Originally posted by stosh
Has anyone had any success in scheduling a "new episode only" recording, and then adjusting the record time by adding a couple of minutes and have it work?

For some reason, my episodes recording are missing the last couple of minutes, and when I go into scheduled recordings and add a couple of minutes to the end of the show, it lets add the minutes, but then ignores the change when it records.

No, it doesn't work. Another SA bug apparently.

Yup, same thing happened for me. I had Judge Judy set to record and it feels the need to start the recording at 4:01 and 4:31 for each episode. They both finish at the correct time, but even when I add 1 minute, it "forgets" when it starts recording.

To the best of my knowledge it does work on mine running SARA version 1.85.17.2. I haven't done it in a while however, and I have a recording scheduled tonight on FX for The Shield to go over 10 minutes.

I'll let you know if it works tomorrow.

Suddenly my Houston TWC 8300HD has decided it won't go into VOD. I get a session problem Location 207, code 2207. It's not the line, 6207 works OK. Tech says it's SA's code, probably not the box but he didn't have one to swap but maybe I should try swapping it although it probably won't help.

Probably I'll swap it unless somebody has some good ideas.

TerryB

My box decided to do some very weird stuff with Scrubs tonight. I had it set to record all episodes of Scrubs at any time "on this channel". It decided that it was going to start recording at 8:43 and record for 10 minutes (correct start time, but not long enough). It recorded the showing at 9:22 correctly, but first one was a little weird. TiVo picked it up on our other TV though.

Originally posted by hookbill
To the best of my knowledge it does work on mine running SARA version 1.85.17.2. I haven't done it in a while however, and I have a recording scheduled tonight on FX for The Shield to go over 10 minutes.

I'll let you know if it works tomorrow.

Following up on my own post, I had the Shield set actually to go 15 minutes over, and that is what was recorded. It must be a different software version that has the bug where it won't record additional time.

thanks for checking that out. I'll have to find out which SARA version I've got. But just to clarify - you used the IPG to set the recording not the manual recording? My hunch was that in manual recording you could set any start and stop time you wanted; but by selecting the program from the IPG, you're locked into the mornal start/stop times.

Originally posted by stosh
thanks for checking that out. I'll have to find out which SARA version I've got. But just to clarify - you used the IPG to set the recording not the manual recording? My hunch was that in manual recording you could set any start and stop time you wanted; but by selecting the program from the IPG, you're locked into the mornal start/stop times.

Correct, I used the IPG. It was not a manual recording.

while watching TV last night, my 8300 changed the channel by itself to a channel I had set up to record. There was actually two channels being recorded at the same time. The thing was, the unit would'nt let me change back to what I was watching or to any other channel. Just got a message asking if I wanted to cancel recording. Tried turning off and on but no luck.
Is this normal?

Originally posted by jst4fun
while watching TV last night, my 8300 changed the channel by itself to a channel I had set up to record. There was actually two channels being recorded at the same time. The thing was, the unit would'nt let me change back to what I was watching or to any other channel. Just got a message asking if I wanted to cancel recording. Tried turning off and on but no luck.
Is this normal?
If you were recording 2 shows at once using the 2 tuners, then you can only watch another recording at the same time. You can't watch "live" tv at the same time (you'd need another tuner). You could use your TV tuner separately from the 8300.

just to add to what Rod said, if you are recording two shows at the same time, you can do one of three things: watch either one of the shows being recorded, or watch a previously recorded show.

Thanks, Stosh - a more accurate statement of the options.

I have read previously that you could also send a previously recorded program out the archive to VCR connection to an SDTV, so actually have four shows in process at once.

TerryB

Ok, so cannot watch a third show while the 8300 is recording two shows at same time. Now I understand. Hey, wait a minute, these were my wifes shows that were being recorded, seems kinda unfair. Maybe time to add another DVR.
Thanks guys.

Just noticed that I've got the "New First-Run episodes" recording option now. Sara version 1.85.14.1, Phoenix Cox Cable. Just set a couple of recordings, now to see if it actually works.

Rod, FWIW that version of the software is the one we've had since they released the 8300HDs last year. The "new" option has been there all along, but is now available to us because they finally upgraded the IPG database to include the First Run flag. I just checked the AZ HDTV Forum and the folks there aren't reporting any other changes to the IPG as yet and I haven't noticed any others myself. I've set up several First Run recordings, so if you find the option doesn't work, please let us know.

How do you check the SARA version?

Press and hold the Pause button until the Mail light starts to flash (around 10-15 seconds). Press Page Up (-) and you will enter the diagnostic screens.

I can use the 8300hd remote (at8400) to operate my Mits just fine except trying to change tv source inputs. When I push the "video source" button on the bottom of the remote while in "tv" mode , I get the device menu screen to come up, but after rotating to the particular source I want to change to, I cannot "enter" it. The "select" button on the remote does not correspond to the tv's "enter" button and there is no other button I can find that acts like an "enter" button for the television. Same thing when using the numbers to direct access a particular channel. The requested channel will come up but hitting select on the 8300 remote will not change to that channel. The tv will eventually change to the requested channel automatically though after a long delay. Bottom line, though , is that I cannot get by using just one remote (at8400) because everytime I want to select a different tv source input I grab the Mits remote to use its enter button to actually switch to the source I want to use. Any workaround for this other than investing in an universal remote that might work everything?

Video Source button on my remote does not work.

Problem with inconsistent HD signal

Received my SA8300 about 2 months ago and love it (even my wife loves it!) I use an HDMI cable (pass-thru) to my sony and optical audio to the surround sound system. Starting Wed night I noticed the box would sometimes not switch to HD signal. If I entered the channel # on the remote it sometimes worked, but if I just used the channel button it usually didn't work. Seemed problematic for both 720 and 1080. If the channel was not coming up in HD, it would playback shows recored from that channel with gray bars (even if they didn't have the bars while we were watching it live). Any clues? I am in San Diego with Cox cable. Thanks -- this has me baffled.

Thanks for the info, Dave. I thought that was the old Sara version and was wondering how I got the first run capability without an upgrade.

You're welcome, Rod.

Originally posted by macduff
Problem with inconsistent HD signal

Received my SA8300 about 2 months ago and love it (even my wife loves it!) I use an HDMI cable (pass-thru) to my sony and optical audio to the surround sound system. Starting Wed night I noticed the box would sometimes not switch to HD signal. If I entered the channel # on the remote it sometimes worked, but if I just used the channel button it usually didn't work. Seemed problematic for both 720 and 1080. If the channel was not coming up in HD, it would playback shows recored from that channel with gray bars (even if they didn't have the bars while we were watching it live). Any clues? I am in San Diego with Cox cable. Thanks -- this has me baffled.

macduff-

We received new firmware from Cox in San Diego right about the time you noticed the problem (1.87.9.3). The firmware added an "HD" icon in the program guide for HD programs, and also added the option to record First-Run Only shows. Both great enhancements, but unfortunately they apparently broke something. Many people noticed problems with the 8300 defaulting to 480i. See this thread for more discussion:

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/3/3091.html?1111794493

The good news is that as of this afternoon, Cox has sent out a new upgrade - 1.87.16.1, and it seems to have helped. Too early to see if the problem is completely gone. Test it and post the results in the above forum (and here if you want).

Yes, the 1.87.16.1 upgrade addressed the auto conversion problems of the 8000 and 8300 STB's. The problems did not appear when using fixed resolutions, but only on auto settings.
First run flag option is an option from the IPG vendor and works across any DVR software version. I had been using it for over a year, on the 8000 before the 8300 was even available. The HD icon is a visible icon inserted on the IPG from that flag. The HD flag has always been there,(or your HD shows would have been recorded in SD) but the 1.87.x software enabled the icon to be able to view it on screen.

vegggas

Dave,
Add this to your list of tips and tricks.

If you are using the 8300, or the 8000, with rev 1.87.xx SARA software, one of the diagnostic pages (pg 30) shows the MPEG decoder input vertical and horizontal resolutions from the cable company or their source as it hits the STB.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Dave,
Add this to your list of tips and tricks. Done. It's entitled V/H Resolution Information. I also added a tip on how to find the software version number (since that question keeps coming up).

Vegas,

What are the basic difference between 1.85.xx and 1.87.xx software? The 1.85.xx software seems to be common on TW systems and the 1.87.xx on Cox. Is that it?

gvc- I have a Mits 65869 HDTV and the SA 8000HD (vice 8300HD). In TV mode I can SCROLL the device selection with the button marked TV/VCR (with Input written above it) AND CAN SELECT THE INPUT using the button marked HD ZOOM (with Enter written above it.) The only glitch is that the scroll likes to jump two devices at a time most of the time. Given the similarities between the 8300 and 8000, it might work for you too.

--hourglass


gvc wrote-
I can use the 8300hd remote (at8400) to operate my Mits just fine except trying to change tv source inputs. When I push the "video source" button on the bottom of the remote while in "tv" mode , I get the device menu screen to come up, but after rotating to the particular source I want to change to, I cannot "enter" it. The "select" button on the remote does not correspond to the tv's "enter" button and there is no other button I can find that acts like an "enter" button for the television.

Originally posted by davehancock
Vegas,

What are the basic difference between 1.85.xx and 1.87.xx software? The 1.85.xx software seems to be common on TW systems and the 1.87.xx on Cox. Is that it? I'll let vegggas discuss the specifics, but we've had 1.85.x.x on Cox-Phoenix since they released the SA8300HD and 1.87.x.x seems to be starting to make the rounds on Cox these days. I believe 1.87.x.x. is the attempt to get the same version of software to run on all cableco's using SA equipment so they don't have so many different versions out there. I seem to remember vegggas (or someone) saying one time that the various versions basically contained the same stuff, but had minor differences to make them run on different cableco's because of different head-end equipment. I believe the goal is to get one version that runs regardless of all the different head-end equipment around the country. I'm sure vegggas will correct me if I've mis-spoken.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hourglass
[B]gvc- I have a Mits 65869 HDTV and the SA 8000HD (vice 8300HD). In TV mode I can SCROLL the device selection with the button marked TV/VCR (with Input written above it) AND CAN SELECT THE INPUT using the button marked HD ZOOM (with Enter written above it.) The only glitch is that the scroll likes to jump two devices at a time most of the time. Given the similarities between the 8300 and 8000, it might work for you too.

--hourglass


hour..thanks for the suggestion. I tried but no go. when getting the input menu after hitting "video source" in tv mode , I then tried the "#" button which is the hd zoom button on the 8300 remote, but nothing happened. All I can do is rotate through the options by continually hitting the video source button. the tv remains on the original source. I cant even get rid of the input menu screen without using the mit's remote. thanks anyway.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I'll let vegggas discuss the specifics, but we've had 1.85.x.x on Cox-Phoenix since they released the SA8300HD and 1.87.x.x seems to be starting to make the rounds on Cox these days. I believe 1.87.x.x. is the attempt to get the same version of software to run on all cableco's using SA equipment so they don't have so many different versions out there. I seem to remember vegggas (or someone) saying one time that the various versions basically contained the same stuff, but had minor differences to make them run on different cableco's because of different head-end equipment. I believe the goal is to get one version that runs regardless of all the different head-end equipment around the country. I'm sure vegggas will correct me if I've mis-spoken.


one of the fixes in the newer version , at least for cox las vegas, was the resolution bug that kept the 8300 from locking into 1080i on all the hd channels. before, I could start @1080i on channel 700 (discovery) and by the time I got to inhd2 the box would automatically switch back to 480 and stay there. it took a few extra channel changes or zoom stretches to get it back into 1080 mode. Now, after the new firmware update, the box stays in 1080i throughout the 700 series and surfing is much faster with the resolution locked in.

gvc,

I think that's what the change from 1.87.9.3 to 1.87.16.1 was for. What I am trying to figure out is 1.87.xx vs 1.85.xx.

Dave,

I know that the 1.83.xx.xx series has been for the 8000 boxes and the 1.85.xx for the 8300 boxes - are you saying that you suspect the 1.87 is intended as a common platform for both the 8000 and 8300?

Many of these problems you guys are talking about, like not locking on to an hd signal, going back to 480i I saw when I had version 1.85.14.2. I'm currently running 1.85.17.3 and my big complaint is it still misses recordings from time to time for no apparent reason.

I'd like to see them correct that permanently and also update the IPG so it would show if it's first run or repeat in my area. But since I have the worlds worst cable company (Adelphia) I doubt that will happen.

Other then that it's ok for the money.

I don't have a detailed list, or confirmation of specifics (no bug fix report) but here it goes anyway.
I believe that the 1.85 version of software was a continuation of the original 8000 software development adapted to the 8300. I think the 1.87 version of software was built around the 8300 and adapted to the 8000. The differences in versions is dramatic if you go through the diagnostic screens and see all the changes, but the end user doesn't see much difference, other than the improvements.
Getting multiple STB's on the same platform also increases memory and performance, since the ROM image sent out is smaller and more efficient. The 1.87 software is a step in that direction for SA DVR development across multi-platform MSO's.

vegggas

Veggas,

So from what you are saying it sounds like 1.87 is used on both the 800 & the 8300 while 1.85 was strictly for the 8300 and 1.83 just for the 8000. Right?

All of the instances that I have noted of 1.87 have been COX. Am I wrong in this observation?

Thanks for the great insight.

No,
Re-read my previous post. I believe 1.85 was originally a continuation of the 8000 development, adapted to also work on the 8300. The 1.87 is thought to be originally 8300 development, adapted to work with the 8000. These versions are available on systems other than Cox too.

vegggas

Gotcha,

Thanks,

I know that here in Rochester, NY that the 8000 uses 1.83 and the 8300 uses 1.85 so it looked like the place that they merged was 1.87. At least I was somehow predisposed to think that way.

I have only found "spotty" posts on what the monthly cost is supposed to be for 8300HD rental/service.

Our Cox (Phoenix) bill shows:
Digital Converter - DVR/HD $15
Digital Converter - DVR $10
Cox Digital Video Recorder Service $05.

This $30/mo. added to $45/mo for Digital Cable & Variety tier = $75/mo.

Does this sound close to what you others are being charged? Appreciate any feedback; didn't see any sense in calling a Cox rep. w/ this question :rolleyes:

Originally posted by hookbill
I'm currently running 1.85.17.3 and my big complaint is it still misses recordings from time to time for no apparent reason.

I'd like to see them correct that permanently and also update the IPG so it would show if it's first run or repeat in my area. But since I have the worlds worst cable company (Adelphia) I doubt that will happen.

I think this is due to Adelphia changing info in the IPG. They seem to slightly change the name of some shows on the day they air, confusing the box.

They are the worlds worst cable company. It's as if the family from Arrested Development had started a cable co.

mfabel-
Thanks for the information and link. It seems to be working fine now (plus I get the fancy new HD logos with the new software version -- whoo-hoo!). Appreciate the help.

Originally posted by joe55
I have only found "spotty" posts on what the monthly cost is supposed to be for 8300HD rental/service.

Our Cox (Phoenix) bill shows:
Digital Converter - DVR/HD $15
Digital Converter - DVR $10
Cox Digital Video Recorder Service $05.

This $30/mo. added to $45/mo for Digital Cable & Variety tier = $75/mo.

Does this sound close to what you others are being charged? Appreciate any feedback; didn't see any sense in calling a Cox rep. w/ this question :rolleyes:
1. You didn't put a location in your profile, so it's difficult to know what you should be paying.

2. Cable rates vary by area/city, so what one pays in Phoenix has no direct correlation to what one pays in San Diego, etc., though they may be close.

3. I pay $15 for the HD-DVR and $5 for the service.

4. I'd also pay $5.95 for each additional digital box, but I don't have any at the moment.

5. I have a larger digital package than you with all premium channels, internet, and telephone, so my total bill is a lot more than yours. The cable portion is around $90 though.

6. The bottom line is your bill sounds about right for what service you have. :)

Here's what I pay with Adelphia:

(Basic Cable included in HOA)

Ultimate Advantage Pack: $67.45
-Digital Basic
-All Premium Channels
-High-Speed Internet

HD Plus: $5
-HD locals
-HDNET, HDMVS, INHD1/2, ESPNHD, DSCHD

First 8300HD DVR: $7.95
Second 8300HD DVR: $9.95

DVR Service waived due to Ultimate Advantage Pack subscription.

Mike

That's weird...why do they charge more for a second box?

They give you a "break" on the first one. I think because of the package that I have...

Looks like Phoenix just got the 1.87.16.1 upgrade. Came home tonight to find my 8300 rebooted with the new firmware.

Yes, we did. Looks like we're finally in-sync with many others. Now if ABC-15 could only fix their audio, we'd be in pretty good shape. :)

Edit: I just noticed that the Recorded List now displays programs currently being recorded in Red. I don't believe it did this until now.

...And if KUTP-DT could start sending out UPN-HD, we would be in HD heaven from a locals perspective...:)

Dave,
Check the Cox Cable threads at the HDTV.ForSanDiego site regarding our recent experiences with our FW upgrades over the last week with the most recent being to 1.87.16.1. Could you please verify that (in Phoenix or LV) your "Copy to VCR" feature on the 8300 still produces a clean picture? The new FW may be responsible (here in San Diego) for terrible PQ output when using "Copy to VCR" only. The PQ used to be fine before the upgrade but now seems to have a lot of "Aliasing/Jaggies". Can you or anyone else that just got upgraded to SARA 1.87.16.1 confirm this? Thanks!

I will try to test this tonight after I get home from work. Though I have a VCR connected, I never use that feature, so I'm not sure if I will know if it's the PQ is the same or worse. Maybe someone who uses that feature more will test it earlier.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
1. You didn't put a location in your profile, so it's difficult to know what you should be paying.

2. Cable rates vary by area/city, so what one pays in Phoenix has no direct correlation to what one pays in San Diego, etc., though they may be close.

3. I pay $15 for the HD-DVR and $5 for the service.

4. I'd also pay $5.95 for each additional digital box, but I don't have any at the moment.

5. I have a larger digital package than you with all premium channels, internet, and telephone, so my total bill is a lot more than yours. The cable portion is around $90 though.

6. The bottom line is your bill sounds about right for what service you have. :)

Dave,
I updated my profile location and your Cox bill is very relvant to mine. Your post didn't show the $10 DVR charge that I have (on top of $15 HD-DVR rental). With this info I was able to get Cox to remove the ten bucks from my bill, retroactive back 3 months.
Thanx mutch, Joe
BTW: Thats a sweet deal avmike is getting from Adelphia in Fla!

SA 8300 and Digital Music Channels

Last month there was a post from pbenjamin stating that he could not listen to the digital music channels without having to leave the TV on (which would lead to burn in). There really weren't any replies other than changing the input (but that still requires the tv being on). I am having the same problem, even though I run an optical audio out from my 8300 to my surround sound receiver. I thought it might be my HDMI connection, so I connected an S-video input and the sound still cut out after the tv was turned off. Any suggestions? I didn't have this problem with my old 3250 box (but no HDMI and DVR then either). Thanks!

Originally posted by joe55
I updated my profile location and your Cox bill is very relvant to mine. Your post didn't show the $10 DVR charge that I have (on top of $15 HD-DVR rental). With this info I was able to get Cox to remove the ten bucks from my bill, retroactive back 3 months. Thanks, Joe, I guess that just proves my point. Had I known you were also from Peoria, I could have simply said the $10 DVR charge was bogus or at least asked you specifically about it. I assumed you had another digital box in the bedroom or something. I guess location is one of my pet peeves, as it is with a few others here. Many times when folks don't take the time to add a location, we have to post the question and it simply wastes time and effort. In any event, I'm glad you got it straightened out, $30 comes in handy with the price of gas going through the roof again. :)

Originally posted by macduff
SA 8300 and Digital Music Channels

Last month there was a post from pbenjamin stating that he could not listen to the digital music channels without having to leave the TV on (which would lead to burn in). There really weren't any replies other than changing the input (but that still requires the tv being on). I am having the same problem, even though I run an optical audio out from my 8300 to my surround sound receiver. I thought it might be my HDMI connection, so I connected an S-video input and the sound still cut out after the tv was turned off. Any suggestions? I didn't have this problem with my old 3250 box (but no HDMI and DVR then either). Thanks!

I use the digital out and only put my TV on to see what channel is playing and then turn it off. I have no problem piping the music through my pre/pro through the main channels and through the 2nd zone out to my deck, dining room , etc. with the TV off. I'm running component to my plasma, but that should not be relevant. Should it?

David

Originally posted by MarketingProf
I use the digital out and only put my TV on to see what channel is playing and then turn it off. I have no problem piping the music through my pre/pro through the main channels and through the 2nd zone out to my deck, dining room , etc. with the TV off. I'm running component to my plasma, but that should not be relevant. Should it?

David I do not have an HDMI connection and have no problem turning off my TV while listening to music channels (or any other channel for that matter). If all macduff did was connect an S-Video cable "in addition" to his existing HDMI cable, the HDMI could still be the problem. Unless he actually disconnects the HDMI, he will not know if the audio problem is really related to the HDMI connection or not. It appears though that if an HDMI cable is connected and does not sense an active TV (regardless of which TV Input is being viewed), the HDMI shuts off all audio. FWIW, Paul and I discussed this quite a bit in the AZ HDTV Forums, but I don't remember if he ever resolved the issue or just switched to a Component connection. I'm confident he'll comment as soon as he reads this discussion.

Originally posted by Rod Rebello
Looks like Phoenix just got the 1.87.16.1 upgrade. Came home tonight to find my 8300 rebooted with the new firmware.

I am in Phoenix as well and one thing I noticed with the new version is that fast forwarding works much better. There is a real short pause before it starts fast forwarding but nowhere near as long as it used to be.

Joe and Doubledaz, I just got my 8300 and haven't seen a bill yet, but are you saying that if they stick an extra $10 charge on the bill for the DVR I can call them and they will remove it?

Also anyone in Phoenix notice the channels in the 800's? It looks like they might be digital versions of the analog channels.

Originally posted by Azlen
IAlso anyone in Phoenix notice the channels in the 800's? It looks like they might be digital versions of the analog channels.

Here in the Cleveland area they sent out an announcement that digital channels for local stations will now be in the 800's. But what they DID was made the local channels digital in their regular spots, for example channels 4,5,8 digital and 804 805 and 808 analog.

If you don't have a box when you tune to channel 4 what you see is 804.

When you turn to channel 4 with a box you see channel 4.

The CSR's at Adelphia will tell you it's not that way, but if you have a tech come out he will tell you the CSR's are wrong.

Only at ADELPHIA!:)

This was easy to test as I have sets hooked up to both the DVR and without. On the digital stations there is a delay.

Probably both 4 and 804 are analog. The cable boxes have a mapping function so they can have you tune to a specific channel (804 in this case) while the box is really tuned to analog channel 4.

You can verify this by going to the diagnostic screens and looking at the tuner information.

Originally posted by davehancock
Probably both 4 and 804 are analog. The cable boxes have a mapping function so they can have you tune to a specific channel (804 in this case) while the box is really tuned to analog channel 4.

You can verify this by going to the diagnostic screens and looking at the tuner information.

Nope, not out in my area. I know it's weird. It's Adelphia.

It works just like I mapped it out.

Originally posted by Azlen
I am in Phoenix as well and one thing I noticed with the new version is that fast forwarding works much better. There is a real short pause before it starts fast forwarding but nowhere near as long as it used to be.

Joe and Doubledaz, I just got my 8300 and haven't seen a bill yet, but are you saying that if they stick an extra $10 charge on the bill for the DVR I can call them and they will remove it?

Also anyone in Phoenix notice the channels in the 800's? It looks like they might be digital versions of the analog channels. Len, why don't you simply add Phoenix to the location in your profile and no one will have to guess or remember your post? :)

In Joe's case, they were charging him for a regular HD box (or non-HD DVR)while also charging him for the HD-DVR. If that happens to you, by all means call them and get it corrected, but I doubt it will be a problem. If all you have is the 8300, the charge should be $15 for the box and $5 for the service.

The 800 channels have been there for some time. They are getting ready to simulcast a digital version along with the analog version of all those channels. Some appear to be "live", but they are just analog copies at the moment. There is no ETA yet for the simulcast to go "live".

I trust you are also reading the SA8300HD Tips & Tricks thread here (I don't want to cross-post the same info) and have checked out the AZ HDTV Forum for more info on the 8300 and Phoenix HDTV in general.

Originally posted by davehancock
Probably both 4 and 804 are analog. The cable boxes have a mapping function so they can have you tune to a specific channel (804 in this case) while the box is really tuned to analog channel 4.

You can verify this by going to the diagnostic screens and looking at the tuner information. That appears to be the case at the moment here in Phoenix. Right now they are duplicating local analogs and won't give an ETA for the digital simulcast.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
In Joe's case, they were charging him for a regular HD box (or non-HD DVR)while also charging him for the HD-DVR. If that happens to you, by all means call them and get it corrected, but I doubt it will be a problem. If all you have is the 8300, the charge should be $15 for the box and $5 for the service.

I had a similar problem w/ Adelphia. They were charging my 8300HD as 2 boxes: 1 DVR and 1HD. It was causing a bunch of problems with the box, because the system was trying to communicate (IPG, FW) with 2 different boxes. Everyone should check their bills to make sure this isn;t the case for you.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ

The 800 channels have been there for some time. They are getting ready to simulcast a digital version along with the analog version of all those channels. Some appear to be "live", but they are just analog copies at the moment. There is no ETA yet for the simulcast to go "live".

I checked yesterday and they are not exact copies as the 800 level channel was a second or so behind the regular channel. Also my PQ is better on the 800 channel than on the regular channel. I called Cox and they said they were testing the 800 channels for digital simulcast, so it looks like they may be broadcasting digital versions on the 800's for some of the time anyway but haven't gone completely live yet.

I trust you are also reading the SA8300HD Tips & Tricks thread here (I don't want to cross-post the same info) and have checked out the AZ HDTV Forum for more info on the 8300 and Phoenix HDTV in general.

Are you refering to the local programming area here or is there another AZ HDTV forum?

Guys...I'm not trying to tell you all what to talk about, I'm not the thread police....:) I thought this thread was for the 8300....SARA.

Now not that I'm not guilty myself, I made an off topic post on the digitals too....actually two of them.

But shouldn't we really be focused on the 8300 SARA, and leave those other discussions for your local broadcast thread? It's really not even an HD topic.

Originally posted by Azlen
Are you refering to the local programming area here or is there another AZ HDTV forum?

There is another: AZ HDTV Forums (http://*******.com/4vxum)

Originally posted by hookbill
Guys...I'm not trying to tell you all what to talk about, I'm not the thread police....:) I thought this thread was for the 8300....SARA.

Now not that I'm not guilty myself, I made an off topic post on the digitals too....actually two of them.

But shouldn't we really be focused on the 8300 SARA, and leave those other discussions for your local broadcast thread? It's really not even an HD topic. That is very true. Had I known initially where he was from, I would have directed him to the Phoenix thread. But, since he asked the question and there is no general topic for the question, I answered as best I could at the time. Plus, I really didn't think about which thread I was in. Anyway, I'll give him the thread link via PM and that should close this off-topic discussion. Okay?

Double DAZ and everyone else you may want to check your To be recorded list for next week. I have a feeling this is a local area problem but the time change has got my shows for next week off by 1 hour, i.e. Law & Order SUV it says to be recorded but at 11:00-12:00. That's not when it's on.

I've had to reschedule all my recordings for next week to make sure there right.

Again, I'm not saying this is really an 8300 issue, but it may be. More then likely its an IPG issue.

Sorry. My original post had a couple of items in it, one of which was the new version upgrade to the 8300 seemed to solve the fast forwarding issue and I threw the Phoenix questions in with it. I will try to behave going forward, but I can't guarantee it. <g>

hookbill, I checked and all mine appear to be correct, both New, Individual, and All, probably because we don't do DST in Arizona. :) I don't have any schedule for This Timeslot.

What I did notice though is that if the timeslot (or even part of it) is part of a scheduled recording, even if that program is not on that week, the IPG still shows the slot in red indicating it is scheduled to be recorded. I noticed this the other day and found it didn't really record the slot. So, it appears that the scheduled recording mechanism reserves the timeslot until the recording is set to begin, perhaps in case there are last minute changes to the IPG.

While we're a bit off-topic, I noticed that the HD flag does not show for the INHD channels even though they are all in HD and they record in HD.

Originally posted by exieramos
Dave,
Check the Cox Cable threads at the HDTV.ForSanDiego site regarding our recent experiences with our FW upgrades over the last week with the most recent being to 1.87.16.1. Could you please verify that (in Phoenix or LV) your "Copy to VCR" feature on the 8300 still produces a clean picture? The new FW may be responsible (here in San Diego) for terrible PQ output when using "Copy to VCR" only. The PQ used to be fine before the upgrade but now seems to have a lot of "Aliasing/Jaggies". Can you or anyone else that just got upgraded to SARA 1.87.16.1 confirm this? Thanks! I agree, I think the PQ is definitely worse than I remember it being. I used to get a very good PQ that was much better than cable analog and now it seems worse than that.

Anyone having a problem with the 8300 resetting everyday? So far, every day since the upgrade to 1.87 I find it reset when I check it in the evening after getting back from work. I have to go back through the setup process to get back to normal.

No problems here, Rod.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
While we're a bit off-topic, I noticed that the HD flag does not show for the INHD channels even though they are all in HD and they record in HD.

I guess they figure since the name of the channel is INHD and everything is in HD there is no need for the flag.

Originally posted by Rod Rebello
Anyone having a problem with the 8300 resetting everyday? So far, every day since the upgrade to 1.87 I find it reset when I check it in the evening after getting back from work. I have to go back through the setup process to get back to normal.


Mine did this until I pulled the plug and let go through power up . Before that when I turned it on the colors were all wrong and it was stuck in 480i mode.

Don

That's ineresting. Some folks over in San Diego were reporting similar problems (and I think they got a fix, though I could be wrong), but mine has worked just fine since the upgrade, 480i, 1080i, etc. I believe the analog channels even look a little better, but the Copy-To-VCR PQ has definitely deteriorated, though I only ran a test for someone who asked about it. The First Run option has worked great and none of my recordings has changed or been lost. I'm not sure how accurate the HD flag is as it's added by the program provider. In fact, vegggas told me this morning that his IPG no longer shows the HD flag, so we're not sure what's going on with that at the moment.

Dave, our fix with the most recent FW (2nd in about a week) took care of the ~110am reboot issue and the lock to HD problem that was added with the first FW push.The flags have been inconsistent here as well.
First FW - 1.87.9.3
Second FW - 1.87.16.1

Originally posted by dbwhite
Mine did this until I pulled the plug and let go through power up . Before that when I turned it on the colors were all wrong and it was stuck in 480i mode.

Thanks - I'll try that if it happens again today.

DEIFan, thanks for the clarification.

Even when powered off, my 8300HD has a high pitched humming sound coming from the unit (not over the speakers). Is this normal? It is not the hard drive.

I suppose it all depends on how loud it is. I can hear a faint, high-pitched hum from mine when I open the cabinet door and get close to the unit, but I can also hear the HDD working. Even with the power off, I believe the HDD is still working and that is probably what you are hearing. If it's loud enough to hear across the room though, it might indicate a problem.

I found another item in the 1.87.16.1 software that appears to be "fixed" (or at least changed).

Let's say you have a New Episode recording (Y&R) scheduled for 11:00-12:00 every day and a One-Time recording (Folks!) scheduled for 10:00-12:00 Thursday morning.

Now, add an All Episodes/Any Timeslot recording (Paula's Home Cooking) for 11:00-11:30 every morning and 3:00-3:30 every afternoon, essentially adding a 3rd program to the 11:00-11:30 Thursday morning slot.

What happens though is that the 3rd recording (Paula's) is added to the schedule, but only for the days/timeslots that do not conflict with the 2 already scheduled recordings. On Thursday, Y&R and Folks! are flagged for recording while Paula's, in the 11:00-11:30 slot, is not.

Unfortunately, if you cancel Folks!, Paula's at 11:00 does not get flagged for recording after-the-fact. I will check to see if it gets flagged sometime between now and when the program airs on Thursday.

Looks like pulling the power fixed my daily reset problem.

Originally posted by Rod Rebello
Looks like pulling the power fixed my daily reset problem.

Glad to hear that. I was watching to see if it did.

Don

Did anyone else have problem relating to the daylight savings time change? I checked yesterday, and all of my recordings were off by an hour. The box would try to record an hour after the program started, see that the right show wasn't on at that time, then record nothing.

We here in Arizona (and a few others that don't change for DST) should have been the only ones who had to change some of our recording settings. All my scheduled recordings for local programs were okay, but I had to reset all my recordings for cable programs. For example, Deadwood used to be on HBO from 10-11 here, but it's now on from 9-10 for us. In your case though, it should have been on at the same time as always and it should have recorded correctly, unless the clock wasn't set right or something. Can you provide a specific program example? Also, what software are you using; SARA/Passport, version number? I'm using SARA 1.87.16.1 that was released here a few weeks ago. It could be an older version had problems with DST, though I can't think of why that might be.

I don't remember my exact SARA version offhand, but it was 1.85.x.x. The clock changed properly, everything in the IPG was listed correctly, but for some reason it wanted to record The Simpsons at 9pm instead of 8pm, even though the IPG had it listed correctly.

Hummm, that is interesting since I presume The Simpsons is on a local channel and the time change should not have affected that at all. It looks like the software adjusted the timeslot by 1 hour even though it shouldn't have had to do anything. I wonder if others with 1.85.x.x software all had the same problem. I didn't notice any other threads about this issue and you are the only one to post so far.

Originally posted by bohbot16
I don't remember my exact SARA version offhand, but it was 1.85.x.x. The clock changed properly, everything in the IPG was listed correctly, but for some reason it wanted to record The Simpsons at 9pm instead of 8pm, even though the IPG had it listed correctly.

I posted a warning on this a few posts back.

Hmm... Maybe it's Adelphia's IPG that is the problem...

One of the features I like best about the 8300 is that I can surf the descriptions of what's on other channels using the arrow keys without having to go to the guide and reduce picture size. If you hold down the key, it will scroll through channels quickly. Does anyone know if the harmony remotes have this same functionality on the 8300 when holding down the arrow key?

I think you just have to push down on the harmony to do this (the down direction of the circular pad in the middle of the 680)

Originally posted by hookbill
I posted a warning on this a few posts back. Yes, you did and I checked mine at the time. However, when I checked again after more days were added to the IPG, I noticed some of the cable recordings were off. This is due to the fact that we don't change times and cable shows are then 1 hour earlier for AZ. I rescheduled things and all was okay. I guess maybe that is why I didn't have any problems with local programs like some of you did. :)

Originally posted by baylorgator
One of the features I like best about the 8300 is that I can surf the descriptions of what's on other channels using the arrow keys without having to go to the guide and reduce picture size. If you hold down the key, it will scroll through channels quickly. Does anyone know if the harmony remotes have this same functionality on the 8300 when holding down the arrow key?

It works like that with my Harmony 659. Holding down the up or down arrow will scroll through the IPG channels quickly. It takes a couple of seconds to kick in; it will go slowly at first and then speed up if you keep the button depressed. Also works the same changing the channels with the Channel Up/Down button.

Also works like that on my 688.

so if i wanna connet this bbox using the componenet output..to a cs2 video processor and then to a crt pj...do i feed them into the progressive inout of the cs2 or the interlaced inpout??

thanks
martin out

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Will, most folks enable 480i so that when they tune to an SD channel, their TV can do the stretch.

And I thought while using the box, using the TVs stretch options was not possible- great tip!!!

My tv has the "smooth wide" option not available thru the cable box, it stretches just the sides of the screen, not the whole picture. I like that as it dosent make everything look "fat".

Originally posted by rkwochoski
It works like that with my Harmony 659. Holding down the up or down arrow will scroll through the IPG channels quickly. It takes a couple of seconds to kick in; it will go slowly at first and then speed up if you keep the button depressed. Also works the same changing the channels with the Channel Up/Down button.


Works with my 680 too

anyone??
martin

Freakin' PVR. For some reason it decided that it really didn't want to record The Simpsons last Sunday (it removed all of my scheduled recordings). Then it decided it didn't want to record Scrubs...good job I have the trusty TiVo backup in the bedroom. What the hell is up with this thing. Argh!!!!

Have you pulled the plug and tried a reboot?

Originally posted by Lampei
Freakin' PVR. For some reason it decided that it really didn't want to record The Simpsons last Sunday (it removed all of my scheduled recordings). Then it decided it didn't want to record Scrubs...good job I have the trusty TiVo backup in the bedroom. What the hell is up with this thing. Argh!!!!

Sounds like you were a victim of Daylight Savings Time. I spotted a problem with my future recordings and had to reset them all.

Strange, this didn't happen when we went from daylight time to regular time.

I know I have stated this before but maybe it needs to be said again. SA boxes are NOT, repeat NOT that reliable for future recordings.

Everyday I go through my previous weeks of recordings to make sure they are going to be recorded. Last night my wife spotted that Survivor was not scheduled. Now that may be related to the Daylight Savings Time bug, but it's not the only time this has happened.

I'll bet I find at least one recording per week that for some reason or another is not recorded. And if a show like Boston Legal goes off the air for a couple of weeks don't count on it to be there when it comes back on.

Maybe I'm spoiled because I use to have a D-TiVo, or maybe I'm right and the reality is that the SA 8300 and all their predicessors are really not that great. I really think that outside of their HD capability they arn't much more then glorified VCR's.

DoubleDAZ, you may have the floor now.:)

I'm no DoubleDaz, but I have to admit that I have never once had any glitch or bug in recording with my SA8300HD on Time Warner.

The only feature I sorely miss when watching a show, not being able to record it from the beginning even though I am partially through it. It is on the hard disk somewhere in some buffer - why can't it dump the buffer and give it an address? I can rewind to the beginning, so I know it's there.

I do hope that the Comcast-Tivo deal will force other cable co's to either get SA on the stick or strike their own deals with Tivo.

Well, this will be a good test because Boston Legal will be coming back on soon. I have yet to miss a recording or have it deleted from the schedule because it was not on for a long time. I had Carnivale and Deadwood scheduled since last season and they picked right up when the new season started and I expect the same from The Sopranos schedule I still have.

The only thing I can figure as to why one machine doesn't miss and mine does is the software. Maybe the IPG. Something interesting I saw this morning. Revelations is going in The West Wings spot next Wednesday. It was highlighted red on the IPG. Now I know the 8300 won't record that even though it looks like it's going to. I want to record Revelations. Because I have two programs scheduled at the same time it wouldn't let me do a manual recording, so I had to cancel The West Wing in order to record Revelations because the 8300 thinks it's a third recording.

This is something I really don't understand. What does the 8300 key into? I mean when you set it to record, all shows, time slot it certainly does. I see 3 recordings of 24 scheduled for this week (one on Sunday). So there is some type of name recognition. I know it will highlight a show that may replace a show temporarily.

DoubleDAZ, on Boston Legal did you record that other show that ABC introduced in that time slot? Grays Anatomy?

The Revelations thing has been covered before, when we were discussing Billionaire. Unfortunately, you have to cancel West Wing, like you did, in order to record Revelations. It is certainly a hassle to have to delete scheduled recordings to record something else in the timeslot, but what else are you going to do?

I miss-spoke about Boston Legal and now I don't know what I was thinking about, sorry. Then, too, I was messing around, cleaning out my schedule, was tired, and ended up deleting all my old ones even though I wanted to keep some. So now I'll have to do some more testing to see if I lose schedules and at what point. :(

Missed Lost last night :(

I just assumed it would record the way it has for the past few months.

Free,

How do you have it scheduled? This Timeslot? Any Timeslot? New First Run Episodes? And when did you set it up?

The only thing I can think of that would cause it to skip an episode is This Timeslot. Lost changes length almost every week, 1:03 one week, 1:02 the next week, etc. Next week it happens to be 1:01.

I used to have mine set for Any Timeslot to compensate for the changes, but now I have it set for New First Run Episodes and it is flagged to record next week for the 1:01 duration.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I used to have mine set for Any Timeslot to compensate for the changes, but now I have it set for New First Run Episodes and it is flagged to record next week for the 1:01 duration.
Of course next week is not a new episode.:confused:

For some reason my 8300HD decided that it would no longer record 24 starting this week. Luckily I check my scheduled recordings on a daily basis also. I have it set up as a "New First Run Episodes" recording which has been scheduled since the "New" flag was introduced a month or so ago.

I also had a problem setting up a recording for Tru Calling which replaced Point Pleasant on Thursdays. All of my recordings are set up as "New First Run" only so I am not sure why SA has to flag the time-slot to record when the show isn't even scheduled to air. Seems more confusing to me.

As far as Daylight Savings Time, all my scheduled shows that are not new this week show up scheduled one hour later than they should, and the guide shows red for those time-slots. This means that I can't record any show that comes on after one of these scheduled shows without canceling the repeat recording. I can't believe that this is the way that SA designed this to work.

DR

Just an fyi, I noticed that Boston Legal is still on my "to be recorded" with a date next to it in March, so I assume the 8300 will pick it up when it comes around again.

Yes, cancelling and rescheduling is a MAJOR hassle, and I know I shouldn't do this but TiVo is just so much more sophisticated in these areas. I remember once when Bush scheduled a speech for the evening in the afternoon and by the time I went to my TiVo schedule to make adjustments it had already done so.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that has a problem with programs being recorded like they should. 3 times in the past month the 8300 had dropped 24 from my schedule. I had to get a DVD copy of that episode from a nice person on the TiVo boards.

My 8300 only recorded 40 minutes of Alias on Wednesday! What a major PITA this thing is. I have started checking my recordings daily and verified that Alias was set up correctly and even went so far as to make sure that it started recording at the correct time. Once I was sure the recording was on and working I left the room. Came back last night to watch it and only 40 minutes were recorded :mad: . I checked the HD space and was only using 54%. What the heck is up with that? Why in the world would the show just stop recording?

Russell

I guess I'd make a bundle of money if I could figure out why some folks are having so much trouble with recordings. I've had "24" set to record since forever and it's never missed or shorted. The only time I've missed part of an episode of any program is when it started late because of a basketball game, etc. To make up for the time, I simply recorded the next program to catch the end. Not sure why a recording would stop 40 minutes in unless there was a reset or some such signal sent by the cableco. That is one of the frustrating parts of all this, one never knows what is being set and when. I believe troubleshooting is all but impossible because of this.

I'm come to the (rather sad) conclusion that they only way to get these boxes 100% reliable is to always only program that weeks worth of shows. Make a list on paper, program them all Sunday afternoon each week.

If you think about it, I bet it takes less time than going back and double checking and cancelling and redoing reoccuring recordings!

I've found that the best thing for me is to check the upcoming recordings every day either before work or right when I get home.

Originally posted by kromkamp
I'm come to the (rather sad) conclusion that they only way to get these boxes 100% reliable is to always only program that weeks worth of shows. Make a list on paper, program them all Sunday afternoon each week.

If you think about it, I bet it takes less time than going back and double checking and cancelling and redoing reoccuring recordings!

And I can't agree with you more about how sad that is! Being a former TiVo owner I find these machines so dissapointing.

I just heard today on my local thread that Adelphia has been bought by both Time Warner and Comcast. I want the TiVo service that Comcast will have, but I've heard their customer service is as bad as Adelphia. I have no idea how they will split the company up, but I have a feeling that we will get Time Warner since they seem to be the prominent cable company in the area.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Free,

How do you have it scheduled? This Timeslot? Any Timeslot? New First Run Episodes? And when did you set it up?

The only thing I can think of that would cause it to skip an episode is This Timeslot. Lost changes length almost every week, 1:03 one week, 1:02 the next week, etc. Next week it happens to be 1:01.

I used to have mine set for Any Timeslot to compensate for the changes, but now I have it set for New First Run Episodes and it is flagged to record next week for the 1:01 duration.

Dave, It didn't skip an episode, it cancelled my scheduled recordings for both Lost and Survivor. All the other recordings remain intact, including those on the same networks. There is really no reason those two weekly recordings should have been cancelled.

I have decided that trying to figure out why the 8300HD does things, is like trying to understand a crazy person :(

Ok, I think I may have to switch out my SA box for a new one. My problem is with the video. No matter what I'm watching, be it an SD channel, a digital channel, an HD channel, or a recording, I get this flash where the picture "splits" in two for a fraction of a second. I don't know how else to describe it.

It comes and goes with no set pattern. I have the box hooked up through the DVI connection, which I checked to see if the cable was loose. I have a splitter that splits the signal to the TV directly and to the TiVo. I don't see this artificat when I view through those, and it has only started for the last month or so. I can still view the shows, but it sometimes distracting to get a flash of the video acting up.

Do you think I should just switch out the box? Or does anybody have any suggestions to see if there is anything else I can troubleshoot first?

TiVo Daddy you might try trouble shooting with component cable. Either way it should work with your DVI/HDMI connector. If you don't have the problem with component then I might think theres a problem with the DVI/HDMI.

Of course I'm not a cable tech.:) And box replacement is no charge.

Free, I can certainly agree with that sentiment and it's even worse when I'm not experiencing the problems but still trying to help troubleshoot.

One thing I'd like to ask everyone who is having these difficulties (lost/cancelled recordings), how many recordings do you have scheduled at any given time? I currently have 30 weeklies, 3 dailies, and only 5 individuals for a total of 74 recordings in the current que. Of course, the numbers vary from time to time, but I doubt my weeklies get over 40, the dailies may reach 5-7, and the individuals could get up to 10 or so, especially during the summer when I tend to watch more movies. Maybe there is a finite limit or something.

The other thing I'm wondering is what happens when 3 recordings inadvertently get scheduled for the same timeslot. It seems like this could happen when setting up All Episode/Any Timeslot recordings for programs and I think vegggas or someone mentioned some hierarchy, or maybe that was with Tivo.

At any rate, I have a weekly recording scheduled for Numb3rs along with one for L&O:Trial By Jury. Since Numb3rs is a repeat tonight, I just set up a recording for Monk, All Episodes/Any Timeslot, on UHD. The Numb3rs timeslot is flagged for recording, as is L&O, as is Monk, all 3 for the same timeslot. I'm sure it will record L&O and Monk this week, but what will happen next week when Numb3rs is not a repeat? Unfortunately I won't find out because Monk is not on at that time next week. :(

That just goes to show how hard it is to set some of this up to troubleshoot, though with some effort I might be able to find other programs to work with, but just don't have the time right now.

I can tell you ver batum that my shows that fail to record are not of the 3 recordings at the same time variety. Yes, this certainly can happen, but since I review all of my recordings I make sure it doesn't.

One of the ways I do that is take a show like Deadwood. If I set it to record at time/station, I could end up with multiple recordings and even a 3 show type recording possibility. As I'm sure everyone is aware, when that happens nothing gets recorded.

I think a great deal of the problem has to do with the cable company, and also how things appear on the IPG. In my area we do not get a repeat flag, so I can't set up for first run only.

While I can't say exactly how many shows I record as a rough estimate I would say I have about 30 to 40 shows per week. But how many shows your recording should not be an issue. I also don't believe that how much disk space you have left should or for that matter even is an issue. A hard drive that's able to take 40 standard programing and 20 HD should do just that.

Fact is that SA in itself is the low end of the food chain line in HD recording. From what I understand Comcast HD recorder is even superior to anything SA puts out.

DoubleDAZ and anyone who doesn't experience these problems, you are sure lucky.

the dvr forget to record...but i think that had something to do with trying it the day before and there was no space..so i guess it gets amnesia for the next recording...

i think...

martin

Hookbill, my concern is that I WILL experience those problems sooner or later. I'd be willing to agree that a specific cableco (via IPG or something) could cause some of these problems, but I can't see what they could do to cause all of them in individual boxes. Until recently I was running version 1.85.14.1 (or something close to that) and also didn't have the First Run flag, I still didn't have the problems. But, I think it may only be because I haven't hit on the right combination of circumstances and it has to be more than just the luck of the draw.

As a former programmer, I know things don't just happen. Software is pretty much just a series of questions with Y or N answers and different paths to take based upon those answers. SA didn't design the software to work the way it is for some of you, but I don't think they did a very good job of coding for the unexpected. If you tend to treat the 8300 (et al) like a glorified VCR, I think the problems are minimized. But if, like most of us, you try to do what you think should be possible, then the software can go haywire and you end up with lost recordings, etc.

Since I think Free and I are on the same cable system here in Phoenix, there has to be a problem with something besides the software and IPG. If Lost gets recorded by my 8300, it should get recorded by his. If they send a code down the line to his 8300, the same code should be sent to mine, etc.

I assume it is possible that a flaky 8300 could result in these sorts of problems and I may simply be lucky with the one I have. That thought seems to be bolstered by the fact that there aren't more complaints about the same problem here. I don't know how many members we have in our AZ HDTV Forum or in the Phoenix thread here that are using the 8300 with Cox Cable, but I have to assume there are more than the 2 of us and most probably record Lost each week. Even in this thead, the actual number of folks reporting the same problem seems pretty small given the overall number of 8300 users that post and that leads me to believe it may just be an individual box problem of some sort.

I was really surprised to see that Lost was, well.. Lost last week. It was rock solid for the past three months, which is why I missed it all together. After I saw that Lost dissapeared from scheduled recordings, I went in and discovered that Survivor was gone as well.

I still have all CSI versions, LV, NY, Miami, ready to record, and a couple other shows. Most I have set to record on my HD Tivo as well, but I don't get ABC HD on D* so I didn't have a back up. Fortunately I read opinons that it was sort of a lousy episode :)

Ok guys I have a quick question. I have a tosh 52" DLP. And I only have it hooked up through component inputs to my receiver. I could hook it up with s video or composite, but it will still go to my tv through component cables(video up conversion...or something like that). I am very new to the whole HD world.

I guess my question is, should I set the output for the cable box for everything ie. 480i/p, 720p and 1080i or only 720p, which is what my tv supports natively. My thinking is that since my TV is going to upconvert/downconvert any signal to 720p anyways, why not make it a little easier on the tv.

If I understand it correctly...if I have set to upconvert 2, all 480i rez's will be converted to 480p, then my tv will convert it to 720p.

Also, I dont think you can use the the stretch mode on some settings. And thats a pain in the butt for me, especially when Im switching between analog, digital and HD channels.

I guess if you guys could, just tell me exactly what I need to set what on, and then just leave it there. (also do you think I should hook up an S video cable from my cable box to my receiver too, I just got a new Denon 1905 receiver...and in the past month got the HD cable box and HD DLP...so Im still a newbie at all this!)

I too, have never had any major problems recording, even when trying to get it to fail during early specific beta testing. I've never used any manual recordings, and all recordings have been done by selecting the program in the guide and pressing the select button to choose the recording style. The only known problem recording was with Idol, where they shifted the times every day.
Here is what I know and I think should be common knowledge:
Shows like LOST, Alias, etc are being sent by the networks to cover MULTIPLE timeslots to purposely confuse DVRs and edge out other networks. If the recording time goes beyond the xx:29 or xx:59 mark, then it will grab the next time slot, thereby eliminating the competing networks start of recording, which actually cancels it. In this scenario, there are usually multiple recordings scheduled for the the same timeslot, which can't be done. If the recordings are Forced by a ALL EPISODES ANY or ALL EPISODES THIS TIMESLOT, then it could gets canceled if there is a conflict. The more you adjust and change your recordings, the more potential problems could arise. You can't KNOWINGLY set up three recordings at once, but as the programming changes, things get shifted around and cause problems, especially if the time gets adjusted each week by the networks. As things are shifted and three recordings happen at once, it usually dumps the current and future recordings of those shows to avoid the conflicts. SA could really use a priority feature, but since the IPG data is limited, it may not work very well.
The 8300 DVR is actually a great piece of hardware. The limiting factor is that it has to use the local IPG to do the recording. If you compare that to Tivo, it has the same limitations. Imagine if you could not connect and get the data for the area you are in. My Father in Law, who lives in the sticks, has that problem. He has a local no name cable company with a few hundred customers, sorta like a co-op cable co with a shared antenna. The Zipcode info has another cableco across the lake that the numbers don't match up. There is NO data available for his "system" of 25 channels, so every feature of his Tivo is not available, except manual VCR recording. To him, Tivo is as useless as anything but a digital VCR that can hold more than 6 or 8 hours of programs.

SR Immortal,
Only the component or HDMI connections are HD. All other connections are SD. I would enable all resolutions in the setup guide and see how your TV handles them, then decide what looks best and what is easiest to for you to use. If Passthrough is available, I would use that if you like to get the best PQ all the time, but a single fixed resolution may be preferred for speed and ease of use. YMMV. Try it and see.

vegggas

Originally posted by SR Immortal
Ok guys I have a quick question.There is no such thing in the world of HDTV. :)
I guess my question is, should I set the output for the cable box for everything.......why not make it a little easier on the tv.If you enable all formats, the TV will receive signals in the original format and your TV will do the format conversions. However, each time you scroll through channels, your TV will "flash" whenever you tune to a channel in a different format and this can get distracting very fast. The "flash" occurs because the TV is reformatting 480i/p or 1080i to 720p for display.

Most folks experiment with all formats, but very few are able to see much, if any, difference when enabling them all vs just enabling the native one for your TV (720p in your case). However, if you can see a real difference and are willing to put up with the flash effect, by all means enable as many formats as you like. Most folks enable 480i and either 720p or 1080i. The 480i allows most TVs to stretch the SD channels while minimizing the flash effect.
If I understand it correctly...if I have set to upconvert 2, all 480i rez's will be converted to 480p, then my tv will convert it to 720p.That may be true for your DLP, but many RPTVs display both 480i (for SD) and 1080i (for HD).
Also, I don't think you can use the the stretch mode on some settings. And thats a pain in the butt for me, especially when I'm switching between analog, digital and HD channels.Basically, you only switch between SD (analog and digital) and HD. If you enable 480i, your TV should be able to stretch the SD channels. Assuming you have an SA8300HD, it can stretch HD channels.
do you think I should hook up an S video cable from my cable box to my receiver too?I don't know of any reason in your case to also connect via S-Video. In fact, connecting Component from the cable box to the Denon to the TV in the first place simply adds a needless set of connections and extra Component cable vs connecting from the cable box straight to the TV. I have a Denon 3803 and only run the audio through it, the video goes straight to my TV. Putting the Denon in the video mix just adds another set of connections to worry about and troubleshoot when video problems come up.

The bottomline is don't be afraid to experiment. Enable all formats and check the PQ. Then disable them one by one and see if you notice any difference. Also, if you are not using the Denon as a Component switcher for cable and DVD, etc., you might want to consider connecting the cable box directly to the TV and checking the PQ. If there is no difference and you prefer the Denon in the video mix, then simply add it back in.

vegggas, I too think many problems are the result of the changing timeslots, caused mostly by Lost. For that reason, I take great care to avoid adding a potential 3rd recording to the 8:00-9:00 MST timeslot on Wednesday nights. ER presents similar problems because it oftentimes starts early. The First Run flag has actually added to the problem because using that option provides less visibility of the 3rd recordings (repeats are not flagged in the IPG).

For example, last night I had 2 New First Run recordings scheduled. Since one of the those was a repeat, I was able to add a 3rd All Episodes/Any Timeslot recording. Last night the correct 2 programs were recorded, but I suspect at some point there will be the conflict you mentioned. If I read your post correctly, you seemed to say all 3 will get deleted and if I'm not paying attention, I'd suspect the 8300 messed up. It's fairly easy to troubleshoot this sort of thing on my system, but it's very difficult when it's someone else's system and you have no way of knowing exactly what was scheduled, what options were used, etc.

Well I just bought a new HT setup and my center channel blocks the TV power button...so I cant use the TV remote. By running everything through the receiver, I just have to manually turn the tv on and then I can do everything from the receiver. I didnt see any PQ loss running everything through the receiver either. I thought that because Denon's receivers have 100mhz of (I guess) bandwith to send the component signal, there would be no signal degredation.

I guess I dont know if I should trust a $500 receiver to do the video switching or a $2000 TV.

SR, there's is nothing inherently wrong with the setup the way it is and you certainly have a valid reason for doing it that way, so don't worry about it. Obviously you've checked the PQ, so at least you know you aren't losing anything. I just wanted to make sure you knew that it didn't have to be connected that way unless there was a specific reason for doing so. Many folks new to HD/HT want to run everything through their receivers, since they generally spent a good amount of money on them, and don't know that it doesn't have to be done that way. Oftentimes it just adds to the number of cables/connections, though it does minimize the number of cables to the TV and sometimes that is reason enough. The main thing is to connect both ways to ensure there is no PQ degradation.

For what it's worth, I have my box set to 480p, 1080i, and 720p. It could be my imagination but I think the pq on SD channels looks a bit better on 480p. I use both 1080i and 720p because I would rather just have my set convert the signal as opposed to the box converting. Does it make a difference? Probably not, but I feel more comfortable with it that way.:)

so folks..why cant i feed a progressive component inpout into my cs2 video proccor and then to the crt barco via rbg..it just doesnt work...no matter what resolution...does anyone have any idea of what i am doing wrong here??

Barco 801S, centerstage cs2 w/sdi video processor, also have an X1 infocus dlp pj..right now the cs2 is conneted to the sa8300hd via svideo...i want the componenet to work but it doesnt.

anyhow

thanks
Martin

Originally posted by SR Immortal
Well I just bought a new HT setup and my center channel blocks the TV power button...so I cant use the TV remote.
If your want to use your tv remote, you could get something like this at http://www.smarthome.com/8225p.html to reroute the IR signal to the TV sensor.

Originally posted by hookbill
TiVo Daddy you might try trouble shooting with component cable. Either way it should work with your DVI/HDMI connector. If you don't have the problem with component then I might think theres a problem with the DVI/HDMI.

Of course I'm not a cable tech.:) And box replacement is no charge.
So do you want to start a life as a cable tech? :)

I have no video problem with component out. I hooked up the DVI/HDMI connector again, and saw the video glitch. Must be something either with the connector or the HDMI-out on the cable box. I can live with component video though. Thanks hookbill. :up:

I have an SA8300HD from Charter Communications in Burbank, CA and I'm attempting to attach a JVC HM-DH4000U via Firewire but I cannot seem to get this to work. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

I don't believe Firewire is active yet on the 8300s. We have to use the 3250 here if we want Firewire connections.

Awesome! Tonight I had Desperate Housewives scheduled (it even showed up under scheduled recordings), but the 8300 decided "ah, I don't *really* want to record that show"...so it didn't :( Damnit! I've restarted, unplugged, and done just about everything I can think of to stop this from happening, but no such luck. At least it recorded Simpsons tonight.

So, Desperate Housewives took three half hour timeslots. 9:00 - 9:30, 9:30 - 10:00, & 10:00 - 10:30 (for E&W timezones) due to ABC making it go OVER it's normal timeslot by 2 minutes. This means that only ONE other program could be recorded starting in ANY of those timeslots. If a third program was scheduled, due to a specific, or all episodes query, it would have knocked it'self out and the first program scheduled, even if the other program was scheduled for a 10:00 start time. If you manually set a recording from 10:00 - 11:00 ON THE SAME CHANNEL (Gray's Anatomy), it would conflict with Desperate Housewives (set to run until 10:01) and BOTH would be canceled. If another program was scheduled to start at 10:00, that would most likely be the culprit.
What time was your Simpsons scheduled to be recorded (8:00 - 8:30?)?
What ELSE happened to be scheduled to record at any of those times? You may have an orphaned recording on another channel that is conflicting and causing a problem.

vegggas

Only things that were recorded for me last night were...

Simpsons (8-8:30)
Arrested Development (8:30-9)
Law and Order: CI (9-10)

Other than that, it apparently thought I was watching too much TV (as nothing else conflicted).

Unless it was Boston Legal (which apparently is held up until the fall) that it felt was conflicting with it.

You did have two confirmed things scheduled for the 9:00 - 10:00 timeslot.
Law & Order did record at that time, right?
Desperate Housewives did not.
Are you 100% absolutely sure that you did not have a manual recording taking place at that time (this timeslot, on this channel - Boston Legal would have done this too), or another program that may have happened to try to record at or around these times? It sounds like a conflict is bieng generated there.
I would CLEAN out all recordings (write existing ones down), then do a hard power reboot & download (see first post) and then insert them from the IPG only. The IPG allows for conflict management and can see when things are going to mess up. A manual recording will not be able to see a conflict that would cause this.
The only reason for a dropped recording is from a conflict, or if the tuner is in use i.e someone was watching another channel and cancelled the prompt to change channels. Wiping out all recordings and starting fresh would eliminate the chance of a conflict, and the hard reboot (pull and reinsert the power while holding in the power button), would clear out the cache and reset both tuners.

vegggas

Nope, I have zero manual recordings. Those were the only 2 things set to record at 9.

Hello everyone,

-Begin Rant-
Well, thank you all (especially Free & Hookbill) for helping my sanity. This 8300HD has been a real pain in the butt compared to the Tivo. Now look, I'm not expecting miracles here, but WOW! Talk about not ready for prime time. The people at Tivo all deserve to be multi-millionaires. That thing is light years ahead of it's time. SO simple that a 2 year old can program it, and remarkably reliable. CONSIDER this! The damn DVR is also the cabble box.... the programming should be flawless! Tivo had to synch it's guide with the local cable companies, then switch channels with it's cheezy IR blaster and it was STILL infinitely more reliable than this @#$% thing!
-End Rant-

Complaints aside, here's my question: Yes, I've been bitten by whatever the latest 8300HD/ Adelphia (NH) disease is- my programs that have been working for months, are now going haywire. Even some programs that appear to be correct in "scheduled recordings" don't record. Simpsons up and changed timeslots on me (from 8 to 9pm) I missed LOST, Apprentice, Survivor, Contender, etc. last week. The odd constant has been my wife's soap opera, which is on every day. ??

I tried the old unplug, 3 minute wait, replug trick. I'm not positive of my SARA version, I believe it's 1.87.xxx

Holy cow this is annoying! I realize that there isn't much we can do until the next firmware upgrade or perhaps Adelphia programming upgrade. I give a hearty welcome to Comcast and their Tivo partnership (coming late 2006). I can say with confidence I will be one of the 1st people camping out in their office when Comcast/Tivo DVR's are available.

-J

Originally posted by Lampei
Nope, I have zero manual recordings. Those were the only 2 things set to record at 9.
Try my suggestion, CLEAN OUT everything, and then do a hard reboot. Then put your scheduled recordings backk in from the guide only. In the ten minutes it may take to do this, your problems could all be gone.

tattooedbones - Same goes for you. A three minute unplug doesn't do much, if anything at all. To do a reboot, you have to unplug the unit, then hold the power button in, while putting the power cord back in. Continue holding the power button for about 10-15 seconds, until it has said boot and it makes it's circle.

vegggas

tattooedbones,
I had the same problem and was able to fix it by selecting each show in the IPG then setting up its recording schedule. It automatically removed the entries that were trying to record an hour late.
I hope our next cable company does better with the IPG than Adelphia has.

I haven't read through this entire thread recently but I am wondering if there have been any fixes for the following problems. As a former TiVo user, these are the most frustrating for me:

1) Can't watch a recorded program from the beginning if its still recording that program. If I click play the program, it jumps to live tv on that show and I have to rewind to the beginning (while closing my eyes so I don't see anything I don't want to!)

2) While watching a recorded show that is still recording (after doing the above), when the show ends, it jumps to live tv. I can't stand this. Several times its ruined a show for me!

3) Lack of tick marks to quickly skip forward or backward while fast forwarding and rewinding.

These problems have to do with general usability while timeshifting. Certainly better tools for selecting recording programs would be nice. But its the usability that makes me want to throw this thing through the window much of the time. Luckily the picture is beautiful which tends to calm my nerves a bit.

With all the semi-bogus software patents out there, perhaps SA can't make things too TiVo-like without risking royalty payments.

Lucky for me, I never had a TiVo to remember fondly...

appelm,

1. Not yet.

2. Not yet.

3. Never gonna happen.

Originally posted by Lampei
Nope, I have zero manual recordings. Those were the only 2 things set to record at 9. In one of his posts, vegggas said "Are you 100% absolutely sure that you did not have a manual recording taking place at that time (this timeslot, on this channel - Boston Legal would have done this too)"

I believe you said you had Law & Order AND Boston Legal set to record from 9:00-10:00. Even though Boston Legal wasn't one, the slot is still reserved until the hour is reached and the 8300 determines that the requested program is not on. Since Desperate Housewives doesn't end until AFTER 9:00, you have the conflict vegggas mentioned and that is why Desperate Housewives didn't record. While SA will certainly fix this at some point, the real culprit is ABC/NBC and their constant airing of programs outside the traditional start/end times on the hour. As a former programmer, I'm not sure I would have coded for this, but I will admit I would have fixed it by now. :)

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
In one of his posts, vegggas said "Are you 100% absolutely sure that you did not have a manual recording taking place at that time (this timeslot, on this channel - Boston Legal would have done this too)"

I believe you said you had Law & Order AND Boston Legal set to record from 9:00-10:00. Even though Boston Legal wasn't one, the slot is still reserved until the hour is reached and the 8300 determines that the requested program is not on. Since Desperate Housewives doesn't end until AFTER 9:00, you have the conflict vegggas mentioned and that is why Desperate Housewives didn't record. While SA will certainly fix this at some point, the real culprit is ABC/NBC and their constant airing of programs outside the traditional start/end times on the hour. As a former programmer, I'm not sure I would have coded for this, but I will admit I would have fixed it by now. :)

Dave, this depends on the IPG. In my area the IPG has Desperate Housewives for 1:02 and Boston Legal (or Gray's Anatomy) at :58. Therefore I never get this conflict. I'm able to record Law & Order, CI as well as Crossing jordan and the other two shows.

Originally posted by hookbill
Dave, this depends on the IPG. In my area the IPG has Desperate Housewives for 1:02 and Boston Legal (or Gray's Anatomy) at :58. Therefore I never get this conflict. I'm able to record Law & Order, CI as well as Crossing jordan and the other two shows. Good point, hookbill, my IPG is usually up-to-date like that too and I also don't get a conflict in those instances. A lot depends on how a recording is scheduled and how accurate the IPG is.

FWIW, I've been having a heck of a time trying to get a "clean" recording of Roy Orbison's Black & White Night (even though I have the DVD), but INHD2 keeps insisting that the program is exactly 1 hour long (and that is what is in the IPG) when it actually goes over few minutes.

Unlike some though, I understand that this is not the fault of the 8300, but is the fault of whomever submitted the program data. I could rant until I'm blue in the face, call SA a bunch of names, threaten Cox Cable, and go shopping for one of those $1,000 HD Tivos (and still not get it to record 1:10 when the IPG shows 1:00), but although I'm way past 2 years old, I can enter a manual recording for an hour and a half to make sure I catch it all. :)

Thanks for the responses. I will try both the power switch/reboot method as well as just ditching all of my programs and starting from scratch.

Sigh, you would think having an integrated box from the cable company, using their own programming would be MORE stable than a 3rd party service and hardware, like Tivo. Well, I guess I should consider myself lucky that I can at least record football in HD this whole season. Of couse this year the Superbowl was broken into countless 3 and 12 minute chunks, to the point where I ditched recording and just watched it live.

Appelm- your complaints are valid and I share them with you. I guess the people at SA have never seen a Tivo before. You'd think they would at least get some ideas from it as far as the features to develop. It's a new concept that I like to call "market research".

Well, it's flaky at best, but it's better than nothing.

Originally posted by tattooedbones

Well, it's flaky at best, but it's better than nothing.

That's what I've felt since I first got an SA product. In time you'll learn to live with it.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Unlike some though, I understand that this is not the fault of the 8300, but is the fault of whomever submitted the program data. I could rant until I'm blue in the face, call SA a bunch of names, threaten Cox Cable, and go shopping for one of those $1,000 HD Tivos (and still not get it to record 1:10 when the IPG shows 1:00), but although I'm way past 2 years old, I can enter a manual recording for an hour and a half to make sure I catch it all. :)

If you go to the TiVo boards you will see plenty of people upset with not TiVo but the networks for not giving the proper data for their recorded shows (NBC in particular).

Still SA IMHO does have quite a few short comings. But hey, it's only 8 bucks a month, it beats shelling out a grand for a single tuner TiVo.:)

You just gotta watch the darn thing to make sure it works right.

It's no secret that some cableco's had some problems as a result of the switch to DST. Ditching your current schedule may be the only way to resolve your problems, but continuing to harp about Tivo in this SA8300HD Tips & Tricks thread will not help you.

For the record, there is no such thing as an integrated box from the cableco. These boxes are offered by SA for cableco use and they are working very hard to get the software running on the myriad of hardware and IPG databases used around the country. If some of you newbies think this is such an easy task, I invite you to apply for the job at SA and fix this stuff so it meets your expectations. Otherwise, please deal with it and quit talking about Tivo already. We've been there and done that and we simply don't care! We're happy to be able to affordably record HD and most of us do not have many (any) problems at all. We also understand that there are indeed copyrights, etc., involved in the software and we know enhancements are in the works, but first things first.

Also, if you thing Tivo is so perfect, I invite you to visit the Tivo forums and extoll it's virtues there, don't hijack my thread, thank you very much.

Dave,

Well put. I think that needs to be said every now and them.

:D

remeber people:
---You can only do (2) two concurent recordings in any time slot!!!

there are two tuners in the sa8300hd...

Martin


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Barco 801S, Centerstage CS2 w/SDi,Infocus X1,SA8300HD DVR/STB,AMD64 HTPC/HCPC, kenwood vr8070 receiver and the rest of the audio system is also kenwood!!! (looking for a standalone dvdplayer to modify with SDI...)
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I think everyone knows that. The problem is the software will let you inadvertently schedule more than 2 programs for the same timeslot and that causes problems from time to time for some users. Mind you, it doesn't let you do this on purpose, but by using the All Episodes/Any Timeslot options, etc., you can end up with 3 or more recordings scheduled for the same time (as schedules change) and oftentimes this results in lost recordings.

The software does not flag these conflicts and you have to stay on top of things manually. If the software had a priority scheme designed in (like I believe Tivo does) to handle these conflicts, those folks who get upset might be able to deal with things a little better. Those of us who don't retain outdated schedules and don't do a lot of All Episodes/Any Timeslot recordings, don't seem to have the same problems as others.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I think everyone knows that. The problem is the software will let you inadvertently schedule more than 2 programs for the same timeslot and that causes problems from time to time for some users. Mind you, it doesn't let you do this on purpose, but by using the All Episodes/Any Timeslot options, etc., you can end up with 3 or more recordings scheduled for the same time (as schedules change) and oftentimes this results in lost recordings.

The software does not flag these conflicts and you have to stay on top of things manually. If the software had a priority scheme designed in (like I believe Tivo does) to handle these conflicts, those folks who get upset might be able to deal with things a little better. Those of us who don't retain outdated schedules and don't do a lot of All Episodes/Any Timeslot recordings, don't seem to have the same problems as others.

True. But that statement begs the question, "why not?"

Dave, as a programmer yourself you understand the principles of yes and no answers. It seems to me that this conflict could be resolved by putting in an appropriate answer for this type of situation. Now I'm not trying to bash SA, really, I just don't understand why simple things like this arn't taking care of.

Edited to add: My wife is an IT manager with a BS in Computer Sciences and she says she thinks this can be resolved easily.

I'm just a self educated geek.:)

hookbill, I'm sure it can be fixed, I just think their plate is full trying to migrate to a system that will work on all cable systems. I also believe there is a significant lack of documentation regarding just what can and cannot be done. But, be that as it may, let's take a better look at it just for the sake of discussion.

As I see it, problems are caused by 2 things; using the First Run option to inadvertently set up 3 or more recordings for the same slot, or by using the All Episodes/Any Timeslot option to do the same thing.

Let's outline the First Run option.

Say you schedule recordings for Program A on NBC and Program B on ABC, both New Episode recordings in the 8:00-9:00 slot. Then say that Program B is a repeat tonight, so you schedule a recording for Program C on CBS, also a New Episode/same slot. Since Program B is a repeat, there is no conflict and the software allows 3 recordings for the same slot. (I think I just did that today with Everwood, 24, and Las Vegas, though I won't know until Apr 25*).

But, what happens when Program B comes back on with a new episode? What do you want the software to do?

I don't know the answer to the first question, but (based upon comments by vegggas) I gather that either 2 of the 3 shows will record based upon which ones were scheduled first, or none will record because of the conflict. Either way, I won't get overly upset and extole the virtues of Tivo in this (my) thread. :)

As to the second question, I don't really care, but I would like them to document whatever it does so we all know what to expect. The part about all this that I find frustrating is having to figure out on my own (or with everyone's help) just what happens and then I have to deal with the Tivo-lover's who won't spend the money on the HD Tivo and constantly rant. It gets old and I try very hard to ignore it, but that doesn't seem to work. :)

Ideally, I suppose I'd like to be able to set a priority myself, but I'd be happy if it just used the date the recordings were scheduled to resolve any conflicts. I suppose it could also display a message indicating there is a conflict and make you cancel one, but then they'd still have to decide what to do if you are not there at the time, which is the whole point to time-shifting. :)

The All Episodes/Any Timeslot option basically results in the same problem, only it is due to shifting schedules and you generally have no idea there will be a conflict at some point. The solution tends to be the same.

The real problem as I see it is that things don't happen the way some folks expect them too or the way they happen with Tivo. Granted, Tivo is the leader in this area, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to toe the line. The only reason Tivo is now shaking hands with cableco's is because of problems, financial or otherwise.

My gut feeling now says that there will be plenty of posts outlining different solutions and this is what programmers hate the most. There is a finite space for program instructions, etc., and I don't know where they stand. There are also multiple IPG databases that have to be considered, though I have no idea just how much they actually vary. One thing I can almost guarantee is that no matter what SA eventually does (unless it mirrors Tivo) someone will not like it and will again bash them in this and other threads.

As for how hard it is, no one, degree or not, can say unless they can look at the code, the data, and the systems this stuff has to work on. It sounds simple enough to me too, but experience tells me there is a lot more involved than just adding a few lines of code. For all we know, the code is already in there (just as the First Run option stuff was) and is just not working the way it should. I'm sure if all they ahd to do was fix this one problem it would be easy, but you and I both know they are working on much more and just about the time they fix this, the cableco's will start rolling out a new IPG (which is rumored) and for all I know that is what they are working toward in the first place.

Look, none of this is new information. We've been dealing with these concerns for some time and they are getting resolved, albeit slowly in our collective opinions. Trying to understand how stuff works is one thing and I try my best to help explain what I think happens when things go amok, but it gets kind of tiring trying to help someone who obviously doesn't want help but just wants to complain. I don't need a paragraph on how good Tivo is for me to explain why someone might have missed a recording. I also don't need a paragraph on Tivo when someone appears to be unwilling to take our advice on what they can do to minimize their problems.

There has to be a reason why vegggas, I, and others don't run into these problems. I believe that is because we deal with our scheduled recordings, keep them cleaned out, and look for potential conflicts om a regular basis. We also try a little harder than some to understand just what is going on without whining about how it "should" be.

FWIW, I just ran into my "first" glitch that I could not explain or resolve. I tried to schedule New Episode recordings for Judging Amy and Blind Justice a few minutes ago and I couldn't do it. It kept telling me I couldn't schedule 3 recordings and even displayed only 2 shows asking me which one to cancel. There were "no" conflicts, potential or otherwise, and I even cleared out all my schedule, one at a time, in an attempt to schedule these 2 shows. I finally had to "reboot" (like vegggas suggested) and I was then able to schedule the shows. My guess is that there was something in the cache causing the conflict, but you don't see me bashing SA, lamblasting the 8300HD, or extolling the virtues of Tivo, do you? I simply and quietly followed the recommendations presented here and fixed my problem, at least for the moment. I guess I could always hit the Tivo forums and ask them how they deal with something that is so perfect. :)

* I say that because I entered a recording for Las Vegas, but it doesn't show up in the list of scheduled recordings, it's a repeat in the IPG this week. I looked ahead at TitanTV and see that all 3 will have new episodes on Apr 25. It could be that it didn't accept the schedule because it's a repeat, but if that's the case, then that's a bug in the New Episode option IMO.

Thank you for the long post explaining your views on the 8300. Definitely helped me understand your POV (and why you don't want to discuss TiVo :)). I think the main reason (at least for me...having a Stand alone TiVo in the bedroom) that I get frustrated with the 8300 is that it does just "decide" to not record something, thus forcing us to "look for potential conflicts on a regular basis". But that is the whole point of a DVR...not forcing us to have to check with regularity to make sure shows we want to watch actually get recorded (as the VCR once did). By having to check each night (as I'll forget what may or may not be recording next time), it's becoming a nightly thing. That combined with a really sh*te interface for finding shows that are on and what is coming up, they don't exactly seem to be try to "win over" anyone, but rather "take it or leave it".

People do b*tch about how good TiVo is (and hopefully will be), but I think it is more of longing for how good the 8300 potentially could be. TiVo still has to manage multiple cablecos and conflict resolution (with even more conflicts to resolve than the 8300). As an "it does the job I need it to do...mostly" machine, the 8300 is good, definitely not perfect and somewhat close to great, but certainly good.

With all that being said, I'm happy to have an HD DVR that records (most of the time) and gives me a good amount of space on which to do it. Random reboots and bad conflict resolution definitely does not help the cause :), but I'll suck it up to have an HD DVR :D

I was thinking that rather than complaining about how much better the TiVo is than the 8300HD, how about making a post (or a new thread) about improvements to the 8300HD that we'd like to see (perhaps something we can ask SA or our local cablecos when we're looking for some improvement in service or something's not quite right)

I'm going to sum it up even simpler. Think of TiVo as a BMW, and the SA 8300 is a Chevy.

Both will get you from point A to point B. The Beemer just has a few better whistles and bell, and safety options as well.

The price of the Beemer is too much for me. It's nice but I can't afford it. So I get the Chevy.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ <snip>
Ideally, I suppose I'd like to be able to set a priority myself, but I'd be happy if it just used the date the recordings were scheduled to resolve any conflicts. I suppose it could also display a message indicating there is a conflict and make you cancel one, but then they'd still have to decide what to do if you are not there at the time, which is the whole point to time-shifting. :) <SNIP>

I believe that the original idea for priorities and conflicts that were written into the code was for the Mail Light indicator to come on, and users would check their messages (like Replay) and then tidy up the conflicts. Problem is, virtually no MSO's use the mail indicator at all, or are not fully compatible.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ <snip>
For all we know, the code is already in there (just as the First Run option stuff was) and is just not working the way it should. I'm sure if all they had to do was fix this one problem it would be easy, but you and I both know they are working on much more and just about the time they fix this, the cableco's will start rolling out a new IPG (which is rumored) and for all I know that is what they are working toward in the first place.
<SNIP>

I have heard the solution is in a different IPG information screen, much more advanced than the current one. I keep hearing about development of a new IPG interface, and that it will free up a lot of issues with all STB's. For the Comcast users, who will be getting the Tivo interface, the main difference is that they will be using the patented Tivo information screens as their input fields.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ <snip>
There has to be a reason why vegggas, I, and others don't run into these problems. I believe that is because we deal with our scheduled recordings, keep them cleaned out, and look for potential conflicts on a regular basis. We also try a little harder than some to understand just what is going on without whining about how it "should" be.
<SNIP>

For the record, Dave (DoubleDAZ) and I (vegggas) live in different states and timezones. I don't always keep my old recording cleaned out, but I do go through it every couple of weeks to see if I need to adjust anything. Usually I do a single recording of a new show, and sometimes again the second week. I will later decide if it's worth my time to record it on a regular basis. If it's not a good enough show to peak my interest enough to remember it, I'll never bother setting a series recording. While all these new shows are coming out, and others are on hiatus, it's mainly One Episode Only for me, until something jumps out as a winner.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ <snip>
FWIW, I just ran into my "first" glitch that I could not explain or resolve. I tried to schedule New Episode recordings for Judging Amy and Blind Justice a few minutes ago and I couldn't do it. It kept telling me I couldn't schedule 3 recordings and even displayed only 2 shows asking me which one to cancel. There were "no" conflicts, potential or otherwise, and I even cleared out all my schedule, one at a time, in an attempt to schedule these 2 shows. I finally had to "reboot" (like vegggas suggested) and I was then able to schedule the shows. My guess is that there was something in the cache causing the conflict, but you don't see me bashing SA, lamblasting the 8300HD, or extolling the virtues of Tivo, do you? I simply and quietly followed the recommendations presented here and fixed my problem, at least for the moment. I guess I could always hit the Tivo forums and ask them how they deal with something that is so perfect. :)
<SNIP>

I'm glad to see you were able to resolve a conflict! It looks like one of your tuners glitched out and had to be reset by a reboot. This is a known problem when a recording hits 99%, but could happen at other times too.
You did clean out all your previous recorded schedules, but that was probably not the problem in this case. Anyway, did you make any changes, and/or drop any shows from the list that you found that you don't care about anymore?

vegggas

Lampei, those are all good points and I understand/agree with it all. However, most of the interface is not under their (SA) control and that is yet another unfair blight directed towards SA. As I've said before, if SA could control the environment and data, they'd be able to do a much better job. Tivo has to program for one basic system with a single database and a single spec for just about everything. SA, on the other hand, has to program for several IPGs, different headend hardware, etc.

I am not trying to say there are not problems, there are, and many folks run into them, I have just been lucky I guess. But all that aside, I think I am just a bit more willing to look, as you have, at the glass being half full rather than half empty. I am happy to be able to timeshift HD, period. I am willing to try to understand all that is involved with getting this stuff to run correctly on all the different cableco's with multiple databases to deal with and all that.

I also believe SA and cableco's are working on all these issues and relief is coming. Cox's recent announcement about iTV is a step in the right direction. I think you are absolutely right about the interface, but that is not SA, they are probably as frustrated by it as we are and they get a lot of the blame for something they don't control. But, unless you want to shell out $1,000 for an HD Tivo and switch services, here we are. I suspect too that if SA were getting $1,000 a pop and $12.95 a month, they'd have more resources to do a better job. Now, I might feel differently if Tivo were to release an HD DVR tomorrow to run on any cableco, regardless of headend equipment, IPG database, etc. The one good thing about Tivo going to bed with Comcast is that all cableco's will be pressured to upgrading their IPG and that is a good thing!

My real beef at the moment is that you don't come into a thread, b*tch about how great the Tivo is, and then ask for help with the 8300. Comments that SA must not have ever seen a Tivo before are just plain foolish and childish, especially when there is no attempt to understand just how much is involved with all this or read the thread to see what has been posted in the past.

Your suggestion that someone start a thread about needed improvements is a good one, but I think SA and the cableco's all know just what the goal is. I remember all the posts about the First Run flag when the flag was in the software all along, but the IPG database had to be upgraded. Regardless of how we feel about it, these things don't happen overnight and we simply had to wait until our respective cableco's were ready to release the upgrade. Once they did, the First Run option worked. In the meantime, however, how much flack do you think SA received for something that was already coded and released from their end? That's what gets my dander up, folks who want to rant without even trying to get the facts.

As for the "deciding" not to record something, I don't know what standalone Tivo you have in your bedroom, but correct me if I'm wrong. I suspect it is a single-tuner unit that uses a IR Blaster (or something similar) to change the cable channels, much like I used to do with the VCR Commander on my SA3250HD. Does the Tivo extract the data it needs from the cable IPG database and then present it to you as it's own IPG? Does it allow you to schedule more programs than it can record for the same timeslot? How does it handle conflicts?

I am more than willing to discuss Tivo features and compare them to the 8300 and what we'd like to see in the future. Not having ever used a Tivo, it's difficult for me to picture how the same things are done on it while not causing a conflict. I believe someone once explained a bit about the sequence for recordings and the Wish List, but it's been a long time ago and I could use a refresher, if you have the time. I might even consider adding a part in the first post for "Desired Enhancements" or something like that if it can be done without just saying, "make it a Tivo" or listing all Tivo features. :)

Originally posted by vegggas
I'm glad to see you were able to resolve a conflict! It looks like one of your tuners glitched out and had to be reset by a reboot. This is a known problem when a recording hits 99%, but could happen at other times too.
You did clean out all your previous recorded schedules, but that was probably not the problem in this case. Anyway, did you make any changes, and/or drop any shows from the list that you found that you don't care about anymore? I wish now I had tried the reboot before I deleted all my recordings, not because it was a problem entering them again, but just to see if that would have cleared up the conflict to begin with. Based on the problem, I just assumed one of them must have been conflicting and I simply couldn't see it. But after reading your post and thinking about it some more, I suspect the reboot would have resolved it by itself. The main thing is I didn't get all bent out of shape. I simply dealt with it and am back on track, no harm, no foul in my book.

Anyway, I didn't make any changes, I re-entered all those that I had previously scheduled, including some movies I probably won't get time to watch. :) I generally don't schedule things I don't expect to watch and if I do, I delete them at some fairly early point. I'm not one of those who schedules everything I MAY watch and that probably helps me avoid some of the problems others get themselves into. I do, however, have several series being recorded, dailies, etc., so I pretty much run the gamut of options. I'm hoping to run into an actual conflict to see exactly what happens and I find your comment about the mail light use enlightening. :)

I remember the discussion we had last year about Billionaire and problems recording it reliably. I think we pretty much concluded it was the IPG, but I don't think we ever proved it. I think some of these missed recordings fall into the same category. We have therories that tend to hold up, but unless we can see the schedule and IPG ourselves, it's difficult to say, "proof positive". I know that is frustrating to many folks, but I just don't understand the ranting about Tivo. The solution to that is simple, go buy the d*mned thing and go away. :)

Let's all get this straight:

TiVo depends on the $12.95/month that they charge for their program service (IPG) to stay in business (and as they have regularly loosing money their ability to do this remains in doubt). Profits from sale of hardware are secondary. For that kind of money, they ought to get it straight.

Cable, on the other hand, rents DVR boxes for approximately $10/month which uses the IPG that is provided for free. I guess you get what you pay for.

But you SA complainers out there seem to want the $12.95/month level service for nothing!!!!!!!! (Don't you?)

Oh, and while you wish that the Comcast deal will give you what you want - remember that TiVo's hot new technology is a system to INSERT COMMERCIALS in the TiVo playback. To quote Dow Jones:

By Deborah Finestone Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Tivo Inc. (TIVO) shares rose 6.7% Tuesday after Smith Barney upgraded the stock, citing new growth prospects that may stem from an advertising deal announced last week with Comcast Corp. (CMCSA, CMCSK).

"The Comcast deal is a watershed event for the company," analyst Tony Wible wrote in a research note, raising his rating to buy from hold.

The deal substantiates Tivo's digital video recorder advertising products, and could help lead to additional deals with cable providers over the next two years to increase DVR profits and advertising revenue, he said.

Last week, Comcast said it is working on an advertising system that will insert new, updated commercials into already-recorded programs. The system also could take into account viewership patterns to make ads more targeted and relevant, executives said.:rolleyes:

Do you really think that the final Comcast/TiVo product will allow you to escape those newly inserted commercials?

IM HAPPY WITH MY SA8300HD AS IT IS (As Dave Says - I Love it Too!!) :)

OK, as I'm off to bed soon, I'll just make one quick post about the TiVo conflict resolution (thanks for the long response again...definitely good contributions to the thread...what makes sense and what doesn't)

The main thing for conflict resolution in TiVo is the season pass listing. This allows you to sort your shows based on how much you like it or don't like it. Each time you set up a season pass for a show (either by going through the guide or searching for the shows from the downloaded database of shows that TiVo gets each night, coming up in the next fortnight), you say which shows you want to record...first shown or first shown and repeats (there may be more, but it's been a while as the TiVo's in the bedroom :D). If the option you select has conflicts (it scans the database and lets you know upcoming shows that conflict), you can say record everything or record as shown (which lists and shows that don't conflict and ones that do). If you say to record everything, it lists the shows that will not be recorded by you recording all shows. I think by saying record all shows, it places it at the number 1 spot in your season pass list. This means that you want TiVo to record this show no matter what else is on. Then, each time you add a season pass, this same process is used and the show is ranked based upon your preferences..but wait, it doesn't stop there :D You can then adjust the rankings of shows up and down the season pass list, if you want a certain show to be recorded above another show (say you like to watch Jeopardy and have a season pass for it, but don't really care if it records it every day), you can then move the other show above Jeopardy and it will record that one with a higher priority than Jeopardy (i.e. if it conflicts the higher show will be recorded).

Plus if a show does not get recorded, TiVo stores a log of why it did not get recorded for you to check later on (thus taking the guesswork out of what the hell is happening with the DVR). Plus, it doesn't list the shows by date (as it seems to with the 8300), it just lists the shows. Once you click on the show, you can see the next upcoming show and if it's going to be recorded or not and also a list of the upcoming shows in the next 2 weeks and whether *they're* going to be recorded. There's also another screen that you can see what's going to be recorded (listed by recording date) for shows for the next 2 weeks, so you can add and remove shows based upon that (e.g. perhaps you have a show that's a repeat that you don't want to watch, you can just remove it). This has frustrated me a couple of times with the 8300...I've removed a show (thinking that it would just remove the one show), but it cancels the season pass I have for it (I had set up 24 to be recorded, but there was a duplicate episode for it on Sunday, so I decided to cancel the one on Sunday. I realized on Sunday, luckily, that it had cancelled my pass and set it up to record the Monday show).

Anyway, I think that's probably the best way to solve conflicts...allow us to rank shows, the 8300 then checks to see which is higher on the list, and records that one. Simple...right? :D

(Apparently I was a little slow typing this in and a few posts came in before mine...this was in response to DoubleDAZ's post)

Lampei, thanks for the quick reply, I've copied it to save for future reference, really good explanation.

I suspected that almost everything Tivo-lovers (and I use the term affectionately :) ) want in the 8300 is in the Season Pass part of their system. If you strip that out, I suspect Tivo would be no better off than the 8300 and it's current software. Now, it may be that Season Pass functionality is copyrighted and SA, if they are working on similar functions as I believe they are, may be having some difficulty trying not to infringe.

As it is, I agree with Dave Hancock (thanks for the support BTW), you get what you pay for and I'm happy with what I have and what it costs me. That said, I don't begrudge Tivo folks their desire to have that option as well, I just ask that they not rant in this thread. Time will tell just how good the Comcast deal really is and I hope they get what they think they will. I know advertising is a hot topic and I suspect some will be disappointed, though the Season Pass stuff may soothe that disappointment.

seen this inadvertent recording deallie happen to be some time ago...but this new box hasnt done that yet...the other one was a 8000 dvr

anyhow firmwarees are auto updated so its out of my hands..isnt it/???



Martin
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Barco 801S, Centerstage CS2 w/SDi,Infocus X1,SA8300HD DVR/STB,AMD64 HTPC/HCPC, kenwood vr8070 receiver and the rest of the audio system is also kenwood!!! (looking for a standalone dvdplayer to modify with SDI...)
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Yes, it is. And cableco's don't always update at the same time even if they receive the new software at the same time. Unfortunately, the fact that some of the issues we are discussing may already be fixed/addressed doesn't help much if a given cableco doesn't use the latest software and it's subs continue to have problems.

The other side of that coin is the IPG. As with the First Run flag, if it also doesn't get upgraded, any fixes in the software, even if used, doesn't help because the needed data is not there yet.

Unfortunately, that doesn't help the sub much,but I prefer to lay blame where it should be, if known, and not simply bash SA. They certainly have their problems, nobody disputes that, but there is enough blame to go around. Subs can help temsleves by reading all the recommendations here and not try to force the 8300 to do something it simply can't. By taking control of things, even if it means a little extra work, you save yourself a whole bunch of aggravation and anger that does no one, especially yourself, any good.

I just installed a new 8300HD on my system today that Cox OKC used to replace my old 8000HD box and I have several questions and comments. I had the 8000HD for nearly 10 months so I have had a good deal of experience with the SARA software.

First, the reason I got Cox to replace the 8000HD was that audio dropouts on HD recordings, which had always been bad, had become much worse in recent days. Has SA whipped that problem with the 8300HD? Are there any other areas in which the 8300HD is significantly superior to the 8000HD? If so, what are they?

I saw in one of the early posts to this thread from last November that with some software there is a keystroke combination that makes it possible for the 8300HD to jump forward or backward in a recorded program in 15 minute increments. Should this be possible with the SARA software that my 8300HD runs?

I never had much trouble with the SARA software getting my old 8000HD to record everything I scheduled pretty much as advertised. I suspect that is because, like Dave and vegggas, I am pretty careful about housekeeping.

Finally, I share Dave's impatience with those who are scornful of the 8300HD because it is inferior to the HD TiVo in so many ways. I had a TiVo for 5 years before I got my 8000HD last year so I am the first to concede that the SARA software is primitive, verging on pitiful, compared to TiVo's. Nevertheless, how much sense does it make to compare a box that rents for less that $10 a month with one that costs $1,000? Not much, it seems to me. Such complaints make about as much sense as complaining because a McDonald's hamburger is not as good as the steak au poivre at the fanciest French restaurant in town.

Originally posted by gwsat
First, the reason I got Cox to replace the 8000HD was that audio dropouts on HD recordings, which had always been bad, had become much worse in recent days. Has SA whipped that problem with the 8300HD? Are there any other areas in which the 8300HD is significantly superior to the 8000HD? If so, what are they?


This is the only question I feel comfortable answering.

I don't believe sound drop offs are necessarily the 8000 or 8300's fault. I find that they occure more often during doby digital broadcast.

I think the majority of this problem deals with the HD broadcast itself. Case in point, NBC is absolutly horrible with sound drop offs, sound missing from the center speaker. I think that OTA people will confirm that too.

I don't think it's the recorders fault.

I do want to make comment about the TiVo thing. Why are you, Dave and anyone else in any kind of uproar about comparisons? I think most people understand that SA has unique problems in trying to deal with not just many cable companies but also a montage of cable systems, some of them probably 30 years or more older.

I agree that it isn't fair to compare the two....but it's going to happen no matter what. True, it's the SA tricks and tips thread, but I think that means talking about the SA 8300 including it's shortcomings.

There you go Dave, I defended it and took a shot at it at the same time.:)

Comparing the 8300 to the Tivo box is a very fair comparison. Remember, it only costs the USER $10/month. If you wanted to outright buy a 8300HD it would probably cost you about the same as an HD tivo.

hookbill -- I concluded that the 8000HD was the culprit in my case. I was having bad dropout problems on EVERY HD channel, which got dramatically worse in the past few days. Also, the worst of the problems always occurred when I was watching a recording, rather than when I was watching live. For example, I watched virtually all of CBS's HD coverage of the Masters golf tournament on Saturday and Sunday and noticed few if any dropouts.

I think we agree that SA's software stinks. My only point, and I think Dave's, is that knocking the 8300HD here because it is dramatically inferior to the HD TiVo both belabors the obvious and fails to provide any useful information to folks who are trying to get the most out of their 8300HDs.

Originally posted by trpltongue
Comparing the 8300 to the Tivo box is a very fair comparison. Remember, it only costs the USER $10/month. If you wanted to outright buy a 8300HD it would probably cost you about the same as an HD tivo.

The trouble is, you CAN'T rent an HD TiVo. Instead, you have to pay about $1,000 for it and be responsible for repairs and upgrades in the bargain. For example, I turned in an old 8000HD for a brand new 8300HD today at no additional cost. Further, the 8300HD is not available for retail purchase. See this link:

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8300hd.htm

All of this convinces me that such comparison's are specious -- like comparing a McDonald's hamburger to a fancy steak dinner.

Originally posted by gwsat
hookbill -- I concluded that the 8000HD was the culprit in my case. I was having bad dropout problems on EVERY HD channel, which got dramatically worse in the past few days. Also, the worst of the problems always occurred when I was watching a recording, rather than when I was watching live. For example, I watched virtually all of CBS's HD coverage of the Masters golf tournament on Saturday and Sunday and noticed few if any dropouts.

But you yourself say the problem is on EVERY HD channel. What about SD? No problem there?

I don't live in your area so I can't say your wrong. Have you checked on your local HD thread to see if OTA people are having problems?

I don't record a great deal of SD and I wouldn't say I don't get any sound drop offs but they do seem far fewer then what I get on HD.

So either I'm wrong and in that case don't expect any changes from the 8300, or I'm right and it's the broadcast. It may be both too, it's just too hard to tell.

Originally posted by gwsat
The trouble is, you CAN'T rent an HD TiVo. Instead, you have to pay about $1,000 for it and be responsible for repairs and upgrades in the bargain. For example, I turned in an old 8000HD for a brand new 8300HD today at no additional cost. Further, the 8300HD is not available for retail purchase. See this link:

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8300hd.htm

All of this convinces me that such comparison's are specious -- like comparing a McDonald's hamburger to a fancy steak dinner.

Well, your not responsible for upgrades, TiVo does that and it does come with a one year warranty.

The rest of your statement is totally correct.

Originally posted by hookbill
Well, your not responsible for upgrades, TiVo does that and it does come with a one year warranty.

The rest of your statement is totally correct.

I stated that part of my post clumsily. I was not referring to software upgrades. Instead, I meant HARDWARE upgrades; for example, the 8300HD, which Cox gave me to replace the 8000HD. As for repairs, if warranty repairs on a TiVo are required you are responsible for sending it in -- and being without while you are waiting. Been there, done that. :)

Originally posted by gwsat
Further, the 8300HD is not available for retail purchase. .

Note quite: In Canada you have to purchase them. If I recall correctly the price was around $800 Cdn (for an 8000HD).

I've been away from Dtivo for 3 months and I will NEVER go back. The SA8300 is simply amazing with all the things it can do without hardly a glitch. I wish my PC's were the same!

Originally posted by Lampei
I was thinking that rather than complaining about how much better the TiVo is than the 8300HD, how about making a post (or a new thread) about improvements to the 8300HD that we'd like to see (perhaps something we can ask SA or our local cablecos when we're looking for some improvement in service or something's not quite right)
See, that's all well and good and sounds right, but problem is, all of these major bugs (i.e. can't start from the beginning of a show you turn on in the middle and getting kicked to live when the show ends) have existed in the 8000.

I'm very worried that these stuff will never get fixed. The 8000 has been out, what, 2+ years? They haven't yet gotten around to fixing the bug where you get kicked out to live? That worries me a lot. Maybe they CAN'T fix it for some reason?

I don't complain about my 8300HD too much. It's got 2 tuners and records HD and it's pretty cheap. In my book, that makes it light years ahead of a TIVO (which, admittedly, I've never used), but it's got some very embarassing flaws that haven't been addressed over a long period of time.

I just don't understand the conversation when they talk to a new cable MSO. Don't the MSOs question all these bugs? It's got to be complete incompetence that the kicked out to live bug hasn't been fixed. I guess it's, by far, the cheapest and most profitable solution for the MSO, so they don't care.

Hookbill, as you'll notice in some of my past posts and a recent one in this thread, I have no problem at all "discussing" Tivo. My ONLY complaint is anyone who opens a post with only a rant about how good Tivo is and how bad the 8300 is. Anyone who "takes the time" to read this thread will see that EVERYTHING about the differences between the Tivo and the 8300 have been discussed, sometimes thoughtfully to gain some insight and other times from the obnoxious and offending "the 8300 sucks" POV.

My only point is that if that is going to be the tone of your post, then don't bother to ask me to help you with your problem. Turn your 8300 back in to your cableco and go buy your beloved Tivo. Either that or start your own flame thread and blast SA and the 8300 to your heart's content. :)

I am here for no other reason than to help where I can (and I think I've done that), but I refuse to sit silently by while folks waste my time and others with needless ranting.

I should add that I don't really know why it offends me so much. I guess it's because oftentimes the poster has not even tried to understand what is happening and, as someone mentioned, is just trying to get an HD Tivo at cable/SA8300HD prices. They obviously don't think the HD Tivo is worth the price or they'd find a way to buy one. If they can't afford it, then they need to realize they get what they pay for and shut up already.

Originally posted by gwsat
II saw in one of the early posts to this thread from last November that with some software there is a keystroke combination that makes it possible for the 8300HD to jump forward or backward in a recorded program in 15 minute increments. Should this be possible with the SARA software that my 8300HD runs? No, that feature is in the Passport software and does not work with SARA. In fact, we're probably lucky they even included the FF features to begin with because they are under a lot of pressure from advertisers to delete all functions that let us skip commercials. If you read some of the recent press on the Tivo/Comcast deal, they are collecting a lot of data, including how many and how often commercials are skipped. They are even working on a way to insert commercials in already recorded programs and that really sucks. Tivo-lovers looking forward to the Comcast rollout may be in for a rude awakening.

Originally posted by hookbill
I agree that it isn't fair to compare the two....but it's going to happen no matter what. True, it's the SA tricks and tips thread, but I think that means talking about the SA 8300 including it's shortcomings.

There you go Dave, I defended it and took a shot at it at the same time.:) I noticed how you did that. Boy, you are good! :)

At any rate, I feel if I do a reverse rant every once in a while, some newbies might just think twice. Plus, it gets it off my chest and I feel SO much better now. :D

Originally posted by foghorn2
I've been away from Dtivo for 3 months and I will NEVER go back. The SA8300 is simply amazing with all the things it can do without hardly a glitch. I wish my PC's were the same! Now this is a very suspicious post if I've ever read one. :)

Originally posted by lexluthor
See, that's all well and good and sounds right, but problem is, all of these major bugs (i.e. can't start from the beginning of a show you turn on in the middle and getting kicked to live when the show ends) have existed in the 8000.

I'm very worried that these stuff will never get fixed. The 8000 has been out, what, 2+ years? They haven't yet gotten around to fixing the bug where you get kicked out to live? That worries me a lot. Maybe they CAN'T fix it for some reason?

I don't complain about my 8300HD too much. It's got 2 tuners and records HD and it's pretty cheap. In my book, that makes it light years ahead of a TIVO (which, admittedly, I've never used), but it's got some very embarassing flaws that haven't been addressed over a long period of time.

I just don't understand the conversation when they talk to a new cable MSO. Don't the MSOs question all these bugs? It's got to be complete incompetence that the kicked out to live bug hasn't been fixed. I guess it's, by far, the cheapest and most profitable solution for the MSO, so they don't care. I'd agree with you except for one thing. If you had more serious obstacles to overcome to get your product working with all the cableco's out there and their crappy hardware/software, where would you put your resources? A DVR is NOT designed to let you join a show in progress, it is designed to record the show, period. Everything else are just added features that come at a price. Did you call up the VCR maker when you found out you couldn't join a show in progress and start from the beginning? Of course not, so why do it with the 8300? Simply because some other unit has that option? I would also like the option, but unlike SO many, I don't b*itch about it because it is not an advertised option, it is simply a feature others have and, for whatever reason, it is not yet available on the 8300.

The other side of that coin is that instead of b*tching about it here, have you contacted SA or your cableco to request that the feature be added? I would bet that the vast majority of complainers have not taken the time or made the effort to let their wishes be known in a resonable manner.

To be sure, I'm asking these questions tongue-in-cheek, but my point is that it is NOT a bug, it is simply a feature that many of us would like. Only if they advertised that you could join a show in progress from the beginning would it be a bug if that did not happen. Many of the complaints against the 8300 are only complaints because they did not include features found on other DVRs, nothing more, nothing less. My new Dodge Dakota doesn't go as fast as the Ram Viper, but then it didn't cost $50,000 and I don't go b*tching to Dodge about it.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
A DVR is NOT designed to let you join a show in progress, it is designed to record the show, period.

What???!??????

I don't know of a single DVR that doesn't let you join a show in progress, even my DVD recorder allows you to do that. For that matter the 8300 allows you to do that to, it just does a very poor job of doing it.
Joining a show in progress is one of those things that people now just assume comes with a DVR, similiarly to people assuming their TV is going to come with a remote.

Originally posted by foghorn2
I've been away from Dtivo for 3 months and I will NEVER go back. The SA8300 is simply amazing with all the things it can do without hardly a glitch. I wish my PC's were the same!

When I read this post yesterday I have to admit I started laughing. It appears your serious. All I have to say is that if the 8300 has been that good to you more power to you. It hasn't been my experience at all.

I had D-TiVo for a year and a half, the non hd version, and it was absolutely wonderful. I noticed yesterday that House wasn't recorded, nor was it scheduled to be recorded next week. I set up another record all/timeslot.

Again FOR THE PRICE, and what it has to deal with in general it's not bad. But if I could get the features and reliablity that D-TiVo gave me I'd pay more money. Unfortunately I can't get satallite reception in my area (too many trees).

This post is both a report and a tip.

The report: I have confirmed that the audio dropouts I was having with the 8000HD were caused by the DVR, not by the broadcasters. After nearly 24 hours of use watching both SD and HD programs, both recorded and live, I have not experienced a single audio dropout with the 8300HD -- and, boy, is that refreshing!

The tip: When you are fast forwarding through commercials, press the Pause button instead of the Play button to stop fast forwarding. This way, when you hit the rewind button to back up to the precise place to restart the program, it will remain paused instead of immediately starting to play again. I have found that this makes getting to the right starting place a lot easier.

Originally posted by gwsat
This post is both a report and a tip.

The report: I have confirmed that the audio dropouts I was having with the 8000HD were caused by the DVR, not by the broadcasters. After nearly 24 hours of use watching both SD and HD programs, both recorded and live, I have not experienced a single audio dropout with the 8300HD -- and, boy, it that refreshing!

The tip: When you are fast forwarding through commercials, press the Pause button instead of the Play button to stop fast forwarding. This way, when you hit the rewind button to back up to the precise place to restart the program, it will remain paused instead of immediately starting to play again. I have found that this makes getting to the right starting place a lot easier.

Have you tried hitting the replay button? That's a pretty good way to do it too. I think DoubleDAZ came up with that tip.

Originally posted by hookbill
Have you tried hitting the replay button? That's a pretty good way to do it too. I think DoubleDAZ came up with that tip.

By "replay button" do you mean the the button with the little circular arrow on it? If so, I think that's the only way to make the program back up, other than using the Fast Reverse button. The revelation to me was that using the Pause button rather than the Play button to stop Fast Forward made finding the desired starting point a lot easier. I haven't tried pressing the replay button while in Fast Forward mode but I shall do so and report my results.

Originally posted by gwsat
By "replay button" do you mean the the button with the little circular arrow on it? If so, I think that's the only way to make the program back up, other than using the Fast Reverse button. The revelation to me was that using the Pause button rather than the Play button to stop Fast Forward made finding the desired starting point a lot easier. I haven't tried pressing the replay button while in Fast Forward mode but I shall do so and report my results.

Correct. It makes it work a bit like TiVo which backs up a bit when you stop it on ff.

That's the way I've been doing mine, I think it's a good tip.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
The other side of that coin is that instead of b*tching about it here, have you contacted SA or your cableco to request that the feature be added? I would bet that the vast majority of complainers have not taken the time or made the effort to let their wishes be known in a resonable manner.


Yes, actually. There's a yahoo forum where an Exec VP at Cablevision interacts with us all. He doesn't give us too many juicy details, but he certainly listens to everything going on and takes notes.

Like I said, I'm happy with the 8300 overall. I just think it's couple a couple of major problems with it, that, if fixed, would make it an amazing device.

The thing I have liked best about the 8000HD/8300HD is that they cost nothing up front and the rental is less that $10 a month. Further, they do their basic job, which is recording and playing back HD programming. Do I miss my old TiVo's sophisticated features? Sure I do but the 8300HD, its weaknesses notwithstanding, still provides a lot of bang for the buck.

Originally posted by Azlen
What???!??????

I don't know of a single DVR that doesn't let you join a show in progress, even my DVD recorder allows you to do that...... Len, the fact that you can do something does not mean it is a design feature. Show me one press release, user's guide entry, etc., from SA that advertises joining a program in progress as a feature. The fact that you assume it is a feature and then complain that it does a very poor job of it tends to prove my point. Had it been a design feature from the beginning, I believe there would be an option to "start from the beginning" when you select a recording in progress like there is when you select a completed recording. Since there isn't, I'll assume the ability to join a program is simply there, but not by specific design. There is a big difference between something that is purposefully designed into a product vs something that simply exists as a matter of operation. I'm sure you think this is convoluted thinking, but I've had to eventually design in many "features" that were not part of a program's original design simply because folks that were using my programs found they could do something, though not completely the way they wanted to.

Originally posted by hookbill
Correct. It makes it work a bit like TiVo which backs up a bit when you stop it on ff.

That's the way I've been doing mine, I think it's a good tip. The Replay button backs up in 8 second increments after Stop is pressed. However, gwsat's suggestion actually works quite well. Hitting REW a few times while FF is Paused backs up in small increments and does make it a bit easier to find the point where you want to restart. I'll add it to the first post in this thread. Good find!

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
The Replay button backs up in 8 second increments after Stop is pressed. However, gwsat's suggestion actually works quite well. Hitting REW a few times while FF is Paused backs up in small increments and does make it a bit easier to find the point where you want to restart. I'll add it to the first post in this thread. Good find!

Dave -- After reading hookbill's tip I tried using the Replay button instead of the pause button to get out of Fast Forward and thought it worked well. The bottom line seems to me to be that getting out of Fast Forward with either the Pause or Replay button works a lot better than does using the Play button to do so.

Greetings all,

Apologies if I helped to steer this thread in a wrong direction. I realize it is for tips & appreciate the help and info contained here.

All I want is for the 8300 to operate as designed, with minimum glitches.

Anyway, not here to complain or bash SA. I'm thankful that I have a dual tuner HD DVR. I guess it's just going to take time to work out the problems.

The reality is, we're taking part in an $8 per month beta test for our respective cable companies.

Thanks for the assistance and I will be sure to keep posts on topic.

-J

Originally posted by tattooedbones
Greetings all,

Apologies if I helped to steer this thread in a wrong direction. I realize it is for tips & appreciate the help and info contained here.

All I want is for the 8300 to operate as designed, with minimum glitches.

Anyway, not here to complain or bash SA. I'm thankful that I have a dual tuner HD DVR. I guess it's just going to take time to work out the problems.

The reality is, we're taking part in an $8 per month beta test for our respective cable companies.

Thanks for the assistance and I will be sure to keep posts on topic.

-J

Count your blessings. I'm paying Cox OKC $9.95 a month to be a beta tester. :)

I gather that the Passport software, which some cable systems run on the 8300HD, provides functionality that is much, much closer to the TiVo software than the SARA software most of us are running does. I would love it if Cox would make a deal with TiVo to license its software for the SA boxes but I'm not holding my breath. I would gladly pay extra to get TiVo's software.

In the meantime, the 8300HD has eliminated the audio dropout glitches for which the 8000HD was notorious, so I'm not complaining, either. The ability to record 2 HD programs simultaneously while watching a third program you have already recorded, all for $9.95 a month, is a good value.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Len, the fact that you can do something does not mean it is a design feature. Show me one press release, user's guide entry, etc., from SA that advertises joining a program in progress as a feature. The fact that you assume it is a feature and then complain that it does a very poor job of it tends to prove my point. Had it been a design feature from the beginning, I believe there would be an option to "start from the beginning" when you select a recording in progress like there is when you select a completed recording. Since there isn't, I'll assume the ability to join a program is simply there, but not by specific design. There is a big difference between something that is purposefully designed into a product vs something that simply exists as a matter of operation. I'm sure you think this is convoluted thinking, but I've had to eventually design in many "features" that were not part of a program's original design simply because folks that were using my programs found they could do something, though not completely the way they wanted to.


The point is that the ability to join a show in progress has been a standard DVR feature. If SA decided to not make it a feature in their own DVR it would be an even greater disappointment. It would be like a TV maker not including a remote with their television because they decided not to design that feature. I have not contacted my cableco or SA on this because I read elsewhere that it is the thing that SA is hearing about the most in regards to their 8300 and that they were looking to fix it fairly soon. One can only hope.

Wondering if anyone has a clue as to what may be going on here...

With the pending Doom of Voom I picked up 3 SA8300HD units from the Chandler Arizona Cox Cable office and was going to run Voom until April 30th, however, I opted to end Voom early. I re-worked my system today and hooked up (2) of the (3) 8300's and only left 1 Voom box live to view it until the end.

Now this is where it gets interesting and I need the help of someone on this group that may be in the know.

I have 2 sets (3 cables each) of RG6 running component to my projector, set 1 is setup directly to the DVD player, set 2 is running through my Yamaha Receiver which switches the XBox in HD via component and the Voom (now 8300HD) so far...

When the Voom was hooked up this way, video was perfect, when I connected the 8300 in place of the Voom, the video was over driven, out of color and made me think that I killed one of my Monster component cables when I changed the equipment or worse the input to my AMP.

In the end I found that if I ran the 8300 directly to the projector it worked fine, but when running through my amp no joy. I re-worked all the connections, passthru's and remote programming and it's working most excellent now but I'm curiuos to know if anyone has a clue as to why the 8300 would not work via the AMPs component lines... really odd.

Any ideas?

Miguel

Do you mean that the picture was unwatchable or that it just looked worse? I have my 8300HD set up w/ component through my Yamaha receiver (RXV1400) to my TV and it seems fine.

Originally posted by bohbot16
Do you mean that the picture was unwatchable or that it just looked worse? I have my 8300HD set up w/ component through my Yamaha receiver (RXV1400) to my TV and it seems fine.

The video was totally blown out, over saturated, green looked nuclear, reds were pushed so far it was unreal, when I switched the input on the RXV700 from the cable box to the x-box it was perfect which led to the experiment of replacing the component cable between the SA8300HD and the receiver. This didn't solve the issue so I chose to connect the SA8300 directly to the projector and it was a perfect picture which really blew me away and led me to think that the HD Component outs on the 8300 are not compatible with my Yamaha in some odd way, yet you would think that it's 1 for 1 in and out. I spoke with the cable provider and they offered no help and had no clue other than to say they would send out an installer to look at my connections (no thanks!). Very odd stuff.

miguel

Originally posted by Azlen
The point is that the ability to join a show in progress has been a standard DVR feature. I won't belabor this point after this comment. From a programmer's perspective, only items in the spec sheets are design features. No matter how you code or build something, folks will find a way to do something that was never in the specs. I believe that is the case with the "join in progress". It didn't have to be coded in, it's simply a natural result of the basic hardware and software design. Unless they specifically lock it out, it's simply there. The fact that the software does not have a "start from beginning" option at this point only reinforces my belief. Do you really think that "any" programmer is so inept as to specifically program a function to let you join a program in progress and then make you rewind to get to the beginning. I've known quite a few "bad" programmers in my time, but even they would not have done this. You can call it a standard feature all you want, but I can assure you that is not the case and it will become a "feature" in the future and when it does, it will work like we want it to. :)

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I won't belabor this point after this comment. From a programmer's perspective, only items in the spec sheets are design features. No matter how you code or build something, folks will find a way to do something that was never in the specs.

That's where the problem lies. When someone at SA sat down to write the specs on their DVR, they forgot to include all basic DVR functions. It's like writing the specs for a car. You need to make sure you include the basics like a steering wheel, gas pedal, wheels, seats etc. When writing the specs for a DVR one of the basic functions is "join in progress". That is why every DVR except the 8300 has the feature, it is something that people expect from a DVR and is why people are complaining about not having it so much.

Originally posted by Azlen
That's where the problem lies. When someone at SA sat down to write the specs on their DVR, they forgot to include all basic DVR functions. It's like writing the specs for a car. You need to make sure you include the basics like a steering wheel, gas pedal, wheels, seats etc. When writing the specs for a DVR one of the basic functions is "join in progress". That is why every DVR except the 8300 has the feature, it is something that people expect from a DVR and is why people are complaining about not having it so much.

I'm a bit confused by this statement. When you say every DVR except the 8300 do you really mean every DVR except SA? Because the 8000 didn't do this either.

I don't buy that at all, but you are free to be right, since you are obviously the expert on every DVR that's ever been produced, know all about the specification sheets for those DVRs, and I've just got a lousy 27 years professional experience defining specs and designing programs. But, I said I'd have no further comment on this off-topic subject and that is that.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I don't buy that at all, but you are free to be right, since you are obviously the expert on every DVR that's ever been produced, know all about the specification sheets for those DVRs, and I've just got a lousy 27 years professional experience defining specs and designing programs. But, I said I'd have no further comment on this off-topic subject and that is that.

I'm a bit confused by this statement. Is this directed at my first confusion or at the person that had me confused?:)

Or is it the Cuervo 1800 that's got me confused and I shouldn't look at these boards after a couple of shooters?

Want to join me in a shot Dave?

I'd love to join you in a shot Hookbill, I need one right about now. :)

Sometimes I get myself so sucked into a topic, I waste way too much time trying to explain my POV to someone who obviously doesn't care one way or the other. I guess that's the residual programmer in me. There generally is no gray area or mincing of words in programming. There are just requirement specifications in black & white and your code either meets those specs or it doesn't.

I guess, too, I just can't fathom any programmer actually coding stuff the way some people think the SA programmers did. Granted, the "join in progress" doesn't work the way we'd like, but I just have a lot of trouble believing someone actually thinks a programmer coded it that way or "forgot" to code a "start from beginning" option.

Maybe I need to put out an analogy of my own. I assume everyone knows that you can slam on the brakes of a car, turn the steering wheel quickly one way or the other, and force the car into a 360 degree spin, a donut if you are old enough to know what that is.

Anyway, I defy anyone to tell me that car engineers specifically designed this "feature" into their cars. It is simply something that happens when you use the brakes and steering wheel in such a combination. The fact that all cars can do it does not make it a design feature. Nor does the fact that there have been subsequent enhancements to skid-control, etc., make the donut capability a poorly designed "feature".

Actually, I'm more facinated by lombana's Component video problem, but I simply don't have the expertise in that area to help, I can't begin to think of why the hookup through the receiver would not work properly.

A any rate, poor me another shot and keep 'em coming, hic!

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I don't buy that at all, but you are free to be right, since you are obviously the expert on every DVR that's ever been produced, know all about the specification sheets for those DVRs, and I've just got a lousy 27 years professional experience defining specs and designing programs. But, I said I'd have no further comment on this off-topic subject and that is that.

My record is only 17-22 in "Who's the Expert?" contests so I think I will beg out of this one. I will leave it at this. I am of the opinion that whoever wrote the specs for SA's DVR's made a huge blunder by not including "join in progress" as a design feature. It is something that many people expect a DVR to do and not including that function as a design feature was a significant mistake.

Originally posted by Azlen
I am of the opinion that whoever wrote the specs for SA's DVR's made a huge blunder by not including "join in progress" as a design feature. It is something that many people expect a DVR to do and not including that function as a design feature was a significant mistake. Now THAT I can agree with 100%, that's what I've been saying all along.

I guess is does help to have a shot every now and then. :)

Quick question...... (ok, maybe not so quick).

While recording a scheduled recording, I often want to rewind and start at the beginning. So I hit "list" on the remote, and rewind to the beginning....say 15 minutes or so after it has started. When I get to the beginning I start watching the recorded show............

My question is.....when the scheduled show gets to the end of taping however, the show I am watching seems to automatically cut away to the live show......and if I want to see the end of the "taped" show, I need to then choose "list"........hit "play"........then fastforward all the way to the near end......where I left off, and watch the last 15 minutes.

Is there not an easier way to stay in the recorded show..........so it does not cut away at the end of the hour........UNTIL I finish watching the FULL recorded show??

I hope the concept of my question was clear enough.

No, there is no workaround at this time. Some reported in the past that they could hit Pause just before the recording ends and then hit Play after the recording ends to keep from getting kicked out to live (and that's one of the tips I added at the beginning of this thread), but that hasn't worked for me lately. :(

The easiest way to keep from having to rewind to the beginning and then having to relocate the point where you get kicked out to live is to quit joining programs while they are still being recorded, especially if the problem bothers you. I still do it every once in a while, but only because it's easy enough to hit REW3 to rewind very quickly and then start from the end and to use REW3 again to get back to the right point. Annoying? Yes, but that's the way it is until they add a "start from beginning" feature, hopefully in the next major software upgrade. I often have enough programs recorded that I don't need to ever do this, but sometimes I just can't wait to watch a given program, so I deal with the known problem. :)

Edit: I have to take back what I just said about the tip. I joined Numb3rs in progress. At 9:59+, I hit Pause and waited for the 8300 clock to go past 10:00. I then hit Play and was not kicked out to live and didn't lose my place. The recent times I've tried this, I must not have done something quite right.

Thanks.........I will have to try the tip. I guess the easiest way would be to wait to the show was over, and start at the beginning, you are right.

Also, after it kicks you out, you are right, I guess you could start at the end, and rewind......but you always run the risk of seeing something at the end of the movie that you don't want to see........so I aways fast forward from the beginning.

You might as well get over the "start at beginning" during a current recording. It was patented by Tivo a while ago.
TiVo's latest domestic patents are for features of its DVR service that are already being used, including the capability to control streaming media in a digital device and TiVo's user interface. TiVo also received the exclusive license for the Goldwasser patent, which covers devices that simultaneously record and play back video with a time delay between recording and playback of a video segment
Replay can use the feature, since they incorporated before the patents, but new development platforms would have to get licensing from Tivo. When SA designed their DVR's they couldn't include that, and over 100 other patents, including priority lists and search, especially since Tivo was partnered with DirecTV at the time.
Unless a company like Comcast agrees to pay $5 - $10 per month per unit for the use of Tivo software (Comcast rumor (unconfirmed) is that the fee will be ~10.00 extra per month on top of current fees), it won't be coming soon.

vegggas

More stuff - especially the Goldwasser patent that allows the varible delay, i.e. allowing to enter a program at any point during recording (Play from start). A finished recording is NOT a varible playback, but a completed archive.

The USPTO recently issued patent number 6,850,691 entitled Automatic Playback Overshoot Correction System to TiVo. Among other things, the patent describes a system that compensates for a user's reaction time when the user stops fast-forwarding or rewinding through program material.

The USPTO also issued patent number 6,847,778 entitled Multimedia Visual Progress Indication System to TiVo. This patent describes, among other things, methods for displaying a trick play bar to a user which visually indicates the amount of stored program material or the length of a recording session as well as the user's current position within the stored program material.

Additionally, the USPTO issued patent number 6,792,195 entitled Method and Apparatus Implementing Random Access and Time-Based Functions on a Continuous Stream of Formatted Digital Data, which is a continuation of an earlier TiVo patent (U.S. Patent No. 6,327,418). This patent describes methods of controlling streaming media in a digital device, including the functions that enable DVRs to pause live TV as well as rewind, fast-forward, play, play faster, play slower, and play in reverse television signals cached by the DVR.

The USPTO also recently issued patent number 6,757,906 entitled Television Viewer Interface System to TiVo that describes several aspects of the intuitive TiVo user interface.

TiVo has also acquired the exclusive right to license and enforce U.S. patent number 5,241,428 entitled Variable-Delay Video Recorder known in the industry as the Goldwasser Patent. Filed in March 1991, the Goldwasser Patent is one of the earliest patents regarding digital video recorders of which TiVo is aware. This patent covers devices that permit the simultaneous recording and playback of video material with a variable time delay between recording and playback of a given video program segment.


Goldwasser patent detailed info (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6304714.html)

vegggas

Originally posted by Tachy
Also, after it kicks you out, you are right, I guess you could start at the end, and rewind......but you always run the risk of seeing something at the end of the movie that you don't want to see........so I aways fast forward from the beginning. :) I let my wife watch and tell me when we've reached the point to start watching from.

Originally posted by bohbot16
Do you mean that the picture was unwatchable or that it just looked worse? I have my 8300HD set up w/ component through my Yamaha receiver (RXV1400) to my TV and it seems fine.

I never could get my old SA 3150HD and 8000HD to work properly when they were connected to my TV via my Yamaha RX-V2400. In both instances I got a watchable picture but it wasn't HD quality. I'll try it again with my 8300HD and report.

vegggas, that is very interesting stuff. Many of us who use cable have been saying for some time now that many of the current "features" people like to say are poorly designed are designed that way because of Tivo patents and that certainly appears to be the case. It will take some time to develop other ways to do those same things without infringing on the patents, but that tends to happen eventually. I think Tivo-lovers may really be disappointed if your cost estimates hold true. Many of us pay around $10 for recording service and I'm not sure how many are willing to pay $10 more just for a little more convenience, I know I'm not though I'm sure there are some.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
vegggas, that is very interesting stuff. Many of us who use cable have been saying for some time now that many of the current "features" people like to say are poorly designed are designed that way because of Tivo patents and that certainly appears to be the case. It will take some time to develop other ways to do those same things without infringing on the patents, but that tends to happen eventually. I think Tivo-lovers may really be disappointed if your cost estimates hold true. Many of us pay around $10 for recording service and I'm not sure how many are willing to pay $10 more just for a little more convenience, I know I'm not though I'm sure there are some.

Dave, you haven't been spoiled. You see the 8300 with eyes that have never been exposed to TiVo. So you see the 8300 in a whole different light.

My cable bill is going up at the end of this month because all the promos that I got initially are expiering. Do I want to pay 10.00 more a month? Heck no. Would I though?

I just asked my wife if she would be willing to pay 10.00 more for TiVo service on our DVR. Now we are talking about a FEMALE who isn't into technical toys. She didn't hesitate, she said yes.

That's how big of a difference there is in the two services. It's a bit more then a little convenience.:)

Vegggas thanks for the patent explanations. It makes sense and really does explain why the 8300 may not ever be able to do some of the things TiVo does.

yep..tivo ois much more "grown up" than the sa8300hd that i am using right now....

now only if we could get the sa people to make their package a little more mature and sortof like a wanna be tivo, i think that would be could....i dont think it is likely but a guy can dream..correct??

anyhow

Martin out

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Barco 801S, Centerstage CS2 w/SDi,Infocus X1,SA8300HD DVR/STB,AMD64 HTPC/HCPC, kenwood vr8070 receiver and the rest of the audio system is also kenwood!!! (looking for a standalone dvdplayer to modify with SDI...)
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Hey Phoenix Cox DVR users, just got a postcard from Cox saying that on April 20th they will be doing "some technical upgrades" that could affect scheduled recordings. They recommend rescheduling recordings for channels 2-99. Anyone have any idea what these upgrades are? Sounds like it affects all DVRs, not just HD since it is not specific. Maybe it affects the IPG?

Not really the right thread for this discussion, but I suspect that may be when the digital simulcast channels go live, though I'm not sure just what impact that would have on 2-99 unless they move things around quite a bit. Thanks for the heads-up though as I rarely read what Cox sends me in the mail. :)

hookbill, I guess I am just not able to make my POV plain enough. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. There is no doubt in my mind that if I had previously used a Tivo, I would be disappointed in the recording options available on the 8300. I'm disappointed the way it is, but I choose to look at the positives and try to help folks get the most out of the unit and service.

My only point in all of these discussions has been, and still is, that it is pointless to "flame" SA and the 8300, especially in THIS thread. There are any number of technical and legal reasons why the 8300 is the way it is at the moment. The SA programmers are NOT inept, the hardware is not lame because some options aren't available or because the cableco can't get their act together, and the cost is more than reasonable to be able to time-shift 2 channels of HD.

Do I want a Season Pass? You bet!

Do I want to pay more for it? No, though maybe another $2.95 wouldn't be so bad.

Do I want a better IPG? Of course, but I'm willing to accept the difficulties cableco's face to make that happen as a group and am willing to wait a while longer as long as there is some progress and the 8300 works as advertised, at least for me.

Would I like to be able to join a program in progress and start from the beginning without getting kicked to live? Sure, but it's not a really big priority. I don't join in progress that often and when I do, I know what to expect and simply deal with it, using some of the suggestions in this thread.

The bottomline is I choose to spend my time looking at the half-full glass and enjoy my HD rather than cry all the time that I can't afford an HD Tivo and beat up on SA and the 8300 because it isn't an HD Tivo and doesn't cost me $1,000 and $12.95/mo.

I also don't enter a thread with a bunch of negative comments and then expect someone to help me. That is simply immature. If I felt the need to do that, I'd start my own thread and flame away. Others could then join me, but that really isn't as much fun as messing up a perfectly good thread with lots of helpful hints and information.

Cheers, Dave

PS. Do you have a website dedicated to your birds by any chance?

Originally posted by hookbill
Dave, you haven't been spoiled. You see the 8300 with eyes that have never been exposed to TiVo. So you see the 8300 in a whole different light.

My cable bill is going up at the end of this month because all the promos that I got initially are expiering. Do I want to pay 10.00 more a month? Heck no. Would I though?

I just asked my wife if she would be willing to pay 10.00 more for TiVo service on our DVR. Now we are talking about a FEMALE who isn't into technical toys. She didn't hesitate, she said yes.

That's how big of a difference there is in the two services. It's a bit more then a little convenience.:)

Vegggas thanks for the patent explanations. It makes sense and really does explain why the 8300 may not ever be able to do some of the things TiVo does.

It seems to me that anybody who, like hookbill and I, have had significant experience with TiVo would pay extra for its functionality in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, though, only a very, very small percentage of the TV viewing public have ever used a TiVo DVR. Cable providers know this, too. Thus, there seems little or no chance Cox is going to be willing to pay more for TiVo software than they are currently paying for Passport or SARA. I wonder what convinced Comcast to make a deal with TiVo and how much, if any, extra its subscribers will have to pay for it.

I am busy rationalizing that the 8300HD is the best of all possible worlds. :)

GW, I don't think that it's a matter of not being willing to pay more for Tivo. IMO, it's simply a matter of economics and, until the Comcast deal, I don't think Tivo was willing to talk turkey with cableco's and still might not be if it weren't for their current financial and other difficulties, whatever those are.

From what I understand, Tivo does not currently integrate well with cable systems even though it is already available as a standalone unit for anyone who wants to use it with cable and has been around for years. I could turn the 8300 coin over and ask why? Why, if Tivo is so good, does it not work well with cable? Could it be that there are technical and legal reasons? Could it be that there are so many different cable systems running different hardware/software/IPGs that it makes it difficult to integrate?

All that aside though, AFAIK there aren't many takers in the cable arena and it will take a good amount of investment to integrate it with cable, something the Comcast deal will bring to the table. Unfortunately, that may be at not only the added cost for cable subs, but at the rumored cost of inserted advertisements.

I suspect it was Tivo that brokered the deal with Comcast and made the deal smell good enough for Comcast to get in on it. If Tivo becomes the only DVR option for Comcast, the deal has a chance of working, the old "captive audience" tactic. :) However, if Comcast continues to offer SA/Moto DVRs and there is a price difference, it will be interesting to see just how many folks are willing to pay extra (and how much) for Tivo's added functions, etc.

Prior to cable DVRs, I was perfectly content with time-shifting via VCR with the VCR Commander. All I had to do was select a program from the IPG and it would be recorded, all at no extra cost. I periodically looked at Tivo and ReplayTV in stores like Fry's, but I didn't really see a need to buy the unit and pay the monthly fee, no matter what added functionality they offered in the way of the Season Pass, etc. These added features all look and sound great, but they still don't make me want to pay extra even though I'm sure I would enjoy them.

I know that I am fortunate in that the 8300 and Cox Cable here in Phoenix work for me and my viewing habits. Others are not so lucky and are rightfully looking for a solution to their woes.

But, the biggest thing I just don't understand is if you and others are so willing to pay extra for Tivo/Tivo functions and are so "distraught" that Tivo is not a cable option, why do you have cable and not DirecTV/Tivo in the first place? And don't say it's because of the high cost to buy the hardware and get hooked up, can't get a signal, etc. If that is the case, then you are only willing to pay so much for Tivo/Tivo functionality. And, I'd be willing to bet that almost none of you have screamed at Tivo for not working with cable like you scream at SA and cable for not adding Tivo functions to the 8300. :)

And, hookbill's right, I haven't been spoiled by Tivo. But, if I had been and I was in the same boat as he is (can't get a sat signal), I doubt I'd come into a thread like this raising holy h*ll like some folks do instead of calmly asking how to do something or asking why the 8300 can't do something and then listening to the explanations without getting all bent out of shape about it. Even though you and hookbill have lost your Tivo functionality, I don't see you two screaming at SA or the 8300. You both appear to understand there are reasons for the situation that exists and, like me, are willing to work around the imperfections to do what is most important, record HD. :)

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ

But, the biggest thing I just don't understand is if you and others are so willing to pay extra for Tivo/Tivo functions and are so "distraught" that Tivo is not a cable option, why do you have cable and not DirecTV/Tivo in the first place? And don't say it's because of the high cost to buy the hardware and get hooked up, can't get a signal, etc. If that is the case, then you are only willing to pay so much for Tivo/Tivo functionality. And, I'd be willing to bet that almost none of you have screamed at Tivo for not working with cable like you scream at SA and cable for not adding Tivo functions to the 8300. :)

Dave, first I think we all understand your POV. Not only do I understand, I agree with your POV.

Having said that I will now comment on the D-TiVo thing. When I lived in Northern Kentucky I did have D-TiVo and when I moved to NE Ohio it was my full intentions to have it installed here (pre hd). The reason it isn't is because I live in a very rural area and I have many many trees. It blocks the sattelite.

As bad as cable was in this area, and at the time with only analog stations for the first 100 channels I started to look into HD. Now all in all I'm pretty happy with what I have. I get more HD content then if I was with Direct TV. And even if I was with Direct TV they are getting rid of TiVo soon and coming up with their own software.

As far as I'm concerned the 8300 is just fine. No arguments from me on how you feel about it, and I sure hope you didn't think I was flaming it (although I do get a little irrate when something goes wrong).

In regards to my birds, no, I don't have a web site but if your really interested in seeing them pm me with your email address and I'll do a film for you with my brand new phone/camera/recorder and shoot you a copy to your address.

Edited to add: the stand alone TiVo's while they do have the HMO capabilities are single tuners. I need dual tuning. I don't know about that part that says they don't intergrate well with cable, I believe they do, but you have to pay like 13 dollars a month for the service.

I'll pass on that and take the 8300, dual tuner, cheaper price.

I had a PM about my tivo pricing post being so high or being close to $10 extra for the service. I was reminded that the earlier deal that Tivo rejected was for something like $1 per subscriber.
To clarify, that was a deal for EVERY basic subscriber (23 million?) each month, regardless of DVR functionality or service to use the Tivo features (search, etc) on all STB's. I'm not sure what the new deal is, but it was rumored to be a per STB fee for paid use of service. This brings the total number of users on the service down to just a small percentage of subscribers. The trade off being those that choose the service, pay for it a-la-cart instead of a global user fee.
Imagine if 1$ was the agreed price for every subscriber in the global pricing strategy. In the per user pricing strategy, if only 10% used the service, then the price increase would be 10x higher to compensate for the break even point. Thus, the assumption of a $10 fee.

This is all still conjecture and should not be taken as fact in any way. This is just part of the rumors and basic economics with NO details known about the pricing structure between the two parties.
End Of Post
vegggas

hookbill, I'm glad someone understands my POV, agreement is just a bonus. You (and others) have been very positive and helpful in this thread, including helping me understand more about how Tivo actually works and what we are missing. I understand why you have cable and I also understand wishing you could have Tivo too. My irritation is only with those who choose to rant and do not provide anything meaningful to the thread. FWIW, I think I've carried this discussion to the extreme, but I can't seem to quit responding to posts. Unfortunately, there is nothing new in the way of tips to discuss, so if nothing else, our little discussion keeps the thread alive. :)

vegggas, I find that very interesting, the PM, not just the $ figures.

I long ago eliminated D* from consideration, despite the availability of the HD TiVo and NFL Sunday Ticket. The reason I decided to stick with Cox is two-fold: (1) Cox provides both my telephone and high speed Internet service, which means that I get a substantial discount on my total monthly bill and pay only a single bill for telephone, Internet, and cable, all three; and (2) the HD TiVo costs almost $1,000, which makes it exponentially more expensive that the 8300HD, which costs only $9.95 a month. The combination of economy and convenience provided by Cox is simply too great to ignore, despite the palpable superiority of the TiVo software.

I see that often, gw, and those are the same reasons I have Cox, though I never did try DirecTV or Dish. I was tempted to give sat a try way back when it first came out, but the big drawback for me was what it took then to connect multiple rooms, only 4 at the time. I didn't even like the added costs for that through cable back then, but I was always able to find a way around paying them more. :)

I suspect the reason some get so irate about the 8300 is that they made the decision to use cable without doing their homework to see if cable offerings met their needs. Then, when they found the 8300 didn't provide all of Tivo's features, they realized they may have made a mistake and would rather rant excessively than revisit their decision and the reasons for that decision. Hookbill, you, I and others have all done the math and made the determination that the 8300 and cable provides a service we can live with for the price. If money were no object, I might even switch, though I'm not convinced that sat actually offers any more, even with their single-bill partnerships, etc.

I would like to say that one thing I've noticed with the latest SARA software is a reduced number of video and audio glitches, both live and recorded. Mind you, I never did have all that many, but they were there nonetheless. We've got the windows and doors open and there is a nice breeze coming through the house. After trimming a tree, cutting branches into firewood, and breaking apart an old dresser to put in the trash, we've been sitting here most of the day (since about 10:00) catching up on recorded programs and have not experienced a single glitch as yet. Believe it or not, we've watched 3 movies (The Missing, Pieces of April, and Spartan) and skimmed through 5 episodes of Paula's Home Cooking. We are now on our 4th movie (House In Umbria) and then we'll be all caught up for this week, and ready to start anew tonight. :)

Noticed one thing that would have annoyed me (had I not caught it in time). I wanted to record 2 episodes of Smallville this morning, but HDnet did not have it listed correctly, so it was just showing as a 6 hour long block of HDnet preview (or something like that). I set up a manual recording for 10-12 (the time Smallville was scheduled to air). I woke up this morning to find that it had recorded some random crap from 6-8 as HDnet had changed their scheduling to include the Smallville airings at 10-12 (with correct time and show info). I then had to re-setup the 10-12 recordings to get Smallville correctly.

Originally posted by Lampei
Noticed one thing that would have annoyed me (had I not caught it in time). I wanted to record 2 episodes of Smallville this morning, but HDnet did not have it listed correctly, so it was just showing as a 6 hour long block of HDnet preview (or something like that). I set up a manual recording for 10-12 (the time Smallville was scheduled to air). I woke up this morning to find that it had recorded some random crap from 6-8 as HDnet had changed their scheduling to include the Smallville airings at 10-12 (with correct time and show info). I then had to re-setup the 10-12 recordings to get Smallville correctly.

Interesting. I noticed that INHD had incorrect listings today. My IPG and ZAP2IT listed a Yankee/Orioles game that never came on. I thought maybe rain so I checked a couple of times in the day. I happen to check at 4:00 (eastern) and what do I see but the Dodgers and Padres which wasn't even listed on ZAP2IT or my IPG. This was a bonus for me because I'm a Dodger fan. I checked INHD's listings and they had the correct listings so I don't know what went wrong with my IPG or ZAP2IT. I was tickled to watch the Dodgers in HD with fantastic 5.1 sound.

Guess I'll add my 2 cents, as both a current Tivo user (bedroom) and a 8300HD user.

I sold the living room tivo and got my 8300HD when I got my first HDTV a few months ago. Wasn't willing to pay $1000 to DTV for HD Tivo, plus I got a good bundled package through my cableco with broadband and HDTV (Adelphia in Atlanta, GA).

While its clear that Tivo has the better interface and slicker features, the one thing that makes the 8300HD stand out in my mind (beyond just being able to record HD, which is why I got it), is the fact that it has dual tuners. This feature has freed us up so much in terms of being able to record the shows we want. With Tivo, they pretty much had to add all of those fancy prioritization features, because you use them so much, meaning all the time you'll run into conflicts in your recording schedule due to the one tuner. My wife would gripe at me so much because if Tivo is recording something, you either watch that show, or something in the queue. If there's nothing there you want to watch, you're pretty much out of luck. I had to cancel several season passes because of this, she'd get so angry because she'd go to bed and want to watch tv but I'd have tivo recording some news show that she had no interest in.

Prior to my 8300, I had to use 2 separate tivo units to get all the shows I wanted to see, because so many overlapped with each other (especially these shows that now go a few minutes past the hour, what a pain). I had my tivo's connected wirelessly, where you could move shows back and forth (say from the bedroom to the living room), but this is painfully slow over a wireless network, can't watch real time (tivo doesn't support 802.11g, only b).

As for my experience with 8300, I think mine has been much closer to DoubleDaz than the others. I've never had any significant problems, never lost a recording except for user error. Had bad breakup when it was first installed, but a HDTV cable signal amplifier and some high grade RG-6 fixed that.

I do hope that Adelphia (or whoever ends up taking over for Adelphia, i.e. Time Warner or Comcast) continues to improve the interface for the 8300 and fix some of the annoying bugs, but for now it does the job I need it to do (with the help from this thread and others).

DN

Originally posted by DN7335
Guess I'll add my 2 cents, as both a current Tivo user (bedroom) and a 8300HD user.


I do hope that Adelphia (or whoever ends up taking over for Adelphia, i.e. Time Warner or Comcast) continues to improve the interface for the 8300 and fix some of the annoying bugs, but for now it does the job I need it to do (with the help from this thread and others).

DN

Yes, dual tuner is a big plus for the 8300 and cable users over TiVo.

I see your fairly new to the forum, and welcome. Keep in mind that the cable company really doesn't have anything to do with the 8300, other then perhaps setting up the source for the IPG. Scientific Atlanta is the developer.

And in case your not aware Time Warner and Comcast have both bought Adelphia, so it just depends on who's coming to your area. Comcast has a pretty good DVR from what I understand already and in the next 18 months they will be offering TiVo to their customers. If they do it will be similar to Direct TV with dual tuner options.

Well, when I see posts about Tivo being so much better than the 8300, I mostly assume folks are talking about the HD Tivo, which has dual tuners. But certainly dual tuners is a big plus compared to any single-tuner DVR.

This is the first time anyone has said that Tivo's priority scheme actually gets in the way, but I can see how that can happen if there are 2 people with varied viewing likes and dislikes. I think the Multi-Room units being developed/released will go a long way toward providing even more viewing options and minimize such conflicts.

TiVo's priority scheme should not be a problem if -- but only if -- you remember how it works when you prioritize your Season Pass list.

I have had much less pixelation on my 8300HD since I delete a show immediately after watching it. I only keep a few shows at a time on the unit to avoid breakups, and am now basically only using it for channels that I can't get with D* such as INHD and a couple networks.

The HD Tivo is great, and dual tuners make it fantastic. I have never had a scheduling error with it (unlike the 8300hd) and it is so much easier to use, navigate, skip comercials, watch from the beginning of a show while recording the same show, delete shows, save shows, schedule shows, find shows in the list etc. etc. etc..........

Originally posted by hookbill

And in case your not aware Time Warner and Comcast have both bought Adelphia, so it just depends on who's coming to your area. Comcast has a pretty good DVR from what I understand already and in the next 18 months they will be offering TiVo to their customers. If they do it will be similar to Direct TV with dual tuner options. [/B]

Yes I'd heard about the Adelphia sale. I'm hoping that it will be Comcast who gets my area, makes sense because they are already in the Atlanta market, while I don't believe that TW is. Comcast advertises all the time and they are offering some really neat services such as VOD. Ideally, they would come in and offer an upgraded 8300 with the Tivo software. Wouldn't that be nice?

DN

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Well, when I see posts about Tivo being so much better than the 8300, I mostly assume folks are talking about the HD Tivo, which has dual tuners. But certainly dual tuners is a big plus compared to any single-tuner DVR.


Interesting, in my reading I hadn't made the same assumption. To me its very hard to compare a box that costs $1000 to something you get for $10 a month. Also the HD Tivo is only for DirecTV, while all of us 8300 users are cable. When comparing the cable Tivo to 8300, including cost of service and capabilities, the 8300 is quite attractive.

Something else that people may not know is that the Tivo boxes (cable, don't know about the HD tivo) encode all video signals, even for live tv thats not being recorded. Normally this is fine (even though there is a slight picture degradation), however I ran into a problem when using it with an FTA satelite receiver. I ran the video from the sat receiver to the Tivo, and the SPIF digital sound from the sat receiver directly to my audio receiver. But, because of the encoding, the video you are watching is about 1/2 second behind live. When I played the audio that was going directly to the audio receiver, it was out of sync with the video! Took me forever to figure out what was going on. Because Tivo doesnt offer pass through SPIF, I had to basically do without digital sound. My trusty 8300 records the full digital sound so I can run the signal from the 8300 to the audio receiver, problem solved...I do wish the 8300 could accept line in signals, but I understand the business reasons why it doesn't.

DN

I don't think there is anything very controversial in the HD TiVo v, 8300HD comparison. Phil's and DN's posts pretty much spell out the strengths and weaknesses of each. If you limit the comparison to the software of each box, the 8300HD is bad, almost embarrassingly bad, in comparison to the HD TiVo. But the HD TiVo is almost insanely expensive compared to the 8300HD and you have to be a D* subscriber to be able to use one, anyway. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

I wonder if Tivo is ever going to be as aggressive as Gemstar was when it comes to patent lawsuits. If they did I wouldn't be shocked it they sued SA over the "join in progress" capability that the 8300's have now. Not saying they would win, but that doesn't mean a lawsuit can't be filed. There are some hardcore Tivo devotees that believe Tivo should be filing lawsuits against almost every cable company DVR because they figure at least one of the Tivo patents is being violated with some feature.

Also I may have found the answer to why the pause before being kicked out of live sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The pause has worked for me only when the main tuner is on the channel that is being recorded prior to the start time of the recording. It worked for me last night anyway.


I also wonder how the market is going to change once cablecard is more prevelant. Tivo is planning for a cablecard HD Tivo for sometime next year.

Originally posted by Azlen
I wonder if Tivo is ever going to be as aggressive as Gemstar was when it comes to patent lawsuits. If they did I wouldn't be shocked it they sued SA over the "join in progress" capability that the 8300's have now.

Your the first one I've heard of that has that.

Originally posted by hookbill
Your the first one I've heard of that has that.

Meaning that you can rewind to the beginning and watch it from there, while the show is being recorded. It's not something you can do with a VCR. It's the workaround we have been discussing, not a full feature. But if a Tivo lawyer thought that the workaround was close enough to Tivo's patent, then a lawsuit could be filed.

Len, I doubt if they can even patent that part of the "feature". IMO, there is no way they can forcibly lock you out from tuning to the channel that is being recorded, it's live TV after all. The sticky part could be in allowing REW to work, but from what I understand, they patented the "start from the beginning" part of the "join in progress" feature and that's all. Of course, that could be wishful thinking on my part I suppose. :)

DN, the reason I said that is because comparing a single-tuner, non-HD Tivo to a dual-tuner HD 8300 is kind of pointless IMO, mainly for the reasons you stated. I think most people would take the 8300 over the other inspite of the reduced feature-set simply to be able to time-shift 2 channels of HD.

Up until the Comcast deal, cable believed Tivo wanted too much money to license their feature-set. If it was $1 per cable subscriber, I'm sure all of us would gladly pay that $1. But, it wouldn't be very fair to pass the total cost to every subscriber, so it would probably be limited to DVR users. I suspect the actual cost to each DVR user would then be much more. I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes from the Comcast deal and what they get for their money.

Originally posted by Azlen
Also I may have found the answer to why the pause before being kicked out of live sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The pause has worked for me only when the main tuner is on the channel that is being recorded prior to the start time of the recording. It worked for me last night anyway.

That's the way it works. The main tuner is using the buffer AND being recorded. As long as you are viewing the buffer, you have 1 hour of timeshifting, independent of the recording. I frequently will have the main channel set to something I want to record that lasts 1 hour.Once it starts, I hit pause. At that point, I will hit LIST and switch over to the DVR channel, but the buffer will still be in progress. I can choose a half hour program, which usually lasts about 20 min, or an hour program that lasts about 40 min. At the end of my pre-recorded show, I will punch in the channel number where I paused, and begin viewing where I left off at the paused point. At the end of the program, it doesn't kick me out because it's in the buffer, UNLESS it needs to change the channel for dual recording. A single recording will happen in the background. This is almost a nightly ritual for me and works about 95% of the time. I can watch multiple primetime shows in the span of a few hours, depending on how many commercials there are to skip over.

vegggas

Thanks for the explanation, vegggas, I've added it to the first post in this thread. I've always wondered why it worked some times and not others, now I know.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Len, I doubt if they can even patent that part of the "feature". IMO, there is no way they can forcibly lock you out from tuning to the channel that is being recorded, it's live TV after all. The sticky part could be in allowing REW to work, but from what I understand, they patented the "start from the beginning" part of the "join in progress" feature and that's all. Of course, that could be wishful thinking on my part I suppose. :)


From what Vegggas posted the Goldwasser patent covers devices that simultaneously record and play back video with a time delay between recording and playback of a video segment, which the 8300 is capable of doing. The "start from beginning" part isn't mentioned there.
Again, I am not saying that Tivo should sue or that Tivo will win if they did, I am just saying that if Tivo started to get aggressive with their patent defense, I wouldn't be shocked if they filed a lawsuit against SA.

Originally posted by Azlen
From what Vegggas posted the Goldwasser patent covers devices that simultaneously record and play back video with a time delay between recording and playback of a video segment, which the 8300 is capable of doing. The "start from beginning" part isn't mentioned there.
Again, I am not saying that Tivo should sue or that Tivo will win if they did, I am just saying that if Tivo started to get aggressive with their patent defense, I wouldn't be shocked if they filed a lawsuit against SA.
The 8000/8300 starts viewing a LIVE recording in progress and allows viewing within the 1 hour buffer window only. The Goldwasser patent protects the start at any point in a curent recording, but does not prohibit viewing within the buffer memory.

vegggas

Well, I guess it might be wishful thinking on my part then, but it sure sounds to me like they get around the patent by working within the buffer and not the recording itself. FWIW, I wonder just how much scrutiny the patent has been through to begin with. It seems to me, as others have said, this "feature" is something assumed in every DVR and seems to be a natural function of the DVR itself. I thought things like that couldn't get a patent.