There was also a similar problem on Rogers Cable up in Canada where sometimes their Guide would contain "(HD)" and some scheduled recordings would get missed because of it.

Rogers still has this problem occasionally, but I learned to be careful and check everything to avoid losing a recording. I've called and complained a couple of times, but I'm not sure it's registering. I don't know how Rogers (or any other cable company) gets its program data, so the cable company may be at the mercy of a third party provider.

Rogers still has this problem occasionally, but I learned to be careful and check everything to avoid losing a recording. I've called and complained a couple of times, but I'm not sure it's registering. I don't know how Rogers (or any other cable company) gets its program data, so the cable company may be at the mercy of a third party provider.
I'm sure the cableco is at the mercy of the provider, but they are the only one who can contact the right people to get things like this fixed. I'm not sure how the providers get their data, but at some point it has to come from the programming source. I think Cox gets their data from Tribune. In my first post, there is this reference from the 1.89.x.x release notes:
NEW Flag now displayed in IPG (displays on date/time line in Menu and on last line of Program Description). Note: requires Tribune Data Version 2, otherwise all programs may be listed as NEW.

Can someone provide an explanation for the strange behavior I am about to describe? The 'problem' is not severe. This is primarily of academic interest to me; but I am completely baffled by something that happens with local commercials which TW Austin is inserting into the data streams for some HD feeds (ESPN in particular).

Lately the locally inserted commercials appear to be 480i upconverted to 720p (most of the time). Indeed, if you are watching in Pass-Through mode, the output format for the local commercials stays at 720p and the original SD picture appears pillar boxed. (There was a period when they were actually inserting 480i data streams and the output format _would_ change.) To observe the weird symptom, you must do something a bit strange - namely lock the DVR into a Fixed output format of standard width 480i or 480p while watching a feed (or recording) from, say, ESPN2-HD. ESPN's picture appears letterboxed in the 480 line picture. When ESPN is showing upconverted SD material, the original SD picture appears pillar boxed relative to the (letter boxed) wide picture. But when a local commercial comes around, the window boxing (combination of letter and pillar boxing) disappears and the original SD image for the commercial fills the entire 4:3 480 line output.

(I actually get into the strange state in a somewhat more logical, though more convoluted, fashion: When ESPN2-HD is showing an upconverted SD show, I use the Zoom-1 Picture Size because my HD set is a 4:3 CRT. I have configured the DVR to know that I have 4:3 screen. As far as I can tell, what this means is that the DVR is expected to override "Pass-Through" when I select the Zoom-1 Picture Size and output the picture in a true 4:3 480-line output format (480p in my case). Anyway, that is how it does behave; and that is how I want it to behave so that I can use my entire screen. (The DVR seems to do a very good job of downconverting an HD picture that was derived by upconverting SD; and the encoding on the HD data stream is consistently better than that on the SD feed for the same station (ESPN2 for my examples).))

The behavior I observe seems impossible. How can what is ostensibly a 720p data stream in both cases behave differently? How does the DVR know that the locally inserted data stream is different and come to 'think' that it is appropriate to drop the window boxing? The only theory I have been able to come with is to suppose that there is a way of embedding 480i encoding in what claims to be a 720p data stream. ESPN is not using any such mechanism - sticking with a pure 720p encoding - while TW is doing the unusual thing. This supposition seems like a reach to me. However, even if we assume that it is so, then the fact that the DVR drops the letter boxing when it sees such a data stream could be perceived as a fault in the DVR. (In my case, the Zoom-1 Picture Size is interpreted relative to the full-screen 4:3 picture in the commercials so that they show up fuzzy with a lot of overscan. Rarely a problem, since I don't often want to watch the commercials anyway. But this behavior would seem to be definitely wrong for the DVR.)

For still more detail on the strangeness, check out the thread in which the following message appears at Yahoo Groups: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cable/message/34144
That particular message is the one most closely related to the mystery; but others in the thread may cast additional light on what is going on.

If someone does have an explanation for how this can occur, then I am bound to learn something interesting about TV encodings. Any pointers would be appreciated.

I have had my SA8300HDC for approx 3 months. I am running HDMI via pass through. All has worked well and I have been pleased up until the last week. All of a sudden, I am randomly encountering what appears to be a blip in the signal followed by the program being broadcast blinking on and off the screen goes black and then comes back on over and over at about the pace of a blinking yellow traffic light. At first, I thought it was isolated to HD channels, however, it has occurred on SD channels as well. I can change the channel and then return to the previous channel and it will clear. Or I can watch it and boil while it seems to eventually encounter the blip again and correct itself.

I have hard booted the 8300 several times but this random blinking continues to strike. I pulled the HDMI and plugged it back in to ensure the connections were tightly seated. I wonder if this is a Time Warner issue or my issue....

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

I have had my SA8300HDC for approx 3 months. I am running HDMI via pass through. All has worked well and I have been pleased up until the last week. All of a sudden, I am randomly encountering what appears to be a blip in the signal followed by the program being broadcast blinking on and off the screen goes black and then comes back on over and over at about the pace of a blinking yellow traffic light. At first, I thought it was isolated to HD channels, however, it has occurred on SD channels as well. I can change the channel and then return to the previous channel and it will clear. Or I can watch it and boil while it seems to eventually encounter the blip again and correct itself.

I have hard booted the 8300 several times but this random blinking continues to strike. I pulled the HDMI and plugged it back in to ensure the connections were tightly seated. I wonder if this is a Time Warner issue or my issue....

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

I had the same problem crop up with HDMI. Do you have some component cables to try?

Big - yea I have component cables.... I wanted to utlize HDMI for obvious reasons. The HDMI is a new 1.3a from MonoPrice...

I dont specifically think its the cable but the SA8300's inability to work bug free with HDMI. I found out today that my neighbor has been experiancing a similar issue. I am scheduled for FIOS install on 5/19. By fall of this year I will have FIOS TV. Guess I will have to revert to component until then. Hopefully Verizons box will handle HDMI without issue.

Thanks.

Big - yea I have component cables.... I wanted to utlize HDMI for obvious reasons. The HDMI is a new 1.3a from MonoPrice...

I dont specifically think its the cable but the SA8300's inability to work bug free with HDMI. I found out today that my neighbor has been experiancing a similar issue. I am scheduled for FIOS install on 5/19. By fall of this year I will have FIOS TV. Guess I will have to revert to component until then. Hopefully Verizons box will handle HDMI without issue.

Thanks.The HDMI "problem" is due to problems on both ends: Both the TV and the source must work together. It does seem that cable boxes have a harder time working with certain TVs though. My SA8300HD on SARA is rock solid via HDMI with my Sony KDS-55A3000.

I have had my SA8300HDC for approx 3 months. I am running HDMI via pass through. All has worked well and I have been pleased up until the last week. All of a sudden, I am randomly encountering what appears to be a blip in the signal followed by the program being broadcast blinking on and off the screen goes black and then comes back on over and over at about the pace of a blinking yellow traffic light. At first, I thought it was isolated to HD channels, however, it has occurred on SD channels as well. I can change the channel and then return to the previous channel and it will clear. Or I can watch it and boil while it seem

I have an 8300HD (not 8300HDC) and I have sometimes had a similar problem with my Toshiba monitor, using the HDMI connection. Sometimes I'll turn on the TV and the picture will starting blinking a reddish overcast every few seconds. I believe this is some kind of HDMI-handshaking problem, and the only thing that works when this happens is to turn off the TV and the monitor, unplug the cable box's AC power cord for about a minute, then plug it in and wait till it reboots. Turn on the TV first and then the cable box, and the problem goes away. Well, it works for me--have you tried this?

Yes - I have hard booted the SA8300, but the blinking issue still randomly returns. My LCD is a 5 month old Sharp and was working as well in a 'rock solid' capacity until a week ago. Not sure why all of a sudden after 3 months the HDMI craps out. Do you guys think that component PQ is on the same level as HDMI? Maybe I am nuts, but I feel the PQ via HDMI is slightly better??? I reluctantly switched back to component this evening :(

If it's only "slightly" better, it doesn't seem worth dealing with the HDMI hassles. "Slightly" better tells me there might be just a hint of wishful thinking. :)

Anway, there are so many who say it's better and there are just as many that say they can't tell. There are all kinds of opinions on whether or not it even "should" technically be better and so much depends on the setup. If your TV retains separate brightness, contrast, etc., settings for the HDMI Input and the Component Input, that could account for some difference. Or, just the fact that the signal goes though a different series of conversions could account for some difference. With all the recompression and multicasting that is going on today, I seriously doubt your viewing experience will be jeopardized by the "slight" IQ difference. :)

I think the Component vs HDMI PQ can go both ways. Here in Concord, CA I have Astound Broadband and was convinced that the Component picture was noticeably better compared to the HDMI picture. Then a few weeks ago I was helping my neighbor set-up their box. They have the same box and same cable company but a Samsung LCD instead of my Sharp LCD. On his set, the PQ is very similar with either Component or HDMI, with a very slight advantage on HDMI. I think it really depends on the setup. It might be just the TV or maybe some box to box differences as well.

Double - yea, its likely a bit of wishful thinking on my part. Its just really nice to have one cable address a/v rather than several. My Sharp does have the capability to use differing settings per input. I had to make some slight video adjustments for compoent vs. HDMI as mirroring the HDMI settings for component definatley produced a darker viewing experiance than I wanted. No biggie...

Question - My DVD player is an older Sony that supports only component or s-video. Now that my TV's component slots are dedicated to the SA8300 STB, can I use the SA8300's Output 2 slots and connect my DVD to it as a pass though for movie viewing? Is that possible? Or should I just purchase an s-video cable and call it good?

Thanks for your responses and feedback.

PLEASE,

We are here to help. And we need your cooperation to be at our best.

Read the first post-Most answers are there! At least the simple ones. We believe our first post is unique among all threads in the amount of information it contains and in it’s easy readability!

Read the last two pages-The most recently discussed problems are there. They are also the most recently developing problems. Do not read every page, that will only drive you crazy. Older pages likely contain outdated information.

An efficient search will help. Try to use just one highly significant word. For tips on searching or any general questions, please PM me or the ID of a frequent poster, or a high post count, or any member. We may use different terminology!

If you can’t find your answer or are not sure you understand it, ask in any way you are comfortable. Try to be brief-Think of the next new person reading this thread.

Tell us where you (or the person with the problem) are-City and State.

Tell us what equipment you are using-HDMI? -All makes and models, and include your video provider (i.e. Comcast, DirecTV)

Be patient-It may take a few days before the best qualified member to answer your question “picks up.”
THANK YOU!

Bob:)
Comcast-SA8300HD & SA4250HDC-SARA 1.89.22.2/1.61.5.108-PhilipsBRBurner (CyberLink Software)

Double - yea, its likely a bit of wishful thinking on my part. Its just really nice to have one cable address a/v rather than several. My Sharp does have the capability to use differing settings per input. I had to make some slight video adjustments for compoent vs. HDMI as mirroring the HDMI settings for component definatley produced a darker viewing experiance than I wanted. No biggie...

Question - My DVD player is an older Sony that supports only component or s-video. Now that my TV's component slots are dedicated to the SA8300 STB, can I use the SA8300's Output 2 slots and connect my DVD to it as a pass though for movie viewing? Is that possible? Or should I just purchase an s-video cable and call it good?

Thanks for your responses and feedback.

I don't understand your question. The 8300 OUTPUT outputs live or recorded programs. If you want to watch a DVD from your player, that has nothing to do with the 8300. Connect it via composite or s-video- which is supposed to be a little bette- to your tv.

I don't understand your question. The 8300 OUTPUT outputs live or recorded programs. If you want to watch a DVD from your player, that has nothing to do with the 8300. Connect it via composite or s-video- which is supposed to be a little bette- to your tv.ACTUALLY, the SA8300 with SARA WILL connect his DVD player to the output. There is a composite video (with L-R audio) input on the front panel. The input must be 480i, but the 8300 will connect it to the TV via any of the outputs(including HDMI, if your set will accept 480i inputs - some don't). The VIDEO SOURCE button selects it.

It is possible that some systems don't have this feature enabled, (or that the OP's remote does not have this button) but it is a feature that most don't realize that is there.

ACTUALLY, the SA8300 with SARA WILL connect his DVD player to the output. There is a composite video (with L-R audio) input on the front panel. The input must be 480i, but the 8300 will connect it to the TV via any of the outputs(including HDMI, if your set will accept 480i inputs - some don't). The VIDEO SOURCE button selects it.

It is possible that some systems don't have this feature enabled, (or that the OP's remote does not have this button) but it is a feature that most don't realize that is there.

I'm not sure that was what he was asking, but yes, at least on my box and remote I can switch to AUX input for the front panel composite inputs. Not sure why this would be better than just connecting the DVD to the TV, but whatever.

I'm not sure that was what he was asking, ....Yeh, it wasn't clear to me either - but I thought I should point that capability out there, in case it was.

For what it's worth, the Aux inputs will scale video to whatever resolution you want, depending on how you set up the STB.
I can switch and scale an Aux input between 480i/p 720P and 1080i to see if one looks better than an other, compared to a direct connection to the display and it's scaler.

vegggas

Sorry that I wasnt clear on my question. Your responses helped.... :)

I have my settings set to normal, 16:9, output at 1080i always. For some reason when I exited the guide, the picture in the top right did not readjust to fit the whole screen. It just stayed at the top right and the rest of the screen [where the guide was] was black. A reboot of the SA DVR fixed this, but I don't want to have to reboot everytime this happens. Also, it's worth noting that if I type in a new channel or select one from the guide, then the picture does readjust to fill the screen. However if I were to press guide again, and then leave the guide while remaining on the same channel, then the picture would get stuck at the top right again. Anyone else experience this or know any way to fix it [other than rebooting]?

I have my settings set to normal, 16:9, output at 1080i always. For some reason when I exited the guide, the picture in the top right did not readjust to fit the whole screen. It just stayed at the top right and the rest of the screen [where the guide was] was black. A reboot of the SA DVR fixed this, but I don't want to have to reboot everytime this happens. Also, it's worth noting that if I type in a new channel or select one from the guide, then the picture does readjust to fill the screen. However if I were to press guide again, and then leave the guide while remaining on the same channel, then the picture would get stuck at the top right again. Anyone else experience this or know any way to fix it [other than rebooting]?I have seen that happen. The next time you need to reboot, try a hard reboot which is explained in the first post. Hopefully, that might prevent it from happening as often, but I really don't know if that will make a difference. In the meantime, just keep changing the channel so it fills the entire screen.

I have seen that happen. The next time you need to reboot, try a hard reboot which is explained in the first post. Hopefully, that might prevent it from happening as often, but I really don't know if that will make a difference. In the meantime, just keep changing the channel so it fills the entire screen.

I just realized my DVR is a SA 8300 HDC actually so possibly I'm in the wrong thread. I've been looking around avsforum and from what others have stated it's a problem with how the device was programmed (see link below).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13021208

I'll try the hard reboot method, but I'm considering swapping the DVR to the SA 8300 HD version, which is older from what I've read. I'd rather go with the old and have no problems, as this is really annoying. How often do they have updates for these DVRs though? I can wait and hope for an update to address this issue too......

I just realized my DVR is a SA 8300 HDC actually so possibly I'm in the wrong thread. I've been looking around avsforum and from what others have stated it's a problem with how the device was programmed (see link below).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13021208

I'll try the hard reboot method, but I'm considering swapping the DVR to the SA 8300 HD version, which is older from what I've read. I'd rather go with the old and have no problems, as this is really annoying. How often do they have updates for these DVRs though? I can wait and hope for an update to address this issue too......If you have SARA, you are in the right thread. If you also have Comcast though, there might be some more specific Comcast-related info in that other thread. There is not really a thread dedicated to the HDC.

I doubt seriously you are going to see any more updates to SARA. AFAIK, Comcast and others (Cox here) are migrating to Passport for all their platforms. Cox is projecting that will be released here by the end of the year, but never say never.

I too have heard of that problem, but I don't recall if the "hard" reboot resolved it or not. Sometimes folks try what we suggest and then never report back, but it certainly can't hurt anything. Some folks still reboot these boxes once a month or so, but I don't know if that really helps or not.

If you have SARA, you are in the right thread. If you also have Comcast though, there might be some more specific Comcast-related info in that other thread. There is not really a thread dedicated to the HDC.

I doubt seriously you are going to see any more updates to SARA. AFAIK, Comcast and others (Cox here) are migrating to Passport for all their platforms. Cox is projecting that will be released here by the end of the year, but never say never.

I too have heard of that problem, but I don't recall if the "hard" reboot resolved it or not. Sometimes folks try what we suggest and then never report back, but it certainly can't hurt anything. Some folks still reboot these boxes once a month or so, but I don't know if that really helps or not.

I looked at the "how to determine your software" thing on the front page and apparently I have "navigator." Anyway I did the hard reboot thing several hours ago and the "picture stuck at top right" problem came back. So I guess that's not a fix, for me at least.

Right now I've decided to have my output resolution to automatically select "480i, 480p, 780p, 1080i"...earlier I had it set on always "1080i"...hoping this works...

I looked at the "how to determine your software" thing on the front page and apparently I have "navigator." Anyway I did the hard reboot thing several hours ago and the "picture stuck at top right" problem came back. So I guess that's not a fix, for me at least.

Right now I've decided to have my output resolution to automatically select "480i, 480p, 780p, 1080i"...earlier I had it set on always "1080i"...hoping this works...

Are you using HDMI cable to connect the DVR to the TV, like I am? It may be a "handshake" problem between the two caused by the DVR firmware.

I have the new Navigator on an SA8300HDC box and have had the same problem with the picture "sticking" in the upper right corner of the screen when exiting the guide. I believe it is a bug in the Navigator software. Is your firmware Net ver. 2.4.9_3? I reset my output resolution to automatically select "480i, 480p, 780p, 1080i", just as you did, and earlier I had set it to "1080i" only. This did not fix the problem. When going into the guide or settings, it switches itself back to 720 or 480 somehow and sometimes freezes the picture up in the corner, still. I think it will take another software revision to fix it, but in the meantime, there is no reason to reboot the box when it happens and wait 5 minutes for it to come back on. I have just gone into Settings when it happens, scroll right to "Display", up one to "Output Resolution" and uncheck the other resolutions and reset the 1080i setting option. The new resolution setting tests itself on your set, with "can you see this picture" displayed, then press "A" to accept and it comes back to full screen @ 1080i. Exit the "Settings" function and you are good to go until the next time it does it. Others have said you can enable PIP and it will return to full screen, but I haven't tried that myself.

This whole push from TWC to switch from Passport to Navigator has been a huge clusterf@#k, and it will take some time for them to get it sorted, unfortunately.

TT

I looked at the "how to determine your software" thing on the front page and apparently I have "navigator." Anyway I did the hard reboot thing several hours ago and the "picture stuck at top right" problem came back. So I guess that's not a fix, for me at least.

Right now I've decided to have my output resolution to automatically select "480i, 480p, 780p, 1080i"...earlier I had it set on always "1080i"...hoping this works...There is a thread for the Navigator software. Click on Nav in my signature to go to the start of that thread. Then you can go to the end of the thread and search for your problem. Good Luck on solving it!

There is a thread for the Navigator software. Click on Nav in my signature to go to the start of that thread. Then you can go to the end of the thread and search for your problem. Good Luck on solving it!Both of those posts should be moved to that thread or at least cross-posted there so the discussion can move there. :)

BTW, where has you been Russ? I noticed you weren't posting much in the HOTP thread either lately. Glad to see you back.

I have new problem with my SA8300HD with SARA 1.89.22.2 software. Or, at least I can't find mention of it in the last 10 pages or so here.

My box has has been working quite well for the last year or so when Roger's implemented the fixes that came with 1.89.xx.xx but 4 times since April 16th my box has locked up when I tried to play a previously recorded program while two new shows were being recorded. The lockup (hang) isn't total as the two recordings continue but none of the buttons on the remote or the box will do anything. The only way to interrupt it is to pull the power cord out of the back.

What happens when I hit "play from beginning" is the screen goes black and then nothing happens other than the recordings continue and the clock keeps the correct time. If I let it just sit, after about 2 minutes or so the display will say booting and then after the 2 to 3 minute boot I can power the box back on and display either of the current recordings which restarted again. If try to play anything from the recorded list it locks up again. Even the Hard Boot caused by pulling the power cord didn't fix it. Once the recordings finished or were cancelled everything went back to normal and I could view any program from the recorded list. The problem is not easily reproducible as I could start up new recordings and still play previous recordings.

What I did notice the last two times it happened is that in each case one of the current recordings was the same SD channel and recording the same program, Monk. Could this be related or simply a coincidence?

So my quesiton is, do I have a hardware problem or is it likely some bug introduced with the latest SARA release 1.89.22.2?

Thanks,

Robiin

I don't think it is a hardware problem.

I think it is a software problem, but I am not sure it was introduced by 1.89.22.2. I have this version and most of the time I don't have problems recording two shows and watching a recording, but once it froze when it started recording two shows and I was not watching any show. It may be a combination of 1.89.22.2 and software specific to your cable company, but it is impossible for me to know for sure.

Just pulling the plug and plugging it back in is not a hard reboot. The hard reboot requires you to press the power key when you plug it back in, see the first post for more information about a hard reboot.

. . .
BTW, where have you been Russ? I noticed you weren't posting much in the HOTP thread either lately. Glad to see you back.Thanks

My mother fell and broke her hip on March 16, so I have been spending a lot of time visiting her in the hospital and then at the rehab center. Also, she had to go back to the hospital to have her gall bladder removed during this time.

The Houston Chronicle cut way back on their Television coverage about 9 months ago so I don't have much new information to post in the HOTP thread. I haven't seen a story from Mike McDaniel for a long time. For example, in today's Houston Chronicle there is story "Political passions help SNL hit its stride" by Tom Shales of the Washington Post. Most of the Television coverage are reprints from other newspapers and fredfa has already posted the story from the original source. I have kept up with the threads but haven't posted much.

It seems like the number of postings in this thread has slowed down. I think that is because there hasn't been a new SARA release in about a year and a half and there may not be a new release of SARA or its replacement for a long time.

RussB,

Sorry to hear about your mom, I trust she is recovering okay.

I agree on the reason for the slowdown in posts here. We all know posts go way up whenthere are things to complain about. :)

I don't expect to see a new version, ever. Cox is moving to Passport and whatever NGS comes up with, so SARA will be a thing of the past for me by the end of the year. Others are getting gatorized, so they have moved on, mostly. ;)

RussB,

Sorry to hear about your mom, I trust she is recovering okay.

I agree on the reason for the slowdown in posts here. We all know posts go way up whenthere are things to complain about. :)

I don't expect to see a new version, ever. Cox is moving to Passport and whatever NGS comes up with, so SARA will be a thing of the past for me by the end of the year. Others are getting gatorized, so they have moved on, mostly. ;)Any inside scoop on what I might expect from Time Warner down the road?

Any inside scoop on what I might expect from Time Warner down the road?Nope, just whatever they decide to do to Navigator. Me? I have unwarranted faith that they will fix the problems and make significant enhancements, but it will take time. If it weren't for triple-play, I think most cableco's would be out of business or suffering way more than they are. But then, that's rather obvious, isn't it? :)

RussB,

Sorry to hear about your mom, I trust she is recovering okay.

I agree on the reason for the slowdown in posts here. We all know posts go way up whenthere are things to complain about. :)

I don't expect to see a new version, ever. Cox is moving to Passport and whatever NGS comes up with, so SARA will be a thing of the past for me by the end of the year. Others are getting gatorized, so they have moved on, mostly. ;)My mom is doing better now, she is 91. For a while after the operations, she had no appetite but several weeks ago she started eating everything on her plate. Today, she used a walker for the first time since she went to Rehab. Before today, she only walked between two parallel bars. Most of the time she is either in bed or in a wheelchair.

I think Comcast is going to use Tru2Way, but I don't know their plans or schedule.

Most of the time she is either in bed or in a wheelchair.Mine had severe osteoporosis and was that way for a couple of years before she passed last October at 83. She lived in Wisconsin and I didn't get home for the funeral, but I did spend time with her that summer and am thankful for that time.

I think Comcast is going to use Tru2Way, but I don't know their plans or schedule.So is Cox and getting schedules is harder than pulling teeth with a pliers. We're finally getting VOD here and we're supposed to be up to 80 HD channels by the end of the year, though people are betting against that. Oh well, I've got plenty to watch, so it doesn't bother me that much.

My box has has been working quite well for the last year or so when Roger's implemented the fixes that came with 1.89.xx.xx but 4 times since April 16th my box has locked up when I tried to play a previously recorded program while two new shows were being recorded. The lockup (hang) isn't total as the two recordings continue but none of the buttons on the remote or the box will do anything. The only way to interrupt it is to pull the power cord out of the back.
When the signal strength is too high or low the box seems to work overtime and slows down the response time to external controls. If this is the problem it should be happening more often, but that may be a function of how frequently you use the system.

Check the signal strength by going into the diagnostic menu (see the tips in the first post). If the signal is low, you may have to remove a splitter or replace one with an amplified splitter. If it is high then adding a splitter should help.

I have new problem with my SA8300HD with SARA 1.89.22.2 software. Or, at least I can't find mention of it in the last 10 pages or so here.

My box has has been working quite well for the last year or so when Roger's implemented the fixes that came with 1.89.xx.xx but 4 times since April 16th my box has locked up when I tried to play a previously recorded program while two new shows were being recorded. The lockup (hang) isn't total as the two recordings continue but none of the buttons on the remote or the box will do anything. The only way to interrupt it is to pull the power cord out of the back.

What happens when I hit "play from beginning" is the screen goes black and then nothing happens other than the recordings continue and the clock keeps the correct time. If I let it just sit, after about 2 minutes or so the display will say booting and then after the 2 to 3 minute boot I can power the box back on and display either of the current recordings which restarted again. If try to play anything from the recorded list it locks up again. Even the Hard Boot caused by pulling the power cord didn't fix it. Once the recordings finished or were cancelled everything went back to normal and I could view any program from the recorded list. The problem is not easily reproducible as I could start up new recordings and still play previous recordings.

What I did notice the last two times it happened is that in each case one of the current recordings was the same SD channel and recording the same program, Monk. Could this be related or simply a coincidence?

So my quesiton is, do I have a hardware problem or is it likely some bug introduced with the latest SARA release 1.89.22.2?

Thanks,

Robiin

Interesting problem. Thanks for bringing it up. I haven't seen it in central Toronto, which is also Rogers of course.

I have watched one recording while recording 2 others many times. I'll keep a watch on it here and if anything comes up, I'll let you know.

Any inside scoop on what I might expect from Time Warner down the road?
I spent some time on the phone with TWC tech support here in San Diego yesterday, and they said they are expecting to put out a major update to the Navigator software "this summer." That could mean anytime from now until Labor Day, I suppose.

TT

^^^
Technically summer doesn't end until September 22nd.:cool:

A friend just purchased a Samsung DLP set (model T5076s; this is a 1080i set). It's connected to his SA8300-HDC box via HDMI. The picture is horizontally stretched (some call this "sports bar mode"), regardless of whether the channel is 4:3 or is broadcasting in 16:9 HD format. His Picture Size is set to 16:9 using the TV's menus. I went through the "quickie" setup for the STB, choosing the "wide-screen" and HD options, which should send everything to the TV in 1080i. However, everything continues to be stretched. The "aspect ratio" button on the remote has absolutely no effect on what happens onscreen.

I also noticed that in the settings menu for the cable box, the choices match what you typically get with a component video hookup (Pass Through, Fixed, Upconvert 1, Upconvert 2), and the "Auto DVI/HDMI" option that you get with an HDMI hookup is not there. Furthermore, the TV does not show a hi-rez picture. It looks like a 480i picture, whether he's tuned to an HD channel or not.

After looking in the TV's manual, I figured out that I should probably go into the TV menu and set the Picture size option to Just Scan, but this option is grayed out and not selectable. Any ideas on where the problem might lie?

A friend just purchased a Samsung DLP set (model T5076s; this is a 1080i set). It's connected to his SA8300-HDC box via HDMI. The picture is horizontally stretched (some call this "sports bar mode"), regardless of whether the channel is 4:3 or is broadcasting in 16:9 HD format. His Picture Size is set to 16:9 using the TV's menus. I went through the "quickie" setup for the STB, choosing the "wide-screen" and HD options, which should send everything to the TV in 1080i. However, everything continues to be stretched. The "aspect ratio" button on the remote has absolutely no effect on what happens onscreen.

I also noticed that in the settings menu for the cable box, the choices match what you typically get with a component video hookup (Pass Through, Fixed, Upconvert 1, Upconvert 2), and the "Auto DVI/HDMI" option that you get with an HDMI hookup is not there. Furthermore, the TV does not show a hi-rez picture. It looks like a 480i picture, whether he's tuned to an HD channel or not.

After looking in the TV's manual, I figured out that I should probably go into the TV menu and set the Picture size option to Just Scan, but this option is grayed out and not selectable. Any ideas on where the problem might lie?

The problem is that he has the cable box set to send everything in 1080i. So 480i 4:3 programs are sent out as 1080i. The TV sees all 1080i as 16:9, so not knowing the difference, it displays everythig in "Sports Bar Mode" (I LOVE that term :)).

He should first go through the Set Up Wizard and enable at least 480i Standard, 720p and 1080i. Then set the settings menu to Auto DVI/HDMI mode.

The end of the STB???? "A leading television manufacturer, Sony Electronics Inc., and the National Cable and Telecommunications Association said Tuesday they signed an agreement that will allow viewers to rid themselves of set-top boxes, yet still receive advanced "two-way" cable services, such as pay-per-view movies."

Wonder what that will mean for DVRs? They say that consumers will still be able to attach TIVO type devices to their TV. So, I guess to have a DVR one will have to have a cable card equipped model. Seems to me that DVRs are growing immensely in popularity, why bother to get rid of the STB if you have to have a box to have a DVR anyway? Am I missing something?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080527/ap_on_hi_te/cable_boxes_3

The end of the STB???? "A leading television manufacturer, Sony Electronics Inc., and the National Cable and Telecommunications Association said Tuesday they signed an agreement that will allow viewers to rid themselves of set-top boxes, yet still receive advanced "two-way" cable services, such as pay-per-view movies."

Wonder what that will mean for DVRs? They say that consumers will still be able to attach TIVO type devices to their TV. So, I guess to have a DVR one will have to have a cable card equipped model. Seems to me that DVRs are growing immensely in popularity, why bother to get rid of the STB if you have to have a box to have a DVR anyway? Am I missing something?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080527/ap_on_hi_te/cable_boxes_3I am probably wrong, but I simply read this as tru2way-enabled HDTVs. I would hope that some day all we will need to do is attach an HDD to the TV to get DVR capability. This is just another reason for me not to "buy" a DVR yet.

The end of the STB???? "A leading television manufacturer, Sony Electronics Inc., and the National Cable and Telecommunications Association said Tuesday they signed an agreement that will allow viewers to rid themselves of set-top boxes, yet still receive advanced "two-way" cable services, such as pay-per-view movies."

Wonder what that will mean for DVRs? They say that consumers will still be able to attach TIVO type devices to their TV. So, I guess to have a DVR one will have to have a cable card equipped model. Seems to me that DVRs are growing immensely in popularity, why bother to get rid of the STB if you have to have a box to have a DVR anyway? Am I missing something?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080527/ap_on_hi_te/cable_boxes_3

There are other ways to implement a "DVR" within the TV's electronics. Mitsubishi and a few other companies did this with it's firewire equipped displays and firewire hard disk drives. Integrated displays could easily have eSATA or another interface to store programming. This puts the onus back on the manufacturers to develop better interfaces to switch between the cable company IPG/interface and a custom one from the manufacturer. Ths is better described in the Tivo release where you can use 2-way interface from cable or the one way Tivo interface on their new STB's.
Anyway, with everything ever being broadcast eventually stored as VOD, why would you even need a DVR again ;););)
vegggas

Does anyone know of internal settings which can reposition the PIP beyond the preset locations?

I would like to relocate the PIP closer to the edge of the screen.

Thanks

Does anyone know of internal settings which can reposition the PIP beyond the preset locations?

I would like to relocate the PIP closer to the edge of the screen.

Thanks
IIRC, the PIP positions are as far left/right as they can be, given the hardware limitation of the internal graphics device, similar to the 4:3 guide area.

v/r,
C-F

I am probably wrong, but I simply read this as tru2way-enabled HDTVs. I would hope that some day all we will need to do is attach an HDD to the TV to get DVR capability. This is just another reason for me not to "buy" a DVR yet.

I haven't taken a look at this thread in quite sometime. What with SDV, and Navigator software it looks like SARA will soon become a nightmare from the past. Only problem seems to be is that Navigator is an even worst nightmare.

First, I'm not going to get into any reasons why you personally would not purchase a DVR. If mine worked, which it didn't I wouldn't have either.

Second if you read the article you will see that this technology will support TiVo's and other DVR's. It also will use a cable card! Now wait a second, isn't that the root of the whole problem here?

Why would these major cable companies sign contracts with SONY who as far as I know had one very bad DVR to their credit. It would seem more logical to me that Cisco, AKA SA would be the ones to carry the banner so to speak since they have spent so much time and energy into developing Navigator and SDV.

The only logical theory on that article is that Scientific Atlanta has produced such a bad piece of hardware and software with the SA 8300HDC the cable companies have fired them and went with SONY.

Which raises the question of CAN they fire them? If they have a contract with TW, Comcast, etc. I don't think a major company like Cisco, who does have huge internet experience would just say OK and walk away from the table.

Also there is the point Vegggas brings up. What happened to the "all On Demand" idea, no DVR required?

Sony also says that they will start implementing that technology in their new televisions but does not say when. Now I like Sony a great deal, I have bought their products for years. My last HDTV in my living room was a Sony Wega. But what about other manufactures. Are they intending on using this technology on their sets? Nobody knows.

I haven't searched around that much but to the best of my knowledge the only mention of this "agreement" is in this one AP article that appears on Yahoo. AP is a very reliable source, but even the best can make mistakes.

One more thing to think about: The article ends the the FCC saying "no comment." Yes, the FCC would be involved but wouldn't CableLabs be the one who would decide on this?

Well, I know you usually don't appreciate my comments Dave, and that's why I stay out of here. But I would like to leave you with this final statement. Both my S3 and TiVo HD are working fine, both have eSATAs and I'm still happy to have spent every penny of the 900.00 I put out to get rid of that SA 8300. No regrets because of price drop, or TiVo's TiVo HD which I have as well.

Good luck with that Navigator stuff. I understand it's a real piece of work.:p

Second if you read the article you will see that this technology will support TiVo's and other DVR's. It also will use a cable card! Now wait a second, isn't that the root of the whole problem here?There is no indication that CableCARDs are the root of the whole problem here. Bad software is bad software.

Why would these major cable companies sign contracts with SONY who as far as I know had one very bad DVR to their credit. It would seem more logical to me that Cisco, AKA SA would be the ones to carry the banner so to speak since they have spent so much time and energy into developing Navigator and SDV.Apparently you don't recognize that Sony is only the latest one to sign up for "tru2way". Previous CE companies signing up are:

Samsung
Toshiba
Panasonic
LG


The only logical theory on that article is that Scientific Atlanta has produced such a bad piece of hardware and software with the SA 8300HDC the cable companies have fired them and went with SONY.The agreement is NOT for Sony to provide boxes (where did you get that idea?), just for Sony to produce sets that will be fully operational in a "tru2way" cable system without the need for a cable box. I believe that the other Dave see's the possibility of set's in the future with a jack for an external drive that enables the TV to become a DVR. That concept has been used before (RCA for one).

Also there is the point Vegggas brings up. What happened to the "all On Demand" idea, no DVR required? You must be talking about the original networked DVR concept. It was ruled illegal by the courts (copyright infringement). On Demand can only be used when the copyright holder grants permission.

Sony also says that they will start implementing that technology in their new televisions but does not say when. Now I like Sony a great deal, I have bought their products for years. My last HDTV in my living room was a Sony Wega. But what about other manufactures. Are they intending on using this technology on their sets? Nobody knows.Where have you been? Head buried in the sand or something? The above manufacturers have demonstrated sets with this technology at this year's CES. In fact, a couple (Samsung & Panasonic) showed at last year's CES!

I haven't searched around that much but to the best of my knowledge the only mention of this "agreement" is in this one AP article that appears on Yahoo. AP is a very reliable source, but even the best can make mistakes.AP was only reporting what was on a joint Sony/Cable Labs announcement (http://www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2008/ncta_sony_pr.pdf).

There is no indication that CableCARDs are the root of the whole problem here. Bad software is bad software.

Apparently you don't recognize that Sony is only the latest one to sign up for "tru2way". Previous CE companies signing up are:

Samsung
Toshiba
Panasonic
LG


The agreement is NOT for Sony to provide boxes (where did you get that idea?), just for Sony to produce sets that will be fully operational in a "tru2way" cable system without the need for a cable box. I believe that the other Dave see's the possibility of set's in the future with a jack for an external drive that enables the TV to become a DVR. That concept has been used before (RCA for one).

You must be talking about the original networked DVR concept. It was ruled illegal by the courts (copyright infringement). On Demand can only be used when the copyright holder grants permission.

Where have you been? Head buried in the sand or something? The above manufacturers have demonstrated sets with this technology at this year's CES. In fact, a couple (Samsung & Panasonic) showed at last year's CES!

AP was only reporting what was on a joint Sony/Cable Labs announcement (http://www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2008/ncta_sony_pr.pdf).

Just a couple of comments.

First thank you for that link. This as far as I'm concerned makes it legitimate.

I never said anything about Sony making a box. I just said that the technology would work with those who have STB's. Actually I said DVR's but you get my point.

As far as the CES goes, this is the first I have heard about it but to be honest I usually just concern myself with TiVo stories at the CES. Not head burried in the sand, just probably as unaware as an average consumer. Many peopl still don't know (somehow) about television going digital in 2009.

About the on demand thing, I wasn't aware of that decision. I think it's a good decision. I was wondering why everybody stopped talking about it.

So thanks for educating me, I appreciate it.

But what you are saying, if I understand you correctly that the cable cards currently used are bad technology. And the technology behind those cards are either Motorola or Scientific Atlanta, correct?

With CableLabs blessings I can see easily how the cable companies can give the boot to SA. Perfect sense.

And as far as other companies signing up for this technologies that article I read said Sony. It didn't mention any other companies. I was just going by what I had read.

I really do appreciate the response.

And I still love my TiVos. I guess if anything my head has been burried on what's going on with them. I wasn't aware of what else was happening.

But what you are saying, if I understand you correctly that the cable cards currently used are bad technology. And the technology behind those cards are either Motorola or Scientific Atlanta, correct?Well, I said:
Originally Posted by davehancock Originally Posted by hookbill
Second if you read the article you will see that this technology will support TiVo's and other DVR's. It also will use a cable card! Now wait a second, isn't that the root of the whole problem here?
There is no indication that CableCARDs are the root of the whole problem here. Bad software is bad software.I can't see how that can be read as my saying ""the cable cards currently used are bad technology". I do not think that they are. They have a specific purpose, and they fulfill that purpose. Other than cost, there is nothing wrong with CableCARD technology itself. Just because there was not a bi-directional specification for use of CableCARDs, doesn't make the technology bad. Now that there is a bi-directional spec ("tru2way") the CableCARD technology can be more fully utilized.

I haven't taken a look at this thread in quite sometime. What with SDV, and Navigator software it looks like SARA will soon become a nightmare from the past. Only problem seems to be is that Navigator is an even worst nightmare.It's well known that SARA is being replaced by 3 things (at leaat on Cox); a tru2way version of Passport, the Tivo-ported software for an added cost when it finally becomes available for the Cisco units, and a new WS IPG beig developed by NGS, possibly also for an added cost.

First, I'm not going to get into any reasons why you personally would not purchase a DVR. If mine worked, which it didn't, I wouldn't have either.Can't argue with that.

Second if you read the article you will see that this technology will support TiVo's and other DVR's. It also will use a cable card! Now wait a second, isn't that the root of the whole problem here?I did read the whole article and all I see is "Customers will still be able to attach their own devices — like TiVo digital video recorders, according to the NCTA." AFAIK, they are talking about CableCard 2.0 and tru2way technology and the Cc 2.0 specs are still be written. But it is a plus to have a commitment from Sony to include the technology in their HDTVs. As it is now almost all HDTVs have abandoned CableCards because of the current problems and one-way limitations.

Why would these major cable companies sign contracts with SONY who as far as I know had one very bad DVR to their credit. It would seem more logical to me that Cisco, AKA SA would be the ones to carry the banner so to speak since they have spent so much time and energy into developing Navigator and SDV.As I said, all I see is CC 2.0 technology in Sony HDTVs being talked about here, not a new round of Sony DVRs.

The only logical theory on that article is that Scientific Atlanta has produced such a bad piece of hardware and software with the SA 8300HDC the cable companies have fired them and went with SONY.Have no idea how you read that in the article. We're still only talking CC 2.0/tru2way in HDTVs, that's all.

[qiuote]Which raises the question of CAN they fire them? If they have a contract with TW, Comcast, etc. I don't think a major company like Cisco, who does have huge internet experience would just say OK and walk away from the table.[/quote]Again, I see nothing in the article remotely talking about current or future Cisco hardware or even software.

Also there is the point Vegggas brings up. What happened to the "all On Demand" idea, no DVR required?There never has been anything to suggest that all content will be provided via VOD. vegggas was simply saying that if and when all content becomes available via VOD, then he sees no need for DVRs ,and I'd have to agree with him. However, we are not even close to that happening yet. I don't know of a single content provider who puts all their content on the VOD schedule. Most add it to the schedule for a certain period of time, like 30 days, and then replace it with something different.

Sony also says that they will start implementing that technology in their new televisions but does not say when.I would expect as soon as the specs are completed and that is certainly not going to be tomorrow.

Now I like Sony a great deal, I have bought their products for years. My last HDTV in my living room was a Sony Wega. But what about other manufactures. Are they intending on using this technology on their sets? Nobody knows.That was the last point in the article, "The cable association said it was hopeful other electronics manufacturers will also agree to use the same technology."

One more thing to think about: The article ends the the FCC saying "no comment." Yes, the FCC would be involved but wouldn't CableLabs be the one who would decide on this?The FCC is the one who foinsted cablecards on the cable industry because they wouldn't wait for DCAS and they wanted more competition. Howver, CC has not provided that competition and CC 2.0 is stalled. Cable hopes this agreement will do 2 things; keep the FCC off their backs long enough and get CC 2.0 moving by involving a major HDTV manufacturer.

Well, I know you usually don't appreciate my comments Dave, and that's why I stay out of here.That is simply not true, hookbill. I always appreciated your comments and enjoyed our banter until you, and more so, 2 of your "friends", took things to a personal level, some for the sheer joy of it. I simply got tired of arguing with the mods here when I was asked about the 3 of you. They can't possibly mod every thread and they left me to holler for help when things got out of hand. Someone must have complained at some point because the next thing I knew I was being questioned and then the 3 of you left some time after that. Your leaving may have been a coincidence because that was around the time you got your Tivo and no longer had SARA. I even wanted to discuss birds with you, but that was not to be, sigh......

But I would like to leave you with this final statement. Both my S3 and TiVo HD are working fine, both have eSATAs and I'm still happy to have spent every penny of the 900.00 I put out to get rid of that SA 8300. No regrets because of price drop, or TiVo's TiVo HD which I have as well.As I said many times, I'm happy for you. I'm sure I'd be quite happy had I done the same thing, but you know I have difficulty with Tivo as a company and do not ever expect to buy any product from them, though my thoughts have mellowed somewhat since they are working hard with cable to get their software out there.

Good luck with that Navigator stuff. I understand it's a real piece of work.:pI do not and never will have Navigator. I will most probably start with the tru2way Passport when it replaces SARA next year and then evaluate the WS IPG from NGS when it comes. However, I am also looking at DirecTV as I near retirement and a significant amount of travel.

And, did you really need to stick out your tongue???? :)

Edit: After reading The Other Dave's comments, I do hope they are only talking about tru2way and not CC 2.0. My belief is that they still want DCAS for security and I hope that supercedes the need for CC 2.0. I'm also hopeful vegggas will chime in with some comments, his sources are certainly better than my opinions based on what I read in various places.

I've been noticing for a while that there are some "HD" channels like 305 TBSHD in Houston which seemed to be some type of odd stretched format. Anyway, when you try to fast-forward or fast-rewind it is really, really slow and choppy for these oddball HD channels. What is the story on these channels?
Thanks...

But what you are saying, if I understand you correctly that the cable cards currently used are bad technology. And the technology behind those cards are either Motorola or Scientific Atlanta, correct?I also don't think CC is a bad technology, but just like HDMI, the specs have been implemented differently in various devices resulting in some problems. Sometimes these can be resolved by changes to the DVR software, other times it takes changes to the device software, and still other times it takes a hardware upgrade. Like the DVR, CC technology gets the blame, even though there are hardware/software combinations that work just fine and this tells me the specs are fine. The fact that cable techs are not properly trained, etc., also doesn't have anything to do with the specs, but the CC still takes the hit. I hope you see my point.

With CableLabs blessings I can see easily how the cable companies can give the boot to SA. Perfect sense.I don't know where you are getting this. I know of no move to replace Cisco or Motorola as sources for hardware. With tru2way, it is hoped others will follow through and join the foray, but Cisco and Motorola are still welcome AFAIK and I fully expect them to compete. The names mentioned are simply others that have voiced a commitment.

I've been noticing for a while that there are some "HD" channels like 305 TBSHD in Houston which seemed to be some type of odd stretched format. Anyway, when you try to fast-forward or fast-rewind it is really, really slow and choppy for these oddball HD channels. What is the story on these channels?I don't know about slow FF/REW, but many "HD" channels still broadcast a lot of SD content. To make it "look" like HD, they stretch it to fill the screen and you'd be surprised how many people are fooled by this. Sometimes customer complaints get them to broadcast a clean signal, but TBS seems to be the worst offender at the moment.

I recommend everyone take the time to know what Tru2Way, OpenCable and DCAS are. This could be very important. You can go to Wikipedia and read up on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCable
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System

I'm not sure what will be replacing my SA8300HD, but I expect these new standards will impact my choices - someday.

I'm not sure what will be replacing my SA8300HD, but I expect these new standards will impact my choices - someday.I'm counting on it. I want to be able to walk into Best Buy (or wherever) and see a half-dozen or more options just like with VCRs and DVD players. Once that happens, I'll know the technology will have matured to where we won't have to put up with early-adopter problems any longer. Now, just when things get to a stable point, some upgrade comes along and it seems we start all over. Just look at the folks with Passport staring down the eye of Navigator and shortly it will be TWC SARA users. We here with Cox face getting some version of Passport and will have to learn things all over again. That is not the sign of a mature system, but once these things go retail, things will have to stabilize or they will fail.

dunno if this is the best place to post this, as it regards the remote and not the box itself, however...

I am having troubles with the remote and my DVD player. I dont have the model but it is the "standard" Comcast DVR 3-Device remote. I had to use a code that wasnt listed as "standard", 21769. only some of the remote keys seem to be mapped to the DVD (play-control keys, up/down/left/right keys) while every other key when pressed seem to go to the CABLE BOX and not the DVD Player (DVD led lights up and not the DVD led on remote). is this becuase those keys arent mapped with my code, or do I need to "unlock" those keys so they are sent to the DVD and not CABLE? specifically I would need to "unlock" the SELECT/OK key at a minimum

(fyi I am using this with a toshiba hd-a3 and it plays HD-DVD disks but w/o the OK key I cant play standard DVD using the remote. I will be getting a harmony but until then want to get this remote to work for at least minimal functionality)

I also don't think CC is a bad technology, but just like HDMI, the specs have been implemented differently in various devices resulting in some problems. Sometimes these can be resolved by changes to the DVR software, other times it takes changes to the device software, and still other times it takes a hardware upgrade. Like the DVR, CC technology gets the blame, even though there are hardware/software combinations that work just fine and this tells me the specs are fine. The fact that cable techs are not properly trained, etc., also doesn't have anything to do with the specs, but the CC still takes the hit. I hope you see my point.

I don't know where you are getting this. I know of no move to replace Cisco or Motorola as sources for hardware. With tru2way, it is hoped others will follow through and join the foray, but Cisco and Motorola are still welcome AFAIK and I fully expect them to compete. The names mentioned are simply others that have voiced a commitment.

You know we actually agree on this. I don't really believe cable card technology is the problem, it's the lack of training and understanding by installers.

When my cable cards were installed in the TiVo's I screamed, hollered, had a fit before they even got out here. As a result they sent a supervisor who actually had TiVo's instructions printed out and in his hand. Now on the instructions it says "follow EXACTLY". And did the? No.:rolleyes:

However these guys were not dumb and they did manage to get it together and I learned alot from watching them. So when I had the install on the TiVo HD for cable cards, I emailed the President of TW NEO and complained about the time they were coming out and were they going to know what they are doing and about a previous bad experience (they moved my service office to another location). Result: I get a call from the Supervisor in my area who promises they will come out with several M cards and he is sending experienced techs. He also promises they will arrive when I get home after work which is around 6:30 pm. They show up around 6:00 and my wife doesn't know anything about DVR's let alone cable cards. Just when they got stuck however I came home. The problem? They simply don't know how to navigate through the TiVo cable card menu. So I grab the remote and 10 minutes later they are on their way.

So we agree on the cable card issue.:) And as far as Cisco getting involved after Davehancock explained it I kind of have a grasp on how they can get involved as well.

And yes I did stick my tongue out at you!:D;)

Anyway that whole thing between you and I got out of control so I'll offer a virtual handshake to you.

Question for davehancock or anyone who knows, please. Over on my local thread someone just brought up the subject of disk space. I assume this new technology won't require disk space as we understand it today. Can anyone explain that?

And one more question: What happens to satellite people? Will this technology work for them?

Question for davehancock or anyone who knows, please. Over on my local thread someone just brought up the subject of disk space. I assume this new technology won't require disk space as we understand it today. Can anyone explain that?

And one more question: What happens to satellite people? Will this technology work for them?This discussion has been drawn out a bit - so I am a little unsure of what you mean by "this new technology". I suspect that you are talking about "tru2way" (previously known as OCAP) - so that is the context of my answer.

Tru2way essentially is a replacement more universal replacement for current operating systems. The big deal is that it will work with consumer purchased equipment. Products may be DVRs (such TiVo), TV sets (like the Panny plasmas that they have demonstrated at the CES) and even set-top boxes (Samsung). Products, such as DVRs, will have hard drives, but TV sets generally won't (but that doesn't preclude Sony or someone from building in a DVR in a high end set).

Now some of the earlier discussion here referred to a networked DVR. If that is what "this new technology" that you were talking about - it, of course, would not use a hard drive at your set. But, as I indicated before, the courts have pretty much killed off this concept (incidentally, that was the original TW "Mystro"). If there were appeals that enabled this technology again, it would be able to work with "tru2way".

This discussion has been drawn out a bit - so I am a little unsure of what you mean by "this new technology". I suspect that you are talking about "tru2way" (previously known as OCAP) - so that is the context of my answer.

Tru2way essentially is a replacement more universal replacement for current operating systems. The big deal is that it will work with consumer purchased equipment. Products may be DVRs (such TiVo), TV sets (like the Panny plasmas that they have demonstrated at the CES) and even set-top boxes (Samsung). Products, such as DVRs, will have hard drives, but TV sets generally won't (but that doesn't preclude Sony or someone from building in a DVR in a high end set).

Now some of the earlier discussion here referred to a networked DVR. If that is what "this new technology" that you were talking about - it, of course, would not use a hard drive at your set. But, as I indicated before, the courts have pretty much killed off this concept (incidentally, that was the original TW "Mystro"). If there were appeals that enabled this technology again, it would be able to work with "tru2way".

First, apologies for going off topic in this thread since really this is the SA 8300 SARA thread.

Now yes, I am talking about "tru2way." My question to you or anybody who understands this technology was how does it handle storage? You were pretty clear in your original response to my sarcastic post and I thought you had a grip on how this tru2way works. So I was hoping you had an answer to the storage question.

And again thanks for educating me. True, you kind of gave me a virtual bitch slap but I deserved it.;) Still if you or anybody understands how the storage works I would appreciate an answer.

Now yes, I am talking about "tru2way." My question to you or anybody who understands this technology was how does it handle storage? You were pretty clear in your original response to my sarcastic post and I thought you had a grip on how this tru2way works. So I was hoping you had an answer to the storage question.I honestly thought I had answered the storage question. Storage (other than RAM) is not an essential part of "tru2way". A "tru2way" display (such as Sony has announced and Panasonic has demonstrated) has no storage, other than the typical system RAM and NVM [BTW, "try2way" does require MORE resources than than the legacy (Passport, SARA, etc) systems, but newer software ALWAYS requires more resources]. Of course a "tru2way" DVR will have storage for programs.

I honestly thought I had answered the storage question. Storage (other than RAM) is not an essential part of "tru2way". A "tru2way" display (such as Sony has announced and Panasonic has demonstrated) has no storage, other than the typical system RAM and NVM [BTW, "try2way" does require MORE resources than than the legacy (Passport, SARA, etc) systems, but newer software ALWAYS requires more resources]. Of course a "tru2way" DVR will have storage for programs.

So if I understand what you are telling me "tru2way" technology eliminates the necessity for a conversion box but does not replace a DVR.

If that is so then that is where my confusion was. Now I think I understand better.

I have more questions but I will stop here because it would really get us off topic. Thanks for the response.

This discussion has been drawn out a bit - so I am a little unsure of what you mean by "this new technology". I suspect that you are talking about "tru2way" (previously known as OCAP) - so that is the context of my answer.

Tru2way essentially is a replacement more universal replacement for current operating systems. The big deal is that it will work with consumer purchased equipment. Products may be DVRs (such TiVo), TV sets (like the Panny plasmas that they have demonstrated at the CES) and even set-top boxes (Samsung). Products, such as DVRs, will have hard drives, but TV sets generally won't (but that doesn't preclude Sony or someone from building in a DVR in a high end set).

Now some of the earlier discussion here referred to a networked DVR. If that is what "this new technology" that you were talking about - it, of course, would not use a hard drive at your set. But, as I indicated before, the courts have pretty much killed off this concept (incidentally, that was the original TW "Mystro"). If there were appeals that enabled this technology again, it would be able to work with "tru2way".

I thought the original TW "Mystro" concept was more of a large VOD library than a networked DVR. One of the problems TW had with the concept was getting approval from the copyright holders of the video material to rebroadcast it.

With a networked DVR, a few of the cable companies argued that they did not have to have approval from the copyright holders. They claimed the main difference between a DVR set top box and a networked DVR was the location where the material was saved. The courts did not approve the networked DVR concept and I think the issue is in the process of being appealed.

So if I understand what you are telling me "tru2way" technology eliminates the necessity for a conversion box but does not replace a DVR.

If that is so then that is where my confusion was. Now I think I understand better.

I have more questions but I will stop here because it would really get us off topic. Thanks for the response.Don't worrry about off-topic as tru2way will impact everything and it's an important topic. If there is a separate thread, I'm not aware of it, but maybe there should be.

Anyway, if you are asking if you can connect your cable from the wall directly to your tru2way-enabled HDTV and get full access to cable content, I don't know if that will be the case. There is still the issue of security and I believe you will need one of 3 things; a cable tuner (cable lease or retail purchase), a cablecard, or DCAS. tru2way (the old OCAP) will simply allow any tru2way-enabled device to work with any tru2way-enabled cableco. Devices can be leased from the cableco or purchased at retail.

I assume the first round of TVs, etc., will include cablecard slots until DCAS comes along. I am not too sure how specifically DCAS will work, so I'll defer to someone else. I guess the point is that we should finally be able to rid ourselves of the never-ending lease of cable equipment, other than cablecards anyway.

I also wouldn't rule out some new pricing scheme to make some more money off this. They charge a gateway fee, a DVR fee, and a recording fee now. For some reason, I can't believe this is going to be as simple as buying the equipment of choice and then paying only $2 or so for a cablecard.

Anyway that whole thing between you and I got out of control so I'll offer a virtual handshake to you.Right back at ya! :cool:

Don't worrry about off-topic as tru2way will impact everything and it's an important topic. If there is a separate thread, I'm not aware of it, but maybe there should be.I agree, but I believe that this discussion is quite worthwhile (hockbill, you are the perfect "straightman" here)

Anyway, if you are asking if you can connect your cable from the wall directly to your tru2way-enabled HDTV and get full access to cable content, I don't know if that will be the case.Yes, it is. You will have the same access as you will have from cable boxes. Another "extra" is the ability to run 3rd party applications (games, etc.) on any "tru2way" device. Think of it as sort of an advanced replacement for SARA (or Passport, if you prefer), or (Horrors) a version of OSN Navigator (which, unfortunately is, EXACTLY what it is).:eek:
There is still the issue of security and I believe you will need one of 3 things; a cable tuner (cable lease or retail purchase), a cablecard, or DCAS. tru2way (the old OCAP) will simply allow any tru2way-enabled device to work with any tru2way-enabled cableco. Devices can be leased from the cableco or purchased at retail.Absolutely correct (except that you only named two things).

I assume the first round of TVs, etc., will include cablecard slots until DCAS comes along. I am not too sure how specifically DCAS will work, so I'll defer to someone else. I guess the point is that we should finally be able to rid ourselves of the never-ending lease of cable equipment, other than cablecards anyway.As I currently understand it, DCAS will require that the device have a certain security chip be built into the device. Then the cable system downloads specific security software into the device that decodes the program (sort of like a built-in CableCARD).

I also wouldn't rule out some new pricing scheme to make some more money off this. They charge a gateway fee, a DVR fee, and a recording fee now. For some reason, I can't believe this is going to be as simple as buying the equipment of choice and then paying only $2 or so for a cablecard.Probably correct, but then besides the CableCARD fee, cable charges for access to the digital channels that the CableCARD receives, plus more for sports tier, premium channels and so on. Probably the only "savings" will be the digital terminal rental (currently around $7 on most cable systems. (BTW, TiVo's business model is based largely on charging a monthly "service" fee.)

Hookbill, hopefully we have given you a better understanding of OCAP/"tru2way". If not, let us know.

Yes, it is. You will have the same access as you will have from cable boxes.My point with the OP was that tru2way BY ITSELF will not allow a direct cable connection without one of the 3 items I mentioned.

Absolutely correct (except that you only named two things).No, I named 3; (1) cable tuner, (2) cablecard, or (3) DCAS (meaning the eventual built-in chip). :)

As I currently understand it, DCAS will require that the device have a certain security chip be built into the device. Then the cable system downloads specific security software into the device that decodes the program (sort of like a built-in CableCARD).That is my impression too and that is when you will be able to just connect the cable to the TV with no need for a separate tuner or cablecard. As it is now, the first units will still need a cablecard leased from the cableco for security. After DCAS, you should no longer need anything except the content from the cableco.

However, the still unknown is the software part of all this. I think we'll still end up with a basic software package, like Passport or Nav, then Tivo at an added cost, and then the NGS stuff (at least here with Cox). TWC seems to be limited to Nav and Tivo, though I'm not even sure they will allow the Tivo port. I don't recall ever reading that any of these tru2way adopters plan to develop separate software ala Tivo.

Originally Posted by davehancock
Yes, it is. You will have the same access as you will have from cable boxes.My point with the OP was that tru2way BY ITSELF will not allow a direct cable connection without one of the 3 items I mentioned.Dave, the context of my response here was that a device that is labeled as "tru2way" WILL have the same access as cable boxes. I wasn't trying to get into the details of of the physical makeup of the device.

Regarding the next comment:Absolutely correct (except that you only named two things).No, I named 3; (1) cable tuner, (2) cablecard, or (3) DCAS (meaning the eventual built-in chip). :)Perhaps we are getting all hung up in semantics here. Basically you named two things: A tuning mechanism and a security device (which is either a CableCARD or DCAS). Actually, there are probably lots of items one should include under the heading of "tuner" (MPEG decoder, return path transmitter, etc.) for "tru2way".

However, the still unknown is the software part of all this. I think we'll still end up with a basic software package, like Passport or Nav, then Tivo at an added cost, and then the NGS stuff (at least here with Cox). TWC seems to be limited to Nav and Tivo, though I'm not even sure they will allow the Tivo port. I don't recall ever reading that any of these tru2way adopters plan to develop separate software ala Tivo.Actually, as I understand it, the "tru2way" part is really a middleware thing. It needs that the cable system be able to talk "tru2way" language, and it needs a user interface/IPG (which is ODN Navigator for TW, Passport for COX (and potentially others)), and even 3rd party (TiVo, etc.). I do understand that the 3rd party user interface software has to meet the "tru2way" test criteria, and that it needs to be downloaded from the cableco server (which has been one of the bones of contention).

NCTA: Top Cable Tru2way Questions Answered

Bob Wallace
05/18/2008

Aiming to broaden its coverage beyond pure application development, the Tru2way Developers Conference at The Cable Show addressed a series of technical, marketing, consumer electronics and business challenges the cable industry believes must be met for the initiative succeed.


Tru2way promises to reshape the way cable companies do business by providing a Java-based open applications platform that enables a rich, interactive experience for viewers via TVs, set-top boxes and other devices.


While the Tru2way specification is set, many questions need to be answered to the satisfaction of those in the food chain. Here are a few that came up in today’s event held during with the NCTA national conference.


What is Tru2way? Tru2way is the retail marketing name for CableLabs’ long-in-the-making Open Applications Cable Program (OCAP) interactive applications development effort.


When will cablecos support Tru2way in their networks? Cable kingpin Comcast Corp. expects to have 90 percent of its network ready this year, with 60 percent of its network operationally capable in that same timeframe, said Sree Kotay, a top exec with the company. In 2009, he said he expects 50 percent of all the set-top boxes Comcast delivers services through to be able to be Java-capable.


How can Tru2way application developers create and test their wares? “Developers can get the platform and build upon it, but tools and the ability to test what they develop is what’s necessary to scale this effort,” explained Ralph Brown, CTO for Cable Television Laboratories Inc. (CableLabs), the industry group that helped create the specification.


“There are a limited number of labs in which they can work,” said Bill Helms, vice president of subscriber equipment in the advanced technology group at Time Warner Cable. “We need standalone tools so they can go work on their applications.”


Comcast’s Kotay said his company is providing source code to a sample application that developers can use to write a Tru2Way application shell. The company will run betas as part of nationalizing its software program to further assist developers.


How are customers going to get Tru2Way units? Neither Comcast, nor Time Warner Cable executives said they envision customers calling their toll-free customer service lines and ordering them. They agreed that retail chains, such as Best Buy, will handle that function.


What will the units cost consumers? Having conducted extensive consumer research, Best Buy executives believe the Tru2way units should not cost more than current units. “There should be a zero delta,” said Chad Bell, merchandise manager for the retailer’s access services area.


What’s needed to realize cable’s go-to-market plan in which it doesn’t sell direct to consumers? Comcast has done joint calls with TV OEMs, such as Panasonic and Samsung Electronics and retail chain executives in an effort to show there’s more than the cableco pushing gear through retail locations.


Do consumer electronics companies beyond TV makers see value in adding Tru2way support to their devices? “There’s no timeline for a Tru2way DVR yet,” said David Sandford, vice-president of product management for service providers at TiVo Inc. “But it’s something we’re working on.”


When will Tru2way TVs be available? “Later this year, we’ll have a line of TVs with Tru2way built in and a launch of [compatible] STBs sooner,” said Victor Carlson, director of innovation for Panasonic Corp. of North America. “We’re already working closely with the cable industry..”


The question that remains unanswered is to what extent Tru2way is embraced by the developer community. CableLabs’ Brown likened the initiative to the Google Android effort and the open network undertaking recently announced by Verizon Communications Inc.

http://www.xchangemag.com/hotnews/ncta--top-cable-tru2way-questions-answered.html

Regarding the next comment:Perhaps we are getting all hung up in semantics here. Basically you named two things: A tuning mechanism and a security device (which is either a CableCARD or DCAS). Actually, there are probably lots of items one should include under the heading of "tuner" (MPEG decoder, return path transmitter, etc.) for "tru2way". I can buy that. I just thought you misread my post at first, but now I see what your comment meant and I'd have to agree with the logic.

Actually, as I understand it, the "tru2way" part is really a middleware thing. It needs that the cable system be able to talk "tru2way" language, and it needs a user interface/IPG (which is ODN Navigator for TW, Passport for COX (and potentially others)), and even 3rd party (TiVo, etc.). I do understand that the 3rd party user interface software has to meet the "tru2way" test criteria, and that it needs to be downloaded from the cableco server (which has been one of the bones of contention).Yeah, that's kind of how I look at it too. I guess the NGS stuff is 3rd party, but it's contracted by Cox, so it really isn't what I was thinking of with that statement. I meant that even though some makers have said they will develop tru2way-enabled DVRs, etc., I don't believe any of them have said they'd offer their own IPG ala Tivo. I'm not even sure at the moment if Cisco has said they will offer a tru2way version of SARA. Rght now all I see mentioned by any cableco are Passport, Nav, the Tivo ports, and NGS. For example, I don't know what Cablevision or Charter, etc., are doing with tru2way.

Tru2way Is True Blue at the Cable Show '08

Broadband Gear Report 6/5/2008
By Laura Hamilton

Consumers have never tended to love their set-tops, so it's no surprise that the popular press jumps all over any news that hints at an impending end for the need for a box on top of the TV. Case in point is the recent announcement that was published widely that Sony Electronics was getting buddy-buddy with tru2way, and it would develop TVs that can receive interactive digital and high-def video services without a set-top box.

Sony and six major cable ops (Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Cox, Charter, Cablevision and Bright House) signed this agreement, and rather than fully rehash what you've probably already read elsewhere, here's a link to the full announcement:

www.ncta.com/ReleaseType/MediaRelease/Sony-and-Cable-Operators-Negotiate-National-Two-Way-Plug-and-Play-Solution.aspx.

Of course, this doesn't really mean the immediate end of the set-top for every consumer. Boxes are going to be around for a long, long time and even a quick jaunt around the NCTA Cable Show exhibit hall in New Orleans proved that out. The tru2way logo was virtually everywhere, and demos of set-tops that implement tru2way were as easy to secure as a drink on Bourbon Street.

Cisco showed off its next-generation tru2way set-tops, featuring DVRs with a 320 GB hard drive option, and Motorola gave demonstrations of new tru2way applications on the company's latest tru2way-compatible set-tops.

A "fully tru2way certified" solution came from Advanced Digital Broadcast by way of its latest HD cable set-top for the U.S. market, the ADB-4820C. It was specifically designed to operate with new flat panel TV sets and mounts to the back of a TV. The company reports that the ADB-4820C is the first STB solution to receive full tru2way certification and is now available for commercial deployment. The unit is fully integrated with OCAP software from Vidiom and Osmosys.

At the Pace booth, one of the company's highlights was its Tahoe TDC778X HD DVR (CableCARD and embedded CA). The company reported that this dual-tuner HD-DVR set-top box is the world's first HD DVR OCAP/tru2way-capable platform ready for deployment on existing networks without the need for costly infrastructure upgrades. As an EngineWare platform, Tahoe also has been fully integrated with the latest generation of native EPG and VOD applications. Tahoe's internal DOCSIS 2.0 modem can also provide high-speed data connections and was the industry's first set-top certified by CableLabs for DOCSIS/DSG.

Thomson highlighted its DCI9220 set-top box, an HD-capable receiver that includes an implementation of the tru2way platform. The DCI9220 supports multistream CableCARDs, and has been specifically tailored for the U.S. market with tru2way apps developed in association with Vidiom and Zodiac Interactive.

Alticast showcased several new products based on tru2way technology. This specifically included the unveiling of new tru2way set-top boxes targeting the U.S. market in addition to the tru2way set-top boxes currently deployed by Samsung at Time Warner Cable.

Samsung used the show to hail the availability of its OpenCable HD DVR for tru2way digital cable deployments. The SMT-3090 has two HD tuners capable of decoding MPEG-2, H.264, VC-1 and AC-3 content and a 160 gigabyte hard drive that can store up to 20 hours of HD content. It has a CableCARD interface and DSG modem for DOCSIS support.

Tru2way-based products featured in the Panasonic exhibit included the PCH2180 tru2way HD-DVR set-top, VIERA high-def TVs and the tru2way-enabled portable DVR model TZ-LC100. The PCH2180 is a multi-tuner tru2way set-top receiver that integrates HD video recording, a multi-stream CableCARD host interface for separable security, and a high-speed DOCSIS modem to support DOCSIS Set-top Gateway Signaling (DSG), all within a compact configuration. The PCH2180 includes support for a variety of digital video codecs including MPEG-2, MPEG-4 (H.264) and VC1. It also has the capability to incorporate a MoCA Home Networking option. The 42-inch class VIERA Plasma HDTV, which integrates a tru2way cable receiver capability within the set's chassis, eliminates the need for an outboard cable set-top box. The portable DVR (P-DVR) model TZ-LC100 lets cable customers record programming at home and take it with them wherever they go.

http://www.broadbandgear.net/archives/bgr/2008/060508/index.cfm?CFID=5632325&CFTOKEN=84954869

How would I go about clearing the recording log? I've already tried rebooting the system to no avail...

How would I go about clearing the recording log? I've already tried rebooting the system to no avail...If you are talking about the list of scheduled recordings, you need to select each one for editing and then press "B" to cancel the recordings you no longer want.

If you really want to cancel them all, the only way I know is to reformat and those instructions are in the First Post, along with several other tips.

If you are talking about the list of scheduled recordings, you need to select each one for editing and then press "B" to cancel the recordings you no longer want.

If you really want to cancel them all, the only way I know is to reformat and those instructions are in the First Post, along with several other tips.

The recording log is different from the scheduled recordings. It tells you which recordings were deleted and if it was unable to record for example. So I'm trying to figure out how to clear that. Btw, my DVR uses the Navigator software.

There used to be a way you could reboot the SA8300 by using the remote. Does anyone remember how?


Gail
Time Warner South Carolina
OS, Home Server Edition 1.8

McNasty:

You're in a SARA thread. I believe there's a separate one for Navigator.

McNasty:

You're in a SARA thread. I believe there's a separate one for Navigator.

Oh sorry about that...nvm then.......

McNasty:

You're in a SARA thread. I believe there's a separate one for Navigator.Click on the Nav link in my signature to go to the Navigator thread.

Btw, my DVR uses the Navigator software.I knew I should have asked when I saw your post count. :)

I asked in my area if anyone who has SARA has been converted to Navigator. The only response I got was from one person who has the SA 8000 with SARA and he said no. Of course he may be the only one that has an SA 8000 in the area still.:)

So this is just out of curiosity, has anyone who had SARA been converted to Navigator? The reason I ask is because it seems like people with Passport in my area either are converted or have at least one machine that has been converted and I'm wondering if it is more difficult to convert the SARA software to Navigator.

I do know that the majority of Passport people are not happy with the change. They say less guide data, they don't like the interface. Of course the interface thing may be just something to get use to, frequently people who switch to TiVo have the same problem, i.e. no pip, the biggest gripe.

So this is just out of curiosity, has anyone who had SARA been converted to Navigator? The reason I ask is because it seems like people with Passport in my area either are converted or have at least one machine that has been converted and I'm wondering if it is more difficult to convert the SARA software to Navigator.There is a reason why Passport users are being converted first, but I don't recall it at the moment, maybe something to do with SDV or something like that. Anyway, SARA users will follow and I'm sure The Other Dave will have better info if he sees this. AFAIK, he had SARA and now has Nav, that's why he's in that thread more now.

I do know that the majority of Passport people are not happy with the change. They say less guide data, they don't like the interface. Of course the interface thing may be just something to get use to, frequently people who switch to TiVo have the same problem, i.e. no pip, the biggest gripe.For whatever reason, the Nav interface seems to be based on the same initial design as SARA was and therefore was/is as limited in features. The assumption is that will change over time as they reinvent the wheel by adding more Passport/Tivo-like features, but it's slow going and there are other problems that have a higher priority. When I was following the Nav thread, it seemed like they backed up all the way to SARA 1.85.x.x and haven't made a lot of progress since.

The fact that TWC dumped Passport may have helped lower the price since Cox/Comcast are now planning to us it as their base offering. It probably didn't help that Aptiv has now changed hands twice since TWC dumped them, first Gemstar/TVGuide and now Macrovision.

There is a reason why Passport users are being converted first, but I don't recall it at the moment, maybe something to do with SDV or something like that. Anyway, SARA users will follow and I'm sure The Other Dave will have better info if he sees this. AFAIK, he had SARA and now has Nav, that's why he's in that thread more now.Unless there is another "other Dave", I think you've got something a little mixed up. I have always had SARA (and still do) and do not have Navigator (and, hopefully, never will). I do participate some in the Navigator thread, but mostly about more general cable items.

As I understand it, the principal reason that TW moved from Passport was to obtain features such as SDV and callerID. SARA already had those features, and undoubtedly costs them less than Passport did. Rather than pay more to Aptiv to obtain these needed features, TW made the decision to "roll their own".

I have not heard of any SARA based TW division switching to Navigator (and I would have noticed). There was one isolated report of a Brighthouse system switching, but I suspect that was bogus.

Thanks to both Daves.:)

I find it very interesting. I assume (yes I know) the hardware is the same but maybe not. Here's where I think we need Vegggas to jump in.

In the beginning when this buyout of Adelphia by TW happened it came with a s**tload of baggage. Adelphia had never unified it's lineup and on top of that TW had to take over the Comcast area people who had Moto boxes. Since then ex Comcast people have lost on demand, and of course they won't be getting Navigator software. They will have to get SA 8300's of course, I imagine the HDC, if that's correct, eventually.

I'm thinking the same thing may happen to people with SARA software IF the hardware is different.

I have to admit when I first heard of this conversion I thought they would convert SARA to Passport and I prayed they would so I could have a working DVR.;) Then TiVo jumped in and you know what happened from there with me.

I've got one guy on my local thread who actually thinks Sara was better then Passport and no disrespect Dave but he is the only person I ever heard say that. He has even said he would prefer SARA to Navigator. Then the next week he loves Navigator. Then a week later Navigator sucks. So let's just say he's not a "reliable" source.:)

I knew I should have asked when I saw your post count. :)

Haha! I take it that I'm lucky to have navigator. But when you all do get converted maybe you could help me figure out this recording log issue!

I've had navigator for a month now and I really don't have much to complain about aside from the fact that I can't clear the recording log. All is good.....

I'm not certain we all will. I participated in a Cox Town Hall recently where one of the questions was what would we be willing to sacrifice - detailed TV listings in favor of listings that cover a longer time ahead or maybe having only 3 days of data but with more detailed descriptions. My vote of neither was not an option.

I suppose the problem is insufficient memory in the box to have weeks of verbose data. I've seen what I believe is a related problem on both my 8300HD and my 8240HD boxes - slow performance of the TV guide and other functions. The 8240 is worse than the 8300 so I assume it has less useable memory. Is that the case?

Haha! I take it that I'm lucky to have navigator. But when you all do get converted maybe you could help me figure out this recording log issue!

I've had navigator for a month now and I really don't have much to complain about aside from the fact that I can't clear the recording log. All is good.....

Well, look at it this way. Is there only one model of a car? Of course not. You have all kinds, you got your inexpensive cars like a Chevy Malibu, then you have Cadillacs, BMW's, Rolls Royce.

Now I've never drove a Rolls so I don't know what I'm missing but I'm well aware it will probably beat the pants off a Caddy and make a Chevy look like garbage.

I'm sorry to tell you this my friend, you are driving the Chevy.:D;)

OK, maybe not and I really don't know because I've never seen Navigator. And on the internet the only time you ever hear anything is when someone is complaining so perhaps it's not as bad as I have heard.

I'm sorry to tell you this my friend, you are driving the Chevy.:D;)Maybe more like a Yugo. :rolleyes: SARA would be the Chevy (basic, but reliable).

I'm not certain we all will. I participated in a Cox Town Hall recently where one of the questions was what would we be willing to sacrifice - detailed TV listings in favor of listings that cover a longer time ahead or maybe having only 3 days of data but with more detailed descriptions. My vote of neither was not an option.

I suppose the problem is insufficient memory in the box to have weeks of verbose data. I've seen what I believe is a related problem on both my 8300HD and my 8240HD boxes - slow performance of the TV guide and other functions. The 8240 is worse than the 8300 so I assume it has less useable memory. Is that the case?

Well, before Comcast took over from TW here, I could get 2 weeks of verbose guide data. Now I only get 7 days (counting today!) Probably due to that crappy update they pushed down on us. It seems that is when it shrunk.

Thanks to both Daves.:)

I find it very interesting. I assume (yes I know) the hardware is the same but maybe not. Here's where I think we need Vegggas to jump in.

In the beginning when this buyout of Adelphia by TW happened it came with a s**tload of baggage. Adelphia had never unified it's lineup and on top of that TW had to take over the Comcast area people who had Moto boxes. Since then ex Comcast people have lost on demand, and of course they won't be getting Navigator software. They will have to get SA 8300's of course, I imagine the HDC, if that's correct, eventually.

I'm thinking the same thing may happen to people with SARA software IF the hardware is different.

I have to admit when I first heard of this conversion I thought they would convert SARA to Passport and I prayed they would so I could have a working DVR.;) Then TiVo jumped in and you know what happened from there with me.

I've got one guy on my local thread who actually thinks Sara was better then Passport and no disrespect Dave but he is the only person I ever heard say that. He has even said he would prefer SARA to Navigator. Then the next week he loves Navigator. Then a week later Navigator sucks. So let's just say he's not a "reliable" source.:)I think TW's goal is to get all of their customers on Navigator. There was talk of the conversion being done the first quarter of this year, but I think the problems with Navigator have delayed the conversion for some (most?) of TW's divisions. Tru2way is another factor in converting to Navigator. There is a version of Navigator that works with Tru2way and when TW converts to Tru2way they will use that version of Navigator. As posted earlier, SDV and Caller ID are also factors on when Navigator is needed.

I think TW's goal is to get all of their customers on Navigator. There was talk of the conversion being done the first quarter of this year, but I think the problems with Navigator have delayed the conversion for some (most?) of TW's divisions. Tru2way is another factor in converting to Navigator. There is a version of Navigator that works with Tru2way and when TW converts to Tru2way they will use that version of Navigator. As posted earlier, SDV and Caller ID are also factors on when Navigator is needed.

TW out here is saying just by hooking up to their phone service you will get caller ID on your TV screen, without a DVR.

I posted a theory on my local thread that POSSIBLY the conversion of SARA to Navigator could cause some kind of major corruption, like loss of all recorded programs or even cause the unit to crash completely.

This may be somewhere, but I couldn't find it on a search.

I have Comcast, so I don't have the SA8300HD remote. I received a new box from Comcast and then found that the display shows the time instead of the channel. My remote doesn't have the buttons the Guide says to use to change back to the channel. Is there some way of doing this via the buttons on the Comcast remote (for those who have Comcast) or through another means?

Thanks,

Rich N.

"I have Comcast, so I don't have the SA8300HD remote." Wow, Comcast cutting back on costs are they? It's one of the menu items. I "think" you can fiddle with the menu and navigation buttons on the box itself to get there and get it to display the channel.

Hi...I posted this in the Charter Los Angeles thread, but since this thread is specific to my box, I'm cross-posting here as well....

I live in Charter Glendale, and have a pair of SA8300HD boxes attached to two HDTVs -- a 4+ year old Toshiba tube set, and a new Sony 52W3000 LCD.

A consistent problem on both TVs (going back as far as I can remember, just too lazy to post until now) has been audio dropouts on HD broadcasts (and recordings) -- but ONLY when there's a substantial amount of BLACK on the screen.

Weird, I know...and it mainly happens during end titles, like when end-title music plays as the credits appear over a black screen. As they play, my audio cuts in-and-out. Happens on EVERY HD CHANNEL -- HBO, Showtime, broadcast nets, you name it. Happens on BOTH TVs, but only affects HD -- SD plays fine.

It's annoying as hell.

I've searched the forums for an answer...if it's there, it's well hidden.

Any thoughts? A call to Charter was totally un-helpful...they said it was either coming from the provider (right...HBO corrupts the audio during the end titles of their HD broadcasts, but leaves SD alone) or SUNSPOTS (which strangely only seems to affect end titles of HD broadcasts.)

I know it's not sunspots...so I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks....

TW out here is saying just by hooking up to their phone service you will get caller ID on your TV screen, without a DVR.
That statement may be true. I think you would need a set top box that displays Caller ID on your screen but it doesn't have to be a DVR.

This may be somewhere, but I couldn't find it on a search.

I have Comcast, so I don't have the SA8300HD remote. I received a new box from Comcast and then found that the display shows the time instead of the channel. My remote doesn't have the buttons the Guide says to use to change back to the channel. Is there some way of doing this via the buttons on the Comcast remote (for those who have Comcast) or through another means?

Thanks,

Rich N.Go into General Settings and look for the Display: Power On options. One of those should work for you. There are also Power Off options.

The rocky road to Tru2way

Posted by John P. Falcone
Crave CNET
June 12, 2008 3:57 PM PDT

Update: Subsequent to the publication of this story, Panasonic has released a more detailed statement on the status of its Tru2way TVs. Click on the following link for Panasonic's response:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9968450-1.html


CableLabs' Tru2way got a big boost last month when Sony signed on with a pledge to design and deliver TVs that incorporate the standard, bolstering an already impressive list of backers. The Web was flooded with optimistic reports of a post-cable box Valhalla where you could simply buy a Tru2way TV, screw in your coaxial cable, and have plug-and-play access to your 1,000-channel universe. Before those miracle TVs hit the market, however, they need to be certified by CableLabs--and there are rumors that the initial trials aren't going well. According to IP Democracy, the initial certification tests for Panasonic Tru2way TVs were unsuccessful--to say the least. The post cites "folks close to Tru2way" as calling the Panasonic tests a "'disaster of spectacular proportions'" that resulted in "'dozens and dozens' of bugs."

In an attempt to verify those dire--but anonymous--quotes, we contacted Panasonic and CableLabs for their responses. Panasonic gave us a quick "no comment," but CableLabs provided a [somewhat] more detailed retort:

Certification test results are not published by CableLabs. While we cannot address speculation made in the media about specific tests results, it is important to understand that it is common for devices to require multiple test runs before achieving CableLabs certification. Manufacturers generally account for such timing in their product plans. CableLabs conducts multiple test waves throughout the year in order to accommodate additional testing. Panasonic has entered an upcoming certification wave, which provides ample time for products to reach the marketplace to meet the company's rollout schedule. Other tru2way products, including products from Samsung and ADB have already been Certified by CableLabs.

The Samsung certification was actually a 2005 product that--to my knowledge--has never been commercially released. The ADB products are set-top boxes and media centers that appear to be intended for cable companies to license to consumers. To me, the ADB products seem counterintuitive to the whole idea of the Tru2way model--I thought the idea here was for Tru2way to provide a framework that would allow for the release of TVs and DVRs that consumers could buy at Best Buy or Circuit City, and hook up as easily as a standard DVD player.

So, what's it all mean? The nondenials from Panasonic and CableLabs make me think that the substance of the IP Democracy report is true: the initial wave of Tru2way TVs aren't ready for prime time. But that's to be expected from a new technology that hasn't yet been released to the public (thus the whole point of certification testing--the bugs get extinguished before the products reach the public.)

A follow-up post on the IP Democracy post that purports to be from CableLabs says that the company is "confident in the technology and are on track to introduce this software platform and services at retail later this year in select markets." While they may technically hit that milestone with products like the ADB boxes, I think the real test will be whether or not we can buy Tru2way TVs--from Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, or any other company. And at this point, I still wouldn't be surprised if we don't see those products until sometime in 2009. But I hope I'm wrong.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9966972-1.html?tag=nl.e501

Note: The web site has additional links.

About 2 days ago, my box (I am a Charter user in CT) lost the audio on channels 100+. The box has been set to output Dolby Digital for months and all was working fine.

I have the box running an optical cable into my Onkyo receiver. All channels 2-99 work fine when set to Dolby Digital. Only the "digital" channels above 99 do not, including hi-def channels.

If I set the output on the box through the Menu command to "Other" I do get sound.

Any clue what may be happening here and why the change? Shouldn't all channels always work on Dolby Digital as before?

Thanks for any help!

Chris

The rocky road to Tru2way

Posted by John P. Falcone
Crave CNET
June 12, 2008 3:57 PM PDT

Update: Subsequent to the publication of this story, Panasonic has released a more detailed statement on the status of its Tru2way TVs. Click on the following link for Panasonic's response:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9968450-1.html



http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9966972-1.html?tag=nl.e501

Note: The web site has additional links.

I don't know about everyone else, but I am quite skeptical about Tru2way. Once this is part of your TV, I suspect that if there are any problems, the cable company will blame the TV. I think the more things that sit as separate piece of equipment, the easier it is to pinpoint problems and/or fix or buy a new piece of equipment. Same with a DVR. I'd rather this NOT be part of a TV so that when it goes bad- almost certainly before the TV goes bad- you can replace just it.

Multiplicity of affected CE manufacturers is what's needed to pressure cable companies
to finally FIX their software instead of refusing to acknowledge there are any problems....

Can you imagine a CE manufacturer refusing to fix system lockups....
not to mention flaky/non-functional HDMI, Firewire, eSATA HDD, et. al.

==================================
PS: Downloading an "OCAP TEST IPG" Java App (provided by CableLabs),
and then running a pre-defined test procedure (provided by CableLabs)
against a test suite simulating a cable headend (provided by CableLabs)
is a nice first step, verifying integration of OCAP Middleware to host hardware....

But does very little to verify the ACTUAL cable headend software works
with the new piece of equipment...and "hides" OCAP IPG deficiencies...

And which version(s) of OCAP IPG is(are) used during these tests????
Navigator? TVGuide? iGuide? ad nauseum?

So when does SYSTEM TEST begin....upon delivery of new HDTVs to users????

Multiplicity of affected CE manufacturers is what's needed to pressure cable companies
to finally FIX their software instead of refusing to acknowledge there are any problems....

Can you imagine a CE manufacturer refusing to fix system lockups....
not to mention flaky/non-functional HDMI, Firewire, eSATA HDD, et. al.Not that I necessarily disagree, but I wonder how all this would be working if cableco's had settled for simplicity rather than possible future connectivity, especially since they refuse to support all that stuff anyway.

By that I mean how many problems would folks be having if the Cisco DVRs, for example, had been ordered with just Analog/Component video connectors and digital optical connectors; no HDMI, no SATA, no Firewire, etc. The vast majority of problems over the years have been SATA and HDMI related, do in large part to incompatibilities. There are now several SATA combos that work without any recent changes to the DVR. I think this tells me that most problems were with the combo kit's implementation of the SATA inteface and not the DVR. If you look at xnappo's databases, the number of successes has risen greatly while we've been using the same DVR software for over 2 years now.

It's not as mature with HDMI, but there are a significant number of units working, again with no changes to the DVR, and this tells me that others might, just might, be doing something wrong, or at least different, in their HDMI implementation.

What I'm not saying is that Cisco and others don't share some blame. Maybe equipment makers have simply designed around their flaws, but this doesn't seem very logical to me. The other thing is that I don't see an onslaught of equipment makers bad-mouthing Cisco and others. I would think that if the base unit/software was totally at fault, the press would be full of accusations form Sony, Panasonic, et al.

Just my thoughts. No one is forced to accept them. :)

Capa2000 - this sort of thing happens to me once or twice a year, last time was right in the middle of a program. A reboot has always fixed it for me.

PLEASE,

We are here to help. And we need your cooperation to be at our best.

Read the first post-Most answers are there! At least the simple ones. We believe our first post is unique among all threads in the amount of information it contains and in it’s easy readability!

Read the last two pages-The most recently discussed problems are there. They are also the most recently developing problems. Do not read every page, that will only drive you crazy. Older pages likely contain outdated information.

An efficient search will help. Try to use just one highly significant word. For tips on searching or any general questions, please PM me or the ID of a frequent poster, or a high post count, or any member. We may use different terminology!

If you can’t find your answer or are not sure you understand it, ask in any way you are comfortable. Try to be brief-Think of the next new person reading this thread.

Tell us where you (or the person with the problem) are-City and State.

Tell us what equipment you are using-HDMI? -All makes and models, and include your video provider (i.e. Comcast, DirecTV)

Be patient-It may take a few days before the best qualified member to answer your question “picks up.”

THANK YOU!

Bob:)
Comcast-SA8300HD & SA4250HDC-SARA 1.89.22.2/1.61.5.108-PhilipsBRBurner (CyberLink Software

I have a feeling that the above reply was meant for me and my post from the previous page which I did think was specific enough to the exact problem I incurred.

I did review the first post in this thread and saw no mention of why audio cuts out on the Dolby Digital setting when using Optical Out cable to an external amp. I did see an entry related to HDMI, but not for optical audio to an external device (not tv).

If I missed it, I apologize. I will try the boot process to see if that works, but would be nice to know a root cause.

Chris

I have a feeling that the above reply was meant for me and my post from the previous page which I did think was specific enough to the exact problem I incurred.Bob posts that info every few days to let new folks know that there is a First Post here that is maintained current. Usually that post is not directed at any specific individual or post, just a reminder.

I did review the first post in this thread and saw no mention of why audio cuts out on the Dolby Digital setting when using Optical Out cable to an external amp. I did see an entry related to HDMI, but not for optical audio to an external device (not tv).That's because it doesn't happen often enough to pinpoint the cause or a specific solution, and it doesn't happen to too many users. If the reboot doesn't work, let us know. FWIW, I usually don't bother with a regular reboot, I go with the hard reboot. My thought is that if a reboot doesn't work, you still need to try a hard reboot anyway.

Bob posts that info every few days to let new folks know that there is a First Post here that is maintained current. Usually that post is not directed at any specific individual or post, just a reminder.Yeh, I suspect that he has implemented some sort of "auto-post" function.:rolleyes:

HELP PLEASE!! I was playing with my SA 8300 HD. I think I switch the mode to dvi/hdmi. Now I can't access anything. I'm unplugged the box, and rebooted. Before it was on 1080i, now it's showing 480i. What should I do to access my menu again?

HELP PLEASE!! I was playing with my SA 8300 HD. I think I switch the mode to dvi/hdmi. Now I can't access anything. I'm unplugged the box, and rebooted. Before it was on 1080i, now it's showing 480i. What should I do to access my menu again?
Look at the first post, under "Setup". You can adjust the SA's output even if you cannot see anything on screen.

Having a weird issue with my 8300HD. When pausing, FF, or RW and then playing live TV on analog SD channels, the picture is extremely pixelated. It doesn't happen on HD channels, or digital SD channels, or on any recorded material, only on the analog SD channels. Pressing the "live" button on the remote returns the picture to normal. Has anyone else experienced this? Maybe I just never noticed it before? I have a Sony KDF-60XS955 hooked up via component cables and SARA version 1.89.20.1. Thanks!

Having a weird issue with my 8300HD. When pausing, FF, or RW and then playing live TV on analog SD channels, the picture is extremely pixelated. It doesn't happen on HD channels, or digital SD channels, or on any recorded material, only on the analog SD channels. Pressing the "live" button on the remote returns the picture to normal. Has anyone else experienced this? Maybe I just never noticed it before? I have a Sony KDF-60XS955 hooked up via component cables and SARA version 1.89.20.1. Thanks!Analog SD channels are getting to be somewhat rare (most systems now simulcast). The issue here is that the 8300 internal circuitry needs to convert A to D and then compress it. The quality of these internal circuits are just not up to what cable uses, so poorer PQ on recorded material will result (it will also take about 2x the space on the HD due to lower efficiency compression). You might just be seeing this poorer quality on a 60" screen, or perhaps something is actually wrong with your 8300.

Analog SD channels are getting to be somewhat rare (most systems now simulcast). The issue here is that the 8300 internal circuitry needs to convert A to D and then compress it. The quality of these internal circuits are just not up to what cable uses, so poorer PQ on recorded material will result (it will also take about 2x the space on the HD due to lower efficiency compression). You might just be seeing this poorer quality on a 60" screen, or perhaps something is actually wrong with your 8300.

It doesn't happen on recorded material (SD or HD), or any of the digital or HD channels. It only happens on Channels 1-99. I believe those channels are still analog with Charter. Maybe there is something wrong with the box. It's really bad pixelization on these channels when using Pause, RW, FF and then trying to watch - I've had the TV (and the box) for 3.5 years and this just started happening this week. I'll try a reboot and see if it helps.

Edit: Hard reboot appears to have solved it. We'll see if it re-occurs. Thanks.

It doesn't happen on recorded material (SD or HD), or any of the digital or HD channels. It only happens on Channels 1-99. I believe those channels are still analog with Charter. Maybe there is something wrong with the box. It's really bad pixelization on these channels when using Pause, RW, FF and then trying to watch - I've had the TV (and the box) for 3.5 years and this just started happening this week. I'll try a reboot and see if it helps.

Edit: Hard reboot appears to have solved it. We'll see if it re-occurs. Thanks.I hope that did it. BTW: Channels 1-99 may actually be digital. When the cable system uses a digital simulcast they download a tuning table into the cable boxes that tells the box what QAM channel to tune when, say channel 21, is selected. You may think you have channel 21, but you are actually watching QAM channel 103-4. One way to see what is happening is to look at the diagnostic menus.

Glad to hear the Hard reboot takes care of it (it often fixes various ills).

Who's Afraid of tru2way?

Jeff Baumgartner, Site Editor, Cable Digital News
JANUARY 11, 2008

LAS VEGAS -- CES -- A commitment to tru2way technology and a renewed willingness to open up a retail channel for cable-ready, interactive digital TVs and set-tops served as the cable cornerstones of this week's Consumer Electronics Show (CES). (See Slideshow: On the Hunt for 'tru2way' at CES and CES: Roberts Declares Open Season.)

But it also opened the door to plenty of questions about how that could affect U.S. cable's top two cable box suppliers: Motorola Inc. (NYSE: MOT - message board) and Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq: CSCO - message board)/Scientific Atlanta .

A new breed of tru2way TVs equipped with CableCARD slots, such as those demonstrated here by Panasonic and LG Electronics Inc. (London: LGLD - message board; Korea: 6657.KS) , will allow consumers to use the cable operator's interactive guide and two-way services such as video-on-demand (VOD) without a separate set-top box.

Although such devices could steal away some share from the top dogs, the existing digital cable equipment duopoly will remain positioned to reap a portion of those revenues. That's because those new TVs and set-tops will still require CableCARDs based on Motorola's MediaCipher conditional access system or Scientific Atlanta's PowerKEY platform. And at last check, they aren't giving them away like broth at a soup kitchen.

Cisco and Motorola are incorporating tru2way in their boxes, so there's not much stopping them from developing a retail set-top strategy, either.

That said, neither appears overly concerned about the possibility of seeing a legion of CE companies step in with tru2way-powered equipment and sap their market dominance.

Although the percentage of share may go down, "we can still grow the business because the pie is getting so much bigger," says Dan Maloney, a Motorola EVP, and president of its Home & Networks Mobility division. On that, he points out an estimate that there are about 1.3 set-tops per cable home today, but more than three TVs.

"We firmly believe there will always be a place for set-tops in the home. Not every TV will have a set-top on it; not every TV today has a set-top on it," notes Dave Clark, director of product strategy and management at Cisco/SA.

"We're going to be aggressive and try to expand our market share when it comes to set-tops and set-top box devices," he says. "We'll come in through service providers and through retail"

The how and when part for retail is still sketchy, though.

Clark points to a "heavy brand" like Linksys as one possibility. "But you're also going to see the Cisco brand show up more and more in the home," he notes.

"Probably not real soon" is how Clark responded when asked when one might expect to find a Cisco-branded set-top on a retail shelf. "When that market needs to happen, we'll be there, and be there in force," he says.

And Motorola?

"We will play at retail, but the value proposition has to work" for retailers, suppliers, and the cable MSO, Maloney says.

And he brings up an important question: "Why do I want to own a set-top? It makes no sense to put our standard host set-top box at retail, and it makes no sense to the retailer."

Consumers won't want to buy a device if it doesn't add any value to what they can already get direct from the cable operator, so consumer electronics firms will truly have to innovate to stand much of a chance.

Although tru2way was the message of this year's show, cable's slow embrace of retail also means it will take time for set-top makers to enter the market in a meaningful way.

"It'll be a couple of years before retail set-tops get traction here in the U.S.," Maloney predicts.

But that doesn't mean others aren't giving it a try now. TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO - message board) has added the CableCARD in one-way devices that, with the help of the so-called "tuning resolver," will enable them to become two-way. TiVo has also won some concessions so its guide and user interface will be restored when it comes out with a product based on tru2way tech, which used to be called the OpenCable Platform. (See NCTA Sees Solution to Switching Snag and TiVo à la Mode .)

Meanwhile, Digeo Inc. , a company backed by Paul Allen, will soon start to sell a $1,000 one-way, CableCARD-based, multi-room HD-DVR equipped with a high-res interface and a bounty of interactive features and applications fed via a high-speed IP port. [Ed note: We'll have much more on Digeo's new retail and direct-to-MSO strategy soon.]

"We think [the retail package from Digeo] is far and above what Verizon and AT&T are offering. Retail can be a real asset to the cable operator," says Digeo CEO Mike Fidler, a former Sony Corp. (NYSE: SNE - message board) exec.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=143004&site=cdn

A little more than two weeks ago, TWC had me swap an otherwise flawless 8300HD for the 8300HDC because it seemed like the box may be the cause of a digital audio problem we were having. After the problem persisted I swapped for a second HDC, changed the coax audio out cable and switched inputs on the receiver. That suggested the problem was probably with my receiver and not the 8300HD.

But by then it was too late: along the way, TWC said the input level to our box was too low. First a tech came and made few tweaks in the house, which boosted the levels slightly, but not to within their specs. So they sent a maintenance guy to adjust the neighborhood amplifier outside the house. That placed the input right on the money -- but within hours the 8300HDC started pixelating and freezing on digital and HD channels, and our Digital Phone service sounded like the conversations were under water. They've now sent four techs, changed modems, changed splitters, gone over every piece of cable in the house, etc., etc., without any improvement.

I've seen reports about the 8300HDC being unable to handle "normal" or "strong" input levels, and problems like ours being resolved by actually dialing down the input. Is that reliable info, or strictly anecdotal? Is it something we should suggest to TWC? (As if they'd listen.)

A little more than two weeks ago, TWC had me swap an otherwise flawless 8300HD for the 8300HDC because it seemed like the box may be the cause of a digital audio problem we were having. After the problem persisted I swapped for a second HDC, changed the coax audio out cable and switched inputs on the receiver. That suggested the problem was probably with my receiver and not the 8300HD.

But by then it was too late: along the way, TWC said the input level to our box was too low. First a tech came and made few tweaks in the house, which boosted the levels slightly, but not to within their specs. So they sent a maintenance guy to adjust the neighborhood amplifier outside the house. That placed the input right on the money -- but within hours the 8300HDC started pixelating and freezing on digital and HD channels, and our Digital Phone service sounded like the conversations were under water. They've now sent four techs, changed modems, changed splitters, gone over every piece of cable in the house, etc., etc., without any improvement.

I've seen reports about the 8300HDC being unable to handle "normal" or "strong" input levels, and problems like ours being resolved by actually dialing down the input. Is that reliable info, or strictly anecdotal? Is it something we should suggest to TWC? (As if they'd listen.)The "old" SA8300HD was susceptable to high signal levels - and I see no reason why the "C"model would be any different. Your problems with digital phone should not be related to the particular 8300 - BUT, I suspect that raising the overall signal levels could be a problem. They might need to put an attenuator on the phone modem line in.

Your experience has message: DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR SA8300HD! If they propose replacing the HD with an HDC, rent the 2nd box until you are satisfied that the new one solves the problem!

Thanks, Dave -- our fifth TWC tech appointment is scheduled for Monday and we intend to ask them to do that.

The "old" SA8300HD was susceptable to high signal levels - and I see no reason why the "C"model would be any different. Your problems with digital phone should not be related to the particular 8300 - BUT, I suspect that raising the overall signal levels could be a problem. They might need to put an attenuator on the phone modem line in.

Your experience has message: DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR SA8300HD! If they propose replacing the HD with an HDC, rent the 2nd box until you are satisfied that the new one solves the problem!

Reminds me when I had a very minor problem with my 8300 and I didn't know anything about rebooting. I traded it in for ones (yes, plural) that hardly worked at all and finally ended up with a Moxie Box which was just horrible. Finally, after begging and leaving my name and number at the office, Charter called and gave me an 8300. So the lesson is, try and get the one you have working before getting another one, the grass is not usually greener.

Cisco Unveils New Set-Top Models

New Features Allow Consumers to Blend Digital Video and Social Networking Experiences with One Device

LAS VEGAS, Nevada - International CES - Jan. 7, 2008 - Cisco® today announced the latest additions to its 8500HDC Digital Video Recorder (DVR) Set-Top Series, demonstrating that set-tops have come a long way from their predecessors. The new 8500HDC DVR models offer a broader set of features and technical innovations enabling the delivery of next-generation visual networking experiences. The emerging consumer experience category of visual networking blends streaming digital video technology with social networking, which enables more choice, easier navigation of content from the provider network and the Internet, higher-quality viewing and faster, more personalized interaction.

U.S. consumers have become more connected during the past ten years - due in large part to their use of more than 50 million set-tops, 100 million wireless local-area network (WLAN) routers and 1 billion mobile phones to date. With its latest consumer products, including set-tops, Cisco helps create connections between people and what they treasure most, offering consumers innovative, new ways to communicate with friends and family, discover entertainment content and access information in different locations via multiple devices.

The three new models in the 8500HDC DVR series1 offer a range of capabilities such as sharing Internet services and content across multiple device platforms and the portability of personal photos and video content. The 8500HDC DVR Series provides the ability to support key next-generation features such as:

* Whole Home Content: Sharing DVR or user-generated Internet-based video content across multiple set-tops or personal computers (PCs) in the home;

* Richer Media Experience and Navigation: Advanced programming guides, enhanced video navigation options, and integrated search functions across multiple devices;

* Internet and Premium Content Services: Extended high-definition sports, international content, user-generated video, and Internet content now accessible on the television (TV) or mobile phone;

* Device Docking and Storage Photos and personal video from the PC available for viewing on TV, music downloaded from the PC to home entertainment and mobile devices;

* Interactive and Community/Social Applications: Content and experience sharing, as well as communicating with other people across devices on the same network; and

* Enhanced Video Communications: Instant messaging across multiple devices, home monitoring services and caller identification (ID) services across the TV or PC.

Additional Features Enhance Visual Networking Experience:

The latest additions to the 8500HDC series offer 800 mips (million instructions per second) of application processing power; dual 400MHz processors for MPEG-4 advanced video compression decoding; 1 GHz tuning; and optional OpenCableTM features. Additionally, the 8552HDC DVR model set-top is one of the first in the industry to offer Multimedia over Coax Alliance (MoCA) whole-home connection. MoCA adds Ethernet-over-coax support, enabling the transport of digital video and entertainment through existing coaxial cable in the home to other consumer home network devices.

"Many years of research and hard work have resulted in our developing new capabilities to meet the needs of our service provider customers and consumers," said Bob McIntyre, chief technical officer, Cisco Service Provider Group. "The 8500HDC DVR is vastly improved and has new features that surpass the PC you bought two years ago. The new Cisco set-top boxes were built to enable innovation and will soon be the must-have device for every home entertainment system."

The 8500HDC DVR Set-top Series models will be on display at the International Consumer Electronics Show, Jan. 7-10, 2008 at the Las Vegas Convention Center, North Hall Room N246.

These new 8500HDC series models are now commercially available for our service provider customers.

1. Model numbers include: The 8550HDC with analog & digital tuning, the 8540HDC with Digital-Only tuning, and the 8552HDC with optional MoCA support.

About Cisco Systems

Cisco, (NASDAQ: CSCO), is the worldwide leader in networking that transforms how people connect, communicate and collaborate. Information about Cisco can be found at http://www.cisco.com. For ongoing news, please go to http://newsroom.cisco.com.

# # #

Cisco, Cisco Systems, the Cisco logo, the Cisco Systems logo and Scientific Atlanta are registered trademarks or trademarks of Cisco Systems, Inc. and/or its affiliates in the United States and certain other countries. All other trademarks mentioned in this document are the property of their respective owners.

http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2008/prod_010708c.html?print=true

I have a 32' Aquos 720p

On HD the programming is awesome, but on Standard its much much worse than my other TV at home which isnt HD

why is that? is this just by me?

I cant stretch because than its out of wack and zooming loses picture

what can i do to get full picture Standard without the awful quality?

I have a 32' Aquos 720p

On HD the programming is awesome, but on Standard its much much worse than my other TV at home which isnt HD

why is that? is this just by me?

What's happening is that you are seeing noise in the standard definition TV signal and just how low-resolution (and more electronically compressed) standard definition signals are compared to HD signals. These issues are simply not visible on 480i (standard definition) television screens. All HD sets make these flaws much more evident than SD sets, not only because they have higher resolution but because their larger screen size magnifies the defects.

See the following thread for one of the many complaint-filled discussions of this issue that you can find on the internet:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-hd-discussions/123571-new-directv-hd-poor-sd-picture.html

And the following link gets a little more technical and has a screen photo that demonstrates the problems that you're seeing on SD signals: http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=5

The thread suggests using an S-video connection (rather than HDMI or component) to watch SD channels. However, for me, this made SD pictures look even worse than they do over my usual HDMI connection to the SA8300HD.

I have a 32' Aquos 720p

On HD the programming is awesome, but on Standard its much much worse than my other TV at home which isnt HD

why is that? is this just by me?

I cant stretch because than its out of wack and zooming loses picture

what can i do to get full picture Standard without the awful quality?
It's true that SD may never look as good as on your old CRT, but the cable box probably does a worse job of upconverting 480i than most TVs. Certainly with my 8300HD it's quite a lot better if it outputs SD as 480i and the TV does its own upconversion (compared to having the box convert and output in HD).

I have a Samsung 32" LCD and send SD at 480p over HDMI. I have no trouble at all with the quality of SD programs. It looks very good on every channel. HD obviously is better, but not by a huge margin. It may depend on your cable company or quality of your signal.

What's happening is that you are seeing noise in the standard definition TV signal and just how low-resolution (and more electronically compressed) standard definition signals are compared to HD signals. These issues are simply not visible on 480i (standard definition) television screens. All HD sets make these flaws much more evident than SD sets, not only because they have higher resolution but because their larger screen size magnifies the defects.

See the following thread for one of the many complaint-filled discussions of this issue that you can find on the internet:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-hd-discussions/123571-new-directv-hd-poor-sd-picture.html

And the following link gets a little more technical and has a screen photo that demonstrates the problems that you're seeing on SD signals: http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=5

The thread suggests using an S-video connection (rather than HDMI or component) to watch SD channels. However, for me, this made SD pictures look even worse than they do over my usual HDMI connection to the SA8300HD.

Thx a lot buddy!

quality post

BTW is it possible to make the SD output at 480i and the HD at the highest?

BTW is it possible to make the SD output at 480i and the HD at the highest?

Yes, you can do that using the Advanced Setup screens for the cable box. You can have the cable box send the signal to your TV without upscaling any of the resolutions. However, this doesn't make SD pictures look any better than they do now--they are still getting enlarged for by your TV to fit its bigger screen (even if you aren't stretching the picture--"sports bar mode"), which makes the noise and compression quite evident. In addition, it takes much longer for your TV to display the next channel while you're surfing.

Yes, you can do that using the Advanced Setup screens for the cable box. You can have the cable box send the signal to your TV without upscaling any of the resolutions. However, this doesn't make SD pictures look any better than they do now--they are still getting enlarged for by your TV to fit its bigger screen (even if you aren't stretching the picture--"sports bar mode"), which makes the noise and compression quite evident. In addition, it takes much longer for your TV to display the next channel while you're surfing.
On most (but maybe not all) TVs I think you'll find SD looks better when sent to the TV as 480i. The 8300HD does a terrible job of deinterlacing and upscaling SD.

But as you say the downside of having the box in passthrough mode is longer channel switching time, because an HDMI handshake needs to take place when changing resolutions.

On most (but maybe not all) TVs I think you'll find SD looks better when sent to the TV as 480i. The 8300HD does a terrible job of deinterlacing and upscaling SD.

But as you say the downside of having the box in passthrough mode is longer channel switching time, because an HDMI handshake needs to take place when changing resolutions.But since many cableco's group their HD channels together (here they are all 700's) the resolution only changes once or twice while surfing unless you go back and forth from SD to HD, etc. If you enable both 720p and 1080i, you will then add that resloution change to the mix, but most folks don't see any appreciable difference between 720p/1080i, so they only enable one or the other. The key is to enable 720p, then enable 1080i, and see if there is a difference, especially for live content. If there isn't, just enable one or the other, not both. Add 480i (or 480p depending on TV) to see if SD channels look any better. As has been said though SD channels will show their flaws on a larger screen TV regardless of resolution selected. Some cableco's do a better job than others at digitally simulcasting and some still just pass analog.

On the Advanced Setup screens for the 8300HD, there are several resolutions choices described as "widescreen": 480i Widescreen, 480p Widescreen...

Do cable companies actually transmit any signals at these resolutions?

On the Advanced Setup screens for the 8300HD, there are several resolutions choices described as "widescreen": 480i Widescreen, 480p Widescreen...

Do cable companies actually transmit any signals at these resolutions?If you read the First Post ;) it explains the difference between Standard and Widescreen. It has nothing to do with how the signal is broadcast and has everything to do with which device you want to do any stretching, the 8300 or the TV. The Widescreen option harkens back to the day when many HDTVs didn't have "intelligent" stretch modes.

Removing Bars On SD Channels. Factory default displays side bars on non-HD channels. Toggling zoom modes eliminates them, but this often cuts much of image. Adding resolutions allows TV to stretch images and avoid uneven phosphor wear (burn-in). Use Setup Wizard to enable resolutions other than 1080i. Also set picture format to Pass-Through (press Settings twice, scroll to Set:Picture Format, select Pass-Through).
With box OFF and TV ON, press Info /Guide (on box) together, then follow on-screen directions to enable 480i and others. Cable passes 720p (ABC, FOX, ESPN), 1080i (all other HD channels), 480i (SD channels), and 480p (music channels). If you do not see difference between 1080i/720p, enable only one to minimize reformatting while channel surfing. Note: The 480i/p Widescreen options allow 8300 to stretch image. Do not enable if you use TV to stretch image.

If you read the First Post ;) it explains the difference between Standard and Widescreen. It has nothing to do with how the signal is broadcast and has everything to do with which device you want to do any stretching, the 8300 or the TV. The Widescreen option harkens back to the day when many HDTVs didn't have "intelligent" stretch modes.

Thanks for refreshing my memory;), it's been a while since I read that. OK, so how come if I have deselected the 480 Widescreen modes on Advanced Setup, I can still choose Zoom 1 or Zoom 2 using the aspect ratio button on the remote, and I can still choose the Zooms plus the Stretch mode using the Advanced Settings software screens on the remote?

Thanks for refreshing my memory;), it's been a while since I read that. OK, so how come if I have deselected the 480 Widescreen modes on Advanced Setup, I can still choose Zoom 1 or Zoom 2 using the aspect ratio button on the remote, and I can still choose the Zooms plus the Stretch mode using the Advanced Settings software screens on the remote?Deselecting the Widescreen modes simply keeps channels from being automatically stretched, it doesn't keep you from being able to manually zoom them. It's been a long time since I played around with this stuff, so I don't remember what happens if you select both the Standard and Widescreen modes, but I assume one supercedes the other. AFAIK, Zoom1 and Zoom2 apply to both SD and HD channels, and Stretch applies to HD channels, regardless of which formats are enabled. I believe the WS modes are there because many early HDTVs could not stretch HD channels even though SD was being broadcast and owners were worried about "burn-in".

Thx a lot buddy!

quality post

BTW is it possible to make the SD output at 480i and the HD at the highest?

Plus, the Aquos is an LCD, and does not scale SD up as well as a plasma.

Plus, the Aquos is an LCD, and does not scale SD up as well as a plasma.That is a generalization that has no basis in fact. I've seen many LCDs that do a fine job of scaling SD and some plasmas that don't. It has everything to do with the scaling circuitry and little to do with the display technology (plasma or LCD).

I agree with Dave's comment I have a Samsung 32" 1366x768 LCD, which upconverts SD very well. I also have a Pioneer 50" plasma, which is no better. Because it's larger than the Samsung, artifacts are more obvious.

OK - I had heard that, and had seen many LCD TVs that looked so bad on SD content I wasn't going to go big screen until the systems were better. I finally did spring for a Samsung 50" Plasma that looks really good on SD content. One of the LCDs I saw that almost turned me off was a Samsung.

Has anyone yet known of a SARA SA8200 that has been converted to Navigator? Last time I checked the answer was no.

In my area I got one guy who says he knows of a SARA to Navigator conversion but I'm not buying it until someone here confirms.

I have an SA 8300HDC. I am using an HDMI to HDMI connection. I have noticed that the LED display on the DVR no longer lights up the HDTV indicator. Is this normal? Thanks.

I have an SA 8300HDC. I am using an HDMI to HDMI connection. I have noticed that the LED display on the DVR no longer lights up the HDTV indicator. Is this normal? Thanks.I don't believe that the HDC has a "HDTV indicator" - it has indicators for scan rate (480i, 720p, 1080i) for what is being output. If that ("720p"/"1080i") is what you are talking about I would suggest re-doing the Set-Up followed by a hard reboot. See the first post for more information.

Has anyone yet known of a SARA SA8200 that has been converted to Navigator? Last time I checked the answer was no.

In my area I got one guy who says he knows of a SARA to Navigator conversion but I'm not buying it until someone here confirms.

I believe there was a very small area where a SARA division of one of the small players (Brighthouse or something?) was bought by a larger TWC division running Passport where both were changed over to Navigator.

This is the only case I know of.

xnappo

I believe there was a very small area where a SARA division of one of the small players (Brighthouse or something?) was bought by a larger TWC division running Passport where both were changed over to Navigator.

This is the only case I know of.

xnappo


Thanks, I'd like some more confirmation. I think there is a problem of some sort in doing that particular conversion, I don't know why but it seems very odd that all passport boxes in my area got converted but I really don't know of anyone who can confirm a SARA to Navigator conversion. I'd like to have someone who has had it happen to them confirm. Last time I checked the major players in this thread, DoubleDazz, davehamilton, and vegggas said they hadn't heard of any.

Thanks, I'd like some more confirmation. I think there is a problem of some sort in doing that particular conversion, I don't know why but it seems very odd that all passport boxes in my area got converted but I really don't know of anyone who can confirm a SARA to Navigator conversion. I'd like to have someone who has had it happen to them confirm. Last time I checked the major players in this thread, DoubleDazz, davehamilton, and vegggas said they hadn't heard of any.

Just a thought- you might post your question in the closest AVS Forum for your local area.......

Thanks, I'd like some more confirmation. I think there is a problem of some sort in doing that particular conversion, I don't know why but it seems very odd that all passport boxes in my area got converted but I really don't know of anyone who can confirm a SARA to Navigator conversion. I'd like to have someone who has had it happen to them confirm. Last time I checked the major players in this thread, DoubleDazz, davehamilton, and vegggas said they hadn't heard of any.It's always been stated that Passport boxes would be converted first and SARA boxes would follow at some later unspecifed date. From what I gathered Passport is not compatible with TWC's plans for the near term while SARA is. That allows them to concentrate on moving Passport boxes to Navigator and then complete the process with SARA boxes later. I assume there is some issue with the cost of Passport too and perhaps even that Aptiv was bought by Gemstar/TVGuide last year. Also, there seems to be some compatibilty between Navigator and SARA at some (OS?) level, so that probably has something to do with the timetable too.

I think there was in issue of TWC's version of passport that they were not SDV compatible and they had to either switch to SARA at increased and lengthy licensing fees for new equipment, or build thier own interface, which is how Navigator came about. Recent acquisitions would fall into the push Navigator category instead of having to purchase new and lengthy contracts with SARA development for software.
In a recent article, Glen Britt of TWC said they have over a million Ocap (TWC's Navigator is based on OCAP before tru2way development) boxes in use in residential homes and that they are ramping up for more devices and updated software to newer platforms as they progress. The older STB's like the 8300HD are mostly ocap (Navigator) compatible, but lack the increased memory of the HDC boxes that can run a heavier version of features.

vegggas

I don't believe that the HDC has a "HDTV indicator" - it has indicators for scan rate (480i, 720p, 1080i) for what is being output. If that ("720p"/"1080i") is what you are talking about I would suggest re-doing the Set-Up followed by a hard reboot. See the first post for more information.

Thanks for your reply, Howevere, the Users Guide says that there is an HDTV indicator LED and in fact on one version of the box I actually saw it. But when I upgraded to the 8300 with the newer HDMI support I no longer see it. I only see the diefferent scan rates.

Thanks for your reply, Howevere, the Users Guide says that there is an HDTV indicator LED and in fact on one version of the box I actually saw it. But when I upgraded to the 8300 with the newer HDMI support I no longer see it. I only see the diefferent scan rates.FWIW, close up you should be able to see the HDTV indicator even if it's not lit, it's just to the left of the Record LED. I don't have an HDC model or use HDMI and my HDTV LED is lit when tuned to HD channels, not that I actually pay any attention to it.

The User's Guide is somewhat generic for all 8300 models (at least those useing SARA) and may not be totally accurate for specific models. Sometimes they forget to include notes for differences.

I might also help if you added your location to your profile so we can rule out location/cableco specific problems, etc.

FWIW, close up you should be able to see the HDTV indicator even if it's not lit, it's just to the left of the Record LED. I don't have an HDC model or use HDMI and my HDTV LED is lit when tuned to HD channels, not that I actually pay any attention to it.Gee, you learn all the time! I've never seen the HDTV indicator light on mine, even when I was using component (I've been using HDMI for 8 months now). I checked the "Connecting the SA8300HDC" manual and it shows the same indicators as the SA8300HD (which does not surprise me - because there was no need to change the display for the CC version). Whether it lights or not apparently depends on the software (as as some SARA users have seen it, the local options of the software).

Also, upon re-reading the SA documentation, I wonder if the Easy Set-Up option has a bearing on this?

Is there anyway to make the unit more responsive? It just seems so laggy when opening/navigating/closing the guide or recorded list, even when there's not much on there.

Is there anyway to make the unit more responsive? It just seems so laggy when opening/navigating/closing the guide or recorded list, even when there's not much on there.
Location? Cableco? Software?

My Guide and List come right up when I press the buttons. Navigation is not lightening fast, but it's as fast as it's ever been.

Is there anyway to make the unit more responsive? It just seems so laggy when opening/navigating/closing the guide or recorded list, even when there's not much on there.

Same with any other electronic device that gets slow - reboot.
Read first post to determine reboot procedure.

vegggas

The light for "HDTV" lights up whenever a Hi-Def source is tuned, and is correctly outputting that HD signal. I'm not in a position to verify right now, but if the output is other than 720 or 1080, the indicator does not light up.
Either way, the behaviour and light is the same between the HD and HDC STB's.

vegggas

The light for "HDTV" lights up whenever a Hi-Def source is tuned, and is correctly outputting that HD signal. I'm not in a position to verify right now, but if the output is other than 720 or 1080, the indicator does not light up.
Either way, the behaviour and light is the same between the HD and HDC STB's.

vegggasIt's just odd that on some SARA systems the HD indicator is used (and not the 720p/1080i indicators) and yet on others the 720p/1080i is used (and not the HD indicator).

It's just odd that on some SARA systems the HD indicator is used (and not the 720p/1080i indicators) and yet on others the 720p/1080i is used (and not the HD indicator).FWIW, both sets of indicators work for me.

It's just odd that on some SARA systems the HD indicator is used (and not the 720p/1080i indicators) and yet on others the 720p/1080i is used (and not the HD indicator).

FWIW, both sets of indicators work for me.

Me too! It works on all series of DVR's (8000HD, 8300/8240HD & HDC models)
Daz, could you check to see if you get the same pattern:
Examples using fixed component output at 1080:
ESPNHD shows 720 and HDTV lit up
CBSHD Shows 1080 and HDTV lit up
Music shows 480 with no indicator

vegggas

Me too! It works on all series of DVR's (8000HD, 8300/8240HD & HDC models)
Daz, could you check to see if you get the same pattern:
Examples using fixed component output at 1080:
ESPNHD shows 720 and HDTV lit up
CBSHD Shows 1080 and HDTV lit up
Music shows 480 with no indicator

vegggasI had to enable 720p to make sure, but yes, that's what I get.

I have the 8300 connected to the samsung 52a650 LCD via HDMI. I am selected all resolutions expcpet "wide" in the setup and the selected HDMI in the settings menu.

The 8300 always sends 1080i even on 720P channels like ESPN. Is this consistent in your understanding?

I would expect the box to pass 720P so the TV could upscale. Is this only available via component connection?

Thanks in advance.

Me too! It works on all series of DVR's (8000HD, 8300/8240HD & HDC models)
Daz, could you check to see if you get the same pattern:
Examples using fixed component output at 1080:
ESPNHD shows 720 and HDTV lit up
CBSHD Shows 1080 and HDTV lit up
Music shows 480 with no indicator

vegggas
Verified on an HDC STB.
The resolution is whatever the output is, so if set to passthrough and all resolutions are enabled, it shows exactly as above.
By disabling 720, the HD channels stay at 1080i while the HDTV is lit, music is 480p and sd is 480i.
Using Fixed output of 1080i, it always stays at 1080i but the HDTV indicator turns on during HD channels and turns off for SD channels.

vegggas

I have the 8300 connected to the samsung 52a650 LCD via HDMI. I am selected all resolutions expcpet "wide" in the setup and the selected HDMI in the settings menu.

The 8300 always sends 1080i even on 720P channels like ESPN. Is this consistent in your understanding?

I would expect the box to pass 720P so the TV could upscale. Is this only available via component connection?

Thanks in advance.

The TV is "requesting" 1080i as it's video source from the STB.
You may try your other settings menu item Set:Picture Format and see if that is set to fixed or passthrough.
vegggas

The TV is "requesting" 1080i as it's video source from the STB.
You may try your other settings menu item Set:Picture Format and see if that is set to fixed or passthrough.
vegggasIf he's using HDMI, he should have Auto-HDMI instead of Pass-Through, shouldn't he?

Does anyone know the code for a Pioneer receiver (1018)? I want to be able to turn on/off my receiver using the SA 8300 remote control.

Verified on an HDC STB.
The resolution is whatever the output is, so if set to passthrough and all resolutions are enabled, it shows exactly as above.
By disabling 720, the HD channels stay at 1080i while the HDTV is lit, music is 480p and sd is 480i.
Using Fixed output of 1080i, it always stays at 1080i but the HDTV indicator turns on during HD channels and turns off for SD channels.

vegggas

Thanks for all your help. The STB shows 1080i as the resolution on the HD channel (e.g., 704 in NYC with TWC) but the HDTV indicator never comes on. I do not know what OS the box is using, but on the stratup screen it says its using JAVA

Thanks for all your help. The STB shows 1080i as the resolution on the HD channel (e.g., 704 in NYC with TWC) but the HDTV indicator never comes on. I do not know what OS the box is using, but on the stratup screen it says its using JAVAToward the begining of the First Post in this thread there are instructions on how to determine what software (SARA, Passport, Navigator) you are using based on the A-B-C button labels.

Thanks for all your help. The STB shows 1080i as the resolution on the HD channel (e.g., 704 in NYC with TWC) but the HDTV indicator never comes on. I do not know what OS the box is using, but on the stratup screen it says its using JAVA

Go to a known HD channel, such as ESPNHD or MOJO to verify that you are tuning an HD channel.
If you see java, you are probably using TWC's own codeset called Navigator. Much like any other electronic device, the hardware is fully dependent on the software being used and TWC uses their own homebrew solution. There is a whole other thread for Navigator users.

vegggas

If he's using HDMI, he should have Auto-HDMI instead of Pass-Through, shouldn't he?

Yes, I have the Auto-HDMI option only and it "automatically" selects 1080i even on 720P stations. Which is the root of question, is this standard behavior?

I would prefer my TV do the deinterlace and upscale to 1080i rather than the 8300, but I am not sure how/if it will work with 8300 settings....

Yes, I have the Auto-HDMI option only and it "automatically" selects 1080i even on 720P stations. Which is the root of question, is this standard behavior?

I would prefer my TV do the deinterlace and upscale to 1080i rather than the 8300, but I am not sure how/if it will work with 8300 settings....
I don't know enough about HDMI or your TV, but if as vegggas suggests, the TV is "requesting" 1080i, then I assume that is what is happening and I don't know of anything you can change in the 8300. This assumes that you enabled both 720p and 1080i in the initial setup process.

I don't know enough about HDMI or your TV, but if as vegggas suggests, the TV is "requesting" 1080i, then I assume that is what is happening and I don't know of anything you can change in the 8300. This assumes that you enabled both 720p and 1080i in the initial setup process.

I do have 720P and 1080i enabled....

You could try connecting with component and see what happens, then check that your settings using component are set to passthrough and not fixed.
I feel that your TV is the deciding factor though and that it is requesting only 1080i resolution.

vegggas

PLEASE,

We are here to help. And we need your cooperation to be at our best.

Read the first post-Most answers are there! At least the simple ones. We believe our first post is unique among all threads in the amount of information it contains and in it’s easy readability!

Read the last two pages-The most recently discussed problems are there. They are also the most recently developing problems. Do not read every page, that will only drive you crazy. Older pages likely contain outdated information.

An efficient search will help. Try to use just one highly significant word. For tips on searching or any general questions, please PM me or the ID of a frequent poster, or a high post count, or any member. We may use different terminology!

If you can’t find your answer or are not sure you understand it, ask in any way you are comfortable. Try to be brief-Think of the next new person reading this thread.

Tell us where you (or the person with the problem) are-City and State.

Tell us what equipment you are using-HDMI? -All makes and models, and include your video provider (i.e. Comcast, DirecTV)

Be patient-It may take a few days before the best qualified member to answer your question “picks up.”

THANK YOU!

Bob:)
Comcast-SA8300HD & SA4250HDC-SARA 1.89.22.2/1.61.5.108-PhilipsBRBurner (CyberLink Software)

So I'm coming off an older Dish Network DVR to the 8300 SARA TWC and is it just me or does it suck? No favorites list other than a rudimentary one, no commercial skip just fast forward, the season pass thing is a joke, and searching where in I can search by a single letter? Tell me there's a UI upgrade in the works, if not I'm going back to Dish even if I can't get the same pricing as I have with cable.

So I'm coming off an older Dish Network DVR to the 8300 SARA TWC and is it just me or does it suck? No favorites list other than a rudimentary one, no commercial skip just fast forward, the season pass thing is a joke, and searching where in I can search by a single letter? Tell me there's a UI upgrade in the works, if not I'm going back to Dish even if I can't get the same pricing as I have with cable.TWC has a replacement in the works called Navigator and there is a thread devoted to it. Notice I didn't call it an upgrade. :)

Fortunately, other cableco's, like Cox, have different plans for multiple IPGs. In any event, it would have been better if you had done some research before you switched. We could have saved you some frustration by letting you know what you were getting into, especially coming from Dish who AFAIK has an excellent HD DVR.

Yeah I didn't find this place until TWC left and I saw what I got stuck with for a DVR. But my other half is fully convinced that the crappiness is worth putting up with because TWC costs less per month. Quality over quantity is my personal theory. I saw the Navigator thread and read about all the lock-ups, audio quality issues, and HD recording problems. I'm really NOT looking forward to the day that gets pushed. So other than rolling my own DVR is there any hope for a better UI through TiVo or something similar?

So I'm coming off an older Dish Network DVR to the 8300 SARA TWC and is it just me or does it suck? No favorites list other than a rudimentary one, no commercial skip just fast forward, the season pass thing is a joke, and searching where in I can search by a single letter? Tell me there's a UI upgrade in the works, if not I'm going back to Dish even if I can't get the same pricing as I have with cable.Please explain why you think the season pass thing is a joke and how it is different than how the older Dish Network DVR season pass works. I agree with your other comments.

So other than rolling my own DVR is there any hope for a better UI through TiVo or something similar?I do not believe TWC has any plans to release the Tivo port that Tivo is doing for the SA DVR (the port for Moto units is already done). There is always the Tivo HD that uses cablecards, but that comes at a cost and I believe there is a thread for that too.

To be sure, many of us do just fine without the Tivo-like bells & whistles. I don't miss what I never had, so it's not a big deal for me. I understand I don't have things like commercial-skip and a decent search, but I get through commercials just fine with FF and don't use the DVR to search in the first place, I use TitanTV when I want to search. I also use TitanTV for Wishlists and Reminders that go beyond the 1 week IPG. There are always alternatives that work. The only question is do they work well enough for you until something better comes along.

Also, TWC will make Navigator better, but it sure is taking them a lot of time. :)

So other than rolling my own DVR is there any hope for a better UI through TiVo or something similar?Hold on - somethings comming!

TW is mostly expanding HD with the use of SDV (Switched Digital Video). The downside of SDV is that it doesn't work with typical CableCARD products (which are one-way). HOWEVER, a device called the Tuning Resolver has just been approved (availability not stated, but likely this fall) which will work with TiVo to bring in all those SDV channels.
"Tru2Way" is coming around the end of the year, which brings true interactivity to 3rd party devices (again, like TiVo).
So hang on (if you can).

So I'm coming off an older Dish Network DVR to the 8300 SARA TWC and is it just me or does it suck? No favorites list other than a rudimentary one, no commercial skip just fast forward, the season pass thing is a joke, and searching where in I can search by a single letter? Tell me there's a UI upgrade in the works, if not I'm going back to Dish even if I can't get the same pricing as I have with cable.

Well, Scientific Atlanta (Cisco) hasn't lost a patent infringement case in court to TIVO either.

Maybe you should have researched before switching. I've been think of switching to DISH because of it's superior, if plagiarized, DVR. But the SA8300 works pretty well for what I need even if it doesn't have some features that would be convenient.

Hold on - somethings comming!I don't see him complaining about the availability of HD channels, just the SARA interface. I haven't kept up with Navigator, but that doesn't seem like a short-term solution or what he's after. I don't know when TWC expects to go tru2way, but I don't foresee 3rd party stuff or Navigator improving a lot for several months. Do you know something we don't?

Don't get me wrong, I'm waiting until tru2way is "fully" implemented and I see what becomes available before I make any decision to switch. I'm expecting a decent HD IPG from Cox and don't expect to switch, but I won't rule it out as I head into retirement.

Maybe you should have researched before switching. I've been think of switching to DISH because of it's superior, if plagiarized, DVR. But the SA8300 works pretty well for what I need even if it doesn't have some features that would be convenient.I assume he had to make a decision to upgrade to their newer DVR or switch to cable. I also assume the cableco had a pretty good deal going that enticed him to swtich to save a few dollars.

As for research, many folks simply assume all DVRs are pretty much the same and have the same features. Certainly this should be the case in 2008, but clearly, as we know, it's not. 20-20 hindsight says he should have checked, but I can see why he didn't. :)

I don't see him complaining about the availability of HD channels, just the SARA interface.Well he would complain if he did have a TiVo, so the SDV thing would be the next issue if he went that way.
I haven't kept up with Navigator, but that doesn't seem like a short-term solution or what he's after. I don't know when TWC expects to go tru2way, but I don't foresee 3rd party stuff or Navigator improving a lot for several months. Do you know something we don't?No. The latest I heard (that I included in the post) was that the tuning resolver would probably be available in the fall (CableLabs just approved the prototypes from SA/Cisco and Motorola a couple of days ago), and the latest consumer availability of tru2way is for the Christmas market (of course the local cable system needs to implement tru2way as well). BTW, the reports latest version of Navigator in Kansas City sound like most of the major bugs have been resolved - even for external drives.

Well he would complain if he did have a TiVo, so the SDV thing would be the next issue if he went that way.
No. The latest I heard (that I included in the post) was that the tuning resolver would probably be available in the fall (CableLabs just approved the prototypes from SA/Cisco and Motorola a couple of days ago), and the latest consumer availability of tru2way is for the Christmas market (of course the local cable system needs to implement tru2way as well). BTW, the reports latest version of Navigator in Kansas City sound like most of the major bugs have been resolved - even for external drives.You're right about the Tivo and SDV, but I think that issue is pretty close to resolution with the CableLabs approval. I only mentioned the Tivo HD because he asked what alternatives there were and I wanted to stress the cost (whcih seems to have brought him to cable in the first place).

As for tru2way, we're expecting it to be implemented here this year and I'll be really happy to see some compatible stuff on retail shelves for Christmas, though I will not be a first-adopter this time around. :)

It's also good to hear Navigator is making progress. By the time I get to North Carolina next summer, my daughter might have it and I'll see it for myself. That could be good or bad. :)

I assume he had to make a decision to upgrade to their newer DVR or switch to cable. I also assume the cableco had a pretty good deal going that enticed him to swtich to save a few dollars.

As for research, many folks simply assume all DVRs are pretty much the same and have the same features. Certainly this should be the case in 2008, but clearly, as we know, it's not. 20-20 hindsight says he should have checked, but I can see why he didn't. :)


Indeed you're correct. I had a Dish DVR of the Tivo plagerized variety. However TWC did indeed have a price that dish couldn't and wouldn't meet. Unfortunately I only researched the box itself and not the interface it presents. I didn't run across the interface until the unit was already installed and live, had I had the chance to actually preview the interface in any way I would have turned it down. Normally I'm a very thorough consumer, and the hardware the box has is very good, however Sci Atl saw fit to overlay that hardware with an interface that is a far cry from being good. Functional, yes, good, no. However, I'm not the only one who pays the bills and the decision was made to wait out the two years with this box and see if Dish will then offer us new subscriber pricing or a switch to FIOS if it comes into the area. Unfortunately, we're now on this obsolete interface box for two years or until TWC sees fit to roll out something that hopefully won't be as much a screw up as Navigator. SARA is functional, not pretty, not really user friendly, and still awful in the ways I described in my previous posting. But, it's spilled milk now, which means I'm looking to a DIY DVR for my personal use and I'll let the 8300 become nothing more than a switching box.

TmTx,

If you go the DIY route, you probably end up losing the capability for recording 2 programs while watching a 3rd recorded program and IMHO that is a lot to give up.

At any rate, there are a lot of tips in the First Post here and a link to the User's Guide that may help some. Navigator, even if fixed, may or may not be much better. Like I said earlier, I don't know what TWC plans regarding tru2way and 3rd party boxes, but that is something to consider later this year or early next year, hopefully. All may not be lost and you may be pleasantly surprised by what becomes available, at least I'm hoping that becomes the case.

TmTx,

If you go the DIY route, you probably end up losing the capability for recording 2 programs while watching a 3rd recorded program and IMHO that is a lot to give up.

At any rate, there are a lot of tips in the First Post here and a link to the User's Guide that may help some. Navigator, even if fixed, may or may not be much better. Like I said earlier, I don't know what TWC plans regarding tru2way and 3rd party boxes, but that is something to consider later this year or early next year, hopefully. All may not be lost and you may be pleasantly surprised by what becomes available, at least I'm hoping that becomes the case.

DD, The DVR would be for my personal use, the other DVR would still be used for doubly timed events, however, rarely does my personal preference programming overlap. Meaning I could go the DVR route on my personal system and let the housemate use the DVR.

I'll cross my fingers that tru2way rolls out and surprises me in a good way. I'd hate to find out it will be more of the same but faster!

I'll cross my fingers that tru2way rolls out and surprises me in a good way. I'd hate to find out it will be more of the same but faster!That is for sure. I have high hopes for tru2way and hope I haven't been sold a bill of goods.

OK, my 8300HD decided to lock up on every other recorded show. Took it back to Comcasts, or course they didn't have any more 8300HDs, so I had to accept a 8300HDC. The manufacture date was 7/9/08. When I brought it home and booted it up, there was a flash on the screen about 2way or something. I'll dig around in the diagnostics menus and see if I can find out anything else.

It's a cablecard thing; I had to do a hard reboot while talking to a Comcast rep when I traded mine in and got a HDC. It worked (as good as a "C" does, anyway) after that.

I have a Pioneer 1018 AVR and a SA 8300DVR (Sara) and Samsung LNA40550 TV. Currently I have the DVR hooked to the Pioneer via HDMI 1.3a cable (monoprice). I also have the DVR connected directly to the TV via a 5 way octopus combo cable (3 component, 2 audio) also from monoprice. My goal is to able to watch the DVR through the component connection to the TV or through the DVI connection to the Pioneer. This will allow me to bypass the Pioneer AVR for casual TV watching (news) but still give me the option to watch through the Pioneer AVR / HDMI for more serious HDTV watching. Currently, I can only watch the DVR through HDMI / Pioneer. If I switch the TV from HDMI1 source to Component1 source, I only get a picture if the Pioneer AVR is turned on. And to make matters worse I get an aweful buzzing sound because the receiver is on.

Can the 8300 output from both DVI and component in this fashion (DVI to AVR and component to TV)? Does it need to have any special configuration?


thanks!

osudude:

If I recall correctly, component is disabled when HDMI is active (something to do with HDCP?) Someone else may correct me on this, though, so don't take my word for it.

osudude:

If I recall correctly, component is disabled when HDMI is active (something to do with HDCP?) Someone else may correct me on this, though, so don't take my word for it.
Technically I think it still works, but the HDMI connected device (AVR or HDTV) has to "play nice" by completely turning off the signal and many don't. It used to just work all the time until they "tightened up" to software on the 8300 with the last 1 or 2 updates. I think Dave Hancock still had a working dual-connection working at one time after the software updates. Since he's off playing with Navigator now, I'm not sure that's still the case.

In most cases though folks tend to get the HDCP error when they switch to Component and osudude doesn't appear to be getting that. I also don't recall anyone ever mentioning an audio buzz, so I'm not sure what's going on with this setup. In this case, I would temporarily disconnect the HDMI from the 8300 to make sure the Component part is working as it should. If it is, then I think you're SOL. I seem to remember some folks were able to purchase an HDMI switcher that completely turned off the signal over HDMI, but don't hold me to that.

I can use both component and HDMI on my SA8300HD from Cablevision. The HDMI runs throught my home theater switcher and it "plays nice". YMMV

I have a Pioneer 1018 AVR and a SA 8300DVR (Sara) and Samsung LNA40550 TV. Currently I have the DVR hooked to the Pioneer via HDMI 1.3a cable (monoprice). I also have the DVR connected directly to the TV via a 5 way octopus combo cable (3 component, 2 audio) also from monoprice. My goal is to able to watch the DVR through the component connection to the TV or through the DVI connection to the Pioneer. This will allow me to bypass the Pioneer AVR for casual TV watching (news) but still give me the option to watch through the Pioneer AVR / HDMI for more serious HDTV watching. Currently, I can only watch the DVR through HDMI / Pioneer. If I switch the TV from HDMI1 source to Component1 source, I only get a picture if the Pioneer AVR is turned on. And to make matters worse I get an aweful buzzing sound because the receiver is on.

Can the 8300 output from both DVI and component in this fashion (DVI to AVR and component to TV)? Does it need to have any special configuration?


thanks!I've got mine set up similarly. As long as my Integra 9.8 is turned off, the signal through component is fine. I used to be able to have the Integra on as long as it was switched to a different input and the component signal would still fly. Not any more. Now the Integra must be turned off. No biggie though for what I want it to do.

It's a cablecard thing; I had to do a hard reboot while talking to a Comcast rep when I traded mine in and got a HDC. It worked (as good as a "C" does, anyway) after that.

I force-formatted both drives, and it still did it. So, if it was a cablecard thing, then mine was in hardware!

I can't seem to be able to get into the setup wizard thing. I turn off the box and press GUIDE/Info and nothing happens. I've tried both pressing and holding for a while. Nothing.

I can't seem to be able to get into the setup wizard thing. I turn off the box and press GUIDE/Info and nothing happens. I've tried both pressing and holding for a while. Nothing.
My guess is you have TWC and are using Navigator, not SARA. In the First Post here there is a section on how to determine what software you have based on the A-B-C Buttons. Once you determine your software, you can then refer to the right thread.

I'm sure this has been asked and answered a thousand times in this thread, so I apologize for asking it again.

Is there a way to transfer the programs off of the DVR (both external and internal drive) and onto my PC? What is the best way to go about it?

Thanks!

I'm sure this has been asked and answered a thousand times in this thread, so I apologize for asking it again.

Is there a way to transfer the programs off of the DVR (both external and internal drive) and onto my PC? What is the best way to go about it?

Thanks!
The only way I know would be to use "Copy to VCR" on the SA8300, except copy to a dvd of course, then copy that dvd to your computer, using any number of methods.

Harold

The only way I know would be to use "Copy to VCR" on the SA8300, except copy to a dvd of course, then copy that dvd to your computer, using any number of methods.
That will only copy in SD, not HD, and that's the best you can do. There are at least 2 threads on recording to a PC, but there is no way to just copy HD recordings from the 8300 to a PC directly.

You could always use one of these as well: http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html. It will allow you to copy HD to you PC as well as SD.

has anyone come across an 8300HD dropping audio (specifically the dolby digital signal and the LFE) during a high impact scene? Mine drops out for a couple of seconds and then comes back on. Is there a fix for this? it happened multiple times from a recording (DVR) of Transformers from HBO. I am using Cablevision service in Long island.

Thanks in advance

That happens to me once in a rare while, but I think it's a problem with the source, not the 8300.

You could always use one of these as well: http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html. It will allow you to copy HD to you PC as well as SD.
Do you know for a fact if this $250 unit will let you "copy" a recording to your PC? The reason I ask is because the documentation says "records component video (YCrCb) from cable TV and satellite set top boxes, with a built-in IR blaster to automatically change TV channels for scheduled recordings". This leads me to believe it simply uses the 8300 as the tuner and does not let you "copy" anything that was recorded on the 8300 HDD. If he wants to get into using a PC as a DVR, there are several solutions, including the one in this link, but I don't know of any that let you copy the recordings from the HDD to the PC. However, I don't keep up with the latest technology in this area, so I could be wrong. Just don't want any misunderstanding of what this and other devices will do. :)

Do you know for a fact if this $250 unit will let you "copy" a recording to your PC? The reason I ask is because the documentation says "records component video (YCrCb) from cable TV and satellite set top boxes, with a built-in IR blaster to automatically change TV channels for scheduled recordings". This leads me to believe it simply uses the 8300 as the tuner and does not let you "copy" anything that was recorded on the 8300 HDD. If he wants to get into using a PC as a DVR, there are several solutions, including the one in this link, but I don't know of any that let you copy the recordings from the HDD to the PC. However, I don't keep up with the latest technology in this area, so I could be wrong. Just don't want any misunderstanding of what this and other devices will do. :)I would like to know this as well. By reading the specs, it sure appears that you can use it to copy recordings to a PC from an HD cable box in 720p or 1080i via the component video connections.

I would like to know this as well. By reading the specs, it sure appears that you can use it to copy recordings to a PC from an HD cable box in 720p or 1080i via the component video connections.
Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case. That's usually not how "scheduled recordings" with an IR blaster work. But, maybe you can select a recording for playback, pause it, schedule a recording for the playback channel, then hit Play when recording begins. It's certainly not clear from the documentation I checked and there was another caveat that said "most" cable and satellite tuners. I suspect one of the "recording to a pc" threads might have more info than this thread.

Do you know for a fact if this $250 unit will let you "copy" a recording to your PC? The reason I ask is because the documentation says "records component video (YCrCb) from cable TV and satellite set top boxes, with a built-in IR blaster to automatically change TV channels for scheduled recordings". This leads me to believe it simply uses the 8300 as the tuner and does not let you "copy" anything that was recorded on the 8300 HDD. If he wants to get into using a PC as a DVR, there are several solutions, including the one in this link, but I don't know of any that let you copy the recordings from the HDD to the PC. However, I don't keep up with the latest technology in this area, so I could be wrong. Just don't want any misunderstanding of what this and other devices will do. :)

You don't use this device with a DVR (such as the 8300) you use it with a standalone Cable tuner/box that has component outputs. This device works as the other half of the DVR (so to speak) and lets you record the content with your PC.

You don't use this device with a DVR (such as the 8300) you use it with a standalone Cable tuner/box that has component outputs. This device works as the other half of the DVR (so to speak) and lets you record the content with your PC.
But if you really wanted to archive a recording already on your DVR, you would presumably just play it back and feed it into the other box to be re-recorded. One problem is you'd have to disconnect your HDMI cable (if you're using it), since the 8300HD won't output over component when HDMI is connected.

But if you really wanted to archive a recording already on your DVR, you would presumably just play it back and feed it into the other box to be re-recorded. One problem is you'd have to disconnect your HDMI cable (if you're using it), since the 8300HD won't output over component when HDMI is connected.
I just finished looking through the Installation Guide. It does look like you can start viewing a recording on the 8300 and manually capture the recording through the Hauppauge device to your PC for later viewing on the PC or burning to DVD for viewing on a Blue-Ray player. This may already be well known in the other threads.

And as a side note, the 8300 doesn't specifically turn off Component just because HDMI is also being used. There are setups where the connected HDMI device (TV) properly turns off the HDMI signal when the device is turned off. This allows viewing over Component even though the HDMI is still connected. There are also HDMI switchers that do that same thing. It is generally true that Component and HDMI are not "active" at the same time.

But if you really wanted to archive a recording already on your DVR, you would presumably just play it back and feed it into the other box to be re-recorded.

Right

One problem is you'd have to disconnect your HDMI cable (if you're using it), since the 8300HD won't output over component when HDMI is connected.

In the case of one of our two 8300's the HDMI has never worked. Someday I'll take it in to get it replaced, but I'm afraid of what I might get in return. Maybe I should just get a HD tuner and hook it up to of these boxes instead.

In the case of one of our two 8300's the HDMI has never worked. Someday I'll take it in to get it replaced, but I'm afraid of what I might get in return.
The HDMI output on one of my two boxes went bad after I removed and reinserted the cable a few times (but it was already out of warranty because I didn't have an HDMI display to test it when I originally bought it).

Turned out it was simply the HDMI connector pulling away from the PCB. It is surface mounted and very fragile. I opened up the box and can see the pins that need resoldering, and may try and fix it myself, but you can get someone to fix that kind of problem fairly cheaply (if that's all it is).

But the component picture is basically as good as HDMI anyway (just a tiny bit of extra noise maybe), and there are no stupid HDMI handshake issues to deal with.

PLEASE,

We are here to help. And we need your cooperation to be at our best.

Read the first post-Most answers are there! At least the simple ones. We believe our first post is unique among all threads in the amount of information it contains and in it’s easy readability!

Read the last two pages-The most recently discussed problems are there. They are also the most recently developing problems. Do not read every page, that will only drive you crazy. Older pages likely contain outdated information.

An efficient search will help. Try to use just one highly significant word. For tips on searching or any general questions, please PM me or the ID of a frequent poster, or a high post count, or any member. We may use different terminology!

If you can’t find your answer or are not sure you understand it, ask in any way you are comfortable. Try to be brief-Think of the next new person reading this thread.

Tell us where you (or the person with the problem) are-City and State.

Tell us what equipment you are using-HDMI? -All makes and models, and include your video provider (i.e. Comcast, DirecTV)

Be patient-It may take a few days before the best qualified member to answer your question “picks up.”

THANK YOU!

Bob:)
Comcast-SA8300HD & SA4250HDC-SARA 1.89.22.2/1.61.5.108-PhilipsBRBurner (CyberLink Software)

Cox-Phoenix recently received SARA 1.89.27.1 and a few problems have popped up, mainly for those using HDMI connections. So far we have:

1. "trick play" functions (Pause, FF, Rew) do not work for "live" content until the channel is changed after powering on. This is not the same as the Passport problems that arise when using an external drive. Some users have external drives and some don't, but they all use HDMI. Those of us using Component have no problems and sometimes it takes more than 1 channel change to get the functions back.

2. With 1080i disabled using Auto-HDMI with a 720p DLP, the 8300 appears to be outputting 1080i, not 720p as it should. The workarounds are to switch to Fixed with just 720p enabled or switch to Upconvert2.

Anyone else with 1.89.27.1 having these kinds of problems with HDMI?

I have a SA8300HD on Cox in San Diego running SARA 1.89.22.2 and lately since the extra Olympics coverage started, I've been getting a lot of overflows on the pure HD channels (NBC, ESPN etc) which has given me stuttering and stippled picture. SNR seems pretty strong (>35dB), and none of the other diagnostics seem out of whack. The SD stuff seems to work ok, but many of the SD recordings are skipping and pausing, even when a HD channel is not tuned. Also, when pausing a live SD show, the ensuing playback pauses and skips until the live tv is resumed.

I've tried defragging (which helped a bit), hard and soft reboots, and just did a reformat. Hopefully the reformat will help with the stuttering, and the poor HD picture will go away when the Olympic channels go away, but the poor recording performance makes me think there is a bad disk.
I've had this unit over 1.5 years, and the previous one was replaced for a similar reason.

Can anyone suggest some diagnostics or whatever that I may be overlooking.

Hi Guys, I just added an external HDD(WD My DVR Eaxpander) to my 8300HD from Cablevision in NJ. I cut the power and when the box came back on all I get is static and oicture cut out on the HD channels. SD channels are all fine. I am connected by HDMI to my Onkyo receiver and then to my Samsung LNT-4661. I disconnected the external drive but the same situation, no hd channels. Pls help!

Hi Guys, I just added an external HDD(WD My DVR Eaxpander) to my 8300HD from Cablevision in NJ. I cut the power and when the box came back on all I get is static and oicture cut out on the HD channels. SD channels are all fine. I am connected by HDMI to my Onkyo receiver and then to my Samsung LNT-4661. I disconnected the external drive but the same situation, no hd channels. Pls help!

Hey, got it fixed. Manually turned on TV, then a/v reciever, then cable box. Now it works perfectly again.

Hey, got it fixed. Manually turned on TV, then a/v reciever, then cable box. Now it works perfectly again.
Things have to be on before the cablebox when using HDMI in order for the HDCP handshake to be successful. If your receiver is like my Denon, it's fairly slow to come on and your HDCP handshake can't properly complete in time. Usually you get some kind of HDCP error though.

Things have to be on before the cabelbox when using HDMI in order for the HDCP handshake to be successful. If your receiver is like my Denon, it's fairly slow to come on and your HDCP handshake can't properly complete in time. Usually you get some kind of HDCP error though.
Some (maybe even most?) devices will handshake eventually, regardless of the order you turn them on. I have two 8300HDs which I connect to various devices (sometimes through a Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver), and the handshake never fails regardless of the order, it just takes takes up to 10 seconds.

But for some combination of devices, order does matter. HDMI has failed the consumer in many ways, from badly designed connectors to frequent handshake issues.

Some (maybe even most?) devices will handshake eventually, regardless of the order you turn them on. I have two 8300HDs which I connect to various devices (sometimes through a Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver), and the handshake never fails regardless of the order, it just takes takes up to 10 seconds.

But for some combination of devices, order does matter. HDMI has failed the consumer in many ways, from badly designed connectors to frequent handshake issues.
I think it's just one of those loose standards that's taken manufacturers time to get used to and increase compatibility. I know some of the changes in the last 2-3 SARA updates dealt with HDMI issues and I guess it's more stable now than it's been. But, it sure hasn't lived up to expectations.

Cox-Phoenix recently received SARA 1.89.27.1 and a few problems have popped up, mainly for those using HDMI connections. So far we have:

1. "trick play" functions (Pause, FF, Rew) do not work for "live" content until the channel is changed after powering on. This is not the same as the Passport problems that arise when using an external drive. Some users have external drives and some don't, but they all use HDMI. Those of us using Component have no problems and sometimes it takes more than 1 channel change to get the functions back.

2. With 1080i disabled using Auto-HDMI with a 720p DLP, the 8300 appears to be outputting 1080i, not 720p as it should. The workarounds are to switch to Fixed with just 720p enabled or switch to Upconvert2.

Anyone else with 1.89.27.1 having these kinds of problems with HDMI?Yes, we're using HDMI, and after receiving 1.89.27.1 it took me a while to notice it, but at least on occasion the "trick play" functions would not work until after I had switched channels. Luckily I had seen hints on the AVS boards (or somewhere) and knew what to try. I have set our 8300HD to start up on a channel we never watch, and for now I think we can live with that.

A more annoying problem with 1.89.27.1 was the delay we were seeing when switching channels: maybe something like three seconds. After I changed the option from "Auto DVI/HDMI" to "Fixed", the problem went away.

Off-topic: We're enjoying Cox's On Demand more than I had expected; there's actually some HD content there that's worth watching, plus some SD material that's OK when "there's nothing on" live.

Off-topic: We're enjoying Cox's On Demand more than I had expected; there's actually some HD content there that's worth watching, plus some SD material that's OK when "there's nothing on" live.
I wish I could say the same. So far I've only watched a few Olympics highlights. Most of the other stuff is either something I've already seen or something I have no interest in. It did let me delete some recordings for my granddaughter that she can now view on VOD. It'd be nice though to get a list of things people find interesting in case I simply missed them. I still find the menu slow.

What new features were introduced with SARA 1.89.27.1?

I haven't seen anything new Russ.

hey guys

This morning before I left for work I decided to unplug my box and plug it back in for a reboot. It is now many hours later and it just keeps going through the process it seems. It keeps saying boot on my box and will stop only to say boot again. This keeps going on and on

whats the deal? I have another box that boots right up after you unplug it and plug it back in

nobody?? the thing has literally been rebooting for hours

nobody?? the thing has literally been rebooting for hours
Well, the only time that happened to me was when cable went out for some time and it couldn't reboot. But even then it didn't display Boot that long.

If it were me, I'd double check the cable connections, maybe even connect the cable directly to the TV to make sure there is a signal. Then I'd do a hard reboot where you press/hold the Power button while plugging the power cord back in.

If that doesn't work, I'd completely disconnect it (cable and power) over night and then connect it back up in the morning.

If still nothing, I'd try where the other unit seems to work. Still no go, I guess I'd get a new unit.

I noticed my SARA version is now 1.91.14.a100. I checked because I
have the following audio issues. I have CV's service and my 8300HD is connected to my TV via HDMI, with coax connection to my receiver.

1) I don't get audio on power up 50% of the time.
It doesn't make a difference which unit I turn on first. If I change
the channel which also changes the resolution it synchs and I get
audio. Or if I turn the TV off and on again it will synch most
times, but occasionally I'll have to do it twice.

2) Audio only outputs through the digital out if the TV is on.
If I turn the TV off the audio from the 8300HD stops outputting.
When I turn the TV back on it resumes the audio output to the
receiver. This is not good because I don't want to run my TV when
just listening to the digital music channels. Changing the "Audio:
Digital Out" setting makes no difference.

I did not have these issues with the previous SARA version. Does
anyone else notice these problems with SARA 1.91.14.a100?

What were the changes / bug fixes included with this version?

I had a disk failure on my e-sata external drive on the 8300HD. It is a western digital 500g, still on warranty. I got a replacement drive.
When I try to install it with the regular procedure, It goes into formating for about 15 sec. The amount of available space is not increased.
Any suggestion?

I did a hard boot and all OK.

Im having a volume control issue with the 8300 remote and my Samsung 650 series TV. When I adjust volume, the volume changes but only one click at a time, meaning I cant hold it down and have it "stream" up or down. Any thoughts. Thanks

-The Samsung remote works fine.
-8300 remote worked fine with my old CRT Samsung TV

Try a different Samsung TV code. If you are on another system, check with them. For the Universal DVR remote, Samsung's possible codes are: 0060, 0702, 0030, 0178, 1060, 0812, 0056, 0019. Here's the link for Cox's remote instructions:

http://www.cox.com/support/sandiego/cable/remotes.asp

Thanks, I reviewed that before posting. I also tried many of the codes, one of the codes you posted worked - 0702. Much appreciated.

Here's one problem I hope someone can help with. I have a "new to me" SA 8300HD. After setting it up, I was getting macroblocking badly on the HD channels, and to a lesser extent on the SD channels. Tech paid a visit to the house, checked everything out. We discovered a piece of RG59 in the path, and he informed me that would cause a signal level problem - makes sense. We couldn't get clear access to the piece of cable, so he left, informing me we'd have to get an electrician in to fish a direct piece of cable to the room where the setup is.

Well, I was able to fish through a brand new single piece of RG6 from the service entrance right to the STB. Lo and behold, the problem still remained. Signal levels were good when compared to the figures at the beginning of the thread. Only diagnostic page that looked out of sorts was page 15/39, QAM Channel Status, which had sometimes red/sometimes amber entries on Chan 5.

Last night, I carried out the "Hard Reboot" and "Last resort reformat" procedures, problem still persists. This afternoon, I checked, and all the channels (including HD) were perfect. Unfortunately, the PVR function would not work - when I pressed the "List" button, it came up an reported "Disk trouble - unrecoverable write error", and I could not select shows to record.

I carried out a "Last resort format" (again) as described in the first post of the thread, and I have regained my PVR function. Unfortunately, the macroblocking is now back with a vengeance.

Can I safely rule out a signal level problem, and conclude there's a problem with the STB? Any quick fixes I can carry out short of exchanging it - which will probably be a few days at the very least?

Thanks.

Have TWC Oceanic with SA 8300HDC Sara, trying to access diagnostics screen. Have tried all the sequences in other threads but mostly from Navigator users. Could I get the correct access sequence for this box from a SARA user. Thanks!

Have TWC Oceanic with SA 8300HDC Sara, trying to access diagnostics screen. Have tried all the sequences in other threads but mostly from Navigator users. Could I get the correct access sequence for this box from a SARA user. Thanks!
They are in the First Post.

Thanks DoubleDAZ - worked great!

My SARA version is 1.90.5.111 Dated 3/7/08

8300HDC. Anyone have a later versino?

Can I safely rule out a signal level problem, and conclude there's a problem with the STB? Any quick fixes I can carry out short of exchanging it - which will probably be a few days at the very least?

Thanks.

Sigh...

Did the tech even put the box into diags mode? I would guess not...

Check the first post on how to get into diags mode, tune to a channel that is macro-blocking and report your levels and SNR (may be called S/N can't remember).

Sounds like a bad drive, but lets check your levels too. At least here you can bring the box in yourself and exchange it and they are open on Saturdays - must less of a hassle.

xnappo

I swear, I am getting so @#$% sick and tired of this stupid DVR. I have continual problems, despite hard reboots, leaving it unplugged overnight, etc. - you know, following the suggestions on this thread.

Specifically, the stupid thing with some frequency doesn't record scheduled recordings. Drives me nuts! There's no rhyme or reason I can discern as to when it decides to do what it's programmed to do and when it decides to not record a program. Sometimes the missed recording shows up on the list of scheduled recordings, sometimes not.

And then there's the lovely blank recordings. I got one yesterday - the Washington /Cal game. I started trying to watch it an hour and a half delayed (i.e. while still recording) and nothing. I tried everything. I even stopped the recording, set up a manual recording to pick up where the first one left off - and could access neither recording!

I'm really frustrated with this. I've got 80% of a 750GB SATA drive filled with programs I've been following for months - more than 300 recordings, and I can't stand the thought of losing all that.

I swear, SARA must have been setup by the same morons that work at Microsoft, because it's one sorry operating system. Back when I had TiVo instead of my 8340HD, I never *EVER* had ANY of these stupid, ridiculous issues - not even once in a couple of years of using it. TiVo is so superior it's not even fair to put them in the same class.


Anyhow, enough ranting. Other than taking my chances with another box and losing all my recordings, anybody got any brilliant suggestions? Or some not so brilliant ones? ;)

Thanks.


OH - I'm running SARA 1.90.5.113 - or I was up until last night's hard reboot. Haven't checked this morning.

anybody got any brilliant suggestions? Or some not so brilliant ones? ;)
Well, you're running up against just about every negative there is. You are using cablecard which is problematic. You are using a 750G drive which can also be problematic. You appear to be using SATA as a quasi-archive system which is probably going to result in the loss of everything.

SATA specs leave a lot to be desired and there are a number of setups that simply don't work well. You can blame SARA, or SATA, or the 8240, or whatever, but it looks to me like you've put together a system that does not work all that well together. You can certainly try a different unit, but success will probably still be iffy with your equipment. There are quite a few setups that do work (check the SATA thread), so it's not just SARA.

Of course, you can always buy a Tivo HD and get your beloved Tivo back. :)

I am cross posting this so that maybe I can get some help. Thanks.

Maybe someone can help me out.....I've got an 8300HD dvr (Cablevision) and ~3 months ago hooked up a cavalry 500mb esata external drive (Costco had it cheap)....has been working great! This week Cablevision sent out some sort of update (woke up to a rebooted box, not powered on - I always keep my box turned on), and the external drive is now not being recognized. I think I've tried everything....rebooted cable box with the drive still connected; unplugged cable box, disconnected external drive, rebooted again w/o external drive; then tried to reconnect from scratch.
For some reason, the external hard drive just is not being recognized by the cable box!!! Any suggestions?!?!

Well, you're running up against just about every negative there is.
Umm...

I am running exactly ONE thing that isn't "out of the box", and that's the SATA drive. Other than that, I'm running what Cox gave me. (And the SATA combo is a recommended combo - an Antec MX-1 eSATA External Enclosure with the Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive .) Oh - and the DVR is a SA 8240HDC. I think I reported it wrong previously...

As for running an "archive" - not so much. I just like watching the shows in order and having as many as I want lined up and ready to go. Plus I've got tons of room for multiple HD football games (not to mention hour upon hour upon hour of Olympics).


FWIW, I had these problems prior to installation of the SATA drive also. The problems seem to occur in batches - i.e., I'll go weeks with little to no problems, and then WHAMO - the whole thing goes berserk for no apparent reason, with yesterday being a prime example.

Umm...

FWIW, I had these problems prior to installation of the SATA drive also. The problems seem to occur in batches - i.e., I'll go weeks with little to no problems, and then WHAMO - the whole thing goes berserk for no apparent reason, with yesterday being a prime example.

Have you checked your signal to noise ratio in the diags? Page 5. See first post for instructions to enter diags.

xnappo

I am running exactly ONE thing that isn't "out of the box", and that's the SATA drive. Other than that, I'm running what Cox gave me.
I understand that. My point was that cablecards can be problematic with or without anything else, as can SATA combo's, even the ones that come recommended in xnappo's databases. FWIW, Cox and other cableco's generally don't support SATA for these very reasons. Anyway, I see xnappo suggested you check your levels and that is good advice, especially since your problems tend to go in "batches" and had the problems before SATA.

Like I said, there is a SATA thread that may be able to offer more advice. I haven't been keeping up with that thread, so I don't know what the latest problems are. It could just be the latest version of SARA introducing problems (the cablecard version is different from what those of us without cablecards use), but I don't think that's the case. Hopefully we won't have to deal with SARA that much longer, but then there is no guarantee that the next software package will support SATA any better.

Does anyone know, if I have an external hard drive that uses USB, can I just get a USB to ESata converter and use it on the Sci Atl 8300HD?

can this unit have separate output selection (not simultaneously) ?

i have my stb running to my receiver via component but i also want to run it to the tv via hdmi without having to turn on the receiver is that possible.

The HDMI - Component output seems to vary with place, version, attached HDMI [sink].

EL Paso, TX - TWC - SARA 1.89.17.1 - SA 8300 - Panasonic PT-AX200U:
PJ on = No component output.
PJ off / HDMI connected = Component output functions.

Some other variants of [place] [software / version] [local head-end setting] or [HDMI sink] may either allow simultaneous HDMI & Component, or require disconnecting the HDMI cable (or potentially HDMI disconnection and rebooting the box).

So, HDMI to the TV should work fine (as fine as HDMI can work). The risk is still getting the Component to the receiver without manually unplugging the HDMI cable.

Presumably, you are sending audio to the receiver with optical or digital coax. I do not have an HDMI [sink] with audio capability. There may be some setting change you need to make for the audio especially if the TV informs the STB to only send stereo.


v/r,
C-F

The HDMI - Component output seems to vary with place, version, attached HDMI [sink].

EL Paso, TX - TWC - SARA 1.89.17.1 - SA 8300 - Panasonic PT-AX200U:
PJ on = No component output.
PJ off / HDMI connected = Component output functions.

Some other variants of [place] [software / version] [local head-end setting] or [HDMI sink] may either allow simultaneous HDMI & Component, or require disconnecting the HDMI cable (or potentially HDMI disconnection and rebooting the box).

So, HDMI to the TV should work fine (as fine as HDMI can work). The risk is still getting the Component to the receiver without manually unplugging the HDMI cable.

Presumably, you are sending audio to the receiver with optical or digital coax. I do not have an HDMI [sink] with audio capability. There may be some setting change you need to make for the audio especially if the TV informs the STB to only send stereo.


v/r,
C-F

currently the stb which is TWC 8300HDC i believe.
the unit with both component analog and HDMI hooked only uses the hdmi as a default.

id like the ability to swtich without having to disconnect, mainly because sometimes i think its not necessary to have receiver on to watch tv.

the other thing is the 8300HDC does NOT pass anything more than 1080i so using HDMI is slightly overkill IMO. plus the receiver i have upconverts all analog to HDMI 1080p so if use the hdmi from the box to the receiver it does not upconvert.

currently the box goes to the receiver with component and an optical audio.

I have followed this thread for the last few days. I have not read every post but I have read the majority. I have a few questions on expanding my 8300HD.
By the way my 8300 is running SARA 1.89.22.2.

1. Would a dvr expander be more compatible then a hdd and enclosure setup?
2. Will expanding storage more than 500gb cause compatibility issues with 8300?

Thanx in advance.

my current QAM / RF tuner reads -12dbmv (yellow) is that bad ?

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11900 (shown here as 9 )

I have followed this thread for the last few days. I have not read every post but I have read the majority. I have a few questions on expanding my 8300HD.
By the way my 8300 is running SARA 1.89.22.2.

1. Would a dvr expander be more compatible then a hdd and enclosure setup?
2. Will expanding storage more than 500gb cause compatibility issues with 8300?

Thanx in advance.
While some here might offer their comments, you'd be a lot better off going to the SATA thread where the experts reside.

my current QAM / RF tuner reads -12dbmv (yellow) is that bad ?

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11900 (shown here as 9 )
Well, it is outside the accepted range of between +10 and -10, but the main test is whether or not you are having any problems with audio/video breakups, bad recordings, etc. At one time I had levels in the -14 to -16 range with no problems for awhile. Eventually though I had to change my connections to eliminate one splitter and my levels are now around -2 to -5. What kind of problems are you having?

Well, it is outside the accepted range of between +10 and -10, but the main test is whether or not you are having any problems with audio/video breakups, bad recordings, etc. At one time I had levels in the -14 to -16 range with no problems for awhile. Eventually though I had to change my connections to eliminate one splitter and my levels are now around -2 to -5. What kind of problems are you having?

some flickering on my main tv where the stb is .
i have a 4 port in the basement.. should i get an amp?

some flickering on my main tv where the stb is .
i have a 4 port in the basement.. should i get an amp?
Sorry, but I'm not qualified to recommend an amp. My opinion is that one should not need an amp, but if for some reason one does, it should be provided/installed by the cableco. IMHO, it's not the user's responsibility to get a good signal unless you did the install in the basement yourself. Even if that's the case though, the cableco should be able to fix the signal. I have a 4-port split in the box outside and don't have any problem with the levels unless I monkey around myself by adding too many inside splitters, etc. I'm sure someone else can comment further on the advisability of an amp.

Sorry, but I'm not qualified to recommend an amp. My opinion is that one should not need an amp, but if for some reason one does, it should be provided/installed by the cableco. IMHO, it's not the user's responsibility to get a good signal unless you did the install in the basement yourself. Even if that's the case though, the cableco should be able to fix the signal. I have a 4-port split in the box outside and don't have any problem with the levels unless I monkey around myself by adding too many inside splitters, etc. I'm sure someone else can comment further on the advisability of an amp.

the fdc is -3
and the rdc 50

some flickering on my main tv where the stb is .
i have a 4 port in the basement.. should i get an amp?

I had the same problem with my SA8300... flickering even on the guide menu.... a simple reboot (unplug for a few min) and the problem went away...

Give it a try.

Don

While some here might offer their comments, you'd be a lot better off going to the SATA thread where the experts reside.

Will do. Thank you.