be able to see if the times are padded tomorrow after the new guide data is downloaded. I am not sure why RemyM is seeing different results. I think people should try it if they think it will help them and see what happens.

Remember, he's using 1.88.23.1 on Cablevision and there might be something broken in it, he also mentioned new/returning HDMI problems.

RussB,

I couldn't find my original post (admittedly I didn't look too hard), but as you might remember I set up a 3-way conflict for this coming Tuesday night. I had "NCIS" and "House" season passes already set up to record ("First run only on this channel") here from 7:00-8:00 pm.

Last week, using TitanTV, I found that reruns of "That 70's Show" were not on last Tuesday, but would be on this Tuesday from 7:00-7:30 pm. So, I added that to my schedule ("On this channel at any time"). There was no 3-way conflict then because it was not yet in the IPG for that specific timeslot.

Anyway, while adding some more season passes this morning, I happened to check my schedule. Lo and behold, that single episode is not in the Scheduled Recording List nor is it highlighted in the IPG. All other episodes have been recording since last weekend. The episodes that are on just before that one are in the list, and are highlighted, as are subsequent episodes.

So, it looks to me like 1.88.22.1 has some sort of undocumented scheme to avoid accidental 3-way conflicts. I don't know what the scheme is, but in this case it looks like "New" episodes are being recorded in difference to "reruns". I'll find out Tuesday night for sure if NCIS and House actually record, but I see no reason at this point why they shouldn't.

I retested padding the times using the first run option on a daily Monday through Friday program and it worked. I looked at the list of scheduled programs and all episodes of that program still had the times padded, even the new day of listings that were downloaded.

I am going to test padding the time of a weekly show and see what happens. I should be able to see if the times are padded tomorrow after the new guide data is downloaded. I am not sure why RemyM is seeing different results. I think people should try it if they think it will help them and see what happens.For a weekly show, the time padding did not work. Only the first episode had the time padding. I think the problem is with the use of placeholders instead of the first run option. When I looked at the placeholder, it had the time from the guide instead of the padded time. When the placeholder was converted to the scheduled recording entry with the correct date, the time padding was still gone.

JUst curious I may need to read in to the thread further but why is no one using the HDMI output on the 8300 . Cables can be had reasonable on the web .. and i don't mean 125.00 Monster cable either .. Settings are the same settings twice scroll to pic size and select stretch.. I saw a post warlier with a panny so that would definitley be a hdmi to hdmi connection .Digital Audio and Digital video in 1 cable love it ..

I'm specifically not using the HDMI cable because it blacks out the video/sounds periodically between my 55A2000 and the 8300.

Anyone have a work around for this? (I'm new to all the HD stuff, so maybe thereis something basic I am missing).

Russ,

Can you give more specifics; what program, what option did you use, how much padding, etc.? I've got "48 Hour Mystery" set up for tonight, First run option padded with 3 minutes. I've also padded tomorrow's "Brothers and Sisters", again First run option for 2 minutes.

Russ,

Can you give more specifics; what program, what option did you use, how much padding, etc.? I've got "48 Hour Mystery" set up for tonight, First run option padded with 3 minutes. I've also padded tomorrow's "Brothers and Sisters", again First run option for 2 minutes.I used the First run option on Law and Order for last night and started it 5 minutes early and ended it 10 minutes after the end time (8:55 PM CT to 10:10 PM CT). The first episode recorded between these times. I looked at the Scheduled Recordings after midnight and saw the placeholder was for Sunday, October 1 and the times were 9:00 PM CT and 10:00 PM CT. In the morning, I looked at the Scheduled Recordings again and saw the placeholder was changed to a scheduled recording entry for Law and Order for Friday, September 29 and the times were 9:00 PM CT and 10:00 PM CT. Also, I recorded Numbers with padded times (10 minutes early and 5 minutes late) and the first episode recorded between these times and it reverted back to the time in the guide similar to what Law and Order did.

I will try experimenting with recording weekly shows using time slot and any time options.

RussB,

Thanks, guess I'll see the same thing then later tonight. Maybe that's what I was referring to the first time. At any rate, I set up a padded recording for Desert SPeaks on PBS at 5:30 tonight. I'll see what it and the others look like in the morning.

FWIW, I think your assessment is correct. Daily recordings don't get a place-holder, so they don't revert.

RemyM,

I trust you are reading these posts. It looks like our initial tests only included programs that didn't get a place-holder set.

EDIT: I just noticed that Desert Speaks is on again tomorrow night, so it'll be after that before I see the results of my test. This one also may not get a place-holder because the following Saturday will be in the IPG before Sunday's recording takes place. The other one should get a holder though, so my test should show if the holder is the culprit. If it is, I'll pass this to my contact. :(

Double DAZ,

DoubleDAZ, It is a wonderful set of hints and tips. I have a problem with SA 8300HD, and would like to ask you to help. While transferring the prerecorded program to a DVD recorder, the SA 8300HD sometimes go into power saving mode and cuts off the DVR. All of the timers are disabled in the advanced setup page, Time Warner does not seem to know how to solve the problem, except to tell me to reboot. That did not help.

nmrtexas,

Sorry, but I am not familiar with a power saving mode on the 8300, at least not using SARA software. My 8300 is on from 5:30 am until after 9:30 pm every day and it has never gone into any kind of power saving mode. There is an auto-shutoff feature set for early in the AM, around 1:30, where the 8300 does turn off if you aren't there to press a key, but I doubt that is what you are talking about. FWIW, there are bugs with that feature depending on what software version you are using. Of course, I always try what I refer to as the "hard" reboot (holding the Power button while plugging the power cord back in) to see if that helps. If it still shuts off, it could be some kind of overheating problem and the box needs to be replaced. Maybe someone else can offer a suggestion.

...
I will try experimenting with recording weekly shows using time slot and any time options.Whenever a placeholder is created (the program is only shown once a week and the guide does not have another program entry on the same channel), the time padding information is not maintained. The first episode is recorded with the times padded, but after that the subsequent episodes do not have the times padded. It doesn't matter which recording option is used (First Run, time slot, or any time) if a placeholder is created the time padding information is not maintained. If a placeholder is not created (the program is shown again within 7 days and the guide has another program entry), the time padding information is maintained.

I can forget my other tests, I just verified all that, you are correct my friend. I will put together some examples of what works and what doesn't to email my contact and see if he can pass the info to SA.

BTW, did you see my note about the 3-way conflict test? Have you tried testing that too?

DoubleDAZ, It is a wonderful set of hints and tips. I have a problem with SA 8300HD, and would like to ask you to help. While transferring the prerecorded program to a DVD recorder, the SA 8300HD sometimes go into power saving mode and cuts off the DVR. All of the timers are disabled in the advanced setup page, Time Warner does not seem to know how to solve the problem, except to tell me to reboot. That did not help.If you provide more information such as the SARA version number, your location, the time it happened, and anything else that was going on, maybe someone can help you.

I wonder if the power saving mode is different than the autoshutdown mode. When, I got 1.88.22.1, I noticed that around 1:10 or 1:15 AM, the 8300 would display a message to press a key or it would power down the hard drive within about 5 minutes. If a key is not pressed within the 5 minutes, the hard drive is powered down but the box is still on and the power indicator light is still on. Also, a floating TWC logo is displayed saying to press a key to power up the drive (I don't remember the exact wording). If you don't wait long enough before pressing another key, another message is displayed saying the hard drive is powering up.

Well, the release notes for 1.88.19.1 included a change to the auto-shutoff function to include spinning down SATA drives along with the internal drive (or something to that effect). If he is doing his archiving sometimes at 1:00-1:30 am, that is the only thing I can see that would look like a power-saving mode. The message was always displayed, but in some versions pressing a key did not work and the unit powered off and I believe folks had to wait several minutes before they could turn it back on. I also believe the feature could be disabled by the cableco and some did just that. I'm not sure what SA thought turning the drive off for 10 minutes every night would really do anyway. :)

I can forget my other tests, I just verified all that, you are correct my friend. I will put together some examples of what works and what doesn't to email my contact and see if he can pass the info to SA.

BTW, did you see my note about the 3-way conflict test? Have you tried testing that too?Thanks for retesting.

Yes, I saw your note about the 3-way conflict test, but I haven't tried testing it yet. I will look at testing that. I wanted to understand what was going on with padding the times. Too bad, padding the times will not work for weekly programs.

RussB,

I couldn't find my original post (admittedly I didn't look too hard), but as you might remember I set up a 3-way conflict for this coming Tuesday night. I had "NCIS" and "House" season passes already set up to record ("First run only on this channel") here from 7:00-8:00 pm.

Last week, using TitanTV, I found that reruns of "That 70's Show" were not on last Tuesday, but would be on this Tuesday from 7:00-7:30 pm. So, I added that to my schedule ("On this channel at any time"). There was no 3-way conflict then because it was not yet in the IPG for that specific timeslot.

Anyway, while adding some more season passes this morning, I happened to check my schedule. Lo and behold, that single episode is not in the Scheduled Recording List nor is it highlighted in the IPG. All other episodes have been recording since last weekend. The episodes that are on just before that one are in the list, and are highlighted, as are subsequent episodes.

So, it looks to me like 1.88.22.1 has some sort of undocumented scheme to avoid accidental 3-way conflicts. I don't know what the scheme is, but in this case it looks like "New" episodes are being recorded in difference to "reruns". I'll find out Tuesday night for sure if NCIS and House actually record, but I see no reason at this point why they shouldn't.I tried to duplicate this, but reruns of "That 70's Show" are not on here at that time. It is on before and after that time but not during. If you find any other 3-way conflicts like that let me know and I will try to test it. I used the SARA search feature and found out that if I search by title first then I can change the date and I am close to the place where I should be for the search, on the same letter at least.

RemyM,

I trust you are reading these posts. It looks like our initial tests only included programs that didn't get a place-holder set.


My experience has been the same. I have modified the recording time (moved up the end time) for Nightly Business Report on PBS that airs each weeknight and that has held. I have never been able to get an all episode recording that airs weekly to hold any time edits.

I tried to duplicate this, but reruns of "That 70's Show" are not on here at that time. It is on before and after that time but not during. If you find any other 3-way conflicts like that let me know and I will try to test it. I used the SARA search feature and found out that if I search by title first then I can change the date and I am close to the place where I should be for the search, on the same letter at least.The problem is that our time zones are different, so what works for me may not work for you. PBS is a good channel to look at though on TitanTV for potential conflicts from one week to another.

For example, I noticed that "Great Performances" on PBS is not on here at 9:00-10:00 pm this Monday night, but is on the following Monday night at that time. I also have CSI:Miami and Studio 60 scheduled to record then. It is also on other days throughout the week before and after Monday. I found an episode on Thursday at 3:00 pm that didn't cause another conflict, so I scheduled a recording for "On this channel at any time" and that should cause a conflict next Monday night. Based on my other test, I don't expect it will, but I'll make sure the other episodes get scheduled that week.

One thing I noticed while doing all this is that the scheduled recordings got set only for those episodes AFTER the one used for scheduling. There are several episodes on before Thursday, but those did not get flagged for recording even though I chose the "any time" option.

The problem is that our time zones are different, so what works for me may not work for you. PBS is a good channel to look at though on TitanTV for potential conflicts from one week to another.

For example, I noticed that "Great Performances" on PBS is not on here at 9:00-10:00 pm this Monday night, but is on the following Monday night at that time. I also have CSI:Miami and Studio 60 scheduled to record then. It is also on other days throughout the week before and after Monday. I found an episode on Thursday at 3:00 pm that didn't cause another conflict, so I scheduled a recording for "On this channel at any time" and that should cause a conflict next Monday night. Based on my other test, I don't expect it will, but I'll make sure the other episodes get scheduled that week.

One thing I noticed while doing all this is that the scheduled recordings got set only for those episodes AFTER the one used for scheduling. There are several episodes on before Thursday, but those did not get flagged for recording even though I chose the "any time" option.I set up the same recordings "Great Performances" (On this channel at any time), "CSI: Miami" (First Run only on this channel)", and "Studio 60" (First Run only on this channel). LOL, I record too many shows so I had some other conflicts on Tuesday night so I had to change the conflicting recordings. "Eureka" and "Smith" conflicted with "Great Performances" on Tuesday night so I recorded "Eureka" later and recorded "Smith" on the other DVR.

Even though the time zones are different, the programs come on at the same time 9:00 PM. Central Time gets the East Coast Feeds, but it is an hour earlier here. News at 11 PM ET, but here News is at 10 PM CT.

I think SARA has never set recordings for episodes BEFORE the episode that you use for scheduling. I noticed that before I got SARA version 1.88.22.1.

I think SARA has never set recordings for episodes BEFORE the episode that you use for scheduling. I noticed that before I got SARA version 1.88.22.1.I guess I just never used a later recording, so I never noticed. Depending on what you are doing, like this, that can be a handy "feature". :)

Don't know about those shows scheduled 9 days out.

I had an issue some time ago with some shows being erased when I erased others. I believe that it ended up being a corrupted directory (list) so that when I intended to erase one show, a different one was actually erased. I fixed it then with a hard reboot, deleting the shows that I believed were corrupted - short recordings) and doing another hard reboot.

I also have a friend who recently got a "new" 8300HD and has been having shows "dissappear" on him. Cable, of course, had no explanation.

I've had some isolated cases of short recordings. Others have also posted similar problems here. My local TW has acknowledged the problem and indicated that the fix (from SA) is in Beta testing and they expect to roll it out next month. We are on 1.88.19.100 now. The problem has shown up on earlier versions of SARA as well.

I've recently experienced a similiar problem. As far as I know, it wasn't when I was erasing, but watching a recorded show.

If I stop a recorded show, go to live TV, and come back, select another show to watch, the in-progress screen comes up for the 1st show I was watching even though I've selected a different show. The only way I can figure out how to watch the second show is to go to a few other recorded shows and when the start from beginning, erase screen comes up, start playing , stop, then go to the show I was orignally trying to watch, and hope when I press the select button, it displays the play from beginning, erase for the that show.

Anyone else experienced this?

(did that make *any* sense at all?)

Steve

I've had the exact same issue. I think it's caused by the HDMI handshake. You can try the following:

1. Turn to a nonHD channel and it will fix the problem (channel 0 works well).
2. Unplug and replug the HDMI cable.
3. Turn off the TV and cable box. Turn on the cable box, then the TV.
4. Reboot the box.

I hope this helps.
Thanks for the advice. I tried the suggestions and it worked perfectly. My biggest worry was that it was the TV, bu luckily, it turned out to be the cable box.

Thanks again!

James

I've recently experienced a similiar problem. As far as I know, it wasn't when I was erasing, but watching a recorded show.

If I stop a recorded show, go to live TV, and come back, select another show to watch, the in-progress screen comes up for the 1st show I was watching even though I've selected a different show. The only way I can figure out how to watch the second show is to go to a few other recorded shows and when the start from beginning, erase screen comes up, start playing , stop, then go to the show I was orignally trying to watch, and hope when I press the select button, it displays the play from beginning, erase for the that show.

Anyone else experienced this?

(did that make *any* sense at all?)

SteveWhen strange things like this happen, you should reboot the DVR. If that doesn't solve the problem, try a hard reboot of the DVR. Both reboot methods are described in the first post of this thread.

I read the thread, but it doesn't mention if 1.88.x.x fixes the HDMI pass through problem such that I can use my A/V receiver for switching. Can others confirm if the HDMI pass-thru problem is fixed with 1.88?

I'm still running 1.87.x.x, and I can't get Charter to get me an upgrade (or even get in touch with anyone who even understands the issues). This is MA.

-- Todd

The pros outweigh the cons. I would suggest you get it.

I got the 1.88.22.1 update near the end of July and I have Houston TWC. The problems that he mentioned rarely occur. The DVR still reboots but this seldom happens. I haven't seen any zero length programs. The kick out to live bug has an easy work around, which is just use the "Play from Beginning" option that he describes. The ability to watch a program while it is still being recorded without being kicked out to live and the faster fourth forward and reverse speed make getting 1.88.22.1 worth it to me. I haven't seen a post from anyone who has 1.88.x.x who wants to go back to a pre 1.88.x.x version. [xxxx is the next to last section in the post.

I'm on Time Warner in Amherst, NY and I think I have 1.88.19.1

I have a problem with the fast forward function on recorded programs. Occasionally I press the FF button once and it jumps right to 3 or 4X FF!!!!! (My dughter says I just can't press the button correctly.)

I've paid a lot of attention trying to reproduce this and it only happens ocassionally!

It definitely seems to happen when a recording (IE: the news) is approx. 12 minutes into the broadcast and I go to fast forward past the commercials!

It might happen as regularly at some other time, but not that I've established.

(I've tried to push the button lightly....still happens. In fact, when it's actually performing properly, I've held the FF button down and it still only goes to 1X FF!!!)

Is this a known bug, just my 8300, or what???

How are you coming out of FF? If you come out of FF by pressing the replay button the next time you press FF it will go to the next fastest speed. If you come out of FF by pressing play the next time you press FF it should be at the first speed.

How are you coming out of FF? If you come out of FF by pressing the replay button the next time you press FF it will go to the next fastest speed. If you come out of FF by pressing play the next time you press FF it should be at the first speed.

I typically come out of FF using the button which has the arrow on the circle designed to automatically back-up 8 seconds (?) before it starts playing again. (Not sure what it's called.)

Is that Replay? Is that the problem?

That's the replay button, and that's the problem. Hit the play button before you hit the replay button and you won't have the issue again.

Guys, if you already have this link somewhere, my apologies. I found this interesting to explain the lingo on the diagnostic pages :

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/sciatl/3.1%20Using%20diagnostic%20screens

Cheers!

Sergio

After having the 8300HD for about 6 weeks I think I can conclude that it is not quite a "bullet-proof" device (every should be laughing now).

I've run into one problem that hasn't gone away by rebooting the stupid thing. It looks like its lost some disk space. On the 160 gig drive it shows 36% used with only 2 hours of HD material stored on it. If I record another 2.5 hours, it goes up by 10% (which is what I would expect) and when I delete the 2.5 hours it goes back down the appropriate amount. However, it appears that about 25% is being listed as used that really isn't.

Does anyone know of a way of fixing that, preferably without losing the stuff recorded on it? I suspect a reformat will do the trick, but that will lose what's been saved.

I'm running version 1.88.xx (it the version with 4 fast forward settings) and don't have any external items attached to it.

Cablevision, in its infinite intelligence, doesn't know what to do other than to send a technician out to look at it. I told them to wait on that since their only solution will probably be to replace it.

It's bad enough that it only stores about 25 hours of high-def stuff, but losing 1/4 of it is really annoying.

Thanks

If a recording is scheduled for the middle of the night with the box "off", will the program also be streamed out simultaneously through the AV jacks with the box being "off" so as to allow the scheduled program to be recorded on dvd recorder at the same time?. Or will I have to manually remember to leave the 8300 on and on the proper channel that I want recorded to the other equipment? I didnt see any kind of feature that would allow advanced scheduling where the 8300 can be programmed to turn itself on on a particular day in advance at a particular time and channel. I saw the "wake up" feature,but thats different from what I have been able to figure out.

I read the thread, but it doesn't mention if 1.88.x.x fixes the HDMI pass through problem such that I can use my A/V receiver for switching. Can others confirm if the HDMI pass-thru problem is fixed with 1.88?

I'm still running 1.87.x.x, and I can't get Charter to get me an upgrade (or even get in touch with anyone who even understands the issues). This is MA.

-- Todd

I sent an email to Charter tech support last week and received a reply stating they had no plans to upgrade the SARA version. My 8300HD has 1.87.32.1 right now.

Guys, if you already have this link somewhere, my apologies. I found this interesting to explain the lingo on the diagnostic pages :

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/sciatl/3.1%20Using%20diagnostic%20screens

Cheers!

SergioCool, I'll add it to the first post and hope it doesn't get changed. If it does, let me know and I'll update the first post.

EDIT: Link added.

RussB/RemyM,

Here's something for you to test. Set the Viewer: Power On to Last Channel or an HD channel. Then tune to an HD channel and power off. When you power back on, it should be in 480i mode. Change to another HD channel and it stays in 480i mode. Tune to an SD channel and then back to an HD channel and it should reformat to HD. Change the Power On setting to an SD channel and it will power on in480i mode, but will go to HD as soon as you tune an HD channel.

DoubleDAZ,

I have always had my box set to power on to last channel. 95% of the time it's a HD channel. I am hooked up via HDMI and never had a resolution issue with any of the previous 1.88 versions I had until I got 1.88.23.1. Granted I was not using HDMI on the first couple of 1.88 version that we had. If I start on a SD channel there is no problem when I switch to a HD channel. If I start on a HD channel 75% of the time it comes up 480i and the rest of the time it comes up fine. The problem stays when going to another HD channel, switching to a SD and back to a HD does correct the problem. I have come up with a better fix though. I just press the # key 4 times to go through the stretch and zoom functions and when it gets back to normal it's fixed.

Thanks, RemyM. I use Component and it failed each of the 3-4 times I tested it using SARA 22. I didn't go in the bedroom to test SARA 19, but there isn't an HDTV in there anyway. :) We always watch our local news in the morning (SD), so I have that set as the Power On channel and didn't notice this until I saw something posted over on HDTVoice. I noticed this when I first got SARA 22 on a new box, but I didn't think anything of it after I set the Power On channel and it didn't happen again.

DoubleDAZ,

I have always had my box set to power on to last channel. 95% of the time it's a HD channel. I am hooked up via HDMI and never had a resolution issue with any of the previous 1.88 versions I had until I got 1.88.23.1. Granted I was not using HDMI on the first couple of 1.88 version that we had. If I start on a SD channel there is no problem when I switch to a HD channel. If I start on a HD channel 75% of the time it comes up 480i and the rest of the time it comes up fine. The problem stays when going to another HD channel, switching to a SD and back to a HD does correct the problem. I have come up with a better fix though. I just press the # key 4 times to go through the stretch and zoom functions and when it gets back to normal it's fixed.
RemyM,

The same thing started happening to me last night. I have used HDMI with my 8300HD, on Cablevision, since I got my TV (about 2 months ago) with no problems. I was on SARA 1.88?? when I first started, but I haven't checked the version since. Last night I switched on an HD channel and got 480i, tried changing to zoom and back and got 1080i (maybe Cablevision upgraded me overnight). Then I switched to another HD channel and it happened again.

Now that I see that I'm not alone, I guess I will have to live with it until SA decides to fix the problem.

ddlar,

I informed Cablevision's Senior Advisor of Engineering, Wilt Hildenbrand of the problem in 1.88.23.1 right after we got the software update about 6 weeks ago, you should have gotten it then too. They are looking into it because it wasn't happening in our last version 1.88.15.2. Unfortunately this has been a common problem with the SARA software, they fix one thing and break something else.

Wish anyone from Nebraska who has Digital Navigator would post and let us know how they feel about it.

RussB/RemyM,

Here's something for you to test. Set the Viewer: Power On to Last Channel or an HD channel. Then tune to an HD channel and power off. When you power back on, it should be in 480i mode. Change to another HD channel and it stays in 480i mode. Tune to an SD channel and then back to an HD channel and it should reformat to HD. Change the Power On setting to an SD channel and it will power on in480i mode, but will go to HD as soon as you tune an HD channel.I think this is the known problem in 1.88.22.1 before it was released in Houston that TerryB posted about, click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7927550&&#post7927550) to go to it.

Wish anyone from Nebraska who has Digital Navigator would post and let us know how they feel about it.Wrong thread, Crazy!

This there any later news on when COX will upgrade to 1.88 in the Phoenix area. I think back in July there were posts here that it was coming soon. I am in Tempe and my 8300HD is still on 1.87.16.1.

Thanks,

Don

AFAIK, they are not going to release 1.88.19.1 or 1.88.22.1 Phoenix-wide due to ongoing problems that affect some users and not others. I believe a new release is available and once it's tested we'll know more about upgrade plans. If you have been following the Phoenix thread, there are instructions there on how to get 1.88.x.x on an individual basis, check the first post in that thread.

I can't find the thread to which you refer. Would you please provide a link?

Thanks,

Don

Sorry, I found it. I hadn't been to that forum before. The instructions are what I remember from before. I decided then to just wait and may do so again.

Thanks,

Don

Ok, Don, but it's really no problem getting the update unless you are concerned some of the problems will adversely affect your setup. I'm hopeful there will be a system-wide update soon, but that all depends on the testing. Other than the one possible SATA problem, no one has complained about the release. I'll keep everyone in that thread posted on any progress for new software, so you might want to review it once in a while.

well, I just missed the last 30 seconds of Grey's anatomy, because my SA8300 CUT IT OFF!

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell the stupid thing to record a minute past the end of the hour??
DAMN this is frustrating.

firmware: SARA 1.87.16.a11

Sheesh, get a grip. :)

If the IPG said the program ended at a given time and your local station aired it slightly off that time, how is a piece of hardware supposed to know that?

If, however, the recording stopped before the IPG end time, that is something else and quite possibly a bug in your version of software, but that all might depend on what recording option you used in the first place (First run, This timeslot, Anytime).

At any rate, there are 3 ways you can extend the recording time:

1. Set up a manual recording for the times you want. This has the advantage of retaining the times from week to week, but the Title will not be displayed in the Recorded List.

2. Edit the times when you schedule the recording. This will only work for the episode currently in the IPG and the times will not be retained from week to week.

3. Edit the times after you schedule the recording by selecting the program from the Scheduled Recordings List. This will also only work for the episode currently in the IPG and the times will not be retained, but you can edit them each week that you want the recording times extended.

I should mention that if you are recording 2 programs after Grey's, none of these will work unless you first delay the start time for one of the other 2 programs to avoid a 3-way conflict.

Thanks.

I am feeling kinda silly now.
It seems prety easy to just edit the time (to add a minute at the end) when setting the recording :p

another quick question:

while I was trying to figure out the firmware version, I pressed a bunch of buttons trying to toggle off of the initial diagnostic menu screen (the first page)
and some of the numbers on the clock and memry areas changed when I pressed up or down chanels...
is it possible to set things on that first screen labeled "status summary"?

I didn't think you could set the clock - I thought it got that from teh cable feed..?
is it possible I have changed my clock setting?

Schteevie,

Use the Page up and down buttons to page through the diagnostic menu screens. I doubt you can change the clock. Is it still accurate?

There may be circumstances when it is easier to just record the following show(s) instead of extending the times every week. An example would be shows following live sporting events (like Sunday afternoon football that delays the Sunday primetime shows). One of the problems with this is that the show you are interested in could be on more than one recording.

well, I just missed the last 30 seconds of Grey's anatomy, because my SA8300 CUT IT OFF!

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell the stupid thing to record a minute past the end of the hour??
DAMN this is frustrating.

firmware: SARA 1.87.16.a11

Mine did the same thing. Boy were we pissed. Fortunately the same show was on Friday night and we got to watch it. The guy coming out of the bathroom, was her ex-boyfriend who broke up her marriage.

Mine did the same thing. Boy were we pissed. Fortunately the same show was on Friday night and we got to watch it. The guy coming out of the bathroom, was her ex-boyfriend who broke up her marriage.
Same thing here in Maine. Obviously a network timing issue. And we missed the rebroadcast, too, but went to abc.com to watch the last 30 secs.

Don't blame the DVR. The networks are purposely running some shows past their scheduled end time to screw up your recordings. They want you to watch the shows live so you can't skip the commercials.

There have always been problems with actual broadcast times, though it seemed more confined to the beginning and not the end until recently. How many programs do you tune to at any given hour only to find that you've already missed the first 30 seconds or so? Grey's and some others seem to be the worst though, even though they change the IPG time by a minute or two to reflect longer episode times. The problem is the IPG works in one minute increments and can't compensate for 1.5 minutes. I've almost always ended up with the credits for Grey's at the beginning of the recording for the next program. :(

Same thing here in Maine. Obviously a network timing issue. And we missed the rebroadcast, too, but went to abc.com to watch the last 30 secs.

ABC.com is limiting those streaming full episodes to American's only.
That is annoying.

Anyway - thanks for the help all, I now have a work around.

:cool:

I finally swapped my SA8000HD for a SA8300HD. Primary reason was to gain ability to archive DVR content out to Mits DVCR via firewire. The Firewire ports, (aka IEEE 1394 ports for you search engines and COMCAST CSR's), were never active on the old SA8000HD.

Despite my local Comcast CSR's insistence to the contrary, the SA8300HD I picked up DOES have active Firewire ports. It was manufactured in Aug 2006. The key software revs for my new SA8300 are: SARA 1.88.22.1, firebus 1.9.12.1, and fbdtcp 1.3.4.1 (I'm in South/Central NJ).

Unfortunately, although the firewire ports are active, my first attempt at archiving via firewire produced a recording that played back with lots of video freezes. The DVCR I used for recording was a Mits 2000u, directly connected to the SA8300HD. This unit has worked fine connected to a SA320HD in another room. I did not use the same fw cable but I will on a subsequent trial just to be sure.

Is anyone having success archiving out of the SA8300HD via firewire with firebus 1.9.12.1?

Also, The AUX inputs on the front of my 8300 are active, but I needed to use a universal remote to flip to AUX input. Pressing the "Input, TV/VCR" button on the Comcast supplied remote (in "Cable" mode of course) did nothing. Unfortunately, I was hoping to record some camcorder footage to the 8300's disk for quick access, but when I pressed "Rec" to make the recording the 8300 refused to record, and displayed the words "Aux Input."

Anybody able to use the Aux input to record non-cable programming to the 8300?

--hourglass

ABC.com is limiting those streaming full episodes to American's only.How are they doing that? Do they have a list of authorized ISPs or something?

BTW, thanks to whomever for reminding me that some of this is available online. I missed both broadcasts and just finished watching it online.

Anybody able to use the Aux input to record non-cable programming to the 8300?I could be wrong, but I thought they were just a pass through to enble camcorder, etc., viewing, not recording.

Same thing here in Maine. Obviously a network timing issue. And we missed the rebroadcast, too, but went to abc.com to watch the last 30 secs.

I never had a problem with the Comcast Moto 6412 or teh Dish ViP 622. They both were able to adjust themselves for any newtork ajusted timing. Maybe it is crappy guide data.

Speaking of crappy guide data -- here on Oceanic Time Warner in Hawaii the guide data has been annoyingly lacking in detail lately. A lot of times they will just have the title of the show with no "info" details. It makes it hard to tell if an episode is one I have seen before or not. I mean, come on, how am I supposed to catch the eppy of Degrassi where Emma catches an STD from blowing some dude?!?!?!

I never had a problem with the Comcast Moto 6412 or the Dish ViP 622. They both were able to adjust themselves for any network ajusted timing. Maybe it is crappy guide data.The problem is the IPG shows 8:00-9:01 correctly, but the station doesn't start exactly on the hour/minute, rarely ever has, and many recordings start with the ending credits of the previous program or the first few seconds of the current program are missing. The SciFi channel is particularly good at messing up recordings. Oftentimes I catch the previews/credits for SG1 at the beginning of Atlantis, etc. This never used to be a problem because there were always commercials between programs, so broadcast timing didn't have to be accurate.

Now, if the IPG said 8:00-9:00, that would be "crappy guide data". :)

Speaking of the SciFi channel, for the last few weeks ECW (Wrestling) has run over a few minutes and the replay of Eureka starts late and the DVR misses the last few minutes. I was recording the first run Eureka until the new TV season started so I wasn't expecting a delay for the start of Eureka. Luckily, there is an Eureka marathon this Tuesday afternoon and I will pad the end time for the Eureka season finale.

The problem is the IPG shows 8:00-9:01 correctly, but the station doesn't start exactly on the hour/minute, rarely ever has, and many recordings start with the ending credits of the previous program or the first few seconds of the current program are missing. The SciFi channel is particularly good at messing up recordings. Oftentimes I catch the previews/credits for SG1 at the beginning of Atlantis, etc. This never used to be a problem because there were always commercials between programs, so broadcast timing didn't have to be accurate.

Now, if the IPG said 8:00-9:00, that would be "crappy guide data". :)

So did everyone with a DVR miss the end of Grey's Anatomy? Or just the SA'ers. I can't recall ever having a problem before moving into Time Warner country.

That I don't know, I accidently deleted my recording ( :( ) and caught it online. I doubt it was any specific brand DVR, I suspect the IPG was wrong or the local broadcast was off. Schteevie hasn't joined in the discussion to let us know more about why it was cut off. Since he mentioned ABC was limiting the online video to American viewers, I suspect he might be from Canada, though I don't know of any particular problem there either. It could be that the version 1.87.16.a11 he is using has some problem, it's not one of the more widely released versions.

That I don't know, I accidently deleted my recording ( :( ) and caught it online. I doubt it was any specific brand DVR, I suspect the IPG was wrong or the local broadcast was off. Schteevie hasn't joined in the discussion to let us know more about why it was cut off. Since he mentioned ABC was limiting the online video to American viewers, I suspect he might be from Canada, though I don't know of any particular problem there either. It could be that the version 1.87.16.a11 he is using has some problem, it's not one of the more widely released versions.

I am in Canada, but I was watching ABC HD.

The issue was caused by the network running the show over time.
This has happened the past two times I tried to record it, so from now on, I am going to manually extend the recording time to 9:02p.m. to be sure to get the endings.

I assume then that your IPG showed it from 8:00-9:01 the same as mine. I wish I hadn't deleted my recording. Who provides your ABC-HD feed and is this the only ABC program you have trouble with? DH and Lost generally run overtime too, sometimes 2-3 minutes, not just 1. Good luck padding it. It might be easier though to do a manual recording so you won't have to remember to pad it all the time.

I had Grey's Anatomy scheduled, and when I looked at the List it showed up as 59 minutes. Fearing that I had missed the end, I taped the rebrodcast (it was 61 minutes). Both had the ending, except I lost part of the coming attraction on both recordings (but this is quite common). I also did not notice 2 minutes missing. It's interesting that there is no federal regulation that requires a station to use standard time. So chill-out, your 8:00 show will start whenever the programming manager finishes his doobie :D

So did everyone with a DVR miss the end of Grey's Anatomy? Or just the SA'ers. I can't recall ever having a problem before moving into Time Warner country.
I'm on TWC here in Maine. The IPG said "Grey's" was scheduled for 1:01. The recording began with just a few seconds of the credits from the previous show (basically long enough for the announcer to say "'Grey's Anatomy' starts now") so it must be that the show ran longer than 1:01.

Haven't noticed this issue lately with ABC, so I hope it doesn't become habit -- we tend to record "Grey's," "Lost" and "Housewives" (haven't had a chance to check on last night's recording). HBO is biggest offender, IMHO.

So chill-out, your 8:00 show will start whenever the programming manager finishes his doobie :DROTFLMAO!!! That about sums up the situation, doesn't it? :)

Even though Desperate Housewives was set from 9:00 to 10:01 last night, I still lost about 30 seconds at the end of the show plus next week's previews.......arrghh

You know, some of these routinely went over by 2-3 minutes last year. Makes me wonder if they simply aren't updating the IPG correctly for some reason. If you lost both some of the program and the credits, that tends to mean a minute or more and that sucks. I didn't lose any of DH, at least none of the program, so it might be a local problem of some sort.

I am on SARA 1.87.27 and have manual recording problems.If i set say a record every Monday at 10:00 the first recording of the show does fine.However the next monday it shows a recording to be done in the to be recorded list but when the time arrives the show does not record.The weekly.daily and weekend manual recordings work fine.The once a week manual recordings do not work.Has anyone else had this problem or found a solution to it.Has the 1.88 software solved this problem.Could use any help anyone could give.I have a 8300sd and 8300hd with 1.87.27 and have same problem with both.

I'm anxiously waiting for 1.88. I still have 1.87.16.1 and it has issues with the "day of week" manual recordings. If I program "every thurs" from 7-8pm, the lists automatically adds an additional manual recording from 6:30-7:30. WTF??? If I try to delete one, it deletes the other too. So I obviously dont use the "day" manual recording option.

I dont know if 1.88 fixes it but I sure hope so. If I get the 1.88 update soon, I'll let you know.

I don't use manual recordings very often, but I'll set one up using 1.88.22.1 for Every Monday from 4:30-5:00 pm and let you know what happens next Monday.

Edit: FWIW, I just double-checked after I saw the other post by azdevil and here is what I found. Since the date criteria for that option goes out 2 weeks, I ended up with a recording scheduled for today and next Monday, both with the correct times. Those are the only 2 manual recordings that got scheduled.

I have the 1.87.27 and manual recording produce all sort of crazy results, including the one mentioned by Crazy. "Season pass" simply doesn't work week after week and must be reprogrammed every week. Padding is a nightmare and sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Everyday in the morning I have to adjust all my schedulled recordings and in some cases even that is impossible. I have "Lost" schedulled from 9:01 to 10:00 PM and if I try to edit and change the start time to 8:59 PM it remains the same (9:01 to 10:00).

I'm dreaming about the Tivo S3 but I still have issues with cablecards. I just hope that I can get the 1.88 (or 1.89) and at least can program the 8300 like a VCR. The way it works now is worse than a VCR.

Sergio

I have the 1.87.27 and manual recording produce all sort of crazy results, including the one mentioned by Crazy. "Season pass" simply doesn't work week after week and must be reprogrammed every week. Padding is a nightmare and sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Everyday in the morning I have to adjust all my schedulled recordings and in some cases even that is impossible. I have "Lost" schedulled from 9:01 to 10:00 PM and if I try to edit and change the start time to 8:59 PM it remains the same (9:01 to 10:00).

I'm dreaming about the Tivo S3 but I still have issues with cablecards. I just hope that I can get the 1.88 (or 1.89) and at least can program the 8300 like a VCR. The way it works now is worse than a VCR.

Sergio

how do you update the firmware?
is it something out of your control that is uploaded by the cable service provider?

FWIW, my manual recording that I set up worked fine and the schedule shows a new one set for the same time next Monday. Therefore, there should be no reason why it won't record then as scheduled. Like I said earlier, I don't do a lot of manual recording, so I don't know if this is a change in behavior from the past releases I've had. The times in the past I have done manual recordings (with 1.85.23.1, 1.87.16.1, 1.88.19.1 and now 1.88.22.1), they've worked fine and I recall 1.87.16.1 included a weekly one just like this one.

how do you update the firmware?
is it something out of your control that is uploaded by the cable service provider?


Unfortunately, yes. All you can do is to bug the cableco like I do and ask for the new software. If the cableco is small (like mine) , even worse. They are always concerned about new software=new problems and in my case they only have 2 engineers able to support customers. The holding time on the line is currently between 45 and 60 minutes and I can imagine what will happen if they start to get hundreds of phone calls a day .

Sergio

They need to be directed to this thread and told to search for 1.88 to see just how many problems 1.88.x.x seems to solve. I say "seems" only because I know many will still not be happy and there are still bugs, though with much lower impact. Some things still don't work as we think they should, padding times for weekly season passes being one, but I think everyone would be a lot happier with 1.88.x.x and they would lower their call volumes.

Sometimes complaining to your cableco, with specific examples, may get you an individual update that is not being widely released. That worked here with Cox when they broke 3250 Firewire and rolled it back. They went on to offer 1.88.19.1 to individual 8300 users that wanted Firewire support and then extended that to anyone who simply wanted the new features in the release and we willing to put up with unknown problems.

AFAIK every cableco gets every release to test and decide if it is right for them, though that may not apply to some market-specific releases. The problem when contacting the cableco is getting past the CSRs to someone who can make individual decisions. Usually this means an engineer and contacting them isn't easy. We lucked out here in Phoenix by a very knowledgeable individual getting to an engineer and they brought me along for the ride. :)

You are right, Dave. I found the "right guy" to talk about it and he promised me that will contact SA to get the newest version. Meanwhile I will see if my cablecard problems can be fixed and either will get a S3 or the 1.88. The only way to convince people to do what you want is always having a plan B.

Sergio

I hope it all works out for you and I'm happy your persistence may be paying off. I know we have our personal problems, but I don't wish anyone any ill-will or problems. I suspect the S3 is still your best bet, but it is just too darned expensive right now, at least for me. 1.88 will hopefully solve a lot of your difficulties, but there is no guarantee that you are not in one of those markets that have unique problems. I trust you will keep us apprised of any progress. :)

BTW. One of the most egregious violators of broadcast timing is CW's 7th Heaven. I know it's a corny show and all, but like 8 Is Enough, The Walton's, etc., we've grown with the characters, so what the heck? :)

At any rate, it always cuts off the ending and the credits, and it did this even as the old WB. So, I beleive it's a station problem, not a network one. :(

I've got a couple of observations to toss into this "timing" discussion:
1) One thing that can happen is that the local cable system clock looses sync. I've seen our local TW clock get off (reference NIST web clock) by 2 1/2 minutes. It normally is about 10-15 seconds off.
2) Impact of digital delays: It seems that the national HD feeds often lag a few seconds behind the SD feeds. This is probably normal, but I can easily see it on some of our local stations when they switch between the SD & HD feeds. This may well be worse on some networks than others, or perhaps station dependent.

That being said, there has been a problem that periodically surfaces with 8300 programs stopping for no reason. I've reported this to my cable company, they have acknowledged it and said that SA has a fix that they (TW) expect will be released to cable systems this fall. How long it takes to get released is another matter.

This DVR is such a piece of junk. Since no one responded to my previous message, I assume no one has seen the problem with false disk space used. I can't be the only one. Well, I now lost a bunch of recordings I had schedule because it thinks it ran out of disk space. Just to show how messed it is:
1. If I delete all recording, it shows 0% used
2. If I record 1 minute of a program, it shows 82% used
3. If I recourd 2 hours of HD programs, it shows 92% used

Cablevision can only "send someone to fix it". 10-1 says that thay just replace it with another one. 10-1 also says this will happen again with the new one.

If I could figure out what triggers it I could at least try to avoid causing the glitch. Any ideas?

It's probably just a bad box and a swap out will fix the issue. That's the good thing about renting the SA8300 from you cable company, if it dies you get another one for no charge.

This DVR is such a piece of junk. Since no one responded to my previous message, I assume no one has seen the problem with false disk space used. I can't be the only one. Well, I now lost a bunch of recordings I had schedule because it thinks it ran out of disk space. Just to show how messed it is:
1. If I delete all recording, it shows 0% used
2. If I record 1 minute of a program, it shows 82% used
3. If I recourd 2 hours of HD programs, it shows 92% used

Cablevision can only "send someone to fix it". 10-1 says that thay just replace it with another one. 10-1 also says this will happen again with the new one.

If I could figure out what triggers it I could at least try to avoid causing the glitch. Any ideas?


You've answered your own question in your very first sentence :

This DVR is such a piece of junk.

Yes, the likely only fix is to replace it with another one, courtesy of your local cableco. You might be able to force the unit to reformat the disk and hope for the best, but this would obviously nuke any recordings you currently have on disk. Also, it won't cost you anything out of pocket to replace it, but now you've lost a whole lot of recordings that you've paid to receive, and you're likely to be pretty pissed about the situation.

Yes, it is entirely possible for this to occur again. I'd wager that the bug was triggered by your particular usage of the box, and if your usage pattern remains the same you'll likely encounter the bug again. Please be gentle with this box, it doesn't like to do complicated stuff.

You can try to backtrack your steps which lead up to the funky disk usage. You may or may find the root cause. Will that be fruitful ? Hard to say. Honestly ? I wouldn't burn a whole lot of time trying to figure out how this box works, it's just not worth it...

This DVR is such a piece of junk. Since no one responded to my previous message, I assume no one has seen the problem with false disk space used. I can't be the only one. Well, I now lost a bunch of recordings I had schedule because it thinks it ran out of disk space. Just to show how messed it is:
1. If I delete all recording, it shows 0% used
2. If I record 1 minute of a program, it shows 82% used
3. If I recourd 2 hours of HD programs, it shows 92% used

Cablevision can only "send someone to fix it". 10-1 says that thay just replace it with another one. 10-1 also says this will happen again with the new one.

If I could figure out what triggers it I could at least try to avoid causing the glitch. Any ideas?Have you tried doing a hard reboot? It is described in the first post in this thread. It is worth trying before you replace the DVR.

Jay,

Try the "hard" reboot. If that doesn't help, replace to box.

I saw your initial post and the numbers didn't look all that bad because those percentages are of little practical value unless they show figures like your last post. I didn't answer because I figured someone else would and then I simply forgot about it.

Anwyay, there is quite a bit of overhead that takes away useable space. There are also live buffers that take away more. The space required for any given hour of HD recording varies from around 4-5G to 8-9G depending on the bitrate used by the station for any given program. There have been many discussions here regarding space useage.

Your latest post paints an entirely different picture than the original, at least ot me, and if the hard reboot doesn't help, then it's either the box itself or your version of software. I think you mentioned you had 1.88 something and I haven't seen any useage percentage numbers out of the ordinary with the 1.88.19.1 or 1.88.22.1 versions I have.

am I mistaken that the program guide set to episodic- set to record a show 8 days in advance? I thought the IPG only dl'ed 7 days at a time?

There is a place-holder set 9 days out until the next episode appears in the IPG. For weekly episodes, you should only see this right after a weekly season pass ends until the IPG updates during the night. For example, all my season passes for tonight that have finished recording show up in the Scheduled Recordings list for next Thursday, not next Tuesday. When the IPG updates at 3:00 am tonight, these will then be changed to next Tuesday where the actual program is. If a weekly episode is preempted and not in the IPG for next week, the place-holder will stay set for Thursday and not get updated until the program shows up in the IPG again.

I should note this does not apply to manual recordings. If you look at the day options, you will see you can schedule manual recordings 2 weeks in advance.

Thanks.

I just went ahead and replaced it today. That way, if it happens again, I know its not specific to the box.

By the way, the hard reboot only changed the % in use, didn't get rid of it. Maybe the hard drive is flakey, but it smells like a software glitch. We'll see.

Sorry the hard reboot didn't help, didn't really think it would, but it's always worth a shot. Let us know how the new box does.

I'm seeing some really strange disk usage numbers on my Cablevision SARA 8300HD recently. May be related to the software that got pushed out about a month or two ago. I'm not home right now and can't access the actual version number. I'll add it later.

I have an external 250 GB drive attached to my 8300HD. I've had it for a year now with no issues. Over the past few weeks, I've noted that the disk usage being reported seemed a bit high for the number of recordings I had so I decided to do some cleanup.

Even after deleting almost everything leaving only five programs with a total of about 5 and a half hours or recording, it was still reporting 48% full.

I powered off, disconnected the external disk and powered back up. All five recordings are still there (indicating nothing was actually on the external drive) and usage is now only 16%!

I brought it back up with the external drive attached. Back to 48%. I brought up the diagnostic screens and looked at the hard disk page. For HDD1, the internal drive, the main file system had like 111 GB free. But HDD2, the external drive showed only around 100GB free (of about 230GB). Something's seriously wrong here since it doesn't appear that any programs are actually on that disk.

I tried a hard reboot but I'm not sure if that actually did anything other than a normal reboot. The appearance on the box and the time it took was the same for a standard power plug reboot and a power plug plus power button reboot. Should I be able to tell the difference? In any case that didn't help.

I tried to initiate a defrag by doing a soft reboot first thing in the morning with nothing scheduled to record all day. Never seemed to hear any disk activity that would indicate a defrag was underway and when I got home at night, there was still no change in disk usage.

Any other suggestions? Is there some way to initiate a format of only the external drive so that I can retain the programs and other stuff on the internal drive?

I had the most incredible dream last night. I dreamed that I went upstairs and turned on my 60" plasma and it suddenly had all the enjoyment and ease of use that it had been lacking for the past 2 years. The picture quality was pristine, and the interface on the DVR was so intuitive and clear. There were no more button sequences of A-B-C, all my shows were neatly arranged in their own folders, I could search for shows by keywords/titles/ actors/directors/etc...I could pause a show, toggle to the other tuner, watch a few minutes, pause that show, toggle back to the other (without having to record either one), I never got kicked back to live at the end of the show, the guide was so intuitive and easy to read. And best of all, my antenna in the attic was now perfectly integrated into my channel line up just like the cable lineup, and I could easily record two pristine uncompressed OTA HD programs at the same time!

Then I woke up and realized it wasn't a dream. It was my new TiVo S3!
For those who've never been washed in the water, I can't help you. But for those that want a better TV experience, dump the SA8300 and get the S3.

Then I woke up and realized it wasn't a dream.
I could easily record two pristine uncompressed OTA HD programs at the same time! It was my new TiVo S3! For those who've never been washed in the water, I can't help you. But for those that want a better TV experience, dump the SA8300 and get the S3.
Too bad those pristine HD recordings can only exist on the TiVo's tiny little (25-30 hour HD content) internal hard drive- they can't be moved/saved to an external drive or to your computer.
Soon you'll have to delete then to make room for other HD recordings. Oh the reality....... :(

Too bad those pristine HD recordings can only exist on the TiVo's tiny little (25-30 hour HD content) internal hard drive- they can't be moved/saved to an external drive or to your computer.

We can all thank CableLabs for that.

Soon you'll have to delete then to make room for other HD recordings. Oh the reality....... :(

Not so. It's about a 10 minute operation to add a larger hard drive to a TiVo. Also, it'll be a 2 minute operation to do the same when CableLabs gets off there butts and approves the eSATA capability. There's obviously existing eSATA applications out there, so the precedent has been set. All TiVo has to do is keep close to those existing designs and they're all set. No trailblazing required.

Or, he could have stuck with the 8300 and trusted it to not mangle recordings he had stored on an external disk. Yeah, right! Oh the reality! :(

The REALITY is that the SARA 8300 could have a 50 terabyte hard drive and it wouldn't matter, I've never recorded more than about one show at a time because it was so stinking painful. The eSATA will be added soon and that will take care of any storage issues.

The REALITY is that the SARA 8300 could have a 50 terabyte hard drive and it wouldn't matter, I've never recorded more than about one show at a time because it was so stinking painful. The eSATA will be added soon and that will take care of any storage issues.
Crap (as usual), pure crap! As I am writing this my SA8300 (with eSATA drive) is:
1) Transfering "Runway" from last night to DVD (VCR Copy function).
2) Recording "City of Joy" from HDNet
3) Recording "The View" in HD
4) Playing the above "The View", but delayed about 2 minutes.

Crap (as usual), pure crap! As I am writing this my SA8300 (with eSATA drive) is:
1) Transfering "Runway" from last night to DVD (VCR Copy function).
2) Recording "City of Joy" from HDNet
3) Recording "The View" in HD
4) Playing the above "The View", but delayed about 2 minutes.


There's a joke somewhere in there about the 8300 pom-pom wavers and Rosie O'Donnell..... but I'll be nice. :)

Crap (as usual), pure crap! As I am writing this my SA8300 (with eSATA drive) is:
1) Transfering "Runway" from last night to DVD (VCR Copy function).
2) Recording "City of Joy" from HDNet
3) Recording "The View" in HD
4) Playing the above "The View", but delayed about 2 minutes.
I'm not sure I'd be so proud of that list you got going there :D Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I never disputed that you could do any of those things.

Seriously, I'm happy that you can do all those things. And a Ford Festiva will get you to work every day, and your body could survive on beans and rice, and you don't really need a house as you could live in a tent, etc..etc...etc...

But for those that want a better TV experience, dump the SA8300 and get the S3.

I'd pick the $800 off my money tree in the backyard but it's not in bloom :(

I'm taking donations though. Let me know if you need my address to send your check.

I'd pick the $800 off my money tree in the backyard but it's not in bloom :(
It's not just the $800 to buy the TiVo, it's $800.......
Plus the monthly TiVo sub cost
Or the $199 transfer fee to take the lifetime sub off one of your existing TiVo's
Plus the monthly sub for 2 cablecards for the TiVo
Plus $300-$500 for a larger hard drive to increase internal storage

And.... Cablelabs may never approve external storage support for TiVo Series3
And.... Cablelabs may never approve TiVo To Go (ability to transfer content from the TiVo to your desktop computer) for the Series3


Too many plus, and's and or's for the Series3 Tivo right now... :(
If external drive storage & TiVo To Go/desktop downloading were enabled from the getgo on the Series3... it would be a no brainier. Cablelabs knows this, and to protect their members (cable co's) interests they specifically didn't approve these features.

Well, I already have Tivo's so the extra cost is $6.95/mo + $3.50 for 2 cable cards - $7/mo (I think, can't remember) I was paying for the SA8300. So about $3.50 more a month + the $800. But I tell you, that's the best $800 I've spent in a LONG time.

For azdevil, sorry, but I did buy a couple of my best friends TiVos over the past few years.

Getting this back on topic, a couple of things I noticed this week on my 1.88.23.1 version from Cablevision. One time recordings are not effected by title or time changes. The time you initially set to record will be recorded even if there is a change in the shows title or scheduled time. I noticed that this week with the MLB playoffs as both time and titles changed from when I set up the recordings. It will show in your list with the title it was set up with even when that title changes. So in effect one time recordings are just a time based recording.

All episode recordings recheck the guide on a daily basis and and will unschedule if the title changes. I had set up an all episode recording for a new show on my RSN that airs daily. The start date of the show was pushed back 2 weeks and other shows were put into its time slot. The first scheduled recording turned into a placeholder and the other scheduled recordings were removed from my list.

Okay, this thread is huge so I don't want to go through it all. Sorry if these questions have been asked.

1. Does it look better when hooked up with an HDMI or with Component?